Netherlands intelligence document: MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on maps


A few weeks before the trial in the case of the Malaysian Boeing, shot down in the sky over the Donbass, provided unexpected information. A group of independent journalists BM (Bonanza Media) published a document that had previously been compiled by representatives of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) of the Netherlands.


The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with such a route that was out of reach of Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, the locations of which on the maps were marked by the Ukrainian and Russian sides.

BM journalists note that the intelligence of the Netherlands (as evidenced by the document) initially had data on the exact location of the air defense system during the conflict in the Donbass.

From the material:

MH17 flew out of reach from all the places established and used by Ukraine and Russia where the Buk-M1 systems were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

According to Dutch journalist Max van der Verff, this information was previously inaccessible to the journalistic community.

The press publishes several more documents, including the one where the issue of the Ukrainian combat aircraft raised from the airfield at the time of the Malaysian Boeing’s flight in Ukraine’s airspace was raised again.

The record of a conversation between Dutch investigators and an unnamed witness who stated about the Ukrainian Air Force planes appeared in that area in a minute for the tragedy with the Boeing.

Bonanza Media Group claims that all the documents they have are authentic.

Representatives of the Dutch investigation at the moment did not comment on these publications.
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  1. Pavel73 18 February 2020 06: 46 New
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    It is possible that this is a stuffing. Need a check. Yes, and "marked on the cards" - also raises questions. And if there were unmarked?
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 03 New
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      Quote: Pavel73
      It is possible that this is a stuffing.
      Absolutely accurate stuffing. Earlier throws of this type appeared at press conferences on the progress of the investigation, now - before the imminent start of the trial. Their task is very simple - to throw more garbage, so that there is a feeling that "nothing is known for sure, the matter is dark." The media is now blaming it for some time, as with the "ultimatum of Joseph Resch," and then just as suddenly forgotten.
      1. Pavel73 18 February 2020 07: 07 New
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        I agree. But the fact that the Ukrainian prosecutors were suspended from the investigation of MH17 under the pretext of "anti-corruption reform" is much more interesting.
        1. New Year day 18 February 2020 08: 54 New
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          Quote: Pavel73
          Ukrainian prosecutors were suspended from investigating MH17 under the pretext of “anti-corruption reform,” which is much more interesting.

          in Ukraine, 710 prosecutors were removed during the purge, "Dutch" replaced by others
          1. Vladimir B. 18 February 2020 17: 03 New
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            cleaned up unfavorable? were afraid to hear the truth?
            Quote: Silvestr
            710 prosecutors were stranded, "Dutch" replaced by others
      2. aleks_29296 18 February 2020 07: 45 New
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        It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 48 New
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          Quote: aleks_29296
          It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. Does not fit with official charges
          So it is not officially accused throwing. And guess who twice.
          1. Victor_B 18 February 2020 07: 55 New
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            Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
            And guess who twice.

            I can’t guess.
            Enlighten, do not let die dark!
            Actually, the perpetrators have long been APPOINTED.
            It is obvious that this "bloody Putin" personally ordered and wrote the inscription!
            Actually, it’s because they’ve been investigating for 6 years that they know who is to blame, but it needs to be proved that Russia is to blame, but there is no sane proof.
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 58 New
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              Quote: Victor_B
              Enlighten, do not let die dark!
              No, that’s not interesting. Live and suffer in ignorance. wink
              1. Victor_B 18 February 2020 08: 00 New
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                Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                Live and suffer in ignorance.

                I will survive.
        2. Bashkirkhan 18 February 2020 07: 52 New
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          Quote: aleks_29296
          what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down from the slingshot or what?

          From the BUK and shot down judging by the damaging elements of the rocket. The report, published by the leadership of the Almaz-Antey concern, indicates that the Malaysian airliner was shot down by the Buk-M1 complex. Based on the nature of the holes in the fragments of the fuselage of the aircraft, based on the damage analysis, it was concluded that in this case a 9M38M or 9M38M1 missile with a 9M314 or 9M314M1 type warhead was used. According to experts, only in them the striking elements are in the form of an "double tee". A copy from the restored form of the original of the Ministry of Defense of Russia was found after the wreckage of the missile from the BUK was presented for review.
          In my opinion, Ukrainians could ground the Boeing, since at that time they were engaged in exercises using BUKs. Moreover, at that time there was information about the presence of the SU-25 militia, given the amazing opportunity for military equipment to fall into the hands of the militia, BUKs were in operation.
          1. Victor_B 18 February 2020 07: 58 New
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            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            A copy from the restored form of the original of the Ministry of Defense of Russia was found after the wreckage of the missile from the BUK was presented for review.

            It seems that this fragment of a rocket has already been hidden under the pretext that it is not a fact that it was from the scene of the disaster.
            Type of error came out.
            1. Bashkirkhan 18 February 2020 08: 05 New
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              From the very beginning, the Ministry of Defense had to blame everything on the Ukrainians, to say that they conducted exercises and ended up in a Boeing. Moreover, they had reason for the teachings.
              The forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic launched an air strike against Ukrainian troops using a captured Su-25 attack aircraft, militias report. "Well! With the initiative of the Lugansk Air Force! The first blow of Lugansk drying in the Aleksandrovka area! The flight is normal. Information on the results of the raid is being specified, according to preliminary data, our pilot worked filigree "

              https://vz.ru/news/2014/7/13/695344.html
              1. Victor_B 18 February 2020 08: 10 New
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                Quote: Bashkirkhan
                to say that they conducted the exercises and ended up in a Boeing.

