“Bombing the Stone Age” - 55th Anniversary of the American Operation Thunderclap

“Bombing the Stone Age” - 55th Anniversary of the American Operation Thunderclap

The operation “Thunder Clashes”, which began on March 2, 1965, is not only significant in that it has become the most widespread bombing carried out by them since the end of World War II. This series of airstrikes lasting more than three and a half years marked the fatal step of the United States in a Vietnamese adventure, which ultimately led the American armed forces and the state as a whole to an unprecedented stories military disgrace. And also - it became a model of Washington’s strategy in the destruction of the “wrong”, rebellious countries. The very strategy that continues to be applied to this day - with no less scope and cynicism.


For starters, a little background. The fact that the United States, seeing the complete futility of its own attempts to break North Vietnam, limiting itself only to the supply of weapons, the training of Viet Cong soldiers and officers and the small contingent of its own troops, will "get into" this conflict, which is called, by ears, it became clear already in 1964. The two incidents that followed one after the other in the Gulf of Tonkin, which were obvious provocations (the second of them, according to many historians, was at all pure staging), the desire of the “hawks” surrounding President Lyndon Johnson on all sides to arrange a “small victorious war” - Everything led to that.

The United States really wanted to get revenge for the extremely painful defeat a decade ago in Korea - naturally, not so much from local partisans as from the Soviet Union and communist China. Washington’s belligerent ambitions were also greatly fueled by the fact that since the death of Stalin, whose falcons in the Korean sky were scattering whole squadrons of American vultures, more than 10 years have passed. Analysts from the State Department and the Pentagon believed that Khrushchev, who replaced him, would not intervene in the new mess in Southeast Asia, and most likely would prefer to leave the small and brave Vietnam to his tragic fate.

The official reason for launching the first strikes in the framework of “Thunder Rumbles” was a series of successful operations by local partisans on US Army military facilities stationed in Vietnam — a helicopter base and a training school for sergeants in February 1965. Every time american aviation inflicted single strikes as “retaliation”, but in Washington they decided that all this was not enough and set to work on a true scale. The head of the White House, who signed the directive on the start of “Thunder Rumbles,” with utter cynicism, called it “a series of air raids on selective targets, extremely balanced and limited.”

You must admit that it is extremely difficult to apply this characteristic to a shower of bombs that fell on the heads of the Vietnamese for the course of three and a half years already! At the same time, there was no question of any “selectivity” in principle - the targets for striking attacks were, for the most part, objects, which had nothing to do with the military infrastructure of North Vietnam — residential quarters, hospitals, and dams. American bombers methodically wiped entire villages from the ground, literally burned out not only the jungle that hid the partisans, but also the rice fields, completely consciously trying to cause hunger in the country.

As a matter of fact, subsequently quite high-ranking officials from the political "establishment" of Washington directly acknowledged that the goals of the monstrous in its scope and cruelty bombing were not the achievement of a certain strategic military superiority, but the desire to break the will of the entire Vietnamese people to resist. Thus, the leaders of the tiny country who didn’t want to give up were planned to be “seated at the negotiating table” so that they signed a “peace” on American terms — that is, complete and unconditional surrender.

Widely known to everyone and quite often quoted today as a definition of one of Washington’s leading “foreign policy strategies”, the phrase “bomb the Stone Age” is not “an invention of Kremlin propagandists”, but the most authentic statement by one of the inspirers of the colossal barbarism I have described Twentieth century. These terrible words were spoken by none other than US Air Force General Curtis LeMay, being firmly convinced that the Vietnamese should “draw their horns” and surrender. Otherwise, as he was sure, "the best recipe for solving the problem would be to bomb them into the Stone Age." This is what has been done year after year.

It is clear that it was not without the vital interest of the highest ranks of the Pentagon and the tycoon of the US military-industrial complex. During the airstrikes, the U.S. Army experienced many (according to some, more than a thousand) new types of weapons and ammunition, from air bombs to military aircraft. It was in the process of “Thunder Rumbles” that the new US Air Force machines — the F-4 and F-111 — were first used. The first is a multi-purpose fighter-bomber, the second is a tactical long-range bomber. And how many millions have been earned by the United States military factories, which, as established, stamped the deadly cargo for these vultures, is hardly accountable at all.

The tragedy of Vietnam was, in fact, only a logical continuation and “creative development” of the savage, hateful and frankly mean tactics of a “contactless war” developed by the United States and its main ally, Great Britain back in World War II. What was the military-strategic significance of the destruction of Dresden and dozens of other German settlements, the size of which was smaller, committed by the Allied aviation on February 13-15, 1945? Why was it wiped off the face of the earth, burned without any atomic bombs in Tokyo, where during air raids on February 26 and March 10, 1945, American warriors killed more than 100 thousand people? These war crimes became the "trademark" of American warfare, the first links in a chain of monstrous massacres, which then stretched through the years to Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria ...

According to various estimates, during the “Thunderclap”, more than 50 thousand to 200 thousand civilians of Vietnam died. Could such an act have a limitation period? However, the easy walk for the American pilots also failed. The assumption that the Soviet Union would remain aloof was Washington's gross mistake. Khrushchev was removed from the post of General Secretary in 1964. An agreement on mutual assistance, including military assistance, was concluded between our country and Vietnam in 1965. And already on July 24 of that year, the first American air raider was shot down by the Soviet S-75 Desna air defense system. The fighters of our air defense became the terror of the US Air Force pilots - just like it was during the war in Korea, for which they so wanted to get even.

Until the end of the war, the USSR supplied Vietnam with about a hundred such systems, thousands of missiles for them. Vietnamese aviation was no longer counted in units, but, again, in hundreds of fighters, among which the number of frightening Americans was rapidly growing up to the MiG-21 hiccups. The “thunderclap” cost the United States military aviation more than a thousand killed, crippled, and captured pilots. Also in its course, more than 900 American combat aircraft were shot down. It was not possible to break the patriotism and courage of the Vietnamese people - the case ended in scandalous Senate hearings, which led to a resounding resignation of the then head of the Pentagon. He was accused of "wasting resources", and not of mass extermination of civilians, but the "Thunderclap" turned off.

