Military Review

Poland almost got Swedish submarines

87
Poland almost got Swedish submarines

The likelihood of the arming of the Polish Navy two Swedish diesel-electric submarines has increased significantly. According to the portal defense24.pl, the Swedish Ministry of Defense sent a request to the Parliament for the sale of two Södermanland diesel-electric submarines.


As it became known earlier, the Swedish military has been negotiating with the Polish Ministry of Defense for a long time to sell 2 diesel-electric submarines of the Södermanland type. The Polish Navy command expects that the acquisition of Swedish submarines will significantly increase the combat potential of the republic’s naval forces. According to the plans of Poland, the submarines must act in turn: first, the Swedes will transfer the submarine HMwMS Östergötland, and then the second - HSwMS Södermanland. These submarines should replace the obsolete Kobben type submarines produced in the 60s in the Polish Navy.

Södermanland type submarines are a series of Swedish diesel-electric submarines. The Swedish Navy initially had four submarines of the Västergötlandsklass type, two of which underwent a radical modernization in 2000-2005, having received an elongated hull and VNEU, which is a Stirling engine. After modernization, they received the designation Södermanland - HMwMS Östergötland (commissioned in 1990) and HSwMS Södermanland (commissioned in 1989).

TTX submarine: Underwater displacement - 1500 tons, Maximum length (on design waterline) - 60,5 m, Width - 6,1 m, Average draft - 5,6 m. Power plant - 2 Hedemora Diesel V12A / 15-Ub, 2 diesel engines 160 hp, 2 Kockums v4-275R Stirling engines, 1 propeller shaft. Speed ​​(surface) - 11 knots, underwater - 20 knots, immersion depth - 300 m, autonomy - 45 days, crew - 20 people, including 5 officers.

Armament: 6 bow 533 mm torpedo tubes (12 torpedoes) and 3 bow 400 mm torpedo tubes (6 torpedoes), mines.



Photos used:
defense24.pl
87 comments
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  1. V.I.P.
    V.I.P. April 19 2020 08: 40 New
    0
    I don’t understand, they want to sell them boats from VNEU? And what torpedoes are on them? You can clarify the model and performance characteristics.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 09 New
      +2
      Most likely it will be against the Tr617 ships - they export it.
      For operations against surface ships, the Swedish fleet in 1967 received heavy guided torpedoes FFV Tr 61 without homing in the last segment of the attack using surface ships, submarines and coastal batteries. These 533 mm torpedoes with a length of 7025 mm had a mass of 1796 kg, of which 250 kg - explosive charge. Their range was 20 km at a speed of 45 knots. Based on it, the Tr 613 model was developed with a range of 30 km and a GOS in the last section of the trajectory. The control of the torpedo was carried out using an on-board digital computer (BTsVM), which could lead it to the point of start of the search even in case of damage to the guidance cable. Moreover, the range of this model was 3 ... 5 times higher than the range of modern electric torpedoes at the same speed. The option for exporting under the code of Tr 617 differed from Tr 613 by the GAS software and the system of non-contact fuses.

      And against the submarine Tr43X0.
      Tr432 / 43X0
      Dimensions: Diameter 400 mm (15 3/4 inches); 2,6 m (8 ft. 1/3 in.) or 2,85 m (9 ft. 1/4 in.) length with wire control.
      Total weight: 280 to 350 kg (617 to 772 pounds).
      Warhead: 45 kg (99 lbs) of blasting explosive.
      Additional data: speed 15, 25 or 35 knots .; range 30, 20 or 10 km (18,64, 12,43 or 6,21 miles).

      But I’m just scolding that in the case of a sale it will be so, because it’s logical to export export options together with boats.
      And what is standing on them now - FIG knows him, but I think that it’s about the same.
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather April 19 2020 09: 09 New
      +2
      submarines such as Södermanland.
      better type: "surströmming" ...
      1. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert April 19 2020 10: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Dead Day
        better type: "surströmming" ...

        Dedka, here, apparently, not everyone understood - "surströmming" is a rotten Swedish herring in a bank.
        Disgustingly smelly and inedible for Russians ...
        And the Swedes eat and praise. Your deeds are wonderful, Lord ...
        What is good for the Swedes - the rest is death ... wink
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A April 19 2020 12: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Dead Day
        surströmming

        As I understand it, do the Swedes connect breathing apparatus to their "surströmming"?

