Military Review

The National Interest, and what do you actually want?

101

Sebastien Roblin from our adorable The National Interest in fact jumped above his head in his material This Is How 19 Russia Aircraft Were Shot Down In Syria In 4 Years.


No, it’s a really good article, for an American it’s a masterpiece in general.

Roblen collected statistics honestly, made conclusions from the heart. However, as in any such material, there is a devil who sits in inter-line nuances.

According to the author, the loss of Russian VKS and the sea aviation in some cases, they indicate a lack of experience in expeditionary operations, as well as problems with the reliability of equipment.

It’s hard to disagree with the first. Indeed, Russia does not pretend to be the world gendarme; accordingly, it is constantly waging war and with no one, and it makes no sense.

Yes, our losses can be interpreted in different ways. On the one hand, 4 planes and helicopters were lost in 19 years, on the other ... We will look from the other.

So, on the one hand, five years of VKS strikes in Syria led to the fact that Assad retained power, very much crowded out the opposing troops (I can’t say for sure who opposes him) the enemy, and in general, everyone recognizes the role of the VKS in this. And sympathizers, and watchers, and to whom flew from heaven.


And during this operation, from 2015 to 2018, the Russian Air Force lost 19 cars, 11 helicopters and 8 aircraft, which led to the death of 23 crew members and 37 military personnel on board.

For comparison: in the period from 2014 to 2020, the U.S. military lost two aircraft: the F-16 fighter in 2016 because of what happened immediately after the accident took off, as well as the V-22 tilt plane, which it crashed during landing in 2017.

I want to applaud, right? Wow, what experienced Americans know how, you know, without loss ...

Okay, we will come back to this a bit later, let's see who, when and how. Honestly and unvarnished.

1. Su-24M, shot down by a rocket from the Turkish F-16 during a 17-second (!!!) violation of Turkish airspace.

As you wish, but I refuse to consider this loss as a battle. This was not a fight, Russia did not fight with Turkey, there were many interpretations of this incident, I personally go through it like a shot in the back.

2. Mi-8AMT. Three hours after the Turks treacherously shot down the Su-24M, two Mi-8AMT helicopters took off from their base to conduct search and rescue operations and rescue the surviving crew members of the downed bomber.

A missile launched from the ground hit the Mi-8, and as a result one of our marines died, and the helicopter made an emergency landing. The helicopter crew and its passengers were able to leave the landing site, and the helicopter itself was then destroyed by a missile launched by the rebels from the TOW anti-tank missile system.

Combat loss? Battle.

3. Mi-35M. On July 8, 2016, the Russian Mi-35M helicopter got hit in the tail compartment, after which it began to rotate and fell to the ground.

Combat loss.

4. Mi-35M. November 2016 The Mi-35M helicopter made an emergency landing, receiving damage from fire from the ground. The Mi-8 helicopter landed a few meters from the Mi-35M and was able to evacuate its crew under enemy fire. Just a few seconds after the take-off of the Mi-8 helicopter, an explosion occurred that destroyed the helicopter that made the emergency landing.

Combat loss.

5. Mi-8AMT. Shot down by fire from the ground on August 1, 2016, when he was returning after a transport operation.

Combat loss.

6. Su-25SM. On February 3, 2018, the Igla MANPADS missile was shot down by a Su-25SM.

Combat loss.

7. Ka-52. On May 7, 2018, a Ka-52 was shot down by a MANPADS missile.

Combat loss.

Move on. And then our losses are not quite combat, but from this no less unpleasant.

8. IL-20. On September 17, 2018, the Syrian anti-aircraft missile system shot down the Russian reconnaissance aircraft Il-20M over the Mediterranean Sea.

9. Mi-28N. On April 12, 2016, the Mi-28N Night Hunter helicopter crashed to the ground at night. As a result, the commander of the 55th helicopter regiment and his navigator were killed. The reason was the mistake of the crew piloting the car using helmet-mounted night vision devices.

10. Mi-35. On December 31, 2017, the Mi-35, while escorting the convoy, hit the wires of the high-voltage line and fell to the ground. Two out of three people on board died.

11. Su-30SM. On May 3, 2018, the Su-30SM fighter immediately after takeoff in Latakia fell into the Mediterranean Sea. As a result of this crash, both pilots died. The Russian Ministry of Defense reported that birds became the cause of the crash of the fighter.

12. Su-24M. On October 16, 2017, the Su-24M rolled out of the runway during the take-off.

13. An-26. On March 6, 2018, the An-26 transport aircraft landed when a powerful gust of wind caused it to bank and lose control. The plane crashed to the ground 500 meters from the runway. All 33 soldiers on board and 6 crew members were killed.

14. MiG-29KUB. On November 14, 2016, the MiG-29KUB aircraft from the Admiral Kuznetsov TAVKR air group, in anticipation of the repair of the air finisher, exhausted all fuel and fell into the sea.

15. Su-33. On December 3, 2016, the Su-33 aircraft crashed into the sea due to the breakage of the aerofinisher cable.

16. The American magazine does not give the losses of the Russian air forces as a result of shelling by militants, but if you use a calculator, according to our list and The National Interest data, our air force lost 4 more helicopters from shelling of militants.

