Military Review

Russian history in English

344

“In human ignorance, it’s very comforting to consider everything as nonsense that you don’t know.”

DI. Fonvizin. Undergrowth


Science vs. Pseudoscience. How often do we meet with our media cliched accusations against foreign countries of distorting our stories! But who do they come from? From journalists who for the most part do not know foreign languages ​​and have never read books on them. The philistine opinion is this: if a journalist writes, then he knows. And he, this very journalist, in many cases simply rewrites material from another! “The tailor studied with another, the other with the third, and the first one the tailor studied with?” - "Yes, the first tailor, maybe sewn worse than mine." The dialogue from Fonvizin’s “Undergrowth” clearly shows how this happens.

But even those journalists who know foreign languages ​​well are abroad and have direct communication, as a rule, they are reporters. That is, they make a “report”, a report on events - about who and what said, where and what happened. Physically, they have no time to read historical monographs or magazines, and they are not paid for that. They pay, for example, for "there was a threat." Any: military, economic, informational ... After all, when there is a “threat”, then the need for a centralized, or even just personal leadership, increases. This is an axiom of public administration. And the external threat allows you to perfectly blame it on all the internal troubles and shortcomings. “Why do we lack food in the USSR and have the Food Program been adopted?” “But because Star Wars!” And that’s all! Everyman is satisfied. He received a simple and accessible answer to his consciousness and intellect. A magazine "Aviation and astronautics ”he does not read, and he will never know about everything that is written there.

The Internet has appeared, the ability to receive information from people has increased. But the problem of time and language remained. The vast majority of VO visitors know a foreign language at the level of “I read and translate with a dictionary” (moreover, a dictionary of the Soviet era). Therefore, they are unlikely to start their day by reading the editorials of the Washington Post, The Times or People's Daily (the latter, however, is ridiculous to recall). But again, one thing is what politicians say there, and quite another thing that historians write and what students then read in colleges and universities. And the fact that many citizens do not read them is also understandable. However, the availability of books already makes it possible to distinguish between science and politics, which are "different things." So for those who accuse the "treacherous abroad" of distorting the historical truth, it would be decent to always rely on facts and write: such-and-such a newspaper wrote such-and-such from such-and-such a number, and it is not true; in the book of such and such an author, such and such a publishing house, on such and such page it is written ... and this is a distortion of facts, politicians such and such, speaking there and there ... said the following, and this is a complete lie. Then it will be really valuable counter-propaganda, and not a cheap idle talk, not worthy of “VO”, but perhaps the most banal yellow press.

Well, since we have recently been engaged in the source study of our Russian history, then let's see what "there" is written about our ancient times.

Note that the most accessible literature in the West on historical subjects are the books of the Osprey publishing house. First of all, they are cheap, colorful (which is always attractive!), Written in a simple, understandable language. In England, they are used as a teaching tool at the Sandhurst Military Academy, as well as at universities and colleges, and in addition, they are read by the whole world, since they are published not only in English, but also in many other languages. So Opprey books are truly international publications. In 1999, as part of the Man at arms series, No. 333 was published by Professor David Nicolas’s book “Armies of medieval Russia 750-1250”, with a dedication to our historian M. Gorelik, without which she would “not see the light”. So let's read it, find out what version of Russian history it offers to foreign readers. In order to avoid any accusations of fraud, part of the text from it was laid out in the form of pictures, well, and the translation was then given as it should, in some cases with the author’s comments. So, we read ...


This is a page with explanations for the drawings on pages A and B


3rd page from the book of D. Nicolas, and here is such a text there. But I won’t torment anyone with the English language, but the understandable Russian translation will go to everyone, and in fact it’s literal, only with separate purely stylistic corrections

Russia to Russia


MEDIEVAL STATES OF RUSSIA arose in the forest and forest-steppe regions of modern Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, while competing nomadic states of the south existed in the steppe. However, they did have cities, and these were the so-called “nomadic states,” which were highly developed throughout most of the Middle Ages. The whole region was crossed by rivers, and most of the settlements were on their banks. Rivers were the best traffic arteries in the summer, when they sailed on them in boats and in the winter, when they were used as frozen highways; and it is not surprising that they were also used as transport arteries in the war. They effectively connected Scandinavia and Western Europe with the Byzantine Empire and the world of Islam. Trade brought wealth, and wealth attracted predators, both internal and external. In fact, raids, piracy and robbery remained the main feature of medieval Russian history.

The steppe occupied a prominent place in Russian military history. It was an arena not only for heroic deeds, but also for a military catastrophe. Unlike the steppe, their lands were covered with forests and swamps, and also separated by rivers. Nomadic peoples lived here, although they were not more warlike than their settled neighbors, they possessed great military potential and were more used to tribal discipline than the inhabitants of the forest. In the early Middle Ages, the Slavs were relative newcomers who continued to develop new territories even when medieval Russia was already created.

Further to the north, nomadic hunter peoples inhabited the Arctic tundra, who did not seem to have their own military aristocracy. On the other hand, many Finnish or Ugric tribes of the subarctic taiga and northern forests clearly had a military elite. These tribes included Votyaks, Vod, Ests, Chud and Komi or Zyryans. The eastern Finno-Ugric population had a more developed culture and weapons compared to them, as well as massive strongholds made of land and wood (see Attila and the Nomad Hordes, series No. 30 Elite, Osprey). Among them were Meria, Murom, Teryuhane, Karate, Mari and Mordvinians. Some were assimilated and disappeared during the 11th and 12th centuries, but others retain their identity to this day.

The Udmurts, or Votyaks, separated from the Zyryans in the 8th century, which were crowded out by competing tribes east to their habitats along the headwaters of the Vyatka and Kama rivers. The lands of the Khanty or Mansi taiga regions in the extreme northeast of the European part of Russia were included in the rapidly growing Russian state (“Novgorod Land”) at the end of the 12th century. Beyond the Urals, other Ugric tribes lived, which seemed so terrifying that the Russians believed that they were locked behind the copper gates until Judgment Day.


Map of the settlement of peoples on the territory of the East European Plain, approx. 910 g

Since for some reason many readers of VO are very offended by the annalistic text about the “calling of the Varangians”, let's see how this event is described in the book by D. Nicolas.


Here it is just written about the "calling of the Varangians" ...

According to legend, a representative of the Scandinavian nobility named Rurik was invited to Novgorod land in 862. Some scholars have identified him as Rorik of Jutland, the Danish military leader mentioned in western sources. In reality, Rurik probably arrived almost twenty years earlier, after which he and his followers extended their power south along the Dvina and Dnieper rivers, ousting or joining the previous Swedish adventurers called Rus. A generation later, most of the Magyars who dominated the Kiev region migrated west to where Hungary is now located, although who exactly drove them there — Bulgarians, Pechenegs, or Rus — remains unclear.

The state of Russia may not have been a major power then militarily, but large river fleets have already been built here that set sail thousands of miles for robbery or trade, and controlled strategic crossings between large rivers. The Khazars at that time were in a difficult situation and would probably have agreed to the seizure of Russian lands if the Khazar authorities continued to be recognized here. But around 930, Prince Igor seized power in Kiev, which soon became the main center of state power in Russia. For several decades, Igor was recognized as the crown prince and was engaged in the fact that together with his team he made annual trips to the polyuds, thus collecting his yet amorphous state into one whole ...

Russian history in English
Page B. Prince Svyatoslav (971), warrior of the pagan squad, Prince of Pecheneg. Fig. A. McBride

"The name Varjazi or, in Byzantine Greek, Varangians was sometimes given to the warrior elite of this new Kievan Rusy but in fact the Varjazi were a separate group of Scandinavian adventurers, who included many pagans at a time when Christianity was spreading across Scandinavia itself ".

The name Varjazi, or, in Byzantine Greek, Varangians, was given to the elite of the warriors of this new Kievan Rus, but in fact Varjazi were a separate group of Scandinavian adventurers who included many pagans at a time when Christianity spread throughout Scandinavia.


Map of Kievan Rus

Some of them traveled in large groups, which were ready-made “armies” led by Swedish, Norwegian and Danish leaders, who for a fee were ready to join anyone, including countries such as Georgia and Armenia, and either rob or trade.

However, it would be wrong to consider the creation of Kievan Rus exclusively as a Scandinavian enterprise. Existing Slavic tribal elites were also involved in this process, so during the time of Prince Vladimir, the military and merchant aristocracy of Kiev were a mixture of Scandinavian and Slavic families. In fact, the power of the princes depended on a union of their interests, the interests of its mainly Scandinavian squads, and city merchants of very different origins. Khazar tribal groups also played an important role in command and control of the army, as their culture was more developed than the culture of Scandinavian Rus. Meanwhile, the Balts and the Finns at that time still retained their social and, possibly, military structure under the remote authority of Kiev.


Page S. Russian soldiers of 10-11 centuries: 1 - “commander” of the princely “army”, 2 - warrior of the “senior squad”, 3 - city militia. Fig. A. McBride

Interestingly, the Varangian leaders were given the role of generals even in the Christian 11th century; Thus, one of the most famous examples is connected with the name of King Harald Hardrad, who eventually became king of Norway and died during the invasion of England in 1066. One of Harald’s court poets, Thiodolf, spoke about how Harald fought with Count Rognvald in the service of Prince Yaroslav, leading his squad. Moreover, Harald spent several years in Russia before heading to Byzantium, where he also had many adventures. Only by the beginning of the 12th century did the stream of Scandinavian warriors basically dry up, and those of them who had settled in Russia earlier were assimilated.


Page D. Russian soldiers of the 11-12th centuries: 1 - a Mordovian warrior, 2 - a princely retinue, 3 - a Novgorod militia. Fig. A. McBride

If we take into account that the entire printed text of this Osprey publication is only 48 pages, along with drawings and photographs, it turns out that the text itself is even smaller, about 32 pages. And here they had to tell about the history of Russia, and give the entire chronology of events from 750 to 1250, and tell about the older and younger squads, and about weapon and armor, fortresses and siege equipment, as well as give a description of the illustrations and a list of used literature, one can imagine both the level of generalization of this material and the level of skill in its presentation.


Page G. "Black Hoods" 12 - beginning of the 13th century .: 1 - a noble Russian warrior, 2 - the leader of the "black hoods, 3 - the standard bearer of the" black hoods "

The statement, we note, is strictly scientific, since it is easy to verify that the author did not step back one step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of chronicles. After reading the whole book, you can be quite sure that it contains a very brief, concise, but nevertheless exhaustive description of the early history of the Russian state without any humiliation, as well as fantastic conjectures and distortions.


And here is a page with descriptions of illustrations (p. D, E and F) and instructions on the basis of which Russian sources they were made

PS But these photos D. Nicole and A. McBride used in the preparation of sketches for the design of this publication.


Combat belt. Mordovian Republican United Museum of Local Lore I.D. Voronin







List of used literature. This is just one page, given as an example. Pay attention to the error in the surname Kirpichnikov. Well, our "Cyrillic" names and surnames, as well as many names, are not given to English-speaking foreigners. In the movie “Ocean’s Eight Friends” it is so bluntly said: “Russian with an unpronounceable surname!” And for many, this is true. But there is still a middle name - this is generally darkness and horror!

PPS The site administration and the author are grateful to the scientific team of the Mordovian Republican United Museum of Local Lore named after I.D. Voronin for the photos provided.
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Articles from this series:
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Great Flood: Doggerland and Sturegga
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 April 12 2020 06: 53 New
    16
    History is the same tool to influence the minds of citizens! It is important who uses this tool and how.
    Archival documents also come across .... not of accuracy, not of conformity, but to inflate problems to the skies, to use inaccurate, erroneous data, this is not at all the case of learned historians. Most often, people from a completely different office do this!
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 12 2020 07: 39 New
      +9
      Quote: rocket757
      History is the same tool to influence the minds of citizens! It is important who uses this tool and how.

      First of all, objectively, History is Sciencestudying the past.
      and who and what is doing with her .... request
      author: So for those who accuse the "treacherous abroad" of distorting the historical truth, it would be decent to always rely on facts and write: such-and-such a newspaper wrote such-and-such from such-and-such a number , but this is not true; in the book of such and such an author, such and such a publisher, on such and such page it is written ... and this is a distortion of facts, a politician such and such, speaking there ... said the following, and this is a complete lie. Then it’s there will be really valuable counter-propaganda, and not a cheap idle talk, not worthy of "VO", but perhaps the most banal yellow press.

      valuable counter-propaganda will only be when it does not simply declare deceit and gives objective counterarguments from primary sources and scientific monographs

      Steppe article occupied a prominent place in Russian military history. It was an arena not only for heroic deeds, but also for a military catastrophe. Unlike the steppe, their lands were covered by forests and swamps, and also separated by rivers. Nomadic peoples lived here.who, although they were not more belligerent than their settled neighbors, possessed great military potential and were more accustomed to tribal discipline than the inhabitants of the forest.

      google translator? recourse
      but, nevertheless, an exhaustive description of the early history of the Russian state without any humiliation as well as fantastic speculation and distortion.

      wow, "no humiliation: they are ardent adherents of the Norman theory, on the Scandinavians you stumble in every paragraph ...

      But they are safe: they constantly meet their favorite probably -highly likely yes

      The article is interesting, it is always entertaining what others think and know about us ....
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 12 2020 07: 49 New
        +9
        History is a science, historians, real, these are scientists, not a question.
        If all this remained the subject of academic knowledge, a cognitive-educational subject, help to create the right model for the development of mankind, there would be no dispute.
        Now they are used as a tool to create numerous disagreements between states, people!
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 12 2020 08: 15 New
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          History is a science, historians, real, these are scientists, not a question.
          If all this remained the subject of academic knowledge, a cognitive-educational subject, help to create the right model for the development of mankind, there would be no dispute.
          Now they are used as a tool to create numerous disagreements between states, people!

          Believe me, it would be much calmer and more pleasant for me if such literature in English (and other languages) was created (and published) for a foreign reader exclusively in Russia by Russian historian authors.
          This and the status of the country and its science would raise and lower the level of manipulation with the history of Russia-Russia ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 12 2020 08: 21 New
            +4
            It is clear that for our, national and state self-consciousness, it would be more useful.
            BUT, as it turned out, it’s difficult to change the archie! At least a dozen works, create encyclopedias, in the external field they will use what is FAVORABLE!
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent April 12 2020 08: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: rocket757
              At least a dozen works, create encyclopedias, in the external field they will use what is FAVORABLE!

              Smart man thinking, will find a grain of truth in the mountain of husks. And Russia should focus on such people, and not on fool
          2. kalibr
            April 12 2020 08: 27 New
            14
            Quote: Insurgent
            This and the status of the country and its science would raise and lower the level of manipulation with the history of Russia-Russia ...

            I completely agree with you. But ... such publishers will need state support. And our state does not really like to "throw" money. The Americans published in 99 volumes of the history of WWII, and we have the history of the Second World War in how many? But it would be necessary for them to publish it in 100 volumes in English and offer it to all universities for free!
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 April 12 2020 09: 18 New
              +6
              Do what you must and will do what you need!
              Only the concept of this due, up there they understand in their own way.
              This is not just sad, it is also dangerous for us as a people, a nation, as a whole.
              Timid attempts to do something like this will not help us much.
              What power, such is the attitude to our common history .... again about politics, about power! Nothing comes of it.
            2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko April 13 2020 15: 10 New
              0
              100 is extremely small! You need at least a dozen thousand, and that will not be enough!
          3. vladcub
            vladcub April 12 2020 17: 45 New
            +6
            "was created (and mocked) exclusively in Russia, by Russian authors-historians" historians are also different: Fomenko, Petukhov and Karamzin and Rybakov are all historians, but each of them will have their own history
      2. kalibr
        April 12 2020 08: 02 New
        +9
        Quote: Olgovich
        "without humiliation: they are ardent adherents of the Norman theory, on the Scandinavians you stumble in every paragraph ...

        It is not written anywhere that the Slavs did not have statehood and culture. It was possible to invite Rurik to princes only if there was a princedom institute, and the princedom institute implied the existence of certain social relations. The Normans were talking about this, that they were not there, that our ancestors were sitting on oaks. And they simply benefited a person from the side, and even with a squad. In everything dependent on them, did not know the language.
        1. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky April 15 2020 21: 34 New
          0
          What the....?! belay
          What was the advantage of "a man from the outside, and even with a retinue"? There was no one to feed the locals, but really really wanted to feed someone? laughing
          And why was he addicted if he did not know the language? Road, perhaps I could not ask?
          With this "logic" and Batu was dependent on Russia, he did not know the language. wassat
      3. Gato
        Gato April 12 2020 12: 07 New
        -2
        History is science

        History can be considered a science with a very big stretch, since it lacks the main component of the scientific method - the reproducibility of the experiment. Therefore, until the invention of the time machine, it will remain an element of ideology and propaganda.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master April 12 2020 15: 30 New
          +9
          Quote: Gato
          it lacks the main component of the scientific method - the reproducibility of the experiment.

