Russian military received the first long-range unmanned complex


The Russian army received the first three UAV "Orion". This unmanned complex was created by the efforts of the Kronstadt group of companies.


He told the news agency about this. TASS General Designer of the development team Nikolai Dolzhenkov.

The main feature of the new aircraft is the long duration of flights. Its maximum take-off weight is 1000 kilograms. The UAV is able to remain in the air with a maximum load of up to 24 hours. Its “ceiling” is located at an altitude of 7,5 thousand meters. The maximum payload of the drone is 200 kilograms. The combat load of Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms. In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board.

Nikolai Dolzhenkov emphasized that for the first time the Russian military receives an unmanned aerial vehicle of this dimension.

Military acceptance checked the drone's configuration and conducted flight tests. They took place in Syria. After test flights, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation had additional wishes that were not originally included in the technical task. Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

The creation of Orion drones has been held since 2011 as part of the Pacer project.
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  1. KVU-NSVD April 21 2020 10: 08 New
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    Finally, it was even inconvenient somehow to work with this class of vehicles from one of the leading aircraft manufacturing countries.
    1. allegro April 21 2020 10: 27 New
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      we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not
      1. KVU-NSVD April 21 2020 10: 31 New
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        Quote: alegro
        we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

        We build and develop airplanes, in many aspects, moreover, advanced ones, and are not an aircraft building power? You do not feel any logical dissonance in your statement?
        1. rich April 21 2020 10: 50 New
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          long-range unmanned complex "Orion"

          1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 12: 17 New
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            Quote: Rich
            long-range unmanned complex "Orion"


            Does your work range not bother you?
            Long-range - no more than 300km.
            What does this mean?
            The fact that the most important parameter in the form of a "secure satellite communication channel" is not and is not planned ...
            There is no narrow secure channel, which means there is no security from control interception - there is not and never will be.
            1. Genry April 21 2020 13: 03 New
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              Quote: SovAr238A
              Long-range - no more than 300km.
              What does this mean?
              The fact that the most important parameter in the form of a "secure satellite communication channel" is not and is not planned ...
              There is no narrow secure channel, which means there is no security from control interception - there is not and never will be.

              What is the relationship between the range and the closed (encrypted) communication / control channel.
              It is known that a flying repeater is cheaper than a satellite ....
              And what kind of "narrow secure channel" did you come up with?
              1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 15: 44 New
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                Quote: Genry

                And what kind of "narrow secure channel" did you come up with?


                What is a secure data channel that uses a narrow beam antenna for two-way data transmission with a satellite?
                1. Tavrik April 22 2020 00: 41 New
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                  In general, the adjectives “narrow” and “wide” are usually used as slang to indicate channel capacity. In terms of antenna patterns, they often say “circular” or “directional”.
              2. Tavrik April 22 2020 00: 46 New
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                For a flying repeater, two more crews must be involved (for shift work), in addition, with a repeater, their range increases by only 50 km. Most likely because the antennas on the sides are non-directional, in contrast to the "ground".
            2. slipped April 21 2020 13: 09 New
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              Quote: SovAr238A
              Does your work range not bother you?


              And the name "Orion-E" does not bother you laughing
              1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 16: 00 New
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                Quote: slipped
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Does your work range not bother you?


                And the name "Orion-E" does not bother you laughing


                No.
                All these long-term attempts to underestimate the characteristics of "E" export models is complete rubbish.
                For not a single buyer who wants to buy for their hard-earned millions of dollars is the obviously worst product, subject to enormous competition in the market ...
                And the competition in this market is huge.
                And the Turks and Chinese and Israel and many others.
                1. slipped April 21 2020 18: 07 New
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                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  All these long-term attempts to underestimate the characteristics of "E" export models is complete rubbish.


                  Well, well, if you think so, we’re better laughing
                2. Voyager April 21 2020 18: 51 New
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                  That is, heavily cut export options for Caliber and hundreds of other items - a lie?
                  1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 21: 45 New
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                    Quote: Voyager
                    That is, heavily cut export options for Caliber and hundreds of other items - a lie?


                    And please tell me which "heavily cut export options for Caliber" do you know?
                    Let's sort through the points ...
                    1. Voyager April 21 2020 23: 48 New
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                      Yes please. 3M-54E, 3M-54E1, 3M-14E, 91RE1, 91RTE2 - all these are modifications of Caliber in export version. They are Club in different guises. One of the main parameters - range - is cut artificially and in different versions ranges from 40-50 to 200-300 km.
                      Let me remind you, such products performed for the RF Armed Forces have many times greater range.
                      1. SovAr238A April 22 2020 07: 36 New
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                        Quote: Voyager
                        М-54Э, 3М-54Э1, 3М-14Э

                        You really do not see the difference between the anti-ship versions of the Caliber missile and its tactical options?
                        Not a single tactical option was sold abroad.

                        And besides, Russia, like all other technological countries of the world, does not have the right to sell missile weapons with a flight range of more than 300 km.
                        These are world laws, not the E version ...
                        So do not replace the concept.

                        Versions "E" - have aircraft, radar, air defense systems, etc.
            3. The Word of the Word April 23 2020 09: 53 New
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              This is TTX export version. What will be the performance characteristics, functionality and a set of on-board equipment of a serial sample so far no one knows.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. AnderS April 22 2020 18: 55 New
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          leading aircraft manufacturing countries.

          leading an aircraft building power we were in the recent past

          Don't see the absurdity in your own statement?
          A person objects not to the fact that we are building planes, but to the fact that we are a leading power ...
      2. bistrov. April 21 2020 11: 17 New
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        Quote: alegro
        we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

        Nonsense. Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers. We can talk about a certain decrease in the level, which is quite natural after the general decline caused by the collapse of the USSR. By the way, a drop in the level occurred in all other aircraft building states. Now, apparently, the gap is successfully being overcome ..
        1. Threaded screw April 21 2020 11: 32 New
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          Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers.
          And the only one with a full production cycle from ore mining to software.
          1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 28 New
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            Quote: Threaded Screw
            Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers.
            And the only one with a full production cycle from ore mining to software.


