Netherlands intelligence document: MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on maps

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A few weeks before the trial in the case of the Malaysian Boeing, shot down in the sky over the Donbass, provided unexpected information. A group of independent journalists BM (Bonanza Media) published a document that had previously been compiled by representatives of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) of the Netherlands.

The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with such a route that was out of reach of Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, the locations of which on the maps were marked by the Ukrainian and Russian sides.



BM journalists note that the intelligence of the Netherlands (as evidenced by the document) initially had data on the exact location of the air defense system during the conflict in the Donbass.

From the material:

MH17 flew out of reach from all the places established and used by Ukraine and Russia where the Buk-M1 systems were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

According to Dutch journalist Max van der Verff, this information was previously inaccessible to the journalistic community.

The press publishes several more documents, including the one where the issue of the Ukrainian combat aircraft raised from the airfield at the time of the Malaysian Boeing’s flight in Ukraine’s airspace was raised again.

The record of a conversation between Dutch investigators and an unnamed witness who stated about the Ukrainian Air Force planes appeared in that area in a minute for the tragedy with the Boeing.

Bonanza Media Group claims that all the documents they have are authentic.

Representatives of the Dutch investigation at the moment did not comment on these publications.
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    162 comments
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    1. +8
      18 February 2020 06: 46
      It is possible that this is stuffing. Need verification. Yes, and "marked on the maps" - also raises questions. And if they were unmarked?
      1. -2
        18 February 2020 07: 03
        Quote: Pavel73
        It is possible that this is a stuffing.
        Absolutely a throw-in. Previously, stuffing of this type appeared at press conferences about the course of the investigation, now - before the imminent start of the trial. Their task is very simple - to throw in a lot of garbage so that one gets the feeling that "nothing is known for sure, this is a dark matter." The media are now vilified with this for some time, as with the "ultimatum of Joseph Resch", and then just as suddenly they will forget.
        1. +11
          18 February 2020 07: 07
          I agree. But the fact that Ukrainian prosecutors were suspended from work on the investigation of MH17 under the pretext of "anti-corruption reform" is much more interesting.
          1. +4
            18 February 2020 08: 54
            Quote: Pavel73
            Ukrainian prosecutors were suspended from work on the investigation of MH17 under the pretext of "anti-corruption reform", which is much more interesting.

            710 prosecutors were dismissed in Ukraine during the purge, "Dutch" ones were replaced by others
            1. +4
              18 February 2020 17: 03
              cleaned up unfavorable? were afraid to hear the truth?
              Quote: Silvestr
              710 prosecutors were removed, the "Dutch" ones were replaced by other
        2. +3
          18 February 2020 07: 45
          It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?
          1. -12
            18 February 2020 07: 48
            Quote: aleks_29296
            It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. Does not fit with official charges
            So it is not officially accused throwing. And guess who twice.
            1. +19
              18 February 2020 07: 55
              Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
              And guess who twice.

              I can’t guess.
              Enlighten, do not let die dark!
              Actually, the perpetrators have long been APPOINTED.
              It is clear that this "bloody Putin" personally ordered and wrote the inscription!
              Actually, it’s because they’ve been investigating for 6 years that they know who is to blame, but it needs to be proved that Russia is to blame, but there is no sane proof.
              1. -24
                18 February 2020 07: 58
                Quote: Victor_B
                Enlighten, do not let die dark!
                No, that’s not interesting. Live and suffer in ignorance. wink
                1. +10
                  18 February 2020 08: 00
                  Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                  Live and suffer in ignorance.

                  I will survive.
          2. -3
            18 February 2020 07: 52
            Quote: aleks_29296
            what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down from the slingshot or what?

            From BUK and shot down judging by the striking elements of the missile. The report published by the management of the Almaz-Antey concern testifies that the Malaysian liner was shot down by the Buk-M1 complex. By the nature of the holes in the fragments of the aircraft fuselage, on the basis of damage analysis, it was concluded that in this case, a 9M38M or 9M38M1 missile with a 9M314 or 9M314M1 warhead was used. According to experts, only in them the striking elements have the shape of an "I-beam". A copy of the restored form of the original of the Russian Ministry of Defense was found after the missile wreckage from the BUK was presented on display.
            In my opinion, Ukrainians could ground the Boeing, since at that time they were engaged in exercises using BUKs. Moreover, at that time there was information about the presence of the SU-25 militia, given the amazing opportunity for military equipment to fall into the hands of the militia, BUKs were in operation.
            1. 0
              18 February 2020 07: 58
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              A copy from the restored form of the original of the Ministry of Defense of Russia was found after the wreckage of the missile from the BUK was presented for review.

              It seems that this fragment of a rocket has already been hidden under the pretext that it is not a fact that it was from the scene of the disaster.
              Type of error came out.
              1. +2
                18 February 2020 08: 05
                From the very beginning, the Ministry of Defense had to blame everything on the Ukrainians, to say that they conducted exercises and ended up in a Boeing. Moreover, they had reason for the teachings.
                The forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic launched an air strike against Ukrainian troops using a captured Su-25 attack aircraft, militias report. "Well! With the initiative of the Lugansk Air Force! The first blow of Lugansk drying in the Aleksandrovka area! The flight is normal. Information on the results of the raid is being specified, according to preliminary data, our pilot worked filigree "

                https://vz.ru/news/2014/7/13/695344.html
                1. +3
                  18 February 2020 08: 10
                  Quote: Bashkirkhan
                  to say that they conducted the exercises and ended up in a Boeing.