          As well as in theoretical physics, higher mathematics and many others ...
          Quote: Gato
          it will remain an element of ideology and propaganda

          Only in the minds of the ignorant.
          The lower the level of education, the ceteris paribus, it is easier to convince him of something.
          In principle, against you, enemy propaganda has already reached its goal - you are struck by yourself and spread the infection of historical nihilism. You have already been stripped of history. You do not have it. Not at all, no.
          This is also a good result for those whom you call propagandists, although, of course, ideally it is better not only to deprive a person of orientation in the ideological space, but also to instill in him the necessary values, so to speak, to direct him in the right direction.
          You perceive history as a weapon used in the ideological struggle. And she’s not a weapon - she’s just armor in this fight. Not the only, but important. And you, at least partially, have been deprived of this armor. You have become more vulnerable to propaganda.
          There are two main directions in pseudo-history - conditionally "national-patriotic" and "liberal-nihilistic". Both are equally false and equally harmful. With their help, making efforts in one direction or the other, we are ideologically swayed, bent back and forth like a wire, in order to eventually break. Fomenko and Petukhov on one scale, Suvorov and Shirokorad on the other. Throwing money in one or the other, you can eventually get the desired result.
          1. Gato
            Gato April 12 2020 15: 46 New
            -3
            Only in the minds of the ignorant.
            The lower the level of education, the ceteris paribus, it is easier to convince him of something

            You know better.
            In principle, against you, enemy propaganda has already reached its goal - you are struck by yourself and spread the infection of historical nihilism. You have already been stripped of history. You do not have it. Not at all, no.

            In relation to you, it must be understood, has "friendly" propaganda achieved its goal? Well, let your hysterical bubbles go on, consider your opinion the only correct one.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master April 12 2020 17: 43 New
              +3
              Quote: Gato
              consider your opinion the only correct one.

              Well, there’s simply no other justification, so it’s necessary.
              Do you know what is the paradox of the current situation with history? In the fact that under the guise of the struggle between "liberals" and "patriots" in the historical clearing, they are vigorously pushing to us from both sides an outright lie. Stalin's millions of victims, vile and mediocre Rurik, traitors to the Romanovs, the slavish essence of the Russian people on the one hand, and the Great Leader Stalin, Holy Princes and Tsars, superethnos and Great Tartary on the other - all this is funded from one pocket. Today they will throw some money on one, tomorrow to another.
              As a result, we have two groups of completely duped people who can be led to the barricades right now, and a group of "undecided" to which camp to join, but, let's say, with weakened immunity. On the eve of any significant political events, the pressure on them will intensify and they will also turn into politically active figures on one side or the other.
              The trick is that, if necessary, both "patriots" and "liberals" can be brought out onto the streets by a UNITED FRONT and, as the example of Ukraine shows, this will undoubtedly be done.
              Pseudo-history, patriotic or liberal, no difference - this is an instrument (one of) shaking the society, a way to split it, to destabilize.
              History is a way to protect oneself from this split, an instrument of consolidation, the unification of society, and its stabilization.
              The main difficulty is how to distinguish one from another, not a name for this special knowledge and skills. There are certain methods for this, if it’s interesting, I will sign it later.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 12 2020 20: 13 New
                +5
                There are certain methods for this, if it’s interesting, I will sign it later.
                It even became interesting how well-known to you the techniques are consistent with what Shpakovsky taught.
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master April 13 2020 12: 54 New
                  +7
                  Analysis of the contents of the book begins with a cover on which there is a Title, author and publisher, and on the back page there is also a summary, such as an annotation.
                  Books in the titles of which contain the words "truth", "in fact", "hide" "real", "genuine", etc. I personally hand over to junk immediately. Although you can look further, but, as a rule, this is enough.
                  Further, the author and publisher. There is a list of authors based on my personal experience, and a list of publishers to avoid. But this is my criteria personally, we won’t talk about it.
                  We pass to the short content. We are looking for the same keywords in it as in the names.
                  After that, go to the table of contents. In it we find the section "Bibliography" and look at the quantity and quality of the literature used. Well, quality can only be assessed with a certain amount of experience; for beginners, I would advise to focus on the number and titles of books. We are again looking for keywords in the titles of books, but the number can be considered sufficient from one and a half hundred.
                  And the last stage of verification - you are looking in the table of contents for a chapter or paragraph with information that you are better acquainted with, for example, in a book about Alexander Nevsky there cannot be a chapter about the Battle of Neva or the Battle of the Ice. You open, read somewhere in the middle of several pages, check links. But, as a rule, if it comes to this stage of verification, then we can already say that the literature is of high quality.
                  Something like this. This is my personal experience, for which it was paid in rubles and lost time. smile
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave April 13 2020 18: 41 New
                    +3
                    "In fact, the Trilobite Master AI was hiding the real truth from the android" 3x3z save "" laughing laughing laughing
                    I love Russian-language science fiction !!!
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 April 13 2020 19: 58 New
                      +1
                      The introduction reveals the advent of the characters and their unexpected meeting in the back street of the universe.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 13 2020 20: 02 New
                        +2
                        Yes, yes, according to the "Sheckley method"
            2. Catfish
              Catfish April 12 2020 18: 38 New
              +5
              Rudeness is not an argument, and a person with serious objections will always have decent words to prove his case. Judging by your comments, you simply don’t have them.
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku April 13 2020 10: 56 New
            +5
            Suvorov with Shirokorad to another.

            Mikhail, are you a bastard homosexual "Suvorov" with Shirokorad on a single sixth? wink nevertheless, it seems to me that they are engaged in several different things. hi (Yes, about the homosexual - I read in some book that the British, in general, caught the cutter on this ... hi ) And if Alexander Borisovich can, at least, be considered a historian of artillery, then the Reason is just a quack. stop
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master April 13 2020 12: 28 New
              +4
              Shirokorad - the first thing that came to mind.
              At one time I had a chance to buy his book, it is called something like "Russia and Lithuania", somewhere behind my back shelf it is gathering dust now. How much bile and shit he poured on our princes, they say, they are greedy and stupid and vile-disgusting, they did not know how to rule or fight, only in the Horde they sycophant and grovelled. But the Lithuanian princes - yes, strong, noble, courageous and honest, all as one, even if you take them to the exhibition.
              It’s very tendentious, biased and with such hatred for our history, for our rulers, and for Russia, in principle, that I all just spit.
              Later I saw several of his books, but I didn't buy any more, I just looked in the store, caught a sort of "dissident" component and put it aside.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku April 13 2020 13: 02 New
                +5
                How much bile and shit he poured on our princes, they say that they are greedy and stupid and vile and vile, neither knew how to rule nor to fight, only they licked and crawled in the Horde.

                if Alexander Borisovich moves away from the description of artillery to the description of his vision of history, he begins to write really emotionally yes and on some aspects .. how can you tell .. it could not have been so harsh. From the last that I read - "Northern Wars of Russia". What epithets he awards to Catherine the First there! fellow And False Dmitry II - so generally - is traced to the genealogy (there is a version that the "Tushino thief" was a Jew, and Shirokorad lets go of a couple of hairpins on this matter). hi But everyone decides what to write and how to write. request In general, it would be nice to get one of the authors of the site. He’s a ruffy man, it seems - that would be a forum! good drinks
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master April 13 2020 13: 16 New
                  +3
                  Now I remembered, "The genius of the Soviet artillery" about Grabin - is that his? I saw my father in the library. I looked through the book, but still put it off and did not read it. Besides, it's not my topic.
                  In general, according to the works of Shirokorad, based on what I read myself, he is not a historian, not a researcher, not a man of science in principle. Everything that Shirokorad writes needs to be carefully checked, since it is not a stranger to manipulation and manipulation, and also sins with selective facts. For this I criticized, if you remember, Ryzhov.
                  But I would probably agree that such an author would be appropriate for a place at VO. He can and knows how to present, to grapple with him and to pile on him reasonably on any topic would be interesting and honorable. And if it doesn’t work out, then it’s just interesting. smile
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku April 13 2020 13: 38 New
                    +6
                    Now I remembered, "The genius of the Soviet artillery" about Grabin - is that his? I saw my father in the library. I looked through the book, but still put it off and did not read it. Besides, it's not my topic.

                    Him. A very good book. And in fact, Grabin himself wrote his book - "The Weapon of Victory". yes
                    For this I criticized, if you remember, Ryzhov.

                    I do not remember. I personally have not criticized him. laughing
                    But I would probably agree that such an author would be appropriate for a place at VO. He can and knows how to present, to grapple with him and to pile on him reasonably on any topic would be interesting and honorable. And if it doesn’t work out, then it’s just interesting.

                    voooot, and I'm talking about the same thing, Michael! wink Discussing with him would be nice! Without rudeness and distortion, just - argumentatively. But for some categories of site visitors (well, who throw slogans and rudeness) certainly would have appeared another personal enemy! good Judging by his writing style, I think he would have shaved off such a contingent like that - you’ll swing! yes drinks Well, by the way, I would really be interested in chatting with him ... Without everything. Simply. hi
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master April 13 2020 14: 09 New
                      +3
                      Shirokorad is a professional writer. He needs to be paid in order for him to speak. And when there is Samsonov, who is on the staff, it is not profitable. In addition, the "History" section is by no means the most important here, I think if they start attracting interesting authors, it will not be here. However, let's see. In my opinion, there are only two sections here where you can usefully spend time - "History" and "Armament". But the main traffic is made by sections that are completely different. They will invest in them.
                      And just "chat" ... It takes a lot of time.
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku April 13 2020 14: 20 New
                        +5
                        I will subscribe to your every word. hi
                        It takes a lot of time.

                        if the work is sedentary, and without separation from it - not really.
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master April 13 2020 14: 33 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Not really.

                        This is if you flood or dive.
                        Thoughtful, high-quality comments on the topic require a lot of time. It is impossible to keep everything in memory - you need to refresh, check, so as not to write nonsense, think, again, formulate ...
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku April 13 2020 14: 55 New
                        +6
                        It is impossible to keep everything in memory - you need to refresh, check, so as not to write nonsense, think, again, formulate ...

                        to each his own. Viktor Nikolaevich, for example, seeks literature offhand from memory - and right on target. drinks
                        Thoughtful, high-quality comments on the topic require a lot of time.

                        not just time. The most important thing is inspiration ... hi
                      4. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master April 13 2020 15: 58 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Viktor Nikolaevich, for example, looking for literature offhand

                        Well, this is a special case ... However, I think that he also checks the sources. It's just that he has much more information in his head, so reconciliation takes much less time.
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        inspiration ...

                        In my case, some immersion. Being engaged in a fluid business or developing the next trick on work, it is impossible to concentrate on historical problems. I read someone’s comment, sat down, thought, wrote an answer, returned to work with renewed vigor. smile
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim April 13 2020 17: 22 New
                  +4
                  He wrote Shirokokrad for the site. In his own way - if the story does not coincide with the vision of Shirokograd, the worse for the story.
                3. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master April 13 2020 18: 25 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Undecim
                  He wrote Shirokrad for the site.

                  Viktor Nikolayevich, typos are usually not typical for you, all the more so in a row in the same place. You got me interested. Is there any secret behind this hint? smile
                  I did not know about the cooperation of this author with the site, it is also interesting.
                4. Undecim
                  Undecim April 13 2020 19: 13 New
                  +3
                  There is no secret. Alexander Borisovich, a very prolific author, as he skillfully compiles his books, sometimes you can find a quarter of another in his book. But this is not the main thing. In literary circles, he has the "pseudonym" Shirokokrad ", as he does not hesitate to borrow the work of fellow pen. Somewhere in my archives there was a link with" debriefing "and examples of" borrowings ", as well as hints of a candelabrum on the face. to find.
                  And for the site he wrote. At the very beginning of his acquaintance with Nikolai, he doubted my critical comment on Shirokorad; I sent him a parsing in the form of a table by electronic mail. In one column, as Shirokorad sees in the article, in the other, as in history.
                5. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master April 13 2020 21: 12 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Undecim
                  In one column, as Shirokorad sees in the article, in the other, as in history.

                  Did you get a big table? smile
                  Actually, such a table can be, and, perhaps, needed, be compiled by many authors. And put at the end of each of their books or articles. smile
                6. Undecim
                  Undecim April 13 2020 21: 22 New
                  +3
                  The table was not long; I limited myself to the first three to four facts. For example.
                7. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku April 14 2020 09: 58 New
                  +4
                  The table was not long; I limited myself to the first three to four facts. For example.

                  domestic artillery you then very well sorted out on the shelves. hi
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku April 14 2020 09: 57 New
                +4
                Actually, such a table can be, and, perhaps, needed, be compiled by many authors. And put at the end of each of their books or articles.

                in fact, from that article and from that critical analysis, my acquaintance with Viktor Nikolaevich began! drinks Yes, in that article, if you look critically, Alexander Borisovich "gave birth to an elephant" - in the sense, he inflated some data. hi
      4. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 13 2020 18: 52 New
        +3
        the "History" section is by no means the most important here, I think
        Exactly!!!
      5. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 13 2020 20: 16 New
        +2
        Each Yegor has its own sayings.
      6. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 13 2020 20: 53 New
        +3
        "New songs will come up with life,
        Don't worry about the song, buddy "(C)
      7. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 13 2020 21: 04 New
        +2
        Here it is interesting how the crickets on the corresponding sixes become dull.
      8. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 13 2020 21: 07 New
        +2
        "Looking at the battle from above" (C)?
      9. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 13 2020 21: 16 New
        +1
        The word "become silent" in an insidious way electronic brains have changed.
        I did not read either this Bulychev, or the “Exchange of Reasons” by Sheckley.

        A number of other branches would be interesting if there would be more discussion and less stereotyped emotions.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko April 13 2020 15: 13 New
    0
    And then you need to see who to send to the past! ... It is necessary to decide on a commission basis, and that there should be supporters of different schools in science.
  • vladcub
    vladcub April 12 2020 17: 20 New
    +3
    "it is always interesting to know what others think and know" exactly said
  • Sergey S.
    Sergey S. April 12 2020 18: 06 New
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    The article is interesting, it is always entertaining what others think and know about us ....

    Absolutely.
    That's why they "buy" us ...
    And then the questions.
    Why is there no Yaroslavl, Moscow, Tver, Ryazan, Chernihiv on the map ... but there is Nizhny Novgorod.

    Why is the Vladimir-Suzdal Principality already located on the Map of Kievan Rus, although for most of the historical period Suzdal was a capital city of lands without Vladimir.
    And Vladimir at the end of this period became the capital city of the Grand Duke ...

    Map of the settlement of peoples on the territory of the East European Plain, approx. The year 910 arouses distrust simply by the form of the territory called Kievan Rus. And the names of the peoples seem to be simply poured on the map.

    It is now again fashionable to talk about the "vocation of the Varyags".
    But what was really necessary to ask not only historians, but with great reason - ethnographers. Archaeologists are well aware that the Varangian component was. But she did not mix with the Slavic. That is, the Varangians were mercenaries, but settled mainly separately, they were not always allowed into the cities. So it was in Ladoga, so it was in Kiev under Princess Olga.
    And most importantly, before the call of Rurik, the Slavs, future Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, will already be well known to the Byzantines, Persians and Arabs.

    It makes no sense to speculate on names.
    But nevertheless, one more version of the origin of the word "Russian" should be indicated - the Dnieper in the Kanev region has a Ros tributary. So in the local museum, and not only there, they are convinced that it is from their toponym that the name Rus, Russia originated.
    There is something in this, for my beloved Novgorodians have long called themselves Slovenes (Slavs). By the way, the Novgorodians, who allegedly called on Rurik to reign over them, themselves showed that they were both warriors, and merchants, and first-class colonialists.
    If we consider the Russian-Varangian world as a kind of community, it turns out that Mr. Veliky Novgorod is the only state entity that survived in the Middle Ages and significantly expanded its possessions. It was the Novgorodians, and later the Cossacks, who also started as descendants of the free Novgorodians, who organized Russia from the Baltic to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. And about the White Sea, Grumant - this is obvious.

    But the fact that successful merchants and industrialists need military support is obvious.
    But for some reason, it is generally accepted that the one who is a warrior also rules ... This is very Western European ....
    But in Mr. Veliky Novgorod for the most part it was different.
    If you need examples - the fate of Prince St. Alexander Nevsky and his father.

    Again, by the way, to study the Tale of Bygone Years from a foreign source is something new ...

    Pay attention to how our outstanding contemporaries are called abroad - Kirpinikov AN ..
    In Russian:
    Brick workers, Anatoly Nikolaevich (1929-).
    Equipment of the horseman and riding horse in Russia IX-XIII centuries. [Text]. - Leningrad: Science. Leningra. Otdel, 1973. - 138 p. : ill .; 29 cm. - (Code of archaeological sources / Academy of Sciences of the USSR. Institute of Archeology. Archeology of the USSR. Under the general editorship of academician B. A. Rybakov; E1-36b).

    Even scientific references are falsified ... Rating in scientometric systems A.N. Kirpichnikov is underestimated by this ....

    But in general, interesting ... Maybe even useful. I hope that my comment will help someone and calm someone.
  • would
    would April 13 2020 14: 21 New
    +3
    wow, "no humiliation: they are ardent adherents of the Norman theory, on the Scandinavians you stumble in every paragraph ...


    So what? Where is the humiliation? For example, the British themselves such stages of their history as the British calling the Saxons to reign in Britain (doesn’t it remind anything?) And the terrible Norman yoke do not consider humiliation. Moreover! Few can argue with King Richard the Lionheart, a representative of the French dynasty who did not know English and Robin Hood, whose story is actually a story about the Norman yoke.

