Chief Jeronimo: Fierce Enemy of White Mexicans

221

Photograph by Camillus Sidney, 1849-1901. Library of Congress Jeronimo - with a long rifle in his hands on the right

Before judging the flaws of other people, look at the traces of their moccasins.
Aphorism of the American Indians


Native American War. Among the Indian leaders who fought with the US Army, the name of the leader Jeronimo (in the Meskalero-Chiricauan dialect of the Apache Goatlai, “The One Who Yawns”) is one of the first. He was born in June 1829, and died on February 17, 1909. The legendary leader of the Chiricahua Apache, he led the fight against the invasion of whites in the lands of his tribe for 25 years, and only in 1886 was forced to surrender to the American army.



Chief Jeronimo: Fierce Enemy of White Mexicans
Shirt Apaches. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

It is believed that he was an outstanding leader and healer of the Bedochka tribal group, among whom he was born and which belonged to the Apache tribe. From 1850 to 1886, Jeronimo, along with three Indians of the Apache Chirikaua-Chihende, Tsokanende and Nedhi, carried out numerous raids against the Mexican and American military in the northern Mexican states of Chihuahua and Sonora and in the southwestern American territories of New Mexico and Arizona. Jeronimo’s raids and related hostilities were part of a long conflict between the Apaches and the United States, which began immediately after the end of the war with Mexico in 1848.


Apache Handbag for little things. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

We note right away that the concept of leader among the Indians is not exactly what the “leader" of civilized countries is. Often, all his power rested only on one authority, and he could advise his fellow tribesmen, but not order. In addition, there were usually two leaders! Peacetime and war. And then the tribe subordinated to the leader of peace, and only men to the military. Jeronimo was precisely the military leader (although he was also a healer), and even if he was well known, he was not the leader of the whole Chirikaua tribe or Bedonkhe. But because of his fame and fortune, he could call warriors to himself at any moment, and 30-50 Apaches immediately appeared to him. He fought with the whites when he was sure of victory, but he did not grieve when they turned out to be stronger.


Apache Arizona. Mace National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

From 1876 to 1886, he surrendered three times to pale-faced and went to live on a Apache reservation in Arizona. But then he got bored there, and he again went on the warpath. He was caught again, he again “raised his hands up”, promised to “bury the tomahawk of war”, but then he was digging it out again! It was only in 1886, after the persecution in northern Mexico by U.S. troops that followed his third escape from the reservation in 1885, that Jeronimo surrendered for the last time. And not to anyone, but to Lieutenant Charles Gatewood, a graduate of West Point, who ... spoke the Apache language, and whom Jeronimo respected very much when he met him several years earlier. He handed over the captive to General Nelson Miles, who treated Jeronimo as a prisoner of war and first transferred him to Fort Bowie, and then, along with 27 other Apaches, sent him to the rest of the Chiricahua tribe, who had previously been relocated to Florida.


Apache Headdress. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

With Jeronimo as a prisoner, the United States made him a good PR, attracting him to participate in various events. For the government, this was proof of his success in pacifying the Indians, but Jeronimo was also very favorable to such an attitude, since he himself earned a lot on this. In 1898, Jeronimo was brought to the Trans-Mississippi International Exhibition in Omaha, Nebraska. After her, he became a frequent visitor to fairs, exhibitions and other social events. He earned money by selling his photographs, as well as bows, arrows, buttons from his shirt, and even a hat made by him. In 1904, he participated in the World Exposition in St. Louis, Missouri, where he sold souvenirs and his own photographs. In 1905, the Department of Indian Affairs invited him to participate in the inaugural parade of President Theodore Roosevelt. Actually, how did you invite? He simply took it and “presented” it, because it was considered a prisoner of war, that is, it was, as it were, the property of the military authorities of the US government. However, his advantages were not infringed upon. For example, in Texas, he even participated in a staged bison hunt, where he shot one bison, and although the soldiers accompanied him at all such events, they did not bother him with their supervision. By the way, the organizers of this hunt did not know that neither the people of Jeronimo nor he himself were bison hunters. By the way, being a participant in the inaugural celebrations, Jeronimo appealed to the president with a request to return his tribe back to Arizona, to the land of his ancestors, but he refused.


Apache A hat trimmed with a pattern of beads. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

His life ended in early 1909. Jeronimo, 79, fell off his horse and lay on the cold ground until morning, and three days later, on February 17, 1909, he died of pneumonia in Fort Sill, where he was buried in a local cemetery among other captured Apache Indians.


Jeronimo. "One who yawns." US National Archives

Such, in general terms, is the fate of this wonderful man of his own, which we will now examine in more detail. To begin with, who are these same Apaches, whose leader was Jeronimo and how many of them there were.

So Apache is a collective term for several culturally close groups of Native Americans hailing from the southwestern United States. Currently, these include Western Apaches, Chirikaua, Mescalero (who was the leader of Winnetu in the works of Karl May), hikarilla, Lipan, and lowland Apaches (which were previously called Kayova Apaches).


Kiowa. Moccasin leggings. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

For decades, the ongoing conflict between Mexican Apaches and Apaches living in the United States has been an integral part of their lifestyle, which they presented as a kind of "economic venture." The Indians attacked the white settlers to steal livestock and other prey, and also captured them for ransom or killed, sometimes with the help of torture. Mexicans and Americans retaliated, which were no less brutal and very rarely confined to identifying the true initiators of these raids. Such "strikes" and "counterattacks" fueled the flames of a fierce war for many years. This war rolled like a tennis ball between Apaches and Mexicans, and later between Apaches and Americans. By this way, by the way, Jeronimo himself lost his whole family when, on March 5, 1851, a detachment of 400 Mexican soldiers from the state of Sonora, under the command of Colonel Jose Maria Carrasco, attacked the camp of Jeronimo. It so happened that just at that time, most men went to the nearest city ... to trade, so there was no one to defend themselves. Many women and children were killed, including a wife, three children and mother Jeronimo. According to Native American concepts, such revenge was unfair and, in turn, required revenge!


Apache shield. National Museum of the American Indian, Washington

That is why all the time from 1850 to 1886, Jeronimo not only lived in a war, like many of his other tribesmen, he also sought to avenge the killing of his family by Mexican soldiers, set a kind of record of cruelty for all this time, which was unparalleled in any from the Indian leaders of his contemporaries. The American captured by him could still hope for salvation. In this case, the Mexicans would have suffered a painful death. Jeronimo himself described it this way:

“One late evening, when we were returning from the city, we were met by several women and children who told us that Mexican troops from some other city attacked our camp, killed all the men, captured all our ponies, captured our weapon, destroyed our supplies and killed many of our women and children. We quickly split up, hiding as best we could before dark, and when it became dark we gathered at the appointed meeting place - in the thickets by the river. “We quietly crept into our camp one by one, put out the sentries, and when all of our dead were counted, I saw that among them were my old mother, my young wife, and three of my young children.”



The main apache of the planet is Pierre Bryce as the leader of Winneth. What a tomahawk he has here - just shine! But just these, broad-blade, like axes, were delivered by the Spaniards to the Indians. And they themselves made samples similar to them

The leader of the tribe to which Jeronimo belonged, Mangas Coloradas (in Spanish, Red Sleeves), sent him to the Cochiz tribe for help in order to take revenge on the Mexicans. It was from this time that the name Jeronimo became famous, because he, ignoring the deadly hail of bullets that Mexicans showered with Apaches, attacked Mexican soldiers with a knife and cut his throat with the first blow, and removed the scalp with the second. Some believe that this is how his nickname Jeronimo was born, as Mexican soldiers turned to his holy patron Jerome (“Jeronimo!”) In this way, asking him for help. Others attribute this to the incorrect pronunciation of his name by Mexican soldiers.


A real shirt of Meskaler’s Apaches. National Museum of the American Indians, Washington)

In his autobiography, published in 1905, there were such lines relating to his attitude to the Mexicans:

“I killed a lot of Mexicans, I don’t know how many, because I often didn’t count them. Some of them were not worth recounting. A lot of time has passed since then, but I still don't like Mexicans. With me they were always insidious and vicious. "



And ... the future (and still very young!) Indian of all times and peoples Goyko Mitich. Still with Pierre Bryce's assistants

As for the Chiricahua tribe, here many had mixed feelings for Jeronimo. On the one hand, he was respected as an experienced military leader, but many Apaches did not like him, mainly because he placed his personal revenge above tribal interests. Nevertheless, the Apache people were awestruck before the “strength” of Jeronimo, which he repeatedly demonstrated. These abilities clearly indicated to them that Jeronimo had supernatural abilities that he could use for the benefit of people or to the detriment. It was said about him that Jeronimo was able to foresee the events that then occurred in the future. He also had the ability to heal other people, which for the Apaches was a clear indication of his close connection with the spirits. It is clear that none of them simply dared to oppose such a person!

To be continued ...
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

221 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    April 20 2020 05: 03
    Goiko Mitich is of course our main Indian. Interestingly, the Americans, the United States, were quite loyal to the Indians. In South America, the Indians were quite actively destroyed. Actually, we did not have the most cruel conditions, it seems that we destroyed the Russians more than the conquered peoples.
    1. +5
      April 20 2020 06: 36
      it’s okay to invent how the Spaniards in South America treated the Indians much better than the Anglo-Saxons, there was no slavery for the locals, there were no planned genocides, in fact now there are not a small number of inhabitants of South America are purebred descendants of the Aborigines, as an example, the former ousted president of Bolivia, Evo Morales, or with mixtures of Indians and whites, that is, there are not many pure white-skinned descendants of the Spaniards and Portuguese, and in the United States in the region of 1 million local Aborigines left at the moment, Canada had a slightly better attitude towards Aborigines
      1. 0
        April 20 2020 07: 58
        Quote: Graz
        , in fact, now not a small number of residents of the United States are purebred descendants of the aborigines,

        Moreover, in many countries of South America they make up the majority of the population.

