Russian computers: the main advantages and problems of entering the market


Russia is one of the few countries in the world where processors for computers of its own manufacture are produced. But can they compete with foreign equipment? Let's try to figure it out.


To begin with, in recent years, the need to develop and supply domestic-made processors to the Russian market was caused not only by economic considerations, but also by political events: anti-Russian sanctions, worsening relations with the West, high risk of information attacks on companies and government agencies. Therefore, domestic technology received a “new breath” and support from the government.

Recently, the state corporation Rostec presented at the next specialized exhibition prototypes of computers in which the Elbrus-1C + processor is installed. The Russian operating systems Elbrus Linux, Neutrino, Astra Linux, Alt, office packages MyOffice and LibreOffice, also developed by domestic programmers, are installed on such computers.

The most important advantages of Elbrus processors are good technical specifications. Thus, the important technical features of computers include an uninterruptible power supply integrated into the case, a smart card reader in the keyboard, an autopsy sensor, integrated camera and speakers, and a high-quality display. Also, the undoubted technical advantages include a high level of protection against information leakage and cyber attacks, and the absence of “bookmarks”.

In addition, the undoubted advantage, especially when used in strategic corporations, for the needs of state and military service, is the domestic origin of these processors. It allows us not to depend on foreign supplies, to work calmly even under conditions of sanctions, which is very important, given the global political situation. The need of Russian companies and government departments for such processors is estimated at hundreds of thousands of units.

New processors are needed, first of all, by military and government structures. But the main factor in the global computer technology market is the demand from the ordinary consumer. In today's world, there are three undisputed leaders in the computer industry involved in processor architecture - these are Intel x86, ARM and MIPS. At the same time, the spheres are divided: ARM are mobile phones and tablets, MIPS are industrial computers, Intel are personal computers and laptops.

Among the Russian processors, only the mentioned Elbrus can claim the personal computer market, but their characteristics do not yet allow them to win the sympathy of the consumer. And it is not so much about technical flaws, but about the fact that the Elbrus is more likely to be used for the needs of state structures and industry. Where foreign software cannot be used, there are Elbrus.

But in the global and even domestic consumer market, Russian computers are represented at a minimum level. And this is understandable - for the mass consumer, information security issues of the device occupy one of the last places in the list of desired characteristics. An average person who buys a PC for himself, protection from cyber attacks may be interesting, but it will never be a determining factor, putting into the background the convenience of work and, most importantly, the cost of a computer.

However, a start has already been made. The appearance of domestic processors, according to their technical data not much inferior to foreign ones, is an absolute achievement of Russia. I would like to believe that the time is not far off when Russian processors will be produced for the mass consumer as well.
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  1. Yrec 17 February 2020 10: 40 New
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    Question price? The figures voiced earlier caused only hysterical laughter.
    1. Same lech 17 February 2020 10: 43 New
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      I would like to believe that the time is not far off when Russian processors will be produced for the mass consumer as well.


      Dreams of dreams ... I would like to see this bright future during my lifetime. what
      200 000 rubles for a computer of our production with mediocre capabilities ... something that the price does not appeal to.
      1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 10: 52 New
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        Quote: The same Lech
        that the price does not appeal.

        The possibilities are the same ...
        1. Loess 17 February 2020 11: 03 New
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          Quote: mat-vey
          The possibilities are the same ...

          Until they gain experience and technology work out, this is not surprising. Creating a competitive model from scratch is impossible.
          1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 06 New
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            Are you sure that from scratch? And "experience" has long been working for competitors ..
          2. Paul Siebert 17 February 2020 15: 28 New
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            Experience is a matter of gain ...
            Ask - where does he come from?
            For more than ten years, enormous state appropriations have been spent on the needs of the muddy office, which is occupied by "nanotechnologies."
            "Rusnano" leads unforgettable - the eternal Chubais.
            Is it time to take it by the nostril and ask about successes. About trillions spent.
            On the economic impact of this all-Russian scam.
            To set the condition - during the year to organize the mass production of competitive Russian chips in several regions of Russia.
            In case of failure of the task - “the participant’s point passes to the audience”, or to the prosecutor’s office ..
            Better to the people! .. am
            1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 09: 16 New
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              Is it time for you to stop writing complete nonsense on issues in which you do not understand anything. To make a competitor to the Intel i-core, investments of hundreds of billions are needed, no country can pull it off, as for existing manufactures, they are all niche, or work with more affordable technologies. And they work well. Well, if Rusnano doesn’t report anything to you, and you were banned in Google, then this is exclusively your problem.
              1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 36 New
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                Quote: EvilLion
                Is it time for you to stop writing complete nonsense on issues in which you do not understand anything. In order to make a competitor to Intel i-core, hundreds of billions of investments are needed, no country can pull it,

                It is absolutely true, though the price of the issue is different for different countries - it may take several tens of billions of dollars, but the order is approximately the same.
                But this is not even the case - let's say we find money. But who will buy our products from us, no one thinks, and it seems to everyone that our domestic market will provide profitability for such production. Dreamers, no words ...
              2. Sencis 19 February 2020 00: 51 New
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                Well, if Rusnano doesn’t report anything to you, and you were banned in Google, then this is exclusively your problem.
                And it seems to you that Chubais is personally reporting, well then, what has been done recently? Yes, even what has done for all the time?
              3. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 30 New
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                "Intel rival" - do you know who is the creator of Intel processor ?? Pentkovsky, Vladimir Mstislavovich - he is the developer of Elbrus. He did not like Elbrus, Elbrus heats up and "dulls" on overheating. Until now, in space flights, troubles with devices with it. Elbrus should be sent to the furnace and other architectures should be developed.
                1. Magv 22 February 2020 00: 32 New
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                  Any percent stupid on overheating, carry strange gossip
                  1. l7yzo 22 February 2020 06: 19 New
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                    All claims to email. base. She's threshing floor.
                    Prots Intel pro has become a springboard, it is based on the essence of Elbrus-3 architecture. Before that, Intel had Merced - gluttonous and very straightforward.
                    And Elbrus-3 was essentially the first EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing - Computing with explicit parallelism of teams), it was a cut above the competition.
                2. mat-vey 22 February 2020 05: 29 New
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                  Quote: l7yzo
                  "Intel rival" - do you know who is the creator of Intel processor ?? Pentkovsky, Vladimir Mstislavovich

                  Pentium is just one of the architecture of vashcheta.
              4. boni592807 23 February 2020 15: 48 New
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                Everything is correct. And everything is right in its own way. hi
                BUT little BUT !!! stop
                1. Recall the "Atomic Project" of the USSR, the USA, having the experience and having seized specialists by the fascist Germany, she got the "opportunity" to designate Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the USSR.
                Now for Russia, the situation with the computer equipment (technologies) is the same as with the atomic bomb. good
                2.Recall the USSR, this is not the Ivory Coast and were far from the last on this issue in the USSR. For example, if you recall the project "Red Square" and work on the automation of processes 60-80s (economics, production and VT).good
                3. During the collapse of the USSR, in the Russian Federation, many of our specialists (for a penny (for them) worked for them. PR. For Microsoft. Thanks to the "heavyweights" and "technocrats" in the Government of the Russian Federation, they themselves "fused" our specialists for a cordon. fool
                4. BUT the experience of China, which has gone from home-blast furnaces to 5G. belay
                5. Those. need to work. In the Russian Federation, with "partners", with "friends" that now them. With the search and implementation of technologies and production (mass dual-use products. When relying on the domestic market and something wisely for sale. The price will be much lower. Provide purchasing opportunities for enterprises and people of the Russian Federation, real money, for real work.
                Everything is possible - Will, desire, result !!! repeat
        2. ZAV69 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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          Quote: mat-vey
          The possibilities are the same ..

          For many things, this is redundant.
          1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 51 New
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            Quote: ZAV69
            Quote: mat-vey
            The possibilities are the same ..

            For many things, this is redundant.

            For example?
            1. edasko 17 February 2020 17: 51 New
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              For example, it is quite possible to type texts of letters to the secretary on the 486th.
              1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 17: 54 New
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                Well, yes, sending an e-mail is already another computer to include. And is all this a lot?
                1. Magv 22 February 2020 00: 39 New
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                  A smartphone or tablet is enough to send an email. The overwhelming majority of staff members turn on for space heating because of a bunch of unnecessary services, constantly working software and browser advertising. A dying example of computing power.
                  1. mat-vey 22 February 2020 05: 27 New
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                    Quote: MagV
                    A smartphone or tablet is enough to send an email.

                    Well, you started another computer. On 486, none of the even newer browsers, messengers, or anything that doesn’t even start doesn’t even install.
                    Presenting accounting on smartphones.
                    1. Magv 22 February 2020 18: 04 New
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                      what nonsense - yes, not the latest browser versions - most of them work fine on 386 as well - so far there is a 2-processor 386 server on the experiments. From all your comments you can see how far you are from the essence of the subject.
                      1. mat-vey 22 February 2020 18: 17 New
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                        And what is the "essence of the subject"?
                      2. Magv 22 February 2020 20: 12 New
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                        in understanding the history and motives of development, how it all really works, and what and for whom and why - it's simple .... no one argues that it is incomparably better to have an increase in capacity at the same cost - the question is why. the funny thing is that to block the unnecessary features that are pushed into OSes, application software, content on Internet sites, other information, you need to make extra efforts and spend extra power ... the computer and the entire infrastructure are systemically turned into trash, which is controlled by end users long lost and this is done knowingly
                      3. mat-vey 23 February 2020 03: 14 New
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                        And what was wrong about this “essence”?
        3. ZAV69 17 February 2020 19: 17 New
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          Quote: mat-vey
          For example?

          Automatic telephone exchange SI3000, the stone in it is P III 1000M. This is enough to pull 70 subscribers and still route transit traffic. Well, take another 000K16F20 lathe. There percent in general in 3, if not older. The machine can handle the job.
          And there are a lot of such tasks. Why are there processors with 8 cores and 4 gigahertz? Or take a home NAS D-link 623. There percent some kind of arm. In 1994, the P166 MMX performed similar work. Not only performed redundant for a home NAS.
          Now such equipment is simply exhausted everywhere, so they replace it with cool servers because there is no other.
          So 90% of the work can be done on equipment with 65 nan nanocircuits, we already do it.
          1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 19: 21 New
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            What does this have to do with the staff? Immediately they are talking about everyday life .. Well, and again, whose iron you listed?
            1. ZAV69 17 February 2020 19: 51 New
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              Quote: mat-vey
              What does this have to do with the staff? Immediately they are talking about everyday life .. Well, and again, whose iron you listed?

              The most direct. How many staffs are operated in business and various state structures? A lot of. What tasks do they solve? Mostly correspondence, surfing, a bit of multimedia, all sorts of messengers, the same Skype business. Any business now is a web application or application on terminal servers. Personnel for this resource needs a minuscule. Baikal or Elbrus of the younger series is quite enough. That is, you can safely replace the entire fleet of staffers with domestic ones. But there is no political will in our state to do this. Therefore, consider the production piecewise, and there is no introduction except for the warrior.
              And if you look at the household, then a lot of people also do not need crazy speeds and computing power. I work with Internet subscribers. It is full of cases that a person does not have a computer at all. Man manages the phone. Concludes an agreement on the Internet, connect ip tv and use the Internet from a smartphone.
              1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 19: 55 New
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                Well, just for such tasks, at the price of one Elbrus, you can buy iron for an entire office, or even more than one and with the periphery do not suffer and do not bother with software ..
                1. ZAV69 18 February 2020 07: 26 New
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                  Sure. But only with this approach, we find ourselves without our percentages and head over heels in other people's hardware and software bookmarks.
                  1. mat-vey 18 February 2020 09: 48 New
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                    They answered you below .. just do not "find ourselves" but already, and with such effective ones without any prospects ..
                  2. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 37 New
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                    What are the hardware bookmarks ?? At the network level? applied? channel?
                    Yes, I agree about sotiks - you don’t even have an admin panel, there is a low-level axis that wants to and turns off. But for example, on Windows, you can completely command the dos. Well, if the assembler level is connected, then the network may not understand you. It does not always support such protocols, because the network layer is already at the OS level.
              2. EvilLion 18 February 2020 09: 25 New
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                Now this is manifested in the replacement of full-fledged hardware with mini-PCs from laptop components. In principle, not even processors, but storage devices and memory are important here.

