Military Review

5th generation Chinese fighter dependent on Russian engine

67

In China, gathered to accelerate the production of fifth-generation fighter Chengdu J-20. It is expected that at least 40 such aircraft will be produced each year. The J-20 fighter is to become one of the main PLA air forces in the foreseeable future.


Recall that the J-20 Black Eagle fighter was developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation, located in Chengdu, Sichuan. It was this company 18 years ago, in 2002, that was chosen by the Chinese authorities to begin research and development work on the development of the latest fighter for the PLA Air Force. In 2009, the command of the PLA Air Force told that work on the creation of the aircraft continues, and in 2011 he made his first experimental flight.

According to the Chinese classification, it refers to fourth-generation fighters, according to the Western classification, to fifth-generation fighters. Much in the appearance and in the technical characteristics of the aircraft resembles the fifth-generation American fighter F-22 and F-35, as well as the Soviet-Russian prototype MiG-1.44.

The Sohu edition, describing the Chengdu J-20 fighter, notes its outstanding performance. According to the author of the publication, he is not inferior to other aircraft of this generation. By the power of weapons and the quality of the radar system, according to Sohu, the J-20 is quite comparable to the American F-22 fighter. As for the invisibility of a heavy fighter, here the Chinese plane even surpasses similar American cars.

At the same time, many technical characteristics of the aircraft remain secret: while the Chinese military are in no hurry to disclose details about the new fighter. It is known that the length of the aircraft is 20,3 m, the wingspan is 12,88 m, the height is 4,45 m, and the mass is 17 tons. Range - 5500 km, practical ceiling - 20000 m. The crew of the J-20 consists of one pilot.

Sohu is proud to emphasize that the entire body of the J-20 fighter is assembled in China, with the exception of the engine. The aircraft is equipped with the Russian AL-31FN engine, made for fourth-generation fighters. Its differences from the F119 engine installed on the F-22, and allowed foreign military experts to talk about the insufficient power of the Chinese fighter. So far, the J-20 continues to be dependent on engines from Russia.

However, Chinese readers themselves responded absolutely adequately to Sohu's reproaches regarding the quality of the Russian engine:

Do not be arrogant! Is there a domestic engine with qualified long-term and low maintenance costs? Can it be mass produced?

Recognizing that the J-20 really does not have advantages in the engine, the Chinese publication, however, writes that the fighter has other strengths. For example, it is made according to the “duck wing” scheme, that is, the horizontal plumage is located in front of the center of mass, which allows for greater maneuverability. At the same time, according to the Chinese publication, the design of the “duck wing” does not affect the stealth of the aircraft.

Now, according to official figures, in the arsenal of the Air Force of the People's Liberation Army of China, there are only 6 J-20 fighter aircraft. The operation of the Chinese military aviation they arrived in 2017-2019. In the future, the manufacturing company plans to produce at least 40 J-20 aircraft per year.

The main problem that China may encounter with further mass production of aircraft is precisely the lack of its own engines. The 4th generation Chinese WS-10A engine has low stability and has an insignificant resource of 25-40 hours compared with the required 400-800 hours.

