Military Review

Chief Jeronimo: Fierce Enemy of White Mexicans

221

Photograph by Camillus Sidney, 1849-1901. Library of Congress Jeronimo - with a long rifle in his hands on the right


Before judging the flaws of other people, look at the traces of their moccasins.
Aphorism of the American Indians


Native American War. Among the Indian leaders who fought with the US Army, the name of the leader Jeronimo (in the Meskalero-Chiricauan dialect of the Apache Goatlai, “The One Who Yawns”) is one of the first. He was born in June 1829, and died on February 17, 1909. The legendary leader of the Chiricahua Apache, he led the fight against the invasion of whites in the lands of his tribe for 25 years, and only in 1886 was forced to surrender to the American army.

Chief Jeronimo: Fierce Enemy of White Mexicans
Shirt Apaches. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

It is believed that he was an outstanding leader and healer of the Bedochka tribal group, among whom he was born and which belonged to the Apache tribe. From 1850 to 1886, Jeronimo, along with three Indians of the Apache Chirikaua-Chihende, Tsokanende and Nedhi, carried out numerous raids against the Mexican and American military in the northern Mexican states of Chihuahua and Sonora and in the southwestern American territories of New Mexico and Arizona. Jeronimo’s raids and related hostilities were part of a long conflict between the Apaches and the United States, which began immediately after the end of the war with Mexico in 1848.


Apache Handbag for little things. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

We note right away that the concept of leader among the Indians is not exactly what the “leader" of civilized countries is. Often, all his power rested only on one authority, and he could advise his fellow tribesmen, but not order. In addition, there were usually two leaders! Peacetime and war. And then the tribe subordinated to the leader of peace, and only men to the military. Jeronimo was precisely the military leader (although he was also a healer), and even if he was well known, he was not the leader of the whole Chirikaua tribe or Bedonkhe. But because of his fame and fortune, he could call warriors to himself at any moment, and 30-50 Apaches immediately appeared to him. He fought with the whites when he was sure of victory, but he did not grieve when they turned out to be stronger.


Apache Arizona. Mace National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

From 1876 to 1886, he surrendered three times to pale-faced and went to live on a Apache reservation in Arizona. But then he got bored there, and he again went on the warpath. He was caught again, he again “raised his hands up”, promised to “bury the tomahawk of war”, but then he was digging it out again! It was only in 1886, after the persecution in northern Mexico by U.S. troops that followed his third escape from the reservation in 1885, that Jeronimo surrendered for the last time. And not to anyone, but to Lieutenant Charles Gatewood, a graduate of West Point, who ... spoke the Apache language, and whom Jeronimo respected very much when he met him several years earlier. He handed over the captive to General Nelson Miles, who treated Jeronimo as a prisoner of war and first transferred him to Fort Bowie, and then, along with 27 other Apaches, sent him to the rest of the Chiricahua tribe, who had previously been relocated to Florida.


Apache Headdress. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

With Jeronimo as a prisoner, the United States made him a good PR, attracting him to participate in various events. For the government, this was proof of his success in pacifying the Indians, but Jeronimo was also very favorable to such an attitude, since he himself earned a lot on this. In 1898, Jeronimo was brought to the Trans-Mississippi International Exhibition in Omaha, Nebraska. After her, he became a frequent visitor to fairs, exhibitions and other social events. He earned money by selling his photographs, as well as bows, arrows, buttons from his shirt, and even a hat made by him. In 1904, he participated in the World Exposition in St. Louis, Missouri, where he sold souvenirs and his own photographs. In 1905, the Department of Indian Affairs invited him to participate in the inaugural parade of President Theodore Roosevelt. Actually, how did you invite? He simply took it and “presented” it, because it was considered a prisoner of war, that is, it was, as it were, the property of the military authorities of the US government. However, his advantages were not infringed upon. For example, in Texas, he even participated in a staged bison hunt, where he shot one bison, and although the soldiers accompanied him at all such events, they did not bother him with their supervision. By the way, the organizers of this hunt did not know that neither the people of Jeronimo nor he himself were bison hunters. By the way, being a participant in the inaugural celebrations, Jeronimo appealed to the president with a request to return his tribe back to Arizona, to the land of his ancestors, but he refused.


Apache A hat trimmed with a pattern of beads. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

His life ended in early 1909. Jeronimo, 79, fell off his horse and lay on the cold ground until morning, and three days later, on February 17, 1909, he died of pneumonia in Fort Sill, where he was buried in a local cemetery among other captured Apache Indians.


Jeronimo. "One who yawns." US National Archives

Such, in general terms, is the fate of this wonderful man of his own, which we will now examine in more detail. To begin with, who are these same Apaches, whose leader was Jeronimo and how many of them there were.

So Apache is a collective term for several culturally close groups of Native Americans hailing from the southwestern United States. Currently, these include Western Apaches, Chirikaua, Mescalero (who was the leader of Winnetu in the works of Karl May), hikarilla, Lipan, and lowland Apaches (which were previously called Kayova Apaches).


Kiowa. Moccasin leggings. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

For decades, the ongoing conflict between Mexican Apaches and Apaches living in the United States has been an integral part of their lifestyle, which they presented as a kind of "economic venture." The Indians attacked the white settlers to steal livestock and other prey, and also captured them for ransom or killed, sometimes with the help of torture. Mexicans and Americans retaliated, which were no less brutal and very rarely confined to identifying the true initiators of these raids. Such "strikes" and "counterattacks" fueled the flames of a fierce war for many years. This war rolled like a tennis ball between Apaches and Mexicans, and later between Apaches and Americans. By this way, by the way, Jeronimo himself lost his whole family when, on March 5, 1851, a detachment of 400 Mexican soldiers from the state of Sonora, under the command of Colonel Jose Maria Carrasco, attacked the camp of Jeronimo. It so happened that just at that time, most men went to the nearest city ... to trade, so there was no one to defend themselves. Many women and children were killed, including a wife, three children and mother Jeronimo. According to Native American concepts, such revenge was unfair and, in turn, required revenge!


Apache shield. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

That is why all the time from 1850 to 1886, Jeronimo not only lived in a war, like many of his other tribesmen, he also sought to avenge the killing of his family by Mexican soldiers, set a kind of record of cruelty for all this time, which was unparalleled in any from the Indian leaders of his contemporaries. The American captured by him could still hope for salvation. In this case, the Mexicans would have suffered a painful death. Jeronimo himself described it this way:

“One late evening, when we were returning from the city, we were met by several women and children who told us that Mexican troops from some other city attacked our camp, killed all the men, captured all our ponies, captured our weapon, destroyed our supplies and killed many of our women and children. We quickly split up, hiding as best we could before dark, and when it became dark we gathered at the appointed meeting place - in the thickets by the river. “We quietly crept into our camp one by one, put out the sentries, and when all of our dead were counted, I saw that among them were my old mother, my young wife, and three of my young children.”



The main apache of the planet is Pierre Bryce as the leader of Winneth. What a tomahawk he has here - just shine! But just these, broad-blade, like axes, were delivered by the Spaniards to the Indians. And they themselves made samples similar to them

The leader of the tribe to which Jeronimo belonged, Mangas Coloradas (in Spanish, Red Sleeves), sent him to the Cochiz tribe for help in order to take revenge on the Mexicans. It was from this time that the name Jeronimo became famous, because he, ignoring the deadly hail of bullets that Mexicans showered with Apaches, attacked Mexican soldiers with a knife and cut his throat with the first blow, and removed the scalp with the second. Some believe that this is how his nickname Jeronimo was born, as Mexican soldiers turned to his holy patron Jerome (“Jeronimo!”) In this way, asking him for help. Others attribute this to the incorrect pronunciation of his name by Mexican soldiers.


A real shirt of Meskaler’s Apaches. National Museum of the American Indians, Washington)

In his autobiography, published in 1905, there were such lines relating to his attitude to the Mexicans:

“I killed a lot of Mexicans, I don’t know how many, because I often didn’t count them. Some of them were not worth recounting. A lot of time has passed since then, but I still don't like Mexicans. With me they were always insidious and vicious. "



And ... the future (and still very young!) Indian of all times and peoples Goyko Mitich. Still with Pierre Bryce's assistants

As for the Chiricahua tribe, here many had mixed feelings for Jeronimo. On the one hand, he was respected as an experienced military leader, but many Apaches did not like him, mainly because he placed his personal revenge above tribal interests. Nevertheless, the Apache people were awestruck before the “strength” of Jeronimo, which he repeatedly demonstrated. These abilities clearly indicated to them that Jeronimo had supernatural abilities that he could use for the benefit of people or to the detriment. It was said about him that Jeronimo was able to foresee the events that then occurred in the future. He also had the ability to heal other people, which for the Apaches was a clear indication of his close connection with the spirits. It is clear that none of them simply dared to oppose such a person!

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Red Cloud: leader, warrior, diplomat
221 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Free wind
    Free wind April 20 2020 05: 03 New
    +2
    Goiko Mitich is of course our main Indian. Interestingly, the Americans, the United States, were quite loyal to the Indians. In South America, the Indians were quite actively destroyed. Actually, we did not have the most cruel conditions, it seems that we destroyed the Russians more than the conquered peoples.
    1. Graz
      Graz April 20 2020 06: 36 New
      +5
      it’s okay to invent how the Spaniards in South America treated the Indians much better than the Anglo-Saxons, there was no slavery for the locals, there were no planned genocides, in fact now there are not a small number of inhabitants of South America are purebred descendants of the Aborigines, as an example, the former ousted president of Bolivia, Evo Morales, or with mixtures of Indians and whites, that is, there are not many pure white-skinned descendants of the Spaniards and Portuguese, and in the United States in the region of 1 million local Aborigines left at the moment, Canada had a slightly better attitude towards Aborigines
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 20 2020 07: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Graz
        , in fact, now not a small number of residents of the United States are purebred descendants of the aborigines,

        Moreover, in many countries of South America they make up the majority of the population.

