100 km and more. New shells are created for Russian self-propelled guns

SPGs 2S35 "Coalition-SV" and 2S19 "Msta-S" at the parade. Photo Kremlin.ru

As it became known, Russian industry is working to create promising ultra-long-range artillery systems. Their basis will be the latest 2S35 Coalition-SV self-propelled gun, and the required characteristics will be provided with special shells. According to the domestic press, new types of ammunition will be able to hit targets at ranges of more than 100 km.

Special shells

Izvestia reported on work on creating new artillery ammunition on March 5, citing unnamed sources in the defense industry. Some technical details and main features of the projects are given. At the same time, the completion dates and the receipt of shells for service are not specified.

It is alleged that the industry is developing several shells of extended range with different features. While it is a question of design work, but soon it is planned to conduct the first tests of experimental products.

New shells are carried out in caliber 152 mm, which will allow them to be used together with modern artillery pieces. They will be able to use promising self-propelled guns 2S35 “Coalition-SV”, serial self-propelled guns 2S19 “Msta-S” and towed guns 2A65 “Msta-B”. It is alleged that due to such ammunition the firing range will be increased to 100 km or more.

For comparison, the maximum tabular firing range 2C19, depending on the type of shot, reaches 25-30 km. For 2C35, approximately twice as large numbers were called. The possibility of reaching the level of 70-80 km was also mentioned.

Technical details

Some technical information is provided. One of the ultra-long-range shot projects involves the creation of a telescopic munition with a ramjet engine. Moreover, such a product in its design as a whole does not meet the generally accepted definition of a telescopic projectile.

In the future, this technique will have to master new ammunition. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

Telescopic, i.e. the ammunition body is sliding - during flight it must open and increase its size. A ramjet is placed in such a case. The telescopic design of the munition allows you to improve the basic characteristics of the engine in comparison with other layouts, which improves flight performance. To ensure the required accuracy, the projectile is equipped with an unnamed type control system.

How other ultra-long-range shells are built and look is not reported. It can be assumed that several designs are being worked out at once, which allow one or another advantage to be obtained. How soon such details of the project become known is unknown.

Against the background of analogues

It is known that several foreign countries are also working on the issue of increasing the range of barrel artillery systems. Various ideas and solutions are proposed and tested in practice, which ensure the desired growth of characteristics. Through the use of several approaches, it has already been possible to exceed a range of 70 km, and in the near future shooting at 100 km is expected.

So, in the USA, the towed and self-propelled guns of the ERCA family (Extended Range Cannon Artillery) are successfully tested. In this project, an increase in firing range is provided by an increase in barrel length and the use of an active-rocket projectile. ERCA ammunition is compatible with existing self-propelled guns of the M109 family. In their case, a significant increase in range is also achieved.

Different countries are developing various designs of promising ammunition that can contribute to increasing the firing range. First of all, a search is being made for more advanced designs of an active rocket. Ammunition of the "traditional" type and equipped with ramjet are offered. A part of such products has already been brought to testing and confirms the calculated characteristics.

Transport and loading machine 2F66-1 for self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV". In the future, she will have to transport new types of shots. Photo Central Research Institute "Petrel" / burevestnik.com

It is expected that over the next few years, new projects will increase the characteristics of the barrel artillery. So, the U.S. Army should get a new modification of the M109 self-propelled guns with a firing range of 40 km, and in the future, fundamentally new systems are expected to hit targets 80-100 km or further.

Domestic specifics

According to recent reports, Russian and foreign gunsmiths use different approaches. In foreign projects, maximum characteristics are planned to be obtained due to the special development of a full-fledged artillery complex, including a new type of gun and shell. Promising Russian projects include the use of ready-made guns, possibly with minimal modifications, and fundamentally new ammunition.

Both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses, but allow you to get the desired results. The Russian approach has an important advantage in the form of the absence of the need to develop a new gun and / or self-propelled gun. A promising projectile is created taking into account the requirements of existing weapons. This can lead to some difficulties or limitations, but overall provides significant savings in design, production and operation.

Obvious advantages

The complex in the form of an existing weapon, initially capable of using a wide range of 152 mm ammunition for various purposes, and a new ultra-long-range projectile should show high combat qualities and flexibility in solving all basic problems. He must maintain the positive features of artillery systems and gain new opportunities due to increased firing range.

