Flight on the verge of stopping: loads on Su-57 pilots

Each aircraft armed with the Air Force is unique and behaves differently. With the advent of the fifth-generation fighter Su-57, Russian pilots had to adapt their skills to the new machine, honing them to perform aerobatics. About this argues the publication Sputnik.

From Cobra to Bell

The fascinating maneuvers of the planes that delight us at various air shows, in fact, serve practical purposes - to surpass the enemy, gain the upper hand and ultimately win the air battle.

For example, the famous “Cobra Pugachev” technique allows the crews of Su-27 fighters to beat the enemy pursuing them and exchange roles with him. Another maneuver, called the “Kvochura Bell”, is used by pilots to deceive enemy radars and air-to-air guided missiles, as well as to quickly reduce speed before hitting ground targets.

These maneuvers are often carried out on the verge of a plane stopping in the air, and only a few models, such as the Russian Su-27 or fifth-generation Su-57, are capable of performing them without serious risk of a crash

- writes Sputnik.

Maneuverability price

However, you have to pay a price for this. Pilots experience abnormally high levels of overload, sometimes approaching the allowed maximum limit of 9g, explains Russian test pilot and first performer of the Bell, Anatoly Kvochur.

With an indicator of 9g, the body weight of a person increases by 9 times. According to him, at first the arms and legs become heavier, it becomes more difficult to control the plane. Then the head begins to lean down. At 6g, ripples appear in front of the eyes. Under the influence of gravity, blood along the spine descends to the legs, leaving the brain devoid of oxygen and causing it to turn off. You lose the ability to see clearly and correctly perceive the current situation.

Only a handful of pilots are able to withstand such stress and maintain control of their jet aircraft during air combat. For the first time they "get acquainted" with overload on simulators, developing stability. Experienced pilots instinctively feel when they need to reduce the angle of attack during a maneuver to avoid the so-called G-LOC - loss of consciousness caused by gravity.

Special pilots help them. aviation costumes that were developed in the 1950s and have been constantly improved since then. They create pressure in the lower body, pushing blood back to the brain. As Kvochur explained, he tested one of the latest Russian developments, which “really helped” when he reached an overload level of 11,5 g.

Comments

[Same lech]

It’s a beautiful airplane and flies beautifully ... let's hope that it will also be beautiful to fight.
As for the overloads for the pilots, until we learn how to control gravity, we’ll have to put up with it ... the next generation of fighters seems to be controlled in unmanned mode or paired with a leading pilot ... otherwise their combat capabilities will not be raised.

[Insurgent]

Only a handful of pilots are able to withstand such stress and maintain control of their jet aircraft during air combat. For the first time they "get acquainted" with overload on simulators, developing stability. Experienced pilots instinctively feel when they need to reduce the angle of attack during a maneuver to avoid the so-called G-LOC - loss of consciousness caused by gravity.

Special aviation suits, which were developed in the 1950s and have been constantly improving since then, help them in piloting. They create pressure in the lower body, pushing blood back to the brain.

The Soviet Air Force faced the urgent need to somehow push back the threshold of the pilot's "blackout" under the influence of overloads in the skies of Korea.
It was then, on the basis of trophies, and the developments of domestic physiologists, and the first domestic compensatory, "anti-overload" suits were created ...

[Tenet]

Quote: The same Lech

It’s a beautiful airplane and flies beautifully ... let's hope that it will also be beautiful to fight.
As for the overloads for the pilots, until we learn how to control gravity, we’ll have to put up with it ... the next generation of fighters seems to be controlled in unmanned mode or paired with a leading pilot ... otherwise their combat capabilities will not be raised.

let's hope that he won’t have to fight ... !!!)

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

... otherwise their combat capabilities cannot be raised.

But what do you mean by combat capabilities? There is Pokryshkin’s formula, you won’t jump beyond it.

[Same lech]

There is Pokryshkin’s formula, you won’t get any further.

Of course there is ... but at the time of Pokryshkin there were no homing missiles and stealth technologies and over-the-horizon radars ... modern air combat has changed somewhat.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

overseas radars ..

These are such cumbersome constructions spaced in space, they have nothing to do with aerial combat. They can of course detect, for example, a mass takeoff of enemy aircraft from Ramstein or from an aircraft carrier, but the data will only give out at a distance. You will not direct anything from such data. significant order --- yes.

Quote: The same LYOKHA

at the time of Pokryshkin there were no homing missiles and stealth technologies

Nevertheless, the formula, oddly enough, works.

