Soviet planes of the Second World War: exposure of the myths of filmmakers about the “winged junk”

About inconsistencies and mistakes in films dedicated to the Great Patriotic War (WWII), much has been said and written. A modern viewer often witnesses such scenes on the screen that historical reality are not connected at all in any way. Either the sandwiches flaunted with makeup and manicure obviously not in the 40s of the last century, or the insignia of the military personnel does not correspond to those used in this or that period of the war. But these are trifles.

And there are also episodes where it is already difficult to understand whether this is an accidental slip-up of a group of filmmakers or a purposefully distributed fake.

On the Sky Artist channel, a new series of the film was released about how on TV and in the movie they lie about Soviet pilots.

A statement is made by one of the Russian directors, who, after filming a film about pilots in an interview with the federal channel, said:

It becomes scary, in principle, how one could fly on this at all.

According to the director, "the planes were plywood."

The author of the video notes that he has an idea that the “old” and “cracking at the seams” Yak airplanes shown in Russian films about the war were made deliberately to emphasize the myth of “flying wood” and “winged junk”.

The author recalls how the Soviet Yaks (Normandy-Niemen squadrons) were met in Paris:

They were compared to a race car for the quality of the finish.

Movie with the exposure of cinema judgments about the “winged junk”:

Comments

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Well, the series "Fighters" itself is strange - the author "sees it this way."
I'm not talking about historical authenticity and artistic value: clumsy dialogs, shameful graphics - an uninteresting film as a whole.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

Well, the series "Fighters" itself is strange - the author "sees it this way." I'm not even talking about the historical accuracy and artistic value: awkward dialogues, shameful graphics - a film of little interest in general.

All current war films are like splint, almost none of them have credibility, and the falsity of these. not only in the well-groomed well-groomed faces of the artists, but also in the very atmosphere of these crafts, remakes, remakes. Everything is fake. Moreover, many films carry a clearly anti-Soviet semantic load and I immediately want to ask why and for whose money you are shooting these productions?

[Sayan]

Yes, in general, the entire post-Soviet cinema on the theme of the Second World War, rubbish and a solid blunder and a lie !!! With rare exceptions. Especially the role of SMERSH and detachments was misinterpreted, and now film crews took up the technique, noting the fact that these are WEAPON VICTORIES !!!

[rocket757]

They are already proposing to impose a maratorium on the shooting of military films by the current movie lovers !!!
I support .... these nedorezhisers with theirs producers "do not pour a hundred grams"!

[hohol95]

They generally need to be kept away from the "kitchen"!

[Jarserge]

Modern war films comics for idiots. A heap of absurdities and mistakes and almost always either illiteracy or the meanness of the authors in relation to historical facts. And here, as well as in relation to journalists, FULL impunity, because any donkey can kick a dead lion.

[hohol95]

The author of the video himself "gets hung up" a little at the beginning on the Yak-3. But the main brunt of the fighting was borne by the Yak-1 / 1b / 7/9. And after the war, it was the Yak-9 (naturally not wartime) that fought in the Chinese and North Korean air forces!
And Mr. Zakharov, after the closure of the program, THEIR Morals must have been retrained as an aviation specialist ...

[Old Horseradish]

In fact, one should not so admire plywood wings.
1) when a shell or machine gun hits, it is clear what happened to them.
2) the casing could swell and come off due to poor-quality paintwork. The plane could have crashed.
3) the best aces flew on American Airacobra aircraft. They were the ones who had big win counts.
4) German high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft often flew completely fearlessly deep into the rear of our troops - the reason is clear: the insufficient altitude of our fighters. They could be obtained by "Airacobras" and later modifications of Soviet fighters.
PS And the most heinous thing was that pilots were forced to fight according to outdated charters and those who did not fly were forced to fight. I mean the majority of commissioners (although there were exceptions).

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Old Fuck

3) the best aces flew on American Airacobra aircraft. They were the ones who had big win counts.

The armament had a profound effect on performance — weaker armaments on the yaks determined the tactics of the battle. But the Yaks were easier to manage and more maneuverable, which was more suitable for accelerated training sergeants.

La-5 La-7 had more powerful weapons and the individual performance of aces - no worse.

Everyone had their own tasks - often the regiments on the Yaks were accompanied by attack aircraft and bombers, but here you can’t get personal accounts, the task is to save the wards, which eliminates an aggressive battle with fighters.

[illuminat]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

weaker weapons on yaks,

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

La-5 La-7 had more powerful weapons

This is a common misconception. Yaks with one BS have a second volley almost like La, and with two 12,7 - almost one and a half times more.
The "shop" has synchronous cannons, and this reduces the rate of fire by about 30% and, accordingly, the second volley.

[Roman_vh]

Are you sure of all your statements?
And can you confirm them with facts?

[lucul]

In fact, one should not so admire plywood wings.

You have gathered all the myths together ...

the best aces flew on American Airacobra aircraft.

