Flood: from west to east

Global flood. Fresco in the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo's work

And the water on the earth intensified tremendously, so that all the high mountains, which are under the whole heaven, were covered; fifteen cubits water rose above them, and mountains were covered. And all flesh moving on the earth, and birds, and cattle, and animals, and all the reptiles crawling on the ground, and all people, lost their lives; all that had the breath of the spirit of life in their nostrils on land died. Every creature that was on the surface of the earth was destroyed; from man to cattle, and reptiles, and birds of the air, everything was destroyed from the earth, only Noah remained and that [was] with him in the ark.
Genesis 7: 17-23

Historical science against pseudoscience. We continue our story about the Flood, today we would like to slightly change the vector of the story and again indulge in memories of childhood and youth, and memories that are directly related to our topic. And it so happened that somewhere in the year 1964 in the almanac “The World of Adventures” I read the work of Alexander Gorbovsky “Fourteen Millennia ago” (World of Adventures. Moscow: Children's Literature, 1963. Book 9. P. 369-420). Read very seriously affected my fragile baby soul. In fact, for the first time I came across an alternative history of mankind, which was also served very skillfully, and ... became an ardent admirer of it. Where are today's supporters of the Tartarian Rus, including Fomenko and K! I saw that the truth was revealed to me in its pure form, which others ... simply do not want to see. However, the last straw to break the back of a camel was an article in the journal Technika - Youth by science fiction writer Alexander Kazantsev. I’ve already watched the movie “Planet of the Storms” by this time, I’ve already read the book “The Grandsons of Mars,” and then this article. In general, I’m like ... well, I won’t write specifically to anyone, demolished my head completely and brought out the last brains. I immediately began to collect all the facts confirming all these fabrications. I quoted Gorbovsky’s book by heart and prepared a lecture for the younger schoolchildren “The Mysteries of the Ancient Earth”. It went with a bang! And then there was Kazantsev’s novel “Faets” in the magazine “Seeker” and the film “Memoirs of the Future” by Erich von Deniken arrived. In a word, everything turned out one to one.

Here is the beginning of this article in the journal "Technology - Youth"

And then studying at a university, and giving lectures along the lines of OK Komsomol. One lecture, so to speak, “for the glory of the party and government”, but the second was allowed to be chosen at the request of the lecturer. Well, I chose! Presented all the materials, read to the "responsible employees", they approved, and things went! True, at that time these “revelatory” lectures were somehow treated with great, I would say, understanding. And tolerance, or something ... Well, there is such an opinion, and there is. Interesting, but no more. That is, no one has blamed scientists for deceiving and hiding any secrets. Here it is: “They study!” Here is a movie, here is an article, here is a book, here is a lecture. And when they asked me why “they” didn’t arrive again, I blamed everything on Einstein’s paradox and said in a grave voice: “We are still flying back!” It really worked! But then he began to study, saw that everything is banal explanation, and “put” it on the aliens completely. Still, specialized comprehensive education is a thing!

Next page…

As for Gorbovsky, he wrote many books, including the Riddles of Ancient History (1966), The Abducted Minds (1969), The Year 2000 onwards (1978), and Without a Single Shot, in line with the paradoxical tradition and little-studied phenomena. From the history of Russian military intelligence ”(together with Julian Semenov, 1983),“ Closed pages of history ”(together with Julian Semenov, 1988),“ Facts, conjectures, hypotheses ”(1988),“ Prophets and seers in their Fatherland ”(1990 ), “Other Worlds” (1991), “Secret Power, Invisible Power” (1991), “Sorcerers, Healers, Prophets” (1993), and each of them them in their own meaningful and interesting. And now with his view of the Flood we will meet today.

The last page…

It is interesting that the description of the flood among many peoples coincides with the text in the Bible, although they never read it. It says that “water covered the earth for fifteen cubits”, but even in Maya the same fifteen cubits appear in the flood story. The Aztecs also had their Noah, only their name was Nata, and he also escaped because the god Titlacahuan had warned him about this misfortune in advance and advised: “Don’t make any more wine from agave, but start hammering the trunk of a large cypress and enter it when in the month of Tozontli, water will reach heaven. ” When later Nata ended, and his wife lit a fire, and they began to fry fish on it. The gods were angry that someone was saved and wanted to complete the destruction of the human tribe, but Titlacahuan stood up for them and thereby saved them a second time.

Well, in the Bible, Noah also makes a fire and, by the smell of smoke from the sacrificial fire, God finds out that some people were saved. But biblical myths are thought to date back to the Babylonian, earlier sources. And here the similarities are even greater. The gods “gathered like flies” to the smell of the victim, and just like their fellow gods from Mexico, they got angry and decided to destroy all the saved people. But the god Ea, who warned the righteous Whitnapishtim and his wife about the flood, stood up for them. Noah, to find out if the flood ended, let out a raven and a dove. And he repeated it three times. But the Indians of the West Indies and Mexico are all the same, and in the end one of the birds also brings a green branch in its beak. In clay tablets with the text of the epic about Gilgamesh there is a mention of the rainbow, heralding the end of the flood. But even in the book “Chilam Balam,” the Mayan priests wrote about the flood: “And a rainbow appeared in the sky, which meant that everything on earth was destroyed.” And here is another Toltec tradition from Mexico: “After the few people survived after the flood, and after they had time to multiply, they built a tall tower ... But their tongues suddenly mixed up, they could no longer understand each other and went to live to different parts of the earth. " For the Jews, this tower was called Ba Bel (hence Babylon), which means the “Gate of God.” But in America, this tower is also called the "Gate of God", although phonetically it sounds differently.

But this impressive picture did not leave anyone indifferent in 1968. I mean readers of TM. That's just, A. Kazantsev himself was in this case not up to par. Although he brought a drawing of a plate from the temple in Palenque, but did not arrange it correctly, one should not look at it that way. And besides, he didn’t use his own photo, but a reprint from Deniken’s book, and he ... just added a little black here with playful pens, put together the details there, and that’s how he got out ... a rocket. If Kazantsev could visit Palenque and take pictures of everything there, he would see that there is a big difference between Deniken’s drawing and the original of the stove, and then he wouldn’t succeed with the Mayan rocket!

“Even the mountains hid under the water,” the Mesoamerican Indians write about the flood. And the Indians of Peru report that "there was such a great flood that the sea came out of its shores, the land was flooded and all people died ... Water rose above the highest mountains." There are similar messages and the peoples of Africa. But the Greeks described the flood as the result of the action of two gods: Zeus and Poseidon, who worked together. But here's what is interesting: among the Persians in the Zend-Oveste book it was written that “water throughout the earth stood at the height of human growth ...” That is, its level was much lower than in America. While in China there are myths that say that when a disaster struck the earth, the waters not only did not flood the land (as it was in America), but also in Africa and Europe, but, on the contrary, sailed away from the coast in the direction southeast. That is, it turns out that something like a huge tsunami was running around the globe, and if somewhere the wave hid the mountains, then, accordingly, there was an ebb on the opposite side. And the height of the flood was decreasing all the time: in Central America it reached the tops of high mountains, in Greece it was at the height of hills and tall trees, and in Persia it stood only at the level of human growth.

About the coming Flood warned. Gods, as well as some other people who knew about him in advance. And not just warned, but advised to build towers, high towers, and to escape in them. For example, the Indians of Arizona and Mexico say that before the catastrophe, a great man named Montezuma built a tall tower, but it was destroyed by God. Legends of the Sierra Nevada Indians tell about the aliens who built high stone towers. In Hawaii, and now there are strange pyramidal mounds, called "places of salvation", where the ancestors of the Hawaiians allegedly escaped from the flood. In the Vedas, it is also written about shelters where it was required to collect "sheep, and cows, and birds, and dogs, and a red flaming fire."

Well, Arab scholars, in particular Abu Balkhi (IX-X centuries A.D.), wrote that pyramids were built specifically for protection from the flood in Lower Egypt. However, our local "sages" wrote about the same thing. So, twenty years ago, in one of our Penza newspapers it was written that a firefighter from Mokshan (one of our regional centers) was fond of history and believed that the pyramids in Egypt were built as ... breakwaters. To protect against the tidal wave, which, of course, will occur when the waters of the oceans fill the mine workings made by unreasonable people, and the voids from pumping oil, and the globe will tip over on its side. I remember, then I looked at the calendar: is not April the first hour? But no! I had to write a response material ...

This is how the tidal wave of the Flood moved, and the red circles mark the places where legendary information was most preserved about it

Well, if without laughter, then yes, the Flood could well be an echo of some global catastrophe caused by the fall of a large cosmic body, well, let's say into the Pacific Ocean, and it fell along a very gentle trajectory, going from West to East. The blow fell on the central part of the Pacific Ocean, and the resulting wave continued to move by inertia and flooded Central and South America, spread across the Atlantic and reached Africa and Europe, but was already quite low in the region of Greece and Iran. But the sea from the coast of China really "left". But is it really so, today it is unlikely to be able to confirm with a high degree of accuracy.

So, as you can see, dear readers of VO, we began to consider the problem of the Flood in our country a long time ago, back in the days of the USSR. But still not particularly advanced, so to speak, on a global scale. Mankind has had a lot more pressing tasks! Therefore, for any fantasies, today we have complete expanse!

To be continued ...

Comments

[Rurikovich]

At one time I told myself that I would not comment on Shpakovsky, but I could not resist. But not because this is an article by Shpakovsky, but because any official science is an orthodox within a framework invented for himself. Well, that’s nothing else! Especially the story of archeology Well, okay, these very alternative people really THINKED ANYTHING from scratch, but for the most part they are based on new data on history, discoveries that have appeared especially recently, to which historians and archaeologists have no answers. Or they cannot attract these answers to your own concept. Therefore, all unnecessary is hiding in the storerooms, because any fresh views are declared heresy, because there is persecution of any dissenters. Therefore, historians and archaeologists refuse to believe in biologists, chemists, engineers, metallurgists, because discoveries and discoveries in these areas completely refute the OFFICIAL version of history. you are fools, and we are scientists.
So historians give the question of alternatives and others who disagree - "HOW?" your answer is "BECAUSE" .....
Personally, my opinion

[Pessimist22]

And what new data and discoveries are there that scientists cannot explain?

[Bar1]

Quote: Pessimist22

And what new data and discoveries are there that scientists cannot explain?

for example, here is Ivan Sudebnik3, Article On St. George's Day.
Academic respect that the peasants are allowed once a year in Yuryev too lazy to move from place to place.
And here is what is actually written in the Sudebnik.
About Christian denial.
Refuses to Christians from Issech volost to the village one term in a year
a completely different meaning
Not peasants, but Christians are not allowed, but refuse.

[Pessimist22]

Well, this is some kind of legal incident and not a scientific one.

[Bar1]

Quote: Pessimist22

Well, this is some kind of legal incident and not a scientific one.

like a trifle, like an incident. Well, yes there is still the opinion that failure is not failure, but something else.

