The reality of the day: T-90M instead of “Almaty”

285

Our military department announced that the troops will begin to enter Tanks T-90M.

If we discard the cheery assurances that "by 2027 there will be 900 truly modern tanks in the troops", still by 2027 it will still be necessary to survive and recall this promise, then the reality is this: the T-90M may become skeleton tank troops. If everything goes as it should.



Alexander Potapov (General Director of Uralvagonzavod) no later than February 13 carefully commented on the plans in the spirit of the fact that “I think that this year we will see them.”

Here it must be said that Alexander Valerievich had in mind NEW tanks. That is completely new. And this is only part of the plan. Since the main work is the modernization of tanks of the T-90A models from 2004-2011 to the level of T-90M.

In general, three contracts for 160 cars were concluded. Of these, 40 will be new, and 120 will be upgraded to the T-90M level. The modernization mainly concerned the electronic filling of the fire control system, in particular, tracking targets and installing a new dynamic defense on the tower. Systems have been tested properly, now it's up to implementation.

In 2020, the plant will have to ship at least 15 new tanks.

The figure, say, is not impressive. Both general and promising for the year. However, do not rush, you really need to figure it out.

Let's start with the number 160.

It will have, as I understand it, to share. For a certain number of battalions, the armament of which will be these tanks. It’s the battalions, because after all the battalion we have is the main tactical unit.

At 31, the number "160" is not completely divisible. Exactly 31 tanks are in service with the tank battalion in the tank regiment. So, we look at the tank battalion as part of the SME. And it has 40 tanks. Already better. The files, as Mikhail Zadornov, now deceased, used to say, came together.

So, in the framework of the rearmament program, the new T-90M plans to equip 4 tank battalions in motorized rifle regiments.

Many? Few?

Well, the French today have 226 Leclerc troops in the ground forces. The Germans - 224 "Leopards-2" in stock and almost 300 more in reserve. The Italians have 200 Ariete and 120 Leopards.

If you look like this, it is quite comparable with the armies of our potential ...

That is, 160 tanks, or 4 tank battalions as part of some kind of MSD, there is no sense in breaking up, nevertheless, there will be a difference in service, most likely, or some kind of such brigade.

Personally, I like the idea of ​​a brigade armed with such tanks. It looks very serious.


But let's think about the question: how much is all this timely, justified and useful?

I think that this initiative of the Ministry of Defense is both timely and useful at the same time.

It would be quite clear that there will be no “Almaty”, and the T-72, although it is a B3 (and even B3m), it is still a T-72, whatever Yuri Borisov says. This is a tank, which, alas, is almost (and with development at all) fifty years old.

And I don’t care how well they buy it, as Mr. Vice Prime Minister Borisov has repeatedly stated, buying is not an indicator of combat qualities. You can buy for various reasons.

T-72 is a tank of the middle of the last century, no matter how you try to upgrade it, it will not become modern. Alas. And we’ll finish on that topic of an imminent armored hero (an anniversary is just 50 in Latin).

But the potential of the T-90 is not something that has not been fully revealed, today we can confidently say from experience with the T-72: they have not even come close to the middle. Therefore, the beginning of modernization will be a very, very significant step.

Obviously, the T-90A model tanks, which were produced not so long ago, from 2004 to 2011, fall primarily under modernization. Unambiguously re-equipping these vehicles will not cost as much time and labor as tanks of earlier production periods.

The experience of using the T-90 in the Indian Armed Forces has shown how serious the T-90 is when used correctly. The fact that the Ministry of Defense made such a decision will only benefit our armed forces.

And here you can ask yourself the question: how much will the combat potential of the Russian ground forces increase?

160 tanks - well, we have already come to the conclusion that this is not much, but not a little. But in order to confidently talk about some milestones there in 5-7 years, it is worth really thinking a little more broadly.

And look at the warehouses. This is in order to really see and evaluate the prospect of the modernization that has begun, if there is one.

I will express my opinion that it has, if everything goes the way we think. Because the entire volume of T-90 tanks in the troops and at storage bases is today estimated at about 550 units.


160 units out of 550 available in the troops and at storage bases - this is a third.

That is, the very idea of ​​upgrading 160 vehicles will not have such a significant impact on the combat capabilities of our ground forces in general and tank forces in particular, however, if the rest of the T-90 is upgraded in subsequent years, plus the release of new tanks, as mentioned in the program - This is already a more serious situation.

Do not forget that as the modernized T-90M tanks enter the troops, crews will be trained for them, the technical base will be improved, and technical personnel will be retrained. And over time, with the arrival of only 100-150 new machines from the factories and the modernization of all T-90s available in warehouses and storage bases, we will be able to talk about 7-8 regiments fully equipped with T-90M tanks. That results in 3-4 tank brigades or 2 tank divisions.

But this is a very serious force, which can really greatly enhance the combat capabilities of Russian tank troops.

And not at the expense of the ceremonial “Almaty”, which, according to our modern principles, will be brought to mind for another 10 years, but at the expense of the tank, which showed itself perfectly in combat conditions. Not with us, unfortunately (or fortunately), but in the service in another state, but nevertheless, the T-90M is a real opportunity to strengthen our defenses. Yes, and offensive power, too, will not remain in the loser.

The main thing is that the program really works, and does not "shift to the right" for 15 years, as has often happened in our country recently.

The idea is quite decent, let's look at the execution.
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285 comments
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  1. +26
    20 February 2020 05: 53
    They are waiting for the promised after 2024. Russian realities today. The proverb has already been "corrected".
    1. +10
      20 February 2020 08: 40
      The main thing is that the program really works, and does not "shift to the right" for 15 years, as has often happened in our country recently.

      In order for our programs to work, you need to not only sell oil and gas .. and monitor the barrel every day .. Industry, electronics, pharmacology .. in general, in other words, the development of all vital industries must take place .. and yes. there will be a barrel expensive, will be made by 2024, it will be cheap, pushed to the right ..
    2. 0
      20 February 2020 10: 36
      At 31, the number "160" is not completely divisible.

      Over 160 tanks have been announced.
      It would be quite clear that there will be no “Almaty”,

      In 2020, the state tests of the Armata tank will end, and then the production of serial vehicles for military tests.
      1. +31
        20 February 2020 12: 34
        Quote: figvam
        In 2020, the state tests of the Armata tank will end, and then the production of serial vehicles for military tests.

        In 2020, we were promised 25 million qualified jobs and salaries in these places at $ 2.600. So what? Do you see the gopher?
        1. -20
          20 February 2020 13: 01
          Quote: Stroporez
          In 2020, we were promised 25 million skilled jobs.

          This was stated in peacetime, after the coup on the outskirts of Crimea and the beginning of sanctions and a hybrid war against Russia.
          1. +27
            20 February 2020 13: 14
            Quote: figvam
            This was stated in peacetime, after the coup on the outskirts of Crimea and the beginning of sanctions and a hybrid war against Russia.

            This is a twist!))) Comment of the day !!! wassat
            Do you comrade Figwam really believe what you wrote? Does this mean an increase in the retirement age, VAT, property taxes, you also explain, with the above facts? Then do not fool your head, declare martial law and general mobilization! or go to the doctor, it will be more logical, just before that remove the TV from your head, otherwise there will be relapses. hi
            1. -25
              20 February 2020 13: 27
              Quote: Stroporez
              Do you comrade Figwam really believe what you wrote?

              The fact that our economy is crushed by sanctions? Didn't you know that? I hope you already have a doctor.
              1. +26
                20 February 2020 13: 33
                Quote: figvam
                The fact that our economy is crushed by sanctions? Didn't you know that?

                we were hit by import substitution for sanctions. and where is import substitution?
                1. 0
                  20 February 2020 17: 53
                  https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/130553/
                  here they are .
              2. +13
                20 February 2020 13: 49
                Quote: figvam
                The fact that our economy is crushed by sanctions? Didn't you know that?

                The President clearly told you "the sanctions are in our favor" - this is the second, you have little idea of ​​what the sanctions are, against whom they are imposed
                1. -3
                  20 February 2020 14: 08
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  you have little idea what sanctions are, against whom they are imposed

                  What are you? I work at an enterprise that is under sanctions and in my own skin felt their effect both on wages and on equipment that was purchased in Europe, which was not available, first because of the jump in the dollar and euro in 2014 after the Crimea, then because of the sanctions that forbidden to buy it. We switched to Chinese, and this year some production equipment was purchased domestically, so it's not for me to tell you about the sanctions and against whom they are.
              3. +20
                20 February 2020 14: 22
                figvam (Sergey)

                The fact that our economy is crushed by sanctions? Didn't you know that? I hope you already have a doctor.

                When the Soviet Union was crushed by sanctions, you, as a citizen, as a worker / employee, how did you feel then on yourself, on the economy, on wages, on the state-guaranteed work / school place, these sanctions?
                What today is REALLY carried out on time (especially in spite of sanctions) ???
                1. +10
                  20 February 2020 15: 19
                  Quote: TANKISTONE
                  When the Soviet Union was crushed by sanctions,

                  The USSR was with its own closed economy, since 1991 Russia has been integrating at full speed into the western one, so it’s so easy to bite us.
                  1. +12
                    20 February 2020 16: 24
                    Since 1991, Russia has been integrating at full speed into the West, so it’s so easy to bite us.

                    By your logic, Russia can easily bite. He just doesn’t bite, because oil - gas - round timber can, albeit more expensively, be bought anywhere.
                    1. -5
                      20 February 2020 17: 22
                      Quote: vadsonen
                      By your logic, Russia can easily bite.

                      And you didn’t hear that sanctions hit each other and Europe lost hundreds of billions of dollars.
                      1. Alf
                        +8
                        20 February 2020 20: 35
                        Quote: figvam
                        And you didn’t hear that sanctions hit each other and Europe lost hundreds of billions of dollars.

                        But for some reason, in Europe, the standard of living of the population is not declining, unlike Russia.
                      2. -11
                        20 February 2020 22: 00
                        Quote: Alf
                        But for some reason, in Europe, the standard of living of the population is not declining, unlike Russia.

                        Due to sanctions, their profit is reduced. there is no expansion, growth and development, and we do not have investments, enterprises and jobs are not created.
                      3. -1
                        21 February 2020 08: 54
                        Quote: figvam
                        sanctions reduced profits because there is no expansion, growth and development,

                        For a country the size of Switzerland (in terms of foreign trade), you have too much self-conceit.
                      4. +1
                        22 February 2020 17: 18
                        you’ve definitely reviewed federal channels ..
                      5. -1
                        22 February 2020 22: 50
                        And you have heard enough of the radio "Echo of Moscow"!
                      6. Alf
                        +2
                        22 February 2020 23: 06
                        Quote: figvam
                        and we don’t have investments,

                        And why do we need investments if the money itself has so much that there’s nowhere to go?
                        Quote: figvam
                        enterprises and jobs are not created.

                        Are the sanctions also to blame? Or stupid domestic economic policies?
                      7. +2
                        24 February 2020 11: 02
                        You are wrong :: this policy is not economic, because it is formed NOT by economists, NOT financiers, NOT industrialists and NOT business executives, but by politicians who do not have a clue about the balance of productive forces with production relations :: otherwise - if you are planning a new modernized army and fleet and spend a lot of money on defense, first you need to take care of building such a life that you want to protect it ...
                        In the meantime, the interests of the oligarchs are protected, the people will live without a social system, without a pension, without education and without health until the state gains the rights to trade and manage resources, owns the fuel and energy complex and infrastructure, and lays down a progressive tax from the oligarchy , but will not blow bubbles, fighting off the desires of thieves to buy EVERYTHING !!
                      8. Alf
                        +1
                        24 February 2020 17: 43
                        Quote: hydrox
                        You're not right::

                        What am I talking about? That's what I’m talking about.
                        Quote: hydrox
                        while the state ... will not blow bubbles, fighting off the desires of thieves to buy EVERYTHING !!

                        What are you speaking about ? Our state just consists of oligarchs, and all these scandals that have come out show only that there is a struggle between the oligarchs themselves for a bold piece, but not a war between the state and bandits in haute couture costumes.
                      9. +1
                        24 February 2020 21: 06
                        False :: it does not consist of oligarchs, it consists of a population and power in the presence of the oligarchy, but power does not express the interests of the population, but of the oligarchs - hence all the friction and confusion between the authorities and the population.
                      10. -2
                        22 February 2020 22: 49
                        I would not say that it is declining. How did you define this? Are you short of money for the new Sony Playstation?
                      11. 0
                        22 February 2020 14: 48
                        figvam (Sergey)

                        And you didn’t hear that sanctions hit each other and Europe lost hundreds of billions of dollars.
                        Did the "first channel" zombie box announce this to you? Well, yes, and the number of millionaires in both Europe and Russia is increasing ... Interesting arithmetic turns out ...
                2. +15
                  20 February 2020 22: 25
                  Today, despite the sanctions in the Russian Federation, the number of dollar billionaires is REALLY and steadily increasing.
                  "According to a new presidential decree and a government plan, this year we will collect and release 10 brand new billionaires to London with 100% localized production" (c)
                  Source: Sdelanaunas.
                  1. +7
                    20 February 2020 22: 38
                    Quote: Malyuta
                    Today, despite the sanctions in the Russian Federation, the number of dollar billionaires is REALLY and steadily increasing

                    In mid-2018, there were 172 thousand millionaires in Russia. In 2019, the number of millionaires increased by 1.5 times and amounted to 246 thousand.
                    There were 2018 billionaires in 74, 2019 in 110!
                    At the same time, 49.4% of Russian families can afford to buy only food and clothing.
                    The population of Russia with an income below the subsistence level has become 18.6 million people! That is, 12% of Russia's population live below the poverty line!
                    These are the disappointing shifts in our economy.
                    https://www.kp.ru/daily/27049.3/4113913/
                    1. -3
                      21 February 2020 09: 42
                      Quote: Malyuta
                      Today, despite the sanctions in the Russian Federation, the number of dollar billionaires is REALLY and steadily increasing

                      Quote: Gene84
                      In mid-2018, there were 172 thousand millionaires in Russia. In 2019, the number of millionaires increased by 1.5 times

                      They just pulled money offshore)
                      1. Alf
                        +1
                        21 February 2020 19: 03
                        Quote: figvam
                        They just pulled money offshore)

                        And where did they put it? In the Russian economy?
          2. +3
            20 February 2020 13: 32
            Quote: figvam
            This was stated in peacetime.

            we have a kind of war with no one and is not yet in sight.
        2. -8
          20 February 2020 13: 09
          Who promised this?
      2. -4
        20 February 2020 15: 33
        In 2020, the state tests of the Armata tank will end, and then the production of serial vehicles for military tests.