The main advantage of Aerocobra is
a working radio, always. Need I say how important this is in battle. But our walkie-talkies worked very badly ..

German high-altitude scouts often quite fearlessly flew into the deep rear of our troops - the reason is clear: the insufficient altitude of our fighters.

There was such an aircraft, at the beginning of the war, ours had a MiG-3 called. "God is on top" as Pokryshkin said. At an altitude of 7 and above, it was superior to Me.000. But the Germans did not fly so high ...

[Old Horseradish]

Quote: lucul

You have gathered all the myths together ...

Tell it A.V. Pokryshkin, who until the end of the war flew on the Aero Cobra, as well as all of his fighter air divisions (3 regiments) And everything on the Aero Cobra, despite the harsh pressure and the demand to rearm on LA-7. After the hero of the Soviet Union of Clubs died twice on LA-7, no one wanted to end the war on this unit. And this is a historical fact. Although the LA-7 was one of the best domestic fighters and many aces fought on it, for example Kozhedub. You still write that the I-16 was the best fighter. I guess it was, they just knocked them down by thousands.

[tovarich-andrey.62goncharov]

I-16 series 24 and above were on an equal footing with ME-109 until the winter of 1942. From the memoirs of a fighter pilot. You have a lot of petty, false information. You know - everything is true (in general) - but a spoonful of crap, with joy ... Whose will you be?

[illuminat]

Quote: tovarich-andrey.62goncharov

I-16 series 24 and above were on an equal footing with ME-109 until the winter of 1942. From the memoirs of a fighter pilot.

Golodnikov told this, but this is not so. With all due respect to Nikolai Gerasimovich, he simply did not think that his words would be interpreted so widely.

[fighter angel]

Old horseradish.
Here's how many times I am already convinced that at almost any discussion about fighters of the Great Patriotic War, something like you pops up, and "moans about the aircobra" begin.
What she was "unsurpassed" that "the best fought only on her", "everything else is rubbish .." Etc. etc.
I am telling you the facts.
About, allegedly, the favorite of the entire division of Pokryshkin "Aerocobra".
In accordance with your "shitty" manner of presentation.
To make it clearer.
1) All year 1941 Pokryshkin flew on the MiG-3, as well as on the I-16. And it was against them that he won, according to various estimates, from 10 to 15 victories. This is only for 1941.
2) Throughout 1942, Pokryshkin was first retrained, and then flew on the Yak-1. He shot down about 8-12 enemy vehicles precisely on Yak. During this period he took command of the regiment, he had to lead and command, and therefore such a combat score.
3) And only at the end of the spring of 1943, his regiment / division, received "cobras", retrained, and joined them in the battle for the sky of the Kuban. By that time, Pokryshkin had about 20-27 shot down.
4) From January to May 1945, Pokryshkin received the La-7 and made a certain number of combat missions on the Lavochkin. According to various sources, he shot down from 7 to 3 on La-5.
5) The final combat score of Pokryshkin, officially known, is 59 shot down.
We believe that it turns out that out of its official 59, about 30-32 are shot down in domestic cars.
And only 29-27 were shot down by him in the "Aircobra".
Half, or even less.
6) Absolutely the same situation with other leading aces of the 16th GIAD. Specifically, Rechkalov, Dmitry Glinka. They also have about 30-40% of those shot down from the official account - these are shot down on domestic fighters - "Ishachk", "Chaikas" (Rechkalov met the war on it), MiG-3, and Yak-1 .And only 50-60% directly already on "cobras".
So you fucking lie.
The most successful aces of the Red Army Air Force flew on the Yakovlevs and Lavochkins.

[Cyril732017]

Do not tell these facts to anyone else, they have nothing to do with reality, starting right from the fact that in 1942 Pokryshkin commanded a regiment and ending with the fact that he shot down aircraft on La-7, the last plane he shot down was in July 1944 and he didn’t shoot anything more, although the desire was ... look at a newsreel where in March 1945 he was landing his division on the German freeways and what kind of fighters were there

[fighter angel]

Kirill,
Well, if I think you’re wrong somewhere, then prove the opposite.
With specific facts and links.
Will you be so kind...
For now, you only spoil the air.

[Shishiga]

stormy applause

[swstr]

Well, firstly, about the spring of 1943, he flew both on La and on Yak, and on Aerocobra he only successfully became when he finalized it. Well, the other most productive pilot fighter Kozhedub flew the whole war to La, but at the end the war was even more and Yusovets was shot down :) so. that do not praise the aerocobra. To 64 German planes shot down by I.N. Kozhedub during the Great Patriotic War, at least 2 more American fighters should be added. In 120 air battles he was never shot down! Source and details: http://www.airaces.ru/asy-velikojj-otechestvennojj-vojjny/kozhedub-ivan-nikitovich.html

[dmmyak40]

The main advantage of Aerocobra is a working radio, always.

