Military Review

New Russian project 22350 frigates will receive enhanced weapons

93

The seventh and eighth frigates of project 22350 will now be able to arm 24 assault missiles of various types. For example, it can be supersonic Zircon missiles.


It is reported by the news agency. TASSreferring to sources in the military-industrial complex.

The frigates in question are only about to lay at the Severnaya Verf shipyard. The same weapons will be able to get the “Admiral Chichagov” and “Admiral Amelko”, which were laid down in 2019.

The construction of the seventh and eighth frigates of the series is planned to be carried out according to an improved project, which provides for enhanced weapons. They will receive 24 vertical installations of the universal ship firing complex (UKSK) ZS-14, suitable for several types of missiles. They can be used to launch Caliber, Zircon or Onyx missiles.

The developers managed to carve out a place on board the frigate to add another one to two sections of eight launchers. In this case, the displacement of the frigate has changed slightly.

The laying of two new warships of project 22350 is scheduled for the end of this month. It is assumed that the frigates included in this series will become a serious deterrent and strengthen the defense capability of the Russian Federation.
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  1. DMB 75
    DMB 75 April 17 2020 10: 49 New
    16
    Here's the good news! Ships seven feet under the keel!
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 17 2020 10: 54 New
      18
      and reliable power plant ..
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 April 17 2020 12: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: novel xnumx
        and reliable power plant ..

        Is there a problem with her?
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 17 2020 12: 42 New
          +4
          is not it so...
        2. vadim dok
          vadim dok April 17 2020 15: 12 New
          +2
          Her reliable just no. Bye!
          1. alexmach
            alexmach April 17 2020 16: 07 New
            +1
            Her reliable just no. Bye!

            Well, yes, he would have such a power plant with which you can go on long trips without fear. Even to circumnavigate the world could go to demonstrate the capabilities of the power plant.
            Wait a minute ...
    2. cost
      cost April 17 2020 10: 55 New
      +2
      What are seven feet? Have you read the article carefully? They are only going to mortgage. That's when they are ready - then we wish
    3. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 10: 58 New
      10
      Well, that’s already something. The news is good. But I would like to speed up work on 22350 M. Although, in my opinion, it is more logical to equip Zircons primarily with submarines due to the numerical superiority of the conditional enemy in the surface fleet. In general, it would be nice to make air-based Zircon for those the same Su-34. Although the X-59MK2 is suitable for the first time as an anti-ship missile.
      1. Oleg1263
        Oleg1263 April 17 2020 11: 05 New
        -11
        Есть мнение , что " Циркон " , это оморяченная Х-32.
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 10 New
          +9
          Quote: oleg1263
          Есть мнение , что " Циркон " , это оморяченная Х-32.

          Are you laughing? X-32 is a colossus of almost more than 5 tons, there is only a warhead per ton weighing 12 meters long. It was created on the basis of X-22 and technologies tested on the X-90 GZUR.
          1. Oleg1263
            Oleg1263 April 17 2020 11: 34 New
            -3
            No, I don’t laugh. X32 has less warheads than X22. This is the first, second - these are similar Technical characteristics, of those that can be found in the public domain - flight altitude, speed, and radius of destruction. Although, of course, a completely new development cannot be ruled out.
            1. Sky strike fighter
              Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 47 New
              +5
              Find on the Internet a photo of the Tu-22M3 flight with two X-32s suspended for clarity. Look at the weight and parameters of the X-32 and figure out how to theoretically launch such a program from UKKS, from where Zircon is launched. UKKS parameters on the Internet are not a problem either.
            2. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 April 18 2020 01: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: oleg1263
              X32 has less warheads than X22

              due to which the fuel supply is increased and a more powerful engine is installed

              Quote: oleg1263
              the second is similar Technical characteristics, of those that can be found in the public domain - flight altitude, speed, and radius of destruction.

              вообще ничего схожего. Х-32 - не гиперзвуковая, о высоте полета Циркона ничего не известно. Что касаемо дальности, она зависит исключительно от запаса топлива, прожорливости мотора и профиля полета, и не есть показатель для причисления к "родственникам"
              You’d better look at the dimensions of the rocket, but remember that Zircon should be launched from the unified UKKS (the length of the rocket is not more than 9 meters, the diameter is up to 0,7 m, the mass is no more than 4 tons)
        2. venik
          venik April 17 2020 12: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: oleg1263
          Есть мнение , что " Циркон " , это оморяченная Х-32.

          =======
          There is an opinion that this is the opinion of AMATEURS who do not know anything about rocketry! fool
          1. Oleg1263
            Oleg1263 April 17 2020 12: 16 New
            -1
            A bit strange reaction. Motivate, if not difficult.
            1. venik
              venik April 17 2020 14: 33 New
              +8
              Quote: oleg1263
              A bit strange reaction. Motivate, if not difficult.

