Military Review

Turkish military received the first batch of medium tanks Kaplan

191
Turkish military received the first batch of medium tanks Kaplan

Turkish Armed Forces begin to receive first production medium Tanks Kaplan. According to the portal janes.com, FNSS delivered the first six production vehicles to the Turkish army.


As explained in the Turkish Ministry of Defense, according to the official classification, this medium tank in the Turkish army will be considered a "tracked anti-tank vehicle." The first two pre-production tanks the Turkish military received in December last year, now it comes to production vehicles. Unfortunately, the Turkish military did not release information on the number of Kaplan medium tanks ordered.

The machine was developed as part of the Modern Medium Weight Tank (MMWT) program by the Turkish FNSS Corporation in conjunction with the Indonesian company PT Pindad. The joint Turkish-Indonesian tank Kaplan MT is a development conducted primarily in the interests of the armed forces of Indonesia. The tank uses the new generation Kaplan tracked chassis developed by the Turkish FNSS corporation. The tower is the Belgian CMI Defense CT-CV with a 105 mm rifled Cockerill gun and a coaxial 7,62 mm machine gun. The gun is equipped with a drum-type automatic loader and is compatible with NATO standard 105-mm tank ammunition. The machine is equipped with a digital fire control system with stabilized sights (with integrated thermal imaging channel and a laser range finder), information management and navigation systems, as well as a system of all-round visibility.

Survival of the machine and crew is provided by laser radiation sensors, smoke grenade launchers, a system of protection against toxic substances of mass destruction, as well as an automated fire protection system.
Photos used:
http://aa.com.tr
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  1. ABM
    ABM 25 March 2020 18: 07 New
    -15
    for 1945 - a great tank, by the way. Surpasses even the T-54, probably
    1. Graz
      Graz 25 March 2020 18: 17 New
      +9
      why is he superior to that? if only with modern electronics, the 54ki has 200mm forehead armor, and this pelvis has a heavy machine gun in the best case, and the weight is about the same for cars
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 25 March 2020 18: 45 New
        -2
        With tanks with 125mm you can’t reach, 54ku will completely shoot at a range.
      2. bistrov.
        bistrov. 25 March 2020 20: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Graz
        54ki forehead armor 200mm,

        These are towers of 200 mm., And the forehead is only 100., and so, yes, I think he is far from 54.
      3. mvg
        mvg 25 March 2020 20: 32 New
        -9
        54ki forehead armor 200mm

        With 54 at least, the M-41 lungs competed on equal terms, with a 90 mm gun. They took it in the forehead. Not talking about the Centurions. In what war did this miracle tank win? The one that got as a trophy by hundreds?
        1. Voltsky
          Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 15 New
          -2
          they play in tanks :) they are sure that the power of tank weapons has not changed, and the fact that 100-200mm is really a panacea ...
          they are such hatchets, a lot of ambition, and then a lot of caviar :)
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 17 New
          12
          Quote: mvg
          In what war did this miracle tank win?

          1. Voltsky
            Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 41 New
            -10
            won in suppression of uprising? :)
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 47 New
              16
              Quote: Voletsky
              won in suppression of uprising? :)

              E .....
              In fact, formally in the photograph, the victory of the uprising, and not its suppression.
              laughing
              Suppression just did not really succeed. Despite the fact that Americans suppressed
              1. Voltsky
                Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 50 New
                -4
                not much wrong, no? :) I just confused the side ... and this is just one picture
          2. mvg
            mvg 25 March 2020 21: 53 New
            -6
            Vietnam, Korea? Arabs? See the loss statistics with light M-24 and M-41. And when you bring the average M-26 and M-48 it became sad. And the Arabs were generally shot from 3 km. The D-10 gun seems to be much inferior to the English L-7, and the antediluvian sights. Daytime allowed to work from 1200 m, night from 400 .. Probably only the price is low, but they paid for it with their lives.
            Another approach with the West.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 03 New
              +8
              Quote: mvg
              Another approach with the West.

              What's the difference?
              Вопрос был "В какой войне победил этот чудо- танк?" Ответ- во Вьетнамской.

              Quote: mvg
              And the Arabs were generally shot from 3 km.

              Even with the super-precise MT-12, I would not dare to shoot at 3 km. I'm afraid the stories about 3 km are from the category of hunting tales.
              1. Voltsky
                Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 31 New
                -4
                and the t-72 lost in afghan according to your logic?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 33 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  and the t-72 lost in afghan according to your logic?

                  Do you have a problem with the story?
                  1. Voltsky
                    Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 39 New
                    -4
                    And you ?!

                    It’s just that, according to my information, the war in Vietnam was lost by the Americans for political reasons and thanks to the T-55, you :)
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 45 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Voletsky
                      It’s just that, according to my data, the Vietnam War was lost by the Americans

                      laughing laughing laughing
                      I don’t know who is supplying you with information, but the Vietnam War ended on April 30, 1975.
                      By this time, the Americans had not fought in it for more than two years. They Withdrew March 29, 1973
                      1. Voltsky
                        Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 48 New
                        -4
                        ?! themselves joked themselves laughed ?! or you answer your own questions posed by yourself in your mind.

                        I didn’t seem to touch any dates, I just indicated that the conflict was lost for political reasons
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 13 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Voletsky
                        I didn’t touch any dates

                        But in vain ....
                        Otherwise, they would have known that the last two years of the Vietnam War were fought without the participation of the Americans.
                      3. Voltsky
                        Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 20 New
                        -6
                        Quote: Spade
                        But in vain ....
                        Otherwise, they would have known that the last two years of the Vietnam War were fought without the participation of the Americans.


                        Quote: Voletsky
                        only indicated that the conflict was lost for political reasons

                        if there was political will, Vietnam would not exist, I hope you do not need to be educated in history, what did the gentlemen from Washington think about doing? :)

                        And I look at you as Chegevara jammed in the civil war :) there, not the tanks won, but the general uprising of the masses
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 26 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Voletsky
                        if there was political will, Vietnam would not be

                        "Молодой человек, это называется "если бы у бабушки были бы ****, то она была дедушкой"." (with)

                        Quote: Voletsky
                        and the general uprising of the masses

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        Y-yes ....
                        History is clearly not your thing ...
                      5. Voltsky
                        Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 31 New
                        -5
                        probably not mine :) At least, what I know does not exactly indicate the victorious zerg rush t-55 :)))) And more about the inability to resist the southerners, and that the SGA did not have the political will to continue this farce: )
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 46 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Voletsky
                        And more about the inability to resist the southerners, and that the SGA did not have the political will to continue this farce :)

                        In short, I see. The North Vietnamese fought unfairly and unprofessionally, because they themselves and the T-55 tank cannot be considered victors in the war.

                        Your feedback is very important to us.......
                      7. Voltsky
                        Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 54 New
                        -6
                        You are not very adequate as I look :)

                        The North Vietnamese were victorious in the war, the T-55 participated in this war on the victorious side, but he was nothing outstanding from himself either there or in the war against the Jews.
                      8. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 31 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Voletsky
                        The North Vietnamese were victorious in the war, the T-55 participated in this war on the victorious side, but he was nothing outstanding from himself either there or in the war against the Jews.


                        And this, I'm sorry, is already fierce nonsense.
                        На уровне "сержант Пупкин. конечно воевал на победившей стороне, и даже на Рейхстаге расписался, но он не победитель. Потому что по моему суперэкспертному мнению он себя не проявил...."
                      9. Voltsky
                        Voltsky 26 March 2020 00: 38 New
                        -12
                        if in the jungle of the Indochina he proved himself to be excellent (exclusively according to your version, and to your hell he knows where to take it from), then in the sands of the Sinai and the Levant he sucked on both cheeks.

                        And if you translate into your language, then under Brest Pupkin seemed to be listed in the composition, and under Volokolamsk he crap liquid.
                        The total data contradict each other, Either Pupkin was not near Brest or he was wounded, or he was struck by combat diarrhea near Volokolamsk; neither one nor the other cannot be used as reliable information.

                      10. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 40 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Voletsky
                        and under Volokolamsk crap liquid.

