Military Review

Modern assessments of Stalin's personality: from murderer to saint

379

"Murderer? “Of course,” - Vladimir Pozner. “I can tell as much as you like how Stalin was bloodshed,” Nikolai Svanidze. “Many monastic Russian people consider Stalin a saint,” Alexander Prokhanov. “And probably he was a believer after all,” Nikolai Starikov.


These diametrically opposed judgments about the personality of Joseph Stalin have become characteristic of today. Political scientists, journalists, historians, publicists - everyone is trying to express their opinion about the figure of Stalin, often choosing an extreme position both in criticism and in praise. In the media, Stalin appears as the greatest villain of all time, then as the messiah who made an incredible civilizational contribution. There is practically no middle ground and neutral assessments of Joseph Stalin.

On the channel “Think yourself. Think Now ”presents the video“ Real Stalin ”, where the authors claim an objective assessment of this politician.

The video notes that after the collapse of the USSR, they began to actively represent the Stalin era, like Stalin himself, as a black page of the Russian stories.

From video:

This is done in order to somehow justify the plunder of the country. The legend of millions of innocent victims fits this idea perfectly.

How objective this video about Stalin is, each reader has the right to judge:

379 comments
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  1. DMB 75
    DMB 75 26 February 2020 10: 51 New
    31
    Here is the assessment of Stalin’s people now.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 10: 58 New
      +5
      my grandmother cried when they buried Stalin. So firsthand I know that man was great

      PS The current CPRF franchise would cry if Stalin suddenly appeared from nowhere. They would whimper in horror. Stalin would have been surprised to look at the party and Zyuganov and Grudinin

      1. paul3390
        paul3390 26 February 2020 11: 05 New
        13
        the current Communist Party franchise would have cried if Stalin had suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They would whimper in horror.

        Of course. For the first thing he would shoot was not even the liberals, but them. For the betrayal of the cause of the working class and the idle opportunism. From Genosse Zyu a communist as from Prime Minister Medvedev ..
        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 26 February 2020 11: 07 New
          -7
          we offended the communists with the VO, defenders of socialism failed. They are for Platoshkin with Semin and for Grudinin with Zyuganov and Khodorkovsky, and here we are engaged in seditiousness and slandering the party with bright people.
          Will smear us with minuses
          1. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 26 February 2020 12: 26 New
            +8
            Quote: c-Petrov
            we offended the communists with the VO, defenders of socialism failed. They are for Platoshkin with Semin and for Grudinin with Zyuganov and Khodorkovsky, and here we are engaged in seditiousness and slandering the party with bright people.
            Will smear us with minuses

            Did he understand what he wrote? I also forgot Gaidar, Chubais and Zhirinovsky and Yeltsin to pile up a heap. Or liberals and democrats can’t condemn you? It won’t work out. There aren’t any communists here, the communists are all sitting in the Kremlin, but the socialist there are not a lot of values ​​and each time there will be even more, because your power makes the life of ordinary people more and more unbearable. People no longer believe in promises and handouts. Therefore, they recall Stalin's approval of his methods of dealing with you. Although I am not his supporter, as the Jew Kedmi said in a different way, then it was probably impossible? I don’t know, I didn’t live then, but my relatives were repressed under him. I had to forget everything and live on without making mistakes. Moreover, life in the 70s was already settled. But no you needed everything, here and now! And you will get yours to the fullest. but not what you expected.
            1. St Petrov
              St Petrov 26 February 2020 12: 46 New
              -2
              I also forgot Gaidar, Chubais and Zhirinovsky and Yeltsin to pile up

              with these it is clear and never denied. These socialists / communists do not pretend. I wrote about others wassat Chubais, Chubais, but I wrote about the hypothetical reaction of Stalin to the modern Communist Party franchise

              There are just no communists here, the communists are all sitting in the Kremlin

              oh how wassat

              But the defenders of socialist values ​​are not few here and each time there will be even more

              logically, there were most defenders in the 90s (well, if you take the 90s countdown and finish 2020). And how many were sworn bones to lie for the ideas of socialism. At least 30 million party members. Well, I think the rest of the defenders was more than a dozen million. Well, the result of protection and exhaust from gallant speeches and oaths of a communist, we have been observing for 30 years

              But no, you needed everything, here and now!

              I’m not in the photo, there are no capitalists either.

              1. Mar.Tirah
                Mar.Tirah 26 February 2020 13: 26 New
                +5
                Quote: s-t Petrov
                I’m not in the photo, there are no capitalists either.

                Well, that’s understood. Will you wait for someone to take it? Will we survive under any power?
                1. St Petrov
                  St Petrov 26 February 2020 13: 28 New
                  -2
                  Well, that’s understood. Will you wait for someone to take it? Will we survive under any power?

                  well, it’s clear that you didn’t wait, but lay down in the field for the struggle for socialism, as was written in the communist oath - unlike me, who is waiting

                  I COMMIT:
                  1. Do not spare or cover the conscious enemies of the working people, even if these enemies were former friends and close relatives.
                  2. Not to maintain friendship with the enemies of the proletariat and with all those who are hostile to us.
                  3. To attract new followers to the teachings of communism.
                  4. Raise your family as true communists.


                  I promise:
                  1. Death with dignity and calmly for the cause of the liberation of workers from the yoke of rapists.
                  2. Do not ask the enemies of the working people for mercy either in captivity or in battle.
                  3. Do not pretend to be enemies, otherwise thinking, for personal gain or self-interest.


                  PS Your claims are ridiculous to me, as from a generation of those who have skipped everything - an oath, ideals, everything - and I still heal about any power when I first went to the polls in 2000

                  PPS my oath sounded less pathetic in the army and there was still no moment in many years - wherever I would have violated this oath-oath. Such are the things.

                  PPPS A true communist, in my understanding of what it should be, would not survive the 90s. He would have shot himself. Well, this is me to the number of people writing here for socialism / communism brave speeches

                  And we have only Platoshkin and Zyuganov with Semin and Grudinin. These are the communists.

                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 26 February 2020 14: 49 New
                    -2
                    Quote: c-Petrov

                    PPPS A true communist, in my understanding of what it should be, would not survive the 90s. He would have shot himself. Well, this is me to the number of people writing here for socialism / communism brave speeches

                    Strongly said! Adherents only on the Internet are such irreconcilable wrestlers, but in life they simply go with the flow ...
                    1. St Petrov
                      St Petrov 26 February 2020 14: 59 New
                      -3
                      On August 24, 1991, adviser to the USSR President on military affairs, Sergei Akhromeev, committed suicide. Marshal Akhromeev hanged himself in his Kremlin office. There was a suicide note on the table: “I can’t live, my Motherland is dying, and everything that I considered the meaning of life is being destroyed. I fought to the last. "

                      the chief business executive and party financier Nikolay Kruchin. “I am not a conspirator, but I am a coward. Please inform the Soviet people of this. ”

                      There were many such examples. There were ideological ones. And these people inspire deep respect from me (not the fact of suicide, but the principle and inviolability of the position). They had an idea and ideals for which they lived. When this did not happen, they, as true ones, could not put up with it.

                      here he is a communist. And this is an act. But not these speeches on the forums and the pseudo-share fight in the cam from the pseudo-share here. Who are not sparing pillows on their fingers are fighting the Kremlin, along with Kremlin-offended Papuans from neighboring countries from one trench
                  2. Sergey S.
                    Sergey S. 26 February 2020 23: 13 New
                    0
                    Quote: s-t Petrov
                    PPPS A true communist, in my understanding of what it should be, would not survive the 90s. He would have shot himself. Well, this is me to the number of people writing here for socialism / communism brave speeches

                    1. This is either neurasthenia. or provocation. Both the first and second are not worthy of public discussion.
                    2. A true communist is rare, in principle. This is a highly educated person, with deep feelings for the people and a strong faith in the inevitable triumph of justice. I assume that you have not seen such. I'm so sorry.
                    3. The tragedy of the 1990s is terrible. So many meaningless deaths ... including people whose ideals were trampled by outright bastards and the narrow-minded egoists. No need to speculate on this topic.
                    4. A communist society will certainly be built. This is the law. which so far no one has scientifically refuted. I will tell you a weak spot. The most interesting thing is that no one has yet guessed which social system will replace the communist one. I don’t believe in the end of the story ...
                    5. The tragedy of the 1990s is the tragedy of Russia, not communism. It so happened that the most advanced country in the world suddenly abandoned the near Victory, and turned to the outskirts of the historical process. Americans assumed that they won a complete victory. They celebrated ... They woke up .... They got sober ... And, to their great horror, they discovered that the idea had not died, but migrated from the USSR to the PRC. The Chinese are many more, they are already well educated, have built the basis for building communism ... And now, instead of the USSR, which was a more convenient opponent, the Americans received Great China as an opponent, who is obsessed with the expectation of a Victory over the West, which has humiliated China and the Chinese for centuries.
                    I am sure that if history could be replayed, the Americans would try to return to the 1980s in order to support Gorbachev there, establish more friendly relations with the USSR, and consolidate China on the sidelines ... so that the USSR would remain the leader of the communist world.
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 08: 40 New
                      0
                      that the idea did not die, but migrated from the USSR to China

                      This is such a big mistake.
                    2. ifvbkm
                      ifvbkm 16 March 2020 18: 15 New
                      +1
                      True words, comrade! In the most difficult days of the Second World War, Stalin helped the almost defeated Chinese Communists and Mao, and I think they will never forget their saviors, for they are the most grateful people, for nobility - their religion - is Confucianism!
          2. Kostyar
            Kostyar 26 February 2020 14: 43 New
            +5
            Stalin rallied the people of a vast country!
            By force from under the stick, this is not possible in principle!
            " Я русский, грузинского происхождения!" И.В. Сталин
        2. Malyuta
          Malyuta 26 February 2020 12: 11 New
          +3
          Quote: paul3390
          Of course. For the first thing he would shoot was not even the liberals, but them. For the betrayal of the cause of the working class and the idle opportunism. From Genosse Zyu a communist as from Prime Minister Medvedev ..
        3. Ptolemy Lag
          Ptolemy Lag 26 February 2020 12: 35 New
          +8
          And he did the right thing !!!
      2. Nasrat
        Nasrat 26 February 2020 11: 12 New
        -23
        Quote: c-Petrov
        my grandmother cried when they buried Stalin. So firsthand I know that man was great





        I don’t specifically give any comments, only your comment about your grandmother and a video with another grandmother ... no comment ...
        Who is going to minus - Minus will be a video story, ... a story about the life of my grandmother (the one from the video), about life under Stalin. Minus the lives of ordinary people under Stalin ....
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 26 February 2020 11: 18 New
          11
          NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
          As the Soviet Union judged 10-year-old children for not fulfilling work. norms
          Yes, yes, it was just that ... laughing laughing laughing And Stalin ate babies for breakfast. And Beria was bathed in a bath of virgin blood.
          Where are you from fool just gaining?
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 26 February 2020 11: 23 New
            -14
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
            As the Soviet Union judged 10-year-old children for not fulfilling work. norms
            Yes, yes, it was just that ... laughing laughing laughing And Stalin ate babies for breakfast. And Beria was bathed in a bath of virgin blood.
            Where are you from fool just gaining?

            Instead of inappropriate sarcasm, we’d watch a video .. Grandma’s address is, so you can check ...
            I understand that your Faith in Stalin has become like faith in Jesus ... but mocking your grandmother is not worth it ...
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 11: 29 New
              19
              NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
              Instead of inappropriate sarcasm, we’d watch a video .. Grandma’s address is, so you can check ...
              Well, it started ... But I have my own grandmother and I believe her more than my left grandmother from the Internet.
              And we also had a neighbor, I changed all my passport data from my name to the date and place of birth. And when we died, we learned that her father, an accomplice of the Nazis, was shot immediately after the liberation of Taganrog, and she herself was Nazi bedding, eat up at the officers' canteen. So they are different grannies and it’s far from the fact that your grandmother here tells the truth to the womb, rather lies like a gray gelding.
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 26 February 2020 11: 32 New
                -13
                Diana, so you watched the video? Judging by the comments - no .... But they have already condemned the grandmother .... as a litter, and an accomplice of the Nazis ... Where did such hatred for their fellow citizens come from?
                Знаете, будучи в Канаде по делам, пришлось обращаться к госчиновникам.. те просто поверили мне "на слово", иностранцу! ...а смотрю на Вас и понимаю, почему у нас без паспорта и справки ни куда...
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 11: 39 New
                  +9
                  NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
                  Diana, so you watched the video? Judging by the comment - no .... But they have already condemned the grandmother .... as bedding, and an accomplice of the Nazis ...
                  And I’m not going to look for several reasons.
                  1. I am at work and cannot turn on the sound.
                  2. You should not expect anything worthwhile from you, respectively, and watch your garbage from the Internet, too.
                  3. It is enough to have a head on your shoulders to understand that this is a FALSE judging by the name of the video.
                  4. I repeat, I have my relatives and their opinion is more important to me than the opinion of some kind of left grandmother.
                  Where does such hatred for his fellow citizens come from?
                  Fellow citizens differ. Among the fellow citizens were Vlasovs with red, leather and other skins corrupt. And such fellow citizens as you are not fellow citizens to me at all.
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 26 February 2020 11: 44 New
                    -12
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina

                    Fellow citizens differ. And such fellow citizens as you are not fellow citizens to me at all.

                    Когда намерены меня сжечь? Именно так поступали с "не согражданами" в Одессе...

                    Quote: Diana Ilyina

                    1. I am at work and cannot turn on the sound ..

                    I haven’t seen it, but I condemn it ...

                    Quote: Diana Ilyina

                    2. You should not expect anything worthwhile from you, respectively, and watch your garbage from the Internet, too.

                    The arguments are weak, due to the fact that all Internet garbage, including VO ... however, you stick here even at work ...

                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 11: 47 New
                      +5
                      A lot of honor to dirty your hands! In general, let the competent authorities deal with you.
                      1. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 26 February 2020 11: 54 New
                        -12
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        A lot of honor to dirty your hands! In general, let the competent authorities deal with you.

                        Where does this hatred come from? ... does it probably prevent you from living?
                        I do not hold you angry.
                      2. Doctor
                        Doctor 26 February 2020 12: 01 New
                        -7
                        Where does this hatred come from?

                        The bourgeoisie was forced to work for money, the sound was not allowed to turn on. laughing
                        Whether business earlier ...
                      3. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 09 New
                        -8
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Where does this hatred come from?

                        The bourgeoisie was forced to work for money, the sound was not allowed to turn on. laughing
                        Whether business earlier ...

                        This is really surprising, but it is noted that the adherents of the immense faith in Stalin are very embittered and cruel. Sorry for them .. cling to the past, certainly wanting to apply it in today's life (to shoot those who disagree, to build everyone in orderly rows even in thought ....) ... from which they can be called Utopian-Stalinists ..
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. Nasrat
                        Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 00 New
                        -8
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        I have only one question for you. Why did you choose such a disgusting nickname and avatar? Is this a mirror of your rotten soul and do they most accurately reflect your essence?

                        You don't like my nickname about you? This is the question when the arguments end ..
                        Well, if I answer that my nickname reflects the attitude towards Stalin, you obviously won’t like it ... and it’s not true .. take it as a message to all the minus-minors ..- now I came up with this, for such questions ...
                      6. Sergey S.
                        Sergey S. 27 February 2020 21: 30 New
                        0
                        Quote: Nasr
                        You don't like my nickname about you? ... it’s like a message to all the minusculers ..- this is what I’ve come up with now, for such questions ...

                        Disrespect for people is not a virtue.
                        In addition, your post gives you out as an exclusively egocentric person.
                        It seems that you are the true follower of all the bad that is accumulated in the conventional image of Stalin.
                  2. Ptolemy Lag
                    Ptolemy Lag 26 February 2020 12: 42 New
                    +8
                    Utopian-Stalinists? No, we have another name - patriots (not to be confused with cheers-patriots) of their country. But you (with a small letter) do not understand, you NasRat ...
                  3. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 02 New
                    -5
                    Quote: Ptolemy Lag
                    Utopian-Stalinists? No, we have another name - patriots (not to be confused with cheers-patriots) of their country. But you (with a small letter) do not understand, you NasRat ...

                    Well, since you (with a capital letter, as I am a well-mannered person) are patriots - show the result of your patriotism ... And where were you patriots of your country when the USSR collapsed? There is no result of your patriotism - you are Utopian-Stalinists !!!
                  4. Moore
                    Moore 26 February 2020 15: 30 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Nasr

                    Well, since you (with a capital letter, as I am a well-mannered person) are patriots - show the result of your patriotism ... And where were you patriots of your country when the USSR collapsed? There is no result of your patriotism - you are Utopian-Stalinists !!!

                    Передёргиваете. Результат личного патриотизма у каждого свой. Не беда тянущего лямку и не увольняющегося лейтёхи с полуголодной семьёй из 90-х, что у партаппаратчиков, замутивших развал СССР, этого патриотизма не оказалось. Где он был тогда? Да сгинул где-то в "конфликтах низкой интенсивности". Нет результата? Результат есть - Вы с уютного дивана можете обвинять вот таких невзрачных патриотов в утопизме совершенно безнаказанно. Гулять по улицам вечером, опять же. А что развалили - так ещё не кончено ничего. Посмотрим, чья возьмет.
              2. A.TOR
                A.TOR 26 February 2020 13: 02 New
                -5
                Adepts - as a rule - are losers, and therefore anger. For everything: in the sun (blinds, you bastard), in the wind (blowing, you can catch a cold), on the smiles of people (they smile, reptile, instead of working)
              3. Genry
                Genry 26 February 2020 13: 13 New
                +3
                Quote: Nasr
                the adherents of the immense faith in Stalin are very embittered and cruel.

                Well, about millions of murders and rivers of blood - this is the propaganda of an affectionate Liberda.
                And it is precisely this thesis that covers the theme of control by party KGB officials (communist bosses). Under Stalin, this control was absolute. But Nikita came and strictly forbade all types of control. Oh, and immediately began seething and decomposition ....
              4. bober1982
                bober1982 26 February 2020 14: 28 New
                -6
                Quote: Genry
                Under Stalin, this control was absolute. But Nikita came and strictly forbade all types of control

                This is because everything happened so that both acted according to the general party line, it may seem unbelievable - but, all according to the teachings of Trotsky, who was still in an article in 1904 Our political objectives (брошюра "О партии"), таким вот образом определил главные партийные задачи,а именно : ........... Аппарат партии замещает партию, ЦК замещает аппарат и,наконец,диктатор замещает ЦК.
                And then - Stalin managed to break the ridge of Trotsky and received dictatorial powers, Khrushchev again broke the entire anti-Party group (with the associate Shelepin) and received the same powers, etc.
                The party Central Committee and ordinary communists acted as extras.
              5. Genry
                Genry 26 February 2020 15: 16 New
                -2
                Quote: bober1982
                And then - Stalin managed to break the ridge of Trotsky and received dictatorial powers, Khrushchev again broke the entire anti-Party group (with the associate Shelepin) and received the same powers, etc.

                And why no one shouts that Khrushchev is a dictator ???
                The whole difference is in the system of control or lack of control of the communists at their posts.
                Under Stalin, there was no question of the formation of mafia party structures. It started with Khrushchev.
              6. bober1982
                bober1982 26 February 2020 18: 31 New
                -3
                Quote: Genry
                Under Stalin, there was no question of the formation of mafia party structures. It started with Khrushchev.

                This question, of unscrupulous party structures, was of Lenin’s concern, and you are blaming everything on Khrushchev, so to speak, inherited what to take from him.
              7. Genry
                Genry 26 February 2020 18: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: bober1982
                You dump everything on Khrushchev, so to speak, inherited.

                Ничего подобного.
                Under Stalin, all party leaders were under the supervision of the security service.
                When Khrushchev banned the supervision of party officials. After his removal, no one wanted to cancel this immunity. This led to the corruption of the CPSU mafia with the enrichment of a large number of functionaries and their falling under the influence of foreign intelligence services.
              8. bober1982
                bober1982 26 February 2020 18: 47 New
                -3
                Quote: Genry
                with the enrichment of a large number of functionaries and their falling under the influence of foreign intelligence services.

                These functionaries did not have any enrichment, except perhaps in the famous Obkomov buffets, but this is all petty and frivolous.
                The experiment could not last long, so the soap bubble burst, not Khrushchev, so someone else would have been in his place, maybe even worse than him.
              9. Genry
                Genry 26 February 2020 19: 04 New
                0
                Quote: bober1982
                These functionaries did not have any enrichment

                Serviced apartments, cottages, cars, collections (weapons, watches, coins, paintings, jewelry, ....), trips abroad, hunting, Japanese and Dutch electronics, children in the best universities ....
              10. bober1982
                bober1982 26 February 2020 19: 16 New
                -2
                Quote: Genry
                Serviced apartments, cottages, cars, collections (weapons, watches, paintings, jewelry, ....)

                This began under Lenin, with our great writer A. Tolstoy (nicknamed red graph), there was a small mansion and even a real doorman (this is already under Stalin), this is just a small modest example.
                And our illustrious commanders, peasant sons, of the bastard ones - post-war trophy cases, cottages full of gold, cars and collections, and corrupted creative bohemia - impudent and shameless, and beefy athletes, and other voracious engineers of human souls.
                Everything rotted, long before Khrushchev.
              11. Genry
                Genry 26 February 2020 19: 41 New
                +1
                Quote: bober1982
                Everything rotted, long before Khrushchev.

                Specifically, Khrushchev destroyed the principles of state stability. He was generally a jerk with two classes of education.
  2. figwam
    figwam 26 February 2020 13: 05 New
    -3
    Quote: Arzt
    The bourgeoisie was forced to work for money, the sound was not allowed to turn on.
    Whether business earlier ...