              ========
              From what? Please include the brains given to us by nature and begin to compare:
              first: Х-32 - глубокая модернизация Х-22, сохранившая те же самые массо-габаритные характеристики, а именно: габариты 11.7 х 0.9 м (!) и масса - ок. 6.0 тонн (!!). Т.е. ни по ГАБАРИТАМ, нни по МАССЕ в УКСК - она ну НИКАК не влезает (хоть кувалдой её туда забивай! В УКСК и "Оникс" то с трудом влезает, а у него габариты и вес - гораздо скромнее: 8.0 х 0,67 м и вес - 3.0 тонны. Вывод: УКСК ракетами Х-32 стрелять - НЕ МОЖЕТ! А "Цирконами" - может (и стреляет)! Значит его массо-габаритные х-ки примерно соответствуют "Ониксу" (т.е. он должен быть почти вдвое легче и на треть компактнее, чем Х-32!
              Second: Х-32, как и прототип Х-22 - это ОДНОСТУПЕНЧАТАЯ ракета с ЖИДКОСНЫМ РД на "высококипящих" компонентах! Причем топливо чрезвычайно токсично, а окислитель - крайне агрессивное вещество! Эти ракеты заправляют перед самым взлетом, и сливают топливо и окислитель (если ракета не использована) - сразу после посадки! Ракеты very dangerous при эксплуатации и ставить их на корабль, где их может быть потора - два с половиной десятка - просто НИКОМУ в "голову не придет" слишком ОПАСНО!! Даже "капсулирование" топливных компонентов - не выход!
              Что до "Циркона" - то это ДВУХСТУПЕНЧАТАЯ ракета, где стартовый ускоритель - ТВЕРДОТОПЛИВНЫЙ, а сама ракета - имеет ПРЯМОТОЧНЫЙ РД.
              The third Х-32 имеет скорость не более 4.5 М (т.е. незвать её "гиперзвуковой" как то does not work!), у "Циркона" - от 6 до 8-10 М (по разным данным).
              Fourth: Дальность Х-32 (заметьте - при ВОЗДУШНОМ старте!) - не более 1 000 км, а значит при наземном (морском) старте с поверхности и при нулевой начальной скорости, должна быть как минимум в 1.5 - 2.5 раза МЕНЬШЕ (т.е. не более 400-600 км), Вроде и вяжется с "Цирконом", BUT: Если мы уменьшим Х-32 до массо-габаритных х-к приемлемых для УКСК 3П-14, то усохнет и дальность - до 250-300 км! А у "Циркона" по всем данным - никак не меньше 400 (а по некоторым данным 600 - 1000 км!).... Опять "нескладуха"
              Ну и "на закуску" - внешний вид:
              X-32:

              "Циркон":

              -----------
              Ну и ЧТО между ними ОБЩЕГО? Окакой "оморяченной" Х-32 может идти речь????
              1. Oleg1263
                Oleg1263 April 17 2020 14: 37 New
                +2
                Thank you.
                1. venik
                  venik April 17 2020 15: 48 New
                  +3
                  Quote: oleg1263
                  Thank you.

                  ======
                  It's my pleasure! drinks
        3. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 April 18 2020 00: 48 New
          -2
          Quote: oleg1263
          Есть мнение , что " Циркон " , это оморяченная Х-32

          where are the firewood ???

          Based on the available information, the X-32 is a further development of the X-22.
          X-32 is made in the case of X-22. Due to the reduced warhead increased tank volume. Replaced electronics.
          The length of the rocket is 11,65 meters
          Diameter - 0,92 meters
          Height with folded keel - 1,8 meters
          wing span - 3 meters
          Weight - 5,8 tons
          X-22 is not hypersonic (max speed of about 4000 km / h)
          The missile does not fit into the UKKS
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 April 17 2020 11: 10 New
        0
        That is - this is not 22350M?
        But there will be 24 kr ... And why
        first 16, if 24 can be put?
        1. Sky strike fighter
          Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 14 New
          +2
          Quote: Doccor18
          That is - this is not 22350M?
          But there will be 24 kr ... And why
          first 16, if 24 can be put?

          Probably thought to build more than 22350, but it was smooth on paper. Yes, and the time was a bit different, more peaceful. Now the deadlines are running out and it is clear that many frigates cannot be built.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 April 17 2020 11: 22 New
            +3
            Again they will write me down as pessimists, but how many originally wanted to build: 48, 36, 24? Looks like no. 6-8 soon. So in any case, on such a modest number of ships, try to shove it to the maximum. Saving here can come sideways.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach April 17 2020 12: 33 New
              +1
              Looks like no. 6-8 soon

              If memory serves me 6 until 2020.
        2. alexmach
          alexmach April 17 2020 12: 32 New
          +5
          And why
          first 16, if 24 can be put?

          Probably because it’s impossible at first. Your K.O.

          PS: the news is such a news, not new at all. At the fifth and sixth pledged a year ago, they also promised 24 UKKS cells.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach April 17 2020 13: 25 New
            0
            At the fifth and sixth pledged a year ago, they also promised 24 UKKS cells.

            А про 22350М сообщали, что у них будет в два раза увеличен боекомплект в УКСК по сравнению с обычным... Оптимисты почему-то сразу это "в два раза" посчитали от 24 и насчитали аж 48 ракет а не 32.
            1. venik
              venik April 17 2020 20: 36 New
              -1
              Quote: alexmach
              А про 22350М сообщали, что у них будет в два раза увеличен боекомплект в УКСК по сравнению с обычным... Оптимисты почему-то сразу это "в два раза" посчитали от 24 и насчитали аж 48 ракет а не 32.

              ======
              "....The total displacement of the frigate will be increased to 7000 tons, the ammunition load of the Onyx, Zircon, and Caliber missiles will reach 48 units*. New frigates will be equipped with Poliment-Redut air defense missile systems from 96 cells for rockets. ..... "
              (*) - "Россия планирует построить 12 модернизированных фрегатов проекта 22350М" (https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6415468); " (https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6225675);
        3. Dart2027
          Dart2027 April 17 2020 13: 35 New
          +5
          Quote: Doccor18
          And why
          first 16, if 24 can be put?

          In the process of construction and operation, information is gathered and on its basis some design changes can be made. In this case, we are talking about rearrangement of equipment in the compartment.
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 April 17 2020 13: 42 New
            0
            This is all logical.
            However, initially there are not enough 16 cells for the ship for the ocean zone and ... it seems ... the backbone of our surface component.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 17 2020 14: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: Doccor18
              initially not enough 16 cells

              There are 32 more PU Reduta.
              1. Doccor18
                Doccor18 April 17 2020 14: 51 New
                -2
                We are talking about USC, and not about zrk. With zrk there is a separate song.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 April 17 2020 15: 06 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Doccor18
                  With zrk there is a separate song.

