Military Review

Hypersonic Zircon Launched from Severodvinsk Submarine

96
Hypersonic Zircon Launched from Severodvinsk Submarine

The launch of the Zircon hypersonic missile from the side of the submarine will be carried out after several launches from the side of the surface ship. As the carrier will be used the head submarine of project 885 (code "Ash") "Severodvinsk". This was reported by TASS with reference to a source in the military-industrial complex.


According to the source, as part of the tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile, three to four launches from the Admiral Gorshkov frigate will be made, after which the tests will continue in the submarine. Launches are planned from underwater from the side of the nuclear powered submarine Severodvinsk. At the same time, the test dates are not called.

As part of ongoing state trials of the Zircon shipboard missile system, firing a hypersonic missile from an underwater position from the Severodvinsk submarine is planned

- the agency leads the words of the source.

Earlier it was reported that it was originally planned to launch the Zircon from the head submarine of the improved project 885M (code Yasen-M) Kazan, but the plans were revised due to the protracted trials of the submarine.

Recall that the first tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile from the surface ship became known at the end of February this year, when news agencies reported on the shooting by Zircon of the frigate Admiral Gorshkov at one of the Northern landfills fleet in the Barents Sea. It was reported that a rocket launched from a ship overcame more than 500 km and hit a target located on the shore. It was clarified that the first launch was carried out in January.

As you know, to launch the Zircon missile, the 3S-14 universal ship’s firing complex (UKSK) is used, designed to fire the Caliber and Onyx. Currently, UKSK 3S-14 is equipped with all new ships under construction, as well as undergoing modernization. In addition, the UKKS is equipped with multi-purpose submarines of Project 885 Ash.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. Honest Citizen
    Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 09: 57
    +3
    Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...
    1. Nadsor
      Nadsor 11 March 2020 10: 08
      +9
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...

      And the howl that it's cartoons)))
      Well, God forbid, that without a hitch they passed the tests ..
      Such harassment is now terrible for Russia, but we cannot be brought to our knees!
      1. Honest Citizen
        Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 10: 10
        32 th
        Such persecution is now terrible for Russia,but we can’t get on our knees !

        Did we get up from them? I don’t see something.
        And if the army does not raise big questions, then the internal politics and the economy - I'm afraid what I have to say here, "we get down on our knees from a prone position, but that's only tomorrow."
        1. Boratsagdiev
          Boratsagdiev 11 March 2020 10: 48
          +6
          You just described the Kama Sutra.
          Now lying, now sitting ... participating at least in the course of their participation in the processes?)
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 11 March 2020 11: 41
          +8
          Quote: Honest Citizen
          Did we get up from them?

          belay Still standing? What a clinical delay you have!
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 12 March 2020 12: 25
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Quote: Honest Citizen
            Did we get up from them?

            belay Still standing? What a clinical delay you have!

            How bent (I won’t specify how ... shame! lol ), and until now comrade, "honest" did not unbend. What is extremely "honest" admits ... laughing
        3. Nadsor
          Nadsor 11 March 2020 11: 43
          +5
          Quote: Honest Citizen
          Did we get up from them? I don’t see something.

          We got up, judging by howling and bullying .. hi
          Quote: Honest Citizen
          then domestic politics and economics - I'm afraid that we need to say, "we kneel from a prone position, but this is only tomorrow."

          Well, it’s more difficult here, while the Chubais are sitting with us and waiting again for the 90s ..
          1. Honest Citizen
            Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 11: 47
            11 th
            Well, it’s more difficult here, while the Chubais are sitting with us and waiting again for the 90s ..

            Who prevented Putin from replacing all the Chubais for 20 years? He planted Hodor without even blinking an eye. And billions did not help the latter.
            So WHO is so omnipotent that he did not let Chubais plant?
            1. Nadsor
              Nadsor 11 March 2020 12: 00
              +3
              Quote: Honest Citizen
              Who prevented Putin from replacing all the Chubais for 20 years?

              He promised not to touch EBN and K ... if they did not bother him!
              Quote: Honest Citizen
              He planted Hodor without even blinking an eye. And billions did not help the latter.

              Having believed in his stolen billions, Hodor decided to become the ruler of Russia and the oil tycoon with the support of Western Zionists .. They put him in prison and in vain released)))
              Quote: Honest Citizen
              So WHO is so omnipotent that he did not let Chubais plant?

              But the devil knows whose he will be .. But he is also arrogant and Russophobe .. hi
            2. Antiliberast
              Antiliberast 11 March 2020 19: 37
              +2
              So WHO is so omnipotent that he did not let Chubais plant?
              Half of the Chubais are under house arrest, Abyzov is in the pre-trial detention center (extended the sentence). Chubais doesn’t let his head land (read the brains), namely, when we were blocked by technology, he quickly set up a company for these technologies behind the hill, or on an island (I forgot where exactly) to which sanctions do not apply and slowly there the endovy technologies are also tying into the house. Literally, I don’t remember the request (decree) of the GDP, you’re stealing, but if you don’t sit down for the benefit of the country, don’t forget about yourself. By the way, when was the last time you saw Chubais over the hill?
            3. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 12 March 2020 20: 36
              0
              Quote: Honest Citizen
              So WHO is so omnipotent that he did not let Chubais plant?

