Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

Today, the Minister of Armed Forces of France Florence Parley and the Minister of Defense of Germany, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbaer, will sign a contract for a joint Franco-German development of a new generation combat aircraft. This is a program called SCAF. It involves the creation of a generation 6 fighter.

As it turns out, Spain decided to join the joint development. That is why today the signing of the contract will take place in the presence of the Secretary of State of the Minister of Defense of Spain, Angel Olivares Ramirez.

At the first stage, which will last about a year and a half, the preparation of documentation is planned. At this stage, the project will be financed by Paris and Berlin in the amount of 155 million euros. A basic project will be presented for this amount, which will include design documentation, certification, computer simulation, and the selection of specific weapons. After that, a demonstration model should be created, for which tests in a wind tunnel will be carried out.

The German parliament has put forward a list of 7 requirements for the SCAF project. Several of these requirements relate to the need for support from a German manufacturer. For example, it is planned to involve the company Rheinmetall. The Bundestag also demanded that the German Ministry of Defense hook up economic control departments that would provide interim reports on budget expenditures for the creation of a 6th generation fighter.

Recall that one of the models of the future fighter was exhibited at the international air show in France in 2019.

Comments

[Ross xnumx]

Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

It is curious that Europe, at last, dared to set up a competitive project ... Let’s wait and see what the Germans, French and Spaniards are “good for”, and that the Americans are “foolish” ...

[vkl.47]

They won’t build anything. Americans will not give. Otherwise sanctions or maydaun. They will buy fu35. They will force. They are all spineless.

[cniza]

If they manage to drive the USA out of Europe then yes ...

[bessmertniy]

The goal is set for the 6th generation, and there - even though the grass does not grow. It just doesn't seem like how much time will they need for this as a whole - 10 years or 15?

[Skubudu]

Quote: vkl.47

They won’t build anything. Americans will not give. Otherwise sanctions or maydaun. They will buy fu35. They will force. They are all spineless.

How many F-35? bought France and Germany? The answer is 0.
The French, in cooperation with Germany, are capable of building at least a 5+ generation.
They have all the technology ..
To make a glider "according to technology" with internal compartments for weapons is a feasible task for them, and they have complete order with Polymers.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Skubudu

The French, in cooperation with Germany, are capable of building at least a 5+ generation.
They have all the technology.

They are capable, so what haven’t been built yet? France is satisfied with its Raphael, while Germany is sitting with its Eurofighters. And the rest, only plans on paper and "promising" models

[Skubudu]

Quote: orionvitt

Quote: Skubudu

The French, in cooperation with Germany, are capable of building at least a 5+ generation.
They have all the technology.

They are capable, so what haven’t been built yet? France is satisfied with its Raphael, while Germany is sitting with its Eurofighters. And the rest, only plans on paper and "promising" models

What's wrong with Rafal? Engines 5th generation, production mastered, almost all polymer, AFAR, avionics, weapons all correspond to the 5th generation, super-maneuverable. Only the geometry of the Nestels airframe and no compartments for internal weapons.

[orionvitt]

Quote: Skubudu

everything corresponds to the 5th generation

We discussed, and more than once, that dividing airplanes into generations is very conditional. and often not true. If with the first three generations, everything was very clear, then further (due to the significant complexity of the structures), everything is much more mysterious.

[Piramidon]

Quote: orionvitt

We discussed, and more than once, that dividing airplanes into generations is very conditional. and often not true.

All this was invented by the Yankees, purely for advertising purposes, and the whole world was seduced.

[SAG]

Quote: Skubudu

The French, in cooperation with Germany, are capable of building at least a 5+ generation.
They have all the technology ..

Please tell me, does France or Germany have a technology for creating engines that provide afterburning supersonic sound? (Blades withstanding permanently 2500-2700 ° C) And this is the key technology, and not chopped forms for SMALL radio detectability, as many people think!

[Zaurbek]

The story is repeated with F16 and typhoon-EF-Rafal ...... with losses for the EU. But now it will be a single plane.

[Shteffan]

France will not buy anything. The 4th generation, she decided to do completely herself without any help. She didn’t even talk about procurement from the outside. One of the few countries that has a closed production cycle of fighter aircraft. Almost. So, they would rather stir up something with the Germans than go with outstretched hand to the Americans.

