Vaccinations are the “horse” of Russian medicine: who opposes them and why


Vaccination against a number of diseases is one of the most important components of the Russian health care system. But quite often mass vaccinations are also met with skepticism on the part of compatriots.


Until now, our country has the most developed vaccination system in the world inherited from the Soviet Union. It is the presence of the vaccination system, according to many experts, that allows you to keep the situation for most infectious and dangerous diseases under special control.

At one time, it was the USSR that became the first country in the world to defeat polio (thanks to the Nikolai Chumakov vaccine), and the Anatoly Smorodintsev vaccine reduced the incidence of measles in the Soviet Union by 650 (!) Times. But if we talk about the roots of the vaccination system, then they go back to the pre-revolutionary era: the first who was vaccinated against smallpox in our country was Empress Catherine II.

Today, the national calendar of preventive vaccinations that have become the ridge of Russian medicine includes diseases such as tuberculosis, viral hepatitis B, pneumococcal infection, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, hemophilic infection, measles, rubella, and mumps. Vaccinations can also be carried out against a number of other diseases, such as cholera, plague, tularemia, chickenpox, tick-borne viral encephalitis, etc.

However, there is a powerful anti-vaccination movement, which has two main sources in our country. The first is the religious beliefs of some believing citizens, both representatives of various sects and some Orthodox. Moreover, the official position of the Russian Orthodox Church is to support the efforts of the healthcare system to prevent the spread of dangerous diseases.

The second source of the anti-vaccination movement is the critical views on vaccination that have spread from the West: supposedly it is not able to prevent the incidence of disease, it is dangerous by numerous side effects, and indeed it is the result of a collusion of pharmaceutical companies and the state.

Opponents of vaccinations believe that in modern conditions the level of development and body hygiene, and methods of treating diseases allows not to vaccinate. Moreover, many diseases that are vaccinated against are successfully treated today and no longer pose the same danger as before.

Some proponents of anti-vaccination are convinced that vaccines are harmful to health and appeal to human rights, emphasizing that it is up to each person to decide whether to vaccinate him and his minor children. Finally, particularly zealous advocates of conspiracy theories argue that they vaccinate people intentionally, almost with the goal of managing their health and, conversely, infecting them.

However, what happens in case of refusal of vaccinations is evidenced by numerous examples. So, in the early 2000s, in the north of Nigeria, under the influence of local religious leaders, a poliovirus vaccine was boycotted, supported by regional authorities. As a result, Nigeria turned into an “exporter” of poliomyelitis: they began to become infected in neighboring countries, where there was practically no disease before, and as a result it turned out that it was the northern states of Nigeria that were the focus of the disease. By 2006, more than half of all polio cases worldwide were in Nigeria.

But one should not think that only African or Asian countries are susceptible to the mass rejection of vaccinations and the spread of diseases associated with it. In the United States, Indiana in 2005, there was a very serious outbreak of measles. The reason is the same - the mass refusal of the population to vaccinate under the influence of rumors and speculation.

The World Health Organization rejects the arguments of opponents of vaccination, and in 2019, WHO announced skepticism about vaccination as one of the 10 main threats to human health on a global scale. In most countries of the world, health systems are focused on the further development of vaccination, the development of new vaccines that could protect people from becoming infected with dangerous diseases.

The coronavirus pandemic has shown what serious problems the spread of a disease can lead to, even in our time, all of humanity. With all the necessary observance of human rights and freedoms, the health of each of us cannot be regarded only as a private matter, since there is always the possibility of infection of others due to skepticism about vaccination, treatment, other medical and sanitary measures.
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  1. Svarog April 1 2020 11: 41 New
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    Vaccinations are right and necessary. The only question is which manufacturer ... now we often have vaccinations that are foreign .. and there is doubt about what they can palm off on us under the guise of vaccinations .. and the flu shots are not effective, I judge by myself, I never guessed which stamp will walk ..
    1. Kalmar April 1 2020 11: 45 New
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      Quote: Svarog
      and there is doubt, but what can they palm off on us under the guise of vaccination

      In theory, this applies to any import. Only vaccines (in theory) are kept stricter.

      In general, everything is quite prosaic: without serious epidemics (thanks to vaccination), people relaxed and ceased to regard infections as a threat.
      1. mat-vey April 1 2020 11: 50 New
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        Quote: Kalmar
        In general, everything is quite prosaic: without serious epidemics (thanks to vaccination), people relaxed and ceased to regard infections as a threat.

        Perhaps that is why in some regions the authorities stopped the planned vaccination .. although there are places where they sent tuberculosis to their homes ...
      2. knn54 April 1 2020 12: 00 New
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        The West made it a rule to TEST its developments on children, in particular, Ukraine ...
        And why is this "vaccination" (?) Their pharmacists will not tell the truth.
        No government service is able to verify which bookmarks are included in imported vaccines other than those declared.
        1. Svarog April 1 2020 12: 03 New
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          Quote: knn54
          No government service is able to verify what “surprises” are inherent in imported vaccines, in addition to the declared ones.

          Here I am about the same thing .. now there is no trust, to anyone, and especially to Western suppliers .. yes, and ours are not particularly burdened with responsibility now ..
        2. Ilya-spb April 1 2020 12: 13 New
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          You don’t have to say that.

          Public services have the entire arsenal for verification and qualified personnel.
          1. Svarog April 1 2020 13: 48 New
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            Quote: Ilya-spb
            Public services have the entire arsenal for verification and qualified personnel.

            And the arsenal is both frames and desire to earn..
          2. Normal ok April 1 2020 15: 47 New
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            You forget that all super-profitable business lines (and pharmaceuticals also apply to them) are covered by serious officials. Therefore, businessmen from pharmaceuticals are doing lawlessness, because no one will touch them.
      3. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 12: 54 New
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        Quote: Kalmar
        only vaccines (in theory) are kept stricter.