              How much in this world, Horatio's friend ...
      2. x.andvlad
        x.andvlad 11 March 2020 10: 51
        -1
        Quote: Nadsor
        And the howl that it's cartoons)))

        And in order not to "howl" and not to question our military-technical achievements, you need to learn how to shoot beautiful videos instead of cartoons, in which they can be clearly shown, preferably in slow motion (of course, within acceptable limits).
        1. Nadsor
          Nadsor 11 March 2020 11: 05
          +3
          Quote: x.andvlad
          And in order not to "howl" and not to question our military-technical achievements, you need to learn how to shoot beautiful videos instead of cartoons, in which they can be clearly shown, preferably in slow motion (of course, within acceptable limits).

          I remember a professor here, in 2013, etc. I liked here high-quality pictures to spread the teachings of NATO troops (I always ran here in turtles))) ..
          And then he suddenly stopped after the Crimea and Syria !!!!
          We are still learning PR in Russia, although it’s more typical for us to feel poor about mentality .. Here we are silent about our achievements!
          1. x.andvlad
            x.andvlad 11 March 2020 11: 17
            +1
            Quote: Nadsor
            We are still studying PR in Russia, though ...

            And this also needs to be learned, because the Americans understand this "language" very well.
            1. Nadsor
              Nadsor 11 March 2020 11: 40
              +3
              Quote: x.andvlad
              Quote: Nadsor
              We are still studying PR in Russia, though ...

              And this also needs to be learned, because the Americans understand this "language" very well.

              I agree ! And we are learning this and not bad .. Our RT works well. Well, the military, the main thing is not getting on the rampage soldier
          2. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 11 March 2020 19: 55
            -1
            Quote: Nadsor
            We are silent about our achievements!

            are we silent then ?! You just read the article - forgot it already? We are told about an event that has not yet happened! And so - in everything: there will be something soon, it will soon be on the database, it will receive soon, it will master in the near future ... etc. What is this if not cries of success, and not yet held ???

            But with good advertising, we really have a failure. The cartoons are pretty tired of it, but, alas, they don’t know how to present an event, a picture ... (some parades are worth it)
        2. Antiliberast
          Antiliberast 11 March 2020 19: 43
          0
          Quote: x.andvlad
          And in order not to "howl" and not to question our military-technical achievements, you need to learn how to shoot beautiful videos instead of cartoons,

          No need, then let it be a surprise, otherwise we have nothing but sticks. Showing beautiful videos, we stimulate diarrhea beyond the hillock, and make them move with it, and let them sit quietly and be proud of their most breakthrough and smart rocket (c) that wiped Syria off the face of the earth when Trump arrived.
      3. Antiliberast
        Antiliberast 11 March 2020 19: 45
        0
        Such harassment is now terrible for Russia, but we cannot be brought to our knees!
        Mi..n, is that you? I’m truly glad to see fellow drinks
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 11 March 2020 10: 12
      +5
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...

      Now they don’t start, they crow early, it’s written
      The Zircon hypersonic missile will be launched from a submarine after several launches from a surface ship.

      That is, a series of test launches from the ship has not yet been carried out, but a launch from a submarine is already being announced. Why is it so early to write - so that the so-called "zaluzhniki" get ready to take off the launch and flight parameters when they are warned about the tests ?!
      So why run "ahead of the locomotive" ?!
      1. Honest Citizen
        Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 10: 15
        26 th
        So why run "ahead of the locomotive" ?!

        For the patriots, that they would work more actively on the eve of April 22.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 11 March 2020 10: 43
          +7
          For the patriots, that they would work more actively on the eve of April 22.

          go already discuss Tereshkova’s statements. In that thread you have the place. Why did you come running here?
          1. Honest Citizen
            Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 10: 47
            20 th
            go already discuss Tereshkova’s statements. In that thread you have the place. Why did you come running here?

            Maybe you write on the site, at registration: not members of EdRa have no place here?
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 11 March 2020 11: 07
              12
              Maybe you write on the site, at registration: not members of EdRa have no place here?

              I would write that there is no place for fools here, but you will crawl anyway laughing
              I see you, consumed by a sense of justice, ran to minus all my comments. Even those that relate to purely military topics and have nothing to do with the topic of politics that is so hotly licked by you. Well, you are an ideological fighter, you can see right away laughing
              1. Honest Citizen
                Honest Citizen 11 March 2020 11: 44
                12 th
                I see you, consumed by a sense of justice, ran to minus all my comments.

                still do not believe it - I didn’t even put 1 minus. I have my own, unwritten rule - I do not put a plus or minus to the person with whom I am talking.
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 11 March 2020 11: 43
          +4
          Quote: Honest Citizen
          Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...

          Quote: Honest Citizen
          For the patriots, that they would work more actively on the eve of April 22.

          laughing Do you probably have 1st category jump shoes?
    3. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 11 March 2020 10: 33
      +7
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...

      Not only among the hostages. Some locals will also go deep.
    4. cniza
      cniza 11 March 2020 10: 51
      +3
      Quote: Honest Citizen
      Oh, now the hostages will begin new headaches, and not only pains ...


