There was a danger of the forces of the 25th SAA Special Forces Division entering the Turkish environment in Idlib

In connection with the statements of the Turkish president that the start of a military operation in Idlib is only a matter of time, you should pay attention to the map of the location of the Turkish military in the SAR.

We are talking about places of concentration of military personnel of the Turkish armed forces, including the so-called "observation posts". It is important to note that the number of these posts over the past few weeks has grown significantly, stepping over the limit defined in the format of the Astana and Sochi agreements.

The Turkish security forces settled down in several directions, including the M-4 road connecting Aleppo with the Mediterranean coast.

Places of concentration of Turkish troops and equipment: Arima in the south of the Idlib de-escalation zone, Jizr al-Sugur, Deir-Sumbyul, Sarmin, Idlib, Taftanaz, Atarib, Kafr-Karmin. This is less than half of the areas where Turkish troops are located in territories controlled by militants. But there are a considerable number of locations of Turkish soldiers and officers in the rear of the Syrian government army. A few examples: Serakib, Maaret-en-Nuuman, Morek, Al-Ais, Rashidin, Seykh-Akil and others. The Turkish contingent in Idlib and Aleppo is estimated at thousands of troops.

In such a situation, it is worth assessing the danger of a Turkish strike to the rear of the SAA. It is important that in the rear there are formations that, by definition, are less combat-ready than at the front line. If ahead, for example, the 25th Special Forces Division (formerly Tiger Force) operates, then the units that are primarily involved in strengthening positions and restoring infrastructure remain behind. Opponents of the SAA may well take advantage of this by arranging, for example, a provocation with a simultaneous attempt to force the advanced detachments of the SAA to withdraw to "put out the fire in the rear."

In this regard, there is a danger that the forces of the mentioned 25th division of the Special Operations SAA will enter the Turkish environment. If Erdogan decides to go all-in, then he may well give the order to slam the lid of the "boiler" in the triangle of Foix-Idlib-Serakib. It was in this triangle that Turkish special forces were previously thrown. But whether the General Staff of Turkey calculated possible losses among the Turkish army personnel is an open question.

Comments

[MoJloT]

But whether the General Staff of Turkey calculated possible losses among the Turkish army is an open question.

Of course, I calculated, apparently there is a strong belief in a quick operation with small losses, it seems not without a solid one.

[Lord of the Sith]

I do not think that the Sultan will have a small victorious war. Get stuck.

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

[MoJloT]

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

M5. It seems not so fantastic.

[1Alexey]

Quote: MoJloT

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

M5. It seems not so fantastic.

It was reported that the M5 is currently controlled by Russian troops. In such a situation, the capture of the M5 will be more than fantastic for the Turks!

In addition, there was a message that Russian troops were escorting Turkish special forces from checkpoints that were in the rear of the Syrian troops towards the Turkish border.

[Trevis]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

What exactly does he want?

Expel the Syrians from their land.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

So he wants the SAA to return to the positions agreed upon during the Sochi-Astana talks, but this is hardly possible.
By and large, it turns out that this "cauldron" has already taken place, but not for the SAA special forces, but only for a part of the Turkish troops that are in the rear of the SAA and in fact were surrounded. This can be called a breakthrough of the encirclement through two counter strikes, rather than the organization of the boiler. It is not clear why it should be "broken through", if the Syrians can release them without hindrance, without losses on both sides. By the way, yesterday our police accompanied some Turkish "encirclements" to the exit. Probably Erdogan just to maintain decency "blows cheeks and frowns" and will insist that the Syrians do not advance further than where they are now.

[svp67]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

Great Turkey ...

[LMN]

Quote: MoJloT

But whether the General Staff of Turkey calculated possible losses among the Turkish army is an open question.

Of course, I calculated, apparently there is a strong belief in a quick operation with small losses, it seems not without a solid one.

But he didn’t calculate the agreements with Putin?
Based on your message, Erdogan, as it were, does not take into account the opinion of the Russian Federation at all ..

[MoJloT]

Based on your message, Erdogan, as it were, does not take into account the opinion of the Russian Federation at all ..

Well, to put it mildly, it’s possible, of course, in Russian, but for this it’s ban.

[LMN]

Quote: MoJloT

Based on your message, Erdogan, as it were, does not take into account the opinion of the Russian Federation at all ..

Well, to put it mildly, it’s possible, of course, in Russian, but for this it’s ban.

Ban, for "in Russian". This adverb is spelled "in Russian".
The Russian Federation and Syria have no claims to Turkey to date.
Hysterics, Erdogan. He "owes" the Russian Federation and Syria (based on the Sochi negotiations), he owes Putin personally, he agreed with him ..
Let him decide now.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: MoJloT

Of course, I calculated, apparently there is a strong belief in a quick operation with small losses, it seems not without a thorough

Not long music played, as they say ..
"The Turkish army retreated in northern Syria and burned its positions"
https://lenta.ru/comments/news/2020/02/19/telltamer/

[serzh.kost]

this is called relocation. removed from there - sent to Idlib. Well, the tape is such an icteric resource

[Nikolai Grek]

Quote: MoJloT

But whether the General Staff of Turkey calculated possible losses among the Turkish army is an open question.

Of course, I calculated, apparently there is a strong belief in a quick operation with small losses, it seems not without a solid one.

they missed a coup d'etat under their nose !! what "miscalculations" are you talking about? !!!

[Imperial Technocrat]

Russia must give Syria tactical nuclear weapons, and Syria will punch their own corridor to Istanbul

[Trevis]

Maybe right away strategic? To walk so walk! How crave!