                  What are the teachings?
                  The divisions were deployed in battle formations and were waiting for the attack of Russian aviation.
                  And, if my memory serves me right, one Su-25 flew over to the Donetsk team and, like once, even flew into the APU bombing.
                  So that no teachings! In combat they were deployed. And they were completely ready to shoot, their radar stations were regularly broadcast.
                2. +4
                  18 February 2020 09: 49
                  Quote: Bashkirkhan
                  Moreover, they had reason for the teachings.
                  The forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic launched an air strike against Ukrainian troops using a captured Su-25 attack aircraft, militias report. "Well! With the initiative of the Lugansk Air Force! The first blow of Lugansk drying in the Aleksandrovka area! The flight is normal. Information on the results of the raid is being specified, according to preliminary data, our pilot worked filigree "

                  https://vz.ru/news/2014/7/13/695344.html

                  then wrote a lot of things
                  1. +1
                    18 February 2020 11: 02
                    This version of the capture of the Ukrainian BUK, in my opinion, is not consistent. There were bare reports about this, including in the central Russian media, but, mind you, there is not a single photo of this captured BUK, just as there is nothing about his future fate. In addition and APU reported. that there was no capture. There is a version that these messages were only a cover for the transfer of our BUK under Snezhnoye. In case of capture.
                    1. 0
                      18 February 2020 11: 50
                      No. Then, when it is captured, the Ukrainian authorities will immediately show the serial numbers of the machine and its units. Or the fact that they were shot down / killed.
                  2. kig
                    +2
                    19 February 2020 03: 50
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    then wrote a lot of things

                    This is exactly


                    Subsequently, obviously, many regretted their talkativeness.
            2. 0
              18 February 2020 09: 24
              I read in those days in Ukrainian Wikipedia publication interesting information ... It turns out that Ukraine GENERALLY Beeches were not in service))) Well, this is according to THEIR version. In general, a lot of strange. On the day of the crash of the Boeing, the Ukrainian side banned all flights in that area - this is the first. Second - on the eve of intense flights of the Ukrainian Air Force. In short - questions, questions ...
              1. -2
                18 February 2020 09: 33
                Not just beeches, but beech of this version
                1. 0
                  18 February 2020 10: 51
                  Then there was no talk about the "version" at all. This was in 2014, right after the Boeing was shot down. In the operating countries of Buk, Ukraine was not listed in the Ukrainian version of the wiki.
              2. +2
                18 February 2020 11: 26
                Quote: Narcolog
                In those days, I read interesting information in the Ukrainian edition of Wikipedia ... It turns out that Ukraine did NOT consist of beeches in service))) Well, this is THEIR version.

                And a day before the tragedy, in their military broadcast, they show these beeches at the airfield in Kramatorsk. Moreover, "Buki" were on trailers. So, by the way, from the airfield to the site of the tragedy, in a straight line 72 km. Taking into account what they write about the range of use of the Bug air defense missile system of 25 kilometers, it is not very difficult to bring the installation of fifty kilometers to where this range is enough and return it back.
                1. +1
                  18 February 2020 12: 31
                  Here the point is different. Even BEFORE the tragedy, the Armed Forces of Ukraine boasted that they had installed three Bukov divisions on the base in the Donbas. And then suddenly - "not in service." I myself would not have paid attention to this, if it were not for one horse, stubbornly proving to me that "well, there are no Buks in Ukraine!" And then he also gave a link to the Ukrainian edition of the wiki. I looked - and for sure. I couldn't believe my eyes. It was literally the day after the Boeing crash.
            3. 0
              18 February 2020 11: 59
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              In my opinion, Ukrainians could ground the Boeing, since at that time they were engaged in exercises using BUKs.

              This version is supported by a target plane "shot down" by the militias (jet TUSHKA, I do not remember the index) on the day of the destruction of Boeing. In the photo, this target looked like it landed safely on a collective farm field without visible damage. Most likely, there was a technical malfunction or, even more likely, an incomplete refueling.
              If the participants in the exercises received information about the launch of the target, and the target plopped down before reaching the affected area, they began to search for it and the Boeing, which had turned up inappropriately, was taken for the target.
              And the Su-25 with air-to-air missiles also fits into this version. It could have been kept in the air in case the target was missed by the air defense and went "wrong" to eliminate it.
            4. 0
              18 February 2020 22: 58
              From the BUK and shot down judging by the damaging elements of the rocket.
              There are some nuances. Immediately a bunch of photos of the wreckage were published, I then downloaded two hundred of them (disappeared, the hard drive crashed). Casing of the cockpit, left side. There are a lot of holes from large fragments (there immediately after the accident, they were intensively processed with art for many days) and round holes for the caliber of an aircraft gun. BUT from the damaging elements of anti-aircraft missiles no. Right wing, traces from the rods of an aircraft rocket. They took away, two years later presented the same skin to the left side of the cab, already with holes from the anti-aircraft missile.
          3. +7
            18 February 2020 08: 19
            Quote: aleks_29296
            It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

            Just very fit. They say the military of Ukraine could not bring down, which means it was hit by a Buk secretly imported from Russia, which the Russians, of course, did not mark on the map.
          4. -4
            18 February 2020 09: 24
            Quote: aleks_29296
            It does not fit with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

            In my opinion, it even fits - they write
            MH17 flew out of range of all installed and used Ukraine and Russia places where Buk-M1 complexes were located

            those. Ukraine and Russia couldn’t, but it only remains, supposedly, the DPR.

            This is before the so-called "court they show off.

            I think. Russia has nothing to do there: the court is illegitimate, biased and biased. on him negative
          5. 0
            18 February 2020 11: 47
            The stuffing, perhaps true. A deliberate information leak strictly dosed by the Dutch secret services. The goal is to prepare public opinion in the West for the court and its results. To soften the effect of an exploding bomb.
    2. +1
      18 February 2020 06: 47
      What a twist! Although, little will change. Anyway, Russia is guilty, well, at least something :)
      1. +31
        18 February 2020 07: 08
        Russia is guilty of being innocent wassat
    3. +9
      18 February 2020 06: 48
      So understand these Dutch ... What are they investigating and how? Throw one (ONE !!!) launcher specifically to bring down this unfortunate Boeing that had never flown in the area before ... But there was no a priori logic in the reasoning of the investigation ... The task had to be solved. On charges - only now whom? Russia? LDNR?
      1. +7
        18 February 2020 06: 51
        And how are the Dutch going to judge Russia with such raw material?
        Lies will not bring them to good.
        1. +6
          18 February 2020 07: 08
          the legalization of drugs will definitely not bring to good, the whole country is stoned
          1. -10
            18 February 2020 07: 26
            We would have to live under such a high, rather tough people and policemen on the road are much tougher than in Germany.
        2. 0
          18 February 2020 07: 59
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          And how with such raw material the Dutch are going to judge

