The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

Russian military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan will receive the KamAZ and Ural armored vehicles with enhanced armor protection. On their board will be placed a variety of weapons - from heavy machine guns to anti-tank systems. New technique will be used against the favorite weapons militants - "jihad mobiles."

According to Izvestia with reference to the Ministry of Defense, several units equipped with new equipment will be deployed at the military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in the "Afghan" direction by the end of 2022, a decision on this has already been made. The first armored trucks have already arrived at the Kant air base in Kyrgyzstan and at the 201st military base in Tajikistan.

The military department explained that such armored trucks are especially effective against pickup trucks with installed weapons. On such "jihad mobiles", militants mount heavy machine guns, recoilless guns and even launchers of NURS - unguided missile shells. In the Middle East, these pickups are very effective, for example, in Syria, militants on such off-road vehicles with rapid attacks twice captured Palmyra, and Iraq - Mosul.

Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than vehicles. Moreover, the protection of the armored personnel carrier is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and in terms of firepower one truck can even surpass the armored personnel carrier, depending on what weapons it is installed on. In the steppes of Central Asia, powerful cars can drive without roads at all, and they have twice the power reserve than armored vehicles.

The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan. Often such mobile firing points were made by hand, with their own hands. Now the trucks will come already with established reinforced reservations.

Comments

[ABM]

Here are the best practices! So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body

[Lopatov]

Quote: ABM

Here are the best practices!

That's right.
Something they really started to inadequate. To pass off a compulsory measure as "best practice" is too much.

[SSR]

Quote: Spade

To pass off a compulsory measure as "best practice" is too much.

That is, is it a necessary measure or bust? If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?
The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust? I honestly want to understand.

[Marconi41]

Quote from S.S.R.

What's the bust?

In speed! Wheelbarrows in bearded people are good because they ride fast. He shot and quickly dumped, and what speed of a loaded truck is what, but its height? Just a training target for PTRovets.

[businessv]

Quote: Marconi41

He shot and quickly dumped, and what speed of a loaded truck is what, but its height? Just a training target for PTRovets.

This target, with memory 23-2, can pick up any pickup with 12 mm before it opens fire, and a roomy truck can take 4 times more ammunition than the same pickup! So you're wrong, colleague!

[kapitan92]

Quote: businessv

This target, with memory 23-2, can pick up any pickup with 12 mm before it opens fire, and a roomy truck can take 4 times more ammunition than the same pickup! So you're wrong, colleague!

What are you a colleague about? Did you fight, or learn from the couch?
This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a certain theater of operations. Similar in Syria, it worked very well, efficiently and cheaply.
To buy back ???? So you have to get in first!

[businessv]

Quote: kapitan92

What are you a colleague about? Did you fight, or learn from the couch?
This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a certain theater of operations. Similar in Syria, it worked very well, efficiently and cheaply.
To buy back ???? So you have to get in first!

He fought when they still didn’t put DShK on pickups. To get with a rate of 2000 rounds per minute and a caliber of 23 mm is easier than with 125 rounds per minute and 12,5 mm, as the results of such an attack are incomparable, as well as the scope of such weapons. Before you write, first learn the materiel!

[kapitan92]

Quote: businessv

He fought when they still didn’t put DShK on pickups.

Gazmanov's son sang a couple of songs in Syria, and is already a member of the "combat", with all the benefits.

Quote: businessv

To get with a rate of 2000 rounds per minute and a caliber of 23 mm is easier than with 125 rounds per minute and 12,5 mm, as the results of such an attack are incomparable, as well as the scope of such weapons. Before you write, first learn the materiel!

You first read my post carefully, and then get clever. . For you duplicate.

This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a certain theater of operations. Similar in Syria, it worked very well, efficiently and cheaply.

[businessv]

Quote: kapitan92

This is an effective weapon, on a good base, I mean Toyota, for a certain theater of operations. Similar in Syria, it worked very well, efficiently and cheaply.

As for Gazmanov, you know better, apparently your circle of talkers and parasites. In my first post, I wrote a comparison of weapons, as in the second, more detailed. It is foolish of you to write obvious things. I read everything carefully. You again answered my post with your nonsense. Both on the first and on the second. You are a demagogue and provocateur.

[kapitan92]

Quote: businessv

. You are a demagogue and provocateur

Glad your arguments are over, warrior!

[businessv]

Quote: kapitan92

Glad your arguments are over, warrior!

I’m doubly happy for you, demagogue!

[Insurgent]

Quote: Marconi41

Just a training target for PTRovets.

Obviously for the ATGM?

[SSR]

Quote: Marconi41

In speed! Wheelbarrows in bearded people are good because they ride fast. He shot and quickly fell down,

The speed of a loaded pickup truck also decreases.))) How is this option?

[EvilLion]

For ATGMs, there is not much difference that the truck is that of the APCs, but the gangs have ATGM complexes in short supply.

[Lopatov]

Quote from S.S.R.

If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?

You need to sweep the parade ground. No brooms, one crowbar. Throw a crowbar. A stickman approaches you and for your convenience hands you .... chrome scrap. Stating that this is a wise innovation, allowing you to better clean it from dust after work.
This is a bust.

[alexmach]

So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

[Lopatov]

Quote: alexmach

So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

Helicopter.
To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor

[alexmach]

In perplexity I spread my hands, so there is everything, it seems .. well, except that without an air conditioner, but this should be solved ..

[Lopatov]

Quote: alexmach

so there is everything like ..

Good point ...

It's just that someone is used to actively depicting it instead of real work. And examples of such actions in the RF Ministry of Defense are just a sea.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Spade

Helicopter.
To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor

And how do you explain then that as soon as our army begins to fight somewhere, army craftsmen immediately begin to install 23-mm anti-aircraft guns in truck bodies? This army home-made in the photo from Chechnya is at least something to eat. Aiv Afgan even adapted Shilki for infantry fire support. But there was no shortage.

Obviously, this idea is not so bad - heavy infantry weapons in a truck?

[Lopatov]

Quote: abc_alex

And how do you explain then that as soon as our army begins to fight somewhere, army craftsmen immediately begin to install 23-mm anti-aircraft guns in truck bodies?

There was a period when it was really needed.
In Afghanistan, due to the fact that BMP-1, BTR-60 and BRDM-2 have large restrictions on the angles of vertical aiming. And in the mountains it is fraught with big problems
Or in Chechnya, when it is necessary to accompany the rear columns, but there is no "wheel armor". For example, in the shelves on the BMP.

But these were all forced measures. Due to the fact that there is no necessary equipment. And not because the ZU-23-2 is better

[Dog]

Quote: Spade

But these were all forced measures

"And better - a thousand guns per kilometer of the front" (c)
But the possibilities of any industry are limited.
An APC and a cart are better than just an APC, even an APC is better than a cart.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Dog

But the possibilities of any industry are limited.

And the possibilities of demography are even more limited. The times of "women are still giving birth" are a thing of the past even under Khrushchev

Therefore, an armored personnel carrier and a cart are worse than just an armored personnel carrier

[Dog]

Quote: Spade

Demographics are even more limited.

Do you think robots are already working at factories?
Let's equip the army’s floor with nothing - it must be thought that demography will be tightened in case of military operations

[Lopatov]

Quote: Dog

Do you think robots are already working at factories?

And where are the factories, if we are talking about the calculations of the ZU-23-2, forced to climb under the bullets and fragments for the sake of "economy"
Or do you propose to drive hard workers from these factories into the army as "consumables"?

[Dog]

Quote: Spade

and here the plants

Demographics affect production no less than the number of fighters.

Quote: Spade

talking about the calculations of the ZU-23-2, forced to climb under the bullets and fragments for the sake of "economy"

It's about the unfortunate calculations of ZU-23-2, deprived of mobility because of your stubbornness in protecting the illogical slogan that BTR is better and nothing than BTR and cart.