        Yeah ... Truly - the taste and color of all the markers are different ...

        I advise the Poles to purchase Italian submarines as well - the Italians will equip the Marz with their cheese - so that they will not be bored on board. Whatever - living creatures.
    3. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer April 19 2020 09: 56 New
      0
      The Swedes can and want to sell, they need to get rid of junk. But is there enough money for the zheks to buy it? Especially in light of the fact that Brussels has already informed Warsaw of a significant reduction in handouts.
      1. Rate
        Rate April 19 2020 10: 37 New
        -3
        Quote: TermNachTER
        The Swedes can and want to sell, they need to get rid of junk. But is there enough money for the zheks to buy it?

        Ukrainian land and women will pay ..))) (joke)

        Quote: TermNachTER
        Especially in light of the fact that Brussels has already informed Warsaw of a significant reduction in handouts.

        The budget for the article "Russophobia" is significantly reduced in Ukraine too .. wink
        1. Peter is not the first
          Peter is not the first April 19 2020 10: 52 New
          0
          No, this article, as a sacred cow, never shrinks, but only grows.
        2. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer April 19 2020 12: 41 New
          -1
          Given that the Pshek want to buy both the F - 35, and much more - vague doubts torment me. Regarding the purchase of Ukrainian land, then the psheks in this queue are the penultimate, immediately before the banderlogs. Regarding women, they have been working on the entire geyrop for a long time - from Moscow to Portugal.
      2. Charik
        Charik April 19 2020 13: 03 New
        -1
        usa podsuetsya 100%
    4. lucul
      lucul April 19 2020 11: 25 New
      +2
      I don’t understand, they want to sell them boats from VNEU?

      I didn’t understand - they want the Poles to sell those submarines that have long and unsuccessfully searched for Russian submarines, but have not found? ))))
      I understand correctly - especially in light of the fact that the Poles are buying these submarines, specifically against Russian submarines? )))
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa April 19 2020 22: 00 New
        0
        There were no Russian submarines

        Time.
        https://topwar.ru/154783-podvodnye-lodki-i-psihologicheskaja-vojna-chast-1.html
        Two.
        https://topwar.ru/155177-podvodnye-lodki-i-psihologicheskaja-vojna-chast-2.html
        1. lucul
          lucul April 20 2020 10: 35 New
          +1
          There were no Russian submarines

          Yes it was sarcasm, sarcasm.
    5. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 April 19 2020 12: 09 New
      -2
      Quote: V.I.P.
      I don’t understand, they want to sell them boats from VNEU?

      no, boats with VNEU (they were separated into a separate type - "Södermanland") were sold to Sigrapur in 2005.
      The Poles will receive the two remaining, without Stirling engines (power plant: three diesels with a capacity of 2200 hp and an electric motor with a capacity of 1350 kilowatts of 1810 hp, one shaft), built according to the original project "Westerjotland"
      On torpedo weapons, the article says. 6 bow 533 mm TA (ammunition 12 torpedoes) and 3 bow 400 mm TA (6 torpedoes)
  2. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 19 2020 08: 41 New
    -2
    Poland almost got Swedish submarines
    Not a fact, they may not swim. What I wish.repeat
  3. Gray brother
    Gray brother April 19 2020 08: 51 New
    -2
    Did the Swedes realize that working stirling is still unmasking?
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 09 New
      -2
      After modernization, they received the designation Södermanland - HMwMS Östergötland (commissioned in 1990) and HSwMS Södermanland (commissioned in 1989).

      It’s just that someone needs to sell their old submarines, so they found the Poles.
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        It’s just that someone needs to sell their old submarines, so they found the Poles.

        I always thought that before you sell old, you must first make new ones.
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 18 New
          -1
          The Swedes do not think so. The circuit of Swedish submarines in nature.
          Among the Swedish submarines are 3 submarines of the Gotland type and 2 submarines of the Södermanland type. 2 more submarines of the Westerjötland type in 2005 were decommissioned by the Swedish Navy and sold to Singapore.


