Warships. Who shot how?

97

I must say right away that it will be about not so distant times, but about those times when the radar was a maritime maritime poison, and, rather, an additional gadget for babahalshchikov from large and not very calibers. That is, about the times of World War II.

The fact that in that war the plane showed itself in all its glory and completely changed the tactics of battle on land, on water, yes. Undoubtedly. However, at sea until the very end of the war, ships were regularly thrown at each other by steel and cast-iron ingots of various weights and fillings, and, importantly, they fell.



Yes, torpedoes are no less interesting component of that time, but we will talk about them later.

Now, when electronic maps, with an accuracy of 1-2 meters, radars detect anything, computers control the firing, launching missiles and torpedoes, more and more you are wondering: how did they (sailors) do without this before?

After all, they did the same, and how! Glories, Bismarck, Hood, Scharnhorst - a list of ships sunk without significant participation aviationcan go on for quite some time. Drowned, and drowned quite successfully.

Warships. Who shot how?

Moreover, in stories there was a case when one hit of a shell decided the outcome of the whole battle. This is when the Worspite guys hit the Giulio Cesare from 13 miles. And this, excuse me, is 24 kilometers. For a shell - the distance with a capital letter.


Battleship "Warspite"

Of course, to hit a moving target at such a distance with an artillery shell - it looks more like fiction in half with crazy luck. But the fact: they could and fell.

One of the regular readers asked an interesting question: why are the naval battles so well-painted and described, but is it not so detailed and luxurious with the land battles?

As you know, winners often write the annals of battle. The air battle in general is very fleeting, sometimes you read the participant’s memories and understand that everything was so concentrated during the battle, that then you can turn five minutes into battle into an hour of presentation. And this is normal.

Combined arms combat is also a peculiar thing, it is like a mosaic, made up of pieces. Somewhere infantry, somewhere the same artillery (one at the front line, another in the rear), Tanks, Self-propelled guns, each has its own battle.

But the naval battle, as it were, is more leisurely in itself, and there was someone to describe, since there were plenty of eyes at the time, looking at the overall picture of the battle.

But what's the most interesting thing? Indeed, the opportunity to consider naval combat in all its stages and not very hastily. Even the World War II marine consumables - the destroyer - lived much longer in battle than the same tank or plane.

What is difficult to sink a ship?


From the point of view of physics, nothing. You just need to make holes in the hull so that water enters them, and the ship loses buoyancy. Or set it on fire, preferably so that the fire gets to the fuel tanks or gunpowder cellars.

The main thing is to make sure that the shell or torpedo hits the ship’s hull. And here complete miracles begin. Math.

Usually in films, the process of firing a shot is shown from its end. That is, from the moment the projectile and projectile charge are fed into the tower and the “Fire!” Command In fact, the work begins long before this sweet sight of the moment.

And not in the command cabin, but in a completely different place.

Try to hit the enemy?

Then our path does not lie down to the ammunition, but to the very top. Moreover, it will be very high on any ship. KDP, command rangefinder post. The workplace of the strongest stomachs on the ship, because you need to aim the guns with any excitement, and where the KDP is located, can be seen in the photo.


The battleship Fuso. It is worth evaluating the height at which the KDP was located

The command and rangefinder post was a large platform, armored, on a rotating pedestal. So it was necessary, because the KDP had to have a review in all directions. Circular that is. It’s very easy to find the KDP in any photo, the horns of the range finder stuck it out.








Indeed, I’m sitting high, looking far away. I can imagine how it rocked in the event of an unrest at sea ...

On cruisers and destroyers, everything was exactly the same, of course, on a scale. Only there it rocked and threw more mercilessly than on the battleship. Due to size.

Here in this design rotating around its axis were those who really were the eyes and brains of the ship in terms of shooting. The rest are purely executors of orders.

Who was in the KDP?


The main man inside was the senior gunner. The position in different countries was called differently, the essence remained the same. Responsible for shooting data.

Senior Observer Officer and Observers. These are those who scanned the horizon with their eyes, searched for targets, received target designation from the same reconnaissance aircraft, submarines, radio interception services, and so on. But this gang worked through the eyes. The observing officer was responsible for accurately determining the parameters of the target's movement.

Rangefinder (rangefinders) plus vertical and horizontal gunners KDP. These people were subordinate to the senior gunner and, in fact, they aimed guns and shot from them.

And to be precise, he pressed the shutter button, giving a volley, a vertical gunner KDP. At the command of a senior gunner.

There, somewhere below, under the armor of the hull, all these gun crews fussed, which they brought, rolled, loaded, turned to the desired angle horizontally and raised the trunks in a vertical plane according to the data transmitted from the KDP.


But these guns, sitting in the KDP, were aimed. On large ships (battleships), the KDP usually had a stern double, which in which case could replace the main KDP. Or control the aft towers to remove one additional amendment. But we will talk about the amendments a little later.

Somewhat later, radar operators were added to the KDP when radars appeared. This added accuracy, but introduced an additional adjustment to the battle. The KDP was just a tidbit for the enemy artillerymen, for planting a shell in the bridge (or even in the KDP itself) was very useful.

Here, as an example, we can cite the battle at the North Cape, where just in this way, blinding the Scharnhorst, the British turned it into a floating target and without particularly straining, sunk.

Yes, we are now talking not just about a virtual ship, but about a ship that is equipped with a central aiming system according to the KDP. Before World War II (and during it), each tower usually had its own sights. And theoretically, each tower could independently fire on the enemy.

In theory. Because it was the central aiming system that made it possible to forget about the shortcomings when the calculation of each gun independently determined the elevation angle (vertical aiming) and the lead angle (horizontal aiming). In real combat, tower gunners experienced a lot of problems, because often the target was simply poorly visible. The towers were much lower than the KDP. Spray, smoke, pitching, weather conditions - and as a result, the human factor played, that is, each gunner introduced his personal inaccuracy. Although it was very small, but as a result of volley shells scattered over a large area, instead of covering the target closely.

Because the use of the sight KDP has become, if not a panacea, then a very significant help. At the very least, mistakes made during the tip were much easier to track and correct.

