Three reasons why the United States does not dare to deploy Patriot on the Syrian border


Turkey’s defense minister, Hulusi Akar, said the United States could supply the Republic with Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) in support of Ankara’s opposition to the Syrian army and Russian air forces. The Pentagon, in turn, confirmed the receipt of such a request, but clarified that no decision has yet been made on it.


The very deployment of the Patriot air defense system by the Americans on the Syrian border seems to be a very controversial step.

Firstly, it has at least some practical meaning if, in parallel with the deployment of air defense systems over Idlib, a no-fly zone is announced. Neither the Turks nor the Americans will take such an adventure, because this regime will imply the destruction of any aircraft located in closed airspace, including Aviation Russian Aerospace Forces.

Secondly, for the first time, Russian planes will be able to get into the coverage area of ​​the American Patriot air defense system, and will have a unique chance to make a radar portrait of the complex. The Pentagon is unlikely to allow such a scenario. Indeed, despite all the bravado (and, by the way, unofficial) statements that the US F-400 and F-22 fighters observed the calculations of our S-35s in Syria, the US Air Force “invisibility” never entered the detection zone neither the S-400 air defense radar nor the S-300 airborne SAR radar.

Finally, the American military should be at the command post at the control desk, since there are no specialists in Turkey to service and manage this type of air defense system. So the US military is at risk of being hit by a Russian VKS in the event of a hypothetical military clash. By the way, Ankara’s request is about placing Patriot, and not about selling.

Of course, there is little chance that the Pentagon will decide to deploy air defense systems on the Syrian border in order to support a pretty confused ally and sow additional seeds of contention in relations between Moscow and Ankara, but then we return to point 1. On the other hand, the complexes can be exponentially deployed, but not brought into combat mode. We observe something similar with the S-300 air defense system, which has been handed over to the Syrians for 1,5 years already, but never showed themselves.
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  1. 1976AG 21 February 2020 21: 39 New
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    But most importantly, the Turks understand the futility of the S-400 against the Russian Air Force.
    1. kit88 21 February 2020 21: 48 New
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      Perhaps Patriot SAMs are also useless against the Russian Air Force
      1. Cyrus 22 February 2020 06: 42 New
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        nobody has tested this yet in practice, which means your statement is unfounded.
        1. Yves762 22 February 2020 12: 09 New
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          The converse was not checked either ... repeat
        2. 1976AG 23 February 2020 18: 39 New
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          Quote: Cyrus
          nobody has tested this yet in practice, which means your statement is unfounded.

          Of course, they simply requested a Patriot. They are so irrational ...
    2. ficus2003 21 February 2020 23: 07 New
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      It’s just that they still can’t use them, the Turkish military is being trained.
      1. Range 22 February 2020 00: 44 New
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        This is not for you personally. ficus2003 - it's just an aphorism "It's easy to consider yourself a strategist after seeing a fight from the side.".
    3. Bongo 22 February 2020 02: 18 New
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      Three reasons why the United States does not dare to deploy Patriot on the Syrian border

      Apparently the author is "far from the topic." Patriot air defense systems have long been deployed in the border area with the SAR.

      Layout

      Google Earth satellite image: Patriot air defense system position in the vicinity of Incirlik airbase
      1. Igar 22 February 2020 08: 30 New
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        Far not the author. It’s you who do not follow the news well, but as facts, demonstrate pictures 5 years ago. In the fall of 2015, the American Patriot air defense systems were withdrawn from Turkey: https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/2189745
        1. zyablik.olga 22 February 2020 08: 37 New
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          Quote: IGAR
          Far not the author. It’s you who do not follow the news well, but as facts, you show pictures 5 years ago. In the fall of 2015, the Patriot air defense systems were withdrawn from Turkey

          They are there, you can independently look at satellite images. Coordinates are indicated.
          1. Igar 22 February 2020 08: 58 New
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            I do not know what is there, but 5 years ago, according to information from the Americans themselves, the complexes were withdrawn from the territory of Turkey. The opponent above claims that the SAMs are already deployed on the Syrian border. Then the logical question is: if they are there, to hell Turkey asks them to deploy?
            1. Bongo 22 February 2020 11: 16 New
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              Quote: IGAR
              I don’t know what is there

              This is not a plus for you that you do not know. Below is a snapshot of the same position in 2019.

              Quote: IGAR
              In the fall of 2015, the Patriot air defense systems were withdrawn from the territory of Turkey: https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/2189745

              No more reliable sources?
              1. Igar 22 February 2020 11: 51 New
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                More reliable than the Turkish Foreign Ministry? Are you hinting at yourself? Believe me more than the official statement of the agency of the country where the events take place? By the way, you did not respond to my question. I repeat: if the Patriot is already located on the Syrian border (according to your statement), why did Ankara ask the United States to place them?
                1. Bongo 22 February 2020 12: 12 New
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                  Quote: IGAR
                  More reliable than the Turkish Foreign Ministry? Are you hinting at yourself?

                  I do not hint, I speak in plain text - you are not well informed.
                  Quote: IGAR
                  if the Patriot is already located on the Syrian border (according to your statement), why did Ankara request the United States to place them?

                  Air defense never happens much, or do you disagree?
                  By the way, my proposal remains valid:
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Bet on a bottle of any drink, what does Patriot have in Turkey, or at least were in 2019?
                  1. Igar 22 February 2020 12: 19 New
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                    On the border with Syria, air defense systems of this class are not deployed. It is a fact. You can prove the opposite - prove it. As for the Incirlik base itself, even if you imagine that the Patriots are there, they do not control Syrian airspace. Too far, and not in this their task would be. It follows that there is no contradiction in the note.
                    1. Bongo 22 February 2020 12: 26 New
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                      Quote: IGAR
                      On the border with Syria, air defense systems of this class are not deployed. It is a fact. You can prove the opposite - prove it.

