Military Review

Work on the destroyer "Leader" and frigates of the project 22350M suspended

127
Work on the destroyer "Leader" and frigates of the project 22350M suspended

The development of the promising nuclear destroyer of project 23560 Leader and the advanced frigate of project 22350M were suspended indefinitely due to the absence of a decision by the Ministry of Defense. This is stated in the annual report of the Northern PCB for 2019.


According to the document, the Northern Design Bureau (PKB) suspended the work on the Leader nuclear destroyer immediately after the outline design, which was carried out in 2015-1016, was decided on by the Ministry of Defense back in 2016. Regarding the improved frigate of project 22350M, it is reported that after the completion of the preliminary design in 2019, the military did not take any decision on further work on the project.

Moreover, both projects are mentioned in the PCB annual report as the most promising projects of the company.

The fact that the design work on a promising nuclear destroyer for the Navy fleet Russia actually stopped, it was reported in February this year. At the same time, it was clarified that the reason for stopping the project was the lack of funds for the project and its postponement to a later date. Work is underway on an initiative basis.

Regarding the improved frigate of project 22350M, in December last year it was reported that the technical design of the ship was already ready. According to the head of the USC, Alexei Rakhmanov, the construction of the lead ship may begin this year subject to adequate funding, but no decision has yet been made on it.

According to available information, the new frigate will carry 48 missiles in six installations, unlike project 22350 frigates, carrying 16 missiles and two modernized ships laid down in April 2019, designed for 24 missiles.
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  1. Valery Valery
    Valery Valery April 19 2020 06: 30 New
    +5

    About "Leader" - I will not say, I do not know. But about the ships of the project 22350m - not true !!! All work continues!
    1. Aleksandr21
      Aleksandr21 April 19 2020 08: 15 New
      21
      Quote: Valery Valery
      But about the ships of the project 22350m - not true !!! All work continues!


      How can they continue if the project developer has suspended development? According to open data, before the end of 2019, they had to complete the technical appearance of the ship and prepare documentation. But in recent times there has been silence at 22350m, and here is such unpleasant news .... although honestly expected.
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 08: 23 New
      -4
      When will the 22350M project be completed? And then someone says that they can be built at least tomorrow, someone that the project is not ready yet.
      Quote from the article.
      Regarding the improved frigate of project 22350M, in December last year it was reported that the technical design of the ship was already ready. According to the head of the USC, Alexei Rakhmanov, the construction of the lead ship may begin this year subject to adequate funding, but no decision has yet been made on it.

      It’s just that the money has already been allocated for this year, is it coming out and the start of construction of the 22350M is shifting to the right?
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 April 19 2020 08: 37 New
        +3
        MOSCOW, April 18. / TASS /. Further work on the creation of the modernized frigate of project 22350M was suspended after the development of the draft design of the ship due to the lack of a customer's decision. This is stated in the report of JSC "Northern Design Bureau" (Northern PKB, part of JSC "United Shipbuilding Corporation, USC), published on the company's website.

        The document says that in December 2019, the development of a preliminary design of the ship of the ocean zone 22350M was completed. The commission, appointed by the Department of Defense for the provision of state defense orders, carried out the acceptance of the preliminary design. On December 25, a commission act was submitted to the department with a proposal to accept the work performed.

        Nevertheless, at the time of the report formation, there was no "subsequent decision of the Customer to start the work planned on its (draft design 22350M - TASS) basis".
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 08: 45 New
          -8
          According to the head of the USC, Alexei Rakhmanov, the construction of the lead ship may begin this year subject to adequate funding, but no decision has yet been made on it.


          On December 25, a commission act was submitted to the department with a proposal to accept the work performed.

          Nevertheless, at the time of the report formation, there was no "subsequent decision of the Customer to start the work planned on its (draft design 22350M - TASS) basis".

          The decision has not yet been made. It is possible to clarify the parameters and performance characteristics of the future 22350M. There may be changes in the requirements of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to 22350M. Here and took a break.
          1. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 April 19 2020 08: 51 New
            +6
            In my opinion, there is a contradiction here, Rahman talked about the completion of the technical project, and the developer only that they completed the preliminary design. And there is nothing confirming the completion of the technical project (except for Rakhman’s words), so here he clearly gave out his wish for the reality, or he meant a draft project that the commission adopted in December. But on the basis of the conceptual design, those were to begin. designing, but since there was no solution to the MO, the developer must clearly know what documentation to prepare and what requirements the MO sets to 22350M, and then there is silence .... and as I understand it, the technical design is not ready.
            1. Sky strike fighter
              Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 08: 57 New
              -4
              I’m saying that the requirements for the project are being clarified by the RF Ministry of Defense. You need to know what to design, what parameters should be met, and the requirements for the project should be formulated by the military, and so far they only seem to make them up. Here they took a break.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 19 2020 09: 09 New
                13
                Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                I say the requirements for the project are being clarified by the RF Ministry of Defense.

                With the highest degree of probability - you are mistaken.
                Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                you need to know what exactly to design, what parameters to match

                And all this had to be taken into account when developing a conceptual design. Technical is a completely different stage.
                1. spectr
                  spectr April 20 2020 09: 07 New
                  -1
                  And now, is there still a sketch project left somewhere? For 10 years I participated in three works. All went according to one scenario. Dust off the documentation from the archives and began immediately with the technical project.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 20 2020 09: 13 New
                    +3
                    In the case of the Leader, it was hardly possible to use the archive, ships of this type were not developed in the Russian Federation, 21956 is quite different, and the latest atomic studies of the USSR are also quite wrong
                    1. spectr
                      spectr April 20 2020 09: 35 New
                      +1
                      Maybe the marine theme lives differently. From personal experience, I see that if there is no backlog from the archive, then knocking money out of the Ministry of Defense to develop a new product, and then not overwhelming the work, is almost unrealistic. And current developments look like this:
                      - enterprises / organizations, through their lobbyists, monitor the current interest of the Ministry of Defense;
                      - as soon as the information is received within 2-3 months, help-offers are formed (usually from several organizations), which you can’t do from scratch. There are craftsmen who make such inquiries from scratch. But in those cases that I know, the products did not pass state tests;
                      - the best proposal forms the basis of the statement of work (and the winner of the tender is immediately determined automatically. There have been cases when the compiler of the certificate and the contractor are different organizations, but this also does not end with anything good).
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 20 2020 19: 00 New
                        +1
                        Quote: spectr
                        Maybe the marine theme lives differently.

                        Likely.
                        Quote: spectr
                        From personal experience, I see that if there is no backlog from the archive, then knocking money out of the Ministry of Defense to develop a new product, and then not overwhelming the work, is almost unrealistic.