Stormbreaker 3 November 18, 2012 20:40
+3
PAK FA compared with American counterparts
Most modern fighters have computerized flight controls, and the devices also convert human efforts (changing the position of the handle or rudder pedals) into energy, which sets the machine's controls in motion. these devices limit the maneuvering ability of the aircraft so that the pilot's body can withstand the resulting overload. in fact, the wings, rudders and fluselage are also capable of withstanding overloads that will simply kill a person. the goal of the combat UAV program is to disembark the pilot from the plane and provide him with the opportunity to control from the information center. motto - "keep the pilot's head in the cockpit, let everything else stay at home"

new UAVs will have very high performance characteristics and will be able to solve tasks that are too dangerous for manned fighters. Removing a person from an airplane will eliminate many of the restrictions currently imposed on his design. the mass of the pilot is only 15% of the mass of the payload, while the cost of his life-support systems reaches almost 50% of the cost of the aircraft. the presence of the pilot in the cockpit determines the duration of the flight, the need to seal the cockpit, dictates a certain location of the power plants. limits maneuverability, etc. UAVs will make it possible to strike from high altitudes, as well as participate in conventional attacks on the roadside maneuverability of an air defense fighter and even their missile weapons.

[Very smart]

Well, you can, for example, spindle the Higgs boson generator. Gravity will decrease, feel better. Also an option.

[Host Tavern]

let's hope that fighting will also be beautiful.

Let's hope that you don’t have to fight !!!

[Vladimir_2U]

Something completely description for fifth graders, and second year students.

[Same lech]

Something completely description for fifth graders, and second year students.

Ask to give you official documents with the heading of Particleboard and Secret with a detailed description of all the characteristics of the aircraft ... everything is scientifically and technically painted.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Ask to give you official documents with the signature of the chipboard

I strongly doubt that such a poor level of presentation in particleboard:

They create pressure in the lower body, pushing blood back to the brain

[Grigory_45]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Ask to give you service documents marked with chipboard and Secret with a detailed description of all the characteristics of the aircraft

this is not necessary. Otherwise, those who are not involved will not understand. But, the information content, richness, style and presentation of the material has recently become severely limp. I agree with Vladimir_2U - on VO it would be worth writing more seriously, and not in the style "for housewives-blondes" (uninteresting and nothing)
Doesn’t it upset you yourself about the quality of the material you post (and read)?

[Tired]

And here a logical question arises: Why spend so much resources to support human life inside a combat vehicle? Isn’t it more logical to throw all the forces on drones, whose performance characteristics can easily go beyond the limits of a load acceptable for a person? The pilot of a modern combat vehicle is already forced to rely more on instrument readings than on his own eyes. So let the machine itself work according to the results of the readings of these devices. It works under those loads that it can withstand without the need to maintain the vital functions of the human body.

[Same lech]

Isn’t it more logical to throw all the forces on drones, whose performance characteristics can easily go beyond the limits of a load acceptable for a person?

While the machine does not know how to think like a person and make non-standard decisions in a rapidly changing environment ... well, for example, you need to strike at a column of people and this column suddenly turns out to be a wedding procession ... the machine will not be able to recognize this and will strike, killing many innocent people.

[Cowbra]

You described the US Air Force raid, not drones. Which suggests that the average American pilot is dumber than a pressure cooker

[Same lech]

the average American pilot is dumber than a pressure cooker

I don’t think ... Americans are more likely to relate to the lives of Aboriginal people in other countries as well as to their Indians from the Wild West ... the life of a simple Afghan, Syrian, Iraqi, African is worthless for the American military.

[Cowbra]

This, too, but my opinion does not cancel. Pilot McCain nearly drowned his own aircraft carrier. Then his feat was repeated on another aircraft carrier ... Or such a case: https://afirsov.livejournal.com/450812.html
I won’t be surprised if they really have helms there - analogues of Klitschko that they cannot distinguish a tractor from a tank.
There is also such a case that the greatest number of deaths among ground personnel of the US Air Force was caused ... By a blow to the roof of the hangar. He climbed into the cockpit, ran up whatever hit the catapult and fired. All for a beautiful photo

[Fantazer911]

And the Europeans too, exceptional rulers of slaves or trash!

[Tired]

If you are talking about the level of detail in the image when the pilot can see the target with his own eyes, then with such detail the machine simply uses a list of invalid targets. If this is the result of the operation of the instruments (the distance is too great for visual detection), then the pilot and the machine will also act in about the same way. In fact, the cases when civilian objects suffered during the infliction of pinpoint strikes were often caused precisely by the wrong interpretation of the instrument readings or their lack of accuracy. The only difference between a person and a machine is the ability to refuse to strike for personal reasons. But this is a "double-edged sword" - that is, the goal can be quite conventional despite the inventions of a person.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

for example, you need to strike at a column of people and this column suddenly turns out to be a wedding procession

Some wedding columns are not shy about firing machine guns, and this is not about Afghanistan now.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Some wedding columns are not shy about firing machine guns, and this is not about Afghanistan now.

What about this?

Why now to iron them with drones? But the piece of iron without a person will decide ...