The replenishment of the Msta or Coalition-SV ammunition with a new ultra-long-range projectile will lead to an obvious increase in their combat potential. Divisional artillery will be able to hit targets at a greater depth of the enemy’s defense or work from a greater distance from the line of contact, outside the zone of responsibility of enemy guns. In this regard, modernized self-propelled guns will be a good addition to operational-tactical missile systems.

Experienced self-propelled guns XM1299 American design. High range characteristics are provided by a long barrel and a new projectile. Photo US Army

Loss in the power of ammunition at the same time compensate for other advantages. Despite a significant increase in range, the new projectile will be much cheaper than a rocket, the deployment of artillery at a position will still be quick, and the flight time of the projectile will remain at the required level. In addition, the enemy will not be able to repel the strike, intercepting flying projectiles - the technology required for this is not yet available.

Timing issue

According to the latest news, domestic projects of ultra-long-range artillery shells are still in their early stages, but in the near future it is expected to transfer prototypes for testing. Checking and comparing several designs, as well as selecting and fine-tuning the most successful one, will take some time. Probably, this process will stretch for several years.

It can be assumed that in the absence of serious difficulties, the new ammunition will reach adoption by the middle of the decade. By this time, army artillery will be ready to accept and use them.

The systems of the Msta family are already in service. Supplementing their ammunition nomenclature is unlikely to be difficult and time consuming. In fact, the use of new shells will require only some refinement of the fire control system. After such an upgrade, towed and self-propelled guns will be able to use the potential of fundamentally new ammunition.

Not so long ago, the readiness of a new batch of self-propelled guns 2S35 "Coalition-SV", intended for military trials, was reported. These events will last until 2022, after which it is expected to launch mass production. By the mid-twenties, the army will receive sufficient quantities of new equipment. Apparently, ensuring the compatibility of 2C35 and new ammunition will also not be particularly difficult and will not slow down the introduction of new technologies.

Thus, in the future, the Russian army will be able to get not only promising self-propelled artillery mounts with modern weapons and equipment, but also ammunition with enhanced characteristics. The introduction of all these products will be carried out gradually and over time, but the outcome of such measures is already clear. However, to obtain the desired results, it is necessary to carry out all the required stages of work. So far, the immediate plans of the industry are the first tests, which means that much remains to be done.

Comments

[Pivot]

I would be glad if our artillery received such shells, and even high-precision ones.

[kind]

Shells are created for specific tasks. At such a range, the ammunition must be adjustable. It will be useful for destroying ammunition depots in tactical depth.

[riwas]

According to recent reports, Russian and foreign gunsmiths use different approaches. In foreign projects, maximum characteristics are planned to be obtained through the special development of a full-fledged artillery complex, including a new type of gun and shell.

I think that we need to develop both approaches. Not so much money is needed.

[riwas]

An interesting article on increasing the firing range due to multiple-action guns.
http://ivanstrezhnev.appspot.com/

[Lelik76]

He served on 2C5, they gave us data on the maximum range with an active-missile projectile of 32 km. 2С19, in principle, I think about the same thing, I observed their firing during the exercises, as their division was in a neighboring position. We really shot at 12 km and pulled out the gun constantly from the charge.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Lelik76

2C19, in principle, I think about the same

They do not have active reactive.
Only long-range shells with a bottom gas generator
Soviet gunners decided not to fool around

[Lelik76]

You want to say that in 2C5 it is possible and in 2C19 it is impossible to push the same shells? On 2C5 it’s possible, I was so taught in the army when I served on them. I won’t argue about 2C19 because I don’t know for sure.

[Private-K]

Quote: Lelik76

You want to say that in 2C5 it is possible and in 2C19 it is impossible to push the same shells? On 2C5 it’s possible, I was so taught in the army when I served on them. I won’t argue about 2C19 because I don’t know for sure.

It is impossible. For 2C5 created a special line of shells.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Lelik76

You want to say that in 2C5 it is possible and in 2C19 it is impossible to push the same shells?

