In the USA, 8 F-16V fighter jets will be produced for Bulgaria, in Poland doubted the expediency of the deal

It became known about the Lockheed Martin order of production of eight F-16 Block 70 Super Viper fighters, which in the modern American nomenclature are designated as F-16V. These aircraft are reported to be delivered for the needs of the Bulgarian Air Force.

According to the latest data, the Bulgarian Ministry of Defense ordered 6 single and 2 double fighters from an American manufacturer. The announced contract amount is $ 512 million. Based on this amount, we can conclude that the American company requested $ 16 million for the F-64V unit.

But these are just empty cars. In total, 1,26 billion dollars are allocated from the Bulgarian budget. These funds will be used to purchase weapons from the United States for the supplied fighters, to train the flight and technical personnel of the country's air force, and to modernize the basic infrastructure.

Deliveries of F-16V fighters to Bulgaria should be completed in 2027. It is precisely such time frames that are indicated in the Bulgarian-American agreement of a military-technical nature.

It is noted that this is the largest transaction in the military-technical sector of Bulgaria since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact Organization.

The Polish media are somewhat skeptical about such a purchase of equipment by NATO partners. In particular, in the publication Defense24, the author calls the contract "more symbolic, since it does not allow even a full squadron to be created." A deal of this format is considered inappropriate, since at a substantial cost it will not cover the needs of the Bulgarian Air Force.

Comments

[Valery Valery]

Another reason to recall how Bulgaria betrayed Russia in different periods of history.

[stoqn477]

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

[Chervonny]

Bulgaria is part of NATO. NATO against Russia. Bulgaria is a potential enemy.

[iouris]

Quote: Red

Bulgaria is a potential enemy.

Learn to defeat the internal adversary. Learn in this way! Bulgaria has never won Russia.

[Shurik70]

And how could the Bulgarians go for this without consulting the opinion ... of the Poles

[pytar]

Bulgaria is part of NATO. NATO against Russia. Bulgaria is a potential enemy.

Potential, not real. Almost everyone in history has ever been potential enemies and friends. The Bulgarian in their majority and at present do not consider Russia an enemy. Polls are categorical.

And the acquisition of only 8 aircraft does not threaten Russia in any way, which was confirmed by the Russian ambassador Makarov in Sofia.

[Victorio]

Quote: pytar

And the acquisition of only 8 aircraft does not threaten Russia in any way

===
Surely this is true, but it does not change the fact that you are in a hostile Russian bloc, hence everything else. probably many Bulgarians were well / were grateful to Russia in the years of the First World War, and then the second. but, at the same time, they were on the side of the enemy of Russia (

[pytar]

Surely this is true, but it does not change the fact that you are in a hostile Russian bloc, hence everything else.

We entered NATO in 2004, 14 years after the ATS broke up. Until 2014, Russia did not consider NATO a hostile bloc. Despite the onset of cold weather in relations, no one in Bulgaria believes that Russia is an enemy.

probably many Bulgarians were well / were grateful to Russia in the years of the First World War, and then the second. but, at the same time, they were on the side of the enemy of Russia (

Misunderstanding of the situation comes from the fact that you look at it on your side! It looks different from ours! Not Bulgaria, but Russia was on the side of our worst enemies! Moreover, the Russians often changed their friends and enemies ... What can you do, in fact there is no Russian-Bulgarian antagonism, but there is a contradiction in the national interests!

[Victorio]

Quote: pytar

- no one in Bulgaria does not regard Russia as an enemy.
-Not Bulgaria, but Russia acted on the side of our worst enemies!

====
- in fact, it does not change anything, no one has canceled the obligations under the block;
-? in the first in allies with Turkey, and the worst enemies, presumably, Russia, Serbia and Romania

[pytar]

in fact, this does not change anything, no one has canceled the obligations under the block;

The USSR canceled / betrayed / its allied duties to us, in the 90th. So, we have what we have.

in the first in allies with Turkey, and the worst enemies, presumably, Russia, Serbia and Romania

After the occupation of Macedonia, the Serbs and Greeks in 1913, there was such savagery over the Bulgarian population that even the Turks did not! You know, the Turks committed atrocities of the 5th century, but they never forbade beaten Bulgarians to have their churches and schools. The first thing the Serbs and Greeks is to start killing teachers, priests, closing our churches and schools! The Turks killed us but did not dispute our right to be Bulgarians! But the Serbs and Greeks did not recognize our right to exist as a people, on occupied lands!

and the worst enemies, presumably, Russia, Serbia and Romania

Serbia Greece, Romania, by the way, and Great Britain from France! I’ll call Russia / out of courtesy / mis-oriented in the situation .... We have set only one condition to join the Entente - Macedonia! My family is from Macedonia / Bitola /! At the same time, everyone believed that this was a fair condition, but they did not persuade Serbia! And it happened, what happened ... Russia lost the war, Bulgaria too ...

[Victorio]

Quote: pytar

The USSR canceled / betrayed / its allied duties to us, in the 90th. So, we have what we have.

===
what kind? stopped dating the Bulgarian economy or buying your products? So the market, the transition period, the mess, and both countries (yours and ours) parted with socialism voluntarily. Russia didn’t do anything bad to you anymore.

[pytar]

what kind? stopped dating the Bulgarian economy or buying your products?

The total change in economic realities is an objective fact. Got it or not, it's very debatable! During the so-called socialism, incidentally brought to us on the bayonets of the CA, Bulgaria went bankrupt 2 times! But I don’t mean it! ATS gave militarily security guarantees to the countries participating in it. After its collapse, the Russian ambassadors in Sofia directly told our leadership - We need to be friends from the West, we are no longer enemies! We will build a new Europe, from the English Channel to Kamchatka! We have no interests in the Balkans. All further is a consequence. So, we have what we have.

[Victorio]

Quote: pytar

During the so-called socialism, by the way brought to us on the bayonets of spacecraft, Bulgaria went bankrupt 2 times! But I don’t mean it! ATS gave militarily security guarantees to the countries participating in it.

===
no one threatened you even after the collapse of the police station. and about the bayonets ka - just outright disgust

[pytar]

no one threatened you even after the collapse of the police station.