The Americans, as everyone remembers, ultimately lost the war miserably. That's just a pity - this defeat did not discourage them from trying to drive whole countries and peoples into the Stone Age ...
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  1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 18: 21 New
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    What a shame in Vietnam? laughing The Americans did not lose a single important battle, they simply waged a war in half measures - they didn’t attack North Vietnam, because they were afraid of repeating the Korean scenario - China’s intervention - already nuclear, and the Korean Bloody Draw - keeping Korea South plus or minus on the same borders with which Kim Il Sen tried to conquer the entire peninsula. As a result, under pressure from public opinion, Ho Chi Minh was forced to leave South Vietnam in their own country, but there was no military defeat as such
    1. knn54 April 2 2020 19: 01 New
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      I remember the time when Mohamed Ali refused the call, People who torn the agenda, became heroes. Participants in the war were considered almost criminals. Is this not a shame for the country?
      South Vietnam collapsed. Vietnam remained socialist. Even youth still hate the United States. Isn't that a defeat?
      1. Free wind April 2 2020 19: 21 New
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        What youth whose, where? In Vietnam, a long time ago with the Americans, peace, friendship, chewing gum. In Korea, the war was under the auspices of the UN, the war began North Korea. Could, in principle, get a crowd of angry hungry Koreans, forever digging fish with us. North Vietnam was the first to start a war.
        1. knn54 April 2 2020 19: 28 New
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          Alexander, I’ve been talking with Vietnamese people of different generations for a long time. There are many of them in Kharkov.
          And the SRV leadership considers the USA ONLY as a counterweight to the PRC, no more.
          Yes, read ATTENTIVELY about the incident in the Gulf of Tonkin.
      2. Krasnodar April 2 2020 20: 31 New
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        Quote: knn54
        I remember the time when Mohamed Ali refused the call, People who torn the agenda, became heroes. Participants in the war were considered almost criminals. Is this not a shame for the country?
        South Vietnam collapsed. Vietnam remained socialist. Even youth still hate the United States. Isn't that a defeat?

        Political - of course. But there was no close military defeat there - the Americans beat both Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese with a balance of losses far from in favor of the local
        1. 16329 April 2 2020 21: 35 New
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          War is not a game and the ratio of losses is not the main issue
          Vietnam (DRV and Vietnam) considered it possible for itself to pay such a high price for its freedom and independence, and the United States could not find a way to counter this determination
          North Vietnam won a complete victory, achieved all its goals, and the United States was defeated and thrown out of Indochina.
          What is the point of considering the loss, the United States was defeated precisely from Vietnam (Vietnam and Vietnam) (assistance to Vietnam from the USSR and the PRC, this is an important factor, of course, but it was the Vietnamese who won)
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 24 New
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            He held, achieved, but did not defeat the Americans and did not throw them out of the country. hi Let's just say that, with their heroic resistance, the Vietnamese people inclined US public opinion in favor of withdrawing troops from the country.
            1. 16329 April 2 2020 22: 34 New
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              According to the Paris Agreement between the DRV, USA and SE, the main contingents of American troops were withdrawn in 1973, advisers remained in SE, then the ceasefire was interrupted, hostilities resumed and DRV troops captured Saigon, American advisers and diplomats, as well as Vietnamese refugees, were evacuated - the complete defeat and liquidation of the American presence in Indochina, the rest is just words
              1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 39 New
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                According to the Paris Agreement between the DRV, USA and SE, in 1973 the main contingents of American troops were withdrawn.

                That's it
                American advisers and diplomats, as well as Vietnamese refugees evacuated

                That's right - but in the presence of American contingents, no Saigon would have been captured - and you understand that perfectly
                the complete defeat and liquidation of the American presence in Indochina, the rest is just words

                Well, what a rout? laughing
            2. pmkemcity April 3 2020 05: 54 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              U.S. public opinion

              What are you talking about?
              1. Sergey Sfiedu 14 May 2020 19: 50 New
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                The victory of Vietnam is not only the heroism of the Vietnamese people. This is, firstly, the victory of the USSR and China, and, secondly, the victory of American liberal public opinion over officialdom. We must pay tribute to the Americans - now American public opinion, even the so-called liberal, it became almost 100% "patriotic".
        2. Marine engineer April 2 2020 22: 04 New
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          "But there was no close military defeat ..."

          In any war, the opposing parties set themselves the goal they want to achieve.
          If the goal is achieved, victory; if not, defeat.
          Vietnam achieved its goal, but the United States did not.
          Conclusion: Vietnam won, the United States was defeated.
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 25 New
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            I agree - but the Americans did not fail on the battlefield. hi
            1. 16329 April 2 2020 23: 26 New
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              The fights were different and there were many fights, military success is changeable and only the end result is important
              One of my senior colleagues (a German) who worked in a Saudi Arabia power plant with an American veteran of that war told me a bike about the “lonely Charlie” who climbed a tree almost every evening at a field airfield and shot at helicopters and AK planes that were landing , sometimes successfully, long enough and could not be caught
            2. WapentakeLokki April 3 2020 18: 13 New
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              .. I don’t remember the name .. seem Dien Bien Fu but the name of the film with Mel Gibson (..We were soldiers ..) I remembered immediately .. and how do you think it’s NOT A DECEASE ??? ... the Yankees with fanfare arrived, landed , and dristanuli back .. having lost the N-th number of G-Ai ... no, of course, you can, according to their usual custom, say the goal of the operation is achieved, the troops are withdrawn to the RPM .. but really merged ... and it's just offhand ..
              1. The comment was deleted.
        3. gsev April 2 2020 22: 20 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          But there was no military defeat there

