The Network Case: Airsoft Training or Revolutionary Scenarios


Defendants in the Seti case, on February 10, 2020, found guilty and sentenced to long terms of imprisonment, are going to appeal the verdict.


The “Network” (banned in the Russian Federation) was recognized as a terrorist organization, and seven of its members were sentenced by the verdict of the Volga District Military Court: Pchelintsev to 18 years in prison, Shakursky to 16, Chernov to 14, Ivankin to 13, Kulkov - at 10, Kuksov - at 9, Sangynbaev - at 6. The young people themselves say: they are not guilty of anything, and the confession was knocked out by special services with the help of torture. Igor Shishkin, whose case was examined in a special order, on January 17, 2019 received 3,5 years in a general regime colony.

Recall that the Network case was initiated by the Federal Security Service in 2017. The residents of Penza, Moscow and St. Petersburg passed along it. Intelligence agencies established that these persons planned to carry out a series of resonant terrorist attacks in Russia and destabilize the situation in the country, for which they created a terrorist organization.

According to investigators, by 2016, the “Network” took shape in a hierarchical structure with a clear distribution of responsibilities of participants. Its main goal was the implementation of the revolution in Russia. Allegedly, a certain scenario of an armed coup called “Hour" H "was developed. In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, and the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.

To implement their plans, members of the organization conducted regular training near Penza. They practiced on them the possible tactics of action during the riots. The convicts themselves, however, claim that these were only airsoft classes.

Explosives, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances, as well as political literature, including the works of the classics of Marxist thought, were seized from some detainees during searches. Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value. Together with Capital, the GRU special forces textbook and several anarchist brochures also confiscated during the searches were “sentenced” to burning.

The resonance of the Network business was enormous. Firstly, many circumstances of the case still raise questions from the public - these are the statements of the accused about the torture applied to them, and extremely harsh sentences.

Secondly, an underground organization was planned in Russia (if you accept the official version), which planned the whole revolution. Moreover, the organization is not Islamic, not right-wing, but ultra-left, inspired by communist ideas. And the fact that this organization included completely prosperous, previously not convicted, young people - students, workers, even an entrepreneur - is also very revealing.

First about the verdict. Eighteen years is a very tough measure. Recall that in the sensational case of the "Amazons" who literally shot police officers in the Rostov region and were found guilty of the brutal murder of an officer of the Nizhny Novgorod SOBR with his wife and two young children, the defendants received approximately the same sentences - from 16 years to 21 years in prison.

But on the account of the gang of "Amazons" - 10 proven murders, among the victims - law enforcement officers, children. In addition to the killings, he was charged with banditry, illegal traffic weapons, many episodes of robbery, theft and assault on the lives of police officers. The same terms (15-20 years) were received and received by key members of the criminal groups of the “dashing nineties”, which accounted for dozens of human lives, banditry, robberies and robberies, and other serious crimes.

It is clear that the verdict in the Network case is intended not only to punish its participants for their planned actions, but also to frighten the rest of the potential radicals: they say you will create such groups - you will also sit for a long time. Tough sentences against radicals are becoming the norm. But, unfortunately, they do not always look justified in the eyes of society. For example, 19-year-old Yan Sidorov and 22-year-old Vladislav Mordasov received 6,5 years each in a maximum security colony for a picket that they staged in Rostov-on-Don. They were also accused of trying to revolution.

Meanwhile, the mere presence of people who are young and far from being the most antisocial in their way of life and behavior, ready to embark on the path of struggle with the authorities, the political system that has developed in Russia, is a very alarming fact.

Terrorists need to be punished, and punished severely. Members of extremist groups who are just about to embark on the path of terrorist activity must be punished in order to protect society and the state from them. And no lamentation about the punishment of “children”, who are 20-27 years old, in this case does not need to be taken into account. Adults, adults should understand what they are doing and what the consequences may be.

But without fighting the causes of their appearance and spread, terrorism and extremism cannot be defeated. And in each such case, one should not immediately speak of the “hand of Western intelligence services” or the “Ukrainian trace”. Unfortunately, the social reality in modern Russia is such that there are more and more people dissatisfied with it. The deepest social polarization, progressive poverty, corruption, isolation of government representatives from the people is far from a complete list of those reasons, which in themselves are enormous provoking factors for social fermentation. And these factors pose an equally serious threat to Russia's national security.
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  1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 22 New
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    they are children! And the fact that the animals were blown up was what they thought about Russia! They wanted us to make life a fairy tale by building communism!
    There are enough of them, only one difference - there is just whining, and these hazel grouse decided to raise their seats.
    For which they were punished. They would crow about the revolution as well-known forum users - they would be marshals and go free

    And in each such case it’s not worthwhile to speak immediately about the “hand of the Western special services” or the “Ukrainian trace”.


    wassat and these here are generally no sideways. They have just been pumping money and the information field of any disease for 30 years.

    Indeed, in all countries that pump our fighters with grants, the problem of poverty and justice has been resolved.

    PS Minus brings panic to the Kremlin, Putin packs his bags and is ready to run from The Hague
    1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 31 New
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      Quote: c-Petrov
      Would crow about revolution

      You crow here.
      1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 33 New
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        You crow here.


        20 years of continuous pain and patience have made you a worthy grant fighter, I think.
        Tyutyukin could and you will succeed.

        You need a collective application from patriots with VO - they say so and so - we’ve been shaking it for 20 years - we want investment in the fight.

        Open YouTube Channel - Military Review - Realities
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 19 February 2020 13: 57 New
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          as well as political literature, including the writings of the classics of Marxist thought. Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value.
          There is some pervasive universal justice in this. I believe that every lover of revolutionary romance, Bolshevism, the 37th year and the Gulag should forcibly receive a homeopathic dose of this very Gulag, as the heroes of the article. Useful for education and mental development.
          1. Genry 19 February 2020 17: 18 New
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            "Entered" into the "Network" .....
            1. Was mammoth 19 February 2020 21: 27 New
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              What an interesting video! wink What details! You can be a terrorist, push drugs, concurrently be a sex maniac and get only 6 years old! belay It’s scary to think about the affairs of the leader. Or do we still don’t know something?
              1. Lexus 20 February 2020 02: 05 New
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                It’s scary to think about the affairs of the leader. Or do we still don’t know something?

                Instead of studying the "May decrees," he regularly read Capital. K. Marx. And during interrogation it turned out that he did not support amendments to the Constitution. The “recidivist" is evident. For such a sin not to throw a nuclear device, not like "Saigu" and drugs. So now the "Factory of Stars" is working for security officials. wink
                If there was a man, there would be an Article (C)
          2. Campanella 20 February 2020 14: 08 New
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            Yes, you are a dense person Vyacheslav Viktorovich and an ignoramus who grew up on propaganda. You yourself know how to think? Or within the older kindergarten group?
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 20 February 2020 14: 29 New
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              Oh really? And how was it in reality, enlighten?
              1. Campanella 20 February 2020 14: 47 New
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                Please, the children are always maximalist and little intolerant of the injustice and political mischief of older uncles. And if they conditionally put together into "terrorist" groups, then there are prerequisites for this.
                This is the case if this case is not fabricated.
                As for the Gulag, you don’t need to use pro-government agitation prop in serious conversations, it’s the same as turning up a heavenly hundred under a coup, the figure is beautiful and sonorous. If we take the history of Russia, there will be many facts when people were massively massacred, and you didn’t be surprised at this, and not only in Russia.
                Quietly dead from the results of the Yeltsin revolution, you don’t interest me, but Stalin’s “genocide” doesn’t give you peace!
                In the 90s, we lost so much people in criminal wars, so many died from poverty, lack of money, lack of medicine, Stalin is a saint in comparison with the silent killer Yeltsin! But Yeltsin cannot be blamed ... why? Because he fought the tyranny of Stalin! That is why the name of Stalin has not left the media for decades. This is an excuse for all modern power, its legitimacy!
                1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 20 February 2020 14: 51 New
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                  The proposal to choose between Yeltsin and Stalin is a standard logical mistake, known as https://ru.rationalwiki.org/wiki/False_Dilemma
                  1. Campanella 20 February 2020 16: 50 New
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                    I had no proposal to choose between Stalin and Yeltsin.
                    Firstly, the figures are not commensurate.
                    Secondly, I talked about something else.
                    The fact that the approach to the analysis of the politician’s activities, his personality should proceed from the results of his affairs and taking into account the historical features of the time in which this policy had to be corrected.
                    As for logical errors - a standard logical error is about nothing. This is not an axiom or a postulate. And it was the use of standard logical errors that led individuals to victories.
                    So I do not advise you to hide behind existing theories, their application is very limited.
                    Think, read, observe real life and analyze.
                    Threat. I want to add it was Yeltsin’s political scientists who built their propaganda using the error you indicated. I remember very well how the Yeltsin ugliness was smoothed out, frightening the people by returning to Stalin and the Gulag. The people bought themselves, the victims of the Stalinist regime wailed too much from all the media. I don’t try to justify Stalin in everything, but I understand perfectly how easily someone else’s work is evaluated.
      2. Catfish 19 February 2020 14: 51 New
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        Hello Vladimir hi and he sacredly believes in everything that is whistled on the box, so he crowes without getting down from a perch. And in our country, and in the “blessed memory of the Office”, and its current incarnation, the FSB has never been particularly scrupulous. They will do what they are ordered to and do not cross themselves.
        1. Deck 19 February 2020 15: 11 New
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          They will do what they are ordered and will not cross themselves


          Especially for the next star on shoulder straps. Well, or for grandmas
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Catfish 19 February 2020 16: 17 New
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            For the Caucasus and for those who pour blood, I did not say a word. Do not confuse "God's gift and fried eggs." In Soviet times, there were no Caucasus, and the Office was and "finalized" to the complete collapse of the USSR.
            And you already got down from the perch

            You do not need to poke either, you will not surprise anyone with rudeness, but it characterizes you yourself perfectly.
            1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 16: 21 New
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              he sacredly believes in everything that is whistled on the box, so he crowes without getting down from a perch.


              You do not need to poke either, you will not surprise anyone with rudeness


              are you offended Do not. I don’t take offense at you

              For the Caucasus and for those who pour blood, I did not say a word.

              Well, at least plus this one?
              Especially for the next star on shoulder straps. Well, or for grandmas


              1. Catfish 19 February 2020 16: 25 New
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                Talking with you about throwing peas on the wall is the same reaction, only the wall, unlike you, does not suffer from being rude. And to be offended ... don’t take too much on yourself, it’s just unethical to be offended by a certain category of people. request
                1. Lexus 20 February 2020 02: 29 New
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                  And to be offended ... don’t take too much on yourself, it’s just unethical to be offended by a certain category of people.
                  Konstantin, as a connoisseur of Russian history and a very well-read person, do you not know that we have always been treated with such characters indulgently, they even have 100% armor from the prison. Moreover, in some countries such people are considered “the sign of God” and worship them. As for me, I just understand that Mother Nature must sometimes have a rest. wink
                  1. Catfish 20 February 2020 04: 40 New
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                    Sometimes this Mother just jumps off, and this is harmful to the human population. smile
                    1. Lexus 20 February 2020 04: 54 New
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                      Nevertheless, “weekend children” consider themselves to be the crown of evolution. And those who disagree with their "official" point of view have already been appointed "Untermenschs." "Urya-Skakuasy," what to take from them ... request
                    2. Maki Avellevich 20 February 2020 07: 00 New
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                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      Sometimes this Mother just jumps off, and this is harmful to the human population.

                      genetic fluctuations cannot be undone. moreover, gene mutations are part of the evolutionary process.
                      everything is normal. smile
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      3. Xnumx vis 19 February 2020 15: 27 New
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        Such fighters against the regime of “Narodnaya Volya and Rakhmetovs” had already been sent to Russia for Mother. Blood of the people because of their good intentions spilled the sea .. Enough. it's time to stop the revolutionary fervor of girls and boys bought on slogans. Cut off ruthlessly And most importantly ... get puppeteers!
      4. Krasnoyarsk 19 February 2020 17: 00 New
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        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        You crow here.

        Without even thinking about crowing. But the theme is simple. The authorities are afraid! Because such a long time. And she’s afraid because she feels guilty for herself. He knows that it was necessary to work for the good of the people, and not for the benefit of a separate handful of "people"
        1. Cyrus 22 February 2020 09: 05 New
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          She’s not afraid, she’s just fed up with fussing with militant fools.
          1. Krasnoyarsk 22 February 2020 11: 27 New
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            Quote: Cyrus
            She’s not afraid, she’s just fed up with fussing with militant fools.

            Have you ever thought that this, as you say, is “militancy”, from hopelessness, from the fact that the government does not pay any attention to their problems generated by the government itself?
            1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 14 New
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              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              that this, as you say, is “militancy”, from hopelessness, from the fact that

              Here it is not necessary, but ... The arrested were by no means beggars.
              1. Krasnoyarsk 22 February 2020 18: 40 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                Here it is not necessary, but ... The arrested were by no means beggars.

                Do you think that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities?
                1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 43 New
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                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities

                  So what was their hopelessness? Hopelessness is when they die of hunger.
                  1. Krasnoyarsk 22 February 2020 23: 02 New
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                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    that only beggars can be dissatisfied with local authorities

                    So what was their hopelessness? Hopelessness is when they die of hunger.

                    Not only. When people see injustice with their own eyes and can do nothing about it. Isn't that hopelessness?
                    1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 23: 11 New
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                      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                      When people see injustice with their own eyes and can do nothing about it. Isn't that hopelessness?

                      These are called beautiful words. "Wars are always sacred to those who kindle them, otherwise which one will go to war." Didn't read Gone With the Wind?
                      1. Krasnoyarsk 22 February 2020 23: 24 New
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                        Quote: Dart2027
                        These are called beautiful words.

                        Any words can be ridiculed or questioned if there are no other arguments.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        "Wars are always sacred to those who kindle them, otherwise which one will go to war."

                        I have no opinion on the topic of the article Why? Because: 1. I do not trust journalists. 2. I do not trust the police. Both are guilty of the fact that I do not trust them. I won’t give examples of their lies about journalists, you already know this without me, but about the police; how long has it been a drug-trafficking affair with an opposition journalist?
                        Therefore, in the case of "Network" I remain in a neutral position. If what I incriminate is true, then I - angrily condemn! And if the case is fabricated in order to remove objectionable local authorities? Is such an option possible? Alas, it is possible.
                        Of course I did. But ... I like our classics more
                      2. Dart2027 23 February 2020 13: 07 New
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                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Any words can be ridiculed or questioned if
                        There is a prose of life. Beautiful words about injustice were spoken by both Syrian terrorists and Ukrainian Maydauns.
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        If what I incriminate is true, then I - angrily condemn! And if the case is fabricated in order to remove objectionable local authorities?

                        If this were so, then in our time and with the level of development of the Internet, this would have been trumpeted for a long time across all networks and forums. They were not objectionable. Whether they reached the realization of their plans or not, one can still doubt, but one could believe that they were preparing.
                      3. Krasnoyarsk 23 February 2020 13: 54 New
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                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There is a prose of life. Beautiful words about injustice were spoken by both Syrian terrorists and Ukrainian Maydauns.

                        You can’t argue with you here. This is true.
                        Quote: Dart2027

                        If this were so, then in our time and with the level of development of the Internet, this would have been trumpeted for a long time across all networks and forums.

                        I do not "get along" on the Internet, therefore, not in courses. It remains to agree with you. But, the question arises - what did they want? Make a terrorist act for a terrorist attack? Hard to believe.
                      4. Dart2027 24 February 2020 15: 22 New
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                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        But, the question arises - what did they want?

                        It is possible that they themselves did not know. Perhaps self-affirming. Perhaps they were simply fooled by people smarter and more educated (like those who are lured into ISIS). There are many options.
  2. your1970 23 February 2020 20: 58 New
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    for similar crimes under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926 shooting......
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    . Power fears! Because such a long time. And she’s afraid because she feels guilty for herself. He knows that it was necessary to work for the good of the people, and not for the benefit of a separate handful of "people"
    - USSR goes ALSO feared and felt guilt behind you? fool fool
    Any the state protects itself from attacks
    1. Krasnoyarsk 23 February 2020 22: 12 New
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      Quote: your1970
      - Does the USSR come out ALSO afraid and felt guilty for itself?

      There are such concepts - a crime, an attempt to commit a crime and an intention to commit a crime.
      In the "network" business, we see precisely the intention. The USSR did not give such terms for the intention.
      Do you have confidence that they would move from intentions to an attempt? I do not have.
      1. your1970 24 February 2020 01: 31 New
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        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        . In the USSR for intention such terms were not given.

        Uuuuppsss !! that is, all those who were repressed for 58 and others, in the 50-60s Rehabilitated ILLEGAL ??? They mean everyone seriously wanted to overthrow the Soviet regime ????? Once in your opinion, "for the intentions in the USSR did not give deadlines" ????
        fool fool
        1. Krasnoyarsk 24 February 2020 11: 11 New
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          Quote: your1970
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          . In the USSR for intention such terms were not given.