                  So the ship is one and the place for installation is limited to its hulls.
                2. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 April 18 2020 12: 32 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Doccor18
                  We are talking about USC, and not about ZKR

                  could spy on the Americans and put missiles in the same UKKS. In fact, the anti-aircraft missile doesn’t care where to start - from a separate launcher or from a unified launcher (if only the dimensions were consistent and there was a connection to the control system)
                  It seems they took the right direction (at UVP), but again did it half
                  1. Doccor18
                    Doccor18 April 18 2020 12: 44 New
                    -1
                    [quote = Grigory_45] [quote = Doccor18] We are talking about USK, and not about Zrk [/ quote]
                    could spy on the Americans and put missiles in the same UKKS. In fact, the anti-aircraft missile doesn’t care where to start - from a separate launcher or from a unified launcher (if only the dimensions were consistent and there was a connection to the control system)
                    It seems to have taken the right direction (at UVP), but again did it in half [/ quote
                    You are right, but ... our PCRs are larger than zur in size, if unified, the total number of cells will decrease.
                    Or go on the path of amers, but then you have to limit yourself to 1,5 ton rockets, and forget about onyx / zircons.
                    1. Grigory_45
                      Grigory_45 April 18 2020 13: 12 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Doccor18
                      but ... our PCRs are larger than zur in size

                      let's say not all.
                      Если вести речь за ныне имеющуюся УКСК, то в нее помещается ракета не большее Оникса (Калибр немного поменьше, в нее же должны устанавливаться Цирконы, проблема будет только с Х-35). Вполне уместится и дальнобойная ЗУР. Если зенитные ракеты малогабаритные, их можно "упаковывать" по нескольку штук в одну ячейку (как и поступают в мире, как поступают и у нас в случае с тем же Редутом). Остался один шаг - не делать отдельную для того же Редута УВП, а поместить ракеты в единую пусковую. Которую можно комплектовать ракетами исходя из конкретной стоящей перед кораблем задачи (ПВО, ПЛО, удар по берегу и т.д.)
                      1. Doccor18
                        Doccor18 April 18 2020 13: 19 New
                        -1
                        I agree with you. Redoubt and UKKS can be completely unified, if desired and with proper funding. However, Onyx, and, it seems, Zircon, is more than 500 mm in diameter. Onyx, if I am not mistaken, is 750 mm., And weighs more than 3 tons. Missiles of the Caliber family will be included in diameter, and in length, it seems, too. But they and TTX in a weaker way. But we are used to having our PCRs - PKRishche!
                      2. Grigory_45
                        Grigory_45 April 18 2020 13: 53 New
                        -1
                        Onyx stands up remarkably in UKSK 3S14 (the launcher was designed taking into account the use of missiles), it is not included in torpedo tubes.

                        Quote: Doccor18
                        we are accustomed that our pcr is PKRishche!

                        I had to pay for it with large dimensions and weight. In addition, most of the Soviet-era missiles are discontinued (the same Granites), therefore it makes no sense to focus on them. Nowadays we have only Onyxes, Caliber and X-35 from shipboard anti-ship missiles
          2. alma
            alma April 17 2020 15: 09 New
            +3
            However, initially not enough 16 cells for the ship for the ocean zone

            This is a ship DMZ
            1. alexmach
              alexmach April 17 2020 16: 03 New
              +4
              Ну а "Москва" вообще корабль океанской зоны, и что-то никого боекомплект в 16 ПКР не смущает. Все бъют себя в грудь что корабль современный.
          3. venik
            venik April 17 2020 20: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: Doccor18
            However, initially not enough 16 cells for the ship for the ocean zone

            =======
            22350 is in no way a ship of the OCEAN zone! According to the displacement, and the main parameters: seaworthiness, autonomy and range - this is a ship 2 (second!) rank - i.e. far sea zones!
            Для таких кораблей 16 ячеек УКСК (учитывая 32 ячейки УВП ЗРК "Редут") - это БОЛЕЕ, чем достаточно!
            For reference, the only frigate in the world that has comparable огневую мощь - это испанский "Альваро де Базан" - 48 ячеек УВП ЗРК + 8 (2х4) палубных ПУ ПКР "Гарпун".
            All the rest are great inferior!
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 April 17 2020 21: 50 New
              +1
              Destroyer - ship of the ocean zone. This is clear. A frigate is a ship in the maritime zone. This is also understandable. Everything would be weighed and in its place, if ... for our fleet they built both. However, we will have to be content only with frigates. And in the marine, and in the FAR marine, and in the ocean zones. Destroyers are not expected.
              And if so, then the frigate should not be a frigate, but a SUPER frigate.
              A comparison with the Spanish Navy is at least incorrect. First, Spain is in NATO, and we are on our own. Secondly, the Russian fleet has a much larger range of tasks than any of the European countries. This means that our ships must have more serious requirements.
              1. alma
                alma April 17 2020 22: 19 New
                +3
                we will have to be content only with frigates. And in the marine, and in the FAR marine, and in the ocean zones. Destroyers are not expected.

                Destroyers are expected. Only they will be called cunningly - frigates of some sort of second / third sub-series. Now they’ll fill their hand in the first buildings, and we’ll enter the rhythm along the engines.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 April 17 2020 22: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: alma
                  Only they will be called cunningly frigates of some kind of second / third sub-series.
                  It would be better to return to the traditional name - the cruiser.
                  3rd rank - corvettes.
                  2nd rank - frigates.
                  1st rank - cruisers
                2. Doccor18
                  Doccor18 April 17 2020 22: 23 New
                  +1
                  We will see.
                  If it is as you said, then it is simply ridiculous.
              2. venik
                venik April 17 2020 22: 31 New
                -2
                Quote: Doccor18
                Destroyer - ship of the ocean zone. This is clear. A frigate is a ship in the maritime zone. This is also understandable. Everything would be weighed and in its place, if ... for our fleet they built both.

                =======
                Do not quite understand the maxim? request
                ------
                Quote: Doccor18
                However, we will have to be content only with frigates. And in the marine, and in the FAR marine, and in the ocean zones.