First of all, it’s a lie. Those. Academic science lies impudently and says that this law actually says there. But what is the point, the Christians refuse to go from the volost to the village one term a year. Why exactly the Christians? So it’s not possible for Christians to cross, but then who is it? So, let’s say to the Old Believers / schismatics later on.
Secondly, we are talking about serfdom - this is the most heinous and disgusting phenomenon in Russian history, and these historians dragged it to Ivan Sudebnik by 1487 although, as a phenomenon, this arose much later from Alexei Mikhailovich to Peter3. This means that historians simply hide something.
It turns out that our story is a lie, and therefore our life is so contradictory.

[Varyag_0711]

Bar1 (Timur)
So, let’s say to the Old Believers / schismatics later on.

What "Old Believers" and schismatics during the time of Ivan III? At all the roof went on the basis of alternative?

[nickname7]

The author made a mistake in arguing about the concept мир, the author, having knowledge of the 21st century, has in mind a spherical earth, but people of the time of Babylon did not know about spherical shape and by the world they meant the place in which they lived. River spills, floods a common occurrence recently was in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, a major flood was in St. Petersburg in 1824, etc.
There was no flood, but there were floods in Mesopotamia, about which legends were created, in particular the legend of Gigalmesh, which was retold in the Bible.

[alebor]

Refuses to Christians from Issech volost to the village one term in a year
a completely different meaning Not peasants, but Christians are not allowed, but refused.

-This is a typical case when an amateur who does not have professional and systematic knowledge of the subject begins to reason and comes to absolutely incredible conclusions. But everything is simple here. As for the etymology of the word "peasants", then everyone understands. And here is what the dictionary of the Old Russian language tells us about the Old Russian word "give up": "In the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries - the transition from one owner to another within a certain period of time (about peasants) ...." And many people began to give up Prince Yury for the Grand Duke and went to Kolomna without stopping, but I saw him "..." My father hegumen Kasian beat me with his forehead ... but he says that people of monastery silverware and ladles and ordinary people are denied him ... not about Yuryev's days, others about the Nativity of Christ, others about Peter's days ... "". This dictionary, by the way, is freely available on the Internet. Why not look into it first?

[Bar1]

Quote: alebor

Refuses to Christians from Issech volost to the village one term in a year
a completely different meaning Not peasants, but Christians are not allowed, but refused.

-This is a typical case when an amateur who does not have professional and systematic knowledge of the subject begins to reason and comes to absolutely incredible conclusions. But everything is simple here. As for the etymology of the word "peasants", then everyone understands. And here is what the dictionary of the Old Russian language tells us about the Old Russian word "give up": "In the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries - the transition from one owner to another within a certain period of time (about peasants) ...." And many people began to give up Prince Yury for the Grand Duke and went to Kolomna without stopping, but I saw him "..." My father hegumen Kasian beat me with his forehead ... but he says that people of monastery silverware and ladles and ordinary people are denied him ... not about Yuryev's days, others about the Nativity of Christ, others about Peter's days ... "". This dictionary, by the way, is freely available on the Internet. Why not look into it first?

arctic fox, here’s another clever man. I’m citing the source. but he doesn’t want to say anything on it, but it’s giving some kind of link, but a gag.
link to the studio for starters.

[Bar1]

but it’s already clear
- refuse - to bequeath. We have already talked about this; we substitute bequests in the text of the article.
-About the Christian testament?
It is bequeathed to Christians from the volost in the village of Issekh one term in a year.!? - Nonsense. Does not fall in my reverence, nor in the academic.
Well, why wouldn’t the wise men first read, everything is complete, and not engage in petty lies on the forum?

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Bar1

but it’s already clear
- refuse - to bequeath. We have already talked about this; we substitute bequests in the text of the article.
-About the Christian testament?
It is bequeathed to Christians from the volost in the village of Issekh one term in a year.!? - Nonsense. Does not fall in my reverence, nor in the academic.

The fact that your nonsense and academic reading are two incompatible things is understandable. But why doesn't your delirium fit into your own paradigm? The riddle ...

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Bar1

I give the source. But on it he does not want to say anything

Do you read the source without a dictionary, guided only by chaotic noises, in the interaural cavity?
Comrade alebor, in my opinion, gave you a specific translation:

Quote: alebor

And here is what the dictionary of the Old Russian language tells us about the Old Russian word "refuse": "In the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries - the transition from one owner to another within a time period specified by law (about peasants) ..

But, apparently, your alternatively gifted brain is not able to see anything other than your own "brilliant" ideas.

Quote: Bar1

link to the studio for starters.

Do you want links? I have them!
DISCLAIMER - go.
http://oldrusdict.ru/dict.html

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: alebor

And here is what the dictionary of the Old Russian language tells us about the Old Russian word "refuse

Quote: HanTengri

Do you want links? I have them!

Thank you, colleagues, otherwise my hand is already tired of refuting this nonsense from time to time.
Most of all, I am touched by such a naive and holy confidence of a person that very few people have read this code of law before him, and those who have read it are completely scammers and "hide" it. I passed the test on it as part of the course "History of State and Law", and together with me there was a certain number of young men and women, very intelligent, ambitious and greedy for discoveries ... And they knew this code of law almost by heart ... And so it happens annually throughout the country. And of the many thousands of people who study this source every year, only he read it our Bar and correctly understood its meaning.
Guys, I envy this man in a good way. A sort of "chevalier san per e san cervel".

[Bar1]

Quote: HanTengri

Do you want links? I have them!
DISCLAIMER - go.
http://oldrusdict.ru/dict.html

this is not enough dude, then the meaning is
Christians move from Issheh volost to the village once a year.

the meaning is also distorted. They don’t say it because it’s not clear. The problem arises in reading the word _isshe_, which is read as it has disappeared, but it is clearly seen that the letter _x_ is exactly the letter x, and not _l_, below you can compare the letter_x_ with the same the letter in the word christians below.
And besides, it makes sense to refuse to go over ONLY in Srednevsky’s dictionary, and it’s precisely for this law on St. George’s Day, as it’s specially done, it doesn’t have such a meaning in other sources. Can you find it?

[gsev]

Quote: Bar1

. I give the source

Language changes over time. Legal terms too. "10 years without the right to correspond" only 80 years ago meant the death penalty. The absence in the biography of a famous person of the times of the USSR when published before 1989 meant execution or death in custody.

[Simargl]

Quote: alebor

Why not look into it first?

So it’s not interesting: the alternative does not work.
And in order to engage in quality history, you need to read a lot about ... oh the languages. And they differ, even though, it seems, Russian is written in white .. But the Zadornov case lives on.

[nickname7]

. a completely different meaning
Not peasants, but Christians are not allowed, but refuse.

Refuses it is a synonym not allowed.
A word peasant derived from the word Christian
There is no other meaning here, only the ignoramus misled himself.

[kalibr]

Dear Andrey Nikolaevich!

Quote: Rurikovich

for discoveries and discoveries in these areas completely refute the OFFICIAL version of history.

I have not heard of such ... And, by the way, the article is just about that. But the slab on it is "not the same", but yes, if all the lines are connected with black, then it "refutes", I agree.
But, by the way, if such discoveries and discoveries are really known to you - write about them! Nobody will expose you to wit here, quite the opposite ...

[Normal ok]

In fact, new data over time changes orthodox views. This applies to any area of ​​human activity. Once this process was slow, now everything happens much faster. Regarding the story. Just 150 years ago, historians considered the story of the Trojan War, and many biblical stories, pure fiction. But with the increasing number of archaeological discoveries, views have changed. Statistical material is accumulated, then a breakthrough occurs. Alternative specialists run ahead of the engine.

[Undecim]

At one time I told myself that I would not comment on Shpakovsky
And you try not to comment on Shpakovsky, but the topic in the article.
any official science is an orthodox within a framework invented for itself
That's for sure. Here, orthodox mathematicians put the framework around the multiplication table - and that’s it. But how many options are offered even by students in the classroom! But they are all swept away by orthodox mathematicians!
on new especially recent history data, discoveries to which historians and archaeologists have no answers
To begin with, it would be good to give examples of "new data and discoveries" that historians and archaeologists cannot explain. Moreover, not in the presentation of Samsonov or, God forgive me, Bara, but from the primary sources.
As for the lack of answers to the questions of the universe from scientists, this is completely normal. It has always been that way. Human knowledge is relative, and at each stage of its development, science had questions to which it sought answers, sometimes for a very long time, and did not find some today.
And the same exact sciences, which techies love to cite as an example to historians - humanitarians, have come a long way in evolution, but even today the finish is still very far and there are many questions for which there are no answers yet, and some answers are, let's say, temporary . As an example, I’ll give a compromise in which the model of an idealized deformable body is taken as the calculation model and almost ten assumptions are made regarding the properties of materials and deformations, although everything seems to be known about structural materials.
Why do you deny the right to have assumptions to historians?
Therefore, all unnecessary is hiding in the storerooms, because any fresh views are declared heresy, because there is persecution of any dissenters. Therefore, historians and archaeologists refuse to believe in biologists, chemists, engineers, metallurgists, because discoveries and discoveries in these areas completely refute the OFFICIAL version of history. you are fools, and we are scientists.
Again, it would be nice to give first-hand examples.
And one more thing - what are the historical primary sources, i.e. not popular science and unscientific books, but the works of professional historians on historical problematic issues Have you read?

[Bar1]

Quote: Undecim

And you try not to comment on Shpakovsky, but the topic in the article.

Well, then why didn’t you want to discuss the previous topic, are you more interested in personal issues?

[Undecim]

In every question, Timur, there are exceptions that confirm the rule.
Since this is an opportunity, I will take this opportunity and clarify my position.
I personally have no negative emotions for you in the universal, personal plan. All my questions and epithets to you relate exclusively to your historical concepts and do not go beyond our discussion.
I fully admit that if we met during the discussion of any other issue, our views would coincide and no contradictions would arise.

[Bar1]

Quote: Undecim

I personally have no negative emotions for you in the universal, personal plan.

not bad, but only in one part of your story, and then what is it?

Moreover, not in the presentation of Samsonov or, God forgive me, Bara, but from the original sources.

with an unarmed gaze, disrespect can be seen, moreover, behind the eyes, and this is no longer beautiful.
And most importantly, I’m just trying to speak on the basis of the primary sources, but I am accused, just of another. However, for a long time everything has been clear to me what kind of audience is here.

On the topic, the theory of catastrophe, which the author raised here already in our country is developed to impossibility, it is enough to watch REN TV once. You begin to wonder how it is that we generally live, when everything around is not solid.
But to refer in his articles to all kinds of under-investigators such as von Deniken is certainly not a science, but rather a fun for fragile minds.
However, there are quite interesting facts about the flood. For example, numerous examples of how in our cities there are so many buildings filled with ground floors. In general, academicians do not want to pay attention to this, there is no such phenomenon.

Kazan ul Bauman.

[Undecim]

with an unarmed gaze, disrespect can be seen, moreover, behind the eyes, and this is no longer beautiful.
Why "behind the eyes"? I have repeatedly expressed my attitude to your historical views both personally to you and publicly. Therefore, I do not see any "behind the eyes" here in relation to this issue.

