Inviolability of borders in Eastern Europe


Yesterday the borders in Europe were different, and the day before yesterday too



The human age is short in historical by standards, therefore, people get used to so many things around them so much that it seems to them that it has always been so. “And only the old people remembered that the border of the glacier used to be much higher.” Just like life, human consciousness is limited. Many overly complicated things remain beyond the understanding of the common man. Both that, and another, certainly, a gift of gods.

But seriously, the map, for example, of Europe for the 1914th could seriously surprise the student back in the 80s of the 20th century. Everything is wrong there. Although it seems quite recently and although it seems to be the same Europe (civilized). No, France is in place, just like England and Spain, but the farther east, the more changes. Already looking at the map of the last year before the Great War, it becomes clear that the world then changed very much. And just as the consequences of glacier passing leave traces on the landscape, the consequences of such political changes leave traces on the political map.

World War II also changed the map of Europe, although not as much as the first. “The inviolability of borders” is a good thing, but unattainable. After the collapse of the USSR, Czechoslovakia collapsed and Yugoslavia was smashed to smithereens. Then, from Serbia, they “bit off” Kosovo. That is, the boundaries are quite changing for themselves.

The borders in Eastern Europe that we are fortunate to see often arose after 1945. That is, in fact - a “remake”. And there was still the victorious Soviet Union, and Comrade Stalin, with an unshakable hand, drew some lines there. But there is no longer the Soviet Union and, of course, no comrade. Stalin. But the borders seem to have remained. Question: for how long?

Once again: global political changes inevitably entail a change in borders. It's unavoidable. That is, for example, the borders of modern Poland (both in the west and in the east) were designated precisely in the victorious 45th. Of course, in the days of Poland and the USSR, casting doubt on them was like death. But the Germans (and one third of modern Poland is just on the former German lands) did not like this new border at all. And by the way, yes: it was not conducted by certain allies, but clearly and specifically by JV Stalin.

And this today creates serious problems in German-Polish relations. So to speak, everything is not so simple. For some reason, I recall how the Spartan king was told that King Philip gave this land to the Messenians. “Did he give them the power to protect her?” - asked the Spartan in response.

You can talk for a long time about a united Europe and NATO, but, as many have already noticed, in the decades following the collapse of the USSR, much has changed there. In no case do not want to play the role of Nostradamus, but the inviolability of the western Polish border is a very interesting question. What will be there and how will it be ... But the hell knows. But the USSR is no longer there, like the Warsaw Pact, and even when they were, the FRG was somehow in no hurry to recognize the “new borders”, and finally the “post-war settlement” took place in Europe even after the suppression of the “Prague Spring”! And before that there were questions.

The "indestructible" borders of Poland


So not everything is so simple. The main thing is the thread of reasoning: Russia today (for obvious reasons!) Owes Poland nothing. Will there be objections? And when the monuments to Soviet soldiers in the former NDP are demolished, the author personally does not even feel sad, but funny. The Poles are actively chopping the branch on which their current territorial integrity is based. If Stalin is a criminal, and the Red Army is an invader and an occupier, then ... then there will be interesting legal consequences. Just while the Poles are not even aware of this.

And they don’t have anyone to guess about. Politicians, of course, are, but very unsuspecting. Four sections of Poland clearly demonstrate this. That is, before taking any serious political steps, it is advisable to think carefully. Consult with knowledgeable people. Otherwise, it may turn out badly. If the Poles were dear to their western border (already drawn along German territory), they would regularly paint and update all the monuments to Soviet soldiers-liberators and invite veterans from Russia there and would congratulate and thank them. Explain why?

But why none doesn't want to see obvious things? Morality? What does morality have to do with it? What is the moral? Pure selfish calculation! Well, is there really no literate people in Poland and there is no one to tell Polish politicians that they need to glorify the Red Army and personally Comrade. Stalin? That's right, and nothing else. The western Polish border is the result of the “creativity” of the Red Army and Joseph Stalin. Imagine that a very unloved relative of yours bequeathed to you personally a spacious apartment in the center of the hero city of Moscow. But at the same time you have to get a haircut in Buddhists or join the LDPR. So what will be your decision?

That's right: refuse and keep your convictions! And to give the apartment to the state, it is more necessary for him. At one time, Sherlock Holmes was genuinely amazed at Watson's inability to build the simplest logical chain.

-?!
- Elementary Watson!

Lavrov is about the same astonishment lead some of his foreign colleagues. Rather, "the course of their reasoning." I will not quote.

You must admit that the demolition of monuments to Soviet soldiers has both a political and a legal dimension. The cadastral also has, if that. Why this none does not see? Are they all blind? They can’t add two and two? If the Soviet soldiers-liberators were not heroes and liberators, then who were they? And what did they do in Europe? And what do the Poles do in the ancient Hanseatic city of Danzig? And in the "last fortress of the Third Reich" - Breslau? How many questions arise, right?

It is clear that the average person is very difficult to calculate all the consequences of their steps. But what, the Polish state is also headed by "ordinary people"? Or how? Western allies at one time were forced to recognize the "new borders of Poland along the Oder-Neisse." But this was by no means their idea. With the disappearance of the USSR from the political arena, the border “hung” slightly. No, of course, Poland today is a close ally of the United States and all that, but it’s very difficult to predict what will happen next.

And for Russia to “guarantee” something in any plan to a country that occupies an extremely Russophobic position is rather strange. Why, sorry? Meaning? With the departure of the USSR, a political vacuum arose in Eastern Europe, but few understood this. Ukraine (formerly USSR) is an archetypal example. So far advanced western borders of this country are explained by the historical presence of the Republic of Ingushetia / USSR in “these places”. The last one there to “light” again was Joseph Stalin.

Who "painted" Ukraine?


For some reason, Eastern European politicians cannot / do not want to understand elementary things. The border is not as simple and cool as it seems. The very “borders of independent Ukraine” were carried out by Russian tsars and Soviet general secretaries; at the moment, “civilized Europe” did not give Ukraine a single square kilometer of territory. Something like that. No matter how the "Ukrainian state" itself arose and won no wars, and did not grow any territory.

Ukraine tried to combine the incompatible: completely abandon the historical heritage of the Ukrainian SSR and at the same time preserve its territory. As we see, it is no longer possible. Once again: all the talk about “bad Russia” and “good Europe” is limited to millions of square kilometers donated by “bad Russia” and zero square kilometers donated by “good Europe”. That is, the problem is much deeper than many people think.

The rejection of the Soviet legacy calls into question all the borders of the former. Ukrainian SSR, and first of all - Western. For Ukraine, it all started much earlier than in 2014. Even when the question arose about gas (!) Fields near Zmein Island. Which the European court gave European Romania. For some reason, it was not customary to raise this topic in Ukraine. Europe is good, Russia is bad. Well, if so, then “good Europe” could “compensate” Ukraine for the loss of Crimea. Why not?

Today, Poland, Hungary and Romania look with interest at their “former” territories as part of a weakening and impoverished Ukraine. Again, by no means am I going to play the role of Nostradamus, but the territorial future of Ukraine is under a very big question. At one time, Britain for a very long time "defended" Turkey from Russia, but after 1918, she let it go under the knife. That is, Russia just fought infinitely long with the Turks, who were finished off by their British friends. But who remembers this?

In any case, the western borders of Ukraine are a very, very controversial thing (if there is no powerful army and powerful state behind them). The western borders of the Ukrainian state are just the legacy of a great empire that has left it. The chances of "holding" them are very, very weak, about the same as in the British after the departure of the Roman legions. It’s just that this does not suddenly and immediately become apparent.

Ukraine today has neither a modern army, nor independence, nor an economy. Nothing at all. And a huge piece of land in the center of Europe. And the land is "no longer done." To preserve its industry, Ukraine had to maintain very good relations with Russia. No other way. It is obvious. Much less obvious is the fact that, in order to maintain its territorial integrity, Ukraine had to do the same.

