The Disciples of Khair ad Din Barbarossa

The Disciples of Khair ad Din Barbarossa

Hyr ad Din Barbarossa, which was described in the article Islamic Pirates of the Mediterranean, became the most famous leader of the Barbary pirates, but even after his death there were people who worthily continued the work of this admiral. One of them was Sinan Pasha, the Great Jew from Smyrna, mentioned in a previous article.


Sinan Pasha



He prowls the sea - either the wolf or the jackal.
Heart tremble and mouth go numb.
“If we don’t drown, we’ll burn it!
Save yourself who can! "- and overboard soon:
He goes after the prey of Sinan el-Sanim,
Cruel pirate, bloodthirsty Jew.
Like a hog, he’s fat, a freak and an eunuch,
But the heart is iron in loose breasts.
You are a fisherman, a tramp, a soldier or a merchant -
Not death - it means the slave chain is ahead.
That choice is uncomplicated and irresistible:
Here the galley is flying predatory - and on it
On the black gallery - Sinan el-Sanim,
Cruel pirate, bloodthirsty Jew.
Goods - to the market, and dishes - a prize.
And the captives hear a silent buzz:
Slave Market, Algeria, Tunisia,
Beauties - to the Sultan, to Seral, to Istanbul.
He is greedy, he is relentless to captives,
And the saber sparkles faster and faster.
Sinan el-Sanim gets drunk with blood
Cruel pirate, bloodthirsty Jew!

(Daniel Kluger.)

This Ottoman pirate and admiral was a descendant of Marrans - Jews expelled from the united kingdoms of Castile and Aragon after the publication of the infamous Alhambra edict there (dated March 31, 1492). The tragic events of those years were described in detail in the article. The Great Inquisitor of Torquemada. Some of these Jews, by order of the Ottoman Sultan Bayazid II, were evacuated to the territory of the empire on the ships of Admiral Kemal Reis. They were settled in Istanbul, Edirne, Thessaloniki, Izmir, Manisa, Bursa, Gelibole, Amasya and in some other cities. The family of the future corsair was in Edirne. Having accepted Islam, he took the name Sinan ad-Din Yusuf.

Sinan began his career as a pirate on the ship of the famous Khair ad Din Barbarossa, but over time he himself became the admiral of the corsair squadron - and very impressive: the number of his subordinates sometimes reached 6 thousand people. On his flag, Sinan placed a six-pointed star, which the Turks called the “Seal of Suleiman”.

Among the Maghreb pirates, there was a widespread belief about Sinan's magical abilities. It was said, for example, that with the help of a crossbow butt he could determine the height of the Sun above the horizon (in fact, this crossbow was a kind of sextant - “the rod of Jacob”).

The squadrons of the Great Jew became the horror of all the Christian coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, but he was especially glorified for its capture of the Tunisian harbor, the narrow entrance to which is La Goletta ("Throat"), was called so because it held Tunisia by the throat. It happened on August 25, 1534. Under the command of Sinan, a whole fleet of 100 ships then appeared.


The Ottoman base in Tunisia jeopardized shipping throughout the Mediterranean, and therefore the next year, Emperor Charles V moved to Tunisia a huge fleet of 400 ships and a 30-strong international army, which included Spaniards, Germans, Genoese, mercenaries from other states Italy, the Maltese knights. Karl attached such importance to this expedition that he personally headed it, saying before sailing that he was just “the standard bearer of Christ”. On June 15, 1535, his fleet approached Tunisia, where Barbarossa himself was located, and the fort, built at the narrowest point of La Goletta, was defended by Sinan, under whose command there were 5 thousand people. Sinan stayed on for 24 days, thrice made sorties, but the walls of the fortress were destroyed by the fire of the cannons of the Maltese 8-deck galleon, which “threw” shells weighing 40 pounds. The fort fell, but Barbarossa and the retreating Sinan were still defending in Tunisia.

They say that Barbarossa was ready at that moment to order the execution of 20 thousand Christian slaves, but Sinan dissuaded him, saying: "This monstrous crime will forever put us outside of human society."

During the decisive assault under Charles V, a horse was killed, smiling, he said: "The bullet never took the Emperor before."


Peter Paul Rubens. Portrait of Charles V. Courto Institute of Art, London

According to contemporaries, Barbarossa also fought like a lion, personally killing many enemy soldiers, but the forces were unequal.


Hyr ad Din Barbarossa

At the head of the last four-thousandth detachment, Barbarossa and Sinan retreated to Algeria through the desert, and the “crusaders” robbed the city for three days, it came to the point that the soldiers and the former Christian slaves freed by them began to fight for booty on the streets of the city. So many Tunisians died so much that even some Catholic chroniclers later called this massacre "the most shameful act of the century." It went to the Jews, who "had no salvation on the day of God's wrath."

In 1538, Sinan participated in the victorious naval battle of Barbarossa at Preveze, which was described in an article Islamic Pirates of the Mediterranean.

And inspired by the success of Charles V, he decided to deliver the next blow to Algeria. But it seemed that after the shameful Tunisian massacre, the heavens themselves turned away from the Christian emperor: on October 23, 1541, a terrible storm began during the landing, destroying many ships and causing the death of about 8 thousand soldiers and sailors. The Moorish cavalry, which attacked the Spaniards from the surrounding hills, almost threw them into the sea. Charles V personally, with a sword in his hand, tried to stop the running soldiers, but was forced to give an order to load onto the surviving ships. Three thousand Spaniards were captured.

As part of this expedition was Hernan Cortes, who in Mexico was on the verge of death several times and saw something else like that.


He persuaded the emperor not to despair and give an order for a new landing, but the downhearted Charles no longer believed in victory. The Spanish fleet left the shores of Algeria.

Among the inhabitants of Algeria, there were 2 thousand Jews who had heard about what happened to their tribesmen in Tunisia. For a long time they celebrated this Spanish failure with a three-day fasting and subsequent holiday.

After this victory, Sinan was appointed commander of the Ottoman fleet The Indian Ocean, which was based in Suez and fought against the Portuguese.

One of the sons of the Great Jew was captured and ended up on the island of Elba, where he was baptized. Sinan could not help him, since he was in the Red Sea, but in the Mediterranean was Khair ad Din Barbarossa. In 1544, he entered into negotiations with the goal of freeing the son of his comrade-in-arms, having not achieved success, captured the city of Piombino. And the far more accommodating governor of the island gave him a boy.

Sinan's other son, Sepher Reis, was also an admiral of the Indian Navy. In 1560, he defeated the Portuguese squadron of Admiral Cristvo Pereira Homen. In 1565, Sefer fell ill and died in Aden.

Sinan Pasha returned to the Mediterranean in 1551 and became governor of Algeria. He captured Tripoli and the territory of modern Libya. The Maltese knights captured during that military campaign, Sinan brought to Constantinople, held in chains in front of the Sultan - and freed them.

In May 1553, Sinan led a squadron of 150 ships (including 20 French!) To the coast of Italy and Sicily, ending this campaign with the capture of Corsica.

There is no more information about the “exploits” of this admiral, so some researchers believe that he died after returning from this expedition. But there is evidence that the Great Jew died in 1558 - in the same year as Emperor Charles V:

He is now devoted to the possessions of others,
In an underwater paradise, in the core of the seas.
He is quiet and calm, Sinan el-Sanim,
Cruel pirate, bloodthirsty Jew.

(Daniel Kluger.)

Another “disciple” of Khair ad-Din Barbarossa was the famous Turgut-reis - a native of a Greek-speaking peasant family living near the city of Bodrum.

Turgut Reis



Monument to Turgut-reis in the town, which has been named after him since 1972 - the embankment of Sabanci Park


Turgutreis on a map of Turkey

Turgut (in some sources - Dragut) was born around 1485 and was 10 years younger than Khair ad-Din Barbarossa. He began military service at the age of 12: he studied to be a gunner and in this position took part in the Egyptian campaign of Selim I. After conquering this country, he remained in Egypt; in Alexandria, he entered the service of Sinan (which we already spoke about in this article). Soon he rose to the rank of captain of a pirate brigantine, bought his ship and went into "free sailing". Over time, he exchanged this ship for the galliot, and in 1520 he entered the service of Khair ad Din Barbarossa, who praised the talents of the new ally, placing him at the head of a squadron of 12 ships.

In 1526, Turgut-reis captured the Sicilian fortress of Capo Passero, and until 1533 robbed the coast of southern Italy and Sicily with impunity, captured several fortresses on the coast of Albania and the Venetian fortress of Candia in Crete, attacked merchant ships between Spain and Italy. In May 1533, his squadron numbered 22 ships. And in the battle of Preveza (1538, see article Islamic Pirates of the Mediterranean), Turgut already commanded 20 galleys and 10 galliotes.

In 1539, he replaced his former commander Sinan Pasha (who was sent to Suez) as governor of Djerba. Ironically, his castle on this island was the castle built in 1289 by Roger Doria, the ancestor of the famous adversary of the Ottoman squadrons and pirates of the Maghreb, Admiral Andrea Doria. Turgut got married to Djerba, but he did not forget about “affairs”. In 1540, captured several Genoese ships, plundered the islands of Gozo and Capraia, but on June 15 his squadron, which stopped for repairs in Corsica, was attacked and defeated by the combined fleet of Gianettino Doria (admiral's nephew), Giorgio Doria and Gentile Orsini. Turgut was captured in which he spent 4 years. He was liberated by Khair ad Din Barbarossa, who besieged Genoa in 1544. One of the conditions for lifting the blockade, he set the liberation of Turgut. The mediator was the Maltese knight Jean Parisot de la Valette, who in 13 years will become the Grand Master of Hospitallers.


Jean de la Valette, by Laurent Cars

Andrea Doria agreed to release the corsair for an impressive amount of 3500 gold ducats. Contemporaries called this deal the most successful purchase of Barbarossa, because for 4 years Turgut missed his favorite work so much that in the same year he “recaptured” this money. Taking command of some of Barbarossa's ships, he immediately took the Corsican city of Bonifacio, attacked the island of Gozo and captured several Maltese ships near it. The following year, Turgut sacked the Italian cities of Monterosso, Corniglia, Manarola and Riomaggiore, Rappalo and Levante, in 1546 the Tunisian cities of Sfax, Sousse and Monastir. After these victories, satisfied Ottomans began to call him the Sword of Islam.

When the great Admiral Khair ad-Din Barbarossa died in July 1546, everyone began to consider Turgut-Reis as his successor.


Turgut Reis, a monument in Istanbul

In 1547, the new hero and idol of the Ottoman Empire and the Maghreb attacked Malta, Apulia and Calabria. The following year he was appointed Baylerbey (viceroy) of Algeria: this appointment he noted as an attack on the Campania. At the same time, he “thanked” La Valetta, who was then the governor of Tripoli: he captured the Malta galley “La Caterinetta”, which brought the knight 7 thousand escudos intended to finance the work to strengthen the walls of this city. It was not possible to raise new funds, and in 1549 La Valette returned to Malta.

Turgut-reis continued to "hero" at sea: in 1549 he plundered Rappalo, in 1550 - captured Mahdia, Monastir, Sousse and Tunisia, and then attacked the coast of Sardinia and Spain.

Andrea Doria and his Maltese allies led by Claude de la Sangle in October of this year recaptured Mahdia and blocked the Turgut squadron off the island of Djerba. The pirate admiral got out of the situation by ordering to dig a canal to another bay of the island, and not only escaped from the enemy, but also defeated the squadron, which was going to the aid of Doria and la Sangli, capturing 2 warships.

