Civil war in Russia: lessons learned and unlearned


The approaching anniversary of the end of one of the most tragic events in stories of our Fatherland - the Civil War, which has actually erupted since 1917, makes us think about what are the most important conclusions from those formidable days that our society has been able to draw for the century allotted to it and which lessons, alas, have remained unlearned. As you know, a misunderstanding of our own past may well lead to a repetition of it, but each of us would like the least like that ...


First of all, it is necessary to recognize that we began to approach literally most recently to a more or less objective and balanced understanding of events and people of that extremely ambiguous period. It so happened that for a very long time they were interpreted as extremely one-sided and tendentious. In the days of the Soviet Union, for obvious reasons, the representatives of the Red Camp were considered to be the heroes and the “right side” of the Civil. Their opponents exhibited the embodiment of evil and all kinds of vices. Sometimes in an exaggerated demonized form, sometimes in a frankly caricature. What to do, winners always write history ...

Later, after 1991, a distinct “skew” quite naturally went in the opposite direction. In the country that exploded along the path of “de-communization”, “commissars in dusty helmets” began to be exhibited almost by the devil of hell, and representatives of the white movement were portrayed as exclusively noble and exalted guardians of Russia and martyrs for her. Fortunately, now the desire to think and comprehend the great turmoil of the twentieth century in all its diversity and complexity began to take over. Although on some forums in Runet, no, no, and stumble upon the collisions of the “white” with the “red”, where commentators are clearly not averse to moving from words to chopping with sabers and shooting from Nagans ...

This, perhaps, is the first and one of the most important lessons: in such an intricate issue as the armed conflict of people of the same blood, of the same faith, of one land, one can never “smear” one or the other side (by the way, in our Civil not two at all, but much more) with any one paint, anathematizing some and almost deifying others. That was the main tragedy of the Russian fratricidal warfare that it brought together people, the vast majority of whom earnestly and sincerely wished the highest good to their land and their people. They just saw this very good in completely different ways. And they were ready for their beliefs not only to die, but, alas, to kill.

Another important lesson, which I want to believe, has been firmly learned: any civil war is beneficial primarily to the external enemies of the state, of which Russia had a great many hundred years ago. Today, however, their number has not decreased at all. In the early twentieth century, the British and the Americans and their then allies unequivocally benefited from the Russian unrest. And the point here is not only in the regiments of the interventionists who stomped our land then, but in the collapse of the great empire, which had to be revived in blood and torment. This is what we should always remember: arranging a “showdown” in our own house, we set it on fire for the joy of those who slept and saw that our Motherland was on fire, but could not arrange it on our own. The geopolitical defeat of the country that allowed it within its own borders always and inevitably serves as the price of civil war.

And perhaps the main conclusion and lesson: in a civil war, no matter how noble and fair goals it may be fought, there are no winners. Imagine this is exactly so. Only the vanquished remain - with terrible scars on their bodies and souls, which inherit a country devastated to the ground, a land saturated with the blood of compatriots and hatred, taking its poisonous roots for many generations. Factories and roads can be rebuilt, fields sown again ... But what to do with families where the son was forced to confront his father, and his brother - to go with weapons on brother? In our country, the terrible consequences of all this began to be smoothed out, perhaps, only during the years of World War II, which united in a common hatred of foreign invaders and yesterday's whites, and reds, and party, and non-partisans.

It is this lesson that should finally be learned by all those who today are no, no, and they are trying to call Russia for a revolution and, in fact, a civil conflict as a means of solving certain problems. Russia has survived many disasters that have fallen on its mighty shoulders for centuries, and is able to withstand even the most difficult trials. However, unrest, schism, fratricide should not be repeated on our land ever.
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  1. Far B 12 February 2020 06: 34 New
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    In the early twentieth century, the British and the Americans and their then allies unequivocally benefited from the Russian unrest.
    Oh, what a controversial thesis! And what was their clear win at the end of the Civil War ?!
    The geopolitical defeat of the country that allowed it within its borders always and inevitably serves as the reckoning for a civil war.
    How much pathos in this phrase has merged! And what is the geopolitical defeat, again, let me ask, at the time of the end of the Civil War?
    It is this lesson that should finally be learned by all those who today are no, no, and they are trying to call Russia to revolution
    This lesson should finally be learned not by those who call for a revolution, but by those who create a pre-revolutionary situation in the country, who do not give a damn about the opinion of their people and their aspirations. For the cause of revolutions and the Civil War in the last century were precisely those who held power, and the revolutionaries themselves were only the result of the ill-conceived actions of officials of all stripes in general and the anointed man himself with his household, in particular.
    In general, it seems that the author calls for "show understanding" and endure, endure, endure ...
    1. Phil77 12 February 2020 06: 45 New
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      Quote: Far In
      In general, it seems that the author calls for "show understanding" and endure, endure, endure ...

      Plus, good morning! First of all, the authorities need to think, think and not bring the situation to a boiling point.
      1. Stas157 12 February 2020 06: 53 New
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        It is this lesson that should finally be learned by all those who today are no, no, and are trying to call Russia for a revolution and, in fact, a civil conflict

        And who is calling for a revolution and a civil war? I do not know such! Moreover, the authorities ordered criminal prosecution for this.

        But here are similar articles and discussions that we do not need revolution and civil war - more than enough! What is it for?

        In a society with severe social inequality, the government itself, through its actions, leads the country to social disagreement and conflict.
        1. Grandfather 12 February 2020 06: 59 New
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          Civil war in Russia: lessons learned and unlearned
          not learned a lesson in power.
          1. Ingvar 72 12 February 2020 08: 03 New
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            Quote: Dead Day
            not learned a lesson in power.

            So they do not risk anything globally, in which case - a suitcase, train station, Europe. request
            1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 08: 28 New
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              Ingvar 72 (Igor)
              So they do not risk anything globally, in which case - a suitcase, train station, Europe.
              Ha, Europe needs them as a dog’s fifth leg! They are beneficial to Europe as long as they are in power and while they help Europe to pump resources from Russia at a low price. And if they give them a kick, Europe will quickly turn away from them, their capital will be withdrawn and they will rummage around in garbage cans, as it was after 1917.
              It really is that history teaches that it teaches no one!
              1. Grandfather Crimea 12 February 2020 09: 34 New
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                Because every regular hare thinks that everything will be in chocolate and the fate of his bitter blowjob)))))))
              2. Ingvar 72 12 February 2020 15: 58 New
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                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Ha, Europe needs them as a dog’s fifth leg!

                We need, because they invest "their hard-earned money" in the economies of those countries where they build houses for themselves.
            2. mat-vey 12 February 2020 08: 30 New
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              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Quote: Dead Day
              not learned a lesson in power.

              So they do not risk anything globally, in which case - a suitcase, train station, Europe. request

              Aha-aha await them there ... there are enough of their own effective ones, even superfluous ..
        2. kepmor 12 February 2020 07: 07 New
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          I read ... and somehow I immediately remembered the famous phrase of our one and only indispensable ... do you want like in France ??? ...
        3. Mar.Tirah 12 February 2020 07: 10 New
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          Quote: Stas157
          And who is calling for a revolution and a civil war? I do not know such! Moreover, the authorities ordered criminal prosecution for this.

          And you tell Kiselev and Co. on the first channel. It is they who start to incite hatred and heal old wounds. Is bleaching of Kolchak (and other white generals just around the corner) this is the point of this article? Although he shed as much blood as we have even at all times the repression was not shed. So you need to burn all the archives with facts and photos of the atrocities, destroy the victims' monuments, and put up Kolchak? They call it reconciliation. So comrades, or how do you now, Lord, fail ????? Pandora’s box they will not close it.
          1. Stas157 12 February 2020 07: 18 New
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            It should be noted that the Yeltsin capitalist coup in 1991 occurred bloodlessly.
            But Yeltsin himself, in 1993, in the struggle for power, was ready to drown Russia in blood - from tanks, in the center of Moscow, he fired at the parliament. And still has not been held responsible for this! This is nothing but the hypocritical position of the authorities.