        About 15 years ago there was a story on the news where the head of the clinic was detained because she shoved the introduction of vaccinations for children for 50 thousand euros. Moreover, the vaccine was without certificates. Those. a French pharmaceutical company has paid for illegal child vaccine trials. And here is the question - if they paid "higher" and more, hardly anyone heard about this story.
        Further, about the "Western" tales of side effects - Around the same time, about 10-15 years ago there was a story where a child became ill with bone tuberculosis as a result of BCG and became disabled. The regional Ministry of Health immediately disowned - "Vaccination has nothing to do with it!" A woman through the Scientific Research Institute of Pulmanology in St. Petersburg proved that the vaccine is guilty. As a result, through the court she won 350 tr. When a journalist asked her if she was satisfied with the amount, she said exhaustively that she had already spent more on treatment. As I recently wrote, the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation on its website indicates a decrease in the number of cases of tuberculosis in 2019 compared to the 18th by 15%, despite the fact that the number of refuseniks is growing from year to year. From the point of view of mathematics, the conclusions are not in favor of BCG.
        According to DTP, there are the most complications, and it is from the third vaccine. I personally know the family where the child became a vegetable after her. Naturally, the hospital disowned. Doctors themselves also recognize this.
        But for some reason, there are no statistics of complications anywhere in the public domain. Maybe this gives rise to anti-vaccination?
        I am not globally opposed to vaccinations, there are normal ones, but before the introduction, a study should be carried out for the absence of contraindications. In the 21st century we live tea, and we instill it on the principle of herdness.
        P.S. I have 5 children, only one is vaccinated, and only she is allergic. The rest are completely vaccinated, and completely healthy. hi
        1. astepanov April 1 2020 13: 25 New
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          That complications may be is a fact that no one denies. But few suffer, and hundreds of thousands are saved. As for the anti-vaccination, most of them will be recognized in a personal conversation: let them be vaccinated, then there will be no carriers of the infection, and my children and I will be safe from the infection and from complications. In general, they want to enter paradise on someone else's hump. But when there are many such clever people, their tactics do not work.
          1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 13: 55 New
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            Quote: astepanov
            a fact that no one denies.

            Not only do they deny, but they also do not answer. After a severe complication, the parents are left alone with the disabled child. Here it is necessary to depart from this, advocating universal vaccination.
        2. Kalmar April 1 2020 13: 49 New
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          Quote: Ingvar 72
          About 15 years ago there was a story on the news where the head of the clinic was detained because she shoved the introduction of vaccinations for children for 50 thousand euros. Moreover, the vaccine was without certificates.

          Do not you think that this speaks of organizational problems, and not the problems of vaccination as such? A completely similar situation can arise with medicines, food, industrial equipment - yes with anything!

          They’ve already commented on the complications - yes, unfortunately, they can’t do without them at the current level of development of medicine. And this applies to almost all medical procedures: they say that even banal withdrawal of blood from a finger in certain cases can provoke gangrene. Give up medicine in general?

          Quote: Ingvar 72
          P.S. I have 5 children, only one is vaccinated, and only she is allergic. The rest are completely vaccinated, and completely healthy.

          I hope they will be healthy in the future. But natural selection, unfortunately, looks at our hopes and aspirations absolutely indifferent.
          1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 13: 53 New
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            Quote: Kalmar
            Do not you think that this speaks of organizational problems, and not the problems of vaccination as such?

            So you need to decide, and not hide the statistics of complications and push back from them! And then doctors like to receive bonuses for fulfilling the norm according to the vaccination calendar, but there is no answer.
            Quote: Kalmar
            I hope they will be healthy in the future

            I believe that they will. hi
            1. Kalmar April 1 2020 14: 10 New
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              Quote: Ingvar 72
              So you need to decide, and not hide the statistics of complications and push back from them!

              Well, who argues. But to refuse medicine because of the presence of some problems in it is strange. In grocery stores, you can also run into delinquency and fake, but you still go there for groceries, don’t you?

              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Doctors like to receive bonuses for fulfilling the norm on the vaccination calendar, but there is no responsibility

              Because most of these consequences cannot be predicted at the current level of diagnosis. It is expected that the doctor does not really want to answer for things that, in principle, he can not influence. And yes, for the epidemic, too, then they ask the doctors: they did not foresee, did not warn, ay-ay-ay. In general, either chiseled peaks or another chair.
              1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 13 New
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                Quote: Kalmar
                In grocery stores, you can also run into delinquency and fake, but you still go there for groceries, don’t you?

                Yes, but I look at the date. Here they offer me to take a word that the product is fresh. This is an analogy.
                1. Kalmar April 1 2020 14: 28 New
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                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Yes, but I look at the date. Here they offer me to take a word that the product is fresh. This is an analogy.

                  The vaccine also has a date. Ask - they will show you. If you can also see by date that:
                  1. production technology was not violated;
                  2. storage / transportation conditions were observed;
                  3. the composition corresponds to the declared;
                  4. none of the ingredients (or combinations thereof) will cause you allergies and other unpleasant consequences,

                  then with such an all-pervasive gaze one can not be afraid of vaccines))
                  1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 30 New
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                    Quote: Kalmar
                    4. none of the ingredients (or combinations thereof) will cause you allergies and other unpleasant consequences,

                    I have the opposite information.
        3. qQQQ April 3 2020 22: 07 New
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          Quote: Ingvar 72
          I have 5 children, only one is vaccinated, and only she is allergic. The rest are completely vaccinated, and completely healthy.

          For good, all unvaccinated people are a direct threat to the health of others, I’m not talking about my own (I suppose that he or their parents don’t give a damn). After all, after the collapse of the USSR, long-forgotten diseases returned several years ago, information about an outbreak of smallpox in Central Asia slipped through, and how many visitors we have from those places, no one really knows, and even less so.
    2. Alena Frolovna April 1 2020 11: 52 New
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      I recalled a nursery rhyme.

      Diphtheria, scarlet fever
      Measles, rubella, whooping cough, mumps,
      Smallpox, polio -
      Talking to you about something?

      And also tuberculosis,
      So that he is frozen in the forest !!!
      Meningitis and hepatitis -
      All the terrible says!

      Let's not forget about chickenpox -
      The whole bunch of diseases for people
      Give us like spices
      HARMFUL INFECTIONS!

      How to avoid diseases?
      After all, do not pinch them in a fist!
      In healing, brethren,
      VACCINATION will help.