          Uuuuppsss !! that is, all those who were repressed for 58 and others, in the 50-60s Rehabilitated ILLEGAL ??? They mean everyone seriously wanted to overthrow the Soviet regime ????? Once in your opinion, "for the intentions in the USSR did not give deadlines" ????
          fool fool

          First of all, twist at your temple. We heard tales of "illegally" repressed and let's draw conclusions. 1. So that you know, not all were rehabilitated, and they stopped considering cases, because there was no one to rehabilitate, with rare exceptions. They rehabilitated a couple of hundred, despite their crimes, for people like you, for show-offs and closed the rehabilitation company.
          Imagine, seriously wanted to overthrow, someone power, someone only Stalin, someone else what.
          And 2. There are crimes that are not socially dangerous and the punishments for them are minimal. But time comes and they become massive, then the legislator toughens penalties for these crimes. This must also be taken into account.
          Why do you believe more in propaganda journalistic tales than the research of serious scientists? Just because you feel like it? Are you into self-deception?
          1. your1970 24 February 2020 19: 15 New
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            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            1. That you know, not all were rehabilitated, and stopped consider cases because rehabilitate there was nobody, with rare exceptions. Rehabilitated a couple of hundred, in spite of their crimes, for those like you, for show-offs and closed the rehabilitation company.
            Are you weird .... fool fool
            It’s actually the USSR rehabilitated - not current
            and the numbers of rehabilitated even then were published
            "AT 1954-1961 years behind lack of corpus delicti were rehabilitated 737 182 person was refused in rehabilitation 208 448 convicted; at 1962-1983 years were rehabilitated 157 055 person failures received 22 754 person. "
            further
            "In 1988-1989, cases were reviewed for 856 people, 582 people were rehabilitated for them."
            God be with them - with the rehabilitated in 88-89 ...
            take off God - even with the rehabilitated in 1954-1961 ....
            There are enough numbers refuseniks - 208 448 people. These people, in the opinion of the Soviet government, were preparing for its overthrow, carried out terrorist acts against her, campaigned and the whole other assortment of article 58. The bulk of the village was precisely for intentions - not for actions
            And if you try to contradict this - you will need to give examples of at least hundreds of terrorist attacks - otherwise it’s quite obvious that they sat down INTENTIONS.And I don’t even doubt that there were people who wanted to overthrow the Soviet power, but nobody went further than the idle talk in the kitchen. Otherwise there would have been terrorist attacks and a lot ... And the Soviet government defended themselves as best they could - they arrested for intentions when they found out about them ...
  • old friend 19 February 2020 12: 35 New
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    where does this info about animals come from?
    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 37 New
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      One of the detained adolescents admits that he was planning to blow up the Kerch school number 15. In addition, he says that he mocked the kittens. Earlier it was reported that the test "test" explosive devices teenagers conducted on animals.


      damn it about other teenagers of terrorists. This in Kerch the other day detained clowns
      1. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 18 New
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        And he would only be louder as he said there to "crow".
    2. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 37 New
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      And there, in a stream of consciousness, Tyutyukin flashed some sort.
      1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 40 New
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        Tyutyukin somehow flashed.


        Do not recognize the military with the regime? Who decided with the Georgians how the Kremlin would stagger.
        Well, you and the opposition

        1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 48 New
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          Quote: c-Petrov
          Do not recognize the military with the regime? Who decided with the Georgians how the Kremlin will stagger. Well, you and the opposition
          It’s strange, you know about Tyutukin, but I don’t, but for some reason I am an oppositionist.
          1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 48 New
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            It’s strange, you know about Tyutukin, but I don’t, but for some reason I am an oppositionist.

            I love when these begin to bustle)

            1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 53 New
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              You dragged Tyutyukin, I first found out about him here. What's wrong?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 13: 05 New
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                  You almost like Bonacieux argue, only he has a "Cardinal and a haberdasher" and you have a "Tyutyukin and a Russian girl"
                  Quote: c-Petrov
                  how in Russia can Tyutukin not know
                  By the way, you obviously called Russia scornfully, where do you write yourself from?
                  1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 18 New
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                    scornfully? What is it like? Cite
                    I may not understand what in this life
                    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 42 New
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                      For the sake of interest, who here still does not know Tyutyukin-Udaltsov?
                      Just need to unsubscribe, the minus is not about this post.
                      Are there any from Russia?


                    2. Catfish 20 February 2020 01: 34 New
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                      Well, I don’t know your Tyutyukin, so what? Do I have to know all your friends?
    3. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 19 New
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      Rather, in the "stream" of unconsciousness
  • Vend 19 February 2020 12: 44 New
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    Until now, many circumstances of the case raise questions from the public - these are statements by the accused about torture inflicted on them, and extremely harsh sentences.
    In liberal clique cause exactly laughing They have so much material, such evidence, torture is no longer needed.
    1. Cyrus 22 February 2020 09: 07 New
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      By the way, yes, we expect high-profile cases and dog whining of liberals).
  • 210ox 19 February 2020 12: 57 New
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    These did not blow up animals - do not confuse with the Kerch followers of Roslyakov. And the conclusion in the article is correct-power by its actions itself provokes radicalism.
    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 19 New
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      power itself provokes radicalism.


      what are these? And when the miners pounded helmets, because CHILDREN were starving in families where there were radicals? When was there no food in the country? When the legs of the bush were on the shelves.
      When teachers sat for half a year without a salary, why was radicalism under the skin?
      Where was all the revolutionary vomit when Yukos bought the Communist Party? When Zyuganov jumped off the helm, where were the leftists of this site?
      When did you fly for Aeroflot money to borrow in the USA, where was the company of red revolutionaries with VO?

      I know where they all were.
      1. 210ox 19 February 2020 13: 49 New
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        You ask so if you do not live in Russia. Or are you one of those who feel good under any authority, such as the Mikhalkov clan.
        1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 14: 10 New
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          Well, they were not, right?
          more precisely, they were, just there was no VO forum and we did not know about them
          Then the officers at a side job night shot at each other for the interests of bandits

          It was bright at that time, no hints of a bad life

          power itself provokes radicalism.

          not about the 1990s at all. It happened in 2020. Power provoked radicalism of these pets


          Or are you one of those who feel good under any authority


          then I was petty, looked and was crazy about what your generation was doing and around yours. How Yeltsin was chosen, how the USSR was pumped, how Yeltsin was chosen for the second time. How coffins came from the Caucasus. I remember well. News watched sitting on the floor. I read this entire radicalism when it’s now on the forum ..

      2. Jack sklo 19 February 2020 14: 58 New
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        And where was Putin V.V.? Administration of St. Petersburg, then moved to Moscow: Administration of the President of the Russian Federation B.N. Yeltsin, director of the FSB, chairman of the government. It was all in the very 90s. Therefore, do not separate the current government from the previous one; it continues its policy by adjusting methods.
        1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 15: 23 New
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          And where was Putin V.V.?

          he seized power from the KGB and stopped the lawlessness that I witnessed firsthand.
          Therefore, do not separate the current government from the previous one.

          Yes. all of the CPSU are communists.
          But this does not remove previous questions.
          1. Campanella 22 February 2020 16: 44 New
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            Kindergarten! Putin seized power))) We must be friends with our heads!
            1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 15 New
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              Quote: Campanella
              Kindergarten! Putin seized power)))

              Remember where Berezovsky died there?
              1. Campanella 23 February 2020 01: 28 New
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                Putin is a follower of the Yeltsin’s course. He had to do what Yeltsin could not do — to collect the vertical of power. It turned out to be easier to do for the siloviki than for the First Secretary of the MGK and the candidate for the Politburo, Yeltsin.
                In economics, Putin’s policies are failing and leading the country to revolution.
                1. Dart2027 23 February 2020 13: 21 New
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                  Quote: Campanella
                  Putin is a follower of the Yeltsin’s course.
                  And so those who adored Yeltsin hate him.
                  Quote: Campanella
                  In economics, Putin’s policies are failing and leading the country to revolution.
                  Something is imperceptible.
                  1. Campanella 23 February 2020 14: 34 New
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                    I did not like Yeltsin and with great skepticism, to put it mildly, relate to Putin. Obviously, there are things that he did with a plus sign, but I doubt the motive. On the surface, the desire to preserve personal power and wealth, Russia itself and the people are clearly not favorites. Here, personal interest is more visible against the background of Russia. I can, of course, be mistaken, but have not yet managed to stumble upon the objective causes of what is happening, maybe they hide them from the people, so as not to injure our psyche?
                    1. Dart2027 24 February 2020 15: 31 New
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                      Quote: Campanella
                      but I doubt the motive. On the surface, the desire to maintain personal power and wealth

                      You know, in my opinion this is the most reliable incentive. In the United States, presidents, congressmen, senators can change, but in politics only the name of the country they are bombing changes. And I don’t believe a damn thing that the oligarchs there cheer for their people. They share with him, because this people is one of the foundations of their well-being. The problem of Russia is that from the time of RI, our elite did not understand one simple fact - at home they are princes, and in no other country. In the USSR it was the same.
                      Putin is not righteous? Yes, not at all. He is a professional intelligence officer, who survived the years of Perestroika, and without hiding himself to some wilderness, eventually became the head of state and seized power from the seven-bankers. What are his skeletons in the closet is better not even to think. But it always does. Power is always in those who are better than others who can fight for power and eliminate competitors. That is life.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Lopatov 19 February 2020 13: 27 New
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      Quote: 210ox
      These did not blow up animals


      These threw bottles at the military registration and enlistment office on the night of February 23.
      Trying to kill the drunken duty officer to give the people of Russia happiness ...
      1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 29 New
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        congratulated the military on the holiday. Warriors of the Empire. Here it is vomit, for which pseudo-wafers are drowned here
        The attendant separated these illnesses from happiness, yes.

        Interestingly, there at least one survivor for the happiness of the people served in the Native Army? Or are these revolutionaries as usual ...
        1. Campanella 23 February 2020 01: 36 New
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          What kind of revolutionaries can be in a totalitarian country?
          There was more democracy under Brezhnev than under the democrat Putin. People could uphold their rights at the grassroots level. And now don’t get ready for more than one thing, immediately the astronauts arrive ... It’s understandable around the enemies and the people are the enemy of the current government. Because how to solve the simple question of how to live on 10 tyr, the popularly elected cannot. Even when discussing the constitution, he called the people "this."
      2. Campanella 23 February 2020 01: 31 New
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        Who are these? Network? Admitted themselves?
    3. Prjanik 19 February 2020 14: 56 New
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      Quote: 210ox
      These did not blow up animals - do not confuse with the Kerch followers of Roslyakov. And the conclusion in the article is correct-power by its actions itself provokes radicalism.

      I hope you do not justify them here? belay Send all sick revolutionary terrorists to uranium mines, since the death penalty is not provided.
      1. 210ox 19 February 2020 18: 02 New
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        True, I do not condone. About uranium mines. Normal hard workers work there. But our leaders would not have any shoals and attempts to cover their asses, starting with the abolition of the column against everyone and ending with the pension reform, there would not have been these r-Evolutionaries.
        1. Prjanik 19 February 2020 18: 23 New
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          With all due respect to those working in the mines, I want to rot these “kids”. These revolutionaries cannot wait to drown the country in blood, well, let them take a sip themselves. And yet you justify a little, so you can justify everyone. Why the Kerch shooter is worse, because they were not friends with him in college, to understand and forgive. Even though radical Islamists cut their heads to infidels, then they are infidels, Allah tells them to understand and forgive. So chtoli?
          1. 210ox 20 February 2020 09: 10 New
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            As for the attacks I do not justify in any way. At the same time innocent people perish. Do not like the power-create a political force, fight. True, the political field has been cleaned up in our country. Kremlin power is opposed by a bunch of freaks. And so I have to spoil the ballot in the elections. I do not like either those or those.
          2. Paranoid50 20 February 2020 23: 56 New
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            Quote: Prjanik
            here these "kids" I want to rot.

            At this stage, with ushlepok and enough time. And in the "threatened period" such vampires will disappear without a trace, especially since then no curvy will blather in their favor.
          3. Campanella 23 February 2020 14: 39 New
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            Whom did these young people kill? Do you want to rot them? You are worse than the most bloody despots and tyrants. A victim of propaganda who has lost her mind and is ready to kill everyone in a row! People like you, with blind hatred, destroyed people under any power, believing in their infallibility!
      2. Campanella 23 February 2020 01: 40 New
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        Are you a doctor? Do you make diagnoses here?
        I personally do not believe the authorities! Grudinin was mixed with shit, drugs were planted to the journalist! It is not yet known who it is necessary to treat with mines.
        It is not known who the bell tolls ...
        1. your1970 23 February 2020 21: 08 New
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          Quote: Campanella
          Grudinin mixed with shit
          What is there to interfere with?
          SPK-AO-ZAO .... classic scheme of the 90s ...
          the owner of a closed joint-stock company can sell his property at any time to anyone who wants it (even to Trump !!!!) - unlike a joint-stock company, even the consent of the general meeting of shareholders is not necessary ....
          and there will be ZAO "Kolkhoz named after Lenin and Trump" ....
          you would be in a village (and not in the Moscow region !!) you would ask about him - the outback would tell you a lot how such units bought up and reformatted property
          1. Campanella 23 February 2020 21: 25 New
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            I’m not talking about this, he was taken there for revenues not specified in the declaration ... but the billionaire and latifundist Mishustin easily became the prime minister and no one really wondered where the money came from.
            1. your1970 24 February 2020 01: 24 New
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              If Grudinin would transfer his shares to the Communist Party in the Communist Party, there wouldn’t be any questions ..... otherwise it wouldn’t look like a millionaire at the head of the Communist Party ..... not liberal or conservative or socialist ....... .

              And so ..... if he even could not figure out his accounts and gave reason ... why do we need such happiness?
              1. Campanella 24 February 2020 10: 10 New
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                The question is not this, but double standards.
    4. Looking for 21 February 2020 23: 24 New
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      I would say, not by my actions but by the very fact of my existence.
  • Revival 19 February 2020 13: 30 New
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    Well, what is responsible for the sketch about the "blown up animals" or silently silently merge silently?
    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 32 New
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      I understand that reading is not necessary to ask, but try. I already wrote above that I confused these clowns with other animals that were going to revolution in Kerch.

      Well, in fact - you need to push both these and those. I don’t see a difference between these animals. It makes no difference to me with what kind of rags they are hiding.

      Both of them wanted to kill the Officers of Russia. Because in a different way this dirt can’t be realized

      1. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 33 New
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        I didn’t see it. Accepted
  • Campanella 20 February 2020 14: 22 New
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    If you believe the judges and the competent authorities, then society is at the beginning of the outbreak of autocratic power. Narodovoltsy and so on ... If, of course, history repeats itself, but it repeats, whoever knows it can judge it, people step on the historical rake at intervals. In this option, one can predict a further increase in the confrontation between the authorities and society. The authorities will make concessions too late, and even then the concessions will not satisfy anyone. And again, great 1917 ... In this regard, the power apologists only worsen the situation, bringing it to extreme forms, creating power for those who have unnecessary illusions. Without the support of the people, no government can stand. And if you just imitate it and stuff your pockets, then .. you yourself understand.
    In this regard, the response of our guarantor to the question of how to live for 10 sput is very remarkable.
    He replied that it was difficult to do this, but the most interesting thing was that he was asked the second question about his salary, to which he answered without blinking, that he did not have the highest salary! So you might think this fact relieves him of responsibility for the situation. It’s his competence to arrange corifans for posts, and how to answer for their activities is not him. That's what you want, then think after that. And what should children learn from this?
    1. Cyrus 22 February 2020 09: 12 New
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      Oh, just don’t say that you never used your connections and never asked anyone)).
  • Cyrus 22 February 2020 09: 04 New
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    Petrov. Are you sick or on heavy drugs? Who is packing their bags there, and how are the problems with poverty and inequality solved in the states and Britain?
  • Tank jacket 19 February 2020 12: 24 New
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    A revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates. Not enough. Timing is about nothing. In the USA they would have given 150 years.
    1. tihonmarine 19 February 2020 12: 29 New
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      Quote: Tank jacket
      A revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates. Not enough. Timing is about nothing. In the USA they would have given 150 years.

      In the United States, before creating such a “Network” they will think a thousand times. And if they try, then surely they will rake for 150 years, "without the right of correspondence."
      1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 32 New
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        In the US, before creating such a "Network"


        there all the "fighters" are registered and forcibly treated.

        American psychiatrists (unlike ours) have long included active protests against the authorities in the list of deviant manifestations that require identification and forced treatment in childhood. The low protest in the United States (unlike Europe) is explained by the fact that the opposition is recorded as a child and begins to be treated in a madhouse. In total, 3-5% of people have a tendency to fight against power.


        We would have here their psychiatrists for a couple of weeks wassat diagnoses would be distributed

        1. Octopus 19 February 2020 13: 17 New
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          Quote: c-Petrov
          The low protest in the United States (unlike Europe) is explained by the fact that the opposition is recorded as a child and begins to be treated in a madhouse.

