Military Review

Puff and smoke in place

164

Yes, we can already say that "who is talking about, but here everything is about diesel engines." But what if this is so? If the situation doesn’t improve, it gets worse. We stand, and soon even stop smoking.


Sources of Mil.Press FlotProm allow us to conclude in publications that the situation with the engines for RTOs of project 22800, which actually came to a standstill, is unlikely to get out of the deadlock not only by 2021, perhaps the problem will remain a problem in 2022 as well.

And this is despite the fact that the Ministry of Defense and production workers have repeatedly made statements that the situation will be improved, the situation is difficult, but not critical, and so on.

However, the screws do not twist the statements, but the engines. To my great regret.

And no less regretful is the fact that the two plants were heavily litigated, the engine production process was inhibited, and the state defense order was actually thwarted. And the prospects are not at all bright.

On July 2, 2019, Zvezda PJSC filed a lawsuit against the 51st Central Design and Technology Institute for Ship Repair (CKTIS) and the Kingisepp Machine-Building Plant. CKTIS was supposed to contribute to the development of the production of Zvezda diesel engines at KMZ.

The fact is that Zvezda’s production facilities do not allow producing M507 diesel engines for the MRK series of project 22800 in the quantities necessary to fully meet the needs of the Ministry of Defense. And only for "Karakurt" you need 8-9 engines per year. And in accordance with the plans, the number of ships should only grow. So, you need more engines.

The logical decision is to attract a plant to the engine assembly, which is located not far from the main site (from St. Petersburg to Kingisepp about 120 km), and is directly related to engine building. Kingisepp mechanical plant produces spare parts for high-speed star-shaped engines.

And, as usual, we didn’t do it very well. And Zvezda, when the dates were smoking like an unregulated diesel engine, went to court.

The trial has passed. The proceedings were complicated, postponed several times, but in the end the court refused PJSC Zvezda to satisfy the claim for declaring the contract between the two enterprises dated December 21, 2018 as not concluded.

What happened and why such a sudden alignment?

On December 21, 2018, the plaintiff and the defendant entered into a contract that provided for the manufacture and supply of diesel products for the acquisition of the order of the head. No. 805 of project 22800. That is, the propulsion system for the Typhoon RTOs laid at the Gorky Zelenodolsk plant.

As a result of the trial, the court found guilty of disrupting the execution of the contract ... the plaintiff! That is, PJSC "Star".

And so it happens.

What was the St. Petersburg plant charged with?

And the reason for the non-fulfillment of the contract, it turns out, was the completely delayed transfer of technological documentation. In general, Zvezda was supposed to transfer documents to the engines back in 2018, but for some reason did not.

As a result, the 51st CKTIS did not receive documents for two-thirds of the engines from the list. Accordingly, the process could not go anywhere at all, and even less so to assembly lines.

But what in fact? But in fact there are no engines, the Ministry of Defense makes claims both to Zvezda and KMZ, which are supposed to approve a working schedule, according to which to start, in fact, for the sake of which everything was started. That is the release of ship diesels.

However, the yard is no longer 2018. And not even 2019. We now, in 2020, have the fact that two enterprises, instead of working for the benefit of the military fleet Russia, with which, frankly speaking, things are not brilliant with us, they are finding out who is more wrong in the courts.

And the documentation for the M507A and M507D engines is still not transferred. It is quite logical: when to deal with some documents there for diesels, if you need to prepare documents in the courts?

The situation is just wonderful. A plant that can produce engines is worth it. Suffers because it is money. The shipyard that builds the ship also loses money because there are no engines. The fleet is losing patience and nerves, as the delivery of warships to it is once again delayed.

Good only to lawyers and lawyers. In fact, they spend paper on boxes, money goes to pay for their work and state duties.

Excuse me, will lawyers work at sea instead of ships?

Yes, an RTO is not a destroyer or a frigate. But we have a horror about what is happening with regard to large ships. And now, with small ships, it has begun ...

And if only with small ones.

In general, Zelenodolsk is not very happy mood. To match and in St. Petersburg, at the "Pella". Well, in the Ministry of Defense, too, since it is impossible to rectify the situation by any meetings.

Meanwhile, problems with engines threaten to disrupt the second series of warships. These are project mine defense ships of project 12700. Yes, problems also begin with engines and diesel generators for the Alexandrites.

Shipyards can suffer in full, because downtime and losses at the state defense order are not what shipbuilders could dream of.

But the failure of the engine builders to fulfill their duties no longer causes concern. The situation is virtually hopeless. It is very difficult to say for what reason in St. Petersburg they cannot organize the production in Kingisepp of the engines so needed by the fleet, but they cannot. They prefer to run around the courts and write exculpatory letters in the spirit of the times.

Let's think about it. The plans of the Ministry of Defense include the construction of 23 missile defense systems of project 22800 Karakurt and about 30 sea minesweepers of project 12700 Alexandrite.

As mentioned above, the production capacity of Zvezda is a maximum of 10 engines per year.

But the engines of the "Star" are placed not only on the "Karakurt" and "Alexandrite". They (for lack of others) want to put on the MRK project 21631 "Buyan-M", missile boats of project 12418

Diesels and diesel generators created in the Soviet years on the Leningrad Zvezda put on minesweepers of project 12700, small missile ships of project 22800, missile boats of project 12418 and 1234.

The situation is not simple. And it will still have to be decided, and not in the courts. And at the shipyards. For we need not courts, but ships and ships.

In general, this should be understood by some gentlemen who, instead of giving the fleet engines, give work to judges and lawyers.

In fact, they were not put in the chairs of the leaders for that.
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  1. avia12005
    avia12005 25 March 2020 05: 52 New
    +57
    A new breed of Russian managers puts "optimization" at the forefront, every possible reduction in production costs, an increase in profits and their income. And you about diesels ... What diesels ???
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 25 March 2020 06: 10 New
      +33
      In the photo EM 956 of the project, dying it blows the last smoke ... "Buzzards" were generally ordered to die. Alas. A beautiful ship was. crying
      1. Aleksandr72
        Aleksandr72 25 March 2020 07: 29 New
        +37
        In fact, this photo in an article about diesel engines is not quite in place - on destroyers of the "Modern" type, it is project 956, it is also the Sarych GEM - a boiler turbine and very problematic from birth. And the situation with the production of diesel engines for the fleet will soon discard Russian shipbuilding in the 20-30s of the last century, when new submarines had to be bought in Germany not quite suitable (or not at all suitable for submarines) diesel engines for diesel locomotives. The current effective managers in pursuit of profit (of course, for their own pockets) have brought the situation to the point that the same diesels have to be purchased in China for warships. Take for example the small missile ship (RTO) of project 21631:
        According to the initial draft, German MTU 16V4000M90 engines were planned to be delivered to all nine ships of the Buyanov-M series under construction. However, due to the interruption of supplies caused by the sanctions, MTU diesels were installed on only five ships transferred to the fleet in 2014-2015.
        On the remaining ships of the series, the command of the Navy decided to put Chinese diesel engines - 20-cylinder CHD622V20 with a power of 3200 kW.

        And then it turned out that "the CHD622V20 engine does not fully meet the requirements for the power plant of a military ship." Because of what, the deadlines for commissioning RTOs moved to the right. Just like in the 30s of the XX century. But then the USSR was forced to put imported diesel engines on its warships, which were not suitable for operation on them - there was no production and experience of its own. And now?
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 25 March 2020 08: 03 New
          +25
          Quote: Aleksandr72
          on destroyers of the “Sovremenny” type, it’s also project 956, it’s also “Sarych” of the power plant - a boiler turbine and very problematic from birth.

          The essence of the problem is that at 956 there were high-pressure boilers KVG-2, where the water quality standards were about the same as on a nuclear submarine, plus the problem of de-oxygenation of feed water. Oxygen in feed water leads to intergranular corrosion. All this requires a good organization of water treatment on the ship and knowledge of the materiel. The problem with the quality of feed water arose during the period of democratic reforms, primarily due to the outflow of qualified specialists of the BS-5 and the decrease in demanding. As a result, the iron did not forgive its careless attitude.
          1. Aleksandr72
            Aleksandr72 25 March 2020 08: 21 New
            +24
            High-pressure boilers have long been used in the Navy. Their advantages and disadvantages, as well as problems in operation, were not a secret for the command of the Soviet Navy and the shipbuilding industry of the USSR. During the development of "Sarych" various options for the power plant were considered. It would be best to install more modern gas turbine plants. But here the issue was resolved in favor of the economy: in fact, the South Turbine Works in Nikolaev was the sole producer of such ship turbines and it was overloaded with orders (and now it is not at all in completely friendly Ukraine). Whereas at the Kirov plant the steam turbine workshop was almost idle. Plus gas turbines are much more expensive to manufacture, despite all the positive aspects of their operation. There were many reasons for choosing KTU for Sovremenny. In my opinion, it would be better if Gorshkov didn’t follow Butoma’s lead and installed gas turbines on the destroyers of the 956th project, then maybe the Sarychs still sailed on the seas for long trips, but didn’t rust in the harbors and wouldn’t be sawn on needles. Although the latter is more a matter of political will from the time of Tsar Boris the Drunk.
            All sailors - seven feet under the keel! And engines - diesel engines and gas turbines of our own Russian production. And that would not depend on anyone. Including and from their own effective managers.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 March 2020 13: 30 New
              +5
              Quote: Aleksandr72
              In my opinion, it would be better if Gorshkov didn’t follow Butoma’s lead and put gas turbines on the destroyers of the 956th project,

              Which were not. You yourself write that:
              Quote: Aleksandr72
              in fact, the only producer of such ship turbines was the South Turbine Plant in Nikolaev and it was overloaded with orders

              So for pr.956 a question Gas turbines or vocational schools did not stand. There was a completely different question: to build pr.956 with vocational schools - or not to build at all, since Nikolaev the gas turbine could not issue them for them.
              1. Nemchinov Vl
                Nemchinov Vl 26 March 2020 13: 20 New
                +2
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Quote: Aleksandr72
                In my opinion it would be better then Gorshkov did not go on about Butoma and the destroyers of the 956th project would put gas turbines,

                Which were not. You yourself write that:
                Quote: Aleksandr72
                in fact, the only manufacturer of such ship turbines was the South Turbine Plant in Nikolaev and he was overloaded with orders

                So for pr.956 the issue of gas turbines or vocational schools was not raised. There was a completely different question: to build pr.956 with vocational schools - or not to build at all, since Nikolaev GTU for them cannot issue.
                Well, yes, it’s more accurate.

