The Network Case: Airsoft Training or Revolutionary Scenarios

547

Defendants in the Seti case, on February 10, 2020, found guilty and sentenced to long terms of imprisonment, are going to appeal the verdict.

The “Network” (banned in the Russian Federation) was recognized as a terrorist organization, and seven of its members were sentenced by the verdict of the Volga District Military Court: Pchelintsev to 18 years in prison, Shakursky to 16, Chernov to 14, Ivankin to 13, Kulkov - at 10, Kuksov - at 9, Sangynbaev - at 6. The young people themselves say: they are not guilty of anything, and the confession was knocked out by special services with the help of torture. Igor Shishkin, whose case was examined in a special order, on January 17, 2019 received 3,5 years in a general regime colony.



Recall that the Network case was initiated by the Federal Security Service in 2017. The residents of Penza, Moscow and St. Petersburg passed along it. Intelligence agencies established that these persons planned to carry out a series of resonant terrorist attacks in Russia and destabilize the situation in the country, for which they created a terrorist organization.

According to investigators, by 2016, the “Network” took shape in a hierarchical structure with a clear distribution of responsibilities of participants. Its main goal was the implementation of the revolution in Russia. Allegedly, a certain scenario of an armed coup called “Hour" H "was developed. In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, and the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.

To implement their plans, members of the organization conducted regular training near Penza. They practiced on them the possible tactics of action during the riots. The convicts themselves, however, claim that these were only airsoft classes.

Explosives, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances, as well as political literature, including the works of the classics of Marxist thought, were seized from some detainees during searches. Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value. Together with Capital, the GRU special forces textbook and several anarchist brochures also confiscated during the searches were “sentenced” to burning.

The resonance of the Network business was enormous. Firstly, many circumstances of the case still raise questions from the public - these are the statements of the accused about the torture applied to them, and extremely harsh sentences.

Secondly, an underground organization was planned in Russia (if you accept the official version), which planned the whole revolution. Moreover, the organization is not Islamic, not right-wing, but ultra-left, inspired by communist ideas. And the fact that this organization included completely prosperous, previously not convicted, young people - students, workers, even an entrepreneur - is also very revealing.

First about the verdict. Eighteen years is a very tough measure. Recall that in the sensational case of the "Amazons" who literally shot police officers in the Rostov region and were found guilty of the brutal murder of an officer of the Nizhny Novgorod SOBR with his wife and two young children, the defendants received approximately the same sentences - from 16 years to 21 years in prison.

But on the account of the gang of "Amazons" - 10 proven murders, among the victims - law enforcement officers, children. In addition to the killings, he was charged with banditry, illegal traffic weapons, many episodes of robbery, theft and assault on the lives of police officers. The same terms (15-20 years) were received and received by key members of the criminal groups of the “dashing nineties”, which accounted for dozens of human lives, banditry, robberies and robberies, and other serious crimes.

It is clear that the verdict in the Network case is intended not only to punish its participants for their planned actions, but also to frighten the rest of the potential radicals: they say you will create such groups - you will also sit for a long time. Tough sentences against radicals are becoming the norm. But, unfortunately, they do not always look justified in the eyes of society. For example, 19-year-old Yan Sidorov and 22-year-old Vladislav Mordasov received 6,5 years each in a maximum security colony for a picket that they staged in Rostov-on-Don. They were also accused of trying to revolution.

Meanwhile, the mere presence of people who are young and far from being the most antisocial in their way of life and behavior, ready to embark on the path of struggle with the authorities, the political system that has developed in Russia, is a very alarming fact.

Terrorists need to be punished, and punished severely. Members of extremist groups who are just about to embark on the path of terrorist activity must be punished in order to protect society and the state from them. And no lamentation about the punishment of “children”, who are 20-27 years old, in this case does not need to be taken into account. Adults, adults should understand what they are doing and what the consequences may be.

But without fighting the causes of their appearance and spread, terrorism and extremism cannot be defeated. And in each such case, one should not immediately speak of the “hand of Western intelligence services” or the “Ukrainian trace”. Unfortunately, the social reality in modern Russia is such that there are more and more people dissatisfied with it. The deepest social polarization, progressive poverty, corruption, isolation of government representatives from the people is far from a complete list of those reasons, which in themselves are enormous provoking factors for social fermentation. And these factors pose an equally serious threat to Russia's national security.
547 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -36
    19 February 2020 12: 22
    they are children! And the fact that the animals were blown up was what they thought about Russia! They wanted us to make life a fairy tale by building communism!
    There are enough of them, only one difference - there is just whining, and these hazel grouse decided to raise their seats.
    For which they were punished. They would crow about the revolution as well-known forum users - they would be marshals and go free

    And in each such case it’s not worthwhile to speak immediately about the “hand of the Western special services” or the “Ukrainian trace”.


    wassat and these here are generally no sideways. They have just been pumping money and the information field of any disease for 30 years.

    Indeed, in all countries that pump our fighters with grants, the problem of poverty and justice has been resolved.

    PS Minus brings panic to the Kremlin, Putin packs his bags and is ready to run from The Hague
    1. +37
      19 February 2020 12: 31
      Quote: s-t Petrov
      Would crow about revolution

      You crow here.
      1. -36
        19 February 2020 12: 33
        You crow here.


        20 years of continuous pain and patience have made you a worthy grant fighter, I think.
        Tyutyukin could and you will succeed.

        You need a collective application from patriots with VO - they say so and so - we’ve been shaking it for 20 years - we want investment in the fight.

        Open YouTube Channel - Military Review - Realities
        1. -35
          19 February 2020 13: 57
          as well as political literature, including the writings of the classics of Marxist thought. Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value.
          There is some pervasive universal justice in this. I believe that every lover of revolutionary romance, Bolshevism, the 37th year and the Gulag should forcibly receive a homeopathic dose of this very Gulag, as the heroes of the article. Useful for education and mental development.
          1. +1
            19 February 2020 17: 18
            "Entered" into the "Network" .....
            1. +4
              19 February 2020 21: 27
              What an interesting video! wink What details! You can be a terrorist, push drugs, concurrently be a sex maniac and get only 6 years old! belay It’s scary to think about the affairs of the leader. Or do we still don’t know something?
              1. +10
                20 February 2020 02: 05
                It’s scary to think about the affairs of the leader. Or do we still don’t know something?

                Instead of studying the May Decrees, he regularly read Kapital Marx. And during interrogation, it turned out that he did not support the amendments to the Constitution. The "repeat offender" is evident. For such it is not a sin to plant a nuclear device, let alone a Saiga and drugs. So now the "Star Factory" is working for the security forces. wink
                If there was a man, there would be an Article (C)
          2. +2
            20 February 2020 14: 08
            Yes, you are a dense person Vyacheslav Viktorovich and an ignoramus who grew up on propaganda. You yourself know how to think? Or within the older kindergarten group?
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 14: 29
              Oh really? And how was it in reality, enlighten?
              1. +5
                20 February 2020 14: 47
                Please, children are always maximalists and a little intolerant of injustice and political pranks of older uncles. And if, relatively speaking, they stray into "terrorist" groups, then there are prerequisites for this.
                This is the case if this case is not fabricated.
                As for the Gulag, you don’t need to use pro-government agitation prop in serious conversations, it’s the same as turning up a heavenly hundred under a coup, the figure is beautiful and sonorous. If we take the history of Russia, there will be many facts when people were massively massacred, and you didn’t be surprised at this, and not only in Russia.
                Those who died quietly from the results of the Yeltsin revolution do not interest you, I see, but Stalin's "genocide" does not give rest!
                In the 90s, we lost so much people in criminal wars, so many died from poverty, lack of money, lack of medicine, Stalin is a saint in comparison with the silent killer Yeltsin! But Yeltsin cannot be blamed ... why? Because he fought the tyranny of Stalin! That is why the name of Stalin has not left the media for decades. This is an excuse for all modern power, its legitimacy!
                1. -2
                  20 February 2020 14: 51
                  The proposal to choose between Yeltsin and Stalin is a standard logical mistake, known as https://ru.rationalwiki.org/wiki/False_Dilemma
                  1. 0
                    20 February 2020 16: 50
                    I had no proposal to choose between Stalin and Yeltsin.
                    Firstly, the figures are not commensurate.
                    Secondly, I talked about something else.
                    The fact that the approach to the analysis of the politician’s activities, his personality should proceed from the results of his affairs and taking into account the historical features of the time in which this policy had to be corrected.
                    As for logical errors - a standard logical error is about nothing. This is not an axiom or a postulate. And it was the use of standard logical errors that led individuals to victories.
                    So I do not advise you to hide behind existing theories, their application is very limited.
                    Think, read, observe real life and analyze.
                    Threat. I want to add it was Yeltsin’s political scientists who built their propaganda using the error you indicated. I remember very well how the Yeltsin ugliness was smoothed out, frightening the people by returning to Stalin and the Gulag. The people bought themselves, the victims of the Stalinist regime wailed too much from all the media. I don’t try to justify Stalin in everything, but I understand perfectly how easily someone else’s work is evaluated.
      2. +4
        19 February 2020 14: 51
        Hi Vladimir hi , and he faithfully believes in everything that is whistled to him on the TV, so he crows without getting off the perch. And we, and, "blessed memory of the Office", and its current hypostasis of the FSB have never been particularly scrupulous. They will do what they are ordered to do and will not cross themselves.
        1. -1
          19 February 2020 15: 11
          They will do what they are ordered and will not cross themselves


          Especially for the next star on shoulder straps. Well, or for grandmas
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. +13
            19 February 2020 16: 17
            For the Caucasus and for those who shed blood, I did not say a word. Do not confuse "God's gift and scrambled eggs". In Soviet times, there were no Caucasians, and the Office was there and was "refined" until the complete collapse of the USSR.
            And you already got down from the perch

            You do not need to poke either, you will not surprise anyone with rudeness, but it characterizes you yourself perfectly.
            1. -17
              19 February 2020 16: 21
              he sacredly believes in everything that is whistled on the box, so he crowes without getting down from a perch.


              You do not need to poke either, you will not surprise anyone with rudeness


              are you offended Do not. I don’t take offense at you

              For the Caucasus and for those who pour blood, I did not say a word.

              Well, at least plus this one?
              Especially for the next star on shoulder straps. Well, or for grandmas


              1. +9
                19 February 2020 16: 25
                Talking with you about throwing peas on the wall is the same reaction, only the wall, unlike you, does not suffer from being rude. And to be offended ... don’t take too much on yourself, it’s just unethical to be offended by a certain category of people. request
                1. 0
                  20 February 2020 02: 29
                  And to be offended ... don’t take too much on yourself, it’s just unethical to be offended by a certain category of people.
                  Konstantin, as a connoisseur of Russian history and a very well-read person, should you not know that we have always treated such characters with condescension, they even have a 100% "reservation" from prison. Moreover, in some countries such people are considered a "sign of God" and worshiped. As for me, I just understand that Mother Nature sometimes has to have rest. wink
                  1. -2
                    20 February 2020 04: 40
                    Sometimes this Mother just jumps off, and this is harmful to the human population. smile
                    1. +1
                      20 February 2020 04: 54
                      Nevertheless, "weekend kids" consider themselves to be the crown of evolution. And those who do not agree with their "official" point of view have already been appointed "Untermensch". "Urya-skakuasy", what can you take from them ... request
                    2. 0
                      20 February 2020 07: 00
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      Sometimes this Mother just jumps off, and this is harmful to the human population.

                      genetic fluctuations cannot be undone. moreover, gene mutations are part of the evolutionary process.
                      everything is normal. smile
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        19 February 2020 15: 27
        Such fighters against the regime of "Narodnaya Volya and Rakhmetovs" have already been in Russia to Matushka. Because of their good intentions, the sea has been spilled with blood of the people .. Enough. It's time to stop the revolutionary fervor of the girls and boys who bought into the slogans. Cut off mercilessly And most importantly .. get the puppeteers!
      4. +10
        19 February 2020 17: 00
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        You crow here.

        Without even thinking about the topic of crowing. And the topic is simple. The authorities are afraid! Therefore, such a long time. And he is afraid because he feels guilty about himself. Knows that it was necessary to work for the good of the people, and not for the good of a separate handful of "people"
        1. -5
          22 February 2020 09: 05
          She’s not afraid, she’s just fed up with fussing with militant fools.
          1. +4
            22 February 2020 11: 27
            Quote: Cyrus
            She’s not afraid, she’s just fed up with fussing with militant fools.

            Have you ever thought that this, as you say, “belligerence”, from despair, from the fact that the authorities do not pay any attention to their problems, generated by the authorities themselves?
            1. 0
              22 February 2020 17: 14
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              that this, as you say - "belligerence", from despair, from the fact that

              Here it is not necessary, but ... The arrested were by no means beggars.
              1. +1
                22 February 2020 18: 40
                Quote: Dart2027
                Here it is not necessary, but ... The arrested were by no means beggars.

                Do you think that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities?
                1. 0
                  22 February 2020 22: 43
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities

                  So what was their hopelessness? Hopelessness is when they die of hunger.
                  1. 0
                    22 February 2020 23: 02
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities

                    So what was their hopelessness? Hopelessness is when they die of hunger.

                    Not only. When people see injustice with their own eyes and can do nothing about it. Isn't that hopelessness?
                    1. +2
                      22 February 2020 23: 11
                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      When people see injustice with their own eyes and can do nothing about it. Isn't that hopelessness?

                      This is called beautiful words. "Wars are always sacred for those who kindle them, otherwise who will go to fight." Have you read Gone With the Wind?
                      1. +1
                        22 February 2020 23: 24
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        These are called beautiful words.

                        Any words can be ridiculed or questioned if there are no other arguments.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        "Wars are always sacred for those who kindle them, otherwise who will go to fight."

                        I have no opinion on the topic of the article Why? Because: 1. I do not trust journalists. 2. I do not trust the police. Both are guilty of the fact that I do not trust them. I won’t give examples of their lies about journalists, you already know this without me, but about the police; how long has it been a drug-trafficking affair with an opposition journalist?
                        Therefore, in the "Network" case, I remain neutral. If what I incriminate them is true, then I angrily condemn! And if the case is fabricated with the aim of removing objectionable local authorities? Is this option possible? Alas, it is possible.
                        Of course I did. But ... I like our classics more
                      2. +1
                        23 February 2020 13: 07
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Any words can be ridiculed or questioned if
                        There is a prose of life. Beautiful words about injustice were spoken by both Syrian terrorists and Ukrainian Maydauns.
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        If what I incriminate is true, then I - angrily condemn! And if the case is fabricated in order to remove objectionable local authorities?

                        If this were so, then in our time and with the level of development of the Internet, this would have been trumpeted for a long time across all networks and forums. They were not objectionable. Whether they reached the realization of their plans or not, one can still doubt, but one could believe that they were preparing.
                      3. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There is a prose of life. Beautiful words about injustice were spoken by both Syrian terrorists and Ukrainian Maydauns.

                        You can’t argue with you here. This is true.
                        Quote: Dart2027

                        If this were so, then in our time and with the level of development of the Internet, this would have been trumpeted for a long time across all networks and forums.

                        I do not "get along" on the Internet, so I am not in the courses. It remains to agree with you. But, the question arises - what did they want? To commit a terrorist attack for the sake of a terrorist attack? Hard to believe.
                      4. +1
                        24 February 2020 15: 22
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        But, the question arises - what did they want?

                        It is possible that they themselves did not know. Perhaps self-affirming. Perhaps they were simply fooled by people smarter and more educated (like those who are lured into ISIS). There are many options.
        2. +3
          23 February 2020 20: 58
          for similar crimes under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926 shooting......
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          . Power fears! Because such a long time. And he is afraid because he feels guilty about himself. Knows that it was necessary to work for the good of the people, and not for the good of a separate handful of "people"
          - USSR goes ALSO feared and felt guilt behind you? fool fool
          Any the state protects itself from attacks
          1. 0
            23 February 2020 22: 12
            Quote: your1970
            - Does the USSR come out ALSO afraid and felt guilty for itself?

            There are such concepts - a crime, an attempt to commit a crime and an intention to commit a crime.
            In the case of the "network" we see exactly the intention. In the USSR, such terms were not given for the intention.
            Do you have confidence that they would move from intentions to an attempt? I do not have.
            1. 0
              24 February 2020 01: 31
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              . In the USSR for intention such terms were not given.

              Uuuuppsss !! that is, all those who were repressed for 58 and others, in the 50-60s Rehabilitated ILLEGAL ??? It means they all seriously wanted to overthrow the Soviet regime ????? Once, according to you, "they did not give time for intentions in the USSR" ????
              fool fool
              1. -1
                24 February 2020 11: 11
                Quote: your1970
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                . In the USSR for intention such terms were not given.

                Uuuuppsss !! that is, all those who were repressed for 58 and others, in the 50-60s Rehabilitated ILLEGAL ??? It means they all seriously wanted to overthrow the Soviet regime ????? Once, according to you, "they did not give time for intentions in the USSR" ????
                fool fool

                First of all, twist at your temple. Heard enough tales about "illegally" repressed and let us draw conclusions. 1. So that you know, not everyone was rehabilitated, and they stopped considering cases, because there was no one to rehabilitate, with rare exceptions. Rehabilitated a couple of hundred, regardless of their crimes, for people like you, for show and closed the rehabilitation company.
                Imagine, seriously wanted to overthrow, someone power, someone only Stalin, someone else what.
                And 2. There are crimes that are not socially dangerous and the punishments for them are minimal. But time comes and they become massive, then the legislator toughens penalties for these crimes. This must also be taken into account.
                Why do you believe more in propaganda journalistic tales than the research of serious scientists? Just because you feel like it? Are you into self-deception?
                1. +1
                  24 February 2020 19: 15
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  1. That you know, not all were rehabilitated, and stopped consider cases because rehabilitate there was nobody, with rare exceptions. Rehabilitated a couple of hundred, in spite of their crimes, for those like you, for show-offs and closed the rehabilitation company.
                  Are you weird .... fool fool
                  It’s actually the USSR rehabilitated - not current
                  and the numbers of rehabilitated even then were published
                  "AT 1954-1961 years behind lack of corpus delicti were rehabilitated 737 182 person was refused in rehabilitation 208 448 convicted; at 1962-1983 years were rehabilitated 157 055 person failures received 22 754 person. "
                  further
                  "In 1988-1989, the cases for 856 582 people were reviewed, 844 740 people were rehabilitated on them."
                  God be with them - with the rehabilitated in 88-89 ...
                  take off God - even with the rehabilitated in 1954-1961 ....
                  There are enough numbers refuseniks - 208 448 people. These people, in the opinion of the Soviet government, were preparing for its overthrow, carried out terrorist acts against her, campaigned and the whole other assortment of article 58. The bulk of the village was precisely for intentions - not for actions
                  And if you try to contradict this - you will need to give examples of at least hundreds of terrorist attacks - otherwise it’s quite obvious that they sat down INTENTIONS.And I don’t even doubt that there were people who wanted to overthrow the Soviet power, but nobody went further than the idle talk in the kitchen. Otherwise there would have been terrorist attacks and a lot ... And the Soviet government defended themselves as best they could - they arrested for intentions when they found out about them ...
    2. +9
      19 February 2020 12: 35
      where does this info about animals come from?
      1. -12
        19 February 2020 12: 37
        One of the detained adolescents admits that he was planning to blow up the Kerch school number 15. In addition, he says that he mocked the kittens. Earlier it was reported that the test "test" explosive devices teenagers conducted on animals.


        damn it about other teenagers of terrorists. This in Kerch the other day detained clowns
        1. +12
          19 February 2020 13: 18
          And he just wanted to be louder, as he said there "to crow."
      2. +11
        19 February 2020 12: 37
        And there, in a stream of consciousness, Tyutyukin flashed some sort.
        1. -18
          19 February 2020 12: 40
          Tyutyukin somehow flashed.


          Do not recognize the military with the regime? Who decided with the Georgians how the Kremlin would stagger.
          Well, you and the opposition

          1. +17
            19 February 2020 12: 48
            Quote: s-t Petrov
            Do not recognize the military with the regime? Who decided with the Georgians how the Kremlin will stagger. Well, you and the opposition
            It’s strange, you know about Tyutukin, but I don’t, but for some reason I am an oppositionist.
            1. -30
              19 February 2020 12: 48
              It’s strange, you know about Tyutukin, but I don’t, but for some reason I am an oppositionist.

              I love when these begin to bustle)

              1. +15
                19 February 2020 12: 53
                You dragged Tyutyukin, I first found out about him here. What's wrong?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. +8
                    19 February 2020 13: 05
                    You talk almost like Bonacieux, only his "Cardinal and the haberdasher" and you have "Tyutyukin and Rossiyushka"
                    Quote: s-t Petrov
                    how in Russia can Tyutukin not know
                    By the way, you obviously called Russia scornfully, where do you write yourself from?
                    1. -13
                      19 February 2020 13: 18
                      scornfully? What is it like? Cite
                      I may not understand what in this life
                      1. -14
                        19 February 2020 13: 42
                        For the sake of interest, who here still does not know Tyutyukin-Udaltsov?
                        You just need to unsubscribe, "minus" is not about this post.
                        Are there any from Russia?


                      2. +4
                        20 February 2020 01: 34
                        Well, I don’t know your Tyutyukin, so what? Do I have to know all your friends?
        2. +7
          19 February 2020 13: 19
          Rather in the "stream of" unconsciousness "
    3. -6
      19 February 2020 12: 44
      Until now, many circumstances of the case raise questions from the public - these are statements by the accused about torture inflicted on them, and extremely harsh sentences.
      In liberal clique cause exactly laughing They have so much material, such evidence, torture is no longer needed.
      1. 0
        22 February 2020 09: 07
        By the way, yes, we expect high-profile cases and dog whining of liberals).
    4. +25
      19 February 2020 12: 57
      These did not blow up animals - do not confuse with the Kerch followers of Roslyakov. And the conclusion in the article is correct-power by its actions itself provokes radicalism.
      1. -12
        19 February 2020 13: 19
        power itself provokes radicalism.


        what are these? And when the miners pounded helmets, because CHILDREN were starving in families where there were radicals? When was there no food in the country? When the legs of the bush were on the shelves.
        When teachers sat for half a year without a salary, why was radicalism under the skin?
        Where was all the revolutionary vomit when Yukos bought the Communist Party? When Zyuganov jumped off the helm, where were the leftists of this site?
        When did you fly for Aeroflot money to borrow in the USA, where was the company of red revolutionaries with VO?

        I know where they all were.
        1. +12
          19 February 2020 13: 49
          You ask so if you do not live in Russia. Or are you one of those who feel good under any authority, such as the Mikhalkov clan.
          1. 0
            19 February 2020 14: 10
            Well, they were not, right?
            more precisely, they were, just there was no VO forum and we did not know about them
            Then the officers at a side job night shot at each other for the interests of bandits

            It was bright at that time, no hints of a bad life

            power itself provokes radicalism.

            not about the 1990s at all. It happened in 2020. Power provoked radicalism of these pets


            Or are you one of those who feel good under any authority


            then I was petty, looked and was crazy about what your generation was doing and around yours. How Yeltsin was chosen, how the USSR was pumped, how Yeltsin was chosen for the second time. How coffins came from the Caucasus. I remember well. News watched sitting on the floor. I read this entire radicalism when it’s now on the forum ..

        2. +19
          19 February 2020 14: 58
          And where was Putin V.V.? Administration of St. Petersburg, then moved to Moscow: Administration of the President of the Russian Federation B.N. Yeltsin, director of the FSB, chairman of the government. It was all in the very 90s. Therefore, do not separate the current government from the previous one; it continues its policy by adjusting methods.
          1. -15
            19 February 2020 15: 23
            And where was Putin V.V.?

            he seized power from the KGB and stopped the lawlessness that I witnessed firsthand.
            Therefore, do not separate the current government from the previous one.

            Yes. all of the CPSU are communists.
            But this does not remove previous questions.
            1. -1
              22 February 2020 16: 44
              Kindergarten! Putin seized power))) We must be friends with our heads!
              1. +1
                22 February 2020 17: 15
                Quote: Campanella
                Kindergarten! Putin seized power)))

                Remember where Berezovsky died there?
                1. 0
                  23 February 2020 01: 28
                  Putin is a follower of the Yeltsin’s course. He had to do what Yeltsin could not do — to collect the vertical of power. It turned out to be easier to do for the siloviki than for the First Secretary of the MGK and the candidate for the Politburo, Yeltsin.
                  In economics, Putin’s policies are failing and leading the country to revolution.
                  1. -1
                    23 February 2020 13: 21
                    Quote: Campanella
                    Putin is a follower of the Yeltsin’s course.
                    And so those who adored Yeltsin hate him.
                    Quote: Campanella
                    In economics, Putin’s policies are failing and leading the country to revolution.
                    Something is imperceptible.
                    1. 0
                      23 February 2020 14: 34
                      I did not like Yeltsin and with great skepticism, to put it mildly, relate to Putin. Obviously, there are things that he did with a plus sign, but I doubt the motive. On the surface, the desire to preserve personal power and wealth, Russia itself and the people are clearly not favorites. Here, personal interest is more visible against the background of Russia. I can, of course, be mistaken, but have not yet managed to stumble upon the objective causes of what is happening, maybe they hide them from the people, so as not to injure our psyche?
                      1. +1
                        24 February 2020 15: 31
                        Quote: Campanella
                        but I doubt the motive. On the surface, the desire to maintain personal power and wealth

                        You know, in my opinion this is the most reliable incentive. In the United States, presidents, congressmen, senators can change, but in politics only the name of the country they are bombing changes. And I don’t believe a damn thing that the oligarchs there cheer for their people. They share with him, because this people is one of the foundations of their well-being. The problem of Russia is that from the time of RI, our elite did not understand one simple fact - at home they are princes, and in no other country. In the USSR it was the same.
                        Putin is not righteous? Yes, not at all. He is a professional intelligence officer, who survived the years of Perestroika, and without hiding himself to some wilderness, eventually became the head of state and seized power from the seven-bankers. What are his skeletons in the closet is better not even to think. But it always does. Power is always in those who are better than others who can fight for power and eliminate competitors. That is life.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        19 February 2020 13: 27
        Quote: 210ox
        These did not blow up animals


        These threw bottles at the military registration and enlistment office on the night of February 23.
        Trying to kill the drunken duty officer to give the people of Russia happiness ...
        1. -9
          19 February 2020 13: 29
          congratulated the military on the holiday. Warriors of the Empire. Here it is vomit, for which pseudo-wafers are drowned here
          The attendant separated these illnesses from happiness, yes.