As evidence, Roblin speaks (but does not cite) about some satellite images that show burnt helicopters. Words words…

Yes, how can one refrain from caustic remarks towards the Ministry of Defense? No way. Roblin doesn’t hold back

“Russian sources never report their losses, but in the photographs taken from satellites you can see the burned-out remains of helicopters. As a rule, the militants of the “Islamic State” are accused of shelling, although Cooper says that Russian technicians were the first to open fire. ”

Well, yes, of course, Russian technicians are such animals that they discover mortar crews of militants on the way and are the first to open fire.

Well, that's the lyrics. Yes, our Defense Ministry has repeatedly been convicted of a distortion of facts, and often the representatives of the Russian Defense Ministry generally fall to very ugly things, but who should be judged?

Meanwhile, Mr. Roblin himself, to put it mildly, is cunning about the four helicopters allegedly destroyed by the militants. Unproven and rather unprincipled.

So what do we have? And we have not 19, but 15 lost cars. 8 aircraft and 7 helicopters.

Combat losses: 1 aircraft and 5 helicopters.

Non-combat losses: 2 aircraft. The first because of the meanness of the Turkish side, the second because of the curvature of the Syrian air defense calculations.

For technical reasons: 4 aircraft and 3 helicopters.

And now the fun begins. We ask a question: how many flew?

The Russian side gives the figure of 39000 sorties. American sources are very dark, but managed to find a figure of 4100 sorties. That is, in fact, 10 times less than the videoconferencing group.

And now, if we take 15 lost cars by the Russian side and 2 by the American side, then we get, oddly enough, complete parity. For 10 Russian flights, there was one American. There are 1 Russian cars per 7,5 American car lost in these sorties.

And if we immediately take into account one fact that is unpleasant for the Americans, that their planes worked from decent heights, and the Russian helicopters were both front-line machines, they fought on it, the conclusion, as they say, is not very pleasant.

For the Americans.

The actions of the Russian VKS group were much more fruitful than the slurred American swarming since 2014.

The National Interest, and what do you actually want?

Yes, the number of losses for technical reasons allows us to conclude that everything is sad in naval aviation. However, what is naval aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces? Two regiments of which the wing is composed for the only Navy aircraft carrier ship.

Many? Yes, nothing at all. And yes, the loss of two planes is very ugly. And 450 sorties of naval aviation from land airfields after the disgrace at Kuznetsovo are a drop in the bucket in comparison with the work of land pilots.

But put a “tick”. This is about participating in hostilities.

Roblin believes that

“Some combat losses could have been avoided if the VKS had more precision weapons and reconnaissance drones, which would make it possible to quickly determine targets and safely attack them from a great height. "

Defining a target and attacking it from a great height does not mean “successfully hit”. And the pilots of American aviation more than once demonstrated their ability to smash a slightly different object that had to be destroyed. Alas, it is also supported by facts and signed by blood.

Yes, I agree that as soon as the terrorists had modern MANPADS (I wonder who sent them?), The NATO Allied Air Force began to work from unattainable heights, thereby protecting themselves from missile systems. But what about accuracy and efficiency?

And nothing.

While Russian helicopters and Su-25 attack aircraft plowed the front line of terrorists, the Americans and the French tried to get somewhere from an altitude of 8-10 thousand meters.

But it’s safe.

And then even the American admits that

“In the period from 2016 to 2017, Russian helicopters and aircraft provided air support at low altitudes to the Syrian ground forces, especially during the fierce battles for Palmyra. While the buildings of hospitals, schools and bakeries were convenient targets for bombing from high altitudes, close air support required Russian pilots - especially helicopter pilots - to fly at low altitude and be able to hit all sorts of targets and moving vehicles means with the help of unguided missiles, as well as with guns, despite the risk of falling under fire from anti-aircraft missile systems. ”

A wonderful division of labor, right? That is, the planes of NATO countries from safe heights bombed hospitals, schools and bakeries, which seemingly (according to intelligence) were used by terrorists, and Russian pilots walked over gangsters from their heads and from low altitudes burned everything that fell into sight.

Mr. Roblin says a lack of professionalism? Seriously?

I apologize, but this is not about preserving the equipment, but about destroying the enemy. And here, as it were, the ideas of maximally preserving planes and helicopters simply fade into the background.

Of course, to destroy the enemy and save their cars and especially crews is a difficult task for commanders of all levels.

Especially if the enemy does not want to be destroyed and renders resistance.

And here you can talk as much as you like about the advantage of the US Air Force in terms of equipping with ultra-high-precision ammunition, drones, the ability of American pilots from a height of 10000 meters to get into a jeep with a machine gun ...

You can talk about everything for a long time and colorfully.

And in fact, 40000 (now probably more) sorties by Russian pilots really provided the Syrian army with such an advantage that it simply could not dream of.

To do this, just look at the map of the confrontation between Syria and terrorists before our VKS intervened in the matter. And immediately everything will fall into place.

The National Interest guys have the right to analyze anything. And criticize strangers while praising their own. But everything must be done honestly.

At least not to look ridiculous.
Author:
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  1. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 27 March 2020 15: 12 New
    38
    I completely agree that our VKS are really at war with the barmaley, unlike the ones who have one principle, "scorched earth".
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 27 March 2020 15: 54 New
        21
        Quote: Mustache Peskov
        If others are fighting without loss, then everyone is doing wrong!

        It depends on which side to look
        The "increase the distance for safety" method reduces its losses and greatly increases the "collateral" losses
      2. Machito
        Machito 27 March 2020 15: 59 New
        11
        The losses of the US Air Force as a result of aviation accidents are much higher than in Russia, both in absolute and in relative terms.
        1. maidan.izrailovich
          maidan.izrailovich 28 March 2020 06: 57 New
          0
          The loss of the US Air Force as a result of aviation accidents is much higher than Russian ....