            And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?
            Thousands of Boeings with Airbus are already being purchased.

            And if earlier the sale of one military aircraft was equal to the sale of 10 civilians in value.
            Now civilians are starting to cost as much as the military.
            Only the military needs 12-50 pieces.
            A civilian 200-500 ...
            1. Threaded screw April 23 2020 13: 58 New
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              And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?
              Sir, there is a huge difference between the market and the security of the fatherland.
              1. SovAr238A April 23 2020 22: 03 New
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                Quote: Threaded Screw
                And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?
                Sir, there is a huge difference between the market and the security of the fatherland.


                An economically developed country can afford an order of magnitude stronger army than an economically backward country.
                Anyone who does not understand this - dies in the first attack with drafts. against tanks ...
                1. Threaded screw April 24 2020 09: 24 New
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                  Anyone who does not understand this - dies in the first attack

                  Do you want to say this with your opus?
      3. bzbo April 21 2020 11: 37 New
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        https://rg.ru/2020/04/20/panciri-uspeshno-ohotiatsia-na-tureckie-udarnye-bespilotniki-v-livii.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
      4. fruit_cake April 22 2020 21: 52 New
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        who are "we"? Ukrainians except
      5. Viktor Sergeev April 23 2020 09: 04 New
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        We are one of the leading. It is clear that the United States is ahead of the rest, both in terms of money and the imposition of its technology. But it’s not yet evening, we must strive to occupy our niche and, in the event of a US collapse, fight for our pie.
    2. Peter is not the first April 21 2020 14: 50 New
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      Most recently, we congratulated Iran on the first delivery by the military of three strike drones, and now our Defense Ministry has received the first delivery from our industry. With an initiative !!!
    3. Mister X April 22 2020 20: 17 New
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      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      and it’s even inconvenient to somehow manage with this class of devices from one of the leading aircraft manufacturing countries

      hi
      Found a video on the topic.
  2. Mitroha April 21 2020 10: 08 New
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    The Russian army received the first three UAV "Orion" ....

    Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

    So received after revision or received and handed back for revision? Can news be specified?
    1. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 10: 13 New
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      The Russian Ministry of Defense has new requirements, so the creators of the Orion UAV will further refine it.
      The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed the acceptance certificate of the first unmanned long-range Orion complex. The complex consists of three devices.


      - The customer has additional wishes that initially were not. Therefore, we will take the complex back and modify it, ”Dolzhenkov explained.
      UAV "Orion" - medium-altitude unmanned aerial system of long flight duration and carrying capacity. Take-off weight of 1000 kilograms, payload mass of 200 kg. The drone can fly 24 hours at an average speed of 200 km / h. The Orion is driven by a pusher propeller, which is rotated by a 114-horsepower Austrian Turbax turbocharged engine to increase altitude. The practical ceiling of the drone is seven kilometers.
      The drone is supposed to be used for aerial reconnaissance, patrolling the area, target designation and adjustment of fire, topographic survey of the area. In addition to a digital camera and a set of sensors, Orion is equipped with an X-band radar.

      https://rg.ru/2020/04/20/reg-szfo/armiia-rossii-poluchila-pervyj-dalnij-bespilotnik.html
      1. Mitroha April 21 2020 10: 19 New
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        Austrian Rotax Turbo Engine

        Do we all play "partners"?
        For almost ten years, the UAV has been worn out and, as a result, with an imported engine. What were you doing for ten years then? Have you installed the engine from different sides or something?
        That is, you can’t count on mass production, the Austrians will be “advised” to stop selling engines to us in an instant
        1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 10: 22 New
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          This is a commercial product. There is no alternative. If you wait for your own, then the whole program will slow down. If you did not begin to build a plant for such reciprocating engines (and of different power), then I would have shot someone in the square.
          1. Altona April 21 2020 11: 18 New
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            Quote: Zaurbek
            This is a commercial product. There is no alternative. If you wait for your own, then the whole program will slow down. If you did not begin to build a plant for such reciprocating engines (and of different power), then I would have shot someone in the square.

            ------------------------
            You have a good comment. This product is commercial, which means that any modification requires decent money. About the construction of factories. If you build a plant, you need to find a market for these engines. This is also an expensive event. That’s what is called a рыно market ’decided’. Within the framework of the planned economy, the initial versions of the UAV would be transferred to agricultural aviation and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and the plant for the production of engines would also not be left without orders. The engines would go into the national economy on various techniques. R&D would be carried out by state research institutes, and not the laboratory of the enterprise itself. I mean, the cost of production and development would be lower, and implementation is faster thanks to the plan. Costs because it could be made up from various sources.
            1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 26 New
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              If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all. You take the desired dimension and set. Almost the entire line of UAVs in Americans (maybe, except for STELS) is built on the basis of commercial root, electric, and theater of military operations and turbojet engines.
              1. Altona April 21 2020 11: 29 New
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                Quote: Zaurbek
                If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all.

                -----------------------------------------
                How to understand "turnover is not regulated"? I mean no one is tracking the end consumer?
                1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 31 New
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                  Monitors, but does not require permission from the State Services ....
                  1. Altona April 21 2020 11: 32 New
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                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    Monitors, but does not require permission from the State Services ....

                    ---------------------
                    I commented a little differently. In our conditions, industrial projects are not very profitable, I mean that. And the market is a bit narrow.
                    1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 36 New
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                      So you need to design a line of machines (dimension, type of engine) correctly, with the maximum use of one engine. And use it somewhere else. The question is not simple, but the situation is different from the business project.
                      1. Altona April 21 2020 11: 39 New
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                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        So you need to design a line of machines (dimension, type of engine) correctly, with the maximum use of one engine. And use it somewhere else. The question is not simple, but the situation is different from the business project.