      And these are their problems ...
  2. megadeth
    megadeth 11 March 2020 10: 03
    +3
    It pleases, pleases ..., and the shock drone is faster ... !!! The next test should be carried out on the pro-Turkish barmels in Idlib ...
    1. bessmertniy
      bessmertniy 11 March 2020 10: 11
      -1
      All barmaleys will have nuts if they do not understand that we will get them all out from under the water! wassat
      1. cniza
        cniza 11 March 2020 10: 50
        +1
        This is, first of all, for highly excited Western politicians, and with barmales, weapons are simpler enough.
    2. Grits
      Grits 11 March 2020 11: 15
      0
      Quote: megadeth
      It pleases, pleases ..., and the shock drone is faster ... !!! The next test should be carried out on the pro-Turkish barmels in Idlib ...

      Indeed, it would have been fun at the next overseas of the Syrian army to organize the same mirror response with attacks on artillery and armored vehicles using UAVs, including drums. The Turks would be fucked up by such impudence. Yes, and the prestige of Russia would be on top - would show that we are not only an oil column.
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 10: 06
    -9
    Already "Zircon" is not called RCC. While there are no successful launches at a sea target with the capture of its seeker, the anti-ship missile is not.
    1. bars1
      bars1 11 March 2020 10: 11
      -3
      IMHO, the ground target is more complicated than the sea.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 10: 25
        -5
        Quote: bars1
        IMHO, the ground target is more complicated than the sea.

        There is no data anywhere that a ground target (of unknown size by the way) was captured with the help of the GOS! And with known coordinates, GPS accuracy allows you to cover a target the size of a bus, without any homing, at any range.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 11 March 2020 10: 41
          +5
          And with known coordinates, GPS accuracy makes it possible to cover a target the size of a bus, without any homing.

          Apparently do you have a test program?
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 10: 46
            -6
            Quote: Ka-52
            Apparently do you have a test program?
            Apparently you have a problem with logic, because what contradicts:
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            And with known coordinates, GPS accuracy allows you to cover a target the size of a bus, without any homing, at any range.
            the absence of at least some data on the method of targeting during the tests of the Zircon.
            1. rudolff
              rudolff 11 March 2020 11: 18
              -1
              I would not be surprised if Zircon turns out to be an aeroballistic missile.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 11: 20
                -5
                This is very unlikely. ))) UKKS such a thing, it does not screw onto the plane. Although, if the plane is marine, then everything can be. laughing
                1. rudolff
                  rudolff 11 March 2020 11: 35
                  -1
                  And UKKS and to the plane? There is an aeroballistic missile in the Iskander nomenclature. There is a variant of the same air-based missile, the bish dagger. Why Zircon cannot be a variant of this rocket for NK and PL?
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 11: 44
                    -4
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Although, if the plane is marine
                    Uh, well, how could it be such a joke, because UKSK is the marine SHIP complex, that's about the MARINE airplanes that I joked about.
                    Quote: rudolff
                    There is an aeroballistic missile in the Iskander nomenclature
                    Here people were fighting to foam on their lips that the "Dagger" is strictly the newest, in no way related to the "Iskander" hypersonic missile, and you demoted it! BUT, in the case of Iskander, the missile, in principle, cannot be AERO ballistic, for obvious reasons.
                    1. rudolff
                      rudolff 11 March 2020 11: 59
                      -2
                      I met two options for defining the term 《aeroballistic missile》. The first is an air-based ballistic missile. The second is a ballistic missile, whose flight is carried out entirely in the air and control after the engine is turned off is carried out by aerodynamic means. I used the second version of the definition of the term, but I do not insist on it.
                      1. Grigory_45
                        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 26
                        0
                        Quote: rudolff
                        rocket whose flight is carried out entirely in the air and control after engine shutdown carried out by aerodynamic means.

                        if aerodynamic surfaces - it’s already a cruise missile
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 11 March 2020 20: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Gregory_45
                        Quote: rudolff
                        rocket whose flight is carried out entirely in the air and control after engine shutdown carried out by aerodynamic means.

                        if aerodynamic surfaces - it’s already a cruise missile

                        Do you have infa that cruise missiles fly with their engines off?
                      3. Grigory_45
                        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Liam
                        Do you have infa that cruise missiles fly with their engines off?

                        but you didn’t notice anything besides the engine?

                        "I didn't notice the elephant" .. (c)
                      4. Liam
                        Liam 11 March 2020 20: 56
                        0
                        Cognition does not bring anyone to good. Perhaps this is news for you, but some ballistic missiles, planes and drones also have aerodynamic surfaces. And a hang glider)
                        However, it is difficult to define all of them as cruise missiles.
                      5. Grigory_45
                        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 21: 06
                        -1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Perhaps this is news for you, but some ballistic missiles, planes, and UAVs have aerodynamic surfaces, too, and a hang glider)

                        oh, thanks for the enlightenment)) And then I would die a dense bibzyana))

                        What made you franticly indignant at not giving a full definition of the term KP? So, it wasn’t required in the context of comments (if you read it more carefully, you would see that everything is clear there. If it becomes easier for you, then the KR is an unmanned, single-use aircraft equipped with a warhead, control system, aerodynamic surfaces and a trajectory flight of which takes place in the air (atmosphere). Previously, they were called shell aircraft)

                        Quote: Liam
                        Cognition does not bring anyone to good

                        I don’t have it at all. But your tediousness, sir - is a vice
                      6. Liam
                        Liam 11 March 2020 21: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Gregory_45
                        it is an unmanned, single-use aircraft equipped with a warhead, control system, aerodynamic surfaces, and the flight path of which passes in the air (atmosphere).