          The United States and its satellites had more soldiers and equipment, but North Vietnam always had the initiative and imposed its will on the enemy. The US government did a great deal of stupidity in deciding to support the rotten regime of the south, American public opinion did a lot to correct the mistake of Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. In addition, the United States even then believed that it was necessary to restrain Vietnam, regardless of whether its communists or pragmatic nationalists would be at the head. Initially, the US goal was to weaken both the North and the South in a fratricidal war. We are witnessing negotiations between the DPRK and the USA. Now the United States puts forward such demands on North Koreans, as if the Koreans in their concentration camps were unarmed behind barbed wire.
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 43 New
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            Yes, I agree. Once again - the mistake of the Americans was to abandon the invasion of North Vietnam. The states became close to China in the late 60s, they could do it right after the quarrel between Mao and Khrushchev and launch an attack on Hanoi without fear of repeating the Korean version.
            1. gsev April 2 2020 22: 48 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              Once again - the mistake of the Americans was to abandon the invasion of North Vietnam.

              In this case, the Americans would have met with Chinese tankers in Vietnam, and not with infantrymen as in Korea. During the Vietnam War, China was more valuable to the USSR and Vietnam than the entire communist Central Europe.
              1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 50 New
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                Here, the Chinese tankers there would be butchered for one or two. )))
                In general, I wrote that friendship with China had to start not in the 69th, but earlier, then go to Hanoi hi
                1. gsev April 3 2020 00: 16 New
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                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Here, the Chinese tankers there would be butchered for one or two.

                  In Korea, 15 years earlier it didn’t work. Only in 1949 did the Chinese artillery gunners force the English ships to leave the Yanzi water area. Therefore, the Chinese did not want to see the European troops in Hanoi for any carriages.
            2. hohol95 April 3 2020 15: 35 New
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              Do you have a firm belief that Mao would go for a rapprochement of the United States at that moment?
    2. Moskovit April 2 2020 19: 16 New
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      Of course, this is a victory, running sparkling with heels from Vietnam.
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 20: 35 New
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        Quote: Moskovit
        Of course, this is a victory, running sparkling with heels from Vietnam.

        Which one to run? laughing They were brought out because of the huge mass demonstrations in Washington in front of the White House - from a military point of view, the Americans won the vast majority of battles due to the good coordination between infantry, artillery and attack aircraft:
        1. Moskovit April 2 2020 21: 53 New
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          Well, why were these demonstrations? Not because of the loss of the Americans? Not because of the barbaric methods of warfare, because the ordinary did not help?
          The bottom line is that a much less developed power in all respects forced the United States to leave and take its allies with it.
          By the way, after the war, about 20 thousand Vietnam war veterans committed suicide. Winners, what there.
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 35 New
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            1) There were losses there from the first days of the war
            2) The methods of warfare were the same as in WWII, except for nuclear weapons
            3) Made - because public opinion in the States themselves found this war unnecessary
            4) Well, here you can add that Vietnam in recent years has become the first in terms of the number of American investments in Southeast Asia in general ... so that the Vietnamese are handsome on all sides laughing
            1. Sugar Honeyovich April 3 2020 04: 53 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              public opinion in the States themselves found this war unnecessary

              Not just unnecessary - dirty, shameful.
          2. Nosgoth April 4 2020 12: 43 New
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            Why are you trying to explain something to the troll? In his comments, he clearly fenced off the United States and its sixes, even when the facts say otherwise. His principle of "not reflecting but spreading" is a typical pro-Western troll. Just don't talk to him. Its main purpose of being on the site is to shield pendosov and co, and denigrate everything Russian.

            ps My principle is simple: "I saw a message from Krasnodar - put a dislike to all his comments."
        2. gsev April 2 2020 22: 26 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          from a military point of view, the Americans won the vast majority of battles

          Grandfather from the Koptev market told how after a month of march through Laos he brought his tank PT to the US positions and fired one shot every day. The US costs in aviation hours and ammunition in an attempt to destroy this firing point for the day of fighting apparently covered the cost of equipment and training of a tank battalion. Can shots of this tank be considered Vietnam’s daily victory. I think it is possible.
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 46 New
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            Count the size of the economies of two countries - maybe a defeat laughing
            1. gsev April 3 2020 00: 33 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              Count the size of the economies of two countries - maybe a defeat

              Under the occupation of Japan in 1944, there was a famine in Vietnam, in which the death toll of the Vietnamese approximately corresponded to those killed in the war with the Americans. For Vietnam, the war was no heavier than the colonial yoke. In general, the colonial world collapsed when the Comintern began arming the Sik partisans. The fight against them made the British more liberal towards the INC, and then the fight against the INC made the exploitation of India unprofitable. The 10 year war in Indochina tied the resources of the United States and made it difficult for them to fight the pro-Chinese partisans in Malaya and the Philippines and the underground in Indonesia. China used the war in Vietnam for its influence in Southeast Asia. China’s friendship with the United States became possible only after the United States left Vietnam.
    3. Sergey Averchenkov April 2 2020 19: 26 New
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      I wanted to shit on your reasoning about victory. Search for "napalm girl".
    4. svp67 April 2 2020 19: 32 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      The Americans did not lose a single important battle, they simply waged a war in half measures

      But isn’t you going to lose?
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 20: 37 New
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        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Krasnodar
        The Americans did not lose a single important battle, they simply waged a war in half measures

        But isn’t you going to lose?

        Once again - in political terms, they certainly lost. In the military - no))
        1. svp67 April 2 2020 20: 48 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          Once again - in political terms, they certainly lost. In the military - no))

          War is politics, by other means ...
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 21: 19 New
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            We are talking about net fighting.
        2. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 21: 26 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The Americans did not lose a single important battle, they simply waged a war in half measures

          But isn’t you going to lose?

