Polish heroes of Russian revolutions

Polish heroes of Russian revolutions

Internationalists are not by blood, but by spirit



It is unlikely that anyone will argue that representatives of national minorities made a contribution to the three Russian revolutions that was absolutely inadequate to the role assigned to them in the Russian Empire. And this, in fact, can be understood, and besides, one should not forget that all the revolutionary parties have relied on the nationals in their political struggle.

For the majority, this was recorded in programs, many directly promised the Poles, Finns, and even the politically backward Baltic states independence or at least autonomy. By the way, the Ukrainians in this respect were generally in a special position, but the Belarusians managed to seriously express themselves only with the support of the Bolsheviks.

However, while Jews were certainly the first in the national top list of Russian revolutionaries, the Poles definitely claimed the second place. At the same time, it must be admitted that they really showed themselves clearly only in October 1917 and after it. Together with the extreme left, such as the Bolsheviks, part of the Socialist-Revolutionaries and Mensheviks, they declared their commitment to world revolution and internationalism, but they decided to solve narrow national tasks first and foremost.

The main issue on the agenda of any more or less significant national association has always been the issue of independence. For a hundred years, the Poles did not wait for favors from Russian tsarism, as did Michurin from nature, and raised uprisings at every moment, as soon as the empire experienced difficulties. So it was under Catherine the Great in 1794, and in 1830, and in 1863.

One should only be surprised that Poland did not really flare up in 1848-49, when the well-known ghost "wandered through Europe." Most likely, in Warsaw and Lodz, without receiving any support from Austrian Krakow and the German Poznan and Danzig, they were simply afraid that the Nikolaev army would go through Russian Poland in the same rink as it had in rebellious Hungary.


Polish revolution, which took place in Russia in 1905, was perceived by Polish politicians, regardless of their views, as a unique chance. Your Polish chance. The Polish lands of the empire, which were relatively backward compared with the rest of Europe, were far ahead of almost all Russian provinces, with the exception of only two capital provinces.

Already in the early 1890s, industrial production was ahead of agriculture in the value of its output. Correspondingly, the number of the proletariat, which was quite revolutionary for itself, also increased greatly. However, fifteen years later, in battles with the Red Army, the Polish working class showed that at heart each of its representatives is more like a failed pan than a proletarian who has nothing to lose but chains.

There were few real violent


However, it was in 1905 in Warsaw and Lodz that it was sometimes as hot as in Moscow and St. Petersburg. But the Polish revolutionaries clearly lacked truly outstanding leaders. One of them could be the Social Democrat Martin Kaspshak, who was well acquainted with Plekhanov, but he ended up in prison in the spring of 1904 at the height of the anti-war demonstrations when he defended one of the underground printing houses. On September 8, 1905, Kaspšak was executed in the Warsaw Fortress.


At the monument to Martin Kasprzyk in his native village of Cholovo, near Poznan, there are always fresh flowers

Another potential leader, Józef Pilsudski, who headed the militant organization of the socialist party - the PPS, by that time had neither authority nor experience of revolutionary struggle. From what the comrades could credit the future “commandant”, “marshal” and “head of state”, there will be a link to the Siberian Kirensk, as well as an escape from the St. Petersburg madhouse.

Pilsudski militants began to shoot back in late 1904, before Bloody Sunday. By winter, anti-war rallies and demonstrations in Polish cities had quieted down a bit, but after the fall of Port Arthur and especially after the shooting of a peaceful march in St. Petersburg on January 9, they flared up with renewed vigor. Many Polish parties demanded not only independence, but also the overthrow of the monarchy.


It’s hard enough to recognize Józef Pilsudski in this photo of 1899

However, the leaders included mostly moderate politicians, primarily from the "endemic" - the National Democratic Party. This party has long held tough anti-Russian positions, considering even aggressive Germanization as a lesser evil in comparison with “royal oppression”. However, during the days of the first Russian revolution, the endion leader Roman Dmovsky made an unexpected turn, believing that only Russia could unite Slavic Polish lands. The politician expected that she would immediately make concessions to the Poles and even autonomy.

Later, Dmovsky became a deputy of the State Duma of the second and third convocations, and set forth his ideas in the program book “Germany, Russia and the Polish Question”, where he wrote the following:

“In this international situation, it is clear for Polish society that if it is threatened in the future by the loss of national existence, then not from Russia, but from Germany.”

Emperor Nicholas II liked this so much that he subsequently declared "the restoration of integral Poland" one of Russia's main goals in the world war. "Integral", of course, under the scepter of the Romanovs.


Roman Dmovsky: either Russophobe or Russophile

Meanwhile, it was Dmovsky who was originally one of the ideologists of the struggle against Russification by all possible means. According to him:

“Russian domination has already shown what it can do with the help of the greatest oppression and far-reaching means of Russification. These funds could not even slightly reduce the independence and national independence of the Poles, did not even partially introduce the Polish element into the Russian body, and if they caused huge damage to Polish society, it was only in the sense of delaying cultural progress by destroying Polish centuries-old work, weakening the bonds of public organization and the moral wildness of entire sections of the population resulting from this. ”

Another thing is that the leadership qualities of such a politician were quite in demand in the Russian decorative parliament - the Duma, but not in revolutionary battles. Polish workers and peasants still seized the strike movement in the autumn of 1905, but, unlike the Moscow proletariat, after the manifesto of October 17 (30), their activity quickly waned.

A characteristic sign that the revolution "in Polish" ended in 1905 with virtually nothing can be considered the fact that almost all the active politicians of the western provinces of Russia were successfully elected to the State Duma of the first convocation. Except for the irreconcilable Pilsudski, who simply boycotted the Russian elections and ... the leader of the NDP Dmovsky. The emperor himself did not have time to “evaluate” the first of the endecs, but, most likely, he later assessed, and nothing prevented the election of a rather popular politician.


They are called the fathers of Polish independence. Jozef Pilsudski and Roman Dmowski

Meanwhile, the “elected” from the western provinces formed a special Polish colo in the Duma, which initially included 33 deputies, in the second convocation - already 45. Later, after the dispersal of the Second Duma, the tsarist government managed to “cut” the Polish colo into Dumas of the III and IV convocations up to 11 and even 9 deputies.

It is interesting that in the State Council of Russia there was also a small Polish colo, but even among its members no one was able to compete with the same Jozef Pilsudski. However, up to the world war and Pilsudski, by and large, only the arrows themselves, his future legionnaires, knew well.

Fierce revolutionaries


(Luty is “February” in Polish.)

February 1917, the "call" of Polish revolutionaries, too, can hardly be seriously compared with the heroes of the October and Civil War, led by Iron Felix - Dzerzhinsky. However, unlike the revolution of 1905, when the activity of the Poles was mainly limited by Poland, many “heroes” of this nationality managed to prove themselves in the events in Petrograd.

And although today their names are known only to specialists, it is simply necessary to recall some of their deeds. Already because, at least, that it is often too obvious both in deeds and in words, a very special Polish specificity. To begin with, we note that members of the Polish colo entered the notorious Provisional Committee of the State Duma, which, even before the abdication of Nicholas II, was ready to assume full power in Russia.

From the composition of the Provisional Duma Committee there was also an nominated Polish leader, who can hardly be called informal - 50-year-old Alexander Lednitsky. This pan nobleman was born outside Minsk, a brilliant speaker, but a rather modest lawyer, who could hardly compete in popularity with Pilsudsky or Dmovsky in those days. But first of all, on the night of March 1, the Chairman of the Duma personally, Mikhail Rodzianko, sent the Pole Lednitsky to the throne to report on the revolutionary events in Petrograd.


