Military Review

The Russian Guard is adopting the SR-2MP Veresk submachine gun

199
The Russian Guard is adopting the SR-2MP Veresk submachine gun

The Russian Guard will adopt the SR-2MP submachine gun, an appropriate procedure is currently underway. It is reported by RIA News with reference to the source in power structures.


In the Russian Guard, measures are being taken to take into service the national guard of the Russian Federation 9x21-mm submachine gun SR-2MP

- The interlocutor of the agency said, without going into details.

The submachine gun SR-2MP "Veresk" is a modernized version of the sub-machine gun CP-2M, equipped with Picatinny rails with the possibility of equipping a silencer. Currently, this submachine gun is in service with the FSB and FSO units, as well as some special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

A submachine gun was developed at TsNIITochmash in the city of Klimovsk and was first shown to the public in 1999. Heather was created as weaponcapable of hitting the enemy in individual means of armor of the second class at a distance of 200 m and unarmored vehicles at a distance of up to 100 m

The caliber - 9X21, was originally developed under the powerful cartridge of increased penetration of the design of Serdyukov SP-10. It can use cartridges SP-10 (with a bullet with a special steel core of increased armor penetration), SP-11 (with a low-resilient bullet with a lead core), SP-12 (with an expansive bullet of increased stopping power), SP-13 (with a tracer bullet).

Earlier it was reported about the plans of the Russian Guard to adopt the Lebedev pistol (PL-15) instead of the PM and the RPK-16 light machine gun instead of the outdated RPK-74.
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  1. Teberii
    Teberii April 7 2020 10: 21 New
    0
    All is well, that is in favor.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r April 7 2020 10: 43 New
      +8
      Shot, a gorgeous thing. He shot at the same time from the NK MP-5; Heather was much more liked, more convenient.
      1. cost
        cost April 7 2020 14: 55 New
        +7
        SR-2 Heather:
        The SR-2 Veresk submachine gun was designed by the Klimov FSI TsNIITOCHMASH (Central Scientific Research Institute of Precision Engineering) on ​​instructions from the FSB of Russia in the mid-1990s. For the first time this submachine gun was shown in 1999 under the designation CP-2 (Special Development 2) and the name "Heather". Later, an improved version of it was created, which received the designation SR-2M “Heather” and is distinguished mainly by the presence on the fore-end of the folding front handle for holding weapons with two hands. The 9-mm submachine gun CP-2M is an automatic melee weapon and is designed to destroy manpower, including using personal protective equipment, at ranges of up to 200 m. For shooting, powerful domestic pistol cartridges 9x21 - SP-10 and SP-11.
        Together with the CP.1 pistol, SP-10 and SP-11 cartridges and the “KP SR-2” single-sight collimator sight, the Veresk submachine gun is part of a high-performance rifle complex capable of hitting the enemy in second-class personal protective equipment at a distance of 200 m and unarmored vehicles at a distance of up to 100 m. The SR-2M Veresk provides 100% penetration of a 4-mm steel sheet at a distance of 70 m. The Veresk submachine gun is designed to use various 9x21 mm cartridges: SP10 with steel core armored penetration; SP11 - with a bullet with a lead core; SP12 - with an expansive bullet providing increased stopping power; SP13 - with a tracer bullet. The stopping effect of bullets of cartridges SP-11 and SP-13 is 1,5-2 times higher than that of 9 × 18 PM.





        Specifications SR-2 Heather:
        Caliber: 9 × 21 (SP.10, 7N29 and other options)
        Weapon Length: 603/367 mm
        Barrel length: 173 mm
        Weapon Width: 46 mm
        Weight unloaded: 1,6 kg.
        Rate of Shooting: 900 fps / min
        Magazine capacity: 20 or 30 cartridges
        Specifications SR-2M Heather:
        Caliber: 9 × 21 (SP.10, 7N29 and other options)
        Weapon Length: 603/367 mm
        Barrel length: 172 mm
        Weapon Width: 41 mm
        Weapon height: 190 mm
        Weight unloaded: 1,65 kg.
        Rate of Shooting: 820 fps / min
        Magazine capacity: 20 or 25 cartridges
      2. cost
        cost April 7 2020 15: 03 New
        +3
        the location of the Fuse on the right side is surprising and the shoulder rest is too long in my opinion. Is it convenient?
        I'm not going to hait, I just ask those who used
      3. iouris
        iouris April 7 2020 17: 08 New
        0
        But does he kill does not hurt?
        1. Yurkaza
          Yurkaza April 8 2020 11: 25 New
          +2
          No, patting her shoulder gently.
  2. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA April 7 2020 10: 23 New
    18
    "Ранее сообщалось о планах Росгвардии принять на вооружение пистолет Лебедева (ПЛ-15) вместо ПМ"- Минобороны вроде пистолет "Удав" планировало взять на вооружение, в ФСБ и МВД пистолет Ярыгина уже стоит на вооружении, такая разносортица пистолетов в силовых структурах, зачем? Здравый смысл подсказывает о едином для всех пистолете
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar April 7 2020 10: 59 New
      +9
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      Common sense dictates a uniform pistol for all

      A gun is not a very expensive toy. For police structures in peacetime, having several different models of pistols in service is not a problem. But you can have a weapon that is more suitable for specific tasks, plus conditionally-healthy competition between manufacturers is somehow supported.
      1. CommanderDIVA
        CommanderDIVA April 7 2020 11: 08 New
        +4
        For special services, police structures, I agree, for example, in the police of different states in the USA, but it is economically and strategically more profitable for us to have a single pistol for all security forces (for example Nagan, TT and PM for many years), and for the development of super-healthy competition among Russian manufacturers of pistols to enter the foreign market, I haven’t heard anything about the supply of our pistols to other countries
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar April 7 2020 12: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: CommanderDIVA
          it is economically and strategically more profitable for us to have a single gun for all security officials

          All security officials have their own budgets, so I do not foresee any particular benefits here.

          Quote: CommanderDIVA
          for the development of super-healthy competition among Russian manufacturers of pistols it is necessary to enter the foreign market

          Мечты, мечты... Взглянем правде в глаза: наше "пистолетостроение" на текущем этапе не в той форме, чтобы успешно конкурировать на внешнем рынке. Плюс еще санкции.
          1. itarnmag
            itarnmag April 8 2020 11: 19 New
            +1
            We have not been developing new pistols for so long that we could be left behind forever. And to enter the external oversaturated market is probably already hopeless. Russia has no allies to supply our pistols and submachine guns
        2. vladcub
          vladcub April 7 2020 12: 29 New
          10
          "не слышал негде о поставках наших пистолетов другим странам" в том то и дело,что чуть не пол мира выбрали Глок(благо они идут всех калибров).
          PS.Our pistols are unlikely to compete in the West.
          По моему мнению : нам нужно разрешить короткостволы. Хотя бы "кастрированный" вариант типа:"Байкал"
          1. Shelest2000
            Shelest2000 April 7 2020 14: 17 New
            +5
            Well, so, in all countries, pistols adopted by the army are first practiced on the civilian market - reliability, quality, ease of use, etc. And then the MO of countries selects the appropriate one.
            We do not have such an approach and will not be in connection with the complete absence now and in the future of the arms market in Russia. And not only short-trunks. Alas ...
          2. Catfish
            Catfish April 7 2020 14: 58 New
            10
            Svyatoslav, if you are allowed a short barrel, then the Russian Guard will immediately adopt anti-tank guns. laughing You see that the last is not taken away ...
          3. fk7777777
            fk7777777 April 7 2020 16: 44 New
            0
            That's right Glock, Remington, Colt, Czechs cz, the Germans trying to get there well they get it. Well, perhaps everything from which it is possible to choose something worthwhile for yourself.
        3. Max otto
          Max otto April 7 2020 13: 20 New
          +7
          And do not hear. We don’t have pistols in use, you can’t. Do not sell at home, do not sell abroad.
        4. Archon
          Archon April 9 2020 07: 52 New
          0
          it is economically more profitable for us to give out not a gun, but a stick, as in India.
          (Yes, it’s just a golden dream of the government, and put the saved money on something interesting)
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 7 2020 11: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: Kalmar
        For police structures in peacetime, having several different models of pistols in service is not a problem.

        Rather, even the opposite is a necessity.

