Military Review

Bundestag Committees Approve Implementation Plan for MGCS - “European Response” to “Armate”

66

The budget committee and the defense committee of the German parliament (Bundestag) have confirmed the beginning of research and development in the framework of the program for creating a European tank new generation. In fact, we are talking about a single platform, which many experts already call the "European response" "Armate".


We are talking about the MGCS project, which should be embodied in the creation of a modular armored platform for the tank and infantry fighting vehicles. The program is implemented jointly by Germany and France.

It is known that at the first stage (and it will last 1,5 years) it is planned to develop the "architecture" of the future armored car. From the German budget, 75 million euros are allocated to finance the initial stage of work. In the second stage, Berlin plans to allocate 124 million euros.

According to the latest information, financing from the FRG and France will be allocated according to the “50/50 percent” formula.

The following companies will be involved in the project: Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (Germany), Rheinmetall Defense (Germany) and Nexter Systems (France). At the same time, it is known that a partnership has already been established between two of these companies - the KMW & Nexter Defense Systems consortium has been created.

The demonstration version of the future armored car is planned to be presented until 2027. By that time, they plan to finance the program already at the level of up to 1,5 billion euros.

Since 2035, project participants are ready to enter the serial production of a new generation of armored vehicles - a tank and infantry fighting vehicles.

It is planned that the new armored vehicles will eventually replace the existing versions of the Leopard and Leclerc tanks in the armies of Germany and France.

Earlier information appeared in the Polish media that Warsaw was ready to join this European cooperation, but so far could not decide on the amount of funding that could be allocated to the developers.
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  1. Amin_vivec
    Amin_vivec 22 March 2020 13: 50 New
    -18
    What a charm, by 2035, the "Armata" will already be removed from service, and then they kaaak with their new tank will declare themselves)))
    Will it really be able to compete with Armata-2.0?
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 22 March 2020 13: 54 New
      25
      The T-90 has been in service since 1992 and no one will take it out of service in the coming years ... The T-72 is even older. T-14 at least take into service ...
    2. L-39NG
      L-39NG 22 March 2020 14: 15 New
      +3
      They accepted the first one, only the front PR, and you have already come up with the second one. Medal to you.
      1. Amin_vivec
        Amin_vivec 22 March 2020 14: 24 New
        -5
        Do you want to say that in 2035 the "Armata" will remain the same as today?))) You seem to be from Poland, they also think that the T-72 and T-72B3M are the same tank))))
        1. V.I.P.
          V.I.P. 22 March 2020 15: 33 New
          +2
          T-72 and T-72B3M are different in your opinion? The ammunition is the same ...... The sight was better set, but you can't write about it "does not have the same in the world." Because everyone's sights are much better ...
    3. vadim dok
      vadim dok 22 March 2020 14: 35 New
      -6
      Armata ALREADY in serial production and are in service?
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 22 March 2020 14: 39 New
      +4
      Quote: Amin_Vivec
      Will it really be able to compete with Armata-2.0?

      What to compete with? Do not remind, dear, when was the last tank battle?
      For me, the question should be posed wrong ... the question should sound like this: CAN THE NEW BUNDSDER TANK CAN COMPETE WITH THE NEW ATTRACTIONS OF THE RUSSIAN PRODUCTION?
      1. Amin_vivec
        Amin_vivec 22 March 2020 19: 25 New
        +1
        In what? in export deliveries of course)))))
    5. Antidote
      Antidote 22 March 2020 16: 58 New
      +5
      Lol, by 35, at least the current version in the series and the troops were allowed, not in parades.
    6. Alexey from Perm
      Alexey from Perm 22 March 2020 19: 40 New
      +5
      by 2035, Armata will still be tested and brought to mind, or build 1 tank per year
  2. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 22 March 2020 13: 51 New
    +2
    I wonder how this tank will be completed? And How will they produce a tank after the collapse of the European Union?
    1. L-39NG
      L-39NG 22 March 2020 14: 19 New
      -30
      Rather, Russia will fall apart into time zones reset to zero, and we will somehow. Hold on. Not the first time, according to Bolshevik concepts.
      1. ul_vitalii
        ul_vitalii 22 March 2020 14: 33 New
        17
        Periodically hold on to the lever under the belt if at work or under the elastic band from underpants, if at the girlfriend or at home. wink
      2. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 22 March 2020 15: 13 New
        11
        Quote: L-39NG
        Hold on