          Once again - in political terms, they certainly lost. In the military - no))

          What is the point of tactical and even operational success if the strategy is a complete failure? For what sacrifice? For the development of the military-industrial complex? So yes, success on the face, as it were. But the Americans had to reform the principles of recruiting the armed forces from ji ai to contract professionals. No one wanted to die for democracy for free.
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 53 New
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            I agree. The result was the creation of a contract army, as nobody wanted to participate in colonial wars as conscripts for free
        3. 16329 April 2 2020 21: 37 New
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          Look at the footage of the evacuation of the US embassy from Saigon.
          And draw conclusions about who won the war
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 54 New
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            Counselors and diplomats were evacuated - if there were American military contingents - nothing would happen laughing You yourself understand everything ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. Andrey VOV April 2 2020 21: 05 New
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      Just why do you and people like you scream at the mouth that the USSR lost the war in Afghanistan?
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 21: 20 New
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        I? laughing You find at least one of my arguments about the outcome of the war in Afghanistan on the website, then talk about "me and my kind."
    6. fk7777777 April 2 2020 22: 21 New
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      M, yes ?, 60 thousand corpses, it’s absolutely nothing, huh ?, you got 200 thousand from the trampoline, garbage, maybe more ...
      They lost and begged the USSR to let go out to save face, or having lost 31 strategists in a short space, is this your nonsense too? ...
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 56 New
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        60 thousand corpses is a lot - yes. They implored the USSR about it - they never met anywhere, so that the Americans would even ask the Union for Vietnam. For amerskoy economy 41 strategist - acceptable losses
        1. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 23: 50 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          60 thousand corpses is a lot - yes. They implored the USSR about it - they never met anywhere, so that the Americans would even ask the Union for Vietnam. For amerskoy economy 41 strategist - acceptable losses

          On an operational scale ... Yes bullshit))))
          So not Asilili, pachemushto
    7. Red Alert April 2 2020 22: 55 New
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      With their capabilities, they should have simply crushed Vietnam in a couple of years. Young people began to mow down from the army because in that war the Americans often died. After the Vietnam War, the United States switched from a conscript army to a mercenary.
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 58 New
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        I write - their mistake was to refuse to attack North Vietnam
        1. Red Alert April 2 2020 23: 01 New
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          It is controversial that they invaded Cambodia, but this did not produce a result. A guerrilla war could begin in North Vietnam. I think the plans for the invasion of North Vietnam
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 23: 53 New
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            I believe that they needed to take Hanoi, establish the southerners regime there and swell the loot into the country's infrastructure, gradually withdrawing the army from there - it would be both cheaper and more efficient. Partisanism - yes, it would be their headache, but as investments increase and American relations with China improve, it would come to naught
            1. Alexey RA April 3 2020 12: 33 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              I think they should have taken Hanoi, establish there the southerners regime and swell the loot into the country's infrastructure

              Highlighted are mutually exclusive statements. smile
              Southerners and in the south mastered the loot allocated for the development of the country with the screech of a circular saw. And as if they were deployed in the North ... in short, theft, corruption, terror, occupation - welcome back, Vietnam. smile
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Partisanism - yes, it would be their headache, but as investments increase and American relations with China improve, it would come to naught

              This is China. Even now, they can calmly cooperate with the official authorities of the country with one hand and support the “freedom fighters” in it with the other.
              1. Krasnodar April 5 2020 00: 37 New
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                It’s also true, though ....
            2. Moskovit April 4 2020 12: 49 New
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              They did it very well in South Vietnam. It was not a country, but a picture.
        2. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 23: 56 New
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          Quote: Krasnodar
          I write - their mistake was to refuse to attack North Vietnam

          The mistake was to generally intervene!
      2. andrey-ivanov April 4 2020 10: 36 New
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        Young people began to mow down from the army because in that war the Americans often died.

        Young people began to actively mow when students of universities and colleges began to wool, and this is the middle class and above. While raking in guys from the working outskirts and blacks there were no special protests.
    8. Shuttle April 3 2020 08: 35 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      What a shame in Vietnam? laughing The Americans have not lost a single important fight,

      I am ashamed of the deeply respected by me personally cubanoids in your face if you really are from Krasnodar.
      In terms of the number of Americans killed, the Vietnam War is in fourth place after the Civil, World War II and World War I. Do you even know?

      Quote: Krasnodar
      just waged war in half measures - did not attack

      And in the air they defended your way? You know, you can’t play so much in Battlefield.
    9. Viktor Sergeev April 14 2020 08: 54 New
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      Scarecrow, they lost the war with a bang. Kutuzov did not win a single battle (Borodino arguably) won the war by correctly using the weather, conditions of the war, logistics and spirit. The Vietnamese defeated the United States to the fullest, causing them huge losses which the Americans oh how they do not like, preferring contactless war. War is not a duel between two knights, war is battles, supplies, morale and the one who is weaker loses, the USA turned out to be weaker.
    10. gsev 13 June 2020 19: 04 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      but there was no military defeat as such

      The true goals of the United States in Vietnam are hard to understand. In my opinion, the United States sought to have a weak, obedient Vietnam. I’m not sure that the victories of the northerners-communists of the USA were more afraid than the victories of the southern nationalists. They did not manage to defeat the Communists in Vietnam, although they won in Bolivia, Malaya, Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand. That is, there was no military victory. There was a military draw in Korea, but this draw became a political defeat for the United States. The DPRK remained in antagonistic positions with the United States and Vietnam, defeating the separatists in the South, and expelling the New Zealand, South Korean, Thai, and State occupiers, and now it has normal relations with the United States. If the United States did not get involved in a "dirty war," they would normalize relations with Vietnam much earlier.
  2. Threaded screw April 2 2020 18: 23 New
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    The assumption that the Soviet Union would remain aloof was Washington's gross mistake

