About the Kalashnikov submachine gun of the 1942 model in six minutes


Concern "Kalashnikov" launched a special project dedicated to armscreated by Mikhail Kalashnikov. This project is dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the birth of this outstanding person (noted in November 2019). The project is called "Kalashnikov 100".


The head of the funds department of the military-historical artillery museum Ruslan Chumak in a 6-minute video tells about what is a Kalashnikov submachine gun, developed in 1942. This is the first surviving weapon model that was developed by the legendary domestic gunsmith - Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov.

It is also the first Kalashnikov weapon to be tested at the GAU KA proving ground.

The creation of a submachine gun began to be carried out after Mikhail Kalashnikov was wounded at the front. While in the hospital, he began research on the creation of such weapons, and by the summer of 1942 the model was born.

One of the advantages of such a weapon is its compactness and relatively low weight. The submachine gun is equipped with a folding butt and a front handle.

About all the features of the 1942 model submachine gun - in the clip of the Kalashnikov concern.

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  1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 05: 16 New
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    "One of the advantages of such a weapon is its compactness and relatively low mass." - Well, he did it specifically for tankers. He understood what was happening - it was not for nothing that he was a tank commander.
  2. svp67 31 March 2020 06: 28 New
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    In the film "Kalashnikov", the hero Degtyarev said well about this PP:
    "... as a combat specimen, he was, to put it mildly,“ shitty, ”but as a makeshift made of a piece of iron in a barn, he impressed ..."
    1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 06: 33 New
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      Quote: svp67
      but as a home-made made of a piece of iron, in the barn, he impressed ... "

      A copy of the GAU test was not homemade ..
      1. svp67 31 March 2020 07: 19 New
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        Quote: mat-vey
        A copy of the GAU test was not homemade ..

        But its appearance, says little about its readiness for mass production
        1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 07: 24 New
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          Quote: svp67
          But its appearance, says little about its readiness for mass production

          And how did you determine this? And yes, the "appearance" of PPS-42 is like home-made work, not even from a piece of iron, but from a sheet of iron is even more like ..
          1. svp67 31 March 2020 07: 45 New
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            Quote: mat-vey
            And yes, the "appearance" of PPS-42 resembles homemade products, not even from a piece of iron, but from a sheet of iron is even more like ..

            Yes there is such a thing ...
            Also done in the "shed". But PPS-43 is already better
            Quote: mat-vey
            How did you determine this?

            Well, if only because Kalashnikov upgraded it already at the training ground and there was a high time for special milling processing during its manufacture. And yet, what is shown here is already the second option, in which a slightly reworked casing from PPSh is used in particular, and it looks alien on it, in terms of workmanship.
            1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 07: 55 New
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              Quote: svp67
              that Kalashnikov upgraded it already at the training ground and there was a high time for special milling processing in its manufacture

              And you determined it in appearance, or everything is so disassembling ...
              Quote: svp67
              a converted casing from PPSh, it looks alien on it, in terms of workmanship.

              ????????
              it seems that on the contrary, parts from mass-produced just more contribute to the "readiness for mass production"
              Well, to be absolutely accurate, though, M.T. Kalashnikov even took part in the competition, although at the final stage he didn’t do his own command post for this contest - he did the checkpoint for arming tankers and crews of other armored vehicles for a specific task.
              1. svp67 31 March 2020 08: 05 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                And you determined it in appearance, or everything is so disassembling ...

                This is even visible on the receiver ...
                Quote: mat-vey
                it seems that on the contrary, parts from mass-produced just more contribute to the "readiness for mass production"

                I agree, but it puts an end to using it from a tank ... A casing would interfere with this.
                Quote: mat-vey
                Well, to be completely accurate, though, M.T. Kalashnikov, although he took part in the competition, although at the final stage he did not do his PP for this competition

                https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5b041b4ea815f1619f0dd45c/pistoletpulemet-kalashnikova-obr-1942-vtoroi-5b896b8b08a76b00a9342211

                It is characteristic that the last modifications of his submachine gun Mikhail Kalashnikov made already at the training ground, immediately before the tests - they were listed in a separate act. In particular, a new barrel was delivered, taken from the PPSh and altered to the dimensions for the sergeant’s sample, a new reload handle, a trigger disconnector, a pull from it, and a number of other parts were manufactured and mounted.
                "In terms of design and manufacturability, manufacturing of Kalashnikov’s PP is significantly inferior to Sudayev’s, and in this respect it has no advantages over the standard PP-41

                The configuration of all Kalashnikov PP parts is designed in such a way that in their manufacture they require machine tools (mainly milling) and locksmithing. For example: in the manufacture of a spiral shutter tube in the mechanical laboratory of NIPSVO KA, it took 12 machine hours of highly skilled labor force (7th category), and for final finishing it is still necessary to perform head milling and metalwork. "
                1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 09: 05 New
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                  Quote: svp67
                  This is even visible on the receiver ...

                  Well, you have eyes too .. They tested it at the training ground, but here it’s from the photo ...
                  1. svp67 31 March 2020 09: 34 New
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                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Well, you have eyes ..

                    Sorry, but the poor workmanship, no offense and the fault of MTK, is visible in all his first works.

                    And maybe even this is a plus, he learned to make his products so that they could be made in "garages"
                    1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 09: 46 New
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                      PPS-43 was by this criterion even more "low quality workmanship" ... But it is because of the high manufacturability ...
                      And yes, Kalashnikov’s are all prototypes that no one brought for one reason or another. The first prototypes of Sudaev also had flaws.
                      By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...
                      1. svp67 31 March 2020 09: 47 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...

