The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

Russian military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan will receive the KamAZ and Ural armored vehicles with enhanced armor protection. On their board will be placed a variety of weapons - from heavy machine guns to anti-tank systems. New technique will be used against the favorite weapons militants - "jihad mobiles."


According to Izvestia with reference to the Ministry of Defense, several units equipped with new equipment will be deployed at the military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in the "Afghan" direction by the end of 2022, a decision on this has already been made. The first armored trucks have already arrived at the Kant air base in Kyrgyzstan and at the 201st military base in Tajikistan.

The military department explained that such armored trucks are especially effective against pickup trucks with installed weapons. On such "jihad mobiles", militants mount heavy machine guns, recoilless guns and even launchers of NURS - unguided missile shells. In the Middle East, these pickups are very effective, for example, in Syria, militants on such off-road vehicles with rapid attacks twice captured Palmyra, and Iraq - Mosul.

Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than vehicles. Moreover, the protection of the armored personnel carrier is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and in terms of firepower one truck can even surpass the armored personnel carrier, depending on what weapons it is installed on. In the steppes of Central Asia, powerful cars can drive without roads at all, and they have twice the power reserve than armored vehicles.

The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan. Often such mobile firing points were made by hand, with their own hands. Now the trucks will come already with established reinforced reservations.
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  1. ABM
    ABM 14 March 2020 19: 07 New
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    Here are the best practices! So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body
    1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 19: 28 New
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      Quote: ABM
      Here are the best practices!

      That's right.
      Something they really began to inadequate. Issuing a coercive measure as a “best practice” is a great deal.
      1. SSR
        SSR 14 March 2020 20: 04 New
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        Quote: Spade
        Issuing a coercive measure as a “best practice” is a great deal.

        That is, is it a necessary measure or bust? If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?
        The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust? I honestly want to understand.
        1. Marconi41 14 March 2020 20: 17 New
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          Quote: SSR
          What's the bust?

          In speed! Wheelbarrows in bearded people are good because they ride fast. He shot and quickly dumped, and what speed of a loaded truck is what, but its height? Just a training target for PTRovets.
          1. businessv 14 March 2020 20: 49 New
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            Quote: Marconi41
            He shot and quickly dumped, and what speed of a loaded truck is what, but its height? Just a training target for PTRovets.

            This target, with memory 23-2, can pick up any pickup with 12 mm before it opens fire, and a roomy truck can take 4 times more ammunition than the same pickup! So you're wrong, colleague!
            1. kapitan92 14 March 2020 23: 31 New
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              Quote: businessv
              This target, with memory 23-2, can pick up any pickup with 12 mm before it opens fire, and a roomy truck can take 4 times more ammunition than the same pickup! So you're wrong, colleague!

              What are you a colleague about? Did you fight, or learn from the couch?
              This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a particular theater. Similar in Syria, it has proven itself very well, efficiently and cheaply.
              To buy back ???? So you have to get in first! hi
              1. businessv 16 March 2020 00: 16 New
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                Quote: kapitan92
                What are you a colleague about? Did you fight, or learn from the couch?
                This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a particular theater. Similar in Syria, it has proven itself very well, efficiently and cheaply.
                To buy back ???? So you have to get in first!

                He fought when they still didn’t put DShK on pickups. To get with a rate of 2000 rounds per minute and a caliber of 23 mm is easier than with 125 rounds per minute and 12,5 mm, as the results of such an attack are incomparable, as well as the scope of such weapons. Before you write, first learn the materiel!
                1. kapitan92 16 March 2020 00: 29 New
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                  Quote: businessv
                  He fought when they still didn’t put DShK on pickups.

                  Son of Gazmanov in Syria sang a couple of songs, and is already a member of the "fighting", with all the benefits.
                  Quote: businessv
                  To get with a rate of 2000 rounds per minute and a caliber of 23 mm is easier than with 125 rounds per minute and 12,5 mm, as the results of such an attack are incomparable, as well as the scope of such weapons. Before you write, first learn the materiel!

                  You first read my post carefully, and then get clever. . For you duplicate.
                  This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a particular theater. Similar in Syria, it has proven itself very well, efficiently and cheaply.
                  1. businessv 16 March 2020 00: 39 New
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                    Quote: kapitan92
                    This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a particular theater. Similar in Syria, it has proven itself very well, efficiently and cheaply.

                    As for Gazmanov, you know better, apparently your circle of talkers and parasites. In my first post, I wrote a comparison of weapons, as in the second, more detailed. It is foolish of you to write obvious things. I read everything carefully. You again answered my post with your nonsense. Both on the first and on the second. You are a demagogue and provocateur. hi
                    1. kapitan92 16 March 2020 00: 42 New
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                      Quote: businessv
                      . You are a demagogue and provocateur

                      Glad your arguments are over, warrior! hi
                      1. businessv 16 March 2020 00: 51 New
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                        Quote: kapitan92
                        Glad your arguments are over, warrior!

                        I’m doubly happy for you, demagogue! good
          2. Insurgent 14 March 2020 22: 38 New
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            Quote: Marconi41
            Just a training target for PTRovets.

            Obviously for the ATGM?
          3. SSR
            SSR 15 March 2020 13: 52 New
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            Quote: Marconi41
            In speed! Wheelbarrows in bearded people are good because they ride fast. He shot and quickly fell down,

            The speed of a loaded pickup truck also decreases.))) How is this option?
          4. EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 48 New
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            For ATGMs, there is not much difference that the truck is that of the APCs, but the gangs have ATGM complexes in short supply.
        2. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 25 New
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          Quote: SSR
          If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?

          You need to sweep the parade ground. No brooms, one crowbar. Throw a crowbar. A stickman approaches you and for your convenience hands you .... chrome scrap. Stating that this is a wise innovation, allowing you to better clean it from dust after work.
          This is a bust.
          1. alexmach 14 March 2020 20: 34 New
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            So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?
            1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 41 New
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              Quote: alexmach
              So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

              Helicopter.
              To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
              For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor
              1. alexmach 14 March 2020 20: 46 New
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                In perplexity I spread my hands, so there is everything, it seems .. well, except that without an air conditioner, but this should be solved ..
                1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 52 New
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                  Quote: alexmach
                  so there is everything like ..

                  Good point ... laughing

                  It's just that someone is used to actively depicting it instead of real work. And examples of such actions in the RF Ministry of Defense are just a sea.
              2. abc_alex 15 March 2020 10: 21 New
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                Quote: Spade
                Helicopter.
                To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
                For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor

                And how do you explain then that as soon as our army begins to fight somewhere, army craftsmen immediately begin to install 23-mm anti-aircraft guns in truck bodies? This army home-made in the photo from Chechnya is at least something to eat. Aiv Afgan even adapted Shilki for infantry fire support. But there was no shortage.

                Obviously, this idea is not so bad - heavy infantry weapons in a truck?
                1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 10: 39 New
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                  Quote: abc_alex
                  And how do you explain then that as soon as our army begins to fight somewhere, army craftsmen immediately begin to install 23-mm anti-aircraft guns in truck bodies?

                  There was a period when it was really needed.
                  In Afghanistan, due to the fact that BMP-1, BTR-60 and BRDM-2 have large restrictions on the angles of vertical aiming. And in the mountains it is fraught with big problems
                  Or in Chechnya, when you need to accompany the rear columns, but there is no "wheel armor". For example, in the shelves on the BMP.

                  But these were all forced measures. Due to the fact that there is no necessary equipment. And not because the ZU-23-2 is better
                  1. Dog
                    Dog 16 March 2020 16: 07 New
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                    Quote: Spade
                    But these were all forced measures

                    "And better - a thousand guns per kilometer of the front" (s)
                    But the possibilities of any industry are limited.
                    An APC and a cart are better than just an APC, even an APC is better than a cart.
                    1. Lopatov 16 March 2020 16: 09 New
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                      Quote: Dog
                      But the possibilities of any industry are limited.

                      And even more limited are the possibilities of demography. Times "women still give birth" are a thing of the past under Khrushchev

                      Therefore, an armored personnel carrier and a cart are worse than just an armored personnel carrier
                      1. Dog
                        Dog 16 March 2020 20: 28 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        Demographics are even more limited.

                        Do you think robots are already working at factories?
                        Let's equip the army’s floor with nothing - it must be thought that demography will be tightened in case of military operations
                      2. Lopatov 16 March 2020 20: 30 New
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                        Quote: Dog
                        Do you think robots are already working at factories?

                        And where are the plants, if we are talking about the calculations of ZU-23-2, forced to climb under bullets and splinters for the sake of "economy"
                        Or do you offer hard workers from these factories to drive into the army as "consumables"?
                      3. Dog
                        Dog 16 March 2020 21: 00 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        and here the plants

                        Demographics affect production no less than the number of fighters.