When observers discovered the enemy, the entire KDP turned in that direction. This turn was transmitted by repeaters to the guns that repeated it, and the data also went to the central artillery post.

So, we found the enemy, got the preliminary data and it started ... Well, yes, everyone ran in, went on a thunder, the aiming procedure began.

Everyone, in general, knows that the guns should not be pointed at the enemy’s ship, but at a certain hypothetical point, at which it will be after the time it takes for the shells to fly. And then everything will be beautiful from our point of view and completely disgusting from the point of view of the enemy.

At the Central Artillery Post (DAC) there was a mechanical computer for this, which was called the Admiralty dial for fire control, to which all data from the KDP was transmitted.








The main problem that this calculator solved was to determine where the gun barrels should be aimed, so that the shells of a ship moving at a speed of 25 knots would fall into a target moving at a speed of 20 knots in the opposite direction.

The course and speed of the enemy is given by the observing officer, the course and speed of his ship are entered automatically.

But here the fun begins. Amendments In order for the projectile to really fly to where it is needed, in addition to ship speeds and directions, one more thing to consider:

- take into account the height of the guns above the waterline;
- take into account the wear of the trunks after each shot, as it affects the initial velocity of the shells;
- take into account the amendment, which will ensure the reduction of all trunks at one aiming point;
- take into account the direction and strength of the wind;
- take into account a possible change in atmospheric pressure;
- take into account derivation, that is, the deviation of the projectile under the influence of its own rotation;
- take into account the different weight of the shells, the temperature of the charge and the shell.

There is such a thing as “preliminary training”. It consists of two parts: ballistic training and meteorological.

Ballistic training includes:
- calculation of the correction for the wear of the gun barrel;
- determination of temperature in cellars and calculation of corrections for the deviation of the temperature of charges and shells from normal (+ 15C);
- sorting shells by weight;
- coordination of devices and sights.

All these measures are aimed at minimizing gun disruption, when according to one source the average projectile flight paths of shells pass at different ranges.

Accordingly, to minimize the inconsistency of the guns, it is necessary to coordinate sights, to fire shells and charges selected from the same batch from one batch, and to calculate corrections for the wear of the gun barrels.

Meteorological training includes:
- wind;
- deviation of air density from normal.

Thus, on the basis of the data on the preparations, the “Amendment of the day” is formed, which includes:
- correction for the wear of the gun;
- correction for the deviation of the charge temperature from normal;
- correction for the deviation of air density from normal;
- correction for the retreat of the mass of shells.

The day correction is calculated every two hours for different projectile ranges.

So, the target is discovered. The range to the target, its speed and position angle in relation to our ship, the so-called heading angle, are determined.


If you familiarize yourself with our “Textbook of the Deck Commander” about 177 pages published in 1947, then to your surprise you can read that all these parameters were determined by eye. Speed ​​- according to the breaker, depending on the class of the ship, which was also determined visually from the reference book, heading angle using binoculars with a grid.

That's exactly so, isn't it?

And when all this information is ready, it is entered into the “dial” and at the output the device gives only two digits. The first is the specified distance to the enemy, calculated at the elevation angle of the gun. The second is deviation. Both values ​​are transferred to each gun and the calculation induces the gun in accordance with these data.

In the KDP and DAC are the "guns ready" bulbs. When the gun is loaded and ready to fire, the lamp lights up. When all the bulbs light up in the DAC, the operator presses the button of the artillery gong, which sounds in the CDP and at the guns. After that, the vertical gunner of the KDP, which keeps the KDP pointing at the target, presses its trigger.


The shells flew.

Then again the observers come into action, who must determine by the bursts around the enemy’s ship how the shells fell, with a shortage or a flight. Or, if there was a cover, then which one.

It follows the next adjustment, the change of sighting data and again everything is repeated. Until the complete destruction of the enemy or some other events, for example, just the end of the battle or the nightfall.

To be honest, one thing is surprising: as with mechanical calculators, terribly called calculators, instruments for obtaining data such as “binoculars” and “rangefinder”, sailors of two world wars generally managed to get somewhere ...

But the fact - fell ...
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  1. +34
    March 1 2020
    “Bismarck”, “Huud”, “Scharnhorst” - a list of ships sunk without significant participation of aviation

    "Bismarck" can be safely deleted from this list.
    Firstly, the English torpedo bombers managed to damage its steering gear and jam the steering wheels with several torpedo hits. If this had not happened, the fate of the ship would have been different.
    Secondly, after the artillery fire was stopped, torpedoes were fired at the still afloat "Bismarck" from a short distance, everyone hit.
    Thirdly, as the expedition of R. Ballard proved, kingstones were discovered on the battleship. The order to open them came after the artillery fire from the English battleships was stopped.

    Thus, the four British ships that fired at the Bismarck and fired a total of about 2 shells could not sink the German battleship with purely artillery fire.
    1. -11
      March 1 2020
      why did they then open the kingstones? yes because all the same they lost the battle to the nines
      1. +16
        March 1 2020
        Quote: Tlauicol
        why did they then open the kingstones? yes because all the same they lost the battle to the nines

        Yes, they lost, that's why they left, but the "torpedo" from the plane didn't let him do it ... But at the expense of the Kingstones. Well, there is such a tradition in their navy, not to give up their crippled ships to desecrate the enemy and not to allow the enemy flag to rise on them. Look at their history. After all, it is not for nothing that they so appreciated the death of our "Varyag" that they even composed a song that we still sing when "Russia is great, and there is no place to retreat ..."
        1. -4
          March 1 2020
          those. did the ship die? the British destroyed him!
          I do not diminish the courage of the Germans, but even Tirpitz went to the bottom without kingstones ... and even the explosion of aft cellars at 10.36.

          so the British could still
          1. +3
            March 1 2020
            Quote: Tlauicol
            so the British could still

