Military Review

In Ukraine, found "arguments" against Marshal Zhukov

129

In Ukraine, the demolition of monuments to Soviet commanders continues. Apparently, the next in line will be the monuments to George Zhukov. Now Marshal Zhukov is diligently trying to denigrate the Ukrainian press, preparing public opinion for the likely declaration of the marshal as a criminal.


An article by Alexander Levchenko in the Ukrainian edition of the Observer is devoted to criticism of the most famous and revered Soviet Marshal of the Great Patriotic War. According to the author, George Zhukov was by no means a brilliant commander, as he was represented by Soviet propaganda. The Marshal, as the Ukrainian author assures, bears personal responsibility for the unpreparedness of the Red Army for war, since since January 1941 he held the post of chief of the General Staff of the Red Army.

The first thing that the Ukrainian publication accuses Zhukov of is the capture of a total of 4 million Soviet troops who were surrounded in the Kiev-Uman, Bryansk-Vyazemsky, Vitebsk-Mogilev-Gomel boilers, near Grodno, Minsk, Chernigov and Mariupol. Levchenko recalls that due to the actions of Zhukov, more than 1,5 million Ukrainians were captured in German. Allegedly, Zhukov “personally sent to death” the mobilized inhabitants of the Ukrainian SSR and ordered not to spare the soldiers of the four Ukrainian fronts.

Further more. Levchenko calls Ukraine’s loss of life the highest in World War II after China, voicing the figure of 9 million dead. In principle, given the geographical location of Ukraine and the fact that the Germans had already been stopped on the Volga, this is not surprising.

But Levchenko, firstly, considers Ukraine’s loss of life in isolation from the entire Soviet Union, although the Ukrainian SSR at that time was an integral part of the Soviet state, and secondly, it forgets that not all the victims were Ukrainians. For example, Ukrainian nationalists took the most important part in the extermination of the very large Jewish population of cities and towns of the Ukrainian SSR. The situation was exactly the same with the genocide of the Polish population in Western Ukraine.

Apparently, considering the arguments about Zhukov's guilt in the loss of life of the Red Army not convincing, the author at the end of the article goes on to yet another "facts" that supposedly should debunk the Soviet marshal. Levchenko writes that during searches at Zhukov’s apartment, when the commander fell into disgrace, furs, jewelry, expensive fabrics and paintings were found. All this, according to the author, was stolen in Germany, while the rest of the population of the Soviet Union was starving.

The last passage is generally very strange. What, according to Levchenko, could the Soviet population be fed with paintings brought from Germany? Or, wrapped in several fur coats brought by the Soviet military leader, would the whole country have been saved from hunger? Trophies at that time were carried by everyone - both generals and rank-and-file. But what does this have to do with the commander’s talent of George Zhukov, his merits or lack of merit?

Yes, Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov, like any other military commander during the years of World War II, made mistakes. As a result of the mistakes, soldiers and officers died, but this is a war. Other generals, and all the countries participating in the Second World War, acted in exactly the same way. Yes, Zhukov was a difficult person in personal communication, many veterans of the Second World War loved much more the other famous marshal - Konstantin Konstantinovich Rokossovsky, who was intelligent and respected the personnel.

But the presence of errors, and rudeness or rigidity in personal communication, and, especially, some fur coats or dishes brought from Germany, do not give us the right to deny the huge contribution of Marshal Zhukov to the victory in the Great Patriotic War.

As for the Ukrainian edition, the whole point of the article, the purpose of its writing becomes clear after reading this thesis:

Does such a warlord need a monument in Ukraine, where he personally sent to death 1,5 million mobilized Ukrainians who survived the heavy German occupation and liberated their land at the cost of their own enormous human losses?
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  1. Doccor18
    Doccor18 April 13 2020 11: 04 New
    25
    It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 13 2020 11: 11 New
      11
      Quote: Doccor18
      It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.

      So they are FOUNDING them that Putin, Stalin, Zhukov are to blame for everything ...
      By the way, there are such data on population losses in the Union republics.
      1. vvvjak
        vvvjak April 13 2020 11: 22 New
        +8
        Quote: svp67
        So they are FOUNDING them that Putin, Stalin, Zhukov are to blame for everything ...

        And take and invoice Ukraine for compensation for damage to the national economy of the USSR from the actions of N.S. Khrushchev. And Georgia for the Stalinist repression. It is interesting that they will say so.
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 13 2020 11: 23 New
          +8
          Quote: vvvjak
          It is interesting that they will say so.

          Nothing, they won’t say anything.
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee April 13 2020 11: 42 New
            12
            Quote: svp67
            they will not say anything.

            Under Zhukov, where were their languages? But to fight the monument is not scary!
            1. stalki
              stalki April 13 2020 13: 10 New
              +5
              Under Zhukov, where were their languages? But to fight the monument is not scary!
              Napoleon didn’t slander something and didn’t touch the monuments, but he had more mistakes.
            2. Vasyan1971
              Vasyan1971 April 13 2020 13: 21 New
              11
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              But to fight the monument is not scary!

            3. Mastodon
              Mastodon April 13 2020 15: 31 New
              +3
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              Quote: svp67
              they will not say anything.

              Under Zhukov, where were their languages? But to fight the monument is not scary!