And yes. To pacify such "shooting weddings" we have quite a manned machine with flashing beacons and "pilots" in caps. It is only important that these "pilots" do not experience temporary loss of vision when they are offered a six-month salary for blindness and deafness right here and now (in reality, there was a video, there were witnesses, weapons were "not found", Kazbeks were not guilty).

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zoldat_A

Why now to iron them with drones?

Am I calling for this? And here I completely join you stated below.

Quote: Zoldat_A

It is only important that these "pilots" do not experience temporary loss of vision.

[Cossack 471]

I would solve this problem quickly. cheap and angry: from the drone, the arrow filled a bucket of feces and let him launder. while the wedding is celebrating

[gurzuf]

There always is and will be, so it seems to me, the danger of intercepting the control of the drone by strangers.

[voyaka uh]

It will be so soon. The next generation of fighters will be
with option: manned / non-manned. And then fighter drones.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Tired

Isn't it more logical to throw all your strength on drones

as soon as the UAVs learn to think like a person, when they have at least a semblance of human feelings, then they will replace manned aircraft. And so - alas for many military and engineers, but you have to spend a lot of effort to maintain the life and adequacy of such a fragile "apparatus" as a person on board an aircraft

[kit88]

If the machine starts to "think", then humanity will have a new enemy. And in this confrontation, I would not dare to bet on a person.

[Grigory_45]

whom would you direct to fulfill the assignment: smart and smart, or just able to walk, writing to him on a piece of paper, what should he do? And who, faced with conditions that are not spelled out on a piece of paper (for example, seeing a dog in front of him), simply falls into a stupor?
Exaggerated, of course, but somehow ...

Quote: kit88

If the machine starts to "think", then humanity will have a new enemy.

let's leave this problem to politicians and cybernetics. In theory, AI should be an analogue of the human mind, and succumb to "education" Like two twins, placing them in different conditions, you can create both a benefactor and a maniac.

[krillon]

Fortunately, humanity has not matured to artificial intelligence. And in case of serious turmoil, satellites will be a priority target, so drones are good in local wars. So it turns out that the role of a person is irreplaceable. You can, of course, fantasize that there will ever be devices based on new physical principles, like "UFO plates" having the ability to accelerate and change the direction of flight. Who knows .. TV used to be fantastic.

[rotmistr60]

Aircraft are being improved, speed, and with them, and overload when performing aerobatics increase. Developers of special anti-overload suits do not stand still. Everything is going as it should be. But what will really be the question next? If we survive, we will see.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: rotmistr60

But what will really be the question next?

There is an interesting, but still hypothetical, measure to reduce at least part of the overload on the pilot: placing the pilot as close as possible to the tail section of the aircraft. With the development of "technical vision" this becomes quite feasible.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

There is an interesting, but still hypothetical, measure to reduce at least part of the pilot overloads: placing the pilot as close as possible to the tail of the aircraft

and how it can work, do not explain?
Vertical overload (head-pelvis), lateral and longitudinal (chest-back) act on the pilot. And the latter is the easiest to carry, and the most fig is the first. So the pilot, in order to reduce the negative impact of overload on him, should not be imprisoned, but put down. What they tried to do on several experimental aircraft samples.

Having transplanted the pilot in the tail without changing his position, what will you achieve ???

[Vladimir_2U]

All that you wrote above is true for established maneuvers, a conditional loop, a U-turn.

Quote: Gregory_45

and how it can work, do not explain?

What I wrote about should reduce overloads with a partial change in the position of the aircraft, without changing the general direction vector, somewhat clumsy, but I will give an analogy: strong pitching on the ship, when the fore and aft ends throw up and down several meters but in the center of the length the ship is calm enough. So that about the tail of LA may not have written correctly, but I think the essence is clear. With over-maneuverability and / or high speeds, such overloads already pose problems.

[illuminat]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

What I wrote about should reduce overloads with a partial change in the position of the aircraft, without changing the general direction vector,

Without changing the velocity vector, not only does the overload not change, so it still does not exceed 1g. So this is from a misunderstanding of what overload is in general, and how it is created.

[Vladimir_2U]

You obviously did not understand what it was about, I will simplify the example. Imagine the cobra Pugachev, how sharply the plane lifts its nose, and with what amplitude, did this do without overload? Moreover, sharp and probably rather big, albeit short-lived. But the cockpit is in the nose, how much this overload on the pilot would decrease, be the cockpit at least in the middle, or better at the tail of the plane. Of course, the overload from braking the aircraft will not go anywhere, but overload can be reduced from such throwing back and forth by the location of the cockpit.

[illuminat]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

You obviously did not understand what it was about, I will simplify the example.

I understood everything, nothing needs to be simplified. What you are talking about is a few percent of the overload experienced by the pilot. Believe me, the difference is small for the pilot, carry 8,5 or 8,7g. And at overloads of less than 4-5 units, there is little sense in reducing them. But here are the layout problems (from the placement of the crew in the area of ​​the nozzle part of the engine) will mom not worry. In short, a sheepskin is not worth the cost for a highly maneuverable aircraft.