[Imperial Technocrat]

Strategic too. For cases where Nato will fit in with the Turkish Fuhrer. Then Syria will be able to erase New York, Los Angeles, Washington and other American cities with thermonuclear charges

[Trevis]

We will surely have a beat.

[Incvizitor]

Well, yes, and then his broads will capture him.

[Sergst]

Well, I don’t know, Libya, Cyprus, Syria - will not be too much for Turkey?

[seregatara1969]

The laurels of the emperor do not give rest. The glory of Ataturk warms your ass. It drags the whole thing into the infernal cauldron of more than one country and more than one people.

[Gray brother]

Some of these have already been shut down the boiler along the Russian border, but in the end they cooked themselves.
How are the observational points observable?

[Cat]

25th Division

What is it like? Even in the USSR there were no more SPN brigades, and there were no actions as part of the brigade — a maximum of detachment.

[donavi49]

This is Syria. The Tiger Forces gathered the most combat-ready and resilient + full staff of normal commanders from platoon to division. In the end, they called it the 25th special forces division. In fact, this is really a special purpose - the only large unit capable of attacking, assaulting and holding counterattacks.

That's even for this operation:
The 25th division did 95% of the work. The M5 broke through to the rear and did work on the offensive section and the Aleppo group.

4 mechanized division of Maher al-Assad (the core of the Aleppo strike group) - spent a whole year preparing for battle, understaffing, and finally got zilch. Little success in Rashidin. A couple of repulsed villages on the outskirts and rolled back to the starting ones with the first serious counterattack. This is where the T-90, T-62 and BMP were presented on the go.

[LMN]

Well ?
25th or 4th division, indignant at the "aggression" of Turkey?

[Cat]

Quote: donavi49

In fact, this is really a special purpose - the only large unit capable of attacking, assaulting and holding counter-attacks

If you do not find fault with the terms. By the way, if it is a division, then this is a unit, not a unit. Well, it’s like that, a chatter ...
And then what are the troops that are not for special purposes?

[Sancho_SP]

Barmalei on carts, mainly. No need to think that the warring parties are very different.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Gato

How's that?

Well, there’s an assault rather than a special forces division, with special forces in its composition.

[ananias mudishev]

Well, something like our ODON or OMSDON

[Doliva63]

Quote: Gato

25th Division

What is it like? Even in the USSR there were no more SPN brigades, and there were no actions as part of the brigade — a maximum of detachment.

Well yes. Since the Union of Special Forces in the Union is intelligence, it’s difficult for us to imagine intelligence. Division, I agree It’s just that they put some sense (if that’s their term at all) into this concept, inaccessible to us. Since the 90s, by the way, we have bred all kinds of SPNs. And before that, by the way, there were divisions, though not special., But even of a special purpose - OMSDONs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, remember? So it's just the cost of terminology.

[ananias mudishev]

OMSDON is a motorized rifle, and in the Ministry of Internal Affairs - ODON

[Doliva63]

Quote: Ananias Mudishev

OMSDON is a motorized rifle, and in the Ministry of Internal Affairs - ODON

I don’t remember the ODON divisions in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, but my classmate served in the OMSDON of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs named after Dzerzhinsky after the Ordzhonikidze Combined Arms Command School of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. By issue - the commander of the MSV on the armored personnel carrier. Maybe there were ODONs, I don’t know, I’m army.

[Cat]

OMSDON is a motorized rifle, and in the Ministry of Internal Affairs - ODON

This is one and the same division. First was OMSDON them. F.E.Dzerzhinsky, then ODON named after him. In the first case, special purpose, in the second - operational.

[Cat]

OMSDONs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, remember?

And then. True, in its purpose and application, it is rather a security division (well, there is protection of the rear, especially important facilities, etc.) with a particularly reliable l / s - i.e. heavily armed and a direct opponent of the same Special Forces. And the Special Forces in the Union are not only and not so much reconnaissance as sabotage in the deep enemy rear, where the playful arms of division reconnaissance armies do not reach. You must admit that 1-2 brigades of the Special Forces in the okrug (front) for reconnaissance alone are a bit too much.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Gato

OMSDONs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, remember?

And then. True, in its purpose and application, it is rather a security division (well, there is protection of the rear, especially important facilities, etc.) with a particularly reliable l / s - i.e. heavily armed and a direct opponent of the same Special Forces. And the Special Forces in the Union are not only and not so much reconnaissance as sabotage in the deep enemy rear, where the playful arms of division reconnaissance armies do not reach. You must admit that 1-2 brigades of the Special Forces in the okrug (front) for reconnaissance alone are a bit too much.

You will be surprised, but there wasn’t such a position in the Special Forces - a saboteur. The main specialty is a scout. And reconnaissance is the main task of Special Forces, as well as all reconnaissance units of SA
- from the reconnaissance platoon of the SMB to the special forces brigade. And in the same way, in the list of tasks of each intelligence unit there is also sabotage, only the depth (range from its troops), the scale and the weapons used are different. That's the whole difference. Another thing is that the farther from combat operations, the more different are the methods of reconnaissance. For example, attracting the local population to reconnaissance, organizing a popular patriotic and liberation movement deep behind enemy lines, such as partisan, whose main task is to provide up-to-date information, and only then sabotage, etc., since no one expects to win by sabotage and partisanship, but only by the successful action of their troops. Therefore, everything is "sharpened" for obtaining information, which forms the basis of the commanders' decisions to fight somewhere in the infantry, which should win the war. It's just that reconnaissance, conducted to the operational and great depth, was called special reconnaissance, hence the name "special forces". In short, so to speak
And yes, in the Special Forces brigade there are usually 3 reconnaissance battalions. That is, it turns out that there are 5-6 of them in the army (according to the number of divisions), and only 3 at the front. And you say, the brigade to the front is a lot. I hope I didn’t give out military secrets

