Denikin's resignation

100
Denikin's resignation

Wrangel in Sevastopol. 1920

After the loss of the Kuban and the North Caucasus, the remnants of the White Army were concentrated on the Crimean peninsula. Denikin reorganized the remnants of the army. On April 4, 1920, Denikin appointed Wrangel the Commander-in-Chief of the All-Union Socialist League.

Reorganization of the White Army


After the loss of the Kuban and the North Caucasus, the remnants of the White Army were concentrated on the Crimean peninsula. Denikin reorganized the remnants of the All-Union Union of Liberal Democratic Forces. The remaining troops were brought into three corps: Crimean, Volunteer and Don, Consolidated cavalry division and Consolidated Kuban brigade. The remaining excess headquarters, institutions and units gathered on the peninsula from all over the South of Russia disbanded. The remaining personnel was sent to staff the existing troops.



The headquarters was located in Feodosia. The Crimean corps of Slashchev (about 5 thousand fighters) still covered the isthmuses. A consolidated detachment (1,5 thousand people) was deployed in the Kerch region to ensure the peninsula from possible landing from Taman. All other troops were located in reserve, for rest and recovery. Volunteers stood in the region of Simferopol, donts - in Yevpatoriya. In general, Denikin’s army had 35-40 thousand people with 100 guns and about 500 machine guns. The forces were enough to defend the peninsula, but the army was tired physically and mentally, which created the basis for further decomposition. Not enough inventory weapons and equipment. If the volunteers took out their weapons, the Cossacks abandoned it.

The White Army received a respite. The Red Army occupied the northern exits from the Crimean isthmuses. But her forces in the Crimean direction were insignificant, the best units were diverted to the new Polish front. In addition, the offensive impulse of the Reds restrained the activities in the rear of the detachments of Makhno and other rebels. From the side of Taman, no preparation for the landing was observed. The Soviet command rated the North Caucasus operation as decisive and last. It was believed that whites were defeated and the remnants of their forces on the peninsula would be easily finished off. The transfer of significant white forces, their activity, willingness and ability to continue the struggle will come as a surprise to the Reds.

Search for the culprits


Crimea was the center of all kinds of intrigues, where the defeated army, the generals left without troops, and many refugees were now added. They were looking for the perpetrators of the defeat and saviors. The South Russian government of Melnikov, created in March 1920, did not actually begin work. In Crimea, they took him in hostility, criticizing him as being created as a result of an agreement with the autocrats. Denikin, in order to avoid conflict, abolished the South Russian government on March 30. Former members of the government left Sevastopol for Constantinople.

Officers and generals were also looking for the perpetrators of the military catastrophe. The scapegoat was one of the leaders of the Volunteer Army and the All-Union Socialist League, chief of staff of the Denikin army, General Ivan Romanovsky. He was considered the culprit of the defeats of the White Army. Accused of liberalism and Freemasonry. They accused of embezzlement, although he was an honest man and constantly experienced material problems. Rumors and gossip brought down the general. Denikin noted in his memoirs:

“This Barclay de Tolly of the volunteer epic took on all the anger and irritation that accumulated in the atmosphere of fierce struggle. Unfortunately, the character of Ivan Pavlovich contributed to the strengthening of hostile relations. He expressed his views bluntly and sharply, not clothed them in the accepted forms of diplomatic craftiness. "

Denikin was forced to remove the "bravest warrior, knight of duty and honor" Romanovsky from the post of chief of staff of the army. Soon Romanovsky, together with Denikin, would leave Crimea and leave for Constantinople. On April 5, 1920, he was killed in the building of the Russian Embassy in Constantinople, Lieutenant M. Kharuzin, a former employee of the counterintelligence of the White Army. Kharuzin considered Romanovsky a traitor to the White movement.

Meanwhile, they were actively intriguing against Denikin himself. The Don command believed that the volunteers “betrayed the Don” and suggested that the Cossacks leave the peninsula and make their way to their native villages. The command of the white front intrigued in favor of Wrangel. The Duke of Leuchtenberg proposed to revive the monarchy, advocated for Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich. The British proposed "democracy." Left without a destination, the generals Borovsky and Pokrovsky led their game. The new commander-in-chief was the former commander of the Caucasian Army Pokrovsky. The clergy, who led the extreme right, advocated Wrangel. Bishop Benjamin said that “in the name of the salvation of Russia,” General Denikin must be forced to resign and transfer it to General Wrangel. Like, only Wrangel will save the Motherland. Infected with universal bacchanalia, the commander of the Crimean corps, General Slashchev, also tried to play his game. He first contacted Wrangel, then Sidorin, then with the Duke of Leuchtenberg, then with Pokrovsky. Slashchev proposed that a meeting be convened and that Denikin should withdraw from command.


Romanovsky (far right) accompanies Denikin at his meeting with a group of Entente officers

The resignation of the commander


Volunteer Corps of General Kutepov remained the basis of the army and its most combat-ready part. The fate of the commander in chief depended on the mood of the volunteers. Therefore, many conspirators tried to persuade General Kutepov to their side. They all received a general refusal. Kutepov reported on these machinations and suggested that Denikin take urgent measures.

However, Denikin had already decided to leave his post. He convened a military council in Sevastopol to elect a new commander in chief. It included members of the headquarters, commanders of corps, divisions, units of brigades and regiments, commandants of fortresses, navy the command, which was out of work, but popular generals, including Wrangel, Pokrovsky, Yuzefovich, Borovsky, Schilling, etc. Denikin appointed General Dragomirov as chairman of the council. In a letter to Dragomirov, Denikin noted:

“God did not bless the success of the troops I led. And although faith in the vitality of the army and in it historical I have not lost my calling, but the internal connection between the leader and the army is broken. And I can’t lead her anymore. ”

Apparently, Denikin was just tired. Endless war and political intrigue. His authority in the troops fell. A new man was needed in which people would believe. The new leader could give new hope. The Military Council met on April 3, 1920. The meeting was stormy. Representatives of the Volunteer Corps unanimously wanted to ask Denikin to remain in his post and expressed full confidence in him. Volunteers categorically refused the election. When Dragomirov announced that this was the decision of Denikin himself, the volunteers began to insist that Anton Ivanovich himself appoint his successor. They were supported by the Kuban. The Don people announced that they could not point to a successor, believed that their representation was insufficient. Slashchev believed that his corps did not have a sufficient number of representatives at the meeting (under the conditions of a possible offensive by the Reds, part of the corps command remained at the forefront). He also noted that the election of the commander in chief could adversely affect the troops. The naval command advocated Wrangel.

As a result, they didn’t come to anything. Dragomirov sent a telegram to the commander in chief, where he wrote that the council recognized it impossible to resolve the issue of commander in chief. The military council asked Denikin to appoint a successor. At the same time, the fleet supported Wrangel, and the ground forces offered Denikin to keep his post. However, Denikin did not change his position. He replied: "Morally overwhelmed, I cannot stay in power for a single day." He demanded that the Military Council make a decision.

On April 4, Dragomirov shared the council, admitting only senior commanders to it. On the same day Wrangel arrived from Constantinople. He led the ultimatum of the British. England proposed stopping the unequal struggle and, through its mediation, begin negotiations with the Bolsheviks on peace under an amnesty for the population of Crimea and the white troops. In the event of rejection of this proposal, the British relieved themselves of responsibility and ceased any support and help to whites. Obviously, the British in this way supported the candidacy of Wrangel. The meeting itself was delayed again. They discussed the message of Britain for a long time. Slashchev said that he was against the election and went to the front. As a result, the opinion of the military leaders was in favor of Wrangel.

On April 4 (17), 1920, Denikin appointed Lieutenant General Pyotr Wrangel as the Commander-in-Chief of the FJUR. On the same day, Denikin and Romanovsky left the Crimea and went to Constantinople in foreign ships. After the death of Romanovsky, Denikin on a British ship left for England. In exile, Denikin tried to help the Wrangel army. He met with parliamentarians and members of the government, appealed to the ruling circles and the public, spoke in the press. He proved the fallacy of reconciliation with Soviet Russia and the cessation of aid to the White Army. In protest against the desire of London to make peace with Moscow, left England in August 1920 and moved to Belgium, where he devoted himself to historical work. He wrote the history of the Civil War - "Essays on Russian Troubles."