          Interestingly, there at least one survivor for the happiness of the people served in the Native Army? Or are these revolutionaries as usual ...
          1. -1
            23 February 2020 01: 36
            What kind of revolutionaries can be in a totalitarian country?
            There was more democracy under Brezhnev than under the democrat Putin. People could defend their rights at the grassroots level. And now, don't get ready for more than one, immediately the cosmonauts arrive ... It is clear that there are enemies all around and the people are the enemy of the current government. Because how to solve the simple question of how to live on 10 sput the popularly elected cannot. Even when discussing the constitution, he called the people "this".
        2. 0
          23 February 2020 01: 31
          Who are these? Network? Admitted themselves?
      3. +5
        19 February 2020 14: 56
        Quote: 210ox
        These did not blow up animals - do not confuse with the Kerch followers of Roslyakov. And the conclusion in the article is correct-power by its actions itself provokes radicalism.

        I hope you do not justify them here? belay Send all sick revolutionary terrorists to uranium mines, since the death penalty is not provided.
        1. +2
          19 February 2020 18: 02
          True, I do not condone. About uranium mines. Normal hard workers work there. But our leaders would not have any shoals and attempts to cover their asses, starting with the abolition of the column against everyone and ending with the pension reform, there would not have been these r-Evolutionaries.
          1. -4
            19 February 2020 18: 23
            With all due respect to those working in the mines, I want to rot these "kids". These revolutionaries can't wait to drown the country in blood, well, let them take it themselves. And yet you justify a little, so you can justify everyone. Than the Kerch shooter is worse, because they were not friends with him in college, understand and forgive. If radical Islamists cut the heads of the unbelievers, then the unbelievers, Allah tells them, to understand and forgive. So chtoli?
            1. +4
              20 February 2020 09: 10
              As for the attacks I do not justify in any way. At the same time innocent people perish. Do not like the power-create a political force, fight. True, the political field has been cleaned up in our country. Kremlin power is opposed by a bunch of freaks. And so I have to spoil the ballot in the elections. I do not like either those or those.
            2. -1
              20 February 2020 23: 56
              Quote: Prjanik
              these "kids" want to rot.

              At this stage, it’s enough time to get away with it. And in the "threatened period" such ghouls will disappear without a trace, especially since then not a single kurva will blink in their favor.
            3. 0
              23 February 2020 14: 39
              Whom did these young people kill? Do you want to rot them? You are worse than the most bloody despots and tyrants. A victim of propaganda who has lost her mind and is ready to kill everyone in a row! People like you, with blind hatred, destroyed people under any power, believing in their infallibility!
        2. 0
          23 February 2020 01: 40
          Are you a doctor? Do you make diagnoses here?
          I personally do not believe the authorities! Grudinin was mixed with shit, drugs were planted to the journalist! It is not yet known who it is necessary to treat with mines.
          It is not known who the bell tolls ...
          1. +2
            23 February 2020 21: 08
            Quote: Campanella
            Grudinin mixed with shit
            What is there to interfere with?
            SPK-AO-ZAO .... classic scheme of the 90s ...
            the owner of a closed joint-stock company can sell his property at any time to anyone who wants it (even to Trump !!!!) - unlike a joint-stock company, even the consent of the general meeting of shareholders is not necessary ....
            and there will be CJSC "Kolkhoz named after Lenin and Trump" ....
            you would be in a village (and not in the Moscow region !!) you would ask about him - the outback would tell you a lot how such units bought up and reformatted property
            1. -1
              23 February 2020 21: 25
              I’m not talking about this, he was taken there for revenues not specified in the declaration ... but the billionaire and latifundist Mishustin easily became the prime minister and no one really wondered where the money came from.
              1. +1
                24 February 2020 01: 24
                If Grudinin would transfer his shares to the Communist Party in the Communist Party, there wouldn’t be any questions ..... otherwise it wouldn’t look like a millionaire at the head of the Communist Party ..... not liberal or conservative or socialist ....... .

                And so ..... if he even could not figure out his accounts and gave reason ... why do we need such happiness?
                1. 0
                  24 February 2020 10: 10
                  The question is not this, but double standards.
      4. -1
        21 February 2020 23: 24
        I would say, not by my actions but by the very fact of my existence.
    5. +6
      19 February 2020 13: 30
      Well, what answer for the sketch about "blown up animals" or silently silently silently merge?
      1. -7
        19 February 2020 13: 32
        I understand that reading is not necessary to ask, but try. I already wrote above that I confused these clowns with other animals that were going to revolution in Kerch.

        Well, in fact - you need to push both these and those. I don’t see a difference between these animals. It makes no difference to me with what kind of rags they are hiding.

        Both of them wanted to kill the Officers of Russia. Because in a different way this dirt can’t be realized

        1. +2
          19 February 2020 13: 33
          I didn’t see it. Accepted
    6. +3
      20 February 2020 14: 22
      If you believe the judges and the competent authorities, then society is at the beginning of the outbreak of autocratic power. Narodovoltsy and so on ... If, of course, history repeats itself, but it repeats, whoever knows it can judge it, people step on the historical rake at intervals. In this option, one can predict a further increase in the confrontation between the authorities and society. The authorities will make concessions too late, and even then the concessions will not satisfy anyone. And again, great 1917 ... In this regard, the power apologists only worsen the situation, bringing it to extreme forms, creating power for those who have unnecessary illusions. Without the support of the people, no government can stand. And if you just imitate it and stuff your pockets, then .. you yourself understand.
      In this regard, the response of our guarantor to the question of how to live for 10 sput is very remarkable.
      He replied that it was difficult to do this, but the most interesting thing was that he was asked the second question about his salary, to which he answered without blinking, that he did not have the highest salary! So you might think this fact relieves him of responsibility for the situation. It’s his competence to arrange corifans for posts, and how to answer for their activities is not him. That's what you want, then think after that. And what should children learn from this?
      1. 0
        22 February 2020 09: 12
        Oh, just don’t say that you never used your connections and never asked anyone)).
    7. 0
      22 February 2020 09: 04
      Petrov. Are you sick or on heavy drugs? Who is packing their bags there, and how are the problems with poverty and inequality solved in the states and Britain?
  2. -1
    19 February 2020 12: 24
    A revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates. Not enough. Timing is about nothing. In the USA they would have given 150 years.
    1. +7
      19 February 2020 12: 29
      Quote: Tank jacket
      A revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates. Not enough. Timing is about nothing. In the USA they would have given 150 years.

      In the USA, before creating such a "Network" they will think a thousand times. And if they try, then for sure, they will be shocked for 150 years, "without the right to correspond."
      1. -2
        19 February 2020 12: 32
        In the USA, before creating such a "Network"


        there all the "fighters" are registered and are forcibly treated.

        American psychiatrists (unlike ours) have long included active protests against the authorities in the list of deviant manifestations that require identification and forced treatment in childhood. The low protest in the United States (unlike Europe) is explained by the fact that the opposition is recorded as a child and begins to be treated in a madhouse. In total, 3-5% of people have a tendency to fight against power.


        We would have here their psychiatrists for a couple of weeks wassat diagnoses would be distributed

        1. +9
          19 February 2020 13: 17
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          The low protest in the United States (unlike Europe) is explained by the fact that the opposition is recorded as a child and begins to be treated in a madhouse.

          Yes yes

          Quote: s-t Petrov
          The United States, before creating such a "Network" will think a thousand times

          The United States recently took such a group. But not with airsoft guns and Capital, but with stingers and IEDs.
        2. +2
          19 February 2020 13: 21
          Uh-huh, that's why such "registered" with weapons are shown in all their glory, and then they say that they say they were under a hood, registered, but they did not take into account something
        3. 0
          20 February 2020 16: 09
          In the past, there were psychiatrists and diagnoses in the USSR. It was right, but it didn't help much in the end. Moreover, at every opportunity, power is being denied from the Soviet past. Something other than diagnoses is needed. Probably, to create public confidence that the state is their state, for their benefit and to reinforce this confidence financially, legally. In every way. The late Soviet Socialist Republic had big problems with this, and the modern Russian Federation had no problems in this regard only during the Russian Spring.
      2. -16
        19 February 2020 12: 37
        ALL revolutions and terrorist attacks are planned in London. Therefore, you need to judge for treason.
        1. +4
          19 February 2020 13: 31
          Cuban also planned in London and carried out?
          1. -5
            19 February 2020 13: 44
            But what about? It's just that Fidel, like Stalin, outplayed the Anglo-Saxons ... Read Rakovsky's "Red Symphony".
      3. +10
        19 February 2020 13: 44
        Quote: tihonmarine
        In the USA, before creating such a "Network"

        There are 25.000 shooting clubs in the USA. And people in them are often with such radical views ... That Mr. Shiklgruber, against their background, is a conservative democrat. It’s just that in these same USA more than 230 million of them were officially shot at hand. From lady’s pistols to heavy machine guns and art tools. And with illegal they estimate far beyond 300. Therefore, the authorities there behave a little more courteous in relation to their citizens.
        1. 0
          19 February 2020 13: 57
          Send photos from occupy Wall Street? Or tell about the executions by police citizens? Will you bring statistics?
          1. -2
            20 February 2020 07: 49
            Quote: Tank jacket
            Send photos from occupy Wall Street?

            1. Photo above.
            2. Occupy Wall Street - Colony homeless people hippies in the city center. They do not make a political protest (unlike the photo above), but arrange a day of disobedience. Overly protracted. Therefore, it was not the federals who dispersed them, but the city hall, all of a sudden. No one wants to see this shit under the windows every day.
            Quote: Tank jacket
            Or tell about the executions by police citizens?

            1. Garbage - the shame of America.
            2. For civilian post-shootings, they sit quite neatly.
            3. What does the crime in question have to do with political actions?
      4. +1
        21 February 2020 23: 28
        and it was not America that was the Great October Revolution. but in Russia.
    2. +7
      19 February 2020 12: 43
      Quote: Tank jacket
      Revolution is millions of victims
      Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that unleash usually thrown off bankrupt tops. An example of a revolution without millions of victims, the Cuban revolution.
      1. -9
        19 February 2020 12: 46
        Was Cuban rylovucia in Ukraine?
        1. +15
          19 February 2020 12: 50
          The Cuban revolution was in Cuba, Cuba is such a country, it is very far from Ukraine.
          1. -5
            19 February 2020 12: 51
            So they themselves gave the answer. Russia is also far from Cuba. And Ukraine is near laughing
            1. +9
              19 February 2020 12: 57
              Was there a revolution in Ukraine? Here in Cuba, it was and went through the whole country, and in Ukraine there was a coup in the capital, where the chimes kicked a dumb raptor. I'm talking about the revolution, and you're talking about the coup. Very different things.
              1. 0
                19 February 2020 13: 03
                Read carefully the article about the planned scenarios of these rylovutsioners ...
                "Hour." In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.
                1. +4
                  19 February 2020 13: 11
                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  three possible scenarios
                  According to the organs.
                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  the most desired is a "popular uprising"
                  Of the three scenarios, this is the most desirable. Read carefully ... By the way, they "planned a revolution" according to the investigators, or maybe they actually planned actions in case of already occurring scenarios, and this greatly changes the matter.
                  1. +1
                    19 February 2020 13: 39
                    Why did they need explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances ??? These are the same Ishilovites in Syria and Bandera in Ukraine.
                    1. +2
                      19 February 2020 17: 10
                      Quote: Tank jacket
                      Why did they need explosive devices, grenades

                      Well, in Udmurtia (EMNIP), the guy was given 2 years for an airsoft grenade, recognizing that this is IED ...
                      1. -3
                        19 February 2020 20: 41
                        Maybe he had a too powerful airsoft grenade?
                      2. +2
                        21 February 2020 22: 25
                        No-no-no, I immediately remember the "wonderful" case from Syktyvkar. There they gave 2 years conditionally to an airsoft player for IEDs made of firecrackers, toilet paper rolls and striking elements made of dry peas. It sounds like an anecdote based on absurdity, but this is a real criminal case with a real verdict.
                      3. +2
                        22 February 2020 17: 49
                        No, not at once I recall the case of how more people died in the nineties than in the Second World War. Even we do not celebrate their deaths in the nineties, as the 75th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War. Maybe we remember standing without clinking glasses, those who did not fit into the MARKET ???!
                      4. -1
                        22 February 2020 20: 10
                        Quote: Tank jacket
                        as in the nineties more people died than in the Second World War

                        In the year of the 75th anniversary of the Great Victory, order should be put in order in this matter. And it turns out that we, the survivors of the 90s with Royal alcohol and khanka, suffered worse than those in the besieged Leningrad. To me this approach to ourselves seems a bit immoral.
                        Although you personally did not find the 90s. I'm right?
                        Quote: Tank jacket
                        Maybe we remember standing without clinking glasses, those who did not fit into the MARKET ???!

                        Let's remember the dead, why not remember? Just what do you mean "didn't fit"? During life they would have asked you for this.
                    2. -1
                      20 February 2020 07: 54
                      Quote: Tank jacket
                      Why did they need explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances ???

                      And were they?
                      1. -1
                        20 February 2020 08: 18
                        And they were not? Link?
                2. +12
                  19 February 2020 14: 32
                  Read carefully the article about the planned scenarios of these rylovutsioners ...
                  "Hour." In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.
                  We only read the official version of the government, how it was and is in fact we do not know. Maybe it really was "Capital hit" in their heads, or maybe some general wanted to "uncover the conspiracy" and get an asterisk, maybe faces themselves led this group.
                  1. -7
                    19 February 2020 14: 50
                    Do not succumb to provocations and you will not be led ...
                    1. +6
                      19 February 2020 17: 12
                      Quote: Tank jacket
                      Do not succumb to provocations and you will not be led

                      passed already ... in the military-industrial complex at the operative in the FSB as "unreliable", since he organized an airsoft team ... back in 11, until airsoft was not recognized as a sport)))
                      1. -1
                        19 February 2020 20: 38
                        Are you trustworthy?)))
          2. +4
            19 February 2020 13: 32
            Yes, he probably still 200 years about "Ukraine" and that's all
            1. -7
              19 February 2020 14: 00
              Yes to me, these Networks, too, all the ears have been buzzing liberotny media for 200 years. To everyone ... and all business ...
      2. -1
        19 February 2020 13: 26
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that are usually unleashed

        That is, those who defend themselves are to blame?
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        An example of a revolution without millions of victims, the Cuban revolution

        And what are there millions in Cuba?
        1. +6
          20 February 2020 03: 51
          Quote: Dart2027
          Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that are usually unleashed

          That is, those who defend themselves are to blame
          You cut the quote, noticeably changing the meaning
          thrown off bankrupt
          top

          Quote: Dart2027
          And what are there millions in Cuba?
          In 1960 there were 6 million, now more than 11 million. What was difficult to ask before asking a stupid question?
          1. -1
            20 February 2020 06: 45
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            noticeably changing the meaning

            And what is he? Regular fighters for all the good begin an armed rebellion overthrowing the government and killing its supporters, which provokes a response, that is, self-defense.
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            By 1960 there were 6 million

            Judging by the revolutions in France and the Republic of Ingushetia, the number of victims will be approximately in the region of 10-15% of the population, so millions were not there.
    3. +4
      19 February 2020 15: 34
      Quote: Tank jacket
      In the USA they would have given 150 years.

      So US to us:
      a) enemies
      b) partners
      c) "partners"
      Choose the one you need, as in the exam. What to pray for them? Like Hiroshima - so fu fu fu USA. Iraq, Afghanistan, ISIS, Syria - Fu Fu Fu USA. And here is a direct role model. So in the United States, police for a child’s pistol will roll olive on the child’s forehead. No double standards, please.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. -2
        20 February 2020 07: 58
        Quote: unwillingly
        So in the United States, police for a child’s pistol will roll olive on the child’s forehead

        Seriously? 1. This is when it happened? 2. The fate of the police?
        1. +3
          20 February 2020 10: 36
          Offhand search in Yandex
          https://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/8240422.html
          But the story was. Not a child is true, a 15-year-old teenager, if memory serves.
          1. -2
            20 February 2020 10: 56
            Quote: unwillingly
            Not a child true, a 15 year old teenager,

            That is, it could very well be a two-meter Negril under dope with a barrel.

            Again.
            Quote: Octopus
            The fate of the police?
            1. +2
              20 February 2020 16: 19
              HZ. I’m from memory, from some year old news. I confess, I'm not an encyclopedia. And the news somehow does not tell about the further fate. Here I am writing and remember that with this "negrils", with his "shooting", riots began in some of the states. There was a lot of news on this topic. And far from all at once everything subsided. There, and the National Guard had to intervene. Do you remember?
    4. 0
      20 February 2020 17: 53
      Revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates

      A jacket is a jacket. A revolution is a chance, a chance to change something in its existence. Change if not your life, so at least the lives of your children for the better. But if it’s prettier for you to eat from the belly at the expense of the future, if you want to leave behind a dried up and trampled desert, then yes - revolution is not your method
      1. -1
        20 February 2020 18: 09
        You had a chance in 1991 III ......
        In the "holy nineties" Killed 30 million people of the population of the USSR.wassat
        1. +3
          20 February 2020 18: 35
          Nope, I didn’t have this chance, at that moment I was only in the plan, so everyone decided for me. They decided that my country, which my grandfathers built and defended in the crucible of the 20-40s, had to die for some reason and not at all so that my peers and I could be born and survive, but just so that someone would it’s convenient to cut public good without being embarrassed by the Chekists who turned away so successfully and on time, who turned a blind eye to what was happening for a certain percentage. And every morning, driving along entire blocks of factories that were permanently stopped in order to earn a piece of bread, I regret with great sorrow that I did not have the chance to experience the chance you are talking about. The longer we wait for the next, the more so the government itself is doing everything possible to implement this scenario. I'm patient, I'll wait. But when the time comes, be sure I will not reflect and smear the intellectual snot, but I will do according to the testament of my ancestors, who once showed the world the true power of the masses in their destructive and creative principles. As Paul Robson sang:

          If you see me coming, you better step aside,
          A lot of men didn't and a lot of men died.
          My one fist is iron, the other one's steel,
          And if the left don't getcha, then the right one will
      2. -2
        20 February 2020 20: 17
        Quote: Dante
        A revolution is a chance, a chance to change something in its existence. Change if not your life, so at least the lives of your children for the better.

        Provided that these children do not perish so that none of the parents and bones will not find them, at least to bury humanly.
        1. +2
          20 February 2020 20: 50
          Well, you are something like me or like all the participants in this forum, clearly not the descendants of those who disappeared without a trace. And so ... life is a very varied and unpredictable thing. Who, for example, will guarantee that you will get out of bed tomorrow? None. No one will give anyone any guarantees whatsoever, but this does not mean that you should not try. In the end, where we were as if we didn’t dare to put our hand into the fire. Burned yes, no doubt. But they also gained the experience necessary to turn fire into their ally and the main tool that exalted us above other living beings. So the very first revolution took place. No one knew what this would lead to, but take a look around, now we launch rockets into space and fission atoms with our lust. What is stopping you, following the example of your ancestors, from making the revolution your instrument, directing it to exalt the very best aspects of our society and burn out its most base manifestations?

          And about the alleged mass victims of this process ... often remember Mark Twain, who reasonably noted that the lie is divided into large, small and statistics, because if we summarize all the official population losses for the first half of the 20th century to the size of this population the beginning of well-known events, we should have ended long ago (even taking into account the birth rate, which in difficult post-revolutionary conditions, as modern researchers try to present us with, should be quite modest and not capable of full to compensate for the loss of population), but somehow this did not happen. Not thanks, but contrary - you answer me, and I will say that the cockroaches in my apartment also once tried to live and breed despite, but I still won. So this scheme does not work here. Only the state fostering conditions conducive to childbearing, the most important of which is the formation of confidence among the population in the future and the relatively equitable redistribution of resources, is the main guarantee for the growth of the human population. But such a state could not appear during the bloody revolutionary massacre? Or could it?
          1. -2
            20 February 2020 21: 03
            Quote: Dante
            Who, for example, will guarantee that you will get out of bed tomorrow? None.
            Here is just the likelihood that this will happen when there is no bloody slaughter around much higher.
            Quote: Dante
            No one knew what this would lead to, but look back, now we
            We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know. As for rockets and atom, then in other countries there were no revolutions.
            Quote: Dante
            for if we summarize all the official loss of population for the first half of the 20th century to the size of this very population at the beginning of known events
            A source?
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 21: 59
              We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know

              You confuse cause and effect. Perestroika and everything that followed it were not products of the Great October Revolution, but were its counterparties aimed at eliminating all the achievements of the October Revolution. And by the way, the current head of state (hello pension reform) systematically continues this policy.
              As for rockets and atom, then in other countries there were no revolutions

              But what about the French or English bourgeois revolutions? And the American revolution and the struggle for independence? There, too, blood was shed in abundance. But this was so long ago and not with us, why mention everything? In addition, many of the achievements of science and society, such as universal suffrage or the same peaceful and not very atom, became possible only because one young, but very innovative country in the East was the first to implement principles that were very harmful from a conservative position, leading to fermentation minds already in the West itself, and to stop its ideological expansion and economic power could only be something particularly powerful.
              A source?

              Ren TV? Voice of America? Baba Zina from the next entrance? What other sources do you need? Or do you think that I, especially for searching arguments in the middle of the night, quickly drove to the archive of the regional library and re-read a couple of archived volumes of that period? Of course, I exaggerate, but I have always been struck by such questions.

              The most common figures say that at the beginning of the 20th century, 110 million people lived in Russia, the figure is not accurate because registration of the peasant population, i.e. the overwhelming majority of the population of the Empire was very badly conducted and mainly based on parish books, which were not even in all parishes, to say nothing about the registration of the Muslim population. Excluding the failed Japanese campaign, during the First World War, Russia lost either 3 (this figure is on the monument erected by emigrants in present-day Serbia, although this figure most likely takes into account only soldier’s losses), or 8 million people (this already the data of Soviet historians who cannot be trusted because of their bias as we know). Then the revolution - according to the most well-established opinion, another minus 21 million people. The Holodomor in the Volga region and Ukraine is another minus from 3 to 7 million people. (the numbers vary on the side of the Russian-Ukrainian border you are on). And finally, the Great Patriotic War - from 28 to 36 million dead, the exact number is again unknown. So, according to the most approximate estimates, at least half of the population perished in various kinds of social cataclysms. Moreover, according to statistics (which I am still a profanity, I can confirm this to you as a person close to state institutions) the birth rate in that period was not so very. Up to the present period, 6 the planets of capitalist relations certainly do not reach, but Somalia is also far away (probably in the early Union they lived worse than in the poorest country in the African continent). There would be no revolution, there would not be all these losses - you say. There is such a possibility. Approximately 50 to 50. But what exactly would be is a semblance of Victorian England with complete lack of rights for everyone who has money and influence, into which the modern world is slipping, no longer living under the fear of the spread of the red communist plague. And who knows which is better ...
              1. 0
                21 February 2020 05: 04
                Quote: Dante
                We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know

                You confuse cause and effect.

                Everything is simpler - they confuse "revolution" and "counter-revolution".
              2. 0
                21 February 2020 06: 41
                Quote: Dante
                Perestroika and everything that followed it were not products of the Great October Revolution, but were its counterparties aimed at
                That is, the Soviet government and the communist party that carried it out were the counterparties of the communism project?
                Quote: Dante
                But what about the French or English bourgeois revolutions? And the American revolution and the struggle for independence?
                Was there a revolution in Germany too? Or in Japan? And to confuse the struggle for independence with the revolution is generally the finish.
                Quote: Dante
                What other sources do you need? Or do you think I'm specifically for looking for arguments in the middle of the night
                That is, all this is taken from the head and there is nothing concrete.
                Quote: Dante
                But what exactly would be is a semblance of Victorian England with the complete lack of rights of everyone in front of those who have money and influence

                I wonder what would happen to a mere mortal who would cross the road to an influential party leader in the USSR?
                1. +1
                  22 February 2020 15: 00
                  Was there a revolution in Germany too? Or in Japan? And to confuse the struggle for independence with the revolution is generally the finish.


                  1. There was more than one revolution in Germany. The closest to us is the November Revolution of 1918, which ended with the Weimar Republic.
                  2. In Japan, after the war, Bosin was a Meiji restoration which was a real revolution from above. It fundamentally changed the structure of the country and it is believed that it was the leap that transferred Japan from the Middle Ages to the New Time, turned the backward country into a modern state.
                  3. You are mistaken in believing that the war for independence and revolution are opposite phenomena. The war for US independence ended in an absolute change in the state system, for example, from the US colony became a presidential republic. This is a revolution - a way of transition from a historically obsolete socio-economic formation to a more progressive, radical qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society.

                  As Lenin himself wrote

                  The history of modern, civilized America opens with one of those great, truly liberating, truly revolutionary wars, which were so few among the vast mass of predatory wars caused by a fight between kings, landowners, capitalists because of the division of the seized lands or looted profits. It was a war of the American people against the English robbers who oppressed and kept America in colonial slavery.