          The Polish military department expects that the Swedish side will first transfer one submarine A17 / Södermanland (HMwMS Östergötland), and then the second submarine (HSwMS Södermanland) will turn.

          But the likely sale of two of the five submarines to Poland does not mean that Sweden intends to reduce its submarine fleet. Stockholm is convinced that at least five submarines are needed for the full defense of Sweden. Therefore, at the same time, the Swedish leadership is in talks with Singapore. This Asian country could sell Sweden two Archer submarines, which were added to the Singapore Navy in 2011 and 2013.

          Interestingly, the Singapore Archer was initially completely not Singaporean, but Swedish submarines. This is the HMwMS Hälsingland and the HMwMS Västergötland, which were once sold to Singapore, where they underwent repairs and upgrades.

          https://topwar.ru/168317-shvecija-moderniziruet-podvodnyj-flot-starye-submariny-prodadut-polshe.html
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 21 New
            0
            Quote: Sky Strike fighter
            The Swedes do not think so.

            Well, the flag in their hands.
        2. rudolff
          rudolff April 19 2020 09: 19 New
          +5
          So they did Gotland. And Gotland will be replaced by A-26. The Swedes are all right with the submarine.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 27 New
            +1
            Quote: rudolff
            So they did Gotland. And Gotland will be replaced by A-26.

            Not familiar with the topic. Gotland three, the rest will push and write off ... no, some garbage turns out.
            1. rudolff
              rudolff April 19 2020 10: 08 New
              +2
              So their three buildings are quite happy. And the A26 will be no more in the series.
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa April 19 2020 12: 28 New
                +3
                Quote: rudolff
                So their three buildings are quite happy.

                Rudolph, hello buddy! Happy holiday, health and health again! drinks
                In fact:
                The fleet command believes that they need 5-6 units to defend the country. Therefore, they ordered only 2 A26 hulls. As the A19 ages, it will be replaced by 26 cars. By the way, they continue to improve them. For the Baltic, this is "wunder schön"! Our 677 must catch up with her, if we do not want to go with empty ports.
                AHA.
                1. rudolff
                  rudolff April 19 2020 12: 40 New
                  +2
                  Hello buddy! Happy holiday!
                  drinks
          2. novel66
            novel66 April 19 2020 10: 04 New
            +2
            But how do they unfold in the fjords ??
        3. donavi49
          donavi49 April 19 2020 09: 20 New
          +5
          They are just building two new A26 boats.



          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 29 New
            -1
            Wow. 18 KR on board? Tomahawks, as I understand it? By the way, similar vertical launchers should be installed on the Lada NAPL. Relatively cheap and cheerful, if each Lada NPL carried 18-20 Caliber. In the Lada (Amur) export project, vertical launchers were planned
            under 10 KR. Why is our MO not interested in or
            when launching from torpedo tubes more ammunition of the KR?
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer April 19 2020 10: 02 New
              -1
              18 "axes" on such a small boat is not even funny. Even if there are no other weapons, they can be accommodated only if the crew travels on the upper deck.
            2. venik
              venik April 19 2020 11: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              The Lada (Amur) export project included the installation of vertical launchers
              under 10 KR. Why our MO is not interested

              =======
              Yes, it seems like it was interesting .... In 2011, they even started building:

              Hull structures of the submarine "Amur-1650" pr.677E on the LAO embankment, Saint Petersburg, November 3, 2011
              But then, something stalled ..... Either foreign customers began to "twirl their noses", or they expect VNEU, and somehow it "stalled" (maybe because of "sanctions"?) ...
              In general, for now, "it's clear that nothing is clear" .....
              And besides, in terms of displacement and dimensions, the Amur-1650 is close to small nuclear submarines, but at the same time, they SIGNIFICANTLY lose to them in ALL indicators, except for noise!
              1. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 11: 40 New
                -2
                This happens when they begin to build at first, and only then think. But the topic of NPL with the Kyrgyz Republic following the example of A-26 is very promising. We should not lag behind here. This is the future. Is it interesting to place vertical launchers on the conditionally modernized NAPL Lada 2-3, similar to those standing on the same Ash-M?
          2. Gray brother
            Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 35 New
            0
            Quote: donavi49
            They are just building two new A26 boats.