Pan Lawyer Alexander Lednitsky

When it became clear that the matter was steadily leading to the fact that the Provisional Government would grant Poland even autonomy and independence, Lednitsky led the Duma commission - the liquidation committee for the affairs of the Kingdom of Poland. As you can see, feeling himself omnipotent, Lednitsky even refuses to recognize the Polish National Committee, which has settled in Paris, headed by the same Dmovsky.

The affairs of the "liquidators" were moving slowly - the independence of the occupied territories is easy to declare, but difficult to put into practice. Having come to power, the Bolsheviks took for granted the appointment of Lednitsky as representative of the Regency Council of the bastard Kingdom of Poland. We recall, in 1916, the Austro-German occupation authorities hastily concocted them on the Polish lands of the Russian Empire.

And soon Lenin's Council of People's Commissars decided to expel Lednitsky from Russia, putting an end to his political career. It is a paradox, but he was not accepted as one of the leaders in Warsaw and Paris either - they considered him too “Russian”. Lednitsky generally ended badly - during the reign of Pilsudsky, he was involved in financial frauds and committed suicide in 1934.

In addition to Lednitsky, mainly Poles with a smaller caliber managed to distinguish themselves in February days. So, the group of soldiers of the Volyn regiment that arrested the premier Germanophile Sturmer was assigned to lead the Pole, Lieutenant Shimansky, which can hardly be considered an accident. Another officer of the same regiment, Yablonsky, became the commander of the detachment, which cleared the printing house of the newspaper Kopeyka for the publication of Izvestia of the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies.

Among the military columns marching with red bows in front of the Tauride Palace where the Duma was sitting, one of the first was the column of the Life Guards of the Jäger Regiment, and it was commanded by a member of the PPS (Józef Pilsudski, on the other side of the front), Warrant Officer V. Matushevsky. The Tauride Palace itself was guarded by outfits under the command of Lieutenant A. Skobeiko, again a Pole.


Surprisingly, in those days, many Russian politicians seriously believed that the revolutionary Poles would not even think about stuttering independence now. So, Miliukov’s subordinate from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, who headed the legal department, Baron Nolde directly said: “Poland does not need independence. Better give them ulans, uniforms and other tinsel. ” But almost the first statement by Milyukov as minister was the promise of at least autonomy for Finland and ... Poland.

However, almost all the Poles, one way or another involved in military affairs, counted just on the operational formation of an independent Polish army. Even as part of the Russian, no longer imperial, army. This will be negotiated with the next interim Prime Minister Kerensky, and this will be discussed by the participants in the congress of Poles-military in Petrograd.


“Creating a Polish army can help your and our freedom.” So in May 1917, the insatiable B. Matushevsky convinced his Russian listeners, the namesake of the ensign from the life huntsman, who, as early as 1915, had literally sold the idea with the Polish legions in the Russian army. The case with the legions, as you know, was very stalled, and by 1920 in the new Poland they had completely forgotten about “our” and “your” freedom.
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  1. Amateur 20 March 2020 05: 54 New
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    And about the most Soviet of all the Poles of the “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky why is there nothing?
    1. Arlen 20 March 2020 06: 01 New
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      Quote: Amateur
      And about the most Soviet of all the Poles of the “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky why is there nothing?

      Because Felix Edmundovich was the most Russian Pole. In fact, it is difficult to call Dzerzhinsky, as well as Rokossovsky Poles. Both representatives of the Polish people are more Russian. And both Poles have done a lot for the Russian people.
      1. Olgovich 20 March 2020 07: 55 New
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        Quote: Arlen
        Because Felix Edmundovich was the most Russian Pole.


        Precisely, "Rusak", therefore, dreamed of in his youth "get a hat-invisibility, so that with its help to destroy as many Muscovites as possible".

        He embodied his dream:
        “Felix Edmundovich himself asked for a job on the Cheka,” said his faithful friend and deputy. by Cheka M. Lacis (recognized by the Supreme Court of the USSR as a spy, traitor, fascist-shot)


        Dzerzhinsky personally shot from a revolver .... in his office fool

        Dzerzhinsky himself picked up the shots, which is what his contemporary said about them:
        “Dzerzhinsky broke into the underworld by releasing an army of pathological and criminal entities in the Cheka. He perfectly understood the terrible power of his army.
        An army of monsters of sadism, a kunstkamera, suitable for a criminalist and a psychopathologist, surged from a hacked social underground.
        .

        "But what he said about him I.V. Stalin
        "Dzerzhinsky voted for Trotsky, not just voted, but openly supported Trotsky under Lenin against Lenin. It was a very active Trotskyist., and he wanted to raise the GPU to defend Trotsky. "


        As for Poland, 102 years ago, the Bolsheviks solemnly announced the invalidity of ALL sections of Poland, thereby recognizing the Polish border of 1779 along the Dnieper.

        Which served as one of the reasons for the Sovesto-Polish war and all subsequent conflicts for the Eastern Chairs, which does not subside today .....
        1. Arlen 20 March 2020 08: 05 New
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          Still, Alexander Suvorov is right when he says about you: "Ward number 6 woke up."
          1. Alexander Suvorov 20 March 2020 09: 09 New
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            Arlen
            Still, Alexander Suvorov is right when he says about you: "Ward number 6 woke up."
            Colleague hi Of course, I’m right, because of anti-Sovietism, he developed an extreme stage of schizophrenia, aggravated by the use of raw Moldovan barmatuha, which certainly cannot be treated with medical methods.

            As for the Poles themselves, in spite of my extremely negative attitude towards the Poles as a whole, I cannot but admit that among them there were outstanding personalities who actually served Russia faithfully, it’s enough to recall such figures as: Yaguzhinsky, Potemkin (his grandfather was named Potempkovsky), Ozharovsky, Raevsky, Biskupsky, Rzhevussky, Pototsky, Krukovsky, Przhevalsky, Tsiolkovsky and many many others, and of course Dzerzhinsky and Rokossovsky!
            These were PEOPLE, real sons of Russia, albeit with Polish roots. And today in Poland there are sensible people who care for our monuments, who understand the importance of friendship with Russia, but unfortunately they are very, very few in comparison with the outspoken haters of Russia, which is a pity.
            1. podymych 20 March 2020 12: 18 New
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              I wouldn’t be so sweeping
              all Poles write in Russophobia. This is, of course, genetic, but unlike politicians, the masses have not ceased to understand something, see for example:
              http://www.stoletie.ru/lenta/polaki_rasskazali_o_svojom_otnoshenii_k_krasnoj_armii_807.htm
              1. Reptiloid 21 March 2020 12: 37 New
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                Quote: podymych
                I wouldn’t be so sweeping
                all Poles write in Russophobia. This is, of course, genetic, but unlike politicians, the masses have not ceased to understand something, see for example:
                http://www.stoletie.ru/lenta/polaki_rasskazali_o_svojom_otnoshenii_k_krasnoj_armii_807.htm

                Somehow I got into the links W to an article about a Pole Dzevaltovsky, Ignatius Leonovich.
                It turned out unknown to me a revolutionary fate.
                In October 1917 --- the Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee from October 26, 1917 --- the commissar of the Winter Palace, a member of the headquarters to combat the rebellion of Krasnov, later oversaw military schools and other posts with the Bolsheviks. Apparently, he was an intelligent and versatile person, since under his leadership there was a diplomatic mission to China.
                As it is written, then he was disappointed and in 1925 fled to Poland, where he died in 1935 from some kind of illness.
                But before the escape in 1925 he had a reconnaissance post in the Baltic states from the Headquarters of the Red Army
            2. ccsr 20 March 2020 19: 41 New
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              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              on the basis of anti-Sovietism, he developed an extreme stage of schizophrenia, aggravated by the use of raw Moldovan barmatukha, which certainly cannot be treated with medical methods.

