Ottoman pirates, admirals, travelers and cartographers


In previous articles, we talked about some of the famous corsairs and admirals of the Maghreb and the Ottoman Empire. Now we will continue this story. First, let's talk about two famous Turkish sailors who became famous not only in battles, but also left a significant mark in science, literature and culture.


Piri Reis


Ahmet ibn-i al-Hajj Mehmet el-Karamani, better known as Piri-reis, is not only a famous cartographer, but also the captain of a Turkish warship, and the admiral based in Suez fleet Indian Ocean.

Ottoman pirates, admirals, travelers and cartographers

Piri Reis. Modern turkish stylization of medieval miniature

He was born in 1470 and was the nephew of the Ottoman admiral Kemal Reis, the very one who, on the orders of Sultan Bayazid II, evacuated some of the Jews from Spain who were forced to leave the country after the publication of Catholic editions by Isabella and Ferdinand of the Granada Edict and died in a shipwreck in 1511.

On the ship of Kemal Reis, our hero, at the age of 17, took part in an attack on Malaga and before the death of this admiral (1511) he fought at sea with the Spaniards, Venetians and Genoese, and then until 1516 he was engaged in cartographic work. A fragment of his first card, published in 1513, could be seen on a banknote of 10 lira in the 8th series, which was in circulation from January 1, 2005 to January 1, 2009:


Turkish 10 lira banknote of the 8th series, which was in circulation from January 1, 2005 to January 1, 2009

His main work, Kitab-i-Bahrie (Book of the Seas), was published in 1521: it is an atlas containing 130 descriptions and navigation diagrams of the coasts and ports of the Mediterranean Sea. In 1526 an expanded version of the atlas was released, in which there were already 210 maps. The work was truly ambitious and aroused great respect, since in his work Pirireis studied a huge number of sources, including ancient ones (the earliest date from the XNUMXth century BC) and which have not survived to our time. In addition, Piríreis himself indicates that he used the cards available on captured Spanish and Portuguese ships (including those captured in the Indian Ocean), Arab cards, as well as a copy of the Columbus map, the original of which was lost.


The correct ideas of Piri-reis (or an unknown author of the maps used by him) about the shape and size of the Earth are surprising among modern geographers. And some of these maps, which depicted the coast of Brazil, the Andes, the Falkland Islands and even the outlines of Antarctica, are considered by many historians to be fake. But on these fragments of maps authentic Piri-reis autographs are preserved, which completely confuses the situation.

It was the “map of Antarctica” that made especially much noise. True, there is no Drake Strait on it, there is no ice cover, there are images of rivers, forests and animals, but the outlines of the coast of Princess Martha, Queen Maud Land and the Palmer Peninsula are quite recognizable. At the same time, modern researchers believe that the map found is a fragment of another, and Cairo or Alexandria should be the “center of the world” on the lost “large” map. Therefore, it has been suggested that the primary source was a map from the famous Alexandria Library that has not survived to our time.


Piri Reis. Map dated 1513

However, there are versions that it is not Antarctica that is depicted on this map, but the east coast of South America (somewhat distorted), the coastline of Central America (also the east coast) or southeast Asia with Japan.


One of the options for projecting a Piri-Reis map onto a modern

In 1516, Piri-reis returned to the fleet, took part in the conquest of Egypt and Rhodes, actively collaborating with Khair ad Din Barbarossa and Kurdoglu Reis. In 1524, it was his ship that the great vizier Ibrahim Pasha chose to travel to Egypt.

In 1547, having received the admiral title "Reis", he was sent to Suez, where he became commander of the Indian Ocean fleet.


Piri Reis, bust, Maritime Museum, Istanbul

He inflicted several serious defeats on the Portuguese, took Aden, Muscat, the Qatar Peninsula and the islands of Kish, Hormuz and Bahrain, forcing the Portuguese to leave the Arabian Peninsula.


Portuguese galliot with slaves. Illustration from the Travel Diary of Jan Huygen van Linschoten (1596)

For disobeying the order of the Sultan, Piri-reis was executed at the age of 84, but modern Turkey is proud of him, his name is given to the first Turkish-made submarine launched in December 2019.


Submarine "Piri-reis", length 68 meters, crew of 40 people

Sadie Ali Reis


In the famous battle of Preveza, which was described in the article Islamic Pirates of the Mediterranean, the right flank of the victorious fleet of Khair ad Din Barbarossa was led by Salah Reis (described in the article "The Great Islamic Admirals of the Mediterranean Sea") And the left was commanded by Seydi Ali-Reis.


Seydi Ali Reis on a coin of 50 lira, 2013

He was born in Galat in 1498, his grandfather served as chief of the naval arsenal, his father was in charge of Bahriye Dârü's-Sınaası (literally - something like "the center of the naval industry). It is not surprising that the boy went on this part - he began his service in the naval arsenal. In 1522, he took part in the siege of Rhodes, which ended with the expulsion of hospitaliers from this island. Then he served under the command of Sinan Pasha and Turgut Reis (they were described in the article The Disciples of Khair ad Din Barbarossa).

Sadi Ali received an admiral post at the end of 1552 when he was appointed commander of the Indian Ocean fleet.

Arriving in Basra (a port in the Persian Gulf), he arranged for repairs and arming with new guns of the 15 galleys located there, which then should have been transferred to Suez. Putting the ships of this squadron in order, he went to sea with them, and 10 days later he collided with the Portuguese fleet, which consisted of 25 ships, among which were 4 large sailing ships, 3 galleons, 6 patrol ships and 12 galleys. The fierce battle ended in a “draw”, many ships were seriously damaged, one of the Portuguese galleons was sunk. With the onset of darkness, the squadrons dispersed, and they did not dare to enter a new battle.

A new clash with the Portuguese occurred 18 days later: the son of the Portuguese governor, Muscat (Oman), at the head of 34 ships, attacked an already battered Ottoman squadron. In this battle, each side lost 5 ships. A few days later, Sadi Ali Reis brought the remaining ships to the port of Gwadar (currently located in the modern Pakistani province of Balochistan), where he was friendly received by local residents and, finally, was able to replenish supplies of food and fresh water. On the way to Yemen, the squadron fell into a storm that lasted 10 days and carried them to the coast of India. They were able to land about two miles from the city of Daman. During this storm, the ships received such damage that it was almost impossible to repair them: according to Sadie-Ali, it was simply a miracle that they could get to the shore on them. By agreement with the ruler of Gujarat (now state in western India), ships with all weapons were transferred to the local authorities in exchange for the right to move freely and the promise to pay for them, not to Admiral Sadi Ali, but to the Port authorities. Many of the Ottoman sailors went to the service of the local sultan, at the head of the remaining Sadi Ali Reis moved to Surat. From there, he began his overland trip (lasting two years and three months) to Constantinople: through Delhi, Kabul, Samarkand, Bukhara, Iraq, Anatolia.

Suleiman the Magnificent Seydi Ali Reis brought letters from the rulers of 18 states that he visited during his journey.

The Sultan accepted his apology for the loss of ships, ordered to pay a salary for 4 years and appointed a muteferric to the court position, which provided for a daily salary of 80 AHCH.

But this admiral became famous not by the naval service, but by the book “Mirror of the Countries”, translated into many languages: this is a description of his great journey, which has not lost its historical and literary significance in our time.

Sadie Ali is also known as the author of many poems written under the pseudonym Katib-i Rumi (Scribe of the West).

“First” (Senior) Murat-reis


Another great pirate admiral Maghreb was born into an Albanian family in 1534 - either on the island of Rhodes, or in Albania. When the boy was 12 years old, he, like Giovanni Galeni, was captured by one of the captains of the Barbarian pirates - a certain Kara Ali, and, having also accepted Islam, joined the corsairs. However, there is another version according to which Murat joined the pirates voluntarily, and not to anyone, but immediately to Turgut-reis. It is also known that for some time Murat served on the ship of Piri Reis.

The first of Murat’s independent raids was unsuccessful - his ship crashed on rocks in 1565. But already during the second raid, he captured three Spanish ships.


Spanish shebek

Further, he was subordinate to the ruler of Algeria, Uluj-Ali. In 1570, at the head of 25 galleys, he participated in the capture of the last Venetian fortress in Cyprus - Famagusta.

In 1578, Murat Reis, commanding a squadron of 8 galliotes, off the coast of Calabria attacked two large Sicilian ships, capturing one of them and forcing the flagship (on board of which was the Duke of Terra Nova), jump onto the rocks. In 1585, he, the first of the Algerian pirates, went to the Atlantic, visited the Moroccan Sale and attacked Lanzarote - the northernmost of the Canary Islands: captured three hundred prisoners, including the governor.

In 1589, he won the battle with the La Serena Gallery of Hospitallers, who led a captured Turkish ship to Malta.

After that, Murat Reis was appointed commander of the galley fleet of Algeria.


Galleria of the Barbary Pirates

In 1594, Murat, commanding four small galliots, captured two Tuscan galeas.


Galleass

This pirate admiral was killed in 1609, when his ships came together in battle with a squadron of 10 French and Maltese ships, among which was the famous Galeono Rossa — a 90-gun combat galleon known as the Rosso Inferno (Red Hell or "Hellish Red"). Then 6 out of 10 enemy ships were captured, including the Red Galleon, 160 guns and 2000 muskets, as well as 500 sailors and soldiers, but Murat-reis was mortally wounded. The admiral died on the way to Cyprus, and, according to his will, was buried on the island of Rhodes.


Mosque and grave of Murat-Reis the Elder on the island of Rhodes

In Turkey, one of the submarines was named after him.