                        I agree, before AKM it was really a "no present".
                      2. mat-vey 31 March 2020 10: 34 New
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                        you are probably hinting at the receiver? It's certainly the same. But the shutter with the shutter frame is just how one "metal processor" noticed - the technologist’s nightmare. But the technologists solved this problem even on the AK. There are rumors that the number of different technologists nor IzhMasha during AK development reached 200 from ..
  • bbss 31 March 2020 10: 07 New
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    These disputes are "nothing." In prototypes, the concept is worked out, and only then the product is refined technologically for the tasks of mass production.
    1. mat-vey 31 March 2020 10: 36 New
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      Uh-uh, Today, 09:46 AM "And yes, Kalashnikov had all the prototypes that no one had brought for one reason or another. The first prototypes of Sudaev also had flaws."
  • kalibr 31 March 2020 11: 02 New
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    A person does not know how to keep himself in front of the camera. He shoots his eyes, doesn’t know what to do with his hands ... Maybe he’s a specialist, but LEARN to TV journalism! And the phrase "no current ..."
    1. Alexfly April 1 2020 18: 02 New
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      Sorry, of course, he’s not a girl for you to like or you have other, unconventional views ...
  • Disorder 31 March 2020 13: 41 New
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    Quote: svp67
    In the film "Kalashnikov", the hero Degtyarev said well about this PP:
    "... as a combat specimen, he was, to put it mildly,“ shitty, ”but as a makeshift made of a piece of iron in a barn, he impressed ..."

    Well, all design products are essentially "homemade pieces of iron." This is already in preparation for production, when technologies are being developed and equipment is being made .....
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tolancop 31 March 2020 16: 17 New
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    Quote: svp67
    Quote: mat-vey
    By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...

    I agree, before AKM it was really a "no present".

    Judging by the book of Malimon, AKM also drank a lot of blood technology for technologists ...
  • tolancop 31 March 2020 16: 22 New
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    Quote: bbss
    These disputes are "nothing." In prototypes, the concept is worked out, and only then the product is refined technologically for the tasks of mass production.

    If the design was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much then do not refine, you will not get a good result.
    1. mat-vey April 1 2020 05: 39 New
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      Quote: tolancop
      If the design was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production

      How to be with BCC?
      1. tolancop April 2 2020 15: 53 New
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        As I understand it, “Vintorez” is hiding under “VSS” .... Compare the circulations of the Vintorez issue with the circulations of PPSh, PPS, AK family ... And at the same time the cost of production (the number of machine hours), the requirements for the availability of special (specialized) equipment, staff qualifications and etc.
        1. mat-vey April 3 2020 06: 57 New
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          Quote: tolancop
          As I understand it, “Vintorez” is hiding under “VSS” .... Compare the circulations of the Vintorez issue with the circulations of PPSh, PPS, AK family ... And at the same time the cost of production (the number of machine hours), the requirements for the availability of special (specialized) equipment, staff qualifications and etc.

          T E. Do you acknowledge that the barrel was originally created "without taking into account the requirements of mass production"?
          1. tolancop April 4 2020 21: 59 New
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            mat-vey, naturally admit. Although I’ll directly say that I am not a specialist in the field of weapons.
            I admit that the phrase I wrote earlier had to be built somewhat differently, so that there was an unambiguous interpretation. Probably, it was necessary to write "If the design, the RELEASE WHICH IS PROPOSED TO MAKE MASS, was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much then do not finalize ...". So understandable? BCC is a tool for solving a certain range of tasks and not everyone needs it and not always. For him, his own requirements for cost, manufacturability, etc. For weapons with the prospect of manufacturing hundreds of thousands of copies, the picture is radically different. And I believe the emergence of PCA to a large extent was facilitated by the obviousness that attempts to modify an existing PCA with similar characteristics will not work, because such a design. Well, not to make a normal truck out of a bus, but a trolleybus out of a truck .... You can try, but the result ... hmm. known in advance.
            1. mat-vey April 5 2020 04: 53 New
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              Quote: tolancop
              And I believe that the emergence of PPSh was promoted to a large extent by the obviousness that attempts to modify the PPS already available in armament with similar characteristics will not work, because such a design.

              Actually it was a weapon contest competition ...
              Quote: tolancop
              "If the design, THE ISSUE OF WHICH IS PROPOSED TO MAKE MASS, was initially created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much then do not refine ..."

              Well, the Kalashnikov assault rifle was "finalized" ...
              It's just that the “phrase” is really ambiguous and I took the liberty of working around ..... Because I repeat - for that time AK was not very cheap for mass production ...
  • Dzafdet 31 March 2020 20: 04 New
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    Well, where are the talkers about Schmeiser? Quite an original design. He would be brought to mind and he wears buyers ...
    1. ager1751 April 1 2020 20: 35 New
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      Well look at Thomson
      1. mat-vey April 2 2020 10: 10 New
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        Quote: ager1751
        Well look at Thomson

        And what about Thompson? The receiver is rectangular?
        1. ager1751 April 5 2020 07: 17 New
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          You talked about some original design. But in fact it was an ordinary attempt to make the Soviet analogue of the Western model,
          1. mat-vey April 5 2020 07: 38 New
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            Quote: ager1751
            You talked about some original design. But in fact it was an ordinary attempt to make the Soviet analogue of the Western model,

            As I understand it, you are a design specialist about Thompson?
  • Alexfly April 1 2020 18: 00 New
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    Of course, what did he think about creating AK? Could ergonomic already then create or not given ??
    1. ager1751 April 1 2020 20: 44 New
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      Everyone has already been squeezed out from the storm trooper. There were no ideas. And the task at that moment, to make your hever, was completed.
      1. mat-vey April 2 2020 10: 16 New
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        Quote: ager1751
        Everyone has already been squeezed out from the storm trooper.