                        ----------------------
                        So I talked about this, only in a planned economy, sales would be guaranteed, but here we need a marketing strategy, advertising is again a cost. In general, it is better to do the plant with a line of engines. Frames, bodies and gliders are easier to do than an engine. IMHO estimated. By the way, that is why Soviet products are cheap if they are still being made, with comparable quality with the "bourgeois" ones. Advertising wasn’t spent too much on the appearance-design, either.
                      2. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 45 New
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                        If you can freely buy ... then you need to buy. Now the situation with production has changed. What used to be expensive and laborious now becomes easier. 5-axis machine tools and powder technologies and 3D technologies appeared ....
                        Of course, it’s not easy, but for this, the Ministry of Industry is sitting in the City Center and there are budgets.
                      3. Altona April 21 2020 11: 49 New
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                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        If you can freely buy ... then you need to buy. Now the situation with production has changed. What used to be expensive and laborious now becomes easier. 5-coordinate machines and powder technologies and 3D technologies appeared ...

                        -------------------------
                        Yes, nobody argues with that. We have huge labor taxes at low wages. And there are many other factors when above are not Edison, Zvorykins, Queens, Antonovs, but Manturovs and Rogozins.
                      4. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 57 New
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                        This issue is easily resolved .... subsidies and compensations. If you wish. In CX, this mechanism works, as in industry, I don’t know. But there are targeted loans, there is also compensation for%. State order is also there.
        2. Alexey RA April 21 2020 12: 19 New
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          Quote: Zaurbek
          If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all.

          Yeah ... only the manufacturer / exporter, when exporting such goods outside the EU, must declare that this product is purely civilian, is not a dual-use product, it does not apply there and there and generally does not fall under the cloud of EU Directives on restriction and control of exports. And God forbid, if it turns out that one of the directives is still violated.
          Even for ordinary leather, the list of directives, compliance with which is declared by the exporter, is two pages in small print.
          1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 12: 47 New
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            Yes, a similar situation was with the Tigers in a diesel engine and a box .... but if you set a goal, you could use it. South Africa generally makes its MRAP-BTR based on comm components. For free export
    2. iouris April 21 2020 11: 30 New
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      Quote: Zaurbek
      I would have shot someone in the square.

      Manturova?
      1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 41 New
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        Why not ..... he has a lot to do.
        Armata, Ms21, Aurus (by the way, his 4 4l think in the aviation version).
  3. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 10: 30 New
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    It’s still not clear. It is possible to localize the production of the engine in our country or put your own engine.
    The engine for the promising Orion unmanned aerial vehicle is at the final stage of bench testing. Developers are preparing to present the product to the state customer. About this Mil.Press Military informed an informed source in the military-industrial complex.

    https://военное.рф/2019/%D0%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B016/
  4. allegro April 21 2020 10: 33 New
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    you are right, there is nothing of your own, components from behind the hillock, in this area everything should be your own and most importantly the engine
    1. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 10: 44 New
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      Quote: alegro
      you are right, there is nothing of your own, components from behind the hillock, in this area everything should be your own and most importantly the engine

      No, on serial Orions there is a Russian APD-110/120 engine. APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. On experienced was the Austrian Rotax 914 rated at 115 hp.
      The engine on the Rotax 914 prototype with 86 kW (115 hp), equipped with a turbocharger to increase altitude. The two-blade screw AV-115 with a diameter of 1,9 meters is manufactured by Aerosila. For serial production, the Agat company, in cooperation with TsIAM, is developing the Russian APD-110/120 engine. Currently, the engine has successfully completed testing and entered mass production. The APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. This is an opposed four-cylinder engine with combined cooling (liquid - for cylinder heads, air - for cylinder shirts), has spark ignition and electronically controlled distributed fuel injection, is equipped with a turbocharger and a reduction gear.

      http://putc.org/amerikanskie-bpla-atakuyut/
      1. Mitroha April 21 2020 11: 03 New
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        No, on serial Orions there is a Russian APD-110/120 engine. APD-110/120

        This is a completely different matter.
    2. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 28 New
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      The main thing there is not the engine, but the target load. This is for price and exclusivity. The Americans are far from selling their Ripper to everyone, in armament and not to allies.
  5. Lopatov April 21 2020 10: 43 New
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    We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch. For everything in this area was lost even in the late USSR. There was no need.
    1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 30 New
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      ..and the USSR was not so strong in aircraft root motors. By resource, they do not reach pro-warlords in the USA during WWII
    2. orionvitt April 21 2020 11: 50 New
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      Quote: Spade
      For everything in this area was lost even in the late USSR

      Nonsense say the dearest. If something was once developed and even produced, then the backlog always remains. Maybe the production can be re-established, the technology updated, yes. The question is different. In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not involved, at least since the 40s. As they say, the niche is empty. Here, yes, it is necessary to develop (everything was invented before us) It is only among Americans that space technologies can stupidly “get lost”, and here the question immediately arises, was there “was a boy”?
      1. Lopatov April 21 2020 16: 03 New
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        Quote: orionvitt
        Nonsense say the dearest. If something was once developed and even produced, then the backlog always remains.

        Tell it to the Americans, my dear.
        And then they have to buy engines developed even during the USSR from us

        Quote: orionvitt
        In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not involved, at least since the 40s. As they say, the niche is empty.

        Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?
        1. orionvitt April 21 2020 18: 26 New
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          Can you read? To all your questions, I answered when you have not asked them yet. Reread.
          1. Lopatov April 21 2020 18: 42 New
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            Quote: orionvitt
            Can you read?

            And you?
            Once again, the Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?
            1. orionvitt April 21 2020 18: 53 New
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              Quote: Spade
              Once again, the Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?

              The M-14 engine, developed back in 1947, was originally installed on these aircraft brands. (AI-14) Once again, I had it written from the very beginning. I quote myself
              In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not involved, at least since the 40s.
              Reread. And about the loss of technology by the Americans, too.
              1. Lopatov April 21 2020 19: 18 New
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                Quote: orionvitt
                The M-14 engine, developed back in 1947, was originally installed on these aircraft brands.

