Amsterdam refused to transfer to Moscow the case against the Russians on the collapse of MH17

The Netherlands will not hand over to Russia the case against three Russians accused by Dutch investigators of involvement in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing MH17 in 2014. It is reported by Radio Free Europe.

According to Dutch Minister of Justice Ferd Grapperhouse, Russia back in October last year sent a letter requesting the transfer of criminal proceedings against three Russians, but this letter was not taken into account.

The Ministry of Justice and Security replied that the transfer of criminal proceedings against the three Russian suspects by the Dutch authorities is not an option and was not taken into account. The government is fully confident in the independence and quality of Dutch justice

- he said.

According to Grapperhouse, the trial of the suspects is "important for establishing truth and justice." At the same time, he emphasized that Amsterdam is sure that three Russian citizens and one Ukrainian citizen involved in the MH17 disaster are hiding in Russia and Moscow is not going to extradite them.

As previously reported, Dutch investigators "identified" four people allegedly involved in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing, mentioning Girkin, Dubinsky, Pulatov and Harchenko.

None of them pressed the button themselves, but they worked closely together to deliver weapons, and therefore they can be considered suspected of being involved in the downing of MH17

- said the head of the National Prosecutor's Office of the Kingdom of the Netherlands Fred Westerbeke, adding that according to the criminal law of the Netherlands, even if a person was not present at the commission of the crime, but was involved in it, he is also guilty.

In addition, the Netherlands continues to claim that "Russia was involved in the crash, as it provided the Buk air defense system with which the plane was shot down."

At the same time, the Netherlands prosecutor’s office says that they have “all evidence of Moscow’s involvement”, but for some reason they refuse to provide these materials.

Comments

[CAT BAIYUN]

They smoke a lot there ... Yes, and a pickled product apparently ... Not so long ago they generally insisted on a tribunal in relation to Moscow.
Let's see if more interesting facts come up from the notorious German, who conducted the investigation on his own. But it seems like the Golandos refused to take into account the facts he established.
I am sure that sooner or later everything will come up. And it will be very unpleasant to smell for the whole de .. democratic community.

[novel66]

its, as you know, does not smell, it is democratic

[Mountain shooter]

And where were the Skripals? Do not want to investigate?

[Gene84]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

And where were the Skripals?

they’re probably dead already. Britain did not leave traces of witnesses alive.

Quote: KOT BYUN

Let's see if more interesting facts come up from the notorious German, who conducted the investigation on his own. But it seems like the Golandos refused to take into account the facts he established.

why do they need an independent investigation? they need to blame Russia. if they take into account an independent investigation, unpleasant moments may come up and they will have to admit that Ukraine shot down the plane.

[Tatyana]

Amsterdam refused to transfer to Moscow the case against the Russians on the collapse of MH17

Firstly, this is a flagrant violation of court proceedings in general!

Secondly. Well, everything is clear. On the one hand, the Dutch in their investigation "rasped" there in their investigative materials in full - so to speak, according to the precepts of the Minister of Propaganda of the Third Reich Goebbels! And now they are afraid that their provocative "work" under the arguments of the Russian Federation in court will be untenable. And no one in the world will have confidence in sentencing pre-appointed guilty parties.

Thirdly. It becomes clear that the "trial" is being implemented as another anti-Russian provocation, which is intended only for internal use for Western Europe and the United States to fool the local population against Russia.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Tatiana

Thirdly. It becomes clear that the "trial" is being implemented as another anti-Russian provocation,

A country or similarity called BENILUX will judge people from Russia who do not live there. Soon it will reach the point that the Republic of Comoros will begin to judge.

The United States has announced that it will cancel or refuse to issue visas to members of the International Criminal Court, which is investigating the actions of US troops in Afghanistan or other countries.
The United States never joined the ICC, where Attorney Fatou Bensouda approached judges in November 2017 for permission to open an investigation into alleged U.S. war crimes in Afghanistan.

That's how America protects its citizens. Good must always be learned.

[novel66]

consumables taken after disposal

[kot28.ru]

It is possible that the same place as their cat. Consumptions are of little interest to anyone. Those who are more capable of betraying.

[Trotil42]

Here on the site there was an interesting version about Skripals ... there’s nothing to investigate .. they really didn’t poison them ... if we assumed that Skripal, a double agent and Petrov and Boshirov arrived to contact him ... all this provocation was needed to show the world that Russia synthesizes and produces chemical warfare agents .. which undoubtedly happened ..

[Leshy1975]

Quote: CAT BAYUN

They smoke a lot there ... Yes, and a pickled product apparently ... Not so long ago they generally insisted on a tribunal in relation to Moscow.
Let's see if more interesting facts come up from the notorious German, who conducted the investigation on his own. But it seems like the Golandos refused to take into account the facts he established.
I am sure that sooner or later everything will come up. And it will be very unpleasant to smell for the whole de .. democratic community.

Over time, anything is possible. But doesn’t it seem strange to many that the Russian Federation generally raised such a question. In (source RBC) this sounds more clear:
In a letter, Grapperhouse said that in October 2019, Russian authorities turned to the Dutch with the request that the cases of three suspected Russians considered the court on Russian territory.

