Machine tools a century ago: what equipped the cartridge plant in Ukraine

The Security Service of Ukraine revealed the embezzlement of public funds allocated for the organization of the production of cartridges, the urgent need of which is experienced by the country's armed forces.

An unnamed NGO brought in from abroad the machinery necessary for the creation of production.

Outdated, technically defective and non-contractual equipment was imported. Most of the imported machines were made in the 20s of the last century.

- says the official statement of the SBU.

As a result, the means of production have a high degree of amortization and are not suitable for the production of cartridges of the required caliber. A criminal case has been opened.

Apparently, we are talking about the state-owned NGO Fort, located in Vinnitsa. In December 2018, the commissioning of the first production line was announced. This event was given great importance in connection with the loss in 2014 of the capacities located in the Donbas, which produced for the law enforcement agencies the independent rifle and artillery ammunition.

The enterprise is equipped with modern high-tech equipment.

- says the NGO website.

However, in the photo material and video frames of the SBU, machine tools of the German company FRITZ WERNER of an outdated design are guessed. It has been operating since 1896 and, over a long period of activity, managed to supply equipment to many clients, including the Soviet government during the period of industrialization of the USSR, which took place in the 1920s and 1930s. Most likely, it is these machines of a hundred years ago that were discovered by the SBU at the site of the "modern" cartridge production.

Assortment of cartridges produced by NPO Fort

Comments

[Mavrikiy]

FRITZ WERNER obsolete design. It has been operating since 1896 and for a long time of activity managed to supply equipment to many customers.

Shaw pester? The country is undergoing desovetization, to establish rotary lines of Koshkin 40-80gg. religion does not allow.

[Alex Nevs]

And then the money appeared at the valtsman.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Alex Nevs

And then the money appeared at the valtsman.

And these:

[barakuda]

Quote: Alex Nevs

And then the money appeared at the valtsman.

He increased his capital several times and hurt others.
Under the slogan Ukraine ce Europe .... And Russia is to blame for everything.

[Olgovich]

Quote from Barakuda

Several times increased his capital and others unhurt

And after all, everyone knows that everyone is stealing, but no one is afraid and continue to steal

[TermNachTer]

Why are they afraid? Of the high-ranking thieves who committed theft in especially large sizes, not one is still sitting. And it’s unlikely to sit down. Only criminal cases, but given the venality of the judges, the result is already known.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: TermNachTER

Why are they afraid? Of the high-ranking thieves who committed theft in especially large sizes, not one is still sitting. And it’s unlikely to sit down. Only criminal cases, but given the venality of the judges, the result is already known.

while the Maidan is not recognized as a crime, they will not be able to plant anyone !!!

[TermNachTer]

Whoever planted him, he is a monument.

[PalBor]

None. He oversaw procurement and opened the Avakov line. $ 1,7 million was spent on securities. For Arsen Borisovich, of course, a trifle, but a hen on the grain ...

[TermNachTer]

1.7 lyama is not even funny. Backpacks on French helicopters earned 20 times more.

[PalBor]

Well, yes ... In total, approx. 70 million hryvnias, then this is approx. $ 3 million. Maybe Avakov gave some sort of libel, like the director of a plant. In general, a penny saves a hryvnia ... or a hryvnia ...

[TermNachTer]

Actually, Vinnitsa is the estate of Parashenko, although everything can be.

[PalBor]

May be. Of course, I don’t know for sure, I only transmit what I found on the network. However, at the opening, Mr. Minister.

[TermNachTer]

Well, Ryukzakov may well be there, since the plant is run by the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I especially liked the creation of the "new Fort pistol", chambered for the old 9mm cartridge. Makarova

[PalBor]

Including there, 9 to 18 are also doing. Why Ryukzakov? Something I missed.

[TermNachTer]

This was driven to him in honor of the party of backpacks, which were purchased for the National Guard, through the firm of his son. PM cartridges are made there, but what is the point of these cartridges when the whole world has already switched to highly pulsed ones.

[PalBor]

Well yes. Thank you, I remembered it was the case)))

[Insurgent]

Quote: Mavrikiy

religion does not allow

Surround, and do not blaspheme the gods of the great Maydaun!