            Could ...
          2. +7
            March 1 2020
            Did the Tirpitz team know about this fight at all?
        2. -1
          March 6 2020
          The song is Austrian, contains nothing but mockery of senseless death. But our sarcasm did not understand. In general, Tsushima begins with "Varyag".
          1. 0
            March 7 2020
            Maybe I read the wrong translation? When did this death in battle cause a desire to mock?
    2. BAI
      +2
      March 1 2020
      But "Hood" had to be turned on.
  2. +11
    March 1 2020
    Glories, Bismarck, Hood, Scharnhorst - the list of ships sunk without significant aviation involvement can be continued for quite some time. Drowned, and drowned quite successfully.
    "Bismarck" still needs to be removed from this list, aviation made a very significant contribution to its sinking ...
    1. +15
      March 1 2020
      Exactly.
      On the other hand, turn on the French "Bretagne". The British sunk it with artillery fire.
      Yes, and for Japanese ships, men probably will be able to supplement the list later.
    2. +9
      March 1 2020
      I totally agree.
      In 17: 40 Sheffield discovered Bismarck and began his pursuit, repeated 15 raid of torpedo bombers on 20: 47 bore fruit, English pilots made two or three battles to the battleship, one of which was decisive, the torpedo hit the stern part of the vessel and damaged steering mechanisms. "Bismarck" lost the ability to maneuver and began to describe the circulation, the team's attempts to restore the ship's controllability were unsuccessful.
      (c) VO for 2011
      There is such a term "golden bullet", and so this torpedo, dropped from an antediluvian bookcase, turned out to be "golden", after that it remained only to finish off the "behemoth".
  3. +11
    March 1 2020
    Many thanks to Roman for his excellent selection of photo materials. hi
    1. +2
      March 1 2020
      So that’s it, here’s just a photo of the burning Adm. Count Spee is somehow off topic. Do not find?
      1. +1
        March 2 2020
        Most likely yes, but I'm so used to this photo that I no longer pay attention to it. smile
  4. +14
    March 1 2020
    Thanks to the author, I remembered ...
    As a schoolboy, I came across a book by Zinovy ​​Pearl, "Tales of Warships", in my opinion, 1956, now it can be found in pdf format. She struck me with its informativeness in terms of the description of the device of the ships.
    In particular, the principles of the artillery of the main caliber and the posts of the central novode were described in good detail and in detail.
    1. +1
      March 1 2020
      Thanks for the tip!
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +8
    March 1 2020
    Speed ​​- according to the breaker, depending on the class of the ship, which was also determined visually from the reference book, heading angle using binoculars with a grid.

    To counteract the determination of speed by a breaker, special painting of ships was used. Where the breakers were already painted, and in addition, on the bow and stern. Yes, at the same time, the silhouette of the ship was painted smaller.


    Yes, and try to recognize the breaker on deforming camouflage.
  7. +7
    March 1 2020
    Well, the main method was still sighting. "By eye" the parameters of the target movement were determined only for the first salvo ... accordingly, the true parameters of the target movement were also calculated. And the "calculators", although they were not electronic, were very accurate.
  8. +1
    March 1 2020
    the most interesting thing is that Bismarck, having lost his rangefinder post after a shootout with a cruiser, immediately forgot how to get into the enemy
    1. +4
      March 1 2020
      Yes, there is such a moment. BUT! In fact, "Bismarck" was doomed after a torpedo in the stern.
      But it was decisive that the torpedo hit the side under the steering compartment in front of the axis of the left rudder. Rudders at this moment were shifted to the port side for evasion maneuvers. The explosion made a large hole in the casing and severely damaged the left connection of the steering axis with the steering machine, so that it could not be disconnected, and both steering wheels were jammed at 12 ° to the left side, and both steering compartments were flooded. People from these compartments were quickly evacuated, and the doors to the steering-proof armored deck were closed. But through the damaged negotiation pipes, water began to flow to the main deck. To pump it, they launched a pump, which soon stopped working as a result of a malfunction. While the repair was being carried out, salt water penetrated the electric motor of the pump and disabled it. Empty tanks on the starboard side in the area of ​​impact were previously flooded to straighten the heel and trim from the damage received on May 24, which increased the size of the flooding and intensified the shock from the explosion. The concussion of the 150 mm armor box, which caused the steering compartment and had a very rigid structure in comparison with the body surrounding it, caused precisely by this hit, led to cracks along the stern. The latter are also attributed to the insufficiently strong hull structure in the stern, built as a separate module, bolted and welded to the rest of the ship.

      Meanwhile, the crew of the battleship were desperately trying to regain control of the ship. The right wheel was disconnected from the steering gear and unlocked, but nothing could be done with the left. Several divers tried to get into the steering compartment, however, due to a large hole, the very strong movement of water in the left steering compartment made any work impossible, and the divers were dragged out of the compartment in complete exhaustion. Shortly afterwards, Lindemann and senior mechanic Lehman discussed possible measures to restore control. Both agreed that the state of the sea does not allow divers to use for outdoor work. The proposal to disconnect jammed rudders with dynamite charges was rejected by Lutens on the pretext that this could damage the screws. However, Lutiens, apparently, was already reconciled with the fate of the ship, since at 21:40 he was glad that the crew would fight to the last shell.

      At this time, the outer compartments of compartment III on the left side were slowly flooded through damage in the main transverse bulkhead between compartments II and III, the cable line and small gaps in the outer skin. Water began to penetrate the corridors of the left rampart, which, along with flooding from the second torpedo hit in compartment VII, caused a roll to the left side. In order to somehow keep the course, the ship had to significantly reduce its speed, and the strong waves instead of the southeast began to bring down the battleship to an unfavorable northwest course, which brought it closer to the Tovey's ships. Lindemann tried to return the "Bismarck" to its previous course by selecting different rotational speeds of the starboard and port propellers. The commands to the mechanics went one after another, and some safety measures were ignored to execute them quickly. The ship managed to turn off the northwest course, but only in order to make another circle, after which strong winds and waves turned the battleship in the same direction. Shortly after midnight, all attempts to restore the steering were abandoned. The emergency party reinforced the bulkhead between the 11th and 111th compartments and repaired the damaged communication pipe.