              They provoke us .. Well, nothing is written and memorized! They will have to answer for this
              1. Svarog51
                Svarog51 April 13 2020 19: 45 New
                +2
                Hi! hi So everything will be fine. wink
                1. Mastodon
                  Mastodon April 13 2020 19: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog51
                  Hi! hi So everything will be fine. wink

                  And where are we going to get to Sergei, such a fate! Hi ... hi
                  1. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 April 13 2020 19: 59 New
                    +2
                    As I saw you, I immediately perked up. Once alive, then we will win. Health, buddy, to you and your all. good drinks
            4. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine April 13 2020 21: 26 New
              +2
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              But to fight the monument is not scary!

              That's for sure, this is a monument erected in Odessa.
        2. Avior
          Avior April 13 2020 11: 45 New
          -1
          there is a little problem smile

          Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev was born in 1894 in the village of Kalinovka in the Olkhov volost of the Dmitrievsky district of the Kursk province (currently the Khomutovsky district of the Kursk region) in the family of miner Sergei Nikanorovich Khrushchev (d. 1938) and Ksenia Ivanovna Khrushcheva (1872-1945). There was also a younger sister, Irina [5]. In his memoirs, Khrushchev emphasized that he was an ethnic Russian by origin.
          1. orionvitt
            orionvitt April 13 2020 13: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Avior
            In his memoirs, Khrushchev emphasized that he was an ethnic Russian by origin.

            But by conviction, a true Ukrainian.
        3. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A April 13 2020 16: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: vvvjak
          And take and invoice Ukraine for compensation for damage to the national economy of the USSR from the actions of N.S. Khrushchev.

          And for the Caribbean crisis, how will Ukraine report to the new owners?
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 April 13 2020 19: 49 New
            +3
            All misunderstandings will be blamed on Pliev, not in the first one.
            Igor hi
      2. demo
        demo April 13 2020 12: 55 New
        +3
        There was no Russia during the USSR period.
        It was the RSFSR.
        And Armenia and Ukraine were not.
        There were Armenian and Ukrainian SSR.
      3. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 13 2020 14: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: Ilya Polonsky
        Ukraine’s casualties are highest in World War II after China, voicing the figure of 9 million dead. In principle, given the geographical location of Ukraine and the fact that the Germans were already stopped on the Volga, There is nothing surprising
        Why repeat and carry to BO Banderish rash propaganda and not see anything surprising in it. Socialism is accounting and control. In the book of the military historian Mikhail Filimoshin, for whom the loss of life in the armed forces of the USSR is the main theme, the figure is given: losses of Ukrainians from the Red Army - 1 (377.4% of total losses). But this is INCLUDING prisoners and deserters, incl. those who then went to serve in the Schutzmannschaft, the SS Galicia division, etc. (Even in the notorious Russian! Regiment "Desna" one battalion was formed entirely from Ukrainians, one of the three battalions, as far as I remember, was a training in it). Bandera further can plank millions of billions of dollars as much as they like. In Soviet times, the figure for the total losses of the Ukrainian SSR was called - 6 million. We can assume the composition of the population loss: 2 mln. Jews of the Ukrainian SSR; 2 million Ukrainians on the conscience of the Bandera-fascists (those still) - there is a correlation - not all Jews were taken to Polish death camps, the death camp was in Ukraine and its own - Yanovka, as well as Babi Yary, etc .; Donbass, Slobozhanshchina and Chernihivshchina actively partisaned, which was accompanied not only by the losses of fighters unaccounted for in the statistics of the spacecraft, but also by the genocide of the civilian population by the European invaders; many people were driven to Germany to work and did not return; from the west of Ukraine, those who left were mostly voluntary; and other losses from war conditions. Only 6 million. Well, you agree that nine. And do not forget that these three million human souls Bandera-fascist propagandists steal from us, from those who honestly fought with the Nazi and Bandera fascists.
      4. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 13 2020 15: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        By the way, there are such data on population losses in the Union republics.

        Regarding the lies of the author of this picture, Erlikhman, there is a wonderful commentary: "History and propaganda. Infographics about the Great Patriotic War from our enemies."- https://nethistory.su/blog/43553768041/Istoriya-i-propaganda.-Infografika-o-Velikoy-otechestvennoy-voyn
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 13 2020 16: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          Regarding the lies of the author of this picture, Erlikhman, there is a wonderful commentary: "History and propaganda. Infographics about the Great Patriotic War from our enemies." - https://nethistory.su/blog/43553768041/Istoriya-i-propaganda.-Infografika-o-Velikoy-otechestvennoy-voyn