[kalibr]

All these houses have design documentation. Who planned, who built, when with whose money, what thought, government, department ordered the project, with whom they agreed, which town governor signed ... What else is needed?

[Bar1]

Quote: kalibr

All these houses have design documentation. Who planned, who built, when with whose money, what thought, government, department ordered the project, with whom they agreed, which town governor signed ... What else is needed?

those. Do you want to say that there is documentation about filling the ground floor of the building? Is this nonsense?

[kalibr]

Including raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc. Even the Duma’s decisions on planting greenery in the city and arranging drinking bowls for street dogs in the summer so that they would not rage with thirst. For the purchase of sewer manholes and flower tubs. And payroll workers who did it. In Penza, some streets from my childhood rose several meters. And everything has urban planning documentation. You simply never were in any archive therefore and write any nonsense.

[Fat]

Quote: kalibr

there is urban planning documentation for everything. You simply never were in any archive therefore and write any nonsense.

Vyacheslav Olegovich. The Trinity Lavra of St. Sergius is filled with 3-7 meters. The walls and structures were partially buried both from the inside of the walls and from the outside ... The lower loopholes of the walls, the first floors of buildings ... This happened not so long ago. Only that this man-made case could not be found. Maybe, of course, it was poorly searched. But maybe just the consequence of a powerful flood.

[kalibr]

Quote: Thick

Maybe, of course, it was poorly searched.

In any case, it was not God, the Devil, the aliens, or the inhabitants of Russia who launched the atomic war in 1780. Is not it?

[Fat]

Well ... this is the last thing that comes to mind ..)))

[AllBiBek]

Soil like fluid properties, are you up to date?

All dances with a foundation and other things are ways to slow down this process, but nothing more.

Soil formation has a lot of nuances, but in general - with the skills to read stratigraphy - everything is more or less clear.

Really no one has ever encountered the fact that, for example, abandoned equipment for several decades, so tangibly goes to the ground?

[Fat]

Quote: AllBiBek

Soil like fluid properties, are you up to date?

All dances with a foundation and other things are ways to slow down this process, but nothing more.

Soil formation has a lot of nuances, but in general - with the skills to read stratigraphy - everything is more or less clear.

Really no one has ever encountered the fact that, for example, abandoned equipment for several decades, so tangibly goes to the ground?

Somewhere "leaves" in another place and "bares itself" Spring flood ...
Big water leaves and each time gives away new secrets ... Reluctantly but gives ....
Let's not talk about "soils" only if you have never designed and built projects on "geology". Your "stratigraphy" was exported at best ...
The soil is the upper fertile layer .... The Foundation has a Foundation ... It is not in vain that I have it from the capital ... Maybe you will be an exceptional soil scientist and agronomist. But the soil and soils and bases according to SNiP are a big difference ... They do not build on the soil. The soil is being cleaned!

[AllBiBek]

Well, have you seen how the current carries logs? They dive there, you dive. This is a similar process, it's just a little more complicated.

Regarding the construction and other things - well, the ancient foundations and the remains of buildings of all types that are in the ground - believe me, I saw a lot.

Yes, in archeology everything is somewhat simplified in terms of what is considered the mainland (we have a layer in which there are no traces of human activity), but with all sorts of deposits, redeposition, sediments, and so on - from the point of view of how any human life activity is a familiar sign.

[Fat]

Yes. Anatoly, saw rafts and floods and alluvial ... This is construction geology. You rightly said "mainland" ... dividing with bulk soils.
Well, there is nothing to argue about. Is that the possible thickness of the "cultural layer"

[AllBiBek]

Why argue?

In the mountains it can reach up to hundreds or more (from the cave to the foot), on the plain - up to several dozen.

Especially if the place was distinguished by increased human activity. There, pavements were thrown once a year on top of last year, or for centuries they had been producing pots in one place. Novgorod and Bukhara, respectively, appear to be 16 and 20 meters or more from the surface to the pits in the mainland clay.

Well and - yes, centuries and centuries of intensive activity are needed. Or under a million years of natural processes.

[Fat]

Quote: AllBiBek

Why argue?

In the mountains it can reach up to hundreds or more (from the cave to the foot), on the plain - up to several dozen.

Especially if the place was distinguished by increased human activity. There, pavements were thrown once a year on top of last year, or for centuries they had been producing pots in one place. Novgorod and Bukhara, respectively, appear to be 16 and 20 meters or more from the surface to the pits in the mainland clay.

Well and - yes, centuries and centuries of intensive activity are needed. Or under a million years of natural processes.

One flood, a serious flood and "Alga" for a new ... A cultural continuous layer of 20-50 cm and that is rare ... And the pavements .. wooden ... well, my childhood ... all the time for a couple of years, then you wonder ... It was on the other side ... Well, it turned out I never caught the moment of transformation ... This is a miracle from childhood

[AllBiBek]

20-50 cm of the cultural layer is a medium-sized settlement of the Mesolithic-Neolithic-Bronze. Moreover, short-term, from half a century to a hundred and a little. The historical part of ANY city from the age of a quarter thousand - from one and a half meters and more. Not everywhere, of course, far from everywhere.

The cultural layer grows especially well after major fires, beauty is direct.

[Bar1]

Quote: kalibr

Including raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc. Even the Duma’s decisions on planting greenery in the city and arranging drinking bowls for street dogs in the summer so that they would not rage with thirst. For the purchase of sewer manholes and flower tubs. And payroll workers who did it. In Penza, some streets from my childhood rose several meters. And everything has urban planning documentation. You simply never were in any archive therefore and write any nonsense.

Do you want to say that it is on this house and the rest on the street of the same era that there are documents on filling the ground floor? Well then show. However, you certainly will not show, because this is, as usual, a declaration in the sand.
And besides, the reason, and why fall asleep on the first floor?

[kalibr]

Quote: Bar1

what exactly about this house and the rest along the street of the same era are documents on filling the ground floor? Well then show.

I did not work with archives in Kazan. And I was never interested in construction business. I just worked a lot in various archives and I know that in a bureaucratic state you can’t even let the winds go so that it doesn’t reflect somewhere.

[Fat]

Quote: Bar1

Quote: kalibr

Including raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc. Even the Duma’s decisions on planting greenery in the city and arranging drinking bowls for street dogs in the summer so that they would not rage with thirst. For the purchase of sewer manholes and flower tubs. And payroll workers who did it. In Penza, some streets from my childhood rose several meters. And everything has urban planning documentation. You simply never were in any archive therefore and write any nonsense.

Do you want to say that it is on this house and the rest on the street of the same era that there are documents on filling the ground floor? Well then show. However, you certainly will not show, because this is, as usual, a declaration in the sand.
And besides, the reason, and why fall asleep on the first floor?

There is no need to fill the floor. Where is Penza and where is Sura? One spring flood and in a couple of years .... Hello! I am your new mentor ....

[Fat]

Quote: Bar1

And besides, the reason, and why fall asleep on the first floor?

There is no reason to fill the floors, especially in Kazan, where did you start, 2-3 floods and dirt will get rid of a lot of dirt enough. Kazan is the Kama and the Volga in the merger ... Somehow I was traveling from Kirov to Balezino ... in the 90s the whole area around was under water in June ... And this is just the Vyatka River ... Not the Kama, not the Volga ... Yes, we were regularly flooded with the Union, no one was even surprised at all ... Why fall asleep? It got cold! give a couple of hundreds of floods with sand and Gm, that's 2-8 meters of sediment. And This ... when did you make the first stone pavement in Kazan? Follow her story ... you will be pleasantly (unpleasantly) fascinated ...

[Bar1]

Quote: Thick

, 2-3 floods and dirt are enough raking nemeryanno.

it seems so to you, the river doesn’t carry so much dirt with meters, and besides, Kazan is not the city that floods in the flood.

[Fat]

Once there was no dam - a reservoir. This is the one. bad spring option. And now the floor of Kazan with the surrounding area. Under water
What? Have you never known?

[Bar1]

Quote: Thick

And now the floor of Kazan with the surrounding area. Under water

give a link.

[kalibr]

You gave me an interesting idea. How much land does civilization bring ... I took a camera and walked around my Penza. There are streets where houses used to be level with the pavement, but now they are in a deep hole. Well, and most importantly, railway. tunnel. Played alongside children ... hid under it. "Bread" cars were passing under him. And now ... even a homeless person can spend the night under it and then he won't get in. I will write an article about this. And the last thing you can see for yourself. About the Zolotarevskoye settlement ... there were pit traps in front of it. With handles ... at the bottom of the stake! And what is left of them now ... Look, there are materials about this on the Web.

[AllBiBek]

Due to the fact that with the advent of domestic refrigerators, the need for basement floors stupidly disappeared. Given that it’s always cold and wet ...

[Fat]

Quote: AllBiBek

Due to the fact that with the advent of domestic refrigerators, the need for basement floors stupidly disappeared. Given that it’s always cold and wet ...

I live in a house that is over 200 years old ... Service rooms (with a stove, my basement) through the wall - a glacier, deeper in level, next to a pantry.
All the time when during the next cleaning-reconstruction of the basement with finds I am surprised ...
How can you litter in such a way in the 19th century ... It's cold and wet, you have to ... And the waste, as if some chips were eaten or seeds ... and washed down with vinegar. A police checker was found in the glacier ... Hmm ... one hilt and survived. Steel in the trash, but the handle with the stigma is normal ... got rid of the occasion, so as not to embarrass the soul.
I’m thinking how to use my workshop. Yes, I have it rightfully. But scary to dig.
I signed an agreement with the local Ministry of Culture, otherwise the land would not have been given .... Ambush

[Genry]

Quote: kalibr

about raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc.

The gravel was stolen and covered with alluvial soil ... And where is the asphalt? Stolen to absolute zero?
And why didn’t the windows be walled up?

Do not you think that ruining a large number of buildings - it was stupid. And the volume of work performed on transportation is generally unrealistic and at a cost .....

Academics are blind and ....

[kalibr]

I dont know. But I know that in Penza I had a railway tunnel through which there were rails along which a passenger motor vehicle went to the ZIF plant. Before him was a wasteland with holes, and on the edges on the hills stood one-story huts of white color. Then a lot of land began to be brought here, and a bus station was built on the site of an empty lot. Now the huts were a meter below the level of this site. The street of my childhood has survived ... It has a 5-story building and a private house in a pit ... So in my childhood this private house stood on a hill! So everything is real both in volume and cost. By the way, you need to write an article about this, and while this house is safe to take a picture of it! And the tunnel is now pedestrian and stairs lead into and out of it !!!

[Genry]

Quote: kalibr

By the way, you need to write an article about this, and while this house is intact take a picture of it!

There (YouTube), under the video there are several links.

[Bar1]

Quote: Genry

Quote: kalibr

By the way, you need to write an article about this, and while this house is intact take a picture of it!

There (YouTube), under the video there are several links.