            It turns out that it is possible to shoot cannons at the people’s representatives if you yourself are one of the branches of government and ultimately prove to be the winner.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ezekiel 25-17 12 February 2020 08: 05 New
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            Pandora's box has long been opened by the Bolsheviks and their aftermaths. It was they, the Bolsheviks, who claimed and are claiming infallibility. They, the Bolsheviks and their followers do not want to try on. Like the old monster is looking for someone to devour. They say the war is not over until its last soldier is buried. In our place on Red Square lies her last soldier, who is not repose according to Christian custom, and he is also the ideological executioner of millions of subjects of the Empire Ulyanov-Lenin. Until his mummy is interred, a civil war will live in our hearts ...
            1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 08: 30 New
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              Ezekiel 25-17 (Andrey) Until his mummy is interred The civil war will live in our hearts ...
              Civil war will live as long as there are people like you, Olgovich and you like!
              1. Ezekiel 25-17 12 February 2020 08: 50 New
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                The Samurai path is the path to death. To the Bolsheviks, their followers and simply people without honor, this was not given to understand.
                1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 09: 00 New
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                  Of course, it’s not for you to tell about honor, where the Bulk-crusts have the honor, normal people have a fifth point. All your "honor" came down to the sale of the homeland. First, the Entente sold out, then to the Germans, and now to the Americans. One word skins are corrupt.
                2. sergo1914 12 February 2020 09: 03 New
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                  Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
                  The Samurai path is the path to death. To the Bolsheviks, their followers and simply people without honor, this was not given to understand.


                  Normally, it pins you. Bolsheviks, samurai ...
                3. Grandfather 12 February 2020 09: 14 New
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                  Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
                  The Samurai path is the path to death.

                  go ... make sepukka ...
                4. AA17 12 February 2020 11: 25 New
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                  Dear Andrey. The brief essence of the Civil War in Russia: part of the country's population, after the collapse of the Monarchy, wanted to preserve their privileges: "do nothing and live for your own pleasure", and most of the Russian population was against these privileges: "who does not work, he does not eat" . And since there were a majority of opponents of privileges, they won. Hence your phrase: “They, the Bolsheviks and their followers do not want to try on.” - This is an incorrect interpretation of the events of the Civil War.
                  1. Octopus 13 February 2020 08: 41 New
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                    Quote: AA17
                    part of the country's population, after the collapse of the Monarchy, wanted to preserve their privileges: "do nothing and live for pleasure", and most of the Russian population was against these privileges: "who does not work, he does not eat"

                    Correct if I am mistaken, but it seems that the Bolsheviks did not overthrow the monarchy, but the republic, specifically established with the Socialist Revolutionary majority.
                    Quote: AA17
                    privileges: "do nothing and live for pleasure"

                    Sorry, but whoever did it there and lived for his pleasure in Zurich? Admiral Kolchak?
                    Quote: AA17
                    since there were a majority of opponents of privileges, they won

                    Do I understand you correctly that Comrade Voikov fought against privileges?
                    1. AA17 13 February 2020 10: 53 New
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                      “Correct, if I am mistaken, but it seems that the Bolsheviks did not overthrow the monarchy, but the republic, specifically established a Socialist Revolutionary majority.” - Your phrase.
                      Correct, I did not write that the Bolsheviks overthrew the Monarchy. The beginning of the collapse of the Bourgeois Republic was the rebellion of General Kornilov.
                      "... On August 26 (September 8), 1917, General Kornilov attempted to take full power to fight the" irresponsible organizations "... On August 27 (September 9) 1917 Kerensky called the actions of General Kornilov a rebellion, and announced his withdrawal from positions and was appointed by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief .... Kerensky allowed the issuance of weapons to the Bolshevik Red Guard to fight the Kornilovites. The All-Russian Central Executive Committee formed the People’s Committee against Counter-Revolution, which mobilized up to 60 thousand people to fight against the Kornilovites; The Bolshevik agitators were sent to the soldiers. The railroad also opposed Kornilov. On August 30 (September 12), 1917, the Provisional Government granted amnesty to the Bolsheviks. On September 3 (16), 1917, Trotsky was released from the "Crosses".
                      The Kornilovites were defeated because the troops of the 3rd Cavalry Corps propagandized by the Bolsheviks refused to continue their movement to Petrograd. Kornilov and his associates were arrested, and Krymov shot himself .... The cadets, in solidarity with General Kornilov, resigned, causing another government crisis. .... By November 1917, the inability of the Provisional Government to cope with the growing anarchy became apparent. The army of a warring country is rapidly falling apart; in February-November 1917, up to 1,5 million people deserted. The surplus policy failed, the bread standards in Petrograd and Moscow were reduced to 0,5 pounds per person per day. The strike movement in the cities and the seizure of landlord lands in villages increased sharply. Against this background, the "Bolshevization of the Soviets" is taking place, which took place actively in August-October 1917. By the beginning of November 1917, the Bolsheviks occupied up to 90% of the seats in the Petrograd Soviet, up to 60% in the Moscow, and most of the seats in 80 local Soviets of large industrial cities. On September 17 (30), 1917, the Bolshevik V.P. Nogin became chairman of the Moscow Soviet; on September 25 (October 8), 1917, Trotsky, who was already the chairman of the Petrosoviet in 1905, became the chairman of the Petrosoviet. On the side of the Bolsheviks are the soldiers' committees, primarily the Northern and Western Fronts, the Petrograd garrison and the Central Balt. At the Second Congress of Deputies of the Baltic Fleet, a resolution was adopted that the fleet "does not obey the government", the Bolshevik-Left Social Revolutionary Committee of the Baltic Fleet was elected. ... "
                      "... By October 1917, power was simply lying on the ground, and it was picked up by the most organized, armed and disciplined force - the Bolshevik party, said State Duma deputy Vyacheslav Nikonov. He said this on October 25 on the channel’s 60 minute program "Russia 1" .... "Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2338624.html
                      And what about Admiral Kolchak? He was a supporter of privileges and defended the interests of private property. "... If you divide the life of Alexander Vasilyevich Kolchak into two parts, you get a contrasting image: before and after the throne of the supreme ruler of Russia. Before is an incredible life story of a romantic, traveler, discoverer, brave officer and outstanding admiral. But in Siberian ruler Kolchak left an ambiguous memory. Cruel, nervous, hysterical. He tried to collect taxes for the past years, as if he really imagines himself to be a king. His troops burned villages, took hostages, executed and flogged dissenters. ... "
                      I did not understand the question of Voikov.
                      1. Octopus 13 February 2020 13: 32 New
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                        Hmm.
                        You rarely see a person of pro-Bolshevik views who is ready to move on slogans to facts.

                        By "raised power." You are absolutely right. Russia was given to the Bolsheviks headquarters, Kerensky and Chernov. But you are somewhat gone from the statist theme. Who, say, wanted to preserve privileges, Kerensky? What kind of privileges?
                        According to Kolchak. So privileges: "do nothing and live for pleasure" - is it about him? Which of the famous white movement leaders with arms in your hands specifically fought for their right to lead a parasitic lifestyle?
                        According to Voikov. He is firmly associated with the shooting of the family, but this, I remember, was comrade Yurovsky. He shot, then, Mr. Romanov, class distant grand kneshen, Tsarevich, doctor and valet, class close cook and maid. I would like to open the topic of the struggle with privileges. Specifically, the example of A.S. Demidova.
                      2. AA17 13 February 2020 13: 51 New
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                        Among the nobles there were many people with progressive views who understood: the exploitation of man by man is a dead end for the development of civilization. About privileges, I said simplified (meaning estate). And so all the NORTHERNS had privileges by birth: to be a military man (career in the army) or to be an official (career in the civil service). Workers and peasants, who were the majority in Russia, the path to the upper floors of the authorities was closed. What do you want to hear from me? I have my own system of values ​​of the surrounding world, which was instilled in me by Parents, School, Army, University, etc. You have it different. We are adults, we can’t re-educate us. What will my attitude to Voikov or Demidova give you?
                      3. Octopus 13 February 2020 22: 36 New
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                        Quote: AA17
                        nobles there were many people with progressive views

                        Vladimir Ilyich?
                        Quote: AA17
                        privileges had all the nobles by birth: to be a soldier (career in the army) or to be an official (career in the civil service).