        When the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America was celebrated. he was celebrated only North America and the only one in South America, Argentina. ALL!

        other countries, no! Monuments to Columbus were stoned and spat on ...
        1. +6
          April 20 2020 08: 09
          Andrew! hi
          Monuments to Columbus were stoned and spat on ...
          In my opinion, a very negative example, indicating the level of culture and intelligence of the protesters.
          1. +3
            April 20 2020 08: 16
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            In my opinion, a very negative example, indicating the level of culture and intelligence of the protesters.

            hello Anton hi

            They can be understood: the "discovery" of America brought them innumerable calamities, the demolition of their civilization, illness and loss ...
            1. +5
              April 20 2020 08: 27
              I think that I will never be able to understand the motives of such a contingent. Unfortunately, in 1992 I did not have the opportunity to monitor events, for I served urgently.
        2. +6
          April 20 2020 09: 04
          the only one in South America, Argentina.
          Maybe because the Araucanians didn't care who to fight? First, they "broke in" the "white and fluffy" Incas, then - the same "cute" Spaniards.
          1. +8
            April 20 2020 10: 03
            First, they "broke in" the "white and fluffy" Incas, then - the same "cute" Spaniards.

            I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

            Angel Della Valle, the painting depicts the return of the "arch-loving Araucan" from the raid. The woman, apparently, is white ... angry
            1. +4
              April 20 2020 10: 20
              Savages are savages!
              1. +6
                April 20 2020 10: 22
                Savages are savages!

                Well, yes ... that's right, Vyacheslav Olegovich ... the difference of cultures! request
                1. +7
                  April 20 2020 15: 17
                  Hi Nikolay!
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  the difference of cultures!

                  A woman is a legitimate trophy, and it’s always useful in the household! With any culture. laughing
                  1. +3
                    April 20 2020 15: 44
                    A woman is a legitimate trophy, and it’s always useful in the household! With any culture.

                    This is if for love, Sergey! wink And the rest is wildness. Although any troubled times expose such savagery ... That people become worse than animals ... No. or maybe we just thought up some rules for a peaceful life, but in general it’s not so? what give one to the gun, do not give to the other, but to the one who with the gun (power, strength, crowd of associates - insert the right one) let me do what he wants ... He will become a degenerate! request ek I was "philosophized" ..
                    1. +3
                      April 20 2020 16: 37
                      "The rifle gives rise to power" by Mao Zedong
                      1. +3
                        April 20 2020 16: 38
                        "The rifle gives rise to power" by Mao Zedong

                        "The one with the gun is right!" (Dm. "Goblin" Tufts, "The Lord of the Rings"). Yes
              2. +6
                April 20 2020 16: 27
                Quote: Pan Kohanku
                First, they "broke in" the "white and fluffy" Incas, then - the same "cute" Spaniards.

                I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

                Angel Della Valle, the painting depicts the return of the "arch-loving Araucan" from the raid. The woman, apparently, is white ... angry

                Quote: kalibr
                Savages are savages!

                I'm afraid that when the Spaniards returned from similar raids, then a similar girl lay across the horse, but red !!! So that....?
                1. +1
                  10 June 2020 09: 52
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  then across the horse lay a similar girl, but red !!!
                  steamed from the bath. laughing
                  1. +1
                    10 June 2020 14: 35
                    Quote: akunin
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    then across the horse lay a similar girl, but red !!!
                    steamed from the bath. laughing

                    Then from the saloon!
            2. +1
              April 20 2020 18: 38
              “a woman, apparently white” and unhappy: most likely, the Indians killed her loved ones in front of her eyes, and her fate is also not enviable. It is good if its owner "husband" is a delicate person in his own way, but if a sadist or in a "circle"?
              1. -1
                April 21 2020 09: 12
                and her fate is also a little enviable.

                savages eat savages! That says it all! hi
          2. -1
            April 20 2020 10: 36
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            the only one in South America, Argentina.
            Maybe because the Araucans didn’t care with whom to fight?

            everything is simpler: there are most of all descendants of colonial settlers (South Europeans), as well as descendants from mixed marriages with Indians
        3. +5
          April 20 2020 13: 23
          Columbus himself was a significant person, but it was not his fault that there were many bastards among whites.
          You know, I just remembered the movie: "Prairie" there at the end of the film, the commander of the caravan of white settlers says to Nat Lamp: "I thought that whites could get along with the Indians." It seems to me that the film successfully showed the tragedy of the situation: most of the whites could well get along with the Indians, but among them there was the Bush family, and for the sake of profit they don't care who to kill: a white or an Indian
          1. +1
            April 20 2020 13: 35
            Quote: vladcub
            most whites could get along with the Indians,

            I don't think: " Bolivar will not stand two " (C)

            The land of the White Indians was much more necessary than the Indians on them, they were competitors hi
          2. +4
            April 20 2020 16: 38
            Quote: vladcub
            but among them was the Bush family

            There will always be a Bush family!
      2. +4
        April 20 2020 08: 38
        Just the same genocide was in Latin America
        Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa, 97% of the population was also destroyed: from 180 thousand in 1520 to 5 thousand in 1626. And so - everywhere in Mexico and Central America. The advent of the Europeans meant the lightning and almost complete disappearance of the indigenous population, who lived and flourished there for many millennia.

        On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.

        It all started like this:
        Columbus ordered all residents over 14 years of age to surrender to the Spaniards a thimble of golden sand or 25 pounds of cotton (in areas where there was no gold). Having fulfilled this quota, a copper token with the date of receipt of the last tribute was hung on the neck. The token gave its holder the right to three months of life. Caught without this token or expired, the hands of both hands were chopped off, hung on the victim’s neck and sent to die in their village. Columbus, who had previously been involved in the slave trade along the western coast of Africa, apparently adopted this type of execution from Arab slave traders. During the governorship of Columbus, only in Spain, up to 10 thousand Indians were killed in this way.

        And then worse. The atrocities of the Spaniards were irrational - sadism for the sake of sadism.
        1. +6
          April 20 2020 09: 13
          Albert! hi
          And the Belgians, depicting the atrocities of the Spaniards, are such "pussies"!
          1. +4
            April 20 2020 09: 26
            Welcome hi
            There (Both Americas) all Europeans were noted, but the Spaniards were genocidal.
            1. +5
              April 20 2020 10: 20
              There (Both Americas) all Europeans were noted, but the Spaniards were genocidal.

              Albert, what about the arrogant Saxons and the French who joined them? drinks
              1. +3
                April 20 2020 10: 37
                The British and French - first Peace, Friendship, Chewing gum.
                Then the use (hiring) of the Indians in the struggle against each other. The French in Louisiana switched from trade to forcibly squeezing the lands of the Indians.
                The Americans - first peace and commerce, then the forcible removal of land and relocation for minor compensation. About 70% of Indians died during wars and transfers.
                Bottom line: for the human race of all the conquerors, only the British belonged to them. hi
                1. +6
                  April 20 2020 11: 22
                  Bottom line: for the human race of all the conquerors, only the British belonged to them.

                  Logan fought with the settlers when there was still British rule, Although, again - not with the army! And with the local arrogant peyzans, migrant workers, who provoked the Indians themselves to war, having massacred women and children at the Yellow Stream. angry
                  The French in Louisiana moved from trade to forcibly squeezing the lands of the Indians.

                  Both sides (both the English and the French) relied on the Indians in the French-Indian war. The Hurons supported the French .. and they were out of luck!
                  In general, the French and Indian War is interesting by the very "choice of gentlemen". wink While the Seven Years War is going on in Europe, there was a chance to squeeze Canada from the French, which the Anglo-Saxons took advantage of!
                  In domestic history, only one analogy suggests itself - this is the Soviet-Finnish war. what Joseph Vissarionovich at a meeting in April 1940 said: "They have a big war there in the west, and it is still not clear whether they are fighting there or playing cards!" That is, the moment for the war was chosen very on time! AT another point in time all of Europe would have gone for us, and here they were busy in the west. hi This is to the insight of the ambiguous Stalin. I do not accept nasty things about this, Stalin decided everything politically correct. soldier otherwise, the Finns and Germans in 1941 from Sestroretsk would attack Leningrad (15-20 km). request
                  1. +5
                    April 20 2020 12: 46
                    The Finnish War, like the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, provided the necessary territorial buffer, without which things would go much worse in the Second World War
                    1. +5
                      April 20 2020 13: 01
                      The Finnish War, like the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, provided the necessary territorial buffer, without which things would go much worse in the Second World War

                      Lord, it’s nice that another company was added to our company smart the interlocutor! good No, colleagues, the company is growing, and thank God!drinks Albert, I just imagined how our site "patriots" would have showered me with you-know-what for the previous comment. One is not nice to Stalin, to another I would not please with my "insufficiently patriotic statement", but in general you have to be realistic in such assessments, and not pass off your own negative emotions as thoughts! hi I bow to you!
                      By the way, I was really hooked by the phrase of Joseph Vissarionovich: "They are either fighting there, or playing cards!" More precisely about the "strange war" and it was impossible to say! request
                      1. +5
                        April 20 2020 13: 44
                        As for Stalin - the quick surrender of the French in the 40th was also a very unpleasant surprise for him.
                      2. +4
                        April 20 2020 14: 27
                        Nikolay, you are right: we have a lot of evaluations based on emotions. Sometimes you look with what frenzy they "beat" each other and even get scared. Emotions are forgivable to wild Astra, not to adults
                      3. +4
                        April 20 2020 15: 11
                        Sometimes you look with what frenzy they "beat" each other and even get scared.