                It will not work to replace it with a domestic one simply by force of the will, since it will be necessary to increase their output every 100 times, and for this we need photolithographic installations, which we do not do. And just them in the world you can buy only those that any Intel and AMD are decommissioning, that is, they need development with investments in several spaces, and then there are endless problems with software, since there is no Linux in the office will not work, there are enough problems with standard hardware.
                1. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 39 New
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                  We have for example Rosa, based on Debian. Very stable and decent.
                2. Sanichsan 20 February 2020 17: 47 New
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                  Quote: EvilLion
                  since no "Linux" will work in the office, there are enough problems with standard hardware.

                  will be! here the scarves on it really will not be, from which the myth of the unsuitability of Unix for office was born wink
                  if you need work, and not a comfortable time for staff, then Linux norms yes
            2. EvilLion 18 February 2020 09: 18 New
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              A housekeeper can always be bought, and cheaply, no suck'tsii not hurt. It may not be possible to buy military or industrial equipment with a 200 MHz percent, but implemented a bunch of more important technologies.
              1. mat-vey 18 February 2020 09: 51 New
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                The main problem is surrendered, as always with the dominance of effective ones - brains. They are not prepared, not used, and generally ....
                1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 47 New
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                  Given the changes in the computerization of state. the device over the past 10 years, and the fact that we have one of the most luxurious and cheapest Internet in the world, I do not see any problems with the brain.
                  1. mat-vey 18 February 2020 10: 52 New
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                    I'm talking about the design and debugging of architecture, it seems to be a closed, even secret process, but the specialists are very specific ..
                  2. ZAV69 18 February 2020 12: 36 New
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                    We in Russia are developing all kinds of telecommunication equipment, so there are specialists.
                  3. Sanichsan 20 February 2020 17: 50 New
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                    Quote: mat-vey
                    here it seems to be a closed, even a secret process should be, and the specialists are very specific ..

                    hmmm .. Technopolis GS in Kaliningrad? private by the way ... just works on a household profile. and domestic specialists there ...
                2. ZAV69 18 February 2020 12: 34 New
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                  And here is the problem with the brain. Our state apparatus and brains that are effective are flashed with one program: cut a steal here, dump grandmothers in Cyprus (where their uncle will pick them up), dump them in London, and from there cry about what a bad Putin.
                  The fastest way to do this is with the company, HP, Acer and other foreign offices. Therefore, we do not see computers with Russian proyets as our ears.
  2. Paul zewike 17 February 2020 12: 10 New
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    How can one perceive the opinion of a person who does not know how to write the word "too"?
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 12 New
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      Just like yours.
    2. mat-vey 18 February 2020 11: 43 New
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      The sky flares, waking the wind
      Awakened roar of bird voices.
      Cursing everything in this world,
      I again run into the wilderness of forests.
      Rustling animals, running out to meet,
      Friendly legs Masha:
      I’ll stay here all evening
      Immortal creations while writing.
      But crawling for a moment from the mud unsteady,
      Swamp green
      Pokes me a caring smile
      Great Spelling Dictionary.
      - A. Matyushkin-Gerke
  • Stas157 17 February 2020 11: 30 New
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    Recently, the state corporation Rostec presented at the next specialized exhibition prototypes of computers in which the Elbrus-1C + processor is installed ...

    Key Benefits Elbrus processors - good technical specifications.

    40 nm production technology ... How many generations is the lag? The once backward Chinese have already released 7 nm processors ... And the prices are also amazing.

    I understand:
    high level of protection against information leakage and cyberattacks, lack of “bookmarks”
    certainly important, but why so praise this "miracle" of engineering. From this we begin to look even more wretched.
    1. sergo1914 17 February 2020 11: 48 New
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      Quote: Stas157
      40 nm production technology ... How many generations is the lag? The once backward Chinese have already released 7 nm processors ...



      1. svd-xnumx 17 February 2020 17: 14 New
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        I have Athon installed on a computer purchased in 2007 using 90nm technology, I don’t know if it is worth bundling? I think the technical process is not so important for desktop systems and workstations, the main thing is performance.
        1. ccsr 17 February 2020 18: 52 New
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          I also have an ASUS laptop of the same year with Vista. And interestingly, it works better and faster than my two subsequent heaped-up laptops - a paradox and more. True, I doubled the RAM, and I stopped there, but it works perfectly, but I can’t use Skype anymore ....
          1. nikon7717 17 February 2020 22: 28 New
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            +. Cooling. Operative + vidyuha. By ssd memory, not a screw, well, and communication. Judging by the processing, loading, a household computer, a laptop is rarely even 50% loaded even when the program or system freezes. Quite the performance is enough.
            1. Stas157 18 February 2020 09: 39 New
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              Quote: nikon7717
              a household computer, a laptop is rarely even 50% loaded even when the program or system freezes. Quite the performance is enough.

              Open 20 tabs in the browser, and preferably two browsers ... and look at what 50% of your laptop is loaded.

              You prompt a configuration of the laptop. I have an i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, an SSD drive. And I’m completely lacking in performance!
              1. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 57 New
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                And this is a very interesting topic, here it is necessary to take a look at the topic of scripts and where they are now being processed. Previously, the pages were very lightweight and were processed on the server in the script using the code. Scripts are now being processed on the client. Those. you open the page - the browser swaps the code, but the code in the visual image gives your computer. he does everything. And accordingly - now there’s a sea of ​​all sorts of goodies, different languages ​​- and so that your browser can digest it, it can be downloaded fully. Well, and accordingly, in order to understand and put everything on the shelves, he needs power heals - that’s what you get. Plus a bunch of bugs and errors. Also eat up the power of the PC.
              2. Magv 22 February 2020 01: 15 New
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                Now I have 93 tabs open in chrome. The computer is 12 years old. Everything flies. It is necessary to follow the technique.
              3. nikon7717 22 February 2020 15: 13 New
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                Performance is not enough when working specifically in your example in a browser, and not in an application on a computer. These are two big differences. The webcam processes a bunch of unnecessary information with the transfer of your actions to update the script on the page. Here is zhor. And when the program is purely 20-40
              4. behappy 23 February 2020 15: 21 New
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                Here the bookmarks were opened by a specialist with what was already open:
                Ubuntu 18.04 LTS:
                - 60 bookmarks in Chromium
                - Terminal
                - TeamViewer
                - PyCharm Professional
                - Thunderbird
                - Turtl
                - Telegram
                - Viber
                - MySQL Workbench
                - still all crap is spinning in the processes (heap!)
                And all in the latest versions and updates !!
                --------
                Configuration:
                Intel® Core ™ 2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz × 2
                Memory 8gb
                160 Gb HDD
                Video - on board (at the same time Monique HP LP2275w)
                Normal old (even already ancient) HP system unit
                --------
                And I note that I am not at all complaining, I just have enough for programming and for relaxation ..
                No brakes. If you need a place to store - in the MEGAsync 50 Gb cloud for free, there and pour).
                So my old percent with 2 GB DDR8 memory and HDD is certainly not with SSD speed.
                Yes, I don’t play games, but .. put something there at 512 Mb / 1 GB - and it will be possible even to something less, but there is no need.

                So I also do not understand people who buy very expensive phones and computers in order to sit in the internet and watch movies ..
                Old iron with a head is enough for a lot, if you head up to it.
          2. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 44 New
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            This is a good example of obsolescence. This is when you have not updated the safari for a long time - everything flies. Updated on safari poppy - and all you have is a calculator right away. It is a conspiracy to make you buy and buy. For example, seven on new laptops just flies. True, after all, her mothers already do not want many, even when editing the registry to understand ... Corporations work ...
            1. Magv 22 February 2020 01: 19 New
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              And there is. On two ancient computers, I specifically keep XP for different needs. I do not see any problems with their performance. From the evil one all these races.
        2. Stas157 18 February 2020 09: 38 New
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          Quote: svd-xnumx
          for desktop systems and workstations the technical process is not so important, the main thing is performance

          The finer the process, the more transistors fit into an equal area. Therefore, productivity also grows with a decrease in the manufacturing process.
    2. tech3030 17 February 2020 15: 35 New
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      The Chinese are essentially releasing AMD processors.
    3. EvilLion 18 February 2020 09: 26 New
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      The Chinese are not able to build a 7 nm lithographic installation. And Taiwan with its TSMC is not China.
      1. Stas157 18 February 2020 09: 58 New
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        Quote: EvilLion
        The Chinese are not able to build a 7 nm lithographic installation. And Taiwan with its TSMC is not China.

        So what? For Elbrus, too, bought a foreign line.

        So you deny the presence of Chinese processors at 7 nm? What is the meaning of your objection?
        1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 49 New
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          Show me a Chinese 7 nm photolithographic setup. And anyone can order in Taiwan, nVidia, it seems, doesn’t have its own production at all.
          1. Stas157 18 February 2020 11: 26 New
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            Quote: EvilLion
            A order in Taiwan can any

            No. Need more processor architecture. If you could order at 7 nm, you would order. And so:
            The latest Elbrus-8C microprocessor is manufactured in Taiwan, at the TSMC factory, since microelectronic productions with 28 nanometer technology do not exist in Russia today.

            Even less modern processors are already being produced in Russia on beushnyforeign equipment.
            The Chinese are doing in their country the process of 14 nm.

            But why did you become attached to these Chinese, because the question was how modern Russian processor, right? And it is separated by a distance from 40 nm (available) to 7 nm (TSMC).
            1. l7yzo 19 February 2020 19: 45 New
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              And what is the essence of the difference of architecture ?? Performance, algorithms, size, wool?
              When you answer this question, you understand that everything is so trite, the difference is like between a 4 and 6 iPhone - like, “Like what, it’s finally cooler than 100 thousand times,” but in fact the cosmetics or something that was cut down by 4.

              I still snag winipm 2,81 - and he is everything except flas and loss. Funny yes. And the installer weighs 2,4 meters. and it also has a graphical visualizer. Compiling and running the code is now very mediocre, because you need to have time to throw something new.
      2. tech3030 18 February 2020 11: 28 New
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        They have 14 nanometers of technical process.
  • Butchcassidy 17 February 2020 11: 48 New
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    The question is the volume of demand. It will be higher, the price will be much lower.
    1. ccsr 17 February 2020 13: 25 New
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      Quote: ButchCassidy
      The question is the volume of demand. It will be higher, the price will be much lower.

      That's right - it is precisely because there will be no demand for our products all over the world that we cannot push billions into the development of certain categories of microprocessors, because it will never pay off. Now we are witnessing a process of reducing gas purchases from us, and everyone needs it. It is easy to imagine that there will still be no demand for our microprocessors, even if they are the best in the world - competitors will not allow us to push our products, which means that it makes no sense to achieve world leadership in this area.
      1. tech3030 17 February 2020 15: 39 New
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        Do we need them? Are airplanes unnecessary? Do we not need our own phones? That is, why such a country, buy everything. Somewhere I already heard. The development of production and technology, jobs is what all this gives.
        1. ccsr 17 February 2020 18: 46 New
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          Quote: tech3030
          Do we need them? Are airplanes unnecessary? Do we not need our own phones?

          We need - in military equipment and weapons, in the aerospace field, in the nuclear field only our equipment. But in phones and other consumer goods, you can do with the Chinese.
          Quote: tech3030
          Somewhere I already heard.

          Even in Soviet times, it was necessary to purchase some of the foreign products through third parties - you simply do not know about it.
          1. tech3030 17 February 2020 19: 08 New
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            Samsung phones sells for amounts close to those for which we sell weapons for export, how do you like consumer goods?
            1. ccsr 17 February 2020 19: 56 New
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              Quote: tech3030
              Samsung phones sells for amounts close to those for which we sell weapons for export, how do you like consumer goods?