        When the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America was celebrated. he was celebrated only North America and the only one in South America, Argentina. ALL!

        other countries, no! Monuments to Columbus were stoned and spat on ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 20 2020 08: 09 New
          +6
          Andrew! hi
          Monuments to Columbus were stoned and spat on ...
          In my opinion, a very negative example, indicating the level of culture and intelligence of the protesters.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 20 2020 08: 16 New
            +3
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            In my opinion, a very negative example, indicating the level of culture and intelligence of the protesters.

            hello Anton hi

            They can be understood: the "discovery" of America has brought them innumerable disasters, the scrapping of their civilization, disease and loss ....
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 20 2020 08: 27 New
              +5
              I think that I will never be able to understand the motives of such a contingent. Unfortunately, in 1992 I did not have the opportunity to monitor events, for I served urgently.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 20 2020 09: 04 New
          +6
          the only one in South America, Argentina.
          Maybe because the Araucans didn’t care with whom to fight? First, they “broke in” the “white and fluffy” Incas, then - to the same “cute” Spaniards.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 10: 03 New
            +8
            First, they “broke in” the “white and fluffy” Incas, then - to the same “cute” Spaniards.

            I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

            Angel Della Valle, the picture depicts the return of the "loving araucans" from the raid. The woman, apparently - is white ... angry
            1. kalibr
              April 20 2020 10: 20 New
              +4
              Savages are savages!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 10: 22 New
                +6
                Savages are savages!

                Well, yes ... that's right, Vyacheslav Olegovich ... the difference of cultures! request
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 April 20 2020 15: 17 New
                  +7
                  Hi Nikolay!
                  Quote: Pan Kohanku
                  the difference of cultures!

                  A woman is a legitimate trophy, and it’s always useful in the household! With any culture. laughing
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 15: 44 New
                    +3
                    A woman is a legitimate trophy, and it’s always useful in the household! With any culture.

                    This is if for love, Sergey! wink And the rest is wildness. Although any troubled times expose such savagery ... That people become worse than animals ... no or maybe we just thought up some rules for a peaceful life, but in general it’s not so? what give one to the gun, do not give to the other, but to the one who with the gun (power, strength, crowd of associates - insert the right one) let me do what he wants ... He will become a degenerate! request ek "philosophized" ..
                    1. kalibr
                      April 20 2020 16: 37 New
                      +3
                      "The rifle gives birth to power" Mao Zedong
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 16: 38 New
                        +3
                        "The rifle gives birth to power" Mao Zedong

                        "The one with the gun is right!" (Dm. "Goblin" Puchkov, "Lord of the Rings"). yes
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka April 20 2020 16: 27 New
                +6
                Quote: Pan Kohanku
                First, they “broke in” the “white and fluffy” Incas, then - to the same “cute” Spaniards.

                I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

                Angel Della Valle, the picture depicts the return of the "loving araucans" from the raid. The woman, apparently - is white ... angry

                Quote: kalibr
                Savages are savages!

                I'm afraid that when the Spaniards returned from similar raids, then a similar girl lay across the horse, but red !!! So that....?
                1. akunin
                  akunin 10 June 2020 09: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  then across the horse lay a similar girl, but red !!!
                  steamed from the bath. laughing
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 June 2020 14: 35 New
                    +1
                    Quote: akunin
                    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    then across the horse lay a similar girl, but red !!!
                    steamed from the bath. laughing

                    Then from the saloon!
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 38 New
              +1
              "a woman, apparently white" and unhappy: most likely, the Indians in front of her killed her loved ones, and her fate is also a little enviable. It is good if her master "husband" will be a sensitive person in his own way, and if a sadist or in a "circle let go"?
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 09: 12 New
                -1
                and her fate is also a little enviable.

                savages eat savages! That says it all! hi
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 20 2020 10: 36 New
            -1
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            the only one in South America, Argentina.
            Maybe because the Araucans didn’t care with whom to fight?

            everything is simpler: there are most of all descendants of colonial settlers (South Europeans), as well as descendants from mixed marriages with Indians
        3. vladcub
          vladcub April 20 2020 13: 23 New
          +5
          Columbus himself was a significant person, but it was not his fault that there were many bastards among whites.
          You know, I just remembered the movie: "Prairie" there at the end of the movie, the commandant of the caravan of white settlers says to Net Lamp: "I thought that white could get along with the Indians." It seems to me that the film successfully showed the tragedy of the situation: most of the whites could well get along with the Indians, but among them was the Bush family, and for the sake of profit they would kill someone: a white or an Indian
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 20 2020 13: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: vladcub
            most whites could get along with the Indians,

            don't think: " Bolivar can't stand two " (C)

            The land of the White Indians was much more necessary than the Indians on them, they were competitors hi
          2. kalibr
            April 20 2020 16: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: vladcub
            but among them was the Bush family

            There will always be a Bush family!
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 20 2020 08: 38 New
        +4
        Just the same genocide was in Latin America
        Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa, 97% of the population was also destroyed: from 180 thousand in 1520 to 5 thousand in 1626. And so - everywhere in Mexico and Central America. The advent of the Europeans meant the lightning and almost complete disappearance of the indigenous population, who lived and flourished there for many millennia.

        On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.

        It all started like this:
        Columbus ordered all residents over 14 years of age to surrender to the Spaniards a thimble of golden sand or 25 pounds of cotton (in areas where there was no gold). Having fulfilled this quota, a copper token with the date of receipt of the last tribute was hung on the neck. The token gave its holder the right to three months of life. Caught without this token or expired, the hands of both hands were chopped off, hung on the victim’s neck and sent to die in their village. Columbus, who had previously been involved in the slave trade along the western coast of Africa, apparently adopted this type of execution from Arab slave traders. During the governorship of Columbus, only in Spain, up to 10 thousand Indians were killed in this way.

        And then worse. The atrocities of the Spaniards were irrational - sadism for the sake of sadism.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 20 2020 09: 13 New
          +6
          Albert! hi
          And the Belgians, painting the atrocities of the Spaniards, such "pussies"!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 20 2020 09: 26 New
            +4
            Welcome hi
            There (Both Americas) all Europeans were noted, but the Spaniards were genocidal.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 10: 20 New
              +5
              There (Both Americas) all Europeans were noted, but the Spaniards were genocidal.

              Albert, what about the arrogant Saxons and the French who joined them? drinks
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar April 20 2020 10: 37 New
                +3
                The British and French - first Peace, Friendship, Chewing gum.
                Then the use (hiring) of the Indians in the struggle against each other. The French in Louisiana switched from trade to forcibly squeezing the lands of the Indians.
                The Americans - first peace and commerce, then the forcible removal of land and relocation for minor compensation. About 70% of Indians died during wars and transfers.
                Bottom line: for the human race of all the conquerors, only the British belonged to them. hi
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 11: 22 New
                  +6
                  Bottom line: for the human race of all the conquerors, only the British belonged to them.

                  Logan fought with the settlers when there was still British rule, Although, again - not with the army! And with the local arrogant peyzans, migrant workers, who provoked the Indians themselves to war, having massacred women and children at the Yellow Stream. angry
                  The French in Louisiana moved from trade to forcibly squeezing the lands of the Indians.

                  Both sides (both the English and the French) relied on the Indians in the French-Indian war. The Hurons supported the French .. and they were out of luck!
                  In general, the Franco-Indian war is interesting by the "choice of gentlemen." wink While the Seven Years War is going on in Europe, there was a chance to squeeze Canada from the French, which the Anglo-Saxons took advantage of!
                  In domestic history, only one analogy suggests itself - this is the Soviet-Finnish war. what Joseph Vissarionovich at a meeting in April 1940 said: "They have a big war in the west, and it is not clear whether they are either fighting there or playing cards!" That is, the moment for the war was chosen very on time! AT another point in time all of Europe would have gone for us, and here they were busy in the west. hi This is to the insight of the ambiguous Stalin. I do not accept nasty things about this, Stalin decided everything politically correct. soldier otherwise, the Finns and Germans in 1941 from Sestroretsk would attack Leningrad (15-20 km). request
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar April 20 2020 12: 46 New
                    +5
                    The Finnish War, like the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, provided the necessary territorial buffer, without which things would go much worse in the Second World War
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 13: 01 New
                      +5
                      The Finnish War, like the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, provided the necessary territorial buffer, without which things would go much worse in the Second World War

                      Lord, it’s nice that another company was added to our company smart the interlocutor! good No, colleagues, the company is growing, and thank God!drinks Albert, I just imagined how our website patriots would cast me on their own, you know, than with the previous comment. Stalin was not nice to one, I would not have traded the other with my "insufficiently patriotic statement", but in general you have to be realistic in such assessments, and not give out your own negative emotions as thoughts! hi I bow to you!
                      By the way, I was really hooked by the phrase of Joseph Vissarionovich: "They either fight there or play cards!" More precisely about the "strange war" and it was impossible to say! request
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 20 2020 13: 44 New
                        +5
                        As for Stalin - the quick surrender of the French in the 40th was also a very unpleasant surprise for him.
                      2. vladcub
                        vladcub April 20 2020 14: 27 New
                        +4
                        Nikolay, you are right: we have a lot of emotion ratings. It happens that you look at how frenzied they “beat” each other even become scared. Emotions are excusable to the wild Astra, not to adults
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 15: 11 New
                        +4
                        It happens that you look at how frenzied they “beat” each other even become scared.