          That's right. And an order of magnitude.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 30 March 2020 10: 27 New
            -1
            I understand that mathematics was not taught, but "by an order of magnitude" is 10 times. Modern planes do not fight very often.
      3. Dimmedroll
        Dimmedroll 27 March 2020 19: 01 New
        -5
        Not everything is so rosy, people just do not fight, but rob.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 28 March 2020 06: 26 New
        26
        Quote: Mustache Peskov
        Even the war in which Russia is involved has no analogues in the world! If others are fighting without loss, then everyone is doing wrong! It is necessary to rush under the embrasures, and they cherish people. Disorder

        People like you, a citizen, never rushed under tanks. They did not cover the embrasure of the enemy bunker with their breasts. They did not remain silent under torture during interrogations.
        People like you always slept softly and ate sweetly.
        The foremost preferred the deep rear and well-fed nap in the warehouse.
        Miserable protoplasm.
        Continue to ride on the Maidan. The time has come.
        Do not forget to put a pan on your head ... angry
        1. Varaga
          Varaga 29 March 2020 16: 34 New
          +1
          In a nutshell, they expressed my whole life position regarding "these". I subscribe to every word.
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 27 March 2020 17: 33 New
      +7
      Norms Roman, I agree with the "investigation". Our equipment is the most reliable. I shake hands with the builders.
    3. smart ass
      smart ass 28 March 2020 10: 34 New
      +3
      Losses are counted as the number shot down by the number of sorties
    4. max702
      max702 30 March 2020 10: 37 New
      0
      Here it is necessary to compare statistics, for example, with the same Afghanistan .. That is, the number of flight accidents per number of sorties .. It seems to me that things are better in the Syrian company compared to the Afghan one ..
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 27 March 2020 15: 13 New
    14
    [B]
    The National Interest guys have the right to analyze anything. And criticize strangers while praising their own. But everything must be done honestly, although in order not to look ridiculous. [
    /bapter...It is according to FIG these guys .. They received an order, they completed it, they threw mud, they threw it .. They got money ... Business, nothing personal .. laughing
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 27 March 2020 15: 55 New
        32
        Quote: Mustache Peskov
        And that the military of the Russian Federation in Syria are fighting for free?

        Do you post for free?
        And then I look, you do not have time to read other people's posts properly ...
        1. avdkrd
          avdkrd 28 March 2020 06: 10 New
          0
          Interested in your post. I was also interested in the quantity +. Not about anything, but important. Of course, servicemen of the RF Armed Forces receive a monetary allowance in accordance with the risks. Is this surprising? What, then, is the "raw" truth?
          Your nickname is not correct. Peskov mustache, it’s immoral. Here x ... r., This is the cashier.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 March 2020 09: 25 New
            +5
            Quote: avdkrd
            Interested in your post. Still interested in the number +. It seems nothing, but it’s important

            Do you have problems reading other people's posts?
            The author with the nickname "parusnik" writes about the journalists of The National Interest. Which in his opinion are paid biased
            The troll replied, "Why are the Russian military in Syria fighting for free?"

            Do you realize that the first and the second weakly overlap?
            Just the troll stupidly did not really read the post under which he hastened to slap his own.


            Quote: avdkrd
            Of course, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation receive cash allowance in accordance with the risks. Does this surprise you?

            Uh ... Decided to continue the work of a fallen colleague?
      2. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold 27 March 2020 23: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: Mustache Peskov
        And that the military of the Russian Federation in Syria are fighting for free?

        Well, certainly not for the houses of local residents, like your unfinished warriors in the Donbass. laughing
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 27 March 2020 16: 16 New
          14
          Petya, everything is clear, the kirdyk is complete, we have nothing to talk about.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Incompetent
            Incompetent 28 March 2020 00: 09 New
            -6
            Now imagine that such a Petrukha arrives as a member of the "troika" to you at the age of 33 and says that you are guilty and subject to execution, and you don’t understand what it’s about, but it’s not possible to explain something to such a drawn-out stubborn idiot. just shoot! And then, many years later, on VO or on Puchkov's YouTube channel, an analysis of the topic with an excuse that it was necessary at that time.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 27 March 2020 17: 52 New
      21
      Quote: Petruha1
      What can you want from the head of the department VO Skomorokhov? Only bile against Russia, and very often veiled. But the topic, as always, gives it away!

      That is, you think that Skomorokhov is wrong. But then it turns out that you defend the article he criticized in The National Interest. And who then is Russophobsto and cringing before the West? wink
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 28 March 2020 00: 12 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Quote: Petruha1
        What can you want from the head of the department VO Skomorokhov? Only bile against Russia, and very often veiled. But the topic, as always, gives it away!

        That is, you think that Skomorokhov is wrong. But then it turns out that you defend the article he criticized in The National Interest. And who then is Russophobsto and cringing before the West? wink

        Do not pay attention. Peter has no problems in reading the material, he has problems in comprehending what he read. request
  4. WHAT IS
    WHAT IS 27 March 2020 15: 16 New
    17
    The National Interest is a yellow leaf, the Americans themselves speak of him like that.
    1. knn54
      knn54 27 March 2020 15: 54 New
      +8
      Dear, what do you want- "NATIONAL interest".
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 27 March 2020 17: 55 New
      +9
      Quote: WHAT IS
      The National Interest is a yellow leaf, the Americans themselves speak of him like that.