    Previously, when the Communists on the Internet, you could sit with sound))))
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Diana Ilyina
    Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 12: 13 New
    +5
    NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
    Where does this hatred come from? ...
    Hatred is too much to be felt towards you. Rather, you cause contempt, but not hatred.
    she probably prevents you from living?
    Not much.
    I do not hold you angry.
    I generally violet your opinion about me.
  5. Nasrat
    Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 24 New
    -6
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    Rather, you cause contempt, but not hatred.

    Your self-esteem is too high ... How did you manage to realize it in real life? It is interesting to listen to gentlemen like you (you can not listen to us despised plebs wassat) !!!
  6. Diana Ilyina
    Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 12: 36 New
    +7
    I already wrote to you, you can think of anything you like about me, Your opinion is deeply purple to me.
  7. Nasrat
    Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 47 New
    -6
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    I already wrote to you, you can think of anything you like about me, Your opinion is deeply purple to me.

    If my opinion doesn’t matter to you, why do you have to correspond with me for so long, and besides despising me, each time you answer my every word? !!! Something here doesn’t agree ... You are clearly nervous and nervous ... but for a person who puts himself above the one whom you despise - this is not natural!
    I sincerely wish you! I regret you immensely.
  8. Diana Ilyina
    Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 13: 06 New
    +5
    NasRat (Evlampy Spiridonovich)
    If my opinion doesn’t matter to you, why do you have to correspond with me for so long, and besides despising me, each time you answer my every word? !!!
    In my opinion, I clearly stated that I am not interested in your opinion about me personally, What's not clear?
    But your FALSE about Stalin should be exposed and ridiculed, which I do.
    You are clearly nervous excited ...
    What does this follow from? Not really a doctor and can you make a diagnosis from a distance? Strongly doubt it.
    I sincerely wish you! I regret you immensely.
    Save your pity for others, I don’t need it.
  9. Nasrat
    Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 34 New
    -6
    .
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    In my opinion, I clearly stated that I am not interested in your opinion about me personally, What's not clear?

    Dear, we personally started a conversation about you with your submission, when you personally expressed your disdain, who didn’t personally tell you, and so on, that’s why your insult on this subject is persistently rejected. Be consistent!
    .
    Quote: Diana Ilyina

    But your FALSE about Stalin should be exposed and ridiculed, which I do.

    Странное занятие у Вас разоблачать "кулаками", а не фактами, ниже я выложил пару документов - это факты(сходите обязательно заминусить laughing)
    .
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    ] What does this mean? Not really a doctor and can you make a diagnosis from a distance? Strongly doubt it.

    In vain you doubt ... I am fond of psychology and you are very nice to me, in this aspect ....
    Quote: Diana Ilyina
    Save your pity for others, I don’t need it.

    A little bit went for a female person ... but this again speaks of extreme excitement ...

    ps I’m afraid you won’t answer me anymore because I’ll say - I haven’t messed with you once - I’m interested in statistics ...
  10. Doctor
    Doctor 26 February 2020 13: 08 New
    -5
    You are clearly nervous excited ...

    Hold on, you're not alone!
    Us
    Rat
    drinks
  11. Alexander Suvorov
    Alexander Suvorov 26 February 2020 13: 40 New
    +3
    Arzt (Yuri)
    Hold on, you're not alone!
    Us Rat

    Yes, every foul-smelling substance in VO divorced quite a few.
  12. Nasrat
    Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 44 New
    -5
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov

    Yes, every foul-smelling substance in VO divorced quite a few.

    Why are you so about yourself? We didn’t talk about you like that ..
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Doctor
    Doctor 26 February 2020 14: 14 New
    -1
    Yes, every foul-smelling substance in VO divorced quite a few.

    It’s hard to live without a sense of humor, I understand. However, this is not Stalinist; Joseph Vissarionych always loved a good joke.
    If you did not understand, I wanted to show that the nickname Us Rat can be understood in different ways. You dreamed of one thing, but to me another.
    Well, as they say: to each - his ...
  15. passerby
    passerby 26 February 2020 13: 24 New
    -5
    I have only one question for you. Why did you choose such a disgusting nickname and avatar? Is this a mirror of your rotten soul and do they most accurately reflect your essence?

    I feel sorry for you. You remind me very much of those people who in the late 80s and early 90s just like you are now telling tales about the USSR of Stalin, telling tales of a happy life in the West, when every family has a country house, two cars and the stores are free to sell shortages. They also, like you, reproduced fairy tales and myths heard from someone and for all reasonable arguments, arguments and even documents shouting "You are lying." You are exactly the same, only with a different sign, those in the 80s extolled the West, you are the present, extol the USSR of Stalin without knowing anything and not even wanting to know about the USSR of Stalin. But if it was excusable for people from the 80s to extol the West - then there was no Internet and truthful information and documents were difficult to obtain, then this is not excusable for you.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 26 February 2020 11: 49 New
    -8
    I will tell you so. the more our children will listen to you, for example, and how you fight with any criticism of Stalin, the fewer those who understand him will remain among them. Why so much rudeness to the opposite opinion? you all call a lie that does not fit into your opinion. it is always striking. so go on)
  • Varyag71
    Varyag71 26 February 2020 13: 02 New
    0
    For business in Canada. Soviet man has nothing to do there. So you are alien and alien. I think from God's chosen people, who are now sending spam in the form of a crazy grandmother.
    Recently there was information that, as if a relative of one of the concentration camp prisoners told me that Auschwitz was liberated by the British or Americans, I don’t remember exactly, and the photo of Soviet reporters is photoshop.
    So don't give a shit, get outta here
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 26 February 2020 14: 34 New
      -8
      Quote: Varyag71
      For business in Canada. Soviet man has nothing to do there.

      Come on! wassat Tell Molotov about this, that there is nothing for the Soviet man to do in the USA and Great Britain ... especially during the Second World War ... wassat And after all, a person believes in what he says !!!! Fearfully....
      Adepts become smaller !!!
  • Machito
    Machito 26 February 2020 11: 45 New
    +9
    А бабушка случайно не дочь офицера из Крыма, где не так все однозначно? Как говорил Остап Бендер:"При современном уровне печати на Западе можно сварганить любую фальшивку."
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 31 New
      -8
      Quote: Bearded
      А бабушка случайно не дочь офицера из Крыма, где не так все однозначно? Как говорил Остап Бендер:"При современном уровне печати на Западе можно сварганить любую фальшивку."


      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Nasrat
        Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 37 New
        -4
        that's 38 years .... Beria condemns, the document that is laid out above ... and signed by Stalin
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 26 February 2020 12: 38 New
          -6
          but in 53 Beria continues to condemn ..

          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 12 New
            -6
            That's what is interesting, I bring the documents signed personally by Stalin, Beria-still minus ... wassat denial of the obvious fact !!!!

            For the adherents of Stalin, these are all documents from the daughter of an officer ... wassat

            I still have a lot of documents ... will you minus everything ???? bully



            1. Nasrat
              Nasrat 26 February 2020 13: 21 New
              -6
              опять 53 год .."странный" приказ от Берия, уж не дочь ли он офицера? :

            2. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 26 February 2020 15: 35 New
              +6
              Should the pages you provide have any special effect?
              Or did you see something unusual in the fact that state security agencies use methods of physical influence or that the state is always an apparatus of coercion? Is somewhere else happening in the world? The order quite naturally appeared after the merger of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of State Security - what can be second, not first, given that these prisons were transferred to another department.
            3. Nasrat
              Nasrat 26 February 2020 20: 58 New
              -2
              Quote: A vile skeptic
              Should the pages you provide have any special effect?

              Of course not ... this is so commonplace for you when they torture and shoot ... and then they give out orders that would not do it anymore ... Stalin wanted the best ... Is that right? You even expect triplets and executions - and 58 article would be soldered to half of the country and build channels in the Gulag - you forget that those who shot them, then they shot themselves ... and then they wonder why the party elite did not want to live according to Stalinsky ... probably tired of the genius and simplicity of political life - who do not agree to be shot - you know what the result is - the collapse of the USSR and the fault of not only the Khrushchev and Gorbachev - the fault of Stalin, whose policies shunned the country's elite after his death ...
              And today, people like you convince you to live according to Stalinsky .... it’s naivety turning into paranoia ...
            4. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 08: 38 New
              0
              Of course not...

              Then the purpose of their publication by you? Especially in the context of the initial message from the video about the grandmother? It’s not bad for you.
              it is so common for you

              it is common for any state apparatus to have in its composition a body that violates human rights in cases established by the apparatus itself. Or do you think that after this order he ceased to take place? I kind of explained the essence of the order in my message, but you decided not to understand it. Talking about the naivety of others.
              You even wait for threes and shootings

              Really?
              And today, people like you convince you to live according to Stalin ...

              Which like me? And what am I, for that matter?
              In Stalin's style - how is it?
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 26 February 2020 12: 16 New
    -4
    Quote: Nasr
    I understand that your Faith in Stalin has become like faith in Jesus ... but mocking your grandmother is not worth it ...

    Why not, they mock themselves)))))
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 13: 15 New
      -2
      )))))


      the choice of these grandmothers, who die over liberda and others - you have suffered for 30 years. This is where smileys should be drawn.
      It was they who, as a result, did not scoff at themselves, but over the opposition.

  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Nasr
    your Faith in Stalin has become like faith in Jesus.

    Stalin continued the work of Jesus.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 26 February 2020 11: 49 New
    -6
    which ones? are there only two opinions yours and wrong?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 26 February 2020 13: 05 New
        +1
        one more ..... got out. stop being rude to strangers already. will be healthier in life
        1. Varyag71
          Varyag71 26 February 2020 13: 35 New
          0
          you, liberal something is not something to be rude, you have to put you against the wall
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 26 February 2020 13: 47 New
            0
            I can give an address) come and put) Internet hero
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 26 February 2020 15: 06 New
                -2
                well, then close means a hero. and do not go around with your rudeness if you are afraid to answer for it. you don’t know how to talk like normal people and go by. already got it. Pug runs on branches and yapping at those who can’t straighten his brains. an example of masculinity and heroism damn it. I’m sure in life the same moral squalor.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Varyag71
                Varyag71 26 February 2020 15: 44 New
                +3
                Are You Normal?! you're a jerk, like so many trolls here.
              4. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 26 February 2020 15: 46 New
                -3
                are free. further communication with the haml is not possible. all that I think I have already told you. I didn’t bring any country. I'm not a troll but an ordinary person with my own opinion.
              5. Varyag71
                Varyag71 26 February 2020 15: 49 New
                +4
                Yes, everyone already knows your opinion. Either praise reality, or assent in the same way.
              6. Nameless
                Nameless 27 February 2020 18: 02 New
                0
                Зато вы молодой человек решили таким образом самоутвердиться в этом мире за счёт поддакивания интернетным "борцунам с режимом", которым Путин по ночам спать не даёт осознанием того что у руля он, а не они. Поздравляю - вы теперь их пушечное мясо, я бы даже сказал шестёрка, прихвостень, миньон...
                Oh, I'm afraid for your fate, young man - no matter how you end up as a terrorist ISIS!
              7. Varyag71
                Varyag71 28 February 2020 08: 00 New
                -1
                I have my own opinion. If everything suits you, congratulations, you are a traitor to the people and the six of power.
              8. Nameless
                Nameless 28 February 2020 12: 03 New
                0
                Yes, you don’t have a damn thing about your opinion - you have it the same as the rest of the fanatics. But it was expected that you would call me a traitor to the people and the six powers - after all, it is neostalinists and communists who do not tolerate absolutely any dissent, because the only true opinion is their opinion, the opinion of the Sun-faced Apollo-like Demigods who Know the Absolute Truth of the Universe laughing
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 26 February 2020 13: 43 New
    +4
    Quote: Nasr
    I don’t specifically give any comments, only your comment about your grandmother and a video with another grandmother ... no comment ...
    Who is going to minus - Minus will be a video story, ... a story about the life of my grandmother (the one from the video), about life under Stalin. Minus the lives of ordinary people under Stalin ....

    And why are you Eulampy Spiridonych hiding behind the backs of grandmothers? Not solid. Grandmothers blame minusators, but they themselves wanted to get hold of pluses on grandmother? That, essentially, the figures of Stalin, what do you think? winked
  • Alexander Suvorov
    Alexander Suvorov 26 February 2020 11: 14 New
    +4
    St Petrov
    PS The current CPRF franchise would cry if Stalin suddenly appeared from nowhere. They would whimper in horror. Stalin would have been surprised to look at the party and Zyuganov and Grudinin
    Yes, Zyuganov would pair with Grudinin for distillation would break the rocket overtake, as in that joke about the khrushch.
    As for me, for me, my grandfather gave the best assessment to Stalin when he hung his portrait, which was presented to me at school, over the head of the bed instead of the icon and was very proud that I was awarded his portrait. There was no highest praise for me in my life.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 26 February 2020 11: 25 New
    +7
    My mother said that everyone nearby was crying.
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 26 February 2020 11: 59 New
    0
    Stalin, like the USSR, did not become a thing of the past, but dissolved in the future!
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 26 February 2020 12: 05 New
    -4
    Quote: s-t Petrov
    would cry

    bloody tears
  • Svarog
    Svarog 26 February 2020 12: 10 New
    +6
    Quote: s-t Petrov
    my grandmother cried when they buried Stalin. So firsthand I know that man was great

    PS The current CPRF franchise would cry if Stalin suddenly appeared from nowhere. They would whimper in horror. Stalin would have been surprised to look at the party and Zyuganov and Grudinin

    Petrov, Stalin would first of all sort out those who are now steering the country .. although I agree, Zyu might have also smeared his forehead with green stuff .. but for cowardice and infantility ... And Grudinin, unlike Zyu, is not a coward a gram, put everything on the line, go Zyu threw it ..
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 13: 07 New
      -5
      And Grudinin, unlike Zyu, not a gram of a coward, put everything on the line, Zu threw him ..


      First of all, Grudinin threw you as his voter and a franchise on behalf of which he went to the presidency when he did not tell about gold and accounts abroad wassat

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/this-russian-presidential-contender-has-zero-chance-against-putin-but-a-man-can-dream/2018/01/05/defcee7a-f0d1-11e7-95e3-eff284e71c8d_story.html

      it's for dessert wassat
  • Svarog
    Svarog 26 February 2020 12: 11 New
    +2
    Quote: s-t Petrov
    my grandmother cried when they buried Stalin.

    I think your grandmother would cry, knowing whose interests the granddaughter defends ..
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 13: 08 New
      -3
      I think your grandmother would cry, knowing whose interests the granddaughter defends ..


      listed
  • Doctor
    Doctor 26 February 2020 11: 00 New
    -15
    Here is the assessment of Stalin’s people now.

    This was expressed by those who love him. If the flower per person, not so much nationwide.
    Those who do not love were afraid of the penalty for desecration. But there are not so many of them either.
    Most do not care.
    And a third of young people do not know who he is at all.
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 26 February 2020 11: 08 New
      +8
      Arzt (Yuri)
      This was expressed by those who love him. If the flower per person, not so much nationwide.
      Do not shift your fantasies to reality. Not the whole country has the opportunity to visit Red Square. At least in this bunch of flowers my bouquet is missing. And not a couple of carnations, but quite a normal bouquet.
      Those who do not love were afraid of the penalty for desecration.
      What kind of underpants then? But normal people were not afraid and, in spite of any fines, showed their true attitude to the drunk, Solzhenitsyn, Mannerheim and other anti-people figures.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 26 February 2020 11: 17 New
        -11
        But normal people

        Do you think they are normal?
        I also don’t like Eltsin, but I’m not going to smear shit on someone’s grave.
        Let frolic, IT loves it.
  • Alexander Suvorov
    Alexander Suvorov 26 February 2020 11: 02 New
    15
    Ну да, разве можно сравнить с "любовью" народа к алкашу?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 26 February 2020 11: 10 New
      -14
      Ну да, разве можно сравнить с "любовью" народа к алкашу

      I agree. But you have to wait 50 years.
      Perhaps we will see the monuments to the Great Democrat.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 February 2020 13: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
      разве можно сравнить с "любовью" народа к алкашу?

      В 1997 году мы с шурином приехали к его родителям в Смоленской области, и шурин имел неосторожность алкаша назвать алкашом, так сразу от своей родни получил "народную любовь". Вечеринку по нашему прибытию в деревню Костинка, пришлось отменить.
  • knn54
    knn54 26 February 2020 11: 03 New
    11
    Was in the summer of 1976 in the Mausoleum. When leaving (he was part of a group, they entered second after the Bulgarians). ONLY near the bust of Stalin lay two carnations.
    Сегодня Он сродни "лакмусовой бумаги"-Патриот или либерал,судя по отношению.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 February 2020 12: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: DMB 75
    Here is the assessment of Stalin’s people now.

    Хотелось бы посмотреть, а сколько цветов лежит у мавзолея "истинному демократу" Ельцыну.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 26 February 2020 15: 13 New
    +5
    DMB
    You are right.
    But there are * sv ....... chi * which ...
    They waited that * Kolya Urengoy * apologized to the Nazis for being killed on OUR LAND .....
    Over in Europe, they demand the trial of OUR HEROES who destroyed the Nazi officers ....
    Now we will wait for the trial of SUPREME CHIEF COMMANDER JOSEPH VISSARIONOVICH STALIN for what led Hitler to suicide.
    By the way, the current democrats and other liberals condemn and resent in a single outburst with Caucasians, why is it such a tender friendship with those who raised the Nazis, and then served under them? AND?
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 15: 28 New
    0
    The fact that loyal fanatics wear flowers on his bust does not mean that ALL (i.e., the vast majority) people love him.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2020 10: 53 New
    +6
    This is a story, such as it was.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 26 February 2020 10: 59 New
      +4
      Stalin is not a thing of the past, he is a thing of the future.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 26 February 2020 11: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: paul3390
        Stalin is not a thing of the past, he is a thing of the future.

        Многие оставляют после себя "наследство", разное.
        Estimates and events can divide our country for a long time, until it reaches everyone that history, whatever it was, then there is, what would unite us all.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 26 February 2020 13: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Многие оставляют после себя "наследство", разное.

          They will not remember Gorbachev and Yeltsin, they will forget Brezhnev and Putin, but they will never forget Lenin and Stalin, whatever they talk about.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 26 February 2020 14: 37 New
            0
            As in the old, Soviet joke ... about the leader Lenya in the era of Alla!
            Maybe so, though, you can’t forget anything, so as not to repeat the previous mistakes.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 26 February 2020 16: 03 New
              0
              Quote: rocket757
              about the leader Lenya in the era of Alla!

              После последней мировой войны остался один человек, Рейган. Сидит довольный и вдруг дубинкой по черепушке. Вопрос "Кто убил Рейгена ?" Ответ "Вечно живой Ленин". Можно всё забыть, но анекдоту более живучи.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 26 February 2020 17: 01 New
                0
                Everything is correct .... ideology, slogans, correct speeches are created / written by a person, and JOKTS ARE BORN BY THE PEOPLE, life itself! It's forever!
    2. passerby
      passerby 26 February 2020 11: 01 New
      -19
      Lessons must be learned from history, and people instead are held captive by myths about the "beautiful Soviet past" and the "great USSR led by Comrade Stalin." For example, you knew that Stalin essentially turned the workers into serfs. In the period from 1940 to 1956, the employee without the permission of the boss did not have the right to quit his job. At the same time, for repeated being late for work or having lunch or leaving work ahead of time for more than 20 minutes, was imprisonment provided?
      1. Soviet Union
        Soviet Union 26 February 2020 11: 07 New
        +9
        Pass by ... as usual.
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 10 New
        +4
        Quote: bystander
        Stalin essentially turned the workers into serfs.

        Now try to be late or take a walk - the owner will fire.
        In wartime conditions, or in a continuous production cycle, the absence of a key employee to work stopped the entire conveyor ... So no need !!
        Quote: bystander
        was imprisonment provided?

        just like that - forced labor ... But if you didn’t go to work in forced labor, it was regarded as a violation of the punishment regime - a criminal offense!
        1. passerby
          passerby 26 February 2020 11: 13 New
          -13
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Quote: bystander
          Stalin essentially turned the workers into serfs.

          Now try to be late or take a walk - the owner will fire.
          In wartime conditions, or in a continuous production cycle, the absence of a key employee to work stopped the entire conveyor ... So no need !!
          Quote: bystander
          was imprisonment provided?

          just like that - forced labor ... But if you didn’t go to work in forced labor, it was regarded as a violation of the punishment regime - a criminal offense!

          So I say - turned into serfs who could not even quit their jobs on their own. And it was not only about wartime or continuous production, it was about any production, including in peacetime.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 26 New
            +4
            Quote: bystander
            And it was not only about wartime or continuous production, it was about any production, including in peacetime.

            and you know, the criminal responsibility was for disrupting the assignment of the Party and the government, the bosses were forced to think and live almost like workers wassat
            1. passerby
              passerby 26 February 2020 11: 33 New
              -12
              So I’m saying that you have nothing to object to because Comrade Stalin in 1940 revived serfdom in our country, abolished in the 19th century and turned the workers into serf slaves.
              1. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 26 February 2020 12: 09 New
                +9
                random passerby (Igor)
                So I’m saying that you have nothing to object to because Comrade Stalin in 1940 revived serfdom in our country, abolished in the 19th century and turned the workers into serf slaves.
                It is now that we live as serfs, and under Stalin everything was exactly the opposite. And the fact that it was necessary to work, so the time was.
                1. passerby
                  passerby 26 February 2020 12: 43 New
                  -5
                  Quote: Diana Ilyina
                  random passerby (Igor)
                  So I’m saying that you have nothing to object to because Comrade Stalin in 1940 revived serfdom in our country, abolished in the 19th century and turned the workers into serf slaves.
                  It is now that we live as serfs, and under Stalin everything was exactly the opposite. And the fact that it was necessary to work, so the time was.

