Experiment: how many continuous shots will the legendary PPSh sustain

Another plot "Destroyers weapons"On the channel of the Kalashnikov concern is dedicated to extreme shooting from the legendary PPSh. Why is shooting extreme? And because any plot of “Destroyers of weapons” is associated with shooting so intense that in the end small arms go to transcendental modes of use.

The endurance is checked by a real veteran of the shooting service - the 78-year-old Shpagin submachine gun.

Cartridges are fired from two types of magazines: these are classic drum drums for PPSh, as well as sector ones.

Experimenter:

Ergonomics of wartime - this, of course, is far from modernity. Sleeves are strewed right on the sighting line.

The video shows how the experimenter has problems unfastening stores from the PPSh.

After 597 fired bullets, smoke appears in the muzzle region.

When the bar went up to 900 rounds, a cartridge was stuck in the front wall of the magazine.

So how many continuous shots does the PCA withstand?

Video with the experiment and the answer to the question:

Comments

[svp67]

Daddy is really cool, here's a bullet eater ... and if the experimenter had more sector shops, he would not know how many he would have shot. since the disc is used without any problems at the PPSh only from the "relatives", that is, it was just the first two ... Well, cool. It would be interesting to shoot PPP so

[beeper]

Yes, comrade Svp67, it would also be interesting to see, it is also interesting to shoot the PPS - it is even better arranged with the barrel cooling, the chamber is slightly "freer" (for more reliable work with wartime surrogate cartridges, manufacturing on worn out equipment with worn out tools, from materials - substitutes and low-skilled workers) "cut, and the barrel itself with the same walls ...
My bati, during the post-war service in Germany, was armed with PPSh-he spoke very well about him, said that he was accurate and stable when shooting, and very suitable for hand-to-hand combat ...

[neri73-r]

Quote: pishchak

He spoke very well about him, said that he was accurate and stable when shooting, and very suitable for hand-to-hand combat ...

Of course, 5 kg, he does not even move much in his hands, although you can write with bullets and stick like that with a club, it will not seem enough. I could not stand it, I bought myself such a hunting 1945 release, it is a pity I can only solitary, I shot from a battlefield, there are a lot of impressions and only good ones. By the way, the sample from which he fired fired at that time 5 million shots (according to the testimony of the Central Research Institute Tochmash, where he shot).

[Spektr]

Legend of the Second World War. He and the Germans recognized him as a trouble-free weapon and often used it as a trophy ...

[svp67]

Quote: pishchak

My bati, during the post-war service in Germany, was armed with PPSh-he

My same served with him, for the rest of his life he remembered the case when in one of the guards, at one of the guards, the equipped PPSh fell to the concrete floor, split into two parts and started to shoot independently, and it spins ... God kept everyone, no one was hooked, but re .... everything, most of all the owner of this PPSh, who stood like that heron on one leg for another half an hour, could not move ...

[neri73-r]

Quote: svp67

divided into two parts and began to shoot independently,

I can't imagine how this is technically possible. When "separating" the barrel goes down from the bolt axis, the cartridge will not enter the chamber.

[svp67]

Quote: neri73-r

I can't imagine how this is technically possible. When "separating" the barrel goes down from the bolt axis, the cartridge will not enter the chamber.

No, there’s something like a butt flew off, in general I remember who else told me what the PPSh had, something like that, they tried not to drop it especially
P / S: Found.

If dropped or hit, the weapon could fire. This was due to the weakening of the gate spring.

Well, the flying butt apparently shows that the blow was not weak, since the wooden bed cracked

[Orkraider]

It’s not the spring, as far as I understand, a spontaneous shot is the trouble of all the PPs with a free shutter:

Automation works according to the scheme of using recoil with a free shutter. The fire is fired from the rear sear (the shutter is fired in the extreme rear position before firing, after the shutter goes forward, the cartridge is sent out, the capsule is pricked at the moment of completion of retouching), the shutter is not fixed at the moment of firing.