                        But he got to Berlin. And therefore the winner. Whatever they think on the sofas.
                  2. avdkrd
                    avdkrd 26 March 2020 02: 59 New
                    +5
                    The North Vietnamese were victorious in the war, the T-55 participated in this war on the victorious side, but he was nothing outstanding from himself either there or in the war against the Jews.

                    Откуда столько желчи? Обидели мышку, написали в норку? Не похвалили лёгкую систему огневой поддержки турецкого производства? Так это потому, что её танком назвали. Для сведения-в арабо-израильском конфликте т-55(54) показал себя на 5 с плюсом. Израильские военные это признают без лишнего пафоса. То почему арабы проиграли, лежит в другой плоскости, просто евреи лучше воюют и лучше мотивированы. Т-55 и его версии из Китая это не просто классика, это классика признаная во всем мире. Единственное чем он уступит современному "среднему" танку, так это в ситуационной осведомленность экипажа. Впрочем китайцы дёшево и сердито решают этот вопрос размещением внешних камер и новыми прицелами.
                  3. Voltsky
                    Voltsky 26 March 2020 03: 16 New
                    -6
                    I do not have bile, the attitude to this unit is absolutely equal, but I do not intend to admit that the creation of the late 40g of the last century is superior to modern samples.
    2. maidan.izrailovich
      maidan.izrailovich 26 March 2020 12: 06 New
      0
      that the conflict was lost for political reasons

      Проигрыш войны по "политическим мотивам"? Это что-то новенькое в местном словоблудии. lol Возможно имелось ввиду проигрыш из-за политиков? Такое возможно. Именно так "проиграла" Советская армия в Афгане. Но Вьетнам американцы проиграли вчистую именно на поле боя.
  • Gray brother
    Gray brother 26 March 2020 07: 36 New
    -1
    Quote: Voletsky
    a t-72

    And 105 mm, by the way, doesn’t take the T-72 frontal armor, even the armor of the very first export ones.
    1. MSN
      MSN 26 March 2020 22: 14 New
      0
      One of the very first feathered sub-caliber M111 remarkably pierced the VLD T72. I had to urgently strengthen.
      1. Gray brother
        Gray brother 26 March 2020 22: 20 New
        0
        Quote: MSN
        One of the very first feathered sub-caliber M111 remarkable VLD T72

        Where did they meet?
        1. MSN
          MSN 26 March 2020 23: 24 New
          0
          IN USSR . Trophy Israeli and T-72A. After the 1982 war. On tests - breaking through the frontal armor. As a result, OCD Reflection is launched. As a result, the strengthening of the frontal armor of the USSR MBT since 1984.
        2. Gray brother
          Gray brother 26 March 2020 23: 59 New
          0
          Quote: MSN
          . Trophy Israeli and T-72A. After the 1982 war. On tests - breaking through the frontal armor.

          Never heard of that.
        3. MSN
          MSN 27 March 2020 08: 37 New
          0
          In 1982, in the 38th research institute of the Ministry of Defense (the city of Kubinka), an American-made Israeli M48A5 tank was delivered from the combat area, equipped with a mounted DZ, which was intended to deal with cumulative ammunition. In this tank were the 105-mm M111 BPS, which were tested on the frontal armor of the T-72 tank. At the same time, for a comparative assessment, together with the M111 BPS, a 125-mm 3BM22 “Hairpin” projectile was fired
          The hairpin did not break, M 111 broke.
        4. Gray brother
          Gray brother 27 March 2020 08: 41 New
          0
          Quote: MSN
          The hairpin did not break, M 111 broke.

          OK. M111 was not the only ammunition that existed at that time.
        5. MSN
          MSN 27 March 2020 10: 36 New
          0

          M 111 struck into the most protected area. Bulletin of armored vehicles No. 12/1991 S.8-13. Interesting about armor 72
        6. Gray brother
          Gray brother 27 March 2020 10: 39 New
          0
          Quote: MSN
          M 111 struck into the most protected area.

          I know that this is not the most common ammunition at that time, the rest did not pierce.
      2. MSN
        MSN 27 March 2020 10: 41 New
        0
        As you can see the T-72 100 mm BM-8 made its way into the forehead. And you about L-7.
      3. Gray brother
        Gray brother 27 March 2020 10: 46 New
        0
        Quote: MSN
        As you can see the T-72 100 mm BM-8 made its way into the forehead.

        In weakened areas. They are listed and Russian in white says that the probability of getting into these zones is negligible.
        M111 at that time was the latest projectile, and even if this shelling were not there, the armor would still be strengthened due to the appearance of 120mm guns from NATO.
      4. MSN
        MSN 27 March 2020 10: 49 New
        0
        Be careful. The probability of getting into the NLD is negligible, and it is thrown out of the calculation of the area of ​​the relaxed booking. The remaining area is 30%. Do you see scans? I am not very experienced in this forum.
      5. Gray brother
        Gray brother 27 March 2020 10: 55 New
        0
        Quote: MSN
        . Do you see scans?

        Of course, it is impressive in percentage terms, but outwardly it’s not very, it’s precisely those places where it’s most likely to get hit.
        I don’t see anything terrible.
    2. MSN
      MSN 27 March 2020 11: 01 New
      0
      Another article.
      As shown by tests of shelling the hull and turret of the T-72B tank, carried out according to the program [2] with BM-26 shells with armor penetration 200 mm of medium-hard steel armor at an angle of 60 ° from a distance of 2 km and BM-22 with armor penetration of 170 mm / 60 ° s 2 km, weakened zones made their way from distances, m:
      The driver’s area (in the middle line of the weakened zone) …………. 1
      The roof of the tower …………………………… ... …………………………. 3
      Commander's hatch ...................................... 3
      The zone weakened by the trunnions of the gun .............................................. ............ 1
          The gun’s embrasure is protected only from the B-32 armor-piercing bullet of 12,7 mm caliber from a distance of 100 m.
    3. Gray brother
      Gray brother 27 March 2020 11: 03 New
      0
      Quote: MSN
      As shown by tests of shelling the hull and turret of the T-72B tank, carried out according to the program [2] with BM-26 shells with armor penetration 200 mm of medium-hard steel armor at an angle of 60 ° from a distance of 2 km and BM-22 with armor penetration of 170 mm / 60 °

      At the training ground, you can shoot until you turn blue and still get exactly where you wanted to.
      At the European theater of operations, the average firing distance was determined (then and now too) at 1800 meters, so this is all for yourself.
    4. MSN
      MSN 27 March 2020 11: 18 New
      0
      Now T-72 and T-90 are not fighting at the European Theater. In Syria, the shooting conditions are better. The percentages are really serious, the bad thing is that half of the weakened zone is a cutout in the VLD under the hatch of the driver and gun trunnion. This is just the place to aim, and the second these places in this design can hardly be strengthened. After all, the T-72B was fired upon, it should already have removed all the posts with armor. Did not work out.
    5. Gray brother
      Gray brother 27 March 2020 11: 24 New
      0
      Quote: MSN
      Now T-72 and T-90 are not fighting at the European Theater.

      But created specifically for him. Where he was, he remained the main enemy.
      They can fight anywhere.
      Quote: MSN
      cut-out in VLD under the driver’s hatch,

      It is not as big as it seems on your projection.

      And getting into the axle in probability is equal to getting into the barrel or further getting into the breech of the gun after breaking. I have read about these weakened zones many times, but for some reason no one takes this into account, you might think directly that there is no gun in the forehead of the tower and there is a porthole instead, yeah.
    6. MSN
      MSN 27 March 2020 11: 49 New
      0
      Axles do not exist on their own. They are put for something and somewhere. Together, this is a zone weakened by the trunnions of the gun. Or embrasure. What and how it makes its way and how much space it takes is indicated above. With the hatch area as well. Are they considered or not? Of course take into account. Therefore, numerous attempts to replace the old MBT. T-95 and others. An article in the journal is about this. Offers a replacement tank for the T-14 layout.
    7. Gray brother
      Gray brother 27 March 2020 12: 12 New
      0
      Quote: MSN
      . Offers a replacement tank for the T-14 layout.

      To want is not harmful, it is harmful not to want, but it is unclear what will be there for the money.
      On the T-90, there DZ closes everything now, on the T-72B3M, the blocks reduced to the tower were also stuck, full-fledged apparently not because of the power of the explosion.
      But in general, there is no perfection in the world.
  • mvg
    mvg 25 March 2020 23: 27 New
    -5
    The answer is in Vietnamese.