You got a little excited. Aerocobra had quite different advantages:
- high thrust-to-weight ratio (vertical battles);
- All-metal construction (resistance to overloads, the possibility of sharper maneuvering);
- good view from the cockpit;
- powerful weapons;
- chassis resistant to bonding;
- Good cabin conditions for the pilot.
Of the minuses - the problem with the corkscrew in the early series and the difficult exit of the aircraft due to the high probability of hitting the stabilizer

[tovarich-andrey.62goncharov]

And our engine was forced (imperceptibly for the Americans) - because it was necessary not to fly, but to fight. Pokryshkin wrote - three or four fights, as a result, copper shavings in oil, and put a new engine.

[shura7782]

high probability of impact on the stabilizer

By the way, Devyatayev felt this for himself. The book "Flight to the Sun".

[fighter angel]

dmmyak40
Generally correct.
Except for one important fact.
The cobra was not strong in the vertical. That is why the "Kuban whatnot" appeared.
Could not "cobra" normally vertical.
Let's turn to LTX.
R-39D, "aerocobra" - V1710 engine, power-1150 hp
rate of climb - 756 m / min.
For comparison: the Yak-9 rate of climb is 840 m / min.
rate of climb La-5 - 835 m / min
rate of climb of the Yak-1B - 980 m / min.
And the enemy: the climb rate of Vf-109F - 1050 m / min., Vf-109G-2 - 1200 m / min, the Vf-109G-6 - 815 m / min.
So, on the vertical "Cobra" is one of the worst cars.

[dmmyak40]

1. I can not agree completely.
Yes, the Cobra did not have outstanding characteristics on the vertical, but the available rate of climb, coupled with a solid structure, was enough to conduct an equal battle with the Germans on the verticals.
Remember what A.A. Pokryshkin in his memoirs: if there was a "shmit" on the tail of the AIP, he left the candles and there he "broke" the Cobra with a maneuver (now I cannot remember exactly the maneuver, I remembered only the expression 3 GSS), leaving the German in the tail.
One of the veterans recalled that in a frontal attack with a discrepancy with the German by oblique half-loops, he and his comrades "cleaned up" the gas (sometimes even with the release of shields), and then, letting the German forward, sat on his tail in afterburner and shot him down.
So the Cobra on the verticals was not so bad.
2. It seems to me to say that the Kuban whatnot is the result of the operation of the Cobra will be wrong. The vertical separation of the groups was both a borrowing of this variant of construction from the Germans, so developed by our pilots as a result of the first months of the war.
Guards regiments (including many on LaGG-3) at the KBF and the Black Sea Fleet were among the first to use the whatnot. Remember the memories of Igor Kaberov.

[fighter angel]

Yes, Dmitry, you can partly agree with you.
LTH is one thing, and air combat is multifaceted, and not only LTH play a decisive role in it.
But nevertheless, if such an ace as Pokryshkin left the "Cobra" on the vertical from "thin", it means that he had a good speed reserve. So he moved it to the height. At the same time, the "Messer" most likely, was already well driven, and he lost his speed, it is obvious. Otherwise, Alexander Ivanovich would not have risked. Here I give you 100%. He calculated each maneuver 10 steps forward, quickly and clearly, and only then performed it.
A frontal attack, with the care of a slanting loop, about which you say yes, is quite possible, again, if there is a reserve for speed.
Here tactics have already gone more than LTH. An oblique loop, well, not exactly a vertical maneuver, after all ... Cobras could, if there was a speed reserve, go to the vertical. But the fact is that the "aerocobras" quickly lost their speed after 1-2 such maneuvers. And to recruit it again, it took time, which in battle, as a rule, was no longer there. And here is the "Messera", and our Yaks with Lavochki still could "swing the vertical" much more than the Cobra. Their thrust-to-weight ratio was higher than that of the cobra, but the FV-190, this one was even worse in the vertical than the cobra. She could fight with him on the vertical, having an advantage.

[dmmyak40]

Alexey, I completely agree.
Here's another thing I forgot to write: when talking about engine power, we don’t forget that it alone is not enough. The question is in aerodynamics and how much the propeller will remove from engine power.
Thanks to the layout, the Cobra was a very "clean" aircraft: looking at it, one recalls the motto of the Soviet aircraft designer Neman (creator of the R-10 and a number of other machines): "Not a single protruding part in the air stream." The result is obvious.
As for the screw, the three-blade on most of the machines, and with 21 and 25 modifications - the four-blade, gave decent characteristics.

[fighter angel]

Dmitry, about aerodynamics - I fully support it.
The Cobra was aerodynamically very "clean" aircraft.
There are no questions.
About Joseph Neman and aerodynamics, honestly, I'm not sure what he said ...
But God is with him. Bright memory to him.
Yes, he is the creator of the R-10, the PS-5 passenger on the basis of the R-10, but at first he still had the KhAI-1. Passenger high-speed aircraft, overtaking fighters.
Many of his design bureaus then went to Kharkov Aircraft Plant No. 135, and ended up in the design bureau to Pavel Sukhoi, who set up Su-2 production in Kharkov, and built the I-135 fighter (Su-1 / Su-3).