              This I can also confirm - neither turn it down, nor turn it up ....
          2. Olgovich 20 March 2020 09: 40 New
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            Quote: Arlen
            Still right Alexander Suvorov I speak about you: "Ward number 6 woke up"

            Alas, with Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov, did not have the honor of being acquainted, he died in the century before last.

            And today's so-called ..... "Alexander Suvorov" belay fool lol they are perplexing among normal people, and revere only among the "Napoleons" and the "Macedonian" neighbors in terms of "greatness" and the corresponding institution.

            PS essentially nothing to say?

            Why then your verbal garbage? request
            1. Alexander Suvorov 20 March 2020 09: 51 New
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              Olgovich (Andrey)
              And today's so-called ..... "Alexander Suvorov" belay fool lol are bewildering in normal people
              That you yourself then refer to the "normal" ?! laughing laughing laughing
            2. Dart2027 20 March 2020 19: 20 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              with Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov

              But he did take Warsaw.
        2. Foul skeptic 20 March 2020 11: 01 New
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          that's what a contemporary said about them

          Is that a ghoul? Your rejection of certain things has made you completely illegible in the sources. They began to use some rubbish, Andrey.
          1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 10: 13 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic

            Is that a ghoul? Your rejection of certain things has made you completely illegible in the sources. They began to use some rubbish, Andrey.

            This is a contemporary. He told the truth. Can you refute? Or could a normal person live in this wild hell of endless reckless executions?

            By the way, there are almost no recollections of your idols, the then Chekists, for all practices in 1937-40 were recognized spies, terrorists, traitors and fascists-According to the USSR Armed Forces. Respectively, shot.

            Fi, well, you have idols ..... negative
            1. Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 10: 33 New
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              By the way, memories Your idols

              Well, this is not necessary.
              This is a contemporary. He told the truth.

              How did you determine that this is true? Because you so wanted?
              This "contemporary" never crossed with either Dzerzhinsky or Dzerzhinsky's entourage, so that his "judgments" would have some weight. He was on the other side of the barricades and therefore, of course, absolutely “neutral” in his judgments (and in the book this is so immediately evident) wassat From 1919 until his death he was not in Russia at all.
              Therefore, of course, all that he wrote is pure truth laughing
              Or could a normal person live in this wild hell of endless reckless executions?

              And what, he lived in the RSFSR / USSR? wassat Or, in your opinion, all the others who stayed are crazy? On a dangerous track with this position of steel. Better not continue, otherwise I’ll roll you out, catching on this phrase)))
              We wish you a good weekend. Spend them better on something more useful than on bile splashes on this forum, take a walk with your grandchildren, so they will be able to vparit what Gul wrote. hi
              1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 11: 47 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                How did you determine that this is true? Because you so wanted?

                Because it was so
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                This "contemporary" never crossed with either Dzerzhinsky or Dzerzhinsky's entourage, so that his "judgments" would have some weight.

                It has weight, in contrast to YOUR idols who have completely stumbled around
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                And what, he lived in the RSFSR / USSR? Or do you think everyone else who stayed - crazy? On a dangerous track with this position of steel. Better not go on, otherwise I I'll roll you clinging to this phrase)))

                where is it? fool
                do not carry nonsense, you are ridiculous and funny lol .
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                We wish you a good weekend.

                in response
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Spend them better on something more useful than splashing bile on this forum.

                Your advice, in the company to the Council, there too yes
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                so they can

                With fen to fen yes
                1. Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 11: 50 New
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                  Because it was so

                  Has weight

                  Well, yes, the inscriptions on fences have the same success.
                  1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 11: 54 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Oh well, just as well have weight inscriptions on the fences.

                    Who are you? belay lol
                    1. Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 12: 04 New
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                      I am a registered member of topwar.ru. Just like you. Or do you need some personal information? Or are you trying to let me know that I have no right to voice my thoughts here? Strange question, don’t you? But he takes away from the fact that if you read the book of Gulya, you would understand that it is semi-artistic.
                      1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 13: 43 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        I am a registered member of topwar.ru. Just like you. Or do you need some personal information? Or are you trying to fail under the fact that I do not have the right here to voice my thoughts?


                        I am trying FOR THE TIME to convey to you that you-none, in order to determine what is "inscription on the fence" and what is not.

                        WHAT is again incomprehensible? request
                      2. Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 14: 13 New
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                        You do not take much upon yourself with statements that I am "nobody in something"? Have you tried to address yourself the same?
                        The last week I did not enter into communication with you, but if possible I put you pluses, where I saw that you are being minus just like that, and not for the content of the messages. And I do not like bullying in any form. But now I see clearly that when a person is ...., then you can’t do anything.
                      3. Olgovich 21 March 2020 14: 46 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        You do not take much upon yourself with statements that I am "nobody in something"?

                        not in something, but in order to determine For otherswhat is the "inscription on the fence" and what is not.
                        Why on earth? belay
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        Have you tried to address yourself the same?

                        I do not impose anything like this on you.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        The last week I did not enter into communication with you, but if possible I put you pluses, where I saw that you minus just like that, not the content of the posts.

                        I am glad that you have not reached the point where Suvorov, who with three hands violently minuses ALL of my comments, including ... anti-Nazi or, for example, about George Ots lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        And I do not like bullying in any form

                        like
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        But now I see clearlythat when a person - .... then there’s nothing you can do.

                        Move away from the mirror and everything will fall into place hi wink

                        PS I personally treat you with sympathy and consider myself an educated person.

                        And I will never say this to you:
                        But now I see clearly that when a person is ...., then you can’t do anything.
    2. naidas 20 March 2020 16: 05 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      Exactly, a “Rusak”, therefore, in his youth dreamed of “having a hat-invisibility in order to exterminate as many Muscovites as possible”.

      Again, from the trash, these Orthodox sources of yours refer to the "Prisoner's Diary. Letters." But there is no talk about your nonsense about the cap-invisibility.

      Maybe they themselves indicate the source of their delirium from Dzerzhinsky?
      1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 10: 29 New
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        Quote: naidas
        Again with dumps typed, these your Orthodox sources refer to the "Prisoner's Diary. Letters." But there isn’t about your nonsense about the invisibility cap.

        Maybe they themselves indicate the source of their delirium from Dzerzhinsky?

        I understand that you like to rummage on dumpsbut I do not approve, for it "smells", fi negative .

        There are primary sources:
        “As a boy, I dreamed of an invisible hat and the destruction of all Muscovites. Being in the gymnasium before the 6th grade, I was very religious, I was even going to enter the Roman Catholic theological seminary. Mother and one priests dissuaded me from this. Because of religious practice, I even had quarrels with my older brother. Being in 4th grade, I made them pray to God. When, as a student, my older brother arrived for the holidays and asked me how I imagine my God? I answered him: "God is in the heart." And he said: “If I ever come to the conclusion that there is no God, I will put a bullet in my forehead. However, this did not happen. When I was in the 6th grade of the gymnasium, a turning point occurred - in 1894. Then I raged for a year with the fact that there is no God, and I ardently proved it to everyone. ”
        RGASPI.F.7.0P.4.D.2.L.2.