      I remember that in 1980 the world got rid of smallpox and small children were no longer given these vaccinations. But without fail after some time in schools, kindergartens, at work they vaccinated and it seemed that neither plague, nor cholera, or anything else would ever touch us. The current residents of Russia do not remember the 70th year of the last century. And you need to remember. Then there was an epidemic of cholera. Both the scope of it and the deaths from it were worse than the present. Now a patient appears in the city - already screams about him, and then the Volga region, Central Russia, Crimea, there were hundreds and hundreds of victims. People were dying. With cholera, life was worse. But no one reported an epidemic. Nothing - survived. And now, by the grace of God, we will not perish. For many, these circumstances will be sobering and will help get rid of security.

      The 20th century ended and ... many infections began to return, but already altered.

      1. Blacksmith 55 April 1 2020 12: 03 New
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        And there’s a song too.
        First grade vaccination
        You have heard it is us
        ............
        Why did I stand against the wall?
        My knees are trembling.
      2. Aviator_ April 1 2020 12: 16 New
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        And now, by the grace of God, we will not perish.

        Well, the Scripture says, "Don’t mention the name of God in vain." And further. One of the sins that seek revenge is excessive trust in God's mercy.
        And anti-vaccination hysteria in the USSR began in the late 80s, just before the destruction of the country.
      3. Amateur April 1 2020 12: 37 New
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        The current residents of Russia do not remember the 70th year of the last century. And you need to remember. Then there was an epidemic of cholera.

        Cholera in Odessa. Resorts in a panic left the hospitable city. The roofs of the cars are jam-packed, the compartments are crowded, and it became quiet in the city: cholera in Odessa ... The restaurant is free: “Come in, we recommend ...” In the shops, a healthy fuss starts from your appearance. In the tram, you could give way to a woman without fear that a quick competitor would rush at him right away. Cholera in Odessa! .. The city became so clean that you could lie on the pavement. ... And the analyzes, how they bring together ... Of course, cholera was quickly eliminated, but the good that brought cholera with itself could remain. What is in people, but manifests itself in difficult times (M. Zhvanetsky)
      4. Xnumx vis April 1 2020 14: 01 New
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        Quote: Alena Frolovna
        The current residents of Russia do not remember the 70th year of the last century. And you need to remember. Then there was an epidemic of cholera.

        Then they whirled in the corners ... I remember my parents in the kitchen whispered in a whisper about an outbreak of cholera in Kherson, Nikolaev, Odessa ... They made me drink boiled water ... I was forbidden to go to the sea (Sevastopol, summer.) ... That's why I remembered ... .
        1. nikvic46 April 1 2020 17: 59 New
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          Yuri. It's one thing to whisper in the corners. Another thing is when you are poured into the ears of the danger of an epidemic from morning till night. I choose the first.
          1. Xnumx vis April 1 2020 19: 24 New
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            You know, it seems to me that not warning people about the danger is criminal ... It is clear that not everything should be told ... I am sure not everything is brought to us ... But we can analyze .... In our city, the streets are processed ... Cars are coming and watering the streets ... There is a smell of some chemistry .. https://vk.com/sevastopol_severnaya?z=video468828293_456239035%2F6b1e717e422e65c2bf%2Fpl_wall_-143568850 What does this mean ...
            1. nikvic46 April 2 2020 06: 16 New
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              Yuri. Health to you. Whoever handled my street. It is watered only after rain.
    3. Ilya-spb April 1 2020 12: 10 New
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      Support!

      Refusing vaccinations is a very stupid idea.

      I do not understand how it is possible for religious reasons (and this happens) to refuse vaccinations against tetanus, measles and other dangerous diseases.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. Mordvin 3 April 1 2020 12: 15 New
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      Quote: Svarog
      Vaccinations are right and necessary.

      And I am against vaccinations.
      1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 12: 57 New
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        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        And I am against vaccinations.

        So do I. drinks For they prick everyone, and everything. And without any subsequent liability. hi
        1. Sklendarka April 1 2020 14: 33 New
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          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          And I am against vaccinations.

          So do I. drinks For they prick everyone, and everything. And without any subsequent liability. hi

          Sorry, but you (in Russia) do not need a vaccination when receiving a medical certificate for receiving a vaccine?
          1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 35 New
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            No vaccinations are needed for B \ U, I don’t know about the army now, when I served, they didn’t. At least in our part.
            1. Sklendarka April 1 2020 14: 54 New
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              Quote: Ingvar 72
              No vaccinations are needed for B \ U, I don’t know about the army now, when I served, they didn’t. At least in our part.

              We have in Belarus once every 10 years it’s supposed (from tetanus and something else)
      2. Svarog April 1 2020 13: 39 New
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        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Svarog
        Vaccinations are right and necessary.

        And I am against vaccinations.

        So this is the rare case when our opinions did not coincide. hi I believe that vaccinations saved the population from a large number of bad diseases .. But as I wrote above, trust in manufacturers is needed, but now it is not.
        1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 13: 57 New
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          Quote: Svarog
          But as I wrote above, trust in manufacturers is needed, but now it is not.

          And the responsibility of manufacturers for the side effects of vaccinations. This can solve the anti-vaccination attitude in society at once. hi
    5. I agree. The author did not indicate the third reason for refusing vaccination - the dubious quality of vaccinations and the consequences after those. Every now and then flicker articles and reports that somewhere the child was barely saved, or even fatal.
      1. unaha April 1 2020 13: 40 New
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        In this case, it is incorrect to talk about refusal - we give all vaccinations to children, but not in the general flow. You need to look and what the vaccine is, the condition of the child at the moment, the tolerance of the components (for example, cow protein). And prepare a few days before vaccination with at least an anti-allergic course.
      2. Polymer April 2 2020 19: 52 New
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        angry
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        questionable quality of vaccinations and consequences after those. Every now and then flicker articles and reports that somewhere the child was barely saved, or even fatal.