          You cannot reject a lie by a lie ... The author of the work you have proposed or does not know how to work with documents and does not know arithmetic or a provocateur who believes that others cannot do this
          Here is his statement:
          The fact is that the number of dead Soviet soldiers, partisans and underground It has long been counted and confirmed by documents and demographic calculations - this is 8,6 million people (including those who died in captivity, died from wounds and are missing).
          - lying.
          There is a statistical compilation of the GRIF SECRETARY RELEASED there are given the losses of the Red Army, the Border Guard of the NKVD and the NKVD troops - and this is 8668,4 people, no partisans and underground people are talking about these losses, with the exception of the NKVD military personnel ... These losses did not include those liable for military service, called up for mobilization in the first days of the war, and missing (captured by the enemy) before arriving at military units (500 thousand people).
          The losses of the militia divisions (928 irretrievable losses), as well as the losses of the underground and partisans (the number is not clear, since the number 200 includes all, including partisans and underground, and NKVD sabotage groups, and soldiers of the Red Army who were surrounded and escaped from captivity) and if you calculate what is indicated in informographics, it turns out that the losses amount to 492 million people. Considering everything that I said above is a very real figure.
          By the way, the loss of civilian population in inormography is indicated as 15 million people
          Total total losses amount to 26 million people, which is even less than the figure now called by our official bodies - more than 800 million
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. April 13 2020 17: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            You cannot reject a lie by a lie ... The author of the work you have proposed or does not know how to work with documents and does not know arithmetic or a provocateur who believes that others cannot do this
            Even the drowsiness takes from cognitive dissonance. You published THIS from Erlichmann and now teach a person how to Erlichmann to criticize. Yes, everything is counted. Yes, something the guy neglected or formulated inaccurately. In the partisans and underground there were many army encircles - the dead were included in the statistics of the losses of the Red Army. But my grandfather and father would not have been hit if they had died, would have been listed in civilian casualties. But the article is not about loss categories. The guy uses real numbers and convicts Erlikhman (for whom you subscribed by publishing his statistics) in a lie in a short message (the format allows some omissions). And you are trying to distort.
            The NKVD lost 170 thousand. Here is the table also of the profile din of Korukov, it also has 500 thousand. at the beginning of the war, etc. (Do not forget only from Korukov from the list of irretrievable military losses to subtract 1 returning from captivity):

            Quote: svp67
            figures now called by our official bodies - in more than 28 million
            I ask for a detailed link about your official authorities, who exactly and where, when did you name this figure. And then at the hearings in the Duma, a quite status person called a large figure, but could not confirm it. There at least it was clear why - funding was required.
            For losses, try to read the Military Review more attentively. Here is an article by Viktor Nikolaevich Zemskov, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Chief Researcher of the Institute of Russian History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, historian of the Second World War, "On the scale of human losses of the CCCR in the Great Patriotic War" - https://topwar.ru/91488-o-masshtabah-lyudskih-poter -cccr-v-velikoy-otechestvennoy-voyne.html
            1. svp67
              svp67 April 13 2020 18: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: Nikolai S.
              Viktor Nikolaevich Zemskov "On the scale of human losses of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War"

              I read and do not agree with him CATEGORically.
              He gives numbers that ...
              in fact, direct casualties amounted to about 16 million people, of which 11,5 million were military and 4,5 million were civilian.


              If I don’t argue with the military, it is quite possible that they were, I have already given an option above how it could be ...
              But civilians, just 4? You will forgive me, only in Leningrad and the Leningrad region died within 500, a lot of civilians died during the Battle of Stalingrad, Jews were killed in the ghetto about 000 ...
              Taking into account that the "iron roller" of the war rolled through the most densely populated part of the country twice, the figure of 4 looks derisive.
              1. Nicholas C.
                Nicholas C. April 13 2020 20: 35 New
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                These losses did not include those liable for military service, called up for mobilization in the first days of the war, and who went missing (captured by the enemy) before arriving at military units (500 thousand people).
                As if someone did not want to enroll 500 thousand. among the dead or captured, the fate of these 500 thousand is unknown. Korukov writes neatly: unlisted troops. Someone may have been killed or captured on the way to the unit, but I’m sure that the majority in the mess of the first days of the war simply couldn’t arrive at their destinations due to the rapidly changing situation and was called up again (it’s better to call in new than You will be presented with an article). Korukov counted them in losses. And if this is not a loss, then not 9.6 million, but 9.1 million. In this figure are those deserters and prisoners who then began to serve Hitler (Bandera, the Baltic states, etc.) The paradox is that the more traitors are counted, the more effective it is that the Red Army fought (it suffered fewer losses, it killed more enemies) . Yes, and civil losses remain more: 4.5 million. or almost 7 - there is a difference. This is about the truth and the likeness of truth. This is if according to Zemskov it is considered, and not according to Yakovlev, an associate of Gorbachev in the Politburo.
    2. Pardus
      Pardus April 13 2020 11: 52 New
      16
      Quote: Doccor18
      It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.

      They have only one argument, Moscow is to blame with its "imperial ambitions"
      Bandera can no longer find any arguments, since they simply do not exist.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 13 2020 17: 49 New
        0
        Quote: Pardus
        They have only one argument, Moscow is to blame with its "imperial ambitions"
        Bandera can no longer find any arguments, since they simply do not exist.

        Until 1917, we were a "triune people", after the formation of the USSR we already became fraternal peoples, and after 1991 neither one nor the other.
    3. NF68
      NF68 April 13 2020 16: 08 New
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.


      The answer will be something like this: the damned Muscovites are to blame. And even though the count on their head is comic. Nothing will dissuade them.
    4. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 13 2020 21: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.