We have a large Turkish ethnic minority and 80 million. Turkey is a neighbor. The first anti-government Maidan in Sofia in 89 they spent. It was a matter of time when the situation becomes more radical.

and about the bayonets ka - just outright disgust

Without entering the spacecraft into the BG, there is never any so-called socialism would not be with us. The truth is sometimes unpleasant for some.

[iouris]

Quote: pytar

there is essentially no Russian-Bulgarian antagonism, but there is a contradiction in the national interests!

There is no contradiction in national interests. There is tough external management. This circumstance is decisive, but few are ready to accept it.

[Incvizitor]

It’s like buying oil from Isis, primarily the support of the terrorist economy, which contributes to the continued existence of this global cancer tumor.

[Ros 56]

So we understand that the threat from you is like a goat’s milk. And your Minister of Defense is probably in the seventh heaven with pride in Bulgaria.

[Paul Siebert]

Quote: pytar

And the acquisition of only 8 aircraft does not threaten Russia in any way

I understand, Boyan, these Super Vipers are bought by Bulgaria to spray from the air the fertile fields of your Homeland, and its amazing vineyards.
When the Turks come to you again will you treat them to wine too?

[pytar]

The possibilities are not many. The confrontational model is not in our crawl. Do you offer us to purchase 150 Su-57 ?!

[abc_alex]

Su-57 is a heavy fighter-bomber. You don't need it from the word "absolutely". And they won't let you buy planes from Russia. Not even the Su-27, but the MiG-35, for example.

[pytar]

Su-57-27-3xxx are definitely not needed! Bulgaria needs an F-16 class fighter, so they bought it. It is a pity, the amount is insignificant, I hope we will buy more. Even if we leave politics on the side, the MiG-35 is not a variant. From the word "absolutely". Twin-engine, less resource, electronics, radars hardly reach the American ones. In short - neither cancer nor a thing. There is no ego even in the Russian Air Force.

[mitroha]

Strange, after the setup with the "southern" / Turkish stream, these planes should have been presented to them. But no. Very few girls of easy virtue pay extra to clients.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Mitroha

Very few girls of easy virtue pay extra to customers

And more than they earn. The entire military budget of Bulgaria does not reach 1 billion. And 8 aircraft are more expensive. Well, it would be fine there they swung at the F-35, for "prestige", and so on old, albeit new, but at exorbitant prices. Would buy used, cheap, for Bulgaria will come down.

[Lipchanin]

I generally can not understand why they need them?
Are they going to fight with someone, or who is attacking them?

[pytar]

The entire military budget of Bulgaria does not reach 1 billion. And 8 aircraft are more expensive.

The next 8 will be cheaper. The Bulgarian budget will cope with the load. Do not worry.

Well, it would be fine there they swung at the F-35, for "prestige" ...

Ponte, not ours ... But in the future, the acquisition of 1-2 ex. F-35 would be nice!

as well as old, albeit new, but at sky-high prices

It is not clear why you are worried about my money ?!

Would buy Used, on the cheap, for Bulgaria will do.

Forgot to consult with you!

[orionvitt]

Quote: pytar

Forgot to consult with you!

Yes buy, God be with you. Eight planes, the very thing that Bulgaria needs, all the neighbors are trembling with fear .. See the world war, do not ignite, militarists. Moreover, the question has been dragging on since August last year, why they remembered it now, is not clear. So the Poles have already abandoned the F-35, the money is dumb, and so you will give up your F-16s. It will be so.

Ponte, not ours ...

In my opinion, Ponte, this is your everything. Such is the destiny of all the former, socialist. Not to mention the former union republics, they are so generally on the show, ahead of the rest.

[pytar]

Yes buy, God be with you.

Yes, you were so movingly forbidden for my money that I wondered if I should offer you to take care of your own?
I'm sure you would have a completely different reaction if we bought 8 MiG-35s, right?

Eight planes, the very thing that Bulgaria needs, all the neighbors are trembling with fear .. See the world war, do not ignite, militarists.

You do not find a contradiction in your words? "8 planes" <-> "militarists"! A country with 1-2% of GDP in the army, the army of 30 thousand. and 8 aircraft, as it does not smell of militarism ...

So the Poles have already abandoned the F-35, the money is dumb, and so you will give up your F-16s.

1.We do not recommend the Poles. 2. The Poles do not advise us. 3. We do not recommend you either.
Question - why do you advise us, because we did not ask you?

In my opinion, Ponte, this is your everything. Such is the destiny of all the former, socialist. Not to mention the former union republics, they are so generally on the show, ahead of the rest.

I am glad for you that there is such a place on Earth where there is no show-off ...

[orionvitt]

Quote: pytar

Yes, you were so touching outstripped for my money

Eh, how hot you are. Everything about money. I repeat, do what you want, your right. We would be so, just neighing, looking at all these antics of the former. And about the "militarists", if it's not clear, it's irony. And why does the "garden of Europe" need non-combat under-aviation?

[pytar]

Uh, how hot you are.

Vitaly, actually smiling while reading your posts, with a cup of aromatic coffee in your hand! Do not be offended, I do not have the slightest desire to be affected by someone else!

And about the "militarists", if it's not clear, it's irony.

I was also ironic of your notes!

And why does the "garden of Europe" need non-combat under-aviation?

Are you greatly tormented by this under-question? The question is not right, how to give the right answer and stay within the rules of the site ...

[svp67]

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

We have? Full ... And you?
For example, this ...

And do not tell us why our Ilam Bulgaria then closed its space and the "throw to Pristina" was empty, and Serbia was torn apart and divided ILLEGALLY.
Sing us this song, and we will listen ... We had the same different relations with Serbia, but then we could really prevent at least its dismemberment

[pytar]

And do not tell us why our Ilam Bulgaria then closed its space and the "throw to Pristina" was empty, and Serbia was torn apart and divided

In our western suburbs, the occupied Bulgarian live a large Bulgarian national minority. During the Yugoslav wars, Bulgarian men were mobilized in the Serbian army, and at that time the Serbian police committed atrocities and mocked their relatives.