Submarine Murat Reis

Piyale Pasha



Bust of Piyale Pasha, Istanbul, Naval Museum

Another great admiral of the Ottoman Empire, Piyale Mehmed Paşa, was either a Hungarian or a Croat born in Hungary in 1515. He came to Turkey as a child (probably after the battle of Mohach on August 29, 1526), ​​was converted to Islam and made a dizzying career, becoming the third person in the empire.

The boy, apparently, turned out to be extremely smart and talented, because he was sent to Enderun, located in the third courtyard of the Topkapi palace complex, where the most talented “foreign boys” were trained, taken in the conquered Christian countries using the devshire system (this was described in article "Janissaries and Bektashi").


Enderun, library of Ahmet III

Education at this school was very serious and included seven levels: the Small Chamber, the Grand Chamber, the Sokolnichy Chamber, the Military Chamber, the House of Economy, the Treasury Chamber and the highest level - Personal Chambers . The further the student progressed along these steps, the more prestigious the position he later occupied.

Graduates of the “Military Chamber” were usually sent to serve in the part of the Sipahs. Those who graduated from the House of Economy were engaged in the economic support of the palace and mosques, or were sent to serve in the guards cavalry formations (kapi kullari - personal slaves of the Sultan). Graduates of the Treasury Chamber became palace servants, or were also sent to the Sultan's Guard. Pupils who were trained in the chamber "Personal chambers" became senior pages, valets, squires of the Sultan, or horsemen. Our hero, went through all the steps of Enderun, and in 1547 we see him in the position of Kapijibashi - head of the internal security of the Sultan's palace. At this time he was 32 years old. Agree that in Hungary this boy, the son of a poor shoemaker, would not even have dreamed of such a career.

Suleiman I (Magnificent) generally appreciated this admiral and in 1566 even married his granddaughter - the daughter of shekhzade (the title of son or grandson of the Sultan), the future Sultan Selim II (her name was Gevheri Muluk-Sultan), which was an incredible honor.


Such were seen by Suleiman the Magnificent and his sons by the audience of the series “The Magnificent Century”

Selim was the son of the "fatal woman of the Ottoman Empire" - Roksolany (Alexandra Anastasia Lisowska Haseki Sultan), and in Turkey he was called "Blonde." But in history he entered under the nickname "The Drunkard."

Titian, who had never seen Roxolana, decided that it should look like this:


But such Suleiman and Roksolana appear before us in engraving by an unknown artist (circa 1550):


The caption on this paired portrait reads:

“La piu bella e la piu favorita donna del gran Turcho dita la Rossa” (The most beautiful and beloved woman of the Great Turk, Russian).

And this is a shot from the series "The Magnificent Century":


But back to the brave admiral and son-in-law of the Ottoman sultans Piyale Pasha.

In 1554, Piyale was appointed Pasha of Galipoli, together with Turgut-Reis attacked the islands of Elba and Corsica, and in 1555 commanded the Turkish squadron, operating in alliance with the French fleet.

In 1556, his squadron captured Oran and Tlemcen, in 1557 - Bizerte, in 1558 - the island of Mallorca, where many Christians were captured. In the same year, acting together with Turgut-Reis, captured the city of Reggio Calabria.

The threat to the Mediterranean coasts of Christian countries was so great that at the initiative of the Spanish King Philip II, an alliance was created, which was joined by the Genoese Republic, the Grand Duchy of Tuscany, the papal region and the Order of Hospitallers. The Duke of Medinaceli, Viceroy of Sicily, was appointed command of the Spanish ships. The allies of the Spaniards were led by Giovanni Andrea Doria - the son of the nephew of the famous Genoese admiral (Andrea Doria, which was described in previous articles). Giovanni will later take part in the battle of Lepanto.


Giovanni Andrea Doria

A landing party (about 14 thousand people) was landed on the island of Djerba, the Turkish fort Bordj el-Kebir fell, the sheikhs of Djerba recognized the power of Philip II and agreed to a tribute of 6 thousand ecu. However, the Allies did not have time to enjoy their victory properly: on May 11 the fleet of Piyale Pasha, which included the ships of Turgut Reis, approached Djerba.

The naval battle took place on May 14 in a strait off the Kerkenna Islands: the allied fleet of Christians was almost destroyed. Two months later, European troops surrendered on Djerba. About 5000 soldiers and officers were taken prisoner, including Don Sancho de Levia (Sicily squadron commander), Naples squadron general Don Berenger Kekennes and the Spanish garrison commander Djerba don Alvare de Sande, who later rejected the offer, having accepted Islam, to head the Turkish army in the war with Persia. This triumph of Piyale Pasha was overshadowed by the accusations of the great vizier Rustem Pasha that the admiral did not give the Ottoman authorities the son of the Duke of Medinaceli Gaston in order to get a ransom for him himself. But the vizier died, and the investigation was not completed. Moreover, in 1565, the lucky admiral was appointed Kapudan Pasha. They say that then he found his mother and brought her to Constantinople, where she lived, remaining a Christian.

In the position of Kapudan Pasha, he led an expedition against Malta (Great Siege of Malta). He was Kizilahmetli Mustafa Pasha, Seraksir (Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces), and later Turgut-Reis arrived, who would die during the siege of Fort St. Elm.


Matteo Peresa d`Aleccio. Turgut Reis, Mustafa Pasha and Piyale Pasha in Malta, XNUMXth century fresco

It was not possible to capture Malta then.

“Only with me my armies achieve triumph!”
,
- Sultan Suleiman said about this.

Seraskir of this expedition was demoted, but Piyale Pasha did not lose the location of the Sultan. In April of the following year, he captured the islands of Chios and Naxos without a fight, and then plundered the coast of Puglia.

In September 1566, the Sultan Suleiman died, his son Selim ascended the throne of the Ottoman Empire (recall that Piyale Pasha was married to his daughter).


Selim II, portrait, Austrian National Library

During his coronation in Constantinople another rebellion broke out of the Janissaries, who threw Piyale Pasha, who had come to them for negotiations, from his horse. They calmed down only after receiving significant amounts of money as “gifts” and achieving an increase in salaries. In addition, Piyale Pasha was forced to relinquish the post of Fleet Commander-in-Chief age Janissaries Muezinzade Ali Pasha. It was he who commanded the Ottoman fleet at the battle of Lepanto (1571), and, according to many, his incompetence became one of the main reasons for the defeat:

“The great admiral of the Ottoman fleet in his life did not even command a rowing boat”
,
- wrote about this occasion the Turkish historian of the XVII century Kyatib Celebi.

(The battle of Lepanto was described in an article "The Great Islamic Admirals of the Mediterranean Sea".)

But back to Piyale Pasha. After receiving the post of second vizier, after the defeat at Lepanto, he, together with Uludj-reis, worked on the restoration and reform of the Ottoman fleet. This admiral went to sea for the last time in 1573, when the Ottomans again robbed the coast of Puglia. He died in Constantinople - January 21, 1578.


The big mosque of Piyale Mehmed Pasha (mosque of the shipyard), this admiral is buried next to her in a turba (mausoleum). Istanbul

The death of the most famous and terrible pirates of the Maghreb and the great admirals of the Ottoman Empire did not improve the situation of their opponents - Christians. So, if in 1581 the Algerian fleet consisted of 26 warships, in 1616 there were 40 ships in the military fleet of Algeria. It was divided into 2 squadrons: the first, of 18 ships, cruised at Malaga, the second (22 ships) controlled the sea between Lisbon and Seville.

According to the calculations of modern researchers, only English and Scottish merchant ships from 1606 to 1609. no less than 466 were captured by the Barbarian pirates. From 1613 and 1622 Algerian corsairs alone captured 963 ships (including 447 Dutch and 253 French). And in the period from 1625 to 1630 they seized another 600 ships. The Catholic priest Pierre Dan reports that in 1634 there were 25 thousand Christians in the position of slaves in Algeria, there were 7 thousand of them in Tunisia, from 4 to 5 thousand in Tripoli, and about 1,5 thousand in Sala.

As a result, at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the coasts of Puglia and Calabria were almost empty, living here at that time from the locals were mostly at risk from pirates 'trading affairs', robbers and smugglers, or completely impoverished people who fled debt or were persecuted by authorities of other Italian lands for committing there crime.

In the next article we will talk about famous renegades: Suleiman-Reis, Jack Ptashka (Sparrow) and some other Europeans, who became famous as corsairs of the Islamic Maghreb, about the "captain-devil" Simon Dancer, who remained a zealous Protestant even in the Maghreb, as well as The pirate republic of Sale, its first admiral and "president" Jan Yanson, better known as Murat-reis the Younger.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Aleksandr72 23 March 2020 08: 38 New
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      And what does this comment have to do with the article (by the way, in my opinion, it’s very interesting)? Or did the commentator have a desire to spew out the brain ... of the brain at any price? Well, it’s just itchy hands!
      Social lifts in the Ottoman Empire were always surprising - being born essentially a slave, you could reach the very heights in the system of government.
      And the path to the heights of Islamic Islamic corsairs in the service of the Ottoman Sultan is quite correlated with the pirates of Queen Elizabeth and other rulers of England, such as Drake, Morgan, Raleigh and many others.
      1. Bar1 23 March 2020 09: 54 New
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        Well, what ships are depicted on the maps of Piri Reis, as well as modern editions, aren't there galleons? And Ryzhov?
  2. Olgovich 23 March 2020 09: 12 New
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    Agree that in Hungary this boy, the son of a poor shoemaker, would not even have dreamed of such a career.

    I do not agree: this is the greatest tragedy when a capable boy was forcefully removed from the midst of his people and his talent served the enemies of his fellow tribesmen .....

