Military Technopolis "Era": an attempt to catch up in microelectronics


Photo: era-tehnopolis.ru


How we all lost


Import substitution is a key trend of recent times that seems to remain so for the coming years, if not decades. This is especially critical for the defense industry, and especially for microelectronics.

According to the most conservative estimates, Russia lags behind key market players from the USA and South Korea for at least 25 years. For many positions, even in the defense industry, we were forced to purchase foreign components of the second-class Industry standard, which, in particular, operate in the temperature range from minus 40 degrees to plus 85 degrees. Military-level equipment, in which both radiation resistance is higher and the temperature range is much wider, if they sold us, then with big reservations. Nevertheless, only the defense enterprises of the Russian Federation bought back in 2011 not the most advanced electronic components abroad for an impressive 10 billion rubles. The famous Glonass-M 75-80% consists of foreign components. As it turned out, the roots of this sad trend were laid back in the Soviet Union.


Radio "Micro". Photo: azainer.livejournal.com

In the 60-70s, the USSR was, if not a world leader, then one of the three major manufacturers of electronic components for both the defense sector and civilian consumption. At the same time, the total cost of components was much lower than the global one. For example, the Electronpribor association in the early 70s produced powerful world-class transistors at a price of only $ 1, despite the fact that in the West such equipment was several times more expensive. In many respects, this was achieved by the complete self-sufficiency of domestic manufacturers: if foreign components were purchased, they were quickly and effectively replaced by Soviet counterparts.

A case in point was developed by the Zelenograd engineers developed in the 60s by the Micro radio, which at that time had no analogues in miniature in the world. Micro has become a good export product and image product - Nikita Khrushchev often presented it to top officials of foreign countries. A single-crystal 16-bit micro-computers from the Leningrad Scientific and Technological Bureau were also one of a kind: in the United States, then, the corresponding competitors were emerging. The semiconductor industry was supervised and sponsored by many departments: the Ministry of Defense Industry, the Ministry of Communications Industry, the Ministry of Electronic Industry and others. Scientific and industrial personnel were brought up in the country. By 1976 alone, under the auspices of Zelenograd NPO Scientific Center, over 39 thousand people worked in 80 enterprises. What is the reason for the current deplorable state of our electronic industry? Firstly, up to 95% of all products of all Soviet high-level electronics were consumed by the military together with the space sector. This focus on defense orders and the actual monopoly of the Ministry of Defense played a cruel joke on the industry.


Micro radio and modern analogue. Photo: azainer.livejournal.com

Around the beginning of the 80s, a semi-crazy idea appeared about thoughtlessly copying foreign components for radio electronics. This was caused by the disbelief of both politicians and the military in the potential of Soviet scientists, in their ability to create something new. The army was afraid that if we do not copy now, then it is not a fact that tomorrow we will have something, at least similar to the Western one. And this will directly affect the combat effectiveness. So, by the method of “reverse engineering”, the initiative in developing their own ideas in specialized research institutes and NGOs was suppressed. At the same time, the Ministry of Electronics frantically tried to catch up in the 80s and saturate the domestic civilian market with high-tech products: computers, video and audio tape recorders. This, of course, the right decision would finally allow us to move away from the dictates of the Ministry of Defense and get resources for the further development of the industry. But production capacities were not enough at all, although they initially provided production growth in 1985-1987 in the region of 25% per year. It came at a high price - by distracting the mass of specialists from innovative developments in the element base, which sharply slowed down the further development of microelectronics in the country.


Photo: era-tehnopolis.ru

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the situation was aggravated by the indifference of the country's leadership to the problems of domestic microelectronics, as well as the actual opening of borders for competitive foreign technology. It was possible to collect the destroyed only in the 2000s, when the specialized holdings Radioelectronic Technologies and Roselektronika were created. They united under themselves many semi-living enterprises that had previously produced electronic components for the Soviet Union. However, they are also stepping on an old rake - up to 75% of all orders come from government agencies and the military. Civilians prefer cheaper foreign equipment, even if it is in some way inferior in consumer qualities. A difficult situation has developed with the import substitution of electronic components of domestic weapons after the introduction of Western sanctions. It turned out that many weapons were simply not designed for larger and energetically "gluttonous" Russian microcircuits - they had to rework design documentation. And, of course, domestic high-tech components seriously raised the final cost of weapons models. Still, a single assembly is much more expensive than a conveyor.

There is hope for the Micron group of companies in Zelenograd, which is privately owned and controlled by Sistema. It was at Mikron that the first in Russia were able to master the production of microcircuits with a topology of 180 nm (bought from STM), later sorted out from 90 nm, and six years ago they independently developed a technology for 65-nanometer topology. So far, the only serial in the CIS. At the same time, in the West they are already working on a topology of 5-7 nm. Paradoxically, in Russia there was not a sufficiently wide market for such domestic equipment - almost everyone prefers to buy foreign analogues from manufacturers that have been known for more than a dozen years. For this reason, Russian developers cannot offer low prices - production volumes do not allow to reach large circulations. And artificially dumping does not give a material condition. A vivid example with the Russian Elbrus-401 computer running on the Russian 4-core Elbrus-4K microprocessor with a clock frequency of 800 MHz and a peak performance of 50 GFlops, which cost in 2015 ... 229 thousand rubles! Now compare this with the Intel Core i5-2500K processor with a performance of 118 GFlops and a cost of 25 thousand rubles in the same year.

Era intervenes


The well-known military innovation technology park "Era" in the near future will attempt to at least partially offset the gap, which is becoming more and more critical every year. A Center for Technological Competencies is being created, whose tasks will include the development of electronic components for military and dual use. Nail Khabibulin, Deputy Head of Technopolis for Innovative Development, claims that by 2026, as a result of the Center’s work, Russia will have microprocessor production technologies with topologies up to 28 nm. Compare this with the western level of microelectronics at the present time, and you will understand that the work of the Center will only allow maintaining the existing status quo, in which we are always catching up.


Photo: era-tehnopolis.ru

Among the innovations of the Competence Center, the so-called verticalization is singled out, uniting companies involved in the development of an elemental microelectronic base, creators of algorithms and the Era technopolis unit. Actually, this is very similar to the Soviet model for the joint design of integrated circuits, which were proposed by the Ministry of Electronic Industry in the 80s. Then, the circuitry stage of creating the integrated circuit was carried out by the customer (in our time, the Era technopolis), and the stage of developing the topology and design was already assigned to the enterprises of the Ministry. Incidentally, this was later adopted in the West by many private corporations, which ensured a breakthrough growth rate in electrical engineering.

Khabibulin further explains that all project participants will benefit from the implementation of an independent channel for transferring foreign technologies to select the most breakthrough ones in terms of application for domestic weapons systems. This veiled wording hides a very simple idea - we are so behind that we have to collect special centers just for the mythical transfer of technology in microelectronics. How are you going to do this? None of the leading powers now directly sell us military-class equipment, even China. The materials will not be published in the open press sources about the most advanced defense microelectronics technologies. And the rest of the information is already available to almost anyone who has a subscription and the Internet. In Era technopolis, this technique was even given a name - reverse engineering for solving specialized tasks. It is very similar to "reverse engineering", which actually buried the microelectronics of the USSR in the 80s. Then the initiative also came from the military and officials.