                  You your thesis that we now live as serfs, and under Stalin everything was the other way around, can you somehow substantiate? As for “it was necessary to work,” it is always necessary to work, only you can work as a serf slave who is unable to get anywhere from your exploiter, as it was under Stalin, but you can now, when you can get up and go to another place at any time work, if you don’t like something on the previous one and no one can stop you under the law and cannot tell you where you will work.
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 26 February 2020 18: 43 New
                    0
                    Quote: bystander
                    when you can get up at any moment and go to another place of work, if you don’t like something at the previous one and no one can stop you by law and cannot tell you where you will work.

                    А сейчас попрыгунчикав ох как не любят, больше чем когда либо. На Западе когда ты приходишь устраиваться на работу, сразу требуют письменный отзыв от предыдущих хозяев. И первый вопрос "Почему вы за год сменили три фирмы ?" Отвечать не нужно сразу "Гуляй Вася". Второй вопрос "Почему вы идёте на зарплату ниже прежней, или на должность ниже ?" Опять "Гуляй Вася". Меня один раз попросили в английской фирме пойти на должность ниже, но с условием сохранения прежней зарплаты, и если я уйду из этой фирмы то в отзыве будет фигурировать прежняя должность". Я думаю и в России такие же порядки.
                    1. passerby
                      passerby 27 February 2020 06: 25 New
                      0
                      Quote: tihonmarine
                      Quote: bystander
                      when you can get up at any moment and go to another place of work, if you don’t like something at the previous one and no one can stop you by law and cannot tell you where you will work.

                      А сейчас попрыгунчикав ох как не любят, больше чем когда либо. На Западе когда ты приходишь устраиваться на работу, сразу требуют письменный отзыв от предыдущих хозяев. И первый вопрос "Почему вы за год сменили три фирмы ?" Отвечать не нужно сразу "Гуляй Вася". Второй вопрос "Почему вы идёте на зарплату ниже прежней, или на должность ниже ?" Опять "Гуляй Вася". Меня один раз попросили в английской фирме пойти на должность ниже, но с условием сохранения прежней зарплаты, и если я уйду из этой фирмы то в отзыве будет фигурировать прежняя должность". Я думаю и в России такие же порядки.


                      Now there is a key difference - now for the dismissal of their own free will without the permission of the boss, they are not sent to prison.
                      1. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 27 February 2020 12: 57 New
                        0
                        Quote: bystander
                        Now there is a key difference - now for the dismissal of their own free will without the permission of the boss, they are not sent to prison.

                        And then nobody was planted, listen more to the adherents of Goebbels and various Guzmans, Pozners and the like.
                      2. passerby
                        passerby 27 February 2020 16: 54 New
                        -1
                        Enlighten yourself on health. You can find these documents yourself on the Internet, they are in the help information systems and come back from your world of illusions, where one Goebels propaganda defames the "great Stalin" into the ordinary world.

                        According to the order of the People's Commissar of Justice of the USSR and the Prosecutor of the USSR No. 84/133 of July 22, 1940, workers and employees who were more than 20 minutes late without good reason after a lunch break or unauthorized departure from work earlier than 20 minutes before a lunch break or the end of the working day should also be brought to justice, as for absenteeism, in part 2 of article 5 of the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of June 26, 1940

                        According to the decision of the plenum of the Supreme Court of the USSR of July 23, 1940. In those cases when a convicted person for absenteeism without good reason for corrective labor at the place of work during the serving of this sentence commits new absenteeism without good reason, such actions of the convicted person should be considered as evading serving the sentence imposed by the court. In this case, in relation to Article 26 of the Correctional Labor Code of the RSFSR and the corresponding articles of the National Customs Code of other union republics, the unserved term of corrective labor is replaced by imprisonment for the same period.
                        Quote: tihonmarine
                        Quote: bystander
                        Now there is a key difference - now for the dismissal of their own free will without the permission of the boss, they are not sent to prison.

                        And then nobody was planted, listen more to the adherents of Goebbels and various Guzmans, Pozners and the like.
                    2. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 2 March 2020 12: 47 New
                      -1
                      Quote: bystander
                      Now there is a key difference - now for the dismissal of their own free will without the permission of the boss, they are not sent to prison.

                      Are you talking about unauthorized withdrawal without the permission of the boss from a sensitive facility? - even as they plant !!! In Chernobyl, one such left laughing laughing laughing
                    3. passerby
                      passerby 2 March 2020 13: 03 New
                      -1
                      No, not about that. I’ve written to you many times about what, but you prefer to pretend that you don’t understand anything. Well, your right.
                    4. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 2 March 2020 13: 08 New
                      -1
                      do not mix the hedgehog with snake. consonant but different.
                    5. passerby
                      passerby 3 March 2020 08: 02 New
                      -1
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      do not mix the hedgehog with snake. consonant but different.
                      What did you want to say?
                    6. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 3 March 2020 08: 20 New
                      -1
                      voluntary dismissal guaranteed right of the worker! Unauthorized care is a violation of labor discipline.
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 26 February 2020 22: 24 New
          -1
          Quote: bystander
          but under Stalin it was the other way round, can you justify it somehow?

          can I try to justify? - one word Perspective! then there was the prospect of a happy life. Russia for 5 years from 30 to 35 years. ceased to be barefoot. Real benefits and nishtyaki appeared for people, and social justice appeared in the distribution of material wealth. People, former peasants, went to rest on the Black Sea! And now? while I work for me 300 sq.m. living space and two wage earners ... sixth dozen .. But will I retire or get sick? Yes, paid medicine for the tests will tear to the last. Despite my age, I have two children, 8 and 11 years old. Where to learn to give them? where are the promising areas? What are the country's oil reserves at last? What are the prospects for the capitalists who have become uncompetitive? yes no! gobble up!
          1. passerby
            passerby 27 February 2020 06: 16 New
            0
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Quote: bystander
            but under Stalin it was the other way round, can you justify it somehow?

            can I try to justify? - one word Perspective! then there was the prospect of a happy life. Russia for 5 years from 30 to 35 years. ceased to be barefoot. Real benefits and nishtyaki appeared for people, and social justice appeared in the distribution of material wealth. People, former peasants, went to rest on the Black Sea! And now? while I work for me 300 sq.m. living space and two wage earners ... sixth dozen .. But will I retire or get sick? Yes, paid medicine for the tests will tear to the last. Despite my age, I have two children, 8 and 11 years old. Where to learn to give them? where are the promising areas? What are the country's oil reserves at last? What are the prospects for the capitalists who have become uncompetitive? yes no! gobble up!

            Do you not really see that you are not operating with facts, but with myths. The end of the 20s, the beginning of the 30s, the beginning of the policy of a big turnaround, famine, collectivization and the transformation by 1935 of peasants into serfs who could not leave their collective farm without permission. What benefits and what "nishtyaki" appeared, list? You perceive that time through the prism of propaganda films of that time, but in reality there were supplies for the export of bread and other food products from the USSR while hunger raged in the country and children died from it. As for the present time, now there are certainly many shortcomings and a lot of work to be done, but probably in the modern history of our country people have never lived so freely and well as they do now. Everyone forges his own happiness and no one can tell anyone where to live and what to do. Right now there is this very perspective that you are talking about. If you want to build life in Russia - build, if you want to go to another country - go, everything is in your hands and it depends only on you
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 27 February 2020 08: 20 New
              -1
              Quote: bystander
              The end of the 20s, the beginning of the 30s, the beginning of the policy of a big turnaround, famine, collectivization and the transformation by 1935 of peasants into serfs who could not leave their collective farm without permission.

              how could they not? fool yes nationwide construction! to study!
            2. passerby
              passerby 27 February 2020 09: 27 New
              -1
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: bystander
              The end of the 20s, the beginning of the 30s, the beginning of the policy of a big turnaround, famine, collectivization and the transformation by 1935 of peasants into serfs who could not leave their collective farm without permission.

              how could they not? fool yes nationwide construction! to study!

              Only if they were recruited for construction or study, and if the recruiter did not come to the village, then they could not, and if it was still possible to go to another village until 1935, where the recruiters arrived, after 1935 even the peasants were deprived of this opportunity.
            3. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 27 February 2020 11: 35 New
              -1
              Quote: bystander
              after 1935, even this opportunity was deprived of peasants.

              but returned after 37 years smile
            4. passerby
              passerby 27 February 2020 17: 03 New
              -1
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: bystander
              after 1935, even this opportunity was deprived of peasants.

              but returned after 37 years smile

              Could you give more details about what was returned in 1937?
  • Varyag71
    Varyag71 26 February 2020 13: 05 New
    +2
    Is there a day off in the nuthouse?
    1. passerby
      passerby 26 February 2020 14: 12 New
      -4
      I feel sorry for you. You remind me very much of those people who in the late 80s and early 90s just like you are now telling tales about the USSR of Stalin, telling tales of a happy life in the West, when every family has a country house, two cars and the stores are free to sell shortages. They also, like you, reproduced fairy tales and myths heard from someone and for all reasonable arguments, arguments and even documents shouting "You are lying." You are exactly the same, only with a different sign, those in the 80s extolled the West, you are the present, extol the USSR of Stalin without knowing anything and not even wanting to know about the USSR of Stalin. But if it was excusable for people from the 80s to extol the West - then there was no Internet and truthful information and documents were difficult to obtain, then this is not excusable for you.
      Quote: Varyag71
      Is there a day off in the nuthouse?
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2020 18: 49 New
        0
        Quote: bystander

        I feel sorry for you.

        Богатые бедных не жалеют. Из ваших коментов я понял, что вы преуспевающий бизнесмен, или такой ценный сотрудник, которого все хотят иметь, и платят вам баснословные деньги. Ну зачем тогда вы тут общаетесь с нищетой и неровней с Вами. Для богатых и успешных людей есть другие сайты. И жалеть нас не нужно, как то обходились без "жалельщиков".
        1. passerby
          passerby 27 February 2020 05: 59 New
          0
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: bystander

          I feel sorry for you.

          Богатые бедных не жалеют. Из ваших коментов я понял, что вы преуспевающий бизнесмен, или такой ценный сотрудник, которого все хотят иметь, и платят вам баснословные деньги. Ну зачем тогда вы тут общаетесь с нищетой и неровней с Вами. Для богатых и успешных людей есть другие сайты. И жалеть нас не нужно, как то обходились без "жалельщиков".

          You need to feel sorry and explain how the USSR was arranged and how the present world is arranged. If you do not do this, then, guided by myths and fairy tales, you will make the wrong decisions and thereby drive yourself and the whole country into a dead end. So it was in the late 90s. Then people began to tell that they had been deceived, but in fact at that time they themselves were glad to be deceived and simply did not accept the facts and arguments that led them. Exactly the same as you are doing now. And before that, the same thing happened in 1916-1917. We all saw the consequences of this.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2020 12: 54 New
            0
            Quote: bystander
            You need to feel sorry and explain how the USSR was arranged and how the present world is arranged.

            You feel sorry for yourself, but I don’t need it, I already have children and grandchildren. And in the outside world I shook for more than 50 years, and I realized that there is nothing good in their world. So I can still feel sorry for you.
          2. passerby
            passerby 27 February 2020 17: 08 New
            -1
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Quote: bystander
            You need to feel sorry and explain how the USSR was arranged and how the present world is arranged.

            You feel sorry for yourself, but I don’t need it, I already have children and grandchildren. And in the outside world I shook for more than 50 years, and I realized that there is nothing good in their world. So I can still feel sorry for you.

            I assure you that I do not need to feel sorry anyway :)
  • Sklendarka
    Sklendarka 26 February 2020 11: 47 New
    +6
    An accidental passerby, I accidentally walked by, imagine, I’ve been working for the 45th year and will tell you one secret, I’ve never been late for work yet. And where does Stalin ???, I was born after his death ...
    1. passerby
      passerby 26 February 2020 12: 45 New
      -2
      Quote: Skalendarka
      An accidental passerby, I accidentally walked by, imagine, I’ve been working for the 45th year and will tell you one secret, I’ve never been late for work yet. And where does Stalin ???, I was born after his death ...

      And what do you mean by that? Do you even understand the meaning of what I wrote?
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 29 February 2020 16: 40 New
    -1
    Quote: bystander
    So I say - turned into serfs who could not even quit their jobs on their own.

    They could! read the decision of the Council of People’s Commissars and the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions from 23.12.38, clause 3 stipulates the possibility of dismissal at will one month after writing the corresponding statement. Serfs did not have the right to write statements, only petition to the king!
    1. passerby
      passerby 2 March 2020 05: 55 New
      -1
      You are mistaken, this is not so, I have already given you links to the document.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 2 March 2020 07: 04 New
        -1
        I read your document, there about AUTHORIZED CARE from work. Have you read the motivation part of your document ???
        1. passerby
          passerby 2 March 2020 10: 03 New
          -1
          What does unauthorized care mean? I wrote a letter of resignation and, according to the current legislation, I have the right not to go to work after 2 weeks. According to the Decree of 26.06.1940/2/10, I can write at least a thousand applications for dismissal, but without receiving PERMISSIONS from my boss, I will be obliged to go to work in two weeks and in XNUMX years and XNUMX years, and if I do not, I will be put in jail. What is not clear or incomprehensible here? Or do you again see no differences?
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 2 March 2020 12: 37 New
            -1
            Quote: bystander
            I can write at least a thousand resignations,

            Writing justified by your credulity smile You wrote a statement, and the boss will at least calculate tomorrow if the machine has someone to deliver. 2 weeks to the boss, you are given a replacement search. I also met the USSR Railway Charter, where the working month and the engineering and technical personnel needed to work out 2 months.
            1. passerby
              passerby 2 March 2020 13: 11 New
              -1
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: bystander
              I can write at least a thousand resignations,

              Writing justified by your credulity smile You wrote a statement, and the boss will at least calculate tomorrow if the machine has someone to deliver. 2 weeks to the boss, you are given a replacement search. I also met the USSR Railway Charter, where the working month and the engineering and technical personnel needed to work out 2 months.

              You can open a textbook on labor law, it is called "Actual issues of labor law: a textbook for masters / M.I. Akatnova, A.A. Andreev, E.N. Bondarenko et al. editor N.L. Lyutov. M.: Prospect, 2017 s. Chapter 688 paragraph 1. So in this textbook, scientists, doctors of science write exactly what I am writing to you, but you can continue to “Do not believe” your eyes.
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 2 March 2020 15: 05 New
                -1
                open better the Labor Code, by the way about the dismissal in your textbook there is not a word
              2. passerby
                passerby 3 March 2020 08: 05 New
                -1
                Quote: aybolyt678
                open better the Labor Code, by the way about the dismissal in your textbook there is not a word

                Read Chapter 1, paragraph 3, clause 3.3, paragraph 7.
              3. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 3 March 2020 08: 22 New
                -1
                Quote: bystander
                Read Chapter 1, paragraph 3, clause 3.3, paragraph 7

                and what page?
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 2 March 2020 15: 19 New
            -1
            Hooray found! 33-34 page! dismissals were not prohibited but flyers lost grocery cards
          3. passerby
            passerby 3 March 2020 08: 06 New
            -1
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Hooray found! 33-34 page! dismissals were not prohibited but flyers lost grocery cards

            What document are you writing about?
          4. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 3 March 2020 08: 40 New
            -1
            “Actual issues of labor law: a textbook for masters / M.I. Akatnova, A.A. Andreev, E.N. Bondarenko et al. editor N.L. Lyutov. M.: Prospect, 2017 s.

            "
            In the first half of the 30s. a kind of “great re-
            scrap ”in Soviet labor law. He marked his predominantly-
            a new orientation towards solving production problems. From 1930–1931
            the attraction of workers to work on weekends was simplified, and
            wages began to be issued outside working hours (and not during working hours,
            as required by the Labor Code). Dismissals of one’s own free will were not forbidden, but “flyers” (persons prone to frequent job changes)
            could be deprived of unemployment benefits, grocery cards
            and evicted from departmental housing. These measures were introduced predominantly
            Actually by-laws on industrial necessity
            and even with reference, which is especially cynical, to the "requests of the working people."
            Approval by Decree of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of December 20, 1938 of labor
            exit books for all employees who worked more than 5 days, had
            pronounced administrative (“for the purpose of labor accounting”)
            and even punitive in nature (to identify "not involved in the work").
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2020 11: 20 New
    +2
    Брякнуть всякое, это сейчас "мастеров" много, а вот обосновать, доказать .... забыли многие, что за "базар" надо отвечать, а потом удивляются, почему их перестают слушать, не верят им таким, сяким ...
    1. passerby
      passerby 26 February 2020 12: 58 New
      -6
      Quote: rocket757
      Брякнуть всякое, это сейчас "мастеров" много, а вот обосновать, доказать .... забыли многие, что за "базар" надо отвечать, а потом удивляются, почему их перестают слушать, не верят им таким, сяким ...
      Do you need links to regulatory documents of the USSR?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 26 February 2020 13: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: bystander
        Do you need links to regulatory documents of the USSR?

        The question is what and to whom do you want to PROVE?
        The fact that the whole history of the Land of Soviets is not a paradise at all, it is ALL THOUGHT people who already understand it.
        The fact that from what it was, it could turn out almost paradise, there was such a probability, but it did not work out ....
        The fact that NOW is not a paradise at all and it can never become such, without fundamental / revolutionary changes, is also quite obvious ...
        So to refute, to prove that ???
        1. passerby
          passerby 26 February 2020 14: 10 New
          -6
          After all, you asked “to substantiate, prove”, so I ask, what proof of my theses do you need? Documents or something else?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 26 February 2020 14: 24 New
            +3
            The fact that the majority already knows everything, understands, has nothing to do with what you want to prove?
            The direct question is - what do you want to PROVE?
            1. passerby
              passerby 26 February 2020 14: 29 New
              -6
              Quote: rocket757
              The fact that the majority already knows everything, understands, has nothing to do with what you want to prove?
              The direct question is - what do you want to PROVE?

              Stalin turned the citizens of the USSR into serfs. I wrote about this exactly, what is not clear or incomprehensible here?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 26 February 2020 14: 43 New
                +1
                Quote: bystander
                Stalin turned the citizens of the USSR into serfs. I wrote about this exactly, what is not clear or incomprehensible here?

                The question has no easy answer. On formal grounds it will not be possible to explain everything, to prove. How else? Emotional reasoning can not be approached ...
                The situation is stalemate, neither here nor here.
                1. passerby
                  passerby 26 February 2020 14: 47 New
                  -4
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Quote: bystander
                  Stalin turned the citizens of the USSR into serfs. I wrote about this exactly, what is not clear or incomprehensible here?

                  The question has no easy answer. On formal grounds it will not be possible to explain everything, to prove. How else? Emotional reasoning can not be approached ...
                  The situation is stalemate, neither here nor here.

                  Yes, what kind of emotional reasoning is there? I give specific facts, but in response I just hear emotional reasoning, not supported by the facts about "how good it was under Stalin."
                2. rocket757
                  rocket757 26 February 2020 14: 56 New
                  +3
                  Formal question - Who owned the means of production?
                  Кто присваивал результаты труда "рабов"? Как "рабам" могла выплачиваться зарплата за произведённый труд, при рабовладении такого НЕ ПРЕДУСМОТРЕНО ВООБЩЕ??? и далее по списку ....
                3. passerby
                  passerby 26 February 2020 15: 09 New
                  -6
                  They had to feed the slaves, and so they were paid so that they would not stretch their legs, to whom were workdays, to whom rations, and to whom and money. The means of production belonged to the state, which was controlled by dictator Stalin. The state appropriated the results of labor. You will study the Preobrazhensky-Feldman model, everything was very intelligibly written about what was due to which industrialization in the USSR was to be financed. From the late 20s and early 30s, it was this very model in its most cruel version that was implemented in the USSR, and Bukharin, Rykov and the company, who did not agree with this, were called right-wing deviators and later put to the wall. The result of this policy of Comrade Stalin was collectivization, famine, repression and the conversion of Soviet workers and peasants into slaves. That is, if briefly so to speak.
                4. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 26 February 2020 16: 01 New
                  +3
                  You will study the Preobrazhensky-Feldman model, everything was very intelligibly written about what was due to which industrialization in the USSR was to be financed.

                  And if you do not exaggerate about slaves and other rubbish - can you suggest your model, which is better than the model you mentioned? Based on the realities of the 20-30s?
                5. passerby
                  passerby 26 February 2020 17: 51 New
                  -2
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  You will study the Preobrazhensky-Feldman model, everything was very intelligibly written about what was due to which industrialization in the USSR was to be financed.