Yes, it’s the Seine River that flooded Paris so much, applied clay for 20 meters. So the people in the know say so.

[Genry]

Quote: Bar1

Yes, it’s the Seine River, so it flooded Paris, inflicted clay on 20 meters

And to what height did this Seine rise, and why is there no such soil deposit during modern floods?

[Simargl]

Quote: kalibr

So everything is real and in volume and cost

Get it all out! Large volumes of work could only Anunaki!
But in reality, everything looks like this:

avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-zen_doc/96780/pub_5cf6a88bc4f43e0a1d11579b_5cf6ab75051e5a00aef888ca/scale_1200

[Fat]

Quote: Genry

Quote: kalibr

about raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc.

The gravel was stolen and covered with alluvial soil ... And where is the asphalt? Stolen to absolute zero?
And why didn’t the windows be walled up?

Do not you think that ruining a large number of buildings - it was stupid. And the volume of work performed on transportation is generally unrealistic and at a cost .....

Academics are blind and ....

You had to tie words to time. And then just "W-Pa" .... What academics?
Pure "business" ....

[AllBiBek]

No, it’s just that the people inattentively read the classics on the subject of where the poorest citizens live. A room in the basement, from which only the feet of passers-by are visible.

[Fat]

Quote: Genry

And why didn’t the windows be walled up?

Duc ... Zamurovali ... Then, when the big water was leaving and the sediment from the basement was carried out ...

[Fat]

Quote: Genry

Quote: kalibr

about raising streets, bringing gravel, laying asphalt, etc.

The gravel was stolen and covered with alluvial soil ... And where is the asphalt? Stolen to absolute zero?
And why didn’t the windows be walled up?
Do not you think that ruining a large number of buildings - it was stupid. And the volume of work performed on transportation is generally unrealistic and at a cost .....
Academics are blind and ....

Well, in general ... Nafik steamed a couple of spring spills of the Volga and Kama, to scoop up each time?
It has washed out, well, and "X" is with him ... It was easier all before ... no one held a plebiscite on the renaming of Yeleninskaya Street into Lenin Street. The rest of the "improvement" is the initiative of the residents.
Where is the asphalt? Well, bring a couple of supply for the mayor. Prove it! that asphalt is cooler and cheaper than a wooden bridge ...

[nickname7]

. especially recent recent data on history, discoveries,

And where do the nice data come from? From the air? Official science extracts this data. And then there is a refinement and revision in the light of the newly discovered information. Moreover, the volume of these data is very high and only official science is able to process them, and alternative experts will steal several facts from officials, take them out of context and write fantasy.

They do not answer the data, they are analyzed.

As an example of the scrupulousness and thoroughness of data collection and processing,
official science, an article on the Wikin Museum from York at the VO. The data do not cause any questions, on the contrary, the details of the life and life of those Vikings were refined, this is how archeology works, about which you scornfully spoke. The alternative artists cannot create anything like that museum.

[Van 16]

I have long been convinced that the articles of Vyacheslav Olegovich are extremely useful. Firstly, you always learn something new and interesting (as an option, you remember a well-forgotten old one), secondly, you get positive emotions ("Bra for a boy" - an example), thirdly, they are simply well written, which in our time is already very rare.
Almanac "World of Adventures" in childhood was read, got wherever I could, I still remember these dense, shabby volumes. I downloaded everything I found in the e-mail, but I don’t reread it yet, I’m afraid to ruin my childhood impressions.

[Phil77]

I welcome you Ivan! And my favorite magazine was * Seeker *, an appendix to * Around the world *. But to find / get, exchange, ask for a time / it was a very difficult task!

[Van 16]

Good afternoon! The "seeker" was passed from hand to hand, yes, it was a very big problem to find it. From magazines at that time I read just Around the World, Youth, Ural Pathfinder, Technology of Youth, it was easier to find them.

[3x3zsave]

.But to find / get, exchange, ask for a time / it was very difficult task
I only saw him a couple of times for all my childhood and adolescence!

[Phil77]

Quote: Van 16

I have long been convinced that the articles of Vyacheslav Olegovich are extremely useful. Firstly, you always learn something new and interesting (as an option, you remember a well-forgotten old one), secondly, you get positive emotions ("Bra for a boy" - an example), thirdly, they are simply well written, which in our time is already very rare.

Exactly! Vyacheslav Olegovich knows how to * hook * the audience! Thanks to the Author!

[Alex 1970]

In my youth I also read "Anatology of Mysterious Cases", then there were "Secrets of the Ages" and "Secrets of Millennia", and also got carried away by the "alternative", but in the 90s such foam began to flow that it forever turned away from this hobby, that then they just did not write! Once I even read that Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko is Hercules! Perhaps this was the drop of nicotine that finished off my "alternative horse"
And the article is a huge plus. I really liked it.

[kalibr]

Even then, Alexey, the seeds of ignorant freethinking were thrown into the crowd, and today they have sprouted rich shoots. In 1980 in TM there was an article by Lieutenant D. Zenin about the Kulikovsky battle. And there it was written that in the hut every Russian peasant had a sword and a shield made of oak ... Well, not our swords - okay - they were rusted and they were forged into plowshares. But an oak shield? There have never been oak shields! All the finds of shields made of wood, and there are many of them, indicate that the wood of the shield was ... linden! There are no archaeological finds confirming that they were oak. But the man wrote! And others went after him to repeat. Although the journal "Archeology of the USSR" was quite accessible to everyone!

[Alex 1970]

I always read your articles with pleasure! I really liked the story at school, read a lot of additional literature and everyone said go to history, but I didn’t go and became an engineer And the story before is "first love"!

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexey 1970

but he didn’t go and became an engineer

A good engineer is worth a bad historian!

[Fat]

Quote: kalibr

All the finds of shields made of wood, and there are many of them, indicate that the wood of the shield was ... linden!

Vyacheslav Olegovich! Linden is not only a tree "for handicrafts" ... Many people think that the "linden seal" is an extreme of the Russian bureaucracy and swindlers ... The linden tree is a lot of big differences. Linden growing on the coastal loam-sandy loam. It is close in density and strength to oak ... Linden wood is homogeneous, you can cut it as you like ... You can! Try to take the cutter in your hands! especially after the circular gets stuck ... We, among ourselves, called "THIS" lipo ... "Duc." ... this is not .... Not quite a linden ...
Summary: Linden wood is a multi-species thing and the properties of linden wood are in many ways unique ... It’s never right to be surprised at a linden shield ...

[kalibr]

Well, I just didn't know all that. I just read reports in the journal "Soviet Archeology" and there was about it. Then I read about the Viking shields "linden of war" found in England, then ... in a word, it is obvious that our ancestors were smart people, since they chose her.

[Fat]

Well ... So if they could make battering rams, they could build stone throwers, they didn't draw from a nearby oak. We studied quickly. They took the best. And in the art of wood, in general ... definitely, not "three from the forest"

[AllBiBek]

For me, at one time it was a discovery that stone tips on spears and darts were fastened not with leather belts, as is usually painted and implied by default, but with spruce and pine roots.

Moreover, this was established experimentally (through comparative trasology), and after that - ethnographic evidence was found that it was so much where for a long time, but somehow this was not suspected about the Upper Paleolithic / Mesolithic.

Fortunately, experimental archeology and other handicraft reconstructions now run into a huge bunch of enthusiasts of all kinds and in all countries, and most of them are sane guys who know how to deal with the issue.

This makes me happy.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Thank. Interesting. Much more interesting than assumptions about the weapons of the future.

[kalibr]

My white leader says your leader of the redskins: sometimes you don’t see the deep meaning so soon ... But my thanks to yours!

[The leader of the Redskins]

Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich!)

[kalibr]

And to you the best of good sunny morning! I have just this!

[3x3zsave]

Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
In St. Petersburg - a small snowball.

[Phil77]

Greetings Anton!
Moscow-rain, overcast, coronovirus, self-isolation, rare passers-by. Almost empty streets. Sadness.

[3x3zsave]

Sergei!
Snow began to rain.
Of course, all of this is also present here, but without fanaticism. For the last month I even stood in traffic jams a couple of times.

[Phil77]

Traffic is absolutely free, at least in our area. There is no desire to drive further.

[3x3zsave]

Our city with the region somehow agreed on summer cottage traffic for May.

[kalibr]

In Penza, a storm is expected at 12.00:XNUMX. Now the sun and the nasty wind ...

[Catfish]

Hello Anton!
That all this talk about the weather brings certain memories. And then there

Moscow-rain, overcast, coronovirus, self-isolation, rare passers-by. Almost empty streets. Sadness.

All sorts of thoughts come to mind that, for example, someone was lucky and somewhere there was a cloudless sky, while someone, although it was raining, was still happy. And we have nothing, just a lingering wind ... To go and drink vodka ... Moreover, I realized that my colleagues on the site have the same thoughts.
Olegych grand merci for "Flood", gave an idea.

[Krasnodar]

+21 - Krasnodar
An Uzbek approached the courtyard of the house, tried to sell some "old" coins, "give me at least something for food"

[Pane Kohanku]

An Uzbek approached the courtyard of the house, tried to sell some "old" coins, "give me at least something for food"

Albert, and you judged wisely: "If it is possible to exchange them immediately for food, then why risk money?" didn’t look what he showed there?
Good article. Nicely.

[Krasnodar]

Gray, big, light
I suggested to him, for three such primers, or, as an investment, bury them in the yard of our house so that a tree grew

[Pane Kohanku]

I offered him three such primer

Well, this is what you "dug" quite strategically! knowledge of foreign languages ​​increases earnings.

or, as an investment, bury them in the yard of our house so that a tree grows

Hmm .. and Cat Basilio - you, an hour, not a relative?
I had a friend of the director of the company ... The man is charming! So, according to his stories, at the weekend he liked to ride with a metal detector around the outskirts of St. Petersburg. In Ropsha (this is where Peter III was killed drunk) he found some coins, almost of the 18th century. Well. And so on. It seems that even in the search engines consisted. And his hobby began with the fact that in Ferghana, even under the Union, he accidentally also found some ancient coin. It is a pity, he died at the end of 2015, the earth rest in peace.

[Krasnodar]

Numismatists from friends and acquaintances tried to turn me into their faith, but from dnznakrv I prefer green, crispy, as if real
Not, rather, Bar Abas - Basilio was his confélier in La Familla

[Pane Kohanku]

but from dnznakrv I prefer green, crispy, like real

Oh, Albert, cold pragmatism against romance! Pragmatism won ...

I suggested to him, for three such primers, or, as an investment, bury them in the yard of our house so that a tree grew

Sorry, let me joke?
Reminded of a joke.
- Father, I have sinned.
- What is your sin, my son?
- I deceived a Jew.
- This is not a sin, my son, THIS IS A MIRACLE!

Numismatists from friends and acquaintances tried to convert me into their faith

I remember how in the sixth grade our trudovik (a young guy) told us about the "white brothers", and a photo of a certain Maria Tsvigun was massively pasted on all suburban trains. All kinds of "ideas" were poured onto people.