      Duc ... some articles Dave Raj Kumara Majumdara what are they worth. smile
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 27 March 2020 21: 15 New
        -8
        And you there too.
        First, the magazine NI publishes Dmitry Konstantinovich Simes from Brighton, a great friend including rush people.
        Secondly, under NI articles always I mean the entries on their blog platform, which are the same VO with the same Samsonovs. Only nobody else reads them, except the Russian media.
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 28 March 2020 22: 05 New
          0
          What people don’t like. Why are you Dmitry Konstantinovich Simis so wassat Well, they still forgot about Pushkov, who is in the editorial board. laughing
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 28 March 2020 22: 12 New
            -1
            Quote: Korax71
            Pushkov forgot to mention

            Lord I didn’t know about it.

            Now it’s understandable why all of a sudden this shit has been climbing from everywhere for so many years. As if in America this is the only trash.
            1. Korax71
              Korax71 28 March 2020 22: 42 New
              -2
              As I was informed by intelligence in the person of a comrade, they put the device over such a publication large and thick. They are more interested in state news and the political situation in it, and such an overwhelming majority. I generally feel that N.I. Okromya nobody reads us, well, is Margosha Simonyan (Keosoyan?) periodically copy-paste articles from there, in between writing a script for some new film laughing
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 28 March 2020 22: 52 New
                -1
                Quote: Korax71
                put the device on this kind of publication

                Well, there was no doubt about that. I didn’t have an understanding of why NI became the cult Russian magazine, there are NI like shoe polish at the shoe factory. Now it’s clear, thanks.
                1. Liam
                  Liam 28 March 2020 23: 05 New
                  0
                  Now it remains to understand which of the Russian beau monde is a junior editor at SOHU
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 28 March 2020 23: 12 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Liam
                    Associate Editor at SOHU

                    I don’t speak Chinese, but I won’t be surprised if I mean some kind of Yandex Zen.
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 28 March 2020 23: 25 New
                      0
                      Nothing is clear under the moon
                      https://www.google.com/amp/s/versia.ru/amp/kak-rossijskij-xaker-viktor-kox-razvil-v-sebe-finansovye-sverxsposobnosti
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 28 March 2020 23: 41 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Nothing is clear under the moon

                        Hm. Interesting stock, thanks.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 30 March 2020 18: 26 New
          0
          Quote: Octopus
          Firstly, NI magazine is published by Dmitry Konstantinovich Simes from Brighton, a great friend including Russian people.

          I am still aware of Simes, Pushkov, as well as Kissinger and the Nixon Center. wink
  5. Altona
    Altona 27 March 2020 15: 31 New
    +8
    From the publication is usually required not an objective analysis, but one that is paid. Actually, with such an amendment, one or another publication should be read.
  6. Sayan
    Sayan 27 March 2020 15: 43 New
    +5
    Roma, what are you, whom are you calling for honesty, national interest? - surprised so surprised
  7. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 27 March 2020 15: 45 New
    +4
    The Russian side gives the figure of 39000 sorties. American sources are very dark, but managed to find a figure of 4100 sorties. That is, in fact, 10 times less than the videoconferencing group.
    Roman, please give me a link to the Amer source. I have other data.
  8. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 27 March 2020 15: 52 New
    +5
    I’m wondering, the editorial board of VO constantly cites various articles by well-known foreign magazines, the authors of which, from their bell tower, are trying to analyze the events of a military or economic nature, the objectivity of which (not all of course), to put it mildly, causes slight bewilderment. I don’t need it, but our authors, who expose such grief of analysts, print in foreign publications, or all their activity ends on internal Internet resources.
  9. Lopatov
    Lopatov 27 March 2020 16: 16 New
    +5
    At NI, of course. bad people are sitting.
    But when we lose a helicopter in a rescue operation 16 years after the almost similar loss in December 1999 .... personally, it really bothers me.

    And so in fact on everything else written ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 27 March 2020 17: 58 New
      +8
      Quote: Spade
      But when we lose a helicopter in a rescue operation 16 years after the almost similar loss in December 1999 .... personally, it really bothers me.

      Or when out of the blue, near the coastal airfield, we lose the MiG-29KUB - simply because the Navy did not want to to wash dirty linen in public with repair of the aerofinisher.
  10. 30143
    30143 27 March 2020 16: 31 New
    +8
    Russia has one task - the defense of its territory, because it is large and rich in resources. Therefore, the tasks are different in comparison with amers. If you poke your nose into all sorts of holes, then they will not be enough for your protection. There are still neighbors and one neighbor to deal with ...
  11. cniza
    cniza 27 March 2020 16: 35 New
    +7
    At least not to look ridiculous.


    And they wanted to be smart ...
  12. Prisoner
    Prisoner 27 March 2020 16: 50 New
    +6
    I read the article and thought why "throw pearls in front of pigs"? We already see and understand. the Americans, pretending to be at war with the igils, fought with the legitimate government of Syria. All this fuss of their aviation is strikes on those terrorists who began to forget who was the boss. Those who remembered got nishtyaks such as medicines, weapons, etc. It turned out it was necessary to throw this same beads. There are different mustache pigs here. Let them read. Moreover, the article is wonderful. Only heavy. Behind every number is our man, our loss.
  13. Andrey Mikhaylov
    Andrey Mikhaylov 27 March 2020 17: 07 New
    +3
    Brevity is the sister of talent. Thank you very much to the author Roman Skomorokhov.
    1. Frol
      Frol 27 March 2020 18: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Mikhaylov
      Brevity is the sister of talent. Thank you very much to the author Roman Skomorokhov.

