Grudinin and Rogozin: a strange trail in the sky


Fans of sayings in the style of “And I said!”, Wipe the keyboard. You may not recall that last year we had an article written in very bright colors after the first (and so far the last) flight of the Il-112. It was. No one is going to deny this, nor is he arguing about what it was.


It's simple: finally, a long-suffering and so necessary transport aircraft was pulled into the sky. And that’s all for now.

But let's go back a little along the timeline. It was only in 2017, when Dmitry Rogozin, senator for the military-industrial complex, and Dmitry Savelyev, director of the Il-112 program, talked about what prospects were opening up.

Prospects in words were quite. The installation lot was in June-July 2017, and was supposed to consist of two aircraft. The first takes off in June, the second in July, is being tested, and then the Voronezh Aircraft Building Plant begins to build two aircraft per month.


Prospect? Perspective. Especially when you consider how much an army transport aircraft is needed. The point here is that this “one that has no analogues in the world” is not needed, just a NEW plane is needed. Just because the veterans of Ana are already breathing. As many do not live at all, how many Ukrainian planes serve. All these An-124, An-26, An-22, An-12, An-72 - all this is our past aviation, which sooner or later will have to at least change something.

Just because we will not see new aircraft from Antonov Design Bureau in the coming decades, and perhaps never see.

However, the plane, which the Russian army was in dire need of, the Il-112V, did not take off within the scheduled time frame.

In June 2017, Nikolai Talikov, chief designer of IL, announced the transfer of tests.

In July 2018, there was information that the IL-112 program could be closed altogether, as fatal miscalculations were discovered during the design.

However, the then head of the company Il, Alexei Dmitrievich Rogozin, said that the mass production of Il-96 and Il-112V aircraft would begin at the Voronezh aircraft plant in 2020.

Well, by the way, the year 2020 is already in full swing, can Rogozin ask questions like “Where are the planes”? But - not in a hurry.

We recall how we rejoiced in March last year, when the Il-112V nevertheless made its first flight. Do you remember? And we remember. Rejoiced.

Nevertheless, the IL-112 still rose. What it cost the crew is unknown, but the first flight was still the last, since it was stated that the project would need up to a year to be finalized, and therefore the VASO runway was dismantled for major repairs just in case.

And then it began ...

Just a month later, in April 2019, “optimization” began.

As a result, Aleksey Rogozin, CEO of the airline complex, was optimized (i.e. fired). We do not comment on this at all, but it turned out that Rogozin is only the beginning.

The next laid-off (in July) were 78 top managers and leading employees of Ilyushin. Deputy CEOs for Economics, Human Resources, Legal and Marketing. Not the most helpful staff when developing aircraft, but nonetheless.

And then miracles of "optimization" began. Leading project specialists of the IL-112, IL-276 and IL-96 aircraft were dismissed.

In fact, people were put out on the street, but on the street almost everyone was already waiting. "Boeing" took in bulk, in groups. Irkutsk, Kazan, Perm - well, everyone was noted in Voronezh, and, I must say, few left without prey. People really fled to where they promised jobs and salaries.

But the main part was taken over by the Boeing, this is a fact. And the company can be really congratulated on this, the staff got what it takes.

What about the rest?

Never mind. Today VASO is a group of dull islets in which life is warm. For example, in one of the workshops, Irkut representatives are trying to make a polymer wing for the MS-21. Yes, the same, import-substituted, from domestic materials. Not from the American, as it was originally.

It is clear why the MS-21 does not fly. They cannot repeat the wing yet.

As for the affairs of Ilyushin, everything is completely dull and sad there. Out of almost a hundred departments, the lack of staff in leading specialists is more than half. Specialists are fired under various pretexts, reducing, terminating contracts, the wording “by agreement of the parties” is very popular.

In general, there is a place to be at VASO if not capture, then something so similar. The new general director, Yuri Grudinin, is a native of Taganrog, from the walls of the Beriev TNTK. An enterprise that has been releasing a single aircraft for a long time. Be-200.

Need I say how the Be-200 differs from the IL-96, IL-112? The tasks of the Ilyushin Design Bureau are much broader, since the Design Bureau has always set itself very broad tasks. Unlike Beriev’s team, working on life on seaplanes.

So Grudinin is a very controversial replacement.

But the main trouble is that Grudinin shuffles the frames that he got at VASO, as he likes best. On the one hand, this is normal; every new broom suits its performance. But the Berievites came with their charter to the Ilyushinsky monastery and began to equip it at their own discretion.

Cadres decide everything. And with the shots on "Ile" they also did everything. The Design and Technical Complex (PTK) was abolished, which worked just on the project of the medium military transport aircraft (SVTS).

The bulk of the specialists moved to the Tupolev Design Bureau. Well, they just had to go somewhere, the Tupolevs quickly realized. Those who remained were simply shredded into departments, but this is a scanty part, not more than 10%.

In the end, we have what we have. Who will still make the transport aircraft, we found out the whole of 2019. And they didn’t find out, by the way. The next episode is in April 2020. I’m ready to bet that I’ll guess who will get work on a transport plane. Which is still needed by both the army and the aerospace forces.

Since the Tupolevs actually picked up almost the entire PTK structure on the street, you can hang out about the usurpation of the market by the Tupolev Design Bureau as much as you like, but the fact is that Tu now has a full set of specialists who are ready to work on a transport plane.

