Russian military received the first long-range unmanned complex

The Russian army received the first three UAV "Orion". This unmanned complex was created by the efforts of the Kronstadt group of companies.

He told the news agency about this. TASS General Designer of the development team Nikolai Dolzhenkov.

The main feature of the new aircraft is the long duration of flights. Its maximum takeoff weight is 1000 kilograms. The UAV is able to stay in the air with a maximum load of up to 24 hours. Its "ceiling" is at an altitude of 7,5 thousand meters. Maximum Payload drone is 200 kilograms. The combat load of the Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms. In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board.

Nikolai Dolzhenkov emphasized that for the first time the Russian military receives an unmanned aerial vehicle of this dimension.

Military acceptance checked the equipment drone and conducted flight tests. They were in Syria. After the test flights, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation had additional wishes that were not originally included in the terms of reference. Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

The creation of Orion drones has been held since 2011 as part of the Pacer project.

Comments

[KVU-NSVD]

Finally, it was even inconvenient somehow to work with this class of vehicles from one of the leading aircraft manufacturing countries.

[allegro]

we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: alegro

we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

We build and develop airplanes, in many aspects, moreover, advanced ones, and are not an aircraft building power? You do not feel any logical dissonance in your statement?

[cost]

long-range unmanned complex "Orion"

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Rich

long-range unmanned complex "Orion"

Does your work range not bother you?
Long-range - no more than 300km.
What does this mean?
The fact that the most important parameter in the form of a "secure satellite communication channel" is not and is not planned ...
There is no narrow secure channel, which means there is no security from control interception - there is not and never will be.

[Genry]

Quote: SovAr238A

Long-range - no more than 300km.
What does this mean?
The fact that the most important parameter in the form of a "secure satellite communication channel" is not and is not planned ...
There is no narrow secure channel, which means there is no security from control interception - there is not and never will be.

What is the relationship between the range and the closed (encrypted) communication / control channel.
It is known that a flying repeater is cheaper than a satellite ....
And what kind of "narrow secure channel" did you come up with?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Genry

And what kind of "narrow secure channel" did you come up with?

What is a secure data channel that uses a narrow beam antenna for two-way data transmission with a satellite?

[Tavrik]

In general, the adjectives "narrow" and "wide" are commonly used as slang for bandwidth. In terms of antenna patterns, they often say "circular" or "directional".

[Tavrik]

For a flying repeater, two more crews must be involved (for shift work), in addition, with a repeater, their range increases by only 50 km. Most likely because the antennas on the sides are omnidirectional, unlike the "ground".

[slipped]

Quote: SovAr238A

Does your work range not bother you?

And you are not confused by the name "Orion-E"

[SovAr238A]

Quote: slipped

Quote: SovAr238A

Does your work range not bother you?

And you are not confused by the name "Orion-E"

No.
All these many years of attempts to understate the characteristics of "E" -export models are complete nonsense.
For not a single buyer who wants to buy for their hard-earned millions of dollars is the obviously worst product, subject to enormous competition in the market ...
And the competition in this market is huge.
And the Turks and Chinese and Israel and many others.

[slipped]

Quote: SovAr238A

All these many years of attempts to understate the characteristics of "E" -export models are complete nonsense.

Well, well, if you think so, we’re better

[Voyager]

That is, heavily cut export options for Caliber and hundreds of other items - a lie?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Voyager

That is, heavily cut export options for Caliber and hundreds of other items - a lie?

And please tell me what "heavily cut export versions of Calibers" do you know?
Let's sort through the points ...

[Voyager]

Yes please. 3M-54E, 3M-54E1, 3M-14E, 91RE1, 91RTE2 - all these are modifications of Caliber in export version. They are Club in different guises. One of the main parameters - range - is cut artificially and in different versions ranges from 40-50 to 200-300 km.
Let me remind you, such products performed for the RF Armed Forces have many times greater range.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Voyager

М-54Э, 3М-54Э1, 3М-14Э

You really do not see the difference between the anti-ship versions of the Caliber missile and its tactical options?
Not a single tactical option was sold abroad.

And besides, Russia, like all other technological countries of the world, does not have the right to sell missile weapons with a flight range of more than 300 km.
These are world laws, not versions of "E" ...
So do not replace the concept.

Versions "E" - are available for aircraft, radar, air defense systems, etc.

[The Word of the Word]

This is TTX export version. What will be the performance characteristics, functionality and a set of on-board equipment of a serial sample so far no one knows.

[AnderS]

leading aircraft manufacturing countries.

leading an aircraft building power we were in the recent past

Don't see the absurdity in your own statement?
A person objects not to the fact that we are building planes, but to the fact that we are a leading power ...

[bistrov.]

Quote: alegro

we were a leading aircraft manufacturing power in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

Nonsense. Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers. We can talk about a certain decrease in the level, which is quite natural after the general decline caused by the collapse of the USSR. By the way, a drop in the level occurred in all other aircraft building states. Now, apparently, the gap is successfully being overcome ..

[Threaded screw]

Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers.

And the only one with a full production cycle from ore mining to software.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Threaded Screw

Russia was and is one of the few leading aircraft-building powers.

And the only one with a full production cycle from ore mining to software.

And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?
Thousands of Boeings with Airbus are already being purchased.