      The Bismarck was on a roughly northwesterly course at about 7 knots with a slight roll to port. The left rudder was still jammed, and the ship somehow kept on a course set by the wind and excitement with only the propellers. At about 6:00 Lindemann tried to increase the speed to 12 knots, but the ship's course became so unpredictable that the vehicles had to be ordered to stop. Probably, Lindemann did not see much of a difference in whether to drift with the propellers stopped or slowly drag in an undesirable direction, so the order to start the turbines did not follow until about 7:00, when they were started a little ahead, since the mechanics spoke about the undesirability of their long shutdown

      So that with a serviceable KDP, that without it "Bismarck" could not stay on a straight course in order to organize intelligible control of fire. Even after the loss of the KDP at the beginning of the execution, each tower had its own rangefinder post and could fire autonomously. But due to constant yawing along the course due to a malfunction of the steering, firing was IMPOSSIBLE.
      "Bismarck" was destroyed by the "golden" torpedo smile Yes hi
  9. +1
    March 1 2020
    Great informative article! A big plus to the author!
  10. +15
    March 1 2020
    Warships. Who shot how?
    With all the efforts of the author, it’s quite difficult to understand who shot the article.
    In the Central Artillery Post (DAC) there was a mechanical computer for this, which was called the Admiralty fire control dials, to which all data from the KDP was transmitted.
    "Admiralty dials" - this, apparently, is a highly classified device, which is known only to the author, since even in the most special books this device is not found.
    In fact, this mechanical computer is called a calculating and solving device (PSA). This is the brain of the ship’s fire control system (SLA).
    The MSA is an automated system that combines a range of instruments and technical equipment that provides search, detection and recognition of targets, preparation for firing, guidance and solving the problem of hitting a target.
    In the photo 12 and 13 PSA Tipe 94 fire control 140 mm guns of the Japanese battleship Nagato.
    In photo 14 - the device, which in Japanese is called sokutekiban. This is the sighting device with which the sighting post of the same battleship is equipped, designed to track the courses and speed of the target.
    The PSA of the main caliber of this battleship, the Shagekiban Tipe 94, looks a little different.
    1. +18
      March 1 2020
      Since the author has chosen a photo of the PSA of Japanese ships, I will try to clearly explain on their example how they shot. For this, we will use the FMS scheme of the Japanese heavy cruiser Furutaka. It is identical to the LMS of most Japanese ships during the Second World War.

      Circles with numbers are the designation of "the strongest stomach on the ship" - those who prepare the data for shooting.
      Composition: three 6-meter range-finders of type 14, two (main in the bow, auxiliary in the stern) directors of type 94, target tracking device type 92 (sighting device) and computing device type 92.
      Let's start with KDP.
      The officer (1) monitors the target using a 12-cm binocular correction sight (A) and controls the firing of guns; horizontal (2) and vertical (3) gunners monitor the target through 12-cm sighting devices (B and C) and using the control wheels (F) and (E) give the director’s tower the desired angle of rotation (issuing measured bearings T and B) and elevations (limits from -12 to + 45 °); the stabilizer (5), using a 4,5-cm sight (D), using the helm (G) provides correction of the angles of vertical (HV) and horizontal (GN) aiming taking into account the side and keel pitching of the ship; the distance and deviation installer (6) monitors the lateral deviation (Dt) and the additional elevation (Q), which are transmitted from the computing device and processes them using the helms (H) and (J), respectively. Using a steering wheel (H) for tracking the distance, an additional elevation angle (Q) through the differential gear is added to the angle determined by the vertical gunner, corrected by the stabilizer, giving the PUVN transmitted to the towers. Using the helm (J), the lateral deviation is likewise transmitted and added to the bearing set by the horizontal gunner, and after adjustment by the stabilizer (trim and parallax) in the form of a PGN, it is transmitted to the towers.
      Sighting post.
      The operator (1) monitors the course of his ship on a compass (dial A); the operator (2) monitors the bearing change to the target (dial B); a horizontal gunner (3) deploys the device behind the target, following it through a 12-sighting device (C); operator (4) monitors target deviation by inclinometer (D); operator (5) determines the length of the target; (6) monitors the angle of deviation (dial E); (7) monitors the true distance (F); (8) transmits the target speed (TS) and its course (TS) to the computing device; G, H, J, K, L - the dials of the chain, your ship, the difference in distance, component of the target length, component of the horizon of the target; M is a chronometer.
      Well, PSA, which is under the armor.
      (1) fire officer; operator (2) enter the distance and bearing to the target (handles L and K); the operator (3) of the present distance (handle and dial J) and the rate of change of distance (handle and dial H), which adjusts the distance received from the officer (according to operator 8) and its rate of change (along the distance curve L); the operator (4) transmits the future distance value using the handles and dials of the distance correction (G) and (F); the operator (5) sets the initial bearing (B) received from the director (handle and dial E), introduces the correction of the total bearing deviation using the handle and the dial (C), and corrects for the target’s own speed, speed and deflection (both values ​​are received from the target ), wind speed, etc. Using the grip and dial corrections (D); (6) monitors the compass course (card and grip B); (7) monitors the rate of change of the bearing along the curve (K) using the handle and the dial (A); (8) averages the distance (R). obtained from three 6-meter rangefinders, providing data to the distance graph (L) through the officer from the distance-averaging part of the device (M). The computing device transmits the calculated values ​​of the lateral deviation (Dt) and the additional elevation (Q) to the director for differential (depending on the location of the towers) adding these values ​​to the measured angles of the HV and GN. N, O, P - the dials of the target, its own speed and wind speed.
      1. +11
        March 1 2020

        KDP (director) of the Mk38 type battleships of the North Caroline class.
        1. +12
          March 1 2020

          This is what the combat work on the KDP looked like.
          1. +3
            March 1 2020
            Well, Vic Nikolaitch, you give! Sumptuously! good Did you visit Mikasa during your trips to Japan? I climbed the "Aurora", thank God, before its "restoration". hi
            1. +4
              March 1 2020
              No, I haven’t been. Nevertheless, Japan from north to south is almost 3000 km, so even with their transport you won’t be in time everywhere.
              1. +3
                March 1 2020
                Sorry, I thought you might have your own pictures of the ship. request
                1. +4
                  March 1 2020
                  That’s what’s not, that’s not. I have no photos from Japanese business trips at all. The era of digital cameras had not yet arrived.
                2. +4
                  March 1 2020
                  And what specifically interests you on Mikasa?
                  1. +3
                    March 1 2020
                    Specifically, everything that does not fall into periodicals, right down to latrine.
                    1. +1
                      March 1 2020
                      right up to the latrine.
                      Will the Admiral latrine suit you?
                      1. +3
                        March 1 2020
                        The main thing is that he arrange the admiral. laughing
                    2. +8
                      March 1 2020