At Ilyushin itself, work on the middle transporter is not conducted at all. No one.


But despite the fact that they figured out the designers, fired, dispersed, and so on, what remains? That's right, the GOZ remained. State defense order. Which, naturally, leaked. And the dismissal of the GOZ was explained by the dismissal of Alexei Rogozin.

Of the new general director, Grudinin, of course, was expected to implement the GOZ. And How?

No way.

In 2020, one single IL-76MD must be commissioned, upgraded to MDM. So far, the main number of contracts has not been signed, according to which it is possible and necessary to work, making everything necessary for modernization.

They say that the legal department was dispersed very on time.

In June 2019, VASO received an order to upgrade two IL-76MDs. In March 2020, work did not begin. Draw conclusions?

Under Rogozin, things were no better, but two aircraft were still modernized. One was done a year, with the second, 538 working days were transported. There was a third one, but work on it was stopped, the plane has been “in the process” for more than two years.

Well, with the IL-76 problem. But the new leadership for some reason stated that there are no problems with the production of IL-112. Moreover, Grudinin noted with a statement that “the assembly of the third and fourth IL-112s is already underway”.

In fact, this statement, to put it mildly, is not true.


This picture was presented to me by VASO engineers. Still engineers

If you do not believe the vigorous reports of the VASO press service, and go to social networks, then you can find out very interesting things. For example, the fact that the stocks, where the Il-112 is supposedly assembled, are still empty. Shop No. 22, if specifically. That workers who are unemployed and do not understand what for a penniless wage may well be called “to work” on the day off, so that by the arrival of the next commission they would portray arduous activities to create something.

Like, even on weekends the work is in full swing, what can we say about ordinary days ...

And portray. Why not play a role for a double salary?

At the same time, the “effective” are also quite normal with the “work”. Spending a weekend in Sochi is normal. Vacation twice a year in the warmth of Thailand is easy. Managers from economic management know how to work, how to relax.

One can only wonder how the IL-112 took off altogether. Especially considering that the decent part of the “effective” manages to work quite normally both in Taganrog and Voronezh, and some also work in the Moscow office of Ilyushin.

At the factory itself, ordinary hard-working engineers who are ineffective say strange things. Alexei Rogozin, who really wanted the IL-112 to fly, was able to make a completely crooked car fly up.


I had to hear very mixed opinions about Rogozin Jr. And not all with obscene escorts. And some with respect. Factory believe that Rogozin has merit, and rather big merit in the fact that the IL-112 took to the sky. Even in this form, even with such difficulties.

To my surprise, I learned that, in addition to the takeoff of the 112th, Rogozin was noted in several more projects that promised both success and profit. I wanted to build an additive technology center at the plant and start printing parts from aluminum, magnesium, titanium for aircraft right here at the assembly site. The idea was interesting, it was noted by many, but today all work has been stopped.

Paradoxically, they talk about Alexei Rogozin at a dying plant with respect. Yes, he had a certain risk, at the age of 34 he was to lead such a plant ... Though not from the street, but even in our times it is not easy.

But having been in office for two years, Alexei Dmitrievich showed himself not as a daddy’s son, but as a completely competent manager. I managed to assemble a team, as they say, to ignite the people, and as a result, 2 IL-76MDM were made, IL-112 took off ...

After Rogozin, not one of the succession of directors who succeeded each other quickly could be noted for anything like that.

Perhaps if he had another year ... But alas, история does not know the subjunctive mood. Now Rogozin is working elsewhere, and there is no reason to talk about whether he was deservedly removed from the factory or not. At VASO, they think not.

If we talk about the prospects ... But are they, prospects, to talk about them?

I believe the word of those who left the factory and remained that everything is not rosy and sad. And that a huge plant today, if anyone needs it, is for those aforementioned temporary workers who pass through the plant in turn, it is useless and pointless.


But at such a pace, “Ilyushin” will soon fly there ... into history Following “Antonov”.
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  1. 7,62h54 13 March 2020 06: 08 New
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    Rogozins are saboteurs, bark beetles on the body of the state.
    1. Aerodrome 13 March 2020 07: 02 New
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      Fans of sayings in the style of "And I said!", Wipe the keyboard
      Well, I said ... so what? someone heard threw themselves in non-slippers and recorded in the liberalists. what to take from the fans of the "pink glasses" in which they are so comfortable, do not understand and not see anything. "tie the shoelaces" and "rise from your knees" further. ten years of victories to you, breakthroughs with your decaying idol.
      1. Malyuta 13 March 2020 09: 01 New
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        Quote: Aerodrome
        threw themselves in non-slippers and recorded in the liberalists. what to take from fans of "pink glasses" in which they are so comfortable, not to understand and not to see. "tie the shoelaces" and "rise from your knees" further. ten years of victories to you, breakthroughs with your decaying idol.

        Indeed, something that wasn’t found was found on this branch, apparently they were throwing caps on other branches on the topic of shitty life in / in Ukraine, a rotting geyurope and staffhana.
        1. edasko 13 March 2020 13: 21 New
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          Here they only set cons. They have a problem - they need to drag the leader out of shit, they praise him in every way under articles on the constitution.
      2. dauria 13 March 2020 14: 32 New
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        "rise from your knees" on. ten years of victories to you, breakthroughs with your decaying idol.

