About the Kalashnikov submachine gun of the 1942 model in six minutes

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Concern "Kalashnikov" launched a special project dedicated to armscreated by Mikhail Kalashnikov. This project is dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the birth of this outstanding person (noted in November 2019). The project is called "Kalashnikov 100".

The head of the funds department of the military-historical artillery museum Ruslan Chumak in a 6-minute video tells about what is a Kalashnikov submachine gun, developed in 1942. This is the first surviving weapon model that was developed by the legendary domestic gunsmith - Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov.



It is also the first Kalashnikov weapon to be tested at the GAU KA proving ground.

The creation of a submachine gun began to be carried out after Mikhail Kalashnikov was wounded at the front. While in the hospital, he began research on the creation of such weapons, and by the summer of 1942 the model was born.

One of the advantages of such a weapon is its compactness and relatively low weight. The submachine gun is equipped with a folding butt and a front handle.

About all the features of the 1942 model submachine gun - in the clip of the Kalashnikov concern.

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    1. +5
      31 March 2020 05: 16
      "One of the advantages of such a weapon is its compactness and relatively low weight." - Well, he made it specifically for tankers. He understood what was what - it was not for nothing that he was a tank commander.
    2. +1
      31 March 2020 06: 28
      In the film "Kalashnikov" well about this PP, the hero of Degtyarev said:
      "... as a combat specimen, he was, to put it mildly," shitty ", but as a homemade product made from a piece of iron, in a barn, he made an impression ..."
      1. +3
        31 March 2020 06: 33
        Quote: svp67
        but as a homemade product made from a piece of iron, in a barn, made an impression ... "

        A copy of the GAU test was not homemade ..
        1. -1
          31 March 2020 07: 19
          Quote: mat-vey
          A copy of the GAU test was not homemade ..

          But its appearance, says little about its readiness for mass production
          1. +1
            31 March 2020 07: 24
            Quote: svp67
            But its appearance, says little about its readiness for mass production

            How did you determine this? And yes, the "appearance" of the PPS-42 looks like a homemade product, not even from a piece of iron, but from a sheet of iron even more.
            1. +2
              31 March 2020 07: 45
              Quote: mat-vey
              And yes, the "appearance" of PPS-42 looks like a homemade product, not even from a piece of iron, but from a sheet of iron even more resembles ..

              Yes there is such a thing ...
              Also made in the "barn". But PPS-43 is already better
              Quote: mat-vey
              How did you determine this?

              Well, if only because Kalashnikov upgraded it already at the training ground and there was a high time for special milling processing during its manufacture. And yet, what is shown here is already the second option, in which a slightly reworked casing from PPSh is used in particular, and it looks alien on it, in terms of workmanship.
              1. 0
                31 March 2020 07: 55
                Quote: svp67
                that Kalashnikov upgraded it already at the training ground and there was a high time for special milling processing in its manufacture

                And you determined it in appearance, or everything is so disassembling ...
                Quote: svp67
                a converted casing from PPSh, it looks alien on it, in terms of workmanship.

                ????????
                it seems, on the contrary, parts from a serially produced one are more conducive to "readiness for mass production"
                Well, to be absolutely accurate, though, M.T. Kalashnikov even took part in the competition, although at the final stage he didn’t do his own command post for this contest - he did the checkpoint for arming tankers and crews of other armored vehicles for a specific task.
                1. 0
                  31 March 2020 08: 05
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  And you determined it in appearance, or everything is so disassembling ...

                  This is even visible on the receiver ...
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  it seems, on the contrary, parts from a serially produced one are more conducive to "readiness for mass production"

                  I agree, but it puts an end to using it from a tank ... A casing would interfere with this.
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Well, to be completely accurate, though, M.T. Kalashnikov, although he took part in the competition, although at the final stage he did not do his PP for this competition

                  https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5b041b4ea815f1619f0dd45c/pistoletpulemet-kalashnikova-obr-1942-vtoroi-5b896b8b08a76b00a9342211

                  It is characteristic that the last modifications of his submachine gun Mikhail Kalashnikov made already at the training ground, immediately before the tests - they were listed in a separate act. In particular, a new barrel was delivered, taken from the PPSh and altered to the dimensions for the sergeant’s sample, a new reload handle, a trigger disconnector, a pull from it, and a number of other parts were manufactured and mounted.
                  "In terms of design and manufacturability, the Kalashnikov PP is significantly inferior to the Sudaev PP, and in this respect it has no advantages over the standard PP-41 model.

                  The configuration of all parts of the Kalashnikov PP is designed in such a way that, in their manufacture, it requires machine (mainly milling) and locksmith work. For example: when manufacturing a spiral shutter tube in the mechanical laboratory of the NIPSVO KA, it took 12 machine-hours of highly qualified labor (7th grade), and for the final finishing, it is still necessary to milling the head and metalwork. "
                  1. 0
                    31 March 2020 09: 05
                    Quote: svp67
                    This is even visible on the receiver ...

                    Well, you have eyes too .. They tested it at the training ground, but here it’s from the photo ...
                    1. 0
                      31 March 2020 09: 34
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Well, you have eyes ..

                      Sorry, but the poor workmanship, no offense and the fault of MTK, is visible in all his first works.