    And of course, one cannot help but recall the most popular woman in modern Britain - German Elizabeth II. And they sincerely love this German, as well as her German dynasty. And you are hurt by the theory that a thousand years ago the Scandinavians stood at the head of Russia, who Russified for several generations - already the grandson of Rurik was called the Slavic name Svyatoslav.
  • helvetic
    helvetic April 13 2020 17: 48 New
    0
    Your definition of history is from a school textbook. Exaggerating a little - today history as a science is a set of theories about what exactly could not have been, and what (in a certain range) could still be. At the same time, a separate problem is the very concept of "past" and chronotope in different epochs. In real life, historians have long been studying the text for its internal logic.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 April 12 2020 08: 28 New
    -8
    Since for some reason many readers of VO are very offended by the annalistic text about the “calling of the Varangians”, let's see how this event is described in the book by D. Nicolas.


    Well, since Shpakovsky is not a historian, but a historian-propagandist, and this is not the same thing, his task is to tell tales of official history, which he does. Do we need this English tabloid cheap, with stupid pictures, especially of the freak "Svyatoslav" in which just repeating the OI nonsense? But Shpakovsky's task is to acquaint VO readers with the best examples of Goebel's / Western propaganda.

    In the early Middle Ages, the Slavs were relative newcomers who continued to develop new territories even when medieval Russia was already created.


    all in a stamp, nothing new. Why repeat nonsense? And that would not be forgotten.

    These tribes included Votyaks, Vod, Ests, Chud and Komi or Zyryans.


    one of the methods of propaganda is to divide the whole into atoms, to place fictional peoples on the lands on which they never lived.
    For example, the same Estonians / Easterners, they came up with a good name for themselves, not in their own way, but in German they called their people. The people of Estonians / Estonians now have a population of one and a half million, and how many were there by the beginning of 2 at the time of this story ? Well, take the population census for 1959 and 1897 and see the demographic dynamics of these "peoples"
    -in 1897g-400tys. and the whole population, and not just Estonians.


    -in 1959-1mil.
    https://wiki2.org/ru/Перепись_населения_СССР_(1959)
    then we simply lower this line of reproduction into the past from the same angle and get that Estonians, as a people, are completely reset to zero at the beginning of the 19th century. And they tell us the 8th-9th centuries. Such is the OI.
    How not to recall that the city of Tallinn / Revel is the Russian city of Kolyvan, from the Russian word Kolo / Sun. When was it? It is absolutely not easy to find such information.

    As for the vocation of the Varangians to Rus. In the first place, the Radziwil Chronicle with this "Norman" sheet was simply pasted in. falsification list, as evidenced by the study of Fomenko and Nosovsky
    Secondly, there are other opinions about the Varangians. GDR historian Andrei Paul, examining old manuscripts in plain text, says that the Varangians came from the Wagria peninsula, and that they were Slavs of the earth. The Vagria peninsula is not correctly translated, it is correct to read Varia or Barium. the Varangians were precisely the Slavs Bars who came to Novgorod.
    1. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 12 2020 10: 00 New
      +8
      From the island of Buyan to the kingdom of the glorious Saltan I advise you to pay attention to the prevalence of the name Ut among the Western Slavs and, starting from this point, conduct your own investigation of the vocation of the Varangians (part of the mosaic of which you have already seen) and which I assure you will be extremely exciting, but what is most important will lead you not only to the unambiguous (having no alternative) place of their residence until a certain period, but will also reveal many philological "riddles for profane" genealogical and cultural ties of the peoples of the Baltic, as well as to some other no less interesting issues related to the great migration of peoples (actually compared with which the "vocation of the Varangians" is not a mystery at all) It will also be surprising that you will not need to use the "alternative authors" (which can discredit the results you have obtained to a certain extent) but you will undoubtedly have to use some "imported" sources (however, mail and a thousand years ago and long ago translated into Russian by such authors as Helmond Saxon Grammatik, etc.) I think special attention should also be paid to such things as "Ladoga ceramics" (the time frame of the main layer) and the activities of "Krive Krivaito" (in the context of the worldview although this may create some difficulties, therefore it is better to leave it "for a snack") At the same time, Arabic sources such as Ibn Dasta Ahmed ibn Fadlan, etc. at the beginning of the path can only confuse the researcher, but after the mosaic is formed, they add colors in response to the "secondary" passing questions As for "Vagriya" ("translation errors"?) Let's just say were the Slavs autochthonous in this territory? And this is a somewhat more difficult question.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 12 2020 10: 42 New
        -9
        Quote: awdrgy
        Because of the island of Buyan in the kingdom of the glorious Saltan


        Saltana / Sultana, and where did Sultan sit with us? In Tsargrad, where else, see the engraving "Van Klenk's Journey to Muscovy" in the net there is such, Alexei Mikhalych is sitting on the seashore with sea ships.

        Quote: awdrgy
        It will also be surprising that you will not need, well, "absolutely never" to use the so-called "alternative authors" (which may discredit your results to a certain extent)


        you should never be afraid of this, because you should not be afraid of the truth itself. Here, for example, Pyzhikov, a doctor of historical sciences, specifically states that the Russian people had the OLD FAITH not in the 9th century, but specifically the population of the Republic of Ingushetia in the majority was like Christian, but with all sorts of different strange rites in the 19th century. the clergy struggled to exorcise the old faith from the Russian people in the 19th century and even in the 20th century with terrible written laws. And the fact that they say that it was in the 9th century instead of the 19th century, this is already a falsification of history. Pyzhik, a doctor of historical sciences, echoes with Fomenko, who says that chronology is the main falsification of OI.
        It is true that ONE and the bad name "alternative" history only obscure our history and do not allow us to understand it.

        Quote: awdrgy
        Helmond Saxon Grammar

        here, here Andrew Paul, just wrote his work on his Saxon Gammatik chronicles.

        Quote: awdrgy
        let's just say whether the Slavs were autochthons in this territory? And this is a slightly more complicated question.


        this question will NEVER be resolved, you know why. Those who stand behind the OI simply do not need to open a new one. Here, by will of captivity, you have to take up history yourself and read the annals and draw conclusions.
        As for whether the Slavs were originally "Europeans" in Europe, here it is.
        Lille is a French city, formerly called RUSSELL on maps
        -Brussels, formerly called Brussels.
        -Paris is Parisian Lutetium i.e. lutichi city
        -Luxembourg is the city of Lutzenburg, the city of the Lutches.
        -Rona river - earlier called Rosna, tributaries of Pine and Don.
        -Russellon - French province
        -Rhine - The upper reaches are called Rusa.
        -Etruria is Etrusia, the self-designation of Rasena
        , as for the "Germanic" lands themselves, they are completely covered with Slavic place names, you probably know?

        1. awdrgy
          awdrgy April 12 2020 10: 52 New
          +3
          "Saltana / Sultana, where did the Sultan sit with us?" - That is why you need to pay attention to the time frame of the main layer of Ladoga ceramics, for oral folk tradition is still in some way a "spoiled telephone" and often uses modern terms to replace the lost (ceased be relevant) I'll leave the rest without comment Why? -Just so)
        2. Xenofont
          Xenofont April 12 2020 12: 06 New
          +6
          There was no sultan in Constantinople at the time described. The sultan appeared there in 1453 from R.H.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 April 12 2020 13: 33 New
            -6
            Quote: Xenofont
            There was no sultan in Constantinople at the time described. The sultan appeared there in 1453 from R.H.


            OI's biggest lie is the falsification of chronology.
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 12: 09 New
      +6
      Well, stop joking like that, I couldn’t get out from under the table for half an hour, as I recall, again I’ve got hysterical, I’m tired
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 12 2020 13: 35 New
        -7
        Quote: Icelord
        Well, stop joking like that, I couldn’t get out from under the table for half an hour, as I recall, again I’ve got hysterical, I’m tired


        you didn’t have to get out, this is your place under the table.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 14: 56 New
          +1
          So what about education like, answer, otherwise it’s clear
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 14: 58 New
            +1
            You are very funny, you write, write, quarantine, you don’t go to the circus
    3. Sergey Nemov
      Sergey Nemov April 12 2020 13: 58 New
      15
      Quote: Bar1
      The city of Tallinn / Revel is the Russian city of Kolyvan, from the Russian word Kolo / Sun

      Quote: Bar1
      Vagria Peninsula is not translated correctly, read Varia or Barium correctly. the Varangians were precisely the Slavs Bars who came to Novgorod.

      I read a lot of different things, but I didn’t see anything like this ...
      Do you believe that?
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 12 2020 14: 40 New
        -1
        Quote: Sergey Nemov
        Quote: Bar1
        The city of Tallinn / Revel is the Russian city of Kolyvan, from the Russian word Kolo / Sun

        Quote: Bar1
        Vagria Peninsula is not translated correctly, read Varia or Barium correctly. the Varangians were precisely the Slavs Bars who came to Novgorod.

        I read a lot of different things, but I didn’t see anything like this ...
        Do you believe that?



        actually, I refer to learned historians when I say this, as if you had fallen from the moon. About Kolyvan / Tallinn read on Wikipedia.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 April 12 2020 09: 23 New
    +1


    images from the church of St. George’s Cathedral in Yuryev-Polsky, only fully and not trimmed, like the Englishman.
    The inscriptions go to the column, the left column is not readable, the characters are not understandable, but on the right it says
    -ORGI, not George.
    1. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 12 2020 10: 46 New
      +8
      I think in this case it is necessary to pay attention to such things as the correspondence and the "consonance" of the names of the pagan and Christian traditions, and although I myself have not dealt with this yet, I dare to modestly assume that John and Vanya were originally different names of different peoples (perhaps, of course, and " intersecting "in the Neolithic era) The same parallel can be drawn between George and Egor (which, according to philologists, is his phonetic version)
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 12 2020 11: 03 New
        -4
        Quote: awdrgy
        I think in this case it is necessary to pay attention to such things as the correspondence and the "consonance" of the names of the pagan and Christian traditions, and although I myself have not dealt with this yet, I dare to modestly assume that John and Vanya were originally different names of different peoples (perhaps, of course, and " intersecting "in the Neolithic era) The same parallel can be drawn between George and Egor (which, according to philologists, is his phonetic version)


        Georgi = Egor = Georg? Everything may be, but it must certainly be justified.

        or the fact that the Dutch had last names - VAN Klenk for example, and the Germans had noble names in the background. Then
        -Van = Background = Ivan = John, quite logical.
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 12: 12 New
      +3
      Please answer, who are you by education?
      1. cost
        cost April 12 2020 15: 17 New
        +4
        Yuryev-Polsky

        The name of the city has absolutely nothing to do with the Poles,
        In the distant 1152, Prince Yuri Dolgoruky founded a fortress city on this place and "modestly" named it in his honor - Gergev (as evidenced by the Nikon Chronicle with an entry under 1152: "Grand Duke Yuri Suzhdalsky created the city of Gergev in his name Lay in Suzhdalsk "). Since there were several cities with a similar name, they began to call it Gergev-opolskaya, because it is located in the Suzdal opolye (Same chronicle, but already for 1238). Later, this name was phonetically transformed first into Yuryev-Opolskaya (Novgorod Chronicle in 1582), and then finally fixed as Yuryev-Polsky (Census of cities of Vladimir Province for 1796)
        1. cost
          cost April 12 2020 15: 53 New
          +4
          Quote: Bar1

          images from the church of St. George’s Cathedral in Yuryev-Polsky, only fully and not trimmed, like the Englishman.
          .

          Pavel touched on a very interesting topic. Yuriev -Polsky St. George Cathedral deserves its own separate article. And its researcher. Especially its high relief of individual figures and a thin carpet ornament that fills the free sections of the walls.





          Historians still argue about their riddle.
          Unfortunately, this is not so simple - the carvings and the original inscriptions are chaotically confused by the "restoration" of the 15th century.




          In 1230, the grandson of Dolgoruky, Prince Svyatoslav, having received the city of Yuryev from the father of Vsevolod the Big Nest, ordered to destroy the dilapidated church and build a new cathedral in its place, richly decorated with relief.
          This cathedral was so beautiful that it was subsequently called the pearl of Vladimir-Suzdal architecture, its swan song ...
          Two centuries later, the vaults of the temple collapsed, as researchers suggest, due to a construction miscalculation. In 1471 the cathedral was restored by the Moscow architect Vasily Yermolin, but alas, far from "as before". The height of the walls was sharply understated, the proportions were violated, the carvings were mixed up. The heaviness of the current building is the result of the "restoration" of the XNUMXth century. Subsequently, in the demolished annexes of the cathedral and in the nearby houses, "extra" blocks and slabs with carvings were found, which for some reason were not used by Yermolin; now they are presented inside the cathedral.
          Sergei Golitsyn's book "The Legend of the White Stones" (1980) provides the following description of the cathedral after the "restoration":
          "... So on the walls of the restored cathedral, instead of the strict order of the" Wisdom of God ", an unimaginable confusion turned out - the saint alternated with a fierce dragon, half an angel pressed against the dragon. Nearby was a baby reclining, and from above a terrible griffin bared its teeth, as if about to swallow a stem with a lily ".
          Thus, the current facades of St. George's Cathedral represent a "mysterious mosaic", "stone riddle", a giant stone puzzle ", which is not destined to be solved, so all that remains is to admire the skill of the carvers and marvel at their rich imagination! The walls of the cathedral, along with saints and angels, inhabit a huge number of amazing beasts ...
          photo 1 cathedral of st. George after the restoration of the 15th century:

          photo 2 the alleged initial view of the Cathedral of St. George. computer graphics of the Russian Academy of Sciences:
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 April 12 2020 16: 29 New
            -1
            Quote: Rich
            The height of the walls was sharply understated, the proportions were violated, the carvings were confused. The heaviness of the current building is the result of the "restoration" of the XNUMXth century.


            the fact that the plates with the image are installed very casually noticeably with the naked eye. The temple is most likely Old Believers, but adapted to the Christian, a cross on the top and inserted images with crosses, probably so.
            In their book, even Fomenko and Nosovsky drew attention to how disgustingly inscriptions were made on the tombs of Russian queens in the Kremlin’s Archangel Cathedral, as if they were scratched with a nail, this is obvious fake. So here.

          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master April 12 2020 19: 40 New
            +3
            Quote: Rich
            In 1230, the grandson of Dolgoruky, Prince Svyatoslav, having received the city of Yuryev from the father of Vsevolod the Big Nest, ordered to destroy the dilapidated church and build a new cathedral in its place, richly decorated with relief.

            I will correct you a little, do not consider it a bore. smile
            Vsevolod the Big Nest died in 1212, Svyatoslav from 1212 to 1230 changed many destinies, he sat in Moscow and in Pereyaslavl Russky (which is now Khmelnitsky smile ) In 1230, he finally settled in Yuriev, who he loved the most. And yes, he began construction.
            1. cost
              cost April 13 2020 15: 16 New
              +1
              Trilobite Master: I will correct you a little, do not find it a bore

              On the contrary, Michael. Your corrections are always in place hi
    3. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp April 12 2020 14: 25 New
      +1
      The letter G in the left column is the topmost. so sometimes they write on Orthodox icons, part of the word on the left, part on the right.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 12 2020 14: 44 New
        -2
        Quote: Ua3qhp
        The letter G in the left column is the topmost. so sometimes they write on Orthodox icons, part of the word on the left, part on the right

        show an example please.
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp April 12 2020 15: 44 New
          +4
          Here are some examples. In those days, spelling could do quite freely.



          In your image, if you read from left to right from bottom to top and get St. George
  • Vend
    Vend April 13 2020 09: 51 New
    0
    There are many inaccuracies and there are many falsifications, but there are also high-quality researchers among Western historians such as Thomas William Shor or Anatole Paul. And specifically in the text that suggested the car there are inaccuracies, for example, the Merya were not a Finno-Ugric tribe.
  • Ilya-spb
    Ilya-spb April 12 2020 06: 56 New
    +5
    Very good article!

    We can conclude that in the West they seriously approach the study of our history.

    And it is necessary to separate the historical science and the propaganda of all clickers.
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 07: 07 New
      +8
      Quote: Ilya-spb
      And it is necessary to separate the historical science and the propaganda of all clickers.

      Yes need. But not everyone wants to do this. People live by the principle of least effort. It is easier to write "they are all bad" than to look for who exactly and what is bad, and who is good. It may turn out that you yourself are no better than those you scold!
      1. cost
        cost April 12 2020 16: 13 New
        +6
        Good old VO is returning. good You can argue or agree with the author, but the work done by the Author and the design of the article are beyond praise! Direct reference article of the best times of the site. And I want to put for her, now a forgotten quality mark

        Thanks, Vyacheslav hi . keep it up
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 April 12 2020 07: 08 New
      +7
      We can conclude that real scientists, researchers take seriously, responsibly, such an important matter as the history of states, of humanity!
      There are cheats, adventurers! Where can we go without them, but the main perversions are born by people pseudo historians, at the behest of others or simply out of love for "art"!
      1. kalibr
        April 12 2020 07: 10 New
        +5
        Quote: rocket757
        There are cheats, adventurers! Where can we go without them, but the main perversions are born by people pseudo historians, at the behest of others or simply out of love for "art"!

        That's it!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 April 12 2020 07: 21 New
          +3
          As the world becomes "civilized", the more important is the history of mankind!
  • igordok
    igordok April 12 2020 07: 09 New
    +6
    Judging by the first map, Izborsk and Pskov, unlike Novgorod, did not enter Kievan Rus. And why is the top of the map not north, as usual, but northeast?
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 07: 46 New
      +5
      Quote: igordok
      And why is the top of the map not north, as usual, but northeast?

      Well, how can I know?
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk April 12 2020 10: 13 New
      0
      Quote: igordok
      And why is the top of the map not north, as usual, but northeast?