                  So before you write something, you should study the topic yourself.
                  1. 0
                    22 February 2020 17: 21
                    Quote: rait
                    Closest to us is the November Revolution of 1918 which ended
                    In fact, this revolution was just a consequence of a lost war, and the Germans had scientific and technological achievements before that.
                    Quote: rait
                    In Japan, after the war, Bosin was a Meiji restoration which was a real revolution from above.
                    Simply put, the government solved its problems, and it was just those who tried to rebel who lost.
                    Quote: rait
                    You are mistaken in believing that the war for independence and revolution are opposite phenomena. The war for US independence ended in an absolute change in the state system, for example, from the US colony became a presidential republic.
                    And the fact that any successful war of independence means a transition from a colony to one’s own state is not obvious?
                    Quote: rait
                    caused by a fight between kings, landowners, capitalists due to the division of the seized lands or looted profits
                    And because of what they began to rebel? Yes, because of money and nothing else. A historical fact that Lenin apparently did not know.
                    1. +1
                      22 February 2020 17: 38
                      Well, here we go to a sharp change of shoes.

                      Generally this revolution was just a consequence of a lost war, and the Germans had scientific and technological achievements even before that.


                      Suddenly it turns out that there was still a revolution in Germany. How so? You had doubted this before! The following is not related to the topic of discussion. And no, missiles and atom as a result of this revolution did not appear directly. Guess what events they appeared in, or tell me?

                      Simply put, the government solved its problems, and it was just those who tried to rebel who lost.


                      It depends on who you mean by "power". In the end, the people and the state won, not just a handful of the elite. But again, the revolution which you doubted was again.

                      And the fact that any successful war of independence means a transition from a colony to one’s own state is not obvious?


                      Not for you. You are claiming that someone confused two different phenomena - the war for independence and the revolution. In your opinion, "this is generally the finish line."

                      And because of what they began to rebel? Yes, because of money and nothing else. A historical fact that Lenin apparently did not know.


                      Again, you can trace your low level of education. Lenin knew perfectly well that they rebelled, as you put it, because of money, or more precisely, the distribution of economic benefits. Because communism from the very beginning was built around the issue of distribution of economic benefits, all left-wing workers' movements revolt over the distribution of economic benefits, or as you primitively put it, "money". And Lenin conducted his activities for the same reason.
                      1. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 46
                        Quote: rait
                        Suddenly it turns out that there was still a revolution in Germany. How so? You had doubted this before!
                        Forgot the word revolution in quotation marks.
                        Quote: rait
                        It depends on who you mean by "power".
                        Those who ruled the country and carried out reforms that they considered necessary.
                        Quote: rait
                        But again, the revolution you doubted was again.
                        In this case, write in the revolutionaries Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.
                        Quote: rait
                        You claim that someone confused two different phenomena - the war for independence and revolution.
                        Please indicate where it is said that this is one and the same.
                        Quote: rait
                        Again, you can trace your low level of education. Lenin knew perfectly well that they were rebelling as you put it because of money, or more precisely, the distribution of economic goods. Because communism is built around the issue from the very beginning.
                        Simply put, another fight over money, which they tried to attach to the theory that someday there would be no need for money at all.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2020 18: 19
                        In this case, write in the revolutionaries Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.


                        Honestly, I don’t remember how about Grozny (not my historical period), but Peter considers modern history to be a revolutionary and explains very well why. You still read the history book, it will be useful.

                        Please indicate where it is said that this is one and the same.


                        You still decide. First you have incompatible things, then one follows from the other (and this is right), now it’s gone again and I need to indicate something.

                        Simply put, another fight over money, which they tried to attach to the theory that someday there would be no need for money at all.


                        And because of something else in the history of modern mankind there have been revolutions and military conflicts? All of them were because of values. And no matter in what form they were hides, women, gold, paper money, private ownership of the means of production - all these are values.

                        So about the missiles and nuclear reactors, since you did not answer, I will explain. They appeared in Germany not as a result of the revolution, but as a result of the Nazis coming to power with their aggressive ideology and, of course, the ensuing war. And after the country, the winners eagerly snatched everything they could from the remnants of these developments. Of course, the November revolution was part of a large chain of events that led to this, but only part. And most importantly, despite the terrible defeat in World War II, Germany is still one of the most advanced states to this day.
                      3. 0
                        22 February 2020 19: 35
                        Thank you so much rait for the enlightening work you have done. I admit, a couple of times I was trying to answer Dart's comments, but for the last few days I was sewing up at work, so there was absolutely no strength and desire to answer something so odious. I am glad that there are still educated people on the site who are able to explain to others in detail and without unnecessary emotional outbursts why their point of view is untenable and crumbles upon closer examination good

                        Especially thanks for clarifying Dartu regarding revolutions in Japan, Germany and the USA. Directly removed from the tongue. I would also add that the revolution in Japan by many researchers is not called such only because the institution of the emperor in Japan at the time of Tokugawa’s reign, Yoshinobu already existed, and therefore, from the point of view of political institutions, no revolutionary changes allegedly took place, and all events were only expressed in the redistribution of power between various power structures. But at the same time they forget that it was the return of power to Emperor Mutsihito that triggered the accelerated planting of capitalist relations in the country, because it was vitally necessary to deprive that part of the samurai that opposed the imperial court, their main economic base in the person of the results of the labor of peasant allotments. And as we know, the transition from one form of management to another is called nothing more than a revolution. I hope dear Dart understands this now.

                        Regarding the perturbation that the data cited by me, I quote
                        taken from the head and there is nothing concrete under them.
                        I will answer the following: all this is taken not just from the head, but from memory. I understand that you are too weak on the Internet and understanding how a person can rely on his own knowledge without resorting to the help of "authoritative" sources is no longer available to you, but I assure you that with the proper level of reading, this is quite feasible. And the fact that I have a similar quality, you can be sure: even at school I have repeatedly won prizes in olympiads in Patriotic history, more than once winning regional, city and regional competitions. Apparently, therefore, I wrote the exam in history for only 65 points and attempts to prove my case (for example, to convince teachers that the Transsib was laid by Alexander 3, and not Nicholas 2, who at that time, being a prince, only drove a symbolic nail into the tie at the Vladivostok railway station , on which he found himself returning from an international tour) ended in fiasco. Nevertheless, I entered the institute and even completed my specialty and master's degree in a subject at the intersection of history and a number of social sciences, with honors. During his studies, he was repeatedly published in scientific publications on various topics. In total, there are about 20 works in my riches, indexed in the RSCI system, and 2 publications in the journals of the All-Russian Attestation Commission. Therefore, I believe that my level of knowledge and competencies allows me not to resort to additional sources at the first demand of a trembling public. In addition, I remind you that one of the 10 commandments directly says: "Do not make yourself an idol," and therefore excessive adherence to "authoritative sources" with good reason I consider it a crime against divine conduction. This is me, of course, joking, and I have many favorite authors whom I have repeatedly cited as experts in support of my arguments, not to mention the fact that to some of them, to the best of my ability, I dedicated individual research papers analyzing their works. All this, of course, does not make me a carrier of some kind of sacred knowledge, but I am not going to additionally prove the truth of my statements, especially since they can be easily verified empirically. As the saying goes: "Seek and find." And as soon as you are trying on the mantle of the prosecutor, then the right to collect the evidence base I leave solely on your shoulders. I hope in the course of your search you will learn a lot for yourself. hi

                        Do not be offended, I do not have any prejudices towards you and only wish you not to be so categorical towards people and their capabilities wink
                      4. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 50
                        Quote: Dante
                        And as we know, the transition from one form of management to another is called nothing more than a revolution.
                        And revolution is called scientific and technological progress.
                        A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power. We can say that, for example, Newton was a revolutionary in science, but this has nothing to do with politics.
                      5. 0
                        23 February 2020 10: 44
                        A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power


                        It is recommended to study at least the Great Soviet Encyclopedia in order to find out what revolution is and not use the wrong interpretation. For example, in Ukraine there was a forceful overthrow of the existing government, but there was no revolution.

                        Why? What revolution did he make?


                        As they say in school textbooks "cut a window to Europe."

                        the fact that in Germany there were scientists and engineers.


                        And again a mistake. There can be as many scientists and engineers as possible, but there will be no research until the existing government makes them a priority, brings these scientists together and gives them the appropriate resources.
                      6. 0
                        23 February 2020 12: 58
                        Quote: rait
                        what is revolution
                        Revolution is a radical transformation in any area of ​​human activity.
                        Quote: rait
                        For example, in Ukraine there was a forceful overthrow of the existing government, but there was no revolution.
                        Really? Why?
                        Quote: rait
                        hacked a window to Europe
                        And does that make him a revolutionary? I remember about the window to Europe, but the revolution is something new.
                        Quote: rait
                        There may be as many scientists and engineers as possible, but there will be no research as long as
                        Nevertheless, somehow managed. By the beginning of WWI, Germany was a very developed country.
                      7. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 02
                        And once again we see shoe change

                        First

                        A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power


                        after

                        Revolution is a radical transformation in any area of ​​human activity.


                        Significantly.

                        Really? Why?


                        Because there has not been a fundamental qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society. Individuals in power just changed.

                        And does that make him a revolutionary? I remember about the window to Europe, but the revolution is something new.


                        It was necessary to learn history at school.

                        Nevertheless, somehow managed


                        Without "somehow", the Nazis came to power and did everything. Because for them these studies were a priority.
                      8. 0
                        24 February 2020 15: 35
                        Quote: rait
                        And once again we see
                        Inability to understand what is read. The definition of the word revolution, as such, is one thing. Its concrete application in context is another.
                        Quote: rait
                        Because there has not been a fundamental qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society.
                        Really? Somewhere 80% of the economy flew into the chimney, there is a war, the reputation in the world is such that the President of Somalia (!!!) scares his fellow citizens with Ukraine - is that not a transformation?
                      9. 0
                        23 February 2020 18: 40
                        And revolution is called scientific and technological progress.

                        They call it when its results fundamentally affect the ways of carrying out economic and economic activity, which then affects the socio-political structure of society. Roughly speaking, the assertion of capitalism was not so much due to the fact that new scientific discoveries appeared, but because the introduction of these technologies entailed a deepening of the division of labor, stretching of the production chain to create more technically complex goods, which in turn entailed additional risks for manufacturers that a failure may occur at some stage. New regulatory institutions began to take on these risks. At the same time, there was a process of self-identification of the mentioned elements as a separate political group, whose interests were different from the interests of the ruling class, i.e. feudal lords. As soon as there were enough of such new elements so that they themselves could claim the main role in the decision-making process, a revolution took place. This is a very simplified scenario, which nevertheless clearly demonstrates how difficult it is to determine the root cause of the fundamental transformations in society. Another example from a closer historical period. The emergence of mass communication has led to the emergence of the masses in the political arena as a political actor, because reducing the time to make decisions has significantly reduced the time costs of the production process, freeing up a significant amount of labor and reducing labor costs for others. Something had to be done with all these people. For the former, the question of survival has become more acute than ever, for the latter, what to do with the time it has taken. In addition, now everyone was informed about certain actions of the ruling elite and was able to characterize and evaluate them. For the time being, this was not a problem, but after the October Revolution, in Western countries there was an understanding that it would no longer be possible to ignore this factor. To please the masses, the draft of the dominant model of democracy was revised taking into account the need to approve universal suffrage, already implemented in the USSR at that time, but unlike the Soviet Union in the West, the main consumer of this transformation was not the broad and largely marginalized layers of the population, but a certain sample of them, which is commonly called the "middle class". Is it a revolution? No, because the ruling class managed to maintain its position, although it had to make significant concessions: limit their own appetites, form social elevators and even move a bit in order to allow representatives of the masses into politics. Moreover, all this happened under the influence of the Russian factor and was aimed at suppressing a more negative scenario for the ruling elite, when it loses absolutely all its dividends. As we see in this case, scientific and technological progress, although it affected the way of managing, did not lead to radical restructuring (at least not everywhere). Although it can be said that capitalism simply proved to be much more adaptive than its predecessor, feudalism.
                      10. 0
                        24 February 2020 15: 36
                        Quote: Dante
                        Called when its results fundamentally affect

                        In fact, any discovery that radically changes the idea of ​​any science is called a "revolution in ..." But again, politics has nothing to do with it.
                      11. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 47
                        Quote: rait
                        Honestly, I don’t remember how about Grozny (not my historical period), but Peter considers modern history to be a revolutionary and explains very well why.
                        Why? What revolution did he make?
                        Quote: rait
                        First you have incompatible things, then one follows from the other (and now this is right)
                        Where should A revolution is when inside the country, in one’s circle, and when with someone else’s it is no longer a revolution. Is it clear now?
                        Quote: rait
                        So about the missiles and nuclear reactors, since you did not answer, I will explain. They appeared in Germany not as a result of the revolution, but as a result
                        the fact that in Germany there were scientists and engineers. Moreover, the German scientific and engineering schools were created before, after the WWI, Germany began ... strange, to say the least. So for the development of the revolution are not required.
    5. 0
      22 February 2020 16: 49
      The power of Yeltsin and his last ones are the same millions of victims and destroyed destinies ...
  3. +1
    19 February 2020 12: 26
    At one time they snuck around with the Narodnaya Volya and others and got the result .... everybody almost the second at the trial tried to torture me, oh I'm so miserable ... tried ... yeah ... I saw those .... myself who you want they will try
    1. -8
      19 February 2020 12: 28
      every second almost in court taldychit tortured me


      laughing yes cool video about torture "Network". Very tragic, the intensity of torture is beyond limits
      1. -3
        19 February 2020 13: 49
        minus the wet revolutionaries for their twin, and the video is cool :(

        1. -4
          19 February 2020 19: 18
          They are guilty. There must be a death penalty. 20 years is still too soft
    2. +3
      19 February 2020 12: 34
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      everybody almost the second in court taldychit tortured me, oh I'm so miserable .. tried.

      The lawyers gave clear instructions on what to say. And then "the entire world democracy" will be connected. Oh, what a howl the Guzmans, the harmless Akhedzhakovs, will raise now, human rights activists will yell "onizhedeti", there is no need to talk about the West.
      1. 0
        19 February 2020 15: 37
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Oh, what a howl the guzmans, the harmless Akhedzhakovs, will raise now, human rights activists will shout "onizhedeti"

        I think they will not come running. Because it is "red". And what about the "red", our "patriots" and systemic liberals love and kisses on the gums.
      2. +1
        20 February 2020 08: 04
        Quote: tihonmarine
        about the west and do not need to talk.

        There really is no need to talk about the West. He doesn’t give a shit more or less who is torturing someone from the Russians. They only come to life when a pusher, like Browder, appears on a topic. No one has any interest in torture.
    3. +6
      19 February 2020 12: 35
      Leftists do not need a damn thing, but rot in the country is visible to the naked eye, since boobies are trying on weapons, and this is according to law enforcement agencies, but there are doubts about their honesty.
      1. -6
        19 February 2020 13: 50
        Is your surname Guzman?
        1. +2
          20 February 2020 03: 55
          No, and yours is not Vasilyeva, who is Eugene? So, as a visible example of justice.
  4. +21
    19 February 2020 12: 33
    How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.
    And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?
    1. -14
      19 February 2020 12: 40
      Here is your essence again, there are specific people convicted of a specific crime, no. In blah blah blah, blah stole billions, about nothing .. who stole when, how much ... everything is clear and simple way, time, place .. as constantly as the bububububa mantra .. plundered ... and everything else
      1. +5
        19 February 2020 13: 51
        The crime was only planned ... Or not. Well try to treat with understanding.
        Billions? Yes, at least the same Zakharchenko.
        However, everything is clear with theft. Remember Kakulova, did you steal? This is the case, so go dancing. She sang, danced and decided that she was innocent.
        1. +1
          21 February 2020 00: 20
          Quote: Gardamir
          The crime was only planned ...

          You can get a fuck ... wassat Okay, last try. So, to a hypothetical gardamir there is a terrible hostility to a hypothetical ill-wisher (let’s omit the reasons for the hostility), who is training hard with the goal of maximally effectively transferring the aforementioned gardamir from a living state to the exact opposite.
          And everything, it seems, goes according to his plan, but for some reason the crime breaks down and he is knit. And the villain on the bench in the courtroom - it comes to the verdict, but the villain's lawyer (s) comes in, who says that there was no crime, because everything collapsed at the preparation stage. Immediately there is a public outcry, connect law enforcerswho demand to free this organism from the courtroom with the above motivation. fellow I am sure that there is no need to describe the emotions and aspirations of a hypothetical gardamir at that moment. Yes And instead of the epilogue:
          The most expensive thing in the world is human stupidity, because you have to pay the most for it ...(C)
      2. +8
        19 February 2020 15: 13
        The case of Vasilieva.
        Where are the 18 years of the colony? It's about billions
        1. 0
          21 February 2020 05: 07
          Quote: Revival
          The case of Vasilieva.
          Where are the 18 years of the colony? It's about billions

          So there, and to the detriment of defense, let's say streamlined not unambiguously ..
          1. -1
            21 February 2020 11: 23
            The theft of such sums, when there is "no money" in retirement, in itself should drag on for 20 years.
            But, please treat with understanding ...
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 11: 24
              We understand .... we understand .... we understand very ...
    2. +4
      19 February 2020 12: 43
      Quote: Gardamir
      How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.

      Well, again, practical training in applied history.
    3. +23
      19 February 2020 13: 10
      Quote: Gardamir
      How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.
      And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?

      I.V. Stalin
      “When a spy or a traitor is caught, the indignation of the public knows no bounds, it demands execution. And when a thief is wielding in front of everyone, plundering state property, the surrounding public is limited to good-natured chuckles and a pat on the shoulder. and undermining the interests of the national economy is the same spy and traitor, if not worse. "
      1. 0
        20 February 2020 08: 06
        Quote: Arlen
        there is the same spy and traitor, if not worse

        58th tractor drivers.
        1. 0
          20 February 2020 16: 22
          Is it for an anecdote. "For spikelets" notorious - Decree seven or eight.
    4. +5
      19 February 2020 15: 40
      Quote: Gardamir
      And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?

      "To understand and forgive" © A.R. Bearded man. After all, they just rob us. And the system is not encroached upon. So be it. Well, when the shores are lost, so be it, they will roll the convention. And if they don't want to share assets, then they sit. As the Rybinsk ghoul Yura Lastochkin sits.
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 08: 10
        Quote: unwillingly
        sitting Rybinsk ghoul Yura Lastochkin.

        Do not go, girls, to mayors, - nothing good. In the Yaroslavl region in general, with mayors a heap has passed.
        1. 0
          20 February 2020 10: 39
          Well, Yura has been sitting for a long time, to be honest. By the way, many residents sympathize with him. The fact that a thief and a ghoul somehow quickly forgets the people. The business owner was strong. Allegedly, he lived better with him. HZ. It was never good. If you can’t do it yourself. And what else is wrong with the mayors in the Yaroslavl region. I live in it, but I do not follow. Xe Constitution Yes Geopolitics laughing "Starteg" (self-irony)
          1. 0
            20 February 2020 10: 58
            Quote: unwillingly
            what else is wrong with the mayors in the Yaroslavl region

            Have you forgotten Urlashov? Nemtsov, by the way, the deceased, was also a Yaroslavl deputy.
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 13: 27
              Well yes. Forgot for prescription. I thought I missed something more fresh. Nemtsov, yes, he was. Well, they arranged a hotbed of liberalism and right-wing forces.
  5. +11
    19 February 2020 12: 38
    a hundred years ago, it already began, for the sake of self-preservation, the state (government) needs to act tough, it’s a pity that this is the only lesson learned by the powerful, which means that inevitably the emergence of battle groups is no longer from self-taught, in general, nothing happens that is not inevitable consequence of already done (or not done, contrary to promises)
    1. +21
      19 February 2020 12: 43
      The tsarist government also did not suffer from great humanism towards those students. Another thing is that the process of growth and aggravation of contradictions is quite objective, and therefore rushed in the 17th. As well as before and after, the point here is not enthusiastic students, but that there are great contradictions in society. That is, this flywheel was launched not by young people who were ready to sacrifice themselves, but by the then-power by the Romanovs. The situation of the people. His poverty and lack of rights. The pricelessness of their lives and families. Bloody and immoral reprisals of the ruling class against workers and peasants. Hundreds of books are described by eyewitnesses of those events. If this were not so, the Bolsheviks who came to power would never have found such support from the people.
      1. +2
        19 February 2020 12: 54
        And with all this - a lot of weapons from these disgruntled people who are ready to use it.
      2. 0
        19 February 2020 13: 27
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        The tsarist government also did not suffer from great humanism towards those students.

        With those who committed the killings?
        1. +6
          19 February 2020 13: 38
          Well, it seemed like nothing happened with the Lensky execution, oh yes there are no students there ...
          1. -2
            19 February 2020 14: 52
            Quote: mat-vey
            oh yes there are no students

            So you still know that?
            Quote: mat-vey
            with the Lensky execution it seems like nothing happened

            Which one? There were two of them.
            1. +4
              19 February 2020 16: 03
              On May 28, 1996, the Vostochno-Sibirskaya Pravda newspaper published an article entitled “Two Lena executions”, in which, citing case No. 7912 from the FSB archive in the Irkutsk Region, it stated that in 1938, 948 were executed by the Troika’s sentence in the city of Bodaibo workers of the Lena goldfields [23]. The events described in the article do not find confirmation in historical sources, links to the source of the article and case No. 7912 have not been established, which does not allow to judge the reliability of the information.
              1. -2
                19 February 2020 16: 43
                Quote: mat-vey
                references to the source of the article and case No. 7912 not established

                That is, there is no refutation.
                As for the actions of captain Treschenkov, it would be interesting for me to listen to his point of view. These events have always been presented only from the point of view of one side.
                1. +4
                  19 February 2020 16: 53
                  Those. no confirmation. Do you think that the gendarme captain took the initiative? But what about subordination and length of service?
                  1. -1
                    19 February 2020 17: 28
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Do you think that the gendarme captain took the initiative?

                    And for you, the news that at that time there was no modern means of communication, in principle, and the only way to contact someone was a telegraph? That is, until the message is taken there, until it is delivered to the addressee, until the addressee sends his message ... And, by the way, the peacefulness of the demonstration, which the same question is so fond of saying. If the crowd ignores orders to stop, then what should those who are in front of it do? Riot police trained to act in such situations, then the same was not.
                    1. +2
                      19 February 2020 17: 34
                      Do you know how long this incident lasted?
                      1. +1
                        19 February 2020 20: 51
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        You know how long this incident lasted.

                        That is, the workers walked for several hours? And where?
                      2. +1
                        20 February 2020 05: 23
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        You know how long this incident lasted.

                        That is, the workers walked for several hours? And where?

                        At the Lena mines.
                      3. 0
                        20 February 2020 06: 49
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        At the Lena mines

                        And where did they go there? I read that they were walking along the village, which was either a large village, or a small city.
                      4. +1
                        20 February 2020 07: 39
                        You need to read more, more. For a start, at least what is the Lena mines.
                      5. 0
                        20 February 2020 12: 07
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        what is the Lena mines

                        И что же?
                      6. +1
                        20 February 2020 12: 50
                        Well, here and get acquainted, for one thing about where and from where to "go" you could find out.
                      7. 0
                        20 February 2020 14: 15
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        for one thing about where and from where to "go"

                        So where and where?
                      8. 0
                        20 February 2020 14: 22
                        And what did you read about it? On what settlement did you go, where did you go in the village, did you go to whom in the settlement, when did you go in the settlement, where did you come from to the settlement.
                      9. 0
                        20 February 2020 16: 59
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Which locality were

                        The city of Bodaibo. Now you know.
                      10. 0
                        20 February 2020 17: 11
                        And where did they go? And to whom did they go? When did they go? Where did they go?
                      11. -1
                        20 February 2020 20: 17
                        They walked around the city.
                      12. +1
                        21 February 2020 04: 58
                        Now, if you hadn’t flood like a vulgar troll here, you would have easily found that by no means Badoibo, but to the Nadezhdinsky mine.
                        And from where did they go? And to whom did they go? When did they go? Where did they go? - although you may not answer, there is only one flood from you.
                      13. 0
                        21 February 2020 06: 55
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        that for no Badoibo, but at the Nadezhda mine

                        So did they live in the city or right at the mine? If at the mine, then where did you go?
                      14. 0
                        21 February 2020 07: 00
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, here and get acquainted, for one thing about where and from where to "go" you could find out.
                      15. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 37
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, here and see, for one thing about where and from where to "go" you could find out

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Riot police trained to act in such situations, then the same was not.
                      16. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 43
                        So where did they go then? Read, find out? And what a coincidence, right before toughening, so to speak, labor and life, the gendarme team was increased to 340 people ..
                      17. 0
                        21 February 2020 15: 57
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        So where did they go then?

                        Tell me, where did you go?
                      18. 0
                        21 February 2020 16: 19
                        Do you categorically refuse to read?
                      19. +1
                        21 February 2020 18: 52
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And read

                        I don’t know what you are reading. For example, it says that they were captured at the stage of preparation for the attacks. Well, since it was rather difficult to justify outright terrorists, they tried to divert the conversation on the murky history of 100 years ago.
                      20. 0
                        22 February 2020 05: 38
                        I read your answer about "royal power".
                        And you immediately rushed to protect the Gunzburgs.
                      21. 0
                        22 February 2020 06: 31
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        I read your answer about "royal power"
                        And they tried to divert the conversation to LR.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, it seems like nothing happened with the Lensky execution, oh yes there are no students
                      22. 0
                        22 February 2020 06: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I read your answer about "royal power"
                        And they tried to divert the conversation to LR.

                        Do you always judge those around you?
                        Or is the attempt to lead you to "tsarist power" a tribute to patriarchal foundations?
                      23. 0
                        22 February 2020 08: 12
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you always judge those around you?

