Lithium batteries: a long journey into the submarine fleet


The commissioning of the submarine SS 511 Oryu


On March 5, 2020, in the Japanese city of Kobe, the 11th submarine of the Soryu series was launched. The boat will be part of the naval forces of Japan under the designation SS 511 Oryu. The new Japanese diesel-electric submarine became the first combat submarine in the world to receive lithium-ion batteries, it was also the first such submarine in its series.

According to experts, through the use of new types of batteries that have long been prescribed in smartphones, the Japanese will be able to abandon the use of submarines not only traditional lead-acid batteries, but also non-volatile Stirling engines. It is very curious and iconic for underwater fleet event, since even the non-volatile power plants themselves at one time became a real breakthrough for diesel boats, eliminating the need for submarines to often rise to the surface while sailing. By the way, Russia does not have a single serial submarine equipped with an air-independent power plant.

Launched a new Japanese submarine with lithium-ion batteries has become the 11th boat in the series. In addition, the Japanese fleet has 11 Oyashio-type submarines (including two training boats), which are also difficult to attribute to old models, since the boats were designed in the 1990s, and the last of them was transferred to the fleet in 2008 year. It is already known that in the near future the Japanese fleet will receive another Soryu project submarine (SS 512 boat) with lithium-ion batteries, after which in Japan they will proceed to build a new project submarine, known as 29SS (the first SS 513 boat). In total, the Japanese fleet now has 22 submarines, the oldest of which went into operation in 1998.

First lithium-ion submarine


The ceremony of putting into operation the Naval Self-Defense Forces of Japan of the first combat submarine with SS 511 Oryu lithium-ion batteries was held in Kobe on March 5, 2020. The ceremony was held at Kobe Shipyard & Machinery Works, owned by a large corporation Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which in Japan covers a huge number of industrial areas. The new boat was already the 11th in a series of Soryu-type boats, and a total of 12 such ships will be built, of which the last two with lithium-ion batteries. The construction of the SS 511 Oryu boat began in March 2015, the boat was launched on October 4, 2018.


The commissioning of the submarine SS 511 Oryu

It is known that the construction of the 11th boat cost Japanese taxpayers an amount in excess of the cost of any of the ten built boats of the same project. It is reported that the cost of building the SS 511 submarine amounted to 64,4 billion yen (approximately 566 million dollars, according to other sources, the boat cost even more - 66 billion yen). In any case, this is a quarter more than the tenth submarine of the SS 510 Shoryu series (51,7 billion yen or $ 454 million). Almost the entire difference in cost between the tenth and eleventh boats of the series is accounted for by the cost of new lithium-ion batteries, as well as the alteration of the entire accompanying electrical system of the submarine and the change of design.

The twelfth of the planned boats of the Soryu series is to enter the fleet in 2021. The SS-512 boat has already been launched, this happened in November last year. Both boats with lithium-ion batteries in the coming years will become a real testing ground for testing the batteries and their operation in real operating conditions, including in conditions close to combat. The test results are very important, as they will allow the Japanese admirals to adjust the programs for the construction and development of the submarine fleet, as well as to develop the design of the next-generation strike submarines.

SS 511 Oryu challenges traditional submarines


It is worth noting that the Japanese fleet has long been hatched plans for the use of lithium-ion batteries in submarines. The appearance of the SS 511 Oryu was the culmination of research and development, which continued for several decades. It is known that the first work in this direction by Japanese designers began back in 1962, and the first lithium-ion battery, designed to be placed on board the submarine, was ready in 1974.

Despite these successes, the first batteries were far from ideal, did not meet the specified requirements for operation, and did not suit the military in many respects. At the same time, such batteries were very expensive for a long time. This was superimposed on a higher danger of such batteries, which were prone to spontaneous combustion and explosions, which on board the submarine is fraught with a real catastrophe. The associated risks and high price, coupled with the still not sufficiently “mature” technology, forced the Japanese admirals to turn their attention to air-independent power plants (VNEU). In 1986, it was decided to develop and build submarines with the VNEU Stirling system, focusing on successful Swedish experience.


The last serial submarine such as Soryu, will enter the fleet in 2021

Yet the day of lithium-ion batteries aboard the submarines has arrived. New technologies can significantly change the entire submarine fleet. Many experts already attribute such diesel-electric boats to fifth generation submarines. At the same time, in order to switch to the use of new rechargeable batteries, Japanese designers had to substantially redesign the Soryu-type boat project. First of all, new rechargeable batteries required a redesign of the project to maintain stability and ballasting of boats, since the lead-acid batteries installed on the first 10 submarines of the series are significantly heavier than lithium-ion ones. Moreover, part of the weight “left” completely from the new submarines due to the dismantling of Stirling engines.

During the work, the engineers had to completely revise the entire power system on board the SS 511 Oryu. Also on the submarine installed more powerful diesel generators designed to recharge batteries. In addition, the designers had to tackle snorkel remodeling, this is necessary to increase the volume of air supply and at the same time exhaust exhaust, since the charging speed of lithium-ion batteries is much higher than standard lead-acid ones.

Already today, lithium-ion batteries provide submarines with a duration of underwater running comparable to boats using VNEU. And in the future, the technical characteristics of such boats will only grow. At the same time, the high capacity of the batteries allows submarines to move under water for a long time at high speed - about 20 knots. High duration of underwater travel at high speed is a very important indicator for submarines. This can help when attacking a surface target and when evading enemy attacks. The faster the boat leaves the danger area, the better.

At the same time, unlike submarines equipped with VNEU, the new submarine is able to constantly replenish the energy reserve in lithium-ion batteries, using battery recharging using a device to operate the engine under the water of the RPD. Also, the advantages of lithium-ion batteries include a longer service life. Such batteries do not require maintenance, and the electrical systems built with their help are easier to manage and design. Also, lithium-ion batteries differ from lead-acid batteries in a shorter charging time due to the greater current strength, which is very important for divers.