              And do you dream of crowding them out on the world market with such turnovers? Will not work. It’s better for us to develop the latest weapons - for this we have our OWN base and excellent long-term production experience. By the way, why Koreans or Japanese can not press the Swiss in the production of watches, especially mechanical? Here is the answer to why we cannot keep up with everything.
              1. nikon7717 17 February 2020 22: 31 New
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                About the watch. In 2019, watch manufacturers from Switzerland for the first time lost in sales of smart watches in the world. Revolution however
                1. tech3030 18 February 2020 17: 06 New
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                  Comrade (mister) ccsr would see how many people wear Swiss chronometers ......
                  1. ccsr 18 February 2020 19: 44 New
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                    Quote: tech3030
                    Comrade (mister) ccsr would see how many people wear Swiss chronometers ......

                    Why would I do this if they still supplied them to Tsarist Russia? If the Bolsheviks didn’t soar from this, then why should the current ones disdain that their ancestors used it?
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 20 New
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                  Quote: tech3030
                  Not for nothing I said about what we don’t have, we will buy abroad.

                  So we still did it under the Rurikovich - what is the problem here?
                  Quote: tech3030
                  Endlessly changing raw materials for products will not work.

                  It will turn out, and for many years. It will be difficult to sell it if such a cheap source of energy appears that we begin to process all the waste and an excess of raw materials appears. But I think I will not see this anymore, judging by how China and India are developing.
                  Quote: tech3030
                  Yes, and Seiko Yapov is also not in the last place in the world. It's about the clock.

                  You confuse the segment of cheap and luxury watches - go to a decent watch salon and look at the price level to understand why no one can squeeze the Swiss.
                  Quote: tech3030
                  Where was South Korea once, in the ass she was if you say in Russian.

                  Well, if they pulled the nuclear and space program like North Korea, then they would hardly have achieved such success otherwise - that’s what nobody wants to take into account. And we had to develop everything ourselves - and we could not be the first everywhere.
                  1. tech3030 18 February 2020 12: 25 New
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                    Stupid conversation. Write to others. I told him about Thomas, he told me about Yeryoma.
                  2. tech3030 19 February 2020 14: 34 New
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                    Let’s dress Russia in an elite watch and with bare back we will walk. Pons are more expensive than money, but in practice, electronics is more accurate than mechanics.
                    е
                  3. Whalebone 20 February 2020 09: 25 New
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                    The Shayeites have long been suppressed. Now boilers for over $ 10K on the wrist are wearing Russian thieves, rappers in the United States, and Saudi princes. The entire middle class (the main consumer) has long switched to smart watches such as AppleWatch. Even familiar top officials put on a smart watch instead of Rado and Omega. In my boxes are TagHoyer and Longin, about 3 years old, as he didn’t put on. I go with a Xiaomi bracelet for 2,5 thousand rubles and I'm not worried. Tsatski went out of fashion.
                  4. ccsr 20 February 2020 11: 40 New
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                    Quote: Whalebone
                    The Shayeites have long been suppressed.

                    I would not say, judging by the fact that in all watch stores they are on sale, i.e. there is a demand.
                    Quote: Whalebone
                    Now boilers for over $ 10K on the wrist are wearing Russian thieves, rappers in the United States, and Saudi princes.

                    This is not the segment that I see in ordinary shopping centers, and which ordinary people buy for gifts.
                    Quote: Whalebone
                    Tsatski went out of fashion.

                    They will never go out of fashion with mature and well-earned men, so do not bury them ahead of time, especially since the Swiss specialize in producing limited editions.
                2. tech3030 20 February 2020 10: 29 New
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                  Creature, deduce from provocation yes to hell with you and with a site that is such a whore. I indulge!
        2. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 51 New
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          Often without intermediaries, including equipment for the military. What is not prohibited is permitted. If the Americans do not beat hands, then the bourgeois will even sell the rope on which he will be hanged. Now, if they beat, then yes, but not caught, not a thief. see above about the rope.
    2. ZAV69 17 February 2020 20: 02 New
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      Quote: ccsr
      It is easy to imagine that there will still be no demand for our microprocessors, even if they are the best in the world - competitors will not allow us to push our products, which means that it makes no sense to achieve world leadership in this area.

      But you can’t do it for yourself? Surely over the hill? Is that the whole point?
      Here your market to fill in volumes unmeasured. By the way, the Chinese made their percent and the fact that it is worse than AMD and Intel does not bother them. In critical places, they will provide themselves
      1. ccsr 17 February 2020 20: 32 New
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        Quote: ZAV69
        But you can’t do it for yourself?

        It is possible, but our needs are limited - our country is far from the USSR, where 286 million people lived, and we have half as much. With limited demand and a large range of products, we simply can not keep up with all the world achievements.
        Quote: ZAV69
        In critical places, they will provide themselves

        So we in critical places - in the defense industry for example - also provide ourselves with all of our own.
      2. tech3030 18 February 2020 11: 33 New
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        I’m tormented here about it. Productivity for yourself, this is jobs, science, the process of movement. There is no movement, no life!
    3. Butchcassidy 17 February 2020 21: 10 New
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      Quote: ccsr
      Quote: ButchCassidy
      The question is the volume of demand. It will be higher, the price will be much lower.

      That's right - it is precisely because there will be no demand for our products all over the world that we cannot push billions into the development of certain categories of microprocessors, because it will never pay off. Now we are witnessing a process of reducing gas purchases from us, and everyone needs it. It is easy to imagine that there will still be no demand for our microprocessors, even if they are the best in the world - competitors will not allow us to push our products, which means that it makes no sense to achieve world leadership in this area.

      Politically argue, chesslovo!

      Technological sovereignty, have you heard anything about this? How much is needed, so much will be injected. Given the need to deal with inefficient spending of funds (SP) and violations (law enforcement agencies and special services).
      1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 31 New
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        Quote: ButchCassidy
        Politically argue, chesslovo!

        Yes, no, we went through this during the times of the USSR, but then there was a different system, and the country could afford what it cannot now.
        Quote: ButchCassidy
        Technological sovereignty, have you heard anything about this?

        I don’t know whether you heard or not, but the USSR was the leader in 600 technologies out of a thousand, which determined the level of world civilization in the XNUMXth century. As you can see, even then we could not afford to overtake everyone in the world, and even more so now. That's why, as the famous saying goes, stretch the legs for clothes ...
        Quote: ButchCassidy
        How much is needed, so much will be injected.

        Do not overtake, as it was in the USSR, when the people began to demand "Down with the CPSU"?
        Maybe the twentieth century shocks are not enough for our people - so say it openly.
        1. Butchcassidy 18 February 2020 16: 41 New
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          Quote: ccsr
          Yes, no, we went through this during the times of the USSR, but then there was a different system, and the country could afford what it cannot now.

          What can we not afford? Technological sovereignty? This is one of the issues of state independence. How much it will cost is uncritical. The army is also expensive to maintain, you know.
          I don’t know whether you heard or not, but the USSR was the leader in 600 technologies out of a thousand, which determined the level of world civilization in the XNUMXth century. As you can see, even then we could not afford to overtake everyone in the world, and even more so now. That's why, as the famous saying goes, stretch the legs for clothes ...

          There is no need to lead in everything. We need to be a leader and at least at a level in critical areas. And electronics is one of them.
          Do not overtake, as it was in the USSR, when the people began to demand "Down with the CPSU"?
          Maybe the twentieth century shocks are not enough for our people - so say it openly.

          No, we’ll not overtake. For we are not overworked. The people began to be indignant when the elite stopped doing this, when ideology became a laugh, but no one really believed in it.

          And shocks will occur if we do not provide everything that I mentioned above.
          1. ccsr 18 February 2020 19: 40 New
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            Quote: ButchCassidy
            What can we not afford? Technological sovereignty? This is one of the issues of state independence.

            Our state services portal does not use information technologies of our defense industry - here is our whole “technological sovereignty”.
            Quote: ButchCassidy
            We need to be a leader and at least at a level in critical areas. And electronics is one of them.

            And I believe that our military-industrial complex, the aerospace industry, the nuclear industry, energy and several other industries for world leadership are quite sufficient for our country. As for the components for electronics, we are unlikely to become leaders here, in contrast to the development of unique software products - this is where the efforts should be directed.
            Quote: ButchCassidy
            No, we’ll not overtake.

            Gorbachev also thought so when he started perestroika, and without calculating what we need and what the consequences will be.
            Quote: ButchCassidy
            And shocks will occur if we do not provide everything that I mentioned above.

            About twenty years I hear appeals like “It's time to pour in from Russia” or “People go out into the square”, and by and large nothing happens, so what about the shocks you greatly exaggerate - this is not the situation, you are evaluating it incorrectly.
            1. Butchcassidy 19 February 2020 10: 08 New
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              Quote: ccsr
              And I believe that our military-industrial complex, the aerospace industry, the nuclear industry, energy and several other industries for world leadership are quite sufficient for our country. As for the components for electronics, we are unlikely to become leaders here, in contrast to the development of unique software products - this is where the efforts should be directed.

              You are confusing something. Being a leader and possessing technological sovereignty over critical industries is not the same thing.

              Our state services portal does not use information technologies of our defense industry - here is our whole “technological sovereignty”.

              You know, we didn’t invent the wheel either, but that doesn’t stop us from using it.

              Gorbachev also thought so when he started perestroika, and without calculating what we need and what the consequences will be.


              What does technological sovereignty have to do with Gorbachev’s restructuring?

              About twenty years I hear appeals like “It's time to pour in from Russia” or “People go out into the square”, and by and large nothing happens, so what about the shocks you greatly exaggerate - this is not the situation, you are evaluating it incorrectly.


              And what do you suggest if the Internet is disconnected? Do you think there will be no shocks? To prevent this, the decision was made to create a duplicate infrastructure to ensure the functioning of the Internet in Russia. Expensive? Of course. Is it necessary? Of course.

              So it’s you who misjudge the situation. Or we are talking about different things.
              1. ccsr 19 February 2020 11: 48 New
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                Quote: ButchCassidy
                You are confusing something. Being a leader and possessing technological sovereignty over critical industries is not the same thing.

                I don’t confuse anything, because if we are not world leaders in any field, we will lose to our competitors and then we will have to bow to them in order to survive. What sovereignty are you talking about?
                Quote: ButchCassidy
                What does technological sovereignty have to do with Gorbachev’s restructuring?

                We then began to concede to foreign competitors in many positions, so we had to start perestroika in order to at least somehow reach their achievements. And for this, Gorbachev made various concessions in order to gain access to their technologies, but they just threw him, and this was related to our subsequent events.
                Quote: ButchCassidy
                And what do you suggest if the Internet is disconnected?

                Create your own, for internal use.
                Quote: ButchCassidy
                Do you think there will be no shocks?

                We have created the greatest country in the world without the Internet, and we still use its achievements, so the Internet has not always decided everything, especially since it cannot be used in closed structures.
                Quote: ButchCassidy
                So it’s you who misjudge the situation. Or we are talking about different things.

                I admit both options, but I will say only one thing - all attempts to make Russia a world leader in everything are doomed to failure, that’s why it’s time to clearly choose several directions for our strategic development and not sprinkle ashes on the head from the fact that we are behind somewhere, such as in auto industry.
      2. tech3030 18 February 2020 16: 56 New
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        We are urged to do nothing and stagnate .... think about it.
        1. Lekz 22 February 2020 20: 25 New
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          You are being called to think with your head. We live in capitalism. It's a shame, of course, but it's a fact. Therefore, the state should do what it needs to fulfill its functions, and the rest, excuse me, should be done by private traders. As part of this approach, the production of an alternative element base is simply economically disadvantageous. It is also disadvantageous to produce and much more. Even if you manage to establish production of Russian Mercedes cars, German Mercs will not leave the world market. And then who will buy yours? Just ask yourself the question that all rich people are tormented both in Russia and abroad: what would be produced, what would be enriched? Everything else is either unprofitable or profanity.
          1. tech3030 23 February 2020 11: 14 New
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            I hear it constantly, we can’t do it, we can’t do it, it’s impractical! Maybe it’s enough to blow it in people's ears? Holland produces ships of which we are not building lines for the production of processors. Do we have less opportunities? I write again, it’s not the government that rules us, but the huckster of the nineties, that’s why the economy is like that. Many people write here on the site to sell us enough resources, as long as they will "have" us everywhere and always.
            1. Lekz 23 February 2020 13: 10 New
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              Those. when they tell you, it doesn’t reach you. I repeat. The state is engaged in the production of what it needs to fulfill its functions. No need to wave "us" and "we." Sorry, we now have private property, including on the means of production. Therefore, stop agitating for the most obvious, but like Musk, Heitz and other capitalists. buy machines, hire workers and produce cutting-edge and high-quality. And, of course, success to you. Hope to see you on Forbes list.
              1. tech3030 24 February 2020 00: 49 New
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                As I understand it, you are one of those hucksters, it makes no sense to talk to you, you are all on the same face. And I don’t understand who gives you the right to speak on behalf of the state ... Good luck to the effective manager, whom you are like trash on the street!
  • Roman070280 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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    I would like to see this bright future during my lifetime.