                        So did I talk about RI?
                      24. 0
                        22 February 2020 08: 18
                        And why "claims" to me? Or do you still agree that humanism does not apply to non-students?
                      25. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 23
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Why "claims" to me?
                        So you started talking about LR.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Or do you still agree that humanism does not apply to non-students?
                        It does not apply to those who prepared the attacks, regardless of the sauce with which they cook them.
                      26. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 25
                        Why do you dislike LR? And with what sauce did the Lena workers prepare a terrorist attack?
                      27. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 47
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And with what sauce did Lena workers prepare a terrorist attack?
                        Well, if the fact that they expressed their intentions by force to free the arrested innocent prank, then probably not.
                      28. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 48
                        Which conclusion of which commission was reflected?
                      29. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 50
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        This is the conclusion of which of the commissions

                        http://elib.shpl.ru/pages/3110721/zooms/7
                      30. +1
                        22 February 2020 20: 13
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        force to free the arrested innocent prank, then probably not.

                        And on what basis were they arrested?
                      31. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 51
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And on what basis were they arrested?

                        Public order disturbance.
                      32. +3
                        22 February 2020 22: 57
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Public order disturbance.

                        This is "order" in your misanthropic world - this is shooting at people. In mine - the impossibility of such shooting.
                      33. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 59
                        Quote: Octopus
                        This is "order" in your mesanthropic world - this is shooting at people. In my

                        When bandits shoot at people. You already wrote.
                      34. +3
                        22 February 2020 23: 04
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When bandits shoot at people. You already wrote.

                        No, I didn’t write this. I wrote that I distinguish between bandits and non-bandits by business, and not by clothing.
                      35. 0
                        23 February 2020 04: 38
                        In the report of the commission, which is so fond of mentioning here, they opened fire on a crowd that just wasn’t going anywhere, and handed in applications for the release of the arrested elected to Tulchinsky, since the prosecutor did not accept the collective petition, but demanded from each individual and they were found later more than 400. Many stood with their backs to the shooters, and some generally sat on piles of sleepers.
                    2. +1
                      20 February 2020 08: 17
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      the crowd ignores orders to stop, then what should those who are in front of it do?

                      And why on earth does the gendarme give any "orders to the crowd"? What kind of boss is this? Where did it come from?

                      You see what the matter is. Is it possible that the shabbat workers pogromed and burned the McDonald's, and the gendarmes stopped them? Of course available. But we know that when the pogroms did occur, the gendarmes did not mind. Therefore, the dogs of the regime were right or not specifically in Lensk - they already had a reputation for what they are.
                      1. 0
                        20 February 2020 08: 39
                        And I liked the telegraph, it means how to lead the security forces - slowly, but the fact that in the newspapers the next day in the evening is normal.
                      2. +1
                        20 February 2020 12: 10
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        but the fact that in the evening the next day in the newspapers

                        What's so surprising? The press has always reacted very quickly to various chernukha-sensation.
                      3. -1
                        20 February 2020 12: 52
                        Yes, yes, the magazine already had satellite phones ...
                      4. +2
                        20 February 2020 14: 16
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Yes, yes the magazine

                        There was NO bureaucracy.
                      5. 0
                        20 February 2020 14: 21
                        But the captain was so brave that the bureaucracy was not afraid. Definitely a hero.
                      6. +1
                        20 February 2020 17: 00
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And the captain was

                        The person who had to decide here and now, because he was a senior.
                      7. 0
                        20 February 2020 17: 12
                        Yes, there was a whole commission from the governor. Well, it’s easy to finish off the wounded just what you can’t do without it.
                      8. 0
                        20 February 2020 20: 19
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Yes, there was a whole commission from the governor

                        Of the security forces?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, to kill the wounded

                        Did they finish them off?
                      9. 0
                        21 February 2020 05: 01
                        Why, the prosecutor is not a security official?
                        Well, if - "They shot at the workers crawling back without stopping."
                      10. 0
                        21 February 2020 07: 02
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Why, the prosecutor is not a security official?

                        And then he commanded the gendarmes?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        not finishing

                        According to eyewitnesses, it is generally not clear whether they either finished off anyone, or left them, or immediately sent them to hospitals.
                      11. 0
                        21 February 2020 07: 09
                        You know what it is - "MVD Main Directorate for the Press. Informative Bureau." about "" They shot at the workers crawling back without stopping. "Is this from there, or do you not believe Stolypin's department?
                      12. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 43
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        M.V.D. General Directorate of Press. Information Bureau

                        Given the fact that in the press of the time the tsar and the authorities blasphemed as they could?
                        The article was published the next day and printed without any verification. The findings of the commission look much more reliable.
                      13. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 50
                        "Main Directorate of Press. Informative Bureau." - the mouthpiece of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Stolypin's "mouthpiece" so to speak .. is that they too?
                        "In the final documents of the two commissions investigating the Lena shooting, there is no data on the number of those killed, but it is said about taking testimony from the wounded in the amount of 202 people."
                      14. +1
                        20 February 2020 12: 09
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And why on earth would a gendarme give any "orders to the crowd"? What kind of boss is this?

                        You do not know what the police and gendarmerie are? Original.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        But we know that when the pogroms did occur, the gendarmes did not mind.

                        Oh really? I read that the pogroms were stopped just by the authorities. This is if you do not recall the fact that in this case we are not talking about Jews (are you talking about these pogroms?)
                      15. +1
                        20 February 2020 12: 49
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        What is the police and gendarmerie?

                        The same people who were drowned in channels in the 17th? I wonder what for?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        read that the pogroms stopped just by the authorities

                        And they stopped, and even began a little bit.

                        But we have left the topic. What exactly did the gendarmes defend by killing the Russian people who demanded from Mr. Gunzburg, Meyer, Champagne and others (effective managers Lenzoto) human working conditions?
                      16. -1
                        20 February 2020 14: 19
                        Quote: Octopus
                        The same people who were drowned in channels in the 17th?

                        And how joyfully the people shouted down with the Soviet power in the 90s. I wonder why?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        What exactly did the gendarmes protect

                        When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to protect yourself. There were no riot police trained to act in such a situation then.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And they stopped, and even began a little bit.

                        For example?
                      17. +1
                        20 February 2020 16: 08
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        joyfully the people shouted down with Soviet power in the 90s. I wonder why?

                        For the same reason?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to defend yourself

                        That is, Mr. Treschenkov associates put several hundred people to protect themselves. And who, in fact, threatened them? Especially personally to Treshchenkov in Irkutsk?
                      18. -2
                        20 February 2020 17: 07
                        Quote: Octopus
                        For the same reason?

                        Yes, in principle, the same. Everyone decided that the authorities were unfair, that they were paid little, that working conditions were poor, etc.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And who, in fact, threatened them?

                        The crowd has always been a threat. But how many people died this question, because there are quite a few options. The commission found that there were 202 wounded, and there are 3-4 times fewer killed.
                      19. +3
                        20 February 2020 17: 50
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes, in principle, the same. Everyone decided that the authorities were unfair, that they were paid little, that working conditions were poor, etc.

                        Exactly. Except for the fact that in Lensk the claims were not to the authorities from the very beginning.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The crowd has always been a threat

                        Threat to whom? And not always, namely in this case?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        that's how many people died this question

                        Yes, the Russians have a constant problem - there is no roll-call list.

                        So what, say, did Treshchenkov do there? Whom and from whom did he protect by killing unarmed Russian people?
                      20. -2
                        20 February 2020 20: 22
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Exactly. Except that in Lensk, the claims were

                        And what does that change? All revolutions are made under one carbon copy.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Threat to whom

                        Those who will be on her road.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Yes, Russians have a constant problem

                        That is, there are no objections.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        So what, say, did Treshchenkov do there

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to protect yourself. There were no riot police trained to act in such a situation then.
                      21. The comment was deleted.
                      22. +2
                        21 February 2020 08: 35
                        Hmm, it seems, again double solid was drawn somewhere. Let's try again.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        All revolutions are made under one carbon copy

                        The revolution in the mining village?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there are no objections

                        That the gendarmes did not publish the names of the dead? Yes, this is a fact and this is another crime.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Those who will be on her road

                        1. Who exactly suffered from this procession, except for the people killed and injured during the dispersal of the demonstration?
                        2. Why on earth did the gendarme of the Irkutsk administration generally vote in the question of who goes there and where in the taiga?
                        3. What did Treshchenkov do in the mines? With whom did he fight, whose interests did he defend, what were these interests?
                      23. +1
                        21 February 2020 09: 46
                        Quote: Octopus
                        The revolution in the mining village?
                        As part of the overall process.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        That the gendarmes did not publish the names of the dead?
                        But why didn’t they publish it later? In the 20s for example.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Who exactly suffered from this procession
                        But did you have to wait until the crowd runs into a soldier? Oh yes, you are opposed to being tried for terrorist acts before they go to the practical stage?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        who is there and where goes in the taiga
                        Did they walk in the taiga? And what did they do there?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        What did Treshchenkov do in the mines?
                        Worked.
                      24. +1
                        21 February 2020 12: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As part of the overall process

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Worked

                        There is such a job - to kill Russian people in view of the small Jewish gesheft. You are right, the work of Treschenkov is precisely part of the general process. As soon as the old regime handed out weapons to these very Russian people, a lot of interesting things turned out.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And it was necessary to wait until the crowd rests in a soldier

                        What did the soldiers do there? Why were they needed there? To whom?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Oh yes, you are opposed to being tried for terrorist acts before they go to the practical stage?

                        My opinion on the very fact of the existence of Article 205.4 is not entirely appropriate to state.
                      25. -1
                        21 February 2020 15: 50
                        Quote: Octopus
                        There is such a job - to kill Russian people
                        And how many revolutionaries killed them?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        referring to small Jewish gesheft
                        Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev confirm.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        What did the soldiers do there? Why were they needed there? To whom?
                        Do you know why they are needed? Although, yes riot police would be more useful.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        the very fact of the existence of article 205.4 is not entirely appropriate to state
                        So are we talking about her? This article (not in the Criminal Code, but on VO) is just about "fighters for ..."
                      26. +2
                        21 February 2020 17: 53
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And how many revolutionaries killed them?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev

                        Is this a sport? I thought so.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do you know why they are needed?

                        To protect citizens? Including from the confused gendarmes?
                      27. -1
                        21 February 2020 18: 56
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Is this a sport?
                        So you started a conversation about Jewish gesheft? Here you are.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        To protect
                        order. As I wrote, this whole story was presented exclusively from those who shot, but I would like to read what those who shot claimed.
                      28. 0
                        21 February 2020 05: 13
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But how many people died this question, because there are quite a few options. The commission found that there were 202 wounded, and there are 3-4 times fewer killed.

                        "On April 4, at night, the strike committee was arrested. The workers, according to the police chief's advice, went to the Nadezhdinsky mine with a statement to the prosecutor. On the way they met the district engineer Tulchinsky and asked to report to the prosecutor. At this moment, without warning, the troops fired a volley. Killed 150, wounded over 250. The killed rescued the bodies of Tulchinsky. The guard was also wounded. The workers were shooting at the workers crawling back without stopping. Attempts to sue the partnership were paralyzed by the police. to pay the last debt to those killed. - Workers of the second distance "
                      29. 0
                        21 February 2020 07: 04
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        At that moment, without warning, a volley was fired by the troops. 150 killed, over 250 injured

                        And some argue that more than 300 were killed, someone that 270. The only official document is the results of the commission.
                      30. -1
                        21 February 2020 07: 13
                        Well, "this" is from the "Office of the Press. Informative Bureau" to which "MVD" Believe it more? Like Stolypin in fighters with the regime was not listed.
                      31. +1
                        22 February 2020 17: 25
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Like Stolypin in the wrestlers with the regime was not listed

                        He was gone.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well "this" is from the "Office of the Press. Bureau of Investigation"

                        And where did they get them from? There are results of the commission that worked there, this is understandable. All other numbers are unknown.
                      32. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 29
                        And what commission? There were two of them. And which is characteristic - neither that nor that about the number of dead did not write, only about the survey of the wounded. So what are the results then?
                      33. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 49
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And that is characteristic - neither that, nor that about a quantity of the killed did not write, only about interrogation of wounded
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And some argue that more than 300 were killed, someone that 270. The only official document is the results of the commission.
                      34. 0
                        22 February 2020 18: 41
                        So what does the "only official document" say about those killed?
                        What was written sounded in the press organ of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200?
                      35. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 55
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200

                        Likely that the commission wrote about 202 wounded.
                        150 are alleged killed and over 250 injured.
                        Rather, the dead were 80-100.
                      36. 0
                        23 February 2020 03: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200

                        Likely that the commission wrote about 202 wounded.
                        150 are alleged killed and over 250 injured.
                        Rather, the dead were 80-100.

                        What are you talking about now? I repeat the question - what is the fundamental difference between 150 was killed or 200?
                      37. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 08
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        what is the fundamental difference between 150 was killed or 200

                        At 50 people.
                      38. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 10
                        Are they people for you?
                      39. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 05
                        You lie, the people did not shout down with Soviet power. Troll here without stopping writing on the go, a dummy.
  6. +9
    19 February 2020 12: 40
    The point would be to read. And so, yes. the power comes out. The degree is growing, and mind you, not retirees, but young people.
    1. -1
      19 February 2020 13: 51
      Well, with youth it’s clear. He is a priori ready for the pensioner and, as a rule, is able and still motivated. And the young must be fasted, nurtured.
    2. 0
      19 February 2020 15: 06
      And who will give it to you then read
      1. +2
        19 February 2020 15: 18
        They will not give, algvazily swear.
  7. +16
    19 February 2020 12: 41
    My opinion is that a harsh (cruel) sentence is unjustified. In reality, they did nothing. Even if they really planned something (big doubts remain), they would have given the leaders a real term, but not 18 years. The rest for the first time - conditionally with a supervision of 5 years. Such cruelty can only give rise to other things - cruelty on the other hand.
    Next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will quickly move on to real action. Experience shows that simply repression cannot solve the problems of society. But now all followers have real heroes and martyrs, and not just punks.

    Still - in my opinion, such terms for real corruption would give the state more. There real damage to the country - thousands of times more, including not only economic damage, but also political / social. But it’s easier to put the boys for 20 years.
    1. -11
      19 February 2020 12: 43
      As experience shows, simply by repression

      laughing
      Even if they were really planning something (big doubts remain),

      laughing
      The rest for the first time - conditionally

      wassat
      But now all followers have real heroes and martyrs, and not just a punks.

      laughing
      I read a report by conscientious journalists from the 90s about fighters for independence of Ichkeria

      These animals will sit.
      1. +5
        19 February 2020 12: 56
        in the current conditions, sentences of this kind, against the background of the utter discredit of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the eyes of society, raise great doubts about their objectivity.
        If we add total corruption and its impunity, the result for the state becomes the exact opposite of what they wanted to get.
      2. +7
        19 February 2020 13: 00
        Power play out. Now they are planting amateurs who played airsoft and read specials. literature (if it's not a lie, of course). When professionals get down to business, everyone will not be laughing. Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.
        1. 0
          20 February 2020 08: 30
          Quote: old friend
          Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.

          )))
          In fact, the Tsar’s position is more or less clear. Set the fee for your departure, which one hundred years ago was paid for the departure of Nicholas. The emperor is right, most likely. The multinational Russian people will not do anything here, there’s no one and nothing to pay the price of Nikolai with.
          1. +1
            20 February 2020 08: 46
            As for the total terror - I had in mind the terror against officials, ex-men across the country have acquired a truly incredible scale.
        2. 0
          20 February 2020 08: 43
          Quote: old friend
          When professionals get down to business, everyone will not be laughing. Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.

          There are more professionals, in my opinion, it’s just by 1917 - that M. Svechnikov as a vivid example ..
      3. +6
        19 February 2020 13: 07
        but especially for you, I would like to remind you that this problem can affect anyone. When local "comrades" knock out testimony from you or someone from your relatives about something that you never planned to do, then there will certainly be some St. Petrov, Sidorov, Kozlov ... Only, I'm sure you it won't be so much fun anymore.
        If nothing is changed in society and power, then history always moves in a spiral, but some do not understand this.
        1. -4
          19 February 2020 13: 29
          Quote: old friend
          When local "comrades" knock out testimony from you or someone from your family about something that you never planned to do, then too

          Are you talking about the "Stalinist executioners"? I remember 30 years ago they shouted about this at all corners.
        2. -4
          19 February 2020 15: 08
          It smelled like liberal buoyancy .... oh oh they are children
      4. +3
        19 February 2020 13: 39
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        These animals will sit.

        Oh Zheglov !? No, a parody ... laughing
      5. +10
        19 February 2020 16: 07
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        These animals will sit.

        There will be. What they have done is NOT normal. How abnormal is the denial of the abnormal situation in the country. There are comparisons in the article. The terms are comparable to those of real bloody murderers. And the case is very reminiscent of Kvachkov's "attempt" on Chubais. And when he did not burn out because of the jury (acquitted) they immediately concocted a mutiny with a crossbow and a march on Moscow. Now it is customary to nod at Ukraine in case of any jambs. Like, you want how there? - Sit down, don't tweet! This was all long before 2014. It's just that Crimea pushed the agenda for several years. Now they hint at the inadmissibility of any protest. These, okay, were going to overthrow someone there. Is it normal for a picket for 6 years? Everything leads to the fact that they will say: "Tomorrow petrol 150, VAT 50%, pensions will be canceled. Whoever shouts Hurray last - march to the zone."
        1. +1
          20 February 2020 08: 33
          Quote: unwillingly
          is a 6-year picket normal?

          The picket in Rostov, it seems, was due to the fact that the houses of residents, located in suitable places for building, began to burn. That is, there it is no longer about saving the regime from the revolution (no matter how crazy the question is with respect to airsoft players), but purely specific topics.
    2. -2
      19 February 2020 12: 56
      Quote: old friend
      Next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will quickly move on to real action.

      And how the Islamist "fighters" simply will not live to see the trial, they will die during the arrest.
      And this is good. Genetics need to be cleaned.
      We have the 24th year of the fight against Islamic terrorism in our yard. Tough, professional, financially secure. What you need to be ....... to try to play with terror in your sandbox.
      1. +5
        19 February 2020 16: 09
        Quote: Spade
        Genetics must be cleaned

        Mine kampf did not read, but approve? Something guards to fascism agreed.
        1. -1
          19 February 2020 16: 11
          Quote: unwillingly
          Mine kampf did not read, but approve?

          Was there genetics?
          Damn, classes ended at school, started ....
          1. +5
            19 February 2020 16: 21
            Don't be trifles at school. From kindergarten, released earlier, tovarisch "marshal". I have not read it, I do not know. Can we, by the way, extremist literature? So, I assumed. But in your statements, the antennae and bangs are somehow visible.
            1. 0
              19 February 2020 17: 56
              Quote: unwillingly
              But in your statements, the antennae and the hook are somehow visible.

              You would have to learn more, read books. And do not look at other people's posts tendrils ....
              Damn, what a day ....
              One in The Hague in Switzerland, another in "Mein Kampf" has a genetics, the third "crime of thought" is original ...
              Here's the word, the exam is evil.
              1. +1
                20 February 2020 09: 45
                Quote: Spade
                Damn, what a day ....

                Be patient. Here is a little more and you will correct genetics for us, you will be happy and calm. Or we to you. Do not blame me. In the meantime, I stop the stupid srach. I don’t know how educated you are, but I am more educated. Come on, Marshal.
                1. 0
                  20 February 2020 10: 00
                  Quote: unwillingly
                  Or we to you.

                  For this, brains are needed .... But your company justifying terrorism clearly does not observe them.
                  1. +2
                    20 February 2020 10: 49
                    Extremes, insults and distortions, dear. All your funds. So who has no brains here? Not seeing halftones is stupidity. If I say that the authorities by their unpopular, to put it mildly, measures give rise to discontent, then I already, it turns out, justify terrorism. Vyshinsky nervously smokes on the sidelines. And "genetics to rule" in a Lapatov way is wow. Remember: "What is the hello - this is the answer."
                    1. 0
                      20 February 2020 10: 55
                      Quote: unwillingly
                      Extremes, insults and distortion, dear. All your funds.

                      Dear, you yourself immediately, without any nonsense, like arguments on the topic of discussion passed to the individual.
                      Remember the phrase "Mine kampf did not read, but approve? Something guards to fascism agreed."Is it written by you? At least I hope so ...

                      And when your transition to personalities was answered in the mirror, you began to whine
                      This man does not paint. Get used to being answered the same in the same place.
                      1. 0
                        20 February 2020 13: 44
                        Yes, I did. I do not approve of extremes. What's with those that these. As well as calls for extrajudicial reprisals. The characters in the case received what the court decided. I'm just trying to convey the idea that everything is not so cloudless in the country. The stratification is terrible, the measures taken so far have caused, to put it mildly, the discontent of the "shirnarmass". So I don’t justify the appearance of such groups, but I draw your attention: these things are largely provoked by the actions of the authorities themselves. To this I usually get the answer that he is a traitor, a mongrel of the State Department, and so on. Not from you. There are enough people like that here. He made a sharp remark, but where is the transition to the individual?
                      2. +1
                        20 February 2020 14: 01
                        Quote: unwillingly
                        Yes, I wrote it.

                        Well, why are you indignant with the answer?

                        I will now give you a small list of proverbs and sayings. In a couple of minutes
                        Presumably, they were also created by the "guardians who agreed to fascism"
                        From a bad seed, do not expect a good tribe
                        What kind, kind and offspring.
                        What is the birch, such is the appendix.
                        Into the uterus and babies.
                        What is the earth, such is the bread
                        What is the root, such is the offspring.
                        A wolf was born, a fox cannot be.
                        What is father, such are his children.


                        Your Caudla has a really big education problem. But you just hang up labels like "guardians". Along the way, confusing Nazism with fascism ...
                        By the way, the term "guardians" first appeared in L. Shvetsova's article on the website of Radio Liberty

                        Quote: unwillingly
                        As well as calls for judicial reprisals.

                        Well, excuse me, guys who are really fighting terrorism are much more important than their own lives and the lives of comrades than lordly approval or disapproval from the couch.
                        Therefore, the majority of terrorists in our country run up against "extrajudicial reprisals" during the seizure. Risk minimization, nothing personal.
                      3. 0
                        20 February 2020 15: 59
                        Thank you, I will know the proverbs and where the term came from. Not everything is bad, what is invented there wink Write more, we will be educated and use less stamps. My problem is that I am not in kodel. Neither the one you signed me up to, nor yours. It was easier with the code. What he wrote there "and we - you" in the heat of the moment. There are no us. Will be - it will be easier. Until then. Yes, and I really don't care what is happening around. Because there are no subcutaneous reserves, either moral or financial, and all the shit that floats past somehow touches and it becomes more difficult for me to live personally. On this I think we will round off. If you understand each other even a little, it's good. No - not destiny.
    3. -2
      19 February 2020 14: 45
      Such cruelty can only give rise to cruelty on the other side. >>>>>
      I'm afraid you're right
  8. +24
    19 February 2020 12: 44
    court ruled to burn Karl Marx’s book Capital seized during searches as a “means of committing a crime” of no value


    Everything you need to know about the mental abilities of current power structures. Well, the statement of the CC judge about the USSR there too. Relatively recently (by historical standards), some in Germany also began with the burning of objectionable books.
    1. +2
      19 February 2020 13: 53
      Hmm ... Powerful conclusion. A book with a hundred million circulation should always be kept at the expense of the state?
    2. -2
      19 February 2020 14: 53
      Interestingly, if there was a portrait of Stalin, would they have burned him too?
    3. +3
      19 February 2020 16: 11
      Yes, and here they are enough. They’re already offering to bring them down during detention, so that the GENETIC in the country can be corrected.
    4. +7
      19 February 2020 16: 27
      Quote: sergo1914
      Everything you need to know about the mental abilities of current power structures.

      It's right. Here the thing is that the post-Soviet authorities of the Russian Federation have degraded so much that they bring any of their actions to complete absurdity. And not even because of some special malice. They just really do not know how and do not understand, they even steal and that is bad .. So they wanted to play state terrorism, and that in the end ....
      Got it, before the political strike book shops. The entire struggle for information hegemony around the "Network case" was completely lost (despite the complete mobilization of the "Olgins"). Now they will think how to get out of this idiotic situation. The most logical thing is to play the old game of the "good Tsar" who reduces the sentence. But even this will not help much.
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 08: 36
        Quote: Odyssey
        The most logical thing is to play the old game of the "good Tsar" decreasing the sentence

        You can't. It turns out that they "caved in" in front of the bespectacled people. The boys won't understand.
  9. +9
    19 February 2020 12: 44
    The revolution is taking place according to objective laws, and not at the request of "infantile intellectuals". For a revolution, first of all, objective (necessary but insufficient) conditions are needed. So don't create them.
  10. +10
    19 February 2020 12: 45
    Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value. Together with Capital, the GRU special forces textbook and several anarchist brochures also confiscated during the searches were “sentenced” to burning.

    Well, somewhere in history we already saw something similar. Bonfires, books different in a bonfire, Capital is so necessary. But then, with trembling hands, gently holding, they open My struggle of Adolf Aloizovich.
    What, thicken? Does not look like it? Of course, it’s not quite similar yet. But dear already faithful step, gentlemen.

    PS And I know that at the end of this road awaits us all. Do not believe it yet? Well, a successful journey, at the end of this journey we will meet. And let's see who the truth remains. hi
  11. +5
    19 February 2020 12: 55
    Meanwhile, the mere presence of people who are young and far from being the most antisocial in their way of life and behavior, ready to embark on the path of struggle with the authorities, the political system that has developed in Russia, is a very alarming fact.