    Or maybe 300 thousand Chinese, echelons of weapons and frankly anti-war mood in the states?
    The tank did not stand out.
    And the stories about 3 km, this video. Centurions and Merkava 2 often defeated 120 mm Rheinmetall, firing at 4-5 km. And at that moment, Jews were beating from the Golan Heights against the advancing Syrians. and stopped the attack, at times a larger enemy
    1. Voltsky
      Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 39 New
      -6
      no, Monsieur Lopatov is sure that this is solely the merit of the T-55 and not some hippies and media in the SSA :) And the fact that there, the southerners threw weapons in packs and ticked, so that the heels sparkled, this is exclusively thanks to the T-55: )

      he’s a connoisseur of history, xs where did he read this from, but the main thing is that he’s a connoisseur :)
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 43 New
      +5
      Quote: mvg
      And the stories about 3 km, this video.

      Where harsh men are forced to tie a shovel to both hands to show the real size of the fish ...
      Стрельба по стоящему танку на такой дальности относится к категории "маловероятно". Ибо "рассеивание". Стрельба по движущемуся - "ненаучная фантастика". Ибо "величина поражаемого пространства"
    3. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 00: 06 New
      +2
      Here it is wrong. Fights during the Doomsday War were fought over short distances.
  • Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 00: 05 New
    0
    Три км это стандартная дистанция для проверки пристрелки пушки 105-мм для танка "Меркава-2". Ночью. Для танкистов-резервистов, которые танки видят раз в год в лучшем случае.
    А в 1965 году, во время "Битвы за воду" дистанция стрельбы из орудия L7, установленного на танках "Центурион" была от 5.8 до 11 км. Стрельба велась с помощью корректировщиков и на таких дистанциях на уничтожение целей тратилось по 3-5 снарядов. Одна из целей была поражена с первого выстрела.
    1. mvg
      mvg 26 March 2020 09: 46 New
      -4
      One of the targets was hit from the first shot

      I read or watched all the wars. in this case, he wrote about Syria’s first attack on the Golan. just the numbers are those when 88 Israeli tanks repelled the first wave. but the fact that the moving tank with 8 km, I do not believe. 3 km away. Israeli film.
      1. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 10: 24 New
        +1
        At a distance of 8 km on a moving target without guided weapons, it is possible only with great luck or with a very large, simply huge experience. If we are talking about the attack of the Syrians on October 6, 1973, then the reflection of the first wave was carried out at distances of 3-5 kilometers.
        1. mvg
          mvg 26 March 2020 13: 49 New
          -3
          Syrian attack October 6, 1973

          So he wrote in the first comment. I watched the video a couple of months ago. I didn’t understand the Arabs, they prepared so much and laughed. But your intelligence was not up to par. Syria attacked almost 500-700 tanks, IS-3 T-55. Multiple advantage. Plus surprise.
          1. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 14: 21 New
            +1
            But the Arabs did not go wrong, they acted absolutely correctly, in full accordance with the charters of the Soviet army and the information available to them. Therefore, the Arabs won the first two days. Now about our intelligence. Ours laughed for political and economic reasons - a few months before the war, the Egyptian army was already on the Channel, a massive call for reservists was launched, which had a very negative impact on the economy, so the Golda government was very wary of warnings about a possible attack. And intelligence, seeing this attitude, also reduced the degree of tension in its forecasts.
          2. mvg
            mvg 26 March 2020 21: 48 New
            -3
            they acted absolutely correctly

            The Arabs had to attack at night, not all of your tanks were equipped with nightlights. And 400 m is not shooting, as in a shooting range from 3 km. The attack begins simultaneously with Egypt. Break through and destroy BTT at storage sites, and most importantly airfields. There were 4 main ones. And they were stuck for a day. Egypt still dragged air defense. For them, time was more important until the reservists and aviation were raised.
            And your intelligence, literally said that the Arabs are not ready to fight now, they just play with muscles.
            PS: But distracted from the topic, if the T-55 were so good, and 800 cars would be crushed by 100 Centurions in the Golan, and Egypt would not have lost a day, I'm afraid without states there would be kirdyk
          3. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 22: 59 New
            +1
            Our tanks at the front did not have nightlights at all. And the Arabs had them. But this did not help them much, rather the opposite. The same Zwick Gringold, who stopped a tank brigade in the Golan on one tank, used burning Syrian tanks, whose nightlights could not detect him because of the flare, as a highlight.
            The attack was launched by Egypt and Syria at about 2 pm at the same time, and continued after dark. The stop of the Egyptian offensive is connected with the need to transfer tanks and air defense from beyond the Channel, without which the advancing tank armada would be rolled out on the sand (which almost happened on the second day of the Sinai war, when, after the Israeli counterattack was repelled, the Egyptians got out of the defense of air defense and received gifts from the heart from the Israeli Air Force).
            Танк Т-55 по циферкам (броня, скорость, наличие ПНВ) превосходил воевавшие на Голанах "Центурионы" и "Супершерманы", но имел два главных недостатка - маленький угол отрицательного наклона пушки, из за которого не мог поражать цели, находящиеся ниже его (сирийцы в самом начале войны захватили господствующие высоты, став прекрасной целью для наших танкистов) и отвратительные условия работы экипажа, из за которых танкисты быстро уставали и уже не могли быстро реагировать на изменения обстановки. Т-62, использывавшиеся сирийцами, имели те же проблемы.
          4. mvg
            mvg 26 March 2020 23: 20 New
            -3
            T-55 tank on the numbers (armor, speed, presence of night vision devices)

            I do not agree. Super Shermans Yes, but they also pierced the forehead 55, and the British considered the centurions to be very successful, but you still modernized them.
            They attacked during the day, it was necessary at night, without artillery preparation, while the hundred above did not reach the position.
            The best air defense tanks at the airport. Arabs also had aircraft.
            I also read about the red-haired hero, I shot three ammunition.
            There, Syria missed the airfield. The runway was repaired in half an hour.
            PS: The experience was the sea, but did not prepare
          5. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 27 March 2020 00: 00 New
            +2
            The main thing in the tank is always the crew. But TTXs do matter. So the Israeli crews knew the performance characteristics of their own and enemy tanks and used this knowledge very well. Especially in the Golan. Plus, the Jews defended their homeland.
          6. mvg
            mvg 27 March 2020 00: 43 New
            -3
            Jews defended their homeland

            Many would argue.
            The Syrians knew very well TTH and Sherman and Centurion, the USSR shared info.
            I am inclined to miscalculations of planning.
            But the world was in the balance. You already had a French reactor; you could have a couple of charges.
          7. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 27 March 2020 08: 54 New
            +1
            Сирийцы и египтяне знали ТТХ "Центурионов" 1967 года, насчёт "Супершерманов" не уверен, но не знали ТТХ Израиля. Они свято верили своей пропаганде, уверявшей их, что евреи трусливые и глупые.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 26 March 2020 06: 13 New
    0
    Quote: mvg
    Look at the statistics of losses with light M-24 and M-41. And when you bring the average M-26 and M-48 it became sad
    Bring.
    Quote: mvg
    Arabs?
    This leads to the conclusion, training and tactical skills of Arabs and Israelis on the same level. laughing
    1. mvg
      mvg 26 March 2020 09: 37 New
      -3
      Bring.