                        This is all interesting. However, the topic of the turned off engine is bypassed for some reason). The user rudolff indicated exactly this
                      7. Grigory_45
                        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 21: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Liam
                        However, the topic of the engine turned off for some reason was circumvented.) User rudolff indicated exactly this

                        or did you think so?

                        Ok, then the question is backfill: is the anti-aircraft missile cruise? The vast majority of missiles overcome most of the flight with an already inactive engine.
                    2. Liam
                      Liam 11 March 2020 21: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Gregory_45
                      your tediousness

                      This seems boring to you because of ignorance of the materiel. A flight with the engine turned off is possible only with a certain ballistic trajectory. Therefore, the theme of the engine is fundamental in this context. And not aerodynamic surfaces
                    3. Grigory_45
                      Grigory_45 11 March 2020 21: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Liam
                      Flight with the engine off is only possible with a certain ballistic trajectory

                      anti-aircraft missiles and gliders wave your hand))

                      Quote: Liam
                      due to ignorance of the materiel

                      so enlighten what a ballistic trajectory is))
                    4. Liam
                      Liam 11 March 2020 21: 28
                      0
                      Quote: Gregory_45
                      anti-aircraft missiles and gliders

                      He said the same materiel)
                      Cruise missiles have their own specific features. For example, by designation-RCC or Surface / Surface (hello SAMs and gliders). Well, and made by airplane.
                      Unlike SAM:
                      Propulsion system KR ground and pestilence. basing consists of a starting accelerator and a marching engine. As the latter can be used as a rocket (liquid or solid fuel), and an air-jet engine. The starting accelerator is, as a rule, a solid-fuel jet engine (there is no air-based KR). The engine has an automatic. electronic hydraulic. a control system that provides a change in its modes and thrust adjustment during missile flight.
                      If you do not suffer arrogance and obstinacy, all these things are well known
                    5. Grigory_45
                      Grigory_45 11 March 2020 21: 57
                      0
                      Quote: Liam
                      Unlike SAM:
                      Propulsion system KR ground and pestilence. basing consists of a starting accelerator and a marching engine. As the latter can be used as a rocket (liquid or solid fuel), and an air-jet engine. The starting accelerator is, as a rule, a solid-fuel jet engine (there is no air-based KR). The engine has an automatic. electronic hydraulic. a control system that provides a change in its modes and thrust adjustment during the flight of the rocket.

                      it's all pure constructive. Principal you still do not understand the differences: a cruise missile has bearing aerodynamic surfaces. It is kept in the air due to the lifting force arising on them.
                      A ballistic missile, most of the way, follows a ballistic trajectory, that is, it is in uncontrolled motion. In motion, which is due to the initial velocity and gravity of the Earth.

                      Quote: Liam
                      hi ... gliders

                      the glider makes a controlled flight, although it does not have an engine) Due to aerodynamic lift.

                      And finally: some missiles have a starting accelerator)) This is not exclusively a CR (and some CRs can easily do without an accelerator)
                    6. Liam
                      Liam 11 March 2020 22: 08
                      0
                      Quote: Gregory_45
                      some missiles have a starting accelerator)) This is not exclusively owned by the Kyrgyz Republic

                      ))) They say that obstinacy is a defect in character and not in the mind.
                      An exceptional feature of the Kyrgyz Republic that distinguishes them from missiles, aerobalistic missiles and other hang gliders is the presence of a mid-flight engine working all the time of the flight. And not the presence / absence of a launch accelerator
                    7. Grigory_45
                      Grigory_45 11 March 2020 22: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Liam
                      Exceptional feature of the Kyrgyz Republic

                      this is the presence of a wing. It is thanks to him that they make a controlled flight in the atmosphere

                      Quote: Liam
                      And not the presence / absence of a starting accelerator

                      about accelerators you sang songs)
  4. rudolff
    rudolff 11 March 2020 20: 49
    +1
    Sorry, you're wrong. The Iskander (ballistic missile) after engine development is also controlled by aerodynamic means, but this does not make it a cruise missile.
  5. Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 11 March 2020 21: 09
    0
    Quote: rudolff
    Iskander (ballistic missile) after engine development is also controlled by aerodynamic means

    is controlled throughout the flight ??? Or does he fly most of the flight along a ballistic trajectory ???
  6. rudolff
    rudolff 11 March 2020 21: 23
    +1
    Why or or? It is also controlled in the ballistic section of the trajectory. Anti-aircraft maneuvering, targeting a moving target. Hence the "quasi-ballistic" trajectory.
  7. Operator
    Operator 11 March 2020 21: 09
    0
    A winged / aeroballistic missile is a rocket equipped with supporting aerodynamic surfaces (on which a lifting force arises in the region of the center of gravity of the rocket) —wings or a bearing body.

