The unique MiG-23-98 is able to replace the Turkish Air Force. The tool that was forgotten in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


Having bet on the complete removal of the tactical air wing mixed aviation Russian Aerospace Forces special forces from tasks to form a no-fly zone in Syrian airspace above the Idlib theater of war, as well as to the technically justified impossibility of using Syrian air defense systems S-300PMU-2 “Favorit” against Turkish air attack means skillfully hiding behind the Nur mountain range in the Khatai silt (due to the use of 48N6E2 anti-aircraft missiles, which need to be illuminated with semi-active radar seekers), the Turkish F-16C / D Block 50/50 + multi-role fighter squadron in the first days of the Spring Shield operation was able to achieve total air superiority over the obsolete strike aircraft of the Syrian Air Force.


There is nothing extraordinary in this scenario, because they are characterized by low maneuverability, an impressive effective scattering surface (of the order of 15-17 square meters), the presence of an outdated Orion-A radar with a parabolic antenna array and an extremely low level of noise immunity, as well as the lack of appropriate software and hardware reserve for the integration of modern medium-range air combat missiles and electronic warfare systems, front-line bombers of the Su-24 Syrian Air Force were intercepted by more or less modern cancers s "air-to-air" with active radar seeker AIM-120C-5/7 at ranges from 70 to 100 km (without penetration into Syrian airspace). Against this background, the Syrian air defense forces were able to oppose the Turks with only the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems and the Buk-M2E air defense systems, which provided cover exclusively for the eastern and southern areas of Big Idlib.

Unique MiG-23-98: modernization reserve, which was not embodied in hardware


Meanwhile, one and a half to two dozen front-line fighters of the MiG-23MF / ML family are in service with the Syrian Air Force combat units, which can be upgraded to the multi-functional versions of the MiG-23-98-1 / 2/3, announced by OKB . Mikoyan, OJSC "Fazotron-NIIR", as well as GosNIIAS back in 1999. Despite the fact that the program to upgrade the “Floggers” to the MiG-23-98 level was frozen back in the early 2000s, its renewal as part of the “package” of military-technical support to the Syrian Arab army is a matter of short time.

As for the optional filling of this modernization program, it provided for the re-equipment of the standard MiG-23ML / MF with perspective on-board Moskit-23 radars based on waveguide-slot antenna arrays (instead of the early Sapphire-23ML / RP-23ML, presented by the Cassegrain antenna ) with increased energy potential of the transmission path, as well as hardware and software adaptation of the weapons control systems (SUV) of the MiG-23ML family of fighters to the use of modern medium-range guided air combat missiles RVV-AE ( P-77), equipped with active radar homing type 9B-1348E. The range of "capture" targets with an effective reflective surface (EPR / EOP) of the order of 1,5-2 square meters. m (the F-16C multipurpose fighter with weapons at the nodes of the suspension) for this radar is about 70-75 km in an interference-free environment and 50-55 km in a more difficult jamming environment (when Turkish F-16C crews use EW AN / ALQ containers -131/165).

Nevertheless, the modernization “package” of the MiG-23-98 also boasts the ability to integrate into the avionics of a multi-range individual countermeasure fighter capable of reducing the range of its “capture” via the “falkonovskoy” airborne radar AN / APG-68 (V) 9 from 95 up to 50-60 km, respectively. As a result, when using the more maneuverable (in comparison with the AMRAAM family) guided air combat missiles RVV-AE, equipped with lattice aerodynamic rudders (provide maneuvering with 30-35G overloads), the MiG-23-98 could give a serious rebuff to the Turkish F-16C Block 50+ heading for the interception of the Syrian Su-24M.

No less significant advantage can be considered the possibility of integration into the electronic base of avionics of MiG-23-98-3 fighters of terminals of a two-way asynchronous data exchange line via a secure radio channel providing radio correction of R-77 missiles (and their more advanced version RVV-SD / “Product 170 -1 ”) on all parts of the flight path, which, together with on-board terminals of the K-DlAE type, would provide the possibility of intercepting Turkish F-16Cs by target designation from Russian long-range radar aircraft barrage over Latakia and Idlib the full detection and control of the A-50U, as well as multi-purpose fighters Su-35S with "farsighted" radar N035 "Irbis-E". At the same time, this SUV operation mode would provide the Syrian MiG-23-98-3 pilots with the opportunity to “land” by far more than one link of the Turkish F-16C without the need to activate their own airborne radars and subsequent rendezvous (for more stable tracking of Turkish fighters using electronic warfare systems), which would ultimately minimize Turkish AMRAAM retaliation.

Unfortunately, neither from the expert circles at the Russian defense ministry, nor from senior representatives of MiG RSK JSC and Fazotron-NIIR Corporation, there were no initiatives to provide the Syrian Air Force with such a “package” of military-technical support, and our a key Middle Eastern ally can use MiG-23ML fighters with huge modernization potential only as carriers of high-explosive fragmentation blanks for delivering attacks on Islamist formations in Bolshoi Idlib.
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  1. Amateur 6 March 2020 05: 54 New
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    The Turkish Air Force in the first days of the operation "Spring Shield" were able to achieve total superiority in the air over the obsolete strike aircraft of the Syrian Air Force.

    In addition to the standard set of words, Mr. Damantsev's ilk and glitches began. Where did he see total superiority? Probably yesterday in Moscow in the company of Erdoganov’s assistants
    1. Levin 6 March 2020 06: 06 New
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      Quote: Amateur
      total superiority

      He would say that to the bearded monkeys from Idlib, so they would be surprised bully
    2. Raymym bek 7 March 2020 12: 45 New
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      Admins send warnings for such comments. There, I “caught” a warning for an article by one author: I wrote that apparently the author was glucan. Although I did not understand: it was really a violation or personal hostility was. Here, all around call each other (name-calling) whatever they want, but I flew wassat
      1. Amateur 7 March 2020 13: 11 New
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        Although I did not understand: it was really a violation or personal hostility was.

        On VO warnings are given from the personal preferences of the duty administrator. I can’t understand the logic. The title of the novel about Nastasya Filipovna is simply deleted. For the quote quoted by the American president about a certain somos, I got a ban. Some article authors are generally untouchable. About 15000 points were scored for criticizing one author per night. in general as in the saying
        What I want, then I turn
        . The main thing is that you don’t fall into grandmas. In general, all the hardships and deprivations of military service must be endured steadily.
      2. Artavazdych 7 March 2020 22: 57 New
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        Yeah, it's selective. I got a first warning - Macron called it a five-letter word from criminal terminology. The second is for S. Lavrov’s quote “Morons ...” In the second word he printed 2 letters.
    3. Mitroha 7 March 2020 15: 53 New
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      Where did he see total superiority?

      Moreover, according to the author, they are shot down by missiles NOT entering Syrian airspace, but at the same time there is a total superiority from somewhere. And how will the new radars allow to “land” the Turks who are not included in the airspace of Syria? Radar "Cat-bayun"? The secret development of our scientists.
      Eugene, you somehow need to work on yourself.
  2. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 05: 55 New
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    To this day, the Syrian Air Force combat units are armed with one and a half to two dozen front-line fighters of the MiG-23MF / ML family, which can be upgraded to multifunction versions of the MiG-23-98 as soon as possible
    They cannot, because now there is not the slightest sense in it. no Fighters built in the early 80s almost exhausted their resources. The article itself is another "pulling an owl on a globe." negative
    1. Ka-52 6 March 2020 07: 01 New
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      Fighters built in the early 80s almost exhausted their resources

      the concept of "resource" always refers to something specifically: a glider, an engine, units, hydraulics, etc. Even if we take just hydraulics, then there is a whole bunch of pumps, torque converters, turbopump installations and EPS. Everything has different service lives, scheduled maintenance periods, and more. A fighter alone cannot "work out a resource." And it turns out like in the Comedy Club (about a pharmacy in a distant Dagestan village):
      - I want to buy medicine!
      “What are you sick of?” Serdze?
      - net
      - the head?
      - net.
      - leg?
      - net
      - hand?
      - net
      - and what is sick?
      - father
      1. nickgv 6 March 2020 09: 52 New
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        No one speaks of a complete “rearmament,” but to take 4 pieces to begin with, and there it will be seen.
        1. SARANCHA1976 6 March 2020 20: 20 New
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          Knowing our current shock pace at the enterprises, this gimp will drag on so much that it will no longer be useful to anyone
      2. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 10: 11 New
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        Quote: Ka-52
        the concept of "resource" always refers to something specifically: a glider, an engine, units, hydraulics, etc.

