The Centennial of the Exodus: Millions of “Crucified on Red Army Stars”?


Monument "Exodus"


In 2013, a monument “Exodus” appeared on the embankment of Novorossiysk, dedicated to the flight of the All-Union Socialist League in 1920. The first persons of the city from former party workers pushed speeches about the importance of perpetuating such a tragic page in our country. stories, but even then, between the lines there was a profound inclination towards anti-communism, which in itself is the first step towards the denial of more than half a century of the history of the state. Later, a scandal erupted, as the creators of the monument were such connoisseurs of history that they put on one of the memorial plates the words of General Anton Turkul, the gentleman of St. George, who multiplied his life by zero through close cooperation with the Nazis and traitors from the Vlasov formations.

Finally, the discontent of the townspeople reached such a limit that Turkul's surname had to be knocked together quickly, indicating that the words belonged to a certain “officer of the Drozdovsky regiment”. True, it was already impossible to save the monument’s reputation among the indigenous New Russians. Some began to call the new monument simply “horse”, while others decided to perceive it as a monument to the great actor and singer Vladimir Vysotsky.

No conclusions were drawn from unlearned lessons.


Having accumulated reputation and social lumps on the “Horse” installation, the authorities did not bother to analyze how it happened. And so, by the centenary of the flight of the Armed Forces of the South of Russia, which will be celebrated at the highest level, and the development of an action plan is already taking place in the Russian military-historical society, the local authorities decided to contribute.

In Novorossiysk, an organizing committee has been created at the level of the city administration, which is currently creating a program of events dedicated to the tragic date. According to media reports, the initiator was some "public organizations", which ones are not indicated.

The Centennial of the Exodus: Millions of “Crucified on Red Army Stars”?
Future Memorial Project

The Novorossiisk Cossacks of the Black Sea District of the Kuban Cossack Army, who came forward with the proposal to establish a worship cross, also joined these events. At the same time, as this initiative was discussed, the number of crosses increased to two: one bow, and the other - St. George. And they plan to install them directly next to the already standing monument "Exodus". On one of the crosses it will be written:

“Passerby! Bow down to the memory of the innocent soldiers of the Russian Empire, the Armed Forces of the South of Russia, Cossacks and Russian citizens who could not accept the new political reality. The defeated, but not conquered, victims of repression and terror of 1919, 1920. Many names and graves were carried into the abyss of the history of the Black Sea. ”

And, of course, they are planning to make the new monument a place of a kind of pilgrimage. And already now political ears with a pronounced schismatic accent are climbing out of noble, it would seem, ideas. After all, once again, regular activists openly take a certain position and also forget the memory of the side that they put in their opponents.

Finally, on January 24, on the anniversary of the decree on the reprisal, the ataman of the Black Sea Cossack District Sergey Savotin put all the dots over i, stating:

“Today we commemorate the ancestors of our ancestors who were killed and died innocently during the years of repression. Millions of Cossacks, by decree of the Bolshevik government, were shot, buried alive, crucified on Red Army stars ... "



Worship cross project

The author will not even reproach Citizen Savotin for the fact that the Red Army star is one of the symbols of our Great Victory, and the Kuban Cossacks, who took part in the famous Victory Parade on Red Square, bore the Red Army stars on their Kuban. And as a torture, the red star was used by the Nazis, carving it on the chest of the Communists and Komsomol members. I just wonder if such a high-ranking Cossack is aware that according to the 1897 census, 2 million 880 thousand Cossacks lived in the Russian Empire. At the same time, children, women, and the elderly entered here. According to the most daring calculations, by the beginning of the revolution the number of Cossacks could not exceed 6 million, including again children and women.

During the Civil War itself, about a third of all Cossacks in Russia fought in the ranks of the Red Army. In addition, according to the data provided by Dmitry Penkovsky, Doctor of Historical Sciences (“Emigration of the Cossacks from Russia and its consequences”), about 500 thousand Cossacks and their families emigrated from their homeland. The numbers are simple, the fate is terrible. But the fashion for populist and blasphemous "millions", apparently, has notably taken root in modern political culture ... or in lack of culture.

Once again given the command to "forget"?


Indeed, Russia is a power with an unpredictable history. First, the kings and emperors carefully wiped away the moments of history that interfered with them, then careerists from the party appeared, who went through a hurricane both in history and in monuments and buildings. Then there was the period of citizen Khrushchev, who spat from his heart at his predecessor at the XX Congress of the CPSU. Finally, we got to Gorbachev and Yeltsin, who turned the history of the great empire so much that we still cannot get out of the coma.

What is this time we are compelled to forget? The original name of the event that attracted attention, namely, the Novorossiysk disaster. Instead, a tragically romanticized game begins with the word "outcome", which in itself throws part of the victims to the sidelines of history.

To begin with, the bomb of fierce bitterness and that hell into which the city of Novorossiysk plunged in the tragic 1920s was laid a couple of years earlier. The capture of Novorossiysk by parts of the White Guards was accompanied by mass executions. First, unreliable warlords were shot. In the area of ​​the Tsemess grove, where floodplains are located, the last refuge was found by the proletariat sympathizing with the red and several hundred Red Army men. At the time of the arrival of Denikin, there were also many wounded in the city, who had once fought on the side of the Reds. The press of those times wrote that, in order not to disturb the local population with shots, they were chopped off with checkers.


And that was just the beginning. The short-sightedness of Denikin’s policy is a vivid illustration of Berdyaev’s phrase "you need to love Russia and the Russian people more than you hate the revolution and the Bolsheviks." Anton Ivanovich, who advocated "for the one and indivisible", in hatred of the Bolsheviks, entered into an alliance with the Kuban Rada, who managed to declare the Kuban an independent republic, attracting all sorts of provocateurs, crooks and seekers of profit.

The consequences directly for Novorossiysk from this “union” were tragic. Here is how the legendary Vladimir Kokkinaki, an indigenous New Russian citizen, described the Cossacks-independents:

“I will never forget the case. They come with rifles two of some "fighters for the idea." Towards a well-dressed man in boots. One of those with rifles pushes the other with his elbow in the side and points to the oncoming peasant: “Oh, Gritsko, look, the one we are joking ...” They put him against the wall, shot him in front of my eyes, took off his boots, they took them and left. "

Because of the disorganized troops driven into the Novorossiysk “hollow”, the level of unsanitary conditions jumped up. Not enough water. Typhus began to rage, mowing both citizens and refugees. It was from typhus in Novorossiysk that famous personality stories died: Professor Prince Evgeny Nikolaevich Trubetskoy and Vladimir Mitrofanovich Purishkevich.


Due to criminal management mistakes, there were not enough transport ships, so a real panic was happening in the port. Here is how those events were described by the aforementioned Turkul, who does not have any warm feelings for the Reds:

“We are loading onto the Ekaterinodar steamboat. An officer company rolled out machine guns for order (!). Loaded officers and volunteers. One in the morning. The black wall of people standing in the back of the head moves almost silently. The pier has thousands of abandoned horses. From the deck to the hold, everything is crammed with people, stand shoulder to shoulder, and so on to the Crimea. In Novorossiysk guns were not loaded, everything was abandoned. The remaining people huddled on the jetty at the cement plants and prayed to take them, holding out their hands in the dark ... "

At the same time, the colonel of the Don consolidated partisan division Yatsevich reported to the commander:

“The hasty shameful loading was not caused by the real situation at the front, which was obvious to me, as the last departing one. No significant forces came. ”


Denikin hosts the Entente troops parade, which will soon sabotage the arrival of transports

Along with the flight, Denikin received the last “hello” from his “ally” - the Cossacks of the Kuban Rada who refused to leave Novorossiysk. Thus, the demoralized independent Cossacks and “green” gangs received for their use a whole city from which the White Guards with their nominal order left, but the Red Army soldiers had not yet arrived. The largest elevator in Europe ceased to exist, the port's infrastructure was partially destroyed, and no one considered the number of dead and robbed citizens and refugees. A disaster for everyone.

Red Cossacks are also in the dustbin of history


In their speeches, policies from the Cossacks also a priori completely erased the Red Cossacks from history. By the way, they did it in the best traditions of party officials from the time of communism. For example, they “forgot” that Ataman Pyotr Krasnov, the future Nazi criminal, on the Don, deprived almost all of the Cossacks (their families, respectively) who fought or sympathized with the Reds. Not news and executions of the Red Cossacks.


Ivan Kochubey

However, we will return to the Kuban. Right before our eyes, the legendary gentleman of St. George, the senior officer of the Russian Imperial Army and the brigade commander of the Red Guard, the cossack of the village of Georgievskaya Ivan Antonovich Kochubey set off for the history furnace. His figure was so popular among the Cossacks that when the white managed to capture the brave brigade commander, they even decided to have mercy on him and give an officer rank in exchange for service in their ranks. Kochubey refused and was hanged. Monuments to him stand in Beisug, Nevinnomyssk, St. George, etc.