  3. Free wind April 2 2020 19: 27 New
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    I don’t understand these groans about German and Japanese cities. They got what they deserve, they know it. If the Germans had received the atomic bomb in 42-45, they would have used it without hesitation. Our patriots cry oh, what Germans and Japanese are unhappy, oh, what vile Americans. It was necessary to reset the eclairs.
    1. knn54 April 2 2020 20: 07 New
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      And how then do the Americans and the British differ from the Nazis, who barbarously bombed Guernica, Belgrade?
      WHY they did not bombard the oil fields of Romania and Hungary. factories in the Ruhr. Then the war would end much earlier.
      And the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was more intended to intimidate the USSR, because the Japanese continued to fight until the USSR entered the war.
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 20: 43 New
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        Quote: knn54
        And how then do the Americans and the British differ from the Nazis, who barbarously bombed Guernica, Belgrade?
        WHY they did not bombard the oil fields of Romania and Hungary. factories in the Ruhr. Then the war would end much earlier.
        And the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was more intended to intimidate the USSR, because the Japanese continued to fight until the USSR entered the war.

        The factories in the Ruhr were bombed in full - Cologne was smashed into dust, as were Düsseldorf with Duisburg and Essen. Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki - and to intimidate the USSR and drive Japanese industry into the Stone Age.
        1. Avior April 2 2020 21: 05 New
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          Emperor Hirohito was definitely intimidated.
          He directly explained to the people the reason for consent to surrender in his speech
          ... the enemy has at his disposal a new terrible weapon that can take many innocent lives and inflict immeasurable material damage. If we continue to fight, this will not only lead to the collapse and destruction of the Japanese nation, but also to the complete disappearance of human civilization.

          In such a situation, how can we save millions of our subjects or justify ourselves before the sacred spirit of our ancestors? For this reason, we ordered that the terms of the joint declaration of our opponents be accepted.

          But the Soviet Union-not really scared ....
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 21: 32 New
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            Greetings! hi I think that for him the atomic bombing was a good excuse for surrender - in Japan, mentality and culture consider surrender unthinkable - bushido, etc.
            Why do I think so:
            1) Prior to the entry of the USSR into the war, Hiroshima counted on Stalin's mediation at the beginning of negotiations with the Allies on a peace treaty more or less settled for the Japanese
            2) The Japanese were counting on the unacceptable losses of the Americans when landing on the islands, which would be an additional factor in forcing the Allies into peace negotiations
            3) The Union’s entry into the war made this impossible - the Soviet troops, regardless of the losses, would have taken Hirohita and hanged - he remembered the fate of the Russian royal family
            4) Therefore, two nuclear bombings became an excellent excuse for him - the pope emperor saving his children - subjects
            1. Liam April 2 2020 21: 47 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              would take hirohita

              Did the USSR have a fleet to land and supply the millionth army to the Japanese islands?
              1. Avior April 2 2020 22: 13 New
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                The Americans had a fleet, and if necessary, they would have thrown Soviet allies.
                It was for this that in Yalta they agreed on the entry into the war of the USSR
              2. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 13 New
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                Buna syare, nurok! hi How is your situation there? The Americans would give to do this with Russian hands. There are many options ..
                1. Liam April 2 2020 22: 25 New
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                  Yes, like the light at the end of the tunnel. We hope that this is not the headlight of the train). By the middle of the month, if trends continue, the most severe restrictions will end, and by May we will roll up our sleeves and begin to restore the economy.
                  Well, who allowed the distribution of elephants. I think the lawyers will add wealthy clients)
                  The Americans would not have given anything. They decided in Yalta). Without a fleet, long-range aviation, with no infrastructure on the Far East, the landing on the islands is not even in the realm of fantasy. Moreover, the history of the landing even on miserable, incomparable scales in the framework of the Second World War is continuous sad results
                  1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 30 New
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                    Well, the landing on Malaya Zemlya was quite successful ... Americans could throw long-range aviation, who, in principle, insisted on the USSR joining the war against Japan ... would give watercraft too.
                  2. Avior April 2 2020 22: 54 New
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                    Why would they not give?
                    They invited the USSR to participate precisely for military operations directly in Japan, because of possible large losses, if not for this, they would not have invited, Japan was already isolated and it had no chance
                    1. Liam April 2 2020 23: 02 New
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                      Do you have information that somewhere, at least in theory, such plans were worked out?
                      1. Avior April 2 2020 23: 24 New
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                        It just didn't get to that.
                        At the time the USSR entered the war, the Americans already had nuclear weapons ready for use. Therefore, they began plan B.
                      2. Liam April 2 2020 23: 51 New
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                        Plans, deadlines, goals, theater of operations and production sharing - everything was determined back in Yalta and was strictly observed by the participants and in reality. The main territory of Japan is exclusively the business of the Anglo-Americans. After that, they picked out the Japanese for 4 years throughout MOT and Southeast Asia would let Comrade Stalin go there. They gave him the territories (and the theater of war) at the expense of China mainly. This laid the foundation for a warm friendship between the USSR and China for many decades to come)
                      3. Avior April 3 2020 00: 08 New
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                        Whatever happened on the continent, the position of Japan could not change, since Japan had no connection with the mainland.
                        There was no sense in inviting the USSR to the Americans without a plan to use the USSR in an invasion
                      4. Liam April 3 2020 00: 24 New
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                        We seem to be saying the same thing. The Americans did not see the need for the Red Army in Japan, did not want to, and never made any plans for this. Therefore, no fleets and aircraft can be borrowed for hypothetical invasions. This is an altistory
                      5. Avior April 3 2020 00: 34 New
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                        But there was no really accepted plan at all.
                        Early Downfall assumed a purely American invasion, but it was abandoned after calculating the loss
                        Later, they began to develop the Olympic, which was supposed to use the forces of the allies in the Pacific, but it was not brought to the end, the atomic bombings were earlier.
                        The fact is that the US military simply did not know about the development of atomic bombs
          2. hohol95 April 5 2020 23: 58 New
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            So you think that the landing in the Far East in 1945 was unsuccessful?
    2. Avior April 2 2020 22: 11 New
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      Actually, there is another explanation.
      The Americans might not have invaded Japan, but simply bombed and burned out their wooden cities with paper windows, as they did with Tokyo and Germany before, and the Japanese understood that the Americans could well do it. Moreover, at that time there were no conventions prohibiting this, on the contrary, the Hague conventions quite allowed such a method of warfare as bombing cities to force surrender, for the 19th and early 20th centuries this was commonplace.
      But there was a nuance.
      Due to the peculiarities of the air masses over Japan, mass raids, as in Germany, were difficult, so the Japanese believed that the Americans did not succeed in systematically destroying Japan until they forget about all resistance, and they did not fear mass raids.
      But the advent of nuclear weapons radically changed the situation.
      The Japanese did not know how many Americans had such bombs, firstly, and secondly, in order to kill Hirohito they did not need to invade the country now, it was enough to use atomic bombs for this, and Hirohito understood this very well, and understood that he - One of the first targets after warning bombing.
      Therefore, to hide behind the care of the nation, he hid himself, but he did not forget that these bombs are also waiting for him in the first place. Somehow the samurai spirit misfired and there was no desire to demonstrate seppuku.
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 17 New
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        A refuge in the mountains was being prepared for him - but not the point. Conventional bombing of Japan claimed more lives than atomic ones, and the Japanese could resist outside the cities - bamboo spears and old guns were distributed to the civilian population, the resistance would be total. Well this is my personal view, built on reading books of many Western historians.
        1. Avior April 2 2020 23: 10 New
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          The atomic bombings were shocking
          Nobody knew their real capabilities and scope.
          No one counted any shelters against such weapons
          Yes, the bombing of Tokyo claimed more Japanese than Hiroshima, but there was only one in Hiroshima - the only bomb, the Japanese did not know that they had a piece of the Americans, they imagined that they would sprinkle these bombs on them, as in conventional bombing.
          As soon as the emperor realized what kind of weapon was used, he immediately spoke of surrender in shock from the bombing
          After all, he could explain the surrender and the entry of the USSR into the war, which he later did, but in that first, shocking speech, he spoke specifically about bombs
    3. fk7777777 April 2 2020 22: 29 New
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      It was just that the USSR deprived them of their resources, surrounding the entire Kwantung army in 6 days. It was a shock for both the Yapis and the Allies, but there was really nothing to fight, the dumb Japanese hand-to-hand tactics of rushing at American machine guns did not work and what could they do?
      1. Avior April 2 2020 23: 03 New
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        The Kwantung army was isolated on the mainland and the defense of Japan could not help
        At that time, Japan was in complete sea blockade, it was impossible to leave or get there
        1. gsev April 3 2020 00: 47 New
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          Quote: Avior
          The Kwantung army was isolated on the mainland and the defense of Japan could not help