      there are some good films about the Vietnam and Korean wars on YouTube. with numbers and a documentary. t-34-85 / pt-76 / t-54/55/62. and Israel with numbers from Arabs and Jews. finding is not difficult.
    2. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 10: 35 New
      +1
      The tactical skill and training of the Arabs is the result of studying at Soviet military schools and the actions of Soviet military specialists.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 26 March 2020 10: 53 New
        0
        Maybe the moral-volitional qualities and perseverance of the Arabs are also the result of studies in the USSR and the actions of Soviet military experts? And yet, did all the Arabs all study in the USSR, or is it still only a part, and at the same time, of a minor officer level? It is not necessary to exaggerate the role of Soviet military education, its share was far from 100 percent, at least until the 67th year.
        1. Zeev Zeev
          Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 11: 13 New
          +1
          Во первых, израильские солдаты воевали не только с арабами, но и с советскими военными, с немецкими наемниками, англичанами и ещё кучей всяких разных клиентов вроде тех же пакистанцев или корейцев. Во вторых, все офицеры танковых войск, авиации и ПВО Сирии и Египта после 1956 года (операция "Мушкетёр", если кто не помнит) учились в военных училищах СССР или получали обучение в ОАР от тех же советских специалистов.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 26 March 2020 11: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Zeev Zeev
            Во вторых, все офицеры танковых войск, авиации и ПВО Сирии и Египта после 1956 года (операция "Мушкетёр", если кто не помнит) учились в военных училищах СССР или получали обучение в ОАР от тех же советских специалистов.
            Congratulations Let me not believe it, because this was not taught in the USSR.
            I was always surprised by their complete unwillingness to understand the simple truth that half-hungry, drunk with smelly water from an never-cleaned tank, who hates his officer much more than any Israeli, an Egyptian soldier will not defend his homeland and will gladly abandon his commander, his weapons and his post as soon as possible
            https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/34191
            1. Zeev Zeev
              Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 12: 29 New
              +1
              Are we talking about commanders or soldiers? By the way, how many soldiers from OKSVA sided with the Dushmans?
            2. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 27 March 2020 04: 28 New
              0
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              Are we talking about commanders or soldiers?
              It's about the army, you do not insist that the army, these are only officers?
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              By the way, how many soldiers from OKSVA sided with the Dushmans?
              What is this for? Although okay, and how much, even without taking into account the circumstances?
              In general, it is strange why, when comparing equipment in general, and tanks in particular, the experience of the Iran-Iraq war is omitted, and there, with approximately the same qualifications and motivation, and comparable TTX weapons, Western equipment did not demonstrate superiority.
            3. Zeev Zeev
              Zeev Zeev 27 March 2020 14: 31 New
              0
              We remember that despite the revolution and the flight of a large number of officers of the Shah’s army, Iraq was not able to defeat
  • tech3030
    tech3030 27 March 2020 16: 20 New
    0
    Only their traditions and discipline are not Soviet.
    1. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 27 March 2020 17: 03 New
      0
      Да нет, традиции и дисциплина были как раз советские. Вспомним 1939 год и "карьяла мотти".
      1. tech3030
        tech3030 28 March 2020 11: 17 New
        0
        Can you remember something else, Berlin 1945?
  • +5
    +5 26 March 2020 08: 01 New
    0
    Вот только бронирование Т-54/55 было заметно лучше, "партнёры" подобное только на Чифтене получили, поэтому им и Д-10 хватало (хотя она конечно заметно слабее L-7, которая вообще суперудачная, особенно на начало 50-х).
    About cardboard AMX-30 or Leopard-1 there is nothing to say ... the approach is not the same in comparison with the West ....
  • Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 25 March 2020 23: 49 New
    +6
    Quote: mvg
    54ki forehead armor 200mm

    With 54 at least, the M-41 lungs competed on equal terms, with a 90 mm gun. They took it in the forehead. Not talking about the Centurions. In what war did this miracle tank win? The one that got as a trophy by hundreds?

    The fact that the Arabs were not warriors was just lucky for you.
    You will encounter a hardened army of CA.
    I do not envy you. They educated themselves) There is no one to repent besides yourself
    You and 54 will get on)
    Sorry, wait ...
    1. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 10: 36 New
      +1
      And who taught and directed the Arabs, if not the Soviet military?
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 25 March 2020 20: 43 New
    -10
    Quote: Graz
    why is he superior to that? if only with modern electronics, the 54ki has 200mm forehead armor, and this pelvis has a heavy machine gun in the best case, and the weight is about the same for cars


    and the range of detection, aimed fire in the daytime and at night is also the same as that of the t-54/55, or are you just an urry-urya potts? :)
    Well, you need to put up against this kaplan in t-54, and then ask your opinion about the experience gained, hat racks are not a bird talker, though they differ in intelligence and ingenuity but not in a positive way.
    1. RVAPatriot
      RVAPatriot 25 March 2020 20: 56 New
      +9
      And you put on 54 similar optics, etc. .... And what will happen ???
      1. Voltsky
        Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 00 New
        -9
        Quote: RVAPatriot
        And you put on 54 similar optics, etc. .... And what will happen ???

        replace, engine, optics, suo, etc. etc. and see what happens? :)

        Молодой человек, это называется "если бы у бабушки были бы ****, то она была дедушкой".

        but the Jews have an interesting modernization package for the t-55, but it’s not rocket launcher :) it’s so in the air, that would not hurt you :)
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 15 New
          10
          Quote: Voletsky
          Молодой человек, это называется "если бы у бабушки были бы ****, то она была ..

          She would be TR-85M1
          1. Voltsky
            Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 23 New
            -6
            She would be TR-85M1

            I prefer the Jewish version with the L-7 :)

            Well, Monsieur Lopatov, I hope you don’t need to explain about the difference in the modernization potentials of the Kaplan with respect to the t-55? :) It’s just possible to continue in this direction, but in this dispute everything will be according to the laws of dialectics :)
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 30 New
              +9
              Quote: Voletsky
              Well, Monsieur Lopatov, I hope you don’t have to explain about the difference in modernization potentials.

              Of course not. The T-55 is at least the same.
              If not higher ... There would be a desire ...

              T-55AGM
              ... and money.
              1. Voltsky
                Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 39 New
                -5
                Quote: Spade

                Of course not. The T-55 is at least the same.
                If not higher ... There would be a desire ...

                T-55AGM
                ... and money.

                What are you? :)
                And the fact that everything from the transmission to the armament is obsolete and needs to be replaced, isn’t that so? :) No, my dear, if you only have a body from the old car, and then it’s greatly redesigned, then this is not a friend of mine.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 48 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Voletsky
                  No, my dear, if you only have a body from the old car, and then it’s heavily redesigned, then this is not my friend’s modernization.

                  That is still a modernization. And the T-55AGM
                  1. Voltsky
                    Voltsky 25 March 2020 21: 52 New
                    -3
                    Is it a modernized Volga? :)

                    or is it still a gag project where the Volga is taken as the basis?


                    просто учитывая как вы понимаете слово "модернизация", я вот не могу понять согласно вашей логике JF-17 - это модернизированный миг-21 или всё же нет ?:)
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 07 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Voletsky
                    Is it a modernized Volga? :)

                    Это тюнингованная "Волга" Серии нет и не предвидится.

                    Quote: Voletsky
                    JF-17 is an upgraded MIG-21

                    Yes. This is a product of deep modernization J-7
                  3. Voltsky
                    Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 10 New
                    -4
                    I got it :)

                    f-22 - deep modernization of f-15, f-35 - deep modernization of f-16 with elements of the yak-41, and su 57 is a flat su 27:)
                    and the car is a deep modernization of the wagon.
                  4. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 25 New
                    +7
                    "белый шум"
                  5. Oquzyurd
                    Oquzyurd 25 March 2020 22: 54 New
                    -2
                    Voletsky. Forgive me, I read your argument and in my opinion you are right in the arguments. hi
                2. A.TOR
                  A.TOR 25 March 2020 22: 51 New
                  +2
                  От "Волги" в этой машине нет даже гайки. Все, включая фары и решетку сделано "с нуля" и имеет совершенно другие размеры и пропорции. Сам конструктив BMW купе. Заказчик возжелал иметь авто в стилистике ГаЗ-21 и не более.
            2. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 03 New
              -4
              it’s just what you indicated and I as options for upgrading the T-55, they are inferior to the Kaplan :) and then the complete alteration is complete ...
              otherwise it’s a conversation that 3 t-72b3 are abundant 3 abrams 1a3 on the field, where some have a full suo-bius, and drigs only have a parody
            3. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: Voletsky
              they give way to a kaplan :)

              ??
              And what are inferior?
              Quote: Voletsky
              3 abrams 1a3 on the field

              Кстати, знаменитое "румыны поимели американцев" было совершено благодаря СУО "Бизонов"
            4. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 16 New
              -4
              Quote: Spade
              Кстати, знаменитое "румыны поимели американцев" было совершено благодаря СУО "Бизонов"

              I had a project in Detroit, and there it was necessary to put a switch cabinet 7 meters from the column, agree with the plan, and my colleague John, calling me, said that he could not do this because he had only 5 meters of roulette. So that they could lose to the Romanians does not bother me much; and my colleague Raymod defeated them exclusively with 5m Hilti Roulette

              Quote: Spade
              And what are inferior?