        And let's shoot everyone or fire them. And pick up new ones. But where? Willy Messerschmitt between the furore of 109th and 262nd was wretchedness 210. With the wildest mistakes for any designers mistakes. So that he could just somehow fly into the fuselage, a half-meter section was added.
        Ripped off supplies to the Reich during the war. Not shot. Draw conclusions, punished the ruble (Reichsmark), tight control of acceptance.
        Kurt Tank also went on trial for his failed German Mosquito.
        Conclusions must be made. Look, where, who to what extent lounged. What is missing - brains, salaries, materials, technologies, allies. And teach-teach-learn. And then shoot wassat .
        In general, aviation is more than an airplane. Let the country think what it needs. Aircraft can also be bought in Spain. No one will sell aviation.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  2. Dimy4 13 March 2020 06: 08 New
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    [quote ...] how many Ukrainian planes serve. [/ quote]
    Amendment - Soviet.
    1. alma 13 March 2020 07: 09 New
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      The eye also hurt. Roman (author) - take a closer look!
      1. Genry 13 March 2020 10: 16 New
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        Quote: alma
        The eye also hurt. Roman (author) - take a closer look!

        Do not be so complacent ....
        The author simply copied the paragraphs from various articles and forums that were written by Ukrainian "experts." He did not even edit the contradictions that arose.
  3. Far B 13 March 2020 06: 14 New
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    The opinion of the plant employees about Rogozin Jr. seemed rather unexpected. Surely the habit of a negative attitude to all sorts of majors affected. But it is possible that Rogozin Jr. it looks so advantageous only against the background of the last. HZ. It is difficult to formulate one’s opinion, because it’s not in the subject of the word “completely”. Let's see, listen sniff, observe.
    But on account of
    Do they have prospects to talk about them?
    There are, of course, what doubts can be ?! We have ahead, it seems, another 16 years of all sorts of reforms and optimizations of the name you yourself know who! So - smile and wave! Smile and wave.
    1. carstorm 11 13 March 2020 06: 19 New
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      he is a crisis manager. very rare and complex profession. piece goods so to speak.
      1. Far B 13 March 2020 06: 25 New
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        very rare and complex profession. piece goods so to speak.
        Seriously rare ??? And then I already have two anti-crisis friends? Although I'm generally from a different field of activity? In the late 90s and zeros, this piece of goods was riveted by industrial parties because enterprises went bankrupt in series, it was possible to get crusts like the second highest, if I remember correctly, in half a year, so there was no need for a rare product. Another thing is that effective anti-crisis products are really rare and piece goods.
        1. carstorm 11 13 March 2020 06: 47 New
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          You see ... The profession requires a whole range of knowledge and skills in the field of management, economics, jurisprudence. A year of study costs about 300-500 thousand rubles in a good educational institution. + A university education of a financier, lawyer or manager is not enough. You can get specialization in crisis management at MBA courses or professional retraining courses. this is also decent money and there are very few of them. I have no idea where you got so many from. I know the best by name and the line is behind them. There are probably those who finish all sorts of distance courses or something else for three pennies, but believe me, that’s not it. surrogate.
          1. Far B 13 March 2020 06: 54 New
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            You see ... The profession requires a whole range of knowledge and skills
            Understand. And I’m not even going to argue with this, it’s true in any profession. But you said in general about crisis managers that it
            very rare and complex profession
            To which I replied to what I replied. Now you are specifying that
            I know the best by name and it’s the turn
            with which I am not going to argue either - the line is always behind the best of any profession. They would have made it clear right away that you mean the very best - I would have no reason to object.
            1. carstorm 11 13 March 2020 07: 11 New
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              You misunderstood me a little. There is a standard in this profession. and everything below him is not a crisis manager. Well, as an example, there are clear points without which it is impossible to work in this profession. He must lead the company out of crisis or bankruptcy by absolutely any means, including dismissal, reinstallation and downgrades. In this he will help such a quality as composure. for example, you can fire 20 percent of the staff and put on the street? the end justifies the means, do you think such a motto at work is possible for everyone? if a specialist does not possess such qualities as anti-conflict, the ability to inspire confidence, remain professional in any situation and abstract from unpleasant moments, he will not be able to stretch for a long time in the profession. you just draw in your head a rough profile of such a specialist and the consequences of his decisions. the amount of dirt that will be poured on it then. he essentially stands up and works against everyone. company employees will hate and be afraid of him from the first minute. the former leadership will interfere because the success of his work will mean the complete incompetence of employees in the organization of leaders. personally, I’m not capable of this and I won’t be able to, although I thought about it. but realizing what I have to do, I realized that it’s not mine. although from a financial point of view it is very attractive. but money in Durk will definitely not be useful to me)))
            2. Donbass19 13 March 2020 07: 15 New
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              Let me add that people should become leaders by calling. Like musicians or artists. After all, how many of them do not train, if there is no talent, then there are no particular successes. So it is here. Knowledge is only one of the components. God's spark must be. The only way is hard selection. I couldn’t do it - in the back row. Why was there such growth under Stalin, many not beloved? There was a selection. But only under Brezhnev everything was overgrown tightly by the "thieves" nomenclature, then the result is logical.
          2. lucul 13 March 2020 10: 06 New
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            The profession requires a whole range of knowledge and skills in the field of management, economics, jurisprudence. A year of study costs about 300-500 thousand rubles in a good educational institution.