        So, the program 12TV373 (code "Seagull") is closed. This means that the Armata tank does not have an engine and is not expected, this means that the tank will be delivered to the troops in the most defensive configuration - in the form of cozy small fortresses placed around the perimeter. The position of the driver is abolished, instead of him there will be an additional spy or charging minibar or, if the tank is declared profitable, the chair will be decorated as a sunbed.
        1. -4
          20 February 2020 15: 40
          Quote: Deck
          This means that the Armata tank does not have an engine and is not expected

          But what has he been driving for five years?
          1. Alf
            +3
            20 February 2020 20: 37
            Quote: figvam
            Quote: Deck
            This means that the Armata tank does not have an engine and is not expected

            But what has he been driving for five years?

            And how many Armats are released today? A hundred ? Two? One thousand ? On what is now, dviguny can be assembled and bypass technology.
            1. -1
              20 February 2020 22: 06
              Quote: Alf
              And how many Armats are released today? A hundred ? Two? One thousand ? On what is now, dviguny can be assembled and bypass technology.

              All released Armata drive A-85-3A engines with which they will go into series.
              1. Alf
                +2
                20 February 2020 22: 08
                Quote: figvam
                Quote: Alf
                And how many Armats are released today? A hundred ? Two? One thousand ? On what is now, dviguny can be assembled and bypass technology.

                All released Armata drive A-85-3A engines with which they will go into series.

                My favorite quote from one book is “God forbid,” said the intelligence chief, who does not believe in God or in hell.
        2. +5
          21 February 2020 15: 21
          Quote: Deck
          In 2020, the state tests of the Armata tank will end, and then the production of serial vehicles for military tests.


          So, the program 12TV373 (code "Seagull") is closed. This means that the Armata tank does not have an engine and is not expected, this means that the tank will be delivered to the troops in the most defensive configuration - in the form of cozy small fortresses placed around the perimeter. The position of the driver is abolished, instead of him there will be an additional spy or charging minibar or, if the tank is declared profitable, the chair will be decorated as a sunbed.

          It only means that one specific project is closed and does not mean anything else.
          1. -2
            21 February 2020 16: 56
            I don’t understand - did you leave the minibar?
      3. +1
        21 February 2020 15: 17
        Quote: figvam
        At 31, the number "160" is not completely divisible.

        Over 160 tanks have been announced.
        It would be quite clear that there will be no “Almaty”,

        In 2020, the state tests of the Armata tank will end, and then the production of serial vehicles for military tests.

        The author, as usual, in the absence of accurate data, tries to insert his versions. Until recently, the same experts, and maybe he including, argued that there would be no mass purchases of the Su-57 either. For them, it is always as if everything is clear. On the basis of these LIKE, the whole "analytics" is built.
        1. -1
          22 February 2020 23: 21
          It's just that people like him are guided by an impressionable and simple-minded public for fooling and raising from it the gravediggers of their homeland. Then all sorts of "human rights activists" and "public figures" take it into circulation for the sake of their political interests - for a comprehensive "fight against the regime." I often meet such agitators on the streets and in public places. The Internet, unlike TV or radio, is almost not controlled by any censorship - that's why they use it. Now, wherever you can go - everywhere in the comments and in the articles, all sorts of marginal people under the guise of "fighters for justice" are trying to propagate neo-Stalinism and "fight" pathetically. Even on gaming sites there is a place for such personalities. Here, in principle, most of the commentators are made up of such activists - they will now give me minuses and give me a bed.
  2. +16
    20 February 2020 06: 00
    With the current socially - predatory, tax - pressing and Western - oriented mining - raw material policy of Putin and his Putinists, which led to the closure or ruin of many OUR enterprises, both civil and defense, I am afraid that we would not have to withdraw from warehouses "well ... very deep storage" and put into operation BT-7 and T-34.

    What kind of "Armata" is there with its "T-14".
    If only something ... No. recourse request
    1. +4
      20 February 2020 08: 18
      Quote: Brigadier
      the policies of Putin and his Putinists, which led to the closure or ruin of many of our enterprises

      Yeltsin and Gorbachev's merit is no less in the collapse and ruin, and first of all in the betrayal of the interests of the country! How does it happen that no one remembers this? Everyone blasphemes the existing government. , under the cheers of friends from overseas.
      1. +4
        20 February 2020 14: 53
        Is Putin a continuation of Yeltsin, or has no one been convinced of this yet?
      2. 0
        22 February 2020 23: 32
        They are simply trying to insinuate the president and thus get rid of him like a king on a chessboard - so that you can put in his place a protege or an extremely incompetent person. This is just their agitation. Already seen enough on the Internet.
    2. +5
      20 February 2020 08: 19
      As you lifted up, fasten an avatar with Stalin and lie, how everything is bad with us. It is time to return to really useful Soviet practices, for example, punitive psychiatry.
      1. +15
        20 February 2020 10: 46
        laughing
        In general, a medical fact6 American "Abrams" replaced their predecessors for 14 years. At the time of the decommissioning of the last M60s, M1A2s were already present in the troops.
        And this is in a country that did without Perestroika, and also "prints money" ©

        Everything is much more complicated than it seems to some.
        1. +6
          20 February 2020 12: 40
          Quote: Spade
          In general, a medical fact6 American "Abrams" replaced their predecessors for 14 years. At the time of the decommissioning of the last M60s, M1A2s were already present in the troops.

          Pomnitsa, the Marines even managed to fight in their M60s in the "Desert Storm". And in NG M60 they were kept right up to 1997.
          1. +13
            20 February 2020 13: 00
            It's just that the Narot misunderstands that modernization is a must. And 72's. and 80s and 90s. Regardless of whether "Armata" appears in the troops
            1. +5
              20 February 2020 14: 58
              Just narot misunderstands

              there will never be a clean tank battle: tank against tank
              that's why we create ACS and national defense centers for command and control
              everything in the complex
              tanks can also work: motorized guns with ATGM, BMP-3, BMP-2M, BM Chrysanthemum
              Mi-28, Ka-52, Mi-35 helicopters
              attack aircraft and bombers Su-25, Su-34, even fighters Su-35, Su-30
              MLRS Grad, Tornado, Hurricane, Tornado incl. remote mining
              Self-propelled guns Msta, Carnation, Acacia - from closed positions
              OTRK Iskander - cluster warheads with self-aiming elements as in MLRS
              so the T-14 is not in a hurry
              1. +7
                20 February 2020 15: 09
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                there will never be a clean tank battle: tank against tank

                That's not the point.
                Under Serdyukov, the mobility capabilities of the Moscow Defense Ministry were practically killed. And so, incense is breathable.
                And they need to be restored. Specifically for tanks, modernizing Soviet models.
                1. +1
                  20 February 2020 15: 21
                  I have provided a list above is not comic. and with those tanks that are, you can manage without stress, and leave enemies without teeth
                  OTRK Iskander at a distance of 500 km: 1 missile with a cassette warhead: 54 el. and there is no tank regiment - 40 tanks
                  MLRS Tornado-S will mine tank hazardous areas at ranges up to 300km.
                  1. Alf
                    +8
                    20 February 2020 20: 43
                    Quote: Romario_Argo
                    MLRS Tornado-S will mine tank hazardous areas at ranges up to 300km.

                    Have you heard anything about remote clearance systems?
                    Quote: Romario_Argo
                    OTRK Iskander at a distance of 500 km: 1 missile with a cassette warhead: 54 el. and there is no tank regiment - 40 tanks

                    I consider Iskander a very effective weapon. But! They also talked about the confrontation between helicopters and tanks, that one turntable at a time can send 12 tanks per colormet, theoretically. And here’s how it’s practically, when when approaching you everything starts shooting at which you can lift the barrel up ...
                    1. +1
                      21 February 2020 15: 58
                      Have you heard anything about remote clearance systems?

                      it all rests against the time (!) won 30 minutes - can become critical for the enemy
                      for example: as an option, an air strike of a Su-34 or Ka-52 link
                      And here’s how it’s practically, when upon approaching you everything starts to shoot at which you can lift the trunk up ...

                      here for such cases, there is intelligence of all levels from space to UAV platoon and DRG associated with the national defense center
                      for rapid decision-making
                      1. Alf
                        +3
                        21 February 2020 18: 51
                        Quote: Romario_Argo
                        here for such cases, there is intelligence of all levels from space to UAV platoon and DRG associated with the national defense center
                        for rapid decision making

                        And the enemy’s electronic warfare means, of course, will smoke bamboo?
                        I mean, in the exercises this is one thing, but in real life it is completely different.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2020 00: 16
                        Imagine that you are a real Lieutenant General not in the VO but in the General Staff - operational duty in the nat. center of defense. Why are you writing me bullshit here?
                        turn on the brain and think for yourself. and then guesses the options here. everything is already written
                  2. +5
                    21 February 2020 15: 49
                    Quote: Romario_Argo
                    I have provided a list above is not comic. and with those tanks that are, you can manage without stress, and leave enemies without teeth
                    OTRK Iskander at a distance of 500 km: 1 missile with a cassette warhead: 54 el. and there is no tank regiment - 40 tanks
                    MLRS Tornado-S will mine tank hazardous areas at ranges up to 300km.

                    "Tornado-S" with a range of 120 km will mine directions at a distance of up to 300 km. I am also a patriot, but within reasonable limits.
                    1. +1
                      21 February 2020 16: 02
                      To blame.
                      the text quickly typed and mixed up with a caliber of 300 mm, and a range of 120 km.
                      1. +2
                        21 February 2020 17: 58
                        but I thought I missed something
        2. +2
          21 February 2020 11: 49
          New armor is not very necessary for mattresses. For the entire LAN, where they use it, modernization will also work. On the territory of the states, databases are unlikely, in geyrop will cost cash abrashes.
      2. +7
        20 February 2020 11: 12
        The voice of one crying in the wilderness ...
        The most interesting thing is that all these comrades in 1990-1991 sat in the kitchens and crap on the hump and the Communist Party, then happily waved flags with shouts of URA-Freedom ... And none of them today says why they did not take weapons and did not defend the Soviet power in general, or the State Emergency Committee in particular ... To any question about this, everyone has the same answer - "I am not me, my priest is not mine."
      3. +6
        20 February 2020 12: 45
        Quote: EvilLion
        As you lifted up, fasten an avatar with Stalin and lie, how everything is bad with us.

        But you were bullied by constantly lying, how good and similar we are, as they rightly pointed out here, become like skakuas from the neighboring square. You jump in favor of the same bourgeois, only under different slogans. Continue to ride further until in bottom of resonance ecstasy you break through the bottom, if it is not already broken.
        1. -2
          22 February 2020 11: 53
          Yes, we are almost doing well. Not perfect - but good. Compared to the same 90s and early 2000s - heaven and earth. Life has improved. And what if a person plows not for his uncle or does not twist the nuts at the factory, but has his own business - then he immediately becomes a criminal, becomes a bourgeois? And we "jump" as they put it for the whole society as a whole, and not for those who strive to "take away from those who have - and divide among themselves" (as thieves divide the common fund)! You yourself are not with nezalezhnoy?
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. 0
        22 February 2020 11: 46
        Quote: EvilLion
        As you lifted up, fasten an avatar with Stalin and lie, how everything is bad with us. It is time to return to really useful Soviet practices, for example, punitive psychiatry.

        This is just the current trend, originating from the war in Syria and the coup in Ukraine - and ever since we intervened in all this and defend our interests. It's just that someone decided that since “colored” revolutions are not being rolled out in our country, it means that we must try the “socialist” one. Note - as soon as we really got things going, as soon as we got on our feet, all these "fighters against the regime" immediately got out again, but with a socialist veneer.
        PS - I will laugh wildly if it turns out that they have built up the pluses for you, naively believing that even the saying doesn’t apply to them!
    3. +5
      20 February 2020 09: 49
      and put into operation BT-7 and T-34

      T-34s are already being actively assembled around the world. Probably under the program of deep modernization. there will be uninhabited modules to put and joysticks for remote control from Chinese models. laughing
      1. 0
        24 February 2020 09: 30
        T-34s are already being actively assembled around the world. Probably under the program of deep modernization. there will be uninhabited modules to put and joysticks for remote control from Chinese models.

        You will not believe this has already been practiced ... though a long time ago and in another country ... they buried a tower in a caponier, changed the gun to an automatic gun and installed a BIUS. This was done on objects of special regime value. It worked in automatic mode, was removed from duty either from the desk of the duty calculation, or by the light code. In particular, it guarded a couple of interesting objects in the Zhangiztobe area.
    4. Alf
      +4
      20 February 2020 20: 38
      Quote: Brigadier
      put in operation BT-7 and T-34.