                        Read on Wikipedia about the execution of the royal family. Pierce the servants, look at their origin. Take an interest in the origin and way of life of Lenin, Trotsky and, say, Denikin or Kerensky.
                        Quote: AA17
                        What will my attitude give you?

                        Somehow, the liberals quickly managed to poison a person who defends the sanctity of VOSR.
        4. Mar.Tirah 12 February 2020 09: 04 New
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          Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
          It was they, the Bolsheviks, who claimed and are claiming infallibility.

          I actually do not pretend to anything, I am not a communist. I pretend to respect and remember the ancestors who defended my land not only during the Second World War, but in the Civil War. That my parents did not become soap and slaves of the Germans and ANTANTA (which and your admirers served), and my childhood was joyful and carefree, and I wanted the same for my children and grandchildren. And I, unlike you, still remember that old father’s budenovka — the warriors of the victors who broke the ridge of the White Guards. And cry and repent. curse my the past is your part. Read about the affairs of your admirers. oil.https: //pandoraopen.ru/2020-02-10/zverstva-av-kolchaka-i-kolchakovcev-protiv-narodov-rossii-zabyty/
          1. Octopus 13 February 2020 08: 44 New
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            Quote: Mar. Tira
            Civil war. That my parents did not become soap and slaves of the Germans and ANTANTS

            As far as I remember, the Entente at that time fought on the side of the Bolsheviks against Finland, Poland and Japan. Are you a fan of Mannerheim?
            1. Mar.Tirah 13 February 2020 15: 44 New
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              Quote: Octopus
              As long as I remember,

              Do you write something from the grave? After the October Revolution of 1917, the Entente organized an armed intervention against Soviet Russia - on December 23, 1917, Great Britain and France signed an agreement. In March 1918, the Entente intervention began, but the campaigns against Soviet Russia ended in failure. The goals that the Entente set for itself were achieved after the defeat of Germany in the First World War, but the strategic alliance between the leading countries of the Entente, Great Britain and France, continued in the following decades. I did not want to be their slaves. Judging by the history of the school the scripture wasn’t very good? Well, that’s understandable. Was the Soviet government banned and acted like a red rag on a bull? Well, at least here you will increase your knowledge. The general political and military leadership of the bloc’s activities in different periods was carried out: By the All-Union Conferences (1915, 1916, 1917, 1918), the Entente Supreme Council, the Inter-Union (Executive) Military Committee, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Forces, the General Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, the Commanders-in-Chief and the headquarters of individual theaters of war. This is to the one to whom Kolchak was subordinate.
              1. Octopus 13 February 2020 22: 22 New
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                Quote: Mar. Tira
                Entente intervention began ... The goals that the Entente set for itself were achieved after the defeat of Germany in World War I

                Ugums.
                Therefore, Antata, which is very characteristic of her, fought not with her new enemies, the Soviet government, but with her old enemies, Germany and a number of puppet states created by the latter on the lands of the former RI. In the North, the intervention of the Entente did not allow the finals, at that time pro-German, to keep the territory of Karelia. In the South, the intervention of the Entente helped the One and Indivisible on the one hand and the Bolsheviks on the other hand to strangle the UPR. In the Baltic, the notorious Curzon line did not limit the territorial claims of the RSFSR to the West, but, on the contrary, Poland to the East. Poland, however, sent Curzon away. Finally, in the East, US-Japanese showdowns put an end to the formal independence of the Far East.
                1. Mar.Tirah 14 February 2020 05: 57 New
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                  Quote: Octopus
                  Therefore, Antata, which is very characteristic of her, fought not with her new enemies, the Soviet government, but with her old enemies, Germany and a number of puppet states created by the latter on the lands of the former RI.

                  Oh well, directly guardian angels and not colonizers ??? But what about this?

                  The Allies, and especially the British, generously supplied Kolchak with ammunition, weapons and money. “We sent to Siberia,” General Knox, the commander of the British troops in Siberia, proudly reported, “hundreds of thousands of rifles, hundreds of millions of cartridges, hundreds of thousands of sets of uniforms and machine-gun belts and etc. Each bullet fired by Russian soldiers into the Bolsheviks during this year was made in England, by English workers, from English raw materials and delivered to Vladivostok in English holds. ”
                  1. Octopus 14 February 2020 06: 45 New
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                    Quote: Mar. Tira
                    straight guardian angels

                    No, what are you! Ordinary stupid and evil people.
                    Quote: Mar. Tira
                    colonizers?

                    )))
                    English colonization still needs to be earned.
                    Quote: Mar. Tira
                    proudly reported the commander of the British troops in Siberia, General Knox

                    Report - do not toss bags.
                    Formally The Entente supported Kolchak United and Indivisible Russia. Actually Entente’s actions crushed any Bolshevik projects, and the White movement was originally a political corpse. Actually, Kolchak’s fate is an example of this.

                    Later, in the late 40s, Comrade Stalin, a very insincere man, invented all sorts of nasty things about American interventionists. And at that time, it was the Entente that preserved for the Bolsheviks Murmansk, Ukraine with Belarus, Transcaucasia / Central Asia and Transbaikalia.
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                2. 72jora72 16 February 2020 13: 50 New
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                  Later, in the late 40s, Comrade Stalin, a very insincere man, invented all sorts of nasty things about American interventionists.
                  Stalin is guilty again wink
    2. Ptolemy Lag 12 February 2020 10: 33 New
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      The Bolsheviks had ideas and brains, and Pandora’s box was opened by Nikolai the Bloody, who, for French loans, threw an unmobilized army into the slaughter.
      1. ser56 12 February 2020 12: 35 New
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        Quote: Ptolemy Lag
        who for French loans threw an unmobilized army into a slaughterhouse.

        1) some nonsense ... IN2 (and its generals, the General Staff of the RIA) understood well what a coalition war was, so it helped an allied France in 1914 and did not let it crush! Yes. at the cost of defeating the 2nd army! However, the consequence of this was that the Western Front became the main one and the WWI and the losses of Germans (and French / British) there are more than in the Eastern ... request And your idol Stalin made us bear the brunt of the war against the Nazis!
        2) Now the United States owes China 1 trl - will they also fight for the interests of China? bully
    3. New Year day 12 February 2020 11: 16 New
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      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      It was they, the Bolsheviks, who claimed and are claiming infallibility.

      maybe stop blaming everything on the Bolsheviks? What today's authorities can boast of, lives on the fruits of labor of generations of Soviet citizens. All the turmoil in the country bears power through his actions and attitude towards inner life. Who implemented the pension reform? -Bolsheviks? This is so for the most part. But what does tomorrow have for us?
  2. ser56 12 February 2020 12: 31 New
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    Quote: Mar. Tira
    Whitewashing Kolchak (

    if not a secret - why is it worse than rehabilitated Tukhachevsky? What was a polar explorer? Or that the peasants did not poison the gas?
  • Chervonny 12 February 2020 07: 37 New
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    Quote: Stas157
    such articles and discussions that we do not need revolution and civil war - more than enough! What is it for?

    Moreover, the situation in Russia is explosive. Stratification of society, adoption of not popular laws, increased corruption, with TV we are shown some kind of illusion different from real life, etc. in many ways, everything resembles 1917.
    1. bober1982 12 February 2020 07: 57 New
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      Quote: Red
      in many ways, everything resembles 1917.