        Thank you for correcting! I am glad that there are real men on the site who are always ready to help a stupid woman!
        Quote: Ka-52
        And it turns out like in the Comedy Club (about a pharmacy in a distant Dagestan village)

        I am very glad that you understand not only aviation, but also a connoisseur of the repertoire of the highly intelligent “Comedy Club”. On the eve of Women's Day, with full confidence we can say that your qualities such as prudence, magnanimity, composure and rare intelligence, certainly make you a real "commander of a ship"! good
        1. Ka-52 6 March 2020 10: 32 New
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          it’s safe to say that your qualities such as judgment, generosity, composure and rare intelligence

          don't take my half-remark-half-definition so close to my heart. Why are you and Sergey reacting so sharply to everything? Why this blatant sarcasm? Do not take an example from me (the old grumble) - be more restrained and softer love Happy holiday! )
          1. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 10: 35 New
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            Quote: Ka-52
            don't take my half-remark-half-definition so close to my heart. Why are you and Sergey reacting so sharply to everything?

            I am absolutely sincerely grateful to you for clarification! Thanks for a flower! smile
        2. fa2998 6 March 2020 17: 29 New
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          Olga, bravo! Happy New Year! love love
      3. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 04 New
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        I believe that the 23rd was a normal machine, with childhood illnesses, but if it had not been for the collapse of the Union, it would have been brought to "mind." Syrian MiGs need to be sorted out how big the development of the resource is and by what specific positions. If modernization is really possible, then why not carry it out. 23rd after all, and in other countries are still available, even in storage. If Syria shows a positive result, others may want to.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 17: 41 New
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          Quote: TermNachTER
          I believe that the 23rd was a normal machine, with childhood illnesses, but if it had not been for the collapse of the Union, it would have been brought to "mind."

          what for? In the second half of the 80s there were already 4th generation aircraft and they were designing the fifth
          1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 47 New
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            There are no extra planes - you can sell it to someone, you can put it in storage. Su - 15 how many years have flown?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 17: 50 New
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              Quote: TermNachTER
              There are no extra planes

              Money too. And the big question is which is better - to invest in the modernization of, frankly, far from shiny machine or to increase the purchase of modern aircraft for the same money
              1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 57 New
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                The car was complicated, but it could be brought to "mind." The F-16 mattresses still fly, although they are with the 23rd and are of the same age, and from the same weight category.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 18: 01 New
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                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  The F-16 mattresses still fly, although they are with the 23rd and are of the same age, and from the same weight category.

                  Is it ten years of difference at the beginning of operation - peers? Mig went to the army at 69, F-at 79. F-16 is much better, it would even be strange to argue
                  1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 18: 27 New
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                    Now yes, but how was he better in the 79th?
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 11: 13 New
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                      Yes, almost everyone. The F-16 had superiority in angles of attack, in thrust-weight ratio, in combat load, and in capabilities of avionics
                      1. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 12: 12 New
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                        Go to the forums of the balancer, there is a lot to say on this issue. But two points are interesting. The statement of the Dutch pilot, who during the service flew on F-16, and then in Angola as a MiG mercenary - 23. So, he calls the 23rd only one drawback - poor visibility from the cockpit, in all other respects he considers the MiG to be better . And the Jew who fought with the MiGs - his opinion is close to the Dutchman, although there are some variations.
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 14: 00 New
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                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        But two points are interesting.

                        let's watch
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        the statement of the Dutch pilot, who during the service flew on F-16, and then in Angola as a MiG mercenary - 23. So, he calls the 23rd only one drawback - poor visibility from the cockpit, in all other respects he considers the MiG to be better .

                        Give a link to the source? :))) Not a foreign wiki, by any chance?
                        The Dutch pilot Leon Van Maurer, who had more than 1200 hours flying F-16s, flew against MiG-23ML Flogger-Gs from air bases in Germany and the US as part of NATO's aerial mock combat training with Soviet equipment. He concluded that the MiG-23ML has superiority on the vertical plane over early F-16 variants, is just slightly inferior to the F-16A on the horizontal plane, and has superior BVR capability.

                        But actually it translates as
                        Danish pilot Leon Van Maurer, with over 1200 flying hours on the F-16, flew against the MiG-23ML from bases in Germany and the United States as part of combat training with Soviet equipment (aircraft).
                        He concluded that the MiG-23ML has vertical superiority over the early F-16 variants, is slightly inferior to the F-16A in horizontal maneuvering and superior to DVB.

                        At the same time, the MiG-23ML is compared, which were very different from the earlier versions (you and I are actually talking about 1974). And the superiority in DVB is because the F-16A did not carry medium-range missiles at that time.
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        And the Jew who fought with the MiGs - his opinion is close to the Dutchman, although there are some variations.

                        Again, I will ask for the source. Because yes, this (with a stretch) could be said by a man flying on an F-16A against the MiG-23MLD, but the latter should already be compared with the F-16S / D - here they are the same age, both born in 1984
                      3. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 14: 26 New
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                        Actually, it said Angola.
                      4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 14: 29 New
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                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        Actually, it said Angola.

                        Well, on the forums it’s often that Angola, that Germany is monoenergetic. However, I seem to have found :)))
                        The Dutch Air Force pilot, Mr. Retired Leon Van Maurer (total flying time of more than 3000 hours, of which 1200 hours on the F-16) claimed that the MiG-23MLD had "overwhelming superiority over the F-16A on the verticals and in no way inferior to this aircraft in turns. "

                        As one would expect - MLD is against version A. At the same time, the primary source is ... an article by Vladimir Ilyin (A&V - 2000). This is what I found offhand
                      5. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 14: 41 New
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                        He talks about his personal impressions of these machines, and not about some paper TTX. And there is a link there to some Western publication. And we are talking about a hypothetical refinement of the MiG - 23 in the modern version. I think that with a focus on modern technology, this new 23rd will have approximately the same superiority, and maybe more.
                      6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 16: 47 New
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                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        He talks about his personal impressions of these machines, and not about some paper TTX.

                        Only now you do not know what he is saying. In order to know, one must still study the source, the text of what was said. And yes, there are replicas against the MiG-23 from foreign pilots.
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        And we are talking about a hypothetical refinement of the MiG - 23 in the modern version.

                        Yes, no chance. Without increasing the mass of avionics and so on, do not modify it, but with an increase in maneuverability, it will slide into nothing. The cost will be high, but the updated miserable planes will serve, since they are old shamelessly.
                      7. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 18: 03 New
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                        Well, the engine can be delivered from the latter, for example, Klimovsky RD - 33, which is much better in all respects. And with it, and all the performance characteristics of the aircraft will grow.
                      8. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 March 2020 14: 37 New
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                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        Well, the engine can be delivered from the latter, for example, Klimovsky RD - 33, which is much better in all respects.

                        well yes. True, I’m unlikely to understand that 8300 kgs on afterburner is better than 13, but you probably know better :))))))
                      9. TermNachTer 8 March 2020 17: 29 New
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                        Perhaps I was mistaken, but I think that during this time new engines appeared, with the best performance characteristics
      4. Lozovik 7 March 2020 13: 35 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Yes, almost everyone. F-16 had superiority in angles of attack

        How much?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        on thrust-weight ratio

        At what mass, height and speed?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        on combat load, on the capabilities of avionics

        Without a heat finder and the ability to conduct long-range air combat?
      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 14: 26 New
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        Quote: Lozovik
        How much?

        Interest on 7-8.
        Quote: Lozovik
        At what mass, height and speed?

        The counter question is - what does height and speed have to do with the thrust-weight ratio? :))))
        And so - the normal weight of the MiG-23ML is 15 kg, the engine thrust on the afterburner is 600 KN, the thrust on the afterburner, on the F-127,5A it is 16 kg 12 Kn.
        Quote: Lozovik
        Not having a heat finder

        But having an advantage in the radar detection range.
        Quote: Lozovik
        and the ability to conduct long-range air combat?

        And the earlier versions of the MiG-23 had the opportunity to conduct a somewhat effective air battle? :)
      6. Lozovik 7 March 2020 15: 18 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Interest on 7-8.

        And in degrees?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The counter question is - what does height and speed have to do with the thrust-weight ratio? :))))

        When the speed and altitude changes, the engine thrust changes.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And so - the normal weight of the MiG-23ML is 15 kg

        What is the "normal mass"?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        F-16A - 12 852 kg 129,4 Kn.

        The bench thrust of the F100-PW-200 engine is 10,8 tf.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        But having an advantage in the radar detection range.

        Does AN / APG-66 have an advantage over Sapphire-23ML? And how much?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And the earlier versions of the MiG-23 had the opportunity to conduct a somewhat effective air battle? :)

        What modifications are considered early? What is and how is the "effectiveness" of air combat measured?
      7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 16: 42 New
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        Quote: Lozovik
        And in degrees?

        26 and 28
        Quote: Lozovik
        When the speed and altitude changes, the engine thrust changes.