Quote: Spade

You offer hard workers from these plants to drive into the army

This is not what I propose, it was smart minds that at one time came up with so much that there is an active army, but there is a reserve that, in which case, throws machines and picks up weapons.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Dog

We are talking about the unfortunate calculations of ZU-23-2, deprived of mobility

Why do they need mobility?
This is an obsolete anti-aircraft gun, unable to work on modern means of air attack.
And not ensuring the safety of calculation when applied to ground targets.

In addition, "mobility" has a downside - a sharp decrease in accuracy. And so not very high.

Quote: Dog

It’s not I suggest, it’s clever minds that

"smart heads" came up with the idea of ​​using trained fighters as suicide bombers in order to reduce the cost of weapons? Are they really smart?

[Dog]

Quote: Spade

Why do they need mobility?

Movement is life.

Quote: Spade

insecure calculation when applied to ground targets

And you are her last hope - mobility - trying to pick up.

Quote: Spade

there is a flip side, a sharp decrease in accuracy. And so not very high.

Automatic infantry weapons are generally not an exact thing. Bolt rifle - more precisely.

Quote: Spade

use trained fighters as suicide bombers

Without mobility, it’s just death row.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Dog

Automatic infantry weapons are generally not an exact thing.

Sorry, but the ZU-23-2 is never an "infantry weapon" This is an outdated weapon for anti-aircraft gunners. Unable to protect even from "shock" drones from aliexpress.

Quote: Dog

Without mobility, it’s just death row.

Dear, the Urals, like it or not, are much slower even than the ancient first-generation ATGMs.
So this kind of "mobility" won't help.

[Dog]

Quote: Spade

ZU-23-2 is never "infantry weapon"

Do you think they put it on a cart for air defense purposes?

Quote: Spade

The Urals, if not cool, is much slower than even the ancient ATGMs

Running away from a rocket - smacks of Munich women. Change of position after firing, timely maneuver by forces - I think the calculation is still for these actions

[abc_alex]

Quote: Spade

And where are the factories, if we are talking about the calculations of the ZU-23-2, forced to climb under the bullets and fragments for the sake of "economy"

??? The firing range of the ZU-23-2 is 2500 meters. And this is not a design parameter, it is the range at which the tracer is lit and after which the standard projectile is undermined. What bullets will the calculations go under? Even at a distance of half the maximum range, they will be reliably protected from the main types of small arms. The only exception is shelling from a large-caliber DShK, which, as you know, is a unique thing.
And it's not about saving. Indeed, it is not because of the economy that the armies of the world do not arm themselves entirely with machine guns, but use assault rifles.
There is a certain task - to promptly strengthen the infantry division by means of suppressing firing points outside the small arms coverage area. You can - armored personnel carrier. You can - BMP. You can - a tank or BMPT. But for some reason, the army team is constantly making a makeshift with ZU-23-2. Are they dumber than you and me? We will argue with those who are at the forefront or, perhaps, do what they want? They need a truck with a ZU-23-2. Let's make it, not only at the homemade level, but at the normal technical level, in the form of a secure module with reservation.

Quote: Spade

This is an obsolete anti-aircraft gun, unable to work on modern means of air attack.

The ability to fire at ground targets was provided for in the ZU-23-2 design initially: for this purpose, the T-23 optical ground sight was mounted on the ZAP-3 sight, which had a line of sight independent of the ZAP-23.

[businessv]

Quote: abc_alex

in Afghanistan, even Shilka for infantry fire support adapted. But there was no shortage.

To increase ammunition, they pulled out PSAs and other electronics from there, leaving them necessary for firing. Rate of fire - 4000 rds / min, and for this they adapted. Do not raise your head if it has not yet been torn off by a shot.

[Mwg]

And a hundred million billion in addition, yeah

[Mwg]

The infantry climbed onto the armor, fearing undermining rather than heat, Mr. Army Admiral

[Lopatov]

Quote: MVG

Infantry climbed on the armor fearing undermining

Why be afraid of him?
Infantry rides in a convoy. If anyone blows up, then intelligence or tankers.

And by the way, why in bad weather did the infantry climb back into the landing? Is there a lower risk of blasting during the rain?

[Mwg]

There is such a thing, a controlled landmine called. Buried, sitting, waiting. Depending on the purpose and composition of the column and the purpose of the ambush, the blasting is carried out either after the passage of the head vehicle, or closer to the middle. Usually tearing just escort combat vehicles, as this is a fairly serious force in itself, and even with the landing.
If a land mine is detonated under a BMP or BMD, due to the design features, the crew and the landing force in a confined space receive more serious injuries, including compression fractures of the spine (if survived - disabled). On board the same explosion, the assault blows off with less serious consequences. Hit in the RPG grenade technique is a 100% death of both the landing party and the crew.
By the way, the crew traveled almost always with open hatches: there were cases when, during an explosion, the crew threw into the hatches with minimal damage. The most dangerous place is the shooter in the tower, there are no hatches
Well, no one wants to get wet in the rain, and even when it is not known when it will be possible to dry out, and the task must be completed. There’s a lottery: if it explodes, it does not explode.

[Lopatov]

Quote: MVG

There is such a thing, a controlled landmine called. Buried, sitting, waiting.

They will not "bury" it, because the hole in the asphalt is immediately visible. It will be installed on the side of the road.
Those who did not stick out on the armor will be saved.

Quote: MVG

Well, no one wants to get wet in the rain,

Exactly.
And suddenly the mine danger disappears somewhere.

[Mwg]

Landmines are installed on the sidelines as a means of hitting columns in 1,2,3 vehicles / lightly armored vehicles without amplification and are not used against columns with amplification, since such a tool is ineffective for armor. When attacking columns with reinforcement on the sidelines, cumulative charges can be installed to defeat armored vehicles on board, but this is a theory that, due to complexity, is practically not applied.
Where asphalt columns are undermined / undermined, not enough, and where it is successfully used, horizontal pits, or lay a landmine in the watercourse pipes under the roadway

[Lopatov]

Quote: MVG

Landmines are installed on the sidelines as a means of hitting columns in 1,2,3 vehicles / lightly armored vehicles without reinforcement and are not used against columns with reinforcement, because such an agent is ineffective for armor.

Nonsense.
IEDs on the sidelines qualitatively destroy the infantry sitting on the armor and are able to disable equipment regardless of the length of the column.
Rather, on the contrary, the longer the better

Quote: MVG

When attacking columns with reinforcement on the sidelines, cumulative charges can be set

It remains to figure out where to give the poor militant a modern anti-sideboard mine

Quote: MVG

Where there are / undermined columns of asphalt columns is not enough

Yah ???

Quote: MVG

successfully apply horizontal pits

In which they stuff so many explosives that sitting on the armor will not save. As in Pionerskoye, eight hundred kopecks under the roadbed. Well, the wire was interrupted during the shooting of the unfinished gas station, where the place for the "explosive" was determined.

It’s just stupidly impractical to invest so much work for the sake of IEDs, from which you can be saved while sitting on the armor, and not inside it.

Quote: MVG

either lay a landmine in the pipes of the watercourse under the roadway

Which stupid sappers simply will not guess to check ...

[Mwg]

Marshal Zhukov, as Zhukov is))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Graz]

everything has long been invented wheel tank

Quote: alexmach

So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

[ccsr]

Quote from S.S.R.

The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust?

You correctly assessed everything - cheapness and mobility are precisely the main factor for creating such a technique. If desired, it will be handed over to the local military, and at low cost they will be trained in an illiterate contingent. By the way, back in Soviet times, they tried to use MTLBu for such weapons, but refused, and work on mass production did not begin, if I am not mistaken. I believe that the use of an automobile base with light booking is most optimal for combating terrorists in that region.