And if earlier the sale of one military aircraft was equal to the sale of 10 civilians in value.
Now civilians are starting to cost as much as the military.
Only the military needs 12-50 pieces.
A civilian 200-500 ...

[Threaded screw]

And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?

Sir, there is a huge difference between the market and the security of the fatherland.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Threaded Screw

And how does this help us build our own civil aviation?

Sir, there is a huge difference between the market and the security of the fatherland.

An economically developed country can afford an order of magnitude stronger army than an economically backward country.
Anyone who does not understand this - dies in the first attack with drafts. against tanks ...

[Threaded screw]

Anyone who does not understand this - dies in the first attack

Do you want to say this with your opus?

[bzbo]

https://rg.ru/2020/04/20/panciri-uspeshno-ohotiatsia-na-tureckie-udarnye-bespilotniki-v-livii.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru

[fruit_cake]

who are "we"? Ukrainians except

[Viktor Sergeev]

We are one of the leading. It is clear that the United States is ahead of the rest, both in terms of money and the imposition of its technology. But it’s not yet evening, we must strive to occupy our niche and, in the event of a US collapse, fight for our pie.

[Peter is not the first]

Most recently, we congratulated Iran on the first delivery by the military of three strike drones, and now our Defense Ministry has received the first delivery from our industry. With an initiative !!!

[Mister X]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

and it’s even inconvenient to somehow manage with this class of devices from one of the leading aircraft manufacturing countries

Found a video on the topic.

[mitroha]

The Russian army received the first three UAV "Orion" ....

Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

So received after revision or received and handed back for revision? Can news be specified?

[Sky strike fighter]

The Russian Ministry of Defense has new requirements, so the creators of the Orion UAV will further refine it.

The RF Ministry of Defense signed an acceptance certificate for the first Orion long-duration unmanned complex. The complex consists of three devices.

- The customer has additional wishes that initially were not. Therefore, we will take the complex back and modify it, ”Dolzhenkov explained.
UAV "Orion" is a medium-altitude unmanned complex with a long flight duration and carrying capacity. Takeoff weight 1000 kg, payload weight 200 kg. The drone can fly 24 hours at an average speed of 200 km / h. The Orion is powered by a pusher propeller and is powered by a 114-horsepower Austrian Rotax turbocharged engine to increase altitude. The practical ceiling of the drone is seven kilometers.
The drone is supposed to be used for aerial reconnaissance, patrolling the area, targeting and adjusting fire, topographic survey of the area. In addition to a digital camera and a set of sensors, Orion is equipped with an X-band radar.

https://rg.ru/2020/04/20/reg-szfo/armiia-rossii-poluchila-pervyj-dalnij-bespilotnik.html

[mitroha]

Austrian Rotax Turbo Engine

Do we all play "partners"?
For almost ten years, the UAV has been worn out and, as a result, with an imported engine. What were you doing for ten years then? Have you installed the engine from different sides or something?
That is, you can not count on mass production, the Austrians will instantly be "advised" to stop selling engines to us

[Zaurbek]

This is a commercial product. There is no alternative. If you wait for your own, then the whole program will slow down. If you did not begin to build a plant for such reciprocating engines (and of different power), then I would have shot someone in the square.

[Altona]

Quote: Zaurbek

This is a commercial product. There is no alternative. If you wait for your own, then the whole program will slow down. If you did not begin to build a plant for such reciprocating engines (and of different power), then I would have shot someone in the square.

------------------------
You have a good comment. This product is commercial, which means that any revision requires decent money. About building factories. If you build a plant, you need to find a market for these motors. This is also a costly event. This is what is called "the market has settled." Within the framework of the planned economy, the initial versions of the UAV would be transferred to the agricultural aviation and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, the engine plant would also not be left without orders. The engines would go to the national economy for various equipment. R&D would be carried out by state research institutes, and not by the laboratory of the enterprise itself. What I mean is that production and development costs would be lower and implementation faster thanks to the plan. Costs because could be recovered from different sources.

[Zaurbek]

If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all. You take the desired dimension and set. Almost the entire line of UAVs in Americans (maybe, except for STELS) is built on the basis of commercial root, electric, and theater of military operations and turbojet engines.

[Altona]

Quote: Zaurbek

If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all.

-----------------------------------------
How to understand "turnover is not regulated"? I mean, no one is tracking the end consumer?

[Zaurbek]

Monitors, but does not require permission from the State Services ....

[Altona]

Quote: Zaurbek

Monitors, but does not require permission from the State Services ....

---------------------
I commented a little differently. In our conditions, industrial projects are not very profitable, I mean that. And the market is a bit narrow.

[Zaurbek]

So you need to design a line of machines (dimension, type of engine) correctly, with the maximum use of one engine. And use it somewhere else. The question is not simple, but the situation is different from the business project.

[Altona]

Quote: Zaurbek

So you need to design a line of machines (dimension, type of engine) correctly, with the maximum use of one engine. And use it somewhere else. The question is not simple, but the situation is different from the business project.

----------------------
So I talked about this, only in a planned economy would sales be guaranteed, but here you need a marketing strategy, advertising is again a cost. In general, it is better to make a plant with a line of engines. Frames, bodies and gliders are easier to make than an engine. IMHO is estimated. Incidentally, this is why Soviet products are cheap if they are still being made, with comparable quality to the "bourgeois" ones. Advertising was not particularly spent on appearance-design.