      Until 1917, it was still a long way off, then the army and the police completely decomposed, which was the main reason for the ease with which both the February and October coups were carried out.
      By the way, in1991, the army and the police were a miserable sight, they laughed at them openly.
      The current government, correctly, does not repeat the mistakes of its unsuccessful predecessors.
      1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 08: 23 New
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        bober1982 (vladimir)
        The current government, correctly, does not repeat the mistakes of its unsuccessful predecessors.
        It depends on what you consider to be "competently does not repeat." From the point of view of strengthening power by the security forces, yes, here I agree. And I think that power should not be weak, especially in Russia. BUT, it is necessary to consider ALL errors and only then the state will be strong. If the people for the most part do not support the state or at least treat it neutrally, then such a state is short-lived. Despite all the efforts of the security forces, if the people go against it, then no force will deter the state from collapse. So the state is strong in the first place with the support of the people.
        If the people so hated the Bolsheviks, as Olgovich and Co. are trying to suggest to us here, then they would not have supported the government in 1941, as he had not supported it in 1917.
        1. bober1982 12 February 2020 08: 39 New
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          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Despite all the efforts of the security forces, if the people go against it, then no force will deter the state from collapse

          It is not clear who to understand by the people - a large number of traders, parasites, hucksters, office workers, talkers, etc., who are far from the ideas of socialism. So it turns out that the main protest contingent is citizens in expensive coats, citizens in mink coats and stupid youngsters who joined them, so to speak, the shock force of the revolution. To disperse all this motley audience is easy, it would be a desire.
          1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 08: 55 New
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            bober1982 (vladimir)
            It is not clear who to understand by the people - a large number of traders, parasites, hucksters, office workers, talkers, etc., who are far from the ideas of socialism.
            Do you know what the trouble is of our bakers, and indeed the enemies of Russia? You always underestimate our people, considering them below you, some kind of cattle, and in vain! The people of Russia have repeatedly shown what they are capable of. However, since you do not want to take lessons in 1917, then the kingdom of heaven is your own fault. Just then don’t scream, but why then ?!
            1. bober1982 12 February 2020 09: 07 New
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              Quote: Varyag_0711
              However, since you do not want to take lessons in 1917

              They like to remember about the lessons of 1917, for some reason they are always bashfully silent about the lessons of 1991.
              The queue to McDonalds, the charged water from Chumak, financial scams, abomination on the stage and in the cinema, and much more - these are not all remnants of the bloody tsarist regime, and not the machinations of crystal bakers, these are crooked socialist brains of Soviet people.
              1. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 09: 33 New
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                bober1982 (vladimir)
                They like to remember about the lessons of 1917, for some reason they are always bashfully silent about the lessons of 1991.
                Not at all. Only now the lesson of 1991 speaks of how dangerous it is to get traitors in power. And it started back in the time of the creeping crap.
                Queue at McDonalds,
                I never understood this idiocy. By the way, for all my 46 years I have never gone to McDonald’s, and I'm not going to.
                Chumak’s charged water, financial scams, abomination on the stage and in the cinema, and much more
                This is called a hassle. The people simply fell for all this muck like jeans and a beautiful wrapper, without thinking that there was stinky dung inside. However, this can be attributed to the USSR minuses. For 70 years, people are accustomed to believe in the state, newspapers, radio and TV. It just never occurred to anyone at that moment that the traitors had already seized power.
                these are the crooked socialist brains of Soviet people.
                You have crooked brains if you naively believe that the people will continue to believe in the capitalist dream, to which you are so eager to draw us.
                And those "crooked brains" were the first to bring a person into space. I will not write about other achievements, because there is not enough space.
                But what are your achievements? Stomping on the spot in the economy? Raising the retirement age? What else can you brag about?
                1. bober1982 12 February 2020 09: 42 New
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                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  By the way, for all its 46 years

                  It’s clear, a young man, perestroika began .... 10-11 years old, they didn’t even find this time, their consciousness was childish.
                  Question..... where were you on the night of August 18-19, 1991 - disappears.
                2. Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 09: 51 New
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                  bober1982 (vladimir)
                  Question ..... where were you on the night of August 18-19, 1991 - disappears.
                  It must be assumed that you were at the barricades at this historic moment?
                  No barricades were observed in our town, and nothing really depended on us, everything was decided in Moscow. And if Yazov had the guts to disperse your venal party, then we would be talking differently with you now.
                3. bober1982 12 February 2020 10: 09 New
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                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  It must be assumed that you were at the barricades at this historic moment?

                  At this historical moment, I served in the ranks of the Soviet Air Force, they all wanted to spit on Soviet civilization, speaking the language of one respected local author.
                4. New Year day 12 February 2020 11: 18 New
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                  Quote: bober1982
                  they all wanted to spit on Soviet civilization, speaking the language of one respected local author.

                  what about "spit on today's civilization"?
                5. bober1982 12 February 2020 11: 22 New
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                  Quote: Silvestr
                  what about "spit on today's civilization"?

                  And, for the same thing today, people have long been spoiled by the housing issue, which is well known.
                6. New Year day 12 February 2020 11: 29 New
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                  Quote: bober1982
                  people have long been spoiled by the housing issue, which is well known.

                  he always spoiled
                7. bober1982 12 February 2020 11: 34 New
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                  Quote: Silvestr
                  he always spoiled

                  Then what equality, fraternity and freedom can we talk about? These are empty words.
                8. New Year day 12 February 2020 12: 01 New
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                  Quote: bober1982
                  Then what equality, fraternity and freedom can we talk about? These are empty words.

                  you compare interpersonal relationships and social. Personal - only aggravated due to the dough. Public- just disappeared.

                  After the collapse of the Union, everyone suddenly became nationalists and dispersed into their national apartments. If under the Union I traveled calmly throughout the country, not being afraid of local nuances, now you will think hard when traveling even within my own country.
                9. bober1982 12 February 2020 12: 16 New
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                  Quote: Silvestr
                  After the collapse of the Union, all of a sudden all became nationalists and scattered

                  How - suddenly? It means that they were like that while they were holding on a short leash, they were with a Marxist consciousness. They gave Slabin the power - they immediately fled, and the trace got cold from the former Soviet fellow citizens.
                  The picture that is shown is, of course, pretty, but even in those days, as they say, not everything was so simple. They drank, all categories of citizens, drunkenly, on the street could easily break their heads (Why not wearing a cap with earflaps?)
                  In the 90s, they could be thrown out of the train, now they have put things in order, you can ride quietly, which is why you think hard.
                10. New Year day 12 February 2020 12: 21 New
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                  Quote: bober1982
                  How - suddenly?

                  from those when the "realization" of one’s own greatness came
                  Quote: bober1982
                  but in those days, as they say, it was not so simple.