Photo: era-tehnopolis.ru

In this situation, it is difficult to say what needs to be done. However historical experience tells what should not be done in order to avoid global problems. A simple “creative rethinking” of Western experience, firstly, will never give us an advantage in the race, it will only reduce the gap, and secondly, it will educate a whole generation of engineers and scientists who are unable to do anything except copying. Meanwhile, a possible way out of the difficult situation that has arisen may be turning to fundamental science, which we have always been at the highest level. Nevertheless, it is in this plane that the most modern developments lie that have not yet gone beyond the boundaries of laboratories and from which the vultures of secrecy have not yet been removed. These are projects to replace silicon, for example, graphene, silicene, and phosphorus. Of course, the stimulation of work in these areas will not look so pompous as the organization of the Era technopark, but at least it will give us a chance to “step over generations” in the global microelectronics industry.
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  1. Mavrikiy 13 February 2020 06: 00 New
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    Military Technopolis "Era": an attempt to catch up in microelectronics
    Yes, I can’t hear about his achievements.
    As it turned out, the roots of this sad trend were laid back in the Soviet Union.
    It’s the USSR’s fault, always like that. Like hands from .... and a head to wear a cap, so remember birthmarks - the USSR.
    In the 60-70s, the USSR was, if not a world leader, then one of the three major manufacturers of electronic components for the defense sector (it doesn’t stand out!) Oh, there were achievements there.
    1. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 06: 36 New
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      Well, it's nonetheless true. It is foolish to deny it only on the grounds that the USSR wants to defend with or without.
    2. Ka-52 13 February 2020 07: 06 New
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      In the 60-70s, the USSR was, if not a world leader, then one of the three major manufacturers of electronic components for the defense sector (it doesn’t stand out!) Oh, there were achievements there.

      and in the early 80s there was no longer the USSR? For reference (if you suddenly forgot or were not born at that time), the USSR ceased to exist on December 26, 1991, when the not-so-legitimate notorious Council of the Republics turned it into an ersatz formation under the acronym CIS. That is, between these dates was another 20 years of painstaking "work" to destroy the technological and scientific potential. Over the past couple of decades, much has been destroyed, not just microelectronics.
      1. Mavrikiy 13 February 2020 09: 55 New
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        Will we be friends with the head or what? In the 70s ahead of the rest, and in the 80s behind, does this happen in a trend? Only when crowbar on the spine. Remind you (if suddenly forgotten or not yet born at that time) or CHIP sparks, all the actors in the collapse of the USSR were already in power, although not in the first roles, but they were actively throwing sand into the axle boxes.
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 10: 59 New
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          Quote: Mavrikiy
          In the 70s ahead of the rest
          At the leader level.

          Quote: Mavrikiy
          and in the 80s behind
          Behind the leader.

          Quote: Mavrikiy
          it happens in a trend?
          Only this happens.
        2. Ka-52 13 February 2020 11: 47 New
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          Will we be friends with the head or what?

          so you ask yourself this rhetorical question correctly. Because it would be worth the lesson (or remember) that in the 70s there was a strategy to maintain military parity with the United States by any means. And after 85g. The United States unexpectedly became for us the "leader of a democratic world."
          Only when crowbar on the spine.

          this scrap was called "restructuring". Get back to reality.
          all the protagonists of the collapse of the USSR were already in power, although not in the lead

          the prerequisites, stages and consequences of perestroika have already been described and chewed in hundreds of publications. You fell out of the nest.
    3. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 09: 11 New
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      Quote: Mavrikiy
      It's the USSR's fault, always like that.
      And who is to blame, the 90s, as always? In the 90s we already entered with the largest microcircuits in the world, and the practice of tearing was so wide that Western developers left messages on the crystals in Cyrillic.
  2. lucul 13 February 2020 06: 03 New
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    The less we drive our raw materials abroad, the less will the West have opportunities for excellence, including in electronics.
    1. Mavrikiy 13 February 2020 06: 12 New
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      Quote: lucul
      The less we drive our raw material resources abroad, the less opportunities for superiority will be in the West.

      Not so clear. We need our own to create and develop production and science. Not to copy them, but to look for alternative directions, in everything. Then MS will again be 3 rubles.
      1. Ka-52 13 February 2020 07: 14 New
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        We need our own to create and develop production and science. Not to copy them, but to look for alternative directions, in everything.

        The article rightly describes the main problem of this issue: application and demand. In the absence of demand (there is no stimulation from the consumer market) there is only one financing option - the budget. And this is not the best way of technological development (especially in our country, when only 25% of investments reach the "Kuhlmann"). It is easy to say - "let's develop science and production." Only implementing this slogan in the spirit of Gorbachev is not easy
        1. astepanov 13 February 2020 11: 06 New
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          a possible way out of the difficult situation that has arisen may be an appeal to fundamental science, which we have always been on top. Still, it is in this plane that the most modern developments lie
          . Then I agree: it was. It was, but it all came out. In the nineties, doctors of sciences went to the markets to sell detergent, and not many of them returned. And Roscosmos is in a fever not only because of underfunding or Rogozin’s personal qualities, but also because of the quality of personnel. The same can be said about our science as a whole (except, perhaps, political science and theology, and even economists divorced like fleas on a stray dog. 25 years of lag is a monstrous term. It's sad.
    2. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 06: 38 New
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      a rather surprising statement that I’d like to ask what you are basing it on and how it is interconnected) for example, we are the largest gas consumers in the world and sell just a little more than 30 percent of the gas produced. if we reduce it, let’s say up to 20, how will this affect the possibility of superiority?)
      1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 08: 14 New
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        Everything is just like firewood. We DO NOT LET US TO GAS MARKET ON THE MARKET - the West is simply not able to - it will bend itself. But in the microelectronics market - and so the crisis of overproduction, it is no secret that the market is overstocked and the product life is artificially reduced. By the way, a typical corporate conspiracy. And now they are not letting us into this market.
        Well here we are fools ourselves. Carried out for example Formosa screwdriver - but in the Russian Federation assembly of boards, why not support the state? You look, and would have grown to what. And without the support of the state - they got burned out, well, Vasya Pupkin came, looking - there is a Russian one 25% cheaper, there is a Korean one, but I know this company, a little more expensive - Vasya will buy the one that he knows.
        PiSi: by the way, we have to start from this point - the assembly is localized. In general, this is so. As for the development, the author is wrong, it was a competitive base in the early 80s, now there is NO base, so there is only reverse engineering, there are simply no options. And let them learn to improve on the go - this is a research institute. So for example, China has risen, or Japan, or, suddenly - the Soviet Union under Stalin
        1. Kalmar 13 February 2020 10: 21 New
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          Quote: Cowbra
          DO NOT LET US OVER THE GAS TO THE MARKET - The West is simply not able to - it will bend itself

          Currently, LNG trade is actively developing, so Russia's role in the natural gas market has recently been decreasing. So, alas, it will not bend.

          Quote: Cowbra
          And in the microelectronics market - and so the crisis of overproduction

          Consumer - maybe. In the corporate sector - I don’t know. The complexity of software products and the volume of processed data are growing rapidly, and behind them - the demand for computing power.

          Quote: Cowbra
          And now they’re not letting us into this market.

          They don’t let me go right? This is a normal market with a fairly high competition: with open arms we are not waiting for him; you need something to win a share in it.