General A.I. Denikin on the day of his voluntary resignation from the post of commander in chief of the Armed forces of the South of Russia
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

100 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +5
    April 2 2020 06: 00
    So, "when there is no agreement in friends," you can lose your homeland too ...
    1. +8
      April 2 2020 06: 22
      Quote: svp67
      when there is no agreement in friends
      In general, the whites actually opposed the Motherland, and they generally did not have an "agreement" with Russia.
      1. +4
        April 2 2020 06: 43
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        In general, the whites actually opposed the Motherland, and they generally did not have an "agreement" with Russia

        I disagree radically. They had a homeland and part of the population supported them the same. You know, the "red" with "agreement" with the whole Russia, the same had BIG problems, especially the "Bolsheviks"
        1. +8
          April 2 2020 07: 19
          All the same, the white problems with the consent of Russia were many times greater, and the population that supported them was many times smaller, and their internal squabble was already so, in particular.
          1. 0
            April 2 2020 07: 25
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            and the population supporting them is much less

            I again disagree, practice shows that most of the population doesn’t care for anyone, if only he would be a winner ... since the victors write the story, they will write well about the support of the masses
            1. +8
              April 2 2020 07: 30
              Then how did it happen that the whites were swept out of Russia? And by the way, an indicator that a third of the tsarist officers served in the Red Army, it would seem, with their opponents.
              Quote: svp67
              practice shows that most of the population doesn’t care for anyone, if only he would be a winner
              Especially if the winners, the mass, are the same people as the people, if the winners are not satisfied with robberies and mass flogging and other arts.
              1. -2
                April 2 2020 07: 38
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Then how did it happen that the whites were swept out of Russia?

                At that stage, they were weaker precisely because of their disunity.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                And by the way, an indicator that a third of the tsarist officers served in the Red Army, it would seem, with their opponents.

                Especially if you know by what methods this was achieved, then you should not be very surprised.
                And the indicator that on the white side the regiments formed from workers and former captured Red Army soldiers fought to the end - is this not an indicator?
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Especially if the winners, in the mass, are the same people as in the people

                ??????? Forgive me, but how many workers and peasants, as a percentage, were in the government of Soviet Russia and what percentage of them was in general throughout the country. And of course, they are all "homo sapiens"
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                if the winners do not arrange robberies and mass flogging and other arts.

                Listen, but this could still be told before 1990, but not now. The Reds were not nearly liberal in suppressing disagreement and there were hundreds, if not thousands, of examples.
                1. +7
                  April 2 2020 08: 35
                  Quote: svp67
                  Especially if you know by what methods this was achieved, then you should not be very surprised.
                  Yes, and all the ex-officers were kept in such a way? Are you exaggerating too much? Over the top, so in my opinion.
                  Quote: svp67
                  And the indicator that on the White side the regiments formed from workers and former captured Red Army soldiers fought to the end is not an indicator
                  No, not an indicator. And how many such regiments were there? One and a half? Have you heard about forced mobilization? And about the subsequent desertion from the ranks of the valiant White Army.
                  Quote: svp67
                  Forgive me, how many workers and peasants, in percentage terms, were in the government of Soviet Russia and what percentage of them was in the whole country.
                  This percentage was significant even at the top of the Bolshevik government, let alone the Soviets on the ground. And, haha, it was just that the percentage in the White Government exceeded that, by the way, I don’t remember about the workers' and peasants' deputies, I don’t know about the soldiers' deputies, in the White Government. Maybe enlighten?
                  Quote: svp67
                  if the winners do not arrange robberies and mass flogging and other arts.
                  Listen, but this could still be told before 1990, but not now. The Reds were not nearly liberal in suppressing disagreement and there were hundreds of examples.
                  Robberies, rape is not a suppression of disagreement, their Bolsheviks did not suit, like mass flogging, in contrast. And it is true that before 90, now. But this is your appeal to the year 90 indicator, however.
                  1. -1
                    April 2 2020 08: 50
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Yes, and all the ex-officers were kept in such a way? Are you exaggerating too much? Over the top, so in my opinion.

                    Not all, just as with the whites, not all workers and former Red Army men were held by force.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    And how many such regiments were there? One and a half?

                    Read at least about the Izhevsk and Votkinsk labor divisions in Kolchak’s army.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Have you heard about forced mobilization?

                    Bolsheviks? Yes ... you are rushing arguments, not thinking that the opposite side acted the same way ...
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Robberies, rape is not a suppression of disagreement, their Bolsheviks did not suit,

                    Read Babel's "First Horse", maybe then your "blinders" will subside ...
                    1. +2
                      April 2 2020 10: 10
                      Quote: svp67
                      Read at least about the Izhevsk and Votkinsk labor divisions in Kolchak’s army.
                      Yes please:
                      Decomposition also began in the army, the backbone of which was workers. If initially the Prikamsky People’s Army was formed as a volunteer, then on August 18, forced mobilization was carried out, which later became common practice. AT during the last violent mobilization, even 16- and 50-year-olds were called...
                      ... Under the influence of external and internal causes in the rebel forces increased fermentation, their individual parts went over to the red side...
                      On November 14, the main parts of the Prikamsk People’s Army crossed the hastily built pontoon bridge across the Kama River [7]. In total, it took about Kama 15 000 fighters of the Votkinsk People’s Army and as many members of their families, as well as about 8000 combat-ready Izhevsk citizens and a certain number of civilians ...
                      ... The rebel forces that retreated behind Kama subsequently fought with the Bolsheviks as part of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk divisions of the Russian army, Admiral A. V. Kolchak. After the capture of Izhevsk and Votkinsk the vast majority of the personnel of the divisions deserted and went home [59] [60]. After the defeat of the whites, the majority of the Izhevsk fighters fighting in their troops settled in Manchuria and the United States. ...
                      These divisions were not workers and they did not “fight to the end”. They rebelled foolishly and out of greed, killed the Bolsheviks and sympathizers, and then they had to save the skin. Not an indicator they are.

                      Quote: svp67
                      Have you heard about forced mobilization?

                      Bolsheviks? Yes ... you are rushing arguments, not thinking that the opposite side acted the same way ...
                      Yes, I’m aware of the reciprocity, but it didn’t help the whites, because the Bolsheviks were the masses.
                      Quote: svp67
                      Read Babel's "First Horse", maybe then your "blinders" will subside ...
                      Maybe "Cavalry"? And where is there about robberies, rapes and massive flogging by the Red Army? And there is no there, except for a couple of private episodes and those are ambiguous. And the "blinkers" you have, the times of "Ogonkovsky" "revelations" are similar.
                      1. 0
                        April 2 2020 11: 44
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        These divisions were not workers and they did not “fight to the end”. They rebelled foolishly and out of greed, killed the Bolsheviks and sympathizers, and then they had to save the skin. Not an indicator they are.

                        They were the most combat-ready in the admiral's army and fought to the end. And your arguments, this is an attempt to discredit their actions
                        And what about the Samursky regiment?
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Maybe "Cavalry"?