        And what did they “squeeze”? AK with Hever constructively has a little more than nothing.
        1. ager1751 April 5 2020 07: 26 New
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          Firstly, the idea itself, secondly, the copied layout, especially in the AK-46, thirdly, an unsuccessful attempt to achieve the main combat characteristics of weapons - accuracy and accuracy.
          1. mat-vey April 5 2020 07: 37 New
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            Quote: ager1751
            First, the idea itself,

            And what kind of “idea” is this?
            Quote: ager1751
            copied layout, especially in ak-46

            Yes, my friend, neither about the AK-46 nor about the StG or where ... And which of the AK-46 versions of your version did StG "copy"?
            Quote: ager1751
            unsuccessful attempt to achieve the main combat characteristics of weapons - accuracy and accuracy.

            And what do you know about the “accuracy and accuracy” of StG?
            1. ager1751 April 5 2020 09: 32 New
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              The idea of ​​an assault rifle.
              Copied from hever, naturally, that version on which Kalashnikov worked, and which is now called option No. 1. What later became known as ak-47 was already a revised product using ideas, including Bulkin.
              Accuracy and accuracy of hever? Well here, only by experts' estimates can one judge. The Germans didn’t ever release anything ill-conceived and of poor quality. And if there was an oblique shutter on the gever, then this was a deliberate and competent decision, on which, among other things, accuracy depends.
              1. mat-vey April 5 2020 09: 45 New
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                Quote: ager1751
                The idea of ​​an assault rifle.

                The idea of ​​an assault rifle fought in World War I. And not in one country ...
                Quote: ager1751
                Germans of ill-conceived and poor quality never released anything.

                That hever had more complaints than shots - are you talking about the unresolved problem of lateral tearing of the cartridge case and sticking the cartridge in the course? Or is the German enthusiastic?
                Quote: ager1751
                Naturally, that version on which Kalashnikov worked, and which is now called option No. 1. What later became known as ak-47 was already a revised product using ideas, including Bulkin

                All the same, you are strong in design - the AK-46 had several options and not one with a hever except the barrel and the principle of "gas" automation did not have anything structurally common. And the Ak-47 had options. And if you pulled Bulkin, then do not forget to mention Sudayev’s “ideas” in his “completely revised version” for the second contest ..
                1. ager1751 April 5 2020 11: 55 New
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                  Sudaev, of course, was the first to make a Soviet assault rifle, which was brought, even to an experimental one, of production. I did not drag Bulkin. Bulkin’s bolt frame is present in ac. The barrel and the principle of gas exhaust embodied in gever is the key decision around which all our developments, starting from Sudaev, developed. Transverse rupture of the sleeve? Perhaps. But everything is fixable, he was the first. In service stood 40 years. What shortcomings were there in ak nobody will write in detail. Why did he lose in the contest no one will tell you the model of Bulkin. Yes, and who worked out the ideas of an assault rifle in 1MB? I have never heard of this.
                  1. mat-vey April 6 2020 05: 39 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    Bulkin’s bolt frame is present in ac.

                    The shutter frame for the AK from the AK for the AB-46 is for the AB-46, but its rod mount with the gas piston is exactly the same for the AS-44, if you take on the closest analogies ..
                    Quote: ager1751
                    The barrel and the gas exhaust principle embodied in gever is the key solution around which all our developments have developed

                    Does Monsieur have any idea of ​​SVT?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    In service stood 40 years. What shortcomings were there in ak nobody will write in detail.

                    And where did he stand? In Africa?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    Why did he lose in the contest no one will tell you the model of Bulkin.

                    So how does anyone know who is not lazy and does not play the conspiracy theory? Maybe because at least they read and learned about contests for the creation of machines?

                    Quote: ager1751
                    Yes, and who worked out the ideas of an assault rifle in 1MB? I have never heard of this.

                    "never" do you accidentally have a middle name not Odysseus?
                    On the side of the double-barreled carabiner of Ribeirol and the same Fedorov rifle ...

                    AK 7,62 PS
                    Weight, kg - 4,8 (with an equipped magazine)
                    Length, mm - 870/1070 (with bayonet)
                    Barrel length, mm - 415
                    Actual fire, m ~ 400
                    Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                    Muzzle velocity, m / s - 710-725
                    Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1990—2080
                    The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,5
                    Bullet weight, g - 7,9
                    Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds

                    Automatic Fedorov 6,5x50 mm Arisaka
                    Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                    Length, mm - 1045
                    Barrel length, mm - 520
                    Actual fire, m ~ 400
                    Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                    Muzzle velocity, m / s - 660-770
                    Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1950—2150
                    The mass of the cartridge, g - 20
                    Bullet weight, g - 8,9
                    Type of ammunition - box magazine 25 rounds