[dmmyak40]

Yes, Joseph Neman had such a motto: just look at the planes to which he had a hand, and everything will become clear. Including and Su-1. The plane was interesting. If turbochargers were brought to mind, I think he would have gone in a small series as a high-altitude interceptor.
I still really like the I-21 Pashinin. Simply handsome - our answer to Herr Willie at 109. (and the cabin too).
But my favorite is TIS Polikarpova. What a handsome man! Flying battery with excellent flight data. How many lives could they save the distant bombers upon their return. Yes, and in the fleet he would have junkers with Heinkels patted great.

[fighter angel]

Yes, Dmitry, about I-21, in some sources it is called -IP-21, I agree.
The first teardrop-shaped fighter. And, obviously, the first in the world!
Excellent 360-degree view in battle. Nice, powerful weaponry. And look at the shape of the wing - swept consoles! This machine was ahead of its time. It was not for nothing that Shakhurin supervised her personally! However, as JV Stalin used to say: "Shakhurin is a mumble!" Apparently, this is what affected it. He could not push it through, there were comrades more toothy and "more trying"! The car was too innovative, it took time to bring it to mind, but there was just no time. The war was already on the doorstep ...
As for TIS, a good car. But how many of these have not yet reached the conveyor ... Remember V.Tairov- OKO-6, Ta-3, Ta-3bis, DIS (MiG-5) Mikoyan-Gurevich, Gr-1 Pyotr Grushin ... Work was underway, went searches, new cars were built and tested, concepts worked out ... Another year and a half, and the Red Army air forces would be on a completely different level. But, everything happened as it happened.

[Edvid]

Under Lend-Lease, the USSR received 2397 King Cobras and fifteen hundred Spitfires, which were not sent to the front - they were kept for the post-war period at Stalin's instructions. These fighter models were superior to the Soviet ones in terms of their parameters. Especially in terms of altitude, armament and range ...

[Cyril G ...]

And where does the fact that the Germans did not climb to heights? MiG just allowed to use strike and run. Due to the superiority in speed, the choice of position for the attack.
Target selection, dive acceleration, attack, and again using the acceleration energy to climb to a height. But the fact that the flight crew and their commanders used it incorrectly is a fact

[hohol95]

1) when a shell or machine gun hits, it is clear what happened to them.

Watching from what machine gun to shoot.

They could be obtained by "Airacobras" and later modifications of Soviet fighters.

The Spitfire was forgotten.

The official arrival of "Spitfires" in the USSR began in the spring of 1943. (These were the first shipments from the UK overseas). We then received modifications F.Mk.VB. They have already served pretty well in the Royal Air Force and before leaving England underwent a major overhaul, during which part of the equipment and weapons were replaced. All aircraft were brought to a single version "B". In this batch, the USSR received 143 vehicles.
All this combination of features of the "Spitfire" and determined its future fate in the Soviet Air Force. Given the strong armament and good altitude data, some of the vehicles were sent to fighter air defense regiments, covering Moscow and Leningrad.
From February 1944, Mk. IX began to enter the USSR. In total, until mid-July 1945, 1185 nines were delivered, of which 1183 were in the low-altitude modification LF.Mk.lXE and two in the high-altitude modification - HFMR.IX.
"Spitfires" of both variants have undergone detailed study and testing at the Air Force Research Institute. Their results showed that the most rational, given the excellent altitude characteristics of the "nine" (even the LF.Mk.lX calmly gained 12 m, and the HF-500 m, which was much more than the domestic Yak-13U and La-100) and the fact that the aircraft lagged behind Soviet fighters at medium and low altitudes according to its data, it should be used mainly in air defense aviation. By December 1944, there were about 300 nines in the air defense units. These vehicles practically did not participate in battles. It is only known that on March 8, 1945, a pair of LF.Mk.lX intercepted and destroyed the German reconnaissance Ju 88 modification S (or T) flying at high altitude to Leningrad. For other Soviet fighters, this aircraft was unavailable.

You forget that the fighting on the Eastern Front was conducted at low and medium altitudes. And to make special high-altitude interceptors or a fighter of high altitude (Su-1) because of problems with the engine did not work! And then a pressurized cabin was not provided for the fighter.

[Old Horseradish]

Quote: hohol95

You forget that the fighting on the Eastern Front was conducted at low and medium altitudes.

Actually, I wrote about high-altitude scouts like JUNKER-88, who calmly spied at an altitude of 8-9 thousand meters on Soviet rear. And nobody knocked them down. As for the YAK, to bring down the same Heinkel 111, for example, was, to put it mildly, a problematic task. Lugansky described the battle when a single Heinkel shot down two Yak fighters (quite calmly) and only Lugansky with great difficulty managed to knock him out, and then, after the shooter ran out of ammunition. Read the memoirs of our aces.