The commissioning of the submarine SS 511 Oryu

Submarine capabilities of the Soryu type


Diesel-electric submarines of the Soryu type are strike submarines of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces. These boats are considered one of the most modern and best in the world, they already constitute the backbone of the submarine forces of the Japanese fleet. The new Japanese boats are quite large, in terms of displacement they surpass all serial Russian diesel-electric submarines of projects 677 Lada, 636 Varshavyanka and 877 Halibut. Boats of the Soryu type are considered quite quiet, and they can argue with modern atomic submarines in terms of duration of sailing underwater.

Soryu-type submarines with a standard surface displacement of 2900 tons and underwater - 4200 tons are being built in Japan since 2005 (the first boat of the series was laid). The length of the Soryu submarines is 84 meters, the width is 9,1 meters, and the average draft is 8,5 meters. The crew of the boat consists of 65 submariners (including 9 officers).

The first ten diesel-electric submarines built under this project were distinguished by a combined power plant consisting of two Kawasaki 12V25 / 25SB diesel-electric units with a capacity of 3900 hp each and four Kawasaki Kockums V4-275R Stirling engines developing a maximum power of 8000 l .c (underwater course). The power plant of the ship operates on one propeller shaft. The maximum surface speed of the boat is 13 knots (approximately 24 km / h), the maximum speed of underwater speed is 20 knots (approximately 37 km / h).


Soryu submarine

The working depth of the submersibles of the Soryu type is 275-300 meters. Autonomy of swimming - up to 45 days. For boats of this project equipped with a non-volatile power plant, the cruising range is estimated at 6100 nautical miles (approximately 11 km) at a speed of 300 knots (approximately 6,5 km / h). It is reported that new submarines receiving lithium-ion batteries will be able to stay in the submerged position even longer, in fact, their capabilities will be limited only by the supply of provisions and fresh water on board.

The main armament of Soryu-type boats is anti-ship torpedoes and missiles. The submarine has six 533-mm torpedo tubes HU-606. The ammunition of the boat can consist of 30 torpedoes "Type 89". Modern torpedoes develop a maximum speed of 55 knots (102 km / h), at which speed a torpedo can go under water for 39 km. Also, these torpedo tubes can be used to launch UGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Modern versions of such missiles can hit targets at a distance of up to 280 kilometers.
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  1. Same lech 17 March 2020 06: 27 New
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    And how will the Chinese respond to the Japanese militarists?
    1. Mavrikiy 17 March 2020 06: 43 New
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      Quote: The same Lech
      And how will the Chinese respond to the Japanese militarists?

      Easy. Pakistan will buy one from the militarists. And China will stamp hundreds of pieces. repeat
      1. Insurgent 17 March 2020 07: 05 New
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        But in fact, under the common name "lithium-ion battery", a whole family of various chemical elements of the current is hidden. As for the main operational indicators of energy charge / return, price, as well as a very important h-ki - operational safety (battery explosion cases).

        TYPES OF MODERN LITHIUM BATTERY BATTERIES
        (Abbreviated. Fully:
        https://elwo.ru/publ/spravochniki/tipy_sovremennykh_litievykh_akkumuljatornykh_batarej/2-1-0-915 )

        Li-ion batteries Lithium-ion batteries are classic rechargeable batteries in which lithium ions move from the negative electrode to the positive electrode during discharge and back when charging. Lithium-ion batteries are widely used in consumer electronics. They are one of the most popular types of rechargeable batteries for portable electronics, with one of the best energy density, lack of memory effect and slow charge loss when not in use (low self-discharge). This series covers cylindrical and prismatic battery sizes. Li-ion has the highest power density among any old type of battery. Its very light weight and long life cycle makes it an ideal product for many decisions.

        LTO batteries Lithium titanate (lithium titanate) is a relatively new class of lithium-ion batteries - (read more here). It is characterized by a very long life cycle, which is measured in thousands of cycles. Lead lithium titanate is also very safe and comparable in this regard with iron phosphate. The energy density is lower than that of other lithium-ion current sources and its rated voltage is 2.4 V. This technology is characterized by very fast charging, low internal resistance, very high life cycle and excellent endurance (also safety). LTO found its application mainly in electric vehicles and watches. Recently, it begins to find application in mobile medical devices, due to its high security. One of the features of the technology is that nanocrystals are used on the anode instead of carbon, which provides a much more effective surface area. Unfortunately, this battery has lower voltages than other types of lithium batteries.


        Li-Polymer batteries A lithium polymer has a higher energy density in terms of weight than lithium-ion batteries. In very thin cells (up to 5 mm), the lithium polymer provides a high bulk energy density. Excellent stability in overvoltage and high temperatures. This series of batteries can be produced in the range from 30 to 23000 mA / h, prismatic and cylindrical cases. Lithium-polymer batteries have several advantages: a higher energy density by volume, flexibility in cell sizes and a wider margin of safety, with excellent voltage stability even at high temperatures. Main applications: portable players, Bluetooth, wireless devices, PDAs and digital cameras, electric bikes, GPS navigators, laptops, e-books.

        LiFePO4 batteries well suited for high discharge currents, such as military equipment, power tools, electric bicycles, mobile computers, UPSs and solar power systems. As a new anode material for lithium-ion batteries, lifepo4 was first introduced in 1997 and has been continuously improved to date. It attracted the attention of experts due to its reliable safety, durability, low environmental impact during disposal, and convenient charge-discharge characteristics. Many experts claim that lifepo4 batteries are by far the best option for self-powered electronics.

        Li-SO2 batteries Lithium sulfur dioxide (Li and SO2 battery) - These batteries have a high energy density and good discharge resistance at high power. Such elements are mainly used in the military, meteorology and astronautics.

        Li-MnO2 batteries Lithium manganese dioxide (Li-MnO2 battery) - These batteries have a lightweight lithium metal anode and a solid cathode of manganese dioxide immersed in a non-aggressive, non-toxic organic electrolyte. This type of battery complies with EU RoHS and is characterized by high capacity, high allowable discharge and long service life. Li-MnO2 is widely used in backup power supplies, emergency beacons, fire alarms, electronic access control systems, digital cameras, and medical equipment.