                        Yes
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        But no, except for a couple of private episodes and even those ambiguous.
                        Okay, okay, but let's read this, from the archives ..
                        Summary of the Kiev Commission of the Eurocommittee on the pogroms of the Jewish population by units of the 1st Cavalry Army in the Kiev province. at the beginning of October 1920
                        Not earlier than October 8, 1920 *
                        Pliskov Kievsk [th] province., Lipovets [th] county
                        In October 1920 the town was attacked by the Budennovites. They broke into houses and synagogues and robbed Jews. 5 pax killed in the most brutal way. The slogan of the rioters was "Beat the Jews, save Russia."
                        Wahnovka Kiev [o] province., Lipovets [o] county
                        On October 2 [January] 1920, units of the 6th Cava [Aleri] division made a number of raids on Jewish apartments. The pogrom in the full sense of the word began on October 3 [January]. Soldiers burst into Jewish houses in batches, demanded money, robbed, beat and killed Jews, tearing holy books. Almost all Jewish women were raped, without distinguishing age. In the evening, soldiers set fire to many Jewish houses, preventing the fire from being extinguished. As a result, 28 were killed, 30 were seriously injured, about [olo] 100 were lightly injured, about 20 houses were burned, and a lot of raped people. The police tried to stop the pogrom, but to no avail.
                        Zozovo of the Kiev lips. Lipovec county
                        On the beginning of October, a small detachment of Budennovites entered the town. They began to arouse the soldiers of the 8th division against the Jews and jointly staged a pogrom.
                        From the robberies affected the entire Jewish population. They took away clothes, shoes, food supplies, broke furniture, tore pillows, etc. 9 Jews killed in the most atrocious manner.
                        Jews hid in cellars and gardens, but the soldiers looked for them and, if they found, beaten, wounded or killed.
                        m. Samgorodok of the Kiev province. Berdychiv district
                        In early October 1920, the 6th Division of the 1st Cavalry Army organized a pogrom in the town. The main forces of the division began the pogrom, and on the very first day they robbed a large part of Jewish apartments and shops. In the following days, soldiers raided groups in groups. All Jewish apartments have broken glass, robbed or broken things.
                        In addition to robberies, the Budennovites killed several Jews. About 30 women were raped, and those who resisted were mutilated. (Information [given] was given to the Kiev] Eurocommunity. Comrade Vaysberg).
                        Tarashcha, Kiev province.
                        On October 8, 1920, the Budyonnovsky intelligence entered the city, a total of 12-15 people, who began to rob Jews. The next day, the 6th Cavalry Division passed through the city. Of
                        she stood out a detachment of people in 130, rushed to rob Jews. The slogan of the rioters was: "Beat the Yids and Communists." They brutally killed Jews, threw them into the river, raped women, set fire to houses. The pogrom continued until October 11th. In total, about 50 Jews were killed, 100-110 people were injured, 5 houses were burned and almost the entire Jewish population was robbed. The pogrom stopped due to the approach of a detachment of pro-soldiers.
                        (Information given by Comrade Rakhlis to the Kiev Eurocommittee, and testimony written by the Commissioner of the Kiev Eurocommittee Comrade Gergel.)
                        Spidency of the Kiev lips. Berdychiv district
                        On October 4, 1920, a detachment of about 50 people separated from the Budyonnovsk part, which robbed a large part of the Jewish population, and two Jews were killed.
                        On October 5, robberies continued, with the servants of the convoy of the 47th division joining the robbers. On the same day, a cavalry squadron arrived from Vakhnovka, who cordoned off a place and began to rob, kill and rape Jews. Those who tried to escape from the place, the soldiers caught and killed. There was a case when several women, wanting to avoid violence, rushed into the river. The soldiers pulled them out and raped them. In general, the pogrom was extremely cruel. Children broke their heads on stones, women
                        cut off breasts, etc. Several dozen people were killed, more than 100 women were raped,
                        the population is completely robbed, the houses are destroyed. (Report of Comrade Tub and Karasik to the Kiev European Community and testimony recorded by the Secretary of the Kiev Provincial Assistance to the pogromized Comrade Eppel.)
                        Rossosh (St. Lipovets)
                        The entire Jewish population was robbed by units of the 6th Cavalry Division. There are killed and wounded (report by Comrades Tub and Karasik).
                        Ilyintsy
                        Parts of the 6th division occupied and robbed the place three times. Plundered
                        about 40 houses.
                        Dashev
                        Parts of the 6th Cavalry Division robbed the town (dokl [hell] comrades Tub and
                        Karasik).
                        Makarov
                        Budyonnovtsy entered the town, supposedly to fight with the surrounding gangs,
                        and they themselves robbed the entire population. (The testimony of Rabbi M. Makarov, recorded by the Commissioner of the Kiev Eurocommittee, Comrade Gergel.)
                        d. Nastenki
                        The Budennovites killed 2 Jews and 4 wounded (testimony) recorded by KOPE in Kiev).
                        Monastery
                        At the beginning of October, a detachment of Budennovites entered the town. The soldiers mocked the Jewish population, and at night they robbed a place and killed three Jews. The next day, a large detachment passed through the town, which robbed all Jewish houses and shops (information from the Kiev Eurocommittee).
                        Talnoe
                        In early October 1920, parts of the Budennovites passed through the town,
                        who defeated the police and then robbed the Jewish population and killed
                        6 pax (Information from the Kiev Eurocommittee.)

                        GA of the Russian Federation. F. R-1339. Op. 1. D. 424. L. 119-119 about. Copy.
                      2. +1
                        April 2 2020 12: 50
                        Quote: svp67
                        They were the most combat-ready in the admiral's army and fought to the end. And your arguments, this is an attempt to discredit their actions
                        These are the facts, and your argument is an attempt to present them as knights.
                        Quote: svp67
                        And what about the Samursky regiment?

                        Yes, not really reviews:
                        In 1905, during the then Revolution that broke out in Russia, the regiment's battalions were sent to guard the Rostov-Baku railway, and in the Deshlagar tract, the place of the regiment’s permanent deployment, there were, apart from the headquarters, a non-combatant company and training and music teams, the lower ranks of which are the night of July 17, 1906, organized an uprising in the regiment [1]. .... The rebels captured the Deshlagar fortification, post office, telegraph, armory, guardhouse and barracks. During a scuffle by them, the regiment commander Colonel V.-G., who came out to meet them from his house, was killed. F. Lemkul. Three officers and a regimental priest were killed along with him. ... Non-commissioned officers elected by the rebels, non-commissioned officer Fedot Samoilenko [3] sent telegrams to Vladikavkaz, Baku and Kusary informing them that “the Deshlagar garrison took power into their own hands” [4], after which the rebels began to adhere to expectant tactics [2]. ..
                        ... In June 1918, the Drozdovsky regiment captured many Red Army soldiers in battle. Of those who wished to go over to the side of the Volunteer Army, the 1st regiment soldier was formed, which, having distinguished itself in the battle for the village of Tikhoretskaya, a few days later received the name of the 1st infantry soldier regiment. Later, the banner of the 83rd Samur Infantry Regiment was handed over to the regiment, and it became known as Samur ...
                        Something from the "multitude of Red Army men" of the whole battalion was recruited, and then they caught up with the regiment, it does not pull on massive support from the population. Not to mention the pre-revolutionary "popularity" of the tsarist power in the regiment.
                        Yes, as usual, admirers of the tsarist and the "white knights" are throwing out the horrors of Bolshevism:
                        Quote: svp67
                        Okay, okay, but let's read this, from the archives ..
                        Summary of the Kiev Commission of the Eurocommittee on the pogroms of the Jewish population by units of the 1st Cavalry Army in the Kiev province. at the beginning of October 1920
                        Not earlier than October 8, 1920 *

                        Yes, only on this and everything hangs, but I will add:
                        “I’m informing you that yesterday and today the 6th division of the 1st Cavalry Army passed through the location of the division entrusted to me, which carries out mass looting, murders and pogroms along the way. Over 30 people were killed yesterday, [in m.] Salnitsa killed the chairman of the Revolutionary Committee and his family, in metro Lubar more than 50 people. killed. The command and commissioners are not taking any measures. Now pogrom in Ulanov continues, in which three squadrons of the 2nd brigade of the 6th division of the 1st Konarmia take part. What will be the orders from you: whether to use armed force against the rioters in view of the fact that the commanding staff also takes part in the pogrom; the fight against the rioters will obviously take the form of an armed clash between my Cossacks and Budyonnovtsy. Yesterday I spoke with the 6th chief. Nachdiv informed me that the military commissar of the division and
                        several officers were killed a few days ago by their soldiers for shooting bandits
                        . The masses of soldiers do not listen to their [omandirov] ditches and, according to the nachdiv, they no longer obey him. The 6th division goes to the rear with the slogans “Beat the Yids, Communists, Commissars and Save Russia”, on the lips of the soldiers the name of Makhno as the leader who gave this slogan. ... At the [h] headquarters [b] southwest Petin. Commissar of Jordan. "
                        I order immediately one of the members of the Revolutionary Military Council of the army to go to the location of the 8th Cavalry Division to verify the correctness of the above report; when
                        the credibility of the report immediately put the 6th Cavalry Division in order and, e
                        if it were necessary to use armed force
                        , then lean on the 8th Cavalry Division. To inform about the performance. No. 5764 op.

                        Signed: Pre-Military Council Trotsky, Commander-in-Chief Kamenev and RVSR Member Danishevsky.
                        So it was not the Bolsheviks who organized pogroms and other things, they were just fighting this.
                        Separate pogroms in Ukraine were committed by the Red Army: in Rossava (February 1919), in Uman (May 1919), in Lubar (May 1920), pogroms were staged by the Bogunsky and Tarashchansky regiments of the First Cavalry Army. Particularly brutal pogroms were organized by the First Cavalry Army during the retreat from Poland in late August 1920. As a rule, the Soviet authorities severely punished the rioters, most often shot them. For example, in September 1920, K. Voroshilov, member of the revolutionary military council of the First Horse Army, disbanded the sixth division I. Apanasenko for the pogrom; 153 rioters were shot.