        Потому что имеется необходимость и в боевом, и в служебном оружии. Особенно для таких "переходных" структур, как Росгвардия
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon April 7 2020 11: 13 New
      +6
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      such a variety of pistols in law enforcement agencies, why? Common sense dictates a uniform pistol for all

      Главное чтобы боеприпасы были одинаковые. В русской императорской армии офицер мог в качестве личного оружия за свои деньги приобрести понравившийся ему пистолет (револьвер), если штатный "Наган" ему не нравился
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 7 2020 12: 22 New
        +5
        A small clarification: in the RIA, officers could acquire for wearing OUTSIDE. Browning, Colt and a small number of Lugers
        1. Marconi41
          Marconi41 April 7 2020 17: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: vladcub
          A small clarification: in the RIA, officers could acquire for wearing OUTSIDE. Browning, Colt and a small number of Lugers

          Mauser forgot. Although it was expensive, not all officers could afford it, but it was allowed to be worn.
      2. fk7777777
        fk7777777 April 7 2020 16: 47 New
        -3
        A gun is when the clip in the handle is located, and a revolver is when the drum or clip is pulled out of the handle, for example, a Mauser.
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon April 7 2020 17: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: fk7777777
          The gun is when the clip in the handle is

          But am I against it? request
        2. vladcub
          vladcub April 9 2020 13: 14 New
          +1
          Actually, a revolver is a movement (French). There are ready charges in the drum and after each shot the drum rotates giving a new charge. Now almost ALL 6 revolvers are charging.
          In the Republic of Ingushetia, the city policemen were armed with 6 charging revolvers. Smith Honestly with a round bullet, and the army relied on the 7th loading revolver Nagan.
          The gun cartridges are in the store. The store is located in the handle, less often in front of the trigger. Mauser, Zimell, Staer.
          Магазин в рукоятке практичнее: пистолет компактнее и лучше сбалансированный. Обо всем этом советую: Федосеев,"Все пистолеты мира"и Жук:" Пистолеты, револьверы. Винтовки, автоматы". Лично мне Жук показался лучше: больше иллюстраций ( выполнил сам автор)
    3. vladcub
      vladcub April 7 2020 12: 08 New
      +5
      Actually, the topic is: PM receiver, it has been said a thousand times. Clearly hurried with Yarygin
      1. Marconi41
        Marconi41 April 7 2020 17: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: vladcub
        Clearly hurried with Yarygin

        Definitely!
    4. YOUR
      YOUR April 7 2020 12: 25 New
      +1
      Most likely they will go into service in a small amount, exclusively for specialists. But in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Penitentiary Service, and the Russian Guard, it’s really a assortment of pistols; You watch the programs, well, at least with Badyuk, which is only in the FSIN and the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub April 8 2020 12: 44 New
        0
        Baduk is a good author, but it would be great if there would be a similar author. I do not know this
        1. YOUR
          YOUR April 10 2020 05: 24 New
          0
          The Baduk is only transmitting in which various types of weapons are in service. Mostly FSIN. Apparently I was able to agree with them on the filming of the provision of weapons and a shooting range. In his broadcasts they showed GSh-18, ПЯ, ОЦ-33, ОЦ-27 all this is in service with the FSIN, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Russian Guard.
          We are talking about a large number of models of pistols. The same thing with submachine guns, the same with combat shotguns with huge stores. All this is in service with the special forces and apparently not only. If a special forces colonel talks about how great it would be to use a smoothbore with such huge stores against the crowd (????????)
    5. Nemo
      Nemo April 7 2020 12: 30 New
      +3
      There is no longer the difference between the pistols, but the difference in caliber between the pistols and the PP. The submarine 9x19, the SR-2MP 9x21. The question is, why did this?
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar April 7 2020 12: 36 New
        +3
        Quote: Nemo
        The question is, why did this?

        It seems like it was meant that 9x19 is just a gun, and 9x21 is of increased power and penetration, for special tasks (when there is reason to believe that the enemy is actively using bulletproof vests). The validity of this approach at the moment raises some questions: he commented a little niche about the energy of these two calibers. Perhaps in the future there will be some even more strengthened 9x21.
        1. fk7777777
          fk7777777 April 7 2020 16: 49 New
          +1
          And why didn’t they like 9/25?
    6. venik
      venik April 7 2020 13: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      Common sense dictates a uniform pistol for all

      ========
      Common sense tells you just the opposite: a universal personal weapon always worse specialized! The power structures have too different requirements: the army needs a powerful, reliable, unpretentious (in field условиях), дальнобойное оружие большой убойной силы (габариты - на втором месте),МВД - наоборот компактное оружие (пригодное для скрытого ношения), с сильным останавливающим действием, у спецназа, росгвардии и спецслужб - свои требования (в соответствии с выполняемыми задачами)..... Сделать "один для всех" - получится "ни то ни сё": нечто, что НИКОГО не устраивает, причем по different reasons ...
      1. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev April 7 2020 13: 53 New
        +1
        А теперь берем "Глок" и смотрим на всю линейку от 17 до 23. Один на всех.
        1. venik
          venik April 7 2020 14: 03 New
          +5
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          А теперь берем "Глок" и смотрим на всю линейку от 17 до 23. Один на всех.

          ========
          Do you think that Glock-17 is convenient for hidden wearing ??? They made us laugh, they made us laugh! This is a purely army weapon, it will fit well for special police forces (open wearing) laughing
          Ну а насчет "линейки от 17 до 23", так объясните, какая такая ПРИНЦИПИАЛЬНАЯ разница в том иметь ли на вооружении 4 разных модели ОДНОЙ фирмы или 4 модели РАЗНЫХ фирм? request
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar April 7 2020 15: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: venik
            what is such a PRINCIPAL difference in having 4 different models of ONE firm or 4 models of DIFFERENT firms in service?

            Разница достаточно большая: у разных модификаций "Глока" достигнута хорошая взаимозаменяемость по запчастям и аксессуарам, что так-то довольно практично.

            Другое дело, что сравнивать "Глок" и тот же ПЯ - дело пустое. Нет у ПЯ такого же количества модификаций под разные задачи (компактная, полноразмерная, разные калибры и т.п.), так что пихать его одного во все подразделения всех силовых структур нерационально.
            1. venik
              venik April 7 2020 15: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: Kalmar
              Разница достаточно большая: у разных модификаций "Глока" достигнута хорошая взаимозаменяемость по запчастям и аксессуарам, что так-то довольно практично.

              =======
              Ну, вообще-то достигнуть по аксессуарам достаточно просто - просто проговорить это (стандарты) в техзадании (например - те же "планки Пиккатини"). С запчастями - да, согласен.... Но вот только сильно сомневаюсь, что у армейского "Глок-17" и пистолета "скрытого ношения" "Глок-43" Вы найдете много "взаимозаменяемых запчастей" .... Очень сомневаюсь!! Это совершенно разные модели, разработанные под разные требования.... Только некоторое внешнее сходство - скорее "фиренный стиль" фирмы Глок сохраняется.
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 7 2020 16: 09 New
                0
                Quote: venik
                it’s easy to reach the accessories - just say it (standards) in the terms of reference

                В теории сделать хороший пистолет "убийцу Глока" в принципе реально: ничего радикально нового в данной отрасли не появляется; повторить существующие решения вполне возможно. Только все равно удается далеко не всем.
            2. vladcub
              vladcub April 8 2020 13: 10 New
              0
              сравнивать"Глок" и тот же ПЯ дело пустое. Согласен это не сопоставимые пистолеты . Глок имеет ВСЕ размеры и калибры,а Ярыгин один размер и калибр. Фиг с ним,что он великоват, но качество с Горшком и рядом не лежал! Вот в чем дело.
              I already think sometimes: if we don’t have a 100% reliable pistol, maybe there is a reason to take a western pistol? I agree Gaston will be a little expensive, but is Hehler, ChZ?
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 8 2020 22: 17 New
                0
                Quote: vladcub
                I already think sometimes: if we don’t have a 100% reliable pistol, maybe there is a reason to take a western pistol?

                Резон есть, но нельзя забывать, что "западный пистолет" - это продукция вероятного противника. Помимо чисто психологических и идеологических моментов, тут возникает масса политических рисков: любой контракт на поставку пистолетов может внезапно сорваться из-за каких-нибудь новых санкций.

                Ну а потенциальная локализация производства "западной" модели неизбежно упрется в суровые реалии российской промышленности. Как в том анекдоте про завод "Мерседеса" на месте "АвтоВАЗа" в Тольятти:
                - Я же говорил - место проклятое! А ты все: "Руки кривые, руки кривые".
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub April 9 2020 14: 02 New
                  0
                  По поводу" кривых рук". Револьвер Наган " родился"в Льеже(Бельгия"), а производился в Туле
                  Швейная машина" Подолка"- "Зингер". Карабин "Медведь-3" охотничий Винчестер
          2. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev April 7 2020 15: 03 New
            +1
            Разница в цене покупки и обслуживания в рамках одного ведомства. А "Глоки" есть всех размеров и очень многих калибров.
            1. venik
              venik April 7 2020 15: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              The difference in the purchase and service prices within one agency.