                And in the production of ship-borne power plants, problems are not only with diesel engines ...
                But the most interesting continues now:

                After all, the fact that Zorya-Mashproekt will no longer supply gas turbine engines has been known since 2014 (if not earlier) But, a bet on their full replacement stubbornly continues to be made on the NPO Saturn. I.e one single enterprise (at that time, he also had practically no great experience in creating marine gas turbine engines !!!). As a result, over the past five or six years, the industry in fact has only two types of marine gas turbine engines of its own production. In addition, for the sake of objectivity, we must recognize the main bread of Saturn, primarily, - aircraft engine !!! But in Russia, still (?!), and the SECOND ENTERPRISE, which could take on functions, was not created - Marine Gas Turbine Engine Center, (similar to the Union, - "Dawn-Mashproekt" !!!) for the production of marine gas turbine engines of various capacities (and gearboxes for them), with its own test-tuning stand ?! Five years have passed !!! No one thought (OR DIDN'T KNOW ?!!) That one enterprise alone could not quickly establish a wide range of marine gas turbine engines ?! Aww! ?! Where is the second factory ?! What prevents on the basis of "Metalist-Samara" or "Kronstadt plant" (having experience in repairing such gas turbine engines), to create such an enterprise !!! So far this is exactly - Marine Gas Turbine Engine Center, will not, absolutely ALL shipbuilding programs (especially for the creation of rank 1-2 BNCs) SO and WILL doomed !!!
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 26 March 2020 14: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                  After all, the fact that Zorya-Mashproekt will no longer supply gas turbine engines has been known since 2014 (if not earlier). But, a bet on their full replacement stubbornly continues to be made on the NPO Saturn. That is, one single enterprise (at that time it also had practically no great experience in creating marine gas turbine engines !!!).

                  You are mistaken. Saturn (and the Rybinsk Design Bureau that came into it) has been the head office for ship gas-turbine engines in the Russian Federation since 1993. And it was he who developed all of our gas turbine engines.
                  ... in 1993, the Russian Navy chose the Rybinsk Design Bureau of Motor Engineering, which is currently a subdivision of NPO Saturn, as the location of the Russian base for offshore gas turbine construction. Until 2004, funding was insufficient, but since 2005 the situation has stabilized.
                  In 2008, the program for the creation of three types of Russian basic automated highly economical 4th generation gas turbine engines capable of ensuring the implementation of any shipbuilding program of the Russian Navy, as well as one type of diesel-gas turbine unit, was successfully completed. This list includes:
                  - GTD M75RU (developer - NPO Saturn OJSC) with a maximum power of 7000 hp The engine successfully passed the GSI in 2006
                  - GTD M70FRU (developer - NPO Saturn OJSC) with a maximum power of 14000 hp The engine successfully passed the GSI in October 2008.
                  - GTD M90FR maximum power 27500 l. with. (the developer is ZAO Turborus, a joint venture of NPO Saturn OJSC and GP Zorya-Mashproekt, Ukraine). The engine successfully passed MVI in 2006, and DGTA on its basis - in 2008.

                  The creation of the M55P diesel-gas turbine unit has been carried out by Turborus CJSC since 1993 on the basis of the Intergovernmental Agreement between Russia and Ukraine on cooperation in the field of marine gas turbine construction. From the Russian side, NPO Saturn OJSC (the area of ​​responsibility is the power turbine), FSUE Avrora NPO (GTE, diesel and unit control systems), Kolomensky Zavod OJSC (diesel engine) participate in the cooperation on the creation of the unit, from Ukraine - GP NPKG "Zorya - Mashproekt" (turbocharger and gearbox). Tests are carried out on the basis of the Ukrainian state enterprise NPKG Zorya-Mashproekt, since in Russia there is no bench base for testing offshore gas turbine units.
                  © bmpd
                  1. Nemchinov Vl
                    Nemchinov Vl 26 March 2020 15: 57 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    You are mistaken. Saturn (and the Rybinsk Design Bureau that came into it) has been the head office for ship gas-turbine engines in the Russian Federation since 1993. And it was he who developed all of our gas turbine engines.
                    in some ways, I'm really possibly wrong, uv. Alexey (my respect hi ), but probably not in the fact that this production can be compared with the Union Zarya-Mashproekt, either in terms of capacity or volume of output (especially in the fact that the latter rhythmically created not only marine gas turbine engines, but also gearboxes for them , and compressors, and collected all this, and checked / tuned on the test bench !!) ... It is necessary to create just such (I repeat), - Marine Gas Turbine Engine Center, (similar to the Union, - "Dawn-Mashproekt") !!! Perhaps you have not read the previous comment in full ?!
                    As for the gas turbine engine М75РУ ... belay Where did you see examples of its use in shipbuilding programs of the Navy ?! This does not suggest that - something is wrong with her (to put it mildly) ?! repeat
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    "...In 2008, the program for the creation of three types of Russian basic automated highly economical ship gas-turbine engines of the 4th generation was successfully completed, capable of ensuring the implementation of any shipbuilding program of the Russian Navy,... "
                    request lol Well and the main thing; firstly: this pathos article (above you), quite old; secondly: having carefully examined even this part of it ...?! The selected fragment will probably push you to the conclusions of my comment above ... winked wink
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 26 March 2020 17: 42 New
                      0
                      Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                      It is necessary to create just such (I repeat), - the center of the Marine Gas Turbine Engine, (similar to the Union, - "Dawn-Mashproekt") !!!

                      So this is Saturn. Everything that used to belong to the Ukrainian part of the joint production of gas turbine engines is now done by Saturn.
                      It makes no sense to create a separate Center exclusively for ship gas-turbine engines - with our unpredictable GOZ and with the volume of orders of our fleet, it will work extremely irregularly. And behind the hill RR and GE quietly produce both “volatile”, “floating”, and “standing” gas turbine engines.
                      Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                      As for the GTK M75RU ... Where did you see examples of its use in the Navy's shipbuilding programs ?!

                      So until 2014, Zorya-Mashproekt successfully crushed it.
                      In 2006, the engine received state certification and even entered the long-term shipbuilding program, but only as a promising development. It is quite possible that the M75RU would remain a Saturn project that would not go into mass production if a political crisis had not erupted in Ukraine at the end of 2013.

                      And then all efforts were thrown at the gas turbine engine for 22350, so the M75RU had to be postponed again.
                      1. Nemchinov Vl
                        Nemchinov Vl 28 March 2020 13: 55 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Quote: Nemchinov Vl
                        It is necessary to create just such (I repeat), - the center of the Marine Gas Turbine Engine, (similar to the Union, - "Dawn-Mashproekt") !!!

                        So this is Saturn. Everything that used to belong to the Ukrainian part of the joint production of gas turbine engines is now done by Saturn.
                        ?! belay -. i.e. since 1993, -
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        ...In 1993, the Russian Navy as the location of the Russian base of offshore gas turbine construction chose the Rybinsk Design Bureau of Motor Engineering, which is currently a subdivision of OJSC NPO Saturn.
                        and until 2020, two (well, three?!) types of turbines, and you can put it on a par with Zarya-Mashproekt ?! lol it seems to me no

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        It makes no sense to create a separate Center exclusively for ship gas-turbine engines - with our unpredictable GOZ and with the volume of orders of our fleet, it will work extremely irregularly
                        ?! what or vice versa ?! GOZ cannot grow, seeing how Rybinsk barely manages to produce M-90FR turbines for 22350 (just one type / project of BNK) !!!! ?! And if it will be necessary to increase their release ?! that is, not only for 22350, but also for ships of the EM / BOD class ?! We simulate (albeit rude and primitive) a situation in which, in addition to 4 M-90 FR turbines for DGTA M-55R (and this is even if the Zvezda-Reductor does not fail and puts the PO55R gearbox on time,) and Saturn, it will have time to collect them and check them at the booth?! .... Within one calendar year, Rybinsk will need, in addition to the described, to release (to ensure the GOZ in the EM construction program) two marching M-70 FRU-2, and two more afterburners M-90 FR, and still wait for the gearboxes to them, and collect it all at the stand ...?! With the rhythmic state defense order of the Union, in the 80s, Zarya-Mashproekt production capacities solved such problems, but the fact is that today Rybinsky Saturn is ready for this ...?! As they say, - "I am tormented by vague doubts" . request
          2. Dante Alighieri
            Dante Alighieri 25 March 2020 10: 58 New
            +12
            The essence of the problem is that at 956 there were high-pressure boilers KVG-2, where the water quality standards were approximately the same as on the nuclear submarines