        Got it, no? no
        1. Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 11: 41 New
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          It seems to me that you sat down in a puddle again and confirmed that you draw information from Internet dumps)))
          This is what you indicated
          RGASPI.F.7.0P.4.D.2.L.2.

          contains documents on the life and activities of the participants in the Paris Commune Longue winked
          For some reason, as a source confirming the passage you quoted, it appears in the "articles" on livejournal. Moreover, the scribes themselves refer to the source - the book "Who are you," Iron Felix "." But if you spend literally five minutes, then it turns out that in this book there is a footnote number 33 behind this passage. And the source for this footnote
          РГАСПИ.Ф.76.ОП.2.Д.156.Л.2-6

          Oh how uncomfortable came out laughing tongue
          1. Olgovich 21 March 2020 11: 52 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Oh how uncomfortable came out

            left lol

            What ... inconvenient?

            belay fool lol
            It "
            I dreamed of an invisible hat and the destruction of all Muscovites
            "-confirmed documented?
            Yes.

            Archive one? And the storage number is a typo, it happens.

            Funny you .... lol
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Olgovich 24 March 2020 17: 10 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            articles "on livejournal. At the same time, the scribes themselves refer to the source - the book" Who are you, Iron Felix ". But if you spend literally five minutes, it turns out that in this book there is a footnote under this passage 33 number. And on this footnote source
            РГАСПИ.Ф.76.ОП.2.Д.156.Л.2-6

            Well, I believed you, and you -, for the umpteenth time! - sat in a puddle:
            behind by that passage goes footnote under 38, and on this footnote the source RGASPI.F.7.0P.4.D.2.L.2.Oh,
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            how uncomfortable it turned out

            You once again
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            and confirmed that the information you scoop in the trash)))

            However, there are typos ... yes
            1. Foul skeptic 24 March 2020 18: 15 New
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              Hello, hello! Well, let's figure it out.
              I'll start over. Since those very Livejournals, since it is there that the passage is found in the form that you quoted, and with the wrong archival matter. Here are the links:
              https://kommari.livejournal.com/2462471.html
              https://arhivar-rus.livejournal.com/600812.html
              At the beginning, the archive is indicated in these LJ:
              F.E. Dzerzhinsky, 1922.
              RGASPI.F.7.0P.4.D.2.L.2.

              You indicated it in your message
              Also in LJ is indicated a literary source:
              From the book: Alexander Plekhanov, "Who are you," Iron Felix "

              Here is the passage itself (which you and LJ have, of course):
              As an inquisitive gymnasium student, Dzerzhinsky was fond of biblical and gospel myths and legends, and church doctrine. In 1922, he recalled: “As a boy, I dreamed of an invisible hat and the destruction of all Muscovites. Being in the gymnasium before the 6th grade, I was very religious, I was even going to enter the Roman Catholic theological seminary. Mother and one priests dissuaded me from this. Because of religious practice, I even had quarrels with my older brother. Being in 4th grade, I made them pray to God. When, as a student, my older brother arrived for the holidays and asked me how I imagine my God? I answered him: "God is in the heart." And he said: “If I ever come to the conclusion that there is no God, I will put a bullet in my forehead. However, this did not happen. When I was in the 6th grade of the gymnasium, a turning point occurred - in 1894. Then I raged for a year with the fact that there is no God, and I ardently proved it to everyone

              Now we look at the book "Who are you, Iron Felix".
              https://books.google.ru/books?id=J7BgBwAAQBAJ&pg=PT29&lpg=PT29&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
              Here is a page with this passage and link No. 33, about which I wrote:

              And here is the source under this link:

              Here, by the way, we see that under No. 38 it is located - and it is also not RGASPI.F.7.0P.4.D.2.L.2 at all.
              And the text number 38 also does not correspond to the most discussed text fragment, here is where the link number 38 in the text is:

              And here is the link to the RGASPI:
              http://rgaspi.org/funds/spisok_opisei/
              As you can see, fund No. 7 has nothing to do with Dzerzhinsky, it is fund No. 76, so it would be very strange to see links to a fund about Long in this book.

              Have I reasoned enough with my previous post?
              1. Olgovich 25 March 2020 10: 09 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Have I reasoned enough with my previous post?

                No, of course: You give an excerpt where there is NO key phrase:
                From the book under discussion ttp: //loveread.ec/read_book.php? Id = 60514 & p = 7:
                “As a boy, I dreamed of an invisible hat and the destruction of all Muscovites. .... [38]

                where (38) is:
                33

                RGASPI.F.7.Op.4.D.2.L.2.

                34

                In the same place. L. 3-4.

                35

                In the same place. L. 11,15.

                36

                Ibid. L.8.

                37

                Ibid., D.17.L.2.

                38

                Тam.


                Conclusions:
                1.With a link and associated rudeness, you were wrong: there are at least different versions of links

                2. Russophobic phrase, which you "refuted" as "garbage"-exist.

                3. In "RGASPI.F.7.Op.4.D.2.L.2" after 7, apparently, "6" is missing, itself inventory 4 -corresponds to:
                76 4 Biographical documents of Dzerzhinsky 1862 1926 151
                http://rgaspi.info/funds/spisok_opisei/
                as I said.

                For sim hi
                1. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 10: 58 New
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                  No, of course: You give an excerpt where there is NO key phrase:

                  Andrei, of course, I understand everything, but you have a link to a book where you can see for yourself - the words about the invisibility heading are simply on the previous page, but they are in the same passage of text:

                  Russophobic phrase that you "refuted"

                  Well here it is not necessary, I did not say anywhere that such a phrase does not exist.
                  there are at least different versions of links

                  But it doesn’t bother you that they all lead to the same book - and if so, how can there be different links to the same piece of text in one book but from different sources?
                  I pointed out both the link and the photo of the pages, it is very easy to check me.
                  I can’t see anything from your link
                  loveread.ec/read_book.php?id=60514&p=7

                  It is blocked by Roskomnadzor.
                  Therefore, it will not be difficult for you to bring the title of the book and the photo of the pages, as I did?
                  1. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 11: 06 New
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                    In general, nothing is clear))))
                    I downloaded another one, in it at number 38 in general, this is what
                    38. F.E. Dzerzhinsky. Selected works. In 2 t. T.1.1897-1923. 3rd ed.
                    Re-worker. and add. M., 1977. S. 175.

                    belay
                    So I think you can end the argument, there are hardly any right-wingers in this kaleidoscope of online publications))
                    I will look for paper))
                  2. naidas 25 March 2020 23: 47 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    So I think you can end the argument

                    The dispute could not have started. Olgovich is lying. There are no works of Dzerzhinsky (about 20 pieces) that I didn’t find for a couple of hours, what Olgovich writes, but is on Orthodox sites about Dzerzhinsky, and Olgovich himself admitted that nobody took author, but not Dzerzhinsky. And this is a forgery. Moreover, Olgovich falls more than once. About the Sevastopol massacre by the Bolsheviks in 1917, a fiction from St. Petersburg sent a man to find out who of the Bolsheviks cut the officers there, they didn’t find any Bolsheviks. patient of psychiatric hospital Kharko wa Khlebnikov, testified for the propaganda department of pre-drama.
                  3. Foul skeptic 26 March 2020 08: 26 New
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                    The fact that the passage cited by Olgovich is broadcast by "specific" sites does not negate what it actually is in the book dedicated to Dzerzhinsky. To "refute" the book, you need to visit the archive. But there is no point in this, my opinion is that he could easily say such a child - this is a small demand from him, Dzerzhinsky could leave such memories of himself little too, because there is absolutely no sedition in his words. Another "out of molehills."
              2. Olgovich 25 March 2020 11: 37 New
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                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Andrei, of course, I understand everything, but you have a link to a book where you can see for yourself - the words about the invisibility heading are simply on the previous page, but they are in the same passage of text:

                In front of him
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                Well here it is not necessary, I did not say anywhere that such a phrase does not exist.