[Krasnodar]

A son from a mixed marriage comes to his father;
- Dad, am I Jewish or Russian?
“Someone suddenly bothered with this?”
- The boy in the yard was bought great and two thoughts are struggling in me about what to do with it: to bargain for a good price, to resell profitably or to steal, then to break ...

[Pane Kohanku]

threads can go on forever!

[Krasnodar]

About the flood - all the Armenians I know believe that the ark with Noah was slowed down on Ararat ... interestingly, is there something similar in the Armenian pre-Christian epic?

[AllBiBek]

It depends on what is considered as such, but if all sorts of Hurrian tablets are from the territory known as Urartu - then there is a standard retelling of the legend of Gilgamesh, it was simply replaced by Zisudra according to the Babylonian tradition.

Well, the reason is the disassembly of the gods, and the reason for the termination is that there are almost no people left to make sacrifices to the gods. And other things in detail.

[Krasnodar]

Oh, thanks - the first time I hear a clear answer

[AllBiBek]

Yes, no matter what.

The most interesting thing here is, as the initial version - Mount Nycyr - it suddenly became Ararat, it is already in a later version, presumably - the Chaldean, and this version of the myth is known from Greek sources, there the Flood suits Kron (wasps), and Zisudra becomes Xisuthras.

But this is already the very plot "spoiled phone", as applied to myths, and even with an admixture of all mystical tinsel of its times. And the Chaldeans could not do without it.

[3x3zsave]

"Just five minutes, like a Russian, and already so I hate you Jews"

[Krasnodar]

Greetings Anton!
- Rabinovich, what about the new Patek Philip?
- My dad sold me in the hospital before he died

[Catfish]

You know, this is already about the hobbyist: "I can’t do it all, but I’ll bite at once." I really have a Khokhlatskaya surname myself, so I can ...

Portret is not mine, if that.

[Krasnodar]

So that's who created the MacBook and iPhone logo

[Catfish]

What did you think !? Only in Khokhloma live modest people and keep quiet about it. The main thing is a hot-water bottle with a hot-water bottle, the rest will follow (I almost wrote it ... really).

[Krasnodar]

Yes, I know the people living there - for the most part adequate cynics - but there are galusho-gorilny patriots who first used a submarine during the first Ukrainian-Roman war)),

[Catfish]

In Sevastopol, when we, Muscovites, rummaged under water in search of antique pots, right there, in Karantinka, two young Kiev halographic guys worked in the bunker "Mine Sausage". So, we are sitting in the evening by the fire, our company with the girls from the Sverdlovsk expedition (plus two sergeants of the local police). We drink Pivdennobugskoe, talk, "Marchuk plays the guitar", quietly, calmly and in a minor at heart. And then these Kiev guys come, almost a box of port, and ask permission to sit down. Naturally, they received permission, sat for half an hour, drank and suddenly one of them said: "Let's get some sleep from Ukrainian songs." I almost swallowed a cigarette. In our company, there was just anyone, but no one ever said, let's sing Jewish, Tatar and other songs. A song is a song. To be honest, it was the end of the seventies, but I still remember it. Well. we sat, sang, drank, but they didn’t come to us anymore, and thank God, on that arrival, some tension immediately arose. So what happened after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I was not very surprised. I mean Ukraine.

[Krasnodar]

So even in Israel I remember the children of immigrants from the eastern part of the country (Krivoy Rog, Dnepropetrovsk, etc.) - Ukraine, they said, fed Russia)).

[Catfish]

This is what always amazed me, in all other respects, it seems like normal people, but as for UkrAina - so zvizdets. By the way, as it turned out later, our sergeants from the non-departmental security explained something to those guys from Kiev, that's why they stopped coming to us, although the girls beckoned them. As Kozakov said in his film: "Our disinterested girlfriends." And Sevastopol is a luxurious city, I don’t know how it is now, it was there for the last time in the early nineties, and then the whole Russian mess did not really affect it, I mean people.

[Krasnodar]

I was there in May 2015, it was in Sevastopol, a race for a few hours. Everyone I met, patriots of the Russian Federation — a guide on a boat touring the bay along the Black Sea Fleet ships joyfully laid out the technical characteristics of anti-ship rockets, my friend, standing behind and to my side, made terrible eyes to him, and I listened politely and told me that himself from Israel
What embarrassed the guide. They didn’t accept cards at that time, my cash rubles were running out quickly, so I had to change the bucks - it was done from under the floor, turned through a photographer who planted a bunch of pigeons on me and took a picture. I don’t know about luxury, architecturally - torn down during the Second World War, the center is built up with typical houses of the late 40s and early 50s.
About Ukrainians - really normal people are looking for their own way of "development of the country", while realizing that it is a typical Eastern European hole. Well, their inadequate when dealing with Russians - so farmers Like our village is better and more correct. When I tried to prove to the Ukrainian that Russians are very similar to them - for example, a general Armani with Mercedes cars in the first and Paul Sharq with Lexus cars in the second, he began proving with foam at the mouth that Lexus is a Japanese Mercedes and Paul Shark is more practical than Armani .. . Then I realized that people don’t understand what I’m talking about .. kind of normal, adequate ..

[Undecim]

This always amazed me, in everything else, it seems like normal people, but as for UkrAina, it’s so zvezdets.
Me too. As it comes to Ukraine, so zvizdets. Reading about her here on the site, the question arises - have I lived in Ukraine for 60 years?

[Krasnodar]

People are mostly normal. Just quarrels of relatives - they are the worst.

[Fat]

Same memory march! Khokhloma - the center of Russia, Friendly Krasnodar
А

first used a submarine during the first Ukrainian-Roman war)),

There was no leisure. All painted, but that the submarine ... Under the Khokhloma ... Data is not publicly available.
Definitely ...

[Krasnodar]

A yak zhezh gzhel?

[Fat]

Gzhel is chemistry by and large.
They would say harshly ... I would hesitate ... I would have to compose a detailed answer. Well weak for Russian lacquer miniatures, especially in tempera. This is Palekh .... "My tempera".
There are Mstera, Kholuy, other masters. But Gzhel and other porcelain - earthen exploits of Russian masters. The highest class, well, not mine. Excuse me generously.))

[Fat]

Khokhloma, God forgive me, this is the Kostroma province ... We can and can do it. If not the way. That verse indecent people to move beauty ...)))

[Fat]

Something in the appearance is so familiar ... Exactly!
Eyewitness: I saw this, and all the time. He was ... unlocking it and biting the Polish apples: "The portrait is not mine. My portrait, but not mine, and in general - It is not similar .." And if something ... then ... yeah))
Uchastkovky: Yeah ...)))
Beans: Yes. Yes, and swore bad (not good and bad) words
... And also: "earthworm" ....
Haza there on earth is bad ...
Precinct: Yeah ...
He writes: he doesn’t like apples, but eats out of harm .. Nickname - Cat (marine)
Nickname does not respond

[Catfish]

Good afternoon, Andrei Borisovich.
Some did not understand the meaning of your comment. If you are offended by Khokhloma, then call, uncle, not out of malice. Since the word x about x about l on the site by administrators for some reason is considered abusive, replaced with Khokhloma. And he never imagined that it would hurt anyone. Although, maybe I'm wrong. In any case, I always did not give a damn about all these national-territorial differences and graters.

[Fat]

Oh ... This boy is definitely not a Jew. A Jew would immediately enter how to ride on someone else's bike himself and still have a gesheft. .))))

[Fat]

Great job! To overestimate - it is impossible

[3x3zsave]

There was also such a topic of "divorce" in St. Petersburg. I reacted in the same way. The last time I went even further. He suggested that the "seeker" stuff these rounds into the aphedron, hang him by his legs and wait for gold to fall from his mouth.

[Krasnodar]

I couldn’t do it like that - three children were playing on the court. )))
But at the final stage of communication I had to tell the guy the same thing as Slepakov Coronavirus

[knn54]

Thank you. From me, too, a big plus ..
The only question is Vyacheslav, could a series of eruptions be the cause of the tsunami. Again, from a meteorite that has flown close (but not fallen)?
During the Soviet era (alas, not today) I read the magazine "Ural Pathfinder".
And in 1971, a classmate brought (lined up) several magazines "World Pathfinder" of the late 20s.

[3x3zsave]

was read by the magazine "Ural Pathfinder".
Horsch was a magazine!

[Van 16]

Very good! It was there that I got acquainted with the works of Krapivin, Drugal, Kolupaev. I remember well Olga Larionova's "Little Star" with wonderful illustrations, if I'm not mistaken Sterligova.
And indeed it was very interesting to read it.

[3x3zsave]

Asterisk-head "Olga Larionova with wonderful illustrations, if I'm not mistaken Sterligova.
The story was later transformed into the novel "The Gospel According to Craig"

[kalibr]

Reply to

Quote: knn54

The only question is Vyacheslav, could a series of eruptions be the cause of the tsunami.

I DO NOT KNOW!

[cost]

The first thing that immediately comes to mind when looking at a picture is a glitch in the rotation of the Earth
The sun "walks" from east to west, which means the Earth is moving from west to east. Now imagine that the Earth has slowed down its rotation - by inertia, the waters of the oceans will move exactly as shown in the picture. Considering the radius of the Earth and the current speed of its rotation, the time when the inertial masses of water will flow around the planet and return to their original place will take from 5 to 20 days (150-600 hours). How long did the flood last there according to legend?
And let's discuss this option
ps .Do not laugh, comrades - I'm in this full dilettant, just a picture suggested

[kalibr]

Just Gorbovsky believed that such a slowdown was caused by the fall of a huge celestial body. So you are in good company!

[Tamparu]

Think logically!
Analyzing the consequences of the flood (s), that is, just maps from satellites (they are in the public domain), we can draw a certain conclusion that the movement of water masses was non-linear. The conclusion is that the earth, which is a large electromagnet, has changed its poles. As a result, taking into account also the "precession" of the Earth, the water did not just flow from "south to north" or "west to east" ... but received an additional moment of rotation. Look at the map of Siberia, at the map of the southeastern coast of North America, what the Drake Passage looks like between Cape Horn and Antarctica (bottom shape) ... etc ...
Sincerely,

[Andobor]

The global flood, in my understanding, and I saw and understand a lot as a special geologist, I am interested in history and know how myths live, is a very specific event, one the most powerful flood at the end of the ice age, then in a short period of less than a thousand years, sea level is almost rose a hundred meters, and a separate powerful flood from that period was irreversible and destroyed entire countries. Perhaps in Mesopotamia there is a memory of later floods, from the Sumerians.
I didn’t know about the similarity of flood myths with Mesoamerica, but interestingly, there are other inconsistencies there. Myths about the origin of cultivated plants are similar to Asia, the Holocene wave of American settlement begs, while according to other sources it is not visible.

[Undecim]

The global flood, in my understanding, and I saw and understand a lot as a special geologist, I am interested in history and know how myths live, is a very specific event, one the most powerful flood at the end of the ice age, then in a short period of less than a thousand years, sea level is almost rose a hundred meters, and a separate powerful flood from that period was irreversible and destroyed entire countries.
Bretz’s hypothesis of gigantic floods and Pardi’s idea of ​​glacial-dammed lakes as their source?