                ========
                In fact, who do they interferes? Деление на "океанскую", "дальнюю морскую", "ближнюю морскую" и "прибрежную" - весма и весьма УСЛОВНО! Равно, как и деление корабли на "ранги":
                1-й ранг - водоизмещение > 5 000 тонн (авианосцы, крейсера, эсминцы, БПК, УДК и АПЛ) - "океанская зона" и "дальняя морская зона"; Командир корабля приравнивается к командиру полка.
                2-й ранг - водоизмещение 1 500 - 5 000 тонн (фрегаты, сторожевики, БДК, ДЭПЛ) - "дальняя морская зона"; Командир корабля приравнивается к командиру батальона.
                3-й ранг - водоизмещение 500 - 1 500 тонн (корветы, МРК, МПК, тральщики и т.д.) - "ближняя морская зона".
                Т.е, как видите "табель о рангах" - весьма условна! Так, корветы 20380, как и 20385, согласно российской классификации - вполне можно отнести к фрегатам! Парадокс? Нет! Просто классификация -штука УСЛОВНАЯ! Например 22350М - это "суперфрегат" или все-таки ЭСМИНЕЦ? По водоизмещению - ну почти "Бёрк"; По вооружению - так и much more powerful (144 УВП против 98 - 117 на "Бёрках"..... Так - КТО он будет? "Суперфрегат"... Эсминец?
                В принципе КАКАЯ на фиг РАЗНИЦА? Да "хоть горшком назови!".....
                --------
                Quote: Doccor18
                A comparison with the Spanish Navy is at least incorrect.

                =======
                Здрасьте Вам! Вы, извините, в "своем уме"? А с кем же тогда сравнивать, как не с потенциальным противником? С Martians? Or with yourself? (fool sorry! surprised surprised!!!).
                1. Doccor18
                  Doccor18 April 17 2020 22: 39 New
                  -1
                  [Quote] [/ quote]
                  Well .... insults rushed ...
                  Испанцы сами, как-то сказали, что "усеченная" Иджис им вполне, так как фрегаты они будут использовать исключительно в составе эскадры в акватории Бискайского залива...
                  I think that for our frigates they will pose broader tasks.
                  Therefore, I wrote about the incorrectness of comparing the Russian frigate with the Spanish. They have different tasks, and therefore there should be different opportunities.
                  1. venik
                    venik April 17 2020 23: 23 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    Well .... insults rushed ...

                    ======
                    Ну во-первых, Александр, если "сгрубил" - Прошу прощения - не хотел обидеть! hi
                    ---------
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    Therefore, I wrote about the incorrectness of comparing the Russian frigate with the Spanish. They have different tasks, and therefore there should be different opportunities.

                    =======
                    Господи! Да Вы, Александр, к сожалению так и не поняли, ЧТО я написал.... А писал я о СОВОКУПНОЙ (!!!) огневой мощи! Да! Задачи - РАЗНЫЕ! .... Так они и во ВСЕХ флотах (и даже "внутри" одного флота могут быть РАЗНЫМИ!). И даже не в одном флоте, а даже в рамках ОДНОГО ПРОЕКТА! Да, да! Посмотрите на проект 1134 и 1134А - первый - missile cruisersecond - BOD!!!
                    Вопрос: А КАК же тогда СРАВНИВАЮТ???? Ответ - прост, "как угол дома" - по СОВОКУПНОСТИ характеристик!
                    "де Базан" фрегат, "заточенный" на ПВО (по этому параметру он даже превосходит такого "универсала", как "Горшок". Not much но превосходит!). Но при этом серьезно уступает "Горшку" в percussion, and especially in anti-submarine opportunities !!!
                    Но! По СОВОКУПНОЙ огневой мощи - они СОПОСТАВИМЫ! Ну а все остальные - "and didn’t lie close"! hi
      3. venik
        venik April 17 2020 16: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: Doccor18
        That is - this is not 22350M?

        ======
        Нет! 22350М будут иметь гораздо более мощное вооружение: БК «Оникс»,«Циркон»,«Калибр» достигнет 48 единиц (6 х 8 УКСК 3С-14), а УВП ЗРК «Полимент-Редут» будет увеличина с 32 до 96 ячеек. Т.е. по количеству пучковых ячеек он будет превосходить "Берки" почти в 1.5 раза!
        ---------
        Quote: Doccor18
        And why the first 16, if 24 can be put?

        =======
        Наверное, нужно было убедиться, что "перегруза" не будет да и места будет будет хватать.... Ну и возможно кое-какие конструкции немного облегчили.....
        1. Peter is not the first
          Peter is not the first April 17 2020 22: 20 New
          0
          It was written that with an increase in the number of cells from 16 to 24, the displacement of the ship also increased. So it is possible that it was not the draft of the ship and the reduction of internal free volumes that increased, but the dimensions of the hull.
          1. venik
            venik April 17 2020 22: 48 New
            -1
            Quote: Peter is not the first
            It was written that with an increase in the number of cells from 16 to 24, the displacement of the ship also increased.

            =======
            Петр! Вы невнимательно читали статью: "...The developers managed to carve out a place on board the frigate to add another one to two sections of eight launchers. At the same time, the frigate's displacement changed insignificantly..... "
            -----------
            Quote: Peter is not the first
            So it is possible that it was not the draft of the ship and the reduction of internal free volumes that increased, but the dimensions of the hull.

            ========
            Вряд ли! Когда в прошлом году закладывались «Адмирал Чичагов» и «Адмирал Амелько», речь о дополнительном вооружении только рассматривалась, как "гипотетическая".... А значит и разметка на плазе, изготовление элементов киля и шпангоутов, раскройка листов и т.д. - всё шло практически с "гарантией" on the initial draft! But redesigning the interior at this stage of construction is quite possible!
            Так, что "съем свою шляпу" (с фуражкой в придачу!), если они ("Чичагов" и "Амелько") - хоть на метр будут отличаться от "Горшка" и "Касатоныча"! hi soldier
    4. ancient
      ancient April 17 2020 11: 12 New
      +6
      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
      Although in my opinion it is more logical to equip Zircons in the first place

      Хотя на мой взгляд логичнее всё таки получить хоть один.."полностью действующий" Циркон, начать серийное производство, а уж потом .."надувать щёки( или растопыривать пальцы wassat) и предаваться..."сладким мечтам и грёзам" repeat
      1. Sky strike fighter
        Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 19 New
        +1
        And what do you think has been successfully tested as a last resort for a ground target in the northern Urals from the side of the frigate Gorshkov? You say so as if Zircon is a myth. For some reason, no one doubts about RCC Neptune. Although it is at the same stage.
        1. ancient
          ancient April 17 2020 11: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: Sky Strike fighter
          was tested for the last time on a ground target in the northern Urals from aboard the frigate Gorshkov?