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

cheapness

Who?
Those fighters who will be put on the memory?
And let's count? What do they cost parents and the state. From birth.

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

Who?
Those fighters who will be put on the memory?

The cost of weapons. By the way, suicide bombers often undermine themselves in crowded places, directing a car stuffed with explosives at a checkpoint or barracks. How then will a tank standing in the park help you? And to defeat such a suicide bomber, the Urals with a memory are quite suitable.

Quote: Spade

And let's count?

Count and understand that any involvement in an armed conflict is not without losses. Maybe instead of counting, just do not send troops to other countries?

Quote: Spade

What do they cost parents and the state. From birth.

You are in favor of liquidating the army, because in the course of exercises and maneuvers, people die, and army life is not without it. You then say that you need to declare neutrality and we will live like Sweden or Switzerland.
Do you even know that in our SA the annual losses of personnel in everyday life and during the training of troops were higher than the average annual military losses of troops in Afghanistan for the entire period of their stay?

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

The cost of weapons.

And do not you consider suicide bombers in the seats of ZU-23-2? Free consumables?

Quote: ccsr

just do not send troops to other countries?

Do you think that fighting in your own is much better?

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

And do not you consider suicide bombers in the seats of ZU-23-2?

I did not see them traveling around the streets of our cities.

Quote: Spade

Do you think that fighting in your own is much better?

Of course - if people die here, we at least understand why they die and appreciate it. And for what our contractors in Syria are now dying, most of them have no idea - you yourself know why?

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

I did not see them traveling around the streets of our cities.

So you are very lucky.
But I saw it.
Maybe that's why I prefer the war to go outside the country, and not in it?

Quote: ccsr

Of course - if people die here, we at least understand why they die and appreciate it.

You, as it’s softer, don’t give a damn about them ... from the high bell tower. No matter where they fight.
Even in the case of this strange product, ZU-23-2 on a truck. You focus on the cheapness of such a decision. And the fact that the calculation may die even from a simple shooter, you do not care. Cheapness is more important.

Quote: ccsr

do you know why?

In order for the forces and means of international Islamic terrorism to be spent in Syria, and not in the Caucasus.

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

But I saw it.

I wonder where?

Quote: Spade

Maybe that's why I prefer the war to go outside the country, and not in it?

But doesn’t it scare that they will throw us after we render assistance, even at the cost of the death of our people?

Quote: Spade

You on them, as it were softer,

I do not know your military experience, therefore, to put it mildly, I do not share your demagogy. Are they even the deputy armament for the regiment’s armament, or were there general ideas about armored vehicles and its operation?

Quote: Spade

You focus on the cheapness of such a decision.

This is done for a specific situation, and before a decision was made, it was discussed by professionals who take into account all the realities, not your emotions.

Quote: Spade

In order for the forces and means of international Islamic terrorism to be spent in Syria, and not in the Caucasus.

I have heard this more than once, but experience has shown that Syria is only one country, and Islamic radicals in dozens of countries have their bases. Do you want to send our troops there so that they don’t get to the Caucasus? Do you believe in this argument?

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

I wonder where?

Ossetia, Ingushetia, Chechnya

Quote: ccsr

But it’s not scary that they will throw us

I don't care about that.
We have already made the Caucasus much safer. And not only the Caucasus.

Quote: ccsr

I do not know your military experience

Sufficient. To understand what this is about. And how the phrases about "we understand why they are dying and appreciate it"

Quote: ccsr

Themselves then at least deputy regiment armament were

And zampotech here generally from which side ?????

Quote: ccsr

I have heard this more than once, but experience has shown that Syria is only one country, and Islamic radicals in dozens of countries have their bases. Do you want to send our troops there so that they don’t get to the Caucasus? Do you believe in this argument?

Experience has shown that money spent in Syria cannot be spent in Russia.
Experience has shown that the militant killed in Syria cannot be sent to Russia to organize a terrorist attack.
As experience has shown, a rocket purchased in Bulgaria cannot be simultaneously used in Syria and Russia

And what your experience tells you is your own business.

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

Ossetia, Ingushetia, Chechnya

It was too long ago and their appearance was associated only with the drunk president. We don’t remember a walk-in field in Civil for comparison. I ask you about the current realities, since we are talking about modern weapons.

Quote: Spade

We have already made the Caucasus much safer.

I do not share your optimism - at least in Ingushetia, Yevkurov did not succeed, judging by the fact that he himself was blown up and he left this post.

Quote: Spade

And zampotech here generally from which side ?????

They understand the issues of the operation of weapons and military equipment best of all, and all theorists of modern warfare need to listen to their opinion.

Quote: Spade

Experience has shown that the militant killed in Syria cannot be sent to Russia to organize a terrorist attack.

In its place there are dozens of those who come to us from Central Asia, or, as in Tatarstan, undermine objectionable mullahs.
I think that you simply do not own the situation with the contingent of Islamists arrested by the FSB. Something there is not Syrian come across, as far as I understand from the reports of the special services.

Quote: Spade

As experience has shown, a rocket purchased in Bulgaria cannot be simultaneously used in Syria and Russia

Already for some reason, and they sell guns to all militants who are not lazy - even Israeli equipment is in service with them. You should not hope for it, it is naive.

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

It was too long

Whole half a year ago?
See how interesting. I said that you don't give a damn, but you decided not to believe it. So what?

Quote: ccsr

I do not share your optimism

You are even more optimistic. Claiming "it was too long ago"

Quote: ccsr

I think that you simply do not own the situation

But you own just fine.
It was too long (C)

Quote: ccsr

They understand best the issues of the operation of weapons and military equipment.

Ага.
And the seller of the store knows better than you what you need to buy

The problem is that it exploits the equipment, using it for its intended purpose, not at all zampotech. It refers to collateral. And not even combat, but the rear.

And its convenience is the tenth thing.

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

Whole half a year ago?

I don’t know what event you are talking about.

Quote: Spade

The problem is that it exploits the equipment, using it for its intended purpose, not at all zampotech. It refers to collateral. And not even combat, but the rear.
And its convenience is the tenth thing.

The trouble for some commanders is often that they do not know the capabilities of their equipment, and moreover, they spoil it from illiterate operation even in non-combat conditions - read the Soviet orders of the Ministry of Defense about serious incidents in the troops, there are many examples of such incompetence. Yes, and the Russian army sins this - there are also many examples. Zampotechov is distinguished from commanders primarily by a deeper knowledge of weapons and equipment, and they understand better than others where there were design flaws, and where the flaws of the commanders for training personnel were checked repeatedly over the years of service.

Quote: Spade

But you own just fine.

I can see the delusions of some of the local "experts" in the field of weapons and military equipment - I will not hide this, because had good practice. That is why I do not give a damn about the fact that the mistakes of the past are not repeated in the current army, and therefore I am expressing an opinion that you are unlikely to refute with arguments.

[businessv]

Quote: ccsr

Do you even know that in our SA the annual losses of personnel in everyday life and during the training of troops were higher than the average annual military losses of troops in Afghanistan for the entire period of their stay?

What years do you mean? In peacetime, during the year we lost soldiers as much as in Afghanistan for 10 years ?! Do not confuse anything? Or forgot to think before they sent? For the entire time our GSVG was located, we lost only 34 people! Each non-combat loss was an army emergency!

[ccsr]

Quote: businessv

In peacetime, during the year we lost soldiers as much as in Afghanistan for 10 years ?! Do not confuse anything?

I wrote the word "average annual" especially for you, but you don't seem to know what it means. In Afghanistan, the average annual losses were less than 1,5 thousand people, but the annual losses in the SA at that time were higher - more than 2 thousand servicemen died in the army for various reasons, this was reported in the annual order of the Ministry of Defense. If you were not told such, then your level was not the one to know about it.