Tse use, schob zrada ne bulo! Salam Ukraine! Maidan akbar!

[113262a]

Koshkin's lines produced our plant by him. Lugansk. And SKTB on them, it was here. Alas, there is no plant, no brains. There was a line, or rather two! Everything is sad.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: 113262

Alas, there is no plant, no brains.

My neighbor, led by Koshkin, worked. He died a year and a half ago, receiving a disability pension of 5 thousand. He was not cured in the hospital.

[113262a]

Our factory worldwide has supplied lines. Rotary conveyor. The institute supplied personnel. . In the mid-90s, everything was covered.

[Insurgent]

Quote: 113262

Koshkin's lines produced our plant by him. Lugansk. And SKTB on them, it was here. Alas, there is no plant, no brains.

They say that the plant was contracted before the war, with the active participation of the "regional" Efremov.

Can you add something about this?

[113262a]

But without Efremov and others like him, nothing disappeared! And diesel, and Lisichansk soda, and Nitrogen, and much more! Although, the crankshaft plant 20 years of October was cut by a Tymoshenko from Donetsk! Only in Lugansk there were 11 large factories. Now, not a single one! Stupidly in scrap!

[Insurgent]

Quote: 113262

But without Efremov and others like him, nothing disappeared! And diesel, and Lisichansk soda, and Nitrogen, and much more!

I am from the DPR, and we have a lot, a lot of cut. But not all. Such a revelry as you did not have.
Apparently thanks to the ahmetka, who wanted to pick up "tasty pieces" for himself, and prevented other "parthegennosses" from grabbing them.

Thanks for the reply.

[113262a]

Efremovschina-and he-NE GAM, and OTHER NE DAM! The mind to support production was not enough, just cut it!

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

What they won’t do, they will plunder and steal everything from the farms. Raguli psychology. That's that.

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

What they won’t do, they will plunder and steal everything from the farms. Raguli psychology. That's that.

and thank God!!!

[BARKHAN]

The time will come again, they will be called brothers, they will climb to hug, they will look into the eyes. Factories will want to.

[Pereira]

How much money was given, such is the quality.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Pereira

How much money was given, such quality

No, no, no ... Obviously you can’t imagine the corruption and theft of ukrovinovnikov.
Especially these qualities are manifested now, when they begin to feel M over Ukrainian.

[Polymer]

We bought them, of course, at the price of scrap metal. Sawing the budget is indestructible, and not only in Ukraine.
On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.

[barakuda]

Quote: Polymer

On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.

Trying to justify this scam? Actually, Ukraine was on an industrial level at the level of European countries and also in armaments .. Where is Oksanka all the money?

[Polymer]

Quote from Barakuda

Trying to justify this scam?

Not at all. The scam here is only in the fact that it was announced the acquisition of modern machines, the appropriate funds for this were laid down and, most likely, sawn. And I do not condone this.
I'm only talking about the equipment itself - it will still rivet cartridges, despite its venerable age. Just stating a fact as a techie.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Polymer

I'm only talking about the equipment itself - it will still rivet cartridges, despite its venerable age. Just stating a fact as a techie.

I do not agree. As a techie, you must understand that technology is not only the movement of material, in our case, blame-blame, but also the provision of tolerances, and equipment with a century of experience will not provide this. Replace at least all guide bushings, rolling pins, skids and bearings in addition. Led construction from stress, gouging joints, etc., etc. ...........

[Polymer]

Quote: Mavrikiy

and equipment with a century of experience will not provide

Why not? A new stamp also works great on an old press if this press is capable of delivering the necessary effort. And the latter is just provided by replacing bushings, seals, bearings, etc. So that everything will work as it should.

[cat Rusich]

"... replacement of bushings, seals, bearings, etc. ..." - it's easier to buy a new press, the old press works crookedly and breaks the stamps (bushings, columns pull out, lifts up, the stamp gets jammed - you can't open it) when the guide is worn out. My father told me at the first plant where he worked, all the grinding machines were tied to a belt drive from a common shaft, which set in motion one engine (not electric, but a piston, with one piston, the diameter of the piston in a human girth, if I remember correctly, they started with the help of a horse), here is an example of pre-war technologies of the 30-40s.