    Pirates, though talented, but, in fact, bandits, are today's heroes of Turkey request recourse
    1. svp67 23 March 2020 09: 42 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      Pirates, though talented, but, in fact, bandits, are today's heroes of Turkey

      Pirates, not pirates, name at least one naval power whose fleet behaved differently, but that's what always surprised me. The presence of a huge source of knowledge, high education and gradual obvious degradation of the whole society. It turns out that one - the other is not an assistant.
      1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 10: 53 New
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        Quote: svp67
        Pirates, not pirates, name at least one naval power whose fleet behaved differently,

        Russia, it had nothing like the described Turkish admirals, pirates (we will not compare them with the “privateers” of Ivan the Terrible and the Greeks in the service of Russia, it’s not that absolutely scale)
        1. svp67 23 March 2020 11: 21 New
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          Quote: Olgovich
          Russia, she had nothing like the described Turkish admiral pirates

          But did Russia have a fleet then?
          Quote: Olgovich
          (let’s not compare them with the “privateers” of Ivan the Terrible and the Greeks in the service of Russia, it’s not that absolutely scale)

          Well, if you recall Stepan Razin and his Volga and Caspian campaigns?
          1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 12: 34 New
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            Quote: svp67
            But did Russia have a fleet then?

            Piracy was in the 18-19 century
            Quote: svp67

            Well, if you recall Stepan Razin and his Volga and Caspian campaigns?

            He was not in the public service, but very much the other way around.
            1. svp67 23 March 2020 12: 38 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              He was not in the public service, but very much the other way around.

              From some point.
              1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 13: 36 New
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                Quote: svp67
                Quote: Olgovich
                He was not in the public service, but very much the other way around.

                From some point.

                during his Persian campaigns, was not.
            2. vladcub 23 March 2020 20: 40 New
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              In fact, pirates could use sailing boats
          2. vladcub 23 March 2020 20: 46 New
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            “But if there was a fleet at Russia then,” let Fomenko, Zadornov, and some other authors have a different opinion on this.
            Samsonov, for example, may suggest that: Piale is a distorted Paul
        2. Senior seaman 23 March 2020 11: 49 New
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          Well, our Cossacks, both Zaporizhzhya and Don, did about the same in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.
          1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 12: 34 New
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            Quote: Senior Sailor
            Well, our Cossacks, both Zaporizhzhya and Don, did about the same in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.

            Did they have the state ranks of admirals?
            1. svp67 23 March 2020 12: 39 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              Did they have the state ranks of admirals?

              They were in the sovereign service
            2. Senior seaman 23 March 2020 12: 52 New
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              In the 16-17th century, we did not have state titles, as well as admirals. But the donors were paid a salary, including gunpowder, lead, food and money.
              But under Peter and after the Cossacks, they were respected by both colonels and generals, so everything is fine.
              1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 13: 44 New
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                Quote: Senior Sailor
                В 16-17 century with us government titles was not, as well as admirals.

                1. State ranks were: Military ranks - posts (rank) in of Russia appear for the first time in the period XVI — XVII centuries. In the middle of the XNUMXth century, the following military ranks were in the Streltsy army - positions:

                Sagittarius;
                ten's manager
                Pentecostal
                centurion; etc.

                2. I mean, of course, their official relationship with the Russian the state, not real "admiral" titles
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                But the donors were paid a salary, including gunpowder, lead, food and money.

                Tell us about the payment by the state of S. Razin "powder, lead, food and money" during his piracy in the Caspian.
                1. Senior seaman 23 March 2020 14: 50 New
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                  Quote: Olgovich
                  State calls were

                  In the current sense it was not. There were four Duma ranks, four Moscow and two city. Service and rankings depended on origin. Someone started with the Moscow Nobleman, and for others, this rank remained an unattainable dream.
                  Sagittarius generally from another opera.
                  The title of admiral with a certain stretch can be compared with the rank of boyar. Ordinary man or middle-aged nobleman could not achieve this rank in principle.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Tell us about the state payment S. Razin

                  A good example :))) While he served the state, all of the above went in full. Rebel - executed. By the way, in the Ottoman state, rebellious beys, rees and pasha were also allowed to expend. Take at least the mentioned Piri-Reis.
                  1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 15: 32 New
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                    Quote: Senior Sailor
                    In the current sense it was not.

                    It was :: and then and now there were and are state military titles - positions in the army state, then, for example:

                    Sagittarius;
                    ten's manager
                    Pentecostal
                    centurion

                    now-ordinary, sergeant, etc.
                    Quote: Senior Sailor
                    Good example :))) While he served the state, all of the above went in full.

                    Definitely good: Razin, during piracy-did not serve state (Russia), in contrast to the pirates listed in the article who served their state.

                    Therefore it is:
                    Quote: Senior Sailor
                    Well, our Cossacks, both Zaporozhye and Don the same engaged in the XVI - XVII century.
                    does not correspond, in my opinion, to reality.
                    1. Senior seaman 23 March 2020 15: 59 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      in my opinion

                      Dear colleague, hi You certainly have the right to your own opinion. But ... first, study what is the rank in the Moscow state, and who could achieve it. And then compare.
                      Now for the Cossacks. In 1657, ataman Kornilii Yakovlev (a good friend of Razin :))) headed 2 Cossacks in 33 plows and went to the Crimea and ravaged ten Tatar villages near present Yevpatoriya.
                      In the next 1658, he led Moscow to the Winter Village. I went just for a salary, I received something safely.
                      In 1659, he again ravaged the Azov coast between Temryuk and Tamanyu and visited under Kafu.
                      1661 again in Moscow, reports on the work done.
                      1662 Captures two Turkish ships at Kafa.
                      1664 Goes to Moscow.
                      The difference with his godson Razin, only that he knew how to stop in time. request
                      1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 16: 22 New
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                        Dear colleague, hi You certainly have the right to your own opinion. But ... first, study what is the rank in the Moscow state, and who could achieve it

                        Apparently, we speak different Russian languages: we were talking about the availability of TITLES and the state structure of Russia, which, for example, was a streltsy army.

                        And such titles in it were.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Now for the Cossacks. In 1657, ataman Kornilii Yakovlev (a good friend of Razin :))) headed 2 Cossacks in 33 plows and went to the Crimea and ravaged ten Tatar villages near present Yevpatoriya.
                        In the next 1658, he led Moscow to the Winter Village. I went just for a salary, I received something safely.
                        In 1659, he again ravaged the Azov coast between Temryuk and Tamanyu and visited under Kafu.
                        1661 again in Moscow, reports on the work done.
                        1662 Captures two Turkish ships at Kafa.
                        1664 Goes to Moscow.
                        The difference with his godson Razin, only that he knew how to stop in time

                        Razin pirated-NOT BEING a sovereign person and without the knowledge of the state ..
                      2. Senior seaman 23 March 2020 16: 37 New
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                        Quote: Olgovich
                        we talked about the availability of RANKS

                        A bit wrong. You asked:
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Did they have the state ranks of admirals?

                        And for an example, we moved for some reason to archers. Sorry, but what about a Sagittarius, that a Cossack before the "state rank of admiral" will not be reached in principle! (in the absence of such) Their heads (or, in other words, colonels) were metropolitan or Moscow noblemen, no less.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Razin pirated-NOT BEING a sovereign person and without the knowledge of the state ..

                        What about his godfather? And it is
                      3. Olgovich 24 March 2020 07: 48 New
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                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Немного not this way.You asked:
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Did they have the state ranks of admirals?

                        And for an example, we moved for some reason to archers. Sorry, but what about a Sagittarius, that a Cossack before the "state rank of admiral" will not reach the level!

                        1. Namely so: state ranks were (which you denied) and archers are an example of this.

                        2. The word "Admirals" can be thrown out or supplemented with the "foreman, centurion", etc.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        What about his godfather?

                        was not a pirate
                      4. Senior seaman 24 March 2020 08: 19 New
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                        Quote: Olgovich
                        archers are an example of this.

                        An example of what? Sagittarius could rise to the boyar? no
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        was not a pirate

                        Sorry, but what are people called, exciting the ships of a foreign state in time of peace?
                      5. Olgovich 24 March 2020 09: 36 New
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                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        An example of what? Sagittarius could rise to the boyar?

                        HAD A TITLE
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Sorry, but what are people called, exciting the ships of a foreign state in time of peace?

                        CCH And it is
                      6. Senior seaman 24 March 2020 22: 45 New
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                        Quote: Olgovich
                        HAD A TITLE

                        No. The tenmaster, centurion, and so on are positions, not ranks (and not ranks). What were the ranks in Russia of the 16-17th centuries, I wrote above.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        CCH

                        I do not know what this abbreviation means. I venture to suggest that the lack of arguments.
                      7. Olgovich 25 March 2020 10: 30 New
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                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        No. The tenmaster, centurion, and so on are positions, not ranks (and not ranks)

                        these are military ranks:
                        Russian kingdom
                        Military ranks positions (rank) appear in Russia for the first time in the period of the XVI-XVII centuries. In the middle of the XNUMXth century, the following military ranks were in the Streltsy army - positions:

                        Sagittarius;
                        ten's manager
                        Pentecostal
                        centurion;
                        half-head (five hundred head, later a colonel and lieutenant colonel);
                        order head (later regiment commander, colonel);
                        Lied (head of the streltsy squad);
                        Senior Lied (the head of all the streltsy parts (regiments) of the city or county).
                        Military ranks were preserved only during service in the Streltsy army. In other troops, before the formation of the regiments of the new system, military ranks coincided with the ranks of the sovereign (civilian) service (duma clerk, clerk, steward, and so on).
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        I do not know what this abbreviation means. I venture to suggest that the lack of arguments.