        Li-SOCL2 batteries Lithium thionyl chloride (lithium-SOCl2) batteries have a lightweight lithium metal anode and a liquid cathode containing a porous carbon current collector filled with thionyl chloride (SOCl2). The Li-SOCL2 battery is ideal for automotive devices, medical equipment, as well as military and aerospace devices.
        1. astepanov 19 March 2020 15: 02 New
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          Horses mixed up in a heap, people ... In the preamble, you Insurgent write that
          Quote: Insurgent
          Under the common name "lithium-ion battery", a whole family of various chemical elements of the current is hidden.

          But neither IT with sulfur dioxide, nor thionyl chloride, nor products with MnO2 have any relation to lithium-ion batteries, moreover, they are not batteries at all. Well, the source of the penniless you quote is not worth it, because it is both illiterate and ugly in terms of translation.
    2. Aleksandr1971 17 March 2020 07: 07 New
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      The more important question is how Russia will answer this ..... It seems that unfortunately nothing.
      Russia's plans are to continue the construction of 5 pieces of Varshavyanka.
      1. Nemchinov Vl 17 March 2020 23: 41 New
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        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        The more important question is how Russia will answer this ..... It seems that unfortunately nothing.
        Russia's plans are to continue the construction of 5 pieces of Varshavyanka.
        ... and the question on the P-750B is already completely closed ?! ...
        1. Aleksandr1971 19 March 2020 04: 55 New
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          Good thing you asked. This question is not closed, and thank God. But only this project has not been completed. And from the completion of the project to the start of production in our country, a lot of time passes. For example, the Yasen nuclear submarine project dates back to 1977, and the fleet was handed over to the fleet only in 2014, that is, 37 years later. How many years will pass before the transfer of P-750B project boats to the Navy? And during this time, what will we patch holes with? - boats "Varshavyanka", the project of which was also created in the 70s.
          1. Nemchinov Vl 20 March 2020 10: 16 New
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            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            Good thing you asked.
            in my understanding, curiosity is not a vice ...
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            For example, the Yasen nuclear submarine project dates back to 1977, and the fleet was handed over to the fleet only in 2014, that is, after 37 years.
            I, as an amateur, have a hope that (compared with the eighties, in the era of the 2020s) the level of technological progress (I still hope that there is no regression) allows the state (with proper mobilization of resources, to achieve the intended goals) go that way in half the time. And I want to believe that there is a difference in the development of nuclear power plants (in the 80s ... !!) and the closed-loop engine (in the 2020s .. !!).
            Quote: Aleksandr1971
            And during this time, what will we patch holes with? - boats "Varshavyanka"
            Well, I would also like to believe in Husky / Likes ... Especially, unless they are as bulky (and therefore super expensive) as "Ash-M". I would like to believe that it will be possible to give birth to the ICAPL project, in the form of a kind of an average kind, between the RTMK-Condor-Lira projects (well, that is, in its VI, but in the direction of minimization ...), taking the best that was , from each of these projects. With a newer and more compact, modern reactor, HAC, etc.
    3. Bar1 17 March 2020 08: 58 New
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      Russia has developed a nickel-63 nuclear battery that lasts 50 years


      https://habr.com/ru/news/t/391187/

      as usual in Russia, they invented the next, more perfect source of current, an isotope battery. It will be better than even lithium batteries. This message passed a long time ago at 17, but something doesn’t work.
      1. astepanov 19 March 2020 15: 04 New
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        Quote: Bar1
        Russia has developed a nickel-63 nuclear battery that lasts 50 years

        Yes, with a specific power in the region of 1 μW / kg. A battery weighing a ton will produce as much as 1 W of power.
        Do not make people laugh.
    4. Bad_gr 17 March 2020 17: 09 New
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      .... new submarines receiving lithium-ion batteries will be able to stay submerged for even longer, in fact, their capabilities will be limited only by the supply of provisions and fresh water on board.
      It sounds beautiful, of course, but I don’t believe it in such a way that a battery-powered submarine would float under water for months. It is only atomic.
      1. Andrey.AN 18 March 2020 14: 45 New
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        If these are boats of the coastal zone, it’s not enough to go on patrol a thousand kilometers of underwater passage, or leave for three hundred in the area of ​​operation, sit in secret for a week, and back? The nuclear shores go to distant shores, but even diesel ones can, although there are few of them for the defense of our borders, the main thing is that they have the best weapons. Of course, with lithium-ion is better, protection by packaging with a chemical absorber of these batteries is not a problem, it must be done.
        1. Bad_gr 18 March 2020 19: 35 New
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          Quote: Andrey.AN
          If these are boats of the coastal zone, it’s not enough to go on guard a thousand kilometers of underwater passage, or to leave for three hundred in the area of ​​operation, to sit in secret for a week,

          I’m not talking about the tasks of this submarine, I don’t understand why in the article its capabilities are equated with the capabilities of a nuclear submarine:
          ... will be able to stay in an underwater position for even longer, in fact, their capabilities will be limited only by the supply of provisions and fresh water on board.
          After all, the batteries themselves do not generate electricity, so to take it from them, you need to load this electricity with a generator there, and a diesel generator can only be started when the submarine emerges. This submarine has more powerful generators, and more capacious batteries, but the boat, although good as it was diesel, has stayed with it and there is no way to equate its capabilities with the atomic one.
  2. Peter is not the first 17 March 2020 06: 27 New
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    A rival to whom we can not yet offer a worthy alternative, either by technology or by quantity in the Far East. At this theater, we are on the defensive.
    1. Same lech 17 March 2020 06: 49 New
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      The rival to whom we can not yet offer a worthy alternative
      This rival wants to chop off our Kuril Islands and annoy the Chinese ... so keep our eyes open.
    2. Narak-zempo 17 March 2020 09: 05 New
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      Quote: Peter is not the first
      A rival to whom we can not yet offer a worthy alternative, either by technology or by quantity in the Far East. At this theater, we are on the defensive.