              =======
              Во-первых - цена разных моделей "Глок" - тоже сильно различается.
              Во-вторых - зачем спрашивается одному ведомству больше 2 разных моделей? Например: Зачем военным компактный пистолет скрытого ношения? И зачем полиции тяжелая армейская "бандура"?
              And in general - this folly считать, что все "глоки" (от 17-го, до 43-го суть одинаковы по конструкции - это все different some models have interchangeable units, some differ from each other, like pistols of different companies) .....
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar April 7 2020 16: 16 New
                +1
                Quote: venik
                Во-первых - цена разных моделей "Глок" - тоже сильно различается.

                And this is logical.

                Quote: venik
                Secondly - why is it asked to one department for more than 2 different models?

                Mm, for different tasks? Say in the Ministry of Internal Affairs:
                - a gun for hidden wearing: as compact as possible;
                - let's just say just a service gun: slightly heavy, moderately compact;
                - pistol for special forces (SOBR): increased power and capacity of the store, the ability to install additional devices (LCC, silencer, etc.).

                Quote: venik
                это глупость считать, что все "глоки" (от 17-го, до 43-го суть одинаковы по конструкции

                Про "одинаковые" никто и не говорил. Но общего очень много: одинаковые УСМ (кроме моделей с автоогнем), одинаковый узел запирания, совместимые двухрядные магазины и т.п.
              2. Zeev Zeev
                Zeev Zeev April 7 2020 19: 11 New
                0
                Some are different. And for most, the difference is many details are exactly the same.
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 7 2020 10: 24 New
    +4
    Какой мощный патрон! Куда сильнее даже 9х19 "Пара"... Русское оружие и должно быть таким - мощным и неприхотливым. Да и незачем Росгвардии с Калашами бегать. Не армейцы.
    Так и "Удав" приняли, под тот же патрон... Долгое время у нас основным пистолетным был "слабый" Макаровский...а теперь будет более мощный чем "Парабеллум" 9х21? Да и неплохо это, ИМХО.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar April 7 2020 11: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Какой мощный патрон! Куда сильнее даже 9х19 "Пара"

      Correction: potentially much stronger. So there are 9x19 options with energy quite at the 9x21 level: about 630-640 J (about the same as stated for 9x21).
    2. hohkn
      hohkn April 7 2020 14: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And there is no reason for the Rosgvardia to run with Kalash. Not CSKA.

      And even in the North Caucasus? I do not agree. Better Kalash is not yet armed.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub April 8 2020 13: 52 New
      0
      " мощным и неприхотливым"я добавлю НАДЕЖНЫМ.. ПЯ этим не может похвастаться . У нас умели делать надёжные оружие: Наган, надёжный до безобразия, трёхлинейка, АК или"Макар" оружие которому можно было 100% доверять, а Ярыгин разве такой? У Бадюка слышал, что у ПЯ магазин часто ломается
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar April 8 2020 22: 24 New
        0
        Quote: vladcub
        RELIABLE .. PY this can not boast

        In fairness, it's not so bad there.

        Firstly, there was a stage of childhood diseases; everyone passes through it. Read the story of the creation of AK: he also did not immediately find his legendary reliability. And as far as I know, the shop at PY was redone.

        Во-вторых, туго шло освоение промышленностью: привычные методы в духе "потом напильником доточим" плохо совместимы с современным оружием. Говорят, сейчас Ижмех стал за качеством следить повнимательнее.

        В-третьих, параллельно с ПЯ промышленность осваивала новый боеприпас - 9х19. И тут тоже все было непросто: качество патронов порой было пугающим. Очевидно, что с паршивыми патронами даже "Глок" будет клинить через раз.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub April 9 2020 12: 06 New
          +1
          In fact, high-quality cartridges mean a lot. As a child, I remember that my grandfather had a Izhevsk double-barreled barrel and 12 shells were still pre-revolutionary and he always equipped them himself. Then, ready-made with a paper sleeve appeared on sale. He ignored them, but it was not clear to me: what for do you mind fooling outfitting ammunition if there are any ready ones?
  4. BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY April 7 2020 10: 31 New
    -11
    That's good.
    Rosguard needs to be strengthened to the maximum.
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara April 7 2020 10: 35 New
      12
      Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
      That's good.
      Rosguard needs to be strengthened to the maximum.

      What for?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 7 2020 10: 40 New
        -12
        Quote: Vol4ara
        Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
        That's good.
        Rosguard needs to be strengthened to the maximum.

        What for?



        What do you mean why???
        Narot fight!
        1. Pereira
          Pereira April 7 2020 11: 00 New
          -4
          In April, the people stocks up, small and medium-sized businesses go bankrupt.
          We look forward to demonstrations in May in support of Putin and United Russia.
          Then the Rosguard will protect these peaceful demonstrations from the evil mercenaries of the West, Navalnyat, grant-eaters and other skakuaz.
          Ammo will require a lot.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 7 2020 11: 15 New
            +3
            Quote: Pereira
            We look forward to demonstrations in May in support of Putin and United Russia.

            And if you do not wait, do you eat your cap?
            1. Pereira
              Pereira April 7 2020 12: 00 New
              -5
              Can't wait for a demonstration in support of Putin?
              I have already seen THIS.

              My cap may not be afraid of me.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov April 7 2020 12: 10 New
                +7
                Quote: Pereira
                My cap may not be afraid of me.

                That is, do not eat.
                For they are not ready to answer for their words in principle ...
                Accepted.
                1. Pereira
                  Pereira April 7 2020 20: 18 New
                  -3
                  Your righteous anger and unshakable optimism inspire me with faith (pretty much squandered over the past decades) in the bright future.
                  Not everything is lost in the country if there are such people.
                  Threat Minus is not mine.
        2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
          Evgeny Ivanov_5 April 7 2020 11: 54 New
          0
          Then on the contrary, you need PKM, AK, AGS, etc.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 7 2020 12: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
            Then on the contrary, you need PKM, AK, AGS, etc.

            They have it all.
        3. Piramidon
          Piramidon April 7 2020 12: 26 New
          +6
          Quote: Spade
          Narot fight!

          That's when, God forbid, terrorists take over your family, you will shout differently, not with three, but with a hundred exclamation points.
    2. Saratoga833
      Saratoga833 April 7 2020 10: 45 New
      +1
      Rosguard should not be strengthened, but disbanded, and their illiterate chief, a specialist in cabbage and other vegetables, should be demoted and put on trial by a military court for theft! For the tasks of this Military Search there are Internal Troops.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 7 2020 10: 52 New
        +4
        Quote: Saratoga833
        Rosguard should not be strengthened, but disbanded

        I categorically support the handshake.

        Quote: Saratoga833
        For the tasks of this Military Search there are Internal Troops.

        Paragraph
        laughing laughing laughing

        You just offered to disband them
        Internal Troops became part of the Russian Guard at the stage of its formation
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 7 2020 15: 32 New
          +5
          Quote: Spade
          Internal Troops became part of the Russian Guard at the stage of its formation

          Я бы даже сказал, её основой. На которую дополнительно навесили ФГУП "Охрана", ОМОН и СОБР.

          People simply do not understand that the Rosguard is a usual rebranding of explosives with the removal of them from the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Nobody created anything again - they simply shuffled the existing cards.
          1. itarnmag
            itarnmag April 8 2020 11: 23 New
            0
            How the police were renamed the police. The same eggs, only side view
      2. Artunis
        Artunis April 7 2020 11: 09 New
        11
        Yeah, and also put pots on the item replacing the head and gallop to the whisker under the distribution of cookies from uncles and aunts who will certainly support you!
      3. Evgeny Ivanov_5
        Evgeny Ivanov_5 April 7 2020 11: 55 New
        +3
        Have you seen this BB? They have long been gone.
  5. Cowbra
    Cowbra April 7 2020 10: 35 New
    -2
    У вереска в руководстве - "допустимо" СП-патроны использовать. Подчеркиваю - не нормат, но мона... коль нана
  6. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb April 7 2020 10: 45 New
    +1
    into service with units of the FSB and FSO, as well as some special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    There are already no such units in the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 7 2020 10: 49 New
    +1
    The shoulder rest looks flimsy somehow.
    1. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 7 2020 11: 12 New
      -1
      Да там и боковой проволочный бы вполне подошел-"пукалка"
  8. Free wind
    Free wind April 7 2020 10: 51 New
    -2
    Expansive, explosive, bullets in the army, can not be used against the enemy. Yes, and just try to apply. And you can against your own.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 7 2020 10: 56 New
      +8
      Quote: Free Wind
      And you can against your own.