                  And if you do not exaggerate about slaves and other rubbish - can you suggest your model, which is better than the model you mentioned? Based on the realities of the 20-30s?
                  I do not exaggerate, just call a spade a spade. As for your question, in my opinion it was necessary to continue the policy of the NEP. Today, there are studies in which economic models were built proving that if in the USSR, instead of Stalin's industrialization, the same measures were implemented in the economy that were then implemented in Japan, the USSR would be able to achieve 30 percent better results than it did the Stalinist USSR without paying the bloody price that the people of the USSR paid for the realization of Stalin's ambitions.
                6. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 26 February 2020 18: 19 New
                  -1
                  it was necessary to continue the policy of the NEP

                  and what would it give? Can I be more specific?
                  Today, there are studies in which economic models have been built that prove

                  Where can I get to know them? Because the words that
                  the same measures were implemented in the economy that were then implemented in Japan

                  puzzling to say the least. What was so wonderful in Japan in the 20s and 30s (even forgetting about the cream received from the WWI, which the USSR could not boast about)? Crises? Rice riots? Unemployment? Repression? Special High Police? Militarism? You kind of wanted to leave the USSR.
                7. passerby
                  passerby 27 February 2020 04: 54 New
                  -1
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  it was necessary to continue the policy of the NEP

                  and what would it give? Can I be more specific?
                  Today, there are studies in which economic models have been built that prove

                  Where can I get to know them? Because the words that
                  the same measures were implemented in the economy that were then implemented in Japan

                  puzzling to say the least. What was so wonderful in Japan in the 20s and 30s (even forgetting about the cream received from the WWI, which the USSR could not boast about)? Crises? Rice riots? Unemployment? Repression? Special High Police? Militarism? You kind of wanted to leave the USSR.


                  You are apparently quite far from economics as a science, therefore write about Japan what you write. Check out, the truth here is only in English, no one has translated as far as I know. Was Stalin Necessary for Rassia's Economic Development? nber.org/papers/w19425
                8. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 11: 17 New
                  -1
                  You are apparently quite far from economics as a science, therefore write about Japan what you write

                  I asked you for your specific thoughts on the specific questions asked (what exactly would the continuation of the NEP give, what exactly was this in Japan). You begin to talk about the qualities of the opponent.

                  Вместо этого вы мне привели "исследование":
                  1) which is based on a comparison of GDP. And after this fact, it is not necessary to consider further in order to understand the applicability of this work. Since the concept of GDP in the economy appeared much later and there can be no data of contemporaries with such a parameter, we use the estimate of national income in discussions of GDP (!!!) and the wonderful phrase that the data were received from Harrison in person.
                  2) где несколько десятков раз встречается фраза "мы предположили, мы допустили" (в разных вариациях).
                  3) где упомянута неоклассическая модель. В связи с чем подсчет ВВП должен вестись по учету добавленной стоимости. Получить такие цифры для описываемых периодов просто невозможно. И их и нет в исследовании. Одни "мы предположили".
                  4) where is the phrase that the opportunity for peasants to sell surplus products on the free market appeared after 1932 (!!!).
                  5) which in 2013 (!!!) believes that the country's development (especially in the long term) can be estimated using GDP.
                  7) which does not take into account dozens of factors at all, selecting 11 and playing with them, building ranks. Pure alternative.
                  There are tons of such waste paper. It does not have real value, acting as the practice of the acquired knowledge on compiling stats. rows. It appears because science is now built on the Hirsch index. And this is a quantitative, not a qualitative indicator.
                  So let's move away from the waste paper and get back to my questions and your answers to them, okay?
                9. passerby
                  passerby 27 February 2020 12: 01 New
                  -1
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  You are apparently quite far from economics as a science, therefore write about Japan what you write

                  I asked you for your specific thoughts on the specific questions asked (what exactly would the continuation of the NEP give, what exactly was this in Japan). You begin to talk about the qualities of the opponent.

                  Вместо этого вы мне привели "исследование":
                  1) which is based on a comparison of GDP. And after this fact, it is not necessary to consider further in order to understand the applicability of this work. Since the concept of GDP in the economy appeared much later and there can be no data of contemporaries with such a parameter, we use the estimate of national income in discussions of GDP (!!!) and the wonderful phrase that the data were received from Harrison in person.
                  2) где несколько десятков раз встречается фраза "мы предположили, мы допустили" (в разных вариациях).
                  3) где упомянута неоклассическая модель. В связи с чем подсчет ВВП должен вестись по учету добавленной стоимости. Получить такие цифры для описываемых периодов просто невозможно. И их и нет в исследовании. Одни "мы предположили".
                  4) where is the phrase that the opportunity for peasants to sell surplus products on the free market appeared after 1932 (!!!).
                  5) which in 2013 (!!!) believes that the country's development (especially in the long term) can be estimated using GDP.
                  7) which does not take into account dozens of factors at all, selecting 11 and playing with them, building ranks. Pure alternative.
                  There are tons of such waste paper. It does not have real value, acting as the practice of the acquired knowledge on compiling stats. rows. It appears because science is now built on the Hirsch index. And this is a quantitative, not a qualitative indicator.
                  So let's move away from the waste paper and get back to my questions and your answers to them, okay?

                  Criticism I think so "can be accepted only if you have a doctorate in economics, because the work that you called" waste paper "was written by people with academic degrees in economics, including doctoral and this work, before it was published in scientific journals peer-reviewed by people who also had academic degrees. You apparently do not have any degree in economics, so please be kind enough to confirm each your thesis with a reference to the opinion of an authoritative author. If you think any assumptions from the above work are incorrect, explain which ones and for what reason. Therefore, I ask ... Start with the first paragraph and do not forget about links to authoritative authors.
                10. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 14: 31 New
                  -1
                  people with academic degrees in economics wrote, including doctoral ones, and this work, before it was published in scientific journals, was reviewed by people who also had academic degrees

                  Both those, and others, thereby increased their Hirsch index. Everyone is happy, everyone is happy. Indeed, in the USA and Great Britain, where these authors come from, the Hirsch index can serve as a determining factor in whether you will get a more prestigious job or not.
                  The pursuit of high scientometric indicators as the main motivational component of the work leads to the development of imitation science. Doctor of Technical Sciences of the Russian Academy of Sciences V. Imaev

                  These are the realities of modern scientific publications. Ask Shpakovsky how he cowards for his citation index.
                  therefore, please be kind enough to confirm each your thesis with a reference to the opinion of an authoritative author. If you think any assumptions from the above work are incorrect, explain which ones and for what reason. Therefore, I ask ... Start with the first paragraph and do not forget about links to authoritative authors.

                  This is ridiculous.
                  1) Любое допущение/предположение делает любой расчет "альтернативным" по отношению к истине.
                  2) Как вы себе представляете подтверждения от авторитетных авторов о том, например, что в тексте десятки раз встречаются фразы "мы предположили, мы допустили"? Вы сами по тексту не видите этих слов? Хотите сказать, что их там нет? А если есть, какое подтверждение какой автор на это должен давать? Не видите, что эти допущения вводятся в расчеты и результат расчетов из категории "допущение", становится категорией "истина"? Или какой автор должен вам подтвердить, что до сороковых понятие ВВП вообще не существовало, а до шестидесятых не использовалось? Зачем подтверждения на общеизвестные факты? Это как требовать, чтобы у Гельмгольца была работа о том, что вечный двигатель второго рода Гордея Лесовика (к примеру) невозможен, а если такой ссылки на Гельмгольца не предоставить (а ее по понятным причинам быть не может), то значит двигатель возможен.
                  3) Объяснять должны были авторы в своей работе, почему они считают свои предположения возможными. Например, страница 42 и предположение, что после 1919 в России изменения в царской экономике будут такие, как в экономике Японии. Защитник, расскажите какие предпосылки для такого предположения в исторической ретроспективе? У авторов их нет. Они просто предполагают. Кстати, рисунок на той же странице тоже примечателен. Тем что Советская Россия существует в 1911 году. Тем, что тренд для РИ на основании периода 1885-1913 года, а не 1885-1917 (и чтобы вы не начали запрашивать и на это мнения авторитетных авторов, они сами об этом на стр. 33 говорят). Или, например, страница 19. Норма амортизации устанавливается такая-то (0,05), коэффициент дисконтирования такой-то (0,96), доли потребления разных классов товаров 0,15 и 0,85. Авторы где-то объясняют почему они взяли такие цифры, где они их вывели? Нигде. Так и пишут, что выбирают значения "довольно спорно". Почему вы от них не просите пояснений, вас все устраивает? На следующей странице они самостоятельно устанавливают норму прожиточного минимума, так как в их модели используется такой параметр, а в 1913 году его просто не было в РИ. На той же странице выше они допускают вообще монументальные допущения:
                  1) An intermediate product for industrial production, labor only.
                  2) An intermediate product for the production of agricultural products, only land.
                  Do you understand how this distorts the result? Until 1913, we drag a plow, in the best case, a horse pulls a plow, only manure from fertilizers, but there is none, since there is no cattle, since there is no pasture, as there is no place for pasture, as there is an extensive development path. In the 30s (and in the 20s) tractors were added to them, in the 30s mineral fertilizers appeared, there was no manure, no livestock. And the above assumptions of the authors lead to the fact that cost of funds used (plows, plows, horses, tractors, fertilizers, seeders, fan drills, etc.) removed from added value. Although in the second case it is higher, since in order to produce a tractor or fertilizers, it is necessary to spend more than raising a horse or making a plow.

                  Поэтому не надо "упорствовать" в рассмотрении того, что является имитацией науки. Либо поясните мне за авторов вот те вопросы, которые я поднял в пункте 3. Или просто возвращаемся к моими вопросам к вам о том, что конкретно дало бы продолжение НЭПа, что конкретно было такого в Японии.
                11. passerby
                  passerby 27 February 2020 16: 42 New
                  -1
                  Model building is one of the scientific methods of cognition, and model building just involves the introduction of certain assumptions. I find it somewhat strange when a person criticizing the scientific work of respected scientists with serious scientific degrees does not know about the elementary methods of scientific knowledge. Let's start with the GDP, give the opinion of at least one serious economist, which indicates that, based on the statistics of the past, we can’t calculate the USSR’s GDP for the period from, say, 1917 to 1940?
            2. passerby
              passerby 27 February 2020 16: 38 New
              -1
              Model building is one of the scientific methods of cognition, and model building just involves the introduction of certain assumptions. I find it somewhat strange when a person criticizing the scientific work of respected scientists with serious scientific degrees does not know about the elementary methods of scientific knowledge. Let's start with the GDP, give the opinion of at least one serious economist, which indicates that, based on the statistics of the past, we can’t calculate the USSR’s GDP for the period from, say, 1917 to 1940?
            3. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 18: 10 New
              -1
              Model building is one of the scientific methods of cognition, and model building just involves the introduction of certain assumptions.

              So what? This method can not be applied everywhere. For example, in thermodynamics PV = RT is also a model. The ideal gas behavior model. It is not suitable for real gases, but its use is simplified. Because deviations of particular cases can be monitored by a full-scale experiment and correlated for these particular cases by obtaining an empirical dependence. В ряде дисциплин проведение натурных экспериментов для подтверждения модели невозможно. Поэтому такие модели абстрактны. В предлагаемой вами работе натурный эксперимент поставлен, он подтвердил применимость модели? ))) Потому она абстрактна, так как не проверяема. Вот потому так много таких "исследований", как упомянутое вами, у социологов, экономистов, демографов и им подобных, и так мало у физиков, химиков, биологов и им подобных.
              В мат.статистике есть официальное "кредо статистика"
              1) procedures - all procedures are different
              2) factors - all factors interact
              3) correlations - all variables correlate
              4) populations - there are no two populations identical in any respect
              5) normality - data is not distributed normally
              6) options - options are never equal
              7) models - all models are wrong
              8) equality - there are no two identical numbers
              9) size - many numbers are very small
              And here is what statistics themselves say about modeling:
              ... none of the models are [true] - not even Newton’s laws. When you create a model, you miss all the details that you, having knowledge at your disposal, consider insignificant ... Models should not be true, but it is important that they are applicable, and, of course, it is necessary to study whether they are applicable to any specific purpose. It also means that the model will never be finally accepted, only for testing. Georg Rush

              ... it is theoretically impossible to achieve a single model that would fully and unambiguously characterize the infinitely expandable concept of the state of statistical control. Which is perhaps even more important, based on the finite part of the sequence [X 1, X 2, X 3, ...] - we cannot reasonably hope to build a model that will accurately represent any specific characteristic of a particular state, even if such a state does exist . Walter Schuhart

              The idea that complex physical, biological, or sociological systems can be accurately described by several formulas is clearly absurd. David Cox

              Modeling in science remains, at least in part, an art. However, there are some principles that can guide modeling. Firstly, all models are erroneous; some, however, are better than others, and we can search for the best. At the same time, we must recognize that eternal truth is not in our hands. John Nelder

              All models are erroneous. George Edward Pelham Boxing


              a person criticizing the scientific work of respected scientists with serious scientific degrees does not know about the elementary methods of scientific knowledge.


              Are you talking about this guy? He is our first in the authors. So he is PhD, like the rest. An ordinary candidate of science has turned into a respected scientist with serious degrees. Not too much?

              Let's start with the GDP, give the opinion of at least one serious economist, which indicates that, based on the statistics of the past, we can’t calculate the USSR’s GDP for the period from, say, 1917 to 1940?

              You obviously did not understand the content of paragraph 2 with Helmholtz in the example in my previous comment, since you continue to put forward similar requirements. And, still waiting for answers to paragraph 3.
            4. passerby
              passerby 28 February 2020 05: 44 New
              -1
              All studies in the humanities are based on model research, as no one except perhaps Comrade Lenin and Comrade Stalin had the idea of ​​experimenting with entire societies, with rare old exceptions. At the same time, no one casts doubt on the reliability and scientific nature of construction models for economic research and, for example, sociology. But you can, as I wrote to you above, give the opinion of an authoritative scientist who proves that economic modeling is unscientific. I draw your attention to the fact that you have not yet brought a single opinion of an authoritative scientist confirming the correctness of your conclusions, I brought you a link to a scientific work written by a team of scientists including doctors of science. Therefore, please be so kind as to provide links to the opinions of scientists confirming your point of view. As for paragraph 3, let's not jump and let's go in order. I asked you for references to the work of scientists confirming the correctness of your position regarding GDP, you did not bring them. I understand correctly that in paragraph 2 was expressed purely yours, an unconfirmed opinion?
            5. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 28 February 2020 12: 36 New
              -1
              At the same time, no one casts doubt on the reliability and scientific nature of construction models for economic research and, for example, sociology. But you can, as I wrote to you above, give the opinion of an authoritative scientist who proves that economic modeling is unscientific.

              And you even show my words, where I say that modeling is unscientific? I say that its results cannot be considered true without confirmation from field experiments.
              The words of scientists lead, with the same opinion? And in the previous message, what did you do? Ahhh, I understand that for you it’s just Rush, Shekhart, Cox, Nelder, and, especially, Boxing - are not authoritative))
              The position held by most economists writing about the nature of economic models. According to this position, the models do not describe any reality at all, but represent some artificial (as is often said to be plausible) worlds or fables, that is, some completely fictitious, unrealistic, maybe obviously unrealistic, specially made unrealistic description that we need to do this. to demonstrate some kind of special effect under such, perhaps, caricatured, unrealistic conditions. Why do we need such a theoretical model if we do not refer to real life, but simply explore such an artificial, simplified example?
              One of the answers to this question may be the study of models as special cases, that is, as one of the varieties of argumentation. If a certain effect is found in different models under different conditions, for example. Or if we observe this effect not only in the theoretical model, but also during an economic experiment. Ivan Boldyrev

              it’s never occurred to anyone to experiment with entire societies,

              Neither Roosevelt nor Thatcher from the first who came to mind. Any strong personality in a difficult period is forced to experiment.
              I understand correctly,

              no, you misunderstand. You simply apply a well-known manipulative technique, asking the interlocutor for something that cannot be because it is insignificant or axiomatic in the light of scientific opinion Это как требовать ссылку на Эйнштейна с доказательством, что земля не стоит на четырех слонах. Стоит, нет? Ну выходит, что стоит, раз нет ссылки на Эйнштейна. Вам указаны конкретные страницы с конкретными моментами (которых там намного больше на самом деле), которые искажают результат "исследования".
              GDP cannot be calculated correctly так как это будет МОДЕЛЬ расчета, так как надо заменять данные, необходимые для расчета ВВП по добавочной стоимости на те, что можно найти. У меня складывается впечатление, что вы даже вчера с работой не ознакомились (и у меня есть догадки как вы о ней узнали). "Модель" этих ребят построена на производственной функции Кобба-Дугласа (указано на стр. 10). И ВВП они аппроксимируют через общую факторную производительность TFP.
              Well, now for a snack, so as not to look far, look at what is written about TFP and the specified function on Wikipedia. But since you are very likely to say that Wikipedia is not happy (without explaining why), and you need other criticism, then keep: https://ideas.repec.org/p/zbw/esprep/203136.html
              not only did they use a model that has no relation to GDP, they also opted for a disputed model (they use it for specific enterprises to obtain coefficients that cannot be obtained in the general form of the model), and the model itself was distorted by excluding the parameter K from the model (I wrote where in previous posts), which is responsible for the contribution of capital, which is taken into account in GDP.
              There are tons of such waste paper. It does not have real value, acting as the practice of the acquired knowledge on compiling stats. rows. It appears because science is now built on the Hirsch index. And this is a quantitative, not a qualitative indicator.
              The pursuit of high scientometric indicators as the main motivational component of the work leads to the development of imitation science.
              A curtain.
              You can send answers on the NEP and Japan, with which the conversation began, but was diverted to a different direction in order to avoid these answers.
            6. passerby
              passerby 29 February 2020 16: 14 New
              -1
              Dear, you have written a lot, let's sort through what you wrote without jumping from the fifth to the tenth.
              Let's first deal with modeling in economics. Here is a quote from what you wrote.
              Вместо этого вы мне привели "исследование":
              1) which is based on a comparison of GDP. And after this fact, it is not necessary to consider further in order to understand the applicability of this work. Since the concept of GDP in the economy appeared much later and there can be no data of contemporaries with such a parameter, we use the estimate of national income in discussions of GDP (!!!) and the wonderful phrase that the data were received from Harrison in person.
              2) где несколько десятков раз встречается фраза "мы предположили, мы допустили" (в разных вариациях).

              If I understood you correctly, then you later agreed that the construction of models involves certain assumptions, while modeling is a scientific method of cognition, therefore, the construction of models is strictly scientific. At the same time, science is engaged in the search for truth; therefore, a correctly constructed scientific model will be truth. Now you have voiced the thesis that an economic model that has not been tested by a full-scale experiment is not true. Once again, I ask you to provide links to scientists who share your point of view that economic models that have not been tested by field experiments are not true, and I ask you to give examples of such experiments in the field of economics.
            7. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 2 March 2020 09: 22 New
              -1
              Again I ask you to provide links to scientists who share your point of view

              Opinion 6 scientists above do not suit you? Yes, you can add MGIMO professor Kumekhov there to the heap.
              then you later agreed that the construction of models involves certain assumptions, while modeling is a scientific method of cognition,

              не может быть никакого "позже согласились" потому что не было "раньше не соглашался".
              At the same time, science is engaged in the search for truth; therefore, a correctly constructed scientific model will be truth.

              Warm, round, we interfere everything. Yeah.
              A correctly constructed model is always closer to the truth than an incorrect one. Neither more nor less.
              Из книги "Имитационное моделирование" Березовской:
              Another problem that may arise during simulation is the desire of users to perceive the results of modeling as the ultimate truth.

              So let's evaluate how correct the model you provided is from the link. I wrote you a number of positions that will distort the result. Explain to me why such a distortion is not so significant that the results can be considered correct?
              I ask you to give examples of such experiments in the field of economics.

              What for? Does this somehow shed light on the specific research you cited? Obviously not. Then why? To take the conversation further from the bottom line?
            8. passerby
              passerby 2 March 2020 10: 24 New
              -1
              Opinion 6 scientists above do not suit you? Yes, you can add MGIMO professor Kumekhov there to the heap.

              Please provide links to the work of these scientists in which they argue that the economic model not tested by a full-scale experiment is not true?

              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              What for? Does this somehow shed light on the specific research you cited? Obviously not. Then why? To take the conversation further from the bottom line?


              Of course it’ll shed, because it will allow you to evaluate the correctness of your thesis that an economic model that has not been tested by a full-scale experiment cannot be true. Agree, because the argument that all economists verify the validity of their models by conducting full-scale experiments, and only the authors of the study that I refer to decided to neglect such an experiment, will sound weighty on your part. And on the contrary, if the vast majority of economists do not test their models by conducting full-scale experiments, then I think you will agree that making claims against the authors of the study to which I refer is unreasonable.
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              не может быть никакого "позже согласились" потому что не было "раньше не соглашался".

              If there were no “earlier”, then for what purpose did you point out the assumptions and assumptions as shortcomings of the model I have cited, as such, without even revealing the essence of the assumptions and assumptions?
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Warm, round, we interfere everything. Yeah.
              A correctly constructed model is always closer to the truth than an incorrect one. Neither more nor less.
              Do I understand correctly that a model can still be true? But what about your thesis that an economic model that has not been tested by a full-scale experiment cannot be true?