Which court? We, it seems, do not even admit, theoretically, a different fault, except for the Ukrainian one. What are we talking about, citizens? I already wrote earlier and again I was mercilessly minuscated that I was afraid, no matter how they would not give out, in exchange for my skins, not guilty, of the same Strelkova, because I do not believe in the guilt of the militias. And what? Ah, it turns out that we are ready to participate in the trial ourselves. And after this turning of power in one place, someone will assure me that I fantasize and this is not possible, because de constitution prohibits extradition! So, then we can close it if something happens and assume that everything went as it should ?!

PS About how many "wonderful" discoveries we have yet to learn after the change of the current government. What I really hope for. And then, the real guilty, in surrendering everything and everyone, will appear and answer before the law. And namely, in front of the Russian. In the meantime, while the greatness of Putin’s RF knows no boundaries. In the main borders of the TV.

[New Year day]

Quote: Leshy1975

Which court? We, it seems, do not even admit, theoretically, a different fault, except for the Ukrainian one.

everything is logical.

[Anatoly Anatoly]

Quote: Leshy1975

Which court? We, it seems, do not even admit, theoretically, a different fault, except for the Ukrainian one. What are we talking about, citizens?

On acquittal by the court. Is it that hard to understand?

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Anatoly Anatoly

Quote: Leshy1975

Which court? We, it seems, do not even admit, theoretically, a different fault, except for the Ukrainian one. What are we talking about, citizens?

On acquittal by the court. Is it that hard to understand?

And who is this excuse, except on a talk show at Solovyov’s notice? This is not difficult to understand? That this will only be an additional trump card, so as not to admit such an excuse and accuse Russia of biased court and concealment.

[mikh-korsakov]

Goblin! If Holland agreed to a trial in the Russian Federation, then Dutch investigators would have been obliged to provide the Russian court with all the investigative materials obtained during the investigation, because in Russia no investigation was conducted on Boeing. Otherwise, how can one judge by the size of the waist or what? Just the disagreement in judging them in Russia makes it possible for the Russian authorities to take a stand - you never know what you got there - we did not see this, although we wanted to read it, so we are in vain for your investigation, we do not believe him. and since you don’t want to provide, it means they probably cheated. Therefore, the step is at least of little significance, because it will be cut off, but it is not useless.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Leshy1975

PS About how many "wonderful" discoveries we have yet to learn ...

For possible discoveries:

The court in the case of the destruction of the Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine on July 17, 2014 may summon the director and political strategist Sergei Kurginyan for questioning. Because three days before the tragedy, he said: “Our talented, even brilliant electronics engineers will, of course, fix it, and I think they have already repaired the Buk installation seized from the Ukrainian Bandera bandits (I’m not talking about the Ukrainian people). I just know genius electronics engineers who they flew there as representatives of civil society to help the fraternal people. And it may even turn out that there are several installations! "
Then Kurginyan swore that his words did not have the slightest meaning, because everyone already knew about the air defense system, but these excuses looked pathetic. It is possible that, with the consent of the Kremlin, he will explain that there was a provocation: to shoot down the plane and provoke the accusation of Vladimir Putin. Who was cunningly framed by former DPR Defense Minister Igor Strelkov, who is among the accused. A monarchist, a "fascist", an agent of the "black international" and generally a bad person whom the witness exposed even then. Further, any options are possible, including the extradition of the accused to the court or his sudden suicide with three bullets in the back of the head.

© http://www.apn-spb.ru/news/article31488.htm

[Leshy1975]

Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke

Quote: Leshy1975

PS About how many "wonderful" discoveries we have yet to learn ...

For possible discoveries:

The court in the case of the destruction of the Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine on July 17, 2014 may summon the director and political strategist Sergei Kurginyan for questioning. Because three days before the tragedy, he said: “Our talented, even brilliant electronics engineers will, of course, fix it, and I think they have already repaired the Buk installation seized from the Ukrainian Bandera bandits (I’m not talking about the Ukrainian people). I just know genius electronics engineers who they flew there as representatives of civil society to help the fraternal people. And it may even turn out that there are several installations! "
Then Kurginyan swore that his words did not have the slightest meaning, because everyone already knew about the air defense system, but these excuses looked pathetic. It is possible that, with the consent of the Kremlin, he will explain that there was a provocation: to shoot down the plane and provoke the accusation of Vladimir Putin. Who was cunningly framed by former DPR Defense Minister Igor Strelkov, who is among the accused. A monarchist, a "fascist", an agent of the "black international" and generally a bad person whom the witness exposed even then. Further, any options are possible, including the extradition of the accused to the court or his sudden suicide with three bullets in the back of the head.

© http://www.apn-spb.ru/news/article31488.htm

Kurginyan, yes, that one. I remember how he drowned Strelkov. And about this incident, with the seizure of the air defense base and the repair of air defense systems, I remember hints on TV then. For Strelkova, worried. I consider him a man of honor, this is my personal opinion.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: KOT BYUN

They smoke a lot there ..

In order to follow the instructions of the curator. no need to smoke.

Quote: KOT BYUN

I am sure that sooner or later everything will come up.

I’m sure nothing will come up. Everything will be buried under the vulture - secretly.