      Смотря кто "свои".
      К примеру, если для Вас "свои" это люди, захватившие заложников в самолёте, то... заранее сочувствую.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 7 2020 11: 44 New
        -3
        Quote: Spade
        К примеру, если для Вас "свои" это люди, захватившие заложников в самолёте, то... заранее сочувствую.

        For example, in the Soviet Union to combat terrorists who hijacked an airplane or what other objects existed:
        Office "A" ("Alpha") of the KGB of the USSR - was the first anti-terrorist unit of the USSR;
        Vympel is a “strategic” special forces unit of the First Main Directorate of the KGB of the USSR (foreign intelligence), trained, including in operations at special facilities (such as nuclear power plants);

        And, MOST IMPORTANT, None of the SOVIET CITIZEN had doubts or questions regarding the arming of these people !!!
        As to their command. And the people themselves, who served in special forces, evoked only respect and pride, for their professionalism and existence itself.
        The command, which keeps in the state of bone-breakers, who can beat women and other teenagers with batons without any need, as well as the employees of this formation, who consider such a struggle against dissent the norm, stands on the other hand from the line that separates people in uniform - real defenders , from the "holdord".
        Therefore, sincere curiosity about the need for just such a weapon from just such ... people involved is justified and, as the discussion of the article showed, is in demand ...
        hi
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 7 2020 12: 08 New
          +5
          Quote: ROSS 42
          For example, in the Soviet Union to combat terrorists who hijacked an airplane or what other objects existed:

          Ага.
          And also the USSR had Internal Troops. To fight with your own people.
          There was also such a Soviet invention as riot police. October 3, 1988 they appeared. Also to fight with their own people
          И да, знаменитый "демократизатор", ПР-73, принята на вооружение, как следует из её названия, в 1973 году. Для чего? Угадайте... Правильно, для борьбы с собственным народом.


          Quote: ROSS 42
          Therefore, sincere curiosity about the need for just such a weapon from just such ... people involved is justified and, as the discussion of the article showed, is in demand ...

          Мне приходилось пересекаться с этими "держимордами". На блоке на восточной окраине Уруса. Как раз Комсомольское штурмовали, ну а этих вырвавшийся за кольцо оцепления "народ" каждую ночь тиранил. Подствольники, "Мухи", весь бетон в подпалинах. Глаза у ОМОНовцев красные, как у кроликов. Каждую, блин, ночь в инакомыслящих стреляли...

          And those are such little things ... Bearded ... They are children, they should have been given a little frolic ...
        2. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 7 2020 13: 02 New
          0
          Именно ваши любимы коммунисты и создали первый ОМОН, в Ленинграде, первый секретарь обкома Гидаспов. Основная цель при создании - ПРЕСЕЧЕНИЕ МАССОВЫХ БЕСПОРЯДКОВ!!! То есть, для борьбы С ВАМИ!!! В городе Революции!!! "Кошмар"!
          И для дальнейшего вашего развития - первые отделы и Управление по борьбе с орг.преступностью ("6-ые отделы") тоже создавались во времена СССР!!!
          "В СССР сек ...са нет, наркотиков нет, преступности нет".....
          1. hohkn
            hohkn April 7 2020 14: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Okolotochny
            first departments

            Where is this from? The Ministry of Internal Affairs never had the first departments.
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny April 7 2020 17: 37 New
              +1
              Where is this from? The Ministry of Internal Affairs never had the first departments.

              It is necessary to read more carefully - the first departments and the Office for Combating Organized Crime (6th departments).
              Fershteyn? In the USSR, the first, not the First Glavki.
              1. hohkn
                hohkn April 9 2020 20: 09 New
                -1
                Quote: Okolotochny
                It is necessary to read more carefully - the first departments and the Office for Combating Organized Crime (6th departments).

                I have more than 32 years of calendar service, of which almost 25 are in the fifth department of the Organized Crime Control Department (the 6th department in girlhood). So do not write nonsense about the first departments in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. There is an OD&R, but there are no first departments and never has been.
                1. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny April 9 2020 21: 36 New
                  0
                  You can see in Ubop they were only sitting on paperwork, stapling pieces of paper, not on operational work. Are you familiar with the Russian language? The first in the USSR, that is, especially for clerks - In the first 6th departments and administrations created in the USSR, turn on the brains, clerk.
                  1. hohkn
                    hohkn April 10 2020 13: 21 New
                    0
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    Are you familiar with the Russian language?

                    It seems you are not familiar with him.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    turn on the brains, clerk.

                    Turn on yours, delusional.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    They sat only at paperwork, sewed pieces of paper, and not at operational work

                    Actually, in the area he started with opera. And before you offend to try, think about it, and maybe fly back.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    The first in the USSR, that is, especially for clerks

                    I already wrote to you - there were no first departments in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Paperwork went through ODiR.
                    There were no subdivisions in the 6th department, and in the Organized Crime Control Department, the 1st department was far from dealing with paperwork.
                2. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny April 9 2020 21: 41 New
                  -1
                  And, for the clerks, you’re Mr. Lieutenant - at first there were no Ubopov, ORB were created, then there were exclusively Regional departments for combating organized crime - RUBOPs, and then, in the local headquarters, they created parallel Ubopy, wrap around.
                  1. hohkn
                    hohkn April 10 2020 13: 26 New
                    0
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    wrap around.

                    Learn the letter first.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    At first there were no Ubopov, ORB were created

                    And does that change anything? They were just not called. 6th department, ORB, UOP, UBOP, UBOPiK, then again UBOP.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    then there were exclusively Regional departments for the fight against organized crime - RUBOPs, and then, in the local headquarters, they created parallel Ubops

                    You found it on some crazy site. The full-time structure comes at the same time both to leading and subordinate structures.
                    And, for that matter, then in the same 1993, for example, there was already OOP, but there were no RUOPs in sight. RUOPs appeared when this entire structure was removed from the subordination of the heads of the subjects. Learn the materiel, and you will be happy.
        3. Zeev Zeev
          Zeev Zeev April 7 2020 14: 01 New
          -4
          В 1979 году "Альфа" убила дружественного лидера дружественного государства.
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard April 7 2020 16: 54 New
            +4
            Quote: Zeev Zeev
            В 1979 году "Альфа" убила дружественного лидера дружественного государства.

            No need to juggle. I think that they are far from your allies ... repeat
            1. Zeev Zeev
              Zeev Zeev April 7 2020 19: 12 New
              -3
              Hafizullah Amin, like the rulers of Afghanistan before him, were loyal to their northern neighbor.
          2. 3danimal
            3danimal April 8 2020 07: 30 New
            +1
            You are wrong: in the newspaper Pravda then wrote that Amin was executed by the angry Afghan people. smile
        4. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 7 2020 16: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          For example, in the Soviet Union to combat terrorists who hijacked an airplane or what other objects existed:

          Я так понимаю, что про учебные роты и батальоны специального назначения ВВ МВД СССР Вы ничего не слышали? Корни того же "Витязя" - это УРСН на базе 9-й роты 3-го батальона 2-го полка ОМСДОН им. Ф. Дзержинского.
          The fight against terrorism and the release of hostages in the USSR was dealt not only with the Office, but also with the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      2. Free wind
        Free wind April 7 2020 11: 59 New
        +1
        they will not send the Nazarde to release the hostages, the FSB spetsnaz will go.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 7 2020 12: 14 New
          +2
          Quote: Free Wind
          they will not send the Nazarde to release the hostages, the FSB spetsnaz will go.

          Well, of course...
          Оцепят ППСниками, и будут ждать прилёта "спезнац ФСБ". Пока дождутся, глядишь и ситуация рассосётся в связи со смертью заложников...
        2. prodi
          prodi April 7 2020 13: 16 New
          -2
          Rosguard (USSR VV) and other ... - this is, above all, a counterweight to the army, for the authorities;
          борьба с народом второстепенна, однако полностью её списать или переложить "борьбу с народом" на армию ещё хуже
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 April 7 2020 14: 06 New
            0
            The USSR VV was weak as a counterweight to the SA.
            1. prodi
              prodi April 7 2020 15: 47 New
              -1
              ну, это, да, хотя там были и другие инструменты. Тут главное принцип: определённое количество "деревянных" людей уравновешиватся другим количеством
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 7 2020 17: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Sergej1972
              The USSR VV was weak as a counterweight to the SA.

              Under Yeltsin it was like that.
              For example, the army was kept in a black body; VVshnikov never had any breaks in issuing money. allowances. Well and so on.
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 7 2020 17: 39 New
                +6
                VVshnikov never had a break in issuing den. allowances.