      But they are not afraid of blocking the Internet and using electronic warfare, because they have electronics like in brick. laughing
  3. sen
    +22
    20 February 2020 06: 06
    The main guns and fire control systems for the T-14M, borrowed from the T-90, will be produced in much larger quantities, which will ultimately reduce the cost of the "Armata" and switch to its production.
    1. +8
      20 February 2020 11: 29
      The T-90M has an inhabited tower, which means the gun with the T-14 cannot be placed on the T-90. It will be necessary to install an ejector. And, read out will change the characteristics of the gun. Let the experts send me away, if that.
      1. sen
        +2
        20 February 2020 14: 52
        2A82-1M - a modified version of 2A82 for installation in tanks of the T-14 type [4] and in the deeply modernized T-90M

        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2А82
    2. -1
      21 February 2020 11: 10
      The T-90M needs a working KAZ with mandatory coverage of the upper hemisphere.
  4. +7
    20 February 2020 06: 10
    You know, in the course of armature, you will not see it as a tank in the next decade (not in quantity or generation) It is more like an exhibition. Again, a tank is just a metal box with protection i.e. , it is covered with anything to withstand more direct hits. The concept of using the tank does not change. The terminator would not have supplemented it badly, especially Syria showed that somewhere with a cannon it’s good to build buildings, and somewhere with an automatic gun (make Swiss cheese). Again, Syria has shown that very often the tank is thrown into reconnaissance. I think it’s it’s not right ... Here low-flying drones would have been well smoothed, for combing a building with good optics (you can add something else) ..but .. this is still fantastic, since the electronic industry is lame in our country ..
    1. +5
      20 February 2020 11: 59
      Quote: ximkim
      He is more like a show

      as we say, not an exhibition, but an object for testing technologies and subsequent modernization ...
  5. +4
    20 February 2020 06: 26
    if there’s nothing to do with the fittings, and it’s the same thing, and the next entom breakthrough expects from the word in no way at all, then let them completely modernize what is in working condition at the moment, and don’t disgrace anymore with their braggings about new samples , you first make and give a circulation, and then boasted, otherwise it does not look comme il faut from the word at all
  6. +18
    20 February 2020 06: 39
    160 tanks is nothing at all for a tank power, at such a pace we reach the neighbors with their Bastion.
    1. +7
      20 February 2020 06: 45
      but there is still such a whole partner Turkey, eastern Europe, they also have tanks. Friend and sly brother China.
      1. +2
        20 February 2020 07: 06
        Yes, it will not be enough! recourse It would be necessary to add an order. feel
        1. Alf
          +4
          20 February 2020 20: 46
          Quote: bessmertniy
          Yes, it will not be enough! recourse It would be necessary to add an order. feel

          Where is the money, Zin? laughing
          1. +8
            20 February 2020 22: 33
            The money in the cases for the cellos, Elvira hpiizadovna, in musar apartments, well, a little bit at Abramovich.
            TSSSSS! Vladimir Vladimirich knows nothing about this.
    2. +12
      20 February 2020 07: 55
      Well I do not know. Here recently we rode with relatives of acquaintances (who already live in Germany for 3 generations) to the cottage in the bathhouse / barbecue, it turned out past the site where the T-72 was in storage. Citizens were impressed. They say: “That's why they are afraid and blame you in Europe.” I told them: - This is all against Iranian missiles. Neighing.
  7. -7
    20 February 2020 06: 42
    Um ... outwardly, very similar to the Chinese tank ZTZ-99 .....
  8. +1
    20 February 2020 06: 46
    Promises !! ??? no increase in retirement age, 25000 jobs, but instead amendments to the constitution
    1. -3
      20 February 2020 09: 26
      Quote: Lamata
      instead, amendments not needed to the constitution

      Please announce what unnecessary? Everything is normal, it was high time to change. Especially the section on the abolition of dual citizenship!
      1. 0
        20 February 2020 10: 48
        You will carefully study the regulatory framework about citizenship. and then broadcast.
      2. Alf
        +2
        20 February 2020 20: 48
        Quote: astronom1973n
        Please announce what unnecessary? Everything is normal, it was high time to change.

        Especially about the immunity of the ex-president. And Someone immediately said that the fundamental aspects of the constitution are not subject to revision.
        1. +8
          20 February 2020 23: 08
          Quote: Alf
          And Someone immediately said that the fundamental aspects of the constitution are not subject to revision.

          Nah, he said "the one who proposes to change the constitution needs to change his head"
        2. -1
          21 February 2020 05: 26
          Quote: Alf
          Especially about the immunity of the ex-president.

          And what confuses you in this? How do you want a circus in Ukraine? When one president is being tried, another is getting ready? And the rabid crowd throws people into the trash bin, like "luster". Is this necessary? But the effect at the exit is zero! And the amendments concern not only this moment, there is much more volume. And then they snatched one and let's exaggerate. Apparently, only this question worries you most of all.
          1. +3
            21 February 2020 09: 00
            Quote: astronom1973n
            Do you want a circus in Ukraine? When one president is judged, another is prepared?

            Yes. But why is it necessary for Ukraine? How can the same thing be done in South Korea?
    2. -5
      20 February 2020 12: 02
      Now the liberal will throw you cons))))))
      1. +6
        20 February 2020 12: 14
        Bye, so here they minus me at night)))) I’ve already been chitoli 6 times)))))))))))))))) Minus from the couch, without specific arguments against.
        1. 0
          20 February 2020 12: 17
          there are such))))
          1. +5
            20 February 2020 12: 22
            In general, I came In someone))))))))))))))
            1. -1
              20 February 2020 13: 17
              to the money))))
              1. -2
                20 February 2020 14: 49
                As they say: If you want you to dream about money all the time, go to the Censor more often.
                It’s a pity that it doesn’t come true, now I would go hahala between the Forbes list laughing
                1. -5
                  20 February 2020 14: 53
                  censor blocked long ago
                  1. 0
                    20 February 2020 14: 58
                    Then all the more sorry. Here I can’t get rich, so cheek on the seeds except from the beginning trolls smile
                    1. +1
                      20 February 2020 16: 55
                      You on business, on business say that you delve into the little things.
  9. -3
    20 February 2020 06: 46
    Like pilots - a beautiful plane and flies well. For me, Armata is a freak.
    1. +1
      20 February 2020 07: 59
      For me it’s so, Armata is a freak ..... there is such a thing, all would be nothing but the tower is really awkward. both aesthetically and practically, huge openings and attachments are just asking for a land mine kg so this is 24 from which no afghanite will save
      1. +11
        20 February 2020 23: 15
        Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
        For me, Armata is a freak ..... there is such a thing, all would be nothing, but the tower is really awkward

        For taste and color, we also have the president of the sekas, according to the polls, as the symbol of the year.
  10. +7
    20 February 2020 07: 09
    In general, the t-90m is a strange machine, initially everything seemed to look good and the fodder was loading and a new gun from armata, and everything seems to be finally resolved the problem with the length of the shells. But no, they refused to load the fodder, they didn’t put a new gun ... And then the question arises, but what's the point then in the new tower?
    1. +4
      20 February 2020 09: 31
      Yes, here the meaning is ordinary. Slogans and a TV show about unparalleled. And the troops will go without a new gun, without a new AZ, without new elongated BPS, without KAZ, and certainly control levers, and not like a flashy with a helm ... It's a waste of money, like with the T-72B3 .. . They know perfectly well that there will be no armata and it’s wrong to drive old stuff with slogans into the troops ..
    2. +2
      20 February 2020 15: 56
      Quote: stepka_razin
      and a feeding device, loading and a new gun from Almaty,

      Where does the information about the "feed loader" come from?
      During modernization, the combat experience of using the T-72 was taken into account. When breaking through the armor to a fatal outcome most often, led to an additional ammunition tank. Not the one in the combat unit, but the additional warheads that were shipped around the fighting compartment, where the place allowed. These additional ones were removed from the combat. But the military insisted that the carrying ammunition should be the same. So there was an additional ammunition outside the tower (of course, covered with armor). This is the T-90MS.
      The T-90M - it is unclear, the roofing felts are the same as the T-90MS, or the air conditioner, as in the diagram




      And which gun will stand, depends on the Defense Ministry: if they don’t spare the money, then 2A82, and if they regret it, then the usual one.
      1. +4
        21 February 2020 04: 36
        Where does the information about the "feed loader" come from?

        From there, that initially there was a module "barge haulers" which exactly corresponded to the concept, but the project was successfully curtailed in 2009, for the good old reason - "there is no money"
        After 10 years, on the other hand, we get the 90th, with a huge tower, but absolutely pointless, because the automatic loader is the same, it can’t take long shells, manual loading of a gun on a tank with 3 people is fantastic. Naturally, in these situations, it makes no sense to put a cannon from an armata designed for a long projectile.
        Transferring the storage location of additional ammunition is generally such a thing, I do not remember that at least somewhere additional ammunition was transported outside the machine. To reload which is still pleasure, but during the battle the pleasure is unreal

        As a result, we get the t-90m which in 5 years will have to be re-upgraded and put in the feed machine and a new gun, which will result in a pretty penny. Okay, there’s no armata, but can you upgrade it wisely?
        1. +1
          21 February 2020 12: 58
          Quote: stepka_razin
          From there that originally was the "barge haulers" module

          ROC "Burlak". Such a design was worked out (as well as a lot of others) but did not meet expectations, the topic was closed. It has nothing to do with the modernization of the T-90M.



          Quote: stepka_razin
          he cannot take long shells,

          The new automatic loader (put on all upgraded tanks) works with shells up to 740 mm long.
  11. -2
    20 February 2020 07: 16
    Armata, initially, a demonstrator of a promising direction. I think to send him to the troops and were not going to. This is how it was with the "Dragon". Most likely something cheaper and more deadly is weakening on its base. Although it seems that there is again a division in terms of the tonnage of cars and in the future return of heavy assault tanks
  12. +3
    20 February 2020 07: 30
    The main thing is that the Armat systems would migrate to the T90m ... gun, KAZ, optics, communications, etc.
  13. +10
    20 February 2020 07: 36
    And not at the expense of the ceremonial “Almaty”, which, according to our modern principles, will be brought to mind for another 10 years,

    Suppose it’s not a parade, but it is necessary to bring to mind the tank itself and everything else, starting with the production of everything necessary for it.
    There is a TANK that can solve all the problems that exist and may arise in the foreseeable future, it’s ready, production has been completed !!! then it will be so.
    The next generation of technology to bring to mind, prepare production and .......
    1. +2
      20 February 2020 14: 52
      Quote: rocket757
      The next generation of technology to bring to mind, prepare production and .......

      namely, what everyone wants to get Armata as quickly as possible - the probable opponents do not have much new ...
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 15: 04
        Quote: ser56
        probable opponents do not have much new ...

        So it is, in the foreseeable future is not visible either.
        Moreover, anti-tank, all sorts of different things, everyone has more and more!
        Those. if you do something, then taking into account the saturation of the infantry and aviation with anti-tank systems ... otherwise, it will really be "firewood" for eleven minutes of battle.
        1. +1
          20 February 2020 15: 13
          Quote: rocket757
          Moreover, anti-tank, all sorts of different things, everyone has more and more!

          namely, and tanks are becoming more and more expensive ... it seems that a dead end is brewing, as with dreadnoughts ... request
          1. +1
            20 February 2020 17: 47
            I am always interested in the prospects for increasing the power supply of military equipment!
            We need compact, reliable, POWERFUL power plants, with high efficiency! Because both weapons and protection of objects / equipment will depend on this indicator!
            It seems to me that way, but there we will see how it will be.
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 17: 57
              Quote: rocket757
              Because both weapons and protection of objects / equipment will depend on this indicator!

              Well, how much does a tank engine weigh? about 1t ... let the specific characteristics increase by half - it will be 0,5t .... Will you increase your protection strongly?
              The problem is the concept ... in my opinion, the MBT concept is largely outdated - it’s hard to expect massive tank battles - there simply aren’t as many tanks in service in developed countries!
              If there is a rapid development of active defense, then BOPS and missiles will begin to go astray on the way, then the reservation level can be reduced to the level against MZA. request
              1. -1
                20 February 2020 18: 11
                Quote: ser56
                How much does a tank engine weigh? about 1t ... let the specific characteristics increase by half - it will be 0,5t .... Will you increase your protection strongly?

                Not that, these are reflections on perspective. For the next ten years, we may not wait for something fundamentally breakthrough, and then there will be someone who can predict how and where everything will go or rush off. The current design solutions and technologies are close to their maximum, so what are waiting for!
                1. +1
                  21 February 2020 11: 33
                  Quote: rocket757
                  and then there, who can predict how and where everything will go or rush off.

                  the laws of physics cannot be refuted ... request
                  1. +1
                    21 February 2020 12: 03
                    If we do not know something, this does not mean that this does not and will not happen.
                    Humanity, science does not stand still.
                    1. +2
                      21 February 2020 12: 06
                      Quote: rocket757
                      If we do not know something, this does not mean that this does not and will not happen.
                      Humanity, science does not stand still.

                      it is difficult to argue with commonplace, I wrote about something else - there are no real ways to significantly increase the efficiency of ICE!
                      1. 0
                        21 February 2020 12: 21
                        Quote: ser56
                        there are no real ways to significantly increase the efficiency of ICE!

                        I love ACCURACY, plus you!
                        I already wrote that devices based on well-known physical principles have reached / are reaching the limits of their improvement. ICE has existed for a century and a half, this is the term. GTE is half a century less, but also a significant period ... we do not consider steam.
                        The question is, where can we expect a breakthrough in the field of creating the best power plants in terms of parameters? I dont know. We are waiting with.
          2. Alf
            +2
            20 February 2020 20: 52
            Quote: ser56
            it seems like a dead end is brewing, as with dreadnoughts ...

