Military Review

Machine tools a century ago: what equipped the cartridge plant in Ukraine

71

The Security Service of Ukraine revealed the embezzlement of public funds allocated for the organization of the production of cartridges, the urgent need of which is experienced by the country's armed forces.


An unnamed NGO brought in from abroad the machinery necessary for the creation of production.

Outdated, technically defective and non-contractual equipment was imported. Most of the imported machines were made in the 20s of the last century.

- says the official statement of the SBU.

As a result, the means of production have a high degree of amortization and are not suitable for the production of cartridges of the required caliber. A criminal case has been opened.

Apparently, we are talking about the state-owned NGO Fort, located in Vinnitsa. In December 2018, the commissioning of the first production line was announced. This event was given great importance in connection with the loss in 2014 of the capacities located in the Donbas, which produced for the law enforcement agencies the independent rifle and artillery ammunition.

The enterprise is equipped with modern high-tech equipment.

- says the NGO website.

However, in the photo material and video frames of the SBU, machine tools of the German company FRITZ WERNER of an outdated design are guessed. It has been operating since 1896 and, over a long period of activity, managed to supply equipment to many clients, including the Soviet government during the period of industrialization of the USSR, which took place in the 1920s and 1930s. Most likely, it is these machines of a hundred years ago that were discovered by the SBU at the site of the "modern" cartridge production.


Assortment of cartridges produced by NPO Fort


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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 28 March 2020 07: 31 New
    35
    FRITZ WERNER obsolete design. It has been operating since 1896 and for a long time of activity managed to supply equipment to many customers.
    Shaw pester? The country is undergoing desovetization, to establish rotary lines of Koshkin 40-80gg. religion does not allow.
    1. Alex Nevs
      Alex Nevs 28 March 2020 07: 53 New
      +6
      And then the money appeared at the valtsman. laughing
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 28 March 2020 08: 07 New
        +6
        Quote: Alex Nevs
        And then the money appeared at the valtsman. laughing


        And these:
      2. Barakuda
        Barakuda 28 March 2020 08: 28 New
        11
        Quote: Alex Nevs
        And then the money appeared at the valtsman. laughing

        He increased his capital several times and hurt others. laughing
        Under the slogan Ukraine ce Europe .... And Russia is to blame for everything.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 March 2020 10: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Barakuda
          Several times increased his capital and others unhurt

          And after all, everyone knows that everyone is stealing, but no one is afraid and continue to steal request
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 28 March 2020 12: 26 New
            +5
            Why are they afraid? Of the high-ranking thieves who committed theft in especially large sizes, not one is still sitting. And it’s unlikely to sit down. Only criminal cases, but given the venality of the judges, the result is already known.
            1. Nikolai Grek
              Nikolai Grek 28 March 2020 21: 11 New
              +4
              Quote: TermNachTER
              Why are they afraid? Of the high-ranking thieves who committed theft in especially large sizes, not one is still sitting. And it’s unlikely to sit down. Only criminal cases, but given the venality of the judges, the result is already known.

              while the Maidan is not recognized as a crime, they will not be able to plant anyone !!! request wassat
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 28 March 2020 23: 15 New
                +2
                Whoever planted him, he is a monument.
      3. PalBor
        PalBor 28 March 2020 12: 16 New
        +9
        None. He oversaw procurement and opened the Avakov line. $ 1,7 million was spent on securities. For Arsen Borisovich, of course, a trifle, but a hen on the grain ...
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 28 March 2020 12: 27 New
          +4
          1.7 lyama is not even funny. Backpacks on French helicopters earned 20 times more.
          1. PalBor
            PalBor 28 March 2020 13: 21 New
            +3
            Well, yes ... In total, approx. 70 million hryvnias, then this is approx. $ 3 million. Maybe Avakov gave some sort of libel, like the director of a plant. In general, a penny saves a hryvnia ... or a hryvnia ...
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 28 March 2020 16: 59 New
              +2
              Actually, Vinnitsa is the estate of Parashenko, although everything can be.
              1. PalBor
                PalBor 28 March 2020 19: 37 New
                +2
                May be. Of course, I don’t know for sure, I only transmit what I found on the network. However, at the opening, Mr. Minister.