            I read about it. They don’t even have enclosures yet.
            If not built, then Saab Kockums fails.
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa April 19 2020 12: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Gray Brother
              They don’t even have enclosures yet.

              Laid down and under construction. The first building is under construction from IX-2015. The transfer to the fleet after testing and eliminating comments is planned in 2022.
              The boat is interesting. Displacement 1900t, length 63m, widest - 6,4m, 4 NTA x 533mm, plus an armament compartment, where there will be a PRK (3 x 7), on board there will be underwater AT (drones). Improved DS. Now the underwater route is up to 7,0 knots (it was 5). Systems have already been developed on the advanced Gotland. So, I don’t see what could prevent them from meeting the deadlines.
        4. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 19 2020 12: 19 New
          -1
          Quote: Gray Brother
          I always thought that before you sell old, you must first make new ones.

          the Swedes have newer submarines of the "Gotland" type, also with Stirling engines.
          During joint exercises with the US Navy, boats showed excellent stealth.
          1. Gray brother
            Gray brother April 19 2020 12: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Gregory_45
            During joint exercises with the US Navy, boats showed excellent stealth.

            On an electric motor - it’s quite possible. However, stirling pistons threshes in the same way as diesel.
            1. Sergey S.
              Sergey S. April 20 2020 00: 14 New
              0
              Quote: Gray Brother
              However, stirling pistons threshes in the same way as diesel.

              Not at all like that.
              The velocity of the working fluid is up to about 40-60 m / s - it is very far from sound.
              No timing mechanisms - no valve noise.
              Piston seals made of composite materials based on Teflon type - piston shifting also does not knock.
              Changing the pressure of the cycle is almost a harmonic line - there is no knocking of shifts in the mechanism ...
              Specifically, the noise parameters have not been published, but, I assure you, when the Stirling generator is working a meter away, you can safely talk.
              That is, the noise of the installation with a good Stirling engine is largely determined by auxiliary mechanisms ....
              1. Gray brother
                Gray brother April 20 2020 01: 36 New
                -1
                Quote: Sergey S.
                No timing mechanisms -

                There, instead, the compressor is noisy which cleans the combustion products. Suddenly - a meter away from a working diesel engine, you can also talk calmly.
                1. Sergey S.
                  Sergey S. April 20 2020 08: 20 New
                  0
                  Quote: Gray Brother
                  Quote: Sergey S.
                  No timing mechanisms -

                  There, instead, the compressor is noisy which cleans the combustion products.

                  In the very first version of 1988, on the French scientific boat SAGA I or on the first Swedish combat boat "Nacken", a pressure of about 22 bar was maintained in the Stirling combustion chamber and at a depth of 200 m the combustion products were removed from the side by cooled gravity without high speed. If the depth was greater, the gases were temporarily collected in a container, which was blown through during the ascent.
                  So do without a compressor ... This is one of Stirling's strengths.
                  Quote: Gray Brother
                  Suddenly - a meter away from a working diesel engine, you can also talk calmly.

                  Yes of course...
                  But next to the working Stirling, you can talk quietly ... The noise of the working process approximately corresponds to the noise of the brush generator ...
                  1. Gray brother
                    Gray brother April 20 2020 12: 05 New
                    0
                    Quote: Sergey S.
                    l pressure of about 22 bar and at a depth of up to 200 m, combustion products were removed by chilled gravity without high speed

                    At a pressure of 22 bar (22 atmospheres) there will be just gravity at high speed, you still need a compressor that will stuff it all into the receiver under high pressure and will slowly bleed it out, otherwise it won’t work.
                    1. Sergey S.
                      Sergey S. April 20 2020 13: 54 New
                      0
                      Quote: Gray Brother
                      At a pressure of 22 bar (22 atmospheres) there will be just gravity at high speed, you still need a compressor that will stuff it all into the receiver under high pressure and will slowly bleed it out, otherwise it won’t work.

                      The question is apparently too complicated ...
                      But as part of the schemes that were published before 1988, there was no high-pressure compressor in the removal system. Bypassed by gravity and pumps for supplying fuel and dosing oxygen into the combustion chamber under pressure.
                      1. Gray brother
                        Gray brother April 20 2020 14: 02 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        Bypassed by gravity and pumps for supplying fuel and dosing oxygen into the combustion chamber under pressure.