            It’s just that no country can fight without tanks, the main striking force, it doesn’t work.
            Imagine the situation. Tomorrow all the tanks were canceled and their parts seized. What's next ? How to fight? Like in 1MB, walking along the battlefield?
            1. +1
              21 February 2020 11: 32
              Quote: Alf
              It’s just that no country can fight without tanks, the main striking force, it doesn’t work.

              there are different tanks, now the absolutization of MBT, which was created for certain conditions that are no longer ...
              Quote: Alf
              How to fight? Like in 1MB, walking along the battlefield?

              there are already robots!
              1. Alf
                0
                21 February 2020 18: 53
                Quote: ser56
                there are already robots!

                Can they replace tanks? Give an example of such robots.
      2. +1
        21 February 2020 08: 59
        But they already have new tools, communications and optics on their old tanks and began to put KAZ .... And all this is not worse than on Armata.
  14. +2
    20 February 2020 07: 50
    Along with the improvement of the "classic" combat qualities, work is underway (and not only in the Russian Federation) to modernize it for use in the network-centric combat field. Armata as it was positioned by the core (replaceable!) So it continues to be brought in this flow. And I am modernizing the T-90 so that Armata will have someone to manage and with whom to interact, for the future. The network concept with one network-centric object does not work - you need partners, slaves, redundant nodes to delegate authority, etc. In the T-72, all this is futile, but the T-90 has been tested, proven to be effective and amenable to planned upgrades. In general, "We cheer for ours!"
    1. 0
      21 February 2020 09: 01
      Why? There are a lot of them in warehouses ..... like the T80x and T-64x ... throw it away? it’s logical to use them in the troops, export them ... but for this you need to upgrade them. And in terms of high availability, supply the T90M with all the goodies.
  15. +3
    20 February 2020 07: 52
    If you compare with "partners" and neighbors with new tanks, then, not enough. Fact. But if we hypothetically assume that no conflict ... Then, I think, neither Armata nor T 90 will work. They will get seventy two, eighty and aegei from storage!
    1. +3
      20 February 2020 08: 47
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      They will get from storage seventy deuces, eighty and egegei!

      The main thing is that during storage on them the full regulations are followed and not "robbed". Somehow at the end of the 80s my (I started serving as a lieutenant) regiment was deployed to full staff. A perceptible part of the equipment was not able to "go to the area" in time. But we were preparing for a month ... laughing
    2. 5-9
      -1
      20 February 2020 14: 46
      It remains to find neighbors with "new tanks" ..... formally, only China has them
  16. +2
    20 February 2020 08: 16
    "Do not forget that as the upgraded T-90M tanks enter the troops, crews will be trained for them, the technical base will be improved, and the technical staff will be retrained."
    Thanks to Serdyukov, we have almost no such "base". And Shoigu is in no hurry to train crews and retrain technical staff. CONCLUSION: The author gives the desired as valid.
  17. -1
    20 February 2020 08: 20
    The fact is that there is no new weapon for the "Armata" yet, the old one, 125mm, is clearly not suitable for it.
    1. 0
      20 February 2020 08: 46
      The most interesting thing is that at the time of the beginning of the creation of "Armata" there was a weapon (as much as 2) and an engine and a short circuit, etc., etc., but as a result it turned out. that "nothing is not".
      It seems to me that in fact there is a stupid butting with the "accounting", hence all these tricks, the price is simply not satisfied with the "chief accountant".
    2. 0
      20 February 2020 12: 04
      Quote: bistrov.
      until there is a new gun, old, 125mm

      for what the "partners" now have or will have in the near future, it is quite enough.
      1. 0
        21 February 2020 09: 05
        Quote: PSih2097
        now the "partners" have or will have enough of it in the near future.

        Seriously? On board you want to try, like the T-34-76 Panther?
        1. 0
          21 February 2020 16: 09
          Quote: Octopus
          Seriously? On board you want to try, like the T-34-76 Panther?

          Sorry, the VUS is not the same ... And what's new in tank shells and RPGs with ATGMs from NATO, the same Germans are just starting to think about 140mm guns, about KAZ this is not for me, the same "Arena" for some reason does not suit the Ministry of Defense with from the time of Storetkin, and "Afghanit" -
          it is intended only for new types of equipment built on the Armata, Kurganets-25, etc. platforms Tanks of the T-72, T-80 or T-90 families, most likely, will not receive such equipment. At the same time, the existing equipment will remain in service, for which purpose it will undergo modernization. Current projects for updating armored vehicles, currently being implemented or planned for the near future, do not provide for equipping tanks with active defense systems. Fighting vehicles will have to rely on their own armor, dynamic protection of modern types and mounted screens of one kind or another.
          https://topwar.ru/141936-kaz-arena-put-v-voyska-ili-put-v-tupik.html
          .
          1. +1
            21 February 2020 16: 18
            Quote: PSih2097
            what's new in tank shells and RPGs with anti-tank systems at NATO

            Well, actually there is a well-founded opinion that the T-90s are not armored against modern crowbars and mantle-blowers. And it's kind of like consensus. But the enemy, especially with KAZ, is very well armored.
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 16: 28
              Well, "Arena-M", there is "Relic" - put it, but here we start accounting ...
              I myself went on the BMP-2/3, and the BTR-70/80 so that
              On board you want to try, like the T-34-76 Panther

              It would be like Panther and BT-7 / T-26 ...
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      20 February 2020 13: 03
      In my opinion, it is necessary to transfer the entire SV tank fleet to the T-90, and the DS and MP to the T-72 (of course the latest modifications). T-80 (latest modifications) to the Arctic units and formations. Everything else in the mob. reserve. Well, cut Armata. 10 years is a very real time for fine-tuning, running-in and the start of serial production.
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 13: 16
        Quote: achtung
        need to transfer the entire tank fleet of SV to T-9

        The T-90 is simply not enough. The troops have only five battalions on the T-90 + one Abkhazian in Syria. There are only 200 T-90A per circle. The tank battalion of the 7th military base in Abkhazia is armed with the "newest" T-72B3 tanks, and the "old" Abkhaz T-90 tanks in the resorts of the Syrian Arab Republic in full force. T-72B3 remains the main tank in the army, about 1000 of them have been modernized.
        Quote from rudolf
        In my amateurish opinion, first of all, it is necessary to change the units to these machines that are designed to operate in isolation from the main forces and in which each machine has a special account. Tank companies of the marine corps and air assault brigades.

        The marine corps, in my opinion, has limitations, they have the same T-80BVM with rubber-fabric screens. I can assume that the decision to refuse additional protection for the sides and stern on the marine tanks is conscious due to the possible weight and overall restrictions imposed by the requirements for the operation of tanks in the marine corps.

        1. 0
          20 February 2020 22: 21
          I'm not talking about replacing everything with the T-90 at once, but gradually. As you upgrade and release new cars. Declared about 900 T-90M. Moscow, too, was not built immediately, the main concept, desire and money!
  19. -4
    20 February 2020 08: 54
    As I understand it, not so long ago as the MBT adopted the T72 and sawed the money for its modernization, although it was already in service with the T90.
    1. +5
      20 February 2020 12: 58
      Quote: Finn
      As I understand it, not so long ago as the MBT adopted the T72 and sawed the money for its modernization, although it was already in service with the T90.

      So the T-72 was not needed take as MBT - In fact, it was MBT, the most massive tank in our BTV.

      In general, at the time of the decision to modernize the T-72, the situation was as follows: in the troops, the main tank was the T-72A or B from the Soviet era. Someone had a T-62 and even a T-55AM. About 2000-2500 tanks required urgent replacement or modernization, which has not been again since the days of the USSR.
      New T-90s were purchased at 63 vehicles per year, and UVZ regularly raised prices in line with the increase in the military budget. The last time the plant raised the price of a tank by as much as 70%, after which the Commander-in-Chief of the SV Postnikov said in his hearts that it was cheaper to buy "Leo".
      Changing tanks at a rate of 63 vehicles a year meant killing armored vehicles, leaving only horseless tankers in them. A tank was needed that would be better than the T-72A or B, and at the same time could be produced in quantities sufficient for the massive rearmament of armored vehicles. We chose a "tank for 52 million" - T-72B3, which UVZ could make 150-200 vehicles a year. And when the main "tank hunger" was satisfied (the troops received more than a thousand T-72B3), the armored vehicles began to consider and purchase more advanced MBT versions.
  20. +2
    20 February 2020 08: 59
    As if already quite it is clear that “Almaty” will not be

    What a twist.
    Tell me, will there be a SU-57? Or the next upgrade of the SU-35 instead?
  21. +2
    20 February 2020 09: 01
    So, in the framework of the rearmament program, the new T-90M plans to equip 4 tank battalions in motorized rifle regiments.
    The calculation is not correct. Whether you like it or not, some of the tanks must be given to the Academy, military schools and training units. So, 4 TB SMEs will quickly "melt" into 4 TB TB
  22. -3
    20 February 2020 09: 06
    Article plus. Now this is a completely adequate analysis of the situation. Even with a little too much skepticism regarding Armat, in my opinion. The novel writes about 10 years of refinement, but now there are about a hundred in the T-14 troops, as I understand it. It is for fine-tuning. Therefore, I think 10 is a somewhat overstated term. I am waiting for Armata in service after 3-4 years. However, time will tell.
    1. +2
      20 February 2020 11: 14
      Now a very interesting trend is underway. They cut off new developments, cut off the purchase of new equipment. Moreover, it is not yet clear where this money is being redistributed, although all sorts of social programs have been announced. It seems that somewhere someone is now accumulating "crazy" money. There are also occasional reports of new privatization. If the redistribution of property now proceeds, then there will be no saturation of the army with new equipment (Armata, SU-57, etc.). They will buy a test batch and this is all over.
      1. +3
        20 February 2020 11: 55
        Quote: spectr
        Moreover, it is not yet clear where this money is being redistributed, although all sorts of social programs have been announced.


        In the sense of "not visible". The budget of national projects is 26 trillion. rub. plus new social initiatives of Putin. Only the expansion of the actions of the financial capital - more than 500 billion. And there are also breakfasts, and benefits for children under 7 years old. These are gigantic amounts.
        All this money has already gone into the economy. I don't know why you "can't see".
        1. +2
          20 February 2020 12: 01
          Quote: Arkon
          And there are also breakfasts and benefits for children under 7 years old.

          You carefully read what the president said, not immediately, but gradually, not in all regions, but wherever possible.
          I personally inform you that free hot meals for high school children were introduced in Finland in 1943 !!!!
          1. +3
            20 February 2020 12: 09
            Quote: Stroporez
            I personally inform you that free hot meals for high school children were introduced in Finland in 1943 !!!!


            So what? But in Germany and the United States there is still no. Why compare geopolitical dwarfs with imperial Russia?
            Whatever you do, everything is bad. That is your character. wink
            1. +4
              20 February 2020 12: 27
              Quote: Arkon
              You have such a character

              Let's leave my character alone, this is irrelevant.
              And to tell you the truth, this government has done nothing good for me or for my family, except to constantly peek into my pockets, give it to me, give it to it, pay it there, pay it with syud. We ourselves achieved everything, not thanks, but in spite of.
              And let them keep their handouts for the future, and we’ll just calculate them, as in the Tyumen region 5 rubles per child per day.
              If you now stretch the accordion about mat capital, you can immediately blow it away, since 450 rubles. a mat of capital for a child for life = the monthly salary of a state-sponsored non-impregnable deputy, about s / n millers, better than sessile, sectarian, it’s better to keep silent, nerves will come in handy.
              Quote: Arkon
              Why compare geopolitical dwarfs with imperial Russia?

              You correctly noticed it, only dwarfs have neither oil, nor gas and diamonds either. And the Russian Federation at the moment is not an empire, but is just its stump, inherited during the dismemberment of the body of the empire itself.
              Continue to ride further for handouts from the authorities and pancakes with a shovel, although she did not ask you to give birth to children. hi
              1. -3
                20 February 2020 12: 31
                Quote: Stroporez
                If you now stretch the accordion about mat capital, you can immediately blow it away, since 450 rubles. a mat of capital for a child for life = the monthly salary of a state-sponsored non-impregnable deputy, about s / n millers, better than sessile, sectarian, it’s better to keep silent, nerves will come in handy.


                Well, keep silent to yourself. What are you worried about? laughing

                And I got it for my people and they were definitely not superfluous to me. The fact remains: there is no such support for motherhood and childhood as in Russia nowhere in the world.
                I do not envy the deputies - the rich also cry. laughing

                If you do not understand this, then you will not understand. hi
                1. +3
                  20 February 2020 12: 59
                  Quote: Arkon
                  Arkon (Andrey)
                  I'm not nervous, buddy, and I’ve heard the world laughing
                  At the expense of the lack of support for motherhood and childhood in the world, you mmm ...., to say the least, you are mistaken. And your slogans, it’s better for you to shout out a thread at meetings, they will appreciate laughing
                  Well, if he got a mat. Capital, then well done, with a black sheep even a wool of tufts good
                2. +3
                  20 February 2020 14: 39
                  Quote: Arkon
                  I don’t envy the deputies - the rich also cry.

                  You can see on the eponymous series rose laughing Tied to television, it dries the brain ..
                  The fact remains: there is no such support for motherhood and childhood as in Russia nowhere in the world.

                  Emirates - for the birth of a child, the state pays an amount from $ 50 to $ 000, plus to this, if you need a house, you get a house.
                  and then read it yourself and convert it to rubles ..
                  https://www.baby.ru/journal/detskie-posobiya-v-raznyh-stranah-mira/
                  1. 0
                    20 February 2020 15: 19
                    Quote: Svarog
                    Emirates - for the birth of a child, the state pays an amount from $ 50 to $ 000, plus to this, if you need a house, you get a house.
                    and then read it yourself and convert it to rubles ..