                1. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 28 March 2020 23: 18 New
                  +1
                  Well, Ryukzakov may well be there, since the plant is run by the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I especially liked the creation of the "new Fort pistol", chambered for the old 9mm cartridge. Makarova
                  1. PalBor
                    PalBor 28 March 2020 23: 58 New
                    0
                    Including there, 9 to 18 are also doing. Why Ryukzakov? Something I missed.
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 29 March 2020 16: 58 New
                      +2
                      This was driven to him in honor of the party of backpacks, which were purchased for the National Guard, through the firm of his son. PM cartridges are made there, but what is the point of these cartridges when the whole world has already switched to highly pulsed ones.
                      1. PalBor
                        PalBor 29 March 2020 22: 57 New
                        0
                        Well yes. Thank you, I remembered it was the case)))
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 28 March 2020 08: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      religion does not allow

      Surround, and do not blaspheme the gods of the great Maydaun!

      Tse use, schob zrada ne bulo! Salam Ukraine! Maidan akbar!
    3. 113262a
      113262a 28 March 2020 08: 35 New
      10
      Koshkin's lines produced our plant by him. Lugansk. And SKTB on them, it was here. Alas, there is no plant, no brains. There was a line, or rather two! Everything is sad.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 28 March 2020 08: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: 113262
        Alas, there is no plant, no brains.

        My neighbor, led by Koshkin, worked. He died a year and a half ago, receiving a disability pension of 5 thousand. He was not cured in the hospital.
        1. 113262a
          113262a 28 March 2020 08: 50 New
          12
          Our factory worldwide has supplied lines. Rotary conveyor. The institute supplied personnel. . In the mid-90s, everything was covered.
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 28 March 2020 08: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: 113262
        Koshkin's lines produced our plant by him. Lugansk. And SKTB on them, it was here. Alas, there is no plant, no brains.

        They say that the plant was contracted before the war, with the active participation of the "regional" Efremov.

        Can you add something about this?
        1. 113262a
          113262a 28 March 2020 10: 23 New
          +6
          But without Efremov and others like him, nothing disappeared! And diesel, and Lisichansk soda, and Nitrogen, and much more! Although, the crankshaft plant 20 years of October was cut by a Tymoshenko from Donetsk! Only in Lugansk there were 11 large factories. Now, not a single one! Stupidly in scrap!
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 28 March 2020 10: 29 New
            +7
            Quote: 113262
            But without Efremov and others like him, nothing disappeared! And diesel, and Lisichansk soda, and Nitrogen, and much more!

            I am from the DPR, and we have a lot, a lot of cut. But not all. Such a revelry as you did not have.
            Apparently thanks to the ahmetka, who wanted to pick up "tasty pieces" for himself, and prevented other "parthegennosses" from grabbing them.

            Thanks for the reply.
            1. 113262a
              113262a 28 March 2020 14: 50 New
              +6
              Efremovschina-and he-NE GAM, and OTHER NE DAM! The mind to support production was not enough, just cut it!
  2. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 28 March 2020 07: 36 New
    10
    What they won’t do, they will plunder and steal everything from the farms. Raguli psychology. That's that.
    1. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek 28 March 2020 21: 13 New
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      What they won’t do, they will plunder and steal everything from the farms. Raguli psychology. That's that.

      and thank God!!! good
      1. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 29 March 2020 19: 35 New
        +1
        hi The time will come again, they will be called brothers, they will climb to hug, they will look into the eyes. Factories will want to.
  3. Pereira
    Pereira 28 March 2020 07: 39 New
    +3
    How much money was given, such is the quality.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 28 March 2020 08: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Pereira
      How much money was given, such quality

      No, no, no ... Obviously you can’t imagine the corruption and theft of ukrovinovnikov.
      Especially these qualities are manifested now, when they begin to feel M over Ukrainian.
  4. Polymer
    Polymer 28 March 2020 07: 50 New
    13
    We bought them, of course, at the price of scrap metal. Sawing the budget is indestructible, and not only in Ukraine.
    On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 28 March 2020 08: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Polymer
      On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.