                      And maybe even this is a plus, he learned to make his products so that they could be made in "garages"
                      1. +1
                        31 March 2020 09: 46
                        According to this criterion, PPS-43 was of even lower quality of workmanship ... But it is because of its high manufacturability ...
                        And yes, Kalashnikov’s are all prototypes that no one brought for one reason or another. The first prototypes of Sudaev also had flaws.
                        By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...
                        1. 0
                          31 March 2020 09: 47
                          Quote: mat-vey
                          By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...

                          I agree that before AKM it was really "not a gift".
                        2. +1
                          31 March 2020 10: 34
                          You are probably hinting at the receiver? This is of course the same. But a bolt with a bolt carrier is simple, as one "metalworker" noticed - a technologist's nightmare. But the technologists solved this problem even at AK. There are rumors that the number of various technologists in IzhMash during development of AK reached 200-from ..
    3. +1
      31 March 2020 10: 07
      These disputes are "nothing". In prototypes, the concept is worked out, and only then the product is being finalized in the technological plan for the tasks of mass production.
      1. 0
        31 March 2020 10: 36
        Uh-uh- Today, 09:46 "And yes, Kalashnikov has all the prototypes that no one brought up for one reason or another. The first prototypes of Sudaev also had shortcomings."
    4. -1
      31 March 2020 11: 02
      A person does not know how to behave in front of the camera. He shoots with his eyes, does not know what to do with his hands ... Maybe he is a specialist, but they TEACH TV journalism! And the phrase "not current ..."
      1. -1
        April 1 2020 18: 02
        Sorry, of course, he’s not a girl for you to like or you have other, unconventional views ...
    5. +2
      31 March 2020 13: 41
      Quote: svp67
      In the film "Kalashnikov" well about this PP, the hero of Degtyarev said:
      "... as a combat specimen, he was, to put it mildly," shitty ", but as a homemade product made from a piece of iron, in a barn, he made an impression ..."

      Well, all design products are in fact "homemade from a piece of iron." This is already in preparation for production, when technologies are being developed and tooling is made ...
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. +1
      31 March 2020 16: 17
      Quote: svp67
      Quote: mat-vey
      By the way - AK was also far from a gift to a manufacturing technologist ...

      I agree that before AKM it was really "not a gift".

      Judging by the book of Malimon, AKM also drank a lot of blood technology for technologists ...
    8. 0
      31 March 2020 16: 22
      Quote: bbss
      These disputes are "nothing". In prototypes, the concept is worked out, and only then the product is being finalized in the technological plan for the tasks of mass production.

      If the design was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much then do not refine, you will not get a good result.
      1. 0
        April 1 2020 05: 39
        Quote: tolancop
        If the design was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production

        How to be with BCC?
        1. 0
          April 2 2020 15: 53
          As far as I understand, "VSS" hides "Vintorez" .... Compare the circulation of Vintorez with the circulation of PPSh, PPS, AK family ... And at the same time the cost of production (number of machine hours), requirements for the availability of special (specialized) equipment, personnel qualifications and etc.
          1. 0
            April 3 2020 06: 57
            Quote: tolancop
            As far as I understand, "VSS" hides "Vintorez" .... Compare the circulation of Vintorez with the circulation of PPSh, PPS, AK family ... And at the same time the cost of production (number of machine hours), requirements for the availability of special (specialized) equipment, personnel qualifications and etc.

            T E. You prizanaete that the barrel was originally created "without taking into account the requirements of mass production"?
            1. 0
              April 4 2020 21: 59
              mat-vey, naturally admit. Although I’ll directly say that I am not a specialist in the field of weapons.
              I admit that the phrase I wrote earlier had to be constructed a little differently, so that there was an unambiguous interpretation. Probably, it was necessary to write "If the design, WHICH IS PROPOSED TO MAKE MASS, was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much later do not modify ...". Is that clearer? VSS is a tool for solving a certain range of tasks and is not needed by everyone and not always. For him, his own requirements for cost, manufacturability, etc. For weapons with the prospect of making hundreds of thousands of copies, the picture is radically different. And the appearance of the PPSh, I believe, was largely facilitated by the obviousness that attempts to modify the PPD already in service with similar characteristics will yield nothing, since the design is such. Well, not to make a normal truck out of a bus, but a trolleybus out of a truck .... You can try, but the result is ... hmm. known in advance.
              1. 0
                April 5 2020 04: 53
                Quote: tolancop
                And I believe that the emergence of PPSh was promoted to a large extent by the obviousness that attempts to modify the PPS already available in armament with similar characteristics will not work, because such a design.

                Actually it was a weapon contest competition ...
                Quote: tolancop
                "If the design, WHICH IS PROPOSED TO MAKE MASS, was originally created without taking into account the requirements of mass production, then how much later do not modify ..."

                Well, the Kalashnikov assault rifle was "finalized" ...
                It's just that the "phrase" is really not unambiguous, and I took the liberty of pondering ..... Because I repeat - for that time AK was not very good for cheap mass production ...
    9. -1
      31 March 2020 20: 04
      Well, where are the talkers about Schmeiser? Quite an original design. He would be brought to mind and he wears buyers ...
      1. -1
        April 1 2020 20: 35
        Well look at Thomson
        1. 0
          April 2 2020 10: 10
          Quote: ager1751
          Well look at Thomson

          And what about Thompson? The receiver is rectangular?
          1. 0
            April 5 2020 07: 17
            You talked about some original design. But in fact it was an ordinary attempt to make the Soviet analogue of the Western model,
            1. 0
              April 5 2020 07: 38
              Quote: ager1751
              You talked about some original design. But in fact it was an ordinary attempt to make the Soviet analogue of the Western model,

              As I understand you are a design specialist about "Thompson"?
    10. -1
      April 1 2020 18: 00
      Of course, what did he think about creating AK? Could ergonomic already then create or not given ??
      1. -1
        April 1 2020 20: 44
        Everyone has already been squeezed out from the storm trooper. There were no ideas. And the task at that moment, to make your hever, was completed.
        1. 0
          April 2 2020 10: 16
          Quote: ager1751
          Everyone has already been squeezed out from the storm trooper.