On April 30, 1551, Suleiman I appointed the lucky corsair commander of the entire fleet of the Ottoman Empire, conferring on him the rank of Kapudan Pasha. He led 100 warships that year, along with his old acquaintance and former commander Sinan Pasha, walked well in the Mediterranean Sea: he plundered the eastern coast of Sicily, attacked Malta and captured the island of Gozo (about 5 thousand Christians were captured). In August of the same year Tripoli was taken, of which Turgut became the sanjakbei. Until the end of the year, he managed to sack Liguria, and then - captured the Misurata region in Libya.

In 1552, Turgut, like Barbarossa, became an ally of the French king (this time Henry II) in the war against Emperor Charles V: for 300 thousand gold livres, the sultan kindly agreed to “rent out” his victorious fleet, led by a successful admiral, for 2 years .

The new Kapudan Pasha did not fail: he plundered many cities, defeated the squadron of his old enemy Andrea Doria near Naples and the combined Spanish-Italian fleet of Charles V off the island of Ponza.


Spanish galeas


Venetian galkeass, 1571

The victories were so impressive that Turgut was appointed the Baylerbay of the Mediterranean Sea.

The following year, he captured the Calabrian cities of Corrotone and Castello, ravaged Sicily, Sardinia, Capri and Corsica (in order to recapture Corsica from the French occupying it, the Genoese needed a 15-thousand army). The French king "encouraged" Turgut 30 thousand ducats.

In 1554, Turgut “visited” Apulia, and then captured Ragusa, in 1555 he again attacked Corsica (Bastia was taken), Sardinia, Calabria and Liguria (San Remo fell here). However, the ungrateful Frenchmen expressed dissatisfaction, reproaching the admiral for "slowness." As a result, Piyale Pasha was appointed to the place of the fleet commander (about him in the next article), and Turgut was sent to Tripoli in 1556. Here he was engaged in the construction and reconstruction of walls around the city and the port, but he did not forget the sea trade either: he captured Gafsa in Tunisia, went to Liguria, Calabria and Apulia, and in 1558 robbed Menorca and the Balearic Islands. In 1559 he participated in repelling the Spanish attack on Algeria and crushed the uprising in Tripoli.

In 1560, the squadrons of Turgut, Piyale Pasha and Uluja Ali defeated the Spanish fleet of Philip II, who captured the island of Djerba. Aged Andrea Doria was so shocked by the news of the defeat of this fleet, commanded by the son of his nephew Giannettito - Giovanni, that he became seriously ill and never recovered: he died on November 25, 1560. The death of the illustrious admiral made a grave impression in all Christian countries, where they now doubted the very possibility of confronting the Ottomans in the Mediterranean Sea.

The following year, Turgut and another hero of this era, Uluj Ali, attacked the islands of the western part of the Mediterranean Sea, captured seven Maltese galleys and besieged Naples with a fleet of 35 ships.

In 1562, Turgut made a successful attack on Crete.

This admiral was killed in 1565 during the assault on the Maltese fort St. Elm.


Antonio Laflery. Malta Defense Scheme

He was killed either by a cannonball, or by a stone fragment falling into his eye, and was buried in Tripoli. At this time he was already 80 years old.


"The death of Turgut." Detail of the mural “La presa di S. Elmo”, Grand Hall of the Grandmasters Palace, La Valletta

You may be surprised, but on the island of Malta in the town of Sliema, the area where once the first battery of Turgut was located, which fired at Fort St. Elm, is named after him - Dragut Point.


La Valletta, view from above. Top left Manoel Island, top right - Dragut Point


View of La Valletta from Dragut Point

In the next article, we continue the story of the famous Islamic corsairs and great admirals of the Mediterranean Sea.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 05: 44 New
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    Thank you very much Valery for continuing the topic!
    And I propose to return to our old topic!
    Which is better?
    Finish your life from libations and an excess of female affection

    Or
    He was killed either by a cannonball, or by a stone fragment falling into his eye, and was buried in Tripoli. At this time he was already 80 years old.

    laughing dilemma!!!
    1. VLR
      VLR 16 March 2020 06: 41 New
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      Different types of people. Viking, a man like Karl XII or Timur, will of course choose the path of Turgut. But Louis XIV or Catherine II will not deny themselves carnal pleasures, like Barbarossa. There is a third type - a fanatic, like Torquemada or Jean Calvin. And there are ordinary people, the vast majority who, if not touched, will simply live without trying to "make history." And what is better or worse ... Here, probably, you need to look at the situation. Sometimes only a fanatic can “pull out” and save the state. Although, more often, of course, his rule is a disaster for his subjects.
      Sometimes the state needs a “Viking” - provided that it “leaves” on time, not having time to lime the endless wars of the entire male population of their country.
      1. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 07: 11 New
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        "Each time has its own orders" (C)
        1. VLR
          VLR 16 March 2020 07: 26 New
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          By the way, an ordinary, unremarkable person who accidentally finds himself at the head of the state is often worse than a “Viking” or “fanatic. Vivid examples are Nicholas II and Gorbachev.
          1. cat Rusich 18 March 2020 00: 43 New
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            It’s not by chance that M. S. Gorbachev “went into the secretary general’s office”. At one time, M. S. Gorbachev began climbing the "career ladder" - whoever appointed him (M. S. Gorbachev) to higher posts ... How did M. S. Gorbachev begin to conduct public affairs when he became the Secretary General? another conversation ... Nicholas 2 heir to the throne after his birth and from childhood he was brought up and taught - only what was taught and how was it raised? - a question for his teachers, accountants and family ... One cannot accidentally win the lottery either - first you need to get a lottery ticket - a conscious step ... Here we recall the laundress who became empress of the Russian Empire - Marta Skuvronskaya, married to Cruz - she is also Catherine 1 - the wife of Peter 1, successfully married ... the city of Yekaterinburg is named after her.
    2. Olgovich 16 March 2020 07: 51 New
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      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Which is better?
      Finish your life from libations and an excess of female affection

      Or
      He was killed either by a cannonball, or by a stone fragment falling into his eye, and was buried in Tripoli. At that time he was already 80 years old.

      In 80 years is better, I think, is the second. recourse

      B. High:
      It's better than vodka and colds
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 09: 44 New
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        Olegovich, so Barbarossa also rested in the eighth ten!
        1. Olgovich 16 March 2020 10: 45 New
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          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Barbarossa also rested on eighth ten!

          Vladislav, the eighth dozen and ninth dozen are, as they say in Odessa, "two big differences" hi
      2. vladcub 16 March 2020 18: 13 New
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        Olgovich, I agree with you: 80 and more is better on the battlefield than colds. Brighter death
    3. Bar1 16 March 2020 08: 58 New
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      Barbarros turned out to be Barbarrus.
      from Latin
      -beard -rufus barbam, so there’s probably another translation here.
      Yes, this one
      -Ariadenus is something Aryan.
      In general, history knows another Barbaros is
      -Friedrich Barbarosa-12th Century. it’s also red-bearded, but the nickname is already from Italian. So it went down in history, and the plan for invading the USSR was called.
      There is also the pope
      -Barbarini
      If you look at the nature of modern North Africa, then the impression is simply painful. There are no forests left from which you can build ships, only palm trees, cacti and the upcoming desert. The desert comes and all the inhabitants are gradually moving to Europe.
      If there were forests in the state of Barbaria, then there are no more forests in the states of Libya, Tunisia, Algeria.

      1. vladcub 16 March 2020 18: 29 New
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        The bar is perhaps the only time today when I almost agree with you.
        1) in addition to Hyr ad Dean Barbarossa, there was also Frederick Barbarossa. It so happened that we know more about Frederick than about Khair ad Din Barbarossa. Thanks to Valery for introducing us to another.
        2) "the desert is approaching and all the inhabitants are gradually moving to Europe" in order to nibble Europe like locusts
        1. Bar1 16 March 2020 21: 43 New
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          Quote: vladcub
          The bar is perhaps the only time today when I almost agree with you.


          I post maps of Barbaria every message. It is quite natural that there should be some kind of Barbara in Barbary, and here also Rus.
          The official story is stingy with facts and contradictory. Even in the 19th century these countries were not called Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, but were called Barbaria, but Ryzhov stubbornly oppressed his line.
          My questions as to why Turkey’s powerful fleet didn’t go beyond Gibraltar are cited by Turkish galleons drowning Anglic fishing vessels, as if such fleets were created for hunting fishermen. Isn’t it stupid? This is called your story.
          Barbaria is, of course, what was distorted by the OI and was called barbarians, and it all goes back to the time of Rome, although Barbaria is present on maps of the 19th century. There is no faith in such stories.
          1. Kronos 16 March 2020 23: 36 New
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            Clearly, all historians again lied
    4. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 10: 08 New
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      Finish your life from libations and an excess of female affection

      I would prefer that. About ninety years old. The main thing is also on your own island. wink
      dilemma!!!

      the real dilemma is the "count or thong." This is just a problem. fellow Until now, we cannot come to a common denominator with Astra and Phil! request sad
      Monument to Turgut-reis in the town, which has been named after him since 1972 - the embankment of Sabanci Park

      that's interesting ... each country has its own heroes .. what
      To the author: Valery - thanks! hi drinks
      1. Catfish 16 March 2020 10: 35 New
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        ... the real dilemma is the "count or thong." This is just a problem.


        Nikolay, hello and don’t worry. hi Vick Nick and I tried to convince Olegitch to continue this topic, and he promised, and even already picked up a “very expressive sculpture” for the future article with the forerunner of thongs - a loincloth. So with time everything will be, and you and Phil and Vera will come to a common denominator. smile
        1. Phil77 16 March 2020 10: 43 New
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          Uh, no! I don’t want, I don’t want, I won’t. stop laughing stop stop laughing
          1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 10: 58 New
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            Uh, no! I don’t want, I don’t want, I won’t.

            how is it, Sergey? I have to! stop We still have to convince Valery Ryzhov. wink drinks
        2. Phil77 16 March 2020 13: 24 New
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          Hello Konstantin! There will be an article from V.O.pro-chronicle! laughing
          1. Catfish 16 March 2020 13: 47 New
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            Everything will be, once Olegovich promised, he keeps his words.
      2. vladcub 16 March 2020 18: 40 New
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        Nikolay, deal with Phil or Astra yourself about a string - that’s a purely intimate thing.
        Now, with regard to libations and female affection, this falls out 1 out of 1000, and the rest is better on the "battlefield"
        1. Phil77 16 March 2020 18: 59 New
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          But I didn’t understand this ?! For some reason, I should understand the topic of women's clothing ????? They found a specialist, the right word! am am am
          1. Svarog51 16 March 2020 20: 45 New
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            Namesake hi Note that the fig leaf was attached to something. Well, to a piece of creeper or to a linen thread. Nobody knows about it, but how was it worn? And this is the prototype of the string. The ball on the field of opponents, let them mind. To complicate the task - Eve in a bra. Bikini?
            1. Phil77 16 March 2020 20: 58 New
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              know comments! know comments! know comments! am am am mockery !!!!
              1. Svarog51 16 March 2020 21: 11 New
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                I am foreign - neither be nor me. request Let's go in Russian - at least it will be clear. yes
                1. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 15 New
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                  C'mon, let's go right away. Everything is correct. The topic has simply become exhausted.
                  1. Svarog51 16 March 2020 21: 33 New
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                    Commander's liking and understandable. Imported - nicht fershteen. Adam had something to attach a leaflet to. With Eva - only invent thongs, in any other way. request
                    I wanted to add a song - I did not find it on YouTube. Gennady Sokol - Three tankmen. Option to the topic.
                  2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 23: 55 New
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                    Just the topic is already tired.

                    yeah right now! stop So, Sergey, I’m just going to start persuading Anton to go work as a model of an antique statue, and Sergey’s getting off the topic! Already even Shpakovsky promised to write an article, with me, you know, the sitter (Anton) disappears in vain, and the initiators of everything "tired them"! request We still esteemed Valery Ryzhov conduct a comparative experiment! laughing drinks
                    if tired - I won’t. recourse chur me! I'm a scrubber! wink and with you - at least thongs, at least pirates to discuss with a serious face! drinks
                    1. Phil77 17 March 2020 08: 25 New
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                      Let Nikolai better discuss pirates, corsairs, filibusters and other violators of the law! Still, it is much more interesting! laughing good
                      1. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 09: 02 New
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                        Still, it is much more interesting!