                        Duck, damn it, Svyatoslav, it’s scary to go to some discussion threads! drinks here we have a corner of the world. Just without a peace pipe laughing
                      4. Astra wild
                        Astra wild April 20 2020 19: 18 New
                        +2
                        Vladkub, thinks I'm a child?
                        We are emotional, but you men are worse than women. A woman is weaker than a man, and therefore a woman is more prudent.
                        Boys, before minus think. After all, you are strong
              2. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master April 20 2020 13: 32 New
                +7
                Greetings to an honest company. hi
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Americans First Peace and Trade

                Excuse me, but who are the Americans?
                Quote: Krasnodar
                humanly, of all the conquerors, only the British

                I did not understand what this conclusion came from.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 20 2020 13: 40 New
                  +2
                  laughing ..funny duckling
                  The Americans-the victorious independence party in the war))
                  From the fact that the British did not squeeze the land from the Indians - only trade. It was a precept - a friendly attitude towards the natives.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master April 20 2020 15: 16 New
                    +6
                    And it seems to me that it is impossible to single out one of the colonialists as more or less humane (cruel). Everyone did what he could. In the XVIII century. - British, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese. In the XIX century. - their descendants (Canadians, Americans, Mexicans). None of them were humane and the degree of damage they caused to the local population was limited only by their physical capabilities.
                    The subjects of the British crown may not have been so distinguished in this field as the subjects of the Spanish crown (there were fewer opportunities, they later started), but in any case, no less than the French or the Dutch. And about their descendants - the Americans and say nothing. These had the opportunity to swing their arms to the fullest, having a total advantage over the locals in all aspects of human activity, well, they waved.
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    the British did not squeeze the land from the Indians

                    Arriving in the air when they arrived in America, did they fly? They built their cities, forts, plowed the land, got fish and animals and all this on the land squeezed from the Indians.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 20 2020 15: 23 New
                      0
                      As for the British - they were friends with the Indians, but with the Europeans ... they bought Manhattan bought by the Dutch from the Indians under the guns of warships from the Netherlands, etc.
                      About forts and arable land - land was bought, leased, in a no man's land they did something like the prototype of Khom at Migdal (wall and tower) of the Zionists - they put in a fort, allowed the Indians to understand among themselves who this wilderness belongs to, and then agreed with the winner - these colonialists had everything very clearly laughing
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish April 20 2020 15: 52 New
                      +5
                      As for the British - they were friends with the Indians ...

                      What are you, colleague, when was this and with whom were the British friends? They have never had such a concept as friendship, only interests. hi
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 20 2020 16: 37 New
                      +2
                      We were friends - in the sense of trading and treating kindly, because it was an indication from above hi
                    4. Catfish
                      Catfish April 20 2020 16: 42 New
                      +5
                      With regard to trade, I agree, but on the "goodwill" there are reasonable doubts. request
                    5. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 20 2020 16: 48 New
                      +3
                      Goodwill sincere and friendly attitude - two big differences)).
                2. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh April 22 2020 10: 52 New
                  0
                  When there were few white (mainly from England) immigrants,
                  often there was a famine in their villages.
                  Not only were friends with the Indians, but also entered into marriages with Indian women
                  from the environment of leaders for rapprochement of peoples. The Indians willingly went for it,
                  since their tribes were constantly at war with each other. And they needed
                  white weapon.
                3. Catfish
                  Catfish April 22 2020 11: 05 New
                  +2
                  It is a perfectly reasonable approach when the interests of both are clearly expressed. But I did not mean a particular case, but the policy of the whole state as a whole. England, of course.
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 16: 20 New
              +7
              As for the British - they were friends with the Indians, but with the Europeans ... they bought Manhattan bought by the Dutch from the Indians under the guns of warships from the Netherlands, etc.

              and after all there was one more country which (not including the Dutch, English, French and Spaniards) tried to get colonies in North America. It was .. Swedes!
              And they even built Fort Christiania in the late 16th and early 17th centuries on the shores of Delaware Bay. The Swedes themselves lived there, also the Finns. True, the Swedish settlement there did not last long - less than 30 years - and was conquered by the Dutch (in 1655). request
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 16: 38 New
              +4
              Europeans loved each other there much more than Indians laughing
            4. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 16: 41 New
              +4
              Europeans loved each other there much more than Indians

              Well, yes, dear ones scold - they just amuse! laughing Although .. Albert, in the tumultuous 16th century and in the Thirty Years' War, they slaughtered each other with a special draw on the principle of faith. fellow And God knows who was less bloodthirsty - Protestants or good Catholics! request
              "Excuse me, señor, but this is the Spanish infantry!" (the brave but narrow-minded captain Allatriste). drinks
            5. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 16: 55 New
              +3
              So Western Europe has traditionally destroyed its neighbors and even tribesmen for centuries with all available methods, up to the use of chemical and bacteriological (these even Greeks distinguished themselves in ancient times) weapons. After the WWII a little prifigegi from the magnitude of the massacre, so twenty years later quickly, for the most part, went under the Führer - except for the irreconcilable British sitting on the island laughing
            6. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 17: 08 New
              +5
              After the PMV, a little prifigegi from the magnitude of the slaughter

              pacifism and Jean-Paul Sartre, who, sitting in the trench during the "strange war", was stunned how you can fight with such cute Germans who send them bun gifts through the line. front. belay
              Those who won are ofigel. Those who lost - dreamed of a rematch! hi
              other than the irreconcilable Britons sitting on the island

              they were just lucky, like Sancho Panse in dreams - they have their own island. At one time, EMNIP, Vyacheslav Olegovich issued an article about "home guard" - the British people's militia after Dunkirk. yes Having lost (and, in part, given to the Germans) the whole swag, the “tommies” did not know how to defend England! request Well, they made attempts to randomly strengthen their army "from matches and acorns." The main ersatz-armored car of the British on the island was to be the "Beaverette". The civilian passenger car was sheathed with armor, the Boys anti-tank rifle or the Bren machine gun were put into the embrasure - voila, the asphalt wedge is ready! And it’s a great happiness that these armored cars never had to participate in battles ... drinks
            7. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 17 New
              +4
              Moreover, the British seriously discussed the use of museum halberds by the militia against the German troops, the landing of which they expected)). But saved from the exceptionally good training of the Royal Air Force
            8. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 17: 20 New
              +5
              the British seriously discussed the use of museum halberds

              I didn’t hear about this, but I heard that one of our “gifted” people suggested that we equip parts for which there weren’t enough rifles with axes during the WWII. Well, the king-father of his comrades was preparing for war, you can’t say anything ...
              But saved from the exceptionally good training of the Royal Air Force

              yes, they won this battle! hi on the other hand, they also had a fleet - not like a German.
            9. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 25 New
              +3
              I read about it - RI felt the unpreparedness of industry for war much stronger than industrialized Europeans.
              The lost Battle of England was supposed to be the first bell for Hitler, but instead, IdiOtiK attacked the USSR.
            10. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 17: 30 New
              +4
              I read about it - RI felt the unpreparedness of industry for war much stronger than industrialized Europeans.

              Yeah, but if we were to imagine a hypothetical situation of a one-on-one war of then-Germany and then-Russia, I would venture to suggest that they would be blown clean. Unfortunately. In general, industry was not comparable. And no heroism of the Russian soldier could fix this.
              but instead attacked the USSR

              even the German ambassador to the USSR, von Schulenburg, warned him ... hi
            11. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 34 New
              +2
              Both the ambassador and the German military attache - but the son of his uncle and niece, after easy victories in Europe, very much believed in himself. Decided that incest breeds genius laughing
              PMV one on one with the Germans? They would blow it, and very quickly.
            12. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 17: 38 New
              +5
              PMV one on one with the Germans? They would blow it, and very quickly.

              generally not comparable level was ... Logistics. Maybe the Germans didn’t have enough bread - but there were even enough cartridges-artillery-machine guns, even on both fronts! What is our plus? Only open spaces and heroism ... Hmm ... what (colleagues, I’ll ask you not to be offended!) drinks
            13. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 42 New
              +2
              There is another question in the plans of the Germans. If they "went to Moscow", they would have become stuck. Taking Peter, Kiev and Poland - they would have signed the World with a bunch of nishtyakov and buns.
            14. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich April 20 2020 19: 55 New
              -1
              You remembered Pan Kokhank on June 22, 1941, or are you talking about PMV? Remember the Brest Fortress, Sevastopol ... the Germans in the Second World War also had no problems with the quantity of weapons and ammunition, even on May 9, 1945 ... For the Russian, there is no WWII — there is a Second World War.
        2. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich April 20 2020 19: 41 New
          -1
          I can only guess. If there was a one-on-one war of the Russian Empire with the 2nd Reich (Germany), the Germans would not be able to “play the card of V. I. Lenin”. The Bolsheviks pressed that the war was between the "bourgeois", and that the foreheads hurt the workers and peasants. “One-on-one war” would raise a “question in the face” - either you are for Vera, the tsar and the Fatherland, or you are a German ... RIA collapsed from above - first overthrew Nicholas 2, then “agitation for peace” finished off the army from below.
  2. vladcub
    vladcub April 20 2020 18: 02 New
    +2
    Nikolai, I have not heard of these "tanks".
  3. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 09: 34 New
    +1
    Nikolai, I have not heard of these "tanks".

