The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank will be shown for the first time at the Victory Parade in Moscow

The Russian T-90M "Breakthrough" tank will be shown for the first time to the general public at the Victory Parade, which will be held on May 9, 2020 on Moscow Red Square. This was reported by TASS with reference to a source in the military-industrial complex.

According to the source Tanks T-90M "Breakthrough" will participate in the Victory Parade. He recalled that the state tests of the tank have already been completed and in the near future the tanks will begin to enter the Russian army.

T-90M tanks this year will be presented for the first time at the Victory Parade in a column of military equipment

- the agency leads the words of the source.

In mid-February of this year, the head of Uralvagonzavod Alexander Potapov confirmed that the supply of T-90M tanks would begin in 2020, but refused to answer the question about the number of tanks that the Ground Forces would receive under the contract, stating that this information was not for wide distribution.

Earlier it was reported that the tests of the newest Russian tank T-90M "Breakthrough" were successfully completed, the timing and volume of serial deliveries of tanks to the troops will be determined by the Ministry of Defense. It is also known that funds for the purchase of T-90M tanks have already been allocated, the delivery of serial vehicles is expected in 2020.

Last year, the media repeatedly flashed information that the first batch of incoming T-90M weapons could be at least a battalion set.

The T-90М tank was developed as part of the Breakthrough-3 development work and is a deep modernization of the T-90 with increased combat and operational characteristics.

In the course of modernization, a new turret module with a 90-mm gun of increased survivability and accuracy was installed on the T-125M. A remote-controlled machine gun installation caliber 12,7-mm is installed on the turret. In addition, the new tank is equipped with a highly automated digital fire control system that provides search, recognition, auto-tracking and hitting targets.

Comments

[Aerodrome]

The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank will be shown for the first time at the Victory Parade in Moscow
Today, 14: 32

T72:? Wow, it's really not funny, who will see 72 .. models .. "armature" already ... in the series.

[Maz]

And how is the t90m different from the t90? There is data on it
TTX in the internet?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Maz

And how is the t90m different from the t90?

1. The tower. A part of the ammunition stow has been moved to the aft niche, the Kalina fire control system has been installed, the installation of the 2A82-1M gun has been announced
2. The reservation scheme has been changed. The relict dynamic protection and anti-fragmentation lining are installed.
3. air conditioning and APU installed
4. announced the installation of GOP MP (control levers replaced by a helm of the BMP-3 type)

[Mazuta]

And "announced", how's that? Is it a dream or has it already been set?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Mazuta

And "announced", how's that?

then they promised to deliver

Quote: Mazuta

Are these dreams or have they already been set?

we learn this by seeing photos of the aircraft transferred to the aircraft.
Although, from all of the above, the confusion is really only on the cannon. They can deliver from Almaty, or maybe, due to cheapness, leave 2A46

[Seregarodionov]

and m and w forgot again?

[svp67]

Quote: Maz

And how is the t90m different from the t90? There is data on it
TTX in the internet?

Full ...

Here is its export version run in the desert of Kuwait

Well, here a little bit, we already have

[Fidel]

https://vpk.name/library/f/mango.html

The Mango projectile is widespread in the Russian army, and was also exported complete with Russian and Ukrainian T-80U / T-80UD and T-90 tanks supplied abroad in recent decades.


Features:

The length of the active part of the projectile - 574 mm
The weight of the active part without a master is 4850 g.
The standard penetration depth from 2000 m is normal 900 mm, at an angle of 60 ° - 560 mm
The average penetration depth from 2000 m along the normal is 1000 mm of steel.

Mr. Alconafter, as always, is lying about the characteristics of domestic armored vehicles and ammunition. In the direction of belittling the real characteristics. I noticed this for a long time behind this strip. Also with regards to the guided missile and its characteristics. This is also the case for the active defense of the T-90M, which supposedly "will not be".
But the "alleged" and "possible" devices for armored vehicles of "partners" are presented as almost serial. Disgusting tipok.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Aerodrome

The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank will be shown for the first time at the Victory Parade in Moscow
Today, 14: 32

T72:? Wow, it's really not funny, who will see 72 .. models .. "armature" already ... in the series.

Some kind of incomprehensible set of letters, signs and symbols. Is it not destiny to write articulately? Or, if only in the first rows to rumble on the keyboard? Anyway, they won't give you a gold champion medal for "first place" in the comments.

[1976AG]

Well, like the T-72 and T-90M are very different. If you look, you will see the differences.

[210ox]

I understand that the ammunition was carried out.

[svp67]

Quote: 210ox

I understand that the ammunition was carried out.

Not mechanized ... previously placed shells and charges were removed from the case.
But I can assume that with the next modernization there may appear a completely "normal" suspended MZ. This is the favorite thing of our UVZ, to issue upgrades "an hour by a teaspoon"

[Mazuta]

Do you think "Zabashny MZ" is a panacea ?!
And if in a year, two or three, after the next sep. v ... have to increase the size of the BPS?
The favorite thing of our UVZ is to produce products for which money is paid ...
Don't you think that the "speed of modernization" depends not only on UVZ ?!
(I did not think that I would have to sign up for lawyers)

[svp67]

Quote: Mazuta

And if in a year, two or three, after the next sep. v ... have to increase the size of the BPS?

The "suspended MZ" has no problems with the long shells

[Mazuta]

Why's that?!!!

[svp67]

Quote: Mazuta

Why's that?!!!

And what is it limited there? Nothing, in contrast to the limited width of the armored hull "rotating conveyor" AZ

[Mazuta]

The dimensions of a crazy niche ...
"Size always matters."

[Mazuta]

If again for the "next cycle of modernization", then maybe so ...
But it is possible to "shove in something unproductive" up to a certain limit ...

[Mazuta]

And the T-90, as the T-62 you do not consider a dead end development? Why?!!

[svp67]

Quote: Mazuta

And the T-90, as the T-62 you do not consider a dead end development? Why?!!

The T-90 still has development potential, and the T-44,54,55,62 scheme has it all, exhausted

[Mazuta]

I’m not getting used to the chat ... damn, I wrote, wrote and all the hell ....
The adversary "finally did not bother with the scheme" -
I rolled up the seventh skating rink, Negro, I’m sorry, the African American is a little later, and the curtain is like 4 in the cupboard ... Know, drag it until you overcharge ...
With such a "huge shoulder strap", as on the 62-ke, where the UNITARY shot was manually loaded, and then the cartridge case was also spit out
(correct if I lied, I can ...)
there was no potential? !!
Put at least a crazy MZ, at least an extra tower ...

[svp67]

Quote: Mazuta

there was no potential? !!