[Zaurbek]

If you can freely buy ... then you need to buy. Now the situation with production has changed. What used to be expensive and laborious now becomes easier. 5-axis machine tools and powder technologies and 3D technologies appeared ....
Of course, it’s not easy, but for this, the Ministry of Industry is sitting in the City Center and there are budgets.

[Altona]

Quote: Zaurbek

If you can freely buy ... then you need to buy. Now the situation with production has changed. What used to be expensive and laborious now becomes easier. 5-coordinate machines and powder technologies and 3D technologies appeared ...

-------------------------
Yes, nobody argues with that. We have huge labor taxes at low wages. And there are many other factors when above are not Edison, Zvorykins, Queens, Antonovs, but Manturovs and Rogozins.

[Zaurbek]

This issue is easily resolved .... subsidies and compensations. If you wish. In CX, this mechanism works, as in industry, I don’t know. But there are targeted loans, there is also compensation for%. State order is also there.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Zaurbek

If the product is commercial, then its turnover is not regulated .... that's all.

Yeah ... only the manufacturer / exporter, when exporting such goods outside the EU, must declare that this product is purely civilian, is not a dual-use product, it does not apply there and there and generally does not fall under the cloud of EU Directives on restriction and control of exports. And God forbid, if it turns out that one of the directives is still violated.
Even for ordinary leather, the list of directives, compliance with which is declared by the exporter, is two pages in small print.

[Zaurbek]

Yes, a similar situation was with the "Tigers" on a diesel engine and a gearbox .... but if you set a goal you could use it. South Africa generally makes its MRAP-BTR based on comm components. For free export

[iouris]

Quote: Zaurbek

I would have shot someone in the square.

Manturova?

[Zaurbek]

Why not ..... he has a lot to do.
Armata, Ms21, Aurus (by the way, his 4 4l think in the aviation version).

[Sky strike fighter]

It’s still not clear. It is possible to localize the production of the engine in our country or put your own engine.

The engine for the promising Orion unmanned aerial vehicle is in the final stage of bench tests. The developers are preparing to present the product to the government customer. A well-informed source in the military-industrial complex told Mil.Press Military about this.

https://военное.рф/2019/%D0%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B016/

[allegro]

you are right, there is nothing of your own, components from behind the hillock, in this area everything should be your own and most importantly the engine

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: alegro

you are right, there is nothing of your own, components from behind the hillock, in this area everything should be your own and most importantly the engine

No, on serial Orions there is a Russian APD-110/120 engine. APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. On experienced was the Austrian Rotax 914 rated at 115 hp.

The engine on the Rotax 914 prototype with 86 kW (115 hp), equipped with a turbocharger to increase altitude. The two-blade screw AV-115 with a diameter of 1,9 meters is manufactured by Aerosila. For serial production, the Agat company, in cooperation with TsIAM, is developing the Russian APD-110/120 engine. Currently, the engine has successfully completed testing and entered mass production. The APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. This is an opposed four-cylinder engine with combined cooling (liquid - for cylinder heads, air - for cylinder shirts), has spark ignition and electronically controlled distributed fuel injection, is equipped with a turbocharger and a reduction gear.

http://putc.org/amerikanskie-bpla-atakuyut/

[mitroha]

No, on serial Orions there is a Russian APD-110/120 engine. APD-110/120

This is a completely different matter.

[Zaurbek]

The main thing there is not the engine, but the target load. This is for price and exclusivity. The Americans are far from selling their Ripper to everyone, in armament and not to allies.

[Lopatov]

We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch. For everything in this area was lost even in the late USSR. There was no need.

[Zaurbek]

..and the USSR was not so strong in aircraft root motors. By resource, they do not reach pro-warlords in the USA during WWII

[orionvitt]

Quote: Spade

For everything in this area was lost even in the late USSR

Talk nonsense, dear. If something was once developed and even produced, then the groundwork always remains. We can re-establish production, renew technologies, yes. The question is different. In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not engaged, at least since the 40s. As they say, the niche is empty. Here, yes, it is necessary to develop (everything was invented before us) It is only for Americans that space technologies can be stupidly "lost", and then the question immediately arises, "Was there a boy?"

[Lopatov]

Quote: orionvitt

Nonsense say the dearest. If something was once developed and even produced, then the backlog always remains.

Tell it to the Americans, my dear.
And then they have to buy engines developed even during the USSR from us

Quote: orionvitt

In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not involved, at least since the 40s. As they say, the niche is empty.

Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?

[orionvitt]

Can you read? To all your questions, I answered when you have not asked them yet. Reread.

[Lopatov]

Quote: orionvitt

Can you read?

And you?
Once again, the Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?

[orionvitt]

Quote: Spade

Once again, the Yak-52, Yak-54, Yak-55, Su-26 are gliders?

The M-14 engine, developed back in 1947, was originally installed on these aircraft brands. (AI-14) Once again, I had it written from the very beginning. I quote myself

In the USSR, the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft was practically not involved, at least since the 40s.

Reread. And about the loss of technology by the Americans, too.

[Lopatov]

Quote: orionvitt

The M-14 engine, developed back in 1947, was originally installed on these aircraft brands.

Yeah ...
And the capacity from 240 to 360 horses by 1974 increased from dampness?