                        Alas, I do not see the arguments for you:
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Well, our Cossacks, like Zaporizhzhya About the same thing was done in the XVI - XVII century.
                        , Neither Razin nor Zaporizhzhya during the piracy failed in the civil service.
                        2. When the Don people were in the service, they carried out orders, and this is not piracy
                      8. Senior seaman 25 March 2020 11: 39 New
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                        lied

                        I see.
                        Again. I did not write that there were no titles at all, I wrote that they were not in, quote, contemporary understanding. But in order to realize this, one must not quote the wiki, but at least defeat Kotoshikhin.
                        If it’s quite simple, then from the time of Peter there is a ladder of posts that must be passed in order to move through the service. Of course, not all lieutenants will become generals, but all generals were lieutenants (this is not about the Russian Guard, etc. :)) In the Moscow state, this is not so. If papa is a boyar, then his offspring will not start serving as a “boyar’s son”, but will immediately turn into a “Moscow nobleman”, or even joiners, and some Anennkov will have to serve in boyar’s children all his life, so that he will end up with his services to the end of his life get on the Moscow list. Again, let’s say, Golitsin from the stolniks will be immediately granted in the boyar, but Dolgoruky will have to serve as a roundabout first. But the steps of the Duma nobleman and clerk pass both.
                        When the Don people were in the service, they carried out orders, and this is not piracy

                        Do you ever think before writing? When Kornila Yakovlev ravaged the Ottoman lands and captured Turkish ships, there was no war between Russia and Turkey. What is privateering in peacetime called?
                        And yet, I fully support the division into:
                        Ours are scouts, Theirs are spies
                        We are liberating, They are seizing.
                        We - return ours, They - rob ... accordingly, they - piracy, and ours ... too, because there is no other word.
    2. vladcub 23 March 2020 20: 54 New
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      True noted: the Turks also did not favor the rebels!
      However, no one will favor the rebels. Do you know the risk of favoring the rebels. However, if he "repents" or for political and economic reasons could
  • Catfish 23 March 2020 12: 07 New
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    But in Russia there were Ermaki Timofeevichs and other "explorers" who, with enviable persistence and quite successfully, joined the new land to their state, and they always found someone to rob. Everything dictates the geographical location and ... in short, Russia had "its own way." As always...)))
    1. vladcub 23 March 2020 20: 58 New
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      Konstantin, good evening. From harmfulness: Ermak or the same Atlases more land were
      1. Catfish 23 March 2020 21: 46 New
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        Hi Svyatoslav. Did I really call them sailors? An explorer can never be a navigator. request
  • Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 14: 34 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia, she had nothing like the described Turkish admiral pirates

    Russia, simply by virtue of its geographical position, could have nothing of the kind - just look at the seas to which it had exits throughout its history. And if there were conditions for the development of such a profitable business - if there were "businessmen" themselves do not hesitate. smile
  • Fat
    Fat 23 March 2020 15: 54 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: svp67
    Pirates, not pirates, name at least one naval power whose fleet behaved differently,

    Russia, it had nothing like the described Turkish admirals, pirates (we will not compare them with the “privateers” of Ivan the Terrible and the Greeks in the service of Russia, it’s not that absolutely scale)

    Well ... In Russia, privateers, that is, civilians, became privateers. With the exception of the Petrovsky lieutenant Ladyzhensky and the second lieutenant Laurens Berlogen ...
    The rules of privateering were strictly regulated.
    With the outbreak of the Russo-Turkish War of 1787, the Rules for Particular Corsers were published, for the Greeks who were privateers in the Mediterranean Sea under the Russian flag ...
    With the outbreak of the Russo-French War of 1805, Admiral Senyavin, with the permission of the government, issued letters of marque to the inhabitants of the Ionian Islands ...
  • Bar1 23 March 2020 16: 13 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia, she had nothing like the described Turkish admiral pirates

    you don’t know the story and don’t want to know, but the story is different.

    This banner of the troops of Her Imperial Majesty the Zaporizhzhya grassroots was created by the infantry kosh of the warring Togo troops along the Black Sea along the rivers Dnieper and Danube.


    Well, when did this Zaporizhzhya army fight on such multi-deck and multi-mast ships along the Dnieper and especially the Danube. They will never tell you the truth, because it is false from beginning to end.

    1. Phil77 24 March 2020 09: 39 New
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      Yes, this * image * is completely stylized! Such a * vessel * would not be able to swim-walk. Absolutely! Sorry, but not an argument!
      1. Phil77 24 March 2020 09: 54 New
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        I apologize for the grammar, the error came out! Well, who doesn’t happen?
  • Sergey S. 24 March 2020 15: 46 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia, it had nothing like the described Turkish admirals, pirates (we will not compare them with the “privateers” of Ivan the Terrible and the Greeks in the service of Russia, it’s not that absolutely scale)

    In the Russo-Japanese War, Russia attempted to organize privateering in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans.
    For this, high-speed steamships were purchased and armed. who were retrained as auxiliary cruisers.

    These cruisers began to operate in the Red Sea (as far as I remember).
    England, as a powerful sea power, protested, demanding the termination of the activities of auxiliary cruisers.
    Otherwise, she promised to treat them like pirates and sink them.

    Nikolai crawled his tail and obeyed ...
  • VLR
    VLR 23 March 2020 10: 00 New
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    Americans do the same: they literally hunt for the most talented young scientists and the best graduates of prestigious universities around the world.
    1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 10: 46 New
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      Quote: VlR
      Americans do the same: they literally hunt for the most talented young scientists and the best graduates of prestigious universities around the world.

      Aha-i "STRONG" drag, against their will and the will of relatives, in the USA And it is
      1. VLR
        VLR 23 March 2020 11: 10 New
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        Are you sure that the boy who became Piyale Pasha was dragged into the Topkapi Palace by force?
        In 1573, the Venetian ambassadors Andrea Badoaro and Konstantino Gardzoni reported to the Senate that “Piali was discovered by the dogs of Sultan Suleiman in the ditch when he was walking for the first time in Hungary, and he was naked and weak.”
        And he was taken out of this ditch - and into the Sultan's grub with the prospect of making a fantastic career, and he - "go away, Ottoman dogs, I’d better die, but I won’t serve you!"
        So what?
        Anyway, the civilized Europeans demonized the devshire system. There were excesses, but many parents willingly gave their boys to the Sultan: this was the only chance to escape from the vicious circle of centuries-old poverty, since social elevators did not work in medieval Europe. Born in a family of farm laborers - you yourself will be a farm laborer, and your children and grandchildren will be farm laborers.
        In medieval Europe, the poor in the hungry years of the children willingly sold or took them to the forest without return: where do you think all these tales about Hansel and Gretel, and others, come from?
        Moreover, as a rule, “foreign boys”, taken according to the devshire system, still treated Christians better at command posts than their Ottomans or Arabs.
        So, "not everything is so simple."
        1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 11: 27 New
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          Quote: VlR
          Are you sure that the boy who became Piyale Pasha was dragged into the Topkapi Palace by force?

          yes - and History proves it - with hundreds of thousands of facts of forcibly taking away the children of the Slavs by the Turks.

          Quote: VlR
          And he was taken out of this ditch - and into the Sultan's grub with the prospect of making a fantastic career, and he - "go away, Ottoman dogs, I’d better die, but I won’t serve you!"
          So what?

          So.

          otherwise, you agree with the program Lebensborn:
          since 1941, the Lebensborn program moved to a new stage, the purpose of which was "Germanization of the Slavic peoples." For this, in Yugoslavia, the Czech Republic, Poland, and from mid-1943 and in the USSR, SS officers were ordered to remove childrenwho had blond hair and blue eyes. The terrible facts of the abduction of babies right on the street are confirmed by numerous eyewitnesses of the events. There are known cases when dety at the age of only a few days from birth. Thus, growing up, the kids not only did not know anything about their real parents, but also to which nation they actually belong to (VO).
          request
          1. VLR
            VLR 23 March 2020 11: 49 New
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            I wrote about this system myself in the article “Weatherbub vs. Wilfred”, but the analogy is nevertheless incomplete. And the time was different, and the children were treated differently (the custom of leaving children in the woods during the hungry years in the Middle Ages existed in Scandinavia, Germany, France, and Russia too - remember the fairy tale "Morozko"), and , again, the main issue is volunteerism. Nowhere is it said that parents hid the children from the Turkish "commissars": the parents themselves at special points and brought them (at a conscious age) for selection - and they did not take everyone in a row, but only the best ones meeting certain criteria.
            In Western Europe and Scandinavia, by the way, Germans did not deprive children of their parents according to the "Source of Life" system - the ties of local unmarried women with German soldiers (not rape) were encouraged, then these women themselves came to give birth to special Lebensburn points - and left there children. In Norway there were 10 such points.
            But in Eastern Europe - yes, they took very young children (who should not have remembered their origin) from their parents. Because the Norwegians, Danes, the Dutch, the French for the Germans were “their own” (and the Germans for them too) - “darlings fight - only amuse themselves,” and the Slavs do not.
            1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 12: 47 New
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              Quote: VlR
              and, again, the main issue is volunteerism

              set of children in the Janissaries (devshire - blood tax) was one of duties Christian population of the empire.

              Conscription is involuntary.

              The fact that Bosniaks and Albanians who converted to Islam brought children themselves is from another opera.
              Quote: VlR
              But in Eastern Europe - yes, they took very young children (who should not have remembered their origin) from their parents. .