          U.S. submarines were able to break into the Sea of ​​Japan only in 1945, having received an armament device that allows direction finding and bypassing sea mines. It seems that only one massive operation of submarines in the Sea of ​​Japan was carried out .. Japan reassured itself with the hope that the USSR would enter into an alliance with it in order to protect itself from US hegemony.
      2. Alexey RA April 3 2020 13: 18 New
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        Quote: fk7777777
        It was just that the USSR deprived them of their resources, surrounding the entire Kwantung army in 6 days. It was a shock for the Yapis and for the Allies, but there was really nothing to fight

        In August 1945, the Kwantung Army had already surrendered the most combat-ready units to the Metropolis. And the main arms production was in the Metropolis.
  • Avior April 2 2020 20: 51 New
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    More like bombed

    Repeatedly
    Operation Tidal wave, for example, in the photo
  • Fat
    Fat April 3 2020 00: 03 New
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    Well, everything is normal! The blood of war is oil!
  • Alexey RA April 3 2020 12: 41 New
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    Quote: knn54
    WHY they did not bombard the oil fields of Romania and Hungary. factories in the Ruhr. Then the war would end much earlier.

    Ploiesti Yankees bombed. And about the factories ... you know why the Germans at the end of 1943 instead of the good old "things" had to put awkward self-propelled guns on the "four" chassis (instead of releasing linear tanks on these chassis) and engage in the ersatz "Hetzer"? Because in November, the main site of the Alkett factory, the main producer of self-propelled guns, dropped out of the production chain. First tried RAF, and then USAAF.
  • akims April 2 2020 20: 07 New
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    Of course, they would apply, but on what objects?
  • Krasnodar April 2 2020 20: 40 New
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    Quote: Free Wind
    I don’t understand these groans about German and Japanese cities. They got what they deserve, they know it. If the Germans had received the atomic bomb in 42-45, they would have used it without hesitation. Our patriots cry oh, what Germans and Japanese are unhappy, oh, what vile Americans. It was necessary to reset the eclairs.

    They forget about the bombing of Stalingrad and about the unfortunate Japanese - in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 30 Korean slaves died along with them, raped for a soldier of the imperial army, killed and ... eat a Korean or Polynesian woman for hello!
    1. Fat
      Fat April 2 2020 21: 42 New
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      Quote: Krasnodar
      for a soldier of the imperial army to rape, kill and ... eat a Korean or Polynesian was for hello!

      Give up. Cut cut. Eat squeamish.
      1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 18 New
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        On the islands, even local specialists were fattened to eat. Check out Hings and Beaver.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 22: 29 New
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          Yeah. I’m generally American sources, after the sailor Papay, I only perceive bullshit.
          More spinach?
          1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 22: 32 New
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            Then read the memoirs of the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese ..))
            1. Fat
              Fat April 2 2020 22: 56 New
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              Quote: Krasnodar
              Then read the memoirs of the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese ..))