                Yeah ...
                And the capacity from 240 to 360 horses by 1974 increased from dampness?
                laughing laughing laughing
                1. orionvitt April 21 2020 20: 05 New
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                  What is a modification you know? Or is there no such word in your vocabulary?
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%98-14
                2. Lopatov April 21 2020 20: 35 New
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                  Quote: orionvitt
                  What is a modification you know?

                  I know.
                  But I won’t know how to modify engines in conditions where "the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft, almost no work, at least since the 40s"

                  There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But power is growing ... Straight miracles ....
                3. Kasym April 21 2020 21: 49 New
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                  "Machine tools need modern ones" - that’s what you need, but with science (theory), since Soviet times, everything is in order. hi
                4. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 08 New
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                  Quote: Spade

                  There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But power is growing ... Straight miracles ....


                  Well, some power can be increased without development.
                  If you go along the same path of development of piston engines as automobile ones.
                  Low viscosity oils with anti-friction additives - there is a 2-3% increase.
                  Higher octane types of gasoline (during the war and the B-70 for happiness and not higher, and now 100 is not a problem). there is up to 5% increase.
                  Increase in the number of inlet / outlet valves.
                  Electronics-controlled injection phases (phase shifters) and stepped valve operation.
                  Changing the shape of the nozzles of the fuel nozzles that change the atomization cloud, multiple (per cycle) dosed partial fuel supply to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 servings per throw are thrown in to achieve not just an air-fuel mixture, but simply a “homogeneous substance” of the air-fuel mixture.) .
                  We do not consider boost, intercoolers, etc.
                  What then could be and is now.

                  All this and much more allows you to remove five times more power from engines of the same volume of military and modern days.
                5. Lopatov April 21 2020 22: 59 New
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                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Well, some power can be increased and without development.


                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Increase in the number of inlet / outlet valves.
                  Electronics-controlled injection phases (phase shifters) and stepped valve operation.
                  Changing the shape of the nozzles of the fuel nozzles that change the atomization cloud, multiple (per cycle) dosed partial fuel supply to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 servings per throw are thrown in to achieve not just an air-fuel mixture, but simply a “homogeneous substance” of the air-fuel mixture.) .
                  We do not consider boost, intercoolers, etc.


                  laughing
                6. SovAr238A April 21 2020 23: 10 New
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                  Quote: Spade

                  laughing


                  Sorry ,, .. :)
                  Thinly you take me for a cookie ... :)


                  Well, of course - all of the above is a real technological revolution ..
                  But ...
                  I'll try to make excuses.
                  The production technology of the engine itself changes little.
                  This is an old engine, but with a new hitch.
                  The cylinder head is new there. New timing system.
                  Usually in the Soviet Union, Bosch was paid for these innovations and then for licenses too ... Therefore, in Soviet times, Bosch never shone ...

                  But the crankcase and cylinder block itself are from the 60s :)
                7. Lopatov April 21 2020 23: 24 New
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                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Well, of course - all of the above is a real technological revolution ..

                  No, this is evidence that development has continued.
                  The "technological revolution" is still somewhat different. And with the microscopic volumes of production of technological revolutions, one would not have to wait.
            2. Cheerock April 22 2020 16: 47 New
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              *** multiple (per cycle) dosed partial fuel supply to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 servings per cycle are thrown in not only for the air-fuel mixture, but simply for the “homogeneous substance” of the air-fuel mixture.). *** - do not confuse soft and warm: multi-stage injection is diesel and common rail. The first injection and the first flash - an increase in the degree of preliminary expansion, the second injection and the second flash - the main portion of the fuel, the third injection - the burning of soot and a decrease in NOx, pure ecology. In gasoline, FSI works differently and there is enough time to prepare the mixture above the roof.
          2. orionvitt April 21 2020 23: 42 New
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            Quote: Spade
            Straight miracles ....

            You, this, that, just stuck on your own wave. laughing

            There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But the power is growing.
            We are talking about one engine, which was picked at the Voronezh plant (where production from Zaporozhye was transferred) for 40 years. Both for airplanes and for helicopters (KA-26), and everything is the same, but of different modifications. If something was improved, increased power, changed the transmission, nothing significant has changed. Structurally, the motor remained the same, and even the name, instead of M-14, changed to M-14P. What you want to prove, I do not understand. request
  • Altona April 21 2020 11: 54 New
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    Quote: Spade
    We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch.

    ----------------------------
    What for? It's easier to buy a license. Usually this was done if there was none. Make reverse engineering, that is, study and modify it later, make another engine or product on its basis.
    1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 19 New
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      Quote: Altona
      Quote: Spade
      We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch.

      ----------------------------
      What for? It's easier to buy a license. Usually this was done if there was none. Make reverse engineering, that is, study and modify it later, make another engine or product on its basis.


      In order for an engineer to do reverse engineering, he must possess all the knowledge and skills that the engineers who built the engine ...
      Otherwise, he will not understand those or other constructive solutions.

      And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

      What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...
      1. Altona April 21 2020 22: 34 New
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        Quote: SovAr238A
        And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

        What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

        --------------------------
        If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how to understand the "backward technical engineers"? There are engineers who did not finish their studies, because the specialty involves learning all my life. Another question is that one does not always want to litter one’s head and so knowing the principle of operation of the “miracle of modern technology”, especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above with the example of engines. And all this has long been supposed back in the shaggy 1980s, just now the elemental and other technical base has matured.
        PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give later recommendations or make new standards.
        1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 53 New
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          Quote: Altona
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

          What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

          --------------------------
          If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how to understand the "backward technical engineers"? There are engineers who did not finish their studies, because the specialty involves learning all my life. Another question is that one does not always want to litter one’s head and so knowing the principle of operation of the “miracle of modern technology”, especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above with the example of engines. And all this has long been supposed back in the shaggy 1980s, just now the elemental and other technical base has matured.
          PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give later recommendations or make new standards.