    In Soviet times, we at least knew how to copy well .. (in some ways, it reminds modern Chinese)

    http://sannata.org/konkurs/2008/kt0829.shtml

    Now just longing in all directions ..
    1. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 13: 29 New
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      You just have to admit that in this matter Russia has completely lagged behind and we will not be able to catch up with them.
  • NEXUS 17 February 2020 12: 29 New
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    Quote: The same Lech
    Dreams of dreams ... I would like to see this bright future during my lifetime.
    200 000 rubles for a computer of our production with mediocre capabilities ... something that the price does not appeal to.

    And in a few years, immediately give you a super computer with a cool processor, which was created from scratch, in fact? Elbrus, Baikal, etc., in fact, everything is growing from the achievements of the Union. And in this race, when we entered it, the West was far ahead already. It takes about 15 years to catch up with its western counterparts. And this is subject to the development of this industry. But at the same time, I think that all these developments will be dragged by the defense industry, which inspires confidence that the industry will not be buried.
    Well, for ordinary users, a domestic computer with decent characteristics will appear in 10 years, I think.
    1. Roman070280 17 February 2020 13: 39 New
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      And you serve immediately in a few years.
      Elbrus, Baikal, etc. is essentially everything is growing from the developments of the Union.


      That's right .. as soon as our state is renamed a couple more times, then it will be possible to talk about demand ..
      And you know what they wanted - for some several decades, immediately give them a computer .. We are not some kind of Xiaomi to spray like that ..

      Well, for ordinary users, a domestic computer with decent characteristics will appear in 10 years, I think.
      America is about to fall apart, the dollar will collapse .. so I think - earlier ..))
    2. vadimtt 17 February 2020 13: 40 New
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      You are an incorrigible optimist hi
      Everything in this industry is so bad that I don’t even know if anyone other than the military and a narrow circle of people from RosKosmos and RosAtom need it (and actually it exists only for them).
      And the domestic EU-1840, with only one keyboard (keyboard, Karl !!!) for 1200 rubles (which I saw on sale, despite the fact that the whole BK-0010 cost 600 rubles), with my salary on the box (programmer-mathematician ) 130 rubles - thanks, no, we’ve already passed laughing
      1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 54 New
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        So there and in the USSR everything was uncompetitive precisely in terms of mass production.
    3. Avarron 17 February 2020 14: 32 New
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      I’ve heard about Elbrus since the 90s. The kagbe has gone a little more than 15 years.
      1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 58 New
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        Since then, there has been progress proportional to foreigners, if not more. And given the slowdown in technological progress precisely in nanometers and the frequency collapse of the CPU at the turn of 4 GHz, the gap will only narrow.
      2. tech3030 18 February 2020 11: 36 New
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        Of course you only hear, because the yachts and villas of our oligarchs are worth more than the production of .da processors and not only them.
        1. tech3030 18 February 2020 16: 59 New
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          This is the oligarchs put me minus? It flatters me!
        2. ccsr 18 February 2020 19: 49 New
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          Quote: tech3030
          Of course you only hear, because the yachts and villas of our oligarchs are worth more than the production of .da processors and not only them.

          And you yourself wanted to live under capitalism in 1991 - so all claims to yourself or to your parents, if you were young at that time. Marx told you that capitalism pursues humane goals, or did you learn this from Engels? They promised you the bestial grin of capitalism - you received it, everything turned out as they warned. So indict yourself that now we are not all the most advanced.
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  • Protos 17 February 2020 13: 44 New
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    Quote: The same Lech
    200 000 rubles for a computer of our production with mediocre capabilities ... something that the price does not appeal to.

    Elbrus server computers for SOHO and not intended laughing
    And complex solutions anthologous in terms of capabilities in bourgeois execution are 2-3 times more expensive, also with software and hardware bookmarks! yes
    1. UserGun 17 February 2020 14: 32 New
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      Quote: Protos
      А anthologous when it comes to capabilities, integrated solutions in the bourgeois version are 2-3 times more expensive, also with hardware and software bookmarks!


      Clap! Clap! ))) Antologous say))) Those. with completely different logic ?! )))

      Well, for your information, the simple i5 is much more productive than this, but it costs several times cheaper. And in figs to anyone unnecessary for the money you still manage to PR at all angles, like clowns, causing only fits of laughter.
      1. EvilLion 18 February 2020 10: 59 New
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        Firstly, find out how this i1 is made, secondly, somewhere in the air defense system i5 will not work, unlike.
  • ultra 17 February 2020 11: 05 New
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    It’s not even a matter of price, albeit expensive, but it would be advanced, or at least at a good average level, development. So this cannot and cannot be. Our microelectronics has firmly settled on, as it were, .... used auto and firmly sits on it.
    1. bessmertniy 17 February 2020 11: 33 New
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      You go to an electronics store, but you don’t have a Russian one. And after all, do not mind supporting our manufacturer with a purchase, but there is no way. request
  • mvg
    mvg 17 February 2020 13: 38 New
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    Question price?

    Not counting that article 2014, about a year. Modern Elbrus-4C, performance on the domestic OS, approximately the same as Intel Core Duo / AMD 64, approximately 2003/2005. Including imported SSD. PC price under 4K $. We put imported Vin10, we lose 25 percent. Imposition, so to speak. Well, if we work with video editing, then all 50. Well, there is simply no domestic software for this processor
    P.S. Dear calculator. I’ll find Granny better than the Spectrum in the country, consider counting a pension.
    https://habr.com/ru/post/389573/
  • EvilLion 18 February 2020 09: 12 New
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    The price is hundreds of billions of green for technology development, software and marketing. Entrance to the electronics markets is now basically closed.
  • mark1 17 February 2020 10: 41 New
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    Well then! ( I'm serious!)
    1. ultra 17 February 2020 10: 53 New
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      What's good? This is the level of 2007-2010.
      1. mark1 17 February 2020 10: 54 New
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        Anyway, good!
  • ultra 17 February 2020 10: 52 New
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    What are you writing nonsense? Everything is produced in Taiwan, we are developing architecture. And we do not have and cannot have mass production. In view of the lack of appropriate capacities. We cannot increase them at the modern level, because no one will sell us equipment. And we ourselves do not produce it.
    1. Same lech 17 February 2020 10: 54 New
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      And we cannot increase them at the modern level, because no one will sell us equipment. And we ourselves do not produce it.

      It’s strange how can electronic equipment for strategic weapons be produced ... you can’t supply imported equipment from the Chinese and Americans there.
      1. ultra 17 February 2020 10: 58 New
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        Large volumes are not required there, existing capacities allow. The Chinese themselves depend on Taiwan.
      2. mark2 17 February 2020 11: 00 New
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        And on this question, creacles have a stupor and they switch to a new topic.
      3. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 17 February 2020 11: 13 New
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        It lags behind in technical level for decades, but for strategic weapons produced in the Russian Federation, the level of the 486th processor is sufficient. For satellites, for example, it’s already not enough, so problems began with the production of satellites during import substitution.
        1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 18 New
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          If NASA’s sclerosis doesn’t change, the main IBM stones of the 1998s are ..
        2. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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          Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
          but for strategic weapons produced in the Russian Federation, the level of the 486th processor is sufficient.

          The “analogue” i8086 (386.486), was developed and produced in the USSR-Russia in the late 80s and early 90s, it is the KR1810VM86 chip on this chip, the Iskra 1030 personal PC was implemented. Chips with this architecture are no longer manufactured and, accordingly, are not used. at least I don’t know.
          1. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 13: 38 New
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            8086 and its Soviet copy of КР1810ВМ86 were 16-bit, and 386 and 486 already had 32-bit registers and the USSR did not seem to do their analogs as far as I remember.
            1. ultra 17 February 2020 14: 44 New
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              From 84 to 89, at Angstrem, the MPK-1839 kit, the first Soviet 32-bit kit, was developed.

              The kit included:
              processor - K1839VM1
              coprocessor - K1839VM2
              memory controllers - K1839VT1 and K1839VT2
              I / O control circuit - K1839VB1
              masked ROM - N1839RE1
              majority element - Н1839ВЖ2
            2. ultra 17 February 2020 14: 56 New
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              Quote: Fan-Fan
              and 386 and 486 already had 32-bit registers and the USSR didn’t seem to do their analogs anymore, as far as I remember.

              Despite the 32-bit capacity, in fact it is a redesigned 086, they are completely interchangeable.
            3. ultra 17 February 2020 15: 02 New
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              The USSR lagged behind the United States in the development of microprocessors, somewhere around 3-4 years.
          2. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 17 February 2020 17: 19 New
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            I mean, for example, 5890BE1T - 0.5mkm, 33MHz, just the 486th level.
            It is clear that it is based on the requirements of security, but the fact remains. They are produced, applied, and solve problems. Of course, they won’t succeed in making a rival to them "vanweb" or "starlink".
            1. ultra 17 February 2020 18: 03 New
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              Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
              Of course, they won’t succeed in making a rival to them "vanweb" or "starlink"

              And what is there such “advanced”? You can get two-way satellite Internet without them, the only question is price.
              1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 17 February 2020 18: 17 New
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                Their advanced network structure and data processing. Each satellite processes information as a Cisco backbone provider cabinet, but in a rugged design. Conventional communication satellites take a signal from a receiver in one band, and feed it to a transmitter in another.
        3. Protos 17 February 2020 13: 58 New
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          Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
          It lags behind in technical level for decades, but for strategic weapons produced in the Russian Federation, the level of the 486th processor is sufficient. For satellites, for example, it’s already not enough, so problems began with the production of satellites during import substitution.

          Update the training manual pliz ... laughing
          Since 2018, communications satellites fly on a fully Russian platform wink
          The UGM-133A Trident II (D5) ICBM uses two 80C186EC processors - (updated i80186) 16bit with a total memory of 512kb bully
          1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 17 February 2020 16: 40 New
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            That's just Glonassa-K since 2014 they stopped launching, so they have not yet begun.
      4. EvilLion 18 February 2020 11: 07 New
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        And you learn the materiel, clown, maybe you will not write nonsense. In the space industry, civilian delicate manufacturing processes are not used, their survivability is low under conditions of strong ionizing radiation, and their productivity is excessive. These are completely separate production facilities with their own requirements, where foreign products are often not allowed. The Americans on the F-35 are also not Intel i-core stand.

        If the missile can be guided using the oak clone Intel-486, and DSP, then it will be induced by such iron.
        1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 44 New
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          Quote: EvilLion
          In the space industry, civilian thin technological processes are not applied,

          These "specialists" do not understand that the defense industry uses completely different microprocessors, in which, by the way, it is much more important to have an extended operating temperature range and high strength characteristics than in household appliances. And there are a lot of restrictions, up to work only on domestic components of the entire product.
    2. Andrey Mikhaylov 17 February 2020 10: 57 New
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      There are at least two large microelectronic plants in Russia: Mikron and Angstrem-T. It is at such factories that they produce various microcircuits. The Mikron plant has two facilities that use silicon wafers of different diameters. These are FAB-200 with a plate diameter of 200 mm and FAB-150 with a plate diameter of 100 and 150 mm.

      In 2006, Mikron and STMicroelectronics signed an agreement on the transfer by NIIME and Mikron of technology for the production of microcircuits using 0,18 micron EEPROM technology.