                        Duck, damn it, Svyatoslav, it’s scary to go to some discussion threads! drinks here we have a corner of the world. Just without a peace pipe laughing
                      4. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 18
                        Vladkub, thinks I'm a child?
                        We are emotional, but you men are worse than women. A woman is weaker than a man, and therefore a woman is more prudent.
                        Boys, before minus think. After all, you are strong
                2. +7
                  April 20 2020 13: 32
                  Greetings to an honest company. hi
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Americans First Peace and Trade

                  Excuse me, but "Americans" are who?
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  humanly, of all the conquerors, only the British

                  I did not understand what this conclusion came from.
                  1. +2
                    April 20 2020 13: 40
                    laughing ..funny duckling
                    The Americans-the victorious independence party in the war))
                    From the fact that the British did not squeeze the land from the Indians - only trade. It was a precept - a friendly attitude towards the natives.
                    1. +6
                      April 20 2020 15: 16
                      And it seems to me that it is impossible to single out one of the colonialists as more or less humane (cruel). Everyone did what he could. In the XVIII century. - British, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese. In the XIX century. - their descendants (Canadians, Americans, Mexicans). None of them were humane and the degree of damage they caused to the local population was limited only by their physical capabilities.
                      The subjects of the British crown may not have been so distinguished in this field as the subjects of the Spanish crown (there were fewer opportunities, they later started), but in any case, no less than the French or the Dutch. And about their descendants - the Americans and say nothing. These had the opportunity to swing their arms to the fullest, having a total advantage over the locals in all aspects of human activity, well, they waved.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      the British did not squeeze the land from the Indians

                      Arriving in the air when they arrived in America, did they fly? They built their cities, forts, plowed the land, got fish and animals and all this on the land squeezed from the Indians.
                      1. 0
                        April 20 2020 15: 23
                        As for the British - they were friends with the Indians, but with the Europeans ... they bought Manhattan bought by the Dutch from the Indians under the guns of warships from the Netherlands, etc.
                        About forts and arable land - land was bought, leased, in a no man's land they did something like the prototype of Khom at Migdal (wall and tower) of the Zionists - they put in a fort, allowed the Indians to understand among themselves who this wilderness belongs to, and then agreed with the winner - these colonialists had everything very clearly laughing
                      2. +5
                        April 20 2020 15: 52
                        As for the British - they were friends with the Indians ...

                        What are you, colleague, when was this and with whom were the British friends? They have never had such a concept as friendship, only interests. hi
                      3. +2
                        April 20 2020 16: 37
                        We were friends - in the sense of trading and treating kindly, because it was an indication from above hi
                      4. +5
                        April 20 2020 16: 42
                        With regard to trade, I agree, but there are reasonable doubts about the "goodwill". request
                      5. +3
                        April 20 2020 16: 48
                        Goodwill sincere and friendly attitude - two big differences)).
                      6. 0
                        April 22 2020 10: 52
                        When there were few white (mainly from England) immigrants,
                        often there was a famine in their villages.
                        Not only were friends with the Indians, but also entered into marriages with Indian women
                        from the environment of leaders for rapprochement of peoples. The Indians willingly went for it,
                        since their tribes were constantly at war with each other. And they needed
                        white weapon.
                      7. +2
                        April 22 2020 11: 05
                        It is a perfectly reasonable approach when the interests of both are clearly expressed. But I did not mean a particular case, but the policy of the whole state as a whole. England, of course.
                      8. +7
                        April 20 2020 16: 20
                        As for the British - they were friends with the Indians, but with the Europeans ... they bought Manhattan bought by the Dutch from the Indians under the guns of warships from the Netherlands, etc.

                        and after all there was one more country which (not including the Dutch, English, French and Spaniards) tried to get colonies in North America. It was .. Swedes!
                        And they even built Fort Christiania in the late 16th and early 17th centuries on the shores of Delaware Bay. The Swedes themselves lived there, also the Finns. True, the Swedish settlement there did not last long - less than 30 years - and was conquered by the Dutch (in 1655). request
                      9. +4
                        April 20 2020 16: 38
                        Europeans loved each other there much more than Indians laughing
                      10. +4
                        April 20 2020 16: 41
                        Europeans loved each other there much more than Indians

                        Well, yes, dear ones scold - they just amuse! laughing Although .. Albert, in the tumultuous 16th century and in the Thirty Years' War, they slaughtered each other with a special draw on the principle of faith. fellow And God knows who was less bloodthirsty - Protestants or good Catholics! request
                        "Excuse me, senor, but this is the Spanish infantry!" (the brave but narrow-minded captain Allatriste). drinks
                      11. +3
                        April 20 2020 16: 55
                        So Western Europe has traditionally destroyed its neighbors and even tribesmen for centuries with all available methods, up to the use of chemical and bacteriological (these even Greeks distinguished themselves in ancient times) weapons. After the WWII a little prifigegi from the magnitude of the massacre, so twenty years later quickly, for the most part, went under the Führer - except for the irreconcilable British sitting on the island laughing
                      12. +5
                        April 20 2020 17: 08
                        After the PMV, a little prifigegi from the magnitude of the slaughter

                        pacifism and Jean-Paul Sartre, who, sitting in a trench during the "strange war," was stunned, how can you fight with such cute Germans who throw them gifts-buns across the line. front. belay
                        Those who won are ofigel. Those who lost - dreamed of a rematch! hi
                        other than the irreconcilable Britons sitting on the island

                        they just got lucky, like Sancho Panse in their dreams - they have their own island. At one time, EMNIP, Vyacheslav Olegovich published an article about "home guard" - the British people's militia after Dunkirk. Yes Having lost (and, partially, having given away to the Germans) all the swag, the "Tommy" did not know how to defend England! request Well, they made attempts to randomly strengthen their army "from matches and acorns." The main ersatz armored car of the British on the island was to be the "Beaverette". A civilian passenger car was sheathed with armor, a Boyes anti-tank rifle or a Bran machine gun was placed in the embrasure - voila, the asphalt tankette is ready! And it is a great happiness that these armored cars never had to participate in the battles ... drinks
                      13. +4
                        April 20 2020 17: 17
                        Moreover, the British seriously discussed the use of museum halberds by the militia against the German troops, the landing of which they expected)). But saved from the exceptionally good training of the Royal Air Force
                      14. +5
                        April 20 2020 17: 20
                        the British seriously discussed the use of museum halberds

                        I haven’t heard about this, but I heard that one of our "gifted" people proposed to arm the units for which there were not enough rifles during WWI with axes. Well, the tsar-father comrades were preparing for war, you will not say anything ...
                        But saved from the exceptionally good training of the Royal Air Force

                        yes, they won this battle! hi on the other hand, they also had a fleet - not like a German.
                      15. +3
                        April 20 2020 17: 25
                        I read about it - RI felt the unpreparedness of industry for war much stronger than industrialized Europeans.
                        The lost Battle of England was supposed to be the first bell for Hitler, but instead, IdiOtiK attacked the USSR.
                      16. +4
                        April 20 2020 17: 30
                        I read about it - RI felt the unpreparedness of industry for war much stronger than industrialized Europeans.

                        Uh-huh, but if we were to imagine a hypothetical situation of "one-on-one war" between then Germany and then Russia, I would venture to suggest that they would have blown it out. Unfortunately. In general, the industry was incomparable. And no heroism of the Russian soldier could have fixed it.
                        but instead attacked the USSR

                        even the German ambassador to the USSR, von Schulenburg, warned him ... hi
                      17. +2
                        April 20 2020 17: 34
                        Both the ambassador and the German military attache - but the son of his uncle and niece, after easy victories in Europe, very much believed in himself. Decided that incest breeds genius laughing
                        PMV one on one with the Germans? They would blow it, and very quickly.
                      18. +5
                        April 20 2020 17: 38
                        PMV one on one with the Germans? They would blow it, and very quickly.

                        generally not comparable level was ... Logistics. Maybe the Germans didn’t have enough bread - but there were even enough cartridges-artillery-machine guns, even on both fronts! What is our plus? Only open spaces and heroism ... Hmm ... what (colleagues, I’ll ask you not to be offended!) drinks
                      19. +2
                        April 20 2020 17: 42
                        There is still a question in the plans of the Germans. If they "went to Moscow" - they would be stuck. Taking St. Petersburg, Kiev and Poland - would have signed the World with a bunch of goodies and goodies.
                      20. -1
                        April 20 2020 19: 55
                        You remembered Pan Kokhank on June 22, 1941, or are you talking about PMV? Remember the Brest Fortress, Sevastopol ... the Germans in the Second World War also had no problems with the quantity of weapons and ammunition, even on May 9, 1945 ... For the Russian, there is no WWII — there is a Second World War.
                      21. -1
                        April 20 2020 19: 41
                        I can only guess. If there was a one-on-one war between the Russian Empire and the Second Reich (Germany), the Germans would not be able to “play the card of V. I. Lenin”. The Bolsheviks insisted that the war was going on between the "bourgeois", while the workers and peasants "had a sore head." A "one-on-one war" would put the "question squarely" - either you are for Vera, the Tsar and the Fatherland, or you are a German ... RIA was destroyed from above - first they overthrew Nicholas II, then "agitation for peace" finished off the army from below.
                      22. +2
                        April 20 2020 18: 02
                        Nikolay, I have never heard of these "tanks".
                      23. +1
                        April 21 2020 09: 34
                        Nikolay, I have never heard of these "tanks".