                        Quote: Spade
                        we are talking about the calculations of ZU-23-2, forced to climb under bullets and fragments for the sake of "saving"

                        It's about the unfortunate calculations of ZU-23-2, deprived of mobility because of your stubbornness in protecting the illogical slogan that BTR is better and nothing than BTR and cart.

                        Quote: Spade
                        You offer hard workers from these plants to drive into the army

                        This is not what I propose, it was smart minds that at one time came up with so much that there is an active army, but there is a reserve that, in which case, throws machines and picks up weapons.
                      4. Lopatov 16 March 2020 21: 08 New
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                        Quote: Dog
                        We are talking about the unfortunate calculations of ZU-23-2, deprived of mobility

                        Why do they need mobility?
                        This is an obsolete anti-aircraft gun, unable to work on modern means of air attack.
                        And not ensuring the safety of calculation when applied to ground targets.

                        In addition, "mobility" has a flip side - a sharp decrease in accuracy. And so not very high.

                        Quote: Dog
                        It’s not I suggest, it’s clever minds that

                        "smart heads" came up with the use of trained fighters as suicide bombers in order to reduce the cost of weapons? Are they smart?
                      5. Dog
                        Dog 16 March 2020 21: 18 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        Why do they need mobility?

                        Movement is life.

                        Quote: Spade
                        insecure calculation when applied to ground targets

                        And you are her last hope - mobility - trying to pick up.

                        Quote: Spade
                        there is a flip side, a sharp decrease in accuracy. And so not very high.

                        Automatic infantry weapons are generally not an exact thing. Bolt rifle - more precisely.

                        Quote: Spade
                        use trained fighters as suicide bombers

                        Without mobility, it’s just death row.
                      6. Lopatov 16 March 2020 23: 24 New
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                        Quote: Dog
                        Automatic infantry weapons are generally not an exact thing.

                        I apologize, but the ZU-23-2 is never a "weapon of infantry" This is an outdated model of weapons for anti-aircraft gunners. Unable to protect even from "shock" drones with aliexpress.

                        Quote: Dog
                        Without mobility, it’s just death row.

                        Dear, the Urals, like it or not, are much slower even than the ancient first-generation ATGMs.
                        So "mobility" of this kind will not help.
                      7. Dog
                        Dog 17 March 2020 06: 08 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        ZU-23-2 is never a "weapon of infantry"

                        Do you think they put it on a cart for air defense purposes?

                        Quote: Spade
                        The Urals, if not cool, is much slower than even the ancient ATGMs

                        Running away from a rocket - smacks of Munich women. Change of position after firing, timely maneuver by forces - I think the calculation is still for these actions
              3. abc_alex 23 March 2020 14: 31 New
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                Quote: Spade
                And where are the plants, if we are talking about the calculations of ZU-23-2, forced to climb under bullets and splinters for the sake of "economy"

                ??? The firing range of the ZU-23-2 is 2500 meters. And this is not a design parameter, it is the range at which the tracer is lit and after which the standard projectile is undermined. What bullets will the calculations go under? Even at a distance of half the maximum range, they will be reliably protected from the main types of small arms. The only exception is shelling from a large-caliber DShK, which, as you know, is a unique thing.
                And it's not about saving. Indeed, it is not because of the economy that the armies of the world do not arm themselves entirely with machine guns, but use assault rifles.
                There is a certain task - to promptly strengthen the infantry division by means of suppressing firing points outside the small arms coverage area. You can - armored personnel carrier. You can - BMP. You can - a tank or BMPT. But for some reason, the army team is constantly making a makeshift with ZU-23-2. Are they dumber than you and me? We will argue with those who are at the forefront or, perhaps, do what they want? They need a truck with a ZU-23-2. Let's make it, not only at the homemade level, but at the normal technical level, in the form of a secure module with reservation.

                Quote: Spade
                This is an obsolete anti-aircraft gun, unable to work on modern means of air attack.

                The ability to fire at ground targets was provided for in the ZU-23-2 design initially: for this purpose, the T-23 optical ground sight was mounted on the ZAP-3 sight, which had a line of sight independent of the ZAP-23.
    2. businessv 16 March 2020 00: 20 New
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      Quote: abc_alex
      in Afghanistan, even Shilka for infantry fire support adapted. But there was no shortage.

      To increase ammunition, they pulled out PSAs and other electronics from there, leaving them necessary for firing. Rate of fire - 4000 rds / min, and for this they adapted. Do not raise your head if it has not yet been torn off by a shot.
  2. Mwg
    Mwg 15 March 2020 18: 48 New
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    And a hundred million billion in addition, yeah
  3. Mwg
    Mwg 15 March 2020 18: 51 New
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    The infantry climbed onto the armor, fearing undermining rather than heat, Mr. Army Admiral
    1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 19: 25 New
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      Quote: MVG
      Infantry climbed on the armor fearing undermining

      Why be afraid of him?
      Infantry rides in a convoy. If anyone blows up, then intelligence or tankers.

      And by the way, why in bad weather did the infantry climb back into the landing? Is there a lower risk of blasting during the rain? laughing
      1. Mwg
        Mwg 16 March 2020 07: 51 New
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        There is such a thing, a controlled landmine called. Buried, sitting, waiting. Depending on the purpose and composition of the column and the purpose of the ambush, the blasting is carried out either after the passage of the head vehicle, or closer to the middle. Usually tearing just escort combat vehicles, as this is a fairly serious force in itself, and even with the landing.
        If a land mine is detonated under a BMP or BMD, due to the design features, the crew and the landing force in a confined space receive more serious injuries, including compression fractures of the spine (if survived - disabled). On board the same explosion, the assault blows off with less serious consequences. Hit in the RPG grenade technique is a 100% death of both the landing party and the crew.
        By the way, the crew traveled almost always with open hatches: there were cases when, during an explosion, the crew threw into the hatches with minimal damage. The most dangerous place is the shooter in the tower, there are no hatches
        Well, no one wants to get wet in the rain, and even when it is not known when it will be possible to dry out, and the task must be completed. There’s a lottery: if it explodes, it does not explode.
        1. Lopatov 16 March 2020 17: 38 New
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          Quote: MVG
          There is such a thing, a controlled landmine called. Buried, sitting, waiting.

          They do not "bury" him, because a hole in the asphalt is immediately visible. It will be installed on the sidelines.
          Those who did not stick out on the armor will be saved.

          Quote: MVG
          Well, no one wants to get wet in the rain,

          Exactly.
          And suddenly the mine danger disappears somewhere.
          1. Mwg
            Mwg 16 March 2020 21: 02 New
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            Landmines are installed on the sidelines as a means of hitting columns in 1,2,3 vehicles / lightly armored vehicles without amplification and are not used against columns with amplification, since such a tool is ineffective for armor. When attacking columns with reinforcement on the sidelines, cumulative charges can be installed to defeat armored vehicles on board, but this is a theory that, due to complexity, is practically not applied.
            Where asphalt columns are undermined / undermined, not enough, and where it is successfully used, horizontal pits, or lay a landmine in the watercourse pipes under the roadway
          2. Lopatov 16 March 2020 21: 25 New
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            Quote: MVG
            Landmines are installed on the sidelines as a means of hitting columns in 1,2,3 vehicles / lightly armored vehicles without reinforcement and are not used against columns with reinforcement, because such an agent is ineffective for armor.

            Nonsense.
            IEDs on the sidelines qualitatively destroy the infantry sitting on the armor and are able to disable equipment regardless of the length of the column.
            Rather, on the contrary, the longer the better

            Quote: MVG
            When attacking columns with reinforcement on the sidelines, cumulative charges can be set

            It remains to figure out where to give the poor militant a modern anti-sideboard mine laughing

            Quote: MVG
            Where there are / undermined columns of asphalt columns is not enough

            Yah ???

            Quote: MVG
            successfully apply horizontal pits

            In which so many explosives are crammed that sitting on the armor will not save. As in Pioneer, eight hundred with copecks under the roadbed. Well, the wire was interrupted during the execution of an unfinished refueling, where the place for the "detonator" was determined.

            It’s just stupidly impractical to invest so much work for the sake of IEDs, from which you can be saved while sitting on the armor, and not inside it.

            Quote: MVG
            either lay a landmine in the pipes of the watercourse under the roadway

            Which stupid sappers simply will not guess to check ...
          3. Mwg
            Mwg 17 March 2020 03: 47 New
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            Marshal Zhukov, as Zhukov is))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
  • Graz 15 March 2020 04: 23 New
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    everything has long been invented wheel tank
    Quote: alexmach
    So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?
  • ccsr 15 March 2020 11: 44 New
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    Quote: SSR
    The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust?