    On the control surfaces of the rocket (such as tail / nasal rudders), a tipping rather than a bearing force is formed.
  • Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter 11 March 2020 11: 46
    +1
    Quote: rudolff
    And UKKS and to the plane? There is an aeroballistic missile in the Iskander nomenclature. There is a variant of the same air-based missile, the bish dagger. Why Zircon cannot be a variant of this rocket for NK and PL?

    Because the same Dagger in size will not fit into the UKKS. And generally for this reason all over the world on ships use KR and RCC, but not aeroballistic missiles.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 11 March 2020 12: 08
      -3
      The vertical start setting can be done by anyone. On the last Virginia blocks, the launch diameter is close to the diameter of the SLBM shaft. And we are now conjuring over the modernization of the UKKS S-14. The diameter of the dagger I do not know. Perhaps still less than that of Iskandor and close to Onyx.
      1. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 23
        +1
        Quote: rudolff
        The diameter of the dagger I do not know.

        approximately 900 mm. The dimensions of the Dagger and Onyx can be estimated by the available photos - the first thicker P-800 will be

        Quote: rudolff
        On the last Virginia blocks, the launch diameter is close to the diameter of the SLBM shaft.

        because in each PU (mine) there are 4 CRs (the same as in domestic Ash-trees)
      2. rudolff
        rudolff 11 March 2020 20: 42
        0
        In Virginia, instead of 12 launchers, they now install 2 launchers of six missiles each. In fact, PU is equal in diameter to the SLBM shaft. Ashen has slightly different dimensions of PU.
  • bars1
    bars1 11 March 2020 11: 51
    0
    It is unlikely that Zircon is a marine version of the Dagger. Otherwise, he would not be so secret.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 11 March 2020 13: 51
    0
    Quote: rudolff
    Why Zircon cannot be a variant of this rocket for NK and PL?

    Friendly, because under this business they planed a unified PU, which is suitable for both Caliber and Onyx and Zircons at the same time. A missile like Iskander’s stupidly will not fit there.
  • bars1
    bars1 11 March 2020 11: 49
    +1
    It is possible that Zircon consists of a solid propellant booster stage and a planning warhead. At least this is easiest to implement. If Zircon is with the scramjet then this will be a truly technological breakthrough on a global scale.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 11 March 2020 12: 12
      +1
      So this is exactly what I’m talking about.
  • Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 12
    0
    Quote: rudolff
    I would not be surprised if Zircon turns out to be an aeroballistic missile.

    aeroballistic - by definition, no (aero - implies air carrier)) It was planned for use from ships and submarines, from a modified unified UKKS. Where BR, with all desire, does not fit))
    Also, this is RCC - i.e. rocket designed to shoot at moving targets
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 11 March 2020 11: 39
    +4
    Apparently you have a problem with logic, because what contradicts:

    Vladimir, why are you singing the same song again if the last time, already in the course of a long argument, you yourself abandoned the initially stated assumptions? Or is your memory bad?
    the absence of at least some data on the method of targeting during the tests of the Zircon.

    This phrase from the point of view of normal (and not your individual) logic only says that there is NO data! No data means (for you on purpose) that it does not have any information about the test program in the public domain. Neither the type of target, nor the flight route, nor the method of guidance, nor the operating modes of the missile seeker, nor the degree of fluctuation of target signals, nor the interference situation in the target area. There is nothing. But this does not prevent you to lift a finger to the sky and say: "̶I̶s̶t̶i̶n̶n̶o̶ ̶g̶o̶v̶o̶r̶yu̶ ̶v̶a̶m̶, ̶ ̶ ̶4̶ ̶m̶a̶ya̶ ̶1̶9̶2̶5̶ ̶g̶o̶d̶a̶ ̶Z̶e̶m̶l̶ya̶ ̶n̶a̶l̶e̶t̶i̶t̶ ̶n̶a̶ ̶n̶e̶b̶e̶s̶n̶u̶yu̶ ̶o̶s̶̶ ̶ Guidance was not the GPS was a primitive!!"
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 12: 20
      -3
      Quote: Ka-52
      Vladimir, why are you singing the same song again if the last time, already in the course of a long argument, you yourself abandoned the initially stated assumptions? Or is your memory bad?
      And you remind me, poke, finger, so to speak, where I refused that a missile without a GOS can not be an anti-ship missile, poke your finger into at least some mention of the Zircon GOS in print.
      Quote: Ka-52
      No data means (specifically for you) that in the public domain does not have any information about the test program.
      However, this did not stop you from building directly epic assumptions:
      The flight mode could include a standard flight according to ANN with the transition to an active search for GOS with radar guidance when entering the target lesion area. The target in this case is equipped with an additional corner reflector. In addition, there could be several targets for testing the target selection program of the missile computer. Could create an additional jamming situation in the target area and on the flight path sections.
      This is from your early work, and now it’s no worse:
      Quote: Ka-52
      Neither about the type of target, nor about the flight route, nor about the guidance method, nor about the operating modes of the GOS missile, nor about the degree of fluctuation of the target signals, nor about the interference situation in the target area
      Let me just remind you that "primitive" satellite guidance allows you to hit a target with known coordinates with an accuracy of at least 4 m and the absence of a seeker is not a hindrance to this, but without a seeker, a missile cannot be an anti-ship missile.