        Well, tell me at what altitudes and speeds the thrust of the F-16 engine loses in the MiG-23 rubbish, so as to compensate for the almost one and a half mass difference :))))
        Quote: Lozovik
        What is the "normal mass"?

        You do not know the term "normal take-off mass"? Then it’s clear where this city of questions comes from, but maybe you yourself will do a little self-education?
        Quote: Lozovik
        The bench thrust of the F100-PW-200 engine is 10,8 tf.

        If you take the early modifications, then yes. But here's the bad luck - the early MiG-23 has a thrust of 10 tf. Modification M 1972, however, had 12,5 kgf, but if you compare it like this (the early F-16A with the MiG-23M, then you still have a greater thrust-weight gain for the American (he has a normal take-off weight of 11 against 467 for the MiG- 15M)
        Quote: Lozovik
        Does AN / APG-66 have an advantage over Sapphire-23ML? And how much?

        Sapphire-23D-III on the MiG-23M
        Quote: Lozovik
        What modifications are considered early?

        We are generally talking about 1974. I believe that such an expert as you can easily determine which modifications of the MiG-23 at that time took place.
        Quote: Lozovik
        What is and how is the "effectiveness" of air combat measured?

        In the number of aircraft shot down in real combat, and in the probabilities of hitting a target in theoretical reasoning
      8. Lozovik 7 March 2020 18: 42 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        28

        We open the manual


        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        26

        Again by. For MiG-23, equipped with a system of limiting the angle of attack, αdop. = 28 °.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Well, tell me at what altitudes and speeds the thrust of the F-16 engine loses in the MiG-23 rubbish, so as to compensate for the almost one and a half mass difference :))))

        You don’t tell me the mass when starting a melee?

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        You do not know the term "normal take-off mass"? Then it’s clear where this city of questions comes from, but maybe you yourself will do a little self-education?

        For a fighter, such a term does not exist. The RLE shows the estimated mass.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        If you take the early modifications, then yes. But here's the bad luck - the early MiG-23 has a thrust of 10 tf.

        So R-27F-300 development of the first half of the 60s.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The M 1972 modification, however, had 12,5 kgf, but if you compare it like this (the early F-16A with the MiG-23M, then you still have the thrust-weight gain over the American (he has a normal take-off weight of 11 against 467 for the MiG- 15M)

        Again, incomprehensible masses. And in general, what is the point of comparison? The thrust-to-weight ratio does not directly express maneuverability characteristics.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Sapphire-23D-III on the MiG-23M

        What's the point? If
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        We are generally talking about 1974.

        then on YF-16 there is no RLPK.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In the number of aircraft shot down in real combat, and in the probabilities of hitting a target in theoretical reasoning

        Business then, set the initial battle conditions and calculate according to the established methodology.
      9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 21: 24 New
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        Quote: Lozovik
        We open the manual

        leadership of what? :))))
        Quote: Lozovik
        Again by. For MiG-23, equipped with a system of limiting the angle of attack, αdop. = 28 °.

        In 1974? :))))
        Quote: Lozovik
        You don’t tell me the mass when starting a melee?

        I gave you the normal take-off mass of the aircraft. And you should have known that the mass of the aircraft when starting a melee depends on the mass of factors and the specific combat situation.
        Quote: Lozovik
        For a fighter, such a term does not exist. The RLE shows the estimated mass.

        The RLE also does not indicate that the Earth is round, from which it does not follow that the round Earth does not exist.
        Quote: Lozovik
        So R-27F-300 development of the first half of the 60s.

        So what? Does this somehow help the MiG-23 early series in the battle with the F-16?
        Quote: Lozovik
        Again, incomprehensible masses. And in general, what is the point of comparison? The thrust-to-weight ratio does not directly express maneuverability characteristics.

        It's five! Sorry, but I consider the further discussion counterproductive. If thrust-to-weight ratio means nothing to you in comparing fighters, then what can I talk about with you? Firstly, you distort, because I talked about thrust-weight ratio in general, and not about its connection with maneuverability And secondly, thrust-weight ratio has a direct impact on energy maneuverability, so ...
      10. Lozovik 8 March 2020 16: 48 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        leadership of what? :))))

        Flight Manual F-16A / B Block 10, SECTION 1 - DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION.

        Before the heap, the restrictions of ny on α. I don’t expect understanding, maybe someone else will be interested.


        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In 1974? :))))

        RLE 23-11M aircraft to help. Section 2 operational limitations.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        I gave you the normal take-off mass of the aircraft. And you should have known that the mass of the aircraft when starting a melee depends on the mass of factors and the specific combat situation.

        In this case, give a definition of your term and calculation for the corresponding version of the pendants.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        So what? Does this somehow help the MiG-23 early series in the battle with the F-16?

        By the time the F-16 was adopted for service, these aircraft were transferred to the VVAUL.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It's five! Sorry, but I consider the further discussion counterproductive. If thrust-to-weight ratio means nothing to you in comparing fighters, then what can I talk about with you? Firstly, you distort, because I talked about thrust-weight ratio in general, and not about its connection with maneuverability And secondly, thrust-weight ratio has a direct impact on energy maneuverability, so ...

        Your reasoning is rather primitive. For example, Vy depends on the speed, weight and excess thrust at a given speed, which, in turn, depends on P and X, varying with different configurations, H, V ... In the case of the MiG-23, due to the design features in the calculation of great importance is the change in inductance.
  3. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 14: 34 New
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    And the Jews themselves said that if the “flogger” shifted the planes to the maximum sweep and cut the fast and the furious, it was useless to chase after him - this was said by the pilot who flew on F-15, the 16th there was nothing to do there. He also claimed that the General Dynamics company significantly overestimated passport data, compared to real ones.
  4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 16: 43 New
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    Quote: TermNachTER
    And the Jews themselves said that if the “flogger” shifted the planes to the maximum sweep and cut the fast and the furious, chasing him is useless

    Yes. But in what place of air combat does this give the MiG-23 an advantage?
  5. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 18: 06 New
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    In the case when it is necessary to abruptly exit the battle. Fight and Run Tactics.
  6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 March 2020 14: 35 New
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    Quote: TermNachTER
    In the case when it is necessary to abruptly exit the battle.

    And in order to abruptly exit the battle, one must gain this very speed. And we again return to the issue of thrust-weight ratio ...
    Quote: TermNachTER
    Fight and Run Tactics.

    Yes, under it, in fact, the MiG-23 was created. But this is bad luck - the whole practice of its application testified that nobody canceled the BVB and, moreover, it remains the main form of air combat ...
  7. TermNachTer 8 March 2020 17: 31 New
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    Thus, you confirm that it is not a plane that is bad, but that it was simply used incorrectly. For any job you need the right tool.
  • user 7 March 2020 08: 51 New
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    What for?


    Money and money again. In this theater of operations and not only in this

    4th generation aircraft and with might and main designed the fifth


    such aircraft are very rare. And with the modernization of the MiG23 ML it can even compete with the F-16, possibly even with the 70 series, it all depends on the category of modernization.
  • Odysseus 7 March 2020 22: 59 New
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    Quote: TermNachTER
    I think that the 23rd was a normal machine, with childhood diseases, but if it had not been for the collapse of the Union, it would have been brought to "mind"

    He was brought back in the early 80s. Mig-23ML, MLD, P were good fighters. The problem with the Mig-23 is that it has been driven to mind for too long, resulting in the appearance of its best modifications almost coinciding with the appearance of 4-generation aircraft. Which led to the fact that it very quickly became obsolete, and then, perestroika-market economy, collapse, and it was not up to him. Naturally, when the question of survival came up, the Air Force chose to keep the MiG-29,31, Su-27. This predetermined the end of the MiG-23.
    And export modifications did not go even in the 90s. For poor countries, the MiG-21 is preferable, the rich are 4-generation aircraft.
    Quote: TermNachTER
    If modernization is really possible, then why not carry it out. 23rd after all, and in other countries are still available, even in storage.

    You seem to have flown from a time machine. wink
    Alas, for a long time there is already nothing, neither the Banner of Labor, nor those parts, nor the sides on storage (about 12 years ago was the last flying in the Lower). There is absolutely nothing and no one to modernize decisively.
    About 20 years ago this idea still made sense. But, alas, even then it did not pass.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 17: 38 New
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    Quote: Ka-52
    the term "resource" always refers to something specifically

    For an airplane of the 80s, the resource should be close to wear in all respects
    Quote: Ka-52
    glider, engine, units, hydraulics, etc.
    1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 18: 26 New
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      If an airplane has been in a hangar since the late 90s, what problems can there be with a glider?
      1. Elena Zakharova 6 March 2020 20: 07 New
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        Quote: TermNachTER
        What problems can be with the glider?