[orionvitt]

What is a modification you know? Or is there no such word in your vocabulary?
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%98-14

[Lopatov]

Quote: orionvitt

What is a modification you know?

I know.
But I don’t know how to modify engines in conditions when "the development of a line of piston engines for small aircraft, almost no work, at least since the 40s"

There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But power is growing ... Straight miracles ....

[Kasym]

"We need modern machines" - that's what you need, but with science (theory), from Soviet times, everything is in order.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Spade

There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But power is growing ... Straight miracles ....

Well, some power can be increased without development.
If you go along the same path of development of piston engines as automobile ones.
Low viscosity oils with anti-friction additives - there is a 2-3% increase.
Higher octane types of gasoline (during the war and the B-70 for happiness and not higher, and now 100 is not a problem). there is up to 5% increase.
Increase in the number of inlet / outlet valves.
Electronics-controlled injection phases (phase shifters) and stepped valve operation.
Changing the shape of the nozzles of the fuel injectors that change the spray cloud, multiple (per cycle) metered partial supply of fuel to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 portions per cycle are thrown in to achieve not just an air-fuel mixture, but simply a "homogeneous substance" of air-fuel.) ...
We do not consider boost, intercoolers, etc.
What then could be and is now.

All this and much more allows you to remove five times more power from engines of the same volume of military and modern days.

[Lopatov]

Quote: SovAr238A

Well, some power can be increased and without development.

Quote: SovAr238A

Increase in the number of inlet / outlet valves.
Electronics-controlled injection phases (phase shifters) and stepped valve operation.
Changing the shape of the nozzles of the fuel injectors that change the spray cloud, multiple (per cycle) metered partial supply of fuel to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 portions per cycle are thrown in to achieve not just an air-fuel mixture, but simply a "homogeneous substance" of air-fuel.) ...
We do not consider boost, intercoolers, etc.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Spade

Sorry ,, .. :)
Thinly you take me for a cookie ... :)


Well, of course - all of the above is a real technological revolution ..
But ...
I'll try to make excuses.
The production technology of the engine itself changes little.
This is an old engine, but with a new hitch.
The cylinder head is new there. New timing system.
Usually in the Soviet Union, Bosch was paid for these innovations and then for licenses too ... Therefore, in Soviet times, Bosch never shone ...

But the crankcase and cylinder block itself are from the 60s :)

[Lopatov]

Quote: SovAr238A

Well, of course - all of the above is a real technological revolution ..

No, this is evidence that development has continued.
"technological revolution" is still somewhat different. And with microscopic volumes of production, revolutions in technology would not be worth waiting for.

[Cheerock]

*** multiple (per cycle) metered partial supply of fuel to the cylinders during the cycle (up to 6 portions per cycle are thrown in to achieve not just an air-fuel mixture, but simply a "homogeneous substance" of an air-fuel mixture.). *** - do not confuse soft and warm: multi-stage injection is diesel and common rail. The first injection and the first flash are an increase in the pre-expansion ratio, the second injection and the second flash are the main portion of the fuel, the third injection is soot afterburning and NOx reduction, clean ecology. FSI works differently in gasoline and there is enough time to prepare the mixture above the roof.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Spade

Straight miracles ....

You, this, that, just stuck on your own wave.

There are no developments in the field of piston for small aircraft. But the power is growing.

We are talking about one engine, which was picked at the Voronezh plant (where production from Zaporozhye was transferred) for 40 years. Both for airplanes and for helicopters (KA-26), and everything is the same, but of different modifications. If something was improved, increased power, changed the transmission, nothing significant has changed. Structurally, the motor remained the same, and even the name, instead of M-14, changed to M-14P. What you want to prove, I do not understand.

[Altona]

Quote: Spade

We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch.

----------------------------
What for? It's easier to buy a license. Usually this was done if there was none. Make reverse engineering, that is, study and modify it later, make another engine or product on its basis.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Altona

Quote: Spade

We need to start developing piston aircraft engines from scratch, from scratch.

----------------------------
What for? It's easier to buy a license. Usually this was done if there was none. Make reverse engineering, that is, study and modify it later, make another engine or product on its basis.

In order for an engineer to do reverse engineering, he must possess all the knowledge and skills that the engineers who built the engine ...
Otherwise, he will not understand those or other constructive solutions.

And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

[Altona]

Quote: SovAr238A

And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

--------------------------
If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how do you understand "technically retarded engineers"? There are engineers who have not completed their studies, because the specialty involves learning all their lives. Another question is that you don't always want to clog your head and so knowing the principle of operation of the "miracle of modern technology", especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above using the example of engines. And all this was supposed for a long time back in the furry 1980s, just now the elementary and other technical base has matured.
PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give recommendations later or make new standards.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Altona

Quote: SovAr238A

And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

--------------------------
If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how do you understand "technically retarded engineers"? There are engineers who have not completed their studies, because the specialty involves learning all their lives. Another question is that you don't always want to clog your head and so knowing the principle of operation of the "miracle of modern technology", especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above using the example of engines. And all this was supposed for a long time back in the furry 1980s, just now the elementary and other technical base has matured.
PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give recommendations later or make new standards.

Well here is the simplest example.
Old school piston engines.
And then a sleeveless engine appears.
He is brought to the Central Automobile Plant.
And there is a collapse.

How so, this does not happen.