Quote: businessv

For the entire time our GSVG was located, we lost only 34 people!

I wonder where this figure came from, if only in my memory for six years there were six killed helicopter pilots, and the same number for other reasons - German border guards shot one deserter, one burned out in the control room, one sentry was killed at the post, one died in the capter when he fire, etc. And this is just what I remember offhand, but in fact there were other emergency situations, I just don’t remember everything.

Quote: businessv

Each non-combat loss was an army emergency!

You can not tell me this - I myself buried my colleagues, and I know the whole procedure, starting with the work of the investigators of the unit.

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

At exactly

That's right ... Everywhere there are "Toyota wars" and only here we decided to oppose them with the "Ural war" ... And all because we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such a "Toyota"

[Lopatov]

Quote: svp67

And all because we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such a "toyota"

As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.
Maybe it’s him. this "full-fledged analogue" ???

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.

As I understand it, now UABLs are connecting to this process ...

Quote: Spade

Maybe it’s him. this "full-fledged analogue" ???

Honestly, it would not hurt, the "original" is too good

[Lopatov]

Quote: svp67

Honestly would not hurt

Even as prevented.
Strange thoughts begin to arise in the minds of palkovodtsev.
Even "UAZ-patriot" managed to call them ...

[loki565]

It seems that SAMUM developed, for this purpose, armor and remote control, what else is needed)))

[EvilLion]

We need to live on this machine, and with this just the truck is much easier, even easier than the armored personnel carrier.

[ccsr]

Quote: EvilLion

and with this just the truck is much simpler, even easier than the armored personnel carrier.

So I believe that they requested such a machine purely for economic purposes - in the Urals it will be possible to transport foodstuffs, fuel and lubricants, and ammunition, and personnel, and a bunch of problems this machine will solve in the troops that are divorced from our armed forces forces and are far from the homeland. Not every terrorist will risk approaching a convoy where there are such vehicles, even if there is no armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle, and the cost of its maintenance and maintenance is much less than that of armored vehicles.

[Victorio]

Quote: Spade

Quote: svp67

And all because we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such a "toyota"

As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.
Maybe it’s him. this "full-fledged analogue" ???

===
and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural? somewhere you can / need to use a helicopter, and somewhere you can / need to get along with an equipped truck.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Victorio

and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural?

And if you compare "Toyota / armored Ural" and a naked man with a stone ax?

[Victorio]

Quote: Spade

Quote: Victorio

and if you compare the cost: a helicopter / pilot training and how much is a toyot / armored ural?

And if you compare "Toyota / armored Ural" and a naked man with a stone ax?

====
? compare!

[Lopatov]

Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.
For a helicopter, 270 km / h, roughly a section of 90 kilometers.
For the "Ural" off-road 30 km / h from force, roughly a section of 10 km
For a man with a stone ax at a force of 15 km / h, roughly a plot of 5 km.

So what is cheaper, one helicopter, 9 (nine) "Urals" or 18 stone axes?

[svp67]

Quote: Spade

So what is cheaper, one helicopter, 9 (nine) "Urals" or 18 stone axes?

For any 18 stone axes ... there is no competition ... even iron axes will be more expensive. Another question, which is more efficient?

[Graz]

a perfectly economical drone with a pair of low-cost missiles that could hang over the terrain for a long time

[svp67]

Quote: Graz

a perfectly economical drone with a pair of low-cost missiles that could hang over the terrain for a long time

"Tethered balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

[Misha Honest]

Quote: svp67

"Tethered balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

Until the first bullet ...

[svp67]

Quote: Misha Honest

Until the first bullet ...

Everything will neatly go down ... but the shooter still needs to reach the shot distance along the detection and shelling zone of this device ....

[Misha Honest]

Quote: svp67

but the arrow still needs to reach the shot distance along the detection and shelling zone of this device ....

Unless the shooter has the Barret M82, for example, or the Gepard M1 ...
I am silent about the size of the balloon and its immobility. Just a target. )

[SSR]

Quote: Misha Honest

Quote: svp67

"Tethered balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

Until the first bullet ...

Actually, everything up to the "first bullet".
Generally lost the essence of the discussion. There are various "niches" such as Armor and S400 or "antiaircraft". The article says that the tachanka is ideal for the steppes. Kamrad Lopatov writes about helicopters, the question arises why the whole army is not on helicopters? Or maybe it’s worth immediately replacing everyone from helicopters to the MiG-35, this is even faster, higher and more powerful, or just a nuclear weapon strike, hundreds of hectares will be cleared of everyone.
PS.
If you need to sweep the parade ground and they give me a crowbar, then I am sorry for the one who is trying to engage in moronism (to see this nerd syndrome is still strong in the army) and I am sorry for the parade ground.

[Lopatov]

Quote from S.S.R.

why is the whole army not in helicopters?

No money left.

[Mwg]

Do not ask stupid questions, there authoritative people authoritatively reason on abstract topics from nightly fantasies during insomnia. You remembered nothing about nuclear weapons, they will now blame the RF Armed Forces for not issuing infantry platoons with portable tactical nuclear munitions.

[Misha Honest]

Quote from S.S.R.

Generally lost the essence of the discussion.

Yes, I, in general, too. I just could not remain silent when offered: "Tethered balloon" with a platform for installing ATGMs

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.

These calculations do not work with suicide bombers - they can use non-traditional methods of warfare, including by waiting for individual units to undermine a previously laid mine. And how do you calculate all this

[Lopatov]

Quote: ccsr

With suicide bombers, these calculations do not pass

Yeah. They bounce, cling to the helicopter wheel and blow themselves up ...

[ccsr]

Quote: Spade

Let's try. The reaction time is set at 10 minutes.

These calculations do not work with suicide bombers - they can use non-traditional methods of warfare, including by waiting for individual units to undermine a previously laid mine. And how do you calculate all this, even if you have 5 minutes of reaction time - the unit will be destroyed, and the suicide bomber is unlikely to survive.
One author answered you correctly:

The article says that the cart is perfect for the steppes. Kamrad Lopatov writes about helicopters, the question arises, why is the whole army not in helicopters? Or maybe it’s worth immediately replanting everyone from helicopters on the MiG-35, it’s even faster, higher and more powerful, or just a nuclear strike, hundreds of hectares will be cleared from everyone.

[carstorm 11]

did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)

[Misha Honest]

Quote: carstorm 11

did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)

Let's just say - drones have long appeared in the Barmalei.

[Lopatov]

Quote: carstorm 11

did the barmalei have helicopters? and how long?)

Since the moment when in Libya "the narot defeated the tyrant".
Both helicopters and airplanes

[Den717]

Quote: Spade

As practice shows, helicopters always win in Toyot wars.

You tell about helicopters by the relatives of soldiers of the 6th company 76gvvDD.

[EvilLion]

Have the helicopters been there? And then there is only one question, where were all the others, and a regiment nearby, and helicopters?

[Den717]

Quote: EvilLion

Have the helicopters been there?

Here I am about the same ... There is no one universal weapon that defeats everything. First of all, the Head and all the weapons in the complex win.

[lucul]

That's right ... Everywhere there are "Toyota wars" and only here we decided to oppose them with the "Ural war" ... And all because we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such a "Toyota"

And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))

[svp67]

Quote: lucul

And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))

And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"

[lucul]

And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"

And most importantly - these new cars are crammed with electronics - through which the machine can be remotely blocked, and even found like a mobile phone - but they don’t do it at all)))

[Den717]

Quote: svp67

And what are the sanctions ... if all these cars are listed as "stolen"

".... Texas plumber Mark Oberholtzer sued a car dealership in which he traded his old work pickup truck for a new car with a surcharge. The 52-year-old man's car was sold to Turkey, and later ended up in the hands of ISIS militants and fell into common The DailyMail reports. Due to the fact that Mark's personal data and the phone number of his family company are on the body of the car, he and his family began to receive anonymous threatening calls. Oberholtzer is demanding $ 1 million in compensation .... " Somehow stolen ...