PySy. In general, many greatly overestimate the severity of transferring overloads. For a young healthy (and especially trained) organism, 5-6 units are tolerated without big problems. Colleagues will not let you lie, in the lieutenant years it happened that, unfastening after a flight for aerobatics, you find out that the control panel forgot to connect. And in flight he pulled a five, and did not notice that he did not snort.

In the early 80s, several groups were specially prepared to work at reload 9, since the Su-27 and MiG-29 allow for a long time to support the nine on the maneuver. There were difficulties, but the training basically succumbed.

[Vladimir_2U]

Perhaps, although I doubt directly about "a few percent", but by the way, I wrote about "reducing some of the overloads." Not for the sake of dispute, but I search the internet on this topic.

[Vladimir_2U]

Here, I found an approximate level:

When the cockpit rotates relative to the center of mass at high pitch angular velocities, an overload occurs in the chest - back direction, which causes the pilot to “nod” in the direction of the dashboard and reaches a value of 2–2,5 g. This overload can also limit the speed range when performing a maneuver.

https://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/14891/
So there is a problem, albeit not a critical one, and the location of the cab is one of the solutions to this problem, albeit a very costly one. )))

[illuminat]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

So there is a problem, albeit not a critical one, and the location of the cab is one of the solutions to this problem, albeit a very costly one. )))

You yourself answered your own question. Solving a non-critical problem by exacerbating critical ones is a dead end. As I said - sheepskin dressing. Consensus

[NN52]

Gregory_45 (Gregory)

The most "fig" overload is negative ... (in the "head"), believe me ... and look at the permissible values, be surprised ...
In simple terms, this is when you hang on "belts" ..

[Grigory_45]

Quote: NN52

The most "shitty" overload is negative ... (in the "head")

I know that. As you know, this is the vertical component of the overload. In order not to upload a comment, I did not paint in detail

[Angelo Provolone]

In a real combat situation, the average pilot is unlikely to lay the Cobra. Moreover, the aerial battle is a group action, clearly scheduled on the points.
I have an airfield near my house. I see everything from time to time, but there is nothing original. A loop with a half-barrel is standard. It's even boring to watch. Only the rumble is standing

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Angelo Provolone

In a real combat situation, the average pilot is unlikely to lay the Cobra.

In the army, flyers said that in ancient times, when the colonels were lieutenants, when the MiG-21 was the newest, they argued at the airfield that one on the MiG-15 would flee from a MiG-21 pair in a training battle.
Take off, climbed. The MiG-15 reduced speed to a minimum that the 21st were not capable of and went into the clouds. 21st just flew by.

As far as I understand in aviation (and I understand almost nothing - not my specialty) "Cobra" is sharpened for about the same. So, in my opinion, the figure is not even for "show", but for real use.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zoldat_A

In the army, flyers said that in ancient times, when the colonels were lieutenants, when the MiG-21 was the newest, they argued at the airfield that one on the MiG-15 would flee from a MiG-21 pair in a training battle.
Take off, climbed. The MiG-15 reduced speed to a minimum that the 21st were not capable of and went into the clouds. 21st just flew by.

As far as I understand in aviation (and I understand almost nothing - not my specialty) "Cobra" is sharpened for about the same.

in those days there were no homing missiles and highly advanced radars. Now such an acrobat will fail even before he finishes the maneuver. Yes, he will also help the enemy missile quickly catch up with his plane, kindly slowing it down and, moreover, depriving him of the possibility of maneuver.

Quote: Zoldat_A

So, in my opinion, the figure is not even for "show", but for real use.

only no one knows for what.

Well, as correctly noted, air combat is a group battle. And not a one-on-one knightly duel in the allowed zone

[Insurgent]

Quote: Angelo Provolone

there is nothing original. A loop with a half-barrel is standard. It's even boring to watch. Only the rumble is standing

[rruvim]

This doesn't work in modern warfare. Super-maneuverability is good, but no longer relevant. Now is the 21st century. Objective: to detect the enemy aircraft earlier, fire a shot, preferably at a distance of at least 50 km. and fuck off. "Dump" is an overload, because the side must be perpendicular to the enemy Doppler radar. With the F-22 and F-16 (D-series) it will not work in any case, they have AFARs, but it will do with Flu or Tornadoes. The question is: how to detect an aircraft of a potential enemy? If we take the SU-30, then it is problematic, when catching up the BARS "sees" the target only less than 60 km (without stealth technologies). Targeting from ground-based radars using voice only. Only missiles with an active seeker remain, but not with IR, but with radar guidance. We have such, for example R-77, but it locks onto the target on its own only 15 km away. from her. Those. before that it must be directed, i.e. do not make any super-maneuvers, be in the "sight". At the same time, the adversary has AIM-120 (latest modifications) with a flight range of up to 180 km. and target acquisition 18 km. For explosive missiles, no overloads are terrible. At the moment, the likely enemy has a "long arm", which was confirmed by the Turks when they shot down a SAA helicopter without entering Syrian airspace.