                        there were also not such models of weapons! Everyone is fighting what he can. They made their Blackard bombers, and planned to stop the tanks by inserting a rail between the rink and the caterpillar (the Ethiopians had a ride with an Italian wedge a few years before, only they put a log in). laughing We made ersatz tanks NI, and in Leningrad they made ampoules ... soldier Natural behavior in such a situation, Svyatoslav! hi Only the Nazis rushed about in search of the "miracle-Yudo-weapon". And the Japanese replaced the lack of technology with the abundance of those who wanted to die for Mikado - in the sense, a stick with a mine at the end in the samurai hands, and forward - to the tanks! fellow
                        here, found the article. The author is only a certain A. Platonov. About "home guard" sample 1940. drinks
                        https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/10638-igrushechnye-soldatiki-cherchillya-oruzhie-britanskogo-opolcheniya/
                      24. +3
                        April 20 2020 16: 47
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        About forts and arable land - land was bought, leased, in no man's land

                        I think, colleague, you yourself do not believe in what you write about. Is it downright without a single violent capture and annexation? Everything is entirely voluntary, and the natives are "themselves to blame." smile
                        With this logic, we can hardly blame the Spaniards for anything - on the side of all these Cortes and Pizarro we always fought or otherwise helped the native contingents in the battle and campaign.
                        I think if you delve deeper into these stories, you can find facts that refute your thesis - punitive operations by the British against the Indians, deep raids in the woods, but what if it is not an aggressive war?
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        As for the British - they were friends with the Indians

                        The American Friendship series season 167, episode 12.
                        The leader of the Blue Turtle tribe Poisonous Smoke sold to the British for three muskets and a keg of gunpowder a piece of land of the Green Eagles tribe. The British set up a small fort there, and immediately trappers set traps on the fur-bearing beast, fishermen blocked the river with nets, and farmers cut down several acres of forest. The Green Eagles Indians raided, took the fort by storm, and burned down those they caught and killed, including children and women. Colonel Clark and Captain Wesley went with a company of royal shooters and guides from the Blue Turtle tribe into the woods and carved a pair of Native American camps along with the same children and women. The Indians went to the headwaters of the Ringing River. Upon returning from the campaign, Captain Wesley marries Cecilia Bolsworth. The abandoned Julia suffers.
                        In the next series, you will see how the same thing that happened to the Green Eagles tribe happens to the Blue Turtles tribe, as well as how Julia marries the elderly Jeff Bolsworth and becomes captain Wesley's mother-in-law.
                        laughing
                      25. +3
                        April 20 2020 17: 08
                        Well, of course this happens with any colonization. )) Even such a kind new government as the Russian imperial forced the Aleuts to maliciously attack the pale-faced, several of whom even saved the English brig, despicably sinking an Indian canoe laughing
                      26. +3
                        April 20 2020 17: 53
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Well, of course this happens with any colonization.

                        That’s what I’m talking about. And highlighting the British as something whiter and fluffier is fundamentally wrong. The exact same methods and the same results. The first Spaniards in the New World had no European competitors, they were tearing off locals from the very beginning, while the British first had to deal with their colleagues - here, perforce, they had to flirt with the natives. But when they figured it out - a curve started in the bathhouse, there was no longer any restraint. And the fact that they rolled the Indians already under the stripe-old instead of Union Jack, for me personally, does not matter.
                      27. +2
                        April 20 2020 18: 20
                        I completely agree - but in fact the British were still "more humane")).
                      28. +1
                        April 20 2020 18: 55
                        If possible, read more about this.
                      29. +6
                        April 20 2020 16: 39
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        the degree of damage they caused to the local population was limited only by their physical capabilities.

                        That's it!
                      30. +2
                        April 20 2020 16: 51
                        Not a fact - the British had a well-established colonial policy, where, at the first stage, the Europeans were deservedly considered dangerous competitors, and the locals - cute, narrow-minded potential terpils.
              2. +5
                April 20 2020 14: 22
                ... arrogant Saxons

                Fu, Nikolay, you are not a "kid from the street" to put it that way. So it is possible to get to "p and n ... s with mattress covers". request laughing drinks
                (Here even the computer does not accept this word on a pin ...)
                1. +6
                  April 20 2020 15: 12
                  Fu, Nikolay, you are not a "kid from the street" to put it that way.

                  Well, okay, forgive me for the tenth time. wink I feel sorry for the Indians, but Goiko Mitich - our everything! soldier
                2. +4
                  April 20 2020 15: 20
                  Hi Konstantin!
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  So it is possible to get to "p and n ... s with mattress covers".

                  I don’t accept these expressions either! Maximum Yankees!
                  1. +5
                    April 20 2020 16: 36
                    Maximum Yankees!

                    "Yankee Doodle is a dandy!" wink an interesting case, how the unspoken anthem of the US Army was born from a humorous song about a recruit soldier, with which the young army went to attack the "red coats"! soldier (colleagues, just a tribute to the story!) drinks
                  2. +4
                    April 20 2020 18: 13
                    So the Dixies are not citizens of the USA? wassat
                    1. +3
                      April 20 2020 18: 27
                      Anton, hello, what's new in life? hi
                      1. +5
                        April 20 2020 18: 39
                        This is not life, this is guerrilla! Every morning you see what the commandant's office has invented there, "death squads", as in the capital, have not yet been introduced.
                        "If it is born in the empire,
                        Better to live in a remote province, by the sea "(C)
                      2. +5
                        April 20 2020 19: 13
                        Well, I don’t know about the "escudo de la morte", my daughter says that they calmly ride around Moscow in a car and are not touched. Yes, and in Ryazan, it seems, there are no atrocities, the hairdressers have been opened again, etc. And here, in the village, there are no "imperial stormtroopers" at all. Well, maybe for now ...
                        But before that, I hope we will not live:
                      3. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 17
                        Konstantin! From the very beginning, in my * deaf * Biryulev / both / I have not seen a single pedestrian cop! In general, I am silent about the National Guard. laughing There are none of them! I see these guys only in the news, it seems that they were all driven into the city center.
                      4. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 21
                        Seryozha, so any government, not to mention ours, has the basic principle of life - ZZZ (protection of its own ass), so let these guardsmen sit in the Kremlin and Barvikha, the sense of them in a pandemic is zero integers, zero tenths. The virus is not a demonstrator; you cannot disperse with a club. laughing
                      5. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 23
                        Well, about this * virus * I have my own theory. No.
                      6. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 31
                        And you share with the people, interesting all the same. I have all thoughts from an alien attack to the machinations of world imperialism through the jokes of crazy scientist-villains. Now, if it had gone from us, then it would have been clear that this is the usual rzZzvydzhestvo. And so, how many people - so many opinions. laughing
                      7. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 37
                        Is it worth it? Many already know and guess!
                      8. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 38
                        Well, write me in a personal, maybe I don’t know something here. I'm waiting.
                      9. +1
                        April 21 2020 10: 32
                        Well, write me in a personal, maybe I don’t know something here. I'm waiting.

                        both of you have already left. With straitjackets. Homeland hears! laughing drinks
                      10. +2
                        April 21 2020 10: 40
                        Nikolai! And behind Bill, our everything, Gates also drove the carriage ??? Read his interview about universal chipization. what
                      11. +2
                        April 21 2020 10: 47
                        Gates also drove the carriage

                        left. White. With a body "limousine". Take him to his own ten-story villa with rum, jacuzzi and eighteen-year-old odalisques. So he lives! request he was already tired of such a life. No, to sit culturally with the men .. on the river .. with a fishing rod and glasses .. crying But no - then invent "Windows" for them, then device chipization! laughing
                        In our age of technological progress and spacecraft, we will all be digitized soon. And this is not surprising. You click on the QR code, and you get all the information, who shit when someone, who slept with whom, who farted where. So it will be, Sergey! hi
                      12. +2
                        April 21 2020 10: 48
                        So am I about that!
                      13. +2
                        April 21 2020 10: 52
                        So am I about that!

                        And it will be, as in a famous song:
                        Here you can play yourself on the trumpet,
                        But no matter how you play, you keep playing "lights out" ....

                        Slavery will only take new forms! drinks
                      14. +1
                        April 21 2020 19: 10
                        Here, after all, here it was written in one good book: any plans can be built, and even very good, but all of them can crash into one unexpected obstacle, a machine gun on a hilltop, for example. So let them go ... laughing
                        A joke, of course.
                      15. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 18
                        It’s even a shame, why, whom did these famous * Ausweis * make out?!?! fool
                      16. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 28
                        They designed it so that order was undisciplined, and so that the people knew that the government does not sleep, but also works. laughing
                      17. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 33
                        Yes, yes, plus solid chipization of the population! In a recent interview, Colonel Kvachkov described the current situation as * command post exercises *.
                      18. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 36
                        I would agree with him if it was only about our country, and so - hell knows, something does not believe in the world conspiracy of Putin, tramp and other companies, they are always biting like crazy dogs.
                      19. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 24
                        A good artist, by the way, is from St. Petersburg. I saw his work on the web. I like.
                      20. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 27
                        I also liked it, because here and squeezed. Do not remember the name of the master? And then I downloaded from somewhere on the left. Nice guy works.
                        On the topic "Wash your hands not only before eating."
                      21. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 31
                        I don’t remember going to send. By the way, he also has a video.
                      22. +1
                        April 20 2020 19: 32
                        The video did not come across, and interesting to watch.
                    2. +2
                      April 20 2020 18: 35
                      Greetings Anton!
                      And then! Of course, citizens, but * Yankees * is somehow a broader nickname.
                      1. +5
                        April 20 2020 19: 02
                        Sergei! hi
                        Try to call a local resident in Texas "Yankees" ... I have a friend, I accidentally tried it, ogreb in full, the police arrived, explained, on the way to the station ogreb from them, from "ogrebovanie" in the "monkey house" saved the cry Rushen ".
                      2. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 07
                        Yes, everything is clear! Texas is generally a separate song! And also Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and others * Dixie *. Well and of course, my beloved Pomississipie! laughing
                      3. +5
                        April 20 2020 19: 26
                        We all grew up on "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin"!
                        "- Tom, you are so noble!" (FROM)
                        ... and the heart melts.
                      4. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 28
                        And the hut! * Uncle Tom's hut * !!!
                      5. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 34
                        Captain Thomas Minerid and his immortal Osceola. smile
                      6. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 36
                        Horseman, * Headless horseman *! crying
                      7. +5
                        April 20 2020 19: 42
                        They filmed from us at one time, the eared Vidov does not roll at the cowboy at all, although it was filmed in Cuba, but it turned out as always when filming "about them". laughing