      This is the English "look" at the geographic map. As well as our story.
  • Amateur
    Amateur April 12 2020 07: 18 New
    10
    A Russian friend of mine, who had a good grasp of the acuteness of French humor, proved to the Frenchman that he knew nothing about Russia - neither the present nor the past.

    “You measure everything by your own yardstick,” he said, “and there is no other for you. So listen to a purely French story from "Russian life".

    "There lived a Russian family: a father - a peasant, his wife - a Baba and a child - Popov. They somehow go out to the Nevsky and see the tsar passing in a sleigh. Suddenly, a pack of wolves from around the corner: the sleigh is catching up, now they will tear the tsar to pieces!

    A terrible minute ...

    A man does not think: grabs the child Popov and throws it to the wolves.

    The king is saved. He orders to stop the sled, pulls a quarter out of the back pocket and calls the Man:

    - I pity you with vodka from my own royal pocket. Drink and enjoy with your wife Baba. Your deed is wonderful, your deed is great, your deed is almost worthy of a Frenchman. "

    The Frenchman, listening to this entertaining rubbish, started up by some of the Russian Parisians, was a bourgeois, and even a very respectable one, but one of those perfectly refined bourgeois skeptics who know many of their shortcomings and are ready to laugh at them (which, however, they are by no means does not incline to get rid of these shortcomings). He laughed heartily:



    Almost worthy of a Frenchman! Sumptuously! Just hit the spot! Well then what to demand from us?

    No, the "Popov child" is not hyperbole, and it was not for nothing that they joked about some French "historian" who allegedly wrote that Ivan the Terrible was nicknamed for his cruelty ... Vasilyevich.

    "Little Larousse" is a one-volume encyclopedic dictionary that is found in every French bourgeois family. According to the set of data given in such a concise text, the selection of illustrations and clarity of presentation, this is, in a sense, an exemplary short encyclopedia. Praise to its compilers, but praise with reservations. We have before us a typical product of French bourgeois thinking.

    Let's open not the last edition (the world influence of the Soviet Union finally forced the authors of the dictionary to revise something), but let's say - 1949. The preface declares: "The reader can be sure that he will find a clear and sufficient monograph about every event, every masterpiece, every country and every famous person." Is that so?

    Everything is correct about Ivan IV, but every word about Boris Godunov is a stunning sensation: "he poisoned Tsar Fyodor" (I), "committed suicide" (! And).

    About Lomonosov: "Russian poet and writer". And that's all.

    About Pushkin: "The Lyric Poet". Yes, lyrical and nothing more.

    L. Lyubimov "In a foreign land"
  • Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 April 12 2020 07: 26 New
    +9
    The statement, we note, is strictly scientific, since it is easy to verify that the author did not step back one step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of chronicles. After reading the whole book, you can be quite sure that it contains a very brief, concise, but nevertheless exhaustive description of the early history of the Russian state without any humiliation, as well as fantastic conjectures and distortions.
    - Considering that this is all "Armies of medieval Russia 750-1250" - "Army of medieval Russia 750-1250", i.e. the military history of Rusm for 500 years is presented on only 48 pages, of which the text is 32, including the table of contents, then ... as a result, we get a splint, albeit in a modern version. Particularly pleasing are McBride's drawings, very detailed and colorful, but for some reason I'm not very sure about 100% historical accuracy. Here is his drawing - Invasion of the Mongols. Galician boyar, Volyn militia with a crossbow; litvin warrior:
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy April 12 2020 07: 52 New
      +1
      Russian history in English. as a result, we get splint, albeit in a modern version. Especially pleasing are the drawings of McBride,
      I agree, more idiotic babble can not be found. And let them eat it. The main thing is that such Shpakov grant-eaters would not be allowed to make the history of Russia for our school on the basis of these pictures. angry
      1. kalibr
        April 12 2020 08: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        The main thing is that such Shpakov grant-eaters would not be allowed to make the history of Russia for our school based on these pictures.

        So already given! Two books are approved as additional reading books for the textbook for the 6th grade, by the way, together with the book of academician Aganbegyan. So our children and teachers read them and rejoice. Although not all, of course, why should everyone ...
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy April 12 2020 08: 45 New
          +4
          Two books are approved as additional reading books for the textbook for the 6th grade, by the way, together with the book of academician Aganbegyan.
          This is sad. request What stories does Aganbegyan teach us, and Hasan Huseynov, the Russian language. angryGreat specialists. Children should learn not to consider pictures, but to think and love their homeland.
          1. kalibr
            April 12 2020 10: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            What stories does Aganbegyan teach us, and Hasan Huseynov, the Russian language.
            Not a surname colors a person, but a person surname.
            1. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy April 12 2020 14: 56 New
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Not a surname colors a person, but a person surname.
              Right Huseynov glorified, or rather he glorified his surname, and Shpakovsky will soon become a household name. request
              1. kalibr
                April 12 2020 16: 38 New
                +2
                So you did not deserve anything better ...
          2. kalibr
            April 12 2020 10: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            This is sad.

            I would have read them before being upset and sad ... Otherwise, it’s strange, I didn’t read it, but I condemn it for one surname.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk April 12 2020 11: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: kalibr

          So already given! Two books are approved as additional reading books for the textbook for grade 6,

          Poor kids. The only good news is that for "additional reading".
          You would write novels on a historical theme. You would succeed.
          And in vain you are offended by me. You are a supporter of the "Norman theory", I do not accept it.
          We eat from different sources. For you, the "English source" is the apotheosis of knowledge, domestic ones are closer to me. You are boasting - "along with the book of academician Aganbegyan" (I can’t say anything bad about him - I’m not familiar with his works), but the works of Spitsyn, Pyzhikov, Kuzmin are closer to me. I will not list all of them, there is no need.
          For you, the authorities are Angichans, and I have relatives of Lomonosov, Tatishchev, Cherepnin, Chernykh ...
          = In the presentation, we note that it is strictly scientific, since it is easy to verify that the author did not deviate one step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of the annals. =
          And in our Russian historiography there is only "Norman theory" and no other?
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy April 12 2020 15: 12 New
            -3
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            The only good news is that for "additional reading".

            In vain rejoice. request Always rivers., You can make a monkey, and even raise the dough. And then the child, if the book does not bring, you can earn 3. Does mom need this? request And it turns out that pigs with their nickels undermine our education and make a rational person, grabbers, not remembering kinship.
          2. kalibr
            April 12 2020 15: 25 New
            +1
            You know, this is the first time I meet such a person who decides everything for me. Who TOLD YOU ALL THIS? Interesting? That I am a supporter ... I generally believe that there is no "Norman theory". There is a political problem sucked out of thin air and engaged by politicians. That's all! You do not know Aganbegyan's works, but Pyzhikov is closer to you ... Who told you again that the authorities are British for me? About the history of England and knightly armor? Yes! And with regard to our Russian history, we, thank God, have enough of our own historians. Moreover, I even laid out the covers of their books in my articles and a lot, but ... all the same "you are in awe of the West."
            [quote = Krasnoyarsk] [quote = kalibr]
            You would write novels on a historical theme. You would succeed.
            And in vain you are offended by me. You are a supporter of the "Norman theory", I do not accept it.

            And he wrote as many as three pieces, one another is better. It was published twice in Russia, one in three volumes in Germany, and one now on author.today. Come read, it will not ruin you ... And I do not take offense at you at all. I am only surprised. Why didn’t a person read my books, but declares them a priori bad (well, read it, and then hait!), And based on an article about a book by a British historian, that for me they are authorities. Then I co-authored 4 more books with him, and all because ... to improve their knowledge of us. You can also find them on the Web, download and read. Compare ... So here it is necessary to do, in my opinion, and nothing else.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk April 12 2020 19: 02 New
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              You know, this is the first time I meet such a person who decides everything for me.

              You flatter me. I did not deserve it.
              Quote: kalibr
              ... I generally believe that there is no "Norman theory".

              In this matter, neither yours, nor, moreover, mine, is considered.
              Quote: kalibr
              You don’t know the work of Aganbegyan, but Pyzhikov is closer to you ... Well, how so?

              Very simple. I do not compare them if you notice.
              Quote: kalibr
              Why didn’t a person read my books, but declares them a priori bad (well, you need to read, and then hait!),

              Wait a minute. What was your bad book you called? This is slander. Yes, I criticize your articles on VO and all. Those. what i read. Because a lot of them seem to me an unproven stretch. For you unquestioned authority information obtained from Arab and Western sources. But not all! And selectively, those that are beneficial to you. For example -
              = Ibn Fadlan, the Arab ambassador to the Volga Bulgaria in 922, talks about the mores and customs of the Rus who arrived on trade matters in Bulgaria. After the ritual burning of the deceased tribesman, the Rus left an inscription on the grave =
              But they didn’t have a written language, if you believe it.
              Quote: kalibr
              then hait!), and based on an article about a book by a British historian, that for me they are authorities.

              It is from your enthusiastic reviews of the British historian who told us the version of Russian history that we know from Bayer, Schletser and Miller. And still admire that they did not misinterpret anything. Why would he do that? She is already distorted by the above gentlemen.
              Quote: kalibr
              website author.today. Come read, it will not ruin you ...

              But thanks for that. I certainly read it. But if everything is in the same vein as the articles on VO, then it would be better not to.
              1. kalibr
                April 12 2020 19: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                But thanks for that. I certainly read it. But if everything is in the same vein as the articles on VO, then it would be better not to.

                This is a historical novel about the adventures of a Russian officer, a Japanese samurai and a Dakota boy in America in 1876. It's called "People and Weapons".
          3. awdrgy
            awdrgy April 12 2020 19: 33 New
            -1
            Currently, the accepted (dominated) tn neo-Norman theory (which really has a relation to the Normans only in the name and, in fact, like all theories, does not remove many questions associated with the ancient annals) In a nutshell, it denies the Norman theory of vocation, but does not deny the vocation itself Further, the actual opinions are divided as to where Rurik was from (various versions here are both Prussian and even Frankish, but the main one I adhere to is the Balt, it is also the South Balt or conditionally West Slavic, which also has its own "currents" and what is surprising, some "currents" are such that they suggest not a vocation but the arrival of the Varangians for a specific reason, that is, being within the framework of neo-Normanism, they actually leave it)
      2. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 12: 18 New
        -1
        Which one? Great tartaria with eternal and infallible dzhugashvili?
    2. kalibr
      April 12 2020 07: 55 New
      +6
      So after all, here all the sketches were made on the basis of specific ... finds, illustrations, photos. Well, the pattern on the shirt can be fiction, and everything else is oh. There is a description of the illustrations, you can see. And I gave sketches in some article, as Nicole painted them and indicated with arrows what color is where. And for the patterns I went to Kazaz specifically. Well, not only behind them, of course. And photo...
    3. kalibr
      April 12 2020 07: 57 New
      +5
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      as a result, we get splint, albeit in a modern version.

      Such a genre, there's nothing to be done. But better than nothing.
    4. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 12 2020 08: 12 New
      +5
      About 1,5 - 2 years ago, Shpakovsky published a small series of articles, something like an instruction for those wishing to write in Osprey, based on his own experience. One of the materials is devoted to the interaction of authors and artists who collaborate with the publishing house. Take an interest ...
    5. Hantengri
      Hantengri April 12 2020 09: 28 New
      +5
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      Especially pleasing are the drawings of McBride, very detailed and colorful, but about 100% historical authenticity, for some reason I’m not very sure. Here is his drawing - Invasion of the Mongols. Galitsky boyar, Volyn militia with a crossbow; Litvin warrior:

      What's wrong here? "Pleasing" umbons on shields with an elbow grip (apparently for beauty) and a crossbow bolt in the prince's shield, but otherwise, in my opinion, everything is in order. They even put "Yaroslav Vsevolodovich's helmet" on the prince's head, which is quite consistent with the rank and era. True, the Litvin on his head is not fashionable already in the 13th century, a four-part spangelhelm like a helmet from the Black Grave, but for a wild Litvin it will do. )))
      1. Marine engineer
        Marine engineer April 12 2020 10: 23 New
        +4
        “What's wrong with that?”

        Page C. Russian wars 10 - 11 centuries. urban militia in outerwear to heels.

        It is not clear why the foreigner painted him like that.
        Probably in order to make it more convenient for the militia to step on the floors of these clothes with their own feet and fall to meet the enemy?
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri April 12 2020 14: 43 New
          +3
          Quote: Marine engineer
          “What's wrong with that?”

          Page C. Russian wars 10 - 11 centuries. urban militia in outerwear to heels.

          It is not clear why the foreigner painted him like that.
          Probably in order to make it more convenient for the militia to step on the floors of these clothes with their own feet and fall to meet the enemy?

          1) If you take a closer look, you can see that the militia’s clothing floors just 15-20 cm lower below the knee, and therefore it will be extremely difficult to step on them.
          2) This contraption is not intended to be attacked directly in it, like the "warlord's" cloak.
          1. Marine engineer
            Marine engineer April 12 2020 16: 43 New
            +1
            Looked closely.
            The militia is drawn standing on the nose of the boat, in a cassock-like unfastened outer clothing, on the left hand a shield, waving an ax with his right and, according to the author’s intention, is about to enter into close combat in this “outfit”.
            Unlike the “comrades” standing next to him, the chances of “banging and catching” are great.
            1. Operator
              Operator April 12 2020 16: 57 New
              -2
              Oh, you are wrong - a Russian militia without a cassock, this is the end of the world (infa 100% of the folk history with the simple Russian surname Gorelik) laughing
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri April 12 2020 17: 31 New
              +3
              Quote: Marine Engineer
              The militia is drawn standing on the nose of the boat, in a cassock-like unfastened outer clothing, on the left hand a shield, waving an ax with his right and, according to the author’s intention, is about to enter into close combat in this “outfit”.

              What makes you think that he was going to Akaku? Maybe he just greets an acquaintance with the lads, or maybe he "drag in" the boyar ahead of him, because of a sudden personal enmity. The author's intention, in this case, is to depict the complex of armor and weapons as faithfully as possible, and some unnaturalness of the situation depicted is forgivable. You, after all, are not embarrassed by the fact that this rogue militia should not be near such respected people at all. Or that the "chief of the squad" did not take off his cloak before akaka, having everything
              Quote: Marine Engineer
              The chances of “crashing - catching”
              1. Marine engineer
                Marine engineer April 12 2020 18: 23 New
                0
                “To the chief of the squad” to remove the cloak, judging by the clasp, a second matter.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 12 2020 07: 32 New
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks!
    Although the canons are at least in the illustrations, the publication has departed! For example, depicting a classic Dakkar, instead of a Slavic padded boat!
    Regards, Vlad!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 12 2020 07: 37 New
    +3
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Nicolas’s book is somewhat reminiscent of a textbook for preparatory courses at the history faculty of Soviet times (I had one).
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 07: 51 New
      +5
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      Nicolas’s book is somewhat reminiscent of a textbook for preparatory courses at the history faculty of Soviet times (I had one).

      This is a series, Anton. Osprey ... very stringent requirements for presentation and scope. Three sizes 48 pages, 64 and 96 ... And 8 color pictures, 20-30 black and white, and now color. Thought on the tree does not spread.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 12 2020 08: 02 New
        +3
        I, Vyacheslav Olegovich, do not criticize, but compare the style of the two texts and find them similar.
        We must pay tribute to the brevity of the "Ospreyev" editions. More voluminous works of foreign historical scholarship are much more "burdensome".
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 08: 13 New
          +6
          It’s clear that you don’t criticize, I just explained why. A solid publication ... oh, there is often more reasoning and thoughts out loud than history itself. You read, you read ... you catch yourself thinking - when will it come to business ?!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 12 2020 08: 19 New
            +2
            You read, you read ... you catch yourself thinking - when will it come to business ?!
            Exactly!!! I can imagine what kind of torment to translate like that, is that why we have so little published such literature ...
            1. kalibr
              April 12 2020 08: 24 New
              +4
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Exactly!!! I can imagine what kind of torment to translate like that, is that why we have so little published such literature ...