        Corrosion of metal
        1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 20: 28 New
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          So it is almost all of luminium, what kind of corrosion, especially in the hangar.
          1. Elena Zakharova 6 March 2020 20: 36 New
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            Quote: TermNachTER
            So it is almost all of luminium, what kind of corrosion, especially in the hangar

            Are you serious?
            I need to give you a lecture, tell what chemical corrosion of aluminum is, how dry gas, dust and ordinary water destroy aluminum, including aviation, which is in the hangars?
            1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 21: 07 New
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              I do not argue that almost everything corrodes, but it is a matter of time, sometimes quite long. You want to say that the plane, released in the late 80s, has already "rotted to the bump." And what, no protective coatings were applied before storage? Where does the water in the hangar come from? Provided that it is a hangar and not an open caponier.
              1. Elena Zakharova 6 March 2020 21: 09 New
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                Quote: TermNachTER
                Where does the water in the hangar come from?

                There is water in the atmosphere, even in the desert))
                Oh you ....
                1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 21: 27 New
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                  A protective coating applied to the surface? If the airplane is on the street in the rain or snow, everything is clear. But in the hangar, it is present in negligible amounts.
                  1. Elena Zakharova 6 March 2020 23: 59 New
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                    Quote: TermNachTER
                    in negligible amounts.

                    We are not talking about a couple of years, but about decades ...
                    That there is enough in the atmosphere, and given the fact that there were not observed elementary conditions under the regulation in Syria, due to various circumstances, such modernization is a waste of money.
                    And this is very mildly.
                  2. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 00: 16 New
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                    Actually, in Syria the climate is quite dry. In the desert in the desert, airplanes generally have open planes.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 March 2020 11: 14 New
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      Quote: TermNachTER
      If an airplane has been in a hangar since the late 90s, what problems can there be with a glider?

      and a lot of MiG-23 Syria have been in the hangar since the purchase?
  • Sgan 6 March 2020 21: 45 New
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    And for whose money is Damantsev going to modernize the Syrian Air Force? For your own? Or for the money of Russian state employees?
    1. Lekz 7 March 2020 12: 49 New
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      Not the costs are important here, even if they are yours, but the effect obtained for the money spent. Watch it.
  • Zaurbek 6 March 2020 10: 02 New
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    Now it’s cheaper to capitalize and upgrade the old MiG29s .... fresh gliders only from India, you can probably get inexpensively.
  • Elena Zakharova 6 March 2020 20: 06 New
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    .
    Quote: zyablik.olga
    The article itself is another "pulling an owl on a globe."

    It’s not enough to upgrade, it’s still necessary to retrain the pilots, maintenance staff, plus the modernization of ground infrastructure.
    Costly and ineffective proposal from the author.
  • akarfoxhound 6 March 2020 06: 14 New
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    Oh Zhenek, oh dreamer ... I dug up the ancient information and let's play with the numbers in the habit. The issue of modernization 23x was not closed in the "distant 2000s" but in the distant 90s. Re-deploy factory facilities for modernization with a reserve of 25 years ago, having invested a lot of money for the sake of how much remaining 23x, ??? You know the basic formula "Cost / effectiveness" ??? The boy, bored, crawled into the sandbox and decided to dream up. And what? And suddenly, at the same ones, torn from reality, their eyes will shine, the whitewash will overwhelm and go in front of the foggy eyes of the F-16 adversary packs to fall in the sandbox. Eh !!! A Su-25 would fly to the sky above Prokhorovka, and a dozen machine guns Maxim on Kulikovo Field, and to modernize the T-34 to help rebellious zusuls in aid of the war of liberation .. This is how I prompt "real" topics for heated discussions of "experts" Eugene on the following opuses . And if, yes, if only. laughing
    1. dilukhin 6 March 2020 09: 36 New
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      It’s as if the MiG-21, which is 10 years older, is being completely modernized, and it’s completely knocking down even the F-16. Why not put modern brains on the twenty third?
      https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/t/20193261255-INz6R.html например.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 March 2020 17: 48 New
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        Quote: dilukhin
        It’s as if the MiG-21, which is 10 years older, is being completely modernized, and it’s completely shooting down even the F-16

        Alas, it does not knock down - the statement of India is not confirmed by anything. They even brought photos, but there, it seems, indeed the MiG-21 itself lies.
        Quote: dilukhin
        Why not put modern brains on the twenty third?

        The first MiG-21 Bison (modernized for India) took off in 1998. So with the idea of ​​modernization, the 23rd were 15 years late.
  • Scipio 6 March 2020 06: 24 New
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    Ingeniously, upgrading the late 90s is the key to success! Author, quit smoking or change provider ....
  • Pavel73 6 March 2020 06: 25 New
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    MiG-23 is too late to upgrade. This had to be done earlier, when funds for the creation of the MiG-29 had not yet been spent. And the 23rd could be a good export rival for the F-16. He only had to remove the variable geometry of the wing, which would immediately facilitate him by 1,5 tons, and put a normal cockpit with good visibility.
  • BVS
    BVS 6 March 2020 06: 37 New
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    If, yes, if only ... All these are dreams and dreams
  • Odysseus 6 March 2020 06: 58 New
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    The author’s desire to help the Syrian Air Force is commendable, but the proposal to upgrade the last side of the Mig-23 with an expired resource on which they fly only because there is nothing else with the help of an unrealized project, 20 years ago, looks somehow completely crazy.
    1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 08: 59 New
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      Well, the Turks still have phantoms flying, they are also not young
      1. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 10: 12 New
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        Quote: Uncle Izya
        Well, the Turks still have phantoms flying, they are also not young

        Only RF-4E scouts remained.
        1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 10: 57 New
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          No need to whistle the show was about the Turkish Air Force and Croatia and India are operating the Mig-21
          1. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 11: 34 New
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            Quote: Uncle Izya
            No need to whistle the show was about the Turkish Air Force and Croatia and India are operating the Mig-21

            Well then, do not whistle! no Where did I mention the MiG-21? As for the Turkish Phantoms, can you share the source?
            1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 13: 15 New
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              In service

              Map of operator countries
              Egypt - 29 F-4E, as of 2016 [155]
              Israel - some F-4E, as of 2016 [156]
              Iran - 64 F-4D / E and more than 6 RF-4E, as of 2016 [157]
              Greece - 34 F-4E and 7 RF-4E, as of 2016 [158]
              Republic of Korea - 70 F-4Es and several F-4Ds in storage, as of 2016 [159]
              Turkey - 51 F-4E, as of 2016 [160]
              Japan - 55 F-4E (F-4EJ) and 13 RF-4E (RF-4J), as of 2016 [161]
              In movie
              1. Bongo 6 March 2020 13: 35 New
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                Quote: Uncle Izya
                In service

                Map of operator countries
                Egypt - 29 F-4E, as of 2016 [155]
                Israel - some F-4E, as of 2016 [156]
                Iran - 64 F-4D / E and more than 6 RF-4E, as of 2016 [157]
                Greece - 34 F-4E and 7 RF-4E, as of 2016 [158]
                Republic of Korea - 70 F-4Es and several F-4Ds in storage, as of 2016 [159]
                Turkey - 51 F-4E, as of 2016 [160]
                Japan - 55 F-4E (F-4EJ) and 13 RF-4E (RF-4J), as of 2016 [161]
                In movie

                Wikipedia is a very reliable source, especially as of 2016. good
                1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 13: 38 New
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                  you have the best source a
                  1. Bongo 6 March 2020 13: 45 New
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                    Quote: Uncle Izya
                    you have the best source a

                    Man, why demonstrate incompetence so much? Or you do not know how to use a search engine? Until the first half of 4, the 2019st and 171nd squadrons flew on F-172E, the pilots of which were to be retrained on the F-35A. Due to the well-known events, the delivery of the F-35A to Ankara was refused, and the phantoms in Turkey were canceled. The only type of fighter in the Turkish Air Force is F-16C / D. .
                    1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 13: 48 New
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                      Man, why so incompetent
                      Yes, and you have it in excess))
                      Iran still flies and at the expense of Turkey you did not provide a rebuttal and guesses
                      1. Bongo 6 March 2020 13: 52 New
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                        Quote: Uncle Izya
                        Yes, and you have it in excess))

                        Have you tried to enter my profile? wink
                        Quote: Uncle Izya
                        Iran still flies and at the expense of Turkey you did not provide a rebuttal and guesses

                        Read, maybe this will slightly increase your educational level:
                        https://topwar.ru/165850-alternativnye-varianty-zameny-f-35a-veliki-li-shansy-na-postavku-su-35sk-v-turciju.html

                        https://topwar.ru/165785-istrebitelnaja-aviacija-turcii-v-gody-holodnoj-vojny.html
                      2. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 14: 43 New
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                        What should this tell me?
                        Maybe you’re not arguing about special aircraft. But we argue about phantoms and this closed Turkey topic will not tell you if it is used or not.
                  2. Orakul2000 7 March 2020 03: 21 New
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                    Sergey You are mistaken.
                    Turkey still uses shock Phantoms that we have modernized to them.
                    The model is called the Phantom II F4E 2020 Terminator.
                    F-4E Terminator 2020