                And this:
                The vile skeptic (Timur) March 21, 2020 11:41
                +3
                It seems to me that you sat down in a puddle again and confirmed that you draw information from Internet dumps)))
                Who wrote about this particular phrase (it was precisely in its authenticity that Naydas rejected and this was discussed)?

                Those. You were rude only because of .... a missed figure, and not in essence ...?

                Do not make me laugh....
                Quote: A vile skeptic
                But it doesn’t bother you that they all lead to the same book - and if so, how can there be different links to the same piece of text in one book but from different sources?
                I pointed out both the link and the photo of the pages, it is very easy to check me.
                I can’t see anything from your link
                loveread.ec/read_book.php?id=60514&p=7

                It is blocked by Roskomnadzor.
                therefore you will not be bothered give the title of the book and photo pages, how did I do it?

                And what do you think?
                WHAT to prove? WHAT FOR?
                MYSELF, I believe.

                You don’t believe me, but is this really my problem? I’ll survive somehow request

                All the way from there:
                In 1922, he recalled: “As a boy, I dreamed of an invisible hat and the destruction of all Muscovites. Being in the gymnasium before the 6th grade, I was very religious, I was even going to enter the Roman Catholic theological seminary. Mother and one priests dissuaded me from this. Because of religious practice, I even had quarrels with my older brother. Being in 4th grade, I made them pray to God. When, as a student, my older brother arrived for the holidays and asked me how I imagine my God? I answered him: "God is in the heart." And he said: “If I ever come to the conclusion that there is no God, I will put a bullet in my forehead. However, this did not happen. When I was in the 6th grade of the gymnasium, a turning point occurred - in 1894. Then I raged for a year with the fact that there is no God, and I ardently proved to everyone this ”[38].
              3. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 11: 46 New
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                And this:
                The vile skeptic (Timur) March 21, 2020 11:41
                +3
                It seems to me that you sat down in a puddle again and confirmed that you draw information from Internet dumps)))

                And where is even the word that I deny this phrase? Especially in the context of the fact that I myself bring it in fragments and show it on scans.
                I’m talking about the sources of information, did you give a link? - they brought it, but the fact that this link cannot be true (albeit because of a typo) did not bother you at all, even though it is checked elementarily. This is proof that you did not use the book itself, but used "something" on the Internet. And the fact that
                I answered him: "God is in the heart." And he said: “If I ever come to the conclusion that there is no God, I will put a bullet in my forehead. However, this did not happen. When I was in the 6th grade of the gymnasium, a turning point occurred - in 1894. Then I raged for a year with the fact that there is no God, and I ardently proved it to everyone. ” [38].

                this already doesn’t correspond exactly with the book (I brought it to you from 33 scans). Therefore, I ask you to indicate your source
          3. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 11: 21 New
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            I apologize to you for unreasonable attacks (this time))) and admit my mistake
            Actually a typo in the pointer. This led me astray. Now I figured it out, found a paper scan, and not an electronic version, there is actually a fund 7 in the link.
            But I leave my request for scans of your version in force, because number 38 certainly does not refer in paper to even “insulted” f. indication of the archive in No. 7).
            1. Olgovich 25 March 2020 11: 44 New
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              Quote: A vile skeptic
              I apologize to you for unreasonable attacks (this time))) and admit my mistake
              Actually a typo in the pointer. This led me astray.


              It happens that I am also mistaken, that's okay.

              The main thing, I think, to speak RESPECTIVELY - then the conversation is more interesting and easier to agree with the opponent.
              Quote: A vile skeptic
              But I leave my request for scans of your version in force, because number 38 certainly does not refer in paper to even “insulted” f. indication of the archive in No. 7).

              for me it’s a whole mess, honestly, I brought the passage in its entirety (above) hi
            2. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 11: 51 New
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              for me it's a whole mess, honestly

              OK then. Although it’s actually interesting for me to get to the bottom of the point, because with a typo it’s clear that it came from the book itself, but I don’t understand that the numbering went wrong in different sources.
  • naidas 24 March 2020 16: 34 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    Got it, no?

    Olgovich does not look for your link from the garbage dump. Is it weak to show a normal link?

    Russian State Archive of Socio-Political History:
    SEARCH RESULT: Ф.7.0П.4.Д.2.Л.2.
    Sorry, no results were found for your result.
    1. Foul skeptic 25 March 2020 08: 22 New
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      There will not be anything found by such a request. Because in fund 7 there is only inventory number 1, inventory number 4 does not exist.
  • Aviator_ 20 March 2020 08: 16 New
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    Because Felix Edmundovich was the most Russian Pole.

    Quite right, like Stalin was the most Russian Georgian.
    1. Olgovich 20 March 2020 10: 00 New
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      Quote: Aviator_
      That's right, like Stalin was the most Russian Georgian.

      Exactly! yes

      Minus 4 million km2 of territory from Russia in just 18 years (this today's borders of Russia) from 1922 to 1940 - only Belarus grew already in 1924 Mr. already ... three times! They gave Smolyan like a bag of potatoes ....

      The territory of Georgia, meanwhile, has grown due to Russia.

      Just FACTS.
  • Catfish 20 March 2020 08: 44 New
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    Yeah, when it’s profitable - the “Russian Pole”, when it is unprofitable - the “Hyena of Europe”; and four tankers with their dog, to whom do they belong? laughing
    1. Arlen 20 March 2020 08: 58 New
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      It is interesting to know who Dzerzhinsky called the "hyena of Europe", or is this your invention? As far as I know, "Hyena Europe" is called a country called Poland. As for the “four tankers,” these are just movie heroes.
      P.S. if Dzerzhinsky from your words "hyena of Europe", then Rokossovsky then too? Or are you so easy to uphold ward number 6?
      1. Catfish 20 March 2020 09: 29 New
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        And what kind of manner to distort everything, you are not a lawyer, by chance? Indicate the specific line where I called Dzerzhinsky "Hyena of Europe."
        And Dzerzhinsky, in your own words, "was the most Russian Pole," for me it is something new, I do not know such a nationality.
        You don’t need to touch Konstantin Rokossovsky, he is the most talented commander of the last Great War, and the last of the Iron Felix crushed his toes with a hammer during interrogations. So do not.
        I am not a fan of Olgovich, but perhaps I should not insult people just because they have their own opinion that is different from yours. I mean "chamber number six," moreover, Rezun (Suvorov) is an open and endowed authority and is not for everyone.
        1. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 09: 36 New
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          Quote: Sea Cat
          I am not a fan of Olgovich, but perhaps I should not insult people just because they have their own opinion that is different from yours.

          Opinion is not quite mildly say adequate laughing
          If what Arlen wrote to ham Olga, then let her write a complaint. And all business.
          1. Catfish 20 March 2020 09: 47 New
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            Exactly the same thing can be said about your Arlen. Let him write complaints. laughing
          2. Looking for 20 March 2020 17: 05 New
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            if he’s a man. he’ll write a complaint. Indeed, a sign of a real man is a scribble of complaints to moderators.
        2. Gene84 20 March 2020 09: 40 New
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          Quote: Sea Cat
          Rezun

          No word was said about Rezun. What a manner of seeing what is not.
          1. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 09: 45 New
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            Quote: Gene84
            No word was said about Rezun. What a way to see what is not

            Bulk-crunches have specific eyesight, they see what is not laughing
          2. Catfish 20 March 2020 09: 46 New
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            And what by “ward number 6” did you mean the statement of Generalissimo A.V. Suvorov? Excuse me, where and when did he mention this notorious chamber?
            Yes, and hello to all miners. hi Minus - the argument, of course, the most lethal. laughing
            1. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 10: 05 New
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              Quote: Sea Cat
              And what by “ward number 6” did you mean the statement of Generalissimo A.V. Suvorov?