              Suo, dynamics, lack of proper communication, modernization potential; because what you threw, and I, is the limit of the platform. And there you can still work on the Shashi, and weapons and defense.
            5. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: Voletsky
              Suo

              You can put modern. And they put it.
              Quote: Voletsky
              lack of communication

              You can put modern. And they put
              Quote: Voletsky
              modernization potential

              8)))))
              On the T-55, you can put a 125-mm gun. And they put it.
            6. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 34 New
              -4
              Quote: Spade
              "белый шум"


              It’s strange that Indonesia didn’t acquire your wonderful Romanian crafts, for political reasons they’d make friends with the Turks
            7. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: Voletsky
              It’s strange that Indonesia didn’t acquire your wonderful Romanian crafts

              Она приобрела "Леопарды".
              Including the most modern option, the Office Revolution.
            8. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 22: 42 New
              -4
              Quote: Spade
              Она приобрела "Леопарды".
              Including the most modern option, the Office Revolution.


              Need to translate? :)
              Harimau medium tank now in mass production

              https://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2020_global_defense_security_army_news_industry/tukish-indonesian_kaplan-harimau_medium_tank_now_in_mass_production.html
            9. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 22: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: Voletsky
              Need to translate? :)

              The tank in the photo is called Leopard 2 RI (Republic of Indonesia)

              But in general-
              https://www.dw.com/ru/сми-германия-одобрила-поставку-танков-индонезии/a-16797591
              Need to translate?
              And pay attention to the year.
              На данный момент у них "в строю" 42 Leopard 2A4 и 37 уже прошедших модернизацию Leopard 2RI

              Well, the super-super Kaplan plan so far as many as 18. If nothing hurt.
            10. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 15 New
              -4
              and this is the airship built in Europe at the beginning of the last century by Count Zeppelin, and it also has nothing to do with the conversation about Kaplan versus t-55 like your Leo-2


              But since you have suffered such a jungle :) Then answer the question, given your laudatory praises in favor of the T-55 as a mega platform with a bottomless modernization potential, why the USSR tank school did not stop there. After all, you are describing everything so rosyly, and the MSA and the BIUS and 122mm drin, and the engine is new and to hell that it will stand on the side of it ... Maybe well, this T-90M, we will put it in the T-55 troops with deep modernization ?! and what, cheap and cheerful, and you, as an expert, say that this pepelats for centuries :)

              Of course, you’ll sing the old man odes, but you’ll also cut the logic, the old is not better than the new and do not care how you upgrade it.
            11. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: Voletsky
              and he also has nothing to do with the conversation about Kaplan versus t-55 like your Leo-2

              Дирижабль не стоит на вооружении Индонезии, а 79 "Леопардов" стоят.


              Quote: Voletsky
              Then answer the question, given your laudatory praises in favor of the T-55 as a mega platform with a bottomless potential for modernization, why the USSR tank school didn’t stop at it.

              Потому что глубокая модернизация танка не на много дешевле постройки нового. Кто хочет- "останавливается". Как американцы с "Абрамсом", который в строю уже 40 лет, и замены пока даже не предвидится, только модернизации.
            12. Voltsky
              Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 27 New
              -2
              upgrade the T-55 to the level of Kaplan mine defense, and on this we will consider the dispute as abandoned by me :)
            13. Lopatov
              Lopatov 25 March 2020 23: 59 New
              0
              Quote: Voletsky
              Kaplan mine defense

              Is she needed?
              In reality, a tank needs such a device to protect against mines:

              Which protects against mines that really can be threatened. Modern mines.

              Другое дело, что предел для "Каплана" это 25-мм подкалиберный снаряд.
              That's when his defense reaches the level of T-55AGM ... That is, never.
            14. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 March 2020 00: 17 New
              -2
              induction coils in the pipe panacea from svu !!! All barmalei diverge, all your attempts are now useless, not some shielded cables will not save you, diverge ... because Lopatov pointed to the ultimate superiority :))))

              whi ... isn’t it funny yourself? :) it can be used against professional equipment somehow on a radio control, or against automated systems of the old generation :)
              Bikford cord + shielded cable and your phasatrons go through the forest :)

              hmm ... here I thought, probably it’s not worth continuing: / Believe me, they will not help, because I’m not quite sure that I can write why they will not help.
            15. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: Voletsky
              induction coils in the pipe panacea from svu !!!

              Как показывает израильская практика, единственной панацеей от СВУ являются сапёры. Потому что от 1600 кг в тротиловом эквиваленте никакая "усиленная противоминная" не спасает
            16. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 March 2020 00: 30 New
              -3
              Quote: Spade
              the only panacea for IEDs is

              ZRP-2 "Trail"
              Quote: Spade
              As Israeli practice shows

              their practice is to drive chocks on Lebanese hills, even if they are engaged in this.

              and mine protection as a contraceptive, it’s better yes, but it’s not useful than a turn.
            17. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Voletsky
              ZRP-2 "Trail"

              8))))
              For single track tanks?
              However, they are also used by sappers.
            18. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 March 2020 01: 01 New
              -3
              ну может я и не прав но я не вижу ничего более безопасного в плотной застройке нежели "ЗРП-2" и пуска нескольких кабелей.
            19. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 March 2020 09: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Voletsky
              ну может я и не прав но я не вижу ничего более безопасного в плотной застройке нежели "ЗРП-2" и пуска нескольких кабелей.

              Detection, jamming / destruction of a wire line, robot, overhead charge.

              "Тропа" она для пехоты.
              "Удлиненный заряд разминирования ЗРП-2 "Тропа" предназначен для проделывания узких проходов (около 40 см.) в противопехотных минных полях взрывным способом. Образовавшийся проход обеспечивает движение пешим порядком в колонну по одному. Взрыв заряда обеспечивает надежное срабатывание взрывателей противопехотных мин нажимного действия"
              http://saper.isnet.ru/mines-4/zrp.html
            20. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 March 2020 13: 34 New
              -1
              here it adds up wonderfully.

              UR-77 "Meteorite" - Soviet self-propelled rocket mine clearance. Created on the basis of self-propelled howitzer 2C1 "Carnation". Serially produced since 1978 instead of UR-67 [1].

              UR-77 is able to make moves in anti-tank minefields during the battle. The width of the passage is about 6 meters, and the length is from 80 to 90
            21. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 March 2020 15: 24 New
              0
              Quote: Voletsky
              here it adds up wonderfully.

              UR-77 and ZRP-2 are two different things.
            22. Voltsky
              Voltsky 26 March 2020 15: 49 New
              -1
              с телефона не удобно в несколько страниц, а у меня в голове сильно отложилось название "змей горынычь" вот и перепутал.
  • Eroma
    Eroma 25 March 2020 23: 42 New
    +2
    Well, you suffered! what Kaplan as a modern ST in all respects inferior to modern tanks! He has a weak gun, this caliber on the main tanks was replaced back in 80 years! It was even weak against export T72, but against T90, Abrams, etc. forehead is just useless! negative archaic drum loading system, of course I can be wrong, but something seems to me that from AMX105 is not much different, the development of the last century! And the armor is definitely inferior to the T55 in terms of armor resistance, all hope for active interference and dynamic protection, but it does not even protect against shells from the T55, but the T55 with some refinement will withstand a 105mm hit! good
    Both cars on the modern battlefield are equivalent, Kaplan has fire superiority, but so-so, and the T55 is significantly better protection!
    Between these machines is just a tank era! ...
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 25 March 2020 23: 49 New
    -3
    And the t-55 has more hp, and in general it has more advantages on the d-dust map :) After all, the tanks were created to fight the tanks :))))

    And the fact that they are usually disposed of by birds and svu, so here yes :) it will be better to feel yourself on the T-55 mine, because there is more and a first-aid kit, but the kaplan on the bird will get better because although there is a system of passive interference from birth, but hp less :)
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 02 New
    +2
    Quote: Voletsky
    After all, tanks were created to fight tanks :))))

    Of course not. This is prohibited by the Geneva Agreements and is treated as a war crime.