                    F-4E-2020 Terminator
                    The latest in a long line of F-4 variants, the Terminators are a batch of Turkish Air Force F-4Es, modernized by Israel on the pattern of the Kurnass 2000. They differ from the existing F-4E airframe in a number of key areas, including new attachment fittings to better handle modern weaponry, stronger wing fold ribs, an updated canopy sill bar, and the replacement of some 20 km of wiring (reducing weight by 750 kg) as well as most hydraulic and pneumatic lines and hoses. [10] A plan to increase the turn-rate and longitudinal stability of the Kurnass / Terminator derivatives through the installation of fuselage strakes over the engine inlets was abandoned after testing, and never saw installation on operational aircraft. [eleven]
                    The most radical changes occurred in the avionics department. All 2020s have been fitted with vastly updated suite, including MFDs (multifunction displays) as standard, and incorporating a number of new technologies, such as the new Kaiser El-OP 976 wide-angle HUD and HOTAS system, high performance Elta EL / M -2032 ISAR-capable high-resolution SAR / GMTI (ground moving target indicator) multi-mode fire control radar (developed for the IAI Lavi), IAIC mission computer, new navigation equipment including GPS / INS connected to mapping mode, dual MIL- STD-1553B databus managing avionics package, Astronautics Central Air Data Computer, new UHF and IFF packages, airborne video tape recorder (AVTR), Elta EL / L-8222 active ECM pod, Mikes (Aselsan) AN / ALQ-178V3 passive embedded SPEWS , and RWR. [10] [12]
                    Additionally, they received AGM-142 Popeye / Have Nap integration, Litening-II targeting pods, and the capability to launch AGM-65D / G Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, GBU-8 HOBOS, GBU-10/12 Paveway II LGBs, general purpose and cluster bombs for air-to-ground missions, while retaining the capability to launch AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. It is also possible to install Pave Spike targeting pods and rocket pods of all sizes. [10] [12]
                    These upgraded F-4 Phantoms are referred to as the F-4E-2020 Terminator. 54 were modernized and they will be in service until at least 2015 and perhaps longer (29 still in use as of 2019.) They first entered service on January 27, 2000 with deliveries to 111 and 171 Filo. [13]

                    With respect.
                    1. Bongo 7 March 2020 03: 29 New
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                      Boris, hello! Thanks for the answer! But I am not mistaken. no All Turkish drums F-4E-2020 Terminator are deposited at Eskisher airbase. Now only RF-4E scouts are used, also upgraded with the help of Israel. Relatively recently, I was preparing a series of publications on the air defense system and Turkish air force, and studied this issue quite deeply. hi
                    2. Orakul2000 7 March 2020 08: 06 New
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                      Sergey, welcome! In fact, if this is so, then I find it very strange. Like a bomber, the Phantom is better than the F-16. Both in carrying capacity and in stability at super low flight speeds, which makes it possible to throw very accurately even ancient, unmodified cast iron. And this is very important, since war is not a cheap thing, and it is very important especially considering the stagnating economy for many years.
                      With respect.
                    3. Bongo 7 March 2020 08: 13 New
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                      Quote: Orakul2000
                      In fact, if this is so, then I find it very strange. Like a bomber, the Phantom is better than the F-16. Both in carrying capacity and in stability at super low flight speeds, which makes it possible to throw very accurately even ancient, unmodified cast iron.

                      It certainly is. yes But it is impossible to extend indefinitely to extend the life of machines whose age is 40 years. Even though the Phantom is a very sturdy machine, its glider life also ends. In addition, it is much simpler and cheaper to operate one type of fighter. F-4E is simple and cheap to operate. After all, your country has long since abandoned the Phantoms, although they could still fly with you too.
    2. akarfoxhound 6 March 2020 15: 04 New
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      Both Croatia and India are "tying" to operate the upgraded MiG-21. The car is good, but it has exhausted itself. You have to negotiate to the end. wink
    3. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 07 New
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      Croatia repaired its 21st - modernized in Odessa, still regret it. They wrote that some of them even could not take off after modernization.
      1. vik669 7 March 2020 16: 59 New
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        MiG-21-93 (1994) - modernization of serial MiG-21bis - even flew in India and ...!
        1. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 17: 56 New
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          As far as I know, in Odessa they did not do such a deep modernization. Simple repair
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Odysseus 6 March 2020 11: 49 New
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    Quote: Uncle Izya
    Well, the Turks still have phantoms flying, they are also not young

    Fly. But they do not propose upgrading them with the help of an unrealized project 20 years ago. Moreover, there are neither production capacities nor corny spare parts for aircraft.
  • Bagatur 6 March 2020 07: 54 New
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    And will Assad pay for it? Whatever they think, money should be considered.
  • V.I.P. 6 March 2020 08: 33 New
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    This is meaningless. By 23, spare parts did not produce anything for decades, and nobody does electronics of the 90s. Well, if you upgrade, then the MiG-29 that the Syrians have at least in the version of UPG / CMT. Well, or give MIG-29 to them, as presented to the Serbs ...
    1. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 09: 18 New
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      Serbs were given and they paid for modernization
    2. donavi49 6 March 2020 09: 47 New
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      MiGi-29s have an extremely bad feature - the high cost of operation.

      Why do not we see MiG-29s in the sky of Syria? Because the warring country simply can not provide repairs, maintenance, and most importantly maintaining the pilots' suitability. Even 30-40 hours of flying time is expensive (it’s better to make 50 hours of flying time for women with Su-22 with this money). Especially with sparks, everything is bad. Probably all MiGs are now mothballed until better times. Therefore, the last appearance of the MiG-29 in the sky, which fell on the photo-video (and everything falls on the photo-video there), is the battles in Jobar and Zamalka. They were used there as attack aircraft / bombers.
      1. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 10: 14 New
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        Quote: donavi49
        MiGi-29s have an extremely bad feature - the high cost of operation.

        MiG-23 is even more expensive and difficult to operate machines.
        1. donavi49 6 March 2020 10: 25 New
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          Well, therefore, we see the Su-22, eLki-39 mainly. Less commonly, the Su-24 was recently delivered. MiGi-23 is even less common - they are likely to be cannibalized + free parts are chosen from the availability in Russia. But these types are not very sorry. But there are plans for the MiG-29, since they do not fly, but are waiting for better times.
          1. zyablik.olga 6 March 2020 10: 33 New
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            Quote: donavi49
            Well, therefore, we see the Su-22, eLki-39 mainly. Less commonly, the Su-24 was recently delivered. MiGi-23 is even less common - they are likely to be cannibalized + free parts are chosen from the availability in Russia.

            The time of the Su-22 (Su-17) and MiG-23 has passed. Although, according to experts from KnaAZ, the Su-17s of the latest modifications were very good and, if desired, could still be operated. Sparks of the Su-17UM3 that made the plant stop flying from Dzemog several years ago. As far as I know, regiments equipped with the MiG-23 in the Russian Air Force disbanded in the mid-90s. To date, all of the MiG-23 have been carved into metal.
            1. Sancho_SP 6 March 2020 11: 16 New
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              You can operate anything. The question of the ratio of costs to results.
            2. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 21: 06 New
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              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EflhxXSGMk
              Here are the best military aircraft. These are small copies.
          2. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 12: 53 New
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            explain what you do not like about the Su-22? a wonderful car, the pilots spoke very warmly (about the latest modifications), by the way, many consider a very terrible omission to stop operating and further development of this pepelats
          3. Uncle Izya 6 March 2020 13: 40 New
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            Belarus sold its momentum-23 mld to Syria
      2. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 12: 55 New
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        because there are few of them, and only, and there are no goals for them, ISIS had no aviation, Turkish f-16s didn’t fly either, but to use them against UAVs is the same as hammering a needle with a sledgehammer
        1. Uncle Izya 7 March 2020 08: 12 New
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          Well done Turks they created their UAVs and gained experience it is a pity that shock UAVs are born for a long time in Russia
          1. Vitaly161 7 March 2020 19: 21 New
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            you were clearly mistaken in the article, it’s not the Turks at all
      3. Uncle Izya 7 March 2020 08: 15 New
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        Indians send their instant 27 for scrapping better they were handed over to the Syrians
        1. donavi49 7 March 2020 09: 56 New
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          Hindus saw Assad in a coffin. Their position is to remove him and the whole family from power and hold general elections.

          True, they saw Erdogan not just in the coffin, but in hell, in the hottest cauldron. For it is a key arms supplier to Pakistan and a new friend of Pakistan.