                    Sturmgewehr 44 7,92x33 Kurz
                    Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                    Length, mm - 940
                    Barrel length, mm - 420
                    Actual fire, m ~ 400
                    Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                    Muzzle velocity, m / s - 680-690
                    Muzzle energy of a bullet, J ~ 1900
                    The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,7
                    Bullet weight, g - 8,1
                    Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds
                    1. ager1751 April 6 2020 08: 19 New
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                      Fedorov’s rifle and this second (you’ll say a damn) assault rifles were not. And besides you, no one ever called them. An assault rifle, however, implies an intermediate cartridge.
                      The bolt frame had to be taken from Bulkin after unsuccessful attempts to extinguish the recoil momentum with a more complex separate circuit. Sudayev, however, is skewed and the frame is slightly different Naturally, both Bulkin and Sudaev took this scheme from the gever.
                      The top location of the gas vent is Save, patent, or him or Manlicher. The layout of this node in all of our (length, size, distance) is much closer to gever than to Simonov or Tokarev, but in fact is a copy of it
                      1. mat-vey April 6 2020 08: 38 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Fedorov’s rifle and this second (you’ll say a damn) assault rifles were not. And besides you, no one ever called them. The assault rifle, nevertheless, implies an intermediate cartridge

                        So neither I called them, you in addition and about the history of the intermediate cartridge do not know anything - a complete set, so to speak.

                        Quote: ager1751
                        The bolt frame had to be taken from Bulkin after unsuccessful attempts to extinguish the recoil momentum with a more complex separate circuit. Sudayev, however, is skewed and the frame is slightly different Naturally, both Bulkin and Sudaev took this scheme from the gever.

                        After the point on recharging at an adjoined store was canceled at the second stage of the competition, the need for a short stroke was no longer necessary and automation could be done already for a long course. This scheme was used by Czechs in mass models in the 20s .... to By the way, like the trigger trigger.
                        You would study and cite "conspiracies", but just to get started with the book of Malimon at least get acquainted, otherwise you just got tired of printing sheets on issues that had been sucked for a long time and here on VO and around on the Internet ..
                      2. ager1751 April 6 2020 11: 02 New
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                        Do not understand? Who, to me as an example of the idea of ​​an assault rifle, offhand painted two barrels? Ie the very concept of "assault rifle" for you is that that shoots automatically?
                        The second one. Bulkin means he put the bolt on the terms of the competition and immediately made a long move, and Kalashnikov sacredly followed the conditions? Or maybe the matter was that the commission recognized the AK-46 scheme as unsuitable and unsuccessful and had to urgently redo the design? And to put it mildly, push it through, using corporate opportunities, as they would say now.
                        Believe less on patriotic versions of the creation of the world, less suck them in all forums, and then you will not need to print extensive sheets on a long-understood topic.
                      3. mat-vey April 6 2020 11: 23 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Ie the very concept of "assault rifle" for you is that that shoots automatically?

                        Where does such a brilliant conclusion come from?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        The second one. Bulkin means he put the bolt on the terms of the competition and immediately made a long move, and Kalashnikov sacredly followed the conditions?

                        You are sometimes quick-witted.
                        Quote: ager1751
                        Or maybe the matter was that the commission recognized the AK-46 scheme as unsuitable and unsuccessful and had to urgently redo the design?

                        You don’t even know the dropout criteria for the second competition ...
                        Quote: ager1751
                        Believe less on patriotic versions of the creation of the world

                        And you're funny .... Instead of looking for documents, the recollections of eyewitnesses, those who remained alive after the deadlines for secrecy expired - you're talking about some kind of "theory".
                      4. ager1751 April 6 2020 12: 15 New
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                        Matvey, do not brake. My ingenious conclusion is based on your misunderstanding of the term "assault rifle." You proposed a theory, quite patriotic, that Fedorov’s rifle, they say, was already an assault in principle. Right? In part, maybe you're right. But the whole arms world doesn’t classify it like that.
                        Second, Matvey, well, you also can’t keep abreast of the dropout criteria in the second stage, and draw conclusions only based on the subjective memories of the participants. Well, who will destroy the legend in recollections? Who will directly say that the shutter ak-46, damaged from the guards, did not fit for automatic fire, because It was created for a self-loading, not an automatic rifle. That ak simply did not go through the second stage, and that Lyuty, taking advantage of the fact that he was in the commission, did everything to push the ak.
                      5. mat-vey April 6 2020 12: 33 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Matvey, do not brake. My ingenious conclusion is based on your misunderstanding of the term "assault rifle."

                        And what’s my “understanding”? I’ve never once mentioned this “understanding”, but here are value judgments
                        .
                        Quote: ager1751
                        and draw conclusions only on the subjective memories of the participants.

                        Well, if the members of the selection committee and the test engineers, those who made the decisions, have biased memories of their decisions - what is it about?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        Who will directly say that the shutter ak-46, torn

                        You should at least take a look at the pictures of this shutter before talking nonsense - and the AK shutter from the Guarantor is just the idea of ​​completely realizing it .. But it didn’t “pass”, but took third place in the first stage ...
                      6. ager1751 April 6 2020 13: 24 New
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                        Well, at the second stage it was deemed unsuitable for further refinement.
                      7. mat-vey April 6 2020 14: 01 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Well, at the second stage it was deemed unsuitable for further refinement.