          Yes yes

          Quote: c-Petrov
          The United States will think a thousand times before creating such a "Network"

          The United States recently took such a group. But not with airsoft guns and Capital, but with stingers and IEDs.
        2. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 21 New
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          Yeah, that's why there such "registered" with weapons appear in all their glory, and then they report that they say was under a cap, registered, but something poorly taken into account
        3. lukewarm 20 February 2020 16: 09 New
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          In the past, there were psychiatrists and diagnoses in the USSR. It was right, but it didn't help much in the end. Moreover, at every opportunity, power is being denied from the Soviet past. Something other than diagnoses is needed. Probably, to create public confidence that the state is their state, for their benefit and to reinforce this confidence financially, legally. In every way. The late Soviet Socialist Republic had big problems with this, and the modern Russian Federation had no problems in this regard only during the Russian Spring.
      2. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 12: 37 New
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        ALL revolutions and terrorist attacks are planned in London. Therefore, you need to judge for treason.
        1. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 31 New
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          Cuban also planned in London and carried out?
          1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 13: 44 New
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            But what about? It's just that Fidel, like Stalin, outplayed the Anglo-Saxons ... Read Rakovsky's Red Symphony.
      3. Lannan Shi 19 February 2020 13: 44 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine
        In the US, before creating such a "Network"

        There are 25.000 shooting clubs in the USA. And people in them are often with such radical views ... That Mr. Shiklgruber, against their background, is a conservative democrat. It’s just that in these same USA more than 230 million of them were officially shot at hand. From lady’s pistols to heavy machine guns and art tools. And with illegal they estimate far beyond 300. Therefore, the authorities there behave a little more courteous in relation to their citizens.
        1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 13: 57 New
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          Send photos from occupy Wall Street? Or tell about the executions by police citizens? Will you bring statistics?
          1. Octopus 20 February 2020 07: 49 New
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            Quote: Tank jacket
            Send photos from occupy Wall Street?

            1. Photo above.
            2. Occupy Wall Street - Colony homeless people hippies in the city center. They do not make a political protest (unlike the photo above), but arrange a day of disobedience. Overly protracted. Therefore, it was not the federals who dispersed them, but the city hall, all of a sudden. No one wants to see this shit under the windows every day.
            Quote: Tank jacket
            Or tell about the executions by police citizens?

            1. Garbage - the shame of America.
            2. For civilian post-shootings, they sit quite neatly.
            3. What does the crime in question have to do with political actions?
      4. Looking for 21 February 2020 23: 28 New
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        and it was not America that was the Great October Revolution. but in Russia.
    2. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 43 New
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      Quote: Tank jacket
      Revolution is millions of victims
      Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that unleash usually thrown off bankrupt tops. An example of a revolution without millions of victims, the Cuban revolution.
      1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 12: 46 New
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        Was Cuban rylovucia in Ukraine?
        1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 50 New
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          The Cuban revolution was in Cuba, Cuba is such a country, it is very far from Ukraine.
          1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 12: 51 New
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            So they themselves gave the answer. Russia is also far from Cuba. And Ukraine is near laughing
            1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 57 New
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              Was there a revolution in Ukraine? Here in Cuba, it was and went through the whole country, and in Ukraine there was a coup in the capital, where the chimes kicked a dumb raptor. I'm talking about the revolution, and you're talking about the coup. Very different things.
              1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 13: 03 New
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                Read carefully the article about the planned scenarios of these rylovutsioners ...
                "Hour." In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.
                1. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 13: 11 New
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                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  three possible scenarios
                  According to the organs.
                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  the most desired is a "popular uprising"
                  Of the three scenarios, this is the most desirable. Read carefully ... By the way, they “planned a revolution” from the words of the investigation, or maybe they actually planned actions in case of already occurring scenarios, and this greatly changes the matter.
                  1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 13: 39 New
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                    Why did they need explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances ??? These are the same Ishilovites in Syria and Bandera in Ukraine.
                    1. polar fox 19 February 2020 17: 10 New
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                      Quote: Tank jacket
                      Why did they need explosive devices, grenades

                      Well, in Udmurtia (EMNIP), the guy was given 2 years for an airsoft grenade, recognizing that this is IED ...
                      1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 20: 41 New
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                        Maybe he had a too powerful airsoft grenade?
                      2. would 21 February 2020 22: 25 New
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                        No-no-no, I immediately recall the “beautiful” case from Syktyvkar. There they gave 2 years of probation to an airsoft player for IEDs from firecrackers, toilet paper sleeves and striking elements from dry peas. It sounds like an anecdote based on absurdity, but this is a real criminal case with a real sentence.
                      3. Tank jacket 22 February 2020 17: 49 New
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                        No, not at once I recall the case of how more people died in the nineties than in the Second World War. Even we do not celebrate their deaths in the nineties, as the 75th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War. Maybe we remember standing without clinking glasses, those who did not fit into the MARKET ???!
                      4. Octopus 22 February 2020 20: 10 New
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                        Quote: Tank jacket
                        as in the nineties more people died than in the Second World War

                        In the year of the 75th anniversary of the Great Victory, order should be put in order in this matter. And it turns out that we, the survivors of the 90s with Royal alcohol and khanka, suffered worse than those in the besieged Leningrad. To me this approach to ourselves seems a bit immoral.
                        Although you personally did not find the 90s. I'm right?
                        Quote: Tank jacket
                        Maybe we remember standing without clinking glasses, those who did not fit into the MARKET ???!

                        Remember the dead, why not remember? Just what does it mean to "not fit"? In life, they would ask you for this.
                2. Octopus 20 February 2020 07: 54 New
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                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  Why did they need explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances ???

                  And were they?
                  1. Tank jacket 20 February 2020 08: 18 New
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                    And they were not? Link?
            2. 72jora72 19 February 2020 14: 32 New
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              Read carefully the article about the planned scenarios of these rylovutsioners ...
              "Hour." In total, three possible scenarios were considered: “Ukrainian” - on the model of events on the Maidan, “Syrian” - inciting a civil war, the third scenario - the most desirable - “popular uprising”.
              We read only the official version of power, as it was and is in fact we do not know. Maybe it’s really "Capital hit" in their heads, or maybe some general wanted to "uncover a conspiracy" and get an asterisk, maybe faces themselves led this group.
              1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 14: 50 New
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                Do not succumb to provocations and you will not be led ...
                1. polar fox 19 February 2020 17: 12 New
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                  Quote: Tank jacket
                  Do not succumb to provocations and you will not be led

                  already passed ... in the military-industrial complex on the operative in the FSB as "unreliable", as the airsoft team organized ... back in 11th. until the airsoft sport recognized)))
                  1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 20: 38 New
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                    Are you trustworthy?)))
      2. Revival 19 February 2020 13: 32 New
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        Yes, he is probably another 200 years old about "Ukraine" that's all
        1. Tank jacket 19 February 2020 14: 00 New
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          Yes to me, these Networks, too, all the ears have been buzzing liberotny media for 200 years. To everyone ... and all business ...
  • Dart2027 19 February 2020 13: 26 New
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    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that are usually unleashed

    That is, those who defend themselves are to blame?
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    An example of a revolution without millions of victims, the Cuban revolution

    And what are there millions in Cuba?
    1. Vladimir_2U 20 February 2020 03: 51 New
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      Quote: Dart2027
      Millions of victims, these are the results of civil wars that are usually unleashed

      That is, those who defend themselves are to blame
      You cut the quote, noticeably changing the meaning
      thrown off bankrupt
      top

      Quote: Dart2027
      And what are there millions in Cuba?
      In 1960 there were 6 million, now more than 11 million. What was difficult to ask before asking a stupid question?
      1. Dart2027 20 February 2020 06: 45 New
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        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        noticeably changing the meaning

        And what is he? Regular fighters for all the good begin an armed rebellion overthrowing the government and killing its supporters, which provokes a response, that is, self-defense.
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        By 1960 there were 6 million

        Judging by the revolutions in France and the Republic of Ingushetia, the number of victims will be approximately in the region of 10-15% of the population, so millions were not there.
  • lukewarm 19 February 2020 15: 34 New
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    Quote: Tank jacket
    In the USA they would have given 150 years.

    So US to us:
    a) enemies
    b) partners
    c) "partners"
    Choose the one you need, as in the exam. What to pray for them? Like Hiroshima - so fu fu fu USA. Iraq, Afghanistan, ISIS, Syria - Fu Fu Fu USA. And here is a direct role model. So in the United States, police for a child’s pistol will roll olive on the child’s forehead. No double standards, please.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Octopus 20 February 2020 07: 58 New
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      Quote: unwillingly
      So in the United States, police for a child’s pistol will roll olive on the child’s forehead

      Seriously? 1. This is when it happened? 2. The fate of the police?
      1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 10: 36 New
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        Offhand search in Yandex
        https://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/8240422.html
        But the story was. Not a child is true, a 15-year-old teenager, if memory serves.
        1. Octopus 20 February 2020 10: 56 New
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          Quote: unwillingly
          Not a child true, a 15 year old teenager,

          That is, it could very well be a two-meter Negril under dope with a barrel.

          Again.
          Quote: Octopus
          The fate of the police?
          1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 16: 19 New
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            HZ. I’m from memory, from the news a year ago. I repent, not an encyclopedia. And in the news somehow they don’t talk about their future fate. Here I am writing and recalling that from this "black man", from his "shooting", riots began in some of the states. There was a lot of news on this subject. And far from all, all was quiet. There the National Guard had to intervene. Do you remember?
  • Dante Alighieri 20 February 2020 17: 53 New
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    Revolution is millions of victims and ruined fates

    A jacket is a jacket. A revolution is a chance, a chance to change something in its existence. Change if not your life, so at least the lives of your children for the better. But if it’s prettier for you to eat from the belly at the expense of the future, if you want to leave behind a dried up and trampled desert, then yes - revolution is not your method
    1. Tank jacket 20 February 2020 18: 09 New
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      You had a chance in 1991 III ......
      In the "Holy Nineties" Killed 30 million people of the USSR.wassat
      1. Dante Alighieri 20 February 2020 18: 35 New
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        Nope, I didn’t have this chance, at that moment I was only in the plan, so everyone decided for me. They decided that my country, which my grandfathers built and defended in the crucible of the 20-40s, had to die for some reason and not at all so that my peers and I could be born and survive, but just so that someone would it’s convenient to cut public good without being embarrassed by the Chekists who turned away so successfully and on time, who turned a blind eye to what was happening for a certain percentage. And every morning, driving along entire blocks of factories that were permanently stopped in order to earn a piece of bread, I regret with great sorrow that I did not have the chance to experience the chance you are talking about. The longer we wait for the next, the more so the government itself is doing everything possible to implement this scenario. I'm patient, I'll wait. But when the time comes, be sure I will not reflect and smear the intellectual snot, but I will do according to the testament of my ancestors, who once showed the world the true power of the masses in their destructive and creative principles. As Paul Robson sang:

        If you see me coming, you better step aside,
        A lot of men didn't and a lot of men died.
        My one fist is iron, the other one's steel,
        And if the left don't getcha, then the right one will
    2. Dart2027 20 February 2020 20: 17 New
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      Quote: Dante
      A revolution is a chance, a chance to change something in its existence. Change if not your life, so at least the lives of your children for the better.

      Provided that these children do not perish so that none of the parents and bones will not find them, at least to bury humanly.
      1. Dante Alighieri 20 February 2020 20: 50 New
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        Well, you are something like me or like all the participants in this forum, clearly not the descendants of those who disappeared without a trace. And so ... life is a very varied and unpredictable thing. Who, for example, will guarantee that you will get out of bed tomorrow? None. No one will give anyone any guarantees whatsoever, but this does not mean that you should not try. In the end, where we were as if we didn’t dare to put our hand into the fire. Burned yes, no doubt. But they also gained the experience necessary to turn fire into their ally and the main tool that exalted us above other living beings. So the very first revolution took place. No one knew what this would lead to, but take a look around, now we launch rockets into space and fission atoms with our lust. What is stopping you, following the example of your ancestors, from making the revolution your instrument, directing it to exalt the very best aspects of our society and burn out its most base manifestations?

        And about the alleged mass victims of this process ... often remember Mark Twain, who reasonably noted that the lie is divided into large, small and statistics, because if we summarize all the official population losses for the first half of the 20th century to the size of this population the beginning of well-known events, we should have ended long ago (even taking into account the birth rate, which in difficult post-revolutionary conditions, as modern researchers try to present us with, should be quite modest and not capable of full to compensate for the loss of population), but somehow this did not happen. Not thanks, but contrary - you answer me, and I will say that the cockroaches in my apartment also once tried to live and breed despite, but I still won. So this scheme does not work here. Only the state fostering conditions conducive to childbearing, the most important of which is the formation of confidence among the population in the future and the relatively equitable redistribution of resources, is the main guarantee for the growth of the human population. But such a state could not appear during the bloody revolutionary massacre? Or could it?
        1. Dart2027 20 February 2020 21: 03 New
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          Quote: Dante
          Who, for example, will guarantee that you will get out of bed tomorrow? None.
          Here is just the likelihood that this will happen when there is no bloody slaughter around much higher.
          Quote: Dante
          No one knew what this would lead to, but look back, now we
          We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know. As for rockets and atom, then in other countries there were no revolutions.
          Quote: Dante
          for if we summarize all the official loss of population for the first half of the 20th century to the size of this very population at the beginning of known events
          A source?
          1. Dante Alighieri 20 February 2020 21: 59 New
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            We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know

            You confuse cause and effect. Perestroika and everything that followed it were not products of the Great October Revolution, but were its counterparties aimed at eliminating all the achievements of the October Revolution. And by the way, the current head of state (hello pension reform) systematically continues this policy.
            As for rockets and atom, then in other countries there were no revolutions

            But what about the French or English bourgeois revolutions? And the American revolution and the struggle for independence? There, too, blood was shed in abundance. But this was so long ago and not with us, why mention everything? In addition, many of the achievements of science and society, such as universal suffrage or the same peaceful and not very atom, became possible only because one young, but very innovative country in the East was the first to implement principles that were very harmful from a conservative position, leading to fermentation minds already in the West itself, and to stop its ideological expansion and economic power could only be something particularly powerful.
            A source?

            Ren TV? Voice of America? Baba Zina from the next entrance? What other sources do you need? Or do you think that I, especially for searching arguments in the middle of the night, quickly drove to the archive of the regional library and re-read a couple of archived volumes of that period? Of course, I exaggerate, but I have always been struck by such questions.

            The most common figures say that at the beginning of the 20th century, 110 million people lived in Russia, the figure is not accurate because registration of the peasant population, i.e. the overwhelming majority of the population of the Empire was very badly conducted and mainly based on parish books, which were not even in all parishes, to say nothing about the registration of the Muslim population. Excluding the failed Japanese campaign, during the First World War, Russia lost either 3 (this figure is on the monument erected by emigrants in present-day Serbia, although this figure most likely takes into account only soldier’s losses), or 8 million people (this already the data of Soviet historians who cannot be trusted because of their bias as we know). Then the revolution - according to the most well-established opinion, another minus 21 million people. The Holodomor in the Volga region and Ukraine is another minus from 3 to 7 million people. (the numbers vary on the side of the Russian-Ukrainian border you are on). And finally, the Great Patriotic War - from 28 to 36 million dead, the exact number is again unknown. So, according to the most approximate estimates, at least half of the population perished in various kinds of social cataclysms. Moreover, according to statistics (which I am still a profanity, I can confirm this to you as a person close to state institutions) the birth rate in that period was not so very. Up to the present period, 6 the planets of capitalist relations certainly do not reach, but Somalia is also far away (probably in the early Union they lived worse than in the poorest country in the African continent). There would be no revolution, there would not be all these losses - you say. There is such a possibility. Approximately 50 to 50. But what exactly would be is a semblance of Victorian England with complete lack of rights for everyone who has money and influence, into which the modern world is slipping, no longer living under the fear of the spread of the red communist plague. And who knows which is better ...
            1. mat-vey 21 February 2020 05: 04 New
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              Quote: Dante
              We are reaping the fruits of this very revolution. Perestroika grew out of it if you are not in the know

              You confuse cause and effect.

              Everything is simpler - they confuse "revolution" and "counter-revolution".
            2. Dart2027 21 February 2020 06: 41 New
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              Quote: Dante
              Perestroika and everything that followed it were not products of the Great October Revolution, but were its counterparties aimed at
              That is, the Soviet government and the communist party that carried it out were the counterparties of the communism project?
              Quote: Dante
              But what about the French or English bourgeois revolutions? And the American revolution and the struggle for independence?
              Was there a revolution in Germany too? Or in Japan? And to confuse the struggle for independence with the revolution is generally the finish.
              Quote: Dante
              What other sources do you need? Or do you think I'm specifically for looking for arguments in the middle of the night
              That is, all this is taken from the head and there is nothing concrete.
              Quote: Dante
              But what exactly would be is a semblance of Victorian England with the complete lack of rights of everyone in front of those who have money and influence

              I wonder what would happen to a mere mortal who would cross the road to an influential party leader in the USSR?
              1. would 22 February 2020 15: 00 New
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                Was there a revolution in Germany too? Or in Japan? And to confuse the struggle for independence with the revolution is generally the finish.