    Потому "Каплан" в полной безопасности.... Но вот незадача, стрельба из 30-мм пушки военным преступлением не считается. Потому безопасность "Каплана" относительна.
  • Eroma
    Eroma 26 March 2020 05: 48 New
    0
    laughing Kaplan think is Turkish Bachat? And able to shine and twist strands?
    Something I think not!

    And about the fact that the tanks do not fight tanks, the Turks themselves called him his tank, only they gave the gun outdated for this.

    As a means of fire support, I think the machine will have norms, only the Turks even have Leopards on this job, which need to be targeted, what will happen with this cardboard?
    Karoch, the claws of these deer are still crooked, and the tank itself is far from an imba! bully
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 26 March 2020 13: 38 New
    -1
    Quote: Eroma
    Kaplan think is Turkish Bachat? And able to shine and twist strands?
    Something I think not!

    here is another lover of tanks, and the adherent of the sect has no tax in the world :)

    Yes, yes, your best T-55 in everything, and over time, the hulls do not age, and the potential for modernization is bottomless; and they burned from the 51st Shermans because the Arabs were exclusively deer :) and 200mm armor from RPG-7 saves you :)))
  • Eroma
    Eroma 26 March 2020 19: 52 New
    -1
    It’s interesting to talk with another tank lover! drinks
    Until the 60s, there were no effective means against the T55 in the world, 90mm guns were weak, bazookas and other grenade launchers did not pierce his forehead! Only 120mm heavy guns were fit against the T55! But it was not possible to do a lot of them, and the T55 was a cut above everything else that resisted it and was technologically advanced for the thousandth series! good
    The L7 gun appeared as a means of combating precisely the T55.
    And what is outstanding for our time Kaplan possesses? Against the backdrop of modern times? In addition to the credible appearance, there is nothing! negative

    Even if we put the ST into account, then taking the modernization projects as the basis and gash the NEW tank, we get: a 125mm gun from the main tank with the AZ, with the chassis also from the T72 if (only 5 rollers!) With a modern CIUS (no worse than Kaplan), the engine 840 horses, with good armor almost in a circle to withstand any non-PT ammunition (30-40mm). And DZ and active armor against ATGM.
    Such a CT is inferior to the T90 only in armor resistance is cooler than Kaplan. And I note that there is no need to invent anything new, only everything ready to be assembled in one adapted case
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 26 March 2020 20: 06 New
    -1
    Quote: Eroma
    And what is outstanding for our time Kaplan possesses? Against the backdrop of modern times? In addition to the credible appearance, there is nothing!

    1. The production line, modern technology, and the ability to transfer them along with the purchase of this unit. (I don't like the way he looks)

    And which of the advantages does the T-55 have ?! numerous deposits of this miracle at various landfills ... A decent device for Eritrea, and a non-merchandise junk for people with money.

    ps
    I see no reason to discuss this nonsense further, these are cars of different eras; and both are debatable ...
    the t-55 has a minus in optics and stabilization (at one time), about Kaplan in general xs, but I'm not sure that it is better than the Chinese t-15 or whatever it is (which is based on the t-55 or t-62)
  • Eroma
    Eroma 26 March 2020 20: 27 New
    -1
    The fact of the matter is that this is just a commercial project, moderately successful, because like there is a buyer. Well done Turks, raised the loot, and promoted. For beginners, this is probably a modern technology from which you can fashion something more useful. Some earned money, other skills and knowledge gained. Actually the whole Kaplan, it has no relation to efficiency on the battlefield
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 26 March 2020 20: 33 New
    -1
    Quote: Eroma
    Actually the whole Kaplan, it has no relation to efficiency on the battlefield

    and this is how to look, the weight is not very large simplifies the transfer by air / by sea. If you have a country with frankly weak soils, or an island state, or you plan to use it in the 2 above situations; then maybe not everything is so bad ... Although here I would look towards Russian octopuses (to which I would also add something)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • MSN
    MSN 27 March 2020 09: 41 New
    0
    A 90 mm cannon pierced the T-55 in the forehead with a caliber projectile at a direct range, and cumulative at all combat distances. If you want documentary evidence, see the tender results in Yugoslavia. 84 pounds of English was even more powerful. You would read literature, very useful.
  • Eroma
    Eroma 27 March 2020 15: 30 New
    0
    Confidently pierced, at a distance of up to 700m, and a 100mm T55 gun hit NATO tanks in the 50s from a distance of more than km! Cumulative projectiles capable of penetrating appeared by the age of 60, or in the 60s! ... and even that, any obstacle and everything, because 250mm armor penetration as I remember, for low-impact guns, where the cumulum is the main ammunition, as gun power is weak. When the armor of the tower is 220mm, a bag of sand and all, the tank is not vulnerable! ...

    Not for nothing that they created a 105mm gun in NATO, they would have fought with 90mm guns if it fought well with Soviet tanks! And Centurion’s armor was increased from 152 mm in the tower to 250 mm, if memory serves
  • MSN
    MSN 27 March 2020 20: 58 New
    -1
    You can find the exact date of adoption of the feathered cumulative M348 (T108E40), but in 54 it was already the main one in the BC 90 mm T49 gun. This can also be called by the 60s, only a little earlier. A little earlier than the T-55 appeared., More precisely. As for the T-55 shells, the situation is deplorable. There was nothing but a chamber armor-piercing one. Just before the 70s. And from 500 meters onwards the T-55 did not penetrate the M-48. No way. Nothing.
    But the L7 was created by the British, they were not interested in looking at American crafts. And when the 105 L7 blossomed, the British moved on. At 120. They are interesting, British.
  • Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter 25 March 2020 19: 13 New
    -1
    Quote: ABM
    for 1945 - a great tank, by the way. Surpasses even the T-54, probably

    Turkey in the Middle East now seems to be playing the role of Germany in Europe of the 30-40s, releases Kaplan (tour. - “Tiger”) and is also invaded by the Americans, who, if there is an opportunity, will pit her off with Iran and treat her the same way she did in due time with Germany in the years 1943-1945. And unexpectedly the first samples from the ATGM Cornet.
    The first samples of the Kaplan tank are additionally equipped with anti-tank systems "Cornet". At the same time, Roketsan has already announced that a new Turkish OMTAS ATGM has been tested at Kaplan, and it is planned to use these missile systems in new combat vehicles in the future.
    Kaplan (tour. - "Tiger") - a classic representative of modern medium tanks.

    https://warspot.ru/16885-turetskiy-tigr-poshyol-v-seriyu
  • smaug78
    smaug78 25 March 2020 19: 24 New
    +2
    And you, of course, can correctly substantiate your statement? laughing
    1. Sky strike fighter
      Sky strike fighter 25 March 2020 19: 42 New
      -5
      Turkey in the role of Germany, Iran in the role of the USSR, Syria in the role of Poland. It seems. Or do you have a different point of view? The Americans will try to push Turkey and Iran. Turkey will have to do dirty work. Is there another question? Germany did not succeed in defeating the USSR. As a result, Germany was divided into zones of occupation as a country that lost the war.
      1. Machito
        Machito 25 March 2020 19: 56 New
        +4
        Turkey in the role of Germany? Complete nonsense. Drink a vitamin, let it go.
        1. cost
          cost 25 March 2020 20: 48 New
          +2
          Tank Kaplan MT (Turkey):