    there were also not such models of weapons! Everyone is fighting what he can. They made their Blackard bombers, and planned to stop the tanks by inserting a rail between the rink and the caterpillar (the Ethiopians had a ride with an Italian wedge a few years before, only they put a log in). laughing We made ersatz tanks NI, and in Leningrad they made ampoules ... soldier Natural behavior in such a situation, Svyatoslav! hi Only the Nazis rushed about in search of a "miracle weapon". And the Japanese replaced the lack of technology with a wealth of people who wanted to die for Mikado - in the sense, a stick with a mine at the end in samurai hands, and forth - to tanks! fellow
    here, I found an article. The author is only a certain A. Platonov. About the "home guard" of the 1940 model. drinks
    https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/10638-igrushechnye-soldatiki-cherchillya-oruzhie-britanskogo-opolcheniya/
  4. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 20 2020 16: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: Krasnodar
    About forts and arable land - land was bought, leased, in no man's land

    I think, colleague, you yourself do not believe what you are writing about. Is it right without a single violent seizure and accession? Everything is exclusively voluntary, and the natives are "to blame." smile
    With this logic, we can hardly blame the Spaniards for anything - on the side of all these Cortes and Pizarro we always fought or otherwise helped the native contingents in the battle and campaign.
    I think if you delve deeper into these stories, you can find facts that refute your thesis - punitive operations by the British against the Indians, deep raids in the woods, but what if it is not an aggressive war?
    Quote: Krasnodar
    As for the British - they were friends with the Indians

    The series "American Friendship" season 167, series 12.
    The leader of the Blue Turtle tribe Poisonous Smoke sold to the British for three muskets and a keg of gunpowder a piece of land of the Green Eagles tribe. The British set up a small fort there, and immediately trappers set traps on the fur-bearing beast, fishermen blocked the river with nets, and farmers cut down several acres of forest. The Green Eagles Indians raided, took the fort by storm, and burned down those they caught and killed, including children and women. Colonel Clark and Captain Wesley went with a company of royal shooters and guides from the Blue Turtle tribe into the woods and carved a pair of Native American camps along with the same children and women. The Indians went to the headwaters of the Ringing River. Upon returning from the campaign, Captain Wesley marries Cecilia Bolsworth. The abandoned Julia suffers.
    In the next series, you will see how the same thing that happened to the Green Eagles tribe happens to the Blue Turtles tribe, as well as how Julia marries the elderly Jeff Bolsworth and becomes captain Wesley's mother-in-law.
    laughing
  5. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 08 New
    +3
    Well, of course this happens with any colonization. )) Even such a kind new government as the Russian imperial forced the Aleuts to maliciously attack the pale-faced, several of whom even saved the English brig, despicably sinking an Indian canoe laughing
  6. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 20 2020 17: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Well, of course this happens with any colonization.

    That’s what I’m talking about. And highlighting the British as something whiter and fluffier is fundamentally wrong. The exact same methods and the same results. The first Spaniards in the New World had no European competitors, they were tearing off locals from the very beginning, while the British first had to deal with their colleagues - here, perforce, they had to flirt with the natives. But when they figured it out - a curve started in the bathhouse, there was no longer any restraint. And the fact that they rolled the Indians already under the stripe-old instead of Union Jack, for me personally, does not matter.
  7. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 20 2020 18: 20 New
    +2
    I completely agree - but in fact the British were still “more humane”)).
  8. Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 55 New
    +1
    If possible, read more about this.
  9. kalibr
    April 20 2020 16: 39 New
    +6
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    the degree of damage they caused to the local population was limited only by their physical capabilities.

    That's it!
  10. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 20 2020 16: 51 New
    +2
    Not a fact - the British had a well-established colonial policy, where, at the first stage, the Europeans were deservedly considered dangerous competitors, and the locals - cute, narrow-minded potential terpils.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 14: 22 New
    +5
    ... arrogant Saxons

    Fu, Nikolai, you are not a "boy from paradise" to put it that way. So to the "p and n ... s with mattresses" can be reached. request laughing drinks
    (Here even the computer does not accept this word on a pin ...)
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 15: 12 New
      +6
      Fu, Nikolai, you are not a "boy from paradise" to put it that way.

      Well, okay, forgive me for the tenth time. wink I feel sorry for the Indians, but Goiko Mitich - our everything! soldier
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 April 20 2020 15: 20 New
      +4
      Hi Konstantin!
      Quote: Sea Cat
      So to the "p and n ... s with mattresses" can be reached.

      I don’t accept these expressions either! Maximum Yankees!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 16: 36 New
        +5
        Maximum Yankees!

        "Yankee Doodle - Dandy!" wink An interesting case is how, from a humorous song about a rookie soldier, the unspoken anthem of the US Army was born, with which the young army went on the attack on the "red uniforms"! soldier (colleagues, just a tribute to the story!) drinks
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 20 2020 18: 13 New
        +4
        That is, “dixies” are not citizens of the USA? wassat
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 20 2020 18: 27 New
          +3
          Anton, hello, what's new in life? hi
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 20 2020 18: 39 New
            +5
            This is not life, this is Geril! Every morning, you watch what the new commandant’s office came up with, the “death squads”, as in the capital, until you have entered.
            "If a empire is born,
            Better to live in a remote province, by the sea "(C)
          2. Catfish
            Catfish April 20 2020 19: 13 New
            +5
            Well, I don’t know about the escudo de la morte, the daughter says that they calmly ride around Moscow in a car and they don’t touch them. Yes, even in Ryazan, it seems, there are no atrocities, hairdressing salons have opened again, etc. And here, in the village, there are no “imperial stormtroopers” at all. Well, maybe for now ...
            But before that, I hope we will not live:
          3. Phil77
            Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 17 New
            +4
            Konstantin! From the very beginning, in my * deaf * Biryulev / both / I have not seen a single pedestrian cop! In general, I am silent about the National Guard. laughing There are none of them! I see these guys only in the news, it seems that they were all driven into the city center.
          4. Catfish
            Catfish April 20 2020 19: 21 New
            +2
            Seryozha, so any government, not to mention ours, has the basic principle of life - ZZZ (protection of its own ass), so let these guardsmen sit in the Kremlin and Barvikha, the sense of them in a pandemic is zero integers, zero tenths. The virus is not a demonstrator; you cannot disperse with a club. laughing
          5. Phil77
            Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 23 New
            +2
            Well, about this * virus * I have my own theory. no
          6. Catfish
            Catfish April 20 2020 19: 31 New
            +3
            And you share with the people, interesting all the same. I have all thoughts from an alien attack to the machinations of world imperialism through the jokes of crazy scientist-villains. Now, if it had gone from us, then it would have been clear that this is the usual rzZzvydzhestvo. And so, how many people - so many opinions. laughing
          7. Phil77
            Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 37 New
            +2
            Is it worth it? Many already know and guess!
          8. Catfish
            Catfish April 20 2020 19: 38 New
            +2
            Well, write me in a personal, maybe I don’t know something here. I'm waiting.
          9. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 10: 32 New
            +1
            Well, write me in a personal, maybe I don’t know something here. I'm waiting.

            both of you have already left. With straitjackets. Homeland hears! laughing drinks
          10. Phil77
            Phil77 April 21 2020 10: 40 New
            +2
            Nikolai! And behind Bill, our everything, Gates also drove the carriage ??? Read his interview about universal chipization. what
          11. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 10: 47 New
            +2
            Gates also drove the carriage

            I left. White. With a limousine body. He will take him to his own ten-story villa with rum, a jacuzzi and eighteen-year-old odalisks. It lives like that! request he was already tired of such a life. No, to sit culturally with the men .. on the river .. with a fishing rod and glasses .. crying So no, either invent the Windows by it, or arrange the chipization! laughing
            In our age of technological progress and spacecraft, we will all be digitized soon. And this is not surprising. You click on the QR code, and you get all the information, who shit when someone, who slept with whom, who farted where. So it will be, Sergey! hi
          12. Phil77
            Phil77 April 21 2020 10: 48 New
            +2
            So am I about that!
          13. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 10: 52 New
            +2
            So am I about that!

            And it will be, as in a famous song:
            Here you can play yourself on the trumpet,
            But no matter how you play, you all play "hang up" ....