Alexey Avtonomov (right)

And I won’t know where to take the former coronet from Don Aleksey Avtonomov and the Cossack of the village of Petropavlovskaya Ivan Sorokin to the Yekaterinodar defense commanders? Both personalities are extremely controversial, but both were Cossacks, and thousands of red Cossacks fought under their command. In addition, Sorokin was eventually shot by the Bolsheviks themselves, but managed to earn praise of Denikin himself:

"If in general the ideological leadership in strategy and tactics during the North Caucasus war belonged to Sorokin himself, then in the person of a nurse-assistant nugget, Soviet Russia lost a major military leader."



Ivan Sorokin

Where to put Yan Vasilyevich Poluyan, a Cossack Elizavetinsky stanitsa, a member of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Kuban Army, who was shot in 1937 and rehabilitated in 1955? What about the Cossack of the Razdolnaya stanitsa, a participant in the First World War, and later the commander of the 1st shock Soviet Sharia column, Grigory Ivanovich Mironenko, who survived the Civil War and devoted his whole life to serving the Soviet state and its people?

How much can you dance on this historical rake, solving your local shallow grass puzzles? The rake has already started in bubbles ... And most importantly, there is a way out of this situation, and it is a disaster on the surface. This concept itself screams about what happened and how to relate to it.
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  1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 05: 58 New
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    Having accumulated reputation and social lumps on the “Horse” installation, the authorities did not bother to analyze how it happened
    There is a good expression: "They have not forgotten anything and have not learned anything!"
    Although how else to look, they definitely learned nothing, deceitful pathos: the ataman of the Black Sea Cossack District Sergey Savotin put all the points on i, stating:
    “Today we commemorate the ancestors of our ancestors who were killed and died innocently during the years of repression. Millions of Cossacks, by decree of the Bolshevik government, were shot, buried alive, crucified on Red Army stars ... "
    Then “with the same hands” they are trying to bleat something about reconciliation.
    1. polar fox 13 February 2020 08: 06 New
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      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Ataman of the Black Sea Cossack District Sergey Savotin put all the points over i,

      I wonder what if his ancestors were "shot by the Reds", where did he come from then such? My ancestors from the Don, St. Kruchenaya Balka ... so the whole village was for the Reds ...
      1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 08 New
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        Quote: polar fox
        I wonder what if his ancestors were "shot by the Reds," where did he come from?

        and this is like in a joke, my grandfather had no children, my father had no children and I probably won’t have
        I’m interested in not taking it off. but what did he say as a Komsomol member?
        1. Chervonny 13 February 2020 15: 39 New
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          Quote: Barmaleyka
          I’m interested in not taking it off. but what did he say as a Komsomol member?

          Well, what this opportunist could say being a Komsomol member, if he was only him, he would definitely say: "Glory to the CPSU"; "Our steering party"; "The party said it is necessary, the Komsomol replied there!" well, and stuff like that, at the same time he scolded Belyakov, calling them bloodsuckers. And now he has repainted, another wind blew and he decided to change his political orientation, because it wasn’t fashionable to be red, but the blue blood inside you can find it politically true today. Tomorrow there will be a change of priorities and he will again change his orientation to any other political one that will be in trend.
          1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 17: 29 New
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            Quote: Red
            if he was only him

            was unequivocally, in 1982 he graduated from the Air Defense Forces Air Defense Forces, could not but be surprised if he was also a Komsomol
            1. ccsr 13 February 2020 18: 43 New
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              Quote: Barmaleyka
              was unequivocally, in 1982 he graduated from the Air Defense Forces Air Defense Forces,

              It is strange that the Soviet officer became mumbled - apparently his career didn’t set, so he decided to fasten extra stars to himself at the expense of amateur performances.
              1. not main 13 February 2020 22: 33 New
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                Quote: ccsr
                Quote: Barmaleyka
                was unequivocally, in 1982 he graduated from the Air Defense Forces Air Defense Forces,

                It is strange that the Soviet officer became mumbled - apparently his career didn’t set, so he decided to fasten extra stars to himself at the expense of amateur performances.

                I totally agree! But didn’t you have such at the School ...?
                1. ccsr 14 February 2020 17: 22 New
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                  Quote: non-primary
                  But didn’t you have such at the School ...?

                  Nobody hit the Cossacks - I know this from those with whom we keep in touch, and we sometimes meet two to three times a year, and once it is necessary. But a few people became Svidomo - but there are very few of them, few. And although we are called to Kiev by normal classmates, the last time we went there in 2013, and we’re unlikely to get together there. At least a hundred years of the Soviet school were celebrated in Moscow last March, and in it, by the way, A.I. Denikin studied in the 19th century. That's how life showed us what was happening in the Civil, only there everything was more tragic ...
            2. vladcub 13 February 2020 19: 05 New
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              They were all: the Komsomol, the Communist Party: B.N. or E.T. and others. Kohl joked somehow: if V.V. says that he considers himself a member of the Communist Party, then the whole EP will be in the Communist Party
              1. Victor N 14 February 2020 11: 56 New
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                The topic of the article is CATASTROPHE, not from the point of view of political preferences, but the disaster of the Russian people. A lot died, broken fates, hardships .... God forbid! Really did not deserve pity? Ours, after all ... And crosses or stars are symbols ...
            3. intuzazist 14 February 2020 08: 00 New
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              And what kind of bling on his chest ?! And for what merits did he make atamans? !!!
            4. Volzhanin64 15 February 2020 18: 58 New
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              To drive into the neck of such a "mumbled chieftain." As for the memorial, it should be dedicated to all the victims of the civil war, to all our citizens of the former empire who died in that meat grinder.
          2. vladcub 13 February 2020 18: 46 New
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            That's it from KDV: where the wind blows. In his youth, he read a book: "the first shot" and in 1917 one character declared that he was from the KDV party
      2. Major48 14 February 2020 22: 26 New
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        This Savotin is not a Cossack at all, but a retired colonel of the Russian army, most likely a political worker.
    2. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 08: 32 New
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      Then there was the period of citizen Khrushchev, who spat from his heart at his predecessor at the XX Congress of the CPSU. Finally, we got to Gorbachev and Yeltsin, who turned the history of the great empire so much that we still cannot get out of the coma.
      Well, yes, a vivid example of being in a coma is our Romanian "friend" and "guardian for Russia that they lost," Mr. Olgovich. This one doesn’t come out of a coma at all, and broadcasts from there how well the peasants lived under the tsar-priest ... laughing
      Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
      Although how else to look, they definitely learned nothing, deceitful pathos: the ataman of the Black Sea Cossack District Sergey Savotin put all the points on i, stating:
      As for the modern mummers, these are not Cossacks, but a bunch of clowns. Yes, we must give them their due, sometimes there is some sense in them, these are events in Transnistria, the Crimea and the Donbass. But, for the most part, these are still mummers of clowns. I say, as a direct descendant of the Don Cossacks on both the paternal and the maternal side. It painfully many of these same "Cossacks" then fought in the ranks of the Nazi troops. There is not much talk about this, but collaborators among the Cossacks were also quite numerous.
      It’s just that you can’t describe it in one comment, this is the topic of a separate article, but the Cossacks have a rather specific worldview. They always lived in a separate, privileged estate, did not like non-residents (this is all who lived in the Cossack territories, but did not belong to the Cossack estate), despised all residents of Russia without exception, not belonging to the Cossack estate. The roots of the fact that they were used as police units to suppress dissatisfaction come from here. Hence, the roots and mass service on the side of the Nazis. In general, this is a big topic, but perhaps better than all articles on this topic, this is the "Quiet Flows the Don" by Mikhail Sholokhov, he conveyed the mood of the Cossacks and their history like no other.
      And the fact that the new government is trying hard to spit on the Soviet time, in which they were under power, is just a sign of the level of meanness of people. There are a lot of such people at VO, they used to read the history of the CPSU, now they rummage through the archives digging up all sorts of rubbish about the history of the same CPSU. So there is nothing to be surprised at, and in this case we are NOT DIFFERENT from our non-brothers from 404. The only difference is that our people are still trying to resist in large quantities such imposing of a foreign story on us.
      1. karabass 13 February 2020 09: 16 New
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        No dear Alexander Suvorov, about the mummers you are 100% right - the last Cossack died long ago, but it was the Cossacks who fought for the Nazis more than 100 thousand Cossacks served in various parts of Hitler.
        And more than MILLION citizens of the USSR! So people loved Soviet power!
        And with the collapse of the USSR, almost no one was found who would like to defend it with weapons in their hands!
        Now the people live even worse than under the USSR, but that's another story.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 23 New
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          karabass (ivan)
          And more than MILLION citizens of the USSR! So people loved Soviet power!
          They say in our family not without a freak. And as for the citizens of the USSR, so you count how many of these citizens were Ukrainians, tribals, Tatars, Caucasians and other collaborators? These do not like any power in Russia, so the Soviet government has nothing to do with it!
          But the fact that millions went to death precisely for our SOVIET Motherland and for Comrade Stalin, you clearly chose to forget, didn’t you ?!
        2. Chervonny 13 February 2020 10: 27 New
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          Quote: karabass
          it was the Cossacks who fought for the Nazis; more than 100 thousand Cossacks served in various parts of Hitler.
          And more than MILLION citizens of the USSR!