[ccsr]

Quote: lucul

And most importantly - there are still no sanctions against Toyota))))

What sanctions - on the contrary, they created such an advertisement that Toyota will soon take up aviation equipment, there will be a demand for it ...

[loki565]

Zushka on the thaw is a bust, it’s rocking the Urals, and on the pickup there will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))

[Grits]

Quote: loki565

and the pickup will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))

But that is exactly how the Arabs fight. They also shoot their Kalash in the sky

[svp67]

Quote: loki565

Zushka on the thaw is a bust, it’s rocking the Urals, and on the pickup there will be shooting somewhere in that direction)))

Quote: Gritsa

But that is exactly how the Arabs fight.

[maidan.izrailovich]

Zushka on the thaw is a bust, she shakes the Urals ....

Yes, well, why are you all stepping on the same rake?
Many photos and videos have already been published here. Where is ZSU-23-2 on Toyota.

[Lopatov]

Quote: maidan.izrailovich

Yes, well, why are you all stepping on the same rake?
Many photos and videos have already been published here. Where is ZSU-23-2 on Toyota.

The publication of the photograph does not make the ZU-23-2 more accurate on the machine.

[novobranets]

Quote: svp67

And all because we do not have a full-fledged analogue of such a "toyota"

Something to eat.

[strannik1985]

That's right ...

So they tried already, in the First Chechen, several DShBs on Gaz-66 and UAZ-469 were attached to motorized rifle regiments, there were losses, the cars were "armored" with sandbags and that did not help much. One battalion was taken out to guard the airfield in Mozdok, the rest to the PPD.

[Lopatov]

Quote: strannik1985

So they tried already, in the First Chechen several DSB on Gaz-66 and UAZ-469 were given to motorized rifle regiments

These were the Kamyshin, they were not given to anyone.

[carstorm 11]

nothing forced. in the conditions of deserts and steppes it is an ideal option. quick deployment. fast moving. however, one factor that everyone misses is that it is not possible to immediately recognize a simple truck as a dangerous target. service in any conditions. transportable ammunition. ease of use. they replay the APC in everything, which is essentially not intended for these purposes. Forcibly, this is just the use of armored personnel carriers not for their intended purpose as a firing point.

[Lopatov]

Quote: carstorm 11

nothing forced. in the conditions of deserts and steppes it is an ideal option.

BTR is better.

Quote: carstorm 11

identify a simple truck as a dangerous target

"in the conditions of steppes and deserts" will be possible at the same ranges. as the armored personnel carrier.

Quote: carstorm 11

they replay the armored personnel carrier in everything

In vulnerability, in the absence of basic comfort.
But the rest is very, very controversial.

Quote: carstorm 11

the use of armored personnel carriers is not intended for use as a firing point.

?????

[prapor55]

We have a huge number of cases from BTR-60,70. The Muromtsevsky plant put a diesel engine on them with a minimum alteration of the hull, I believe that as a fire support vehicle it will be cheaper and no worse.

[Den717]

Quote: Spade

Something they really started to inadequate. To pass off a compulsory measure as "best practice" is too much.

Those who, according to you, began to "inadequate", went through Syria, and not on TV. This experience was called "advanced" by your interlocutor, and not by those who decided to apply this experience. I don’t think that you are better than those who have served their time in Syria, you know how and how to fight with bandos, such as ISIS, now gathered in heaps in northern Afghanistan. Don't you like the idea of ​​the Ural-tachanka? Suggest yours. Proven by real combat actions of the corresponding specifics.

[kjhg]

Quote: ABM

So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body

If in unmanned vehicles, then you can.

[vik669]

KamAZ began testing an unmanned truck

[cniza]

The new technique will be used against the militants' favorite weapon - "jihad mobiles".

Looks like we're getting ready for a possible invasion from Afghanistan.

[seregatara1969]

So the whole world wants to control us. You have to dodge.

[NEXUS]

Quote: cniza

Looks like we're getting ready for a possible invasion from Afghanistan.

No, I don’t think ... the war has become very multi-level, from tactical missile attacks and drone attacks, and ending with martyr mobiles. I think that the data are relatively cheap, specifically for countering shahid mobiles. Besides, why not take over the experience of dushmans in particular with regard to the mobility of light percussion instruments.

[knn54]

The Yankees are leaving Afghanistan, so you have to be prepared.
And remembering the proverb "against the scrap of scrap," I think the decision is correct. Against a jihad mobile, you must have means that are no less mobile, but also more protected and with more powerful weapons.
There are either unprotected trucks or heavy APCs in the army, so armored trucks are also needed.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: knn54

against scrap scrap reception

Well, you need to have a crowbar, not a rotten stick
If the enemy runs with a flintlock pistol, this does not mean that you need to throw away your machine gun and also look for a flintlock pistol

Quote: knn54

Against a jihad mobile, one must have means no less mobile, but also more protected and with more powerful weapons.

are these these carts - more protected and armed than armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles ???

Quote: knn54

either heavy armored personnel carriers

let's estimate. If the Ural-4320 is hung with armor and put ZU-23-2 with ammunition, then the mass of this armored car will come close to the BTR-80 or BMP-2. Having much worse all other indicators.

[carstorm 11]

competent placement of funds with clear sectors of fire solves all issues.

[carstorm 11]

except ZSU with its wild rate of fire and fire density, you can cram a bunch of everything else into the truck. grenade launchers and machine guns will not take up much space. while further increasing the density of the fire and increasing its sector.

[Grigory_45]

sorry, but it’s painful for a child’s comment, didn’t even want to answer ..
.

Quote: carstorm 11

you can put in a truck ... a bunch of everything else. grenade launchers and machine guns will not take up much space. while further increasing the density of fire

yeah, as well as a couple of cruise missiles and (just in case) at least one ICBM
Calculate all this magnificence in a stack until the free volume is completely filled.
Put ammunition tightly on three trailers.

Quote: carstorm 11

competent placement of funds with clear sectors of fire solves all issues

does not decide. Could have solved, but only one - with the shelling sectors. But in order for it (the sector) to be large enough, the armament in our case must be placed quite high (do not forget, we put the armament in the truck, besides, it is armored). On BMP and armored personnel carriers there is no problem with sectors - they have a tower (or combat module) of circular rotation on the roof, there is no cabin and it does not interfere. Such a trick won't work with a truck. Or you get a Frankenstein with a high center of gravity, which will have a very bad effect on the entire "self-propelled gun" as a whole.

[carstorm 11]

I beg of you. put a few tubes and a machine gun with bk will it take a lot of space for you?) this is pretty compact iron for such machines. as for the armored personnel carrier sector, this is good of course only it has a smaller viewing angle. and you do not take into account the fact that this machine is simply needed as the carrier of the ZSU. whose effectiveness in terms of the density of fire of the armored personnel carrier stupidly will not. at the same time, again, do not forget that OFZ this gun has at a speed of 980 meters per second .. you take as a basis exactly the anti-aircraft installation and its capabilities and not the truck.

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

let's estimate. If the Ural-4320 is hung with armor and put ZU-23-2 with ammunition, then the mass of this armored car will come close to the BTR-80 or BMP-2. Having much worse all other indicators.