              One of the reasons. "Water" will increase the volume, but also make the book more expensive. And who will buy?
  • knn54
    knn54 April 12 2020 07: 59 New
    +4
    A maximum of information in such a volume. Moreover, the publisher’s prejudice is completely absent. Thank you very much to Vyacheslav and David Nicolas.
  • paul72
    paul72 April 12 2020 08: 03 New
    +3
    It seems that the author is "breaking into an open door" from article to article.
    He painted a picture in his head and tries to convince us that the vast majority of the comrades are direct - there are adherents of the sect of Ren-TV admirers. And how let's fight them, well, along the way, how not to splash with cracked oil towards the blessed West.
    Impression - a children's sandbox performed by almost PROFESSOR.
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 08: 10 New
      +4
      Of course, Pavel, if the books of at least the same publishing house Osprey are your desktop books, then this is a huge breakthrough in information. I am for it".
      1. paul72
        paul72 April 12 2020 09: 00 New
        +1
        He did not have Osprey books on his desk.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 10: 06 New
          +2
          Sorry. Although among them there are better and worse, but it is a very powerful information layer. Something more than 500 of them came out, and 80% are very interesting. Nicolas alone has 40 in this publishing house.
          1. paul72
            paul72 April 12 2020 18: 04 New
            0
            Yes, yes, he would have remained ignorant, if he were not a good person from Cezuan (Penza).
            And then we read more and more Solovyov, Klyuchevsky, Presnyakov and those who are. But it was necessary, it turns out, Nicolas
            1. kalibr
              April 12 2020 18: 06 New
              +3
              Very good, Pavel, that you read them, wonderful. But everything is relative. Is not it? So it’s easier to understand what is good with us and what is bad with them. And vice versa ... Moreover, based on their own experience, and not from other people's words. Is not it?
  • Free wind
    Free wind April 12 2020 08: 33 New
    -1
    Our story is very difficult historically request , It was digging out of it all that was objectionable to those in power. I am sure that no one called Rurik, it is just physically very difficult to do. Novgorod existed, there were its rulers. Which of the rulers admits, I, I can’t rule. you come it, as time will be, even then, even now. Rurik was neither a king, nor a king, nor even the director of a large poultry farm, how could you know about him for thousands of kilometers that he was such a wonderful ruler? They sent a messenger with an offer to rule Rurik. According to the official history, we were not able to read or write, with what the delegation went to this Rurik, with what documents? And how to find him and where to look for him, all this could take at least 5 years, Novgorod at that time was not in the freezer. In my opinion, it was just a seizure of power by Rurik. Technically, it is quite capable of doing this. We came to the city as merchants, traders, looked around. made the necessary acquaintances, went to the prince at a feast, poured poison to the prince in wine, or in honey, and then the expanse was complete. Hundreds of options, seizures, coups, thousands in the history of the world, and we have a lot. Well, then the monks wrote what they were told. Writing existed before Cyril and Methodius, there are finds proving this, but officially there was nothing. Dear author, do you want to get into the Vatican archives - libraries? With Palm Sunday of all of you. do not sneeze.
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 10: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Free Wind
      Dear author, do you want to get into the Vatican archives - libraries?

      Getting there is not a problem. The problem is money, but I don’t have enough for it. And then ... I don’t know Latin in medieval, I don’t know Greek, I don’t know Middle French and English ... what will I do there?
    2. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 12 2020 20: 16 New
      -1
      The logic here is as it is, and the theory that Novgorod was not an independent territory de jure at that time. Circumstances forced the "conventionally metropolis" to take control of the "conventionally colony" (remote territory) directly in connection with the alleged impending "seam" (or as an option suppression of separatism on the ground) There are also some legends indicating such a possibility (about Vadim the Brave) And actually the Novgorod tradition of managing a certain circle of boyars (moreover, the boyars received the main income from trade, consider such "noble merchants" and or their descendants no longer engaged in trade) but invoking the prince (consider the roof, even if chosen in the future, but possibly uncontested at first) may be indirect evidence of a certain agreement with this "roof" and, moreover, approved by the common people and, as a consequence, at that time based on genetic and cultural kinship with this very "roof" However, we do not know such an agreement in the original Thereforeand the theory that the West Slavic squads banally carried out expansion to the east using the Novgorod territories as a bridgehead, we also cannot deny, and this is true in the sense that their path to the west and south was closed due to their rather dense settlement by foreign peoples who, in turn, led eastward expansion
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan April 12 2020 08: 49 New
    -7
    Well, almost exactly. The Slavs were wild monkeys. Svyatoslav was a Pecheneg on Monomakh, respectively Khazarin, clearly with Jewish roots but originally from Scandinavia from Germany. And initially, Monomakh, Svyatoslav and others lived on the blessed shores of the Potomac, there were many bison there and the Indians believed in the great white leader!
    This is the true story.
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 12 2020 08: 59 New
    +1
    According to maps, relations of peoples, chronology, interpretation of events - very, very unusual ...
    Well, it seems, Prince Gleb "measured" the Kerch Strait and "included" the eastern Crimea in Tmutarakan .... Who is right? The question is not so simple.
    Many thanks to the author for this "brain training". Especially interesting are the touches on the characteristics of the peoples of Eastern Europe.

    ps I hope our ideas about the history of England are believable.
  • Avior
    Avior April 12 2020 09: 03 New
    +6
    I looked at the drawing of Russian soldiers of the 10-11th century
    For some reason, the warrior of the senior squad grabbed his sword by the blade and held his fist firmly.
    He wants to cut his tendons?
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 April 12 2020 09: 47 New
      -6
      Quote: Avior
      I looked at the drawing of Russian soldiers of the 10-11th century
      For some reason, the warrior of the senior squad grabbed his sword by the blade and held his fist firmly.
      He wants to cut his tendons?


      this is the Scandinavian (upper figure), the Scandinavians are known as fools, rotten herring will get drunk, but in general the Angles see history.
      Mordvin is such a handsome man, a protein glitter, blackness around his eyes, with whom they painted such pictures, it is clear from whom.
      1. Avior
        Avior April 12 2020 10: 29 New
        0
        No, this picture is much lower, the eighth, or something ...
    2. kalibr
      April 12 2020 10: 20 New
      +2
      If this was originally a question for me, then I did not draw it, and I was not a consultant to this book.
      1. Avior
        Avior April 12 2020 10: 28 New
        0
        No, of course not for you, this is a rhetorical question.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer April 12 2020 10: 34 New
      +7
      Carolings were usually ground in the last third.
      Why grab it? most likely to be sheathed - the closer the grip to the center of mass, the more convenient it is to catch the sheath slot
      1. Avior
        Avior April 12 2020 10: 38 New
        +4
        Right, you're right, the grip carolings were dumb
    4. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 12: 24 New
      +4
      They don’t grind there, I say, as a person who has been practicing history for 25 years. fekhom.and collecting edged weapons
      1. Avior
        Avior April 12 2020 12: 37 New
        +1
        yes, thanks, I already know, and I know why
    5. Fat
      Fat April 12 2020 13: 17 New
      +1
      At least grab a sword like that, you won't cut yourself ... "The wrong system"
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. awdrgy
      awdrgy April 12 2020 20: 59 New
      +1
      Not sharpening will not allow, although the grip is really strange, especially given the absence of gloves On the other hand, there is such a phrase - "look who is in front of you and first cut your finger", which speaks of a certain grip of the sword (which can actually be observed on many old Russian miniatures) and which shows that professional warriors were not very afraid of "walking with their hand on the blade" near the guard And although in this case the guard is two-sided, it can in no way cancel the habits of the warrior. not corresponding to the time period
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 09: 53 New
    +3
    “Why do we lack food in the USSR and have the Food Program been adopted?” “But because Star Wars!” And that’s all! Everyman is satisfied. He received a simple and accessible answer to his consciousness and intellect. But he doesn’t read the Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine, and he never learns about everything that is written there.
    And the author of this untruth is broadcasting something about reliance on facts:
    it would be decent to always rely on facts and write: such-and-such a newspaper in such-and-such an article from such-and-such a number wrote such-and-such, and that is not true; in the book of such and such an author, such and such a publishing house, on such and such page it is written ... and this is a distortion of facts, politicians such and such, speaking there and there ... said the following, and this is a complete lie.
    What a food shortage in 1982 ?! Maybe the author will also remember the famine during these years? In Soviet propaganda, there was no link between the "Prod. Program" (the reasons for its adoption are far from what the author is trying to "rub in" with us) to SDI, if only because SDI was announced only in 1983. The Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine was published in the millions editions, had no restrictions on subscription and was in almost any library. A wish for the author to do what he writes about himself
    it would be decent to always rely on facts
    I hope the author does not try to convince us of the absence of falsification and deceitful presentation of the modern history of Russia using the example of one book about the Middle Ages?
    The statement, we note, is strictly scientific, since it is easy to verify that the author did not deviate one step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of chronicles.
    .
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 10: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      What a food shortage in 1982 ?! Maybe the author will also remember the famine during these years? In Soviet propaganda, there was no link between the "Prod. Program" (the reasons for its adoption are far from what the author is trying to "rub in" with us) to SDI, if only because SDI was announced only in 1983. The Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine was published in the millions editions, had no restrictions on subscription and was in almost any library.

      Vladimir, I lived then and stood in queues in Penza, and since 1985 I bought food in Kuibyshev using district coupons. Whether SDI was announced or not, "they" were always to blame for everything. The magazine "Aviation ..." was. And, by the way, it would be nice to have information in the USSR in general, and Miller Hildenbrand's book was and "The message ... of the government on Lend Lease" in Pravda. But only the bulk of the working people did not use these sources. So it was so (and now it is not only with us!) That information is in one place, and the people who just need it are in another. Osprey's books are also available to everyone. Everybody learns a foreign language at school and at the university. Many are interested in history. Who reads them? Units!
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 12 2020 11: 05 New
        +1
        and since 1985, in Kuibyshev, I have been buying food on district coupons.

        Once again: coupons are at the turn of 1980-90. In 1985, none of this happened. Here is a document.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 11: 12 New
          +4
          Sergei! I also have such for 92 years even. But in Kuibyshev, all the time I was in graduate school from 1985 to 1988, there were coupons for sausage and something else ... Probably butter. But I don’t remember. But I remember very well the sausage and I am sure that other "Kuibyshevites" also remember. They were regional. That is, you cannot buy goods in someone else's. And for half a month. It was.
          1. bubalik
            bubalik April 12 2020 11: 25 New
            +4
            ,,, in Kuibyshev (at that time already Samara) coupons were canceled one of the first in the country, in 1992. ,,, in Ulyanovsk, the coupon system lasted another 5 years.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 12 2020 17: 38 New
              +6
              in Ulyanovsk, the coupon system lasted another 5 years.
              Seriously???
              1. bubalik
                bubalik April 12 2020 18: 33 New
                +3
                Seriously???

                ,,, I to him: "Show me!" And he told me: "We, gentlemen, take our word for it." It was then that I was as flooded, as flooded ... laughing
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave April 12 2020 18: 43 New
                  +5
                  Sergei! In addition to jokes, the coupon system in Ulyanovsk survived until the year 97 ???
                  1. bubalik
                    bubalik April 12 2020 18: 45 New
                    +2
                    ,,, Well, not all goods certainly reached out, finally 96-97. Yes, he is now one of the poorest regions. sad
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 12 2020 18: 56 New
                      +6
                      To go nuts !!! In 91 he went into the army, coupons were everywhere and for everything, in 93 he was demobilized, there were no coupons at all ... But so that's it! In Ulyanovsk, by chance there is no chronocapsular anomaly ???
    2. kalibr
      April 12 2020 10: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      convince us of the absence of falsification and deceitful exposition of the recent history of Russia

      Once again, for this to be effective, examples are needed: AUTHOR, BOOK, PUBLISHING HOUSE, year. PAGE So far these are empty words.
      Look: a person finds such examples and not one, but several. Author, book, Publisher, year ... page. Based on this information, comparing it with our historiography, you can write an article for the American magazine American Interest. And they will print it. They won't publish it, even better - we publish it in a scientific journal. This kind of "fight" is effective. Empty verbal chatter - "they are bad" - no!

      And the history of the Middle Ages is not one book. A lot of them...
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 13: 44 New
        +3
        Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are busy with an important, but completely ungrateful business. For this, my gratitude and respect to you.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 15: 08 New
          +4
          Dear Igor, I know. But 37 years of pedagogical work in the school make themselves felt, this is one, two ... I often just toil with boredom. You can't write for hours every day just like that. And here you come ... "talk", and with renewed energy you go to work further. Can you imagine how a person is spinning on the hot, and there is nothing to answer, a minus acre - and this makes me laugh the most. As the Duke of Beaufort said in "Twenty Years Later": "It diversifies me!"
    3. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 12: 25 New
      +4
      A specific example, pliz
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 12: 26 New
        +3
        Vladimir be so kind
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 15: 44 New
        -1
        I do not understand, an example of what?
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 16: 00 New
          +3
          History flipping example
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 16: 20 New
            0
            Please:
            “Why do we lack food in the USSR and have the Food Program been adopted?” “But because Star Wars!” And that’s all! Everyman is satisfied. He received a simple and accessible answer to his consciousness and intellect. But he doesn’t read the Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine, and he never learns about everything that is written there.
            The food program was adopted in 1982, there could be no talk of any "shortage" of food products at that time, there was a shortage of some products, such as cervelat and caviar (conditional), due to their affordability.
            The SDI program in 1983 was only announced and was not tied by Soviet propaganda to the problems in the economy of the USSR, the Aviation and Cosmonautics magazine was completely accessible, and moreover, popular, not like TM, of course, but no lower than Science and a life". Well, the author's emphasis, however, typical of him, is on the low intelligence of the average Soviet man in the street, but this is not so, even now the average level of the Russian man in the street is higher than the American one, at least due to his outlook. In the 80s, it was even higher due to excellent secondary education and affordable higher education. So one did not have to go far for an example of the distortion of history. Even if not at a particularly high level.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 16: 27 New
              +3
              Yes? But I lived in those years and I remember that I was glad that dad the deputy minister flies to Moscow every month, brings canned food, tangerines, chocolate, sneakers, and in Tashkent there’s a sprat, seaweed, and strange chobots of the Fergana factory for sale
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 16: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Icelord
                Tashkent, current sprat, seaweed, and strange chobots of the Ferghana factory
                What, bread, meat, milk and potatoes were also brought from Moscow by plane? And for example, all kinds of melons, apricots from Uzbekistan and other Soviet Mills were brought to us. Also for happiness.
                Quote: Icelord
                But I lived in those years
                You are not the only one, I was 82 years old in 11, and I remember my life in Transbaikalia quite well. Tangerines yes, strictly on New Year's, but Vietnamese bananas dried or dried were often, all sorts of juices. In the market, by season, there was everything that was in the Union, there was not much money.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 12 2020 16: 48 New
                  +1
                  And I wanted chocolate, shrimp, adidas, and now it's all there, and then for the elite
                  1. Icelord
                    Icelord April 12 2020 16: 51 New
                    +2
                    You will never convince me that sending a person into space is more important than the welfare of the people
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 12 2020 17: 47 New
                      +5
                      Well, here you are in vain. Man must have a dream!
                  2. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 17: 51 New
                    +1
                    Now all this is there, but not everyone, even those who want, can buy. Also a kind of "chosenness". The whole difference is that then it was difficult to acquire because of financial affordability for the majority, but now it is the other way around.
                    Quote: Icelord
                    and then for the elite
                    Procurement of forestry enterprises, geological departments, various OPCs, "farts", sailors, EVERYTHING could be either "obtained" or bought, but at a greatly inflated price, so you strongly turned down about "chocolates for the elite".
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord April 12 2020 18: 10 New
                      +3
                      Well, you and I were little, and dad said, God forbid, this again
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U April 12 2020 18: 22 New
                        0
                        Quote: Icelord
                        and dad said god forbid like that again
                        Indeed, grace is now in Tashkent!
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord April 12 2020 20: 05 New
                        +2
                        Now quarantined, but not bad. In the areas there, yes, well these are their problems
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri April 13 2020 11: 32 New
              +3
              Quote: Icelord
              and in Tashkent, the current sprat, seaweed

              Well, why go too far? I also grew up in Tashkent. In the early 80s in the Ak-Tepe Grocery Store on an ongoing basis (i.e. appeared sporadically) only meat, cheese and smoked sausages, everything else was in the assortment, including boiled sausages, sausages, chocolate, chocolate sweets (from the "Urtak" factory to "Red October"), etc.
              Quote: Icelord
              yes weird chobots of a Ferghana factory for sale

              You mean these "sneakers"? It was great to climb mountains in them, they were strong. But for some reason I went to school, in 1983, in Tsebo shoes, bought in a shoe, in Navoi, at the old fair. And there was, oddly enough, what to choose from. )))
              Quote: Icelord
              and I remember how happy that dad deputy minister flies to Moscow every month

              "Open your mouths, rip off your clothes -
              Major boys are scratching down the street .... "(c) laughing
              We, the children of simple engineers from the "box", apparently just do not understand how you suffered. lol
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 13 2020 19: 26 New
                +3
                It's incredibly interesting to watch the butting of two "Russian Central Asians"! laughing
                My respect to both Igor! hi
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri April 13 2020 21: 33 New
                  +2
                  Quote: 3x3zsave

                  It's incredibly interesting to watch the butting of two "Russian Central Asians"!

                  Tashkentsev, Anton. For Tashkent is the same thing in itself, like Peter, and a native Tashkent citizen is the same "diagnosis" as a karenna maskvich. laughing
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave April 14 2020 07: 30 New
                    +3
                    I did not know about such subtleties. hi
  • Sergey79
    Sergey79 April 12 2020 11: 14 New
    -6
    .... One question for the author. How did the Slavs (fragmented, at the stage of early development, etc.) "put on their ears" several hundred years before the events described, the highly developed peoples of Europe? How did they (the slave people) crawl out of the forests and reach the Alpine mountains? The official history, reading the chronicles, concludes that the Mongols came (a terrible misfortune came ...) ... But on the same page it does not "see" that Russia was the strongest state (some were happy that they lived far beyond the sea, others were children they scare their own Russians, the Finns pay tribute, and still others hid behind the mountains) ...
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 11: 34 New
      +7
      Quote: Sergey79
      How did they (the slave people) crawl out of the woods and reach the alpine mountains?

      And why are they a slave people? Where is it from?
      And why doesn’t he see? The daughters of Yaroslav the Wise were married to the kings of France, Poland and Norway. Is this not a recognition of strength and power?
      1. Sergey79
        Sergey79 April 12 2020 11: 43 New
        -4
        Because "they were tributaries of the Avars" ...
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 11: 47 New
          +3
          And the Saxons were tributaries of the Danes, and so what? And then only those who lived in areas adjacent to the steppe were the tributaries of the Avar. And the Americans paid tribute to Algerian pirates until 1801. Among other things, the amount of tribute was about 20% of US annual income in the late 1790s.
          1. Sergey79
            Sergey79 April 12 2020 12: 02 New
            -4
            "then only those who lived in the regions adjacent to the steppe were tributaries of the Avars" Why not vice versa? Why do the Finns in the heyday of the Vikings pay tribute not to them, but to distant Kiev? On what basis were the "rattle mirrors" found in Siberia called Indian?
            1. kalibr
              April 12 2020 12: 10 New
              +4
              Quote: Sergey79
              Why do Finns in the heyday of the Vikings pay tribute not to them, but to distant Kiev?