      Until 1918 there was a triune people, after the formation of the USSR there were already fraternal peoples, and after 1991 they already became "independent".
    5. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek April 14 2020 03: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: Doccor18
      It would be better to find arguments on the question of why the Urainsky SSR in all economic indicators is 20 times ahead of modern Ukraine.

      because it hung on the neck of the RSFSR !! wink they will never accept such an answer !!! wassat laughing
  2. knn54
    knn54 April 13 2020 11: 05 New
    +4
    "A feather is not terrible in a gander."
  3. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 April 13 2020 11: 09 New
    +7
    The Marshal, as the Ukrainian author assures, bears personal responsibility for the unpreparedness of the Red Army for war, since since January 1941 he held the post of chief of the General Staff of the Red Army.

    And who, then, is personally responsible for the "successes" of the best army in Europe?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 13 2020 21: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Vasyan1971
      And who, then, is personally responsible for the "successes" of the best army in Europe?

      Oops! Well, on this occasion, the Ukrainians themselves have a saying "getting rich with a thought."
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 April 13 2020 22: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        on this occasion, the Ukrainians themselves have a saying "getting rich with a thought."

        Only wealth is something not to be seen.
        So with liquefied molecules of freedom, according to rumors, something does not grow together ...
        https://www.pravda.ru/news/world/1488123-amerikanskij_gaz/
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 13 2020 22: 23 New
          -1
          Quote: Vasyan1971
          Only wealth is something not to be seen.

          But fools never had wealth.
          1. Vasyan1971
            Vasyan1971 April 13 2020 23: 57 New
            0
            Quote: tihonmarine
            But fools never had wealth.

            It seems that it will not ... request
  4. regdan
    regdan April 13 2020 11: 13 New
    +1
    They will demolish and rejoice in this wangyu
    1. Pardus
      Pardus April 13 2020 11: 52 New
      12
      There’s nothing to vang. The current Kiev authorities on May 9 as a bone in the throat. Moreover, precedents already exist and were.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 13 2020 21: 57 New
      -1
      Quote: regdan
      They will demolish and rejoice in this wangyu

      Well, then they will demolish their monuments, Chernyakhovsky, Kozhedub, Rybalko, but who will they put it to? Well, Simone Petliura, who sold the Poles to Western Ukraine. But even Skoropadsky, Grushevsky and Vinnitsa, well, about the premiere of ZUNR Sidor Golubovich, no one will erect a monument in Ukraine.
  5. novel66
    novel66 April 13 2020 11: 15 New
    -14
    write correctly ... 41st entirely on his conscience, and even if Sychevka recall .. THE BUTCHER !!!
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 13 2020 11: 34 New
      +6
      Quote: novel xnumx
      41st entirely on his conscience

      Entirely ??? And he signed all the documents? There was also the signature of the NGO Marshal Tymoshenko, and he was from Ukraine. And there is a monument in his native village, but what about him?
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 13 2020 11: 35 New
        -1
        Yes, the same garbage, a scoop with a masherochka ... Tymoshenko isn’t so inflated ... especially after the death of Stalin
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 April 13 2020 12: 23 New
          +4
          Quote: novel xnumx
          Tymoshenko is not so inflated

          hi Hello to the best Air Force gunsmith!
          laughing Are you from extreme to extreme again?
          1. novel66
            novel66 April 13 2020 12: 30 New
            +3
            I am in my position. ours to you! hi
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 April 13 2020 12: 43 New
              +5
              laughing and move your brains? I myself am not a fan of Zhukov, but the truth is more expensive!
              1. novel66
                novel66 April 13 2020 13: 01 New
                +1
                and read the books that I sent you? or the phrase "marshal of victory" obscures the mind?
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 April 13 2020 13: 09 New
                  +5
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  and read books, what did I send you?

                  the books are mostly written by committed comrades, I believe in documents more! The truth is that the "merit" of Zhukov and Timoshenko in the tragedy of the summer of 41 is greatly exaggerated! Above them stood your favorite who did not trust anyone wink
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  is the phrase "marshal of victory" obscured by the mind?

                  I told you that I am not a fan of Zhukov, like many sailors!
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 April 13 2020 13: 10 New
                    +2
                    Well, thank God! let's agree on this .... drinks
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 April 13 2020 19: 55 New
                      +3
                      The breeder is obliged not to allow the "convergence" of the sentries. In a pandemic, the measures will be more severe. wink drinks
                      1. novel66
                        novel66 April 13 2020 20: 26 New
                        +3
                        and we are not sentries, but sidekicks, just like you! drinks
                      2. Svarog51
                        Svarog51 April 13 2020 20: 38 New
                        +4
                        Turned out! Well, you and the bug! drinks
                        Happy Aviation and Cosmonautics Day, buddy. drinks
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 13 2020 22: 00 New
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Entirely ??? And he signed all the documents?

      "The act of unconditional surrender of Hitlerite Germany" was signed by G.K. ZHUKOV. There shouldn't be any questions !!!
  6. Terenin
    Terenin April 13 2020 12: 27 New
    +4
    Quote: novel xnumx
    write correctly ... 41st entirely on his conscience, and even if Sychevka recall .. THE BUTCHER !!!