        At the beginning of the century, in several regions in Kazakhstan, children died from BCG. People, of course, rebelled and refused to vaccinate children. Then it turned out that they had bought a batch of some kind of "left" vaccine. Then everything somehow settled down slowly. But still vaccines are thoughtfully cautious. Neither my nor my relatives had children of that age at that time, but it is easy to imagine the feelings of parents who are not ready to risk their children. So the reasons for refuseniks can be different.
        I myself have been vaccinated, and the children, too, basically I have both hands for vaccinations, but such cases ... angry
    6. bandabas April 1 2020 13: 47 New
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      The meaning is and is needed against tetanus and the like. Against mutating, no.
    7. Wolverine April 1 2020 15: 56 New
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      Quote: Svarog
      Vaccinations are right and necessary. The only question is which manufacturer ... now we often have vaccinations that are foreign .. and there is doubt about what they can palm off on us under the guise of vaccinations .. and the flu shots are not effective, I judge by myself, I never guessed which stamp will walk ..

      Vaccination strongly affects the immunity of especially babies and should only be domestic, tested, the composition is transparent and certified. You can’t vaccinate if there is no need, many diseases have been defeated for a long time, and most importantly, only a person should decide whether to vaccinate.
      1. qQQQ April 3 2020 22: 14 New
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        Quote: Wolverine
        most importantly, only a person should decide to be vaccinated or not.

        If all the unvaccinated could exist separately from the vaccinated, then I agree, but this is not possible, since people without vaccination pose a direct threat to the rest, so that it will not work out for themselves.
        1. Wolverine April 6 2020 10: 54 New
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          Quote: qqqq
          Quote: Wolverine
          most importantly, only a person should decide to be vaccinated or not.

          If all the unvaccinated could exist separately from the vaccinated, then I agree, but this is not possible, since people without vaccination pose a direct threat to the rest, so that it will not work out for themselves.


          The threat is posed by those who develop these viruses as a means of managing global processes for the sake of a handful of nonhumans who are trying to subjugate the whole world in spite of the millions of victims. At this stage, vaccination can serve not as a means of protection, but rather as a means of infection, so you want to die in the forefront of the flag in your hands.
          1. qQQQ April 6 2020 12: 06 New
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            Quote: Wolverine
            a thunderstorm is presented by those who develop these viruses as a means of managing global processes for the sake of a handful of nonhumans who are trying to subjugate the whole world to themselves despite multimillion-dollar victims

            Another conspiracy theory, and the fact that thanks to vaccinations, humanity has significantly increased life expectancy, does not count. You just need to take vaccines responsibly, approach completely healthy, observe a gentle regimen after, etc. and everything will be fine, contrary to all enemies of the human race.
  2. I
    I April 1 2020 11: 53 New
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    Many people stop vaccinating their children due to severe tolerance. After all, for good, vaccines should first be given in a mini dose to find out the reaction of the body of a particular person (especially a child). Naturally, nobody does this for us. But the result can even be fatal. I'm not talking about weakening the body.
    It may be small things nationwide and the result is worth the sacrifice. But on a family scale, the possibility of such a result is annoying.
    1. Ovrag April 1 2020 11: 59 New
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      All right. Vaccination should be reasonable (both from the side of the vaccinee, and from the epidemiological situation).
  3. novel66 April 1 2020 11: 55 New
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    who opposes them and why
    - only very stupid people! due to their own stupidity
  4. Ovrag April 1 2020 11: 57 New
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    Vaccinations are a really useful thing. But it’s stupid to deny the complications and side effects that most vaccines have. Therefore, any vaccination should be a decision based on it. Proceed directly from the health and immune system of the vaccinated and epidemiological situation in the region. Mindlessly vaccinating against anything and everything, the same dangerous path.
    1. AU Ivanov. April 1 2020 12: 09 New
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      A side stream for society from a voluntary approach to vaccination is much worse.
      1. Ovrag April 1 2020 14: 30 New
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        You will tell this personally to the parents of the child who will have this side effect. It is very easy to talk about such things without personally dealing with them.
        1. AU Ivanov. April 1 2020 14: 31 New
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          The interests of society are higher than the interests of the individual.
          1. Ovrag April 1 2020 14: 36 New
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            I already wrote above.
            Yes, and the individual to the individual - discord. Your son. And the son of Sechin. These are very different individuals. In one case, society will be higher. And in the other way around. Therefore, it can endlessly repeat all this.
            But the essence is the same. Mindless vaccinations. It’s like massive appendicitis excision, only excision. And most importantly, the rules of medicine - do no harm. And do not create it is unknown that.
            In fact, work should be done to track the epidemiological situation in the regions. Before vaccination, children should be checked for the whole complex of factors. Etc. But obviously, nobody will do this here. Here they can’t fix banal quarantine.
  5. Blacksmith 55 April 1 2020 11: 58 New
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    I know that measles vaccination is not obligatory in Germany, in any case they cannot be forced to. However, in recent years, cases of the disease have become more frequent. Based on this, all kindergartens and schools do not accept children, without a mark in the medical file.
    There can be complications from vaccinating any disease, but this is a miserable one, however many parents try not to carry it out.
    1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 06 New
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      Quote: smith 55
      in Germany measles vaccination is not necessary, in any case they cannot be forced to.

      My wife is a pediatrician. Work experience since 1978. It is impossible to vaccinate (in Russia) without parental consent. The eldest grandson is fully vaccinated according to his age - 6 years. The day before yesterday the second was born, and will also be vaccinated. Doesn’t the grandmother wish the grandchildren bad luck by “vaccinating” them?
      1. I
        I April 1 2020 12: 14 New
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        A large family lives in our neighborhood. They also vaccinated children until one boy nearly died from complications from vaccination.
        1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 17 New
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          Quote: it's me
          A large family lives in our neighborhood. They also vaccinated children until one boy nearly died from complications from vaccination.

          What follows from this? Refuse vaccinations? They refused in Ukraine, measles mows there, even in our Rostov Region they got excited.
          1. I
            I April 1 2020 12: 22 New
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            ,, What follows from this ?,

            When touches your grandchildren, then ask yourself this question. In the meantime, I just wrote the information.
            1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 24 New
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              Quote: it's me
              ,, What follows from this ?,

              When touches your grandchildren, then ask yourself this question. In the meantime, I just wrote the information.