                        https://allin777.livejournal.com/35056.html
                        By the way, from where your link came from, only for some reason you modestly ignored it.
                      3. +1
                        April 2 2020 13: 21
                        Vladimir_2U "By the way, from the same place where your link comes from, but for some reason you modestly kept it silent."
                        laughing It happens.))) I think the Cossacks out of habit took part in the pogroms. And on desertion, we can say that in a civil war it is a scourge of armies. And at first they fled from the Reds. And they fled from the whites all the time.
                      4. -1
                        April 2 2020 14: 20
                        Quote: Nagaibak
                        And on desertion we can say that in the civil war it is a scourge of armies
                        Yes, an interesting case, by the way, is always attributed to the art of desertion gangs against the townsfolk in red.
                      5. +1
                        April 2 2020 20: 32
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        These are the facts, and your argument is an attempt to present them as knights.

                        Not on your nelly. This is an attempt to show that the conflict in our country was much deeper than what you are trying to show
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Something from the "many Red Army men" of the whole battalion was recruited,

                        This is the story of only one regiment. And so that the "white", that the "red" did not hesitate to "mobilize" prisoners
                    2. +4
                      April 2 2020 10: 22
                      Quote: svp67
                      Read Babel's "First Horse", maybe then your "blinders" will subside ...
                      Read Sholokhov's "Quiet Don". Where the Cossacks were engaged in outright robbery of all good, including the property of their own Cossack neighbors, who went to the Reds, while the Reds requisitioned what was needed for the front - primarily horses.
                      1. +1
                        April 2 2020 11: 46
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        Where the Cossacks were engaged in outright robbery of all the good, including the property of their own Cossack neighbors, who had gone to the Reds, while the Reds requisitioned what was needed for the front — primarily horses.

                        And somewhere I denied the "atrocities" of the whites? But, forgive me, I'm not going to make "angels" out of the "red"
                      2. +1
                        April 2 2020 19: 26
                        In the Civil War there are no whites and fluffy. There may be some more decent, while others are decent.
                      3. +1
                        April 2 2020 20: 26
                        Quote: vladcub
                        There may be some more decent, while others are decent.

                        Or they can do without them at all ...
                      4. +1
                        April 3 2020 12: 53
                        Sergey, the human nature is such that there is: lodar - he will get tired of killing, workaholics - will be like a machine, evil opinion and vice versa
                2. +4
                  April 2 2020 08: 52
                  Quote: svp67
                  ... And the indicator is that on the white side the regiments formed from workers fought to the end

                  They had nowhere to go.
                  There is a well-known saying: "The war will end, everyone will go home, and the residents of Izhevsk and Votkinsk will go to their graves." They were perceived as traitors, as "Vlasovites" during the Great Patriotic War.
                  PS Please do not start discussing the objectivity of "perception" and the possibility of the threat being realized.
                  1. -1
                    April 2 2020 09: 00
                    Quote: Caretaker
                    They had nowhere to go.

                    And .... And who brought them to such a life that they rebelled against the "red"?
                    And what about Kronstadt? And the Tambovites? Yaroslavl? Something too much "Vlasov". In general, the "Vlasovites" are traitors to the Motherland, who sided with its mortal enemies. And then there was a CIVIL WAR. Don't confuse times and circumstances
                    1. +1
                      April 2 2020 09: 25
                      That is why the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists must finally HONESTLY admit that it was YOU who unleashed the Civil War with the aim of capturing Russia, and you were collaborator traitors who collaborated with the invaders of your Motherland. But you never admit it, because you never admit guilt for your crimes.
                      1. -2
                        April 2 2020 09: 32
                        Quote: tatra
                        That is why the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists

                        But what about the enemies of the "Menshevik-Communists"?
                        Quote: tatra
                        what is it you unleashed a civil war

                        Sorry, but the facts suggest otherwise. The civil war, however, was unleashed by the "Bolsheviks" and those who joined them, dispersed the Constituent Assembly, where questions about power could be resolved by PEACEFUL
                        Quote: tatra
                        and were collaborator traitors who collaborated with the invaders of their homeland.

                        Excuse me, but how then to assess the use of foreign troops on the side of the "red"? What's this?
                        Quote: tatra
                        because you never admit guilt for your crimes

                        Are you ready to do this?
                      2. +3
                        April 2 2020 09: 41
                        The other day I asked one provocateur - so, the Bolsheviks disbanded the US, and WHAT next, how could a large-scale armed Civil War flare up from this? And he could not answer, because all the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists use "manuals", the meaning of which they themselves do not understand, unable to prove and substantiate them. And I will also answer you, as well as to him, the justification of those who unleashed the Civil War in Russia after the October Revolution, including the justification of the invaders of Russia for the interventionists, is a crime against Russia and its people.
                      3. -1
                        April 2 2020 11: 23
                        Quote: tatra
                        I already asked a provocateur the other day — here, the Bolsheviks dismissed the CSS, and WHAT further, how could a large-scale armed Civil War flare up from this?

                        It's bad that the person, having said "A", could not answer you about "B".
                        I’ll tell you ... The abdication of the Emperor’s power was supported by the communication that, according to the old Russian tradition, the further political fate of Russia would be decided at the All-Russian Constituent Assembly.
                        Because the government was Provisional, that it worked before it was held.
                        Now think about how it happened that, in your words, "the Bolsheviks who have the overwhelming support of the population" dispersed it ... Yes, simply because they did not have this support. It just wasn't, even in the Soviets.
                        But they were really very decisive, not only did they disperse the meeting, and they shot several demonstrations in protest of this, in St. Petersburg and Moscow, with these actions they firstly shed blood, in a civil confrontation, and secondly, they proved themselves "illegal ", both in the eyes of the people and the world community. I can't say anything good about Mr. Adolf Hitler, but he and his party came to power in a legal way ... so they really enjoyed the full support of the population then. These are the freaks of history.
                      4. 0
                        11 May 2020 16: 08
                        At the beginning of the Civil War, the Reds had an overwhelming advantage. The "ice campaign" of the volunteer army (February-May 1918) was the only active White action during this period, and this, in fact, a handful of officers were constantly under the threat of complete destruction, but constantly knocked down the red screens, because for them, in contrast from the Reds, every fight was the last. The volunteer army did not have a strong rear and any significant area for mobilization, whether voluntary or compulsory, and when it broke out of the ring, and of course, the volunteers still could not conduct active offensive operations, and would have been crushed anyway. It was restless on the Don, but the Cossacks hesitated - the fate of Ataman Kaledin was still fresh in the memory. It should also not be forgotten that, in accordance with the terms of the Brest-Litovsk Peace, it was during this period that Germany and Austria-Hungary occupied Ukraine, Belarus almost without resistance, and rounded up the occupation of the Baltic states, but still did not move further. Perhaps Wilhelm, unlike Hitler, was afraid to go too far.

                        I’m not going to criticize the Brest Peace here - apparently, at that moment there really was no other way out, and this world is not the result of the dispersal of some meeting there, but Order No. 1 of the Provisional Government, which caused almost complete decomposition by October 1917 army. If the Provisional Government did sit still (the situation was rather uncertain), it would be forced to do about the same.

                        But the order of Comrade. Trotsky on the disarmament of the Czechoslovak corps (May 25), which was peacefully traveling to Vladivostok with heavy weapons, provoked a revolt of the Czechoslovak corps and the Czechoslovak intervention, which quite wide sections of the population accepted with a bang. The last echelons of the corps were at that moment in Penza. The Japanese, by the way, also landed in Vladivostok at that moment - to protect the lives and property of Japanese citizens, of course. Here the Whites, under the cover of the Czechoslovakians, consolidated and became more active. Without a disarmament order, the Chelyabinsk incident could possibly have been silenced. I believe that Comrade Trotsky could not help but understand that the weak detachments of the Red Guard were not able to disarm the 50-strong Czechoslovak corps, armed to the teeth. As a result, a front immediately emerged along the Trans-Siberian Railway from Penza to Vladivostok, and the socialist Fatherland was in danger. Such is the nuance. Whatever the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly.