We had different relations with Serbia, but then we could really prevent at least its dismemberment

Listen to this: We have extremely difficult relations with Serbia for 13 centuries! Do not poke us your sympathy for the Serbs! For us, Serbs are original enemies!
On the other hand, you cannot constantly look into the past, your president gave us one good idea ... Probably we from the Serbs should sit on a chair, put down a brandy и will reset negatives from the past! There is a desire on both sides, now our relationship is the best in history! Fact!

[Valery Valery]

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

And this "song" must not be forgotten. And the "brothers" do not change the repertoire !!!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song.

Who are we"?

. Don't you have a new one?

And in the new it will be the same, Bulgaria has betrayed, is betraying and will be betraying.
You won’t erase words from a song

[pytar]

Another reason to recall how Bulgaria betrayed Russia in different periods of history.

Stoyan, everything is simple: "A lie repeated a thousand times becomes true!" (J. Goebbels)

[Nosgoth]

Keep repeating as bequeathed to you.

[Same lech]

Bulgaria betrayed Russia at different periods of history.

A slightly incorrect postulate.
Bulgaria did not give us any obligations in the choice of allies in the two world wars ... they simply made a mistake in their choice by putting on a losing option.
Now, Bulgaria is stepping on the same rake for the third time, betting on a stronger master in their understanding.
For a long time, I no longer perceive Bulgaria as a country friendly to us ... it fully complies with the instructions of the United States and Brussels ... and in the event of a new conflict with Russia, the territory of Bulgaria will again be used against us.

[Valery Valery]

The key word in your comment is "lord".

[askort154]

stokn477.... After 1989, all your "allies" and some of the USSR countries joined NATO. It's strange that we are all to blame.

Stoyan, everything is logical. The wind changed direction, the elite of these countries changed sails. It is not the peoples who betray, the ruling elites betray them.
The people of Montenegro have been rallying for several months against joining NATO. No one heard him, not in the country, not in the EU. As a result: Montenegro became this member.

[pytar]

Stoyan, everything is logical. The wind changed direction, the elite of these countries changed sails. It is not the peoples who betray, the ruling elites betray them.

Your note was to Stoyan, I apologize for the interference of your dialogue! I hope you also consider traitors Gorbachev and Yeltsin? because it all started with them! Yes, it is until 2008 and even after that, GDP was also friends with NATO!

The people of Montenegro have been rallying for several months against joining NATO. No one heard him, not in the country, not in the EU. As a result: Montenegro became this member.

Once upon a time, I went to rallies against NATO! 82% of the Bulgarian population was against it! Now, from the standpoint of time, I think I was wrong! After the USSR / RF abandoned us, we found ourselves in an extremely difficult internal and external political situation! You have betrayed all your allies! Bolg. the economy collapsed, there was a real threat of the "Kosovo scenario" on the Bulgarian soil! Joining NATO gave stability, and joining the EU helped the Bulgarian economy get back on its feet! They were uncontested, and even now they are! Integration processes in the post-Soviet space are stalled. Russia does not have its own competitive project!

[orionvitt]

Quote: stoqn477

It’s strange that we are all to blame

No, it's not your fault, it's just your choice. And you made it. And the choice is not on the side of Russia, so do not be surprised and then do not whine.

You did not give examples of any good prospects for the future.

You might think you have them, or your new "allies" in NATO. And Russia, for the most part, is quite a self-sufficient country. In terms of resources, this is for sure, but in terms of industry, so strain and everything will be. Our ancestors have done this more than once ..

After 1989, all your "allies" and some of the USSR countries joined NATO

Let's say after 1991, but that's right. So they turned out to be "brothers" and "allies". But the most interesting thing is that they have not yet drunk this cup in full. The real difficulties are ahead. It took only one small virus to surface all the insignificance of your new "alliances". So there is nothing to blame the USSR, the point is in you.

[Same lech]

World War II, who is your ally until June 22, 1941? Germany.

What kind of nonsense ... name at least some kind of allied agreement was concluded with Germany ...
the nonaggression pact is by no means an alliance treaty ... but just a nonaggression agreement to which Germany then wiped.

all your "allies" and some of the USSR countries have joined NATO. It's strange that we are all to blame.

It is strange that NATO has advanced east in defiance of this promise to Gorbachev ...
having deceived once this organization will deceive many more many times.

[Pavel57]

Gorbachev the traitor or fool?

[pytar]

What kind of nonsense ... name at least some kind of allied agreement was concluded with Germany ...
the nonaggression pact is by no means an alliance treaty ... but just a nonaggression agreement to which Germany then wiped.

They didn’t agree to the end ...
"From the recording of the conversation between V.M. Molotov and F. Schulenburg - November 25, 1940.
Comrade Molotov reports on the conditions on which the Soviet Union agrees to accept basically the draft pact of four powers (i.e., to create the Berlin-Rome-Moscow-Tokyo axis), and also talks about the conclusions that follow from this message .. . "
Here are some of the conditions:
1. If the German troops are now withdrawn from Finland, representing the sphere of influence of the USSR, according to the Soviet-German agreement of 1939, and the USSR is obligated to ensure peaceful relations with Finland, as well as the economic interests of Germany in Finland (export of timber, nickel);
2. If the security of the USSR in the Straits is ensured in the coming months by concluding a pact of mutual assistance between the USSR and Bulgaria, which is geographically located in the sphere of security of the Black Sea borders of the USSR, and organizing a military and naval base of the USSR in the Bosphorus and Dardanelles on a long-term basis rent;
3. If the area south of Batum and Baku in the general direction to the Persian Gulf will be recognized as the center of gravity of the aspiration of the USSR;
4. If Japan renounces its concession rights for coal and oil in Northern Sakhalin under conditions of fair compensation.
By the way, in the agreement on the entry of Bulgaria into the Axis, part 5 reads: "Each of the signatory countries of the pact can have relations with the USSR at their discretion!" The agreement did not oblige the members of the OSI to participate in the war against the USSR! And Bulgaria did not participate!

It is strange that NATO has advanced east in defiance of this promise to Gorbachev ...
having deceived once this organization will deceive many more many times.

Nonserious hardening, Alexey! Gorbachev, and everybody who is beautiful, knows that only an agreement has a binding value! The question here is why the contract was not concluded? Probably due to the fact that Gorbachev intended, in the future, to include in NATO, the Soviet Union itself. This is the most likely reason for such a drinking "miss"!