At least several decades after the collapse of the USSR, this was absolutely inevitable. In order to avoid questions, Ukraine simply was obliged to focus on Moscow. And a very long time. Damn it, with the economy, but saving so vast territory (by European standards!) required external power support. As you know, Ukraine decisively took an anti-Russian position. After the return of Crimea, Russia officially declared that the territorial integrity of Ukraine is a problem of Ukraine alone.

It was impossible for Ukraine to quarrel with Russia, it is impossible, because, let’s say, issues of ownership of real estate are not always resolved “here and now”. Sometimes very old documents play a role. In Northern Italy - sometimes the 12th (!) Century! And Russia is not obligated to make a discount on the fact that today Ukraine simply does not have a normal diplomatic service. The anti-Russian position of Kiev removes from it all and all sorts of moral obligations. For obvious reasons, Russia is not obliged today to build its policy so that official Kiev has everything "good and healthy."

The trouble with Kiev is precisely that the western borders of their country were determined not from Kiev, but from Moscow. And the system of contracts (confirming these boundaries) was also drawn up in Moscow (but not in Kiev). And just Russia (as the heiress of the USSR, for example) has the full moral right, so to speak, to slightly change its attitude towards them. Ukrainians, in their great naivety, sincerely believe that it is enough to massively dance hopak in the city center - and that’s all, this is Ukraine, but not so simple. For some reason, people there are sincerely convinced that since the formation of independent Ukraine, this completely automatically privatized a piece of Russian territory and history for hundreds of years into the past. But everything is a bit more complicated.

A certain analogy to this: some weapons were produced in Ukraine, and patent documentation was stored in Moscow, which even before all the "Maidan" created a lot of problems. The problem of all Ukraine is precisely that the “patent documentation” for it is in many ways located in Moscow. That is, the gap with Russia hit not only in Ukrainian industry, but also in statehood in general.

With the filing of that same Poland, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was officially recognized as criminal in both Lithuania and Ukraine. If you say “A”, then sooner or later you will have to say “B”, and then it will come to other letters of the alphabet. The logic of actions, a single logic. Poland is good, Russia is bad. This was driven into every Ukrainian schoolchild. Well, sooner or later we got to that very pact. According to which Ukraine received the Polish Lviv and not only.

For a very long time all this was concealed by Russia's desire to be friends, no matter what. Now it is invisible to Ukrainians because of the general situation of the collapse of the economy and the war in the Donbass. But the problem seems to have gone nowhere. Today, for Kiev, counting on Russia's military or political support on a dispute with Hungary or Romania would be simply frivolous. Kiev politicians have achieved almost unbelievable: Moscow’s relations with Poland are better than with Ukraine! That is, they generally are.

The demonization of Russia and the glorification of the West is, of course, good. But as a result, Ukraine suffered significant economic and territorial losses. Reaction? Continued demonization of Russia and the glorification of the West. And everything is peddling. I specifically explain (especially to some stubborn compatriots): Ukraine is an independent state, we are not Ukrainians, we owe them nothing by definition, and we are not obliged to maintain any “dialogue” with them. All the problems of Ukraine are only and exclusively the problems of the Ukrainians themselves, but not ours.

Virtual USSR in the Heads


At one time, the author of the iconic work “Marauder” defiantly mocked Russian citizens who were confident in their security against the backdrop of NATO’s eastward expansion (the USSR was dead). About the same can be said about the inhabitants of small, but proud countries of Eastern Europe. It seems to them that their borders are reliably guaranteed by someone. They have such an illusion. I hasten to upset them: the very Soviet Union drew and guaranteed these borders, which, alas, are no more.

Which immediately affected the fate of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. It was the collapse of the USSR that led to the collapse of Czechoslovakia and the SFRY. Then Serbia lost Kosovo. Well, for example, Moldova, as it were, is not against entering Romania. And the flag in their hands, if they want it. Azerbaijan has lost Karabakh and the adjacent lands and has been trying to return them for many years. The GSSR practically collapsed. These are the “interesting” consequences. But one must understand that most of the borders in Eastern Europe were "drawn" one way or another under the influence of the USSR. Which is no more.

Russia is, of course, “a kind of successor,” but practically no country in Eastern Europe wants to focus on it. In general, the borders seemed to “hang in the air”. Russia today owes absolutely nothing to the new NATO members or even simply to the “Euro-oriented” governments of its neighbors.

Many people underestimate this fact. Borders always draw with a sword. This is ultimately the case. Any border is “universally recognized” when a powerful army stands behind it. Otherwise, questions arise. The basis of modern Ukrainian ideology is transcendent Russophobia. The tragic paradox is that the vast Ukrainian territory is the legacy of the “criminal” USSR / RI. The ravings of Ukrainian politicians that everyone around “owes to holy Ukraine” look good only in the Ukrainian information space.

“Return of Crimea to its home harbor” put Russia in a situation where it categorically not interested in “conservation ter. integrity of Ukraine. ” This is disadvantageous because. That is why the Polish-Hungarian (Romanian?) Territorial claims are not so bad when viewed from Moscow. Mutual exchange / recognition is possible because. And Kiev put itself in such a disadvantageous position.

And it’s already impossible to “win back” the situation. Not a single Ukrainian politician will be able to recognize the loss of Crimea, and therefore, will not be able to normalize relations with Russia and receive its political support on the western borders. This means that they are put under a big question mark. Today, the Ukrainian state does not have “good decisions” (but the borders of Poland are a very, very interesting topic, both western and eastern). Both Lemberg and Breslau ... there is something to think about. Moreover, both of them are not Russia's problem today.

And there are Romanian-Hungarian territorial contradictions. There they are, they haven’t gone anywhere. Yes, and the Balkans continue to slowly "smolder." And already the “great Estonia” can not come to terms with the current “unjust” borders with Russia. That is, the USSR is no longer there, and practically no one likes the current borders.

It is difficult to say exactly what this will lead to, but the complete inviolability of borders in the coming decades seems unlikely.

Author:
Photos used:
avatars.mds.yandex.net
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  1. Gene84 30 March 2020 07: 23 New
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    a map, for example, of Europe in 1914 could seriously surprise a student back in the 80s of the 20th century

    Strange, for some reason, the maps of Europe for 1914, being a schoolboy in the 80s, did not surprise me for some reason ...
    1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 08: 00 New
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      Inviolability of borders in Eastern Europe
      At the moment, the borders of “Tse Europe” are experiencing the onslaught of their own migrant workers expelled from the EU ...

      Colonel Cassad
      The mouthpiece of totalitarian propaganda




    2. Ilya-spb 30 March 2020 08: 14 New
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      They used to say: "Poland is the ugly brainchild of the Versailles Accords."

      I won’t be surprised when they say: "Ukraine, Moldova ... etc. - the ugly brainchild of the Bialowieza Accords."
      1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 08: 32 New
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        Quote: Ilya-spb
        I won’t be surprised when they say: "Ukraine, Moldova ... etc. - the ugly brainchild of the Bialowieza Accords."

        Simple people about it long they say. And only "those in power" modestly keep quiet.
      2. siberalt 30 March 2020 08: 46 New
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        The author is right that the boundaries are set by the sword. And in Russia, patience is also not unlimited. Everything flows, everything changes.
        1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 09: 04 New
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          Quote: siberalt
          The author is right that the boundaries are set by the sword.

          A shrewd (at some points) helmsman Mao, expressed that:

          "Every communist must learn the truth that a rifle gives birth to power"
      3. Olgovich 30 March 2020 09: 06 New
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        Quote: Ilya-spb
        I won’t be surprised when they say: "Ukraine, Moldova ... etc. - an ugly brainchild Bialowieza agreements".

        These ugly offspring were born much earlier when in 1918 and 1940 from the lands of RUSSIA blinded these freaks and others, specifically stipulating the right of their EXIT from the USSR.
        So they came out ..