                        I know :))) But, apparently, it is not so with the fleet, and I don’t even know if this is good or bad.
                        Corvette 20380 was made, it was modernized until 20385, no, for some incomprehensible 20386 give it, which is a completely different ship. 22160 is also a remake. Couldn't in 677 Lada, let's design a new "Kalina", although then they dropped it, etc.
              2. Aleksandr21
                Aleksandr21 April 19 2020 09: 10 New
                0
                Quite possibly. The main thing is that the economic crisis does not interfere with the implementation of plans .... so we'll see. In the course of the year, in any case, it will be clear whether the MO plans to allocate money for the completion of the project, or whether the project is pushed into the long box.
                1. shahor
                  shahor April 20 2020 17: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Aleksandr21
                  Does the MO plan to allocate money to complete the project?

                  That's really true: if you want to make the Almighty laugh, tell him about your plans!
    3. Cympak
      Cympak April 19 2020 17: 55 New
      +1
      Information from the official Annual Report of the Sulfur PCB for 2019
      http://www.severnoe.com/about/ustav_docs/docs/proj_annual_report_2019.pdf
      The totality of existing and real prospective contractual work under the state defense order and military-technical cooperation ensures the production load of the Company, but does not allow relying on
      stable financial and economic situation, as evidenced by the following examples:

      - the suspension by the Customer of the previously planned development of work (with the scope of work in 2017-2019) for project 23560 after completion of the preliminary design of 23560 in 2016;

      - completion of the preliminary design of 22350M in 2019 and the absence of a subsequent decision by the Customer on the start of the work planned on its basis;

      - the implementation by the Company of an advance project of a promising large landing ship in 2018, the approval by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation of a tactical and technical task for this ship, the appointment of the Company as the sole contractor and the subsequent refusal of the Customer to complete this work as a whole.
    4. venik
      venik April 19 2020 22: 57 New
      -4
      Quote: Valery Valery
      But about the ships of the project 22350m - not true !!! All work continues!

      =========
      God forbid! Well, okay - "Leader"! The thing is expensive, but now, with this fucking "coronavirus", the problems in the economy will be "above the roof" ..... You can wait ...
      But the 22350M is badly needed! Moreover - REQUIRED! Hopefully there will be no excessive puffs! I'd like to hope ...
  2. Mitroha
    Mitroha April 19 2020 06: 33 New
    21
    But when will this daisy end? We are building, we are not building.
    If this is an initiative project, then why constant information stuffing, that everything is supposed to be built, everything has been decided?
    Is the Northern PKB attracting attention, or will it still not be resolved in the Moscow Region?
    I'm talking about 22350m, of course.
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 April 19 2020 08: 31 New
      12
      Quote: Mitroha
      But when will this daisy end? We are building, we are not building.

      it will end when the talking heads stop trying to say that they WILL COMING SOON, WE WILL BE PERFORMING THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, etc. News should be a fact and announce delirium and harm for a year!
      1. Wasilii
        Wasilii April 19 2020 09: 00 New
        -1
        laughing laughing So, you, my friend, and before the overthrow of the dust, you can agree. Talking heads are our everything. More precisely, that's it.
        1. Tiksi-3
          Tiksi-3 April 19 2020 09: 24 New
          +3
          Quote: Wasilii
          So, you, my friend, and before the overthrow of the dust

          he already sat down his own, it’s time to retire and I for this with all extremities
    2. bayard
      bayard April 19 2020 09: 05 New
      19
      With respect to project 22350M, the delay is most likely due to the unavailability of the power plant for this ship. It (GEM) should be a pure gas turbine on the M70FRU and M90FR, but apparently the testing and development of this unit is somewhat delayed, and laying ships (as expected next year) without having a ready and tested GEM for them is a risk unjustified, the series may again hang . Therefore, apparently, there was talk that the decision was made to build an additional 22350+ series (at 24 UVP) for the Black Sea Fleet. Not to stand idle to capacities.
      And if so, then perhaps this is the most balanced decision - to continue the series of ships already mastered by the industry, while they bring the power plants to their next iteration (22350M).
      And I cannot speak about the fact that work on the nuclear destroyer "Leader" has been stopped, except without delight and deep satisfaction. Refuse the ship cost. $ 2 billion (up to RUB 200 billion) is very, VERY wise. It is much more useful to build 5 - 6 frigates 22350 or 4 - 5 22350M for the same money.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 19 2020 09: 25 New
        +9
        Quote: bayard
        Abandon ship cost. in 2 billion dollars (up to 200 billion rubles) it is very, very wise.

        I don't think Leader is worth that much. I guess its price is much higher. In Soviet times, the cost of a TARKR of the "Kiev" type came close to that of a TAVKR of the 1143.5 type, that is, to Kuznetsov
        Quote: bayard
        It is much more useful to build for the same money 5 - 6 frigates 22350 or 4 - 5 22350M.

        They feel the price tag is also significantly higher. If we take 20380 corvettes, then in 2016 the corvettes laid down in 2014 showed a price of 17,3 billion rubles. It is difficult to understand what course to compare, but according to my ideas, the corvette pulls out at least $ 250 million. Accordingly, it should be expected that 22350 is aiming for $ 500 million
        1. bayard
          bayard April 19 2020 09: 54 New
          +9
          The price of the "head" Gorshkov was within 27 billion rubles, now its price will be about 40 billion rubles. I don’t think it will be higher, because inflation is YES of course, but serial production also matters. , plus fiddling with tests and fine-tuning the head So that 40 billion, well, maybe with a tail is its red price.
          Well, and "Leader" ... 2 billion was announced 5 years ago, but the experience of building nuclear icebreakers showed that not everything is going smoothly there - with a power plant, so the head one would definitely not be cheaper than 2,5 billion dollars. , and this is nonsense. And, by the way, this is exactly the amount that our St. Petersburg shipbuilders estimated the cost of the promising non-nuclear aircraft carrier VI 40-50 thousand tons at 2-2,5 billion dollars. So your comparison with "Leader" with "Kuznetsov" for the price is quite justified. Only if our sculptors had taken such an order, they would have received a guaranteed long-term construction. So let it be better to build already mastered projects and saturate the fleet with the ships it needs so much.
          drinks Christ is Risen !
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 19 2020 14: 52 New
            +5
            Quote: bayard
            Christ is Risen !

            Truly risen! hi drinks
            Quote: bayard
            So 40 billion, well, maybe with a tail - this is its red price.

            Quite possible. Moreover, in today's courses this is 540 million dollars.
            Quote: bayard
            Well, and "Leader" ... 2 billion was announced 5 years ago

            Oh sure. But at that stage of development, these were estimates according to the principle of "half-finger-ceiling", and since then, as I understand it, the destroyer has grown somewhat in size ...
            Quote: bayard
            And, by the way, this is the exact amount that our St. Petersburg shipbuilders estimated the cost of the promising non-nuclear aircraft carrier VI 40-50 thousand tons at 2-2,5 billion dollars. So your comparison with "Leader" with "Kuznetsov" for the price is quite justified.