[Andobor]

Quote: Undecim

Bretz’s hypothesis of gigantic floods and Pardi’s idea of ​​glacial-dammed lakes as their source?

He did not delve deeply into these theories, but all this is related to the end of the ice age, for one reason, the end of the glacier, it did not necessarily affect all at once, but it touched all to a greater or lesser extent, in a short period, of the order of a thousand years.

[Trilobite Master]

In some recent year - in 2015, perhaps, it was a terribly rainy summer in St. Petersburg. It rained every day. In the city and its immediate vicinity it was not very noticeable, but I arrived in my village near Luga, took a spinning in the morning and went to the river. As I was approaching, I realized that something was wrong - crowded swamps, stagnant water in the forest, but when I went to the steep bank of the river and saw that the water was splashing under the very cliff, that is, it rose five meters ... I got caught. Not every spring such a flood occurs. The entire valley from coast to coast was flooded with water, the river from thirty meters turned into a kilometer wide. The time of year is the end of July.
In the evening, when I arrived, I also noticed that it was squelching under my feet in the alley, and as I returned from the forest, I walked through the village, I looked - in many yards there was water almost knee-deep, boards were laid to the house at the gates, otherwise pass the. The village stands on a hillock, such as a small plateau between three lakes.
Now, looking at this picture, I realized what the Flood is. This is not a tide, not a wave, not a melting glacier. This is two weeks of continuous rain, quite enough.

[Andobor]

Quote: Trilobite Master

This is not a tide, not a wave, not a melting glacier. It's two weeks of continuous rain, quite enough

Yes, and this is all out of the blue, and in the conditions of a glacier melting, continuous rains, the most powerful in a thousand years, are the Great Flood, and many remember it.

[mihaylov]

Quote: Trilobite Master

In some recent year - in 2015, perhaps, it was a terribly rainy summer in St. Petersburg. It rained every day.

How, how, I remember well: not like a river, my site overflowed its banks. Directly "Ugly Swans" of some kind.

[3x3zsave]

By the way, yes. The theme of the "great flood" began to be exploited in European medieval drawings just after 1315 -17.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: 3x3zsave

The theme of the "great flood" began to be exploited in European medieval drawings just after 1315 -17.

Anton, welcome.
And why such an exact date, have not such moments been noticed before this time? I am "not for self-interest, but only by the will of the wife who sent me."
Wrote first by "who sent it" Nothing too.

[3x3zsave]

The end of the medieval climatic optimum and the beginning of the MLP were marked by unprecedentedly heavy rainfall, which eventually led to the Great Famine. But the theme of the "biblical flood" in art originates precisely from those 3 rainy years. "The Heavenly Abyss Opened"

[Trilobite Master]

Philipp Philippych V, according to Maurice Druon, would probably agree with you.
But "the abyss of heaven" is, after all, a message to us from the Jews of those times when the great-grandfather of the carpenter Joseph hardly thought about posterity ...

[3x3zsave]

That's right, Michael! The slurred text from the Bible was suddenly updated for the inhabitants of the late Middle Ages and gave a powerful impetus to art.

[AllBiBek]

Well, in the Sumerian myth - but it is still the source - somehow it was. For two weeks it rained and it was enough.

Forty is already a later bedding, first appear among the Chaldeans, and from them to us - almost twice as close as from them to the Sumerians.

And so, the funniest thing is in the mountains, which collect water over the entire area, and lower it into some small river that forms a gorge.

We somehow had such a rivulet - rather even a trickle, ankle deep and three meters wide - after a couple of days the showers swelled by five meters. Well, how about five ... That we measured with a measuring ruler the height at which the trees pokotsalo stones.

As a bonus, a caterpillar tractor brought from the upper gorge. Which is characteristic, in parts.

How we got out of this gorge afterwards is another story ...

[Fat]

And if half a year, then no tractor will emerge in Gadyukino ...)))
And if you think about it, a powerful flood with landslides is a disaster, although not global, but very fatal ...

[AllBiBek]

It depends.

Settlements under mudflow gatherings are known (a little, for obvious reasons, but nevertheless), and most often the population managed to dump them at the time of the cataclysm. Sometimes in a hurry, sometimes in a hurry, and capturing the most valuable.

Campaign, monitored the situation during heavy rains. And ahead of time we prepared the ways of leaving.

[Andobor]

Quote: AllBiBek

Settlements under mudflow gatherings are known (a little, for obvious reasons, but nevertheless), and most often the population managed to dump them at the time of the cataclysm.

I am a geologist and recently studied the excavation of such a settlement, for archaeologists, advised as a geologist,
what was there: - the climate has changed, everything has dried up, people have dumped, for 25-40 years all the slopes have become bare from the vegetation, loose deposits have formed on the surface, and when precipitation did occur they covered an empty settlement with mud deposits. With humidity, as now the site is not mudflow hazardous, everything is soddy, trees, there are no mudflows at all. - The settlement of middle bronze on the coast in the area of ​​Gelendzhik. A powerful rainfall in the form of tornadoes there every few years over the sea is formed, regardless of the total moisture.
That is, it was not the increase in humidity that led to the mudflows, but, on the contrary, its catastrophic decrease, and people did not dump the drought from there.

[AllBiBek]

Divnomorskoye 1-2, yes.
Such conclusions were suggested initially, but there is Artyom there, who there seemed to be proto-Abkhazians, or almost Hittites, then an attack by the peoples of the sea, or echoes of the Trojan, or something like that. Although there are dolmen from that pack, which are known as Maykop.

I hope that this season it will be completed anyway, we planned it the year before last, but - you yourself saw everything.

And this is still mudflow language, as far as possible, was removed by technology, which, in general, is slightly prohibited, but this is definitely a special case ...

[Andobor]

Quote: AllBiBek

Divnomorskoe

- Yes, it is, there is middle bronze, and all these Hittites with the peoples of the sea are young for this.
There, some things are very well read, although not everything is clear.

[AllBiBek]

Why?
It’s just the right time for the Hittites to (possibly) go through those places, hook up with proto-Abkhazians, settle around Nessa, and from its vicinity begin to bend the Hutts and build an empire like a confederation, which in the end will be equally eaten with Egypt.

That's just the material there is absolutely Maykop, albeit with dating to the Middle Bronze.

In southern bronzes, everything is quite complicated with the chronology, this is a separate issue ...

[AllBiBek]

And you will not find. Alternatives in this regard have a thick hodgepodge of mythological subjects, moreover, with fictional details of myths.

Here, for example, the myths of the Toltecs and Incas were mixed at different times, and a gag was added about the chopped cypress. Although, in the original myth, the husband and wife were saved in a large jug. This is the Inca myth. And the smoke from the smell of fish is a Toltec myth, and there a man and a dog were saved, and after the gods they made a woman out of the dog.

And all would be fine, only these two civilizations were generally not aware of each other, to the last. And some common moments of mythology are convergent in essence, but completely different in chronology of what happened.

The tales of alternative artists are generally interesting to make out, there is always an owl on a globe densely seasoned with a gag for greater authenticity.

[Fat]

You shouldn't be so. The alternatives are serious comrades. They fight for any artifact. And there is something to believe ... For the time being. I confess I was a supporter. Until my mathematical training killed this dream ... I just found the "Old Believer calendar" And precipitated.
Wait, sometimes, I think, being wary of the "assaults".
Believe in the "Oneness of the Race" I would like to, but I cannot, thanks to Serafima Andreevna, a primary school teacher ...
It doesn’t roll ... This is not a quadratic equation for you to solve as a discriminant ...
Here you need to THINK

[AllBiBek]

And what are these myths, if not secret?
At the time of the Holocene settlement of America in Asia with domesticated cereals, not so much, and - in America there are simply no domesticated cereals, which are also in Asia.

Mesoamerica, as Vavilov proved, is a separate and completely autonomous center of domestication of plants. The only thing that escaped from it before the Europeans arrived was the sweet potato before Polynesia, but these are the days of Macedon, plus / minus a hundred or two years.

The fact that the small-town god of the Sun gave the cereals is a convergence.

[Andobor]

Quote: AllBiBek

And what are these myths, if not secret?

I don’t remember specifically, but the point is that settlement, according to all modern concepts, went through Alaska, even before agriculture, and the myths about the origin of "bananas" are the same - they could not carry bananas through Berengia, or whatever they have, and by the flood the same, the myths are the same, although they were gone before the flood.
There is such a Yuri Berezkin, he is engaged in myths, and special in America. See on YouTube he has a lot of videos.

[AllBiBek]

Well, there are from two to five waves there in the Upper Paleolithic (the notorious Clovis is most likely the penultimate wave), and a couple of them are in the Mesolithic, but there is still no producing economy there.

There were still Neolithic migrations, but this is a separate issue.

[Han Tengri]

"Do not make any more wine from agave, but begin to hollow the trunk of a large cypress and enter it when in the month of Tozontli the water reaches heaven."

Wow! Well, practically, like:

[3x3zsave]

"Do not drink wine Gertrude,
Drunkenness does not paint ladies "(C)

[Han Tengri]

"But if the vodka was not to be driven from sawdust,
What would we have with five bottles? "(C)

[Phil77]

Oh !!! This is our everything! From the topic of the global flood, smoothly move on to the conversation about vodka! Respect !!!!!

[3x3zsave]

"While the ladle is being changed, the Soviet athlete is kneading with red wine."

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Phil77

Oh !!! This is our everything! From the topic of the global flood, smoothly move on to the conversation about vodka! Respect !!!!!

Your untruth. We are strictly about the flood. It’s not our fault that the Aztecs turned out to be such drunks ...

[Pane Kohanku]

Your untruth. We are strictly about the flood. It’s not our fault that the Aztecs turned out to be such drunks ...

Colleagues, in the treasury of our honest company:

[bubalik]

smoothly transition

“Quite right,” Porthos agreed, “but what does not change, or rather what changes for the better, is wine.” Taste the Spanish that our friend Athos so valued: this is sherry

[Undecim]

But biblical myths are thought to date back to the Babylonian, earlier sources.
Which, in turn, go back to even more ancient Akkadian.
I would like to clarify one point about the meaning that scientists put into the concept of "myth" in discussing problematic issues.
In the academic sense, a myth is "a story consisting of supposedly historical events presented in a supernatural form and explaining the origin of a cultural practice or natural phenomenon." That is, if scientists apply the term "myth" to any event, this does not mean that the event did not take place. This means that they doubt its interpretation that has come down to us.
All folk and althistorics always circumvent this nuance.

[AllBiBek]

Akkadtsi also pulled him off. In fact, the Sumerians).

Nomads stupidly do not have myths about the floods, this is a marker of settled cultures. But the Akkadians are nomads who, after making noise, began to be able to become a little able in sedentary agriculture.

[Maks1995]

Lord, flood, flood ....
Think of Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. How is Mississippi? spilled.
From horizon to horizon, and so several weeks.