[hohol95]

Run around. Yes. Were there many radar stations in the USSR? Such a strong aircraft as the He-111 required armament for more serious than one 20 mm cannon and two rifle-caliber machine guns. How much did the British achieve with their batteries of simple "Browning" against the He-111? To the same volume, Non-111 was constantly modernized and its defensive armament changed from 3- [MG-17 machine guns to one 20-mm MGFF cannon with 180 shells in the nose (sometimes another 7.9-mm MG-15 machine gun), one 13-mm machine gun MG-131 in the upper installation (electrified turret on R-1), two 7.9-mm MG-81 machine guns with 1000 rounds in the rear of the lower nacelle, one MG-15 or MG-81 with 1000 rounds, or twin MG-81 with 500 rounds cartridges on the barrel in the side windows.
What modification did Lugansky fight with?

[Old Horseradish]

Quote: hohol95

What modification did Lugansky fight with?

It's better to ask him. Read his memoirs. I think it was 1943. He describes how "he poured machine guns on the wings where the fuel tanks were located, and they did not burn."

[gurzuf]

By chance, you didn't mean Junkers-86? The Germans did not have "Junkers". Or were they?

[hohol95]

Hero of the Soviet Union Guard Captain Klimov P. D.

On October 30, 1942, I was paired with a young pilot on Kittyhaw planes with the task of preventing reconnaissance aircraft from entering the port area. After gaining a height of 5000 m and establishing a radio connection with the ground, we proceeded to patrol ...

On that day, having prevented two Yu-88 nines from reaching the port of Murmansk, he shot down 2 Ju-88s. It is clear that his car was carrying 6x12,7 mm Browning. The Soviet pilot made good use of his car.
Hero of the Soviet Union Guard Major Motuz I.F.
On August 13, 1942, taking off on an airplane, the Yak-7b entered into battle with 4 Me-109. Shot down 2 Me-109. He was wounded, but landed at his airfield.

[shura7782]

You old hell, make sure again before writing

JUNKER-88, which calmly spied at an altitude of 8-9 thousand meters on Soviet rear.

For example, would get acquainted with TTX at least Mig-1 and Lagg-3. At war quietly rummage only sick on the head. Fly, it does not matter to whom, for the front line, it’s not in a car to the country to drive for vegetables.

[fighter angel]

Horseradish,
if you are lying, then do not lie.
Vladimir Lavrinenkov, who shot down the largest number of twin-engine bombers, flew and shot them down for some reason precisely on the Yaks.
Perhaps Vladimir Dmitrievich did not know that this was "problematic"?

[dmmyak40]

The man decided to say his "weighty" word:

the best aces flew on American Airacobra aircraft. They were the ones who had big win counts.

.
And what did these guys fly on?
1. Kozhedub - 64.
2. Evstigneev - 52 + 3
3. Vorozheykin - 47 + 13
4. Popkov 40.
5. Serov - 39 + 6
6. Lavrinenkov - 36 + 7
7. Nitso 34 + 6
8. Lugansk 34 + 1
9. Stepanenko 32 + 9
10. Zelenov - 30 + 12
11. Golovachev - 30

[CommanderDIVA]

Twice GSS Vorozheikin fought in the second half of the Second World War on Yak7, Yak3, GSS Skomorokhov fought on La 5, and these are our recognized aces. According to the interception of German high-altitude reconnaissance officers, our pilots removed oxygen equipment to reduce the mass of fighters, since battles were fought at medium altitudes, it is well described in Vorozheikin's memoirs "Soldiers of the Sky"

[fighter angel]

CommanderDIVA
I’ll supplement you a bit and clarify.
Vorozheikin also on the Yak-9, and fought on the Yak-9T.
Along with Koldunov, he is our best "Yak-AS".
And Skomorokhov started on LaGG-3, then moved to La-5, La-5FN.
One of the best "Aces-Shopkeepers"

[boris epstein]

And N Kozhedub and his regiment flew on La-5. Twice Hero of the Soviet Union BF Safonov and the regiment he commanded generally flew on I-16-24 (2 ShVAK-20 aviation automatic cannons and 2 ShKAS machine guns were installed on it Moreover, he flew so much that one plane was simply worn out and he was given a new "Ishachok". And he died on the Hurricane - the engine jammed (report on the radio of Safonov himself). The I-16 was flown by Twice Hero of the Soviet Union Stepan Suprun. The Normandie-Niemen Regiment flew on Yaks and the French pilots loved them. The I-16 had an advantage over the Me-109 in the rate of climb, which is why the competent Soviet pilot tried to shift the battle with the Messer to the vertical. Messer, due to a more powerful engine, had an advantage in horizontal combat, and due to its greater weight, in a dive. 2 ShVAK-20 cannons were installed on 12, 17,24,27,28,29 series I-16s. On the Yak-3,7P, 9 there were 1 ShVAK-20 cannon, on the LaGG-3, La-5,7 there were ShVAK-20 cannons.