    3. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 11 New
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      Knowing the thrifty of the USSR, I think spare parts for the 23rd are still in abundance. As I asked a friend of Motor Sich, why didn’t Russia order new engines for the An-12, Il-20, 38? He was surprised - why? In the suburbs, a huge warehouse, crammed under the roof - 100 years is enough if they fly so much.
  • Maks1995 6 March 2020 09: 02 New
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    What happened is floated. What to fantasize now.
  • Jcvai 6 March 2020 09: 22 New
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    Mig-23 needs to be upgraded not to Mig-23-98-3, but, at least, to Su-27SKM ... But here processing the tractor with a file will not help.
  • Ros 56 6 March 2020 10: 27 New
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    If there is an opportunity and meaning, it is possible to equip MiGs, the war will not end tomorrow.
    1. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 13: 01 New
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      there is neither opportunity nor sense, the modernization project is 30 years old at lunch, a new project to cut, time and fabulous money, as well as unit production, there are two dozen of those MiGs
  • Jarserge 6 March 2020 10: 54 New
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    A few attacks “from around the corner”, I will not hide effective ones, this is not a total superiority, but inertness and without initiative of the Syrian Air Force command, maybe even illiteracy. Although it’s hard to judge because of a lack of special information and to rush to conclusions as the author of this publication, in the style of “everything is gone, but I know the sword is a treasure trove and universal destroyer” give only money, it’s not worth it.
    1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 13 New
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      Initiative is certainly good when everything is in abundance. And when the country is fighting the eighth year, count against the whole world, then here it’s somehow not very.
      1. Jarserge 6 March 2020 17: 15 New
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        Just in such a situation, she and the place of initiative
        1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 17: 45 New
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          Having a small number of extremely "ushatannye" aircraft, unable to use long-range missiles. Sound your initiatives?
          1. Jarserge 6 March 2020 19: 42 New
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            Sound the number and "ushatnosti" "aircraft". Their capabilities in the use of missile weapons. As well as the possibility of air defense of Syria. And you yourself will understand everything.
            1. TermNachTer 6 March 2020 20: 42 New
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              The data is of course quite “vague”, but about 40 MiG-29s, not the latest modifications, varying degrees of ushatki, and not a good life, are used as information security. Su - 24, about 15 aircraft, again "not new", most likely from the presence of the Air Force of the Russian Federation, not having those nishtyakov that Su - 24M and especially M2. The number of MiG - 21 and Su - 22 is indicated differently, but they are not visible in the sky. And finally, again, not from a good life, the unknown number of L-29s is used as bombers. With this museum you offer to proactively attack the Turks. Only now the R - 77 missile was handed over to the Syrians, which is even a bit better than that of the Turks.
              1. Vitaly161 7 March 2020 19: 24 New
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                MiGs are not used as IS, do not need it here, the cast iron throws something that either will do anything in aerial combat, or specialized cars
                1. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 19: 49 New
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                  Not used, but if you really need it, they dragged 4 to 500 kg in banderland. Accuracy is of course no, but if by area, then the accuracy is 2 - 3 km. fine.
                  1. Vitaly161 7 March 2020 19: 52 New
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                    if it’s really necessary, they’ll drop off turntables, which sounds even more absurd, and it's about Syria, not Banderastan
                    1. TermNachTer 7 March 2020 19: 54 New
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                      The thing is that if you really need to, you can use the MiG - 29 as a bomber.
  • Sancho_SP 6 March 2020 11: 00 New
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    A serious rebuff can be given by the pair transferred to the Su-30 / Su-35, under the pseudonym of which at least all the air wings of the Russian Federation can operate.
  • ZAPOROZHAN. 1959 6 March 2020 11: 40 New
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    The complete incompetence of our military commanders. And yet, where is our terrible weapon with which we scare the whole world?
    1. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 13: 03 New
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      op, the new Kutuzov drew, well, let's teach our General Staff to fight, the combat sofa, do not forget
    2. Jarserge 6 March 2020 17: 17 New
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      Well then, the advisers at the headquarters of the Syrian Air Force. And then you general Field Marshal waved something ... The main thing is not to remove anyone from their posts.
  • Empire soldier 6 March 2020 11: 53 New
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    Ugh, again Zhenya Damantsev ... Well, why can’t the author be printed at the top, near the headline? Why make people mess up on this?
    1. dzvero 6 March 2020 13: 14 New
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      Well, why can’t the author print at the top, near the heading?

      Part of the intrigue - guess who wrote smile It promotes observation, memory and critical thinking. smile
      1. Titus 6 March 2020 17: 45 New
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        Well, the regulars determine after a few paragraphs, I determine the work of Damantsev with a high degree of probability without having read to the end
  • ertu 6 March 2020 11: 56 New
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    What do we have in the bottom line from yesterday's talks? The main result, in my opinion, is that the Turks do not leave Syria and turn Idlib into a bridgehead. This is not the limit of Erdogan's dreams, but in general and in general he has achieved his goal.
    1. iouris 6 March 2020 12: 43 New
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      Quote: ertu
      What do we have in the bottom line from yesterday's talks?

      The topic of discussion is completely different. Have you not noticed?
  • seacap 6 March 2020 12: 28 New
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    2-3 aircraft of the CAA Air Force were shot down, and how many total flights were made? How many UAV UAL shot down? knowing and possessing complete information, at least about these figures, we can talk about total superiority. But the fact that even the minimal AAA air defense forces actually fulfilled their task of creating a cover for the troops, suggests the opposite.
    1. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 13: 06 New
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      but why take it?) the hamster will eat and will not choke, the main thing is to catch up more and print the header more beautifully, the CAA Air Force worked after landing Su and after landing Albatross, they have such a job
  • Dart 6 March 2020 12: 41 New
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    how am I tired of reading like this ... five sentences, two sheets of text .... Tolstoy reads it easily, but such a presentation of technical information is tiring, it is easy to go astray, although the techie himself is not used to extensive manuals and English.
  • iouris 6 March 2020 12: 42 New
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    Unconvincing. The most likely result of this approach is throwing a lot of money down the drain. Question: in whose sail does this wind blow? The justification of the feasibility of upgrading the MiG-23ml should be carried out by specialized research organizations. Syrian fighter aircraft will not intercept aircraft in Turkish airspace for very understandable political reasons. Reasoning regarding the ESR of the Syrian Su-24 and the flaws of the Orion radar is also inappropriate, because the conclusions are trivial. The Syrian Air Force bombers were shot down for a completely different reason: the military operations were poorly organized, military advisers and aviation commanders did not foresee and forgot that the Turks use this and NATO membership and periodically bring down "partner" planes in Syrian airspace. This means that the Russians in Syria harness for a long time ... and then they don’t go anywhere. This tool has a name and surname, but it was "forgotten" in the Russian Ministry of Defense.
    1. Local from the Volga 6 March 2020 14: 08 New
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      Surovikin?))
  • maidan.izrailovich 6 March 2020 12: 44 New
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    And it was impossible to make this modernization 2-3 years ago? Such aircraft would be useful not only against the Turks, but also the "God-chosen" could be driven.
    1. Vitaly161 6 March 2020 13: 13 New
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      the relevance of such modernization was 0 already 20 years ago, not like 2-3 years ago, the project of the 90s
    2. iouris 6 March 2020 13: 42 New
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      Quote: maidan.izrailovich
      And it was impossible to make this modernization 2-3 years ago?

      Probably, it would be more correct to go back “about 20 ... 30” ago.
  • Pavel57 6 March 2020 12: 53 New
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    Strange article. MiG-23-98 was relevant 20 years ago.
  • ZaharoFF 6 March 2020 12: 55 New
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    Unfortunately, neither from the expert circles at the Russian defense department, nor from high-ranking representatives of MiG RSK JSC and Fazotron-NIIR Corporation, there were no initiatives to provide the Syrian Air Force with such a “package” of military-technical support

    Maybe there is still a reason why such initiatives have not been received. And so the article is like fortune-telling on coffee grounds.
  • dzvero 6 March 2020 13: 22 New
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    Instead of upgrading the MIG-23, it will be better to put the Su-39 into production. Attack helicopters are good, but attack aircraft have a lot to do.
  • Evgeny Ivanov_5 6 March 2020 13: 35 New
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    In the work of certain organizations there is the term "distraction to an unusable object." Here is an article very similar to this
    1. Pavel57 7 March 2020 12: 13 New
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      Even the distraction to the "unusable object" is strange. For a long time there is information about the armament of the Syrian Mig-29 missiles R-77.
  • Sarkazm 6 March 2020 14: 12 New
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    Was exactly like that
  • Sarkazm 6 March 2020 14: 12 New
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    There was exactly the same version of the modernization of the MiG-21 in the 90s, it is more appropriate, the MiG-23 can be forgotten and not sweated. The author, of course, gave a surplus when speaking about the possibility of confronting the MiG-23-93, over the past decades the F-16 has undergone as many upgrades as the Su-27 to the Su-35.
    It can be seen it was in the evening, there was nothing to do.
  • 1970mk 6 March 2020 14: 24 New
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    It touched ... it didn’t hurt .... The S-300, with an active attack on a country that has this system, remains the Scarecrow that did not bring down any real goals.
  • mmaxx 6 March 2020 14: 32 New
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    You can only say: a unique flying iron.
    Let the author answer: can this aircraft be recaptured? It has been discontinued since 25 years. That is, even spare parts are not manufactured. Why shove all sorts of nishtyaki there if he can’t get up into the air tomorrow?
    So I forgot about sclerosis which resource of the wing mechanism. He is ridiculously small. Who will do and change all this titanium?
  • EDWARD 6 March 2020 15: 50 New
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    article from the series “if grandmothers”, etc. it's funny.
  • seacap 6 March 2020 17: 12 New
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    Quote: maidan.izrailovich
    And it was impossible to make this modernization 2-3 years ago?