Or bring a new engine.
And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
And again the collapse of thought.
No one understands anything.

They see that which cannot be in principle.
This is unscientific.
So the technique does not work.

Tell you when it was?

And then what happened with these engines?

And yes, we still do not have such engines.

[Altona]

Quote: SovAr238A

Or bring a new engine.
And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
And again the collapse of thought.
No one understands anything.

------------------------
I don’t know, I haven’t come across such "engineers". At one time he wrote a diploma on axial piston pumps, ours bought a license for a German pump of the then Mannesmann-Rexroth (now probably Bosch-Rexroth), there the piston-connecting rod pairs were made a single piece of the “plunger-piston”, and the whole “scientific "The German base was clear, ours lacked, let's say, production culture, there was an outdated technical base.

[Altona]

Quote: SovAr238A

And yes, we still do not have such engines.

-------------------
If there are no such engines, then this is not at all the fault of the engineers, even if they are incomplete, but the fault of those who should develop the country's industry. For an engineer is not a craftsman, but an industry worker. For everything, it is necessary to create production facilities and related technologies so that all gaps, octane numbers, purification levels, Moth numbers, surface cleanliness and other parameters correspond to modern ones.
About the "outdated" material base. There was manual welding, we worked, semi-automatic machines appeared, we are working, inverter welders appeared, we are working. What is the problem? So it is with machine tools. In the universal machine there are mechanical drives, in the CNC-frequency converter, although there are also boxes with boxes. What are the problems? Learn G-codes? They are primitive since the time of King Peas. And so in everything.

[K-612-O]

And what about Gazelles and Lawns? They didn’t stop something, and even transferred the entire production line to GAZ

[Zaurbek]

And what? There, a line of diesels was made under a contract with the Austrians .... made on the Lawn and buses and some powerful 450-550 hp to the Urals and there is still a licensed YaMZ (Renault) 420 hp and on the Gazelle, as Kamins walked, so it goes. Another added VW TDI 2.0l diesel

[SovAr238A]

Quote: K-612-O

And what about Gazelles and Lawns? They didn’t stop something, and even transferred the entire production line to GAZ

Oh well...
You can immediately see the person who never bought or used Gazelles and Lawns ...

And military UAZs do not want to remember where half of the components are made in China, including manual transmission and the Republic of Kazakhstan ...
And about electronics

[x.andvlad]

Quote: Mitroha

What were you doing for ten years then?

We have "engines" from time immemorial a weak point.
It is hoped that over time he will still be replaced by a domestic engine.
But we have a whole JSC United Engine Corporation. But so far, apparently, they have not mastered even a copy.

[venik]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The Russian Ministry of Defense has new requirements, so the creators of the Orion UAV will further refine it.

=======
So three times - this three - ALREADY FURNISHED (after Syria).

[Sky strike fighter]

The Ministry of Defense has new requirements, under which Orion will be further developed.

[venik]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The Ministry of Defense has new requirements, under which Orion will be further developed.

=======
In fact, the Orion UAV was tested in Syria back in 2018 (that is, more than a year and a half ago!), After which it was sent back for revision. So, those put in the troops (which are discussed in the article) are already kind of like REFINED!

[Gray brother]

The maximum payload of the drone is 200 kilograms. The combat load of Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms.

Do not understand. Like this?
In the shock version, stokers work 2,5 times faster than shovels?

[mitroha]

As I understand it, either flight duration or combat load.

[vvvjak]

Quote: Gray Brother

Do not understand. Like this?

In the shock version, he does not need fuel for 24 hours of flight, so you can hang more missiles.

[Gray brother]

Quote: vvvjak

In the shock version, he does not need fuel for 24 hours of flight, so you can hang more missiles.

I didn’t think about it. Thanks.

[Sky strike fighter]

In the shock version, there are fewer sensors for reconnaissance and topography, there is most likely no reconnaissance radar in the X-band, therefore, space is released for combat load.

[vvvjak]

As I understand it, you're special. in aviation. Tell me what kind of missiles do you plan to use on UAVs?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: vvvjak

As I understand it, you're special. in aviation. Tell me what kind of missiles do you plan to use on UAVs?

Guided bombs of 25 kg and 50 kg. But most likely this is not all that will be on the strike version of the Orion UAV. The latest LMUR, which was created for use from attack helicopters, is also possible.

The complex consists of three samples of guided bombs - one 25 kg caliber and two 50 kg each. A spokesman for the Aviaavtomatika Design Bureau stated that a 25 kg bomb was dropped from Orion during testing.
In addition, the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation (KTRV) is also developing guided weapons for use with UAVs.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3278291.html

[vvvjak]

Well, I'm not aware of the bombs. It's just that the article says: "In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board." It became interesting what they were. If LMUR (tests of which TK "Zvezda" showed in 2019), then I'm afraid that they will have to wait for a long time.

[venik]

Quote: vvvjak

If LMUR (tests of which TK "Zvezda" showed in 2019), then I'm afraid that they will have to wait for a long time.

=======
If LMUR means "product 305" - then it is hardly very long:
".....The new Aviation Guided Missile Product 305 is being tested in combat in Syria. It is intended for use on the "Night Hunter" - an upgraded version of the Mi-28N helicopter..... "(https://profile.ru/news/protection/arms/novaya-rossijskaya-raketa-izdelie-305-proxodit-ispytaniya-v-sirii-134234/).
I suppose that this is something like amer's JAGM - "fire and forget".