                      Satellite image to help you ...
                      Quote: IGAR
                      As for the Incirlik base itself, even if you imagine that the Patriots are there, they do not control Syrian airspace.
                      Wow, you are still after this:
                      Quote: IGAR
                      In the fall of 2015, the Patriot air defense systems were withdrawn from Turkey
                      recognized that the SAM "Patriot" in Turkey is still there.
                      Transfer them anywhere in Turkey is not long. Control or not, but the radio systems of our aircraft operating in the ATS in the border areas with Turkey regularly record the radiation of Patriot air defense radars.
                      Quote: IGAR
                      It follows that there is no contradiction in the note.

                      If you think so, I won’t argue ... wink
                      1. Igar 22 February 2020 12: 33 New
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                        Satellite image to help you ...

                        You have the Incirlik on the picture. This is not a Syrian border.

                        ... recognized that the Patriot air defense system still exists in Turkey.

                        I did not admit. I just pointed out that even if these complexes are located at Incirlik, this does not change anything.

                        Transfer them anywhere in Turkey is not long.

                        If the air defense system is guarded by the air force base, no one will throw it anywhere.

                        The radio systems of our aircraft operating in the ATS in the border areas with Turkey regularly record the radiation of Patriot air defense radars.

                        Again from the ceiling or will there be docks?
                      2. Bongo 22 February 2020 12: 42 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        You have the Incirlik on the picture. This is not a Syrian border.

                        And what is the distance to the Syrian border?
                        Quote: IGAR
                        I did not admit.

                        That is, will you still say that there are no long-range American-made air defense systems in Turkey?
                        Quote: IGAR
                        If the air defense system is guarded by the air force base, no one will throw it anywhere.

                        You think so ...
                        Quote: IGAR
                        Again from the ceiling or will there be docks?

                        Are you able to refute this?
                      3. Igar 22 February 2020 12: 57 New
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                        And what is the distance to the Syrian border?

                        You have special cards. Go for it

                        That is, you will continue to claim that there are no long-range American-made air defense systems in Turkey?

                        Refresh the note above. It's about the Syrian border, not about Turkey as a whole.

                        Are you able to refute this?

                        Refute what you have not proven? Cool joke. Another joke?
                      4. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 02 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        You have special cards. Go for it

                        I already know, and you?
                        Quote: IGAR
                        Refresh the note above. It's about the Syrian border, not about Turkey as a whole.

                        Will the air defense systems be deployed not in Turkey, but directly in Syria?
                        Quote: IGAR
                        Refute what you have not proven?

                        Prove the obvious things? Let's all decide whether the Patriot SAMs are deployed in Turkey or not? You have denied it, have you?
                      5. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 05 New
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                        In my opinion, someone is starting to dodge answers. If there is no evidence of the deployment of air defense systems near the Syrian border, then the dispute is considered closed due to your incompetence.
                      6. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 08 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        In my opinion, someone is starting to dodge answers.

                        And in my opinion, someone does not want to admit their lack of information and when preparing a publication is extremely careless in the process of collecting and processing material.
                        Quote: IGAR
                        If there is no evidence of the deployment of air defense systems near the Syrian border, then the dispute is considered closed due to your incompetence.

                        About our competence, judge our readers ... hi
                      7. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 18 New
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                        And in my opinion, someone does not want to admit their lack of awareness in the preparation of the publication

                        I am NOT interested in whether there are long-range air defense systems away from the Syrian border. Suppose that at least 20 divisions are deployed in Turkey - in the north, east or west of the country. It does not matter. The heading makes it clear which area is in question - the Syrian border. There is NO word in the publication about the Incirlik base, because it will not be able to control the Idlib zone from its territory. The article DOES NOT say a word about other areas of Turkey, the article does not generalize. It all comes down to a specific locality. If you have nothing to answer on the merits of the material, please do not distract me with your meaningless chatter.
                      8. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 19 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        If you have nothing to answer on the merits of the material, please do not distract me with your meaningless chatter.

                        It is strong! good
                      9. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 22 New
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                        Apparently, in the short term, American long-range SAMs in Turkey will remain only in the area of ​​the strategically important Incirlik American air base.

                        From your article. And you rub something on me. There are no Patriot air defense systems on the Syrian border.
                      10. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 29 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        From your article. And you rub something on me. There are no Patriot air defense systems on the Syrian border.

                        Glad you found it possible to refer to my article. But unlike the ancient Nike Hercules, the Patriot complex is mobile and can be transferred to any part of Turkey in a matter of hours.
                        I don’t know exactly how many Patriots are in Turkey and where they are. But acquaintances from Khurba who were on a business trip to the SAR claim that they regularly recorded radar radiation, and I am inclined to believe them. As for the "rubbing", are you sure that this is how the discussion should be held?
                      11. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 40 New
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                        In the area of ​​the city of Gaziantep were just American air defense systems. You write about it yourself. In 2015, Washington took them out. This is evidenced by official sources in Turkey.

                        ... the Patriot complex is mobile and can be transferred to any part of Turkey in a matter of hours.

                        Claiming “can not” is unreasonable. Tu-160 can also be based in Hmeimim. Can they? Yes, the strip allows. But are they there? No. That's all. Fortune-telling on coffee grounds is superfluous. But if the Turks are asking for Americans, then it’s worthless near the borders of Syria. This is primitive logic.

                        ... regularly recorded radar radiation ...

                        That is, in your opinion, the radiation of some radars indicates the deployment of the Patriot air defense system near the Syrian border? Great logic! Axiom, I would say!
                      12. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 48 New
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                        Unfortunately I do not know your name, but since such a lively discussion arose between us, I would like to know how to contact you.
                        Quote: IGAR
                        In the area of ​​the city of Gaziantep were just American air defense systems. You write about it yourself. In 2015, Washington took them out. This is evidenced by official sources in Turkey.
                        You operate with fragmentary information and not too fresh. After the withdrawal of American, German and Dutch air defense systems from Turkey, they were replaced by Spanish in the framework of NATO. Agree, the essence of this does not change, it's all the same "Patriots", the decision on the application of which is made by the Americans. According to my data, in 2019, 3 batteries were deployed in Turkey, including in the relative proximity of the border with Syria.
                        Quote: IGAR
                        That is, in your opinion, the radiation of some radars indicates the deployment of the Patriot air defense system near the Syrian border?