          Type Armored fighting vehicle, Medium Tank / Light Tank
          Place of origin Turkey & Indonesia
          Production history
          Designer FNSS
          PT PINDAD
          Designed 2015
          Produced 2017-present
          No. built 2 (Prototype) + 1 test hull
          Specifications
          Mass 32-35 tonnes
          Length 6.952 m (22.8 ft) hull, 9.105 m (29.9 ft) including the gun
          Width 3.360 m (11 ft)
          Height 2.456 m (8.06 ft) turret top
          Crew 3 (commander, gunner, driver)
          Armor STANAG 4569 level 4 [1] Ballistic Hull
          STANAG 4569 Level 5 Modular Add-on Armor
          V-hull underbelly
          Main
          Armament
          Cockerill 105mm rifled gun
          Secondary
          Armament
          7.62mm coaxial machine gun
          Engine Caterpillar C13 Diesel Engine
          711 hp
          Power / weight 22.2 hp / t
          Transmission Allison / Caterpillar X300 full automatic
          Suspension Torsion Bar Suspension
          Speed ​​70 km / h (governed), 78 km / h (tested road speed
          I apologize for the text in English - data taken from Turkish sources. Specialists will understand everything.
          There was a good article about him at VO: https://topwar.ru/115301-sredniy-tank-kaplan-mt-turciya-indoneziya.html
  • Catfish
    Catfish 25 March 2020 22: 03 New
    -1
    On the armor - FIG. And for the training of crews - generally nafig. It would be something to talk about. laughing
  • Yrec
    Yrec 25 March 2020 18: 10 New
    11
    Концепция "среднего танка" сейчас очень спорна. Танк, это сочетание защита/огневая мощь/подвижность. Для СТ первое отпадает, второе тоже так себе (применительно в Каплану), против ОБТ точно не пойдёт. По ходу, аналог китайского "горного танка".
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 25 March 2020 18: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Yrec
      Концепция "среднего танка" сейчас очень спорна

      It depends where ... For Indonesia, that’s it.
      1. Grits
        Grits 26 March 2020 07: 21 New
        +1
        Я гляжу, в мире появилась тенденция снова вернуться к градации танков и появления, как минимум, легкого танка. А тут еще и средний. ОБТ как универсал уже не устраивает? Очень возможно. Поскольку универсальность не всегда панацея, нужна и специфичность. Тот же китайский "горный танк" для действий в высокогорье, куда его противник не заползет. Или упомянутая вами Индонезия. Со своим своеобразным ландшафтом, где по болотам и джунглям классический ОБТ избыточен. Да и и наш Спрут-СД оригинален - умет плавать и летать. Поэтому появляется там, где ОБТ противника может и не оказаться.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 26 March 2020 09: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Gritsa
          With its own peculiar landscape, where in the swamps and jungles the classic MBT is redundant.

          Nevertheless, Indonesia began precisely with them. Purchased from the Germans and upgrades
        2. MSN
          MSN 27 March 2020 09: 45 New
          0
          MBT becomes heavier than heavy tanks. Outrageous price. People want something simpler.
    2. knn54
      knn54 25 March 2020 18: 50 New
      +2
      105 mm rifled gun will allow to fight only with outdated types of tanks that are available as the neighbors of Turkey. So the neighbors of Indonesia. The Philippines and Bangladesh showed interest.
      Tank for local conflicts. In my opinion. This is a light fighter (as I said above) of obsolete models of armored vehicles.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 25 March 2020 18: 56 New
        -1
        Quote: knn54
        like the neighbors of Turkey

        Controversial.
        Turkey has no such neighbors.

        Quote: knn54
        In my opinion, this is a light fighter (as I said above) of obsolete models of armored vehicles.

        This seems to be a necessary measure. And Turkey thus seized the contract from the Germans
        1. cost
          cost 25 March 2020 20: 54 New
          +1
          Lopatov (Lopatov): And Turkey thus took away the contract from the Germans

          Yes, the campaign is not only a contract, but also the name of the tank yes After all, Kaplan in translation from Turkish is a tiger
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 09 New
            0
            Quote: Rich
            Yes, the campaign is not only a contract

            Only.
            Turkey does not really need them.
            However, against the background of German (and South Korean) machines developed for Indonesia, but not for their army, the Turkish version looked preferable.

            Хотя по идее вариант с немецкими был адекватнее- они всё равно "Мардеры" закупали
      2. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 26 March 2020 10: 42 New
        +1
        105-мм пушка вообще то может использовать ПТУР. Да и повесить на "средний" танк тот же "Спайк" или "Джавелин" никто не мешает.
    3. missuris
      missuris 25 March 2020 19: 23 New
      +3
      33 тонны точно средний? а 41-46 тонн т-72 и т-90 это какой танк?, написано основной, но это как? между средним в 33 тонны и тяжелым в 55-70 тонн? а легкий тогда какой танк? все же для современных 33 тонны ближе к легким, просто при 20-25 тоннах у "танка" будет противоавтоматная броня)
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 25 March 2020 19: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: missuris
        Is 33 tons exactly average?

        Exactly.
        Not easy, because Indonesian lungs weigh 8-18 tons.
        And not MBT. Which weigh 55-60 tons

        Means average.
    4. Ovrag
      Ovrag 25 March 2020 20: 33 New
      -1
      Of course controversial. It’s much more fun to drive 50+ ton cars across the islands. Immediately visible iksperta.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: Ovrag
        It’s much more fun to drive 50+ ton cars across the islands. Immediately visible iksperta.

        Indonesia now has such machines.
        As far as I understand, in the end they should be under a hundred.
    5. +5
      +5 26 March 2020 08: 08 New
      0
      Концепция "среднего танка" себя не оправдала ещё более полувека назад, если за них считать АМХ-30 (и Лео-1, но его в теории) в войнах на БВ. Оказалось, что подвижность не компенсирует картонную броню.
  • roofing hedgehog
    roofing hedgehog 25 March 2020 18: 23 New
    +3
    and if he gets into the butt 125 mm high? probably no armor-piercing doge needed.
    1. V.I.P.
      V.I.P. 25 March 2020 19: 41 New
      +8
      А если в противотанковый "Спрут СД" или САУ "Нона-С " ,"Вена" попадёт 120 мм фугасный? В России полно техники с аналогичным бронированием....
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 25 March 2020 19: 46 New
        0
        Quote: V.I.P.
        Russia is full of equipment with the same reservation ....

        У нас нет ни одного танка "с аналогичным бронированием"
        1. BREAKTHROUGH READY
          BREAKTHROUGH READY 25 March 2020 20: 42 New
          +1
          So here self-propelled guns, and not a tank, i.e. direct competitor of the “octopus” and “striker” with a gun.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 25 March 2020 21: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: READY FOR BREAKTHROUGH
            So here are self-propelled guns, not a tank

            It is a tank.
            Потому что и "Спрут" и "Нона" состоят на вооружении артиллерийских подразделений.

            Quote: READY FOR BREAKTHROUGH
            and “striker” with a gun

            Не конкурент. По дорогам общего пользования не поедет. "Геркулес" его не повезёт. То есть он недостаточно мобилен для замены БМТВ М1128
            1. BREAKTHROUGH READY
              BREAKTHROUGH READY 25 March 2020 22: 04 New
              0
              It is a tank.
              Turks themselves do not think so: "согласно официальной классификации... будет считаться "гусеничной противотанковой машиной"" - т.е. фактически самоходная противотанковая пушка, аки "спрут".
              "Спрут" ...состоят на вооружении артиллерийских подразделений.
              How is it? The state should be with the anti-tankers. While the cat wept, I won’t be surprised if they were brought into self-propelled divisions to simplify management, but this is a temporary solution.
              not mobile enough to replace the BMTV M1128
              он и не должен заменять его по ТЗ, поскольку у турков нет ни "колесных бригад", ни потребности в авиатранспортабельности, но именно тактическая роль у машин схожа, следовательно и сравнивать их можно.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 26 March 2020 00: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: READY FOR BREAKTHROUGH
                т.е. фактически самоходная противотанковая пушка, аки "спрут".

                "фактически" если войдёт в противотанковые батареи. Как "Спрут"

                Quote: READY FOR BREAKTHROUGH
                How is it? The state should be anti-tankers.

                Well...
                And who are the anti-tankers?
                That's right, gunners. From the level of the anti-tank battery of the shelf and above.
        2. V.I.P.
          V.I.P. 26 March 2020 12: 07 New
          0
          Octopus is positioned as an anti-tank gun for the Airborne. His task is to lead an anti-tank duel. ))))) Although with Kaim it is he who can lead the question with the tank)) .. So that is ... Fortunately, the PT-76 was removed from service ....
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 26 March 2020 12: 13 New
            0
            Quote: V.I.P.
            Octopus positioned as anti-tank gun for airborne

            No. It is positioned as self-propelled guns for anti-tank units of the Airborne Forces.
            And the fight against tanks is important, but not the only task of anti-tank units
      2. BREAKTHROUGH READY
        BREAKTHROUGH READY 25 March 2020 20: 46 New
        0
        “Nona” and “Vienna” are second-line sau and are intended for firing from closed positions, without being exposed to attack.
        “Octopus” - did not receive wide distribution in the domestic army, as well as in general, its prospects are rather vague.
      3. roofing hedgehog
        roofing hedgehog 26 March 2020 04: 32 New
        0
        речь шла о танке турецкого производства, а не о технике поддержки..тем более пто "спрут" в атаку не ходит как и "нона" или "вена"
  • Operator
    Operator 25 March 2020 18: 32 New
    0
    Турецкая бронетехника: "Каплвн", "Кац", "Коэн", далее везде laughing
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 25 March 2020 19: 20 New
      +2
      I didn’t think that Fanny is popular in Turkey.