And if you recall that the famous ancient civilizations were located near the rivers ... and sharp turns, spills, river droughts in China, two rivers, India simply erased / wrecked cities and entire states ... and look at the figure from the article - where are these myths are common ....
Then everything is clear at once.

Here among the blacks in Africa, the highlanders of the Caucasus, Scotland, the Himalayas, the highlands of the east, the ancient pagans of Europeans and Slavs for some reason there are no such myths. There are no rivers and seas nearby.

[Undecim]

Here at the blacks in Africa
Blacks in Africa - Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, Yoruba have flood myths.
Highlanders of the Caucasus, Scotland, Himalayas,
Ireland and Wales have such myths.

[Maks1995]

1) The figure in the article is not.
2) I read the legends of the Caucasus, I read the Russians, I read some of the Negroes. Including academic publications (unprocessed). I have not seen such a thing there.
The heirs of Sumeria / Islam / Christianity clearly have it. Armenia, Azerbaijan.
And already clearly Christian legends are found.

[Undecim]

The figure in the article is not.
This map is just one of the options for one of the hypotheses of the catastrophic flood occurrence - an impact event.
There are other options, taking into account four main hypotheses, for example this one.

[Undecim]

I read some with blacks.
There is no such ethnonym as Negroes. Because "blacks" can not read anything.
If you mean the population of Africa, try Lynch Patricia Ann. African Mythology A to Z.

[Maks1995]

No time, thanks.
But do these peoples live on the coast? (on the card attached by you, for example). Here you have to rely on your word.

As for your Card, it only confirms my words. Flood tales touched almost exclusively places where these floods occur regularly.

[AllBiBek]

Yes, of course not, how ...

Half of the ones you listed definitely have a myth about the duck, which got the land from the bottom of the sea.

This plot is the same from Scotland to the Great Plains of North America almost across Eurasia.

And in the same Africa, the story about the flood is generally the only thing common in the heap of mythologies and cultures, especially in Central and South.

[Alecsandr]

There was something that we don’t know. The Aral Sea dried up and found the remains of settlements at the bottom. And everywhere. They say that even the Egyptian pyramids have found traces of great water. Ancient legends from different peoples should also be taken into account. believe. Schlliman believed and, as a result, Troy dug up.

[mihaylov]

Zenon Kosidovsky "When the Sun Was God" is, in my opinion, quite a decent book for popular literature.

[Tamparu]

My opinion is that the Aral Sea ... are the consequences of either the last or the penultimate flood ...

[Senior seaman]

When later Nata ended and his wife lit a fire

Funeral? :))))))

[Esoteric]

I will express my humble opinion. As for the presence of civilizations in the galaxy. They can not be. Imagine an allegory. There is a sower, and sows arable land with rye grains. What is the probability that only one spikelet will rise? Negligible. There are more than two hundred billion stars in our galaxy, and only our system bothered to reproduce life? It can not be.
As for the possible journey of hypothetical aliens. It is possible. But, you need to drop one theory of an internationally recognized genius, and return to the basics, the theory of ether. Movable in moving. When this happens, and humanity will reach the stars. But if it prefers to remain in the blinkers of the Orthodox, then, alas, will die out.
Again, civilization imprisoned for the production of means of destruction of their own kind, simply has no right to exist. According to the laws of this very universe. Well, another planet will evolve on planet Earth. It already was.

[AllBiBek]

Yes, no one would deny that, perhaps, other civilizations were knocking on the contact window before us in the radio range.

That's just the Pithecanthropus and Neanderthals did not know how to receive radio waves ...

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Ezoterik

Again, civilization imprisoned for the production of means of destruction of their own kind, simply has no right to exist. According to the laws of this very universe.

A civilization not sharpened for the production of means of destruction, at least themselves (because in this world at the top of the food chain, no one but us is left) will certainly be destroyed, the very first aliens who "suddenly" will not know that "According to the laws of this Universe "they are obliged to be kind and friendly.

[Esoteric]

Thank you for your comment. You know, I think our planet is alive. She tolerates us, as a loving mother suffers a bad-ass son. And she can shake us off in one moment. I'm an esoteric. You health and good!

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Ezoterik

that our planet is alive. She tolerates us, as a loving mother suffers a bad-ass son.

Earth:
- I'm in trouble. People started up on me. Run, shoot, explode, drill something. Everything itches and hurts. What to do?
Mars:
- Do not worry. They were on me too. The main thing is not to scratch. Sami pass.

[Esoteric]

Although this is an anecdote, it is full of deep meaning. You know, I assembled a semblance of a telescope myself, at the age of 15, having read Tsesevich's amazing book - "What and How to Observe in the Sky". Unfortunately, I did not become an astronomer. But how I love this whole topic related to the stars, the Universe.

[Esoteric]

You know, I had one acquaintance. There is no reason not to believe him. And once, in a distant Siberian city, where he was passing through, he was impatient. To the toilet. It was hard to find a place to do this routine. He found. Old transformer box, very close to the station.
He found himself in some strange place where there was winter, two moons shone in the sky, around was a forest and the howl of wild animals. For five minutes, then everything returned to normal. He turned gray, from the experience. Everything in our world is not easy.

[kalibr]

Dmitriy! You are "our man". Therefore, I highly recommend you my book on author. today "Creator God" Part I: Lost on the highway. There is fantasy, adventure, but ... all examples are taken from reality ...

[Esoteric]

Thanks Vyacheslav! I will definitely read it.

[AllBiBek]

It begs that he was stupidly shocked by the current.

Conclusion?

A transformer box - even an old one - is not the best place to defecate.

[Undecim]

Old transformer box, very close to the station.
He found himself in some strange place where there was winter, two moons shone in the sky, around was a forest and the howl of wild animals. For five minutes, then everything returned to normal. He turned gray, from the experience. Everything in our world is not easy.
Obviously, voltage was present in the old transformer box, and judging by the effect produced, it was high.

[Fat]

Oh! Leave it. The most serious buzz from the long-awaited natural departure ... And adrenaline as an application .... It is sung to the people ..
"There is no better beauty than .... From above"
Is not it so?

[sergo1914]

Historical science

Thanks for the joke. I haven’t neigh for a long time. You made my day.
...

Still, specialized comprehensive education is a thing!

))) Yes, stop it! Why are you doing it? )))

[A. Privalov]

Gullibles today have divorced apparently invisibly. One has only to look at hundreds of thousands of likes under videos on Youtube with all sorts of things "They hide it from us," Lost technologies of antiquity "," Information about alternative energy sources was destroyed by the World-Government ", etc. There is also about the Flood and more about various things.

[Krasnodar]

I watched about the nuclear war of antiquity

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Krasnodar

I watched about the nuclear war of antiquity

And I, about trams without wires and peaked towers on the roofs for the transmission of electricity through the air.

[mihaylov]

On this occasion, an old joke is recalled about the dispute between two archaeologists about whether there was a telegraph in Ancient Egypt: wired or wireless.

[Krasnodar]

On Atlantis and went. For the fastest movement of the superethnos.

[Fat]

I like more about ancient super concrete ...
Just happy for the old-fashioned technology ...
Even, at times, Something useful is also thought out and, even, the necessary results are obtained ..
It's like: "He was joking, and She flew in"

[kalibr]

My student went to Egypt as the head of the travel agency. Well, I advised her ... Take a photo. Well, she told me: But really, you can’t stick a knife blade in, but the truth ...
She returned ... and said - cracks between the stones - a hand will crawl through, although nearby ... in some places the stones lie so tightly that ... yes. But not everywhere. And most of the pyramids are very carelessly built. As she put it, it was built "in a human way."

[Tamparu]

This is how the tidal wave of the Flood moved, and the red circles mark the places where legendary information was most preserved about it

Good afternoon. Respected!
The map you have drawn / laid out is accurate enough. But it is not a fact that such a movement of the water mass took place during the last "single" flood, but that's okay ... The fact that there were flood (s) is understandable. The question always arises when discussing the latter ... What caused this phenomenon? And, immediately the sentence ... We exclude the version of God immediately ...
With respect...

[DimanC]

Yes, yes, the author has forgotten (maybe next time he will add) that the meteorite supposedly fell in the South China Sea region, as a result (this was discussed at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries) the phenomenon of slipping of the earth's crust arose, our Chukotka "rose "closer to the North Pole, while Europe, on the contrary," lowered "to the equator. A tidal wave in the form of a mixture of water and ice on our northern borders flooded rather large areas, and at the same time mammoths and other game, which are now often found with food in their stomachs (sudden death followed by freezing and conservation). Some alternatives have found out that the Mexican pyramids point to the antediluvian North Pole, while the Egyptian ones point to the current one ... We stock up on chips, popcorn and look forward to continuing :-)

[kalibr]

Quote: DimanC

which is now often found with food in the stomachs (sudden death, followed by freezing and preservation).

This is written word for word in A. Tolstoy's novel "Aelita". He also paid attention to this ...
"The elk took his hand out of his pocket, put it on the table, under the light bulb, and clenched his fingers into a fist.
- In Siberia, among the eternal ice, I dug mammoths that died in the cracks of the earth. They had grass between their teeth, they grazed where the ice is now. I ate their meat. They did not have time to decompose - they froze in several days, they were covered with snow. Apparently, the deviation of the earth's axis happened instantly. The Earth collided with a celestial body, or we had a second satellite, smaller than the Moon. We pulled him in, and he fell, broke the earth's crust, deflected the earth's axis. "

[AllBiBek]

That's just all the famous mammoth mummies are 25-40 thousand years old, and this is a little different interglacial.

At the time of the final transition of the Pleistocene to the Holocene - and alternative events associate flood legends with this event - the mammoth remained only in the format of island populations. Moreover, the latter reached the time of the construction of the pyramids.

The people of the Mammoth Hunter Culture most likely did not hunt the mammoth, their camps are located near the remains of the times of a truly massive pestilence. Like the same Kostenok.

[depressant]

In a past life, there was an album with photographs of wonders from the ancient cities of the Maya and other peoples of the same part of the world. One of the photographs shows a slab depicting the "Feathered" God Quetzalcoatl, the Palenque temple complex. It didn't take a second to conclude that Quetzalcoatl was bent over the control panel of the descent vehicle. I just saw it)) No wonder the locals gave him the nickname "Feathered" - apparently, for the ability to fly and its frequent demonstration))
Albums ... Yes, there was a time ...
And this issue of the journal "Technics for Youth" did not catch my eye. Although in the attic of the house such a period has been accumulating, as it seemed to me, since time immemorial.
Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks! You are a magician who knows how to immerse into the past.

[AllBiBek]

People tend to see in an object or image not an object or an image, but their knowledge about an object of a similar form.

So there are all kinds of astronauts in Neolithic petroglyphs, and helicopters with submarines in Egyptian bas-reliefs.

Deniken on this nonsense got rich, and not only he.

[kalibr]

I’m touched, what words did you find ...