            Slavery will only take new forms! drinks
    3. Catfish
      Catfish April 21 2020 19: 10 New
      +1
      Here, after all, here it was written in one good book: any plans can be built, and even very good, but all of them can crash into one unexpected obstacle, a machine gun on a hilltop, for example. So let them go ... laughing
      A joke, of course.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 18 New
    +3
    It’s even a shame, why, whom did these famous * Ausweis * make out?!?! fool
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 28 New
    +3
    They designed it so that order was undisciplined, and so that the people knew that the government does not sleep, but also works. laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 33 New
    +2
    Yes, yes, plus solid chipization of the population! In a recent interview, Colonel Kvachkov described the current situation as * command post exercises *.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 36 New
    +3
    I would agree with him if it was only about our country, and so - hell knows, something does not believe in the world conspiracy of Putin, tramp and other companies, they are always biting like crazy dogs.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 24 New
    +3
    A good artist, by the way, is from St. Petersburg. I saw his work on the web. I like.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 27 New
    +3
    I also liked it, because here and squeezed. Do not remember the name of the master? And then I downloaded from somewhere on the left. Nice guy works.
    On the topic "Wash your hands not only before eating."
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 31 New
    +2
    I don’t remember going to send. By the way, he also has a video.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 32 New
    +1
    The video did not come across, and interesting to watch.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2020 18: 35 New
    +2
    Greetings Anton!
    And then! Of course, citizens, but * Yankees * is somehow a broader nickname.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 02 New
      +5
      Sergei! hi
      Try to call a local resident of "Yankee" in Texas ... I have a friend, I accidentally tried it, the ogre was full, the police arrived, explained that on the way to the ridge the ogre saved a yell from the "rybnik" in the "monkey" rushen. "
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 07 New
      +3
      Yes, everything is clear! Texas is generally a separate song! And also Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and others * Dixie *. Well and of course, my beloved Pomississipie! laughing
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 26 New
      +5
      We all grew up on The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin!
      "- Tom, you are so noble!" (WITH)
      ... and the heart melts.
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 28 New
      +4
      And the hut! * Uncle Tom's hut * !!!
    5. Catfish
      Catfish April 20 2020 19: 34 New
      +3
      Captain Thomas Minerid and his immortal Osceola. smile
    6. Phil77
      Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 36 New
      +3
      Horseman, * Headless horseman *! crying
    7. Catfish
      Catfish April 20 2020 19: 42 New
      +5
      They shot it at our time, the eared Vidov doesn’t roll a cowboy at all, although they shot in Cuba, but it turned out as always when they shot "about them". laughing

      The only thing with the real "ColtOhm" instead of the redone "Nagan".
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 35 New
    +4
    No no no! In my case, this is "Tales of Uncle Remus" and a collection of American folklore, "People? Yes!"
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2020 19: 39 New
    +4
    About the rabbit and fox brothers? Once upon a time, a long time ago it was very deep in memory.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 19: 43 New
    +4
    It is the same.
    "-Brother Fox, do what you want with me, just don’t throw me in a thorn bush!" (C)
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 52 New
    +3
    Well, that recalled, for sure, read in childhood. And only already in adulthood I learned that all these "brothers" are all Negro tales about blacks.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 20: 09 New
    +4
    Oh, Uncle Kostya, don’t make me funny! What, in tuches, blacks? Well, purely tales about greks from Privoz !!!
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 20: 16 New
    +4
    He was at Privoz, okromya Jews and Ukrainians did not see any Greeks.
    Being at Privoz, Katsman saw a sign in the form of a clock above the entrance to the shop.
    Has entered:
    “Can you fix my Moser?”
    - We don’t fix the clock.
    - What are you doing?
    - Mi do circumcisions.
    - But what about the clock above the entrance?
    - Did Schaub Wi want the Schaub I hung there ...?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 20: 23 New
    +4
    Oh, Uncle Kostya, the Greeks know how to disguise themselves! You’ll kind of look at a person: a Tatar is a Tatar, but you’ll dig a little deeper, as there is a Greek !!! laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 20: 31 New
    +3
    ... And you look into the soul, an ordinary crocodile.

  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 15: 11 New
    +1
    ... And you look into the soul, an ordinary crocodile.

    ... My dad drank like a barrel, and he died from wine! drinks great movie! good No, the guys knew how to shoot before the war, that neither the film is a masterpiece! I myself sometimes review Peter the Great for fun.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 19: 45 New
    +4
    About Henry, London, Bret Garth, Faulkner ... In childhood, only Meynrid, Cooper did not even pick up.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 11: 08 New
    0
    "Tales of Uncle Remus"

    Are you talking about superethnos, Anton? hi or what about?
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 21 2020 15: 03 New
    +3
    Nikolay, what else? Yesterday I didn’t wait for this topic (or missed? It seems to be not), apparently the Bar is not in shape or our society is completely sick of it. But here it is:

    how could you skip?
    Only on the basis of this subject alone can we safely state the presence of a superethnos on American fields. This is the Monomakh hat in a somewhat simplified version, with a cross and a crescent - a symbol of Great Tartaria.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 15: 23 New
    +3
    This is the Monomakh hat in a somewhat simplified version, with a cross and a crescent - a symbol of Great Tartaria.

    Don’t tell the creator of the superethnos, Mikhail! belay If you remember, three years ago everyone quarreled on the topic of whether it was necessary to give Alaska. hi And if it emerges that such a hat was worn by the Apaches - the brightest representatives of the ancient Slavs - then the dispute will break out with renewed vigor, and the supporters of the Great and Indivisible will demand back not only Alaska, but also a piece of America right across Arizona itself! fellow
    This is still in Polotsk they do not know about the Great Tartary. what The local scientists intended that they had the geographical center of Europe. Can you imagine what a chic occasion to move the horse hordes and haplogroups to the West in order to reunite the fraternal ancient Slavic peoples? wink good (photo - mine, June 2017).
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 21 2020 17: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    horse hordes and haplogroups

    Horse hordes "gallop groups" right up to the Enfilnaya tower and the forest of Bona. laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 17: 16 New
    +1
    Bona forests

    how do you know about the ancient sacred place of portuguese-russians ?! belay By the way, Bonaparte is translated as "partially from the Bona Forest", Bona-part. Partly from there (for daddy), partly from Corsica (for all other relatives). That is, in the person of the donor of the “Napoleon Codex” we have a talented and energetic mestizo, obtained as a result of mixing Portuguese-Rus and Corsican-Slavs. and Corsicans in general from the territory of modern Ukraine, there is even a city there - Korsun. Some of them left with Alaric to conquer Rome, and founded settlements in Corsica. hi
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 21 2020 09: 33 New
    +2
    Anton, and who do the Texans consider themselves Martians?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 21 2020 09: 39 New
    +2
    The traditional nickname for the inhabitants of the southern states is Dixie. To call the southerner "Yankees" is a bad man, bordering on insult. Texans are generally a separate song, the US citizens most struck by small-town separatism.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 21 2020 12: 45 New
    +1
    Texans nickname Texans! Just texas.
    But who’s called Oki, you yourself know! laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 15: 14 New
    +2
    dixie

    A chain of stores "Dixie" Texans contain? laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 21 2020 18: 09 New
    +1
    Yes, on shares with * oki * -klohomites! laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 18: 11 New
    +1
    Yes, on shares with * oki * -klohomites!

    Dashing cowboys together with harsh rednecks!drinks
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 21 2020 18: 16 New
    +1
    But I have nothing against * red-faced *! Such healthy conservatives! They wanted to spit on political correctness and other tolerance!
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 21 2020 18: 18 New
    +1
    They wanted to spit on political correctness and other tolerance!

    and the rights of African Americans will also be spoiled if they are given the will. laughing azigum-harum-geru! fellow
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 21 2020 18: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    azigum-harum-geru!

    Nikolay, I ask for a translation.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 21 2020 21: 17 New
    +1
    Ah !!!!!! So you mean the song Dorivala Coimmi !!!! from the series * Slave Isaur * !!! Lord, and I think that * azigum-harum-geru * !!! fool Now, if: * I started life in the city slums xxx .... * laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 22 2020 10: 23 New
    +1
    So you mean the song Dorivala Coimmi !!!! from the series * Slave Izaura * !!!

    Sergey, I don’t know who the author of the song is, but you will forget the blacks with reed figs! laughing Soviet childhood, and grandmother watches the first Latin American series! And, the song "Kar-Man" was also. By the way, did you know that the "slave Isaur" herself began her film career with a "very funny movie"? wink Shhh, just don’t tell the Sea Cat, he, like a lieutenant, no, he’s already captain Rzhevsky, he will add and embellish everything, licking his lips! drinks
    As there is a well-known joke: on the Abrams tanks there is no automatic loader, but there is still a loader position, which, according to American tradition, will certainly appoint a strong Negro! fellow
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 22 2020 18: 18 New
    +3
    Mykola, you won’t believe it, but from the “Slave Isaur” I saw (partially) only a couple of episodes because I had nowhere to go from the kitchen, and mother-in-law was foolish from these Latin snot. The main character made an extremely repulsive impression on me, I can not imagine who she could excite, acting in a "funny movie". Of all the serials of that time, I only remember our KGB in a Tuxedo, and I would love to review it. Oleg Fomin also shot it splendidly, and the main character is an exceptional beauty there. Not only me, but all cats on our site will lick their lips with lust. smile drinks



    Fomina inserted for exclusively for Russian color, I respect him as an actor and director.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 22 2020 18: 46 New
    +3
    Konstantin, you know about Fomin’s direction, there’s a big question. I remember his * movie * about the White Guards is something !!! With a minus sign. He seems to be called * Gentlemen officers *, if you didn’t look, then you don’t need it! send you a couple more jokes in PM, but ..... They didn’t let me go. There was a four-letter word / foreign !!!! / meaning the process of love. It’s a pity you would laugh. laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 22 2020 19: 21 New
    +3
    .There was a four-letter word /

    Break this word with a hyphen or space - should pass. In general, of course, insanity, in PM, I mean.
    And about Fomin’s direction, I’ll answer with one phrase: “I saw the features of the national hunt”? Well then. good drinks
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 22 2020 19: 24 New
    +2
    Yes, I saw, I saw. Not enthusiastic. You can see the first part once.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 22 2020 20: 31 New
    +1
    You are wrong, a very vital movie, and the characters are recognizable, and situations. laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku April 22 2020 20: 46 New
    +2
    It seems so called * Lord officers *, if you did not look, then it is not necessary!