              And when one of your unvaccinated relatives dies of an infection, how will your opinion change?
              1. I
                I April 1 2020 12: 42 New
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                ,, And when one of your unvaccinated relatives dies of an infection, how will your opinion change ?,

                Thanks to the sacrifice of your wife and the vaccination of the grandchildren, the infection will not spread. laughing
                1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 53 New
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                  Quote: it's me
                  Thanks to the sacrifice of your wife and the vaccination of the grandchildren, the infection will not spread.

                  And from yours?
                  1. I
                    I April 1 2020 13: 19 New
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                    Well, you're vaccinated. You have nothing to fear
                    1. major147 April 1 2020 13: 24 New
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                      Quote: it's me
                      Well, you're vaccinated. You have nothing to fear

                      My hut is not on the edge. I worry about other people.
                      1. I
                        I April 1 2020 13: 28 New
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                        And my relatives are closer than the rest of humanity
                      2. major147 April 1 2020 13: 30 New
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                        When you spit on humanity, it is unlikely to notice it, but when humanity spits on you .....
                      3. I
                        I April 1 2020 13: 35 New
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                        Not at all scary laughing
                      4. major147 April 1 2020 13: 36 New
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                        Quote: it's me
                        Not at all scary laughing

                        Wish you luck...
                      5. I
                        I April 1 2020 13: 42 New
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                        You will need it more.
                      6. major147 April 1 2020 13: 43 New
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                        Quote: it's me
                        You will need it more.

                        Time will tell.....
                      7. I
                        I April 1 2020 13: 53 New
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                        What will show? Vaccination side effects on your grandchildren? So you, as I understand it, do not care about them. The main thing is to show your imaginary dignity and concern for humanity. Are you not a communist by chance? And then everything will fall into place. These imperfections are ready for the sake of an illusory, bright future, to kill millions.
                      8. major147 April 1 2020 14: 02 New
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                        Quote: it's me
                        Are you not a communist by chance?

                        Forced to disappoint you - no. Even a turn. But .... Why do you consider yourself smarter than all of humanity with its centuries-old experience. After all, it was not from a good life that mankind came to the need for vaccinations. If they weren’t, except for the “crown” today, smallpox, measles, tetanus and other “charms” would mow humanity. And today you are not ill with these “charms” only thanks to humanity with its vaccinations. Over there, “VNA” refused vaccinations. Google about measles and stuff in Ukraine. I think you will learn a lot of interesting things.
                      9. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 06 New
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                        Quote: major147
                        today, smallpox, measles, tetanus and other "charms" would be mowed by humanity

                        I have to upset you, a lot of the diseases you listed are spreading due to unsanitary conditions in everyday life. Now life is much more sanitary than 100 years ago. It is almost impossible to get typhus right now, without any vaccinations.
                      10. major147 April 1 2020 14: 07 New
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                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Now life is much more sanitary than 100 years ago.

                        Tell the measles patient ...
                      11. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 17 New
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                        Quote: major147
                        Tell the measles patient ...

                        Last year, the Samara region was quarantined for measles. Four (XNUMX) people in s. Sancheleevo. All gypsies. And legends go about the cleanliness of gypsies! laughing
                      12. major147 April 1 2020 14: 20 New
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                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Quote: major147
                        Tell the measles patient ...

                        Last year, the Samara region was quarantined for measles. Four (XNUMX) people in s. Sancheleevo. All gypsies. And legends go about the cleanliness of gypsies! laughing

                        And they were unlikely to have been vaccinated; legends also go about law-abiding Roma!
                      13. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 23 New
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                        Here you are right, but most likely the stars came together here - they are not vaccinated, and unsanitary conditions. request
                      14. major147 April 1 2020 14: 25 New
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                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Here you are right, but most likely the stars came together here - they are not vaccinated, and unsanitary conditions. request

                        Why don’t I worry at all for them repeat
                        Forced to interrupt our argument, because you need to take the dog to the clinic hi
                      15. AU Ivanov. April 1 2020 14: 43 New
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                        Measles does not belong to unsanitary conditions. This is one of the most contagious viral infections - six times more contagious than the crown. One person, on average, infects another 12. Dysentery, hepatitis A, and cholera are unsanitary conditions. Measles, rubella, flu, chickenpox - no.
          2. Matroskin April 1 2020 17: 15 New
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            “Thus, it is possible to establish that in the groups of provinces less provided with medical care, increased mortality rates are observed. In 4 provinces, in which on average there were 19,9 thousand inhabitants per doctor, the mortality rate was 33,1. In the same provinces, where there were 8 thousand inhabitants per doctor, the mortality rate was 4,1.

            According to data published by the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR [34], the number of doctors (including dentists) in the USSR at the end of 1955 was 334 thousand people, the number of hospital beds reached 1 290 thousand, pure places in permanent nurseries - 906 thousand [35] ].

            The following data are also very indicative: “In 1913, there were only 15 medical faculties in our country that graduated 1500 doctors annually. Now (1955 - A. R.) there are 84 medical institutes in the USSR, their annual graduation is equal to approximately the total number of doctors who were in Russia in 1913 ”[36]." Http://istmat.info/node/81

            And allow yourself the trouble to substantiate the numbers of millions killed by the Communists. Where? When? Under what circumstances?
  6. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 02 New
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    Quote: major147
    I worry about other people.

    Well, based on your logic, those at risk are those who have not been vaccinated. Are vaccinated people protected? wink This is their conscious choice, so don’t worry. hi
  7. major147 April 1 2020 14: 06 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: major147
    I worry about other people.

    Well, based on your logic, those at risk are those who have not been vaccinated. Are vaccinated people protected? wink This is their conscious choice, so don’t worry. hi

    Some people cannot be vaccinated for a certain period of time for medical reasons (people are ill) or for other reasons beyond their control. So they will suffer innocently because of anti-vaccination.
  8. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 07 New
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    Quote: major147
    So they will suffer innocently because of anti-vaccination.

    There are facts of such infections?
  9. major147 April 1 2020 14: 09 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: major147
    So they will suffer innocently because of anti-vaccination.

    There are facts of such infections?

    Of course there is, or do you reject the very possibility?
  10. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 15 New
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    Quote: major147
    Of course have

    I would like to look at the applicants.
  11. major147 April 1 2020 14: 17 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: major147
    Of course have

    I would like to look at the applicants.