          Well here is the simplest example.
          Old school piston engines.
          And then a sleeveless engine appears.
          He is brought to the Central Automobile Plant.
          And there is a collapse.

          How so, this does not happen.

          Or bring a new engine.
          And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
          And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
          And again the collapse of thought.
          No one understands anything.

          They see that which cannot be in principle.
          This is unscientific.
          So the technique does not work.

          Tell you when it was?

          And then what happened with these engines?

          And yes, we still do not have such engines.
          1. Altona April 22 2020 07: 58 New
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            Quote: SovAr238A
            Or bring a new engine.
            And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
            And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
            And again the collapse of thought.
            No one understands anything.

            ------------------------
            I don’t know, I didn’t come across such "engineers". At one time he wrote a diploma in axial piston pumps, ours bought a license for a German pump then Mannesmann-Rexroth (now probably Bosch-Rexroth), there the piston-connecting rod pairs made one piston-piston part, and the whole scientific "The German base was understandable, ours lacked, so to speak, the production culture, there was an outdated technical base.
          2. Altona April 22 2020 09: 12 New
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            Quote: SovAr238A
            And yes, we still do not have such engines.

            -------------------
            If there are no such engines, then this is not at all the fault of the engineers, even if they are incomplete, but the fault of those who should develop the country's industry. For an engineer is not a craftsman, but an industry worker. For everything, it is necessary to create production facilities and related technologies so that all gaps, octane numbers, purification levels, Moth numbers, surface cleanliness and other parameters correspond to modern ones.
            As for the "obsolete" material base. There was manual welding, it worked, semi-automatic machines appeared, we work, inverter welders appeared, we work. What is the problem? So it is with machines. In a universal machine, mechanical drives, in a CNC-frequency drive, though there are boxes too. What are some problems? Learn G-codes? They are primitive since the time of King Peas. And so in everything.
  • K-612-O April 21 2020 11: 44 New
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    And what about Gazelles and Lawns? They didn’t stop something, and even transferred the entire production line to GAZ
    1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 11: 54 New
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      And what? There, a line of diesels was made under a contract with the Austrians .... made on the Lawn and buses and some powerful 450-550 hp to the Urals and there is still a licensed YaMZ (Renault) 420 hp and on the Gazelle, as Kamins walked, so it goes. Another added VW TDI 2.0l diesel
    2. SovAr238A April 21 2020 16: 08 New
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      Quote: K-612-O
      And what about Gazelles and Lawns? They didn’t stop something, and even transferred the entire production line to GAZ


      Oh well...
      You can immediately see the person who never bought or used Gazelles and Lawns ...

      And military UAZs do not want to remember where half of the components are made in China, including manual transmission and the Republic of Kazakhstan ...
      And about electronics
  • x.andvlad April 21 2020 15: 43 New
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    Quote: Mitroha
    What were you doing for ten years then?

    We have “engines” since time immemorial, a weak spot.
    It is hoped that over time he will still be replaced by a domestic engine.
    But we have a whole JSC United Engine Corporation. But so far, apparently, they have not mastered even a copy.
  • venik April 21 2020 12: 12 New
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    Quote: Sky Strike fighter
    The Russian Ministry of Defense has new requirements, so the creators of the Orion UAV will further refine it.

    =======
    So three times - this three - ALREADY FURNISHED (after Syria).
    1. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 12: 25 New
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      The Ministry of Defense has new requirements, under which Orion will be further developed.
      1. venik April 21 2020 12: 37 New
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        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        The Ministry of Defense has new requirements, under which Orion will be further developed.

        =======
        In fact, the Orion UAV was tested in Syria back in 2018 (i.e., more than a year and a half ago!), After which it was sent for revision. So, those delivered to the troops (which we are talking about in the article) are already sort of FINISHED!
  • Gray brother April 21 2020 10: 11 New
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    The maximum payload of the drone is 200 kilograms. The combat load of Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms.

    Do not understand. Like this?
    In the shock version, stokers work 2,5 times faster than shovels?
    1. Mitroha April 21 2020 10: 12 New
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      As I understand it, either flight duration or combat load.
    2. vvvjak April 21 2020 10: 13 New
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      Quote: Gray Brother
      Do not understand. Like this?

      In the shock version, he does not need fuel for 24 hours of flight, so you can hang more missiles.
      1. Gray brother April 21 2020 10: 15 New
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        Quote: vvvjak
        In the shock version, he does not need fuel for 24 hours of flight, so you can hang more missiles.

        I didn’t think about it. Thanks.
      2. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 10: 17 New
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        In the shock version, there are fewer sensors for reconnaissance and topography, there is most likely no reconnaissance radar in the X-band, therefore, space is released for combat load.
        1. vvvjak April 21 2020 10: 36 New
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          As I understand it, you're special. in aviation. Tell me what kind of missiles do you plan to use on UAVs?
          1. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 11: 34 New
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            Quote: vvvjak
            As I understand it, you're special. in aviation. Tell me what kind of missiles do you plan to use on UAVs?

            Guided bombs of 25 kg and 50 kg. But most likely this is not all that will be on the strike version of the Orion UAV. The latest LMUR, which was created for use from attack helicopters, is also possible.
            The complex consists of three samples of guided bombs - one 25 kg caliber and two 50 kg each. A spokesman for the Aviaavtomatika Design Bureau stated that a 25 kg bomb was dropped from Orion during testing.
            In addition, guided weapons for use with UAVs are also being developed by Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation (KTRV).

            https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3278291.html
            1. vvvjak April 21 2020 11: 50 New
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              Not about the bombs, I know. The article simply says: "In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board." It became interesting what kind of people they are. If LMUR (tests which the Zvezda shopping center showed in 2019), then I am afraid that they will have to wait a long time.
              1. venik April 21 2020 12: 55 New
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                Quote: vvvjak
                If LMUR (tests which the Zvezda shopping center showed in 2019), then I am afraid that they will have to wait a long time.