          And what did they "squeeze out" that? AK and Gever are constructively little more than nothing.
          1. 0
            April 5 2020 07: 26
            Firstly, the idea itself, secondly, the copied layout, especially in the AK-46, thirdly, an unsuccessful attempt to achieve the main combat characteristics of weapons - accuracy and accuracy.
            1. 0
              April 5 2020 07: 37
              Quote: ager1751
              First, the idea itself,

              And what kind of "idea" is that?
              Quote: ager1751
              copied layout, especially in ak-46

              Yes, my friend, neither about the AK-46 nor about the StG, nor where ... And which of the variants of the AK-46 on your version "copied" the StG?
              Quote: ager1751
              unsuccessful attempt to achieve the main combat characteristics of weapons - accuracy and accuracy.

              What do you know about the "accuracy and accuracy" of the StG?
              1. 0
                April 5 2020 09: 32
                The idea of ​​an assault rifle.
                Copied from hever, naturally, that version on which Kalashnikov worked, and which is now called option No. 1. What later became known as ak-47 was already a revised product using ideas, including Bulkin.
                Accuracy and accuracy of hever? Well here, only by experts' estimates can one judge. The Germans didn’t ever release anything ill-conceived and of poor quality. And if there was an oblique shutter on the gever, then this was a deliberate and competent decision, on which, among other things, accuracy depends.
                1. 0
                  April 5 2020 09: 45
                  Quote: ager1751
                  The idea of ​​an assault rifle.

                  The idea of ​​an assault rifle fought in World War I. And not in one country ...
                  Quote: ager1751
                  Germans of ill-conceived and poor quality never released anything.

                  That hever had more complaints than shots - are you talking about the unresolved problem of lateral tearing of the cartridge case and sticking the cartridge in the course? Or is the German enthusiastic?
                  Quote: ager1751
                  Naturally, that version on which Kalashnikov worked, and which is now called option No. 1. What later became known as ak-47 was already a revised product using ideas, including Bulkin

                  All the same, you are strong in design - the AK-46 had several options and not one with a hever except for the barrel and the principle of "gas-operated" automation had nothing in common. And the Ak-47 had options. And if you dragged Bulkin, then don't forget to mention Sudaev's "ideas" in his "completely revised version" for the second competition ..
                  1. 0
                    April 5 2020 11: 55
                    Sudaev, of course, was the first to make a Soviet assault rifle, which was brought, even to an experimental one, of production. I did not drag Bulkin. Bulkin’s bolt frame is present in ac. The barrel and the principle of gas exhaust embodied in gever is the key decision around which all our developments, starting from Sudaev, developed. Transverse rupture of the sleeve? Perhaps. But everything is fixable, he was the first. In service stood 40 years. What shortcomings were there in ak nobody will write in detail. Why did he lose in the contest no one will tell you the model of Bulkin. Yes, and who worked out the ideas of an assault rifle in 1MB? I have never heard of this.
                    1. 0
                      April 6 2020 05: 39
                      Quote: ager1751
                      Bulkin’s bolt frame is present in ac.

                      The shutter frame for the AK from the AK for the AB-46 is for the AB-46, but its rod mount with the gas piston is exactly the same for the AS-44, if you take on the closest analogies ..
                      Quote: ager1751
                      The barrel and the gas exhaust principle embodied in gever is the key solution around which all our developments have developed

                      Does Monsieur have any idea of ​​SVT?
                      Quote: ager1751
                      In service stood 40 years. What shortcomings were there in ak nobody will write in detail.

                      And where did he stand? In Africa?
                      Quote: ager1751
                      Why did he lose in the contest no one will tell you the model of Bulkin.

                      So how does anyone know who is not lazy and does not play the conspiracy theory? Maybe because at least they read and learned about contests for the creation of machines?

                      Quote: ager1751
                      Yes, and who worked out the ideas of an assault rifle in 1MB? I have never heard of this.

                      "never" your middle name is not Odysseus?
                      On the side of the double-barreled carabiner of Ribeirol and the same Fedorov rifle ...

