Military Review

The social status of the teacher. Rehabilitation is not possible?

152

Source: infpol.ru


The origins of the problem


One of the most favorite arguments of the “analysts” of school education is the memory of their own youth, when teachers were surrounded by almost a halo of exclusivity. And there were several reasons for this. Firstly, teachers surrounded by children were one of the few carriers of knowledge and skills that could not be taken from anywhere else. If the teacher at school does not teach something, then “google info” will not work - in the best case, it will be painful to look for an informational spring in the library. With parents, too, everything was not so simple: most of them did not have a higher education and with a certain reverence belonged to everyone who had it. That is why the family raised respectful attitude to teachers and methods of their work. Secondly, schoolchildren in the Soviet Union were in a certain information field and the school in it occupied a very significant place. In a secondary school, they not only educated, but also educated in accordance with the letter of socialist pedagogy. Moreover, at school they could give a profession to a graduate. The street as one of the powerful tools for the formation of a teenager, if possible, was replaced by various circles, sections, houses of children's creativity and much more. There was no harmful influence of television, the world wide network and round-the-clock access to the telephone line.

The social status of the teacher. Rehabilitation is not possible?

Source: rdsh.rf

What happened now? A very unpleasant contradiction has formed, in which a profession significant for society has lost its entire social status in recent decades. That is, educators need society, but no one wants to go into the teaching profession. On average, according to VTsIOM, no more than 20-25% of Russians believe that the profession of a teacher is prestigious, and only 14-16% are ready to send their children to teacher training universities. First of all, the question rests on the salary of the teacher. It was not without reason that Vladimir Putin’s proposal turned out to increase the payment for classroom management by the coming school year by 5 thousand rubles. Now the classroom leadership of many in the school is considered as one of the most difficult duties. Given the latest requirements for class teachers (for example, monitoring social networks of children and constant awareness of their whereabouts), they should be in touch almost around the clock. Are there any other similar examples in other professional areas? And until September 2020, this work will be paid in the range of 1,5-2 thousand rubles. It’s good if the teacher is given an exemplary class with motivated parents, for the success of which you can get an additional bonus. And if the class carries a letter in the “GI” range and is completely filled with children from dysfunctional families?

In fairness, it is worth noting that the problem of the low social status of teachers is relevant not only for Russia. The prestige of pedagogical work is falling in other countries. So, in the UK, the dynamics of the attitude of teachers themselves to their profession from 1967 to 2003 was analyzed. It turned out that at the very beginning of the study, on a five-point scale, teachers evaluated the status of the profession at 4,2 points, in 1979 - already at 3,7 points, in 1988 - at 2,4 points, in 1997 - 2,4 points, and finally in 2003 - only 2,2 points.

At the same time, the profession of a teacher is not prestigious in different ways. In accordance with the results of the study “Global Teacher Status Index”, the British built a rating of the social status of teachers in 21 countries of the world. The data obtained showed that the highest status of a teacher is in China, and the lowest is in Israel and Brazil. Russia, unfortunately, was not included in this monitoring, but it is unlikely that the results would gravitate to the top of the list. In all countries where the teacher’s social status is low, there are two main reasons: deprofessionalization and economic pressure from the market. And here our school education, as they say, is among the world trends.

We are looking for good teachers


In many ways, the wrong policy of the state in recent decades regarding school education has become the reason that we are now observing. What does a teacher expect when he first crosses the threshold of a school? First of all, the lack of career growth. The almost formal division of the qualification level into categories does not significantly affect the level of remuneration. In contrast, for example, from the payment system in the presidential cadet, Suvorov and Nakhimov schools, where the wage gap is more significant. And it turns out that a teacher can work in one position for decades, expecting a salary increase only within the framework of the next indexation. Not every teacher can even apply for the position of deputy director and even director - simply because these rates for the whole school are not more than four or five. So it turns out that the teacher does not have an adequate career path in the modern school, and no solution to this problem is yet to be expected.


Source: infpol.ru

The next mistake that the state itself created and still has not eliminated was the decline in the level of education of young teachers. The thing is in numerous pedagogical institutes, which have been releasing bachelors from their walls for many years. People go to school, whose professionalism is still very difficult to figure out. Often questions arise about the ability of young teachers to prepare school graduates for the Unified State Exam. The fact that the state is not very attentive to the level of training of teachers is evidenced by the fact that many technical universities were allowed to maintain a 5-year specialty, and most teachers are trained for only 4 years. Surprisingly, now for admission to the Physics and Mathematics Faculty of a Pedagogical University, a graduate does not need to take an exam in physics! Of the profile exams, only social studies are enough. And after four years, a freshly baked bachelor will go to school to teach children physics. Naturally, all of the above in no way can enhance the prestige of the teaching profession in society.

During the years of the unbridled market economy and the echoes of the high birth rate of the early 80s, pedagogical universities recruited 5-6 groups of students for one course. Not only pedagogical institutes did this, but the vast majority of other universities: the exam was not yet compulsory in schools. Often, universities that trained future teachers recruited students according to the residual principle. Those who were more capable or richer took budgetary and paid places in more prestigious universities. At the same time, everyone perfectly understood that such a huge number of teachers would not find a job after graduation. What is the result? Firstly, for 5 years a lot of youth was pulled out of the labor market - these people could work for the country's economy and develop their own potential. Secondly, a large number of “professional” teachers have appeared who never wanted and will not work at school. In the best case, they subsequently received a second higher education such as “lawyer”, “economist” or “manager” and began to work at least in their new specialty. Graduates of pedagogical universities were arranged anywhere, but not to schools. What prestige of the teaching profession can we talk about after such a discredit?


Source: fulledu.ru

The next problem arising from the previous one was the universal higher education of the modern parental community. Now a person who graduated from a teacher training university and has worked as a teacher for many years does not inspire much respect from parents, because they themselves are red or, at worst, blue with diplomas. Therefore, they themselves know very well what and how to teach their own child. Of this, conflicts often arise that cast a shadow on the authority of the teacher in the eyes of children.

And the last one. A modern child is far from a schoolchild of the Soviet era, brought up on the ideals of the communist system and born in a large and friendly family. More and more are becoming the only children in the family, and even those who have appeared at the age of “well over thirty” for mothers. Naturally, this child receives a carte blanche from birth to satisfy all his needs, and no authority of the teacher can prevent this. Moreover, from the side of the family, the child receives unconditional and categorical support. Parents more savvy and richer guessed that it would be much smarter to send such youth to educational institutions with round-the-clock stay of students. These are the mentioned Suvorov, Nakhimov and cadet schools of the Ministry of Defense or rare boarding schools for the gifted (read: and wealthy). Here, the parents’ ambitions will be further away, and the pernicious influence of the media with the Internet on a couple will be easier to control.

Destroyed over many years, the authority of a teacher overnight will be very difficult to raise. But you can start with a banal - a multiple increase in financial investments in the school system. To create a situation where it would be unprofitable for a teacher with great experience and serious authority to leave work for the sake of earning tutoring. The teacher’s large salary will allow the director to choose among the most worthy candidates for work. Finally, high social guarantees will raise the competition for pedagogical specialties in universities. Let's start with a simple one, and only then it will be possible to conduct a conversation about the full increase of the social status of the teaching profession.
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  1. iouris
    iouris April 1 2020 15: 04 New
    0
    Without power cover no one has authority.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog April 1 2020 15: 22 New
      17
      No one will raise the social status of a teacher .. because there is a stratification of society, where some send their children abroad, others with less income teach children in specialized schools, and still others, of which the guarantor ranked among the middle class, and 70% of whom are not required to be taught .. the electorate must be stupid in a capitalist society ..
      1. Chervonny
        Chervonny April 1 2020 15: 58 New
        26
        Quote: Svarog
        the electorate must be stupid in a capitalist society ..

        Capitalism is primarily:
        irrational distribution of labor;
        uneven distribution of wealth in society;
        volume debt obligations (loans, loans, mortgages);
        large capitalists, based on their interests, influence the government;
        lack of a system of opposition to corruption schemes;
        workers receive less than what their labor actually costs;
        increased profits due to monopolies in some sectors.
        For the capitalists, the people are just a "consumer society".
        "Consumer society" is the result of the influence of capitalist attitudes on the minds of people. In such a society, the ideology of individual consumption dominates. The moral values ​​of the "consumer society" deny the need for all-round mental, moral and spiritual development of man. This leads to the fooling of people, their degradation as individuals, the decline of mass culture. In addition, it simplifies the manipulation of consciousness, since it is very easy to deceive dark, ignorant people. "Consumer society" I - leads to disunity of people, as something collective, develops selfish super-individualism and psychological diseases.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS April 1 2020 20: 22 New
          10
          Quote: Red
          apitalism is primarily:
          irrational distribution of labor;
          uneven distribution of wealth in society;

          Take it away, dear. First of all, capitalism is other life values. That is why singers, bloggers, advertisers earn more than teachers, doctors, tractor drivers, combine harvesters, etc. ... that's why everything is focused on -EARN AS MORE MONEY CAN BE. It was only in a capitalist society that such concepts as tolerance, game parades, feminism (as if someone had taken away the rights of women) and so on ...
          And you reason precisely as a person living or born in a capitalist society, which such thinking has imposed on you.
          Status in a capitalist society is determined by the amount of money, likes, ratings, etc., and not by that level of USEFULNESS for society. A blogger with a million subscribers will not cure the patient of the coronovirus, a singer (mediocre) will not teach a person how to value his family, love his homeland, etc. The advertiser will not create a cancer vaccine. But at the same time, they are all with statuses, ride expensive cars and yachts, dress couture ...
          For a second, think that if doctors, teachers, educators earned as much as show business stars earn today? And singers, bloggers and all this tinsel, received 20 thousand rubles a month. Maybe then the youth would dream of growing up and becoming not a worthless dull, sorry, shit with puffed lips and breasts, but a really useful person for society.
          Capitalism a priori does not allow normal, correct life values ​​in its concept.
      2. Tank hard
        Tank hard April 1 2020 16: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Svarog
        No one will raise the social status of a teacher

        Over time, it will be necessary if you do not want to get a dumb biomass, with all the ensuing consequences. request
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 April 1 2020 18: 38 New
          +7
          Quote: Tank Hard
          if you do not want to get stupid biomass, with all the ensuing consequences

          And if the goals are just that?
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard April 1 2020 22: 55 New
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And if the goals are just that?

            This cannot be in principle, despite the fact that some of them are writing here, positioning themselves as Bolsheviks. Someone needs to develop at least the military-industrial complex (stupid ones cannot create aircraft and even assemble them). Even in the "west" condemned by some, a certain number of smart people are needed, otherwise development will stop. request
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 April 2 2020 09: 09 New
              0
              Quote: Tank Hard
              This cannot be in principle

              Why, a small percentage of smart people will be even with such an education system. request And they don’t need more, just look at the state of affairs with qualified personnel at the enterprises of the military-industrial complex.
      3. NEXUS
        NEXUS April 1 2020 17: 24 New
        17
        Quote: Svarog
        No one will raise the teacher’s social status ..