[tarakan]

The phrase "shot and forgot" is always pinned, just save the check (joke)

[Gray brother]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

In the shock version there are fewer sensors for reconnaissance, topography

Such nonsense now even fits into "Orlan", at least a camera for three-dimensional shooting fits exactly.

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

there is probably no intelligence radar in the X-band

I hope that this is not so, a drummer with a radar is much better than a drummer without a radar. I am more impressed by the version with fuel)))

[venik]

Quote: Gray Brother

Such nonsense now even fits into "Orlan", at least a camera for three-dimensional shooting fits exactly.

========
Besides the electron-optical terrain mapping equipment (they really learned how to make it quite compact), there’s a whole bunch of other intelligence equipment (including probably radio-technical intelligence equipment, etc., etc.), which also It has its own dimensions and weight (maybe pretty decent).

[alone]

In principle, a strike BLPA must simultaneously scout, survey and scan the terrain, find targets and destroy them ... it turns out that the first BLPA flies first, scouts, and then the striker rises?

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

there’s probably no X-band intelligence radar,

[venik]

Quote: lonely

It turns out that at first another BLPA flies, scouts, and then the drummer rises?

======
Why not? The version is quite imagined ..... It’s possible that even in pairs they can fly: what the scout found is a drummer and hit ....
Perhaps even a "drummer" will be able to work according to satellite reconnaissance data ... Although here - I will not vouch - it is difficult and in time too ...

[alone]

Quote: venik

Why not? The version is quite imagined ..... It’s possible that even in pairs they can fly: what the scout found is a drummer and hit ....

The process that you described, similar drummers from other countries do on their own.

[venik]

Quote: lonely

The process that you described, similar drummers from other countries do on their own.

========
Not all! The same Israelis (recognized specialists in UAVs) often use the "reconnaissance-drummer" combination, and the Turks seem to do the same. In general, for relatively light "middle class" UAVs, such a scheme may be optimal. There you will simply have to sacrifice something: either a missile and bomb load or target detection capabilities.
But for the heavy drones - there is YES! "Two in one" - optimum! The same MQ-9 Reaper is there with a maximum take-off weight of almost 5 tons (!) - a carrying capacity of 1.7 tons (!!) and the weapon system is where to place ....

[tarakan]

Wow death star turns out and by weight too

[Gray brother]

Quote: NordUral

That fuel per hour flight can only take (about 450 liters).

Why is this? Your consumption is indicated in grams per horsepower so to find out the consumption in kilograms you need to multiply 90 by 210, you get 18 kg with copecks. 450 divided by 18 will be 25 - this is a clock.
Everything seems to be right.

[Doccor18]

A shock drone is good!
Test on the battlefield and hundreds in the videoconferencing! But it’s interesting when UAVs start to shoot down each other?

[mitroha]

Yeah, hundreds ..

Austrian Rotax Turbo Engine

[venik]

Quote: Doccor18

But it’s interesting when UAVs start to shoot down each other?

=========
So already !!!

Source: "Almaz-Antey has developed a drone with a shotgun for hunting UAVs" (https://habr.com/ru/news/t/446274/)
Even on VO it was: "A video of testing a" flying carbine "appeared on the Web" (https://topwar.ru/156001-v-seti-pojavilos-video-ispytanij-letajuschego-karabina.html).
The video showed how he shot down another light despilot (though not from the first run). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMYeCHbY3g)

[APASUS]

The good news is very! But again, there was a fly in the ointment, the Orion UAV had an imported Rotax 914 engine. Who would let us build serious aircraft in the event of a conflict?

[Fedor Sokolov]

The Russian APD-110/120 engine is being developed for Orion!

[venik]

Quote: Fedor Sokolov

The Russian APD-110/120 engine is being developed for Orion!

=======
so it seems that it has already been developed and tested and is now preparing for mass production. It's a pity that the article does not say which engines are installed on the transferred Orions - Rotax or already APD?

[Fedor Sokolov]

This is very pleasing, it is time to catch up, otherwise I was very ashamed of the situation in Idlib that we could not give the Turks an asymmetric answer.

[Zaurbek]

Recently, unknown UAVs bombed a pro-Turkish formation there ... not Orions?

[Fedor Sokolov]

No! For "Orions" have been produced so far only a few units and they are just beginning to enter service with the Russian Aerospace Forces.

[Zaurbek]

But there was news, the first formation with the orions was sent to Syria

[sanik2020]

Do not understand. Like this?
In the shock version, stokers work 2,5 times faster than shovels?

Rather, it will be another machine or modification, in this form, such a load will not pull.
The question is different, what radar visibility of this device, and in the event of a serious war, it will not even reach the front line, they will notice and bring it down over its own rear.

[Zaurbek]

In "Military acceptance" showed a couple of dimensions of the UAV. One is generally Reaper type in size.

[knn54]

Something the Greeks are silent.

[NordUral]

Finally, though small, but at least such to begin with.

[andrew42]

Good news, but, as always, this is not enough. When the Russian engine is "installed" and not "developed", then it will become a weapon. Until then, NO. Otherwise, everything ends with the well-known verses "the enemy enters the city, sparing the prisoners, because there was no nail in the forge."