Alas ... The tank’s weight was close to 40 tons, the installation of a 125-mm gun would add five more tons, since it would have to increase the tower’s overhead when using a unit, such a unitary ammunition would be very heavy, and using a separate artillery shot would reduce the rate of fire, so the choice of mechanization of the combat station was predetermined. We have half of the tank’s ammunition capacity, these are high-grade high-explosive shells. And they are heavy. If you watch the video of shooting from Western tanks, where they quickly and famously load the cannon, you can see that they use BOPS (armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber projectile), this is the lightest of the shells used by the tank, therefore the loading speed is such. Leave them charging a full-fledged OFS at a fast pace, 100% that their charging speed will immediately sag

[Mazuta]

There is no need to increase the epaulet, that's for sure! Because nowhere to go!
I won’t argue about five tons. Though-
3,5 (39,5-36) this difference is given by the tower, the hull and the bk (to a lesser extent the gun).
Sq. Hangs OF26 I am in the know ...
I'm not going to agitate for the refusal to "mechanize the ammunition stowage."

[Mazuta]

about the potential of the T-90 ...
Not a good life niche appeared. And the log on board ...
But the dimensions of the case remained, alas, "without modernization."
God forbid, if I'm wrong ...
Look at the m / v hatch, VLD and the sloth case and compare with 72 ...
His tower is magnificent ("cats" are envy), but why are the lower containers of the VDZ so located?
What does she look like ?! You often recall this product, I am also very sorry for it ...
About VT (rotating conveyor):
Of course, the sides and redan are not rubber, but even here, on the site, a friend posted a picture (in my opinion, about an article in a Polish magazine). Alas, she did not seem interesting to anyone ...
"Neighborhood condition" there, almost like the satellites in the planetary.
But the epaulette ... t-62 I did not just remember.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Mazuta

Do you think "Zabashny MZ" is a panacea ?!
And if in a year, two or three, after the next sep. v ... have to increase the size of the BPS?

when the ammunition is located in the aft recess of the turret, the size of the shot is not so critical than when placing the ammunition under the BO polikom. Those. it can be increased almost seamlessly. For example, I’m sure that if a gun of increased power is placed on the T-90M and loaded with promising shots to it, then it is precisely in a non-mechanized laying in the aft niche.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

when the ammunition is located in the aft recess of the tower, the size of the shot is not so critical than when placing the ammunition under the polycom

This is true, it is not entirely clear why this is necessary.

Quote: Gregory_45

I’m sure that if a gun of increased power is placed on the T-90M and loaded with promising shots to it, then it is precisely in a non-mechanized laying in the aft niche

I wonder how these shots will fall into the cannon if they cannot fit in the MOH.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

This is true, it is not entirely clear why this is necessary.

promising shots (of the Vacuum family 900 mm long) in the MZ of T-72/90 tanks do not fit

Quote: SaltY

I wonder how these shots will hit the cannon.

manual loading. Let it be for now.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

manual loading. Let it be for now

So, let's take a closer look. We have a shell in the stowage, a charge - it doesn’t matter where, albeit in the Ministry of Health. The task is to charge.
They ran to the stern after the shell, handed it to the man who charged it, shoves it into the gun (uncomfortable !!), how long it was short, but stuffed, put the charge in, a shot !!!
And - the second iteration ...
Somehow everything is very difficult, do not you think? I’m just silent about the rate of fire, it’s nothing ... do you have a not so perverted version of actions, is this categorically unsuitable for battle?

[Grigory_45]

Charging the same as on foreign tanks, Abrams or Leopard. With the only difference being that the bottom is unitary, we have separate. And the rate of fire depends not only and so much on the pace of the MOH or the loader, but on the gunner of the operator. In addition, as he said, this measure is still temporary. For good, you need a new MOH and complete removal of the BC from the BO

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

Charging the same as on foreign tanks, Abrams or Leopard

I only saw these tanks in the movies, but the places there are like in the room. And in ours - only to sit in your place, cringing a little. It will not work in the T-90 "as foreign", it is cramped there and inconvenient. And I asked about that, not out of love for art, but because I have a little idea what kind of sekas it is - manual loading of a fool under a meter long in a BO T-90.

Quote: Gregory_45

And the rate of fire depends not only and so much on the pace of the MOH or loader, but on the operator’s gunner

Oh well ... no.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

Quote: Gregory_45
And the rate of fire depends not only and so much on the pace of the MOH or loader, but on the operator’s gunner

Oh well ... no.

well yes. The MZ loading cycle of the same T-90 of later releases is 7 seconds. The gunner may need much more time (from getting the command to the firing of a shot), especially for a moving target and a moving tank.
Do not confuse the technical rate of fire and the practical rate of fire - the second is always lower, and noticeable.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

The gunner may need much more time (from receiving the command to the firing of the shot)

Well, no. Projectile selection and loading after determination of the target and target designation to the gunner. After charging the time, the gunner needs only as much as it takes to combine the square with the target and press a couple of buttons.

Quote: Gregory_45

especially on a moving target and from a moving tank

Tanks shoot a direct shot, the distance is usually "pistol", the target is moving or standing still, in this case it is almost indifferent. The cannon on the stabilizer, whether the car is moving or not, is also practically indifferent, unless, of course, it is driving along the "tank road" (it has a Japanese name, Toyama-Tokanawa) ... well, nobody canceled the "short" one And as for manual loading, and a meter bandura, and in motion - here I have big doubts ...

[svp67]

Quote: SaltY

And as for manual loading, and a meter bandura, and in motion - here I have big doubts ...

And how was it done before the T-64 on our tanks ... especially on the T-62. You cannot say that it is a great pleasure, the "ballet" is still the same, but quite feasible

[Salty]

Quote: svp67

And how it was done before the T-64 on our tanks ... especially on the T-62

So there everything was imprisoned for manual loading. And here you are not here, it is crowded and uncomfortable

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

And here you are not here, it is crowded and uncomfortable

Yes, it’s cramped and inconvenient, the ammunition shell is pushed all over the tank (if we are talking about the T-72/90), but still feasible. With the raising of the prayers of such a mother and with a drop in rate of fire to 1 round per minute.
As far as I know, experienced tankers did not replenish non-mechanized laying at all - they went without it. The sense of it in combat conditions is zero.
The legs grow, as always, from the incorrect demands of the representatives of the Moscow Region - they certainly wanted the tank to have at least 40 rounds of ammunition. So it was necessary to shove something that did not fit into the carousel literally throughout the tank - you know this better than me.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

you know it better than me

Is not a fact. But you know better than me how to manually push a 90-cm "scrap" in a T-90 into a gun. I can’t imagine this, my fantasy is denied.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

ak 90-cm "scrap" in the T-90 manually into the gun to push

in 2A46 you don’t cram it. It was a different weapon (re-read the comments). Manual loading is possible, although with ballet elements

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

It was a different weapon (re-read the comments)

Yes? Blame, did not notice, re-read.