                        We were taught in such a way that the action of the Czechoslovak corps is, by the way, and it is not an intervention. It's just some kind of rebellion - "the rebellion cannot be successful, then it is called differently." Well, of course. Brothers Czechs. But in fact, this is the first act of intervention on the territory of Russia proper, much more ambitious than everything that happened before, if we exclude Ukraine and Belarus from consideration - the Soviet government had absolutely no forces against a million Austro-Germans, and for the time being until the time Ukraine and Belarus were cut off. It was after the speech of the Czechoslovak corps that the Civil War became widespread. Before that, there were separate foci.
                      5. +6
                        April 2 2020 11: 53
                        Quote: svp67
                        Sorry, but the facts suggest otherwise. The civil war, however, was unleashed by the "Bolsheviks" and those who joined them, dispersed the Constituent Assembly, where questions about power could be resolved by PEACEFUL

                        Listen, before the Bolsheviks, General Kornilov tried to disperse the Constituent Assembly ("Kornilov revolt"), it was simply unsuccessful. The Constituent Assembly did not resolve any issues, therefore it was dispersed as unnecessary. It is not necessary to hang everything on the Bolsheviks. By the way, Kornilov, and his supporters (ataman Kaledin, with whom Kornilov was stirring up during the time of Kerensky), began a civil war, and then it started - Potelkov shot the captive Chernetsov and his detachment on the Don, then Potelkov was executed by the Cossacks, and all 80 people from his detachment and off we go
                      6. +2
                        April 2 2020 12: 03
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        Listen, before the Bolsheviks, General Kornilov tried to disperse the Constituent Assembly ("Kornilov revolt"), it was simply unsuccessful.

                        How was it possible to disperse what has not yet been carried out? Where is the logic? It’s possible not to let it pass, although we don’t know what Kornilov wanted. By the way, Kornilov, as a candidate, was not worse than Lenin, even that nobleman, a representative of the exploiting class. But could not. But Lenin could.
                      7. +2
                        April 2 2020 13: 26
                        Quote: svp67
                        How was it possible to disperse what has not yet been carried out? Where is the logic?
                        well, a little wrong, confused with the Provisional Government. But where did you get the idea that this is an abstract meeting in many respects, which either decided during the crisis ?!
                        Quote: svp67
                        By the way, Kornilov, as a candidate, was not worse than Lenin, even that nobleman, a representative of the exploiting class.
                        Well, you give - Kornilov, this is a military dictatorship, General. And Lenin is a thinker in the first place, the head of the party, with new ideas. Kornilov could not, because behind him there was nothing but his own ambitions
                      8. 0
                        April 2 2020 20: 37
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        But where did you get the idea that this is an abstract meeting in many respects, which either decided during the crisis ?!

                        History can no longer be rewritten. And I answered the promise of universal popular support. Had it been and it would not have been necessary to disperse this meeting. Just would call the Bolsheviks to power and all
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        Well, you give - Kornilov, this is a military dictatorship, General. And Lenin is a thinker in the first place, the head of the party, with new ideas.

                        Excuse me, but Lenin is also a DICTATURE, a dictatorship of the proletariat
                      9. +4
                        April 2 2020 14: 12
                        Quote: svp67
                        Kornilov, as a candidate - not nearly worse than Lenin

                        In the eyes of the majority, at that time there was nobody better than Lenin, because only his party was in favor of an IMMEDIATE end to the war - the idea that has the greatest demand. The rest supported the continuation of the war, and therefore lost.
                      10. 0
                        April 2 2020 18: 58
                        Here I agree: the Bolsheviks caught what the peasants wanted to hear. At the very beginning, the Bolsheviks conquered the pretty peasants
                      11. +1
                        April 2 2020 20: 38
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        only his party was in favor of an IMMEDIATE end to the war - the idea that has the greatest demand. The rest supported the continuation of the war, and therefore lost.

                        Not quite right. Then the Bolsheviks supported the Left Social Revolutionaries
                      12. +2
                        April 2 2020 15: 34
                        Generally speaking, L. G. Kornilov was of "vile" origin, and not of the "noble".
                        Kornilov, the politician was worse than Kornilov, the soldier
                      13. +2
                        April 2 2020 15: 51
                        Quote: vladcub
                        Kornilov, the politician was worse than Kornilov, the soldier

                        Leo, with the head of a ram ...... so called.
                3. +3
                  April 2 2020 14: 07
                  Quote: svp67
                  Especially if you know by what methods this was achieved, then you should not be very surprised.

                  So it has long been known. The methods were very different. For instance:
                  1. "..then all of our people went to the Don, to Krasnov. And where am I after a shell shock? But then I knew nothing but how to fight. And just then they announced recruitment for the Red Army."
                  2. "I and my soldiers at the front during the war years (1 MV-SM) became close. And then they all went to the Reds. Well, where am I from them?"
                  3. "... we, your old comrades in arms, appeal to your feelings of love and devotion to your homeland and appeal to you with an urgent request to forget all insults, no matter who and wherever they inflicted them, and voluntarily go with complete selflessness and willingness to the Red Army and serve there not for fear, but for conscience, so that with our honest service, not sparing life, to defend Russia dear to us at all costs and to prevent its plundering ... "
                  And the main role was played, of course, by the geographical factor. Those who ended up on the "red" territory went to the red ones, who went to the other ... Whoever sent the summons went to that one.
                  Quote: svp67
                  on the white side to the end fought regiments formed from workers and former captured Red Army soldiers - is this not an indicator?

                  Definitely an indicator. Especially in light of the fact that the regiments of Izhevsk and Votkintsy were trying to keep the white command away from each other for fear that they would arrange a mutual civil war of a local scale ... Disunity, disunity ... negative
                  1. -1
                    April 2 2020 15: 39
                    Sakhar Medovich, if I am not mistaken, is from Brusilov?
                    1. -1
                      April 2 2020 15: 41
                      p. 3 - yes. But not only from Brusilov.
            2. +6
              April 2 2020 07: 47
              Quote: svp67
              ... practice shows that most of the population doesn’t care for whom, if only he was a winner ...

              Practice what?
              Who is the winner?
              The participants in the confrontation cannot be "all the same".
              In order to be a winner, you must first become one.
              1. -2
                April 2 2020 07: 50
                Quote: Caretaker
                Practice what?

                Civil strife ...
                Quote: Caretaker
                Who is the winner?

                Your opponents in a civil confrontation
                Quote: Caretaker
                The participants in the confrontation cannot be "all the same".

                To the participants - no, but to the observers, yes ... otherwise they would be transferred to the category of participants
                Quote: Caretaker
                In order to be a winner, you must first become one.

                And in order to become one, one must apply skill, willpower and perseverance in achieving the goal, and often unscrupulousness in choosing methods and allies
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. +2
              April 2 2020 14: 55
              I agree. If you look carefully, in the spring of 1920, not all of Russia supported the Bolsheviks: for many Ukrainian villagers Makhno is an idol, in many provinces the Social Revolutionaries were strong
            5. +2
              April 2 2020 15: 21
              I agree: most of the peasants were purple whose power in the city. The men in the villages had enough weapons and enough "shtetl" atamans
          2. 0
            April 2 2020 12: 50
            Business is that - "we give land to the peasants, we drive the workers into the shops to work 8 hours a day" - the toad strangled the noble landowners-manufacturers.
            England-USA how did they work? how was the land dispersed?
            REALLY IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE - IT IS POSSIBLE AND NECESSARY !!! - HALF MEASURES FROM DECREE OF THE RCP (B) TO ANNOUNCE?
        2. +3
          April 2 2020 07: 35
          Quote: svp67
          ... They had their homeland and the same part of the population supported them.

          The smaller part. The farther, the less.
          1. -4
            April 2 2020 07: 41
            Quote: Caretaker
            The farther, the less.

            Once again, the people are always for those who win ... Especially if the winner is firm and consistent in suppressing disagreement
            1. +3
              April 2 2020 08: 31
              Quote: svp67
              ... Once again, the people are always for those who win ... Especially if the winner is firm and consistent in suppressing disagreement

              You confuse cause and effect. In the Civil War, the one for whom the people wins. The winner is the one who offers goals and means of achievement acceptable for the active (passionate) part of the population.
              Quote: svp67
              To the participants - no, but to the observers, yes ... otherwise they would be transferred to the category of participants

              When the absolute majority of "observers" passed into the category of "participants", the interventionists / allies finally realized the futility of helping the minority, which reduced losses and time of confrontation.
              The White movement, at the final stage of the Civil War, "can be compared to a" galvanized "corpse. Without external interference, it will stop moving and continue to decay.
              1. +1
                April 2 2020 08: 55
                Quote: Caretaker
                In the Civil War, the one for whom the people wins.