                    Weli! laughing
                    Similarly, we are in second place after the Emirates. And it will not be difficult for you to compare Russia with more developed countries: Germany, France, Italy, the USA, for example. And it is also desirable to see a comparison of the powerful industry of the Emirates, which they probably built for all these fabulous incomes that they received from oil. I'd like to hear about the mighty Emirate energy, engineering, chemical, automobile and shipbuilding industries. About emirate electronics and emirate space. About the Emirate military-industrial complex.

                    How is it going there? Are they spent on all these areas? Enlighten me if it's not hard. And then I sit at the TV, watch "The rich also cry" - I can not tear myself away. There is now a very heartbreaking moment begins.
                    1. +4
                      20 February 2020 15: 30
                      Weli! laughing
                      Similarly, we are in second place after the Emirates.

                      You are not careful again ..
                      Didn’t they pay attention to Canada? 533,33 CAD = 25446,88 rubles. per month for each minor child under the age of 6 years. Multiply by 6 years, we get = 1 833 552
                      Russia with more developed countries: Germany, France, Italy, USA

                      Are we a more developed country? What do we produce under the brand Made in Russia? Well, except for oil and weapons ..
                      I really want to hear about the powerful Emirate energy, engineering, chemical, automobile and shipbuilding industries. About emirate electronics and emirate space. About the Emirate military-industrial complex.

                      And I want to hear about Russian .. are we so far from the Emirates now .. But even in this case, the Emirates find more money to support the birth rate ..
                      About the Emirate military-industrial complex.

                      The USSR left a good reserve. There is something to be proud of, and what is modern Russia proud of?
                      How many can you remember the outstanding citizens of Russia .. surnames? And in the USSR there were a lot of them ..
                      1. -4
                        20 February 2020 16: 01
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Are we a more developed country? What do we produce under the brand Made in Russia? Well, except for oil and weapons ..


                        And, well, that is, you are at this level of understanding of the development of Russian industry ... I see no reason to list here a couple of hundred thousand items of what we are "still producing". But, in order to at least roughly outline the circle, I will say that Russia is one of the five countries producing energy turbines, one of the four countries producing modern turbojet engines, Russia is the only one in the world that produces serial nuclear reactors of the 3+ generation and is the only one in the world that has an operating FRL. Russia is among the top ten countries that have their own universal processors and among the three countries that have created quantum computers. Yes, and about the military-industrial complex, which you so dismissively mentioned - we have the "best" military-industrial complex in the world. It's just a fact. wink

                        Quote: Svarog
                        The USSR left a good reserve. There is something to be proud of, and what is modern Russia proud of?


                        Well, our current industrialists and scientists believe that the backlog of the USSR has long been exhausted. But they are mistaken, for sure. Give evidence of your words.

                        Quote: Svarog
                        You are not careful again ..
                        Didn’t they pay attention to Canada? 533,33 CAD = 25446,88 rubles. per month for each minor child under the age of 6 years. Multiply by 6 years, we get = 1 833 552


                        In Canada there is no free medicine, with sick children it is a decent expense. I do not know how in Canada with summer camps and various circles. With us, they are either either free or heavily subsidized. It is necessary to compare in detail. But, in any case, Russia is in the lead.
                      2. +3
                        20 February 2020 16: 21
                        I see no reason to list a couple here
                        hundreds of thousands of items
                        what we are "still releasing".

                        laughing good a couple of hundred thousand .. well you gave the heat ..
                        then Russia is one of the five countries producing energy turbines

                        Are you talking about Siemens?
                        the four countries producing modern turbojet engines, Russia is the only one in the world that produces serial 3+ generation nuclear reactors and the only one in the world that has an existing RBN.

                        Actually, this can be finished .. The scientific thought of the USSR was strong ..
                        universal universal processors and the top three countries that have created quantum computers.

                        Someone saw them? Or are they in a piece?
                        Yes, and about the military-industrial complex, which you so dismissively mentioned - we have the "best" military-industrial complex in the world. It's just a fact. wink

                        About the Emirate military-industrial complex.

                        The USSR left a good reserve. There is something to be proud of, and something to be proud of

                        Where is the neglect here? The USSR left a good start, is it chtol?
                        In Canada, there is no free medicine, with sick children it's a decent expense

                        Do we have free medicine? What do you not deduct compulsory medical insurance? And for free we only have a therapist ..
                        In terms of per capita income, Canada is in 22nd place, Russia is in 73th .. probably there you can do without benefits at all .. But they pay and pay more than ours ...
                        So what leaders do you have Russia in general is not clear ..
                      3. -2
                        20 February 2020 16: 45
                        Quote: Svarog
                        a couple of hundred thousand .. well you gave the heat ..

                        Quote: Svarog
                        Are you talking about Siemens?


                        Power turbines are made by Siemens, Alstom, Jal, Mitsubishi and we.

                        Quote: Svarog
                        Actually, this can be finished .. The scientific thought of the USSR was strong ..

                        Quote: Svarog
                        Someone saw them? Or are they in a piece?

                        Quote: Svarog
                        Do we have free medicine? What do you not deduct compulsory medical insurance? And for free we only have a therapist ..

                        About insurance I fundamentally agree.

                        The remaining replicas do not require a response. hi
                      4. Alf
                        +3
                        20 February 2020 21: 08
                        Quote: Arkon
                        There is no free medicine in Canada

                        So in fact we don’t have it either.
                        To the specialist free of charge, in turn, after two to three months. For money ? Wait half an hour.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        with sick children is a decent expense.

                        And when the amounts for treatment on TV are voiced, how is it? A penny?
                      5. +2
                        21 February 2020 10: 06
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Russia is one of the five countries producing energy turbines

                        Are you talking about Saturn’s torment? Did you hear about the Siemens scandal in Crimea?
                        Quote: Arkon
                        producing modern turbojet engines,

                        Which one is modern? What engines are on the superjet, God forgive me, and the MC-21?
                        Quote: Arkon
                        generation 3+ serial nuclear reactors and the only one in the world that has an existing RBN.

                        It is only a pity that this good is taken only with a surcharge from the Russian budget.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Russia is in the top ten countries with its own universal processors

                        It's fine. Who does not know about Russian processors.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        created quantum computers

                        Read less press releases.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        us the "best in the world" military industrial complex

                        Actually, no.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        the backlog of the USSR has long been exhausted

                        Yes. The reserve has been exhausted, but there is no new.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Canada does not have free medicine, with sick children it is a decent expense.

                        Nothing free in nature exists. In Canada, insurance medicine. OMS and VHI. As in Russia, I recall. Well, that is, according to the financing scheme as in Russia, and not by quality.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        I don’t know how in Canada with summer camps and various circles

                        Differently.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        either significantly subsidized

                        You're lying. By best of all, by subsidy is meant a free premise. Municipal premises. Municipalities are not a state. Not yet.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Russia is in the lead.

                        Among the countries of Africa.
                      6. +1
                        21 February 2020 13: 05
                        Quote: Octopus
                        You're lying. By best of all, by subsidy is meant a free premise. Municipal premises. Municipalities are not a state. Not yet.


                        My friend, all my children went and still go to free circles and sections. Not all mugs and sections are free, but there are a lot of free ones. Tell your children about "munts" - they will believe you (but in vain). All of these circles are funded from taxes that were collected from citizens. Our tax collection function is federal. The distribution of these taxes between the local and federal levels is the tenth thing.

                        Take your words back. I beg.
                      7. +1
                        21 February 2020 16: 20
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Take your words back. I beg.

                        Are you talking about the word "lying"? I may be wrong, but you present it as a kind of government service. If so, there is nothing to take away. Unless you replace it with "you are wrong" in view of the presumption of innocence.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        financed from taxes that were collected from citizens. We have a federal tax collection function

                        You, by the hour, do not enter the working group on deliveries to the constitution? Your ideas about munitions are quite in trend.
                        But so far the changes have not passed.
                        In the Russian Federation, local government is recognized and guaranteed. Local self-government within its powers independently. Local authorities are not included in the system of state authorities
                      8. +1
                        21 February 2020 18: 59
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Are you talking about the word "lying"?

                        I’m talking about him.

                        Quote: Octopus
                        but you submit it as a kind of public service.

                        I do not serve you. I directly said that in Russia summer camps and various kinds of clubs are either free or heavily subsidized. Dot. Where is the lie here?
                        Take your words back.
                      9. 0
                        21 February 2020 20: 20
                        You said the following:
                        Quote: Arkon
                        In Canada there is no free medicine, with sick children it is a decent expense. I do not know how in Canada with summer camps and various circles. With us, they are either either free or heavily subsidized. It is necessary to compare in detail. But, in any case, Russia is in the lead.

                        Or you do not know that camps and circles are not supported the state(except for Moscow, St. Petersburg and Sevastopol, where the city budget is state), and then you are mistaken.
                        Or you know it, but at the same time mention circles at the level of countryas if this is some kind of service provided Russian child, not Moscow or barnaul (Naturally, these are two different services). Then you lie. Moreover, your remarks, in aggregate, leave the impression that you are trying to pass Russia off as a social state, Unlike Of Canada. Be so kind as to express your thoughts about this directly.

                        And you are right about Canada, cruel place. For example, a Canadian baby collects a sick mom on the street for medicine.
                      10. +1
                        21 February 2020 20: 23
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Or you do not know that camps and circles are not supported by the state

                        I wrote about free circles in Russia. They exist en masse. The third and last time I say: take the words back.
                      11. +1
                        21 February 2020 21: 01
                        I love when people of your plan stand in the pose of an offended nobility. Let's follow the syllables.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        There is no free medicine in Canada

                        You're lying. In your understanding, free medicine, that is, state medicine, - Yes in Canada and no in Russia. In Canada, a budget model for financing medicine is used (provincial budget + federal leveling subsidies), funded through taxes. In Russia - an insurance model funded through the compulsory medical insurance system. That is, the health insurance service is not provided to you by the state, but by your employer.
                        By the way, I was wrong.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        In Canada, insurance medicine. OMS and VHI

                        This is not so, I'm sorry.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        I don’t know how in Canada with summer camps and various circles

                        Differently.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        With us they are either either free or heavily subsidized.

                        In order to refute your statement, I must find in Russia one circle that is not subsidized. To search?
                        Quote: Arkon
                        It is necessary to compare in detail.

                        Exactly.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        Anyway, Russia is in the lead.

                        If you were talking about "leaders among the CIS countries" - then it’s true, although again it is necessary to compare in detail. But you mentioned it in the context of Canada. It's a lie. Find the structure of expenses of the consolidated budget of Russia and Canada and tell us about the welfare state again.
                        Well, as a sign of goodwill.
                        Quote: Arkon
                        wrote about free circles in Russia. They exist en masse

                        They really exist, I will not say for mass. If I refuted this your statement, I would have taken my words back.
                      12. +1
                        21 February 2020 22: 22
                        Oh yes. I forgot about the presumption of innocence again. In the post above take away the words "lie" and "lie" and insert, say, "you are mistaken" and, I do not know, "incorrect construction of the phrase." Suppose you are in good faith mistaken.
                      13. 0
                        23 February 2020 12: 56
                        Quote: Octopus
                        In the post above, I take away the words "lying" and "lie"

                        Thank you.
                        Now let's debate. smile

                        If you were talking about "leaders among the CIS countries" - then it’s true, although again it is necessary to compare in detail. But you mentioned it in the context of Canada. It's a lie. Find the structure of expenses of the consolidated budget of Russia and Canada and tell us about the welfare state again.


                        I mentioned the support of family and childhood in Russia not in the context of Canada, but in the context of the whole world. Here are family support measures in Russia:
                        - capital for the first child
                        - surcharge for the second child
                        - partial repayment of mortgages for the third
                        - land for the third
                        - Paying a living wage for a child up to seven years old monthly
                        - free secondary education
                        - many free sections and circles
                        - subsidized or free summer camps
                        - the availability of free budget places in universities and their current quantitative increase

                        Can you list at least five countries where the situation is better?
                      14. +1
                        23 February 2020 13: 19
                        No, this is impossible to discuss.
                      15. 0
                        23 February 2020 16: 25
                        Fine. Then I will answer for you: you cannot find five such countries. Therefore, Russia is one of the world leaders in supporting family and childhood.

                        Now let's deal with the "Munitions".
                        By best of all, by subsidy is meant a free premise. Municipal premises. Municipalities are not a state. Not yet.


                        We are not talking about whether or not municipalities are a state - although if you want, we will debate on this topic as well - we are talking about financing various programs. Municipal entities have at their disposal the funds that federal law leaves them. That is, the higher authorities decide which part of the taxes to leave in the municipality, and which to transfer to the center. Municipalities are not the subject of these relations - they only execute decisions of higher structures. If parents gave the child money, this does not mean that he became the subject of monetary relations. He is completely dependent on his parents. So, all the money that goes into subsidizing education is fully state money.
                      16. The comment was deleted.
                      17. Alf
                        +2
                        20 February 2020 21: 04
                        Quote: Svarog
                        How many can you remember the outstanding citizens of Russia .. surnames?

                        Sechin, Miller, Potanin, Deripaska, Vekselberg, Abramovich ... well and further on Forbes. laughing
                    2. +6
                      20 February 2020 15: 48
                      Quote: Arkon
                      Arkon (Andrey)

                      You are in vain about "Rich ...", go to see "Santa Barbara" laughing "
                      Emirates I recommend you for a trip, come and tell us, compare experiences good But not an economy. opportunities, the desert is there, but the loot from oil is stably distributed by the population of the population and it is allocated for the birth of a child. Look at what they do to the oil tanks, and what do we do?
                      1. -1
                        20 February 2020 16: 48
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        You are in vain about "Rich ...", go to see "Santa Barbara" "


                        Thank you for your advice, be sure to look. May be. But I believe you, as a specialist in this matter. laughing

                        I don’t watch the video - do not convey in words what the Emirates are building there? Or talking is not your thing? wink
                3. Alf
                  +1
                  20 February 2020 21: 02
                  Quote: Arkon
                  And I got it for my people and they were definitely not superfluous to me.