[Mazuta]

under the "increased power" you need a different shoulder strap.

[Mazuta]

finally!!!!!!! Someone remembered about MO !!!!!!
if I could, I would put ten pluses ...

[svp67]

Quote: SaltY

And here you are not here, it is crowded and uncomfortable

Also "reclining" ... yes

[Mazuta]

So you remembered the T -62! with a kind word ...

[Qas]

"... how much from the operator's gunner ..." Really?

[Salty]

Quote: Qas

"... how much from the operator's gunner ..." Really?

Man theorizes don't bother

[svp67]

Quote: Gregory_45

Charging the same as on foreign tanks, Abrams or Leopard.

What is it like? The mechanic jumped out at the stern, took out a projectile - gave it to the commander, he drove it manually into the chamber, at this moment the mechanic takes out a charge, gives it to the commander, he loads the gun with it, the mechanic takes his place, the commander removes the gun from the stopper, the gunner makes a tip and fires a shot, after which the cycle repeats and all this is under enemy fire ... Do you understand the whole idiocy of the situation? These projectiles are applicable only with a "turreted MZ"

Quote: Gregory_45

And the rate of fire depends not only and so much on the pace of the MOH or loader, but on the operator’s gunner

You are wrong right now. In our tanks, the line of sight, at the time of loading, is inconsistent, in automatic mode. This means that as soon as after loading the gun is removed from the loading angle and comes to the aiming angle, you can immediately shoot ... immediately. So the speed of loading is also important, since the gunner can aim at the moment when loading is carried out.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: svp67

You are wrong right now. In our tanks, the line of sight, at the time of loading, is inconsistent, in automatic mode. This means that as soon as after loading the gun is removed from the loading angle and comes to the aiming angle, you can immediately shoot ... immediately. So the speed of loading is also important, since the gunner can aim at the moment when loading is carried out.

I don’t argue that aiming and loading cycles go in parallel. But still, AZ manages its work faster than a gunner. The rate of fire will be determined by the time of the AZ cycle only if the tank is used as self-propelled guns - it fires from a place at the same stationary target. In all other cases, and especially when shooting at enemy tanks in motion, the AZ will end its cycle much earlier, and the rate of fire will be determined by the speed of the operator.

Somehow I came across calculations from the research of Moscow Region, even from Soviet times. Where the time of the aimed shot of tanks was compared with different SLAs (t-62, T-64A and later T-64). Firstly, the time for firing a shot from a standstill and on the move differs by about 5-10 seconds, and (well, it is commonplace for us) - the more advanced the LMS (stabilization of the sight field and automation of data entry into the field calculator), the higher the rate of fire. But the practical and technical rates of fire varied greatly - for example, the T-64A could fire an aimed shot in 25 seconds from a position in motion

[Mazuta]

for Gregory_45:
This is "finally not an option."

[Lord of the Sith]

Something about the T-14 is neither rumor nor spirit ...

[Werwulf_1989]

In the same place where the "Boomerangs" all sorts of everything has already been sawed and bankrupt. But for the member carrier "Aurus" they created and moved the platform, so there the specialists were paid 5k bucks each, and here the old people plow for 20-ka and even the prototypes somehow manage to do.

[carstorm 11]

do not carry nonsense. tests go on these platforms. everyone knows about this. throw it cool of course, but if not in the subject, why climb into the comments?

[private person]

do not carry nonsense. tests go on these platforms. everyone knows about this

It’s you don’t carry nonsense to "Armata" already a year ago promised to put in the troops "hurray patriots" shouted. And in the end what? "Armata" except for the samples participating in the parade has not appeared anywhere else, but now "Breakthrough". A new way to make money?

[carstorm 11]

me on the drum at who and what was yelling. the end of the tests was officially announced only at the end of last year. and you listen to anyone you want.

[private person]

the end of the tests was officially announced only at the end of last year.

Did they tell you this personally? And even earlier there was official information that last year the T-14s should have already arrived in the troops and the number was called.

[Dr. Sorge]

Hangar, Armata ... Some mock promises.

[carstorm 11]

they did. for testing. the car always goes through different stages. military trials is one of them.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Werwulf_1989

In the same place as "Boomerangs"

Well, if 1989 is the year of birth, it is excusable, in part.

[nickname7]

Something about the T-14 is neither rumor nor spirit

Dividends with PR actions were collected, but there the grass did not grow.
T90 at least experienced well done, but still, it must first be put in the army, and then to the parade. But it doesn’t seem like they can’t show off, apparently they say when they put it there, and ratings are needed now.

[1976AG]

The T-14 party is undergoing military tests.

[Lord of the Sith]

It is clear that everything is still being tested;
But some suspicious and ominous silence. As if they got water in their mouths, for a long time there was no news about the T-14.

[1976AG]

And you, besides how to "cut" the words, do you know any other words? Or are you thinking of creating something new, is it like going to a store? How to finish - they will announce

[Lord of the Sith]

To saw? Budget? Where did I say that? Well ka?

Finish = finish.

[1976AG]

Do they finish this in the sense of completing it? Then I apologize.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

To saw? Budget? Where did I say that? Well, ka ?.

You have a short memory. Whose words are:

still being tested finish off

[Lord of the Sith]

Read above, and indeed, this expression is familiar, after assembly to finish with a file?
If anything, I can tell you what a file is, otherwise the "budget" immediately comes into my head

[Piramidon]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

Anyway, this expression is familiar, after assembly to finish with a file?

If this is what was meant, then I apologize. Recently, the word "saw" has more to do with embezzlement of the budget than even with files, sawmills and felling .. So, in order to avoid misunderstandings, it is better to use the word "finalize", which is understood and officially used by all professionals.

[Lord of the Sith]

It happens

Then, the budget - to master, and the technique - to finalize))

[Piramidon]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

Then, the budget - to master

Well, you can even more specifically - "to take away" and "plunder".

[1976AG]

But how can he not get into the head if almost every second likes to be smart about cutting the budget. There is nothing more to say.

[Lord of the Sith]

Well, let’s say, every first one who hates other people's money in the budget

[Astra wild]

Lord, next time, clarify what you are talking about.

[Vitaly161]

why do we need a crude tank in the army? let them correct children's sores and work quietly quietly without fuss

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

why do we need a crude tank in the army? let them correct children's sores

but do not tell me a method by which it is possible to identify children's (and not only) diseases of a machine without exploiting it massively in the troops? Share the know-how.