          You tell these tales on foreign and liberal resources, they believe in them. And here they know the truth how much, who and how they “served” the possessed Führer.
        3. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 09 New
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          Quote: karabass
          And with the collapse of the USSR, almost no one was found who would like to defend it with weapons in their hands!

          tell me personally how you took the events of 91 years, and after that we will discuss who didn’t defend
          1. karabass 13 February 2020 13: 26 New
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            I personally thought it would be better, get rid of the shortcomings of the USSR, stop feeding other republics, make peace with Europe and America. we will develop our CX, there will be no shortage
            1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 36 New
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              Quote: karabass
              stop feeding other republics

              and what do you mean by a word, or rather stupidity, to feed? !!!!
              it’s from the series that the body is more important than the brain or ass, only when a person has hemorrhoids or diarrhea, the brain thinks of nothing more than a toilet
              and yes, I think that you are, to put it mildly, not speaking, since in 91, there was no decay in words, it was RENAME, well, as it were
              Quote: karabass
              make peace with Europe and America. we will develop our CX, there will be no shortage

              reconciled, "sausage" is enough ?!
              1. karabass 13 February 2020 13: 42 New
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                Enough reconciled and many people supported the collapse, because there was a shortage of everything, in the stores empty shelves
                Now everything is strong in hindsight, and then they thought that all products go to the republics (they did not have empty shelves in Moscow and to the stores).
                If the Communists were not idiots and did not bring the people of the USSR would have stood another 100 years
                1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 55 New
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                  Quote: karabass
                  Reconciled

                  with whom? belay
                  Quote: karabass
                  grabs

                  tell me where you can buy sausage and not a sausage product
                  Quote: karabass
                  empty shelves in stores

                  you still tell a fairy tale about vinegar in three liter jars
                  1. karabass 13 February 2020 14: 07 New
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                    This is what you ask? If people knew what would happen as they are now, then millions of people would not let the USSR collapse! But everyone thought it would be better! Only my old grandfather warned, said pick up a weapon kill the rich, but my father and I laughed
                    And now history is repeating itself, Russia is again challenging the Western world, but I think that all these petrels and avant-gardes are a loud bunch in a propaganda pipe
                    Russia is not the USSR! It is useless to lift the tail. Here was the slogan of the communists ahead! And now what will happen in case of war? Oligarchs, deputies forward? Recently, they drank with men, discussing a possible war. They came to the conclusion that if a war with America suddenly happened, our sons would need to surrender. Worse still will not be
                    1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 14: 25 New
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                      Quote: karabass
                      They came to the conclusion that if a war with America suddenly happened, our sons would need to surrender.
                      Mdaaaaaa, better shoot yourself
                      1. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 03 New
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                        The oligarchs go ahead!
                    2. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 17: 52 New
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                      Quote: karabass
                      Only my old grandfather warned, said pick up a weapon kill the rich, but my father and I laughed

                      Quote: karabass
                      Worse still will not be

                      Well, what you started for health, and ended for peace. Grandfather must obey! The old man knew what he was saying.
                  2. Fat
                    Fat 13 February 2020 16: 38 New
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                    Quote: Barmaleyka
                    you still tell a fairy tale about vinegar in three liter jars

                    About vinegar it is a bike, but seaweed and peas in chicken fat in the summer of 1991. Such a balm that you still can’t forget ...
                    1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 17: 25 New
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                      Quote: Thick
                      About vinegar is a bike

                      the TV box itself listened to what was in the shops and only vinegar in the three-liter banks
                      1. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 17: 57 New
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                        Quote: Barmaleyka
                        the TV box itself listened to what was in the shops and only vinegar in the three-liter banks

                        Those who destroyed. they deliberately made up a deficit in the country, putrefying food and dumping them in a landfill, and collective farmers were not allowed into the city on pain of death. But the main thing is that Gorbachev and his Company were allowed to export our goods abroad and they helped the West to avoid the crisis by linking a lot of their empty money, and in the USSR it turned out the opposite - a shortage of goods and a lot of unrefined rubles.
                      2. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 17: 59 New
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                        Well, I kind of lived at that time and remember him well
                      3. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 18: 07 New
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                        Quote: Barmaleyka
                        Well, I kind of lived at that time and remember him well

                        It is not enough to remember, it is also necessary to understand correctly.
                        Then the buzzards all politically illiterate brought to their ears that socialism is a dead end, that we must take the best from capitalism and from socialism and build something in between. (Theory of convergence). And the working people hung their ears, not realizing that their power was the dictatorship of the proletariat, and democracy was the power of the bourgeoisie (that is, its dictatorship).
            2. Hantengri 13 February 2020 20: 32 New
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              Quote: karabass
              and then they thought that all products go to the republics (they did not have empty shelves in stores in Moscow either

              Can you list the republics in which there were no empty shelves? I remember, in 90-91, in Tashkent, on the shelves, there was not even rice, tea, flour, and cottonseed oil, not to mention something more advanced.
              1. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 07 New
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                And what happened after 1945. until the 1980s? The country after the devastation of war. Housing, medicine, school .... But the CPSU did not want to change the laws, it was good for him. And he "ate" himself.
          2. Marine engineer 13 February 2020 14: 23 New
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            Exactly. I remember these perestroika Krasnobaev, who were talking from each iron, that everything will be as before (as in the Soviet Union) even better if we are called the CIS.
            At a rally in our city, he opposed this fornication.
        4. karabas86 13 February 2020 23: 27 New
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          It's like in a movie - When you talk, it feels like you are raving.
      2. icant007 13 February 2020 14: 35 New
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        And in the 91st year I was 16 years old.

        When I found out that the GKChP was over, I was so upset that I wanted to write leaflets in support of the GKChP myself and scatter them around the city.

        I did not understand how such masses of people (adults) could be carried away by this explicit adventurer Yeltsin.
        At the same time, I was not an ardent supporter of communism. I stood and stand on the positions of a statesman.

        One can bring any arguments against the GKChP, for example, the trembling hands of Yanaev. But these people were much more honest than all subsequent generations of power.
        1. Fat
          Fat 13 February 2020 17: 39 New
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          Quote: icant007
          And in the 91st year I was 16 years old.

          When I found out that the GKChP was over, I was so upset that I wanted to write leaflets in support of the GKChP myself and scatter them around the city.

          I did not understand how such masses of people (adults) could be carried away by this explicit adventurer Yeltsin.
          At the same time, I was not an ardent supporter of communism. I stood and stand on the positions of a statesman.

          One can bring any arguments against the GKChP, for example, the trembling hands of Yanaev. But these people were much more honest than all subsequent generations of power.

          And many predecessors too.
          And that hands were shaking ...
          GKChP knew that they had gone to the betrayal of the existing government, the oath
          They knew what awaits as in case of failure. So in case of success ...
        2. Reptiloid 13 February 2020 23: 29 New
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          And I was 91 years old at 6m. I wanted to go to school, to be October, then a pioneer, Komsomol member, border guard .....
          Close cherished ..... that the USSR did not become --- found out later .....
          I dreamed of communism and flights to other planets, in 4,5 years I learned to read ....
          Quote: icant007
          And in the 91st year I was 16 years old.

          When I found out that the GKChP was over, I was so upset that I wanted to write leaflets in support of the GKChP myself and scatter them around the city.

          I did not understand how such masses of people (adults) could be carried away by this explicit adventurer Yeltsin.
          At the same time, I was not an ardent supporter of communism.
    3. Looking for 13 February 2020 16: 57 New
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      You are also a citizen of the Russian Federation. Yes, it’s just not known for whom you will “tear your shirt” if something happens.
    4. Nikolai Korovin 13 February 2020 17: 34 New
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      By the beginning of the war in the Red Army in the Cossack divisions there were 40 cavalry regiments, 5 tank regiments, 8 artillery and mortar regiments, and 2 anti-aircraft regiments, staffed almost exclusively by Cossacks. My father served in the 5th Guards Cavalry Budapest Red Banner Don Cossack Corps from 1942 to 1945. The military way - Caucasus - Austria. I had the good fortune to talk a little with those of his colleagues at meetings of veterans in the Central Park of Culture and Culture who were still alive in the 90s. No need to tell offensive stories here.
      1. Marine engineer 13 February 2020 22: 23 New
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        The article refers to the Kuban Cossacks of the so-called. "Kuban Rada." These are not “donors”.
        Our family was evacuated to the Kuban in 1942. When the Germans took Rostov to the Don for the second time, mobilization began in the stanitsas, but first of all the evacuated people, using the nepotism, they carried information about flat feet and hernias to the military enlistment office. My great-grandfather, aged 40+, with a stomach ulcer and his eighteen-year-old daughter (my grandmother's sister) went to the front, and the boyfriends - “Cossacks” as she called them, remained.
      2. antivirus 17 February 2020 22: 10 New
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        antivirus 2 Today, 08:52 New
        father studied at Yves Energy Inst and "lived, 3 students in an apartment in 52-55 years, on the Workers' Village", it is nearby. "The owner of the house was Konnik-Chapaevite, came with Furmanov, Ivanovo weavers"
        There were 2 rooms in the house, in one of the owners (I remember by association that Gorky’s grandfather and grandmother are small. Puny (?) As it should be for a jockey rider — it’s easier for a horse, a grandmother is a large, tall, high-born), 2 sons grew up and lived separately already, their room was rented out. in 55 g, dormitories were built on the Paris Commune, and resettled there.
        I didn’t write it down and, after several years, I forgot the names of the owners of the square.
        "He said," they did everything right. so now we live like that. "I understand how --- I was pleased with my life in the 50s and my life.

        father showed
        GESTURE (ALL YOUR (them) HATE AND ALL RUSSIAN 20 CENTURY) ------

        !!! fist from chest level vertically down, like a saber from a saddle on foot !!!