[Cat]

And yes, in the Special Forces brigade there are usually 3 reconnaissance battalions

As far as I know, there were no reconnaissance battalions in the SPN brigade, but there were units of 4 to 7, plus separate radio reconnaissance companies, sappers, and other appendicitis, and some even had their own air squadrons. This is a district subordination. And armies and AKs have their own separate battalions and companies. No, I’m not against each division to send special forces for the brigade, but this is not a war, but a continuous reconnaissance

[Doliva63]

Quote: Gato

And yes, in the Special Forces brigade there are usually 3 reconnaissance battalions

As far as I know, there were no reconnaissance battalions in the SPN brigade, but there were units of 4 to 7, plus separate radio reconnaissance companies, sappers, and other appendicitis, and some even had their own air squadrons. This is a district subordination. And armies and AKs have their own separate battalions and companies. No, I’m not against each division to send special forces for the brigade, but this is not a war, but a continuous reconnaissance

The squad is comparable in size to a battalion, so I named them for simplicity. And the support units and subdivisions are by themselves, but they, in fact, do not play any piano. Even where there were special ministers, they only went to the regular reconnaissance groups. I don’t remember a single OBRSpN with my aircraft. There were some in ODSBR, but not in SPN. Or forgot. Give an example or something. The most advanced in the Union were 3 and 5 OBRSpN, there was nothing flying there, with the exception of the period when they tried to introduce something like motorcycle deltas. 5th, by the way, once my classmate commanded. There have been no separate battalions for 50 years already, probably, not counting the cropped up company guard in Aramili, but after Afghanistan it is not there - I once was aware of the details, but, thank God, forgot them There were separate companies in the armies and some AKs, yes.

[Sergst]

Quote: MoJloT

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

M5. It seems not so fantastic.

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

[PSih2097]

Quote: Sergst

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

Well, Israel and America do something like that, what prevents it?

[1Alexey]

Quote: PSih2097

Quote: Sergst

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

Well, Israel and America do something like that, what prevents it?

In fact, Russia closed the sky in Syria only over Idlib, Israel and Israel do not fly over Idlib, I doubt that the Turks can.

[PSih2097]

Quote: 1Alexey

In fact, Russia closed the sky in Syria only over Idlib, Israel and Israel do not fly over Idlib, I doubt that the Turks can.

but rockets can fly, unlike aviation ...

[Grits]

Quote: Sergst

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

It is very simple to open this sky with the help of 200 Turkish aircraft. Here along the way, many people think that the Turks have aviation like Lithuania - 2 corn kernels.

[Vladimir61]

It is quite possible, although this map is more similar to political, rather than topographic. But, then, all Turkish checkpoints on Syrian territory, the Syrians can calmly use, and Turkish shock "fists" on the highways can be stopped by powerful rocket and artillery fire, including the use of "Points", which they are still in the case was not allowed.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Vladimir61

all Turkish checkpoints in Syrian territory, the Syrians can safely spend,

The Turks seem to have evacuated their "posts" that were surrounded and blockaded. They were taken out with the escort of the RF Armed Forces police.
This, in general, is a positive moment, but it suggests that the Turks can prepare for serious battles and take their own out of a possible blow, i.e. untied their hands.

[Grits]

Quote: Vladimir61

But, then, all Turkish checkpoints on Syrian territory, the Syrians can calmly use, and Turkish shock "fists" on the highways can be stopped by powerful rocket and artillery fire, including the use of "Points", which they are still in the case was not allowed.

Is logical. I think that is exactly what the Syrians are planning. Rather, the Syrian military. But what will happen after that? Or do they hope the Turks get scared and flee the battlefield? Next will be a nightmare for CAA. After that, they simply roll it to zero. Indeed, in addition to the aforementioned division, the SAA has practically nothing combat ready.

[LMN]

Turkey will not do this. What kind of "boilers" ?!
Any "boilers" will mean a declaration of war on Syria, and therefore potentially the Russian Federation.

[aranzon1913]

If they begin, immediately cover the oporniks with dots and artifacts.

[1Alexey]

Quote: aranzon1913

If they begin, immediately cover the oporniks with dots and artifacts.

Right !!! And to connect the MLRS (all the more so, they recently installed our Sun Flamethrowers).

After this, Erdagan will need to think about how his own would not be shot for such a successful operation.

[PSih2097]

Quote: 1Alexey

all the more to them our Solntsepek flamethrowers recently set

in the sun the launch distance is less than that of the ATGM, not to mention the art ... Yes, and it was created for other situations, you still propose to use "Gorynych" ...

[Whisper]

I think Erdogan can go all in a bank ..... it all depends on agreements with Moscow.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Sheptun

I think Erdogan can go all in a bank ..... it all depends on agreements with Moscow.

After his people are put in Syria, he really will only have to go to the bank for cash and flow from Turkey (until the shooting).

[Livonetc]

Well, aviation is present there not only in the person of the aerospace forces.
Syrian aviation can also work.
And how will Turkish units be covered from the air?
Well, the location of the Turkish units is known.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Livonetc

Syrian aviation can also work.
And how will Turkish units be covered from the air?

The Turks will block the small heights, and there are hardly any things to work effectively from medium and large Syrians.