          Who are the judges? (from)
      2. -3
        18 February 2020 07: 47
        Personally, my opinion is that this is really very similar to a stuffing. But, on the other hand, this stuffing can play into our hands - now the ball is being thrown to the territory of the leadership of the LPR. Like, answer yourself what you could pull into the sky there. On purpose or by accident ...
        1. +4
          18 February 2020 09: 00
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          indeed, very similar to the stuffing.

          without a doubt. Who on hand is not clear. According to the laws of the Netherlands, nothing can be given to the press before the trial, because what has been said ceases to be proof
      3. KCA
        0
        18 February 2020 08: 27
        It was necessary to know exactly when and on what route the MH17 would fly; a single Buk M1 missile launcher has a much shorter detection and targeting range than a Buk complex, especially since civilian aircraft fly at an altitude of more than 10 km
    4. +6
      18 February 2020 06: 49
      MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense system
      Someone can tell exactly what, or by whom, this poor Boeing was shot down?
      1. 0
        18 February 2020 07: 08
        Volodya, was there a Boeing ?? hi
        1. +1
          18 February 2020 07: 15
          Roma hi Debris, bodies, were ... Didn’t they bring them?
          1. -2
            18 February 2020 07: 15
            but already not sure .. request
      2. +7
        18 February 2020 07: 30
        Our designer of beech missiles said exactly with the accuracy of recognizing a lot of small cross-shaped holes with an entrance from the outside of the casing from the striking elements and immediately said that now Russia is not cruciform, all have been replaced with a different type. The old type remained only in Ukraine. I consider this to be true. The creator recognized his creation.
        1. -1
          18 February 2020 12: 06
          Quote: Finn
          now not cruciform in Russia, all replaced by another type

          Of course it's true. But is it true?
          After all, striking elements in the form of an I-beam can be used in some SAMs of foreign manufacturers. And not only in surface-to-air missiles, but also in air-to-air missiles.
          1. 0
            18 February 2020 18: 56
            A parallelepiped in an air-to-air rocket.
            1. 0
              18 February 2020 23: 01
              The rods, a few dozen.
      3. +2
        18 February 2020 07: 48
        "Almaz - Antey" said - "beech". Now a question about Shakespeare - where did he come from?
        1. -1
          18 February 2020 08: 02
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          "Almaz - Antey" said - "beech".

          Moreover, he said - BOOK OLD which Russia does not have! At all!
          1. +6
            18 February 2020 09: 11
            Quote: Victor_B
            Moreover, he said - BOOK OLD which Russia does not have! At all!

        2. +5
          18 February 2020 09: 25
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          "Almaz - Antey" said - "beech".

          Did "Tass" and "Vesti" lie?

          1. 0
            18 February 2020 23: 04
            They didn’t lie, only those Buki were no longer subject to resuscitation.
        3. +1
          18 February 2020 13: 19
          Not exactly, AA wrote "IF it was a Buk, then only a 9M38 rocket ..."
          This "if" is fundamentally important. AA simulated the conditions and consequences of the defeat of missiles and came to the conclusion that, if there was a missile, it could only be 9M38.
          1. +2
            18 February 2020 14: 14
            Quote: KelWin
            if the rocket was, then it could only be 9M38.

            you are wrong: in the first conclusion, AA stated ..


            then disowned his words
            1. +1
              18 February 2020 15: 08
              Here we were talking about the final report, I did not specify, I am to blame. It is there that this "if" clause is present, and since the report was made on the basis of a natural experiment, IMHO, grounds for this clause were found. For example, that this is not a SAM at all ...
    5. +10
      18 February 2020 06: 51
      To be frank - in a war, as in a war - but the Ukrainian authorities and the children who ruled them from one lovely place from the state of Virginia are definitely to blame! First, they teach the militias to the idea of ​​air raids, constantly sending flyers to the area of ​​contact and keeping air defense in good shape, and then bam, they deliberately bring a civilian plane into the combat zone .... Naturally, they shoot him down - who? This is not the most important thing anymore! This is a private performing his duties at a combat post! The main culprit who organized all this - and organized it in Washington! And everyone knows this very well - that's why everything else is a performance! As well as the investigation, as well as the court ... If only Turchinov or Putin had come up with this, the investigation would have been completed in two days, but this was invented in the White House - therefore "the music will last forever if the batteries are charged!" laughing
      1. 0
        18 February 2020 06: 56
        Cunningly! First, they say the Washington had planned something, and then the militias shot down. And how long did you think before putting such heresy?
        1. +11
          18 February 2020 06: 57
          Have you tried to read carefully? Or was it enough to comprehend only the first sentence of the mind? I'm sorry hi
          1. -2
            18 February 2020 07: 03
            Why, there, I forgive. hi
        2. -4
          18 February 2020 08: 01
          Have you stored vouchers for a long time? Or did you immediately buy Gazprom?
      2. +11
        18 February 2020 07: 11
        Quote: Finches
        kids driving them from one nice little place from Virginia! First, they teach the militias to think about air raids, constantly sending letaki to the contact area and keeping air defense systems in good shape, and then bam, they specially bring the civilian side into the combat zone .... Naturally, it is shot down - who? This is not the most important thing! This is an ordinary soldier at a military post! The main culprit, who

        And consider the reverse situation?
        Dill letaki began to shoot down more and more often. The panicky rumors about the Russian twists that knocked them down led Banderstan leaders to think that it was necessary to move the air defense to this area ... And they moved it. Further, everything is clear ... Krivorukovy air defense personnel planted a missile at the largest mark on the radar. If at that time there was also a Ukrainian plane in the air - then their reaction is even more understandable - the Russian instant is attacking defenseless drying ...
        1. +4
          18 February 2020 07: 28
          All wrong. Blood from the nose, a provocation was needed against Russia. And if Boeing was not there, it would have been invented.
        2. +1
          18 February 2020 11: 17
          There was in those moments a lot of ukrobreda rro "constant attacks of RF aircraft"
      3. -10
        18 February 2020 07: 32
        Quote: Finches
        To be honest
        I wonder why frank need to be only sometimes, at some special moments? To trick anyone the rest of the time?