              We decided to pretend not to understand wink laughing
              You just took and cheated on a colleague of Alexander Suvorov. Apparently, Alexander once walked well through you all. Well done Alexander, my respect for him!
              1. Catfish 20 March 2020 10: 12 New
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                I had no idea about any of your colleague Alexander Suvorov, something has divorced a lot lately: there Suvorov - here Suvorov, poor Alexander Vasilievich, I suppose, tossing and turning. But if the words about “ward number six” belong to some local commentator, then it turns out that he himself had cheated on someone. But I did not set myself the goal of overtaking the boor - this is pointless. In addition, I do not have to remember the nickname of everyone who carries nonsense here.
                1. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 10: 15 New
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                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  But if the words about "ward number six" belong to some local commentator, then it turns out that he himself had cheated on someone

                  He was not rude to anyone. There is only one boom - Olgovich. Your sarcasm is not appropriate at all. And yes, nonsense is usually written by people like you. wink
                  1. Catfish 20 March 2020 10: 28 New
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                    Your sarcasm is not appropriate at all.

                    It is appropriate or not appropriate - it is not for you to decide.
                    And yes, nonsense is usually written by people like you.

                    Do you get personal? It is understandable, the usual tactics of outsiders: MINISTRY and the transition to the individual.
                    There are no other arguments! laughing
                    Happy to stay, you are already tired of me, "colleague." hi
                  2. Alex_1973 20 March 2020 10: 36 New
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                    And why are you actually so outraged? You just get personal, without giving any counterarguments, well, do not be surprised that you are being treated the same way.
                    And your minuses are well deserved, accept and minus from me. negative
            2. Diana Ilyina 20 March 2020 10: 15 New
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              Sergei Olegovich, but they do not notice their rudeness in relation to others, sir, not by the status of their nobility, sir. But they see all the others, I, in their opinion, am a rude from a boor and only because I dare to defend my position, which is not similar to theirs.
              To Alexander Suvorov, Arlen, Gene84 and to you my sincere respect! hi love
              1. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 10: 17 New
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                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                My sincere respect to you!

                Thank you so much. Recently, you do not often hear a good word on the site. hi love
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 03 New
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                  [quote] Once upon a time, the site was truly patriotic, [quote]
                  There is simply patriotism as love for one’s homeland, and there is cheers-patriotism when black is called white. So it turns out that everyone has their own patriotism. request
                  By the way, the word "patriotic" has never been in the definition of site policy. request
                  [quote] The Military Review online publication has been operating since 2010, publishing current news and informational and analytical articles of the following focus: military affairs, geopolitics, types of weapons, the course and results of military conflicts, public opinion on a number of social and economic issues .

                  Mass Media Registration Certificate: EL No. FS77-76970, issued October 11.10.2019, XNUMX by the Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technologies and Mass Communications (Roskomnadzor) [/ quote]
                3. Golovan Jack 20 March 2020 12: 17 New
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                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  There is simply patriotism as love for one’s homeland, and there is cheers-patriotism when black is called white. So it turns out that everyone has their own patriotism

                  All is correct. Only at the same time, for some reason (for some reason, we will not point the finger), they unconditionally appoint as tru-patriots only themselves, their beloved ones. And everyone else, whose opinion does not coincide with their (him), is trying to equate to earthworms yes
          3. Catfish 20 March 2020 10: 55 New
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            Diana love , and in this case, what is their position?
            1. Diana Ilyina 20 March 2020 11: 04 New
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              Konstantin love , well, as far as I understand, you have a difference of opinion on statements about the sanity of olgovich, right?
              Of course, I understand everything, everyone’s opinions are of course different, especially on such a controversial story as the history of the revolution and the Civil War. BUT, do not you think that the colleagues with whom you entered into a dispute are right in relation to specifically Olgovich? It is unlikely that his comments can be classified as adequate. To listen to him, under the tsar, milk rivers flowed in the banks of honey, the peasants were all literate, had land, and generally idolized the king-priest and their former masters. In general, there was one sheer magnificence in RI. Well, not nonsense of the patient? What do you think?
              So I sincerely do not understand you in the desire to support Ogovich, is he really not adequate, or do you not think so?
            2. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 15 New
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              Dear diana love , I wrote in my second comment that I’m not a “fan of Olgovich,” just everyone has the right to their own opinion and this is not a reason to defame him. That, in fact, is all about this. smile
            3. Diana Ilyina 20 March 2020 11: 20 New
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              Sea Cat (Constantine)
              Dear Diana love, I wrote in the second comment that I’m not a “fan of Olgovich”,
              I already understood this Konstantin! love
              simply, each person has the right to his own opinion and this is not a reason to defame him.
              Agree! But, you must admit that each user has the right to their opinion on the opinion of another, this is a forum in the end, i.e. platform for the exchange of views. Is not it?
              There are also a lot of people who think and write about me here, but this is not a reason to harbor resentment at all. You can’t put a scarf on each mouth, so I especially never pay attention to negative reviews about myself. I'm not a copper nickel, so that everyone likes me?
            4. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 30 New
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              But, you must admit that each user has the right to their opinion on the opinion of another, this is a forum in the end ...

              Of course I agree, the views are yes, but to write about “House Number Six” is already too much, don’t you?
              And there are no grievances here and cannot be, I knew perfectly well what would begin when I “stood up” for Olgovich, love
          4. Arlen 20 March 2020 11: 29 New
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            Of course you are not a fan of Olgovich, you acted as his lawyer. laughing And as a lawyer got it.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            everyone has the right to their own opinion and this is not a reason to defame him

            It has. But stupidity is not worth writing.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            I’m tired of you already, "colleague."

            Sorry for being rude, but not your colleague to us.
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Do you get personal? It is understandable, the usual tactics of outsiders: MINISTRY and the transition to the individual.
            There are no other arguments!

            I agree with you, you as an outsider turned to the individual. As for the cons, you deserve them.
            P.S. plus or minus on the site reflects agreement, disagreement with the commentator.
          5. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 35 New
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            Of course you are not a fan of Olgovich, you acted as his lawyer. laughing And as a lawyer got it.

            And what did I get there? laughing
            Do not take on too much, the sofa will not stand. laughing
          6. Arlen 20 March 2020 11: 45 New
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            Yes, you are witty!
            I always thought that people have a brain in order to think, but not in your case ...
          7. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 46 New
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            Finally. smile Without rudeness, as without water - and not there, nor courts. Congratulations. love
          8. Arlen 20 March 2020 11: 48 New
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            Rudeness? You do not know what rudeness is.
          9. Catfish 20 March 2020 11: 49 New
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            [quote] You still do not know what rudeness is. smile
            Of course I don’t know, you better know about it.
        3. Sergey Olegovich 20 March 2020 11: 53 New
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          They are not rude to you, they are trying to explain to you that in our spinal cord there are more than some in the head.
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  • Olgovich 21 March 2020 11: 31 New
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    Colleagues with whom you entered into a dispute are specifically right about olgovich?

    Kalleks, in response to the ARGUMENTED comment, with facts and links, answered .... simple rudeness, without single words on the topic.
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    It is unlikely that his comments can be classified as adequate.

    And you determine the adequacy .... you ?! laughing lol
    Who are you? belay lol
    except fervent screams -hit-emptiness. request
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    To listen to him, under the tsar, milk rivers flowed in the banks of honey, the peasants were all literate, had land, and generally idolized the king-priest and their former masters. In general, there was one sheer magnificence in RI.