Yes.
2C19 can use 2C3 shells. For example, OF45

[Lelik76]

It’s clear that I didn’t deeply deal with this issue, just about the technology on which they served us, they hammered into the head all the characteristics and stuff. But somehow I was not interested in this issue later. After the army, I have been working in aviation for 25 years (now in the design bureau) and I have a carriage and a small cart in this area. Although at work I came across artillery, only 30 mm caliber, but the rate of fire is impressive. But 2 years in the sun still did not go in vain :-)

[Amateur]

Probably they can shoot. But get in? 30 km is a line of sight from a height of 30 meters (for perfectly smooth land), i.e. the ability to adjust hits from the place of the shot. 100 km will require external target designation. The advantage of an artillery shell over a rocket of equal combat effectiveness is relative cheapness. To fuss for the dubious results?
Gunners - explain.

[g1washntwn]

Today the accuracy of GPS and Glonass is 2-4 m, with the help of PZ-90.11 it is planned to increase the accuracy to 30 cm.

[Amateur]

Today the accuracy of GPS and Glonass is 2-4 m, with the help of PZ-90.11 it is planned to increase the accuracy to 30 cm.

The LRLAP guided projectile consists of the projectile itself and the engine compartment. The length of the projectile is 2,24 m, the mass is 102 kg, the mass of the explosive is 11 kg. In the bow of the projectile there are 4 control wings, in the tail of the 8-blade stabilizer. Inertial projectile control system using GPS. The CWO of the projectile is 20–50 m. ... the cost of such a projectile, taking into account the specific share of development costs, reaches 800 thousand dollars.

(Wiki)
They shot a couple of days and the state debt doubled.

[Den717]

Quote: Amateur

They shot a couple of days and the state debt doubled.

Precision shells are not fired for "a couple of days". They shoot only one piece. Because the probability of hitting a point target for BTC today is 0,8-0,9. "A couple of days" ordinary art shoots at areal targets. For example: the consumption rate for the suppression of an unobserved battery of towed guns for arty 152-203 mm is 180 shells. Krasnopolski would take 3-4 maximum. I don't think that the artillery battery should be extinguished with the use of military-technical cooperation, but control points, communication centers and other point targets are quite suitable.

[Zaurbek]

Why explain? There are coordinates of the target - you shoot, no you don’t shoot. And for coordinates there is an art. intelligence service.

[bessmertniy]

If there is a real opportunity for 100 kilometers to hit enemy targets accurately, then it’s a sin not to release such shells and not to improve their shooting. We are following the right path, comrades! Believe your commanders.

[Amateur]

If there is a real opportunity for 100 kilometers to hit enemy targets accurately,

All respected commentators, as if by agreement, bypass the question: how to get in and how to adjust the fire. GPS and others like it are suitable in peacetime for shooting at stationary targets. So gentlemen, I leave my question to the artillerymen in force. Well, "wise remarks like

Why explain? There are coordinates of the target - you shoot, no you don’t shoot. And for coordinates there is an art. intelligence service.

please do not write anymore.

[Lelik76]

We fired at Dauria for the hills for 12 km and naturally didn’t see anything, only according to the gunners we adjusted the fire. On average, after my calculations (how can I not praise myself :-)) for the first sighting there, various shortcomings or to the left or right were within 50-200 m (I still don’t know what the gunners put on the guns, I think my data). Well, and then when the battery (better division) fugitive begins to throw, I think there accuracy is not particularly needed. Without a gunner (you can take a drone), I think I can only hit there with guided projectiles (any television at least). The cost of such a projectile is accordingly different. The only unification of the 1st stage (charge) will throw this thing at its 27 km maximum, and then in any case the projectile itself will work (I think it will still be more a rocket than just the projectile I came across). Well, the unification of the existing equipment is also not necessary, you do not need to create anything new, to buy. And well, even if it is a vigorous tactical shell, then the game can and is worth the candle. How many carriers immediately appear. At least 2C5 provides for the possibility of such a gasp, but they did not give us :-)

[Lopatov]

Quote: Amateur

Probably they can shoot. But get in?

But this is a problem.
No, you can make a "hitting shell", but it will be more expensive than a rocket

Quote: Amateur

100 km will require external target designation.

Artillery has long required external target designation at any firing range, and the topic is more or less worked out.

Quote: Amateur

ability to adjust hits

The counter-battery radar does an excellent job with this kind of adjustment. Well, and, accordingly, "ballistic" stations such as the one located on the 2S35

Well, plus UAV and reconnaissance.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Amateur

100 km will require external target designation.

or UAV-spotter (including with laser illumination of targets), or shells with GPS-guidance.