          Quote: Cowbra
          Carried out for example Formosa screwdriver - but in the Russian Federation assembly of boards, why not support the state?

          Damn him with "support" would not interfere. I used to remember that they used to be wise with customs duties, which is why importing a finished computer is cheaper than importing its components separately. As a result, Russian assemblers like iRU and MaxSelect automatically became uncompetitive.

          Quote: Cowbra
          Now there is NO base, so only reverse engineering, just no options

          I recall Chinese wisdom: if you can copy the master, then you are the master yourself. Alas, we really have very little experience now, we need to borrow and (subsequently) improve someone else's.
          1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 10: 58 New
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            Quote: Kalmar
            LNG trade is actively developing

            "Bends". How many leading bankruptcies have been announced?
            Quote: Kalmar
            The complexity of software products and the volume of processed data are growing rapidly, and behind them - the demand for computing power.

            Household in performance has always overtaken the office, and even more so - the production one (I do not take highly specialized supercomputers)! And the growth of power-demand - artificial, for example Word XP and it 2019 in terms of functionality for the average office - are the same, system requirements - at times - artificial aging, corporate conspiracy.
            I agree with the rest.
            1. Kalmar 13 February 2020 11: 16 New
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              Quote: Cowbra
              "Bends". How many leading bankruptcies have been announced?

              I don’t know how much? And then there are forecasts that the share of LNG in gas trade can reach 50% by 2035.

              Quote: Cowbra
              Household in performance has always overtaken the office, and even more so - the production one (I do not take highly specialized supercomputers)!

              Well, this is what is considered "household", "office" and "production". I’m more about supercomputer servers that serve banking systems, telecoms, cloud solutions, etc. This market is growing rapidly.
              1. Nastia makarova 13 February 2020 12: 03 New
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                we have another 50% who have XP))))
        2. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 11: 02 New
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          Quote: Cowbra
          But in the microelectronics market - and so the crisis of overproduction, it is no secret that the market is overstocked and the product life is artificially reduced.
          Surely you have somewhere in a closet, garage or at the cottage dusting an ancient "pentium" with a pot-bellied monitor, which was not replaced at all because of a failure from an artificially reduced resource, and you can still turn it on and load some kind of Windows -98, and the word of those times will start on it as if nothing had happened.
          1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 11: 09 New
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            Surely you are now plowing on your computer. loading it at least 80 percent. Surely you use all the features that are crammed into your browser or Windows ... What is the aging cycle? So you called about 20 years. and what do marketers do? 5 years ago, it’s already difficult to find a motherboard for the processor. Or an example with ever-changing connectors on iPhones - generally canonical! So that every year they also buy new accessories for the phone, although the old ones have not developed a resource
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 11: 30 New
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              What is there with the browser - did not look. Perhaps this should be asked from people who use only a browser on computers. I moved to the new PC from the old one because I wanted to play new games, and I can definitely say that it gives the graphics much better than the previous one. Where is the imposition or artificial reduction of the resource? The old PC did not stop working, games with less complex graphics on it did not stop running either.

              Quote: Cowbra
              5 years ago, it’s already difficult to find a motherboard for the processor.
              And do you think this is a conspiracy? And not the logistic flows, which are trivial for sales and do not deliver to the warehouse what maybe 1.5 people will need, or maybe nobody will need?
              1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 11: 55 New
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                So, we came to a simple thing - all that needs new iron is toys. But really - more on why! By the way. this is exactly how technology aging is accelerated - manufacturers invest in toys. So I’ll explain to you, a gamer, that the normal level VR system was already at zero, by 2010 it had been worked out, but the manufacturers themselves turned it corny - it did not require such powerful hardware, and the effect of presence was several times higher. than with any graphics - but on the monitor. It is not profitable! It’s better to hang gamers ’ears on the ears about the next resolution and gigaflops that are urgently needed!
                I'm not talking about that. what exactly these justify why office software is eating so much now - after all, there is new hardware, it must be loaded! With little needless. And polzak - he's stupid. still won’t understand why. Artificial demand.
                Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                And not the logistic flows, which are trivial for sales and do not deliver to the warehouse what maybe 1.5 people will need, or maybe nobody will need?

                Why has the connector changed? The same intellect changes them every year - without this, in any way, every year according to the revolution? Under the same can not be released? And there will be no problems with logistics ... Exclusively for that. so that it was gamers - they changed everything at once, increase turnover.
                1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 12: 16 New
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                  Quote: Cowbra
                  It is not profitable!
                  You do not understand anything in profit. If there was a real product, then it could be sold to real people for real money, and not figure out how powerful iron can be pushed into it, on the contrary - saving on iron would help expand the audience. And what really happened with early VR, I remember very well - VFX-1 with a resolution of 263x230, which was impossible to use without moral and physical nausea, and therefore it did not take off as a commercial product.

                  Quote: Cowbra
                  I'm not talking about that. what exactly these justify why office software now eats so much
                  Is the old Word taken from you?

                  Quote: Cowbra
                  Exclusively for that. so that it was gamers - they changed everything at once, increase turnover.
                  Did you need to change the processor exactly one year later, right before the release of the new connector, because last year the Word slows down, but the new one is gone?
                  1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 12: 42 New
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                    You do not understand anything in profit.
                    laughing
                    Speak! Also tell me that, for example, the termination of technical support of the same Windows 7, on which to this day 30% of the world sits, is done because the user’s product does not suit you!
                    YOU do not understand anything in profit, if you do a thing that lasts 20 years - there will be less profit, although the goods will turn out to be good. For that, selling junk for 1 year every year is more profitable. And without moral and physical nausea FOR WORK use AutoCAD - old.

                    Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                    Did you need to change the processor exactly one year later, right before the release of the new connector, because last year the Word slows down, but the new one is gone?

                    Stop demagoguery. you understand very well. that for work, a computer of the productivity that is needed, for example, by a storekeeper or secretary in an office, simply cannot be bought right now, performance alone is an order of magnitude higher, and it is unreasonable.
                    And do not go deep - once again, how do you explain the artificial leapfrog with connectors, except for my version? Or the ultimate imposition of Win10 & No options? There are no complaints from users. initiative from the manufacturer - ARTIFICIAL demand. It is the definition of a concept.
                    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 13: 03 New
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                      Quote: Cowbra
                      Stop demagoguery. you understand very well. that for work, a computer of the productivity that is needed, for example, by a storekeeper or secretary in an office, simply cannot be bought right now, performance alone is an order of magnitude higher, and it is unreasonable.
                      Such a computer called the Raspberry Pi, costs $ 10-20, and runs Chrome perfectly with Google documents. If someone buys a Core i5 secretary instead - well, I don’t know why he does it, that’s his problem.
                    2. Kalmar 13 February 2020 17: 34 New
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                      Quote: Cowbra
                      Also tell me that, for example, the termination of technical support of the same Windows 7, on which to this day 30% of the world sits, is done because the user’s product does not suit you!

                      Support costs money. Pulling an old product ad infinitum is expensive and unpleasant, very straightforward. Engaged, I know. It is always easier to maintain one version than several.