                        well! drinks
        2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 23: 49 New
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          Now, with regard to libations and female affection, this falls out 1 out of 1000, and the rest is better on the "battlefield"

          Svyatoslav, yes, I’m sideways ... I’ll dream .... repeat drinks
          Nikolay, deal with Phil or Astra yourself about a string - that’s a purely intimate thing.

          Very intimate - not visible at all! soldier drinks
    5. Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 10: 19 New
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      Greetings to the noble assembly. smile hi
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      dilemma!!!

      Vlad, it’s not even a dilemma, but a “polilemma” or something ... smile
      I am deeply convinced that it is best to make ends by doing what you love, no matter what the matter is, and there are no two options here. For example, I believe that it is best to step onto the rainbow bridge right after the whistle about the end of the final match of the World Cup in which Russia defeats Brazil with a score of 6: 5, and Russia scores its last two goals in three compensated minutes. smile
      Someone prefers to meet old Kondratia, on a quiet September day at the edge of the forest, sitting on a stump with a full basket of ceps, and someone just wants to sleep and not wake up.
      So here, to each his own, the main thing is that the process of transition from a state of "alive" to a state of "died" should not be delayed.
      1. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 11: 04 New
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        And someone is drowned in a barrel with malvasia.
        1. Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 11: 42 New
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          Quote: 3x3zsave
          in a barrel with malvasia.

          That family was, if you think about it ...
          Grandfather, Richard Coninsburg died on the chopping block, his brother - at the Battle of Agincourt, is almost the only one. Dad, it’s kind of like in battle, but then his head was cut off and hung over the city gates. The older brother died of gluttony and debauchery, the second oldest was killed while being taken prisoner, the younger brother was killed under Bosworth, the son was executed, two nephews were strangled quietly, either the truth in the barrel with malvasia was drowned, or simply strangled ...
          This, I understand, is life ...
          1. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 11: 53 New
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            And don’t talk! It’s just that “10 little ones” are some kind of ...
          2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 12: 21 New
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            Grandfather Richard Coninsburg died on the block

            in more detail, please. Who is it? and what is malvasia? request
            1. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 12: 52 New
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              Wine is like that. According to legend, sentenced to death by Richard III, George Platangenet chose execution through drowning in a barrel with malvasia.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 16: 26 New
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                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Wine is like that. According to legend, sentenced to death by Richard III, George Platangenet chose execution through drowning in a barrel with malvasia.

                I don’t remember how many of the "cousins" of Richard (the kings of England) were drunk with molten lead!
                So, besides the “stake or thong” there is a third option “count through thong” !!! And even the fourth - (maybe not the saddest) without strings and a stake!
                Although, in the absence of derivatives, you can replace the count with scrap, and thongs with “family shorts with linen elastic” !!!
                1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 50 New
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                  Although, in the absence of derivatives, you can replace the count with scrap, and thongs with “family shorts with linen elastic” !!!

                  this is to Edward II. I don’t know if the thongs had managed to remove his Maltravers comrades, but they inserted a red-hot poker. what
                2. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 18: 06 New
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                  Opinion of the officer and gentleman! laughing
                3. Astra wild 16 March 2020 22: 07 New
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                  Kotya, I’ll disappoint you: in that era they did not know men's underpants with elastic. In my opinion, the gum appeared in the late 19th and early 20th centuries
                  1. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 42 New
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                    Kitty, I will disappoint you

                    Faith, his name is Vladislav, and that’s exactly what “a real colonel” is! good more real - no! love
            2. Catfish 16 March 2020 13: 27 New
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              Yes, Nikolai, I join you for the omissions with strange misunderstandings! am
              1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 13: 42 New
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                Yes, Nikolai, I join you for the omissions with strange misunderstandings!

                here I am about it, Konstantin! soldier These two diplomas with academic degrees, you know, philosophize, but where do we go, dull fun peyzanam? request Malvasia, Plantagenets ... brought shame to everyone! laughing drinks
                There was a fashion for all sorts of vacillations, verbal freedom of thought, the crazy front-winging of youth. And old Gavrila Derzhavin, sitting in his garden on the Fontanka, sang old songs:
                - The Jacobins are damned! Have they brought all kinds of shame from Paris, where are we, Russian people, to go? Though drown ...
                what (V.S. Pikul, "To Each His Own")
                Anton:
                Wine is like that. According to legend, sentenced to death by Richard III, George Platangenet chose execution through drowning in a barrel with malvasia.

                did they really drown him there? good
                two nephews quietly strangled

                as far as I understand, these are princes in the Tower?
                1. Catfish 16 March 2020 13: 56 New
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                  Yeah
                  old Gavrila Derzhavin, sitting in his garden on the Fontanka, drank ... a barrel of malvasia.

                  And after the barrel, it’s all the same who, where and with what stranglehold. laughing
                  1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 05 New
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                    And after the barrel, it’s all the same who, where and with what stranglehold.

                    in place of Gavril Derzhavin, I feel you would not be bored .... wink there it was also possible to call bacchantes .. wink By the way, his mansion is one of the most chic in St. Petersburg. With own small garden! Few were more smart (except for the members of the royal family). hi
                    1. Catfish 16 March 2020 14: 28 New
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                      ... by the way, his mansion is one of the most chic in St. Petersburg. With own small garden! Few were few ...

                      That’s why idleness in thoughts and on Solovki would have, as Ivan Bezdomny said, at once would look at the world differently! laughing
                      And bacchantes ... So where would they be without them, my dear friend! The basis of life! Let's drink for them, and let the bed rest in peace! drinks wink
                2. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 13: 56 New
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                  Well, not in the "amber" same !!!
                  1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 13 New
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                    Well, not in the "amber" same !!!

                    so drowned him in a barrel with malvasia? wink hmm ... translate such a product into some kind of Pallet-oppression! fool would have crushed quietly, and ends in the Thames! stop
                    1. Phil77 16 March 2020 19: 02 New
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                      Quote: Pan Kohanku
                      on some kind of Pallet-oppression! would have crushed quietly, and ends in the Thames!

                      Yes, not Pallet-oppression, Nikolai, but -Politprosveta !!!! laughing
                      1. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 47 New
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                        Yes, not Pallet-oppression, Nikolai, but -Politprosveta !!!!

                        I once called Baobab in an article by Murat, as they proved to me in the comments that he wasn’t baobab, bonvivan! request Well, I agree - and this too .. like a horse’s tears, so in a moment - baobab and bonvivan, only curls flutter! wink drinks Do you know Anton? here - one-to-one, just without a horse! drinks set up - "tank", "tank" ... laughing Dashing hussar, here he is! You haven’t used it as intended yet! drinks
                  2. Catfish 16 March 2020 14: 29 New
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                    "Amber" ... Is this a new booze? drinks
                    1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 34 New
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                      "Amber" ... Is this a new booze?

                      I don’t know about a drink, but the venturer Heliogabal somehow ordered to bring nightingale tongues with pearls to his feast. Maybe amber is a snack? wink
                      1. Catfish 16 March 2020 14: 36 New
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                        If the Hunter is hunting, then stop and choke. laughing
                      2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 52 New
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                        If the Hunter is hunting, then stop and choke.

                        probably someone broke their teeth, and someone choked!
                      3. Catfish 16 March 2020 15: 02 New
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                        Kohl, let's better about the bacchanal, or about our legendary tank on a tropical island along with mulattos. smile
                      4. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 15: 31 New
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                        "Bacchante rode on the tank,
                        And the crew was pleased
                        But only in the morning, early in the morning,
                        They, in the KVD, passed courage "
                      5. Catfish 16 March 2020 15: 56 New
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                        "We will go, we will rush to the venereal dispensary
                        And we’ll confidently rush straight to the head doctor ... " laughing
              2. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 15: 13 New
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                "Amber" was a little expensive for snacks, mostly "Friendship" was used.
              3. Catfish 16 March 2020 15: 57 New
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                When Iveria was consumed, there were enough cigarettes. drinks
              4. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 16: 03 New
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                I did not find it. request Only Anapa and Slynchev Bryak
              5. Catfish 16 March 2020 16: 09 New
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                Ah, youth, sho you know about real life in the Union! drinks
              6. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 18: 01 New
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                Oh, Uncle Kostya, that's just this "old school" this is not necessary! Dofiga what we know!
              7. Catfish 16 March 2020 18: 44 New
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                That I do not pretend. smile
              8. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 19: 31 New
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                Shy! laughing
              9. Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 45 New
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                Yeah, I ran away. laughing
              10. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 19: 56 New
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                The main thing is to cut a mustache so that the mask does not leak ... Otherwise, what for the undins the drowned Cat ???
              11. Catfish 16 March 2020 20: 14 New
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                Do not be so kind as to worry, we are the Sea Cat, and we have the first class in the third specialization group. They walked, walked on the ground, and in whatever they walked, only with mermaids, alas, only on the shore. wink
    6. Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 20 New
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      Are you talking about three sevens? Perhaps you have heard of such a ditty: "hang out" Solntsedarom?
    7. Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 25 New
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      Incomparable Astra love , "Three Sevens" compared to "Solntsedar", this is paradise nectar. I don’t remember the ditty about him, but in one joke it was said that "the Ku Klux Klan purchased the Suntsedar in order to poison the blacks and paint the fences." hi
    8. Astra wild 16 March 2020 22: 03 New
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      I heard her from one of my father’s comrades.
      Don't waste your time
      Have a Hangover Solntsedarom
    9. Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 04 New
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      It was they who joked so seriously, even the “bruises” could not consume this drink.
  2. alsoclean 16 March 2020 21: 43 New
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    But how ... how ... where is A.G.D.A.M. ?? Great and terrible ..
  3. Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 05 New
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    That's right, Alex! Unforgivable forgetfulness. But you have restored historical justice! drinks
  4. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 00 New
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    I don’t know about a drink, but the venturer Heliogabal somehow ordered to bring nightingale tongues with pearls to his feast. Maybe amber is a snack?

    "Amber" was a little expensive for snacks, mostly "Friendship" was used.