                        So the valve system was still there to relieve pressure in this case, the combustion products must go through the valve into a large volume tank to reduce pressure, and it is desirable to have a cooling system in which they expand and cool, and from there again through the valve or the valve system will flow out at a lower speed.
                        It is even better to have several such tanks so that the process goes stepwise.
                      2. Sergey S.
                        Sergey S. April 20 2020 18: 04 New
                        0
                        Quote: Gray Brother
                        So the valve system was still there

                        And why pretend that you do not understand the essence and replace the engine gas valves with valves of pneumohydraulic systems?
                        The latter is enough at every underwater facility ...

                        Writing a resembling system of underwater technical means does not make sense. These are complex systems, and they are not made on the knee.

                        If interested, try searching for articles from United Stirling (now Kockums) engineers by the title "Air Independent Stirling Engine" or
                        "Air independent stirling energy system" ...
                      3. Gray brother
                        Gray brother April 20 2020 18: 09 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        And why pretend that you do not understand the essence and replace the engine gas valves with valves of pneumohydraulic systems?

                        Who cares? There simply are no inlets, and graduations must be.
                      4. Sergey S.
                        Sergey S. April 20 2020 18: 12 New
                        0
                        Quote: Gray Brother
                        Who cares? There simply are no inlets, and graduations must be.

                        We arrived ...
                        The exhaust system does not knock ...
                      5. Gray brother
                        Gray brother April 20 2020 18: 17 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sergey S.
                        The exhaust system does not knock ...

                        Why should they knock? The pressure in the combustion chamber increased - the valve opened.
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat April 19 2020 09: 55 New
    0
    The Swedes realized that thirty-year-old submarines can be shed off by the Papuans and ordered something newer.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa April 19 2020 12: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Gray Brother
    Did the Swedes realize that working stirling is still unmasking?
    Well, if only on the thermal trail ... And so a low-noise thing. True VNEU on ECG is 4 times quieter than DS. But this is in theory.
    Swedes are not magnetic, quiet, dangerous ...
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 19 2020 19: 47 New
      -1
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      . And so a low-noise thing

      It differs from the internal combustion engine only in that it has external combustion, and there the same pistons are threshed.
      This is fawn.
  • Amateur
    Amateur April 19 2020 09: 11 New
    0
    Poland almost got swedish submarines

    There was a trifle left - to persuade the bride (Khoji Nasretdin)

    The only thing left is to find the money or persuade the Swedes to present, or persuade the Germans to pay the Swedes for them.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 19 2020 09: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Amateur
      Swedes

      Is this surname such a tunnels? Who are they?
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 19 2020 10: 03 New
        +2
        these are other different ... in Mayakovsky
    2. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first April 19 2020 10: 58 New
      +1
      It remains only to find the money, because it appears from the article that the Swedish military themselves offered to sell these two boats.
      The Germans will not give money, because they could sell their own to the Poles, but here the boats are not German, but Swedish. But the Americans can give a loan under the simultaneous obligation to expand the purchase of their gas.
    3. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 19 2020 11: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: Amateur
      The only thing left is to find the money or persuade the Swedes to present, or persuade the Germans to pay the Swedes for them.

      They will look for penyonza, because they practically have no submarine fleet.
      The Swedes are not Russian, they will strangle themselves and not give them. They are very tight-fisted, which is why they live so well. But this is "not our style": do not feed us with bread, but let 10-20 lards "forgive" the Papuans ...
      The Germans recognized the genocide of the Jews and have already paid for the Holocaust, well, at a cheap price they built type 800 (Dolphin-anaerobic with missile weapons!).
      And they consider Pshek people of the second grade and, on occasion, always beat the face. (repeatedly seen). Although Kaczynski is in awe of paying reparations to them, the Germans will not pay them anything.
      The pans also tried to download compensation for the "Soviet occupation" from us. This is their style.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M April 19 2020 21: 37 New
        -1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        They will look for penyonza, because they practically have no submarine fleet.