[Tank jacket]

In response, the following territories will have to be accepted into the Eurasian Union:
Aruba
Curacao
Sint Maarten - South of St. Martin
Caribbean Netherlands
Bonaire (Bonaire)
St. Eustatius
Saba
"They fought, he says, so give them here" (c)

[sergo1914]

according to Dutch criminal law, even if a person was not present at the commission of a crime, but was involved in it, he is also guilty

Seriously? And let's talk about the Netherlands and the Third Reich in this context. Not all in Nuremberg fit on a bench?

[helmi8]

Quote: sergo1914

according to Dutch criminal law, even if a person was not present at the commission of a crime, but was involved in it, he is also guilty

Seriously? Let's talk about the Netherlands

I agree with you completely, because the flight was from Amsterdam. According to their logic, the Netherlands is on a par with all the accused by their "impartial trial"

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: sergo1914

Seriously?

But is it not so in Russia? Organizers and accomplices are not planted together with direct performers?

[sergo1914]

Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich

Quote: sergo1914

Seriously?

But is it not so in Russia? Organizers and accomplices are not planted together with direct performers?

Sometimes it happens. Do you think that seated high-ranking bribe-takers did not bring higher?

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

This is clearly not an experience that should be considered a model of justice.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: sergo1914

And let's talk about the Netherlands and the Third Reich in this context. Not all in Nuremberg fit on a bench?

This would not hurt to do in the first place.

[Lamata]

So, and in all where Milosevic was killed?

[kot28.ru]

And most importantly, for what, and how true were the evidence of the prosecutors!

[Lamata]

I read. sketchy protocols of the tribunal - dregs.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Lamata

So, and in all where Milosevic was killed?

Something here resembles the People's Court of the Third Reich.
As Dr. Frank said, “Under National Socialism there is no independence of the law. When making any decision, ask yourself:“ What would the Fuehrer do in my place? “This is how decisions are made so far.

[Lamata]

they will show the theater of justice for a long time

[Gray brother]

Well, all the same, you will have to provide evidence, and if the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation finds them sufficient, then he will give out the suspects, of course.
What is the problem, I don’t understand.

[New Year day]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, you still have to provide evidence

The most balanced answer

[Andrey Shch]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, all the same, you will have to provide evidence, and if the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation finds them sufficient, then he will give out the suspects, of course.
What is the problem, I don’t understand.

Will not give out. "Citizens of the Russian Federation who have committed a crime on the territory of a foreign state are not subject to extradition to this state" (Article 13 of the Criminal Code). And even more so for another

[Gray brother]

Quote: Andrey Sch

Will not give out. "Citizens of the Russian Federation who have committed a crime on the territory of a foreign state are not subject to extradition to this state"

Well, there are all kinds of extradition treaties, for something their desire to obtain these persons is based, but if not, then it's just an excuse cheap to end the investigation.

[Andrey Shch]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Andrey Sch

Will not give out. "Citizens of the Russian Federation who have committed a crime on the territory of a foreign state are not subject to extradition to this state"

Well, there are all kinds of extradition treaties, for something their desire to obtain these persons is based, but if not, then it's just an excuse cheap to end the investigation.

It is perfect as an excuse. Only they will most likely go to the end, they will conduct a trial and convict in absentia, and then they will poke us with this decision (sentence) everywhere.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Andrey Sch

not subject to extradition to this state"(Article 13 of the Criminal Code)

And to another?

[Andrey Shch]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Andrey Sch

not subject to extradition to this state"(Article 13 of the Criminal Code)

And to another?

Already wrote above. Isn't that obvious? They do not give out (according to the law) even where they committed. Why should I give it to outsiders?

[Gray brother]

Quote: Andrey Sch

Isn't it obvious?

So people without apartments remain.
But it’s better to turn to the Constitution, I read it just now and it is normally written there:
"A citizen of the Russian Federation cannot be expelled from the Russian Federation or extradited to another state." Article 61, however.

[Andrey Shch]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Andrey Sch

Isn't it obvious?

So people without apartments remain.
But it’s better to turn to the Constitution, I read it just now and it is normally written there:
"A citizen of the Russian Federation cannot be expelled from the Russian Federation or extradited to another state." Article 61, however.

So it was necessary to read from the very beginning. What was it about? Not about the extradition of any persons whatsoever, but about the perpetrators of the crime. According to the Dutch. So I gave a link to the Criminal Code. First he writes, blurs, and then reads, and even tries to learn something.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Andrey Sch

and about the perpetrators of the crime.

But there is no difference - both those and other citizens of the Russian Federation.

Quote: Andrey Sch

and even trying to learn something.

Why should I teach you? Just well-written documents do not allow discrepancies, especially an article of the Criminal Code, and I read it and found a jamb.

[Andrey Shch]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: Andrey Sch

and about the perpetrators of the crime.

But there is no difference - both those and other citizens of the Russian Federation.

Quote: Andrey Sch

and even trying to learn something.

Why should I teach you? Just well-written documents do not allow discrepancies, especially an article of the Criminal Code, and I read it and found a jamb.