            Nonsense - it’s impossible to teach this - you have to be born with it (like a salesman), but those who were born, they must be taught.
            And then they took as a basis a false statement that EVERYONE can be trained. And this is far from the case. This is how to make the “nerd” heavyweight boxing world champion. Or from a boxer - a nerd.
            1. carstorm 11 13 March 2020 10: 12 New
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              you can teach. it’s just that a person not ready for such a thing will break very quickly. or starts to mess and it’ll just be merged.
      2. mark1 13 March 2020 06: 29 New
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        Rogozin Sr., in fact, threw his son under the tanks. But the forces are not equal - the next competent diversion and ...
        1. vic02 13 March 2020 14: 34 New
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          another competent diversion
          In Russia, the state of the economy can now be assessed as a planned competent diversion.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Ingvar 72 13 March 2020 08: 02 New
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        Quote: carstorm 11
        he is a crisis manager. very rare and complex profession. piece goods so to speak.

        Was in the USSR such Komzin Ivan Vasilievich. That was the crisis manager! And these ..... ugh!
      5. 7,62h54 13 March 2020 08: 30 New
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        That's the point of the crisis, not anti-crisis. Their goals are different.
    2. Was mammoth 13 March 2020 09: 34 New
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      Quote: Far In
      The opinion of the plant employees about Rogozin Jr. seemed rather unexpected.

      Quote: carstorm 11
      he is a crisis manager

      Quote: carstorm 11
      The profession requires a range of knowledge and skills

      "The grenade of the wrong system!"

      The answer must be sought in our past. It is not a matter of Grudinin or Rogozin.
      How did the semi-literate "red directors" manage to raise science and industry, which crushed invincible Hitler Germany, and how, 16 years after the destructive war, were they able to send man into space?
      The date of death of an outstanding Soviet and Russian scientist, a man with a capital letter, went unnoticed. In two days he would have turned 90 years old ..
      Alferov Zh.I.
      I recommend to read:
      "Academician Alexander Rumyantsev: Why did Zhores go to the barricade?"
      https://news.mail.ru/society/40923571/?frommail=1
    3. Yarr_Arr 14 March 2020 15: 05 New
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      "... another 16 years of all sorts of reforms and optimizations of the name you yourself know who! ..."
      The people went too small:
      only a giggle can write his little thought; like "I'm not me."
      And then the theme sounds like "smile and wave."
      Oil portrait
  4. bessmertniy 13 March 2020 06: 25 New
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    There is no sadder story in the world! recourse Author, you bring us to tears with this material. crying
  5. Ross xnumx 13 March 2020 06: 32 New
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    Thank you Roman! Not everything that is disgusting and vile, but successively destroyed, becomes known. We are interested in other news and diligently solve the main problem that M.E.Saltykov-Shchedrin ridiculed:

    And, most importantly, no one is trying to understand that all these phenomena are links of one chain. Chains that consistently over the course of three decades have been destroying Russian statehood. Which strangled the people so much that it just couldn’t “multiply and multiply”. Actually, we can learn about Rogozin’s son and Grudinin’s namesake only from Roman’s articles. All channels broadcast other, more “important” news.
    But at such a pace, “Ilyushin” will soon fly there ... into history Following “Antonov”.

    Here you can inevitably be scared and ask a question:
    And at such a pace, will Russia not fly there ... into history, following the Soviet Union? belay
    1. Jager 13 March 2020 07: 15 New
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      Why planes and high-tech production of a banana-oil republic? Wild capitalism as it is. We have everywhere badly in all sectors, if the topic is not related to hydrocarbons, nuclear power plants or minerals.
      The remnants of the former Empire go to History ...
  6. Ryaruav 13 March 2020 06: 37 New
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    and at this time at the top there are other especially important concerns, a feeling where something isn’t digging deeper in the country, we’ll see about the same as you
  7. rocket757 13 March 2020 06: 57 New
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    And all of us talkative governing the aviation industry in Russia ... or rather killing it piece by piece, it is necessary .... it is necessary in short can be bit by bit, ALL !!!
    And so I want to call someone from ... but from anywhere, where such an industry is not slowing down for takeoff!
    1. Genry 13 March 2020 10: 22 New
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      Quote: rocket757
      And so I want to call someone from ... but from anywhere, where such an industry is not slowing down for takeoff!

      Yes, yes .... Boeing? There are now reductions ....
      1. rocket757 13 March 2020 10: 47 New
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        No, no, there are reductions because it is deserved ... it would be possible to take the FIRST leaders who raised the company to the heights from which its current leaders and zazhiteli so successfully failed!
  8. parusnik 13 March 2020 07: 07 New
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    Who is there, once said that Russia does not need its aviation production, it is better to buy foreign ones ... That's the result ...
    1. Genry 13 March 2020 10: 51 New
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      Quote: parusnik
      Who is there, once said that Russia does not need its aviation production, it is better to buy foreign ones ...