                  Please explain how, in the absence of this allowance in the totalitarian scoop, children were born and raised?
                  1. 0
                    20 February 2020 21: 28
                    Quote: Alf
                    Please explain how, in the absence of this allowance in the totalitarian scoop, children were born and raised?


                    I didn't understand what the connection was. Children were "born and raised" throughout the history of human civilization. It is not related to benefits. Is it you who decided to rise so high, like making a joke on your opponent? Kindergarten...
                    1. Alf
                      +1
                      20 February 2020 21: 46
                      Quote: Arkon
                      I do not understand what the connection is.

                      I explain for those who are on an armored train.
                      Matkapital is presented by the authorities as the greatest achievement, without which the demography of Russia would be either zero or negative. Therefore, I asked the question, how, without this "great deed", the population gave birth to children and the population of the Union grew. And now, with Achievement, for some reason it dies out.
                      1. -1
                        21 February 2020 12: 57
                        Quote: Alf
                        Matkapital is served by power as the greatest achievement,


                        Matcapital is just mat. Capital. If you don’t need this help, then millions of families need it. Do not be selfish.
                        And what about population growth - you will decide: either you want to live "like in Europe" - and then negative population growth, typical for all wealthy countries - or a return to the hungry post-war years and significant population growth, typical for all low-income countries.
                        And then you lose your logic for your desire to hinder the power. wink
                      2. Alf
                        0
                        21 February 2020 18: 56
                        Quote: Arkon
                        If you don’t need this help, then millions of families need it.

                        But what about before, in the era of the seven kings, they did without mother capital? Did the children grow up hungry and barefoot? Or didn’t you see the toys? And the population of the USSR was growing.
              2. 0
                20 February 2020 15: 11
                Stroporez I will subscribe to every word we live not thanks to and contrary to!
                1. +1
                  20 February 2020 15: 24
                  Quote: tech3030
                  tech3030 (Eugene)

                  Kamrad, thanks for the support! soldier drinks
            2. +2
              21 February 2020 09: 43
              Quote: Arkon
              Germany and the USA still no

              Seriously?
              Quote: Arkon
              Why compare geopolitical dwarfs with imperial Russia?

              Do you want to compare with dashing 90s?
          2. +2
            20 February 2020 12: 51
            Quote: Stroporez
            Free hot meals for high school children were introduced in Finland in 1943 !!!!

            And in our country, Ivan the Terrible introduced free primary education.
            Incidentally, the uniform form in the army (for the first time in the world) was introduced precisely under it.
          3. +3
            20 February 2020 13: 04
            Quote: Stroporez
            hot food for high school children was introduced in Finland in 1943 !!!!

            And in the USSR, parents paid. Reinforced concrete.
            1. +3
              20 February 2020 13: 27
              Quote: Spade
              And in the USSR, parents paid. Reinforced concrete.

              20 kopecks breakfast, 35 kopecks lunch. For breakfast every week everyone handed over money to the class teacher, but lunch was already a personal matter - they paid themselves, whoever wants to.
              A sand ring with nuts cost 22 kopecks in the school buffet - abidna, and. smile
              1. 0
                20 February 2020 15: 55
                Quote: Alexey RA
                A sand ring with nuts cost 22 kopecks in the school buffet - abidna, and.

                Belyash -17 kopecks, pie with jam -5 kopecks, korzhik-8 kopecks, cake 12-kopecks, eclair-18 kopecks, tea 2-kopecks, milk was free! good drinks
                1. +1
                  20 February 2020 16: 14
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Belyash -17 kopecks, pie with jam -5 kopecks, cake-8 kopecks,

                  A glass of plum juice 8 kopecks., Apple - 10 kopecks., Apricot - 12 kopecks.
                  And on canned food, the selling price of canned food was printed on a label at the factory.
                  1. +4
                    20 February 2020 19: 51
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    And on canned food, the selling price of canned food was printed on a label at the factory.

                    * tediously clarifies: Three prices - by price zones.
                  2. Alf
                    +4
                    20 February 2020 21: 11
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    And on canned food, the selling price of canned food was printed on a label at the factory.

            2. 0
              20 February 2020 15: 51
              Quote: Spade
              And in the USSR, parents paid. Reinforced concrete.

              I do not argue, 1 rubles 20 kopecks per week, which was 20 kopecks per day !!!!!
              1. +1
                20 February 2020 15: 57
                Quote: Stroporez
                Quote: Spade
                And in the USSR, parents paid. Reinforced concrete.

                I do not argue, 1 rubles 20 kopecks per week, which was 20 kopecks per day !!!!!

                And do not remember how many rubles parents earned in a week?
                1. +4
                  20 February 2020 16: 13
                  Quote: SaltY
                  And do not remember how many rubles parents earned in a week?

                  In terms of the week, mom -35 rubles, dad-55 rubles, grandmother 18 rubles. The monthly rent along with those. and el.en about 4 rubles for a three-ruble note.
              2. +1
                20 February 2020 16: 09
                Quote: Stroporez
                I do not argue, 1 rubles 20 kopecks per week, which was 20 kopecks per day !!!!!

                A backward country compared to Finland in 1943 ...
                1. +3
                  20 February 2020 16: 19
                  Quote: Spade
                  A backward country compared to Finland in 1943 ...

                  Do not scuffle. Baby food in dairy kitchens was completely free and a lot of things were either completely free or worth a penny, for example, in 1991, I bought a ruble for my daughter's sandals and shoes! And now the children of the Urals have been given a handout in the amount of 5 rubles per day for food !!! Is it funny to you? And my fists are clenching.
        2. 0
          20 February 2020 17: 19
          Budgets are good. Only in some cases can you see the effectiveness of their use.
          For example, one of the national projects "Science". One of his tasks is to build a normal education system in the country. And now we drive into a search engine about finding a job as a teacher and see what "interesting" salaries schools offer teachers.
          It is unlikely that the poor teachers are eager to raise their education in the country, and judging by their salaries, money is either not allocated or is not reaching.
          And not to allocate is very simple. It is enough to create such a list of requirements to provide these amounts that 90% of educational institutions will not fulfill them. And in the end it turns out that on paper it seems like everyone worked, and the output is zero. And most importantly, a budget surplus.
        3. Alf
          +3
          20 February 2020 20: 59
          Quote: Arkon
          All this money has already gone into the economy.

          And how much did it get? To the place, and not to the personal accounts of the performer?
          1. Alf
            +1
            21 February 2020 18: 58
            Quote: Alf
            Quote: Arkon
            All this money has already gone into the economy.

            And how much did it get? To the place, and not to the personal accounts of the performer?

            So someone got caught again. For all my comments I walked and minus everywhere, I did not even believe in the minted price.
    2. Alf
      +3
      20 February 2020 20: 56
      Quote: Arkon
      about now in the T-14 troops of the order of hundreds

      Lope, lope? Where do the firewood come from, in the sense of infa?
  23. +1
    20 February 2020 09: 15
    T-72 is a tank of the middle of the last century, no matter how you try to upgrade it, it will not become modern. Alas. And we’ll finish on that topic of an imminent armored hero (an anniversary is just 50 in Latin).

    Abrams is also a mid-century tank and how much you don’t upgrade
    it will not become modern
    . And what can NATO oppose to us for the same tanks. Never mind. Even against the T-72M3.
  24. +6
    20 February 2020 09: 19
    If we assume that all around are evil wolves, then 160 tanks in the troops out of 550 in warehouses are not enough.

    And if we assume that "evil wolves" are only for the common people in the trenches, and the elita buys hacienda over the hill from the "wolves" and takes billions of dollars to the "evil bastards", and different favorite oligarchs whose residents are not clear - then just right.

    And the flag was demonstrated, and money was saved, and there will be enough for 2 more such terms of promises - that is, 20 years ahead ...

    All right.
  25. +4
    20 February 2020 09: 37
    As everyone already got tired of sobbing around Armata ... Well, they would rivet Armat and get: a crude tank, without spare parts, without a maintenance base, without trained officers capable of operating and servicing them .. And in the end, the same rake as with the T-64 .. .
    1. +4
      20 February 2020 11: 55
      Quote: vnord
      As everyone already got tired of sobbing around Armata ... Well, they would rivet Armat and get: a crude tank, without spare parts, without a maintenance base, without trained officers capable of operating and servicing them .. And in the end, the same rake as with the T-64 .. .

      Why then had to constantly lie about 2015 and 2020?
      1. 0
        23 February 2020 01: 15
        Well, as far as I know, information related to the quantity, delivery time, locations and other things is somewhat secret in order to accurately disclose it through the media. Well, it is not intended for civilians. As a result, the Internet is full of rumors and fiction.
    2. 0
      23 February 2020 01: 16
      The same sobs at one time were with regard to the T-90 - that the tank was not needed at all, that it was created to cut the budget, that it would not be produced. From the moment of its development and the start of production of large batches, then by the way a very respectable time passed - no less than a decade for sure.
  26. +2
    20 February 2020 09: 43
    T-72 is a tank of the middle of the last century, no matter how you try to upgrade it, it will not become modern

    T-72B3 meet the requirements for a modern model. The personal opinion of the sofa specialists like "yes, this is your old T-72B3" did not resist to anyone
    1. Alf
      +1
      20 February 2020 21: 14
      Quote: Hermit21
      T-72B3 satisfy the requirements for a modern model.

      And why then did the T-90?
      1. The comment was deleted.
  27. +6
    20 February 2020 10: 27
    I read the article and remembered a joke about how 28 tanks wanted to shove 7 pieces in 13 mouths.
    and so we will wait and see how the next promise will fail. I don’t believe these plans for a long time, well, according to the T-90M, it’s still possible, because we already have about the promised number of them, so if we upgrade the entire fleet and plus new ones, it may be fulfilled, but there are big doubts. The author indicated: "The T-72 is a tank from the middle of the last century, no matter how much you try to modernize it, it will not become modern. Alas. And we will finish on that topic of an early armored bearer (anniversary is just 50 in Latin).

    But the potential of the T-90 is not something that is not fully disclosed, today we can confidently say from the experience of working with the T-72: they have not even approached the middle. Therefore, the beginning of modernization will be a very, very significant step. "



    the author is generally aware that the T-90 is a deep modernization of the T-72 ?????

  28. +4
    20 February 2020 10: 27
    "As if it is already quite clear that there will be no" Armata ", and the T-72, although it is a B3 (and even a B3m), but still a T-72, no matter what Yuri Borisov says. This is a tank, which, alas , almost (and with development and completely) fifty years. "
    Why is it clear? This is a big secret of the author .... I suspect that the author is hiding under the pseudonym Shoigu, otherwise such a passionate confidence is simply inexplicable ....
    Threat Russian fools can hypersound and Armata? Not to life! Right?
    PS but another informed person (Putin) claims:

    "By 2027, the army will receive at least 900 new tanks, including 500 T-14 vehicles created on the Armata platform. State tests are planned for 2020, and if they are completed successfully, the tanks will go to the troops."
    So who is lying? I think I know ....
    1. +2
      20 February 2020 10: 59
      Quote: Oleg1
      So who is lying? I think I know ....

      all lie! and the Guarantor as well. Of course, for the most part, through no fault of their own, but you can dig on the Internet and find a dozen of his enemies, that it is only worth "we will not raise the retirement age", "we have no time to build up", about the fight against corruption and about prices for petrol?!
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 11: 50
        Quote: evgenii67

        they all lie! and the Guarantor as well. Of course, for the most part it’s not my fault,

        Is it the fault of the people? wassat
        1. +2
          20 February 2020 12: 50
          Well, if we say that the authorities are all kinds of officials from the "people", then yes.
          1. +4
            20 February 2020 13: 24
            Quote: evgenii67
            Well, if we say that the authorities are all kinds of officials from the "people", then yes.

            Comrade, you wrote everything correctly. I disagree only with the thesis "through no fault of my own" .., but by my own intent. It’s me who loves it laughing drinks
    2. -1
      20 February 2020 11: 52
      Quote: Oleg1
      but another informed person (Putin) claims:

      "By 2027, the army will receive at least 900 new tanks, including 500 T-14 vehicles created on the Armata platform. State tests are planned for 2020, and if they are completed successfully, the tanks will go to the troops."
      So who is lying? I think I know ....

      By 2027, Putin will no longer be president, so in the long run after 2024 you can lie as much as you like for any reason.
      1. 0
        21 February 2020 10: 15
        Quote: Stroporez
        2027 Putin will no longer be president

        Why do you think so? And who will be?
        Quote: Stroporez
        run after 2024 you can lie as much as you like for any reason.

        As if until 2024 it’s hard to lie. What programs were supposed to finish there in 2020?
    3. Alf
      +1
      20 February 2020 21: 15
      Quote: Oleg1
      but another informed person (Putin) claims:

      While I am president, there will be no increase.
      Quote: Oleg1
      and if they succeed,

      A very significant amendment ...
  29. 0
    20 February 2020 11: 00
    A typical example of the work of modern management in Russia: we spend billions on development, try out several years of samples, then we buy several units for parades on Red Square and launch a new multi-billion dollar development program that has no analogues in the world, because the previous one did not satisfy with something MO. The money has been spent and there is something to show to the people on TV, and the army has not yet demolished Soviet pants.
    1. -1
      20 February 2020 11: 45
      Just because a good manager is not called a manager. Feed from any financial flow. What does the impact on the development? In Soviet times, the development of bundles under the cloth left, often remaining only on paper. And now we bring out the light of day and begin to sob on lost years. Do you propose wearing Soviet trousers until the farm begins to shine through the holes?
  30. +1
    20 February 2020 11: 09
    Quote: Engineer
    A typical example of the work of modern management in Russia: we spend billions on development, try out several years of samples, then we buy several units for parades on Red Square and launch a new multi-billion dollar development program that has no analogues in the world, because the previous one did not satisfy with something MO. The money has been spent and there is something to show to the people on TV, and the army has not yet demolished Soviet pants.