    Roma hi I understand that Suvorov writes "interestingly", but his Zhukov and Sychevka are today's weapons in the hands of the enemies of Russia, and in a fight it is unprofessional to grab a weapon, you can get a "kick in the groin" winked
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 13 2020 12: 33 New
      +2
      Gene, how much did he put there ??? on Suvorov on me .. you understand, but there is a three-volume "military history of the fatherland" not Rezun wrote .. hello, buddy! hi
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        Gene, how much did he put there ??? on Suvorov on me .. you understand, but there is a three-volume "military history of the fatherland" not Rezun wrote .. hello, buddy!

        Listen to Alexei Isaev. what he says about Zhukov, and about Konev, and about Rokossovsky ... Then you will think, maybe about "Sychevka" ...
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 13 2020 13: 05 New
          0
          and you read at least Kozinkin, a person writes on the basis of archival data, and not Rezun even once, let me remind you - the great glory of Zhukov only after the death of Stalin - before that he had a good life
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 07 New
            +3
            Quote: novel xnumx
            and you read at least Kozinkin, a person writes on the basis of archival data, and not Rezun even once, let me remind you - the great glory of Zhukov only after the death of Stalin - before that he had a good life

            Not Rezun, but Resunoid, as they say.
            First, you will compare the losses that were under the command of Zhukov and the rest of the marshals, in percentage terms - maybe you will understand something and become, and about "terms" and about everything else ...
  7. Albert1988
    Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: novel xnumx
    and even if Sychevka remember .. THE BUTCHER !!!

    And here the adherents of Vladimir Rezun pulled themselves up ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 13 2020 13: 03 New
      +2
      and to rise above is not fate ?? to learn a little history? What is the reason for this?
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: novel xnumx
        and to rise above is not fate ?? to learn a little history? What is the reason for this?

        And despite the fact that "Responsibility for the negligence of the army blah-blah-blah, Sychevka is ball-blah-blah .." - this is all he is dear, rezun)))) He cannot impute anything to Zhukov, because he does not know the documents and information does not dispose, I advise you - read Isaev, listen, just go up higher and learn a little history)))) hi
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 13 2020 13: 07 New
          -1
          at least one argument .. \ let me answer myself the same and not answer anything hi learn history not from textbooks
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 08 New
            +2
            Quote: novel xnumx
            at least one argument .. \ let me answer myself the same and not answer anything teach history not from textbooks

            And there’s nothing for you to answer, because apart from Rezunovschina, there’s nothing - I answered clearly - Listen to Isaev - he gives a bunch of arguments, the analysis does not separate in a vacuum, but in comparison with other, and not only top-level Russian commanders ...
            1. novel66
              novel66 April 13 2020 13: 09 New
              +1
              Kozinkina read ..
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 15 New
                +2
                Quote: novel xnumx
                Kozinkina read ..

                And what does your Kozinkin write about Comrade Efremov, whom the "bloody bloody" Zhukov "spread rot" on what the light is? Doesn't he write that Efremov, as a general, with incredible personal courage, did not shine with general qualities? How Efremov, not Zhukov, first exposed the German tank formations, and even from both sides, the 10th volunteer division "Proletarka", which was the most combat-ready among the volunteer units, and armed with the ball better than many combat units, no, he does not write ? Or maybe he also writes about how, having received an order from Zhukov to take Naro-Fominsk, General Efremov began to stupidly break into the city itself, while the Germans, having fortified the city, had weak positions around him and the city could be surrounded, forcing the Germans retreat from it? But this is the "crrrrvvvvy" Zhukov to blame, he must personally, as a "super brain" command each platoon, as in a computer strategy ...
                1. Terenin
                  Terenin April 13 2020 14: 38 New
                  +5
                  Today already on "Russia 1" they advertise another Russophobic film about some Zuleikha with eyes ... played by Khamatova, who already declares that it was a gulag ... death camps fool , i.e. He doesn’t understand how he puts them on a par with the Nazi concentration camps ... according to a clear plan and direction of Western Russophobes ... and this is on the eve of Victory.
                  Further, their logic is clear to the minds of the "doubters":
                  a) Stalin and Hitler are one and the same;
                  b) the USSR and Germany are both aggressors;
                  c) Since Germany was defeated, which means it was "zeroed" as an aggressor, then Russia remains, as a law enforcement agent of the USSR, which means it must be destroyed ...
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 April 13 2020 22: 43 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Terenin
                    plays Khamatova who already claims that the Gulag were ... death camps

                    Khamatova may be a good actress, but her brains are like a chicken, and there is a corresponding amount of knowledge in these brains, but fashionable "entellagent" nonsense, about "gulag-death-camp-Stalin-genocide-Russian-people-ko-ko -ko "picked up in full ...
                    1. Terenin
                      Terenin April 13 2020 23: 14 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Albert1988
                      Quote: Terenin
                      plays Khamatova who already claims that the Gulag were ... death camps

                      Khamatova may be a good actress, but her brains are like a chicken, and there is a corresponding amount of knowledge in these brains, but fashionable "entellagent" nonsense, about "gulag-death-camp-Stalin-genocide-Russian-people-ko-ko -ko "picked up in full ...

                      Eugene, said well hi
                    2. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 April 14 2020 13: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Terenin
                      Eugene, said well

                      Thank you, I said that I think!
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 13 2020 17: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: novel xnumx
    and if Sychevka and remember

    Have you forgotten about these "angels"?