              How is this different from picking a Hungarian boy?
        2. Pane Kohanku 23 March 2020 12: 15 New
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          There were excesses, but many parents willingly gave their boys to the Sultan: this was the only chance to escape from the vicious circle of centuries-old poverty, since social elevators did not work in medieval Europe. Born in a family of farm laborers - you yourself will be a farm laborer, and your children and grandchildren will be farm laborers.

          as I understand it, in China, in order to break out of poverty and pursue a career, some became eunuchs. The great sailor Zheng He, for example, was one! hi
          1. VLR
            VLR 23 March 2020 12: 51 New
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            In Italy, too: singing boys, so that their voice would not break, they voluntarily went to castration. And the parents did not mind, but, on the contrary, “fully approved”.
            1. Pane Kohanku 23 March 2020 13: 34 New
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              And the parents did not mind, but, on the contrary, "fully approved."

              yes, I remember, in the 90s the film Farinelli Castrati was repeatedly shown. And it is
              Valery, regarding the removal of boys - we still had such a thing as “cantonists” back in the 19th century. It seems that Jewish boys were also raked there. Only a few of them even later, without changing their faith (!) Became officers. hi
              Colleagues, regarding my exclamation - you understand, if a Jew was then baptized, he automatically became Russian. request And for the Jews in Russia, the adoption of Orthodoxy, again, was one of the ways, as they say, to get some opportunities. soldier The well-known Russian collector of fairy tales Pisakhov (remember the cartoon with Leonov and the sailor Medvedyom), exactly what came from the family of "crossfire". drinks well, Academician Tarle is also a "cross." Yes, there were a lot of them! hi
    2. Phil77 23 March 2020 11: 57 New
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      Hello to the venerable meeting! Hello Valery! Question: do you have any plans for an article about Saeed al-Hurra? She also acted very well on the nerves of the Portuguese in the Mediterranean. Yes, and perhaps the only female pirate in the Muslim world.
      1. VLR
        VLR 23 March 2020 11: 59 New
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        It’s hard to say, because the creative process is unpredictable. I was not going to write this cycle - but I wrote it, although the plans were different. So I’m probably going to finish it (it’s already completely formed and there is no way to go aside), then what I put aside for a while, and then how it goes.
        1. Phil77 23 March 2020 12: 01 New
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          This is understandable. But the figure is what! The Queen of the Pirates of the Muslim world! Madame Wong of the 16th century! good
  • Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 15: 04 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    this is the greatest tragedy when a capable boy was forcefully removed from the midst of his people

    So-so tragedy, local scale, purely personal, and even then, conditionally. The boy will cry, mom will cry, dad will grit his teeth and that’s all. And if a boy in a new place also achieves success, then in general, consider it lucky. smile
    At that time, tragedies were abrupt. The same Turks who captured the boy, before this, could have heaped up such that the capture of the boy itself would seem like a happy event, and not a tragedy, both for him and for his parents ...
    But the greatest tragedies for mankind happen when capable boys are born in a society in which their abilities will never be in demand. How many great poets, musicians, scientists, generals, politicians have walked their whole life behind a plow or plow, simply because they were born in a peasant family and were not lucky to be captured or otherwise change the situation ...
    By and large, Hungary in the case of Piyale Mehmed Pasha did not lose anything, but world history has acquired a bright and extraordinary character.
    Maybe this is not a tragedy at all, that a person managed to break out of the circle of doom and realize his abilities, albeit in another state? Honestly, I myself do not know how to answer this question.
    1. Olgovich 23 March 2020 15: 37 New
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      Quote: Trilobite Master
      So-so tragedy local scale, purely personal

      every person is universe.
  • Cartalon 23 March 2020 09: 18 New
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    By the way, it would be even more interesting to read about the Seventeenth Century, usually they write casually about the events after Lepanto
    1. VLR
      VLR 23 March 2020 09: 50 New
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      It will be about the XVII century.
      1. vladcub 24 March 2020 12: 08 New
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        I hope it will be as interesting
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Talgarets 23 March 2020 10: 35 New
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    Especially a lot of noise was made precisely by the "map of Antarctica"

    Well, now any alternatively gifted birdie will say that this is proof of the existence of a developed "antediluvian" civilization. laughing
    1. Moon 23 March 2020 13: 05 New
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      Quote: Talgarets
      Well, now any alternatively gifted birdie will say that this is proof of the existence of a developed "antediluvian" civilization

      indirect evidence in the form of buildings and these maps (Antarctica without an ice sheet) + information about the coastlines of the Americas ...
      Of course, ancient civilization also used the knowledge of sea voyages to America and vice versa (the spread of plants).
      Piri Reis only redrawn his map from many sources (although the transfer system was incorrectly used on it). The miserable remnants of the great libraries of antiquity still bore fruit.
      It is not necessary to insist that this is the Great Atlantis or something like that. However, given the cyclical development and cataclysms leading to the decline of civilizations, anything is possible.
      I do not think that the current civilization (arising in the short period of the interglacial period) is the most developed.
      But if nothing happens, then we will become her.
  • Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 11: 53 New
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    Good stuff, Valery, thanks.
    And yet some of these pirates are not pirate. It seems to me that the concept of "naval commander" suits them much better.
    Here is another reason to think.
    Social elevators are a very necessary and useful thing, of course. But if we talk about the pure benefit of the state, should these elevators reach its very top? Or do you still need to not reach the top floor by elevator?
    In this case, I understand the concept of “elevator” as an opportunity to substantially, radically improve one’s social position during the life of one generation.
    1. VLR
      VLR 23 March 2020 12: 20 New
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      Within the framework of the existing system, of course, a stranger will not be allowed to the very top. To break into the throne or the post of head of state, special circumstances are needed. And you can find different examples, but the assessment will always be subjective. For example, Napoleon, for example, is the clearest example, but how useful or harmful was the French nation? Most French consider him a hero, although France went broke and became depopulated under him. And Karl Martell, who removed the Capetings from power? Or - the cunning Catherine II, who was supposed to just give birth to the heir to the throne, and she took it - and jumped on the throne. She killed her husband and wiped her son from power, although she did not have any, even the slightest, rights to the throne. Is this a positive example or a negative? "The Age of Golden Catherine" or - the Age of the "Wild Landlords, Slave Owners"? Or - it’s already the rootless Catherine I, who did not possess any talents of a statesman, did not want to engage in state affairs, but became the Russian Empress. Probably they will never stop arguing about the October Revolution. And how many examples can be given from Roman or Byzantine history!
      1. Pane Kohanku 23 March 2020 14: 24 New
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        Is this a positive example or a negative? "The Age of Golden Catherine" or - the Age of the "Wild Slave Landlords"?

        Valery, I could be wrong, correct! drinks But when Paul I ascended the throne, he learned that with his "dearly beloved mother" two commoners were in prison by that time, EMNIP, 20 years old, and all because that all the leisure was to disassemble their business... he commanded to put at the palace the same box where everyone could throw a petition! hi
        1. Phil77 23 March 2020 18: 57 New
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          Hi Nikolay, the great-looking image * A direct line with the president *? He, if I am not mistaken, personally examined the complaints? This is the right approach to business!
          1. Pane Kohanku 23 March 2020 19: 17 New
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            This is the right approach to business!

            I think, Sergey, that this was a forced approach to business .. when no one is doing anything around - you have to do it yourself .... what
            1. Phil77 23 March 2020 19: 25 New
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              Rather, I’ll call it a healthy distrust of the environment! And Pavel Petrovich was right! It destroyed him. The environment, a close circle.
              1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 08: 44 New
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                And after all, Pavel Petrovich was right! It destroyed him. The environment, a close circle.

                Unfortunately, the emperor surrounded himself with flattering crooks. Rostopchin ("crazy Fedka," as Catherine II called him) was ready to serve to anyone. And it is At first, Tsarevich Pavel shied away, but when mother began to show signs of ill health, he quickly ran to his camp. Interestingly, after the defeat at Austerlitz, he wrote to Alexander a letter explaining this rout by God's punishment for the murder of Paul. After that, flirted with the elderly Ekaterina Dashkova and Alexander's sister - Ekaterina Pavlovna. The last Rostopchin sent various papers from his archive - the correspondence of other people's documents. It is believed that this is exactly how, from his hand, the third letter of Aleksey Orlov from Ropsha to Catherine “surfaced” - "rushed to separate, and he (Peter III) - already dead". Through Ekaterina Pavlovna, acting on her brother, Rostopchin “knocked out” the post of Moscow mayor. And he went down in history as a bright but grotesque character of War and Peace, which confirmed the Catherine’s nickname. hi
                Kutaisov? He escaped on the night of the murder! negative
                As I understand it, Paul’s entourage, in addition, managed to set him up against the Empress. And this further facilitated the work of the conspirators. Palen also set the king against his wife. That is, without saying a word, both sides did one thing - they estranged the emperor from his wife.
                The most loyal person was who was betrayed without flattery - Arakcheev. And Paul’s biggest mistake was his removal. Shortly before the murder, Paul began to realize something, and ordered him to be returned to Petersburg. Arakcheev did not have time to return ... soldier
        2. vladcub 24 March 2020 12: 48 New
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          Nicholas, in fact, similar things were introduced back under Alexei Mikhailovich, a special box for petitions was established in Kolomenskoye. There were many of them and the emperor did not have time to check everything at once. An expression appeared: "put aside in a long box."
          Peter 1 also looked at such complaints. This is in the book of Tolstoy "Peter 1" as he wrote the resolution: "send to Kungur." Somewhere the resolution of Peter was preserved: “a story like a dog”: some governor decided that he was his own king, but he scored a bolt on everything and everything. But Peter "liked it" and ....
          1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 13: 41 New
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            An expression appeared: "put aside in a long box."