[Mik13]

Quote: Boris Epstein

And he (Safonov) died on Hurricane, jammed the engine (report on the radio of Safonov himself).

On Kittyhawk same (P-40).

Quote: Boris Epstein

Twice Hero of the Soviet Union Stepan Suprun flew on I-16.

Stepan Suprun fought and died on the MiG-3 in July 1941

Quote: Boris Epstein

The Normandy-Niemen regiment flew on the Yaks and the French pilots loved them.

Given the history of the origin of the engine, the Yak was very similar to the French fighters. Probably liked it for that. The alternative to the Yakam in 1942 was either LaGG-3, or something on Lend-Lease, like Hurricane or P-40. So the choice is obvious.

Quote: Boris Epstein

The I-16 had an advantage over the Me-109 in climbing, why a competent Soviet pilot tried to translate the battle with Messer to the vertical.

So it depends on which I-16 and what kind of Bf ...
So the Bf 109e really has a climb rate comparable to the I-16 type 24. (930 m / min versus 880 m / min for the I-16) Only Emily was removed from service in 1941, and the Bf 109f climb 1300 m / min .
That is why in all memoirs, pilots write that they used mainly horizontal maneuver. We stood in a circle and tried to fight back.

[dmmyak40]

The I-16 had an advantage over the Me-109 in climbing, why a competent Soviet pilot tried to translate the battle with Messer to the vertical.

Tell me please, did you copy it from somewhere or is it your own thoughts? For the first time in decades of immersion in the topic of aviation, incl. combat, I find out that the I-16 had an advantage over the "shmit" in the rate of climb. And as for the vertical transfer of the I-16 pilot ... this is just a masterpiece.

Messer, by virtue of a more powerful motor, had an advantage in horizontal combat, and by virtue of a greater weight, in diving.

The second part of the Marlezon Ballet ...
Conclusion: in the comment, the opposite is true.

[Old Horseradish]

All fans of plywood and wood are dedicated:
“But still there was one American plane, which towards the end of the war became one of the symbols of the domination of Soviet pilots in the skies. Bell P-39 Airacobra - aces' car.
Such a loud epithet is not accidental. Pokryshkin, Gulaev, Rechkalov, Kutahov and many other masters of air combat at various times flew on the P-39. In his memoirs, Pokryshkin called the “aerocon” his favorite aircraft, of course, because forty-eight of the fifty-nine planes he shot down fell on flights on an American fighter.

I liked the Airacobra for its shape and, mainly, for its powerful weapons. There was something to shoot down enemy planes - a 37 mm cannon, two large-caliber rapid-fire machine guns and four normal caliber machine guns, a thousand rounds per minute each. My mood did not deteriorate, and after warning the pilots about the dangerous feature of the aircraft, I would go into a tailspin due to rear alignment. "
PS If we take the statistics of combat missions, then the smallest losses among fighters were borne by the Airacobra. The best booking, overview, excellent radio station, powerful weapons. As for the Yak-3, because of him, Pokryshkin had a falling out with the designer Yakovlev. Because Pokryshkin said that "it will be difficult to shoot down bombers on your plane due to weak weapons." You can continue to watch the modern films of the Pharisee Medinsky about the war.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Old Fuck

take statistics of combat missions, then the smallest losses among fighters were borne by "Airacobra"

Here you need to understand why the losses on the Aero Cobra were lower - because the Guards regiments, pilots with combat experience, were re-equipped on Aero Cobras.

[illuminat]

Quote: Old Fuck

1) when a shell or machine gun hits, it is clear what happened to them.

Everything happened, not depending on the material.

Quote: Old Fuck

2) the casing could swell and come off due to poor-quality paintwork.

No, not from "poor quality paintwork". Either exceeding the permissible loads, or poor-quality gluing of the sheathing and the frame (marriage - it is also not at all from the material).

Quote: Old Fuck

4) German high-altitude scouts often quite fearlessly flew into the deep rear of our troops

They flew to the rear of "not ours" in the same way.

Quote: Old Fuck

They could be obtained by "Airacobras" and later modifications of Soviet fighters.

"Aircobras" just could not get them. The ceiling did not allow.

Quote: Old Fuck

But the most infamous thing was that pilots were forced to fight according to outdated charters and those who did not fly were forced to fight. I mean most commissars

It was not commissars who made them, but commanders of all levels. The most infamous thing is when an ignoramus undertakes to condemn veterans, on the basis of his own stupidity.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

About the supercharger of the aircraft engine M-105

The motor had a two-speed drive centrifugal supercharger (PTsN) with gear ratios of 7,85 and 10, to increase power at low and medium altitudes.

These are heights of 3000 and 5000 m. The M105 engine and its modifications have been optimized to deliver more power at low and medium altitudes.