                      Quote: Cowbra
                      if you make a thing that lasts 20 years - there will be less profit, although the product will be good

                      I wonder how then the hammers are sold? )))

                      It all depends on the segment. IT is developing dynamically, new opportunities and, accordingly, Wishlist appear; Computers become obsolete, not even physically, but morally. I will give an example. Here lies at my place the ancient Macintosh of the 97th, it seems, of the year of release. It is completely working, even the battery holds. But, let’s say, you won’t get on the Internet with him: there are no suitable interfaces and connectors. Only RJ-11, but dialup is no longer in use. There is no USB either, you cannot connect peripherals. How much use is it to him?

                      Quote: Cowbra
                      a computer of the performance that is needed, for example, by a storekeeper or secretary in an office - you just don’t buy it now

                      Come on? The budget segment has not gone anywhere: Celeron / Pentium D from Intel, Atom from it, Athlon from AMD. If you are ready to step beyond the x86 platform, then there are a whole bunch of solutions on ARM to choose from.
                2. Kalmar 13 February 2020 12: 33 New
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                  Quote: Cowbra
                  all that new iron is for is toys

                  In the consumer segment - in general, yes. Whistles / farts, needed, for the most part, for beauty, require resources. In other areas, everything is not so clear.

                  Quote: Cowbra
                  I'm not talking about that. what exactly these justify why office software is eating so much now - after all, there is new hardware, it must be loaded!

                  They simply squeeze new lotions and prettiness into it (you need to sell it somehow). If you are not comfortable, you can always use office suites easier.

                  Quote: Cowbra
                  Why has the connector changed? The same intellect changes them every year - without this, in any way, every year according to the revolution? Under the same can not be released?

                  The internal architecture of the processor is changing: there is nowhere to grow in frequency, you have to redraw the gut. From here, the required number of legs for the processor changes. Hence the new connector.
                  1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 12: 46 New
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                    Quote: Kalmar
                    The internal processor architecture is changing

                    Forgive me, in order to simplify the logistics, and in general the principle of block architecture, on which IBeM has risen, it is logical to leave the socket the same, and re-create the internal architecture as follows. so that the socket remains one. Roughly speaking. put all changes on the processor.
                    This is exactly what is done from "the same, but with pearl buttons"
                    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 13: 14 New
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                      Quote: Cowbra
                      This is exactly what is done from "the same, but with pearl buttons"
                      Listen, none of the millions of buyers changes the processor without changing everything else (inevitably entailing a change in mother), except for 1.5 enthusiasts picking in hardware. The money that is laid into the production of various connectors for millions of computers (bought once and not opened until death) with money that can be milked from these 1.5 enthusiasts is completely incommensurable. It's just that these 1.5 enthusiasts are sitting on the same sites "about technology", complaining to each other, and therefore it seems to them that every one of them like them is.
                    2. Kalmar 13 February 2020 13: 24 New
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                      Quote: Cowbra
                      it is logical to leave the socket the same, and redesign the internal architecture to do so. so that the socket remains one

                      If possible, they do so.
                      1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 14: 14 New
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                        Examples? I will not mention a single one. And you yourself understand that changing architecture once a year is complete nonsense. From a technological point of view. So - pure marketing. Well, I talked about this
                      2. Kalmar 13 February 2020 17: 21 New
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                        Quote: Cowbra
                        pure marketing

                        This is of course. Where nowadays without him. But not clean.

                        Quote: Cowbra
                        And you yourself understand that once a year changing architecture is complete nonsense

                        Why? It used to be possible to drive processors in frequency and get more frisky versions without global alterations. Now it doesn’t work anymore, it’s impossible to radically raise the frequencies. We have to dodge, optimize the architecture, add new instructions, etc.

                        Then, a change "inside" the processor may require reciprocal modifications on the part of the motherboard chipset, i.e. old MPs become incompatible. Changing the socket here is even useful: you can’t insert the "new" percent into the old incompatible board.
          2. Nightmare-1966 14 February 2020 12: 37 New
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            I once saw on TV the performance of one of the leaders of Intel, so he said bluntly - it is profitable and just necessary for us that users change the system unit to a new model of the board and processor ONCE IN TWO YEARS! Nekhilo, right?
            Here they are trying to arrange everything so that the iron becomes obsolete as quickly as possible!
            Truly, take the same standard packages like "office" and so on - have they really become more functional in proportion to how much they are eating resources, updating the version ?!
            Yes nifiga! All the tasks that are usually used, in fact, can provide software packages as much as almost twenty years ago!
            The only thing where you really need to update the platform to increase computing power is 3D graphics, and more precisely - games. All the rest of the functionality is perfectly done on computers with the same socket-775, as I have here - E5440 is bent and 8GB frames from vin-10 on SSD!
  • Same lech 13 February 2020 06: 03 New
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    We finally realized ... that's what the Anglo-Saxon sanctions are doing ... they have begun to develop their own ... as if not to go crazy with photonic computers on new physical principles, this is the near future.
  • Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 06: 05 New
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    As it turned out, the roots of this sad trend were laid back in the Soviet Union
    Late USSR, it is important to know.
    It is very similar to "reverse engineering", which actually buried the microelectronics of the USSR in the 80s.
    No need to blame the death of the USSR microelectronics for just one of the methods of industrial intelligence. The beginning was laid by an administrative strategic mistake (or maybe a crime), and the destruction of the USSR became the final highlight.
    1. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 06: 43 New
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      but not in the late at all. the very model of building the economy was so arranged. without competition and access to world achievements.
      1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 08: 26 New
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        Leave these stupid stories about "miraculous competition" and "access to world achievements" for the Echo of Moscow, all this now exists, but there is practically no domestic electronics, but it was like that under the Union!
        1. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 08: 34 New
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          Well, of course, the laws of economics are stupid stories))) USSR defenders should already understand that saying this looks very sorry. You see, this means it began many, many years ago. and developed all these years. some of course there was. everything was in the same vein. they saw a VCR bought from the Japanese a license for the plans they scored and stamped for years) though in the conditions of competition these very Japanese all these years to remain leaders keep making more and more new models and new technologies are developing we all the same produce VM 12))) why do we need new models? and these will buy)
        2. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 10: 41 New
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          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          all this is now, but there is practically no domestic electronics
          Do not confuse the necessary conditions and sufficient.
          1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 10: 47 New
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            Oh, sorry, I forgot about the will of the country's leadership to recreate industry, is this a sufficient condition?
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            "miraculous competition" and "access to world achievements"
            What conditions do you think?
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 10: 57 New
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              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              What conditions do you think?
              Necessary, but not sufficient.

              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              Oh, sorry, I forgot about the will of the country's leadership to recreate industry, is this a sufficient condition?
              No. Now there is a will, but there is no industry, there are only some ridiculous "technology parks", "skolkovo", "Angstroms-t" and so on, which have not been produced at all, which do not give the result that management expects of them.
              1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 11: 03 New
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                Quote: Vyacheslav Viktorovich
                Now there is a will, but no industry

                How so, and the will and competition with access to world achievements are miraculous, and even the most advanced, capitalist system, but there is no industry? Maybe people like carstorm 11 (Dmitry) are in vain driving the USSR and its economy?
                1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 11: 06 New
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                  Quote: Vladimir_2U
                  How so, and the will and competition with access to world achievements are miraculous, and even the most advanced, capitalist system, but there is no industry?
                  Because there are not enough conditions. In those countries of capitalism where they exist, industry works just fine, winning competition and not demanding exemptions, from which there is no toilet paper in the store, and then the country breaks up.
                  1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 11: 34 New
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                    Clearly, beautiful words bearing little meaning.
                    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 11: 57 New
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                      Just a statement of facts.
  • Amateur 13 February 2020 06: 47 New
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    In the 60-70s, the USSR was, if not a world leader, then one of the top three manufacturers of electronic components for both the defense sector and civilian consumption.