      In your opinion, drones with a compact nuclear power plant and almost unlimited (compared to these crafts on mobile phone batteries) autonomy is an unworthy alternative?
      1. timokhin-aa 18 March 2020 20: 42 New
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        And how many drones do we have?
        1. Narak-zempo 19 March 2020 00: 20 New
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          Quote: timokhin-aa
          And how many drones do we have?

          "He who gives the right answer will receive ten years."

          "Against the black power of the enemy
          Day and night we are on guard
          That's all you need to know about us.
          Permitted."

          Something like this. As much as you need, and how many exactly - state secrets.
          1. timokhin-aa 19 March 2020 08: 08 New
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            Zero.
            They are not and are not expected in the foreseeable historical perspective.
            1. Narak-zempo 19 March 2020 20: 13 New
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              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Zero.
              They are not and are not expected in the foreseeable historical perspective.

              They are in the information space - this is more than enough. And there we will build them as much as necessary.
              The new war will be a hybrid war, that is, largely informational. It can be said that, as World War II was a “war of motors”, the next would be a “war of phantoms.” And in this war, a fleet of non-existent ships may well defeat the real fleet. A kind of elevation of the fleet-in-being concept to the level of a pure idea.
              1. timokhin-aa 19 March 2020 21: 34 New
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                This is nonsense. There is intelligence, which is able to separate mirages from reality. And any opponent will be repelled from our real capabilities at the current time.
    3. tima_ga 19 March 2020 22: 21 New
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      He is an opponent, but he understands the consequences of large-scale aggression on his part. Yes, our capabilities in the Far East are rather modest in comparison with those of the Japanese army and defense. But one cannot pinch a nuclear power into a corner and expect that you won’t get concrete stars in the 1945 style ... Yes, of course, we would like for us to implement advanced technologies, but that is what is and is now our best and most powerful shield - nuclear.
  3. Mavrikiy 17 March 2020 06: 41 New
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    The new Japanese diesel-electric submarine became the first combat submarine in the world to receive lithium-ion batteries.
    I Wan, I want the same! repeat (Vysotsky)
  4. thinker 17 March 2020 06: 43 New
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    On March 5, 2020, the 11th submarine of the Soryu series was launched in the Japanese city of Kobe ... The solemn ceremony of putting into operation the Naval Self-Defense Forces of Japan, the first combat submarine with SS 511 Oryu lithium-ion batteries, was held in Kobe March 5, 2020.
    The beginning of the article correct request
    1. tlauicol 17 March 2020 06: 56 New
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      Everything is correct: I rub the 1st in the series, the 11th
  5. rocket757 17 March 2020 07: 03 New
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    Japan is not weak and ...
    In general, everything that is necessary should be brought in this direction !!!
  6. Livonetc 17 March 2020 07: 06 New
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    Never a specialist in battery technology.
    However, are they the lithium-ion batteries that explode and burn in phones, laptops, electric scooters, etc., etc.
    You can certainly say that these are Japanese!
    They are superengineers and technologists.
    But is it not the people who built the nuclear power plant in the seismically dangerous zone, in which tsunamis are almost a common occurrence.
    Lithium-ion technology is inherently dangerous.
    It is stabilized only by the use of multiple degrees of protection and rigorous implementation of the operating mode.
    And in case of extraordinary events, for example, serious physical damage or even an unauthorized discharge too fast, a fire and explosion occur.
    Good luck to Japanese submariners.
    1. BREAKTHROUGH READY 17 March 2020 07: 22 New
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      However, aren't they the lithium-ion batteries that explode and burn in phones, laptops, electric scooters
      and a lot of your batteries exploded? In the world, tens of billions of devices with lithium-ion batteries are now in operation, they are put just everywhere, from toothbrushes to children's toys.
      But is it not the people who built the nuclear power plant in the seismically dangerous zone, in which tsunamis are almost a common occurrence.
      a representative of the people who staged the Chernobyl disaster trying to show something to the Japanese, seriously?
      Lithium-ion technology is inherently dangerous.
      it’s dangerous to live, we all die
      1. Livonetc 17 March 2020 07: 34 New
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        Fukustma occurred much later.
        I won’t give statistics of problems, however, they happen quite often and this has been recorded many times in the form of a fixation.
        Up to fires on board aircraft.
        1. BREAKTHROUGH READY 17 March 2020 07: 39 New
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          So Fukushima did not happen out of the blue. Or do you think that since Japan has no oil in its seismic activity zone, then people should not live there with electricity?
          The statistics of problems are simply insignificant, otherwise lithium-ion batteries would have been banned for a long time or at least limited their use. And now they are shoved even into devices with the most extreme operating conditions.
          1. Livonetc 17 March 2020 07: 52 New
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            To build a nuclear power plant directly on the ocean in the zone of probable tsunami damage is at least irrational.
            So the disaster to put it mildly out of the blue.
        2. donavi49 17 March 2020 09: 18 New
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          Everyone in the world carries such a battery in their pocket. Uses her more powerful at home or at work. Some drive electric cars or hybrids on the roads.

          A significant part of the batteries are cheap. Most are operated carelessly, without following the rules.

          Moreover, there are only a few cases. Except for problems when the manufacturer is to blame (marriage, incorrect calculation of the removed / supplied power, leading to static overheating, etc.). If the accident rate were real, then the coronovirus reports would overshadow the eroded priests from the new Xiaomi, or burnt out offices, flashing a torch for a dozen cars a day well, etc.
          1. Sergey S. 17 March 2020 18: 33 New
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            Quote: donavi49
            If the accident rate were real, then the coronovirus reports would overshadow the eroded priests from the new Xiaomi, or burnt out offices, flashing a torch for a dozen cars a day well, etc.

            With all due respect to you, there are problems with these "batteries".
            1. donavi49 17 March 2020 20: 18 New
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              Question in percent. Sometimes there really are problems. But they are grouped into 3 types:
              - marriage and low-quality elements.
              - Incorrect operating or storage conditions.
              - overloading the battery to discharge or charge.

              All these basic factors are excluded on this boat. In the end, there really is a chance to get problems. However he much lower than other risks in everyday operation of submarines.