Quote: Amateur

The advantage of an artillery shell over a rocket of equal combat effectiveness is relative cheapness

here it is debatable.
Firstly, both the projectile and the artillery gun experience significantly greater loads when fired. Those. the gun itself is more expensive (high-quality steel, thick walls, heat treatment, coating of the barrel bore), and a shell filled with electronics that can withstand overloads of 1000g is not so cheap
PU rockets are primitive - just a pipe with a spiral guide. The rocket starts with relatively small overloads, and therefore there is no need for an ultra-expensive elemental base of electronic devices.
The rocket is easier to stabilize on the trajectory and directs at the target

[Nikolaevich I]

Nuuuuu .....! What is there to say? As Comrade Saakhov: "All this is correct and true ... but you can look at it from another point of view!" ... And why and for what artillery needs artillery shells with the "range" of St. 100 km? As, once, they said: "To God, God; to Caesar, Caesar!" Artillery shows its effectiveness at certain distances ... well, let it go! Artillery is a weapon of the battlefield ... a tactical weapon of war! And on the "distant outskirts" ... Duc, for this tactical missile systems have been invented ... and OTP, by the way, is ... Not invented today! So why make life difficult for gunners? As before, they simply lived (!) ... there was regimental artillery, divisional, corps artillery ... so why also come up with "strategic" or "operational-tactical" artillery? Sho ... "money is harnessing the thigh" and nowhere to put them? Well, after all, you can add to the existing cannon artillery systems ... for example, special MLRS with corrected, guided missiles with a range of 100-120 km or a little more ...! You can, if you wish, and with armor (like "Solntsepёk" and others ...) bungle! Controlled (adjustable) PCs will be easier to develop, faster ... their effectiveness may be higher (more powerful warheads ...), BC - with me ... "I carry everything with me" in a "package"; ... , in the "guides"! Of course, they will try to argue that artillery pieces are more "multifunctional"! That is, you want a cheap "free-falling" projectile ... you want, a more expensive corrected artillery projectile with solid propellant rocket engines; but you want a super expensive one with a ramjet engine .... (!), And all the "pleasure" from one weapon! Yes, here's a "catch" (!) ... dreaming is not harmful, but in real life it does not always happen! There is no “proof”, as on Kostya Saprykin, that “expensive” shells will be at the right time, in the right place, at the right weapon! And they say that "the road is a spoon for dinner"! The shopping mall is always on the "account and on the mind"! And those responsible can be appointed! And you will have to worry less that "they are not fighting in a single-breasted one now ..."! And that is (there was), for example, a good howitzer "PAT", but rejected .. they say, the range is too small! We need to take an example from NATO (!) ... they have gun barrels in how many calibers are long! Range ... go crazy! And why these show-offs, if side by side in one organizational structure, there will be a special multi-barreled rocket launcher like (!) MLRS with guided (adjustable) ... or simply, with INS, but long-range missiles? Let the rockets be 2-stage (like the "Pantsir", "Hermes" missiles ...) ... after the separation of the rocket engine, the ballistics of the projectile is close to the ballistics of the feathered artillery shell ... it is possible to use the principle of a turbojet projectile with an engine compartment. ..The installations are equipped with the appropriate ACS (BIUS) ... What else is needed for "the happiness of an artilleryman"?

[fk7777777]

And we don’t touch the starship chef from the garage yet, right?

[ser56]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

And why these show-offs, if side by side in one

grandmothers sawing on research and development ...
it’s a no brainer that the projectile passes through the barrel, therefore it will be more expensive (electronics requirements due to acceleration), with a lower explosive content (thicker walls and smaller dimensions) - than a MLRS rocket

[Private-K]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Artillery - weapons battlefield ... tactical combat weapon!

Exactly.
Up to 80-90% of the firing tasks of field artillery (122 mm, 152-155 mm) are stacked at distances of up to 20-25 km. And there are a lot of such fire tasks; the solution of which (effective and timely) will require many tools. That is, the guns will therefore be busy solving problems at ranges up to 25 km, developing their own resources on them. And at longer ranges, work is foreseen, first of all, long-range MLRS! A 600-kg semi-NURS (adjustable NURS) fired from a multiple rocket launcher with the same control system as the shell from the gun will deliver to the enemy a much more significant warhead, including and cassette, and with SPBE, and thermobaric ... than 152 mm.