    Who now remembers the CoCom (Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls), which served as a "yeast" for the growth of Nokia, which specialized in the resale or semi-screwdriver assembly of high-tech electronic components, the export of which was prohibited in the USSR. And a significant part of the Finnish economy was based on the re-export of high-tech products to the USSR.
    Money doesn't smell (Vespasian)
  • Snail N9 13 February 2020 06: 57 New
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    Another crazy idea - they still can’t move away from the image of the "Silicon Valley" without understanding at all how it generally "works" with the Americans. They think that they will fence something around, set up Euro-hangars there, drag Western equipment bought there at a hedge of heaps of mediators, and drive “especially gifted” people there and they will create “breakthrough technologies, catch up and overtake” and other nishtyaks there. in the USSR, everything new was born at the forefront of entire industries where the work of research institutes, design bureaus, pilot production, etc. where technologies and serial production were worked out, etc. And now, geniuses of "management" think in terms of "James Bond books" - need to adjust, such as homegrown “silicon valleys” called “technopolises” and breakthrough technologies will sprinkle like from a cornucopia and “Russia forward!” Aha.
    1. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 07: 54 New
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      you are a little mistaken. it’s a military technopolis and everything there is imprisoned for this. Silicon Valley has nothing to do with it. The goal of the ERA Military Innovation Technopolis is to ensure the search, development and implementation of breakthrough technologies in the defense sector. Close attention is paid to educational programs for young scientists in the ranks of the Russian Army. The location of Technopolis on the coast creates comfortable conditions for work and life. Do you understand? Defense industry. to grow for her. that would be in sight. if all this works, then the technologies themselves will appear.
      1. Snail N9 13 February 2020 08: 08 New
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        Yeah. And closer to the production centers, which these technologies will master, what does it? Type- "uncomfortable"? For a long time, everyone understood that all these "techno-policies", "techno-companies" and other "amusements" of "effective managers" on the one hand are a good bench for a "drank" type of "development", and on the other hand, a "sinecure" -the initial springboard for the further career of the children of the "military intelligentsia"
        1. carstorm 11 13 February 2020 08: 12 New
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          young people tend to demand comfort now. this is one of the types of motivation) let's say imagine try what you yourself choose to start living on the seashore or for example in Novosibirsk or elsewhere.
          1. Erich 13 February 2020 08: 49 New
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            I doubt that in Russia the state will be able to provide a level of comfort higher than Western companies))
          2. Efgen 14 February 2020 05: 29 New
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            There is a scientific school in Novosibirsk. For those who really work in science, it is much more expensive than the coast of even the warm sea.
        2. Servisinzhener 13 February 2020 09: 19 New
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          Krasnodar plant "Saturn" or "Selena" than you do not have production centers?
  • rocket757 13 February 2020 07: 32 New
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    Military Technopolis "Era": an attempt to catch up in microelectronics

    Call, do not call .... it is necessary to do, restore, the "chain" from the education \ training of engineering, workers, experimental production and, as the final goal, capacities for the mass production of electronic components and other necessary things!
    In short, you will not be full of plans alone, but by yourself, i.e. business will NEVER do it yourself! for objective, for him, reasons.
    As they like to say now (and you just have to do it), a state program, leadership, resources are needed to restore what has been destroyed.
    1. Erich 13 February 2020 08: 50 New
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      Business, by the way, is not obliged to "do something." He does when it is profitable, everything else is a matter for the state))
      1. rocket757 13 February 2020 10: 28 New
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        Business MUST be responsible, in front of the country in which it operates ... this, of course, is a dream, but ....
        our goal, to make a fairy tale come true!
        Any movement should be in both directions, otherwise it is called LIGHT.
        1. Erich 13 February 2020 12: 44 New
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          The essence of the business is profit. It’s great if this happens without breaking the law. More business does not owe anything to anyone. And about the movement: “no one owes anything to anyone”, in general “must” is a rather harmful word in the lexicon)) they want to RUN, let them RUN.
          1. rocket757 13 February 2020 13: 41 New
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            Quote: Erich
            let them RUN.

            If they "let them run," then the nave is "looming" here ... right there, only without our resources and everything else ..
            1. Erich 13 February 2020 14: 00 New
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              I suppose, while it’s profitable, they’ll be "looming", it will not be profitable that they will "run"))
      2. Kalmar 13 February 2020 10: 33 New
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        Quote: Erich
        Business, by the way, is not obliged to "do something." He does when it is profitable for him

        In fact, this is one of the main tasks of the state - to make it become profitable. And then the competition is high, the risks are very high, it is difficult to attract investment. Plus, our traditional national troubles in terms of interaction with the authorities, law enforcement agencies and the judicial system.
        1. rocket757 13 February 2020 13: 46 New
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          Quote: Kalmar
          In fact, this is one of the main tasks of the state - to do so,

          That's right, don’t interfere with business development, support, provide clear rules of relations ... especially when it acts for the good of the country, it doesn’t forget itself! This is normal. Those. two-way traffic. And if only for yourself .. then right there, where they all run, then.
  • Lamata 13 February 2020 08: 08 New
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    There would be the opinion of Comrade Midshipman to hear
  • Warrior MorePhoto 13 February 2020 08: 38 New
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    And the fabulous only spoke about galoshes ...
    1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 40 New
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      Yeah, and Gagarin is unclear what flew into space.
  • Nitarius 13 February 2020 08: 57 New
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    author .. not noah! there are things that you don’t know)))) yes there is a lag .. but here’s the question .. but where did the USA make such a breakthrough in electronics .. if they hadn’t communized the achievements of the USSR! .. but let’s imagine that .. that the USSR specially merged it in order to drive the west into a dead end branch of development .. didn’t think so? .. these games are long gone ...! and the principle of deception has not been canceled! .. so don’t whine you just like that! difficulties yes! .. but 95 percent of the world, only our people can do ... nature is so arranged! not creators in the west ... they only rob! it happened for centuries!
    1. ML-334 13 February 2020 09: 32 New
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      Nikolaich to the core!
    2. Erich 13 February 2020 14: 02 New
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      Listen to you, so everything that was invented in the world has roots from the USSR and nothing else))) It's funny))
  • UserGun 13 February 2020 09: 06 New
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    Quote: carstorm 11
    if all this works, then technology on their own will appear.


    Avonokak ...