          Между .."испытывалось" и..."претворение в жизнь"........пропасть времени wink
          Хотя для "уря-патриотов"...это нормально wassat
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 40 New
            +4
            Между .."испытывалось" и..."претворение в жизнь"........пропасть времени wink

            Your words are relevant for RCC Neptune. You’ll be inundated with video, patriots of the local flood in ecstasy.
            1. ancient
              ancient April 17 2020 11: 41 New
              +2
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              Youtube is littered with video

              But more specifically? belay
              1. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 43 New
                +1
                Video of recent trials of RCC Neptune. Relax.
            2. ancient
              ancient April 17 2020 16: 53 New
              +8
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              Your words are relevant for RCC Neptune

              Занимаетесь "притягиванием за уши"...лишь бы выбраться из той ситуации, в которую сами себя загнали ...своими.."лозунгами".
              Причём тут Х_35? Ей в "обед" будет уже как 35 лет..."в строю".
              And why shouldn’t this rocket suddenly have to fly at ..country 404?
              1. Sky strike fighter
                Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 17: 15 New
                0
                Занимаетесь "притягиванием за уши"

                This is what you do.
                лишь бы выбраться из той ситуации, в которую сами себя загнали ...своими.."лозунгами".

                In more detail, in what situation have we driven ourselves and what are interesting slogans?
                Причём тут Х_35? Ей в "обед" будет уже как 35 лет..."в строю".

                Since 2003, the first version of the X-35 is in service, since 2015, the universal X-35U is in service. I spoke about Neptune and was surprised at your bias towards the trials of Zircon, while with similar trials of Neptune you have directly opposite emotions. And where is your objectivity?
                And why shouldn’t this rocket suddenly have to fly at ..country 404?

                And why shouldn’t the Zircon rocket suddenly have to fly near the Russian Federation? I did not say that Neptune should not.
                1. ancient
                  ancient April 17 2020 17: 47 New
                  +9
                  Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                  and marveled at your bias towards the trials of Zircon

                  У меня нет никакой предвзятости к Циркону, а есть ..претензии к вашему.."балабольству"!
                  Today, there are in fact slogans, media articles and one photo ... supposedly ...

                  Do you know about the gopher? wassat
                  Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                  while with similar trials of Neptune you have exactly the opposite emotions

                  А какие у меня эмоции по поводу "Нептуна"???? belay
                  В том что он летает, а не..."бегает" wassat
                  After all, you yourself write that the first X-35s were in service with us in 2003, but in general:

                  The first version of the preliminary design of the rocket was considered in 1983 and, due to non-compliance with the requirements for the characteristics of the radar seeker, it was sent for revision (source). According to sources, another Resolution on the development of the complex was adopted by the USSR Council of Ministers on April 16, 1984 (source).

                  Tests The first launch from the landfill ground launcher was planned on November 4, 1985, but due to a malfunction in automation (incorrect information was issued about the opening of the TPK covers), the launch did not take place. The first successful launch was carried out (on the second attempt that day) on November 5, 1985 at the training ground of the 31st Test Center of the USSR Ministry of Defense (Feodosia, Crimea). According to the launch program, it was assumed that the rocket would fly 40 km. The missile successfully left the TPK, flew about 50 meters and fell into the sea (source). This launch is considered the first launch in the program of flight design tests of RCC X-35.

                  Первый публичный показ ракеты состоялся на выставке "Мосаэрошоу-1992".
                  So why can't it be in the country 404? request
                  А лозунги какие ваши? - как в том анекдоте..."вот ещё пробежим ещё 3 круга Карл и мы...её догоним" wassat
                  1. Sky strike fighter
                    Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 18: 03 New
                    -3
                    That is, the reports of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation about the defeat of the ground target by Zircon at a distance of more than 500 km from the side of the frigate Gorshkov and the data of the American intelligence about the test of Zircon do not believe you. Do you see the need to show the goods face, despite the fact that this is a secret development? Otherwise, you won’t take anyone’s word. Have I correctly stated your train of thought?
                    By the way, you didn’t mention the gopher in vain. If you do not see the gopher, it does not mean that it is not there. It is the same with Zircon. See everything in due time.
                    So why can't it be in the country 404?

                    I ask again: when did I say that?
                    как в том анекдоте..."вот ещё пробежим ещё 3 круга Карл и мы...её догоним"

                    What is it and what is it about? Which Karl? Who will catch up with whom? Zircon is a new milestone in the history of the creation of RCC / KR, for the first time and again it’s a hypersound, and even in quite compact reasonable sizes, naturally no one is going to share information. And you show it all, show it.
                    1. ancient
                      ancient April 17 2020 19: 47 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      That is, the reports of the Russian Defense Ministry about the defeat of a ground target by Zircon at a distance of more than 500 km from the side of the frigate Gorshkov

                      Мне лично ничего, кроме 2букFF".
                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      and you don’t believe the US intelligence about the Zircon test.

                      Почему не верю...верю .что идут испытания и американцам верю...ведь только вы думаете, что вероятный противник может только.."лаптем щи хлебать".
                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      See everything in due time.

                      Now when we see, then we will fellow
                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      So why can't it be in the country 404?

                      I ask again: when did I say that?

                      And this is not your quote ??? -
                      Your words are relevant for RCC Neptune. You’ll be inundated with video, patriots of the local flood in ecstasy.