            Svyatoslav, thanks for the information, for some reason I suspected that the expression was born before the 18th century! hi Only Pavel also threw "spam" in the form of caricatures of him ... no
            Somewhere the resolution of Peter was preserved: "a story like a dog"

            Remember the historical joke about Alexander the Third? About that famous resolution? wink
            Once a soldier Oreshkin had drunk in a tavern, and began to behave cheekily, including using foul language. On the wall was a portrait of Tsar Alexander III. And when the administration tried to appease the rowdy by nodding to him that he was cursing before the tsar’s face, an aggressively stupid statement was heard in response: “Yes, I spat on your king!” Well, then they sent for the city police, twisted them, they began to sew business in the station - "insulting the monarch". It came to the king. When Alexander found out about this, he drafted a resolution of the following nature:
            "1. The case is terminated.
            2. Oreshkin release.
            3. From now on, do not hang my portraits in taverns.
            4. Oreshkin convey that I'm on him also spit. "
            soldier

            Here so! drinks
            1. vladcub 24 March 2020 14: 19 New
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              Actually, Alexander 3 is one of the best monarchs in Europe.
              Unfortunately for a long time we hung noodles about Alexander 3: a stupid reactionary and prch
              1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 38 New
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                Actually, Alexander 3 is one of the best monarchs in Europe.

                Svyatoslav, in my opinion personally - yes, he gave the country time without shocks. But behind his broad back, a whole generation of loafers grew up, which fell back when Nicholas. hi
                By the way, why is Alexander still remarkable? He is the second monarch living in Gatchina. There was his quiet family nest ... drinks
      2. Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 15: 28 New
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        Quote: VlR
        Within the framework of the existing system, of course, a stranger will not be allowed to the very top.

        If you think and summarize to the limit, it will turn out, roughly speaking, that the authorities always and everywhere have persons representing the interests of one of two categories of the population: aristocrats, that is, owners of real estate, land (until the XNUMXth century) or oligarchs (XX - XXI centuries) - owners of capital (money). But always and at all times the nominees of just one of these isolated, closed, elite, so to speak, groups became the first persons of the states.
        So, perhaps, I am inclined to the point of view according to which social elevators do not have to work up to the "last" floor and even, probably, are not desirable. It is enough to ensure regular updating of the "penultimate" floor, at least 10% per year, this is quite enough. And who there they will expose as the first person - their business, they work with him, exist and cook in one boiler.
        So everything was right in the Ottoman Empire. smile
  • Catfish 23 March 2020 12: 31 New
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    Valery, good afternoon and thank you! hi
    Here I read you and understand that I knew little (to say the least) about the Turkish fleet and its admirals of that time. All my knowledge was limited to a description of the battles with the Turks of admirals F.F. Ushakova, D.N. Senyavina and P.S. Nakhimov, also Shipka and Plevna. Of course, I heard about Piri-reis, but really did not know anything. That's all the "knowledge." Now another thing. smile
    Thanks again! And, I'm waiting for new articles. good
    1. Phil77 23 March 2020 18: 39 New
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      Hi Konstantin! I said that I had to watch * A magnificent century *! They showed Barbarossa in it too. laughing laughing laughing
      1. Catfish 23 March 2020 18: 46 New
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        Hello, Sergey! Something there is no desire to watch this film, it painfully gives soap. laughing
        1. Phil77 23 March 2020 18: 52 New
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          And this is not just * soap *, it is Turkish * a la historical soap *! fellow
          1. Catfish 23 March 2020 19: 16 New
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            Well, better ... wassat drinks
            1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 10: 43 New
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              Well, better ...

              But there are bearded men with lampshades on their heads! fellow That's it! laughing drinks

              In any case, the series is successful! hi
  • Undecim 23 March 2020 12: 44 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia, she had nothing like the described Turkish admiral pirates

    It wasn’t for one single, but very significant reason - the absence of the sea and ocean fleet as such. Accordingly, naval commanders were also absent.
    But river ships were available, so river piracy flourished for almost four hundred years, and to eliminate the ushkuyniki and their Vyatka republic (not Tortuga), Ivan III had to send a 64-thousandth army to Vyatka under the command of the governor Daniil Shcheny and Kazan Tatars led by the prince Uraka.
    1. Undecim 23 March 2020 15: 35 New
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      As I understand it, minuscule hamsters are trying to prove that in the heyday of piracy on the seas, Russia had a corresponding fleet and corresponding sailors. Can the list of naval personnel attach to the cons?
      1. Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 16: 32 New
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        Quote: Undecim
        during the heyday of piracy on the seas, Russia had a corresponding fleet

        Under the flag of Great Tartaria, not otherwise. smile
        Have you already forgotten, Viktor Nikolayevich, that Cossacks-Tartarians took Constantinople in 1453? Here, I remind you. laughing
        Mentally remove these ridiculous "turban" from the heads of the Turkish admirals and it will become completely obvious to you that these are Russian naval commanders, but the Slavs will succeed in their pure form, and not some wild Asians. So Valery, by his own efforts, not understanding this, increases the naval glory of Russia, you just need to explain to people that there were no Ottomans, but there was an Ataman (Cossack) empire with a fleet (including underwater) and aviation (including space) smile ), and instead of this you are broadcasting about the absence
        Quote: Undecim
        sea ​​and ocean fleet as such

        smile
        In general, here, of course, you need to choose from whom to draw the minuses - from the folkhistorics-patriots or their opponents-Russophobes. so that both those and others do not happen. smile
        1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 17: 44 New
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          Even I do not remember that Russophobes minus in this section what
          1. Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 19: 43 New
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            I minus, but I'm a famous Russophobe. hi Rarely, true, but with great pleasure. smile
            In general, cons - it's great! They are a clear illustration of the fact that the comment is read, perhaps even understood and achieved the goal. Cons without explanation are especially pleasant (and I have the majority smile ) - it means a person has been crippled, but there is nothing to say. And it’s also nice to know that you are being avenged, and you ... do not care! laughing
            1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 20: 00 New
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              And it’s also nice to know that you are being avenged, and you ... do not care!
              The highest degree of enlightenment of the Normanist and Russophobe !!! laughing laughing laughing
              I envy!
              1. Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 20: 12 New
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                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Highest Enlightenment Normanist and Russophobe

                Yes!
                Winged Valkyrie virgins with busts of at least the fourth size, which have been dancing around me for years now and are waiting for just a reason to devote me to einha (r) ii.
                1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 20: 40 New
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                  Oh yeah! They are still a compensation for their infertility, they also drink blood!
                  1. Catfish 23 March 2020 21: 52 New
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                    They are risky people, Anton, having swallowed yours and you can retreat to a better world. drinks
                    1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 11: 28 New
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                      They are risky people, Anton, having swallowed yours and you can retreat to a better world.

                      it’s just necessary to interfere with the “cola”. Chistogan is not an option at all, you will become an intellectual. request drinks
                      1. Catfish 24 March 2020 13: 57 New
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                        ... you will become an intellectual. request drinks

                        It doesn’t threaten that with "cola", that without it. drinks
                      2. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 50 New
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                        It doesn’t threaten that with "cola", that without it.

                        cola or sprite .... that is the question! what drinks
                      3. Catfish 24 March 2020 14: 55 New
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                        Sprite? Sir, maybe you meant alcohol? laughing
                      4. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 57 New
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                        Sprite? Sir, maybe you meant alcohol?

                        Well, I’m not the Hippo Cat to operate with pure alcohol, or a sip of gasoline, in the worst case! wink
                      5. Catfish 24 March 2020 15: 30 New
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                        It depends on which company you are drinking. The hippopotamus was part of a company where, in addition to pure alcohol, even the lady did not dare to offer anything else. smile drinks
                        And gasoline is expensive today.
                      6. Phil77 24 March 2020 16: 19 New
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                        Oh! Skukhnnnoooo! We need, we need a good historical article! In order to have something to discuss, speculate, argue. And today it’s tense. Skuschnnnoooo! what
                      7. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 16: 39 New
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                        Oh! Skukhnnnoooo! We need, we need a good historical article! In order to have something to discuss, speculate, argue. And today it’s tense. Skuschnnnoooo!

                        in general, of course, more articles would not hurt ... what On the other hand, we have the opportunity to communicate in more detail under Valery’s article, objectively, seriously, without distorting, and to mutual pleasure! And it is drinks
                      8. Phil77 24 March 2020 17: 59 New
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                        Yes, yes, yes, Nikolay Genossa. And after such nice conversations, some members of the public will call the Russophobic word * Flooders! *, And set up a statement to the prosecutor ..... no, of course to the moderators. laughing
                      9. Pane Kohanku 25 March 2020 08: 30 New
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                        Yes, yes, yes, Nicholas Genossa. And after such nice conversations, some members of the public will call the Russophobic word * Flooders! *

                        Honorable Sergey, let's hope that everything will work out. We are not doing anything wrong to anyone. A considerable part of the comments is precisely that of an informational character. hi
                      10. Phil77 25 March 2020 08: 33 New
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                        Good morning, Nikolai! Come on, nonsense, let’s break through. Who doesn’t like, let’s fishing line and fishing line on. laughing
                      11. Phil77 25 March 2020 08: 35 New
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                        By the way, today there is an interesting article about Stadukhin. Are we discussing?
                      12. Pane Kohanku 25 March 2020 09: 08 New
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                        By the way, today there is an interesting article about Stadukhin. Are we discussing?

                        in general, it is necessary, necessary. drinks I’ll work an hour and go read. Have a nice day, everyone!
  • Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 13: 48 New
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    Valkyrie winged virgins with busts of at least fourth size

    Michael, do you prefer the Japanese interpretation or the Latin one? crying I mean, the eternal dilemma is Siseido or Oise ... request The goal is to grill cisero! drinks
    for a year now a round dance has been circling around me and waiting only for a reason to devote me to einha (r) ii.