        It is necessary to look at the living conditions in the center of Russia which supported the Bolsheviks.
        They fought for the lives of their children (each), saved from hunger and disease.
        The north, the less likely it is to survive the winter without Tambov bread.
        there was no single nation, the process of creating a Russian-Russian nation has not been completed yet.
        16.07.17g
        with 20 g forgave the Cossacks. who accepted the forgiveness -dying in the Second World War, who did not accept the forgiveness of the peasants-died like Krasnov
      3. raif 24 February 2020 13: 46 New
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        forgot to add "landing horse-diving divisions" laughing maybe there were cavalry divisions, "staffed almost exclusively by Cossacks," but the officers were not from the Cossacks because of restrictions on admission to military schools. there were also "Latvian / Lithuanian / Estonian", "miner" divisions, but under the conditions of the Second World War hardly anyone began to bother and distribute the recruits depending on nationality, "estate", profession.
        climbed up on the Internet to look at the "tank Cossack regiments", did not find. but I found about the Plastun DIVISIONS! and there was only one with that name - the 9th Plastun Rifle Krasnodar Red Banner, the Orders of Kutuzov and Red Star, the Volunteer Division named after the Supreme Council of the Georgian SSR.
        everything, the Cossacks as a real class / estate / group died out - since the legends and stories began to be composed
        1. Nikolai Korovin 24 February 2020 18: 11 New
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          I cannot but admit that the composition of the Cossack divisions by the beginning of the war was taken by me, perhaps from a somewhat lightweight article. However, I think that you are not very high quality google. So here you have to start the "bike" from Wikipedia. I believe that in this matter she can be trusted.

          Since February 13, 1937, Cossack divisions had the following composition: (by the way, restrictions on admission to military schools for Cossacks were by this time, if not completely removed, then significantly relaxed).

          4th Don Cossack Order of Lenin Red Banner Order of the Red Star Division named after Comrade Voroshilov
          19th Cavalry Manych Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 19th Don Cossack Manych Red Banner Regiment
          20th Cavalry Salsky Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 20th Don Cossack Salsky Red Banner Regiment
          21st Cavalry Don-Stavropol Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 21st Don Cossack Don-Stavropol Regiment
          23rd Cavalry Stalingrad Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 23rd Don Cossack Stalingrad Regiment
          4th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack mechanized regiment
          4th Cavalry Artillery Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Cavalry Artillery Regiment
          4th Separate Communications Squadron; from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
          4th Separate Engineer Squadron, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Separate Engineer Squadron
          6th Kuban-Terskaya Cossack Chongar Order of Lenin Red Banner Order of the Red Star Division named after Comrade Budyonny
          31st Cavalry Belorechensky Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 31st Kuban Cossack Belorechensky Regiment
          32nd Cavalry Beloglinsky Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 32nd Kuban Cossack Beloglinsky Regiment
          33rd Cavalry North-Don Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 33rd Kuban Cossack North-Don Regiment
          34th Cavalry Rostov Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 34th Kuban Cossack Rostov Regiment
          6th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack mechanized regiment
          6th cavalry artillery regiment, from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack cavalry artillery regiment
          6th Separate Communications Squadron; from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
          6th separate combat engineer squadron; from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack separate combat engineer squadron
          10th Terek-Stavropol Cossack Division
          68th cavalry Krasnokumsky regiment, from 13.02.37 - 68th Stavropol Cossack Krasnokumsky regiment, from 5.06.37 - 68th Stavropol Cossack regiment
          77th Cavalry Buzuluk Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 77th Terek Cossack Buzuluk Regiment
          78th cavalry regiment, from 13.02.37 - 78th Terek Cossack Nevinnomyssky cavalry regiment
          89th Cavalry Pyatigorsk Regiment named after V.V. Kuybyshev, from 13.02.37 - 89th Terek Cossack Pyatigorsk Regiment named after V.V. Kuybyshev
          10th Cavalry Artillery Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 10th Tersky Cossack Cavalry Artillery Regiment
          10th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack mechanized regiment
          10th separate combat engineer squadron, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack separate combat engineer squadron
          10th Separate Communications Squadron, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
          12th Kuban Cossack Division
          54th cavalry regiment, from 13.02.37 - 54th Kuban Cossack regiment
          67th Cavalry Caucasian Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 67th Kuban Cossack Caucasian Regiment
          69th Cavalry Uman Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 69th Kuban Cossack Uman Red Banner Regiment
          88th Cavalry Armavir Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 88th Kuban Cossack Armavir Regiment
          12th mechanized regiment
          12th Horse Artillery Regiment
          12th Separate Sapper Squadron
          12th Separate Communications Squadron
          13th Don Cossack Division
          76th Don Cossack Red Banner Regiment. t. Budyonny
          123th Don Cossack Regiment
          124th Don Cossack Regiment
          125th Don Cossack Regiment
          13th Don Cossack Mechanized Regiment
          13th Don Cossack Horse Artillery Regiment
          13th Don Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
          13th Don Cossack Separate Engineer Squadron

          Thus, on February 13.02.1937, 5, there were 20 separate Cossack divisions, including 5 cavalry regiments, not counting individual squadrons, incl. engineer, 5 mechanized regiments and 30 horse artillery regiments - that is, a total of 55 regiments against 1941 regiments in 1937, which I listed above. There are no anti-aircraft regiments and tank, but there are mechanized ones. It can be assumed that the mechanized regiments of 5 were converted into tank regiments — just XNUMX of them each, and did not manage to form new tank regiments. So far this is only my assumption, but I think that he will find confirmation.
          Thus, it turns out that from 1937 to 1941 an additional 20 cavalry regiments, 3 mortar and artillery regiments, and 2 anti-aircraft regiments were formed, which is quite consistent with the increase in the number of the Red Army for this period - even somewhat lagging behind, apparently due to the exhaustion of that moment of the Cossack draft contingent of the corresponding ages. So the formation of the above regiments took place even in peace (of course, already somewhat relative), and they could very well be formed from the Cossack contingent, owning a horse and knives. It must be assumed that the junior command staff, at least, was mainly Cossack.
          As for the headquarters officers, there may have been a significant “dilution”, but at least among the generals of Cossack origin who commanded the divisions during the Great Patriotic War, one can list S.I. Gorshkova, M.F. Maleeva, I.V. Tutarinova (later commanded by the Airborne Forces), I.P. Kalyuzhny, P.Ya. Strepukhova, M.I. Surzhikov (died in 1943 on the Voronezh Front), and possibly others - I do not pretend to be encyclopedic of knowledge in this matter.
          The composition of the Cossack divisions on June 22.06.1941, XNUMX was not immediately found, but I think there will be. Now it’s a bit of a lack of time to do this, but I think that the data given in this comment is enough to argue that the data on the composition of the Cossack divisions given by me above are not “linden”. On occasion, I will clarify this issue. So you hastened to laugh a little - there is nothing funny, everything is completely true.
          1. raif 24 February 2020 18: 50 New
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            I was looking specifically for tank and anti-aircraft regiments. for I didn’t doubt the cavalry at first - so I laughed on time. the first thing I looked at was the same link on the same Wiki - you could have guessed and not copied “a lot of bukoffs”, a good job came out, adnaka. but if there are real links to serious articles about tank units, I’ll read it with pleasure. the number of officers you cited will not be enough even for a couple of battalions, but the restrictions on admitting Cossacks to military schools were canceled already during the Second World War.
    5. Marine engineer 13 February 2020 21: 24 New
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      “And with the collapse of the USSR, almost no one was found who would like to defend it with weapons in their hands!”

      The people were deceived.
  2. Chervonny 13 February 2020 10: 24 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    a vivid example of being in a coma is our Romanian "friend" and "guardian for Russia that they lost," Mr. Olgovich.

    So is he Romanian? belay Did not know. He thought simply a "guardian" for an incomprehensible chauvinistic "white idea".
    As for the article itself, I think the article is correct. Every liberda and foreign "Russian patriots" are trying to rewrite our history, ready to justify all those who were against the Soviet regime, including traitors such as Kolchak, Shkuro, Vlasov.
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 10: 27 New
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      Chervonny
      So is he Romanian? belay Do not know.
      Actually, he is a citizen of Moldova, but you yourself know how many Romanians there are. Moreover, only Romanians can hate the USSR so, therefore Romanians!
      1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 10: 45 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Actually, he is a citizen of Moldova, but you yourself know how many Romanians there are. Moreover, only Romanians can hate the USSR so, therefore Romanians!