                Это, мягко говоря НЕПРАВДА. Зачем обманывать форумчан? Трех-четырех месячный "задел" (задержка), как у всех.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 7 2020 17: 30 New
            +1
            Quote: prodi
            Rosguard (USSR VV) and other ... - this is, above all, a counterweight to the army

            You are 20 years late with this statement ... Then, yes, indeed a counterbalance.
        3. hohkn
          hohkn April 7 2020 14: 30 New
          -1
          Quote: Free Wind
          they will not send the Nazarde to release the hostages, the FSB spetsnaz will go.

          Заложников в регионах будет освобождать СОБР. В каких-то особых случаях и "Альфа" прилетит. У них оснащение всё-таки получше будет.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny April 7 2020 17: 41 New
            +2
            Hostages in the regions will release SOBR.

            SOBR units are now in the structure of the Russian Guard. I wrote to you above, do not try to seem smarter.
            1. hohkn
              hohkn April 9 2020 20: 12 New
              -1
              Quote: Okolotochny
              I already wrote to you above, do not try to seem smarter.

              I also wrote above about the place of service to you. So I know the tasks of SOBR firsthand. You write nonsense with a serious look, not knowing the realities.
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny April 9 2020 21: 31 New
                -1
                I served these years with these “realities”. Stop writing your drunken heresy.
                1. hohkn
                  hohkn April 10 2020 13: 16 New
                  0
                  Do not know the actual service, do not carry your nonsense to the masses.
        4. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 7 2020 21: 16 New
          +3
          Quote: Free Wind
          they will not send the Nazarde to release the hostages, the FSB spetsnaz will go.

          The opinion of the amateur. request
  9. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor April 7 2020 10: 56 New
    0
    Oh, now we have such a bunch of pp, on a voyage even far over a dozen will pass ...
  10. Atlant-1164
    Atlant-1164 April 7 2020 11: 04 New
    +1
    I want to remind you that the Russian Guard is not created to fight against an external enemy .. but to fight dissent and freethinkers among our people .. so let's think about who this submachine gun is against.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny April 7 2020 12: 14 New
      0
      Against yours - pan-horse horses.
      What did you think?
      1. Atlant-1164
        Atlant-1164 April 7 2020 12: 26 New
        0
        you can’t help anymore .. metastases went to the head.
      2. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor April 8 2020 02: 21 New
        0
        Unfortunately, even batons and gas are not really used against our horses.
  11. DPN
    DPN April 7 2020 11: 11 New
    -1
    Why are there not enough batons? For the rest, there is the Army.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 7 2020 11: 21 New
      11
      Quote: DPN
      Why are there not enough batons? For the rest, there is the Army.

      Introduced, and choked on chicory ...
      An army liberating hostages with tanks.
      Army conducting a search for runaway ZK.
      Армия, обеспечивающая безопасность на концерте "Модерн Токинг"
      Army guarding a nuclear power plant.

      Mother-mother-mother .... They are already trying to make a branch of the Ministry of Emergencies from the Army. If you also assign the functions of the Russian Guard to it, then by its main purpose it will stupidly forget how to act ...
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 7 2020 17: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        An army liberating hostages with tanks.

        Yeah ... welcome to the village of Pervomaisk.
        Quote: Spade
        Army conducting a search for runaway ZK.

        - Runaways found in such a square!
        - And sprinkle them, Alyoshenka, with chalk Well, here’s the Read has a lot to do.

        Quote: Spade
        Армия, обеспечивающая безопасность на концерте "Модерн Токинг"

        Today in the hall there were only lying places. laughing
        Quote: Spade
        Army guarding a nuclear power plant.

        Yeah ... especially considering the nuances of the possibility of using weapons by the military inside the country without introducing an emergency regime.
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal April 8 2020 07: 33 New
        -1
        In Venezuela, the army was assigned to engage in oil production, dispersing lousy intellectuals and techies. Great experience that we should learn from good
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar April 8 2020 08: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: 3danimal
          In Venezuela, the army was assigned to engage in oil production, dispersing lousy intellectuals and techies. Great experience that we should learn from

          Exactly, the Sechinsky freaks are not enough for us, we’ll finish the oil industry in the army way))
  12. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet April 7 2020 11: 27 New
    -3
    invented a lot of things .. you just need to revive the production of PPS-43 and that's it ...
  13. parkello
    parkello April 7 2020 11: 32 New
    +1
    as for me, the PL-15 is a very good pistol for the police, but it’s better to give the Boa constrictor to Rosgvardia so that there would be no confusion with the ammunition for the SR. and I really like the PL as a weapon.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal April 8 2020 07: 37 New
      0
      Not better to produce under license CZ or Glock? And then to establish the production of a replica, say, under the name P ...- 17.
      We stepped on the rake more than once, but in the 50s, instead of the PM, it was possible to copy the standard Browning HP, much like the Para cartridge. It generally could not be changed now.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar April 8 2020 08: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: 3danimal
        Not better to produce under license CZ or Glock?

        Возможно. Хотя бы в порядке той самой здоровой конкуренции, о которой тут где-то говорили. Правда, есть некоторые сомнения, что тот же Ижмех сможет на своих мощностях делать "Глоки" или CZты с должным уровнем качества. Создавать же новое производство чисто под эти цели - дорого и рискованно в условиях отсутствия достаточно емкого и устойчивого рынка сбыта. Вот если бы гражданским КС наконец-то разрешили... Но это все мечты.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 8 2020 12: 32 New
          0
          Alas .. The impression is that our authorities are afraid of armed citizens, as well as actively defending themselves.
          I agree, as world practice shows, the civilian market is driving development. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to privatize a number of enterprises and create conditions (legislation) for the emergence of new private ones.
      2. parkello
        parkello April 8 2020 11: 36 New
        0
        What does it have to do, and PM? here the question is what they will buy. as for me, what they like for their work, they’ll even get it. although Glock is at least an emergency, even a submarine. just for convenience said that it’s better to take a boa constrictor, one cartridge for both samples. and here it turns out two: Luger 9 * 19mm and 9 * 21mm Serdyukov. that before Browning High Power, it was earlier copied and modified by PM even before .see TT. and cartridges .. what could they produce and adopted. they weren’t their own. They were more true, but for Nagan. Now a lot has changed, they can take what they like themselves. And not what the leadership of the Central Committee approved. when they were leading from the Central Committee, all production was state-owned, and they decided with an eye on the possibilities of the country as a whole. Now private shops want to blind under Luger, want to work under 40 Zmit-Wesson. The participant also needs to live on something .. like- then pay taxes. and to copy High Power a lot of brains are not necessary, the main thing is that your hands would grow from where you need to. The weapon starts with a cartridge. and if the cartridge is universal, then the weapon is selected accordingly. Luger there are different cartridges for marking. one psitolet works well with relatives, the other with reinforced ones with the NATO designation. and here both samples will eat one cartridge. deliveries will not reach intermittently.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar April 8 2020 12: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: parkello
          just for convenience said that it’s better to take a boa constrictor, one cartridge for both samples

          It seems to me that the problem of different ammunition in peacetime is somewhat far-fetched. In the end, now, in fact, 9x18 and 9x19 are both in use by the security forces, and it is not audible that this would seriously disturb anyone.

          Quote: parkello
          and now private shops, they want to blind under Luger, they want under 40 Zmit-Wesson

          It is not easy with private shops: obtaining licenses is difficult, there are many risks (primarily legal), the sales market is very limited and peculiar.
          1. parkello
            parkello April 8 2020 12: 10 New
            0
            in peacetime, and how long will it last, is it peacetime? what about private traders, they can do whatever they want if it leaves for export. By the way, the submarine belongs to them. if weapons are not sold primarily for export, then there’s nothing to grow at home already. and the PL-15 is a good pistol, I like it. but a private person and I proceed from the fact that it would be easy to get cartridges. and the Russian Guard is BB. were explosives became Rosguard, and they would have suited cartridges more powerful than Luger. but they want to promote the submarines let them move. maybe it will be exported soon. if I served I would choose Boa. and I would buy a submarine anyway, I like it. but I would take Boa for service. the cartridge is powerful, the armor pierces.
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal April 8 2020 12: 42 New
              0
              7n31 is the most “punchy” as far as I know.
            2. Kalmar
              Kalmar April 8 2020 12: 52 New
              +1
              Quote: parkello
              in peacetime, and how long will it last, is it peacetime?

              So far, there is no reason to go to martial law. There will be military time - then part of the armaments can be abandoned in favor of logistics.

              Quote: parkello
              what about private traders, then they can do whatever they want if export goes

              There is high competition on foreign markets, and the same legal risks arising from the peculiarities of Russian law and enforcement do not disappear. Few people are really ready to fit into this story. Plus sanctions, yes.