        The effect? The Dutch? So they are well aware of the price of all this cunning and are not being fooled by it for even a second. World public opinion? So it also doesn’t make any noticeable impression on him because of the general clumsiness. Who then are the most naive citizens of Russia? What for?
        1. +2
          18 February 2020 07: 41
          Naive citizens of Ukraine ... And about openness there may be other reasons, for example, a non-disclosure subscription ... laughing
          1. -8
            18 February 2020 07: 56
            Quote: Finches
            Naive citizens of Ukraine ...
            Something I doubt that this works, and naive citizens of Ukraine prefer to believe Russian statements that they shot down a Boeing, and not the Dutch investigation. As for the subscriptions, there are so many people pretending to be hoses (with occasionally eruptive moments of frankness) that doubts arise as if they are all sitting under subscriptions, well, moments of frankness and subscription are poorly combined.
            1. +3
              18 February 2020 08: 02
              To doubt it is your right! hi
            2. +5
              18 February 2020 08: 08
              Vyacheslav Viktorovich (Vyacheslav)
              Something I doubt that this works, and naive citizens of Ukraine prefer to believe Russian statements that they shot down a Boeing, and not the Dutch investigation.
              And we all, in your opinion, should, and what should there, be simply obliged to believe the impolite Dutch investigation?
              Want to say that all the same, Russia shot down a Boeing? Then the question is, why the hell for Russia to bring down this ill-fated Boeing? Is it such a kind of HPP that we are specifically sanctioned?
              1. -5
                18 February 2020 08: 59
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Then the question is, why the hell for Russia to bring down this ill-fated Boeing?
                By mistake. The milling machine operator doesn’t have to cut off his fingers with a machine tool, but they cut it off.
      4. kig
        +1
        19 February 2020 06: 01
        Quote: Finches
        and then bam, specially bring civilian board into the combat zone.

        Many for some reason continue to broadcast that the unfortunate Boeing was specifically sent there. Meanwhile, it was quite an official international route, and the flight plan was drawn up by the Malay lines, based on the available information. At that time, the only restriction imposed by Ukraine was to keep the height in this zone more than 32000 feet. On July 17, only ML carried out seven flights along this route, and on average 260 flights per day passed through this zone. So, in general, no one understood the seriousness of the situation. Including the Netherlands. Between July 14, when An-6500 was shot down at an altitude of 26 m and it became clear that new weapons appeared in the zone - and on July 17, 60 airlines from 32 countries continued to use the zone. Including Russian. Ukraine did not introduce a ban on civilian flights, this is true, but no one specifically substituted Boeing for missiles. A slight change in altitude and course shortly before the disaster, which many people like to refer to, was made at the request of the crew to get around the weather.
        1. -1
          19 February 2020 06: 18
          That's just the point - the main thing is not to cover the sky and some Boeing will surely come across, especially if you irritate the forces and means of air defense! This is a pure invention of overseas children! And far from the first freshness!
          1. kig
            0
            19 February 2020 08: 44
            That is, you believe that those who were nervous about air raids, that is, militias, were shot down?
    6. +2
      18 February 2020 06: 53
      And how to understand this ?! It turns out that Ukraine’s air defense is full of holes? Even for a civilian plane? Something is not right here!
      1. +1
        18 February 2020 08: 11
        There is not only a hole full of air defense, there the whole country is full of holes and is very proud of it. You can forget about their air defense for a long time, even from the time when they Tu-154 failed in 2001.
    7. -8
      18 February 2020 06: 57
      Ordinary nothing worthwhile stuffing.
      What is hit by a beech is clear to everyone, including the Russian Defense Ministry.
    8. +19
      18 February 2020 07: 02
      If not Buk knocked down, then who then? After all, the pilot Voloshin didn’t shoot down either, he simply lost his ammunition in flight, then quit and became the director of the airport, became sad over the sky and killed himself from longing.
      1. -11
        18 February 2020 07: 17
        How could the pilot Voloshin fly unnoticed by the radars of the Rostov air hub? Russia released its primary raw data, according to them, there were no other aircraft near Boeing.
    9. -17
      18 February 2020 07: 02
      MH17 flew out of range from all installed and used Ukraine and Russia places where Buk-M1 complexes were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

      The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with a route that was out of reach of the Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, placements of which are marked on the maps Ukrainian and Russian by the parties.

      Those who will accept the point of view of the authenticity of this document, do not forget that it also recognizes that Russia used Buki in the Donbass, and even notified other states about it.
      1. +10
        18 February 2020 07: 10
        Quote: pru-pavel
        Those who will accept the point of view of the authenticity of this document, do not forget that it also recognizes that Russia used Buki in the Donbas

        Nothing of the kind that you wrote is recognized there. This is not about "using" the "Buk", but about the marks on the cards and recriminations. Marks from Russia, as is known, indicate that Ukrainian Buks were stationed in the Zaroshchenskoye area.
        1. -14
          18 February 2020 07: 30
          Where is it written that this is exactly what it is about? Or is it you only see what you want to see?
          1. +8
            18 February 2020 07: 41
            Quote: pru-pavel
            Where is it written that this is exactly what it is about?

            The Dutch SVR document published by BN.
            Quote: pru-pavel
            Or is it you only see what you want to see?

            And address this question to begin with yourself.
            1. -15
              18 February 2020 07: 45
              Quote: Volodin
              The Dutch SVR document published by BN.