              An Indian submarine, for example, in a classic, exploded in gas, due to problems with ventilation of the battery compartment. And emergency situations like that were the whole history of diesel-electric submarines. AND? Measures are considered sufficient, although small flights are quite regular.
      2. ser56 17 March 2020 12: 39 New
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        Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
        representative of the people who organized the Chernobyl disaster

        Chernobyl in Ukraine ... request
        1. BREAKTHROUGH READY 17 March 2020 12: 44 New
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          Now in Ukraine, and was in the USSR, the Soviet people arranged the Chernobyl disaster.
          1. IGOR GORDEEV 17 March 2020 14: 03 New
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            Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
            Now in Ukraine, and was in the USSR, the Soviet people arranged the Chernobyl disaster.

            That straight took and arranged the Soviet people?
            1. BREAKTHROUGH READY 17 March 2020 14: 10 New
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              I’m directly writing by analogy with this phrase:
              Is it not the people who built the nuclear power plant in the seismic danger zone,
              for which you, for some reason, have no questions.
  7. Amateur 17 March 2020 07: 18 New
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    Also on the submarine installed more powerful diesel generators designed to recharge batteries. ... At the same time, unlike submarines equipped with VNEU, the new submarine is able to constantly replenish the energy reserve in lithium-ion batteries, using battery recharging using a device to operate the engine under the water of the RPD.

    Translating this article into normal language, it turns out that the Japanese abandoned the Stirlings with their supply of liquid oxygen and problems with emissions of combustion products overboard and switched to a standard diesel-electric circuit, only with high-capacity batteries. Note: In the USSR, in the 60s, Project 629 submarines were produced, some of which were equipped with silver-zinc batteries 120-SC batteries, which had characteristics comparable to lithium-ion batteries, but they were abandoned due to their "space" cost.
    Well, the conclusion:
    By the way, Russia does not have a single serial submarine equipped with an air-independent power plant.

    speaks only about the professional level of the author.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 07: 46 New
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      Well, actually, we really don’t have submarines with VNEU
      1. Amateur 17 March 2020 08: 03 New
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        We really don’t have submarines with VNEU

        I already wrote here on the site that absolutely all submarines use VNEU "battery + electric motor" for submerged movement.
        And almost everyone else uses all sorts of “Stirlings” to generate electricity, which require a supply of liquid oxygen on board with the subsequent removal of combustion products overboard. Exceptions are submarines with “fuel cells”, where the oxidation reaction to generate electricity occurs at a different physical level (for example, the German “212”, but because of low power they are used as auxiliary). In Russia, they are trying to develop a “fuel cell” of the appropriate capacity, so far without success.
        How to carry liquid oxygen on board - read about the A-615 "lighters".
        1. tlauicol 17 March 2020 08: 15 New
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          How many accidents / disasters with Japanese submarines in 15 years?
          But with Varshavyanki were
          1. Amateur 17 March 2020 08: 17 New
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            But with Varshavyanki were

            Announce the entire list please! fellow
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 09: 02 New
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          Amateur, if you wrote this, then you are wrong. The concept of a power plant implies the conversion of a certain fuel into a type of energy, and a bunch of battery-electric motor only consumes previously stored energy. That is why naming diesel-electric is generally accepted for such boats, and it is impossible to speak of them as VNEU.
          And thanks for the advice. That's what we would do without young and talented leaders? :))
          1. Amateur 17 March 2020 09: 49 New
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            The concept of a power plant means the conversion of a certain fuel into a type of energy

            The power plant of a submarine (as well as a car, plane, etc.) is designed to carry out some work, namely to carry out movement from point A to point B. But where does the energy come from for this - from the battery, from oxidation (in the home of "combustion") fossil fuels or the decay of an atomic nucleus is a type of this installation.
            Well, for the compliment
            That's what we would do without young and talented leaders? :))
            thank. I haven’t been called like that for 40 years.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 09: 59 New
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              The question is not what the power plant is intended for, but what it consists of. There are definitions in the dictionaries, and if you look at ship eu, there is a clear indication of the presence of a generator part that converts fuel into energy. That is, a power plant on the same Warsaw is a diesel + battery + engine and nothing else.
              We cannot define a power plant as something designed to move from point a to b, otherwise the river is the power plant of the raft
              1. Amateur 17 March 2020 12: 29 New
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                We cannot define a power plant as something designed to move from point a to b, otherwise the river is a power plant raft

                You are absolutely right! Water in the river moves the raft from point A to point B, i.e. does some work. The source of energy for this work is the Earth’s gravitational field (roughly speaking, water flows from top to bottom), and water is a means of converting the potential energy of the gravitational field into the kinetic energy of moving water. In addition to moving the raft, water in the river can also rotate the rotor of an electric generator that generates electricity (collectively called hydroelectric power plants, but I am sure you know that without me)
            2. rudolff 17 March 2020 10: 48 New
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              Amateur, you will notice that in the term VNEU the word "air" is used. “Air,” not “oxygen,” and that is atmospheric air. This is the first.
              And secondly, some definitions are established based on ease of understanding, conditionally accepted. These are not dogmatic concepts. Why argue? Is the installation based on EM and battery non-volatile? Well, you can, probably. But isn’t it easier to call this circuit simply electric? Can I call NPP non-volatile? Well, again it is possible, only how will it distinguish it from other similar installations? By the way, if you really find fault, then not a nuclear power plant, but a nuclear-electric installation. Simply, many terms are negotiable, that's all.
              1. Amateur 17 March 2020 12: 44 New
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                1.
                that in the term VNEU
                Do you mean "crap" based on "Stirling", Electrochemical generator or high-capacity battery mentioned in the article?
                2.
                By the way, if you really find fault, then not a nuclear power plant, but a nuclear-electric installation.
                There are also nuclear-electric installations, for example, a satellite of the Topaz type, where a thermionic converter of thermal energy into electrical energy was used. And the nuclear power is used in the submarine: heat from the fission reaction - water vapor - turbine - electric generator - electricity.
                Once again I draw your attention to the fact that this article describes a boat that uses a classic diesel-electric submarine with high-capacity batteries, but it is argued that it is with VNEU. That is what made me write such abundant comments. The author simply does not understand what he is writing about.
                1. rudolff 18 March 2020 08: 11 New
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                  Not only Stirling and ECG. And the closed-cycle diesel, which stood on the A615, and the turbine, on the basis of which Malachite now sculpts its VNEU. There are other schemes.
                  And what is the difference between the energy of a satellite with a reactor and nuclear submarines in low speed? Only a way to convert energy. On the satellite, direct thermoelectric conversion, on a turbo-generating submarine. Both the reactor and the heat are there, and the output is electricity. True, on a submarine this is possible only on moves less than average, then GTZA is already connected, but full electric movement is not far off. Virginia promises to implement in the last blocks. What is not a nuclear-electric circuit? Just not a very convenient term.
                  There are more questions than answers with this 11th Soryu. The Japanese filter all the information. If they really stole Stirling, then yes, this is a classic diesel-electric submarine with a high-capacity battery. But did Stirling get thrown out? There are certain doubts. If left, then the ship will remain NAPL. By the way, the term is also very controversial. I’m surely cutting my ear.
                  1. Amateur 18 March 2020 08: 20 New
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                    The Japanese filter all the information. If they really stole Stirling