[Krasnodar]

In the case of the use of aviation directly in the Turks, they will bring their Air Force into battle.

[Altai72]

No problem. They won’t even think about it.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Krasnodar

In the case of the use of aviation directly in the Turks, they will bring their Air Force into battle.

There are only two questions.

1. Will they allow our VKS, which more than once Turkish F-16 deployed.

2. How will Syrian air defense work (they wrote that ours have already given the green light to use S-300 transferred to Syria by the Turks).

[Grits]

Quote: Krasnodar

In the case of the use of aviation directly in the Turks, they will bring their Air Force into battle

Its Air Force is a dozen Su-17s against hundreds of F-16s

[Krasnodar]

I wrote about the Turks

[Altai72]

At the moment it is not known where and in what place the Turkish electronic warfare "Coral" systems are deployed. Some sources indicate that its position is located 80-90 km from the Russian air base. Considering that the effective range of the Coral electronic warfare is 150 km, it is quite capable of interfering with the work of Russian radio-electronic means, as well as aviation. With the S-400 in its armament, Turkey could well study the mechanism for jamming these air defense systems, and thus now prevents Russia from controlling the airspace over northern Syria.

[Krasnodar]

These are not the most advanced means of jamming. By Western standards.

[Altai72]

Well, something more than nothing. Do you think this will be no problem?

[Krasnodar]

theoretically - can be from everything.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Altai72

Well, something more than nothing. Do you think this will be no problem?

They already wrote that our problems are not felt from this.

In addition, our electronic warfare is much more powerful and efficient than Turkish. So, if our EWs are turned on, then the Turks will not only have their EWs, but many other things will stop working.

[flicker]

In such a situation, it is worth assessing the danger of a Turkish strike in the rear of the SAA ... In this regard, there is a danger of the forces of the mentioned 25th division of the SAA SAA falling into the Turkish encirclement

No well ok
Turks will hit the rear of the Syrians and the Syrians will be surrounded
And the Turks do not risk falling into the environment by hitting the rear of the Syrians ?????

[serzh.kost]

in general, everything depends on the eggs of GDP, if there are eggs, it will not bend. no - if the Syrians retreat from the M5 highway, then it will be a disgrace to the people of Ukrainian and Yugoslav, then their legs will be wiped off by anyone.
everything is possible. if in the Donbass, which is near at hand, ukroraich daily kill Russian, then what really there ...

[1Alexey]

Quote: serzh.kost

if the Syrians retreat from the m5 highway, then there will be a disgrace

They already wrote that the M5 highway was completely taken under the control of the troops of the Russian Federation.

So the M5, even theoretically, does not shine on the Turks!

In addition, NATO did not in vain refuse to support Turkey in Idlib - they were not afraid of Syria!

[Altai72]

There are no Russian troops in Syria)

[1Alexey]

The military police and the aerospace forces are also units of the Russian troops.

[Grits]

Quote: serzh.kost

in general, everything depends on the eggs of GDP, if there are eggs, it will not bend. no - if the Syrians retreat from the M5 highway, then it will be a disgrace to the people of Ukrainian and Yugoslav, then their legs will be wiped off by anyone.

After this, dill can calmly begin an attack in the Donbass.

[ODERVIT]

I don’t know how great is the operational-tactical training of experts? But ... the best of the General Staffs will find a solution. Military science is studied in schools and academies, not on the VO website. On the cons is violet, it is necessary to decide on "sneezing" IN.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: ODERVIT

Well, I don’t know how great the operational-tactical training of experts is? But ... the best of the General Staffs will find a solution. Military science is studied in schools and academies, and not in the HE site.

The site contains news for wide discussion, and not an introductory one, for officers of the General Operations Department!

[Doliva63]

Quote: Vladimir61

Quote: ODERVIT

Well, I don’t know how great the operational-tactical training of experts is? But ... the best of the General Staffs will find a solution. Military science is studied in schools and academies, and not in the HE site.

The site contains news for wide discussion, and not an introductory one, for officers of the General Operations Department!

Is there an operational department in the General Staff? I remember: the 1st Main Directorate, the Main Operational Directorate, and the operational department, probably, was in Civil. Congratulations, you still have a great memory!

[PSih2097]

Quote: ODERVIT

Well, I don’t know how great the operational-tactical training of experts is?

Believe me, here (on the site) not only sofas are seated, but also both ex (retired, in reserve) and the current armed forces of not only the USSR / RF, but also abroad ...

[Volodin]

Quote: ODERVIT

it is necessary to decide on "sneezing" IN.

Why the Exorcist ... It would be better to start with a decision to study the rules of the Russian language

[Bully]

In essence, ODERVIT is right - emotions prevail during discussion. And if you look closely, the Russian Federation warned Erdogan in almost plain text: military operations against Syria will be the worst-case scenario [for Turkey]. Erdogan, instead of thinking (but Putin knows something that I don’t know), continues to bullish: I hope that the Russian Federation will not participate in this scenario. Erdogan already once overslept (this is about the level of his awareness), but the Russians saved his ass (this is about the level of awareness of the GDP). Here, many with echidtsy talk about Putin’s unprofitable friendship with Erdogan. Is it friendship? Rather, Erdogan is simply used while it is profitable.

[Krasnodar]

The author incorrectly translated the term commandos division)) This is not special forces, it's just good infantry, at the level of the IDF heavy infantry brigades or Amer marines

[PSih2097]

Quote: Krasnodar

This is not special forces, it’s just good infantry, at the level of the IDF’s heavy infantry brigades or Amer’s marines

it’s just attack aircraft with all means of amplification, including special forces units, except aviation, and I’m not sure (front-line - there should be turntables).