[Lipchanin]

You better tell me why you need these aircraft?
Are you going to fight with someone?
Or are enemies wandering around your borders?

[pytar]

and in the event of a new conflict with Russia, the territory of Bulgaria will again be used against us

There will be no new conflict. And if it does, you will end up in paradise ...

[Ros 56]

So in modern times it is impossible to compare the capabilities of weapons and the country used as a prezik will simply be plowed up and down.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Valery Valery

Another reason to recall how Bulgaria betrayed Russia in different periods of history.

It’s just that the United States breaks out their hands so that there is work for their defense industry, and Bulgaria is a small country and does not need problems, it’s necessary to adapt.
Do not judge strictly the Bulgarians, they cannot afford a truly independent policy.

It became known about the Lockheed Martin order of production of eight F-16 Block 70 Super Viper fighters, which in the modern American nomenclature are designated as F-16V.

Deliveries of F-16V fighters to Bulgaria should be completed in 2027.

8 F-16V for 8 years. By plane per year.

[AlexVas44]

Procrastination, sometimes so useful in calm times, can be fatal during test hours (A. Lamartin).

[Terenin]

Well, and who cares what

in Poland questioned the feasibility of the deal

when in fact

In the United States will produce 8 F-16V fighters for Bulgaria

a fortiori

1,26 billion dollars are allocated from the Bulgarian budget.

and who is this

author of Defense24

который

A deal of this format is considered inappropriate

[Lopatov]

Quote: Terenin

Well, and who cares

Hint. Like true allies. Poles with their F-16 had a bunch of problems

[Terenin]

Quote: Spade

Hint. Like true allies.

I didn’t know that they were friends

Quote: Spade

Poles with their F-16 had a bunch of problems

so, the older striped "brothers" to them, these problems, and will readily solve ... not for free of course

[Starover_Z]

The Polish media are somewhat skeptical about such a purchase of equipment by NATO partners. In particular, in the publication Defense24, the author calls the contract "more symbolic, since it does not allow even a full squadron to be created." A deal of this format is considered inappropriate, since at a substantial cost it will not cover the needs of the Bulgarian Air Force.

"Gentlemen" Bulgarians! You ̶n̶a̶s̶t̶u̶p̶i̶l̶i̶ joined NATO ?! Now obey your master! He knows what to sell you and how much! This is not CMEA and no one will pay for you!

[pytar]

"Gentlemen" Bulgarians! You ̶n̶a̶s̶t̶u̶p̶i̶l̶i̶ joined NATO ?! Now obey your master! He knows what to sell you and how much! This is not CMEA and no one will pay for you!

On recounting, the price set by the USSR in 1988 of the Bulgaria MiG-29 (they were also on the fly), almost equals the price of these new F-16Vs purchased by Bulgaria.
By the way, according to opinion polls, most of the Bulgarians believe that you can’t save on the army!

[TermNachTer]

In my opinion, Bulgaria has betrayed itself here. For 1,2 billion American money, get 8 4th-generation aircraft by 2027. They can hardly be called smart.

[nedgen]

Quote: TermNachTER

In my opinion, Bulgaria has betrayed itself here. For 1,2 billion American money, get 8 4th-generation aircraft by 2027. They can hardly be called smart.

Nikolay you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHTS. Get f-ok at a price of 65 million apiece, and the most interesting thing is that in fact, not even for 8 but for 6 cars, what kind of gouging should our shitty government be? Two sparks after the arrival of the fighting must return back !!! This means that the price per piece is in fact 85-plus million (and something else to fully train new pilots is unlikely to be possible) of green paper. For etu price could well buy a Su-57 and more money would be left for weapons. And besides, all the remaining 750 million that should be spent DO NOT include AMRAAM missiles, and there will be no guided bombs yet. And what the hell is such a trimmed plane for the price of a fifth-generation aircraft ??? And all because our so-called Elita is essentially a priestess who doesn’t even have to pay for love.

[TermNachTer]

I understand you well, because I live in Ukraine.

[pytar]

In my opinion, Bulgaria has betrayed itself here. For 1,2 billion American money, get 8 4th-generation aircraft by 2027. They can hardly be called smart.

In your ... Here it should be noted that yours is not ours. Our money, we will figure out what is better for us!

[voyaka uh]

F-16 is a universal aircraft. Fighter bomber.
Bulgaria buys an advanced version. Thanks to the new avionics this plane
can fight on equal terms with any 4th generation fighter.
The minimum amount for defense. But the budget will not ruin.

[TermNachTer]

Too shy to ask - six sides can cover what? Sofia with surroundings?

[TermNachTer]

I'm happy for you - go for it. Moreover, the money is not yours. Money is already bye bye

[pytar]

I'm glad you are happy for us. I am also happy for you! Money for quality goods. Better than investing in US debt bonds ...

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Perhaps, finally, our patient people will understand that there is no concept of "brotherly people" in politics and economics? There is only "toavr-money-commodity" and state interests. No matter how cynical it sounds, you need to look at things soberly.
P With Us the Mongols in the Second World War, they gave the last, they teared themselves away and gave them. And we don’t even remember about it. Everything on the Land Lisa is fixated. So in relation to this country we acted just like the Poles and Bulgarians, we acted in respect to us. We betrayed them!

[pytar]

Another reason to recall how Bulgaria betrayed Russia in different periods of history.

Tezza "adopted" first by the Sorosoids, and then by some propaganda circles in Russia. Someone really wants the Russians and Bulgarians to hate each other.

[Cut Samshitov]

Quote: Valery Valery

Another reason to recall how Bulgaria betrayed Russia in different periods of history.

On Messerschmitts, the "brothers" looked very good. All repeats.

[Pavel57]

Me-109 under the red stars also flew in 1940.

[Cut Samshitov]

Quote: Pavel57

Me-109 under the red stars also flew in 1940.

As an experimental car or trophy. You messers stood on the ARM. In the next I congratulate you lie, nebo.

[pytar]

As an experimental car or trophy. You messers stood on the ARM. In the next I congratulate you lie, nebo.

Yes, we are in service, most of all were Soviet aircraft! And now they stand! It’s bad that they are standing, not flying! The old ones have already worked out! Retirement time to send!