                        And in the second stage it was already AK-47 ..
                      8. ager1751 April 6 2020 16: 04 New
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                        He became him after the second stage.
                      9. mat-vey April 6 2020 16: 24 New
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                        In the second competition there were only two rounds. After the second, it was essentially AK.
                      10. ager1751 April 6 2020 17: 36 New
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                        For heaven’s sake, even if there were only two stages, all the more so in the memoirs they go through this topic casually, because they couldn’t reasonably explain how they didn’t sleep on one machine, worked and thought over it, suddenly it became completely different and made an amazing comeback.
                      11. mat-vey April 6 2020 17: 42 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        because they couldn’t reasonably explain,

                        Maybe it's just a matter of "reason"?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        as one machine on which days and nights did not sleep, worked, thought over, suddenly became completely different

                        Because he became, that did not sleep, worked, thought out?
                      12. ager1751 April 6 2020 18: 16 New
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                        Of course in the "mind." Therefore, the version of Kalashnikov from his memoirs, where he talked about the seditious thought that visited him and Zaitsev “maybe we can take everything and radically redo it,” will always have smart and loyal fans. And stupid people who do not understand anything in life will constantly poke at Schmeiser, Sudaev, Bulkin and ask: who is Lyuty?
                      13. mat-vey April 6 2020 18: 20 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Therefore, the version of Kalashnikov from his memoirs, where he talked about the seditious thought that visited him and Zaitsev, "maybe we can take everything and radically redo it"

                        But did you manage to familiarize yourself with Kalashnikov with this version? And would you be foolish to “poke” the Internet, smoke equipment, rather than enormous conspiracy theories?
                      14. ager1751 April 6 2020 18: 25 New
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                        Well, read the source, that would not work, as with the Fedorov rifle and the second, as it is there, which you randomly identified as the initiators of the ideas of the assault rifle.
                      15. mat-vey April 6 2020 18: 27 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Fedorov’s rifle and the second, like him there, whom you randomly identified as the initiators of the ideas of an assault rifle.

                        What an honor for me - determined ..
                        And what kind of “source” do you have? Participants in the contest, are you up to date about your source?
                      16. ager1751 April 6 2020 19: 06 New
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                        Well, especially for the adherents of the sect of "witnesses of the miracle of 47 years." From the book “Notes of the gunsmith”: “At that time, Sasha Zaitsev and I secretly from the leadership (!!!) had a bold idea: masking ourselves with the modifications, we made a complete overhaul of the entire machine (??? and before that we did it, they were forced by the marriage leadership drive?). We, of course, took a well-known risk, the re-arrangement was not provided for by the competition. But it greatly simplified the arrangement of weapons, increased their reliability in work. (??? and didn’t realize before that it was easier?) So the game was worth There was one thing that bothered me: were we able to meet the deadline from Eden to sample some work. "
                        All of this could have been believed if V.F. Fierce in his memoirs would not write: "I came to the conclusion that the design should be redone almost anew."
                      17. mat-vey April 7 2020 04: 39 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Okay, especially for the adherents of the sect "witnesses of the miracle of 47 years"

                        Especially for smart ones - "headed by the new head of the individual weapons testing division V.F. Lyuty, who replaced V.P. Poddubny in this position."
                        And yet, yes- Poddubny and Fierce were not the main "guide" ..
                      18. ager1751 April 7 2020 07: 01 New
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                        Where did I write to you that Fierce was their "leadership"? Their leadership was in Kovrov. It was in secret from them that they allegedly made some plans. In other words, the project was approved at the enterprise, signed by everyone, the weapons that were proposed for the competition were developed, manufactured and tested, and two cool dudes who did not have any production authority decided to damn it all, because it seemed to them that they could do much better. Well, now they would just be kicked out of the enterprise, and in 47, you could save on a ticket to Siberia for that. But Fierce was the head of the testing department, and having long-standing and close ties with the Kovrovites, showed, let’s say, a loyal approach to their model. Although after the conclusion given to this image by the head of the tests Pchelintsev, this sample should have been removed from the competition.
                      19. mat-vey April 7 2020 13: 12 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        All of this could have been believed if V.F. Fierce in his memoirs would not write: "I came to the conclusion that the design should be redone almost anew."

                        It was written for what purpose? If not a "guide", then why not shake it?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        In other words, the project was approved at the enterprise, signed by everyone, the weapons that were proposed for the competition were developed, manufactured and tested,

                        It’s kind of softer to say .. this is a competition and everyone was simply obliged to eliminate the shortcomings identified in the designs, which were just “developed, manufactured and tested the weapons that were proposed for the competition”, which naturally meant reworking the design - or do you have another a way to bring prototypes to mind? Share your discovery can be said simply of a universal scale ...
                      20. ager1751 April 7 2020 15: 19 New
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                        Repairing flaws and completely redesigning the design are two different things.
                      21. mat-vey April 7 2020 15: 26 New
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                        Repairing flaws and completely redesigning the design are two different things.

                        And now? What kind of AK-47 didn’t it turn out right? And they met the deadlines. What’s your claim? Kalashnikov stepped on a tram and didn’t have time to spit on his back, now we’re morally satisfied on the Internet ?
                      22. ager1751 April 7 2020 16: 07 New
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                        Guessful you, Matthew, man. The machine also lost after processing. And if it were not for the breakdown of the Bulkin assault rifle due to the usual technical marriage in such cases, we would not have seen the Soviet army the most reliable and inaccurate assault rifle. And no one stepped on my foot in the tram - I do not ride the tram.
                      23. mat-vey April 7 2020 16: 24 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        And no one stepped on my foot in the tram - I do not ride the tram.