[Insurgent]

Quote: rruvim

In modern warfare, this does not work.

You think so ?
At one time, the "missile concept of air combat" also prevailed in the USSR, so much so that a gun was not installed on individual modifications of the MiG-21.
But Vietnam put everything in its place ...

Take your time and you, shift everything to "smart and long-range missiles."

And in modern air combat, there is a place for a "dog dump"

[rruvim]

Well, all modern history suggests otherwise. "There have been no dog dumps in forty years." Since 1982 in the Bekaa Valley, the Falklands Conflict, all the Iraqi Wars, Serbia and Georgia's forcing Peace. Even the last time the Air Forces of India and Pakistan did not come close to each other within the range of a cannon shot. Shot down each other on the plane with missiles at a distance of ten kilometers.

[svoit]

Quote: Insurgent

And in modern air combat, there is a place for a "dog dump"

And let's outline the conditions under which this is possible.
1 Lack of AWACS and its radar
2 Missing missiles
3 Inability to leave the battle
4 ... Add it yourself
For me, it’s a rather rare combination of circumstances.

[Insurgent]

Quote: svoit

rather rare combination of circumstances

For the "very, very beginning", yes, everything is working, spinning ... the BK shaft, the radar has not yet been suppressed ...

But as soon as the stability of the system is violated, other criteria begin to work ...

[rruvim]

This is if the war is global or world. One air nuclear explosion will disrupt 80% of the electronics, no matter how protected and surrounded by Faraday nets, then a "dog dump" is possible. And in local wars, aircraft do not come closer to each other than the actions of their explosives missiles and airborne radars. Example: IDF, which "works" on ground targets in Syria from Lebanese territory.

[Insurgent]

Quote: rruvim

This is if the war will be global or global.

Who said that it will not be global, global?

Amid growing contradictions, global crises and pandemics?

[rruvim]

The international secret government will not allow this. There are other levers. But the new Yalta will be!

[Insurgent]

Quote: rruvim

The international secret government will not allow this.

"Ameryka s us!" ? I'm somewhere, something like that is already bachYv, CHU chu ...

Quote: rruvim

new Yalta will be!

Yalta, there is no war without war ... A terrifying war, such that Uhhh!, I’ve taken the hell out of the results ...

[rruvim]

And the "coronavirus" with the collapse of oil prices and the devaluation of the ruble? What is not war? Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, a curfew will be imposed, then we'll see - war or not ...

[Insurgent]

Quote: rruvim

tomorrow, the day after tomorrow they will impose a curfew, then we'll see - war or not ...

Curfew ? Eka is unseen ... For six years now we have been living in a state of war with a curfew ...

[rruvim]

Well, you have a war with shelling every day, without aviation, of course, but for Muscovites it will be a curiosity. Although patrols are already on the street today, they are grabbing loungers.

[Insurgent]

Quote: rruvim

for Muscovites will be a curiosity. Although patrols are already on the street today, they are grabbing loungers.

Matter of habit.
At the colleague, somehow the wife was late with the employee's DR, well, and her police took her, almost at the door of the entrance.
Nothing helped, neither the husband was fighting, nor the registration ...
I sat in the "monkey house" in the department until morning ...

But now - "miss punctuality"

[Fikys]

Quote: rruvim

Already today patrols on the street, lounging idly by.

And what are the legal grounds for this ?! As far as I know, there are none, so I think you are fantasizing;)

[rruvim]

There are no legal ones. Martial law was not introduced. But the police take people on the boardwalk, check documents and measure the temperature. Already two people "shared" their experience with me. And the day before yesterday, two masked men came to me with a police certificate, asked about my mother (she has been in Abkhazia for three years already), but she is registered in the apartment. And yesterday there were two more: a lady and a starley in uniform, they asked again. I say: "But your colleagues were there yesterday, I gave evidence. Maybe she did something in fraternal Abkhazia?" They answer: "She crossed the border ..." Of course, she did, she gets a pension in Adler ...

[Fikys]

Quote: rruvim

she receives a pension in Adler ...

And my mom is transferred to the card

Quote: rruvim

No legal. Martial law was not imposed.

Exactly. Even there is no quarantine mode, which personally leads me to certain considerations that are not too popular on this site For example, that the current "self-restraint" is a response to a public demand, and not an epidemiological necessity. In other words, the devil is not as scary as his baby

[rruvim]

To the card of the Security Council of the Russian Federation. Try to withdraw money from her in Gudauta. You can pay ...