Yak-3 is a weight compromise in wartime. Maximum weight reduction for glider, armor, fuel, weapons and ammunition.
Well, it was not possible to create, during the war years, a powerful and reliable engine - they squeezed everything that was possible from the M-105, the M-107 (VK-107) and its modifications.
The Yak-3, like a fighter made from what was "at hand" during the war years (technology, engine, materials), is a brilliant machine that fulfilled the tasks assigned to the designer.

[hohol95]

The Yak-3, like a fighter made from what was "at hand" during the war years (technology, engine, materials), is a brilliant machine that fulfilled the tasks assigned to the designer.

But then he appeared as a result of the "evolution" of the Yaks. And he got into the troops in 1944.

[dmmyak40]

In general, we had a blockage with turbocompressors: Treskin, like, worked on them. Until the end of the war they didn’t bring it to mind. It’s good that they managed to create a nuclear bomb, otherwise there would be problems with heavy bombers and their escort at altitude.

[parusnik]

Here in the Constitution they are going to consolidate the "historical truth" .. If they do, for such films as "The Fighters" and the like, will they or will they understand and forgive?

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: parusnik

Here in the Constitution they are going to fix the "historical truth"

If they can define what "historical truth" is.
No source can give the only true picture.
One thing is true - we won the war.

[Ros 56]

The planes at the beginning of the war were indeed wooden except for the attachment points of power elements, engine mounts, landing gears and control systems, but this in no way can characterize its flying and, especially, fighting qualities. Cracked, yes it was, but they flew and beat the vaunted Nazi aces. And even on the IL-2, the entire rear of the fuselage was wooden. But what did Chkalov do on I-16? And on Ishachki they shot down both bombers and fighters. A plane by plane, the main thing is who controlled this plane.

[boris epstein]

All Tupolev's planes (initially, starting with ANT-1) were all-metal. Likewise, all-metal aircraft of Petlyakov, Sukhoi, Arkhangelsky, Beriev, Ermolaev. All-metal was DB-3F Ilyushin, who bombed Berlin in 1941.

[Ros 56]

We are talking about fighter jets, and I know what is better from what I’m better than you, at least not worse, since 68 I have been fond of this business.

[Cyril G ...]

In the USSR Air Force plywood I-16 release 1939/40. served until 1945. The air regiment in Kamchatka until the spring of 1945 flew them ..

[Goldmitro]

Quote: Malyuta

All current war films are like splint, almost none of them have credibility,

Quote: Malyuta

Everything is fake. Not only that, many films carry an obviously anti-Soviet thought load, and I immediately want to ask why and for whose money you shoot these productions?

As an example of how to make films about the Great Patriotic War, I would recommend a film to our modern filmmakers "War as War" 1968, if they really want to make a true film! But Oscars and other awards for it will not be given - there are no naked asses and other obscenities, and the Russian soldiers there do not correspond to the image propagated by the West today and not without the help of our films!

[Malyuta]

Quote: Goldmitro

As an example of how to make films about the Great Patriotic War, I would recommend to our modern filmmakers the film "In War as in War" of 1968, if they really want to make a true film!

Thank you, Comrade! It's my favorite movie!!!! I think that in this series the masterpiece is "They fought for the Motherland"!

[Old Horseradish]

Why, do you like watching these films more?

[illuminat]

Quote: Old Fuck

Why, do you like watching these films more?

Awesome movie, thanks for the link! I-3 live, real, stunned (at 12.35)! Not to mention the I-5.
The movie is better than The Fighters.

[Nitarius]

directors of liberals .. LONG TIME NEEDED to beat along the ridge .. they hate the USSR so much that .. sorry not 37 years! otherwise many wouldn’t interfere with the world to their ancestors!

[2112vda]

Quote: Old Fuck

They could get "Airacobra"

You are wrong. The reason why the Airacobra was not popular with the Western allies was in the Allison engine, which had a lower altitude than the Merlin clone installed on the P-51. The P-38 was equipped with Allison turbochargers, the P-47 also had a turbocharger. The USSR had a small number of high-altitude "Spitfires" used in air defense. "Airacobras" have proven themselves well at low and medium altitudes. The trouble with modern Russia is that amateurs have taken over to lead it, including in the information sphere. So we have what we have.

[Old Horseradish]

Well, I will throw Pokryshkin’s memoirs in the trash where he described how he shot down high-altitude scouts and will wait for your memoirs. First, read the memoirs of our aces, but I didn’t come up with it myself, but wrote from their words.

[sanik2020]

But the most infamous thing was that pilots were forced to fight according to outdated charters and those who did not fly were forced to fight. I mean most commissioners (although there were exceptions)

All charters are written in the blood and time in which you live. There are no charters written once and for all.
And at the expense of the commissars, it was just that most of them were always in the forefront, it was just a shame for those people not to be in front of everyone, although it was scary like everyone else.
Just unlike us, they were ideological and conscientious, I remember from early childhood.