But what's the jamb then? The Criminal Code is a criminal law subject, and the Constitution is a more general document (Basic Law). You just for information that in jurisprudence in the presence of two or more laws regulating a particular topic, a special, more "narrow" law is applied. And the Criminal Code in relation to the Constitution is such, as well as other laws. You know, you, of course, are free to express your point of view on any topic, but if you start to argue, then it's good to learn something on the topic. If you just want to leave the last word for yourself, then for God's sake, write whatever you want.

[Gray brother]

Quote: Andrey Sch

Yes, what is the cant then?

The fact that you can read in different ways. It is written in the Constitution that no state can be extradited at all, and in the Criminal Code it is written that only to the one in which the crime was committed - that means the rest is possible because what is not prohibited is allowed.

In the context of the requirements for Russia, this can be considered so that the crime was committed in Ukraine, and Dutch drug addicts demand extradition.
According to the Criminal Code, it turns out you can issue, but according to the Constitution, no.

I don’t know about "narrow laws", but I always thought that the whole movement is on the rise and the constitutional mechanism is included in the last turn.
Those. first, they work out less significant legislative norms, and then what happened is checked for compliance with constitutional norms.
And in order for these constitutional norms to work, the Dutch need to submit a request for extradition with proof, otherwise all this bureaucracy will not reach the articles of the Constitution)))

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Andrey Sch

Will not give out. "Citizens of the Russian Federation who have committed a crime on the territory of a foreign state are not subject to extradition to this state" (Article 13 of the Criminal Code).

This is a different question, first the evidence, and then the answer. No evidence, no conversation. What is the issue here.

[ccsr]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, all the same, you will have to provide evidence, and if the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation finds them sufficient, then he will give out the suspects, of course.
What is the problem, I don’t understand.

The fact that the whole thing will fall apart due to the lack of evidence about the guilt of our citizens. And this will lead to a new investigation, because you still need to hang on someone what was done by people who were familiar with this plane.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: ccsr

And this will lead to a new investigation, because you still need to hang on someone what was done by people who were familiar with this plane.

And this "bodyaga" will last again five years, until a new "bodyaga" appears.

[figwam]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, you still have to provide evidence

They were not and never will be, computer graphics of the BUK movement, "left" rocket, etc. they only have lies covered by lies.

[Lamata]

according to the constitution of the Russian Federation does not issue its citizens.

[rotmistr60]

This letter was not taken into account.

How many facts obtained in the course of its own investigation by the Russian side (bench detonation of the Buk missile, identification of the missile by number, etc.) and indicating the involvement of Ukraine in this tragedy and the politicization of the investigation by the Netherlands were not taken into account.

[New Year day]

Quote: rotmistr60

bench detonation of a Buk missile,

Russia itself disavows this blast, as it does not correspond to the true parameters of the explosion

[reservist]

but where about this can be read in more detail?
What miscalculated during a full-scale experiment with an explosion?

[New Year day]

Quote: reservist

but where about this can be read in more detail?

after 17-00 I’ll throw it off, now I’m writing from the phone

[New Year day]

Quote: reservist

What miscalculated during a full-scale experiment with an explosion?

* Strange figures about the downed Boeing: why Almaz-Antey could not refute the Dutch version * Author Lukashevich
Minuscules to read first if truth is not important
and more
* Truth and fiction about the downed Boeing. What became clear 5 years after the disaster *
While no one could refute what was written

[reservist]

Quote: Silvestr

Russia itself disavows this blast, as it does not correspond to the true parameters of the explosion

Did "Russia itself" disavow the experiment of the Almaz-Antey concern?

Quote: Silvestr

Strange figures about the downed Boeing: why Almaz-Antey could not refute the Dutch version * By Lukashevich

I read the signature of the article - Vadim Lukashevich, Forbes Contributor

Let's suppose that V. Lukashevich is even really an "aviaexpert", but what does this contributor (as I understand it, a columnist in a newspaper / magazine) have to do with the Almaz-Antey concern?
Or maybe the Russian Defense Ministry or someone else gave Mr. Lukashevich of Forbes the authority to make any statements on behalf of the official authorities of the Russian Federation?

Quote: Silvestr

While no one could refute what was written

did someone try?
here for me it is the opinion of the pros on this issue that is interesting ... but then suddenly for them contributor Lukashevich is the same as "the elusive cowboy Joe" ...

PS I read the article ... even when it was printed ...
PPS familiar PVO'shnik says that a more or less prepared crew will recognize the mark of a civilian passenger on the radar ...

[New Year day]

Quote: reservist

the prepared calculation marks the civil passenger on the radar ...

So on the website of the air defense system there are many, let's defeat Lukashevich! I am for!

Quote: reservist

did someone try?
here for me it is interesting precisely the opinion of the pros on this issue ...

[reservist]

Quote: Silvestr

So on the website of the air defense system there are many

Are you talking about someone specifically?
I've never been an air defense officer ...

[Crystal of Truth]

Leontiev with a kilometer MIG is also not called for some reason

[Sergst]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, all the same, you will have to provide evidence, and if the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation finds them sufficient, then he will give out the suspects, of course.
What is the problem, I don’t understand.