            I am glad that we agree. I also believe that "Leaders" is a mistake
      2. Elturisto
        Elturisto April 20 2020 17: 36 New
        -1
        There are no correct comment engines, and apparently there will never be ...
        1. bayard
          bayard April 20 2020 18: 31 New
          0
          Engines are already there, in any case, turbo-diesel couples for 22350, soon the first frigate will be launched from the domestic power plant and before the end of the year (as planned) the first sea trials. Then it is possible fine-tuning, elimination of childhood diseases and - normal serial production.
          That is why, until the first power plant is brought to its final perfection, launch a new power plant in a series of (experimental), for a new ship, on the same gas turbines with speed increase on one gearbox ... you need to wait, bring the first to the normal series and take up the second .
          This is a lag of about two years.
          And in order not to lose this time in vain, 4 frigates 22350+, 2 each year, will be laid down (most likely). For the Black Sea Fleet.
          And then - laying 22350M and building at a normal pace - 4 - 5 years (5 years for the head). The novelty rate will be at 22350M percent of 15-20, which is normal for the development of industry.
          1. Elturisto
            Elturisto April 21 2020 21: 33 New
            -2
            Boo-boo-boo-quoting you- "the descent is coming soon ...", "it was planned by the end of the year ...", "then perhaps the debugging", "need to wait", "will be laid", "with the plus of revolutions" and then a bookmark ... "coefficient of novelty ..." ... - calm down already clown ...
  3. Hermit21
    Hermit21 April 19 2020 06: 45 New
    10
    What is a 22350M frigate? The destroyer is the real
  4. DMB 75
    DMB 75 April 19 2020 06: 53 New
    12
    Work on the destroyer "Leader" and frigates of the project 22350M suspended

    Not surprised.
    1. Grits
      Grits April 19 2020 08: 23 New
      +6
      Quote: DMB 75
      Not surprised.

      When the next "effective earner" of some kind of "national property" buys another next yacht, costing several such frigates, I will not be surprised all the more.
  5. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 19 2020 07: 02 New
    +5
    Now the dilemma "build not build" ends, but the couch admirals have a "wet dreamy" trump card - if only the "leader" was built ...
    Well, all the members of the forum on a holiday!
    1. bayard
      bayard April 19 2020 09: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Well, all the members of the forum on a holiday!

      Mutually!
      Already talked.
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 19 2020 07: 11 New
    12
    It's hard for me to understand all this whistle. You can’t say otherwise. There are not enough funds for the construction, for oh, how much money is available for the simultaneous design and construction of 10 projects of different types of grafting at once. If there is no money, then why invent, build what is already founded by the shipyards, each subsequent ship in the series will be a little cheaper, or a little more expensive
    (due to inflation), but certainly will not become a single diamond. It went poorly with the 22350 frigates, so lay as many of them as there were enough funds and production capabilities.
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 08: 16 New
      0
      On April 28, two more 22350 frigates will be laid in St. Petersburg, where the ammunition will be expanded to 24 KR. By the way, on the same day, 2 ships of the Yasen-M projects and the latest UDC in the Crimea will be laid down. So without panic.
      The modernized Russian frigates of Project 22350 can receive up to 24 Zircon hypersonic missiles. We are talking about the seventh and eighth ships of the series, which are planned to be laid in the near future. In addition, the already under construction "Admiral Amelko" and "Admiral Chichagov" will also expand their ammunition, writes TASS, citing its own sources in the defense industry.

      https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3257874
      1. Tiksi-3
        Tiksi-3 April 19 2020 08: 42 New
        12
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        On April 28, two more 22350 frigates will be laid in St. Petersburg, where the ammunition will be expanded to 24 KR. By the way, on the same day, 2 ships of the Yasen-M projects and the latest UDC in the Crimea will be laid down.

        It’s not tricky to start a business; No shifts for any reason !!
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 08: 52 New
          -2
          That's right, and so that without shifts and without a thousand changes during the construction, as we have taken into account the constantly changing requirements for projects from the RF Ministry of Defense, it is necessary to clarify in advance what exactly the MO wants from the same 22350M, so that it is not constantly redone during the course and it did not turn into a long-term construction. Perhaps for this reason, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation took a break to work out the requirements for technical specifications 22350M, to decide what exactly to lay.
      2. Wasilii
        Wasilii April 19 2020 09: 02 New
        -3
        lol lol lol In a decent society, do not quote the news
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 04 New
          0
          And what is interestingly quoted in a decent society?
        2. sabakina
          sabakina April 19 2020 12: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Wasilii
          lol lol lol In a decent society, do not quote the news

          In a decent society, the messenger of bad news is killed. Did you want to say that?
      3. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 19 2020 09: 45 New
        +2
        But who is panicking, we are surprised at this zigzag decision of those in power from the Ministry of Defense.
        Logic is not enough, voluntarism is a bit much.
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 52 New
          -3
          And I feel like it. If it weren’t for these or those problems, as with the apparently new engines for the 22350M, we would have laid them already this year. But it was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines, and walk on them. Unfortunately, desires do not always coincide with the possibilities, so you have to change decisions along the way.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 April 19 2020 09: 55 New
            +1
            Yes, there is no doubt that the 22350M is more advanced than the 22350 project, but then again a new project, and it usually takes 5-10 years to build up.
      4. victor50
        victor50 April 19 2020 09: 52 New
        +4
        Quote: Sky Strike fighter
        On April 28, two more frigates 22350 will be laid in St. Petersburg

        The key word is "LOCKED". Those about which in the article were also "BUILD". Sickening already from this empty space. Dads in childhood did not teach anyone: "Do it first, and then show off!"
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 19 2020 09: 54 New
          -5
          No, well, as if the announcement. The decision is already taken.
  7. Stalllker
    Stalllker April 19 2020 07: 14 New
    -2
    On such a large ship and 16 rockets, laughter
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy April 19 2020 08: 11 New
      -1
      Quote: Stalllker
      On such a large ship and 16 rockets, laughter
      But didn’t you try to read carefully before ....... or is the goal different?
      the new frigate will carry 48 missiles in six installations
      1. Stalllker
        Stalllker April 19 2020 10: 34 New
        0
        I'm talking about the initial project! But the Leader is still plain on paper and there is little sense in discussing what he will wear there and how much.
  8. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 April 19 2020 07: 16 New
    +6
    The perfectionist-procrastinators have been sobering the idea for so long that again it has remained unclaimed.
  9. Graz
    Graz April 19 2020 07: 36 New
    +3
    you need to build what you have money for

    although the leader is handsome, and it seems to me more necessary than any BDK there and the modernization of the air carrier cruiser Kuznetsov
    1. bayard
      bayard April 19 2020 09: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Graz
      although the leader is handsome

      "Leader" ROAD! About 200 billion rubles.
      For the money you can build at least 5 frigates 22350+ with 24 KR on board. Or 4 (four) 22350M frigate destroyers.
      But the 22350M is not yet ready for a power plant on the M70FRU and M90FR turbines and the new gearbox. Until the ships are brought and tested, ships cannot be laid (!) - CRIME. Because they hang, like the previous series without power plants on the stocks.
      So far it seems they decided to continue the 22350+ series with 24 KR in the UVP.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 19 2020 09: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: bayard
        "Leader" ROAD! About 200 billion rubles.
        For the money you can build at least 5 frigates 22350+ with 24 KR on board. Or 4 (four) 22350M frigate destroyers.