    There are no acid rivers and never have been.
    BUT! - when comparing you and Russia, in Russia there were more of them: even just EAT, as in 1913, people could only .....after forty years and this is recognized by your own lying Communists themselves (report of the Central Statistical Bureau of 1955.

    The same with clothes, the same with the housing of citizens.

    In schools: in Russia, 4-5 THOUSAND SCHOOLS were built per year, with your ten years until 1927, NONE of them were built — millions of children became literate later

    As for what makes a person FREE, yours to Russia is generally as far away as to the moon in reverse:
    it is the freedom of ELECTIONS, MEETINGS, PARTIES, WORDS, NEWSPAPERS, PARTIES, MOVEMENTS, COURT, humanity of content, etc., etc.

    And one more: never Russia has not suffered SUCH huge losses in territories and people, as with yours.

    These are just FACTS.

    Did it get there? no
  • Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 12: 59 New
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    with your ten years until 1927 not a single school was built

    You do not understand that if the total number of schools in a certain year could be less than the number of schools in some earlier year, does this not mean that new schools were not built?
    In order not to get involved in yet another empty argument about the transition processes in the education system, but to show that you again lied tendentiously, I will cite the following fact, I will not like this, I have others:
    In the Chuvash Autonomous Region on 01.01.1919/192/1 there were 01.05.1920 schools of the 254st grade. On 1/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX schools of the XNUMXst level. Why did you take the national outskirts, and not the RSFSR? And specifically, so that there was no reason to say that it’s already old ones under the guise of new ones.
  • Olgovich 21 March 2020 13: 50 New
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    Quote: A vile skeptic
    You do not understand that if the total number of schools in a certain year could be less than the number of schools in some earlier year, does this not mean that new schools were not built?
    In order not to get involved in yet another empty argument about the transition processes in the education system, but to show that you again lied tendentiously, I will cite the following fact, I will not like this, I have others:
    In the Chuvash Autonomous Region on 01.01.1919/192/1 there were 01.05.1920 schools of the 254st grade. On 1/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX schools of the XNUMXst level. Why did you take the national outskirts, and not the RSFSR? And specifically, so that there was no reason to say that it was the old ones opened under the house of new ones.

    do not carry the next nonsense-number of schools with yours by 1927 only recovered to the data of 1914, after the wild ruin of schools from the thief (this is by 1919 fool )
  • Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 14: 05 New
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    For "not a tanker":
    You write yourself
    number of schools with yours by 1927 just recovered to the data of 1914, after wild devastation schools from the VOR (this is by 1919

    How could quantity be restored if schools were not built to replace the destroyed ones? Probably building schools, huh? You yourself refute your own
    with your ten years until 1927 not a single school was built

    And now didn’t get it?
  • Olgovich 21 March 2020 14: 21 New
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    Quote: A vile skeptic
    How could number to recover if schools were not built to replace the destroyed ones? Probably building schools, huh?

    probably, recovery old, huh? It's a lot cheaper, huh? Or the discovery of standing whole old, but without teachers, broken, driven out by yours, eh?

    Got it, no? no
  • Foul skeptic 21 March 2020 14: 32 New
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    And the restoration of the educational process in the old, including of course. I never thought otherwise (maybe because I'm sane)
    How predictable are you:
    Or the discovery of standing whole old, but without teachers, broken, driven out by yours, eh?

    And of course, passions should be thrown about the slain and expelled teachers, where without it. I specifically wrote immediately above:
    Why did you take the national outskirts, and not the RSFSR? And specifically, so that there was no reason to say that it’s already old ones under the guise of new ones.

    In short, I don’t see the point in wasting time (especially after rudeness). Saturday after all. I’ll go play with my grandchildren.
  • fuxila 21 March 2020 19: 22 New
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    Diana, Olgovich is inadequate for you, but do you really think that here, in VO, everyone considers you adequate? You ascribe to him that he believes that under the tsar, milk rivers flowed in the banks of honey ... I didn’t read this from him, maybe I missed something ... But you can also be attributed to you that you are crucifying for what Communists flowed milk rivers into the jelly banks, but only the people somehow didn’t notice it ... You are probably from the golden Soviet youth, I met such people and they really lived well: VCRs, foreign clothes ... Unlike me, who grew up in a forgotten God. the village in the Far East really was happy for you, and I started working as a railway engineer back in school (then it was possible for 120 rubles a month), because we had 4 children in the family, and my mother and father did not get that much ... I, so even more mom, head. railroad pharmacy ...
  • naidas 26 March 2020 00: 05 New
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    Quote: fuxila
    Olgovich is inadequate for you

    For me, Olgovich who calls (an article about the Izhevsk rebellion) to create a soldier's veteran party, as in Germany, is inadequate.
    The Bolsheviks are accusing the Bolsheviks of the Sevastopol massacre, the Bolsheviks tried to find the Bolsheviks in Sevastopol and could not be found; they had to find a report on the mission.
    accuses the Kharkov Cheka, it turned out the basis of the testimony of a patient of the Kharkov mental hospital Khlebnikov for the propaganda department.
    Lenin did not prove the German spy court in August-September 1917. Starikov generally writes from Lenin's letters that the Germans and allies helped with the money, and the Provisional paid for the tickets.
    etc.
    This article is again a non-existent source.
    Moreover, catching on alterations of texts from sources.
  • naidas 20 March 2020 16: 13 New
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    Quote: Sea Cat
    And Dzerzhinsky, in your own words, "was the most Russian Pole," for me it is something new, I do not know such a nationality.



    -You're wrong. This one of mine is a Pole, a German. There are two generals - they are Georgians. This courtier is a Tatar, here is a Finn, and there is a baptized Jew.

    “Then where are the Russians?” Asked Custine.

    —But all together they are Russians.
  • Krasnodar 20 March 2020 09: 14 New
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    Quote: Sea Cat
    Yeah, when it’s profitable - the “Russian Pole”, when it is unprofitable - the “Hyena of Europe”; and four tankers with their dog, to whom do they belong? laughing

    As far as I remember - one Georgian, a dog - German. )))
    1. Catfish 20 March 2020 09: 33 New
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      They forgot about the three Poles. laughing
      1. Krasnodar 20 March 2020 09: 46 New
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        Here! Only 60% of the crew laughing
        1. Catfish 20 March 2020 09: 48 New
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          Yes, and in the Russian tank. laughing
          1. Looking for 20 March 2020 17: 16 New
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            even in the 80s you would have been hit with a die for using the expression "Russian" instead of "Soviet"
            1. Catfish 20 March 2020 18: 21 New
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              Are you based on personal experience and looking at yourself in the mirror?
          2. Overlock 20 March 2020 22: 27 New
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            Quote: Sea Cat
            Yes, and in the Russian tank.

            Soviet tank request
  • podymych 20 March 2020 12: 20 New
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    Well, something like this -
    https://topwar.ru/163371-russkij-s-poljakom-bratja-navek.html
  • knn54 20 March 2020 11: 34 New
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    As the "chief political officer" (undeservedly slandered) of the Red Army, Lev Mehlis, I am not a Jew, I am a Bolshevik.
  • rich 20 March 2020 18: 15 New
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    In fact, it is difficult to call Dzerzhinsky, as well as Rokossovsky Poles.