    Heliogabal "Friendship" used? No, I heard that he loved to be “friends” with peasants, but for “Friendship” to have a bite - this is strong for the emperor! good processed cheese and pineapples! drinks
  5. Phil77 16 March 2020 17: 50 New
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    Hi Anton! * Wave *, there was still * Wave *. Use for the same purposes. good
  6. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 18: 41 New
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    Sergei! hi
    And Orbit. But "Friendship" is a classic of the genre !!! Or I'm not a St. Petersburg miniserable!
  7. Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 31 New
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    "Miserable", damn it ... No to say in Russian. Russophobe trilobite! negative
  8. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 22: 25 New
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    Sir, today I am somewhat melancholy in order to adequately (without unnecessary casualties and destruction) respond to such an unworthy noble don’t attack. Postpone satisfaction until tomorrow.
  9. Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 32 New
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    Until tomorrow, you still need to live ... And, basically, right, it's time for the bainki.
    “It’s getting light ...”, Don Pampa non Dau said, looking at the tapestry depicting “Sunset in the steppe”. soldier
  10. Phil77 16 March 2020 18: 44 New
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    Hmm .. * Amber * took, * Wave * took, * Friendship * took. * Orbit *? - did not take! laughing
  11. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 20: 39 New
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    Unlucky "orbit" with royal attention.
  12. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 10 New
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    To be honest, I just don’t remember this processed cheese. All the same * big two * is * Wave * and * Friendship *, more precisely in the reverse order.
  13. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 21: 14 New
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    To be honest, my mood is gloomy and sarcastic now, that’s why everyone should be rude to me ... request
  14. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 17 New
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    In, in! And I have something mood starts to darken!
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 15: 15 New
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    See Roger Zhelyazny, The Chronicles of Amber series, the first novel is called The 9 Princes of Amber. wink
    1. Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 35 New
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      Are you ironic? after about a dozen pages, he gave his mother-in-law "put down bunches of paper" (c). He would go to amber with his writings.
    2. 3x3zsave 17 March 2020 20: 23 New
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      In vain. Although his work doesn’t impress me much, “Night on a lonely October” is a lot !!!
    3. Catfish 17 March 2020 20: 44 New
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      And what is it about, I don’t like all these unrealistic fantasy? Here I read "Doomed City" and for all my phantasmagoria I did not even feel the smell of fiction. Or the same "Beetle in the Anthill." And I will not remember here about Redrick Schuhart. drinks
    4. 3x3zsave 17 March 2020 21: 51 New
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      In short? An alternative version of the serial maniac story.
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 18: 36 New
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    These two diplomas with advanced degrees, you know, philosophize
    Please, sir ???
    “The other day, Captain Mikhailov, dragged a plucked rooster in the presence of the EIV of the Academy of Sciences, claiming that he had read an ancient Greek man Plato just now and was ready to prove the origin of the human race from the winged birds. plagiarized Haylitsky Mr. Darwin.
    PS. Upon closer inspection, this cock turned out to be a chicken, laying an egg, due to a state of nervous, just like it was, the appearance called by the French word "negligee". (From the reports of the First Police Station of the Vasileostrovsky Side)
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 14: 17 New
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    Quote: Sea Cat
    what kind of omissions with strange misunderstandings

    Wars of the Roses.
    We somehow casually went on to discuss the fate of the men of the York house of the noble Plantagenet family. smile
    The founder of the house, Edmund Langley, in my opinion, is the only one who died as a decent person should. His children Richard and Edward - one was executed for treason, the second was suffocated in armor on the Asencourt field, his grandson was killed at Wakefield, great-grandchildren like: Edward IV - died from excesses of bad ones (gluttony of lust, you had to choose one thing smile ), Edward Rutland surrendered there at Wakefield and was unarmed killed by Lord Clifford, George Clarence - the one who was charged with treason and offered to choose death, and he, according to legend, chose a barrel with malvasia, his favorite wine, Richard III died on the Bosworth field, the children of Edward IV died in the Tower under unclear circumstances, Clarence's son was executed by Henry VII, I don’t remember which year.
    1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 27 New
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      Clarence’s son was executed by Henry VII. I don’t remember which year.

      No matter what they do, they don’t go,
      Like on Monday, their mother gave birth ...
      what somehow reminded ... no one cursed them for an hour?
      1. 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 15: 19 New
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        Others cursed, Capetings. Well, Nogare "went the trailer."
        1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 15: 21 New
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          Others cursed, Capetings. Well, Nogare "went the trailer."

          Yeah, and the curse fell only when the virgin Joan of Arc was sent to the fire. Nothing has changed since pagan times: if you want some goodies, sacrifice a virgin!
          1. Catfish 16 March 2020 15: 59 New
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            D'Arc. Nothing has changed since pagan times: if you want some goodies, sacrifice a virgin!

            But is she? Absolutely sure?
          2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 05 New
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            But is she? Absolutely sure?

            Well, Konstantin, if you weren’t around, then it’s possible and sure! yes And if such a sophisticated and cunning venturer was in the visible space from her ..... wink then not at all sure! drinks
          3. Catfish 16 March 2020 16: 14 New
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            We could not stand there, we were not born again. request
            Sources do not give an intelligible answer.
          4. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 17 New
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            Sources do not give an intelligible answer.

            just the picture is fuzzy.laughing since yesterday I have believed even more in the information field. So close to believe in reincarnation! what
            therefore ... you stood there in a past life .. did not stand ... sources will not give a definite answer - because the picture is blurry! request laughing
          5. Catfish 16 March 2020 16: 44 New
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            Alas, photographic art at that time was still not born. Could give an elegant example from the current masters of photography, but I’m sure that they will send for pornography to the bathhouse at that very moment. And it’s good if only in this:
          6. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 47 New
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            to the bath at the same moment

            No, thanks! stop
            And it’s good if only in such

            Yeah, as a retired Pope in a convent. good as the saying goes, "let the Sea Cat into the fish shop." wink
          7. Catfish 16 March 2020 16: 59 New
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            ... as they say, "let the Sea Cat into the fish shop." wink

            Yeah, if only with the mermaids. smile
          8. Korsar4 16 March 2020 18: 52 New
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            Not everyone succeeds, having covered other people's ears with wax, to hear singing, and not to get rid of the mast.
          9. Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 02 New
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            But the comments ... request
          10. Korsar4 16 March 2020 19: 04 New
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            The torture of wine and women.
          11. Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 12 New
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            Not torture - torture! am
          12. Korsar4 16 March 2020 19: 16 New
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            "Ruining people is not beer.
            Water is ruining people! "(C).
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 18: 55 New
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    Well, the company suffered in paradise! Thoughts ...
    Each cat has three linear meters of heating, a mouthpiece and a mermaid in a jar with sprats!
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 19: 06 New
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    So translate all the mermaids.

    Cats in e are easier to calculate. And there are less and less clean rivers.
    There are almost no muskrats left.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 19: 08 New
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    okay
    “We leave the upper part to the pirate, the lower to the cat soup” !!! laughing
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 19: 14 New
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    I recall from a joke that I wanted to cut the tail to the ears.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 19: 21 New
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    Quote: Korsar4
    I recall from a joke that I wanted to cut the tail to the ears.

    AND? They found the ears of a boa constrictor, or determined to have a swallow of “seekers of their ears”, not everyone has tails !!!!
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 19: 28 New
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    It is difficult to argue with the prosecutor, even if it is a Hare or a Monkey.
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 31 New
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    The top one can also be used, and not necessarily as a soup. laughing
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 30 New
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    So translate all the mermaids.

    So for sure, and exclusively in Russian!
    Cats in e are easier to calculate. And there are less and less clean rivers.
    There are almost no muskrats left.

    Sergei, nevertheless explain to me how cats, even calculated ones, are related to river pollution. Land animals and water cats do not like. A variety of sea Cats is found only in the sea and has no relation to the rivers.
    By the way, the muskrats (admins, sorry) cats also bit it?
    In short, all the cats in my face express you their FE and do not hide resentment.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 16 New
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    Resentment is not constructive.

    But in the vivariums muskrats are hidden from cats.
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 28 New
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    Serge, this is no offense. It’s just indecent to use words in decent houses. Not everyone knows that this is just an animal.
    "Voluntarism!" (WITH). laughing
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 32 New
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    Ellochki cannibals rarely come here.


    "This little animal with a red little book -
    A shield for nature and a sword! "(C).
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 57 New
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    A shield for nature and a sword! "

    "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    - "Not the world, but the sword ..." As you see, I have a good company. However, I prefer pistols to the sword.


    Here are revolvers, but still beautiful, right?
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 22: 00 New
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    Handsomely. Highly. With whom is the duel scheduled?
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 03 New
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    Yes, with anyone, well, her, this duel, it’s just nice to look at them, and shooting is not necessary at all.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 22: 05 New
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    It's right. And it’s true that you can’t take your eyes off this pair.
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 11 New
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    Later, but no less beautiful. “Flowers of evil,” as Lipman said.

  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 22: 23 New
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    Upper - Parabellum Luger
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 27 New
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    He is the most, but more correct to say "Parabellum" Luger. Georg Luger, that was the name of his constructor, although he stole something from someone, and the one he stole from didn’t even invent everything. Weapons borrowed as they could if there was no patent protection.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 01: 03 New
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    Upper - Parabellum Luger

    more interesting lower gun! After the Versailles Peace, Germany was forbidden to produce pistols in caliber, EMNIP, more than 8 mm, so they went the other way. The gun below is 7,65 mm Walter PP. PP stands for "police gun." It was originally veiled that it was a police gun. But later it became widespread, they were armed with “non-first-line infantry” officers — rear officers, Luftwaffe, police, etc. If I’m not mistaken, they borrowed something from it for Makarov’s pistol. Also, their batch was purchased by the NKVD (why the Poles are still rushing with Katyn - some of the bullets were fired precisely from a pistol of this model request ) I saw a modern traumatic version of this weapon. hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 10: 14 New
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    Hi, Nikolay! hi
    Both pistols are interesting, as is the story of their creation. But Walter by all accounts survived Parabellum. You noted everything correctly there, you just made a little mistake in defining the model, in my photo a gilded “toy” is called Walter PPK model - Gun Police Officer Crime. And Walter PP looked like this:
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 10: 21 New
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    in my photo a gilded “toy” is called Walter PPK model - Gun Police Officer Crime.

    Konstantin, yes, I was a little mistaken. You're right. soldier But, in fact, this is a version of Walter PP for hidden wearing. hi I didn’t look at the photo for some reason ... and from memory I answered a bit wrong! recourse
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 10: 32 New
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    ... this is a variation of Walter PP for hidden wear.

    Yes, both of them, both PP and PPK, were never army weapons, there were several developments for a 9-mm cartridge, but you can’t describe everything in a short note. In the end, they settled on the Walter P.38 HP model (Heerespistole, German: military pistol) under the 9x19 Para cartridge.

    Since childhood, I had the pleasure of talking with him, a luxurious pistol. good
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 15: 31 New
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    Since childhood, I had the pleasure of talking with him, a luxurious pistol.

    I won’t ask where. hi
    Of the weapons of the war I shot only from the TT. After meeting PM, the Tokarev handle is uncomfortably felt in the hand. He also shot from a post-war sports modification of a revolver with a curly sports handle (3 rounds once). hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 15: 34 New
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    I won’t ask where.

    There is no secret - a military trophy. Yes and no for a long time. As for the TT, I agree, the clumsy typewriter couldn’t rip off the handle exactly since 1911, since they already started copying it. smile
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 15: 49 New
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    they couldn’t tear off precisely the handle from 1911, if they had already begun to copy.

    clumsy - not clumsy, and before the war, nothing was better. hi Apparently, some flaws - were exhausted by the manufacturability of production.
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 15: 53 New
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    So, according to the results of the pre-war competition for weapons, Voevodin’s pistol was adopted, a small batch was sent for “break-in” in the troops, but the war prevented it from being put on stream. Alas. request
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 16: 04 New
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    Voevodin’s gun was adopted

    outwardly resembles a "luger" ... what
    Interestingly, the subsequent work, as I understand it, was aimed at borrowing the decisions of Walter PP (or PPK). "Baltic", for example.