        So expensive or no money? fool
        I'll explode right now, like three hundred tons of TNT ...

        1. bayard
          bayard April 19 2020 10: 24 New
          +1
          And there are no roads and no money.
          In any case, it is much more profitable to build ships with a classic gas turbine power plant. The same "Leader" had an iteration in the gas turbine hypostasis - VI 12 tons and the same 000 KR in UVP. But the price is four times lower. So what to choose? Indeed, for a gas turbine ship, the life cycle cost is several times lower, if not an order of magnitude. The Americans, our naval commanders, were convinced of this when operating their nuclear-powered cruisers. The amers seemed to have enough money, but they gave up on this type of ships FORCE, and left such power plants on aircraft carriers only because of the need to power steam and EM catapults in combat mode.
          And the fact that they steal and the budget is not executed is due to the IRRESPONSIBILITY of "responsible" officials. And in order to establish a business with diligence, it is necessary to put to each such official a commissioner with a Mauser, who will periodically pick in the ear of such an official with the barrel of his Mauser, recalling the responsibility for the assigned task.
          I assure you that in 5 years not a single irresponsible official will remain in the service - either they will scatter, or they will still earn their "nine grams" of justice. And there will remain responsible, which were the Stalinist People's Commissars.
          With whom an example and should be taken by modern overly "effective" managers.
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 April 19 2020 13: 26 New
            -2
            Quote: bayard
            And they will remain responsible, as were the Stalinist commissars.

            well, not everyone was so responsible that before the war with the armament of the army there was that periodically Stalin himself had to intervene ...
            1. bayard
              bayard April 19 2020 14: 32 New
              0
              Have you watched the growth rates of industry and the economy as a whole? I'm not talking about the war period and the post-war period under Stalin - everything was performed.
              Or the DOCTOR came.
              1. PSih2097
                PSih2097 April 19 2020 18: 16 New
                -2
                Quote: bayard
                Or the DOCTOR came.

                according to Kulik? And yes, I'm talking about the pre-war period ...
                1. bayard
                  bayard April 19 2020 23: 36 New
                  0
                  Quote: PSih2097
                  I'm talking about the pre-war period ...

                  In the prewar two first five-year periods, there was the highest economic growth rate in Russia over the entire period of its existence. And you want to say that the Stalinist people's commissars at that time did NOTHING? lol
                  And what was wrong with the weapons in the prewar years?
                  Built 25 thousand tanks?
                  So perhaps the entire then-world did not have such numbers.
                  Had one of the largest fleets in the world?
                  Yes, both tanks and aircraft were for the most part not so modern. So then few people had modern ones (as of June 1941), and the industry that it could build was building, it itself was 10 years old by that time.
                  What weapons did the army not receive?
                  Automatic rifle rifle same caliber?
                  Under 2 (TWO) million the army received, and if not for the war, then perhaps the whole army would be rearmament on them.
                  And not one army in the world had such rifles.
                  Artillery?
                  So we have more of it than the Nazis had. All the necessary calibers.
                  Shells?
                  So specifically for this, the MINISTRY OF AMMUNITION was created. And the Soviet Union did not have shell hunger (in contrast to RI in WWI). smile
                  Maybe our guns rode on wooden wheels with iron rims? How are some Germans?
                  So no - we have produced artificial rubber in sufficient quantities.
                  Or do you mean that the combat fighters of the USSR in the summer of 1941 were inferior to the German?
                  Really inferior. And there was why - aircraft engines!
                  We had them imported, usually licensed, and this already meant a delay of several years.
                  They themselves have not yet learned to design, although they tried very hard. But during the war they pulled it up too - on the Kursk Bulge and on the Kuban, a turning point in the air war did happen ...
                  But!
                  If our planes were inferior to the enemy in quality in 1941, then NUMBER of our industry didn’t offend the Army. So they took a lot of equipment to iam where there was not enough quality. Yes, both tanks and fighters of the old types by the beginning of 1942 had lost almost everything, but we held back the Germans.
                  Is it only the courage and stamina of our fighters?
                  No ! These fighters had something to fight.
                  And if something the USSR industry did not manage to master and produce before June 1941, then already during the war, brought to mind all the weapons and produced them in the required quantity.
                  If you do not know this, have not read or heard, or maybe you do not want to know, then this is your problem. request
                  1. PSih2097
                    PSih2097 April 19 2020 23: 46 New
                    -2
                    soldier
                    Quote: bayard
                    Built 25 thousand tanks?

                    and brought them to the corps ... but they forgot how to manage them ... and the American Christi BTs and the British Vickers-Armstrong T-26, unlike the military T-34 and KV ...
                    Although what I mean, to you about the People’s Commissar, you are talking about everything, but not about what I wrote about ... soldier
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA April 20 2020 16: 05 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bayard
                    Shells?
                    So specifically for this, the MINISTRY OF AMMUNITION was created. And the Soviet Union did not have shell hunger (in contrast to RI in WWI).

                    Such as in 1915 - was not. But the problem with the shells was that way until 1944. For the same Kursk, ammunition stockpiles were stored for four months.
                    In addition, despite hospital average temperature, including morgue, for a number of badly needed power supplies, the industry still flunked the plan. The only type of armor-piercing shells BR-350A for divisional and anti-tank 76,2-mm guns was in short supply even in 1942. Moreover, the official statistics of the presence of "armor-piercing shells" in the troops should be looked at with great caution - uv. D. Shein wrote that on the fence "wood" is written, and behind it ... in the 4th brigade, during the battles near Moscow, according to documents, there were armor-piercing shells, but upon closer examination it turned out that ordinary shrapnel was written in this column.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard April 20 2020 16: 35 New
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      In addition, despite the average temperature in the hospital, including the morgue, the industry did fill up the plan for a number of extremely necessary BPs.