A similar scheme is often used in the development of submachine guns. For all its simplicity, such a solution requires the use of a massive bolt, increasing the total mass of weapons. In addition, a weapon using such a reloading scheme can shoot as a result of a strong blow (for example, when falling), if the bolt from the extreme front (unfixed) position rolls away from the strike along guides farther from the magazine's supply window, or from the extreme rear - it will fall off stopper.

[svp67]

I have never exploited PPSh. He held it in his hands, took it apart, but did not have to shoot. And this is what Net found in the bowels of the net. So I will believe everything

[figwam]

At PPS, the rate of fire is 650 rpm, and at PPSh -1000 rpm, and even with such a rate of fire he would at least have something.

[svp67]

Quote: figvam

even with such a rate of fire at least for him.

So what? The cartridge is pistol, the barrel is not very long, moreover, there are no "extra" holes in the barrel, for the operation of the same gas exhaust system ...

[Grandfather]

I fired from a "pasha", the shells were shot, they did not interfere very much on the line of sight, the eye focused on the target. And yes, disk magazines under each machine were easily inserted only "ours". and the "machine" is good.

[YOUR]

As you can see from the video at the shooting 23 magazines 30 rounds and three magazines for 71 rounds. Work fine

[svp67]

Quote: YOUR

Work fine

No, the last drive did not work normally, poking, poking

[Mar.Tirah]

Recently in LRS when re-registering my weapons, I saw how a man brought PPSh for registration !!!!!! The real, legendary PPSh is not fake and jewelry remade for firing with single shots. The whole department came running to watch it. So now you can buy it. In their warehouses there is still darkness, so they decided to convert and put them on sale.

[beeper]

We, back in Soviet high school, had completely unused, brand new PPSh and a machine gun DP with hallmarks of military years of release, converted into training for NVP.
Since I’ve been a turner since I was 10 years old, I immediately drew attention to the external processing of the barrel of that military PPSh 1942, it was ribbed, like a small thread, as it was made with large feeds to make it quicker, so in peacetime they don’t grind. ... although, for cooling the barrel, ribbing only benefits the larger surface to be cooled.
And I remember it all my life because before my mother’s workmate told how he, as a teenager, worked as a turner at a Moscow aircraft factory and, in order to get to the control levers of the machine, they put a wooden box under his feet .... imagined that then the same boy at the arms factory, also standing on a box near the machine, sharpened this barrel to our school PPSh.
Included with each PPSh were only two "native", individually adjusted to it, disk stores!

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: pishchak

We, back in Soviet high school, had completely unused, brand new PPSh and a machine gun DP with hallmarks of military years of release, converted into training for NVP.

Yes, I also remember this. PPSh, AKM and PD were the main areas of interest in the school. Everyone was waiting for someone to trust the military instructor to bring weapons to the classroom from the gun room. Then the PPSh seemed hefty and heavy. Although in reality it is a light and small sample of Victory’s weapon with the same AK-74! And what pride was when you carry it on your shoulder, all the children ran together for a break.

[Astra wild]

I didn’t see the PPSh, but I know the AK-74, with a wooden butt, is heavy

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Astra wild

I didn’t see the PPSh, but I know the AK-74, with a wooden butt, is heavy

AKM and AK-47 with wooden butts. And your truth is they are really heavier than AK 74 with a folding butt.

[Astra wild]

With a folding butt I saw on TV and it seemed to me pretty

[Gvardeetz77]

Those. AK-74 not with a wooden butt? Do not mislead a lady ...

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Gvardeetz77

Those. AK-74 not with a wooden butt? Do not mislead a lady ...