      And in 2009, the Rusnano Group of Companies and AFK Sistema signed an agreement on the creation on the basis of NIIME and Mikron OJSC of production of microcircuits with technological standards of 90 nm on 200 mm wafers. In this case, STMicroelectronics also acted as a partner and donor.

      In 2012, a line for the production of microcircuits with a topological level of 90 nm was launched at Mikron. The line allows you to produce up to 36 thousand 200 mm silicon wafers per year. Thousands of chips can be located on one plate. In the same year, together with FUO "UEC", a chip was developed for the "Universal Electronic Card".

      In 2013, the production and supply of chips for passports of a new type began.

      At the end of 2014, NIIME and Mikron OJSC released the first domestic 2-core Elbrus-2SM microprocessors, developed at MTsST using 90 nm technology.
      1. BARKAS 17 February 2020 11: 13 New
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        Meanwhile, already in the second half of this year, MCST JSC plans to launch a series of an improved version of the Elbrus-8C processor. The upgraded chip, called "Elbrus-8SV", will receive a core clock frequency of up to 1,5 GHz and support for DDR4-2400 RAM up to 64 GB. Plus, the processor will become much more productive, thanks to an increase in the number of operations processed per cycle from 25 to 48.
        1. spectr 17 February 2020 11: 30 New
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          Too lazy to climb to their site, but some time ago I read that it seems that they only have 1 and 2 Elbrus localized. 4th are still being made over the hill.
    3. The comment was deleted.
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      1. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 02 New
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        I, too, can copy-paste the agitation, will this increase the level of our microelectronics?
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    7. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 08 New
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      You can justify those who have made a mistake. Is it just interesting what your optimism is based on? Do you work in this area or do you have any secret information and we are already ahead of the whole planet in this regard? laughing
      1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 21 New
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        They can only call creacles ...
    8. 113262a 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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      It's a shame, but our factory number 100 in the 80s delivered exactly the equipment for the production of Intel processors to Taiwan
      1. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 53 New
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        Quote: 113262
        It's a shame, but our factory number 100 in the 80s delivered exactly the equipment for the production of Intel processors to Taiwan

        We have "lost" the key technology for microelectronics. Namely, the production of lithographic equipment. And until we revive it at the most modern level, there will be no mass production in our country.
        1. 113262a 17 February 2020 11: 56 New
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          It was the hundredth that produced furnaces for growing single crystals, sawing up processor blanks, and printing, the very lithography.
    9. Firelake 17 February 2020 13: 13 New
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      Forgive me, but our processors are rubbish to put it mildly (if we talk about a home computer). And the second: it will never be cheap because it participates in state orders. You need to understand this point. And the third: some plant is now bankrupt. It was also supposed to release microelectronics, but the bank demanded to return the loan earlier. Now the question is: who needs it? Now the next question: when will state support be clearly?
      As a result, there are a lot of questions. There are no answers. Elbrus for home PC trash. When they make cheap and massive stone at least Celeron level then it will be good. But here I am not sure. For it is not necessary for anyone. It’s easier to sit and cut at the state order. Especially in the absence of competition.
      Sincerely.
    10. mvg
      mvg 17 February 2020 13: 44 New
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      Everything is released in Taiwan

      Baikal in Taiwan, this is Elbrus, Mikron. Line purchased before the sanctions. The development of our architecture, on imported software. Vidyaha, memory, screw import. And much more imported.
  • rocket757 17 February 2020 10: 54 New
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    And it’s not so much about technical flaws, but about the fact that the “Elbrus” are intended more for the needs of state structures and industry. Where foreign software cannot be used, there are “Elbrus”.

    This is perfectly acceptable because it is necessary!
    Just do not jump above your head, do not make stupid statements, but systematically, reliably work and go towards your goal. Everything is fine when the process goes.
  • solovald 17 February 2020 10: 56 New
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    The most important advantages of Elbrus processors are good technical specifications. So, important technical features of computers include an uninterruptible power supply integrated into the case, a smart card reader in the keyboard,

    And where are the "good technical specifications" of Elbrus processors?
    1. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 01 New
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      They would be “good” in 2010, and in 2020 they are below average.
      1. Andrey Mikhaylov 17 February 2020 11: 08 New
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        I SEE Everything is booming in Ukraine
        1. ultra 17 February 2020 11: 13 New
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          Quote: Andrey Mikhaylov
          I SEE Everything is booming in Ukraine

          At first I didn’t want to answer such nonsense, oh well. I was born in the “glorious” city of Grozny, then the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, back in 1966. I had a relationship with Ukraine a long time ago when I visited Crimea as a tourist in the late 90s and the early 2000s, I have been to Donetsk and Kharkov on business. Will there still be questions about my "Ukrainians"? laughing
          1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 23 New
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            Oh sorry, not only "creaks" - but also Ukrainians and State Deputies ...
  • Whatislove 17 February 2020 10: 59 New
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    It can still work for state structures, but it’s unlikely for an ordinary civilian, because the price and quality are not the same. And, like air, we need our own Apple and Samsung, so that we can offer the military, without any risk of being hacked, and ordinary civilian consumers. This is not even an economic, but a political issue, as stated in the article.
  • Vyacheslav Viktorovich 17 February 2020 11: 06 New
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    Among the Russian processors, only the mentioned Elbrus can claim the personal computer market, but their characteristics do not yet allow them to win the sympathy of the consumer. And it’s not so much about technical flaws, but about the fact that the “Elbrus” are intended more for the needs of state structures and industry.
    This is a meaningless statement. Intel processors win consumer sympathy, but work with the same success in government agencies and industry.
  • mark2 17 February 2020 11: 09 New
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    The author raised a good topic.
    I learned yesterday that Russian Railways announced a tender for the supply of 15000 units of computing platforms based on Elbrus. So the other monsters filed a complaint with Russian Railways with the antimonopoly committee for lobbying the interests of one company. Bidding has been suspended. Change the terms of the competition.
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 54 New
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      Quote: mark2
      computing platforms based on Elbrus. So the other monsters filed a complaint with Russian Railways with the antimonopoly committee

      And what kind of monsters do the personalities on Elbrus do?
    2. Ka-52 17 February 2020 14: 54 New
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      So the other monsters filed a complaint with Russian Railways with the antimonopoly committee for lobbying the interests of one company. Bidding has been suspended. Change the terms of the competition.

      and really, why do we need the support of a domestic manufacturer laughing
    3. fsps 18 February 2020 09: 54 New
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      Interestingly, the FAS is now called high treason.
  • Stalllker 17 February 2020 11: 25 New
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    Why invent a bicycle if there are ready-made and working architectures ?! Based on them, the processor is cut down and produced in the Russian Federation
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 27 New
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      What is the licensing you know?
      1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 11: 30 New
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        Of course, what prevents licensing?
        1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 37 New
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          There are not only deductions, there is also production control .. And the ARM architecture for staffers and servers and Western guys, despite the experience and capabilities, can’t normally be washed down.
          Well, where and on what to do? And with whom to cut it? To force and desire here should be applied as if war is going on in the likeness of the Great Patriotic War - but we have been taken.
          1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 11: 47 New
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            You can buy equipment. In general, I do not see the point in the consumer processor
            1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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              Quote: Stalllker
              You can buy equipment.

              Bought already ... It rusts well despite the quality packaging ...
              1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 12: 00 New
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                60 technical process, like, but something is riveted on it
                1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 02 New
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                  Again, AMD’s sclerosis of 45 nanometers ...
                  1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 12: 11 New
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                    What kind of AMD is it now? 14
                    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 13 New
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                      like 7 promise not tomorrow today ... for domestic needs, so to speak ...
                      1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 12: 46 New
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                        The next generation of processors will be at 7 ohms
                      2. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 56 New
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                        Since the end of 2019, they have been baking them for 7 Taiwan ...
                      3. Stalllker 17 February 2020 13: 04 New
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                        And what was released on 7-ke ???
                      4. mat-vey 17 February 2020 13: 12 New
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                        AMD, which for ten years feels great without its own production facilities, managed to cooperate in time with TSMC in the development of 7-nm technology, because the main competitor in this indicator lagged behind it, and one of the main partners in the form of GlobalFoundries eventually summed up, abandoning the development of 7-nm technology. One way or another, the release of AMD's 7nm products began last year, when Radeon Instinct accelerators based on the 7nm version of Vega appeared, and this week the company confirmed its intention to bring Ryzen 7 desktop processors to the market in the third quarter The 3000nm EPYC server processors and 7nm gaming products in the Radeon RX 7 family of graphics cards.
                      5. Stalllker 17 February 2020 13: 28 New
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                        Reisen processors are divided into chipsets and they are produced by different technological processes.
                      6. mat-vey 17 February 2020 13: 32 New
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                        Ryzen third generation ...
                    2. Stalllker 17 February 2020 13: 29 New
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                      But partly it is, a full transition is expected in 2020
                  2. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 13: 46 New
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                    Here's a reference: "AMD introduced Epyc Rome's 64-core server processors based on the new Zen 2 architecture with 7 nm process standards"
                  3. Stalllker 17 February 2020 13: 47 New
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                    We already found out, the topic is closed.
          2. tech3030 18 February 2020 11: 51 New
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            On the seventh, the Raisens came third, and for a long time.
          3. tech3030 20 February 2020 10: 31 New
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            Moderators devil paid!
  • UserGun 17 February 2020 14: 43 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    And the ARM architecture for staffers and servers and Western guys, despite the experience and capabilities, can’t normally be washed down.


    Actually, you have to pay royalties for using the ARM architecture))) And you don’t have to cut anything. You take ready-made modules from ARM, assemble them as they should, licens them from them and at least release them before losing a pulse))) Like all our cross-eyed brothers, along with pagan ami)))
  • xASPIDx 17 February 2020 13: 32 New
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    But what did the Chinese once care about?
  • ultra 17 February 2020 11: 56 New
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    Quote: Stalllker
    Why invent a bicycle if there are ready-made and working architectures ?! Based on them, the processor is cut down and produced in the Russian Federation

    Nobody will sell us modern equipment for production. Maximum of the previous generation.
    1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 11: 59 New
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      28 technical process you can buy
      1. ultra 17 February 2020 12: 03 New
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        Quote: Stalllker
        28 technical process you can buy

        This is a dead end road, and we, unfortunately, are precisely the one to follow.
        1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 12: 10 New
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          In terms of microelectronics, everything is deadlock
          1. ultra 17 February 2020 12: 17 New
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            Quote: Stalllker
            In terms of microelectronics, everything is deadlock

            Unfortunately, not only in this part. In my opinion, the most important thing is education. The level has fallen to a critical level, we are catching up with a "model" for our liberals in the USA. And here the goal is a poorly educated consumer. For whom only credit is in life work-TV-beer-credit. The society of consumption "rules." The goal of the current ruling "elite" is 90% of precisely such citizens in the country.
            1. Stalllker 17 February 2020 12: 50 New
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              Not sure elite stop young people from learning
            2. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 13: 47 New
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              What is wrong with education? If education was poor, there would be no brain drain abroad. And the successes of our schoolchildren and students at international olympiads in the exact sciences indicate the opposite.
              1. ultra 17 February 2020 14: 17 New
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                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                And the successes of our schoolchildren and students at international olympiads in the exact sciences indicate the opposite.

                Do you have children, grandchildren? Did they study, study in a modern school or university?
                1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 14: 20 New
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                  Children have already graduated from universities. Modern. The younger, just a programmer, highly paid professional. Of those who participated in these Olympiads.
  • Efgen 17 February 2020 11: 27 New
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    "Soviet scientists invented a new microcircuit. It has 16 legs and 2 handles. For carrying." 30 years have passed. “Soviet” changed to “Russian” and the number of legs increased. The bitterness of the joke remains the same.
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 11: 42 New
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      There was another - about a Soviet-made micro processor that tore competitors, but when studied with an electron microscope, it turned out to be a tube ...
    2. ultra 17 February 2020 12: 10 New
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      Quote: Efgen
      "Soviet scientists invented a new chip. It has 16 legs and 2 pens

      Soviet microelectronics was quite at the level, and most importantly there were development prospects there. Now we, personally, I don’t see them.
      1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 12: 26 New
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        Soviet microelectronics, in general, was at a cave level. Mostly copies of western samples.
        1. ultra 17 February 2020 12: 35 New
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          Quote: AU Ivanov.
          Soviet microelectronics, in general, was at a cave level. Mostly copies of western samples.