[knn54]

The fact is that relations between France and Germany are historically far from warm, and this may affect the development, especially since there is an example:
4 generations of fighters: Teifun (EU) and Rafale (France), although initially France also participated in the euro fighter project, which later left.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: vkl.47

will buy fu35. force. they are all spineless.

only the "spineless" Germany still hasn't bought the F-35. Like France.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: ROSS 42

Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

It is curious that Europe has finally dared to set up a competitive project ....

Interesting, and so what? I mean, I don’t have my fifth generation fighter, we looked at the F-5 from the States, didn’t like it and immediately decided to do the 35th generation? It is interesting, and what tasks the 6th generation machines should solve and what they should be, in control, in armament, in application ...
Will Europe pull such a cart?

And then will not they go to a tear?

[Machito]

And why not the 7th generation? Better immediately the 8th. Zhirinovsky’s statement about the S-700 sounds much more realistic. S-400 - in series, S-500 is being tested, S-600 is being developed, S-700 is planned.

[Avior]

Your picture is not quite with the classic plot, the cancer doesn’t seem to be pulling back, but pushing forward, the tail hasn’t pulled, so it turns out pulling in one direction, especially a swan with a pike, not like Krylov’s.
But, on the other hand, they’ll drown the cart because it’s even worse if he stood still
An exact mathematical analysis of Krylov’s text gives a slightly different picture for the creation of a 6th generation European fighter

The article shows that they are primarily interested in orders for "their" firms, and not in the overall result, this is immediately stipulated

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Starover_Z

Interesting, and so what? I mean, there is no fifth-generation fighter, we looked at the F-5 from the States, didn’t like it and immediately decided to do the 35th generation?

once the British decided to build a "Dreadnought" ..)
These are the moments that allow you to bypass the enemy at the turn. The main thing here for the Europeans is not to yawn (the bureaucracy is flourishing there too, and there may (and most likely will) arise) disagreements (technical, economic, political), as is often the case in international projects - what with the Typhoon fighter, what with the unfulfilled American-German and Franco-German tanks) and do not skimp.

[Piramidon]

Quote: ROSS 42

Curiously, Europe finally dared to put up a competitive project ...

So far they only WANT to exhibit

[Gray brother]

The Europeans are trifling with something - they would have created the tenth generation right away. Why are these unnecessary intermediate steps?

[Azazelo]

And what’s not 10, let's just the tenth. Call Lucas, he will tell you how to do hwing to both in space and with lasers .....

[cost]

Looked at Internet, what is the 6th generation
"Fighters of the sixth generation" will differ from the fifth in the following characteristics:
extreme stealth (improved stealth technology);
efficiency in all flight modes (from subsonic speed to several Machs);
the possibility of changing the form;
hypersonic speed; over-maneuverability; multifunctionality
smart coverage;
use of composite materials in construction,;
highly integrated networking capabilities;
very sensitive sensors;
fighter piloting optional;
directional energy weapons

[Gray brother]

Quote: Rich

directional energy weapons

This is striped on Wikipedia. In fact, there will be those weapons that are considered quite effective.
I believe that the next generation can be considered machines capable of performing suborbital flights, and the rest is all babble.

[Rostislav]

Have you decided to jump over the step? From the aircraft 4 generations immediately 6. Weakly believe in success.

[rocket757]

Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

But shaw, guys from the islands, already crossed out ??? Interesno.

[cniza]

The non-transatlantic ones are still watching, and then they will be handed out "cuffs" and everything will end there.

[rocket757]

Hi
This is about those from the British Isles ... who now have a lot of "fun"!
Capital letters, because of okey, until they say their weighty "word", we are waiting with.

[cniza]

They will silently do everything and make them (Europe) repent of their mistakes ...

[rocket757]

The big boss will shake off the impined ones and begin to "mow" those who did not manage to drive into the mud in time!

[cniza]

They already took everyone in pencil ...

[rocket757]

He does it right. Every self-respecting boss should have an accountant \ scribe at hand!

[Piramidon]

Quote: cniza

They already took everyone in pencil ...

As always, prepare a list of sanctions

[Grigory_45]

Quote: rocket757

But shaw, guys from the islands, already crossed out ???

those guys in collaboration with Italy and Sweden sculpt their plane

[rocket757]

Geyropeisky capitalist competition! It will even be interesting to look at the results!