[Pavel73]

Creating wooden fighters was a very wise and far-sighted decision. We knew that if war happened, we could be left without aluminum. And there are many forests, and they are out of enemy reach. As a result, the wooden La-5FN turned out to be a worthy rival to the Bf-109. Which, incidentally, near the end of the war, the Germans also had to do partially wooden.

[Shiden]

Of course, I apologize but whoever read the memoirs of pilots, designers, and testers. For example, before the war, a small number of BB-22 YAK-2 YAK-4 were released; all Yakovlev’s cars were metal-derivative. So, at the beginning of the war, only a few could fly into the air, you know why, over the winter all the derivative details became worthless. And with the wings on the YAKs there are also written a lot in memoirs. So, to argue that the YAK, LAGG, LA aircraft are masterpieces of world aircraft I would not.

[fighter angel]

shiden.
When you learn to write normally in Russian, then come.
In the meantime, and d and those where NOT TO BE! Read memories of METAL-DERIVY!

[Shiden]

Which, in addition to grammar, is not something to argue with. Although it is good that you recalled the memory and memoirs of the participants in the war.

[fighter angel]

Go case and declension teach DERIVY!
And how "not" and "nor" are spelled correctly.
It can be seen quite badly with the enemy on the information front, if already such slag out of season started to be broadcast ...

[Salty]

Quote: fighter angel

Go case and declension, DERIVY

Invite him to conjugate "club". And after all, it conjugates, it will become of it.

[Shiden]

Well, you are not in a position to argue, to refute my comment. You did not accidentally watered as an employee in the army. There are a lot of words and the result is 0, as well as the mind. And yes, Russian is not my native language.

[fighter angel]

Ill, you made a mistake with the address.
Nonsense refuted elsewhere.
And here they just fix it and send it "wherever it is" ...

[Shiden]

So you think that people who tested, fought, wrote nonsense. You at least read the history of the adoption of the aircraft YAK, MIG.LAGG. So it may become clear that the aircraft were not as good as they presented us during the Soviet era.

[fighter angel]

You are talking nonsense.
Those people do not hide behind, will not work for you.
I can tell you the story of adopting aircraft in the first person.
With all the details and faces.
Therefore, I briefly summarize here for you.
The Lavochkin and Yaki, namely La-5FN, La-7, Yak-3, Yak-9U / M / P, are the best front-line fighters of the Second World War. The LaGG-3 is the world's first and best combat aircraft made of composite "delta-wood" material, ahead of its time. The MiG-3 is the best high-altitude, high-speed fighter in the world at the beginning of the war.

[AndVikt]

I remember the British had such a high-speed twin-engine aircraft Mosquito. Most often, in reconnaissance execution, they flew without armament, since they avoided pursuit due to high speed. The highlight was, if my memory serves me, that they were wooden. This is the question of which is better wood or metal.

[bbss]

Quote: Old Fuck

I wrote about high-altitude scouts like JUNKER-88

What is called "I heard the ringing ...". They had a high-altitude reconnaissance plane Junkers-86 ... But this is a different vehicle.

[CommanderDIVA]

The best Soviet-made fighter aircraft for thrust-weight ratio were the Lavochkin family aircraft, the queues of two ShVAK guns mounted on La 5 were more than enough for all Germans, well described in the memoirs of the GSS Skomorokhov, Yakovlev’s experiments with 37 and 45 mm on Yaks showed their insolvency, the gun’s heavy weight and limited ammunition played in the red, Yak 3 top creation Yakovlev Design Bureau

[fighter angel]

I agree about Lavochkin.
And about Yakovlev, in vain you are. Its Yak-9T with a 37-mm cannon, a fully completed and mass-produced modification of the Yak-9. It was on it that our aces such as Stepanenko, Vybornov, and Vorozheikin fought and shot down the Fritz, by the way, also flew the Yak-9T for some time.
In addition to the magnificent Yak-3, there was no less cool Yak-9U with the M-107 engine.
Appeared at the front in the spring and summer of 1944. You will start to object that the M-107 engine was unreliable, overheated, failed, etc. But facts are stubborn things. Nikolai Yakubovich unearthed data on the operation of the Yak-9U M-107 in the 163rd Red Banner IAP in the archives. So, in this regiment, the technical staff strictly followed the instructions for operating the M-107, and the IAS officers carefully followed this. And here is the result for you: M-107 ENGINES IN 163 Red Banner IAP WERE OUT FOR 120-130 HOURS, INSTEAD OF THE POSITIVE RESOURCE 100. How do you like this fact? And the flight crew considered their Yak-9U and M-107 to be the BEST DOMESTIC FIGHTERS! Details of this can be found in N. Yakubovich's books "Yakovlev. Iron Aircraft Designer" and "Yakovlev's Fighters".

[CommanderDIVA]

In Vorozheikin's memoirs "Soldiers of the Sky" there is no mention of the fact that he flew the Yak 9t, in the memoirs of the GSS Zimin "Fighters" there is a mention of the Yak 9 t but with a 45 mm cannon instead of 37 mm, but thanks for the info