[rocket757]

Obvious advantages

While the ratio PRICE - EFFICIENCY of shells will be in the black, they will be developed and applied!
Everything is logical, everything is clear.

[novel66]

engine, control system ... to deliver to the target a charge of forty

[rocket757]

It’s possible to get a hit, the question is, at what price?
While developing and doing, those who can afford it, definitely find the point.

[demiurg]

Yes of course. Instead of 42kg of cast iron and explosives, a kilogram of 10-15 maximum flies to the target. Plus a drop in speed. The target shifted 10 meters to the side, and even if it is an armored personnel carrier, he does not give a damn about the fragments.

Well, the price of the rocket in the case, which must withstand overload when fired. Surely cheaper shots will come out for the Zamvoltovsky gun, where the projectile costs more than a tomahawk?

[rocket757]

Quote: demiurg

Instead of 42kg of cast iron and explosives, a kilogram of 10-15 maximum flies to the target.

Everything is correct, even 1 kg of TNT, right on target, the business will do a lot, as it should. Even if half a ton of explosives, but far past .... a weak option.

Quote: demiurg

Well, the price of the rocket in the hull,

There are missiles with good range and accuracy, but along with the installation it is still more expensive than the artillery version and there are other nuances! Besides, to shoot down a projectile is not realistic yet.
The military wants a lot, but there are economists with them ... so everything is calculated.

[demiurg]

That's always the case. We have weapons and we are on the alert. And the enemy is fighting the spears and thumping soundly.
The projectile flies 100km for a minute and a half or two. If there are counter-battery radars, then such small shells do not even need to be shot down. It’s easier to move aside 100 meters, time allows. And any bunker can easily survive the hit of an 85mm shell.
A projectile is easier to shoot down than a missile. The planes for maneuvering are scanty. Mortar mines are already being knocked down almost from a smartphone with small things.

[rocket757]

All the same, the new has not yet been tested in the confrontation of equally armed opponents, who are in equal conditions ....
It is not verified how it will turn out when the enemy is strong and CAN RESPOND COMPLETELY.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

OKA ratio PRICE - EFFICIENCY of shells will be in the black,

this is not possible, given the cost of the gun ... Especially if you count on the delivered weight of the explosive to the target ...

[rocket757]

You can't just calculate, there is "other accounting".
The army, of course, is a conservative community, but hold on to what is unjustifiably expensive and not effective, for example, they will not be allowed indefinitely ...
Talk that the guns, as a form of armament, are outdated, did not start right now, a little earlier ... they are still going on and will not be known for how long.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

You can't just calculate, there is "other accounting".

bookkeeping is always one ...
RZSO projectile with a caliber of 122 mm (Grad - weight: projectile 66, BB - 6,4 kg)
152 shell - 43,5 5.8 BB kg ...

[rocket757]

It is more like "expansion geometry". She considers bookkeeping in a completely different way.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

It is more like "expansion geometry".

let it be so, but it’s impossible to make a shell for an ordinary gun, and even a long-barrel (more than 50 cal) thin-walled, like a RZSO projectile, so the payload mass will decrease, both absolutely (compared to a conventional projectile), and relative to the RZSO ...
In this case, the control system will be more expensive - the question is WHY? In addition to dibs cut?
Shirokorad well described these amusements with polygon shells in the 30s, lengthening of 3dm of divisional guns and Kucherevsky’s guns - my opinion is from the same opera ...

[rocket757]

Pointless argument.
There are products, products are used for their intended purpose, the product confirms its characteristics ... mass production reduces the price of the product, if you need to produce everything you need in serial.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

Pointless argument.

philosophical ... do you need to do stupid things ...

[rocket757]

No, no, if I knew / remember something about rockets, then "God of War" is not my topic.
To do a simple open source review ... there are many inaccuracies.
That's the state of our electronics, I can judge even then within the limits of my competence .... but it will be REAL.
I suppose that while a cardinal replacement of one by another does not occur anywhere, although a lot of fundamentally new is coming into the troops.
It’s like talking about a new technological structure, there is a lot of noise, there’s just a few conversations about what it is and what it is eaten with ... well, they’ve spread the philosophy around!

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

I suppose that while a cardinal replacement of one by another does not occur anywhere, although a lot of fundamentally new is coming into the troops.

notice how the saga for the Zumwold ended ... in this case, is there a difference in essence?