[Polymer]

Quote: cat Rusich

Here is an example of pre-war technology of the 30-40s.

I did not say that ALL equipment of a hundred years ago works perfectly. But in the video for the article you can see that the machines are in good condition.
And I have another example: I personally saw a German trophy machine - a gear shaping machine for cutting bevel gears from Pfeiffer - which still works great.
In the very first comment, I specified - "sometimes".

[beeper]

Up to the end of the 80s, almost without problems and very productively, German milling machines had been working in our tool shop (factory in the South-East of the Ukrainian SSR), obtained, already used in 1937-41, for reparations immediately after the war.
When I had to dismantle the "Germans" (to make room for the installation of a very large, newfangled then "processing center"), then I, as a shop technologist, had a chance to observe their disassembly and cutting "for scrap". And to this day, as I recall (although there have already been many other similar things in front of my eyes over the decades, whole factories were destroyed and wiped off the face of the earth by the privatizers, including our one), my heart bleeds from the "oil painting" of a mediocre destruction of our public property ...
That we, engineers and workers, was very surprised (if I hadn’t seen this brilliant "as new" splendor of the machine tool "filling" with my own eyes, I would not have taken our word for it! ) -all gear wheels, rolling bearings (and bronze sliding bearings too) were "native" -in almost perfect condition, like all the guides of the "milling cutters", as if they had not worked the whole war in Germany, and then, nonstop, everything post-war time in the USSR!
We then, discussing this "phenomenon", came to the general conclusion that the main reasons for such an amazing "preserved" insides of our workshop trophy milling machines are that they were competently designed, the kinematic chains and the strength of the parts were optimally calculated, the probable workers were taken into account as much as possible loads, an effective lubrication system and "delivery links (protection against working overload and" from the actions of a fool ")" in the feeding mechanisms are provided, high-quality materials are used for the manufacture of parts, components and parts, their shaping, finishing and heat treatment, as well as their coupling , landing and adjustment ....
An important factor we considered was the increased technical literacy, diligence and labor experience of machine tool workers (the best factory machine operators were traditionally selected in the tool shop! There were plenty to choose from!) And our workshop repairmen.
But those German machines were very good and could still serve and serve people, if not for the perestroika and post-perestroika cataclysms! Until now, I continue to be amazed at the "non-commercial" thinking of the then partocrats, who easily sent "under the cutter" and "into scrap" decommissioned, but perfectly working, serviceable factory machines and tools instead of at affordable prices (and even though "at the price of scrap metal" !) sell them to their own population, or, if they really fought against the "individual farmers", then at least to garage cooperatives or state farms-collective farms for the repair of various equipment .... how much of our people's money and opportunities for "deficit-free" satisfaction of the needs of the population was thus mismanaged ruined ??!

[Dmitriy444]

How interesting. In our country, there have never been such cases. All are crystal honest.

[Korax71]

Oh this is your sarcasm

[serg.shishkov2015]

The case is MUCH smaller, but from the same opera, my office sent medical masks overdue for several years!

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: Dmitriy444

How interesting. In our country, there have never been such cases. All are crystal honest.

they write about you !!!

[Thrifty]

The manager’s time machine, by mistake, moved back, not to the future. Here, and bought machines in the past! They say that the Ukrainian time machines are not being taken to the future, since this lack of future had no future. ...

[rotmistr60]

revealed a waste of public funds allocated for the organization of the production of cartridges, urgent need in which the country's armed forces are experiencing.

Fewer rounds - fewer deaths. And this country is in need of a good thrashing, and for a long time so much so that it is remembered for the rest of its life.

[barakuda]

Outdated, technically defective and non-contractual equipment was imported. Most of the imported machines were made in the 20s of the last century.

Has anyone surprised this ..? If yes, then ask these

This "surprise" is not the last one on the outskirts .. The virus will still be welded, Mom, don't worry ..

[Vasyan1971]

In December 2018, the commissioning of the first production line was announced.

The enterprise is equipped with modern high-tech equipment.