Russia does not give out its citizens. And these are not emotions, but a legal fact

[ccsr]

Quote: Sergst

Russia does not give out its citizens. And these are not emotions, but a legal fact

Those. you want to say that our citizen will not receive a punishment, perhaps even more severe than in the country where he committed the crime with evidence? It doesn’t happen - he will either be condemned with us, or if he obtained citizenship after committing a crime and took refuge with us, he will be extradited to the country where he came from.

[anjey]

The blame for the apparatus of power of Poroshenko.
He himself is the chief and the black cardinal of this tragedy ...

[Andrey.AN]

A legitimate court will not care, empty.

[Vladimir61]

And with Tzemakh, whom did the SBU accuse the chief executor of that span? They burned themselves in the evidence, which is why he did not get on the list ... maybe on these, we’ll hang in absentia.

[New Year day]

Quote: Vladimir61

And with Tzemakh, whom did the SBU accuse the chief executor of that span? Burnt in evidence

I think that just in this case a long game is going on: they will demand it as a witness or accused, they will apply for extradition to Russia (Tsemakh has a Russian passport), and his place of residence is under the control of Russia.
And here the pitchforks: they will extradite - the principle of not extraditing a citizen is violated, they will extradite - the charge of blocking the court and sheltering the suspect, which in their opinion is Russia's indirect participation in the downing

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

I think that just in this case a long game is going on: they will demand it as a witness or accused, they will turn to Russia for extradition

So, the documents of the case must first be presented in order to decide whether to give it out or not - it could not be otherwise, well, unless it is some kind of cunning exchange of special services agents.

[New Year day]

Quote: ccsr

So the documents of the case must first be presented

so in court they will show who starts the game with trump cards?

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

so in court they will show who starts the game with trump cards?

In cases involving the attraction of foreign citizens, this does not happen - before issuing a citizen, it is necessary to thoroughly study the case, to what extent it complies with our legislation and whether all evidence is genuine.

[New Year day]

Quote: ccsr

In cases involving the attraction of foreign citizens this does not happen.

it happens - 1 suspect participates in court with a group of lawyers, including 1 lawyer from Russia

[Den717]

This hurdy-gurdy threatens to survive eternity. According to the constitution, Russia does not extradite its citizens. Complicity in a crime is also punishable in Russia. Therefore, if it is necessary to investigate in order to find the real perpetrators, it is necessary to send reasoned materials to Russia for interrogating the suspects by Russian investigators on the issues raised by the Dutch prosecutor's office. And it is better to involve the Russian side in the investigation with 100% access to all case materials. The same thing that is happening in this JIT now under the slogan "highley like", most likely, will not be assessed by our prosecutor's office as a sufficient basis for bringing Russian citizens to any responsibility. The topic will be procrastinating for a long time, but we are unlikely to come to a logical end. Holland will blame Russia, we, in turn, will "roll out" the Dutch for their lack of desire to conduct an adequate investigation. In the meantime, litigation will periodically erupt in the victim countries with an attempt to sue for compensation .... It will be long and not very successful. It is hard to imagine where all this can stop. But obviously Russia will not follow the path of Libya and will not recognize the results of the trial.

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

it is better to involve the Russian side in the investigation with 100% tolerances in all the materials of the case

What does Russia have to do with this plane? Non-Russians died, fell on the territory of Ukraine, Malaysian aircraft, Russia did not participate in the armed conflict.
What is the legal justification?

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

What does Russia have to do with this plane?

Firstly, in the case is a product made at Russian factories. In the interests of business, representatives of companies whose products were involved in the crash are always involved. The United States and Malaysia should have been on the same basis. The whole group was created by amateur proctologists, and with predetermined goals that do not coincide with the righteous. That is why doubts arise in their work. I mean the correct work, in order to search for the really guilty. How else? Our court on foreign materials will not make a decision.

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

Firstly..

Holland obtained the right to conduct a technical investigation under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) from Ukraine in accordance with clause 5.1 of Appendix 13 “Investigation of Accidents and Incidents” to the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation. The investigation was conducted by a specialized body - the Safety Board (Dutch Safety Board, DSB) with the involvement of experts and various organizations from the Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, the UK, the USA, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Indonesia. The ICAO and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) also participated in the DSB investigation.
Russia's involvement in DSB and JIT investigations was determined by its extraneous status. The dead plane was produced in the United States, belonged to Malaysia, was controlled by a Malaysian crew, flew from the Netherlands, followed to Malaysia, there were no Russian citizens on board, it did not enter Russian airspace, it did not enter under the control of Russian dispatchers, it fell into Ukraine. Legally, Russia has nothing to do with the disaster of flight MH17. In a DSB technical investigation, the status of Russia is defined by Appendix 13 to the ICAO Convention as “any other state that has information relating to the investigation” provided “upon request”.

Quote: Den717

How else?

No, you can send all international authorities to the toilet and incinerate everyone with anger and emotions. That's just emotions and only

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

you can send all international authorities to the toilet and incinerate with anger and emotions of all. That's just emotions and only

Do you understand that all this SSG is assembled and engaged for political purposes? They push their interest, we - our. The entire investigation is initially conducted with violations. This is also understandable. Therefore, we will continue to butt them for our interest. That is why the priority of domestic law over a third party is introduced into the constitution. It is to simplify a process like this. The requirement to extradite Russians to a foreign state is contrary to the constitution, which means that they will be fulfilled regardless of Russia's participation in international treaties and agreements. No need to incinerate anyone. The United States does not incinerate, but simply ignores. One must do the same.