                        And you will not say that - a typical tram boor ...
                        “When testing a large number of shots under normal conditions, Bulkin’s submachine guns received 0,4–0,7% of the delays. Their tests were stopped at a very early stage, with less than half the shot per sample compared to the established survivability rate, due to identified defects that are not amenable to correction. The first sample - in connection with the breakage of the shutter frame, the second - due to unsatisfactory extraction of sleeves. " What a surprise, there was a second sample that did not break ...
                      24. ager1751 April 7 2020 16: 52 New
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                        That's right. It was this that became the formal nit-picking to eliminate the competitor. After all, it is quite clear that the first sample broke due to technical defects. not because of a design error. And there was no unsatisfactory extraction of cartridges on it. And what did AK show?
                      25. mat-vey April 7 2020 16: 55 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        And there was no unsatisfactory extraction of cartridges

                        Did you determine the method of extrasensory diagnostics?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        And what did AK show?

                        And what did AK show?
                      26. ager1751 April 7 2020 17: 05 New
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                        Do not you know? That's right, no one knows. In addition to no accuracy due to the cut trunk, he did not meet other TTT GAUs. But he was lucky - he did not break.
                      27. mat-vey April 7 2020 17: 23 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        That's right, no one knows.

                        "Nobody" - what are you Odyssey?
                        "The final testing tests of the machines were carried out under especially specific conditions, one might even say, in conditions of special favor to all participants of the competition. Many deviations from the usual, rooted at the training ground procedures and rules established for this type of testing were allowed."

                        "The insufficient energy balance of automation in the samples of Bulkin and Dementyev led to delays in their work associated with incomplete kickbacks and rolls of the moving parts with the shutter not closing the frame, and a distortion of the geometric profile of the barrel chamber in the Bulkin sample led to non-extraction of the cartridges by their ejector due to their tight extraction The first tight extraction of the cartridge case on this system was observed with the use of heated cartridges, which later manifested itself with unheated cartridges. Bani liners were in many cases, the root cause of their "sticking" moving parts after removal from the chamber. Cases with a deformed rim lost gate before meeting with a reflector or unreliable reflected by it in connection with a decrease in parts of the rollback rate due to tight extractions.

                        Tight extraction, especially in the case of a detachment of a part of the liner flange at the place of engagement of the ejector, was the most difficult delay in the method of elimination, and the causal connection with the manufacturing quality of the chamber made them practically unrecoverable in the test site by the method of debugging measures for the shutter assembly. These delays, including those with the margin of the sleeve detached, were also in the samples of Dementiev and Kalashnikov, but in isolated manifestations.
                      28. ager1751 April 7 2020 17: 56 New
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                        Good story . And what about AK? The question was about AK.
                      29. mat-vey April 7 2020 18: 14 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Good story . And what about AK? The question was about AK.

                        But what is fate not to find? Although ...
                        “All modified guns didn’t show big shifts in the direction of improving this combat performance. Compared to previous tests, there was a slight tendency to improve the accuracy of all systems, but this could be explained by the increased training of test shooters in firing from this type of weapon. this and modified brake compensators, which was confirmed by special experimental firing. "
                      30. ager1751 April 7 2020 18: 46 New
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                        Matvey is a story. A story on the topic of a bad Bulkin assault rifle, by the way, the only one that met the requirements of the GAU for accuracy. Where is the story about a unique development with a shortened barrel and holes in the barrel to reduce pressure on the piston? Indeed, the world's first weapon with a hole in the barrel. And why did it win?
                        And the story with heber ended when Lyuty ordered Schmeisser's fake to be completely reworked, to return to where we started, that is. with Sudaev’s machine gun, add Bulkin’s bolt frame and bring the trigger to the mind.
                      31. mat-vey April 8 2020 03: 39 New
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                        Quote: ager1751
                        Matvey is a story. A story on the topic of a bad Bulkin assault rifle, by the way, the only accuracy factor that met the requirements of the GAU

                        Only in one standard, although why do you need everything else? After all, for a conspiracy theory, this is enough ... And where, respectively, is the story about the shortened trunk AB-46, or does this also not fit into the "conspiracy"?
                        Quote: ager1751
                        And the story with hever ended when Lyuty ordered Schmeiser fake to be completely reworked

                        Are you even able to distinguish one structure from another? Or is there a wooden butt and here too? Although the passage about the Thompson ... is generally clear.
                        Quote: ager1751
                        from Sudaev’s machine gun, add Bulkin bolt frame

                        AK has its own shutter frame; AB has its own, although for designers it makes no difference ...
                        Quote: ager1751
                        and bring to mind

                        And what can you say for the recommendations to Bulkin and Dementiev? In your universe did the commission give any recommendations for revision to them?
                  2. mat-vey April 7 2020 18: 20 New
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                    So, what's new about Hever?
                  3. ager1751 April 8 2020 07: 20 New
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                    Matvey, well, you’ve been in the army for at least two years, but still served. Well, not the design. The layout scheme, Matvey, ergonomically 90% similar to Hever was used in AK-46, because it was recommended to use it in GAU as early as 43 years. Just like before, the Thomson layout scheme was borrowed. And the layout scheme largely affects both directly and indirectly the characteristics of the weapon. And, of course, his bolt frame doesn’t work for Bulkin. This solution (the piston connected to the frame and the shutter rotation) was borrowed from Bulkin, after Bulkin worked it out, tested it. And no matter how the first he applied it in this form. But he didn’t succeed in shoving the uncanny, he had to cut the barrel of the AK to fit in the TTT. And the recoil momentum turned out to be excessive, I had to drill holes in the barrel well, etc. But Bulkin, thank God, broke.
                  4. mat-vey April 8 2020 07: 31 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    The layout scheme, Matvey, ergonomically 90% similar to Hever was used in AK-46, because it was recommended to use it in GAU as early as 43 years.