    I did not like. The film is rather weak, and the worst thing, he took the "Wolfhound" - Bukharov. Disgusting weak artist. Any movie can ruin your game. negative And I respect Fomin. drinks
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 20 2020 17: 39 New
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    So to "p and n ... s with mattresses" can be reached

    But I personally like both this and the other name, especially the first. I read somewhere that a hundred years ago its meaning was approximately as follows: a stranger who is not familiar with the nuances of proper behavior in a particular society, does not want to get to know them and, nevertheless, actively intervenes in the natural course of events. It’s a kind of “in a strange monastery with its own charter,” and loudly and defiantly. Very suitable for modern Americans, and at all levels, from student to president. It hurts they love to teach people the right life, sincerely considering their values ​​as the only correct ones.
    Although, maybe I was so lucky ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 20 2020 18: 26 New
      +1
      Everything is clear with the mattress, but the first "name" is in what language? Purely out of curiosity, I won’t use it anyway, I've seen enough here what category of the public uses this word.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master April 20 2020 19: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        The first "name" is what language?

        I understand that in Greek. I can’t say exactly what this means, but the “wiki” says that at the end of the century before last, they called local Greeks in the northern Black Sea coast. This is where I came across that this word has a broader meaning, in the sense in general “stranger”, kill God, I don’t remember.
        We should ask our Bulgarian colleagues on occasion - they are closer there, they should know better. smile
        But anyway, I sometimes use this word (I don’t like Americans and generally don’t like arrogant people) and I think it is very suitable for many citizens of this country.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 20 2020 19: 48 New
          +2
          ... the wiki says ...

          Well, they’ll write to the “wiki”, read what they sculpt about weapons there - the ears fade.
          ... I think it is very suitable for many citizens of this country.

          Well, it’s a business, I have enough of a textbook mat. smile
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master April 20 2020 20: 30 New
          +2
          Wiki is good at providing links to sources. Actually, this is the main thing in it.
          Quote: Sea Cat
          I have enough of a textbook mat.

          Well, with this, and I have no shortage. laughing
          However, it somehow happened in my head that the mat should be protected and not used in vain. Every American obscenities - a lot of honor. So, spat through gritted teeth - “pindos” - and everything seems to be clear.
          From an intelligent person, a mate in his direction still needs to be earned. smile
          Here, unexpectedly, an aphorism was born. smile
        3. Catfish
          Catfish April 20 2020 20: 33 New
          +2
          From an intelligent person, a mate in his direction still needs to be earned.

          Well said! good drinks
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 20: 46 New
    0
    Albert "Krasnodar", and you are not afraid of the Spaniards revenge that so speak of them
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 20: 55 New
      +1
      The closest Spaniard from me is a few hours of summer, so it’s not very laughing
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 20 2020 17: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    And the Belgians, painting the atrocities of the Spaniards, such "pussies"!

    But what about! The main thing in Congo is not to talk about Belgian humanism.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 20 2020 18: 18 New
      +2
      This is precisely what was meant, and it all began when de Coster wrote his immortal creation, denouncing Spanish geeks.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 20 2020 10: 30 New
    +2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Just the same genocide was in Latin America
    Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa was destroyed also 97% of the population: from 180 thousand in 1520

    The European DISEASES, from which the natives had no immunity, destroyed the people.

    And in North America, in addition to diseases, there was just physical genocide, there are practically no Indians there

    in South America, the Indians appeared an important component of the composition of modern nations (Mexicans, Guatemalans, Paraguayans, Peruvians, etc.). In some countries, the languages ​​of the Indians exist along with Spanish (Quechua - in Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador; Guarani - in Paraguay, where it is the second official language, etc.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 10: 50 New
      +4
      No way
      In South America, the Spaniards just cut them. In addition to disease. In the North, during the wars, the squeezed land, resettlement, and disease also died - but there was no genocide.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 20 2020 11: 11 New
        -2
        Quote: Krasnodar
        In South America, the Spaniards just cut them.

        give specific examples mass cutting million — in that place they cut three million from such-and-such-and-such, in that place — another million, etc.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku April 20 2020 11: 36 New
          +6
          In South America, the Spaniards just cut them.

          give specific examples of mass cutting

          Colleagues, from the genocide in South America, I only remember the genocide of the Chibchi Muiska, which was arranged by Ambrosius Ehinger in search of Eldorado. When someone weakened in a column of shackled Indians, they did not rivet a block on his neck, but immediately chopped off his head. True, "cruel of cruel" Ehinger still ended badly .. Well, there is a way! hi
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 20 2020 13: 34 New
          +4
          For 75 years - from the appearance of the first Europeans in 1519 to 1594 - the population in Central Mexico, the most densely populated area of ​​the American continent, declined by 95%, from 25 million to barely 1 million 300 thousand people.

          Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa, 97% of the population was also destroyed: from 180 thousand in 1520 to 5 thousand in 1626. And so - everywhere in Mexico and Central America. The advent of the Europeans meant the lightning and almost complete disappearance of the indigenous population, who lived and flourished there for many millennia.

          On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.
          By the end of the 16th century, about 200 thousand Spaniards moved to both "India". To Mexico, Central America and further south. By the same time, from 60 to 80 million indigenous inhabitants of these areas were destroyed.

          Methods of the genocide of the Columbian era

          Here we observe striking parallels with the methods of the Nazis. Already in the second expedition of Columbus (1493), the Spaniards used an analogue of Hitler’s sonderkommando to enslave and destroy the local population. Parties of Spanish thugs with dogs trained to kill a man, instruments of torture, gallows and shackles arranged regular punitive expeditions with indispensable mass executions.

          Columbus ordered all residents over 14 years of age to surrender to the Spaniards a thimble of golden sand or 25 pounds of cotton (in areas where there was no gold). Having fulfilled this quota, a copper token with the date of receipt of the last tribute was hung on the neck. The token gave its holder the right to three months of life. Caught without this token or expired, the hands of both hands were chopped off, hung on the victim’s neck and sent to die in their village. Columbus, who had previously been involved in the slave trade along the western coast of Africa, apparently adopted this type of execution from Arab slave traders. During the governorship of Columbus, only in Spain, up to 10 thousand Indians were killed in this way. It was almost impossible to fulfill the established quota. Local residents had to stop growing food and all other things to dig gold. Famine began. The Indians tried to run wherever they look: across the island, into the mountains, even to other islands. But salvation was nowhere. Mothers killed their children before killing themselves. Entire villages resorted to mass suicides, throwing themselves off rocks or taking poison. But death was even more in the hands of the Spaniards.
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 20 2020 13: 45 New
          +4
          Modern Columbus sources describe how Spanish colonists hung, roasted on skewers, burned Indians at bonfires. Children were cut into pieces for feeding dogs. And this despite the fact that at first the tainos did not show the Spaniards any resistance. “The Spaniards pledged who could cut a man in two with one blow or chop off his head, or they would rip open their bellies. They would tear babies off their mother’s chest and break their heads on stones ... They strung other children on their long swords along with their mothers and everyone who stood before them. " None of the SS men on the Eastern Front could be demanded more zeal, Ward Churchill rightly observes. We add that the Spaniards established the rule that for one murdered Christian, they will kill one hundred Indians. The Nazis did not have to invent anything. They only had to copy.
    2. ratveg
      ratveg April 20 2020 12: 51 New
      +5
      I do not agree with you about the Indian genocide in the United States. There are more than 6 million Indians there now. In California, you can probably pull the ears to the genocide. And in other places there have been separate acts of extermination of civilians (Sand Creek, Baker massacre, etc.). Together, less than a thousand will be killed there (I don’t think of California) .It could have been genocide, only a small and poorly trained U.S. army of that time could not do it. Screaming drunks from saloons and any declassed element did not fit this role well. In California it happened because the local aborigines were extremely backward and peace-loving. They ran naked, lived in pits. That's what happened. And with the same Apaches or Iroquois, the Mexicans also sold captive Apaches into slavery or shot them. For example, after the massacre in Tre Los Castillos of 1879. Or the 1851 massacre described by the author of a car. 16 children and women were then sold into slavery. American Apache prisoners taught crafts and literacy, such as the nephew of Jeronimo Jason Betcinez, who fought against whites, shot at soldiers, and was subsequently taken prisoner. he was taught captivity to read and write, given a profession. He then
      He worked as a steelworker in a factory. He wrote an interesting and truthful book I Fought with Geronimo. Mexicans would have killed him.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 20 2020 17: 53 New
        +5
        Comrade ratveg, thank you from the Yankees, and the Spaniards invite you to a duel
  • ratveg
    ratveg April 20 2020 12: 32 New
    +5
    These figures need to be taken with great caution. No censuses were carried out. The same Las Casas, well-intentioned, composing a note to the King of Spain, tens of times exaggerated the number of Indians of Cuba and Haiti. And inflated the number of killed Indians many times. to draw the attention of those in power to the real problems of exploitation and real atrocities.
  • Engineer
    Engineer April 20 2020 15: 47 New
    +5
    On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.

    Data is inflated at times, if not an order of magnitude
    For comparison, the Estimation of the population of Germany is 1500-11 million. 1600 15 million.
    Spain the end of the 16th century - 8-8.5 million people. This is Spain with its fertile climate.
    Peru, in principle, does not feed so many people at the then level of development. It is enough to visit the foothills of the Andes and the Nazca desert to see for yourself. This is a bad territory for the development of civilizations.. The Incas jumped above their heads, but do not exaggerate the scale of Tauantinsuyu
    About Chile, with its pampas, Atacama desert and Araucans in the absence of highly developed material cultures, it is not even funny.