                  I agree, but before the clashes with the use of aviation and artillery did not reach
                  Quote: bober1982
                  They drank, all categories of citizens, drunkenly, on the street could easily break their heads

                  here you can argue! In the year 83, when a client was brought to the hospital with a knife wound, half the hospital ran to look at him.
                  Now no one even goes to look at the gunshot, it has become commonplace
                  Quote: bober1982
                  In the 90s, they could be thrown out of the train, now they have put things in order, you can ride quietly, which is why you think hard.

                  special cases should not be taken for the system. In addition to the train there are hotels, hotels, public catering and just communication with local
                11. bober1982 12 February 2020 12: 38 New
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                  Quote: Silvestr
                  from those when the "realization" of one’s own greatness came

                  “Beating determines consciousness”, this is to rephrase the Marxists, that is, when they stopped receiving them on the head with a police baton, or stopped threatening to send them to forced labor - and the awareness of your own greatness that you mentioned occurs, which happened with such characters as former true Leninists, like Messrs. Kravchuk, Turchinov, Tymoshenko and many, many others.
                12. New Year day 12 February 2020 12: 44 New
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                  Quote: bober1982
                  when they stopped receiving on the head with a police baton, or stopped threatening to send them to forced labor

                  you might think that under the Union they hit on the head with batons laughing
                  Then, in a holster, a policeman wore sandwiches
                13. bober1982 12 February 2020 12: 55 New
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                  I agree, I said unsuccessfully about the batons, but it doesn’t change the essence - the main thing was just to say that man is brother and comrade to man, and Lenin is more alive than all alive, but as soon as the CPSU itself began to laugh at these chants, everyone ran to everything four sides, some with shooting.
            2. your1970 12 February 2020 20: 20 New
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              Quote: Silvestr
              here you can argue! In the year 83, when a client was brought to the hospital with a knife wound, half the hospital ran to look at him.
              Now no one even goes to look at the gunshot, it has become commonplace
              is depending on where ....
              “Hadi Taktash,” for example, arose in the late 70s and there were already many stab-chopped in Kazan hospitals
              In 1978, we had a fight in an area on the heap of dividing everything (including women) -12 corpses and a demon cloud broken
              “Saransk” - exchanged armfuls of cowards of raped girls as a sign of reconciliation (forgot what they called it in 1987-88)
              In certain areas, it was not advisable even in the afternoon to be in quite a few cities

              No need to idealize the Union
            3. New Year day 12 February 2020 20: 26 New
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              Quote: your1970
              No need to idealize the Union

              Kazan is not the whole Union. If you had wild morals in the city, this does not mean that everyone lived like that
            4. your1970 12 February 2020 20: 57 New
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              Quote: Silvestr
              Quote: your1970
              No need to idealize the Union

              Kazan is not the whole Union. If you had wild morals in the city, this does not mean that everyone lived like that
              we - this is the Saratov region and it’s even not Saratov.

              early 80s - Kazan, Saransk, Saratov, Sverdlovsk, Chelyabinsk, Tashkent, Andijan - these are the cities that I know exactly about the local gangs of youth with significant numbers

              A little later (1985-88) Moscow
              Orekhovo-Borisovo for example- "The Orekhovo group got its name from the Orekhovo-Borisovo housing estate in Moscow, where most of its members lived. It began to emerge in the mid-1980s and was finally formed by 1988.)"
              or Lueber (1987) ..
  • Alexander Suvorov 12 February 2020 09: 19 New
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    ober1982 (vladimir)
    It is not clear who to understand by the people
    And who should be understood by the concept of people? Let me guess, probably lousy intelligentsia, about which grandfather Lenin said that this is not a color, but a ram of a nation?
    merchants, parasites, hucksters, office workers,
    Somehow you all famously under the same comb and face in the manure. Do you think that you can do without traders? I didn’t meet parasites, but people who cannot find decent work for themselves are full.
    So it turns out that the main protest contingent is citizens in expensive coats, citizens in mink coats and stupid youngsters who have joined them, so to speak, the shock force of the revolution.
    This is precisely the contingent that our government is completely satisfied with in order to make it appear like democracy and at the same time distract the real people from thoughts of rebellion! But when the miners with the casts go out into the street, then put out the light. All of your shushera will run away to someone where.
    To disperse all this motley audience is easy, it would be a desire.
    It was necessary to disperse in 1991, then you look and there would be no millions that did not fit into the market.
    1. bober1982 12 February 2020 09: 25 New
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      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
      Do you think that you can do without traders?

      No, there’s no way to do it, by the way, I myself am a shopkeeper (office), very experienced and with baryzheskie habits, I know all the ins and outs of this difficult profession, as well as the psychology of my associates (they don’t pull them on the street)
      1. sabakina 12 February 2020 09: 54 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        No, there’s no way to do it, by the way, I’m a shopkeeper myself (office), very experienced and with baryzheskimi habits, my associates (they can’t pull them off into the street)

        If you know the story well, then you should remember that it was just like you and comrades in expensive coats who took to the streets in February 1917 with the slogans "For a war to a victorious end." How did it end?
        1. bober1982 12 February 2020 10: 04 New
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          Quote: sabakina
          If you know the story well, then you should remember that it was just like you and comrades in expensive coats who took to the streets in February 1917 with the slogans "For a war to a victorious end." How did it end?

          Why are you making absurdities?
          In February 1917, they screamed in the streets - Come on bread!, and with comrades in expensive fur coats, these very fur coats very quickly pulled off.
      2. mat-vey 12 February 2020 09: 54 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        I know all the ins and outs of this difficult profession well, as well as the psychology of my associates (they don’t pull them into rebellion)

        The psychology of shopkeepers, as history shows, is more prone to fascism.
        1. bober1982 12 February 2020 10: 00 New
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          Quote: mat-vey
          The psychology of shopkeepers, as history shows, is more prone to fascism

          Why not read in the comments.
          Before such a conclusion, even Marx himself with Lenin did not think of it, right ...to fascism, judge for yourself what the shopkeeper cares about socialism, imperialism - he is, after all, interested in a profit, and only, that is, fill his pocket.
        2. mat-vey 12 February 2020 10: 03 New
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          Indeed, not only didn’t they “think of it”, they didn’t even survive.
  • Grandfather 12 February 2020 09: 16 New
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    Quote: Varyag_0711
    It depends on what you consider to be "competently does not repeat."

    these are the troops of the "Russian Guard" .. which by the way were first called the "National Guard", but we were outraged! then THEY said: okay ... let it "grow" to you then what's the difference raking?
  • Octopus 13 February 2020 08: 48 New
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    Quote: Varyag_0711
    Despite all the efforts of the security forces, if the people go against it, then no force will deter the state from collapse. So the state is strong in the first place with the support of the people.

    You're wrong. Russia is pipelines and their protection. And the people here are not needed, from him one bazaar station.
  • Varyag_0711 12 February 2020 08: 08 New
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    Chervonny
    Moreover, the situation in Russia is explosive.
    The situation has been explosive for nearly 30 years. After the euphoria and frenzy of the 90s, when people finally understood how they qualitatively lit them and threw them, many began to clear up in their brains. Well, the fact that the bundle continues to grow and the contradictions reach the boiling point, this only warms up the heat. The civil war did not end; it only froze for a while. In the 90s, the revisionists, the heirs of those same “whites,” took over. So we have that for which the whites fought. The sale of the homeland, squandering resources and wild unbridled corruption. All that at one time and ruined RI.
    Although on some forums in Runet, no, no, and stumble upon the collisions of the “white” with the “red”, where commentators are clearly not averse to moving from words to chopping with sabers and shooting from Nagans ...
    Why go far there, the VO forum is a concrete proof of this. Here, too, the felling does not reach the felling.
    1. Grandfather 12 February 2020 09: 18 New
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      Quote: Varyag_0711
      Chervonny
      Moreover, the situation in Russia is explosive.
      The situation has been explosive for nearly 30 years. After the euphoria and frenzy of the 90s, when people finally understood how they qualitatively lit them and threw them, many began to clear up in their brains. Well, the fact that the bundle continues to grow and the contradictions reach the boiling point, this only warms up the heat. The civil war did not end; it only froze for a while. In the 90s, the revisionists, the heirs of those same “whites,” took over. So we have that for which the whites fought. The sale of the homeland, squandering resources and wild unbridled corruption. All that at one time and ruined RI.
      Although on some forums in Runet, no, no, and stumble upon the collisions of the “white” with the “red”, where commentators are clearly not averse to moving from words to chopping with sabers and shooting from Nagans ...
      Why go far there, the VO forum is a concrete proof of this. Here, too, the felling does not reach the felling.