        Status, position in society, ratings ... who invented this? If a person began to earn more than others, he buys a STATUS car, because it’s worthless for a gentleman to ride anything. If you have a million followers on Instagram, then you are famous, successful, status. And it doesn’t matter that they subscribe not to a person, but to her, forgive the body charms, or to his fame on TV (more often doubtful).
        Right now, status uncles, aunts, girls and boys are sitting at home, and some people are in quarantine in the hospital and tell me, and in this perspective, who is more status-oriented: a doctor (who has a salary of 20 thousand, let's say) or a blogger who has millions of subscribers? What good does the singer say, bring society, for which he has such fees that doctors and teachers with their earnings and standard of living, like creeping up their asses to China with their asses?
        Of course, there are rich people who contain orphanages, kennels for sick and abandoned dogs, etc., and thank you very much. But ... it seems to me alone that our way of life and the distribution of values, as well as human usefulness to society, have been put on their feet on your head?
        A doctor who saved 100 lives receives a modest salary, a mortgage for 25 years, and a pension that you can not die of hunger. And a man who sang a mediocre song, while earning millions, in the status of a significant individual in society. The wildness and idiocy that makes our world a Kingdom of de facto crooked mirrors.
        1. pv1005
          pv1005 April 1 2020 17: 51 New
          +5
          +100500 and even more.
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather April 1 2020 20: 22 New
            10
            remembering my childhood, well, when I was ... 13-15 years old, there was no free time at all, if nothing was blown up in the forest, then we were at school, then sections one after another (free) boxing (to take a punch and not be afraid of pain ) sambo (for a figure like Kharlampiev and for "relief", then in the basement - a barbell, weights (well, pump up the "banks"), chess ... (back to school), dancing (don't laugh! I walked a little. so that dibil not stand at the wall at school evenings) I was successful! the girls admired, but I didn’t need more (I didn’t know why THEY were) home already on "autopilot" (as now, but in a different way) I was brutally tired, and It was right. I was ready to bow to the belt, but there was no one, everyone had already died. But I came to the army as a ready fighter, "Kalashmat" - easy, PM - yes, how are you, OZK - for God's sake ... run? I haven't smoked yet), the rest was quickly instilled in the army by the grandfathers, thanks to all of them.And this is all for what I? - yes THIS IS ALL, for specific 4 years before the army.that is the time when we, already grandfathers, need to break grandchildren through Leno, and own laziness. you need to save the boys. then, maybe at the grave, but they will say Thank you Grandfather ... what else do you need?
      4. iouris
        iouris April 4 2020 11: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: Svarog
        some send their children abroad, others

        In our country (in the Russian Federation), quality education can only be universal. You can send abroad, but it is pointless. The "domestic elite" is not part of the "world elite". A striking and funny example is Peskov's daughter (from Paris: "I will deal with legal proceedings," well, in the sense, the production of military courts).
        1. Severok
          Severok April 5 2020 20: 41 New
          +2
          The most interesting thing is that in modern Russia there are no real elites. There are self-proclaimers such as buzovoy, kirkorov, matvienki, dog dogs and other mold. There was an elite in the USSR: test pilots, astronauts, scientists, writers and composers who, along with the performers of their works, became legends during their lifetime.
  2. Octopus
    Octopus April 1 2020 15: 17 New
    +1
    Who is the author contacting?
    1. NordUral
      NordUral April 1 2020 16: 10 New
      14
      To everyone who remembers their school. Many thanks to my teachers!
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 1 2020 17: 08 New
        -4
        "To all" means to give up schools, to go all home schooling.

        If you need to change schools, then the question is not to "everyone" but to those who are able to do it.

        I see no signs that the author is inclined to consider the problems of education from a practical point of view. Some kind of idle chatter in the kitchen.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral April 1 2020 19: 10 New
          +1
          Octopus , the author simply outlined the situation. In my opinion, with that power and with the system that now in the country everything will only get worse.
          It will be possible to change everything for the better in education (and in everything) only with a change in the social system and the replacement of the fake elite at the top and in all levels of power with a real one.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus April 1 2020 19: 44 New
            0
            Quote: NordUral
            It will be possible to change everything for the better in education (and in everything) only with a change in the social system

            What is the social system in Finland? South Korea?
            1. NordUral
              NordUral April 1 2020 20: 02 New
              0
              Socialism, Octopus, socialism! I lived with him for most of my life. And in general, he suited me, only by the 80s that mold in power, especially in the supreme power, had mutilated him, and so that we had forgotten the good, rushed to the best, beautiful tomorrow.
              And so it came, the present of horror films that were not yet made.
              1. Octopus
                Octopus April 1 2020 21: 13 New
                0
                Quote: NordUral
                Socialism, Octopus, socialism!

                Nifiga yourself news.
                1. NordUral
                  NordUral April 1 2020 21: 26 New
                  +1
                  There will certainly be such news.
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 1 2020 16: 19 New
      +6
      Quote: Octopus
      Who is the author contacting?

      Apparently, the author does not care, but now it’s already clear that they don’t understand him ... repeat
  3. Mitroha
    Mitroha April 1 2020 15: 17 New
    +7
    It is necessary to start not with teachers, but with education officials. There will be a normal clear course supported by the state, and the profession of a teacher respected and prestigious will be.
    And if the teacher is to blame for any reason, then you should not continue
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak April 1 2020 15: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: Mitroha
      It is necessary to start not with teachers, but with education officials.

      You need to start with yourself.
      1. Mitroha
        Mitroha April 1 2020 15: 37 New
        +9
        You tell stubborn mothers. They will quickly build and guide you. I just went to the meeting, after which I wanted to get into the bathroom and wash the human crap out of me. After he swore
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak April 1 2020 16: 03 New
          +7
          Quote: Mitroha
          You tell stubborn mothers.

          And to the dads at the same time, I tried to voice it once. But the editors of VO "turned up" my article on this topic, maybe I'll edit it later and try again.
          Quote: Mitroha
          I just went to the meeting

          And I go to everyone. My wife and I have an agreement - she’s the eldest, I’m the younger.
          Quote: Mitroha
          after which I wanted to get into the bathroom and wash off the human dope

          There are such moments.
          1. Mitroha
            Mitroha April 1 2020 16: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: vvvjak

            Quote: Mitroha
            I just went to the meeting

            And I go to everyone. My wife and I have an agreement - she’s the eldest, I’m the younger.

            Probably your nerves are iron. I can’t stand it, the nervous system to hell
        2. Den717
          Den717 April 1 2020 17: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Mitroha
          After he swore

          Foreign mothers repulsed the desire to deal with their own child? Or did you solve the problem of relationships with the school outside of meetings?
          1. Mitroha
            Mitroha April 1 2020 18: 02 New
            +2
            Have you ever come to a vegan feminist party with superbroasted beef steak?
            I can talk directly with the teacher / director
            1. Den717
              Den717 April 1 2020 19: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Mitroha
              Have you ever come to a vegan feminist party with superbroasted beef steak?

              Actually, I don’t go to dubious party parties with food. laughing ... But I got the hint. In fact, I was systematically involved in the extracurricular activities of my children's classrooms. And I attended meetings regularly. Although I know the principals and the teaching staff from personal communication. I cannot say that all the parents at the meeting impressed me. But the way you described .... You are fabulously "lucky". I don't have such vivid impressions. Maybe because the classes were quite simple for themselves, without frills and claims to the "super gymnasium" level? There were many questions about the quality of teachers. But somehow everything was resolved, sometimes with additional courses. They paid. But not too much. I myself, when I was finishing my school at the turn of the 70s and 80s, also went for money to training courses at the Polytechnic Institute. In general, I am not inclined to assess the current level of the education system as completely depressing. The children graduated from our semi-village schools (city of 40 population) quite successfully, with medals. Enrolled on the budget in good universities. From my own experience I can say that a lot depends on the family, on the word "very much". But one can see from my daughter's school how today students of pedagogical universities of the 000s come to school management, when it was "no mind, go to ped", and who came into the profession with almost no luck at all. So I agree with you - moms / dads, this is the key to success or the reason for failure. In the overwhelming proportion.
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 1 2020 18: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Mitroha
      It is necessary to start not with teachers, but with education officials. There will be a normal clear course supported by the state, and the profession of a teacher respected and prestigious will be.

      Yes? Or maybe start with ourselves, for starters? Do not elevate to the rank of the great, mediocrity and freaks. Do not be slaves of envy and Ponte. We teach our children from infancy that who has the coolest mobile phone, that is more status, higher in position, and therefore more respected.
      In the same USSR, especially in the pre-war and post-war years, praised ordinary people with simple professions that really benefited society. And it was they, these simple doctors, teachers, combines, tractor drivers, etc., who, 5 years after the war, lifted the country out of ruin and poverty, making it the second economy of the world, without the IMF, a barrel of oil, etc.
      Like there in the Bible, don’t make yourself an idol ... we now have every blogger who has a million subscribers, an idol. And what does this misunderstanding give useful to society?
      1. Mitroha
        Mitroha April 1 2020 18: 54 New
        +5
        Quote: NEXUS
        We teach our children from infancy that who has the coolest mobile phone, that is more status, higher in position, and therefore more respected.

        I have a fairly large social circle, and there are people from extremely different "strata" of society. But I've never heard such wildness from anyone
        Quote: NEXUS
        In the same USSR, especially in the pre-war and post-war years, praised ordinary people with simple professions that really benefited society. And it was they, these simple doctors, teachers, combines, tractor drivers, etc., who, 5 years after the war, lifted the country out of ruin and poverty, making it the second economy of the world, without the IMF, a barrel of oil, etc.

        But I strongly agree with this
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS April 1 2020 19: 03 New
          +2
          Quote: Mitroha
          But I haven’t heard such savagery from anyone

          Listen to the children at school ... yeah ...
    3. NordUral
      NordUral April 1 2020 19: 13 New
      +3
      If top officials say that they do not need smart and educated, then what can be required of officials from education. What they are ordered to do is done. And those who do not fulfill the next order, killing schools and universities, will be fired or will leave.
  4. Skay
    Skay April 1 2020 15: 25 New
    +5
    Now a person who graduated from a teacher training university and worked as a teacher for many years does not inspire much respect from parents, because they themselves are red or, at worst, blue with diplomas. Therefore, they themselves know very well what and how to teach their own child.

    The coronavirus will teach to value and respect teachers. All the "conditions" for home education have been created.
    1. military_cat
      military_cat April 1 2020 15: 55 New
      -2
      Quote: Skay
      The coronavirus will teach to value and respect teachers. All the "conditions" for home education have been created.
      As if the result were not the opposite of what you expect. I tried to take courses on online platforms like Coursera - the impressions are purely positive.
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 1 2020 16: 13 New
      +4
      Quote: Skay
      The coronavirus will teach to value and respect teachers. All the "conditions" for home education have been created.

      Tell us more about the conditions. Curious... repeat
      1. Skay
        Skay April 1 2020 18: 32 New
        +4
        Tell us more about the conditions. Curious...