[Krasnodar]

As for the attack helicopters, like the Marins, I’m not sure, in principle, such divisions and tanks and self-propelled artillery are attached, as I recall. They have their own special forces, but in essence - infantry is infantry.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Krasnodar

but in fact - infantry infantry

our DShD / DShB - also infantry, only with delivery by plane.

[Krasnodar]

Yes, infantry. But the Syrian commandos are rather well-trained motorized infantry, not intended for the tasks performed by the DSB)) They are like marins, Golani, etc.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Krasnodar

well-trained motorized infantry

so we don’t have clean infantry right now, everything either moves on BTR / BMP / BMD or on tanks / cars (Kamaz / Tigers / Urals / Shishigi / Sadko).

[Krasnodar]

Once again - the Syrian commandos are distinguished by the quality of training corresponding to the IDF Golani, Givati, Nahal, Desantur or Amer Marins. It doesn’t matter how they move - even on donkeys)). Ordinary Syrian infantry was notable for their low quality training; their task was to keep fortified posts from the Golan Heights to Damascus. These - attack aircraft - offensive operations or defense of strategically important objects \ political and administrative centers.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

The author incorrectly translated the term commandos division)) This is not special forces, it's just good infantry, at the level of the IDF heavy infantry brigades or Amer marines

And what, in Israel there is no special forces like in the Union?

[Krasnodar]

Of course I have
In each infantry brigade - three companies - combat engineer, reconnaissance, anti-tank
Separate, each kind of troops and the General Staff
Special - such as evacuation, deep reconnaissance and sabotage behind enemy lines, etc. About 30 in total.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Of course I have
In each infantry brigade - three companies - combat engineer, reconnaissance, anti-tank
Separate, each kind of troops and the General Staff
Special - such as evacuation, deep reconnaissance and sabotage behind enemy lines, etc. About 30 in total.

I wonder what is the depth of deep intelligence work? Depth reconnaissance of ORB in the divisions of the Union worked for 100-300 km., Special operations forces - from 300 to 500 (army companies) and from 500 to dohren (these are already brigades). Well, like this. About. Does deep intelligence work with local people?

[Krasnodar]

1) How much is required - long distances are possible, with the possibility of evacuation
2) I don't know

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

1) How much is required - long distances are possible, with the possibility of evacuation
2) I don't know

And if there can be no evacuation, but it is necessary - otherwise kirdyk to Israel, then how?

[Krasnodar]

Then other units do it)).

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Then other units do it)).

Well, that's what I ask about them. Or are they no longer the army?

[Krasnodar]

Various. There may be combined operations - it’s not the army who finds out, then the army works - for example, the operation to free the hostages in Uganda. It can not be scouted by an army under army guard, for example.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

Various. There may be combined operations - it’s not the army who finds out, then the army works - for example, the operation to free the hostages in Uganda. It can not be scouted by an army under army guard, for example.

That is, in Israel there is no analogue of the Soviet special forces? The one who himself (through the GRU, also an army structure) could have all the necessary information and act independently from other state agencies in solving the tasks. Even the 14th deep intelligence company in the 68th, when it was necessary to capture the Dubcek government, had information only from military sources.

[Krasnodar]

There is. General Staff and Naval Commandos.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

There is. Special Forces of the General Staff.

One would like to ask: number, tasks? The Soviet Special Forces also obeyed the General Staff, or rather one of its directorates. Although it was under the operational subordination of other structures. It seems to me that the Soviet structure was the most efficient in the world. But this is only suitable for a powerful army, which is not present in Israel and in the Russian Federation.

[Krasnodar]

I do not know the number
Tasks - sabotage, intelligence, anti-terror
Distances - any
The most workable - US green berets
They have crazy funding, as well as political support - this is today
What happened during the Union - I don’t know
I read about Cascade and Pennant

[Doliva63]

Quote: Krasnodar

I do not know the number
Tasks - sabotage, intelligence, anti-terror
Distances - any
The most workable - US green berets
They have crazy funding, as well as political support - this is today
What happened during the Union - I don’t know
I read about Cascade and Pennant

Well, Cascade and Pennant to the army in no way.
And Israel has no analogue of the Green Berets, as I understand it. Thank.

[Krasnodar]

Analog of Green Berets - no, definitely

[Florian geyer]

Citizens, feel free to ask what are you talking about?
There is an analogue in Israel of both bomber and green berets. For example, 89 brigade and gossip 13.
We must go to classes in IA and theater of affairs.
In addition, by no means green berets are "the coolest", just an analogue of our conscripts in dshb.
Do you want steepness - SAS, Seals, Utti, yes.
But even with us, the spn is not at all homogeneous. There is no point in comparing 22 br with the Pacific reconnaissance point, rbt 98 dv or 45 r - all are very different in purpose and preparation

[Florian geyer]

Or are royalist views all frostbitten?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Florian Geyer

Citizens, feel free to ask what are you talking about?
There is an analogue in Israel of both bomber and green berets. For example, 89 brigade and gossip 13.
We must go to classes in IA and theater of affairs.
In addition, by no means green berets are "the coolest", just an analogue of our conscripts in dshb.
Do you want steepness - SAS, Seals, Utti, yes.
But even with us, the spn is not at all homogeneous. There is no point in comparing 22 br with the Pacific reconnaissance point, rbt 98 dv or 45 r - all are very different in purpose and preparation

True, I have been from the army for a long time, but, I remember, the structure and training of foreign special forces was studied. Therefore, a couple of remarks are ripe: Green berets and our DShV (even those years) are 2 big differences and there is no analogy between them; At the end of the 80s, the Northern Fleet "made" seals on their own base without any problems - what is the steepness?
For a long time, however, I read reviews about NATO "races" in 6 years - the Germans won 4 times, the Yankees and Tommy won once. Something has changed in the world since then, but the school has not disappeared anywhere, it will be necessary - the Germans will tighten up.
Once I thought that the SAS are the most powerful, because the group they have only 4 scouts versus 9-15 in other countries, but it turned out that the tasks are not comparable. So it turns out that now the army Special Forces are everywhere about the same where it is. And I never really studied Israel, because my theater was a CETVD.