[Vitaly161]

that is, what is currently undergoing trial operation, does this mean anything?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

that is, what is currently undergoing trial operation, does this mean anything?

and how many tanks pass it, which series, and in what parts? The answer to this question is very important, I think you can answer it

Experimental operation only bears fruit when a more or less decent number of cars are "rolled" (and they are not kept in hangars - God forbid young sergeants with letekhi will break them!), Those parts and those servicemen who are going to operate the equipment (and not testers or elite units), and it takes a minimum of a year or two.

Are you ready to guarantee that we have at least a regiment of Armat, which the linear part "rolls"?
See what’s the matter. The larger the number of machines, and the more intensively operated, not by superprofessionals, but by ordinary military personnel, the more diseases of technology (and tactics of its use) will come out - and the more quickly they can be eliminated. Nobody wants to have such a situation, so that the flaws come out during the fighting?

[Vitaly161]

and since when should the RF Ministry of Defense personally report to you? Maybe this is information for the joint venture? or generally secret? will be the president of the Russian Federation, perhaps you will be better informed, and so far you look like a green spy)

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

and since when should the RF Ministry of Defense personally report to you?

why are you so nervous? But you were sure that military operation was going according to plan. I wrote you how it should be. If you have any information that refutes me, please inform it in an acceptable form. If not, then you have only speculation, and your disputes with me are meaningless. Like your statements.

Quote: Vitaliy161

maybe this is information for the joint venture?

Or maybe not. As far as is known from open sources, 12 vehicles were transferred to the Armed Forces.
As for the documents with the signature stamp of chipboard and in a secret manner, I had access to them. Because I have questions (because I know the kitchen from the inside), but you don’t (because you don’t know it, you believe the media)

[Qas]

The stamp "DSP" and "restricted secret" is nothing at all. This is the level of a cleaning lady or a secretary.

[nickname7]

and since when should the RF Ministry of Defense personally report to you?

Nobody wanted to take them out into the public space, but since Armata participated in the parade, it means that some information could be communicated to the public. Otherwise, the suspicion creeps in that Armata is "rubbing glasses"

[Salty]

Quote: nickname7

since Armata participated in the parade, it means that it was possible to communicate some information to the society

And you can, as we see, not inform. Passion on the Internet does not affect the process of rearmament of the army.

[nickname7]

Passion on the Internet does not affect the process of rearmament of the army

Passion is one thing, but rearmament is stalled; they are not able to be effective in the economy. But to increase the rating, they imitate work, conduct public relations campaigns, about analogs. But in real life only pipes are pulled.

[nickname7]

In general, Armat planned about 2300, that is, the matter is in money, which is not enough. In fact, the Russian Federation has enough money for both tanks and ships, but it was stolen.
Here Boldyrev claims in the article "How to steal one wallet twice"

Look at the registry: how many shares of Rosneft are directly owned by Russia? Surprise: an insignificant share is practically zero. And where is the state package? For a structure that I can’t evaluate in any way other than as a typical parasitic laying - at Rosneftegaz. This is a typical laying between state property and the federal budget, which should receive dividends on the state-owned shares. They should, but they go to the gasket, from which then only a small part is graciously sent to the budget. The sacramental question: for what is the gasket? Obviously: not to be washed, so skated, but to withdraw dividends from the budget

https://www.km.ru/economics/2020/03/08/sberbank/871796-putin-ne-ravno-rossiya-kak-ukrast-odin-koshelek-dvazhdy

[Piramidon]

Quote: Gregory_45

but do not tell me a method by which it is possible to identify children's (and not only) illnesses of a machine without exploiting it en masse in the troops?

I can add from my own experience. Our Tu-95RC is constantly being developed from the first to the last day of operation. A factory brigade was assigned to the regiment, which performed these works.

[Vitaly161]

But how can these bastards know how the most sophisticated and latest military equipment is brought to mind? The same Grach doped up almost all of his experimental operation in Afghanistan, I think that people like Gregory are more complicated than incandescent bulbs and didn’t hold anything in their hands

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

But how do these lords know how the most sophisticated and latest military equipment is brought to mind?

be nervous, the second time I advise you. I have a second admission group and 11 years in the defense design bureau. And what can you brag about that gives you the right to insult me? So I understand, having no merits, downgrade another?

Quote: Vitaliy161

I think that people like Gregory are more complicated than incandescent bulbs and didn’t hold anything in their hands

but I think that you have described yourself now. Although self-critical, but true.
And for the future: without knowing the person, it is very stupid to speak out about him. Now you yourself have exposed yourself in the most unsightly light.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Piramidon

I can add from my own experience. Our Tu-95RC is constantly being developed from the first to the last day of operation. A factory brigade was assigned to the regiment, which performed these works.

this is normal practice. When a machine is needed, it is taken raw and, but at the same time, the industry is strained so that it brings the samples to mind - even in the acting parts.
And this was done not only here, but also abroad. Therefore, I frankly do not understand those who stand by the mountain for trying the car for 100 years, and not to test it to the end, and at this time the aircraft will do what they have, and then master new technology for another 5-7 years. This is trying to justify the unjustified delay in the transfer of technology, and in fact - to justify the fact that our managers are not coping with their tasks.

[Vitaly161]

you understand that it’s an order of magnitude more difficult to correct deficiencies identified on finished products, you can tighten the budget to rivet 500 valves, and after a year drag them back to the plant for modernization, you ask why? What is the need for valves at the moment?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

you understand that it’s an order of magnitude more difficult to correct defects identified on finished products

it is indisputable, but it cannot be otherwise.
Of course, the product goes through several stages of testing, it is rolled on stands and landfills in all kinds of conditions. But this never gives a guarantee of a full result. The testers have their own criteria (the compliance of the actual characteristics with the declared ones), and the parts that actually operate the machine may have their own. And in order to take into account the wishes of the personnel, to eliminate the design flaws identified by them, it is necessary to run the machines in linear parts. And the sooner it starts, the faster they will bring the car to a truly combat unit.

I do not propose to rivet thousands of tanks at once - just equip them with one or two parts, and carry out controlled operations by the personnel who will continue to operate these vehicles. Testers and conscripts (yes even young contract soldiers) have different training, different operating conditions (the same material base for servicing machines). And in this section you will immediately see how to modify the machine.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

I do not propose to rivet thousands of tanks at once - just equip them with one or two parts

That is 100-200 cars? Will not be too much?

Quote: Gregory_45

and carry out controlled operation

Horror ... do not write more of this, they will laugh. Better explain how you are going to charge the T-90 "Vacuum".

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Gregory_45

this is normal practice. When a machine is needed, it is taken raw and, but at the same time, the industry is strained so that it brings the samples to mind - even in the acting parts.