                        Not some, but AN / MPQ-53.
                      13. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 50 New
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                        According to my data, in 2019, 3 batteries were deployed in Turkey, including in the relative proximity of the border with Syria.

                        And in my opinion, they are not there. The level of argumentation is over the top, isn't it?
                      14. Bongo 22 February 2020 13: 54 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        And in my opinion, they are not there.

                        Well, you until the very last claimed that the Patriot air defense system in Turkey is not.
                        Quote: IGAR
                        The level of argumentation is over the top, isn't it?

                        Not true. SAM Patriot even being stationed at Incirlik airbase is able to hit targets in the Syrian-Turkish border.
                      15. Igar 22 February 2020 14: 10 New
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                        I originally spoke about the Americans. They are discussed both in the note and in the comments.

                        Not true. SAM Patriot even being stationed at Incirlik airbase is able to hit targets in the Syrian-Turkish border.

                        TTX will not allow. The Americans themselves write that even the most modern modification of the PAC-3 MSE flies at a maximum of 96 km.
                      16. Bongo 22 February 2020 16: 13 New
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                        Quote: IGAR
                        I originally spoke about the Americans. They are discussed both in the note and in the comments.

                        So you still acknowledge that there are NATO “Patriots” in Turkey?
                        Quote: IGAR
                        The Americans themselves write that even the most modern modification of the PAC-3 MSE flies at a maximum of 96 km.

                        Most sources write up to 100 km. From the position in the vicinity of Incirlik to the Syrian-Turkish border - 105 km.
                      17. Igar 22 February 2020 17: 03 New
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                        So you still acknowledge that there are NATO “Patriots” in Turkey?

                        I do not know. I will not say anything.

                        From the position in the vicinity of Incirlik to the Syrian-Turkish border - 105 km.

                        110 km from Incirlik to the extreme point on the Syrian-Turkish border. Idlib is 160 km away.

  • askort154 22 February 2020 11: 10 New
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    Bongo ...Google Earth Satellite Image: Position of Patriot SAM in the vicinity of Incirlik Air Base

    Amazing naivety. To cite examples of Google’s images in the deployment of US military bases., And even more so their means of protection.
    Under whom does Google go ?! Who created it and its main goal ?!
    And do you have any idea about the program to create false
    "camouflage" targets ?!
    With regards to the "patriots" in Turkey, they were taken out "generally" from the territory of Turkey in 2015 at the insistence of Germany.
    IGAR - right! hi
    1. Bongo 22 February 2020 11: 29 New
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      Quote: askort154
      Amazing naivety. To cite examples of Google’s images in the deployment of US military bases., And even more so their means of protection.

      It's amazing naivety to ignore the obvious.
      Quote: askort154
      With regards to the "patriots" in Turkey, they were taken out "generally" from the territory of Turkey in 2015 at the insistence of Germany.

      Are you sure about that? Bet on a bottle of any drink, what does Patriot have in Turkey, or at least were in 2019?
      1. askort154 22 February 2020 14: 52 New
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        Bongo .....Are you sure about that? Bet on a bottle of any drink, what does Patriot have in Turkey, or at least were in 2019?

        Convincingly prove! The bottle is after me. Just do not need links like Google.
        I only know one thing, Turkey has not been admitted to the EU for decades, keeping it on the threshold. Erdogan, in his election program, promised to solve this problem. Having become president, he first of all began to solve this problem. But again he ran into a "soft assist with a promise." Erdogan "exploded." He began to “launch refugees” to Europe. Merkel was led, and even initially supported, as Germany suffers from a demographic crisis. When the EU realized what they were facing, an influx of "refugee-terrorists", they began to look for ways out. Erdogan proposed the EU, for 6 billion euro. stop the flow. Turkey paid 3 mln., The rest were "frozen." Erdogan did not calm down, he began to blackmail the EU.
        Because, only in Germany lives 4 mill. Turks, he became through them influenced the political elections in the EU, especially in Germany and the Netherlands. Realizing that there would be endless blackmail, Merkel and Obama decided to put the "Sultan" in place. The remaining 3 mlr. They didn’t pay, and making sure that Erdogan was unpredictable, they decided to “dismiss him”. First, the "patriots" were removed in 2015, making it clear that you will be "naked" from the air, like Gaddafi. The stubborn Erdogan demanded further payment, blackmailing flows of new refugees to Europe. In response to him, they organized "discontent in the army" and the civil "Gillen movement".
        Then they decided to remove it physically. But these plans were thwarted by Russian intelligence. Erdogan was taken out of the villa, half an hour before the attempt on him. Erdogan is now a “rat in the corner” for NATO, for the EU, for the BV, and for Russia.
        He again requested the United States "patriots" to the border with Syria. So far has been refused. hi
        1. Bongo 22 February 2020 16: 29 New
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          Quote: askort154
          Convincingly prove! The bottle is after me.

          https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2019/06/18/spain-extends-air-defense-system-deployment-in-turkey
          English source, pay attention to the date.
          Well, Russian speakers:
          https://mk-turkey.ru/politics/2019/06/18/mo-ispaniya-prodlila-razvyortyvanie-sistemy-pvo-v-turcii.html

          https://www.swissinfo.ch/rus/%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%B7%D1%80%D0%BA-patriot-%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8F-%D0%B2-%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0---%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BB/45437778

          https://www.aa.com.tr/ru/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80/%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0-%D1%81%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA-%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8-patriot-%D0%B2-%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8/1663933

          Dates are everywhere hi
  • svp67 22 February 2020 03: 23 New
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    Quote: 1976AG
    But most importantly, the Turks understand the futility of the S-400 against the Russian Air Force.