              Because the level of centralization was higher with us. There are many konungs, we have one prince and his governors. The threat from us was more significant. So they paid.
              1. Sergey79
                Sergey79 4 October 2020 00: 22 New
                0
                Gorgeous explanation .... This is about the time of Vladimir Monomakh? Is our centralization higher? Turning ... Basically, I'm not surprised ...
                1. kalibr
                  4 October 2020 06: 58 New
                  0
                  It is good that you are reading our old materials. There is a lot of interesting in them.
            2. awdrgy
              awdrgy April 12 2020 21: 51 New
              -1
              This (about the Finns) is, by the way, a very interesting question, especially considering that they were not such simple guys as it seems. No wonder the Vikings prefer expansion to the West rather than to the East "Who burned Sigtuna?" And although the participation of the Curonians who had a strong fleet is assumed, there is still no direct evidence of this, but the participation of Karelians and Estonians is obvious- "Sigtuna once reached the ships. The city was burned and disappeared in the distance. They burned to the ground and many were killed. The city has not been revived since then. " The Chronicle of Eric
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 12 2020 17: 53 New
            +5
            And "Danish gold" has become a chrestomatin even in fiction.
        2. Sergey79
          Sergey79 April 12 2020 11: 49 New
          -2
          Whom in ordinary life are they going to beat with a crowd of a "sucker" or a strong guy? So it is with the Russians ... Almost always the crowd ... And the official history does not "notice" this. The war of Ivan 4 against Sweden, Poland, Turkey, the Krymchaks, the Livonian Order was called Livonian ...
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri April 13 2020 12: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Sergey79
            The war of Ivan 4 against Sweden, Poland, Turkey, Krymchaks, the Livonian Order was called the Livonian ...

            Is it not possible to call the "War (more precisely, the war) for the Livonian inheritance", for brevity, "Livonian"? And what have the Turks and Krymchaks to do with it? Two simultaneous wars are not necessarily the same war. Moreover, the Krymchaks are a permanent history at that time.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 12 2020 11: 21 New
    +3
    This is described in sufficient detail. There were textbooks for European schoolchildren, a standard set of our history: Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.

    But, on the other hand, how much foreign countries are considered in our school history textbooks is also very selective.

    And, I agree that the unusual location of the Map of the Settlement of Nations is simply striking.
  • lucul
    lucul April 12 2020 11: 35 New
    +6
    Voot - a competent article, the author did not work in vain.
  • Caretaker
    Caretaker April 12 2020 12: 22 New
    +2
    The statement, we note, is strictly scientific, since it is easy to verify that the author did not deviate one step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of chronicles.

    Maps illustrating the article depict what Western authors and Vyacheslav would like to see the history of the Slavs.
    Although, perhaps this is just a gap in education.
    In the North-West, as usual, they "forgot" Yuriev (1030-1224) “In the same year, Yaroslav went to a miracle, and defeated them, and set the city of Yuryev”
    Map of the settlement of peoples on the territory of the East European Plain, approx. 910 g

    Pskov (remember Igor, Olga), mentioned in the Lavrentievsky Chronicle in 903, does not appear on the map, like Izborsk (remember Truvor?). The Krivichites were not there either; the author of the article moved them to other lands.
    These are "bloopers" according to which the evidence is on everyone's lips. It makes no sense to enumerate further, otherwise the comment will come close in size to the article, and it’s a pity for the time to refute the pseudo-scholarly foreigners.

    Shpakovsky, like the author of the cited book, is too generously scattered by other people's "Kemsky volosts".
    Gaps in knowledge of geography and worship of Western authors are harmful traits that do not allow an objective assessment of the materials used.
    1. Sergey79
      Sergey79 April 12 2020 12: 40 New
      +2
      I completely agree with the comment
    2. kalibr
      April 12 2020 12: 50 New
      +1
      No two cities, so what? Malice, treachery of the English, belittling of history? It’s funny ... And why did you decide that I would like to see her like this? Here information is given to which 99% of VO readers would otherwise never have gotten their hands on it. So in criminal activity can be blamed and sellers of pencils. Pointed and in the eye!
      1. Caretaker
        Caretaker April 12 2020 13: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        No two cities, so what?
        Two major cities. But most importantly, a huge area is not included in the Russian state.
        Quote: kalibr
        Malice, treachery of the English, belittling of history?
        Exactly! The image of the real settlement of peoples at that time will "offend" modern Estonians, Latvians and Finns, if this is in the Northwest.
        Quote: kalibr
        And why did you decide that I would like to see her like that?
        From the fact that you characterize the obviously false statements "the author did not step back a single step from the data of our Russian historiography and texts of chronicles". In the previous commentary, examples of" blunders "were given that could not go unnoticed by your qualifications, that is, the article was deliberately distorted.
        Quote: kalibr
        So in criminal activity can be blamed and sellers of pencils.
        It is more appropriate to compare with the seller of sweets that contain poison. Moreover, the seller knows this fact.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 14: 00 New
          +3
          For the British it’s all such trifles that it’s just right to say - and so more than enough. Do you know more? For yourself? Well, that's great, it should be. And they don’t need more, especially within the framework of the 35 page text.
          1. Caretaker
            Caretaker April 12 2020 14: 11 New
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            For the British it’s all such trifles that it’s just right to say - and so more than enough. Do you know more?

            The problem is that you also know, but claim that it is "A comprehensive description of the early history of the Russian state without any humiliation, as well as fantastic conjectures and distortions."
            If the foreign authors you are promoting are "alternatives", then this is how it should be formulated, but it is more possible to call them falsifiers. Otherwise, the one who promotes them himself may fall under such a definition.
      2. Caretaker
        Caretaker April 12 2020 13: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        No two cities, so what?

        Looked at the map (910) more attentively. There are not "two cities", and half of the lands are not included.

        According to the annals:
        In 862g.
        Rurik - in Ladoga or Novgorod,
        Truvor - in Izborsk,
        Sineus - on Beloozero.

        On the map 910g. (according to the enemy version)
        Izborsk and Beloozero are not included in Kievan Rus.
        And you called this nonsense "strictly scientific", be ashamed.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 14: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: Caretaker
          On the map 910g. (according to the enemy version)
          Izborsk and Beloozero are not included in Kievan Rus.

          So what? Well not included. His copyright ... And mine to write as I see fit. Do you have a different point of view? Excellent! Write an article comparing the two like and ... that they don't match. This will be a very honorable and valuable work. Only fewer emotions, otherwise they are something that you read off scale. "The enemy version" ... Why so?
          1. Caretaker
            Caretaker April 12 2020 16: 06 New
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            Only fewer emotions, otherwise they are something you read off scale. "The enemy version" ... Why so?

            On your advice in the article, we will name the map and book of the cited author "a complete lie"suit?
            The facts cited in the previous comments, as you advised.
            So for those who accuse the "treacherous abroad" of distorting the historical truth, it would be decent to always rely on facts and write: such-and-such a newspaper wrote such-and-such from such-and-such a number, and it is not true; in the book of such and such an author, such and such publishing house, on such and such page it is written ... and this is a distortion of facts, politicians such and such, speaking there and there ... said the following, and this is a complete lie. Then it will be really valuable counter-propaganda
            1. kalibr
              April 12 2020 16: 14 New
              +2
              Quote: Caretaker
              "a perfect lie"

              This is not true. Bias, of course inherent in people, especially those who grew up in the "land of the Soviets", but not so much.
              1. Caretaker
                Caretaker April 12 2020 16: 27 New
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: Caretaker
                "a perfect lie"

                This is not true. Bias, of course inherent in people, especially those who grew up in the "land of the Soviets", but not so much.

                Earlier you called this lie "copyright", admitting that the information was unreliable.
                Quote: kalibr
                So what? Well not included. His copyright ...

                Decide - is it "not true" or a lie to which the author has the right?
                1. kalibr
                  April 12 2020 17: 54 New
                  -1
                  What you write is not true, what I write is true.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 12: 42 New
      +3
      Oh, stinkers, Harold was 15 years old when he served Vladimir, and in Norway his uncle would have slaughtered
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 12: 44 New
        +3
        Refugee he was at that time
        1. Operator
          Operator April 12 2020 13: 01 New
          -4
          British scholars and their local adherents however bully
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 13: 17 New
            +2
            Duc about Harold the Byzantines basically wrote, and if that Vladimir gave his sister to him as a wife
            1. Operator
              Operator April 12 2020 13: 26 New
              -5
              Orthodox Byzantines to British Sodomites not a decree laughing
              1. Icelord
                Icelord April 12 2020 13: 31 New
                +4
                And you were in England, I was, there are very few sodomites, they drink a lot, yes
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 12 2020 13: 34 New
                  +1
                  Here in Tel Aviv, yes a nightmare, the impression is that blue ones are more than usual
                  1. Operator
                    Operator April 12 2020 14: 15 New
                    -2
                    I was in Britain for the last time in 2008, though in the provinces, I did not see sodomites there. In Israel in 2000, the Sodomites in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Jaffa did not meet there then.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord April 12 2020 15: 09 New
                      +3
                      You were lucky in Jerusalem and really not, I wasn’t in jaffa, but in Tel Aviv it’s a nightmare, at least once a week in all clubs except Russian, the so-called special days, this must be remembered, otherwise we won’t
    2. Codexgigas
      Codexgigas April 12 2020 19: 47 New
      -1
      As Klim Zhukov said, to the peak of his power, the Khazar magnate is now like the USA, no one could compare in strength. And get in touch. Svyatoslav broke them when they began to be tormented by everyone and sundry, he just finished them off. Earlier, such as Svyatoslav with their retinue there could only bring water to the kagan.
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 12 2020 13: 42 New
    +4
    Science versus pseudoscience.
    I propose to add, as they say today, hype and rename the series, calling it "Shpakovsky against pseudoscience."
    I think such a volt will add fire to the comments of local representatives of this same pseudoscience: folkhistorics, novochronolozhets, turbopatriots of different degrees, orthodox Marxists and simply ignorant of history.
    So, Shpakovsky in today's article as a bogeyman presented the mouthpiece of malicious English and other Saxons who joined them - Osprey Publishing.
    What is this "beast".
    This is a publishing house located in Oxford (!) And specializing in world-wide and all-time military history. Since 1969, almost 2500 books have been published and today they issue 10-12 books a month. Moreover, books are published in special thematic series.
    We will go through very briefly on some series (turbopatriots - attention!), In fact, there are much more of them.
    Men-at-Arms is an illustrated guide to the history, organization, uniform, and weapons of all time.
    Campaign - battles that went down in history.
    Command - a biography of prominent military leaders.
    Essential Histories - each book is devoted to the analysis of military conflicts that have had a noticeable impact on history, from the causes to the outcome.
    Duel - a comparison of weapons from different countries.
    As you can see, the themes for "distorting" history are the most fertile.
    Now questions to the "opposition" generating foam in the comments.
    Is there such a publication in Russia and if not, what is the problem of organizing it and starting the production of similar literature in the main languages ​​of the world with its free distribution to all Oxford and Yale? No money? No mind I don `t want?
    What prevents us from using the already prepared site and offering Osprey Publishing books in the already existing series about the history of the Slavs, their outstanding victories, Russian military leaders and so on? Or were they offered and refused?
    What prevents Osprey Publishing from offering the series "Military History of the Slavs", "Outstanding Russian Generals", "Outstanding Russian Weapon Designers" and other "outstanding"? Maybe they were offered and refused?
    I look forward to specific, reasoned answers. Unable to formulate such an answer, I ask you not to mess up the information space and limit yourself to a minus.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 13: 48 New
      0
      I believe the motto is eternal. And so it goes
    2. Liam
      Liam April 12 2020 14: 01 New
      +1
      It’s very bad when such good goals turn into and look like (un) intrusive commercial advertising of a publisher to which the author has some relation
      1. Undecim
        Undecim April 12 2020 14: 02 New
        0
        I asked for answers on the topic. Your stream of thought is not interesting to me. I am very sorry that your status is so worthless that you can’t put a minus either.
        1. Liam
          Liam April 12 2020 14: 09 New
          +1
          What topic? Reprint of the text of the level of students of the 3rd grade of elementary school. Also printed there?)
          1. Undecim
            Undecim April 12 2020 14: 16 New
            0
            On what topic?
            I kind of wrote questions in Russian. What prevents you, the holder of knowledge and information above a 3rd grade student, from publishing your book on any of the above topics and putting shame on miserable Britons to print? The requirements for the authors of this publishing house are well known and there is nothing impracticable in them. And here you can talk about advertising and reprinting up to new brooms and does not require a lot of mind.
            1. Liam
              Liam April 12 2020 14: 33 New
              +2
              And why do I need it? I earn my living enough and so.
              Aquila non captat muscas)
              PySy. You have some kind of glitch on the pluses and minuses. A good part of your posts is devoted to this burning argument.
              He smiles that the chief critic of the site is absolutely intolerant of any criticism addressed to him)
              1. Undecim
                Undecim April 12 2020 14: 51 New
                +1
                We have decided on the main thing - there is nothing to say on the topic.
                Regarding the criticism addressed to me - yes for God's sake. I am not against criticism. The only point is the level of critics. That is, your criticism is uninteresting to me for the lack of information and an incentive for growth.
                And the fact that I sometimes pay attention to the minuses - alas, human stupidity still surprises me, although it’s time to get used to it already.
                1. Liam
                  Liam April 12 2020 15: 01 New
                  +3
                  Once again. The theme is determined by the author and not by you. And he defined it not only in this reprint, but also in many others, by Osprey. A selection of his statements on the topic: I write when and for what I get paid, can be found in almost any discussion. So the topic is commercial activity, which I spoke about. No one smells of noble enlightenment here, so there is no need to translate the arrows.
                  To discuss essentially this reprint of text for primary school children has the same meaning as a discussion of the letters of the alphabet from a literary point of view.
                  I don’t even know what is more stupid-minus or worry because of the minuses)
      2. kalibr
        April 12 2020 14: 57 New
        +1
        Quote: Liam
        to which the author has something to do

        Direct! And what of that?
      3. Engineer
        Engineer April 12 2020 15: 07 New
        +3
        The popularization of knowledge is one of the main tasks of science.
        Whether we like it or not, there is nothing better than Osprey in popularizing history. He reads about Roman legions, takes up Peter Connolly, and even Caesar with Tacitus. It won’t be taken. Although the Etruscans will not be attributed to the Russians.
        1. Liam
          Liam April 12 2020 15: 18 New
          +5
          The audience of the site for the most part is over 40. And I still decently lowered the bar. The texts for elementary grades are clearly not for such an audience. already in the know, but for those who did not want to-too late.
          Whoever wants to popularize and bring light to the masses writes just an article on a topic, and not an advertising booklet. There is a significant difference between the article on the use of soap for hygiene and the use of soap Ariel for hygiene.
          A person earns money by this business, I see nothing wrong with that. I see bad things in rudeness with respect to those who note this fact.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer April 12 2020 15: 38 New
            +3
            The audience of the site for the most part is over 40

            At the moment, VO is a media portal focused on the maximum coverage of the entire audience. Your cap. You make a mistake surviving perceiving primarily those who regularly WRITES here. Although the bulk are irregular readers.
            .
            By 40+ years old, who wanted to know already, but for those who did not want to, it's too late.