                No ... in the Civil War, the one who has a more militant organization and knows how to use the moment wins. The current Ukraine has shown this excellently.
                Quote: Caretaker
                When the absolute majority of "observers" passed into the category of "participants", the interventionists / allies finally realized the futility of helping the minority, which reduced losses and time of confrontation.

                The interventionists just saw who was winning ...
                Quote: Caretaker
                The White movement, at the end of the Civil War, "can be compared to a" galvanized "corpse.

                But this does not mean that it did not enjoy the support of a part of the population, even at that moment and after that ... The White Guard underground operated, and it cannot do this a priori without the support of the population
                1. -1
                  April 2 2020 09: 43
                  Quote: svp67
                  But this does not mean that it did not enjoy the support of part of the population, even at that moment

                  Disappearing smaller part, "at that moment".
                  Let's start a new one?
                  Quote: svp67
                  ...and after that...

                  Even now finds support on your part.
                  Quote: svp67
                  ... The White Guard underground operated, but without the support of the population it cannot do this a priori

                  He can act without the support of the population, but he cannot win.
                  Will we discuss collaborators during the Great Patriotic War?
                  1. -1
                    April 2 2020 09: 52
                    Quote: Caretaker
                    Disappearing smaller part, "at that moment".
                    Let's start a new one?

                    Want to? Yes Easy
                    Quote: Caretaker
                    Even now finds support on your part.

                    I am just stating a historical fact
                    Quote: Caretaker
                    He can act without the support of the population, but he cannot win.

                    Then, judging by the results and current situation, they always enjoyed this support.
                    Quote: Caretaker
                    Will we discuss collaborators during the Great Patriotic War?

                    And where are they now in the Civil War?
                2. +2
                  April 2 2020 18: 51
                  "the interventionists just saw who was winning" Sergei, here I agree with you (almost) by and large the intervention stopped by 1919. This was also on the site. Both the Greeks and the French and who else was there. We were forced to reel fishing rods. With the Japanese, a slightly different "music" in
            2. +3
              April 2 2020 08: 33
              "I repeat once again that the people are always for those who win ... Especially if the winner is firm and consistent in suppressing dissent"

              stupidity ... the Germans in 41 reached Moscow - my ancestors were not for them, yours may have been - I don’t know ... my grandfather died in Moscow on December 41 near Moscow, the second near Stalingrad ... Great-grandfather 30 April 45th near Berlin ...
              1. -2
                April 2 2020 09: 02
                Quote: pivnik
                stupidity ... the Germans in 41 reached Moscow - my ancestors were not for them,

                Is everything normal with logic? You do not interfere now, the civil conflict between the population of one country and the war on survival with a foreign enemy
                1. +2
                  April 2 2020 09: 41
                  Is it? Without the support of the Entente countries (and let's call a spade a spade - the occupiers), the white movement hardly lasted that long + they had nothing to give the masses, there was no ideology - except perhaps only the "white terror" (in fairness, say - the Reds have "terror" and was less, then not much) ... And now we will continue your thought ... - in the Second World War there was also a "fifth column" - according to your logic, we can draw a conclusion - "the Germans" just helped them, but why did the people not support them, although reached Moscow ...
                  1. 0
                    April 2 2020 09: 46
                    Quote: pivnik
                    And now let's continue your thought ... - in the Second World War there was also a "fifth column" - according to your logic, we can draw a conclusion - the "Germans" simply helped them, but why the people did not support them, although they reached Moscow ...

                    You have now expressed your thought. I’ll repeat to you once again that the Civil War and the wars between countries are different wars.
                    1. +1
                      April 2 2020 10: 01
                      In your words, there is only one prejudice and very little objective logic, and therefore I see no reason to continue our debate ... Let's just stay each with our opinion ...
                      1. +2
                        April 2 2020 10: 15
                        Quote: pivnik
                        There is only prejudice in your words

                        Sorry, but you are talking about yourself. For you everything is "white" and "black", but the world is not like that ...
                        Quote: pivnik
                        Let's just stay each with our opinion ...

                        Good. Health and 36,6 per thermometer
                      2. +1
                        April 2 2020 11: 41
                        You and your loved ones also do not get sick ... Now - this is probably the most important ...
                      3. +1
                        April 2 2020 13: 01
                        And here is such an interesting question. And what would happen if suddenly the white movement won? Where would the country go? It seems to me that it would be worse, in the struggle for power, the country would simply be drowned in blood, destroyed ... And the "bloody tyrant" would be against this background - just a childish prank ...
                      4. +3
                        April 2 2020 14: 22
                        Quote: pivnik
                        And what would happen if suddenly the white movement won?

                        We can assume the following:
                        1. They would have had to suppress the Kronstadt rebellion, the Tambov, Siberian, Ukrainian, and many other uprisings and rebellions.
                        2. Solve (probably by force of arms) issues of borders with Poland, Finland, Romania, the Baltic countries, the Caucasus, Central Asia, etc.
                        3. To solve the land issue, and in light of the fact that the peasants accepted only ONE version of this decision - I don’t even want to think about what it would result in.
                        This is all just a minimum program.
    2. +3
      April 2 2020 08: 31
      67
      WHITE TOGETHER with the interventionists waged war against their own people in much the same way as the Nazis later. Gangs, Basmachi and other nationalists also robbed and killed and made political justification for the killings and robberies.
      Most of the * knights of the white movement * served the Nazis, and this speaks of their political physiognomy more than any words.
      Today the situation has not changed, there are frankly racist countries with democratic regimes in Europe under the protectorate of the United States, and our liberal democrats faithfully serve them.
      1. -5
        April 2 2020 09: 08
        Quote: Vasily50
        WHITE TOGETHER with the invaders fought a war against their own people in much the same way as the Nazis later

        You're not right. You are mixing everything together. The first was the CIVIL CONFLICT within one state, where foreign formations fought on the side of BOTH warring parties. Want to argue? But the second is a conflict between two states, even two alliances of states, where "collaborators" and "traitors" took part on the side of BOTH warring parties, from the point of view of some, or "fighters for a bright future" from the point of view of others.
        But these are two different, essentially conflict
      2. 0
        April 2 2020 13: 24
        Vasily50 (Dmitry):Most of the * knights of the white movement * served the Nazis, and this speaks of their political physiognomy more than any words.

        It only says that you are not competent to put it mildly. Yes
        The data of special military records on the number of white armies belonging to the period of the most powerful heyday of the white movement, by May 1919, show that even in this period the number of combat troops of the regular white armies did not exceed 682,0 thousand souls.
        According to K. Aleksandrov, about 1941 million citizens of the former Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR carried out military service on the side of Germany in 1945-1,24. How many of them were what you call the "knights of the white movement"?
        According to the KGB of the USSR, up to 21 thousand white emigrants and their children fought with weapons in their hands against the USSR. According to the conclusions of the historian Aleksandrov, this is only 5% of the total number of Russian emigrants in Europe. and 0,017% of the total number of "Russian" collaborators.
        It seems from your post that most of the Russian emigration was on the side of Germany. However, in reality, the majority did not support Hitler’s aggression and refused to cooperate with the Reich. Most of the Russians fighting on the side of the Nazis were not emigrants, but citizens of the USSR, who joined the enemy while in captivity or in the occupied territories.
        1. 0
          April 2 2020 15: 24
          . Do not.
          The white movement was heterogeneous, * knights * were considered ONLY the former nobles, the rest - * gray cattle * and others that joined them.
          In total, from the territory of the SOVIET UNION, the Germans scrubbed themselves into policemen and other troops a little less than a million accomplices. This number includes the Baltic states, Westerners from Belarus and Ukraine.
          * The former * who served the Hitlerites as soon as they were captured, at once inscribed themselves either in the Volksdeutsche, then in the Georgian-Armenian-Azeri, but in anyone, just not to aggravate. Moreover, they did not recognize themselves as citizens of the SOVIET UNION.
          About a million * former *, Cossacks, and other offenders served the Chinese and Japanese in the Far East. They began to run away when they realized that they would soon have to be responsible for aiding. By September, about half a million remained, but they had families ......
          1. -1
            April 2 2020 18: 45
            Do not.