    Not even that, they need a clear manifestation of solidarity, not just NATO, but the United States. And so I do not quite agree with the author. Why did the Turkish authorities decide to make this request for the deployment of these complexes, knowing full well that only American troops can manage them now, and the next six months? I believe that the leadership of the Turkish Armed Forces is well aware that very soon the Syrian Armed Forces will begin to enter the border line with Turkey, which means that they will be able to support the same artillery, "to their barmaley" only from their territory, here its location, as well as the base, is financially technical support and grouping of forces of their troops, and the prepared "barmaley" they want to cover from air strikes. Understanding that the Syrians will not want to specifically contact NATO
  • Evgeny Velikanov 22 February 2020 09: 26 New
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    They have not deployed them yet. So yes - the s-400 is useless against everyone
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Al_lexx 21 February 2020 21: 52 New
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    An interesting, almost stalemate situation, if we omit the legal aspects that are completely on the side of Russia, which supports the ATS.
  • Chigi 21 February 2020 21: 59 New
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    if in parallel with the deployment of air defense systems over Idlib a no-fly zone will be declared

    Syria is high time to declare a no-fly zone over Idlib. And so that neither the Turkish Air Force nor the coalition Air Force would think to meddle there.

    Indeed, despite all the bravado (and, by the way, unofficial) statements that the US F-400 and F-22 fighters observed the calculations of our S-35s in Syria, the US Air Force “invisibility” never entered the detection zone neither the S-400 air defense radar nor the S-300 airborne SAR radar.


    F-22 and F-35 US AirForce were not included in the range of Russian air defense.
    But the F-35 of Israel - entered, and were quite observable.
    According to Lavrov, "Highly Likely" 6 F-35s were found near Iran’s borders after attacking USA bases and were observed before the attack on Boeing.
    1. Lamata 21 February 2020 22: 03 New
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      If the Syrians declare a no-fly zone over Idliu, then the Russian Air Force also fall, and if there is an exception for ours, then the terrible howl of the FSA will raise, and the Turks.
      1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 13 New
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        VKS RF Invited by the Syrian, legitimate, legitimate government to protect the heavens and earth of Syria.
        And the USA and the Turks, if they raise a "howl", can go to the UN.
        The sovereign state of the Syrian Arab Republic did not invite either coalition troops or Turkish troops to its territory officially.
        Only the Russian Armed Forces were officially invited, therefore they are there.

        In other words - do not care how the Turks and the United States will "howl"
        1. Lamata 21 February 2020 22: 18 New
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          Yes, why then the FSA and the Turks still do not climb out of Syria? Ihto was not invited. And the UN, but who pays that attention to this cesspool.
        2. Ivanitch I 21 February 2020 22: 20 New
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          If you declare an unmanned zone, you will need to shoot down everything that is not your own or allowed. Syria is unlikely to pull, even with our VKS on Khmeimim .... but it would be great ...
        3. Cyrus 22 February 2020 06: 45 New
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          And the UN will side with the US and Turkey
    2. Igar 21 February 2020 22: 05 New
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      But the F-35 of Israel - entered, and were quite observable.

      Have you personally observed them? Let's operate with facts
      1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 15 New
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        State your facts, we will "appeal"
        1. Igar 21 February 2020 22: 18 New
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          So, the facts will be or idle talk? You made a loud statement, but did not give evidence.
          1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 40 New
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            Dear, read the news bulletins, look for the data yourself.
            You will find data that "6 F-35s were not found near the Iranian borders at the time of the missile strike" - publish.
            I have enough information received by Mr. Lavrov. This is a worthy "data source."
            However, if he doubts, then I too, about which I made a corresponding note in the message
            1. Igar 21 February 2020 22: 53 New
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              What does Iran have to do with Syria? This is the first. The second:

              You will find evidence that "6 F-35s were not found near the Iranian borders at the time of the missile strike"

              Seriously? Find information that the Iranian border did not have an F-35? You have some strange train of thought. Usually they prove what was, and not what was not ...

              Dear, read the news bulletins, look for the data yourself.

              Why should I look for some fables? I highly recommend that you operate on verified facts, not the stories told in the kitchen under brandy.

              PS minus the comments this is some kind of kindergarten, by golly. I believe this is your only argument.
              1. Chigi 21 February 2020 23: 04 New
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                What does Iran have to do with Syria?

                It's actually about "Patriot on the Syrian border," read the topic before writing.

                Seriously? Find information that the Iranian border did not have an F-35? You have some strange train of thought. Usually they prove what was, and not what was not ...

                You are not interested in “what happened”; you have other premises and data sources.
                I have data from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, and he knows about it, but he doubts, as I wrote.
                And where do you get the data "what didn’t they have?" Have you come up with it yourself or did someone tell you, assure you?

                PS minus the comments this is some kind of kindergarten, by golly. I believe this is your only argument.

                Hmm, a similar statement in your direction. Although on the "plush swords", but let's honestly.
                1. Igar 21 February 2020 23: 33 New
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                  So I did not touch your comments. I have these minuses and pluses on the side. And I see your cons. But oh well, it's not about that at all.

                  F-22 and F-35 US AirForce were not included in the range of Russian air defense.
                  But the F-35 of Israel - entered, and were quite observable.

                  I have data from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, and he knows about it, but he doubts, as I wrote.

                  What are you talking about? About Syria? About Iran? What zone of Russian air defense did the Israelis enter?
                  1. Chigi 21 February 2020 23: 49 New
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                    Calm down you, that you so "generate that".
                    It's about the location of the American Patriot complexes.
                    You do not like that "6 F-35 were found on the border of Iran"? Does it bother you?
                    Well, they found that from that, do not worry so, your planes did not get shot down. All is well)
                    My "word" means nothing to you. Your "word" is of no interest to me.
                    Live calmly, be rich.
                    1. Igar 22 February 2020 08: 25 New
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                      Everything is clear, you are our "detector". Apparently you fly over the Middle East and you find everyone, but you notice them. Absolutely pointless communication. Not a single fact, only fables spread in the net. I have no more questions for you.
                2. Nyrobsky 22 February 2020 00: 11 New
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                  Quote: Chigi
                  What does Iran have to do with Syria?