                      AK 7,62 PS
                      Weight, kg - 4,8 (with an equipped magazine)
                      Length, mm - 870/1070 (with bayonet)
                      Barrel length, mm - 415
                      Actual fire, m ~ 400
                      Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                      Muzzle velocity, m / s - 710-725
                      Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1990—2080
                      The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,5
                      Bullet weight, g - 7,9
                      Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds

                      Automatic Fedorov 6,5x50 mm Arisaka
                      Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                      Length, mm - 1045
                      Barrel length, mm - 520
                      Actual fire, m ~ 400
                      Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                      Muzzle velocity, m / s - 660-770
                      Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1950—2150
                      The mass of the cartridge, g - 20
                      Bullet weight, g - 8,9
                      Type of ammunition - box magazine 25 rounds

                      Sturmgewehr 44 7,92x33 Kurz
                      Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                      Length, mm - 940
                      Barrel length, mm - 420
                      Actual fire, m ~ 400
                      Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                      Muzzle velocity, m / s - 680-690
                      Muzzle energy of a bullet, J ~ 1900
                      The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,7
                      Bullet weight, g - 8,1
                      Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds
                      1. 0
                        April 6 2020 08: 19
                        Fedorov’s rifle and this second (you’ll say a damn) assault rifles were not. And besides you, no one ever called them. An assault rifle, however, implies an intermediate cartridge.
                        The bolt frame had to be taken from Bulkin after unsuccessful attempts to extinguish the recoil momentum with a more complex separate circuit. Sudayev, however, is skewed and the frame is slightly different Naturally, both Bulkin and Sudaev took this scheme from the gever.
                        The top location of the gas vent is Save, patent, or him or Manlicher. The layout of this node in all of our (length, size, distance) is much closer to gever than to Simonov or Tokarev, but in fact is a copy of it
                        1. 0
                          April 6 2020 08: 38
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Fedorov’s rifle and this second (you’ll say a damn) assault rifles were not. And besides you, no one ever called them. The assault rifle, nevertheless, implies an intermediate cartridge

                          So neither I called them, you in addition and about the history of the intermediate cartridge do not know anything - a complete set, so to speak.

                          Quote: ager1751
                          The bolt frame had to be taken from Bulkin after unsuccessful attempts to extinguish the recoil momentum with a more complex separate circuit. Sudayev, however, is skewed and the frame is slightly different Naturally, both Bulkin and Sudaev took this scheme from the gever.

                          After the second stage of the competition canceled the clause on reloading with an attached store, the need for a short stroke disappeared and it was possible to do automation already on a long stroke. The Czechs used this scheme on mass models back in the 20s ... article like the trigger trigger.
                          You should have studied and quoted the "conspiracies", but just to start with Malimon's book at least familiarized yourself, otherwise you just got tired of printing sheets on issues that have long been sucked and here on VO and around the Internet ..
                        2. 0
                          April 6 2020 11: 02
                          Not understood? Who painted two barrels for me as an example of the idea of ​​an assault rifle? Ie the very concept of "assault rifle" for you is that which shoots automatically?
                          The second one. Bulkin means he put the bolt on the terms of the competition and immediately made a long move, and Kalashnikov sacredly followed the conditions? Or maybe the matter was that the commission recognized the AK-46 scheme as unsuitable and unsuccessful and had to urgently redo the design? And to put it mildly, push it through, using corporate opportunities, as they would say now.
                          Believe less on patriotic versions of the creation of the world, less suck them in all forums, and then you will not need to print extensive sheets on a long-understood topic.
                        3. 0
                          April 6 2020 11: 23
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Ie the very concept of "assault rifle" for you is that which shoots automatically?

                          Where does such a brilliant conclusion come from?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          The second one. Bulkin means he put the bolt on the terms of the competition and immediately made a long move, and Kalashnikov sacredly followed the conditions?

                          You are sometimes quick-witted.
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Or maybe the matter was that the commission recognized the AK-46 scheme as unsuitable and unsuccessful and had to urgently redo the design?

                          You don’t even know the dropout criteria for the second competition ...
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Believe less on patriotic versions of the creation of the world

                          And you're funny .... Instead of looking for documents, memoirs of eyewitnesses, those who remained alive after the secrecy period expired - you mean some kind of "theory".
                        4. 0
                          April 6 2020 12: 15
                          Matvey, don't slow down. My brilliant conclusion is based on your misunderstanding of the term "assault rifle". You proposed a theory, quite patriotic, that Fedorov's rifle, they say, was already in the assault rifle. Right? In part, you may be right. But the whole arms world does not classify it that way.
                          Second, Matvey, well, you also can’t keep abreast of the dropout criteria in the second stage, and draw conclusions only based on the subjective memories of the participants. Well, who will destroy the legend in recollections? Who will directly say that the shutter ak-46, damaged from the guards, did not fit for automatic fire, because It was created for a self-loading, not an automatic rifle. That ak simply did not go through the second stage, and that Lyuty, taking advantage of the fact that he was in the commission, did everything to push the ak.
                        5. 0
                          April 6 2020 12: 33
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Matvey, don't slow down. My brilliant conclusion is based on your misunderstanding of the term "assault rifle".

                          And what is my "understanding"? I have never mentioned this "understanding", but here are value judgments
                          .
                          Quote: ager1751
                          and draw conclusions only on the subjective memories of the participants.

                          Well, if the members of the selection committee and the test engineers, those who made the decisions, have biased memories of their decisions - what is it about?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Who will directly say that the shutter ak-46, torn

                          You should at least look at the pictures of this shutter before talking nonsense - but the AK shutter from the Guarantor only has an idea of ​​its own implementation.
                        6. 0
                          April 6 2020 13: 24
                          Well, at the second stage it was deemed unsuitable for further refinement.
                        7. 0
                          April 6 2020 14: 01
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Well, at the second stage it was deemed unsuitable for further refinement.