            No need. Do not - this is not an argument. Minus is much easier than justified to object.
            The total number of emigrants from Russia who immigrated in 1918-1924 as a result of the civil war, according to the Refugee Services of the League of Nations, amounted to 1 million people on November 1926, 2,252:
            1 million 194 thousand people, according to the estimates of the American Red Cross, were received by America, 958,5 thousand, according to the League of Nations, were received by Europe: about 200 thousand people were received by France; about 200 thousand people were taken by Germany; about 300 thousand - accepted by the Turkish Republic; there were 76 thousand of them in China, in Yugoslavia, Latvia, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria - about 40 thousand people, and Greece - 37 thousand people, including about 800 thousand inhabitants of the Polish and Baltic provinces that were part of the Russian Empire before the First World War war and then became part of the newly formed sovereign states. ("Data of the League of Nations refugee Service 1926" volume 2. Washington), (Total number of emigrants from Russia who immigrated in 1918-1924 as a result of the civil war according to the League of Nations refugee Service / p. 1437 )
            At the same time, the number of direct participants in the "white movement" and members of their families was estimated at 190 thousand people. The rest - nobles, entrepreneurs, intelligentsia, Cossacks, clergy, civil servants and civilians unrelated to them. ("Russia and its regions in the XX century: migration "/ Ed. by O. Glezer and P. Polyana. - M .: OGI, 2005. - S. 493-519)

            Most of the * knights of the white movement * served the Nazis, and this speaks of their political physiognomy more than any words.

            Most? belay
            According to the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, out of 100% of male emigrants capable of carrying arms aged 18 to 60 years old, in 1941-45:
            20% sympathized with the war of Germany against the USSR,
            5% openly supported the Nazis or fought against the USSR (21 thousand people.)
            60% chose a non-war strategy
            10% took a stand against the Hitler regime.
            , 5% of emigrants joined the Resistance movement on the side of European Communists. Most often it was Russian youth who grew up in the Balkans and in France, where leftist ideas were always strong.
            In the armed forces of France alone, more than 3000 white emigrants fought.
            About 6 thousand in the Resistance Movement of France, Belgium and Yugoslavia
            In the US armed forces in the battles against Nazism took part 5 thousand Cossacks-white emigrants.
            ("White emigration in the Second World War" / Under the editorship of L. Reshetnikov. - Moscow: RISS, 2012)
            In total, from the territory of the SOVIET UNION, the Germans scrubbed themselves into policemen and other troops a little less than a million accomplices.

            1,24 million a little less than a million? belay
            About a million * former *, Cossacks, and other offenders served the Chinese and Japanese in the Far East.

            A million more, a million less - what's the difference belay laughing
            Before the revolution, the number of the Russian colony in Manchuria was at least 200 thousand people, and by November 1926, taking into account 76 thousand "white" emigration - already 288 thousand people (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_emigration )("Data of the League of Nations refugee Service 1926 "volume 2. Washington), (Total number of emigrants from Russia who immigrated in 1918-1924 as a result of the civil war according to the League of Nations refugee Service / p. 1437)
            The white movement was heterogeneous, * knights * were considered ONLY the former nobles, the rest - * gray cattle * and others that joined them.

            Oh is it? But for example, the hero of this article, A. I. Denikin, who was called the "knight of the white movement" was of a peasant family
            I don’t want to participate in the debate anymore. Useless.
            be healthy
        2. +2
          April 2 2020 18: 35
          "the majority did not support Hitler's aggression." It is true: “I don’t talk to traitors to the Motherland” (Denikin), but Vicky Obolenskaya, and Kuzmina-Karavaeva. Who I remember now
    3. +1
      April 2 2020 19: 22
      Quote: svp67
      So, "when there is no agreement in friends," you can lose your homeland too ...

      And what else to expect from people who have united not "for something", but exclusively "against the Reds." And at the same time, each group had its own plans for post-war Russia in the event of a White victory.
      In short, in "The Elusive" the "unity" of the White movement was shown, albeit grotesquely, but on the whole true.
  2. +6
    April 2 2020 07: 40
    It didn’t work out by military methods ... but White didn’t have other methods ... he left.
  3. +1
    April 2 2020 08: 49
    That the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists, after the October Revolution unleashed a Civil War with the aim of capturing Russia, that the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists, who captured the USSR, were exactly the same, they all believed and believe that betrayal and collaboration — cooperation with the occupiers of their Motherland — is not a crime . All of them had only a manic passion to take the country away from the Bolshevik Communists and their supporters, but they did not have and DO NOT have ANYTHING and NOTHING useful for their country and people. All of them equally hated and hate both the Bolshevik Communists and their supporters, and each other. And all of them were mediocrity in hostilities.
    1. -3
      April 2 2020 09: 48
      Quote: tatra
      And all of them were mediocrity in hostilities.

      And how gifted were the "Bolshevik-Communists" in defending what they had won with such difficulty and blood? Where is the country of the USSR now?
      1. +2
        April 2 2020 09: 51
        That is exactly how the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists cowardly blamed the responsibility for unleashing the Civil War, so the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists cowardly blamed the responsibility for the destruction of the USSR.
        1. -1
          April 2 2020 09: 59
          Quote: tatra
          That is exactly how the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists cowardly blamed the responsibility for unleashing the Civil War on those

          That is, it was not they who dispersed the Constituent Assembly, of course these are anarchists ... and nothing that they acted in a coalition.
          Quote: tatra
          so the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists cowardly blamed those responsible for the destruction of the USSR.

          That is, you do not intend to admit your mistakes, someone is always to blame, but not you ... That is why we now have such a mess and go on ... And stop listing yourself to the "Bolshevik-Communists", you are an ordinary "opportunist", maybe "radish"
          1. +1
            April 2 2020 10: 06
            There is no need to cowardly get out and engage in flooding. Neither you, not one of the enemies of the Bolsheviks-Communists are able to prove how the Bolsheviks unleashed the armed Civil War, and how the Communists are to blame for the fact that YOU, their enemies, captured the USSR, divided it into YOUR anti-Soviet-Russophobic " independence ", imposed on the country and people YOURSELF in power, YOUR System, YOUR economy, YOUR ideology - anti-Soviet. For this I take my leave, you have proved that you are not capable of honest discussions about the history of our country.
            1. +2
              April 2 2020 10: 18
              Quote: tatra
              Here it is not necessary to get out cowardly and engage in flood.

              This is your fantasy
              Quote: tatra
              Neither you, nor one of the enemies of the Bolshevik Communists

              No, because I am not their enemy. I respect those "Bolsheviks" for their courage and pressure, but this does not prevent me from seeing by what methods and how they achieved their goals. But you, the current ones, are not. You are "big talkers" and that says it all
      2. +2
        April 2 2020 10: 42
        And how gifted were the "Bolshevik-Communists" in defending what they had won with such difficulty and blood? Where is the country of the USSR now?

        Clear. The destruction of the USSR in 1991 was to blame for the political figures of 1917-20. Well, it’s impossible to flatter our president so clearly, who announced that Lenin had planted a bomb under the country.
        1. +5
          April 2 2020 11: 05
          Quote: Aviator_
          The destruction of the USSR in 1991 was to blame for the political figures of 1917-20.

          No, then I will say more clearly. The communists of 1917-20, with their blood were able to seize power and create a great state, which the "politicians" of the 90s, who by some strange coincidence called themselves the same "communists", blabbed out, and not which they sold ... So, clearly and understandably
          1. 0
            April 2 2020 14: 22
            Well, this is another matter, otherwise I was really surprised - usually the arguments were always adequate, but then something went wrong.
        2. -1
          April 2 2020 12: 46
          On the territory of the USSR, all 100 years after the October Revolution, only two peoples live - Soviet and anti-Soviet, - regardless of nationalities, cardinally different in everything, including the fact that the Soviet people have "to do with" what they have done since the October Revolution , and has always been proud and proud of this, and the anti-Soviet people are always cowardly "not to blame" for what they did both under the rule of the Soviet people and after they took the country away from the Soviet people. But at the same time, the anti-Soviet people seriously believed and believes that they are more than the Soviet people worthy to own the country.
          1. 0
            April 2 2020 18: 04
            Actually, Stalin thought differently about this when in 1945 he proclaimed a toast to the RUSSIAN people
            1. -2
              April 2 2020 18: 09
              ONCE AGAIN, the people, including Russian, in the USSR are divided into Soviet and anti-Soviet. Including the fact that the Soviet Russian people defended their country from the united Europe that attacked it, led by Hitler, and the anti-Soviet Russian people ran to act as idiots before Hitler and the Nazis. And do you think Stalin would raise a toast to the Russian anti-Soviet people, to General Vlasov, or did he mean only the Russian Soviet people, at the head of which and with whom he defeated Hitler and the Nazis?
              1. 0
                April 3 2020 14: 39
                Tatra, let's clarify: TRAITORS EXISTED from biblical times (remember Judah). As long as humanity exists there will be so many patriots and traitors.
                He has already cited an example: Kuzmina-Karavaeva, she was an enemy of the Bolsheviks, but she was saving Soviet prisoners of war from a concentration camp, Archbishop Luka had a negative attitude towards the October Revolution, but Stalin was the head of the ambulance train.
                Do you think Stalin had a lot of time in November 1941? I think that ALL THE CPSU Central Committee since 1952 worked less than Stalin in the fall of 1941, but he found time to meet with the locum tenens of the patriarchal throne, Metropolitan Sergei. And Sergius appointed Patriarch Tikhon (an enemy of Soviet power) as his successor
                In addition to the traitors: Paulus was considered a traitor by the Nazis (there is evidence that one of the former fascists killed him) and William Peak despised him. In the former GDR and in the current FRG, Staufenberg is honored that Hitler wanted to blow up
          2. +2
            April 2 2020 20: 45
            Quote: tatra
            All 100 years after the October Revolution, only two peoples live on the territory of the USSR