              Quote: parkello
              if weapons are not sold primarily for export, then there’s nothing to grow at home

              Ну почему? Те же "Сайги" и "Вепри" сейчас на экспорт почти не идут, а вот на российском рынке пользуются более-менее устойчивым спросом. Тут играют роль цена и доступность сопутствующих товаров (запчасти, аксессуары).

              Quote: parkello
              were explosives became Rosguard, and they would have suited cartridges more powerful than Luger

              Про это уже писал: "Люгер" вполне можно догнать по мощности до текущих 9х21. Опять же, сильно зависит от задач, а их перечень у РГ довольно широкий. Скажем, для разгона пенсионеров "Удав" точно избыточен.

              Quote: parkello
              for the service would have taken Boa constrictor. the cartridge is powerful, the armor pierces.

              It depends on what service. I doubt very much that every Russian guard regularly encounters terrorists chained in armor; for such clients there are corresponding units within the WG.
              1. parkello
                parkello April 8 2020 13: 00 New
                +1
                Saigi and Vepri sold quite a lot abroad, especially to the gendarmerie and the police. our cops saig 12 have. and there are many on hand, especially in villages that are closer to Bulgaria or to the Albanian border. I know 4-5 people, hunters, bought Saigi. it’s just that we and the hunters are not so many. and Saiga is a good shotgun, with all the nozzles in general sweetie. chok, mok ... paradox. who understands the weapons they immediately bought. and a running cartridge 12 * 76mm Magnum. now about terrorists in armor ... it may not be in armor, but it’s quite beyond the shelter of stone or brick. so it’s better to have more powerful weapons than regret later.
                1. Kalmar
                  Kalmar April 8 2020 14: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: parkello
                  Saigi and Vepri sold quite a bit abroad, especially to the gendarmerie and the police

                  За полицию и жандармерию не знаю, вряд ли много "саёг" под это дело продалось. Факт в том, что экспорт этих ружбаек давно прикрыт санкциями. Но вон делают же до сих пор.

                  Quote: parkello
                  Saiga is a good gun, with all the nozzles in general sweetie

                  I don’t argue, he himself has one. True, there are many questions on the quality of manufacturing: walks in a fairly wide range. Export samples, of course, were licked and checked more thoroughly.

                  Quote: parkello
                  about terrorists in armor ... in armor it may not be, but behind a shelter made of stone or brick it’s quite

                  Здесь вам и "Удав" не помощник. Тут уже надо в сторону .44 Magnum и .50 АЕ смотреть ))
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal April 8 2020 12: 41 New
          -3
          TT - a crooked copy of the M1911 under another cartridge. With all the flaws. Therefore, ideally it was to produce under license first. The stupid and dangerous policy of the Union, with religious goals, to convert more countries to communism, spending a lot of resources with a very small (economy) exhaust, greatly interfered with it.
          1. parkello
            parkello April 8 2020 12: 47 New
            +1
            Well already what was it was. there was a lot of curve. but now times have changed. it’s a pity that the majority of old habits remained. but also pass. by the way Colt 1911 itself is also a copy of the same Browning. only under your patron. Browning was originally at 7,65 .. my friend had one. old, old .. during the Balkan wars. from the partisans remained. either from the Greeks or from the Italian communists. cartridge from Mauser, the same TT.
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal April 8 2020 17: 02 New
              0
              M1911 copy of an earlier pistol.
              The 13-charge HP is much more efficient and flexible than both the 1911 and PM.
  14. faterdom
    faterdom April 7 2020 11: 41 New
    +2
    Does anyone know why at the Picatinny Rail Station? To put a camcorder there for shooting from around the corner?
    1. Bacha
      Bacha April 7 2020 12: 04 New
      +1
      LTSU, very convenient.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 April 7 2020 12: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: Bacha
        LTSU, very convenient.

        Not really, rather .. Even more so .. in the dark, dust the beam gives off a radiation source ..
        But the collimator .. on such distance is very convenient.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal April 8 2020 07: 39 New
          0
          The Picattini collimator makes the gun bulky. Another thing is a compact open, with the installation instead of the rear sight.
          The lantern is often hung on the lower bar.
    2. hhurik
      hhurik April 7 2020 12: 31 New
      +1
      I can not imagine a modern rifle without the ability to easily remove / put a flashlight, optics, a thermal imager, a nightlight and everything else. Tea, 21st century - composite ships of Elon Mask plow the expanses of the universe.
  15. Lamata
    Lamata April 7 2020 11: 44 New
    -1
    Yes, give them at once the Kernel loaf. That would have sensed themselves as boys.
  16. Azazelo
    Azazelo April 7 2020 11: 49 New
    0
    Wow ... there special ammunition is secretly passed, anyway anyone does not get it.
    1. hhurik
      hhurik April 7 2020 12: 44 New
      +1
      I don’t know about the state secrets, and what could be secret there - but linking to the world's only manufacturer of unique ammunition is not good. I remember that at one time I used it as a regular PSM on a regular basis, so in the mid-90s, TPZ stupidly ceased to produce ammunition, even there was nothing to do training firing. They handed over in chorus to the warehouses, armed with PM - well, it’s strange, everything was heaped up to him. PSM was a frankly worthless bullet, neither a candle nor a damn poker.
      1. Lamata
        Lamata April 7 2020 12: 51 New
        -1
        Well worthless, weapons of last chance.
      2. faterdom
        faterdom April 7 2020 13: 26 New
        +4
        Well why, PSM to wear could be hidden, even for an experienced eye. Because unexpectedly flat gun. And yes, I don’t even know whether he’s good or bad, they’ve never been given a shot at firing ammunition, and nobody will voluntarily shoot bk - it’s fraught with sideways ...
        1. Lamata
          Lamata April 7 2020 13: 35 New
          -1
          So what . could not get a couple of rounds? To smell how the trunk behaves.
      3. hohkn
        hohkn April 7 2020 14: 36 New
        +2
        Quote: hhurik
        PSM was a frankly worthless bullet, neither a candle nor a damn poker.

        They took the client for a series of robberies. He from the second floor through the window ciganul. From lunch, the head of the criminal walked past, carrying the PSM with him. He shot down a fly from one shot. As a result, the entrance in the ass turned the intestines and went under the skin of the thigh. The wounded man managed to escape, found after about 10-15 minutes. They didn’t get to the hospital ...
        Quote: faterdom
        I don’t even know if he is good or bad

        Let's just say inconvenient. And when you put it on the fuse, you often bite your skin with a trigger.
  17. slasha
    slasha April 7 2020 12: 17 New
    -1
    I wonder who the police and gendarmes will use this automatic weapon against? Really so many terrorists divorced? Then the FSB does not work.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 7 2020 12: 36 New
      +2
      Quote: slasha
      I wonder who the police and gendarmes will use this automatic weapon against? Really so many terrorists divorced? Then the FSB does not work.

      Against dissenters ...
      Some have such a strong bone that they simply can’t get to the brain without automatic weapons and an armor-piercing cartridge.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 7 2020 20: 34 New
        -1
        You are a good man, Lopatov.
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor April 8 2020 02: 23 New
          +2
          There was a good yanyk, the result is very sad.
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal April 8 2020 07: 41 New
        0
        "We strangled these dissidents, strangled ..."
    2. Lamata
      Lamata April 7 2020 13: 08 New
      -1
      They themselves come to their senses, for themselves.
  18. riwas
    riwas April 7 2020 13: 20 New
    +2
    In the basic kit, the submachine gun is equipped with a sight with two marks: when firing at 150 meters and at 200 meters.
    1. riwas
      riwas April 8 2020 08: 03 New
      +1
      Another picture.
  19. faterdom
    faterdom April 7 2020 13: 31 New
    +5
    Quote: riwas
    In the basic set, the submachine gun is equipped with a sight with two marks: when firing at 150 meters and at 200 meters.

    In fact, God forbid to shoot using a device with a person who has AKM or worse. There is no chance, unless that subscriber knows where to click ...
    Why did I ask about the Picatinny rail - the real effective combat distance of this weapon is 30 meters, well 40 meters. And why burden it with a thermal imager, or whatever. Well, a flashlight in the dark basements alright ...
    1. riwas
      riwas April 7 2020 13: 47 New
      +1
      Well yes. The PPSh also had a cross over sight at 100 and 200 meters (and in the early and even more - 500 meters), and they shot mainly at short distances.
    2. hhurik
      hhurik April 8 2020 00: 12 New
      +1
      Now a weaver or picatinny drive even on pistols. The Narodnik went blind, computers and gadgets spoil his eyesight by the least indulge. Anyway, the optics on the rifled - hurt by default, now there is something for every taste - with the brand’s illumination with a fiber light detector and a tritium phosphorus lamp. With reliability no less than the life of the bullet itself and weighing a couple of hundred grams.
  20. Lamata
    Lamata April 7 2020 14: 17 New
    0
    A couple of days ago, an old friend, the police underground (Kazakhstan) said, people, slowly, are starting to not be afraid of cops, they lifted up.
  21. Tank hard
    Tank hard April 7 2020 16: 55 New
    +3
    Good machine for their own purposes.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral April 7 2020 20: 33 New
      -4
      Yes, it’s suitable to shoot at people.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 April 8 2020 10: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: NordUral
        Yes, it’s suitable to shoot at people.