      Nothing more, essentially short, as in the General Staff report!
  14. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 27 March 2020 17: 26 New
    -3
    If there were Ripper strike UAVs, these losses would decrease by several times ..... The Riper takes on part of the work of attack aircraft where small calibers are needed. And part of the people would simply not perish.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 27 March 2020 18: 03 New
      +5
      Quote: Zaurbek
      If there were Ripper strike UAVs, these losses would decrease by several times ..... The Riper takes on part of the work of attack aircraft where small calibers are needed.

      For shock UAVs, massive cheap URO is needed. If you spend 2-3 million wood for each machine-gun nest or a rusty Toyota with a DShK, then the military budget will quickly end: Imagine that under each UAV you suspend the Land Rover Discovery.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 27 March 2020 18: 07 New
        -1
        Everything can be compared ... ATGMs also stand like a car .... 2 pilots, the cost of flight hours. And here is a soulless device that hangs over the target for 24 hours and automatically scouts and searches for the target.
  15. ximkim
    ximkim 27 March 2020 17: 40 New
    0
    There is no loss for someone who does not fight. And yes .. VKS is training and they haven’t eaten Syria.
    1. really
      really 27 March 2020 19: 22 New
      0
      Unfortunately, you are wrong, there are losses that are not military and sanitary.
  16. Frol
    Frol 27 March 2020 18: 15 New
    +6
    To do this, just look at the map of the confrontation between Syria and terrorists before our VKS intervened in the matter. And immediately everything will fall into place.

    This is the point .. Many have already forgotten what was happening in the BV before the Russian VKS appeared there, etc ... (although the US military was there for a long time and what they were doing there, it is unclear that ISIS has grown to enormous size and already has its own currency started to print and cut heads on the video ...)
    A good analysis Roman, surprised .. Thank you from the heart! hi
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 27 March 2020 20: 13 New
      +3
      "... The US military has been there for a long time ... ISIS has grown to enormous proportions ..." what Why is it incomprehensible? Therefore, the igil grew that these were present there. hi
      1. Frol
        Frol 27 March 2020 21: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: Captive
        Why is it incomprehensible? Therefore, the igil grew that these were there

        And attempts to revive the soaked already for big money continue ..
        Afghan heroin to help the CIA ... negative
        That's how we survive in Syria and Russia !!! There is already a matter of principle. Who is it?
  17. rigoletto2001
    rigoletto2001 27 March 2020 18: 21 New
    -16
    Guys ... the author .... technology has taken a long step forward since the Second World War ..... and the Americans, for their 4100 sorties from safe heights, work for all 39000 sorties of the airborne forces .... the secret is simple — good reconnaissance of targets + guided bombs / rockets.
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 27 March 2020 20: 19 New
      +8
      And have they done a lot with their technologies? What is the effectiveness of their fuss? They disgraced the whole world with their axes, the "patriots", not finding targets, began to return home. In Afghanistan, hospitals were bombed and weddings were shot, in Mosul civilians were crumbled into vinaigrette? Your mattress toppers should be judged as war criminals with their technology.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus 27 March 2020 22: 41 New
        -5
        Quote: Captive
        And they did a lot with their technology?

        By a strange coincidence, all the major cities that were once occupied by the IS forbidden in Russia have been controlled by the Coalition for quite some time. It’s even strange, IG Russia won, how many times, and in Raqqa, the capital of the IG, they did not know anything about this until October last year, when the Turks, the States and the liberating country bargained the Kurdish issue.
        Quote: Captive
        crushed the civilian population?

        It is always very touching when in the Cyrillic segment they worry about the civilian population, especially the Muslim one. Who, in fact, is still worried about them?
        Quote: Captive
        mattresses need to be judged as war criminals with their technology.

        Do it.
        1. Prisoner
          Prisoner 27 March 2020 23: 53 New
          +5
          "Always very touchinglywhen in the Cyrillic segment they are worried about the civilian population, especially the Muslim ... " laughing It’s noticeable that you are touched.
        2. Grigory_78
          Grigory_78 28 March 2020 00: 04 New
          +2
          What are the main cities in Syria controlled by the Coalition? Raqqa, Kamyshli and Manbij? I would say that they are rather under the control of the Kurds. What about Idlib? What to do with Aleppo, Hama, Palmyra, Deir ez-Zora, Daria? Are they also controlled by the Coalition? Or are these not the main cities? Or were they not captured by ISIS?
          Caring for Muslims is of course ... The main goal of the Coalition. Especially considering that for most Americans, thanks to their media, the words "Muslim" and "terrorist" have actually become synonymous.
          To you, the question, in fact, is one - why write such frank nonsense?
          The US war crimes trial is not far off, I think. In a pandemic, the United States is losing power and influence faster, and a dead lion will not only be kicked by the lazy. I hope to see some of the former US allies lining up to kick the former superpower more painfully. Including in attempts to blame the United States for their own sins in the style of "I'm so naive, it's easy to deceive me."
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 28 March 2020 01: 18 New
            -1
            Quote: Gregory_78
            Raqqa, Kamyshli and Manbij? I would say that they are rather under the control of the Kurds.