The AL-31FN engine, which Russia supplies for the J-10, for the J-20, is no longer powerful enough, but so far there is no alternative. The only thing that remains for the Chinese is to wait for deliveries of more powerful and modern Russian engines, although the PRC often says in the press that they are ready to equip their latest fighters with their own power plants.
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  1. alekc75
    alekc75 April 15 2020 11: 33 New
    -4
    there is nothing for the Chinese to supply engines !!! no one!!!
    1. Snarkxnumx
      Snarkxnumx April 15 2020 11: 59 New
      19
      "" there is nothing for the Chinese to supply engines !!! not one !!! "" I completely agree with you !!!! Why not supply AL-31FN to China, RD-180 to the USA, T-90 to India, Project 636 to Vietnam (DEPL), etc. Kill our industry. Oh ... "frames" decide everything ...
      1. awdrgy
        awdrgy April 15 2020 19: 05 New
        -1
        Yes, it’s necessary not to supply them so that they wouldn’t build their own from hopelessness. But they should be 1) with bookmarks 2) Initially unsuitable for disassembling without critical damage, these should also be dead-end versions for further modernization (of course, nothing has been done) Unfortunately they will sell normally and they will copy them and then make them better than ours (it’s just a matter of time) Generally speaking, this all flows into questions both externally and domestically. So many different “whys” appear. Americans are pushing their f16. f22 If we followed a similar policy, then the Chinese would have stopped for a moment29 And so they would have “gifted” technology not “then” - now it’s sideways and “afterwards” And is it business in industry? It could have exported itself older letting out, the current would go in the way for until a certain point the products for the buyer were uncontested but now the rubicon has been passed and we already know these unpronounceable names of Chinese newspapers I once saw the performance of this Chinese special forces for the protection of underground communications (at least they called it) Even then it was clear that these “robots” are, to put it mildly, dangerous as competitors all the more so that we have a common border. And the fact that they are now clashing with amers gives us nothing (even though across the ocean they aren’t farting (roughly speaking) and they will arrange for us sanctions such that it really doesn’t seem like much, but what about sanctions (do we have much left at the border? although even they could only delay and were able) But this is me about cheers and border-nostalgia about the former power of the country
        1. Nosgoth
          Nosgoth April 19 2020 17: 13 New
          0
          Learn to use commas, and even the meaning of your first sentence is twofold, such as "you can’t execute pardon."
          1. awdrgy
            awdrgy April 19 2020 17: 20 New
            0
            I don’t have them because Klava was flooded with honey a year ago and repairing laziness and the sentence was complicated there. So when you fully read it, the meaning becomes unambiguous. In general, the nada will understand all the more with the rest
    2. Peter is not the first
      Peter is not the first April 15 2020 12: 01 New
      +5
      Maybe we’ll even exchange for barter, we have 6 engines for them, and they give us one plane for familiarization and study. winked How, lip is not a fool or cheaper? wink
      We are not in that situation so far as to push away from ourselves an unreliable, but so far supporting us, partner in world politics. China more often supports us in the UN than the countries of the "Customs Union".
    3. Mastodon
      Mastodon April 15 2020 12: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: alekc75
      there is nothing for the Chinese to supply engines !!! no one!!!

      Engines can be delivered (they pay well), but it’s better to save the technology under seven locks .. They love to shave, however, but you can copy only externally, but they won’t succeed in filling and filling, it’s too complicated ..
    4. bars1
      bars1 April 15 2020 12: 42 New
      +1
      alekc75, Yes, you argue like a breeze from Ukraine!
    5. Atlant-1164
      Atlant-1164 April 15 2020 12: 56 New
      +7
      "The Sohu edition, describing the Chengdu J-20 fighter, notes its outstanding performance." -Well, what can I say .. "the giraffe is big, he knows better")
      1. Drёma
        Drёma April 16 2020 07: 17 New
        0
        With outstanding ... classified features lol
  2. bars1
    bars1 April 15 2020 11: 34 New
    0
    What will the Chinese say about the lower keels?
  3. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 15 2020 11: 34 New
    +1
    40 a year. 3 per month. Not bad! Three squadrons every 2 years.
    The Americans will have to strain.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 April 15 2020 11: 43 New
      +3
      Lockheed Martin has collected 138 F35 fighters for 2019, and this is not the limit. There the whole question is in money, they will pay, and they will collect more.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 15 2020 12: 03 New
        +5
        The F-35 assembly plant in 2019 went to 12 aircraft per month.
        The limit of the plant is 15-16 aircraft per month.
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 April 15 2020 12: 50 New
          0
          "In 2020, Lockheed Martin plans to supply 141 F-35 aircraft, and continue to increase its production by 2023 inclusive." LiveJournal.
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell April 15 2020 12: 57 New
          +4
          There is also an Italian assembly line ...
          1. Liam
            Liam April 15 2020 13: 02 New
            0
            There is also Japanese
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 April 15 2020 13: 25 New
              +2
              The American corporation Lockheed Martin announced that in the calendar year 2019 it built at its factory in Fort Worth (Texas) and delivered a record number of fifth-generation fighters F-35 Lightning II. In 2019, 134 F-35 aircraft of all modifications were delivered (with a plan of 131 aircraft), while in 2018 only 91 aircraft were delivered.
              This is without foreign partners-
              manufacturers.
              1. Liam
                Liam April 15 2020 13: 50 New
                +1
                Italy produces the F-35A and B for itself and the F-35A for the Netherlands. In 2019, if I am not mistaken, it produced 13 units for Italy and 1 for the Netherlands
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 15 2020 14: 25 New
                  -1
                  ABOUT! This is very, very good. More than 1 per month. Assembly is very complicated.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam April 15 2020 16: 26 New
                    +1
                    In addition to assembling aircraft, they also make wings that go already in the USA to American assembly lines. And expand production. In addition to the Italian and Dutch parties will collect more Belgian and Polish contracts
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A April 15 2020 14: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Doccor18
        Lockheed Martin has collected 138 F35 fighters for 2019, and this is not the limit. There the whole question is in money, they will pay, and they will collect more.

        Or maybe the Chinese do not need so much?