        Personally, my "conditions" are as follows: two children, 2nd and 4th grade, were transferred to distance learning. This means that I have to have three computers at home. Two for children and one worker for me. While scraping 2 pieces.
        Our problems do not concern school. Everyone was forced to sign statements that we know the conditions and rules for obtaining distance education, take responsibility for the life and health of children, and guarantee the creation of conditions for receiving distance education. Have given the schedule of lessons and changes! Teachers themselves do not understand how all this will look. They are really sorry.
        Now there is a regime of self-isolation and at home there are adults who can rebuild children. But, not a single normal child can independently study remotely. This is child psychology. Another economic blow is inflicted on the family. Either you teach your children, but have problems with income, or you earn money, but you grow up ignorant.
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard April 1 2020 22: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: Skay
          Personally, my "conditions" are as follows: two children, 2nd and 4th grade, were transferred to distance learning. This means that I have to have three computers at home. Two for children and one worker for me. While scraping 2 pieces.
          Our problems do not concern school. Everyone was forced to sign statements that we know the conditions and rules for obtaining distance education, take responsibility for the life and health of children, and guarantee the creation of conditions for receiving distance education. Have given the schedule of lessons and changes! Teachers themselves do not understand how all this will look. They are really sorry.
          Now there is a regime of self-isolation and at home there are adults who can rebuild children. But, not a single normal child can independently study remotely. This is child psychology. Another economic blow is inflicted on the family. Either you teach your children, but have problems with income, or you earn money, but you grow up ignorant.

          Well, what does the school and teachers have to do with it? Your indignation is towards the leadership of education and the country. request
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Mitroha
      Mitroha April 1 2020 15: 55 New
      +2
      That's just the story, as you know, does not accept the subjunctive mood
  6. Tank hard
    Tank hard April 1 2020 16: 11 New
    +2
    . Not every teacher can even apply for the position of deputy director and even director - simply because these rates for the whole school are not more than four or five. So it turns out that the teacher has no adequate career growth in the modern school, and no solution to this problem is yet to be expected.

    Not every teacher can handle such a position. In some schools (the word needs to be added now), head teachers receive fewer teachers in general (but here schools are different and subordinate (federal, city ...)). Again, there is the concept of budget and "off-budget". "Extrabudgetary" is PSE and educators (for example). If now in connection with the "quarantine" the teachers were sent on "holidays", then the "off-budget employees" are in a much worse situation. They have practically no guarantees of salary retention. In short, the devil will break his leg ... repeat
  7. GKS 2111
    GKS 2111 April 1 2020 16: 20 New
    12
    The profession of a teacher has always been considered respected and prestigious. What is happening with the status of a teacher today? In fact, the current extremely low status of teachers, which has many manifestations - from low wages to insecurity from insults and a ban on one's own opinion or mention of rights - leads to a rapid drop in the level of school education throughout the country. Because a downtrodden and humiliated person cannot be a good teacher. By definition, it cannot. Today we are no longer talking about any privileges. Achieve at least a human relationship. At the first stage of implementation of the "status". But, apparently, this goal is ordered. What to do? The first point is material, moral and other stimulation of labor. Indeed, it is not so good with money as it is bad without it! The material funds received by the teacher should be sufficient for him not only for spiritual food. Establish benefits for utility bills. Annual medical examination and vaccination of teachers should be carried out without fail, but free of charge. Return early retirement. Something like this.
  8. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem April 1 2020 16: 33 New
    +4
    Our president understands the accumulated problems in the field of education, and this is primarily a small salary of teachers.
    Therefore, the first step was a serious increase in their wages.
    But the problem cannot be solved only by this and at the top they understand this.
    For a year or two, the problems cannot be eliminated, but steps have been taken and there are changes.
    Py.Sy. My wife works at a university and I know about problems and changes that are taking place.
  9. Avior
    Avior April 1 2020 16: 48 New
    +8
    Now the classroom leadership of many in the school is considered as one of the most difficult duties.

    Soviet relic
    The teacher-organizer-educator should be a separate person, and not a subject teacher with an additional non-core load, which is given forcibly.
    Say, a separate bet on the parallel of three or four classes - the teacher is engaged in a purely educational and organizational process.
    The second, another Soviet relic, is the requirement that everyone must graduate with a certificate and also give a percentage of knowledge.
    Until the school ceases to be responsible for the student who graduated purely with a certificate of graduation, and who is dear to the diggers or lumberjacks then, and the school does not appear the type of punishment - removal from school for violation of discipline, it will be difficult to establish a normal educational process
    You interfere with others at the lesson, postponed for a week, disrupt the lesson, teach yourself or hire a tutor. And parents will react differently to complaints of behavior
    smile
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 1 2020 17: 12 New
      0
      .
      Quote: Avior
      Until the school is no longer responsible for the student
      Yes, you are a Jacobin.
      1. Avior
        Avior April 1 2020 17: 16 New
        +2
        Rather realist smile
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 1 2020 17: 43 New
          -4
          Quote: Avior
          Rather realist

          No.

          To whom is the school responsible for the student?
          1. ser56
            ser56 April 1 2020 18: 14 New
            +1
            Quote: Octopus
            Before whom is the school responsible for the student?

            district
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 1 2020 18: 18 New
              0
              Department of Education of the region.

              Now again. Who do you propose to refuse responsibility? What is the responsibility? Why give it up?
              1. Avior
                Avior April 1 2020 18: 30 New
                0
                and from those ministry
                school work is evaluated according to the results of students
                I didn’t write that the school should refuse
                Until the school is no longer responsible for the student

                from school should not ask for it ...
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 1 2020 18: 32 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Avior
                  from school should not ask for it ...

                  Why should not? Why do you think it exists?
                  1. Avior
                    Avior April 1 2020 18: 44 New
                    -2
                    a camel can be brought to a well, but a camel cannot be made to get drunk
                    especially if the camel does not really need water
                    the camel will only interfere with drinking
                    1. Octopus
                      Octopus April 1 2020 19: 33 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Avior
                      the camel will only interfere with drinking

                      What does "drink" mean? Try to formulate without metaphors.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 19: 45 New
                        0
                        this means that no matter how high the level of the course is stated, this does not mean at all that the student will want to study it, especially taking into account the fact that he considers this course to be really unnecessary
                      2. Octopus
                        Octopus April 1 2020 20: 02 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        this means that no matter how high the level of the course is stated, this does not mean at all that the student will want to study it, especially taking into account the fact that he considers this course to be really unnecessary

                        Well, do not care.
                        What does the school care about these circumstances? What else at whatever high level the course is presented in MBOU secondary school №76, Barnaul, Altai Territory?

                        For some reason, I have the impression that, referring to education, you always talk about the conditional 57th school. But the conditional 57th school generally does not have those problems that bother you (and has completely different ones). Do you understand that universal secondary education is not the 57th school?
                      3. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 20: 04 New
                        +1
                        but try not to figuratively write, but directly
                        I did not write about 57 school
                      4. Octopus
                        Octopus April 1 2020 21: 11 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        but try not to figuratively write, but directly

                        It is not difficult.

                        You claim that a school is an educational institution. But this is nothing more than a coincidence of names. School is a state social institution. Her work should be evaluated precisely from this point of view.

                        And from this point of view, keeping that one camel on the leash - and usually this is not one camel, but a third of the class - is much more important than indulging those little things that you waste time in any case: it’s impossible to get a quality education in most schools. Can you recognize how most people at school taught English? Everything else was taught no better.
                      5. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 21: 27 New
                        +1
                        Can you recognize how most people at school taught English? Everything else was taught no better.

                        obviously you are interchanging cause and effect
                        if the school is a social institution, then it is necessary to amend the Federal Law "On Education in the Russian Federation", in article 23
                        Article 23. Types of educational organizations


                        1. Educational organizations are divided into types in accordance with educational programs, the implementation of which is the main goal of their activities.
                        2. In the Russian Federation, the following types of educational organizations are established that implement the main educational programs:
                        .
                        2) a general educational organization - an educational organization that carries out educational activities as the main goal of its activity under the educational programs of primary general, basic general and (or) secondary general education;
                        .....

                        draw out paragraph 2 and related thereto and issue a law on socialization in the Russian Federation.

                        or do what I'm writing about.
                        But not together ....
                      6. Octopus
                        Octopus April 1 2020 21: 49 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        you need to make changes

                        Oh my God. What will Ms. Tereshkova, Valentina Vladimirovna say?
                      7. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 21: 59 New
                        +1
                        you know better, this is your view
                        I wrote to you how the state now sees the school’s task; it doesn’t completely coincide with yours
                        Moreover, formally it is the responsibility of parents
                        Article 44. Rights, duties and responsibilities in the field of education of parents (legal representatives) of minor students ...
                        4. Parents (legal representatives) of minor students are required to:
                        1) ensure that children receive a general education;
                        2) comply with the internal rules of the organization engaged in educational activities, the rules of residence of students in boarding schools, the requirements of local regulations that establish the students' study schedule, the procedure for regulating educational relations between the educational organization and students and (or) their parents (legal representatives) and registration the occurrence, suspension and termination of these relations;
                        3) to respect the honor and dignity of students and employees of the organization engaged in educational activities.

                        and the students themselves
                        Article 43. Duties and Responsibilities of Students


                        1. Students are required to:
                        1) conscientiously master the educational program, fulfill the individual curriculum, including attend classes provided for by the curriculum or individual curriculum, carry out independent preparation for classes, perform tasks given by pedagogical staff as part of the educational program;
                        2) comply with the requirements of the charter of the organization engaged in educational activities, internal regulations, rules of residence in hostels and boarding schools and other local regulations on the organization and implementation of educational activities;
                        3) take care of maintaining and strengthening their health, strive for moral, spiritual and physical development and self-improvement;
                        4) to respect the honor and dignity of other students and employees of the organization engaged in educational activities, not to create obstacles for other students to receive an education;
                        5) take care of the property of an organization engaged in educational activities.
                        2. Other obligations of students not provided for by part 1 of this article shall be established by this Federal Law, other federal laws, and the education agreement (if any).
                        3. Discipline in the organization engaged in educational activities is supported on the basis of respect for the human dignity of students and teachers. The use of physical and (or) mental violence against students is not allowed.
                        4. For non-fulfillment or violation of the charter of the organization carrying out educational activities, internal rules, rules of residence in dormitories and boarding schools and other local regulations on the organization and implementation of educational activities, students may be subject to disciplinary measures - remark, reprimand, expulsion from educational organizations.

                        not teachers
                        I, in fact, suggest simply observing the existing law.
                        Add only to article 43, paragraph four, the concept of temporary exclusion as a disciplinary measure
                        hi
                      8. Octopus
                        Octopus April 1 2020 22: 32 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        I propose simply to comply with the existing law.

                        Is anyone serious about laws, especially Russian ones?

                        It seems that you really do not understand that education is in a cruel existential, not afraid of the word, crisis.

                        Including secondary education.

                        In ancient times, education was part of a large modernization project - first imperial, then Soviet. Universal education

                        1. Prepares soldiers and sergeants.
                        2. Prepares factory workers.
                        3. Provides the widest possible coverage of gifted children to saturate the elite - primarily scientific and engineering, to a lesser extent managerial.