When is it needed? We have a war, or what? You flaunt your involvement here, but at the same time confuse the completion of the crude model and planned modernization, in connection with the natural development of defense systems, weapons, etc.
And, excuse my interest .. the cleaning lady who washes the floors in the secret department, is that her group of security clearance? (I remembered an old bike about a cleaner in the CIA))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ROSS_51

When is it needed? We have a war, or what?

and when they adopted the T-64, was there a war? Or when they put on the wing of the Su-27, also fought with someone? If there is no war, then, in your opinion, there is no need to upgrade weapons? So you can now pull out the ancient T-64s, Mosin rifles, Maxim machine guns, and be satisfied))

The same T-64 was taken so raw that it wasn’t accepted for service for several years and was operated only in Ukraine - closer to the manufacturer. And what is the result? The revolutionary tank, the world's first tank of the second post-war generation, the first MBT. Many then could also say that there was no need for it - after all, the T-62 was perfectly mastered by parts and industry!

[Vitaly161]

T-64 is a great example of how to merge millions into the toilet, now it’s not a union, we can’t afford it, 64ka was a very problematic car, unlike the T-72

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

T-64 is a great example of how to merge millions into the toilet, now it’s not a union, we can’t afford it, 64ka was a very problematic car, unlike the T-72

only for some reason do you close your eyes to the fact that if there hadn’t been a T-64, there would have been no T-72

[Vitaly161]

what ?? and nothing that the t-72 is a further logical development of the t-62? and not a single unit, assembly or design is borrowed from 64ki

[Salty]

Quote: Vitaliy161

but not that the T-72 is a further logical development of the T-62?

Attention, the correct answer is:

In parallel with the work on the tank "Object 438" in Kharkov, similar work was carried out in N. Tagil. Back in 1967, it was decided that the Plant them. Malysheva (chief designer A.A. Morozov) will be engaged in the refinement of the T-64A tank with the 5TDF engine (Object 434), and at Uralvagonzavod (chief designer L.N. Kartsev) they will work on creating a variant of the T-64A tank with engine type B-2.

Tagil machine received the factory index "Object 172". The work was set by a joint Decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the USSR Council of Ministers "On equipping the Soviet Army with new medium T-64A tanks and developing capacities for their production" No. 802-266 of August 15, 1967 and by order of the Minister of Defense Industry of January 5, 1968.

"Object 172" was created as a mobilization version of the T-64A tank ("Object 434") for production at the Uralvagonzavod in the "special" period. However, during the work in Tagil, the original design of the T-64A was arbitrarily radically altered. In January 1968, the MTS hosted the NTS under the project of the Object 172 tank, which was approved. The first prototype of the Object 172 tank at the Uralvagonzavod was assembled in the summer of 1968. The Object 172 tanks were a rework of the serial Object 434 vehicles (T-64A) produced in Kharkov

"Object 172M" under the name T-72 and was put into service.

http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php?topic=13079.0

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

what ?? and nothing that the t-72 is a further logical development of the t-62? and not a single unit, assembly or design is borrowed from 64ki

first version of Object 172:

does not remind anything ???

T-72 was created as a mobilization version of the T-64, under the power and technology of UVZ. When working on bugs, the Ural designers changed components and assemblies of sixty-four, which do not meet the requirements of reliability or their view of what the tank should be like. It turned out its own design, but the beginning and concept of which comes from the T-64

[Vitaly161]

and as a result, from 64ki to 72m not a damn thing left, cool

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Vitaliy161

as a result, from 64ki to 72m not a damn thing left

left the concept. And no matter how much you accept realities, the fact remains that the T-72 grew out of the T-64

[Mazuta]

Regarding the components and assemblies, a person is absolutely right ...

[Mazuta]

controversial statement though ...

[Mazuta]

minus the man only for the fact that he is not an adherent of 64 ?!

[Mazuta]

We pray for her "day and night" ...

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

The same T-64 was taken so raw that it wasn’t accepted for service for several years and was operated only in Ukraine - closer to the manufacturer

Was it accepted or not? How can you "exploit" a tank that has not been put into service? What years are you talking about, please specify?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

So accepted or not accepted?

adopted in 1966, after the tank began to go into actual operation in 1964.

Quote: SaltY

How can you "exploit" a tank that has not been put into service?

can. Just as they exploited the Yak-28, for example, which had never officially been in service with the USSR Air Force

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

adopted in 1966

Yeah, "under the herringbone".

Quote: Gregory_45

the tank began to go into actual operation in 1964

Can you share the details, what kind of "real exploitation" is this?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SaltY

Can you share the details, what kind of "real exploitation" is this?

The first vehicles were sent to the Kharkov Guards Tank Command School and the 41st Guards Tank Division (Chuguev) for trial operation. In the process of operation, the machines were constantly being refined (there was something to refine, and in considerable quantities) In the 64th, 90 tanks were released, in the 65th - 160, in 1966 - almost three hundred.

[Salty]

Quote: Gregory_45

The first vehicles were sent to the Kharkov Guards Tank Command School and the 41st Guards Tank Division (Chuguev) in trial operation

Here! Thank, exactly this I wanted to hear.

Quote: Gregory_45

In the 64th they released 90 tanks, in the 65th - 160, in 1966 - almost three hundred

I don’t know the details in quantity, but I think that 5 tank regiments for trial operation is too much. Although the USSR could afford it. And now about Armata:

As REGNUM reported earlier, a contract for the supply of a batch of Armata tanks for experimental military operation was signed in September 2019. In total, according to the contract, by the end of 2021, Uralvagonzavod is to transfer 132 tanks and infantry fighting vehicles to the Russian military on the Armata platform ordered by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

There’s nothing left to wait, we’ll wait ...

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Vitaliy161

why do we need a crude tank in the army? let them correct children's sores

but do not tell me a method by which it is possible to identify children's (and not only) diseases of a machine without exploiting it massively in the troops? Share the know-how.

Syria. Tested 210 weapons. 10 samples — procurement was suspended due to identified shortcomings.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ROSS_51

Syria. Tested 210 weapons. 10 samples — procurement was suspended due to identified shortcomings.

checking in real databases is also a way. However, there are two points.
1. I talked about testing equipment in peacetime
2. Syria is still not quite right. Because armored vehicles are not operated by our military, and the conditions there are quite specific. summarizing: a high-quality picture cannot be compiled. Although, the experience of the combat use of technology is mandatory carefully studied.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Gregory_45

2. Syria is still not quite right. Because armored vehicles are not operated by our military, and the conditions there are quite specific. summarizing: a high-quality picture cannot be compiled.