                    Dear rudolff (rudolff)! We are discussing an article in which "black and white" is written
                    Also on the submarine installed more powerful diesel generators designed to recharge batteries. ... At the same time, unlike submarines equipped with VNEU, the new submarine is able to constantly replenish the energy reserve in lithium-ion batteries, using battery recharging using a device to operate the engine under the water of the RPD.

                    Threw or not Stirling I do not know either.
                    But the Author, in fact describing the classic DEPL, is indignant at the lack of similar boats in Russia.
                    1. rudolff 18 March 2020 08: 39 New
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                      Yes, the article is absolutely crazy from top to bottom, except for the news of the adoption of this submarine in the fleet.
                2. kig
                  kig 25 March 2020 10: 46 New
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                  Quote: Amateur
                  This article describes a boat that uses a classic diesel-electric submarine

                  You are absolutely right. Type "Litter" in general - these are boats with VNEU, where an air-independent Stirling engine is used for movement under water. But the last two, judging by the description, are truly classic diesel-electric boats, that is, for underwater travel, ED is used, powered by a new type of large-capacity batteries. And the batteries, when necessary, are charged from ordinary diesel generators, which require fuel and air to work, and hence the RPD device. All the highlight is in the batteries, which allow the boat to get autonomy commensurate with the VNEU-boat.
      2. ser56 17 March 2020 12: 45 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        in fact, we really don’t have submarines with VNEU

        the nuclear submarines fully fall under this definition ... request
        so it's time to stop doing stupid things and spend money on exotic type VEU, you just need to put a low-power reactor (0.5MW electric) on a submarine for inland seas, something like a hybrid car - the battery is constantly charging from the reactor generator ...
  8. 113262a 17 March 2020 08: 35 New
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    The crew will now bandage their head with white bandages at each exit to the sea, drink SAKE and take a knife for hara-kiri (sepuki). For when the battery compartment leaks, the main thing is to have time to shout BANZAI))) Lithium with water is still a pleasure!
  9. Zeev Zeev 17 March 2020 08: 58 New
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    A small remark about lithium. In its pure form, this metal is very sensitive to moisture and when it enters water (even in scanty amounts) enters into a very violent chemical reaction of an explosive nature. All cases of ignition and explosion of lithium batteries are associated precisely with this feature, since poor quality of battery production often leads to leakage (for example, when heated during operation due to thermal expansion of materials).
    My personal opinion is at sea, especially in warships lithium batteries are too dangerous. It may not be like pure oxygen cylinders, but still.
    1. donavi49 17 March 2020 09: 14 New
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      Well, for the first prototype boat, Akki obviously didn’t order with AliExpress and twisted wires in the garage.

      Sealing there is provided, both elements and assemblies.

      If the boat, especially the modern one, actively receives water, and even into the battery compartment, then everything is very bad. Most likely, it does not matter whether it explodes or not.
    2. kig
      kig 25 March 2020 17: 08 New
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      I suspect that the Japanese also know about this feature, and came up with something.
  10. sevtrash 17 March 2020 09: 51 New
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    And now what is VNEU for Kalina? You can safely forget about the failures of working with 677 and switch to new batteries. Again cut the budget with a result unknown to the fleet?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 10: 14 New
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      Generally speaking, VNEU is being sawed by several organizations at the same time, and they work with lithium-ion. But ... Vague doubts gnaw me ...
      1. rudolff 17 March 2020 10: 25 New
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        So for how many years they have been nibbling ... Plans for LIABs were already voiced under Vysotsky. Rubin was entrusted. The result is about the same as with VNEU.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 10: 43 New
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          That is, no, for according to rumors from VNEU, Rubin has reached a dead end and is afraid to admit that he has spent state money beyond measure. But I kind of heard of some other LIAB developer for the fleet ...
          1. rudolff 17 March 2020 10: 54 New
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            Rubin has come to a dead end. Yes, there are other developers and even certified LIABs for maritime transport as part of traction units. But Moscow has its own views on life ...
  11. rudolff 17 March 2020 10: 09 New
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    "Boats of the Soryu type are considered quite noiseless, and they can argue with modern atomic submarines in terms of duration of sailing underwater."
    But they can’t fly into space? Well, why write such nonsense?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 March 2020 10: 45 New
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      In such cases, I usually say: “If I could cook, I would marry” - BUT! Only when his wife is not there, she does not appreciate such humor laughing
  12. rudolff 17 March 2020 10: 20 New
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    “For boats of this project equipped with a non-volatile power plant, the cruising range is estimated at 6100 nautical miles (approximately 11 km) at a speed of 300 knots (approximately 6,5 km / h). It is reported that new submarines receiving lithium-ion batteries, will be able to stay in the underwater position for even longer, in fact, their capabilities will be limited only by the supply of provisions and fresh water on board. "
    This cruising range is given based on the stock of diesel fuel when navigating in the above-water position or under the RPD. In this respect, Varshavyanka is not much inferior. And where is the "underwater autonomy" and "range of scuba diving on the same battery"?
    A week and a half? Against up to four weeks at VNEU?
    LIABs are simply advanced and capacious batteries, not magic boxes. Otherwise, everyone would have long ago transferred to electric cars and forgot what gasoline is.
    1. SVD68 17 March 2020 12: 43 New
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      This cruising range is given for boats with a Stirling engine. About boats with LIAB it is said that they "will be able to stay under water even longer."
      1. rudolff 17 March 2020 13: 17 New
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        Quote further:
        "... will be able to be in an underwater position for even longer, in fact, their capabilities will be limited only by the supply of provisions and fresh water on board."
        And the fairy tale has come true?
  13. pmkemcity 17 March 2020 11: 31 New
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    The maximum surface speed of the boat is 13 knots (approximately 24 km / h), the maximum speed of underwater speed is 20 knots (approximately 37 km / h).