    Or even PM. hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 16: 11 New
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    It seems that a limited number of “Baltics” were released, and only in St. Petersburg and in service it was not officially accepted. But with Makar - yes, the influence of Walter PP is noticeable with the naked eye. smile But here they screwed up, took and replaced the store reset button with a completely uncomfortable “gag” at the base of the handle. To hell? laughing
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 16: 26 New
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    But here they screwed up, took and replaced the store reset button with a completely uncomfortable “gag” at the base of the handle. To hell?

    I can not say!
    But I generally thought that the reloading algorithm is worse than that of the Nagan revolver, no one came up with. And then he found an article on the warhead about comparing Nagan with his peers.
    https://warhead.su/2020/02/25/tak-li-ploh-nagan-ili-kakoy-revolver-vybrat-popadantsu-v-1895-godu
    and it turns out that in 1895 he was not so bad! hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 16: 38 New
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    Still, Smith in the sense of reloading was much more practical, according to the same principle, a barrel fracture, was the British Weblay.

    In terms of reloading speed and, as a result of rate of fire, they covered all models until revolvers with a drum and an “xnd ejector” type tilting device appeared.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 16: 46 New
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    Still, Smith in the sense of reloading was much more practical, according to the same principle, a barrel fracture, was the British Weblay.

    I want to say for Vebley that his best indicator is that the English army went through two world wars with him. Means, the weapon is worthy, and it was enough for them. The revolver Anfield was also a watershed. hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 17: 00 New
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    I don’t understand why the Yankees clung to their Colt Peacemaker in 1873 so much, although he did not have a self-platoon.

    Although Adams back in 1867 made his self-cocking model under a unitary cartridge.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 17: 11 New
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    I don’t understand why the Yankees clung to their Colt Peacemaker in 1873 so much, although he did not have a self-platoon.

    hmm ... really interesting! But was the Adams self-plausible system reliable?
    Question! as a connoisseur. drinks Competent shooter a la Unwashed Dirty Harry, cocking quickly, could he have time to win the owner of a self-cocking? Or am I breaking nonsense? request
    The Americans at Abrams abandoned the loading mechanism. Replaced by a hefty loader, whose position traditionally hired blacks (about Africans - a joke! laughing ) The question is, I read somewhere that such a charging first few shots can fill fasterthan an automaton. And then it will run out of steam.
    You, Konstantin, as a tanker, what do you say? Or am I completely breaking the crap? recourse
    colleagues, if I say nonsense - do not scold, but explain, please! drinks
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 17: 16 New
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    A competent shooter, quickly cocking the trigger, could do the owner of a self-cocking in time

    It all depends on practice, and Americans still adore shooting with the "mill", so anything is possible.
    I can not say anything about the tank automatic loader, when I served, they were not there. And again, it all depends on the crew’s training and technical condition, in my opinion. smile
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 17: 25 New
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    It all depends on practice, and Americans still adore shooting with the "mill", so anything is possible.

    here! This is the first.
    The second is the cost. How much did self-plating cost in comparison with the “peacemaker”?
    Third - the manufacturability of production. Which one was easier to rivet?
    Fourth is demand. Who was the main buyer? And what were the requirements for weapons? Up to the shape of the handle and ease of hold? drinks
    I can not say anything about the tank automatic loader, when I served, they were not there.

    for the first time, EMNIP, they were put on the T-62. hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 17: 46 New
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    He shot in training with sixty-two, there was no machine gun there, he stuffed everything in the gun. Maybe you mean the T-64?
    Who was the main buyer?

    Army of course. But for them, Colt made a model of 1878 with a self-cocking.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 18: 32 New
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    He shot in training with sixty-two, there was no machine gun there, he stuffed everything in the gun.

    Well, here I am! request It seemed to me that they already began to install them on the T-62 ... repeat
    rmiya, of course. But for them, Colt made a model of 1878 with a self-cocking.

    and the army bought? This model has become the main hi
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 20: 10 New
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    and the army bought? This model has become the main

    In 1902, the United States Army purchased 4500 units of these weapons, mainly for border troops and for soldiers in Alaska. The name of the model speaks for itself - Army & Frontier
    But this model has become the main one, or not, I’m no longer in the know, there were some problems with the spring.
    Yes, and I seem to understand why you decided about the automatic loader on the T-62. In this tank, an automatic ejection of a spent cartridge case was invented through a small hatch in the stern of the tower. But loading the gun was carried out manually. hi
    Sorry, I didn’t answer right away, my mechanic friend came, adjusted the quadric and put in a new battery, tomorrow I’ll go to break in.
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 09: 21 New
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    In this tank, an automatic ejection of a spent cartridge case was invented through a small hatch in the stern of the tower. But loading the gun was carried out manually.

    Yes, apparently, that's why I messed up! request
    Happily run in! drinks
  • Astra wild 18 March 2020 11: 37 New
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    I have the books: Beetle "Pistols, Revolver" and there are no such details, or maybe there are? I just didn’t read
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 12: 38 New
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    there are no such details, or maybe there are?

    What details do you mean? hi
  • Astra wild 18 March 2020 11: 18 New
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    Nikolai, I saw the TT in the cinema and in the picture, but the PM shot and disassembled and I didn’t really like it: it's too big. PSM is another thing - beautiful and small
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 11: 29 New
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    PSM is another thing - beautiful and small

    for a girl, yes. yes I only held him in my hands in my first year.
    PM sits more conveniently in the hand than the TT. The one has a narrower handle and its tilt is almost at right angles.
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 12: 41 New
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    Regarding TT, I completely agree, you can, of course, meet a more uncomfortable pistol, but with difficulty.
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 12: 47 New
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    to meet a more uncomfortable gun, but with difficulty.

    for me personally, it was a sports version of the Nagan, from which three cartridges were shot. He had a curly handle with a ledge, and she "played" against me - I'm left-handed. request ended up getting only once.
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 12: 39 New
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    PSM is another thing - beautiful and small

    And stupid. request
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 12: 46 New
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    And stupid.

    it was not created as a combat weapon, but as, conditionally, a special weapon, or as an extreme weapon of self-defense. hi For all kinds of specialists, with hidden wearing, it was even supposed to equip the crews of civilian aircraft with them - when the first hostage-taking took place in the USSR. hi he’s definitely useless to the military on the battlefield, and the PM policeman will be more weighty.
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 14: 35 New
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    it was not created as a battle

    That's it ... And where is he now? A stillborn child, that’s what we are talking about. hi
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 14: 41 New
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    A stillborn child, that’s what we are talking about.

    why so? it was used by special services for sure, and as a prize. hi a kind of domestic "Walter PPK" as a classmate. request
    Various Russian revolvers of the 90s can definitely be considered "stillborn". yes
    I was lucky to hold this one in my hands - OTs-20. Just "Wild West" - a hefty heavy hat, five rounds in a drum, the cartridges themselves are of three kinds, one of which is with a fraction. fellow Stamped them a bit, but on fire training allowed to hold. drinks
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 15: 41 New
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    Yes, a revolving nightmare! In our country, there has never been a tradition of developing short-barreled weapons, such as revolvers and pistols. One Igor Yakovlevich Stechkin, but it is expensive. But in machines we are ahead of the rest.
    Nikolay, it's still not entirely correct to compare PSM with Walter PPK, which is still being copied and produced all over the world. And who knows about PSM? Some collectors and academics from weapons. And he didn’t get accustomed to our special forces. smile drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 15: 47 New
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    Nikolay, it's still not quite correct

    if in terms of prevalence - yes, incorrectly. hi But, I venture to suggest that in terms of weight and size characteristics, he and PPC occupy approximately one niche. drinks although the PPK cartridge was a larger caliber.
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 15: 56 New
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    I can not judge the merits or demerits of PSM, I, unlike PPC, did not hold it in my hands. But according to the reviews of my acquaintances from the department of ballistics, both the cartridge and the gun themselves were at a level at which there were no people who wanted to have it as a personal weapon. drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 15: 58 New
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    I just held in my hands, no more. And I remember vaguely enough. drinks
    both the cartridge and the gun itself were at a level at which there were no people wishing to have it as a personal weapon.

    I admit that the handle is simply small (at least for a man), and a 5,45 mm bullet penetrates, but does not kill! request
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 16: 16 New
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    In! No balance! Because they do not like him. Well, those, of course, who have something to compare. smile drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 16: 17 New
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    Well, those, of course, who have something to compare.

    Well, yes, I agree! drinks
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 22: 29 New
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    I remember Baudelaire. Is Lipman a translator?
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 22: 39 New
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    Lipman is one of the largest and most serious weapon collectors in the Union. Unfortunately I didn’t have a chance to talk, by the time I arrived at the museum he was gone. "Flowers of Evil" is the title of this article.
    Sergey, alas, I am not so educated as to know and remember Baudelaire. I really don’t know the others either. Litter. request
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 23: 09 New
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    So we all will know something. And we even remember something. And something crashes into memory.
  • Phil77 18 March 2020 20: 44 New
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    Example.
    * They inspire fear among the holy men and the crowd.
    Dreaming, they look serious
    Those sphinxes of stone that are in the sand
    unknown deserts dream so beautifully.
    Their loins of sparks are full, and in quivering pupils
    grains of gold mysteriously shine. * It's about our beloved creatures, about cats! He, this is Baudelaire. hi
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 21: 06 New
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    "I'm locked up alone ..
    Coronavirus ... Quarantine!
    The hostess does not let Muska.
    It is impossible! What if she ... sneezes?
    Bring it home!

    For what? And why in the spring?
    And how did you clink glasses for the Rat?
    And what are you waiting for? Crisis ... Virus ..

    I will show you how to live.
    All horoscopes - reset!
    From the beginning ... From scratch ..
    Forever make the Year of the Cat !! "
    Julius Bessonov.
  • Phil77 18 March 2020 21: 09 New
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    Bravo !!! What’s the Year of the Cat !? The Century of the Cat! This is the approach fellow
  • Phil77 18 March 2020 21: 21 New
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    * What a puddle on the way!
    Do not move, do not pass
    And so that the paws do not slap ...
    I paw with this paw Murka
    Rather gently caress
    how to tread on puddles?
    Galoshes must be issued!
    Or free shoe covers
    Is this how a cat can get to a cute cat? * Bessonov.
  • Phil77 18 March 2020 21: 04 New
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    * As a mirror of his reserved anguish, Free man, you will love the sea!
    With its vastness to hop in the native space
    Whose abysses, like your spirit unbridled, bitter! *. This of course is just an excerpt from * Man and the Sea *.
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 21: 22 New
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    "Fatigue rocked his legs - snatch a minute of sleep!
    We heard: a wave pulled rusty rivets;
    How the arrow jumped a compass - as if a jaguar catches its tail!
    But through the winter sea we led our Bolivar. "
    Kipling.
  • Phil77 18 March 2020 21: 27 New
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    * day-night-day-night-we walk through Africa.
    day-night-day-night-all over the same Africa
    dust-dust-dust-dust-from walking boots * .He is a classic white man, then still not tolerant. stop
  • Catfish 18 March 2020 22: 02 New
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    "And only the dust under the boots,
    God is with us and a banner is with us
    And a heavy carbine at the ready ... "
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 20: 46 New
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    For this, more and more similar organisms of other subspecies.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 29 New
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    They are not sown and reaped, but they themselves are born?
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 21 New
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    ... a mermaid in a jar of sprats!