[Pavel57]

Trophies were later. And in 1940 received from Germany. So do not sculpt.

[Victorio]

Quote: Pavel57

Trophies were later. And in 1940 received from Germany. So do not sculpt.

===
who received and on what basis?

[Pavel57]

Vitorio, by tonality you are definitely a general, well, or foreman.

And on the topic, the Pact made it possible to get a lot of modern equipment and technologies from the Germans.

[Victorio]

Quote: Pavel57

Vitorio, by tonality you are definitely a general, well, or foreman.

And on the topic, the Pact made it possible to get a lot of modern equipment and technologies from the Germans.

===
yep, junior major general, source simply indicate where the new me-109s were transferred to the red army

[Pavel57]

I did not say a word about the Red Army, but only that under the red stars. This is not the same thing.

[Gennady Fomkin]

What for they surrendered?

[AlexVas44]

Are you talking about (about what), about Bulgarians or airplanes? Although all is true.

[Aliken]

And the Poles do not care, everywhere they always stick their long nose.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

They envy that someone has money ...
From the Balkan corridor.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Well, the whole world envies you Vi-wai that by then he will disappear. As it began, they will redeem us freshly with paper, which the Fed released to their corporations the other day, on Monday ... Well, we sheep, what they will do with Roma - well, I think they should prepare a virus for them and them !!!

[Aliken]

And the Bulgarians have a short memory, as well as a mind.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

According to modern historiography, all Christians are descended from the Bulgarians. It was the Bulgarians who sent the Magi on a world tour - from Babylon to Bethlehem - through the east.

[cost]

the Bulgarians sent the Magi on a world tour - from Babylon to Bethlehem - through the east.

Mother mom This is a revolution in theology, history, anthropology and geography.

[Cat]

According to modern historiography <...>. It was the Bulgarians who sent the Magi on a trip around the world

... For 40 years, led by Cyril and Methodius, they wandered between Babylon and Bethlehem, until they met the ancient ukrov, to whom they presented the alphabet. Cook was eaten along the way - I confirm as an eyewitness

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

Here. You with the right historical knowledge. And then-Ukrainians, Ukrainians !!!
Only between "modern" and "historiography" I missed the word "Bulgarian". I'm sorry ...

[Cat]

Here. You with the right historical knowledge

And then! At least someone should enlighten the darkness of ignorance and instill a taste for history in the concrete-headed masses. And instead of "Bulgarian" you can insert any other

[Aliken]

))) The Magi both came and went, only they were seen.

[Pavel57]

Memory is memory, and the Warsaw Pact did not have to be canceled.

[nedgen]

Quote: Aliken

And the Bulgarians have a short memory, as well as a mind.

Sorry Aliken, but do not confuse the Bulgarian and the Bulgarian so-called elita. These are two different things. Probably in your country, too, far from everyone identifies with elita or with her interests.

[Aliken]

I'm not from Russia. And if the people allow their elite of indecency to create against Russia, then they are their accomplices.

[knn54]

Divide 1.26 by 8 and get 157 million bucks.
Poland the value of the contract for 32 fighter F-35A. amounted to 4,6 billion dollars,
Ie "5" is almost 10 million cheaper !!!
The Indians, by the way, did not fall for the "renaming" (F-21) of the product by Yankes marketers.
There is nothing to add, except that "Lockheed continues to make profits.
PS The Bulgarians continue to rejoice that they did not steal the rake ...

[Svetlana]

Some of the authorities are interested in the doubts of some journalists. Nobody. Aircraft will be delivered to Poland and Bulgaria and to (later) Ukraine too

[stoqn477]

[quote] Deliveries of F-16V fighters to Bulgaria should be completed in 2027. [/ quote]
8 F-16V for 8 years. By plane per year. [/ Quote]
All aircraft must be received in 2024. They are expensive, but there is no cheaper alternative. Gripen lost for political reasons.

[nedgen]

Excuse me, Stoyane, but the government has not been JUST LIKED, but now I have agreed on TAKAVA the price for the potential BOKLUK. Shielding in the basin, picking up in Bulgaria at once, the battle was distant (distant), you can’t even try with the MiG-23 MLD, and even the MiG-23BN was shot back for attacks on the target’s ground !!!! And the F-16 won EXACTLY for political reasons. We just turned our hands. Buy F-16s that are in this configuration according to the criterion of the cost of effectiveness even inferior to the MiG-21 !!!

[stoqn477]

F-16V with AFAR radars, AMRAAM missiles can not be compared with the MiG-23MLD!? In which universe is this? The plane is not inferior in the struggle for ground targets. The plane is cut off by us from these opportunities. Not from the Americans. From U.S. For money. For nothing else. No one with a small aircraft concept was fascinated by the way we cut our planes. Whatever the political leadership says.
Even the MiG-21 yields to the persistence of efficiency !?
Have you read the stories of our MiG-21 pilots against the Americans in Bulgaria? The plane is fast and with its color hiding on the surrounding surface. BUT! Until the Americans turn on their radars. And the plane was discovered and "destroyed." The end of the film.

[stoqn477]

Deliveries of F-16V fighters to Bulgaria should be completed in 2027.
8 F-16V for 8 years. By plane per year.

All aircraft must be received in 2024. They are expensive, but there is no cheaper alternative. Gripen lost for political reasons.

[mitroha]

Quote: stoqn477

They are expensive, but there is no cheaper alternative.

Well, of course, if you choose weapons for your army on this principle

Quote: stoqn477

Gripen lost for political reasons

To deceive ourselves is a futile task. In this case, the choice was not made by Bulgaria

[pytar]

Well, of course, if you choose weapons for your army on this principle

F-16V is the best of all alternatives for integrated performance. Grippen has the best takeoff and landing characteristics and the cost of an hour of operation, but loses everything else. Moreover, Bulgaria has accumulated a significant positive trading asset with the United States in recent years, so the acquisition of the Falcons, in some mayor, compensates for it.

[nedgen]

Sorry Boyana but in the ETH configuration in which we buy the f-ok they are even inferior to the MiG-23 and Gripen even more so. And if in order to balance the balance it was necessary to buy military equipment, they could buy Apaches and not shit at F-22 prices. And they could also buy thermal imagers for the T-72, etc.