            The saddest thing is a long time ago invented and tested a new less demanding steam unit that does not require a constant shift - KVG-6M. More details here: http://www.nationaldefense.ru/includes/periodics/navy/2011/0607/12236491/detail.shtml

            And it’s 20% more economical, which provides a 10% larger radius of operational action. That's just neither on Kuzyu, nor on the surviving 956th (of which you can still collect as many as 4 pieces), they are in no hurry to put these boilers from something. Whatever you say, it’s difficult to fix the spoiled reputation, and even more so to combat human prejudice
            1. Bashkirkhan
              Bashkirkhan 25 March 2020 11: 56 New
              +4
              Quote: Dante
              for the 956th survivors (of which you can still collect as many as 4 pieces)

              3 pieces "Fast", "Ushakov" and "Persistent". "Stormy" is dead and used as a source of spare parts for the "Fast", this year it should be written off. So far, "Burny" is used as a floating ship for the crew of "Marshal Shaposhnikov."
            2. Winnie76
              Winnie76 25 March 2020 17: 01 New
              +3
              Quote: Dante
              The saddest thing is a long time ago invented and tested a new less demanding steam unit that does not require a constant shift - KVG-6M. More details here: http://www.nationaldefense.ru/includes/periodics/navy/2011/0607/12236491/detail.shtml

              I read it. And in what place is he less demanding? When a bolt is driven into water treatment, it glues fins at the same speed.
              Quote: Dante
              And it’s 20% more economical, which provides a 10% larger radius of operational action.

              In fact, it is written 10% more economically. And 20% supposedly should be due to "work on other elements of the power plant"
          3. ism_ek
            ism_ek 25 March 2020 13: 18 New
            0
            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            Oxygen in feed water leads to intergranular corrosion. All this requires a good organization of water treatment on the ship and knowledge of the materiel. The problem with the quality of feed water arose during the period of democratic reforms, primarily due to the outflow of qualified specialists of the BS-5 and the decrease in demanding. As a result, the iron did not forgive its careless attitude.

            Because of such unfortunate specialists, ships are smoking. Smoke indicates that fuel oil does not burn out completely. Nozzles, automation does not work. The quality of pipes and feed water is a separate issue.
        2. Malyuta
          Malyuta 25 March 2020 08: 22 New
          +22
          Quote: Aleksandr72
          And now?

          And now we are building three temples a day!
        3. Jager
          Jager 25 March 2020 11: 51 New
          +1
          And where then Penza and Kolomna with their diesels?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 March 2020 13: 34 New
            +9
            Quote: Jager
            And where then Penza and Kolomna with their diesels?

            And still there. At Kolomna, with diesel engines for surface ships, nothing has changed for you, naval comrades, a diesel engine - and do whatever you want with it. What, breakdowns and fires? Well, we’ll bring it to mind ... someday - because the plant is busy with orders from Russian Railways, which for it is the main source of income.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 25 March 2020 15: 01 New
              +1
              D500 for ships should be put into production in 2021.
            2. Jager
              Jager 27 March 2020 20: 17 New
              0
              In fact, a diesel diesel engine is no different from a ship diesel engine; it experiences even tougher loads on a piece of iron. Maybe wrong, correct.
              What to do if Kolomzavod, in addition to its TEP70, supplies diesel to the Bryansk plant. And the fleet of Soviet diesel locomotives is very worn out. But they are changing it quite actively, which cannot but rejoice.
        4. Sergey S.
          Sergey S. 25 March 2020 13: 05 New
          +10
          Quote: Aleksandr72
          And the situation with the production of diesel engines for the fleet will soon discard Russian shipbuilding in the 20-30s of the last century, when new submarines had to be bought in Germany not quite suitable (or not at all suitable for submarines) diesel engines for diesel locomotives.

          What do you!
          In the 1930s, diesel engines were much better!
          Firstly, they bought only good licenses.
          Those diesels. which you call diesel, diesel were for the time being, until the Germans could build a submarine fleet. A motor 42BM (Kolomna name), on the contrary, was originally a boat. and became diesel after the defeat of Germany in the First World War - then they made a diesel locomotive from it.

          In the late 1930s, diesels of their own design, the Russky Diesel and Kolomensky plants, appeared on boats.
          1. Aleksandr72
            Aleksandr72 25 March 2020 13: 30 New
            0
            Diesels for submarines manufactured by Kolomensky Zavod appeared in serial production in the early 30s, but with them, which are analogues of German MAN diesels, which were purchased for the first submarines of type “D”: “Decembrist” and “Narodovolets” under the guise of diesel locomotives (otherwise they would not have been able to be bought at all - international sanctions, as they would say now, were very effective against both Germany and the USSR, and very severe). And the development of these diesel engines in production went with difficulty, which is not surprising - in the country there were no trained personnel, equipment and most importantly experience, everything had to be mastered again.
            “The development of the first Soviet diesel engines went with great difficulties. Back in 1922, the Kuybyshev Kolomensky Zavod concluded an agreement with the German company MAN for a period of ten years to provide technical assistance in organizing the production of diesel engines. For the first Soviet submarines of the Decembrist type F6V brands (four pieces) were purchased from the same company, and at the same time they launched production under the 42B / BM6 brand in Kolomna. The 6BM42 diesel engine with Buchi supercharger was tested on the L-6 Karbonariy submarine. It was not possible to achieve an increase in power, maintenance of engines in the compartment was impossible, air temperature increased significantly, and the device had to be temporarily abandoned. Using technical solutions 42B / BM6 for boats of medium and small displacement in the early 30s, they developed a 38V8 diesel engine in 685 l .s, subsequently boosted to 800 hp and produced under the brand name 38K8.
            The first samples of these motors had a number of defects: 42B / BM6 had a rapidly wearing gear transmission of the camshafts and often failed valves of the circulation pumps; at 38B8, after 200-300 hours of operation, the babbitt crashed out of the bearings, due to the rapid wear of the springs, levers and valve sleeves, the gas distribution on the cylinders was upset, the nozzles quickly rusted. Later in production, these defects were eliminated, but the plants were reluctant to eliminate them on already commissioned engines. For submarines of the Pravda type, M10V diesels were again purchased from MAN. The development of a new project of a medium-sized submarine (future type C) in collaboration with the Deschimag company made it possible to continue acquaintance with German diesel engineering. The development of a domestic analogue of the M6V engine by the Kolomensky Zavod (47LN8 brand) is behind schedule. Started in 1935 under the leadership of N.M. Urvantseva, she did not give the desired result a year later, and only in 1938, after a serious revision of the design, under the designation 1D, a new model was launched into mass production. "

            Now everything seems to be there: trained personnel, plants and equipment, experience and proven designs. There is not only the main thing - desire and state will to translate all this into the engines so needed by the fleet. Buying abroad is easier - from the same MAN (more expensive and better quality) or from the Chinese (copies are worse and cheaper).
            1. Jager
              Jager 27 March 2020 20: 27 New
              0
              I will say so! The experimental batch of diesel locomotives 2TE25AM was equipped with a German MTU diesel generator. He could not bear our realities in comparison with the native Kolomensky diesel engine.
        5. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 25 March 2020 17: 36 New
          +5
          Quote: Aleksandr72
          . And now?

          And now, in order to move things off the ground, first of all, it is necessary to exponentially put directors below the listed enterprises -
          PJSC "Zvezda", the 51st Central Design and Technology Institute of Ship Repair (CKTIS) and Kingisepp Machine-Building Plant. For disrupting the production of diesel engines for warships, which led to a decrease in the defense capability of Russia. The only way. Otherwise, the courts will continue, but there will never be diesel engines.
        6. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 25 March 2020 18: 59 New
          +3
          Lord, what is it about the “power plant of a warship” that you cannot scale a diesel locomotive, or is it to send a spy to Bangladesh, where old ships are cut on the beach, and he will take a picture of the engine of a cut tanker there? And even on his raft, for two hundred dollars, will be taken to neutral waters? .. Is he golden, or what?
          1. Seaflame
            Seaflame 25 March 2020 23: 51 New
            +6
            The engines for tankers and warships are sharpened for different requirements, very different ideologies and TK ...
            By the way, with the engines for merchant ships, even in Soviet times, it was not very, merchant ships that were built at domestic shipyards were mainly equipped with a foreign engine: Sulzer, Burmeister and Vine, Vyartsilya, Man. In Bryansk, marine diesel engines were made under the Manovsky license, but production was finally closed in the 00s.
            1. Arthur 85
              Arthur 85 26 March 2020 09: 26 New
              0
              Sorry ... At BMZ, probably? I’m just writing again in the sense that yes, we don’t know how to make engines for ships. Well, the Indians probably performed some kind of ritual in their cemetery, but they made a mistake with the address, and instead of Europe they cursed our diesel engines. And yes, probably a ship with an engine from a diesel locomotive will be 10% heavier, 2 knots slower and 10 meters longer. And a sailor with a canister, running from the tank to the tanks of this engine, will quickly wear out the outlines. But while we wait for a beautiful engine that meets the requirements, there will be no ships at all.
        7. nickname7
          nickname7 26 March 2020 13: 14 New
          +4
          Zvezda’s capacities do not allow producing M507 diesels for the MRK series of project 22800 in the quantities necessary to fully meet the needs

          Compared to thousands of diesel engines per month at some MAN plant, Zvezda is a semi-handicraft factory, where 8 units a year are not possible to produce. The Russian Federation has gone from industry to manufactories in 30 years.
        8. mmaxx
          mmaxx 9 May 2020 07: 32 New
          0
          In Soviet times, our diesels were not the best. And here a quarter of a century did not give a spear for development. They gave and immediately wanted a diesel engine with a capital letter. This does not happen. And no effective managers have anything to do with it. No equipment or worn to the limit, no people. Including chiefs. Loss of competency is called.
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 31 New
        +4
        will lawyers work at sea instead of ships?