      So why are you shy?
      Tell me directly - Medvedev !!!
      He then called all the planes of the USSR economically unprofitable.
      1. parusnik 13 March 2020 17: 45 New
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        And not Gref ...? In principle, what's the difference ... smile
  9. alekc75 13 March 2020 07: 23 New
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    as far as I know il76 is done from scratch and upgraded at Aviastar in Ulyanovsk. where does Voronezh ??
  10. avia12005 13 March 2020 07: 44 New
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    KLA is led by Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov. No questions.
    1. asv363 13 March 2020 09: 01 New
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      Quote: avia12005
      KLA is led by Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov.

      Is not Slyusar Yu.B. runs the KLA?
      1. avia12005 13 March 2020 09: 28 New
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        Serdyukov Chairman of the Board of Directors of the UAC. https://ria.ru/20190513/1553456098.html
        1. asv363 13 March 2020 10: 07 New
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          Thank you, Yuri. Finally, I found the news on the official site of the UAC:
          https://www.uacrussia.ru/ru/press-center/news/sovet-direktorov-oak-pereizbral-predsedatelya-i-prodlil-polnomochiya-generalnogo-direktora-korporats

          So good news about the production of aircraft and helicopters in Russia should not be expected.
          1. avia12005 13 March 2020 10: 15 New
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            You still very politely noticed this ...
    2. remal 13 March 2020 12: 20 New
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      There used to be Kamovs and Miles, now Serdyukovs and Rogozins.
      1. Pavel57 13 March 2020 17: 07 New
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        Under Kamov and Mil, the grass was greener and the sky bluer.
    3. AU Ivanov. 13 March 2020 15: 20 New
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      If he lays the foundation for reforming the aviation industry, as he did in the Moscow Region, then questions will definitely not arise.
      1. avia12005 13 March 2020 16: 13 New
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        Lord, save us from Serdyukov, and we can deal with NATO ourselves.
    4. Yarr_Arr 14 March 2020 15: 08 New
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      Wikipedia to help you ...
      Check the data so that it is not misleading
  11. Whowhy 13 March 2020 08: 30 New
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    And such a mess for a long time already throughout the country .... request
  12. Igoresha 13 March 2020 08: 42 New
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    I don’t understand .. and what for the Voronezh plant 78 top managers? But there is also not a top; It was not planned to release anything to the civilian market - already as many as 3 aircraft were handed over to the military, what did this whole mob do?
    1. bar
      bar 13 March 2020 09: 39 New
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      I don’t understand .. and what for the Voronezh plant 78 top managers?

      So our universities do not prepare anyone else. Unless still lawyers and economists. Surely in those 78 were they.
      1. Igoresha 13 March 2020 09: 51 New
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        I had a chance to work with one large state monopoly organization (Ukraine), for several years everything was fine, then they brought in lawyers, for each of whose contracts they drew up, additions to the contracts of 20 pages, it’s to sign and deliver on time .. quiet horror
        1. bar
          bar 13 March 2020 14: 19 New
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          What to do, it’s necessary to add somewhere this whole younger generation of the new “intelligentsia”
    2. Alf
      Alf 13 March 2020 19: 05 New
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      Quote: Igoresha
      I don’t understand .. and what for the Voronezh plant 78 top managers?

      But what for Samara PJSC Kuznetsov deputy director of fitness?
  13. Peter is not the first 13 March 2020 08: 45 New
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    Judging by the article on how the IL-112 was designed and the IL-76 is being modernized, after the designers switch to Boeing, they will soon have more problems with the products. Maybe it was necessary to stir up the swamp on the Ile, otherwise it will soon completely overgrow.
    1. Genry 13 March 2020 10: 25 New
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      Quote: Peter is not the first
      after the transition of designers to Boeing

      World sources say that Boeing is cutting workers ....
      The author simply dragged someone else's comment.
      1. gsev 14 March 2020 16: 30 New
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        Quote: Genry
        World sources say Boeing cuts workers

        The mathematician Arnold believed that almost all the calculations on the Boeing are Russian and Chinese. Apparently this made it possible to get rid of less capable workers.
    2. gsev 14 March 2020 16: 27 New
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      Quote: Peter is not the first
      Judging by the article on how the IL-112 was designed and the IL-76 is being modernized, after the designers switch to Boeing, they will soon have even more problems with the products.

      As far as I know, some designers from the collapsed Moscow aircraft factories were lured to Germany. As far as I know, there are fewer problems in the German auto industry compared to the US auto industry. At one time, a plant for the production of pumps and drives regulating the operation of these pumps was destroyed in Moldova only in order to stimulate first-class designers to move to the West. 2 left for the USA, one to Israel, one to Germany. In these countries, everything is openwork, and in Moldova after that they began to less stimulate rallies with the slogans "Suitcase, train station, Russia."
  14. bar
    bar 13 March 2020 08: 51 New
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    Rogozin has merit, and rather big merit in the fact that IL-112 ascended into the sky. Even in this form, even with such difficulties.