    Are you all at home? new equipment it was still necessary to finish it. State tests are planned for 2020, and if they complete successfully, the tanks will go to the troops.
    Oh, these all-crawlers ....
    1. -1
      20 February 2020 13: 14
      Are you all at home? new equipment it was still necessary to finish it. State trials are planned for 2020,
      and what equipment was shown at the Parade in 15? Well, I’m just wondering why to demonstrate the equipment in 15 years, and after 5 years, still demonstrate it and claim that it is new, needs to be improved, so you need to wait a bit with adoption?
    2. Alf
      0
      20 February 2020 21: 18
      Quote: Oleg1
      State tests are planned for 2020, and if they complete successfully, the tanks will go to the troops.

      "By 2020, 2000 Armata platforms will be delivered to the troops." WILL BE DELIVERED, AND DO NOT START TESTING - very big difference.
  31. +4
    20 February 2020 11: 14
    I have nothing against the modernization and construction of the new T-90MS, I'm only for..Any increase in the combat capabilities of the tank is in the army’s favor, fear of the enemies and this is not discussed .. If we talk about the T-72, then with this approach the NATO tanks can be called obsolete ... For example, Abrams has been developed since 1971, in production since 1980. The T-72 has been developed since 1967, and has been in production since 1973 ... If we talk about the realities, the modernization turned these tanks into actually new machines and it makes no sense to compare the T-72 Urals of the 1973 model with the 72 T-1989BM tank, there common only similar name ...
  32. +3
    20 February 2020 12: 00
    In my opinion, the T-14 is currently an excess tank, but it is not very cheap. The variant with the T-90M is quite justified both from the point of view of the military-political situation and from the point of view of socio-economic. The budget is not rubber, in addition, the social consciousness of society is progressing in the Russian Federation. Those. the state should not forget about its obligations to the population not only in protecting it, but also in education, health care, culture, etc. Given the armament of the Airborne Forces with the T-72B3 tanks, and the Marine Corps with the T-80BV tanks, the decision on the T-90M is absolutely correct.
    1. Alf
      +1
      20 February 2020 21: 20
      Quote: Pecheneg
      Those. the state should not forget about its obligations to the population ... but also about education, health care, culture, etc.

      And what is it doing now, and very successfully?
  33. +2
    20 February 2020 12: 03
    Quote: Arkon
    Article plus. Now this is a completely adequate analysis of the situation. Even with a little too much skepticism regarding Armat, in my opinion. The novel writes about 10 years of refinement, but now there are about a hundred in the T-14 troops, as I understand it. It is for fine-tuning. Therefore, I think 10 is a somewhat overstated term. I am waiting for Armata in service after 3-4 years. However, time will tell.

    Are you sure there are hundreds of T-14 troops? Strongly doubt that a few dozen typed.
  34. exo
    +2
    20 February 2020 12: 18
    T-90 M, a good option.
    The trouble with Armata was that, not having appeared in the army, she provoked NATO to seriously modernize its tank fleet. It would be better if they didn’t shine before being put into series.
    1. 0
      20 February 2020 12: 40
      The modernization of NATO's tank fleet began based on the experience of the wars in the Middle East, so the changes mainly affected mine protection, airborne anti-cumulative armor and surveillance equipment. What does "armata" have to do with it?
  35. 0
    20 February 2020 12: 43
    If the new tank does not provide radical advantages in comparison with existing vehicles, then of course it makes more sense to modernize what is already there.
  36. 0
    20 February 2020 13: 02
    It's time to switch to new weapons. Although still raw, but new, it is necessary to build a T-14 and combat vehicles on its base, after several years of operation, to modernize, taking into account practical realities ...... The T-90 is a decent machine, but it is a tank of the last century ... . time to move forward, and for this we need a completely new base and a new concept .....
  37. -1
    20 February 2020 13: 03
    In general, the T-72 can also be upgraded, the gun can be strengthened so that the crowbar is thicker and the gunpowder is hotter, hung up on the muzzle brake and integrated into the FCS of the remote fuse programmer, compact autopilot automation can be installed, the suspension allows hanging up to ten tons without special troubles if necessary any protection. The car is especially good at storing them like dirt, the demand for this tank can be maintained even before the centennial, since the author remembered Latin, then in this dead language false means the truth.
  38. +2
    20 February 2020 13: 03
    Quote: Stroporez
    Quote: Oleg1
    but another informed person (Putin) claims:

    "By 2027, the army will receive at least 900 new tanks, including 500 T-14 vehicles created on the Armata platform. State tests are planned for 2020, and if they are completed successfully, the tanks will go to the troops."
    So who is lying? I think I know ....

    By 2027, Putin will no longer be president, so in the long run after 2024 you can lie as much as you like for any reason.

    Do you have everything at home again? From 2020, tanks will go to the troops .... then by 2024 there will already be a significant number of them.
    How do you want to make a mess of the country, look do not overwork ....
    1. Alf
      +1
      20 February 2020 21: 21
      Quote: Oleg1
      From 2020, tanks will go to the troops .... then by 2024 there will already be a significant number of them.

      GO and WILL- in modern Russia are very different concepts.
  39. -2
    20 February 2020 13: 22
    Even 900 tanks is a lot. So much is not needed.
    1. +1
      20 February 2020 13: 59
      Comrade Shoigu? Sorry did not recognize.
      Threat the number of aircraft and the composition of the armament will determine the military-political leadership of the country in accordance with the existing threats but not couch experts.
      Threat we all have a peace treaty especially with the peace-loving US? Old, you can’t buy it anymore.
      1. -1
        20 February 2020 14: 14
        Comrade Shoigu also receives a salary from my taxes. And as one of the banquet sponsors I say - a lot.
        1. -1
          20 February 2020 16: 27
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          Comrade Shoigu also receives a salary from my taxes. And as one of the banquet sponsors I say - a lot.


          Even if you are one of the sponsors of the banquet, this does not mean your qualifications. Announce it: - when did you graduate from the General Staff Academy? The rank of lieutenant general, colonel general? Well, the last announce your sources of information, you are probably admitted to the information owls. secret on the matter? If not, your opinion is negligible as any couch expert ....
        2. Alf
          0
          20 February 2020 21: 23
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          Comrade Shoigu also receives a salary from my taxes. And as one of the banquet sponsors I say - a lot.

          And the army is large, hundreds of thousands will be enough. But the National Guard is pumping it. Incidentally, the furniture marshal did just that, and said that many airfields are expensive, and they need to be reduced to FOUR, it’s cheaper.
  40. -1
    20 February 2020 14: 21
    NUS will see.
  41. 5-9
    -1
    20 February 2020 14: 55
    I did not understand about the "old T-72" ... T-90 honestly should have been called T-72U :)
    The appearance of the T-90M kraz shows that there are reserves for modernization .... but the "partners" do not seem to have, they ran into the weight restrictions of the platform for a long time.
  42. -1
    20 February 2020 15: 24
    But can I talk about the Indian experience in more detail?
  43. -1
    20 February 2020 15: 28
    enlighten the amateur what is the global advantage of Almaty over Lecler + kaz, just do not mock but seriously explain)
    1. Alf
      +3
      20 February 2020 21: 25
      Quote: Tonya
      enlighten the amateur what is the global advantage of Almaty over Lecler + kaz, just do not mock but seriously explain)

      An uninhabited tower means that you can twist a more powerful gun and protect the crew more reliably in the new armored capsule.
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 21: 43
        I understand that the tool is now at the level of the best analogues, it’s clear with the capsule, but the advantage right now is over the Leclerc, because it seems to me that there is nothing besides the capsule, that is, the overwhelming advantage is in question
        1. Alf
          +1
          20 February 2020 21: 50
          Isn't a capsule an overwhelming advantage? If there wasn’t a big advantage, would different French-Germans rush to plan a new tank together, because Leopard and Leclerc are not gifts either?
          1. +1
            20 February 2020 21: 51
            it is more a shield than a sword)
        2. +1
          21 February 2020 16: 05
          Quote: Tonya
          ...... and the advantage right now over the Leclerc

          Leclerc is one of the most expensive (if not the most expensive) tank in the European theater. Too full of electronics, which in peacetime does not work very well. The power plant consists of a diesel engine, the boost of air to which is provided by a gas turbine engine. The generator stands on a gas turbine engine and the turbine can operate without a diesel engine. Diesel without a turbine does not work. Power turbines on kerosene, diesel, by itself, on diesel fuel.
          I won’t say anything about its armor protection, but these nylon bottles under the tower cover (like in a nightstand), something is not very similar to additional protection.
          1. 0
            21 February 2020 17: 05
            evil tongues say that for him there is a finished 140 mm gun, and his 18 computers help him mark and keep a decent number of targets, and it seems that the new European tank that will be developed will be based on the leclerc and leopard.
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 23: 02
              Quote: Tonya
              the European tank that will be developed will be based on the leclerc and leopard.

  44. +2
    20 February 2020 17: 01
    It’s strange that upgrading the T72 is bad, but upgrading the abrams is good, they started to release it the same way yesterday.
  45. 0
    20 February 2020 17: 38
    And where are the guarantees that it will not work out the same way as with Armata? Here it’s not the tank model that needs to be changed, but the figures who engage in chatter instead of work.
  46. +1
    20 February 2020 20: 47
    [quote] It would be quite clear that “Almaty” will not be / quote]

    Less than 5-7 years have passed to recognize what was clear even then.
  47. -1
    20 February 2020 20: 54
    The main thing is that with all these endless modernizations, upgrades, we do not one fine day in the same puddle as our space sat down with SpaceX. How much was invested in Armata and there was a real chance to break out on the head in the development of tanks ahead of competitors - and silence. I hope all this will not go to waste ..
  48. 0
    20 February 2020 21: 11
    Defective managers pushed, pushed, and again got offended.
  49. -3
    20 February 2020 22: 59
    Good evening everyone!
    It is necessary to develop on the basis of Almaty - the 9th heavy-armored skating rink platform "Muromets" and on the basis of it the tank "Ilya Muromets" with a 152-mm gun in 2030.
    Tower based on the Black Eagle + T-100-140.
    A crew of 3 people is placed in front in a very ultra-protected capsule, the crew’s place allows you to comfortably fight in any weather and climate conditions and allows the crew weighing up to 150 kg to sit down without constraint.
    The uninhabited tower has the ability to launch guided missiles through the barrel, has a radio photon locator for scanning and detecting enemy mechanized targets up to 10-30 km.
    The tank is equipped with a 7.62 mm machine gun mount paired with a 30 mm cannon for firing air targets.
    The tower of the new tank has guided grenade launchers and means of setting aerosol and smoke screens.
    Dynamic armor is made of heavy-duty carbide boron armor ceramics, significantly improved by carbon nanotubes, and composites.
    Plus active protection afghanit.
    The tank has a digitally controlled turbo diesel / gas turbine engine with intelligent diagnostics.
    Such an Ilya Muromets tank was created using the latest defense technologies for 3 decades and will be the most powerful and ultra-protected tank of the 21st century and it will be able to cope with any fierce enemy on the battlefield and ensure the security of our country for many decades to come!
    Who are the guys for this tank?
    1. Alf
      -1
      21 February 2020 19: 01
      Quote: Star Trek
      Who are the guys for this tank?

      Players at HERE. The rest of the rest are not separated from reality.
  50. 0
    20 February 2020 23: 09
    Quote: Bad_gr
    But the military insisted that the ammunition should be the same

    I wonder what is the point of maintaining the BC, if you still can not use it. How many Iraqi tanks succeeded in firing shots before destruction? Did they manage to spend all the BC?
  51. +1
    20 February 2020 23: 54
    In addition to the T-90, there are many more in warehouses. I suggest.
    T-55, T-62, T-64, T-72, T-72A, remove everything from storage and collect from all sludges, repair plant dumps, etc., carry out CWR and, if possible/necessary, modernize.

    Leave each type of battalion with subordination to the museum in Kubinka for the cinema and so on))

    Sell ​​the rest!

    With the proceeds from the sale:

    All T-80 and T-90 (first releases) are also collected from everywhere, modernized and sent to the troops.

    The remaining modifications of the T-72 (B and others) should be carried out with a modification to the level of T-72B3\b4?.

    Send everything to high-quality storage (mobilization reserve), with the exception of the required quantity to equip existing units, if there are not enough T-90m. (T-80 only for the North and Marine Corps)

    The incoming new T 90M and T-14 replace the T-72B3, which are also sent for storage.

    Do everything correctly so that if something happens you won’t be left without tanks.

    The bottom line:

    mobilization tank will be presented T-72b3

    in the troops T-90m and in the north T-80bvm.

    everyone has the same caliber and, accordingly, ammunition,

    unified equipment (communications, etc.), etc.