[Zan]

alegro (leonid) AAAAA, ......... Everything is gone .... We will all die

[Svetlana]

Quote: alegro

Leading Aircraft Power we were in the recent past, now unfortunately we are not

In the recent past, Russia as an independent subject of international law did not exist.

[Piramidon]

Russian Army received the first three UAV "Orion" ....
... After test flights, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation had additional wishes that were not originally included in the terms of reference. Therefore, the UAVs were returned to the Kronstadt group of companies for revision.

Maybe I didn’t understand something, but it turns out that now the Ministry of Defense does not have them yet, and they are not accepted for service. At least until the completion of improvements.

[Oleg1]

In addition: for the eyes of those who are always happy to find even a small speck in the eye ... we have:
The engine on the Rotax 914 prototype with 86 kW (115 hp), equipped with a turbocharger to increase altitude. The two-blade screw AV-115 with a diameter of 1,9 meters is manufactured by Aerosila. For serial production, the Agat company, in cooperation with TsIAM, is developing the Russian APD-110/120 engine. Currently, the engine has successfully completed testing and entered mass production. The APD-110/120 (Agat-B) is designed for 120 hp. This is an opposed four-cylinder engine with combined cooling (liquid - for cylinder heads, air - for cylinder shirts), has spark ignition and electronically controlled distributed fuel injection, is equipped with a turbocharger and a reduction gear.

http://putc.org/amerikanskie-bpla-atakuyut/

[Thrifty]

With a ton of weight, he will pull 450kg of bombs far? There are no errors in the numbers by accident? ??

[_Ugene_]

The combat load of Orion in the shock version can reach 450 kilograms. In particular, the new drone is capable of carrying four missiles on board.

And what exactly of high-precision air-to-ground missiles do we have in this weight category? in my opinion nothing

[Gray brother]

Quote: _Ugene_

And what exactly of high-precision air-to-ground missiles do we have in this weight category? in my opinion nothing

In the special exposition of the “Innovation Club” within the framework of the 3rd International Military-Technical Forum “Army-2017” at the booth of OKB Aviaavtomatika LLC (Kursk), a new aviation weapons complex for UAVs (KAVB) is presented. Work is being carried out jointly with VAIS-Technika LLC (Zhukovsky).

These are bombs, as I understand it. But it's hot that you can stick the engine.

According to Aviaavtomatika OKB company representatives, the ammunition family was built on a modular basis with a single structural base. The presented samples of aviation weapons are unified among themselves according to the transverse size of the fuselage (the length of the fuselage may be different) and the tail. It is possible to install a fixed x-shaped wing or a large-span wing opening in flight (gliding ammunition). One of the UAAS samples is equipped with a thermal imaging guidance system. Perhaps the use of a small engine.

Ammunition masses, according to the developers, range from 25 to 50 kg. Launch range - up to 100 km. As warheads, the use of small-sized combat elements from MLRS shells is supposed. The suspension device is also unified.

[Sky strike fighter]

Up to 100 km? Decent. Good news.

[_Ugene_]

it's all prototypes, we don’t have anything serial in this class yet

[Gray brother]

Quote: _Ugene_

we don’t have anything serial in this class yet

So nowhere to hang.

[_Ugene_]

so it’s like an article about what is already where to hang

[Gray brother]

Quote: _Ugene_

so it’s like an article about what is already where to hang

So it does not say what exactly the MO wants and in what quantity. Maybe they need clean scouts.

[yfast]

Why bombs and not rockets?

[Varaga]

Guided bombs can be dropped from very high heights. Whereas rockets are deprived of such an opportunity.

[Varaga]

Comrades members of the forum, I am the only one to see that the shape of the nose of our "Orion" vividly resembles that of the Pin-dos Reaper?

[Courier]

Riper's nose has a hump.

[Varaga]

Yes. But still, in general, it is very similar to him.

[Galleon]

Judging by the characteristics given in the comments, the commerce managed to enter the military long-range reconnaissance without a satellite communication channel, because during a flight of 24 hours the range of 250 km is due to the radio horizon at the maximum flight height and maximum antenna height of the operator’s kung. And the operator’s post itself remained vulnerable in the armed confrontation of a technically equipped enemy.
It's a pity. Really sorry! I was already happy, I thought that we had achieved our first real UAV with satellite communications, and there would have been such a regiment in each VO and a squadron in the fleet, and here: 24 hours ... 250 km ... then eat ...
Okay, wait.
The name, by the way, is good. The American R-3 Orion is a wonderful patrol aircraft, how many times it met. His special calling card was cruising with one engine shut off.
I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Galleon

I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.

You do not send a line by mail?

[Galleon]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Galleon

I wish our Orion flying qualities and aviation longevity no worse than that of its bourgeois namesake.

You do not send a line by mail?

Oh, my bosom friend quickened! Could say hello. Perhaps, yes, send me in a personal marine navigating ruler with a protractor, and you can also a drawing workshop. Don’t hang around there - they themselves suggested.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Galleon

send me in a personal navigational ruler with a protractor, and you can also a drawing workshop. Don’t hang around there - they themselves suggested.

I can only send Chinese with wrong millimeters (almost 20 cm.))) Green.

[Galleon]

Quote: Gray Brother

I can only send Chinese with wrong millimeters (almost 20 cm.))) Green.