            And the Kurds were controlled by someone until they were turned over like empty bottles?
            Quote: Gregory_78
            What about Idlib? How to be with Aleppo

            1. What is the relation of all these places to the IG? Or do you have all the IS there, except Assad?
            2. What does the Coalition care about all these places?
            Quote: Gregory_78
            Or were they not captured by ISIS?

            Clear. The questions above are removed.
            Especially pleasing on your list is Deir ez-Zor, where not so long ago, the Americans, with their two flights a day, smacked into some people who are involved in some issues there near the former Conoco-Phillips refinery. Is it ISIS, or was it bombed that time?
            Quote: Gregory_78
            Caring for Muslims is of course

            Well, it's a long line about Muslims to frustrate without the Americans. But here Russia needs to fit in, you are right.
            Quote: Gregory_78
            The trial of US war crimes - I think not far off.

            At VO ships over the US three per day, what to expect.
            Quote: Gregory_78
            I hope to see more

            I’m not going to impose my opinion on you, but I need to set some realistic goals and objectives. I do not know, to survive until the summer, for example.
            1. Liam
              Liam 28 March 2020 01: 31 New
              -1
              Quote: Octopus
              realistic goals

              Read in one thread where ..there is no virus in the ussr

              Fishery
              Yesterday, 10: 05
              +1
              I wonder how many age-old commentators WO will not visit after the pandemic, because everyone thinks that he will not be affected
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 28 March 2020 02: 01 New
                -2
                Vladimir Vladimirovich promised that we all go to heaven. I hope this time does not deceive.
                1. Mikhalych 70
                  Mikhalych 70 29 March 2020 11: 20 New
                  0
                  It’s boring in paradise. All the comrades who have normally lived and served on this earth are now downstairs in the sauna ... And they send the Devils for beer :)
        3. IL-18
          IL-18 29 March 2020 17: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Octopus
          It is always very touching when in the Cyrillic segment they worry about the civilian population, especially the Muslim one. To whom, in fact

          Here! Someone still doubts that psychiatry in the Russian Federation since 1991 has almost been destroyed.
    2. mister-red
      mister-red April 1 2020 00: 19 New
      0
      Somehow, especially the results were not visible there.
  18. svp67
    svp67 27 March 2020 18: 21 New
    +2
    As you wish, but I refuse to consider this loss as a battle.
    Nevertheless, the loss of the BATTLE, at least due to the fact that the plane died during the combat mission ...
  19. Pavel57
    Pavel57 27 March 2020 18: 46 New
    +1
    MiG-29KUB. On November 14, 2016, the MiG-29KUB aircraft from the Admiral Kuznetsov TAVKR air group, in anticipation of the repair of the air finisher, exhausted all fuel and fell into the sea.

    Why didn’t he reach land?
    1. Federal1
      Federal1 28 March 2020 10: 48 New
      -4
      and they have the Darwin Prize, knowing which shit they fly on and why they take off kerosene, so they pour it to the edge .. and then they keep silent in the hellish trousers as partisans, as always. write off this shame Kuzyu and 29 sell to africa this is shame on aviation, an airplane that lost all 50 fights and didn’t bring down anything, one od sofas that if only ... we would have shown b !!! close this shame rivet on this money the norms of the equipment at least the same su 35
  20. Tomich3
    Tomich3 27 March 2020 20: 31 New
    -8
    Well, when for example a brother in zinc is brought to the author, then it’s worth writing about the quantity. I found the first and second Chechen. And he saw mothers rushing to the coffin. When the only son dies, whom they alone raised in the 90s.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. iouris
    iouris 27 March 2020 22: 25 New
    +2
    Both articles do not claim to be scientific, so their authors should have limited themselves to a simple listing of lost aircraft. I believe that the Russian Ministry of Defense should publish its assessments of the effectiveness of military operations and flight safety. Comparing with US data does not make sense. The US does not fight, the Turks, the Israelis do not shoot down US planes. Uncontrolled armed groups controlled by Turkey or the United States, or Qatar, or KSA.
  23. Octopus
    Octopus 27 March 2020 22: 51 New
    +1
    I have a small question for the author regarding arithmetic.

    Do I understand correctly that the VKS group, which, it seems, has never exceeded 50 boards, and since 2017 it seems to be 20-30, has made as many as 40 thousand sorties in 5 years (less since September 5th), that is 25 departures per day on average?

    Do I understand correctly that the coalition that fights there for a year longer than the videoconferencing, and not strikes terrorist headquartersbut real controls by drones the entire eastern part of the country, where ISIS banned in Russia in some noticeable quantities appears exclusively in non-flying weather, achieved this in less than two flights a day?
    1. From Siberia we
      From Siberia we 29 March 2020 06: 27 New
      -2
      Your comment will not be answered or stupidly deleted. There is no logic and mathematics in patriobots
  24. Nameless
    Nameless 28 March 2020 00: 37 New
    -1
    Quote: Petruha1
    Fan-Fan, this kirdyk will come to people like you - the fifth column, however, over time ...