    Did you hear enough of our fairytale leader again? Although what can I say here and so it can be seen by the speed. "Breakthrough", "import substitution", etc. etc.
  • Ruby 13 February 2020 09: 15 New
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    On one military commissar and state orders, you will never raise anything. All Asian component companies initially focused on the mass market. Result on the face.
    Our company is associated with the production of electronics. So I forgot when I saw at least something on the market from a domestic manufacturer. Banal resistors have forgotten how to do it. And if we do, then everything stands like a plane and goes exclusively to the military commissar. But the state does not sponsor me, I have to earn money myself, hence the choice is certainly not in favor of the domestic manufacturer.
    The entire mass component base now comes from the Chinese, and the whole world is forced to reckon with this, and America with the same Japan is no exception. They brought their plants there.
    The goods come with the labels of the Japanese, Americans, Koreans, and everything is done in China.
    1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 09: 31 New
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      Quote: Yakut
      The entire mass component base now comes from the Chinese, and the whole world is forced to reckon with this, and America with the same Japan is no exception. They brought their plants there.
      The goods come with the labels of the Japanese, Americans, Koreans, and everything is done in China.
      Intel, Samsung have their own semiconductor plants. Those who do not have bulk orders from TSMC in Taiwan.
      1. Ruby 13 February 2020 11: 16 New
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        Factories can be anyone's. But in fact, I have not seen components manufactured not in China for a very long time. The same Samsung LEDs come from Korea, but the packaging is made in China. Almost all of the casing in fact has long been there. The process is relatively simple and fully automated. And several years will pass and they will have all the main production of chips. And look what the Chinese government does for this in terms of supporting its manufacturers, and what ours does. One of the measures is that if there is a purely Chinese analogue of any component, then the same Samsung, even made in China, will be subject to a very serious duty.
        And yes, look at electronics manufacturing equipment. You can’t find a Russian soldering iron already, to say nothing of automated lines.
        1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 11: 44 New
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          Quote: Yakut
          The process is relatively simple and fully automated. And several years will pass and they will have all the main production of chips.
          No, it’s called https://ru.rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slippery_klon, "Today you play jazz, and tomorrow you will sell your homeland." One does not follow from the other. Exactly because wrapping is a simple process and organized in the nearest basement by the forces of yesterday's collective farmers, it is much more likely that it will go somewhere to Malaysia than that semiconductor production will grow on its base, requiring billions of investments and decades to create. And what on the case is written the place of packing, and not the manufacture of the crystal - well, so you check or go?
          1. Ruby 13 February 2020 12: 04 New
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            I track the situation with the production of LEDs. Not the hardest component, however ...
            Five to seven years ago, almost all of China worked on Taiwan crystals. Packing is where they started. For better or worse, this was the second question. They earned money from this, and did not eat it, but invested.
            Today, most large Chinese manufacturers have their own crystal production, and in quality they do not lose much to the same Koreans, but at a price decently lower. And tomorrow they will begin to buy up Americans, Europeans and others. And they will not start, but have already begun. Osram, more precisely, their semiconductor production is already in fact Chinese, and not only it.
            1. Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 12: 49 New
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              OSRAM just moved to Malaysia.))) Https://www.ledsmagazine.com/manufacturing-services-testing/article/16700601/osram-opens-440m-malaysian-plant-amid-worlds-widening-clamor-for- led-chips-updated
  • Vyacheslav Viktorovich 13 February 2020 09: 27 New
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    This is some amazingly worthless activity.

    How can one compete with an industry where architectures are designed in the UK, systems on them are designed in the USA, they are manufactured in Taiwan and Korea with the help of equipment and materials made in the Netherlands, and whose products are sold all over the world? That's just - HOW? The transition to total copying of everything and everything was a forced decision from a banal lack of resources for conducting full-fledged research in the required volumes.
  • Angelo Provolone 13 February 2020 09: 59 New
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    Meanwhile, a possible way out of the difficult situation that has arisen may be turning to fundamental science, which we have always been at the highest level.

    It's time, it's time to turn to her. Scientists have been waiting for treatment.


    The famous Glonass-M 75-80% consists of foreign components.

    The main thing is to force each carrier to shove themselves ... in the car this crap! Well, we will support a foreign manufacturer!
  • gridasov 13 February 2020 10: 20 New
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    Why all this talk. Someone believes that young people are able to understand how to build bulk microcircuits and the operation of some element devices in the magnetic field of others. Or someone came closer to understanding which element base devices can control the density of magnetic force interactions, which means significantly expanding the range of the scale of electronic magnetic interactions. Or someone understands how to build algorithmic impulses in the operation of devices. Or maybe they represent a multipolar transistor, at least in its theoretical principles of operation. To overtake and overtake, one must not overtake and overtake, but one must create perfection
    1. gridasov 13 February 2020 11: 09 New
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      Yes, I joked! And then they’ll put cons and I’ll start to get nervous!
  • Engineer 13 February 2020 11: 16 New
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    Go to ru.indeed.com
    We are looking for vacancies
    Engineer average salary of 18 thousand
    Electronics average salary of 20 thousand
    All you need to know about the "military technopolis"

    I do not give a direct link, because long addresses of a hyperlink to VO are deleted
    1. Keyser soze 13 February 2020 17: 28 New
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      Engineer average salary of 18 thousand


      What is 250-300 dollars ?! This is an unparalleled salary .... The enterprise is doomed to sky-high success.
      1. God save the king 13 February 2020 19: 28 New
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        Now you understand who and how forges "breakthroughs" on new physical principles.
        Now, here are also conscripts of the same age who will take up business instead of painting the grass with green paint, and we will reach a new level of world science, this ingenious plan of the highest rate is simply doomed to success.
      2. Engineer 13 February 2020 19: 47 New
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        What is 250-300 dollars ?!

        You, spiritless Europeans, measure everything with green paper.
        Well, think of it, engineers are treated like potatoes that you can buy in bags. These are trifles if Russia's defense capability and greatness are at stake
        For comparison
        1. Keyser soze 13 February 2020 20: 34 New
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          Well, think, engineers are treated like potatoes


          Damm ... bitter humor ... recourse I have nothing to say here.
  • Sancho_SP 13 February 2020 11: 47 New
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    It makes no sense to recall the seventies. Then the military man and space were at the forefront of progress, pulling equipment along with them. Titanium, carbon, composites, plastics, and even canned food - all this was first in the army.

    In recent decades, the flagship of technology has been consumer demand, followed by business demand. And only then technologies go to the army.
  • rica1952 13 February 2020 12: 37 New
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    Destroying fundamental, branch science, an attempt is made to import electronics, and where on the beach in Anapa, not in Moscow, not in Zelenograd and in Novossibirsk. It looks like importing machines in Lipetsk, re-pasted the label from Italian machines and ol. Another failure of our managers in varnish shields .
  • bandabas 13 February 2020 13: 02 New
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    By the way. And how is the brainchild of our deputy head of the Security Council of the Russian Federation "Skolkovo" doing? Something has been silent lately. But this structure regularly receives money.
  • prior 13 February 2020 13: 20 New
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    Without a global sales market, our microelectronics (production of components) will never become competitive, and therefore will not have the funds for further development.
    It’s time to understand that it’s time to put an end to Russian microelectronics, like to the ruins of the USSR.
    How not to revive the USSR, and not to revive microelectronics. The train left.
    We could not stay on the bandwagon .... You can talk a lot, nothing can be done.
    Even what is left breathes incense ....
    1. gridasov 13 February 2020 15: 28 New
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      Chef, it's all gone! Now it’s even scary to think what will happen after the BB. How much is enough for an army to hold out? What makes Russia a member of the club page
      1. prior 13 February 2020 16: 37 New
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        In vain you. This is not alarmism, this is a statement of fact.
        Once Lefty was savvy agglitz flea, but this did not lead Russia to the industrial revolution ...
      2. gridasov 13 February 2020 17: 40 New
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        Excuse me! Well, that managed to remove most of the post. I didn’t send it either. But it did not print.
    2. God save the king 13 February 2020 19: 37 New
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      The CIS, India, China, Oceania, half of Africa and Latin America are open, but do you have a small market? Or is it all the fault of the ten-year lag in domestic electronics and the virtually complete absence of any competitive products in the civilian sector? I think the saying "bad dancer" comes in handy as never before.
      The electronics of the USSR itself was based on copying foreign samples, which even became a parable in anicdotes, and Russia is following the same well-trodden path here.
  • faterdom 13 February 2020 14: 48 New
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    These are critical technologies. And we will either have to have them, or they will have us (we will lose our defenses).
    This should be understood by our Guarantors and other Mishustins, to take money from the Grefs and Chubais, but give them to those who can solve this issue. It will be able, and will not talk about flights to Mars (because it does not surpass here either Tolstoy or Bradbury).
  • Andrey.AN 13 February 2020 16: 35 New
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    Can't provide automated control of production processes with a resolution higher than 65 nm? Maybe someone does not want?
  • Andrey.AN 13 February 2020 16: 41 New
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    At us, atoms seemed to be photographing before everyone else.
  • Uncle Izya 13 February 2020 18: 35 New
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    There is hope for the Zelenograd group of companies "Micron", which is private and controlled by AFK Sistema. It was at Mikron that the first in Russia were able to master the production of microcircuits with a topology of 180 nm (bought from STM), later figured out 90 nm, and six years ago on their own
    C'mon, all the electronics coming from Integral
    1. Engineer 13 February 2020 19: 53 New
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      There is hope for the Zelenograd group of companies "Micron", which is private and controlled by AFK Sistema.