              Do not believe me, I read, especially jap ha English. Easy: the enemy is a cannibal, beat him until everyone was caught. Actually Teishintai Toyubatsu Kogegi Tai ... Absolutely cannibal kooky
              . But not to the conquered Koreans and Chinese, to themselves meat, but in the colony vaasche ..
              1. Krasnodar April 2 2020 23: 01 New
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                I read the memories of one - the three girls were raped by a three, chopped off their head, dismembered and eaten ... tin ...
                1. Fat
                  Fat April 2 2020 23: 18 New
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                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  I read the memories of one - the three girls were raped by a three, chopped off their head, dismembered and eaten ... tin ...

                  Where did you read it? When? North Koreans generally survived on positions solely thanks to the help of the UN ... South Koreans. This conflict is generally outside the UN.
                  PS This Tin from the sailor Papay ...
                  “Kozi drink-drink, drip?” (C) Gorky A.M.
        2. Fat
          Fat April 3 2020 20: 23 New
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          Abaldet. Huts with beads. I read another. No less important, I know very well what japas did in occupied territories ....
          Uh ... NOT ate
      2. gsev April 2 2020 22: 34 New
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        Quote: Thick
        Give up. Cut cut. Eat squeamish.

        Unfortunately, they raped and ate. A lot of Korean soldiers were eaten, which were used to build fortifications on the Pacific islands blocked at the end of the war. Check out any Korean historical site.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 23: 01 New
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          I don’t read Krerenian. I’ll go ... Success double zero
          1. gsev April 3 2020 00: 38 New
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            Quote: Thick
            I do not read Krerenski

            Any link like Kore seram (Man from Korea). In Russia, Koreans speak and write in Russian. Some pages of even Russian history there are covered in more detail than on Russian Russian.
      3. WapentakeLokki April 3 2020 18: 21 New
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        ..but the women - they just disdained ... but the downed Amer pilots - easily ... Bush, the oldest downed off the coast of the metropolis, was wildly lucky, he was picked up by submariners, but his comrades who were shot down and captured were stupidly killed (..testing the katana ' "swallow blow" - the enemy’s liver was supposed to be eaten still warm ..) and this is the summer of the 45th ... well, samurai .. well scumbags ..
  • Shuttle April 3 2020 11: 23 New
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    Quote: Free Wind
    I don’t understand these groans about German and Japanese cities. They got what they deserve, they know it. If the Germans had received the atomic bomb in 42-45, they would have used it without hesitation. Our patriots cry oh, what Germans and Japanese are unhappy, oh, what vile Americans. It was necessary to reset the eclairs.

    These are not groans, this is regret for completely in vain since achieve our goals of war of human sacrifice. The USSR had the opportunity to obliterate Berlin from the face of the Earth as Stalingrad had been erased before. There was an opportunity sooner or later to destroy the Kurland group of Germans at the end of the war. The Red Army could exterminate some German or Hungarian city. But the Red Army fought a war with tasks very far from business, profit, and establishing control over profitable territories. For her, it was a war for freedom of labor, for the life of not only her people, but also for peace on the planet in the end. Therefore, the Red Army was not going to intimidate anyone - there was no such purpose. Best of all, this idea is expressed by the words of her Supreme Commander-in-Chief said on 23.02.42 in the order of NPO No. 55:

    ... Sometimes they talk in a foreign press that the Red Army has as its goal the extermination of the German people and the destruction of the German state. This, of course, is stupid nonsense and stupid slander against the Red Army. The Red Army does not and cannot have such idiotic goals. The Red Army aims to expel the German occupiers from our country and liberate Soviet land from Nazi invaders. It is very likely that the war for the liberation of Soviet land will lead to the expulsion or destruction of the Hitler clique. We would welcome a similar outcome. But it would be ridiculous to identify Hitler’s clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history says that the Hitlers come and go, but the German people, and the German state - remains ....

    I.V. Stalin.
    1. Alexey RA April 3 2020 17: 39 New
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      Quote: Shuttle
      These are not groans, this is regret for completely in vain since achieve our goals of war of human sacrifice. The USSR had the opportunity to obliterate Berlin from the face of the Earth as Stalingrad had been erased before. There was an opportunity sooner or later to destroy the Kurland group of Germans at the end of the war. The Red Army could exterminate some German or Hungarian city.

      From the point of view of the post-war world, the victims were not in vain. We have gained a strong and loyal ally

      But, unfortunately, they themselves passed it.
      1. Shuttle April 4 2020 07: 37 New
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        Quote: Alexey RA

        From the point of view of the post-war world, the victims were not in vain. We have gained a strong and loyal ally

        But, unfortunately, they themselves passed it.

        That's right. In vain, I consider such victims as the victims of the bombing of Dresden. This inhuman action, as I believe, had no other purpose than to demonstrate by the Allies their military capabilities before the advancing Red Army. Dresden was of no particular military value. Even the railway junction was not in the city itself. Speaking about the futility of the victims, I meant the civilian population of Dresden. And yes, you are absolutely right that, thanks not only to the policies of the Soviet leadership, but also to the heroism and sacrifice of Soviet soldiers, even defeated Germans could become a faithful and powerful ally for the USSR. The very example when in reality the class, real brotherhood of the working people is manifested.
  • Undecim April 2 2020 20: 05 New
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    Also during its course, more than 900 American combat aircraft were shot down.
    919 aircraft were shot down during 310 sorties. That is, for one flight, the Americans lost 000 aircraft or 0,003 aircraft per 3 sorties.
    1. Fat
      Fat April 2 2020 21: 54 New
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      Quote: Undecim
      Also during its course, more than 900 American combat aircraft were shot down.
      919 aircraft were shot down during 310 sorties. That is, for one flight, the Americans lost 000 aircraft or 0,003 aircraft per 3 sorties.