                        Now, no old education tasks are relevant:

                        1. Mass training of soldiers and sergeants is not required - modern society has abandoned the mass army, and is impossible - the soldier’s work is too complicated and requires professional training. That is, it is possible without it, but it is better not to.
                        2. There is no industry, for mass service - conditionally, a courier - an 11-year-old secondary school is not needed.
                        3. The social lift is not only unnecessary, but also harmful, subjectively and objectively. Subjectively, the Russian "elites" are prone to feudalization, they have enough of their children, friends and mistresses for general positions, outsiders are not needed. Objectively, a country in which education is better than the economy prepares personnel for Germany. In Russia, the African economy, the young and too smart are objectively washed out of it, the money and energy for their education are simply donated by the economies of more developed countries.

                        So what should the school do? And for whom?
                      9. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 22: 46 New
                        +1
                        and indeed, in the Universe we are a grain of sand, meaning nothing for its existence smile
                        The wider the issue under discussion, the more serious justification for this is needed.
                        What you have raised is so wide that it goes beyond the scope of the forum.
                        In addition, perhaps again confusing cause and effect.
                        I’m talking about a specific problem - improving the quality of secondary education in modern conditions with relatively simple and feasible methods.
                        hi
                      10. Octopus
                        Octopus April 1 2020 23: 06 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        I’m talking about a specific problem - improving the quality of secondary education in modern conditions with relatively simple and feasible methods.

                        Unfortunately, in many issues, you should first discuss the concept, and only then focus on the details. Then it would be clearer that your
                        Quote: Avior
                        Rather realist

                        Quote: Avior
                        You interfere with others at the lesson, postponed for a week, disrupt the lesson, teach yourself or hire a tutor. And parents will react differently to complaints of behavior

                        Quote: Avior
                        just abide by the existing law.

                        do not combine at all. You are actually proposing a rejection of universal secondary education without any reasonable justification.
                      11. Avior
                        Avior April 1 2020 23: 21 New
                        +1
                        You are actually proposing a rejection of universal secondary education without any reasonable justification.

                        but in my opinion, just you, proposing to replace the educational school with a socialist school smile
                        the word actually, by the way, does not mean a fact, but a conclusion, in this case yours. Erroneous by the way smile
                        if you look at the law, it declares the right to education, and assigns the guarantee of this right to parents,
                        4. Parents (legal representatives) of minor students are required to:
                        1) ensure that children receive a general education; ...
                        one of the duties of which is to ensure the requirements
                        comply with the internal regulations of the organization engaged in educational activities, the rules of residence of students in boarding schools, the requirements of local regulations that establish the mode of study of students, the procedure for regulating educational relations between the educational organization and students and (or) their parents (legal representatives) and registration of occurrence, suspension and termination of these relationships;

                        therefore, I only propose, as it should be under the law, to demand the fulfillment of duties by parents, and not to assign, as is usual, their responsibilities to school.
                        and I don’t propose to deprive anyone of education
                        smile
                      12. Octopus
                        Octopus April 2 2020 08: 15 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Avior
                        but in my opinion, just you, proposing to replace the educational school with a socialist school

                        Strange, it seemed to me, I spoke quite clearly.
                        1. A school (mass) is not an educational institution. In fact is not, not I suggested. And what is written there in all torn pieces of paper does not matter.
                        2. The task of the school is not socialization (collective action skills, tolerance, God forgive me, etc.). The school's task is to look after the young.
                        Quote: Avior
                        if you look into the law

                        Are you from Germany, are you writing? Why look at him? What are the reasons to believe that someone is going to execute it?
                        Quote: Avior
                        demand parental responsibility

                        Who will demand from your parents? Department of Education Area? Who are all these people?
                        Quote: Avior
                        I do not propose to deprive someone of education

                        Suggest.
                        Quote: Avior
                        a camel can be brought to a well, but a camel cannot be made to get drunk
                        especially if the camel does not really need water
                        the camel will only interfere with drinking

                        You demand freedom of association for the school. That is, the child doesn’t like school - he went away (or will you keep his third year in the same class, play demobilization?). Yes, real schools do that. But real schools = elite schools. They have no task to learn all, even most. The task of the state education system is to cover just everyone. And for that all, To obtain last of all - The education system is ready to pay any price in terms of the level of education for the rest.

                        I am exaggerating somewhat, but this is really the most important problem of secondary education, the best education for a particular child or the best education for a minimal child. This is in countries where education is education. South Korea, Finland, etc. In Russia, as I poured out above, the conversation should begin with the fact that education does not exist at all, instead of it a branch of the children's room of the police. This is the only one alive school function. There are some educational institutions, purely enthusiastic. But they are not so approved.
  • cost
    cost April 2 2020 01: 45 New
    +2
    Avior (Sergey):a camel can be brought to a well, but a camel cannot be made to get drunk
    especially if the camel does not really need water
    the camel will only interfere with drinking

    Have you personally ever seen how camels behave at a watering place?
    I assure you such manners are not a sin to adopt for people. No crush, strict order - at first young animals come up to the water, then elderly and weakened animals, then healthy individuals, the Leaders drink last.
  • ser56
    ser56 April 1 2020 18: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Octopus
    Why should not? Why do you think it exists?

    start asking from district clinics for the level of health ... bully just what to do with smokers? alcoholics and drug addicts? Is the analogy clear?
  • ser56
    ser56 April 1 2020 18: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: Octopus
    Who do you propose to refuse responsibility? What is the responsibility? Why give it up?

    demagoguery ... bully parents are responsible for children, not school, etc. the latter provide an opportunity to learn willing and able ... hi
    1. Avior
      Avior April 1 2020 19: 02 New
      -2
      the main responsibility of the school is another Soviet relic
      Of course, everything should lie primarily with the parents
    2. Octopus
      Octopus April 1 2020 19: 27 New
      -2
      Quote: ser56
      parents are responsible for children, not school, etc. the latter provide an opportunity to learn willing and able ...

      What kind of crazy slogans? We seem to have established above that the school is responsible to the Department of Education. For what purpose does the Department of Education maintain schools? What might interest him in their work?
      start asking from district clinics for the level of health ...

      Do not understand. What does the clinic have to do with health? The lower it is, the better the clinic. What business can school go to education level? Who, in principle, may be interested in someone's level of education?
      1. Avior
        Avior April 1 2020 19: 47 New
        0
        We seem to have established above that the school is responsible to the Department of Education. For what purpose does the Department of Education maintain schools? What might interest him in their work?

        the quality of their education, essno
        For this and should be responsible
        but this is not at all equivalent to the grades of students at the end of school
        Do not understand. What does the clinic have to do with health? The lower it is, the better the clinic.
        - with free medicine, the thesis is incorrect
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 1 2020 19: 53 New
          -2
          Quote: Avior
          the quality of their education, essno

          Why do you think so?
          Quote: Avior
          For this and should be responsible

          Some kind of crazy approach. Who should?
          Who pays for secondary schools? What tasks can someone expect from schools?
          Quote: Avior
          but this is not at all equivalent to the grades of students at the end of school

          You wrote it yourself
          Quote: Avior
          school work is evaluated according to the results of students

          Have you heard the expression "Dagestani hundred-point fellows"? What is the “student result” in terms of school performance evaluation?
          1. ser56
            ser56 April 1 2020 20: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Octopus
            Have you heard the expression "Dagestani hundred-point fellows"?

            these emissions are easily found stat. analysis and stop ...
          2. Avior
            Avior April 1 2020 20: 06 New
            0
            it seems you are inattentively reading
            I am against the assessment of the school's work based on the results of graduates, which now exists
            need or enable the school to provide conditions for students to receive education, at least in terms of discipline
            but there is still a second problem
            if the child does not listen in the lesson and does not complete tasks, there will be no result of work with the most excellent in terms of teaching methods
        2. ser56
          ser56 April 1 2020 20: 01 New
          0
          Quote: Avior
          but this is not at all equivalent to the grades of students at the end of school

          for the cut there is an exam - this is the purpose of this system ...
          Quote: Avior
          - with free medicine, the thesis is incorrect

          at least someone understood ... love
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 1 2020 20: 04 New
            0
            Quote: ser56
            at least someone understood ...

            You understand that ..
      2. ser56
        ser56 April 1 2020 19: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Octopus
        We seem to have established above that the school is responsible to the Department of Education.

        we discuss the stupidity of reality ... do you know a joke about a giraffe? hi
        Quote: Octopus
        For what purpose does the Department of Education maintain schools? What might interest him in their activities?

        quality of graduates - i.e. the presence of a standard level of knowledge ....

        Quote: Octopus
        Who, in principle, may be interested in someone's level of education?

        Society, and in its person - regulatory bodies ... not the number of graduates is needed, but their quality .... hi
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 1 2020 20: 09 New
          -2
          Quote: ser56
          quality of graduates - i.e. the presence of a standard level of knowledge ....

          No. At best, their preparation for the exam. In the worst - the points that they will receive at the exam. This is not the same thing.
          Quote: ser56
          Society, and in its person - regulatory bodies ...

          What other regulatory bodies of society? The revizorro program?
          Quote: ser56
          these emissions are easily found stat. analysis and stop ...

          Who and why will find them and especially stop them?
          1. ser56
            ser56 April 1 2020 20: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Octopus
            No. At best, their preparation for the exam. In the worst - the points that they will receive at the exam. This is not the same thing.

            learn to understand what you read ... USE is a tool like any exam
            Quote: Octopus
            What other regulatory bodies of society? The revizorro program?

            Minobr
            Quote: Octopus
            Who and why will find them and especially stop them?

            they’re already doing this - there are oversight bodies in the Ministry of Education ... the scandal you described led to nullification of the results ...
          2. Octopus
            Octopus April 1 2020 20: 31 New
            -2
            Quote: ser56
            Examination is a tool like any exam

            At this point, you can make a long branch about the ratio of the exam and education, but it will lead us too far.
            Quote: ser56
            the scandal you described led to nullification of the results ...

            Some. I do not remember a single year without scandals on the exam.
            Quote: ser56
            Minobr

            Why do you call the Ministry of Education "the organ of society"? Has the society had something to do with his activities for the past how many years? Unified State Exam? FSES? Optimizing schools? Has this whole society got it?
          3. ser56
            ser56 April 2 2020 15: 44 New
            0
            Quote: Octopus
            you can make a long branch about the ratio of the exam and education

            you are funny - how can you compare the goal and the means? this is sophistry - the exam is an exam, i.e. means of independent verification of knowledge, i.e. the quality of the schools ... that's why they hate him so much ... bully
            think about it if you can - teachers taught and YOURSELF checked knowledge - abuse is not inevitable ... request
            Quote: Octopus
            I do not remember a single year without scandals on the exam.

            So what? this is normal - the rules always break ... just before the exam it was quiet ...
            Quote: Octopus
            Why do you call the Ministry of Education "the organ of society"

            then give your interpretation of the concept of society? does the power not enter into it? bully
            Quote: Octopus
            USE? GEFs? School optimization? Is this the whole society?