        Therefore, the author is wrong when he writes:
        The borders in Eastern Europe that we are fortunate to see often arose after 1945.

        The borders of Russia that we see today were created mainly in 1918-1940, when 5 million km2 were cut off from it
        The western Polish border is the result of the “creativity” of the Red Army and Joseph Stalin.

        Russia-WHY this "creativity" turned out to be strengthened, it turned out in the end ... its ETERNAL enemy belay
        The rejection of the Soviet heritage calls into question all the borders of the former. USSR

        No FIG was to give her Russian lands, and today there would be no questions AT ALL .....

        It was necessary to think for a long PROSPECT ahead, and not to cajole the nationals (all the same to no purpose)
        1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 09: 43 New
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          It is interesting that it was the inclusion of part of Donbass in the Ukrainian SSR that did not allow Little Russia to finally fall off into farmers, and there is still some opportunity to reformat this territory for itself. Actually, for this, they included it in order to dilute the Selyuk with industrial regions. As for the intra-imperial transfers of the territory, especially for you, the Finnish War is a direct result of the transfer of part of the Russian territories of Finland back in tsarist times. Under the tsar, territories could have been cut in exactly the same way for some reason of their time.
          1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 10: 36 New
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            Quote: EvilLion
            that dilute Selyuk industrial regions

            doesn’t come to the head that people are not water for diluting solutions?
            And NOBODY gave these Russophobic diluents the right to force people to live in dill.
            Quote: EvilLion
            As for intra-imperial gear territory

            USSR -... empire ?! belay hi lol
            Read the Constitution of the USSR and the republics is an alliance of STATES with the RIGHT OF EXIT. So they came out.

            What are you unhappy with? They themselves jammed themselves.
            Quote: EvilLion
            The Finnish War - is a direct result of the transfer of part of the Russian territories of Finland in Tsarist times

            Nope, this is the result of stupid actions. snk - nowhere, by anyone, never working slammerswho decided to make government decisions: proclaimed the independence of Finland, ... without bothering to stipulate in advance the borders, property, the fate of the people there.
            Quote: EvilLion
            something special for you

            poke your wife, yes.
            1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 12: 19 New
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              And now the question is, what in general in 1922 could the Russian Republic offer the former outskirts of the empire so that they agreed to return? As for Finland, which then didn’t even interest Stalin, now in Kiev they may also disagree with the existence of LDNR, and they say how it came about.

              Learn the story, your nonsense is already tired of reading. As for the so-called. lobotryasov, then they won the civil war and bent everyone else. Do you know why? Because they quickly learned and thought practically, unlike any professors of the cadets from the interim government, which, by the way, no one appointed, they declared themselves power, and all the boobies from whites who had one goal, a constituent assembly and still a talking room. Well, even the peasants to turn over the arrogant, for example, Kolchak and made Siberia red.
              1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 12: 54 New
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                Quote: EvilLion
                And now the question is, what in general in 1922-In the year of the Russian Republic could offer the former outskirts of the empire, so that they agreed to return.
                Learn the story, your nonsense is already tired of reading
                ?

                Go to school, you’re an ignoramus, and you won’t carry such Nonsense: in 1922 there was an unhappy small Transcaucasia outside the RSFSR, microscopic Belarus (which outside Russia did not want to be), and the so-called "Ukraine", more than half then RUSSIAN. ALL! All the rest WERE part of Russia, did not demand anything, and were NOT going to leave!

                Got it, no?
                Quote: EvilLion
                As for the so-called. lobotryasov, then they won the civil war and bent everyone else.

                10 million corpses of fellow citizens and the collapse of all is .... a win ?! belay fool lol

                If you read these ignoramuses, you will find out that they were counting on something completely different.
                Quote: EvilLion
                x Do you know why? Because they learned fast and thought practically, unlike any professors of the cadets from the interim government, which, by the way, no one appointed, they themselves declared power, and all the boobies from the whites, who had one goal, constituent assembly and still talking room.


                You know, if you immediately put a blacksmith to work as a surgeon, he will become him, only now will kill for this, several thousand people will also “learn”, just as your “trainees” did, learning from the LIVING people.

                Normal people for this study and work in “talking rooms”, trying to avoid this.
                Quote: EvilLion
                Well, even the peasants to turn over the arrogant, so, for example, Kolchak did Siberia red.
                You have already pulled up your red Siberia.


                Here are the red partisans there, according to the report of the OGPU, 1932:
                Akbulaksky district. “There is no bread, we are starving, and we are forced to build an unrealizable socialism. It’s more like war we, the red partisans, having received rifles, would see who we need to fight with and who we must defend. ”

                Ayrtavsky district. “That's what the Soviet government brought us to. We, collective farmers, eat quinoa and eat all kinds of surrogates. At present, everything is against power. War will begin all the red partisans, as one, will go against the Bolshevik deceivers, because we all learned what the power of the Soviets consists in - robbery and violence».

                Zyryanovsky district. “It’s enough that they once won over their necks; now with hunger and naked we sit. If only the war began, the Bolsheviks will no longer have to leave on our neck. ”

                “We, the red partisans, were deceived into the revolution, promised freedom and so on, and now it’s not being put into practice at all, I would know that it would be like this, I would never begin to defend the power of the Soviets” (former partisan Khomenko, b / p, middle peasant).

                “I, here, am a former partisan, and I’m living poorly, well, to hell with Soviet power, again we need to take rifles and oppose the authorities, tired of already enduring, unbearable it has become ”(former cr [asny] partisan Popov, b / p, middle peasant).

                Khabarovsk district. For non-payment by the wife of the partisan's tax in the amount of 5 rubles. a fine of 190 rubles was imposed on him with the [spruce] council, moreover, to cover the fine with the [spruce] with [the board] the following was seized: a sewing machine, a gun and various household items.

                Tambov district. For the operation of one farm laborer, the farm of the former was sold a Chinese partisan forced to resort to the exploitation of hired force in view of disability (there are no both hands).

                VSC

                Zakamensky district. The chairman of the “Worker” agricultural artel took away the last cow from kr [asyn] partisan Popov for the failure to deliver milk under contract.

                Nizhne-Ingashevsky district. In the village Uspenka was searched in 4 partisans, from whom all bread and cattle were taken. DCK

                A partisan died on a boom (timber rafting) of the X [ingano] -Arkharinsky district in private household plots, for the rest of which the other partisans who worked with him asked the directorate of private household plots to leave planks for the coffin. This request was denied to them, and the corpse of the deceased partisan before preparation for the funeral lay without a coffin and was bitten by rats.


                Got it, no? no
              2. NordUral 30 March 2020 15: 53 New
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                I rarely agree with you, EvilLion, but in this matter - completely in favor!
            2. fk7777777 April 4 2020 23: 55 New
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              With whom? Are you going to talk with the Nazis? Or do you think that? For you the revelation that the Finns and Swedes Natsik, at that time were ,? Went to bow to the second Reich, are you generally adequate?
      4. antivirus 30 March 2020 10: 23 New
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        of the return of Crimea Russia officially stated that the territorial integrity of Ukraine is a problem only and exclusively of Ukraine.
        ALL DECLARATIONS OF GOS-V ARE PREPARED FOR DECADES - DO WE FAVORABLE TO SHARE THE EDGE? WITH WHOM? LUKA ONE SUPPORTS RF?
        territories with an assigned population are more profitable to exploit without new borders
    3. Chaldon48 30 March 2020 09: 11 New
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      The territory of Ukraine is now needed most of all by Russia, therefore Russia is in no hurry to recognize LDNR. Now Ukraine is very similar to a stupid bull who is headlong rushing at the toreodor.
      1. Kronos 30 March 2020 11: 52 New
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        Now they will pass a law on the sale of land in Ukraine and they will sell everything to Europe and the USA. And all the tales about all of Ukraine will end
        1. Chaldon48 31 March 2020 08: 16 New
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          In the south-east of Ukraine are already planning the creation of New Israel
          1. Octopus 31 March 2020 13: 46 New
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            Quote: Chaldon48
            In the south-east of Ukraine are already planning the creation of New Israel