        Lawyers on guard of the country's defense ... A nightmare. But is it a dream?

        Were D.F.Ustinov, the youngest Stalin’s People’s Commissar, such an “effective manager” who now runs the defense industry, and the whole state, would he become the Marshal of the USSR and the Minister of Defense?

        More precisely, would you live?



        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 25 March 2020 07: 37 New
          +25
          Now so effective ....
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 41 New
            +12
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            Now so effective ....


            I think this analogy is also appropriate.



            Or the ancient issue of the magazine "Crocodile".

            1. Uncle lee
              Uncle lee 25 March 2020 07: 43 New
              +2
              The photo is wrong! Judging by the robe, these are all hard workers, but effective. managers could not organize the work! And they are sitting in the offices!
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 46 New
                +2
                Quote: Uncle Lee
                The photo is wrong!

                True, true! yes
                (In secret, and only you wink !) - the directive "from above" arrived, to be closer to the people.

                Mimic ...
                1. Uncle lee
                  Uncle lee 25 March 2020 07: 50 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Insurgent
                  closer to the people.

                  Crocodile version is more realistic!
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 54 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Uncle Lee
                    Crocodile version is more realistic!

                    I will not argue.
                    I just want to note that the caricature in the magazine,Soviet period, and then there was such a misfortune as a bureaucrat.
                    But then with this, with varying degrees of success, they fought, and now ...
                    1. Mestny
                      Mestny 25 March 2020 09: 39 New
                      -5
                      And now they are fighting. With varying degrees of success.
                      Right here in VO - there’s such a struggle.
                      1. Insurgent
                        Insurgent 25 March 2020 09: 40 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Mestny
                        And now they are fighting. With varying degrees of success.
                        Right here in VO - there’s such a struggle.

                        This is not about "local battles", but about state policy.
              2. alexmach
                alexmach 25 March 2020 12: 05 New
                0
                The photo is wrong! Judging by the robe, it's all hard workers

                Well, seriously and in the top photo, not a single hard worker can continuously dig a ditch with a shovel during the day. On this they drip in turn, one drips 5 rest, then someone replaces him and he goes to rest ....

                In the photo, the problem is not really management, but the lack of mechanization of labor ....
            2. Ovrag
              Ovrag 25 March 2020 13: 32 New
              -3
              The first picture always caused a laugh. Because the person clearly does not understand how it works.
              Human Resources - looking for frames.
              Find a good marketer ... In general, an impossible task.
              Good logistician. The same incredibly valuable shot. Especially in Russia where to put it mildly. Distances hoo. And you still can’t get everywhere (in our office there was a logistician, just a miracle worker. Managed to load loads on the winter roads right in the butt, when they were closed right behind the machine).
              Without a good IT specialist, in 2020 there is nothing for any more or less modern company to do.
              Etc. Units In our time, some of these professions live quite well on outsourcing.
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 25 March 2020 10: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Insurgent
          Were D.F.Ustinov, the youngest Stalin’s People’s Commissar, such an “effective manager” who now runs the defense industry, and the whole state, would he become the Marshal of the USSR and the Minister of Defense?

          laughing Ustinov did such things, which modern managers cannot even dream of !!!!! Now he would definitely be given the title "Honored Manager of All Time" .. well, if you survived!
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 25 March 2020 11: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: Serg65
            Ustinov did such things, which modern managers cannot even dream of!

            Not "cranked", but SYSTEM OF STATE AUTHORITY inspired, motivated and funded.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 25 March 2020 11: 13 New
              +5
              Quote: Insurgent
              He didn’t “crank” himself, but the SYSTEM OF STATE AUTHORITY inspired, motivated and financed.

              The system of state power did not force Ustinov to put pressure on his subordinates in terms of receiving a defense order with large imperfections for the sake of premiums for the military-industrial complex ... which ultimately resulted in huge financial costs for the state !!!!
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent 25 March 2020 11: 17 New
                0
                Quote: Serg65
                The system of state power did not force Ustinov to put pressure on his subordinates in terms of receiving a defense order with large imperfections for the sake of premiums for the military-industrial complex ... which ultimately resulted in huge financial costs for the state !!!!

                Do you want to convince me of what I wrote above?

                If you do not understand, then I again, separately, I repeat that the military-industrial complex (like any other industry) does not rot with a cleaner in the drawing department, but a little higher.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 26 March 2020 01: 35 New
                  -1
                  Colleague, do not try to convince the rat that she is "somewhat wrong." It won’t reach her.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 26 March 2020 01: 49 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Colleague, do not try to convince the rat ...

                    Mdya ... they say that it is human nature to make mistakes. But twice in five words - this is already something inhuman, I would say yes

                    PS: I'm not talking about spelling.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 26 March 2020 01: 53 New
                      +2
                      Daddy, I adore you. Finally, we really miss you. love
                      And Threat - what is this?
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 26 March 2020 02: 17 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Daddy, I adore you

                        These are all expanders of consciousness, and other antiseptics. With excessive use lead to aberrations of consciousness. By morning will pass ... must pass yes

                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And Threat - what is this?

                        This is a clarification so that you are not confused with words. At five you managed to get around, and I have three times more request
        3. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 25 March 2020 11: 14 New
          +2
          Also quite “effective”. No, not that little would have been done with him, but there was a lot of stupidity, inconsistency and nepotism. In short - the price of exorbitant achievements. Could have been much smaller and much better. As the poet Egor Isaev said:
          Of course Horst, there are no graves here,
          But here is the beginning of them.
        4. mmaxx
          mmaxx 9 May 2020 07: 34 New
          0
          Then there were other tools and opportunities. In a flourishing democracy, doing something is no less a feat than after the war.
    2. lucul
      lucul 25 March 2020 10: 34 New
      +2
      A new breed of Russian managers puts "optimization" at the forefront, every possible reduction in production costs, an increase in profits and their income

      It’s high time to get involved in motor engineering, machine tools, and microelectronics. And thoroughly clean these Augean stables from the liberals. Fundamental support of these industries from the state is required. But first, put things in order there ...
      1. Elturisto
        Elturisto 25 March 2020 11: 29 New
        -2
        Do who interferes with the Constitution?
    3. Sailor
      Sailor 25 March 2020 13: 23 New
      0
      My applause! All bullets are unfortunately on target.
    4. ava09
      ava09 26 March 2020 07: 23 New
      0
      Not some breed of Russian menager wrote the laws of capitalism. The main purpose of which is Profit, and at any cost. "Optimization" is one of the signs of profit-making (embezzlement, theft).
    5. Titus
      Titus 26 March 2020 14: 06 New
      0
      It seems so that at the beginning of the century, from the west, we started a trend for lawyers, economists and other non-creating professions, because before that they destroyed the education in engineering and even simply vocational schools. So, lawyers do not eat their bread in vain, but we are reaping the consequences of the collapse of Soviet education.
  2. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 25 March 2020 06: 09 New
    +9
    I am not an expert on marine diesels, but probably someone can explain why these go without smoke:

    and here, even at the parade, the train eats away its eyes:
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 25 March 2020 06: 26 New
      +9
      why these go without smoke:
      just warmed up, serviceable, at cruising speed (without "afterburner")
    2. DMB 75
      DMB 75 25 March 2020 06: 36 New
      +18
      Here is a simple rule for classifying ship smoke:
      "Gray smoke is oil, white smoke is water, black smoke is fuel."
      Now, if something leaks into your cylinders from the cooling system, if you have oil scraper or compression rings that are required to keep the oil out of the combustion chamber, or if the fuel mixture is re-enriched, which causes unburned fuel to remain in the exhaust, then your the engine runs somewhere very far from the optimal modes, losing power, wearing out and consuming "excess" fuel. But when driving on the high seas and at full speed - black (blue, white) smoke is, unfortunately, a sign that that ship engine I installation suffers from one of these sores: it eats and burns oil, evaporates completely inappropriate water or "drinks" excess fuel, throwing soot into the sky, as it were. engine or boiler: at this moment the ship’s power plant is usually “cold” and there are a lot of transients in it. Sometimes it can only be an instantaneous ejection of fuel mixture or condensate from the exhaust pipes, but sometimes it’s possible to “raise it to fame”.
      Americans smoke too


      USS Freedom LCS – 1, 2006 US release, breeds couples in San Diego Bay.
      1. 30143
        30143 25 March 2020 07: 02 New
        +10
        Either transient mode or TA with regulators does not work out. A complex problem, however.
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: DMB 75
        Now, if something leaks into your cylinders from the cooling system, if you have oil scraper or compression rings that are required to keep the oil out of the combustion chamber, or if the fuel mixture is re-enriched, which causes unburned fuel to remain in the exhaust, then your the engine runs somewhere very far from the optimum conditions, losing power, wearing out and consuming "excess" fuel.