    The merit of Rogozin and factory testers in the fact that this crookedly designed overweight and with a disturbed centering ugly duckling still took off, of course, is great. What not to say about its designers. For two years, the lost design school cannot be restored by any even the most ingenious manager. And this is our misfortune. And this trouble did not happen only in VASO, it happened everywhere. And it is necessary to deal with this disaster starting from school, the usual general education ...
  15. arkadiyssk 13 March 2020 08: 54 New
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    The author has some strange crying. The problem with all these Moscow factories (aviation, space) is not that the managers are bad or there is little money, but that they are 5-10 km from the city center. In these situations, there is not a single chance of survival; they are simply devoured by a piece of land for a piece of housing. And no matter what the desired IL-112 (Proton, MiG) is, the money quickly dulls the feeling of patriotism among all those involved.
    1. bar
      bar 13 March 2020 09: 42 New
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      Problem all factories in the murdered design school. Neither money nor 5 kilometers can solve this problem. This takes years of purposeful work since high school.
      1. Honest Citizen 13 March 2020 11: 41 New
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        The problem of all the plants in the killed design school.

        And not only in the design. Killed professional education, where they trained locksmiths, turners and so on. Killed completely generational change. Old men, God grant them health, simply cannot pass on their knowledge and experience - there is simply no one. And it’s all killed by salaries. The salary of the top manager and the salary of the designer are simply not comparable. So the middle age "goes into business", to private shops, whoever goes. And young people don’t go to the factories, because "I will earn more by tipping a waiter."
        But the effective ones do not see this, as well as the Putinites.
        1. bar
          bar 13 March 2020 14: 35 New
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          And it’s all killed by salaries.

          Not just salaries. Killed since the late 80s, when cool specialists from the stopped enterprises, instead of their highly skilled work, went soda pop in the streets to trade. And young people, seeing this situation of their parents, chose other "specialties". And now the children of these "other specialists" are already trying to move our science and technology. And this is not their fault, it is their misfortune. Since there was no one to teach them at universities and technical schools / colleges, and there was no one to finish and transfer experience at the enterprises themselves. And the enterprises themselves are left with a gulkin nose.
          There was a catastrophic gap in the transfer of accumulated knowledge from generation to generation. This was not even after the revolution. The then "Stalinist industrialization" was attended by a bunch of former pre-revolutionary specialists who had received a good education under "bloody tsarism". Around them, design schools were formed. All our aviation began with them and from their experience, all these Tupolevs, Polikarpovs ... And this is understandable, only 10 years have passed from the moment of revolution to the beginning of industrialization, and 2000 years have passed from the time of our "perestroika" to the mid-20s . Former experts just stupidly did not live :(
          It will be hard for our youth to start all over again from the beginning ...
  16. Wedmak 13 March 2020 08: 57 New
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    Something like this is really quite sad news about our aircraft industry. It seems that shooting is easier. Although I would not really like it because then everything will be with the planes - kirdyk.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. bar
      bar 15 March 2020 14: 03 New
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      Something like this is really quite sad news about our aircraft industry.

      If only about the aircraft industry. Unfortunately, we have everywhere like that. The failure to train qualified personnel is total in all sectors.
  17. v_bueff 13 March 2020 09: 14 New
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    This is war. Only the enemy is not named.
    1. Honest Citizen 13 March 2020 11: 42 New
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      Suggest? The enemy has been steering the country for 20 years, and its corefans are sawing budgets, with the support of a party of villains.
  18. Stirbjorn 13 March 2020 09: 18 New
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    According to Rogozin, it is debatable, to be honest - it may be better than new, but his merits are very doubtful. The fact that the IL-112 with a known overload took off is a dubious achievement. Especially in light of how his father “started” it before, without a ready engine
  19. AleBors 13 March 2020 09: 19 New
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    The sad picture. So, alas, everywhere. It is sad to see how industry collapses under the pressure of "modernization" ... Only something of the Zaputinians with the authorities is not visible. In another thread about T90 "Defeat", or whatever it was, they already called me dill and liar. Waiting for them here .. fellow
  20. Warrior MorePhoto 13 March 2020 09: 25 New
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    Quote: carstorm 11
    You see ... The profession requires a whole range of knowledge and skills in the field of management, economics, jurisprudence. A year of study costs about 300-500 thousand rubles in a good educational institution. + A university education of a financier, lawyer or manager is not enough. You can get specialization in crisis management at MBA courses or professional retraining courses. this is also decent money and there are very few of them. I have no idea where you got so many from. I know the best by name and the line is behind them. There are probably those who finish all sorts of distance courses or something else for three pennies, but believe me, that’s not it. surrogate.


    In general, you write correctly, you can’t argue. But here it turns out how to read the rules of driving and driving rules, but getting behind the wheel and driving is a little different.
  21. BAI
    BAI 13 March 2020 09: 31 New
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    Vacation twice a year in the warmth of Thailand is easy.

    So what? My wife at the school of directors 3-4 times a year goes abroad to rest. And the Narobraz administration of the district, too.

    By the way, if the IL-112 has birth injuries inherent in the design, then it is most likely cheaper to abandon it before it is too late and start a new aircraft. And it will be like Su with the reverse sweep of the wing - the money swelled up immeasurably, the result is zero.
    1. Igoresha 13 March 2020 10: 00 New
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      or the Brazilians have a license to buy a KC-390 embryo and not be bullied with domestic aviation, the patient is dead
      1. donavi49 13 March 2020 10: 12 New
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        KC 390


        Do not sell. Boeing has 49% of this venture.
        Embraer will own a 51 percent stake in the KC-390 joint venture, with Boeing owning the rest.