    Vlad, you can’t mix appetizer and pleasure. Sprat itself, and a mermaid separately. And then the snack can no longer swim under its own power, and the mermaids - wow! good
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 20: 59 New
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    I don’t give a damn about the mermaid if there’s a sprat tail in the belly, there’s one and a half meter rent of a heating main and a shout to boot, and on the street is March! Pleasures will find you !!! Well, or fall down from the balcony !!!
    The main thing is to bark at the shout and dodge the felt boots, tarpaulin boots and rubber slates !!!
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 20 New
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    The main thing is to bark at the shout and dodge the felt boots, tarpaulin boots and rubber slates !!!


    We answer on points:
    1/. Cats from all over the district come running to our maw and without a mouthpiece, and then freedom of choice.
    2 /. Dodging boots and other things are not used to, it’s better if the shoe owners themselves are concerned about the safety of their skin.
    3 /. We have nothing to say about the heating main, because we never had to rake.
    5/. All my life I lived on the sixth floor with a balcony, but I could not drop anything from it. And to fall down ... laughing
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 21: 51 New
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    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    and on the street March!

    March for the cat, in my understanding, is somehow true.

    Am I mistaken? smile
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 20: 43 New
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    "Ate Latvian sprats - helped SS veterans" (from the "Analytics" section) laughing
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 21: 03 New
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    “I ate Kaliningrad sprats - undermined the economy of the three Baltic states !!! (From the "History" section).
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 21: 05 New
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    Rather, from the "Opinions" section
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 21: 38 New
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    He ate an SS veteran - earned a stomach ulcer, but received a bonus for cleaning the environment. soldier
  • Astra wild 17 March 2020 17: 34 New
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    Konstantin, this is cannibalism
  • Catfish 17 March 2020 17: 49 New
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    Scanning a cannibal is not an act of cannibalism, but rather a charitable affair. good
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 45 New
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    By Great Lent, addiction to bourgeois dishes is healed.
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 21: 49 New
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    Yeah, and the coronovirus in the Temple of God is not virulent, illuminated by the assurances of the press department of His humble servants.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 57 New
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    The study is hard to do.
    Jokes in the spirit of the elder Karamazov.

    But now they’re not writing off this viral beast. Moreover, the degree of madness is increasing.
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 22: 10 New
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    Exactly!
    "In the courtyard of the Middle Ages, obscurantism and jazz." The spiral (as we would like!) Of the evolution of the human mind, in practice, as usual, turned out to be a closed curve.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 22: 27 New
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    Just multiplied by information technology, which makes all this especially destructive.
  • VLR
    VLR 16 March 2020 23: 08 New
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    Yes, it seems that in Russia (a country with a population of more than 146 million people) there are not 93 patients with a new form of acute respiratory infections, but tens of thousands who died from plague or smallpox. You inadvertently watch TV or flip through a news feed - and, going out into the street, you begin to look around in search of decaying corpses lying along the road. Or - crowds of zombies, dejectedly wandering to eat the tasteless brains of people buying up pasta and toilet paper.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 23: 13 New
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    One would only understand where the line is between the acute respiratory disease and the "Spanish".
  • VLR
    VLR 16 March 2020 23: 27 New
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    No, the Spaniard was a really terrible disease, mortality was prohibitive, regardless of age and social status. This is probably the last real and dangerous pandemic in the history of mankind. And coronavirus is a “paper tiger”, dangerous only for the elderly with a bunch of serious illnesses. Children are the most vulnerable category of the population for all other infectious diseases (and, from a biological point of view, the most valuable), who are wallowing with temperature for any reason, are practically invulnerable to coronavirus. This, in my opinion, speaks of the weakness of this pathogen, which, like a wolf in the forest, can only catch and overpower sick and old individuals.
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 23: 40 New
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    I imagine about the same. But the eldest daughter is a doctor. Both she and her social circle take this virus more seriously. Although, maybe this is a kind of professional deformation.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 10: 09 New
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    Both she and her social circle take this virus more seriously.

    I liked this, in the spite of the day:

    taking into account the injected emotions, I agree with Valery:
    You inadvertently watch TV or flip through a news feed - and, going out into the street, you begin to look around in search of decaying corpses lying along the road. Or - crowds of zombies, dejectedly wandering to eat the tasteless brains of people buying up pasta and toilet paper.
    just what - the feeling that the zombie apocalypse is about to begin. laughing drinks
  • Phil77 17 March 2020 18: 46 New
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    I agree, Nikolai! The first talk about empty shelves with cereals, salt, etc., went down the list in * five * and * intersection *. The process went ???
  • Pane Kohanku 18 March 2020 09: 20 New
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    The process has started ???

    God knows him, Sergey! I haven’t seen it myself. Someone said that a lot was bought up in the center. I live on the outskirts, yesterday on my way home I drove into the “tape” not far from work, I didn’t see any empty shelves or hype! hi
    As they wrote me a joke yesterday: "The first victim of the coronovirus appeared in Russia. It was a man crushed by a shelf with buckwheat." laughing and so much excitement that at least get ready for the zombie apocalypse!
  • Phil77 19 March 2020 12: 43 New
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    Greetings Nikolay! And I had to see it yesterday. The cat was running out of food, after work first went to the * five *, bought food, and then came curiosity! I walked around the store and saw ... Yes, I saw with my own eyes the empty shelves in the department of pasta and other cereals! At the checkout counter I asked-asked the cashier in a tired voice, but kindly replied that they had seized from the very morning! And this has been for three days since some female, but not from a dog breed fake about the closure of Moscow! It's the same with regards to and * intersection *, well, I'm curious from Nature! And so there is no panic, which pleases!
  • Pane Kohanku 19 March 2020 14: 22 New
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    And so no panic is observed, which pleases!

    I yesterday, while walking on the "ocean", neighing in a voice. drinks 5-10 percent surely had pasta and pipipax carts! laughing I didn’t notice empty shelves, although mine asked for rice to be bought - they really did pick it up. yes but our corpses will have the cleanest asses! wassat Sergei! Will live! drinks
    "alarmist set":
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 10: 10 New
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    One would only understand where the line is between the acute respiratory disease and the "Spanish".

  • Phil77 17 March 2020 06: 47 New
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    Good morning everyone! And I honestly don’t quite understand what it is? Dumb budget development on this topic? Or stupidity of leadership at all levels? You don’t have to go far for an example! My factory. Before the entrance, weighed out dispensers with antibacterial crap. BEFORE! according to their logic, I have to squeeze this gel onto my fingers, then go into my pocket for a pass, mark it and go to work. But ... it’s not even that my clothes and there will be stains on it. what next do I need to go again along STREET !!!! Here is where the co-encouragement is for those who make such decisions? ????? In my opinion, this is a common psychosis.
  • Astra wild 17 March 2020 17: 31 New
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    Today I ran into the store: toilet paper in place, pasta too
  • vladcub 16 March 2020 19: 06 New
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    Konstantin, if you went to that bathhouse, take me. And then one will be with three at once
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 19: 11 New
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    Quote: vladcub
    Konstantin, if you went to that bathhouse, take me. And then one will be with three at once



    That would arrange a branch of our faithful !!!
    I think the tails of many of us pinched! lol
  • vladcub 16 March 2020 19: 16 New
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    That's right. Then proving that you are not a camel
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 48 New
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    It’s easier for me, my wife has long known that I am a Cat. drinks
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 37 New
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    Vlad, my Maria is always happy to read articles on history, and our chatter too. Several times he suggested that she comment on Hochma for the sake of refusing. So, someone like that. smile
  • Korsar4 16 March 2020 21: 47 New
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    And my eyes fell on the picture of Konstantinov Cat.

    The correct pictures are best selected for display.
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 33 New
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    Glory, I don’t go to such events alone, but I will always be glad to see you in our company. smile drinks
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 52 New
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    And then one will be with three at once

    so he can handle it. wink And for you, as much will invite wink according to the principle "we are two in two - and in one dish" good drinks
  • Undecim 16 March 2020 19: 27 New
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    And why didn’t they put the previous illustration from the same book?
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 15 New
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    Konstantin, is this a survey of Jana d, Ark? I heard somewhere that on the orders of the English, the midwives checked: is she a virgin? And the English commander, forgot the name of the Lord, took refuge in a dark corridor and watched the survey
  • Bar1 16 March 2020 21: 47 New
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    the story slips into frank vulgarity, but modernization only looks for violation of the regime.
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 18: 46 New
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    I'm sure. Sanctum Oficium is too serious an office to not trust her in such a trifle.
  • Phil77 16 March 2020 19: 44 New
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    And I read about another version, according to which the curse (if it certainly was?) Disappeared only after the execution of Louis at number sixteen.
  • Astra wild 17 March 2020 17: 24 New
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    Of course "slept": after him there were 2 Bourbons and all
  • Phil77 16 March 2020 17: 54 New
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    Add Clement at number five.
  • Falx 16 March 2020 22: 25 New
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    and at the same time dad Clement, to the heap, so to speak
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 16: 03 New
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    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    nobody cursed them for an hour?

    Oh, I think more than once ... smile
    Maybe not as loud as Jacques de Molay ... Although, he cursed all the descendants of Philip the Beautiful, and they all are his descendants, in fact Edward III his English grandson through Isabella.
    If you look at the offspring of Edward III in general, the picture is unlikely to be more joyful than with the house of York, in any case, with male offspring.
    The Black Prince, the eldest son of Edward, died before his father. Richard II - Edward's grandson - is overthrown and killed by a cousin, Herich IV.
    Offspring of John Gaunt. Henry IV, his son - died of leprosy. Henry V - grandson - from dysentery. Henry VI - great-grandson - killed in the Tower.
    The offspring of Lionel Antwerp (he died of illness at the age of thirty) is one daughter. Her grandchildren - Count Mortimers - both died, one in battle, the other during the siege of his castle.
    The offspring of Edmund Langley, we disassembled.
    The offspring of Thomas Woodstock: Thomas himself was killed in prison, his son died of the plague, leaving no offspring.
    By the way, I myself just now realized how, however, the picture is funny ... laughing Somehow I had not thought about this before. Of all these nobles, only the children of Edward proper died of his old age, and even then only two out of five - John Gaunt and Edmund Langley.
    Some kind of tin ...
    1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 11 New
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      Although, he cursed the entire offspring of Philip the Beautiful, and they all are his descendants, in fact Edward III his English grandson through Isabella.

      in fact, exactly! Straight to Shakespeare: "Plague on yours BOTH at home!" fellow on both sides of the English Channel, so to speak. Edward II with a poker in the seat is on the list, or accidentally fell under a curse? lol
      Probably, all the same, Jacques de Molay was burned justifiably, if he could engage in such witches .. laughing
      Some kind of tin ...

      time is .... request
      It is interesting, but can we draw an analogy among the boyar princes? what
      1. Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 16: 37 New
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        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        But can we draw an analogy among the boyar princes?