    There was genocide in South America. But there was no total destruction. Most Indians became a victim of disease as already written here ..
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 38 New
      +1
      They slaughtered those whom they got, and they got mainly in the overseas territories.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer April 20 2020 18: 09 New
        +2
        It was different, but on the whole it wasn’t such that everyone was killed. Read about Potos, the foundation of a pan-European economy for 200 years. There were encomiands. At the end of the 16th century, 75 thousand Indians lived in Cusco and its environs (comparable to Moscow and its environs) who paid 380 thousand pesos of taxes (Moscow tsars would have fallen ill with envy)
        Who needs to kill a chicken laying silver eggs?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 20 2020 18: 17 New
          0
          This is at a later stage - we are talking about the beginning of the conquest and the atrocious atrocities of the recently ended war with the Moors of the conquistadors
          1. Engineer
            Engineer April 20 2020 18: 19 New
            +2
            Good, but in any case, millions are cut out this is not serious.
            Las Casas 10 million for one Hispaniola counted but it is the best whistle
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 20 2020 18: 23 New
              +1
              I agree - it means they were cut out and died from diseases, incl. recorded in white.
              1. Engineer
                Engineer April 20 2020 18: 29 New
                +3
                About the disease.
                When the Spaniards moved from the territory of the Aztecs to the north, they did not meet a soul for hundreds of kilometers. Entire tribes died out of smallpox without even seeing a white man.
                The main victims were sometimes during the period of conquest, sometimes during the period of meaningful squeezing of juice from the provinces. In Potosi, Indians perished for generations from depletion in mines, mercury poisoning, and accidents. The number of victims was supposed to be hundreds of times higher than the victims in the conquest of Peru itself. It's just that their death was distributed in time and was not accompanied by fanaticism, so this is rarely remembered. This is not genocide in the strict sense, but it is not easier for the Indians.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 20 2020 18: 35 New
                  +2
                  Here we can argue with the terminology - the word genocide was coined by the Zionist Lemkin (EMNIP), describing the tragedy of the Ottoman Empire during the years of WWII - but in principle, what the Spaniards did is a massacre on racial grounds
                2. Engineer
                  Engineer April 20 2020 18: 45 New
                  +2
                  The massacre was definitely. On what grounds I'm not sure. Maybe on a racial basis. But you need to remember that in each case the conquistadors are several hundred scumbags. They physically cannot kill hundreds of thousands. Primary atrocities are replaced by the advent of the royal administration. All Indians are counted, attached to the ground, taxed. Priests fulfill the standards for saving souls as they can, by conducting mass baptisms, and the conquistadors go on.
                  This is how civilization goes.
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 20 2020 20: 59 New
                  +3
                  Let's just say - they cut them in the thousands, infected tens of thousands, drove them away and brought hundreds to death by starvation. Then - yes, everything settled down, and at a later stage, Indian and African compasses became brothers in the fight against the mother country, then they received equal rights)).
                4. Engineer
                  Engineer April 20 2020 21: 12 New
                  +1
                  Close to my opinion. )
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 20 2020 16: 44 New
    +4
    Quote: Krasnodar
    And then worse. The atrocities of the Spaniards were irrational - sadism for the sake of sadism.

    They had rational atrocities - the Spaniards pumped money out of the colonies. At any cost.
    The same import of slaves from Africa was invented and started by the Spaniards. And they argued that the local population, weak and small, could not work like the Negroes. They even drew humanism to this - they say, this is done to preserve the remnants of the local population.
    And the hands for not fulfilling the plan for harvesting cut even in the twentieth century - the Belgians in the Congo.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 17: 40 New
      +2
      Chop the child to feed the dogs - like that ... where is rationalism?
    2. Engineer
      Engineer April 20 2020 18: 17 New
      +2
      The same import of slaves from Africa was invented and started by the Spaniards.

      The Portuguese still
  • ratveg
    ratveg April 20 2020 12: 27 New
    +5
    According to estimates by the Census Bureau, 2020 million 6 thousand Indians lived in the United States for 790. The largest number of Indians in Oklahoma is 280638 people or 7 percent of the state’s population. In Alaska, 103 thousand Indians. In New Mexico, 183 thousand. In Arizona, 271 thousand. of course very little. In Latin America, if you have a great-grandfather white, then they will take you for white. And in the USA it’s very confusing. On the one hand, the percentages of Indian blood are calculated, they’ll drive away any stray from the freebie (however, benefits). And on the other hand, judging by photo, many Indians do not differ from white in appearance. Or even how blacks look
  • rich
    rich April 20 2020 08: 09 New
    +8
    Goiko Mitich of course our main Indian

    He will turn 80 in June. But the actor still does not depart from the role of the Indians. In Berlin, he still plays the Indian in the theatrical production of "Flight over the Cuckoo's Nest." And in 2016, another film was released where he plays the old leader Inchu-chun: “Winnetou and Old Shatterhand” (Winnetou & Old Shatterhand)
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 20 2020 06: 24 New
    +9
    * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, good morning and thank you for the next article on a * Indian * topic!
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 06: 34 New
      +7
      And good morning to you!
      Quote: Phil77
      * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
      Pulled from my second material. Here it is the age of informatization!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 April 20 2020 08: 20 New
        +5
        Everything is simpler, Vyacheslav Olegovich! I watched the film * Conspiracy Theory * and there Mel Gibson uttered a phrase about love, comparing it with a flight from a skyscraper with a scream * Jeronimo !!!! *. Well, I wondered what that word means. So! laughing hi
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 20 2020 14: 15 New
          +2
          Seryoga, hello! hi
          "Everything is not what it seems, and not vice versa." - from there. So the question arises: What to believe? And then purely in Russian - "What to do?" and "Who is to blame?" laughing
      2. Freeman
        Freeman April 20 2020 21: 22 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        And good morning to you!
        Quote: Phil77
        * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
        Pulled from my second material. Here is the age of informatization!


        Exactly. From this it was necessary to begin a series of articles, and then to clarify - "who, what, and how." hi
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 20 2020 07: 05 New
    +7
    Here they are human destinies: first the horror of the Mexicans, and then the sale of their photographs.

    You won’t fight Time.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 07: 50 New
    +8
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    The personality and name of the hero of the article was widely known outside the United States, even several decades after his death.
    For example, I first read about Jeronimo in one of the books of J. Darrel, oddly enough.
  • Borz
    Borz April 20 2020 08: 50 New
    +4
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, for the article. As always interesting and informative
  • Operator
    Operator April 20 2020 08: 54 New
    +6
    From the point of view of the Indians of the 19th century who lived under the tribal system, there was no genocide of the Indians: they simply came new tribes (pale-faced) and began to do what was supposed by tribal morality - to clear the land of old tribes.

    Modern self-awareness (with the recognition of tribal showdowns as genocide) appeared among the Indians only after mastering such concepts as sovereignty, state, law, humanity, etc.

    Projecting the psychology of Europeans on 19th-century Indians is a typical mistake of their fans.
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok April 20 2020 10: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Operator
      From the point of view of the Indians of the 19th century who lived under the tribal system, there was no genocide of the Indians: they simply came new tribes (pale-faced) and began to do what was supposed by tribal morality - to clear the land of old tribes.

      Modern self-awareness (with the recognition of tribal showdowns as genocide) appeared among the Indians only after mastering such concepts as sovereignty, state, law, humanity, etc.

      Projecting the psychology of Europeans on 19th-century Indians is a typical mistake of their fans.

      Unfortunately, the whole modern world suffers from such "projection". How can one judge the morality of the people of the Middle Ages or the early dynasties of the pharaohs, from the point of view of, for example, Greta Tunberg ?!
    2. vladcub
      vladcub April 20 2020 18: 17 New
      +3
      White taught on his own head, and now disentangle
  • ratveg
    ratveg April 20 2020 13: 06 New
    +6
    In his biography, by the way, Jeronimo wrote a lot of “untruths”, to put it mildly. I quote: “I grew up as the fourth child in the family, and all of our parents had eight - four boys and four girls.” No. He had one sister, 1 his years are older. All the rest are the grandchildren of Mako (grandfather Jeronimo) and his second wife. That is, his cousins.
    2. I quote: “I was born in Arizona, near the Nodoyon canyon, in June 1829.” In fact, Jeronimo was born in 1823. As Utley writes in his biography Geronimo: “His memory— or his interpreter— played him false. The year 1823 fits with other
    known events, and the New Mexico site his own description of the country. "Trapp and Sweeney and Opler write about this.

    3. The date and chronology of events are mixed up. Jeronimo writes: “In the summer of 1858, being at peace with all Mexican settlements and neighboring Native American tribes, we went south to Old Mexico to engage in trade ..... Once, returning to camp in the afternoon, we found only a few women and children who told us that Mexicans from another village visited here, they killed the guard, seized horses and weapons, destroyed all our supplies and killed many women and children ..... And then I found out that my whole family died: an elderly mother, a young wife, and three children. "
    After that, Geronimo decided to take revenge: "In the summer of 1859, almost a year after the massacre at Casca, all three Apache tribes gathered on the Mexican border to set foot on the warpath."