                        The only thing with a real "Colt" instead of a converted "Nagant".
                      8. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 35
                        No no no! In my case, these are "Tales of Uncle Remus" and a collection of American folklore "People? Yes!"
                      9. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 39
                        About the rabbit and fox brothers? Once upon a time, a long time ago it was very deep in memory.
                      10. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 43
                        It is the same.
                        "-Brother Fox, do with me what you want, just do not throw me into the thorn bush!" (C)
                      11. +3
                        April 20 2020 19: 52
                        It's good that I recalled, for sure, read in childhood. And only at a mature age I learned that all these "brothers" are all Negro fairy tales about Negroes.
                      12. +4
                        April 20 2020 20: 09
                        Oh, Uncle Kostya, don’t make me funny! What, in tuches, blacks? Well, purely tales about greks from Privoz !!!
                      13. +4
                        April 20 2020 20: 16
                        He was at Privoz, okromya Jews and Ukrainians did not see any Greeks.
                        Being at Privoz, Katsman saw a sign in the form of a clock above the entrance to the shop.
                        Has entered:
                        “Can you fix my Moser?”
                        - We don’t fix the clock.
                        - What are you doing?
                        - Mi do circumcisions.
                        - But what about the clock above the entrance?
                        - Did Schaub Wi want the Schaub I hung there ...?
                      14. +4
                        April 20 2020 20: 23
                        Oh, Uncle Kostya, the Greeks know how to disguise themselves! You’ll kind of look at a person: a Tatar is a Tatar, but you’ll dig a little deeper, as there is a Greek !!! laughing
                      15. +3
                        April 20 2020 20: 31
                        ... And you look into the soul, an ordinary crocodile.

                      16. +1
                        April 21 2020 15: 11
                        ... And you look into the soul, an ordinary crocodile.

                        ... My dad drank like a barrel, and he died from wine! drinks great movie! good No, guys, they knew how to shoot before the war, every film is a masterpiece! I myself sometimes revise "Peter the Great" for pleasure.
                      17. +4
                        April 20 2020 19: 45
                        About "Henry, London, Bret Garth, Faulkner ... As a child, only Meinrid, Cooper did not even take in his hands.
                      18. 0
                        April 21 2020 11: 08
                        "The Tales of Uncle Remus"

                        Are you talking about superethnos, Anton? hi or what about?
                      19. +3
                        April 21 2020 15: 03
                        Nikolay, what else? Yesterday I didn’t wait for this topic (or missed? It seems to be not), apparently the Bar is not in shape or our society is completely sick of it. But here it is:

                        how could you skip?
                        Only on the basis of this subject alone can we safely state the presence of a superethnos on American fields. This is the Monomakh hat in a somewhat simplified version, with a cross and a crescent - a symbol of Great Tartaria.
                      20. +3
                        April 21 2020 15: 23
                        This is the Monomakh hat in a somewhat simplified version, with a cross and a crescent - a symbol of Great Tartaria.

                        Don’t tell the creator of the superethnos, Mikhail! belay If you remember, three years ago everyone quarreled on the topic of whether it was necessary to give Alaska. hi And if it emerges that such a hat was worn by the Apaches - the brightest representatives of the ancient Slavs - then the dispute will break out with renewed vigor, and the supporters of the Great and Indivisible will demand back not only Alaska, but also a piece of America right across Arizona itself! fellow
                        This is still in Polotsk they do not know about the Great Tartary. what The local scientists intended that they had the geographical center of Europe. Can you imagine what a chic occasion to move the horse hordes and haplogroups to the West in order to reunite the fraternal ancient Slavic peoples? wink good (photo - mine, June 2017).
                      21. +2
                        April 21 2020 17: 12
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        horse hordes and haplogroups

                        Horse hordes in galloping groups all the way to the Enfil tower and the Bona forest. laughing
                      22. +1
                        April 21 2020 17: 16
                        Bona forests

                        how do you know about the ancient sacred place of portuguese-russians ?! belay by the way, Bonaparte translates as "partly from the Bona forest", Bona-part. Partly from there (for papa), partly from Corsica (for all other relatives). That is, in the person of the donor of the "Napoleon's code" we have a talented and energetic mestizo, the result of mixing the Portuguese-Rus and Corsican-Slavs. and the Corsicans are generally from the territory of modern Ukraine, there is even a city there - Korsun. Some of them went with Alaric to conquer Rome, and founded settlements in Corsica. hi
                      23. +2
                        April 21 2020 09: 33
                        Anton, and who do the Texans consider themselves Martians?
                      24. +2
                        April 21 2020 09: 39
                        The traditional nickname for the inhabitants of the southern states is "Dixie". Calling a southerner "Yankee" is bad manners, bordering on an insult. Texans are a separate story altogether, the citizens of the United States who are the most affected by local separatism.
                      25. +1
                        April 21 2020 12: 45
                        Texans nickname Texans! Just texas.
                        But who’s called Oki, you yourself know! laughing
                      26. +2
                        April 21 2020 15: 14
                        "dixie"

                        Do Texans contain a chain of stores "Dixie"? laughing
                      27. +1
                        April 21 2020 18: 09
                        Yes, on shares with * oki * -klohomites! laughing
                      28. +1
                        April 21 2020 18: 11
                        Yes, on shares with * oki * -klohomites!

                        Dashing cowboys together with harsh rednecks!drinks
                      29. +1
                        April 21 2020 18: 16
                        But I have nothing against * red-faced *! Such healthy conservatives! They wanted to spit on political correctness and other tolerance!
                      30. +1
                        April 21 2020 18: 18
                        They wanted to spit on political correctness and other tolerance!

                        and the rights of African Americans will also be spoiled if they are given the will. laughing azigum-harum-geru! fellow
                      31. +1
                        April 21 2020 18: 23
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        azigum-harum-geru!

                        Nikolay, I ask for a translation.
                      32. +1
                        April 21 2020 21: 17
                        Ah !!!!!! So you mean the song Dorivala Coimmi !!!! from the series * Slave Isaur * !!! Lord, and I think that * azigum-harum-geru * !!! fool Now, if: * I started life in the city slums xxx .... * laughing
                      33. +1
                        April 22 2020 10: 23
                        So you mean the song Dorivala Coimmi !!!! from the series * Slave Izaura * !!!

                        Sergey, I don’t know who the author of the song is, but you will forget the blacks with reed figs! laughing Soviet childhood, and grandmother is watching the first Latin American TV series! And, there was also the song "Kar-Man". By the way, did you know that "slave Izaura" herself began her film career with "a very funny movie"? wink Shhh, just don’t tell the Sea Cat, he, like a lieutenant, no, he’s already captain Rzhevsky, he will add and embellish everything, licking his lips! drinks
                        As there is a well-known joke: there is no automatic loader on the Abrams tanks, but there is still a position of loader, to which, according to American tradition, a strong black man is certainly appointed! fellow
                      34. +3
                        April 22 2020 18: 18
                        Mykola, you will not believe, but from "Slave Izaura" I only saw (partially) a couple of episodes, and then, because during the meal there was nowhere to go from the kitchen, and my mother-in-law was baldela from these Latin snot. The main character made an extremely repulsive impression on me, I can't imagine who she could arouse by acting in a "funny movie". Of all the serials of that time, I remember only our "KGB in a tuxedo", and now I would have watched it with pleasure. Oleg Fomin shot it magnificently, and the main character there is an exceptional beauty. Not only me, but all the cats of our site will lick their lips with lust for such a woman. smile drinks



                        Fomina inserted for exclusively for Russian color, I respect him as an actor and director.
                      35. +3
                        April 22 2020 18: 46
                        Konstantin, you know about Fomin’s direction, there’s a big question. I remember his * movie * about the White Guards is something !!! With a minus sign. He seems to be called * Gentlemen officers *, if you didn’t look, then you don’t need it! send you a couple more jokes in PM, but ..... They didn’t let me go. There was a four-letter word / foreign !!!! / meaning the process of love. It’s a pity you would laugh. laughing
                      36. +3
                        April 22 2020 19: 21
                        .There was a four-letter word /

                        Break this word with a hyphen or space - should pass. In general, of course, insanity, in PM, I mean.
                        And about Fomin's direction, I will answer with one phrase: "Did you see the peculiarities of the national hunting?" Well, that's it. good drinks
                      37. +2
                        April 22 2020 19: 24
                        Yes, I saw, I saw. Not enthusiastic. You can see the first part once.
                      38. +1
                        April 22 2020 20: 31
                        You are wrong, a very vital movie, and the characters are recognizable, and situations. laughing
                      39. +2
                        April 22 2020 20: 46
                        It seems so called * Lord officers *, if you did not look, then it is not necessary!

                        I did not like. The film is rather weak, and the worst thing is, he took "Wolfhound" - Bukharov there. Disgusting weak artist. It can ruin any movie with its play. negative And I respect Fomin. drinks
                3. +3
                  April 20 2020 17: 39
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  So you can get to "p and n ... s with mattress covers"

                  But I personally like both names, especially the first. I read somewhere that a hundred years ago its meaning was approximately the following: a stranger who is not familiar with the nuances of proper behavior in a particular society, does not want to get acquainted with them and, nevertheless, actively intervenes in the natural course of events. Something like "in a strange monastery with its own charter", and loudly and demonstratively. Very suitable for modern Americans, and at all levels, from student to president. Painfully they love to teach people the right life, sincerely considering their values ​​to be the only correct ones.
                  Although, maybe I was so lucky ...
                  1. +1
                    April 20 2020 18: 26
                    Everything is clear with the mattress, but the first "name" is in what language? Purely out of curiosity, I will not use it anyway, I've seen enough here which category of the public uses this word.
                    1. +1
                      April 20 2020 19: 44
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      the first "name" is in what language?