              Let’s deal with your claims in order. First, with modeling, then with GDP, and then we'll get to the rest
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2020 16: 40 New
    0
    Demagogy .... do you have an answer to simple questions that correspond to generally established, recognized definitions?
  • passerby
    passerby 26 February 2020 17: 44 New
    -2
    You have demagogy. I gave an answer to your questions, if you do not like these answers, then I can not help you.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 26 February 2020 17: 49 New
    0
    You have attached a specific derogatory name that has a clear definition ....
    You did not give a clear, relevant answer .....
    They intended to prove ...... NOT PROVEN, do not answer for your words.
    Not interested.
  • passerby
    passerby 27 February 2020 05: 02 New
    0
    Did you even understand that you wanted to write?
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 26 February 2020 22: 31 New
    0
    Quote: bystander
    Stalin turned the citizens of the USSR into serfs.

    serfs and slaves are two incompatible things. Peasants have property, no slaves. In your presentation, these are simply words symbolizing suffering.
    USSR documentation is also a symbol of your readiness to fight for humiliated serf slaves. But these slaves flew into space and won the war and nuclear weapons .... and began to consider themselves offended only when the partocratic bourgeoisie appeared in the USSR.
    1. passerby
      passerby 27 February 2020 05: 11 New
      0
      I set out to you facts that speak of the legal status of workers in the USSR, and you are essentially trying to justify these unsightly facts by the fact that the USSR flew into space, etc. From my point of view, flying into space does not justify the transformation of the country's population for these flights into slaves and the suppression of the discontent of this population through repression. And even more so, this does not testify to Stalin's genius, it only testifies to his fanaticism and cruelty, when a person is ready to commit any atrocities for the sake of realizing his ambitions and holding power in his hands.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 27 February 2020 08: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      when a person is ready to go to any atrocities in order to realize his ambitions

      OK! let's say it would be yours, then you can’t avoid starvation in Moscow, and a new civil war, with the collapse - right?
    3. passerby
      passerby 27 February 2020 09: 30 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Quote: bystander
      when a person is ready to go to any atrocities in order to realize his ambitions

      OK! let's say it would be yours, then you can’t avoid starvation in Moscow, and a new civil war, with the collapse - right?

      I do not understand why not to avoid the famine in Moscow and the new Civil War?
    4. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 27 February 2020 11: 33 New
      -1
      в годы неурожая, недостатка тягловой силы, а также "золотой" блокады голод был неминуем
    5. passerby
      passerby 27 February 2020 12: 05 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      в годы неурожая, недостатка тягловой силы, а также "золотой" блокады голод был неминуем
      Before the implementation of the policy of a major turning point, there was no talk of any famine in the USSR. All you had to do was continue the NEP policy
    6. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 27 February 2020 13: 21 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      All you had to do was continue the NEP policy

      will you build factories for Nepmans? chemical industry too? Learn the history of Lenagold.
      further tell me how you will distribute a limited number of Fordson Putilovets tractors so that everyone has the opportunity to plow? keep in mind that the horse was an alternative to the tractor. Take an interest in the number of horses and the efficiency of agriculture. Understand what the Golden Blockade is, and finally compare - in tsarist Russia more than 70% of the population were peasants (what could be industrial growth?), And in 40 years less than 40.% the rest went to the working class! Have you ever led a team?
      In Russia, before the great turning point, it was a question of subsistence farming. The peasants walked barefoot. Boots for the holidays.
      after 1935 I never met barefoot peasants in a photo.
      yes ... before the revolution, most factories in Russia were on foreign investment. Politics got addicted to them! therefore, the First World War happened.
    7. passerby
      passerby 27 February 2020 17: 19 New
      -1
      In Russia, before the start of the policy of turning the economy, it entered the pre-revolutionary level and people didn’t die of starvation, but from the beginning of the policy of the big turning point, when Comrade Stalin decided to rob the peasants and due to the loot carried out industrialization, people began to die of hunger, and at that time famine raged in the country, comrade Stalin continued to drive grain and food for export. So Comrade Stalin took care of the peasants and their children dying of hunger. And by 1940, realizing that the effectiveness of capital investment in the economy leaves much to be desired, because the workers wanted a fair remuneration for their work, a Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Armed Forces dated 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX appeared, which forbade workers to leave without the permission of the chief, thereby turning them into serfs.
    8. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 27 February 2020 19: 02 New
      -1
      Are you kidding me? did you deal with the Golden Blockade?
      Quote: bystander
      moreover, at a time when famine was raging in the country, Comrade Stalin continued to drive grain and food for export.
      , because gold was not accepted for payment from the USSR in any industrially developed country in the world! And we needed machines! Stalin was on the path to becoming his own production of everything! and now, everything that we consume is not produced by us!
      Quote: bystander
      who forbade workers to quit without the permission of the boss

      when you leave the application you write? so then, only right now by law 2 weeks and then in my opinion 2 or 3 months. And this is not due to the cruelty of power, but to lovers of freebies who loved to change jobs. Then, upon dismissal, a family allowance was paid, read the laws.
      ЗЫ: может вы любитель Солженицына? тогда прочтите его "200 лет вместе", это вещь где Солженицын опровергает все что было написано им ранее.
    9. passerby
      passerby 28 February 2020 05: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Are you kidding me? did you deal with the Golden Blockade?
      Quote: bystander
      moreover, at a time when famine was raging in the country, Comrade Stalin continued to drive grain and food for export.
      , because gold was not accepted for payment from the USSR in any industrially developed country in the world! And we needed machines! Stalin was on the path to becoming his own production of everything! and now, everything that we consume is not produced by us!
      Quote: bystander
      who forbade workers to quit without the permission of the boss

      when you leave the application you write? so then, only right now by law 2 weeks and then in my opinion 2 or 3 months. And this is not due to the cruelty of power, but to lovers of freebies who loved to change jobs. Then, upon dismissal, a family allowance was paid, read the laws.
      ЗЫ: может вы любитель Солженицына? тогда прочтите его "200 лет вместе", это вещь где Солженицын опровергает все что было написано им ранее.


      Those. Comrade Stalin, for the sake of machine tools, doomed the children of the peasants to death from starvation, which he himself organized, taking the bread from the peasants? You think this is normal. And I do not need to talk about the "golden blockade". And about “2-3 months”, can I refer to a regulatory document? Although do not worry, there is no such document. There is a Decree of the USSR Armed Forces dated 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX, which turned workers in the USSR into serfs who could not quit on their own.
    10. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 28 February 2020 10: 23 New
      -1
      + I even put pluses for your perseverance laughing
      Пункт 3 - Постановления СНК СССР, ЦК ВКП(б) и ВЦСПС о мероприятиях по упорядочению трудовой дисциплины, улучшению практики государственного социального страхования и борьбе с злоупотреблениями в этом деле. 23.12.1938 г. гласит: - "3. Рабочие и служащие при увольнении по собственному желанию обязаны предупреждать об этом администрацию предприятий и учреждений за один месяц."
      In 1940, an addition appeared that engineering and technical personnel were required to warn two months in advance.
      Quote: bystander
      There is a Decree of the USSR Armed Forces dated 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX, which turned workers in the USSR into serfs who could not quit on their own.

      your decree about the fact that you can’t leave your workplace UNAFFECTEDLY!
      I think the question is settled ????
    11. passerby
      passerby 28 February 2020 11: 24 New
      -1
      This is not so, I gave you a link to the document. Here is a quote from it.
      3. To prohibit the unauthorized departure of workers and employees from state, cooperative and public enterprises and institutions, as well as the unauthorized transfer from one enterprise to another or from one institution to another.

      Only the director of the enterprise or the head of the institution can authorize the departure from the enterprise and the institution or the transition from one enterprise to another and from one institution to another.
      As you can see, it is directly indicated here that the transition to another job is possible only with the permission of the director of your company.
      Quote: aybolyt678
      + I even put pluses for your perseverance laughing
      Пункт 3 - Постановления СНК СССР, ЦК ВКП(б) и ВЦСПС о мероприятиях по упорядочению трудовой дисциплины, улучшению практики государственного социального страхования и борьбе с злоупотреблениями в этом деле. 23.12.1938 г. гласит: - "3. Рабочие и служащие при увольнении по собственному желанию обязаны предупреждать об этом администрацию предприятий и учреждений за один месяц."
      In 1940, an addition appeared that engineering and technical personnel were required to warn two months in advance.
      Quote: bystander
      There is a Decree of the USSR Armed Forces dated 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX, which turned workers in the USSR into serfs who could not quit on their own.

      your decree about the fact that you can’t leave your workplace UNAFFECTEDLY!
      I think the question is settled ????
    12. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 28 February 2020 13: 24 New
      -1
      I repeat, have you carefully read the name of your document? there about unauthorized care.
      no one canceled voluntary dismissal.
      now minus
    13. passerby
      passerby 29 February 2020 15: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      I repeat, have you carefully read the name of your document? there about unauthorized care.
      no one canceled voluntary dismissal.
      now minus
      And how much is the name of the document here? I quoted the contents of this document to you and it is written in black and white about the prohibition of dismissal without the permission of the director. Or do you just don’t like its content because it is too ugly? But here I can’t help you with anything, this content was not composed by me.
    14. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 29 February 2020 16: 05 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      there it is written in black and white about the prohibition of dismissal without the permission of the director.

      In our time, too, you can’t leave without permission smile I have 32 employees working, on each sub-report (all sorts of values, advances, vacation pay), I need to pay salaries ... By law they are required to work for me for 2 weeks and write a statement, otherwise I will expel them without calculation for absenteeism, and I will have to go to court to compensate for the damage.
      you read the decision of the Council of People's Commissars of 23.12. 1938, the Labor Code was not yet there. paragraph 3, there the order of dismissal of their own free will is registered laughing
      laughing In general, discussing a problem with you is like playing football every time from the middle of the field and from scratch. What class are you in? young man?
    15. passerby
      passerby 2 March 2020 06: 04 New
      -1
      The problems are actually not what I have and I don’t see what can be discussed here. There are specific facts, if now the employee can write a letter of resignation and after 2 weeks not go to work, then in the Stalin USSR he could write at least 1000 applications, but if his boss did not let go, he was obliged to go to work, and if he didn’t , then for repeated truancy he was sent to prison. I consider this a revival of serfdom in the USSR, these are facts. That's all. And if you noticed, then the document to which I refer was adopted later than yours, accordingly, from June 1940 it was he who acted.
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Quote: bystander
      there it is written in black and white about the prohibition of dismissal without the permission of the director.

      In our time, too, you can’t leave without permission smile I have 32 employees working, on each sub-report (all sorts of values, advances, vacation pay), I need to pay salaries ... By law they are required to work for me for 2 weeks and write a statement, otherwise I will expel them without calculation for absenteeism, and I will have to go to court to compensate for the damage.
      you read the decision of the Council of People's Commissars of 23.12. 1938, the Labor Code was not yet there. paragraph 3, there the order of dismissal of their own free will is registered laughing
      laughing In general, discussing a problem with you is like playing football every time from the middle of the field and from scratch. What class are you in? young man?
    16. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 2 March 2020 07: 02 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      then in the Stalinist USSR he could write at least 1000 statements, but if his boss didn’t let him go, he was obliged to go to work, and if he didn’t, then he was sent to prison for repeated absenteeism.

      And what does Stalin have to do with it? bosses are to blame!
    17. passerby
      passerby 2 March 2020 09: 56 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Quote: bystander
      then in the Stalinist USSR he could write at least 1000 statements, but if his boss didn’t let him go, he was obliged to go to work, and if he didn’t, then he was sent to prison for repeated absenteeism.

      And what does Stalin have to do with it? bosses are to blame!

      Who gave such rights to superiors and who provided for criminal liability for the violation? Stalin, then he is to blame. If Putin gives such rights to company directors now, then he will be to blame for this.
    18. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 2 March 2020 13: 03 New
      -1
      Игорь! В СССР, в точном соответствии с завещанием апостола Павла был провозглашен принцип; " кто не работает тот не ест", было даже уголовное наказание за тунеядство. Человек был обязан работать, во имя общества, будущего своих детей, поэтому какая разница где работать? С другой стороны Советский КЗоТ всегда декларировал право увольнения по собственному желанию. Но повторюсь, уход с завода это вам не уход из супермаркета! вы - рабочий! вы часть процесса производства, нет детальки и остановилась сборка Двигателя, конвейер стоит! А где начальник возьмет рабочего? Вас, жителя 21 века за него поставить? да вы пальцы через 5 минут на маховик намотаете, а может и всего себя!!!
    19. passerby
      passerby 2 March 2020 13: 18 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Игорь! В СССР, в точном соответствии с завещанием апостола Павла был провозглашен принцип; " кто не работает тот не ест", было даже уголовное наказание за тунеядство. Человек был обязан работать, во имя общества, будущего своих детей, поэтому какая разница где работать? С другой стороны Советский КЗоТ всегда декларировал право увольнения по собственному желанию. Но повторюсь, уход с завода это вам не уход из супермаркета! вы - рабочий! вы часть процесса производства, нет детальки и остановилась сборка Двигателя, конвейер стоит! А где начальник возьмет рабочего? Вас, жителя 21 века за него поставить? да вы пальцы через 5 минут на маховик намотаете, а может и всего себя!!!


      I correctly understand that you still believed your eyes and agree that the workers in the USSR were turned into serfs, who cannot, at their own request, without the permission of the boss, go to another job and are now trying to justify this, saying that What is a normal situation?
    20. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 2 March 2020 20: 08 New
      -1
      winked state employer! a person’s working time belongs to the owner, right? that is, the state! The right is the will of the ruling class elevated to the Law! and the ruling class was the working class! and the oppressed were parasites. It was for the Parasites that serfdom was introduced - they were attached to the workplace! you are satisfied? I YES !!! laughing laughing laughing
      Have you looked at pages 32 and 33 in your ABC Book? Dismissal on its own hi smile
      and workers also had free medicine and apartments were given free of charge - is this also an element of serfdom?
      the next element is light work. According to medical indications, it was possible to transfer to another place of work without problems! But what about the serfs?
      Do not invent nonsense, it does not color you sad you are a victim of liberals. Liberum in Latin is freedom. You cannot be free from society. And the society of that time is a society of joint labor.
    21. passerby
      passerby 3 March 2020 08: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      winked state employer! a person’s working time belongs to the owner, right? that is, the state! The right is the will of the ruling class elevated to the Law! and the ruling class was the working class! and the oppressed were parasites. It was for the Parasites that serfdom was introduced - they were attached to the workplace! you are satisfied? I YES !!! laughing laughing laughing
      Have you looked at pages 32 and 33 in your ABC Book? Dismissal on its own hi smile
      and workers also had free medicine and apartments were given free of charge - is this also an element of serfdom?
      the next element is light work. According to medical indications, it was possible to transfer to another place of work without problems! But what about the serfs?
      Do not invent nonsense, it does not color you sad you are a victim of liberals. Liberum in Latin is freedom. You cannot be free from society. And the society of that time is a society of joint labor.

      In “my primer”, 5 paragraphs below, it is precisely written that from 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX the termination of the employment contract was unilaterally prohibited, which actually meant the attachment of the worker to the enterprise, i.e. to serfdom. All that you wrote above in support of Soviet serfdom, about the fight against parasitism, and so on and so forth, can equally be written in defense of serfdom in the Russian Empire or slavery in the rest of the world. I associate your unwillingness to admit the facts that I pointed out to you only with obstinacy, which is not supported by anything but obstinacy itself. It seems painful for you to part with the illusions that you lived with respect to the Stalinist USSR. And there is no need to talk about liberal propaganda, serfdom and slavery were condemned by all and the communists and liberals and democrats and not democrats and not liberals, only the communists condemning serfdom hypocritically did not want to notice the fact that their icon - Comrade Stalin himself turned Soviet citizens into serfs . As for housing and honey. help, the owner also provides housing and medical assistance to his serfs so that they can work for the owner. Stalin, by the way, was called by his closest associates from the Politburo just the “master”.
    22. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 3 March 2020 08: 54 New
      -1
      termination of the employment contract was unilaterally prohibited, which actually meant the inability to dismiss the worker on the initiative of the employer! eg! smile
      what else will the demagogue come up with?
    23. passerby
      passerby 4 March 2020 04: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      termination of the employment contract was unilaterally prohibited, which actually meant the inability to dismiss the worker on the initiative of the employer! eg! smile
      what else will the demagogue come up with?

      I gave you a quote from the document, then I quoted from the textbook along with links to the document and the textbook, and you got to the point that you are pretending to be a broom and say that “you don’t see anything”. Here, of course, with all my desire, I can’t help you with anything. But I am glad that a lot of people have read our dialogue, who can draw the appropriate conclusions from it. And you yourself, in spite of the fact that you have taken the position “I see nothing, I can’t hear anything”, nevertheless understood who Comrade Stalin turned the working people of the USSR into, and this in itself is good, because it somehow destroys the myth of “ happy life of people in the Stalin USSR ”.
    24. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 4 March 2020 07: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      But I am glad that a lot of people have read our dialogue, who can draw the appropriate conclusions from it.

      it pleases me too smile,
      Quote: bystander
      nevertheless understood who Comrade Stalin turned the working people of the USSR into
      - No! parasites attached to work laughing
      You still fight for the rights of gladiators in the Colosseum arena!

    25. passerby
      passerby 4 March 2020 08: 46 New
      -1
      A person who wants to work in another job, in your opinion, a parasite?
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Quote: bystander
      But I am glad that a lot of people have read our dialogue, who can draw the appropriate conclusions from it.

      it pleases me too smile,
      Quote: bystander
      nevertheless understood who Comrade Stalin turned the working people of the USSR into
      - No! parasites attached to work laughing
      You still fight for the rights of gladiators in the Colosseum arena!
    26. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 4 March 2020 09: 33 New
      -1
      Quote: bystander
      A person who wants to work in another job, in your opinion, a parasite?

      Labor Code of the RSFSR 1922 - Article 90, stipulates the condition for dismissal at will
      http://docs.cntd.ru/document/901857831 найдите опровержение, только не приравнивайте самовольный уход к увольнению, то есть найдите мне слова: увольнение по собственному желанию запрещено! smile
    27. passerby
      passerby 4 March 2020 12: 01 New
      -1
      I gave you a link to a decree dated 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX and a textbook where it is written in black and white that one employee’s desire to quit was not enough, it was necessary to obtain the permission of the boss, and this is not called dismissal of his own free will, but dismissal after obtaining the permission of the boss . What could be unclear here?
    28. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 4 March 2020 13: 24 New
      -1
      labor relations in Russia were first regulated by the 1913 Charter of Industrial Labor, where the labor contract could be terminated at the initiative of the party, anyone, in a week. The Labor Code of 18 limited the initiative of the employer with the consent of the trade union body, and you saw 22 for the year .... The boss was obliged to issue permission within 2 weeks, read ..
      Quote: bystander
      where it is written in black and white that one employee’s desire to quit was not enough

      there it was written in black and white that unauthorized withdrawal is prohibited.
      Freedom is always limited by duties smile so write a statement, work it out and go for a walk
    29. passerby
      passerby 4 March 2020 14: 14 New
      0
      Quote: aybolyt678
      labor relations in Russia were first regulated by the 1913 Charter of Industrial Labor, where the labor contract could be terminated at the initiative of the party, anyone, in a week. The Labor Code of 18 limited the initiative of the employer with the consent of the trade union body, and you saw 22 for the year .... The boss was obliged to issue permission within 2 weeks, read ..
      Quote: bystander
      where it is written in black and white that one employee’s desire to quit was not enough

      there it was written in black and white that unauthorized withdrawal is prohibited.
      Freedom is always limited by duties smile so write a statement, work it out and go for a walk


      I even gave you a link to a textbook in which people with advanced degrees explained that it wasn’t about unauthorized leaving, it was about a ban on dismissal of your own free will, and you still continue to say "you're lying." Then give the opinion of scientists who confirm your point of view. Can you?
    30. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 4 March 2020 15: 47 New
      -1
      Yes, I sent you a scan from your own textbook! where dismissal is not prohibited, see my answers! it's just between page 33 and 34
    31. passerby
      passerby 5 March 2020 05: 44 New
      -1
      No, the paragraph about which you wrote referred to the period before 26.06.1940/26.06.1940/XNUMX, can you give the opinion of scientists confirming your position after the entry into force of the decree of XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX?
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Yes, I sent you a scan from your own textbook! where dismissal is not prohibited, see my answers! it's just between page 33 and 34
    32. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 5 March 2020 08: 10 New
      -1
      Igor! With respect to you, I want to remind you about the difference between Truth and Truth. The truth is when a person expresses his Opinion on the basis of the facts known to him. sometimes two people, faithfully believing in what they say, prove the opposite with foam at the mouth. And both are telling the truth wassat
      Do you want the opinion of scientists? I myself am a scientist, PhD, veterinary .... I will tell you the opposite. If the USSR had a rigid attachment to the workplace, then in the works of the Solzhenitsyn and the Shalamovs, this would be written about 100 times more tragic than actually. But there was no problem! Again from the opposite - if someone left work voluntarily, the boss is obliged to load others with this work, to pay extra overtime, while from the departed there is no statement, he also needs to pay! already overrun! What if he became ill? Moreover, dismissals at that time had to be coordinated with the union.
      Let me remind you that in those days, for disrupting the tasks of the Party and the government, they could also shoot the boss! Did you think about that?
      By the way, in the motivation part of your Decree it is said that the aim of the measures is to combat the flyers, these are people who have got several jobs and get several salaries, and sometimes even apartments! Ostapy Bender Yop!
      I recommend that you broaden your horizons to read the verses of young Joseph Dzhugashvili, a 15-year-old boy, one of his poems even entered the Reading Book of Georgian Literature of THAT time, before Stalin appeared!
    33. passerby
      passerby 5 March 2020 08: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: aybolyt678
      Igor! With respect to you, I want to remind you about the difference between Truth and Truth. The truth is when a person expresses his Opinion on the basis of the facts known to him. sometimes two people, faithfully believing in what they say, prove the opposite with foam at the mouth. And both are telling the truth wassat
      Do you want the opinion of scientists? I myself am a scientist, PhD, veterinary .... I will tell you the opposite. If the USSR had a rigid attachment to the workplace, then in the works of the Solzhenitsyn and the Shalamovs, this would be written about 100 times more tragic than actually. But there was no problem! Again from the opposite - if someone left work voluntarily, the boss is obliged to load others with this work, to pay extra overtime, while from the departed there is no statement, he also needs to pay! already overrun! What if he became ill? Moreover, dismissals at that time had to be coordinated with the union.
      Let me remind you that in those days, for disrupting the tasks of the Party and the government, they could also shoot the boss! Did you think about that?
      By the way, in the motivation part of your Decree it is said that the aim of the measures is to combat the flyers, these are people who have got several jobs and get several salaries, and sometimes even apartments! Ostapy Bender Yop!
      I recommend that you broaden your horizons to read the verses of young Joseph Dzhugashvili, a 15-year-old boy, one of his poems even entered the Reading Book of Georgian Literature of THAT time, before Stalin appeared!