            This is the realization of a society’s request for quality education ... request you can demagogue, you can do something, and when you make mistakes it’s not inevitable ... Give your view the perfect system ... hi
  • Den717
    Den717 April 1 2020 17: 44 New
    +3
    Quote: Avior
    You interfere with others in the lesson - suspended for a week

    I would add to this measure an increase in demand from parents. Be he even the head of the city. And I completely agree - I earned the mark "2", to exhibit what I earned. Doesn't want a certificate, graduated with a certificate.
  • ser56
    ser56 April 1 2020 18: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Avior
    Soviet relic

    Bravo! finally, a brief but sane analysis, which is not in the article!
    Quote: Avior
    the organizer-educator must be a separate person, and

    exactly! a great mentor or overseer ... and he must have mechanisms to influence the blockhead and his parents! up to administrative ones - arrest, fine ..
    Quote: Avior
    that everyone should graduate with a certificate and

    Yes, each class must be transferred to exams, screening out those who are not able or do not want to study ...
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 1 2020 18: 21 New
      0
      Quote: ser56
      he must have mechanisms for influencing the gibber and his parents! up to administrative ones - arrest, fine ..

      Do you propose to make teachers a security officer with the functions of both a policeman and a judge, and equip pre-trial detention centers in schools, I understand correctly?
      1. ser56
        ser56 April 1 2020 18: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Octopus
        and equip pre-trial detention centers in schools,

        were earlier in RI - leaving after lessons, punishment cells ... request
        Quote: Octopus
        security officers with the functions of both a police officer and a judge

        ready to command a branch without disciplinary rights under the charter? Only the extra-compulsory methods of coercion remain - they are judged ... request
        I am waiting for your suggestions, only without snot about the kids, I have 4-ro, I will not lead ... bully
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 1 2020 19: 31 New
          -2
          Quote: ser56
          were earlier in RI - leaving after lessons, punishment cell

          Why did the education system exist in the Republic of Ingushetia? Why does it exist now?
          Quote: ser56
          ready to command a branch without disciplinary rights under the charter?

          What does "command" mean? What strange fantasies do you have about teachers?
          1. ser56
            ser56 April 1 2020 19: 56 New
            -1
            Quote: Octopus
            Why did the education system exist in the Republic of Ingushetia? Why does it exist now?

            has something changed in purpose in essence? bully
            Quote: Octopus
            What does "command" mean? What strange fantasies do you have about teachers?

            it seems that you have neither pedagogical nor parental experience ... I don’t see the point of discussing your words without specificity ... hi
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 1 2020 20: 16 New
              -2
              Quote: ser56
              has something changed in purpose in essence?

              Of course. In RI, education, with the exception of recent decades, existed for the training of officers and officials. Accordingly, for war and for preparing for war. Therefore.
              1. Education was not universal.
              2. Education was privilegeprovided by the sovereign, and in return was expected service - and from the student, and from his parents.

              What do you see similarities with the current situation?

              Quote: ser56
              it seems that you have neither pedagogical nor parental experience ... I don’t see the point of discussing your words without specificity ...

              Oh my goodness I won’t even ask how your parental experience is combined with the pre-trial detention center. There is no juvenile justice on you.
              1. ser56
                ser56 April 2 2020 15: 38 New
                0
                Quote: Octopus
                In RI education, with the exception of recent decades,

                you are funny - education is developing, so you need to look at the trend and the result ....
                Quote: Octopus
                existed for the training of officers and officials. Accordingly, for war and for preparing for war.

                1) delirium .... engineers, scientists, economists, doctors were trained in the Republic of Ingushetia ... for reference, there were up to 100 students at the end of the journey to the Republic of Ingushetia ... request
                2) at the same time, they were able to create a sane officer corps in the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR could not before the Second World War ... request
                Quote: Octopus
                Education was a privilege granted by the sovereign, and in return service was expected - both from the student and from his parents.

                1) then the education was paid, so you are wrong
                2) for those who received it for free - it is now ... but in the USSR there was compulsory testing ...
                Quote: Octopus
                Education was not universal.

                it becomes such as society develops, in the Republic of Ingushetia it was planned in the 20s to make the initial universal ... by the way, there were few literate men in Russian provinces, especially in cities ...
                as far as villages, read Zhukov’s memoir - those who wish received it completely ...
                Quote: Octopus
                What do you see similarities with the current situation?

                all the same - education is:
                1) the way of training for society
                2) a means of educating youth
                Quote: Octopus
                There is no juvenile justice on you.

                not surprised - for such types of smart people like you this is the way out ... bully
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 2 2020 15: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: ser56
                  you are funny - education is developing,

                  It was not you who offered the punishment cell because he was in RI? Rods, by the way, have forgotten, this is a more modern measure. In the United States, it is not always banned everywhere.
                  Quote: ser56
                  at the end of the journey in RI there were up to 100 students ...

                  Quote: Octopus
                  except for the last decades

                  And these 100 thousand were found in punishment cells or what?
                  Quote: ser56
                  at the same time, they were able to create a sane officer corps in the Republic of Ingushetia;

                  Where is it from?
                  Quote: ser56
                  then the education was paid, so you're wrong

                  Paid is not equal to universal. Suddenly.
                  Quote: ser56
                  in the USSR there was compulsory mining ...

                  Determine what you are talking about. Earlier it was about secondary education, specifically about the gymnasium. Not about a real school.
                  Quote: ser56
                  in the Republic of Ingushetia in the 20s they planned to make universal the initial ...

                  We are talking about central vocational schools, not about gymnasiums. But CPNs never had 100% coverage.
                  Quote: ser56
                  1) the way of training for society
                  2) a means of educating youth

                  In RI, education was neither one nor the other.
                  Quote: ser56
                  not surprised - for such types of smart people like you this is the way out ...

                  It is always good to see when tough hand proponents receive this tough hand. Dreams should come true
                  1. ser56
                    ser56 April 2 2020 18: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: Octopus
                    It was not you who offered the punishment cell because he was in RI? Rods, by the way, have forgotten, this is a more modern measure. In the United States, it is not always banned everywhere.

                    you are funny - see. reality - they introduce not just rods, but fines and a prison for quarantine ... but for not wanting to study it is not necessary? bully
                    Quote: Octopus
                    And these 100 thousand were found in punishment cells or what?

                    yes, for serious wrongdoing ... in the USSR they expelled from the Komsomol ... repeat

                    Quote: Octopus
                    Where is it from?

                    aren't we talking about education? request Removed the rods and stuff - as a result, with 4 classes in the marshals ... request

                    Quote: Octopus
                    Paid is not equal to universal. Suddenly.

                    unless for you ... bully
                    Quote: Octopus
                    But CPNs never had 100% coverage.

                    you don’t hear - there were plans ... but 1MB ...
                    Quote: Octopus
                    In RI, education was neither one nor the other.

                    by no means
                    Quote: Octopus
                    when tough arm supporters get that tough arm.

                    you have problems with terms - stiffness and stupidity are different ... bully
                    in general, you have nothing reasonable - so scraps of knowledge and demagoguery - I finish communication ... hi
  • rocket757
    rocket757 April 1 2020 16: 58 New
    10
    A problem that will come back to us all very soon.
    С
    All guardians for children should be gathered into one ... a closed educational institution with their offspring and let them boil there in their own juice.
    And we would have a classic SOVIET education, upbringing, good
    1. ser56
      ser56 April 1 2020 18: 13 New
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      And we would have a classic SOVIET education, upbringing, the very good

      Seriously? what is his charm? forgot pioneer or Komsomol meetings? comprehensive plans? bully political information? Tormented by the life of teachers? Of which units knew the subject ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 1 2020 18: 16 New
        +3
        You are simply out of luck or do not know anything about the subject matter. It happens.
        1. ser56
          ser56 April 1 2020 18: 45 New
          -3
          Quote: rocket757
          You just got unlucky

          lived in Siberian Athens hi
          Quote: rocket757
          or do not know anything about the subject of discussion. It happens.

          1) graduated from high school in 1977 ...
          2) the two seniors have already finished school ...
          3) I understand that in addition to nostalgia for youth - you have nothing more to say ... hi
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 1 2020 19: 14 New
            +3
            What can I say, what can I say ... everything is the same as with many others, which are in military towns and in different cities ... i.e. different teachers taught and all away from the capitals. All the rules, I entered the Polytechnic without tutors, the knowledge base that was given at school was quite enough .... by the way, the scholarship was, at the same time, a lab assistant, there, too.
            And what about socially "useful-stressful" affairs? so never bother with them, or rather the bolt laid down on them ... there were troubles, but with minimal losses I went through them, because I was in the top three of the course specialists.
            In general, the school gave ALL the necessary knowledge, it was necessary to TAKE them, and not skip past.
            All sorts of social troubles, this is, usually, for the "elite" who did not have enough brains for anything else ... although there were exceptions.
            In principle, the upbringing of adolescents as a single community was extremely important when it did not go over into the plane of idle talk and formalism.
            Going with classmates to a collective farm, harvesting, collecting scrap metal, waste paper, just instilling collectivism ... all this was not harmful, just the opposite.
            My opinion, and so, everyone decides for himself what to remember and how to evaluate.
            1. ser56
              ser56 April 1 2020 20: 04 New
              0
              Quote: rocket757
              In general, the school gave ALL the necessary knowledge, it was necessary to TAKE them, and not skip past.

              it is now, but there is no coercion mechanism ... or do you believe in the ability of the bulk of shkolota to study without coercion?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 April 1 2020 21: 25 New
                +1
                What is the "enforcement mechanism"? Father's belt?
                Nothing SIGNIFICANT more, it is impossible to suppose ... although this method, past me, studied without tension.
                And everything else, this is pf-e, the parents were not concerned about all kinds of public tinsel .... what they themselves were interested in was involved in that.
                It was interesting, in general, circles, clubs, sections, trains for rallies and competitions, a collective farm for tomatoes and watermelons ......
                Something like this, in general. At the same time, he studies quite well.
                And the KNOWLEDGE was given to us very extensive .... albeit with a slight bias, but in the future no one forbade self-education. On the finished basis, this all normally fell.
                1. Caretaker
                  Caretaker April 1 2020 21: 47 New
                  +1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Going with classmates to a collective farm, harvesting, collecting scrap metal, waste paper, just instilling collectivism ... all this was not harmful, just the opposite.

                  Quote: rocket757
                  ... to the collective farm for tomatoes and watermelons ......