[pytar]

Nothing is true! Not a single line! Sorry

but in this configuration in which we buy the f-ok they are inferior even to the MiG-23 and Gripen even more so

The contract price includes technical support for 3 years ahead. By the way, the Bulgarian "Avionams" got licenses! So, some of the money will return to Bulgaria. + Supply of diagnostic stands and equipment. + 3D simulators / they cost millions /. + crew training in the USA. + ammunition / in the truth is not the volume that Radev wanted /.
The only real competitor was Grippen. He has an hour of flight cheaper than everyone. But with him there are other snags! For actions on ground targets, he is clearly weaker than Falcon! It excels in the water supply chambers, otherwise loses. Moreover, he was driven by an American license, most of the weapons are also American. Buy it directly, not like. In this case, the same system for the F-16 will be cheaper than for Gripen.
F-16 produced in thousands of ex., And Gripen exotic. Accordingly, it is better to buy a fighter who has proven his qualities than one that has not participated in any battle.

And if in order to balance the balance it was necessary to buy military equipment, they could buy Apaches

Yes, Apaches are also needed, but with the destroyers we are still tight. I believe we’ll buy turntables, but not like all at once!

And they could also buy thermal imagers for the T-72, etc.

You probably have not heard, a contract has already been signed for the modernization of the T-72! There was a staty here too in VO! It is planned to install an integrated high-tech Israeli LMS! There are thermal imagers there, and much more is the most modern! So far, if memory does not fail, how 90 tanks will be upgraded!

[AlexVas44]

Quote: stoqn477

All aircraft must be received in 2024. They are expensive, but there is no cheaper alternative.

By the time the 8th aircraft ordered arrives, the pair may be irretrievably lost, 3-4 will stand up in anticipation of spare parts - well, what the hell is the remaining aircraft power? If the Russian Federation is so afraid, then I don’t want to say, but I have to, no one will notice Bulgaria in modern conditions. It’s better to pay money for social programs, and not to look Uncle Sam in the mouth, especially since he is not at all a relative.

[stoqn477]

8 aircraft is nothing. With this number, apart from Air Policing, nothing more can be done. Pilots can train other capabilities of the aircraft, and all. We need to replace the old with something newer and more powerful. To last another 20-30 years.
These planes were bought so that we could have aviation and not close the Air Force after 100 years of history.

[Victorio]

Quote: stoqn477

8 aircraft is nothing. With this number, apart from Air Policing, nothing more can be done. Pilots can train other capabilities of the aircraft, and all. We need to replace the old with something newer and more powerful. To last another 20-30 years.
These planes were bought to we could have aviation and not close the air force after 100 years of history.

===
and typhoons, would / or there were rafals (EU after all) came out no cheaper than f-16? did you have a media discussion? but it is perceived as another deflection under the owner

[nedgen]

Quote: Victorio

and typhoons, would / or there were rafals (EU after all) came out no cheaper than f-16? did you have a media discussion? but it is perceived as another deflection under the owner

Where have you seen the discussion of contracts on TV? And why would the "priestesses of love" have glasnost in power?

[Victorio]

Quote: nedgen

Quote: Victorio

and typhoons, would / or there were rafals (EU after all) came out no cheaper than f-16? did you have a media discussion? but it is perceived as another deflection under the owner

Where have you seen the discussion of contracts on TV? And why would the "priestesses of love" have glasnost in power?

===
I didn’t see, for it’s not a Bulgarian. Yes, and I did not write about contracts anywhere, if you did not understand. but in the press, tv and internet, there should at least be something

[pytar]

Discussions did not stop for years! The media is still replete with them! The contract was pulled for a long time! Changed the conditions, processed the requirements and so on. This was one of the hot topics in the media, and there were all kinds of opinions! Both among society and among specialists! There were political conflicts, for example, President Radev with the Moscow Region and a prime minister. There is a lot of public information!
Rafali was not, they are expensive Pts expensive, twin-engine, even though the president / he is a military pilot, 1-class. former commander of the Air Force / familiar with them in France. Second-hand Italian typhoons, also expensive, and again motor-driven. The final reached SAAB and Lokhiyt Martin. SAAB made an offer to put 10 Gripenna at the price of 8 + offset, + inclusion in the unified support system of Gripenna operators. Lokkhiyt in response slightly reduced the price, moreover, the American government approved to help Bulgaria - $ 56 million without pay. The configuration of the F-16 bl 70 really excels in the Gripenna performance characteristics, and eventually Lockheed won the competition.
The next batch / + 8 / will really cost much less.

[Pete mitchell]

You all are angry, pounced on the tovarischa, he himself answered all the questions:

Quote: stoqn477

... lost for political reasons.

All the full house: do not care about the cost, do not care about the opportunities received, do not care about the benefits not received from the transaction with the Swedes - the 'rich' have their own quirks. Was ephemeral independence - Amen .. Let's wait when this Germans Vysehrad Circus bored.
And now it remains to applaud the amers - they will always find a way to increase political influence and convert it into money, and the opinion of the 'partners' has never really interested them.

[Amateur]

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

Administration IN! Block at last this Bulgarian provocateur. Why should we at the Russian VO endure his insults. Let it roll on some kind of echo or rain.

[stoqn477]

Quote: Amateur

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

Administration IN! Block at last this Bulgarian provocateur. Why should we at the Russian VO endure his insults. Let it roll on some kind of echo or rain.

Provocateur? Because I take a position different from yours? Or because I protect my country? You have your own truth, I have my own. We are no longer 1945-1989. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. And I did not start with insults.

[pytar]

Administration IN! Block at last this Bulgarian provocateur. Why should we at the Russian VO endure his insults. Let it roll on some kind of echo or rain.

Some want to hear no other opinion other than their own! Yes, close completely, who's stopping you? Scold the whole world and do not worry that someone will oppose you! Stoyan did not offend anyone, but at that time it’s possible to naughty the Bulgarians! Yes?