Another peremoga took shape in the next ganba and zrada. The usual thing.
It would be worth talking about ...

[Vladimir]

Damn, in this situation, you involuntarily remember Stalin.

[BAI]

As a result, the means of production have a high degree of amortization and are not suitable for the production of cartridges of the required caliber.

And it is right! Keep it up.

[75 Sergey]

Does the ammunition on these machines produce high-quality? If so, what's the difference? They knew how to do it before.

[Professor]

However, in the photo material and video frames of the SBU, machine tools of the German company FRITZ WERNER of an outdated design are guessed. It has been operating since 1896 and, over a long period of activity, managed to supply equipment to many clients, including the Soviet government during the period of industrialization of the USSR, which took place in the 1920s and 1930s.

At the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant in the 1980s, Krupp machines from 1905 stood. They bent sheet hire for aircraft carriers. Nobody complained...

[Vadim237]

These machines in the USSR were in bulk and everyone worked until the collapse, and some continue to work to this day.

[Xenofont]

I directly admire how the Vinnytsia Delawares work, not being afraid or embarrassed. Here is a real "patriotic" sharovar "patriots". This should be welcomed by the current, because how much evil they would have done to the people of the LPR, if they were able to establish production.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Why didn’t they want to understand?

A cartridge of 7,62 * 54 which for example uses SVD and a PC of the 1908 model, so the machines of the 20s and 30s are just that.

I hope the disruption of cartridge production is not a mistake of Ukraine, but the merit of our special services))). I would like to believe that the FSB, not only in Galeki, can ride and cover business and crime.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Polymer

We bought them, of course, at the price of scrap metal. Sawing the budget is indestructible, and not only in Ukraine.
On the other hand, the good old mechanical machine (machine, in the sense) is often more effective than modern CNC machines. It is difficult to readjust it to another product, but this is not required in mass production.

CNC machines are indispensable in another matter. And for simple operations, simple automata are better.

[Ros 56]

This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Ros 56

This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?

Rather, a small locomotive. Look at the dimensions of the mounting screws on the cutter. He’s not so huge.

[Ros 56]

C'mon, it's the size of this locomotive.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Ros 56

C'mon, it's the size of this locomotive.

On the screen saver, the product is one, and the manufacturing technology presented is another, I meant it. The error came out, went too far.

[Motorist]

The one on the tap is possible; cylinder diameter 40-50 cm, judging by the short piston stroke - something 4-stroke, 8 cylinders, power up to 10 MW.

[Motorist]

But on the screen saver - already 2-stroke. The diameter is probably 90 cm, the stroke is under 4 meters, 7 cylinders, 80 megawatts ...

[Ros 56]

Did someone expect something different from banderlogs? I am surprised at you.

[Fishery]

I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))

[Piramidon]

Quote: Tonya

I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))

Judging by the photo in the title, cartridges for the Mosin three-ruler and 7,62 × 54 caliber machine guns of the 1908 model. They still work.

[Fishery]

well, it uses dshk and even maxims .... and above they already answered - it’s completely suitable equipment
I quote-Patron 7,62 * 54 which, for example, uses SVD and PC model 1908, so that the machines of the 20s and 30s are just that.

[Lara Croft]

Again the "orphans" were deceived ....
All classic ...

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Tonya

I'm not an expert of course)) but I think the cartridges are also not the first freshness) in the sense of design)))

Older than cartridges, of course, the wheel. Older than the wheel is fire. And you do not refuse them? I wonder why?

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Ros 56

This is where such a huge crankshaft, no way on a large ship?

This is for those who howl about the loss of Soviet potential in mechanical engineering, and about the need to restore it all tomorrow. There was no such thing and we cannot restore it. For to restore is to revive what was. Need to create from the beginning. Wading through sanctions and lack of funds.

[Lexa-149]

Zrada overload!))))

[vvp2412]

the main thing is not to disturb the Selyuk!

[Vadim777]

I wonder what museum they refused them in. Although it’s not better here, in some places the captured German ones still work

[Jarserge]

So there several years annually money was allocated for the construction of a cartridge factory. If someone doesn’t understand, then every year the amount to the factory is fully