    Question - And were the group members going to fight precisely with the authorities? If you intended to blow somewhere?
    And what intentions was there to blow up? Was preparation for the implementation of intentions? in short, a lot of questions ... but since I did not delve into the topic, there are no judgments, just a series of questions ....
    1. +6
      19 February 2020 13: 03
      It is not clear why they needed Saiga and Vepr carbines, two grenades, smokeless powder, and most importantly, precursors for the manufacture of explosives, namely aluminum powder and ammonium nitrate in commercial quantities. Most likely, aluminum powder was needed for the manufacture of silver paint, and nitrate in order to multiply the soil fertility.
      1. +1
        19 February 2020 14: 07
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        why did they need Saiga and Vepr carbines, two grenades, smokeless gunpowder, and most importantly, precursors for the manufacture of explosives, namely aluminum powder and ammonium nitrate

        But this is already SERIOUS, because if they cannot prove that they were going to jam the fish, A LOT OF FISH, which is also a real violation of the law, but "softer", as it were. The weapon is then to protect / fend off bears, who will sharply oppose the invasion and devastation of their lumpy lands ... what else can lawyers think of ???
        If there are still man or state hateful proclamations, appeals, etc. ... then OH, get it to the fullest. There are no questions if all of the above facts take place to be proved.
        The fact that our security agencies do not play pranks, we understand and want to be sure of this forever.
        In general, so - if everything is done on garlic, there are no questions. The main thing is that you do not have to hear again about the dishonest work of OUR guards, as happened ... not from sources such as OBS, but officially confirmed.
      2. +9
        19 February 2020 16: 16
        Well, since "revolutionaries" - then the presence of "Saiga" and explosives is logical. But what has the drugs found here? "Capital" goes on drugs better? I also remember other "revolutionaries". When with a crossbow and blank cartridges, he allegedly wanted to seize the military unit in Kovrov and go to Moscow. Yeah. There was also one who gave the necessary testimony in a "special order" and made everyone sit down.
        1. +1
          19 February 2020 16: 47
          Quote: unwillingly
          But what have the drugs found here?

          What confuses you?
          1. +1
            20 February 2020 22: 12
            Ideological "red" and drugs do not fit. If there were lessons ...
  12. +3
    19 February 2020 13: 01
    Theoretically, now you can close for any prison term, almost any hunting team, airsoft team, shooting gallery, community of reconstructors, etc.
    It is only necessary to incriminate them what they wanted in France ...
    1. 0
      19 February 2020 15: 13
      And we have every airsoft team with us
      explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances
      ??
    2. +1
      20 February 2020 08: 38
      Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
      It is only necessary to incriminate them what they wanted in France ...

      There was one Napoleon ...
  13. +11
    19 February 2020 13: 02
    Quote: old friend
    Next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will quickly move on to real action.

    If they actually read the founders, they would know that only a revolutionary situation can be the key to successful actions. Otherwise, everything is meaningless. And such has not yet developed, although all the prerequisites are there. We need to work with people, create parties, movements, read and popularize literature. So that at the right moment - to be in the right place and behave correctly. And individual terror will not lead to anything, this is still the practice of the Left Social Revolutionaries. So - I doubt very much the results of the type of investigation and trial .. Having blinded such a huge term for what they have not done yet - the authorities simply showed that she was afraid of them, of them and their followers. That's all.
    1. 0
      19 February 2020 13: 55
      They will blow up not the government, but ordinary citizens. And all the howling "they are children" and "have not had time to do anything yet" is inappropriate. If they did, then a howl would rise that the authorities had overlooked.
      1. +1
        19 February 2020 15: 02
        Quote: _Sergey_
        They will not blow up power, but ordinary citizens.

        And those who shout "give revolution" do not think about it.
  14. +9
    19 February 2020 13: 02
    Interestingly, here everyone really believes that these characters could crank out the overthrow of power?
    1. +3
      19 February 2020 13: 06
      These characters could carry out attacks. One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.
      1. +2
        19 February 2020 13: 16
        I am not familiar with the materials of the case; I have not followed the process. I accidentally found out from the news recently. To overthrow the power of a rather weak group. My opinion. Even if they are a tool, then who is the customer?
        1. +3
          19 February 2020 13: 22
          Quote: Slavs
          To overthrow the power of a rather weak group.

          And this is the "invention" of the defenders of these washers.
          In fact, no "overthrow of the government" (article 278)
          They were tried for "Creation and participation in a terrorist community" (Article 205) Well, the accompanying illegal circulation of weapons and ammunition, explosives and drugs
      2. +1
        19 February 2020 13: 33
        Quote: Spade
        One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.

        Truth? Which one?
        1. +1
          19 February 2020 13: 35
          Quote: Octopus
          Truth? Which one?

          Pchelintsev
          1. +5
            19 February 2020 13: 40
            You are about the charge of the episode of the 11th year, which is with him was filmed? More principled than the prosecutor, as I understand it?
            1. -5
              19 February 2020 13: 45
              Quote: Octopus
              Are you talking about the charge on the episode of the 11th year that was withdrawn from it?

              Yes.
              Quote: Octopus
              More principled than the prosecutor, as I understand it?

              Definitely.
              I know what terrorism is not from online stories.

              Such bites must be crushed in the cradle. So far no one was hurt.
              1. -1
                19 February 2020 14: 56
                If only mom allows you. And then I beat Call jf Duty
                1. 0
                  19 February 2020 15: 07
                  Quote: Varyag71
                  If only mom allows you. And then I beat Call jf Duty

                  Charming ...
                  When your coders run out of arguments, you try to troll. Often very dumb ....

                  For example, by writing such a phrase to someone who can tell where and why a bridge was thrown across the irrigation ditch north of Bamut. And in which houses on the southeastern outskirts of Komsomolskoye were snipers "Alpha" laughing

                  Imagine how ridiculous to read your nonsense about mom and a game that I have never played. Unlike you, apparently laughing laughing laughing
      3. +3
        19 February 2020 14: 03
        One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.
        This charge was dropped, it says a lot! Was there such an incident in principle.
        1. -6
          19 February 2020 14: 23
          Quote: MoJloT
          This charge was dropped, it says a lot!

          Конечно.
          About the laziness of prosecutors, about Pchelintsev's curvature, about the strange rate of "absorption of less severe punishment by more severe"

          But does not mean that this bastard did not try to commit a terrorist attack. Only his curvature saved people from death.
          1. +5
            20 February 2020 08: 43
            Quote: Spade
            But does not mean that this bastard did not try to commit a terrorist attack

            This suggests that the accusation of the episode is so delusional that even the FSB was embarrassed, although, admittedly, there is little embarrassment there. They removed the only real fact from the case simply because of laziness, but, keep your pocket wider.
      4. 0
        19 February 2020 14: 55
        These characters could carry out attacks
        And they might not have implemented it, by this principle we are now planting? Just in case? Do you have arms, legs? So you are a potential terrorist, I advise you to write a confession before specially trained people have helped you!
        1. +3
          19 February 2020 14: 59
          Quote: MoJloT
          And they might not have implemented it, by this principle we are now planting?

          Yes, and for a very long time.
          Intent is as punishable as the commission of a crime.

          You did not know about this?
          1. +2
            19 February 2020 15: 05
            Intent is also punished
            In Russia, yes, it’s possible to ring out for thoughts in your head, a careless word, or you can ring out in general for nothing, this is not about that, everyone knows that. But here's how you read the thoughts of the accused? This is more interesting)
            1. +3
              19 February 2020 15: 19
              Quote: MoJloT
              In Russia, yes, it’s possible to ring out for thoughts in your head, a careless word, or you can ring out in general for nothing, this is not about that, everyone knows that. But here's how you read the thoughts of the accused? This is more interesting)

              And this is in its purest form demagogy.

              Let's do it this way. A man with a hammer comes up to you. Getting ready to smash your head. And you can't stop him, because you can't "judge for thoughts"
              Let it hit ....
              But generally funny.
              When a terrorist attack occurs, your codela screams "why wasn't it prevented?"
              When a terrorist attack is prevented, your Caula squeals "Can't be judged for thoughts.

              You, damn it, decide.
              Including about whether you are ready to die yourself and sacrifice your relatives in order to exercise the right of terrorists to prepare terrorist acts with impunity.
              1. +1
                19 February 2020 15: 29
                Well, so you start demagoguery and everything that you have just written is pure demagogy. Of course, you can arrange a dispute on this scribble, but it’s a pity to spend time on your Kodla.
                1. +4
                  19 February 2020 15: 36
                  Quote: MoJloT
                  Well, so you start demagoguery and everything that you have just written is pure demagogy.

                  Ага.
                  This is where I crucify on the topic that some good people should not be judged for the intent to commit a crime and for its preparation, because
                  "onizhedeti" and in general, such nice things.

                  Well, since we are ready to sacrifice ourselves and our loved ones for the sake of the principle "you cannot be judged by thoughts." Or let others take the rap for it. Like a potential corpse from the military registration and enlistment office of the Oktyabrsky district of Penza. You do not feel sorry for him and his family, let the kids play as terrorists. The military is more, the military is less ... women still give birth.
                  1. +4
                    19 February 2020 15: 40
                    Yeah. This is where I crucify on the topic that some good people should not be judged for the intent to commit a crime and for its preparation, because
                    "onizhedeti" and in general, such nice things.
                    When you find yourself in such a situation, I won’t be surprised that law enforcement officers will identify you as a terrorist or that you shot at Lenin, and you confirm everything. Your naivety borders on stupidity.
                    1. +6
                      19 February 2020 16: 09
                      Quote: MoJloT
                      When you find yourself in this situation

                      Once again, I already found myself. My wife went to my parents, I replaced a colleague and stuck in the barracks. In the early morning, after I kicked everyone out for charging, there was a crash.
                      Anxiety, boiling, one of the blown up houses turned out to be the one in which he rented an apartment.

                      And if these ... ... strangled earlier, "for thoughts", people would have remained alive.
                      After all, they are exactly the same as these "children" began

                      I understand that you do not care about possible victims; propaganda is more important to you. But do not show it so frankly.
                      1. -1
                        19 February 2020 16: 12
                        Anxiety, seething, one of the blown-up houses turned out to be the one in which he rented an apartment. And if these ... were strangled earlier, "for thoughts", people would have remained alive.
                        After all, they are exactly the same as these "children" began
                        You do not need to write comments, but to work out the injury. Otherwise, until the end of days, "onizhedeti" will appear everywhere.
                      2. +5
                        19 February 2020 17: 48
                        Quote: MoJloT
                        You do not need to write comments, but work through an injury.

                        Or is it better for you to treat something so that you cease to justify terrorism?
                      3. -3
                        19 February 2020 18: 00
                        so that you stop justifying terrorism?
                        I do not condone, a good terrorist is a dead terrorist. You just seem to have it already, this is not very good. Seriously, take care of your health.
                      4. +4
                        19 February 2020 18: 13
                        Quote: MoJloT
                        I do not condone, a good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

                        Exactly!
                        And these were just planted.

                        Quote: MoJloT
                        You just seem to have it already, this is not very good. Seriously, take care of your health.

                        Let's continue this sweet conversation about "thoughts do not judge" on another thread.
                        This one: https://topwar.ru/168091-v-moskve-zaderzhana-gruppa-radikalnyh-islamistov.html

                        I'd like to know your authoritative opinion about the arbitrariness of the authorities.
                      5. +2
                        20 February 2020 09: 09
                        Quote: Spade
                        Let's continue this sweet conversation about "thoughts do not judge" on another thread.
                        This one: https://topwar.ru/168091-v-moskve-zaderzhana-gruppa-radikalnyh-islamistov.html

                        Yes, an absolutely adequate example, thanks. The faces covered the nest of the janitors and sew them bin Laden for forbidden books.

                        What is especially interesting, a raid on janitors in the Moscow Region is an occasion for you to talk about how well and correctly torture Russians in Penza. And there is absolutely no reason to talk about the fact that Russia has a visa regime with Switzerland and a visa-free regime with Tajikistan.
                      6. +1
                        20 February 2020 10: 04
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Yes, an absolutely adequate example, thanks. The faces covered the nest of the janitors and sew them Bin Laden for forbidden books.

                        So why did you keep silent on that branch? Why don't you protect the nannies?
                      7. 0
                        20 February 2020 11: 01
                        I do not read news on the site at all.
                      8. +1
                        20 February 2020 11: 16
                        Quote: Octopus
                        I do not read news on the site at all.

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        In fact, the link is in my post.
                        It seems that you are not only not reading the news, but also the posts you are responding to.

                        But it is, the lyrics.
                        Now you know that cute children are "pressed for thoughts", for "unprovable intent." Why are you still not on that branch?
                      9. 0
                        20 February 2020 11: 26
                        Quote: Spade
                        Why are you still not on that branch?

                        Again. I do not go to the News section of the site. And yes, this is exactly the same case as the Network, only with electric wonders did not have time to turn around.
                      10. +2
                        20 February 2020 11: 33
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Again. I do not go to the News section of the site.

                        Are you afraid?
                        Reasonably.
                        The justification of terrorism is not khukh-mukhra
                      11. 0
                        20 February 2020 14: 17
                        Quote: Spade
                        The justification of terrorism is not khukh-mukhra

                        I look, do not leave your favorite job in retirement?
              2. +1
                20 February 2020 09: 04
                Quote: Spade
                Let's do it this way. A man with a hammer comes up to you. Getting ready to smash your head. And you can't stop him, because you can't "judge for thoughts"

                Of course not. If you came to Leroy, stood at the box office and started killing everyone who picks up hammers, because they are supposedly preparing to attack you, then the conversation with you is short. And for the cause: they have - the alleged intention, you - the case, the corpses of a peacekeeper.

                The search for a weapon in a party, whether it is airsoft, or whether it’s a shootout, is precisely the shumon of hammers at Leroy’s box office.
                1. 0
                  20 February 2020 10: 10
                  Quote: Octopus
                  Of course not.

                  And here is your balabolstvo.
                  What is "no" if he did nothing?
                  He didn’t hit, so he shouldn’t "sew an article"
                  Whenever it comes to you personally, you cowardly engage in double standards. For we are sure that someone else should suffer from the "freedom" for which you stand up.

                  Quote: Octopus
                  The search for a weapon in a party, whether it is airsoft, or whether it’s a shootout, is precisely the shumon of hammers at Leroy’s box office.

                  Lying is bad.
                  See, exactly what I was talking about is happening now.
                  You are lying.
                  "Forgetting" about throwing bottles with a combustible mixture into the recruiting office. This is how your codela loses the rest of the trust. And then whines "why the wrong people choose Putin instead of ours"
                  1. +1
                    20 February 2020 11: 17
                    Quote: Spade
                    What is "no" if he did nothing?

                    Also "no". You cannot shoot a man with a hammer because Do you thinkthat he is threatening you. Except when you are in your own right. For example, you are at home and you did not call him. In the opposite case - you climbed into his house - he is right in any case.

                    But this is the lyrics. Under current law, you cannot attack "preemptively" under any circumstances.
                    Quote: Spade
                    As soon as it concerns you personally, you cowardly include double standards

                    No, what are you. I personally have extremely liberal standards. They consist in the fact that under no circumstances should garbage be involved in their affairs. Whoever has littered himself either sat down or took sin into his soul.
                    1. +1
                      20 February 2020 11: 31
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Also "no". You can't shoot a man with a hammer

                      This is all ordinary demagogy.
                      The question was something else. And your company persistently yulit, not wanting to answer it.
                      A man with a hammer is not somewhere out there, abstractly. I already know that your spit on people.

                      A man with a hammer near you personally. It has an unprovable intent to kill you personally. For real, for good. Already swung.
                      It is necessary to wait on your advice, so that there is something to punish him for?
                      Ready to sacrifice yourself for an idea?

                      Quote: Octopus
                      They consist in the fact that under no circumstances should garbage be involved in their affairs.

                      8)))))
                      Couch.
                      Apparently, you have never encountered serious situations, therefore such a "hero"
                      If something serious happens, "not attract" will fail. Either they will come to them, or they will come for you. But they will come anyway.


                      Quote: Octopus
                      I personally have extremely liberal standards.

                      These are not "liberal", they are purely rogue standards.
                      It is the "thieves" and not the "criminal" ones, because it is not shameful for a "muzhik" to turn to law enforcement officers. Not welcome, but not disastrous either. But for those who "shake the regime" ... so yes. "under no circumstances should you attract"

                      Liberals always advocate the priority of the Law.
                      1. -1
                        20 February 2020 16: 54
                        Quote: Spade
                        Liberals always favor the priority of the Law

                        You confuse me with liberal Putin. Normal liberals could stand for priority right. And not for the sanctity of a piece of paper that people wrote, confident that personally these pieces of paper would never relate to them.

                        No right in Russia there is no and will not be in the near future. Right is the essence restriction forces, and the law, in the Russian sense, is the essence tool strength. Too cleverly said, but in no other way.

                        Quote: Spade
                        These are not "liberal", they are purely rogue standards.

                        No, just liberal. In the dashing 90s, there were "normal" guys who could be contacted, and repulsed lawless people. Them necessary was to distinguish. So from the official there are no normal at all, quite a long time ago. In the early 00s there was everything, now it is not.
                        Quote: Spade
                        If something serious happens, "not attract" will fail. Either they will come to them, or they will come for you. But they will come anyway.

                        Yes Yes. No one argues that they can cause problems. They cannot solve them.
                        Quote: Spade
                        A man with a hammer near you personally. It has an unprovable intent to kill you personally. For real, for good. Already swung.

                        If I personally meeting a person who already swung - I will do according to the circumstances. To different circumstances. If I meet a person who plans to plan - I’ll do otherwise.
                      2. +1
                        20 February 2020 17: 29
                        Quote: Octopus
                        No, just liberal.

                        No, this is just a thug in its purest form. Unclouded. Your lips have already been sewn up, you just have to start pricking your domes and singing "murka" ...
                        No luck with liberals
                        laughing laughing laughing laughing

                        Quote: Octopus
                        Yes Yes. No one argues that they can cause problems. They cannot solve them.

                        Who cares. Anyway, without them it will not work in any situation.
                        And "under no circumstances should you involve garbage in your business." possible only in one case - completely isolating yourself from any possible conflicts.

                        Quote: Octopus
                        If I personally meet a person who has already swung

                        You will be required to wait until he crushes your skull. You are an ideological person, aren't you?
                      3. 0
                        20 February 2020 18: 28
                        Quote: Spade
                        No, it’s just a damn thing in its purest form

                        The urks have long been littering.
                        Quote: Spade
                        No luck with liberals

                        Russia is not lucky with everything.
                        Quote: Spade
                        completely isolating yourself from any possible conflicts.

                        Not quite. You miss the voice of the verb.
                        Quote: Spade
                        You are an ideological person, aren't you?

                        A little ideological. But humanism is not among my ideas.

                        Again.
                        I do not believe that the goal of the participants in the process was to protect society in general and me in particular from real-life threats.
                        Unlike most liberals, I otherwise distribute blame for what happened. In my list of directly shoulder cases, the masters are far from the first place.
          2. -1
            19 February 2020 17: 31
            Quote: Spade
            Intent is as punishable as the commission of a crime.

            thought crime? already original.
            1. +3
              19 February 2020 17: 50
              Quote: polar fox
              thought crime? already original.

              Not original for 72 years.
              At school it was necessary to study better ....

              Damn, where the site is heading .....
          3. +2
            20 February 2020 08: 47
            Quote: Spade
            Intent is also punished

            No, actually. Because intent unprovableprovable preparation. Which, in this case, are not proven.
            Although on the other hand, you are right. The Russian legislator has long and hard experimented with the concept of thought crime. Malicious against people's power - you will sit!
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 10: 13
              Quote: Octopus
              Because intent is unprovable

              laughing laughing laughing
              This is a pearl ...
              Something new and advanced in jurisprudence
              1. 0
                20 February 2020 11: 18
                It was new and advanced 2 thousand years ago. They do not punish intentions.
                1. +2
                  20 February 2020 11: 39
                  Quote: Octopus
                  It was new and advanced 2 thousand years ago. They do not punish intentions.

                  More and more fun.
                  Already pulls on the Nobel.
                  In the field of literature for a work in the style of an alternative story
            2. 0
              20 February 2020 12: 14
              Quote: Octopus
              provable preparations. Which, in this case, are not proven.

              A source?
              1. +1
                20 February 2020 12: 53
                The source of what?

                There will be a case in the ECHR - we will see what is proved there.
                1. 0
                  20 February 2020 14: 20
                  Quote: Octopus
                  The source of what?

                  Your words. How it is known that are unproven.
                  1. +1
                    20 February 2020 20: 04
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    How it is known that are unproven.

                    Pure taste.
                    1. 0
                      20 February 2020 20: 16
                      Quote: Octopus
                      Pure taste.

                      That is out of nowhere.
                      1. +1
                        20 February 2020 21: 42
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is out of nowhere

                        Naturally. I did not carry out the process. So I use for judgment only the reputation of the participants. Me It's enough.
                      2. 0
                        21 February 2020 07: 05
                        Quote: Octopus
                        That's enough for me.

                        To state unequivocally?
                      3. 0
                        21 February 2020 08: 17
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        To state unequivocally?

                        Of course. I didn’t fall from the sky.

                        I am forced to draw your attention to ideological differences. You, it seems to me, think that penal servitude in the administrative order for alleged rebels is a struggle against revolution. I am deeply convinced that this is a struggle behind revolution. I do not hate the old regime because it tormented the poor Bolsheviks. I hate him, among other things, for bringing the Bolsheviks to power. He was disgusting to such an extent that (un) people who at least took the trouble to lie beautifully broke the bank.
                      4. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 49
                        Quote: Octopus
                        You, it seems to me, think that penal servitude in the administrative order for alleged rebels is a struggle against revolution. I am deeply convinced that this is a struggle for revolution.

                        If this is such a hard labor with which some escaped several times, then yes.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        (not) people who at least took the trouble to lie beautifully
                        I don’t remember who, it seems Mark Twain, said that lying will always have an advantage over the truth.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        He was disgusting to such an extent that
                        It was an ordinary state of its era, no better no worse than others.
                      5. +1
                        21 February 2020 11: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If this is such a hard labor with which some escaped several times

                        I have no other hard labor for you.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        lies will always have an advantage over the truth.

                        Yes. Especially before such a truth.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        an ordinary state of its era, no better no worse than others.

                        It would not be worse - it would not fall apart.
                        But partly you are right. The Russia we lost is the bottom level of that time. But the USSR is not the bottom, it is generally parallel reality and non-linear geometry.
                      6. 0
                        21 February 2020 15: 59
                        Quote: Octopus
                        I have no other hard labor for you.
                        But after the revolution it appeared. They didn’t run away from the camps in the USSR several times.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Especially before such a truth.
                        Before anyone.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        It would not be worse - it would not fall apart.
                        Thanks to high-ranking traitors - generals and ministers.
                      7. +2
                        21 February 2020 17: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        high-ranking traitors - generals and ministers.

                        Let's say. And they also walked in that crowd at the mines, is that for sure?
                      8. +1
                        21 February 2020 18: 49
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And they, too, walked in that crowd at the mines

                        You already decide what it is about - a particular case or the collapse of the whole country. The country was destroyed by those who did not care how many people would die in the riots.
                      9. +2
                        21 February 2020 21: 36
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You already decide what it is about

                        That you decide. Either you have a revolution, and then be kind enough to find among the killed Nikolaev generals who removed it - or a specific labor dispute, and then be kind enough not to remember the red moloch in vain.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Here you are

                        And this answer will make me sad. So why is Treshchenkov not a commissioner?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        order

                        Mayhem.
                        It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department. No, not come in?
                      10. 0
                        21 February 2020 23: 16
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Either you have a revolution, and then please be kind to find among the killed Nikolaev generals who removed it - or a specific labor dispute
                        And what to look for him? Who will rule the country was argued about.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        So why is Treshchenkov not a commissioner?
                        Was he a communist?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department.
                        AND? Stolypin was already dead, if you do not know ..
                      11. 0
                        22 February 2020 05: 48
                        Commissioner (from lat. Commissārius “authorized”) - the position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of a commission. An official vested with special powers by a government or an international organization, authorized, vested with sole authority. In particular, the governor, representative of the center or a person temporarily endowed with special powers. Less often - a member of the commission, most often the executive.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department.
                        AND? Stolypin was already dead, if you do not know ..

                        What did you want to say by this?
                      12. 0
                        22 February 2020 06: 29
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of the commission

                        In this sense, I don’t know. He was a captain who commanded his subordinates.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        What without a stolypin
                        After his death, sabotage of everything that he tried to do began.
                      13. 0
                        22 February 2020 06: 36
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of the commission

                        In this sense, I don’t know. He was a captain who commanded his subordinates.

                        Well, it turns out that he didn’t have any special powers? Is that what he showed arbitrariness? Or did what was ordered and then he was sent away?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        What without a stolypin
                        After his death, sabotage of everything that he tried to do began.

                        And so the media lied for any reason? And about the other mass shootings they lied the same thing? Well, what would annoy the late Stolypin?
                      14. 0
                        22 February 2020 08: 16
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, it turns out I didn’t have special powers?

                        What powers? He was a senior officer in that place at that time.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And about other mass shootings, the same thing lied

                        The fact that an active information war was going on against the current authorities was the secret of Poshinel. Well, in this particular case, the article was published the very next day, before at least some proceedings were held.
                      15. 0
                        22 February 2020 08: 25
                        Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering. You are confusing articles.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The fact that in time there was an active information war against the current government

                        And the authorities, well, simply didn’t give any reason whatsoever, so the Orthodox were shot at not by the fact that these Gentiles in Germany.
                        Well, if the mouthpiece of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is leading such a war, then what kind of power is this.
                      16. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 29
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering
                        And only students care about you.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And the authorities, well, simply didn’t give any reason.

                        I have had controversy on this topic several times, and for some reason it always turned out that the stories that the authorities were constantly shooting me for nothing were greatly exaggerated. The force was used, but the reasons for the use were the same.
                      17. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 32
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering
                        And only students care about you.

                        And where do you get such conclusions?
                        Well, what were the reasons for the Lensky Mine?
                      18. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 50
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And where do you get such conclusions?
                        Question mark.
                      19. 0
                        22 February 2020 18: 22
                        No, explain what kind of logic do you get such conclusions?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, what were the reasons for the Lensky Mine?
                      20. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 56
                        http://elib.shpl.ru/pages/3110721/zooms/7
                      21. 0
                        23 February 2020 04: 20
                        And you do not want to give a link to the 244 page?
                      22. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 03
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And you are on page 244

                        And there is also page 246, which explains that, from the point of view of the gendarmes and soldiers, the crowd continued to move.
                      23. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 08
                        And a bunch of witnesses claiming the opposite .... You still write something about stakes and branches, and in general you get a picture "why lie to the policeman" and "if we find drugs."
                      24. +1
                        22 February 2020 09: 28
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what to look for him? Who will rule the country was argued about.