        Russia, chop on your forehead, these are not the flawswhat you left from her in 1917-1940:

        Russia is including Bessarabia. . as part of Novorosiathat you TRIENTLY gave to Ukraine and Moldova, contrary to the will of their inhabitants.:
        Bessarabia did NOT want any "Moldova and Ukraine"

        Exactly one hundred years back YOU created the so-called Donetsk province, where Donbass was FORCED.
        I., accordingly, because of YOU today, Russians are killed there by the so-called Ukraine
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 11: 32 New
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          Olgovich (Andrey)
          Exactly one hundred years ago, YOU created the so-called. Donetsk province, where Donbass was FORCED.
          I., accordingly, because of YOU today, Russians are killed there by the so-called Ukraine
          You, that not a word is another frank FALSE! One hundred years ago (to be exact, 102 years), Russians, Jews, commissars, and everyone who did not share the ideas of independence, including those beloved by whites, were killed with the same excitement in already independent Ukraine. And who is to blame? Don’t go to the grandmother, of course the Bolsheviks ... laughing laughing laughing It’s they who created the damned ones, Skoropadsky, Petlyura, Makhno and several hundred more local bateks of a smaller rank. Walk the field, too, clearly the Bolsheviks came up with ... laughing
          I’m curious about Mr. Bulkohrust, you’re really not afraid, you’re like all the “believers” ?! And if there, after death, is there really something? Not afraid for your lies forever in a pan to fry?
          1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 11: 39 New
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            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            You, that not a word is another frank FALSE! One hundred years ago (or rather, 102 years) in already then independent Ukraine

            ignoramus, still RAZ: Donetsk province as part of Ukraine established in 1920 year . your Criminals FORCIDELY, against the will of citizens, they severed the Donbass (DKR) from Russia and included it in ... Ukraine.

            Those. you ... for maidan?

            When will you go to school, ignoramus?
            1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 11: 58 New
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              Ignoramus myself, where does the Donetsk province? When did Ukraine actually break away at the end of 1917?
              Unlike Petrograd, where dual power (Provisional Government and Petrosoviet) took shape and established itself from the first days of the revolution, the third force, the Central Rada, entered the arena of political life in Kiev. The founding date of this organization, the task of which its creators determined the coordination of the national movement, is March 4 (17), and the initiators of its creation were moderate liberals from the Partnership of Ukrainian Progressives led by Yevgeny Chikalenko, Sergey Efremov, Dmitry Doroshenko together with the Social Democrats led by Vladimir Vinnichenko (a few weeks later, the Ukrainian Socialist Revolutionaries also joined the activities of the Central Council [15]).

              On March 3 (16) at the general meeting of representatives of political, social, cultural and professional organizations, the formation of a public committee was announced. Among its members there was no consensus on the future status of Ukraine. Supporters of independence (independents), headed by N. Mikhnovsky, advocated the immediate declaration of independence.
              That in March 1917 in Ukraine, too, the Bolsheviks had time to check in?
              The tsarist government was primarily guilty of the split in the country, including on ethnic grounds, and then the provisional government finished off what they did not have time with the tsar. The Bolsheviks inherited a completely decayed country from which they later created the USSR.
              So go to school, study, study and study, as grandfather Lenin bequeathed. Although in your clinical case only lobotomy and brain replacement, otherwise you can’t beat your crap out!
              1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 12: 10 New
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                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Ignoramus myself, where does the Donetsk province? When did Ukraine actually break away at the end of 1917?

                with that. what's in her you are forcibly included DONBASS, where before that there was the DKR in the composition of RUSSIA.

                Got it. not?
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                That in March 1917 in Ukraine, too, the Bolsheviks had time to check in?

                WHAT was there in March 17? lol
                NOTHING other than CHAT.
                to the thief. as recognized themselves UK.RISTORIKI. lovers loops. [b] Savchenko [/ b]:
                "real power belonged To the interim government"

                when you go to school. and? lol
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                The Bolsheviks inherited a completely decayed country from which they later created the USSR.

                ALL Independenceonly announced after the thief and her stupid decrees.

                this is also given at school. yes
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Although in your clinical case only lobotomy and brain replacementdifferently yours dope not knock out!

                immediately see: Bolshevik! good lol
                1. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 12: 54 New
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                  to the thief. as recognized themselves UK.RISTORIKI. lovers loops. Savchenki:
                  "the real power belonged to the Provisional Government"

                  You have already been asked the question, why do you pull out one phrase?
                  He wrote in plain text that the power belonged to the Provisional Government in Kiev, because the troops of the Provisional Government were brought into Kiev. And not because the population recognized this power.
                  1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 26 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    You have already been asked the question, why do you pull out one phrase?
                    He wrote in plain text that the power belonged to the Provisional Government in Kiev, because the troops of the Provisional Government were brought into Kiev. And not because the population recognized this power.

                    you liar and you have repeatedly given the literal quote of the Ukrainian nationalist Savchenko:
                    From March 1917 to April 1918, the famous Ukrainian historian and democratic leader Mikhail Grushevsky {1} stood at the head of the Central Rada, the head of the not yet created executive power (power vertical) in Ukrainian provinces sought to become the head of the General Secretariat (Council of Ministers), fashionable Ukrainian writer, playwright and revolutionary Vladimir Vinnichenko {2}.
                    Despite the self-declaration of Ukraine’s autonomy, back in June 1917, this autonomy did not really exist until the end of October 1917oh since real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia held the Provisional Government of the Russian Republic.

                    How much can you lie?
                    and further:
                    Only with the fall of the Provisional Government opportunities opened in Petrograd transfer of all power in Ukraine to the hands of the Central Council. Central Council was able to interceptthe power that fell into her hands and on November 7, 1917, it was ready to proclaim the Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR) in the territory of eight provinces: Kiev, Volyn, Podolsk, Kherson, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kharkov, Yekaterinoslav and counties of Northern Tavria.

                    Those. The Thief created this animal-Ukraine and RECOGNIZED its Independence.
                  2. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 13: 45 New
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                    Well, you are a vile person (and to hear this from a person who has the word "vile" in the nickname on the forum - this is an assessment).
                    And now I will give you a full passage, because for some reason you again missed a little detail in yours:
                    After the failed Bolshevik uprising and withdrawal from Kiev troops loyal to the Provisional Government The Central Council was able to seize the power that fell into her hands and on November 7, 1917, proclaimed the Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR) on the territory of eight provinces: Kiev, Volyn, Podolsky, Kherson, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kharkov, Yekaterinoslav and counties of Northern Tavria.

                    Why did you decide to throw out the highlighted text, but, "you are not our forum forum liar"?
                    Maybe because he confirms my words that the power of the temporary workers was recognized only because their troops were in Kiev? Troops came out, recognition also disappeared.
                  3. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 59 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Well, you are a vile man (and to hear this from a person who has the word "vile" in his nickname on the forum is an assessment).

                    Yes spit me- on your estimates me-how much can I repeat? request hi
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Why did you decide to throw out the highlighted text, but, "you are not our forum forum liar"?

                    dear man, don’t remember yourself at all already - this:
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    He says in plain text that power belonged to the Provisional Government in Kiev, because the troops of the Provisional Government were introduced into Kiev. And not because this authorities recognized the populatione.

                    WHERE is this phrase from Savchenko about ... introduced troops, on whose bayonets the power was held, liar?
                    and where is the phrase about .... "unrecognizing" population, liar?
                    and where does the kyiv that you wrote, liar. when it comes to ALL of Little Russia:
                    until the end of October 1917, since real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia held the Provisional Government of the Russian Republic.

                    Ps. In the Russian city of Kiev, troops should not be introduced. They are there were
                  4. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 14: 21 New
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                    dear man, don’t remember yourself at all already - this:

                    And these my words are highlighted as a quote? No. This is my retelling of the text of the book.
                    Phraseologism “in clear text” does not mean “literally”, but “without hints, without hiding”. And Savchenko, without hints, and without hiding, writes that
                    After ... the withdrawal from Kiev of loyal troops to the Provisional Government, the Central Council was able to seize the power that fell into her hands

                    All. Dot.
                    And here you are highlighting the text as a quote from the middle of the text these lines .... uh ... removed. Ah, how bad.
                    No matter how you roam out - but a stubborn fact, that territory, as soon as it found out that they had asked for the Temporary, also told all the Adyu. And only the presence of troops kept people from saying Adju earlier on that territory. By the way, Savchenko used this very word
                    since the real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia held Provisional Government of the Russian Republic.

                    When the power needs to be held, it means they do not recognize it, but only endure it.
                  5. Olgovich 13 February 2020 14: 53 New
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                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    And these my words Highlighted as a quote? No. It my retelling text of the book.