You just don’t take into account one thing - under the armored personnel carrier and infantry fighting vehicles, a serious rembase is needed, but the Urals can be serviced at ordinary automobile enterprises, which reduces the cost of operating and training personnel. I think that this model is specially prepared for our Central Asia in order to supply them with a cheap tool for the war against the Islamists, knowing their insolvency. Perhaps other countries with similar problems will be interested in them - this is also possible. Let me remind you that Soviet amphibious tanks were very much in demand in some countries of Southeast Asia, and are still in service there.

[cniza]

Quote: NEXUS

I think the data are relatively cheap tools specifically for countering shahid mobiles.

So I about it, it's time to use the money wisely ...

[loki565]

And what is Venezuela getting ready ???))) by the way the Kamaz armored cabin

[Honest Citizen]

Quote: ABM

Here are the best practices! So we will soon begin to prepare martyrs in the army. A weapon is not necessary - a couple of tons of explosives in the body

I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.
And the less blood will be shed by our soldiers, yes in the same Syria, then this should only be welcomed.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Honest Citizen

I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.

If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse

[Honest Citizen]

If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse

Those. This must be understood, how "in the absence of a lady and the cook will get off?"
So why then they write in the news that the first parties have already arrived? If they differ only for the worse?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Those. This must be understood, how "in the absence of a lady and the cook will get off?"

This must be understood as "depicting violent activity"
And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored

[Tank hard]

Quote: Spade

This must be understood as "depicting violent activity"
And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored

Who are you writing to? Offended by the power hard worker from a metallurgical plant? However, if you want, then spend an educational program, but I think - will not appreciate it.

[carstorm 11]

the whole mistake in the judgments is that everyone is attached to the trucks, forgetting that he is just a carrier for ZSU. it is in this installation that the whole thing is. it is on her that the emphasis is placed on her rate of fire and density of fire.

[Lopatov]

Quote: carstorm 11

for ZSU. it is in this installation that the whole thing is. it is on her that the emphasis is placed on her rate of fire and density of fire.

All right.
Then what is the advantage of the old ZU-23-2 over, for example, the 30-mm 2A72 with the thermal imaging combined TKN-4GA-03

[Grits]

Quote: Spade

And now we are forced to put the old ZU-23-2, we will not be in the usual Urals and KamAZ. and on armored

But at the expense of the "armored" I agree - it will be overkill. Then the APC is better.

[alexmach]

BTR-82a for a normal BTR will come down? What is the question then, they are enough in the army.

[Lopatov]

Quote: alexmach

BTR-82a for a normal BTR will come down?

Even the BTR-70 or BTR-60 with a tower from the BTR-80 is better than the ZU-23-2 on a truck

[carstorm 11]

probably for the same reason in Afghanistan ZSU put on shishigi and drove along with armored personnel carriers for escort. here are stupid people ...

[loki565]

It was the case, some even got on the video)))

[Mwg]

Thanks for this video.

[your1970]

and what chic roads they built there ... eh ...

[Grits]

Quote: Spade

If it differs in anything from the normal APC, then only for the worse

It is clear that the efficiency of the truck is worse. But there is a significant plus - the cost! One armored personnel carrier in cost will be like several Urals from ZSU loaded on them. And with the easy movement of several hands, they again turn into trucks with their own functionality - to carry goods, people, to be a tractor.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Honest Citizen

but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walker, then it is necessary to apply.

Do you really think that these "carts" are more effective than an armored personnel carrier or an infantry fighting vehicle? If in Syria they ride such people, it is not because they are the top of military thought, but because there is no other way
How do you imagine such a picture. "Friends" sent the barmaley normal cars, and they: - nope, no need for your garbage, right now Mahmud will weld a tripod under DShK on my Toyota - kanfetka budet, and let's go and show them all!

I understand when militants ride this trash. But we are! Army, or who?

On this ersatz technique there are neither normal sights, nor night vision devices, nor thermal imagers, you can shoot only from a stop - yes, a minus car and a small cart. Of the advantages, only one is the cost. And then it’s not a fact if their corporation does any factory

[Tank hard]

Quote: Gregory_45

Do you really think that these "carts" are more effective than an armored personnel carrier or an infantry fighting vehicle?

He does not understand...

[carstorm 11]

for sure. and at the same time, the latest tornadoes, not ancient cities, are driven there. saving such saving)

[Tank hard]

Quote: Honest Citizen

I did not quite understand about the preparation of martyrs in the army, but if such trucks show effectiveness against mobile walkers, then we must apply. Combat experience, it is written in blood.

To each his own. A steelworker and a worker from a metallurgical plant ( who you are) - crowbar, in order to break through the summer, and the military - his own. Do not write about what you absolutely do not understand. Continue your favorite, throw on the fan against the power.

[Mwg]

Oh, but then everything flies on the other side ...

[iouris]

Back to the Future!

[Vasyan1971]

Moreover, the protection of armored personnel carriers is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and in terms of firepower one truck can even surpass armored personnel carriers

armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than cars.

As in the advertisement: "Why pay more if there is no difference?"

[IGOR GORDEEV]

You can also use an armored car "Tiger" with a remotely controlled machine gun or grenade launcher. Expensive?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: IGOR GORDEEV

You can also use an armored car "Tiger" with a remotely controlled machine gun or grenade launcher.

To protect the base, generally stationary installations can be used. Screw the KPVT, ATGM or turret from an old tank to the concrete structure. Hit by ATGMs or a 125-mm shell to any jihad mobile is a guaranteed pass to heaven.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Gregory_45

To protect the base, generally stationary installations can be used.

Portable platform with remote control PPTU

[Sergey Averchenkov]

My God, there were such people back in Afghanistan, I shot and there are photos ... not digital, but real ones - developer, fixer.

[cost]

Oh my god, those were still in Afghanistan

Here is such a photo, though the quality is not really. Sand bags fell on the sides, at least some protection

[Fedorov]

And the paper "Unibrom," Photobrom, "well, or" Bromportrait?
Well, to be honest - I respect for the service, I didn’t have time to climb in Afghanistan by age, only in the Caucasus, however, I appeared there from a sperm in the mountains. Mother came to the ski track from Siberia, and Dad rummaged through the mountains, champion of the USSR, rescuer.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Serving the Soviet Union. :)

[Tank hard]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

Oh my god, there were such people back in Afghanistan, he shot and there are photos ... not digital, but real ones - developer, fixer

I have a verse about guys, I wrote it from the heart, I'll write it by the date here.

[Warrior MorePhoto]

In theory, as a PR move for the purchase of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. The cost is relatively not expensive, the training is minimal, there are production capacities, versatility in installing weapons, a large range in comparison with tanks and armored personnel carriers ...
In general, it is correct, and given the fact that testing in a hot climate is only good.

[113262a]

This is the bottom! And they were kidding over the non-brothers! (((This is all due to lack of hope and hopelessness. Is it instead of BMPT? It’s VERY budgetary! We had such a thing at 14, when militiamen with shovels from shovels stood at many roadblocks!

[Finn]

It is unlikely that they will trample from Afghanistan. Where you have to shove stones pebble meter per meter like sand in the sandbox. Trails and roads can be controlled. Bypassing is not real. Through shimkent it is possible, but our base is on the way.

[Leonido www]

Modernization, however .... well forgotten ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Leonidowww

Modernization, however .... well forgotten ...

Yeah, it remains to remember about the stone-throwers ...

[Old partisan]

Shaitan arba + zu23-2 someone reminds me of that. Only on shishig

[Fishery]

I think the trucks will respond more quickly, and maybe even a better overview and cram heavier weapons, everything is tailored to barmaley

[Grigory_45]

The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan.

and in Chechnya artificially armored Urals were used. All this - not from a good life, but from a banal lack of normal "armor".