        And in the case of GTZA?
        After all, as a rule, classic diesel is used on ships of small, and in rare cases, the middle class ...
      3. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 25 March 2020 07: 40 New
        +10
        And here is my former 1926 steamboat, a steam engine, on liquid fuel, in the ice
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 25 March 2020 07: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          And here is my former 1926 steamboat, a steam engine, on liquid fuel, in the ice

          Until what year was he in service? And what is the matter with him now?
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 25 March 2020 07: 56 New
            +8
            I worked on it in 68-69 ... Gone on the nails in the 80s ...
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent 25 March 2020 08: 00 New
              +1
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              I worked on it in 68-69 ... Gone on the nails in the 80s ...

              Yes, from 1926 to 1968, for a boat age ...
              1. Uncle lee
                Uncle lee 25 March 2020 08: 02 New
                +5
                "He was an iron guy, with a strong bottom" ....
                V. Vysotsky.
                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent 25 March 2020 08: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Uncle Lee
                  "He was an iron guy, with a strong bottom" ....
                  V. Vysotsky.

                  For a long time I have not seen information about the oldest ship of the Russian Navy (USSR) (not counting the cruiser Aurora) - the Commune.
                  I wonder what happened to him now? I will search the network. I want to know.
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent 25 March 2020 08: 08 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Insurgent
                    For a long time I have not seen information about the oldest ship of the Russian Navy (USSR) (not counting the cruiser Aurora) - the Commune.
                    I wonder what happened to him now?


                    Found ! Lives! good
                    1. Romka47
                      Romka47 25 March 2020 11: 46 New
                      +2
                      She will survive all of us, together with the aforementioned RTOs, only the “new” rot there, all the old details like a century ago. I wouldn’t make a League with a oak tree ..
                  2. Uncle lee
                    Uncle lee 25 March 2020 08: 12 New
                    +2
                    "Commune" (until 1922 - "Volkhov") - a naval auxiliary vessel of the Navy of the Russian Federation (Russian Navy), a rescue boat for submarines, a catamaran in design. The oldest ship of the Russian Navy, and the oldest ship in the world, actually in service and performing combat missions. Now it is part of the Black Sea Fleet. Passed modernization, equipped with an underwater robot Alive smoking room!
                  3. Sailor
                    Sailor 25 March 2020 13: 28 New
                    +2
                    During my service, Streletskaya stood in the PSS brigade in our bay.
      4. 3danimal
        3danimal 27 March 2020 00: 22 New
        0
        Freedom has 2 gas turbine engines and 2 diesel engines. Smoke - when you start the latter, in the normal mode of operation - it is already gone.
    3. Cruorvult
      Cruorvult 25 March 2020 06: 55 New
      +13
      Because Nimitz has two nuclear reactors, and every Ticonderoger and Berkov have gas turbine units.
  3. 30143
    30143 25 March 2020 06: 23 New
    +14
    However, wrecking! Or forgot how to build. Now it’s fashionable to talk about the loss of competence.
    And the courts are needed in order to wind up the issue. If you trace the algorithm, it turns out that there is no documentation. Somewhere they reported what is and can, but it turned out, as always.
    We must turn to the Chinese comrades. They definitely will.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 25 March 2020 06: 55 New
      +6
      But how is it possible now, if not through the courts? The question is to bring to justice those who are guilty, and not switchmen ....
      For anyone, we don’t have a comrade in penny right now and there is SOMEONE to speed up, streamline the process!
      1. 30143
        30143 25 March 2020 07: 00 New
        +5
        Then stock up on popcorn and watch.
        Naturally, the question is ripening, but why raise this topic, since nothing can be done. Is that to force, to choke.
        Here I am in this case interested in the question to the author of the article - what is the material for?
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 25 March 2020 07: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: 30143
          Is that to force, to choke.

          "normal, normal" butting. Two groups - “ooh-ooh-oh, everything is gone”, against “cheers-we’ll tear everyone like a hot-water bottle”!
          Nothing and never NEW.
        2. maksbazhin
          maksbazhin 25 March 2020 11: 13 New
          0
          At first, I thought about what the article was about, the specifics are few and no one is to blame for what to do. Nevertheless, the problem must be brought to the media space, and not hushed up. Maybe then someone will stir somewhere. Unfortunately, lately no one has been working until the noise rises. Specifically, people in civilian clothes should come and find out who in fact sabotages and REMOVE, and do not wait for the trial.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 25 March 2020 12: 29 New
            0
            who is to blame for what to do

            Come on
            who is to blame - judging by the article "Star"
            what to do is probably to restore in full the design documentation, preferably in digital format. And also to establish production in Kingisep. Well, apparently, the construction program of Karakurt will also have to be revised .. In any case, do not lay new ones.
            1. common man
              common man 25 March 2020 18: 56 New
              +2
              Quote: alexmach
              what to do - probably restore the design documentation in full,

              In my opinion, the only way out is to build a new ship diesel engine plant. Modern, state. May try to buy a license for a "foreign" diesel. And with the Star, porridge can no longer be cooked. They decided that they could not do without them, and didn’t bother much. Spin on horseradish, if the owners of bread with caviar are enough from a fat "defense" pie. Leave them without orders, maybe then they will spin.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 25 March 2020 20: 20 New
                +3
                And with the Star, porridge can no longer be cooked

                Well, for example, you can roll them a fine penalty for the failure of the defense order, and on this basis to nationalize? Moreover, this can be done with the breaking of utensils, but you can probably "amicably." There is no need to build a new state plant either.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 25 March 2020 22: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: alexmach
                  There is no need to build a new state plant either.

                  The idea is interesting, but the question is to what extent everything is bad. It may turn out to be better indeed from scratch
      2. Bashkirkhan
        Bashkirkhan 25 March 2020 07: 56 New
        +7
        Quote: rocket757
        But how is it possible now, if not through the courts? The question is to bring to justice those who are guilty, and not switchmen ....

        At "Karakurt" are 507 diesel engines, which began to produce 53 years ago in the USSR. For we do not have the best, these engines suit shipbuilders, the problem is in insufficient volumes and failure to meet deadlines. Zvezda can produce only one set of 3 M507 diesels per year. And you need 9 sets per year. The contract for the supply of 507 diesel engines with shipbuilding enterprises was concluded under Pavel Garievich Plyvnik, co-owner and chairman of the board of directors of the Zvezda engine plant. Fin assured that he could deliver the diesel engine on time according to the contract. But even then it became clear that the production capabilities of the enterprise were not enough. As a result, all the deadlines were broken, the shipyards were fined by the Ministry of Defense.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 25 March 2020 08: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          But even then it became clear that the production capabilities of the enterprise were not enough. As a result, all the deadlines were broken, the shipyards were fined by the Ministry of Defense.

          It is not logical to promise when it is UNDERSTANDED that the promise will not be fulfilled ... what is this? some kind - No matter how or Avos? ...
          in short, one cannot understand this with the mind ... all the more, we (the majority) do not know the realities.
          Therefore, I always remind you that someone who understands the topic in general should understand. Punish the guilty, encourage those who do as they should.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 25 March 2020 09: 33 New
            +8
            Quote: rocket757
            Punish the guilty, encourage those who do as they should

            You do not understand the principle of the system.
            It should be punished innocent, rewarded those not involved. Otherwise, everything will collapse.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 25 March 2020 09: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              You do not understand the principle of the system.
              It should be punished innocent, rewarded those not involved. Otherwise, everything will collapse.

              I would like to say that this is an option from the looking glass, BUT, I carefully look at our reality and now I can not say that we are in the right plane!
              Something like this.
          2. donavi49
            donavi49 25 March 2020 09: 42 New
            +10
            Is logical. They took the money for the entire contract. Mastered. The directors were thrown out of the chair for disrupting the GOZ. But now Pavel Plavnik is not engaged in useful physical labor in ecologically clean regions of Siberia, but is quietly engaged in entrepreneurial activity.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 25 March 2020 09: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: donavi49
              Logical.

              It is, through the looking glass! Which side we are on, you won’t understand. All the "settings" have gone astray.
            2. Bashkirkhan
              Bashkirkhan 25 March 2020 12: 03 New
              +4
              Quote: donavi49
              But now Pavel Plavnik is not engaged in useful physical labor in ecologically clean regions of Siberia, but is quietly engaged in entrepreneurial activity.

              If you start to squeeze it, the Fin will leave for Israel. It is more striking that only under these empty promises did serious uncles from the Ministry of Defense sharply increase the state defense order for shipbuilders Zelenodolsk, Pella, and Sredne-Nevsky Shipyard. The budget regularly spent additional funds on this. At the shipyards, they began to build at an accelerated pace the hulls of Karakurt, Alexandrite and Lightning, which, as it now turns out, have absolutely nothing to fill.
              The photo below is a photo of the Molniya missile boat of project 12418 at the Vympel shipyard (Rybinsk). October 2019 Housing from unfinished, add-on and filling new. It is in line for diesels. And “Karakurt” has priority there.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 25 March 2020 13: 08 New
                +5
                If you start to squeeze it, the Fin will leave for Israel.