              Proofs and quotes, as I understand it will not.
              1. +7
                18 February 2020 08: 11
                Quote: pru-pavel
                Proofs and quotes, as I understand it will not.

                https://mailchi.mp/69054d39ee63/bonanzamedia-newsletter-2?e=bdec9af591
                https://maxfromthewharf.com/5510-2/
                Specify all additional questions interesting you in SVR of the Netherlands
                1. -12
                  18 February 2020 08: 30
                  https://mailchi.mp/69054d39ee63/bonanzamedia-newsletter-2?e=bdec9af591
                  https://maxfromthewharf.com/5510-2/
                  Drop dead. They are called "Dutch journalist Max Van Der Werff", and the page code contains pieces of our native Yandex. Well, how can you work so clumsy? And then you have to pretend to be unconventional fitness instructors on TV.
                  1. +14
                    18 February 2020 08: 38
                    Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                    Drop dead. They are called "Dutch journalist Max Van Der Werff", and the page code contains pieces of our native Yandex.

                    Don't include the "whistleblower" here. 15% of sites in Europe (outside Russia) have Yandex codes. Yandex: place of registration - the Netherlands.
                    1. -6
                      18 February 2020 08: 58
                      Quote: Volodin
                      15% of European sites (outside Russia) have Yandex codes. "
                      Is this statement based on anything or taken straight from the ceiling?
                      1. +6
                        18 February 2020 09: 24
                        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                        Is this statement based on anything or taken straight from the ceiling?

                        On the January report of the company. Next time, do not be lazy and check out the official statistics by accrediting to the final event for the press and the public.
                        1. -4
                          18 February 2020 09: 29
                          Is it published on the Internet?
                        2. 0
                          18 February 2020 10: 07
                          Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                          Is it published on the Internet?

                          As they say, with a high degree of probability. Look for
                        3. The comment was deleted.
                        4. The comment was deleted.
                        5. 0
                          18 February 2020 13: 43
                          look for a scan of Yandex.Books (this is about the story of Yandex, there seems to be a chapter on why they registered in the Netherlands) ... probably lies somewhere ... or just buy on ozone ...
                  2. +3
                    18 February 2020 12: 10
                    Here is a revelation :) ...
                    They learned to use the console, but what is a subdomain you don’t already know the second level :)? In my opinion you are deliberately lying.
                    If you are the owner of the list-manage.com domain, then you can create subdomains on it at least yandex.list-manage.com at least huyandex.list-manage.com

                    And you can see who the owner of the list-manage.com domain is in who.is and he is far from Moscow time and not at the KGB registered.

                    NameSharon Rosenbaum
                    OrganizationTHE ROCKET SCIENCE GROUP LLC
                    Address675 Ponce De Leon Ave
                    CityAtlanta
                    State/ProvinceGeorgia
                    Postal Code30308
                    Countryus
                    Phone + 1.6789990141
                    Fax + 1.6789990142

                    https://who.is/whois/list-manage.com
                    1. 0
                      18 February 2020 12: 42
                      And the combination of the letters "yandex" in the subdomain, of course, arose purely by chance, and has nothing to do with the solutions from Yandex, well, or the Dutch journalist wanted for some unknown reason to create the impression that he is using webmastering tools from a popular service in Russia ...

                      However, this conversation no longer makes sense, I found the film "MH17 - Call for Justice", which was made by the same Dutch journalist. And it was made together with Yana Yerlashova, ex-screenwriter and producer of RT. Everything that is called lies right in plain sight.
                      1. -1
                        18 February 2020 15: 52

                        This is a visualization of the attitude of your esteemed opponents to the issue.
                      2. +1
                        18 February 2020 16: 02
                        Does Topwar work for the CIA?
    10. +2
      18 February 2020 07: 04
      I wanted to ask a question - What was that? ... it seems necessary to ask - What is this ??? ... or not?
      will that trial be or will the case be postponed somewhere there, to a distant box?
      It’s not clear.
      1. -7
        18 February 2020 07: 19
        March 9 the beginning of the trial. What is not clear?
        1. +2
          18 February 2020 07: 45
          In principle, media information may not affect anything ... we'll see.
        2. -1
          18 February 2020 12: 51
          They want to convict Russia .. Therefore, on March 9, not the beginning of the trial, but the beginning of the Circus performance with the appointment of the culprit at the request of the United States! So it will be more accurate ..
          1. +1
            18 February 2020 12: 55
            Quote: FORCE 38RUS
            want to plead guilty
            Quote: FORCE 38RUS
            the appointment of the perpetrator
            These are emotional sobs that do not carry meaningful content. The question is who shot down and whether the court decision adequately reflects objective reality. Whoever wants or does not want there, wants it badly or not much - this objective reality does not change.
      2. 0
        18 February 2020 07: 23
        It seems to me that they will now declare that Russia was shot down from its territory with the help of the S-300 or S-200.
        1. +4
          18 February 2020 07: 47
          Let's wait for "the devil out of the snuff box" on one side, or "joker in the sleeve" on the other side !!!
          In general, we will see.
    11. -3
      18 February 2020 07: 12
      The Boeing Mn17 was to fall according to the CIA’s intentions precisely on the territory of Ukraine, so that it would be impossible to investigate honestly and openly. (We recall the shelling of Ukraine at the crash site) After hitting the Ukrainian Buk, MH17 continued flight planning. There was a threat that his wreckage or he would fly to the Russian Federation. Then I had to raise the plane of the Ukrainian air force to finish off and to fall on the territory of Ukraine.
      1. +5
        18 February 2020 07: 41
        yeah ... you can’t hold fantasies ...
        1. 0
          18 February 2020 07: 44
          And Voloshin did not interrogate ... died ...
      2. +3
        18 February 2020 08: 01
        Yes, there was no CIA plan! Rather, he was and is, but that is not at all this. Americans are not stupid enough to plan such provocations themselves. Why, if they have dolls that are happy to do this and do it. And they will sincerely think that by doing so they defend their homeland. The Americans don’t give a damn what exactly will happen: will they bomb the trolleybus, will they sink the pleasure boat or will they knock down the passenger airliner. Americans don’t give a damn whether this will happen erroneously or intentionally. Americans don’t give a damn who exactly will do this: frostbitten Bandera, the Ukrainian army, Donetsk militias or the Russian army. It is only important for Americans that a slow-moving war continues in the center of Europe, and that no one wins this war for as long as possible. Thus, the region covered by this war turns into an insurmountable barrier between Russia and Europe. And it hinders their economic integration. Therefore, Americans with the help of hints, winks, rewards and small cash infusions carefully quietly push their wards to commit such stupid actions. Prevent rapprochement between Russia and Europe! They just eliminate the competitor. Nothing personal just business.
        1. 0
          18 February 2020 08: 28
          DO NOT la la la .. In the country, 404 the CIA gave an entire floor.
    12. +2
      18 February 2020 07: 14
      Bonanza Media Group claims that all the documents they have are authentic.
      And for an exclusively politicized "investigation" with the aim of accusing Russia, the authenticity of the documents does not matter. Although after the appearance of such information, questions will only increase. But will they affect the decision of the "court"?
    13. -6
      18 February 2020 07: 25
      And yet this is stuffing. Now our jingoistic patriots will shout "aha, these are Ukrainians and pilot Voloshin!" And the Dutch will officially refute and say that this is stuffing. And the patriots will begin a psychological breakdown. The Dutch themselves threw it in. On purpose.
      1. -9
        18 February 2020 08: 12
        Quote: Pavel73
        And the Dutch will officially refute and say that this is a stuffing. And the patriots will begin psychological breakdown.
        Patriots have long moved to a world that does not depend on what the Dutch say at all - they always tell lies in it. So this is a weak theory.
    14. kig
      +9
      18 February 2020 07: 27
      The task for the student. Given:
      - the plane was shot down by Buk
      - Beeches located in well-known places do not reach the plane.
      Question: from what place did Buk start, which shot down the plane?
      (hint: Beech - self-propelled complex)
      1. +1
        18 February 2020 07: 30
        From the unknown and unmarked on the maps. I got it myself.
      2. +1
        18 February 2020 07: 36
        The answer is ready! The plane was shot down by Russian ,, agressors ,,. The place and circumstances, meanings, do not matter.
        1. 0
          18 February 2020 12: 54
          laughing laughing laughing I respect subtle humor! :) plus you .. have fun .. good
      3. +1
        18 February 2020 12: 36