                =======
                If under LMUR it means "product 305" - then it is unlikely for a very long time:
                ".....The new Aviation Guided Missile Product 305 is being tested in combat in Syria. It is intended for use on the "Night Hunter" - an upgraded version of the Mi-28N helicopter..... "(https://profile.ru/news/protection/arms/novaya-rossijskaya-raketa-izdelie-305-proxodit-ispytaniya-v-sirii-134234/).
                I assume that this is something like amerskogo JAGM - "shot and forgot."
                1. tarakan April 21 2020 17: 51 New
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                  Always pinned the phrase "shot and forgot" only save the check laughing (joke)
        2. Gray brother April 21 2020 10: 39 New
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          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          In the shock version there are fewer sensors for reconnaissance, topography

          Such nonsense is now even placed in the "Orlan", at least the camera for three-dimensional shooting fits exactly.
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          there is probably no intelligence radar in the X-band

          I hope that this is not so, a drummer with a radar is much better than a drummer without a radar. I am more impressed by the version with fuel)))
          1. venik April 21 2020 13: 05 New
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            Quote: Gray Brother
            Such nonsense is now even placed in the "Orlan", at least the camera for three-dimensional shooting fits exactly.

            ========
            Besides the electron-optical terrain mapping equipment (they really learned how to make it quite compact), there’s a whole bunch of other intelligence equipment (including probably radio-technical intelligence equipment, etc., etc.), which also It has its own dimensions and weight (maybe pretty decent).
        3. alone April 21 2020 11: 16 New
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          In principle, a strike BLPA must simultaneously scout, survey and scan the terrain, find targets and destroy them ... it turns out that the first BLPA flies first, scouts, and then the striker rises?
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          there’s probably no X-band intelligence radar,

          what
          1. venik April 21 2020 13: 13 New
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            Quote: lonely
            It turns out that at first another BLPA flies, scouts, and then the drummer rises?

            ======
            Why not? The version is quite imagined ..... It’s possible that even in pairs they can fly: what the scout found is a drummer and hit ....
            Perhaps even the "drummer" will be able to work according to satellite intelligence .... Although here - I can’t vouch for it - it’s also difficult in time ...
            1. alone April 21 2020 13: 20 New
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              Quote: venik
              Why not? The version is quite imagined ..... It’s possible that even in pairs they can fly: what the scout found is a drummer and hit ....

              The process that you described, similar drummers from other countries do on their own.
              1. venik April 21 2020 16: 25 New
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                Quote: lonely
                The process that you described, similar drummers from other countries do on their own.

                ========
                Not all! The same Israelis (recognized UAV specialists) often use a reconnaissance-striker combination, and the Turks, too. In general, for relatively light UAVs of the "middle class" - such a scheme may be optimal. They’ll just have to sacrifice something: either a missile-bomb load or the ability to detect targets.
                But for the heavy drones - there YES! "Two in one" - optimum! The same MQ-9 Reaper is there with a maximum take-off weight of almost 5 tons (!) - a carrying capacity of 1.7 tons (!!) and the weapon system is where to place ....
          2. tarakan April 21 2020 17: 54 New
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            Wow death star turns out and by weight too laughing
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. Gray brother April 21 2020 11: 41 New
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        Quote: NordUral
        That fuel per hour flight can only take (about 450 liters).

        Why is this? Your consumption is indicated in grams per horsepower so to find out the consumption in kilograms you need to multiply 90 by 210, you get 18 kg with copecks. 450 divided by 18 will be 25 - this is a clock.
        Everything seems to be right.
  • Doccor18 April 21 2020 10: 11 New
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    A shock drone is good!
    Test on the battlefield and hundreds in the videoconferencing! But it’s interesting when UAVs start to shoot down each other?
    1. Mitroha April 21 2020 10: 20 New
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      Yeah, hundreds ..
      Austrian Rotax Turbo Engine
    2. venik April 21 2020 13: 30 New
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      Quote: Doccor18
      But it’s interesting when UAVs start to shoot down each other?

      =========
      So already !!!

      Source: “Almaz-Antei developed a drone with a shotgun for hunting UAVs” (https://habr.com/ru/news/t/446274/)
      Even at VO there was: “A video of testing the“ flying carbine ”appeared on the Web” (https://topwar.ru/156001-v-seti-pojavilos-video-ispytanij-letajuschego-karabina.html).
      The video showed how he shot down another light despilot (though not from the first run). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMYeCHbY3g)
  • APASUS April 21 2020 10: 14 New
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    The good news is very! But again, there was a fly in the ointment, the Orion UAV had an imported Rotax 914 engine. Who would let us build serious aircraft in the event of a conflict?
    1. Fedor Sokolov April 21 2020 10: 19 New
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      Under the "Orion" is developing the Russian engine APD-110/120!
      1. venik April 21 2020 13: 44 New
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        Quote: Fedor Sokolov
        Under the "Orion" is developing the Russian engine APD-110/120!

        =======
        as it has already been developed and tested, and is now preparing for serial production. It’s a pity the article does not say which engines stand on the transmitted “Orions” - Rotax's or already APD?
  • Fedor Sokolov April 21 2020 10: 17 New
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    This is very pleasing, it is time to catch up, otherwise I was very ashamed of the situation in Idlib that we could not give the Turks an asymmetric answer.
    1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 10: 24 New
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      Recently, unknown UAVs bombed a pro-Turkish formation there ... not Orions?
      1. Fedor Sokolov April 21 2020 10: 35 New
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        No! For the Orion, so far, only a few units have been produced and they are just beginning to enter the arsenal of the Russian Aerospace Forces.
        1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 10: 57 New
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          But there was news, the first formation with the orions was sent to Syria
  • sanik2020 April 21 2020 10: 19 New
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    Do not understand. Like this?
    In the shock version, stokers work 2,5 times faster than shovels?