          You worked in this area, so to speak?
          1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 13: 27 New
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            I can compare the avionics of domestic and foreign aircraft of that time. Comparison is far from in our favor. Consumer electronics of those years is again our terrible lag. Computer technology. Basically - copying. Even the primitive ZX Spectrum could not be reproduced: instead of the chipset, several chips.
            1. ultra 17 February 2020 13: 34 New
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              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              I can compare the avionics of domestic and foreign aircraft of the time

              Let's compare, only specifics. But not common phrases. Begin.
              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              ZX Spectrum really could not reproduce: instead of the chipset, several chips.

              Why play it? It's on an 8-bit chip, you want to say that they weren’t made in the USSR? There were a lot of Philips clones of the element base in the household television, so what? It was modern at that time.
              1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 13: 43 New
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                T34VM1 was created only in 1991. I collected “Speccy”, I had such a hobby hack.
                1. ultra 17 February 2020 14: 09 New
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                  For almost all characteristics, the Spectrum is similar to the BK 0010, and the video, so definitely, is better on the BK. And the BK is assembled on the K1801BM1 - a single-chip 16-bit microprocessor that was developed in 1982. It is definitely better than the 8-bit Z-80 developed in the mid 70s , the only plus pc on it is a large number of programs, including gaming, that were written by professionals. In this respect, bk loses, but this is no longer the problem of the hardware itself.
                  1. AU Ivanov. 17 February 2020 14: 38 New
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                    K1801BM1 is 10-15 years behind its prototype. In addition, dead-end architecture.
                    1. ultra 17 February 2020 14: 49 New
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                      Who and whose prototype is z80-8 bit, vm1-16 bit and according to the most modern PDP architecture at that time. What are you talking about?
              2. Andrey Mikhaylov 17 February 2020 13: 49 New
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                The world's largest manufacturer of artificial sapphire glasses was recognized by the Russian company Monocrystal. The success of the enterprise was largely ensured thanks to a contract with Apple, the largest supplier of which it was. Monocrystal's annual revenue was $ 87 million.
          2. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 14: 01 New
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            It is difficult to talk about the level of electronics of the USSR, but the USSR in the 80s was even able to copy the most advanced Western models, and then came “hunchbacked” and you all know how it ended.
        2. Topgun 17 February 2020 13: 54 New
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          you need to look relatively: now the world is already producing 7nm technology, what is available to Russia? 90nm? (tales about 28 are not accepted - only harsh reality) is how many generations of technology? 4?
          The USSR didn’t lag behind, it could take a step by 2 but not by 4-5, and besides, everything was different !!!! and now imagine all that bunch of equipment for the production of microelectronics ...)
          PS: a link to microelectronic layouts in the world https://habr.com/en/post/486326/
          PPS: by the way, on the hub there was somehow a comment of a person who works in Russian microelectronics, and so from his words "Russian only uses electricity in electronics - you even have to buy water for equipment robots abroad because they couldn’t find the necessary purity in Russia" WATER - KARL !!!!!!!, I don’t know, maybe the water has already been "imported", but by the water there is a bunch of everything else? not? I’m silent that the equipment is wearing out and spare parts are needed ...
          these are the pies
          1. Tochilka 17 February 2020 22: 48 New
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            I can say how people working in this industry - water, air and electricity - are domestic. There are even Soviet installations that work quite well to this day. Consumables - plates 150, 200, photoresists - imported.
  • andrew42 17 February 2020 11: 32 New
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    Again awkward nods to Rostec and military products. Domestic electronics and microelectronics are in a state similar to the 1924 tractor industry in Soviet Russia. But digital control systems have been an indispensable condition for technological growth since the 1980s. Therefore, the government chatter about the "digital economy" does not cause anything but irritation from the stupidity of those who utter, in which even with semantics they are very, very bad. If we are talking about a "digital management system" of the economy (which many high-level talkers seem to not guess about), then what kind of system could there be on an imported element basis, and, accordingly, software dependent on it? - Let's demolish the last 2-3 versions of Windows all over the country and see what will happen to the “management”. This is kapets to the entire Russian Office. Further, all industrial lines and machines on foreign-made controllers. Simply put, there is no Panasonic controller - hi-bye production line. That's it. But it seems that Russia’s catastrophic lag in digital technology of its own production of civilian use - this government does not care for decades! Therefore, when government managers talk about "digital economy", it becomes clear that we are all about to "eat a figure" from bravure reports on GDP growth, and not about the technical modernization of our own industry, and even less about the economic Security of the Russian State.
  • Doctor 17 February 2020 11: 39 New
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    In addition, an undoubted advantage, especially when used in strategic corporations, for the needs of state and military service, is domestic the origin of these processors.

    Actually:
    https://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm

    The Russian operating systems Elbrus Linux, Neutrino, Astra Linux, Alt, office packages MyOffice and LibreOffice, also developed by such companies, are installed on such computers domestic programmers.

    Actually:

    "Linus Torvalds - Creator and Principal Coordinator of the Linux Kernel Project"

    In today's world, there are three undisputed leaders in the computer industry involved in processor architecture - these are Intel x86, ARM and MIPS.

    Actually:



    You can not read further.
    1. mvg
      mvg 17 February 2020 14: 01 New
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      Then you can not read

      https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2019-12-25_kitaj_sozdal_universalnye
      Something like this. Competitors are about 5/7 of the fifth, seventh generation. Roots grow from VIA Cyrix.
  • Gust 17 February 2020 11: 44 New
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    Yes, the technical capabilities of domestic factories do not allow the production of world-class CPUs, but the perfection of Elbrus architecture, taking into account the production of top versions in Taiwan, allows us to have completely world-class microcircuits, in terms of performance at GHz. 3-5 years behind the leading players in absolute performance. However, for military equipment and office PCs, the stones produced in Russia are enough for the eyes.
    The issue price of 200000 does not seem so high compared to the guarantee of the absence of bookmarks and incompatibility with various virus software, which is critical for government agencies. In the West, protected PC + software is also not cheap.
  • for
    for 17 February 2020 11: 49 New
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    So, the important technical features of computers include an uninterruptible power supply integrated into the case,
  • Nitarius 17 February 2020 11: 50 New
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    won already west on purchases of the Russian Railways began putting the wheels in the wheel .. immediately Let's complain to the FAS! so .. not so easy!
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 10 New
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      Quote: Nitarius
      won already west on purchases of the Russian Railways began putting the wheels in the wheel .. immediately Let's complain to the FAS! so .. not so easy!

      And what can the West complain to the FAS when conducting public procurements? Purely for knowledge, for ..
      1. Nitarius 17 February 2020 12: 15 New
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        Representatives of the Intel company in Russia in the right .. that the competition law is being violated! the video says it all!
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • Foul skeptic 17 February 2020 11: 59 New
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    office packages "MyOffice" and LibreOffice, also developed by domestic programmers

    LibreOffice's legs grow from OpenOffice, which is StarOffice, which was created by the German StarDivision in the 90s. If I do not confuse anything.
    1. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 14: 04 New
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      Also, the author says something wrong, calling Russian Linux-based operating systems.
  • Ross xnumx 17 February 2020 12: 02 New
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    Russia is one of the few countries in the world where processors for computers of its own production are produced. But can they compete with foreign equipment? Try to understand.

    Naturally! In the military and space industries, where direct transmission of data to “partners” is not needed, and so that spacecraft plow the expanses of space, and not fall like autumn flies ...
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 12: 08 New
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      So a warrior seems to have slightly different requirements for iron than, so to speak, in everyday life ... They have as iron for space - the limit on the technological process, accounting for electromagnetic radiation .. and on workstations and servers cost-effectiveness and super reliability ?.
      1. Fan-fan 17 February 2020 14: 08 New
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        Which others? Productivity and reliability with low weight and volume are needed by both warriors and people.
        1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 14: 24 New
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          Vo-in, really what difference, and then PhobosGrunt bul-bul ...
  • 9PA
    9PA 17 February 2020 12: 36 New
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    News in general went about nothing. Such and I can rivet. But what about such properties as the manufacturing process, the number of cores, architecture
  • Amateur 17 February 2020 13: 01 New
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    At the end of 80 there was the concept of a “white” or “yellow” assembly. My first PC was "Made in Germany". Motherboard is Taiwan at best, and so is China. Processor - AMD or Intel - American. Notebook IBM ThinkPad (IBEmovskogo production) super machine has served me for more than 10 years! Now do in China at Lenovo.
    Where is all this?
    But no one tears his hair on his head.
    Finally, in Russia, after 35 years of devastation, they began to do their thing. So great!
  • Cresta999 17 February 2020 13: 14 New
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    However, a start has already been made. The appearance of domestic processors, according to their technical data not much inferior to foreign ones, is an unconditional achievement of Russia

    What is the beginning? Have they just appeared ?!
  • would 17 February 2020 13: 33 New
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    As a person directly related to IT, I will begin to criticize news written by a person who does not understand anything in the subject.

    Firstly, it’s worth starting with the main question “How much are Russian processors?” Previously, Elbrus 2000, manufactured by the 130 nanometer process technology, was manufactured at the Taiwanese TSMC. And here is 40nm. Where is it produced? Or has our industry jumped so far that it has mastered 40nm somewhere? To understand the issue - at the moment, the latest AMD processors are 7nm, 45nm is the level of 2006-2007.

    The Russian operating systems Elbrus Linux, Neutrino, Astra Linux, Alt, office packages MyOffice, and LibreOffice, also developed by domestic programmers.


    LibreOffice is being developed by The Document Foundation, headquartered in Berlin. And his ancestor was no less foreign OpenOffice. All Linux domestic can be called a stretch because the core itself was developed by Linus Torvalds - Finn. And the fact that on its basis our developers put together a distribution kit that doesn’t do it completely domestic.

    The most important advantages of Elbrus processors are good technical specifications. Thus, important technical features of computers include an uninterruptible power supply integrated into the case, a smart card reader in the keyboard, an autopsy sensor, integrated camera and speakers, and a high-quality display.


    Where are these “good” processor specifications? Why right after they are mentioned we begin to list the features of computers based on this processor?

    In the modern world there are now three undisputed leaders in the computer industry involved in processor architecture - these are Intel x86, ARM and MIPS


    Here it seems the author himself again did not understand what he wrote. About the leaders in the computer industry involved in processor architecture? Where is AMD then? Or maybe the author wanted to say about the developed instruction sets and therefore we see Intel x86 which should be called Intel 80x86? Then again, where is the AMD64?

    Among the Russian processors, only the mentioned Elbrus can claim the personal computer market, but their characteristics do not yet allow them to win the sympathy of the consumer. And it is not so much about technical flaws, but about the fact that the Elbrus is more likely to be used for the needs of state structures and industry. Where foreign software cannot be used, there are Elbrus.


    Again, the author does not understand what he is writing about. Elbrus processors are not and cannot interest ordinary consumers because they use a unique set of teams (which developers are so proud of) and can only work with consumer software in emulation mode. And emulation on that and emulation that there is a significant loss of performance.

    There is no reason for an ordinary user to buy a processor with a unique set of instructions if you can buy AMD or Intel with a standard set of instructions that works with software without emulation. Therefore, only a processor with a standard set of instructions can enter the consumer market, and this will by definition not be Elbrus. And if you look at its cost, then even more so.