            Sorry. I have a few questions:
            1.What is planned?
            2. And what to do with old Israel?
            3. Will the Temple Mount be moved or a new one poured?
            4. The population of the DNI / LC will be transferred to the position of the Palestinians, or what?
            1. Chaldon48 April 1 2020 09: 37 New
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              The world Jewish diaspora, even a film on this subject was busy. Already there posts have been distributed, Jacob Kedemi will be in charge of intelligence, Solovyov television and other media
              1. Octopus April 1 2020 09: 41 New
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                Quote: Chaldon48
                World Jewish Diaspora

                What a fidget.
              2. fk7777777 April 5 2020 00: 00 New
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                Oh, let the whole beau monde take away with them, and take a poke of them all there. To the songs of Pugacheva.
            2. fk7777777 April 4 2020 23: 57 New
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              On Novaya Zemlya they wanted, they talked a lot of snow, and it is not hot in summer.
    4. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 12 New
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      Strange, for some reason, the maps of Europe for 1914, being a schoolboy in the 80s, did not surprise me for some reason.


      But it was necessary!

      Surprise is the path to knowledge! am
      1. Chaldon48 April 2 2020 03: 34 New
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        The man envied the birds and was probably surprised, and learned to fly!
    5. Magus 30 March 2020 18: 04 New
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      Quote: Gene84
      Strange, for some reason, the maps of Europe for 1914, being a schoolboy in the 80s, did not surprise me

      Because we were very well taught history at school
  2. Gene84 30 March 2020 07: 26 New
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    Comrade Stalin, with an unshakable hand, drew some lines there

    Well, directly, personally, Comrade Stalin took a pencil in his hands and drew the borders saying: "This is for us, this is for Poland, this is again for Poland." Rave. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (NKID) of the USSR what then did?
    1. maidan.izrailovich 30 March 2020 08: 01 New
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      Well, directly, personally, Comrade Stalin took a pencil in his hands and drew the borders, saying: ....

      Not personally. But the borders of a modern state called Ukraine appeared precisely under Stalin. And that is a fact. Apparently there were few Russians in the leadership then. And there was no one to explain to the Georgian that this is Russian land.
      1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 08: 23 New
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        Quote: maidan.izrailovich
        the borders of the modern state called Ukraine appeared precisely under Stalin. And that is a fact. Apparently there were few Russians in the leadership then. And there was no one to explain to the Georgian that this is Russian land.

        It is strange that you assume that something had to be explained to JV Stalin, regarding national policy. Moreover, the deputies of him, during the period of the People’s Commissariat, were representatives of many nationalities.

        The People's Commissariat for Nationalities of the RSFSR (NKNats, or People’s Commissariat) is the state body of the RSFSR for the implementation of the national policy of the Soviet Republic, operated from October 1917 to April 1924.

        JV Stalin was appointed People's Commissar for Nationalities.

        He was subordinate to: I.P. Tovstukha (future personal secretary of Stalin), S. S. Pestkovsky, F. A. Sova-Stepnyak and I. Yu. Kulik.
        Board of People’s Commissariat: N. Narimanov, M. Pavlovich, S. Dimanshtein, O. Karklin, G. Broydo, M. D. Huseynov, A.Z. Kamensky, S. Pestkovsky.


        As the main tasks of the People’s Commissariat were identified:

        - ensuring peaceful cohabitation and fraternal cooperation of all nationalities and tribes

        - RSFSR, as well as contractual friendly Soviet republics;

        - assistance to their material and spiritual development, in relation to the peculiarities of their way of life, culture and economic condition;

        - monitoring the implementation of the national policy of Soviet power.
      2. EvilLion 30 March 2020 09: 44 New
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        Khrushchev has already given Crimea.
        About Stalin’s Russianness would you teach a materiel?
    2. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 15 New
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      Well, directly, personally, Comrade Stalin took a pencil in his hands and drew the borders saying: "This is for us, this is for Poland, this is again for Poland." Rave. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (NKID) of the USSR what then did?



      You do not rush to extremes:
      Do it yourself is one thing.
      Managing work is another.

      But he didn’t draw personally, he didn’t.
      He set tasks and controlled
      1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 09: 18 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        Do it yourself is one thing.
        Managing work is another.

        And "keep abreast", that is, control the process, this is the third wink
    3. fk7777777 April 5 2020 00: 03 New
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      I listened to what the esteemed comrade would say. Stalin. For the words, then it was really necessary to answer not only the mouth of the person who opened it, but also to all members of his family and inner circle.
  3. The leader of the Redskins 30 March 2020 07: 53 New
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    My son is 20. So he has a poor idea of ​​how it was TWO Germany, and TWO Berlin! He showed him a map, a photo of the wall, too, but the youth is hard to perceive that there could be a “thorn” with a machine gunner’s tower and the border of another state outside your window!
    1. maidan.izrailovich 30 March 2020 08: 05 New
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      My son is 20. So he has a poor idea of ​​how it was TWO Germany, and TWO Berlin!

      Yes, a jester with her with this Germany and her Berlin.
      And you and your son do not care about the fact that the Russian city of Kiev is now completely not even Russian?
      1. The leader of the Redskins 30 March 2020 08: 25 New
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        No. Do not care. I'm realist. In 1991, he did not participate in the referendum on infancy. But he reconciled to the fact that his father began to live in neighboring countries. And until recent events, I saw nothing wrong with that.
      2. EvilLion 30 March 2020 09: 47 New
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        Well then what? Theoretically, the Ukrainian SSR could simply mix up and dissolve in the RSFSR, but for a number of reasons and Khrushchev’s punishment to the Nazis this did not happen. Moreover, the problem of the so-called Ukrainians are not new, it was not the Bolsheviks who invented it, and not even Austrians, now this abscess has swollen and opened, but the treatment should result in the complete elimination of Ukraine as a phenomenon.
        1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 10: 06 New
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          Dear EvilLion. Why did you decide that Ukraine, as a phenomenon, needs to be eliminated. By the way, what is this in your understanding? You live in Russia? If not, correct it. As a resident of Ukraine, I do not give you advice and suggestions on what needs to be eliminated in Russia. Decide, eliminate or create for yourself what you want. Why do the inhabitants of Russia constantly offer and advise what to do in Ukraine? Regards, Red Dragon.
          1. Kronos 30 March 2020 11: 56 New
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            The imperial complex crushes want to be lords over the slaves
          2. pru-pavel 30 March 2020 18: 00 New
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            Man proposes a “final solution to the Ukrainian question”, not new.
        2. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 38 New
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          Well then what? Theoretically, the Ukrainian SSR could simply mix and dissolve in the RSFSR,


          You know - right-bank - is unlikely.
  4. melihov 30 March 2020 08: 03 New
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    Having removed their head, they do not cry through their hair. And Kiev’s head has long been without brains.
    1. maidan.izrailovich 30 March 2020 08: 12 New
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      And Kiev’s head has long been without brains.

      The Germans lived in Königsberg. Now Russians live in Kaliningrad.
      So it was a German city.
      And here is the Russian city. You won’t even have to change the name. It is only necessary to clear the invaders.
      1. Old partisan 30 March 2020 08: 51 New
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        Borders are drawn with the blade of a sword. And if you just screamed and hopak, take a rag to your nose and be quiet silently.
        1. Insurgent 30 March 2020 08: 56 New
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          Quote: Old Partisan
          Borders are drawn with the blade of a sword. And if you just screamed and hopak, take a rag to your nose and be quiet silently.