                1. There was more than one revolution in Germany. The closest to us is the November Revolution of 1918, which ended with the Weimar Republic.
                2. In Japan, after the war, Bosin was a Meiji restoration which was a real revolution from above. It fundamentally changed the structure of the country and it is believed that it was the leap that transferred Japan from the Middle Ages to the New Time, turned the backward country into a modern state.
                3. You are mistaken in believing that the war for independence and revolution are opposite phenomena. The war for US independence ended in an absolute change in the state system, for example, from the US colony became a presidential republic. This is a revolution - a way of transition from a historically obsolete socio-economic formation to a more progressive, radical qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society.

                As Lenin himself wrote

                The history of modern, civilized America opens with one of those great, truly liberating, truly revolutionary wars, which were so few among the vast mass of predatory wars caused by a fight between kings, landowners, capitalists because of the division of the seized lands or looted profits. It was a war of the American people against the English robbers who oppressed and kept America in colonial slavery.


                So before you write something, you should study the topic yourself.
                1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 21 New
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                  Quote: rait
                  Closest to us is the November Revolution of 1918 which ended
                  In fact, this revolution was just a consequence of a lost war, and the Germans had scientific and technological achievements before that.
                  Quote: rait
                  In Japan, after the war, Bosin was a Meiji restoration which was a real revolution from above.
                  Simply put, the government solved its problems, and it was just those who tried to rebel who lost.
                  Quote: rait
                  You are mistaken in believing that the war for independence and revolution are opposite phenomena. The war for US independence ended in an absolute change in the state system, for example, from the US colony became a presidential republic.
                  And the fact that any successful war of independence means a transition from a colony to one’s own state is not obvious?
                  Quote: rait
                  caused by a fight between kings, landowners, capitalists due to the division of the seized lands or looted profits
                  And because of what they began to rebel? Yes, because of money and nothing else. A historical fact that Lenin apparently did not know.
                  1. would 22 February 2020 17: 38 New
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                    Well, here we go to a sharp change of shoes.

                    Generally this revolution was just a consequence of a lost war, and the Germans had scientific and technological achievements even before that.


                    Suddenly it turns out that there was still a revolution in Germany. How so? You had doubted this before! The following is not related to the topic of discussion. And no, missiles and atom as a result of this revolution did not appear directly. Guess what events they appeared in, or tell me?

                    Simply put, the government solved its problems, and it was just those who tried to rebel who lost.


                    It depends on whom you mean by "power." In the end, the people and the state won, not just a handful of elites. But again, the revolution you doubted was again.

                    And the fact that any successful war of independence means a transition from a colony to one’s own state is not obvious?


                    Not for you. You claim that someone confused two different phenomena - the war for independence and revolution. In your opinion, "this is generally the finish line."

                    And because of what they began to rebel? Yes, because of money and nothing else. A historical fact that Lenin apparently did not know.


                    Again, you can trace your low level of education. Lenin knew perfectly well that they were rebelling as you put it because of money, or more precisely, the distribution of economic goods. Because communism, from the very beginning, was built around the issue of the distribution of economic goods, all left-wing labor movements are rebelling because of the distribution of economic goods or, as you primitively put it, “money”. And Lenin conducted his activities for the same reason.
                    1. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 46 New
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                      Quote: rait
                      Suddenly it turns out that there was still a revolution in Germany. How so? You had doubted this before!
                      Forgot the word revolution in quotation marks.
                      Quote: rait
                      It depends on whom you mean by "power."
                      Those who ruled the country and carried out reforms that they considered necessary.
                      Quote: rait
                      But again, the revolution you doubted was again.
                      In this case, write in the revolutionaries Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.
                      Quote: rait
                      You claim that someone confused two different phenomena - the war for independence and revolution.
                      Please indicate where it is said that this is one and the same.
                      Quote: rait
                      Again, you can trace your low level of education. Lenin knew perfectly well that they were rebelling as you put it because of money, or more precisely, the distribution of economic goods. Because communism is built around the issue from the very beginning.
                      Simply put, another fight over money, which they tried to attach to the theory that someday there would be no need for money at all.
                    2. would 22 February 2020 18: 19 New
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                      In this case, write in the revolutionaries Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.


                      Honestly, I don’t remember how about Grozny (not my historical period), but Peter considers modern history to be a revolutionary and explains very well why. You still read the history book, it will be useful.

                      Please indicate where it is said that this is one and the same.


                      You still decide. First you have incompatible things, then one follows from the other (and this is right), now it’s gone again and I need to indicate something.

                      Simply put, another fight over money, which they tried to attach to the theory that someday there would be no need for money at all.


                      And because of something else in the history of modern mankind there have been revolutions and military conflicts? All of them were because of values. And no matter in what form they were hides, women, gold, paper money, private ownership of the means of production - all these are values.

                      So about the missiles and nuclear reactors, since you did not answer, I will explain. They appeared in Germany not as a result of the revolution, but as a result of the Nazis coming to power with their aggressive ideology and, of course, the ensuing war. And after the country, the winners eagerly snatched everything they could from the remnants of these developments. Of course, the November revolution was part of a large chain of events that led to this, but only part. And most importantly, despite the terrible defeat in World War II, Germany is still one of the most advanced states to this day.
                    3. Dante Alighieri 22 February 2020 19: 35 New
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                      Thank you so much rait for the enlightening work you have done. I admit, a couple of times I was trying to answer Dart's comments, but for the last few days I was sewing up at work, so there was absolutely no strength and desire to answer something so odious. I am glad that there are still educated people on the site who are able to explain to others in detail and without unnecessary emotional outbursts why their point of view is untenable and crumbles upon closer examination good

                      Especially thanks for clarifying Dartu regarding revolutions in Japan, Germany and the USA. Directly removed from the tongue. I would also add that the revolution in Japan by many researchers is not called such only because the institution of the emperor in Japan at the time of Tokugawa’s reign, Yoshinobu already existed, and therefore, from the point of view of political institutions, no revolutionary changes allegedly took place, and all events were only expressed in the redistribution of power between various power structures. But at the same time they forget that it was the return of power to Emperor Mutsihito that triggered the accelerated planting of capitalist relations in the country, because it was vitally necessary to deprive that part of the samurai that opposed the imperial court, their main economic base in the person of the results of the labor of peasant allotments. And as we know, the transition from one form of management to another is called nothing more than a revolution. I hope dear Dart understands this now.

                      Regarding the perturbation that the data cited by me, I quote
                      taken from the head and there is nothing concrete under them.
                      I will answer the following: all this is taken not just from the head, but from the memory. I understand that the Internet has too much for you and understanding how a person can rely on their own knowledge without resorting to the help of "authoritative" sources is no longer available to you, but I assure you that with the proper level of knowledge, this is quite feasible. And there is no doubt that I have such a quality: back in school, I repeatedly won prizes in Olympiads on Russian history, winning regional, city and regional competitions more than once. Apparently therefore, I have written only 65 points in history and attempted to prove my point (for example, to convince teachers that the Trans-Siberian Railway was laid by Alexander 3, and not Nikolai 2, who at that time, being a prince, only drove a symbolic nail into a railroad tie at the station under construction in Vladivostok , on which he ended up returning from an international tour) ended in a fiasco. Nevertheless, I entered the institute and even graduated with honors from a specialty and a master's degree in a subject located at the intersection of history and a number of social sciences. During his studies, he was repeatedly published in scientific journals on various topics. In total, in my personal account there are about 20 works indexed in the RSCI system, and 2 publications in the journals of the All-Russian Certification Commission. Therefore, I believe that my level of knowledge and competencies allows me not to resort to an additional source at the first request of a trembling public. In addition, I remind you that one of the 10 commandments directly states: “Do not make yourself an idol,” and therefore I consider the excessive observance of “authoritative sources” to be a crime against divine conduct. I’m joking, of course, and I have many favorite authors whom I repeatedly cited as experts in support of my arguments, not to mention the fact that to some extent I highlighted some research works analyzing their works to the best of my ability. All this, of course, does not make me a bearer of some sacred knowledge, but I am not going to prove the truth of my statements further, especially since they are easily verified empirically. As the saying goes: "Seek and build up." And as soon as you try on the mantle of a prosecutor, I leave the right to collect evidence base solely on your shoulders. I hope during the search, you will learn a lot for yourself. hi

                      Do not be offended, I do not have any prejudices towards you and only wish you not to be so categorical towards people and their capabilities wink
                    4. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 50 New
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                      Quote: Dante
                      And as we know, the transition from one form of management to another is called nothing more than a revolution.
                      And revolution is called scientific and technological progress.
                      A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power. We can say that, for example, Newton was a revolutionary in science, but this has nothing to do with politics.
                    5. would 23 February 2020 10: 44 New
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                      A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power


                      It is recommended to study at least the Great Soviet Encyclopedia in order to find out what revolution is and not use the wrong interpretation. For example, in Ukraine there was a forceful overthrow of the existing government, but there was no revolution.

                      Why? What revolution did he make?


                      As they say in school textbooks, "cut a window to Europe."

                      the fact that in Germany there were scientists and engineers.


                      And again a mistake. There can be as many scientists and engineers as possible, but there will be no research until the existing government makes them a priority, brings these scientists together and gives them the appropriate resources.
                    6. Dart2027 23 February 2020 12: 58 New
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                      Quote: rait
                      what is revolution
                      Revolution is a radical transformation in any area of ​​human activity.
                      Quote: rait
                      For example, in Ukraine there was a forceful overthrow of the existing government, but there was no revolution.
                      Really? Why?
                      Quote: rait
                      hacked a window to Europe
                      And does that make him a revolutionary? I remember about the window to Europe, but the revolution is something new.
                      Quote: rait
                      There may be as many scientists and engineers as possible, but there will be no research as long as
                      Nevertheless, somehow managed. By the beginning of WWI, Germany was a very developed country.
                    7. would 23 February 2020 13: 02 New
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                      And once again we see shoe change

                      First

                      A revolution in the context of a dispute is a forceful overthrow of existing power


                      after

                      Revolution is a radical transformation in any area of ​​human activity.


                      Significantly.

                      Really? Why?


                      Because there has not been a fundamental qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society. Individuals in power just changed.

                      And does that make him a revolutionary? I remember about the window to Europe, but the revolution is something new.


                      It was necessary to learn history at school.

                      Nevertheless, somehow managed


                      Without "somehow," the Nazis came to power and did everything. Because for them, these studies were a priority.
                    8. Dart2027 24 February 2020 15: 35 New
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                      Quote: rait
                      And once again we see
                      Inability to understand what is read. The definition of the word revolution, as such, is one thing. Its concrete application in context is another.
                      Quote: rait
                      Because there has not been a fundamental qualitative revolution in the entire socio-economic structure of society.
                      Really? Somewhere 80% of the economy flew into the chimney, there is a war, the reputation in the world is such that the President of Somalia (!!!) scares his fellow citizens with Ukraine - is that not a transformation?
              2. Dante Alighieri 23 February 2020 18: 40 New
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                And revolution is called scientific and technological progress.

                They call it when its results fundamentally affect the ways of carrying out economic and economic activity, which then affects the socio-political structure of society. Roughly speaking, the assertion of capitalism was not so much due to the fact that new scientific discoveries appeared, but because the introduction of these technologies entailed a deepening of the division of labor, stretching of the production chain to create more technically complex goods, which in turn entailed additional risks for manufacturers that a failure may occur at some stage. New regulatory institutions began to take on these risks. At the same time, there was a process of self-identification of the mentioned elements as a separate political group, whose interests were different from the interests of the ruling class, i.e. feudal lords. As soon as there were enough of such new elements so that they themselves could claim the main role in the decision-making process, a revolution took place. This is a very simplified scenario, which nevertheless clearly demonstrates how difficult it is to determine the root cause of the fundamental transformations in society. Another example from a closer historical period. The emergence of mass communication has led to the emergence of the masses in the political arena as a political actor, because reducing the time to make decisions has significantly reduced the time costs of the production process, freeing up a significant amount of labor and reducing labor costs for others. Something had to be done with all these people. For the former, the question of survival has become more acute than ever, for the latter, what to do with the time it has taken. In addition, now everyone was informed about certain actions of the ruling elite and was able to characterize and evaluate them. For the time being, this was not a problem, but after the October Revolution, in Western countries there was an understanding that it would no longer be possible to ignore this factor. To please the masses, the draft of the dominant model of democracy was revised taking into account the need to approve universal suffrage, already implemented in the USSR at that time, but unlike the Soviet Union in the West, the main consumer of this transformation was not a wide and largely marginalized population, but a certain sample of them, which is usually called the "middle class". Is it a revolution? No, because the ruling class managed to maintain its position, although it had to make significant concessions: limit their own appetites, form social elevators and even move a bit in order to allow representatives of the masses into politics. Moreover, all this happened under the influence of the Russian factor and was aimed at suppressing a more negative scenario for the ruling elite, when it loses absolutely all its dividends. As we see in this case, scientific and technological progress, although it affected the way of managing, did not lead to radical restructuring (at least not everywhere). Although it can be said that capitalism simply proved to be much more adaptive than its predecessor, feudalism. In any case, when discussing how well you live in the West, do not forget who made this possible.
              3. Dart2027 24 February 2020 15: 36 New
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                Quote: Dante
                Called when its results fundamentally affect

                In fact, any discovery that fundamentally changes the idea of ​​any science is called a "revolution in ..." But again, politics has nothing to do with it.
        2. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 47 New
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          Quote: rait
          Honestly, I don’t remember how about Grozny (not my historical period), but Peter considers modern history to be a revolutionary and explains very well why.
          Why? What revolution did he make?
          Quote: rait
          First you have incompatible things, then one follows from the other (and now this is right)
          Where should A revolution is when inside the country, in one’s circle, and when with someone else’s it is no longer a revolution. Is it clear now?
          Quote: rait
          So about the missiles and nuclear reactors, since you did not answer, I will explain. They appeared in Germany not as a result of the revolution, but as a result
          the fact that in Germany there were scientists and engineers. Moreover, the German scientific and engineering schools were created before, after the WWI, Germany began ... strange, to say the least. So for the development of the revolution are not required.
  • Campanella 22 February 2020 16: 49 New
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    The power of Yeltsin and his last ones are the same millions of victims and destroyed destinies ...
  • Andrey VOV 19 February 2020 12: 26 New
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    At one time they snuck around with the Narodnaya Volya and others and got the result .... everybody almost the second at the trial tried to torture me, oh I'm so miserable ... tried ... yeah ... I saw those .... myself who you want they will try
    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 28 New
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      every second almost in court taldychit tortured me


      laughing yes cool video about torture "Network". Very tragic, the intensity of torture is forbidden
      1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 13: 49 New
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        minus the wet revolutionaries for their twin, and the video is cool :(

        1. Imperial Technocrat 19 February 2020 19: 18 New
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          They are guilty. There must be a death penalty. 20 years is still too soft
    2. tihonmarine 19 February 2020 12: 34 New
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      Quote: Andrey VOV
      everybody almost the second in court taldychit tortured me, oh I'm so miserable .. tried.

      Lawyers gave clear instructions on what to say. And then "the whole world democracy" will be connected. Oh, what a howl the guzmans will now raise, the harmless Akhejakovs, human rights activists will shout “they live”, and there’s no need to talk about the West.
      1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 15: 37 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine
        Oh, what a howl the guzmans will now raise, the harmless Akhejakovs, human rights activists will shout “they are children”,

        So I think they will not come running. Because it’s the red ones. And about the "red" in our "patriots" and system liberals, love and kisses on the gums.
      2. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 04 New
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        Quote: tihonmarine
        about the west and do not need to talk.

        There really is no need to talk about the West. He doesn’t give a shit more or less who is torturing someone from the Russians. They only come to life when a pusher, like Browder, appears on a topic. No one has any interest in torture.
    3. Vladimir_2U 19 February 2020 12: 35 New
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      Leftists do not need a damn thing, but rot in the country is visible to the naked eye, since boobies are trying on weapons, and this is according to law enforcement agencies, but there are doubts about their honesty.
      1. Operator 19 February 2020 13: 50 New
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        Is your surname Guzman?
        1. Vladimir_2U 20 February 2020 03: 55 New
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          No, and yours is not Vasilyeva, who is Eugene? So, as a visible example of justice.
  • Gardamir 19 February 2020 12: 33 New
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    How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.
    And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?
    1. Andrey VOV 19 February 2020 12: 40 New
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      Here is your essence again, there are specific people convicted of a specific crime, no. In blah blah blah, blah stole billions, about nothing .. who stole when, how much ... everything is clear and simple way, time, place .. as constantly as the bububububa mantra .. plundered ... and everything else
      1. Gardamir 19 February 2020 13: 51 New
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        The crime was only planned ... Or not. Well try to treat with understanding.
        Billions? Yes, at least the same Zakharchenko.
        However, everything is clear with theft. Remember Kakulova, did you steal? This is the case, so go dancing. She sang, danced and decided that she was innocent.
        1. Paranoid50 21 February 2020 00: 20 New
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          Quote: Gardamir
          The crime was only planned ...