        America needs a lot and a lot of planes - all over the world to stick on the bases, "teasers" and "partners" to get involved ...
        And China - only for defense ...
    2. askort154
      askort154 April 15 2020 12: 00 New
      +5
      voyaka uh 40 a year. 3 per month. Not bad! Three squadrons every 2 years.
      The Americans will have to strain.


      With an engine resource of 25-40 hours, whom can it "strain"?
      Only China itself. Resource engines that piston, that turbo-jet,
      always been a problem in the USSR. All the time on this "indicator" lagged behind the Anglo-German-French. Now close. And China will lag behind in this category of engine building for a long time. Favorite saying of teachers of the "movement" in their classrooms - "engine, this is the heart of the plane!" As recent decades show, all are subject to China
      technological copying, except for engines. And they must be "copied", starting with geology, ore mining, turning it into the right metal and its processing. But there are no such printers yet. hi
      1. Bobrick
        Bobrick April 15 2020 12: 10 New
        +1
        25 hours ?! Can not be. This is the resource of a cruise missile engine or unmanned target.
        Maybe all the same a couple of hundred hours?
        1. Boratsagdiev
          Boratsagdiev April 15 2020 12: 44 New
          0
          He remembered the German, during the Second World War. Which was enough for several flights.
          At least an order of magnitude need to increase the numbers.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo April 15 2020 22: 14 New
            0
            Quote: BoratSagdiev
            He remembered the German, during the Second World War. Which was enough for several flights.
            At least an order of magnitude need to increase the numbers.

            Soviet, you wanted to say. How many M-107 worked there?
        2. Errr
          Errr April 15 2020 13: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Bobrick
          25 hours ?! Can not be. This is the resource of a cruise missile engine or unmanned target.
          Maybe all the same a couple of hundred hours?
          Nothing personal, just a little bit of an Aglitz wiki for "Shenyang WS-10":
          In 2010, it was reported that reliability was also poor; the WS-10A lasted only 30 hours, while the AL-31 needed refurbishing after 400 hours.
          This is translated into native Racean means:
          In 2010, it was reported that reliability was also low; The WS-10A lasted only 30 hours, while the AL-31 required repairs after 400 hours.
          At the same time there is also a reference to the "The Washington Post" confirming the aforementioned sad fact:
          An engine China made for its Su-27 knock-off would routinely conk out after 30 hours whereas the Russian engines would need refurbishing after 400 (usually they would fail after 30 hours while Russian engines would need repairs after 400), Russian and Chinese experts said.
          https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/24/AR2010122403009.html
          Only now this article in the newspaper was published on December 25, 2010. Much water has flown under the bridge since that time. Maybe this information is no longer true, and the Chinese have made significant progress over this time ... winked
          1. Bobrick
            Bobrick April 15 2020 13: 32 New
            0
            According to AL-31, the same Wikipedia gives out 1500 hours (apparently complete, not overhaul). So 30 hours can be an overhaul period, and a full resource can turn out to be 100 with something hours.
            1. Errr
              Errr April 15 2020 13: 36 New
              +1
              Well, if you don’t attract reality by Wishlist lol , then in this case it is necessary to compare exactly 30 hours with exactly 400 hours and nothing else. smile
              1. Bobrick
                Bobrick April 15 2020 13: 46 New
                0
                This is the Western media, they can write about the execution from a mortar of corrupt officials in China.

                When tested at maximum speed, both our and Western engines will give out 10 hours in the best of the best cases, in case of flight on one engine, for example (for AL-31F it is from 5 to 15 hours, according to the same Wikipedia).
                1. Errr
                  Errr April 15 2020 15: 09 New
                  +1
                  AL-31F at first also did not really shine with a resource. It all started with a resource of just 50 hours.
                  Not even an article was found, but simply a message to the address https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2003/12/09/67193.html, where everything is intelligently explained by the chief designer of the MMPP Salyut, Emanuel Izrailevich Goldinsky. Read. I like it.
        3. venik
          venik April 15 2020 13: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: Bobrick
          25 hours ?! Maybe all the same a couple of hundred hours?

          =======
          What are you surprised at? Our TV3-117 originally also had a resource of less than 50 hours! It was only then that his resource was brought to several hundred hours, and by the beginning of 2000 to 7.5 thousand! But this required more than one decade!
          1. Bobrick
            Bobrick April 15 2020 14: 04 New
            +1
            Just for engines of early development (until the 70s), such terms were due to inaccurate calculations for long-term strength (calculations for long-term bearing strength are still purely statistical, for example, there are also shafts, disks, vanes and much more).
            For AM-3, for example, in a couple of years, the assigned resource was increased from 175 hours (on the first production samples) to 400, even without changing the design, but this requires operating data.
            I don’t think that the Chinese are dumber than us, and they should make a serial sample with a resource of 100-200 hours in 10 years of operation.