                        Let's bliss again? In Lena mines argued about the fate of the monarchy in Russia?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Was he a communist?

                        And what do I care about the political views of the mass murderer? Conditional Branwick was not a communist, then what?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Stolypin was already dead

                        And what does that change? Enemies of the people wound up in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
                        For your question:
                        1. I decided to market. Lenzoto had some problems with such methods. It was the liberals who were then relaxed, now they would have personally accused Gunzburg of the massacre.
                        2. Here is the most comprehensive report of Manukhin, enlighten.
                        http://elib.shpl.ru/ru/nodes/43683-manuhin-s-s-vsepoddanneyshiy-otchet-chlena-gosudarstvennogo-soveta-senatora-taynogo-sovetnika-manuhina-po-ispolneniyu-vysochayshe-vozlozhennogo-na-nego-27-aprelya-1912-goda-rassledovaniya-o-zabastovke-na-lenskih-promyslah-spb-1912
                      25. 0
                        22 February 2020 17: 38
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Let's bliss again?
                        Let's bliss again? You already decide who you are writing about the traitor generals who overthrew the tsar (though they later regretted it very much) or about LR?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And what do I care about the political views of the mass murderer?
                        In Russia and the USSR, the concept of commissar is associated with the Communists.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Here is the most comprehensive report of Manukhin, enlighten.

                        Page 237 of the report (or 249 of the total number of sheets) - the workers were going to force the release of those arrested. Have you read what you are referring to? Well, what was the captain supposed to do? Lay down a weapon? I wonder if in the US the crowd will try to storm the prison, what will the police do?
                      26. 0
                        22 February 2020 20: 45
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In Russia and the USSR, the concept of commissar is associated with the Communists.

                        These communists were shot in the 37th. Again. If a person kills workers, what do I care about his political views?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You already decide who you are writing about the traitor generals who overthrew the tsar (though they later regretted it very much) or about LR?

                        Again. That you decide.
                        The Tsar was removed (late, too late). ow.kn. Nikolay Nikolaevich, general. Brusilov, Evert, Sakharov, Ruzsky, vice-admirals Nepenin and Kolchak, by vote, 6 in favor (including owner kn), one abstained (Kolchak). Not a single Lena worker, I draw your attention. So your argument about defending the Tsar and the Throne does not work.
                        A specific situation developed in the mines, which in no way, in the slightest way, influenced what was happening in Petersburg. And here again - which time! - shown attitude of Nicholas and the gendarmes to vile class * - influenced, and quite.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        the workers were about to force the release of those arrested.

                        and?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, what was the captain supposed to do?

                        Do not arrest them, of course. If you did stupid things - let go and move away.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I wonder if in the US the crowd will try to storm the prison, what will the police do?

                        For starters, using soldiers against American citizens is a crime. Any general who has authorized it will bury himself, at least in terms of career. In a similar story - Little Steel - CHOPs (half-brothers) stood for the ORDER.
                        Secondly, if some gentleman from the infantry arrives in the American town and begins to dispose of it, the sheriff will come in and ask who he is.
                        Do not mix police created by citizens to protect citizens and dogs that protect the regime from citizens just.

                        * vile = tax. Vile estate = taxpayers.
                      27. 0
                        22 February 2020 22: 41
                        Quote: Octopus
                        These communists were shot in the 37th. Again.
                        I know.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        If a person kills workers, what
                        This is not a matter of views, but of terminology.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Do not arrest them, of course
                        Arrest the crowd several times more?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        a similar story - Little Steel - CHOPs (half-brothers) stood for the ORDER
                        That is, in the USA, bandits are following order?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Secondly, if some gentleman from the infantry arrives in the American town and begins to dispose of it, the sheriff will come to him and ask
                        In fact, he did not come on his own, but as an official. And by the way, the gendarme is not an army.
                      28. +1
                        22 February 2020 22: 53
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This is not a matter of views, but of terminology.

                        Case in business. Kills people - the enemy, protects people - an ally. It’s not so difficult, it seems to me.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Arrest the crowd several times more?

                        Do not arrest anyone. He was not needed there at all, and the soldiers all the more. Unexpectedly, right?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, in the USA, bandits are following order?

                        That is, bandits were engaged in power support / power dispersal of strikes in the States, and bombers / gendarmes in Russia. The outcome for Russia is a little predictable.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In fact, he did not come on his own, but as an official.

                        What does "official" mean? I'm a little tired of asking the same questions that you ignore. What exactly and who exactly was the gendarme protecting in this episode?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        the gendarme is not an army.

                        Soldiers fired, not gendarmes. Another Russian tradition is the war of the army with its people. Suvorov, so to speak, tradition.
                      29. 0
                        22 February 2020 23: 08
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Case in business. Kills people - the enemy, protects people - an ally.
                        So, when they kill a drug dealer who offered armed resistance during the arrest, then the policeman is the enemy?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Do not arrest anyone.
                        I remember I gave you a link to you the proposed report that said that these workers were planning an attack on the place of detention of those arrested.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        That is, bandits were engaged in power support / power dispersal of strikes in the States, and bombers / gendarmes in Russia.
                        And why the bombers and gendarmes together?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        What does "official" mean?
                        This means that he arrived there as a representative of the state apparatus, having received an appropriate order.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Another Russian tradition is the war of the army with its people.
                        I remember in the USA when part of the people wanted to secede, then soldiers also shot at it.
                      30. +2
                        23 February 2020 02: 33
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So, when they kill a drug dealer who offered armed resistance during the arrest, then the policeman is the enemy?

                        If a policeman kills random people, and then claims that it terrorists drug dealers - yes, of course. If we are really talking about drug dealers, then you need to figure out what exactly was there, crime or provocation of the authorities (see "the Fast and Furios case").
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        These workers planned an attack on the place of detention of those arrested.

                        So what?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And why the bombers and gendarmes together?

                        With the one that both brought violence to labor disputes. Moreover, it was Lensky's shooting that shows, among many other incidents, that it was the tsar’s punishers, and not the bombers, who chose the path of mass terror for Russia. First of all, we should recall Stolypin, of course.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This means that he arrived there as a representative of the state apparatus, having received an appropriate order.

                        This means that the massacre was not carried out by a separate, insane punitive with his sonderkommando, but by the regime as a whole. The king was reminded of this a few years later. Unfortunately, not only him alone.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I remember in the USA when part of the people wanted to secede, then soldiers also shot at it.

                        Yes, the US civil war, like any other civil war, is a crime of power against the people. Russia greatly underestimates how monstrous the crimes of Lincoln and the company were. Losses of America in Civil, as a percentage of the population, twenty times higher than in World War II.

                        And what does this change in the case of Lena mines? Did they want to secede in the Far East? Honestly, I’m starting to tire of your manner of imputing miners at the devil on pockets either VOSR, the drug cartel, the assault on the Bastille, or the civil war in the United States in general.
                      31. 0
                        23 February 2020 04: 26
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And what does this change in the case of Lena mines? Did they want to secede in the Far East? Honestly, I’m starting to tire of your manner of imputing miners at the devil on pockets either VOSR, the drug cartel, the assault on the Bastille, or the civil war in the United States in general.

                        In general, the "miners" have committed a "crime" more terrible than terrorism - they encroached on the excess profits of the owner-capitalists.
                      32. +1
                        23 February 2020 11: 01
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        encroached on the excess profits of the owner-capitalists.

                        )))
                        Although I throw a sketch on the fan about gesheft, but this is not serious. To Lenzoto and personally to Ginzburg, this whole story came out sideways.

                        Treschenkov did what he did because with people - stricter. The Russia we lost was a place where for a huge amount defenders of the Throne and Faith it was such methods of public, God forgive me, relaysons were the only possible ones.

                        It is not surprising that when people appeared, too, frankly, without much sensitivity, but at least seriously engaged in agitation and hearing (in those years) what they were told in response, the issue was resolved radically with songs with these defenders of the See.
                      33. 0
                        23 February 2020 11: 07
                        So sideways then it happened, and at that moment there was complete confidence in the jurisdiction.
                      34. +1
                        23 February 2020 11: 17
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        full confidence in jurisdiction

                        So no one ever judged them. Purely flew by grandmas, flew great. A considerable part of the workers' claims is not to Peter at all, but to the jackals on the ground.

                        No need to drive Soviet propaganda. Nicholas and his gendarmes were not a fighting detachment of capital. For him, the capitalists were as much an enemy as the people.
                      35. 0
                        23 February 2020 11: 26
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Nicholas and his gendarmes were not a fighting detachment of capital.

                        But what do you mean by this? It’s just interesting - when the capitalists are not under jurisdiction, and you can shoot and shoot hard workers if there is no more strength to endure the bestial situation, then what is it?
                      36. +1
                        23 February 2020 11: 42
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        capitalists are not under jurisdiction, but hard workers can be shot and if the bestial situation is no longer tolerated, then what is it?

                        About the relationship between merchants and the authorities in the context of state and public interests, we read Gogol's book "The Inspector General", it is short. And quite modern, by the way.
                      37. 0
                        23 February 2020 11: 52
                        About 30000 couriers, or what did she carve herself? At the time of Gogol, there wasn’t much capitalism in Russia yet.
                      38. +1
                        23 February 2020 12: 33
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        About 30000 couriers, or what she carved herself?

                        Already the Inspector is not strong. Russia is gone.
                        The mayor (with displeasure). Ah, no words now! Did you know that the very official you complained about will now marry my daughter? What? AND? what do you say now? Now I’m ... u! .. deceiving the people ... You’ll do it in a row with the treasury, inflate it for a hundred thousand by putting rotten cloth, and then donate twenty arshins, and give you another reward for that? Yes, if you knew, it would be so for you ... And the belly sticks forward: he is a merchant; do not touch him. "We, says, will not yield to the nobles either." Yes nobleman ... oh you, erysipelas! - the noble learns the sciences: although he is whipped in school, but for the cause, so that he knows the useful. What about you? - you start in the fraud, the owner beats you because you do not know how to deceive. Even a boy, “Our Father” you don’t know, and you’re already measuring; but as soon as you trample your belly and fill your pocket, you are so enchanted! Foo you, how unseen! Because you blow sixteen samovars a day, is that why it matters? Yes, I do not care about your head and your importance!
                        Merchants (bowing). Guilty, Anton Antonovich!
                        The mayor. To complain? And who helped you lose your mind when you built a bridge and wrote a tree for twenty thousand, while it was not even a hundred rubles? I helped you, goat beard! Did you forget that? Having shown this to you, I could also send you to Siberia. What do you say? and?
                        One of the merchants. Blame God, Anton Antonovich! Sly beguiled. And go ahead complaining. Oh, what you like satisfaction, do not be angry only!
                        The mayor. Do not be angry! Now you are lying at my feet. From what? - because mine took; and if you were at least a little on your side, you would trample me, Kanalya, into the dirt, and you would pile a log from above.
                        Merchants (bow at the feet). Do not destroy, Anton Antonovich!
                      39. 0
                        23 February 2020 12: 44
                        Well, where about the capitalists? And what kind of interaction did you think it was — when, in the midst of the first world war, the manufacturing capitalists demanded that the tsar double the purchase prices for ammunition for them and this was done, despite the war and the shell hunger?
                      40. +1
                        23 February 2020 13: 17
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, where about the capitalists?

                        And the belly pops forward: he is a merchant; do not touch him. "We, says, will not yield to the nobles either."

                        And this, in your opinion, about what? Not about the attempts of the bourgeoisie to obtain the privileges of the upper classes of feudal society?
                      41. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 25
                        Why are you doing this?
                      42. +2
                        23 February 2020 15: 50
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Why are you doing this?

                        Quote: Octopus
                        Nicholas and his gendarmes were not a fighting detachment of capital
                      43. 0
                        23 February 2020 13: 20
                        Quote: Octopus
                        If a cop kills random people
                        And were there random people?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        So what?
                        You do not understand the fact of the crime of forceful release of those arrested? Hmm.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        With the one that both brought violence to labor disputes.
                        And in the USA bandits were engaged in violence.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        This means that
                        he was an official in execution. After all, you asked who he is and where from?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        that the massacre did not
                        Read what you yourself refer to.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        And what does this change in the case of Lena mines?
                        Well, you were talking about traditions, so I gave you an example of traditions.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Honestly, your manner of imputing starts to bore me
                        Well, so you constantly begin to leave, then to Suvorov, then to the sheriffs.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        ORDER by caps - this is a quote from you.
                        You wrote about half-brotherhood.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        In Chicago, the millionth city, 16 were killed during the events under discussion

                        Apparently the police had more skills in confronting the crowd. Just a few years earlier, in 1863, the army overwhelmed the riots in New York
                      44. +1
                        23 February 2020 15: 54
                        Talking with you is as tiring as it is pointless. Round off.
                      45. 0
                        24 February 2020 15: 31
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Talking with you is as tiring as it is pointless.

                        Not surprised.
        2. +3
          19 February 2020 17: 15
          If you believe that terrorism charges are brought only after the attack, then you are deeply mistaken, read article 205 of the Criminal Code. By the way, there is also about the justification of terrorism.
    2. +4
      19 February 2020 13: 32
      Quote: Slavs
      Interestingly, here everyone really believes that these characters could crank out the overthrow of power?

      The Lord is with you, no one thinks so.
    3. +2
      19 February 2020 13: 59
      Yah? It's about terrorist attacks. About the flare development of actions in a conditional organized group in case of initial effectiveness.
    4. +8
      19 February 2020 14: 09
      Yes, something happens all the time. Then two pensioners armed with crossbows go to take the Kremlin. That shaman suddenly begins a campaign in Moscow.
  15. +18
    19 February 2020 13: 24
    There are 3 facts to be noted.
    1) The most commonplace is that if a structure is created it needs to do something. All these "E centers" have absolutely nothing to do. For in Russia now there are simply no really active people opposing the authorities. There are no ideals - socialism is discredited by the betrayal of the Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin, liberalism - by the reality of market reforms. But if they have nothing to do, they will be dismissed. Hence the classic hardware logic - you need to come up with things so as not to be thrown out of the system and not become ordinary poor Russians.
    2) Under such terms, of course, there is an order. In fact, we have before us a classic example of state terrorism - the use of haphazard violence to intimidate its own people and hinder any form of its consolidation. It is used, of course, not against the "agent of the State Department" Navalny and "liberals", for these it is understandable the Big Boss (West) will write the authorities have a black mark, but against people who are not liberal views. Everything is understandable, sandwiched between the West and their own people, the authorities who have overcome most of the Soviet legacy simply do not have any more resources to retain power except for direct dictatorship and terror.
    3) Although this terror is understandable and reasonable (from the point of view of the authorities), it will give absolutely nothing to the authorities. Their problem is not in Penza students-anarchists, but in the impossibility of building capitalism in Russia and preserving its own power. To preserve capitalism - the West will require a transition authorities to even more "democratic" forces. And nothing can be done about it.
    1. +1
      19 February 2020 13: 40
      Quote: Odyssey
      All these "E centers" have absolutely nothing to do.

      Couch.
      But too far from reality.
      Once again, in our yard is the 24th year of the fight against Islamic terrorism.
    2. -1
      19 February 2020 15: 54
      The most commonplace is that if a structure is created, it needs to do something. All these "E centers" have absolutely nothing to do. For in Russia now there are simply no really active people opposing the government
      If they had nothing to do, then they would have been dispersed / re-profiled long ago, especially with the current policy of "optimization" of the power structures. But this is not happening, because the state does not believe that "there are simply no active people opposing the authorities."
      There are no ideals - socialism is discredited by the betrayal of the Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin, liberalism - the reality of market reforms.
      The people start to buzz not for mythical ideals, but against the bestial life, and here the situation is very far from prosperity. It is very stupid to think that "Center E", the TFR, the prosecutor's office and the courts at the same time, unanimously in unison, began, on their own initiative, to "invent cases" one after another. Moreover, you yourself noticed "under such terms, of course there is an order".
      but the impossibility of building capitalism in Russia and maintaining its own power.
      Again "take away and divide everything"? This will not happen in the future. Enough with Russia "social experiments".
    3. 0
      20 February 2020 09: 23
      Quote: Odyssey
      against "State Department agent" Navalny and "liberals", for these it is clear the Big Boss (West) will write a black mark to the authorities, but against people of non-liberal views

      The fathers of the people see a hypothetical problem in the creation of a broad coalition, where the conditional Navalny is responsible for contacts with the State Department, the conditional Udaltsov - for the street, the conditional Strelkov - for actions, hmm, direct action. Therefore, for all sorts of attempts at the collaboration of liberals with nationalists or, for example, a football party, they soaked quickly and radically back to vegetarian zero.
      1. 0
        20 February 2020 16: 34
        Therefore, for all sorts of attempts at the collaboration of liberals with nationalists or, for example, a football party, they soaked quickly and radically back to vegetarian zero.

        1. Between fans and liberals there has never been a hint of collaboration. Plus, the split between fans and shaved after two oppositions well-known in the subcultural environment put an end to any form of nationalist association.
        2. Active shaved have been under the face since the beginning of these "vegetarian" noughties. The special services' fanaticism began to spill a little later after the well-known events, but long before the liberal opposition took shape.
        3. The Zeroes were not vegetarian in any way. And certainly not from the point of view of subcultures. The turning point came in 2005-2007, not earlier. By that time, the shaven remained in homeopathic doses, and the officers either received orders from the AP or to the direct question "what kind of garbage is in the movement and from whom?" bashfully averted their eyes and called themselves "apolytes".
        1. +1
          20 February 2020 18: 41
          Quote: Engineer
          There was even a hint of collaboration between the fan and the liberals.

          Well, there have been attempts. Navalny is still recalling Russian marches. Another thing is that these are all games in the sandbox.
          Quote: Engineer
          Acting shaved have been under the face since the beginning of these "vegetarian" noughties. The special services' fanatics began to spill a little later after the well-known events, but long before the liberal opposition took shape.

          Yes, the faces have always thought better than the liberal opposition. This is not so difficult.
          Quote: Engineer
          Zero was not vegetarian in any way. And certainly not in terms of subcultures. The turning point came

          Yes you are right. The whining about the new 37th began when people began to knit with good faces. While knitting people with bad faces, the best people in the country were just for it.
          1. 0
            20 February 2020 21: 31
            Well, there have been attempts. Navalny is still recalling Russian marches.

            Yes, there were no fans there, only karlans. The same GF openly called for distance from the "Russian marches" (who would doubt it, gee) and although they had not been the flagship of their movement for a long time, no one began to argue.
            While knitting people with bad faces, the best people in the country were just for it.

            The best people of Russia are always for when you need to knit bad guys. Even if the bad guys sew completely insane game. Mr. Marcinkiewicz will confirm.
            1. +1
              20 February 2020 21: 39
              Quote: Engineer
              Yes there were no fans there, some carlans

              I didn’t take part in the movement, I don’t presume to judge who had rotted there before.
              Quote: Engineer
              The best people of Russia are always for when you need to knit bad guys

              It's hard to argue. The Russian intelligentsia is quite worthy of the Russian everything else.
              1. 0
                20 February 2020 22: 07
                I do not presume to judge who was rotten there before.

                Strange, I expected a bit more awareness of the milestones of modern Russian nationalism. Let not from the side of the participant, but from the researcher, albeit a sofa (the sofa here has no negative connotation)
                The Russian intelligentsia is quite worthy of the Russian everything else.

                The Russian intelligentsia as a certain category of carriers of certain values ​​and views does not exist. She can be blamed for doing nothing (but only partially), but this marker is not unique to her.
                I was always amazed at the expectations that this intelligentsia supposedly had to justify, especially in the social aspect. At that time, when for decades its main task was to survive corny.
                1. +1
                  20 February 2020 22: 12
                  Quote: Engineer
                  expected a bit more awareness of the milestones of modern Russian nationalism

                  Not really penetrated. Maybe in vain, we'll see.
                  Quote: Engineer
                  a time when for decades its main task was to survive corny.

                  It would be useful for survival to support one of his enemies who is weaker, against one who is stronger. True, in the case of Russia, which we lost, it was this policy that sucks ended.
                  1. 0
                    20 February 2020 22: 21
                    It would be useful for survival to support one of his enemies who is weaker, against one who is stronger. True, in the case of Russia, which we lost, it was this policy that sucks ended.

                    And why should it end better now?
                    a broad coalition, where the conditional Navalny is responsible for contacts with the State Department, the conditional Udaltsov - for the street, the conditional Strelkov - for shares, hmm, direct action.

                    The chimera, however absurd, is beyond farce. Saving your presence.
                    1. +1
                      21 February 2020 07: 20
                      Quote: Engineer
                      And why should it end better now?

                      It should not and will not end. Because the Russian intelligentsia is completely devoid of realism. A simple question - What will we do during the civil war? - I have only heard from Strelkova.
                      Another thing is that I do not believe in the possibility of a new civil war in Russia. There is no civil war in Turkmenistan.
                      Quote: Engineer
                      The chimera, however absurd, is beyond farce.

                      Quote: Octopus
                      Hypothetical problem fathers of the people see in building

                      Why was Udaltsov tied up there? Seems to be preparing a revolution for money German Georgian General Staff? It reminded me personally of the Azerbaijani (!) Spy Beria. Maybe a farce, but I would not think that my fathers are so joking. I fully admit that they really live in such a world.
                      1. 0
                        21 February 2020 08: 31
                        Because the Russian intelligentsia is completely devoid of realism.

                        You judge on tv
                        The Russian intelligentsia is extremely real.
                        Any person dissatisfied with what is happening has four models of behavior that are implemented with varying success, including the intelligentsia.
                        Elitist
                        Subcultural
                        Conformist
                        Individual migration (migration both external and internal)
                        ANY of these models is real and effective. And any completely excludes the struggle in any form.
                        I only heard from Strelkova so far

                        Do you believe that there are former FSB colonels?
                        You mentioned this freak Udaltsov, the bastard Girkin and just no Navalny. As for me, this is excellent evidence that our intelligentsia reasoned sensibly, it is not carried on a carrot and uses 4 models above. Correctly done, in general.
                      2. +1
                        21 February 2020 08: 46
                        Quote: Engineer
                        any completely excludes the struggle in any form.

                        )))
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Do you believe that there are former FSB colonels?

                        )))
                        I believe that the devil with horns can ask the right questions from time to time.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        You mentioned this freak Udaltsov, the bastard Girkin and just no Navalny

                        )))
                        New Rome - new Cato.
                      3. 0
                        21 February 2020 09: 22
                        New Rome - new Cato.

                        Of course I understand that
                        I have no Hindenburgs for you

                        Third-rate Cato Rome to match. But Caesar is, though in miniature, but also bald.
                        One of the problems of our Rome is that even normal ones with Theodorich are not ready for it.
                        Nevertheless, if the system impasse does not mean that the impasse exists at the individual level. 4 outputs described above are always there. Therefore, forward to the construction of their individual, own Rome, even on 6 hundred parts. At least near Kursk, at least in Ontario. And no reflection on the fate and qualities of the Russian intelligentsia.
                        Udaltsov-fak, Girkin-Butyrku, Sisyanu-bar. Microceesar has cookies, but in his pocket.
                      4. +1
                        21 February 2020 11: 39
                        Quote: Engineer
                        But Caesar is, though in miniature, but also bald.

                        Medvedev - Octavian)))
                        Quote: Engineer
                        ready normal with Theodorich on him there.

                        Wait and see. If we survive.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Therefore, forward to the construction of their individual, own Rome, even on 6 hundred parts. At least near Kursk, at least in Ontario. And no reflection on the fate and qualities of the Russian intelligentsia.

                        If it fell into an empire to be born,
                        Better to live in another empire. Like Brodsky.
  16. -6
    19 February 2020 13: 43
    Life terms - this would be right for those who wanted to start another civil war on the territory of our country.
    1. +10
      19 February 2020 13: 56
      Life terms - this would be right for those who want to start another civil war on the territory of our country.
      Are you out of your mind? The whole thing is sewn with white thread, 8 people - a change of power in Russia ?! Why, then, were they shooting the White House from tanks, 8 students would be hired and that’s all! At first they wanted to apply them to another matter; it didn’t work out and either let go and part with epaulettes, or sew a new one.
      1. -7
        19 February 2020 14: 32
        Quote: MoJloT
        The whole thing is sewn with white thread, 8 people - a change of power in Russia ?!

        And here again lies ...
        I do not know. Yours, or those you are listening to / reading ...

        But none of them was tried for "change of power".
        All went under the main article "creation of a terrorist community and participation in it.

        And here you can’t speculate on the topic “8 people are not enough for terrorism” and “they are just children, the business is sewn with white thread”
        1. +4
          19 February 2020 14: 39
          But none of them was tried for "change of power".
          The pepper is clear, it’s as if the accuser was not perverted, to all this farce, tragicomedy would be added. But they tried! The fact that I read in open sources in the case. Well, there is no issue with an apology, the person in uniform is always right, and when not right, see above.
          1. +2
            19 February 2020 14: 55
            Quote: MoJloT
            The pepper is clear, as if the accuser were not perverting

            No matter how the propagandists were perverted, they did not open a case under article 278.
            And contrary to tons of lies, they didn’t try to do it.

            And so, for the future. Propaganda built on lies has only one consequence. They cease to believe such
            1. +2
              19 February 2020 14: 59
              the case under article 278 was not opened.
              Failed.
              Propaganda built on lies has only one consequence. They cease to believe such
              Here, we have already understood for so much time, and no one believes the authorities.
              1. 0
                19 February 2020 15: 23
                Quote: MoJloT
                Failed.