    Such systems have at least some sense in enterprises where they require very narrow functionality that is fully provided by the same unique software.
    1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 13: 38 New
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      Well, here's another apolitical reason)))) Go Kreakl? And if you check for errors?
    2. Gust 17 February 2020 14: 02 New
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      A bit wrong.
      1. For the production of 90% of consumer household devices, enough technology mastered by Angstrom and Micron.
      2. The important thing is not that the Linux kernel was developed by Linus Torvalds, but the fact that these platforms have open source code.
      3. The "good" characteristics can be viewed on the ICST site, you can google a comparison of Elbrus performance with x86- the network is full of test results. In terms of megahertz, everything is quite worthy. And absolute performance is architecture + manufacturing process. The first is, but with the second, alas ... But the rest also do not disdain Taiwan. For military applications, Angstrom and Mikron are enough. What's wrong ?
      4. Modern processors are far from CISC, and if you set out to write a funky emulator and optimize the architecture for x86, everything is quite real. There will be Elbrus 2020x86x64 with competitive performance and a horse price tag. Nobody just needs it.
      5. Exactly so. But a state customer can choose to support a domestic producer and developer or a foreign one. And for office applications, the capabilities of office Elbrus + software are enough for the eyes, and the average user does not care at all. And if there is no difference, why support competitors? ;)
      1. mat-vey 17 February 2020 14: 30 New
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        Quote: Rafale
        and if you set out to write a funky emulator and optimize the architecture for x86, everything is quite real. There will be Elbrus 2020x86x64

        Well, there is not x86 architecture but the line starts - the question is ...
        1. would 17 February 2020 14: 34 New
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          No questions asked. It uses a special distribution developed for the Elbrus command set.
        2. mat-vey 17 February 2020 14: 39 New
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          And when they sawed such a line, And what kind of spy did Torvalds know about the architecture of Elbrus?
          1. fsps 18 February 2020 10: 13 New
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            Open source, including the kernel. I wrote a compiler for my architecture, podrihtov architecture-dependent code (very little and only for the kernel), recompiled and ready. In short, you need to work. And learn.
      2. would 17 February 2020 14: 32 New
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        1. And who is talking about 90% percent? I'm talking specifically about modern household computers. Now, with a number of tricks, it’s quite possible to work with the Pentium 4, but buying it in 2020 is a bad idea.
        2. What does this matter in the context of the announcement of the domestic distribution of the Linux distribution?
        3. This is precisely the problem, there is news that sets itself the task of considering the characteristics of the processor, and as a result, they need to be sent to a completely different place. What is wrong with Taiwan? The fact that the processor in the article is claimed as domestic. It would have been explicitly written "produced by the Taiwanese company TSMC" I would have no complaints.
        4. And who says what is unrealistic? It is absolutely realistic to design a domestic x86 processor. That's just it was not designed and you absolutely correctly say that nobody needs it. Because all experts understand that while our developments at the household level have nothing to do, they can not stand any comparison with AMD and Intel. But all this again has nothing to do with the topic of the article because it discusses a specific Elbrus.
        5. How is it to the average user no difference? First, let's start with office applications. Have you ever tried to open a document from Microsoft Office in Libreoffice? I tried more than once, even tried to edit. There is no full compatibility, all attempts to do this with at least a somewhat complicated document ended in failure. And you do not want to with Microsoft Office documents, but you will have to work, the most popular and best office suite. I have not tried it myself, but fellow office workers said that writing really complex documents in the libra is also much worse than Microsoft, bugs, lacking functionality. That is why there are even cases of refusal of Libreoffice at the level of city authorities and the transition to Microsoft Office. I am sure that this is also true for other office suites like "MyOffice".

        Secondly, a computer for this and a multifunctional product that you can do almost anything with it. Do you want to learn traffic rules? Here is a program from the wilds of the Internet. Want to play a toy? On the. Do you want to read a book? Choose from dozens of readers on you. Total standardization allows you to find and use a huge number of software solutions. What about Elbrus? Here you have a system, it has a limited set of software ... and that’s it. That is why it is a specialized product.

        We do not forget about the price of these computers.
    3. Genry 17 February 2020 14: 38 New
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      Quote: rait
      Where is AMD then?

      And to forget IBM is generally article writers ...
      Quote: rait
      and with consumer software can only work in emulation mode.

      Sorry, but emulation is used if you use windows programs. But if you are a Linux user, then the systems listed above can e2k architecture.
      Quote: rait
      Therefore, only a processor with a standard set of instructions can enter the consumer market

      But how dare ARM enter the market?
      Is IBM in the market?
      Quote: rait
      they require very narrow functionality that is fully provided by the same unique software.

      You can use the full supply of open source open source software surrounded by Linux.
      There are all software tools for normal use of the computer ...
      For a gamer, this is of course an “unworthy” system.
      1. would 17 February 2020 14: 59 New
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        And to forget IBM is generally article writers ...


        And them too. But that’s all right, IBM processors are not at the hearing of an ordinary user. But to write an article and not know about AMD ...

        Sorry, but emulation is used if you use windows programs


        And that’s what I’m talking about. The vast majority of users use the Windows OS and, accordingly, software for the Windows OS. And in the near future nothing will change.

        The fact that there are special distributions for Elbrus I know, it's not about them.

        But how dare ARM enter the market?
        Is IBM in the market?


        ARM has become this standard and this is another story
        As far as I know, IBM is now represented by processors only in very specific areas about which the ordinary user is not aware.

        You can use the full supply of open source open source software surrounded by Linux.


        Again, it’s not entirely clear what we are talking about. About emulation? Then, of course, both i386 and AMD64 applications will work, but with corresponding losses. If not about emulation, then you need software at least ported to Elbrus.

        At the same time, I note from myself that even Ubuntu Linux did not take root with us because much of the necessary software is exclusively for Windows.
        1. Genry 17 February 2020 15: 07 New
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          Quote: rait
          what are we talking about here. About emulation? Then, of course, both i386 and AMD64 applications will work, but with corresponding losses. If not about emulation, then you need software at least ported to Elbrus.

          Open source involves publishing source code.
          If your operating system has a compiler that supports the desired language, then you can easily get the native executable code.
          Many programs generally use the interpreters of the Java, Python, ... languages ​​and can work right away.
          1. would 17 February 2020 15: 10 New
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            Open source involves publishing source code.


            What I'm talking about, porting. That is, take the compiler and compile under Elbrus. In your opinion, will a regular user deal with this? We are talking specifically about everyday use because everything is clear with the defense and there are no questions about it.

            Many programs generally use the interpreters of the Java, Python, ... languages ​​and can work right away.


            All the same, not many, and for this, there must be Java and Python under Elbrus.
            1. Genry 17 February 2020 15: 27 New
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              Quote: rait
              Will this be a normal user to do?

              The repository will already be ...
              And it’s easy to start compilation through the “poppy” one time (you can configure it by clicking the mouse).
              Quote: rait
              for this, under Elbrus there must be Java and Python.

              Where without them and the rest are popular.
              1. would 17 February 2020 15: 32 New
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                The repository will already be ...

                Where without them and the rest are popular.


                When will be then come hi

                And it’s easy to start compilation through the “poppy” one time (you can configure it by clicking the mouse).


                Easy for whom? I communicate with ordinary users enough and I can safely say that for many this is definitely an impossible task. While they are broadcasting from somewhere that the system administrator as a profession will die, I can see with my own eyes how even boys enikeyshchiki do not become less popular in the Russian Federation, and in some enterprises they need air.
        2. Genry 17 February 2020 15: 21 New
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          Quote: rait
          I note from myself that even Ubuntu Linux did not take root with us because much of the necessary software is exclusively for Windows.

          Obunta does not relate itself to Linux, although it uses, as a base, Debian. Around her there is too much PR and fanaticism. All their impulses to become legislators of something turned into major mistakes and therefore were not accepted by the Linux community ....
          Now it’s just a beautifully designed system, for some reason much slower than Debian.
          1. would 17 February 2020 15: 29 New
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            Linux kernel? Linux. I cited this distribution as an example as the most famous and at least one of the most friendly friends for non Linux users. That is, this is the Linux with which you can start your acquaintance with Linux and on which in most cases an ordinary person can work.

            Again, if there is no need for software that is only for Windows.
    4. andrew42 18 February 2020 18: 09 New
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      Here is an absolutely competent "flight analysis". And the conclusion I unequivocally support: "Such systems have at least some sense in enterprises where they require very narrow functionality that is fully provided with the same unique software." - only this, and only so. the rest is from the evil one.
  • Arpad 17 February 2020 13: 44 New
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    One of the statements - the lack of * bookmarks * - I do not quite know what it is, but apparently something is not good.
    And how to be sure that they are absent?
    1. Genry 17 February 2020 14: 55 New
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      Quote: Arpad
      the lack of * bookmarks * - I do not quite know what it is, but apparently something is not good

      Bookmarks are pieces of electronics that either perform hidden functions (allow you to connect to the system and pump information), or disrupt the performance of your system (block or bring to destruction).
      Quote: Arpad
      And how to be sure that they are absent?

      Almost everywhere they are laid in the interests of the developing country.
      Americans are very scared of Chinese Huawei ....
      But the Chinese have been supplying their network routers and switches for a long time and were very able to intercept passwords and keys to many servers with important information.
      The Americans themselves have long been hooked on their Intel, ... the whole world and can easily control these information systems.
    2. ultra 17 February 2020 15: 46 New
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      Quote: Arpad
      And how to be sure that they are absent?

      Only if you yourself from and to produce key components, both in the part of iron and in the part of software.
    3. Doctor 17 February 2020 16: 06 New
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      And how to be sure that they are absent?

      They are present. Only they are not from the CIA. laughing
      1. Genry 17 February 2020 17: 15 New
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        Quote: Arzt
        They are present. Only they are not from the CIA.

        Do not confuse bookmarks and vulnerabilities.
        Vulnerabilities are due to the stupidity of developers (Intel record holder).
        Bookmarks - at the request of special services (classified).
  • Shahno 17 February 2020 13: 49 New
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    It is necessary to look a little ahead. Well, it will not pull the RF 10 and 7 nm in percent. But! Organize the process can, for production. And there, both pros and brains will catch up. It’s easier to be, in this sense ...
    1. UserGun 17 February 2020 14: 47 New
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      Well, well ...))) And we can do lithography ourselves, and we have reagents, and scanners ... Yes, yes, yes))) That's it in your wet morning dreams))) The main thing is ORGANIZE, EPT)))
    2. ultra 17 February 2020 15: 49 New
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      Quote: Shahno
      Well, it will not pull the RF 10 and 7 nm in percent. But! Organize the process can, for production.
      With the exact opposite, on the contrary, it is possible to develop the hardware architecture, but the process itself requires equipment that we do not manufacture and no one will sell it to us.
  • Tarasios 17 February 2020 13: 53 New
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    "Russian operating systems Elbrus Linux, Neutrino, Astra Linux, Alt, office packages MyOffice and LibreOffice, also developed by domestic programmers."
    - sounds pathetic and pompous, but to put it mildly - a little embellished;)
    By and large, one cannot say "Russian operating systems" here. In the best case, "Russian versions of the Linux OS." And with what joy is LibreOffice "also developed by domestic programmers"? "LibreOffice is a cross-platform, open-source, open source office suite [7] created as an offshoot of OpenOffice in 2010 [8]. Developed by a community of more than 480 programmers [9] under the auspices of the non-profit foundation The Document Foundation through donations [10] ] of individuals and organizations. "" The Document Foundation is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the development and support of open source software. The fund is organized by former participants in the OpenOffice.Org project. " The fund has already been supported by Google, Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, OSI, FSF, The GNOME Foundation and several other organizations. And what, all these organizations are Russian? I respect patriotic themes very much, but I hate frank lies.
    1. Genry 17 February 2020 15: 33 New
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      Quote: Tarasios
      I respect patriotic themes very much, but I hate frank lies.

      Here, for VO, they often write so pompously for provocation.
      Adherents of the failed ...
  • Protos 17 February 2020 14: 08 New
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    Quote: ultra
    I, too, can copy-paste the agitation, will this increase the level of our microelectronics?

    You can go to the website of public procurement https://zakupki.gov.ru/epz/main/public/home.html and type the word Elbrus bully
    And this is only an open area where Elbrus competes with AMD \ Intel ... but there are also closed areas of the security forces and Rosatom \ Rosenergo \ Roshydro, etc. laughing
  • Shahno 17 February 2020 14: 08 New
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    Quote: Fan-Fan
    Also, the author says something wrong, calling Russian Linux-based operating systems.