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

Is this SSG collected and biased for political purposes?

Do you have a complaint about these international requirements? The group is assembled about the death of the plane and people

Quote: Den717

The requirement to extradite Russians to a foreign state is contrary to the constitution

who was asked to issue?

Quote: Den717

No need to incinerate anyone. The United States does not incinerate, but simply ignores. One must do the same.

Who's stopping this?
There is anger and indignation, but there are international requirements and laws. Is it possible to get out of all international laws and organizations?
I do not emotional, but try to soberly reason and evaluate information
Read comments, emotions and more. Where are the links to international laws and law? To bomb all and destroy all or all fools, and we are the smartest?

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

Do you have a complaint about these international requirements?

I have. And you?

Quote: Silvestr

who was asked to issue?

The Dutch have read our documents too, so for now it’s somehow like this:
“... As Westerbeke pointed out, the Netherlands has four arrest warrants for all the defendants, they will be put on the national and international wanted list. However, Amsterdam will not ask for the extradition of these people, since the Russian and Ukrainian Constitutions prohibit the extradition of citizens of these countries. of this, Westerbeke said, Amsterdam will send a formal request to Russia, in which it will ask Moscow to hand over summons to the suspects demanding them to appear in court in The Hague .... "
But the government is changing, the Yeltsins are possible in governing the country, so you need to have "safety bugs".
I don’t understand your line, what do you want to convince me of? Our guilt? In the inability or unwillingness of the leadership to defend the interests of the country? I am not a lawyer, but I think that the country will find ways to "snap back" without losing face. If you have any practical suggestions, send them to the Prosecutor General's Office. Maybe they'll even say thank you ...

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

I'm not a lawyer

I also

Quote: Den717

the country will find ways to "snap back" without losing face

We will see

Quote: Den717

I don’t understand something of your line

The line is simple - who shot down? And without emotion and tear vest on the chest. Do you really need Yes, for me. And without cuts. Whatever she is.
Above, my colleague gave links to work on this issue. Almaz-Antey could not refute their outcome. Do you trust Antei?
Or do you trust Konashenkov with his attack aircraft or Leontiev with his space imagery, from which even Ernst disowned?

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

do you trust Konashenkov with his attack aircraft or Leontiev

This is forgivable, without case materials, they can only put forward versions. There is nothing strange. You, I see, are closer to Mr. Lukashevich, who has been criticized more than once for his "expert" assessments. Well ... As Comrade Marx said, practice is the criterion of truth.

Quote: Silvestr

Do you trust Antei?

What's wrong with Antaeus? I will not touch on any geometry from Lukashenka. The question is simpler: whose rocket? They showed fragments with numbers, received information from the company where they sent it. Where is the revision of the documents for the further movement of this rocket, where are the documents for its installation on the complex, the shooting report, etc. I have not heard that elementary things such as checking the presence of missiles at the installations, what, how much, where they are, were carried out. Which unit was brought into the conflict zone, what it had, etc. etc.? Where is the dispatcher, who gave the command to change course, who knocked out the control station, who canceled the order to "close the skies"? The JIT did not ask these questions to anyone. Why? What will Mr. Lukashevich tell us? It is possible to practice trajectory calculations for more than a decade, and deviations of the results of field experiments are quite possible, because, in addition to the inherent algorithms, a lot of random factors affect the rocket flight and the moment of warhead detonation. But the dispatcher, for example, a specific individual where? It has been repeatedly said that the entire procedure in the event of a flight accident was initially violated. Why? For what purpose? Even the fragments of the bodies were not collected ... I'm not talking about the layout of the plane ..

Quote: Silvestr

Do you really need Yes, for me. And without cuts.

I need the truth too. Therefore, the questions arise, why are they not looking for it? There is a saying that the thickness of the report prevents it from being read. I'm afraid the situation is similar here. They are gathering up a wagon of waste paper, the most complicated calculations and other papers, so that no one has a desire to push this case into civil society "without cuts". Therefore, I do not strongly trust European justice, especially in disputes between Europe and non-Europe.

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

This is excusable, without case materials they can only put forward versions.

they confirmed their versions with radar data and photography. Do you want to say that these are not methods of objective control?

Quote: Den717

closer is Mr. Lukashevich, who has been criticized more than once for his "expert" assessments.

great! But for me, Lukashevich’s drum, it’s only the fallacy of Antei’s conclusions that Antei himself admitted, accusing Holland of incorrectly set experiment parameters.

Quote: Den717

And what is wrong with Antei?

incorrect experiment parameters

Quote: Den717

whose rocket?

wait, see

Quote: Den717

who canceled the order to "close the sky"?

and who closed it? Just the fault of Ukraine in the absence thereof. But the question is, why did Russia close it the day before and why did the dispatcher send the plane to a closed area? The Federal Air Transport Agency did not answer this question

Quote: Den717

Therefore, questions arise, why is it not being sought?

why not looking? Truth is born in a dispute

Quote: Den717

I do not trust European justice very much

me too, but Konashenkov and Leontiev do not cause trust

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

and who closed it? Just the fault of Ukraine in the absence thereof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8gVWyJHUrU
Look, there is such a thing ... 11-40 is just about closing the sky. There is something to think about ...