      I understand that the opinion of reputable scientists confirming the fidelity of your thesis you can not imagine. Ultimately, all your arguments came down to the childish "but I still don’t see this." Further, continue to “not see” the written documents, when serious scholars, in plain text in the textbook, explain the meaning of the written, it is no longer possible, because it just looks frankly stupid, especially since you couldn’t bring the opinion of scientists confirming your theses, so you went from “denying” the facts to justifying them. But in my opinion there is no policy of enslavement of workers and there can be no justification. The transformation of people into serfs in the 20th century could not justify any good goals. In fact, the 1917 revolution ended with even greater enslavement of the working class and its merciless exploitation, which was not even known in tsarist times. That was the result of the reign of Comrade Stalin. And these are facts, the facts of which they are now trying to counter a set of myths and fairy tales about the “caring grandfather Stalin,” who cared for the unreasonable Soviet people, because apart from myths and fairy tales, the opponents have nothing to object to.
    34. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 5 March 2020 13: 38 New
      -1
      to enslave - for what purpose? I understand when you are a bourgeois, and you want to become rich, but under the Soviet Government, why enslave?
    35. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 6 March 2020 08: 49 New
      +1
      Не тратьте время на демагога. "Борец с мифами" активно пестует мифы иного рода. Указ "О переходе на восьмичасовой рабочий день, на семидневную рабочую неделю и о запрещении самовольного ухода рабочих и служащих с предприятий и учреждений" не отменял КЗоТ 1922 года (и 46 статью). Путь "товарищ" просто укажет в тексте указа, какие именно слова запрещают работнику уволиться (не уйти, а пройти процедуру увольнения, как это устроено во всем цивилизованном мире), если он это решит. Вся суть появления этих ограничивающих указов в том, что в КЗоТе 1922 у "страшных и ужасных" большевиков/коммунистов совершенно не прописана ответственность за нарушение КЗоТа со стороны работника. Поэтому особо ушлые могли творить, что хотели и управы на них не было. Пока, что справедливо, рога обламывать не начали.
      Виза директора на "по собственному желанию" обычная норма, из которой пытаются сделать непонятно что.
    36. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 6 March 2020 15: 01 New
      -1
      Thank you very much friend! touched! frankly it was curious how much he could resist
    37. passerby
      passerby 7 March 2020 15: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: A vile skeptic
      Не тратьте время на демагога. "Борец с мифами" активно пестует мифы иного рода. Указ "О переходе на восьмичасовой рабочий день, на семидневную рабочую неделю и о запрещении самовольного ухода рабочих и служащих с предприятий и учреждений" не отменял КЗоТ 1922 года (и 46 статью). Путь "товарищ" просто укажет в тексте указа, какие именно слова запрещают работнику уволиться (не уйти, а пройти процедуру увольнения, как это устроено во всем цивилизованном мире), если он это решит. Вся суть появления этих ограничивающих указов в том, что в КЗоТе 1922 у "страшных и ужасных" большевиков/коммунистов совершенно не прописана ответственность за нарушение КЗоТа со стороны работника. Поэтому особо ушлые могли творить, что хотели и управы на них не было. Пока, что справедливо, рога обламывать не начали.
      Виза директора на "по собственному желанию" обычная норма, из которой пытаются сделать непонятно что.

      I have already given you links to documents and their interpretation by scientists. Give then you the opinion of scientists confirming your point of view.
  • passerby
    passerby 7 March 2020 15: 17 New
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    to enslave - for what purpose? I understand when you are a bourgeois, and you want to become rich, but under the Soviet Government, why enslave?

    In my opinion, in order to keep the Soviet party leadership in power and realize their ambitions. How are things with references to scientists? As I understand it, they will not be and you were engaged only in ordinary demagogy?
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 29 February 2020 16: 30 New
    -1
    still a small remark - you didn’t tell me the content of the document, but took a suitable phrase out of context. I have read your entire document, I would like similar actions
  • passerby
    passerby 2 March 2020 09: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    still a small remark - you didn’t tell me the content of the document, but took a suitable phrase out of context. I have read your entire document, I would like similar actions

    I quoted a whole paragraph from this document. If you think that other clauses of this document change the content of clause 3, tell me which ones and quote them?
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 February 2020 18: 54 New
    0
    Quote: bystander
    After all, you asked “to substantiate, prove”, so I ask, what proof of my theses do you need? Documents or something else?

    By proving something to someone, you prove first and last only to yourself. The rest of you simply do not understand and do not want to understand.
    1. passerby
      passerby 27 February 2020 05: 49 New
      0
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Quote: bystander
      After all, you asked “to substantiate, prove”, so I ask, what proof of my theses do you need? Documents or something else?

      By proving something to someone, you prove first and last only to yourself. The rest of you simply do not understand and do not want to understand.


      Firstly, you don’t need to speak for everyone, speak for yourself. Secondly, if at least one of the ten thinks about what I wrote, it’s good. And thirdly, the fact that many people cannot or do not want to perceive facts that they do not like and prefer to live in the world of their illusions does not speak in favor of these people. Nevertheless, in my deep conviction, only clarifying and citing specific facts from history can make people think and not get into the same situation that they fell into in the early 90s, when being guided not by facts, but by fairy tales and myths about in the western world they destroyed the USSR. Now, in my opinion, there is a risk that people, guided by myths and tales of the Stalinist USSR, will destroy Russia in the same way.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 27 February 2020 12: 38 New
        0
        Quote: bystander
        Firstly, you don’t need to speak for everyone, speak for yourself.

        And what many were found that support you?
        1. passerby
          passerby 27 February 2020 17: 22 New
          -1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: bystander
          Firstly, you don’t need to speak for everyone, speak for yourself.

          And what many were found that support you?

          Enough :)
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 28 February 2020 13: 40 New
        -1
        Quote: bystander
        Now, in my opinion, there is a risk that people, guided by myths and tales of the Stalinist USSR, will destroy Russia in the same way.

        Россию разрушат не мифы и сказки, а наличие достойного лидера, который не будет "дружбу" с богатеями менять на путь страны.
        myths and tales are actually used from time immemorial to preserve the memory of peoples.
        1. passerby
          passerby 29 February 2020 15: 46 New
          -1
          The substitution of history with myths and fairy tales entails a repetition of the mistakes of the past. Now those who are “nostalgic” for the Stalin era, not knowing anything about her, and drawing their “knowledge” about Stalin from fairy tales and myths, are trying to make our country step on the old rake and repeat the mistakes that were made at the beginning 20th century.
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 29 February 2020 16: 18 New
          -1
          Quote: bystander
          “Nostalgic” for the Stalin era, not knowing anything about her

          Мое детство прошло в Магаданской области.. пацанами мы лазили по "законсервированным" лагерям, баракам и штольням... Будучи уже довольно взрослым человеком начал зачитываться Солженицыным и Шаламовым. До тех пор пока не начал натыкаться на описание родных мест. Потом стоп! этого быть не могло - читаю у Шаламова как зэки в Сеймчане грели обмороженные руки в потрохах у нерпы. Ближайшая нерпа от Сеймчана за 300 км плавает. Затем описывался Лагерь недалеко от Хатарена ручей такой.. так вот по Солженицыну там погибло за зиму 10 тыс ЗэКа! А там всего 2 барака по 40 койко мест. для зеков и административное здание где с уплотнением могут разместится максимум 40 человеко солдат. В тех бараках не гниют письма, там даже кружки на гвоздиках до сих пор висят, там все из лиственницы и вечная мерзлота. Поэтому я верю тому что мне рассказывала мама и бабушка, и что видел сам.
          .
          Quote: bystander
          repeat the mistakes that were made at the beginning of the 20th century.

          I hope you are talking about the mistakes of the king and others? After all, it had to be brought to such a country! sad
  • Doctor
    Doctor 26 February 2020 12: 05 New
    -6
    Now try to be late or take a walk - the owner will fire.

    And before they would have planted.
    Feel the difference...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 27 February 2020 12: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Arzt
      And before they would have planted.
      Feel the difference...

      It turns out you were sitting if you felt the difference.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 27 February 2020 14: 37 New
        +1
        It turns out you were sitting if you felt the difference.

        No, but between dismissal and landing I would choose dismissal. Even in our blessed days.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 2 March 2020 20: 50 New
          -1
          Quote: Arzt
          but between dismissal and landing I would choose dismissal. D

          Dismissal on its own was a guaranteed right!
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 2 March 2020 21: 01 New
            -2
            Dismissal on its own was a guaranteed right!

            DECREE
            from 26 June 1940 of the year
            "О переходе на восьмичасовой рабочий день, на семидневную рабочую неделю и о запрещении самовольного ухода рабочих и служащих с предприятий и учреждений."

            3. To prohibit the unauthorized departure of workers and employees from state, cooperative and public enterprises and institutions, as well as the unauthorized transfer from one enterprise to another or from one institution to another.
            Only the director of the enterprise or the head of the institution can authorize the departure from the enterprise and the institution or the transition from one enterprise to another and from one institution to another.
            4. To establish that the director of the enterprise and the head of the institution is entitled and obliged to give permission for the caretaker and employee to leave the enterprise or the institution in the following cases:
            a) when the worker, employee or employee, according to the conclusion of the medical and labor expert commission, cannot perform the previous work due to illness or disability, and the administration cannot provide him with other suitable work in the same enterprise or institution, or when retired pensionerwants to quit work;
            b) when the worker, employee or employee must stop working in connection with his enrollment in higher or secondary special educational institution.
            5. To establish that workers and employees who voluntarily left state, cooperative and public enterprises or institutions are tried and are sentenced by the people's court to imprisonment from 2 months to 4 months.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 3 March 2020 06: 56 New
              -1
              Unauthorized departure from work and dismissal at will - different things! A worker, having written a statement, had the right to expect that he would be legally dismissed within 2 weeks, technical and engineering month. The charter of railway service 1940 set other standards - a month for a worker and 2 months for engineers.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 3 March 2020 09: 05 New
                -2
                Unauthorized departure from work and dismissal at will - different things!

                The decree does not say “unauthorized”, leaving and dismissing are the same thing. Otherwise, what then does the director allow? Absenteeism?
                Here is the full text:
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 3 March 2020 09: 08 New
                  -1
                  In the title of the Decree unauthorized care. is - Violation of labor discipline. Dismissal is not prohibited, dismissal of one's own free will is a guaranteed right of any Soviet Labor Code, except, perhaps, in wartime ... These are legally different concepts.
                2. Doctor
                  Doctor 3 March 2020 09: 20 New
                  -2
                  In the title of the Decree is unauthorized withdrawal.

                  Yes, I apologize, incorrectly put it, “unauthorized“ implies dismissal of one’s own free will.
                  Otherwise, why is the transition and permission of the director prohibited here?
                  In paragraph 6, dismissal and absenteeism are divided:

                  6. It is established that the directors of enterprises and heads of institutions for evading the trial of those guilty of unauthorized departure from the enterprise and the institution, and those guilty of absenteeism without good reason, are brought to justice.
                3. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 3 March 2020 12: 37 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Yes, I apologize, incorrectly put it, “unauthorized“ implies dismissal of one’s own free will.

                  ripen ... and everything will fall into place
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 26 February 2020 13: 38 New
    +1
    Согласен с вами,а этот тезис "Из истории нужно извлекать уроки" нужно помнить всегда.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 26 February 2020 14: 15 New
    +3
    Quote: bystander
    Lessons must be learned from history, and people instead are held captive by myths about the "beautiful Soviet past" and the "great USSR led by Comrade Stalin."

    Для вас миф, а для меня была реальность, и я не видел "рабов", а вот сейчас вижу свободных граждан промышляющих по помойкам. Молодёжь 15 лет собирается в группы, чтобы расстрелять или взорвать одноклассников в школе. В школах сидят охранники, но происходят убийства детей. Я вот в том же 1956 году ходил в 4 класс, никакой охраны не было, даже вешалки стояли в коридорах, и никто ве воровал, и время то было не такое богатое как сейчас. Для вас всё мифы, а вот реальность которая существует вы не хотите видеть.
    1. passerby
      passerby 26 February 2020 14: 23 New
      -4
      When a person of his own free will cannot quit from one job and go to work at another, while as a punishment for not going to work that you are not allowed to quit, it is a prison, then this is slavery. The fact that the current world is far from ideal and has many shortcomings does not negate the fact that in the USSR Stalin people were slaves. In order to make the present world safer and more comfortable, it is not necessary to turn all the citizens of our country into slaves again, as it was under Stalin.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2020 14: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: bystander

        When a person of his own free will cannot quit from one job and go to work at another, while as a punishment for not going to work that you are not allowed to quit, it is a prison, then this is slavery.

        Я же вас спросил "А вы в том мире жили ?"
        1. passerby
          passerby 26 February 2020 15: 27 New
          -2
          In order to understand that the slave in the construction of the Egyptian pyramids does not live well, living in Ancient Egypt is not necessary. The same applies to the USSR. For a normal person, a slave who cannot control his fate always and everywhere has a bad life, even in the USSR, even in Ancient Egypt.
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: bystander

          When a person of his own free will cannot quit from one job and go to work at another, while as a punishment for not going to work that you are not allowed to quit, it is a prison, then this is slavery.

          Я же вас спросил "А вы в том мире жили ?"
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 26 February 2020 16: 06 New
            0
            Quote: bystander
            In order to understand that the slave in the construction of the Egyptian pyramids does not live well, living in Ancient Egypt is not necessary.

            Now I understand. Slaves are us who live now.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 26 February 2020 10: 53 New
    11
    It would seem easier if you support the views of Posner and Svanidze, then you are the same as these two.
    Stalin ruler of his era. You can talk about the gulags of the time of Roosevelt.
    Finally, Stalin is really criticized by those who destroyed and are destroying Russia.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 26 February 2020 10: 56 New
      +9
      Quote: Gardamir
      It would seem easier if you support the views of Posner and Svanidze, then you are the same as these two.
      Stalin ruler of his era. You can talk about the gulags of the time of Roosevelt.
      Finally, Stalin is really criticized by those who destroyed and are destroying Russia.


      Right I look at the critics of Stalin. Everything, as for selection. I don’t want to join this company. Even for the money.
      1. Slavutich
        Slavutich 26 February 2020 11: 02 New
        +5
        Or do you love Russia and its history, especially its great leaders or you are a Russophobe, there is no third.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 12 New
          +2
          Quote: Slavutich
          Or do you love Russia and its history, especially its great leaders or you are a Russophobe, there is no third

          for some reason I can’t love Nikolai 2 sad am i russophobe ???
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 26 February 2020 11: 21 New
            +3
            Nikolai is German, so you are not Russophobe.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: Gardamir
              Nikolai is German, so you are not Russophobe

              Thank! touched! laughing
            2. bk316
              bk316 26 February 2020 11: 55 New
              +3
              Nikolai is German, so you are not Russophobe.

              Nicholas is German, and Stalin is Russian.
              Here it is a double morality.
              Well, Stalin, who was above moral, because he did great things, and for what?
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 32 New
                0
                Quote: bk316
                Well, Stalin, who was above moral, because he did great things, and for what?

                maybe nationality is a property of the soul? or is it something rhetorical? Or maybe just an attitude towards the country? Stalin, an ethnic Georgian, loved the land and the people on it, and Nicholas was a tsar who did not understand the aspirations of his people, why a German?
                1. bk316
                  bk316 26 February 2020 21: 14 New
                  +2
                  maybe nationality is a property of the soul?

                  No need to invent new entities. There are 2 approaches to nationality.
                  1. Nationality is genetics.
                  2. Nationality is a mentality.
                  I am inclined to the second approach, but Stalin never once possessed the Russian mentality.
                  Most likely he is the first person with a SOVIET mentality, and he is VERY different from Russian. This is one of the main reasons for the collapse of the USSR. Well, it was not possible to create a new community in such a short time - a Soviet person.
                  Well, I think I don’t need to explain about genetics.

                  By the way, you obviously confuse love and understanding. Nikolai just loved Russia, but did not understand at all. But whether Stalin loved Russia was a very big question, but what he understood so surely.
                  1. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 26 February 2020 22: 40 New
                    0
                    + thanks for the reply.
                    Quote: bk316
                    By the way, you obviously confuse love and understanding

                    However:
                    love is measured by the measure of forgiveness
                    the pain of farewell
                    and hatred by the power of that disgust
                    with which you remember your promises
                    Quote: bk316
                    But did Stalin love Russia a very big question,

                    Remember Stalin’s toast for the Russian people? not Soviet, namely Russian? so this is love!
                    Quote: bk316
                    Nikolay just loved Russia,

                    it's like a child loves a nanny! Love without understanding is neutered laughing
          2. Slavutich
            Slavutich 26 February 2020 20: 31 New
            0
            Я же о "великих ее вождях", а не о ком попало
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 26 February 2020 14: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Slavutich
          Or do you love Russia and its history, especially its great leaders or you are a Russophobe, there is no third.

          Мысль ваша категоричная, но мне нравится. Хотя из истории великих вождей мне нравится Иван Грозный, Николай Первый, Александр Третий, Ленин, Сталин ( инородцев не берём). Ну а вот ка считать остальных не упомянутых мною ? Тут тоже можно приклеить, третьего не дано. За тысячу лет существования, России много чего пришлось пережить и испытать. И я до сих пор не могу принять одну сторону в гражданской войне, где с обеих сторон сражались те же русские, и русофобов среди них не было, но среди обоих сторон было много моих дедов и других родственников. Вот как их расставить на "первый, второй".
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Вот как их расставить на "первый, второй".

            You know, there is a law of conservation of good. It is difficult for you, and who smiled at you. supported ... Someday you suddenly just smile and help .. and your smile will walk the world for hundreds of years ... like Christ’s sermons, like Stalin’s self-sacrifice. Hence one must think. smile
        3. Nameless
          Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 13 New
          0
          Oh how! How clever of you to provide a choice between two extremes! But nothing that I say Russia loves, but Stalin and Yeltsin-no? Such as you, imposing such a choice on others - you must drive in the neck!
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 26 February 2020 18: 57 New
        +1
        Quote: sergo1914
        Right I look at the critics of Stalin. Everything, as for selection. I don’t want to join this company. Even for the money.

        Criticizing is always easier. Or maybe they also pay money for it.
        1. Nameless
          Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 15 New
          0
          Money is paid to those who sing laudatory psalms to the holy Kobe. This is the current trend.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2020 16: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Nameless
            Money is paid to those who sing laudatory psalms to the holy Kobe. This is the current trend.

            Only Russophobes pay money.
    2. Nick Russ
      Nick Russ 26 February 2020 10: 59 New
      -2
      ,, It would seem easier if you support the views of Posner and Svanidze, then you are the same as these two. ,,

      Everything would be so simple if there were only two ideologies, communist and liberal. But you need to see a little further than your nose. After all, the world is much wider and deeper.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 26 February 2020 11: 24 New
        +5
        Far wider. Or you break the horde and prepare for space flights. Or your ideology is a country for partners.
        1. Nick Russ
          Nick Russ 26 February 2020 11: 32 New
          -12
          ,, Or you break the horde ,,

          That's it at 41 ,, winners ,, communists fled to Moscow. Only the heels sparkled. After all, they could not do anything except shoot at the back of the head. And Stalin hid in the office, like a child crawled under a bed, and did not go out for three days. And then ordinary people rose and defeated the Nazis. And the seat of Stalin and Co. saved.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Nick Russ
              Nick Russ 26 February 2020 12: 01 New
              -5
              ,, Whose Crimea ?,

              Any doubts? Then all the questions for Putin. He answers this question well.
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 17 New
            +3
            I will reveal the secret after the forty-first was forty-fifth.
            Kutuzov is respected not because he passed Moscow, but because he drove the French.
            1. Nick Russ
              Nick Russ 26 February 2020 13: 03 New
              -3
              ,, Kutuzov is respected not because he passed Moscow, but because he drove the French. ,,
              Moscow was not the capital at that time. Well, if you respect it, then according to your own words, you need Zhukov and Rokossovsky, not Stalin.
          3. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 27 February 2020 12: 35 New
            0
            Quote: Nick Russ
            .

            Quote: Nick Russ
            ,, Or you break the horde ,,

            That's it at 41 ,, winners ,, communists fled to Moscow. Only the heels sparkled. After all, they could not do anything except shoot at the back of the head. And Stalin hid in the office, like a child crawled under a bed, and did not go out for three days. And then ordinary people rose and defeated the Nazis. And the seat of Stalin and Co. saved.