        To be so tough, this, perhaps, was not.
        A contemporary of Edward III was Dmitry Donskoy, at the time of his death he had five children and a cousin with offspring.
        In the older branch - from Vasily, nobody seemed to die by violent death. His grandson, Vasily the Dark, was blinded, but not killed.
        Vasily Kosoy and Dmitry Shemyaka went from the second son of Yuri - one died in prison, the second was poisoned.
        From the third - Andrei - two sons, both died in old age, however, Ivan - in exile (fled to Lithuania).
        The fourth, Peter, died of his old age, faithfully serving his elder brother.
        Fifth - Constantine - the same thing.
        So only two of the whole family - the descendants of Yuri Dmitrievich, actually died as a result of the political struggle.
        Ivan III, the great-grandson of Donskoy, seemed to rage on something about his brothers, but I don't remember much. In my opinion, with him one of his brothers was sent to prison and died quickly there. The rest of the relatives seemed to be dying of their own death or from illness.
      2. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 16: 44 New
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        The rest of the relatives seemed to be dying of their own death or from illness.

        Michael, I bow for a detailed answer! Yes, for some reason I remembered Shemyaku with a blinding story. hi
      3. VLR
        VLR 16 March 2020 17: 49 New
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        Well, another "Game of Thrones" after the death of Vladimir Svyatoslavich. And the war of the children and grandchildren of Yaroslav, the most famous of which is Oleg (Gorislavich). His brother Gleb was killed on the way to Smolensk. Another brother - Roman Red - was killed by bribed uncles.
        Polovtsy. Uncle Oleg Izyaslav (killed by unknown spearmen) and Boris Vyacheslavich died in the battle of Nezhatina Niva. The middle son of Oleg was killed by the rebelled Kievans. Two great-grandchildren Oleg - the sons of Igor (from the "Word") hanged in Galich. And before that - the mysterious death of Svyatoslav, which, it is possible, the Polovtsy were brought not by the Byzantines, but by the people of Kiev: he killed his Christian warriors, having been blunted in defeat, and promised to deal with the Kiev Christians. Igor and Avenging for him, as the heroine of the Scandinavian saga, Olga - there are similar stories.
      4. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 18: 03 New
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        Well, another "Game of Thrones" after the death of Vladimir Svyatoslavich.

        Valery, I bow to you! hi drinks
        He began to read about the history of fortification of Novgorod and Pskov (about the Kremlin), amused Vseslav Polotsky. In 1065, goes to Pskov. The Kremlin did not take it, in connection with this the defensive wall - "Persian" is mentioned for the first time. Trampled, went back. sad The next year, he goes to Polotsk to Novgorod (straight hands itch - go yes and dust at least someone!). Novgorod - takes it! fellow Further - he removes the bells and chandelier from Hagia Sophia, and is taken to his place in Polotsk! Hooligan! Straight thieving cocky prince sorcerer! laughing he himself is in Polotsk is a monument. As someone wrote on the forum: "monument to the prince and tile". laughing Well, it didn’t work to remove it differently from the car! request drinks
      5. vladcub 17 March 2020 13: 04 New
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        Nikolay, why was he erected and when was the monument. But what did the chandelier whistle?
      6. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 13: 07 New
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        Nikolay, why was he erected and when was the monument. But what did the chandelier whistle?

        and for that too! wink the specific prince, who is expanding his principality - simply put, squeezed the earth and other buns and others, and everything into the house, everything into the house! fellow like, went a lot of hikes. He was also a brawler and a bully! hi
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 18: 51 New
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    Quote: VlR
    Well, another "Game of Thrones" after the death of Vladimir Svyatoslavich.

    I took a period more suitable for comparison with the "Wars of the Roses". smile
    If we take earlier periods, then we can recall my article about pre-Mongol Rurikovich, and how they settled scores with each other, but it’s not too bloody there either ... request
    That killings and executions are relatively few. They died on the battlefields, but this is completely different, was regarded not as a murder, but as a "divine judgment."
    And all the same, even if we count all the dead princes, there will not be as many corpses as the last Plantagenets per capita. They have the last three generations were almost completely worn out.
    Our princes had a rule: to punish a prince only by weaning volosts. The excesses were strictly punished by the princes themselves.
    The children of Yaroslav did not fight among themselves, Izyaslav died in the battle with his nephews.
    Roman Krasny was killed by the Polovtsy, but there is no evidence of any Russian princes being involved in this - only speculation.
    Angry Kiev was killed by Igor Olgovich, although Vladimir Mstislavich, who was then in Kiev, tried to protect him in every possible way.
    The princes hanged in Galich are also victims of "popular anger", or rather, the boyar's revenge for terror. Daniil, who was present in Galich, the future Galitsky, was later never once criticized by anyone. Vsevolod Chermny, it seems, tried to “present” this case to the Smolensk prince’s house, but to no avail, like Andrei Bogolyubsky before that, he tried to bring the death of his brother to the same Rostislavichs in Kiev, allegedly he was poisoned, even called the guilty.
    It is possible to credit our princes with their denunciations to the Horde against each other, especially the Ryazan and Moscow ones ... But there is no longer a purely "family" showdown, nevertheless, decisions on the execution of a prince were made by the khans. And even in this case, the "density" of deaths is much lower than that of the British.
  • vladcub 16 March 2020 19: 32 New
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    Michael, let's be fair: our Ruriks or Romanovs are some kind of boring guys, and the Plantinets were brighter. In our country, only Ivan Vasilievich Grozny was a "merry fellow": he celebrated for every panechid.
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 14: 47 New
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    In our country, only Ivan Vasilievich Grozny was a "merry fellow": he celebrated for every panechid.

    Sergei Bubalik once cited statistics on those executed in England in the 16th century. Our John Vasilievich killed much less. hi
  • Phil77 17 March 2020 16: 23 New
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    Nikolay! Ivan Vasilievich is just a victim of * black PR * of Western countries, although to call our Ruriks and Romanovs * boring guys *? No, I would not dare. bully
  • Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 16: 36 New
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    No, I would not dare.

    for me, so Paul was the most "not keen". At least the nobility was shaking from the emperor’s undertakings. But he didn’t execute anyone! stop
  • Phil77 17 March 2020 16: 52 New
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    And Elizaveta Petrovna, and Catherine the Great, and Peter the Great?
  • Astra wild 17 March 2020 17: 15 New
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    Nikolay, if for the whole 16 then Ivan the Terrible will be absent and in addition he still spent time on prayer.
    By the way, why does Vladkub not mention Peter 1? He didn’t mess around either.
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 07 New
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    Michael, you know the story very well. So I think: you are a historian, but you’re hiding or under-reporting how many of them study in one specialty, but work in another
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 21: 33 New
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    I am not a historian, although I am pleased that you suspect me of this. smile
    And I know history not at all as well as real historians who have fundamental training and are familiar with auxiliary historical disciplines. Simply, “The Wars of the Roses” and “The Great Feudal War” are the topics that I was purely interested in, therefore, in general, I am fluent in them. And pre-Mongol Russia is generally my favorite period in history. smile There are several more topics that I know better than others, for example, the defense of Leningrad in 1941-1944, and indeed the history of a small homeland (I'm from Luga, there is such a town in the south of the Leningrad region). Everything else - at the usual level, maybe a little higher than the "average in the hospital", in any case, among the visitors of VO.
    In this case, there will always be a person (and many can even name the person. laughing ), and not one who knows more about this topic than me, simply due to the long language, my comments are striking - they almost always have a “multi-bucket”. smile
    And I work, just in my specialty. hi
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 56 New
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    My husband began his service in the Leningrad Region and talked about Luga: he was visiting with a friend. Only I suspect that the "comrade 'had a dress. He even had a photo: some cafe near the road and the sign says: Leningrad is some kilometers
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 58 New
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    "almost always" multi-book "and almost always interesting comments
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 21: 59 New
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    Thank you for your kind words. hi
  • 3x3zsave 16 March 2020 19: 51 New
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    Do not confuse the small disassembly of the Italian mafia clans described by an Estland poet who labored in taverns (Six Beer - six mugs of beer, “chasing” speaks for itself!) With an episode from the great (I’m not afraid of this word!) Epic of the Chukchi people! The translation of the original is: "Plague on both of your plague!"
  • vladcub 16 March 2020 18: 52 New
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    Yes, the "" fun "fate of the family was.
    It is interesting to know: what did each of them think at the last moment? Did any of them think about the fate of fate? In general, the question of whether Rock or Fatum is very controversial
  • Phil77 16 March 2020 10: 32 New
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    Good morning to the distinguished assembly! The leadership is now dead, Monday, I read the article of the esteemed Valery. Thank you, very interesting! Hello Vlad! A dilemma? Probably. But .... One took an unexpected soldier's death, the other died of an overabundance of pleasure. I will say so lucky for both. The element of surprise is still more preferable than expectation of the inevitable.
  • tlauicol 16 March 2020 05: 58 New
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    did the eunuch from Smyrna have children?
    1. VLR
      VLR 16 March 2020 06: 13 New
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      Poetic liberties: the author of the poem "sees" his hero like that, what to take from him? But these lines convey the mood.
    2. Olgovich 16 March 2020 07: 57 New
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      Quote: Tlauicol
      did the eunuch from Smyrna have children?

      According to some studies, 8-10% of children born in wedlock are raised by fathers, who, in fact, are not ...
  • Phil77 16 March 2020 06: 52 New
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    Good morning everyone! That's how insulting !!! The article is interesting, and ... you need to work! So until the evening! In principle, options are possible ...
  • Catfish 16 March 2020 10: 43 New
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    Good morning friends! hi
    Thank you very much Valery. Here I read the article and involuntarily the question arises of where everything goes. Empires are crumbling, the greatness of states is going into oblivion, and only one people is unchanged on this planet.
    Among the inhabitants of Algeria, there were 2 thousand Jews who had heard about what happened to their tribesmen in Tunisia. For a long time they celebrated this Spanish failure with a three-day fasting and subsequent holiday.

    Nothing personal and no anti-Semitism.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 March 2020 19: 01 New
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      In due time communicated with Croats. Surprised from the attitude towards the Italians - well, they really made fun of their attempts to walk and consider themselves descendants of Rome!
      1. Catfish 16 March 2020 19: 11 New
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        Hello, hello! About five minutes I thought what the Croats were doing here, then I remembered the Croatan legion and understood. The Italians are god with them, but as for the Jews, of course ...
  • Operator 16 March 2020 11: 04 New
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    Sinan Pasha was a Jew only in the eyes of Europeans - for Jews, the definition of a Jew, especially at the time described in the article, refers only to people professing Judaism.