[Amateur]

This is a program called SCAF. It involves the creation of a generation 6 fighter.

Have they already formulated scientifically substantiated technical conditions and requirements for the 6th generation aircraft? As far as I know, there are no such generally recognized TRs even by the 5th generation. Or they will act like in a fairy tale: "Go there, I don't know where, do that, I don't know what"

[nks]

The news is about the start of the preliminary design phase. Numbers for generations are given by marketers and couch analysts, etc., not engineers, but in this case we are talking about NGF (new generation fighter) - fighters new generation

[32363]

in advance there is no analogue to the world .. cool technology.

[cniza]

will sign a contract for a joint Franco-German development of a new generation combat aircraft.

The United States will never allow this, from a word at all ...

[Graz]

it’s impossible to jump to the 6th generation without creating the 5th generation, and they still hope to do it for such a ridiculous amount

[orionvitt]

You didn't read carefully. 135 million, this is just to create a model. And the whole project, according to Western habits, would be good as an F-35, a trillion and a half, if only they spend so much on the model and "justification".

[Piramidon]

Quote: orionvitt

135 million, this is only to create a model.

What model for this price? This is only for drawing up a paper with a list of "Wishlist".

[Ros 56]

Did the fifth generation fly away or didn’t even start?

[nks]

someone like, but in general the program for creating a new generation is usually launched no later than the middle of the life cycle of the current

[orionvitt]

Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

Why, so it was possible to jump over a step? They didn’t create another 5th, but they swung for more. However, let them spend their money and more, let's see what they will create outstanding. It just seems to me that in Europe there are now other, more important problems than a 6th generation aircraft.

[Lord of the Sith]

Germany and France sign a contract for the creation of a 6th generation fighter

And why not just the 28th generation? To fly in space and in the atmosphere, have a hyperdrive, a deflector shield and proton torpedoes

[rotmistr60]

If the Europeans believe that the set goal for the creation of an aircraft, and even more so the 6th generation, is enough, then they are great optimists. It is not excluded that at the stage of creation, certain difficulties will already arise because of its main "ally", which does not need additional obstacles on the arms market.

[nks]

difficulties arise mainly from Germany. This is evident from this text.

[Forest]

Start together again)

[Last centurion]

weird. attempts to jump through the piercing usually end in nothing. I understand that England was still involved in this with its sabre engines, so they really can create a 6th generation hypersonic device on their base ... but Germany and France did not differ in anything special in aircraft construction and hypersound

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Last centurion

while Germany and France are nothing special in aircraft construction ...

Oh well..))

[Last centurion]

Germans do nothing after World War II. and the French rafals of which are less than 2 pieces, too, does not count. were beautiful would have sold well. and a decent eurofighter is again, including England, which is not in the list of these 200 countries.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Last centurion

Germans do nothing after World War 2

um, they did not participate in the creation of the Tornado (at the time of construction - a very good machine, to this day - the only European tactical aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons), Eurofighter (including, in collaboration with Rolls-Royce, were engaged in the creation of the engine), they didn’t build the world's only transport VTOL aircraft; they didn’t build combat helicopters; we will not say anything about experimental vehicles.

Quote: Last centurion

and french

and France has created a whole family of "Mirages", a very good "Rafale", participated in the creation of "Jaguar", we will also keep silent about experimental machines.

[iouris]

How many of them are already (in the project)?

[Host Tavern]

The leap so leap, still the 5th tolkm did not break in, but they are already moving to the 6th.

[Sergey СSSS]

To create a 6th generation aircraft in the EU, a minimum of 15-20 years is needed, by then it will be obsolete !!! An example of a crude US F-35 aircraft from Yak 141, which has been done for 15 years !!! More than 2000 shortcomings, the so-called minor diseases !!! They did it in a hurry !!! It will be the same as they tried to do with the tank after the appearance of Almaty in Russia !!! The platform and chassis of one tank, the gun of the other, the electronics of the third !!! Experience and specialists are lost !!! France makes weapons at the level of the end of the 80s, Germany is a little better than the end of the 90s !!! To recover, they will need at least 20 years if they want their weapons at a level close to Russia, although by% 40! ! You can generally forget about air defense and electronic warfare, there’s just a backlog of up to 50 years !!! If the United States has a backlog of 15 to 20 years in missiles, and electronic warfare is generally 30 !!! So count and think !!!