        "Problem for a student. Given .." ///
        ----
        Absolutely right laughing
        And even on wagons carry them, if far.
    15. 0
      18 February 2020 07: 28
      The question is very simple: where did the journalists get these papers? After all, they are secret. Really NATO military just throwing them like that?
      1. +7
        18 February 2020 07: 44
        Quote: Pavel73
        The question is very simple: where did the journalists get these papers? After all, they are secret.

        Well, Bellingcat's secret papers somehow somehow are constantly at the disposal ...
        If more than one person knows about the existence of a secret paper, sooner or later it ceases to be secret.
        1. -2
          18 February 2020 09: 05
          Quote: Volodin
          Well, Bellingcat's secret papers somehow somehow are constantly at the disposal ...
          For instance? And then for memory there they always somehow have data from open sources.
          1. +3
            18 February 2020 09: 24
            For example, Wikilix (have you been to such a site at least once?) Was engaged in the purchase of such leaks and the subsequent publication of which Assange was closed. Politicians at the core use such leaks for the undercover struggle and what popped up there neither you nor anyone else will most likely never see. In the past, such leaks have led, for example, to Watergate and the like.
            1. -2
              18 February 2020 09: 26
              I don’t know what question you answered, but obviously not mine.
        2. +2
          18 February 2020 09: 16
          Quote: Volodin
          Bellingcat, on the other hand, secret papers are somehow always at the disposal of ...

          they are the same journalist as the astronaut. This is just a cover for a completely legal office. There are no former scouts
    16. -3
      18 February 2020 07: 34
      And with such materials, they gathered in court? ... Geyropa degrades ...
    17. +1
      18 February 2020 07: 41
      Do not go to a fortuneteller, CE GDP, PERSONALLY, at the helm of drying, on the tail led ... fool
    18. -2
      18 February 2020 07: 44
      Jaye if not stuffing, the court may not take into account this Old.
    19. ANB
      +1
      18 February 2020 08: 13
      The court in the Netherlands is somehow strange.
      The accused were people who, according to "evidence" from social networks, can only be accused of bringing Buk to Ukraine. Incidentally, no charges have been filed officially. And to whom to present them if only the first and last names are announced. That is, the identity has not been established.
      Question: what article of the Criminal Code Netherlands violated the "accused"?
      Or will it be civil proceedings?
    20. The comment was deleted.
    21. +1
      18 February 2020 08: 20
      Well, the province went to write, in such a way you can suck this topic for another five years, but you can’t see the end and edge.
    22. +5
      18 February 2020 08: 21
      According to Dutch journalist Max van der Verff, this information was previously inaccessible to the journalistic community.

      Looks like Trump decided to pierce the "Obama umbrella" over Ukraine.
      In the Western media, shots suddenly appeared with comments on the true events on the "Maidan", which Russia has been showing for 5 years.
      Now this "surprise" of the Netherlands GRU with MH-17. Trump embarked on the path of revenge on the "democrats" for all his humiliation on their part. Surely, closer to the elections, he will open many more "surprises" in the activities of the Obama team ..
      1. +1
        18 February 2020 08: 47
        Vo-in, right now, and Petro will be dragging the courts for the fake evidence of the “Trump-RF connection” that he sent Clinton ... Trump remembers everything.
    23. +1
      18 February 2020 08: 31
      Well, let it be the Beech, which is not marked on the cards. A sort of complex - a ghost, assembled in a garage from parts removed from the factory. (Sarcasm). But it should be deployed in advance at the point where the plane will be LATER. It cannot be otherwise.
      Maybe some new Khun Sa flew this flight, for which it’s not a pity to drop the plane.
    24. +2
      18 February 2020 08: 49
      It seems that the intelligence officers of the Netherlands are hired by the announcement.
      All of their statements are very interesting, at first they saw Russian Buki everywhere, showed fake movies and photos, didn’t fail, dragged a piece of a rocket - look, Russian !!! Then they got into a puddle, it turned out to be Ukrainian. They measured and poked fingers at the holes from the striking elements of the rocket - here it is the Russian trace, again a misfire, these rockets were removed from armament and dismantled.
      Now a new intro from Washington - there were no Beeches anywhere ...
      Then, please forgive me, what did the Russian citizens accused of you bring down the Boeing?
      Were shot from slingshots?
      Well, since you blame them.
      MANPADS Needle and Arrow will not reach there.
      Lied for good!
    25. -2
      18 February 2020 08: 53
      The Dutch have long and tightly sat on "grass", which is legalized in their country. Therefore, all statements by their prosecutors, courts and special services should be taken into account only with certificates of testing for nonsense by their authors laughing
    26. -1
      18 February 2020 09: 00
      MH17 flew out of reach from all the places established and used by Ukraine and Russia where the Buk-M1 systems were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