    Wrong. Copyright Infringement?
    No, it’s not right. But let's say we need to discuss it. The guys created a convenient platform, thanks or what.
    The slogan is ready. We have created. We will tear everyone ... Why did we create, where did we create it? Sold, conquered the world?
    1. Gust 17 February 2020 14: 14 New
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      What exactly ? If the license agreement is observed. And if you write your OS on the Linux kernel, will it be the Israeli "OS on the Linux kernel" or Finnish? Or American?
  • Kelwin 17 February 2020 14: 14 New
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    The main thing is not to get into the holivar)) Domestic processors for the defense industry and other critical structures are quite suitable and implemented, and rightly so. The problem is expected with mass production - there will be no demand, there will be no volumes. Of course, it’s very interesting to touch this piece of iron, even if it’s 4k, each has its own way, but it is not suitable for everyday tasks, Astra is a little less than none in its capabilities, and rolling Windows in emulation mode is masochism. Well, okay, let the Elbrus work where they are needed, and drive the hentai with tanks on the Intel for now.
  • Shahno 17 February 2020 14: 23 New
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    Quote: Rafale
    What exactly ? If the license agreement is observed. And if you write your OS on the Linux kernel, will it be the Israeli "OS on the Linux kernel" or Finnish? Or American?

    Uhh. Israeli. This is about another matter. In any case, the question arises how much we inherit the "parent". How far away from the "parent".
    Well this is directly related to profit and recognition. Not this way?
    1. Gust 17 February 2020 14: 30 New
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      For example, I have no data on how far the “Russian versions of Linux” have gone far from the “parent”. If it all came down to the banal replacement of the screen saver - it is. And if the core was optimized for Elbrus architecture, then it is already quite deep. And in the broad sense it doesn’t smell like profit - they simply fulfilled the order of the military or other government agencies.
  • Avarron 17 February 2020 14: 30 New
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    Yeah. 45 nanometers in Russia and 7 nanometers beyond the hill. It’s like a cast-iron bicycle and duralumin.
    1. Gust 17 February 2020 15: 04 New
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      It's nice to deal with a specialist;)

      Here's a snap:
      Elbrus-4S (1891VM8YA) is an analogue in the nominal performance of AMD Athlon 64 2,211 GHz (2003) in office applications. When loading the DSP-Core 2 Duo 2,4 GHz. For the office is more than enough.

      "Elbrus 8СВ" Processor-9 "is developed on 28 nm technology (Intel 32 nm), operates at a frequency of 1,5 GHz, has a peak performance of 576 GFlops of single precision and 288 GFlops of double precision. Compared to foreign products according to the characteristics of" Elbrus- 8СВ ”is comparable with Intel Itanium 9760, Intel Xeon E5-2609 v3 and Intel Xeon E7-4850 v4." This is 2016 and the process technology is 14 nm if that.



      https://habr.com/ru/post/389573/

      https://naukatehnika.com/processor-elbrus.html
      naukatehnika.com
      1. ultra 17 February 2020 15: 59 New
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        Well, performance is meant here, and it does not have a linear dependence on the size of the CMOS transistor in stone. Here, switching to the so-called three-dimensional Tri-Gate transistors according to calculations will give a significant increase, up to 40%, in performance. But this is another story.
      2. Topgun 17 February 2020 19: 28 New
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        what 28nm ???????????????
        It’s hard for people to read, here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rYfUO1x_MQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1000
        the man speaks Russian (watch from 16min) that the processors are manufactured in TAIWAN, for the military in Zelenograd there are "twos" https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1 % D1% 80% D1% 83% D1% 81-2% D0% A1% 2B
        it is 90nm, why draw "transoms"? I think that it’s good for the military and 90nm (although I’m sure if the “partners” want them and if they don’t cover it, they can slow down - consumables for manufacturing, spare parts for equipment, etc.)
        here is an article about world microelectronics and a little about Russian: https://habr.com/en/post/486326/
        PS: minus patriots, from your minuses Russia will not become stronger here, there are many other ways to make your homeland stronger, to begin with at least tell the truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlHX_i6nhY watch this video patriots and think ...
  • bandabas 17 February 2020 14: 33 New
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    Those. AMD is no longer a competitor to Intel?
    1. Genry 17 February 2020 16: 22 New
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      Quote: bandabas
      Those. AMD is no longer a competitor to Intel?

      Now swapped.
      1. bandabas 18 February 2020 18: 16 New
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        That is, "Elbrus !. drinks
        1. bandabas 18 February 2020 18: 18 New
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          Everything is more wonderful and wonderful.
  • ultra 17 February 2020 15: 53 New
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    Quote: Avarron
    Yeah. 45 nanometers in Russia and 7 nanometers beyond the hill. It’s like a cast-iron bicycle and duralumin.

    It is immediately obvious that a person does not understand what he is writing about. wassat
  • Shahno 17 February 2020 20: 21 New
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    Quote: UserGun
    Well, well ...))) And we can do lithography ourselves, and we have reagents, and scanners ... Yes, yes, yes))) That's it in your wet morning dreams))) The main thing is ORGANIZE, EPT)))

    I understand your doubts. We also had doubts They pulled them to Kiryat Gat ... you may not. And we had neither equipment, nor materials, nor specialists.
    // Main ORGANIZE, EPT))) //
    Feel free to tell us what matters to us all.
    1. UserGun 17 February 2020 23: 13 New
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      In Kiryat Gat, they do not make ready-made processors, they produce plates, from which the chips are actually cut. The final assembly, testing and packaging of the same Intel Core i3, i5 and i7 processors, which will be delivered to consumers either as ready-made systems or as components, is carried out at one of six Intel assembly centers in America or Asia.

      And this ... Fab 28, Kiryat Gat, this is a division of Intel))) With all that it implies. About what organization Taldychite is here, only Yahweh only knows.
      1. Shahno 18 February 2020 17: 30 New
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        Surprised by your awareness. Anyway.
        1.About the assembly and testing you are not quite right.
        2. Do you think who organizes the entire resource here, Intel is an Israeli contractor, he dictates. Intel gives the name and basic documentation.
        3. As for reagents, scanners, machines here are 50 to 50.
        PS. We do not have China. And Intel here has a completely different interest. And this is not a cheap labor ...
  • evgen1221 18 February 2020 06: 06 New
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    In general, everything is true in the article-Our processors and PCs are not at all for playing shooter games on the network. And more importantly, the energy at the thermal power station will not turn off due to the glitch of a fashionable intel under Windows, from which the Internet will end for all fashionable computers. And this safety is ensured by the inconspicuous and kicking elbrus by all. But this does not cancel the upward movement towards more advanced technologies, but this is already a question for the authorities and their ability to organize and prepare this breakthrough into the future.
  • Million 18 February 2020 07: 56 New
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    An imitation of the vigorous activity in the field of import substitution ... if there are no radio plants in Russia, then what kind of Russian computer are we talking about? Is it possible that the assembly can be local from imported components.
    1. ccsr 18 February 2020 12: 48 New
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      Quote: Million
      .if there are no radio plants in Russia,

      The Sarapul Radio Plant is working - last year I met with one of its leaders, they have orders. By the way, in Soviet times, they did military equipment at the world level, surpassing even the Japanese in certain categories - this is so for understanding that they didn’t slurp their cabbage soup ....
      1. Million 18 February 2020 12: 49 New
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        Something may work for the military. I haven’t seen new domestic radio components on sale for a long time
    2. andrew42 18 February 2020 18: 15 New
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      This is not an IDB. Now it is more intelligently called "Digital Economy"!
  • iouris 18 February 2020 12: 19 New
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    There is no prospect of “entering the market," respectively, and there is no problem.
  • Maks1995 19 February 2020 10: 07 New
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    From empty to empty.
    no numbers, no data

    "I would like to believe that the time is not far off when Russian processors will be produced for the mass consumer as well."

    They no longer call to believe in retirement and a good life ...
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  • Picus 21 February 2020 16: 58 New
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    So what is this watery article about?
  • Vasil K. 21 February 2020 19: 41 New
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    Having Russia’s own is a guarantee that the State Department’s nose will not stick into this niche in order to harm, cause damage!
  • trahterist 22 February 2020 17: 45 New
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    Anything is better than buying everything from behind a hill.
    Accustomed for so many years, "(e) effective and successful," only to trade, and not to develop anything of your own, to rebuild It is always difficult.
    Yes, not for game lovers and other entertainments, which are mentioned every time in articles about Elbrus, but experts with an enviable tenacity worthy of a better application do not notice this.
  • trahterist 23 February 2020 13: 52 New
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    Quote: mat-vey
    Quote: MagV
    A smartphone or tablet is enough to send an email.

    Well, you started another computer. On 486, none of the even newer browsers, messengers, or anything that doesn’t even start doesn’t even install.
    Presenting accounting on smartphones.

    So what?
    On "shovels" - it’s easier than a steamed turnip!
    For a long time already, Windows software is adapted for the same Android (in Samsung, it comes pre-installed out of the box).
    My laptop will soon become dusty, because ALL media files go fine on smart, the beech as such, in principle, is not needed if smart does the same, although you can carry it in your pocket.
    Set by Swype or SwiftKeyboard is generally a song! None of the pros on the standard clave and nearby stood at the speed of typing.
  • trahterist 23 February 2020 13: 56 New
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    Quote: Protos
    Quote: ultra
    I, too, can copy-paste the agitation, will this increase the level of our microelectronics?

    You can go to the website of public procurement https://zakupki.gov.ru/epz/main/public/home.html and type the word Elbrus bully
    And this is only an open area where Elbrus competes with AMD \ Intel ... but there are also closed areas of the security forces and Rosatom \ Rosenergo \ Roshydro, etc. laughing

    It makes no sense to bake off before the next adept of gaming, benchmarks, he is not able to understand the essence.
    For him, a comp-toy to shoot / run with inflated FPS, gigahertz, terabytes and other fraud. All. For a bigger mind Zero.
  • kig
    kig 23 February 2020 15: 18 New
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    It seems that the advantage is only one: the absence of foreign bookmarks.
    1. Arkon 23 February 2020 18: 44 New
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      Elbrus has its own architecture using a "broad team." Therefore, they are less energy consuming and faster in potential. Of course, this potential still needs to be developed and used.
  • Warrior Hamilton 23 February 2020 15: 50 New
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    Again from the bomber will make Tu 104 (The Best Aircraft)
  • Arkon 23 February 2020 18: 42 New
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    In today's world, there are three undisputed leaders in the computer industry involved in processor architecture - these are Intel x86, ARM and MIPS. At the same time, the spheres are divided: ARM are mobile phones and tablets, MIPS are industrial computers, Intel are personal computers and laptops.

    Among the Russian processors, only the mentioned Elbrus can apply for the PC market


    Here it is only necessary to clarify that Elbrus has its own architecture - not RISC (ARM) and not CISC (x86). Therefore, we do not need to buy a license from Elbrus from ARM, which was recently dropped by the Chinese.
  • Brigadier 24 February 2020 09: 11 New
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    The conclusion is simple - dear shit! no recourse request
  • Turkish 25 May 2020 15: 49 New
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    Nobody invented or invented anything here! Forget it! To create your own processor you need dozens of years of development, experience and your own knowledge bases. Pentkovsky, when he studied, he studied other people's programming technologies. And on someone else’s bases and developments, he developed something of his own - this is by no means his! Intel was founded in 1968, they have made a bunch of processors since that time. Before Pentkovsky got to Intel, the line of processors 8086, 80186, 80286, 80386, and 80486 was released, when in the 90s computers called names 286, 386, 486. So these four series of processors ended with the fifth series of the processor called Pentium. From Greek - penta (πεντα) Five. And from the Latin ending -ium. It was added, for example, to the names of chemical elements, in a periodic table, which Mendeleev also did not invent, he composed in order the elements of a table of chemical elements already invented 50 years before it.
    So Penta -ium formed the name of the Fifth Pentium series.
    And in fact, if you study and use other people's technologies, and after that you create something of your own on this basis, then you must assume that this is not yours, and calling it your own does not make sense - this is theft.