            Yes, and the jurisdiction is to do engines that do not suit customers very much (especially the military). They can blame sabotage and treason.
      2. Bobrick
        Bobrick April 15 2020 13: 12 New
        +1
        And as for copying, do not worry. Recently, Chinese students began to take on specialties of Russian universities "designing aircraft and rocket engines".
        Yes, and the technology of ground-based gas generators tend to buy (they really master it with great difficulty).
        So, the process is underway and with a great desire (and it seems to be there, also financially supported) in 10-20 years they will be able to grow their engineering school of aircraft engines, and then give out world-class engines.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 15 2020 14: 30 New
        0
        "With an engine resource of 25-40 hours, who can it" strain "?" ////
        -----
        This is a very outdated figure relating to the first Chinese engines
        They have greatly tightened production since then.
        Roughly speaking: the Chinese resource is 1/2 of the Russian and 1/4 of the American.
    3. mvg
      mvg April 15 2020 22: 27 New
      +2
      Americans will have to strain

      The Americans have 135-150 a year, there will be even more. Why tear your ass?
  4. sanik2020
    sanik2020 April 15 2020 11: 35 New
    +2
    5th generation Chinese fighter dependent on Russian engine

    Even if the SU-57 does not have a second-stage engine, then for a long time the Chinese fighter will still be dependent, unless of course they themselves come up with.
  5. Assyrian
    Assyrian April 15 2020 11: 36 New
    +1
    As for the invisibility of a heavy fighter, here the Chinese plane even surpasses similar American cars.

    laughing Let the Chinese comrades open their eyes wider, so you can call him invisible. laughing
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 15 2020 11: 41 New
    +5
    PR, PR, around PR ...
    "Our fighter is the best, though there is no engine."
    We are waiting for deliveries from Russia ...
  7. Ingenegr
    Ingenegr April 15 2020 11: 47 New
    +6
    A new aerodynamic scheme was invented in the article - "duck wing". It is clear that "the Chukchi is not a reader, but a writer" - but not to the same extent!
    The author of the article for educational program will list the existing schemes of LA monoplanes:
    1. Normal
    2. Duck
    3. Tailless
    4. Flying wing - "tailless", not having a pronounced fuselage.
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty April 15 2020 11: 48 New
    +1
    "5th generation Chinese fighter" - and how much Chinese is there in general? The usual copy of more advanced aircraft, and even without an engine! ! You can build twenty a month, but this copy will never surpass the originals!
  9. aleks26
    aleks26 April 15 2020 12: 04 New
    0
    By the power of weapons and the quality of the radar system, according to Sohu, the J-20 is quite comparable to the American F-22 fighter

    And what are they bragging about? F22 - units were formed and entered the database in 2005. It's been 15 !!! years. In the aircraft industry a huge time. And the Chinese only approached the performance characteristics of F22. And already cheeks are pouting.
    1. Trickster
      Trickster April 15 2020 13: 24 New
      0
      Quote: aleks26
      And the Chinese only approached the performance characteristics of F22

      So f-22 costs fabulous money and its production is already closed. At the moment, these are the most advanced fighters in the world. True, in terms of price-quality ratio, the Su-35 is much ahead, and the Chinese stealth is almost a complete match for the Su-35. So if the Chinese can offer the best price, then the dry will have to speed up on the su-57.
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal April 15 2020 19: 27 New
        0
        For the US military budget, it was possible to build 190 of these aircraft. A similar number of 57s will not be at least until the middle of the century ... It’s good to be rich and healthy fellow
  10. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront April 15 2020 12: 05 New
    -3
    Pleased with the Chinese comrades.
  11. Old partisan
    Old partisan April 15 2020 12: 14 New
    -1
    Someone went to my ears here that the Chinese have all their own. Oh well.
    I would be extremely surprised if this plane did not have a glider designed for us and it was sold to it cheaply by our effective managers. Engines do not suit them well.
  12. svp67
    svp67 April 15 2020 12: 30 New
    0
    In the future, the manufacturing company plans to produce at least 40 J-20 aircraft per year.