[Florian geyer]

Dear comrade, the steepness of the goppa does not count on the number of fighters.
Sas crap in only for the war in Argentina? And rightly so. How much will 4 people carry on themselves, dropped to minus 50 km from the point?
The right group is 16 people. And the same Sas is the same.
But it’s more interesting to talk about Utti

[Doliva63]

Quote: Florian Geyer

Dear comrade, the steepness of the goppa does not count on the number of fighters.
Sas crap in only for the war in Argentina? And rightly so. How much will 4 people carry on themselves, dropped to minus 50 km from the point?
The right group is 16 people. And the same Sas is the same.
But it’s more interesting to talk about Utti

Behind the CAC is not only Argentina, if that. What is a "point" and what is "50 km"? In my time, the SAS group had exactly 4 people, I, like, wrote in Russian.

[Florian geyer]

Green berets in those years were conscripts, and now the second grade, as regards the struggle of the Special Forces with seals, is a fairy tale. Lackey yes they will easily stick but have never tried

[Doliva63]

Quote: Florian Geyer

Green berets in those years were conscripts, and now the second grade, as regards the struggle of the Special Forces with seals, is a fairy tale. Lackey yes they will easily stick but have never tried

After Vietnam, there are no conscripts in the US Army, if that. Your knowledge "amazes" me

[Florian geyer]

Citizens, feel free to ask what are you talking about?
There is an analogue in Israel of both bomber and green berets. For example, 89 brigade and gossip 13.
We must go to classes in IA and theater of affairs.
In addition, by no means green berets are "the coolest", just an analogue of our conscripts in dshb.
Do you want steepness - SAS, Seals, Utti, yes.
But even with us, the spn is not at all homogeneous. There is no point in comparing 22 br with the Pacific reconnaissance point, rbt 98 dv or 45 r - all are very different in purpose and preparation

[rocket757]

There are many open questions ... it’s better to calmly push them aside, otherwise it will be worse for everyone, but some are worse than others.

[Gardamir]

The site is military, but also political. You can draw offensive and waste maps as much as you like, but whether the Kremlin wants to go against a partner. Assad can only give Syrian oil. And much more depends on Erdogan.
And the Kremlin is not looking for allies, but partners. If Erdogan blocks the straits, and Iran passes and spans, then what? ..

[1Alexey]

Quote: Gardamir

whether the Kremlin wants to go against a partner. Assad can only give Syrian oil. And much more depends on Erdogan.
And the Kremlin is not looking for allies, but partners. If Erdogan blocks the straits

Turkey, which supports Ukraine against our Crimea, is not a partner for us!

Assad does not give us oil, but, first of all, bases on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, and this is part of our security.

And if Erdogan blocks the straits, then he will rake in full!

[Russian_man]

It will be good if this time.

[Sergst]

Quote: Sergst

Quote: MoJloT

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

M5. It seems not so fantastic.

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

That's cool, for a simple question there are so many minuses. You better explain how to conduct a serious offensive operation without air support. Here the Turkish general said that it’s impossible. As?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Sergst

Quote: Sergst

Quote: MoJloT

And what kind of operation, what does he specifically want?

M5. It seems not so fantastic.

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

That's cool, for a simple question there are so many minuses. You better explain how to conduct a serious offensive operation without air support. Here the Turkish general said that it’s impossible. As?

With powerful air defense and artillery - why not?

[Pastor]

Erdogan is not in vain seeking support in the states. Trump six months before the election can Turkey and support: in a word, weapons. The benefit of oil pumped a lot of Syrian. Erdogan may try to decide and play a powerful throw. And our VKS will not hit on it during the blitzkrieg.

[donavi49]

There, without American weapons, a tactical operation is quite capable. Coming from the columns - at least 3 tactical groups assembled from brigades (on the Sabra, on the Leopards and commandos). Plus greens with meat. It is quite beyond the M5 that they can force out, go to Aleppo and Hama again. Actually on this line and declared the need to go.

While Damascus is not going to storm Erdogan.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Pastor

And our VKS will not hit on it during the blitzkrieg.

Who promised this to you ?!

And do you think Assad himself began the operation in Idlib without instructions and support from the Russian Federation? And exactly, at the time when Erdogan began to transfer militants from Idlib to Libya?

[Pastor]

Assad is fighting for his country, and we are for Kortracts, supplies, influence. The Turkish stream has just been built, there is no north stream yet, which is why they will not.

[ximkim]

Turkish posts are along the highway. Before Idlib, they all grew like grebes, they don’t want to turn in militants. Yes, yes, militants. By the way. Probably there will be a corridor from Idlib so that peaceful people come out. One thing is interesting, but they will open a corridor? Here is a very interesting ledge to Marat e Nasan. There is exactly what will happen. I think so..

[Karaul73]

Quote: LMN

Quote: MoJloT

But whether the General Staff of Turkey calculated possible losses among the Turkish army is an open question.