                  It's actually about "Patriot on the Syrian border," read the topic before writing.
                  Why would he (IGAR) re-read the article he authored? lol
                  Quote: Chigi
                  You are not interested in “what happened”; you have other premises and data sources.
                  It was a matter of creeping into Syrian airspace, but then the Syrians still “landed” their plane. After this, the Jews, of course, strike, but from the territory of Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan, without invading Syrian airspace, which limits the actions of Syrian air defense, and this tactic is adhered to this day. hi
                  1. Chigi 22 February 2020 00: 39 New
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                    It's actually about "Patriot on the Syrian border," read the topic before writing.

                    This is somewhat confusing. Why is IGAR so confused in an article written by him himself)

                    After this, the Jews, of course, strike, but already from the territory of Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.

                    Well, I do not consider it appropriate to use the term "Jews."
                    It doesn’t bother me, but it can hurt VO readers.
                    Let there still be "Israelis."

                    which limits the actions of Syrian air defense, and this tactic is adhered to this day.

                    Limit missile launches to Syrian air defense. Because Israeli planes launch missiles and bombs over Lebanon.
                    Believe me, a detection zone of 250 km is enough to detect planes over Lebanon.
                    Or are you against it?
                    1. Nyrobsky 22 February 2020 00: 51 New
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                      Quote: Chigi
                      Believe me, a detection zone of 250 km is enough to detect planes over Lebanon.
                      Or are you against it?

                      It is possible to detect, but it is impossible to bring down due to the fact that it is the airspace of Lebanon, but not Syria, and therefore this action will be presented as an act of unjustified aggression with all the consequences. Syria in this situation, in terms of making claims at the international level, is in a better situation. Not now, but when. It happens that when the conductor changes, the orchestra plays differently.
                      Quote: Chigi
                      Well, I do not consider it appropriate to use the term "Jews." It doesn’t bother me, but it can hurt VO readers.
                      I see no problem in the fact that a Jew would be embarrassed that he is a Jew. The concept - "Jew" has no offensive tone. This is the same nationality as Russian or Tatar. Israelis have a broader meaning than Jews, since the same Arabs live there (in Israel), but state policy is being promoted in the interests of the national majority, i.e. Jews.
                      1. Chigi 22 February 2020 01: 05 New
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                        It is possible to detect, but it is impossible to bring down due to the fact that it is the airspace of Lebanon, but not Syria, and therefore this action will be presented as an act of unjustified aggression with all the consequences.

                        So what did you want to say?
                        Neither I nor IGAR urged to launch rockets and shoot down (destroy).
                        We discussed the issue of where the F-35 was spotted.
                      2. Grits 22 February 2020 02: 17 New
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                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        It is possible to detect, but it is impossible to bring down due to the fact that it is the airspace of Lebanon, but not Syria, and therefore this action will be presented as an act of unjustified aggression with all the consequences.

                        This is the Jesuit "law" used by Jews.
                        Then a logical question immediately arises - and if, say, a Russian VKS plane is shot down by the Turks over the territory of Syria, from its own airspace - how is this to be regarded? Indeed, logically, if it is possible to strike from the airspace on the territory of a neighboring state, then why is it impossible to launch an air-to-air missile from a fighter from the same airspace and bring down an airplane?
                      3. borberd 22 February 2020 15: 12 New
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                        Already someone, but the Syrians, who had occupied Lebanon for 40 years and killed everyone they didn’t like there, didn’t care about international laws, not only regarding Lebanon, but also against Jordan, Cyprus and Israel where Syrian missiles from the S-200 fell . If they could, then international laws would not stop them.
            2. Grits 22 February 2020 02: 09 New
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              Quote: IGAR
              I highly recommend that you operate on verified facts, not the stories told in the kitchen under brandy.

              Dear author, your opponent clearly told you that he was quoting Lavrov’s words (if you don’t know what it is, then, for a minute, it’s the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Government of the Russian Federation). And his words were precisely picked up by many resources, including official ones.
              What other verified facts do you require of him?
              Give an example of how to operate with verified facts, and then we will believe you.
              1. Igar 22 February 2020 09: 34 New
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                Yes, be there at least 20 F-35. What does it have to do with it? The opponent stated that fighters of this type were part of the Russian air defense. To my question where and when, he suddenly started talking about Iran. Where is the connection?
    3. Evgeny Velikanov 22 February 2020 09: 28 New
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      And why not the fact that they were seen by ours?
  • Prjanik 21 February 2020 22: 16 New
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    F-35 Israel

    These are unlikely to enter the airspace of the ATS.
    1. Vitaly gusin 21 February 2020 22: 28 New
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      Quote: Prjanik
      These are unlikely to enter the airspace of the ATS.

      1. Prjanik 21 February 2020 22: 33 New
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        And what's the point if you can from Lebanon?
        1. Vitaly gusin 21 February 2020 22: 38 New
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          Quote: Prjanik
          And what's the point if you can from Lebanon?

          We must be able from all sides, where they are waiting and where they are not waiting.
          A nuclear reactor in Syria was attacked by entering from Turkey.
          1. Grits 22 February 2020 02: 30 New
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            Quote: Vitaly Gusin
            We must be able from all sides, where they are waiting and where they are not waiting.

            In the same way, Jews can attack Iran with aviation without any problems with the borders of other countries. On their way there is only Syria, through which there is a risk of flight. The rest - no questions asked. Lebanon, Jordan are obedient and meek countries that have not even uttered anything against Israel. Iraq is generally a colony of the USA, and there are no air defense systems there. There is friction with Turkey, but since she is one of their wives (albeit obstinate) in the US harem, you can always agree.
            1. Vitaly gusin 22 February 2020 10: 06 New
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              Quote: Gritsa
              In the same way, Jews can attack Iran with aviation without any problems with the borders of other countries.