                      General view
                      In total, I have more than 300 photos.
                      I'll post some
                      1. +7
                        March 1 2020




                        Mikasa's Nasal Barbet
                      2. +5
                        March 1 2020


                        Officer Corridor:


                        Cabin company


                      3. +4
                        March 1 2020
                        Captain's cabins



                      4. +4
                        March 1 2020
                        Captain Latrine

                        Canteen mess


                        Admiral's Feed Salon


                      5. +5
                        March 1 2020
                        Aft saloon and balcony








                        Deck boards with traces of Russian shells

                      6. +3
                        March 1 2020
                        Museum in the battery deck (casemate of 6 guns)



                        Electromechanical scheme Tsushima


                        Tsushima trophies


                        Captain's tunic
                      7. +3
                        March 1 2020
                        In contrast to the admirer of Rozhdestvensky, who was seated in the conning tower, the admirer of Togo stood on the open bridge the whole battle



                        Plates on the bridge with the names - who stood where in Tsushima



                        Wheelhouse
                      8. +3
                        March 1 2020
                        Navigation cabin


                        Chassis and upper bridge ladder


                        Conning tower


                      9. +4
                        March 1 2020


                        Upper deck with 75mm anti-mine guns


                        The plate is where the captured Nebogatov entered the ship


                        A genuine diorama in a casemate


                        Genuine deck area
                      10. +4
                        March 1 2020
                        Radio room


                        Shield from the Russian cruiser "Bayan"




                        White shell - with Yamato


                        Drinks at the Museum Store


                        Well, something like that.
                      11. +5
                        March 1 2020
                        Well, my friend, no words, pleased! Thank you very much! I had never seen anything like it before, only the general view of the ship. And the electromechanical circuit of Tsushima just hit on the spot. good
                      12. +1
                        March 2 2020
                        Well, my friend, no words, pleased! Thank you very much! I haven’t seen anything like it before, only the general view of the ship
                        So go to the museum website https://www.kinenkan-mikasa.or.jp/en/index.html and look at your health.
                      13. +2
                        March 2 2020
                        So you have to go to the site, and before that, look for the address, and then everything at once and with "home delivery". smile
                      14. +5
                        March 2 2020
                        All photos are my own. Made personally in the museum, but not taken from some site)))
                      15. +1
                        March 2 2020
                        This is all the more valuable, therefore, he asked in the hope of seeing what is not on the network. I saw, thank you. )))
                      16. -1
                        March 2 2020
                        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                        Admiral's Feed Salon

                        Cool. The admiral could drive geese in the evening. belay
                      17. 0
                        March 1 2020
                        Good day hi Forgive me not for the topic, your last name is familiar, you happen to be from the middle Don?
          2. +4
            March 1 2020

            Main computing post of the battleship "Bismarck"

            Observation post for the fall of shells "Bismarck"
            To control the fire of the main and medium calibers, a system of the 1935 model was used, similar to that installed on battleships of the "Scharnhorst" type and heavy cruisers of the "Admiral Hipper" type. It consisted of three command and rangefinder posts (KDP) for fire control for surface targets, bow and stern computing posts and tower rangefinders. The first control tower occupied the rear half of the conning tower at the level of the navigating bridge, the second was located on the front tower of an unlikely superstructure, the third - on the aft conning tower. The main post was on a tower-like superstructure - it was the highest located (31 m above sea level), and according to the combat schedule, there was a senior artillery officer. The front post was equipped with a stereoscopic rangefinder with a base of 7 m, the rest - with a 10,5-m rangefinder.

            All posts were stabilized in three planes (on "Scharnhorst" and "Gneisenau" - only in two) using gyroscopes, the resulting misalignments were compensated for by vertical and horizontal gunners. Each of the two bow posts was equipped with three ZG (Zielgerat) C / 38S sighting systems with domed periscopes on armored roofs. One sight was placed in the center plane, the other two - on the starboard and port side. The rear post was equipped with only two visors located on the side. The field of view of optical instruments was quite small - no more than 15 °.

            Data on the distance (calculated by the average filed of all rangefinders or taken readings of the radar), the direction to the target and its heading angle were reported to the main computing station located on the middle platform under the armored deck in compartment XV.


            A similar post at the back in compartment VII served as a reserve and had the same equipment, with the exception of a computer for firing at coastal targets. Devices of the nasal post allowed to make calculations separately for the lower and upper KDP. which, if desired, made it possible to conduct separate fire for different purposes. The equipment of the posts included all the necessary calculators for controlling the firing of both the main caliber and the medium artillery. Geometric calculator gave the distance, course and speed of the target. The ballistic computer used this data plus the distance and course of its ship, barrel wear, wind, etc. to determine the angles of guidance and elevation of the guns. Further, amendments were made for the longitudinal and transverse rolling of the ship. The vertical guidance of the guns could be connected to the remote control system associated with the SUAO. In rooms adjacent to the computing stations were switchboards, amplifiers and other fire control equipment. To adjust the shooting data, taking into account the pitching, there were two rooms with gyroscopes: the front one was located on the left side on the lower platform in compartment XV, the rear - on the right side on the middle platform in compartment VIII.
      2. +3
        March 1 2020
        V. N, thanks for your informational additions.
        Unfortunately, we have not enough serious thoughtful authors and therefore V.N.
    2. +2
      March 1 2020
      Again, some kind of clown minus quietly. How can I explain my minuscup?
      1. +2
        March 1 2020
        Quote: Undecim
        Again, some kind of clown minus quietly. How can I explain my minuscup?