      Would have published this data before five and a half years of hysteria in Russia would not have been.
    27. 0
      18 February 2020 09: 04
      One sentence, but how does the meaning change "Not a single Buk air defense missile system was near the Boeing crash site." What distance Boeing flew after the defeat is unknown with what?
    28. +5
      18 February 2020 09: 13
      21st century ... as if ...
      but no photo of documents, no literal text ....

      There will be again in the media those 2 pilots, 2 airplanes, 2 dispatchers, and Poroshenko’s record, where he personally persuades the pilots to shoot better !!!!

      And in Tass et al. There is still news about the downed Ana on the site
    29. +1
      18 February 2020 09: 50
      Quote: aleks_29296
      It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

      TASS reports! Witnesses said that two planes were spotted in that area, after which there was an explosion and crash of a Boeing. The inversion trace left by the BUK missile was not visible.
    30. -1
      18 February 2020 10: 17
      The intelligence satellite between the moments of control leaves a window for an hour and a half, at least, in general, space intelligence does not know who could go where during this period, someone may know, but is silent (if they were absent, then not those). A legitimate court will not care if the Russian Federation is accused, if they do not allow the defense representing the Russian Federation to ask questions and give their arguments, all the more publicly, if only with self-proclaimed representatives of the interests of the Russian Federation they will arrange a cheap performance for round idiots.
    31. 0
      18 February 2020 10: 44
      Netherlands intelligence document: MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on maps
      They smoked, and the golan fake. bully
    32. +4
      18 February 2020 10: 58
      And what to do with such information: ???
      "The Joint Investigation Group (JIT) - the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Ukraine, Belgium - at one time discovered and showed parts of the 9M38 missile from the Buk missile launcher found near the Boeing crash site - an engine and a nozzle with their own individual serial numbers. And thus allowed the Russian Ministry of Defense to collect irrefutable evidence.

      According to the documentation of the Buk manufacturer - Dolgoprudny Research and Production Enterprise - it was possible to establish that these engine and nozzle were supplied to the 9M38 factory product with serial number 8868720, where the first 8 is the enterprise code, 86 is the year of manufacture, and 8720 is factory serial number. The rocket was assembled on December 24, 1986, received the side (combat) number 886847379, and after only 5 days, on December 29, it was sent by rail to the place of service, to the military unit 20152 in the Ukrainian SSR .. Where it was put into service in early 1987 . "
      The Netherlands even found pieces of Buk missiles with serial numbers.
      1. +1
        18 February 2020 11: 41
        Quote: Olya Tsako
        Where she entered service in early 1987. "

        From that military unit
        Yushchenko before 08.08.08 transferred / sold the division of Georgia. As our trophies are officially listed 2 combat-ready installations along with missiles
        1. +1
          18 February 2020 12: 04
          You are in the Ukroinformational Agency, you have completely lost your scent "As our trophies, there are officially 2 combat-ready installations along with missiles"
          Who will believe you Ukropagonams? "OUR TROPHIES" Is it dead?
          1. +3
            18 February 2020 14: 12
            Quote: Olya Tsako
            You are at the Ukroinformatsionny Agency, you have completely lost your scent "As

            how much pathos and stomping! You don't even read the "Red Star" of the RF Ministry of Defense!

            http://old.redstar.ru/2008/10/08_10/2_03.html
            “... There, in addition to the wrecked trucks, we found a whole battery of Buk air defense missile systems. Two launchers were covered with protective tarpaulins, and two self-propelled firing units with antenna complexes were driven into the boxes.
            - I know very well what these anti-aircraft missile systems are capable of with skillful control, - Major Vitaly Baranchikov recalls those events.
            Further, I think, you can read?
        2. ANB
          -1
          18 February 2020 13: 44
          For starters, where are the invoices?
        3. 0
          18 February 2020 14: 01
          Quote: Silvestr
          Yushchenko before 08.08.08 transferred / sold the division of Georgia.

          why then the documents for the transfer by the Ukrainians and the acceptance by the Georgians of military property, in which the product numbers should be, are not made public? and in terms of the removal of the division from combat duty should have been issued accordingly ...
          1. +3
            18 February 2020 14: 15
            Quote: reservist
            in which should the product numbers not be made public?

            1. 0
              18 February 2020 14: 58
              and where is the serial number of the product 9M38M1?
              1. +3
                18 February 2020 15: 01
                Quote: reservist
                and where is the serial number of the product 9M38M1?