      1. Operator
        Operator 25 March 2020 19: 26 New
        -2
        Танк "Каплан" - попадает только в упор laughing
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 26 March 2020 07: 34 New
        0
        Probably the Turks really named the tank in honor of the unsuccessful Social Revolutionary. A joke, of course. Peace be upon her ......
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 25 March 2020 18: 38 New
    +1
    In any case, well done. The one who does nothing is not mistaken. Do not compare with our perfectionist-procrastinators who carry armature from year to year in parades.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 25 March 2020 18: 58 New
    -1
    A terrible tank .. Probably in such a tank it’s scary to go out into the field and into the city ..
  • Free wind
    Free wind 25 March 2020 19: 06 New
    0
    On the lights on the left side of the money clamped. Well done and done, we also have a BMP with a big gun. And then the tank, all kinds of armor are more serious.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 25 March 2020 19: 26 New
    +5
    Quote: roofing hedgehog
    and if he gets into the butt 125 mm high? probably no armor-piercing doge needed.

    Any modern tank, which is in service, after falling off the OFS 125-mm armor-piercing is not needed ...
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 25 March 2020 19: 33 New
      0
      Why? Can you justify?
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 25 March 2020 19: 50 New
        +4
        Well, if you look at Syria, then at least an empty tank is not fighting.

        Plus, again - as it arrives. Surveillance devices, structural strength of the gun. Again, shell shock. You can also add the flow of the shock wave, because as practice shows, no one likes to close hatches.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 25 March 2020 20: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: donavi49
          Surveillance devices, structural strength of the gun.

          Controversial.
          As far as I heard, measures to reduce damage from high-explosive fragmentation and high-explosive shells were still used.
          Because it makes no sense to protect the tank from a cumulative projectile. if it is incapacitated by its fragments or shock wave / blisant action.



          http://btvt.info/5library/vbtt_1987_04_oskolki.htm
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 26 March 2020 06: 58 New
            0
            That is what I had in mind when asking the question. The point is in the bells and whistles of DZ and KAZ, if the tank is simply destroyed by a landmine. Although this Turkish canned food is enough for the eyes.
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 25 March 2020 20: 19 New
    0
    I see no one reason why Prince Mohammed should have agreed with Trump; he cannot provide the necessary support, nor can he or will he want to put pressure on the rivals of the kingdom at the required level.
    And the most important thing is to threaten, at the right level he cannot either, because the Saudis are reinsured during the time by everyone who needs to annoy the SGA, including the Russian Federation.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 25 March 2020 20: 50 New
    -2
    What an ugliness. Look at the old Soviet and current Russian tanks and planes. Beauty, even outwardly.
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 25 March 2020 22: 03 New
      0
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrve8koyyRY Красивый танк,удобный,современный.Маневренный,с пушкой с очень хорошими характеристиками и.т.д.
  • Oquzyurd
    Oquzyurd 25 March 2020 20: 55 New
    0
    Technical properties

    General information
    Diesel engine
    Crew capacity 3 (including driver, gunner and commander)
    Transmission fully automatic 7 forward 1 reverse
     

    Movement Ability
    The maximum speed of the road is 70 km / h
    Refueling 450 km
    Maximum slope 60%
    Maximum lateral slope 30%
    Vertical obstacle crossing 0,90 m
    Trench passage 2.00 m
    Rotate Turn Radius
    Working conditions -320С / + 550С
     

    Weapon systems
    CMI Cockerill® 3105 Primary Weapon
    Secondary weapon 7,62 mm Coaxial machine gun
     

    Equipment
    360 degree situational awareness
    Wireless Intercom System
    Navigation system
    External power supply
    Indoor and outdoor lighting system
    Battlefield Management System (MYS)
    Laser Warning System (LİS)
     

    Security systems
    Ballistic protection (hull + additional armor)
    Mine Protection (Mine Protection)
    KBRN Security System
    Air conditioning system
    Automatic fire extinguishing system
    Mist solutions
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 25 March 2020 21: 17 New
    0
    It would be interesting to see the performance characteristics, but overall the impression is strange. Like, a staged car on the way to its own tank building?
    1. L-39NG
      L-39NG 25 March 2020 21: 35 New
      0
      Whose way? Turkish or Indonesian? What do you say about the Turkish Altay tank? Although there maybe South Korea helped with its ideas.
    2. +5
      +5 26 March 2020 08: 11 New
      0
      So they are completely imagining the Altai MBT by spoiling the Korean K2 sawing which year ... well ... trying to gash.
    3. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 26 March 2020 14: 43 New
      0
      In addition to the Kaplan tank, the Turks have another option, the Tulpar medium tank, from Otokar.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKWWHZ7xEmE
      They quickly learn how to make tanks and other equipment. As private companies, they try to earn money, and all this ultimately leads to the creation of competitive products. Otherwise, bankrupt.
  • Storekeeper
    Storekeeper 25 March 2020 21: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Voletsky
    Quote: RVAPatriot
    And you put on 54 similar optics, etc. .... And what will happen ???

    replace, engine, optics, suo, etc. etc. and see what happens? :)

    Будет т-90 "Прорыв" laughing
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 26 March 2020 01: 32 New
    0
    Octopus concept.
    1. Grits
      Grits 26 March 2020 09: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Pavel57
      Octopus concept.

      Совсем нет. Спрут изначально создавался как поддержка на поле боя десантуры при встрече с серьезной бронетехникой.. Поэтому он может десантироваться. Он может плавать. И исходили именно из этой "концепции". Из какой исходили турки - непонятно.
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 26 March 2020 10: 05 New
        0
        As far as I remember, Spruce grew out of the concept of a light tank, which the military did not really need. Therefore, he occupied the niche of self-propelled guns in the Airborne Forces.
        1. Grits
          Grits 27 March 2020 14: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Pavel57
          As far as I remember, Spruce grew out of the concept of a light tank, which the military did not really need. Therefore, he occupied the niche of self-propelled guns in the Airborne Forces.

          conversely
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 26 March 2020 04: 15 New
    0
    The gun is equipped with a drum-type automatic loader
    That's the sweetie.

    Kaplan MT Medium Tank (Turkey / Indonesia) VO May 11, 2017
    It is envisaged to use its own reservation of the building (apparently with homogeneous protection), able to withstand shelling of a frontal projection from small-caliber guns. On top of the body armor, it is proposed to install additional mounted modules that increase the resistance to shells and cumulative ammunition.
    Well then for sure, the tank is medium! repeat
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 26 March 2020 07: 36 New
    0
    Странно то, что турки сделали такой танк тогда, когда у них появился относительно неплохой танк "Алтай".
    Предположу "Каплан" создан для сражений с бандформированиями. Такие сражения более вероятны, чем столкновения с другими современными армиями
  • +5
    +5 26 March 2020 07: 53 New
    0
    Stupid weighty ... 105-mm anti-tank is almost useless, high-impact is also not very ... does he even swim? Although why sailing to the Turks? Or why do they need mobility due to cardboard armor?
    Why do we need Octopus-SD, at least it’s clear, but you can also argue ....
  • smaug78
    smaug78 26 March 2020 09: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Essex62
    Although this Turkish canned food is enough for the eyes.

    Like any tank.
  • iouris
    iouris 26 March 2020 16: 48 New
    0
    Kaplan. Someone very familiar. Or a friend ....
  • Legion10588
    Legion10588 31 March 2020 09: 10 New
    -1
    no matter how much Rusnya emits hydrogen sulfide, Syria will receive taxes with renewed vigor))))