        What for!!!? Now VikNik, you’ll get a ban too !!! They will come up with a reason and slap! There is nothing to “lift the tail”, “it is necessary to pull the tail loyally left and right, left and right” !!!!
        Sincerely, the additions are really beautiful and the main thing in the topic !!!
  11. +1
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Comrade
    "Bismarck" from this list can be safely deleted

    And also one of the reasons, moreover, the fundamental, banal, ammunition was spent and the failure of most of the universal guns with calculations, which led to the impossibility of effective air defense
  12. +8
    March 1 2020
    A small addition: on some ships, after pressing the trigger, the shells did not fly immediately, but when the ship began to roll to zero (to compensate for pitching).
  13. +3
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Comrade
    Thirdly, as the expedition of R. Ballard proved, kingstones were discovered on the battleship. The order to open them came after the artillery fire from the English battleships was stopped.

    Can I have photos of open kingstones? :)

    From the interrogation of Gerhard Yunak it is known that Hans Oels gave the order to blow up the water intakes of the condensers, but there is no direct evidence that this was done. On the contrary, there are testimonies of J. Stac, who was in the CPU, which says that according to the light panel there were no problems with the compartment of the ship in the engine rooms and boiler rooms.
  14. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Tlauicol
    the most interesting thing is that Bismarck, having lost his rangefinder post after a shootout with a cruiser, immediately forgot how to get into the enemy

    After the loss of the main PUAO, there were two more left, but the problem was that the Firing Machine does not work correctly at variable courses and it is very difficult to predict the location of the enemy.
    1. 0
      March 1 2020
      The change of course did not interfere with the British.
    2. 0
      March 1 2020
      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
      The firing machine does not work correctly at variable courses and it is very difficult to predict the location of the enemy.

      "Bismarck" at 9:10 transferred fire control of the aft towers to the aft artillery post under the command of the fourth artillery officer Lieutenant-Commander Burkhardafon Müllenheim-Rechbsrga (Baron von Müllenheim-Rechberg was about what happened on the ship in the last battle). He chose as a target located about 11 meters on the port side, "King George V", which was clearly visible. "Rodney" at this time was, apparently, outside the firing angle of the aft towers, especially since just at this time "Bismarck" turned its nose to the west. All the turns of the German ship in battle were the result of its inability to keep a straight course, and not the thoughtful actions of its commander. Bismarck fired four fruitless salvoes from the aft turrets, until at 000:4 a 9mm round hit the rotating part of the aft control tower, knocking it out. According to British data, the distance to the "King George V" at that moment was 13 m. The aft towers switched to fire under local control.

      From the entire description of the battle it is clear that initially the Bismarck had problems with control and keeping on the course, which negatively affected the overall control of fire. And this is a consequence of a torpedo hit in the stern and rudder failure.
  15. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: seacap
    And also one of the reasons, moreover, the fundamental, corny, ammunition is used up

    An ancient legend that is easily refuted.
  16. +3
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Tlauicol
    The change of course did not interfere with the British.

    Interfered. otherwise, where would such an expense of main battery shells come from, which gave rise to the legend of the incredible survivability of the Bismarck.
    1. +2
      March 1 2020
      During the battle "Rodney" fired 380 406-mm and 716 152-mm shells, "King George V" - 339 356-mm and 660 133-mm, heavy cruisers "Dorsetshire" and "Norfolk" 254 and 527 203-mm, respectively shells.
    2. +1
      March 1 2020
      They stably fell, they were more smoke and water columns interfered. Bismarck could not do anything without a rangefinder
  17. -4
    March 1 2020
    one child tells other children.
  18. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Rurikovich
    ZG (Zielgerat) C / 38S

    Here at S.P. / A.M. (I don’t know who wrote this section) mistake: the central aiming sight was called Zielgeber.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      March 1 2020
      Macsen_Wledig Here at S.P. / A.M. (I don’t know who wrote this section) mistake: the central aiming sight was called Zielgeber.
      Information taken from the reference resource for the German fleet. At the end of the list of references
      http://seawarpeace.ru/deutsch/schlachtschiff/01_main/30_bismark.html
  19. +3
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Seeker
    one child tells other children.

    Live a century - study a century, you’ll die a fool anyway ... (c) :))))
  20. +1
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Tlauicol
    They stably fell, they were more smoke and water columns interfered.

    This is when the British came closer ...

    Quote: Tlauicol
    Bismarck could not do anything without a rangefinder

    Absolutely nothing, "Bismarck" ceased to be able after the bow (when hitting the conning tower) and stern (the dome of the rangefinder and the heads of both sighting devices) were disabled ...
    Until that moment, the Cardinal controlled the fire of the secondary battery, and Baron Müllenheim-Rechberg was quite successful in shooting at KD5.
    After the failure of the main PUAO in theory, it was possible to continue to control fire from the middle towers of the PMK, but there are no sources confirming this fact.
    In addition, the towers of the Civil Code did not survive the PUAO at all for a short time to talk about effective fire on local governments ...
    1. 0
      March 1 2020
      the fact is that the British deduced, one after another, the PUAO getting into Bismarck as in a dash. Is it just that he was losing them and artillery? But the German did not fall at all after the failure of the main rangefinder post. Well, he shot into the white light until the guns were knocked out, but what's the point?
  21. +3
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Tlauicol
    But the German did not fall at all after the failure of the main rangefinder post. Well, he shot into the white light until the guns were knocked out, but what's the point?

    So before the withdrawal of the main PUAO "Bismarck" did not get anywhere: one effective cover (about 0853) of "Rodney" and a splinter that flew into PUAZO - that's all ...
    1. +1
      March 1 2020
      But a few days earlier, Huood sank, and covered the Prince of Wales.
      1. +2
        March 1 2020
        As far as I remember, Welsh also covered Bismarck from the third volley. Made a hole. Fuel leaked. What negatively affected the entire operation of the Germans
  22. 0
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    But a few days earlier, Huood sank, and covered the Prince of Wales.

    So in the battle on May 24 on the ship, everything involved for the needs of the SUAO functioned properly ...
    That is the difference.
  23. 0
    March 1 2020
    Quote: Rurikovich
    http://seawarpeace.ru/deutsch/schlachtschiff/01_main/30_bismark.html

    Quote from Malov A. A., Patyanin S. V. - Battleships "Bismarck" and "Tirpitz". Yauza / Arsenal Collection., M. 2005.
    Or its reprints of 2008/2013 ...
  24. -1
    March 1 2020
    And let me curiosity with an enlightened society: maybe at least someone knows exactly how the shooting was carried out on the pitch from sea waves and rolls from the return of their own guns? Here in one of the quotes it says
    Further, amendments were made for the longitudinal and transverse rolling of the ship. ..
    There were two rooms with gyroscopes to adjust the shooting data taking into account the pitching.