But you are in vain. No one will allow our Syrians to exploit our equipment unless it is bought by the Syrians.
As for the conditions, the most normal. Armored vehicles will be used precisely in such conditions. Or can you imagine a local conflict between Russia and any of the countries bordering us?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: ROSS_51

But you are in vain. No one will allow our Syrians to exploit our equipment unless it is bought by the Syrians.

saying that

Quote: Gregory_45

Because armored vehicles are not operated by our military

mean completely different. The fact that the Syrian crews operate the equipment, and they have a completely different level of training and mentality. It’s like giving a monkey a machine gun and judging the qualities of small arms by the way she uses it.

[carstorm 11]

gos go this year end

[smile]

Lord of the Sith
Hello.
At one time, the revolutionary T-64 tank began to be mass-produced and entered the troops 14 years after the receipt of the first "driving copy" ..... Armata, it seems, in 10 years, if not less.
Any questions?
I have - not to you, but generally, to some impatient ones - why do you think that the Russian Federation has more resources and it is obliged to adopt high-tech weapons and military equipment earlier? what did they do in the USSR, and earlier than what did our probable friends do and do?
Let me remind you - the Raptor was adopted and began to enter the army 14 after the take-off of the prototype, Fu 35 - 13 years later. Our fifth generation fighter - 10 years after the take-off of this version of the fifth generation fighter.
I don’t understand - why are the critics dissatisfied ... with the fact that the terms are too short? So compared to who? Who did better?
I don’t want to continue, because I want to swear with bad words, but I can’t use anything but "rubbish and aphids" - bloody moderators will beat me in the zope with a stick, as one of my six-year-old acquaintances said when he was five years old. :))))
So it goes. :)))

[AleBors]

We are waiting for the T-34 with the "defeat-10500" configuration. Has the plywood peeled off on the "boomerangs"?

[210ox]

Keep waiting and watching ...

[AleBors]

What do you suggest?

[ROSS_51]

Quote: AleBors

We are waiting for the T-34 with the "defeat-10500" configuration. Has the plywood peeled off on the "boomerangs"?

At the circus school release of clowns happened? Something ran too much ..

[smile]

ROSS_51
She didn’t ... in Ukraine they let the madhouse go ... well, they ran into it, there were a lot of them there ..... and the topic was tasty for them - our all-conspirators regularly feed them.
Rather, both sides feed each other with information cookies, which is why both sides experience an extraordinary emotional upsurge. :)))))
If we translate Lavrov's phrase about both of these sides from diplomatic to anecdotal - from db bl to English humor - we get the phrase of the English butler - "Thames, sir!" :))))

[AleBors]

The height of wit. Are you an internship in "comedy"?

[smile]

AleBors
Hello.
No. Therefore, I will not be able to protect you for admission to this institution. But you try, maybe you can do it all yourself.
Aren't you tired of the clowning of professional all-singers, which I can’t look at without laughter?
Interestingly, knowing that the T 64 tank had entered the troops after the prototype was created 14 years later, would they also screech at that time? And you expressed your concern just as seriously?
You know that the most stupid and ridiculous acts and statements are issued by people with extremely serious facial expressions.
Yes, but they wanted to say something, my dear, except that you do not like my humor? :)))

[nickname7]

And you expressed your concern just as seriously?

On all channels, the noise was sky-high, on "Zvezda" the presenter was already chanting about the coolness of the new tanks, like even NATO wanted to disband, they take sleeping pills, because insomnia from excitement, but it turned out that Armat was 3,5 units. The criticism is that there is unjustified PR, raw test samples. Let them bring it up, test it, but without noise.

[AleBors]

Hello! Your humor is indifferent to me. Like the freak show on TV. As for the clownery and "all the scum". Remind me where we built a factory for the production of high-precision machine tools or modern electronics? For the production of new engines for aviation, navy and BT? What about science? Therefore, I do not share the enthusiasm that a tank developed under the USSR, that is, in the last century, is passed off as "having no analogues in the world" by means of some finishing touches and filing.
All our "breakthroughs" are the legacy of the USSR and its developments. Or do you disagree? Take off your pink glasses ... And I regard your rushing as a lack of culture and education.
However, it is difficult to expect anything else from the Zaputinist and the Uriapatriot.
I have the honor!

[smile]

Ale BorS
1. Thank God that my humor is indifferent to you ... so, since you have already begun to answer my comments, will you start talking to the point? Sho. No? Well, how can it be… after all, you actually admitted that you are not interested in humor – that you wrote nonsense about humor and gum club in vain… in principle, thank you for understanding what kind of absurdity you wrote.
Accepted. No offense. ))
2. You, in response to directly announced information about the timing of the adoption of specific equipment - since the deadlines do not fit into the all-encompassing screech, the Ukrainian ideological system and the liberal buet - begin to dodge, like in a frying pan .... instead of an honest answer on the topic, you began to refer to our shortcomings in engine building, production of precision machine tools, electronics
3. I repeat - you are not able to understand why the t 64 tank was put into service and went into service only 14 years after the first sample went, but you know exactly how to squeal when, under the current leadership of the country, an even more revolutionary tank will go to the troops four years faster ....
The statement that Armata is reworking something - in general - beyond good and evil ... sorry - but with a lie - this is overkill, since any person who still has a head will understand that you are lying ... Question - why are you lying so stupidly? No, I'm really interested, I'm not joking ....
4. I will repeat - why are the complex models of weapons and military equipment that we have, that our probable friends have, that under the USSR, that now - they go through a long period from prototype to introduction into the troops.
13-14 years old.
You and your kind squeal about the lost polymers, although the equipment begins to go into the army in ten years - that is armata, that the su-57 is a quarter faster than it was in a successful Union or in the USA ...
Do you have any. have a conscience?
It seems that it’s completely absent - you don’t admit your lies when you were caught, you don’t even try to take a break and justify your position - you start raising new topics - in your case - engine building, electronics, etc.
5. The lack of culture in which you accused me is quite possible - I have only two higher educations - and both are not about culture :)))
The disclosure of the "zaputintsy" - gladly welcome - I remember very well that on the swamp Natsiki. homosexuals and liberals stood shoulder to shoulder, demanding - Putin-gett ... :)))) Yeah, I remember the children who were caught leaving McFall's reception room (and there was a representative of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation - which is shameful for sane communists) - and what do you say, for which of the following scum are you drowning?
The penultimate - all developments are based on the developments of their predecessors - that of the evil bloody Communists, Ivan Terribbles, who worked by the inheritance of tsarist Russia, and that we have working by the legacy of the Communists. You might think tryndostan - from the word - to lie - does not work on its previous and stolen developments, but on invented again ... yeah, while they rejected all the achievements of their predecessors, chemistry, physics and aphids, necromancy - they all came up with a new thing. .... :)))))
But it does not help. You have already been convicted.
Given the above, it makes no sense to talk with you about the problems of engine building, or science - if you lie so impudently in such simple and verifiable things, then ... .. what kind of radar buoy did you communicate with a liar who either does not own the topic or does not want to talk the truth ... yeah, he also does not understand humor.
Goodbye.