            If you are a foreigner, then you are excusable, but if you are Russian then you are more likely an adept of either Trotsky or Goebbels.
            1. Nick Russ
              Nick Russ 27 February 2020 12: 43 New
              -1
              ,, If you are a foreigner, then you are excusable, but if you are Russian then you are more likely an adept of either Trotsky or Goebbels. ,,

              At least for the sake of decency would write what I'm wrong.
          4. Nameless
            Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 19 New
            0
            Он тогда ещё сказал: "Ленин оставил нам великое наследие, а мы, его последователи, всё это ПРОСРАЛИ!"
            Mikoyan’s memoirs will not let you lie!
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 26 February 2020 11: 24 New
        +5
        Separation is always and everywhere only ONE!
        There are PEOPLE who live their labor, productive forces, creators ... but there are all the rest, the most ardent opponents, those who are accustomed to appropriate the fruits of other people's labor!
        Two opposite quantities, on which everything is hung, different.
        1. Nick Russ
          Nick Russ 26 February 2020 11: 59 New
          -9
          ,, There are PEOPLE who live their labor, productive forces, creators ... ,,

          It is those who are dispossessed, shot, planted their own, who worked harder.
          There, the slogan was, "robbed loot,"
          Where does the neighbor get two cows from? Stole, of course.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 19 New
            +5
            You are well remembered about dispossession. How the Democrats came in 1991 and dispossessed the whole country.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 26 February 2020 12: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: Gardamir
              You are well remembered about dispossession. How the Democrats came in 1991 and dispossessed the whole country.

              Just robbery, under the rituals, sweet songs of all sorts of red and thick-skinned hmm mm devils.
            2. Nick Russ
              Nick Russ 26 February 2020 13: 05 New
              -2
              Liberals disgust me even more than the Communists. But you also forget about the people. Although, that the liberals that the Communists on the people of our army. the main thing
              ,, idea ,,.
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 42 New
                0
                Quote: Nick Russ
                Although, that the liberals that the Communists on the people of our army. the main thing
                ,, idea ,,.

                the communists of the 40s and 50s are not the communists of the 80s. This is even a different country.
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 26 February 2020 12: 30 New
            +1
            Quote: Nick Russ
            Where does the neighbor get two cows from? Stole, of course.

            Time of troubles, a muddy foam of envy, hatred and much more creeps up.
            Tell me, but somewhere, at least once, ELSE WAS ???
            Moreover, all this accumulated long before the events, global changes, it just broke through at one moment. EVERYTHING AS USUAL!
      3. Nameless
        Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 15 New
        0
        Correctly said! The choice is not limited to two extremes! I put you a plus.
    3. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 26 February 2020 11: 55 New
      -5
      it is criticized by those who know how to think elementarily. it even sounds wildly the one who criticizes Stalin the one who destroys Russia ... are you normal at all? if for you he is King and God, then for me a historical person is permissible. which has done so much good and bad.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 24 New
        +2
        That is why I criticize Putin because I know how to think in an elementary way.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 26 February 2020 12: 29 New
          -1
          I don’t call you the destroyer of the country. criticize. it is your right. just be careful in expressions. you yourself do not understand how such statements repel people who might be of the same opinion with you. In general, the feature of the defenders of Stalin is some kind of anger at those who do not agree with them.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 44 New
            +2
            Well, I called other people destroyers. In the historical plan, Stalin was unlucky three times.
            First Nikita, then perestroika. Now, there’s nothing to be proud of, so at least mv the past to spit.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 26 February 2020 12: 52 New
              +1
              I’m not talking about this. I have never treated him badly. I consider many of his decisions necessary, otherwise we would have lost the war. but when I began to read IN, my opinion began to change slowly due to his local defenders. whom do you mean I do not know. I am reading a specific text. and there everything is not as you just said. and if I didn’t tell you, it would be my opinion about him better? I assure you that no. Now you have specified and I understand you.
    4. Varyag71
      Varyag71 26 February 2020 13: 09 New
      +3
      live by the commandments of our party We eat Russia. To lie, rob, slander, destroy.
    5. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 26 February 2020 14: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      Finally, Stalin is really criticized by those who destroyed and are destroying Russia.

      Who stole and steals.
  • Masha
    Masha 26 February 2020 10: 58 New
    +1
    each tries to express his opinion on the figure of Stalin, often choosing an extreme position both in criticism and in praise.

    Both on the one and on the other hand they want to shine ... to cling to the historical person ...
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 13 New
      +6
      no, the personality was uncompromising, therefore extremes in judgments. But the result is painfully good !!!
  • Sergey49
    Sergey49 26 February 2020 10: 59 New
    -12
    If a children's doctor saves children all his life, and then commits a murder or rape, he is sent to prison. Stalin's crimes cannot be justified by any merit.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 26 February 2020 11: 07 New
      +6
      Заслуги его налицо, а вот "преступления" более чем сомнительны.
      For example, the current government does not consider Yeltsin to destroy the country a criminal.
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 26 February 2020 13: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: Gardamir
        Заслуги его налицо, а вот "преступления" более чем сомнительны.Например Ельцина разрушившего страну нынешняя власть не считает преступником.

        Comrade, the fact is that the teacher of our current authorities, Dr. Goebbels, came up with the concept of discrediting the Soviet regime, it was first picked up by the Trotskyist Khrushchev, then the anti-communist traitor Yakovlev
        сперва необходимо «ударить авторитетом Ленина по Сталину», после чего будет нанесен удар Плехановым и социал-демократией по Ленину, в случае успеха, либерализмом и "нравственным социализмом" — по революционаризму вообще
        Now they are hitting both leaders and nothing new.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 26 February 2020 11: 07 New
      +9
      Comrade Stalin’s only crime was that he didn’t manage to shoot all the liberalists .. That our country has hurt itself very painfully.
      1. Olya Tsako
        Olya Tsako 26 February 2020 11: 17 New
        -13
        "Единственное преступление товарища Сталина - не всех либерастов сумел перестрелять"
        .You have naive, childish judgments
        Сразу вспоминается" либераст "Троцкий-кстати,создатель Красной Армии,расстреливавший каждого десятого ,не желавшего вступать в её ряды. И "либераст" Тухачевский,применявший зарин (по приказу папочки Иосифа) против русских крестьян.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 26 February 2020 11: 21 New
          +6
          There is no need to rave. And retell liberal stories.
        2. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 26 February 2020 12: 37 New
          +4
          Tukhachevsky, who used sarin (on the orders of daddy Joseph) against Russian peasants.

          Olga, baby, sarin appeared much later.
        3. fk7777777
          fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 50 New
          0
          Zarina, then there was .... Bullshit do not write
      2. Varyag71
        Varyag71 26 February 2020 13: 17 New
        0
        judging by some comments, the descendants of these garbage are enough
    3. Soviet Union
      Soviet Union 26 February 2020 11: 10 New
      +2
      Is the world black and white?
      Dig into yourself and climb into the loop ...
      Something like this.
  • Olya Tsako
    Olya Tsako 26 February 2020 11: 01 New
    -19
    All the troubles of the USSR and Russia from the Stalinist past. It’s like a child’s unhappy childhood, reflected in his psyche FOR THE WHOLE LIFE REMAINING.
    He interrupted ALL of the associates, revolutionaries and builders of the Soviet Government, how does this characterize the Tiflis thug?
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 26 February 2020 11: 08 New
      +8
      All the troubles of the USSR and Russia from the Stalinist past. It’s like a child’s unhappy childhood, reflected in his psyche FOR THE WHOLE LIFE REMAINING.

      It doesn’t matter, it’s such a watered technology of modern info-war !!! Прошлым страны бьют по ее настоящему чтобы лишить ее будущего !!! По поколению 80-х били "Преступлениями эпохи Сталина" !!! А что поколение молодежи из 80-х могло изменить в своем прошлом ? - можно вопрос ??? В 80-е ничего нельзя было изменить - зато можно было разрушить достижения эпохи Сталина что и сделали !!! И будущее украли !!! И нажились на этом неплохо глядя на круглые улыбающиеся лица ахметовых, чубайсов и абрамовичей !!!

      Я не удивлюсь когда по будущему поколению молодежи например 50-х годов 21-го века будут бить "Преступлениями Путинского времени.." И я уверен что насочиняют страшилок в три короба !!! И страдальцев найдут вагон и жертв массу ну и обвинители и заклеймители конечно тоже найдутся !!!
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Selevc
        будут бить "Преступлениями Путинского времени.."

        under Putin there is only one crime - the criminal irresponsibility of those in power, for assigned tasks of national importance. Everything else is bearable or even good.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 26 February 2020 11: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Olya Tsako
      He interrupted ALL of the associates, revolutionaries and builders of the Soviet Government, how does this characterize the Tiflis thug?

      Learn the history of the French Revolution ...: Mother. which devours its children .. There, at first Louis chopped heads, then Louis chopped heads, then chopped the heads of those who chopped heads Louis, and then came Napoleon outweighed the remnants of the cutters and diverted the attention of the people by the war for a bright world domination with England, for Europe but why then the path to domination lay through Russia ?! How does this characterize Napoleon?
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 26 February 2020 11: 55 New
        +2
        [quote=aybolyt678][quote=Оля Цако]за Европу но почему то путь к господству лежал через Россию ?! как это характеризует Наполеона?[/quote] Нормально. Гитлер тоже воевал с Англией, но пошел на СССР. Закон природы, точнее денег. Кто платит, тот и заказ делает. Карл 12 делил острова с Данией, но получил деньги на войну с Россией у Англии и поскакал к Полтаве.
      2. Mouse
        Mouse 26 February 2020 13: 31 New
        +3
        Notice ... no one sprinkles ashes on his head ...
    3. knn54
      knn54 26 February 2020 11: 27 New
      +9
      Julia, I repeat. I sat in a cafe (Kharkov) about twenty years ago. Chechens were near. Some of the drunkards began to speak very unflattering about Stalin. Then the eldest of the Caucasians came up and just said, don’t dare, it was a great man. The words were spoken by the representative deported people.
      Read the memoirs, for example, Molotov’s repressed wife, who said, Stalin was right.
      Examples can not be counted.
    4. Egoza
      Egoza 26 February 2020 11: 51 New
      +5
      Quote: Olya Tsako
      He interrupted ALL of the associates, revolutionaries and builders of the Soviet Government, how does this characterize the Tiflis thug?

      У-тю-тю! В церковь сходите. Там вам объяснят, что "Сталин был орудием Божиим, который покарал тех, кто поднял руку на помазанника Божьего"
    5. fk7777777
      fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 49 New
      0
      All troubles are from people who consider Coca-Cola to be holy water.
  • nikolai_2
    nikolai_2 26 February 2020 11: 05 New
    +6
    It is interesting what Svanidze would say in 1937, because now he is allowed to speak, he speaks, and they will forbid him, he will be silent. It is unlikely that these talkers are capable of something else. This is a story, this is a fact
    .
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 11: 13 New
      0
      It is interesting what Svanidze would say in 1937

      Glory to the Party, People, Stalin!

      100%
  • Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 26 February 2020 11: 17 New
    +3
    I can’t argue personally from myself, I was born later, but what my mother and father told me ... You know, raising Dzhugashvili to the rank of great villain is not true. These are liberals.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 26 February 2020 11: 18 New
    +6
    Stalin appears as the messiah who made an incredible civilizational contribution.
    А разве нет? Воссоздал страну, спас, сохранил, вывел на первое место в мире во всех областях. За что и сгубили агенты англичанки. Мало власть взять, нужно что бы сказали: "молодец!"
    After his death, the fall began. The arbitrariness of officials and Khrushchev.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 26 February 2020 11: 31 New
      -13
      Recreated the country

      So at first he was actively involved in the destruction. By today's standards - a terrorist.
      saved, saved

      So at first I almost ruined, making a deal with the devil.
      brought to first place in the world in all areas

      So at what cost? At the cost of slavery for most of the population?
      For whom is this pedestal with first place and these indicators?
      Only for him alone.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 54 New
        +4
        I read and laughed. How true you are about modernity.
        Well, take at least Yeltsin. Actively destroying the country, made a deal with the Americans. Now he has a monument. But you can not only about Yeltsin.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 26 February 2020 11: 21 New
    10
    And what exactly is he accused of, if the repression, so I would be the first to put a bald corn breeder. And who wrote 4 million denunciations to friends and acquaintances? And the execution of course was also due to lack of education and cliches in the brain.
    And honestly, the current liberals, former members of the CPSU and outright traitors of their country who destroyed the USSR, I think will be typed not less, but rather more, judging by the number of rich people.
  • Loess
    Loess 26 February 2020 11: 31 New
    -8
    Mdya ... Comparing the time of publication of the article, the duration of the video and the time of writing the comments ... In general, no one watched the video. All races rushed to comment.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 26 February 2020 11: 34 New
      +9
      What to watch? Svanidze, Gozman, Pozner - human garbage, garbage. They were not a part of the people, they are always called slaves except as slaves. Since the opinion of the people does not coincide with their opinion.
      And so that at the end of the film they say that Stalin is good, why should all this dirt be let through? Another dirt. I didn’t look, but I condemn.
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 26 February 2020 12: 59 New
      +3
      Well, to be honest, when I heard Svanidze’s words, I wrote a comment, and then I watched it.
  • Andrey the Magnificent
    Andrey the Magnificent 26 February 2020 11: 32 New
    15

    Both sons were at the front with Stalin and that says a lot !!!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 26 February 2020 11: 41 New
      +6
      Winston Churchill once called Russia a sleeping giant who himself does not know his strength ... Между прочим очень умный политик был хоть и враг !!! Так вот эпоха Сталина это период когда этот гигант только начал просыпаться... Естественно весь "цивилизованный мир" от одесской бессарабки до Уолл стрит начал вопить о "Русской угрозе" - вопят до сих пор !!! И естественно пытаются посильней замазать этот период нашего прошлого...

      Who blames Russia for all sins ??? People who themselves cleared two continents from the local population !!! Today in North America and Australia there is not a single national state !!!
      Often they write and say that Aborigines and Indians are few in number - writes a generation about those whose fathers and grandfathers exterminated them !!! Such a geopolitical pun !!!
    2. fk7777777
      fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 47 New
      0
      And not the general and, that's for sure ...
  • bober1982
    bober1982 26 February 2020 11: 33 New
    -8
    I respect A.A. Prokhanov with respect, but his statement about many monks who considered Stalin holy, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. There was respect and fear on their part, as to the leader of the country, nothing more. Of course, Stalin was not a believer.
    Both warring parties, in assessing Stalin’s personality, as they say, go too far, and both begin to compose stories about Stalin.
  • Alex 2020
    Alex 2020 26 February 2020 11: 42 New
    16
    Stalin was not a saint; he was not a scoundrel and a tyrant. He was a man who knew how to lead a great country, managed to boost the country's economy (not one of course, but still). Give people a decent life. Stalin was a man who, if he said something, he did. But he was not a talker and promises. As for the repression and everything else, my grandfather, his father were regular officers of the tsarist army, his grandmother was from a family of so-called kulaks. Her father served in the Gendarmerie. However, there were no reprisals in this regard against them, their relatives were not! As with their friends and acquaintances. Grandfather served in the Red Army, passed Finnish and WWII. Grandmother served in the NKVD, has a letter of appreciation signed by I.V. Stalin. They treated Stalin with respect! He was respected by the people! It's my opinion.
    PS Minusoids, go .... do good deeds and benefit your country!
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 26 February 2020 11: 58 New
      -10
      Quote: Alexey 2020
      PS Minusoids, go ....

      Why dissemble? Who will minus such a comment, tearing applause.
      Quote: Alexey 2020
      Give people a decent life

      If you just call life half-starving, worthy of life, and not all grandmothers served in the NKVD.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 26 February 2020 12: 31 New
        -9
        not all grandmothers served in the NKVD

        Cool! I would put a dozen pluses, but you can not! drinks
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 26 February 2020 20: 57 New
        0
        Quote: bober1982
        If you just call life half-starving, worthy of life, and not all grandmothers served in the NKVD.

        famine in the USSR in the 30s is the last famine that was in Russia, with the exception of wartime, Stalin came to stay, he corrected and provided us ... read what measures the tsarist government carried out to combat hunger.
  • Sklendarka
    Sklendarka 26 February 2020 11: 58 New
    +6
    Quote: bober1982
    I respect A.A. Prokhanov with respect, but his statement about many monks who considered Stalin holy, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. There was respect and fear on their part, as to the leader of the country, nothing more. Of course, Stalin was not a believer.
    Both warring parties, in assessing Stalin’s personality, as they say, go too far, and both begin to compose stories about Stalin.

    I respect the work of V.S. Vysotsky
    -,,...Вы здесь из ,,Искры'' раздували пламя,
    спасибо Вам,я греюсь у костра...''. Там же
    -,,товарищ Сталин,Вы большой учёный...''
    I have not heard bad reviews in my family. He was neither repressed nor convicted, although his father was a prisoner, his mother and grandfather were driven into Germany and freed by their allies.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 26 February 2020 12: 07 New
      -3
      Quote: Skalendarka
      I respect the work of V.S. Vysotsky

      Quote: Skalendarka
      ,,товарищ Сталин,Вы большой учёный...''

      Yuz Aleshkovsky
      1. Sklendarka
        Sklendarka 26 February 2020 17: 05 New
        +1
        Там же ,,за ...,допросы в МУРе,спасибо нашей областной прокуратуре...''
        Read the classics ....
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 26 February 2020 18: 37 New
          -1
          Quote: Skalendarka
          Там же ,,за ...,допросы в МУРе,спасибо нашей областной прокуратуре...''
          Read the classics ....

          You all beguiled ........, where did you find? ... Ibid.
          After all, these are two completely different songs.
          By the way, the song of Yuz Aleshkovsky is an anti-Soviet, mocking parody, Stalin would hardly have liked it. Are you interested in Anti-Soviet?
  • Barmaleyka
    Barmaleyka 26 February 2020 12: 04 New
    +6
    he is not a saint and not a murderer, he is the head of state and unfortunately he had to choose not between good and bad, but between bad and terrible
    in addition, the height of idiocy to evaluate historical personalities in terms of morality of today
  • bk316
    bk316 26 February 2020 12: 04 New
    +6
    Steel solved the great challenges facing the country. Could he solve them by other methods? Maybe yes maybe no ... No one can say for sure. But the fact that he DECIDED THEM is a fact, a historical fact.
    It is him who is trying to cover up with Svinadze and other chatter about murderer.

    And by the way, Putin also solved his task - to prevent the collapse of the Russian Federation. As I could, I decided so. Therefore, conversations that he could do it differently are the same Swinadzian conversations.

    It never ceases to amaze me how liberalists in their objections close with the Zagrudinites, and so on. zakprftsami. Zealots one word ....
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 26 February 2020 12: 07 New
      -3
      It never ceases to amaze me how liberalists in their objections close with the Zagrudinites, and so on. zakprftsami.

      grants from one box office.

      The United States generally drowned for sternum and did not hesitate, Zyuganov walked to the US ambassador with smiles under the camera.

    2. Doctor
      Doctor 26 February 2020 12: 34 New
      -7
      It never ceases to amaze me how liberalists in their objections close with the Zagrudinites, and so on. zakprftsami.

      But how do the Stalinists get in touch with Putiners? Doesn’t it bother you?
      1. bk316
        bk316 26 February 2020 12: 37 New
        +2
        set by Yeltsin

        Who cares who put whom - already change the training manual.
        Well, or turn on the brain and ask the question who put the horsetail or who put Gorbachev?

        And no, it doesn’t bother, because both the GDP and Stalin are certainly a lot of similarities. The scale of the personality is slightly different, the tools and methods are different, but the tasks are generally similar.
        And who do you think of the current Russian politicians closest to Stalin?
        Zhirik? Siu? Maybe Medvedev or Kudrin? laughing
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2020 13: 30 New
          -4
          Who cares who put whom

          I mean, here, some people manage to hate Yeltsin and adore Putin at the same time.
          And no, it doesn’t bother, because both the GDP and Stalin are certainly a lot of similarities.

          Naturally. They are both STATES. That is why many here respect them at the same time.
          But.
          The question is how to build a state, at what cost and at whose expense. If at the expense of the well-being and life of their people, then who needs such a state?
          Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Tamerlan, Ivan the Terrible, Peter I, Hitler, Pol Pot, Pinochet ...
          И
          Catherine II, Alexander III, Washington, Churchill, Roosevelt, Trump at last.
          It is possible without bloodthirst.
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2020 13: 41 New
          -8
          And who do you think of the current Russian politicians closest to Stalin?

          Kadyrov.
          When they talk about Stalin, they seem to forget that he is an ethnic Georgian, that is, a Caucasian. This is one of the most important sources for understanding his personality. The representative of a small nation, by the will of fate abandoned to the top of the power of a vast empire. Yes, and very unexpected. Fox entrusted to the chicken coop.
          But he always remembered his roots and did a lot to make himself internationalist.
          Choose Kadyrov and he will put things in order.
          1. place
            place 26 February 2020 15: 47 New
            +3
            Quote: Arzt
            Choose Kadyrov and he will restore order

            ----------------------
            Quote: Arzt
            This is one of the most important sources for understanding his personality.

            -------------
            The most important source in understanding his personality is the long way of Stalin in the party of Lenin.
            Авторитет и доверие товарищей по партии, заработанное даже не трудом, а личными подвигами. Будь он сто раз кавказец- без авторитета в партии он не стал бы её лидером. КАКОЕ ОБЩЕСТВО- ТАКИХ ГЕРОЕВ ОНО И ВЫДВИГАЕТ. А в нашем современном обществе слово "авторитет", означает совсем иное, чем сто лет назад.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 26 February 2020 16: 01 New
              -3
              The most important source in understanding his personality is the long way of Stalin in the party of Lenin.

              Of course. But you have to start from birth.
              not even by labor, but by personal exploits.

              Exactly. You know their nature. Plusanul.
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 26 February 2020 21: 03 New
            -1
            Quote: Arzt
            Choose Kadyrov and he will put things in order.

            + For some reason I think the same. Although there is a doubt worm ... I don’t know how it relates to socialism.
            1. fk7777777
              fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 42 New
              0
              No way, and what order, there may be different things
          3. fk7777777
            fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 44 New
            0
            Even close, no, this is your personally superficial opinion, ...
          4. Nameless
            Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Arzt
            Choose Kadyrov and he will put things in order.