    You correctly assessed everything - cheapness and mobility are precisely the main factor for creating such a technique. If desired, it will be handed over to the local military, and at low cost they will be trained in an illiterate contingent. By the way, back in Soviet times, they tried to use MTLBu for such weapons, but refused, and work on mass production did not begin, if I am not mistaken. I believe that the use of an automobile base with light booking is most optimal for combating terrorists in that region.
    1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 13: 07 New
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      Quote: ccsr
      cheapness

      Who?
      Those fighters who will be put on the memory?
      And let's count? What do they cost parents and the state. From birth.
      1. ccsr 15 March 2020 16: 58 New
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        Quote: Spade
        Who?
        Those fighters who will be put on the memory?

        The cost of weapons. By the way, suicide bombers often undermine themselves in crowded places, directing a car stuffed with explosives at a checkpoint or barracks. How then will a tank standing in the park help you? And to defeat such a suicide bomber, the Urals with a memory are quite suitable.
        Quote: Spade
        And let's count?

        Count and understand that any involvement in an armed conflict is not without losses. Maybe instead of counting, just do not send troops to other countries?
        Quote: Spade
        What do they cost parents and the state. From birth.

        You are in favor of liquidating the army, because in the course of exercises and maneuvers, people die, and army life is not without it. You then say that you need to declare neutrality and we will live like Sweden or Switzerland.
        Do you even know that in our SA the annual losses of personnel in everyday life and during the training of troops were higher than the average annual military losses of troops in Afghanistan for the entire period of their stay?
        1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 17: 49 New
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          Quote: ccsr
          The cost of weapons.

          And do not you consider suicide bombers in the seats of ZU-23-2? Free consumables?

          Quote: ccsr
          just do not send troops to other countries?

          Do you think that fighting in your own is much better?
          1. ccsr 15 March 2020 17: 57 New
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            Quote: Spade
            And do not you consider suicide bombers in the seats of ZU-23-2?

            I did not see them traveling around the streets of our cities.
            Quote: Spade
            Do you think that fighting in your own is much better?

            Of course - if people die here, we at least understand why they die and appreciate it. And for what our contractors in Syria are now dying, most of them have no idea - you yourself know why?
            1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 18: 16 New
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              Quote: ccsr
              I did not see them traveling around the streets of our cities.

              So you are very lucky.
              But I saw it.
              Maybe that's why I prefer the war to go outside the country, and not in it?

              Quote: ccsr
              Of course - if people die here, we at least understand why they die and appreciate it.

              You, as it’s softer, don’t give a damn about them ... from the high bell tower. No matter where they fight.
              Even in the case of this strange product, ZU-23-2 on a truck. You focus on the cheapness of such a decision. And the fact that the calculation may die even from a simple shooter, you do not care. Cheapness is more important.

              Quote: ccsr
              do you know why?

              In order for the forces and means of international Islamic terrorism to be spent in Syria, and not in the Caucasus.
              1. ccsr 15 March 2020 19: 17 New
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                Quote: Spade
                But I saw it.

                I wonder where?
                Quote: Spade
                Maybe that's why I prefer the war to go outside the country, and not in it?

                But doesn’t it scare that they will throw us after we render assistance, even at the cost of the death of our people?

                Quote: Spade
                You on them, as it were softer,

                I do not know your military experience, therefore, to put it mildly, I do not share your demagogy. Are they even the deputy armament for the regiment’s armament, or were there general ideas about armored vehicles and its operation?
                Quote: Spade
                You focus on the cheapness of such a decision.

                This is done for a specific situation, and before a decision was made, it was discussed by professionals who take into account all the realities, not your emotions.
                Quote: Spade
                In order for the forces and means of international Islamic terrorism to be spent in Syria, and not in the Caucasus.

                I have heard this more than once, but experience has shown that Syria is only one country, and Islamic radicals in dozens of countries have their bases. Do you want to send our troops there so that they don’t get to the Caucasus? Do you believe in this argument?
                1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 19: 39 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  I wonder where?

                  Ossetia, Ingushetia, Chechnya

                  Quote: ccsr
                  But it’s not scary that they will throw us

                  I don't care about that.
                  We have already made the Caucasus much safer. And not only the Caucasus.

                  Quote: ccsr
                  I do not know your military experience

                  Enough. To understand what it is about. And how false are the phrases about "we understand why they are dying and appreciate it"


                  Quote: ccsr
                  Themselves then at least deputy regiment armament were

                  And zampotech here generally from which side ?????

                  Quote: ccsr

                  I have heard this more than once, but experience has shown that Syria is only one country, and Islamic radicals in dozens of countries have their bases. Do you want to send our troops there so that they don’t get to the Caucasus? Do you believe in this argument?

                  Experience has shown that money spent in Syria cannot be spent in Russia.
                  Experience has shown that the militant killed in Syria cannot be sent to Russia to organize a terrorist attack.
                  As experience has shown, a rocket purchased in Bulgaria cannot be simultaneously used in Syria and Russia

                  And what your experience tells you is your own business.
                2. ccsr 15 March 2020 19: 54 New
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                  Quote: Spade
                  Ossetia, Ingushetia, Chechnya

                  It was too long ago and their appearance was associated only with the drunk president. We don’t remember a walk-in field in Civil for comparison. I ask you about the current realities, since we are talking about modern weapons.

                  Quote: Spade
                  We have already made the Caucasus much safer.

                  I do not share your optimism - at least in Ingushetia, Yevkurov did not succeed, judging by the fact that he himself was blown up and he left this post.
                  Quote: Spade
                  And zampotech here generally from which side ?????

                  They understand the issues of the operation of weapons and military equipment best of all, and all theorists of modern warfare need to listen to their opinion.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Experience has shown that the militant killed in Syria cannot be sent to Russia to organize a terrorist attack.

                  In its place there are dozens of those who come to us from Central Asia, or, as in Tatarstan, undermine objectionable mullahs.
                  I think that you simply do not own the situation with the contingent of Islamists arrested by the FSB. Something there is not Syrian come across, as far as I understand from the reports of the special services.

                  Quote: Spade
                  As experience has shown, a rocket purchased in Bulgaria cannot be simultaneously used in Syria and Russia

                  Already for some reason, and they sell guns to all militants who are not lazy - even Israeli equipment is in service with them. You should not hope for it, it is naive.
                3. Lopatov 15 March 2020 20: 18 New
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                  Quote: ccsr
                  It was too long

                  Whole half a year ago?
                  See how interesting. I said that you don't give a damn, but you decided not to believe it. So what?
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I do not share your optimism

                  You are even more optimistic. Saying about "it's been too long"
                  Quote: ccsr
                  I think that you simply do not own the situation

                  But you own just fine.
                  It was too long (C)

                  Quote: ccsr
                  They understand best the issues of the operation of weapons and military equipment.

                  Ага.
                  And the seller of the store knows better than you what you need to buy

                  The problem is that it exploits the equipment, using it for its intended purpose, not at all zampotech. It refers to collateral. And not even combat, but the rear.

                  And its convenience is the tenth thing.
                4. ccsr 16 March 2020 12: 34 New
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                  Quote: Spade
                  Whole half a year ago?

                  I don’t know what event you are talking about.
                  Quote: Spade
                  The problem is that it exploits the equipment, using it for its intended purpose, not at all zampotech. It refers to collateral. And not even combat, but the rear.
                  And its convenience is the tenth thing.

                  The trouble for some commanders is often that they do not know the capabilities of their equipment, and moreover, they spoil it from illiterate operation even in non-combat conditions - read the Soviet orders of the Ministry of Defense about serious incidents in the troops, there are many examples of such incompetence. Yes, and the Russian army sins this - there are also many examples. Zampotechov is distinguished from commanders primarily by a deeper knowledge of weapons and equipment, and they understand better than others where there were design flaws, and where the flaws of the commanders for training personnel were checked repeatedly over the years of service.
                  Quote: Spade
                  But you own just fine.

                  I can see the errors of some of the local "experts" in the field of weapons and military equipment - I will not hide it, because had a good practice. That’s why I don’t give a damn that the mistakes of the past are not repeated in the current army, and therefore I express an opinion that you are unlikely to refute with arguments.
  • businessv 16 March 2020 00: 31 New
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    Quote: ccsr
    Do you even know that in our SA the annual losses of personnel in everyday life and during the training of troops were higher than the average annual military losses of troops in Afghanistan for the entire period of their stay?

    What years do you mean? In peacetime, during the year we lost soldiers as much as in Afghanistan for 10 years ?! Do not confuse anything? Or forgot to think before they sent? For the entire time our GSVG was located, we lost only 34 people! Each non-combat loss was an army emergency!
    1. ccsr 16 March 2020 12: 45 New
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      Quote: businessv
      In peacetime, during the year we lost soldiers as much as in Afghanistan for 10 years ?! Do not confuse anything?