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: stoqn477

PSV, you were allies with our enemies just a year ago. It will be difficult to sing songs about brotherhood with Serbs and Romanians, as well as with the Greeks.
World War II, who is your ally until June 22, 1941? Germany. No one else. All the rest either overtook them or assimilated. You did not give examples of any good prospects for the future. The actions of our regime after 09.09.1941. following your instructions has confirmed this. For information, we have normal diplomatic relations by September 5, 1944. Strange if we are enemies, don't you think?
After 1989, all your "allies" and some of the USSR countries joined NATO. It's strange that we are all to blame.

Another "Bulgarian"

[nedgen]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Another "Bulgarian"

And is there anything bad about Genady in this? I am also Bulgarian and proud of it !!! And you should be glad that there are Bulgarians who are interested in what is happening in Russia and look at you as friends.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi

According to modern historiography, all Christians are descended from the Bulgarians. It was the Bulgarians who sent the Magi on a world tour - from Babylon to Bethlehem - through the east.

Well, yes, "Bulgarians" are older than the Sumerians? Did you understand what you said?

[nedgen]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Well, yes, "Bulgarians" are older than the Sumerians? Did you understand what you said?

Interestingly, did one of the Bulgarians say something like that at least once? Or do you confuse the ancient Ukrainians with the Bulgarians?

[Doccor18]

I remember, about 25 years ago, Bulgaria and Moldova did not know where to attach their MIG-29s, there was no money for maintenance. Really appeared now?

[pytar]

I remember, about 25 years ago, Bulgaria and Moldova did not know where to attach their MIG-29s, there was no money for maintenance. Really appeared now?

There is money, the economy has steadily grown 3,5-3,8% in the last 7-8 years. Searing because of the epidemic, difficulties arise, but I think we can handle this prediction too well!

[askort154]

askort154 .. In the USA, 8 F-16V fighter jets will be produced for Bulgaria, in Poland doubted the expediency of the deal

And where does Poland? Or is she already trying on a thong, her beloved wife of the United States in Europe ?!

[Cat]

thong beloved wife

Rather wide trousers ("from sea to sea") of the senior eunuch in the East European harem. However, the owner of the harem, due to his tolerance and eunuchs, does not disdain

[stoqn477]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi

According to modern historiography, all Christians are descended from the Bulgarians. It was the Bulgarians who sent the Magi on a world tour - from Babylon to Bethlehem - through the east.

Well, yes, "Bulgarians" are older than the Sumerians? Did you understand what you said?

No one in Bulgaria claims this.

[stoqn477]

Quote: Mitroha

To deceive ourselves is a futile task. In this case, the choice was not made by Bulgaria

Quote: TermNachTER

In my opinion, Bulgaria has betrayed itself here. For 1,2 billion American money, get 8 4th-generation aircraft by 2027. They can hardly be called smart.

Maybe you have a 5th generation airplane? Not yet at this stage. Su-57 is still in the testing phase. All aircraft acquired by the Air Force belong to the 4th generation. Maybe 4 + / 4 ++, but they are 4th. The F-16V is also not quite 4th, but somewhere in the middle between the 4th and 5th.

[nedgen]

Quote: stoqn477

Quote: Mitroha

To deceive ourselves is a futile task. In this case, the choice was not made by Bulgaria

Quote: TermNachTER

In my opinion, Bulgaria has betrayed itself here. For 1,2 billion American money, get 8 4th-generation aircraft by 2027. They can hardly be called smart.

Maybe you have a 5th generation airplane? Not yet at this stage. Su-57 is still in the testing phase. All aircraft acquired by the Air Force belong to the 4th generation. Maybe 4 + / 4 ++, but they are 4th. The F-16V is also not quite 4th, but somewhere in the middle between the 4th and 5th.

Sorry Stoyane but this F-16 in this configuration is rather a 3+ generation. Yes, electronics if they don’t put the old radars will be at the 4+ level, but the armament will be at the level of not even the third but the second generation. Missiles ONLY melee at one time stood in Bulgaria ONLY on the MiG-21, and only unguided weapons for use on ground targets ... sorry but this is not even the SECOND generation !!!

[stoqn477]

The sales contract indicates what was purchased. What does it mean to put an old station?
AMRAAM missiles are not archaic at all.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: stoqn477

Quote: Amateur

Quote: stoqn477

We heard this song. Don't you have a new one?

Administration IN! Block at last this Bulgarian provocateur. Why should we at the Russian VO endure his insults. Let it roll on some kind of echo or rain.

Provocateur? Because I take a position different from yours? Or because I protect my country? You have your own truth, I have my own. We are no longer 1945-1989. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. And I did not start with insults.

Defender I wish you more of them ....... and no enemies.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: stoqn477

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Oyo Sarkazmi

According to modern historiography, all Christians are descended from the Bulgarians. It was the Bulgarians who sent the Magi on a world tour - from Babylon to Bethlehem - through the east.

Well, yes, "Bulgarians" are older than the Sumerians? Did you understand what you said?

No one in Bulgaria claims this.

Are you healthy there?

[Kerensky]

And I believe that everything is correct - pilots should be prepared CONSTANTLY. Park wears out. What to do?

[stoqn477]

Quote: Kerensky

And I believe that everything is correct - pilots should be prepared CONSTANTLY. Park wears out. What to do?

This is the idea of ​​buying aircraft, otherwise the Air Force would have to close. For us, the Air Force is not just 2 helicopters or 3 transport aircraft. A military aircraft for the Bulgarians is a military aircraft. And ours are outdated.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: stoqn477

This is the idea of ​​buying aircraft, otherwise the Air Force would have to close. For us, the Air Force is not easy ....

I still wildly apologize: does it mean that keeping the stripes for the generals is more important than investing in your own economy, since you have them? And why do you need an air force at all? Not on the level of emotions of ordinary people, but in an adult way.
Looking at the Nato countries, which feel quite normal for themselves without any military aviation at all, the conclusion suggests itself - you have been bred

[nedgen]

Quote: stoqn477

Quote: Kerensky

And I believe that everything is correct - pilots should be prepared CONSTANTLY. Park wears out. What to do?

This is the idea of ​​buying aircraft, otherwise the Air Force would have to close. For us, the Air Force is not just 2 helicopters or 3 transport aircraft. A military aircraft for the Bulgarians is a military aircraft. And ours are outdated.