    The question itself is exactly how the firing with the help of gyroscopes was made? And the second question: when exactly did gyroscopes start to be used for shooting during pitching? From what year and on which ship were gyroscopes used for shooting for the first time? And on what Russian ships were they delivered for the first time?
    1. 0
      March 2 2020
      There was information from books that such devices were installed on the "noviks" EM already in WWI. I have not seen any documents.
  25. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: geniy
    And let me curiosity with an enlightened society: maybe at least someone knows exactly how the shooting was carried out on the pitch from sea waves and rolls from the return of their own guns?

    With the help of a vertical gyro, which closed the combat chain when the roll passed through "zero".

    Quote: geniy
    And on what Russian ships were they delivered for the first time?

    On the Russians, no gyroverticals were used, and the first Soviet vertical gyro "Shar" (honestly poked at "Sperry") was installed in the late 20s - early 30s on the Parizhanka, Oktyabrina as part of the renewed PUS. The original Sperry vertical gyro was installed on the "Krasny Kavkaz".
    1. -1
      March 1 2020
      With the help of a vertical gyro, which closed the combat chain when the roll passed through "zero".

      So you want to say that not a single gunner pressed the shooting button, but everything happened automatically.
      But who and who pressed the shooting button when passing the zero roll when there were no gyro-verticals?
      And if you named Soviet ships, then when did the gyro-verticals appear on the first foreign ships? And which ones?
      And by the way: if you think that before the revolution, Russian ships fired without gyro-verticals, then how many times increased the accuracy of shooting with their use? When were experiments conducted comparing the two methods of firing?
    2. 0
      March 2 2020
      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
      On the Russians, no gyroverticals were used, and the first Soviet vertical gyro "Shar" (honestly poked at "Sperry") was installed in the late 20s - early 30s on the Parizhanka, Oktyabrina as part of the renewed PUS.

      With "Sperry" not everything is so simple - ours actively officially cooperated with this company in the production of domestic gyroscopes. So don't honestly tyrated, reproduced with manufacturer's technical assistance. smile
      The Sperry company was definitely on the list of foreign contracts in the early 30s ... although whoever was there - the list reads as "a list of industry leaders in the world industry."
  26. BAI
    +2
    March 1 2020
    This is when the Worspite guys hit the Giulio Cesare from 13 miles. And this, excuse me, is 24 kilometers. For a shell - the distance with a capital letter.

    The element of chance has not been canceled.
    1. +2
      March 1 2020
      The element of chance has not been canceled.

      randomness - an unexplained pattern.
      The gunners have solid math. We had a starlier in our regiment, I shot very accurately, I never parted with manuals for firing from guns. Starley was appointed commander of the artillery division, bypassing the honored majors.
      In urban battles, when a slip of several meters leveled everything, he managed to precisely lay mines and shells on the militants. Some could not get into the stadium (they tried at night to destroy the nomadic mortar that shot from the stadium), but he .... well done.
      Sailors are much more complicated, but nevertheless, mathematics rules.
  27. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: geniy
    So you want to say that not a single gunner pressed the shooting button, but everything happened automatically.

    The "button" (actually a pedal) was pressed by the officer who controlled the fire from the main PUAO, and then everything happened automatically.

    Unfortunately I can’t answer your other questions, since the history of the development of the SUAO on a global scale is all of my interests.
    1. -1
      March 1 2020
      "Button" (actually a pedal) Yes, even if you can call it a lever or a toggle switch - it does not change the essence of the issue. Therefore, I ask the question again.
      "pressed the officer who controlled the fire from the main PUAO, and then everything happened automatically.

      What exactly happened automatically? That is, the officer gave the order to open fire, but did he coordinate this moment with the ship's roll? And if this was not done by an officer - then who exactly (or what - what device) before the Second World War? And how exactly was the roll angle tracked when shooting up to the "Paris Commune" and the October Revolution. "
      And explain the same question for medium-caliber guns - how did SK artillerymen manage to aim and shoot at a roll? How did they track the roll angle?
  28. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: glory1974
    Sailors are much more complicated, but nevertheless, mathematics rules.

    Mathematics undoubtedly rules, but no one canceled the scattering ellipse and 5-6% of hits per 100 cables - this is the "level - god" for the officer who controls the fire.
  29. +2
    March 1 2020
    Quote: geniy
    What exactly happened automatically?

    When the roll passed through "zero", the firing chain was closed and a shot was fired.

    Quote: geniy
    That is, the officer gave the order to open fire, but did he coordinate this moment with the roll of the ship?

    No ... I didn't agree. The moment of the volley was "coordinated" by the vertical gyro.

    Quote: geniy
    And if this was not done by an officer by itself, then who exactly (or what - what device) before the Second World War?

    The gyro vertical ...

    Quote: geniy
    And how exactly was the roll angle tracked when shooting up to the "Paris Commune" and the October Revolution. "

    The PUS included the "Shar" gyro-vertical.

    Quote: geniy
    And explain the same question for medium-caliber guns - how did SK artillerymen manage to aim and shoot at a roll? How did they track the roll angle?