    You wanted to say "precedents"? I do not think that there are people who want to become "applicants."
    You with addresses and surnames? But you don’t believe it?
  12. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 32 New
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    Quote: major147
    You with addresses and surnames?

    Surely there should be medical documents. Official medicine for vaccinations, and therefore immediately would use such a trump card against anti-vaccination.
  13. major147 April 1 2020 17: 48 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Surely there should be medical documents.

    I could spend time and get them from my wife’s computer (she’s a local pediatrician). But where is the guarantee that the data obtained by me on the plot of my wife will not be declared "not reliable"?
  14. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 17: 54 New
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    If you give an honest word that the documents are reliable, I will believe you. But it should be said that an unvaccinated patient infected another precisely at a time when he not vaccinated according to indications. This is to say that the adult population almost completely ignores the vaccination schedule, with the exception of catering and child care facilities.
  15. major147 April 1 2020 18: 27 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    DO NOT VACCINATE

    Now my wife and I have opened data on her laptop for the site. Of course, such an account as you require
    "A non-vaccinated patient infected the other precisely during the period when he did not vaccinate according to his testimony"
    not conducted. There are statistics on sick "refuseniks" (parents write a refusal of vaccinations).
  16. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 18: 32 New
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    Quote: major147
    There are statistics on sick "refuseniks" (parents write a refusal of vaccinations).

    Statistics on the disease from which they refused to vaccinate? Speak, if not difficult, even the head of the clinic refused me such information. Children's Clinic.
  17. major147 April 1 2020 18: 33 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: major147
    There are statistics on sick "refuseniks" (parents write a refusal of vaccinations).

    Statistics on the disease from which they refused to vaccinate? Speak, if not difficult, even the head of the clinic refused me such information. Children's Clinic.

    For what disease, their "bouquet"?
  18. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 18: 36 New
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    Yes, anyway. If you give an example of a 2-3 disease, it will be more objective.
  19. major147 April 1 2020 18: 47 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Yes, anyway. If you give an example of a 2-3 disease, it will be more objective.

    For the 19th year - paratitis, no rubella. Whooping cough - 4; Measles - 2. That's all.
  20. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 18: 49 New
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    Quote: major147
    Whooping cough - 4; Measles - 2. That's all.

    As I understand it, these are cases of unvaccinated diseases. And what is the total number of unvaccinated? To understand what to relate to. And then for 10 unvaccinated people this is insanely much, and for 1000 it’s just a random error.
  21. major147 April 1 2020 18: 59 New
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    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: major147
    Whooping cough - 4; Measles - 2. That's all.

    As I understand it, these are cases of unvaccinated diseases. And what is the total number of unvaccinated? To understand what to relate to. And then for 10 unvaccinated people this is insanely much, and for 1000 it’s just a random error.

    Vaccinated either do not get sick, or get sick in a mild form. A plot of about 800 children. As I wrote, they are not vaccinated both because of refusal and for medical reasons. The data is constantly changing (the child recovered - he was vaccinated). I will not sit and choose monthly refuseniks. Excuse me hi
  22. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 20: 08 New
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    Quote: major147
    I will not sit and choose monthly refuseniks. Excuse me

    I understand that tedious and painstaking work with dubious motivation and even more dubious results.
    But it is precisely by the total mass of refuseniks that need to be judged by isolating the percentage of incidence in their environment. request
  • unaha April 1 2020 14: 10 New
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    To approach individually. "Heavy" vaccinations are easier to import imported.
  • AU Ivanov. April 1 2020 14: 36 New
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    And if you do not vaccinate children, then hundreds will die.
  • Blacksmith 55 April 1 2020 12: 16 New
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    RIGHT GRANDMOTHER.
    My grandchildren received all vaccinations, except the youngest, she still "did not fit" by age. But I think her turn will come.
    1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 19 New
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      Quote: smith 55
      RIGHT GRANDMOTHER.
      My grandchildren received all vaccinations, except the youngest, she still "did not fit" by age. But I think her turn will come.

      And the minusers are trying ....... Neither from the "Square"? They refused there, now they are raking in full.
      1. Blacksmith 55 April 1 2020 12: 28 New
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        I don’t know where the "minusers" come from, I am of the opinion that everyone has the right to their own.
        I put the cons very rarely, when it’s really stupid what they wrote.
        1. major147 April 1 2020 12: 34 New
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          [/ quote] [quote = Smith 55] I put the cons well very rarely, when really what stupidity they wrote

          Yes, it's not a minus. Here is the forum. Everyone can express their opinion and defend their position. But when they set the vile minus without arguing, it means just a vain! When they quietly pile me on the downsides, I am satisfied. So I "got" the enemy, he has no arguments and he can only crap around the corner!
  • Operator April 1 2020 11: 58 New
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    We ourselves are to blame for the existence of opponents of vaccination - we must put on a life-long quarantine all those who do not want to be vaccinated themselves or vaccinate their children: first of all, refusal to admit to kindergartens, distance learning in schools and universities, issuing a wolf ticket instead of a labor ticket books, treatment of any diseases (including dentistry) only in infectious diseases departments, the obligation to constantly wear medical masks, etc.

    Plus, the refusal of an entry visa to all foreigners (including diplomats) who do not provide a certificate of vaccination.

    And even better - marking patients with special entries on their smartphones that are read in bluetooth mode bully
    1. JD1979 April 1 2020 12: 54 New
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      As I understand it, from your statement that you already got your ticket that you are not friends with your head? I don’t understand only why they left you access to the Internet and communications.
    2. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 13: 11 New
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      Quote: Operator
      Who doesn’t want to vaccinate themselves or vaccinate their children:

      Before this, it is necessary to take full responsibility for the complications of vaccinations, and not to deny them.
      Regarding failures in kindergartens - they take, mine go. Although I had to run.
      1. Operator April 1 2020 13: 39 New
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        Who the hell are your responsibility for spreading your children epidemic diseases among normal people? And what is your responsibility - will your family self-shoot in this case?
        1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 14: 10 New
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          Quote: Operator
          Fuck us your responsibility to spread epidemic diseases among your normal children

          1) Your children are vaccinated, and therefore probably protected? wink
          2) Speaking of responsibility, I talked about the responsibility of the Ministry of Health for vaccine complications. She is not there right now. How to persuade to be vaccinated - so all doctors are for, how to answer for complications - so everything is in the bushes.
          1. Operator April 1 2020 15: 03 New
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            Yes - vaccines sometimes cause complications or death, but only a few die. But from the unvaccinated, a pandemic is possible with tens to hundreds of millions of dead.