    And weren't there butchers in Detachment 731 either?
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 13 2020 18: 06 New
      +3
      and they erect monuments?
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 April 13 2020 20: 13 New
        +5
        Roma hi You have a phenomenal ability to poke a stick at an ant hill.
        I also like Rokossovsky more as a person. But I’m thinking, if not for Zhukov’s “draconian” measures, Moscow would have resisted? Now no one will give a definite answer. There are no direct participants, but speculation ... request
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 13 2020 20: 25 New
          +3
          Yes Yes. at first to miscalculate everything, and then draconian measures ... strategist. to eat
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 April 13 2020 20: 34 New
            +5
            I was not there - I will not judge. Not entitled.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 13 2020 21: 06 New
        0
        Quote: novel xnumx
        and they erect monuments?

        They don’t put them, but they put others.
        1. novel66
          novel66 April 13 2020 22: 02 New
          +4
          they put others.

          not me!!
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine April 13 2020 22: 22 New
            0
            Quote: novel xnumx
            not me!!

            Thank you.
  • nobody111body
    nobody111body April 13 2020 11: 18 New
    +2
    and against the "man" Truman Harry, who dropped two atomic bombs on the heads of Japanese children in Hiroshima, are there no arguments? it's a pity - it seems like this same truman was the beacon of us democracy
    1. Alex_You
      Alex_You April 13 2020 11: 24 New
      +4
      We will be honest, in Ukraine there are not so many monuments to Truman.
      1. novel66
        novel66 April 13 2020 11: 39 New
        +5
        not yet evening..
      2. Avior
        Avior April 13 2020 12: 02 New
        0
        in Greece there
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir April 13 2020 11: 21 New
    0
    What about the monument to Zhukov on Red Square?
    1. novel66
      novel66 April 13 2020 11: 40 New
      +1
      painted red knee-deep and returned
  • Altona
    Altona April 13 2020 11: 25 New
    +5
    Among the Ukrainians there were a lot of collaborators, without detracting from the exploits of Sidor Kovpak and other heroes. Kicking Zhukov, they are trying to remove part of the guilt from themselves. This is exactly the same passage as the Czechs recently with a monument to Konev in Prague.
  • Andrea
    Andrea April 13 2020 11: 25 New
    0
    And what is so hooked? Why doesn’t it care how many Ukrainian values ​​still hang out in the private collections of the West? Or are there no such values? Do not be honored?
  • sanik2020
    sanik2020 April 13 2020 11: 26 New
    +1
    The Marshal, as the Ukrainian author assures, bears personal responsibility for the unpreparedness of the Red Army for war, since since January 1941 he held the post of chief of the General Staff of the Red Army.

    The General Staff is responsible for strategic planning and the general preparedness of the troops, only in the troops and in each specific unit there are commanders responsible for the training of personnel. And it’s not Zhukov’s fault that some of them didn’t know how to fight, others were confused, and some simply surrendered, despite the oath, they say, we won, let them now fight.
    Levchenko recalls that due to the actions of Zhukov, more than 1,5 million Ukrainians were captured in Germany.

    As if Zhukov ordered the Ukrainians to surrender and the rest to fight.
    1. Altona
      Altona April 13 2020 11: 52 New
      +4
      Quote: sanik2020
      As if Zhukov ordered the Ukrainians to surrender and the rest to fight.

      ------------------------
      That's for sure. By the way, the Germans passed Ukraine very quickly and found many accomplices there. Even a lot. Ukrainian collaborators noted not only in Ukraine itself, Khatyn in Belarus is also their business.
      1. 4ekist
        4ekist April 13 2020 17: 26 New
        0
        Instead of rotting these goods ... in Kolyma, comrade Khrushchev pardoned them with his broad gesture.
  • Atlant-1164
    Atlant-1164 April 13 2020 11: 30 New
    13
    when already our leadership .. will find an argument against this Kiev junta. against these chaos?
    1. Altona
      Altona April 13 2020 11: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Atlant-1164
      when already my guide ..

      -------------------------
      The only recipe is the denunciation of the Bialowieza Accords.
      1. Gato
        Gato April 13 2020 17: 48 New
        -1
        denunciation of Bialowieza agreements

        Unfortunately, this is utopia. The Russian Federation and Belarus cannot put together a union state. And it would be strong, moreover, to declare it open to the accession of individual republics and regions. But this, again, is utopia soon recourse
    2. Pardus
      Pardus April 13 2020 11: 53 New
      +8
      Probably never ... There was an opportunity, but they did not use it, and now the Kiev Boss from Washington will not let offend his vassals ...
      1. 4ekist
        4ekist April 13 2020 17: 33 New
        -1
        Are you sure about that? Kaklam terribly lucky with geography. Let's see.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 13 2020 11: 30 New
    +8
    Ukraine and arguments are two incompatible concepts. All Ukrainian "arguments" boil down to one thing - to denigrate, offend, try to humiliate everything that relates to the Soviet period and Russians as a nation, and in conclusion it is desirable to be rude and cynical. 30 years in this country were not in vain only for terry nationalism and fierce hatred for the country, which at one time (and obviously through its stupidity) helped to create, rebuild and provide land to this outskirts.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny April 13 2020 11: 51 New
    +7
    In Kiev-Umansky my grandfather was captured.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin April 13 2020 15: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Okolotochny
      In Kiev-Umansky my grandfather was captured.