                    а whose words you retold. and? mine, Savchenko? lol whose voobu retell. a 7
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    Phraseologism “in clear text” does not mean “literally”, but “without hints, without hiding”. And Savchenko, without hints, and without hiding writes,

                    yes, writes DIRECTLY the opposite of your delirium-
                    until the end of October 1917, since real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia was held by the Provisional Government Russian republic.

                    и not a word of your delirium about the troops introduced in Kiev and the non-recognition of the population.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic
                    no matter how you roam

                    So you yourself ran into your lies.
                    Quote: A vile skeptic

                    When power is needed to hold, it means they don’t recognize her, but only forced to endure.

                    and who needs it verbiage?
            2. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 14: 28 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              Those. The Thief created this animal-Ukraine and RECOGNIZED its Independence.

              And before that?
              “The Ukrainian“ national liberation movement ”developed by leaps and bounds in the first months of 1917. The Central Council enjoyed great success among Ukrainian peasants and soldiers.
              The most zealous “independents” demanded to end long and “unnecessary” negotiations with the Provisional Government and to withdraw the Ukrainian soldiers from the front, i.e. to bare the front.
              The separatist policy of the Rada, at first more disguised, and then more and more frank, eventually turned into the formula: “Enough of the Great Russians! Three hundred years they dominated us! Get away from Ukraine! Long live independent Ukraine! ”
              The main tribune and mouthpiece of the Ukrainian separatist movement was the Ukrainian military congresses: the preaching of separatism began to be heard louder and louder and spread wider and wider among the soldier and peasant masses. Relying on these Troops congresses, who wished for an end to the war at all costs and as soon as possible, in order to "divide the land of the land." The Council gradually ceased to reckon with the power of the Kiev Executive Committee in Kiev, and in Petrograd with the power of the Provisional Government, announcing everywhere since May 1917 that the Ukrainian people recognize only one power over themselves, namely the power of the Central Rada.
              ....
              At the end of May, a delegation of the Ukrainian Rada headed by Vinnichenko went to Petrograd with a demand to recognize the autonomy of Ukraine as part of the future Russian Republic and organize Ukrainian units in the army. But the Provisional Government and the Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies refused to accept these demands.
              Then the Ukrainian Rada, contrary to the ban of Kerensky, convened the 2nd Ukrainian Military Congress in mid-June (500 delegates - representatives from 2 million Ukrainians in the army). After the congress, the Rada issued the I Universal (Manifesto) on June 28.6.1917, XNUMX, which stated that Ukraine takes on the task of building its future: "We will build our own lives." At the same time, the highest body of Ukrainian executive power was created - the General Secretariat (Council of Ministers), headed by Vinnichenko and Petlyura. The secretariat took control of Ukraine.
              The Provisional Government in vain requested the Rada to wait until the convocation and decision of the future Constituent Assembly. A delegation led by Kerensky was sent to Kiev to negotiate with the Rada. Negotiations actually ended with the victory of the Rada "(Poletika)
            3. Olgovich 13 February 2020 14: 58 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And before that?

              before that, the modern-day nationalist Savchenko, an amateur of Petlyura and Grushevsky, was forced to recognize:
              until the end of October 1917 since real power in the so-called South-Western provinces of Russia was held by the Provisional Government Russian republic.

              recognized it and Bolsheviks in the "manifesto to the UKR people
            4. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 15: 12 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              modern nationalist Savchenko

              Namely: MODERN. Contemporaries of those years (eyewitnesses) say otherwise.
            5. Fat
              Fat 13 February 2020 17: 01 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Quote: Olgovich
              modern nationalist Savchenko

              Namely: MODERN. Contemporaries of those years (eyewitnesses) say otherwise.

              It should be noted ...
              That 99,9% of the participants in the Battle of Borodino of 1912, who ate pickles, had already died.
              Summary: salt and cucumbers in the complex - deadly Poison ... Is it Sakhar Medovich, then contemporaries ...
              You can’t argue ... We whispered this.
            6. Olgovich 14 February 2020 07: 38 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Namely: MODERN. Contemporaries of those years (eyewitnesses) say otherwise.

              The Bolsheviks of those years, too, say the same thing-the MANIFESTO of their reading, how many times to repeat?
          2. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 17: 33 New
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            the Bolsheviks recognized this in the "manifesto to the Ukr people

            In the manifesto, the Provisional Government is not mentioned at all, and all the more there is not a word about how he had power in these provinces in the summer and autumn of 1917.
          3. Olgovich 14 February 2020 07: 40 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            In the manifesto, the Provisional Government is not mentioned at all,

            Go to school, huh?
          4. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 10: 06 New
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            Go to school, huh?

            To tell children to study, otherwise they will become like you? Okay, I’ll come and tell you. tongue
          5. Olgovich 14 February 2020 11: 11 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Go to school, huh?

            To tell children to study, otherwise they will become like you? Okay, I’ll come and tell you. tongue

            Learn what you do not know:
            The Central Council entered into an agreement with the counter-revolutionary government of Kerensky on the question of how many provinces the imperialist Russian bourgeoisie deigned to include in Ukraine. The Central Rada sent delegations to Petrograd to Kerensky and Nekrasov and patiently endured the bullying of these delegations by these counter-revolutionary rulers. But the Central Rada did not take a single step to enter into an agreement with the Government of workers and peasants, which opened the way for all the peoples of Russia to freedom and happiness.
          6. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 11: 32 New
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            Documents are called as they are called. If the document is called
            Appeal ... to all Ukrainian people

            then don’t talk about the manifest so that there’s no confusion with
            Manifesto to the Ukrainian people ...
          7. Olgovich 14 February 2020 11: 50 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            Documents are called as they are called. If the document is called
            Appeal ... to all Ukrainian people

            then don’t talk about the manifest so that there’s no confusion with
            Manifesto to the Ukrainian people ...

            There were only TWO manifestos among the people (Manifesto (from the late Lat. Manifestum "Appeal, appeal ") at the same time.

            Such things could be known.

            And in the Bible of Moscow State University all this Bolshevik nonsense is united in Decrees of the Soviet government 1917-1918
          8. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 13: 22 New
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            Such things could be known.

            What you need to know for sure is the difference between proper names and common nouns.

            PS And why did they add the word "appeal" to the translation of the Latin word)))) It is, of course, synonyms. But in the dictionaries met the use of only one word. Maybe I didn’t look at those)
  • Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 11 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    ALL independence is declared only after the thief and her stupid decrees.

    But do not specify the root cause of October?
  • Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 13: 10 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Ignoramus myself, where does the Donetsk province? When did Ukraine actually break away at the end of 1917?

    in summer
  • Fat
    Fat 13 February 2020 16: 53 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    learn as grandfather Lenin bequeathed. Although in your clinical case only lobotomy and brain replacement, otherwise you can’t beat your crap out!

    Grandfather Lenin was a half-educated student, so he bequeathed, something that he himself did not achieve. Not without talent, but also without a normal education.
    As they say, in your clinical case, there is absolutely the opposite. And then generally "perpendicular"
    1. ccsr 13 February 2020 18: 50 New
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      Quote: Thick
      Grandfather Lenin was a dropout

      You are probably against his background, "genius" look, with the current diploma of some muddy sharagi, who would doubt ....
      1. Fat
        Fat 13 February 2020 19: 12 New
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        Quote: ccsr
        Quote: Thick
        Grandfather Lenin was a dropout

        You are probably against his background, "genius" look, with the current diploma of some muddy sharagi, who would doubt ....

        Not ... I didn’t finish the academy (the KSAA academy even during the USSR) ... But I didn’t drive the masses with my hand and I’m not trying to translate Webbov in Shushensky ...
        Yes, it seems that the genius has not joined the party, nor any other that sometimes happens
  • Aviator_ 13 February 2020 16: 06 New
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    As for the modern "Cossacks" I would like to note the following. There were Cossacks Dremova, who honestly fought in the Donbass, and were mummers there, forgot the name of their "chieftain", in 2014 did not climb out of the TV, found in Krasnodon, that is, in the rear, and was related to the coal business.
    1. Aviator_ 13 February 2020 17: 57 New
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      I remembered this ataman-businessman. That was Kozitsin.
  • Fat
    Fat 13 February 2020 16: 09 New
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    Quote: Alexander Suvorov
    Well, yes, a vivid example of being in a coma is our Romanian "friend" and "guardian for Russia that they lost," Mr. Olgovich. This one doesn’t come out of a coma at all, and broadcasts from there how well the peasants lived under the tsar-priest ...

    Well, you know. For example, I respect the opuses of Olgovich. It is difficult to perceive, but when checking ... Well, God bless him and his 5 million square kilometers ... But in fact, many workers in the Republic of Ingushetia were much more prosperous than the hegemons of the thirties ...
    I think. A monument is needed to REMEMBER. And what will you do with it ... To rotten eggs rotten by the anniversary, or to wear bouquets. The personal file of the citizen and his memory of the CIVIL WAR. It’s not worth confusing the Hitler’s compromisers, they’re just traitors. Without an oath and honor.
    And let the horse stand. This is the memory, if not of the Great, but significant part of OUR people.
    1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 17: 44 New
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      Quote: Thick
      But in fact, many workers in RI were much more prosperous than the hegemons of the thirties ..