                          And in the second stage it was already AK-47 ..
                        8. 0
                          April 6 2020 16: 04
                          He became him after the second stage.
                        9. 0
                          April 6 2020 16: 24
                          In the second competition there were only two rounds. After the second, it was essentially AK.
                        10. 0
                          April 6 2020 17: 36
                          For heaven’s sake, even if there were only two stages, all the more so in the memoirs they go through this topic casually, because they couldn’t reasonably explain how they didn’t sleep on one machine, worked and thought over it, suddenly it became completely different and made an amazing comeback.
                        11. 0
                          April 6 2020 17: 42
                          Quote: ager1751
                          because they couldn’t reasonably explain,

                          Maybe it's just a matter of "reason"?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          as one machine on which days and nights did not sleep, worked, thought over, suddenly became completely different

                          Because he became, that did not sleep, worked, thought out?
                        12. 0
                          April 6 2020 18: 16
                          Of course, in the "mind". Therefore, the version of Kalashnikov from his memoirs, where he talked about the seditious thought that visited him and Zaitsev, "maybe we will take everything and radically alter", will always have smart and loyal fans. And the stupid and do not understand anything in life will constantly poke at Schmeiser, Sudaev, Bulkin and ask: who is Fierce?
                        13. 0
                          April 6 2020 18: 20
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Therefore, the version of Kalashnikov from his memoirs, where he talked about the seditious thought that visited him and Zaitsev "maybe we will take everything and radically alter"

                          Did you manage to familiarize Kalashnikov himself with this version? Would it be stupid to "poke" on the Internet, to smoke materiel, and not to cheating conspiracy theories?
                        14. 0
                          April 6 2020 18: 25
                          Well, read the source, that would not work, as with the Fedorov rifle and the second, as it is there, which you randomly identified as the initiators of the ideas of the assault rifle.
                        15. 0
                          April 6 2020 18: 27
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Fedorov’s rifle and the second, like him there, whom you randomly identified as the initiators of the ideas of an assault rifle.

                          What an honor for me - determined ..
                          And what is your "primary source"? Contestants, then in the know about your primary source?
                        16. 0
                          April 6 2020 19: 06
                          Okay, especially for the followers of the sect "witnesses to the miracle of the year 47". From the book "The Gunsmith's Notes": "At this time, Sasha Zaitsev and I, secretly from the management (!!!), matured a daring plan: disguising themselves with modifications, to make a major re-arrangement of the entire machine gun (??? and before that, what were they doing? We went, of course, at a certain risk, the terms of the competition did not provide for the rearrangement. But it greatly simplified the device of the weapon, increased its reliability in operation. (?????????????, did not guess what could be easier?) One worried about whether we would be able to meet the time allotted for the completion of the sample. "
                          All this could be believed if V.F. Fierce in his memoirs would not write: "I came to the conclusion that the structure should be redone almost anew."
                        17. 0
                          April 7 2020 04: 39
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Okay, especially for the followers of the "witnesses of the miracle of 47"

                          Especially for the smart - "headed by the new head of the individual weapons testing unit V.F. Lyuty, who replaced V.P. Poddubny in this position."
                          And yet, yes, Poddubny and Lyuty were not the main "leadership" ..
                        18. 0
                          April 7 2020 07: 01
                          Where did I write to you that Fierce was their "leadership"? Their leadership was in Kovrov. It was in secret from them that they supposedly made some plans. In other words, a project signed by everyone was approved at the enterprise, weapons were developed, manufactured and tested, which were proposed for the competition, and two cool dudes who did not have any industrial authority decided to give it all up, because it seemed to them that they could do much better. Well, now they would simply be kicked out of the enterprise, and in 47, for this, it would be possible to save money on a ticket to Siberia. And Lyuty was the head of the testing department, and having long-standing and close ties with the Kovrovites, he showed, let's say, a loyal approach to their model. Although after the conclusion given to this image by the head of tests Pchelintsev, this sample should have been removed from the competition.
                        19. 0
                          April 7 2020 13: 12
                          Quote: ager1751
                          All this could be believed if V.F. Fierce in his memoirs would not write: "I came to the conclusion that the structure should be redone almost anew."

                          For what purpose was it written? If not a "manual", then why shake it in vain?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          In other words, the project was approved at the enterprise, signed by everyone, the weapons that were proposed for the competition were developed, manufactured and tested,

                          How to put it mildly ... this is a competition and everyone was simply obliged to eliminate the shortcomings identified in the designs, which were just "developed, manufactured and tested the weapon that was proposed for the competition", which naturally implied a redesign of the design - or you have another a way to bring prototypes to mind? Share your discovery, you can say just a universal scale ...
                        20. 0
                          April 7 2020 15: 19
                          Repairing flaws and completely redesigning the design are two different things.
                        21. 0
                          April 7 2020 15: 26
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Repairing flaws and completely redesigning the design are two different things.

                          And now what? AK-47 turned out to be completely wrong? And we met the deadlines for eliminating the "shortcomings". What are your claims? Kalashnikov stepped on his foot in the tram, but did not have time to spit on his back, now we are morally satisfied on the Internet ?
                        22. 0
                          April 7 2020 16: 07
                          Guessful you, Matthew, man. The machine also lost after processing. And if it were not for the breakdown of the Bulkin assault rifle due to the usual technical marriage in such cases, we would not have seen the Soviet army the most reliable and inaccurate assault rifle. And no one stepped on my foot in the tram - I do not ride the tram.
                        23. 0
                          April 7 2020 16: 24
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And no one stepped on my foot in the tram - I do not ride the tram.