          You can get a fuck ... wassat Okay, last try. So, to a hypothetical gardamir there is a terrible hostility to a hypothetical ill-wisher (let’s omit the reasons for the hostility), who is training hard with the goal of maximally effectively transferring the aforementioned gardamir from a living state to the exact opposite.
          And everything, it seems, goes according to his plan, but for some reason the crime breaks down and he is knit. And the villain on the bench in the courtroom - it comes to the verdict, but the villain's lawyer (s) comes in, who says that there was no crime, because everything collapsed at the preparation stage. Immediately there is a public outcry, connect law enforcerswho demand to free this organism from the courtroom with the above motivation. fellow I am sure that there is no need to describe the emotions and aspirations of a hypothetical gardamir at that moment. yes And instead of the epilogue:
          The most expensive thing in the world is human stupidity, because you have to pay the most for it ...(C)
      2. Revival 19 February 2020 15: 13 New
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        The case of Vasilieva.
        Where are the 18 years of the colony? It's about billions
        1. mat-vey 21 February 2020 05: 07 New
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          Quote: Revival
          The case of Vasilieva.
          Where are the 18 years of the colony? It's about billions

          So there, and to the detriment of defense, let's say streamlined not unambiguously ..
          1. Revival 21 February 2020 11: 23 New
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            The theft of such amounts, when there is "no money" in retirement, should itself stretch for 20 years.
            But, please treat with understanding ...
            1. mat-vey 21 February 2020 11: 24 New
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              We understand .... we understand .... we understand very ...
    2. mat-vey 19 February 2020 12: 43 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.

      Well, again, practical training in applied history.
    3. Arlen 19 February 2020 13: 10 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      How all together rushed to denounce! Right 37th, some found enemies, others condemn.
      And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?

      I.V. Stalin
      “When they catch a spy or traitor, the public’s indignation knows no bounds, it requires execution. And when a thief wields in front of everyone, plundering state property, the surrounding public is limited to good-natured chuckles and patting on the shoulder. Meanwhile, it is clear that a thief who plunders national property and digging into the interests of the national economy, there is the same spy and traitor, if not worse. "
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 06 New
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        Quote: Arlen
        there is the same spy and traitor, if not worse

        58th tractor drivers.
        1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 16: 22 New
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          Is it for a joke. "For spikelets" notorious - Decree seven to eight.
    4. lukewarm 19 February 2020 15: 40 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      And what to do with those who rob the country for billions?

      "Understand and forgive" © A.R. Bearded man. After all, they rob just "" us. But they do not encroach on the system. It has become so. Well, when the shores lose, so be it, roll up the prisoners. And if they don’t want to share assets, then they’re sitting. How does the fish ghoul Jura Lastochkin sit.
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 10 New
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        Quote: unwillingly
        sitting Rybinsk ghoul Yura Lastochkin.

        Do not go, girls, to mayors, - nothing good. In the Yaroslavl region in general, with mayors a heap has passed.
        1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 10: 39 New
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          Well, Yura has been sitting for a long time, to be honest. By the way, many residents sympathize with him. The fact that a thief and a ghoul somehow quickly forgets the people. The business owner was strong. Allegedly, he lived better with him. HZ. It was never good. If you can’t do it yourself. And what else is wrong with the mayors in the Yaroslavl region. I live in it, but I do not follow. Xe Constitution Yes Geopolitics laughing "Starteg" (self-irony)
          1. Octopus 20 February 2020 10: 58 New
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            Quote: unwillingly
            what else is wrong with the mayors in the Yaroslavl region

            Have you forgotten Urlashov? Nemtsov, by the way, the deceased, was also a Yaroslavl deputy.
            1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 13: 27 New
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              Well yes. Forgot for prescription. I thought I missed something more fresh. Nemtsov, yes, he was. Well, they arranged a hotbed of liberalism and right-wing forces.
  • vanavatny 19 February 2020 12: 38 New
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    a hundred years ago, it already began, for the sake of self-preservation, the state (government) needs to act tough, it’s a pity that this is the only lesson learned by the powerful, which means that inevitably the emergence of battle groups is no longer from self-taught, in general, nothing happens that is not inevitable consequence of already done (or not done, contrary to promises)
    1. Bashkirkhan 19 February 2020 12: 43 New
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      The tsarist government also did not suffer from great humanism towards those students. Another thing is that the process of growth and aggravation of contradictions is quite objective, and therefore rushed in the 17th. As well as before and after, the point here is not enthusiastic students, but that there are great contradictions in society. That is, this flywheel was launched not by young people who were ready to sacrifice themselves, but by the then-power by the Romanovs. The situation of the people. His poverty and lack of rights. The pricelessness of their lives and families. Bloody and immoral reprisals of the ruling class against workers and peasants. Hundreds of books are described by eyewitnesses of those events. If this were not so, the Bolsheviks who came to power would never have found such support from the people.
      1. Military77 19 February 2020 12: 54 New
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        And with all this - a lot of weapons from these disgruntled people who are ready to use it.
      2. Dart2027 19 February 2020 13: 27 New
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        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        The tsarist government also did not suffer from great humanism towards those students.

        With those who committed the killings?
        1. mat-vey 19 February 2020 13: 38 New
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          Well, it seemed like nothing happened with the Lensky execution, oh yes there are no students there ...
          1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 14: 52 New
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            Quote: mat-vey
            oh yes there are no students

            So you still know that?
            Quote: mat-vey
            with the Lensky execution it seems like nothing happened

            Which one? There were two of them.
            1. mat-vey 19 February 2020 16: 03 New
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              On May 28, 1996, the Vostochno-Sibirskaya Pravda newspaper published an article entitled “Two Lena executions”, in which, citing case No. 7912 from the FSB archive in the Irkutsk Region, it stated that in 1938, 948 were executed by the Troika’s sentence in the city of Bodaibo workers of the Lena goldfields [23]. The events described in the article do not find confirmation in historical sources, links to the source of the article and case No. 7912 have not been established, which does not allow to judge the reliability of the information.
              1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 16: 43 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                references to the source of the article and case No. 7912 not established

                That is, there is no refutation.
                As for the actions of captain Treschenkov, it would be interesting for me to listen to his point of view. These events have always been presented only from the point of view of one side.
                1. mat-vey 19 February 2020 16: 53 New
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                  Those. no confirmation. Do you think that the gendarme captain took the initiative? But what about subordination and length of service?
                  1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 17: 28 New
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                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Do you think that the gendarme captain took the initiative?

                    And for you, the news that at that time there was no modern means of communication, in principle, and the only way to contact someone was a telegraph? That is, until the message is taken there, until it is delivered to the addressee, until the addressee sends his message ... And, by the way, the peacefulness of the demonstration, which the same question is so fond of saying. If the crowd ignores orders to stop, then what should those who are in front of it do? Riot police trained to act in such situations, then the same was not.
                    1. mat-vey 19 February 2020 17: 34 New
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                      Do you know how long this incident lasted?
                      1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 20: 51 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        You know how long this incident lasted.

                        That is, the workers walked for several hours? And where?
                      2. mat-vey 20 February 2020 05: 23 New
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                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        You know how long this incident lasted.

                        That is, the workers walked for several hours? And where?

                        At the Lena mines.
                      3. Dart2027 20 February 2020 06: 49 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        At the Lena mines

                        And where did they go there? I read that they were walking along the village, which was either a large village, or a small city.
                      4. mat-vey 20 February 2020 07: 39 New
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                        You need to read more, more. For a start, at least what is the Lena mines.
                      5. Dart2027 20 February 2020 12: 07 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        what is the Lena mines

                        И что же?
                      6. mat-vey 20 February 2020 12: 50 New
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                        Well, look here, for one thing you could find out where and from where to "go".
                      7. Dart2027 20 February 2020 14: 15 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        for one about where and from where to "go"

                        So where and where?
                      8. mat-vey 20 February 2020 14: 22 New
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                        And what did you read about it? On what settlement did you go, where did you go in the village, did you go to whom in the settlement, when did you go in the settlement, where did you come from to the settlement.
                      9. Dart2027 20 February 2020 16: 59 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Which locality were

                        The city of Bodaibo. Now you know.
                      10. mat-vey 20 February 2020 17: 11 New
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                        And where did they go? And to whom did they go? When did they go? Where did they go?
                      11. Dart2027 20 February 2020 20: 17 New
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                        They walked around the city.
                      12. mat-vey 21 February 2020 04: 58 New
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                        Now, if you hadn’t flood like a vulgar troll here, you would have easily found that by no means Badoibo, but to the Nadezhdinsky mine.
                        And from where did they go? And to whom did they go? When did they go? Where did they go? - although you may not answer, there is only one flood from you.
                      13. Dart2027 21 February 2020 06: 55 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        that for no Badoibo, but at the Nadezhda mine

                        So did they live in the city or right at the mine? If at the mine, then where did you go?
                      14. mat-vey 21 February 2020 07: 00 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, look here, for one thing you could find out where and from where to "go".
                      15. Dart2027 21 February 2020 09: 37 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, here's a look, for one thing about where and from where to "go" you could find out

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Riot police trained to act in such situations, then the same was not.
                      16. mat-vey 21 February 2020 09: 43 New
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                        So where did they go then? Read, find out? And what a coincidence, right before toughening, so to speak, labor and life, the gendarme team was increased to 340 people ..
                      17. Dart2027 21 February 2020 15: 57 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        So where did they go then?

                        Tell me, where did you go?
                      18. mat-vey 21 February 2020 16: 19 New
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                        Do you categorically refuse to read?
                      19. Dart2027 21 February 2020 18: 52 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And read

                        I don’t know what you are reading. For example, it says that they were captured at the stage of preparation for the attacks. Well, since it was rather difficult to justify outright terrorists, they tried to divert the conversation on the murky history of 100 years ago.
                      20. mat-vey 22 February 2020 05: 38 New
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                        I read your answer about "royal power".
                        And you immediately rushed to protect the Gunzburgs.
                      21. Dart2027 22 February 2020 06: 31 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        I read your answer about "royal power"
                        And they tried to divert the conversation to LR.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, it seems like nothing happened with the Lensky execution, oh yes there are no students
                      22. mat-vey 22 February 2020 06: 45 New
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                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I read your answer about "royal power"
                        And they tried to divert the conversation to LR.

                        Do you always judge those around you?
                        Or is an attempt to divert to "royal authority" a tribute to the patriarchal foundations?
                      23. Dart2027 22 February 2020 08: 12 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you always judge those around you?

                        So did I talk about RI?
                      24. mat-vey 22 February 2020 08: 18 New
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                        And why are the "claims" to me? Or do you still agree that humanism does not apply to non-students?
                      25. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 23 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And why "claims" to me?
                        So you started talking about LR.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Or do you still agree that humanism does not apply to non-students?
                        It does not apply to those who prepared the attacks, regardless of the sauce with which they cook them.
                      26. mat-vey 22 February 2020 17: 25 New
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                        Why do you dislike LR? And with what sauce did the Lena workers prepare a terrorist attack?
                      27. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 47 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And with what sauce did Lena workers prepare a terrorist attack?
                        Well, if the fact that they expressed their intentions by force to free the arrested innocent prank, then probably not.
                      28. mat-vey 22 February 2020 17: 48 New
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                        Which conclusion of which commission was reflected?
                      29. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 50 New
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                        Quote: mat-vey
                        This is the conclusion of which of the commissions

                        http://elib.shpl.ru/pages/3110721/zooms/7
                    2. Octopus 22 February 2020 20: 13 New
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                      Quote: Dart2027
                      force to free the arrested innocent prank, then probably not.

                      And on what basis were they arrested?
                    3. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 51 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      And on what basis were they arrested?

                      Public order disturbance.
                    4. Octopus 22 February 2020 22: 57 New
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                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Public order disturbance.

                      This "order" in your misanthropic world is shooting at people. In mine - the impossibility of such shooting.
                    5. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 59 New
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                      Quote: Octopus
                      This is the "order" in your mesanthropic world - it is shooting at people. In my

                      When bandits shoot at people. You already wrote.
                    6. Octopus 22 February 2020 23: 04 New
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                      Quote: Dart2027
                      When bandits shoot at people. You already wrote.

                      No, I didn’t write this. I wrote that I distinguish between bandits and non-bandits by business, and not by clothing.
                    7. mat-vey 23 February 2020 04: 38 New
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                      In the report of the commission, which is so fond of mentioning here, they opened fire on a crowd that just wasn’t going anywhere, and handed in applications for the release of the arrested elected to Tulchinsky, since the prosecutor did not accept the collective petition, but demanded from each individual and they were found later more than 400. Many stood with their backs to the shooters, and some generally sat on piles of sleepers.
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 17 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    the crowd ignores orders to stop, then what should those who are in front of it do?

    And why on earth would the gendarme give any "orders to the crowd"? What else is the boss? Where did it come from?

    You see what the matter is. Is it possible that the shabbat workers pogromed and burned the McDonald's, and the gendarmes stopped them? Of course available. But we know that when the pogroms did occur, the gendarmes did not mind. Therefore, the dogs of the regime were right or not specifically in Lensk - they already had a reputation for what they are.
    1. mat-vey 20 February 2020 08: 39 New
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      And I liked the telegraph, it means how to lead the security forces - slowly, but the fact that in the newspapers the next day in the evening is normal.
    2. Dart2027 20 February 2020 12: 10 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      but the fact that in the evening the next day in the newspapers

      What's so surprising? The press has always reacted very quickly to various chernukha-sensation.
    3. mat-vey 20 February 2020 12: 52 New
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      Yes, yes, the magazine already had satellite phones ...
    4. Dart2027 20 February 2020 14: 16 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      Yes, yes the magazine

      There was NO bureaucracy.
    5. mat-vey 20 February 2020 14: 21 New
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      But the captain was so brave that the bureaucracy was not afraid. Definitely a hero.
    6. Dart2027 20 February 2020 17: 00 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      And the captain was

      The person who had to decide here and now, because he was a senior.
    7. mat-vey 20 February 2020 17: 12 New
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      Yes, there was a whole commission from the governor. Well, it’s easy to finish off the wounded just what you can’t do without it.
    8. Dart2027 20 February 2020 20: 19 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      Yes, there was a whole commission from the governor

      Of the security forces?
      Quote: mat-vey
      Well, to kill the wounded

      Did they finish them off?
    9. mat-vey 21 February 2020 05: 01 New
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      Why, the prosecutor is not a security official?
      Well, if - "They shot the workers crawling back without stopping.", Not finishing ....
    10. Dart2027 21 February 2020 07: 02 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      Why, the prosecutor is not a security official?

      And then he commanded the gendarmes?
      Quote: mat-vey
      not finishing

      According to eyewitnesses, it is generally not clear whether they either finished off anyone, or left them, or immediately sent them to hospitals.
    11. mat-vey 21 February 2020 07: 09 New
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      You are aware of what it is - "M. V. D. Main Directorate of the Press. Information Bureau." about "" They shot the workers crawling back without stopping. "is it from there, or do you not believe the Stolypin department?
    12. Dart2027 21 February 2020 09: 43 New
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      Quote: mat-vey
      M.V.D. General Directorate of Press. Information Bureau

      Given the fact that in the press of the time the tsar and the authorities blasphemed as they could?
      The article was published the next day and printed without any verification. The findings of the commission look much more reliable.
    13. mat-vey 21 February 2020 09: 50 New
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      "General Directorate of the Press. Information Bureau." - the mouthpiece of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Stolypin "mouthpiece" so to speak .. is that they too?
      "In the final documents of the two commissions investigating the Lensky shooting, there is no data on the number of dead, but it is said about taking evidence from the wounded in the amount of 202 people."
  • Dart2027 20 February 2020 12: 09 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    And why on earth would the gendarme give any "orders to the crowd"? What else is the boss?

    You do not know what the police and gendarmerie are? Original.
    Quote: Octopus
    But we know that when the pogroms did occur, the gendarmes did not mind.

    Oh really? I read that the pogroms were stopped just by the authorities. This is if you do not recall the fact that in this case we are not talking about Jews (are you talking about these pogroms?)
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 12: 49 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    What is the police and gendarmerie?

    The same people who were drowned in channels in the 17th? I wonder what for?
    Quote: Dart2027
    read that the pogroms stopped just by the authorities

    And they stopped, and even began a little bit.

    But we have left the topic. What exactly did the gendarmes defend by killing the Russian people who demanded from Mr. Gunzburg, Meyer, Champagne and others (effective managers "Lenzoto") of human working conditions?
  • Dart2027 20 February 2020 14: 19 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    The same people who were drowned in channels in the 17th?

    And how joyfully the people shouted down with the Soviet power in the 90s. I wonder why?
    Quote: Octopus
    What exactly did the gendarmes protect

    When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to protect yourself. There were no riot police trained to act in such a situation then.
    Quote: Octopus
    And they stopped, and even began a little bit.

    For example?
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 16: 08 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    joyfully the people shouted down with Soviet power in the 90s. I wonder why?

    For the same reason?
    Quote: Dart2027
    When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to defend yourself

    That is, Mr. Treschenkov associates put several hundred people to protect themselves. And who, in fact, threatened them? Especially personally to Treshchenkov in Irkutsk?
  • Dart2027 20 February 2020 17: 07 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    For the same reason?

    Yes, in principle, the same. Everyone decided that the authorities were unfair, that they were paid little, that working conditions were poor, etc.
    Quote: Octopus
    And who, in fact, threatened them?