    In any case, from the time of the Arab conquests, Muslims and Jews were clearly enemies of Christians, which caused the latter to create a special organization - the Inquisition, which fought against crypto Jews as part of Christian converts who broke the vow made at baptism (and not with some abstract ones) heretics ").
  • Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 11: 08 New
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    After reading Valery’s articles, I got the impression that the “pirates” described in them were not at all “pirates” themselves, but rather, “civil servants”. A classic pirate is nevertheless, in my understanding, a representative of the criminal world, acting exclusively in his own interests and at his own risk and peril, opposing himself to the law in principle, not enjoying the support of anyone in power and robbing everyone in a row. And here some kind of politics is constantly implicated - some can be robbed, others are needed, and others cannot. You still say that they paid taxes to the Sultan and wrote monthly reports to Istanbul, I won’t be surprised ...
    Pirates are freemen, anarchy, the international and the brotherhood according to the principles of "man to man is a wolf", "he who hits first" is right, and "the dead do not bite." laughing
    1. VLR
      VLR 16 March 2020 12: 14 New
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      Well, after all, in the Caribbean - the same thing: for example, gentlemen from Port Royal of the Spaniards could rob and often even needed. But the British merchant, even a very "appetizing", to board - it is already "chaos." "Real" pirates were in North Africa and the Caribbean, but were considered "scumbags" and did not live long. It was easier to acquire a privateer letter from the governor of Tortuga or privatiry in Port Royal, or go under the auspices of the pasha of Algeria (Tunisia, Tripoli) - and be a completely respected (in certain circles) person. The vice-governor of Jamaica eventually become or Ottoman reis.
      1. Phil77 16 March 2020 12: 54 New
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        So? It’s * scumbags * that are the true gentlemen of fortune! And they are worthy of the high rank of a pirate! And the rest are aptly noticed by Mikhail civil servants. hi
        1. VLR
          VLR 16 March 2020 13: 02 New
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          Well, there the line is always very thin.
          Yesterday there was a letter of marque, but today its term has expired - and now what, let this Spaniard be released?
          This year, the Sultan did not order the French to touch, but they themselves were to blame - they were swimming away, insolently: in this case, by the way, the son of Barbarossa was "burnt out" and "was removed from his post" - I’ll tell you in the next article.
          Henry Morgan always has a private letter with him. And personally acquainted with him, Exvemelin knows about this, but in his book he calls him a pirate only (which Morgan was very offended by and even filed a lawsuit).
          1. Phil77 16 March 2020 13: 19 New
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            Yes, in those days, I think that the captain would also say that the Royal / Sultan Fleet could not get past the booty.
          2. Phil77 16 March 2020 13: 34 New
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            Quote: VlR
            Well, there the line is always very thin.

            * all that the giver of this has done,
            made by my order
            and for the good of the state.
            August 5, 1628 RICHELIER. *
            1. Astra wild 16 March 2020 20: 50 New
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              The Three Musketeers gave Richelieu this indulgence to Lady de Winter, and through Athos she got to q, Artagnan.
              By the way, the cardinal was not really what Dumas showed him.
              It so happened that I watched the movie ahead, still old, 2 serial adaptation, and then I read the book. After the book, I did not sleep at night: I was worried. Already now I have a slightly different assessment: milady, Athos, Partos, Aramis and q, Artagnan
              1. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 26 New
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                Oh! Well so be it. what
              2. VLR
                VLR 16 March 2020 22: 03 New
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                Have you read my article "Four Musketeers, or why is it dangerous to re-read Dumas novels" here? (or - not here: she "blew up the Internet" and spread across dozens of sites).
                1. Falx 16 March 2020 22: 45 New
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                  Yes, yes, I remember. I reread the "Musketeers" exactly the same impression. Loosers, crooks and traitors ...
              3. Phil77 17 March 2020 08: 13 New
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                According to some reports, most of the material was collected by Auguste Macke, co-author of Dumas. But ... we know Dumas as the father * of the Three Musketeers *, and not only them!
      2. Catfish 16 March 2020 13: 45 New
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        Yes, Valery, he is so, but the Caribbean is not a Mediterranean bath. And then it was all over the place: looted, ruined, cut ... heroic Islamic guys. Is it any wonder that further, throughout the life of many generations, they did not do anything else. smile
      3. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 13: 54 New
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        But the British merchant, even a very "appetizing", to board - it is already "chaos."

        Captain Kidd, in order to earn a hemp tie, all he had to do was rob a single Armenian (!) ship! lol Taki complained about him! request the most famous and mysterious pirate loser ... what Well, after Sharpe - he was generally a fabulous man, he had to play in the theater! drinks
        1. Astra wild 16 March 2020 20: 32 New
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          Nikolai, what kind of Sharpe are you talking about? It is unlikely that this is from the series: 'The Adventures of the Royal Sharpshooter "
          1. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 34 New
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            Faith! We are talking about Bartolomeo Sharp, the first Englishman to circumnavigate Cape Horn / Southern Hemisphere /. Well, a little pirate.
            1. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 08 New
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              ! It's about Bartolomeo Sharp

              about him, Sergey! drinks
          2. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 21 New
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            Nikolai, what kind of Sharpe are you talking about?

            Faith, as Sergei rightly pointed out, is Bartholomew Sharp, a pirate of the late 17th century. love A very unusual pirate captain, circling Cape Horn, and also a leading diary. hi
            According to Igor Mozheiko, Sharpe was lucky to capture the Spanish galleon, somewhere in the Pacific Ocean, near Central America. In the hold were piles of incomprehensible white metal. wink There was a passenger on the ship - a sultry beautiful Spanish woman. winked Sharpe got carried away by her ... winked And the pirates counted metal as tin. what Spaniard during the "romance" with a pirate (I don’t know if there was an intimate relationship between them bully ) persuaded Sharpe to let go of the ship. As Mozheiko writes his catchphrase: "Both sides parted, extremely pleased with each other." drinks The pirates nevertheless left one ingot of metal for themselves! Sharpe, as they said, led the ship around Cape Horn to the Atlantic, moored in Tortuga .. and then it turned out that the metal adopted for tin is silver .... belay ..... Sharp missed because of his eccentricity and love of love the largest load of silverever falling into the hands of pirates! belay belay in general, soon the whole Caribbean made fun of him! request But he finished, it seemed, well, and even in his bed. laughing
            1. Astra wild 17 March 2020 16: 19 New
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              I would like to know what he thought of himself, and how he spoke of that Spanish woman!
              1. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 16: 33 New
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                I would like to know what he thought of himself, and how he spoke of that Spanish woman!

                I think his self-esteem did not suffer - Mozheiko describes him as a pretentious bouncer. A kind of fanfaron Murat, only on the ship. hi
                here is a link to a chapter about his adventures - "Guests from the Caribbean." Next, scroll through a couple of pages. Easy and funny - read on health! hi
                https://royallib.com/read/mogeyko_igor/pirati_korsari_reyderi.html#430080.
      4. Trilobite Master 16 March 2020 14: 00 New
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        Quote: VlR
        go under the auspices of the pasha of Algeria

        In Soviet times, these "pirates" were called by orthodox thieves with (U) kami. Although these "ss (u) people" called themselves European-style "Polish thieves." smile However, there, on this subject, I mean terminology, there are many different, often conflicting opinions.
        Probably in the XVI - XVIII centuries. the ideology of the criminal world, as such, did not exist or was just beginning to take shape. Therefore, cooperation with the government in itself was possible without losing credibility among colleagues in a dangerous business. But from the point of view of the modern prisoner, especially the classical prisoner of the Stalin-Khrushchev era, this is a typical bastard, and the bastard is cruel.
        You give scumbags, you give a pirate republic, down with the Compromisers and the opportunists!
        laughing
        Yes, Valery, thanks for the article. hi
        1. Pane Kohanku 16 March 2020 14: 17 New
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          You give scumbags, you give a pirate republic, down with the Compromisers and the opportunists!

          if you add to this “give advice without communists”, you get the slogan of the Kronstadt rebellion. Why not anarchist pirates? wink
    2. Oquzyurd 16 March 2020 18: 50 New
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      All these admirals were civil servants and obeyed orders sent directly from Istanbul .. Why are they forcibly shown in quotation marks as pirates? What is the reason for this?
  • Operator 16 March 2020 13: 45 New
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    Quote: Sea Cat
    The empire is crumbling, the greatness of the states goes into oblivion and only ...

    Chinese, Indians, Egyptians, Persians, Greeks and Jews remain unchanged - why would it? laughing

    Or do you mean the specific inanimity and persistent inability to maintain one of these peoples' statehood? Religious and cultural feature, not?
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 20: 25 New
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    Valery, I swallowed Barbaros as a novel.
    And after today I have questions: 1) Sinan Pasha was a Jew and commanded the Muslim people, but he did not change faith?
    2) Jews and Muslims are now in a very strained relationship, as before. Really among their clergy there were no radicals to excite fanatics: Jews byak. Beat them.
    1. VLR
      VLR 16 March 2020 21: 58 New
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      Faith was replaced, of course, and took the name: Sinan ad-Din Yusuf. I wrote about this at the beginning of the article. Turks were then much more tolerant than Europeans: non-Muslims only paid one "extra" tax and lived in peace. And if a Jew or a Serb, or a Bulgarian converted to Islam - in general, all questions were removed, he became a full-fledged citizen and no one thought to reproach him with his non-Ottoman origin.
      In the Russian Empire, by the way, also any Jew could get out of the Pale of Baptism by being baptized.
    2. VLR
      VLR 16 March 2020 22: 07 New
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      Yes, by the way, there were a lot of European renegades among corsairs. There were captains of pirate ships, there were Ottoman admirals in the next article. And there was one and only European corsair in the Maghreb who did not change his faith and remained a Protestant! Very interesting and colorful character. I’ll tell you more about him.
      1. Phil77 17 March 2020 18: 57 New
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        Good evening, Valery! You know, it was curious to me that it was about Dumas. And how do you, personally, feel about the book * D'Artagnan the Guardsman of the Cardinal *, the author of course is little respectable to the historian, but his fiction is entertaining!
  • Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 26 New
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    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    Although, in the absence of derivatives, you can replace the count with scrap, and thongs with “family shorts with linen elastic” !!!

    this is to Edward II. I don’t know if the thongs had managed to remove his Maltravers comrades, but they inserted a red-hot poker. what

    So is it true, not a historical myth?
    1. Phil77 16 March 2020 21: 37 New
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      Regarding the death of Edward number two, there is no exact, historically confirmed data. There could have been a banal strangulation. But Maurice Druon chose such a death of the king.
      1. Astra wild 16 March 2020 21: 40 New
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        Druona, once read- a powerful thing
    2. Pane Kohanku 17 March 2020 00: 37 New
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      So is it true, not a historical myth?

      Well .... I didn’t hold a candle .. but Druon also wrote from scratch, I think! That is ... rumors certainly could go! hi
      but interesting .. history, Vera, excuse me, how drawbar. What you write will be believed. what Suddenly, in fact, was Edward an exemplary family man, an alpha male, and a successful economist and politician? And all the rest Isabella with unsatisfied ambitions and with her lover Mortimer lied? Interesting, right? what Why not? wink somehow he coped with the reign, and even the rebellion of the barons crushed ... and the rest - bribes and conspiracies .. around the enemy .. betrayed for selfish interests .. and he and the Dispensers were really a great collector of the English Land .. . what Why not? If you submit such an article, it will collect hundreds comments! Trust me! yes love
      The story is written by killers, unfortunately. request We don’t know much about Peter III, and Paul the First was considered degenerate until the 2000s. (but we raise the king-rag to the rank of national treasure! fool) History is like a drawbar. Although Michael will argue with me - and rightly argue! drinks There are simply two “stories”: 1. accurate science, what really was. 2. the way events presented the people, which the vast majority of the population believes in. request
      Interesting, right? love why not philosophize, Vera?
      1. Phil77 17 March 2020 06: 31 New
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        Good morning, Nikolai! But some sources insist on strangulation, some on this exotic form of murder, and there are also others who insist on the version that there was no murder! Well, since Druon was a writer and a good writer, he chose the one that * is prettier *. That's something like that.
  • Falx 16 March 2020 22: 08 New
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    Turgut’s track record is very impressive! whom he just did not rob ...
    1. Oquzyurd 17 March 2020 13: 18 New
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      The battle for the expansion of the empire, victory, sometimes defeat. If the author describes them as robbery, then all the raids on behalf of the state is a robbery, for everyone.
  • Uncle Izya 17 March 2020 09: 11 New
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    From a rascal sold his faith and the people, Jews in liveries