Of course, I calculated, apparently there is a strong belief in a quick operation with small losses, it seems not without a solid one.

But he didn’t calculate the agreements with Putin?
Based on your message, Erdogan, as it were, does not take into account the opinion of the Russian Federation at all ..

And what can Russia oppose Turkey in the event of a war? The supply is problematic, there are relatively few troops. Remains aviation. But there are also enough questions. Turkish air defense is strong. So Erdogan will not particularly look at Russia.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Sentry73

Turkish air defense is strong.

Why is it strong?

[PSih2097]

Quote: Sentry73

The supply is problematic, there are relatively few troops. Remains aviation. But there are also enough questions. Turkish air defense is strong.

is it if from the side of Syria, but if from the side of the Black Sea? The radius of the aircraft (the same Tu-22, Su-34, MiG-31 with a dagger) draw?

[1Alexey]

Quote: PSih2097

Quote: Sentry73

The supply is problematic, there are relatively few troops. Remains aviation. But there are also enough questions. Turkish air defense is strong.

is it if from the side of Syria, but if from the side of the Black Sea? The radius of the aircraft (the same Tu-22, Su-34, MiG-31 with a dagger) draw?

And, if we add more blows with Caliber to this, yes the Bastions will sink the entire Turkish fleet (excellent, by the way, there will be training), and the X-101 missiles will take part from the strategists, and maybe we will also practice with the Daggers, and at the same time we have all of our electronic warfare disconnect then, of course, there’s nothing to be afraid of Turkey))).

[PSih2097]

Quote: 1Alexey

The bastions will sink the entire Turkish fleet

purely physically unable, because it’s not like they won’t get to Turkey, if only in Odessa .....

[Russian_man]

Everything is already opposed, do not worry about Russia. Do we be sad. Drawing names on stones this time is not for us. There are much more of them and they are not covered by almost nothing. The times of cavalry and tank wedges have passed. ..)

[Incvizitor]

The right of the strong is a double-edged sword, you climb on the one who is weaker, then do not be surprised that there is someone stronger who will roll you and the king seems to have beguiled the coast.

[Russian_man]

Well, if I really got it, the news was different for a week now.

[rruvim]

For the 50th time I affirm that only the introduction of a "limited" contingent of the Russian Army into Syria and in particular in the Idlib province will help to avoid the beating of the 25th and accompanying formations from the Turkish army. Escorting TSK convoys to the "Turkish observation posts" by the few "tigers" of the Russian military police along the M5 highway will not save the situation, and will aggravate it. We accompany the mat ourselves. part and BP of the Turks in the rear of the SAA.

[Alexander Sharapov]

Well, something like this for today http://warsonline.info/siriia/novosti/siriia/idlib-aleppo.html

[rruvim]

Or something like this:
https://syria.liveuamap.com/

[1Alexey]

Quote: rruvim

Escorting TSK convoys to the "Turkish observation posts" by the few "tigers" of the Russian military police along the M5 highway will not save the situation, and will aggravate it. We accompany the mat ourselves. part and BP of the Turks in the rear of the SAA.

What nonsense ?!

The "Tigers" of the Russian Federation accompany the Turks not to the checkpoints, but on the contrary from the checkpoints to the Turkish border!

[rruvim]

"The video shows an armored car" Tiger "at the head of the convoy along the Damascus-Aleppo highway, followed by Turkish Kirpi armored vehicles with special forces and trucks, the military KamAZ of the RF Armed Forces closes the cavalcade. Blokhin comments on this as "the expulsion of Turkish special forces from checkpoints" to the Turkish border. With the same success, I can comment that this action is exactly the opposite.

[frizzy]

Well, straight 25 Chapaev’s division in GV.Well and to hell with it !!!!

[rruvim]

Very similar, but not quite. The Chapaevites fled to the rear of the Kolchak Army as partisans and were not supported by aviation. No ...

[Russian_man]

I definitely don’t feel sorry for you. It would be better if you didn’t speak or write Russian at all. But with those guys I would serve ... as much as there already are.

[frizzy]

Well, straight 25 Chapaev’s division in GV.Well and to hell with it !!!!

[Pytnik]

Quote: Vladimir61

including the use of "Points", which they have not yet started up in business.

Already allowed in the whole deal

[rruvim]

As I understand it from the sofa: that when there is a war, you can trash waste products not only all the nearest ditches, but also throw under your feet. Ukro-warriors did this with success in the Donbass, and what do Syrian fighters also consider this territory (from where the Tochka-U launch was made) a stranger? Or is it the locals with the Barmalei crap ...

[Russian_man]

That is, the war should be so clean, tidy, right? ) .... You are already swollen from the "right life") Never go where it is dirty and swear - you will live longer.

[Grits]

Quote: Pytnik

Already allowed in the whole deal

But this is already a "tip" to Erdogan. Or as we like to say now - the message

[Karaul73]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Quote: Sentry73

Turkish air defense is strong.

Why is it strong?

With 400.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Sentry73

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Quote: Sentry73

Turkish air defense is strong.

Why is it strong?

With 400.

First, truncated, and secondly small.

[Sergst]

Quote: PSih2097

Quote: Sergst

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

Well, Israel and America do something like that, what prevents it?

That is, first we need to destroy our air defense in Syria, as the States in Iraq did? This is a completely different level of conflict.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Sergst

That is, first we need to destroy our air defense in Syria, as the States in Iraq did?

there, the humpbacks with Shevarnadze were saved - they surrendered the frequencies of our air defense systems delivered to Saddam from the USSR.