    Something has come of fashion today for such real Pftocolonians as Petruha1: they are trying to expose themselves as true patriots of Russia, and those who really love their country as five-columnists. Those. turn everything upside down. How much it is necessary to be alternatively gifted in order to consider others as such, eh, dear?
  25. Nedokomsomolets
    Nedokomsomolets 28 March 2020 00: 42 New
    0
    Everything is beautiful and correct.
    I propose also to bring into this analysis the real implementation of the real, not declared, tasks. If the Russian Aerospace Forces had the task of providing support for the actions of the Syrian army to free their own territory, then what tasks did the coalition aviation really have?
    Support for whom and what? Destruction of whose objects and what character?
    I propose to supplement this article with these questions and send it to the original author in the National Interest.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 28 March 2020 03: 33 New
    0
    This is the article against which no one will already say that Roman is "escalating again" ...
    It is intelligible, thorough, in fact ... Thank you, Roman! good
    We knew the big picture, and your conclusions gave specifics, highlighted a complete and clear picture.
    Mr. Roblin says a lack of professionalism? Seriously?

    Do not waste beads: these “animals” will always find excuses for everything and excuses for their bestial behavior.
  28. DWG1905
    DWG1905 28 March 2020 03: 52 New
    +1
    In fact, losses are considered to be the number of sorties and all losses during the fighting are military. Losses in aviation, not related to enemy fire (failures, horsepower errors) during hostilities reach up to 50%, here are two lost MiG-29KUB from sailors, and one by stupidity. We’ll drown the plane, but we won’t drop the fleet’s honor. Therefore, the analysis is not correct, you need to know the number of sorties and count separately planes and helicopters. I think the average hospital we are at the global average for this type of armed conflict. It is interesting to compare with Vietnam (before the advent of SAM) and Afghanistan
  29. Maxim Sibirev
    Maxim Sibirev 28 March 2020 06: 14 New
    0
    The author of the article also lies and distorts: among Americans, drones do the main work in the air (and even with ordinary planes they use very expensive bombs and do not drop). And for some reason, the author forgets that the Americans acted primarily in Iraq, and not in Syria
  30. evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 March 2020 06: 35 New
    0
    And what can such analytics give (counting everything and everything).? General information, more precisely info noise.
  31. maidan.izrailovich
    maidan.izrailovich 28 March 2020 06: 54 New
    -2
    For comparison: in the period from 2014 to 2020, the U.S. military lost two aircraft: the F-16 fighter in 2016 because of what happened immediately after the accident took off, as well as the V-22 tilt plane, which it crashed during landing in 2017.

    Have Americans lost just two aircraft since 2014?
    And then who lost it?
    April 5, 2017 at 09:31 F-16C Block 30H (s / n 87-0306; r / n 87306 [224]), assigned to the 121st fighter squadron of the 113th fighter wing US Air Force, crashed 10 kilometers southwest of the Andrews base after losing traction and engine fire on take-off. The pilot safely ejected. The reason was incorrect engine assembly
    June 21, 2017 at 10:30 F-16C Block 42E (s / n 89-2028; r / n 89028 [230]), assigned to the 125th fighter squadron of the 138th fighter wing US Air Force, caught fire on takeoff from the Ellington Field base.
    June 23, 2017 at 12:20 F-16D Block 52D (s / n 91-0466; r / n 91466 [237]), assigned to the demonstration squadron US Air Force "Petrels," rolled over after landing on a wet landing strip.
    April 4, 2018 at 10:30 F-16C Block 52P (s / n 91-0413; r / n 91413 [270]), assigned to the demonstration squadron US Air Force "Petrels," crashed
    April 24, 2018 at 10:35 F-16C Block 42J (s / n 90-0760; r / n 90760 [278]), assigned to the 310th fighter squadron of the 56th fighter wing US Air Forcerolled out of the strip when landing at Lake Havasu Airport. The plane received serious damage: the cockpit section broke off, other parts of the fuselage were significantly damaged and was decommissioned.
    October 8, 2019 at 15:15 F-16C Block 50 (s / n 91-0340; r / n CC-38 [315]), assigned to the 480th fighter squadron of the 52nd fighter wing US Air Forcecrashed after take-off from Spangdahl airbase in Germany
    October 29, 2019 at 19:16 F-16C, assigned to the 49th fighter wing US Air Forcecrashed during training flight
    December 2, 2019 at 15:30 F-16CM US Air Force crashed while entering the runway of the Kunsan Air Base in the Republic of Korea.
    \

    And these are statistics only for the F-16 and only lost planes. And this is only for the period from 2017 to 2020. And not from 2014 as the author. Where he counted only two losses from the Americans.
  32. amba1960
    amba1960 28 March 2020 06: 57 New
    +1
    Every sandpiper praises its swamp, that's for sure, but it’s worthless for responsible and professional persons to behave like that. It would be necessary to create a rating of truthfulness for journalists and cursors like this Sebastien
    Roblen, so that the reader can immediately determine whether it is worth buying a newspaper in which the liars have settled, or to turn for news to the one where these scribes are being chased, that's when the sales of frivolous newspapers fall, the editors and the owners think about whether it is worth losing "face" newspapers because of such talkers, you have to beat the ruble with the ruble, well, you can still go with MNT dollars, lari, hryvnia, rupees, etc. it, you know, when it’s empty in your pocket, it’s clearer, you can’t deceive, it’s not good.
  33. Jarserge
    Jarserge 28 March 2020 09: 01 New
    0
    It is correctly written. Thank.
  34. helilelik
    helilelik 28 March 2020 09: 03 New
    0
    "Commander" of the 55th regiment was killed on the Mi-35.
  35. Sergei Novozhilov
    Sergei Novozhilov 28 March 2020 09: 53 New
    0
    The principle of the military of the first Rome and now the United States is to "shoot weakly armed natives from a safe distance." The main thing is to become very afraid of them.
  36. VladVlad
    VladVlad 28 March 2020 11: 51 New
    -1
    Once again convinced: our military are fighting very badly! All these excuses, about nothing. Commanders do not know how and are unable to successfully fight, 5 years in Syria confirm this. Still stuck there, as in a swamp. for 15 years. The military will also die due to non-professionalism. It is necessary to fight so that the enemies with the information that not far Russians scattered like cockroaches far and abroad in different directions. While none of the enemies is afraid of ours.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 March 2020 12: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: VladVlad
      Once again convinced: our military are fighting very badly! All these excuses, about nothing. Commanders do not know how and are unable to successfully fight, 5 years in Syria confirm this.