      Welcome hi
      Of course, we are all "strategists" from the outside. It was possible to surrender Leningrad, it was possible to retreat from Sychevka near Moscow to the Ural Sychevka, but it must be borne in mind that Turkey and Japan were on the "thread" from the attack on the USSR on the side of Germany, and these same Heroic Sychevka did not allow this to be done.
      Your grandfather is a hero! Eternal Glory to our grandfathers!
      1. 16329
        16329 April 13 2020 16: 45 New
        -1
        There is nothing heroic in surrendering, there is a tragedy, you can only regret, to a certain extent
        1. Terenin
          Terenin April 13 2020 23: 12 New
          +4
          Quote: 16329
          There is nothing heroic in surrendering, there is a tragedy, you can only regret, to a certain extent

          He did not give up, but was captured. These are different circumstances.
        2. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 14 2020 00: 32 New
          +3
          I will not argue with you and prove something. Two returned from his stanitsa call, both were captured in Ukraine, both were in the same prisoner of war camp, had typhus in the camp for 18 days, given that the men were under forty. Grandfather escaped, took Berlin as part of 3 shock, was a nurse, carried the wounded out of the battlefield, for which he was awarded “For Courage”. After the war he worked, raised a family, worked as a LOADER and storekeeper, was awarded the “Badge of Honor”, ​​and died while working, exactly before the 40th anniversary of the Victory, on April 21. Would you be able to endure this in life? Yes, from a young age he was a laborer in the village, was from a poor family. Do not judge others, look at yourself and ask yourself - would you bear such hardships? And on the Internet on the couch you are of course an “expert”.
  • Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich April 13 2020 11: 55 New
    +1
    This stubborn type would have thought better with what speed the population of dill is now declining, almost approaching the beginning of the Second World War.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich April 13 2020 12: 10 New
    +4
    And they demolish the monuments, and they roll to Russia, to earn money. What kind of people? ..
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 13 2020 13: 20 New
      -2
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      And they demolish the monuments, and they roll to Russia, to earn money. What kind of people? ..

      So how? Monuments are demolished by those whose fault ordinary Ukrainians do not have work, and they are forced to go to Russia ...
      Are ordinary Ukrainians guilty of being driven by those who make their lives worse?
      This is it ...
      1. Catholic
        Catholic April 13 2020 14: 45 New
        11
        Quote: Albert1988
        Are ordinary Ukrainians guilty of being driven by those who make their lives worse?

        I think it has. They have chosen their development path. They had a choice. They chose European liberalism ...
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich April 13 2020 17: 53 New
          -1
          I subscribe to your every word. They chose themselves and are obliged to answer.
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 13 2020 22: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: Catholic
          I think it has. They have chosen their development path. They had a choice. They chose European liberalism ...

          Well, what am I talking about? Khataskraiki are worse than outright enemies, because thanks to them, 2% of the repulsed’s head bent a multimillion population!
    2. 4ekist
      4ekist April 13 2020 17: 39 New
      -1
      They are not needed here at all, let them go back to their dill.
  • prior
    prior April 13 2020 12: 11 New
    +2
    It is a pity that there is no "real Zhukov" in modern Russia.
    Then the Ukrainian question would be closed without opening .....
    At the same time, Europe and America are worn out.
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan April 13 2020 12: 36 New
    +2
    I see no reason even to consider the accession of Ukraine. They have normal sane people about five percent. Even a super high security camp will NEVER resolve the issue.
    If it's like brothers, then let me be an orphan.
  • Volder
    Volder April 13 2020 12: 36 New
    +1
    The final thesis at the end contradicts itself: the author doubts whether it was worth sending 1,5 million Ukrainians to liberate their land under heavy occupation? Typical Ukrainian logic, which is not.
  • Qwertyarion
    Qwertyarion April 13 2020 13: 10 New
    +4
    . Now Marshal Zhukov is trying hard to denigrate the Ukrainian press,

    We do not need to feel sorry, because we would not spare anyone.
    We are pure before our battalion commander, as before the Lord God.
    On the living, they overgrown with blood and clay overcoats,
    Blue flowers bloomed on the graves of the dead.
    Blossomed and fallen ... Autumn passes after autumn.
    Our mothers cry, peers silently sad.
    We did not know love, did not know the happiness of crafts,
    The fate of the soldiers was not easy for us.

    So, inspired ....
  • Yury Siritsky
    Yury Siritsky April 13 2020 13: 11 New
    +4
    Dybily not born, they become.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt April 13 2020 13: 44 New
      +3
      Quote: Yuri Siritsky
      Dybily not born, they become.

      Not true, very born. All who were born with the ideology of Ukrainians in their head immediately fall under this diagnosis. For such nonsense in the head, can only be kept by the very ones you wrote about.
    2. Catholic
      Catholic April 13 2020 14: 42 New
      +7
      You need to download less. There will be more brains.
    3. Graduate student
      Graduate student April 13 2020 15: 38 New
      +8
      Quote: Yuri Siritsky
      Dybily not born, they become.