                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      Zircon is a new milestone in the history of the creation of anti-ship missiles / missiles, for the first time and again it’s a hypersound, and even in quite compact reasonable sizes

                      Гиперзвуковая крылатая ракета большой дальности (проект) / гиперзвуковой экспериментальный летательный аппарат (ГЭЛА). Разработка ракеты Х-90 велась в МКБ "Радуга" (г.Дубна) совместно с ЦАГИ в 1980-е годы для замены на вооружении Дальней Авиации КРБД Х-55. Генеральный конструктор - И.С.Селезнев. Разработка явилась продолжением работ по созданию гиперзвуковой ракеты, начатых в МКБ "Радуга" в начале 1970-х годов созданием гиперзвуковых прототипов "Модель1" (испытания 1973-1978 г.г.) и "Модель 2" (1980-1985 г.г.). Подготовка производства и производство ракет по теме Б-239 МКБ "Радуга" начаты в 1986 г. на Тушинском машиностроительном заводе. Кроме нескольких технологических и конструкторских экземпляров по теме Б-239 было построено и три летных экземпляра ракет. Информации об успешных летных испытаниях Х-90 у нас нет.

                      On the basis of the X-90 rocket project, in the late 1980s and early 1990s, an experimental hypersonic apparatus, GELA, was created and supposedly tested (source). According to unconfirmed data from the TV programs, the first flight tests of either the X-90 prototype or the GELA took place at Engels airbase in early December 1987. The airborne rocket engine test bench for the GELA, designed for marching speed 4.5M, was successfully completed in October 1988. Project work X-90s were discontinued in 1992. For the first time in public, the GEL apparatus was demonstrated at the MAKS-1995 air show in Ramenskoye.

                      При описании ракеты Х-90 / ГЭЛА в различных СМИ и прочих источниках (в т.ч. вполне заслуженных) часто возникает путаница с КРБД "Метеорит" - AS-X-19 KOALA.
                    2. Sky strike fighter
                      Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 20: 29 New
                      -3
                      Well, how much did the X-90 weigh? 15 tons. It was planned to place 160 X-2s on the Tu-90. The range of 3000-3500 km was good, but the weight was bad. It was largely because of this that the X-90 was not adopted for service. There are few platforms for them. Zircon fits into the standard UKKS sizes at hypersonic speed, which for the first time achieved a balance between the size and performance characteristics of a hypersonic missile.
                    3. Grigory_45
                      Grigory_45 April 18 2020 13: 27 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Sky Strike fighter
                      Zircon, however, fully fits into the standard UKKS sizes at hypersonic speed, which is the first time that a balance has been achieved between the size and performance characteristics of a hypersonic missile

                      Do you know the performance characteristics of the rocket (Zircon)? Where, if, as you say, the development is so secret that you can’t even show a photograph of a rocket? A TTX can be published?
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD April 17 2020 10: 55 New
    +4
    The developers managed to carve out a place on board the frigate to add another one to two sections of eight launchers. In this case, the displacement of the frigate has changed slightly.
    That's interesting - how? Maybe the dimensions were increased, but the layout was redrawn. Or maybe the crew will be smaller, and more automation. In general, of course, the good news ... 24 launchers .. not enough! wink
    1. Overlock
      Overlock April 17 2020 10: 59 New
      10
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      24 launchers .. not enough!

      request так и так "засунули невсуваемое". И на том спасибо
      1. ancient
        ancient April 17 2020 11: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Overlock
        так и так "засунули невсуваемое". И на том спасибо

        Пообещать ( что в крайнее время делается весьма регулярно и на всех ..."фронтах" wink ) ещё не значит....."жениться" wassat
    2. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 01 New
      -1
      For the frigate 22350, its size is normal. But why didn’t you find a place for 24 launchers from the very beginning, if this was originally possible?
      1. jonht
        jonht April 17 2020 11: 17 New
        +2
        Most likely, the free volumes pledged for modernization were used. And maybe they stung the crew’s area, taking out some of the equipment from the vacated area.
        Although, who can except the developers themselves know exactly. hi
    3. alexmach
      alexmach April 17 2020 12: 40 New
      0
      That's interesting - how?

      If you take a look at the photographs you can see that the UKKS are placed perpendicular to the board in the bow. Perhaps lengthened by a meter and a half to 2 of one of the sections?
      1. bayard
        bayard April 17 2020 13: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: alexmach
        Perhaps lengthened by a meter and a half to 2 of one of the sections?

        Не-е , развернули на 90 градусов (в положение "вдоль борта) и уместили аккурат 3 УКСК . Такое решение напрашивалось сразу - очевидно , что место гуляет . Да и БК из 24 КР гораздо рациональней :
        - 8 PLO;
        - 8 anti-ship missiles;
        - 8 KR on the ground.
        As a result, to fulfill the knowledge base there will be an assortment for everything, with possible variations.
        1. alexmach
          alexmach April 17 2020 16: 00 New
          0
          Не-е , развернули на 90 градусов (в положение "вдоль борта) и уместили аккурат 3 УКСК . Такое решение напрашивалось сразу - очевидно , что место гуляет

          Obviously the place is walking? And the mass also walks? And where is she walking?

          The mass of one UKKS 14 tons. If, for example, load it with Onyxes we get + 24 Tons. Onyxes in the Launch glass + 31 tons, okay, well, let's say we dispensed with glasses, total + 8 UKKS cells are + 38 tons. Is it like this just that you can add 38 tons to the bow of the ship? or still you have to add something else to balance the stern? Yes, and given the fact that the missiles, of which now in three UKKS can be up to 73 tons, can shoot, which will ease the nose ...
          1. bayard
            bayard April 17 2020 19: 17 New
            +3
            How exactly the three UKKS will be located was shown a year ago, when the previous two buildings were laid. Surely they also thought about balancing, but unfortunately they did not report the details ... request
            The 22350M seems to add a section with three more UKKS in the same way located, bringing the ammunition up to 48 units. The picture was also given.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 April 17 2020 19: 21 New
              0
              Quote: bayard
              The 22350M seems to add a section with three more UKKS in the same way located, bringing the ammunition up to 48 units.

              No, there the whole ammunition will be increased by both Caliber and Redoubt.
              1. bayard
                bayard April 17 2020 20: 16 New
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                No, there the whole ammunition will be increased by both Caliber and Redoubt.