Sergey, for some reason, I thought that the whole offer would end with Chinese centimeters No, thanks.
But seriously, I evaluate this apparatus primarily as the former ... And it is clear that its reconnaissance range is well enough for the use of the RZSO Smerch, but in the operational respect it is already lacking. And it could be enough for his characteristics, if he had this communication channel that got his teeth on edge - that’s what is the most pity.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Galleon

but in operational terms it is already missing. And it could have sufficed with its characteristics, if he had this communication channel, which had fallen on edge, that’s the pity most.

This is not for him, this is probably for Altair. As for the satellite constellation, the question is also not the last one, I don't even know if the devices there are generally suitable.

[501 Legion]

Russia probably should have analogues of the American halfer. why not attach pylons for 2-4 missiles.

[Gray brother]

Quote: 501Legion

Russia probably should have analogues of the American halfer. why not attach pylons for 2-4 missiles.

There are anti-tank helicopters. But there is its own guidance system - it will have to be integrated, and it is imprisoned for sighting systems of large machines.

[Alexey-74]

This is a significant event in the RF Armed Forces !!! "Orion" will run in, improve, give good experience and a base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)

[Gray brother]

Quote: Alexey-74

"Orion" will run in, improve, give good experience and a base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)

It was announced that it will connect with the Su-57 (and not only), just like the Hunter.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alexey-74

This is a significant event in the RF Armed Forces !!! "Orion" will run in, improve, give good experience and a base (practical) for the future S-70 drummer (Hunter)

They have different application concepts, different management concepts ...

He will not give anything.

Does a tractor driver plowman really help his experience and skills when landing him in a Formula 1 car and vice versa ... ?????

[Tavrik]

Quote: Galleon

the merchants managed to enter into the military a long-range reconnaissance aircraft without a satellite communication channel,

Why did you manage to get in? What they ordered, they realized. Everyone understands perfectly well that a satellite channel needs a serious satellite-repeater resource, plus compact and lightweight phased arrays or parabolas with all high-frequency "strapping". Plus a bunch of other problems. And all this will shift the terms of work and its price HZ where. And the product is needed "here and now". So they did it to a minimum.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Tavrik

Quote: Galleon

the merchants managed to enter into the military a long-range reconnaissance aircraft without a satellite communication channel,

Why did you manage to get in? What they ordered, they realized. Everyone understands perfectly well that a satellite channel needs a serious satellite-repeater resource, plus compact and lightweight phased arrays or parabolas with all high-frequency "strapping". Plus a bunch of other problems. And all this will shift the terms of work and its price HZ where. And the product is needed "here and now". So they did it to a minimum.

Those. They didn’t make fish or meat.
It’s pointless to release an empty craft. He cannot fulfill the required modern tasks. Just can not.

[Tavrik]

Well, we practiced ... "I won't catch up, at least I will keep warm!" With such a range and duration, why is it better, for example, the Orlan, which has been flying for a long time, is it cheaper and more compact? Is that like a strike aircraft.

[da Vinci]

Unfortunately, the RQ-4 Global Hawk is still very far away.

[Cheerock]

Quote: SovAr238A

Quote: Altona

Quote: SovAr238A

And if you studied and worked on an obsolete equipment, then when you see a new engineering idea, you will look at it as an alien monster ...

What (the emotions of retarded technical engineers) I have seen more than once ...

--------------------------
If the basic knowledge is normal, then the materiel has nothing to do with it. And how do you understand "technically retarded engineers"? There are engineers who have not completed their studies, because the specialty involves learning all their lives. Another question is that you don't always want to clog your head and so knowing the principle of operation of the "miracle of modern technology", especially since there are sometimes no miracles, as you described above using the example of engines. And all this was supposed for a long time back in the furry 1980s, just now the elementary and other technical base has matured.
PS As for "reverse engineering", it was usually done by research institutes with the involvement of scientists. We studied everything thoroughly in order to give recommendations later or make new standards.

Well here is the simplest example.
Old school piston engines.
And then a sleeveless engine appears.
He is brought to the Central Automobile Plant.
And there is a collapse.

How so, this does not happen.

Or bring a new engine.
And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
And hang out like glasses in a pencil.
And again the collapse of thought.
No one understands anything.

They see that which cannot be in principle.
This is unscientific.
So the technique does not work.

Tell you when it was?

And then what happened with these engines?

And yes, we still do not have such engines.

*** And then a sleeveless engine appears.
It is brought to the TsNT of the automobile plant. And there is a collapse. *** - ICE "without a sleeve" has been known since the Stone Age. The same VAZ-2101 was without sleeves. If you are talking about "nikasil" for aluminum, then this is also a long-known topic and in the 50s it was not surprising to anyone.

*** And there the pistons are 3 times smaller than the "usual" ones.
And hang out like glasses in a pencil. *** - but tell us how it was, yes. Evolution was exactly the opposite - from alloys with a high degree of linear expansion and large gaps, compensated by heating parts of the CPG to heat-resistant composite pistons with a ceramic bottom to minimize thermal gaps.

[TermNachTer]

And Bandera's dill ditched the first "Bayraktar". Today in Starokonstantinov there is either a hard landing or a controlled fall. Details are not yet available.

[nnz226]

Will they test in Syria ?!

[Chaldon48]

Interestingly sometime drones will appear capable of taking on board at least a platoon of parachutists?