    Yak-3 or I-16 in general for the "stealth" pass, and technologically easy to organize production on the spot, cheap and cheerful, let's start?
  • fa2998 6 March 2020 17: 38 New
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    Quote: zyablik.olga
    "pulling an owl on a globe."

    It’s a very correct conclusion! To revive the program for 10-15 aircraft? And who will pay, the Russian taxpayer? And how can a 3-generation aircraft, from the past, pile on a 4+ aircraft, which is constantly being improved.? And how to retrain pilots? Not too much? no hi hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Akuzenka 6 March 2020 20: 39 New
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    to this day, the armament of the Syrian Air Force combat units to this day consists of one and a half to two dozen front-line fighters of the MiG-23MF / ML family, which can be upgraded to multifunction versions of the MiG-23-98 as soon as possible
    "Oh, if, oh if, it weren’t life, but a song would be" !!!!
  • Ovrag 6 March 2020 21: 36 New
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    What a senility.
    And the point is not even in the crazy idea that instantly with a launch range of 70 km, they will do something successfully there and why, because it will be difficult to shoot at them, they will not shoot at Su24. It's just a logical hole.
    The question is different. The author of the campaign spent his whole life on the couch, since he believes that now. In 2020, it is possible to quickly modernize a fighter of the 70s, according to a modernization plan developed in 98 ...
    How to look for companies of performers (the original subcontractors for the project have long died / restructured or completely changed production capacities), where to look for the component base for solutions of the mid 90s, which in principle will adapt the project to modern production requirements, and in the end where you can take it out of nowhere people who understand what and how to do? Call the army of retirees?
    And yes. As soon as possible. A year or so, a prototype can roll out in 3-4. Then the tests. Debugging. Reception You look by 2030 they will be in time when the last boards in Syria are rotten.
  • TatarinSSSR 6 March 2020 21: 47 New
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    Maybe not a lot off topic, but the MiG-23 is a very beautiful plane. In my childhood I had a prefabricated model, glued and painted. Wings are shifted, beautiful, swift, real fighter. It is a pity, now such forms do not ....
    1. sergevl 7 March 2020 01: 28 New
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      The modernization of the 20 Syrian twins is technically not difficult.
      The question is that in the war-ravaged Syria there is no opportunity to finance even the current repair of the aircraft fleet in the Russian arz
      Not to mention the modernization program. Yes, and it is not necessary for the Russian oligarchs, domineering thieves, too, is not necessary. We do not forget that Russia in Syria ensures the security of Israel by preventing the IRGC and Iran’s cruise missiles on the Mediterranean coast. Aircraft brought junk and repainted rubbish without storage, and transferred to the Syrians without any illusions about the fate of cars and pilots.
      We do not forget that Israel did not impose any sanctions for the Crimea, and Israel couldn’t bring its army into Syria. Therefore, it was decided that the Syrians themselves should kill a friend without the participation of Israel. Plus control of the population which is always relevant.
      1. sergevl 7 March 2020 01: 37 New
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        Now about the 23rd instant.
        The main problem with the glider is the cracks in the center section tank combined with the hinges of the inverter.
        The problem is basically unsolvable. We fly to the cracks, and then to the broom.
        The second trouble with which the disgusting corkscrew characteristics 23 and the restrictions because of them on the angles of attack, other other, suffered for a very long time in the LII. Within the framework of the scheme that was chosen for 23, it was impossible to improve them. And one engine is prone to surging (or whether it’s still some kind of trouble), but the Soviet air force generals and these are not parquet figures, but pilots with a big touch with great enthusiasm refused MIG23 and MIG27 in favor of MIG29 and SU27.
  • Pavel57 7 March 2020 09: 56 New
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    The Germans decommissioned the modification of the F-4-analog MiG -23-98 a year or 2 ago ..
    1. FCSO 7 March 2020 12: 31 New
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      Do not talk nonsense. German Air Force disarmed their latest F-4F on June 29, 2013!
  • FCSO 7 March 2020 12: 12 New
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    The author writes utter nonsense!
    Quote:
    As for the optional filling of this modernization program, it provided for the re-equipment of the standard MiG-23ML / MF with perspective on-board Moskit-23 radars based on waveguide-slot antenna arrays (instead of the early Sapphire-23ML / RP-23ML, presented by the Cassegrain antenna ) with increased energy potential of the transmission path, as well as hardware and software adaptation of the weapons control systems (SUV) of the MiG-23ML family of fighters to the use of modern medium-range guided air combat missiles RVV-AE ( P-77), equipped with active radar homing type 9B-1348E. The range of "capture" targets with an effective reflective surface (EPR / EOP) of the order of 1,5-2 square meters. m (the F-16C multipurpose fighter with weapons at the nodes of the suspension) for this radar is about 70-75 km in an interference-free environment and 50-55 km in a more difficult jamming environment (when Turkish F-16C crews use EW AN / ALQ containers -131/165).
    End of quote.
    The question is, from what hangover Yevgeny Damantsev decided that the F-16C multi-purpose fighter with weapons on the EPR suspension nodes is about 1,5-2 m? ..
    I recall a phrase from a good Soviet film:
    - Uncle Petya, you -? ..
  • FCSO 7 March 2020 12: 21 New
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    And still in pursuit.
    I’m just wondering how the author is going to place on the medium-range guided missile RVV-AE (R-77), which is attention! - has a diameter of 200 mm, the homing head 9B-1348E in which only the antenna has a diameter of 280 mm. And the flange with which it is mounted by the seeker has an even larger diameter! And it still needs to be covered with a fairing, which has an even larger diameter!
    What are we smoking? ..
    1. Pavel57 7 March 2020 17: 49 New
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      When the R-77 appeared, there was an idea to use it on the MiG-23MLD drill. But to launch a rocket only at 20 km without a radar correction channel seemed unpromising. And to establish a radio correction channel is unjustified.
  • Vitaly161 7 March 2020 19: 59 New
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    Quote: TermNachTER
    The data is of course very “vague”, but about 40 MiG-29s, not the latest modifications, varying degrees of ushatki, and not a good life, are used as information security.