      To put it mildly, this is not true.
      Our problem is that we are not always ready for war. And forced to learn already in its course.
      Which is unacceptable.
      However, statements like yours are utter nonsense.
  37. VITO1963
    VITO1963 28 March 2020 13: 19 New
    +1
    When a cat spoils me in slippers, it’s sadness. But I don’t perceive it as a serious rival. For me, as thieves and murderers in tuxedos, they will remain.
  38. Alexander Zima
    Alexander Zima 28 March 2020 13: 55 New
    +1
    I would like to look at the shots .. APACHES 'approach to real targets in Syria .... well, such as Crocodiles drove bearded men at low altitudes ... who can take the thread off the roller ??? and then let this Goblin tell us how the US pilots were met at airfields asinezatornye mashiny. to fight for real or to make an imitation of war .. these are completely different things ...... well, where there are no losses in the war. ??. skinte the video.
  39. Dog
    Dog 28 March 2020 14: 25 New
    +1
    due to the curvature of Syrian air defense calculations

    Blaming the "counterterrorist" for shooting at a terrorist who was hiding behind a hostage and firing at weapons, he (counter) missed and was taken hostage - it's okay, but forgetting the terrorist's guilt in this situation is akin to complicity in a crime.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  40. silver_roman
    silver_roman 28 March 2020 20: 20 New
    +1
    But the main thing is not even the number of departures. Of course, the official position is that igil is almost a state that is completely independent and pursues its own goals. Also, almost everyone understands that this is a nonsense. Isil is almost the state of the pvc. Won't they shoot at their own? so what comparison can we talk about then, if our VKS were really in the sights and really hunted for them, and the States all this time simulated some kind of struggle there, it’s not clear with whom
  41. steelmaker
    steelmaker 28 March 2020 21: 59 New
    0
    It's just that the United States is fighting only with the "Indians with spears." With equals, even with a weakened opponent, or be afraid, or look for traitors to stab in the back. All our combat losses are a stab in the back.
  42. aiden
    aiden 28 March 2020 22: 40 New
    +1
    And friendly fire is a battle loss or not. There was a video of how a Mi-28 Nurs-om shot down a Ka-52 or vice versa, I don’t remember already. This loss is not taken into account by the author. And yet, unconfirmed information, the Tu-22 sat down unsuccessfully after the bombing
  43. alecsis69
    alecsis69 29 March 2020 02: 22 New
    0
    A wonderful article, competent analysis, you can see a person understands the topic. Write further about military affairs, it is not necessary about the constitution.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 29 March 2020 02: 37 New
      0
      good
      Quote: alecsis69
      Write further about military affairs
      good Our slogan should be one - to study military affairs in this way, to establish order on the railways. "- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Political report of the Central Committee to the VII Congress of the RCP (B.), March 7, 1918 - PSS, 36th ed., P. 26 t. 36, s

  44. Ilya_Nsk
    Ilya_Nsk 29 March 2020 08: 33 New
    0
    Relativity of calculations is the right approach.
  45. sanik2020
    sanik2020 29 March 2020 11: 25 New
    +1
    The U.S. Air Force is more likely not fighting and playing a computer shooter, hitting the enemy from great heights and distances. Where then come from battle losses, unless the Windows freezes?
    And if aviation is in the heat of battle, then there is no loss. Let your f-35 or f-22 be sent for a combat attack, then they will talk about quality and skill.
  46. rruvim
    rruvim 29 March 2020 14: 04 New
    0
    With regard to aviation, it is clear. It was especially disgusting when the Syrians shot down our IL-20 from the 200th Vega. Although problems with "friendly fire" have been worked out for decades at the Sary-Shagan training ground. And I still ask one and the same question: what the fuck ... are we fighting in Syria?
  47. Varaga
    Varaga 29 March 2020 16: 29 New
    0
    But everything must be done honestly.
    At least not to look ridiculous.

    And in both cases:
    - Houston! We have problems...
  48. Shura Wii
    Shura Wii 29 March 2020 20: 40 New
    0
    Stupid to become, as well as an appeal to Western mongrels with a request to observe some kind of honesty. What honesty can we talk about with professional fake players and fans of double standards? And the losses ... and the losses are very large, we are still ready to sacrifice our military for dubious purposes, putting them on the cutting edge, instead of using drones and precision weapons, like the same Americans.
  49. SkyMaXX
    SkyMaXX 29 March 2020 21: 12 New
    +1
    The Ka-52 then fell due to a technical malfunction, and not due to MANPADS. He flew at low altitude and medium speed and the transmission failed, the helicopter fell and fell apart.
  50. The comment was deleted.