        Once again, under somebody, licking - this is definitely not the first time for your party.
        1. L-39NG
          L-39NG 22 March 2020 18: 54 New
          -9
          If in history, the Bolsheviks were afraid of ours, because from our legionnaires were ripped off. They said to the stupid Bolsheviks "don't touch us and we won't touch you" but no, the Germans and Austrians had to obey. Remember how the Bolsheviks did not have time to wipe themselves with newspapers, or will you find the truth yourself? And another old anecdote about the newspapers "PRAVDA" and "IZVESTIA" There is no truth in the truth, and there is no truth in the news. And the next thing - Russian gold disappeared after, according to the agreements, the gold was transferred to the Bolsheviks, bastards.
          I am a peaceful, but armed man, if there is a poll, I will be for the prohibition of any Communist Party, and I will decide for the Stalinists, Maoists and Polpot troops myself,

          Any questions for me?
          1. 1976AG
            1976AG 22 March 2020 19: 13 New
            +8
            "Any questions for me?"

            There is. When was the last time you were treated for megalomania?
      3. Ros 56
        Ros 56 22 March 2020 17: 03 New
        +7
        There, around the corner, the lip-filling machine is waiting for you about the collapse.
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 22 March 2020 14: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Tank jacket
      I wonder how this tank will be completed? And How will they produce a tank after the collapse of the European Union?

      You run too far ahead. The project, itself, as such, does not yet exist, only a concept, coordination.
      And how will it continue to be with the tank, and with the European Union with the Euroeconomy, who knows ...
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 22 March 2020 15: 23 New
        +3
        Do you know the abbreviation PIGS?
        And what if Marine Le Pen or someone else in the wake of the crisis with migrants and coronovirus arranges FREXIT?
        1. L-39NG
          L-39NG 22 March 2020 19: 10 New
          -7
          Well, why. My flag. And we think how to fix our European Union, It doesn’t always work out as we want, Well, to the Winner Country, There’s already no such. Germany lives and flourishes, but the USSR no longer exists, so shut up. Tired already.
          1. Tank jacket
            Tank jacket 22 March 2020 19: 29 New
            +1
            And why do the Arabs have tanks, please make jihad mobiles right away wassat
          2. Tank jacket
            Tank jacket 22 March 2020 20: 17 New
            0
            Variants of the latest European tanks ... wassat


            1. freejack
              freejack 23 March 2020 02: 18 New
              +1
              Variants of the latest European tanks

              But it’s quite even telerant ... The question of choosing a weapon for such a tank is not worth it .... in the geyropa, right now it’s not in the trend .... is it in the trend, what kind of urinal should I put? wassat Because of this, they can even delay with the tank! ... hi
  3. Pavel57
    Pavel57 22 March 2020 13: 52 New
    0
    What caliber of the gun will it be?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 22 March 2020 13: 56 New
      +1
      Most likely they will leave the previous 120mm, but constructively provide for a replacement, if that ....
      1. venik
        venik 22 March 2020 14: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Most likely they will leave the previous 120mm, but constructively provide for a replacement, if that ....

        =======
        Rather - 130 mm - the Germans made specifically for the promising tank, because for the existing tank it is heavy ....
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 22 March 2020 20: 32 New
          +2
          But there is no point in putting it. So far, 120mm NATO pierces all that is possible. New BOPS.
          1. venik
            venik 22 March 2020 20: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Zaurbek
            But there is no point in putting it. So far, 120mm NATO pierces all that is possible. New BOPS.

            =======
            Well, they "insured themselves" - the new tank is not yet close to see, but until it appears, you see, and potential opponents of what will arise, that 120 mm (even with new BOPS) will not be enough ...
          2. +5
            +5 23 March 2020 08: 36 New
            -2
            Better than the M829A4 projectile for Rheinmetall it’s almost impossible to do .... so we can only expect German DM to grow to this level .... lengthening to 55 cal in the Germans led to a deterioration in accuracy. And not the fact that the T-90AM will take into the cheekbones of the M829A4 tower. Against Armata need a new gun ...
    2. Tusv
      Tusv 22 March 2020 14: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Pavel57
      What caliber of the gun will it be?