                      And this is not surprising. Huge stockpiles of shells in the western districts were lost in the very first weeks of the war and went to the enemy, which the latter enjoyed with pleasure. Industry evacuated beyond the Urals and began to produce products only in 1942 - in normal volumes.
                      But until June 22, there were enough shells in the troops.
                      Armor-piercing shells were a frank ... marriage (so that the moderators didn’t ban), but the Germans, on the contrary, would beat a magnificent one.
                      But there were shells.
                      And guns.
                      And the tanks.
                      And the planes.
                      But the fact that the General Staff in the threatened period nagged, the troops entered the battle step by step (that is, in parts) and always yielded to the enemy in the main directions of the strike, the command and control was out of the ordinary ... and the best army of the then world attacked us with their own allies ...
                      But already in the course of the war, industry beyond the Urals began to work like a Swiss watch, and the armament models brought up the necessary condition, and learned to fight.
                      And they won.
                      And if the management of the state and industry was bad in the USSR, then who organized all this ?! Who carried out literally lightning-fast evacuation of industry and launching it in new places? Who oversaw and led our design bureaus and science in general? Who defeated the Germans near Moscow, Stalingrad, on the Dnieper, in the Belarusian operation, extinguished the last enemy offensive near Balaton and carried out a brilliant Berlin operation?
                      Who did it all?
                      Should ALL Europe fight against us?
                      And we were forced to hold part of the troops against Turkey, in Iran and on the border with Japan in Manchuria ...

                      And in the pre-war period, an industrial breakthrough was just taking place, hundreds and thousands of enterprises and entire industries were being built, and we simply did not know much.
                      We tried very hard, but it didn’t work out all at once.
                      And the enemies were saboteurs. Diversions were carried out, precious equipment was destroyed, plans were frustrated.
                      And there were enemies in the country's leadership, they were identified, judged and punished.
                      But thanks to the heroic work of all the people, industrialization was carried out in 10 years (!), Thanks to it the Red Army was created and armed (150 thousand bayonets before industrialization - it was not the Army, but an imitation). Strategic reserves created, trained personnel.
                      Here on this backlog and won.

                      And poking around the pre-war USSR with questions "why this or that was not in the proper quality and quantity" does not need much mind, and then there was WHOM to ask for it. And they asked. And the issues were resolved.
                      And they decided.
                      Otherwise, we wouldn’t communicate with you now.
                      1. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA April 20 2020 20: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bayard
                        Armor-piercing shells were a frank ... marriage (so that the moderators didn’t ban), but the Germans, on the contrary, would beat a magnificent one.
                        But there were shells.

                        For 3 "there were practically no armor-piercing shells in the troops. From 1936 to 22.06.1941, 930 thousand 76-mm BBS were ordered. And 192,7 thousand were produced.
                        Result:
                        We can assume that the divisional guns and most heavy and medium tanks (KV, T-34) were practically not provided with armor-piercing shells
                        © "Artillery Supply in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45.", Moscow-Tula, GAU publishing house, 1977.
                        Here is the situation in the mechanized corps:
                        The sheet on military unit 9090 for April 30, 1941, in the column "76 mm armor-piercing tracer" - 33084 is assigned, 33084 is lacking, security percentage is 0. Once again - 0, zero, zero, dummy. But under the abbreviation “ve che 9090” hides the 6th mechanized corps of Major General Mikhail Georgievich Khatskilevich - the most powerful mechanized corps of the Western Special Military District and one of the most staffed in the Red Army. On June 22, he had 238 T-34 and 114 KV tanks.
                        Perhaps we have before us a separate out-of-the-box case of malicious headache of negligent suppliers who did not deliver projectiles in time to one separately taken compound? Alas. It reports on the availability of armament and ammunition as of April 25, 1941. The 3rd mechanized corps of the Baltic Special Military District: KV 79 tanks, T-34 tanks - 50, 17948 armor-piercing 76-mm shells are laid on a time sheet, there is zero.
                        But, perhaps, things are going better in the "direction of the main blow" in the Kiev Special Military District? In general, yes, a little better. But if only the very, very little. Reports on the availability of weapons and ammunition as of May 1, 1941. The 4th mechanized corps of Major General Andrei Andreyevich Vlasov (the very future commander of the 37th, 20th, 2nd shock and Russian liberation armies): The KV corps has 72 tanks, the T-34 tanks have 242 tanks, 76 artillery fires are required for 66964 mm tank guns, of which zero is available. All types - at least armor-piercing, at least high-explosive fragmentation - are still zero. But in the 8th mechanized corps of Lieutenant General Dmitry Ivanovich Ryabyshev there are a few armor-piercing shells for tank guns of the latest types: as of June 10, the corps has 71 KV tanks, 100 T-34s, it is supposed to have 8163 armor-piercing 76-mm according to the report card shell, there is 2350.
                        © Ulanov / Shein
          2. Elturisto
            Elturisto April 20 2020 17: 39 New
            -2
            You have serious problems with a citizen. You apparently started talking at an accelerated pace ... vocational schools on aircraft carriers because they are all atomic :))
  10. Antidote
    Antidote April 19 2020 07: 46 New
    +9
    The fifth point is only approaching, the reduction of programs will be massive and painful. Take it for granted. Until the vaccine appears, then a slow recovery will take place.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff April 19 2020 08: 00 New
      18
      Northern PCB Annual Report for 2019. There was no pandemic in the 19th.
      Just do not listen to any promises for the future. Our officials are world champions in idle talk.
      1. Eug
        Eug April 19 2020 08: 35 New
        +4
        Not so much a pandemic as they sailed with gas (it was purchased by "partners" and not used up due to the relatively warm winter)
        and now with oil and after it again with gas (a decrease in prices "tied" to oil) ..
    2. Owl
      Owl April 19 2020 08: 17 New
      +9
      Funds for development and construction can only come from the "dispossession" of the current "rulers" and their "friends-oligarchs", immediately after such an action, the "PR company - everything is fine in Russia" will turn into real actions to save the industry and the State.
  11. Peter Tverdokhlebov
    Peter Tverdokhlebov April 19 2020 07: 52 New
    -17
    In Putin's Russia there are ~ $ 400 billion in gold and foreign exchange reserves, a few more trillions in various funds, such as "Welfare", etc. There is money for the construction of these ships, but the western agent Putin was ordered to abandon the construction of these ships!
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 19 2020 08: 00 New
      11
      Qatar gives a discount of $ 10 for oil. Saudis give a discount and a zero credit / installment plan of 90 days (that is, we buy oil at a discount today, and pay after 3 months). Urals sank to the level of the late 90s. And this is after the agreement of Trustees +.

      As long as the oil industry does not recover, the accumulated money must be protected. For perhaps these funds will have to stretch for 5+ years.
      1. Graz
        Graz April 19 2020 08: 10 New
        -3
        no need to engage in nonsense, it is necessary to do as states. blame all these Saudis, uh. Qatar and others like them in the financing of terrorism and completely destroy with a missile strike all their oil production, cheaply and angrily. I don’t know what
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 19 2020 08: 20 New
          11
          Well missile strike is not enough. At least six months surgery is necessary. Even if you attract an outfit of forces, level 2003 in Iraq. What is impossible, because there are no bases. Even Iran will not fit into such an adventure, for it will be kicked guaranteed for the bases.

          Therefore, your missile carriers must have teleportation technology. The fleet is not an assistant either. First of all, a cloud of air force of the rookies will peck it. Secondly, the fleet stupidly does not have a sufficient total salvo, even to solve the Qatar issue. I am not talking about other gorges.