[Vasyan1971]

... refused to answer the question about the number of tanks that the Ground Forces would receive under the contract, stating that this information was not for wide distribution.

Afraid, probably, as if the adversaries were not curled up laughing.
But I'm not funny. More to such machines.

[1976AG]

He said it right. Information on ammunition stockpiles also refers to state secrets and no one will ever tell you the truth.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: 1976AG

Ammunition Stock Information

Did I understand you correctly? Amount of delivered tanks and information on ammunition stockpiles (?) Somehow connected?

[1976AG]

Misunderstood. Not connected. Just such information is a state secret.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: 1976AG

Just such information is a state secret.

What information? What does the ammunition have to do with it when it comes to the number of tanks.

[1976AG]

Information about the planned deliveries of tanks is not yet public. So understandable?

[Vasyan1971]

No. What does it have to do with

Quote: 1976AG

Ammunition stockpiles also relate to state secrets

?

[1976AG]

Relax, you are clearly overworked. Or read carefully.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: 1976AG

Relax, you are clearly overworked. Or read carefully.

That is, I am also to blame for your nonsense?

[carstorm 11]

about how) adversaries laugh? and how many tanks a year does it build, for example, the USA?))) Well, or is there Germany?))) or England?)))

[Vasyan1971]

Compare, for example, the supply of Su-57 and FE-35, draw an analogy ...

[Vitaly161]

USA, no one like BE) only the modernization of the existing park, but they riveted their mother do not worry ..

[Astra wild]

By the way, my boy, finishes the tank, does not have a very high opinion of American tanks: "they are good against armies that are poorly trained and without normal anti-tank equipment"
He praises the "biathlon" T 72 very much (he knows very well). I asked about "Armata", and he laughed it off

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Astra wild

I asked about "Armata", and he laughed it off

What does it mean to joke? A belt?))

[ROSS_51]

Quote: carstorm 11

about how) adversaries laugh? and how many tanks a year does it build, for example, the USA?))) Well, or is there Germany?))) or England?)))

You won’t believe it at all. Now they are mostly modernizing.

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

At the adversaries and themselves now in the tank park, the cat burst into tears.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Vasyan1971

... refused to answer the question about the number of tanks that the Ground Forces would receive under the contract, stating that this information was not for wide distribution.

Afraid, probably, as if the adversaries were not curled up laughing.
But I'm not funny. More to such machines.

First, you count how many adversary tanks in Europe. All together. Which are on the go.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: ROSS_51

You won’t believe it at all.

I will not believe it because I know that it is. Flutter, perhaps, somehow unconvincing.
https://m.gazeta.ru/army/2019/03/20/12254869.shtml
https://www.vpk-news.ru/news/33966
https://yandex.ru/turbo?text=https%3A%2F%2Fbmpd.livejournal.com%2F1271251.html
They are trying to stir up something like this in an embrace with the fanboys. Well, to the heap:

But, the flaw of our "probable friends" cannot be an excuse for our own. I think so. ©

[alavrin]

"A remote-controlled machine-gun mount of 12,7 mm caliber is installed on the tower." - Long awaited.

[Dmitry Makarov]

I hope they will not remove the log from the starboard side of the T-90, even if it is driving along the Red Square with it.

[Mentat]

Quote: AleBors

We are waiting for the T-34 with the "defeat-10500" configuration. Has the plywood peeled off on the "boomerangs"?

Sit and calmly nurse your grandchildren, and do not pour your mold and bile into the forum. Have you served? - relax! And do not harm the country with thoughtless texts.

[Astra wild]

Quote: carstorm 11

do not carry nonsense. tests go on these platforms. everyone knows about this. throw it cool of course, but if not in the subject, why climb into the comments?

To cry

[Zabvo]

Only probably it is not necessary to carry equipment to parades, but to supply the troops in the required volumes. And then the "Amusing Regiment" is no longer funny.

[BREAKTHROUGH READY]

These "breakthroughs" on the t72 hull have been rolling around exhibitions since the 90s, and things are still there. The same amount of time will go from parades to combat units.

[Wolf]

The T90M is a good tank, but the question is what about the electronics and whether the "glass armor" eats so that the view is 360 degrees. In addition, taking into account the experience in Syria, the Terminatori must necessarily live as part of a tank company with a radar that will determine where the ATGM fire is from so that they can immediately be covered. In such wars, there are many ATGMs and they must be quickly destroyed. In addition, the T90M is probably the best tank in the world for today and convincingly! Tank balance of movement speed and firepower, and everyone saw that MOVEMENT IS LIFE !!! Voivode Zhivoin Mishich - God of War saw it and in practice Showed it 116 years ago!

[awg75]

Quote: Wolf

The T90M is a good tank, but the question is what about the electronics and whether the "glass armor" eats so that the view is 360 degrees. In addition, taking into account the experience in Syria, the Terminatori must necessarily live as part of a tank company with a radar that will determine where the ATGM fire is from so that they can immediately be covered. In such wars, there are many ATGMs and they must be quickly destroyed. In addition, the T90M is probably the best tank in the world for today and convincingly! Tank balance of movement speed and firepower, and everyone saw that MOVEMENT IS LIFE !!! Voivode Zhivoin Mishich - God of War saw it and in practice Showed it 116 years ago!

the person is clearly not Russian, but in my opinion everything that he said is clearly smarter than what was said above.

[Kurare]

Quote: awg75

the person is clearly not Russian,

Judging by what quotes the Voivode Zivojin Mishić (19th-century Serbian commander), Wolf - Slav Serb.

[Grits]

Quote: awg75

the person is clearly not Russian, but in my opinion everything that he said is clearly smarter than what was said above.

He is from Serbia.

[1970mk]

Circus ... is it when the tests passed? What about Armata? All?

[fk7777777]

Yes, okay, it drives well, it's better to drive well than go badly. So do not la, la, ... I propose to call the first tank "fighter for freedom V. I. Lenin", it will be more understandable for the supastat))) ...

[Alexey from Perm]

another concept car?

[Radical]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Maz

And how is the t90m different from the t90?