                          And you will not say that - a typical tram boor ...
                          "When tested with a large number of shots under normal conditions on Bulkin assault rifles, 0,4-0,7% of delays were obtained. Their tests were stopped at a very early stage, with less than half the shot on each sample compared to the established norm of survivability, due to identified defects that cannot be corrected. The first sample - due to the breakage of the bolt carrier, the second - due to unsatisfactory extraction of the sleeves. " What a surprise, there was a second sample that did not break ...
                        24. 0
                          April 7 2020 16: 52
                          That's right. It was this that became the formal nit-picking to eliminate the competitor. After all, it is quite clear that the first sample broke due to technical defects. not because of a design error. And there was no unsatisfactory extraction of cartridges on it. And what did AK show?
                        25. 0
                          April 7 2020 16: 55
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And there was no unsatisfactory extraction of cartridges

                          Did you determine the method of extrasensory diagnostics?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And what did AK show?

                          And what did AK show?
                        26. 0
                          April 7 2020 17: 05
                          Do not you know? That's right, no one knows. In addition to no accuracy due to the cut trunk, he did not meet other TTT GAUs. But he was lucky - he did not break.
                        27. 0
                          April 7 2020 17: 23
                          Quote: ager1751
                          That's right, no one knows.

                          "Nobody" - why are you Odyssey?
                          "The final proving grounds tests of the machines were carried out in very specific conditions, one might even say, in conditions of special favor to all the participants in the competition. Many deviations from the usual procedures and rules established for this type of testing, rooted in the proving ground, were allowed."

                          "Insufficient energy balance of automation in the samples of Bulkin and Dementyev led to delays in their work associated with incomplete rollbacks and rolls of moving parts with the shutter not covered by the frame, and the distortion of the geometric profile of the barrel chamber in Bulkin's sample led to the non-removal of the casings by their ejector because of their tight extraction The first tight extraction of the sleeve on this system was observed when using heated cartridges. Later this manifested itself with unheated cartridges. Large efforts of extraction of the sleeves were in many cases the root cause of their "sticking" by moving parts after being removed from the chamber. shutter even before meeting with the reflector or unreliably reflected by it due to a decrease in the speed of recoil of parts due to tight extractions.

                          Tight extraction, especially in the case of a detachment of a part of the liner flange at the place of engagement of the ejector, was the most difficult delay in the method of elimination, and the causal connection with the manufacturing quality of the chamber made them practically unrecoverable in the test site by the method of debugging measures for the shutter assembly. These delays, including those with the margin of the sleeve detached, were also in the samples of Dementiev and Kalashnikov, but in isolated manifestations.
                        28. 0
                          April 7 2020 17: 56
                          Good story . And what about AK? The question was about AK.
                        29. 0
                          April 7 2020 18: 14
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Good story . And what about AK? The question was about AK.

                          But what is fate not to find? Although ...
                          "All the modified assault rifles did not show major shifts towards improving this combat performance. Compared to previous tests, there was some tendency to improve the accuracy of all systems, but this could also be explained by an increase in the training of test shooters in firing this type of weapon. this and the modified compensator brakes, which was confirmed by special experimental shooting. "
                        30. 0
                          April 7 2020 18: 46
                          Matvey is a story. A story on the topic of a bad Bulkin assault rifle, by the way, the only one that met the requirements of the GAU for accuracy. Where is the story about a unique development with a shortened barrel and holes in the barrel to reduce pressure on the piston? Indeed, the world's first weapon with a hole in the barrel. And why did it win?
                          And the story with heber ended when Lyuty ordered Schmeisser's fake to be completely reworked, to return to where we started, that is. with Sudaev’s machine gun, add Bulkin’s bolt frame and bring the trigger to the mind.
                        31. 0
                          April 8 2020 03: 39
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Matvey is a story. A story on the topic of a bad Bulkin assault rifle, by the way, the only accuracy factor that met the requirements of the GAU

                          Only in one standard, although why do you need everything else? After all, this is enough for a conspiracy theory ... And where, accordingly, the story about the shortened barrel of the AB-46, or is it the same thing that does not fit into the "conspiracy"?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And the story with hever ended when Lyuty ordered Schmeiser fake to be completely reworked

                          Are you generally able to distinguish one design from another? Or is there a wooden butt there too? Although the passage about the "Thompson" ... is generally clear.
                          Quote: ager1751
                          from Sudaev’s machine gun, add Bulkin bolt frame

                          AK has its own shutter frame; AB has its own, although for designers it makes no difference ...
                          Quote: ager1751
                          and bring to mind

                          And what can you say for the recommendations to Bulkin and Dementiev? In your universe did the commission give any recommendations for revision to them?
                        32. 0
                          April 7 2020 18: 20
                          So, what's new about Hever?
                        33. 0
                          April 8 2020 07: 20
                          Matvey, well, you’ve been in the army for at least two years, but still served. Well, not the design. The layout scheme, Matvey, ergonomically 90% similar to Hever was used in AK-46, because it was recommended to use it in GAU as early as 43 years. Just like before, the Thomson layout scheme was borrowed. And the layout scheme largely affects both directly and indirectly the characteristics of the weapon. And, of course, his bolt frame doesn’t work for Bulkin. This solution (the piston connected to the frame and the shutter rotation) was borrowed from Bulkin, after Bulkin worked it out, tested it. And no matter how the first he applied it in this form. But he didn’t succeed in shoving the uncanny, he had to cut the barrel of the AK to fit in the TTT. And the recoil momentum turned out to be excessive, I had to drill holes in the barrel well, etc. But Bulkin, thank God, broke.
                        34. 0
                          April 8 2020 07: 31
                          Quote: ager1751
                          The layout scheme, Matvey, ergonomically 90% similar to Hever was used in AK-46, because it was recommended to use it in GAU as early as 43 years.