    Rather, it will be another machine or modification, in this form, such a load will not pull.
    The question is different, what radar visibility of this device, and in the event of a serious war, it will not even reach the front line, they will notice and bring it down over its own rear.
    1. Zaurbek April 21 2020 10: 25 New
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      In the "Military Acceptance" showed a couple of UAV dimensions. One generally Ripper type size.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • knn54 April 21 2020 10: 37 New
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    Something the Greeks are silent.
  • NordUral April 21 2020 10: 50 New
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    Finally, though small, but at least such to begin with.
  • andrew42 April 21 2020 10: 59 New
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    The news is good, but, as always, this is not enough. That's when the Russian engine will be "installed" and not "developed", then it will become a weapon. In the meantime, NO. Otherwise, it ends with the famous rhymes "the enemy enters the city, sparing no prisoners from the fact that there was no nail in the forge."
  • Zan
    Zan April 21 2020 10: 59 New
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    alegro (leonid) AAAAA, ......... Everything is gone .... We will all die
  • Svetlana April 21 2020 11: 07 New
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    Quote: alegro
    Leading Aircraft Power we were in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

    In the recent past, Russia as an independent subject of international law did not exist.
  • Piramidon April 21 2020 11: 12 New
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    Russian Army received the first three UAV "Orion" ....
    ... After test flights, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation had additional wishes that were not originally included in the terms of reference. Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

    Maybe I didn’t understand something, but it turns out that now the Ministry of Defense does not have them yet, and they are not accepted for service. At least until the completion of improvements. request
  • Oleg1 April 21 2020 11: 13 New
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    In addition: for the eyes of those who are always happy to find even a small speck in the eye ... we have:
    The engine on the Rotax 914 prototype with 86 kW (115 hp), equipped with a turbocharger to increase altitude. The two-blade screw AV-115 with a diameter of 1,9 meters is manufactured by Aerosila. For serial production, the Agat company, in cooperation with TsIAM, is developing the Russian APD-110/120 engine. Currently, the engine has successfully completed testing and entered mass production. The APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. This is an opposed four-cylinder engine with combined cooling (liquid - for cylinder heads, air - for cylinder shirts), has spark ignition and electronically controlled distributed fuel injection, is equipped with a turbocharger and a reduction gear.

    http://putc.org/amerikanskie-bpla-atakuyut/
  • Thrifty April 21 2020 11: 35 New
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    With a ton of weight, he will pull 450kg of bombs far? am belay There are no errors in the numbers by accident? ?? recourse
  • _Ugene_ April 21 2020 11: 51 New
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    The combat load of Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms. In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board.
    And what exactly of high-precision air-to-ground missiles do we have in this weight category? in my opinion nothing
    1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 04 New
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      Quote: _Ugene_
      And what exactly of high-precision air-to-ground missiles do we have in this weight category? in my opinion nothing

      In the special exposition of the “Innovation Club” within the framework of the 3rd International Military-Technical Forum “Army-2017” at the booth of OKB Aviaavtomatika LLC (Kursk), a new aviation weapons complex for UAVs (KAVB) is presented. Work is being carried out jointly with VAIS-Technika LLC (Zhukovsky).


      These are bombs, as I understand it. But it's hot that you can stick the engine.
      According to Aviaavtomatika OKB company representatives, the ammunition family was built on a modular basis with a single structural base. The presented samples of aviation weapons are unified among themselves according to the transverse size of the fuselage (the length of the fuselage may be different) and the tail. It is possible to install a fixed x-shaped wing or a large-span wing opening in flight (gliding ammunition). One of the UAAS samples is equipped with a thermal imaging guidance system. Perhaps the use of a small engine.

      Ammunition masses, according to the developers, range from 25 to 50 kg. Launch range - up to 100 km. As warheads, the use of small-sized combat elements from MLRS shells is supposed. The suspension device is also unified.
      1. Sky strike fighter April 21 2020 12: 41 New
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        Up to 100 km? Decent. Good news.
      2. _Ugene_ April 21 2020 12: 42 New
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        it's all prototypes, we don’t have anything serial in this class yet
        1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 43 New
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          Quote: _Ugene_
          we don’t have anything serial in this class yet

          So nowhere to hang.
          1. _Ugene_ April 21 2020 12: 44 New
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            so it’s like an article about what is already where to hang
            1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 47 New
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              Quote: _Ugene_
              so it’s like an article about what is already where to hang

              So it does not say what exactly the MO wants and in what quantity. Maybe they need clean scouts.
  • yfast April 21 2020 11: 52 New
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    Why bombs and not rockets?
    1. Varaga April 21 2020 15: 52 New
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      Guided bombs can be dropped from very high heights. Whereas rockets are deprived of such an opportunity.
  • Varaga April 21 2020 11: 58 New
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    Comrades, members of the forum, can I only see that the shape of the nose of our "Orion" vividly resembles that of the Pin-dosovsky Reaper?
    1. Courier April 21 2020 12: 14 New
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      Riper's nose has a hump.
      1. Varaga April 21 2020 12: 42 New
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        Yes. But still, in general, it is very similar to him.
  • Galleon April 21 2020 12: 26 New
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    Judging by the characteristics given in the comments, the commerce managed to enter the military long-range reconnaissance without a satellite communication channel, because during a flight of 24 hours the range of 250 km is due to the radio horizon at the maximum flight height and maximum antenna height of the operator’s kung. And the operator’s post itself remained vulnerable in the armed confrontation of a technically equipped enemy.
    It's a pity. Really sorry! I was already happy, I thought that we had achieved our first real UAV with satellite communications, and there would have been such a regiment in each VO and a squadron in the fleet, and here: 24 hours ... 250 km ... then eat ...
    Okay, wait.
    The name, by the way, is good. The American R-3 Orion is a wonderful patrol aircraft, how many times it met. His special calling card was cruising with one engine shut off.
    I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.
    1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 37 New
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      Quote: Galleon
      I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.

      You do not send a line by mail? laughing
      1. Galleon April 21 2020 12: 40 New
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        Quote: Gray Brother
        Quote: Galleon
        I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.