              Yes, in general, you’ve already tried it right.
              "After rumors about the invasion of Israeli aircraft into Iran, the administration of Ayatollah Khamenei launched an investigation. As a result, it was proved that the Israeli Air Force F-35 fighters were actually in the airspace of the Islamic Republic, flying over Tehran, Isfahan, Arak and several other large cities of the country. At the same time, the planes went unnoticed, or their span was left without due attention from the air defense forces. "
              https://warfiles.ru/182400-izrailskie-f-35-nad-iranom-v-tegerane-rvut-i-mechut.html
        2. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 45 New
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          Yeah you're right of course Lebanon
    2. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 42 New
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      So they did not enter, they bombed several times from Lebanese airspace.
      1. Vitaly gusin 21 February 2020 22: 45 New
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        Quote: Chigi
        So they did not enter, they bombed several times from Libyan airspace.

        Do not understand what was bombed from Libya?
        1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 48 New
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          Wrong, "from the airspace of Lebanon." Was wrong
          1. Vitaly gusin 21 February 2020 23: 14 New
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            Quote: Chigi
            Wrong, "from the airspace of Lebanon." Was wrong

            This is written as who needs to find the reason, but in fact, they go when they need to and from where they need to, notifying the VKS and each time accompanied by a request to inform the SAA that the Syrian air defense that will operate on airplanes will be destroyed, as it was before . Recently, we read that they “shot down” rockets. Well, they shot down so they shot down, it is important that the intended goals of the IRGC are destroyed.
            1. Chigi 21 February 2020 23: 39 New
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              Syria’s air defense is destroyed because they do not have modern air defense systems.
              Russian S-400s cover only our bases Hmeimim and Tartu. Why
              With "polit. Information" I think completed.
              And no one knows ... I have only such an answer.
              1. Vitaly gusin 22 February 2020 00: 03 New
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                Quote: Chigi
                Syria’s air defense is destroyed because they do not have modern air defense systems.

                “The S-300 is capable of intercepting air attack weapons at ranges of more than 250 km and simultaneously hit several air targets,” said Shoigu. The complex has high noise immunity and rate of fire, the minister said.
                Shoigu also promised that from now on, in the areas adjacent to Syria over the Mediterranean Sea, radio-electronic suppression of satellite navigation, airborne radars and communications systems for military aircraft attacking objects on Syrian territory will be carried out.
                Quote: Chigi
                With "polit. Information" I think completed.

                Information Onlywithout politics.
                Quote: Chigi
                And no one knows ... I have only such an answer.

                This is your answer and I accept it, but speak "no one", it's too much.
                1. Chigi 22 February 2020 00: 13 New
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                  This is your answer and I accept it, but saying "no one" is superfluous.

                  No, dear, "superfluous" you are here telling the public ...

                  Shoigu said what he wanted to say.
                  1. Vitaly gusin 22 February 2020 00: 27 New
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                    Quote: Chigi
                    Shoigu said what he wanted to say.

                    It suits my statements and yours, but the Minister of Defense is obliged to do what he says.
                    1. Chigi 22 February 2020 01: 17 New
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                      After a couple of years, we will ask the Minister of our Defense "what he said, why and why"
                      "Do not bother to work," that would be his answer now.
                  2. Grits 22 February 2020 02: 35 New
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                    Quote: Chigi
                    Shoigu said what he wanted to say.

                    And what is the use of what he said, what is the use of the fact that he once again advertised the S-300? What is the use of standing in Syria? Has he shot down even one Jewish plane? Or at least scared?
                    How many bravura speeches and shaking fists were - they say, here we are! Well, they brought them to Syria .... Nothing has changed. Therefore, somehow all quickly buried.
                    1. Vitaly gusin 22 February 2020 10: 15 New
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                      Quote: Gritsa
                      Nothing changed. Therefore, somehow all quickly buried.

                      No, they just realized that not only would nobody buy it anymore, but they would not repay debts.
                      And for today, this is the most important thing.
                      Yes, and as you lead, this is the smallest problem that looms today and this is only the beginning.
  • svoit 21 February 2020 22: 00 New
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    it has at least some practical meaning if, in parallel with the deployment of air defense systems over Idlib, a no-fly zone is declared

    You just need to understand why they are there, apparently the Turks want to prevent the Turkish territory from bombing our Turkish air forces, which is logical, because it feeds bandit formations, and Turkey itself is engaged in similar activities in Kurdistan. The no-fly zone implies a ban on the operation of all air means, regardless of affiliation and destination, it is unlikely that the Turks will go for it even over their territory.
    1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 17 New
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      Oh oh oh!

      Turks want to prevent the bombing of Turkish territory by our aerospace forces, which is logical, because it feeds bandit formations


      In a nightmare I do not suppose an attack of the Russian air forces on the territory of Turkey! What are you? It's a stone age
  • Swordserg 21 February 2020 22: 00 New
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    The Americans refused to supply. GDP made it clear that Syria is not divided and will not give offense. What will the mustachioed do now? Unleash the war?
    1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 20 New
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      He is a "hot-tempered" man, but by no means stupid. Neither Russia nor Turkey needs a war.
      How, what and what will be "exchanged" - we learn in the news
  • businessv 21 February 2020 22: 06 New
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    We observe something similar with the S-300 air defense system, which has been handed over to the Syrians for 1,5 years already, but never showed themselves.
    Too bad they didn’t! If they showed, maybe there would be less problems. With Idlib, the farther, the more absurd the situation! The Turks bought up oil for next to nothing, now the freebie is over, so with a torn sheep at least a bunch of wool - you need to squeeze the territory. They do not fulfill the agreements, but they scream about their non-compliance with Syria and Russia. If they do, they will share the barmalei with the opposition, the Syrians will throw the barmalei into the ground, but then everyone and everything in Syria will be forced to finish, but the Turks really do not want to.
    1. Chigi 21 February 2020 22: 30 New
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      Too bad they didn’t! If they showed, maybe there would be less problems. With Idlib, the farther, the more absurd the situation!

      If the C-x00 were shot down half a year ago even by an Israeli plane, the situation would be much more absurd now.
      Exposure and "tact" and "Polite People". This is the ideal of modern warfare in civilized countries.
      1. Vitaly gusin 21 February 2020 22: 43 New
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        Quote: Chigi
        Too bad they didn’t! If they showed, maybe there would be less problems. With Idlib, the farther, the more absurd the situation!