            In other words, you doom yourself and us to death from momentary egoism. It’s time to hang a “Biohazard” sign on your apartment door / gate of your house

            1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 15: 30 New
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              Quote: Operator
              Yes - sometimes there are complications or death from vaccines, but only a few die

              Few die, but many remain disabled. I personally know such a family, relatives of a good friend.
              And somehow you get away from the topic of necessity responsibility for post-vaccination complications and open accounting of all complications. In addition, you also get away from discussing the need for studies on the compatibility of the child's body with a specific vaccine.
              If these conditions, absolutely healthy for a normal person, are met, then neither I nor anyone else will object to vaccination.
              1. Operator April 1 2020 15: 37 New
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                Complication is already liable in the form of a disability pension or survivor's payment.

                But there is no responsibility for the emergence of an epidemic with millions of victims and an economic crisis from the unvaccinated (confiscation of property, placement in a leper colony, capital punishment).
                1. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 15: 39 New
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                  Quote: Operator
                  in the form of a disability pension or survivor benefit.

                  To say how much the treatment of such a child costs, and how much is the pension? The state should fully provide for such children, and not try to “pay off,” as is now being done. People have been suing for years to prove their case. It is not normal!
  • Baloo April 1 2020 12: 11 New
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    In countries where vaccination is carried out, the lowest mortality from the current crown and its incidence. All who are against vaccination, to the moon !.
  • Cowbra April 1 2020 12: 47 New
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    In relation to vaccinations, there are TWO serious arguments against, the author actually did not name a single one.
    dangerous with numerous side effects
    Vaccination is the introduction of a weakened, but antigen, which, in the first place, is often a viable pathogen, but weakened ... Either its killed pathogens (where "deficiencies" may fall), or a toxin. Those. a person actually gets sick - but in a mild form. This is the essence of vaccination. Having relieved, the white blood cells "record in memory" the image of the enemy. But some and a small dose is enough to move the horses from the vaccine. And there are even statistics for each of the vaccines.
    The second one. You won’t be pretended from everything. This year's flu vaccine will not help in the next - the strain will be different. And even more so you will not graft from a new sore.
    -------
    In general, so. There are things that need to be vaccinated simply by force, without looking at the screaming morons-parents. Tuberculosis and hepatitis with tetanus - no options. The danger of getting infected is not just great, everyone meets her for sure. Polio ... It's hard here, in fact, it disappeared. But in order for it to disappear altogether, it would be necessary to set. Measles-rubella-mumps - without options, is still the scourge of mortality.
    Adults ... IMHO so - those who did not get vaccinated - I would let them out of the country, but let them back in only after a full diagnosis at his expense and isolation, at his expense in a single infectious disease - the term is in accordance with the zone from where I arrived. Some tropical and 45 days incubation period - well, let him pay.
  • betta April 1 2020 12: 50 New
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    I am an opponent of vaccinations. I was vaccinated against BCG, but at the age of 7 I got sick with intestinal tuberculosis. Every year, children are given a Mantoux test. Does BCG help? In a recent ruling, judges of the German Federal Supreme Court (BGH) admitted that the measles virus does not exist. Moreover, in the world there is not a single scientific study supported by evidence published in the scientific literature, which would prove the existence of this virus. And then the question arises, what substance has been administered to millions of people under the guise of a vaccine in the last few decades? Still find reasons for rejection?
    1. Cowbra April 1 2020 13: 14 New
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      Quote: betta
      judges The German Federal Supreme Court (BGH) recognized that the measles virus does not exist.

      They thread that in epidemiology rummage? Call me a lawyer, let me treat you from the flu! Well you give.
      And further. You. Tube is a disease of a weakened organism. Here the vaccine will not help, if the immune system is oppressed. The rest helps. So that they understand what I mean - he is in prisons and at the vaccinated - often arises. Just for God's sake, don’t think that I am hinting at you - remember yourself what happened? Are you so sick in the middle of a Pentathlon competition? Or did something kick your body? And most likely in the intestines.
      1. betta April 1 2020 13: 56 New
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        Excerpt from the article: During the trial, it was also recorded that the German Higher Scientific Institution in the field of infectious diseases - the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), despite legal concessions in accordance with the fourth act against infectious diseases (IfSG), failed to create tests confirming the existence of measles virus and publish them. At the Robert Koch Institute, they claim to have conducted internal research on the measles virus, but they have refused to publish or publish the results.
        1. Cowbra April 1 2020 14: 07 New
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          So this is a story about that screwed up at the institute on a specific study. Well, here I am not surprised, but the Germans do it there - it happens that their pharmacy is covered with darkness, for example, they released drugs, and they release them - knowing that the clinical trials have failed ... But this does not mean at all the conclusions that you made! The story of how failed, having spent money, tests in that research institute, and you already started arguing with Koch. And not with the morons that the institute named after him. Koch is generally an icon of microbiology, and the institute of his name is - oh, not a fact
          1. betta April 1 2020 14: 31 New
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            Everyone is free, is in error, or think and find out. This article is apparently dedicated to those who believe in holy medicine.
            I recalled: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for truth, for they will be filled."
            What man strives for there and abides.
            1. Cowbra April 1 2020 14: 54 New
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              I recommend one thing for you - about you - everyone chooses his own path, do not cripple your children
          2. Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 15: 35 New
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            Quote: Cowbra
            So this is a story about that screwed up at the institute on a specific study.