          So do not be silent after all!
          And the fact that their status is wretched must be kept silent, nobody plainly, intelligibly, explained no
      2. Moon 30 March 2020 11: 58 New
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        Quote: maidan.izrailovich
        And here is the Russian city. You won’t even have to change the name. It is only necessary to clear the invaders.

        from more than 4 million inhabitants or what?
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 38 New
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          And Chernihiv? Ancient Russian city!
      3. fk7777777 April 5 2020 00: 07 New
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        In fact, these are all Russian, or rather Slavic cities, and Berlin and Vienna, so that it was also occupied uncharacteristically, they just returned theirs.
    2. Magus 30 March 2020 18: 15 New
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      Right The Kiev authorities have long lived on instincts, instincts instilled and trained by the owner from Washington.
      1. Fat
        Fat 31 March 2020 16: 08 New
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        Quote: Magus
        Right The Kiev authorities have long lived on instincts, instincts instilled and trained by the owner from Washington.

        So this is not instinct, but a conditioned reflex, like Pavlov’s dog’s call ..
        Then if you stop giving the eater after the signal, then drooling will cease to stand out ...)))
  5. Octopus 30 March 2020 08: 26 New
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    )))
    The author, as is usually the case with geopolitics, despises the materiel and deals only with his fantasies.

    1. Germany Adenauer really did not recognize the Yalta conspiracy and officially considered the German voivodship and East Prussia to be temporarily occupied territories.
    2. Since then, the position of Germany has changed. Partly sick, partly impractical. Germany is one people, one country, one Merkel. The German people have not been found in these places for a long time, so there is nothing to attach.
    3. 30 years ago, Germany reunited with the GDR. This turned out to be an extremely costly and troublesome event. Since then, there’s no one who really wants to reunite. The same applies to Poland in the case of Western Belarus / Ukraine. Greatness is greatness, but money, unlike rising from its knees, is not and never will be.
    4. Across Ukraine. The author, apparently, does not know that Ukraine has problems with recognizing the eastern borders, and not the western ones. The reasons are indicated in clause 3.
    5. About aggressive Romania with Hungary is very interesting. But the problems with money are the same as in Poland. In the event of the collapse of the Ukrainian state, the EU is just interested in holding the buffer state, and not accepting another 40 million beggars at all. And the great Romania has not yet had the courage to deal even with Bessarabia; it is the failed (excuse me if I offend anyone) state of Moldova. She has very bad money.
    1. Mitroha 30 March 2020 09: 07 New
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      Quote: Octopus
      Since then, the position of Germany has changed. Partly sick, partly impractical.

      It seems to me that this is for the time being, and because of the unflattering demographic situation both in Germany and in many countries of the "old" Europe. As soon as demography demonstrates a qualitative and constant growth, daddies with these questions will be pulled out from under the cloth and popped on the table
      1. Octopus 30 March 2020 10: 11 New
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        Quote: Mitroha
        demonstrate high-quality and continuous growth

        Sorry.
        When in Germany there will be a constant and substantial demographic growth, they will need to annex not Poland, but the Balkans, punch a corridor to Turkey, the old homeland of the new Germans. One people, one country, one sultan, so to speak.
    2. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 22 New
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      1. The FRG of Adenauer did not really recognize the Yalta conspiracy and officially considered the German voivodships and East Prussia to be temporarily occupied territories.
      2. Since then, the position of Germany has changed. Partly sick, partly impractical. Germany is one people, one country, one Merkel. The German people have not been found in these places for a long time, so there is nothing to attach.


      Have you decided all this for the Germans?
      Do you know German?
      In the know Internal discussions?
      Do you personally report on the plans of the German leadership?

      The Germans do not want war, they do not want war ... but they climbed into Ukraine very actively.
      1. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 47 New
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        Bundeswehr invasion of Ukraine?
        What else do you have from the news in stock?
        smile
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 50 New
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          Bundeswehr invasion of Ukraine?
          What else do you have from the news in stock?


          You will still tell fabulous stories about the "People's Maidan"?
          Financing, support, political recognition of the militants who came to power - this is all Germany.

          Without Germany, there would simply be no Maidan-2.
          1. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 53 New
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            You made my day smile
            More recently, the States were engaged in this, and here such a turn of history smile
      2. Octopus 30 March 2020 10: 19 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        Stay up to date with their internal discussions?

        For a beer? No. Officially? This is no secret to anyone.
    3. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 25 New
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      . 3. 30 years ago, Germany reunited with the GDR. This turned out to be an extremely costly and troublesome event.

      On the legal side, the formal violation of the official results of the Second World War on the borders was just the formation of separate Germany and East Germany instead of a single German state
      1. Octopus 30 March 2020 10: 20 New
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        Quote: Avior
        it was just the formation of separate FRG and GDR instead of a single German state

        Yes. This point of view was held by Adenauer. Similar to the Chinese situation. But this point of view extended to Poland and to the east. Sacred land, that’s all.

        It has passed.
        1. Avior 30 March 2020 11: 16 New
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          Adenauer's personal views are his business
          And the official results of the Second World War in the decisions of the Potsdam Conference have never been canceled
          1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 35 New
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            And the official results of the Second World War in the decisions of the Potsdam Conference have never been canceled


            The official results of WWII in Eastern Europe became possible as a result of the actions of the Red Army in
            Eastern Europe.
            Something like that.
            The USSR did not become ... and the whisker hung ...
            The law is not confirmed by force - an empty phrase.
            1. Avior 30 March 2020 12: 40 New
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              The official results of World War II are enshrined in the decisions of the Postdam Conference, which no one canceled or violated.
              1. Octopus 30 March 2020 14: 13 New
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                Quote: Avior
                enshrined in the decisions of the Postdam Conference, which no one canceled or violated.

                )))
                Was there anything about West Berlin’s regime?
                1. Avior 30 March 2020 14: 20 New
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                  This is also aligned with the Potsdam Agreement.
                  1. Octopus 30 March 2020 14: 21 New
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                    Before the blockade or after?
                    1. Avior 30 March 2020 14: 33 New
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                      I think you yourself will figure it out ... smile
    4. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 30 New
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      The same applies to Poland in the case of Western Belarus / Ukraine. Greatness greatness


      Once again - how would you know everything about the Poles' plans?
      Personally?
      I don’t understand this manner of deciding everything for someone.


      About aggressive Romania with Hungary is very interesting. But the problems with money are the same as in Poland. In the event of the collapse of the Ukrainian state, the EU is just interested in holding the buffer state, and not accepting another 40 million beggars at all


      Yeah, for example, to keep with the help of a buffer from some “half-zone” under control of Poland / Romania / Hungary.
      You know, dear, the lack of money does not at all prevent the outbreak of war.

      Hitler, by the way, didn’t have them at all. In the 39th year, everything was bad in the German economy.
      In the Italian economy before the Ethiopian adventure - everything is bad
      in the Japanese economy, before the attack on China, everything is very bad.
      But that did not stop the war ...

      As you know, the "small victorious war" is an excellent solution to political problems.

      And here the conversation is not about war but about expansion.
      1. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 39 New
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        . do you know everything about the plans of the Poles?
        Personally?

        40 million Poles, each of them personally has their own plans
        Someone wants to revise the borders, someone to marry, and someone to persuade a neighbor, but not to get married :)
        Why know the plans of the Poles personally?
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 41 New
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          40 million Poles, each of them personally has their own plans
          Someone wants to redefine borders, someone wants to get married


          The Germans (in Germany) before the two wars were about 80 million.
          And everyone had their own plans, someone to repair the store, someone to expand the business ...

          But the Kaiser and the Fuhrer had their own plans ...
          1. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 45 New
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            And of course, they decided collectively on the outbreak of World War II ...
            Now, until every German decided to start a war, didn’t they start?
            Not to mention the fact that Hitler could have had some plans before 1945, but the Poles didn’t have something permanent leader, today one, tomorrow another
      2. Octopus 30 March 2020 10: 27 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        Yeah keep for example using a buffer from some "half-zone" under control

        Everyone likes the half-zone, only the wrong controllers were appointed.

        Only two countries can create half-zones with a population of 50 million people.