          Well, to bomb American vassals, arrogantly and openly - you can get the answer already from their daddy.
          1. bayard
            bayard April 19 2020 09: 26 New
            +3
            Or you can simply nationalize the Central Bank (or abolish it and revive the State Treasury and the State Bank of Russia) and saturate the credit and financial markets with a life-giving money supply. Given that the Russian economy is not mono-monetized by at least 50%, this will not affect the devaluation.
            ... But this is a task for the SOVEREIGN State.
            Therefore, the Constitution must be changed.
          2. lucul
            lucul April 19 2020 10: 25 New
            +1
            Well, to bomb American vassals, arrogantly and openly - you can get the answer already from their daddy.

            Ah, how scary it is straight)))
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon April 19 2020 09: 07 New
          +6
          Quote: Graz
          completely destroy all their oil production by rocket attack

          It is painful you are menacing, as I look!
          N.A. Nekrasov
      2. Grits
        Grits April 19 2020 08: 39 New
        -4
        Quote: donavi49
        As long as the oil industry does not recover, the accumulated money must be protected. For perhaps these funds will have to stretch for 5+ years.

        Russia hopes that the Saudis fat will decline much earlier. Most likely it will be so and the sheikhs will transfer to camels. But just how many of our citizens will stretch their legs during this time? We then these poor citizens will be more
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 April 19 2020 08: 45 New
          +7
          In fact, the Saudis have a comparable pillow, but the population is 30 million.

          Now they have 501 billion reserves.
          272 billion of the budget. In doing so, he is greatly swollen. All sorts of mega-projects, 67 billion of the military budget (this is more than that of Russia), various allocation of money to their vassals and agents of influence, financing of the procurement of Field Marshal Sisi, and so on.

          Plus now oil revenues are about 70% of the budget. And the extraction is extremely cheap. In general, they can sit for quite a while, eating reserves. Plus, there is still a macrocredit factor. The Saudis will be given money. But Russia is not a fact, or rather they will be issued, but in exchange for political decisions / concessions, etc.
          1. D16
            D16 April 19 2020 12: 51 New
            0
            Now they have 501 billion reserves.

            And in the 14th year it was 737. And in this period, oil never fell below 45. In addition, they wage a very unsuccessful war, often in their own Shiite-inhabited territory.
            various allocation of money to his vassals and agents of influence, financing the procurement of Field Marshal Sisi

            But the Egyptians did not fit into the coalition war in Yemen. As, however, the UAE subsequently left its composition.
            And the extraction is extremely cheap. In general, they can sit for quite a while, eating reserves.

            They have been doing this for 6 years, during which Russia created the stash.
            Plus, there is still a macrocredit factor. The Saudis will be given money.

            Who will give them bankrupt? lol
          2. Grits
            Grits April 19 2020 16: 16 New
            -1
            Quote: donavi49
            In fact, the Saudis have a comparable pillow,

            I did not mean a financial pillow, but the availability of resources and the economy. here we, of course, look a lot cooler than souads. But all these resources are just past our population.
        2. bar
          bar April 19 2020 08: 58 New
          -1
          Russia hopes that the Saudis fat will decline much earlier.

          Russia hopes that dad Trump will put pressure on his vassals. He got cheap oil, too, like a sickle in a causal place.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 April 19 2020 09: 23 New
            +3
            Yes, but more before the election. For Texas, Dakota, Oklahoma will vote for Biden and goodbye to the White House.

            The US budget does not particularly depend on oil (but earlier, under Bush / Obama, on the contrary, low prices are good, because they were buyers on the market).
            1. bar
              bar April 19 2020 09: 29 New
              +2
              US budget is not particularly dependent on oil

              Now the US budget depends only on printing. And cheap oil, on the one hand, is good for ordinary voters, on the other hand, firstly, the loss of jobs for which Trump drowns, and on the other hand, political losses. With cheap oil and gas, goodbye to pressure on Russia and squeezing it out of the European market. At these prices, all LNG in Europe will also be Russian.
            2. lucul
              lucul April 19 2020 10: 29 New
              0
              Yes, but more before the election. For Texas, Dakota, Oklahoma will vote for Biden and goodbye to the White House.

              Do not wait - if Biden wins the election - there will be a civil war guaranteed. And America will lose its already blown power.
            3. D16
              D16 April 19 2020 12: 55 New
              0
              US budget is not particularly dependent on oil

              The budget may not, but the labor market is very dependent.
        3. lucul
          lucul April 19 2020 10: 26 New
          +1
          But just how many of our citizens will stretch their legs during this time? We then these poor citizens will be more

          Thanks for this YOUR loans ...
      3. onix757
        onix757 April 19 2020 09: 04 New
        +6
        As long as the oil industry does not recover, the accumulated money must be protected. For perhaps these funds will have to stretch for 5+ years.

        Therefore, we will increase investments in American securities and flood London with gold. Well, it’s not in industry to invest the right thing.
    2. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis April 19 2020 08: 31 New
      -5
      Quote: Peter Tverdokhlebov
      In Putin's Russia there are ~ $ 400 billion in gold and foreign exchange reserves, a few more trillions in various funds, such as "Welfare", etc. There is money for the construction of these ships, but the western agent Putin was ordered to abandon the construction of these ships!

      Russia has gold and foreign exchange reserves! In Russia ! If Putin was a "western agent" you would have praised him ... And so ... "not everything is so simple" Question you - from ukraYny soy chi sho ..? .. I'd like very much flags for avatars ... As they say, "Gulchitay open your face !!!?"
  12. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 April 19 2020 08: 04 New
    14
    Yes, for the Olympics "very necessary", for football, for saving banks (despite the fact that in capitalism an incompetent business, including banking, must play in the box) - there is money. And there is no money to design ships. Miracles, and nothing more.
    1. onix757
      onix757 April 19 2020 09: 14 New
      +6
      But there is no money for the design of ships. Miracles, and only.

      It's not so much about money. More precisely, not at all in money. Killed in the XNUMXs, science and industry are not able to give the country a modern fleet. However, this fully applies to space.
      1. lucul
        lucul April 19 2020 10: 30 New
        -2
        Killed in the XNUMXs, science and industry are not able to give the country a modern fleet.