    Stop the rest of the noise, close the question.
    1. 0
      23 February 2020 00: 26
      Well, it seems like they’ve taken it out of the tongue - only the main one should be the T-14 bully
      T-55, T-62, T-64 and T-72 - scrapped and melted down. Well, or for export to someone - maybe someone will find it useful in the absence of fish. The modernized T-72 and T-90 are gradually being put into reserve after being gradually replaced by the T-14. First the T-72, and then maybe the T-90 after reaching the required number of Armatas. The T-80, after reaching the end of its service life, should also be replaced with the same T-14 - it seems like you can install a gas turbine engine on them. Those. as in “Highlander” - “only one can remain”!
      1. 0
        24 February 2020 10: 09
        Armata is still expensive and not fully tested.
        1. 0
          24 February 2020 17: 06
          Everything has its time. I think that at first it cannot cost less than outdated models - at least due to the fact that there is a lot of the most modern stuff there. At first they said the same thing about the T-90, “expensive” - however, after the start of mass purchases and the development of production, the price per unit immediately dropped. The initial price for the T-14 was generally about 400 million rubles - which is almost twice as high as the current one.
          And the fact that it (Armata) is still being tested is correct. Another unfinished T-64 is not needed. By the way, the same ever-memorable T-90s were generally designed in the first half of the nineties - and they began to be purchased en masse somewhere around 2004. The main thing is that we have already developed a modern tank, that it is being brought to the required condition, and that because of it there is absolutely no point in purchasing old models. We can only wait patiently.
        2. 0
          24 February 2020 17: 41
          Well, for now, we’ll make do with what we have - even taking into account the T-55 and T-62, we have 21K tanks.
        3. 0
          24 February 2020 18: 23
          The epic "Topol->Rebel->Boxer->Hammer->Note\Barrier->Object-299->Black Eagle->T-95" should already be finished!
  52. +2
    21 February 2020 00: 54
    160 tanks - well, we have already come to the conclusion that this is not a lot, but not too little.

    There are about 3 thousand tanks in the ground forces, respectively, 160 tanks are only 5-6% of the total number of tanks.
    There is no need to say that they will somehow fundamentally increase the combat effectiveness of tank units.

    Modernization of all 550 units. T-90A tanks and the release of 50 units of new T-90M would make it possible to update tank units by 20%, but even this is not happening.
    Everyone probably understands that the “Kremlin fairy tales” from Borisov and Shoigu about 70% of new equipment in the ground forces should have resulted in 2 thousand new tanks and 4-5 thousand new infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.

    The actual figures for the purchase of truly new and promising equipment are 10 times less than planned - 120 Armata of all types, 160 T-90M + 450 new BMP-3, the rest is a “budget” modernization of 40-50 year old T-72, BTR-80 and BMP- 2.
    For self-propelled guns and towed artillery, the situation is no better.
  53. +2
    21 February 2020 02: 39
    ....... Well, the French currently have 226 Leclercs in their ground forces. The Germans have 224 Leopard-2s in stock and almost 300 more in reserve. The Italians have 200 Arietes and 120 Leopards.
    If you look like this, it is quite comparable with the armies of our potential ...

    ".... The countries of Europe that are members of NATO have 11 thousand tanks at their disposal - and Turkey has the most tanks (about 3,2 thousand units).
    The USA and Canada collectively have 18 thousand units of heavily armored military equipment....."
    1. 0
      21 February 2020 10: 22
      Quote: Bad_gr
      The USA and Canada collectively have 18 thousand units of heavily armored military equipment

      Mostly in storage. The States have 10 tank brigades in the active army, each with 81, EMNIP, vehicles. + in KMP.
    2. 0
      22 February 2020 10: 51
      Quote: Bad_gr
      ".... European countries that are members of NATO have 11 thousand tanks at their disposal.
      The USA and Canada collectively have 18 thousand units of heavily armored military equipment....."

      "..... The Danish king Nils, who reigned in 1104-1134, had an army of 7 people. With this army, he ruled Denmark for 30 years, and at that time Denmark also included large parts of Sweden and Norway, and also some parts of Northern Germany....."
    3. 0
      22 February 2020 19: 11
      There will be no more Prokhorovkas, El Alamein or the Yom Kippur War - tactical nuclear weapons were not invented for beauty.
  54. +1
    21 February 2020 15: 25
    Why compare the number of tanks in comparison with a specific country. It is necessary to compare how many tanks China has and how many NATO has in Europe.
  55. +1
    21 February 2020 15: 48
    T-72 is a tank of the middle of the last century, no matter how you try to upgrade it, it will not become modern. Alas. And we’ll finish on that topic of an imminent armored hero (an anniversary is just 50 in Latin).

    But the potential of the T-90 is not only not fully revealed, today we can confidently ............ modernization will be a very, very significant step.

    Excuse me, and they’ll probably downvote them now, but the T-90 is a heavily modified T-72...
    1. +1
      22 February 2020 11: 19
      That's right: because the T-90 is simply a renamed T-72BU - God knows what kind of modification of the original vehicle!
  56. 0
    21 February 2020 16: 34
    The T90 is a good tank (until they bring the Armata to mind, it will become outdated. And so 40 seconds in modern combat, that one, that one
  57. +1
    22 February 2020 12: 04
    I would like to say, how to cut it off, for those who constantly talk about the same thing: that “Armata” is not needed, that it will not exist, that it is not relevant and everything in the same spirit - it is already developed by, she is now passes the final stage of military testing, and regardless of anyone’s desire, it will be do into the troops, replacing the T-72 (and in the future - other vehicles).
  58. 0
    22 February 2020 19: 52
    Quote: figvam
    The fact that our economy is crushed by sanctions? Didn't you know that?

    But I think and I can’t understand why the billionaires are popping up like mushrooms. This is what life-giving sanctions do.
  59. +2
    23 February 2020 01: 30
    Lord, deliver from the Evil One! Get rid of the “fighters against the regime”, both with the liberal and with the “but life was better in the USSR” gloss! And get rid of Svidomo ragulians too! Damn them all, jackals!
  60. The comment was deleted.
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. 0
    27 February 2020 12: 37
    The feeling is twofold. On the one hand, we need more tanks. On the other hand, it is necessary to orient military products to the needs of agriculture, the automotive industry, science and the service sector. I don’t understand that our country sells equipment for dollars, but every year these dollars flow out of the country through offshore companies, so we give them away for free.
  63. +1
    28 February 2020 22: 56
    Quote from DiViZ
    I don’t understand that our country sells equipment for dollars, but every year these dollars flow out of the country through offshore companies, so we give them away for free.

    Lord... this political anxiety is starting again. Again these rebellious ravings of young people about how bad everything is with us and about the “struggle for Justice” am
  64. 0
    28 February 2020 23: 05
    Quote from DiViZ
    The feeling is twofold. On the one hand, we need more tanks. On the other hand, it is necessary to orient military products to the needs of agriculture, the automotive industry, science and the service sector.

    Bullshit. This is not the 90s, when defense plants and factories, in order for them to somehow survive, were doomed to produce civilian products through conversion. The defense industry should only do what it is supposed to do - produce military products. And period. For everything else, there are specialized enterprises. What she did in the 90s - she did it out of a bad life in order to avoid bankruptcy. Your remark looks like you wanted to seem smart - but in fact you blurted out something stupid.
    Damn, the generation of the 2000s has grown up! Those who know about the history of their country and everything that happens in it from the stories of “fighters against the regime.” So what? It’s the official media and history textbooks who lie - they hide the truth, like in some Hollywood movie on the theme of “conspiracy theory”. According to the opinion of maximalist youth with a rebellious spirit, only those “who are against” can believe - they know the whole truth! Damn, I hate modern youth!
    1. -2
      4 March 2020 19: 12
      Quote: Nameless
      it has already been developed, it is now undergoing the final stage of military tests, and regardless of anyone’s desire

      Unfortunately, it revealed weak armor on the side walls of the capsule, the armored capsule is located across the tank hull where all three crew members sit shoulder to shoulder in one row, so it is impossible to make it narrower, and it is also impossible to make the tank hull wider, so just increase the thickness of the side walls there is not enough space, and the ammunition with an automatic loader prevents you from placing a third crew member behind the first two, and you can’t increase the length of the hull either, this means installing an eighth pair of rollers, and the tank is already too big.
      1. +2
        5 March 2020 22: 44
        From what sources did you learn about this disease? What, is UVZ now openly sharing the secret characteristics of its brainchild and the results of its tests with the whole world? Or maybe this is just another attempt at wishful thinking? I have very strong doubts about the truth of your statements...
        It seems that you are operating with information received from the abode of such armchair experts across the Internet as Yandex Zen. Surely there are unrecognized geniuses, masters of sports in all sports, holy, infallible, absolutely honest people, experts in all areas of human activity and professors of all sciences. In short, it's like "Speed ​​Info" laughing
        The ammunition, if my memory serves me correctly, is not located inside the hull, but in the gondola behind the turret.
        It is in principle impossible to create a completely indestructible tank - one or the other will destroy it. Armata itself is superior to all currently existing tanks.
        1. -2
          6 March 2020 10: 51
          Quote: Nameless
          In short, it's like "Speed ​​Info"

          Firstly, you must respect all users, even if you do not agree with their opinion, and then I’m not writing here for the sake of pluses.
          The thickness of the side armor of the capsule can be approximately estimated by knowing from Wikipedia the width of the tank is 3.5 m, the width of the tracks is 0.6 m and the distance between the caterpillar and the hull is 0.1 m, and taking the internal width of the armored capsule to be 1.8 m, then the side wall is 0.15 m, check 0.6+0.6+0.1+0.1 +1.8+0.15+0.15=3.5 m everything fits together.
          And so we have
          1. Thickness 150 mm (possibly less), this is insufficient thickness, and there is no way to significantly increase it, and the ammunition located under the turret makes it difficult to seat the crew in two rows
          2. The armored capsule occupies the entire width of the tank hull, that is, 2.1 m, so it has a large area of ​​frontal armor, and if the crew sat at the back of each other’s heads, the frontal projection area of ​​the capsule could be reduced by half
          Amateur opinion
          1. Placing the ammunition in the hull under the turret increases the length of the tank, so it is necessary to use a short and wide armored capsule with weak side wall armor and a large area of ​​frontal armor
          2. Placing ammunition behind the backs of the crew requires the use of serious armor of a large area, and it is essentially ballast since it is located INSIDE the tank,
          Conclusion, if you remove the ammunition from the tank hull, it will be shorter by one pair of rollers, and the armored capsule will have more serious protection
          1. -1
            6 March 2020 23: 27
            If I didn’t respect anyone, I would behave much worse and more dissolutely. As in relation to some liberals, he allowed himself a couple of strong expressions - for which the admin gently stroked me on the head with a banhammer. But judging by the way you independently “estimate” based on material from Wikipedia (oh yeah, this is the most damn reliable source) - for me you are not an authority in this field. I can silently listen to people who are truly knowledgeable in this or that topic, who have ate the dog in this field. But there are no armchair experts who use Wikipedia as the ultimate truth, and who in addition take some numbers out of thin air and calculate using formulas known to them alone. You are like those schoolchildren with one famous pictchi, who reasoned that the Armata Javelin would not withstand. So don't complain that you don't get the respect you deserve here. Otherwise, damn it, I already thought that your godfather works at UVZ - that he is leaking all the information from the tests to you. But it turns out you just opened Wikipedia, took the numbers filled in by someone unknown in the form of characteristics of the tank, added your own, God knows how you calculated all this and now, with the air of a master, he categorically asserts that the Armata is a tin can. You are either a provocateur or a pothead.
            1. -2
              7 March 2020 12: 43
              .. an armchair expert gave you a calculation, if you think it is not correct, indicate where the error is. 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 1.8 + 0.15 + 0.15 = 3.5, and everything else is a pointless conversation.
              1. +1
                7 March 2020 23: 24
                I have already told you more than enough about the level of your competence as an expert in the field of tank building. I will not repeat myself - because I will not say anything new. Read my previous message carefully until you achieve enlightenment.
                1. -1
                  8 March 2020 14: 15
                  And so we see how some nameless person is unable to add up several numbers in his mind, unable to at least somehow argue his opinion on the topic of discussion, but he is capable of giving a negative assessment of the opponent’s personality and knows how to put minuses, then the question is - what is he worth? rating ?
                  1. 0
                    8 March 2020 14: 33
                    I’m not going to follow your lead - it’s enough for me that you used such a dubious source of information as Wikipedia, where most of the articles are categorically written by murky individuals with murky intentions under the guise of objectivity and profound truth in the style of “Uncle Fyodor, the dog and the cat wrote a letter Uncle's parents" on the toilet wall. It’s enough for me that you simply took from there, I don’t know who and I don’t know where, the information about the characteristics (secret, it must be admitted - because UVZ never published the thickness of the armor) of the tank and just from the bullshit calculated its armor according to the formulas known to you, considering them indisputable correct. It’s enough for me that, based on your only correct calculations, you concluded that the tank’s armor was made using the technologies of the first half of the 20th century - as if there were no active and dynamic protection systems, smoke grenade launchers, combined armor, modern metallurgy, composite materials now , set aside side armor. Is it okay that modern armor can be thinner than armor that is equivalent in strength but thicker and produced using WWII technologies? No, like a schoolboy, the more, the cooler, and the less, then it’s nonsense. Give it free rein, you will consider any modern promising tank to be a pathetic tin can compared to the Mammoth tank. As a result, I’m not going to engage in such nonsense as you, who from the sofa after school imagines that he is a world-famous expert in the field of tank building.
                    As you can see, there is more than enough argumentation in the direction that you are incompetent - you simply ignore it and, like a schoolchild, are trying to prove to me that “you are right because you are right.” Simply put, your drain is counted.
  65. 0
    16 March 2020 12: 23
    I get the feeling from the article that the author is justifying the Moscow Region for Armata... The deflection is counted
  66. 0
    22 March 2020 08: 50
    Gentlemen, I understand that the T-72 is already 50 years old, this and that, but how does the armor of the T-72b differ from the same early T-90s.

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