      https://habr.com/ru/post/486326/
      According to the results of 2019, the largest chip manufacturer (Micron) had revenue of about 10 billion rubles ($ 160 million, or 0.5% of TSMC) and for the first time in ten years (!) it was not unprofitable. For comparison, the revenue of Yandex for 2018 is 126 billion rubles.

      In 2007, Micron licensed technological processes of 180 and 90 nm from the French-Italian company ST Microelectronics. Micron processes with 180 nm standards are designed for the production of radio frequency tags (RFID), which you can already find on public transport tickets, and in the future, in everything that can be marked - fur coats, passports and even smart glasses. At 90 nm there is only pilot and small-scale production. In parallel, Micron operates as a foundation (according to the standards of 180 and 240 nm) for many Russian fabless companies, being one of the main import substitution centers for dual-use microcircuits that have been sanctioned. At the same time, the range of dual-use chips produced is very wide, and the circulation is small, therefore, to maintain the factory, it definitely needs large-scale civilian orders - which provide metro tickets.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pacifist with AK 13 February 2020 18: 46 New
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    Interesting material on Soviet computers (the topic of reverse engineering is touched) .I recommend it!
  • honest people 13 February 2020 18: 55 New
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    Quote: Cowbra
    Everything is just like firewood. We DO NOT LET US TO GAS MARKET ON THE MARKET - the West is simply not able to - it will bend itself. But in the microelectronics market - and so the crisis of overproduction, it is no secret that the market is overstocked and the product life is artificially reduced. By the way, a typical corporate conspiracy. And now they are not letting us into this market.
    Well here we are fools ourselves. Carried out for example Formosa screwdriver - but in the Russian Federation assembly of boards, why not support the state? You look, and would have grown to what. And without the support of the state - they got burned out, well, Vasya Pupkin came, looking - there is a Russian one 25% cheaper, there is a Korean one, but I know this company, a little more expensive - Vasya will buy the one that he knows.
    PiSi: by the way, we have to start from this point - the assembly is localized. In general, this is so. As for the development, the author is wrong, it was a competitive base in the early 80s, now there is NO base, so there is only reverse engineering, there are simply no options. And let them learn to improve on the go - this is a research institute. So for example, China has risen, or Japan, or, suddenly - the Soviet Union under Stalin

    In Germany, the cost of electricity generated by solar panels installed on roofs of buildings is less than one third of the cost of electricity in the German market. Also, electricity generated in Europe from solar energy is much cheaper than that produced by new coal, gas and nuclear power plants - its cost is usually two times lower.