From the very beginning, the machine was produced in four versions:

AK-74 - the main option. This is a continuation of the development of the AKM
AKS-74 (GRAU Index - 6P21) is an AK-74 variant with a metal buttstock folding onto the left side. Designed for use in the airborne troops.
AK-74N - “night” version of the AK-74 with a side bar for mounting night sights (for example, 1P78).
AKS-74N - the “night” version of the folding AKS-74, with a side bar for attaching night sights (for example, 1P78).
AK-74M (GRAU Index - 6P34) - AK-74 upgraded. It is equipped with a folding plastic buttstock on the left side and a universal mount (dovetail bar) for mounting sights, both optical and night, on the left side of the receiver. Thus, the AK-74M replaced four models at once: AK-74, AKS-74, AK-74N and AKS-74N .. The lady herself understands weapons no worse than you and me. I talked about those who were at school years. AK-74 with a folding butt. And it is lighter than machine guns with wooden butts.

[Okolotochny]

Designed for use in the airborne troops.

I served in urgent with BB. So, not only in the Airborne Forces used.

[svp67]

Quote: Gvardeetz77

Those. AK-74 not with a wooden butt?

How to say it ... NOT ALL
I remember at school two years after I was just like that ...

And this is the GDRovskiy "pimply"

[Rey_ka]

with a wooden one with a wooden one he himself with such served there in the butt still a pencil case with pribludy for cleaning the machine

[Jarserge]

AK-74 "heavy" ?! Compared to what?

[Grandfather]

Quote: Mar. Tira

Quote: pishchak

We, back in Soviet high school, had completely unused, brand new PPSh and a machine gun DP with hallmarks of military years of release, converted into training for NVP.

Yes, I also remember this. PPSh, AKM and PD were the main areas of interest in the school. Everyone was waiting for someone to trust the military instructor to bring weapons to the classroom from the gun room. Then the PPSh seemed hefty and heavy. Although in reality it is a light and small sample of Victory’s weapon with the same AK-74! And what pride was when you carry it on your shoulder, all the children ran together for a break.

a trifle and from "TOZ" ki was thrilled ... but we ... like adults ... carry carelessly so .. ". habitually" on the belt ... and the pancake itself is 14 years old ... yes ...

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: Dead Day

we carry it casually so .. ". habitually" on the belt ... and the pancake itself is 14 years old ... yes ...

14 many. Years from 12 began. In the holidays in the honor guard to stand with the PPSh was something !!!!! Well, TOZ-8, (small things) with "air", where can we go without them? And what surprises now, The military commander himself handed out the bullet cartridges that were in his simple wooden table and we fired from them in the school shooting range. Alone with the military commander, without instructors, accompanying officers, police officers and national guards!?!?!?

[sharp-lad]

In our school it was the same, a whole class and one military instructor giving out ten rounds per nose and constantly complaining to us that he took only 4 boxes of cartridges with him, and that on the shooting gallery floor he had already gathered on a bucket of cartridges. And what is surprising if every second classmate is the son / daughter of an officer.

[Essex62]

We had two and Degtyar, but in the school shooting range they only fired from Toziks, AK disassembly-assembly. They took them to the shooting range, a couple of times, like. At the shooting range hung an agitation poster "Our goal is communism" one joke and blurt out - fire on communism. Comrade, in civilian clothes, his father had a nightmare after in the headmistress's office. It seems like they were keeping an eye out, but they didn’t notice how the barnyard's infection spread over the State and began to dictate the rules.

[YOUR]

In the video there are 3 magazines for 71 cartridges and 23 for 30 cartridges. Maybe at the initial stage it was, but as you can see from the video, the individual fit is not confirmed.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: YOUR

In the video there are 3 magazines for 71 cartridges and 23 for 30 cartridges. Maybe at the initial stage it was, but as you can see from the video, the individual fit is not confirmed.

The third disk just powdered brains.

[YOUR]

One of 26 submitted.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: YOUR

individual adjustment is not confirmed.

Individually, as far as I know, drives were customized, not sector stores. In the video, just two discs worked flawlessly.

[YOUR]

The third one also worked, well there were delays, but they were quickly eliminated. All is almost 80 years old.

[Mordvin 3]

And the fourth disc was probably full of the first two, and again without delay.

[beeper]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: YOUR

individual adjustment is not confirmed.