                    Are you serious? And where is the spring in the butt? And the gas engine with a short stroke and side in addition?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    Just like the earlier Thomson layout scheme was borrowed

                    Why not MP or Suomi?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    And, of course, his bolt frame doesn’t work for Bulkin. This solution (the piston connected to the frame and the shutter rotation) was borrowed from Bulkin, after Bulkin worked it out, tested it.

                    The piston connected to the frame is the same ZB, hever, AC-44, Lewis machine gun .... But the gates are all different because the frame design itself is different, but the designers do not care - they have a plot ..
                    Quote: ager1751
                    But Bulkin, thank God, broke.

                    Does Monsieur even know that Bulkin’s barrel was shortened by 70 mm?

                    It's not funny with you anymore, it's already scary with you ...
                  5. ager1751 April 8 2020 09: 05 New
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                    Matvey, Attention. Layout scheme. That is, the mutual arrangement of nodes and assemblies that determines their interaction. For example: the engine in your front, the drive wheels in the back, or the engine in the rear, the drive wheels in the back. And what engine do you care about, that is, in our case, what is your locking unit, trigger and where the spring does not interest anyone. And the second one. I, damn it, specially wrote to you in brackets, I decipher it: an upstream piston with a frame and a shutter skew. What do you bring me lis with zb? And the last one. Perhaps Bulkin cut the trunk. I'll take your word for it, but it just didn’t affect the accuracy, unlike ak.
                  6. mat-vey April 8 2020 10: 26 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    Matvey, Attention. Layout scheme. That is, the mutual arrangement of nodes and assemblies that determines their interaction.

                    Especially for super-alternative technical geniuses - a return spring in a gever in the butt of the AK in the receiver, although again for the super-alternative it is an unimportant element, as well as some kind of piece of iron. And it does not matter that it affects the operation of the whole mechanism.
                    And once again, the SVT has a piston on top and a rotary shutter ... And the AC-44 also has a top piston and a rigid connection "And what engine do you care about, that is, in our case, what is your locking unit"
                    Quote: ager1751
                    I, damn it, specially wrote to you in brackets, I decipher it: an upstream piston with a frame and a shutter skew.

                    Quote: ager1751
                    This is the solution (piston connected to the frame and turning the shutter)

                    Did Bulkin write this?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    Perhaps Bulkin cut the trunk. I'll take your word for it

                    On earth, this was in the requirements of the commission, but in your universe about this information probably has not been preserved ...
                  7. ager1751 April 8 2020 16: 56 New
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                    Matvey, well, you understand everything perfectly. Well, I have a typo. Therefore, I repeat. Bulkin, in my opinion (possibly erroneous), was the first to use an overhead piston connected to a bolt frame with a rotary shutter on his machine gun. Why the hell do you bring me SVT as an example? And, accordingly, people whipping up AK simply took and quite legally stole this decision from a competitor. What's wrong? Well, not stolen, but communized.
                    And do not argue about the layout, Well, the spring enters the butt. These are particular decisions within the layout scheme. It is not located below or from the side; instead of a spring, another solution was not used.
                  8. mat-vey April 9 2020 04: 27 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    Therefore, I repeat. Bulkin, in my opinion (possibly erroneous), was the first to use an overhead piston connected to a bolt frame with a rotary shutter on his machine gun.

                    There are mistakes, but there is stupidity - moreover, it’s kind of primordial and not overcomeable - And where do you order Dementyev? Or, well, its reality for the sake of your devious ideas?
                  9. ager1751 April 9 2020 08: 08 New
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                    Well, finally, you expressed a good idea. Indeed, Demen'ev has the same scheme. So, one of them was the first to implement such a solution. And it was from them that this decision was borrowed by ak. Question to your sect: a matter of bygone days, for a long time you will still be brainwashing people with your abstruse theory of the genius of one person, completely denying the obvious things?
                  10. mat-vey April 9 2020 08: 24 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    And it was from them that this decision was borrowed by ak.

                    Do you succumb to training? Or how?
                    "The transition to the bolt frame as a one-piece assembly with a piston rod was not stipulated by the recommendations of the range for finalizing the machine due to the fact that the TTT required that the magazine be equipped with cartridges from the cage without separation from the weapon. Developer AK-46 "was the only designer who fulfilled this requirement by creating automation like self-loading and automatic rifles."
                  11. ager1751 April 9 2020 08: 45 New
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                    Matvey, do not write off your "teachers". There was no such requirement in TTT. Your sectarians came up with this version to justify the unsuccessful conepia embodied in the first ak-46. Dementyev and Bulkin would simply not be allowed to enter the competition at the design stage .. And there were about one and a half dozens of projects
                  12. mat-vey April 9 2020 12: 07 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    Matvey, do not write off your "teachers". There was no such requirement in TTT.

                    My "teachers" are direct participants in the competitions. Although sectarians like you know everything better ...
                  13. ager1751 April 9 2020 16: 48 New
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                    Memoirs are not always a reflection of real events. Especially in such a legendary topic.
                  14. mat-vey April 10 2020 04: 27 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    There was no such requirement in TTT.