    It would be necessary to train the author "crushing".
    1. SASHA OLD 17 March 2020 13: 58 New
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      Quote: pmkemcity
      The maximum surface speed of the boat is 13 knots (approximately 24 km / h), the maximum speed of underwater speed is 20 knots (approximately 37 km / h).

      It would be necessary to train the author "crushing".

      this is due to the fact that he does not pin
  14. SVD68 17 March 2020 12: 39 New
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    What is the advantage of LIAB over the Stirling engine? The fact that LIAB provides movement in combat modes. And the Stirling engine is an auxiliary engine for movement in non-combat modes.
    1. rudolff 17 March 2020 13: 46 New
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      The only advantage is ease of use.
      I will explain what you said. In addition to the Stirling engine or other VNEU, there is also a standard battery pack on board and I note that it is always in a fully charged state. VNEU provides a stroke of 2-3 knots, some up to 5 knots. With active maneuvering or an increase in the underwater speed, the main propeller motor is reconnected to battery power. When driving underwater, the entire battery capacity is consumed in a matter of hours. Next, you need to reset the course.
      Now imagine that you have only LIABs. Yes, these are advanced and more capacious batteries, but nonetheless, these are just batteries. The entire power system of the ship in the underwater position is powered only from them. To save, the move is the smallest. When a combat mission suddenly arrives, it is completely unknown what battery level will be. Maybe 90%, maybe 30%. Will you win a lot by 30%? Let even the energy efficiency of LIABs be twice as high as usual, but on submarines with VNEU they will always be 100% ready. And in full swing and LIABs die quickly.
      And finally, the price. Do you think it was impossible to put more capacious batteries on diesel-electric submarines before? And in war, the laws of economics work. Take a look at the cost of this Soryu's battery pack. But it’s not for the whole cycle of the ship’s service, it’s necessary to change it.
      Would they be cheaper, ideally would be a combination of VNEU and LIABs.
      1. rudolff 17 March 2020 13: 50 New
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        Well, I’ll add. Technology does not stand still. The next generation of VNEU is on its way. With more power, efficiency, greater underwater travel. And Stirling may someday become a single submarine engine altogether, for surface and underwater moves.
        1. SVD68 17 March 2020 15: 00 New
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          The Japanese, who have experience in the long-term operation of boats outside the Baltic, decided otherwise.
          1. rudolff 17 March 2020 15: 21 New
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            We do not know how this idea is realized. It is possible that they not only replaced the standard set of batteries with LIABs, but they also clogged the compartment previously intended for VNEU and tanks with oxidizer. A variant of the German "electric bots" in a modern manner. Well, let's see how the operation goes.
          2. Sergey S. 17 March 2020 18: 51 New
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            Quote: SVD68
            The Japanese, who have experience in the long-term operation of boats outside the Baltic, decided otherwise.

            ... Wait and see.
            How correctly decided ....
  15. iouris 17 March 2020 12: 52 New
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    The author’s personal scientific contribution is that he proposes a new rule for writing the term “Li-ion” for the state Russian language.
  16. SASHA OLD 17 March 2020 13: 57 New
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    it's all fine ..
    but lithium is not as much as we would like.
    the most promising energy storage devices will be sodium-based.
    here it is - at least “pour in”: moreover, literally sodium is in salt, which means it will be possible to mine it from sea water.
    Sodium-ion batteries are about the same in efficiency as lithium-ion batteries, but because there is a lot of sodium and a little lithium, sodium batteries are much cheaper
    1. iouris 17 March 2020 14: 16 New
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      Quote: SASHA OLD
      a lot of sodium and a little lithium

      Here the Russian Federation has a vast territory, yes, damn it, almost everything - the tundra, but swamps. It seems that the country is large, yes, damn it, population density (on average) is approaching zero. The Japanese have almost nothing from the resources, and the batteries are made of lithium, which is not enough. We have almost everything, but lithium is expensive. So what's the problem?
      1. SASHA OLD 17 March 2020 18: 49 New
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        Quote: iouris
        Quote: SASHA OLD
        a lot of sodium and a little lithium

        Here the Russian Federation has a vast territory, yes, damn it, almost everything - the tundra, but swamps. It seems that the country is large, yes, damn it, population density (on average) is approaching zero. The Japanese have almost nothing from the resources, and the batteries are made of lithium, which is not enough. We have almost everything, but lithium is expensive. So what's the problem?

        How technically you didn’t mention anything on the subject of “what investments” the technical and technological “Nippon miracle” happened ...
        1. iouris 20 March 2020 14: 29 New
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          Quote: SASHA OLD
          "what investments" the technical and technological "nippon miracle" happened ...

          There are no miracles. Japan is the product of US managers. The Japanese have always done for the United States what is not effective in the United States. The same is true for South Korea.
          And why does the Russian Federation exist? This must be formulated.
      2. SASHA OLD 17 March 2020 19: 17 New
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        and now detail:

        Quote: iouris
        Here the Russian Federation has a vast territory, yes, damn it, almost everything - the tundra, but swamps.
        - this is with us, in Siberia and in the Far East - tundra and swamps, but this is not all of Russia.