        Quote: Olezhek
        “a small victorious war” is an excellent solution to political problems.

        Not for Germany. There they’ll quickly send him to fool for such a thing.
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 10: 55 New
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          Not for Germany. There they’ll quickly send him to fool for such a thing.


          google who started two world wars will be shocked.
          1. Octopus 30 March 2020 11: 02 New
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            Quote: Olezhek
            google who started two world wars

            From the second time it made the Germans smarter. Unlike some others that may repeat.
            1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 09 New
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              From the second time it made the Germans smarter.


              What is your evidence? belay
      3. Kronos 30 March 2020 12: 00 New
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        This is how they were going to solve economic problems by war.
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 30 New
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          This is how they were going to solve economic problems by war.


          Don’t say that! crying
          You can tear Comrade template. Octopus!
        2. Octopus 30 March 2020 14: 20 New
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          You think in vain that Funk was as poorly versed in economics as you.
  6. Pessimist22 30 March 2020 08: 26 New
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    The territory of Ukraine is our land! Our ancestors shed blood for this territory for 500 years, and now two members, one from the CPSU, the other from the KGB, profiled it, so she also became our enemy, we are obliged to return it to our control.
    1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 08: 47 New
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      Dear Pessimist 22. The territory of Ukraine is the land of its inhabitants. In particular, as a resident of Ukraine, mine, I do not pretend to the territory where you live. And I don’t really want you to put her under any control. Please control YOUR apartment, house, street, city, country. Regards Red Dragon winked
      1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 32 New
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        Dear Pessimist 22. The territory of Ukraine is the land of its inhabitants. In particular, as a resident of Ukraine


        And the territory of Donbass is the land of its inhabitants. fellow
        1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 13: 35 New
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          Let me ask, are you a resident of Donbass?
      2. mark1 30 March 2020 12: 42 New
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        Quote: Red Dragon
        And I don’t really want you to put her under any control.

        When a neighbor on the landing daily shits on your rug, knocks on walls and screams obscene ditties at night, tries to steal electricity from a common shield, leads a lesson into the house and writes everything that you think about you at the door - you’ll have to put it under control this was not wanted.
        1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 14: 14 New
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          I don’t want to be honest. And if you come to put me under control, I will shoot at you a little bit, do not blame me. Because it is my right, just as you would shoot, if I come to your home, put you under control. Regards, Red Dragon. wink
        2. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 14: 34 New
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          And who shits anyone, this is a very controversial issue, dear mark1. wink For Russia - this is Ukraine, for Ukraine - mirror - Russia. You can argue about this ad infinitum and hoarseness. Regards, Red Dragon.
  7. WayKheThuo 30 March 2020 09: 06 New
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    Author, please write more!
    Ukraine is an independent state, we are not Ukrainians, we owe them nothing by definition, and we are not obliged to maintain any “dialogue” with them. All the problems of Ukraine are only and exclusively the problems of the Ukrainians themselves, but not ours.


    Briefly, succinctly, on business. Well done, Author.
  8. Avior 30 March 2020 09: 21 New
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    Perhaps the author would first need to get acquainted with the subject of the article, at least in general terms?
    the Germans (and one third of modern Poland stands precisely on the former German lands) did not like this new border at all. And by the way, yes: it was not conducted by certain allies, but clearly and specifically by JV Stalin.

    How the borders of Poland were drawn at the Tehran Conference is no secret

    Churchill's proposal was accepted that Poland’s claim to the lands of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine would be satisfied at the expense of Germany, and that the Curzon line (a conditional line) should be in the east as a border. Churchill finally decided the territorial issue, laying out three matches on the map of Eastern Europe. He laid two of them parallel to the borders of pre-war Poland, and the third - along the Curzon Line. Then Churchill took the extreme (eastern) match and shifted it to the west, at the same distance from the western border of Poland as from the Curzon Line, already along the Oder-Neisse line. Such a simple reception was approved by all participants, the USSR received areas in the northern territories of East Prussia with Königsberg, which soon after the occupation of the city by the Red Army was called Kaliningrad.

    According to Roosevelt’s proposal, this was not reported to the Pole (in the States there was a large Polish community and he was afraid of indignation), they had nothing to do with the adoption of new borders
    In addition, these issues were resolved at the Yalta Conference; the final Border Line was different from the Curzon Line, but overall was pretty close.
    In the same place at the Yalta Conference, in addition to finally resolving the borders, due to heavy losses and active participation in the war with the Nazis, it was decided that the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR would be among the founding states of the UN, and as a result, the People’s Commissariats were first created in the BSSR and the Ukrainian SSR foreign affairs, and later - ministries
    Finally, a new border was enshrined in the main document on the official results of the Second World War in Europe, the decisions of the Potsdam Conference.
    As for borders, the inviolability of borders after the war persisted and consisted in the fact that states can not claim in any form to annex the territories of another state, which is respected.
    Therefore, for example, Kosovo Albanians cannot join Albania, however much they would like
    As the author needs to be more serious about the actual side of the issue, in my opinion
    hi
    1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 09: 58 New
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      Perhaps the author would first need to get acquainted with the subject of the article, at least in general terms?


      Dear Sergey, what prevents you from writing a detailed article with the same title, but with the opposite conclusions?
      What, they say, is everything all right and the borders are stable?

      As for borders, the inviolability of borders after the war remained


      belay
      1. Avior 30 March 2020 10: 16 New
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        You can simply write how many territories have been transferred to other states by force, and everything will fall into place.
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 10: 54 New
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          You can simply write how many territories have been transferred to other states by force, and everything will fall into place.


          1 I understand it is difficult to prove the opposite. It is very difficult to prove something.
          2 And why do you formulate “inviolability of borders” in your own way?
          The Czechoslovak section is like already redrawing borders in Europe, as well as the division of Yugoslavia (forced)
          also a violation
          No need to invent your own definitions.
          1. Avior 30 March 2020 10: 56 New
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            +1
            Read more about redrawing borders under the section of Czechoslovakia, for example
            At the same time, the borders of which states were redrawn?
            1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 01 New
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              Read more about redrawing borders under the section of Czechoslovakia, for example
              At the same time, the borders of which states were redrawn?


              Listen - you will know more in detail - do you have Google on coupons?

              There was Czechoslovakia, she was gone.
              General.
              She was eliminated.
              Moreover, the decision was not made by the Czechs or Slovaks.
              It was cut into two parts.
              But the source state did not exist at all!
              1. Avior 30 March 2020 11: 13 New
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                You wrote about redrawing borders, did you forget?
                So I ask, the borders of which states were redrawn?
                The Czech Republic and Slovakia are in place, have not disappeared, their neighbors too
                And with Google I'm fine
                1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 15 New
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                  So I ask, the borders of which states were redrawn?
                  The Czech Republic and Slovakia are in place, have not disappeared, their neighbors too


                  I give an example - Lugansk and Donetsk also did not disappear anywhere - they are in place, but outside of Ukraine.
                  Any questions?
                  1. Avior 30 March 2020 11: 30 New
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                    Of course I have
                    What does this have to do with the topic of conversation in general and the question of Czechoslovakia in particular?
                    Something you all mixed up
                    If you really have nothing to say about the matter under discussion, then
                    hi
                    1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 36 New
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                      Of course I have
                      What does this have to do with the topic of conversation in general and the question of Czechoslovakia in particular?


                      direct analogy, just
                      Adyn to Adyn lol

                      The Czech Republic and Slovakia are still here?
                      Well, Lugansk and Donetsk have not gone anywhere!
                      You don’t see the analogy, but it is!


                      do not like? but such is life!
                      1. Avior 30 March 2020 12: 31 New
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                        and what is the analogy? LNR were an independent state - a member of the UN, like Czechoslovakia and divided by mutual agreement on the DPR and DPR? You have a rich imagination.
                        So what about redrawing borders in Europe? I am waiting for examples from you. Or will you take the conversation aside?
                      2. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 44 New
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                        and what is the analogy? LNR were an independent state - a member of the UN, like Czechoslovakia and divided by mutual agreement on the DPR and DPR?