      Intelligence data says it's likely round and definitely not square bully And so the tank tower more than 135 mm can not stand otherwise SAU
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 22 March 2020 14: 10 New
        +4
        Quote: Tusv
        And so the tank tower more than 135 mm can not stand otherwise SAU

        That's Hochma
        Nexter, a French manufacturer of weapons and military equipment, installed a 140-mm high-powered gun on a Leclerc tank.

        Content Source: https://naukatehnika.com/evropejskaya-pushka-protiv-armaty.html
        naukatehnika.com
    3. knn54
      knn54 22 March 2020 14: 39 New
      +2
      It seems that the caliber has not yet been decided - Rheinmetall offers 130 mm, the French require a bigger gun.
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 22 March 2020 16: 19 New
        0
        Quote: knn54
        It seems that the caliber has not yet been decided - Rheinmetall offers 130 mm, the French require a bigger gun

        Gigantomania. Mango has long been outdated. Krasnopol taxis and that is not a fact
  4. Tusv
    Tusv 22 March 2020 13: 55 New
    +7
    Exaggerate of course. But crossing Leclerc with Leopard will be the most expensive tank, equal to three Armats at a price
  5. Legat_01
    Legat_01 22 March 2020 14: 00 New
    10
    Quote: Amin_Vivec
    What a charm, by 2035, the "Armata" will already be removed from service, and then they kaaak with their new tank will declare themselves)))


    I think that both the T-14, and the T-15, and other vehicles based on the "Armata" will serve until the middle of the century, if not longer, so from 2035 you were "slightly" in a hurry.

    As for the Europeans, they will not only compete with the Russian Federation: it’s enough to say that the States have no plans for a new generation tank at all, so the EU will theoretically be able to take the share of the American arms market in the future. If it doesn’t break up ...
  6. Eskobar
    Eskobar 22 March 2020 14: 03 New
    -8
    Our about t14 to the whole world propiar, Europeans and others to prepare for a new threat over time, and we are on the old t-72.
    1. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 22 March 2020 14: 13 New
      +5
      The old ones? laughing
      Yes Yes)))

      And who is this "we"?
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 22 March 2020 15: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: Lord of the Sith
        And who is this "we"?

        Judging by the nickname, Colombian drug traffickers - these even have submarines. fellow wassat
  7. Cowbra
    Cowbra 22 March 2020 14: 08 New
    +4
    Y-yes ... Well, how can I say, it's time for them to update their tank fleet - this is obvious. The problem is that they still haven't even gotten close to what they want from the tank, and what from the armored personnel carrier ... You can at least remember the Puma about the armored personnel carrier - a vivid example of the fact that first you need to decide - what did you want from the box ?! And about the tank - they are dumbfounded by the demands of the "quick replacement of the tank park", for which they want to stick the Leclerc tower on the Leoperd chassis - and right up to an uninhabited tower with a mad caliber cannon. such as 140 me-me ... Well, they are developing such a way, yes. Go there, I don't know where. bring that, I don't know what. But with mother-of-pearl buttons!
    1. Mark9103
      Mark9103 22 March 2020 18: 08 New
      +1
      Isn’t it time for us to upgrade the tank fleet? In the frames of the exercises only t72b3, you can also see a lot of even the old t72b of the 80s. Sometimes even a glimpse of t62m. And the Germans have a 2a7 leopard, the French are already indulging in 140mm on leklerki. So who needs to update the park is a moot point.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 22 March 2020 18: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Mark9103
        Isn’t it time for us to upgrade the tank fleet?

        We understand what. The same "Volodya" is clearly not outdated. and then we tame the armats too ... And they have no options as long as there is nothing to change
      2. +5
        +5 23 March 2020 08: 56 New
        0
        Germans have a leopard 2a7 - it’s necessary 20 pieces are planned to be cut from 2a4 .... how much they sawed is not known :)
  8. Amateur
    Amateur 22 March 2020 14: 09 New
    +3
    Earlier information appeared in the Polish media that Warsaw was ready to join this European cooperation, but so far could not decide on the amount of funding that could be allocated to the developers.

    They will not decide to whom to say: "Guys, from the material aid you are allocating for Poland, keep 1.5-2.0 million, but we will assume that the Poles participated on equal terms in financing this project" - to the Germans or the Americans.
  9. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 22 March 2020 14: 11 New
    +1
    And in the photo there are two Leopards.
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 22 March 2020 15: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      And in the photo there are two Leopards.