    On the "post-Washington" ships, the PUS PMK was a somewhat simplified version of the GK PUS and were controlled in a similar way, for some (the Germans, for example) the PMK PUS were integrated into the GK PUS.
    1. -3
      March 1 2020
      Macsen_Wledig Maxim - can you read Russian? And at the same time understand the essence of the questions asked? N
      Well, well, successfully declined to answer when the first ships with a gyro vertical appeared.
      But then this question automatically passes to the ships created before the Revolution! So, if you claim that the gyro-vertical on ships appeared only AFTER the revolution, then how was shooting on an even keel BEFORE REVOLUTION? Who specifically and how did they track the moment the ship was in a position on an even keel? And was it transmitted only to the towers of the main caliber or to the medium caliber too?
  30. -1
    March 2 2020
    In the eighties, the arithmetic unit for torpedo shooting was still alive at TOVVMU, so we solved problems faster and more accurately on the tablet (of course, for ideal conditions, without corrections). They said that these tablets came to us to the North together with land-landing ships, and then the sailors thought for a long time - what for is a miracle. It seems like before, similar problems were solved on the map.
  31. +2
    March 2 2020
    "If you read our" Manual of the deck gunner "about 177 pages, published in 1947" - then the article goes to the furnace ... The author compares the ass with a finger. Another bottom ...
  32. +1
    March 2 2020
    Quote: geniy
    Macsen_Wledig Maxim - can you read Russian? And at the same time understand the essence of the questions asked? N
    Well, well, successfully declined to answer when the first ships with a gyro vertical appeared.

    Kamrad, as I understand it, YOU have problems with the Russian language and understand what is written.
    I clearly wrote
    Quote: Macsen_Wledig
    Unfortunately I can’t answer your other questions, since the history of the development of the SUAO on a global scale is all of my interests.
    1. 0
      March 4 2020
      "Outside the circle of my interests" this is how Macsen_Wledig Maxim tried to get off the topic - well, just like the second lieutenant from "White Sun of the Desert" - "Yes, his grenades are of the wrong system." The essence of the question is that the Soviet battleships Oktyabrina and Parizhanka, built before the revolution, initially used completely different firing devices and naturally showed different accuracy. And it is natural that after the installation of new devices, tests should have been carried out to compare the accuracy of what was before with the installed new ones. But the author of that article apparently wanted to hide the results of these tests, and deceive the whole people by this failure to mention. This is probably still highly classified. But the situation is exactly the same in all other fleets of the world - for some reason it is hidden from everyone interested in ship history when and on which ships the devices of the new system first appeared and how much better they were than the old ones. That is why Macsen_Wledig Maxim cannot answer which ships in the world were the first to receive new devices. And not only he alone will not be able to - but in general none of you (and me too), although this topic is just in the circle of my interests) - will not be able to answer this question. This reminds of an anecdote: two hundred years ago, when no one knew why the northern lights happened, the teacher, in order to convict the student that he had not learned a lesson, asked him about the northern lights. The student immediately began to bleat what I said I taught, but forgot. The teacher exclaimed: "Oh my God, only one person in the world knew such northern lights, and he forgot!" This is how I also want to exclaim: "Oh my God - one and only person in the world could tell what ships in the world received devices of the gyro-vertical system - but even that one is outside the sphere of his interests." I will explain what the problem is. The ships were always rolling. But no one knows the values ​​of the pitching angles of ships. I would like to take the red-hot tongs and kindly ask every history lover: what is the magnitude of the pitching angles of ships on sea waves? For example, in the Tsushima battle, the waves were from 5-7 points. But even in calm weather, Admiral Makarov called the minimum pitching 3 degrees of the roll angle. And the Cruiser Aurora experienced rolling up to 40 degrees of roll during a storm.
      But besides pitching from excitement, the ships actually heel even just during turns. The same Admiral Makarov called the roll value at a moderate speed of 8 degrees, although I know that at high speed the roll of some ships is up to 13 degrees. However, in addition to these two factors, there is also a third. The fact is that if the ship’s guns are deployed on one side, then a significant roll arises from their recoil when fired. Its magnitude depends, of course, on the caliber of the guns and on their number. So - at different points in time, all these three factors can either add up or be subtracted from each other, and the angle of heel at each moment in time can be very different and unpredictable.
      But we are interested in - how did the naval artillerymen aim at such a roll before the gyrovertical? And this is a question for all forum participants - what do you know about this? Personally, I’m sure that none of you know or understand anything, and I ask this question only to visually show the abyss of your ignorance, and to arouse at least a few people’s curiosity to this question.
      So, how did they aim? Here it must be clarified that the angle of view of the sight was only 7 degrees. And this is common, and if you take from the center of the sight - then to the side - only 3,5 degrees. This means that with a roll of just over 3,5 degrees, the gunner did not see the enemy ship at all. And if any of you knew physics and remembered the essence of harmonic oscillations, then the oscillating body - the ship, as it were, freezes in the extreme positions of maximum roll and then rapidly slips through the neutral position. That is, the gunner, looking into the sight, alternately sees the sky, then the water at the side of the ship, and the target quickly slips through him. And I ask you - how did they aim in such conditions before the advent of gyro-verticals? And moreover, Macsen_Wledig Maxim kept silent that in addition to battleships and large cruisers, there are also destroyers that also shoot and their pitching is stronger, but there were no gyro-verticals.
  33. +1
    March 2 2020
    Quote: alsoclean
    As far as I remember, Welsh also covered Bismarck from the third volley. Made a hole. Fuel leaked. What negatively affected the entire operation of the Germans

    Sixth salvo at 0556 ...
    The sequence of hits is not known for certain.
  34. +1
    March 2 2020
    Quote: Alexey RA
    In the list of foreign contracts in the early 30s, the Sperry company was definitely ...

    Therefore, I wrote "honestly poked": "Ball" was our copy of the "Sperry" gyro-vertical. :)
  35. 0
    March 10 2020
    Glories, Bismarck, Hood, Scharnhorst - a list of ships sunk without significant aviation involvement
    The author of the article forgot a large list of surface ships (and of course battleships) discovered by aviation !!! Who cares who drowned battleships and how ???
    The laws of war at sea are surprisingly reminiscent of the laws of biology - and they say the following: "Everything gigantic does not tolerate change and is extremely vulnerable from the outside, despite its apparent power ..."
    Battleships like mammoths - were huge but quickly died out due to the fact that the battle at sea itself changed ...
    1. 0
      March 10 2020
      Who cares who drowned battleships and how ??? If early detection of an attack group often changed the entire course of the operation and sometimes completely canceled the original plans .. Why do we need super expensive weapons that can’t accomplish combat missions ???
      Regarding battleships, there is still no definite answer - the construction of these ships by land empires was a real need for them, or was it just a grandiose historical example of throwing millions into the pipe ???

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