                      I understand that in Greek. I can't say exactly what this means, but the "wiki" says that at the end of the century before last, local Greeks were called so in the northern Black Sea region. That's where I came across that this word has a broader meaning, in the sense of a "stranger" in general, God forbid, I don't remember.
                      We should ask our Bulgarian colleagues on occasion - they are closer there, they should know better. smile
                      But anyway, I sometimes use this word (I don’t like Americans and generally don’t like arrogant people) and I think it is very suitable for many citizens of this country.
                      1. +2
                        April 20 2020 19: 48
                        ... the wiki says ...

                        Well, in the "wiki" they will write, I read what they sculpt about weapons there - the ears wither.
                        ... I think it is very suitable for many citizens of this country.

                        Well, it’s a business, I have enough of a textbook mat. smile
                      2. +2
                        April 20 2020 20: 30
                        The good thing about wiki is that it provides links to sources. Actually, this is the main thing in it.
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        I have enough of a textbook mat.

                        Well, with this, and I have no shortage. laughing
                        However, somehow it happened in my head that the mat should be protected and not used in vain. It is a lot of honor to cover every American with obscenities. So, he spat through his teeth - "pindos" - and it seems, everything is clear.
                        From an intelligent person, a mate in his direction still needs to be earned. smile
                        Here, unexpectedly, an aphorism was born. smile
                      3. +2
                        April 20 2020 20: 33
                        From an intelligent person, a mate in his direction still needs to be earned.

                        Well said! good drinks
            2. 0
              April 20 2020 20: 46
              Albert "Krasnodar", and you are not afraid of the revenge of the Spaniards, what do you say about them like that?
              1. +1
                April 20 2020 20: 55
                The closest Spaniard from me is a few hours of summer, so it’s not very laughing
          2. +3
            April 20 2020 17: 20
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And the Belgians, depicting the atrocities of the Spaniards, are such "pussies"!

            But what about! The main thing in Congo is not to talk about Belgian humanism.
            1. +2
              April 20 2020 18: 18
              This is precisely what was meant, and it all began when de Coster wrote his immortal creation, denouncing Spanish geeks.
        2. +2
          April 20 2020 10: 30
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Just the same genocide was in Latin America
          Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa was destroyed also 97% of the population: from 180 thousand in 1520

          The European DISEASES, from which the natives had no immunity, destroyed the people.

          And in North America, in addition to diseases, there was just physical genocide, there are practically no Indians there

          in South America, the Indians appeared an important component of the composition of modern nations (Mexicans, Guatemalans, Paraguayans, Peruvians, etc.). In some countries, the languages ​​of the Indians exist along with Spanish (Quechua - in Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador; Guarani - in Paraguay, where it is the second official language, etc.
          1. +4
            April 20 2020 10: 50
            No way
            In South America, the Spaniards just cut them. In addition to disease. In the North, during the wars, the squeezed land, resettlement, and disease also died - but there was no genocide.
            1. -2
              April 20 2020 11: 11
              Quote: Krasnodar
              In South America, the Spaniards just cut them.

              give specific examples mass cutting million — in that place they cut three million from such-and-such-and-such, in that place — another million, etc.
              1. +6
                April 20 2020 11: 36
                In South America, the Spaniards just cut them.

                give specific examples of mass cutting

                Colleagues, from the genocide in South America, I remember only the genocide of the Muiska Chibchi, which Ambrosius Ehinger arranged in search of Eldorado. When in the column of shackled Indians someone weakened, they did not rivet a block on his neck, but immediately chop off his head. True, the "cruel of the cruel" Ehinger still ended badly .. Well, there and the road! hi
              2. +4
                April 20 2020 13: 34
                For 75 years - from the appearance of the first Europeans in 1519 to 1594 - the population in Central Mexico, the most densely populated area of ​​the American continent, declined by 95%, from 25 million to barely 1 million 300 thousand people.

                Over the 60 years since the arrival of the Spaniards, the population of Western Nicaragua has declined by 99%, from more than 1 million to less than 10 thousand people. In West and Central Honduras, over half a century, 95% of the indigenous people were destroyed. In Cordoba, near the Gulf of Mexico, 97% per century with a little. In the neighboring province of Jalapa, 97% of the population was also destroyed: from 180 thousand in 1520 to 5 thousand in 1626. And so - everywhere in Mexico and Central America. The advent of the Europeans meant the lightning and almost complete disappearance of the indigenous population, who lived and flourished there for many millennia.

                On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.
                By the end of the 16 century, about 200 thousand Spaniards moved to both "India". In Mexico, Central America and further to the south. By the same time, from 60 to 80 millions of indigenous people of these regions were destroyed.

                Methods of the genocide of the Columbian era

                Here we observe striking parallels with the methods of the Nazis. Already in the second expedition of Columbus (1493), the Spaniards used an analogue of Hitler’s sonderkommando to enslave and destroy the local population. Parties of Spanish thugs with dogs trained to kill a man, instruments of torture, gallows and shackles arranged regular punitive expeditions with indispensable mass executions.

                Columbus ordered all residents over 14 years of age to surrender to the Spaniards a thimble of golden sand or 25 pounds of cotton (in areas where there was no gold). Having fulfilled this quota, a copper token with the date of receipt of the last tribute was hung on the neck. The token gave its holder the right to three months of life. Caught without this token or expired, the hands of both hands were chopped off, hung on the victim’s neck and sent to die in their village. Columbus, who had previously been involved in the slave trade along the western coast of Africa, apparently adopted this type of execution from Arab slave traders. During the governorship of Columbus, only in Spain, up to 10 thousand Indians were killed in this way. It was almost impossible to fulfill the established quota. Local residents had to stop growing food and all other things to dig gold. Famine began. The Indians tried to run wherever they look: across the island, into the mountains, even to other islands. But salvation was nowhere. Mothers killed their children before killing themselves. Entire villages resorted to mass suicides, throwing themselves off rocks or taking poison. But death was even more in the hands of the Spaniards.
              3. +4
                April 20 2020 13: 45
                Contemporary Columbus sources describe how Spanish colonists hanged, roasted on skewers, and burned Indians at the stake. Children were cut into pieces to feed the dogs. And this despite the fact that the Tainos initially did not offer the Spaniards practically any resistance. "The Spaniards were betting who could cut a man in two with one blow, or cut his head off, or they ripped open their bellies. They tore the babies from their mother's breasts by the legs and smashed their heads on stones ... They strung other children on their long swords together with their mothers and everyone who stood before them. " More zeal could not have been demanded from any SS man on the Eastern Front, Ward Churchill rightly notes. We add that the Spaniards have established a rule that for one killed Christian, they will kill one hundred Indians. The Nazis didn't have to invent anything. They only had to copy.
          2. +5
            April 20 2020 12: 51
            I do not agree with you about the Indian genocide in the United States. There are more than 6 million Indians there now. In California, you can probably pull the ears to the genocide. And in other places there have been separate acts of extermination of civilians (Sand Creek, Baker massacre, etc.). Together, less than a thousand will be killed there (I don’t think of California) .It could have been genocide, only a small and poorly trained U.S. army of that time could not do it. Screaming drunks from saloons and any declassed element did not fit this role well. In California it happened because the local aborigines were extremely backward and peace-loving. They ran naked, lived in pits. That's what happened. And with the same Apaches or Iroquois, the Mexicans also sold captive Apaches into slavery or shot them. For example, after the massacre in Tre Los Castillos of 1879. Or the 1851 massacre described by the author of a car. 16 children and women were then sold into slavery. American Apache prisoners taught crafts and literacy, such as the nephew of Jeronimo Jason Betcinez, who fought against whites, shot at soldiers, and was subsequently taken prisoner. he was taught captivity to read and write, given a profession. He then
            He worked as a steelworker in a factory. He wrote an interesting and truthful book I Fought with Geronimo. Mexicans would have killed him.
            1. +5
              April 20 2020 17: 53
              Comrade ratveg, thank you from the Yankees, and the Spaniards invite you to a duel
        3. +5
          April 20 2020 12: 32
          These figures need to be taken with great caution. No censuses were carried out. The same Las Casas, well-intentioned, composing a note to the King of Spain, tens of times exaggerated the number of Indians of Cuba and Haiti. And inflated the number of killed Indians many times. to draw the attention of those in power to the real problems of exploitation and real atrocities.
        4. +5
          April 20 2020 15: 47
          On the eve of the invasion of Europeans in Peru and Chile, in the homeland of the Incas lived from 9 to 14 million people ... Long before the end of the century in Peru, there were no more than 1 million inhabitants. And in a few years - only half of it. 94% of Andean population were destroyed, from 8,5 to 13,5 million people.

          Data is inflated at times, if not an order of magnitude
          For comparison, the Estimation of the population of Germany is 1500-11 million. 1600 15 million.
          Spain the end of the 16th century - 8-8.5 million people. This is Spain with its fertile climate.
          Peru, in principle, does not feed so many people at the then level of development. It is enough to visit the foothills of the Andes and the Nazca desert to see for yourself. This is a bad territory for the development of civilizations.. The Incas jumped above their heads, but do not exaggerate the scale of Tauantinsuyu
          About Chile, with its pampas, Atacama desert and Araucans in the absence of highly developed material cultures, it is not even funny.