      EAT. Dementiev in his study cited comparative data on wages in various industries of the Moscow province

      per month it was:
      for men - 14 rubles. 16 cop.,
      for women - 10 rubles. 35 cop.,
      in adolescents - 7 rubles. 27 cop.,
      for young workers - 5 rubles. 08 cents.
      prices in 1913
      Chicken - 1.28 r / kg
      Bread - 20 kopecks / kg
      Potato - 11 kopecks / kg
      Meat (sternum) - 54 kopecks / kg
      Milk - 13 kopecks / liter



      According to the RSFSR, the average monthly salary for March 1936 was:
      In large industry - 231 rubles.
      In construction - 224 rubles.
      goose 10 rubles pcs
      white bread - 1,70 r / kg
      rye bread - 0,85 r / kg
      meat for cooking - from 6 to 7 r / kg
      1. Fat
        Fat 13 February 2020 18: 54 New
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        Quote: Barmaleyka
        Quote: Thick
        But in fact, many workers in RI were much more prosperous than the hegemons of the thirties ..

        EAT. Dementiev in his study cited comparative data on wages in various industries of the Moscow province

        per month it was:
        for men - 14 rubles. 16 cop.,
        for women - 10 rubles. 35 cop.,
        in adolescents - 7 rubles. 27 cop.,
        for young workers - 5 rubles. 08 cents.
        prices in 1913
        Chicken - 1.28 r / kg
        Bread - 20 kopecks / kg
        Potato - 11 kopecks / kg
        Meat (sternum) - 54 kopecks / kg
        Milk - 13 kopecks / liter



        According to the RSFSR, the average monthly salary for March 1936 was:
        In large industry - 231 rubles.
        In construction - 224 rubles.
        goose 10 rubles pcs
        white bread - 1,70 r / kg
        rye bread - 0,85 r / kg
        meat for cooking - from 6 to 7 r / kg

        A skilled worker at a state-owned factory in Izhevsk received more work than workers at the Tretyakovsky linen factory in Kostroma.
        You can draw any statistics, it depends on the customer))
        No need to refer to the average for the hospital, it's stupid just ...
        What industry was in your city?
        Maybe just go to the museum and pounds with kg should not be confused.
        There was an article on cow prices on the VO
        Probably the Izhevsk, Votkinsk workers in the summer of 1918 from the pleasure of the Esser Bolshevik Soviets raised a rebellion. The rebellion swept more than a million people. Volunteers gathered and armed 25.
        Russian working Vendée in no way ..
        And so much to the proletarians?
        1. Barmaleyka 13 February 2020 21: 11 New
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          what is the problem, bring a comparison table, because it’s YOU wrote what happened in the 30s worse, I gave the numbers, you do not
          1. Fat
            Fat 13 February 2020 23: 46 New
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            Quote: Barmaleyka
            what is the problem, bring a comparison table, because it’s YOU wrote what happened in the 30s worse, I gave the numbers, you do not

            https://topwar.ru/8443-korova-za-tri-rublya-ceny-i-zhalovaniya-v-carskoy-rossii.html
            This article is on the HE "A cow for three rubles. Prices and salaries in Tsarist Russia" dated November 16, 2011 ...
            Specialists at RI state-owned factories, kaftanschiki (awarded with green kaftanan with gold galloon from the crown service)
            Even by the standards of the Republic of Ingushetia, they earned a prohibitive amount for the proletarians.
            These were gunsmiths, metallurgists, locksmiths. Babkin’s sister was just such a locksmith.
            Well, by the way, in Soviet factories such workers were not raised as an "ordinary engineer." Yes, and my mother’s brother, there was a locksmith from God. At the end of the 50s, he traveled to Izhevsk in Moscow ...
            1. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 08: 24 New
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              Quote: Thick
              This article is on the HE "A cow for three rubles. Prices and salaries in Tsarist Russia" dated November 16, 2011 ...

              at least read the article so that you don’t sit in a puddle
              Meanwhile, the ratio between real wages and prices in Russia 1913 of the year was not at all as rosy as it is customary to draw it now.

              further we are not talking about whether it was possible or impossible to buy a cow for a worker, although it is not clear why a worker in a city needs a cow, in the Republic of Ingushetia, but we compare the standard of living of a worker in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR in the 30s
              1. Fat
                Fat 14 February 2020 17: 33 New
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                Well, for sure, you leafed through an article without reading. You are in the theater of your own conviction. How many photos did the master cost, guardian? No matter what the family with the traditions, so the photo collages in the frames in the red corner ... And what about mom’s photo album?
                Do you respect the traditions? So you have nothing to inherit.
                The loader is no match for the master.
                To each according to his work?
                For the servant of the servant, I don’t care for 5-6 rubles with a room and a pig.
                Izhevsky, an ordinary worker of 4-6 children, kept and lived in his house, not in the barracks, and that’s all for a quarter of Katya a month.
                And "Muscovites ruined the housing issue" (C)
                Not?
                1. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 17: 45 New
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                  again give a COMPARATIVE analysis, the price but at msl at 13, the price at 30, the salary at 13, the salary at 30, everything else is from the evil one
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 14 February 2020 18: 23 New
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                    No, from the communist plow-headed common fund.
                    Sly., This is your part ... Propaganda-agitational.
                    * Prices in the USSR for 1935, after the cancellation of the cards, (the maximum wage of a worker is 170 rubles, along with the prices I give the amount that could be bought for the whole salary):
                    1 kg of white bread 1,10 r (154,5 kg)
                    1 kg of cooked sausage 12 r (14,2 kg)
                    1 kg of sugar 4,50 r (37,7 kg)
                    1 kg of butter 15 r (11,3 kg) *
                    This opus was published by someone Alex Butko in 2010 ...
                    Believe this, well, "no way." Like your “tsifiri”
                    Margarine, have you come up with excess fat? Not? For oil at the grocery store? In OPC and not all ...
                    Pre-war wealth legend is not inferior to French rolls.
                    And do not crunch quality white bread after one hour after baking.
                    In the course of the bar, crackers used ...
                  2. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 19: 34 New
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                    I won’t even argue, it’s pointless
                    simple and distinct
                    how much could I buy kg of meat and bread on my paycheck, why else would you be a worker at 13 and how much could you at 30, leave verbiage and snot on a plate, give clear and intelligible data
    2. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 14 New
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      Yes, how much can one side of the scales show !. Come on the SECOND side of the balance, otherwise it is half pregnant. Well, if it’s not clear, how many kg of flour, pea potato sugar ... earned.
      1. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 09: 37 New
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        Sorry, but I showed TWO sides in both 13 and 30
        1. Fat
          Fat 14 February 2020 19: 59 New
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          Quote: Barmaleyka
          Sorry, but I showed TWO sides in both 13 and 30

          Not what you did not bring and did not show!
          This is about 36 and 45 years after the cancellation of cards. From 1.1.1936 the card system for all goods was canceled. This caused a new sharp increase in prices. Meat, which cost 1,2-1,5 rubles / kg, began to cost 5-6 rubles / kg, and in 1940, beef already cost 10-12 rubles / kg, pork - 14-17 rubles. (beginning and end of the year). Thus, the price increase over 4 years amounted to 7-9 times. Wallpaper rye bread from flour - 0,85 p., Wheat from wheat of the 11th grade - 1,7 p.
          The average monthly salary in the country around this period was: 1934 - 136 rubles, 1940 - 339 rubles, that is, over 6 years the salary increased only 2,5 times.

          The liberals give the following price table in 1935, with the calculation of how much goods could be bought:
          USSR, the average salary of 170 p.
          1 kg of white bread 1,10 r (154,5 kg)
          1 kg of cooked sausage 12 r (14,2 kg)
          1 kg of sugar 4,50 r (37,7 kg)
          1 kg of butter 15 r (11,3 kg)
          Poland, the average salary of a worker is 120 zł:
          1 kg of white bread - 0,35 zł (342,8 kg)
          1 kg of cooked sausage 2 zł (60 kg)
          1 kg of sugar 1 zloty (120 kg)
          1 kg butter 2 (60 kg)
          Germany, the average salary of a German worker is 130 Reichsmarks:
          1 kg of white bread 0,36 m (361 kg)
          1 kg of cooked sausage 2,70 m (48 kg)
          1 kg of sugar 0,80 m (162 kg)
          1 kg of butter 3 m - maximum price (43 kg)
          (Economics of the Stalinist village http://www.politforums.ru/monarch/1380981638.html
          How the builders of Soviet civilization lived http://www.patriotica.ru/books/sov_civ1/s1-12.html
          1. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 20: 39 New
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            once again for the gifted (last)
            provide data on how much meat a worker could buy in his salary in the year 13 and how much in 30
            not standing up to give such an analysis do not be clever