                Well, purely theoretically, you can press it faster than he has time to leave ... only this doesn’t solve the whole problem. Something needs to be done with production. Practice shows production cannot work efficiently under the current ownership scheme.
            3. Sergey S.
              Sergey S. 25 March 2020 13: 31 New
              +5
              Quote: donavi49
              Is logical. They took the money for the entire contract. Mastered. The directors were thrown out of the chair for disrupting the GOZ. But now Pavel Plavnik is not engaged in useful physical labor in ecologically clean regions of Siberia, but is quietly engaged in entrepreneurial activity.

              The new owner of PJSC "Star" SINARA has not invested anything.
              The result is announced.

              The only solution is to restore the "Star", and this is the restoration of squandered production capacities and investing in personnel - engineers and workers.

              Today there is no Design Bureau at the plant, I don’t remember the chief designer for how many years. Orientation to managerial managers should be recognized as sabotage.
              Without special education, such complex technologies cannot be allowed.

              For reference. A modern diesel engine can create about as many states as it can build a spacecraft or nuclear installation. Until we have all the personnel extinct, we would have to revive production.

              Today, there are practically no alternatives to Zvezda motors for small ships.
              Foreign engines are getting heavier, and gas turbine engines are all with frantic fuel consumption.

              The "star" must be revived.

              KMZ got into the problem because of the stupidity of its own managers.
              What hangover did they decide to give the blueprints, and we will build ????
              As a rule, the working drawings of technologists, brought up under the conditions of real production, are not included in the archives. They are workshop technologists ...
              For exactly the same reasons, the 51st Institute will not help them, that is, they will use the money. and the result of evacuation will receive by the second coming ...

              And if the managers will also bring new technologies at the same time. then it’s not going to be up to a diesel engine .... But this is about grant-eating.

              Allegorical wish P.G. Fin is worthy of translating into reality.
          3. nickname7
            nickname7 26 March 2020 13: 50 New
            +3
            It is not logical to promise when it is UNDERSTANDED that the promise will not be fulfilled ... what is this?

            On the contrary, everything is logical, an order is money, the more the better.

            in short, the mind does not understand this ...

            This is wild capitalism, about the lack of planning that the liberals deny. But it is necessary, for example, 5 years before the order, to offer a long-term plan to the plant, since the inertia for the development of production is large, you need to plan ahead. Give the plant time to purchase machines and equipment, and then give the order for 10 years. Then everything will be.
            In general, you need either a credit pump-up with cheap manufacturer loans, with a guaranteed package of orders, or you need a state plan and a military development program.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 26 March 2020 14: 21 New
              +1
              Planning is everywhere, to one degree or another ... that’s the proper responsibility for not fulfilled, this question hangs in the air, we have it for sure.
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 25 March 2020 08: 28 New
      +8
      Quote: 30143
      However, wrecking! Or forgot how to build. Now it’s fashionable to talk about the loss of competence.

      Capitalism! the star does not want to transfer the documentation to KMZ, because it is a competitor. If KMZ faster than the Star will cope with the work, all orders will go there. Therefore, we ourselves do poorly, but we will not let others!
      1. Evil
        Evil 25 March 2020 13: 22 New
        +6
        "Star" is the owner of the design documentation, for some reason it must be FREE to transfer it to some LLC consisting of 3 sheds in the village !!!! All over the world the documentation is SOLD under a licensing agreement and only with us it must be given free !!! But the whole point of this decision is that KMZ belongs to the son of General GAREEV and to the criminal with experience Danilenko with two convictions !!!! They already under this contract redeemed at the price of scrap metal all the remaining stocks of Star Diesel engines. So right before our eyes is just a raider seizure of PJSC "STAR". And the asset there is a tasty one of 66 hectares of land in St. Petersburg with its promenade !!!!! I will not be surprised that in a few years the whole plant will move to the village of Zimititsy, where it will die peacefully by the year 25 ....
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 25 March 2020 13: 49 New
          0
          and PJSC "STAR" to whom belongs ?! There, the owner changed not so long ago, including management.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 March 2020 13: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: Evil
          "Star" is the owner of the design documentation, for some reason, it must be FREE to transfer it to some LLC consisting of 3 sheds in the village !!!!

          Because Zvezda entered into an agreement with KMZ.
          On December 21, 2018, the plaintiff and the defendant entered into a contract that provided for the manufacture and supply of diesel products for the acquisition of the order of the head. No. 805 of project 22800.

          If KMZ had to manufacture the product by the order of Zvezda, the Customer had to provide documentation for the product so that the Contractor could produce exactly what the Customer required - and not motor mechanic Polesov.
          If you know the method of production without CD and TD - share. wink
  4. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 25 March 2020 06: 46 New
    +2
    The questions are correct, but why put a photo of Ushakova with boiler turbines to the article !?
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 25 March 2020 07: 15 New
    +6
    And the reason for the non-fulfillment of the contract, it turns out, was the completely delayed transfer of technological documentation. In general, Zvezda was supposed to transfer documents to the engines back in 2018, but for some reason did not.
    ....And why? Didn’t pass the documents? ... Conclude an agreement, execute .... You see, that it doesn’t work, conclude an additional agreement on extension of terms ...
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 25 March 2020 14: 00 New
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      Didn’t pass the documents? ... Conclude an agreement, execute .... You see, that it doesn’t work, conclude an additional agreement on extension of terms ...

      To send and receive documents, again, not managers are needed. and experts ...
      But about the additional agreement, to the point! This managers can ...!?!?!?
  6. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 25 March 2020 07: 15 New
    -4
    And why can’t you put nuclear installations on warships? Why are we still using diesel? It’s the same as if in the 40s of the 20th century Soviet warships would be built with steam engines on coal.
    1. novel66
      novel66 25 March 2020 07: 45 New
      +6
      nuclear installation - for large ships, but we do not build such crying
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 25 March 2020 07: 51 New
        -3
        The dimensions of the current nuclear power plants make it possible to install them on frigates and destroyers.
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 25 March 2020 08: 06 New
          +4
          In the United States, 90 nuclear-powered cruisers were cut in the 6s, since nuclear weapons are too expensive to operate. A nuclear power plant, together with its cooling circuits and hundreds of tons of biological protection, takes up MUCH more space than the engine room of a conventional cruiser. However, it will not be possible to completely abandon the ordinary power plant in favor of nuclear power plants: according to accepted safety standards, emergency nuclear power generators are on all nuclear powered ships and there are fuel reserves. Its use is justified only on nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers. The US Navy preferred to build relatively inexpensive, but numerous destroyers with a gas turbine power plant. The article generally deals with RTOs of 800 tons. A promising development of Afrikantov Design Bureau - the “compact” nuclear reactor RITM-200 for the nuclear icebreaker LK-60Ya under construction has a mass of 2200 tons (a combination of two reactors).
        2. Eug
          Eug 25 March 2020 09: 01 New
          +3
          Nuclear reactors need steam turbines. God forbid that they, with qualified operators on the submarines with the Eagles, were enough ....
          1. Victor Leningradets
            Victor Leningradets 25 March 2020 11: 27 New
            +3
            Steam turbines with a capacity of 25 - 70 thousand hp Kirov Plant issued up to 16 pcs. per year., And boilers SKBK will issue up to two pcs. per month for orders of 10 years.
            I already wrote that ships need to be built quickly and massively, and what kind of power plant they have is not even a second question. Simply, if you have a large series on the stream and cooperation has been established, then you can easily improve your product, including replace the power plant on newly laid ships. The main thing is that the design chain - technological support - production - operation should not be broken by brainless management.
            It is possible to build also with gas turbine units (temporarily), but the fuel in the bases is gas turbine, in order to switch to gas turbines later.
            1. Eug
              Eug 25 March 2020 14: 57 New
              0
              Keywords - "a large series on the stream and cooperation has been established" ...
    2. Grits
      Grits 25 March 2020 09: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      And why can’t you put nuclear installations on warships?

      I am also a supporter of nuclear facilities. There are, of course, disadvantages - cost, complexity of service, etc. But there are a whole bunch of pluses. And most importantly, unlike all other engines, we can do atomic very well. Including compact.
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 25 March 2020 11: 30 New
        +3
        All true.
        They adopted the directive that all destroyers will now be at 10000 T both with nuclear power plants and forward. in large-scale construction, everything will pay off due to unification and ease of maintenance (no fuel overloads). The main thing is to have enough carriers of weapons on the marine theater.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 March 2020 13: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      And why can’t you put nuclear installations on warships? Why are we still using diesel?

      Because on corvettes, RTOs and minesweepers AEU will not fit. A diesel power plant goes just to small ships.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 26 March 2020 00: 40 New
        +1
        .
        Because on corvettes, RTOs and minesweepers AEU will not fit. A diesel power plant goes just to small ships.

        Nonsense. Even in the 60s they created compact nuclear warheads, which were put on airplanes during experiments on testing aircraft with atomic engines.
        1. Grits
          Grits 26 March 2020 09: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Nonsense. Even in the 60s they created compact nuclear warheads, which were put on airplanes during experiments on testing aircraft with atomic engines.