                          Are you serious? And where is the spring in the butt? And the gas engine with a short stroke and side in addition?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Just like the earlier Thomson layout scheme was borrowed

                          Why not MP or Suomi?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And, of course, his bolt frame doesn’t work for Bulkin. This solution (the piston connected to the frame and the shutter rotation) was borrowed from Bulkin, after Bulkin worked it out, tested it.

                          The piston connected to the frame is the same ZB, hever, AC-44, Lewis machine gun .... But the gates are all different because the frame design itself is different, but the designers do not care - they have a plot ..
                          Quote: ager1751
                          But Bulkin, thank God, broke.

                          Does Monsieur even know that Bulkin’s barrel was shortened by 70 mm?

                          It's not funny with you anymore, it's already scary with you ...
                        35. 0
                          April 8 2020 09: 05
                          Matvey, Attention. Layout scheme. That is, the mutual arrangement of nodes and assemblies that determines their interaction. For example: the engine in your front, the drive wheels in the back, or the engine in the rear, the drive wheels in the back. And what engine do you care about, that is, in our case, what is your locking unit, trigger and where the spring does not interest anyone. And the second one. I, damn it, specially wrote to you in brackets, I decipher it: an upstream piston with a frame and a shutter skew. What do you bring me lis with zb? And the last one. Perhaps Bulkin cut the trunk. I'll take your word for it, but it just didn’t affect the accuracy, unlike ak.
                        36. 0
                          April 8 2020 10: 26
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Matvey, Attention. Layout scheme. That is, the mutual arrangement of nodes and assemblies that determines their interaction.

                          Especially for super-alternative technical geniuses - a return spring in a gever in the butt of the AK in the receiver, although again for the super-alternative it is an unimportant element, as well as some kind of piece of iron. And it does not matter that it affects the operation of the whole mechanism.
                          And again, the SVT has a piston on top and a rotary shutter ... And the AC-44 also has an upper piston and a rigid connection "And what kind of engine you have does not bother anyone, that is, in our case, what kind of locking unit you have"
                          Quote: ager1751
                          I, damn it, specially wrote to you in brackets, I decipher it: an upstream piston with a frame and a shutter skew.

                          Quote: ager1751
                          This is the solution (piston connected to the frame and turning the shutter)

                          Did Bulkin write this?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Perhaps Bulkin cut the trunk. I'll take your word for it

                          On earth, this was in the requirements of the commission, but in your universe about this information probably has not been preserved ...
                        37. 0
                          April 8 2020 16: 56
                          Matvey, well, you understand everything perfectly. Well, I have a typo. Therefore, I repeat. Bulkin, in my opinion (possibly erroneous), was the first to use an overhead piston connected to a bolt frame with a rotary shutter on his machine gun. Why the hell do you bring me SVT as an example? And, accordingly, people whipping up AK simply took and quite legally stole this decision from a competitor. What's wrong? Well, not stolen, but communized.
                          And do not argue about the layout, Well, the spring enters the butt. These are particular decisions within the layout scheme. It is not located below or from the side; instead of a spring, another solution was not used.
                        38. 0
                          April 9 2020 04: 27
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Therefore, I repeat. Bulkin, in my opinion (possibly erroneous), was the first to use an overhead piston connected to a bolt frame with a rotary shutter on his machine gun.

                          There are mistakes, but there is stupidity - moreover, it’s kind of primordial and not overcomeable - And where do you order Dementyev? Or, well, its reality for the sake of your devious ideas?
                        39. 0
                          April 9 2020 08: 08
                          Well, finally, you expressed a good idea. Indeed, Demen'ev has the same scheme. So, one of them was the first to implement such a solution. And it was from them that this decision was borrowed by ak. Question to your sect: a matter of bygone days, for a long time you will still be brainwashing people with your abstruse theory of the genius of one person, completely denying the obvious things?
                        40. 0
                          April 9 2020 08: 24
                          Quote: ager1751
                          And it was from them that this decision was borrowed by ak.

                          Do you succumb to training? Or how?
                          "The transition to the bolt carrier, as to a one-piece assembly with a piston rod, was not stipulated by the recommendations of the landfill for finalizing the assault rifle due to the fact that the TTT provided for a requirement to ensure the possibility of equipping the magazine with cartridges from the clip without separating from the weapon. Developer AK-46 was the only one of the designers who fulfilled this requirement, creating an automatic system like self-loading and automatic rifles. "
                        41. 0
                          April 9 2020 08: 45
                          Matvey, don't copy from your "teachers". There was no such requirement in TTT. Your cultists came up with this version to justify the unfortunate konepia embodied in the first ak-46. Dementieva and Bulkin would simply not be admitted to the competition at the design stage .. And there were about one and a half children of projects
                        42. 0
                          April 9 2020 12: 07
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Matvey, don't copy from your "teachers". There was no such requirement in TTT.