    (mentoring tone) Photo report to the studio! soldier and Einheria too! stop (by the way, what is it? sad )
    1. VLR
      VLR 24 March 2020 14: 11 New
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      Einherii are the soldiers of Valhalla. Their leader is Helgi, the brother of Sigurd (who killed the dragon and became almost invulnerable due to his blood). Helgi was killed by Odin's spear (it didn’t work out differently). After his death, Sigrun, the Valkyrie Hild (battle) - the hero's lover - died of grief.
      1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 20 New
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        After his death, Sigrun, the Valkyrie Hild (battle) - the hero's lover - died of grief.

        Colleagues, thank you so much for broadening your horizons! drinks To be honest, I'm not really in the Scandinavian epic ... recourse
        who killed the dragon and became almost invulnerable due to his blood

        we said there a little higher that Anton’s blood can be poisoned. Something in tune with .... wink
    2. Trilobite Master 24 March 2020 14: 16 New
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      Quote: Pan Kohanku
      Photo report to the studio!

      Read paragraph "b" h. 3 tbsp. 242 of the Criminal Code - from two to six years with the deprivation of the right to do something for another fifteen years.
      Einherii are not unomands, they are men, as their name implies. smile I don’t agree to change sex, even if both Valkyries and gurus ask for it at the same time. smile
      1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 24 New
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        Einherii are not unomands, they are men, as their name implies.

        Everything, the second time I understood, Valery enlightened, and you. belay In short, enchototam is a man. soldier And around him are fighting ladies with a siseido no less than three shaku in size belay Fuuu, I already thought that the "best commentator" once again tangerines "went"! good drinks
        Just kidding
        Read paragraph "b" h. 3 tbsp. 242 of the Criminal Code - from two to six years with the deprivation of the right to do something for another fifteen years.

        Thank you, do not, leave it to someone else! stop
  • Catfish 23 March 2020 21: 50 New
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    I'm a famous Russophobe


    Moreover - Russophobe trilobite !!! am
    1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 11: 32 New
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      Moreover - Russophobe trilobite !!!

      this is generally the most dangerous category of Russophobia. soldier Russophobe based on archeology. "Trilobites are the best friends of ancient Russophobes." drinks Michael, this is a friendly joke! We appreciate and adore you, sir! drinks
      1. Undecim 24 March 2020 13: 48 New
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        Well, these are the flags from the avatars removed. Otherwise, I would have remained without shoulder straps for a long time. Russophobe by definition.
        1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 13: 54 New
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          Otherwise, I would have remained without shoulder straps for a long time.

          we cannot attach a reason to every “sofa patriot” request
          Russophobe by definition.

          Yeah, such that search. lol Especially in knowledge and calligraphy. good drinks and so, yes - how you drive intellect, I don’t know whether to agree immediately or to run! tongue I am baptized and lament: "chur me, chur, put on Wii's eyelids back!" laughing friendly joke, sir! drinks in our respect you can not doubt!
          1. Undecim 24 March 2020 14: 21 New
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            we cannot attach a reason to every “sofa patriot”
            This contingent, by the way, also crushed. Here before Venia was - a giant of thought!
            And today Bar (en) The first is a pale likeness, not to mention the others, which in most cases are only minus anonymous.
            1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 32 New
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              Here before Venia was - a giant of thought!

              forget sir.
            2. Undecim 24 March 2020 14: 39 New
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              I would forget, but normal opponents disappear.
            3. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 46 New
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              I would forget, but normal opponents disappear.

              I do not need these “opponents” for nothing. hi if you correct me in something with Mikhail, Valery and other brothers, I will agree. drinks Or I will defend, but culturally. In no argument has truth been born. Usually the parties turn to the individual. request
            4. Undecim 24 March 2020 14: 51 New
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              Those who have nothing to say turn to personalities. And normal discussions do not interfere with normal, human relations. A discussion with a competent opponent only contributes to development and improvement. And then you read the comments, especially in the sections "News", "Opinions", "" Analytics "and the question arises, but did the evolution of homo sapiens go back to erectus?
            5. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 14: 55 New
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              And normal discussions do not interfere with normal, human relations. A discussion with a competent opponent only contributes to development and improvement.

              this can only be done with a person without undue prejudice, friendly, and able to accept and understand someone else's point of view. hi and everyone chooses a company on their own. Someone likes to water others with mud for the sake of unscientific currents, but I am more pleasant to spend time with you in a "safe haven of history" by a number of authors. drinks
              but did the evolution of homo sapiens go back to erectus?

              to homo vatsapiens. Or homo instagram - even cooler. request
            6. Undecim 24 March 2020 15: 10 New
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              Yes Yes. And this process will end with the fact that somewhere in the caves hairy humanoid creatures will sit around the fire and poke their polished fingers into the polished piece of obsidan in the form of an ancient ritual, following the genetic memory.
            7. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 15: 18 New
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              poke in the form of an ancient ritual with hard-fingered fingers into a polished piece of obsidan, following the genetic memory.

              yeah, or the cult of cargo. Like, "a magician will fly in a blue helicopter, and pile up buns for free" ... winked
              We recently gave the television temporarily used. wink Viktor Nikolaevich ... the third day I enjoy reading a book by a certain Oleg Ivanov about the secret of the death of Peter III (it is interesting that it really compares many facts!). good it was my darling who gave it to me after writing Petershtadt. And it is

              Before that, he flipped through the memoirs of Talleyrand ... winked and a piece of Tarle ...
              That I have not yet reached out to Paul in historical literature! (Schilder’s monumental work is worth it, but so far it’s not enough). request What a blessing - just read! good drinks
            8. Undecim 24 March 2020 16: 03 New
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              What a blessing - just read!
              That is yes. True, the presence of the word "unique" in the title of the book is alarming.
            9. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 16: 33 New
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              True, the presence of the word "unique" in the title of the book is alarming.

              such slogans to a truly intelligent person resemble a phrase to attract the attention of most of the category "You will not believe!" wink His book gives a detailed description of the letters of the former grief-emperor and his murderers. Up to how they were folded.
              But it’s interesting that the first time Orlov’s third letter (that they supposedly killed Peter III by chance) was published by Herzen in England! what And the concept there is as follows: Rostopchin made a copy (he allegedly gave the original to Pavel to read it, and he destroyed it), then it turns out to be at Vorontsov (the ambassador to England, the son of that same “Roman - Big Pocket”, Penza governor). Simply place of publication .. and publisher ... and originality of Rostopchin himself ... In short, I read! drinks
              this book, you can take a look. Perhaps, the esteemed Valery will be interested, he is “in the subject of Peter”. drinks
              https://www.litres.ru/oleg-ivanov-10627546/petr-iii-zagadka-smerti/chitat-onlayn/
          2. Phil77 24 March 2020 19: 18 New
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            You interested me in Nikolai with this book! I climbed onto the site and downloaded it! So, * we are together *, as Kinchev sang. hi
          3. Pane Kohanku 25 March 2020 08: 32 New
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            You interested me in Nikolai with this book! I climbed onto the site and downloaded it! So, * we are together *, as Kinchev sang.

            That's it! drinks And just that the comments are informative in nature, plus they lead to the spread of education. request The book is read a little taut, you need to constantly focus so as not to miss anything. But the information there is very interesting. drinks
  • Catfish 23 March 2020 17: 50 New
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    Laugh - laugh ... laughing And Tartarena from Tartaria knows the whole world. drinks
    1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 19: 21 New
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      The son of a simple carpenter from Nazareth, also knows the whole world.
      "The case at the Gate.
      Changed to Peter:
      -Well, as I am, a simple carpenter, you see all your palms in corns ...
      -And what? Come on a business card !!!
      -Well, ettt ... Like ... They said they would let me ...
      Well, they say, all the carpenters are allowed ...
      - This floor below let all the rogues, and we have a decent institution!
      Jesus comes here
      - “Trouble”, boys?
      -Yes, here, they are breaking into the club here ...
      Jesus is in a benevolent mood, decides to find out from the applicant the basis for penetration, he again starts to go gunny:
      - I, a simple carpenter, but my son knows the whole world ..
      Jesus is changing in the face:
      -Father!!!?????
      "Pinocchio?!?! ??"
    2. Trilobite Master 23 March 2020 19: 57 New
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      And I don’t laugh, Kostya. Do you think I came up with something here as usual? But no. tongue All this is completely serious and from the point of view of some gifted, it is quite a truth to itself in the last resort. I just remembered some battles a year or two ago and reproduced some of their points. No fantasies for its part.
      1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 20: 57 New
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        I think, Uncle Kostya, I haven’t seen such a thing in the smoking room of the State Historical Museum.
      2. Catfish 23 March 2020 22: 02 New
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        Misha, but I can’t talk about these clients without laughing, I saw these stubborn, five minutes of their clever speeches was enough for my hand to involuntarily start looking for a gun on my belt. They and the "experts" of everything and everything in the world, this is the worst nightmare of an employee of any museum. And after all, you can get rid of them only in one way - by shooting to the mother’s unit. So Anton is right, I looked enough and heard enough, and not just in the smoking room.
        1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 15: 26 New
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          look for a gun on his belt.

          Before the war, the Nagan was preferable to tankers! wink Shoot especially stubborn through the fire hatches! laughing
          1. Catfish 24 March 2020 15: 33 New
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            Nagan was out of date before the first Russian revolution. request In our crews, the personnel was PM, also there was no light in the window, but at least there were no problems with reloading. Yes, you yourself know this little thing well.
            1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 15: 54 New
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              In our crews, the personnel was PM, also there was no light in the window, but at least there were no problems with reloading. Yes, you yourself know this little thing well.