        Quote: iouris
        It seems that the country is large, yes, damn it, population density (on average) is approaching zero.
        - Russia has a density of 8 and a half people per km-square, in this parameter we are the 181st. Japan - 336 with a third person per square kilometer, they are 25th in this parameter ...
        And now with regard to the effect of population density on the cost of lithium: why do you think that these indicators are directly related (the DIRECT keyword, because everything is indirectly affected by everything)? (I don’t argue here, I just really don’t understand who is understands better - I ask also in discussion, I will be grateful)
        In general, I do not think that in Bangladesh (the first country in the world in terms of population density) lithium is directly dependent on the number of people living in one square kilometer, and that it is noticeably cheaper or more expensive because of this density ..

        Quote: iouris
        The Japanese have almost nothing from the resources, and the batteries are made of lithium, which is not enough.
        - But where did the Japanese come from after the Second World War? from their "incredible mind and total genius"? - of course not. This "Japanese miracle" happened due to Western investment and the Japanese idea of ​​workaholism (a good idea in general, if "without fanaticism")

        Quote: iouris
        We have almost everything, but lithium is expensive.
        - So it is almost as expensive for the Japanese: it’s not the density of the population “on a single spot” that matters, but how much lithium is left in the world: let's imagine that there are only 336.3 grams left in the world of lithium, does it matter that a thousand live in Bangladesh people per sq / km, in Japan - 8.56, and in Russia XNUMX ..? - I am sure: if something important, such as a technological breakthrough, depends on it, it will cost equally everywhere ... or if no one needs it, it will not cost anything.

        Quote: iouris
        So what's the problem?
        - the problem is that his
        a) little
        b) dear
        And if not for “a,” then there would be no “b.” then they wouldn’t come up with a replacement, but after all, from the 90s they came up with, invented and came up with: the first serial sodium-ion batteries appeared 5-8 years ago.
        1. voyaka uh 17 March 2020 21: 16 New
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          "This" Japanese miracle "happened due to Western investment
          and the Japanese idea of ​​workaholism "///
          ----
          Investments are made only where there is potential for their return with profit.
          The fact that Japan - a country without natural resources - poured a lot of money in 50-70
          years of the last century say a lot.
          Japanese engineers are some of the best in the world. Japanese production is the most
          high-quality in the world (only recently South Korea was able to break ahead).
          1. timokhin-aa 18 March 2020 20: 49 New
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            Investments are made only where there is potential for their return with profit.


            This is a necessary condition, but it is not sufficient. Political factors mean no less.
  17. faterdom 17 March 2020 14: 28 New
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    Here are the yellow-faced crooks. Will now hang near the Kuril Islands - ask for exercises.
  18. Operator 17 March 2020 14: 53 New
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    Lithium-ion batteries are a new fetish of the worship of worship.

    Russophobes of all stripes, in strict accordance with the new training manual, switched to PR prodigy under the name "air-independent installation" submarine with a range of 400 km and a speed of 10 knots laughing

    And this despite the fact that only Russia has a nuclear reactor with unique mass and size characteristics, fast neutrons and a liquid metal carrier with an electric power of 10 MW installed on Posedon NPP (displacement 44 tons, speed 100 knots, range unlimited) and suitable for installation on ICAPL with a displacement of 1000 tons, a speed of 30 knots and an unlimited range.
    1. Eskobar 24 March 2020 19: 09 New
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      This is where 14 people died?
  19. Jacques Sekavar 17 March 2020 19: 20 New
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    Japanese militarism is reborn, but as an ally of the evil empire is not negotiable. On the contrary, the spearhead of propaganda of the evil empire and its vassals is aimed not at deterring the aggressor - Japan, but at condemning its victim - China.
    Lead-zinc, lithium-ion and other rechargeable batteries as a source of energy, driving large objects like cars, ships, aircraft - a temporary solution.
    The future lies in thermonuclear energy for various purposes and with wireless systems for its targeted transmission to the home, car, life support equipment and all other consumers.
    The view is given by mobile communication - paid, you use it. I didn’t pay, they turned it off - in the coming digital world, any debt will be tantamount to death.
    1. Hwostatij 17 March 2020 20: 00 New
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      And the wireless system for targeted transfer of thermonuclear energy - what kind of animal is this, if not secret?
    2. Aleksandr1971 18 March 2020 11: 28 New
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      Any decision is temporary. But we live here and now, and not at the time of controlled thermonuclear fusion.
      If you, Jacques Sekavar, want to equip our submarines with fusion reactors, then go ahead - throw your project into production. And if you don’t have a project, put this brilliant idea in some other place.
      1. agond 18 March 2020 17: 56 New
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        If the film elements of lithium-ion batteries are packaged in a “soft bag” filled with a special liquid, then such a battery can be placed outside the solid submarine case, in the same Varshavyanka, there is quite a lot of space between the cases.
  20. Eskobar 24 March 2020 19: 07 New
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    Impressive characteristics of Japanese torpedoes
  21. sinoptic 25 March 2020 15: 44 New
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    Li-ion batteries are quite flammable. Probably forgot how Samsung Note phones burned cars a few years ago?
    This I mean, the big question is how such boats will behave in battle at the limit and how much will such a boat be resistant to damage in the aquatic environment? These water batteries ignite like gunpowder.
    Japan, as always, in its spirit - the strategy of the Zero fighter - is light, fast but burned like a match.
    1. agond 25 March 2020 19: 39 New
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      Quote: sinoptic
      These water batteries ignite like gunpowder.

      If you collect large batteries from small individual cells packed in a separate case, and put these cases into a sealed container and fill with at least epoxy, then the risks will decrease to the minimum.
  22. Kostadinov 3 June 2020 09: 26 New
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    For boats of this project equipped with an air-independent power plant, the cruising range is estimated at 6100 nautical miles (approximately 11 km) at a speed of 300 knots (approximately 6,5 km / h).

    Is this an underwater range under the batteries, or with Stirling engines or under the RPD?
    And the underwater speed of 20 knots under the batteries is ... hours?