We are given these ersatz mobiles for breakthrough technologies, for "very effective means", "the highest efficiency" of which is "proven by battles"! Where are we going, gentlemen? Have we run out of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, that we are forced (and - by the industry!) To rivet these non-armored vehicles ???

You can go even further, and again, recall the "advanced" experience of wars (starting with the First World War), and instead of armor sheathe trucks with logs and armored with sandbags. Fortunately, we still have wood and sand ...

[MMX]

Yes, there’s nothing to discuss. Degradation.

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

We are given these ersatz mobiles for breakthrough technologies, for "very effective means", "the highest efficiency" of which is "proven by battles"!

Are you sure these vehicles are intended for the Russian army? Can any of the local "experts" say with confidence that they are planned to be included in the staff of motorized rifle units, or have they seen the weapons program, scheduled for ten years, which indicates the supply of this equipment to the troops? I think that basically there is a lot of chatter about the usual development, which was done on a sales order and nothing more.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ccsr

Are you sure these vehicles are intended for the Russian army? Can any of the local "experts" say with confidence that they are planned to be included in the staff of motorized rifle units, or have they seen the weapons program, scheduled for ten years, which indicates the supply of this equipment to the troops? I think that basically there is a lot of chatter about the usual development, which was done on a sales order and nothing more.

read the article (did you read it at all ???):

Russian military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan will be armed with KamAZ and Ural trucks with enhanced armor protection. They will carry a variety of weapons on board - from large-caliber machine guns to anti-tank systems.
As Izvestia reports with reference to the Ministry of Defense, several units equipped with new equipment will be deployed until the end of 2022 at military bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in the "Afghan" direction ... The first armored trucks have already arrived at the Kant airbase in Kyrgyzstan and at 201 th military base in Tajikistan.

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

read the article (did you read it at all ???):

I inform all "experts" that the adoption of equipment is a certain procedure that requires not only an act of the State Commission, but also an order from the Minister of Defense on the adoption and inclusion of these products in the list.
But there are also operational orders of equipment and weapons, which provide for a simplified procedure for the supply of such equipment, without including it in the state, i.e. to solve temporary problems. So I’m informing you that what you are talking about is unlikely to be included in the states of our motorized rifle units, and I am sure of that. By the way, they showed a photograph from Afghanistan with similar equipment made in artisanal conditions, and which was never adopted by the SA. It will be the same now - they will supply several dozens of such machines and no more. Alternatively, I think that they will supply it to our Central Asian republics, because it is cheaper and they will be able to buy it. In general, as I believe, a large amount of memory and ammunition accumulated in the central warehouses of the GRAU, and our sages quickly decided to bung such a car in order to drive it to where armed conflicts are. Nice idea, by the way ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ccsr

I inform any "experts"

that this equipment will be listed on the balance of the Ministry of Defense, since it will need to be serviced (write off fuel and lubricants and ammunition, purchase spare parts, etc.)
Since we are not dealing with handicraft production, the Moscow Region and a certain Russian company must sign a contract for the supply of these gantraks.
In fact, it makes no difference whether the car is in service or not. For this situation, this does not change anything. There is equipment, and it will be operated by the Russian military in these regions.

Quote: ccsr

In general, as I believe, a large amount of memory and ammunition accumulated in the central warehouses of the GRAU, and our sages quickly decided to bung such a car in order to drive it to where armed conflicts are.

Home-made entry-level crafts (DShK or ZU-23-2 in the back), local craftsmen will assemble themselves. There would be a chassis and weapons. There is nothing complicated in welding or fastening the beds to the chassis, absolutely.
If you are for a car like "Samum", then none of those whom you are going to "sell" to, will not buy it, because of the decent cost. This is no longer a Toyota with a machine gun.

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

that this equipment will be listed on the balance of the Ministry of Defense, since it will need to be serviced (write off fuel and lubricants and ammunition, purchase spare parts, etc.)

And what from this? We even had balloons in service, and not as air defense systems, but for communication repeaters.

Quote: Gregory_45

In fact, it makes no difference whether the car is in service or not.

Nothing of the kind - where are you going to get regular equipment? Or put one fighter at once for two bagels?

Quote: Gregory_45

Home-made entry-level crafts (DShK or ZU-23-2 in the back), local craftsmen will assemble themselves.

And they’ll go around themselves with the armor plates, and will they make the ammunition for themselves too?

Quote: Gregory_45

This is not a Toyota with a machine gun.

Actually, Toyota is not worth a penny, and its carrying capacity is too small to seriously pull it from the ZU-23-2 mm in the Urals. They explained to you here that recoil greatly sways the wheelbase, and aimed fire is difficult to conduct.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ccsr

where are you going to get regular equipment?

address the question of the Russian Ministry of Defense. It is their idea to replace full-time armor with dumbbells.

Quote: ccsr

And they’ll go around themselves with armored plates

sheathe the same)

Quote: ccsr

and they’ll make their own ammunition for themselves too?

and where did they take it and take it before? Are they delivered from the airborne forces from Russia? To get hold of former Soviet weapons in the post-Soviet space (and not only) is not a problem at all.

Quote: ccsr

They explained to you here

They didn’t explain to me. And I don’t have to explain it. And here it’s worth it. Toyota with a machine gun is a collective image of ersatz cars assembled from at least real Toyota, even from other pickups and trucks. Arab uncles Mahmuds.

Quote: ccsr

Actually, Toyota is not worth a penny

Are you sure that the baboons are buying them at official dealerships?))

The whole thing is that such gangsters do, did and will do. Those who do not have normal armor (armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, armored vehicles). If there will be money for them, then they will not need your trucks with memory.
And Samum too. Because the installation is remote with a pretty good sighting system. And it will cost like a dozen assembled on a knee Toyota with a machine gun

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

address the question of the Russian Ministry of Defense. It is their idea to replace full-time armor with dumbbells.

In fact, they did not say that this was a substitute - do not attribute what is not in sight.

Quote: Gregory_45

Toyota with a machine gun is a collective image of ersatz cars assembled from at least real Toyota, even from other pickups and trucks. Arab uncles Mahmuds.

Do you suggest that we go along their path, not taking into account the shortcomings of these homemade products? By the way, as with tire inflation on these Tayotas - do not tell by chance?

Quote: Gregory_45

If there will be money for them, then they will not need your trucks with memory.

The fact of the matter is that they have no money, here our cheap equipment will probably find its buyer.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ccsr

In fact, they did not say that it was a substitute

read the article (for the umpteenth time):

The military department explained that such armored trucks are especially effective against pickups with weapons installed by militants ... Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers

PS for the future - read carefully. And sleep, or something, you don’t seem quite adequate (this applies to the part of the writing that you did not comment on).

[ccsr]

Quote: Gregory_45

PS for the future - read carefully.

This is just a statement to the press, and you have already seen a radical change in staff - this is not even mentioned. Well, they will be replaced FOR TIME, and even then, only in parts of one small unit to solve some narrow tasks, and you have already fantasized about all the armed forces.

Quote: Gregory_45

And sleep, or something, you don’t seem quite adequate

You, too, do not look like a sane, even being sleepy.

[Po-tzan]

The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

Where's the boomerang aramt?

[MMX]

Quote: PO-tzan

The Russian military in Central Asia will be armed with cargo "carts"

Where's the boomerang aramt?

They are expensive. Weapons of the last century are cheaper. The calculator counted.

[g_ae]

I remember here on VO there was so much humor and fun about the Ukrainian wunderwaves, but here there is such a "analogue".

[Cats]

[Quote
Armored trucks with weapons installed on them will replace other armored vehicles, in particular, armored personnel carriers, which are both heavier and more expensive than vehicles. Moreover, the protection of armored personnel carriers is not stronger than that of armored trucks, and with respect to firepower, one truck can even surpass armored personnel carriers,
] [/ Quote]

Boo ha ha!
On a light armored truck, there is no possibility of circular shelling - no, stabilization of weapons - no, optoelectronics (thermal imager, noctovisor, etc.) - no, protection against WMD - no, no waterfowl properties. One advantage is the price. It seems that effective managers managed to crawl into the Moscow Region.