              I know. Before the war, it was believed that in a critical situation the crew could shoot from revolvers - the gun barrel was inconvenient at the same time. After the war, extra hatches were abandoned.
              1. Catfish 24 March 2020 15: 58 New
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                Yes, I know. Before the war, there was a lot of foolishness, including wheeled and tracked tanks. And about Makar, my deputy commander of the battalion said that the tanker needed him only to shoot himself when the tank was hit. "From the first Chinese killed I will take off the machine!" -- His words.
                1. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 16: 22 New
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                  And about Makar, my Zampotech battalion said that a tanker needed him only to shoot himself when a tank was built.

                  The tankman rightly "from his bell tower" looked! request
                  Before the war, there was a lot of foolishness, including wheeled and tracked tanks

                  the concept tested by the war was not! hi
                2. Catfish 24 March 2020 16: 28 New
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                  the concept tested by the war was not!

                  And not only, as they say, all generals are preparing for the past war. I read only about one that was preparing for the future - Guderian. I mean exclusively tankers.
                3. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 16: 41 New
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                  I read only about one that was preparing for the future - Guderian.

                  Tukhachevsky was also preparing for the "future." Germans just clearly had a better idea of ​​how to fight no As though, the bitter truth! recourse recourse Although before the fig everything was done following the results of the Finnish war, when the army washed it with blood. soldier
                4. Catfish 24 March 2020 16: 54 New
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                  Tukhachevsky does not have a single serious work on the principles of a future war, only collections of scattered articles. Svechin and Triandofilov developed the theory of "Deep Operation", none of them even thought about Blitzkrieg. What kind of rapid attack can we talk about if Tukhachevsky made the speed of the offensive of the armies dependent on the speed of reconfiguration of their railroad track under our rut. Guderian did not say a word about railways in his work, Attention, Tanks.
                5. Pane Kohanku 24 March 2020 17: 25 New
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                  What kind of rapid attack can we talk about if Tukhachevsky made the speed of the offensive of the armies dependent on the speed of reconfiguration of their railroad track under our rut.

                  as a result, the Germans already stumbled on this in our territory. At first, a huge motley fleet gave an advantage "on a jerk." Then the nightmare began with logistics. hi
                6. Catfish 24 March 2020 21: 19 New
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                  Then the nightmare began with logistics. hi

                  The Germans logistics nightmare began even earlier, because the generals of the First World War did not understand the principles of a new, motorized war. It’s like in our country, Stalin promptly removed Semyon Budenny and Klim Voroshilov from leading positions. They, like the German old-timers, with all desire, could not enter the principles of a new, mechanized war. The German generals, although education was in comparison with Syoma, but ... still did not help. As a result, due to their (staff generals) miscalculations in logistics, Heinz was removed and returned only when it was no longer possible to correct something. We already had Rokossovsky, and Guderian could no longer be a rival to him, my namesake learned the lessons of the teacher well and began to beat him with his own weapons. And yet, Hitler himself did everything possible to lose this war.
                7. Pane Kohanku 25 March 2020 08: 37 New
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                  As a result, due to their (staff generals) miscalculations in logistics, Heinz was removed and returned only when it was no longer possible to correct something.

                  Heinz was removed when his group ran out of steam, and he personally flew to persuade the Fuhrer to go on the defensive. I think there were many factors to this. Until the end of the 41st year, the Germans, for the most part, supplied troops precisely with vehicles. Yes, at first it was - "heaps." But enormous distances .. a motley fleet of vehicles .. first a muddle, then winter .. and then a retreat with the throwing of everything and everything! Less than 70 cars per winter, as Isaev wrote in the book "The Offensive of Marshal Shaposhnikov." By the way, Alexey Valerievich in that book made one very unpleasant mistake .. well, oh well. hi
                8. Catfish 25 March 2020 16: 35 New
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                  ... Isaev wrote in the book "The Offensive of Marshal Shaposhnikov." By the way, Alexey Valerievich in that book made one very unpleasant mistake .. well, oh well.

                  Nicholas hi , I have not read this book, what kind of mistake and for what reason?
  • vladcub 24 March 2020 12: 55 New
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    Michael, your tongue is not nettle
    1. Catfish 25 March 2020 17: 30 New
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      Where is the nettle, pure cobra. good
      1. vladcub 26 March 2020 12: 23 New
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        Konstantin, it’s good that Mikhail doesn’t touch us, otherwise ... Wah-wah
  • vladcub 24 March 2020 12: 52 New
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    V. N. You wanted a lot. Enough with you pictures
  • Moon 23 March 2020 13: 10 New
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    Zenith of the Ottoman Empire.
    Christians were barely able to stay on the extreme lines.
    Perhaps only the Spaniards (and the Maltese) could compete with them ... the same religious and stubborn sailors. Italy is fragmented and collaborated with pirates. Greeks are generally a supplier of slaves. Balkan countries also worked at the OI (Urban)
    To the credit of the Ottomans, they are not too fanatical in religion and made it possible for the non-believers to work and pursue a career. What can not be said about the Maghreb (especially Morocco)
    And it brought success.
    But the zenith is always followed by decline and decline. And competitors are vice versa.
  • Undecim 23 March 2020 14: 09 New
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    The author does not seem to relate to folkhistorics, but he wrote about the Piri-Reis map in the folkhistory style. Or is it a bait? There the bar has already arrived, though I didn’t understand his question on galleons. Why, in fact, Piri-reis could not draw a galleon on the map? Or maybe this is not an early galleon, but a late karaka?
    As for the map, then the author, as they say, "caught the wave." Firstly, it’s worth dividing “Kitab-i-Bahriye”, the location of the Mediterranean Sea, the centuries-old and experience of navigation according to which Piri-reis was generalized, and his two world maps, the fragment of the first is described by the author, in the fragment of the second, 1528, the space from Greenland is shown on north to Cuba in the south.
    The correct ideas of Piri-reis (or an unknown author of the maps used by him) about the shape and size of the Earth are surprising among modern geographers.
    They do not cause any surprise in modern cartographers. There are modern maps for them, and more precisely, for example. Map of the Portuguese Diogo Ribeiro.

    As for Antarctica on the map, the version that it is Antarctica was launched by the American folkgeographer (there also have their own bars) Arlington Humphrey Mallery. After that, all marginal fans of the pole shift and other mysticism fertilize this fertile field with information dung.
    And normal cartographers, they know that starting with the Greek mathematician Ptolemy, everyone at this place draws in accordance with their fantasy Terra Australis Incognita, which serves to counterbalance the northern continents.
    1. VLR
      VLR 23 March 2020 14: 57 New
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      Well, I did not emphasize, and did not emphasize, but simply could not ignore this story with the "mysterious map" of Piri-reis - as if not to relate to it. Because otherwise the accusations would be that I “hush up,” “fulfill the order,” and, perhaps, I myself am a member of the Masonic lodge, whose purpose in existence is to deprive humanity of the “secret knowledge of antiquity”. Therefore, I fluently talked about the main advanced versions.
      1. Undecim 23 March 2020 14: 59 New
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        And what is your argument about the galleons with Bar-an first? Am I missing something?
        1. VLR
          VLR 23 March 2020 15: 09 New
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          In my opinion, he wants to prove that the Turks could sail these galleons to America. Or that they swam? I don’t remember anymore.
          1. Undecim 23 March 2020 15: 27 New
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            Theoretically could. Obviously, this was not the task.
            1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 18: 49 New
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              Theoretically, anyone could. Hierdahl proved. But, as usual, for modern reenactors, there are a lot of questions
    2. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 17: 47 New
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      which serves as a counterweight to the northern continents.
      So that they do not crawl to the South Pole?
      1. Undecim 23 March 2020 19: 02 New
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        So that the planet does not roll over. Starting from the fifth century, in my opinion from Macrobius, there was a theory that land on the surface of the planet should be distributed evenly. According to this theory, it was supposed that Terra Australis - Southern Earth exists.
        1. 3x3zsave 23 March 2020 19: 52 New
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          Glimpsed somewhere, once, read. Accordingly, in a troubled mind, the question arose. My respect, your encyclopedia, Viktor Nikolaevich! However, as always !!!!
  • Xenofont 23 March 2020 20: 53 New
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    Remarkable is the role of Piali in the deplorable outcome of the siege of Malta for the Turks. The Sultan did not bother to subordinate the army and navy to a single command, as a result of which the Admiral sabotaged the demand of the army commander Mustafa Pasha to take active measures to block the island from Sicily, from which the Knights were waiting for help. As a reinsurer, the admiral demanded the capture of a bay well protected from the weather to create a base, and from spring to autumn 1565 engaged in frank garbage, sending his sailors ashore as hard workers. And when the reinforcement of the Viceroy of Sicily came, there was no one to meet him and the mere rumor of the arrival of the Spanish infantry led to a panicky evacuation of the remnants of the Turkish army on ships and a shameful flight.
  • cat Rusich 23 March 2020 21: 20 New
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    When the Ottoman fleet had the opportunity to rob and piracy, the Turkish fleet flourished. The fleet was commanded by the best people of the Ottoman Empire. When the Turkish fleet was deprived of the opportunity to piracy - Reis (and all other captains and naval commanders) had to live on a "bare salary" - the Turkish fleet began to suffer defeat after defeat, for example from F. Ushakov, who did not engage in piracy and worked "for the idea and salary income from personal property. "
  • Moon 23 March 2020 21: 55 New
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    But are there pictures of the Galeona Rossa / Red Inferno French-Maltese galleon?
    Chu - Red Devil in Russian ..
    And then famous and famous.
    Of the famous, I collected only the Drake galleon.
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