      Quote: Ka-52
      There was no guidance! There was a primitive GPS
      Maybe GLONASS, even more likely.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 11 March 2020 12: 38
        +3
        lack of seeker

        let's look from the other side. Answer a simple question: on the basis of what did you make the statement that ARGSN does not have Zircon, and does it mean that the missile was aimed at the target according to a single mode - using the navigation system? As a result, the same question arises in parallel: do you have a test program? Or are all your statements born from a blablabla and with the help of thoughtful pouting?
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 12: 47
          -3
          Quote: Ka-52
          on the basis of which you had the statement that Zircon does not have ARGSN
          On the other hand, on the other hand, on the basis of what did you get the statement that Zircon has ARGSN?
          Quote: Ka-52
          Or all your statements are born from a blablab and with the help of thoughtful pouting
          Here you have brilliantly commented on your own comments now.
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Hitting a ground target with a missile with ARGS is more difficult than sea
          I completely agree, but in this case, we would first conduct sea tests to capture and defeat the target, because they are simpler, BUT not a word about it! For the smallest occasion, there is chatter on all the news, but not a guugu.
          Crackling in the media for the slightest even a little bit good reason, but not a word about the defeat of a sea target using GOS! Will you also refute this with your usual exaltation?
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 11 March 2020 13: 30
            +1
            On the other hand, on the other hand, on the basis of what did you get the statement that Zircon has ARGSN?

            ndaaa, answering a question with a question is a very consistent position. We assume that you have no reason for approval.
            Here you have brilliantly commented on your own comments now.

            well, to translate arrows in the style of "myself" is also a high level in the latest rhetoric. Well done laughing
            Crackling in the media for the slightest even a little bit good reason, but not a word about the defeat of a sea target using GOS! Will you also refute this with your usual exaltation?

            amazed at your deepest analysis of the characteristics of the latest weapons based on the content of the "chatter in the media". I think if empty statements have a bottom, then today you have finally broken through it. hi
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 18: 31
              -1
              Quote: Ka-52
              ndaaa, answer a question with a question - a very consistent position
              And what is it that you haven’t answered this in any way:
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              And you remind me, poke, finger, so to speak, where I refused that a missile without a seeker can not be an anti-ship missile, poke your finger at at least some mention of the Zircon seeker in print
              But then they started asking questions. So the question for the question is your style.
              Quote: Ka-52
              Here you have brilliantly commented on your own comments
              with.
              well, translating arrows in the style of "himself is" is also a high level in the latest rhetoric
              Well, the holy truth, what have the "arrows" to do with it. You also fight quotes, thereby distorting the meaning, as it suits you, maybe it will slip through.
              Quote: Ka-52
              the lack of at least some data on the method of targeting during the tests of the Zircon
              Here is the full quote:
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              for what contradicts:
              And with known coordinates, GPS accuracy allows you to cover a target the size of a bus, without any homing, at any range
              .
              the absence of at least some data on the method of targeting during the tests of the Zircon.
              Maybe you deny that using satellite navigation you can hit a target with previously known coordinates, with high accuracy? Neither in this article, nor anywhere else, is this explicitly mentioned, but neither is there any mention of an efficient, at least any active radar seeker (or any other) or their participation in targeting. Give at least one example about the GOS Zircon, at least from a cracking source, at least from some.
              bars1 (Sergey) Today, 11:42
              To hit a ground target with a missile with ARGSN is more difficult than a sea one.

              I completely agree with this, but elementary logic says that at first they conduct simpler tests, so where are the reports of the successful defeat of the sea target?
      2. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 35
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        poke your finger into at least some mention of the GOS "Zircon" in print

        well, initially the 3K-22 Zircon complex was designed as an interspecific missile system with a hypersonic missile / anti-ship missile for operational purposes.
        The media reported in 2018 that the tests of the Zircon rocket have been underway for about 4 years and more than 10 launches of the product have been carried out at sea targets, and tests from surface ships are planned to begin in 2019. It was also reported that the rocket should have "the universality of destruction of sea and land targets has been achieved."

        There is fragmentary information about the enterprises that are developing, and about the components of the R&D that they perform, but not a word about the developer or at least the type of GOS.

        However, you must admit that RCC without a GOS is a rather strange rocket?

        What actually happened - I hope we will find out soon. While there is no reliable information, we can only build assumptions of varying degrees of reliability. So it's too early to break spears ...
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 12 March 2020 03: 28
          -1
          Quote: Gregory_45
          well, initially the 3K-22 Zircon complex was designed as an interspecific missile system with a hypersonic missile / anti-ship missile for operational purposes.
          In 2018, the media reported that the tests of the Zircon rocket have been underway for about 4 years, and more than 10 launches of the product at sea targets have been completed, and tests from surface ships are planned to begin in 2019.
          Yes, here is the link:
          http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-718.html
          However, it indicates, in addition to the above, and this:
          On 21.12.2018/4/10, the source reports that the tests of the Zircon rocket have been underway for about 2019 years and more than XNUMX launches of the product at sea targets have been carried out, and tests from surface ships are planned to begin in XNUMX. This message has not been confirmed and, possibly is not true.
          Quote: Gregory_45
          However, you must admit that RCC without a GOS is a rather strange rocket?