      Trying to justify this scam? Actually, Ukraine was on an industrial level at the level of European countries and also in armaments .. Where is Oksanka all the money?
      1. Polymer
        Polymer 28 March 2020 09: 30 New
        +4
        Quote: Barakuda
        Trying to justify this scam?

        Not at all. The scam here is only in the fact that it was announced the acquisition of modern machines, the appropriate funds for this were laid down and, most likely, sawn. And I do not condone this.
        I'm only talking about the equipment itself - it will still rivet cartridges, despite its venerable age. Just stating a fact as a techie.
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 28 March 2020 14: 43 New
          +2
          Quote: Polymer
          I'm only talking about the equipment itself - it will still rivet cartridges, despite its venerable age. Just stating a fact as a techie.
          I do not agree. As a techie, you must understand that technology is not only the movement of material, in our case, blame-blame, but also the provision of tolerances, and equipment with a century of experience will not provide this. Replace at least all guide bushings, rolling pins, skids and bearings in addition. Led construction from stress, gouging joints, etc., etc. ........... request
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 28 March 2020 15: 06 New
            +4
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            and equipment with a century of experience will not provide

            Why not? A new stamp also works great on an old press if this press is capable of delivering the necessary effort. And the latter is just provided by replacing bushings, seals, bearings, etc. So that everything will work as it should.
            1. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich 28 March 2020 22: 04 New
              +2
              "... replacement of bushings, seals, bearings, etc. ..." - it's easier to buy a new press, the old press works crookedly and breaks the stamps (bushings, columns pull out, lifts up, the stamp gets jammed - you can't open it) when the guide is worn out. My father told me at the first plant where he worked, all the grinding machines were tied to a belt drive from a common shaft, which set in motion one engine (not electric, but a piston, with one piston, the diameter of the piston in a human girth, if I remember correctly, they started with the help of a horse), here is an example of pre-war technologies of the 30-40s.
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 29 March 2020 05: 17 New
                +2
                Quote: cat Rusich
                Here is an example of pre-war technology of the 30-40s.