    I just corrected you in this, I know perfectly well that any aircraft with sufficient carrying capacity is capable of throwing cast iron
  • Alex Russia 7 March 2020 20: 57 New
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    All means are good when this leads to an increase in the number of dead Turkic-Basurman. And on air bombs, one must write, like beautiful slogans, "With love for Erdogash"
  • Gosha Smirnov 8 March 2020 01: 47 New
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    even seasoned with truffle ..er.myo will not become yummy, but will remain a truffle in ..er.me.Mig23 as it was an INITIALLY weak machine and very difficult to pilot, it remains so that it would not be pushed from the electronics. Moreover, that there’s nothing sensible to put into it - the eternal wretchedness of the Breo of the USSR / RF makes itself known more and more over the years.
    1. Pavel57 8 March 2020 13: 51 New
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      MiG-23MLD and MiG-23P were at the level of foreign analogues of their time, and in some ways they excelled. So do not talk about eternal wretchedness, etc.
      1. Gosha Smirnov 8 March 2020 22: 39 New
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        At the level of which analogues? Maybe at the level of anal? All its superiority is the ball price. Everything else, such as service, flight stability, etc., is just awful. Technicians and pilots hung themselves. The same flying coffin, like the American hundredth series of efok .
        1. Pavel57 8 March 2020 23: 50 New
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          Missiles are better than Americans. Maneuverability is not worse. The radar can operate on a low-flying target. At the MLD / P level, all other problems have been resolved. The price is also important. Examples of successful combat use are available.
          1. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 00: 51 New
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            an airplane is a whole complex, and missiles, etc., are just an addition and part of it. Not at all the main one. And the same types of missiles are used on different complexes .. And the same radar of Mig23mld was easily suppressed by the reb, which in times its character was reduced and in range inferior to f15-16 by 15-20 km and on the background of the earth also saw no more than 6 targets. Maneuverability is worse than even in the mig.21. For f16 there is nothing to talk about at all. It is only better to accelerate in the mig23 compared to f16 ..
            1. Pavel57 9 March 2020 01: 03 New
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              What are 6 goals? Only AWG-6 at F -9 could accompany 14 targets. Sparrow 7F did not work on the background of the earth. And the P-24 and even the P-23 are easy. And the MiG-23ML surpassed the F-4, and could withstand the next-generation aircraft F-15, F-16. Moreover, at first the F-16 did not have medium-range missiles.
          2. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 00: 57 New
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            There would still be no examples of its successful combat use! In FIG then would you need it at all? Would you leave me moment 21 (I really liked the pilots, although it was also not ice for accidents and breakdowns). And I wrote that moment 23 was weak and too difficult machine to control, etc. in general, that. I believe that kb moment after moment 21- and 25/31 makes almost one slag. It is high time to combine it with kb su.
            1. Pavel57 9 March 2020 01: 06 New
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              This is your private opinion.
              1. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 01: 08 New
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                Yes, for some reason, it coincides with many pilots with whom I talked for a moment23 on this subject
                1. Pavel57 9 March 2020 01: 11 New
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                  We have a different social circle. The problem of the MiG-23 was that it was brought to a normal level at the end of its active operation. But, if not for the well-known thoughtless reduction of the Air Force, he would still be in the ranks for a long time. And so until the end of the 90s there was the last regiment in Kursk.
                  1. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 01: 21 New
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                    At one time in the early 90's, I studied before reorganization in the Kharkov Aviation, then transferred. But that wasn’t the point. We were still migrating 23ub. And they were already massively reduced in combat units because of problems with spare parts and because of the difficulty of piloting, NOBODY of cadets and young officers without an instructor, even with admissible raids, were not allowed, although they themselves could fly on blink21 and l39. By state of emergency, instant23 was tearing over the entire fleet of available machines taken together.
                    1. Pavel57 9 March 2020 01: 37 New
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                      You interfere all in one pile. Qualification of pilots, spare parts, performance characteristics. Once again, the MiG23 at the level of modifications ML / MLD / P was quite at the level of Western classmates, and in some ways surpassed them. But bringing the aircraft to a good level was made late, when aircraft of the 4th generation F-15 and 16 began to appear. The MiG-23 could resist them, but other aircraft, the MiG-29 and Su-27 with the R-27 missile, already provided superiority.
                      1. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 02: 14 New
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                        I repeat once again: this type of aircraft is an ONE complex. It cannot be separately considered as a system that either shoots well, for example, or flies. Everything in the complex is considered, including its maintenance. And only everything together is determined by its effectiveness .In the beginning. In the 80s, our specialists in Syria, after a series of failures in the air battles with the Jews, gave very clear guidelines and recommendations NOT to get involved in one-on-one fights or without superiority for a moment23 from f15-16.And the new mlds sent to the Syrians improved the situation, but not coordinately. And for some reason you phantom2 pulled it up and it’s not your mess. Although the f4 is a versatile and heavier car and 10 years earlier it was put into service. What then to compare? What modification with which? Further. In November 1972. the third prototype YF-3A-15-MC “Eagle” (S / N 2-71) was flown around, on which it was first installed to the workstation. Its tests on this aircraft began in 0282. For testing the radar, other aircraft were also used, including The 1973th prototype YTF-12A Eagle (S / N 15-71, station in an improved version). On the experimental radars, an air target detection range of up to 0291 km was obtained (probably a bomber against the background of free space in the ZPS). The minimum height of the detected target with a flight speed of more than 160 km / h is from 200 to 6 m, depending on the underlying surface. The number of simultaneously tracked and displayed targets is 15, fired by AIM-10F / M medium-range missiles - 7 target. And this is an experienced radar that was built by a large batch of more than 1 pieces. But it had certain shortcomings. The 1000th went the first modernization.
                      2. Pavel57 9 March 2020 02: 23 New
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                        In 1982, the MiG-23ML shot down a pair of F-15s, was it like that?

                        The Su-27, which was supposed to exceed the F-15, initially tracked 10 targets, and could accompany 2. But these are 4th-generation aircraft. MiG 23rd.
                      3. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 22: 17 New
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                        the topic is about the alleged shooting down of 2 f15 in flashing 23ml, but there is no actual confirmation. This is from the words of the Syrians, but even our military experts can not really say anything. There is no certainty. Su27 from another opera appeared much later in combat units than f15. And by the way, with the first series, su27 already went through a lot of improvements. Initially, it had very problematic Breo and engines. One of the key problems of ow / rf the aviation industry. Only over time did they learn to bring motor resources to about western standards
                      4. Pavel57 9 March 2020 23: 37 New
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                        Iraq also beat American technology in a clash with Iran. And the Iraqis noted the effectiveness of the MiG-23 with the R-24. If the R-60 more often damaged an enemy aircraft, then the R-24 hit on the spot.
                      5. Gosha Smirnov 9 March 2020 23: 57 New
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                        there old stuff with th .. m mostly sausages. The Israeli Air Force ALWAYS were considered the most powerful in the world, not inferior to the amers. And I would even say nothing, or even better in some things. They, for example, were always very careful in planning operations. Excellent avionics are produced. Many pilots have experience with sorties.
                      6. Pavel57 10 March 2020 10: 19 New
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                        Iran had at that time modern air forces - F-4, F-5 and F-14.
                        So for the MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-25 and Mirage F1 are quite worthy opponents.
                      7. Gosha Smirnov 10 March 2020 11: 45 New
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                        the topic of the moment 23 and f16 / 15 and its effect on the fight against machines of this type. F15 / 16 did not participate there, and f14 was only with Iran. Therefore, I wrote "mainly." Iran Iran f14 was the only fighter in that war 4th generation and released in a series in 74., just when the ML23 modification was released instantly, and the MLD was generally 84 years old. That is, in theory it should even be more advanced. Of course, comparing different types of aircraft is not entirely correct, but with "meetings" in battle, the results for the instant were much more often not in his favor. And, I'm sorry, but I consider the idea of ​​moral and not only an outdated car, make some attempt before modernization, so that it can compete on an equal footing with more advanced cars. Especially if there are incurable ills in the engine, flight stability, glider, etc. .. The ratio of effort and cost to increase the effectiveness of the combat complex for just a little bit will be pointless.
                      8. Pavel57 10 March 2020 12: 29 New
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                        but I consider it completely worthless the idea in a morally and not only outdated machine to make some attempt before modernization, so that it is able to compete on an equal footing with more advanced machines.

                        Nobody argues with this.
                      9. Gosha Smirnov 10 March 2020 15: 11 New
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                        That's right. Good luck!
  • vik669 8 March 2020 03: 22 New
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    The fighters recall the days and battles that they blew together - both MIG-23 and MIG-27 were engaged until 1981, but at that time it was a serious modern technology, but now 2020 and the country is different, so this topic is for couch pilots and not moreover, but there is VO for such a level of specialists, and it’s even interesting to read sometimes these excavations of universal specialists and those who joined them learn a lot about this and did not suspect it before, being in Irkutsk, Vaziani and Martynovka, etc., etc.!
  • Tarasios 8 March 2020 16: 29 New
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    Quote: Raiym bek
    Admins send warnings for such comments. There, I “caught” a warning for an article by one author: I wrote that apparently the author was glucan. Although I did not understand: it was really a violation or personal hostility was. Here, all around call each other (name-calling) whatever they want, but I flew wassat

    similarly. But, as a rule, a discussion of the actions of admins is a ready-made "article")
    1. vik669 8 March 2020 20: 09 New
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      Yes, you just read sometimes that it’s something you don’t know on the Internet and you understand that human stupidity is infinite, but on this some still manage to collect sour cream!
  • Tarasios 8 March 2020 16: 31 New
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    Quote: FCSO
    And still in pursuit.
    I’m just wondering how the author is going to place on the medium-range guided missile RVV-AE (R-77), which is attention! - has a diameter of 200 mm, the homing head 9B-1348E in which only the antenna has a diameter of 280 mm. And the flange with which it is mounted by the seeker has an even larger diameter! And it still needs to be covered with a fairing, which has an even larger diameter!
    What are we smoking? ..

    But have you already banned the file and the blue tape? ;))
  • Tarasios 8 March 2020 16: 55 New
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    On the topic of the article, I decided to read about the MiG-23 on Wiki. What seemed curious:
    "The first combat use of the MiG-23 was noted in 1974: as part of the Iraqi Air Force, planes were brought in to deliver bombing attacks on positions Kurdish fighters. "
    Straight deja vu)))