      I wrote the word "average annuals" especially for you, but you don’t seem to know what this means. In Afghanistan, the average annual losses amounted to less than 1,5 thousand people, but the annual losses in the SA at that time were higher - more than 2 thousand military personnel were killed in the army for various reasons, this was reported in the annual order of the Ministry of Defense. If you weren’t brought by such people, then your level was not the one to know about it.
      Quote: businessv
      For the entire time our GSVG was located, we lost only 34 people!

      I wonder where this figure came from, if only in my memory for six years there were six killed helicopter pilots, and the same number for other reasons - German border guards shot one deserter, one burned out in the control room, one sentry was killed at the post, one died in the capter when he fire, etc. And this is just what I remember offhand, but in fact there were other emergency situations, I just don’t remember everything.
      Quote: businessv
      Each non-combat loss was an army emergency!

      You can not tell me this - I myself buried my colleagues, and I know the whole procedure, starting with the work of the investigators of the unit.
  • svp67 14 March 2020 20: 10 New
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    Quote: Spade
    At exactly

    Exactly ... "Toyot wars" are waged everywhere and it was only here that we decided to oppose them to the "Ural War" ... And all by the fact that we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such "Toyota"
    1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 27 New
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      Quote: svp67
      And all by the fact that we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such "Toyota"

      As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.
      Maybe well him. this "full analogue" ???
      1. svp67 14 March 2020 20: 44 New
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        Quote: Spade
        As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.

        As I understand it, now UABLs are connecting to this process ...
        Quote: Spade
        Maybe well him. this "full analogue" ???

        Honestly it would not hurt, it hurts the "original" is good
        1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 46 New
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          Quote: svp67
          Honestly would not hurt

          Even as prevented.
          Strange thoughts begin to arise in the minds of palkovodtsev.
          Even the UAZ-Patriot managed to call them .....
        2. loki565 14 March 2020 20: 55 New
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          It seems that SAMUM developed, for this purpose, armor and remote control, what else is needed)))

          1. EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 45 New
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            We need to live on this machine, and with this just the truck is much easier, even easier than the armored personnel carrier.
            1. ccsr 16 March 2020 12: 59 New
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              Quote: EvilLion
              and with this just the truck is much simpler, even easier than the armored personnel carrier.

              So I believe that they requested such a machine purely for economic purposes - in the Urals it will be possible to transport foodstuffs, fuel and lubricants, and ammunition, and personnel, and a bunch of problems this machine will solve in the troops that are divorced from our armed forces forces and are far from the homeland. Not every terrorist will risk approaching a convoy where there are such vehicles, even if there is no armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle, and the cost of its maintenance and maintenance is much less than that of armored vehicles.
      2. Victorio 14 March 2020 21: 54 New
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        Quote: Spade
        Quote: svp67
        And all by the fact that we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such "Toyota"

        As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.
        Maybe well him. this "full analogue" ???

        ===
        and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural? somewhere you can / need to use a helicopter, and somewhere you can / need to get along with an equipped truck.
        1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 21: 58 New
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          Quote: Victorio
          and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural?

          And if you compare the "Toyota / Armored Urals" and a naked man with a stone ax?
          1. Victorio 14 March 2020 21: 59 New
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            Quote: Spade
            Quote: Victorio
            and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural?

            And if you compare the "Toyota / Armored Urals" and a naked man with a stone ax?

            ====
            ? compare!
            1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 22: 23 New
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              Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.
              For a helicopter, 270 km / h, roughly a section of 90 kilometers.
              For the "Urals" off-road 30 km / h from the force, roughly a plot of 10 km
              For a man with a stone ax at a force of 15 km / h, roughly a plot of 5 km.

              So what is cheaper, one helicopter, 9 (nine) Urals or 18 stone axes?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. svp67 14 March 2020 22: 33 New
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                Quote: Spade
                So what is cheaper, one helicopter, 9 (nine) Urals or 18 stone axes?

                For any 18 stone axes ... there is no competition ... even iron axes will be more expensive. Another question, which is more efficient?
              3. Graz 15 March 2020 04: 25 New
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                a perfectly economical drone with a pair of low-cost missiles that could hang over the terrain for a long time
                1. svp67 15 March 2020 05: 19 New
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                  Quote: Graz
                  a perfectly economical drone with a pair of low-cost missiles that could hang over the terrain for a long time

                  "Tether balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs
                  1. Misha Honest 15 March 2020 06: 30 New
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                    Quote: svp67
                    "Tether balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

                    laughing Until the first bullet ...
                  2. svp67 15 March 2020 08: 30 New
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                    Quote: Misha Honest
                    Until the first bullet ...

                    Everything will neatly go down ... but the shooter still needs to reach the shot distance along the detection and shelling zone of this device ....
                  3. Misha Honest 16 March 2020 15: 44 New
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                    Quote: svp67
                    but the arrow still needs to reach the shot distance along the detection and shelling zone of this device ....

                    Unless the shooter has the Barret M82, for example, or the Gepard M1 ...
                    I am silent about the size of the balloon and its immobility. Just a target. )
                2. SSR
                  SSR 15 March 2020 09: 45 New
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                  Quote: Misha Honest
                  Quote: svp67
                  "Tether balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

                  laughing Until the first bullet ...

                  Actually, everything is up to the “first bullet”.
                  Generally lost the essence of the discussion. There are various "niches" such as for example the Shell and C400 or the "anti-aircraft gun". The article says that the cart is perfect for the steppes. Kamrad Lopatov writes about helicopters, the question arises: why is the whole army not in helicopters? Or maybe it’s worth immediately replanting everyone from helicopters on the MiG-35, it’s even faster, higher and more powerful, or just a nuclear strike, hundreds of hectares will be cleared from everyone.
                  PS.
                  If you need to sweep the parade ground and they give me a crowbar, then I am sorry for the one who is trying to engage in moronism (to see this nerd syndrome is still strong in the army) and I am sorry for the parade ground.
                3. Lopatov 15 March 2020 13: 04 New
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                  Quote: SSR
                  why is the whole army not in helicopters?

                  No money left.
                4. Mwg
                  Mwg 15 March 2020 19: 00 New
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                  Do not ask stupid questions, there authoritative people authoritatively reason on abstract topics from nightly fantasies during insomnia. You remembered nothing about nuclear weapons, they will now blame the RF Armed Forces for not issuing infantry platoons with portable tactical nuclear munitions.
                5. Misha Honest 16 March 2020 15: 46 New
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                  Quote: SSR
                  Generally lost the essence of the discussion.

                  Yes, I, in general, too. request I just could not remain silent when offered: "Tether balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs laughing
        2. ccsr 15 March 2020 11: 48 New
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          Quote: Spade
          Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.

          These calculations do not work with suicide bombers - they can use non-traditional methods of warfare, including by waiting for individual units to undermine a previously laid mine. And how do you calculate all this
          1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 13: 05 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            With suicide bombers, these calculations do not pass

            Yeah. They bounce, cling to the helicopter wheel and blow themselves up ...
        3. ccsr 15 March 2020 11: 48 New
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          Quote: Spade
          Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.

          These calculations do not work with suicide bombers - they can use non-traditional methods of warfare, including by waiting for individual units to undermine a previously laid mine. And how do you calculate all this, even if you have 5 minutes of reaction time - the unit will be destroyed, and the suicide bomber is unlikely to survive.
          One author answered you correctly:
          The article says that the cart is perfect for the steppes. Kamrad Lopatov writes about helicopters, the question arises, why is the whole army not in helicopters? Or maybe it’s worth immediately replanting everyone from helicopters on the MiG-35, it’s even faster, higher and more powerful, or just a nuclear strike, hundreds of hectares will be cleared from everyone.
  • carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 00 New
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    did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)
    1. Misha Honest 15 March 2020 06: 36 New
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      Quote: carstorm 11
      did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)

      Let's just say - drones have long appeared in the Barmalei.
    2. Lopatov 15 March 2020 08: 55 New
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      +1
      Quote: carstorm 11
      did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)

      From the moment in Libya, "Narot defeated the tyrant."
      Both helicopters and airplanes
  • Den717 15 March 2020 19: 16 New
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    Quote: Spade
    As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.

    You tell about helicopters by the relatives of soldiers of the 6th company 76gvvDD.
    1. EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 43 New
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      Have the helicopters been there? And then there is only one question, where were all the others, and a regiment nearby, and helicopters?
      1. Den717 16 March 2020 10: 25 New
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        Quote: EvilLion
        Have the helicopters been there?