          I completely agree with you, however, in this one, the one above,) and in the previous articles we are talking about the defeat of a ground target, which is quite achievable with the help of satellite guidance, like in some "primitive" UAB. ))
  • Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 10
    0
    Quote: Ka-52
    Apparently do you have a test program?

    you don’t need to have a test program on the table and be a genius to know that any technique (in this case, a rocket) is tested in several stages. From bench tests, carriage on a carrier, throwing starts and starts to check the reliability of the engine, steering gears, etc. And only then they screw instead of the mass-scale layout of the GOS and begin practical firing. To conduct the entire test cycle, scattering very expensive GOS - pretty expensive. To shoot at a ground target, the GOS is not needed. It is enough to check the correct operation of the ANN and GPS
  • bars1
    bars1 11 March 2020 11: 42
    0
    To hit a ground target with a missile with ARGSN is more difficult than a sea one. And if under these conditions the ground target is hit, then the defeat of the sea will not be difficult (we won’t touch the ship’s electronic warfare equipment) But all the chiefs say in chorus that Zircon is exactly the RCC. And what kind of RCC without GOS?
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 12: 27
      -2
      Quote: bars1
      Hitting a ground target with a missile with ARGS is more difficult than sea

      I completely agree, but in this case, we would first conduct sea tests to capture and defeat the target, because they are simpler, BUT not a word about it! For the smallest occasion, there is chatter on all the news, but not a guugu.
  • Tiksi-3
    Tiksi-3 11 March 2020 10: 27
    +4
    Quote: bars1
    IMHO, the ground target is more complicated than the sea.

    belay wassat lol That's it IMHO !!!
  • Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 00
    0
    Quote: bars1
    IMHO, the ground target is more complicated than the sea

    what is it, sorry, more complicated? The fact that it is stationary does not move anywhere? The fact that there are clear landmarks on earth that make it easier to launch a rocket, in contrast to the sea surface, where can you catch anything? The more difficult, argue)
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 11 March 2020 10: 39
    +6
    Already "Zircon" is not called RCC. While there are no successful launches at a sea target with the capture of its seeker, the anti-ship missile is not

    and what is it in your personal indexer? Flying telegraph pole? Gingerbread House? laughing
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 11 March 2020 10: 50
      -7
      Quote: Ka-52
      and what is it in your personal indexer? Flying telegraph pole? Gingerbread House?
      I remember that you accused me of stupid trolling, now it is he who is. As well as usual, in your case.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 11 March 2020 10: 08
    +6
    According to the source, as part of the tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile, three or four launches will be made from the frigate Admiral Gorshkov, after which the tests will continue on the submarine. The launches are planned from a submerged position from the Severodvinsk nuclear submarine.
    I believe that the launches will still take place, and therefore - GOOD LUCK! Much is at stake.
  • cniza
    cniza 11 March 2020 10: 47
    +3
    According to the source, as part of the tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile, three or four launches will be made from the frigate Admiral Gorshkov, after which the tests will continue on the submarine.


    The cries of the West should not bother us.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 11 March 2020 11: 23
    0
    "Zircons" will greatly change the balance of forces on the seas. And anti-ship and overland ... It is every diesel boat that turns into a serious enemy. And they can easily reach many places on their own.
    Good help for the Premier League.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 11 March 2020 11: 37
      +3
      And each diesel how? Start-up from vertical launchers, and such we have so far only on one submarine.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 11 March 2020 12: 11
        -1
        Quote: rudolff
        And each diesel how? Start-up from vertical launchers, and such we have so far only on one submarine.

        How are Calibers launched? I think Zircons also ...
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 11 March 2020 12: 17
          +2
          A caliber in a different weight category, with a smaller diameter, is launched both from vertical launchers and through torpedo tubes. Onyx won't fit into TA, and Zircon is definitely not "thinner".
          1. Sky strike fighter
            Sky strike fighter 11 March 2020 13: 20
            +1
            Onyx and Zircon can be launched from UKKS, but not from TA.
            Missiles 3M55 "Onyx" (diameter 670 mm plus the launch capsule) do not fit either standard (533-mm) or large-caliber (650-mm) torpedo tubes of submarines, they need vertical launch units (UVP) - like those that used on "Ash" (CM-346). Thus, the 3M54 is the only type of anti-ship missile system that can be used with submarines (including project 636.3) from the standard TA.

            https://topwar.ru/116085-raznotipnost-pkr-obremenitelnoe-nasledstvo.html
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 11 March 2020 18: 11
              -1
              Quote: Sky Strike fighter
              Onyx and Zircon can be launched from UKKS, but not from TA

              Sorry. Did not know. It would be great.
        2. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 11 March 2020 20: 42
          0
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          How are Calibers launched? I think also "Zircons"

          from TA, only Caliber family missiles are launched. Onyx is too big (TA has a caliber of 533 mm, Onyx has a diameter without TPK - 670 mm), and it is slightly longer. Onyx - only from UKKS
          From the Onyx submarine, Ash 855 (they have mine installations) and, in the future, Antei 949 can be used
  • Old26
    Old26 11 March 2020 13: 45
    +1
    Quote: Starover_Z
    That is, a series of test launches from the ship has not yet been carried out, but a launch from a submarine is already being announced. Why is it so early to write - so that the so-called "zaluzhniki" get ready to take off the launch and flight parameters when they are warned about the tests ?!
    So why run "ahead of the locomotive" ?!