      Let’s set up your "machine" ... I will put the "machine" ... good
    2. New Year day 12 February 2020 11: 19 New
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      Quote: Varyag_0711
      ut, too, doesn’t reach the felling.

      that's for sure! Why go far!
  • vladimirZ 12 February 2020 08: 50 New
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    The revolution and the Civil War are not generated by revolutionaries and people, they are generated by anti-people bourgeois predatory power and capitalists who exploit the people to the impossibility of further people suffering their plight. This is an axiom of social development of the state.
    Does the author really not understand this, calling for the reconciliation of the antagonistic classes that exist in any exploiting society? Or is there a banal development for a certain political order for money? Most likely the second.
  • Svarog 12 February 2020 08: 13 New
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    It is this lesson that should finally be learned by all those who today are no, no, and they are trying to call Russia for a revolution and, in fact, a civil conflict as a means of solving certain problems. Russia has survived many disasters that have fallen on its mighty shoulders for centuries, and is able to withstand even the most difficult trials. However, unrest, schism, fratricide should not be repeated on our land ever.

    Situations are completely different .. even if there is a revolution .. then a brother will not go for a brother this time .. For the nouveau riches are fading for the cordon so quickly that only the heels will sparkle .. Society now will not be so divided, because it already knows that such is the USSR and socialism, society knows where justice was and in what state retirees were valued, and did not seek to get rid of them. For these reasons (and in fact there are many more), you do not need to compare that situation and this .. As soon as five million people go out into the street in Moscow .. The authorities will leave immediately with a white flag ..
    1. Grandfather 12 February 2020 09: 19 New
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      Quote: Svarog
      Situations are completely different .. if there is even a revolution .. then brother will not go to brother this time.

      it doesn’t happen ... they will go, and they will kill. they kill because of property, but ideologically, easily. scary and cynical, but a fact.
    2. DEDPIHTO 12 February 2020 10: 05 New
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      [quote = Svarog] [quote] As soon as five million people take to the streets in Moscow .. The authorities will come out immediately with a white flag .. [/ quote]
      Do not give God! no Once fed up already fed (even if not 5 million), now the whole country spits. They only have a grasping-chewing reflex and it works only on everything imported - hamburgers with jeans and American chewing gum got it, now what does it mean - lace trunks? stop ..Let they sit at home from sin, but we still have a second capital, which under certain conditions can become the first .. Petrograd is a glorious city .. wink good
    3. your1970 12 February 2020 20: 41 New
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      Quote: Svarog
      Situations are completely different .. if there is even a revolution .. then brother will not go to brother this time.
      -What are you !!! And why did you go to Civil? Do not remember? Do not?
      so i I remind- one brother wanted land for the people, the second wanted freedom for people, the third believed that "the owners should be richer than idlers," the fourth believed that anarchy was the most important thing in this life, and Moscow Petrograd was evil and robbing the whole country
      And everyone considered right only and exclusively himself (something like on VO now) ... for Its idea and killed brother brother .......

      Quote: Svarog
      Society now will not be so divided because already knows what the USSR is and socialism, society knows where justice was and in what state retirees were valued, rather than trying to get rid of them.
      - I am embarrassed to remind you that people who did not see in the eyes The USSR is already 30-35 years old (40 in reality)
      those who found him more or less meaningful, like me for example - 50

      Quote: Svarog
      As soon as five million people take to the streets in Moscow .. Power will come out immediately with a white flag ..

      in 1991, several thousand — not millions — came out ... they overthrew the USSR ... because power already did not exist in nature, trash remained from power ... not one of the 16 million communists defended it ....
      in 2014 in Kiev, also enough of several thousand-rotted power
      but in 1993 the power was strong ... tanks arrived, shot at the White House and that’s all ...
  • Olgovich 12 February 2020 10: 07 New
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    Quote: Phil77
    First of all, the authorities need to think, think and not bring the situation to a boiling point.

    Hello Sergey!

    103 years ago Russia led the worst, the worst in its history, the war against the German-Turkish invaders.

    And the authorities in 1917 were the same as before the war and no revolution before the war, there wasn’t even a trace.

    Accordingly, it was the war, namely, its deprivation and its hardships, that weakened the country, power, and the situation of the population.
    Is it normal to take advantage of the country's weakness, in every way etching wounds, rejoicing and welcoming defeats, calling for ... the victory of the invaders - to achieve their party goals? I don’t think so.

    The author is absolutely right that must not arrange bloody showdowns among themselves, weakening the country and people: no winners except enemies

    The main lesson is the understanding that there is no other way, except that the people choose their representatives, and even they in the Duma let them fight to each other to death in search of a compromise, without involving millions into brutal, senseless killing.
    Otherwise, the country is thrown back decades ago, this is a terrible lesson from ALL citizen wars.

    Today they won and decide alone, tomorrow, after the next election, others may be decisive.
    Nothing better still human society didn't come up.

    There was such a chance in 1918 popularly elected Constituent Assembly of Russia.

    The chance was missed - and instead of paper "battles" of deputies in the Assembly, a real massacre of millions in the fields unfolded, where everyone had their own truth ...
    1. Foul skeptic 12 February 2020 14: 15 New
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      And the authorities in 1917 were the same as before the war and there were no revolutions before the war.

      The fact that in terms of the scope of 1902, and especially 1905 did not turn into 1917, is only that the world war began in 1914, and not earlier.
  • DMB 75 12 February 2020 07: 24 New
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    Quote: Far In
    This lesson should finally be learned not by those who call for a revolution, but by those who create a pre-revolutionary situation in the country, who do not give a damn about the opinion of their people and their aspirations.

    Do not bring to a civil war, there will not seem enough to anyone, have they really learned this lesson in power?
  • Aleksandre 12 February 2020 08: 13 New
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    Quote: Far In
    In general, it seems that the author calls for "show understanding" and endure, endure, endure ...

    There is such a joke: how do pessimists and optimists differ? The pessimist says: “no, it will not be worse ...”, and the optimist says “they will be! Will be!” So, the author must be afraid, as if it were not worse lol
  • lucul 12 February 2020 10: 08 New
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    For the cause of revolutions and the Civil War in the last century were precisely those who held power, and the revolutionaries themselves were only the result of the ill-conceived actions of officials of all stripes in general and the anointed man himself with his household, in particular.

    You take an interest in the nationality of these "revolutionaries" to begin with.)))
    100 years have passed - and still noodles on the ears ......
  • your1970 12 February 2020 20: 07 New
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    Quote: Far In
    In the early twentieth century, the British and the Americans and their then allies unequivocally benefited from the Russian unrest.
    Oh, what a controversial thesis! And what is their clear win was at the time of the end of the Civil War ?!

    Yes, the shaft of wins, the shaft .... !!!!
    1) Russia was excluded from the list of winners. Reparations were shared without us, but there was something to share:
    "Following the First World War, the Versailles Peace Treaty was concluded, according to which the amount of reparations was determined: 269 ​​billion gold marks - the equivalent of approximately 100 tons (!!!!!!!!) of gold."
    Moreover
    "Already after the Second World War and the formation in 1949 of the Federal Republic of Germany, the foreign ministers of the USA, England and France obliged her return to the payment of debts under the Treaty of Versailles. "
    Divide 100 tons of gold 4 or 3 - there is something to think about ...
    for scanty pennies compared to this dough - they smashed Libya to hell with the dog ...
    2) They took out a competitor - Russia from the world market ..... completely .... for 20 years at least ...
    And they took out both a commercial competitor and a political one ....
    3) They appropriated the personal money of Nicholas 2 (including the stones in the British crown). I am 101% sure that this was the main reason why England did not accept it. If I wanted, they would load it and take it to some Australia / Canada / New Zealand .. .. There was no desire; the matter went to the obvious death of Nikolasha and the sharing of his money
    4) The division of the gold of the Russian Empire is not very much, but even here it’s gone too far. For example, Czechs paid them to export themselves from the Far East ... little thing, but nice ...
    5) Non-delivery of already paid goods - both military and civil
    6) The division of goods in the occupied territory, the export of everything and everything, to which hands reached ...
    7) It could well hope in the territory .... broke off - but it IS OUR afterglow, and they could well snatch and robust new colonies
    8) money located abroad of Russia - state and the accounts of legal entities of Russia - which they did not give back saying that they say "they do not recognize the RSFSR as the legal successor"
    9) trade only for real values ​​at clearly lower prices
    10) and so on ......