        Dude .. with your avatar .. you have to keep silent on this subject ..
        Novocherkassk shooting ..
        According to official figures, during the suppression of the uprising 26 people were killed, another 87 were injured. How many victims and victims were actually, it is not known exactly. They did not give out corpses to their families. The executed were buried in different cemeteries under cover of night.
  22. slavinsk
    slavinsk April 7 2020 19: 22 New
    -1
    With such a short barrel, only shoot into the crowd, why are the internal troops such weapons? What answer, who admires this?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 7 2020 19: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: slavinsk
      With such a short barrel, only shoot into the crowd, why are the internal troops such weapons? What answer, who admires this?

      Why for shooting in the crowd high penetration cartridges - 9x21 - and a store for 20-30 rounds?
      This is a software for working in cramped conditions - in the same apartments and houses - against targets in bulletproof vests and other protection. In short, against the poor bearded children.
      Yes, by the way, these also armed just to shoot the crowd? wink
    2. NordUral
      NordUral April 7 2020 20: 28 New
      -4
      For this, they are also arming to shoot us, slavinsk.
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard April 7 2020 21: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: NordUral
        For this, they are arming to shoot at us

        Well, if you're from a bearded child, then anything is possible. request
        1. NordUral
          NordUral April 7 2020 23: 33 New
          -1
          I did not expect such nonsense from you.
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard April 7 2020 23: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: NordUral
            I did not expect such nonsense from you.

            What is hello, so is the answer... request
  23. NordUral
    NordUral April 7 2020 20: 26 New
    -2
    The Russian Guard is adopting the SR-2MP Veresk submachine gun
    Today, 10: 11

    Эх, висел бы на стенке "калаш", а под кроватью - ящик с патронами и ящик зарядов к подствольнику.
    Надо же, "гвардию" серьезно вооружают против народа.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 7 2020 21: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: NordUral
      Эх, висел бы на стенке "калаш", а под кроватью - ящик с патронами и ящик зарядов к подствольнику

      Why is a law-abiding citizen such an arsenal ?! And for hunting and civilian weapons, training and a certificate from a psychiatrist are needed. Who can’t (about help), I’m not to blame. repeat
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 7 2020 23: 21 New
        -1
        Why is a law-abiding citizen such an arsenal ?!

        А зачем этим "гвардейцам" такой арсенал?
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 7 2020 23: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: NordUral
          А зачем этим "гвардейцам" такой арсенал?

          To solve a variety of tasks. I thought you know ... repeat
          1. NordUral
            NordUral April 7 2020 23: 32 New
            +1
            Duck and I have dreams for solving the task of protecting my family at my home. These certainly won't protect me.
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard April 7 2020 23: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: NordUral
              Duck and I have dreams for solving the task of protecting my family at my home.

              As if a button accordion had already been torn up on the topic of protecting the house, even in VO, and you have all the tasks. Help from doctors, training in a special institution, everything is in your hands. request
              Quote: NordUral
              These certainly won't protect me.

              I am sure that you are mistaken, but personally, I would not defend many. repeat
              1. NordUral
                NordUral April 7 2020 23: 37 New
                -1
                And I do not hope for protection.
      2. NordUral
        NordUral April 8 2020 22: 58 New
        -1
        And if I had, I wouldn’t ask. I just don’t have it, I’m really a law-abiding citizen. But I didn’t think about weapons before. There were no animals to kill the draft, so I didn’t buy anything from hunting and some saigas. And now, in my eighth dozen, no one will sell me. It's a pity.
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 9 2020 08: 36 New
          +1
          Quote: NordUral
          And if I had, I wouldn’t ask. I just don’t have it, I’m really a law-abiding citizen. But I didn’t think about weapons before. There were no animals to kill the draft, so I didn’t buy anything from hunting and some saigas. And now, in my eighth dozen, no one will sell me. It's a pity.

          By and large, in case of serious emergencies, I think the police will seize weapons from respectable citizens. So staff ... request
          1. NordUral
            NordUral April 9 2020 12: 12 New
            0
            Over in the States they tried to do this, and the people were outraged armed. True, we do not have the States, few have curtained walls with weapons, and even then, only those who themselves need to be put against the wall.
            Yes, hunters yet.
    2. your1970
      your1970 April 7 2020 22: 36 New
      +2
      Quote: NordUral
      Надо же, "гвардию" серьезно вооружают против народа.

      Dzerzhinsky’s division received new AK-74 simultaneously with the USSR CA ....
      Seriously preparing a purely Moscow division to fight against the people of the USSR in the late 70's ????
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 7 2020 23: 25 New
        0
        Those who prepared the collapse of the USSR did not realize that the people of the USSR turned out to be weak on the head, and even cowardly. I'm not an exception. That's why they were preparing.
  24. forester1971
    forester1971 April 7 2020 21: 03 New
    +3
    Очень интересно читать комментарии к статьям, где есть что-нибудь про Росгвардию, при чем неважно - про оружие, средства связи или даже про полевые кухни например. Все равно набегут разные "добрые люди" и начнут кричать про "борьбу с народом", "сторожевых псов кровавого режима", "опричников" и тому подобное. При этом даже не интересуясь о чём вообще была статья. Прямо индикатор какой-то для определенной категории граждан (правда непонятно какой страны).
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 7 2020 21: 26 New
      +6
      Quote: Forester1971
      Очень интересно читать комментарии к статьям, где есть что-нибудь про Росгвардию, при чем неважно - про оружие, средства связи или даже про полевые кухни например. Все равно набегут разные "добрые люди" и начнут кричать про "борьбу с народом", "сторожевых псов кровавого режима", "опричников" и тому подобное. При этом даже не интересуясь о чём вообще была статья. Прямо индикатор какой-то для определенной категории граждан (правда непонятно какой страны)

      True, when they touch them personally, they shout help, where are you, we pay taxes. If they can scream, the end ... It’s just not touched yet, but what are their years? laughing
    2. NordUral
      NordUral April 7 2020 23: 29 New
      -1
      Скажите, лесник1971, а для чего этой "гвардии" вот это:
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA April 8 2020 11: 33 New
        +3
        Quote: NordUral
        Скажите, лесник1971, а для чего этой "гвардии" вот это:

        In order not to suppress riots with the help of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, like the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR.

        Oh, and by the way, why were there tanks, artillery and aircraft in the Soviet explosives? And 31 division?
        1. NordUral
          NordUral April 8 2020 12: 07 New
          -1
          I did not serve in the internal troops and I do not know why the VV tanks, etc.
          А вот то, что сейчас "гвардию" вооружают против народа - это понимаю.
          Thieves are preparing for the rebellion of the people.
          1. Nameless
            Nameless April 10 2020 01: 01 New
            +1
            You look like a good fellow, a fighter ... laughing
            1. NordUral
              NordUral April 10 2020 10: 30 New
              -1
              The rats are all upstairs, Nameless.
              1. Nameless
                Nameless April 10 2020 22: 14 New
                +1
                And you began to be an honest, conscientious and disinterested fighter for the happiness of the working people - a kind of Danko, yes laughing ?
                1. NordUral
                  NordUral April 11 2020 11: 25 New
                  -1
                  No, just a man in his place, with his head and hands. And I think about what country will remain for our children and grandchildren with these rats upstairs, if at all.
                  1. Nameless
                    Nameless April 11 2020 22: 12 New
                    +1
                    Ой, ну полно вам про себя рассказывать какой вы хороший\белый\пушистый и какой обеспокоенный будущим "своей" lol страны. Знаю и про лицемерие, и про социальную инженерию, и про инсинуацию, и про много чего ещё - поэтому можете мне не рассказывать свои басни про то "как раньше было хорошо", "всё пропало" и "во всём виноват Путин".
                    Ещё прекрасно знаю, что некоторым странам очень сильно не нравиться то что мы несмотря на некоторые оставшиеся внутренние проблемы в целом поднялись с колен и уже активно вмешиваемся в чужие дела последние 7-8 лет, отстаивая свои интересы. Потому и пытаются устроить переворот - чтобы страна вновь погрязла во внутренних проблемах (а-ля новые 90-ые или 1917-ый и 1937 годами) и усобицах и нам было не до дел зарубежом. А вы, агитаторы-пятоколонцы под личиной коммунистов и либералов всячески пытаетесь этому способствовать, под видом "свободной, объективной и правдивой" информации инсинуируя президента, правительство и государство в глазах и умах граждан. Вам только одно невдомёк: это то что наша страна - не банановая республика, в который каждый год насильственно меняются президенты и правительство под предлогом того что нынешние - коррумпированные и продажные в интересах Запада. Уроки 1918-го и 90-ых годов нами вполне усвоены.
                    PS - children and grandchildren should work like the previous generation, and not rest on its laurels and labor results as majors. In this case, the state will not rot.
                    1. NordUral
                      NordUral April 12 2020 11: 48 New
                      -1
                      Ой, ну полно вам про себя рассказывать какой вы хороший\белый\пушистый и какой обеспокоенный будущим "своей" lol страны.