    The crowd has always been a threat. But how many people died this question, because there are quite a few options. The commission found that there were 202 wounded, and there are 3-4 times fewer killed.
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 17: 50 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    Yes, in principle, the same. Everyone decided that the authorities were unfair, that they were paid little, that working conditions were poor, etc.

    Exactly. Except for the fact that in Lensk the claims were not to the authorities from the very beginning.
    Quote: Dart2027
    The crowd has always been a threat

    Threat to whom? And not always, namely in this case?
    Quote: Dart2027
    that's how many people died this question

    Yes, the Russians have a constant problem - there is no roll-call list.

    So what, say, did Treshchenkov do there? Whom and from whom did he protect by killing unarmed Russian people?
  • Dart2027 20 February 2020 20: 22 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    Exactly. Except that in Lensk, the claims were

    And what does that change? All revolutions are made under one carbon copy.
    Quote: Octopus
    Threat to whom

    Those who will be on her road.
    Quote: Octopus
    Yes, Russians have a constant problem

    That is, there are no objections.
    Quote: Octopus
    So what, say, did Treshchenkov do there

    Quote: Dart2027
    When rushing a crowd that does not want to stop, then you have to protect yourself. There were no riot police trained to act in such a situation then.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Octopus 21 February 2020 08: 35 New
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    Hmm, it seems, again double solid was drawn somewhere. Let's try again.
    Quote: Dart2027
    All revolutions are made under one carbon copy

    The revolution in the mining village?
    Quote: Dart2027
    That is, there are no objections

    That the gendarmes did not publish the names of the dead? Yes, this is a fact and this is another crime.
    Quote: Dart2027
    Those who will be on her road

    1. Who exactly suffered from this procession, except for the people killed and injured during the dispersal of the demonstration?
    2. Why on earth did the gendarme of the Irkutsk administration generally vote in the question of who goes there and where in the taiga?
    3. What did Treshchenkov do in the mines? With whom did he fight, whose interests did he defend, what were these interests?
  • Dart2027 21 February 2020 09: 46 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    The revolution in the mining village?
    As part of the overall process.
    Quote: Octopus
    That the gendarmes did not publish the names of the dead?
    But why didn’t they publish it later? In the 20s for example.
    Quote: Octopus
    Who exactly suffered from this procession
    But did you have to wait until the crowd runs into a soldier? Oh yes, you are opposed to being tried for terrorist acts before they go to the practical stage?
    Quote: Octopus
    who is there and where goes in the taiga
    Did they walk in the taiga? And what did they do there?
    Quote: Octopus
    What did Treshchenkov do in the mines?
    Worked.
  • Octopus 21 February 2020 12: 45 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    As part of the overall process

    Quote: Dart2027
    Worked

    There is such a job - to kill Russian people in view of the small Jewish gesheft. You are right, the work of Treschenkov is precisely part of the general process. As soon as the old regime handed out weapons to these very Russian people, a lot of interesting things turned out.
    Quote: Dart2027
    And it was necessary to wait until the crowd rests in a soldier

    What did the soldiers do there? Why were they needed there? To whom?
    Quote: Dart2027
    Oh yes, you are opposed to being tried for terrorist acts before they go to the practical stage?

    My opinion on the very fact of the existence of Article 205.4 is not entirely appropriate to state.
  • Dart2027 21 February 2020 15: 50 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    There is such a job - to kill Russian people
    And how many revolutionaries killed them?
    Quote: Octopus
    referring to small Jewish gesheft
    Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev confirm.
    Quote: Octopus
    What did the soldiers do there? Why were they needed there? To whom?
    Do you know why they are needed? Although, yes riot police would be more useful.
    Quote: Octopus
    the very fact of the existence of article 205.4 is not entirely appropriate to state
    So are we talking about her? This article (not in the Criminal Code, but in VO) is precisely on the topic of "fighters for ..."
  • Octopus 21 February 2020 17: 53 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    And how many revolutionaries killed them?

    Quote: Dart2027
    Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev

    Is this a sport? I thought so.
    Quote: Dart2027
    Do you know why they are needed?

    To protect citizens? Including from the confused gendarmes?
  • Dart2027 21 February 2020 18: 56 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    Is this a sport?
    So you started a conversation about Jewish gesheft? Here you are.
    Quote: Octopus
    To protect
    order. As I wrote, this whole story was presented exclusively from those who shot, but I would like to read what those who shot claimed.
  • mat-vey 21 February 2020 05: 13 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    But how many people died this question, because there are quite a few options. The commission found that there were 202 wounded, and there are 3-4 times fewer killed.

    “On April 4, at night, the strike committee was arrested. Workers, according to the police’s advice, went to the Nadezhdinsky mine with a statement to the prosecutor. On the way, they met the district engineer Tulchinsky and asked to report to the prosecutor. At that moment, without warning, the volley was fired. 150 were killed, more than 250 were injured. Those killed were rescued by Tulchinsky’s bodies. A guard was injured. Workers crawling backwards were shot continuously. Attempts to sue the partnership were paralyzed. They arrested those who know the law. They don’t make settlements. We ask for . Ita wives and children of killed workers beg allow pay their last respects killed -. Working a second distance "
  • Dart2027 21 February 2020 07: 04 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    At that moment, without warning, a volley was fired by the troops. 150 killed, over 250 injured

    And some argue that more than 300 were killed, someone that 270. The only official document is the results of the commission.
  • mat-vey 21 February 2020 07: 13 New
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    Well, "this" from the "Office of the Press. Information Bureau" to you "M.V.D." believe more? Like Stolypin in the wrestlers with the regime was not listed.
  • Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 25 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    Like Stolypin in the wrestlers with the regime was not listed

    He was gone.
    Quote: mat-vey
    Well, "this" from the "Press Office. Inquiry Bureau"

    And where did they get them from? There are results of the commission that worked there, this is understandable. All other numbers are unknown.
  • mat-vey 22 February 2020 17: 29 New
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    And what commission? There were two of them. And which is characteristic - neither that nor that about the number of dead did not write, only about the survey of the wounded. So what are the results then?
  • Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 49 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    And that is characteristic - neither that, nor that about a quantity of the killed did not write, only about interrogation of wounded
    Quote: Dart2027
    And some argue that more than 300 were killed, someone that 270. The only official document is the results of the commission.
  • mat-vey 22 February 2020 18: 41 New
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    So what does the “only official document” say about the dead?
    What was written sounded in the press organ of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200?
  • Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 55 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200

    Likely that the commission wrote about 202 wounded.
    150 are alleged killed and over 250 injured.
    Rather, the dead were 80-100.
  • mat-vey 23 February 2020 03: 35 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    Quote: mat-vey
    And what is the fundamental difference - 150 or 200

    Likely that the commission wrote about 202 wounded.
    150 are alleged killed and over 250 injured.
    Rather, the dead were 80-100.

    What are you talking about now? I repeat the question - what is the fundamental difference between 150 was killed or 200?
  • Dart2027 23 February 2020 13: 08 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    what is the fundamental difference between 150 was killed or 200

    At 50 people.
  • mat-vey 23 February 2020 13: 10 New
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    Are they people for you?
  • Campanella 22 February 2020 17: 05 New
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    You lie, the people did not shout down with Soviet power. Troll here without stopping writing on the go, a dummy.
  • Lamata 19 February 2020 12: 40 New
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    The point would be to read. And so, yes. the power comes out. The degree is growing, and mind you, not retirees, but young people.
    1. sleeve 19 February 2020 13: 51 New
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      Well, with youth it’s clear. He is a priori ready for the pensioner and, as a rule, is able and still motivated. And the young must be fasted, nurtured.
    2. Andrey VOV 19 February 2020 15: 06 New
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      And who will give it to you then read
      1. Lamata 19 February 2020 15: 18 New
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        They will not give, algvazily swear.
  • old friend 19 February 2020 12: 41 New
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    My opinion is that a harsh (cruel) sentence is unjustified. In reality, they did nothing. Even if they really planned something (big doubts remain), they would have given the leaders a real term, but not 18 years. The rest for the first time - conditionally with a supervision of 5 years. Such cruelty can only give rise to other things - cruelty on the other hand.
    The next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will move more quickly to real action. As experience shows, repression cannot simply solve the problems of society. But now all followers have real heroes and martyrs, and not just a punks.

    Still - in my opinion, such terms for real corruption would give the state more. There real damage to the country - thousands of times more, including not only economic damage, but also political / social. But it’s easier to put the boys for 20 years.
    1. St Petrov 19 February 2020 12: 43 New
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      As experience shows, simply by repression

      laughing
      Even if they were really planning something (big doubts remain),

      laughing
      The rest for the first time - conditionally

      wassat
      But now all followers have real heroes and martyrs, and not just a punks.

      laughing
      I read a report by conscientious journalists from the 90s about fighters for independence of Ichkeria

      These animals will sit.
      1. old friend 19 February 2020 12: 56 New
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        in the current conditions, sentences of this kind, against the background of the utter discredit of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the eyes of society, raise great doubts about their objectivity.
        If we add total corruption and its impunity, the result for the state becomes the exact opposite of what they wanted to get.
      2. old friend 19 February 2020 13: 00 New
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        Power play out. Now they are planting amateurs who played airsoft and read specials. literature (if it's not a lie, of course). When professionals get down to business, everyone will not be laughing. Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.
        1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 30 New
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          Quote: old friend
          Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.

          )))
          In fact, the Tsar’s position is more or less clear. Set the fee for your departure, which one hundred years ago was paid for the departure of Nicholas. The emperor is right, most likely. The multinational Russian people will not do anything here, there’s no one and nothing to pay the price of Nikolai with.
          1. old friend 20 February 2020 08: 46 New
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            As for the total terror - I had in mind the terror against officials, ex-men across the country have acquired a truly incredible scale.
        2. mat-vey 20 February 2020 08: 43 New
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          Quote: old friend
          When professionals get down to business, everyone will not be laughing. Before the total terror before 1917, they apparently did not hear anything or forgot well.

          There are more professionals, in my opinion, it’s just by 1917 - that M. Svechnikov as a vivid example ..
      3. old friend 19 February 2020 13: 07 New
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        but especially for you, I would like to remind you that this problem can affect anyone. When local "comrades" beat you or someone from your family to testify about something you never planned to do, then there will certainly be some sort of Petrov, Sidorov, Kozlov ... I’m sure that you it won't be so much fun anymore.
        If nothing is changed in society and power, then history always moves in a spiral, but some do not understand this.
        1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 13: 29 New
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          Quote: old friend
          When local “comrades” beat you or someone from your family to testify about what you never planned to do, then too

          Are you talking about "Stalin's executioners"? I remember 30 years ago they shouted about it at all angles.
        2. Andrey VOV 19 February 2020 15: 08 New
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          It smelled like liberal buoyancy .... oh oh they are children
      4. victor50 19 February 2020 13: 39 New
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        Quote: c-Petrov
        These animals will sit.

        Oh Zheglov !? No, a parody ... laughing
      5. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 07 New
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        Quote: c-Petrov
        These animals will sit.

        They will be. What they have done is NOT OK. How abnormal is the denial of the abnormal situation in the country. The article has comparisons. The terms are comparable with the terms of real bloody murderers. And the case is very reminiscent of Kvachkov’s "assassination attempt on Chubais." And when the jury did not burn out with him (acquitted), they immediately concocted a rebellion with a crossbow and a campaign against Moscow. Now it is customary to nod to Ukraine in case of any stocks. Like, do you want it there? - Sit, do not tweet! That was all long before 2014. Crimea simply pushed the agenda for several years. Now they hint at the inadmissibility of any protest. These, okay, were about to overthrow someone there. And for a picket of 6 years is normal? Everything leads to the fact that they say: “Tomorrow gasoline at 150, VAT 50%, pensions are canceled. Whoever shouts the hurray - march to the zone”
        1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 33 New
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          Quote: unwillingly
          is a 6-year picket normal?

          The picket in Rostov, it seems, was due to the fact that the houses of residents, located in suitable places for building, began to burn. That is, there it is no longer about saving the regime from the revolution (no matter how crazy the question is with respect to airsoft players), but purely specific topics.
    2. Lopatov 19 February 2020 12: 56 New
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      Quote: old friend
      The next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will move more quickly to real action.

      And how the Islamist "pofstantsy" simply do not live to see the trial, they die during detention.
      And this is good. Genetics need to be cleaned.
      We have the 24th year of the fight against Islamic terrorism in our yard. Tough, professional, financially secure. What you need to be ....... to try to play with terror in your sandbox.
      1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 09 New
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        Quote: Spade
        Genetics must be cleaned

        Mine kampf did not read, but approve? Something guards to fascism agreed.
        1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 16: 11 New
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          Quote: unwillingly
          Mine kampf did not read, but approve?

          Was there genetics?
          Damn, classes ended at school, started ....
          1. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 21 New
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            Do not waste time on school. From the kindergarten, they released earlier, Comrade Marshal. I did not read, not in the know. Can, incidentally, extremist literature? So, suggested. But in your statements, the antennae and the hook are somehow visible.
            1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 17: 56 New
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              Quote: unwillingly
              But in your statements, the antennae and the hook are somehow visible.

              You would have to learn more, read books. And do not look at other people's posts tendrils ....
              Damn, what a day ....
              At one Hague in Switzerland, at another at Mine Kampf genetics, at the third "thought crime" it is original ...
              Here's the word, the exam is evil.
              1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 09: 45 New
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                Quote: Spade
                Damn, what a day ....

                Be patient. Here is a little more and you will correct genetics for us, you will be happy and calm. Or we to you. Do not blame me. In the meantime, I stop the stupid srach. I don’t know how educated you are, but I am more educated. Come on, Marshal.
                1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 10: 00 New
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                  Quote: unwillingly
                  Or we to you.

                  For this, brains are needed .... But your company justifying terrorism clearly does not observe them.
                  1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 10: 49 New
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                    Extremes, insults and distortion, dear. All your funds. So who has no brains here? Not to see halftones is stupid. If I say that the authorities, with their unpopular measures to put it mildly, give rise to discontent, then I, it turns out, justify terrorism. Vyshinsky nervously smokes on the sidelines. And "edit genetics" in Lopatov’s way - that’s wow. Remember: "What is hello - such is the answer."
                    1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 10: 55 New
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                      Quote: unwillingly
                      Extremes, insults and distortion, dear. All your funds.

                      Dear, you yourself immediately, without any nonsense, like arguments on the topic of discussion passed to the individual.
                      Remember the phrase "Mine kampf did not read, but approve? Something guards to fascism agreed."because you wrote? At least I hope so ...

                      And when your transition to personalities was answered in the mirror, you began to whine
                      This man does not paint. Get used to being answered the same in the same place.
                      1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 13: 44 New
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                        Yes, I wrote it. I do not approve of extremes. What about those that have these. As well as calls for judicial reprisals. The characters in the case received what the court decided. I'm just trying to convey the idea that everything is not so cloudless in the country. The stratification is terrible, the measures taken so far have caused, to put it mildly, the discontent of the Shirnarmass. So I do not condone the appearance of such groups, but I draw attention to: these things are largely provoked by the actions of the authorities themselves. To this I usually get the answer that the traitor, a mongrel of the State Department and so on. Not from you. Here enough of such a people. The remark made a sharp one, but where is the transition to personality?
                      2. Lopatov 20 February 2020 14: 01 New
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                        Quote: unwillingly
                        Yes, I wrote it.

                        Well, why are you indignant with the answer?

                        I will now give you a small list of proverbs and sayings. In a couple of minutes
                        Presumably, they were also created by "guards who agreed to fascism"
                        From a bad seed, do not expect a good tribe
                        What kind, kind and offspring.
                        What is the birch, such is the appendix.
                        Into the uterus and babies.
                        What is the earth, such is the bread
                        What is the root, such is the offspring.
                        A wolf was born, a fox cannot be.
                        What is father, such are his children.


                        Your coders really have a big problem with education. But the labels like "guards" at the time you hang. Along the way, confusing Nazism with fascism ...
                        By the way, the term "guards" first appeared in an article by L. Shvetsova on the site of Radio Liberty

                        Quote: unwillingly
                        As well as calls for judicial reprisals.

                        Well, excuse me, guys who are really fighting terrorism are much more important than their own lives and the lives of comrades than lordly approval or disapproval from the couch.
                        Therefore, most of the terrogyugs in our country run into "judicial reprisals" during the capture. Minimizing risk, nothing personal.
                      3. lukewarm 20 February 2020 15: 59 New
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                        Thank you, I will know the proverbs and where the term came from. Not everything is bad, what is invented there wink Write more, we will be formed and use less stamps. My problem is that I am not in Caudle. Not in the one in which you wrote me down, nor in yours. With kodla it was simpler b. What he wrote there, "and we - you" is in full swing. There are no we. Will be - it will be easier. In the meantime, so. Yes, and I really don't care what happens around. Because there are no subcutaneous reserves, neither moral nor financial, and all the crap that floats past somehow touches and it becomes more difficult for me to live personally. I think we’ll round off on this. If at least a little understood each other - well. No - not fate.
  • Crystal of Truth 19 February 2020 14: 45 New
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    Such cruelty can only give rise to other things - cruelty on the other hand. >>>>>
    I'm afraid you're right
  • sergo1914 19 February 2020 12: 44 New
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    court ruled to burn Karl Marx’s book Capital seized during searches as a “means of committing a crime” of no value


    Everything you need to know about the mental abilities of current power structures. Well, the statement of the CC judge about the USSR there too. Relatively recently (by historical standards), some in Germany also began with the burning of objectionable books.
    1. sleeve 19 February 2020 13: 53 New
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      Hmm ... Powerful conclusion. A book with a hundred million circulation should always be kept at the expense of the state?
    2. Varyag71 19 February 2020 14: 53 New
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      Interestingly, if there was a portrait of Stalin, would they have burned him too?
    3. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 11 New
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      Yes, and here they are enough. They’re already offering to bring them down during detention, so that the GENETIC in the country can be corrected.
    4. Odysseus 19 February 2020 16: 27 New
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      Quote: sergo1914
      Everything you need to know about the mental abilities of current power structures.