                What are the teachings?
                The divisions were deployed in battle formations and were waiting for the attack of Russian aviation.
                And, if my memory serves me right, one Su-25 flew over to the Donetsk team and, like once, even flew into the APU bombing.
                So that no teachings! In combat they were deployed. And they were completely ready to shoot, their radar stations were regularly broadcast.
              2. New Year day 18 February 2020 09: 49 New
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                Quote: Bashkirkhan
                Moreover, they had reason for the teachings.
                The forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic launched an air strike against Ukrainian troops using a captured Su-25 attack aircraft, militias report. "Well! With the initiative of the Lugansk Air Force! The first blow of Lugansk drying in the Aleksandrovka area! The flight is normal. Information on the results of the raid is being specified, according to preliminary data, our pilot worked filigree "

                https://vz.ru/news/2014/7/13/695344.html

                then wrote a lot of things
                1. aver2000 18 February 2020 11: 02 New
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                  This version of the capture of the Ukrainian BUK, in my opinion, is not consistent. There were bare reports about this, including in the central Russian media, but, mind you, there is not a single photo of this captured BUK, just as there is nothing about his future fate. In addition and APU reported. that there was no capture. There is a version that these messages were only a cover for the transfer of our BUK under Snezhnoye. In case of capture.
                  1. Pavel73 18 February 2020 11: 50 New
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                    No. Then, when it is captured, the Ukrainian authorities will immediately show the serial numbers of the machine and its units. Or the fact that they were shot down / killed.
                2. kig
                  kig 19 February 2020 03: 50 New
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                  Quote: Silvestr
                  then wrote a lot of things

                  This is exactly


                  Subsequently, obviously, many regretted their talkativeness.
          2. Narcolog 18 February 2020 09: 24 New
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            I read in those days in Ukrainian Wikipedia publication interesting information ... It turns out that Ukraine GENERALLY Beeches were not in service))) Well, this is according to THEIR version. In general, a lot of strange. On the day of the crash of the Boeing, the Ukrainian side banned all flights in that area - this is the first. Second - on the eve of intense flights of the Ukrainian Air Force. In short - questions, questions ...
            1. Crystal of Truth 18 February 2020 09: 33 New
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              Not just beeches, but beech of this version
              1. Narcolog 18 February 2020 10: 51 New
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                Then about the "version" in general there was no conversation and close. That was in 2014, right after the Boeing was shot down. In the countries that operated Buka, Ukraine was not listed in the Ukrainian version of the wiki.
            2. svp67 18 February 2020 11: 26 New
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              Quote: Narcolog
              In those days, I read interesting information in the Ukrainian edition of Wikipedia ... It turns out that Ukraine did NOT consist of beeches in service))) Well, this is THEIR version.

              And a day before the tragedy, in their military program, they show these beeches at the airport in Kramatorsk. Moreover, “Buki” were on trailers. So, by the way, from the airfield to the scene of the tragedy, in a straight line 72 km. Considering what they write about the range of application of the Bug air defense system of 25 kilometers, it’s not very difficult to take the installation to where it’s enough to bring back fifty kilometers from where it is enough.
              1. Narcolog 18 February 2020 12: 31 New
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                This is another matter. Even before the tragedy of the Armed Forces, they boasted that they put three Bukov divisions on the database in the Donbass. And then suddenly - "not in service". I myself would not have paid attention to this, if not for one horse, stubbornly proving to me that "well, there are no Bukovs in Ukraine!" And then he also gave a link to the Ukrainian edition of the wiki. I looked - and for sure. I could not believe my eyes. It was literally the day after the crash of a Boeing.
          3. Captain Pushkin 18 February 2020 11: 59 New
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            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            In my opinion, Ukrainians could ground the Boeing, since at that time they were engaged in exercises using BUKs.

            This version is reinforced by the target plane "shot down" by the militias (jet Tushka, I don’t remember the index) on the very day of the Boeing’s destruction. In the photo, this target looked safely landed on the collective farm field without visible damage. Most likely, there was a technical malfunction or, even more likely, not a complete refueling.
            If the participants in the exercises received information about the launch of the target, and the target plopped down before reaching the affected area, they began to search for it and the Boeing, which had turned up inappropriately, was taken for the target.
            And the Su-25 with air-to-air missiles also fits into this version. He could be kept in the air in case the target was missed and deflected and went "wrong" to eliminate it.
          4. mikstepanenko 18 February 2020 22: 58 New
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            From the BUK and shot down judging by the damaging elements of the rocket.
            There are some nuances. Immediately a bunch of photos of the wreckage were published, I then downloaded two hundred of them (disappeared, the hard drive crashed). Casing of the cockpit, left side. There are a lot of holes from large fragments (there immediately after the accident, they were intensively processed with art for many days) and round holes for the caliber of an aircraft gun. BUT from the damaging elements of anti-aircraft missiles no. Right wing, traces from the rods of an aircraft rocket. They took away, two years later presented the same skin to the left side of the cab, already with holes from the anti-aircraft missile.
        3. SVD68 18 February 2020 08: 19 New
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          Quote: aleks_29296
          It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

          Just very fit. They say the military of Ukraine could not bring down, which means it was hit by a Buk secretly imported from Russia, which the Russians, of course, did not mark on the map.
        4. Olgovich 18 February 2020 09: 24 New
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          Quote: aleks_29296
          It does not fit with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

          In my opinion, it even fits - they write
          MH17 flew out of range of all installed and used Ukraine and Russia places where Buk-M1 complexes were located

          those. Ukraine and Russia couldn’t, but it only remains, supposedly, the DPR.

          This is before the so-called "court they show off.

          I think. Russia has nothing to do there: the court is illegitimate, biased and biased. on him negative
        5. Pavel73 18 February 2020 11: 47 New
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          The stuffing, perhaps true. A deliberate information leak strictly dosed by the Dutch secret services. The goal is to prepare public opinion in the West for the court and its results. To soften the effect of an exploding bomb.
  2. Eddie 18 February 2020 06: 47 New
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    What a twist! Although, little will change. Anyway, Russia is guilty, well, at least something :)
    1. Nikolay87 18 February 2020 07: 08 New
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      Russia is guilty of being innocent wassat
  3. Mountain shooter 18 February 2020 06: 48 New
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    So understand these Dutch ... What are they investigating and how? Throw one (ONE !!!) launcher specifically to bring down this unfortunate Boeing that had never flown in the area before ... But there was no a priori logic in the reasoning of the investigation ... The task had to be solved. On charges - only now whom? Russia? LDNR?
    1. Same lech 18 February 2020 06: 51 New
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      And how are the Dutch going to judge Russia with such raw material?
      Lies will not bring them to good.
      1. novel66 18 February 2020 07: 08 New
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        the legalization of drugs will definitely not bring to good, the whole country is stoned
        1. Dur_mod 18 February 2020 07: 26 New
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          We would have to live under such a high, rather tough people and policemen on the road are much tougher than in Germany.
      2. Victor_B 18 February 2020 07: 59 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        And how with such raw material the Dutch are going to judge