                      I am not white and far from fluffy, with people like you, even evil.
                      Знаю и про лицемерие, и про социальную инженерию, и про инсинуацию, и про много чего ещё - поэтому можете мне не рассказывать свои басни про то "как раньше было хорошо", "всё пропало" и "во всём виноват Путин".

                      I never wrote that everything was fine before, do not distort.
                      А вы, агитаторы-пятоколонцы под личиной коммунистов и либералов всячески пытаетесь этому способствовать, под видом "свободной, объективной и правдивой" информации инсинуируя президента, правительство и государство в глазах и умах граждан.

                      The fifth column is the power of Russia today.

                      Only one thing is not familiar to you: it is that our country is not a banana republic, in which presidents and the government change violently every year under the pretext that the current ones are corrupt and corrupt in the interests of the West. The lessons of the 1918s and 90s have been completely learned by us.

                      Yes, Somalia has not yet been reached.

                      PS - children and grandchildren should work like the previous generation, and not rest on its laurels and labor results as majors. In this case, the state will not rot.

                      Speak well. The majors, having read, will immediately begin to work. And for the rest, decent jobs will appear.
                      1. Nameless
                        Nameless April 12 2020 15: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: NordUral
                        I never wrote that everything was fine before, do not distort.

                        This is a derivative generalization from all lamentations on a similar theme to all agitators like you.

                        Quote: NordUral
                        The fifth column is the power of Russia today.

                        Do not be impudent. It can be seen that you are guided either by the audience of puberty - who will take what you say in a word, or by those who have not seen white light all their lives sitting indoors. With me, such tricks will not work.

                        Quote: NordUral
                        Yes, Somalia has not yet been reached.

                        А чего сразу не постядерные пустоши а-ля "Безумный Макс 3"? laughing

                        Quote: NordUral
                        Speak well. The majors, having read, will immediately begin to work. And for the rest, decent jobs will appear.

                        This is a question parenting, the impact of culture and education, not the current social system. Если на то дело пошло то т.н. мажоры ("Молодой Аморальный Жлоб Обеспеченный Родителями") были и в СССР - дети дипломатов чего стоят!
                        You also have a good time with eloquence: there is artistry, pathos, and a claim for literature in the air -
                        Quote: NordUral
                        I think about what country will remain for our children and grandchildren with these rats upstairs
                        laughing
                      2. NordUral
                        NordUral April 12 2020 17: 52 New
                        -1
                        Do not be impudent. It can be seen that you are guided either by the audience of puberty - who will take what you say in a word, or by those who have not seen white light all their lives sitting indoors. With me, such tricks will not work.

                        You better turn your head on, and then advise.
                      3. Nameless
                        Nameless April 13 2020 16: 04 New
                        +1
                        Ладно, продолжайте дальше отыгрывать свою роль "борца за всё хорошее и против всего плохого" - можно подумать что от того что я вам пишу комментарии вы бы согласились с тем что я пишу в вашем отношении.
                      4. NordUral
                        NordUral April 13 2020 16: 07 New
                        -1
                        Let's settle for a draw, but butt is no good. And time will put everything in its place and appreciate
                      5. Nameless
                        Nameless April 13 2020 16: 14 New
                        +1
                        I agree that spring will show who crap where laughing
                        Draw? Nah! Almost all of the popular resources in Runet, even those that have no (even distant) relation to politics, have already been spoiled by people like you with their wrestling comments. Thanks to people like you, after hard working days, people now have no peace and no opportunity to rest morally while reading articles on their favorite resource. So now you will not know my peace.
                      6. NordUral
                        NordUral April 13 2020 17: 29 New
                        -1
                        Frightened the hedgehog with a bare fifth point.
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk April 7 2020 21: 54 New
    -1
    And with whom is the Rosguard going to fight?
    1. your1970
      your1970 April 7 2020 22: 39 New
      +4
      Quote: 16112014nk
      And with whom is the Rosguard going to fight?
      and with whom did BB fight in the USSR?
      The tasks are the same word for word .....
  • Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya April 8 2020 10: 01 New
    0
    Something a lot of them divorced pp, but what about pp-hero, pp2000?
    1. Nameless
      Nameless April 10 2020 09: 11 New
      +1
      PP2000 is quite used by the FSVNG staff - in particular, private security.
  • vnord
    vnord April 8 2020 10: 28 New
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Not better to produce under license CZ or Glock?

    Glock do but there is a price tag ....
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar April 8 2020 13: 58 New
    0
    "В настоящее время данный пистолет-пулемет стоит на вооружении подразделений ФСБ и ФСО, а также некоторых спецподразделений МВД". But why is the Russian Guard? It is "государственная военная организация в Российской Федерации, предназначенная для обеспечения государственной и общественной безопасности, защиты прав и свобод человека и гражданина; преобразованы из внутренних войск МВД России." Which of the protesters walks in class 2 bulletproof vests?
    1. Nameless
      Nameless April 10 2020 09: 02 New
      +1
      Do not pretend to be stupid. In your opinion, the protection of public order is the only task performed by the FSWNG? But what about:
      1). protection of important state facilities, special cargoes, facilities on communications in accordance with the lists approved by the Government of the Russian Federation;
      2). participation in the fight against terrorism and extremism;
      3). participation in ensuring regimes of emergency, martial law, the legal regime of counter-terrorism operations;
      4). participation in the territorial defense of the Russian Federation;
      5). assisting the border agencies of the federal security service in protecting the state border of the Russian Federation;
      6). federal state control (supervision) over compliance with the legislation of the Russian Federation in the field of arms trafficking and in the field of private security and private detective activities, as well as for ensuring the security of the fuel and energy complex, the activities of legal entities with special statutory tasks and departmental security units ;
      7). the protection of particularly important and sensitive facilities, facilities subject to mandatory protection by the troops of the national guard, in accordance with the list approved by the Government of the Russian Federation, the protection of property of individuals and legal entities under contracts;
      8). ensuring, by a decision of the President of the Russian Federation, the security of senior officials of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation (heads of the highest executive bodies of state power of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation) and other persons.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 8 2020 14: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: 3danimal
    You are wrong: in the newspaper Pravda then wrote that Amin was executed by the angry Afghan people. smile

    Существует рассказы бывших"альфовцев"как штурмовали Дворец Амина. И там, что-то НИКТО не видел"разгневанного афганского народа".В сказках и не такое было.
  • Nameless
    Nameless April 10 2020 08: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: CommanderDIVA
    For special services, police structures, I agree, for example, in the police of different states in the USA, but it is economically and strategically more profitable for us to have a single pistol for all security forces (for example Nagan, TT and PM for many years), and for the development of super-healthy competition among Russian manufacturers of pistols to enter the foreign market, I haven’t heard anything about the supply of our pistols to other countries

    They may have different requirements for a pistol: for army soldiers, a pistol is a weapon of self-defense for officers and some other categories of military personnel — they don’t go on the attack with him, so a simple and reliable weapon that doesn’t fail is ready for battle immediately after being removed from Holsters and will certainly hit the enemy. For law enforcement officials, a pistol is already a type of service weapon, there may already be other requirements: a high stopping power of a cartridge, a large magazine, the use of polymers in a structure to lighten weight, the absence of the possibility of an accidental shot, etc. - i.e. all that would be unnecessary to the army team in the gun. Give the special forces of all departments the opportunity to install a silencer, a firing center, tritium inserts, anatomical pads on the handle and other tactical bells and whistles that are unnecessary for ordinary warriors and police officers. Give bodyguards a hidden-carrying pistol - extremely short-barrel, narrow and low in height - which suggests that the sample will be with a small store, but which can be hidden under clothes. All these requirements, to one degree or another, determine the future performance characteristics and appearance of the weapon - and therefore each department orders a gun purely for its specificity and military service activities.