    But to call Konstantin Konstantinovich a Pole - This is a bust. K.K. Rokossovsky, as you know, was the son of a steam locomotive driver of the Russified Pole (father is a Pole, mother is Russian) and a teacher of Russian language and literature (father and mother are Russian). A person with Polish roots will be more correct.
    1. Overlock 20 March 2020 22: 28 New
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      Quote: Rich
      . It will be more correct - a man with Polish roots

      this did not prevent him from being Minister of Defense of Poland
  • Doliva63 21 March 2020 18: 29 New
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    Quote: Arlen
    Quote: Amateur
    And about the most Soviet of all the Poles of the “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky why is there nothing?

    Because Felix Edmundovich was the most Russian Pole. In fact, it is difficult to call Dzerzhinsky, as well as Rokossovsky Poles. Both representatives of the Polish people are more Russian. And both Poles have done a lot for the Russian people.

    In fact, there were a lot of Poles who took part both in the fate of the empire and the Union. Among them, my great-great-grandfather, the chief of the General Staff of the Russian Army, in our opinion, the Polish nobleman of the coat of arms of Doliv, is buried in St. Petersburg, in the Alexander Nevsky Lavra. Another great-grandfather raised the Demidov factories in the Urals, buried there. And why didn’t they remember Menzhinsky? What about Levanevsky? Poles from all who territorially entered the empire were the most useful. Well, of course, not counting the Russians. And the burst of Jewish activity at that time I attribute to the infusion of money by the West to the collapse of the empire. When it did not become profitable, they pretty much decreased.
  • Doctor 20 March 2020 06: 34 New
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    And about the most Soviet of all the Poles of the “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky why is there nothing?

    And he, like Rokossovsky and thousands of other Poles, does not fit into the anti-Polish hysteria on this site.
  • iouris 20 March 2020 12: 05 New
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    Firstly, many, if not all, were Russian citizens, i.e. Russian Catholic religion. Secondly, the Bolsheviks were internationalists, they participated in the "world revolution", the main condition of which (theoretically) was the socialist revolution in Germany. Almost the Bolsheviks after the defeat of the revolutions in Germany and Hungary, the failure of the attack on Warsaw, Lenin theoretically substantiated the possibility and necessity of building socialism in a single Russia.
  • podymych 20 March 2020 12: 25 New
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    There will also be iron Felix, and Unshlikht with Menzhinsky
    1. Reptiloid 21 March 2020 12: 47 New
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      It would be interesting to find out about Dzevaltovsky how it was there and why the "" disappointment "".
  • Dart2027 20 March 2020 06: 27 New
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    besides, do not forget that all the revolutionary parties have relied on nationals in their political struggle


    What their current heirs prefer not to remember, and when they are reminded, they are greatly offended.
  • Plantagenet 20 March 2020 07: 20 New
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    “He said that sooner or later Russia will lose Poland, that it is unlikely to keep Finland and will never get Constantinople. He said that all other conquests of the tsars were not worth a penny and that even Russia itself would sooner or later go to hell through the fault of some crazy despot. He said that the multimillion-dollar mass of ignorant Russian peoples could be a formidable danger to the whole world and that Europe would be either republican or Cossack. ”

    Mark Aleksandrovich Aldanov “HOLY ELENA, LITTLE ISLAND”
  • Aviator_ 20 March 2020 08: 20 New
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    One should only be surprised that Poland did not really flare up in 1848-49, when the well-known ghost "wandered through Europe." Most likely, in Warsaw and Lodz, without receiving any support from Austrian Krakow and the German Poznan and Danzig, they were simply afraid that the Nikolaev army would go through Russian Poland in the same rink as it had in rebellious Hungary.

    Perhaps the sponsors simply did not find funds for the Poles, all went to the Magyars.
  • Looking for 20 March 2020 17: 18 New
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    Quote: Arzt
    does not fit into anti-Polish hysteria on this site.

    By the way. Far not unreasonable.
  • parusnik 20 March 2020 19: 47 New
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    the Nikolaev army will pass on Russian Poland in the same skating rink as on rebellious Hungary
    ..... Well, did the Russian army go like a skating rink on rebellious Hungary, and what political dividends did it bring to Russia? .. Armed “neutrality” during the Crimean War? Russia's “Friendship” in the Triple Alliance? ... Well, yes, Well, yes ... but the revolutionary hydra in the person of Hungary, its head was chopped off ... By the way, during the period of the Hungarian revolution, the Austrian empire was on the verge of collapse ...
    1. Reptiloid 21 March 2020 13: 00 New
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      It is interesting that the Austro-Hungarian monarch considered himself higher in status than the Tsar of RI. Therefore, there were no dividends; on the contrary, he was offended by this support. What was said in the Austrian modern historical series.
      And this is a very instructive example for all times ---- RI liberated Europe from Napoleon, but did not gain respect, recognition, gratitude, and respect from European countries from this.
      Quote: parusnik
      the Nikolaev army will pass on Russian Poland in the same skating rink as on rebellious Hungary
      ..... Well, did the Russian army go like a skating rink on rebellious Hungary, and what political dividends did it bring to Russia? .. Armed “neutrality” during the Crimean War? Russia's “Friendship” in the Triple Alliance? ... Well, yes, Well, yes ... but the revolutionary hydra in the person of Hungary, its head was chopped off ... By the way, during the period of the Hungarian revolution, the Austrian empire was on the verge of collapse ...

      Good morning, Alex hi
      1. parusnik 21 March 2020 16: 35 New
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        Good afternoon, Dmitry! hi
      2. fuxila 21 March 2020 18: 40 New
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        Well, yes, what do you actually want? And what did the USSR gain in gratitude? It is not and never will be, the Soviet army liberated half of Europe, and where is this gratitude? And what, in your opinion, does this mean that Stalin did not learn the lessons of history?
        Just Nicholas I acted on the basis of preserving the Christian monarchies in Europe, within the framework of the Holy Union, and Stalin from the interests of the socialist system. But just as the "saved" Europeans spat on us, they will not care. Our fate is such ...
        1. Reptiloid 21 March 2020 19: 25 New
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          All the actions of Joseph Vissarionovich in all years are permeated with realism and understanding of those countries. He never idealized them ...
          And where am I writing about Stalin? What are you making up?
          1. fuxila 21 March 2020 19: 32 New
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            Who are you arguing with and what? I answered you this:
            And this is a very instructive example for all times ---- RI liberated Europe from Napoleon, but did not gain respect, recognition, gratitude, and respect from European countries from this.

            I answer again - I haven’t and will not get it at any time, even with the kings, even with the general secretaries ...
  • Prisoner 20 March 2020 23: 58 New
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    Better Felix Edmundovich no one. The rest in the furnace!
    1. fuxila 21 March 2020 18: 47 New
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      You Ayrat better go to the site ukronatsikov and instead of Felix Edmundovich Stepan Andreevich recall. There, your speeches about “into the furnace” of those who disagree with “cheers” will be accepted there, especially their curator named Arsen.
  • fuxila 21 March 2020 19: 45 New
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    To the author - Alexey, the Polish revolutionary was most likely called Martin Kasprzak, not Kasprzak, because the combination of the Latin letters "rz" means the letter "z" in Polish. For example, the word "sea" among the Poles is "morze" (mozhe). Although the Kasprzhak version is also allowed in the Russian language (remember Mr. Yastrzhembsky from the Yeltsin administration?).
  • voyaka uh 21 March 2020 23: 28 New
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    In short:
    The Poles who are for Russia are good.
    Poles who are for Poland are bad.
    Simple and clear. smile
  • captain 12 June 2020 09: 15 New
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    And that just did not do representatives of various nationalities and the state, for the collapse and destruction of Russia. And they gave money, and riots organized, and bribed officials, and arranged a harassment of Russia, and called on Europe to unite in the fight against the horde from the East (Marx) ...