        He will block any attempts. Especially Embraer flies in a peak now in the stock market.
        https://ru.investing.com/equities/embraer-on-nm
        This is not the time to argue with Boeing, which is still pouring money into the company and is making efforts to promote products.
        1. Igoresha 13 March 2020 10: 17 New
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          overlaid on all sides
  22. vladimirvn 13 March 2020 09: 48 New
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    I do not care disassembly. Where is the plane? Is this a diversion? Why didn’t they shoot anyone? How about personal responsibility?
    1. donavi49 13 March 2020 10: 09 New
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      What is it?

      In general - in the process. Slowly make a new board, with minimizing the advantage. They try to level the head alignment to the permissible limits so that it can be raised not only in PR flight in a circle, but at least how to connect it to the testing and certification process.
    2. Genry 13 March 2020 10: 37 New
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      Quote: vladimirvn
      Where is the plane? Is this a diversion?

      The diversion was the collapse of the USSR. But they are trying to continue this matter with just such throwing articles.
      At VASO, the runway is currently undergoing reconstruction. The old one was completely demolished and the construction of a new one is already being completed. In April, flights should begin.
      It makes sense to build new IL-112 samples only after a sufficient amount of flight tests of the first instance.
      1. Titus 13 March 2020 15: 49 New
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        Something reminds of 1941. when all the planes were picked up in one place, do not you find that this is not very timely?
      2. Vika cnek 20 March 2020 10: 53 New
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        Only now Grudinin still does not understand this. And he continues to report everywhere that a third and even a fourth car is laid on VASO! If only a pawnshop was laid?
        1. Genry 20 March 2020 14: 31 New
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          Quote: Vika Cnek
          Grudinin still does not understand this. And he continues to report everywhere that the third and even fourth cars are laid on VASO

          What are you wrong with?
          Stamping was launched and production of units was ordered from suppliers.
          For him, the production of aircraft begins with an order to secure funding for the work.
  23. Stalnov I.P. 13 March 2020 10: 31 New
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    But what, this mess around the country, we caught up with the Kazan brigade at the factory, every Friday they went home on a beautiful bus, the bulk of the leaders were replaced by Kazan. There is a proverb: "the fish goes out of my head" there is no sense in further conversations. "
  24. CBR600 13 March 2020 10: 41 New
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    Before the death of Stalin, the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union developed a program for managing enterprises, industries, and ministries. One of the key points of that program is young cadres.
    __ Today, a young engineer at the enterprise is not needed, he is a competitor to local old-timers.
    1. AK1972 13 March 2020 12: 11 New
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      Quote: CBR600
      Today, a young engineer is not needed at the enterprise, he is a competitor to local old-timers

      I need, oh, how I need it. I say this as a local old-timer, our nomenclature is growing and with the existing staff I can hardly cope with the preparation of production. They came after universities, were even with little work experience, but they are engineers only in the diploma. They tried to teach, help, failed. I had more knowledge after school, there was no desire to study. But I heard a lot of expressions like - let the Negroes work for such a salary. So you don’t deserve this. One was seemingly active, active, you set the task, completed it quickly, even raised his salary a little (not all at once), worked for a year, quit transferring to another enterprise for a bigger salary. And here it began: wherever you go - jambs in the documentation, because I took the data for calculations from the ceiling (and therefore quickly), and there wasn’t much time to check. As a result, he was redone for half a year. And with a new job, his filthy broom was flooded.
      1. CBR600 13 March 2020 13: 13 New
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        So they took the best, not just young laughing
  25. CBR600 13 March 2020 10: 56 New
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    Ps. Engineer just burst out. Of course managers =)
  26. rruvim 13 March 2020 11: 02 New
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    As a conspiracy theorist I will tell you a terrible secret: it was Rogozin who was specially fired and Grudinin was appointed, having failed production and the entire IL office. Now the electorate, which will crawl to the polls in 2024, will know that Messrs. Rogozin from Rodina and Mr Grudinin from the Communist Party destroyed the Ilyushinsky Design Bureau. And the fact that one is a relative, the other namesake will not worry anyone. repeat Squid ...
  27. shadow 13 March 2020 11: 23 New
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    And where is this Boeing now?
  28. remal 13 March 2020 12: 12 New
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    A new broom sweeps over a new one. A lot of resentful appears.
  29. iouris 13 March 2020 12: 12 New
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    An effective manager should be able to eat and relax. They are not selected according to these criteria - these are innate qualities (genes). But work is not a wolf: it has stood and will stand.
  30. NordUral 13 March 2020 12: 19 New
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    There are words other than mat, but they must be said by the whole people. Shoot one by one.
  31. BREAKTHROUGH READY 13 March 2020 12: 42 New
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    Another nonsense of liberals. Defense enterprises are strategic regime objects; there simply cannot be such a mess.
    1. Vika cnek 20 March 2020 10: 57 New
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      He is - such a mess.!
  32. magadan72 13 March 2020 12: 46 New
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    All the same, Rogozin -jr is an excellent example of incompetent top managers managing design bureaus instead of chief designers. There will be no sense in design bureaus when finances and financiers are ahead of everything and not technology experts ...
  33. tech3030 13 March 2020 13: 01 New
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    "So many do not live at all, how many Ukrainian planes serve .; quote from the article. Not Ukrainian but Soviet, what kind of authors are these !?
  34. prior 13 March 2020 13: 06 New
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    If you want to ditch the enterprise, start optimization.
    If you want to ruin the country, start to rule the Constitution.
  35. vanavatny 13 March 2020 13: 35 New
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    without panic, this is just a fragment of a cunning plan; you yourself know who, now we’ll fix the main piece of paper and tear, well, which planes with the old constitution ...
  36. Valery Potapov 13 March 2020 16: 25 New
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    The peculiarity of our effective managers is absolute inefficiency and impunity ... Capitalism is more like feudalism.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. calm 13 March 2020 21: 30 New
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    Grudinin is not Taganrog at all, in Taganrog he worked a little more than 3 years from December 2015, and
    before that he worked in Moscow. Therefore, it has a purely indirect relation to TANTK.
  39. impostor 13 March 2020 21: 34 New
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    Vague doubts torment me. Engineering with clearance for state secrets - right at the factory gate in the arms of a Boeing? It seems to me that they’ll be received at the airport before the check-in area by “comrade *** who traveled with us”. And for things to go like in the Union, all responsible comrades like Grudinin-Rogozin must be sent to the closed design bureaus in Kolyma, and there will be a result.
    1. Zaits 14 March 2020 06: 05 New
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      So, Boeing has rather big R&D centers in Russia.
  40. Zaits 14 March 2020 05: 31 New
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    Quote: carstorm 11
    ... there are clear points without which it is impossible to work in this profession. he must lead the company out of crisis or bankruptcy by absolutely any means, including dismissal, reinstallation and downgrades. In this he will help such a quality as composure ...