    I completely agree with you, Yuri! the first start is not about anything yet. Let the whole LCI cycle work out, and then it will already be possible to "throw caps into the air." Sometimes there are very different things. For example, all 16 drop tests (9 - first and 7 second stage) SLBM R-39 were excellent, and then 5 flight tests in a row were unsuccessful. So as the proverb says "don't tell gop ..."

    Quote: bars1
    IMHO, the ground target is more complicated than the sea.

    Of course more complicated. Firstly, it does not move, unlike a sea target, so getting on a ground target is an order of magnitude more difficult than getting on a sea target. Secondly, in most cases, a ground target has no air defense means, and getting to a target with no air defense is much more difficult than to get a target that has air defense ... What else do you mean by IMHO ???

    Quote: rudolff
    And UKKS and to the plane? There is an aeroballistic missile in the Iskander nomenclature. There is a variant of the same air-based missile, the bish dagger. Why Zircon cannot be a variant of this rocket for NK and PL?

    Simply due to the fact, Rudolph, that the aeroballistic one in the dimensions of the UKSK is unlikely to reach the speed of 9M, and the range that is claimed for the Zircon.

    Quote: rudolff
    The vertical start setting can be done by anyone. On the last Virginia blocks, the launch diameter is close to the diameter of the SLBM shaft. And we are now conjuring over the modernization of the UKKS S-14. The diameter of the dagger I do not know. Perhaps still less than that of Iskandor and close to Onyx.

    Any diameter can be made. This is not particularly difficult. The diameter of the Dagger is, in principle, the same as that of the Iskander. That is, 91 cm. But only further problems begin. If everything is as positioned - i.e. the flight range of the "Dagger" itself is about 1300 km, then Russia is going to gross violation of the treaty on strategic weapons. For there is a ban on the deployment of ballistic missiles on ships that are not submarines with a range of more than 600 km ...

    Quote: bars1
    It is possible that Zircon consists of a solid propellant booster stage and a planning warhead. At least this is easiest to implement. If Zircon is with the scramjet then this will be a truly technological breakthrough on a global scale.

    This option is technically possible, but then the Zircon cannot be an anti-ship missile, because there are a lot of problems to make such a BB controllable, and even more so anti-ship
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 11 March 2020 14: 51
      0
      Is Zircon a variant of an aerobalistic rocket, I do not say. Rather, I ask myself a question. They just don’t dance about all the promised characteristics, just do it. Or a different range, or speed, or mass dimensions.
    2. bars1
      bars1 11 March 2020 16: 07
      0
      Old26, it’s more difficult to get on the ground due to the peculiarities of the land surface (all kinds of false reflections interfering with the ARGS, it’s easier at sea) And the speed of marine objects even for subsonic anti-ship missiles if their GOS was captured by the target is nothing. And here we are talking about hypersound
      Americans and Japanese make hypersonic warheads precisely high-precision. And the Japanese are still in the anti-ship version.
  • Self
    Self 11 March 2020 17: 56
    +1
    Why does all this news always come "with reference to a source in the military-industrial complex. ? Not the press service of the Ministry of Defense. Not even a few officials. Not representatives of the manufacturer. Always just a "source". Is this a cleaning lady, or maybe a security guard? We can only guess.
  • Old26
    Old26 12 March 2020 16: 46
    +1
    Quote: bars1
    Old26, it’s more difficult to get on the ground due to the peculiarities of the land surface (all kinds of false reflections interfering with the ARGS, it’s easier at sea) And the speed of marine objects even for subsonic anti-ship missiles if their GOS was captured by the target is nothing. And here we are talking about hypersound
    Americans and Japanese make hypersonic warheads precisely high-precision. And the Japanese are still in the anti-ship version.

    Sergei! Firstly, a ground stationary target can be struck using the INS plus a system based on comparing electronic maps of the terrain with the actual underlying surface at the main stages of flight. Plus a satellite navigation system using GPS or GLONASS systems. And on the target itself, a warhead, "tuned" to capture radio-contrast targets, can work. As, in principle, it is implemented on the same "Caliber" 1M3. In this case, there will be no special interference for ARGSN. Well, of course, if you don't have to shoot at a building surrounded by others. But I do not think that for this purpose (which will not "run away" anywhere) it is necessary to use a hypersonic missile
    I do not think that the speed of sea objects is nothing for even a subsonic anti-ship missile. Most often, the coverage area of ​​the GOS in azimuth is ± 45 °. The target acquisition range with such dimensions of the seeker is about 60-70 km. Having captured the target "on a hill" or with a "high-altitude flight trajectory", the anti-ship missile system drops to an ultra-low altitude and most often follows the INS. And only at an extremely short distance from the target does the adjustment take place. And this is provided that the target does not go beyond the coverage area of ​​the GOS in azimuth. A naval target capable of reaching a speed of 30-32 knots may well go beyond the capture zone.
    How high-precision the GOS will be in a hypersonic missile and what the parameters of the zones of capture of this GOS will be is still unknown. No one had a test on a moving target. This is the first. And the second one. even hypersonic anti-ship missiles will approach the target no longer at hypersonic, but at supersonic speeds. Otherwise, it will corny burn in dense layers of the atmosphere ...