                Well, that means two sections.
                Just kidding.
                Of course I know about it. Hopefully next year they will already be laid.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 April 17 2020 22: 20 New
                  +1
                  Quote: bayard
                  Hopefully next year already laid

                  I hope.
            2. alexmach
              alexmach April 17 2020 20: 24 New
              +1
              How exactly three UKKS will be placed was shown a year ago

              Unfortunately, I have not seen.
              But in general, as they have already said in other comments, the main question is not how they will be raised, but how quickly they can be built in a series ...
              1. bayard
                bayard April 17 2020 23: 53 New
                +1
                Everything will depend on how domestic power plants show themselves on sea trials. If there are no complicated shoals and you don’t have to redo / eliminate anything critical, then the power plant is successful and nothing will hinder serial production.
                А если ГЭУ есть , то и темпы строительства фрегатов будут 4 - 5 лет - 5 лет на начальном этапе и порядка 4 лет когда серия пойдёт в разгон . О том , что так и будет , свидетельствуют сроки строительства предыдущей серии фрегатов - т.н. "индийский заказ" . Тогда вообще в 3,5 года укладывались . И первые три черноморских фрегата в том же темпе построили .
                The same will happen with the 22350 and 22350M, when all issues with the power plant will be resolved, now only this slows down normal operation. And the fact that the frigates are laying in pairs for the second year, indicates that everything should be normal with the GEM.
                Another sign of this is the early launch of a frigate from the first domestic power plant. They were supposed to be lowered in the middle of summer, and lowered in the period from late April to early May. So installation installation went smoothly and without any problems. It remains to wait for the descent and sea trials.
                After 5 years, the entire series (8 frigates) will be in operation.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach April 18 2020 09: 47 New
                  0
                  After 5 years, the entire series (8 frigates) will be in operation.

                  Hmm ... just need more of them ... But in general, your forecast is realistic.
                  Тут по-моему не только вопрос в том "как покажут" но и в скорости производства, в том числе и ГЭУ. Первую опытную чуть ли не год собирали на стенде.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard April 18 2020 11: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: alexmach
                    Hmm ... just need more of them ..

                    If you are about the prospect in 5 years, then if the 22350M bookmarks begin next year at a rate of 2 per year, then there will be another 5 8M destroyers on the stocks, in completion and in tests (22350 years later). But this is if you build on one shipyard, and USC seems going to drive them with two shipyards, apparently they will connect Kaliningrad.
                    Production capacities for power plants were created \ are created at the rate of building a large fleet at a good pace, so there will be enough power plants for shipyards. If only their tests and refinement passed without delays and executions.
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach April 18 2020 17: 14 New
                      0
                      then if bookmarks 22350M begin next year at a rate of 2 per year

                      and USC seems going to drive them by two shipyards, apparently they will connect Kaliningrad

                      Oops .. and here you have become overly optimistic.
                      1. bayard
                        bayard April 18 2020 18: 40 New
                        +1
                        I just listed the statements made, but any loafer can fill up any good deed.
                        I appreciated the opportunities and plans. There were statements from USC that they were ready to lay 4 buildings each year only in the Baltic shipyards ... which, by the way, was done last year. How will it be - let's see.
                        Well, the reasons for our long-term construction should be looked at objectively. There are already (I hope) no reasons for them, but the work will show everything.
                      2. alexmach
                        alexmach April 19 2020 10: 44 New
                        +1
                        Hmm .. see what they write in the next article. As per order.
                        Regarding the improved frigate of project 22350M, it is reported that after the completion of the preliminary design in 2019, the military did not make any decision on further work on the project.

                        In general, there is no certainty regarding the 22350M, only a preliminary design is ready, and so far no specifics are on.
                        There were statements from USC that they were ready to lay 4 buildings each year only in the Baltic shipyards ... which, by the way, was done last year. How will it be - let's see.
                      3. bayard
                        bayard April 19 2020 13: 16 New
                        0
                        In the next article (in the comments) I already wrote off my opinion. In addition, it was still about plans to force majeure with a fictitious virus. If the space marines landed from the planet Nibiru tomorrow, they will show it to us on TV and ask them to throw in cartridges, this will also be a new reality and an occasion to abandon some plans.
                        With 22350M problems most likely with power plants on gas turbines M70FRU and M90FR and their gearbox, and laying ships with an unprepared and untested power plant is a crime. Apparently, therefore, it was decided so far to slow down work with the 22350M, and continue to continue the 22350+ series. Therefore, quite recently, the opinion was voiced that a brigade of frigates 22350+ would also be built for the Black Sea Fleet.
                        But even these plans are directly dependent on whether the landing party will land from Nibiru, and whether the evil coronovirus will eat everyone.
                        In the meantime - Christ is Risen, The fire was lit, life goes on! drinks
                      4. alexmach
                        alexmach April 19 2020 18: 00 New
                        0
                        In addition, it was still about plans to force majeure with a fictitious virus

                        Да при чем же здесь вирус. Сказано же закончили эскизное проектирование в 2019, ещё до вируса, дальше МО думает. Раз думает то значит никаких планов пока и не было то. А все заявления типа "мы могли бы" это разговоры не о чем.
                        With 22350M problems are most likely with power plants on gas turbines M70FRU and M90FR and their gearbox

                        Знатоки говорят как раз что проблемы с этими ГЭУ, и особенно с редукторами должно быть меньше чем с ГЭУ 22350. "Дружить" две высокооборотистые турбины легче чем турбину и дизель.
                        and laying ships with an unprepared and untested GEM is a crime

                        Firstly, no crime. The ship and the power plant for it begin to build plus or minus at the same time. Well, experience 22350 showed that Russia is able to bring at least one project to its logical end. And the GEM by 22350M would be brought to readiness.