        there is and is actively engaged in BP
        see the photo on the courage forums
        and this is an alarming intelligence sign (namely the "emergency purchase" of BU of the Swedes)
  • Fedorov
    Fedorov April 19 2020 09: 17 New
    -1
    But they can get, Well, that's normal. How much have they sold to Vietnam? A lot more. But ours.
  • Tiksi-3
    Tiksi-3 April 19 2020 09: 48 New
    0
    What kind of article - ALMOST ????? ... damn ... I almost learned the dog language .....
  • APASUS
    APASUS April 19 2020 09: 51 New
    0
    What does Poland have a choice?
    Everything that the West writes off, then goes to serve in the naval forces of the "partner" countries, or, in short, beggars. And they transfer their old stuff to Africa, to countries like Ukraine or Georgia
  • sanik2020
    sanik2020 April 19 2020 10: 04 New
    +1
    It’s just that the Poles are now replacing everything at once, and therefore they are buying for which there is enough money both new and used. For them, the main thing is to get rid of everything Soviet, that's all.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 19 2020 19: 48 New
      -2
      Quote: sanik2020
      Poles

      Same surname? What kind of families are these? I do not understand.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 19 2020 10: 06 New
    -2
    10-12 corvettes pr.20380 with a good gas will bury all the dreams of Polish
    "conquerors" in the Baltic.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa April 19 2020 22: 08 New
      +1
      It took 17 years to build six such corvettes. YES and the anti-submarine is curved from 20380, at least it needs normal torpedo tubes instead of the rubbish that it’s standing there, torpedo launchers in the onboard compartments, new GPA devices and more, and ideally, small PLUR which can be launched with an inclined guide, like the Chinese at 056.

      And also to rewrite the regulatory framework for the use of helicopters and come up with a new helicopter torpedo - the old karachun came.

      It's not so simple with us. In fact, if everything goes as it is now, then we must either hit first, or there will be a repeat of 1941. No options.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 19 2020 10: 09 New
    0
    The Baltic Sea is very shallow. Any submarine in it is easily whipped.
    Except maybe mini-scouts.
    1. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first April 19 2020 11: 01 New
      0
      In the northern part of Europe they like to look for a black cat in a dark room, especially if we did not send her there. wink Well, at least not sent as often as they seek.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 19 2020 12: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Baltic Sea is very shallow. Any submarine in it is easily whipped.

      Very nasty hydrology. Then, in shallow water, there is such a reverberation that only digital GUS can figure out where the interference is and where the target is. And that's not always the case. And the Swedes built their boats in accordance with the characteristics of the navigation area. They do not climb into the Atlantic, although they can misbehave there too. Suffice it to recall how Gotland put the entire PLO of the American AVU "Ronald Reagan" to shame in 2007.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 19 2020 12: 20 New
        -1
        I read that it is so small that the submarine at the bottom is just visible optically from an airplane.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa April 19 2020 12: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          I read that it is so small that the submarine at the bottom is just visible optically from an airplane.

          In the Gulf of Bothnia, depths up to 400-470m. The water is opaque, a lot of suspension, and in shallow water no one in their right mind will climb. With aviation PLO in the Baltic seams!
          So, not ICE !!!
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M April 19 2020 21: 38 New
            -1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            and in shallow water no one in their right mind will climb

            will climb
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa April 19 2020 23: 02 New
              +1
              Quote: Fizik M
              will climb

              Maksim, hi
              Deutschers can. But on the approaches to the naval base depth of 30-50m, a map of false contacts, so that you can’t lie down on the ground. They will set mines, for sure, but they themselves are unlikely to hunt. And in the Republic of Kazakhstan, it is possible to cut off the MLM and barriers of the RSLB. On the aisles they will put Grachat with the OGAS and will be on duty at the foot.
              So, it’s unlikely ...
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 26 New
                -1
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                But on the approaches to the naval base depth of 30-50m, a map of false contacts, so that you can’t lie down on the ground

                it’s not necessary to transfer our limitations on BP and submarine management to combat capabilities
                in the Second World War and in Odessa shallow water submarines fought
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 21: 38 New
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Baltic Sea is very shallow. Any submarine in it is easily whipped.

      don't bullshit hurt her
      see recent articles with mine with Timokhin on PLO
  • venik
    venik April 19 2020 10: 11 New
    -3
    "... These submarines should replace the obsolete Kobben-class submarines produced in the 60s in the Polish Navy. ..."
    =========
    Interestingly, boats of the "Södermanland" type, put into operation in 1990 (even if they were equipped with VNEU in 2000-2005) - this must be understood, according to Polish concepts "novye"? wassat
    1. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first April 19 2020 11: 02 New
      +2
      Two times newer that's for sure.
      1. venik
        venik April 19 2020 11: 35 New
        -1
        Quote: Peter is not the first
        Two times newer that's for sure.