        Here I am about the same ... There is no one universal weapon that defeats everything. First of all, the Head and all the weapons in the complex win.
  • lucul 14 March 2020 20: 44 New
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    Exactly ... "Toyot wars" are waged everywhere and it was only here that we decided to oppose them to the "Ural War" ... And all by the fact that we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such "Toyota"

    And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))
    1. svp67 14 March 2020 20: 45 New
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      Quote: lucul
      And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))

      And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"
      1. lucul 14 March 2020 20: 48 New
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        And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"

        And most importantly - these new cars are crammed with electronics - through which the machine can be remotely blocked, and even found like a mobile phone - but they don’t do it at all)))
      2. Den717 16 March 2020 10: 28 New
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        Quote: svp67
        And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"

        ".... Texas plumber Mark Oberholtzer sued a car dealership in which he exchanged his old working pickup truck for a new car with a surcharge. The car of a 52-year-old man was sold to Turkey, and later fell into the hands of ISIS militants and fell into common they’re video, reports DailyMail. Due to the fact that Mark’s personal data and the phone number of his family company are on the car’s body, he and his family began to receive anonymous threatening calls. Oberholtzer demands $ 1 million in compensation .... " Something like that was stolen ... laughing
    2. ccsr 15 March 2020 11: 53 New
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      Quote: lucul
      And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))

      What sanctions - on the contrary, they created such an advertisement that Toyota will soon take up aviation equipment, there will be a demand for it ...
  • loki565 14 March 2020 20: 49 New
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    Zushka on the thaw is a bust, it’s rocking the Urals, and on the pickup there will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))
    1. Grits 15 March 2020 03: 50 New
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      Quote: loki565
      and the pickup will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))

      But that is exactly how the Arabs fight. They also shoot their Kalash in the sky
    2. svp67 15 March 2020 05: 21 New
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      +1
      Quote: loki565
      Zushka on the thaw is a bust, it’s rocking the Urals, and on the pickup there will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))

      Quote: Gritsa
      But that is exactly how the Arabs fight.



    3. maidan.izrailovich 15 March 2020 07: 16 New
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      Zushka on the thaw is a bust, she shakes the Urals ....

      Yes, well, why are you all stepping on the same rake?
      Already many photos and videos have been published here. Where is the ZSU-23-2 on the Toyota.

      1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 13: 46 New
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        Quote: maidan.izrailovich
        Yes, well, why are you all stepping on the same rake?
        Already many photos and videos have been published here. Where is the ZSU-23-2 on the Toyota.

        The publication of the photograph does not make the ZU-23-2 more accurate on the machine.

    4. The comment was deleted.
  • novobranets 15 March 2020 04: 37 New
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    Quote: svp67
    And all by the fact that we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such "Toyota"

    Something to eat.
  • strannik1985 15 March 2020 05: 41 New
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    That's right ...

    So they tried already; in the First Chechen Region, several SDBs on the Gaz-66 and UAZ-469 were given to motorized rifle regiments, there were losses, the cars were “armored” with sandbags and that helped little. One battalion was sent to guard the airdrome in Mozdok, and the rest in the RPD.
    1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 08: 59 New
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      Quote: strannik1985
      So they tried already, in the First Chechen several DSB on Gaz-66 and UAZ-469 were given to motorized rifle regiments

      These were the Kamyshin, they were not given to anyone.
  • carstorm 11 14 March 2020 22: 58 New
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    nothing forced. in the conditions of deserts and steppes it is an ideal option. quick deployment. fast moving. however, one factor that everyone misses is that it is not possible to immediately recognize a simple truck as a dangerous target. service in any conditions. transportable ammunition. ease of use. they replay the APC in everything, which is essentially not intended for these purposes. Forcibly, this is just the use of armored personnel carriers not for their intended purpose as a firing point.
    1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 09: 14 New
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      Quote: carstorm 11
      nothing forced. in the conditions of deserts and steppes it is an ideal option.

      BTR is better.

      Quote: carstorm 11
      identify a simple truck as a dangerous target

      "in the conditions of the steppes and deserts" it will be possible at the same ranges. as the armored personnel carrier.

      Quote: carstorm 11
      they replay the armored personnel carrier in everything

      In vulnerability, in the absence of basic comfort.
      But the rest is very, very controversial.

      Quote: carstorm 11
      the use of armored personnel carriers is not intended for use as a firing point.

      ?????
  • prapor55 15 March 2020 05: 45 New
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    We have a huge number of cases from BTR-60,70. The Muromtsevsky plant put a diesel engine on them with a minimum alteration of the hull, I believe that as a fire support vehicle it will be cheaper and no worse.
  • Den717 15 March 2020 19: 03 New
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    Quote: Spade
    Something they really began to inadequate. Issuing a coercive measure as a “best practice” is a great deal.

    Those who, in your words, began to "inadequate," went through Syria, and not on TV. Your interlocutor called this experience “advanced”, and not those who decided to apply this experience. I do not think that you are better than having worked your term in Syria, you know how and how to fight with bandits, such as ISIS, now gathered in heaps in northern Afghanistan. You do not like the idea of ​​the Ural-tachanka? Suggest yours. Verified by real military operations of the corresponding specifics.
  • kjhg 14 March 2020 19: 53 New
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    Quote: ABM
    So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body

    If in unmanned vehicles, then you can.
  • vik669 15 March 2020 00: 05 New
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    KamAZ began testing an unmanned truck
  • cniza 14 March 2020 19: 10 New
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    The new technique will be used against the favorite weapon of the militants - "jihad mobiles".


    Looks like we're getting ready for a possible invasion from Afghanistan.
    1. seregatara1969 14 March 2020 19: 13 New
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      So the whole world wants to control us. You have to dodge.
    2. NEXUS 14 March 2020 19: 18 New
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      Quote: cniza
      Looks like we're getting ready for a possible invasion from Afghanistan.

      No, I don’t think ... the war has become very multi-level, from tactical missile attacks and drone attacks, and ending with martyr mobiles. I think that the data are relatively cheap, specifically for countering shahid mobiles. Besides, why not take over the experience of dushmans in particular with regard to the mobility of light percussion instruments.
      1. knn54 14 March 2020 20: 10 New
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        The Yankees are leaving Afghanistan, so you have to be prepared.
        And recalling the proverb “against scrap, scrap, the reception,” I think the decision is right. Against a jihad mobile, you need to have tools not less mobile, but also more protected and with more powerful weapons.
        There are either unprotected trucks or heavy APCs in the army, so armored trucks are also needed.
        1. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 20: 45 New
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          Quote: knn54
          against scrap scrap reception

          Well, you need to have a crowbar, not a rotten stick
          If the enemy runs with a flintlock pistol, this does not mean that you need to throw away your machine gun and also look for a flintlock pistol

          Quote: knn54
          Against a jihad mobile, one must have means no less mobile, but also more protected and with more powerful weapons.

          are these these carts - more protected and armed than armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles ???

          Quote: knn54
          either heavy armored personnel carriers

          let's estimate. If the Ural-4320 is hung with armor and put ZU-23-2 with ammunition, then the mass of this armored car will come close to the BTR-80 or BMP-2. Having much worse all other indicators.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 02 New
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              competent placement of funds with clear sectors of fire solves all issues.
          2. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 20 New
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            except ZSU with its wild rate of fire and fire density, you can cram a bunch of everything else into the truck. grenade launchers and machine guns will not take up much space. while further increasing the density of the fire and increasing its sector.
            1. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 23: 34 New
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              sorry, but it’s painful for a child’s comment, didn’t even want to answer ..
              .
              Quote: carstorm 11
              you can put in a truck ... a bunch of everything else. grenade launchers and machine guns will not take up much space. while further increasing the density of fire

              yeah, as well as a couple of cruise missiles and (just in case) at least one ICBM
              Calculate all this magnificence in a stack until the free volume is completely filled.
              Put ammunition tightly on three trailers.

              Quote: carstorm 11
              competent placement of funds with clear sectors of fire solves all issues

              does not solve. Could solve, but only one - with sectors of fire. But in order for it (the sector) to be large enough, the armament in our case should be placed rather high (do not forget, we put the armament in the truck, and also armored). There are no problems with sectors on infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers - they have a tower (or combat module) of circular rotation on the roof, there is no cab and it does not interfere. With a truck, such a feint will not work. Or you get a Frankenstein with a high center of gravity, which is very bad for the whole "self-propelled" as a whole.
              1. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 51 New
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                I beg of you. put a few tubes and a machine gun with bk will it take a lot of space for you?) this is pretty compact iron for such machines. as for the armored personnel carrier sector, this is good of course only it has a smaller viewing angle. and you do not take into account the fact that this machine is simply needed as the carrier of the ZSU. whose effectiveness in terms of the density of fire of the armored personnel carrier stupidly will not. at the same time, again, do not forget that OFZ this gun has at a speed of 980 meters per second .. you take as a basis exactly the anti-aircraft installation and its capabilities and not the truck.
          3. ccsr 15 March 2020 12: 01 New
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            Quote: Gregory_45
            let's estimate. If the Ural-4320 is hung with armor and put ZU-23-2 with ammunition, then the mass of this armored car will come close to the BTR-80 or BMP-2. Having much worse all other indicators.