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

notice how the saga for the Zumwold ended ... in this case, is there a difference in essence?

There, and on the "iron" itself, the disagreements are not small ... the general dissatisfaction with the project and the costs of it simply came to the shells. But again, these are only general assumptions, all the vicissitudes of the process were not brought to the court of the audience.
I think our responsible, they’ll decide what they’ll realize.

[silver_roman]

all right, we need new shells that have no analogues in the world. 100 pieces must be. for the landfill in front of the supreme. Krasnopoli is already full in the army. The whole army is made up of prototypes.

[fk7777777]

In fact, nuclear war, for 100 km, who guarantees that the target is hit and hit, for example, and what ?, only a nuclear charge will give 100% confidence. Well, they used to make fun of 90 km before, at the kirzavod in St. Petersburg they did these fluffs, and nothing and shells are almost the same system, the news is so-so, about nothing.

[Bagatur]

What about the price of the shell?

[Yrec]

The power of such a projectile will be scanty, since the weight of the projectile being thrown will be comparable to the weight of the explosive of a 57-mm projectile, the rest of the weight will go to the engine and fuel. It will be possible to shoot such a projectile only at FIXED objects, since a flight of 100 km will take more than 10 minutes. The cost of firing such a projectile will be at least comparable to the cost of launching a Smerch rocket divided by the number of homing ammunition in the cassette. It will be very easy to shoot down such a projectile of a military missile defense / air defense system, since it flies along a simple ballistic trajectory, and at its apogee reaches the stratosphere. Well, for what purpose should such a projectile be used?

[Livonetc]

"Self-propelled 155-mm howitzer Denel G6"
"when firing from the G6-52 installation with a chamber volume of 25 liters and the maximum possible powder charge, he demonstrated an absolute record of the firing range - 76280 meters.
ammunition RDM M9703 V-LAP "
Filling
8,3 kg TNT

[Lopatov]

Quote: Livonetc

ammunition RDM M9703 V-LAP "

Ungovernable.
Imagine how many are needed for. for example, enemy radar damage. And it turns out that a pair of TRK missiles is cheaper

Quote: Livonetc

Filling
8,3 kg TNT

American HE Shell M795, 23.8 pounds TNT
US PF M549 active rocket, 15 pounds TNT
So it goes...

[chenia]

Make a range of up to 35 km for firing with a conventional projectile with acceptable dispersion (depth of the task of the day of the division with a margin). Up to 45-50 km AR is adjustable. Leave the rest to rocket artillery. To hit shells in the center of the operational zone is a perversion.

[ser56]

Quote: chenia

To hit shells in the center of the operational zone is a perversion.

Americans are sawing, Germans, Dutch, Swedes - and niches are worse?

[Andrey77]

Another cut. Announce the amount and why such a projectile is needed.

[123456789]

Quote: Yrec

Well, for what purpose should such a shell be used?

And calibers on barns in Syria?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: 123456789

And calibers on barns in Syria?

Gauges ..... Well, Duc is a workout ... so that in the future there is a knack!

[Yrec]

Quote: Livonetc

"Self-propelled 155-mm howitzer Denel G6"
"when firing from the G6-52 installation with a chamber volume of 25 liters and the maximum possible powder charge, he demonstrated an absolute record of the firing range - 76280 meters.
ammunition RDM M9703 V-LAP "
Filling
8,3 kg TNT

I don’t know who to believe directly . Our standard 152mm OFS ZOF45 with a weight of 43,56 kg has an explosive charge of 7,65 kg. This is with a maximum distance of 24,5 km and an initial speed of 810 m / s. What kind of mass-dimensional characteristics of the projectile and TTX guns should be in order to give out three times the long range and, moreover, with more explosives? I would like to look at the price tag of such a shell and compare it with ZOF45.

[Andrey77]

Especially on the price tag! We will not stand for the price?