        Who are the judges? (from)
    2. The leader of the Redskins 18 February 2020 07: 47 New
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      Personally, my opinion is that this is really very similar to a stuffing. But, on the other hand, this stuffing can play into our hands - now the ball is being thrown to the territory of the leadership of the LPR. Like, answer yourself what you could pull into the sky there. On purpose or by accident ...
      1. New Year day 18 February 2020 09: 00 New
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        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        indeed, very similar to the stuffing.

        without a doubt. Who on hand is not clear. According to the laws of the Netherlands, nothing can be given to the press before the trial, because what has been said ceases to be proof
    3. KCA
      KCA 18 February 2020 08: 27 New
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      You had to know exactly when and on which route MH17 would fly, with a single Buk M1 self-propelled gun, the detection and targeting range was much shorter than that of the Buk missile system, all the more so as civilian aircraft fly at an altitude of more than 10 km
  4. Uncle lee 18 February 2020 06: 49 New
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    MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense system
    Someone can tell exactly what, or by whom, this poor Boeing was shot down?
    1. novel66 18 February 2020 07: 08 New
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      Volodya, was there a Boeing ?? hi
      1. Uncle lee 18 February 2020 07: 15 New
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        Roma hi Debris, bodies, were ... Didn’t they bring them?
        1. novel66 18 February 2020 07: 15 New
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          but already not sure .. request
    2. Finn 18 February 2020 07: 30 New
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      Our designer of beech missiles said exactly with the accuracy of recognizing a lot of small cross-shaped holes with an entrance from the outside of the casing from the striking elements and immediately said that now Russia is not cruciform, all have been replaced with a different type. The old type remained only in Ukraine. I consider this to be true. The creator recognized his creation.
      1. Captain Pushkin 18 February 2020 12: 06 New
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        Quote: Finn
        now not cruciform in Russia, all replaced by another type

        Of course it's true. But is it true?
        After all, the striking elements in the form of an I-beam can be used in some missiles of foreign manufacturers. And not only in air-to-air missiles, but also in air-to-air missiles.
        1. Finn 18 February 2020 18: 56 New
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          A parallelepiped in an air-to-air rocket.
          1. mikstepanenko 18 February 2020 23: 01 New
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            The rods, a few dozen.
    3. The leader of the Redskins 18 February 2020 07: 48 New
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      "Diamond - Antei" said - "beech." Now the question is about Shakespeare - where did he come from?
      1. Victor_B 18 February 2020 08: 02 New
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        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        "Diamond - Antei" said - "beech."

        Moreover, he said - BOOK OLD which Russia does not have! At all!
        1. New Year day 18 February 2020 09: 11 New
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          Quote: Victor_B
          Moreover, he said - BOOK OLD which Russia does not have! At all!

      2. New Year day 18 February 2020 09: 25 New
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        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        "Diamond - Antei" said - "beech."

        Tass and Vesti lied?

        1. mikstepanenko 18 February 2020 23: 04 New
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          They didn’t lie, only those Buki were no longer subject to resuscitation.
      3. Kelwin 18 February 2020 13: 19 New
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        Not quite so, AA wrote "IF it was a Buk, then only a 9M38 rocket ..."
        This "if" is fundamentally important. AA simulated the conditions and consequences of the destruction of missiles and came to the conclusion that, if there was a missile, it could only be 9M38.
        1. New Year day 18 February 2020 14: 14 New
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          Quote: KelWin
          if the rocket was, then it could only be 9M38.

          you are wrong: in the first conclusion, AA stated ..


          then disowned his words
          1. Kelwin 18 February 2020 15: 08 New
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            Here it was about the final report, I did not specify, it’s my fault. It is there that this “if” clause is present, and since the report was made on the basis of including a full-scale experiment, IMHO, there were reasons for this clause. For example, that this is not SAM at all ...
  5. Finches 18 February 2020 06: 51 New
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    To be frank - in a war, as in a war - but the Ukrainian authorities are uniquely to blame and the children who ruled them from one nice place from Virginia! First, militias are accustomed to the idea of ​​air raids, constantly sending letaki to the area of ​​contact and keeping air defense systems in good shape, and then bam, they specially bring the civilian side into the combat zone .... Naturally, it is shot down - who? This is not the most important thing! This is the ordinary person who was fulfilling his duties at the military post! The main culprit is who organized all this - and they organized it in Washington! And everyone knows this very well - therefore, everything else is a spectacle! Like the investigation, like the court ... If only Turchinov or Putin could come up with this, the investigation would end in two days, but it was invented in the White House - therefore, “music will be eternal if you charge the batteries!” laughing
    1. Prisoner 18 February 2020 06: 56 New
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      Cunningly! First, they say the Washington had planned something, and then the militias shot down. And how long did you think before putting such heresy?
      1. Finches 18 February 2020 06: 57 New
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        Have you tried to read carefully? Or was it enough to comprehend only the first sentence of the mind? I'm sorry hi
        1. Prisoner 18 February 2020 07: 03 New
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          Why, there, I forgive. hi
      2. Levius RU 18 February 2020 08: 01 New
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        Have you stored vouchers for a long time? Or did you immediately buy Gazprom?
    2. Mountain shooter 18 February 2020 07: 11 New
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      Quote: Finches
      kids driving them from one nice little place from Virginia! First, they teach the militias to think about air raids, constantly sending letaki to the contact area and keeping air defense systems in good shape, and then bam, they specially bring the civilian side into the combat zone .... Naturally, it is shot down - who? This is not the most important thing! This is an ordinary soldier at a military post! The main culprit, who

      And consider the reverse situation?
      Dill letaki began to shoot down more and more often. The panicky rumors about the Russian twists that knocked them down led Banderstan leaders to think that it was necessary to move the air defense to this area ... And they moved it. Further, everything is clear ... Krivorukovy air defense personnel planted a missile at the largest mark on the radar. If at that time there was also a Ukrainian plane in the air - then their reaction is even more understandable - the Russian instant is attacking defenseless drying ...
      1. orionvitt 18 February 2020 07: 28 New
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        All wrong. Blood from the nose, needed a provocation against Russia. And if there wasn’t a Boeing, then he would have been invented.
      2. Incvizitor 18 February 2020 11: 17 New
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        There were in those moments a lot of ukrobred roro "constant attacks of aircraft of the Russian Federation"
    3. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 32 New
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      Quote: Finches
      To be honest
      I wonder why frank need to be only sometimes, at some special moments? To trick anyone the rest of the time?