[1Alexey]

Quote: Sergst

That is, first we need to destroy our air defense in Syria, as the States in Iraq did? This is a completely different level of conflict.

At the same time, one should not forget that in Iraq there was a very outdated (even for that time) air defense, in no way comparable to the Syrian one.

[Dave36]

Catch a plus sign ... many questions, many

[serzh.kost]

after the words that Assad is destroying his citizens by the millions, there is even nothing to say. keep believing your "White Helmets"! yes, and not 216, but 21600 died!
yes, the Kremlin can be blamed for being mild-bodied, but small tasks have been accomplished quite large tasks - Syria has been preserved as a state, a little oil, a testing ground for weapons, an outpost on BV. Israel is not threatened by Syrian statehood and the Syrian-Jewish border was handed over without any problems. The United States is losing influence on BV and controls only oil, for the time being.
Only the son of a bitch remains with the imperial ambitions. here the Kremlin will have to make some reasonable concessions, which we will see.

[serzh.kost]

Quote: rubik

and white helmets and videos posted and a telephone rogue ... Assad and a brat and his father was a criminal, too, killed his citizens ....

thanks, laughed in general, trust your censor net further and you will be happy, permogy every day!

[serzh.kost]

you don’t have to take someone’s word for word, but take information from many sources and be able to analyze it. although what am I talking about if a person believes in the infamous white helmets ...
and capsloc here is not appropriate at all.

[Grits]

Quote: rubik

WELL DO YOU BELIEVE YOUR CENSORS .. THINK YOU HAPPINESS WILL BE?

Rudik, calm down already. Go celebrate the anniversary of the glorious victory near Debaltseve over the armored buryat ... Drink vodka, discuss the power of the strongest European army, the taste of the hedgehogs for Muscovites ... But there are more global topics for discussion ....

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: rubik

I realized this when America destroyed 3 Wagnerites in 216 minutes and Russia could not do anything

do not believe the white helmets then who to believe?

stop smoking socks

[SanSanych Gusev]

Well, what are the Syrians withdrawing troops already?

[Nastia makarova]

yeah, scared and ran to Damascus

[Vladimir SHajkin]

I think that Erdogan can’t start a war with Assad
1. contrary to all agreements,
2. CAA has already gained its combat experience and also sees this situation,
3. Yes, and our advisers are there for what?
4. Now the CAA is behaving restrained towards the Turks, and because there are not enough forces, and because the Americans and because ours are holding back, there are agreements, but ...
5. how useful is Erdogan, big?

[Mountain shooter]

A couple of thousand soldiers at three dozen roadblocks. You can certainly block these roadblocks by carefully following them. Well, they don’t attack in such small groups, and even in scattered ways ... They can hurt, but I don’t believe that these people sit there unattended. And with the supply they can have troubles ...

[GeorgeSev85]

Quote: Trevis

How crave!

According to the classics ..... "The whole world is in the dust"

[cat Rusich]

Erdogan can withdraw his troops without loss, but they will not give him back. "Sultan" can "show character" - but this is a conversation about whether V. Putin will "fit" for B. Assad (use of the Russian Aerospace Forces and Air Defense) or there will be another "Minsk Treaty" ...

[TatarinSSSR]

The reaction of Russia is very interesting if Turkey starts powerful active military operations against the Syrian army. On the one hand, Russia doesn’t want to get into a military conflict with Turkey, because it means the loss and death of the Russian military. On the other hand, not interfering and allowing the destruction of the already weak Syrian army, giving odds to the militants and turning the other cheek, will be a shame for Russia to the whole world.

[frolov andrey]

the author wrote nonsense. As a company of soldiers (even reinforced by 3-4 tanks) the division will create the problem, especially in the environment and under surveillance. They will be smeared 100 meters from the entrance and together with the entrance.
Admins will be slow enough to allow any writing to be written. You read such G and you are distracted from the real, you are wasting time in the empty. Oh, a good word bells and whistles.

[Russian_man]

you don’t really understand what the will to win and the soldier’s spirit are, why they are and what are based on, right? ... I'll tell you. The first is a sporting term, the more a judge gave a paw, the higher the will, and the second happens if you take off your shoes on a halt ... You do not deserve a better explanation.

[frolov andrey]

I don’t need any explanations that are not logical, like a bunch in the water. I logically wrote everything essentially. Give examples with the consciousness of the EG for those who have it EG. Hints without arguments on the context in the ass.

[Russian_man]

The last Russo-Turkish war may well be very short-lived. Personally, I have not needed Turkey as a country for a very long time. It will be more useless if they sell to someone else, then what they are going to fight themselves. Even worse is to do with those who want to intervene ... from the sea, such as imperceptibly. They need to make a national catastrophe ... it's time to do just that.

[Sergst]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: Sergst

And how to do this in conditions of sky closure by the Russian Aerospace Forces?

It is very simple to open this sky with the help of 200 Turkish aircraft. Here along the way, many people think that the Turks have aviation like Lithuania - 2 corn kernels.

Once again, this will not be a direct conflict with Syria, but with Russia. And the consequences for everyone will also be completely different.
So far, a possible solution is as follows: the Syrian aria leaves Idlib, but the airspace of Russia will control the abandoned territory, perhaps together with the Turkish forces and the militants will not be there. Not a good solution? Yes, but avoids a serious conflict. Everything - IMHO

[Shteffan]

The Syrian army should have reserves for such unexpected people to stop such threats. What are they digging in? One region cannot be taken by the whole army. There they should have thrown them with some caps.