                        Sorry, Czechoslovakia (a single UN member state) was divided from the outside (cut) into two parts (Neither the Czech Republic nor Slovakia were UN members)

                        Somehow, the LPR and the DPR left Ukraine.
                        The borders of the neighbors did not change at the same time.
                      3. Avior 30 March 2020 12: 49 New
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                        So what about redrawing borders in Europe? I am waiting for examples from you. Or will you take the conversation aside?

                        I wait for you to stop bustling and answer the question. Otherwise
                        hi
                      4. Octopus 30 March 2020 14: 29 New
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                        )))
                        I tried to remember when the last time in Europe redraw the borders. It seems the last time this was done on the very edge, North Cyprus. And then there is an unrecognized republic.
  • Svateev 30 March 2020 10: 22 New
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    Quote: Avior
    Kosovo Albanians cannot join Albania, however much they would like

    Until they can. And then the situation changes and things are done like this:
    Quote: Avior
    At the suggestion of Roosevelt, this was not reported to the Pole.

    You yourself wrote it!
    IMPORTANT! I am NOT advocating Kosovo joining Albania. I, from your commentary, show the contradictory nature of your views.
    1. Avior 30 March 2020 10: 44 New
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      I have no inconsistency
      We are talking specifically about post-war Europe, but before and as a result of the war, borders were changing
      The situation changed after the war
  • Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 28 New
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    decisions of the Potsdam conference.
    As for borders, the inviolability of borders after the war remained


    laughing fellow

    Especially after 1991 ...
    1. Avior 30 March 2020 12: 44 New
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      Yes.
      Not a single state received an increase in territory at the expense of its neighbors.
      1. Svateev 31 March 2020 10: 58 New
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        Quote: Avior
        Not a single state received an increase in territory at the expense of its neighbors.

        Yeah. Only NATO was added due to the destruction of Yugoslavia, Serbia (Kosovo) ...
        I understand, I understand, you are talking about states, not about blocs ... What is beneficial for you, you are talking about ...
        1. Avior 31 March 2020 12: 19 New
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          +1
          it's about borders, actually.
          that is, about states
          hi
  • apro 30 March 2020 09: 26 New
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    We woke up .... the destruction of the USSR created a new reality. And in this reality, its possibilities for reconsideration and borders. And world order. That it will be possible to reconsider and Russia can also take part here ... in any capacity ...
    1. cniza 30 March 2020 12: 33 New
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      Yes, many more did not realize that this was the beginning of the redivision of the world and this process will affect very many ...
  • A. Privalov 30 March 2020 11: 46 New
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    Someone, quite recently, just like that, took quite a bit, one might say peacefully, bite off a neighbor’s territory equal to another whole state, because this neighbor “didn’t have the strength to keep” this piece. The author draws historical parallels and is surprised that Germany does not make claims to Poland and does not take away the lands belonging to it, at one time? Is it time to deal with the "voluntary" accession of Bukovina and Bessarabia, etc.? If you dig well, the Romanians have something to present to the Turks. Just worth the start.
    As for schoolchildren 80--, they still understood something in the modern world order for them, this is in contrast to today's schoolchildren.
    1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 54 New
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      Someone, quite recently, just like that, took quite a bit, one might say peacefully, bite off a neighbor’s territory equal to another whole state, because this neighbor “didn’t have the strength to keep” this piece


      Are you talking about Kosovo?
      Well ... this is a special case! Exceptional!
      1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 11: 56 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        Someone, quite recently, just like that, took quite a bit, one might say peacefully, bite off a neighbor’s territory equal to another whole state, because this neighbor “didn’t have the strength to keep” this piece


        Are you talking about Kosovo?
        Well ... this is a special case! Exceptional!

        There are still options, perhaps. Do not find?
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 58 New
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          There are still options, perhaps. Do not find?


          If my conscience were clear, everything would be fine!
          1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 12: 22 New
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            Quote: Olezhek
            There are still options, perhaps. Do not find?


            If my conscience were clear, everything would be fine!

            I recall an old joke.
            “Honduras really bothers me.”
            - And you do not scratch, will pass by itself.

            hi
    2. Olezhek 30 March 2020 12: 26 New
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      The author draws historical parallels and is surprised that Germany does not make claims to Poland and does not take away the lands belonging to it, at one time?


      1 A real war always starts suddenly. (Kill the dragon)
      2 The story is not over yet (not Fukuyama)
      1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 12: 43 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        The author draws historical parallels and is surprised that Germany does not make claims to Poland and does not take away the lands belonging to it, at one time?


        1 A real war always starts suddenly. (Kill the dragon)
        2 The story is not over yet (not Fukuyama)

        It is in fairy tales that you can wake up in the morning, look out the window, scratch in one place and decide to go to war. It’s not like that in life. Wars are ripening. Ripen for years and decades. Contradictions accumulate, weapons accumulate, etc.
        As for History, I consider it only as a humanitarian science, and not as a form of speech. hi
    3. Gene84 30 March 2020 13: 19 New
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      Quote: A. Privalov
      Someone, quite recently, just like that, took quite a bit, one might say peacefully, bite off a neighbor’s territory equal to another whole state, because this neighbor “didn’t have the strength to keep” this piece.

      Some people usually somehow somehow forget that there was a referendum and the people expressed their will on it.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Is it time to deal with the "voluntary" accession of Bukovina and Bessarabia, etc.? If you dig well, the Romanians have something to show

      To romanians? In fact, they occupied Bessarabia and Bukovina. And the USSR never recognized these territories as Romanian.
      1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 14: 11 New
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        Quote: Gene84
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Someone, quite recently, just like that, took quite a bit, one might say peacefully, bite off a neighbor’s territory equal to another whole state, because this neighbor “didn’t have the strength to keep” this piece.

        Some people usually somehow somehow forget that there was a referendum and the people expressed their will on it.
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Is it time to deal with the "voluntary" accession of Bukovina and Bessarabia, etc.? If you dig well, the Romanians have something to show

        To romanians? In fact, they occupied Bessarabia and Bukovina. And the USSR never recognized these territories as Romanian.

        The question was not about whether there was a referendum or not, expressed its will, or did not express whether or not to recognize - after the Anschluss of Austria, there was also a referendum and also the people expressed their will on it. The question was completely different: is it worth starting today to review the borders that have developed since World War II and redraw Europe? Many have different grievances and claims.
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 16: 18 New
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          The question was completely different: is it worth starting today to review the borders that have developed since World War II and redraw Europe?


          After Kosovo, this is a purely hypothetical question.
          The Americans have already decided - is.
          1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 16: 44 New
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            Quote: Olezhek
            The question was completely different: is it worth starting today to review the borders that have developed since World War II and redraw Europe?


            After Kosovo, this is a purely hypothetical question.
            The Americans have already decided - is.

            Do you think that the hour is not far off when the next asterisk appears on the US flag? Well, then we will wait and have the pleasure of observing how Americandia will grow in land. laughing
            1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 18: 57 New
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              Do you think that the hour is not far off when the next asterisk appears on the US flag?


              Listen, do you have such a fad about "inclusion"?
              The United States, along with NATO partners, bombed Yugoslavia and seized Kosovo,
              The United States does not need to include Kosovo in its membership; they simply deployed a base there.
              1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 19: 15 New
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                Quote: Olezhek
                Do you think that the hour is not far off when the next asterisk appears on the US flag?


                Listen, do you have such a fad about "inclusion"?
                The United States, along with NATO partners, bombed Yugoslavia and seized Kosovo,
                The United States does not need to include Kosovo in its membership; they simply deployed a base there.

                You started “for health”: about borders, about the territorial claims of some European countries to others, and you ended “for peace” - with some kind of American base. Finely.
                1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 19: 59 New
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                  and ended up "for peace" - some sort of American base. Finely.