Individually, as far as I know, drives were customized, not sector stores. In the video, just two discs worked flawlessly.

The third disk store was not native to this PPSh, so, probably, they left it for last ?! And they did the right thing, as it turned out!
The front-line soldiers said that, from experience, they had never loaded the PPSh and DP disk magazines to their full capacity! Always underloaded 3-5 rounds! Because of the capricious "gramophone", spiral, springs, the quality of the metal of which fell in wartime and they quickly "sat down", causing delays in the supply of the last cartridges.
Partisan machine gunners, who usually had one or two worn-out magazines in constant use, even fastened a cord loop on top of the DP "disk" cover in order to see the consumption of cartridges and, when the latter were consumed, help the magazine feeder by hand.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: pishchak

The third disk store was not native to this PPSh, so, probably, they left it for last ?! And they did the right thing, as it turned out!

Here I am about that. There, apparently, there were large tolerances during production, and therefore they customized the wheels as better.

Quote: pishchak

Front-line soldiers said that, in experience, they never charged PPSh and DP disk stores to capacity — to their full capacity! Always undercharged 3-5 rounds!

I don’t know about DP, but about the PPSh, one same front-line soldier told us the same thing.

[beeper]

And I write about the same. About two individually fitted disk magazines in the factory delivery set of PPSh is a documentary fact, but I see on the downside that there are stubborn disagreements with this, Comrade Mordvin 3. Probably, some "alternatives" who do not know the real history of military production of Shpagin pistols- machine guns ?!

[beeper]

But what can I say, if any "Thomas the unbeliever (for a catchphrase, and not for insult!)" Can himself see in the newsreel of the war years, if he pays attention to the (not so rare!) Footage of the production of PPSh, even boys and girls , where, along the wall above the workbenches, the armourers put the finished assemblies, to those already standing there, ready for delivery to the military representative, Shpagin submachine guns with tied to them two (no more and no less!) disk stores!

[John22]

Sector stores for 35 rounds. 23x35 equals 805 shots.

[YOUR]

Plus three drums of 71 rounds.

[About 2]

Disk stores before being replaced by sector stores, if my memory serves me right, were made interchangeable with other PPSh. But there were other problems with PPSh disk stores according to Dmitry Shiryaev, the designer of the gunsmith, for example, the deformation of the walls of the store. Soviet infantrymen were in the habit of holding their guns by the barrel and sitting backwards on a disk magazine, which led to deformation of the walls and the magazine breaking down. The operation of disk magazines generally showed their low reliability and this was the main reason for rejecting them not only from PPSh but also from RPK machine gun.

[serg.shishkov2015]

We also had PPSh! even stood with him in the guard of honor at the Eternal Flame!

[Cryvedco]

Eh, it would be better if they allowed automatic weapons to buy, and so, it’s a pity the machines only. Worse, only civilian semi-automatic machine guns and a screw cutter without a silencer.

[ccsr]

Quote: Mar. Tira

In their warehouses there is still darkness, so they decided to convert and put them on sale.

This is an exaggeration - they are not in the warehouses, because in the Ministry of Internal Affairs the last machines were removed from the convoy units in the sixties, and after that all the MO stocks were transferred or sold to different countries, especially to those who supported socialism. So by now, there may have remained single samples in warehouses, but no more.

[Constanty]

Surprisingly, in Poland there are still available (converted for firing with single shots) Soviet from the war but unused for ridiculous money - about $ 250

[Orkraider]

Recently in LRS when re-registering my weapons, I saw how a man brought PPSh for registration !!!!!! The real, legendary PPSh is not fake and jewelry remade for firing with single shots. The whole department came running to watch it. So now you can buy it. In their warehouses there is still darkness, so they decided to convert and put them on sale.

No wonder, catches if you take it.
Here is my))))

[Strashila]

Just handsome, what is done according to all the rules and after a decade it works as it should.

[Cryvedco]

Damn, well, why the heck about a gun to mock? I didn’t even look.

[bistrov.]