          There was genocide in South America. But there was no total destruction. Most Indians became a victim of disease as already written here ..
          1. +1
            April 20 2020 17: 38
            They slaughtered those whom they got, and they got mainly in the overseas territories.
            1. +2
              April 20 2020 18: 09
              It was different, but on the whole it wasn’t such that everyone was killed. Read about Potos, the foundation of a pan-European economy for 200 years. There were encomiands. At the end of the 16th century, 75 thousand Indians lived in Cusco and its environs (comparable to Moscow and its environs) who paid 380 thousand pesos of taxes (Moscow tsars would have fallen ill with envy)
              Who needs to kill a chicken laying silver eggs?
              1. 0
                April 20 2020 18: 17
                This is at a later stage - we are talking about the beginning of the conquest and the atrocious atrocities of the recently ended war with the Moors of the conquistadors
                1. +2
                  April 20 2020 18: 19
                  Good, but in any case, millions are cut out this is not serious.
                  Las Casas 10 million for one Hispaniola counted but it is the best whistle
                  1. +1
                    April 20 2020 18: 23
                    I agree - it means they were cut out and died from diseases, incl. recorded in white.
                    1. +3
                      April 20 2020 18: 29
                      About the disease.
                      When the Spaniards moved from the territory of the Aztecs to the north, they did not meet a soul for hundreds of kilometers. Entire tribes died out of smallpox without even seeing a white man.
                      The main victims were sometimes during the period of conquest, sometimes during the period of meaningful squeezing of juice from the provinces. In Potosi, Indians perished for generations from depletion in mines, mercury poisoning, and accidents. The number of victims was supposed to be hundreds of times higher than the victims in the conquest of Peru itself. It's just that their death was distributed in time and was not accompanied by fanaticism, so this is rarely remembered. This is not genocide in the strict sense, but it is not easier for the Indians.
                      1. +2
                        April 20 2020 18: 35
                        Here we can argue with the terminology - the word genocide was coined by the Zionist Lemkin (EMNIP), describing the tragedy of the Ottoman Empire during the years of WWII - but in principle, what the Spaniards did is a massacre on racial grounds
                      2. +2
                        April 20 2020 18: 45
                        The massacre was definitely. On what grounds I'm not sure. Maybe on a racial basis. But you need to remember that in each case the conquistadors are several hundred scumbags. They physically cannot kill hundreds of thousands. Primary atrocities are replaced by the advent of the royal administration. All Indians are counted, attached to the ground, taxed. Priests fulfill the standards for saving souls as they can, by conducting mass baptisms, and the conquistadors go on.
                        This is how civilization goes.
                      3. +3
                        April 20 2020 20: 59
                        Let's just say - they cut them in the thousands, infected tens of thousands, drove them away and brought hundreds to death by starvation. Then - yes, everything settled down, and at a later stage, Indian and African compasses became brothers in the fight against the mother country, then they received equal rights)).
                      4. +1
                        April 20 2020 21: 12
                        Close to my opinion. )
        5. +4
          April 20 2020 16: 44
          Quote: Krasnodar
          And then worse. The atrocities of the Spaniards were irrational - sadism for the sake of sadism.

          They had rational atrocities - the Spaniards pumped money out of the colonies. At any cost.
          The same import of slaves from Africa was invented and started by the Spaniards. And they argued that the local population, weak and small, could not work like the Negroes. They even drew humanism to this - they say, this is done to preserve the remnants of the local population.
          And the hands for not fulfilling the plan for harvesting cut even in the twentieth century - the Belgians in the Congo.
          1. +2
            April 20 2020 17: 40
            Chop the child to feed the dogs - like that ... where is rationalism?
          2. +2
            April 20 2020 18: 17
            The same import of slaves from Africa was invented and started by the Spaniards.

            The Portuguese still
      3. +5
        April 20 2020 12: 27
        According to estimates by the Census Bureau, 2020 million 6 thousand Indians lived in the United States for 790. The largest number of Indians in Oklahoma is 280638 people or 7 percent of the state’s population. In Alaska, 103 thousand Indians. In New Mexico, 183 thousand. In Arizona, 271 thousand. of course very little. In Latin America, if you have a great-grandfather white, then they will take you for white. And in the USA it’s very confusing. On the one hand, the percentages of Indian blood are calculated, they’ll drive away any stray from the freebie (however, benefits). And on the other hand, judging by photo, many Indians do not differ from white in appearance. Or even how blacks look
    2. +8
      April 20 2020 08: 09
      Goiko Mitich of course our main Indian

      He will turn 80 in June. But the actor still does not depart from the role of Indians. In Berlin, he still plays an Indian in the theatrical production of One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. And in 2016, another film was released, where he plays the old leader Inchu-chun: "Winnetou & Old Shatterhand"
  2. +9
    April 20 2020 06: 24
    * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, good morning and thank you for the next article on a * Indian * topic!
    1. +7
      April 20 2020 06: 34
      And good morning to you!
      Quote: Phil77
      * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
      Pulled from my second material. Here it is the age of informatization!
      1. +5
        April 20 2020 08: 20
        Everything is simpler, Vyacheslav Olegovich! I watched the film * Conspiracy Theory * and there Mel Gibson uttered a phrase about love, comparing it with a flight from a skyscraper with a scream * Jeronimo !!!! *. Well, I wondered what that word means. So! laughing hi
        1. +2
          April 20 2020 14: 15
          Seryoga, hello! hi
          "Everything is not what it seems, and not vice versa." - from the same place. So the question arises: What to believe? And then, in purely Russian, "What to do?" and "Who is to blame?" laughing
      2. 0
        April 20 2020 21: 22
        Quote: kalibr
        And good morning to you!
        Quote: Phil77
        * Geronimo! * Since 1940, the battle cry of the US paratroopers arose during the landing of the 501th regiment. The author is considered a certain fighter Eberhard.
        Pulled from my second material. Here is the age of informatization!


        Exactly. From this it was necessary to start a series of articles, and then to explain - "who, what, and how." hi
  3. +7
    April 20 2020 07: 05
    Here they are human destinies: first the horror of the Mexicans, and then the sale of their photographs.

    You won’t fight Time.
  4. +8
    April 20 2020 07: 50
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    The personality and name of the hero of the article was widely known outside the United States, even several decades after his death.
    For example, I first read about Jeronimo in one of the books of J. Darrel, oddly enough.
  5. +4
    April 20 2020 08: 50
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, for the article. As always interesting and informative
  6. +6
    April 20 2020 08: 54
    From the point of view of the Indians of the 19th century who lived under the tribal system, there was no genocide of the Indians: they simply came new tribes (pale-faced) and began to do what was supposed by tribal morality - to clear the land of old tribes.

    Modern self-awareness (with the recognition of tribal showdowns as genocide) appeared among the Indians only after mastering such concepts as sovereignty, state, law, humanity, etc.

    Projecting the psychology of Europeans on 19th-century Indians is a typical mistake of their fans.
    1. +4
      April 20 2020 10: 20
      Quote: Operator
      From the point of view of the Indians of the 19th century who lived under the tribal system, there was no genocide of the Indians: they simply came new tribes (pale-faced) and began to do what was supposed by tribal morality - to clear the land of old tribes.

      Modern self-awareness (with the recognition of tribal showdowns as genocide) appeared among the Indians only after mastering such concepts as sovereignty, state, law, humanity, etc.

      Projecting the psychology of Europeans on 19th-century Indians is a typical mistake of their fans.

      Unfortunately, the entire modern world suffers from this "projection". How can you judge the morality of the people of the Middle Ages or the early dynasties of the pharaohs, from the point of view of, for example, Greta Thunberg ?!
    2. +3
      April 20 2020 18: 17
      White taught on his own head, and now disentangle
  7. +6
    April 20 2020 13: 06
    In his biography, by the way, Jeronimo wrote a lot of "untruths" to put it mildly. years older than him. All the rest are the grandchildren of Mako (Geronimo's grandfather) and his second wife. That is, his cousins.
    2. I quote: "I was born in Arizona, near Nodoyon Canyon, in June 1829." In fact, Geronimo was born in 1823. As Utley writes in his biography of Geronimo: "His memory— or his interpreter— played him false. The year 1823 fits with other
    known events, and the New Mexico site his own description of the country. "Trapp and Sweeney and Opler both write about this.

    3. The date and chronology of events are confused. Jeronimo writes: "In the summer of 1858, being in a state of peace with all Mexican settlements and neighboring Indian tribes, we went south to Old Mexico to engage in trade ..... Once, returning to camp in the afternoon, we found only a few women and children there, who told us that Mexicans from another village had been there, they killed the guard, captured horses and weapons, destroyed all our supplies and killed many women and children ..... And then I learned that my whole family had died: an elderly mother, a young wife, and three children. "
    After that Geronimo decided to take revenge: "In the summer of 1859, almost a year after the massacre in Casquia, all three Apache tribes gathered on the Mexican border to set foot on the warpath."