          They even set up a nuclear installation on space satellites. So what about nonsense - you correctly noticed
  7. V.I.P.
    V.I.P. 25 March 2020 08: 12 New
    -1
    You can get engines on barter. GDP to be agreed with PARTNERS. We amer our own RD for missiles, they are engines for us for small ships. They use them to launch military satellites, but we’ll put them on RTOs. Profitable and no lawyers))))
    1. nickname7
      nickname7 26 March 2020 14: 03 New
      0
      You can get engines on barter. GDP to be agreed with PARTNERS. We amer our own RD for missiles, they are engines for us for small ships.

      Do you want someone dear to deprive the currency of the taxiway? Which will be more important for your ships, because for real dollars you can buy a villa in Monaco.
  8. EvilLion
    EvilLion 25 March 2020 08: 14 New
    0
    We do not need hammers, we need hammered nails, but without hammers, nails cannot be hammered.

    And yet, the ship, it is under the bed of a bed patient, and in the navy a ship.
  9. Cyrus
    Cyrus 25 March 2020 08: 49 New
    +1
    A few sentences with the highest measure and magically the situation will begin to improve.
    1. Gust
      Gust 25 March 2020 09: 33 New
      +7
      Ryabov, as always in his repertoire ..
      The situation on the Star should have been clear to military representatives. Not to see the difference in capacities 9 (!) Times - how is it? If there was a settlement for the second plant, then it was also needed in the contract with the contractor with the prescribed procedure. If the Star and military representatives are blown away, then for the cause.
      It is necessary to install Kolomna diesels, and switch to full electric movement. As I understand it, there are problems with reverse gear units, couplings, etc. Take diesel engines from locomotives, modify them a bit (the so-called wetting), the main electric motors from Varshavyanka or the Lada project. These units are being built in large batches, there should be no problems. And yes, it will be necessary to spend money on redesigning, but then do not have such problems.
      1. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 25 March 2020 11: 33 New
        +3
        Way too!
        There is a desire - a thousand possibilities, no desire - a thousand reasons.
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 25 March 2020 13: 12 New
        +4
        Will not go.
        Kolomna makes only medium turnover. They spin 5000 horses there at 1000 revolutions.
        The star makes monsters with a bunch of cylinders that burn like matches (a resource is three times less than that of Kolomna), but they give out 7-8000 horseshoes at high speeds. It is also lighter / more compact than that of Kolomna.

        Even if you redo the design of the machine, under the clef, then what to do with driving characteristics? They will fall significantly.

        Electric propulsion is generally fantastic for industry. The first ship with this technology in the Russian Navy will be Mercury. Not soon. And yes, this still does not cancel the running characteristics. RTOs with a stroke of 12-14 knots - such a navy is not necessary. Faster, you need an afterburner turbine (like others do) or diesels, or additional electric motors and generating power for this.
        1. Gust
          Gust 25 March 2020 19: 33 New
          +3
          On MRK, a running diesel of less power per screw is mechanical, plus an afterburner turbine. This scheme has really worked well. The economic move under a diesel engine of 14 knots is quite acceptable. On the corvette, there are no problems with the diesel engine based on 16CHN26 / 26, or 20CHN26 / 26 (2A-5D49, etc.). Its weight, together with the running engine, is about 80-100 tons. If you subtract the weight of the Star’s crafts, it’s 50 -70 tons of everything that with a displacement of the corvette 1500-2000 tons is 2-3%. So go.
          Kolomna has some interesting developments regarding the alliance for locomotive diesels of type 16CHN32 / 32. This line can generally be up to 10-12 thousand hp. disperse without problems and do not lick on MTU, Wärtsilu, Semt-Pilstik, Cummins and other caterpillars. But the principle is the same everywhere — motivated specialists should guide, not defective managers.
        2. nickname7
          nickname7 26 March 2020 14: 21 New
          0
          Will not go.
          Kolomna makes only medium turnover. They spin 5000 horses there at 1000 revolutions.


          Electricity is very flexible and scalable, with the help of inverter transformers and converters, you can get any number of revolutions on the screws, regardless of the diesel revolutions, the main thing is that there is enough power. Two - three units of 5 thousand hp, on the shaft and there will be 20-30 thousand hp per ship, but not enough, you can still scale.
      3. Sergey S.
        Sergey S. 25 March 2020 13: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Rafale
        It is necessary to install Kolomna diesels, and switch to full electric movement.

        How easy !!!
        Drown MRK with electric motion.
      4. nickname7
        nickname7 26 March 2020 14: 06 New
        0
        and switch to full electric movement.

        That's right, get away from mechanical gears on electric, generator-electric motors
  10. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 25 March 2020 09: 26 New
    +8
    Remember, Lisa Peskova said that you need to develop legal proceedings? So they develop laughing
  11. itarnmag
    itarnmag 25 March 2020 09: 57 New
    +4
    These leaders should not be planted in chairs, but on benches
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 25 March 2020 11: 34 New
      +3
      It would be more correct to use an electric chair, but I am afraid that the true culprits will be replaced by understudies from marginals.
  12. Shadow041
    Shadow041 25 March 2020 10: 10 New
    +6
    Each problem has its own last name! It is necessary to plant the guilty, with confiscation of property, and not engage in boltology! It’s time to nationalize all vital enterprises for a long time and put things in order!
  13. Justme
    Justme 25 March 2020 11: 53 New
    +6
    In the early 2000s, I was engaged electro-assisted supercharged diesel engines.
    Yes ! The result was obtained and very good - there is a report on tests at the Kolomenskoye Machine-Building Plant - for November-December 2005. Among other things, it was obtained - improved fuel combustion due to the correct parameter known as alpha - ratio - air - fuel.
    The initial impetus for the idea comes from an attempt to create the HyperBar system back in the USSR.
    ..But .. That initial attempt was essentially stolen and drowned in irresponsibility for the final result.
    I was given in the late 90s my chance to try to make my own version already - with a budget of a penny and when working on my knee ..
    The layout of this system was tested at the Penza Diesel in the late 90s and performed well.
    Next, we made a more serious version with an adapted control inverter.
    The main test result is a 4.5% improvement in fuel efficiency. But a good military development potential was also noted (for reference - KMZ Chief Designer - Ryzhov).

    .. But - further after obtaining this result there is a subtle hint of thick circumstances.
    The structure of SKB Turbochargers (Penza) - the top - is a manual engaged in plundering the office entrusted to them.
    My role in this whole story was simple - the leadership wanted to essentially try again to cut down the loot and cover the military.

    To whom can I give another link. For example - the General Penza Diesel Plant at that time .. (now he is the Head of Government of our region) .. and he is in the know.
    1. Evil
      Evil 25 March 2020 13: 26 New
      -2
      Lie and do not lie !!!!! There has always been a HEAT-BUILDING PLANT in Kolomna !!!!! Mr. Ryzhov has nothing to do with KMZ. do not interfere in one pile of well-deserved people and excrement.
      1. Justme
        Justme 25 March 2020 14: 24 New
        +3
        By the way, I was on the NTS (scientific and technical council) of TransMashHolding in mid-December 2005 (in Kolomna). At that time, we almost had a result. And he looked better than all the other options that were presented there ...
      2. Justme
        Justme 26 March 2020 10: 56 New
        +3
        @ Zluk
        ".. as a boss, I see our task in that we must grab the money allocated [for this development] ... and the development itself must fail, .. but do it carefully so that they don’t point a finger at us and we had no complaints ... "
        This was said by a figure who in the past was the chief power engineer of the Penza Diesel Plant.
        Zluk, so you say - you need to respect respected people?
    2. Campanella
      Campanella 25 March 2020 14: 53 New
      +2
      I wonder who put you a minus?
      Probably the head of government in your region.
      And I can only wish you good luck and health.
      1. Justme
        Justme 25 March 2020 15: 56 New
        +3
        Although I am now 60, but I work in a large private company and now I have a peak of productivity - I am doing projects to replace the developments of Americans, Israelis and the like.
        For me, controlled turbocharging is now in the past, but the question remains - why did the failure result in the end result?
        It is considered normal for us to talk about the decomposition of the party elite of the late USSR, but in the same way very serious claims can be made against the technical competence structures of our classic enterprises. The processes that go into them, in most cases, fall out of some serious consideration.
        I want to note that I have no complaints about Kolomna, the men there are very positive.
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 25 March 2020 17: 04 New
          +2
          Glad you are in demand. I, unfortunately, also over 60 and no longer work, because after 91 years the defense became unnecessary .. (worked at the Almaz Central Design Bureau, now Almaz Antey)
          I just had to work out of qualifications to feed my family.
          Regarding the lack of demand for some technical solutions, the question is complex. The degradation of the front and it catches not only the political elite, but also the technical intelligentsia. And not at the level of knowledge, but purely human and ideological foundations. So everything is natural. There was Stalin, there were ambitious goals and enthusiasm, but even in those days there were a lot of people for whom the priest and clothes were in priority, there are a dime a dozen here. All the while they whine to eat and there was nothing to dress. And I remember, when I worked, I forgot about food and about time ... the idea was exciting. I do not say that this is correct, but it was so.
  14. NordUral
    NordUral 25 March 2020 12: 08 New
    +4
    As long as these are about power and in the yard we have this thieves' system, everything that we say will be an empty shock of air. Either election victory, or revolution. The prerequisites for this have long been overripe.
  15. for
    for 25 March 2020 12: 15 New
    -1
    It is clear that the situation with ICE can be said, I don’t know how to say it, but the diesel does not smoke in the photo.
  16. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 25 March 2020 13: 28 New
    0
    What would Comrade Stalin do in such a situation?
    1. Campanella
      Campanella 25 March 2020 14: 47 New
      -2
      Comrade Stalin simply could not have such a situation.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 25 March 2020 15: 05 New
        0
        Even as it could especially in construction it was observed.
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 25 March 2020 15: 15 New
          -1
          Examples, can you give references? In the construction of what?
  17. Operator
    Operator 25 March 2020 13: 51 New
    -4
    The hands of the aforementioned diesel builders (from the worker to the manager) have crooked hands, therefore they puff / smoke.
  18. Campanella
    Campanella 25 March 2020 14: 46 New
    +2
    Well, the president said that the disputes of economic entities should be resolved in court. So they are solved.
    Everything is within the framework of the current legislation.
  19. DPN
    DPN 25 March 2020 17: 13 New
    +1
    And what did you do with such "comrades in Soviet times? We must answer for sabotage, we forgot a little, we live in capitalism, therefore MONEY is above all else, the rest is nonsense.
    In general, it looks like the country does not need these two plants.
  20. tank64rus
    tank64rus 25 March 2020 17: 47 New
    0
    "In fact, they were not seated in the chairs of the leaders." Someone has planted, and not to increase the country's defense capability, but maybe it’s time to put them all in another place. And if only the Navy. Now there would be those managers who destroyed the medical institutes of virology, biological and chemical safety, the authors of the "optimizations" of the army and medicine to the answer.
  21. gvozdan
    gvozdan 25 March 2020 18: 18 New
    0
    It is interesting to look at the person who sued for not releasing engines without passing documentation. And what was hoping for
  22. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 25 March 2020 19: 41 New
    0
    You can buy from your Finnish neighbors.
    Finland produces any ship diesel engine: from small to
    the largest in the world.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 25 March 2020 22: 16 New
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Finland makes any ship diesel