    There is almost all distortion. The fact is that since the end of the 1830s, the Chiricahua had been at war with Mexico. They fought with some states, and sold prey in others. In January 1851, the Chiricahua organized another predatory expedition to Sonora. 150 warriors were led by Mangas Coloradas , with him was 28-year-old Geronimo (as a warrior), Cochiz and Hu. At that time they drove the loot of the farm all the way to Hermosillo, and then loaded with booty they went home. were ambushed in Pozo Hediondo (Smelly Sources). This is exactly the battle in which Geronimo: “Drenched in the blood of enemies, with arms conquered, I stood on the battlefield, reveling in the joy of victory and fair retribution.” As Geronimo says: “I have never been a leader before - this honor was given to me because I suffered more than others, and I was eager to justify such a high confidence.” He lies. The fight was led by Mangas Coloradas. That battle was 100 Mexican soldiers killed and 20 injured. All officers killed or wounded. The Apaches decided to sell the looted loot in the city of Hanos (Chihuahua). They were joined by children and women, all together went to this town. On March 1851, 26 soldiers (including Jeronimo) drank the loot in the taverns of Hanos. A camp with women and children without any the guard was attacked by 46 soldiers of Colonel Carrasco who came from Sonora. As a result of the attack, 5 Apaches were killed and 1851 (400 men 21 women and 62 children) were captured and later sold into slavery. Drunk soldiers returned to the site of the massacre and here Jeronimo swore revenge on the Mexicans. These events are well documented and documented. How the Apaches drank in the taverns of Hanos, while their families killed the soldiers bitterly writes nephew Jeronimo Jason Betcinez. Betcinez himself participated in battles with soldiers and was later captured in prison Florida. On page 6, in the book “I Fought Together with Jeronimo,” Betzinez writes: “When Goiakla and his friends returned from a booze in Hanos, they discovered the mutilated bodies of their family members.” Swinny Pishe t about this episode in the article “'I Had Lost All': Geronimo and the Carrasco Massacre of 4,” and in the book Mangas Coloradas on pages 52-17. Atley writes about this in Jeronimo’s book in Chapter 1851, “Battle and Massacre”
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 14: 56 New
      +5
      A very good addition. Many thanks!
      1. ratveg
        ratveg April 21 2020 09: 21 New
        +2
        Thank you! Your article, by the way, is competently and interestingly written. What is rare now. Jeronimo intentionally note some facts in the biography. He was a prisoner of war at the time of writing. Fate was hanging by a thread, Arizona residents demanded that the president hang him. So life forced me to dictate the right words.
        1. kalibr
          April 21 2020 09: 51 New
          +5
          Quote: ratveg
          So life made me dictate the right words.

          It often happens in life. Not only with captive Indians, but with illustrious marshals.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 14: 19 New
    +6
    Hello, friends! hi All greetings and best wishes! drinks
    Thanks Olegovich for another Native American story. By the way, now in the States, every Indian reservation has a tax-free casino. Can I live?
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 14: 53 New
      +5
      In general, these are offshore zones! And + subsidies from the state.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 14: 58 New
      +4
      So the Seminole tribe bought casino grandmothers the famous chain of Hard Rock cafe sets - almost for lard tanks, and the Indians significantly expanded their business - to Hard Rock hotels and Casinos good
      1. kalibr
        April 20 2020 15: 05 New
        +5
        Here I am about the same thing, so poor things suffer ...
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 20 2020 14: 35 New
    +4
    Quote: Krasnodar
    No way
    In South America, the Spaniards just cut them. In addition to disease. In the North, during the wars, the squeezed land, resettlement, and disease also died - but there was no genocide.

    And why then in South America the descendants of mixed marriages prevail, and even the Indians? Perhaps the Spaniards, in order to lime the Indians, entered into mixed marriages? A kind of genocide.
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 14: 43 New
      +4
      Exactly, Vladislav! Those who were baptized and walked hand in hand with the Spaniards lived well. It was bad for those who wanted to preserve the faith of their fathers!
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 20 2020 15: 00 New
        +3
        First of all, it was bad for those who refused to give up the earth and dig gold. Then yes - the Inquisition. Well, then the fall of the Spanish Empire, the struggle for the independence of the settlers from the metropolis and, as a result, marriages with the Indians and descendants of African slaves.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 46 New
          +3
          Krasnodar, now I believe that you read V. And. Lenin, and then thought that for the Pontus said to show off.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub April 20 2020 17: 41 New
        +3
        V.O., and it is always like this: that the Indians converted to Catholicism, that the Jews adopted Christianity, that the Bulgarian "help." Some of them convinced changed their faith, and many on the principle: "Paris is worth the Mass."
        What beliefs have changed faith can be respected, and who for the sake of Paris, thank you, I can not respect them.
        Apart are such as: "Venita" - the sufferers: they tried to try on both white and Indians
        1. kalibr
          April 20 2020 18: 02 New
          +3
          Quote: vladcub
          Apart are such as: "Venita" - the sufferers: they tried to try on both white and Indians

          Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. But in relation to others ... Weak people! Yes, and the prophet Ecclesiastes said: a living dog is better than a dead lion. Although even better said by the Japanese, what bends can then straighten up!
      3. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich April 20 2020 20: 29 New
        +4
        What is the faith of the fathers? The Temple of Talok and Huitzilopochtli - how many human hearts were pulled out of living people there? Starting from the 17th century and continuing in the 18th and 19th centuries, Apaches and Comanches ravaged the entire north of Mexico. The Spaniards (when Mexico was a Spanish colony) paid tribute to the Indians from the north, the Independent and Independent Mexico was too poor and did not give “Comanches” and Apaches — Indians with groups of up to 800 “sabers” approached Mexico City for 100-150 km. Mexican Texas was ravaged and the Yankees came there.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub April 21 2020 09: 59 New
          +1
          Kitten, I have not read about this. These are ready-made stories for films or novels. Perhaps you know something about this event?
          1. cat Rusich
            cat Rusich April 21 2020 19: 30 New
            +1
            Svyatoslav what are you asking - about the beliefs of the Aztecs? or about the raids of the Indians in Mexico? I will not argue about the sacrifices of the Aztec priests - the sacrifices were a fact, but the number of sacrifices is a controversial figure and I do not call it. About the Comanche and Apache raids on Mexico is also a known fact, you can read the article "Unknown War: How the Indians put Mexico on the brink of disaster" on warhed.su. You can read the novels - “Montezuma's Daughter” G. R. Haggard and “White Leader” Mine Read, about the Apache read “Shalako” Luis Lamour, you will find and read other books and films (see) yourself.
  • Looking for
    Looking for April 20 2020 15: 00 New
    -4
    Ours then shot (Shpakovsky) and ripened here. !!! Well on the go cuts off the outsole.
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 15: 03 New
      +5
      I look forward to hearing from you, Alexander. But, by the way, this will come down. The main thing is that the click is.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 20 2020 17: 20 New
        +4
        It is said
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 17: 11 New
    +3
    "the broad-blade, like sikirs, were delivered to the Indians by the Spaniards. And they" happened and the Spaniards thanked them "
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 18: 03 New
      +3
      Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 20 2020 19: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.

        So it still happens all the time laughing
      2. Freeman
        Freeman April 20 2020 21: 36 New
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.


        Well, it’s direct, like selling the S-400 complexes to the Turks.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 20 2020 17: 19 New
    +3
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: vladcub
    most whites could get along with the Indians,

    don't think: " Bolivar can't stand two " (C)

    The land of the White Indians was much more necessary than the Indians on them, they were competitors hi

    And that was
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 20 2020 17: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: kalibr
    Here I am about the same thing, so poor things suffer ...

    Just learn the "pale-faced brothers."
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 18: 07 New
      +2
      Svyatoslav! You just ... "beg" for me to advise you in a friendly way to visit the author website. today and ... read my novel "People and Weapons" there. Unless you have already done this. "Sturgeon of the very first freshness"! You will learn a lot about Indians.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 20 2020 18: 14 New
        +2
        V.O., I remember you Astra offered his novel. Interesting she liked him?
        1. kalibr
          April 20 2020 18: 29 New
          +3
          Svyatoslav! Alas, I strongly suspect that she just did not download it ... And you yourself can ask her why?
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 20 2020 18: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    It happens that you look at how frenzied they “beat” each other even become scared.

    Duck, damn it, Svyatoslav, it’s scary to go to some discussion threads! drinks here we have a corner of the world. Just without a peace pipe laughing

    And don’t say: everyone is so white and fluffy, and then we continue the civil war
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    First, they “broke in” the “white and fluffy” Incas, then - to the same “cute” Spaniards.

    I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

    Angel Della Valle, the picture depicts the return of the "loving araucans" from the raid. The woman, apparently - is white ... angry

    Quote: kalibr
    Savages are savages!

    I'm afraid that when the Spaniards returned from similar raids, then a similar girl lay across the horse, but red !!! So that....?

    Her fate will be a little better, but in any case, the woman who fell into the hands of the enemy is unhappy
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.

    Business and nothing personal?
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 19: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: Astra wild
      Business and nothing personal?

      Of course. Many do not look beyond the nose.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 20 2020 18: 58 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    in general

    Are you about Sciclgruber?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 20 2020 20: 02 New
      0
      And it’s possible the whole phrase, I don’t remember where I wrote it
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild April 20 2020 21: 28 New
        +1
        Albert, excuse me, but here is a technical mistake, I wrote an answer to your comment: "son of uncle and niece after an easy walk through Europe." I’m in a hurry, what to do 21 in a hurry, but the technique is even more in a hurry
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 20 2020 21: 36 New
          0
          Well yes - this is the fruit of incest.
  • cat Rusich
    cat Rusich April 20 2020 21: 41 New
    +1
    Of all the "literary Apaches," I like Tats-a-das-ah-go - The Quick Killer, from the book "Shalako" by Luis Lamour.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 21 2020 19: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    and her fate is also a little enviable.

    savages eat savages! That says it all! hi

    Alas you can not argue