[New Year day]

Quote: Den717

Look, there is such a thing.

looked and what?
And what about the confessions of the defector about the attack aircraft who shot down the Boeing and about the pilot Voloshin, who said "the wrong one was shot down"?
Words, words, where is your sweetness?

[Den717]

Quote: Silvestr

But what about the defector’s confessions about the attack aircraft,

It’s already difficult to interrogate him in court ... But I see that Lukashevich is closer to you. He bluntly said - Russia shot down ... One thing is not clear, why?

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

Russia's involvement in DSB and JIT investigations was determined by its extraneous status.

How can Russia have an "outside status" if the investigation points to the weapons and officials of the RF Armed Forces who allegedly served in the Air Defense Forces?

Quote: Silvestr

Legally, Russia has nothing to do with the disaster of flight MH17.

How does it not, if we are charged, that it was our calculation that shot down the plane?

Quote: Silvestr

No, you can send all international authorities to the toilet and incinerate everyone with anger and emotions.

All that we did not subscribe to, or those who do not give us any rights, and that will be right.

Quote: Silvestr

That's just emotions and only

These are not emotions, but normal practice, which the US adheres to by the way.

[New Year day]

Quote: ccsr

How can Russia have an "outside status" if the investigation points to the weapons and officials of the RF Armed Forces who allegedly served in the Air Defense Forces?

you understood yourself. what did you write? "Foreign status" and "suspects"? How can the latter participate in the investigation? Even purely hypothetical?

Quote: ccsr

How does it not, if we are charged, that it was our calculation that shot down the plane?

here and wait for their arguments

Quote: ccsr

All that we did not subscribe to, or those who do not give us any rights, and that will be right.

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)
Safety Board (Dutch Safety Board, DSB)
European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
It seems to be participating in them

Quote: ccsr

These are not emotions, but normal practice, which the US adheres to by the way.

Where are the links to international aviation organizations? Their decisions?

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

"Foreign status" and "suspects"? How can the latter participate in the investigation? Even purely hypothetical?

The citizens of Russia are suspected, and our state is obliged to protect its citizens - that's why we should participate, at least at the level of the provision of lawyer services.

Quote: Silvestr

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)
Safety Board (Dutch Safety Board, DSB)
European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
It seems to be participating in them

We participate in them, but we did not subscribe to the execution of the decisions of the Dutch court.

Quote: Silvestr

Where are the links to international aviation organizations? Their decisions?

Do not translate arrows with judicial actions of another country, to our participation in international aviation organizations - these are two big differences.

[New Year day]

Quote: ccsr

The citizens of Russia are suspected, and our state is obliged to protect its citizens - that's why we should participate, at least at the level of the provision of lawyer services.

it's already done

Quote: ccsr

but we did not subscribe to the execution of the decisions of the Dutch court.

so even no trial

Quote: ccsr

Do not translate arrows with judicial actions of another country, to our participation in international aviation organizations - these are two big differences.

there’s nowhere to translate arrows because:
1. The investigation is based on international aviation organizations:
International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)
Safety Board (Dutch Safety Board, DSB)
European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)
2. There is no judicial action in another country because there is no court. It only starts on March 9th

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

investigation is based on international aviation organizations

Nothing of the kind, because, in fact, the investigation and trial could be carried out by Ukraine, Malaysia and the Netherlands. There is no independent aviation court - at least I have not heard of this.

[New Year day]

Quote: ccsr

investigation and trial could be conducted by Ukraine, Malaysia and the Netherlands.

back to the roots:
"The Netherlands received the right to conduct a technical investigation under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) from Ukraine in accordance with clause 5.1 of Annex 13" Investigation of Aircraft Accidents and Incidents "to the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation. The investigation was conducted by a specialized body - the Dutch Safety Board , DSB) involving experts and various organizations from the Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, UK, USA, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Indonesia ICAO and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) also participated in the DSB investigation. "

[ccsr]

Quote: Silvestr

"The Netherlands received the right to conduct technical investigations under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) from Ukraine

Why didn't Malaysia get it, especially since it was their plane and most of the passengers were from this country? How did this "source" not suit Ukraine?

Quote: Silvestr

with the involvement of experts and various organizations from the Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, the UK, USA, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Indonesia.

The involvement of experts does not mean that they can decide instead of judges - this is obvious and does not mean anything.

[Sergst]

Quote: Gray Brother

Well, there are all kinds of extradition treaties, for something their desire to obtain these persons is based, but if not, then it's just an excuse cheap to end the investigation.

Nobody tried to get Russian citizens, it was only about a Ukrainian citizen

[Andrea]

As far as I know, you can only judge the accused, but not the suspects. And who said that the court can establish the truth?
In this particular case, the court can only legitimize the lawlessness, if we take into account how the investigation was conducted from the very beginning. How the Ukrainian side intensified the shelling, how the Dutch got to the crash site for a month, how they prevented the Malaysians from getting to Donbass and they had to carry out a special operation to pick up the black boxes "which, by the way, took them only a few days.