I had to shoot from the PPSh, the horn store, shot standing at the chest, from 100 meters, which was remembered: it’s quite difficult to shoot alone, since the shutter has a large mass and when firing, when you press the shutter when the shutter breaks from a whisper, the machine twitches slightly , you need to adapt to this, or shoot from the stop, you get a scatter, but all the same, all three bullets hit the target, but the target simply riddled with automatic fire, there is practically no recoil. According to instructions, solitary shooting is recommended up to 300 meters, automatic fire at 200 meters.
Pretty weighty - 5 kg. but comfortable and handy, I liked it.

[Avior]

And how did they keep it? Where was your left hand?
By the horn or disk, they will loosen up, further inconvenient to drive, in front of the disk, even more inconvenient to hold, hand too close.
As I did not try on the layout, I did not take it to make it convenient.

[bistrov.]

Quote: Avior

And how to keep

Not for the store, for the protrusion of the shutter box in front of the shop. Actually, a flaw, I’m not aware that holding the store is not recommended, over time, the store’s attachment point loosens and you need to change the stores and the magazine latch, and possibly the shutter box, still had to provide a handle for the left hand.

[Avior]

The protrusion is very small, with a horn more or less, and there is no way to hold the disc there at all
The faculty has a ledge of the store acceptor, it is much more convenient to hold.

[Lamata]

Somehow I tried to wave them at the reconstruction in the trench, Mlyn, if you really can drop into the skull !!

[Rasskazov Sergey Ivanovich]

It’s interesting to see, advertising is good. But this is not the main thing for any machine gun or machine gun. Maxim also shoots without cooling, but spits, the bullets do not fly far (rifle cartridge), the aiming range changes, there is no penetration force. It’s clear that PCA wasn’t given to fools, especially recruits. Otherwise, for 8 seconds, two stores and then only the butt. The pros won’t do it, the forend of the wooden and gas pipes are gone, there’s nothing to burn like on a Kalash. But here the glorified Kalash when overheating (somewhere 3-4 magazines or 90-120 rounds) also shoots, but spits. What is the use of frantic shooting if the bullets do not fly at the target and the enemy is not hit? And yet, the rate of fire PPSh-1000 h / min, i.e. 6 sec-100 shots or 16 per second. 72 rounds. For 16 we get 4,5 seconds, but for some reason it’s longer on the screen. Why?

[Taoist]

A trench broom as it is ... In Stalingrad, the Germans armed assault detachments with captured PPShs - for there was nothing better and more powerful for a "short" battle ... Well, you won't seem to light up a little with a butt ... unlike MP39 ...

[Doctor]

In Stalingrad, the Germans armed assault detachments with captured PPShs - for there was nothing better and more powerful for a "short" battle ...

Yes, he is now in the subject

[Andrei Alexandrovich]

Guys, what are you trying to prove to whom? ... Isn’t it embarrassing to scoff at the machine? ... The people who gathered there put a bit of their soul into it, and you in this case, with your distrust, actually didn’t give a damn about their soul ... You have a conscience, or in your place you have horseradish (a vegetable - such) has grown ...

[Arthur 85]

Um, well, if he didn’t have such gloves on his hands, maybe it would be more convenient. Although, of course, winter. And the pieces of iron can be red-hot.

[Selidat]

He is on all rollers in these gloves and with a visor on his face, all the same compliance with TB))

[About 2]

It was because of the reliability problems of the disk store that at the end of the war they decided to replace it with a horn. Excellent weapon of the Soviet designer Georgy Semenovich Shpagin.

[mat-vey]

In 1942, they began to change it, or rather to supplement it.

[Andrey.AN]

Successfully integrated into the geometry of the casing muzzle brake compensator, we can say ingenious. It is interesting to look at AK like that.

[av58]

Everything is expected reliably. The only question is: how much can you already mix with cocking the shutter with your left hand? You would scratch your left ear with your left hand

[Uncle Izya]

And what about ammunition, better pm and parabelum

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

This is not so with rarity.