            You just don’t take into account one thing - under the armored personnel carrier and infantry fighting vehicles, a serious rembase is needed, but the Urals can be serviced at ordinary automobile enterprises, which reduces the cost of operating and training personnel. I think that this model is specially prepared for our Central Asia in order to supply them with a cheap tool for the war against the Islamists, knowing their insolvency. Perhaps other countries with similar problems will be interested in them - this is also possible. Let me remind you that Soviet amphibious tanks were very much in demand in some countries of Southeast Asia, and are still in service there.
      2. cniza 14 March 2020 22: 27 New
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        Quote: NEXUS
        I think the data are relatively cheap tools specifically for countering shahid mobiles.


        So I about it, it's time to use the money wisely ...
    3. loki565 15 March 2020 08: 00 New
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      And what is Venezuela getting ready ???))) by the way the Kamaz armored cabin
  • Honest Citizen 14 March 2020 19: 11 New
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    Quote: ABM
    Here are the best practices! So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body

    I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.
    And the less blood will be shed by our soldiers, yes in the same Syria, then this should only be welcomed.
    1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 19: 25 New
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      Quote: Honest Citizen
      I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.

      If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse
      1. Honest Citizen 14 March 2020 19: 28 New
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        If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse

        Those. this must be understood as "for lack of a mistress and a cook will descend?"
        So why then they write in the news that the first parties have already arrived? If they differ only for the worse?
        1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 19: 32 New
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          Quote: Honest Citizen
          Those. this must be understood as "for lack of a mistress and a cook will descend?"

          This must be understood as "portraying violent activity"
          And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored
          1. Tank hard 14 March 2020 21: 18 New
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            Quote: Spade
            This must be understood as "portraying violent activity"
            And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored

            Who are you writing to? Offended by the power hard worker from a metallurgical plant? However, if you want, then spend an educational program, but I think - will not appreciate it. request
          2. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 42 New
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            the whole mistake in the judgments is that everyone is attached to the trucks, forgetting that he is just a carrier for ZSU. it is in this installation that the whole thing is. it is on her that the emphasis is placed on her rate of fire and density of fire.
            1. Lopatov 15 March 2020 09: 18 New
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              Quote: carstorm 11
              for ZSU. it is in this installation that the whole thing is. it is on her that the emphasis is placed on her rate of fire and density of fire.

              All right.
              Then what is the advantage of the old ZU-23-2 over, for example, the 30-mm 2A72 with the thermal imaging combined TKN-4GA-03
          3. Grits 15 March 2020 04: 04 New
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            Quote: Spade
            And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored

            But on the account of the "armored" I agree - this will already be an excess. Then it’s better to armored personnel carrier
      2. alexmach 14 March 2020 20: 37 New
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        BTR-82a for a normal BTR will come down? What is the question then, they are enough in the army.
        1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 44 New
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          Quote: alexmach
          BTR-82a for a normal BTR will come down?

          Even the BTR-70 or BTR-60 with a tower from the BTR-80 is better than the ZU-23-2 on a truck
      3. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 25 New
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        probably for the same reason in Afghanistan ZSU put on shishigi and drove along with armored personnel carriers for escort. here are stupid people ...
        1. loki565 15 March 2020 07: 50 New
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          It was the case, some even got on the video)))
          1. Mwg
            Mwg 15 March 2020 19: 11 New
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            Thanks for this video.
            1. your1970 16 March 2020 21: 39 New
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              and what chic roads they built there ... eh ...
      4. Grits 15 March 2020 04: 03 New
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        Quote: Spade
        If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse

        It is clear that the efficiency of the truck is worse. But there is a significant plus - the cost! One armored personnel carrier in cost will be like several Urals from ZSU loaded on them. And with the easy movement of several hands, they again turn into trucks with their own functionality - to carry goods, people, to be a tractor.
    2. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 20: 03 New
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      Quote: Honest Citizen
      but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walker, then it is necessary to apply.

      Do you really think that these "carts" are more effective than armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles? If in Syria they ride such people, it’s not because they are the height of military thought, but because there is no other
      How do you imagine such a picture. “Friends” sent normal cars to the barmaleys, and they: - Nah, don’t need your bullshit, right now, Mahmoud will weld a tripod under the DShK to my toyota - there will be a dummy, and let's go, let us show them all!

      I understand when militants ride this trash. But we are! Army, or who?

      On this ersatz technique there are neither normal sights, nor night vision devices, nor thermal imagers, you can shoot only from a stop - yes, a minus car and a small cart. Of the advantages, only one is the cost. And then it’s not a fact if their corporation does any factory
      1. Tank hard 14 March 2020 21: 20 New
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        Quote: Gregory_45
        Do you really think that these "carts" are more effective than armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles?

        He does not understand... wink
      2. carstorm 11 14 March 2020 23: 27 New
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        for sure. and at the same time, the latest tornadoes, not ancient cities, are driven there. saving such saving)
    3. Tank hard 14 March 2020 21: 15 New
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      Quote: Honest Citizen
      I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.

      To each his own. A steelworker and a worker from a metallurgical plant ( who you are) - crowbar, in order to break through the summer, and the military - his own. Do not write about what you absolutely do not understand. Continue your favorite, throw on the fan against the power. wink
      1. Mwg
        Mwg 15 March 2020 19: 13 New
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        Oh, but then everything flies on the other side ...
  • iouris 14 March 2020 19: 12 New
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    Back to the Future!
  • Vasyan1971 14 March 2020 19: 17 New
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    Moreover, the protection of armored personnel carriers is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and in terms of firepower one truck can even surpass armored personnel carriers

    armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than cars.

    As there is in advertising: "Why pay more if there is no difference?".
  • IGOR GORDEEV 14 March 2020 19: 21 New
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    You can use the Tiger armored car with a remotely controlled machine gun or grenade launcher. Expensive?
    1. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 19: 52 New
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      Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
      You can use the Tiger armored car with a remotely controlled machine gun or grenade launcher.

      To protect the base, generally stationary installations can be used. Screw the KPVT, ATGM or turret from an old tank to the concrete structure. Hit by ATGMs or a 125-mm shell to any jihad mobile is a guaranteed pass to heaven.
      1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 20: 30 New
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        Quote: Gregory_45
        To protect the base, generally stationary installations can be used.


        Portable platform with remote control PPTU
  • Sergey Averchenkov 14 March 2020 19: 21 New
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    My God, there were such people back in Afghanistan, I shot and there are photos ... not digital, but real ones - developer, fixer.
    1. rich 14 March 2020 19: 39 New
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      Oh my god, those were still in Afghanistan

      Here is such a photo, though the quality is not really. Sand bags fell on the sides, at least some protection
    2. Fedorov 14 March 2020 20: 18 New
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      And the paper "Unibrom," Photobrom, "or" Bromportret?
      Well, to be honest - I respect for the service, I didn’t have time to climb in Afghanistan by age, only in the Caucasus, however, I appeared there from a sperm in the mountains. Mother came to the ski track from Siberia, and Dad rummaged through the mountains, champion of the USSR, rescuer.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov 15 March 2020 02: 23 New
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        Serving the Soviet Union. :)
    3. Tank hard 14 March 2020 21: 22 New
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      Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
      Oh my god, there were such people back in Afghanistan, he shot and there are photos ... not digital, but real ones - developer, fixer

      I have a verse about guys, I wrote it from the heart, I'll write it by the date here. hi
  • Warrior MorePhoto 14 March 2020 19: 30 New
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    In theory, as a PR move for the purchase of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. The cost is relatively not expensive, the training is minimal, there are production capacities, versatility in installing weapons, a large range in comparison with tanks and armored personnel carriers ...
    In general, it is correct, and given the fact that testing in a hot climate is only good.
  • 113262a 14 March 2020 19: 38 New
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    This is the bottom! And they were kidding over the non-brothers! (((This is all due to lack of hope and hopelessness. Is it instead of BMPT? It’s VERY budgetary! We had such a thing at 14, when militiamen with shovels from shovels stood at many roadblocks!
  • Finn 14 March 2020 19: 40 New
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    It is unlikely that they will trample from Afghanistan. Where you have to shove stones pebble meter per meter like sand in the sandbox. Trails and roads can be controlled. Bypassing is not real. Through shimkent it is possible, but our base is on the way.
  • Leonidowww 14 March 2020 19: 43 New
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    Modernization, however .... well forgotten ...
    1. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 21: 25 New
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      Quote: Leonidowww
      Modernization, however .... well forgotten ...