        ========
        good Then - definitely "NEW"! .... At least for the proud "pshek". drinks
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 21: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: venik
      it must be understood, according to the Polish novye?

      no, they really wanted new ones with SLCM
      but the fact of emergency procurement is a very alarming intelligence sign
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft April 19 2020 10: 43 New
    +1
    And why "orphans" are not satisfied with German submarines, the latter slap them like pies .... even Israeli Jews and Turks buy them ...
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Lara Croft
      And why the "orphans" are not satisfied with the German submarines, the latter spank them like pies

      there is a vague suspicion that the Germans are not very good at selling them to psheks
      for they know why they are to them ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 April 19 2020 10: 53 New
    0
    What about what, and lousy about the bath.
    They want, but figs with them, very much more meaningfully this will not make them.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 19 2020 10: 57 New
    +2
    No need to laugh dear, many of us are twice as old as these boats, so 30 years is the prime of life. lol
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 29 New
      -1
      Quote: Ros 56
      No need to laugh dear, many of us are twice as old as these boats, so 30 years is the prime of life

      the question is in the resource of the solid case, which for the most part is simply exhausted
  • Topol M
    Topol M April 19 2020 12: 14 New
    0
    You can almost get tripper or syphilis! And the boats are there or not
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 31 New
      -1
      Quote: Poplar M
      You can almost get tripper or syphilis! And the boats are there or not

      a friend of mine served on a project 641 diesel engine, "prohibitive" in terms of time (with half the immersion depth - limitations) and described in paints how it flowed
  • timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa April 19 2020 22: 10 New
    0
    In general, I wonder why Poland, which already has 7 submarines, has more submarines? Money nowhere to go? Or are they going to war?
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: timokhin-aa
      In general, I wonder why Poland, which already has 7 submarines, has more submarines? Money nowhere to go? Or are they going to war?

      877E is outdated, worn out, weakly suitable for the Baltic
      ex-Norwegians have already been partially written off, and definitely with restrictions - for age is more than ...
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa April 20 2020 09: 18 New
        0
        Then suddenly they will repair 877, the three Cobbens and a plus to them will be a couple of Swedish. Surprise.
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M April 19 2020 23: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    On the aisles they will put Grachat with OGAS and will be on duty at the foot.

    funny
    Grachenok - the most idiotic and corrupt project of the Navy of the last generation
    what will he "catch" will be? "Anapa" and "Squid"? - do not make me laugh ...
    and "amaze"? RG-55 ??? belay
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 19 2020 23: 54 New
    -2
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    It took 17 years to build six such corvettes. YES and the anti-submarine is curved from 20380, at least it needs normal torpedo tubes instead of the rubbish that it’s standing there, torpedo launchers in the onboard compartments, new GPA devices and more, and ideally, small PLUR which can be launched with an inclined guide, like the Chinese at 056.

    And also to rewrite the regulatory framework for the use of helicopters and come up with a new helicopter torpedo - the old karachun came.

    It's not so simple with us. In fact, if everything goes as it is now, then we must either hit first, or there will be a repeat of 1941. No options.

    And why then ... The fight against NAPL should be his priority. Why then 12 billion rubles?
  • radiovizit
    radiovizit April 20 2020 18: 53 New
    0
    In general, in the event of a NATO "run over" to Russia, the "junior partners" (read "untermensch") from Bulgaria, Poland and the "Sprat Confederation" will be the first to die again, and the "advanced Europeans" will see what came out of this "movement" and they will also otmazhutsya that they are "not in business" and will make them scapegoats if the "response" is very "hot" ... And the Poles will start, as always, by tradition. the same way they will get it!