                  If you consider what happened to Yugoslavia as a trifle, I sincerely wish your country to go through this.
                  Is this a trifle?
      2. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 16: 42 New
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        By the way, the people of Kosovo also expressed their will. But Russia did not recognize this will. Strange, we recognize there, we don’t recognize there. wink
    4. Olezhek 30 March 2020 19: 00 New
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      Someone, just recently, just like that, and quite, you can say peacefully, took a bite from a neighbor’s territory


      If you are about Ukraine, then we very much respect its ter. value.
      Strictly within the borders in which it became part of Russia.
      Divorce, maiden name and bare ass (as it was originally). am
      Something like a colleague! There are no free cakes!
      (your western partners will easily explain this to you on your fingers)
      1. A. Privalov 30 March 2020 19: 20 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        Someone, just recently, just like that, and quite, you can say peacefully, took a bite from a neighbor’s territory


        If you are about Ukraine, then we very much respect its ter. value.
        Strictly within the borders in which it became part of Russia.
        Divorce, maiden name and bare ass (as it was originally). am
        Something like a colleague! There are no free cakes!
        (your western partners will easily explain this to you on your fingers)

        On the fingers, it looks like this: this new acquisition for you is like a suitcase without a handle - it's hard to drag, but it's a pity to drop it. And for these stale cakes, only you pay. lol
  • Humpty 30 March 2020 11: 46 New
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    I’m familiar with many Poles, they are mostly neutral towards Russia. However, at the expense of the west of Ukraine they do not hide the desire to pick up to Poland when the window of opportunity appears. They need this land, only the population does not need at all. Poland is interested in maximum depopulation resp. territory.
    1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 11: 53 New
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      However, at the expense of the west of Ukraine do not hide the desire to pick up in Poland when the window of opportunity appears


      1 Window very close
      2
      only the population does not need at all
      Not surprising
      3 What about Comrade Belarus and Belarusians? Poles?
      1. Humpty 30 March 2020 12: 02 New
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        Quote: Olezhek
        What about Belarus

        About Belarus somehow it did not go. He was interested in the account of Polish Russophobia, they say that this is more inherent in the older generation, young people usually do not care about historical contradictions with Russia.
  • iouris 30 March 2020 12: 26 New
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    Everything flows, everything changes, so there is no need to raise the boundaries of consciousness. Politics is a concentrated expression of the economy. Every idea inevitably shames itself, when it is separated from interest. There is no economy without interest, so the basis of the state is economic interests. The state is primarily an economy, i.e. state borders are set on socio-economic grounds. Interest will change - borders will change. Not only in Eastern Europe. Fasten your seat belt.
  • cniza 30 March 2020 12: 30 New
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    It is difficult to say exactly what this will lead to, but the complete inviolability of borders in the coming decades seems unlikely.


    The time has come and no one will stop this process ...
    1. Gene84 30 March 2020 13: 14 New
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      Quote: cniza
      The time has come and no one will stop this process ...

      Precisely, nobody already remembers the Helsinki border agreements. The redistribution of borders will be very bloody ...
      1. Avior 30 March 2020 14: 04 New
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        While being respected
        III. Inviolability of borders
        The participating States regard as inviolable all the borders of each other.
        the borders of all states in Europe, and therefore they will refrain now and in the future from
        any encroachment on these borders.
        They will accordingly refrain from any requirements or actions,
        aimed at seizing and usurping part or all of the territory of any participating state.
        1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 14: 35 New
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          And so
          the borders of all states in Europe, and therefore they will refrain now and in the future from
          any encroachment on these borders.


          So tell this to the Serbs.


          While being respected


          After the "recognition" of Kosovo, Russia officially announced that international law is as good as law!
          That is, Russia (the country that defeated Hitler) posed the question with an edge - if you recognize Kosovo, then all previous agreements and treaties seem to be suspended.
          Like the European borders.

          They admitted.

          Well, a flag in your hands and a drum around your neck!
          1. Moon 30 March 2020 15: 48 New
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            Quote: Olezhek
            That is, Russia (the country that defeated Hitler) posed the question with an edge
            abruptly
            It turns out Hitler Russia won ..
            In general, alternative kind of went ..
            Can I participate?
            So the Soviet Union was not immediately from the Republic of Ingushetia became Russia-defeated Hitler and posed a question with an edge ..
            1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 15: 55 New
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              It turns out Hitler Russia won ..
              In general, alternative kind of went ..
              Can I participate?


              no - Hitler was defeated exclusively by the Westerners and the Balts (because the nations are civilized, European) and therefore won.
              1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 16: 44 New
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                My grandfather went through the whole war. Has rewards. He was a Ukrainian. And only Russia won. Oh how belay
                1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 18: 54 New
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                  My grandfather went through the whole war. Has rewards. He was a Ukrainian. And only Russia won. Oh how


                  And Ukraine renounced it ... itself, voluntarily
                  Or did he serve in Galicia?
                  Explain.
                  1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 19: 04 New
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                    And where did you get the idea that she renounced? The day before yesterday, I was in Victory Park in Zaporozhye, everything was removed. The Victory Monument is neat and tidy, ready for the anniversary. The year before last, I was with a portrait of my grandfather at the Victory Regiment rally, an analogue of your Immortal Regiment, I wanted to do it too, but now I don’t know if there will be any kind of celebration in connection with this coronavirus. You can see on the Internet a photo of a Jew Zelensky at the grave of his grandfather a veteran last year. Therefore, I am surprised by the Russians, who all know about us, just do not fly. wink
                  2. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 19: 47 New
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                    Listen to the media less. I have both Russian and Ukrainian channels. There is an opportunity to compare. I try to watch only films and that's it. News programs and all kinds of talk shows are five minutes of hatred, what's there, what's there. Expanse and earnings for propagandists. Straight on Orwell "1984". Regards, Red Dragon.
                    1. Olezhek 30 March 2020 20: 03 New
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                      .
                      The year before last I was with a portrait of my grandfather at the rally "Victory Regiment", an analogue of your Immortal Regiment,


                      Listen to the media less. I have both Russian and Ukrainian channels.



                      And I, as it were, have already made all the conclusions.
                      In Ukraine.
                      Miracles do not happen.

                      I somehow do not really believe in the magical Ukrainians, who were slandered by the Russian media.
                      1. Red Dragon 30 March 2020 20: 08 New
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                        Your right. Someone believes in flat earth. wink Faith is an irrational concept. Good luck to you.
        2. Kushka 30 March 2020 14: 51 New
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          That's it for now. Recall how long the "Versailles" order served
          - until the 39th, how long the “Potsdam” lasted - until the 91st, how much
          hold out "Helsinki"?
          1. Avior 30 March 2020 14: 55 New
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            while the Potsdam and Helsinki decisions are respected.
            But, of course, there is nothing infinitely unchanged in the world
            1. Kushka 30 March 2020 17: 22 New
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              But what about what is higher - Yugoslavia, Kosovo? Or is it all within?
              1. Avior 30 March 2020 19: 45 New
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                Did someone join them?
                The mutual border of the two states existing at that time has changed?
  • dgonni 30 March 2020 18: 47 New
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    The author so interestingly described the problem that Maltz forgot about Russia. With this approach, we should recall who and in the person of which state signed the treaty abroad with Japan and China. Although in the Far East in five years there will be some kind of thread of the Far Eastern People’s Republic of China. Do not go to the grandmother. And all the quiet glanders are purely economic and demographic leverage. And no swords needed
  • Dizel200 31 March 2020 17: 10 New
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    And why did all this have to be done to Joseph Vissarionovich?
  • Pavel57 April 1 2020 14: 04 New
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    You can only have what you can hold.
  • Smirnov Mikhail April 3 2020 17: 10 New
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    My favorite author is making progress, and no longer writes the stupid things that were before. My sincere congratulations..