      The effect? The Dutch? So they are well aware of the price of all this cunning and are not being fooled by it for even a second. World public opinion? So it also doesn’t make any noticeable impression on him because of the general clumsiness. Who then are the most naive citizens of Russia? What for?
      1. Finches 18 February 2020 07: 41 New
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        Naive citizens of Ukraine ... And about openness there may be other reasons, for example, a non-disclosure subscription ... laughing
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 56 New
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          Quote: Finches
          Naive citizens of Ukraine ...
          Something I doubt that this works, and naive citizens of Ukraine prefer to believe Russian statements that they shot down a Boeing, and not the Dutch investigation. As for the subscriptions, there are so many people pretending to be hoses (with occasionally eruptive moments of frankness) that doubts arise as if they are all sitting under subscriptions, well, moments of frankness and subscription are poorly combined.
          1. Finches 18 February 2020 08: 02 New
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            To doubt it is your right! hi
          2. Alexander Suvorov 18 February 2020 08: 08 New
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            Vyacheslav Viktorovich (Vyacheslav)
            Something I doubt that this works, and naive citizens of Ukraine prefer to believe Russian statements that they shot down a Boeing, and not the Dutch investigation.
            And we all, in your opinion, should, and what should there, be simply obliged to believe the impolite Dutch investigation?
            Want to say that all the same, Russia shot down a Boeing? Then the question is, why the hell for Russia to bring down this ill-fated Boeing? Is it such a kind of HPP that we are specifically sanctioned?
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 08: 59 New
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              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              Then the question is, why the hell for Russia to bring down this ill-fated Boeing?
              By mistake. The milling machine operator doesn’t have to cut off his fingers with a machine tool, but they cut it off.
    4. kig
      kig 19 February 2020 06: 01 New
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      Quote: Finches
      and then bam, specially bring civilian board into the combat zone.

      Many for some reason continue to broadcast that the unfortunate Boeing was specifically sent there. Meanwhile, it was quite an official international route, and the flight plan was drawn up by the Malay lines, based on the available information. At that time, the only restriction imposed by Ukraine was to keep the height in this zone more than 32000 feet. On July 17, only ML carried out seven flights along this route, and on average 260 flights per day passed through this zone. So, in general, no one understood the seriousness of the situation. Including the Netherlands. Between July 14, when An-6500 was shot down at an altitude of 26 m and it became clear that new weapons appeared in the zone - and on July 17, 60 airlines from 32 countries continued to use the zone. Including Russian. Ukraine did not introduce a ban on civilian flights, this is true, but no one specifically substituted Boeing for missiles. A slight change in altitude and course shortly before the disaster, which many people like to refer to, was made at the request of the crew to get around the weather.
      1. Finches 19 February 2020 06: 18 New
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        That's just the point - the main thing is not to cover the sky and some Boeing will surely come across, especially if you irritate the forces and means of air defense! This is a pure invention of overseas children! And far from the first freshness!
        1. kig
          kig 19 February 2020 08: 44 New
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          That is, you believe that those who were nervous about air raids, that is, militias, were shot down?
  6. Dmitry Potapov 18 February 2020 06: 53 New
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    And how to understand this ?! It turns out that Ukraine’s air defense is full of holes? Even for a civilian plane? Something is not right here!
    1. Alexander Suvorov 18 February 2020 08: 11 New
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      There is not only a hole full of air defense, there the whole country is full of holes and is very proud of it. You can forget about their air defense for a long time, even from the time when they Tu-154 failed in 2001.
  7. Arpad 18 February 2020 06: 57 New
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    Ordinary nothing worthwhile stuffing.
    What is hit by a beech is clear to everyone, including the Russian Defense Ministry.
  8. Tzar 18 February 2020 07: 02 New
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    If not Buk knocked down, then who then? After all, the pilot Voloshin didn’t shoot down either, he simply lost his ammunition in flight, then quit and became the director of the airport, became sad over the sky and killed himself from longing.
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 17 New
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      How could the pilot Voloshin fly unnoticed by the radars of the Rostov air hub? Russia released its primary raw data, according to them, there were no other aircraft near Boeing.
  9. pru-pavel 18 February 2020 07: 02 New
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    MH17 flew out of range from all installed and used Ukraine and Russia places where Buk-M1 complexes were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

    The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with a route that was out of reach of the Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, placements of which are marked on the maps Ukrainian and Russian by the parties.

    Those who will accept the point of view of the authenticity of this document, do not forget that it also recognizes that Russia used Buki in the Donbass, and even notified other states about it.
    1. Volodin 18 February 2020 07: 10 New
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      Quote: pru-pavel
      Those who will accept the point of view of the authenticity of this document, do not forget that it also recognizes that Russia used Buki in the Donbas

      Nothing of the kind that you wrote is recognized there. This is not about the "use" of "Bukov", but about the marks on the maps and recriminations. Marks from Russia, as you know, say that the Ukrainian Buki were located in the Zaroschensky district.
      1. pru-pavel 18 February 2020 07: 30 New
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        Where is it written that this is exactly what it is about? Or is it you only see what you want to see?
        1. Volodin 18 February 2020 07: 41 New
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          Quote: pru-pavel
          Where is it written that this is exactly what it is about?

          The Dutch SVR document published by BN.
          Quote: pru-pavel
          Or is it you only see what you want to see?

          And address this question to begin with yourself.
          1. pru-pavel 18 February 2020 07: 45 New
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            Quote: Volodin
            The Dutch SVR document published by BN.