            Sorry, but for us there is NO OTHER PEOPLE
        3. +4
          April 2 2020 14: 27
          Bolshevik communists did not die long before the destruction of the USSR.
          1. -3
            April 2 2020 15: 50
            There is such a concept, inaccessible to the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, as logic. And according to this logic, there would be what you wrote, then long before the "Liberator" of the enemies - the Bolshevik communists - Gorbachev, what happened during the anti-Soviet Perestroika and later.
        4. +1
          April 2 2020 18: 24
          "Lenin laid the bomb under the country" formally, but in fact the main culprit is L. D. Trotsky. Stalin and Dzerzhinsky in 1922 proposed a reasonable plan, but V. I. Lenin, already a sick man, yielded to Troitsky's pressure. However, this has already been discussed a lot.
          1. 0
            April 3 2020 14: 44
            Anti-Soviet propaganda is an excuse for CRIMINALS, and this is a crime, including the fact that those who blame the Bolsheviks-Communists for the dismemberment of Russia during the Civil War, and the dismemberment of the USSR into vicious anti-Soviet-Russophobic "independence", this justifies real criminals - separatists.
            And for such people, crime is not an exception, but the norm.
  4. -2
    April 2 2020 13: 55
    Quote: Stirbjorn
    Quote: svp67
    Read Babel's "First Horse", maybe then your "blinders" will subside ...
    Read Sholokhov's "Quiet Don". Where the Cossacks were engaged in outright robbery of all good, including the property of their own Cossack neighbors, who went to the Reds, while the Reds requisitioned what was needed for the front - primarily horses.

    Would Sholokhov, under the regime at that time, write something bad about the Reds? Not to be published to him never in the USSR.
    1. -1
      April 3 2020 04: 36
      Quote: Charlie
      Would Sholokhov, under the regime at that time, write something bad about the Reds? Not to be published to him never in the USSR.

      However, he wrote. And not only Sholokhov.
  5. 0
    April 2 2020 14: 15
    it was not necessary for the Red Army to take prisoners. it was not necessary. !!!!
  6. +2
    April 2 2020 14: 58
    They were looking for the perpetrators of the defeat and savior.

    This phrase needs an epigraph to the comments. 100 years have passed, and Civil continues on the Internet. The descendants of the workers, peasants and raznochintsy against each other. One side is aware of this, the other for some reason is sure that their ancestors must be someone more significant. At the same time, the great-grandfathers of almost all the arguing fought on one side.

    All these white "patriots" - generals fought not for Great Russia, but for power over it. After all, they were not stupid. They could not help but understand Hitler's plans. But too many of these white "heroes" worked for the Nazis just to regain power.
    "Great Russia was created by the Bolsheviks, and this reconciles me to them." Here are the words of a patriot. They were written by one of the architects of February Shulgin, who accepted Nikolai's abdication.

    As for this article, not one of her characters is worth my grandfather’s worn overcoat, in which he honorably passed World War I and Civil.
  7. 0
    April 2 2020 17: 54
    "Makhno's activities in the rear of Makhno's detachments were restrained" actually, then Makhno was considered an "ally" of the Bolsheviks. Around that time, he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner, but how reliable this is is a moot point.
  8. 0
    April 2 2020 18: 01
    Quote: Seeker
    Bolshevik communists did not die long before the destruction of the USSR.

    I agree with you. In my childhood I had a neighbor, a front-line soldier, and when he drank he shouted: "The Bolsheviks at the front were killed, and these are ALL traitors. Give me a machine gun, I will shoot them."
  9. 0
    April 2 2020 19: 21
    "England offered to stop the nervous struggle and, through her mediation, begin negotiations with the Bolsheviks", to be honest, I DIDN'T KNOW about this.
  10. 0
    April 3 2020 11: 02
    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    Quote: Charlie
    Would Sholokhov, under the regime at that time, write something bad about the Reds? Not to be published to him never in the USSR.

    However, he wrote. And not only Sholokhov.

    Where did he not speak very well of the Reds there? Or even a word about the "red terror" wrote? In Virgin Land Upturned? Or in "Quiet Don"? And where is "not only Sholokhov" here?
    1. 0
      April 3 2020 17: 49
      Quote: Charlie
      Where is he not very good about the Reds?

      It happened that he spoke very badly. In "Quiet Don" and "Virgin Land Upturned". About the red terror and looting. Including scenes worthy of a horror movie.
      Quote: Charlie
      And where is "not only Sholokhov"

      Moreover, that "not very good" or even "very bad" about the Reds was not the only one who wrote. And not only in fiction.

      But from the White Guards in their memoirs, NOBODY even REMEMBERED about the so-called. "decossackization". As if he hadn't been there at all. Why?
      1. 0
        April 4 2020 00: 00
        Why none of the whites wrote about the punitive expeditions against the civilian population, it would be good to ask them, and not me. Maybe with the help of clairvoyants? Just kidding. And where is there in "Quiet Don" about the red terror and looting? With scenes worthy of a horror movie
        1. 0
          April 4 2020 06: 11
          1. “Without getting into the boots, Ivan Alekseevich dressed, ran to Shtokman.
          - What we sent nona - shot in Veshki! I thought they would give them a prison, but so what ... "

          2. “- You say there are no executions?” And where were seven? - shouted from the back rows.
          “I will not say, comrades, that there are no executions.” "We shot and will shoot the enemies of Soviet power, everyone who decides to impose landowner power on us."

          3. “... they have a commissioner with a detachment, Malkin's surname. Well, what does he, in fairness, treat people? Here I will tell at once. He collects old people from the farms, leads them to brushwood, takes out their souls from them, teles them beforehand and does not order their relatives to bury them. ”

          4. “This grandfather, for sin, has a beard, wonderfully, like a millet broom. And they shot him only because his beard was worn off and at a dashing hour he caught Malkin’s eyes. ”

          Plus, the chopping down with sabers of Chernetsov and other captured officers, the shooting of Kalmykov, Pyotr Melekhov, grandfather Grishaki ...

          Next:

          5 “In the eighteenth year, our detachment had such order and discipline that it would be worse, but nowhere. "Not a detachment of the Red Guard, but a fragment of the Makhnovist gang, honestly!"

          6. “Titok showed up at the apartment at night, brings packs into the hut. He shook them and poured eight severed legs onto the floor…. He thawed them on the stove and began to rip off his boots from his feet. Rip open the seam on the bootleg with a saber, pull it off. He took his bare feet and buried them in a stack of straw. "Buried," he says.

          It can be called: "Not very well responded"?
          1. 0
            April 4 2020 12: 25
            Sahar Medovich, it is clear that Sholokhov is not indifferent to you. He really smoothed a few more.
            It is known that Yezhov (the goose is still the same)) said to Sholokhov: "Misha, and you are the counter"
            Have you seen the latest edition of The Quiet Don? They showed me, but I did not have time to compare the text.
            1. 0
              April 4 2020 14: 01
              vladcub, I read Sholokhov 25-30 years ago. The latest edition is when?
              1. 0
                April 4 2020 14: 46
                Have you heard that the drafts of The Quiet Don have been found? They were published in 2017.
                I just looked through the beginning and that's it. It would be nice to compare publications. I know from other people's words that in the draft version, the line: Aksinia-Melekhov turned out worse. I heard on TV that pieces in italics are highlighted, which are not included in subsequent editions. But whether it is so or not, I do not know. Where leafing there did not see italics

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"