      Yeah, it remains to remember about the stone-throwers ...
  • Old partisan 14 March 2020 19: 45 New
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    Shaitan arba + zu23-2 someone reminds me of that. Only on shishig
  • Fishery 14 March 2020 19: 48 New
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    I think the trucks will respond more quickly, and maybe even a better overview and cram heavier weapons, everything is tailored to barmaley
  • Grigory_45 14 March 2020 19: 48 New
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    The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan.
    and in Chechnya artificially armored Urals were used. All this - not from a good life, but from the banal lack of normal "armor".

    But these ersatz-mobiles are given to us for breakthrough technologies, for "very effective means", the "highest efficiency" of which is "proved by battles" !. Where are we going, gentlemen? What do we have, armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles are over, that they are forced (moreover, by industry!) To rivet these under-armored vehicles ???

    You can go even further, and again recall the "best" experience of wars (starting from the First World War), and instead of armor lining trucks with logs and sanding sandbags. Fortunately, we still have wood and sand ...
    1. MMX
      MMX 15 March 2020 15: 27 New
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      Yes, there’s nothing to discuss. Degradation.
    2. ccsr 15 March 2020 17: 05 New
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      Quote: Gregory_45
      But these ersatz-mobiles are given to us for breakthrough technologies, for "very effective means", the "highest efficiency" of which is "proved by battles" !.

      Are you sure that these cars are intended for arming the Russian army? Can any of the local "experts" say that they plan to include them in the staff of motorized rifle units or have they seen a weapons program scheduled for ten years, which indicates the delivery of this equipment to the troops? I think that basically there is a chatter about the usual development, which was done on an order for sale and no more.
      1. Grigory_45 15 March 2020 17: 32 New
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        Quote: ccsr
        Are you sure that these cars are intended for arming the Russian army? Can any of the local "experts" say that they plan to include them in the staff of motorized rifle units or have they seen a weapons program scheduled for ten years, which indicates the delivery of this equipment to the troops? I think that basically there is a chatter about the usual development, which was done on an order for sale and no more.

        read the article (did you read it at all ???):
        Russian military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan will receive the KamAZ and Ural armored vehicles with enhanced armor protection. On their board will be placed a variety of weapons - from heavy machine guns to anti-tank systems.
        According to Izvestia with reference to the Ministry of Defense, several units equipped with new equipment will be deployed at the military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in the "Afghan" direction by the end of 2022 ... The first armored trucks have already arrived at Kant air base in Kyrgyzstan and at 201 th military base in Tajikistan.
        1. ccsr 15 March 2020 17: 51 New
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          Quote: Gregory_45
          read the article (did you read it at all ???):

          I inform all "experts" that the adoption of equipment is a certain procedure that requires not only an act of the State Commission, but also an order from the Minister of Defense to take into service and including these items on the staff card.
          But there are also operational orders of equipment and weapons, which provide for a simplified procedure for the supply of such equipment, without including it in the state, i.e. to solve temporary problems. So I’m informing you that what you are talking about is unlikely to be included in the states of our motorized rifle units, and I am sure of that. By the way, they showed a photograph from Afghanistan with similar equipment made in artisanal conditions, and which was never adopted by the SA. It will be the same now - they will supply several dozens of such machines and no more. Alternatively, I think that they will supply it to our Central Asian republics, because it is cheaper and they will be able to buy it. In general, as I believe, a large amount of memory and ammunition accumulated in the central warehouses of the GRAU, and our sages quickly decided to bung such a car in order to drive it to where armed conflicts are. Nice idea, by the way ...
          1. Grigory_45 15 March 2020 18: 15 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            I inform any "experts"

            that this equipment will be listed on the balance of the Ministry of Defense, since it will need to be serviced (write off fuel and lubricants and ammunition, purchase spare parts, etc.)
            Since we are not dealing with handicraft production, the Moscow Region and a certain Russian company must sign a contract for the supply of these gantraks.
            In fact, it makes no difference whether the car is in service or not. For this situation, this does not change anything. There is equipment, and it will be operated by the Russian military in these regions.

            Quote: ccsr
            In general, as I believe, a large amount of memory and ammunition accumulated in the central warehouses of the GRAU, and our sages quickly decided to bung such a car in order to drive it to where armed conflicts are.

            Home-made entry-level crafts (DShK or ZU-23-2 in the back), local craftsmen will assemble themselves. There would be a chassis and weapons. There is nothing complicated in welding or fastening the beds to the chassis, absolutely.
            If you are for cars like "Samum", then none of those whom you are going to "bet" will not buy it, because of a decent price. This is not a Toyota with a machine gun.
            1. ccsr 15 March 2020 18: 27 New
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              Quote: Gregory_45
              that this equipment will be listed on the balance of the Ministry of Defense, since it will need to be serviced (write off fuel and lubricants and ammunition, purchase spare parts, etc.)

              And what from this? We even had balloons in service, and not as air defense systems, but for communication repeaters.
              Quote: Gregory_45
              In fact, it makes no difference whether the car is in service or not.

              Nothing of the kind - where are you going to get regular equipment? Or put one fighter at once for two bagels?
              Quote: Gregory_45
              Home-made entry-level crafts (DShK or ZU-23-2 in the back), local craftsmen will assemble themselves.

              And they’ll go around themselves with the armor plates, and will they make the ammunition for themselves too?
              Quote: Gregory_45
              This is not a Toyota with a machine gun.

              Actually, Toyota is not worth a penny, and its carrying capacity is too small to seriously pull it from the ZU-23-2 mm in the Urals. They explained to you here that recoil greatly sways the wheelbase, and aimed fire is difficult to conduct.
              1. Grigory_45 15 March 2020 19: 03 New
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                Quote: ccsr
                where are you going to get regular equipment?

                address the question of the Russian Ministry of Defense. It is their idea to replace full-time armor with dumbbells.

                Quote: ccsr
                And they’ll go around themselves with armored plates

                sheathe the same)

                Quote: ccsr
                and they’ll make their own ammunition for themselves too?

                and where did they take it and take it before? Are they delivered from the airborne forces from Russia? To get hold of former Soviet weapons in the post-Soviet space (and not only) is not a problem at all.

                Quote: ccsr
                They explained to you here

                They didn’t explain to me. And I don’t have to explain it. And here it’s worth it. Toyota with a machine gun is a collective image of ersatz cars assembled from at least real Toyota, even from other pickups and trucks. Arab uncles Mahmuds.
                Quote: ccsr
                Actually, Toyota is not worth a penny

                Are you sure that the baboons are buying them at official dealerships?))

                The whole thing is that such gangsters do, did and will do. Those who do not have normal armor (armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, armored vehicles). If there will be money for them, then they will not need your trucks with memory.
                And Samum too. Because the installation is remote with a pretty good sighting system. And it will cost like a dozen assembled on a knee Toyota with a machine gun
                1. ccsr 15 March 2020 19: 21 New
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                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  address the question of the Russian Ministry of Defense. It is their idea to replace full-time armor with dumbbells.

                  In fact, they did not say that this was a substitute - do not attribute what is not in sight.

                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  Toyota with a machine gun is a collective image of ersatz cars assembled from at least real Toyota, even from other pickups and trucks. Arab uncles Mahmuds.

                  Do you suggest that we go along their path, not taking into account the shortcomings of these homemade products? By the way, as with tire inflation on these Tayotas - do not tell by chance?
                  Quote: Gregory_45
                  If there will be money for them, then they will not need your trucks with memory.

                  The fact of the matter is that they have no money, here our cheap equipment will probably find its buyer.
                  1. Grigory_45 15 March 2020 19: 34 New
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                    Quote: ccsr
                    In fact, they did not say that it was a substitute

                    read the article (for the umpteenth time):
                    The military department explained that such armored trucks are especially effective against pickups with weapons installed by militants ... Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers


                    PS for the future - read carefully. And sleep, or something, you don’t seem quite adequate (this applies to the part of the writing that you did not comment on).
                    1. ccsr 15 March 2020 19: 42 New
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                      Quote: Gregory_45
                      PS for the future - read carefully.

                      This is just a statement to the press, and you have already seen a radical change in staff - this is not even mentioned. Well, they will be replaced FOR TIME, and even then, only in parts of one small unit to solve some narrow tasks, and you have already fantasized about all the armed forces.
                      Quote: Gregory_45
                      And sleep, or something, you don’t seem quite adequate

                      You, too, do not look like a sane, even being sleepy.
  • Po-tzan 14 March 2020 19: 55 New
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    The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

    Where's the boomerang aramt?
    1. MMX
      MMX 15 March 2020 15: 28 New
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      Quote: PO-tzan
      The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

      Where's the boomerang aramt?