            Proofs and quotes, as I understand it will not.
            1. Volodin 18 February 2020 08: 11 New
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              Quote: pru-pavel
              Proofs and quotes, as I understand it will not.

              https://mailchi.mp/69054d39ee63/bonanzamedia-newsletter-2?e=bdec9af591
              https://maxfromthewharf.com/5510-2/
              Specify all additional questions interesting you in SVR of the Netherlands
              1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 08: 30 New
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                https://mailchi.mp/69054d39ee63/bonanzamedia-newsletter-2?e=bdec9af591
                https://maxfromthewharf.com/5510-2/
                Drop dead. They are called "Dutch journalist Max Van Der Werff", and in the code of the page are pieces of our native Yandex. Well, how can you work so clumsy? And then non-traditional fitness instructors have to pretend to be on TV.
                1. Volodin 18 February 2020 08: 38 New
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                  Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                  Drop dead. They are called "Dutch journalist Max Van Der Werff", and in the code of the page are pieces of our native Yandex.

                  There is no need to include a "whistle blower". 15% of European sites (outside Russia) have Yandex codes. Yandex: The place of registration is the Netherlands.
                  1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 08: 58 New
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                    Quote: Volodin
                    15% of European sites (outside Russia) have Yandex codes. "
                    Is this statement based on anything or taken straight from the ceiling?
                    1. Volodin 18 February 2020 09: 24 New
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                      Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                      Is this statement based on anything or taken straight from the ceiling?

                      On the January report of the company. Next time, do not be lazy and check out the official statistics by accrediting to the final event for the press and the public.
                      1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 09: 29 New
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                        Is it published on the Internet?
                      2. Volodin 18 February 2020 10: 07 New
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                        Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                        Is it published on the Internet?

                        As they say, with a high degree of probability. Look for
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. reservist 18 February 2020 13: 43 New
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                      look for a scan of Yandex.Books (this is about the story of Yandex, there seems to be a chapter on why they registered in the Netherlands) ... probably lies somewhere ... or just buy on ozone ...
            2. viktorR 18 February 2020 12: 10 New
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              Here is a revelation :) ...
              They learned to use the console, but what is a subdomain you don’t already know the second level :)? In my opinion you are deliberately lying.
              If you are the owner of the list-manage.com domain, then you can create subdomains on it at least yandex.list-manage.com at least huyandex.list-manage.com

              And you can see who the owner of the list-manage.com domain is in who.is and he is far from Moscow time and not at the KGB registered.

              NameSharon Rosenbaum
              OrganizationTHE ROCKET SCIENCE GROUP LLC
              Address675 Ponce De Leon Ave
              CityAtlanta
              State / ProvinceGeorgia
              Postal Code30308
              Countryus
              Phone + 1.6789990141
              Fax + 1.6789990142

              https://who.is/whois/list-manage.com
              1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 12: 42 New
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                And the combination of letters "yandex" in the subdomain, of course, arose purely by chance, and has nothing to do with solutions from Yandex, well, or the Dutch journalist wanted to create the impression that he uses web-mastering tools from a service popular in Russia .

                However, this conversation no longer makes sense, I found the film "MH17 - Call for Justice", which was made by the same Dutch journalist. And it was made jointly with Yana Yerlashova, ex-screenwriter and producer of RT. Everything that is called lies directly in sight.
                1. A.TOR 18 February 2020 15: 52 New
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                  This is a visualization of the attitude of your esteemed opponents to the issue.
                2. viktorR 18 February 2020 16: 02 New
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                  Does Topwar work for the CIA?
  • rocket757 18 February 2020 07: 04 New
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    I wanted to ask a question - What was that? ... it seems necessary to ask - What is this ??? ... or not?
    will that trial be or will the case be postponed somewhere there, to a distant box?
    It’s not clear.
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 07: 19 New
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      March 9 the beginning of the trial. What is not clear?
      1. rocket757 18 February 2020 07: 45 New
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        In principle, media information may not affect anything ... we'll see.
      2. FORCE 38GB 18 February 2020 12: 51 New
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        They want to convict Russia .. Therefore, on March 9, not the beginning of the trial, but the beginning of the Circus performance with the appointment of the culprit at the request of the United States! So it will be more accurate ..
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 12: 55 New
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          Quote: FORCE 38RUS
          want to plead guilty
          Quote: FORCE 38RUS
          the appointment of the perpetrator
          These are emotional sobs that do not carry meaningful content. The question is who shot down and whether the court decision adequately reflects objective reality. Whoever wants or does not want there, wants it badly or not much - this objective reality does not change.
    2. miner 18 February 2020 07: 23 New
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      It seems to me that they will now declare that Russia was shot down from its territory with the help of the S-300 or S-200.
      1. rocket757 18 February 2020 07: 47 New
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        We will wait for the “devil from the snuff box” on the one hand, or the “joker in the sleeve” on the other hand !!!
        In general, we will see.
  • Tank jacket 18 February 2020 07: 12 New
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    The Boeing Mn17 was to fall according to the CIA’s intentions precisely on the territory of Ukraine, so that it would be impossible to investigate honestly and openly. (We recall the shelling of Ukraine at the crash site) After hitting the Ukrainian Buk, MH17 continued flight planning. There was a threat that his wreckage or he would fly to the Russian Federation. Then I had to raise the plane of the Ukrainian air force to finish off and to fall on the territory of Ukraine.
    1. kepmor 18 February 2020 07: 41 New
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      yeah ... you can’t hold fantasies ...
      1. Tank jacket 18 February 2020 07: 44 New
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        And Voloshin did not interrogate ... died ...
    2. Pavel73 18 February 2020 08: 01 New
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      Yes, there was no CIA plan! Rather, he was and is, but that is not at all this. Americans are not stupid enough to plan such provocations themselves. Why, if they have dolls that are happy to do this and do it. And they will sincerely think that by doing so they defend their homeland. The Americans don’t give a damn what exactly will happen: will they bomb the trolleybus, will they sink the pleasure boat or will they knock down the passenger airliner. Americans don’t give a damn whether this will happen erroneously or intentionally. Americans don’t give a damn who exactly will do this: frostbitten Bandera, the Ukrainian army, Donetsk militias or the Russian army. It is only important for Americans that a slow-moving war continues in the center of Europe, and that no one wins this war for as long as possible. Thus, the region covered by this war turns into an insurmountable barrier between Russia and Europe. And it hinders their economic integration. Therefore, Americans with the help of hints, winks, rewards and small cash infusions carefully quietly push their wards to commit such stupid actions. Prevent rapprochement between Russia and Europe! They just eliminate the competitor. Nothing personal just business.
      1. Tank jacket 18 February 2020 08: 28 New
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        DO NOT la la la .. In the country, 404 the CIA gave an entire floor.
  • rotmistr60 18 February 2020 07: 14 New
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    Bonanza Media Group claims that all the documents they have are authentic.
    And for an exclusively politicized "investigation" with the aim of accusing Russia, no authenticity of documents plays a role. Although after the appearance of such information, questions will only increase. But will they affect the decision of the "court"?
  • Pavel73 18 February 2020 07: 25 New
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    And yet this is a stuffing. Now our jingoistic patriots will cry out “yeah, these are Ukrainians and pilot Voloshin!” And the Dutch will officially refute and say that this is a stuffing. And the patriots will begin psychological breakdown. The Dutch themselves threw it. Intentionally.
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 08: 12 New
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      Quote: Pavel73
      And the Dutch will officially refute and say that this is a stuffing. And the patriots will begin psychological breakdown.
      Patriots have long moved to a world that does not depend on what the Dutch say at all - they always tell lies in it. So this is a weak theory.
  • kig
    kig 18 February 2020 07: 27 New
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    The task for the student. Given:
    - the plane was shot down by Buk
    - Beeches located in well-known places do not reach the plane.
    Question: from what place did Buk start, which shot down the plane?
    (hint: Beech - self-propelled complex)
    1. Pavel73 18 February 2020 07: 30 New
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      From the unknown and unmarked on the maps. I got it myself.
    2. Andrei Nikolaevich 18 February 2020 07: 36 New
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      The answer is ready! The plane was shot down by Russian ,, agressors ,,. The place and circumstances, meanings, do not matter.
      1. FORCE 38GB 18 February 2020 12: 54 New
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        laughing laughing laughing I respect subtle humor! :) plus you .. have fun .. good
    3. voyaka uh 18 February 2020 12: 36 New
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      "The task for the student. Given .." ///
      ----
      Absolutely right laughing
      And even on wagons carry them, if far.
  • Pavel73 18 February 2020 07: 28 New
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    The question is very simple: where did the journalists get these papers? After all, they are secret. Really NATO military just throwing them like that?
    1. Volodin 18 February 2020 07: 44 New
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      Quote: Pavel73
      The question is very simple: where did the journalists get these papers? After all, they are secret.