                  Freedom - as a conscious need?
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 April 1 2020 22: 25 New
                    +1
                    The question is - does freedom happen as an individual’s realized Wishlist?
                    Everyone gets freedom as much as they give him .... less, please, and nowhere else and never.
                    You can try .... feeling of FREE fall !!! Usually it is not long, depending on the height from which you "stepped", ts!
                    1. Caretaker
                      Caretaker April 1 2020 22: 48 New
                      +1
                      So I do not mind. Man cannot exist outside of society.
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 April 2 2020 01: 42 New
                        +1
                        Himself like that. The maximum "free flight", to which I agree, is before the cotton of the parachute .... but Schaub did not relax something and did not lose his boots.
                2. ser56
                  ser56 April 2 2020 15: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  What is the "enforcement mechanism"? Father's belt?

                  at a certain age, the most effective mechanism ... request
                  Quote: rocket757
                  And KNOWLEDGE, they gave us very extensive

                  from your point of view ... request you probably know a couple of languages ​​fluently, read in Latin Virgil or in Greek Sophocles, write an essay on 10 pages without errors and MS Word ... hi I will say right away - I do not repeat
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 April 2 2020 17: 26 New
                    0
                    To whom it is given, and took it .... so, for example, when in teams they solved crosswords in the magazine "Science and Life", I was always driven away, because in one I solved faster than everyone else. Note, there was NO Google then. Until now, Vic does not have to climb to find answers to most common questions about different things. At work, in general, they called a walking guide.
                    I have a solid, high-quality Soviet technical education, but I am not confused in classical world literature, I will find the star I need in the sky, I will not get lost in the taiga, I will not "miss" in the pantheon of Greek gods, and much, much more ...
                    Virgil, Homer leave to specialists .... to know everything and everything is not available to anyone.
                    Soviet education was of high quality, fundamental ..... who and what managed to get, what and how to use, is an individual question. I had different classmates, classmates, their life was different in different ways, but initially everyone had equal opportunities.
                    1. ser56
                      ser56 April 2 2020 18: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: rocket757
                      At work, in general, was called a walking guide.

                      good memory is good! request
                      Quote: rocket757
                      Soviet education was qualitative, fundamental

                      I'm too lazy to destroy your faith ... hi

                      Quote: rocket757
                      initially everyone had equal opportunities.

                      stupid question - did everyone have the same abilities (memory), wealth, health? repeat
                      Quote: rocket757
                      To whom that is given, he took it.

                      who knows what could be, but did not happen? request
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 April 2 2020 19: 42 New
                        0
                        The possibilities were the same!
                        One classmate in academies now, another, my deskmate, always pulled him ... he wasn’t given the chance to become an academician, he was engaged in water sports, he traveled around the world, he has medals and titles, he has a wonderful family ....
                        They didn’t live and study in the capitals, families were the most ordinary, and some had to start working early ...
                        Studied and worked, it was normal. Everyone built his own life, and the state helped in this.
                        Another country was not ideal, but certainly, everything was a lot of humane.
                      2. ser56
                        ser56 April 2 2020 20: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: rocket757
                        The possibilities were the same!

                        Quote: rocket757
                        my desk neighbor, always pulled him

                        do you understand yourself request
                        Quote: rocket757
                        but certainly, everything was a lot of humane.

                        what is meant by this - if lies and doublethink? Not tired of running in turns? Listen to equality and watch shop windows of Birch? Buy at a flea market?
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 April 2 2020 22: 00 New
                        0
                        So the neighbors also dreamed in geyrop and lacy shorts ... but nothing is given for nothing, this is an indisputable fact.
                        What was it in check stores, without which it was impossible to live ???
                        Now it has happened, everything is there, then what was in short supply and WHAT? Has life become better?
                        Everything is relative .....
                        I always said and wrote that the USSR was not a paradise on earth, but the fact that we all got into it was an order of magnitude worse, although sausages and junk are now in the shops.
                        We started with education and finish it.
                        Then it was decent, affordable ..... now, with rare exceptions, this is a list of services that are limited, and often read empty.
                      4. ser56
                        ser56 April 3 2020 16: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: rocket757
                        So the neighbors also dreamed in geyrop and lace shorts

                        the example is not a good one - despite all the costs, life in the Russian Federation is much more well-fed and comfortable than in the USSR!
                        Quote: rocket757
                        but nothing is given for nothing, it is an indisputable fact.

                        who argues - however, right now, what has been said about socialism is realized to a much greater extent - payment according to work ... request
                        Quote: rocket757
                        What was it in check stores, without which it was impossible to live ???

                        with this formulation of the question you are better off in the zone ... request
                        Quote: rocket757
                        Has life become better?

                        yes, and noticeably! if you look around, you can see the number and quality of cars, roads, etc. So, for example, during the time of the Russian Federation, more paved roads were built than in the USSR request Living space per person increased by 1,5 times ... etc.
                        Quote: rocket757
                        we all got involved, an order of magnitude worse

                        able to substantiate your postulate? hi
                        Quote: rocket757
                        Then it was worthy, affordable ....

                        then there were fewer students at times ...
                        Quote: rocket757
                        Now, with rare exceptions, this is a list of services that are limited, and often read empty.

                        able to substantiate your thesis? hi while I see only emotions! request
                      5. rocket757
                        rocket757 April 3 2020 18: 31 New
                        0
                        Each statement has real, objective confirmation.
                        1. The lack of unemployment.
                        2. Absolute social guarantees from the state.
                        3. Financial stability, the ability to plan for years to come.
                        4. Guaranteed, FREE, honey service.
                        5. Equal opportunities for all segments of the population.
                        And so on, so on, so on. Not without jambs, which were also not enough, but they could be corrected with due diligence.
                        About the "chosen ones" can also be enumerated, it was, but not up to the cosmic-arrogant size, they could not be deployed anywhere ... they could give a hat, control from above WAS!
                        SOMETHING LIKE THIS! It turned out to see everyone .....
                      6. ser56
                        ser56 April 3 2020 18: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: rocket757
                        has real, objective confirmation.

                        debatable ....
                        Quote: rocket757
                        1. The lack of unemployment.

                        people were forced to work and paid minuscule - 50% of the salary went to public funds that distributed ... request
                        Quote: rocket757
                        2. Absolute social guarantees from the state.

                        Are you seriously ? Remember the level of healthcare? Red Soviet tooth, treatment thereof without anesthesia ...
                        Quote: rocket757
                        3. Financial stability, the ability to plan for years to come.

                        what if money reform again? request Or a price increase ...
                        Quote: rocket757
                        4. Guaranteed, FREE, honey service.

                        Remember the level of healthcare? Red Soviet tooth, treatment thereof without anesthesia ...
                        what about medicine? finding the right one was a problem ... And again, for some it’s better - in Sverdlovsk there were OKB-1 and OKB-2 (for superiors) ... repeat
                        Quote: rocket757
                        5. Equal opportunities for all segments of the population.

                        lies ... I’ll remind you about the Arbat district or who entered MGIMO and others ....
                        Quote: rocket757
                        but they could be corrected with due diligence.

                        somehow they grew and burst the USSR, AND THE BEGINNING KILLED request
                        Quote: rocket757
                        but not to space-impudent sizes, it was not enough where to develop ..

                        Seriously? Do you remember Gorby’s cottage in Foros?
                      7. ser56
                        ser56 April 3 2020 18: 48 New
                        0
                        ok, to convince you I see no reason - live in the past hi
                      8. rocket757
                        rocket757 April 3 2020 19: 40 New
                        0
                        Do not forget the past, Schaub do not repeat mistakes in the future! soldier
    2. ser56
      ser56 April 2 2020 15: 54 New
      0
      Quote: rocket757
      to the collective farm for tomatoes and watermelons ......

      it’s fun in youth ... but they drove on beets and carrots, and the end of September in Siberia is cold and white flies ... and I also understood that someone would get money for our work ... request at least they paid a month at the institute, but what's good is that educated young people work? Somehow it’s not necessary now, maybe then they didn’t close their unwillingness and ability to work with an urban impulse? ... repeat
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 2 2020 19: 44 New
        0
        By the way, I had to collect turnips, not far from Leningrad .... I hate it since then.
        1. ser56
          ser56 April 2 2020 20: 15 New
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          By the way, turnip

          in my opinion it was a school of mismanagement ... repeat
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 April 2 2020 22: 03 New
            0
            I do not argue with that. It was not in vain that the fined party and others referred to agriculture.
            Objectively, not objectively, it was still an "ambush" .... again, with rare exceptions.
          2. ser56
            ser56 April 3 2020 17: 04 New
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            It was not in vain that the fined party and others referred to agriculture.

            do you understand the nonsense of the situation in the USSR? repeat Why has agriculture become marginalized? Let me remind you - and the Republic of Ingushetia, and now the Russian Federation sells food abroad .... and the Soviet Union bought, and in terrible proportions ... request
            My answer is why - in agriculture it is difficult to attribute real work, as in industry - the crop does not grow and is not stored, cows do not milk, etc. if there is no reasonable organization, when there is no master ... request
          3. rocket757
            rocket757 April 3 2020 18: 19 New
            0
            The absence of a master, individual or collective, is serious. Even more serious, the absence of a direct, constant, stable, interest of this owner in the end result of labor ... this is a complete "ambush" for any business, especially such a tense, difficult one that the workers of the fields have always had.
            In general, a whole bunch of reasons that ruined our agriculture .....
            There were exceptions, but this is absolutely contrary, and not thanks to the system.
            It is necessary to objectively consider the facts, and not to smear everything in a row only in white or black.
            Agriculture is a large, eternal puncture of the period of Soviet power. One of ....
          4. ser56
            ser56 April 3 2020 18: 38 New
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            lack of direct, constant, stable, interest of this owner in the final result of labor.

            this was after the creation of collective farms ...
            Quote: rocket757
            It is necessary to objectively consider the facts, and not to smear everything in a row only in white or black.

            you can look for 100 reasons, but you can see the main one ... like Napoleon - Syr, gunpowder has ended - The remaining reasons are not needed ... request
            Quote: rocket757
            Один из

            Namely, in fact, there were only punctures ... the richest country was brought to insanity ... hi
          5. rocket757
            rocket757 April 3 2020 19: 09 New
            0
            It always happens when a task is entrusted or not an expert takes it, but an ideologically correct face! who are interested only in career growth and nothing more. This misfortune covered us everywhere.
          6. ser56
            ser56 April 3 2020 19: 19 New
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            This misfortune covered us everywhere.

            Very accurately said! love
            And it was originally! The entire first GIL government did not have any management experience! Of the Bolsheviks, the most adequate are Krasin and Krizhizhanovsky - but both engineers and both managers until 1917
          7. rocket757
            rocket757 April 3 2020 19: 37 New
            0
            The period of the first five-year plans is characterized by the fact that they knew how to attract old, experienced cadres, specialists from abroad, and did not pretend to be know-it-alls ... as often happened later, but in industry this was less noticeable, because the "Soviet generals of industry" were young and did not consider it shameful to learn from competent people! some remained cool specialists and good organizers, who saved and launched the industry into a difficult wartime! There were facts and exactly the opposite, but less and less.
            It was much more difficult with agriculture, because the peasant’s way of life was completely overturned, he will learn how to do it right, there was NOT ONE WHO! And then it went. So many times strengthened and re-strengthened the village \ collective farms, that even those village leaders who learned to work in a new way could do little because of any party leaders who needed records, awards and banners, instead of the painstaking work of the peasant \ collective farmer, who alone could bring normal indicators \ yields!
            In short, a difficult topic, everything is not clear to the end.
          8. ser56
            ser56 April 3 2020 20: 15 New
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            that they were able to attract old, experienced personnel,

            yes, but when the failures went up, they came up with the Industrial Party and dispersed / planted a lot of specialists ... request
            Quote: rocket757
            In short, a difficult topic, everything is not clear to the end.

            you complicate - the answers are on the surface and you have listed them ... repeat
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard April 1 2020 23: 06 New
    +3
    Quote: ser56
    Tormented by the life of teachers?