      And what? Just now instead of AK-12, AEK-971 stuck to the article.
      1. cost
        cost 22 March 2020 20: 09 New
        +3
        Moreover, the photo of AEK-971 remained in the article, but the comments indicating this were deleted laughing
        1. Vasyan1971
          Vasyan1971 22 March 2020 23: 55 New
          +2
          Quote: Rich
          Moreover, the photo of AEK-971 remained in the article, but the comments indicating this were deleted laughing

          Mystic!
  10. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 22 March 2020 14: 18 New
    +1
    Earlier information appeared in the Polish media that Warsaw was ready to join this European cooperation, but so far could not decide on the amount of funding that could be allocated to the developers.
    I wouldn’t let pschekos - I don’t have much of my money, there’s no technology either, and therefore the Cossacks are unmistakable, they’ll ruin everything from the inside, don’t go to a fortuneteller ...
  11. svp67
    svp67 22 March 2020 14: 44 New
    +1
    The demonstration version of the future armored car is planned to be presented until 2027. By that time, they plan to finance the program already at the level of up to 1,5 billion euros.
    Somehow, previous experience says that with such cooperation they have a BIG problem. Well, let's wait and see
  12. Eroma
    Eroma 22 March 2020 14: 51 New
    +3
    As it is not particularly in a hurry in Europe with a new tank! By 2035, only to develop and start production, then to saturate the troops and master the machine, this is so by 2041 they will probably be prepared. Hee, the story is going on in a spiral ... in the States, like last time, there will be no tank again at the beginning of the main action, they will not itch with the new tank at all, they will play the new Sherman2000 along the way.
    The main thing is that by 2041 we would already have our own ArmataT34 and KV in production ... oh, I think instead of KV or IS there will be a name VP with an uber laser laughing
  13. Voltsky
    Voltsky 22 March 2020 15: 14 New
    -2
    And the concept of using tanks on a modern TVD is already valid ?!

    In a sense, everyone says that tanks will not become obsolete for a long time, but the modern confrontation implies lightning-fast movement of "small groups", followed by the occupation of strategic points. And it is quite possible in the future there will be unmanned tanks, accompanied by heavy BMPs of the T-15 type and BMPT of the type "Terminator 2/3"
  14. bar
    bar 22 March 2020 15: 18 New
    +2
    confirmed the beginning of research and development as part of the program for creating a new generation of European tanks.

    Let them work it out. This will take them for a while. Jobs again. It still won’t get to iron; the striped NATO chiefs will not approve of this separatism. He needs to put his abrams somewhere.
  15. HAM
    HAM 22 March 2020 15: 19 New
    +2
    The Poles can’t decide whether they are smart or beautiful!
    Holiava .......
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 22 March 2020 15: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: HAM
      Holiava .......

      Ended up.
      By the way, it is written with "a". hi
  16. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 22 March 2020 15: 36 New
    0
    and Warsaw is ready to join this European cooperation, but so far it can’t decide on the amount of funding that could be allocated to the developers.