                I did not say that ALL equipment of a hundred years ago works perfectly. But in the video for the article you can see that the machines are in good condition.
                And I have another example: I personally saw a German trophy machine - a gear shaping machine for cutting bevel gears from Pfeiffer - which still works great.
                In the very first comment, I specified - "sometimes".
                1. beeper
                  beeper 29 March 2020 20: 09 New
                  +3
                  Up to the end of the 80s, almost without problems and very productively, German milling machines had been working in our tool shop (factory in the South-East of the Ukrainian SSR), obtained, already used in 1937-41, for reparations immediately after the war.
                  When I had to dismantle the "Germans" (to make room for the installation of a very large, newfangled then "processing center"), then I, as a shop technologist, had a chance to observe their disassembly and cutting "for scrap". And to this day, as I recall (although there have already been many other similar things in front of my eyes over the decades, whole factories were destroyed and wiped off the face of the earth by the privatizers, including our one), my heart bleeds from the "oil painting" of a mediocre destruction of our public property ...
                  That we, engineers and workers, was very surprised (if I hadn’t seen this brilliant "as new" splendor of the machine tool "filling" with my own eyes, I would not have taken our word for it! winked ) -all gear wheels, rolling bearings (and bronze sliding bearings too) were "native" -in almost perfect condition, like all the guides of the "milling cutters", as if they had not worked the whole war in Germany, and then, nonstop, everything post-war time in the USSR! good
                  We then, discussing this "phenomenon", came to the general conclusion that the main reasons for such an amazing "preserved" insides of our workshop trophy milling machines are that they were competently designed, the kinematic chains and the strength of the parts were optimally calculated, the probable workers were taken into account as much as possible loads, an effective lubrication system and "delivery links (protection against working overload and" from the actions of a fool ")" in the feeding mechanisms are provided, high-quality materials are used for the manufacture of parts, components and parts, their shaping, finishing and heat treatment, as well as their coupling , landing and adjustment ....
                  An important factor we considered was the increased technical literacy, diligence and labor experience of machine tool workers (the best factory machine operators were traditionally selected in the tool shop! There were plenty to choose from!) And our workshop repairmen.
                  But those German machines were very good and could still serve and serve people, if not for the perestroika and post-perestroika cataclysms! Until now, I continue to be amazed at the "non-commercial" thinking of the then partocrats, who easily sent "under the cutter" and "into scrap" decommissioned, but perfectly working, serviceable factory machines and tools instead of at affordable prices (and even though "at the price of scrap metal" !) sell them to their own population, or, if they really fought against the "individual farmers", then at least to garage cooperatives or state farms-collective farms for the repair of various equipment .... how much of our people's money and opportunities for "deficit-free" satisfaction of the needs of the population was thus mismanaged ruined ??!
  5. Dmitriy444
    Dmitriy444 28 March 2020 07: 54 New
    13
    How interesting. In our country, there have never been such cases. All are crystal honest.
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 28 March 2020 08: 26 New
      0
      Oh this is your sarcasm laughing
    2. serg.shishkov2015
      serg.shishkov2015 28 March 2020 10: 06 New
      0
      The case is MUCH smaller, but from the same opera, my office sent medical masks overdue for several years!
    3. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek 28 March 2020 21: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Dmitriy444
      How interesting. In our country, there have never been such cases. All are crystal honest.

      they write about you !!! wassat laughing
  6. Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 March 2020 08: 00 New
    +5
    The manager’s time machine, by mistake, moved back, not to the future. Here, and bought machines in the past! They say that the Ukrainian time machines are not being taken to the future, since this lack of future had no future. ...
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 28 March 2020 08: 10 New
    +8
    revealed a waste of public funds allocated for the organization of the production of cartridges, urgent need in which the country's armed forces are experiencing.
    Fewer rounds - fewer deaths. And this country is in need of a good thrashing, and for a long time so much so that it is remembered for the rest of its life.
  8. Barakuda
    Barakuda 28 March 2020 08: 16 New
    +9
    Outdated, technically defective and non-contractual equipment was imported. Most of the imported machines were made in the 20s of the last century.

    Has anyone surprised this ..? If yes, then ask these

    This "surprise" is not the last one on the outskirts .. The virus will still be welded, Mom, don't worry ..
  9. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 28 March 2020 08: 17 New
    0
    In December 2018, the commissioning of the first production line was announced.

    The enterprise is equipped with modern high-tech equipment.

    Another peremoga took shape in the next ganba and zrada. The usual thing.
    It would be worth talking about ... request
  10. Vladimir
    Vladimir 28 March 2020 09: 05 New
    +4
    Damn, in this situation, you involuntarily remember Stalin.
  11. BAI
    BAI 28 March 2020 09: 12 New
    +2
    As a result, the means of production have a high degree of amortization and are not suitable for the production of cartridges of the required caliber.

    And it is right! Keep it up.
  12. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 28 March 2020 09: 58 New
    +1
    Does the ammunition on these machines produce high-quality? If so, what's the difference? They knew how to do it before.
  13. Professor
    Professor 28 March 2020 10: 39 New
    +8
    However, in the photo material and video frames of the SBU, machine tools of the German company FRITZ WERNER of an outdated design are guessed. It has been operating since 1896 and, over a long period of activity, managed to supply equipment to many clients, including the Soviet government during the period of industrialization of the USSR, which took place in the 1920s and 1930s.