                And you can judge others "for thoughts"?
                And the funny thing is that these thoughts are not real, but that exist only in your imagination.

                Quote: MoJloT
                Here, we have already understood for so much time, and no one believes the authorities.

                Yeah. But they choose Putin 8)))))))))))))))
                Something is wrong in your conservatory ... Maybe you should try to lie less?
                1. +1
                  19 February 2020 15: 43
                  Yeah. But they choose Putin 8))))))))))))))) Something is wrong in your conservatory ...
                  Are you serious now? I read comments here, including yours, I kind of started for health, but here the further you get more firewood.
                  1. -5
                    19 February 2020 16: 18
                    Quote: KBaHT_BpeMeHu
                    Are you serious now?

                    And now you say no?

                    When lies are the second name of the "opposition", who else to choose?

                    Here he is hysterical about "146%" .... And I know perfectly well that all these figures have nothing to do with the counting of votes. In our country, according to the law, they count exclusively on paper with a seal. There is no trust in electronics.

                    And what do you think, next time I believe this?
                    Will I vote for those for whom he promotes?

                    How can I relate to those who believe that to defeat the government you just have to lie more than it?
                2. 0
                  20 February 2020 09: 33
                  Quote: Spade
                  But they choose Putin 8)))))))))))))))

                  Absolutely.


                  If not Putin, then who? And if nobody, then nefig indulge.
                  1. +1
                    20 February 2020 10: 02
                    Quote: Octopus
                    If not Putin, then who?

                    Yes, anyone.
                    In addition to lying.
                    1. 0
                      20 February 2020 11: 21
                      Quote: Spade
                      Yes anyone

                      Ella Alexandrovna, log in.
                      1. +3
                        20 February 2020 11: 35
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Ella Alexandrovna, log in.

                        N-yes .... Wretched ....
                        But for the "opposition" with support at the level of statistical error, that's it.
    2. -2
      19 February 2020 14: 10
      Where there is an opportunity to vote and choose, with confidence in honest voting results and with the confidence that after 4-6 years I can vote and choose again (well, I’ve made a mistake, I will correct it), in critical cases before, civil wars do not arise there.
      1. +5
        19 February 2020 14: 20
        Was there no civil war in the USA?
        1. +2
          19 February 2020 14: 34
          Quote: Operator
          Was there no civil war in the USA?

          laughing
          ".... no, it's completely different ..." (c)
        2. -1
          19 February 2020 14: 48
          As such, according to our modern concepts, there was no civil war in the United States. There was an attempt by the southern states of the union - the commonwealth (states) to create for themselves "more of their" autonomy and independence (they are called confederates) from the northern ones, who wanted to extend their centralized power over all states. The abolition of slavery is not a cause of war, but a verbal husk for modern elementary school students.
          Interestingly, adults do not have anology with the first and second Chechen wars?
  17. +5
    19 February 2020 13: 57
    I didn’t understand something about confessions under torture, why didn’t anyone investigate any complaints about the use of force against the suspects in order to obtain information.

    no, of course I understand that the colleagues would investigate those who tortured, and there would be no landings, but they could have pretended to do so - however, then the deadline would not have been soldered to the suspect ....

    so who are these airsoft gunners, real extremists, or guys tortured in the dungeons of the FSB?
    1. +7
      19 February 2020 14: 06
      so who are these airsoft gunners, real extremists, or guys tortured in the dungeons of the FSB?
      We got into the millstones of law enforcement officers, well, they were put up just in case. Think for yourself, do not drink, do not smoke, do not drink rubbish, go in for sports, collect things for the homeless, run around with automatics, are fond of reading ... Would you let those go? If they set fire to anything tomorrow? You’ll stay without shoulder straps.
  18. +3
    19 February 2020 14: 11
    Nicholas II, soft sentences, and politics with the revolutionaries, was rather soft, as it did not help.
    1. +4
      19 February 2020 14: 20
      Nicholas II, soft sentences, and politics with the revolutionaries, was rather soft, as it did not help.
      Putin is far from being an emperor, and these jerks are not revolutionaries, so what does this have to do with it?
    2. +1
      19 February 2020 14: 49
      Quote: ALSur
      Nicholas II, soft sentences, and politics with the revolutionaries, was rather soft, as it did not help.

      Soft, yes. Especially at nine hundred and fifth - nine hundred and seventh. With such a soft hemp rope without a trial and even softer rods just because I got caught.
  19. +2
    19 February 2020 14: 38
    * Your hard work will not be lost
    A flame will ignite from a spark *
    The poet wrote in the 19th century .. In Russia, the national fun to see walking on a rake
    1. +1
      19 February 2020 15: 06
      Quote: Crystal of Truth
      The poet wrote

      There was such a poet, Balmont Konstantin Dmitrievich, who also wrote a lot of things. Only after the revolution, for some reason, fled to France.
      1. +2
        19 February 2020 20: 32
        Greetings, I wanted to ask, but you don’t know what is harder than the crystal of truth or the quantum of time? wassat laughing
        1. +1
          19 February 2020 20: 49
          Quote: Tank jacket
          You don’t know that the crystal of truth or the quantum of time is harder

          In order for the sword to be suitable for use in battle, it must be not only solid, but also flexible.
          1. +1
            19 February 2020 20: 51
            Thank you very much for the recommendations. wink
    2. +6
      19 February 2020 15: 17
      Yeah, the elite cannot moderate their appetites, but again the people are to blame.
    3. 0
      24 February 2020 14: 59

      Crystal of Truth (T.V.) February 19, 2020 14:38

      In Russia, the national fun to see walking on a rake

      But they amuse themselves with this only in your homeland, they jump and jump
      lol lol
  20. +11
    19 February 2020 14: 43
    Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value.

    Well, here we are, the Hitler attack aircraft also burned this book with pleasure. I’m never a communist, but burning literature is already a symptom. request
    1. +2
      19 February 2020 15: 13
      Quote: Sea Cat
      but burning literature is already a symptom.

      It was another propaganda stuffing.
      All that the court decided was to comply with one of the provisions of Article 82 of the Code of Criminal Procedure.
      After all, no one is going to keep material evidence forever. And if they were going to, the same propagandists would have screamed about the "cut".
    2. 0
      20 February 2020 00: 04
      More than Hitler’s stormtroopers you couldn’t attach to the usual practice of destroying material evidence of no value by court order? By the way, they destroyed not only books, but also weapons and other shit seized during the investigation. am
      1. +1
        20 February 2020 00: 11
        Well, you know, it’s painful in this case just attack aircraft and begs. request
        1. -1
          20 February 2020 00: 17
          As I understand it, you suffer greatly from the destruction of such a rare publication? So go to the bookstore, or rather to the library. There you will find something similar from the decommissioned, but not yet destroyed. laughing
          1. +3
            20 February 2020 00: 28
            You don't understand correctly, absolutely no mental anguish. Comrade I have not read Marx and am not going to read it. I can't go to the library on your advice, there is now some kind of Armenian supermarket in it, so with books only the network helps out. Just after reading the line about the court decision, I immediately remembered the magnificent film "Ordinary Fascism", did you not watch it? When the country begins to introduce ban after ban, then it is not so far to public book burning. And how do you feel, "everything is fine, beautiful marquise"?
            1. +4
              20 February 2020 01: 41
              Kostya, in Russia, probably, there will soon be no people who have not been "incriminated", have not been "thrown" or have not been "knocked out" of something. And yes, burning books is still a bell. I have not heard that Capital was banned, just as I have not seen a single web resource blocked for the ability to freely download Mein Kampf. We are frightened by 1937, but at the same time, the greatest fears are caused by the "immersion" of our country in a foreign 1933. “There” there was also a “leader of the nation”, persecution and a bunch of problems, the root of which was sought in anyone, but not in ourselves. Yes, and books were also burned.
              1. +2
                20 February 2020 01: 49
                That's right, Alexey, that's what we're talking about. But the poor need a "strong hand" to drive any dissent under the tombstone. And there is nothing to say about our current "strong hand", this hand is only worried about that, so that it does not interfere with further rowing what comes under it. And the prospects are the worst, brother.
                1. +3
                  20 February 2020 02: 14
                  Total control, hypertrophied censorship and "police" terror are "beacons" of the final stage of any tyranny. Further - either its "fall", or shame, slavery and extermination.
  21. +2
    19 February 2020 14: 49
    Quote: L-39NG
    in our modern concepts, the American Civil War was not

    On ours - was.
  22. +1
    19 February 2020 14: 49
    According to the verdict of the Volga Regional Military Court, the following were sentenced: Pchelintsev - to 18 years in prison, Shakursky - to 16, Chernov - to 14, Ivankin - to 13, Kulkov - to 10, Kuksov - to 9, Sangynbaev - to 6.

  23. +12
    19 February 2020 15: 00
    Thinking people have long understood how such things are fabricated. Remember Kvachkova, the recent case of Golunov and thousands of similar cases.
    1. +4
      19 February 2020 15: 01
      Remember Kvachkova, the recent case of Golunov and thousands of similar cases.
      Sad but true.
    2. -5
      19 February 2020 15: 15
      When you are properly dressed in the gateway, you run the police, they’ll find you, they’ll put you in prison, you’re satisfied, but someone will start, but the business is fabricated, they still know who they are, who knows?
      1. +10
        19 February 2020 17: 46
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        When you are properly dressed in the gateway, you run the police, they’ll find you, they’ll put you in prison, you’re satisfied, but someone will start, but the business is fabricated, they still know who they are, who knows?

        life example ... I was already retired. 4 Narika killed a taxi driver at 6 in the morning ... I was there, interrupted. Result: a concussion in one, a broken face in the blood of another. I have a broken rib ... the taxi driver survived , 2 weeks of hospitalization and then rehabilitation ... the cops took everything ... testimony, points ... a week later the apologizing opera apologized, they said that they could not initiate UD, the prosecutors put pressure, the pictures from the traumatology were gone, the doctor refused. tale ... a daddy of one narik turned out to be tied up with the prosecutor's office ... then the truth, the flippers were wrapped from an overdose. but this is another story (c).
  24. -1
    19 February 2020 15: 02
    Too softly, in the States these "children" would be given several life sentences.
  25. 0
    19 February 2020 15: 21
    In the end, the author ruined everything, some kind of clumsy attempt to justify, they say, external factors are to blame - The deepest social polarization, progressive poverty, corruption, isolation of government representatives from the people, as if somewhere on Earth this is not, despite the fact that this organization included absolutely prosperous, previously not convicted, young people - students, workers, even an entrepreneur - this is also very significant.
  26. +1
    19 February 2020 16: 06
    Of course they are not children. And ignorance of the laws and even history does not absolve them of guilt. Today I watched on TV, where they discussed Kerch children-terrorists. Then we gradually went down to schools. And everywhere there is impenetrable aggression. Teachers beat children, children beat teachers. And everywhere murmur from the stands "Plant, plant. Do not wait for spring." Only the deputy of the State Duma hinted that our aggression slope exceeded Europe, North America, when a disapproving noise arose in the hall. This is how we get kvass.
  27. +6
    19 February 2020 16: 12
    Well, that’s it. Kerdyk airsoft. But yesterday he was considered as a means of pre-combat training of youth. Now only sofa troops. Something to the family has breathed. The ban on karate ...
  28. +4
    19 February 2020 16: 38
    Quote: KBaHT_BpeMeHu
    Nicholas II, soft sentences, and politics with the revolutionaries, was rather soft, as it did not help.
    Putin is far from being an emperor, and these jerks are not revolutionaries, so what does this have to do with it?

    And what changes the name of the post: the emperor or president, in any case, this is the supreme power that they are encroaching on. I did not understand this thesis at all. And about revolutionaries not those, in RI there were also many students who for some time did not pose a big threat to the state, but later became grave diggers of the empire. Lenin is a student, then a petty official. Stalin is generally a seminarian. First come soft and fluffy, then come tougher if there is an element of impunity, and at some point, the process may become irreversible. In Ukraine, what it started with seems to be from football fans, for example.
  29. +6
    19 February 2020 16: 59
    It is difficult to determine the "guilt" of the members of this group remotely: there are officially registered carbines and pistols (how many such weapons do hunters and athletes have, but they are not terrorists), are there fingerprints on the grenades? - not known. found drugs - and found traces of their use in the body? not known. "Network" throughout the country (Moscow, St. Petersburg) - where are those arrested in these cities (the case has been officially solved)? Not everything that is obvious at first glance is true.
  30. +6
    19 February 2020 17: 01
    Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value. Together with Capital, the GRU special forces textbook and several anarchist brochures also confiscated during the searches were “sentenced” to burning.
    .... Good advertising, given works ... smile Is the 37th year coming back ..? They say that they were falsified about the processes of that period .. During the searches then they found something similar: literature and weapons .. I would like to read the verdict and get acquainted with the findings of the court, on the basis of which he made a decision ... It is possible that they are objective .. Yes, and it does not seem that the complaint is based only on the arguments that violence was used against members of the group ... The role of Igor Shishkin, whose case was examined in a special order, was received and received 3,5 years in a general regime colony. And who will probably marry under amnesty or for good behavior, before the appointed time ... The only thing that surprises: a wide range of terrorists, 8 people ... who wanted to carry out such a large-scale action: the Ukrainian and Syrian scenario, a popular revolution ... Apparently, for having such large-scale actions, they had very generous sponsors? Are their names indicated in the sentence? ....
    1. +6
      19 February 2020 17: 50
      Quote: parusnik
      An interesting role is played by Igor Shishkin, whose case was examined in a special order, and received 3,5 years in a general regime colony. And who will probably marry under an amnesty or for good behavior, ahead of schedule

      Much more interesting is Yegor Zorin, whose denunciation became the reason for starting the "case". He was "taken" with drugs on his pocket, he wrote that he was a "terrorist". Everyone applauded and now he is not condemned either for being a "terrorist" or for being a "drug dealer." laughing
      In general, the algorithm for creating such cases is standard -: ordering - working out a suitable material (if the order is not for a specific person) - checking their roof, if it is not there - introducing a provocateur who "activates the cell", or taking one person who is tortured or planted with drugs - denunciation - disclosure of "terrorists, extremists".
      True, there are punctures, here in the Golunov case, they pierced at the inspection of the roof. He turned out to be a democratic journalist, and even a Moscow one. Its roof was higher than the generals who ordered it. However, they still escaped with a slight consternation, as a result, the performers -the policemen who threw drugs, etc., suffered.
      1. 0
        19 February 2020 18: 06
        Much more interesting is Yegor Zorin, whose denunciation became the reason for starting the "case". He was "taken" with drugs on his pocket, he wrote that he was a "terrorist". Everyone applauded and now he is not condemned either for the fact that he is a "terrorist" or for the fact that he is a "drug dealer." Well, the beauty is laughing
        Article 205 of the Criminal Code has everything.
        1. +2
          19 February 2020 21: 43
          Quote: Prjanik
          Article 205 of the Criminal Code has everything.

          Section 205 states that a person is exempted from liability if the actions of that person do not contain a different corpus delicti. There, a citizen was taken for allegedly found drugs from him.
          1. 0
            19 February 2020 22: 22
            Section 205 states that a person is exempted from liability if the actions of that person do not contain a different corpus delicti. There, a citizen was taken for allegedly found drugs from him.
            I entered into a deal with the investigation, under article 228 they gave 3 years probation.
            1. +4
              19 February 2020 22: 40
              Quote: Prjanik
              I entered into a deal with the investigation, under article 228 they gave 3 years probation.

              I write about this, the citizen was accused of possession of drugs, he wrote in response that he was a terrorist. Now she walks freely and gives testimony as a witness laughing
              An oil painting - a man is being detained for drugs, and he is so, yes I am also a terrorist! Him in response, well, you're a honey, here's a conditional))
              Imagine a picture - a drug dealer thinks like I should not sit down. Eureka !! I confess that I am a terrorist and was preparing to overthrow the government. Then everything will be all right.
              The bottom line is that you can not trust the falsification of cases to complete idiots. The trouble is that there are no others.
              1. 0
                19 February 2020 23: 32
                I write about this, the citizen was accused of possession of drugs, he wrote in response that he was a terrorist. Now she walks freely and gives testimony as a witness laughing
                An oil painting - a man is being detained for drugs, and he is so, yes I am also a terrorist! Him in response, well, you're a honey, here's a conditional))
                Imagine a picture - a drug dealer thinks like I should not sit down. Eureka !! I confess that I am a terrorist and was preparing to overthrow the government. Then everything will be all right.
                The bottom line is that you can not trust the falsification of cases to complete idiots. The trouble is that there are no others.
                And could not he "graze" ahead of time, and then take for drugs? According to your logic, a drug addict was accepted and from his acquaintances they began to unleash a case about terrorist cells, from several cities, and even Belarus, connected in some kind of "Network". The suspects were planted with drugs, weapons, components for explosive devices, anarchist literature, materials with their training and the organization "Network", and under torture they forced confessions from them?
                Is it all too confused and what's the point, just to raise the statistics of disclosure?
                1. +3
                  20 February 2020 04: 06
                  Quote: Prjanik
                  And could not he "graze" ahead of time, and then take him for drugs?

                  If a person is taken for drugs, and then he comes upright, that he is a terrorist and revolutionary, then this means only one thing - they made him an offer that he could not refuse.
                  If this is an ordinary petty drug dealer, then it would never occur to anyone to be interested in him — are you not a terrorist for an hour? Why, this is an ordinary criminal. But it would never occur to him to hang on himself that in addition he was also a terrorist and was preparing to overthrow the government.
                  If a person is a real revolutionary, and even ready to use terrorist methods, then the last thing that he will do is to wear / dabble with drugs. And besides (suppose he is crazy and for some reason carries drugs), why should he incriminate himself and take on terrorism yourself? He then took a petty criminal.
                  Quote: Prjanik
                  According to your logic, a drug addict was accepted and from his acquaintances they began to unleash a case about terrorist cells, from several cities, and even Belarus, connected in some kind of "Network".

                  No, everything is simpler. If there is an order, they first look for a suitable group (and given the "love of the people" to our reformers, it is very easy to do this), then if they are completely herbivores they launch a provocateur there who creates texture (as, for example, in the case of "new greatness" ), but if the whole airsoft players, and even with legal weapons, then this is not necessary. They take one of them, they plant drugs (and if they have information that one of them is dabbling in drugs, then they don’t need to plant them), they say either you will fly away on an especially large size, or let's cooperate, write that you are a terrorist and prepared state . coup, but do not worry, we otmazhm - you will not sit. Further untwist the case.
                  Quote: Prjanik
                  Is it all too confused and what's the point, just to raise the statistics of disclosure?

                  No, disclosure statistics are petty police affairs. They have nothing to do with it. What disclosure, if there is no crime. And the FSB centers are doing this, not the police.
                  Here, from below, the need to come up with a case to justify the fact of their existence and career advancement, and from above, the social order for tightening the screws in the conditions of the socio-economic crisis. Hence a whole series of such cases lately.
                  1. +1
                    20 February 2020 06: 51
                    Quote: Odyssey
                    If a person is a real revolutionary, and even ready to use terrorist methods, then the last thing that he will do is to wear / dabble with drugs.

                    Is there a source of information?
                  2. +2
                    20 February 2020 14: 05
                    No, everything is simpler. If there is an order, they first look for a suitable group (and given the "love of the people" to our reformers, it is very easy to do this), then if they are completely herbivores they launch a provocateur there who creates texture (as, for example, in the case of "new greatness" ), but if the whole airsoft players, and even with legal weapons, then this is not necessary. They take one of them, they plant drugs (and if they have information that one of them is dabbling in drugs, then they don’t need to plant them), they say either you will fly away on an especially large size, or let's cooperate, write that you are a terrorist and prepared state . coup, but do not worry, we otmazhm - you will not sit. Further untwist the case.
                    Is it possible. But it could be different: the special services received the information that there are such drug addicts that they had read different things on the Internet, and decided to organize themselves in a group of revolutionaries, but this contingent is really enough on the Internet. And maybe someone even carries out targeted work on the network to create anarchist groups of young scumbags-sociopaths. And all is well, but they acquired real weapons and began to assemble improvised explosive devices, well, like a shkolota from Kerch the other day. And then it’s a matter of technology - they decided to take it, they took one, it seems, as just for drugs, so that others would not twitch, there he accepted the offer to hand over and pay off. And so that everything would be in accordance with the law, like he himself would come with a sincere recognition, then we will not be incriminated with article 205 either and we will get off conditionally under article 228.
                    Further, motives do not convince me.
                    Here, from below, the need to come up with a case to justify the fact of its existence and promotion
                    Ok, but do we have enough terrorism in the Caucasus and among the Central Asians, or are they also substituting everyone? But if the tip is given by foreign intelligence services, it turns out all the intelligence agencies of the world are hiding each other? And if someone so wanted to advance in the service, wouldn’t it be safer not to invent it all, but to bring under terrorism some thread of stabbing in a public place, as in other countries.
                    top social order for tightening the nut in a socio-economic crisis.
                    I would understand this if the case went on in the state media and became the basis for the adoption of some prohibitive and restrictive measures. But. There was not much publicity, since the trial was not even held in Moscow, but in Penza, and the resonance caused widespread dissemination in the opposition media. Then, logically, what is the order of the opposition? There are acquaintances that they used to run like they used to run through the woods to laser tags and with airsoft drives and pneumatics through the forests.
                    1. +1
                      22 February 2020 03: 34
                      Quote: Prjanik
                      But it could be different: the special services received the information that there are such drug addicts that they had read different things on the Internet, and decided to organize themselves in a group of revolutionaries, but this contingent is really enough on the Internet.

                      Here, read the investigation of Medusa, it is generally good to go under your version. (although, of course, you need to check the texture, and keep in mind that liberals strongly dislike anarchists)
                      https://meduza.io/feature/2020/02/21/poshli-chetvero-v-les-a-vyshli-tolko-dvoe
                      According to this investigation, just emerges a group of small drug dealers who considered themselves anarchists. Zorin was led precisely for drugs, and then FSB's work which made a group of small dealers (with possible murder) of revolutionaries and even terrorists.
                    2. 0
                      22 February 2020 04: 22
                      Quote: Prjanik
                      And if someone so wanted to advance in the service, wouldn’t it be safer not to invent it all, but to bring under terrorism some thread of stabbing in a public place, as in other countries.

                      If you are talking about single attacks with knives, then there is no more reliable.
                      1) It’s much harder to influence a loner - you won’t tell him that you will hand over the others, and there will be nothing for you.
                      2) It is more profitable to reveal a group with intent, rather than a loner who is most often a psycho.
                      3) And most importantly, those who come up with business categorically do not want to deal with already completed events and do not want to qualify them as a terrorist attack. After all, this means that they all blinked. The essence is to say that we all prevented. That is, there is no act, but our work is.
                      Quote: Prjanik
                      . But. There was not much publicity, since the trial was not even held in Moscow, but in Penza, and the resonance caused widespread dissemination in the opposition media. Then, logically, what is the order of the opposition?

                      The order from above goes to the verdict of the court, and not to inventing cases. This is just the initiative from below. And they come not only from the fact that the FSB officers are such bad radishes, but from the fact that real revolutionaries simply no. If there were real socialist revolutionaries, a la Eser, professing the methods of individual punishment of representatives of the oligarchic regime, all the FSB would deal with them only and representatives of the regime would imprison them with great pleasure with all the texture and without any torture. As for fame, then she appeared after the verdict. They were given a lot more than the murderers (I don’t speak at all about the government officials and their relatives receiving a conditional for the murder). Moreover, if the case is clean, then television would be connected to create an atmosphere of fear, but in case of fictitious it’s not necessary. Just that now they have connected television is an attempt to save the situation and intercept the agenda.
                      Quote: Prjanik
                      There are acquaintances that they used to run like they used to run through the woods to laser tags and with airsoft drives and pneumatics through the forests.

                      The very meaning of the concept of terrorism (by the way, the concept of extremely vague and mythologized) is in the persecution / murder of undefined groups of civilians .. The "message" of the authorities in this matter is to do your everyday things, even plump, even steal, but do not try to collectively oppose the policy of power and engage in uncoordinated political activity. Until your friends do it, they
                      they can even drive around in tanks, spit on everyone.
  31. +2
    19 February 2020 19: 08
    Not going to write, not a resident of Russia! But, I read a lot of comments and could not resist - I already vomited! I absolutely have no reverence for any organs of GB, they have a stigma in fluff, but .... There is a massive mournful howl about the "bloody gebne", there is a substitution of concepts, manipulation of facts, pulling by the ears, etc. Massively minus those who speak with alarm about the danger of terrorism!
    I understand, I write in general phrases, but there is no way to parse each post. The message is very clearly traced - to blame for everything there, on top! Resident evil, no less. I do not idealize any power. Yes, thieves must sit! Yes, embezzlers must sit! Yes, majors must sit for their deeds!
    But, tell me, what the hell is this justifying a group of dodgers who have planned evil ???? Snotty tales about setups, orders, excessive violence, young elves are immediately used ... Any slippery situation, which the sea is, is extrapolated, and a conclusion is made: everything the same ...... But, you know what's the worst? When, God forbid, the next Budennovsk, Beslan, Volgodonsk, Nor-Ost break out - the same compassionate anti-geobeibists begin to moan about the rotten government, which is unable or unwilling to protect its people from terror! God forbid you or your family to be in the epicenter of the explosion !!!
    SAID EVERYTHING. The site is rotten to the ground. IMHO. I apologize to the normal ones for the excessive emotionality ........ Cons of FIGS ....
    1. +3
      19 February 2020 20: 54
      Quote: AK pacifist
      There is a massive mournful howl about the "bloody gebn", there is a substitution of concepts, manipulation of facts, pulling by the ears, etc. Massively minus those who speak with alarm about the danger of terrorism!

      HA recalls how at the end of the 19th - the beginning of the 20th centuries, the same "smart" applauded other "children". But then most of them regretted it greatly.
    2. +1
      20 February 2020 10: 35
      Quote: AK pacifist
      But, tell me, how the hell does this justify the group of tricks that plot the evil?