                But should he be here? This indicates
                Quote: reservist
                ... transfer by Ukrainians and acceptance by the Georgians of military property

                product numbers are very deeply hidden.
                1. 0
                  18 February 2020 15: 48
                  We return to the question of the documents, according to which the product 9M38M1 was transferred to the Georgians ...
                  1. +2
                    18 February 2020 16: 50
                    Quote: reservist
                    We return to the question of the documents, according to which the product 9M38M1 was transferred to the Georgians ...

                    it is in the General Staff of either Ukraine or Georgia
                    1. +1
                      18 February 2020 17: 08
                      the absence of documents on the transfer from both the Ukrainian and Georgian sides suggests that the missile with the "required number" remained in "that military unit" and was not transferred to any Georgia, otherwise they would have us long ago " mixed with g @% # ohm "...
                      1. +2
                        18 February 2020 17: 26
                        Quote: reservist
                        the lack of transfer documents from both the Ukrainian and Georgian sides suggests

                        I also thought about this, there are only 2 options: .1. that rocket remained in Ukraine.
                        2. she was in Georgia, but then again, again options.
                        She was shot at Tu-22, she came to us. I think the Americans have already pocketed the archives and maybe they will or will not emerge at the trial as a "cherry". Or maybe, banal, the documents have been lost. The silence on this issue is not entirely clear, however, as is the demonstration of the number by the Dutch. Painfully well after the explosion, the number was preserved, again there are scuffs over some of the numbers. All this is suggestive
                        1. +1
                          18 February 2020 19: 35
                          what's the point of keeping the missile documentation until trial? Well this is how much you could "pour out the crap" without postponing the matter on the back burner ... they made a video on pictures from the Internet, and here is documentary evidence ...
                          if "documents are lost", then an act of writing off the documentation is drawn up, where is it? they didn’t lose the school diary ... and so that Ukrainians and Georgians would lose documentation at the same time ...
                        2. +3
                          18 February 2020 20: 06
                          Quote: reservist
                          what's the point of keeping the rocket documentation pending trial?

                          Theoretically: the stuffing with the number was on the court, a completely different number pops up or even indicated. Our Moscow Region proved that this number was transferred to Ukraine. And suddenly Ukraine takes out a magazine. where indicated, a product with this number has been transferred along with Georgian installations. And the Georgians confirm this fact with papers. Where did the rocket leave Georgia? Either in the sky when the Tu-22 was shot down or not used. And if you didn’t use it, then where is she ...
                        3. 0
                          19 February 2020 10: 29
                          Quote: Silvestr
                          And suddenly Ukraine takes out a magazine. where indicated, a product with this number has been transferred along with Georgian installations.

                          and the examination shows that either the factory documents from Dolgoprudny, or "the suddenly appeared Ukrainian-Georgian magazine" is a forgery ...
                          since no magazine has "surfaced" yet, then most likely there will be no more ...
    33. +2
      18 February 2020 11: 14
      Everything is clear here. Both the Ukrainian Buki, which were at the bases, and the Russian Buki, which were at the bases, did not reach.
      This was reported immediately as a reference. Where is the sensation?
      The liner was shot down by Buk, brought to the area where the liner was shot down.
      The dispute was only where he was brought from and who.
    34. 0
      18 February 2020 12: 04
      Now they will be looking for the MIG-31 VKS of Russia, which shot down a Boeing. They cannot pull, pull, pull. They won’t find a mouse in any way.
      1. ANB
        +1
        18 February 2020 13: 49
        All the fuss of "investigation" and "court" is only around attempts to prove that Buk was brought from Russia to Ukraine. And then no one investigates anything.
    35. 0
      18 February 2020 14: 32
      In general, how did the confident version emerge that MH 17 was shot down from a Buk missile system? After all, the wreckage of the aircraft began to be examined later.
      MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on the maps - that was understandable. What's next?
      Was the incident with the avilayer pre-arranged or was it some kind of accident? Did the MH17 route change in flight or not? The footage from the Buk air defense missile system without a rocket is specifically for a certain show?
    36. -1
      18 February 2020 16: 30
      The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with such a route that was out of reach of Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, the locations of which on the maps were marked by the Ukrainian and Russian sides.
      So what ? So Kolomoisky confessed to them exactly where he then installed the Buk complex, which he bought (or obtained in another way) from the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
    37. 0
      18 February 2020 17: 08
      Then where did the rocket come from that shot down the Boeing ?! Didn't he explode himself?
    38. 0
      18 February 2020 19: 29
      And here, in general, Russia, L / DPR are parties to the conflict, Russia is not
      The second moment, Russia provided data on a missile transferred to Ukraine and I have the feeling that this is an attempt to smear the Nazis / Bandera and confuse the inhabitants in Europe from the fact that the Dutch trackers are in share!
      It happens my opinion and the wrong laughing
    39. 0
      18 February 2020 20: 51
      Exactly stuffing. There are three goals. The first is to distract from the Ukrainian Buks. The second is to confuse even more. The third is to draw attention to the rotten case.
    40. 0
      18 February 2020 23: 16
      Quote: Andrey.AN
      if the Russian Federation is accused, they will not give protection representing the Russian Federation

      The Russian Federation will not be charged as long as 3 citizens of the Russian Federation are accused, lawyers are appointed to them. From the point of view of the investigation, their fault is, albeit small, but they hope to go out to others who can be charged with, at best, Russian officials. In all this matter, it is still not clear what the role of Russia is, that it doesn’t sideways - that’s clear, but why is there data only from the civil Rostov radar? Where are the others? Or is our whole South a continuous hole? and courtyard?
    41. 0
      18 February 2020 23: 23
      Quote: Andrey.AN
      if the Russian Federation is accused, they will not give protection representing the Russian Federation

      The Russian Federation will not be charged as long as 3 citizens of the Russian Federation are accused, lawyers are appointed to them. From the point of view of the investigation, their fault is, albeit small, but they hope to go out to others who can be charged with, at best, Russian officials. In all this matter, it is still not clear what the role of Russia is, that it doesn’t sideways - that’s clear, but why is there data only from the civil Rostov radar? Where are the others? Or is our whole South a continuous hole? and courtyard?
      Quote: voyaka uh
      This was reported immediately as a reference. Where is the sensation?

      It is that the Dutch intelligence was not able to open the relocation of other air defense systems. That is, just sat in a puddle
    42. 0
      19 February 2020 23: 39
      RT writes that about the absence of Bukov was reported by Dutch intelligence back in 2016, but it was ignored. I don’t like that our people are silent, Sands grunted something ...

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