    What is better now?
    Quote: ser56
    Of which units knew the subject ...

    It is not true. And then, and now there are both.
    1. ser56
      ser56 April 2 2020 20: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Tank Hard
      What is better now?

      Did I say that?
      Quote: Tank Hard
      It is not true. And then, and now there are both.

      I'm too lazy to argue, the more you yourself recognized in fact, too .. request
  • polar fox
    polar fox April 1 2020 17: 06 New
    +5
    Yesterday I "read" a short course of the Second World War to one graduate of a university of culture ... it's just cool, she knew nothing, nothing at all about this War ... for her there were many revelations about the fact that not the Germans, but the whole of Europe flooded for free ... how should I feel about her "teachers"?
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 1 2020 18: 04 New
    +4
    Again, some philosophical thoughts. To start / not to start, to give, not to give ....

    The party clearly said: An educated person is not needed, a consumer is needed.

    Mass attendance certification, reports, school reductions,

    Many acquaintances simply ran away from schools because of a small salary. Someone leads (women mostly), but they just have nowhere to go ...
    And training courses at the institute rise in price by 50% per year
  • Tests
    Tests April 1 2020 18: 14 New
    +6
    Dear author! Forced to repeat what I wrote on the site several times. Our country is huge, living conditions are different, each people has their own ideas about black and white, even in every profession in neighboring regions of the Russian Federation, and even in the same city, at different enterprises, in one profession, the working conditions and wage conditions are different (I on the example of my native Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk region). And if we take a time frame of 10-20 years, then, many times I suggested on the website to consider historical events, as in the USSR - for five years. 1940 is a little different from 1945, 1990 from 1995, 2000 from 2005 - agree?
    There is an Arkhangelsk branch of NArFU (Northern Arctic Federal University) in Severodvinsk, it trains teachers, but, you know what a squiggle, there are not enough teachers in Severodvinsk for all specialties. The settlement of the former Severodvinsk LPH - Beloe Ozero belongs to Severodvinsk, leading to it "the most beautiful railway in the Russian Federation", only 22 km from Vodogon station to Beloe Ozero station. The school is still alive there, subordinate to the Severodvinsk Department of Education. What kind of tutoring is there for money? The answer is no. The Severodvinsk Department of Education also includes a school in the village of Sopka (State of the Order of Lenin Central training ground of the Russian Navy, the explosion in its water area 08.08.1919 was discussed by everything, the sea, by the way, is still closed there), which is 1,5 km from Nyonoksa. What kind of tutoring is there for money? The answer is no. And in the villages on the right bank of the Northern Dvina, along the banks of the Pinega and Onega, there are classes of 2-4 students. And the parents of those students have no money at all. Agricultural enterprises are bankrupt, most of the timber industry enterprises are barely alive, bauxite and basalt mining enterprises have died.
    And at the same time, the beloved President for the whole country in November 2019 said that he achieved that teachers in Russia receive the average salary in the region. As I wrote on "V.O." Several times, my wife in an ordinary school in Severodvinsk (not a lyceum or a gymnasium), with complete northern, with 1 category, with more than 30 years of experience, for 24 hours a week with a rate of 18 hours a week, gets 24 rubles. .. I passed the medical examination in November 000. I talked with the former teacher of my youngest daughter from Lyceum No. 2019 - Physics and Mathematics. She has a class leadership, leadership of an association of teachers - physicists in the city, with more than 17 years of experience, with 30 hours a week on hand - 25 rubles, I saw the calculation sheets with my own eyes. The average salary in the Arkhangelsk region according to Rosstat in 34 is from 000 to 2019 rubles. The question is, for which cruciferous vegetable does the Russian Federation have a system of Plenipotentiaries of the President of the Russian Federation? How and who submits reports to Rosstat - starting with the head of the Education Department of Severodvinsk and ending with the Minister of Education of the Arkhangelsk Region, and why are they not under investigation until today? At least someone in Rosstat reads this reporting? Who and how in the Government of the region lays down the figures for financing education and submits these figures for approval to the Regional Duma and why are they still not under investigation? And a gloomy cloud of boys and girls in the blue uniforms of the prosecutor's office (whose pension is according to the same law as the military - like sailors, that the rector's asses in the cold seas, or even two warm, but to the retirement of prosecutors, thanks to the President of the Russian Federation, as well as former employees The FSB and FSO, the lowering rate is not accepted, unlike submariners, and in Severodvinsk for 46 years of work, prosecutors receive more than 000 rubles' worth of pensions) for which vegetable? Someone who monitors the implementation of laws in the Russian Federation?
    About 4 years ago, a girl, a primary school teacher, came to his wife’s school and received a lift of 1 rubles in September. In October, she received her first salary. In December, she was no longer at school. Although, for 000 million rubles, even a one-room apartment in Severodvinsk could not be bought. So it turns out that there are measures of social support for young teachers, the salary, according to the President of the Russian Federation, is average for the region, and there are no teachers ... The same system in medicine - in the Severodvinsk City Children's Clinical Hospital of 000 surgeons - 1 doctors - all pensioners. And like teachers fill out magazines (with their hands and in an electronic journal, which works for some reason until 000 hours), write the medical history in a card with a pen, and then in a computer. Why did computerization take place - in order to save time! ... One doctor is on vacation, one is on advanced training - each one has 000-8 specializations, which, every five years, except for lectures, must be confirmed in practical classes, and then write tests in 5 hours. Confirmation of each specialization is 23-5 weeks of travel to Arkhangelsk. The last girl came to practice in the surgical department 6 years ago. But she got married, gave birth and stayed in Arkhangelsk ... And how our doctors travel to the regions of the region for 2-3 days and what they see there: medicine in the Arkhangelsk region is almost on its side. At the same time, in Severodvinsk, Mezensky, Pinezhsky and Leshukonsky districts, the northern allowances and coefficients are the largest in the region and leave additional at 4 days, and not at 11, as throughout the region. At the same time, the Medical University in Arkhangelsk is alive. But there are no doctors in Severodvinsk by state, neither in city hospitals, nor in factory hospitals, which the FMBA of the Russian Federation obey. According to the President, our doctors receive 2 average salaries in the region at the rate. Hurray, May decrees !!!
    Many visitors to "V.O." - medicine is not needed in modern Russia, and smart educated creative young people who can collect information and analyze it are not only unnecessary for today's Russia, but also dangerous. Otherwise, they will ask: why the laws that the President of the Russian Federation signs are often suspended by him, when there is a little more money in the country - public sector salaries are not indexed annually to the inflation rate (including military ones), pensions for working pensioners are not indexed, pensions for military pensioners do not grow 2 times a year, the retirement age has been raised, money is not invested in the real sector of the economy, they work in sewing zones, but there are no masks in pharmacies? And this is where in Severodvinsk, where is the nuclear-hazardous production? I don’t even remember the villages and settlements of the timber industry enterprises, the small half-stations of the Northern Railway ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 April 1 2020 18: 24 New
    +2
    It has always been a mystery to me why some teachers have a quieter class, while others have a class on their heads. Moreover, the former never raise their voices. Children also see the bazaar hidden appearance of some, and the inner strength of others.
    1. Avior
      Avior April 1 2020 18: 59 New
      +1
      there are certain qualities at the subconscious level
      but you can’t count on them, it’s unprofessional, and it doesn’t always work
      Nobody conducts the selection before admission, and this is manifested with experience, as a rule
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 1 2020 19: 05 New
    +5
    Thanks to Eugene from a thinking teacher for the topic. ... But, he is clearly far from understanding the problems "from the inside". ...

    The main problem is "children don't learn!" They understand that a 9th grade certificate will be given to everyone (even those who do not know how to read and write), they cannot be expelled until the age of 15. Therefore, you can enjoy any instincts with ABSOLUTELY impunity!

    The second problem is that huge budget flows are spent on all sorts of meaningless crap: seminars, courses, "institutes for raising ...", "pedagogical developments", hundreds of "institutes". As a practicing teacher, I say - this is an ABSOLUTELY waste of money. This has NO effect on the level of education.

    The school rests on the madmen who, at the expense of their personal lives, personal money and the interests of the family, despite everything try to make this world a better place! Other people just run away. Amen!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Caretaker
      Caretaker April 1 2020 22: 01 New
      0
      Quote: samarin1969
      The second problem is that huge budget flows are spent on all sorts of meaningless crap: seminars, courses, "institutes for raising ...", "pedagogical developments", hundreds of "institutes". As a practicing teacher, I say - this is an ABSOLUTELY waste of money. This has NO effect on the level of education.

      Perhaps the "problem" arises from the inefficient use of resources? The opportunity to improve qualifications at the expense of the employer is an indispensable condition for the effective work of any large organization, in the long term.
      1. Avior
        Avior April 1 2020 22: 48 New
        0
        if it’s real training, not imitation
        1. Caretaker
          Caretaker April 1 2020 22: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Avior
          if it’s real training, not imitation

          This is what I wrote about in a previous comment.
    3. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 1 2020 23: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: samarin1969
      As a practice teacher

      And what is a theoretician teacher ?! I admit that the professor is a theoretician, but I didn’t hear about the teacher, I thought that any teacher is a practitioner because of the specifics of the profession. repeat
      1. samarin1969
        samarin1969 April 2 2020 07: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Tank Hard
        Quote: samarin1969
        As a practice teacher

        And what is a theoretician teacher ?! I admit that the professor is a theoretician, but I didn’t hear about the teacher, I thought that any teacher is a practitioner because of the specifics of the profession. repeat