      It's right. Here the thing is that the post-Soviet authorities of the Russian Federation have degraded so much that they bring any of their actions to complete absurdity. And not even because of some special malice. They just really do not know how and do not understand, they even steal and that is bad .. So they wanted to play state terrorism, and that in the end ....
      Got it, before the political strike book shops. The entire struggle for informational hegemony around the "affairs of the Network" was completely lost (despite the complete mobilization of the "Olgin"). Now they will think how to get out of this idiotic situation. The most logical is to play the old game of the “good King” reducing sentence. But this will not help much ..
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 36 New
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        Quote: Odyssey
        The most logical thing is to play the old game of the “good King” reducing sentence

        It is impossible. It turns out that they "caved in" in front of the bespectacles. The boys will not understand.
  • iouris 19 February 2020 12: 44 New
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    The revolution takes place according to objective laws, and not at the request of "infantile intellectuals." For a revolution, first of all, objective (necessary, but insufficient) conditions are needed. So do not create them.
  • Leshy1975 19 February 2020 12: 45 New
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    Interestingly, the court ordered the burning of Karl Marx's book Capital, which was seized during the searches, as a “means of committing a crime” of no value. Together with Capital, the GRU special forces textbook and several anarchist brochures also confiscated during the searches were “sentenced” to burning.

    Well, somewhere in history we already saw something similar. Bonfires, books different in a bonfire, Capital is so necessary. But then, with trembling hands, gently holding, they open My struggle of Adolf Aloizovich.
    What, thicken? Does not look like it? Of course, it’s not quite similar yet. But dear already faithful step, gentlemen.

    PS And I know that at the end of this road awaits us all. Do not believe it yet? Well, a successful journey, at the end of this journey we will meet. And let's see who the truth remains. hi
  • rocket757 19 February 2020 12: 55 New
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    Meanwhile, the mere presence of people who are young and far from being the most antisocial in their way of life and behavior, ready to embark on the path of struggle with the authorities, the political system that has developed in Russia, is a very alarming fact.

    Question - And were the group members going to fight precisely with the authorities? If you intended to blow somewhere?
    And what intentions was there to blow up? Was preparation for the implementation of intentions? in short, a lot of questions ... but since I did not delve into the topic, there are no judgments, just a series of questions ....
    1. Bashkirkhan 19 February 2020 13: 03 New
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      It is not clear why they needed Saiga and Vepr carbines, two grenades, smokeless powder, and most importantly, precursors for the manufacture of explosives, namely aluminum powder and ammonium nitrate in commercial quantities. Most likely, aluminum powder was needed for the manufacture of silver paint, and nitrate in order to multiply the soil fertility.
      1. rocket757 19 February 2020 14: 07 New
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        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        why did they need Saiga and Vepr carbines, two grenades, smokeless gunpowder, and most importantly, precursors for the manufacture of explosives, namely aluminum powder and ammonium nitrate

        But this is SERIOUS, because if they cannot prove that they were going to jam the fish, MANY FISH, which is also a real violation of the law, but "softer", as it were. Weapons then, in order to guard \ fight off the bears, who will be sharply against the invasion and devastation of their lumpy lands ... what else can lawyers come up with ???
        If there are still man or state hateful proclamations, appeals, etc. ... then OH, get it to the fullest. There are no questions if all of the above facts take place to be proved.
        The fact that our security agencies do not play pranks, we understand and want to be sure of this forever.
        In general, so - if everything is done on garlic, there are no questions. The main thing is that you do not have to hear again about the dishonest work of OUR guards, as happened ... not from sources such as OBS, but officially confirmed.
      2. lukewarm 19 February 2020 16: 16 New
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        Well, if the "revolutionaries" - then the presence of "Saiga" and BB is logical. But what have the drugs found here? Is "Capital" better for drugs? And I also remember other "revolutionaries." When I allegedly wanted to capture a military unit with a crossbow and blank cartridges in Kovrov and go to Moscow. Yeah. There, too, there was one who, in a "special order", gave the necessary testimony and set everyone down.
        1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 16: 47 New
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          Quote: unwillingly
          But what have the drugs found here?

          What confuses you?
          1. lukewarm 20 February 2020 22: 12 New
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            The ideological "red" and drugs do not fit. Were there urki ...
  • Professor Preobrazhensky 19 February 2020 13: 01 New
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    Theoretically, now you can close for any prison term, almost any hunting team, airsoft team, shooting gallery, community of reconstructors, etc.
    It is only necessary to incriminate them what they wanted in France ...
    1. Prjanik 19 February 2020 15: 13 New
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      And we have every airsoft team with us
      explosive devices, grenades, carbines and pistols, narcotic substances
      ??
    2. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 38 New
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      Quote: Professor Preobrazhensky
      It is only necessary to incriminate them what they wanted in France ...

      There was one Napoleon ...
  • paul3390 19 February 2020 13: 02 New
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    Quote: old friend
    The next time, the "revolutionaries" will be more cautious and will move more quickly to real action.

    If they actually read the founders, they would know that only a revolutionary situation can be the key to successful actions. Otherwise, everything is meaningless. And such has not yet developed, although all the prerequisites are there. We need to work with people, create parties, movements, read and popularize literature. So that at the right moment - to be in the right place and behave correctly. And individual terror will not lead to anything, this is still the practice of the Left Social Revolutionaries. So - I doubt very much the results of the type of investigation and trial .. Having blinded such a huge term for what they have not done yet - the authorities simply showed that she was afraid of them, of them and their followers. That's all.
    1. _Sergei_ 19 February 2020 13: 55 New
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      They will not blow up power, but ordinary citizens. And the whole howl “they are children” and “have not yet managed to do anything” is inappropriate. If they did, then a howl would rise that the authorities overlooked.
      1. Dart2027 19 February 2020 15: 02 New
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        Quote: _Sergey_
        They will not blow up power, but ordinary citizens.

        And those who shout "give a revolution" do not think about it.
  • Slavs 19 February 2020 13: 02 New
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    Interestingly, here everyone really believes that these characters could crank out the overthrow of power?
    1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 13: 06 New
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      These characters could carry out attacks. One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.
      1. Slavs 19 February 2020 13: 16 New
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        I am not familiar with the materials of the case; I have not followed the process. I accidentally found out from the news recently. To overthrow the power of a rather weak group. My opinion. Even if they are a tool, then who is the customer?
        1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 13: 22 New
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          Quote: Slavs
          To overthrow the power of a rather weak group.

          And these are the defenders of these umoyoks "invention."
          In fact, no "overthrow of power" (article 278)
          They were tried for “Creation and participation in the terrorist community” (205 st.) Well, and the associated illicit trafficking in weapons and ammunition, explosives and drugs
      2. Octopus 19 February 2020 13: 33 New
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        Quote: Spade
        One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.

        Truth? Which one?
        1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 13: 35 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          Truth? Which one?

          Pchelintsev
          1. Octopus 19 February 2020 13: 40 New
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            You are about the charge of the episode of the 11th year, which is with him was filmed? More principled than the prosecutor, as I understand it?
            1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 13: 45 New
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              Quote: Octopus
              Are you talking about the charge on the episode of the 11th year that was withdrawn from it?

              Yes.
              Quote: Octopus
              More principled than the prosecutor, as I understand it?

              Definitely.
              I know what terrorism is not from online stories.

              Such bites must be crushed in the cradle. So far no one was hurt.
              1. Varyag71 19 February 2020 14: 56 New
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                If only mom allows you. And then I beat Call jf Duty
                1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 15: 07 New
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                  Quote: Varyag71
                  If only mom allows you. And then I beat Call jf Duty

                  Charming ...
                  When your coders run out of arguments, you try to troll. Often very dumb ....

                  For example, writing such a phrase to someone who can tell where and why, over the aryk in the north of Bamut, the bridge was thrown. And in what houses on the southeastern outskirts of Komsomolsky were snipers “Alpha” laughing

                  Imagine how ridiculous to read your nonsense about mom and a game that I have never played. Unlike you, apparently laughing laughing laughing
      3. MoJloT 19 February 2020 14: 03 New
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        One of the characters threw Molotov cocktails at the draft board.
        This charge was dropped, it says a lot! Was there such an incident in principle.
        1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 14: 23 New
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          Quote: MoJloT
          This charge was dropped, it says a lot!

          Конечно.
          About the laziness of prosecutors, about Pchelintsev’s curvature, about the strange norm of "absorbing a less severe punishment by a more severe one"

          But does not mean that this bastard did not try to commit a terrorist attack. Only his curvature saved people from death.
          1. Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 43 New
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            Quote: Spade
            But does not mean that this bastard did not try to commit a terrorist attack

            This suggests that the accusation of the episode is so delusional that even the FSB was embarrassed, although, admittedly, there is little embarrassment there. They removed the only real fact from the case simply because of laziness, but, keep your pocket wider.
      4. MoJloT 19 February 2020 14: 55 New
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        These characters could carry out attacks
        And they might not have implemented it, by this principle we are now planting? Just in case? Do you have arms, legs? So you are a potential terrorist, I advise you to write a confession before specially trained people have helped you!
        1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 14: 59 New
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          Quote: MoJloT
          And they might not have implemented it, by this principle we are now planting?

          Yes, and for a very long time.
          Intent is as punishable as the commission of a crime.

          You did not know about this?
          1. MoJloT 19 February 2020 15: 05 New
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            Intent is also punished
            In Russia, yes, it’s possible to ring out for thoughts in your head, a careless word, or you can ring out in general for nothing, this is not about that, everyone knows that. But here's how you read the thoughts of the accused? This is more interesting)
            1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 15: 19 New
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              Quote: MoJloT
              In Russia, yes, it’s possible to ring out for thoughts in your head, a careless word, or you can ring out in general for nothing, this is not about that, everyone knows that. But here's how you read the thoughts of the accused? This is more interesting)

              And this is in its purest form demagogy.

              Let's do it. A man with a hammer approaches you. Getting ready to smash your head. And you can’t stop him, because you can’t be “judged by thoughts”
              Let it hit ....
              But generally funny.
              When a terrorist attack occurs, your codle squeals "why not prevented"
              When a terrorist attack is prevented, your kodla squeals "you cannot be judged by thoughts."

              You, damn it, decide.
              Including about whether you are ready to die yourself and sacrifice your relatives in order to exercise the right of terrorists to prepare terrorist acts with impunity.
              1. MoJloT 19 February 2020 15: 29 New
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                Well, so you start demagoguery and everything that you have just written is pure demagogy. Of course, you can arrange a dispute on this scribble, but it’s a pity to spend time on your Kodla.
                1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 15: 36 New
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                  Quote: MoJloT
                  Well, so you start demagoguery and everything that you have just written is pure demagogy.

                  Ага.
                  This is where I crucify on the topic that some good people should not be judged for the intent to commit a crime and for its preparation, because
                  "they are children" and, in general, such nyashki.

                  Well, since they are ready to sacrifice themselves and their loved ones for the principle of "you can not judge for thoughts." Or let others puff out for it. Like a potential corpse from the military enlistment office of the Oktyabrsky district of Penza. He and his family do not mind you, let the kids play with terrorists. More military, less military ... women still give birth.
                  1. MoJloT 19 February 2020 15: 40 New
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                    Yeah. This is where I crucify on the topic that some good people should not be judged for the intent to commit a crime and for its preparation, because
                    "they are children" and, in general, such nyashki.
                    When you find yourself in such a situation, I won’t be surprised that law enforcement officers will identify you as a terrorist or that you shot at Lenin, and you confirm everything. Your naivety borders on stupidity.
                    1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 16: 09 New
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                      Quote: MoJloT
                      When you find yourself in this situation

                      Once again, I already found myself. My wife went to my parents, I replaced a colleague and stuck in the barracks. In the early morning, after I kicked everyone out for charging, there was a crash.
                      Anxiety, boiling, one of the blown up houses turned out to be the one in which he rented an apartment.

                      And if these ...... were strangled earlier, "for thoughts", people would have survived.
                      After all, they are exactly the same as these "one children" started

                      I understand that you do not care about possible victims; propaganda is more important to you. But do not show it so frankly.
                      1. MoJloT 19 February 2020 16: 12 New
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                        Anxiety, boiling, one of the blown up houses turned out to be the one in which he rented an apartment. And if these ...... were strangled earlier, "for thoughts", people would have survived.
                        After all, they are exactly the same as these "one children" started
                        You do not need to write comments, but work through an injury. And then so until the end of days everywhere they will seem "one child".
                      2. Lopatov 19 February 2020 17: 48 New
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                        Quote: MoJloT
                        You do not need to write comments, but work through an injury.

                        Or is it better for you to treat something so that you cease to justify terrorism?
                      3. MoJloT 19 February 2020 18: 00 New
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                        so that you stop justifying terrorism?
                        I do not condone, a good terrorist is a dead terrorist. You just seem to have it already, this is not very good. Seriously, take care of your health.
                      4. Lopatov 19 February 2020 18: 13 New
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                        Quote: MoJloT
                        I do not condone, a good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

                        Exactly!
                        And these were just planted.

                        Quote: MoJloT
                        You just seem to have it already, this is not very good. Seriously, take care of your health.

                        Let's continue this nice talk about "do not judge for thoughts" on another thread.
                        This one: https://topwar.ru/168091-v-moskve-zaderzhana-gruppa-radikalnyh-islamistov.html

                        I'd like to know your authoritative opinion about the arbitrariness of the authorities.
                      5. Octopus 20 February 2020 09: 09 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        Let's continue this nice talk about "do not judge for thoughts" on another thread.
                        This one: https://topwar.ru/168091-v-moskve-zaderzhana-gruppa-radikalnyh-islamistov.html

                        Yes, an absolutely adequate example, thanks. The faces covered the nest of the janitors and sew them bin Laden for forbidden books.

                        What is especially interesting, a raid on janitors in the Moscow Region is an occasion for you to talk about how well and correctly torture Russians in Penza. And there is absolutely no reason to talk about the fact that Russia has a visa regime with Switzerland and a visa-free regime with Tajikistan.
                      6. Lopatov 20 February 2020 10: 04 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        Yes, an absolutely adequate example, thanks. The faces covered the nest of the janitors and sew them Bin Laden for forbidden books.

                        So why did you keep silent on that branch? Why don't you protect the nannies?
                      7. Octopus 20 February 2020 11: 01 New
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                        I do not read news on the site at all.
                      8. Lopatov 20 February 2020 11: 16 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        I do not read news on the site at all.

                        laughing laughing laughing
                        In fact, the link is in my post.
                        It seems that you are not only not reading the news, but also the posts you are responding to.

                        But it is, the lyrics.
                        Now you know that cute kids are “pressed for thoughts”, for “unprovable intent”. Why are you still not on that branch?
                      9. Octopus 20 February 2020 11: 26 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        Why are you still not on that branch?

                        Again. I do not go to the News section of the site. And yes, this is exactly the same case as the Network, only with electric wonders did not have time to turn around.
                      10. Lopatov 20 February 2020 11: 33 New
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                        Quote: Octopus
                        Again. I do not go to the News section of the site.

                        Are you afraid?
                        Reasonably.
                        The justification of terrorism is not khukh-mukhra
                      11. Octopus 20 February 2020 14: 17 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        The justification of terrorism is not khukh-mukhra

                        I look, do not leave your favorite job in retirement?
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 09: 04 New
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    Quote: Spade
    Let's do it. A man with a hammer approaches you. Getting ready to smash your head. And you can’t stop him, because you can’t be “judged by thoughts”

    Of course not. If you came to Leroy, stood at the box office and started killing everyone who picks up hammers, because they are supposedly preparing to attack you, then the conversation with you is short. And for the cause: they have - the alleged intention, you - the case, the corpses of a peacekeeper.

    The search for a weapon in a party, whether it is airsoft, or whether it’s a shootout, is precisely the shumon of hammers at Leroy’s box office.
    1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 10: 10 New
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      Quote: Octopus
      Of course not.

      And here is your balabolstvo.
      What “no” if he did nothing?
      He didn’t hit, so you can’t "sew an article" for him
      As soon as it concerns you personally, you cowardly include double standards. For they are sure that someone else should suffer from the "freedom" for which you advocate.

      Quote: Octopus
      The search for a weapon in a party, whether it is airsoft, or whether it’s a shootout, is precisely the shumon of hammers at Leroy’s box office.