[L-39NG]

If I am not mistaken, the United States has already fired test shots from the new gun or howitzer XM1299. Caliber 155 mm. Barrel - 58 calibers. They write that they hit a "point" target at a distance of 70+ km. I did not dig deeper, tk. I'm interested in hitting accuracy at such distances. There you need either Global Navigation, or a gunner, somewhere, not very far from the target. In the event of a conflict not "with the Papuans," but with a technically advanced enemy, both of these components are under attack. Global navigation can either be jammed, in a wide area from the object, or the accuracy of the navigation systems setting over the protected area can be changed. And the gunners are detected by passive interception and surveillance. Important objects will be guarded, and the concentration of troops will, rather, be dispersed over large areas - all with motors, however, when necessary, they will have time to pull up. And just shooting in areas is also not it. Of course - intelligence, and anti-intelligence is not what it used to be.

[Lontus]

Already a hundred times discussed here

1. The long-range unguided projectile is extremely inaccurate and pointless.
2. A guided missile is more expensive and carries a smaller warhead than a guided missile.

Long-range shells are stupid and / or drank.

[L-39NG]

In 152 and 155, you can shove the nuclear one too, but they are not stamped on the conveyor.

[Lontus]

Quote: L-39NG

In 152 and 155, you can shove the nuclear one too, but they are not stamped on the conveyor.

It is possible, but why, if it is easier and cheaper to cram into SD?

[Undecim]

The author can be recognized by the title of the article. If the heading contains future tense verbs like "will be created", "will be built" and others "will be", it means that Ryabov is driving a drop of information "from an unnamed source" about that "Julitta is going when that will be" through the water tank.

[Operator]

For the first time I didn’t understand anything from Cyril’s text - what is "telescopic shells that move apart in flight, equipped with a ramjet engine" and why should they move apart in flight?

[Bobrick]

It seems that in direct-flow engines there is an element that is a long pipe after the combustion chamber (or swirlers, rather) and to the actual jet nozzle in which the flow parameters are stabilized (mainly) along the diameter of the flow part and afterburning of fuel.

It seems that this telescopic effect is needed to ensure good ramjet operation while reducing ammunition dimensions.

[Operator]

In the well-known designs of active rockets equipped with ramjet, nothing is pushed apart and not put forward.

There are projects of active shells with a retractable aerodynamic needle to increase the ballistic coefficient, but in their design there is no ramjet that would obscure the shock wave from the needle.

[Bobrick]

In the design of liquid-propellant ramjet engines and in jet engines with an afterburner, such an element is present, it also does not extend anywhere, but is necessary for the "even" outflow of the jet (apparently all for the sake of using liquid fuel, which has more energy).

[Operator]

The ramjet consists of an air intake, a diffuser, a combustion chamber and a jet nozzle.

In the ARS, a circular air intake surrounds the diffuser - the warhead of the projectile. The combustion chamber is a conventional rocket engine with a slit charge of solid fuel, which does not include an oxidizing agent (its role is played by air), and a Laval nozzle. The charge fills the entire volume of the combustion chamber - the warhead in the folded state cannot fit there.

Therefore, the question of the telescopic design of the projectile remains.

[L-39NG]

There is such a Cuban magazine, "verde olivo", there was a caricature a long time ago, an officer instructs his subordinates, "this is a new atomic grenade, you need to throw it as far as possible towards the enemy. After the throw, there will be no what live. Everyone will receive three such grenades. "

[Klingon]

Quote: Amateur

Probably they can shoot. But get in? 30 km is a line of sight from a height of 30 meters (for perfectly smooth land), i.e. the ability to adjust hits from the place of the shot. 100 km will require external target designation. The advantage of an artillery shell over a rocket of equal combat effectiveness is relative cheapness. To fuss for the dubious results?
Gunners - explain.

there are drones now, from them everything is clearly visible and even in different wave ranges, and you can make corrections at least during the day, even at night

[Bobrick]

Let me ask you a question: why such a concept can not be implemented for rockets MLRS?
Here, there is less acceleration in the barrel (there is no need to develop electronic circuits and ramjet components that can withstand overload during acceleration in the barrel), and the shape of the projectile is aerodynamic, and at the same time, a monetary gain is possible due to the low cost of the installation, the adaptability of production to such products, etc. P.

[Maxim_ok]

“The new shells are made in 152 mm caliber, which will make it possible to use them together with modern artillery pieces. They can be used by the promising 2S35 "Coalition-SV" self-propelled guns, the 2S19 "Msta-S" serial self-propelled guns and the 2A65 "Msta-B" towed guns. It is argued that due to such ammunition, the firing range will be increased to 100 km or more "

- It's absolutely impossible.