For example, that the current "self-restraint" is an answer to a public demand, and not an epidemiological necessity.

Of course! Early spring, cottage, hunting and fishing. Everything to prepare the mood for amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation. For some, it’s time to pray, still fasting.

[Fikys]

Quote: rruvim

To the card of the Security Council of the Russian Federation. Try to withdraw money from her in Gudauta.

I don’t know in Gudauta, but in China - no problem. In our area (Primorye), China is more relevant.

[rruvim]

China is always relevant! Just before your eyes: and comp, and mouse and keyboard

[Fikys]

Quote: rruvim

The international secret government will not allow this.

There is always a place (feat) of chance in life, so I wouldn’t promise ...

[rruvim]

Already seventy years they have predicted whose nuclear charge will explode first, by chance. But for some reason it exploded in Chernobyl and not by chance.

[Fikys]

I'm a little about that. Almost everyone knows about the Caribbean crisis, but not many people know about the cap of the Amer’s boat cap. But then pure accident saved the USSR from a nuclear strike, and the whole world from WWII.

[rruvim]

The Syrians several times lifted into the air their few 29th, and each time did not have time. The Israelites went to their airfields under the protection of their air defense.

[aesculapius]

In fact, the best defense is attack. You just had to bomb the Israeli airfield ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Insurgent

You think so ?
At one time, the "missile concept of air combat" also prevailed in the USSR, so much so that a gun was not installed on individual modifications of the MiG-21.
But Vietnam put everything in its place ...

Take your time and you, shift everything to "smart and long-range missiles."

firstly, nobody takes off a gun. Because:
a) do not deny the very possibility of close maneuverable air combat
b) using a gun to intercept transporters and similar boards
c) shelling a ground target

But the gun ceased to be the main weapon of the fighter. Now his weapon - medium-range and short-range missile defense. And for missile combat, over-maneuverability is not needed - adequate to modern maneuverability requirements

[illuminat]

Quote: Gregory_45

firstly, nobody takes off a gun. Because:
a) do not deny the very possibility of close maneuverable air combat
b) using a gun to intercept transporters and similar boards
c) shelling a ground target

But the gun ceased to be the main weapon of the fighter. Now his weapon - medium-range and short-range missile defense. And for missile combat, over-maneuverability is not needed - adequate to modern maneuverability requirements

PPKS. In general, Grigory_45, you have extremely competent and balanced comments on this thread. Are you related to aviation?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: illuminat

Are you related to aviation?

just like an amateur. And so - we are land ...

[illuminat]

Taking off my hat. For a land explorer, such an understanding is very rare.

[Same lech]

I love air fights ... they shot down like ... a couple.

[Vasyan1971]

Only a handful of pilots are able to withstand such stress and maintain control of their jet aircraft during air combat.

If there is a war, will a "handful of pilots" fight?

[nPuBaTuP]

This handful will be called ASY

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: nPuBaTuP

This handful will be called ASY

Yes please! Aces do not win the war. An example is the fascist Luftwaffe.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Aces do not win the war. An example is the fascist Luftwaffe.

And the jet era.

[Vasyan1971]

War is won not by a handful of dashing heroes and not a horde with cuttings from shovels. Wars are won by normal hard working hard professionals. On a good quality technique.

[iouris]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Aces do not win the war.

1) Statistics say that 95% of enemy planes are shot down by 5% of pilots (aces).
2) Regarding the specific psychophysiological ability to endure overload. Almost any organism shuts down at normal overload 5,5 ... 6G ("gray shroud" - "black shroud"). An overload overload above these values ​​is possible, but only for a short time (fractions of a second) during intensive combat maneuvering. It is important here that the design of the aircraft withstands such "casts" and is designed for a long life (life cycle).
3) "Luftwaffe" (German) = "Air Force" (Russian), therefore "fascist"
4) not "fascist", but "Nazi" (check, at least according to Duropedia - there is a difference).

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: iouris

1) Statistics say that 95% of enemy planes are shot down by 5% of pilots (aces).

https://topwar.ru/18452-asy-lyuftvaffe-fenomen-slishkom-bolshih-schetov.html
Be, say, Stakhanov three times the Hero of Labor, but a team of strong middle peasants who worked together will make him. The analogy is also suitable for military operations. Lone heroes only win in Hollywood. Of course, undoubtedly, they are needed, but - "Order beats the class." So it was, is and will be.
A small historical illustration on the topic: https://a-sharkov.livejournal.com/395450.html

Quote: iouris

4) not "fascist", but "Nazi" (check, at least according to Duropedia - there is a difference).

Yes Yes Yes! Could not be smart. The legacy of socialist military-patriotic education. No need to check. I know. But I can’t help myself. Sew in the subcortex.

[iouris]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Single heroes win only in Hollywood.