            And they probably did not have enough brains to present confirmed studies of other institutions. wassat Or are they secret?
            1. Cowbra April 1 2020 21: 15 New
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              http://www.paster.ru/m/
              Moron
              1. Ingvar 72 April 2 2020 09: 15 New
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                Quote: Cowbra
                Moron

                Self-critical. After all, it’s really difficult to name a person differently when it comes to research in serious research institutes, and as an argument he gives a link to the website of a commercial laboratory in Moscow, where he makes analyzes for money. good
    2. betta April 1 2020 15: 23 New
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      Even before the heap:
      Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? (Tomljenovic, 2011, Curr Med Chem.)
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21568886
      Despite 90 years of use of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines, it is still unknown why, and how exactly, aluminum causes such a strong immune response.
      The high toxicity and danger of aluminum consumed orally was already known in 1911 when Dr. William Gies published the results of seven years of research on aluminum in baking powder, in preservatives and in colorants. Aluminum affects memory, concentration, and behavior. (It turns out, incidentally, that aluminum is still added to baking powder (baking powder), and to food preservatives).
      Premature babies fed with mixtures with aluminum developed worse than babies with mixtures without aluminum.
      Aluminum, which is used in kidney dialysis, leads to dementia, convulsions, psychosis, etc.
      Aluminum is also associated with Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, autism and epilepsy.
      The amount of aluminum in vaccinations is ten times higher than the norm set by the FDA.
      There is still much interesting without a connection with aluminum, this article is worth reading in full.

      This is a small part about the effects of aluminum, which is found in most vaccinations.
      You just can not imagine how much material about the negative effects of vaccines!
  • AB
    AB April 1 2020 12: 53 New
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    the anti-vaccination movement, which has two main sources in our country

    A plague on both your houses ... Insurance medicine is evil. Now there is hope for the restoration of the mandatory vaccination. The challenge should be for medical reasons only. There are no other reasons for refusing to be vaccinated.
  • Gate68 April 1 2020 13: 48 New
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    In the army he fell ill with measles. I almost died. I do all vaccinations for my children.
  • Nikolaevich I April 1 2020 13: 59 New
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    I am not afraid of vaccinations! If necessary, prick!
  • parusnik April 1 2020 14: 04 New
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    the first who was vaccinated against smallpox in our country was Empress Catherine II.
    ... The second was her son Paul, but vaccination did not help him, he died from an apoplexy stroke .. laughing
    1. Baloo April 1 2020 14: 57 New
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      Quote: parusnik
      the first who was vaccinated against smallpox in our country was Empress Catherine II.
      ... The second was her son Paul, but vaccination did not help him, he died from an apoplexy stroke .. laughing

      lower mortality and morbidity in Israel and Russia from the current crown is precisely connected with the vaccination calendar. In countries where there are no compulsory vaccinations, mortality is ten times higher, as is morbidity. yes
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Normal ok April 1 2020 15: 38 New
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    The author bashfully did not mention the third category - those who fear low-quality drugs that give serious side effects. And the fact that such drugs are being marketed in Russia only yesterday was written on VO, in an article on the resistance of viruses to antibiotics.
  • Servisinzhener April 1 2020 15: 42 New
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    I am for vaccinations, although the eldest daughter had a complication after one of the vaccinations. The injection site was festering, but here it’s not clear what the vaccine was or the dirt was brought.
    Since the topic is being raised on a resource with a military, historical and political theme. That is my opinion that the state should support vaccination in spite of individual side effects that may arise from vaccinations. Strive to ensure that the maximum number of people is vaccinated. And all these anti-vaccination statements are minimized.
    After all, if you do not get vaccinated, then in case of war we can be attacked with the same cruise missiles with bacteriological weapons that will be very effective on such fertile soil. And the consequences of the application of which will be impossible to fend off.
    If someone wants to know what I would say if something happens to my children from the vaccine. I don’t know what I would say. But I know for sure that the state in no case needed to stop vaccination based on my words, because there will be more harm than good.
  • NordUral April 1 2020 16: 15 New
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    The main reason for refusing vaccinations, for me, for example, is the suspicion that they are not done at all for my posture, but rather the opposite. After all, Bill's friend bluntly said that several billion stupid little men had really begun to live on such a small Earth.
  • nikvic46 April 1 2020 18: 05 New
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    Vaccination must be done, but by no means on the street. It is necessary for the doctor to know who can and who can not. Someone cannot, they are few, but nevertheless it is very dangerous for them. In 50 years we were given injections, and swallowed red balls, and oily liquid against worms. Prevention, and not watch after the departing train.
  • Awaz April 2 2020 09: 37 New
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    personally, I am not at all opposed to vaccinations, and I accept all those that are given to me and my children.
    The problem is, however, that the system has now changed and the vaccines we have are not of our own production but imported.
    I’ll just tell you my example: This is a real observation on my family and that’s why I am not discouraging anyone, and maybe everything is different from others. For many years we have been vaccinated with the whole family from the Influenza. Everything would be fine, but at some point, after the vaccination with the whole family, we started to get ARVI, and it’s very difficult, always with a very high temperature and for a long time. I even once extended a sick leave through a commission.
    So, somehow I did not get vaccinated and did not get sick, the only one from the family. The following year, I forbade the child to get vaccinated and we were not sick just.
    Now we are not vaccinated. It happens more often, but not as cruel as it was before, and then not every year and not all together in a row, as was the case with vaccinations.
  • there April 3 2020 13: 07 New
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    American scientists have determined that an old BCG vaccine affects the body's ability to not get infected with coronavirus and is easier to tolerate.
    In the USSR, this vaccine was ubiquitous and mandatory for all children for 3-5 days of life (if there are no contraindications). Maybe this explains why there are not so many sick people in Russia?
    This is a study by staff at the American College of Osteopathic Medicine. On March 28, a preprint of their scientific article appeared on the MedRxiv website, which shows the difference between mortality from coronavirus in countries with compulsory BCG vaccination and countries where it is carried out at will or is absent altogether. The United States and the Netherlands, for example, have never used the vaccine in bulk. Researchers studied the situation in 60 countries. BCG vaccines were canceled in Italy in 2001. In Portugal, only two years ago. A gap of 16 years - and a sixteen-fold difference in mortality rates from COVID-19. Even if we compare Germany: in its eastern part, where Scoops were vaccinated after the war, there were very smart people.
  • itis April 14 2020 22: 05 New
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    everything has its time. there is no vaccination for smallpox (which the strains only remained in the laboratories). vaccinations for jaundice, tuberculosis, tetanus, measles and diphtheria, of course