        Unfortunately, "theorists" write textbooks and lead at all levels, including the ministerial. They also occupied the media and regularly give advice to everyone. In general, parents and leaders have a very "twisted" view of the school. request
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo April 1 2020 19: 55 New
    +1
    Very good, balanced article.
    Thanks to the author for the raised topic.
    I want to add a few thoughts on my own:
    1. First, terminology. I believe that the teaching profession itself in the sense of “teacher” has become obsolete. For the teacher, or more precisely the Teacher, is rather a moral and ethical imperative. Some people may become teachers, but some may become teachers. The author very correctly explained in his article why there used to be teachers and sometimes teachers. But now, taking into account the information revolution, which I will talk about a little lower, the typical level of a PedVuza graduate is a teacher. Yes, it is the teacher, that is, the person who knows and, most importantly, knows how to correctly teach teaching material. Owning a teaching methodology, reasonably dosing the training load, having in its arsenal a set of exercises for better mastering the material. A professional teacher who prepares a student from “still to this day” is the basic unit of the school. Perhaps a particular teacher for some students may become a teacher, and for some, a teacher, but for this the young teacher himself needs to go a long way in moral development, and, interestingly, with each new student he will have to go this way first.
    2. Perhaps someone did not notice, but here the information revolution swept through, leaving behind a mass of open doors. In practice, this means that the typical consumption of educational information is now not a problem at all - the Web is full of sources, ranging from copies of textbooks of almost any year of release, ending with clips in “you pipe”, where popularizers from science will perfectly tell and interpret almost any material . I will say this - personally from my point of view, now studying is much more interesting than during my childhood. Immeasurably more interesting. That is why, the school teacher the farther, the more will feel the competitive pressure of colleagues who have switched to the Network. In a good way, a young teacher should be aware of all the novelties that appear in the information field and not only in specialized literature, but also on general education channels and all kinds of scientific schools. But, and we are gradually moving to a very important point - it takes TIME!
    3. Time. A modern teacher sorely lacks time for, in fact, teaching, because a typical teacher is busy with a lot of related work, starting from the elements of education, ending with monitoring children. Personally, my point of view is that loading a teacher with non-core work is the most natural wrecking by the Ministry of Education. The teacher should not engage in raising children and he should not follow them. This is the task of the family - fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers, aunts and uncles. Ah, are you busy? You are working? Oh, well, everything worked out right, damn it, that there is no time to work out with your own child? Well, well, then why did you give birth to him if you DO NOT HAVE TIME to pay attention to him ?! You have time for a dog, for wheels in a credit washer, but not for your own child. And therefore, are you transferring your responsibilities for his education and control to the school in general and the teacher in particular? Well, well done, the teacher is not a man, he has neither his children, nor his domestic duties, nor his personal life, why should he, yes - should he only look after your children? Here you are very mistaken. The teacher must correctly, clearly, clearly, efficiently teach the material. This is his only and absolutely undeniable duty, for which three or four skins can be removed from him. Also on the school grounds, the teacher is responsible for the children entrusted to him, but outside the school - here come standard rules that apply to all citizens of the Russian Federation and do not need to turn the teacher into a mother hen, which will stop the mistakes of cuckoo parents.
    4. The position of the state, paragraph 1. The state, I think, should be on the side of common sense. If the basic unit of the school is a teacher, then the public school teacher must be protected by the state. What does this mean in practice? Well, for example, an attempt on the honor, dignity, health and life of a teacher should be equated with a similar misconduct in relation to a civil servant of a certain rank. That is, not a simple insult / bully, but with aggravating ones. And when for a dolbo * ba son who dared to raise his hand at the teacher, dad, who raised such an heiress, will fly a fine of a few lyamas, then perhaps the family will take care of raising their own child. And then it comes to the ridiculous - the teacher who was attacked by the student, according to the Ministry of Education, is to blame himself - he did not find, you see, an approach to him. If you want a special approach - identify your child in a private school and pay money for round dances that will drive around him, and a public school is about something else.
    5. The position of the state, paragraph 2. The state is not obliged to teach idiots. When I was small, my father very much chased me for the "four" in behavior, and for the "three" I once grabbed the "bream". I could not understand at all - that he was so "loaded" and only then found out that under Stalin they could quite have been expelled from school for bad behavior. Just take it and kick it out. For me, it's a good practice. A school is an informational and cultural environment in which children come to receive knowledge and there is no place for inadequate debauchs who not only do not want to learn, but also interfere with others. Yes, in order to drive a student out of school, there must be very good reason, but the school should have such an opportunity. Do you want to learn and stop others from learning? Go, take a walk, get smarter - come. Moreover, we are not talking about transferring to another school, namely, the expulsion of inadequate to the street - until he becomes wiser.
    6. The position of the state, paragraph 3. Salary. What can I say if Yuri Polyakov has this phrase: "The teacher is legalized poverty." The author is absolutely right - the teacher has practically no career growth. But there is a length of service, there is the possibility of providing benefits. In short - there would be the will of the state, and it is possible to raise the salary of a teacher so that a seasoned teacher will receive many times more than a beginner, and rightly so.
    Perhaps my thoughts will seem harsh and emotional to some, it may also seem that I forgot about the duties of teachers, no, I didn’t forget, and there is something to ask from them, but first you need to create conditions and determine the rules of the game, and then ask .
    I think so.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 1 2020 20: 01 New
    -1
    The article is a set of platitudes long known to all those who are even a little interested in the problems of modern education in the Russian Federation. The author does not give an answer why the country, whose leadership is positioned as her successor to the USSR, where the best education was now, is woven somewhere in the middle of the list according to the quality of education. sad
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 1 2020 23: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Radikal
      The article is a set of platitudes long known to all those who are even a little interested in the problems of modern education in the Russian Federation. The author does not give an answer why the country, whose leadership is positioned as its successor to the USSR, where the best education was now, is woven somewhere in the middle of the list according to the quality of education

      So give us an answer, and we will listen, evaluate, if he (advice) is efficient, we will begin to adopt valuable experience. wink
  • bandabas
    bandabas April 1 2020 21: 37 New
    0
    I'll be honest. Those who taught me (and they still work), everything is clear. Young do not teach. Just work out your watch. Not all, but most. My daughter is 15, I can’t just understand the meaning of the tasks, and how to solve them.
    1. Avior
      Avior April 1 2020 22: 51 New
      0
      There may be another explanation for this.
      the task that a first-grader solves in three minutes, a student in half an hour, a professor - never
      odtchshsvd - what is the next letter? smile
      1. Archon
        Archon April 7 2020 09: 05 New
        0
        or the letter d or the letters ksp ptk akm ozk svd pkm pkp pkhd vdv btr bmp rmp dshb pmp mpl - but such a student and professor will never master
        1. Avior
          Avior April 7 2020 09: 22 New
          0
          There should be a letter d
          I gave this task to a pair of professors I knew, they could not
          Excess knowledge interfered, it seems
          1. Archon
            Archon April 7 2020 09: 27 New
            0
            and there is also a phenomenon called "professional cretinism", when a person looks at any information through the prism of his profession.
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 April 2 2020 00: 12 New
    0
    Most bachelor-educators study not four, but five years. They have two training profiles in most cases. For example, history and social studies. Extramural students have one profile, but they also study for five years. It turns out that most of the future teachers are studying for a year more than other bachelors. With a specialty they had five years, and with a bachelor's degree.
  • Radikal
    Radikal April 2 2020 00: 58 New
    -1
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Quote: Radikal
    The article is a set of platitudes long known to all those who are even a little interested in the problems of modern education in the Russian Federation. The author does not give an answer why the country, whose leadership is positioned as its successor to the USSR, where the best education was now, is woven somewhere in the middle of the list according to the quality of education

    So give us an answer, and we will listen, evaluate, if he (advice) is efficient, we will begin to adopt valuable experience. wink

    To do this, you will need to write a new article, and to be honest, laziness - over the years of work, so many documents have been written that there is a persistent allergy to writing long texts. bully But seriously, then briefly - the current leadership is not profitable with a high-quality universal education, such as in the USSR for completely alarming reasons, but this does not detract from their relevance to them. The main one is uneducated, or poorly educated, the majority is easier to manipulate. There are a number of reasons, but again, this topic is voluminous, not for the format of the comment. hi
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard April 2 2020 08: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Radikal
      To do this, you will need to write a new article, and to be honest, laziness - over the years of work, so many documents have been written that there is a persistent allergy to writing long texts

      Sorry, I would read.
      Quote: Radikal
      briefly - the current leadership is not profitable with a high-quality universal education, such as in the USSR for completely alarming reasons, but this does not detract from their relevance to them. The main one is uneducated, or poorly educated, the majority is easier to manipulate.

      There is a debatable question, probably many have their own vision and arguments, but as you correctly wrote:
      Quote: Radikal
      This topic is voluminous, not for the comment format

      hi
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 April 2 2020 05: 20 New
    0
    At universities, children are being shoved because employers require higher education, no matter what, almost a guard.
  • Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 April 2 2020 09: 05 New
    +1
    I read the article and comments ... Sadness ... The author started well ... He outlined the essence of the problem, but I disagree with the conclusion.
    But you can start with a banal - a multiple increase in financial investments in the school system.

    The essence of the problem is not to stand with outstretched hand ...
    The problem in my opinion is somewhat wider and wider ... The modern Russian state does not want to answer for anything. This is clearly seen in all areas. Here are just a few examples: 1) the state housing and communal services were replaced by private homeowners' associations, having actually shaved off the entire housing area including emergency housing for private traders for whom you can’t ask the official, 2) there’s a general inspection of traffic police there, 3) the medicine seems to be free, and money there are no people, only private clinics are becoming more and more, 4) the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the protection of the interests of citizens have long been replaced by chop, 5) the army fought chop in Syria and Donbass.
    An injection of money just does not lead to anything other than cutting money. A striking example is maternal capital, which is essentially a targeted state program for financing construction, the automotive industry, and education (which should be free of charge). It is curious to look at what stands out for the success of the state to regulate the birth rate by injecting money.
    The problem is rather that the rules are not established normally, including those governing the relations of teacher and student, teacher and parents, and those that are either not perfect or simply do not work.
    In the article, the author somewhat casually touched on the topic of higher education, but because of it, our society has many problems. In fact, a person with higher education should be a manager and a leader in his field, and our technical staff has a higher education ... Higher education itself is depreciated, hence its quality decreases, and already at the factory a specialist with a diploma is immediately informed that you should be taught what do so and so.
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk April 2 2020 11: 47 New
    0
    increase by 5 thousand rubles payment for classroom management ... Only ?
    The authorities have already given advice on both status and salary:
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Archon
    Archon April 7 2020 08: 54 New
    0
    the entire education system must be reformed and financed. increase in salaries, separation of schools by age groups, reduction of the number of students in a class to 12, possibly (but not necessarily) separate classes for boys and girls, reduction of years of study (3 primary, 4 secondary, 2 specialized = 9 years of useful education instead of 11 secondary), the abolition of homework assignments in exact disciplines and replacing them with independent work within the walls of the school, the intensification of training and the construction of all training on the principle "knowledge should be repeatedly used in the near future to consolidate", the exclusion of unimportant subjects and the addition of really necessary items, the cancellation for schools of all spring holidays (they take many days), the introduction of compulsory vocational colleges instead of the last grades of the school (and in them the appearance of 1-2 month compulsory civil-military courses), the establishment of a unified system of textbooks and teaching materials, verified by the RAS with gradation for the profile education (higher for specialized, standard for non offile) with free distribution of these materials in electronic form and permission to print them for any publishers, issuance of an e-book (with a guarantee, service and the possibility of replacement) with electronic ink technology (ideally produced on the territory of the Russian Federation), creation of a single project for a school building with variation in climate and the construction of new buildings, a complete change in physical education lessons with the abolition of standards and the replacement of running and other strange activities with more useful and less dangerous (but used daily) + sports games (variations are possible) and much more - but these are mine personal desires and they will definitely not come true. I see the division of the school into 3 periods as positive for changing the team - the student should not be with the same people for 11 years and should change the environment for the formation of social skills, prevention of stopping the growth of personality, eliminating conflicts, as well as for a personal feeling of his own growth through the transition by levels of education.

    why canceling precision subjects homework and transferring them to school? because students cheat from each other, they are helped by parents, the Internet, GDZ and other factors. "Where have you seen this, where have you heard it - dad decides, but Vasya gives up?" and, as a result, a few people actually solve the task, while the rest imitate learning activities. perhaps someone is slightly behind the times, but there has been a long time ago, for example, an application with which you photograph a hand-drawn mathematical equation, and it gives a detailed solution with an explanation, and this is far from the limit. while at home, have the student study humanitarian subjects and household chores or his own personal affairs (games, books, walks, pets, hobbies).