[Engineer]

"The Astronaut from Palenque" is one of the brightest childhood memories
I am 8 years old. Night from Monday to Tuesday. School tomorrow. I watch both parts of Deniken's "chariots of the gods". Three o'clock in the morning.
Ralef from Palenque is the brightest example, which would seem to conclusively testify that paleocontact is a reality.
Over time, other examples from the film received comprehensive explanations from other sources. And only the "astronaut from Palenque" for years drove into a stupor
Here, relatively recently, I found an explanation for this

Watch from 1:08:00

[DWG1905]

Tankmaster is power. The author of this magazine went down in history.
As usual, comments deviated greatly from the topic. Some up to the last bullet defend the position of orthodox science, while others disregarding the losses they storm. In this matter, a calm engineering analysis is needed. Information in myths is one of the elements for analysis. I like a more thoughtful analysis of various facts.
https://cont.ws/@rodline/1518282
https://cont.ws/jr/earthrotations#

[AllBiBek]

Excuse me, but somehow I am fed up with "calm mathematical analysis" from Fomenko's father, his son Nosovsky and St. Morozov, and engineering analysis of ancient technologies from Sklyarov and other legion.

The fact that, for example, Belarusians have a legend about the knight Drustan and the maiden Yzolda does not mean that the direction of the Earth’s rotation and the angle of its inclination somehow affect the direction and speed of the legend. Everything is a little different there, not so, and - in this particular case, it is really possible to tie the spread of the legend to a bundle of historical processes.

With the legend of the global flood, a little is not so, from that period there are not so many written ones, and it is not very possible to accurately track all movements of peoples. There, the half-century process usually fits in a couple of slurred lines, but as it was in practice, local contemporaries got confused in this.

[Fat]

Yes. Thought fresh thanks for the cool photo.
Why analysis is needed engineering?

[Tamparu]

In this matter, a calm engineering analysis is needed.

I agree, colleague !!!!
Just wanted to add!
In addition to engineering knowledge, it would be nice to understand more in geology, history, astronomy. Over the past six, seven years, as I became interested in this topic, I realized that without the imposition of knowledge, the general picture cannot be understood. But the most important thing is that I understood .. That everything that we were taught in history, starting from the 19th century and into the depths of "deep antiquity", must be divided by 153. And then, the final result of the division must be considered under a magnifying glass, since it is too serious the forces wanted and want the simple "little man" to remain ignorant of the actual processes taking place. Better yet, it would be a biological robot that carries out certain commands / programs of a group of people.
Sincerely,

[kalibr]

Quote: TampaRU

because too serious forces wanted and want the simple "human" to remain ignorant of the real processes

Strange, Andrey. You were carried away by this topic 7 years ago. I - in 1968 ... and since 1982 I have been connected with history on an ongoing basis. And I did not notice the presence of these serious forces, at least kill me. And no one bothered me, by and large, to study what I wanted. And after 91 years, I generally write what I want here and abroad. Well, no one bothers !!! And in lectures, this is what he wanted, he always said ...

[Tamparu]

You understand, Vyacheslav.
If it were not for the craving for aviation, I would have become a historian or investigator. But, it turned out how it happened. At the same time, with the advent of the Internet, access to a large source of information appeared, which did not exist before. The tendency to analysis, innate and acquired, coupled with the constant desire to rise above the analyzed situation / problem, to look at everything "from the outside", with an unclouded look, to discard, possibly false options, and leave possibly plausible, makes it possible to understand how much information true. You will agree with me that the world order since the time of the "king-pea" was built on the truth, abundantly diluted with lies. And if Mother Nature helps you, although it rather does not help, and they, who want to achieve some global specific goals, use global cataclysms as an additional tool in achieving their goals, then find such people and understand what triggered their actions / deeds are very difficult.
For me, in general, based on what I have read, reviewed and analyzed, one of the options is the conclusion that we are: "matrix". It seems like it's crazy, but one of the options is this ...
And the fact that no one is bothering you, perhaps indicates that you are looking in the wrong place and your conclusions are erroneous, but it is possible that no one will believe you.
By the way, to train the mind, I recommend trying to re-read our recent history, and not only ours, from the beginning of the 19th century and deeper, only turning everything 180 degrees or somewhere nearby ... An interesting picture turns out ...
Sincerely,

[AllBiBek]

Congratulations, you invented solipsism, known since ancient times. The illusory nature of the world and its dependence on his vision of the picture.

This is normal, it just needs to be structured right away. Otherwise, it will not be long to drown in the grasp of knowledge and unnecessary thoughts.

[Tamparu]

You know, my "solipsism" or, as I put it, "matrix", is based on a little different ...
Now there is a certain "stupor". It is, briefly, expressed in the fact that there is a misunderstanding of the moment of the jump in the technological abrupt transition from the Middle Ages to the technologies that existed at the time of the last pole shift (this is the end of the 15th century in our chronology). Elements of which we can observe even now ... There are several options for discussion, of which ...: "The parallel existence of two independent civilizations, unknown to each other ... or in the historical context, the memory of people was erased from the word completely." Very close in time, we see bows, arrows and clubs with high-tech flooded cities, the remains of dungeons, some of which are used in modern infrastructure, such as the subway, etc.

[AllBiBek]

"To understand the historical period, one must understand what was going on in the minds of the people who inhabited it" © Mark Blok, the founder of medieval studies.

Here the chest opens simply, very much so.

Look, where did the economic leap begin, and due to what.

Protestantism. Protestant Ethics. Do business and live modestly, and if you do everything right, God will reward.

As a result, for the first time in history, profit began to be invested in improving the means of production on an ongoing basis, before that it simply hadn’t occurred to anyone, all the mechanisms - piece or small batch, and for a specific one-time task.

Everything is a little more complicated with the Renaissance, and there the processing of the ancient heritage that fell into the hands after the Arab civilization began to collapse, but this is a separate issue. Merchant city-states at all times and everywhere is a special case.

[kalibr]

Quote: TampaRU

By the way, to train the mind, I recommend trying to re-read our recent history, and not only ours, from the beginning of the 19th century and deeper, only turning everything 180 degrees or somewhere nearby ... An interesting picture turns out ...

Yes, I’m only doing this ...

[kalibr]

Quote: TampaRU

I would become a historian or investigator.

And I’m practically a spy according to attributed documents, and what of this? Has the content of the chronicles changed?

[kalibr]

Quote: TampaRU

it is possible that no one will believe you.

I published a book - THE MOST FAMOUS TANKS OF THE WORLD and I even inserted the "Pareto Law" into the "nanoer" and nothing ... everyone reacted fine. And the last three textbooks on PR and advertising ... there are ... how many. And no world behind the scenes for the pants is missing!

[Tamparu]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: TampaRU

it is possible that no one will believe you.

I published a book - THE MOST FAMOUS TANKS OF THE WORLD and I even inserted the "Pareto Law" into the "nanoer" and nothing ... everyone reacted fine. And the last three textbooks on PR and advertising ... there are ... how many. And no world behind the scenes for the pants is missing!

I apologize, but, unfortunately, I am not familiar with your work.
But the "Pareto rule", in my opinion, will always work. "Nanoera" is the founder of this action, Mr. Chubais, in Russia, at least, is one of the representatives of modern legislators of the existing world civilization. Even if you walked through it as a "roller", and there is no reaction, then there can be many options for conclusions. For PR and advertising, too, unfortunately, I can not say anything, since I have not read it, once again I will forgive me.
Sincerely,

[kalibr]

You can’t read everything in the world. But you can look into the Network, there are all my books there ... And those in England and Germany ...

[Molot1979]

Well, firstly, discussing the Gorbovsky problem is the same as criticizing Karamzin. Gorbovsky is the diaper age of studying the problem. And the current state already completely shares the point of touch of the author. Some kind of cosmic body, but right into the Pacific Ocean ... Everything, it’s too late to give advice, everything is exactly like that there. And even the place of the former North Pole is roughly calculated.
And secondly, I don’t know what about the rocket, but when I saw the mentioned image in a completely Soviet book on the history of ancient American civilizations, it looked like a kind of technical device. It is unlikely that Soviet editors used Deniken ...
But there are other images. For example, a thing that looks great like a moon rover. With wheels, something like a monitor and an antenna of two horns. True, historians declared this an insect pattern. Well, like the famous Colombian model airplanes. I still can’t understand where they unearthed insects with such an unusual tail system.

[AllBiBek]

Hospade, again "golden airplanes of the Incas" from a series of "inappropriate artifacts" and standard argumentation ...

A hundred times already dismantled.

Here, right away and general strokes:

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5cfe1f71d98ba600b18b3ab9/zolotye-samolety-inkov-oni-umeli-letat-ili--5d142b1b91f70500afd9ff7e

[kalibr]

Quote: Molot1979

It is unlikely that Soviet editors used Deniken ...

What could they use? Show me at least one Soviet non-Deniken source on this issue, I mean fig. on the stove?

[kalibr]

Quote: Molot1979

But there are other images.

A woman with horns and a man with a fox tail ... These are new kinds of people, right?

[Tamparu]

[/ Quote]

Quote: kalibr

[quote = Molot1979] But there are other images.

A woman with horns and a man with a fox tail ... These are new kinds of people, right?

At the expense of women with horns and men with a fox tail, I do not know. But I was interested in the fact that there are certain diseases characteristic of only one nation, a group of nationalities from one nation, to be more precise. Very much like genetic engineering. True, I did not really "dive" there, since I don't have enough time ...

[swyatoslav]

Upon reading, it seems that the author did not pursue any goal other than receiving a reward for the number of characters.
The article is not about anything. Empty. The author tried to out of place and petty to reduce (unknown to anyone but him) scores with the "alternative history", flunked the text with quotes without meaning, and that's it ...

[TANKISTONE]

Rave! Seeing Jews again ...

[And Makarov]

Let's go without anti-Semitism

[enky]

Quote: Bar1

failure is not failure, but something else

It seems that Lenin said "Truth is born in a dispute," but there is clearly a dispute, all the more there is no intellectual conversation, anyone can see from a kilometer - there is spitting and discrediting of dissidents, and why? But because they retained the ability to think independently and not in a standard way, unlike those who think in official guidelines and cliches. It doesn't even matter who is right and who is not, it is important that dissidents are difficult to manage, and therefore must be trampled into the mud, otherwise, God forbid, who, using their example, will also try to think and get out of control. You are at war with windmills, one category of spitters physically cannot hear you - propaganda gives blocking installations, any alternative opinion is blasphemy for them; the second category is trolls, on this site there are more of them than cockroaches in Khrushchev, the readers of this site have a specifically military mentality - this is a potentially dangerous category of citizens and the task of trolls is to direct and control their interests and thinking in general ... and you are here with alternative versions - press and press again all those who are trying to think not by order ;-)

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Enky

readers of this site have a specifically military mentality - this is a potentially dangerous category of citizens and the task of trolls is to direct and manage their interests and thinking in general.

Long ago, by the way, I drew attention to this nuance.

[thrust]

Merezhkovsky has a book about it. "Atlantis". He is of course a mystic and in general, but who read it will not regret