                        Well, with one comment above, you wrote that almost 2 brigades of them will be laid down in the next 5 years ... This ship will not be ready for bookmarking, let alone mass. Moreover, there is no decision to build them yet.
                        Apparently, therefore, it was decided so far to slow down the work with the 22350M

                        IMHO a strange decision, maybe by the way they are waiting for launching and testing 22350+
                        Therefore, quite recently, the opinion was voiced that a brigade of frigates 22350+ would also be built for the Black Sea Fleet

                        The brigade? Yes, at least a couple would have been built for him, I’m still silent about at least the brigade for the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet. And this is already almost 2 times more than the number of ships laid down and planned for construction at the given moment.
                        But generally correct. 22350 and + should be built as much as possible until other ships of other development options for the surface fleet capable of operating in the DMZ have been mastered and there are none.
                      5. bayard
                        bayard April 19 2020 18: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: alexmach
                        Yes, what does the virus have to do with it?

                        Well, let me restrain my unreasonable fears. lol

                        Quote: alexmach
                        It is said that they finished the outline design in 2019,

                        Yes, at the end of the year. And this year (presumably until the end of it) a full technical project should be completed.
                        But.
                        One of these days (until the middle of May) the first frigate with the domestic power plant should be launched. Sea trials of it can begin before the end of this year, but they need at least another year to complete them.
                        At this time, the GEM for the 22350M is not yet ready. It is of course simpler to implement, you are right, but on it the work of both turbines should be plus on the gearbox at full speed. That is, this GEM must be properly tested first at the stand, and it will take a year or two.
                        Moreover, with such difficulty the obtained GEM for 22350, if the series is not continued, may be limited to a series of only 4 sets ... this is very, VERY irrational. Therefore, it seems that a decision was made to continue the 22350+ series, laying MORE 4 pcs. for the Black Sea Fleet, bringing the entire series to at least 12 copies. The very two years of the lag, before the appearance of a fully tested GEM for the 22350M, can be used for laying them.
                        То есть мощности ССЗ-ов простаивать не будут , напротив , будут задействованы полностью . А вот когда промышленность будет полностью готова к закладкам 22350М , они и будут заложены . И процент новизны в новых кораблях относительно 22350 не превысит 15 - 20% , что является оптимумом для промышленности . Ведь 22350М , это тот же "Горшков" , но большего ВИ , с новой ГЭУ и увеличенным боекомплектом(КР и ЗУР) . Всё остальное будет прежним .
                        And this is good .
                        In addition, enterprises must also be prepared to start production of a new GEM, and this is time, costs and stress for the industry. Therefore, the industry should be protected from stress.
                        Quote: alexmach

                        Well, with one comment above, you wrote that there will be almost 2 brigades of them in the next 5 years ...

                        This is not my statement, but Putin and the head of the USC - 12 frigate-destroyers, with an option for another 6 pcs.
                        Decision is made .
                        But the contracts have not been signed yet, because there is not yet a technical project and the GEM is not ready. Well, the new production will not be pulled by the launch of almost simultaneously the production of TWO new power plants request , let it be gradual - launch turbodiesel couples, fix all their childhood illnesses and launch full and reliable products in a series, and only then launch the next product in a series. So it will be more correct.
                        It seems to me that this is the case.
                        In any case, the ships will be laid down, which we should see very soon - before May 9th. hi
  • sanik2020
    sanik2020 April 17 2020 11: 00 New
    +1
    It will be pleasant when the ships are launched, otherwise there was talk at the top about the revision of cash flows in the defense industry. The owners of factories and shipyards, amid the economic downturn, will begin to tear the budget cake and pull the blanket over themselves and, as usual, accuse each other of disrupting the defense order. Examples are already available.
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter April 17 2020 11: 07 New
      +3
      But what’s the point? This will only aggravate the situation, because then factories will rise and unemployment will increase. During the crisis, it is necessary to start new jobs in order to revive the economy and overcome the crisis, and not vice versa. These are elementary things. What is not clear? If everything is stopped, then it is simply impossible to get out of the crisis. Post-Soviet Eastern Europe, as an example, where everything stopped after the Union and everything in industry is not very successful.
  • Valery Valery
    Valery Valery April 17 2020 11: 03 New
    0
    The power of the Navy is growing !!
  • g1v2
    g1v2 April 17 2020 11: 17 New
    +1
    According to the good frigates 22350 and 22350m, 15 pieces and 30 pieces are needed now, after 15-20 years, all fleets will be retired, as 956 Sarychei, BPC 1155, old Black Sea men and Baltic 11540 are dropped out. and in general, the GEM needs to be addressed first. The project is excellent, if you expand the bottlenecks and build it continuously in large batches, you can reduce the cost and seriously accelerate the construction. It would be nice, after solving issues with the geo-electric power plant, to master the project also at Yantar. TO BUILD IMMEDIATELY ON TWO SHIPYARDS.
  • Eskobar
    Eskobar April 17 2020 12: 19 New
    +3
    "Предполагается, что фрегаты, входящие в эту серию, станут серьезным сдерживающим фактором и укрепят обороноспособность Российской Федерации." Для этого они должны хотя бы быть! А то за требуемый срок из 8 корабле сдали 1! И один дай бог в этом году флоту передадут
  • Old26
    Old26 April 17 2020 14: 00 New
    +2
    Quote: oleg1263
    A bit strange reaction. Motivate, if not difficult.

    Сорри, Олег, а чем мотивировать? Мотивировать, простите, вашу глупость насчет того, что "Циркон" есть оморяченная Х-32? Можно узнать, как можно ракеты, длиной в 12 метров и габаритами (описанная окружность вокруг сложенных плоскостей - порядка 1,3-1,5 метров) засунуть в универсальную пусковую установку длиной метров 8-8,5 и диаметром менее 0,9 метров? Кувалдой ее туда забивать?
  • Old26
    Old26 April 17 2020 21: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Sky Strike fighter
    Well, how many X-90 weighed

    А не было такой ракеты. ЕЕ название - выдумка наших СМИ. То, что сейчас называют "ненашим" словом "Фейк".
  • Nemchinov Vl
    Nemchinov Vl April 18 2020 15: 27 New
    0
    The seventh and eighth frigates of project 22350 will now be able to arm 24 assault missiles of various types.
    years ago, news about the laying of frigates sounded the same ....
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 April 18 2020 15: 29 New
    0
    24...в четыре раза меньше "Арли Бёрка" и почти в пять раз меньше, чем на Тип 55...Чем гордиться?