[Vyacheslav Viktorovich]

Quote: Andrea

As far as I know, you can only judge the accused, but not suspected.

The four have recently been formally charged by the Dutch prosecutor.

[Pavel73]

I'm sorry, what? "Didn't shoot, but guilty"? That is, who shot, they are not going to find out at all? One of two things: either they are preparing a surprise, or they are just impudent and hypocrites.

[Ros 56]

At this time, the Dutch your way through the forest on foot erotic journey. Drugs should be consumed less.

[Piramidon]

the Dutch prosecutor's office claims that they have "all the evidence of Moscow's involvement," but for some reason they refuse to provide these materials.

Postmen Pechkiny, damn it.

[Jcvai]

Hmm. Considering that concealment is tantamount to complicity, if it is not possible to successfully "rewrite history", as they are now working hard on the Second World War, they risk it.
Purely political, it is possible to organize a counter-court based on only facts, at the same time dropping into the list of defendants all those involved in the intentional concealment of evidence.
... as a result, it may turn out to be very interesting: the direct perpetrators of the launch were not identified, but the accomplices were clearly identified, to whom the deadlines were issued.

[Prjanik]

I wonder what they are going to use to establish "truth and justice", again fake pictures with "Buk" from Facebook and recordings of conversations that have nothing to do with Boeing? Well, we will be the apotheosis, since the suspects did not appear in court, we will automatically blame them.
After the "white helmets" receive the "Oscar" I am not surprised by any lies and hypocrisy.

[Retvizan 8]

And where on the slides is the photo of Parashenka?

[tihonmarine]

The government is fully confident in the independence and quality of Dutch justice

Netherlands justice, the Hague tribune, the ICC and who are the prosecutors and judges.

[iouris]

It looks like a principle widely known in narrow circles: to figure it out "as it should" and punish (attract) just anyone.
By the way, it is not politically correct: there are no Afro-Russians among the "attracted".

[kot28.ru]

Asians are also absent roosters gay, no LGBT women

[Sergst]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: Sergst

Russia does not give out its citizens. And these are not emotions, but a legal fact

Those. you want to say that our citizen will not receive a punishment, perhaps even more severe than in the country where he committed the crime with evidence? It doesn’t happen - he will either be condemned with us, or if he obtained citizenship after committing a crime and took refuge with us, he will be extradited to the country where he came from.

"does not give out" and "does not condemn" are two different statements. I wrote only about "does not give out". No more. Of course, he will condemn him if he finds the corpus delicti and its evidence. It is clear that “high-like-likes” in our country is not evidence in court.

[askort154]

"... Dutch investigators "identified" four people allegedly involved in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing, mentioning Girkin, Dubinsky, Pulatov and Kharchenko. "

The list does not include the main "witness" - Obama.
A few hours after the crash, he said - "we have satellite data that the plane was shot down by Russia, but they are classified."
And for 5 years now, the "commission" has been trying to prove it.

[Servisinzhener]

None of them pressed the button themselves

And who was stinging? Someone, after all, was sitting in JMA, ROM, SOC and KP, and these are two dozen people.

[Operator]

The Netherlands admitted that the Boeing was shot down by a numbered rocket delivered to Ukraine before 1992 - because it did not refute the corresponding data of the rocket manufacturer sent to the investigation.

Then why all these Dutch antics and jumps with the alleged ferrying of the Russian Buk air defense system with full ammunition to Donbass - such as the ammunition was later returned to Russia, and the air defense system was loaded with local missiles?

[rocket757]

Back in October of last year, Russia sent a letter requesting the transfer of criminal proceedings against three Russians, but this letter was not taken into account.

Logically, do not take into account all their attempts ....

[Zaurbek]

Everything turns into a court for the sake of the court .... then we won’t give it, it's secret .... and then they still want to execute their decision.

[g1washntwn]

The same Western rake about "we have installed, but will not show anyone." The task is to concoct an accusation. This means that no materials will be transferred. How the court will be conducted and what will be shown to the court will also not be shown to anyone. And if they try to pull the ears to indirect participation, then the direct has not been proven - fake. And since direct participation is the initial fake, then attempt number two is just a mine with a bad game and convulsions of the organizers of this bloody show.

[Prisoner]

Here are the Dutch geese! Echo, echo, but to hell! Lying stoned dogs!

[Tavi]

reminded a joke:
Vasily Ivanovich went with Petka on a business trip abroad. Parted
in different directions. Meet after three months. Vasily Ivanovich
hungry, ragged, and Petka all in gold.
VI Where did you get it.
P - I go to the club, and there they play cards in a point. At first, that card did not go.
And then one says, "I have a point," and I show him, show him, and he
"Gentlemen believe the word"
And here I have a map as it flooded ....

[kventinasd]

It is necessary to institute proceedings against the Dutch chickens, but the matter cannot be transferred to them.

[Karacupa]

Again, five years of chatter ..There are the essence of Russia’s deflation not to remove!
Something Skripal forgot)))
As one analyst at AiF said ... Sanctions for Russia are forever!
So the men are calm, only calm ..