    This is offhand, what immediately came to mind ... but there was still a car there were pluses for these three vultures ...

    For much smaller values ​​in the 20-21 century, states are torn to shreds
  • apro 12 February 2020 06: 34 New
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    An interesting position of the author ... there are no problems. We must unite. We are of the same blood. We are from the same region ....
    Civil war is not a question of blood. It is a question of future development. How and where to go. Why. or not go at all.
    1. mat-vey 12 February 2020 07: 24 New
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      Quote: apro
      An interesting position of the author ... there are no problems. We must unite. We are of the same blood. We are from the same region ....
      Civil war is not a question of blood. It is a question of future development. How and where to go. Why. or not go at all.

      Actually, this position smacks of fascism ...
  • Uncle lee 12 February 2020 06: 50 New
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    there are no winners
    The one for whom the truth won!
    1. novel66 12 February 2020 07: 26 New
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      or power! lol and by the way!
      shooting from guns ...
      from Mausers !!! Hello! hi
      1. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 07: 34 New
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        Something like that ! And with a Mauser!
    2. Squelcher 12 February 2020 07: 34 New
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      And who won in 1991? Was there really the truth behind them too?
      1. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 07: 39 New
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        In 41 Germans won. So what ?
        1. Konstantin Shevchenko 12 February 2020 08: 15 New
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          The Germans did not run in 1941, but seized the initiative. Until the war is over, either Coca’s victory is out of the question.
        2. Squelcher 12 February 2020 09: 23 New
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          But in the Second World War, did the non-partisans not fight and die? Or do you separate the party and the people?
      2. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 08: 35 New
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        And behind them was a lie and a deceit!
        1. Squelcher 12 February 2020 09: 21 New
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          But were the communists always honest with the people?
          1. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 09: 28 New
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            More honest than today
            1. Squelcher 12 February 2020 09: 36 New
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              Who is this? Communists retraining or communist opportunists?
              1. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 09: 39 New
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                Quote: Squelcher
                Who is this?

                Leaders in power
                1. Squelcher 12 February 2020 09: 56 New
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                  So now the products of the Soviet nomenclature of the USSR are leading us, what do you hate about the Communists?

                  It’s a direct paradox that the Communists want to arrange a revolution against the Communists. The current Communist Party of the Russian Federation receives 70 percent from the budget. From the "hated" power.
                  1. Svarog 12 February 2020 10: 08 New
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                    Quote: Squelcher
                    It’s a direct paradox, the Communists want to organize a revolution against the Communists

                    So it’s not the Communists who are traitors ..
                    1. Squelcher 12 February 2020 10: 18 New
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                      So it turns out that the traitors sponsor - not the traitors of the parasites, who are like for the people. Due to taxes collected from the people? Somehow not logical not to find?
                    2. mat-vey 12 February 2020 11: 14 New
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                      Quote: Svarog
                      So it’s not the Communists who are traitors ..

                      Simply put, no matter what they write on the sheds, firewood still lies ...
                    3. Squelcher 12 February 2020 11: 30 New
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                      19 million members of the CPSU, the 5 millionth Soviet army, at least the millionth internal troops and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not to mention the powerful KGB with sexots, in 1991-92. betrayed their native USSR without a single shot. Where did the leading Communists and Chekists go, maybe they formed the Volunteer Army as the Whites did? To fight for your beloved Soviet Motherland? For the native Soviet power, for socialism, for a single and indivisible USSR? Not at all, they were engaged in privatization, they moved from district and regional committees to offices. The same applies to the masses of ordinary Soviet patriots who love the "jerkings" and hate the "anti-people" power. Not a single case is known that they went to the Soviet partisans.
                      But the fact remains, the Soviet patriots committed mass treason.
                      Whites even fought, and the difference from the Soviet "all owe us."
                  2. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 11: 32 New
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                    Quote: Squelcher
                    lead

                    And you yourself do not go compass head? You are drowning for the current ones, and they are on this list, and they are Communists, although former, and now liberals-marketers and tolerants in the third generation!
                    That's what the life-giving dollar does.
                    1. Squelcher 12 February 2020 12: 18 New
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                      Funny, where did you get that I drown for them? By the way, I didn’t privatize my apartment from the state, but I honestly earned it and bought it. How did you earn or privatize it? And the USSR did not betray, as he gave the oath to Russia. And what did you do to protect your native USSR?
                      1. Uncle lee 12 February 2020 13: 08 New
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                        Maxim, my boy, we have different horizons and concepts and our further debate is pointless ... And therefore I take my leave.
                        PS And I got an apartment from the enterprise, as a young specialist, I live in it, I did not privatize it. And my son took a mortgage, and when it’s settled, I won’t live ... hi
                      2. Squelcher 12 February 2020 14: 16 New
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                        The boy stayed in 1995. No one is eternal, death can take anyone at any time, fulfilled the oath.
  • Vladimir_2U 12 February 2020 06: 54 New
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    In the days of the Soviet Union, for obvious reasons, the representatives of the Red Camp were considered to be the heroes and the “right side” of the Civil. Their opponents exhibited the embodiment of evil and all kinds of vices
    It is impossible to agree with the author of this article! Even without considering white emigration as a source of propaganda and myths all the time of the existence of the USSR, one cannot help but recall the creeping rehabilitation of the “whites” as an adversary, from the mid-60s!
    1. apro 12 February 2020 06: 58 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      one cannot help but recall the creeping rehabilitation of the “whites” as an adversary, from the mid-60s!

      The resident’s adventure film clearly shows this ...
  • Free wind 12 February 2020 07: 02 New
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    Who united the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR ?. More than 100 thousand ghouls fought against the Soviet Union alone, an unfinished immigrant scum. And no one will ever reconcile me with them!
  • Dmitry Potapov 12 February 2020 07: 09 New
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    Oh author, yes you are a "counter!" Not understanding the power of the people’s needs or the people’s reluctance to understand or the power’s inability to start doing something is “cured” by only one revolution, and as for the civil war, its result very eloquently shows who the people were and who really wasn’t mistaken in drawing the future of the people.
    1. kepmor 12 February 2020 07: 30 New
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      in short, the leitmotif of this opus from Kharaluzhny is about this ... to Caesar Caesarean, locksmith to the locksmith ... sit quietly and do not rock the boat ... otherwise, all the goodies ...
  • Bacha 12 February 2020 07: 29 New
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    Amazing unity of the people in the comments! And rightly so! When the government is anti-people, another cannot be expected! And do not call us to humility. You better report to the top about the lessons of the civil war. Although ... When someone sits and champs at the feeder, he is not hungry. It’s important to fill your belly and it doesn’t matter that you can then be at the slaughterhouse.
    1. mat-vey 12 February 2020 07: 51 New
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      Quote: Bacha
      Amazing unity of the people in the comments! And rightly so! When the government is anti-people, another cannot be expected! And do not call us to humility. You better report to the top about the lessons of the civil war. Although ... When someone sits and champs at the feeder, he is not hungry. It’s important to fill your belly and it doesn’t matter that you can then be at the slaughterhouse.

      Well - someone is born to live, but the rest is to serve the economy ... You need to understand ..
  • Pessimist22 12 February 2020 07: 31 New
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    It is necessary to endure when the power bends us, otherwise it will be like in Ukraine smile
  • ANB
    ANB 12 February 2020 07: 41 New
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    Quote: Pessimist22
    It is necessary to endure when the power bends us, otherwise it will be like in Ukraine smile

    Not as in Ukraine will not. If it starts with us, then there will be no Ukraine.
    Although the prerequisites for the undertaking are not yet visible.
  • rocket757 12 February 2020 07: 41 New
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    First of all, it is necessary to recognize that we began to approach literally most recently to a more or less objective and balanced understanding of events and people of that extremely ambiguous period.