      Well, Bellingcat's secret papers somehow somehow are constantly at the disposal ...
      If more than one person knows about the existence of a secret paper, sooner or later it ceases to be secret.
      1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 09: 05 New
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        Quote: Volodin
        Well, Bellingcat's secret papers somehow somehow are constantly at the disposal ...
        For instance? And then for memory there they always somehow have data from open sources.
        1. g1washntwn 18 February 2020 09: 24 New
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          For example, Wikilix (have you been to such a site at least once?) Was engaged in the purchase of such leaks and the subsequent publication of which Assange was closed. Politicians at the core use such leaks for the undercover struggle and what popped up there neither you nor anyone else will most likely never see. In the past, such leaks have led, for example, to Watergate and the like.
          1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 18 February 2020 09: 26 New
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            I don’t know what question you answered, but obviously not mine.
      2. New Year day 18 February 2020 09: 16 New
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        Quote: Volodin
        Bellingcat, on the other hand, secret papers are somehow always at the disposal of ...

        they are the same journalist as the astronaut. This is just a cover for a completely legal office. There are no former scouts
  • Andrei Nikolaevich 18 February 2020 07: 34 New
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    And with such materials, they gathered in court? ... Geyropa degrades ...
  • tTshka 18 February 2020 07: 41 New
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    Do not go to a fortuneteller, CE GDP, PERSONALLY, at the helm of drying, on the tail led ... fool
  • Lamata 18 February 2020 07: 44 New
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    Jaye if not stuffing, the court may not take into account this Old.
  • ANB
    ANB 18 February 2020 08: 13 New
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    The court in the Netherlands is somehow strange.
    The defendants were declared people who, according to "evidence" from social networks, can only be accused of bringing Buk to Ukraine. By the way, no formal charges have been brought. And to whom should they be presented if only names and surnames are voiced. That is, the identity is not established.
    Question: what article of the Criminal Code Netherlands violated the "accused"?
    Or will it be civil proceedings?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Ros 56 18 February 2020 08: 20 New
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    Well, the province went to write, in such a way you can suck this topic for another five years, but you can’t see the end and edge.
  • askort154 18 February 2020 08: 21 New
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    According to Dutch journalist Max van der Verff, this information was previously inaccessible to the journalistic community.

    It seems that Trump decided to drill an “Obama umbrella” over Ukraine.
    In the Western media, suddenly appeared footage with comments on the true events on the "Maidan", which Russia has been showing for 5 years.
    Now this "surprise" of the GRU of the Netherlands with MN-17. Tram embarked on the path of revenge on the "democrats", for all his humiliation on their part. Surely, closer to the election, he will open many more "surprises" in the activities of the Obama team ..
    1. Tank jacket 18 February 2020 08: 47 New
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      Vo-in, right now, and Petro will be dragging the courts for the fake evidence of the “Trump-RF connection” that he sent Clinton ... Trump remembers everything.
  • Kerensky 18 February 2020 08: 31 New
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    Well, let it be the Beech, which is not marked on the cards. A sort of complex - a ghost, assembled in a garage from parts removed from the factory. (Sarcasm). But it should be deployed in advance at the point where the plane will be LATER. It cannot be otherwise.
    Maybe some new Khun Sa flew this flight, for which it’s not a pity to drop the plane.
  • Romanenko 18 February 2020 08: 49 New
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    It seems that the intelligence officers of the Netherlands are hired by the announcement.
    All of their statements are very interesting, at first they saw Russian Buki everywhere, showed fake movies and photos, didn’t fail, dragged a piece of a rocket - look, Russian !!! Then they got into a puddle, it turned out to be Ukrainian. They measured and poked fingers at the holes from the striking elements of the rocket - here it is the Russian trace, again a misfire, these rockets were removed from armament and dismantled.
    Now a new intro from Washington - there were no Beeches anywhere ...
    Then, please forgive me, what did the Russian citizens accused of you bring down the Boeing?
    Were shot from slingshots?
    Well, since you blame them.
    MANPADS Needle and Arrow will not reach there.
    Lied for good!
  • Operator 18 February 2020 08: 53 New
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    The Dutch have long and tightly sat on the "grass", which is legalized in their country. Therefore, all statements by their prosecutors, courts and special services should be taken into account only with certificates of testing for the foolishness of their authors laughing
  • K-50 18 February 2020 09: 00 New
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    MH17 flew out of reach from all the places established and used by Ukraine and Russia where the Buk-M1 systems were located. Not a single Buk air defense system was near the crash site of the Boeing.