        You do not send a line by mail? laughing

        Oh, my bosom friend quickened! hi Could say hello. Perhaps, yes, send me in a personal marine navigating ruler with a protractor, and you can also a drawing workshop. Don’t hang around there - they themselves suggested.
        1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 42 New
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          Quote: Galleon
          send me in a personal navigational ruler with a protractor, and you can also a drawing workshop. Don’t hang around there - they themselves suggested.

          I can only send Chinese with wrong millimeters (almost 20 cm.))) Green.
          1. Galleon April 21 2020 12: 51 New
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            Quote: Gray Brother
            I can only send Chinese with wrong millimeters (almost 20 cm.))) Green.

            Sergey, for some reason, I thought that the whole offer would end with Chinese centimeters laughing stop No, thanks.
            But seriously, I evaluate this apparatus primarily as the former ... And it is clear that its reconnaissance range is well enough for the use of the RZSO Smerch, but in the operational respect it is already lacking. And it could be enough for his characteristics, if he had this communication channel that got his teeth on edge - that’s what is the most pity.
            1. Gray brother April 21 2020 12: 57 New
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              Quote: Galleon
              but in operational terms it is already missing. And it could have sufficed with its characteristics, if he had this communication channel, which had fallen on edge, that’s the pity most.

              This is not for him, this is for “Altair” probably already. According to the satellite constellation, this is not the last question either, I don’t even know if the devices are generally suitable there.
  • 501Legion April 21 2020 13: 59 New
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    Russia probably should have analogues of the American halfer. why not attach pylons for 2-4 missiles.
    1. Gray brother April 21 2020 16: 53 New
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      Quote: 501Legion
      Russia probably should have analogues of the American halfer. why not attach pylons for 2-4 missiles.

      There are anti-tank helicopters. But there is its own guidance system - it will have to be integrated, and it is imprisoned for sighting systems of large machines.
  • Alexey-74 April 21 2020 14: 27 New
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    This is a significant event in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation !!! "Orion" will run in, improve, give a good experience and base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)
    1. Gray brother April 21 2020 16: 54 New
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      Quote: Alexey-74
      "Orion" will run in, improve, give a good experience and base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)

      It was announced that he will connect with the Su-57 (and not only), just like the "Hunter".
    2. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 22 New
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      Quote: Alexey-74
      This is a significant event in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation !!! "Orion" will run in, improve, give a good experience and base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)


      They have different application concepts, different management concepts ...

      He will not give anything.

      Does a tractor driver plowman really help his experience and skills when landing him in a Formula 1 car and vice versa ... ?????
  • Tavrik April 21 2020 20: 14 New
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    Quote: Galleon
    the merchants managed to enter into the military a long-range reconnaissance aircraft without a satellite communication channel,

    Why "managed to get involved"? What was ordered, then realized. Everyone understands that a satellite channel needs a serious satellite repeater resource, plus compact and light phased arrays or parabolas with all the high-frequency “strapping”. Plus a bunch of other problems. And all this will shift the terms of work and its price HZ where. And the product must be "here and now." So they did it to a minimum.
    1. SovAr238A April 21 2020 22: 24 New
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      Quote: Tavrik
      Quote: Galleon
      the merchants managed to enter into the military a long-range reconnaissance aircraft without a satellite communication channel,

      Why "managed to get involved"? What was ordered, then realized. Everyone understands that a satellite channel needs a serious satellite repeater resource, plus compact and light phased arrays or parabolas with all the high-frequency “strapping”. Plus a bunch of other problems. And all this will shift the terms of work and its price HZ where. And the product must be "here and now." So they did it to a minimum.


      Those. They didn’t make fish or meat.
      It’s pointless to release an empty craft. He cannot fulfill the required modern tasks. Just can not.
      1. Tavrik April 22 2020 00: 23 New
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        Well, trained ... "I can not catch up, even warm up!". With such range and duration, how is it better, for example, the Orlan, which have been flying for a long time, is cheaper and more compact? Except as a strike aircraft.
  • da Vinci April 21 2020 21: 11 New
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    Unfortunately, the RQ-4 Global Hawk is still very far away.
  • Cheerock April 22 2020 16: 29 New
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    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: Altona
    Quote: SovAr238A
    And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

    What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

    --------------------------
    If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how to understand the "backward technical engineers"? There are engineers who did not finish their studies, because the specialty involves learning all my life. Another question is that one does not always want to litter one’s head and so knowing the principle of operation of the “miracle of modern technology”, especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above with the example of engines. And all this has long been supposed back in the shaggy 1980s, just now the elemental and other technical base has matured.
    PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give later recommendations or make new standards.


    Well here is the simplest example.
    Old school piston engines.
    And then a sleeveless engine appears.
    He is brought to the Central Automobile Plant.
    And there is a collapse.

    How so, this does not happen.

    Or bring a new engine.
    And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
    And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
    And again the collapse of thought.
    No one understands anything.

    They see that which cannot be in principle.
    This is unscientific.
    So the technique does not work.

    Tell you when it was?

    And then what happened with these engines?

    And yes, we still do not have such engines.


    *** And then a sleeveless engine appears.
    He is brought to the Central Automobile Plant. And there a collapse takes place. *** - ICE “without a sleeve” has been known since the Stone Age. The same VAZ-2101 was without shells. If you are talking about nickasil for aluminum, then this is also a well-known topic and in the 50s it would not surprise anyone.

    *** And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
    And hang out like glasses in a pencil. *** - but tell us how it was, yes. Evolution was exactly the opposite - from alloys with a high degree of linear expansion and large gaps, compensated by heating parts of the CPG to heat-resistant composite pistons with a ceramic bottom to minimize thermal gaps.
  • TermNachTer April 22 2020 19: 59 New
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    A Bandera dill killed the first "Bayraktar". Today in Starokonstantinov it’s either a hard landing, or a controlled fall. No details yet.
  • nnz226 April 22 2020 21: 41 New
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    Will they test in Syria ?!
  • Chaldon48 April 23 2020 10: 04 New
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    Interestingly sometime drones will appear capable of taking on board at least a platoon of parachutists?