    Well, who would have doubted! And I want and inject, and Brussels does not give money. And the striped owners will find out, in general they will do "ata ta".
  17. magadan72
    magadan72 22 March 2020 15: 47 New
    -7
    The design of the "armata", as well as the attempt to make it, is the biggest foolishness. They tried to butt with fat Europe - they pushed the arms race !!! The Europeans rode peacefully on "leclerks" and "leopards" and were satisfied ... the status quo was violated, woke up Europe .... We have a couple of "armatures" and prototypes of "boomerangs" every time a year they drive along the red square ... well, Pan Ataman does not have money for a series, although he wants to ... they HAVE ... and they will on the technology of the new generation to drive, and we on the possibly modernized T-72. You would not be frightened by the "armor" you look and parity would be preserved.
    1. Eroma
      Eroma 22 March 2020 16: 08 New
      +2
      Everything seems to be normal with money! ... and it is Europe that is trying to catch up with us as tanks, and not vice versa! Conclusion, if they gash a tank comparable to Armata, then they will RESTORE PARITY, and not break, now we are ahead! ... why panic?
    2. smile
      smile 22 March 2020 16: 20 New
      +4
      magadan72
      In 2015, a pre-production batch of 20 cars was manufactured.
      64 years have passed since the first "driving" model of the revolutionary T 14 tank appeared.
      Fourteen, Carl!
      And this is in the USSR with its resources and the ability to mobilize and concentrate them on the most important areas.
      So, while Armata is ahead of the curve, although it is no less revolutionary machine.
      Your "fat" Europe is up to us as to Shanghai on all fours.
      That's interesting. here you are arguing that Europeis will ride on something new .... yeah, tactfully not noticing that even according to their dreams cars will start to be produced ... ay-ay-ay - in only 15 years. In the meantime, even its appearance was not formed and the design did not start ...
      Wow, how did they get ahead of us, oh, how did they give us ... isn't it, right? :)))))
      Sir, tell me, are you from Ukraine? Or a local oppositionist? Just such nonsense, uttered with an envious aspiration, about "fat Europe", with saliva smeared on the table, is characteristic of precisely these categories of bipedal erectus .... You should have noticed this fact, right? :))))
  18. rocket757
    rocket757 22 March 2020 16: 56 New
    0
    They have nothing more to do .... I guess, after some time, they all will not be up to it.
  19. Ros 56
    Ros 56 22 March 2020 17: 04 New
    0
    If another gynecologist in uniform will run this business, tady oh.
  20. Gado
    Gado 22 March 2020 18: 20 New
    0
    I did not understand - what kind of unit is in the photo? Does anyone know or is this some kind of hybrid?
    1. BREAKTHROUGH READY
      BREAKTHROUGH READY 22 March 2020 19: 45 New
      +3
      Leopard 2 MBT Revolution
      An experimental machine is a technology demonstrator based on conventional leo2.
      1. Gado
        Gado 23 March 2020 14: 36 New
        0
        The camera angle is unsuccessful, which is why I asked, before there were also Leopard 2 MBT Revolution pictures, but of good quality. Thank.
  21. BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY 22 March 2020 19: 50 New
    -1
    plan to submit until 2027 .... Since 2035, project participants are ready to go into mass production
    In general, the next empty declaration of intent, and then either the donkey will die, or the padish. While modern armored vehicles can still move independently, no one will begin to change it. Like “with us” with t72, and “with them” with leo2 and abrams. Probably, at the moment, the designers just can not imagine where to move.
  22. L-39NG
    L-39NG 22 March 2020 20: 47 New
    -6
    The difference between us and you? We know how to think, work and create, you know how to believe fairy tales and drive cars of our production, even mounted in the winner's country, and with reduced quality. The main thing is to be proud, without our help you would praise Hitler or you would not exist at all. Suffice it to recall how German weapons were repaired on the territory of "partisan" Belarus, or how all were "partisans" in Narofominsk
    I’m already, like, an old man, my father was all-about gunsmith at the RAF and, thank God, I can, more or less, understand Russian. Guys, my granddaughter was born, I have 4 grandchildren and here’s a granddaughter, but I can’t see her - we have quarantine, damn it
    1. Dart
      Dart 23 March 2020 14: 24 New
      0
      who thread can interrupt this kind of delusional stream of "thoughts"?
  23. Klingon
    Klingon 23 March 2020 02: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Most likely they will leave the previous 120mm, but constructively provide for a replacement, if that ....

    130 or 140,. The French lean towards 140mm. But Rheinmetal already has groundwork for the 130th caliber. Obviously, the French will saw the automatic loader for a promising gun
  24. Shuttle
    Shuttle 23 March 2020 07: 37 New
    0
    Earlier information appeared in the Polish media that Warsaw was ready to join this European cooperation, but so far could not decide on the amount of funding that could be allocated to the developers.

    Poland is a great tank power. Yes!
    It reminded a joke about a monkey who could not decide whether she should go smart or beautiful.
    - Well, what am I to break apart? !!

    I wish Greece joined the consortium and the project could be considered mega-successful.
  25. +5
    +5 23 March 2020 08: 31 New
    0
    Until 2035, either the donkey or the padishah will die. The allocated funds are ridiculous crumbs to think "what do we want to get" ..... for a third of this price I will issue a recommendation "Schaub is like Armata, only better."
  26. Private-K
    Private-K 23 March 2020 10: 13 New
    -1
    Quote: Tank jacket
    I wonder how this tank will be completed? And How will they produce a tank after the collapse of the European Union?

    Let the story be about the same as with the joint German-French tank MBT-70: at some point, the German and French specialists disagree and each go their own way - first, the Germans will make Leo-3, and in a few years, the Franks Leclerc-2 will be rolled out.
    One thing is for sure - a German machine gun will be on a French car drinks