The fact that our planes are outdated and worn out is true. MiG-29 of the first series and only the Su-25 squadron is not enough. BUT what prevented us, instead of stupid and extremely expensive partial repairs, did not agree with Russia to modernize our MiG-29s and bring them to the level of the MiG-35OVT? With the new RVVAE rockets and, moreover, at the Georgi Benkovski Plant in Plovdiv? And then we would have modern machines of the 4 ++ generation, but it is not clear what the price of the new 12-15 SU-35s would be. And there would be more money left for the modernization of the Su-25 and T-72. But no - the little "rich" Bulgaria SHOULD pay the "poor" uncle Samu because he "protects" us from the "bad" Russians !!! And this is despite the fact that they use our bases "DO NOT PAY" a cent. and will not pay further for ever and ever !!!

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: nedgen

small "rich" Bulgaria SHOULD pay "poor" uncle Samu because he "protects" us from "bad" Russians

Well, you know, you are not the only ones who fell for this bait, uncle knows how to charm and take for Faberge.

Quote: nedgen

and will not continue to pay forever and ever !!!

I advise you to read the agreement on the stay of amers on your land: they are withdrawn from under your Ministry of Internal Affairs - no responsibility for crimes against the host country

[stoqn477]

And who has the MiG-35OVT?
Benkovsky factory. The same factory that destroys working aircraft, because they are crazy there? The same ones that can’t do anything without technicians at the air base. Are we talking about this plant? They can only work with helicopters.
Su-25 is also a plane for about 30+ years. The plane leaves with age and material fatigue. They don’t have a watch, but she left because of her age. Good car. Also useful for ground forces.
At the moment, Belarus is undergoing a small modernization for him, which will give him a little more life.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: nedgen

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Well, yes, "Bulgarians" are older than the Sumerians? Did you understand what you said?

Interestingly, did one of the Bulgarians say something like that at least once? Or do you confuse the ancient Ukrainians with the Bulgarians?

Well, you have learned men from the 20th century claim that you are Illyrians, Romanians claim that they are Romans. And only in their proclamations did the Bulgarians claim that Alexander Nikolayevich Romanov, the All-Russian Emperor was: MONGOL

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: nedgen

COMMENTS 

Quote: pytar

Surely this is true, but it does not change the fact that you are in a hostile Russian bloc, hence everything else.

We entered NATO in 2004, 14 years after the ATS broke up. Until 2014, Russia did not consider NATO a hostile bloc. Despite the onset of cold weather in relations, no one in Bulgaria believes that Russia is an enemy.

probably many Bulgarians were well / were grateful to Russia in the years of the First World War, and then the second. but, at the same time, they were on the side of the enemy of Russia (

Misunderstanding of the situation comes from the fact that you look at it on your side! It looks different from ours! Not Bulgaria, but Russia was on the side of our worst enemies! Moreover, the Russians often changed their friends and enemies ... What can you do, in fact there is no Russian-Bulgarian antagonism, but there is a contradiction in the national interests!

But what for from one block ran to another, losing slippers on the go? Can Switzerland become neutral? Where is your wisdom? I’m reading and watching Bulgarian TV. I don’t have a single Bulgarian politician who didn’t say anything bad about my country.

[stoqn477]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

And only in their proclamations the Bulgarians claimed that Alexander Nikolayevich Romanov the All-Russian Emperor was: MONGOL

We are on the Mongols, did not erect a monument in the center of our capital. My respect. There is a monument called "King of the Liberator." Not a Mongol Khan.

[stoqn477]

Quote: Victorio

and typhoons, would / or there were rafals (EU after all) came out no cheaper than f-16? did you have a media discussion? but it is perceived as another deflection under the owner

Typhoons offered us only the second hand. Even they did not fit into the budget of the transaction. This and the F-16 did not go in, but they changed it to go in. New Rafals are also expensive for India, what remains for us. In general, if I'm not mistaken, the idea was for a single-engine aircraft. All other participants were more about beauty. Not that there were many.

[Victorio]

Quote: stoqn477

Quote: Victorio

and typhoons, would / or there were rafals (EU after all) came out no cheaper than f-16? did you have a media discussion? but it is perceived as another deflection under the owner

Typhoons offered us only the second hand. Even they did not fit into the budget of the transaction. This and the F-16 did not go in, but they changed it to go in. New Rafals are also expensive for India, what remains for us. In general, if I'm not mistaken, the idea was for a single-engine aircraft. All other participants were more about beauty. Not that there were many.

===
understand, thanks for the info.

[Region-25.rus]

what? Now "the Bulgarian elephant is the best friend of the American elephant"? )))

[lvov_aleksey]

They sat on the needle, they should not care already ...

[lvov_aleksey]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: nedgen

COMMENTS 

Quote: pytar

Surely this is true, but it does not change the fact that you are in a hostile Russian bloc, hence everything else.

We entered NATO in 2004, 14 years after the ATS broke up. Until 2014, Russia did not consider NATO a hostile bloc. Despite the onset of cold weather in relations, no one in Bulgaria believes that Russia is an enemy.

probably many Bulgarians were well / were grateful to Russia in the years of the First World War, and then the second. but, at the same time, they were on the side of the enemy of Russia (

Misunderstanding of the situation comes from the fact that you look at it on your side! It looks different from ours! Not Bulgaria, but Russia was on the side of our worst enemies! Moreover, the Russians often changed their friends and enemies ... What can you do, in fact there is no Russian-Bulgarian antagonism, but there is a contradiction in the national interests!

But what for from one block ran to another, losing slippers on the go? Can Switzerland become neutral? Where is your wisdom? I’m reading and watching Bulgarian TV. I don’t have a single Bulgarian politician who didn’t say anything bad about my country.

they will still be with us nowhere to go anywhere until Ukraine is divided - we are bad!

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: nedgen

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Another "Bulgarian"

And is there anything bad about Genady in this? I am also Bulgarian and proud of it !!! And you should be glad that there are Bulgarians who are interested in what is happening in Russia and look at you as friends.

I’m also visiting the Bulgarians, I’ll sit in silence from the edge, look and go nuts.

[tarakanovaleksei]

Bulgarians ........? Yes, and to hell with them!