Do you watch football (hockey)? The team with the coach wins, and not everyone scores goals. You can divide the total number of goals scored by the total number of players in the silence of the cabinet.
In addition, one should take into account those pilots who "went" to non-combat losses.
In any business there are "ases" and "others". Without "the rest" there are no "aces".

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: iouris

In any business there are "ases" and "others". Without "the rest" there are no "aces".

And who argues with this?

Quote: Vasyan1971

Wars are won by normal hard working hard professionals. On a good quality technique.

Quote: Vasyan1971

"Order beats class"

Ases, in any case, are necessary at least to motivate the rest. A nice addition to the overall picture. But the main thing is the teamwork of simple middle peasants.

Quote: iouris

Do you watch football (hockey)?

War is not a sport. Do not confuse warm with soft. It’s not about medals and the place in the overall standings.
Let me remind you: it was about

Only a handful of pilots are able to withstand such stress and maintain control of their jet aircraft during air combat.

A handful of pilots (aces) can win the battle, seize the initiative or something else local. But ordinary soldiers will win the war. On a good quality, inexpensive mass media.

[iouris]

Quote: Vasyan1971

ordinary soldiers will win the war

Are you an expert in what area?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: iouris

Are you an expert in what area?

And you?

[illuminat]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Quote: iouris

Are you an expert in what area?

And you?

I join the question.
iouris, do you consider yourself an expert in aviation? Your theoretical knowledge is rather weak.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: illuminat

Your theoretical knowledge is rather weak.

And you?
Is it about aviation? The question that the war (and not the battle) will be won by a small group of aces or a mass of just strong, good professionals? What is your theoretical "strong" knowledge on this issue?
And, by the way, the previous interlocutor was not interested in my theoretical knowledge in the field of aviation. He was interested in: in WHATareas I am an expert. In what area is he an expert himself, while modestly keeping silent.
And in general - what are we talking about? Wanted to troll?

[illuminat]

Quote: Vasyan1971

And in general - what are we talking about? Wanted to troll?

the question was to iouris, on the contrary, I put you pluses.

[Vasyan1971]

Yeah? Miles sorry !!!
Something nervous became ....

[rruvim]

Yes, the Nazis were in Italy. Well, for some reason, everyone stubbornly called the Germans the Nazi Nazis Nazis.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: rruvim

Yes, the Nazis were in Italy. Well, for some reason, everyone stubbornly called the Germans the Nazi Nazis Nazis.

I have been taught this since childhood. Retrain late and useless. There, on the next branch, they said that the Ukrainians who returned from Thailand broke through the quarantine cordon shouting: "Fascists!" I doubt what the Italians meant.
Therefore, I think that in this case it makes no sense to be boring and clever.

[Insurgent]

Quote: nPuBaTuP

This handful will be called ASY

A handful of ?
List of Soviet aces of the Great Patriotic War, scored 20 or more personal victories

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/С

The list is hardly complete, but if you add here the list of pilots with 10 or 5 victories?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: nPuBaTuP

This handful will be called ASY

the flyer is called an ace that landed at least five aliens (is it rather strange to call pilots who did not participate in the database in the literal sense of this word?)
Moreover, as history shows us, they do not win wars

[Aviator_]

As Kvochur explained, he tried out one of the latest Russian developments, which “really helped” when he reached an overload level of 11,5 g.

I have great respect for Kvochur, somehow I even had to communicate with him personally, only the author of the text is confusing something. Anatoly Nikolayevich, who is already 67 years old, has not been in flight for a long time, and "one of the latest developments" that allowed him to test 11,5g on himself was made more than 20 years ago, when he was still flying ..

[Alexy]

I recalled the comments of some readers about how easy and simple it is to sit in a comfortable chair. Almost a business class passenger

[gridasov]

Issues of ensuring human viability in conditions that are extreme for its existence have been studied for a long time. The most reliable tests of psycho-physical capabilities belong, obviously, to the Germans of the Second World War. Therefore, obviously changing this psychophysics means creating a new person. However, it is much easier to create a shell, ensuring its viability. Moreover, the shell of those substances and with the same properties that provide the entire space of human existence. More specifically, I’m talking about the elastic properties of liquids and air. Compensation of transcendental centrifugal or centripetal forces, magneto-dynamic forces from accelerations and braking, as well as a set of other processes are provided precisely by dynamic flows of elastic or an individual aggregate state of liquids and gases, and not by static conditions with a set pressure and temperature, etc.

[sanik2020]

Isn’t it more logical to throw all the forces on drones, whose performance characteristics can easily go beyond the limits of a load acceptable for a person? The pilot of a modern combat vehicle is already forced to rely more on instrument readings than on his own eyes.