            And I don’t think so. At 40+ people get on a snowboard. If someone reopens the story I won’t be surprised and I am sure there are such.
            If a schoolchild or student of a non-historical university searches does not find a VO resource and from there learns about Osprey, this is definitely good.
            PS They didn’t tell us at school about lamellars, carolings and loriks segmentates. If you had it differently then you were lucky.
            1. Liam
              Liam April 12 2020 15: 53 New
              +3
              And I believe that such a statement of the question is a demagogic device that would be ennobled. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
              The chances that a student thirsty for historical knowledge will draw inspiration on this site are incomparably less than the very real and observed degradation of the level of presentation and discussion of topics.
              A special piquancy is that comrades Undich and Caliber are in the forefront of crying about the level of degradation. On my collective farm this was called intellectual hypocrisy and the duty of a decent person to stigmatize such behavior.
              There are pianists here, shooting at which is a waste of bullets. A caliber can do better, but brazenly hacked lately)
              1. Engineer
                Engineer April 12 2020 16: 10 New
                +3
                My first appearance on the site was a run over E. Vashchenko about the role of the Slavic element in Przeworsk culture. Rough enough hitting. Pretty quickly, I realized that professional historians, issuing original content on a resource where people write personalities like Samsonov or copy-paste of other people's articles - unequivocal benefit with all their personal and professional flaws and quacks.
                We are on a resource where a huge if the bulk of the writers calls Europe a geyropka, citizens of one neighboring country pigs and two-handed dragging on portraits of baleen Georgians and bald mingrelians. Where with a bang go articles about traitors - Belarusians and all other game.
                And here you explain for the intellectual hypocrisy of a couple of users. Sorry, but you misplaced priorities and emphasis as for me.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim April 12 2020 19: 40 New
                  +4
                  Here is the text! Brilliantly! I join if you do not mind.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer April 12 2020 20: 43 New
                    +3
                    I do not mind of course.
                    User Liam is partially right when he talks about lowering the level of submission and discussion of material in historical articles. But in factlevel of discussion is our level too.
                    You can dress up as d'Artagnan performed by Rzhevsky from a famous anecdote.
                    And you can do something. The problem of today's discussion is too much ideology and presets and too little history. The most sensible remark was about the map. I also tried to correlate the description of Svyatoslav and his image with MacBride. The text of Deacon Kaloki is clearly familiar to him, otherwise where did the white clothes and earring come from? And at the same time, a clear blunder with a mustache and beard. Where did such liberties come from? And most importantly, why ?. Is the English translation so different?
                    You could also check the hilt of swords according to Petersen-Kirpichnikov for compliance with the era.
                    And make a collective summary on the amount of posts in the style of "Mr. Shpakovsky, please carefully select the material for publication, or if you please do detailed author's comments ". We already have enough of the writers of the articles, whose preparations have to be corrected. This would be constructive in my understanding
                    Instead, the comments turned into a showdown of communal neighbors. Moreover, on topics far from the topic of the article.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim April 12 2020 21: 17 New
                      +3
                      I join again !!!
                    2. Liam
                      Liam April 12 2020 21: 49 New
                      +4
                      The level of discussion is set by the author by the level of publications. There are publications that are discussed and the participants will learn new things. Moreover, an academic level is not necessary for this. Sometimes a clumsy drawing with a non-athletic figure of a fighter is enough). And people google about anthropology, medicine, diet, weapons, military affairs, blow dust off the tomes of Tacitus and more.
                      And there’s a conditional reprint of the multiplication table with a claim to discuss the level of the symposium on Poincare’s theory. This is called hacking by excuse, which happens worse for others. There is my correct opinion and whoever disagrees is the one minus ignorant and in general in this world there are 80% of idiots and 20% of smart ones in which I personally determined myself and my friends). This is an eternal disease of the Russian pseudo-intellectual who pretends that the people would grab everything, and then lamented that this people so refers to the intelligentsia)
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim April 12 2020 22: 10 New
                        +2
                        In general, you can agree. Although the level of discussion, as for me, is determined by how interesting the topic is to the discussion and, accordingly, their level of knowledge in the topic.
                        As for the level of publications, they obviously correspond to the current level of the site and the main part of its audience. After all, this process is interconnected. And for most of the audience today the content of the article in the topic "History" is secondary. The main thing is holivar. Articles in which there is no reason to throw a well-known substance at each other and at the author collect a minimum of comments from those who are really interested in the story.
                        But the topics where this opportunity is provided, collect hundreds of comments, mostly from the topic of the article far.
                        Some authors in their articles include history only in the title. And then - solid manure. And the people hawala, already the fur coat is wrapped. And the pseudo-intellectuals here are not seemingly to blame. After all, they do not force feed.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam April 12 2020 22: 42 New
                        +2
                        Most of the interesting discussions here, very rarely relate directly to the topics of the article. It usually starts with some detail and goes into an avalanche of various intellectual battles. But for this to happen, the author must be honest with his work, even if it is full of errors, absurdities, etc. They are, in principle, useful because they allow discussers to show off erudition to the best of their abilities. And everyone is happy, the author gave up the fruit of creative torment, readers amused their ego and killed their free time, the site was provided with the necessary traffic.
                        And when the author frivolously treats readers and feeds them with scraping over the barn, there is nothing left to do but discuss the author, for lack of a better one.
                      3. Undecim
                        Undecim April 12 2020 23: 04 New
                        +1
                        Didn't today's article, with all its shortcomings, provide opportunities for, as you say, intellectual battles? There would be a desire. But practically from the first comments, the topic of the article was forgotten and the usual mantra about "distortions", "grants", the identity of the author and the like was included. At the same time, no one bothers themselves with argumentation.
                        It gets ridiculous. In the "News" section, under a note about Cosmonautics Day, the comrades in all seriousness broadcast that in "their history" the Americans were the first to fly into space, and they generally keep silent about Gagarin. This is a battle!
                        Unfortunately, today the site is not replete with qualified articles in any of the sections.
                        "Novosti", "Analytics", "Opinions" are a continuous darkness. "Weapons" and "History" are somehow still supported by individual authors, even who are hackneyed. Samsonov and Ryabov will stay, then we will discuss!
                      4. Liam
                        Liam April 13 2020 00: 11 New
                        +3
                        Well, if the battles did not light, it means a weak article. You can’t attribute everything to the quality of the audience.
                        As for the example with the day of cosmonautics, my opinion is that the worst thing that can be done is to start battles with the public who writes this. They actually achieve this. Ignor of this kind of "Persians" is the best remedy. Moreover, these are mostly trolls and argue with them- just feed them. Without attention they quickly disappear. There are enough reasonable Persians on the site in a conversation with whom you can convey your opinion in any section
                      5. Undecim
                        Undecim April 13 2020 01: 35 New
                        +2
                        Okay, see you under a strong article with interesting discussions.
  • Engineer
    Engineer April 12 2020 14: 32 New
    +5
    I have an ambivalent attitude towards Osprey. On the one hand, the declared thoroughness in the image. On the other hand, hard-to-explain blunders out of the blue.
    In general, I will say this - this is very decent material to start familiarity with the topic.
    Well, funny pictures. A very great achievement of Osprey - they established a corporate identity and a visual standard to which authors of graffiti often equate and try to surpass
    You can talk about bloopers for a long time
    We recall the description of Svyatoslav by Leo Deacon
    Sfendoslav also appeared, sailing along the river in the Scythian boat; he sat on oars and coffins, along with his entourage, no different from them. Here was his appearance: of moderate growth, not too tall and not very short, with thick eyebrows and light blue eyes, snub-nosed, beardless, thick, excessively long hair above the upper lip. His head was completely bare, but on one side it hung clack hair - a sign of nobility of the genus; strong neck, wide chest and all other parts of the body are quite proportionate, but he looked moody and wild. In one ear he wore a golden earring; abouton was decorated with a carbuncle framed by two pearls. His robe was white and differed from the clothes of his close ones only by a noticeable purity.

    We look at the McBride drawing in the article.
    Actually, I don’t understand where he got the mania for drawing Slavs with braids.

    This picture was taken apart in more detail earlier. On it is more wrong than true as for me.
    Fortunately, there are other artists in Osprey.
    Nevertheless, I believe that with the popularization of history, the main task Osprey copes with at least four
    1. Undecim
      Undecim April 12 2020 14: 39 New
      +1
      The Osprey Publishing level is a separate issue. They do not pretend to be "academic". The idea itself is discussed and the question arises - why a ready-made and well-developed idea is not used? Who is preventing you from using a ready-made site?
      1. Engineer
        Engineer April 12 2020 14: 47 New
        +2
        I didn’t understand ready site - Is this about Osprey himself? Well, Russian-language authors use it, you yourself know. Ours are printed there.
        Why did not create our domestic counterpart? It seems clear.
        1. Book business is going through hard times.
        2. Book publishing in Russia is unprofitable. Infa from the author on a historical topic (aviation) a conversation a month ago
        3. "Osprey-like" books are published in our country:
        https://www.livelib.ru/author/486610-vladimir-shikanov
        Almost complete analog. Why have such sites still not become well-known at least domestically? Well, this is a business, a complicated thing.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim April 12 2020 15: 25 New
          +5
          Ours are printed there.
          I had in mind a specific moment - a discussion about the falsification of the history of the Slavs, Russia, the USSR in the West. Are they being printed?
          Book publishing in Russia is unprofitable
          And where is the role of the state? And then we complain about falsification of history, but it is not profitable to fight them. Paradox?
          In addition to book publishing, there are many other ways, the same DISCOVERY CHANNEL is watching the whole world. Someone tried to imagine something similar?
          1. Engineer
            Engineer April 12 2020 15: 31 New
            +5
            And where is the role of the state?

            God forbid. Where there is a state, there are imposed concepts and ideology. I still lacked the "Orthodox" and "patriotic" Russian Osprey, agreed in the AP.
            same DISCOVERY CHANNEL

            Someone tried to imagine something similar?

            They tried. Tsagrad TV, Star. I think personally you will only look at this under the threat of execution.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim April 12 2020 15: 35 New
              +4
              Based on your comments - it turns out - a dead end. To scold - we scold, but we cannot oppose anything worthy.
              1. Engineer
                Engineer April 12 2020 15: 45 New
                +4
                The discussion is well underway, but more in a specialized academic, rather than media, space. The very same anti-Normans are printed to themselves. Sometimes something goes through the wide media. Why a small resonance is obvious. there is no truly social demand for anything truly historical. And the level of knowledge of a wide audience fell so low (or maybe did not fall, but always was) that people simply do not understand what fuss is about.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim April 12 2020 15: 50 New
                  +5
                  there is no truly social demand for anything truly historical. And the level of knowledge of a wide audience fell so low
                  Here I completely agree with you. Moreover, the state is not interested in creating such a demand and raising the level of knowledge, because then it will become difficult to use history for propaganda purposes, and use the image of an external enemy for the same purposes.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer April 12 2020 15: 58 New
                    +5
                    Here I completely agree with you.

                    So, we read Osprey, as before)
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim April 12 2020 16: 02 New
                      +2
                      So, we read Osprey, as before
                      For informational purposes only. This is not the same level.
                    2. Engineer
                      Engineer April 12 2020 16: 11 New
                      +5
                      So we read, but having inserted a monocle and with a condescending grin to their next attempts)
                    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka April 12 2020 21: 03 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Engineer
                      So we read, but having inserted a monocle and with a condescending grin to their next attempts)

                      Quote: Undecim
                      So, we read Osprey, as before
                      For informational purposes only. This is not the same level.

                      If serious! I would like to have a similar selection in my library, but in Russian!
                      Having been carried away by history for a long time, he was convinced that there are no works without flaws !!! Even such gurus as Klyuchevsky and Rybakov are mistaken. However, a head is needed for this, so that I think - to think and separate the grains from the hymen !!!
                      In essence, the work of E. Vyashchenko - about the Slavs, is our little Osprey. The drawings are gorgeous, the presentation is solid and thorough !!!
                      By the way, about the banality of topics in history! I’ll smile at my colleagues, literally on Friday in the service of two colleagues for 40 and for 30 years I told about the history of the Bashkirs! Alas, 40+ is not an axiom of knowledge and experience, people live by different interests and history is not always at the edge of the corner! But this does not mean that people do not want or do not want to know the past. It's just that everything has its time, and the popular publication, another incentive to get carried away with it!
                      Regards, Good night, everyone!
                      P.S. Sometimes comments are no less informative and capacious than the author’s article !!!
                    4. Engineer
                      Engineer April 13 2020 10: 36 New
                      +2
                      I would like to have a similar selection in my library, but in Russian!

                      Ospreevsky The Swiss at War and Greece and Rome at War Connolly downloaded in good quality encouraged me to remember English in due time and then improve it.
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave April 12 2020 20: 41 New
                  +2
                  I doubt very much that Osprey originally envisioned something different.
                3. Undecim
                  Undecim April 12 2020 20: 52 New
                  +4
                  It was originally founded in 1969 by tea maker Brooke Bond to publish books on military aircraft. The company put pictures in the packets of tea. They enjoyed success with airplanes and the company decided to develop success. Naturally, the format was designed for the "average" consumer - a maximum of pictures, the required minimum of text.
                  But the selection of information was taken seriously from the very beginning.
                  Today they have 500 episodes.
                4. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave April 12 2020 21: 06 New
                  +3
                  But the selection of information was taken seriously from the very beginning.
                  Did I doubt it?
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 12 2020 20: 50 New
    +4
    "You will watch this only under the threat of execution." I was led to believe that Constantinople was an "independent patriotic channel", but I looked - an analogue of "Dozhd". Their task is to collect all sorts of nonsense. I am intimidated by the moderators and so put it
    1. Engineer
      Engineer April 12 2020 21: 04 New
      +4
      analogue of "Rain"

      My impression is analog, but with a change of poles. Plus to minus. Or you are very radical)
      Unfortunately, we do not instill a culture of discussion in the scientific and semi-scientific community. And the media do not set appropriate standards. As a result, on the screens of Piglets on YouTube Zhukov. This is our mainstream.
      In science, no better. I honestly lean more towards Norman theory, but Messrs. Klein and the company are completely bronzed and no longer want to listen. And in general, they behave as if everything was decided once and for all. With all due respect, this is a very dangerous and harmful position for history.
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 21: 22 New
      -1
      Dear Dzhugashvili, do you like it?
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild April 13 2020 17: 27 New
        +2
        Junior lieutenant, I'm sorry that I mock, I do not like rudeness and arrogance, but now it's a sunny day and a good mood. IceIord. You haven’t made a lot of mistakes: Vladkub is bastard of Stalin, but a Leninist. Stalin has certain merits, but I have a cool attitude towards him.
        Why did you decide that I am a Stalinist?
  • Icelord
    Icelord April 12 2020 15: 28 New
    +3
    Opprey books are still not scientific, but scientifically popular, for general reference
    1. Engineer
      Engineer April 12 2020 15: 49 New
      +3
      Still, I think that with popularization of history - the main task Osprey copes at least four
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 15: 56 New
        +2
        I agree to cope with you
        1. Engineer
          Engineer April 12 2020 15: 57 New
          +3
          Then everyone has more ospreys - good and different)
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka April 13 2020 04: 26 New
      +4
      And we have gaps with the popularization of history. More precisely, there is a society’s request for history, but the cat has cried for cheap, digestible and interesting sources! Here are the masses and draw, which is enchanting and lies on a surface, and this, alas, is mainly "chronic" !!!
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 13 2020 14: 56 New
        +1
        I don’t really imagine that some analogue of the popular works of Sytin’s publishing house will now appear.

        And the release of the children's encyclopedia "Avanta +" very clearly sets ideological accents.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild April 13 2020 17: 38 New
          +2
          Colleague corsairs like Sytin are rare. Encyclopedia: "Avanta" I somehow did not come across. To be honest, I have not bought books for many years (funds do not allow) and there are many different books on the Internet
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 April 13 2020 18: 40 New
            +1
            Yes. There is a question of consistency of presentation and breadth of coverage.

            Everyone, probably, has his own selection - inside.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 12 2020 18: 16 New
    +5
    Bravo, Victor Nikolaevich! Just bravo !!!
  • Force multiplier
    Force multiplier April 12 2020 14: 10 New
    +3
    Osprey is still for "a wide range of readers", especially children and adolescents. There are high-quality works in their various series, but mostly it is consumer goods and overt propaganda and unobtrusive imposition of a "correct" view of the past.
    D. Nicolle wrote several works for Osprey on the Arab conquests and crusades. So "Western" readers suspected him that he secretly professes Islam, since they were written with open sympathy for the Arabs, the idea of ​​their cultural and civilizational superiority over the Europeans is gradually being carried out. Here is a review for his book about the Battle of Yarmouk, for example.

    Of course, Nicolle is not a Muslim at all, but simply writes from the point of view of promoting "universal" discourse and multiculturalism.
    And this man writes about the history of Russia, and his narrative coincides with the official version. This is not just an alarm bell, it is a roaring siren
    1. Caretaker
      Caretaker April 12 2020 14: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      And this man writes about the history of Russia, and his narrative coincides with the official version.

      Doesn't match, take a look at the cards. This is banal falsification.
      1. Force multiplier
        Force multiplier April 12 2020 14: 41 New
        +2
        He hardly drew the cards himself, it is rather a question for the illustrator or for the source from where they were taken. Did the publisher distort the presentation of the graphic material? Certainly
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp April 12 2020 14: 13 New
    +3
    Quote: Korsar4
    And, I agree that the unusual location of the Map of the Settlement of Nations is simply striking.

    Projection Features.
    Here's an example of a map of Europe from the Mercator Atlas edition of 1595, there is a similar projection.
    Moreover, the prime meridian passes through Iceland.
  • Operator
    Operator April 12 2020 14: 28 New
    -2
    Quote: Caretaker
    you characterize clearly false statements "the author did not deviate one step from the data of our Russian historiography and the texts of the chronicles." In the previous commentary, examples of "blunders" were given that could not go unnoticed with your qualifications, ie the article contains a deliberate distortion of facts

    The author of the article can only be thanked for "ripping off the veils":
    - a visual demonstration of the cesspool of British historiography;
    - disclosure of the source from where Russophobes derive knowledge on the history of Russia.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 15: 30 New
      +1
      Oh my God, do they need this in England? Well, how small are you
      1. Operator
        Operator April 12 2020 15: 38 New
        -4
        The British have a birth injury: the British Empire was flushed down the toilet plus the former British colony, and now the US Anglo-Saxon style icon has entered the peak - and all this despite the fact that the permanent Anglo-Saxon geopolitical adversary Russia is alive bully
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 15: 47 New
          0
          What are you saying, Britain has no enemies, and allies too. And backward Russia wasn’t exactly like that, probably not France
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 15: 51 New
            0
            USSR a separate difficult question
          2. Operator
            Operator April 12 2020 15: 53 New
            0
            Now, the provincial, peripheral, breathable frankincense (in the sense of the separation of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar) really has no enemies.

            And Russia directly had a hand in this - by destroying the British Empire as part of the decolonization process, of course.

            As for the lack of friends in future England, you know better.