    In the next four years, new photovoltaic plants will be built in Europe, with a total capacity of about 100 GW, and with an optimistic scenario - 145 GW, the SolarPower Europa organization, which is developing solar energy in Europe, calculated.
    1. swzero 13 February 2020 20: 32 New
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      Where is Europe, and where are we. We have summer 3 months a year. In winter, there is no sun and somehow the snow needs to be cleaned. As for the brighter low cost of photovoltaic, it is doubtful. Even so, just compare the cost of energy for them and us. And make allowance for the drop in efficiency and rise in price of photovoltaic energy due to climatic conditions. The question also arises: do you take into account the cost of energy storage batteries for photo installations - after all, the main generation of electric energy occurs during the day, and the main consumption by the population, for example, in the evening / night? And when you consider that the energy consumption in winter is much higher than in summer, and the efficiency of solar sources is vice versa?
  • swzero 13 February 2020 20: 22 New
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    I do not agree with the author. Any industry begins with copying (reverse engineering) or licensed release. This is the only way to develop the industry. During the development of advanced import developments, our own engineers gain experience, and then, using this experience, they will be able to create their own solutions, often based on imported designs, all of which can be perfectly seen on the example of the Soviet Union, China and Japan, where in almost all areas of technology the path has been traveled from the development of other people's developments to the creation of our own, often superior to foreign analogues.
    1. Ua3qhp 13 February 2020 22: 17 New
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      Yes,,,
      One feels that the author has no idea how the electronic industry functions from the word at all.
      Here on the forum, there is one person nicknamed "navigator", but he is also "very far from the people" (c) (I don’t remember who said that from the classics of Marxism) From my point of view, all kinds of technopolises are not capable of organizing semiconductor production. It is impossible to organize even not modern semiconductor production on the basis of a "type of cadets of two-year-olds."
      Signature:
      Grishchenko Sergey Viktorovich
      Head of Laboratory, NIIET JSC
      Voronezh
      1. Cympak 14 February 2020 11: 32 New
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        If you can develop something and it is possible (but not by cadets "two-year-olds"), then a very big question is with the organization of production. So far, all of our "innovative" phones, tablets, computers are being assembled in China.
      2. Artunis 15 February 2020 13: 35 New
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        I completely agree with you. People undertake to write articles completely without understanding the essence of the subject. In my opinion, this topic is much more complex and multifaceted (and more expensive by the way) than the production of a new tank is not afraid of minusoids.
  • Knell wardenheart 13 February 2020 22: 29 New
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    The common man "Elbrus" for 225k is not much needed, but you can drive the shooters on Intel. If our manufacturers expect that solely from patriotic feelings people will start to take Russian products where there are developed and trusted foreign manufacturers, with service centers, warranty cards, etc. - no, this will not happen) We built everything so that it was under defense and space - we got what lined up. This, incidentally, is a very good lesson from the series - if you cook soup from an ax, there is nothing to be surprised that it tastes like iron.
    What can be done about this? It’s good to introduce some import duties on foreign electronics — BUT, do it in such a way that all these funds go not to your uncle’s pocket — but to a specific fund dedicated to the development of domestic electronics and formulating grants on this subject.
    This fund should be confronted with the most specific tasks — those formed by the military / outer space over the long term of 5,10,20 years are permissible. In modern conditions, completely replacing the entire line of Western products will be pointless / counterproductive / economically unprofitable - however, it is quite possible to create a mechanism that provides a steady flow of funding for domestic developments.
  • Sergey Bulaev 14 February 2020 02: 58 New
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    The article is good, if you read everything. The problem of copying was voiced, which arose due to the betrayal of senior management who gave birth to the order "... not to register inventions and discoveries that have no foreign counterpart." I want to get an answer, but now pioneering inventions and discoveries are also spreading rotten ?!
  • pavelpavel 14 February 2020 06: 56 New
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    Already then, at the end of 70, an armed detachment of the party, the KGB, was building illusions about the superiority of the West and entry into Western civilization. It is very unfortunate, but the “born to crawl” in the System to this day demonstrate the most base human qualities.
  • Valery Potapov 14 February 2020 09: 46 New
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    What bl omissions. Conscious destruction according to the plans and orders of the owners. And no one answered for anything. How they ruled everything from themselves smart and they rule ... But orders are not withdrawn ...
  • swzero 14 February 2020 12: 40 New
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    The cost of elbrus has little to do with seriality. Automated production lines do not care what riveting. Yes, preparation for production is worth some money, but even here we are not talking about the difference in cost by an order between batches of 1k pcs or 1kk, rather a few percent. Our enterprises widely practice ordering the necessary microcircuits in China for their projects - this is not so expensive, even when it comes to prototypes. The point is that the MCST is a monopolist and can set absolutely any prices for its products; the defense ministry has no choice but to take it. For example, a commercial Baikal-T processor from Baikal Electronics costs about 5k. rubles. And the MCST, like most other offices tied to the defense industry, is raising the cost of products simply by an order of magnitude relative to cost. Preying on state defense orders in the most arrogant way, using the monopoly.
    1. Artunis 15 February 2020 13: 24 New
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      But is there anything they need to invest in in addition to the cost of development, staff maintenance, taxes, etc.? Do you know how much it costs to develop a new processor? At Intel, this translates into tens of billions and not rubles. And it takes 3-5 years in time. And the development of a new processor is not only iron, it is also a new program. security and much more ... So you don’t need so indiscriminately in the accounts, everything is much more complicated. There is a whole ecosystem.
      1. swzero 15 February 2020 18: 46 New
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        A Baikal electronics is not necessary? Some percent have 5k, others 200. And all because some have leaked to the defense, and the second - no.
  • Pahun 14 February 2020 15: 09 New
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    He served in the ERA technopolis from 2018 to 2019. I will say softly and multiple times - this is all sheer window dressing and lies, which is shown on the news. They deceive everyone, the Minister of Defense, the President, citizens, telling about "breakthrough" developments and technologies that are not there (they make people lie and embellish them very much).
    Operators of scientific companies during "scientific studies" play DotA and tanks, what can I say about science in the army?)
    Scientific publications are invented, I didn’t have a single one, but for some report I came up with as many as 2 pieces)
    Inspections come stably every month and a week or two before it, the technopolis starts doing all the army jokes: running around branding the whole form, putting things in order, rearranging, ironing the form, brushing the asphalt, painting trees green, etc. everyone forgets about science . During the test, science is also pushed back, because every time you need to run to iron laboratory gowns (you can’t sit down, remember the gown, but it must be perfectly ironed). By the way, dressing gowns are worn only during checks or for the filming of programs or the media. At that time, in the laboratories, each operator of a scientific company repeats a memorized report in his head (he is suddenly asked so that everyone can answer and not make a mistake) and pretends to be doing something very important (for example, moving a 3D model of an airplane in Blender program in different directions as if modeling it).
    In short, with science there everything is very, very bad ...
  • Sedunov Boris Ivanovich 14 February 2020 18: 48 New
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    Achieving a world-class level in the field of micro- and nanoelectronics is impossible without our own production of technological equipment and electronic equipment ahead of time. Purchases of technological equipment and materials abroad guarantee a gap of decades.
  • Kaw
    Kaw 14 February 2020 19: 55 New
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    A simple “creative rethinking” of Western experience, firstly, will never give us an advantage in the race, but will only allow us to reduce the backlog,

    This is stupidity. When industrialization in the USSR passed. We bought imports, they delivered them to us on a lend-lease basis, we received them on indemnities from the Reich. And then they learned to do it themselves. It is useless to try to make a fighter from scratch if you can only make a bike. IMHO
  • Artunis 15 February 2020 13: 05 New
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    The author is in many ways right, but far from everything. About laziness to speak about the Soviet, even laziness is impossible without sadness. The deliberately ruined development and stupid copying of IBM in the form of the EU series automatically transferred all the electronics of the USSR from advanced developers to catching up (and therefore a priori lagging behind). And their developments were oh so promising and different .. And it was not without the help of comrades from the GDR that such a fatal decision was made for us. Well, okay, history .... And now all this is CONSCIOUSLY slowing down. There are also very promising developments, and not catching up, but "head to head" and even better, BUT .... We need to invest money, and not small, in the construction of factories, etc. And just recently, Deputy Prime Minister Borisov made a scandal in the former government of Dimon due to the fact that for 2 years this very government cannot agree on the allocation of the approved amount for the construction of 2 (only 2) factories for the production of microelectronics! The other day, another embarrassment - the FAS cut off the purchase of several thousand Elbrus computers for Russian Railways because of the allegedly uncontested tender and directly pointing out the WTO rules on which sanctions could allegedly be applied to us !!!. Well and so on, As for the prices of our Russian electronics, then, alas, there is nothing joyful either and will not be, but for purely objective reasons. In order for the price to become competitive and affordable, you need to produce chips in tens and hundreds of millions of pieces. And not only release, but also sell. And who will let us into a strange clearing ?! Even discussing is ridiculous. Especially with a different chip architecture, and therefore with different software (hello intelvindovs). Next need to explain? So you can sell all this only within the country, and even then only to government agencies of critical areas .... Ordinary users also disappear, both in price and in software incompatibility with Windows-Apple. So you can easily calculate the entire volume of possible sales to the whole of Russia - in the best option, no more than a few million pieces in total. And this is to reduce the cost of garbage. A healthy grin of capitalism however. But you still need to do your own thing, there is no other way, well, unless of course we want to be sovereign and all that
  • Ua3qhp 15 February 2020 20: 05 New
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    Quote: swzero
    Preying on state defense orders in the most arrogant way, using the monopoly.

    Your untruth.
    The price of any microelectronics product supplied to the MO is consistent with the representative office of this organization in charge of this enterprise. And you have to prove every penny price. In the “most insolent way” the price cannot be lifted if it is not a “criminal conspiracy”. Here, by the way, FAS can also connect.
  • Sckepsis 20 February 2020 07: 13 New
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    None of the leading powers now directly sell us military-class equipment, even China

    I hope that the top management somehow admonishes. It’s in vain that we sell them the latest final products (!) For analysis, they can provide them in exchange for bulk.
  • tank64rus 18 March 2020 10: 38 New
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    A country was developing in the USSR, and these technopolises have the impression that their role is such as that of the "ostentatious" units to entertain the eyes of the higher leadership.
  • Vadim777 20 March 2020 20: 13 New
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    Say thanks to the Moscow leadership for the liquidation of the Mitinsky radio market, where dying enterprises could at least sell something and stay afloat ....