    Is it true ?? Well, well, it’s fresh giving .... so many “new facts” have been collected and piled on our “poor heads” .... in a state that a dust bag has been thrown around the head, the society will still remain soooo!
  • don-1500 12 February 2020 07: 42 New
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    The number of sensible comments on this article clearly shows that people see and understand everything. Author soft baker
    1. Sadam 12 February 2020 09: 45 New
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      hmm, too, was surprised by the coherence of the comments which are plus. the author’s urge was clearly not designed for that, although it can be a troll of high quality)))
      ... it seems the postulate <and it will be like in the Ukraine> begins to exhaust itself
  • Plantagenet 12 February 2020 07: 43 New
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    “Melgunov correctly writes:“ The success of the revolution, as all historical experience has shown, always depends not so much on the strength of the explosion as on the weakness of resistance. ”As far back as the 1848th century, all authorities recognized that all street revolutions after XNUMX were over, the era of urban uprisings has passed, the state’s modern armament does not allow the crowd to win street battles. "

    A. Solzhenitsyn "Reflection on the February Revolution"
    1. mat-vey 12 February 2020 07: 47 New
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      Well, the Roman Empire is not bad at all. Any riots were suppressed ... Nothing new is happening in mankind, except for scientific and technological progress ..
    2. Boris55 12 February 2020 08: 06 New
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      Quote: Plantagenet
      all street revolutions after 1848 are over, the era of urban uprisings is over,

      You tell the Ukrainians this and do not read these nonsense Solzhi'nitsa.

      There is a way to change power in a completely evolutionary way, without beating, bloodletting and lowering the country into the Stone Age.

      If then the question of universal illiteracy was acute, today the question of universal managerial illiteracy. Only having mastered the knowledge equal to the knowledge of the "elite", the "elite" will not be able to rule in the old way - to appropriate exorbitantly high salaries for their managerial work, etc.
      1. Plantagenet 12 February 2020 08: 32 New
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        "and you do not read these nonsense Solzhi'nitsa"
        And can I decide without you what to read and what not?
        PS The name of the person with whose opinion you do not agree, do not distort. By this you show your weakness.
      2. Plantagenet 12 February 2020 08: 33 New
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        "You tell the Ukrainians"

        "The success of the revolution, as all historical experience has shown, always depends not so much on the strength of the explosion as on the weakness of the resistance." And what is the contradiction here?
        1. Boris55 12 February 2020 08: 43 New
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          Quote: Plantagenet
          how much is the weakness of resistance. "And what is the contradiction here?

          To this quote - no. My quote is different. Your idol has worked all his life to destroy the USSR. Are you the same, like him, are glad about what happened to the world's first state of workers and peasants? What we have now?

          1. Plantagenet 12 February 2020 08: 50 New
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            "Your idol has worked all his life to destroy the USSR."
            1). Give the words where I wrote that he is my idol? Although I like many of his works, I am forbidden to have idols by my religion.
            2). One man destroyed an entire state. How is this possible? Where were the defenders of this state? Police, gendarmerie, ruling elite.
            3). It seems to me that we are more and more slipping into the flood and moving away from the topic.
            1. Boris55 12 February 2020 08: 57 New
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              Quote: Plantagenet
              Give the words where I wrote that he is my idol?

              If not an idol, then why quote?

              Quote: Plantagenet
              One man destroyed an entire state.

              Not alone. He is one of the few.

              Quote: Plantagenet
              I think we are slipping further into flood

              Me too. When discussing the revolution flowing into the civil war, it is impossible to circumvent the counter-revolution of the 90s.

              We have about 2 thousand, if not more, unresolved problems between the republics of Russia and other territorial associations, incl. if we start, the events in Ukraine will seem to be a showdown for children in the sandbox. This cannot be allowed. We may well change the power that we do not like in an evolutionary way.
              1. Plantagenet 12 February 2020 11: 40 New
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                "If not an idol, then why quote?"
                I completely agree with these words.
              2. Plantagenet 12 February 2020 11: 51 New
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                "We may well change the power that we don’t like, in an evolutionary way."
                It would be interesting to know how.
  • aybolyt678 12 February 2020 08: 01 New
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    It is this lesson that should finally be learned by all those who today are no, no, and they are trying to call Russia to revolution

    there was such a state entity, called the Khazar Kaganate, in which people lived on one principle and the top on another ... He is not. But you should not forget about him .. Therefore, either revolution or evolution is needed. "Let's make Russia Great, again!"
  • parusnik 12 February 2020 08: 11 New
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    Revolution is bad ... Great Britain, the USA, France ... somehow after their revolutions and civil wars it didn’t get any worse ... Probably because my brother didn’t go to his brother ... smile
    1. your1970 12 February 2020 20: 48 New
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      Quote: parusnik
      Great Britain, the USA, France ... somehow after their revolutions and civil wars didn’t get any worse ... Probably because my brother didn’t go to his brother ...
      -That you are watching American films extremely inattentively ...
      Despite all their tolerance - like "a terrible villain and a bloodsucker" on the screen - so the banner of the Confederation looms in the background ...
      after 155 years old (!!!!) - they remember ...
  • Lamata 12 February 2020 08: 23 New
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    And how much, in the author’s opinion, endure, turn up the deadlines, pliz.
  • BAI
    BAI 12 February 2020 08: 42 New
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    Yes, civil war is very bad. But sometimes, in order to remove the ruling regime, ruining the country, there is no other way out.
    1. Lamata 12 February 2020 09: 25 New
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      But somehow I don’t want blood and ruin in Russia again. But this government does not want to understand and do anything. Some sort of handouts are small, crap amendments to the constitution. The opposition, represented by the Communist Party, and especially its top compromisers, Ptaoshkin seems to advocate something, but let's see, in any case, I will be against amendments to the constitution)))
  • DPN
    DPN 12 February 2020 09: 10 New
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    He started not badly, but ended with an appeal to serfdom.
  • Maks1995 12 February 2020 09: 18 New
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    Something went wrong with many.

    Forgot what the reason is the Civil Wars ???

    The old elite, having released power from its hands, simply does not want to peacefully give it to the new one, if there is power.

    But in the 90s there was no strength, it was rotten and repainted by the moment.
    And in 18m there were forces, the military was full of elites, and there is something to lose.
    So do others, amers, yapes, English and francs, Spanish ... - the most famous cases .... sometimes several times ....

    So in our case, Rogozins and K will fight for their 600% profit, they will ....
  • smaug78 12 February 2020 10: 16 New
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    "The British and the Americans and their then allies clearly benefited from the Russian troubles in the early twentieth century. And the point here is not only in the regiments of the interventionists who stomped our land then, but in the collapse of the great empire, which had to be revived in blood and torment." another Samsonov epigon laughing
  • nikvic46 12 February 2020 10: 38 New
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    The road to socialism should be built taking into account the experience of the former state. This is both positive and negative experience. I am opposed to rash decisions. Those who call for the return of the former state take full responsibility for the fate of the people. The outcome of the civil war has already taken place and there is nothing revise them. Everyone probably noticed when foreigners leave the country, the war ends.
  • mavrus 12 February 2020 22: 44 New
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    How much depends on ... what to call.
    Civil War. And immediately questions, and who is to blame, who is right? Are there winners in a civil war?
    But one has only to name in full: Civil War and Intervention, the questions disappear by themselves.
  • Old tanker 13 February 2020 06: 35 New
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    What did the author want to say with this agidka? What they say endure all the bullying of the authorities otherwise unrest and a nightmare of civil war?
    The author did not show any lessons learned or not learned.