        If the C-x00 were shot down half a year ago even by an Israeli plane, the situation would be much more absurd now.
        Exposure and "tact" and "Polite People". This is the ideal of modern warfare in civilized countries.

        Deserves +
  • serzh.kost 21 February 2020 22: 07 New
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    Syrian television published a video on the destruction of equipment and installations of Turkish troops during the attack on Neurab.
    1. asv363 21 February 2020 22: 50 New
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      A similar video from IA SANA, where the defeat of goals is shown more clearly:

      1. serzh.kost 21 February 2020 22: 56 New
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        thanks. beauty, what
  • SanSanych Gusev 21 February 2020 22: 15 New
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    In the words of Comrade Stalin some strange war among them
  • JonnyT 21 February 2020 22: 19 New
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    They are just around the corner, they don’t place ...... they are afraid of the leak of secrets of the patriot
  • Voltsky 21 February 2020 22: 21 New
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    The author was not much mistaken that F-22 and F-35 were included in the coverage area of ​​the S-400 radar, and he saw them perfectly; and it was amazing if he hadn’t seen them with Luneberg lenses then :)
    I will not give proofs :)
    1. Igar 21 February 2020 22: 32 New
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      In fact, the author writes the opposite
      1. Voltsky 21 February 2020 22: 38 New
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        sorry I meant that they just did come in :) "not" missed. They flew with reflectors near the borders of Jordan
        so that there is no data on this EPR
        1. Igar 21 February 2020 22: 57 New
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          You mixed Jordan with Lebanese Beirut
          1. Voltsky 21 February 2020 23: 04 New
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            no, I didn’t mix it up there, it seems like the Israelis are raging :)
            Otherwise, okay; I completely agree with the article :) I’ll even say more, such a feeling as if I wrote it 2 days ago :) it's good when you find a like-minded
            1. Igar 21 February 2020 23: 27 New
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              I insist =)

              1. Voltsky 21 February 2020 23: 50 New
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                I only heard about Jordan and the CA, again I got into the hole, what a day it is :)
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Voltsky 22 February 2020 00: 21 New
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                I wanted to use this article as a proof, and not photos of which as it turned out a lot of "f-35 beirut"
                https://theaviationist.com/2018/01/26/interesting-photos-show-u-s-air-force-f-35a-stealth-jets-deployed-to-japan-about-to-launch-without-radar-reflectors/

                and I spoke about the bombing of Iraq by the Americans, but at least we can say that we are both right; I’ve detected them, and you’re in Lebanon.
  • serzh.kost 21 February 2020 22: 28 New
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    Quote: svoit
    apparently the Turks want to prevent the bombing of our Turkish territory by our aerospace forces

    Are you serious? belay
    in my opinion, now in the rhetoric of the Sultan there is no question of the Syrian army retreating to its previous positions, but only of stopping Assad’s "atrocities." calls to Macron and Merkel, an attempt to enlist the support of the international community, I hope the peak of escalation has been passed.
  • dsdelta 21 February 2020 22: 29 New
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    There are no reliable systems protecting the Patriot from anti-radar missiles. This is still the case, it seems. Patriot standing alone can be put out.
    1. Sky strike fighter 21 February 2020 23: 10 New
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      Skyceptor, for example. They claim that the PAC-3MSE itself is cool. In any case, only practice will show what.
      No matter how much the patriots claim that the PAC-3MSE does not have the ability to create a reliable "missile defense umbrella" from our air attack weapons, in reality the situation looks much more serious. We are dealing with an anti-aircraft guided missile / anti-missile updated version of MIM-104F, which is equipped with a gas-dynamic control system based on 10 gas-dynamic “belts” with 18 transverse control engines in each. Unlike SAM with only an aerodynamic control system + gas-jet SUVT, MIM-104F “jumps” on the trajectory due to transverse thrust occur in hundredths of a second with overloads of more than 60G.

      As a result, if the target is properly captured by means of an active radar homing head, it will not be so easy to “get away” from MIM-104F not only a poorly maneuverable aerodynamic or ballistic target, but also an object that maneuvers with an overload of 20 — 30 units, especially since MIM-104F has speed of the order of 1480 m / s (5312 km / h). The Patriot PAC-3 MSE complex is fully capable of destroying all anti-radar missiles that are in service with the Russian VKS (including X-XNUMHUSHK and X-58P), strategic cruise missiles of the X-31 and 101М3К / T Caliber-PL / NK, subsonic long-range tactical cruise missiles 14М9 (Р-728) of the Iskander-M complex. Noticeable difficulties can arise only in the process of intercepting the maneuvering tactical ballistic missiles 500М9-723 Iskander-M, but even here the probability of destruction is far from zero, and approaches approximately 1 - 0,15. Maybe this version of the ERAC anti-missile system of the PAC-0,25 + complex can also hit missiles of Tornado-C and Polonez multiple rocket launchers.

      https://topwar.ru/139452-vs-rossii-stolknutsya-s-tandemom-pro-pac-3-skyceptor-temnaya-loshadka-amerikano-polskoy-sdelki.html
  • Tank jacket 21 February 2020 23: 16 New
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    Oooooh Analytics has gone .....
    There were some black spots
  • flicker 21 February 2020 23: 50 New
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    Korzhakov once said that Berezovsky was very fond of leaving Yeltsin’s reception room with a sandwich. Not because he was hungry, but simply wanted everyone to show what short leg he was with Yeltsin and his administration.
    So the Turks want to show (with the Petriots) that the United States is on their side and that, in which case, any moment will come to the rescue.
    Actually, Erdogan voiced this idea after talking with Putin over the telephone.
    "God doesn’t give a horny cow."
    So Erdogan wants to sultan, but now the Janissary is not so armed. The tanks are imported, airplanes too, air defense begs, etc. etc., in short, Erdogan is a warrior without his weapons.
    It is trying to scare Russia with war, but Russia is not scared, but such a reaction scares Russia itself Erdogan, after which nagging begins: but help, the Sochi memorandum, Janissaries - forward, Janissaries - back, etc.
    Hmm, nothing to do with Ataturk.
  • Sarkazm 22 February 2020 00: 04 New
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    The composition of the Turkish air defense forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_weapons_of_the_Turkish_Air_Force
    The upgraded air defense systems Hawk 21 and Rapira 2000 are the main strength of their air defense. Noteworthy is the number of Rapira 2000 air defense missile launchers; the Turks produce missiles for this air defense system themselves.
    Composition of the Turkish Air Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_aircraft_of_the_Turkish_Air_Force

    Patriot air defense systems were deployed / deployed in Turkey primarily as a means of missile defense, and these were not American air defense systems. There is no point in placing them along the border with Syria again, since there is no threat of missile attacks.