      They become especially after they put a pot on his head laughing
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 13 2020 13: 23 New
    +5
    People, what are you really thinking about, that with these Bandera savages you can conduct a dialogue on some topic? These jumpers shook all their brains, otherwise they would not have fought with Donbass. The entire former Ukrainian SSR has long been divided into Bandera ragul and normal people who, due to circumstances, still cannot say their word. So it is necessary for Donbass to become a leader and lead everyone to whom the feat of grandfathers and fathers in the Second World War. these are not empty words, but their story, no matter how terrible it may be.
    1. Catholic
      Catholic April 13 2020 14: 40 New
      +9
      Quote: Ros 56
      Do you really think that with these Bandera savages you can conduct a dialogue

      No, you cannot have a dialogue with them. With neo-fascists in general it is impossible to conduct a dialogue. Neofascists must be destroyed.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt April 13 2020 13: 41 New
    +3
    In Ukraine, found "arguments" against Marshal Zhukov
    Now, offhand, I can express a thousand arguments against Ukraine itself. And not a single argument in favor of modern Ukraine comes to mind ..
    1. Catholic
      Catholic April 13 2020 14: 35 New
      +9
      And can’t come. Since modern Ukraine is a hotbed of neo-fascism and a conductor of Euro-liberal politics and orientation
    2. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich April 13 2020 17: 57 New
      0
      So here I am .. I would like to understand, but what about the pots, jumping, what about the monuments? Where is it all to get out of my head? Make a labotomy for the whole multinational Russian people? And then what will we turn into? .. Also in maydaunov? ..
  • 4ekist
    4ekist April 13 2020 13: 54 New
    +1
    What can be taken from the brainless? They have such heroes in the trend as Bandera, Shukhevychi, Vasyury and other lessons ..
    1. Catholic
      Catholic April 13 2020 14: 33 New
      +8
      Quote: 4ekist
      brainless

      They all galloped their brains yes
  • Victorio
    Victorio April 13 2020 14: 32 New
    0
    (paraphrasing the well-known: the expression would be a monument, but there would be an article
  • Charlie
    Charlie April 13 2020 14: 33 New
    -4
    Can anyone name at least one victory of Zhukov? Well, except for Berlin, maybe. Yes, and he took together with Konev
    1. Graduate student
      Graduate student April 13 2020 15: 35 New
      +9
      Quote: Charlie
      at least one victory of Zhukov

      From Khalkhin Gol to Berlin. Not satisfied? Rezun read?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich April 13 2020 18: 00 New
      +1
      I can name the most important victory of Marshal Zhukov! The fact that we live and did not burn in the ovens of concentration camps. And we, and our Parents and grandfathers. I hope you understand, theorist, you are ours, the greatest.
  • Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish April 13 2020 17: 00 New
    +1
    Regarding the losses of the USSR in the Second World War:
    "At the hearings, the co-chairman of the movement" Immortal Regiment of Russia "State Duma Deputy Nikolai Zemtsov presented a report" Documentary basis of the People's project "Establishing the fate of the missing defenders of the Fatherland", in which studies were carried out on population decline, which changed the idea of ​​the scale of Soviet losses in the Great Patriotic War ...

    - The total decline in the population of the USSR in 1941-1945 - more than 52 million 812 thousand people, - said Zemtsov, referring to the declassified data of the USSR State Planning Committee. - Of these, irrecoverable losses as a result of the factors of war - more than 19 million servicemen and about 23 million civilians. The total natural mortality rate of servicemen and civilians during this period could have amounted to more than 10 million 833 thousand people (including 5 million 760 thousand - children who died under the age of four). Irrecoverable losses of the population of the USSR as a result of the factors of war amounted to almost 42 million people. "
    https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2017/03/22/71864-pobeda-pred-yavlyaet-schet
    1. Victorio
      Victorio April 13 2020 23: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Old Fuck
      Declared Zemtsov, citing declassified data of the State Planning Commission of the USSR.

      ====
      and even from the page of such an "authoritative" publication as a new newspaper
  • Gato
    Gato April 13 2020 17: 11 New
    0
    An old song about the main thing: all the "supporters" are to blame, starting with Khmelnitsky. And Lenin, Shchors, Vatutin, Zhukov and their monuments are to blame for the fact that for 30 years of "independence" Ukraine has slipped into the UG.
  • sgr291158
    sgr291158 April 13 2020 17: 47 New
    +1
    When will all this hysteria end at them?
    1. Lister
      Lister April 13 2020 17: 55 New
      14
      When the people of Ukraine say amicably: Enough! ...
  • Charlie
    Charlie April 13 2020 18: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Graduate student
    Quote: Charlie
    at least one victory of Zhukov

    From Khalkhin Gol to Berlin. Not satisfied? Rezun read?

    Khalkhin-Gol was before the Second World War. I would like about his victories in the Second World War. Okay, let's write Khalkhin Gol as an asset to the "victory marshal". Rezun yes, I read it. And Isaeva. And Jack London. And Bulgakov too
  • iouris
    iouris April 14 2020 10: 43 New
    0
    The topic "In Ukraine" is not relevant. Nothing happens there.