                          My "teachers" are direct participants in competitions. Although sectarians like you know everything better ...
                        43. 0
                          April 9 2020 16: 48
                          Memoirs are not always a reflection of real events. Especially in such a legendary topic.
                        44. 0
                          April 10 2020 04: 27
                          Quote: ager1751
                          There was no such requirement in TTT.

                          Well, your fantasies quite accurately reflect real events, though you don’t even have a vague idea of ​​even the elementary structure of at least the competition leaders ...
                        45. 0
                          April 10 2020 05: 59
                          Well, you also had a vague idea about the real structure of the other participants. Therefore, he presented me with Llys and Sts. Then, after my repeated remarks that you were looking for something wrong, I accidentally discovered Dementyev. And now, by the way, we can argue that Dementiev and Bulkin were the first in this matter. Those. some kind of rational kernel appeared in our discussion. No wonder so many letters were used up. And as for the requirement of recharging from the clip, this is fiction and nonsense. GAU could not present an absurd demand. In a rifle, this is justified, but in store systems for what? Moreover, the intermediate cartridge has not yet been loaded into clips, SKS were adopted only in 49. Does the fighter, in the opinion of the authors of this crap, have to carry clips as well? A piston not connected to the frame was used in the Schmeiser version of the AK-46 to reduce momentum recoil .. The idea is correct, but failed.
                        46. 0
                          April 11 2020 04: 32
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Well, about the real device of the other participants, you also had a vague idea

                          Another bitten Wangoy?
                          Quote: ager1751
                          Then, after my repeated remarks that you were looking for something wrong, I accidentally discovered Dementyev.

                          I just could not even imagine that your level of amateurism is so high.
                          Quote: ager1751
                          SCS were adopted only in 49.

                          It turns out even higher ..
                          Quote: ager1751
                          The piston not connected to the frame was used in the Schmeiser version of the AK-46 to reduce the recoil momentum ..

                          And this is no longer amateurism .... this is a transition to another level ...
                        47. 0
                          April 11 2020 06: 19
                          MATVEY, one cannot argue with such pride, walk around women and play dominoes - you will always fail.
                        48. 0
                          April 11 2020 06: 25
                          Ek you yourself ... although at least you should know about yourself ...
                          There was no dispute with you - on your side were standard Internet fairy tales "having a vague idea" ... This is all chewed and chewed for a long time. Even here on VO, there are always individuals - either after hibernation, or with some kind of psychological problems.
                        49. 0
                          April 11 2020 07: 40
                          This is the fault of yours, those who chew on the Internet - there is not enough practice, or even the complete absence thereof. Hence the belief in beautiful legends. There would be no life experience in the storytelling.
                        50. 0
                          April 11 2020 07: 44
                          Quote: ager1751
                          .It would be life experience on the storytelling would not be conducted.

                          Judging by your stories, you don't have a hundred "life experience", you don't even know what it is ..
                        51. 0
                          April 11 2020 07: 47
                          For God's sake, let it be your way.
                        52. 0
                          April 11 2020 07: 49
                          There is no God, but to the opinion of such a specialist, part-time tram boom - from a high bell tower ..
                        53. 0
                          April 11 2020 07: 57
                          Maybe not, But judging by your comments, it’s just you who is a tram boor. Although I speak with you on you, I do it politely. When you make mistakes, you always slide into the individual. Can't you learn how to play dominoes, Matvey.
                        54. 0
                          April 11 2020 11: 17
                          Quote: ager1751
                          When do you make mistakes?

                          waiting for the listing of "errors" ...
                        55. 0
                          April 11 2020 14: 48
                          Do not wait. Carefully and conscientiously re-read all correspondence from the beginning.
                        56. 0
                          1 May 2020 07: 29
                          For what? What would once again be convinced of your .. let's just say - sufficiently developed stupidity?
                        57. -1
                          3 May 2020 17: 34
                          Matvey, did you drink something?
                        58. +1
                          3 May 2020 17: 37
                          What, the habit is always only to judge by yourself?
                        59. 0
                          5 May 2020 08: 00
                          Come on. I understand. You answered in 19 days. For a long time you come out of a corkscrew.
                        60. -1
                          5 May 2020 09: 04
                          Quote: ager1751
                          You answered in 19 days.

                          What did you miss, miss? If CHE - I'm not like that.
                        61. 0
                          5 May 2020 11: 37
                          It’s noticeable that you are not like that.
                        62. 0
                          5 May 2020 11: 41
                          And what else is noticeable to such an unsurpassed specialist?
    11. 0
      April 2 2020 16: 55
      So the amateur’s notes, the end of 1942 and the beginning of 1943 ... Commander-in-Chief I.V. Stalin only just stopped distributing AUTHORITICALLY automatic weapons at the front .. And who, in such military-economic conditions, will begin to release new items with childhood diseases ????? The same PPS in large numbers only appeared to storm Berlin ..
    12. +1
      April 2 2020 22: 38
      For the concern - shame, not a video. With a specialist it would be necessary to rehearse what to say and what to show. Half the time chatting about nothing, but with materiel work for a minute. If you show the controls, then show them concretely and in close-up, if you do an incomplete disassembly, so to the end: separate the bolt, the clutch from the retarder, the drummer and the reciprocating mainspring. the impression is that the consultant does not know the device and is terribly limited in time. Or was there not enough "tape" for 10 minutes?
      1. 0
        April 3 2020 07: 00
        And they have all the videos in this series ... Here, at least they sorted it out, showed it, more often a couple of phrases and a general plan.

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