        All that you know directly what is killed and what is not killed ...
      2. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 April 19 2020 14: 10 New
        0
        In fact, I'm exaggerating: the article is about financing. It is clear that the Indian Raja, be he richer than the English king, will still not build a dreadnought for any money. But for money, you can raise the salaries of Teachers in the school, who will be motivated to teach children who will later become engineers (and not, God forgive me, Kokorins and Mamaevs), and build the SuperGorshkov.
  13. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 19 2020 08: 07 New
    -5
    suspended indefinitely due to the lack of a decision of the Ministry of Defense.
    MO wants to sign a contract for Zumbolt? repeat
  14. knn54
    knn54 April 19 2020 08: 09 New
    0
    Although they did not refer to the coronavirus.
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft April 20 2020 01: 29 New
      -1
      Quote: knn54
      Although they did not refer to the coronavirus.

      when it ends, they will certainly refer .... in Russia there are not many people living, so as not to take into account any pandemic ..
      and Mishustin were appointed just when the pandemic in the Russian Federation had just begun not in vain (as the Russian Defense Ministry once made Shoigu during the height of the mess in the SAR), but to carry out including unpopular decisions (yet to come) in a constantly changing operational environment in the country and in the world ...
  15. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo April 19 2020 08: 25 New
    0
    suspended indefinitely due to lack of decision of the Ministry of Defense

    Phew, thank God that it’s not because of the coronavirus.
  16. sanches-nk
    sanches-nk April 19 2020 08: 42 New
    0
    "With regard to the improved frigate of project 22350M, it was reported in December last year that the technical design of the ship is already ready. According to the head of the USC Alexei Rakhmanov, the construction of the lead ship may begin this year, provided that there is adequate funding, but decisions on it have not yet been made.
    It turns out everything is ready, you just need to make a decision and allocate funding. As always, someone is slowing down somewhere and is afraid to take responsibility. The President and the Minister of Defense announced the start of construction of the 22350M frigates in the coming years, no one said that the laying will be in 2020. Let's hope that they will launch earlier, such ships are able to compete with cruisers.
  17. Luty
    Luty April 19 2020 08: 43 New
    +1
    This is not so bad. Better build serial ships. And do not create a prodigy in a single copy. For some reason, the ground forces are not trying to adopt more than any different models. And in the Navy they design more than build.
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft April 20 2020 01: 22 New
      -1
      Quote: Luty
      For some reason, the ground forces are not trying to adopt more than any different models.

      It’s sinful to laugh ....
      We have only 4 types of tanks, 5 types of MLRS, self-propelled guns unmeasured, even though they’ve more or less dealt with automotive equipment and transferred everything to diesel ....
    2. infantryman2020
      infantryman2020 April 20 2020 06: 23 New
      +1
      Unfortunately, you are mistaken. In our Ground Forces, deunification and miscellaneous rolls over. For the sake of the military-industrial complex and to the detriment of common sense and logistics.
    3. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 25 May 2020 14: 13 New
      0
      Quote: Luty
      And in the Navy they design more than build.
      this is the trick (!)... I bought a pack of A4 paper, (500 sheets of paper), I drew out sketches of ship designs (!), and sold "to the customer in the form of the Navy and Ministry of Defense", but not at cost "reams of A4 paper", winked as well as some "a finished work with a development perspective for the country's defense complex"that makes sense .... sad , ?! ... Well, it's fun and profitable (!) Give a new and innovative fleet ?!
  18. rudolff
    rudolff April 19 2020 08: 44 New
    13
    Money will always be scarce, especially if you just squander it. We are driving a series of patrol ships that are useless to anyone, we rested our horn on these RTOs, the benefit of which tends to zero. We criticized the 85th project for its high cost relative to the 80th and immediately laid the even more expensive 86th with the worst performance characteristics. We are building some main military churches, pompous military parks, we are conducting some kind of stupid military Olympiad, we have come up with some kind of junior army ... There will be a larger military budget, there will be more similar nonsense. The problem is not money, the problem is people.
    1. D16
      D16 April 19 2020 11: 32 New
      0
      85th project for the high cost relative to the 80th

      The NNPs of the current 80s are being built with a screening mast, so they found a middle ground between the death star and the dove of the world.
      laid the even more expensive 86th with worse performance characteristics

      86th is a new vision of a patrol ship with fundamentally new contours, a power plant and a propulsion system. Look at the evolution of pr.1135. This building was created in the mid 60s and is under construction! still. It is his replacement that should become the 86th.
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa April 19 2020 21: 37 New
        +2
        The NNPs of the current 80s are being built with a screening mast, so they found a middle ground between the death star and the dove of the world.


        This is not a middle ground, but a brown bottom. On the mass corvette that BMZ was supposed to hold, it was not necessary to sculpt this mega RLC, it was necessary on the contrary - or to leave the Furke-Puma-Monument, or even better, to completely put the Karakurt complex on 20385. As a result, the Caliber’s carrier and a good anti-submarine of billions for 17 would have come out.
        And they got the worst ship in terms of weapons with a super-expensive radar, without PLUR but for 20.

        86th is a new vision of a patrol ship with fundamentally new contours, a power plant and a propulsion system. Look at the evolution of pr.1135. This building was created in the mid 60s and is under construction! still. It is his replacement that should become the 86th.


        You do not write nonsense please.
        1. D16
          D16 April 20 2020 09: 14 New
          -1
          leave the Furke Puma Monument,

          You have a strange vision of a zonal air defense complex. Puma works only in the A-190 shelling sector, and it doesn’t matter to multichannel. And stop clinging to being a BMZ corvette. In which case he will have to perform different tasks.
          completely stick on 20385 Karakurt complex.

          Which one? There, from the third side, everything changed drastically.
          You do not write nonsense please.

          What do you see stupidity? At least on one project did we have a similar power plant with VRS?
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa April 20 2020 09: 35 New
            +1
            Which one? There, from the third side, everything changed drastically.


            Positive + mineral, according to art. OMS no difference.

            What do you see stupidity?


            For example.
            https://topwar.ru/155697-korvet-20386-prodolzhenie-afery.html
            And this is far from everything, even close.
            1. D16
              D16 April 20 2020 14: 38 New
              -1
              Positive + Mineral

              - Doctor, can I play the violin after surgery on the brush?
              - Of course.
              - Class! And then I had no hearing before. fellow
              What makes you think that Positive can carry out 9m96 radio correction?
              For example.
              https://topwar.ru/155697-korvet-20386-prodolzhenie-afery.html

              Scandals, intrigues, investigations. laughing
              1. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa April 20 2020 16: 33 New
                +1
                Positive instead of Furke. The issue of radio correction can be solved separately, at least as the article suggested for 20380

                Scandals, intrigues, investigations. laughing


                When in essence there is nothing to object, it remains only to put emoticons and continue to write nonsense.
                20386 - a sawmill. It has actually destroyed the surface forces of the BMZ, capable of carrying out anti-aircraft defense, and this is only the beginning.
                Shlyakhtenko plans to increase the size of the boat, which will kill project 22350 and replace it in production.
                But you continue to believe in the good.
                1. D16
                  D16 April 20 2020 18: 50 New
                  -1
                  Positive instead of Furke.

                  But what's the point of replacing it if both stations cannot work in the radio correction mode? Furke is at least less weather dependent.
                  When in essence there is nothing to object, it remains only to put emoticons and continue to write nonsense.