      And they just conceived the evil? And the landing of the innocent is a fight against terrorism or, God forbid, its propaganda?

      By the way, about the terrorist attack in St. Petersburg. Do you even know what remarkable evidence the faces brought to court in this case? Whom and what did they blame?
  32. -2
    19 February 2020 19: 18
    I have no idea if they are guilty of what they were accused of or not. I did not delve into. But if you are guilty, then it’s not just that there should be long sentences, but the death penalty
  33. +2
    19 February 2020 21: 52
    After reading the comments that poor children were once again framed by the "bloody regime", one immediately recalls the discussion by the kind intelligentsia of the 19th century about the affairs of terrorists - Narodnaya Volya members in Ingushetia (the case of Vera Zasulich, 1878).
    1. -1
      21 February 2020 01: 19
      You see, in those days in decent society it was believed that corporal punishment degraded human dignity. This is precisely what caused the Zasulich act, which from the moral point of view cannot be justified. However, the jury decided otherwise. I will remind you how it all began. And before answering me, imagine your thoughts and desires towards the offender if you were in the place of Bogolyubov, which will be discussed below:

      "In the summer of 1877, the newspaper" Golos "published a report about the punishment of populist Bogolyubov with rods, who was sentenced to hard labor for participating in a youth demonstration on December 6, 1876 on the square of the Kazan Cathedral in St. Petersburg. The flogging was carried out by order of the mayor of St. Petersburg Trepov Bogolyubov refused to take off his hat. Corporal punishment at that time was prohibited by law, the shameful execution caused a riot among the prisoners and received wide publicity in the press. "
      1. 0
        1 March 2020 18: 56
        Shot Zasulich and not Bogolyubov, in today's language - decided to promote on someone else's problem. It’s not good to shoot with rods, but shooting at a person for this is also not the best way.
  34. -4
    19 February 2020 22: 33
    Who will be interested, in 2016, Ukrainian saboteurs were received in Sevastopol. The security forces published photos and videos of the detention and searches.
    All weapons and grenades (with peas) were airsoft.
    Who cares, here is a link to one of the revelations of this particular detention.
    Although the accused were soldered on real terms in a closed court session.

    https://informnapalm.org/29429-strajkbolnoe-oruzhie-ukrainskih-diversantov-ocherednoe-shou-fsb-rf/amp/
    1. +1
      19 February 2020 22: 41
      Dear, isn't it funny yourself? Info taken from the off-site of this very "napalm". As an amateur, I recommend one more site - "Russian Jew". The ultimate truth)))))
      The InformNapalm community was created in February - March 2014 as an attempt to break through the information blockade and to demonstrate evidence of Russian aggression, which at the initial stage disguised itself as “Crimean self-defense” and intra-Ukrainian civil confrontation. The Ukrainian patriots, seeing the confusion of the official structures, took on the function of collecting evidence and informing the general world community in several languages ​​about the full-scale military intervention of the Russian Federation in Crimea.
      1. -2
        19 February 2020 22: 46
        I inserted the first link I got.
        I just wrote, here is one of the revelations of this detention.
        You can google yourself from more reliable sources.
  35. -1
    19 February 2020 22: 54
    ,, Journalist Yulia Vityazeva, in her Telegram channel, drew the attention of subscribers to the actions of one of the prisoners in the case of the organization "Network" * Arman Sagynbaev. She showed a screenshot of the story of one of the victims of the terrorist, who claims that she was deliberately infected with HIV. Vityazeva naively asked why the defenders of political prisoners were silent.

    ,, The screenshot attached to the post was taken by Yulia Vityazeva from the site Arman.people.ru.net, where the victims of Sagynbaev told their stories. One of them is Zlata. She was only 14 when her relationship with Arman Sagynbaev began. The girl in her statement admits that she is not yet able to tell in detail what exactly happened. However, she cannot be silent, because sooner or later the man who infected her with HIV will leave. Zlata fears that the political prisoner will use the attitude towards him as a victim of the system, "seduce the girls and continue to mock them."
    1. +2
      20 February 2020 10: 42
      Cexterrorist!
      Lord, what clowns have come to.
  36. 0
    20 February 2020 07: 27
    Have you tried kitty explosives? Hell, I poisoned cockroaches and Colorado beetles, now they’ll put me in jail too. I'm going underground!
    1. +1
      20 February 2020 08: 49
      ,, Have you tried kitty explosives? Hell, I poisoned cockroaches and Colorado beetles, now they’ll put me in jail too. Going underground! ,,

      Do not worry! If you sit down, you will leave earlier! laughing
  37. +1
    20 February 2020 14: 46
    So far, the authorities have made the circumstances of the "Network" case look as dull and incomprehensible as possible. They cling to drugs, and go not to a drug scheme, nope, but as much as political terrorists! - it really looks ridiculous, as I went for mushrooms with a basket, and returned from winter fishing. Therefore, at the moment it is fair to conclude that this is a wild bourgeois fright, akin to the same as in the Kvachkov case, where there were tourist rugs from which someone was aiming at Chubais. As the saying goes, "all the bourgeois army" ..
    1. 0
      20 February 2020 15: 24
      ,, The reason for initiating the case was the confession of a student at the Penza Pedagogical Institute, Yegor Zorin, who, as Kommersant wrote, was detained with drugs shortly before. He testified about creating a terrorist community. Later, the criminal case against Zorin was terminated. ,,

      The boy did not want to sit in prison and handed over accomplices. The usual thing.
  38. 0
    20 February 2020 17: 13
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    You crow here.

    Without even thinking about the topic of crowing. And the topic is simple. The authorities are afraid! Therefore, such a long time. And he is afraid because he feels guilty about himself. Knows that it was necessary to work for the good of the people, and not for the good of a separate handful of "people"

    I hope all the same that you blurted out like this without thinking ...
    According to your "logic", then you should give a maximum of five for an ordinary murder (intentional, for example).
    And no 25 years / life / VMN, otherwise the potential killers will think that the authorities are afraid of them.
  39. +1
    21 February 2020 00: 48
    In any decent justice system, confessions from defendants and testimonies obtained using illegal methods are automatically excluded from the evidence base. And if we include all the owners of weapons, regularly shooting ranges and shooting ranges and athletes, as potential terrorists, then we can reveal the existence of an underground organization of many hundreds of thousands of people.
    1. 0
      21 February 2020 10: 43
      ,, Secret CIA prisons are classified institutions outside the United States, where, according to the US authorities, terror suspects were held. Information about these classified places (later called “CIA secret prisons”) was published by human rights organizations and the world press. And starting on November 2, 2005, this information appeared in the American press (The Washington Post).

      In 2006, US President George W. Bush formally recognized the existence of these places. In his speech on this subject, he stated that these establishments were necessary for safety requirements and that only especially dangerous persons suspected of terrorism were held there.

      Since March 2002, the so-called “extended interrogation technique” has been used at secret bases in Europe and Asia, which quite officially permits the use of a number of types of torture against a prisoner. Within the framework of this “technique”, the interrogated are intimidated, beaten, forced to stand still for up to forty hours, deprived of sleep for up to 180 hours, left naked in cold chambers, stunned with loud music, imitate drowning. Overseers threatened to physically kill the families of prisoners, including children. Torture was widely used, including against innocent people.

      The prisoners were also buried in the ditches, drilled teeth and skulls with a drill, and they used sexual violence against them. [12] The use of torture was confirmed by Craig Murray, who said in an interview with the French newspaper Le Temp that he was a direct witness to torture in secret prisons of MI-6, and also saw dozens of documents on torture compiled by security services in secret prisons with the stamp “according to the testimony of a prisoner”

      In 2010, the international human rights organization Physicians for Human Rights accused CIA doctors of complicity in torture and the study of methods to increase their effectiveness. ,,
      1. 0
        21 February 2020 10: 48
        And yes, I consider the existence of any secret prisons and the use of torture to be illegal. So what? And I certainly do not consider the USA as a beacon of justice. Just one moment - not a single inmate of secret US prisons was tried, as far as I know. These are all extrajudicial executions. This means that they are doubly illegal. Now re-read carefully what I have written. The arguments "and in the USA they hang blacks" have long become obsolete
        1. 0
          21 February 2020 10: 58
          Only I wonder why you are pulling the maz at these terrorists. After all, torture is the everyday life of our law enforcement officers. Why such selectivity? And the worse Vasya Pupkin of these figures for whom you stand up for?
          1. +1
            21 February 2020 12: 55
            Quote: Nick Russ
            After all, torture is the everyday life of our law enforcement officers.

            )))
            It’s easy and pleasant to speak the truth.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            worse Vasya Pupkin of these figures for whom you stand up for?

            Nothing, of course. But 1. These figures are a kind of banner around which it is easier to collect a tusnyak. 2. The Russian public is deeply infantile. Pity the boys - please, individually, but to fit in with the nouns - first of all, for the abolition of the 228th people - she will not.
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 13: 46
              If you cancel 228, then partially. Compulsory treatment for drug addicts, while the rest can be extended.
          2. 0
            21 February 2020 14: 41
            The hypocrisy of human rights defenders rolls over.
            And it just becomes clear and understandable as a white day that they all work out grants received from abroad. Otherwise, they would protect everyone, and not selectively: ,, snacks, ”of terrorists and the like.
          3. 0
            21 February 2020 15: 15
            Dear, I am not a doctor and I can’t make an accurate diagnosis of your disorder. But I highly recommend contacting a doctor. If you do not know what the rule of law is and that even a terrorist, taken with arms in his hands, cannot be taken in place if he did not resist, and can not be tortured, then I can not help you. I really hope that you are lucky and the cops from your Usraty-Zazhipinsk will never shove you a soldering iron in the anus, forcing you to admit the rape of the goat of Nyura's grandmother
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 15: 45
              Cops are not fools. They shove the soldering iron only if they probably know the guilt of the person, but there is not enough evidence or too lazy to prove.
              Well, again, for a goat, the soldering iron will not be crammed. Here you need something more serious.

              And I do not say that it is right.
              Only it is necessary to fight specifically with torture, and not use them as an excuse to free criminals. This is unacceptable.
      2. +1
        21 February 2020 12: 58
        Quote: Nick Russ
        USA George W. Bush formally recognized the existence of these places

        The matter, of course, is not good.
        How many Americans were there?
        1. 0
          21 February 2020 13: 28
          ,, How many Americans were there ,,

          And if it was not Americans who were tortured there, then this does not deserve attention? The rest are not people?
          Well, judging by the periodic shooting of blacks in the United States, I think that torture in America is also commonplace.
          1. +2
            21 February 2020 18: 15
            Quote: Nick Russ
            And if it was not Americans who were tortured there, then this does not deserve attention?

            Of course not.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            The rest are not people?

            Basic human right is the right to vote in the election of the President of the United States (but more than Congress). All other rights are based on it. If you do not have this right - excuse me, the American authorities do not owe you anything. Find the person you voted for and ask him.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            periodic shooting of blacks in the USA, I think

            What do you think? Who told you that statistics on one type of crime should be applied to another type of crime?
            Quote: Nick Russ
            shove a soldering iron only if ... too lazy to prove.

            It is very nice to see an honest person.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            If you cancel 228, then partially

            Well, you see. When you start talking about the problem as a whole, comrades like you crawl out, and there are enough of them among the conditional liberals. It’s always easier to defend a specific innocent.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            for a goat the soldering iron will not be crammed

            You in vain exaggerate the value of your anus for the homeland. You can make a hell of a mistake.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            use them as an excuse to free criminals. This is unacceptable.

            I remind you that any person whose guilt is not proven in court is innocent. Any person convicted on the basis of evidence obtained in violation of procedural rules and accepted by the court is a victim of a crime of 299 CC, up to 10 years.
            1. 0
              21 February 2020 19: 28
              ,, Basic human right is the right to vote in the election of the President of the United States (but more than Congress). All other rights are based on it. If you do not have this right - excuse me, the American authorities do not owe you anything. Find the person you voted for and ask him. ,,

              There is still international law. UN Convention.

              ,, What do you think? Who told you that statistics on one type of crime should be applied to another type of crime ?,

              The usual logic of things. If you can kill, then who will forbid torture ?!



              ,, In vain you exaggerate the value of your anus for the motherland. You can make a hell of a mistake. ,,

              On the contrary. I am a person who doesn’t really represent anything. And the more valuable the anus, the more likely it is that a soldering iron will be crammed into it.

              ,, I remind you that any person whose guilt is not proven in court is innocent. Any person convicted on the basis of evidence obtained in violation of the procedural rules and accepted by the court is a victim of a crime 299 of the Criminal Code, up to 10 years. ,,

              Terrorists are not released. And everywhere there are exceptions.
              1. +2
                21 February 2020 21: 22
                Quote: Nick Russ
                There is still international law

                All US international obligations are introduced into the system of national law as acts of Congress or presidential decrees, in accordance with the powers of the latter. Where can I find the history of this problem in the context of American law?

                Although I like your argument that the Russian state treats its citizens as American with the Taliban.

                Quote: Nick Russ
                If you can kill, then who will forbid torture ?!

                The same people who sued the police in the cases you mentioned.
                In the United States, police misconduct in the precinct is becoming national news. In Russia
                Quote: Nick Russ
                torture is the everyday life of our law enforcement officers.

                Quote: Nick Russ
                the more valuable the anus, the greater the chance

                On the contrary. Russian law enforcement officers love people whom no one in the world writes at all. Just on such a plan and do.
                Quote: Nick Russ
                Terrorists are not released. And everywhere there are exceptions.

                And this is no exception. About everyday life you said above. About not let out - more than a half of acquittals by jury, EMNIP. The court - tenths of a percent. The difference is 200 times.
                1. -1
                  21 February 2020 23: 06
                  ,, On the contrary. Russian law enforcement officers love people whom no one in the world writes at all. Just on such a plan and do. ,,

                  You cannot blame the homeless for terrorism. No one will believe. And he will take the theft without torture. After all, in prison there is a bed and three meals a day.
                2. 0
                  21 February 2020 23: 16
                  ,, All US international obligations are introduced into the system of national law as acts of Congress or presidential decrees, in accordance with the powers of the latter. Where can I find the history of this problem in the context of American law ?,

                  https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5580ce889a79472cf94e166b?utm_source=amp_full-link
                3. +1
                  21 February 2020 23: 27
                  ,, The same people who sued the police in the cases you mentioned.
                  In the United States, police misconduct in the precinct is becoming national news. In Russia,,

                  ,, The largest number of deaths at the hands of the police compared to other countries occurs in the United States, where police kill an average of 2,8 people per day and account for 8% of adult male killings between 2012 and 2018.American Journal of Public Health, “civilian contact with law enforcement exposes individuals to a non-trivial risk of premature death” According to statistics, in 2015 and 2016 the number of unarmed African-Americans killed was reduced from 38 to 17, which was the result of the Black Lives Matter protest movement. Compared to these statistics, 25 unarmed whites were killed by police in 2017, compared to 30 in 2015; 12 unarmed Hispanics were killed by the police in 2017, compared to 19 in 2015. In 2018, the proportion of unarmed whites killed by the police is 52%, Hispanics - 7-17%, blacks - 26-38%. The chance of dying at the hands of American police is higher for blacks, people with mental illnesses and armed with knives or pistols.

                  The independent journalist Brian Burghart in 2013 created a special site called Fatal encounters to record police killings, collecting information from news reports, since law enforcement officials are not required to keep track of the people they killed.
                  1. +1
                    22 February 2020 09: 55
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5580ce889a79472cf94e166b?utm_source=amp_full-link

                    It says that in 2011 Congress banned such practices outside the United States. And until 2011 - did not forbid.
                    Have you seen a recent vidosik from Syria with a sledgehammer?
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    You cannot blame the homeless for terrorism. No one will believe.

                    Come on.
                    https://theins.ru/obshestvo/183068
                    The judge will believe in the rest of the shit.
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    The largest, compared with other countries, the number of deaths at the hands of police officers occurs in the United States.

                    As I said above, garbage is America's shame. But there is still the American leftist, a completely separate category of creatures.
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    Here, police kill an average of 2,8 people per day and are responsible for 8% of the killings.

                    In 2016, 47 people were killed in the United States per day. This figure is steadily declining.
                    Oh yes
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    8% of murders of adult men

                    Let's play with the sample so that the percentage is higher.
                    Quote: Nick Russ
                    According to statistics, in 2015 and 2016 the number of killed unarmed African-Americans fell from 38 to 17, which was the result of the Black Lives Matter protest movement. Compared to these statistics, 25 unarmed whites were killed by police in 2017, compared to 30 in 2015; 12 unarmed Hispanics were killed by the police in 2017, compared to 19 in 2015.

                    17+25+12=54. 54/2,8=19 дней. 54/17250=0,3%.
                    Or the American police kill unarmed Americans 19 days a year. The rest of the time she kills armed Americans, which, in principle, is considered her work.
                    Or 19 days she kills blacks, whites and Latinos. All the rest of the days she kills Asians.
                    Either the American police make an annual plan for killing civilians in 19 days, and the rest of the time they play dominoes or go to gay parades.


                    Or American independent journalists have communist arithmetic. They are professional good people, not accountants.
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2020 10: 14
                      The rest of the time she kills armed Americans, which, in principle, is considered her work.

                      ,, In the USA, the right to own weapons is enshrined in the constitution, specific conditions are regulated at the regional level. Covert firearms are currently permitted in all states except Illinois. In 29 of them, you can also wear it openly without restrictions (not counting special zones - airports, schools, etc.), and another 14 - with special permission. Usually the minimum age for using long-barreled weapons is 18 years, and the short-barreled ones are 21 years. Some states have special restrictions. For example, in California you can buy no more than one trunk in 30 days.
  40. 0
    21 February 2020 10: 03
    Oligarchic power shows teeth
  41. +1
    21 February 2020 10: 05
    I'm afraid to be banned again.
    First, why did this network maintain direct links with the Right Sector and the SBU?
    The second is why citizen Sagynbayev traveled so often to Turkey. I don’t think to rest. And Chernov and Ivankin have been to Riga many times. We met with Kasparov. They probably played chess. This information is online
    1. 0
      21 February 2020 10: 57
      Quote: DeGreen
      First, why did this network maintain direct links with the Right Sector and the SBU?
      The second is why citizen Sagynbayev traveled so often to Turkey. I don’t think to rest. And Chernov and Ivankin have been to Riga many times. Kasparov met

      There was an HIV-terrorist above, so Yarosh’s business card appeared, where would you go without it. And Kasparov is now banned in Russia, like ISIS?
      Why is there no guitar? Need a guitar necessarily!
  42. +1
    22 February 2020 15: 24
    I am not a lawyer at all, but I imagine the punishment for such incomplete crimes as follows ... If the organization existed in reality, it had some far-reaching plans. That very disclosure and identification of the participants is the most important result. As soon as the secret became apparent, the degree of threat from this “secret” became less than negligible. Now about the punishment. In my opinion, it is enough to put on an electronic bracelet for everyone. Control movement. Send to work in people. To the hospital by junior medical staff, to grandmothers in nursing homes and other useful applications of their young forces. In the same place, you can communicate with people for one thing, sharing your unfulfilled plans. ... And by measuring SUCH terms for the neo-Narodnaya Volya guys, the authorities show their fear. And, most likely, she will not last long. Because the effect will be the opposite of the intimidation. The guys acquired the aura of fighters and martyrs. And hundreds of new ones will take their place. The shitty life of common people is very conducive to this. And the Russian oligarchs, unfortunately, are now even more stupid and not far-sighted than their fellow wallets in 1917
    1. +3
      22 February 2020 16: 59
      Quote: talib
      As soon as the secret became apparent, the degree of threat from this “secret” became less than negligible. Now about the punishment. In my opinion, it is enough to put on an electronic bracelet for everyone

      That's right. And what if someone planned, for example, to kill you personally? And he was also stopped in time? Do you also suggest "put a bracelet on him"? And what, he is no longer dangerous ...
      1. 0
        22 February 2020 17: 40
        Quote: SaltY
        And what if someone planned, for example, to kill you personally? And he was also stopped in time? Do you also suggest "put a bracelet on him"? And what, he is no longer dangerous ...

        And some are sure that this will not affect them in any way.
        1. +3
          22 February 2020 17: 42
          Quote: Dart2027
          And some are sure that this will not affect them in any way

          Ugums. And also some of them have never heard that there are laws in the country and their code - CC.
      2. +2
        22 February 2020 20: 50
        Quote: SaltY
        And what if someone planned, for example, to kill you personally? And he was also stopped in time? Do you also suggest "put a bracelet on him"?

        I will propose to deal with my problems on my own, and not to inform the police wiring. Already, and the cops will definitely not stop anyone, they are paid for disclosure, and not for prevention.
        1. +1
          22 February 2020 22: 56
          Quote: Octopus
          I will offer to deal with my problems myself

          How about in the Wild West?
          1. +1
            22 February 2020 22: 59
            Quote: Dart2027
            How about in the Wild West?

            Somewhat more careful. In the Wild West, it should be recognized that the situation was much healthier.
            1. 0
              22 February 2020 23: 13
              Quote: Octopus
              No, I didn’t write this. I wrote that I distinguish between bandits
              So these are not your words
              Quote: Octopus
              In a similar story - Little Steel - CHOPs (half-brothers) stood for the ORDER.
              That is, according to your own words, in the USA the order is ensured by bandits.
              Quote: Octopus
              Somewhat more careful.
              And how?
              1. +1
                22 February 2020 23: 28
                Quote: Dart2027
                That is, according to your own words, in the USA the order is ensured by bandits.

                ORDER by caps - this is a quote from you.
                And in the States, firstly, YUSSstil went to meet the workers themselves in advance. (in fact, the Little Steel conflict - workers in small steel companies demanded the same working conditions as the industry leader).
                Secondly, a couple of years after these events, Congress held the labor act of the 38th year, where most of those workers' requirements were fixed at the federal level.
                And finally, thirdly. In Chicago, the millionth city, 16 (sixteen) people died during the events under discussion. The dead Russians in tiny Bodaibo were not even considered so as not to be upset in vain.
      3. 0
        25 February 2020 00: 37
        You twist a little:) They seem to be not criminals or robbers. And I personally, well, not at all a deputy and not an oligarch. The current system is capitalist, which was sold to all of us instead of the "nightmarish" socialist past. Personally, it doesn't suit me at all. If they are REALLY Bolsheviks, they are Marxists. They were ready to give their lives for ordinary people. At least, to return the power and loot to the people. And here we come to the fact that for someone troublemakers are worthy of the most terrible punishment. And for some, ardent, but not experienced young revolutionaries. The very same - cruel, but just executioners from the people who are tired of enduring. All our reasoning is at the level of assumptions. I am sure that information about the trial will be distorted by the authorities in every possible way.
  43. 0
    22 February 2020 15: 41
    Quote: s-t Petrov
    Russian officers

    Holy Good Celestial Officers Sent To Sinful Earth by Angels In The Rays Of Divine Light To Protect From Above Scattering.
    Say things by their names, do not blaspheme. Or are you a heretic and durnover?
  44. 0
    25 February 2020 00: 48
    I answer you, Dear SaltY (Salty) February 22, 2020 16:59 You twist a little :) They seem to be not criminals or robbers. And I personally, well, not at all a deputy and not an oligarch. The current system is capitalist, which was sold to all of us instead of the "nightmarish" socialist past. Personally, it doesn't suit me at all. If they are REALLY Bolsheviks, they are Marxists. They were ready to give their lives for ordinary people. At least, to return the power and loot to the people. And here we come to the fact that for someone troublemakers are worthy of the most terrible punishment. And for some, ardent, but not experienced young revolutionaries. The very same - cruel, but just executioners from the people who are tired of enduring. All our reasoning is at the level of assumptions. I am sure that information about the trial will be distorted by the authorities in every possible way. [/ Quote]
  45. 0
    25 February 2020 09: 10
    There were no standard groans about "deep polarization" and "progressive impoverishment". Society has become so polarized that it is impossible to walk in the courtyards on foot - everything is filled with cars of polarized beggars who have become impoverished to the point of owners of BMW and Toyota. Crowds of progressing poor people occupied overseas resorts and from there, through not the cheapest devices, they whine about how they, the poor, became poorer. I wanted to go to Bermuda, but it was enough only for Phuket. It seems that you didn’t live like that in 1996. Then beggars were piling up at every trash can. So what real progressive polarization and impoverishment look like, I know for sure. Don't make my slippers laugh with the current "poor". The problem is not impoverishment, but the fact that young fools have lost their rectum. I wanted to stir up something epoch-making. At the same time, they did not read Marx and Lenin very carefully. Vladimir Ilyich did not train militants, but created a party. So let them sit and think about their mistakes. A harsh sentence? Did you have to wait first for the kids to start killing? No, for a long time the priest had to stop these giveaways, when they give a maximum of 15 days for riots. This created the illusion that nothing will happen for it.
  46. 0
    25 February 2020 09: 10
    There were no standard groans about "deep polarization" and "progressive impoverishment". Society has become so polarized that it is impossible to walk in the courtyards on foot - everything is filled with cars of polarized beggars who have become impoverished to the point of owners of BMW and Toyota. Crowds of progressing poor people occupied overseas resorts and from there, through not the cheapest devices, they whine about how they, the poor, became poorer. I wanted to go to Bermuda, but it was enough only for Phuket. It seems that you didn’t live like that in 1996. Then beggars were piling up at every trash can. So what real progressive polarization and impoverishment look like, I know for sure. Don't make my slippers laugh with the current "poor". The problem is not impoverishment, but the fact that young fools have lost their rectum. I wanted to stir up something epoch-making. At the same time, they did not read Marx and Lenin very carefully. Vladimir Ilyich did not train militants, but created a party. So let them sit and think about their mistakes. A harsh sentence? Did you have to wait first for the kids to start killing? No, for a long time the priest had to stop these giveaways, when they give a maximum of 15 days for riots. This created the illusion that nothing will happen for it.