    Well, yes, yes ...
  13. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek April 15 2020 12: 42 New
    -1
    The brains would not be dried .. they would conclude a contract of pieces for 200-300 Al41 ...., and there, you see, they bought a license.
    This will allow the release rate to increase finished aircraft. And give time to create your own turbojet engine.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ April 15 2020 15: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      would contract pieces for

      concluded.
      The first deliveries were in 2019.
      but it is a secret.
      yes, it’s also misinformation ....
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 15 2020 18: 04 New
        0
        Those that are together with the Su35C?
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ April 16 2020 11: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Those that are together with the Su35C?

          under the ROE agreement .... but what is there in the agreement .... I do not know.
    2. mvg
      mvg April 15 2020 22: 36 New
      +1
      The Chinese already have WS-15A, TTX is not worse, they will finalize the resource and tyut. Already put on the J-20. In development the new WS-18 ... what for goat button accordion? The latest versions of WS-10D have comparable power and resource with AL-31F1. Worse than that of GE or the French, but not much worse than the Russian Federation. Given the whole science campus with the Research Institute of Materials, we will soon catch up
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek April 15 2020 23: 24 New
        0
        I do not argue with this, who wants and invests money ... he will catch up.
  14. Boratsagdiev
    Boratsagdiev April 15 2020 12: 46 New
    0
    At the same time, according to the Chinese publication, the design of the “duck wing” does not affect the stealth of the aircraft

    Everything is so ... according to Chinese mythology.
    That's all fools.
  15. Ru_Na
    Ru_Na April 15 2020 13: 03 New
    0
    The engine is so easy not to copy and not print on a 3D printer! These are, years, decades of purposeful, painstaking work, this is our own scientific and technical base, well-established production, skilled workers! The PRC does not have this, hence the purchase, copying of technologies!
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 15 2020 14: 34 New
      0
      The only problem is the material and method of processing and production of the blades.
      Which affects the resource.
      The remaining tricks split for a long time.
      But the Chinese have specialists and well-established production.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft April 15 2020 17: 11 New
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The only problem is the material and method of processing and production of the blades.
        Which affects the resource.

        So this is the most important thing ... otherwise Israeli Jews would have had their prototypes F-15 and F35 for a long time ....
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 15 2020 18: 19 New
          0
          Israel would just buy a ready-made engine, if necessary.
          As the Swedes did with Gripen (engine from F-18).
          And our Lavi had an American engine.
          Designing and assembling a fighter only for its Air Force is disadvantageous.
          Need a sales market. And he is very tight.
          Therefore, Israel began to specialize in the production of avionics:
          radars, sights, sensors, computers and weapons for aviation.
          And succeeded in that.
  16. Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 15 2020 14: 48 New
    0
    And why should the Chinese wait for our engine, let them make their own, so let's see what their aircraft industry is good for. And then Sukhu already choked with saliva, praising everything Chinese.
  17. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat April 15 2020 15: 42 New
    +2
    It seems that this is a translation of an article from National Interest, where an article from Sohu was translated.
  18. Stalllker
    Stalllker April 15 2020 15: 48 New
    -2
    Well, what then is the "Chinese fighter" ?!))))
  19. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft April 15 2020 17: 08 New
    0
    5th generation Chinese fighter dependent on Russian engine

    Ka and 4 ++ generation fighters fellow
  20. calm
    calm April 15 2020 19: 06 New
    +1
    there is no duck wing design, there is an aerodynamic duck design. The J-20 has two big minuses:
    - in the case of a "duck" with a large longitudinal spacing of the central passive wing relative to the wing and the presence of dorsal ridges, the secrecy in the radar range is deteriorated (Stealth technology);
    - the long fuselage increases the spacing of the masses and worsens the longitudinal and track stability.
  21. bars1
    bars1 April 15 2020 21: 08 New
    +1
    In addition to weak engines, the LTX J-20 is adversely affected by unregulated air intakes. The F-22's air intakes are also unregulated, but God forbid everyone has engine thrust there. So no match for the J-20 to the American, oh no match!
  22. mvg
    mvg April 15 2020 22: 24 New
    +2
    has an insignificant resource of 25-40 hours compared with the required 400-800 hours.

    This is clearly not your profession, Leah. You have a talent for writing about anything, incompetence in all areas. Mae bi romance novels or fantasy? Nothing personal.
  23. Nitarius
    Nitarius April 16 2020 05: 48 New
    0
    exchange must be equivalent! or technology to technology or goods to goods! meaning in another not! technology is not who you will not sell))
  24. Mentat
    Mentat April 16 2020 12: 07 New
    0
    Quote: aleks26
    And the Chinese only approached the performance characteristics of F22.

    Where does this conclusion come from? The characteristics of the Chinese miracle plane are classified, not a single video demonstrating “high maneuvering capabilities” exists.
    Does this aircraft in general correspond to some characteristics of the 5th generation, it is not known to anyone except the Chinese.