[Grigory_45]

April 2019, Yekaterinburg. On the streets - these are the "gantrucks" with DShK (!!!) and ZU-23-2. Apparently, they have been preparing for a long time ...

[Fishery]

most likely it didn’t work for anyone to sell)))) they’ve come up with some ideas

[satellite24]

finally did a new prodigy) even though there was enough money for it)

[Observer2014]

"Carts" Well then, the word was remembered

[Humpty]

"In the steppes of Central Asia, powerful cars can drive without roads at all, and their power reserve is twice that of armored vehicles."

An amazing conclusion. I wonder whose idea is this? It didn’t grow well with the steppes either in Tajikistan or in Kyrgyzstan. They seem to exist, but they are entirely cultivated - villages, fields, vegetable gardens, orchards, irrigation ditches, canals. There are tundras in Kyrgyzstan, far from Kant, not on the way to Tajikistan. If the Americans really leave Afghanistan, then the barmaley may have handicraft airplanes like in Syria. Adequate air defense may not be superfluous. Also, installations such as "Vienna" would be very relevant, but does anyone other than the Azerbaijani army have them?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Humpty

at barmaley can appear artisanal planes as in Syria. Adequate air defense may not be out of place

Moscow Region will allocate a couple of dozen quadruples of Maxims and heels of DShK, on ​​the same trucks. What is the strike power, such is the air defense - so as not to stand out

[K-50]

The idea of ​​using trucks as firearms is far from new; they were used by the Americans in World War II, and the US Army in Vietnam, and Israeli units in wars with Arab states, and units of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan.

Then, to begin with, it was worth remembering that such "devices" were first used to install Lender cannons as air defense in World War I, as well as anti-aircraft machine gun installations of quadruple "maxims" and 37-mm guns during the Great Patriotic War.

[uhu189]

If they were like reinforcement - it would probably be clear - an additional mobile firing point. But in the text they go as a replacement for armored personnel carriers. It’s not for me to judge of course, but somehow it looks wild

[Andrey VOV]

Quote: Spade

Quote: alexmach

So what technique do you think would be ideal against bandits in the desert?

Helicopter.
To accompany the rear columns - analogue of MRAP
For the transport of infantry - wheeled armored personnel carrier. With air conditioning. so that the infantry did not climb on the armor

Do you seriously think that more, but not inside, in the same Afghanistan and Chechnya went because of the lack of air conditioning ???

[Lopatov]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Do you seriously think that more, but not inside, in the same Afghanistan and Chechnya went because of the lack of air conditioning ???

Naturally.
And also "patamushto boring".
Well, for some, the vestibular is weak and starts to feel sick in the landing

About "watch", "survive the blast" - do not listen to noodles.
Because as soon as rain or snow, everything from the armor creeps into the landing. As soon as they fired, everyone from the armor crawls into the landing.
When, in 693 SMEs near Bamut, the BMP antenna removed the banner, for a month there was no one on the armor.

And fairy tales on the topic "why I am not able to drive my subordinates to the right place" can tell you a lot ...

[Andrey VOV]

Tales for grandchildren

[Lopatov]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Tales for grandchildren

Good argument


Are you hoping to change reality this way?

[Andrey VOV]

No, I will bring up my grandchildren as normal

[spectr]

Financing is either cut off or redistributed. Here are the warriors and are looking for how to ensure acceptable combat readiness on the remnants.

[Chaldon48]

Quote from S.S.R.

Quote: Spade

To pass off a compulsory measure as "best practice" is too much.

That is, is it a necessary measure or bust? If this is a necessary measure - then what's the bust?
The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust? I honestly want to understand.

And then what if on such a "tochanka" if you do not use a remotely controlled module, the shooting crew will be open to all winds, and will be exposed not only to the violence of the elements, rain and snow, but also easily removed as a machine-gun burst due to an ambush and a sniper.

[for]

And there is much more that has been forgotten.

[Cowbra]

What is this ... the USA is adopting the HUSHIT achievements ...

To this end, the US military budget for 2021 provides for the formation in the marine corps of mobile batteries for land-based anti-ship systems based on the Oshkosh JLTV wheeled armored vehicle. Raytheon Corporation, together with the Norwegian company Kongsberg, has developed a system for launching NSM (Naval Strike Missile) anti-ship missiles with a range of 3 to 185 kilometers.

As planned by the command, the mobile units of the marine corps will be able to secretly land on the islands to organize anti-ship ambushes there. Such tactics have proven themselves in the partisan formations of the Hussites in Yemen against the Saudi and Emirate fleets. Now it intends to take over and the US Marine Corps.

So you understand where the Houthis and the US budget are? But this "strategy" says one thing - the US Navy is no longer capable of fighting with anyone - now the Marines themselves will be for it

[Chaldon48]

Let them learn to swim in flippers, and oo are used to sitting in cabins!

[Old26]

Quote: Gregory_45

April 2019, Yekaterinburg. On the streets - these are the "gantrucks" with DShK (!!!) and ZU-23-2. Apparently, they have been preparing for a long time ...

Last year's parade in Stavropol included Kamazs with ZU-23-2 units from the 34th motorized rifle mountain brigade. A few years earlier, KAMAZ trucks with mortars installed in the back were at the parade ...
In some situation, such vehicles are more profitable than standard armor. Here it is necessary without fanaticism. Now, as far as I have heard, in a couple of mountain brigades of the district, units are being formed that will be equipped (not completely, of course, battalions, but only part of them) with UAZ-Patriot vehicles with modules installed on them (KKP, ATGM, MANPADS.)

[yfast]

These cars need elite carriers and elite shooters. 9.

[Protos]

Ukrainians have quarantined ... everything is in bricks with V @ cp @ li uho

[Grits]

Quote from S.S.R.

The article says that the truck is cheaper and can carry more ammunition and has great advantages in moving along the intersection, less weight. What's the bust?

Moreover, you can remove the ZSUShka from the truck and it again turns from a combat vehicle into a regular vehicle with its own functions. But does it make sense to book a truck?

[Shuttle]

- Eh, the Rostachka tachanka! Our pride and beauty!

[Camille]

And why is it proud? Even with broads, the armor is stronger

[Shuttle]

Quote: Camille

And why is it proud? Even with broads, the armor is stronger

Is a song.

[sanik2020]

In Afghanistan, the army was also equipped with advanced weapons, but much turned out to be useless.
So I had to hurry to invent something to which the minds of designers and generals did not reach, one METLA which was worth it.

[ccsr]

Quote: sanik2020

So I had to hurry to invent something to which the minds of designers and generals did not reach, one METLA which was worth it.

Yes, this was the case, and indeed then a lot had to be changed in different equipment and weapons. But this was due to the fact that the Soviet Army was not preparing for a large-scale war in mountain conditions, and therefore what was in service simply did not meet those conditions, because the army was mainly prepared for two theater of operations - the European and the Far Eastern.

[Alexfly]

But there is not enough mind to cover the shooters from the oncoming fire ....

[seagull]

Zuushki 23e on 66 "lawns" were popular in the 1st Chechen ... The sides were "armored" with sandbags and "armor" over the doors. Not even 25 years had passed to reflect on the experience ...

[EvilLion]

It is not a matter of deliberation; all this has long been known; it is precisely the introduction of purely counterguerrilla means in the army, sharpened for a great war.

[EvilLion]

Gan-truck is eternal, especially since in the absence of WMD and threats of shelling from buildings, you can do without a completely closed building.