1. The tower. A part of the ammunition stow has been moved to the aft niche, the Kalina fire control system has been installed, the installation of the 2A82-1M gun has been announced
2. The reservation scheme has been changed. The relict dynamic protection and anti-fragmentation lining are installed.
3. air conditioning and APU installed
4. announced the installation of GOP MP (control levers replaced by a helm of the BMP-3 type)

PMP and helm began to be installed even with BMP-1

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Radikal

PMP and helm began to be installed even with BMP-1

if you were dealing with BMP-1/2 and BMP-3, then you know the differences, and you must understand what he meant. On tanks the installation was announced precisely with BMP-3, GOP MP and automatic gear shifting by analogy with APP-688

[Victor March 47]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Aerodrome

The T-90M "Breakthrough" tank will be shown for the first time at the Victory Parade in Moscow
Today, 14: 32

T72:? Wow, it's really not funny, who will see 72 .. models .. "armature" already ... in the series.

Some kind of incomprehensible set of letters, signs and symbols. Is it not destiny to write articulately? Or, if only in the first rows to rumble on the keyboard? Anyway, they won't give you a gold champion medal for "first place" in the comments.

A crowd of feelings could not push through the brain.

[Victor March 47]

Quote: 1970mk

Circus ... is it when the tests passed? What about Armata? All?

There was still not enough to drive Armata for export. The T-90 will cost with all the upgrades. Hard to understand? I chew.

[Dzafdet]

Is the tower inhabited? Then this is just another cut of the budget. Will burn for a sweet soul ...

[Dzafdet]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

Something about the T-14 is neither rumor nor spirit ...

There are big problems with the engine. Uraltrac could not design a reliable engine. That is, there are cases, but there is nothing to carry them ...

[Radical]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Radikal

PMP and helm began to be installed even with BMP-1

if you were dealing with BMP-1/2 and BMP-3, then you know the differences, and you must understand what he meant. On tanks the installation was announced precisely with BMP-3, GOP MP and automatic gear shifting by analogy with APP-688

I honestly did not understand your idea, and I repeat once again that the planetary rotation mechanism (PMP) and the helm began to be installed even with the BMP-1. With this you hope you will not argue?

[Dubog]

The armature was already shown, and so it was shown and .... now they started to show the breakthrough, and where to hide one’s eyes from these shows.

[Whalebone]

After Armata, this is a short game. Migi 21s are not overwhelmed? To paint - and to the parade.

[_Ugene_]

an excellent tank, but without KAZ it is defenseless against the javelins, and their Americans are now selling everything to everyone, and they suburbanized all of Europe and the whole of Europe

[Grigory_45]

Quote: _Ugene_

great tank, but without KAZ

Firstly, KAZ can be put at the request of the Customer. There are requirements in the statement of work, paid the option - let there be Arena or Afghanistan in a simplified version

Second.

Quote: _Ugene_

but without KAZ, he is defenseless against the javelins,

before Javelin and Spike (and some other modern 4th and 5th generation ATGMs) KAZ can save. Because these missiles have a slide mode - a tank attack from the upper hemisphere, through which KAZ cannot work

[_Ugene_]

KAZ can be placed at the request of the Customer. There are requirements in TK

here is the key word - maybe when tanks are suddenly suddenly needed for their immediate mission, it’s not very interesting for tankers to find out what theoretically can be and what cannot be

these missiles have a slide mode - an attack from a tank from the upper hemisphere

so am I about the same, we need kaz, and even covering the upper hemisphere

[Grigory_45]

Quote: _Ugene_

here is the key word - maybe when tanks are suddenly suddenly needed for their immediate mission, it’s not very interesting for tankers to find out what theoretically can be and what cannot be

the question is exclusively to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Manufacturers have something to offer in this area, but it is the Ministry of Defense who decides in which configuration to buy the cars.

[_Ugene_]

there’s nothing for our manufacturers to offer to protect the tank from tankers in the upper hemisphere, why they don’t put ordinary kaz either is not clear, though they would have covered it from TOW and the like, either our manufacturers are not happy with what the manufacturers offer, or they think there’s nothing to regret tankers, women give birth

[Grigory_45]

Quote: _Ugene_

there is nothing for our manufacturers to offer to protect the tank from tank in the upper hemisphere

All the developments that are available in this area are fully implemented on the T-14 Armata. Question: will they be on production machines, open.

Quote: _Ugene_

ordinary kaz why they don’t put it is also not clear

I believe, for one reason: it is expensive for us (although the USSR was a pioneer in the development and implementation of KAZ for armored vehicles - unfortunately, mainly for prototypes, the only serial tank (and the first in the world equipped with KAZ), which was installed on a regular basis active defense complex, there was a T-55AD with the Drozd complex - but they were also released a little)

[_Ugene_]

all the developments that are available in this area are fully implemented on the Armata T-14

in Afghanistan there is no protection of the upper hemisphere, there is only smoke, aerosols and other dust in the eyes, although in fairness it should be noted that at the moment no one has serial KAZs that completely cover the tank from above, but this will not make it easier for our tankers

[Grigory_45]

Quote: _Ugene_

and their Americans are now selling everything to everyone, and they overpowered the Ukrainians and the whole of Europe with them

well, no need to dramatize. There are not so many similar complexes yet, they are very expensive. In addition, the calculations need to be trained - and expensive ATGMs do not shoot much. Thirdly, there is a right to them too - because missiles have GOS, and everything that has it can be confused. This is not uranium scrap, against which there is actually no reception

[_Ugene_]

dear they are much

expensive in comparison with what? with the cost of the T-90M?

they have control - because missiles have GOS, and everything that has it can be confused

and what kind of T-90M have regular means of counteracting the seeker? smoke screen or what? this is an extremely ineffective tool, how will the tanker understand that it’s time to put it? when it has already flown into the roof it’s too late to put the curtain

[Grigory_45]

Quote: _Ugene_

expensive in comparison with what?

with anti-tank systems of previous generations. Often arranging real firing is too expensive; for the most part, operators will have to be content with simulators.

Quote: _Ugene_

and what kind of T-90M have regular means of counteracting the seeker? smoke screen or what? this is an extremely ineffective tool, how will the tanker understand that it’s time to put it?

several tools have been developed:
1. protective coatings (the so-called Cape), reducing and distorting the thermal signature of the machine
2. aerosol grenades for Clouds hiding the tank not only in the optical, but also in the IR and radar range.
3. Shooting IR traps.

And although the KOEP Shtor floodlights on the latest versions of the T-90 have been removed (due to inefficiency against modern ATGMs), the sensors are left - as soon as the tank is illuminated by a laser, a command must be sent to turn the turret towards the threat and launch aerosol grenades

Much worse than Javelin is the Israeli Spike and the French MMP - they have feedback from the PU (operator) and can be manually guided through a fiber optic cable - so most of the interference is not scary for them, although it forces the operator to stay in position until the rocket hits the target.

[_Ugene_]

I hope you understand the real effectiveness of the funds that you listed against the Javelins, Spikes and MMP