    Would have published this data before five and a half years of hysteria in Russia would not have been.
  • screw cutter 18 February 2020 09: 04 New
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    One sentence, but how does the meaning change: “There were no Buk air defense systems near the crash site of the Boeing.” What distance does the Boeing fly after the defeat is unknown?
  • Maks1995 18 February 2020 09: 13 New
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    21st century ... as if ...
    but no photo of documents, no literal text ....

    There will be again in the media those 2 pilots, 2 airplanes, 2 dispatchers, and Poroshenko’s record, where he personally persuades the pilots to shoot better !!!!

    And in Tass et al. There is still news about the downed Ana on the site
  • ibn.shamai 18 February 2020 09: 50 New
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    Quote: aleks_29296
    It is possible that the stuffing. Yes, only some strange. It does not fit in with official accusations: what then did the plane accused of by the Dutch investigation bring down the plane, or something from a slingshot?

    TASS reports! Witnesses said that two planes were spotted in that area, after which there was an explosion and crash of a Boeing. The inversion trace left by the BUK missile was not visible.
  • Andrey.AN 18 February 2020 10: 17 New
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    The intelligence satellite between the moments of control leaves a window for an hour and a half, at least, in general, space intelligence does not know who could go where during this period, someone may know, but is silent (if they were absent, then not those). A legitimate court will not care if the Russian Federation is accused, if they do not allow the defense representing the Russian Federation to ask questions and give their arguments, all the more publicly, if only with self-proclaimed representatives of the interests of the Russian Federation they will arrange a cheap performance for round idiots.
  • aszzz888 18 February 2020 10: 44 New
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    Netherlands intelligence document: MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on maps
    They smoked, and the golan fake. bully
  • Olya Tsako 18 February 2020 10: 58 New
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    And what to do with such information: ???
    "The Joint Investigation Team (SSG) - the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Ukraine, Belgium - at one time discovered and showed parts of the 9M38 rocket found near the crash site of the Boeing from the Buk installation - an engine and nozzle that have their own individual serial numbers And thus allowed the Russian Ministry of Defense to collect irrefutable evidence.

    According to the documentation of the Buka manufacturer - Dolgoprudnensky Research and Production Enterprise - it was possible to establish that these engine and nozzle were delivered to the 9M38 factory product with serial number 8868720, where the first 8 is the company code, 86 is the year of manufacture, and 8720 is factory serial number. The rocket was assembled on December 24, 1986, received the side (combat) number 886847379, and only 5 days later, on December 29 it was sent by rail to the duty station, in the military unit 20152 in the Ukrainian SSR .. Where it was put into service in early 1987 . "
    The Netherlands found even pieces of Buk missiles with serial numbers.
    1. New Year day 18 February 2020 11: 41 New
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      Quote: Olya Tsako
      Where it was adopted at the beginning of 1987. "

      From that military unit
      Yushchenko before 08.08.08 transferred / sold the division of Georgia. As our trophies are officially listed 2 combat-ready installations along with missiles
      1. Olya Tsako 18 February 2020 12: 04 New
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        You are in the Ukroinformational Agency, completely lost the scent "As our trophies are officially listed 2 combat-ready installations along with missiles"
        Who will believe Ukropropagondonams? "OUR TROPHIES" Schenevo dead?
        1. New Year day 18 February 2020 14: 12 New
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          Quote: Olya Tsako
          You are in the Ukroinformational agency, completely lost the scent "As

          how much pathos and stomping feet! You don’t even read the “Red Star” of the RF Ministry of Defense!

          http://old.redstar.ru/2008/10/08_10/2_03.html
          “... In addition to the wrecked trucks, they found a whole battery of Buk air defense systems. Two missile launchers were covered with protective tents, and two self-propelled firing installations with antenna systems were driven into the boxes.
          “I know perfectly well what, with skillful control, these anti-aircraft missile systems are capable of,” Major Vitaly Baranchikov recalls those events. "
          Further, I think, you can read?
      2. ANB
        ANB 18 February 2020 13: 44 New
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        For starters, where are the invoices?
      3. reservist 18 February 2020 14: 01 New
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        Quote: Silvestr
        Yushchenko before 08.08.08 transferred / sold the division of Georgia.

        why then the documents for the transfer by the Ukrainians and the acceptance by the Georgians of military property, in which the product numbers should be, are not made public? and in terms of the removal of the division from combat duty should have been issued accordingly ...
        1. New Year day 18 February 2020 14: 15 New
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          Quote: reservist
          in which should the product numbers not be made public?

          1. reservist 18 February 2020 14: 58 New
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            and where is the serial number of the product 9M38M1?
            1. New Year day 18 February 2020 15: 01 New
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              Quote: reservist
              and where is the serial number of the product 9M38M1?

