About the Soviet-Finnish military confrontation during the Second World War

March 13, 1940, exactly 80 years ago, ended the Soviet-Finnish (aka Soviet-Finnish or "winter") war.

Until now, historians cannot agree on the losses of the parties during that war. According to some reports, the USSR lost only 120 thousand people who were killed and died from wounds and diseases, and the Finnish side suffered losses of about 90 thousand dead. Other evidence suggests that the Soviet Union lost almost three times as much as Finland between November 1939 and March 1940.

The disputes of historians are also connected with the question of how much the losses incurred by the USSR were commensurate with what was "gained" when the Moscow Treaty of 1940 was signed.

From this topic a question arises related to the entry of Finland into the war against the Soviet Union on the side of Nazi Germany.

In the program “Archival revolution” on the Tactic Media channel, the narration of a young Russian historian Denis Popov was presented, who shared important information about exactly how the Red Army and Finnish troops opposed each other from 1941 to 1944. The historian presents materials, including from his book, devoted to this issue.

The plot on the mentioned channel:

Comments

[Deck]

Denis Popov is a 1st year student at the Institute of History, Political and Social Sciences of PetrSU, an aspiring historian, nominee for the National Literary Prize "Writer of the Year - 2015", winner of the All-Russian Olympiad for schoolchildren and already the author of three books! 17 years

[Insurgent]

I am trying to find documentary evidence of the participation of Finnish engineering units in the construction of the defense line for the Wehrmacht in the period 1941-42.
General information, at the level of rumors comes across, no documents yet.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Insurgent

I am trying to find documentary evidence of the participation of Finnish engineering units in the construction of the defense line for the Wehrmacht in the period 1941-42.

I missed the key point - During the counter-offensive of the Red Army near Moscow.

[svoit]

A strange argument about what to call a war, it seems clear that they fought with the state and not with the nation. she was very friendly with her

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: svoit

A strange argument about what to call a war, it seems clear that they fought with the state and not with the nation. she was very friendly with her

Another liberal twist. There was no Russian-Japanese, French-Prussian, Greek-Turkish, but there were Russian-Japanese, French-Prussian, Greek-Turkish and Soviet-Finnish. Fighting peoples, accordingly processed by propaganda, and not the state. States can declare war, and ..... people (nation) will stay at home?

[Sergey Medvedev]

So I did not wait for the figures on the losses of the parties on this front. Although Popov studied this issue too. Only the casualties of our Air Force are voiced.

[Magus]

Denis Popov in his article "75 years since the end of the Winter War" writes:
According to the Session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR dated March 26, 1940, the losses of the Red Army soldiers amounted to 48 killed and 475 wounded. According to the reports of the troops on March 158, 863 (two days after the end of the war), the Red Army losses amounted to 15 irretrievable losses of which: 1940 died and died in hospitals, 95 were missing, 348 were injured.
https://www.proza.ru/2015/03/13/1852

[Sergey Medvedev]

Thank. But in this video, the emphasis was on the war with the Finns of 1941-1944. You gave data for 1939-1940. And even they are at odds. The figures of enemy losses are not given at all. In my opinion, historians are only engaged in chatter.

[Magus]

Excuse me. For some reason I thought that you were asking about the war of 1939-1940.
Try reading this article "Losses of the Red Army troops during the Finnish war of 1941-1944", written by him, Denis Popov,
https://www.proza.ru/2016/10/16/2003
From D. Popov's article "Losses of the Red Army troops during the Finnish war of 1941-1944":

Thus, we can talk about approximately 170 thousand irretrievable human losses of the Red Army during the hostilities of the Soviet-Finnish war of 1941-1944, with the predominance of the dead, dead and missing. This number does not include the loss of partisans, deceased prisoners of war and civilians. We can say exactly about 167,846 irretrievable losses of the Red Army, of which the majority are dead, dead, missing, captured. This exact number does not include the loss of certain parts of the Red Army after June 21, 1944 on the Karelian Isthmus, the loss of the 23rd Army from May 1, 1942 to June 9, 1944, the loss of the 7th Army from September 1 to 25, 1941 and some other losses military units.
Moreover, the collection “On both sides of the Karelian Front: documents and materials” provides slightly different data. According to the table (numbered 15) on page 555, the losses of the Finnish Armed Forces during the Soviet-Finnish War of 1941-1944 amounted to 66,044 soldiers who died and disappeared.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Thanks again. When I ask ourselves to understand this issue, I will look and find a lot myself. Here I expressed dissatisfaction with the authors of the video, which I spent 1 hour 14 minutes of my time. The figure never heard. A schmogger blogger invited a student and they chatted for more than an hour. I feel sorry for the time spent on them.

[Popov Denis]

Greetings. The lecture was introductory, if you want to hear specific figures on the Finnish war of 1941-44, write to me by mail [email protected], I will send you my book just on this topic. This, in fact, is a statistical compilation on the numerical strength and combat composition of the troops of the KarF, 7th OA, 23rd A of the LenF.

[Popov Denis]

Hello! Popov writes to you, discussed in this discussion. I wrote this article 5 years ago, I didn’t know much then, because I was just starting to deal with this topic. These losses are greatly underestimated, real, according to Yu. M. Kilin, amounted to 138,5 thousand. I trust this number the most.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Good afternoon. 138 thousand is it just the Finns? And taking into account the Germans? And ours for the same period? When looking at such studies, I would like to see the results of work in numbers from both opposing sides. Who attracted how many people and what losses? Finns + Germans operating in Finland. Our + English air regiment. Who used how many weapons (tanks, guns, aircraft). What are the losses on both sides. What are the views of other historians on these issues, which ones can be believed, and who are simply lying. You have shown that you have tables somewhere in the brochure. Well, it was necessary to voice the information. Maybe with calculations, in short. The story should be impartial and dry, like mathematics. And just as accurate. I think so. Instead, we have a lot of "historians", even with advanced degrees, who pour water. They write and talk about the personal qualities of individuals, about their mutual intrigues and so on. And no numbers. Just a drama on historical themes. These are the desires. Good luck with your work.

[Popov Denis]

138,5 thousand is the loss of the Red Army during the Winter War, and not the war of 1941-44. By the losses in the war of 41-44, which I dealt with - all the tables are in the book. Finnish losses are indicated there, but German ones are not added to them. I have to tackle this issue, but I still can’t escape into the Bundestag.

[Peter is not the first]

It is too late to legally punish, but we must remember and remind them ourselves!

[knn54]

And without the "Winter War" Finland would have sided with the Nazis - the Finns had territorial (and ideological) claims to the USSR after the FIRST Soviet-Finnish war of 1918-1920.

[Tuzik]

Quote: knn54

And without the "Winter War" Finland would have sided with the Nazis, the Finns had territorial (and ideological) claims to the USSR

Is it written somewhere, or do you expect?