      Replacing a diesel engine will require reworking the entire project.
  23. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 25 March 2020 19: 46 New
    +3
    "the situation with the engines for the RTOs of project 22800, which has actually come to a standstill, is unlikely to get out of the deadlock not only by 2021, perhaps the problem will remain a problem in 2022."
    I already reported, since this project is familiar enough to me.
    I won’t lie for others, but for 22800 this is no longer news. Although everyone claims that they are not needed at all on this site.
    Although such issues, I personally will allow to solve the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
    So here. The problem will remain - a problem not only in 2022, but also in 2024. Since (according to intelligence) the deadlines for the delivery of ships executed in the military glory of Feodosia have been postponed to 2025. Why "Pella" and decided to fire them to her. Paying rent to the plant, which will be used stupidly as a garage for three ships ... Several years ... Yes, and the area must be vacated for other orders.
    Here is such a "squiggle." And this was reported by me a year ago. And they are there in the series - Mama Do not Cry! Vladivostok also began at home. Our- went to participate in the fall.
    When they get the engine ... The ship is really morally obsolete.
    1. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 25 March 2020 21: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Benzorez
      Here is such a "squiggle."

      it seems that the information voiced here does not reach Sochi.
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 25 March 2020 21: 08 New
      0
      There are no words. And it seems to be laying them as "what is the opportunity to build"
  24. starshina78
    starshina78 25 March 2020 21: 23 New
    +5
    This example shows that there is no master in the country and no order. The country is in chaos. In order, we only have a talk shop about how everything is fine with us, how we fly fast, walk long and far, shoot accurately, build quickly, but in fact it's zilch! Like everything in the country! What works well in the country is zeroing! And that’s all!
  25. divanka2021
    divanka2021 25 March 2020 22: 54 New
    -1
    articles on the site about the military are informative, but about everything else there is a feeling that students write
  26. Pushkar
    Pushkar 25 March 2020 23: 40 New
    +2
    "In fact, they were not seated in the chairs of the leaders." Yes, they just got put in the wrong place!
  27. Catfish
    Catfish 26 March 2020 01: 04 New
    +1
    Why show off, we don’t have a fleet. NO. Nuclear boats alone are not a fleet, they are a deterrent weapon, but a Navy is not. One leaky “Kuzya” cannot be a serious aircraft carrier formation. It may be enough to chat with our sofas, but seriously take for the skirmon the closest friends of the “guarantor” and himself, those whose yachts are worth more than the entire Black Sea Fleet. You guys aren’t tired of ringing for nothing? But Life is leaving ...
  28. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 26 March 2020 04: 56 New
    0
    Once it comes to disrupting the defense order, the commander in chief must say his word and put everyone in their place, and so this fuss will last indefinitely, as with that Krylovsky cat Vaska who listens and eats.
    1. AnderS
      AnderS 26 March 2020 12: 41 New
      0
      the commander in chief must say his word and put everyone in their place

      Have you not heard? He already said the universal phrase "Please treat with understanding" ...
      And he has no other phrases for you ...
  29. 123456789
    123456789 26 March 2020 09: 47 New
    0
    In fact, they were not put in the chairs of the leaders for that.

    There is even an algorithm for this. It seems amazingly simple.
    If any inconsistencies occur, identify one person on each side. Each plant has a director.
    Then identify the leader in the corporate hierarchy to which both are subordinate. At least to the minister.
    Make an appointment for the three of them. At the meeting, the two sides will present one correct decision, which they agreed on.
    The head will only have to listen and ratify it.
    If the parties do not agree, fire both and designate those that agree.
  30. Vladimir Semak
    Vladimir Semak 26 March 2020 10: 31 New
    +4
    Under Joseph Vissarionovich, the issue would be resolved easier and more efficiently, and both plants would already be ahead of the plan for the production of engines.
  31. AnderS
    AnderS 26 March 2020 12: 23 New
    0
    There is no need to reinvent the wheel. For such cases, there is article 281 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation "Sabotage and sabotage"

    1. The commission of an explosion, arson or other actions aimed at the destruction or damage of enterprises, structures, transport infrastructure and vehicles, communications, livelihoods to undermine the economic security and defense of the Russian Federation, - shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of ten to up to fifteen years.
    2. The same acts: a) committed by an organized group; b) entailing the infliction of significant property damage or the onset of other grave consequences, shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of twelve to twenty years.
    3. The acts provided for in paragraphs one or two of this Section, if they entailed the intentional infliction of death on a person, shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term of fifteen to twenty years or life imprisonment.

    By the way, according to this article, you can safely attract all the “effective owners” of the defense enterprises that have collapsed a lot, both in 90 and later ... It’s interesting why investigative bodies still look through their fingers at everything that happens ... It’s not otherwise because that as any NODovtsy explain to us, everything is completely appointed by the State Department ...
    1. agond
      agond 26 March 2020 21: 42 New
      0
      It seems that they were going to stop the production of dual 112 cylinder marine diesel engines, since there was a simple solution to make the stern of the ship wider and put single 56 cylinder at least ten pieces hardly across the entire width of the transom
      Combining two stars of 56 cylinders into one engine was, to put it mildly, an unfortunate idea, hence all the problems.
  32. Brigadier
    Brigadier 27 March 2020 23: 44 New
    0
    " In general, this should be understood by some gentlemen who, instead of giving the fleet engines, give work to judges and lawyers. In fact, they were not put in the chairs of leaders for that. "

    It turns out interesting ...
    Factories ensuring state security have been without work for a long time, and the “guarantor” has Olympic calmness in this regard ...

    That's when it was necessary to carry out the "pension reform", so he announced to our people without delay and we saw on TV his sad and surprisingly "sincere" eyes when he announced this sentence to all the people of Russia ...

    And here the security of the country is threatened and ... silence ...
    So dead alone with braids will remain ...

  33. Oleg1
    Oleg1 April 1 2020 10: 06 New
    0
    The Russian Navy took the third line of the rating. "The National Interest" notes that the country inherited most of the Soviet fleet.

    Read more: https://ru.armeniasputnik.am/world/20191212/21393892/Nazvany-samye-moschnye-v-mire-floty.html
    Indeed, where are some experts of The National Interest right up to Skomorokhov ....
  34. foxhound
    foxhound April 2 2020 02: 59 New
    0
    Until they start shooting for sabotage, or at least planting them for a long time with confiscation, this disgrace will continue. A whole generation of managers has grown who care only about their wallet.
  35. Plombeer
    Plombeer April 20 2020 10: 55 New
    0
    I don’t know why, but a diesel-electric installation is pretty good in the future, but modern shipbuilders for some reason do not consider these options (maybe they cannot build powerful revving rowing electric motors) and this applies just to the * Star *, on which atomic icebreakers were built and diesel-electric ships, who have been on projects 1135 and 1134 and 1886 will be able to say for sure that ship gas turbine and steam power plants with their huge boilers occupy well, very large areas. And as an example, you can put the Polish BDK and German ships of the 80s diesel engines were put on them, which, when decommissioned, mostly remained very viable. on the project of 1886 there were low-speed rowing electric motors of rather good quality, but there weren’t the necessary 30 knots of travel (maximum 18 and standard 12 knots) somehow, very apart, somehow our military shipbuilding approaches this issue
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. Yurkaza
    Yurkaza 7 June 2020 18: 42 New
    0
    And what to think, on each frigate on five six mercury and forward