              But should he be here? This indicates
              Quote: reservist
              ... transfer by Ukrainians and acceptance by the Georgians of military property

              product numbers are very deeply hidden.
              1. reservist 18 February 2020 15: 48 New
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                We return to the question of the documents, according to which the product 9M38M1 was transferred to the Georgians ...
                1. New Year day 18 February 2020 16: 50 New
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                  Quote: reservist
                  We return to the question of the documents, according to which the product 9M38M1 was transferred to the Georgians ...

                  it is in the General Staff of either Ukraine or Georgia
                  1. reservist 18 February 2020 17: 08 New
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                    the lack of transfer documents from both the Ukrainian and Georgian sides suggests that the missile with the "necessary number" still remained in that military unit and was not transferred to any Georgia, otherwise they would have been a long time ago " mixed with g @% # ohm "...
                    1. New Year day 18 February 2020 17: 26 New
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                      Quote: reservist
                      the lack of transfer documents from both the Ukrainian and Georgian sides suggests

                      I also thought about this, there are only 2 options: .1. that rocket remained in Ukraine.
                      2. she was in Georgia, but then again, again options.
                      She was shot at by Tu-22, she came to us. I think the archives have already pocketed the Americans and maybe they will pop up or not pop up in court as a "cherry." Or maybe, corny, the documents are lost. The silence on this issue is not entirely clear, however, like the demonstration of the number by the Dutch. It was painfully good after the explosion, the number was preserved, again there are scuffs on some numbers. All this is thoughtful.
                      1. reservist 18 February 2020 19: 35 New
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                        what's the point of keeping the rocket documentation pending trial? Well this is how much it was possible to "pour the crap" without delaying the matter ... the video clip from the Internet was done, and here the documentary evidence ...
                        if "documents are lost", then an act of writing off the documentation is drawn up, where such? they didn’t lose the school diary ... and so that Ukrainians and Georgians lost their documentation at the same time ...
                      2. New Year day 18 February 2020 20: 06 New
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                        Quote: reservist
                        what's the point of keeping the rocket documentation pending trial?

                        Theoretically: the stuffing with the number was on the court, a completely different number pops up or even indicated. Our Moscow Region proved that this number was transferred to Ukraine. And suddenly Ukraine takes out a magazine. where indicated, a product with this number has been transferred along with Georgian installations. And the Georgians confirm this fact with papers. Where did the rocket leave Georgia? Either in the sky when the Tu-22 was shot down or not used. And if you didn’t use it, then where is she ...
                      3. reservist 19 February 2020 10: 29 New
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                        Quote: Silvestr
                        And suddenly Ukraine takes out a magazine. where indicated, a product with this number has been transferred along with Georgian installations.

                        and the examination shows that either the factory documents from Dolgoprudny or the “suddenly appeared Ukrainian-Georgian magazine” is a fake ...
                        since no magazine has yet surfaced, then most likely it will never be ...
  • voyaka uh 18 February 2020 11: 14 New
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    Everything is clear here. Both the Ukrainian Buki, which were at the bases, and the Russian Buki, which were at the bases, did not reach.
    This was reported immediately as a reference. Where is the sensation?
    The liner was shot down by Buk, brought to the area where the liner was shot down.
    The dispute was only where he was brought from and who.
  • serezhasoldatow 18 February 2020 12: 04 New
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    Now they will be looking for the MIG-31 VKS of Russia, which shot down a Boeing. They cannot pull, pull, pull. They won’t find a mouse in any way.
    1. ANB
      ANB 18 February 2020 13: 49 New
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      All the fuss of the “investigation” and “court” is only around attempts to prove that Buk was imported from Russia to Ukraine. And then no one investigates anything.
  • Uh Neuhov 18 February 2020 14: 32 New
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    In general, how did the confident version immediately appear that the MH 17 was shot down precisely from the Buk missile launcher? After all, the wreckage of the aircraft began to be examined later.
    MH17 flew out of reach of the Buk air defense systems marked on the maps - that was understandable. What's next?
    Was the incident with the avaliner adjusted in advance or some accident? Did the MH17 route change in flight or not? Shots from the Buk missile defense system without a rocket is it specifically for a certain window dress?
  • Seal 18 February 2020 16: 30 New
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    The document states that the MH17 flew over the eastern part of Ukraine with such a route that was out of reach of Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, the locations of which on the maps were marked by the Ukrainian and Russian sides.
    So what ? So Kolomoisky confessed to them exactly where he installed the Buk complex bought (or obtained in another way) from the APU.
  • senima56 18 February 2020 17: 08 New
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    Then where did the rocket that shot down the Boeing come from ?! Didn't he explode himself?
  • 320423 18 February 2020 19: 29 New
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    And here, in general, Russia, L / DPR are parties to the conflict, Russia is not
    The second moment, Russia provided data on a missile transferred to Ukraine and I have the feeling that this is an attempt to smear the Nazis / Bandera and confuse the inhabitants in Europe from the fact that the Dutch trackers are in share!
    It happens my opinion and the wrong laughing
  • Vladimir Mashkov 18 February 2020 20: 51 New
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    Just stuffing. There are three goals. The first is to distract from the Ukrainian Bukov. The second is to confuse even more. The third is to draw attention to the rotten business.
  • svoit 18 February 2020 23: 16 New
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    Quote: Andrey.AN
    if the Russian Federation is accused, they will not give protection representing the Russian Federation

    The Russian Federation will not be charged as long as 3 citizens of the Russian Federation are accused, lawyers are appointed to them. From the point of view of the investigation, their fault is, albeit small, but they hope to go out to others who can be charged with, at best, Russian officials. In all this matter, it is still not clear what the role of Russia is, that it doesn’t sideways - that’s clear, but why is there data only from the civil Rostov radar? Where are the others? Or is our whole South a continuous hole? and courtyard?
  • svoit 18 February 2020 23: 23 New
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    Quote: Andrey.AN
    if the Russian Federation is accused, they will not give protection representing the Russian Federation

    The Russian Federation will not be charged as long as 3 citizens of the Russian Federation are accused, lawyers are appointed to them. From the point of view of the investigation, their fault is, albeit small, but they hope to go out to others who can be charged with, at best, Russian officials. In all this matter, it is still not clear what the role of Russia is, that it doesn’t sideways - that’s clear, but why is there data only from the civil Rostov radar? Where are the others? Or is our whole South a continuous hole? and courtyard?
    Quote: voyaka uh
    This was reported immediately as a reference. Where is the sensation?

    It is that the Dutch intelligence was not able to open the relocation of other air defense systems. That is, just sat in a puddle
  • svit55 19 February 2020 23: 39 New
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    RT writes that about the absence of Bukov was reported by Dutch intelligence back in 2016, but it was ignored. I don’t like that our people are silent, Sands grunted something ...