                  A bunch of nonsense is written in the text by reference. I especially liked the conclusion about the lack of radio correction at IFC RLK Barrier, made on the basis of clippings from an advertising presentation. The NGO Leninets was the first to put the headlamp on a plane. The R-37 missile has an inertial guidance system with radio correction and active radar homing in the final section. Why should 20385 be different?
                  So most likely everything is fine there with radio correction.
                  at least as the article suggested for 20380

                  What is it like? to put the second Puma? This is a laser pointer, which can simultaneously point at two targets in the 3x6 gr sector. The idea is not very.
                  the decision to place the Caliber was indicated - its placement on inclined launchers (similar to the Uranus complex) on the basis of the "initial" project 20380.

                  Ship Uranus weighs 600 kg. PLUR 91xxxx 1200 and 2100 kg. How will the placement on the deck of launchers with these missiles affect the metacentric height?
                  the use of turbines on the original 20380 could give an even more significant cost effect.

                  Since when did a gas-turbine power plant, which is also not available, become cheaper than diesel engines?
    2. Tavrik
      Tavrik April 20 2020 00: 30 New
      +1
      Unfortunately, you are right. Just temples and parks - that's all we can. About serious things, such as building a balanced fleet, and not a set of different types of ships, we can only talk and impressively rush from side to side. There is no guide or direction. There is neither Kuznetsov nor Gorshkov. It seems that at the top, no one understands why we need a fleet at all. Well, this is not the first time with us. Who will be responsible for the hundreds of millions wasted on the preliminary design? Two to three years after protection, it will become obsolete and will require processing. "Soap-wet start over." And another reason for this state is that military science was killed, so there is no one to adequately assess the threats, our capabilities (financial, technological, production) and find optimal solutions.
  19. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 April 19 2020 08: 55 New
    +1
    Everything is correct, the budget is spent, and there even though the grass does not grow am
  20. Wasilii
    Wasilii April 19 2020 08: 56 New
    -7
    What "Leader", what "22350-M". Pyn has only Zuleikh on his mind, the Wailing Walls and Eltsin centers. Let's hit the NATO imperialists with eltsin centers.
  21. egor1712
    egor1712 April 19 2020 09: 07 New
    -5
    All purchases under the military program were classified, so work is ongoing or not, a narrow circle of people knows. And it is right.
  22. prior
    prior April 19 2020 09: 25 New
    +1
    "We were born to make a fairy tale come true" (March of the USSR aviators)

    "We were born to make a fairy tale DUST" (V.V. Putin)
  23. zxc15682
    zxc15682 April 19 2020 09: 29 New
    +3
    Immediately this "Leader" had to be sent to virtual needles.
  24. jeka424
    jeka424 April 19 2020 09: 38 New
    0
    Now everything can be attributed to a virus
  25. Eskobar
    Eskobar April 19 2020 09: 55 New
    -1
    Who would doubt that
  26. Eskobar
    Eskobar April 19 2020 10: 00 New
    0
    And what loud promises were, and how it came down to .....
  27. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx April 19 2020 10: 02 New
    0
    Work on the destroyer "Leader" and frigates of the project 22350M suspended

    Gentlemen kremleboty "True constitutional patriots of Russia (United)"!
    We kindly request that you voice this decision with reasonable arguments and explanations. Something in my head does not fit the presence of “postponed by the state for a rainy day”:
    Moscow. April 3rd INTERFAX.RU - The volume of the National Welfare Fund (NWF) as of April 1, 2020 amounted to 12 trillion 855,75 billion rubles, or 11,3% of GDP, which is equivalent to $ 165,384 billion, the Russian Finance Ministry said in a statement.

    What specifically prevents Russia from building a fleet (because those who do this cannot be "someone", only "excrement from the yellow cat")? belay
    1. lucul
      lucul April 19 2020 10: 38 New
      -1
      What specifically prevents Russia from building a fleet (because those who do this cannot be "someone", only "excrement from the yellow cat")?

      Because every sandpiper praises its swamp .....
      You shout, give to the fleet, another shouts give to the army, the third shouts give to aviation, the fourth shouts give to industry. And everyone screams - give, give, give. Just like a lover man. The main thing is to correctly prioritize.
      Why the Leader is needed now, if all of NATO is now out, uncomfortable - take it warm guaranteed. And how NATO hoped to survive with the use of bacteriological and chemical weapons - I don’t get it at all. Or didn’t they even think about their people? ....
  28. alone
    alone April 19 2020 10: 04 New
    +2
    with such an economic crisis, all this is not surprising .... Previously, all this had to be done when petrodollars flowed into the budget like the Volga to the Caspian ...
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft April 20 2020 01: 08 New
      -1
      Quote: lonely
      Previously, it was necessary to do all this when petrodollars flowed into the budget like the Volga to the Caspian ...

      You almost guessed that Russia carried out the first run-in of KR MB carriers precisely in the Caspian ... the youngest warships for 2015 were there ....
  29. sanik2020
    sanik2020 April 19 2020 10: 13 New
    0
    Once the robots have stopped, then the project is no longer promising but fantastic. And on the other hand, during downtime, it can also be improved.
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl April 21 2020 01: 27 New
      +1
      The number of projects of SPKB, and "Almaz", in recent years, reminds me very much of a cartoon about a dunno, which for every new rehearsal came out with the phrase - "no, I think it will look like this !!" ... "Leader", 21956, 22350M, "Surf", "Avalanche", "Manatee", 20386, 11711, etc. .... etc. It does not matter that there is no serial production (!!), there is important new, and not small, funding for a new super project !!! But to acquire ships, they are in no hurry - only with PROJECTS of ships !! ... it is possible (?) That the management of the USC (headed by Rohman) and at the instigation of the Northern PKB, is simply looking for opportunities to offer the state "a few more reams of paper "(or another 3-D model) as a completely new project in order to get the maximum amount of budget money ?!
  30. Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 19 2020 10: 14 New
    +1
    Well, you didn’t believe ....
  31. Astartes
    Astartes April 19 2020 10: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Valery Valery
    About "Leader" - I will not say, I do not know. But about the ships of the project 22350m - not true !!! All work continues!

    Vresh.
  32. polar fox
    polar fox April 19 2020 11: 00 New
    0
    so is it zrada or peremoga? or another HPP? or stuffing "knowledgeable"?
  33. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz April 19 2020 11: 54 New
    +1
    Superesminci / kreyseri Lider megalomania chistoy vodi. MO pravilno reshilo.
  34. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft April 20 2020 00: 12 New
    -1
    According to available information, the new frigate will carry 48 missiles in six installations, unlike frigates of project 22350

    Why didn’t they do so much at once?
  35. Reducer
    Reducer April 20 2020 14: 37 New
    0
    4 years on a preliminary design ?! Cool! literally!
  36. G. Georgiev
    G. Georgiev April 20 2020 18: 39 New
    0
    .... therefore, the Chinese do not stop the production of such ships. Russia, as always, lags behind in important projects, such as the Polus Skif-DM space laser, as well as the Planet plasma anti-missile system and so on.