                    Well, your fantasies quite accurately reflect real events, though you don’t even have a vague idea of ​​even the elementary structure of at least the competition leaders ...
                  15. ager1751 April 10 2020 05: 59 New
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                    Well, you also had a vague idea about the real structure of the other participants. Therefore, he presented me with Llys and Sts. Then, after my repeated remarks that you were looking for something wrong, I accidentally discovered Dementyev. And now, by the way, we can argue that Dementiev and Bulkin were the first in this matter. Those. some kind of rational kernel appeared in our discussion. No wonder so many letters were used up. And as for the requirement of recharging from the clip, this is fiction and nonsense. GAU could not present an absurd demand. In a rifle, this is justified, but in store systems for what? Moreover, the intermediate cartridge has not yet been loaded into clips, SKS were adopted only in 49. Does the fighter, in the opinion of the authors of this crap, have to carry clips as well? A piston not connected to the frame was used in the Schmeiser version of the AK-46 to reduce momentum recoil .. The idea is correct, but failed.
                  16. mat-vey April 11 2020 04: 32 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    Well, about the real device of the other participants, you also had a vague idea

                    Another bitten Wangoy?
                    Quote: ager1751
                    Then, after my repeated remarks that you were looking for something wrong, I accidentally discovered Dementyev.

                    I just could not even imagine that your level of amateurism is so high.
                    Quote: ager1751
                    SCS were adopted only in 49.

                    It turns out even higher ..
                    Quote: ager1751
                    The piston not connected to the frame was used in the Schmeiser version of the AK-46 to reduce the recoil momentum ..

                    And this is no longer amateurism .... this is a transition to another level ...
                  17. ager1751 April 11 2020 06: 19 New
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                    MATVEY, one cannot argue with such pride, walk around women and play dominoes - you will always fail.
                  18. mat-vey April 11 2020 06: 25 New
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                    Ek you yourself ... although at least you should know about yourself ...
                    There was no dispute with you - on your side there were standard Internet tales of "having a vague idea" ... It's all been chewed-chewed for a long time. Even here in VO, but there are always individuals - either after hibernation, or with some kind of psychological problems.
                  19. ager1751 April 11 2020 07: 40 New
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                    This is the fault of yours, those who chew on the Internet - there is not enough practice, or even the complete absence thereof. Hence the belief in beautiful legends. There would be no life experience in the storytelling.
                  20. mat-vey April 11 2020 07: 44 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    .It would be life experience on the storytelling would not be conducted.

                    Judging by your storytelling, you have not one hundred "life experiences", you don’t even know what it is ..
                  21. ager1751 April 11 2020 07: 47 New
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                    For God's sake, let it be your way.
                  22. mat-vey April 11 2020 07: 49 New
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                    There is no God, but to the opinion of such a specialist, part-time tram boom - from a high bell tower ..
                  23. ager1751 April 11 2020 07: 57 New
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                    Maybe not, But judging by your comments, it’s just you who is a tram boor. Although I speak with you on you, I do it politely. When you make mistakes, you always slide into the individual. Can't you learn how to play dominoes, Matvey.
                  24. mat-vey April 11 2020 11: 17 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    When do you make mistakes?

                    waiting for the listing of "errors" ...
                  25. ager1751 April 11 2020 14: 48 New
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                    Do not wait. Carefully and conscientiously re-read all correspondence from the beginning.
                  26. mat-vey 1 May 2020 07: 29 New
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                    For what? What would once again be convinced of your .. let's just say - sufficiently developed stupidity?
                  27. ager1751 3 May 2020 17: 34 New
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                    Matvey, did you drink something?
                  28. mat-vey 3 May 2020 17: 37 New
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                    What, the habit is always only to judge by yourself?
                  29. ager1751 5 May 2020 08: 00 New
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                    Come on. I understand. You answered in 19 days. For a long time you come out of a corkscrew.
                  30. mat-vey 5 May 2020 09: 04 New
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                    Quote: ager1751
                    You answered in 19 days.

                    What did you miss, miss? If CHE - I'm not like that.
                  31. ager1751 5 May 2020 11: 37 New
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                    It’s noticeable that you are not like that.
                  32. mat-vey 5 May 2020 11: 41 New
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                    And what else is noticeable to such an unsurpassed specialist?
  • Siberian54 April 2 2020 16: 55 New
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    So the amateur’s notes, the end of 1942 and the beginning of 1943 ... Commander-in-Chief I.V. Stalin only just stopped distributing AUTHORITICALLY automatic weapons at the front .. And who, in such military-economic conditions, will begin to release new items with childhood diseases ????? The same PPS in large numbers only appeared to storm Berlin ..
  • John22 April 2 2020 22: 38 New
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    For the concern - shame, not a movie. With a specialist, it would be necessary to rehearse what to say and what to show. Half the time chatter about nothing, but with the materiel of work for a minute. If you show the controls - then show specifically and in close-up, if you do incomplete disassembly - so to the end: separate the bolt, clutch from the moderator, firing pin and return-coil spring. the impression is that the consultant does not know the device and is scaredly limited in time. Or for 10 minutes the "film" was not enough?
    1. mat-vey April 3 2020 07: 00 New
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      And they have all the videos in this series ... Here, at least they sorted it out, showed it, more often a couple of phrases and a general plan.