      Look at the alignment in time, when the losses began to grow exponentially, it came and butt in the operation.
      1. Undecim April 2 2020 22: 42 New
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        These losses relate only to the Rolling Thunder, which began in 1965 and ended in 1968, and not at all because of the losses, since the intensity of flights after that only increased.
        The total losses of US aircraft for the whole time are significantly greater (0,4 per 1000 sorties), but they began to grow after 1968.
        1. Fat
          Fat April 2 2020 23: 36 New
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          Well, who brought the United States to the "eggs"? Holy spirit? Or c75?
          1. Undecim April 2 2020 23: 38 New
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            Did someone bring the USA to your eggs? I do not envy you.
  • Living7111972 April 2 2020 20: 41 New
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    A friend of mine, being an officer of the USSR Air Defense, shot down American planes. But this is not about that, he has bullet wounds, the question of where - the Americans launched tactical assault forces on missile batteries. Not one of which was successful. According to the words - the Vietnamese covered our rocketers with bodies, they died, they stood to death, but at any cost they did not give the enemy any chance. As I remembered ... And his wounded man in his arms, women, like children as tall, dragged into some kind of ambulance for several kilometers.
    1. Avior April 2 2020 22: 27 New
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      Against the radar in Vietnam, the Americans used the Shriiki with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead, each with 20000 striking elements, and ball bombs to strike at the radar and launch positions
      And electronic warfare massively used
    2. fk7777777 April 2 2020 22: 31 New
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      The Vietnamese are really terminators, very hardy.
  • NordUral April 2 2020 22: 34 New
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    States - a country where gangsters are in power.
  • Santa Fe April 2 2020 22: 50 New
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    limited only to the supply of weapons, the training of soldiers and officers of the Viet Cong

    Vietkong - the enemy of the United States
  • Shuttle April 3 2020 07: 59 New
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    For starters, a little background. That the United States, seeing the complete futility of its own attempts to break North Vietnam, limited to only arms supplies, training Vietcong soldiers and officers and a small contingent of their own troops, "fit" into this conflict, which is called, head over heels, it became clear already in 1964.

    Mistake the Vietnamese was called the military unit of the armed forces of North Vietnam. This is a derogatory allusion to the enemy of the Americans to the name of the fantastic action movie about the huge monkey "King Kong". The Americans never called the South Vietnamese soldiers and officers Vietnamese, only the communists of the northerners.
    1. Bongo April 3 2020 15: 02 New
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      Quote: Shuttle
      Mistake the Vietnamese was called the military unit of the armed forces of North Vietnam. This is a derogatory allusion to the enemy of the Americans to the name of the fantastic action movie about the huge monkey "King Kong". The Americans never called the South Vietnamese soldiers and officers Vietnamese, only the communists of the northerners.

      The name “Viet Cong” (short for Việt Nam Cộng Sản - “Vietnamese Communist”) appeared in the second half of the 50s. Since the late 60s, the term Americans used to refer to all the Vietnamese communists.
      1. Shuttle April 4 2020 07: 28 New
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        Quote: Bongo
        Quote: Shuttle
        Mistake the Vietnamese was called the military unit of the armed forces of North Vietnam. This is a derogatory allusion to the enemy of the Americans to the name of the fantastic action movie about the huge monkey "King Kong". The Americans never called the South Vietnamese soldiers and officers Vietnamese, only the communists of the northerners.

        The name “Viet Cong” (short for Việt Nam Cộng Sản - “Vietnamese Communist”) appeared in the second half of the 50s. Since the late 60s, the term Americans used to refer to all the Vietnamese communists.

        Yes, that's right. I was mistaken too. But in any case, the US did not call the officers and soldiers whom they themselves trained as the Viet Cong.
    2. Valery56 30 June 2020 12: 21 New
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      Dear Dmitry, I agree with you. I read the article exactly to this place. Read more lost interest. Viet Cong is a military-political organization (Vietnamese communist) of South Vietnam. Later, this is a collective image of the partisans of South Vietnam and the regular troops of the DRV who took part in the liberation of Vietnam. It is not very comfortable to read what amateurs write.
  • Bongo April 3 2020 14: 57 New
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    The article is simply “about nothing” and is very reminiscent of similar publications of the “Red Star” of Soviet times. Sharp, ideologically sustained phrases with a minimum of content wassat
    Moreover, the author has very little idea of ​​what he writes:
    And already on July 24 of that year, the first American air raider was shot down by the Soviet S-75 Desna air defense system.

    In Vietnam, the S-75 Desna air defense system did not shoot down "American air raiders." no In the DRV in the 60s, only SA-75M Dvina air defense systems were delivered, with a guidance station operating in the 10 cm frequency range. This complex had a number of significant differences from the 6 cm S-75 Desna air defense system.
    1. sivuch April 4 2020 12: 55 New
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      I was always sure that I don’t have to answer right away - there is someone who will do it for you wink
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old26 April 19 2020 17: 40 New
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    Quote: Marine engineer
    "But there was no close military defeat ..."

    In any war, the opposing parties set themselves the goal they want to achieve.
    If the goal is achieved, victory; if not, defeat.
    Vietnam achieved its goal, but the United States did not.
    Conclusion: Vietnam won, the United States was defeated.

    Well then, we had a defeat in Afghanistan. The goal of creating a satellite of the USSR was not achieved. Like South Vietnam after the departure of the Americans lasted some time, so Najibula-after the withdrawal of the Soviet continent
    In one case and in another, there was no military defeat for the countries (USSR and USA)
  • Shteffan 3 May 2020 05: 59 New
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    Not Article, but one continuous propaganda. It remains to insert a couple of phrases- "the great party of Lenin", "the glory of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union," "peace to the world" and everything will fall into place. Where is the analysis, where are the numbers, statistics?
  • Petrik66 10 June 2020 09: 12 New
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    "among which the number of frightened Americans was rapidly growing to hiccup MiG-21" - Are you serious? "The fighters of our air defense became the terror of the US Air Force pilots - just as it was during the war in Korea" - About how. again agitation worthy of the war sheet of the construction battalion.