    I love bedtime stories ...

    And how many companies will you name that crisis managers not only prepared for liquidation or sale, but were able to modernize production, organize sales, increase labor productivity, etc. under normal competitive conditions? And just do not refer to the reduction of reporting indicators to a more or less acceptable form before the sale.

    Dig any story of the successful withdrawal of the company from the crisis, and there will be one of two things: an infusion of state funds. dough or sale to an investor who knows exactly how to use this company. And this is not only with us. That's just with people uglier and stupid than ours, perhaps they’re not being received anywhere. And there is a reason for that, a little lower.

    Yes, one must also be able to prepare for an infusion or sale. But here communication and awareness in some issues are more important than the crap about expensive training, MBA and special qualities that you put in here. Of course, it is also necessary to study, but Pontus diplomas are not a pass to elite clubs. The same MBA course is more likely a quality educational program for already quite educated, but in a different field. I know firsthand, and more than those familiar with the MBA.

    Well, okay, profession and profession. And by the way, almost the only specialization in management, which in the professional part roughly corresponds to the target training of the specialist. And if there are problems in this profession, then this is primarily related to people. And the reason is the general perverted understanding of management in our country in general. With all the consequences.

    I had one familiar American professor-economist with a wide profile (relatively speaking). Met him in the 90s, met in the zero. And every time when it came to the Russian understanding of management and marketing, he just started to laugh. And I understand him perfectly. He earned money from us just at the graduate diplomas and simply got into a bit of a brainache to students who were simply crippled by our professors, who quickly transformed from Soviet economists and accountants into specialists in management and marketing. But you can’t correct everyone’s brains. And now these former students rule. They talk a lot about market segmentation, “product packaging”, financial flows, cost optimization, risks (comrade Taleb just crying) and other crap, and at the same time they can have a very vague idea of ​​the subject of his company. Not to mention the technical details. Well, yes, there is also a chief engineer / designer, but often with very specific ideas about economics, finances, etc.

    But try to distinguish some director of the R&D of a more or less decent western technology company from the sales director. And vice versa.
    Here you can explain why the sales director of a world-renowned technology company can understand the details and features of the equipment that he sells at the level of a fairly advanced development engineer? And these are not isolated cases, I had to wonder many times, although I understand where it all comes from. And R&D "theirs" is much more than surprising. Here it is a matter of attitude to people and their knowledge.

    Here we like to complain that there are not enough qualified engineers, and even those that are, strive to escape. But managers are already a dime a dozen, and something isn’t particularly running anywhere. Can you answer why so? And then I can tell you.

    Teaching an engineer is expensive. Much more expensive than our average manager, fin. analytics, etc. .. To train an engineer you need an expensive mat. base. And not even so much directly for the student as to maintain the level of the profession. And the most unpleasant, after 5 years of college, only semi-finished product is obtained. An engineer capable of more or less independent work. he will be able to become another years after 5..7. A competent presenter - 10..15 years of work after receiving a diploma. If he will try hard, and God did not deprive. And if he digs heavily under his feet, then in 15 years he can reach the level of a project manager, but for this it will take a lot more, and not only technical knowledge, skills. And these same people often for 20 years put together teams that can work at a very good level. And such teams can be very expensive. Already very high associated costs.

    And then a boy comes with a fresh MBA diploma on top of a lawyer, economist, art historian, journalist or hell knows what else, and cheerfully optimizes such a team for the right indicators. The indicators with this approach are not for long, but optimized people sometimes disappear forever, and replacing them with others can be extremely difficult, and sometimes impossible. And from the point of view of Russian management, this is normal. These are our things.
  41. Observer2014 14 March 2020 17: 24 New
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    But at such a pace, “Ilyushin” will soon fly there ... into history Following “Antonov”.
    This is the worst thing. Respect to the author of the article hi