    At the same time, the Turks have more than enough forces and means to ensure the solution of air defense tasks in Syria in general and over a possible combat zone, taking into account the number of Syrian air forces and Russian air forces. Fake, and the news is old, about the fact of the request by the Turks for the SAM system, Patriot was refuted by both the Turks and the Americans. On the other hand, the representative of the US State Department today said verbatim:

    The USA and Turkey are strategic partners and allies. We are conducting close consultations on the situation in Idlib, where the attacks of the Syrian regime and the Russian Federation led to the fact that almost a million innocent citizens were displaced and Turkish soldiers were killed. We strongly support Turkey in this difficult situation..
    1. Voltsky 22 February 2020 00: 35 New
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      I support, there are plenty of forces among the Turks and without patriots, if you want to suppress the hakeim together with the Syrian Air Force; only this is War and now it’s not enough strength for it ..
  • Chaldon48 22 February 2020 00: 07 New
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    No one wants a full-blown big war. The clash between Russia and the United States could end in a general catastrophe.
    1. cniza 22 February 2020 08: 42 New
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      It can’t, but end, so no one will do it ...
  • Sarkazm 22 February 2020 01: 04 New
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    Quote: Voletsky
    only this is War and now it’s not enough strength for it ..
    God forbid ... and in the event of a clash between Turkey and Russia, we will deal already with NATO. It is possible, in the latter case, to draw such a line that NATO doesn’t even confine itself to the support of the Turks, but it needs to have very steel coca and do things for which you need to be Joseph Stalin, and not Vladimir Putin. Yes, admirers of the latter will forgive me, although not even a Stalinist, but Stalin and his team, the GDP and his entourage are not just far away, it is simply impossible to compare.
    I remember Stalin only as the head of state with whom the country passed and won the most difficult war.
    1. Voltsky 22 February 2020 04: 11 New
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      Well, Turkey’s support, if something happens, will be what you haven’t seen since Afghanistan, which will result in a broken ridge of one state and the actual destruction of another. Therefore, I say this conflict is unlikely, because dividends and risks are not comparable.
      There is nothing worth the risk; The Russian Federation can’t abandon the bases in which billions are swelled, it cannot refuse the south stream into which billions are swelled (here remark, you may have to agree to the Qatar-Turkish gas pipeline)
      For Turkey, the north of Syria does not pay back the risks of a direct clash with Russia, and the Russian Federation, in turn, turns Syria into an unpleasant hedgehog that, even without direct assistance, will break the back of Turkey (valoneters, advisers and others not known)
  • lvov_aleksey 22 February 2020 03: 58 New
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    I'm already funny, we do not know the type of portrait !?
  • Sarkazm 22 February 2020 05: 09 New
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    Quote: Voletsky
    Well, Turkey’s support, if something happens, will be what you haven’t seen since Afghanistan, which will result in a broken ridge of one state and the actual destruction of another. Therefore, I say this conflict is unlikely, because dividends and risks are not comparable.
    There is nothing worth the risk; The Russian Federation can’t abandon the bases in which billions are swelled, it cannot refuse the south stream into which billions are swelled (here remark, you may have to agree to the Qatar-Turkish gas pipeline)
    For Turkey, the north of Syria does not pay back the risks of a direct clash with Russia, and the Russian Federation, in turn, turns Syria into an unpleasant hedgehog that, even without direct assistance, will break the back of Turkey (valoneters, advisers and others not known)
    Um, you THINK that, though you don’t agree with the conclusions, but I’m afraid that among our masters few people can do this themselves, think. And in principle, they are only talking heads by and large, and specialists should do the work. Yes, only judging by our "successes" lately and the decisions taken with the delivery, there are fewer and fewer specialists surrounded by our masters. People apparently just die, but there is no shift, not grown, because the continuity is broken.

    There is no material, there is no competition of brains, with education they got enough of it so that half of the population cannot write without errors. The culture was reduced to tame pop gays and prostitutes, that the street was mate, that the Foreign Minister was a diplomat from God.
  • cniza 22 February 2020 08: 40 New
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    The Pentagon, in turn, confirmed the receipt of such a request, but clarified that no decision has yet been made on it.


    So still they asked ...
  • Evgeny Velikanov 22 February 2020 09: 25 New
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    As I understand it, the author decided to distort everything.

    1. Akar did not ask for patriots. He denied this lie
    2. The unmanned zone above Idlib is already there. It was introduced by Russia. Turkey asks her to take off
    1. Igar 22 February 2020 13: 02 New
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      No, you don’t understand. The lies are spreading just by you.
      1. requested. https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/7810123
      2. I recommend reading carefully.
  • pogis 22 February 2020 14: 43 New
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    About patriots
    https://yandex.ru/turbo?text=https%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2F20190522%2F1554787575.html&utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=mobile&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews&brand=news
  • Old26 22 February 2020 19: 00 New
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    Quote: Spectrum
    This is not for you personally. ficus2003 - it's just an aphorism "It's easy to consider yourself a strategist after seeing a fight from the side.".

    In fact, the phrase sounds: everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side
  • Anchonsha 23 February 2020 11: 39 New
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    Here the Ottomans have always been and will be. As well as Ukrainians for sale