But there are drones, though not fighters controlled by an operator sitting at the console for thousands of kilometers, only for maneuverable combat, you need an internal sense of spatial position and simple intuition, and the machine, so far, is a commonplace calculator.
So you have to wait.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: sanik2020

и Easy intuition

intuition is an unconsciously generalized experience And as a rule, they don’t just give it to anyone

[Nuclear_winter]

I noticed in the video voids in the material of the lantern. Is this normal practice, or are experiments still going on?

[rruvim]

A completely glass (non-binding) lamp can not yet be made. No technology. The voids are probably due to bulletproof glass, it is also shot before ejection, cast in layers.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: The same Lech

It’s a beautiful airplane and flies beautifully ... let's hope that it will also be beautiful to fight.
As for the overloads for the pilots, until we learn how to control gravity, we’ll have to put up with it ... the next generation of fighters seems to be controlled in unmanned mode or paired with a leading pilot ... otherwise their combat capabilities will not be raised.

Agree on the beauty of war .....
It could have been done by a man with frostbitten brains and disfigured films like Saving Private Ryan. A generation has grown up that does not know how beautiful war is. It is both good that our old people were able to do something to make it grow, and it is bad that behind this madness lies an endless misunderstanding.

[Maks1995]

Beautiful, but somehow slow.

But at such a speed of maneuver, is it really possible to get away from an enemy rocket or fighter?
On rollers from the SU, F air show, mirages spin and spin faster than 3 times.

[sharp-lad]

11.5 g. Well this is at the terminator level! Most people lose consciousness at 5 g.!

[iouris]

The author does not fully understand the subject about which the text is composed. The purpose of the publication is not clear.
Readers write each about something of their own.
It should be noted that when "flying on the verge of stopping" the pilot is more likely to be in zero gravity, or experiences negative overloads.
It is impossible to consider operational overload as the main criterion for combat effectiveness. All current trends indicate that the enemy should be hit at long ranges (hundreds of kilometers).
Notes:
1) a criterion is a critically important indicator, based on the results of the analysis of which, responsible decisions are made;
2) the criteria compete with each other, i.e. improving one leads to a deterioration of the other.

[lvov_aleksey]

Have you ever braked on the floor, got weightlessness? or did your nose break?

[illuminat]

It should be noted that when "flying on the verge of stopping" the pilot is more likely to be in zero gravity, or experiences negative overloads.

On the contrary, very significant positive ones. Precisely because when performing "cobra" and "chakra" the angular position of the plane changes, and braking and overloading occur.

It is impossible to consider operational overload as the main criterion for combat effectiveness.

On the contrary, it is precisely the overloads that an airplane (and a pilot) can provide are one of the main criteria for the effectiveness of a fighter. Therefore, all such aircraft are highly maneuverable and multi-mode.

[radiola_]

"special aviation suits", apparently the High Altitude Compensating Suit (VKK).

[illuminat]

Quote: radiola_

"special aviation suits", apparently the High Altitude Compensating Suit (VKK).

I meant PPC (anti-boot), but it also exists in the VKK.

[TANKISTONE]

I wish you all good health! There have already been articles on VO that super-maneuverability and "invisibility" are not a panacea for victory for modern air combat, but rather a show for advertising (sale).

[Nasty]

For example, the famous “Cobra Pugachev” technique allows the crews of Su-27 fighters to beat the enemy pursuing them and exchange roles with him. Another maneuver, called the “Kvochura Bell”, is used by pilots to deceive enemy radars and air-to-air guided missiles, as well as to quickly reduce speed before hitting ground targets.

- Oh my god, what a stupidity!

[lvov_aleksey]

bullshit your movie! this one will be cooler: https://rg.ru/2019/08/25/reg-cfo/zapredelnyj-pilotazh-su-57-pokazali-na-video.html

[ilik54]

Airplanes of the future will have the ability to take off and land vertically using a screen effect. And they will fly in a cloud of plasma, so that streamlined aerodynamic forms will be unnecessary to them. Such aircraft will have a wide range of movement, from near space, to flights at the level of house roofs.
Hanging on the spot and turning will be their hallmark in the storming of any objects, together with acceleration to hypersonic speeds in the plasma cloud from the spot.
Interestingly, in horizontal flight they will be able to change altitude almost vertically, without a gentle descent and ascent.
This will allow a new wing design, which will have a completely different flight control concept. So, in particular, the nozzles of the plasma generator will stand on it in front and behind, which will allow them to rise and fall vertically, without shifting horizontally.

[ilik54]

In the wing there are detonation engines that are located horizontally, and not, like in the nozzle of a standard engine in a circle, these detonation engines will create traction for the lifting force of the wing of the aircraft. The ekranoplanes have the same system, only there are separate engines in front of the ekranoplan.
This is how the circuit diagram of the wing of such an airplane looks like, see the diagram -

[Robert Korsunsky]

All this, of course, is good, it is also desirable to put a radar and an engine there more powerful, and install an artificial intelligence system there to insure the pilot in case of a "blackout".