    This is almost all distortion. The fact is that since the late 1830s the Chiricaua were at war with Mexico. With some states they fought, and in others they sold their booty. In January 1851, the Chiricaua organized another predatory expedition to Sonora. 150 soldiers were led by Mangas Coloradas. , with him was 28-year-old Geronimo (as a warrior), Cochise and Hu. That time they plundered the farm all the way to Hermosillo, after which they went home loaded with booty. A detachment of 100 National Guards of Captain Ignacio Pesqueira rushed in pursuit. 20 January 1851 were ambushed at Pozo Hediondo (Smelly Springs). This is exactly the fight in which Geronimo: "Drenched in the blood of enemies, with the conquered weapon in hand, I stood on the battlefield, reveling in the joy of victory and just retribution." As Geronimo says: “Never before have I been a leader - this honor was given to me for the fact that I suffered more than others, and I was eager to justify such a high confidence.” Lying. The battle was led by Mangas Coloradas.26 Mexican soldiers killed and 46 wounded; all officers killed or wounded. The Apaches decided to sell the plundered booty in the city of Hanos (Chihuahua). Children and women joined them, they all went to this town. On March 5, 1851, soldiers (including Geronimo) drank their booty in the taverns of Hanos. A camp with women and children, without any the guard was attacked by 400 soldiers of Colonel Carrasco who came from Sonora. As a result of the attack, 21 Apaches were killed, and 62 (6 men, 4 women and 52 children) were captured and later sold into slavery. The drunken soldiers returned to the scene of the massacre and here Geronimo Jeronimo's nephew Jason Betzinez writes bitterly about how the Apaches drank in the taverns of Chanos while their families were being killed by the soldiers, Jeronimo's nephew Jason Betzinez writes. Betzinez himself fought with the soldiers and was later captured during Florida. On page 17 of I Fought With Geronimo, Betzinez writes: “When Goyakla and his friends returned from drinking in Hanos they found the mutilated bodies of their family members.” Sweeney write. t about this episode in the article “'I Had Lost All': Geronimo and the Carrasco Massacre of 1851,” and in the book Mangas Coloradas on pages 218-219. Atli writes about this in Geronimo's book in Chapter 3, "Battle and Carnage"
    1. +5
      April 20 2020 14: 56
      A very good addition. Many thanks!
      1. +2
        April 21 2020 09: 21
        Thank you! Your article, by the way, is competently and interestingly written. What is rare now. Jeronimo intentionally note some facts in the biography. He was a prisoner of war at the time of writing. Fate was hanging by a thread, Arizona residents demanded that the president hang him. So life forced me to dictate the right words.
        1. +5
          April 21 2020 09: 51
          Quote: ratveg
          So life made me dictate the right words.

          It often happens in life. Not only with captive Indians, but with illustrious marshals.
  8. +6
    April 20 2020 14: 19
    Hello, friends! hi All greetings and best wishes! drinks
    Thanks Olegovich for another Native American story. By the way, now in the States, every Indian reservation has a tax-free casino. Can I live?
    1. +5
      April 20 2020 14: 53
      In general, these are offshore zones! And + subsidies from the state.
    2. +4
      April 20 2020 14: 58
      So the Seminole tribe bought casino grandmothers the famous chain of Hard Rock cafe sets - almost for lard tanks, and the Indians significantly expanded their business - to Hard Rock hotels and Casinos good
      1. +5
        April 20 2020 15: 05
        Here I am about the same thing, so poor things suffer ...
  9. +4
    April 20 2020 14: 35
    Quote: Krasnodar
    No way
    In South America, the Spaniards just cut them. In addition to disease. In the North, during the wars, the squeezed land, resettlement, and disease also died - but there was no genocide.

    And why then in South America the descendants of mixed marriages prevail, and even the Indians? Perhaps the Spaniards, in order to lime the Indians, entered into mixed marriages? A kind of genocide.
    1. +4
      April 20 2020 14: 43
      Exactly, Vladislav! Those who were baptized and walked hand in hand with the Spaniards lived well. It was bad for those who wanted to preserve the faith of their fathers!
      1. +3
        April 20 2020 15: 00
        First of all, it was bad for those who refused to give up the earth and dig gold. Then yes - the Inquisition. Well, then the fall of the Spanish Empire, the struggle for the independence of the settlers from the metropolis and, as a result, marriages with the Indians and descendants of African slaves.
        1. +3
          April 20 2020 18: 46
          Krasnodar, now I believe that you read V. And. Lenin, and then thought that for the Pontus said to show off.
      2. +3
        April 20 2020 17: 41
        V.O., and this is always the case: that the Indians converted to Catholicism, that the Jews converted to Christianity, that the Bulgarian "help". Some of them, out of conviction, changed their faith, and many on the principle: "Paris is worth the Mass."
        What beliefs have changed faith can be respected, and who for the sake of Paris, thank you, I can not respect them.
        Standing apart are such as: "Venitu" - sufferers: they tried to try on both whites and Indians
        1. +3
          April 20 2020 18: 02
          Quote: vladcub
          Standing apart are such as: "Venitu" - sufferers: they tried to try on both whites and Indians

          Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. But in relation to others ... Weak people! Yes, and the prophet Ecclesiastes said: a living dog is better than a dead lion. Although even better said by the Japanese, what bends can then straighten up!
      3. +4
        April 20 2020 20: 29
        What is the faith of the fathers? Temple of Taloka and Huitzilopochtli - how many human hearts were plucked from living people there? Apaches and Comanches from the 17th century, continuing in the 18th and 19th centuries, ravaged the entire north of Mexico. The Spaniards (when Mexico was a Spanish colony) paid Tribute to the Indians from the north, Independent and independent Mexico was too poor and did not give the Comanches and Apaches "gifts" - the Indians in troops of up to 800 "sabers" approached Mexico City at 100-150 km. They ravaged Mexican Texas and the Yankees came there.
        1. +1
          April 21 2020 09: 59
          Kitten, I have not read about this. These are ready-made stories for films or novels. Perhaps you know something about this event?
          1. +1
            April 21 2020 19: 30
            Svyatoslav what are you asking about - about the beliefs of the Aztecs? or about the Indian raids on Mexico? I will not argue about the sacrifices of the Aztec priests - there were sacrifices, a fact, but the number of sacrificed figures is controversial and I do not name it. About the Comanche and Apache raids on Mexico - a fact is also known, you can read the article "Unknown War: How the Indians put Mexico on the brink of disaster" on warhed.su. You can read novels - "The Daughter of Montezuma" by G. R. Haggard and "The White Leader" by Mein Reed, read about the Apaches "Shalako" by Louis Lamour, you will find and read (see) a lot of other books and films yourself.
  10. -4
    April 20 2020 15: 00
    Ours then shot (Shpakovsky) and ripened here. !!! Well on the go cuts off the outsole.
    1. +5
      April 20 2020 15: 03
      I look forward to hearing from you, Alexander. But, by the way, this will come down. The main thing is that the click is.
      1. +4
        April 20 2020 17: 20
        It is said
  11. +3
    April 20 2020 17: 11
    "wide-bladed, like sikirs, the Spaniards supplied the Indians. And they" happened and the Spaniards with them "thanked
    1. +3
      April 20 2020 18: 03
      Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.
      1. +1
        April 20 2020 19: 39
        Quote: kalibr
        Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.

        So it still happens all the time laughing
      2. +3
        April 20 2020 21: 36
        Quote: kalibr
        Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.


        Well, it’s direct, like selling the S-400 complexes to the Turks.
  12. +3
    April 20 2020 17: 19
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: vladcub
    most whites could get along with the Indians,

    I don't think: " Bolivar will not stand two " (C)

    The land of the White Indians was much more necessary than the Indians on them, they were competitors hi

    And that was
  13. +3
    April 20 2020 17: 24
    Quote: kalibr
    Here I am about the same thing, so poor things suffer ...

    They are just learning the "pale brothers".
    1. +2
      April 20 2020 18: 07
      Svyatoslav! You are just ... "asking" for a friendly recommendation to go to the site author. today and ... read my novel "People and Weapons" there. Unless you have already done so. "Sturgeon of the very first freshness"! You will learn a lot about the Indians.
      1. +2
        April 20 2020 18: 14
        V.O., I remember you Astra offered his novel. Interesting she liked him?
        1. +3
          April 20 2020 18: 29
          Svyatoslav! Alas, I strongly suspect that she just did not download it ... And you yourself can ask her why?
  14. +3
    April 20 2020 18: 09
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    Sometimes you look with what frenzy they "beat" each other and even get scared.

    Duck, damn it, Svyatoslav, it’s scary to go to some discussion threads! drinks here we have a corner of the world. Just without a peace pipe laughing

    And don’t say: everyone is so white and fluffy, and then we continue the civil war
  15. +2
    April 20 2020 18: 41
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    First, they "broke in" the "white and fluffy" Incas, then - the same "cute" Spaniards.

    I don’t know about the Incas, but Pedro Valdivia, no matter how he fought, could not win. Moreover, he was captured by the Araucans, was executed, and a flute was made from his bones ... belay The Araucans were never conquered by the Spaniards, and in the 19th century they waged wars with Chile and with Argentina. By the way, from the end of the 16th century, the Araucans had cavalry! soldier

    Angel Della Valle, the painting depicts the return of the "arch-loving Araucan" from the raid. The woman, apparently, is white ... angry

    Quote: kalibr
    Savages are savages!

    I'm afraid that when the Spaniards returned from similar raids, then a similar girl lay across the horse, but red !!! So that....?

    Her fate will be a little better, but in any case, the woman who fell into the hands of the enemy is unhappy
  16. +1
    April 20 2020 18: 43
    Quote: kalibr
    Aster! It has always been that stupid whites supplied the savages with weapons, and then they were beaten by them! But the profit here and now seemed more important.

    Business and nothing personal?
    1. +4
      April 20 2020 19: 29
      Quote: Astra wild
      Business and nothing personal?

      Of course. Many do not look beyond the nose.
  17. 0
    April 20 2020 18: 58
    Quote: Krasnodar
    in general

    Are you about Sciclgruber?
    1. 0
      April 20 2020 20: 02
      And it’s possible the whole phrase, I don’t remember where I wrote it
      1. +1
        April 20 2020 21: 28
        Albert, forgive me, but here is a technical error, I wrote the answer to your comment: "the son of my uncle and niece after an easy walk in Europe." I am in a hurry, what to do 21 in a hurry, but the technique is even more in a hurry
        1. 0
          April 20 2020 21: 36
          Well yes - this is the fruit of incest.
  18. +1
    April 20 2020 21: 41
    Of all the "literary Apaches" I like Tats-a-das-ay-go - The Quick Killer, from the book "Shalako" by Luis Lamour.
  19. 0
    April 21 2020 19: 53
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    and her fate is also a little enviable.

    savages eat savages! That says it all! hi

    Alas you can not argue

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"