      Lying is bad.
      See, exactly what I was talking about is happening now.
      You are lying.
      "Forgetting" about throwing bottles with a combustible mixture in the military enlistment office. And so your codla loses the remnants of trust. And then it whines "why the wrong people choose Putin instead of ours"
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 11: 17 New
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        Quote: Spade
        What “no” if he did nothing?

        Also no. You cannot shoot a man with a hammer because Do you thinkthat he is threatening you. Except when you are in your own right. For example, you are at home and you did not call him. In the opposite case - you climbed into his house - he is right in any case.

        But this is lyrics. Under current law, you cannot attack “preventively” under any circumstances.
        Quote: Spade
        As soon as it concerns you personally, you cowardly include double standards

        No, what are you. I personally have extremely liberal standards. They consist in the fact that under no circumstances should garbage be involved in their affairs. Whoever has littered himself either sat down or took sin into his soul.
        1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 11: 31 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          Also no. You cannot shoot a man with a hammer

          This is all ordinary demagogy.
          The question was something else. And your company persistently yulit, not wanting to answer it.
          A man with a hammer is not somewhere out there, abstractly. I already know that your spit on people.

          A man with a hammer near you personally. It has an unprovable intent to kill you personally. For real, for good. Already swung.
          It is necessary to wait on your advice, so that there is something to punish him for?
          Ready to sacrifice yourself for an idea?

          Quote: Octopus
          They consist in the fact that under no circumstances should garbage be involved in their affairs.

          8)))))
          Couch.
          Apparently, you have never encountered serious situations, therefore such a "hero"
          If something serious happens, “not attracting” will fail. Or come to them, or come already for you. But they will come anyway.


          Quote: Octopus
          I personally have extremely liberal standards.

          These are not “liberal,” these are purely blatant standards.
          Precisely "thieves" and not "criminal", because the "peasant" to appeal to law enforcement officers is not shameful. Not welcome, but not catastrophic. But for those who "sway the regime" ... so yes. "under no circumstances should you attract"

          Liberals always advocate the priority of the Law.
          1. Octopus 20 February 2020 16: 54 New
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            Quote: Spade
            Liberals always favor the priority of the Law

            You confuse me with liberal Putin. Normal liberals could stand for priority right. And not for the sanctity of a piece of paper that people wrote, confident that personally these pieces of paper would never relate to them.

            No right in Russia there is no and will not be in the near future. Right is the essence restriction forces, and the law, in the Russian sense, is the essence tool strength. Too cleverly said, but in no other way.

            Quote: Spade
            These are not “liberal,” these are purely blatant standards.

            No, just liberal. In the dashing 90s there were "normal" boys who could be contacted, and beaten out losers. Their necessary was to distinguish. So from the official there are no normal at all, quite a long time ago. In the early 00s there was everything, now it is not.
            Quote: Spade
            If something serious happens, “not attracting” will fail. Or come to them, or come already for you. But they will come anyway.

            Yes Yes. No one argues that they can cause problems. They cannot solve them.
            Quote: Spade
            A man with a hammer near you personally. It has an unprovable intent to kill you personally. For real, for good. Already swung.

            If I personally meeting a person who already swung - I will do according to the circumstances. To different circumstances. If I meet a person who plans to plan - I’ll do otherwise.
          2. Lopatov 20 February 2020 17: 29 New
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            Quote: Octopus
            No, just liberal.

            No, it’s just a crook in its purest form. Unclouded. Your lips have already been sewn up, it remains to begin to prick your domes and sing "murka" ...
            No luck with liberals
            laughing laughing laughing laughing

            Quote: Octopus
            Yes Yes. No one argues that they can cause problems. They cannot solve them.

            Who cares. Anyway, without them it will not work in any situation.
            And "under no circumstances should garbage be brought to business." You can only in one case, completely isolating yourself from any possible conflicts.

            Quote: Octopus
            If I personally meet a person who has already swung

            You will be required to wait until he crushes your skull. You are an ideological person, aren't you?
          3. Octopus 20 February 2020 18: 28 New
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            Quote: Spade
            No, it’s just a damn thing in its purest form

            The urks have long been littering.
            Quote: Spade
            No luck with liberals

            Russia is not lucky with everything.
            Quote: Spade
            completely isolating yourself from any possible conflicts.

            Not quite. You miss the voice of the verb.
            Quote: Spade
            You are an ideological person, aren't you?

            A little ideological. But humanism is not among my ideas.

            Again.
            I do not believe that the goal of the participants in the process was to protect society in general and me in particular from real-life threats.
            Unlike most liberals, I otherwise distribute blame for what happened. In my list of directly shoulder cases, the masters are far from the first place.
  • polar fox 19 February 2020 17: 31 New
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    Quote: Spade
    Intent is as punishable as the commission of a crime.

    thought crime? already original.
    1. Lopatov 19 February 2020 17: 50 New
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      Quote: polar fox
      thought crime? already original.

      Not original for 72 years.
      At school it was necessary to study better ....

      Damn, where the site is heading .....
  • Octopus 20 February 2020 08: 47 New
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    Quote: Spade
    Intent is also punished

    No, actually. Because intent unprovableprovable preparation. Which, in this case, are not proven.
    Although on the other hand, you are right. The Russian legislator has long and hard experimented with the concept of thought crime. Malicious against people's power - you will sit!
    1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 10: 13 New
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      Quote: Octopus
      Because intent is unprovable

      laughing laughing laughing
      This is a pearl ...
      Something new and advanced in jurisprudence
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 11: 18 New
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        It was new and advanced 2 thousand years ago. They do not punish intentions.
        1. Lopatov 20 February 2020 11: 39 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          It was new and advanced 2 thousand years ago. They do not punish intentions.

          More and more fun.
          Already pulls on the Nobel.
          In the field of literature for a work in the style of an alternative story
    2. Dart2027 20 February 2020 12: 14 New
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      Quote: Octopus
      provable preparations. Which, in this case, are not proven.

      A source?
      1. Octopus 20 February 2020 12: 53 New
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        The source of what?

        There will be a case in the ECHR - we will see what is proved there.
        1. Dart2027 20 February 2020 14: 20 New
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          Quote: Octopus
          The source of what?

          Your words. How it is known that are unproven.
          1. Octopus 20 February 2020 20: 04 New
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            Quote: Dart2027
            How it is known that are unproven.

            Pure taste.
            1. Dart2027 20 February 2020 20: 16 New
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              Quote: Octopus
              Pure taste.

              That is out of nowhere.
              1. Octopus 20 February 2020 21: 42 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                That is out of nowhere

                Naturally. I did not carry out the process. So I use for judgment only the reputation of the participants. Me It's enough.
              2. Dart2027 21 February 2020 07: 05 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                That's enough for me.

                To state unequivocally?
              3. Octopus 21 February 2020 08: 17 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                To state unequivocally?

                Of course. I didn’t fall from the sky.

                I am forced to draw your attention to ideological differences. You, it seems to me, think that penal servitude in the administrative order for alleged rebels is a struggle against revolution. I am deeply convinced that this is a struggle behind revolution. I do not hate the old regime because it tormented the poor Bolsheviks. I hate him, among other things, for bringing the Bolsheviks to power. He was disgusting to such an extent that (un) people who at least took the trouble to lie beautifully broke the bank.
              4. Dart2027 21 February 2020 09: 49 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                You, it seems to me, think that penal servitude in the administrative order for alleged rebels is a struggle against revolution. I am deeply convinced that this is a struggle for revolution.

                If this is such a hard labor with which some escaped several times, then yes.
                Quote: Octopus
                (not) people who at least took the trouble to lie beautifully
                I don’t remember who, it seems Mark Twain, said that lying will always have an advantage over the truth.
                Quote: Octopus
                He was disgusting to such an extent that
                It was an ordinary state of its era, no better no worse than others.
              5. Octopus 21 February 2020 11: 35 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                If this is such a hard labor with which some escaped several times

                I have no other hard labor for you.
                Quote: Dart2027
                lies will always have an advantage over the truth.

                Yes. Especially before such a truth.
                Quote: Dart2027
                an ordinary state of its era, no better no worse than others.

                It would not be worse - it would not fall apart.
                But partly you are right. The Russia we lost is the bottom level of that time. But the USSR is not the bottom, it is generally parallel reality and non-linear geometry.
              6. Dart2027 21 February 2020 15: 59 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                I have no other hard labor for you.
                But after the revolution it appeared. They didn’t run away from the camps in the USSR several times.
                Quote: Octopus
                Especially before such a truth.
                Before anyone.
                Quote: Octopus
                It would not be worse - it would not fall apart.
                Thanks to high-ranking traitors - generals and ministers.
              7. Octopus 21 February 2020 17: 54 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                high-ranking traitors - generals and ministers.

                Let's say. And they also walked in that crowd at the mines, is that for sure?
              8. Dart2027 21 February 2020 18: 49 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                And they, too, walked in that crowd at the mines

                You already decide what it is about - a particular case or the collapse of the whole country. The country was destroyed by those who did not care how many people would die in the riots.
              9. Octopus 21 February 2020 21: 36 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                You already decide what it is about

                That you decide. Either you have a revolution, and then be kind enough to find among the killed Nikolaev generals who removed it - or a specific labor dispute, and then be kind enough not to remember the red moloch in vain.
                Quote: Dart2027
                Here you are

                And this answer will make me sad. So why is Treshchenkov not a commissioner?
                Quote: Dart2027
                order

                Mayhem.
                It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department. No, not come in?
              10. Dart2027 21 February 2020 23: 16 New
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                Quote: Octopus
                Either you have a revolution, and then please be kind to find among the killed Nikolaev generals who removed it - or a specific labor dispute
                And what to look for him? Who will rule the country was argued about.
                Quote: Octopus
                So why is Treshchenkov not a commissioner?
                Was he a communist?
                Quote: Octopus
                It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department.
                AND? Stolypin was already dead, if you do not know ..
              11. mat-vey 22 February 2020 05: 48 New
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                Commissioner (from lat. Commissārius “authorized”) - the position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of a commission. An official vested with special powers by a government or an international organization, authorized, vested with sole authority. In particular, the governor, representative of the center or a person temporarily endowed with special powers. Less often - a member of the commission, most often the executive.
                Quote: Dart2027
                It seems that you were sent to the Stolypin department.
                AND? Stolypin was already dead, if you do not know ..

                What did you want to say by this?
              12. Dart2027 22 February 2020 06: 29 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of the commission

                In this sense, I don’t know. He was a captain who commanded his subordinates.
                Quote: mat-vey
                What without a stolypin
                After his death, sabotage of everything that he tried to do began.
              13. mat-vey 22 February 2020 06: 36 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                position or title of a person vested with power, or a member of the commission

                In this sense, I don’t know. He was a captain who commanded his subordinates.

                Well, it turns out that he didn’t have any special powers? Is that what he showed arbitrariness? Or did what was ordered and then he was sent away?
                Quote: Dart2027
                What without a stolypin
                After his death, sabotage of everything that he tried to do began.

                And so the media lied for any reason? And about the other mass shootings they lied the same thing? Well, what would annoy the late Stolypin?
              14. Dart2027 22 February 2020 08: 16 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                Well, it turns out I didn’t have special powers?

                What powers? He was a senior officer in that place at that time.
                Quote: mat-vey
                And about other mass shootings, the same thing lied

                The fact that an active information war was going on against the current authorities was the secret of Poshinel. Well, in this particular case, the article was published the very next day, before at least some proceedings were held.
              15. mat-vey 22 February 2020 08: 25 New
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                Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering. You are confusing articles.
                Quote: Dart2027
                The fact that in time there was an active information war against the current government

                And the authorities, well, simply didn’t give any reason whatsoever, so the Orthodox were shot at not by the fact that these Gentiles in Germany.
                Well, if the mouthpiece of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is leading such a war, then what kind of power is this.
              16. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 29 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering
                And only students care about you.
                Quote: mat-vey
                And the authorities, well, simply didn’t give any reason.

                I have had controversy on this topic several times, and for some reason it always turned out that the stories that the authorities were constantly shooting me for nothing were greatly exaggerated. The force was used, but the reasons for the use were the same.
              17. mat-vey 22 February 2020 17: 32 New
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                Quote: Dart2027
                Well, that means you can shoot at a student without bothering
                And only students care about you.

                And where do you get such conclusions?
                Well, what were the reasons for the Lensky Mine?
              18. Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 50 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                And where do you get such conclusions?
                Question mark.
              19. mat-vey 22 February 2020 18: 22 New
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                No, explain what kind of logic do you get such conclusions?
                Quote: Dart2027
                Well, what were the reasons for the Lensky Mine?
              20. Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 56 New
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                http://elib.shpl.ru/pages/3110721/zooms/7
              21. mat-vey 23 February 2020 04: 20 New
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                And you do not want to give a link to the 244 page?
              22. Dart2027 23 February 2020 13: 03 New
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                Quote: mat-vey
                And you are on page 244

                And there is also page 246, which explains that, from the point of view of the gendarmes and soldiers, the crowd continued to move.
              23. mat-vey 23 February 2020 13: 08 New
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                And a bunch of witnesses claiming the opposite .... You still write something about stakes and branches, and in general you get the picture "why should a police officer lie" and "if we find drugs."
  • Octopus 22 February 2020 09: 28 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    And what to look for him? Who will rule the country was argued about.

    Let's bliss again? In Lena mines argued about the fate of the monarchy in Russia?
    Quote: Dart2027
    Was he a communist?

    And what do I care about the political views of the mass murderer? Conditional Branwick was not a communist, then what?
    Quote: Dart2027
    Stolypin was already dead

    And what does that change? Enemies of the people wound up in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
    For your question:
    1. I decided to market. Lenzoto had some problems with such methods. It was the liberals who were then relaxed, now they would have personally accused Gunzburg of the massacre.
    2. Here is the most comprehensive report of Manukhin, enlighten.
    http://elib.shpl.ru/ru/nodes/43683-manuhin-s-s-vsepoddanneyshiy-otchet-chlena-gosudarstvennogo-soveta-senatora-taynogo-sovetnika-manuhina-po-ispolneniyu-vysochayshe-vozlozhennogo-na-nego-27-aprelya-1912-goda-rassledovaniya-o-zabastovke-na-lenskih-promyslah-spb-1912
  • Dart2027 22 February 2020 17: 38 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    Let's bliss again?
    Let's bliss again? You already decide who you are writing about the traitor generals who overthrew the tsar (though they later regretted it very much) or about LR?
    Quote: Octopus
    And what do I care about the political views of the mass murderer?
    In Russia and the USSR, the concept of commissar is associated with the Communists.
    Quote: Octopus
    Here is the most comprehensive report of Manukhin, enlighten.

    Page 237 of the report (or 249 of the total number of sheets) - the workers were going to force the release of those arrested. Have you read what you are referring to? Well, what was the captain supposed to do? Lay down a weapon? I wonder if in the US the crowd will try to storm the prison, what will the police do?
  • Octopus 22 February 2020 20: 45 New
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    Quote: Dart2027
    In Russia and the USSR, the concept of commissar is associated with the Communists.

    These communists were shot in the 37th. Again. If a person kills workers, what do I care about his political views?
    Quote: Dart2027
    You already decide who you are writing about the traitor generals who overthrew the tsar (though they later regretted it very much) or about LR?

    Again. That you decide.
    The king was filmed (late, too late). ow. Nikolai Nikolaevich, gene. Brusilov, Evert, Sakharov, Ruzsky, Vice Admirals Nepenin and Kolchak, by voting, 6 “for” (including the owner), one “abstained” (Kolchak). Not a single Lena worker, I draw your attention. So your argument about defending the Tsar and the Throne does not work.
    A specific situation developed in the mines, which in no way, in the slightest way, influenced what was happening in Petersburg. And here again - which time! - shown attitude of Nicholas and the gendarmes to vile class * - influenced, and quite.
    Quote: Dart2027
    the workers were about to force the release of those arrested.

    and?
    Quote: Dart2027
    Well, what was the captain supposed to do?

    Do not arrest them, of course. If you did stupid things - let go and move away.
    Quote: Dart2027
    I wonder if in the US the crowd will try to storm the prison, what will the police do?

    For starters, using soldiers against American citizens is a crime. Any general who has authorized it will bury himself, at least in terms of career. In a similar story - Little Steel - CHOPs (half-brothers) stood for the ORDER.
    Secondly, if some gentleman from the infantry arrives in the American town and begins to dispose of it, the sheriff will come in and ask who he is.
    Do not mix police created by citizens to protect citizens and dogs that protect the regime from citizens just.

    * vile = tax. Vile estate = taxpayers.
  • Dart2027 22 February 2020 22: 41 New
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    Quote: Octopus
    These communists were shot in the 37th. Again.
    I know.
    Quote: Octopus
    If a person kills workers, what
    This is not a matter of views, but of terminology.
    Quote: Octopus
    Do not arrest them, of course
    Arrest the crowd several times more?
    Quote: Octopus
    a similar story - Little Steel - CHOPs (half-brothers) stood for the ORDER
    That is, in the USA, bandits are following order?
    Quote: Octopus
    Secondly, if some gentleman from the infantry arrives in the American town and begins to dispose of it, the sheriff will come to him and ask
    In fact, he did not come on his own, but as an official. And by the way, the gendarme is not an army.