    At the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant in the 1980s, Krupp machines from 1905 stood. They bent sheet hire for aircraft carriers. Nobody complained...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2020 10: 53 New
      +3
      These machines in the USSR were in bulk and everyone worked until the collapse, and some continue to work to this day.
  14. Xenofont
    Xenofont 28 March 2020 10: 57 New
    +4
    I directly admire how the Vinnytsia Delawares work, not being afraid or embarrassed. Here is a real "patriotic" sharovar "patriots". This should be welcomed by the current, because how much evil they would have done to the people of the LPR, if they were able to establish production.
  15. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 28 March 2020 11: 43 New
    +4
    Why didn’t they want to understand?

    A cartridge of 7,62 * 54 which for example uses SVD and a PC of the 1908 model, so the machines of the 20s and 30s are just that.

    I hope the disruption of cartridge production is not a mistake of Ukraine, but the merit of our special services))). I would like to believe that the FSB, not only in Galeki, can ride and cover business and crime.
  16. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 28 March 2020 12: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Polymer
    We bought them, of course, at the price of scrap metal. Sawing the budget is indestructible, and not only in Ukraine.
    On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.


    CNC machines are indispensable in another matter. And for simple operations, simple automata are better.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 28 March 2020 12: 20 New
      +1
      This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 28 March 2020 14: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Ros 56
        This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?

        Rather, a small locomotive. request Look at the dimensions of the mounting screws on the cutter. He’s not so huge.
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 28 March 2020 14: 52 New
          +1
          C'mon, it's the size of this locomotive. negative
          1. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 28 March 2020 15: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Ros 56
            C'mon, it's the size of this locomotive. negative

            On the screen saver, the product is one, and the manufacturing technology presented is another, I meant it. hi The error came out, went too far.
      2. Motorist
        Motorist 28 March 2020 16: 39 New
        +3
        The one on the tap is possible; cylinder diameter 40-50 cm, judging by the short piston stroke - something 4-stroke, 8 cylinders, power up to 10 MW.
      3. Motorist
        Motorist 28 March 2020 20: 10 New
        +3
        But on the screen saver - already 2-stroke. The diameter is probably 90 cm, the stroke is under 4 meters, 7 cylinders, 80 megawatts ...
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 March 2020 12: 18 New
    +1
    Did someone expect something different from banderlogs? I am surprised at you.
  18. Fishery
    Fishery 28 March 2020 12: 49 New
    +1
    I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 28 March 2020 14: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: Tonya
      I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))

      Judging by the photo in the title, cartridges for the Mosin three-ruler and 7,62 × 54 caliber machine guns of the 1908 model. They still work.
      1. Fishery
        Fishery 28 March 2020 14: 47 New
        +1
        well, it uses dshk and even maxims .... and above they already answered - it’s completely suitable equipment
        I quote-Patron 7,62 * 54 which, for example, uses SVD and PC model 1908, so that the machines of the 20s and 30s are just that.
  19. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 28 March 2020 13: 24 New
    0
    Again the "orphans" were deceived ....
    All classic ...
  20. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 28 March 2020 14: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: Tonya
    I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))

    Older than cartridges, of course, the wheel. Older than the wheel is fire. And you do not refuse them? I wonder why?
  21. Victor March 47
    Victor March 47 28 March 2020 14: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Ros 56
    This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?

    This is for those who howl about the loss of Soviet potential in mechanical engineering, and about the need to restore it all tomorrow. There was no such thing and we cannot restore it. For to restore is to revive what was. Need to create from the beginning. Wading through sanctions and lack of funds.
  22. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 29 March 2020 09: 46 New
    +1
    Zrada overload!))))
  23. vvp2412
    vvp2412 29 March 2020 11: 57 New
    +1
    the main thing is not to disturb the Selyuk!
  24. Vadim777
    Vadim777 29 March 2020 19: 14 New
    -3
    I wonder what museum they refused them in. Although it’s not better here, in some places the captured German ones still work
  25. Jarserge
    Jarserge 30 March 2020 07: 34 New
    0
    So there several years annually money was allocated for the construction of a cartridge factory. If someone doesn’t understand, then every year the amount to the factory is fully