            Abyd, yeahhhhhhh laughing
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 16: 12 New
              0
              Yes, in principle, I do not care, as the British say
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp April 12 2020 14: 31 New
    +4
    Quote: Bar1
    and the Germans had noble families in the background

    Von is not a last name. and the prefix to the surname is from.
    Clarification of the place owned by this gentleman.
    Let's say Von der Leyen famous last name
    Leyen is a sovereign principality that existed from 1806 to 1814 on the territory of Swabia, an enclave among the lands of the Grand Duke of Baden.
    Suppose, if a certain Petro owns the village of Semenovka, then in the German manner his last name may sound Petro von Semenovka, and in Russian, Petro Semenovsky. laughing
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 April 12 2020 15: 37 New
      -6
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      Quote: Bar1
      and the Germans had noble families in the background

      Von is not a last name. and the prefix to the surname is from.
      Clarification of the place owned by this gentleman.
      Let's say Von der Leyen famous last name
      Leyen is a sovereign principality that existed from 1806 to 1814 on the territory of Swabia, an enclave among the lands of the Grand Duke of Baden.
      Suppose, if a certain Petro owns the village of Semenovka, then in the German manner his last name may sound Petro von Semenovka, and in Russian, Petro Semenovsky. laughing


      and von Bismarck owned the village of Bismarck, and von Moltke the village of Moltkovka is cool ...
      1. Ua3qhp
        Ua3qhp April 12 2020 16: 36 New
        +6
        Full name Otto Eduard Leopold Fürst von Bismarck-Schönhausen, Herzog zu Lauenburg
        Bismarck is a city in Germany, in Saxony-Anhalt. It is part of the Stendal district.
        Schönhausen is a municipality in the district of Stendal in Saxony-Anhalt in Germany.
        Lauenburg (German Lauenburg, n.a. German Loonborg) is a city in Germany, in the land of Schleswig-Holstein, in the past - the capital of the Duchy of Saxe-Lauenburg.
        This is about Bismarck - the owner of the castles of Bismarck, Schoenhausen, the Duke of Lauenburg.
        Nice pedigree. You can also search about Moltke.
        1. kalibr
          April 12 2020 17: 51 New
          +3
          What are you proving to him? He is an ignoramus!
      2. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 17: 56 New
        +3
        Bismarck owned the Bismarck castle, as did the Moltke
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 12 2020 15: 02 New
    -2
    Quote: kalibr
    I would have read them before being upset and sad ...

    Yes, you have already exhausted them, colleagues no matter how ..... And a decent person will only spit in their direction. For there are only individual lovers to analyze the shades of the taste of shit. request
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 15: 34 New
      +1
      Ege, here is the answer of a true communist. I did not read, I do not understand, but I condemn
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy April 12 2020 16: 05 New
        -2
        Quote: Icelord
        Ege, here is the answer of a true communist. I did not read, I do not understand, but I condemn

        Well, for communist methods, principles, this is for Shpakovsky, he absorbed and assimilated them with his mother’s milk. Concerning I did not read, but I condemnthen no one canceled common sense and if you have a head on your shoulders, sorry, this is not about you, you can always judge sensibly at least about the end of the world, at least about the structure of the universe, the smaller scale is simply boring. repeat
    2. kalibr
      April 12 2020 17: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Yes, you have already exhausted them, colleagues no matter how

      In VO such things should not be written. IN the site of educated people.
    3. Astra wild
      Astra wild April 13 2020 16: 54 New
      +1
      Mauritius, in many respects I agree with you, but you don’t need to be rude. Our ideological opponents can regard this as our weakness. Please refrain from rudeness. I DO NOT LOVE boors
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 12 2020 15: 23 New
    -1
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    For you, the "English source" is the apotheosis of knowledge,

    In vain you are so about him. His head is not a pumpkin, but quite a dough calculator. Where everything is forgiven, how much for publication and for air fluctuations round-trip.
    The Shpakovskys are necessary, it is only thanks to them that we often recall Stalin and treat us with understanding in 1937. It was the right time. Stalin later wrote about linguistics, and the Hasan Huseynovs ennobled the soil far from their bowel movements. negative
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 15: 44 New
      -1
      Mdya ... Stalin is strong, here is the current you personally want to build a White Sea Canal, and children in a concentration camp?
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy April 12 2020 17: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: Icelord
        Mdya ... Stalin is strong, here is the current you personally want to build a White Sea Canal, and children in a concentration camp?

        Stalinand looked out the window for a long time? The Belomorkanal has long been built, the ignoramus, it’s time to clean it, you personally, nicely fit there. And your children themselves will understand moral values.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 17: 20 New
          0
          And why do you think that repression will not affect you, I don’t understand. And for rudeness, thank you, everything is clear
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 17: 22 New
            -1
            Are you a pensioner from the village?
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 17: 24 New
              -2
              We are now bored for pensioners, not like with Dzhugashvili, the potato did not freak, it died
              1. Icelord
                Icelord April 12 2020 17: 25 New
                0
                Your beloved did not pay pensions to peasants
                1. Mavrikiy
                  Mavrikiy April 13 2020 09: 57 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Icelord
                  Your beloved did not pay pensions to peasants

                  I agree, the manager is a boor and a liar by definition. Boorish, paper work, deceive and confuse. But:
                  “The Model Charter of the agricultural cartel of 1935 (Art. 11) obliged the collective farm board to create a social fund to assist disabled people, old people, collective farmers who temporarily lost their ability to work, needy families of military personnel by decision of the general meeting of members of the farm.
                  until the end of the 60s, collective farmers also received a pension, it was simply not the state that gave it out, but the collective farm itself. In addition to pensions from the collective farm, specialists and invalids of the Great Patriotic War could additionally receive state pensions.
                  Hi liars.
          2. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy April 12 2020 17: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Icelord
            And why do you think that repression will not affect you, I don’t understand. And for rudeness, thank you, everything is clear

            What is the question, such is the answer, less hamish, less fly, okay? And repression is directed. Repressions of 1937 were quite understandable and necessary.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 17: 35 New
              -3
              Oh you need to learn
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 17: 40 New
              -3
              Do not tell me your education? To avoid questions, I have a higher command school named after him. Lenin, the highest military academy of Uzbekistan, faculty of management and management of tashgu. And you?
              1. Mavrikiy
                Mavrikiy April 12 2020 18: 18 New
                -2
                Faculty of Management and Management of tashgu. And you?
                And in our apartment there is gas, a respected successful manager-manager. And my garden tower keeps you awake.
                Managers house - garbage can story or sold to Shpakovsky.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 12 2020 18: 26 New
                  0
                  Well, they didn’t answer, but insult, I’m also a subcircuit of the reserve, didn’t I let the gerach in vain in the Termez? You don’t even know how complicated the theory of management and management is. I throw beads. Who are you? Retired tractor operator?
                  1. Icelord
                    Icelord April 12 2020 18: 29 New
                    0
                    Why are none of the radicals voicing their education?
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord April 12 2020 19: 04 New
                      +1
                      And silence, well, answer Mauritius, who are you by education, it's funny when the plebs discusses politics
                      1. Icelord
                        Icelord April 12 2020 19: 09 New
                        +1
                        Okay, everything is clear with you, health and happiness
                      2. Mavrikiy
                        Mavrikiy April 13 2020 09: 47 New
                        -3
                        Well, answer Mauritius, who are you by training, it's funny when the plebs discusses politics
                        Plebs is your favorite definition as a liberal, however, like feces, anal sex in all variants, so flounder there. And "my education is very significant and respected in the world, to wag it for fun, everyone ...." Soviet !!! You were not yet in the world, but I already have hooks with a pencil ... fellow
                      3. Icelord
                        Icelord April 13 2020 10: 32 New
                        +2
                        More specifically, I had the first one when I got the Soviet war, then I really had to relearn, the backward hurt. But what is yours?
                      4. Icelord
                        Icelord April 13 2020 10: 42 New
                        -1
                        Ah, Vladimir, there won’t be any more for successful people to be indicated, but they will leave and the country will be bent, you won’t go far with the working class
                      5. Mavrikiy
                        Mavrikiy April 13 2020 10: 55 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Icelord
                        then the truth had to be retrained, the backward hurt. But what is yours?

                        I am not retarded, but advanced. Calm down, standard.
                      6. Icelord
                        Icelord April 13 2020 11: 04 New
                        +1
                        I am not retarded, but advanced. Calm down, standard. About eight classes of the corridor. You turn to people, but plebs are excusable
            3. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy April 13 2020 10: 48 New
              -3
              Quote: Icelord
              I am a subcircle of the reserve, too, in vain in the Termez Gerych did not let? I throw beads. Who are you? Retired tractor operator?
              The military are respected people, for they are defenders. But the presence of epaulets does not give rights to respect automatically. For it is rewarded on deeds, and you have already shown in words what you are. There were commissar-political commanders in the Red Army and the SA, from the beginning they were engaged in business, then empty-breeds and informers climbed there, not all of course, but if there are more than 50% of them, then the stigma is for everyone, because they themselves have not been cleared. And extremely stupid ignoramuses, boors with a tinned throat climbed there. And then they were dispersed and created by managers who knew nothing, but worked hard, like Shpakovsky.
              You don’t even know how complicated the theory of management and management is.
              Yes, it’s hard to cut loot, then one Boeing will buy it, then it’s out of luck, only enough for Airbus ....
              Stock subcircle, and I have them, n / a three active rhodosvennichka, starting with the brother-in-law and further down the table ..... all the way to the wild geese.
              And he himself, by the way, spent a year in Arys ..... Is that familiar?
              1. Icelord
                Icelord April 13 2020 10: 54 New
                0
                In general, I commanded the main frontier post of Uzbekistan, not once a political instructor, and now there are none. Arys is not my area of ​​responsibility, I have not seen reports. And education, old dad already had a factory and two factories. And I’m not the ear or the snout in management
              2. Icelord
                Icelord April 13 2020 11: 37 New
                +3
                I don’t saw the loot, and the fact that my father and I created almost the only production plants in Uzbekistan, but for example, the aircraft factory that did silt 76, that's all, it’s not
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 13 2020 11: 44 New
                  +2
                  Father, without exaggeration, cried when he was demolished, he was the chief engineer there, then the director, he created one of the first titanium casting workshops in the union. And you are an ignoramus and a parasite who sits on a couch and achs. How bad it is. Make it better
              3. kalibr
                April 13 2020 15: 37 New
                +4
                Quote: Mavrikiy
                I’m a subcircle of the reserve, and I have them, three active rhombuses, starting from the brother-in-law and further down the table ..... all the way to the wild geese.

                Tom Sawyer began to talk about his older brother ... "And mine is even older than yours! He will take, and throw yours over the fence."
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 12 2020 20: 22 New
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, and where is the Great Tartaria?
    1. kalibr
      April 12 2020 20: 39 New
      +2
      For the Greeks, Tartarus is ... tartarars. That is, the end of everything, an unknown thing. On their maps, they called all the marginal and unknown lands. Later, maps were improved, but the remote regions of Asia remained so with Tartaria. That's all!
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 20: 53 New
        +1
        Eeee ..... there will be tartaria, I’m sure, God forbid
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 21: 01 New
          +2
          Although you Vyacheslav Olegovich a little simplified. Tartar of the Underworld
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 21: 05 New
            0
            Here are alternatives and cling to such things. A normal person will understand of course, but they ....
            1. kalibr
              April 12 2020 21: 44 New
              +3
              He thundered into hell! Well, you understand ... but for every mouth, you can't put a scarf on. By the way, if you are a manager you will be interested in my book "PR-design and PR-promotion" (Infra-Engineering), there are a lot of examples of PR-design for managing human individuals.
              1. Icelord
                Icelord April 12 2020 21: 50 New
                0
                I already bought it, thank you, interestingly, I do not agree with everything written, but on the whole sensibly. In my opinion
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 12 2020 21: 54 New
                  -1
                  You see, I myself am the owner, the factory where I am the director, mine. It’s easier for me.
                  1. Icelord
                    Icelord April 12 2020 22: 02 New
                    +1
                    By the way, I bought a book in Tashkent in a bookstore, though it’s the only one, it’s very large and everything’s like, but still you have climbed far
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord April 12 2020 22: 14 New
                      -1
                      I haven’t found a book about PR, sadness.
                    2. kalibr
                      April 13 2020 06: 27 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Icelord
                      but still you have climbed far

                      Great! I didn’t know that my books had gotten this far. But there is no merit here. Wholesalers buy in bulk and deliver "all over the world."
                      1. Icelord
                        Icelord April 13 2020 09: 56 New
                        +2
                        Uh ... I do not think that the wholesaler will buy what he can not sell. So that the merit of the author is
                  2. Astra wild
                    Astra wild April 13 2020 17: 56 New
                    0
                    As there V. Mayakovsky: "the owner: factories, newspapers and transitions" (it seems so). If the quote is not correct, read: I have not read Mayakovsky since primary school
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy April 13 2020 11: 05 New
      -4
      Quote: Astra wild
      where is the great tartaria

      He praised him (Vyacheslav Olegovich), looking, and he lied again. The essence .......
      1. kalibr
        April 13 2020 13: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        where is the great tartaria

        And where is she?
  • ee2100
    ee2100 April 12 2020 22: 07 New
    0
    Mr. historian, do you get money by activating on this subset?
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 12 2020 22: 22 New
      +2
      Anyone writing an article on a site gets paid, you can too
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 12 2020 22: 34 New
        +1
        Ek. Judging by the minuses, the Stalinists came running. What surprises me is they are not at all, where do they come from?
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 12 2020 22: 37 New
          0
          Are all the hundred communists of the former USSR here?
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 12 2020 22: 50 New
            +1
            The second book kind of came out, public opinion management technology? If so, how to order? Vyacheslav Olegovich
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 12 2020 22: 52 New
              +1
              I did not find
            2. kalibr
              April 13 2020 06: 24 New
              0
              This third book is Public Opinion Management Technologies. The second is PR design and PR promotion. How to order? Probably contact Infra-Engineering Publishing House, explain the situation to them and ask for help. They have a very good editor, I'm sure he will find a way out. I myself would have sent you, but now publishers give only one book each. And a shoemaker without boots ...
              1. Icelord
                Icelord April 13 2020 08: 09 New
                0
                Thank you for the information
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy April 13 2020 10: 59 New
            -2
            Quote: Icelord
            Are all the hundred communists of the former USSR here?

            So one V. Shpakovsky will pull on 50 Zyuganov communists. repeat
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy April 13 2020 10: 50 New
    -4
    Quote: kalibr
    but the remote regions of Asia remained so with Tartaria. That's all!

    Well, the only honest koment. repeat request
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 13 2020 12: 05 New
      +1
      Be so kind, sir, read what is written to you. A little higher
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy April 13 2020 12: 37 New
        -3
        Quote: Icelord
        Be so kind, sir, read what is written to you. A little higher

        More specifically, Monsieur.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord April 13 2020 14: 15 New
          +3
          Well, a post about the fact that you are an ignoramus and a parasite.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 13 2020 16: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    where is the great tartaria

    And where is she?

    We ask Fomenko and K
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 13 2020 17: 36 New
      0
      Eeeee .... let's not call the devil. He is already somewhere nearby
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild April 13 2020 17: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Icelord
    Are all the hundred communists of the former USSR here?

    There were more than 20 million people in the CPSU, and you say 100
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 13 2020 18: 18 New
      +1
      It was, I was also a Komsomol company
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 13 2020 18: 24 New
        0
        Now wiser
        1. agond
          agond April 14 2020 20: 17 New
          0
          Peter 1 in 1699, by his decree, deleted 5508 years from our history along with the events that occurred in .5-5 thousand years (so we now had 7528), and all the ancient documents were brought to Moscow by his decree, where instead of them there were copies that are now in the archives and are being poked into the noses of numerous researchers, and they then tell us tales about the "history"
  • Alexander Samoilov
    Alexander Samoilov April 18 2020 13: 35 New
    +1
    But nothing that this book was published in Russian 18 years ago in the almanac of the New Soldier No. 193? laughing
  • Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 19 May 2020 18: 32 New
    0
    It would not be the worst option.
  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 5 July 2020 15: 24 New
    0
    Again, this dregs about Jutland. And why, then, the Danish scientists in their mass are in no hurry to support the Normanists? For some reason, they are completely sure that Rerik of Jutland has nothing to do with Russia. And from your blue huss and tru waring (this is about the brothers of our Rurik, if someone does not know) generally laugh out loud: this crap is deciphered, firstly, in the Danish of the 19th century, and not at all in the language of the 10th century, and secondly - it is also a Danish version of "my favorite Russian isyku". Already in this ugly 19th century, some wiseacres from historical science tried to find Rurik among the Swedes. But they did this stupidity because they had not personally read the main primary source - PVL. For Nestor wrote there in Old Russian in white that the Rus were not Svei, Anglyane, or Goths. That is, the Swedish theory about Rurik was deleted at least at the beginning of the 12th century. That did not stop the "scientists" from considering it. At the same time, another Rerik was completely ignored - one of the leaders of the Polabian Slavs, just one of those who also liked to go to sea in order to redistribute material wealth. He had difficulties with the Franks, so there was a real motive to move away from the unfaithful allies, His name was Rerik, and he lived in quite suitable years. And he was definitely connected with Gostomsl by some family ties. But no. Scandinavian and that's it, even if the stakes are on your head. Polabian Slavs did not know the state yet? Nor did the Scandinavians know. Russia appeared on the map earlier than all Denmark and Sweden with Norway.