      They are expensive. Weapons of the last century are cheaper. The calculator counted.
  • g_ae 14 March 2020 19: 57 New
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    I remember here at VO there was so much humor and fun about the Ukrainian prodigies, but here such an “analogue”.
  • Cats 14 March 2020 20: 15 New
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    [Quote
    Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than vehicles. Moreover, the protection of armored personnel carriers is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and with respect to firepower, one truck can even surpass armored personnel carriers,
    ] [/ Quote]

    Boo ha ha!
    On a light armored truck, there is no possibility of circular shelling - no, stabilization of weapons - no, optoelectronics (thermal imager, noctovisor, etc.) - no, protection against WMD - no, no waterfowl properties. One advantage is the price. It seems that effective managers managed to crawl into the Moscow Region.
  • Grigory_45 14 March 2020 20: 24 New
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    April 2019, Yekaterinburg. On the streets - these are the "dumbbells" with DShK (!!!) and ZU-23-2. Apparently, they were preparing for a long time ...

    1. Fishery 14 March 2020 20: 41 New
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      most likely it didn’t work for anyone to sell)))) they’ve come up with some ideas
  • satelit24 14 March 2020 20: 42 New
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    finally did a new prodigy) even though there was enough money for it)
  • Observer2014 14 March 2020 20: 42 New
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    "Carts" bully wink Well then, the word was remembered bully
  • Humpty 14 March 2020 20: 48 New
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    "In the steppes of Central Asia, powerful cars can drive without roads at all, and they have twice the power reserve than armored vehicles."

    An amazing conclusion. I wonder whose idea it is? With the steppes, it somehow did not grow together either in Tajikistan or in Kyrgyzstan. They seem to be there, but they are completely cultivated - villages, fields, kitchen gardens, gardens, irrigation ditches, canals. There are tundra in Kyrgyzstan, far from Kant, not on the way to Tajikistan. If the Americans really come out of Afghanistan, then the barmaley may have artisanal planes like in Syria. Adequate air defense may not be out of place. Also, installations of the type "Vienna" would be very relevant, but do they have someone other than the army of Azerbaijan?
    1. Grigory_45 14 March 2020 21: 13 New
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      Quote: Humpty
      at barmaley can appear artisanal planes as in Syria. Adequate air defense may not be out of place

      Moscow Region will allocate a couple of dozen quadruples of Maxims and heels of DShK, on ​​the same trucks. What is the strike power, such is the air defense - so as not to stand out
  • K-50 14 March 2020 21: 01 New
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    The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan.

    Then, for starters, it was worth remembering that such "devices" were first used for installing Lender guns as air defense in the First World War, as well as anti-aircraft machine-gun mounts of four "maxims" and 37-mm guns during World War II. hi
  • uhu189 14 March 2020 21: 25 New
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    If they were like reinforcement - it would probably be clear - an additional mobile firing point. But in the text they go as a replacement for armored personnel carriers. It’s not for me to judge of course, but somehow it looks wild
  • Andrey VOV 14 March 2020 21: 29 New
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    Quote: Spade
    Quote: alexmach
    So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

    Helicopter.
    To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
    For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor

    Do you seriously think that more, but not inside, in the same Afghanistan and Chechnya went because of the lack of air conditioning ???
    1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 21: 40 New
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      Quote: Andrey VOV
      Do you seriously think that more, but not inside, in the same Afghanistan and Chechnya went because of the lack of air conditioning ???

      Naturally.
      And also "patamushto boring."
      Well, for some, the vestibular is weak and starts to feel sick in the landing

      As for "watch," "survive undermining," do not listen to the lapweights.
      Because as soon as rain or snow, everything from the armor creeps into the landing. As soon as they fired, everyone from the armor crawls into the landing.
      When, in 693 SMEs near Bamut, the BMP antenna removed the banner, for a month there was no one on the armor.

      And fairy tales on the topic "why am I not able to drive my subordinates to the right place" can tell you a lot ...
      1. Andrey VOV 14 March 2020 21: 52 New
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        Tales for grandchildren
        1. Lopatov 14 March 2020 22: 02 New
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          Quote: Andrey VOV
          Tales for grandchildren

          Good argument
          laughing laughing laughing

          Are you hoping to change reality this way?
          1. Andrey VOV 15 March 2020 06: 22 New
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            No, I will bring up my grandchildren as normal
  • spectr 14 March 2020 22: 09 New
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    Financing is either cut off or redistributed. Here are the warriors and are looking for how to ensure acceptable combat readiness on the remnants.
  • Chaldon48 14 March 2020 22: 20 New
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    Quote: SSR
    Quote: Spade
    Issuing a coercive measure as a “best practice” is a great deal.

    That is, is it a necessary measure or bust? If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?
    The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust? I honestly want to understand.

    And the fact is that if at such a "point" if you do not use a remotely controlled module, the shooting crew will be open to all winds, and will be subject not only to a riot of elements, rain and snow, but also easily shot as a machine gun burst due to an ambush or a sniper.
  • for
    for 14 March 2020 22: 24 New
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    +3


    And there is much more that has been forgotten.
  • Cowbra 14 March 2020 22: 33 New
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    What is this ... the USA is adopting the HUSHIT achievements ...
    To this end, the US military budget for 2021 provides for the formation in the marine corps of mobile batteries for land-based anti-ship systems based on the Oshkosh JLTV wheeled armored vehicle. Raytheon Corporation, together with the Norwegian company Kongsberg, has developed a system for launching NSM (Naval Strike Missile) anti-ship missiles with a range of 3 to 185 kilometers.

    As planned by the command, the mobile units of the marine corps will be able to secretly land on the islands to organize anti-ship ambushes there. Such tactics have proven themselves in the partisan formations of the Hussites in Yemen against the Saudi and Emirate fleets. Now it intends to take over and the US Marine Corps.

    So you understand where the US budget and the Hussites? But such a "strategy" says one thing - the US Navy is no longer able to fight anyone - now the Marines themselves will be for it
    1. Chaldon48 15 March 2020 00: 55 New
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      Let them learn to swim in flippers, and oo are used to sitting in cabins!
  • Old26 14 March 2020 22: 59 New
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    Quote: Gregory_45
    April 2019, Yekaterinburg. On the streets - these are the "dumbbells" with DShK (!!!) and ZU-23-2. Apparently, they were preparing for a long time ...


    Last year's parade in Stavropol included Kamazs with ZU-23-2 units from the 34th motorized rifle mountain brigade. A few years earlier, KAMAZ trucks with mortars installed in the back were at the parade ...
    In some situations, such machines are more profitable than regular armor. Here it is necessary without fanaticism. Now, as far as I heard, in a pair of mountain brigades of the okrug, units are being formed that will be equipped (not completely the battalions, but only part of them) and UAZ-Patriot vehicles with modules installed on them (KKP, ATGM, MANPADS.)
  • yfast 14 March 2020 23: 07 New
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    These cars need elite carriers and elite shooters. 9.
  • Protos 15 March 2020 00: 17 New
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    Ukrainians have quarantined ... everything is in bricks with V @ cp @ li uho laughing
  • Grits 15 March 2020 03: 41 New
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    Quote: SSR
    The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust?

    Moreover, you can remove the ZSUShka from the truck and it again turns from a combat vehicle into a regular vehicle with its own functions. But does it make sense to book a truck?
  • Shuttle 15 March 2020 09: 25 New
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    - Eh, the Rostachka tachanka! Our pride and beauty!
  • Camille 15 March 2020 11: 32 New
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    And why is it proud? Even with broads, the armor is stronger
    1. Shuttle 18 March 2020 13: 08 New
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      Quote: Camille
      And why is it proud? Even with broads, the armor is stronger

      Is a song. fellow
  • sanik2020 15 March 2020 12: 38 New
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    In Afghanistan, the army was also equipped with advanced weapons, but much turned out to be useless.
    So I had to hurry to invent something to which the minds of designers and generals did not reach, one METLA which was worth it.
    1. ccsr 15 March 2020 17: 08 New
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      Quote: sanik2020
      So I had to hurry to invent something to which the minds of designers and generals did not reach, one METLA which was worth it.

      Yes, this was the case, and indeed then a lot had to be changed in different equipment and weapons. But this was due to the fact that the Soviet Army was not preparing for a large-scale war in mountain conditions, and therefore what was in service simply did not meet those conditions, because the army was mainly prepared for two theater of operations - the European and the Far Eastern.
  • Alexfly 15 March 2020 13: 09 New
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    But there is not enough mind to cover the shooters from the oncoming fire ....
  • seagull 16 March 2020 02: 40 New
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    ZUSHKI 23E on 66 "lawns" were popular back in the 1st Chechen .... Boards were "armored" with sandbags and "armor" on top of the doors. In less than 25 years, the experience to think about ...
    1. EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 40 New
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      It is not a matter of deliberation; all this has long been known; it is precisely the introduction of purely counterguerrilla means in the army, sharpened for a great war.
  • EvilLion 16 March 2020 08: 39 New
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    Gan-truck is eternal, especially since in the absence of WMD and threats of shelling from buildings, you can do without a completely closed building.