            Да ну нафиг - "кто не с нами тот под нами", "кавказ сила", "кяфиры" и прочее перлы оставили в нулёвых неизгладимые впечатления.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 27 February 2020 16: 35 New
              +1
              Oh, what for

              Thats exactly what I mean.
              He simply answered the question: “Which of the current politicians is closest to Stalin?”

              When the Stalinists abstractly talk about those times, this is one thing.

              And when you offer an example of a leader of Russia with a Caucasian mentality from today's reality, the reasoner works better.
              1. Nameless
                Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 47 New
                +1
                Тогда прошу прощения за возможный резкий тон (я уже не помню кому тут и что писал) - по стилю просто принял вас за либераста. Да и как наткнулся на упоминания кавказцев - так глаза застила пелена. Не складывались с ними "братские" отношения ни разу, всё время это сводилось к одному: как ты общаешься с одним представителем гордого горного народа как с другом - так он тебе друг, а как один оказываешься в окружении его и его земляков - так начинаешь чувствовать себя среди червивых стен. Всё время свой шовинизм и национализм вперемешку с откровенным дикарством выставляли напоказ.
        3. fk7777777
          fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 45 New
          0
          Big, frames decide everything ...
  • AlexO
    AlexO 26 February 2020 12: 09 New
    +3
    What Stalin did not take away was the fact that the fate of this country and this people was the main and only thing for him in life. Unlike the current ones.
    1. fk7777777
      fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 41 New
      0
      True, but the personal mentality of the people, he still did not change, although he tried very hard.
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 26 February 2020 12: 11 New
    0
    All directly insert black and white ratings.
    But in fact it was both.
    Both competence and incompetence.
    And the country has achieved a lot and has profiled a lot.
    And 4 pre-war Air Force Commanders of that ..., 7 of 12 Navy Commanders also of that ...
    1. place
      place 26 February 2020 15: 55 New
      -4
      Quote: Max1995
      And the country has achieved a lot and has profiled a lot

      -------------------------
      В стране шла борьба, которая закончилась тем, что страну "съели". То есть не "страна профуфукала"- а сами рабочие и крестьяне свою рабоче- крестьянскую страну профуфукали, пропили, просрали, проссали.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 26 February 2020 21: 06 New
        0
        Quote: ort
        and the workers themselves and peasants profufukuvali their worker-peasant country

        strongly disagree. It is up to the worker to stand behind the machine and improve his skills in his spare time. The doctor’s business is to treat people. Top affair edit. People were zombified by the Party, they believed that they knew what they were doing at the top. And they really knew at the top .. Perestroika was carried out according to the notes. sad
        1. fk7777777
          fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 39 New
          0
          In order to carry out perestroika, it was first necessary to organize, Brezhnev’s stagnation, and then, .... as they say, a preparatory process is needed.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 27 February 2020 14: 34 New
            0
            Quote: fk7777777
            . as they say need a preparatory process

            The preparatory process began with the formation of a party-trading layer, which in essence was bourgeois. They turned a blind eye ... but the people grew discontent.
        2. place
          place 27 February 2020 13: 49 New
          -1
          Quote: aybolyt678
          It is up to the worker to stand behind the machine and improve his skills in his spare time. The doctor’s case to treat people

          -----------
          Quote: aybolyt678
          People were zombified by the Party, they believed that they knew above

          -----------------------
          Вот- вот... Вы сами тут же и объяснили, почему СССР погиб ! ИМЕННО ПОТОМУ , что "Сим молитву деет, яфет власть имеет, а , пардон- ХАМ (рабочее ) - зерно сеет".
          If he is graciously allowed to sow, winnow, etc. But he does not dare to climb into the affairs of the master. THIS DIAGRAM WORKS JUST TODAY, NOT DURING THE USSR. Are you satisfied with her work?

          The fact is that this PARTY was originally created as the ruling party of the labor movement. As soon as the labor movement ran out, everything collapsed.

          Никто и нигде не берёт власть "для кого-то". Власть берут только для себя. И добиваются своего только сами. Повсюду в Мире и во все времена. Работая у станка или вращая хвосты коровам- справедливости в этом мире не добьёшься.
  • yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 26 February 2020 12: 44 New
    0
    Popular Support Team:
    Ivan Gennadevich T.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 26 February 2020 12: 53 New
      -1
      Quote: yuliatreb
      Popular Support Team:
      Ivan Gennadevich T.

      What did you want to say, Vasilisa Yulievna?
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 26 February 2020 13: 01 New
    +3
    GOOD FELLOWS !!! Great movie! For viewing in the SCHOOL MANDATORY !!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 26 February 2020 13: 09 New
      +1
      Try to convince at least one Frenchman that Napoleon is a murderer, a tyrant and a murderer - he will smile at the best and twist his finger at the temple !!! But during the entire period of Napoleon's reign, the first secret police of Foucher worked and the heads of the French rained down on the block and on the battlefields ... And all because the French in their mass are real patriots of their country and understand that the period of Bonaparte’s rule is the heyday France !!!
      And only in Russia is such lawlessness possible that at every corner they engage in self-humiliation and defame their main leader of the 20th century !!!

      But Svanidze and the Poznars overdid too much by pouring mud on the Stalin era - people themselves began to delve into the essence of the issue and figure out who was right and who was to blame !!! Therefore, in the former Soviet Union, despite decades of propaganda, a process is underway to cleanse our past and especially this period of our country's history !!!
  • depressant
    depressant 26 February 2020 13: 24 New
    +4
    Outstanding movie!
    Many thanks to the creative team!
    The surnames of many are indicated by dots. It’s clear why. The grin of capitalism is terrible.
    And only after watching the film did it finally come to the fore why the remnants of Soviet industry were being ruined and their own was not created (which new enterprise is not a hoof, it is jointly with the western one, which means it is controlled). In order not only to forget about the Soviet past, to exclude it from the consciousness of new generations, as I thought before, but also to create our own industry, therefore, a working class that can withstand capital.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 26 February 2020 16: 17 New
    +1
    For a long time I have not heard such a revelation. Everything is here. Both the past and the present. Well done!
  • Dmitry Zverev
    Dmitry Zverev 26 February 2020 16: 35 New
    -1
    Do not find that the enemies of the people at all times were full. Only deal with them in modern times is not accepted. Not fashionable or something.
    1. fk7777777
      fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 35 New
      0
      Well, depending on what kind of enemies, for example, if infants were dying in the Stolypen carriage at the stage, they were not even allowed to bury them. If the corpse of a one-year-old child is the main enemy, then forgive this state for sure? And there are many such examples. For example, the city of Kirovsk, Murmansk region, they just did nothing in the 1930s, surrounded the place with a thorn in the taiga, drove the stages there, and that’s it. Children from one to three years old died almost immediately, of course, these are the most sworn enemies of the state, right?
  • fk7777777
    fk7777777 27 February 2020 07: 28 New
    0
    In principle, two authorities were clearly traced in the country, on the one hand, Stalin, and on the other, all local princes, such as Khrushchev, who also carried out their repressions and blamed the central government. And there were still atrocities, especially from simple performers and small shes, graters. Some small performer simply killed children, old people, women, and of course the most important is to blame.
    1. place
      place 27 February 2020 14: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: fk7777777
      In principle, two power was clearly traced in the country, on the one hand, Stalin, and on the other, all local princes, such as Khrushchev, who also carried out their repressions,

      --------------------------------------

      Как это у Маяковского ? " Мы говорим- партия, подразумеваем..... " и т.д. Так- не надо !
      You have to understand the essence of the matter.

      ONE PERSON CAN’T RULE THE STATE. Rules - the ruling stratum of society, managers. The coherence of their actions is achieved by common party ideas. Stalin was only the first and most popular leader in the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and received power from his party, and not by inheritance, as the tsars received. (Stalin was appointed to the post of minister in two people's commissariats at once, only by Lenin. And already in 1923, Stalin lost all posts in the government until 1940)

      А вот возможность создания такого правящего слоя - ОПРЕДЕЛЯЕТСЯ УРОВНЕМ РАЗВИТИЯ ОБЩЕСТВА. Если общество - диковатое, то будут и массовые нарушения законности и местные князьки и каждый начальник- царь и бог ...... и "закон, что дышло".... Ещё А.С. Пушкин писал :
      "Обычай- деспот средь людей". Государственный закон не устоит против обычая. А в итоге- всё развалилось. И теперь пришло в соответствие с многовековыми обычаями России ...... местничество...сословное разделение... не выплата зарплаты. ..засилье чиновников и военщины... . стагнация экономики.
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 01 New
    0
    Oh, how did you get with you ... I, though not a liberal, but I hate Stalin for the methods of his rule. I say, okay, there setting clear tasks for your subordinates, rigorous and firm control over their implementation, and in case of negligence or crime - an inevitable punishment (most politicians are capable of this). But what for was so go too far in terms of terror of their own people? He seemed to be trying to suppress the population as an occupier! He is similar to the Egyptian pharaoh at the construction of the pyramid or the Golden Horde Khan, taking away tribute from Russian lands! Or like a Chinese mandarin sending people to build the China Wall! Are you out of your mind to idolize him?
    Here, by the way, one remark is still very relevant: if Hitler was so shabby about Jews because of childhood impressions formed by a nanny of Jewish nationality, then Stalin was mentally crazy because his father mercilessly cheated on his mother, or the episode when he the carriage hit - he is the most natural unbalanced misanthrope! He deserves to be on the same podium with Yeltsin!
    The phenomenon of fanatics' love for him and his idolization have a completely justified reason - this is hibristophilia.
    Стыдно за вас, соотечественники. Именно таких фанатиков как вы свидомые рагули называют "тупыми ватниками". И как бы мне не было горько от этого - мне приходится глядя на вас соглашаться с этим.
    А предложения Кадырова в президенты прикольнуло: то ли это давний план ов по установлению в нашей стране национал-большевизма, то ли современная молодёжь переиграла в игры по мотивам произведений Тома Клэнси или "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare". В любом случае из этого не выйдет ничего хорошего для нашей страны.
    And now I’m waiting for accusations that I am a liberalist (to you bald - I’m a democrat) - you all who disagree with your opinion are either enemies of the people, or liberals, or served the Reich during the Second World War! That's it, I'm done.
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 09 New
    0
    Quote: aybolyt678
    Quote: bystander
    Stalin turned the citizens of the USSR into serfs.

    serfs and slaves are two incompatible things. Peasants have property, no slaves. In your presentation, these are simply words symbolizing suffering.
    USSR documentation is also a symbol of your readiness to fight for humiliated serf slaves. But these slaves flew into space and won the war and nuclear weapons .... and began to consider themselves offended only when the partocratic bourgeoisie appeared in the USSR.

    But what about the collective farmers, whom the burry promised land, but in fact they drove them to collective farms by famine - were they not serf slaves who also worked for workdays and did not have passports and the right to leave for the cities before the beginning of the 80s?
  • place
    place 27 February 2020 16: 14 New
    -1
    Quote: s-t Petrov
    the current Communist Party franchise would have cried if Stalin had suddenly appeared from nowhere; Stalin would have been surprised to look at the party and Zyuganov and Grudinin

    ---------------------------

    As a leader, Stalin appeared at one time quite definitely from the CPSU. And the flowers in the photo brought just the activists of the Communist Party. If there were none, you would not have to write about the attitude of the people towards Stalin. There would be no argument. I can say one thing for sure: Stalin would have been surprised to find out that the Soviet people turned out to be in fact ANTISOVETIAN. THIS IS, BLN ........ WAS A SURPRISE FOR STALIN!
  • place
    place 27 February 2020 16: 33 New
    -1
    Quote: Nameless
    Oh, how did you get with you ... I, though not a liberal, but I hate Stalin for the methods of his rule ...... But what for so go too far in terms of terror of their own people? That's it, I'm done.

    -------------

    1. Если не понимаешь "нафига"- подумай, а как было на самом деле? Умный отличается от глупого тем, что делает выводы не раньше, чем понимает истинные мотивы. Глупому их можно не объяснять вообще, на то он и есть , чтобы просто верить.
    2. Главное, что может сделать лидер любой политической партии- это установить законодательство в стране. На то в СССР был Верх Совет СССР. Претензии к советским законам есть ? ГОСУДАРСТВО УПРАВЛЯЕТСЯ НЕ "МЕТОДАМИ", А ПО ЗАКОНАМ ,
    СЛЫХАЛ ? "Методы" на местах определяются культурой и нравами общества, а не Сталиным.
    3. Надо писать " Я закончил". Кончают в спальне.
    1. Nameless
      Nameless 27 February 2020 22: 06 New
      0
      Как мне писать - "кончить" или "закончить" - это моё дело. Вы не преподаватель, а я не ваш ученик чтобы вы могли мне указывать как мне правильно это делать. Я не у вас в подчинении! Тем более "кончить" вы сами восприняли в меру своей испорченности и пошлости.
      Laws are one thing. And the methods of government (as well as political regimes) are different. They are different: totalitarian, authoritarian, democratic and others. Koba followed the first method. Moreover, his actions were clearly terrorist.
      Ну давайте-давайте, начинайте мне рассказывать о истинных мотивах, о мудрейший: и про то что "время такое было", и про "врагов народа" мне расскажите, и про "неожиданное вероломное нападение нацистов" не забудьте, и прочие оправдания замолвите пару словечек. История я так понял делится на три категории: первая беспристрастно-объективная, вторая в изложении либерастов чтобы пошатнуть устои государственности, и третья в изложении коммунистов - зааганжированая в сторону оправдания их действий. Сюдя по тому что вы не терпите никаких отклонений от коммунистического "канона" - вы из третьей группы, а мне наверняка припишите "вторую", хотя на самом деле я сторонник "первой"
      То-то он сначал то к одной фракции примыкал, поддерживал её - за это получал определённые "плюшки" в виде привелегий и должностей, потом к другой - с соответствующими "плюшками". А когда уже сосредоточил в своих руках почти абсолютную власть - то тут же чистки начались, борьба с "польскими шпионами", "врагами народа", "вредителями", расстрелы своих же бывших соратников по партии. Напоминает человека, который проявил недюжую изворотливость и хитрость чтобы хорошо устроиться - а потом не гнушащегося никакой подлостью и жестокостью ради сохранения своей власти. Тиран одним словом. Как Людовик "Великое Солнце", который смолвил "государство - это Я".
      I wonder how you would sing, if God forbid, the troubles of 37-38 years would happen to you at the present time?
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    I mean, here, some people manage to hate Yeltsin and adore Putin at the same time.

    Do not try to interfere in one heap liberalist Yeltsin and Democrat Putin. The second, after the first, lifted the country off its knees: it tamed the bandits, wrapped the tails of the oligarchs from the Yeltsin’s cage, eliminated the terrorist threat, put things in order in the Caucasus, rallied the country, stabilized the economy, raised revenues, modernized and modernized the Ministry of Internal Affairs, armed forces, and converted the Ministry of Internal Affairs into FSVNG - even though he didn’t completely solve some problems, he really did a lot of good so that the people would treat him well. But for liberalism, he will always be an obstacle to sneaking into power and repeating the 90s again - and therefore they will try to mercilessly insinuate him.
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 16: 41 New
    0
    Quote: tihonmarine
    Only Russophobes pay money.

    Russophobes are different - some liberals dream of returning again to the 90s, others neo-Stalinist and sovco-docher - dream of a civil war, totalitarianism and repression.
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 17: 47 New
    0
    Quote: Moore
    Передёргиваете. Результат личного патриотизма у каждого свой. Не беда тянущего лямку и не увольняющегося лейтёхи с полуголодной семьёй из 90-х, что у партаппаратчиков, замутивших развал СССР, этого патриотизма не оказалось. Где он был тогда? Да сгинул где-то в "конфликтах низкой интенсивности". Нет результата? Результат есть - Вы с уютного дивана можете обвинять вот таких невзрачных патриотов в утопизме совершенно безнаказанно. Гулять по улицам вечером, опять же. А что развалили - так ещё не кончено ничего. Посмотрим, чья возьмет.

    So many Soviet patriots in the 91st took to the streets in support of the Emergency Committee laughing
    Quote: Moore
    And what has collapsed is nothing is over. Let's see who takes it.

    Я бы порекомендовал бы вам с вашим "ГРП РСФСР в составе СССР" (и им подобным "организациям") свои языки запихнуть в свои задницы и спилить мушки! am
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 17: 51 New
    0
    Quote: tihonmarine
    And then nobody was planted, listen more to the adherents of Goebbels and various Guzmans, Pozners and the like.

    Ага, и за "колоски" по одноимённому закону наверное никого не расстреливали!
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 18: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Ptolemy Lag
    Utopian-Stalinists? No, we have another name - patriots (not to be confused with cheers-patriots) of their country. But you (with a small letter) do not understand, you NasRat ...

    Yes, you are not patriots - you are the most ordinary radical fanatics, a potential likeness of ISIS. In modern realities you are a tandem to the liberals in a team of five-columnists.
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 18: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Yes, yes, it was just that ... laughing laughing laughing And Stalin also ate babies for breakfast. And Beria was bathed in a bath of virgin blood.
    Where did you get such fool from?

    Brother, listen - yes, I see judging by the profile picture in the North Caucasus Republic I served! Or no? So, for a show-off, I fastened it, like before some spirits in parts of the GRU had stuffed themselves with the same-name tattoo (and then they were given a brick and the order to erase it for them)? I think the officers did not intelligibly explain to you that if you are no longer serving, then you don’t have the right to carry the symbols of the BB and FSVNG?
    PS Yes, in principle, you can not answer - I already made inquiries. Vshnik and neostalinist in one bottle - this is a difficult case!
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 19: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Yes, yes, it was just that ... laughing laughing laughing And Stalin also ate babies for breakfast. And Beria was bathed in a bath of virgin blood.
    Where did you get such fool from?

    Именно из-за таких как ты нынешних гвардейцев макают в грязь и называют "нацистами" и "опричниками"!
  • Nameless
    Nameless 27 February 2020 22: 17 New
    0
    Quote: knn54
    Julia, I repeat. I sat in a cafe (Kharkov) about twenty years ago. Chechens were near. Some of the drunkards began to speak very unflattering about Stalin. Then the eldest of the Caucasians came up and just said, don’t dare, it was a great man. The words were spoken by the representative deported people.

    Yes, but in 1994, we Russians took revenge for this very deportation, as if we had arranged it.
  • passerby
    passerby 7 March 2020 15: 15 New
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    Thank you very much friend! touched! frankly it was curious how much he could resist

    As I understand it, you still could not bring the opinions of scientists confirming your theses.
  • seacap
    seacap 19 March 2020 13: 41 New
    0
    Любой руководитель от детского сада до империи всегда оценивается по итогам своей деятельности. А оценивать методы,особенно с позиций современных реалий,да еще недоразвитым умишком,не зная 1/100 фактов и реалий,совершенно некорректно. "Кровавый тиран" Сталин и "няшный, трусоватый болтун" Горби,а теперь сравнить итоги их правления и стартовые условия. Первый в условиях полнейшей международной изоляции из территории с тотально безграмотным населением,запредельной преступностью и саботажем,международным терроризмом и пр., с нуля со своей "командой" создал могучую державу,под его руководством победили в битве с объединенным Западом и создал фундамент, определяющий на долгие годы мироустройство на планете. Второй, уничтожил могучую державу, предал свои идеалы и вверенную страну,уничтожил все завоевания всего нашего многонационального государства за несколько тысяч лет и останется в памяти народа навеки в ряду предателей и самых ничтожных личностей,как Годунов и Лжедмитрии,как Керинский и т.п..
  • seacap
    seacap 19 March 2020 13: 52 New
    0
    Quote: Nameless
    Yes, but in 1994, we Russians took revenge for this very deportation, as if we had arranged it.

    Они и не мстили, банально происходило то же самое,что и в Сирии или в Ливии, тот же международный терроризм под руководством и со снабжением от наших заокеанских"партнеров". Самих коренных чеченцев в этих бандформирования,точнее войсковых соединениях,было не так уж и много,в основном там был весь "сброд"с Востока,постсоветского пространства,обученный и оснащенный в зарубежных военных центрах.
    As for deportation, it is also not so simple as with the Crimean Tatars, the only one from the Caucasian republics where the Nazis were met with bread and salt, where there was a line of volunteers in the formation of the SS units. As, however, in the Crimea, where the local Tatars killed Jews, partisans and prisoners of war more than the German invaders.
  • Joker62
    Joker62 30 March 2020 07: 28 New
    0
    Hello everyone, dear visitors of MO!
    I decided to give you a link to a resource where a good medium, Slavina Irina Georgievna, communicated with the Spirit of Stalin.
    To be honest, at first I did not believe what was written and said. But having driven away from the sources, especially from the memoirs of those people who were close to Stalin. A lot of things cleared up for me.
    And now, I understand how difficult the times were in the last century.
    Yes, Stalin was an excellent leader of the country, raised from plow to the atomic world.
    His wisdom knew no bounds, and always looked a few steps forward!
    As for the current rulers, from Khrushchev to Yeltsin - the Pygmies.
    It’s hard to tell me about Putin - there is yes and no.
    Here is a link to you, as I wrote above: http://slavira.ru/otkrovenie-stalina-ot-24-01-2016g-chast-i/
    Enjoy reading and thinking!
  • roofing hedgehog
    roofing hedgehog April 15 2020 11: 51 New
    0
    И.В. Сталин строил государство в отличии всех последующих недоумков у власти..особенно сейчас..была надежда на Путина, но похоже он уступил прозападным "членам" правительства..вроде и спасают основные отрасли , но а что жрать будем?и главное кто?