            ps you stubbornly climb into a puddle like all the baker crunches, before comparing the incomes of the workers of the USSR and the West, compare the Republic of Ingushetia and the West and keep in mind that there were DECADES of peaceful life in the Republic of Ingushetia, and the USSR was in ruin after the civil war
            1. Fat
              Fat 14 February 2020 21: 01 New
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              A cho clever! Which worker? Scrap driver or a professional machine tool? Where to buy on the market or on coupons in the tri-hills in the factory shop? And how to share and take away you the best to know. It is impossible to distribute the goods fairly when leveling. Agitprop accountants have used and still use it. Both leftists, and complete liberals.
              Nobody will chew the digital to you honestly. All statistics are collected only to please the authorities. But in no way will she help the researcher. Absolutely.
              Contemporaries whisper this to Sahara Medovich.
              I have only one witness. Babkin photo album and Singer 1898 in the barn as an artifact.
              1. Barmaleyka 14 February 2020 21: 17 New
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                everything, the debate is over, you are an illiterate troll who does not have any idea about the analysis of information, are FREE, crunch a bun in another place
                p / s / pay attention to a singer, not a Russian sewing machine, but under the Union in our country they were made, unlike RI
                p / s / 2 origin from noblemen and Cossacks, but unlike you, I am critical of that time
                1. Fat
                  Fat 14 February 2020 21: 47 New
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                  I didn’t breed you. Leave your weighty highly learned word to yourself.
                  In order to analyze the data. It is necessary to have reliable Old. She is not online.
                  PS. Do it right, take RI critically. There is no such rampant liberalism even now. As for the Podolsk cars ... Some are good without words, and some other rubbish. Singer doesn’t care what the canvas, what the cambric. Therefore, not in a landfill.
                  There were no nobles in the family, all served. But we have the honor
  • Bar2 13 February 2020 08: 53 New
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    the cross is somehow not Orthodox, but Celtic. Who invents such symbolism?
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 08: 58 New
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      Bar2 (Paul)
      the cross is somehow not Orthodox, but Celtic.
      Who served, that and the cross.
      Who is inventing such symbolism?
      Descendants of collaborators and traitors.
      1. Bar2 13 February 2020 09: 18 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Who served, that and the cross.

        Celts, what did the Cossacks and White Guards serve? Good answer.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 26 New
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      Bar2 (Paul)
      In general, old maps reveal to us the essence of the psychology of modern peoples.
      Ohhh, it started. fool Few sick Bulk Khrusts, still sick fool alternative workers pulled themselves up ...
      1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 09: 29 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Bar2 (Paul)
        Catch Bulcohr addict fomenkoida!
      2. Bar2 13 February 2020 09: 32 New
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        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Ohhh, it started. Few sick Bulk-crunches, so sick alternative Alternativeists pulled themselves up ...

        smart guy, recalls one historian-propagandist-Spitsin, that same peremptory-the main plug in any barrel.
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 42 New
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          Bar2 (Paul)
          smart guy, recalls one historian-propagandist-Spitsin, that same peremptory-the main plug in any barrel.
          Sorry, but reading this is your nonsense.
          But the existence of the Cossack people, who called themselves differently (Tartars is the western name), was hidden both by tsars and Bolsheviks, and by modern authorities. It is the concealment of the Cossacks that unites these three authorities.
          the same brain breakthrough can be earned!
          In connection with your comments, I have one question, what are you using, what is so brain twisted?
          No, well, seriously, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU HERE CARE HERE ?! If you are not a bot and really believe in what you are writing, then your head is even worse than that of olgovich, because such nonsense in normal consciousness cannot be carried!
          1. Fat
            Fat 13 February 2020 17: 30 New
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            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            Bar2 (Paul)
            smart guy, recalls one historian-propagandist-Spitsin, that same peremptory-the main plug in any barrel.
            Sorry, but reading this is your nonsense.
            But the existence of the Cossack people, who called themselves differently (Tartars is the western name), was hidden both by tsars and Bolsheviks, and by modern authorities. It is the concealment of the Cossacks that unites these three authorities.
            the same brain breakthrough can be earned!
            In connection with your comments, I have one question, what are you using, what is so brain twisted?
            No, well, seriously, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU HERE CARE HERE ?! If you are not a bot and really believe in what you are writing, then your head is even worse than that of olgovich, because such nonsense in normal consciousness cannot be carried!

            I have a mortal hostility towards the Baburin Front of National Salvation.
            A good pill like this is the hostility to the union of all oppositions.
            Well it was necessary to think out the union of Russia and the USSR.
            The crossed black-gold-silver flags and the red flag have thought of it. Left for mass and right for organizing a protest ...
            Cho are you lying for the Reds, cho is heaped for the liberals.
            At one mill you pour your propaganda ... Pig-iron people.
            Anyway, if only to add some problems ...
            This is enough.
            Wild officials "on feeding", sanctions, poverty from unemployment - lawlessness.
  • Jarserge 13 February 2020 09: 48 New
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    The peculiarity of the Civil War is precisely that it is useless to look for the right and the guilty. I can cite facts, not literary ones, namely, why the Cossacks so “flew” ... The Whites generally went to war for one purpose, to defeat the innocent and shoot the guilty. Here is such an ideology and in fact establish the power of Anglo-French capital. Cossacks are especially distinguished, from robberies to atrocities. Behind the Cossack units marched carts that took out almost everything, leaving behind only the gallows. I hope there is no need to talk about cut stars sprinkled with salt? So when they started cutting stripes and pouring salt, the Cossacks are still shouting "what for us?" If it’s hard to read Ivanov’s book, it’s a white investigator in exile who wrote a book about atrocities on both sides, read the memoirs of white generals where they actually blame the Cossacks for disobedience atrocities and robberies
    1. ccsr 13 February 2020 11: 22 New
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      Quote: Jarserge
      The peculiarity of the Civil War is precisely that it is useless to look for the right and the guilty.

      Yes, this is exactly the case, and all attempts to evaluate what happened a hundred years ago in the country with our current views on history are the same as deciding how inhumanly Peter the Great acted with the archers when he crushed their rebellion. I think that if the archers had won, Peter himself would have been hanged, and no less blood would have been shed.
      So I agree with the author of the article that posed the question
      How much can you dance on this historical rake, solving your local shallow grass puzzles?
      , because such questions should be decided by historians, and not some local "ideological fighters for banknotes."
      1. Victor N 14 February 2020 13: 41 New
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        Not far from Gelendzhik there is a place called "Officer's Rock". The late great-grandmother, who was born in Gelendzhik and survived the Civil War there as an adult, having children, said that the place was named so because the officers were thrown off a cliff - she does not know who.
        1. ccsr 14 February 2020 17: 29 New
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          Quote: Victor N
          survived the adult Civil War there, having children, she said that the place was named so because officers were thrown off a cliff - she does not know who.

          My grandmother's brother died at the same time, and on whose side he was fighting, none of the relatives knew. This does not bother me at all - he is only a victim of that great tragedy, and it is not for me to judge for his choice. So it's time to come to terms with the choice of their ancestors in that war, but betrayal can never be forgiven. And it was unfortunately, and this was manifested even in the Great Patriotic War by those who went to serve the Germans.
    2. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 17 New
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      Oh, like the modern Dobrobats of the outskirts - they exported and sent the loot from the Donbass.
  • Ryazan87 13 February 2020 11: 25 New
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    One question interests me: are you yourself ready for any kind of reconciliation? How do you imagine him? Answer, if not difficult, of course.
    1. Jarserge 13 February 2020 12: 21 New
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      Interest Ask. For example, I did not fight in the civilian. My paternal ancestors simply did not intervene, stayed as far as I know (I won’t be surprised that something is hidden there). On the maternal side, they fought, given that the grandfather had eleven brothers, some fought for the Reds, others for the whites and two brothers managed to fight for Petliura. With whom to try on and to whom? It’s just our story. We need to understand it and draw conclusions. Only stupid or vile people will continue to break their spears. No more.
    2. Fat
      Fat 13 February 2020 18: 07 New
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      Quote: Ryazanets87
      One question interests me: are you yourself ready for any kind of reconciliation? How do you imagine him? Answer, if not difficult, of course.

      My great-grandfather served the Life Guards Semenovsky ..
      Grandfather at the Red Guard was ..
      Father began his service at 42 in 5 airborne troops ...
      He finished ... November 17, 42 in the territory of the Oktyabrsky plant as part of the 39th Guardsmen.
      Are you ready for reconciliation?
      Yes, already reconciled.
      The doctor said: this is not schizophrenia.
      Thanks for that.
      Otherwise, how can we accept the great-grandfather and father dispossessed of the denunciation, an ardent communist, that even the cross on his body threw out before his death ...
      In different ways, but both loved their homeland.
      To death...
    3. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 07: 36 New
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      Under two conditions. The tsarobozhniki are different, the descendants of the unfinished who fled to France, are silent in a rag and are silent on the topic of repentance for the sins of the red power and other nonsense and perceive everything as it is. This is all the story of great Russia, and in the civil war 90 percent of the fault of the elites of that time. Then yes
      1. Ryazan87 4 May 2020 11: 26 New
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        Of course, this is not reconciliation. This is simply a proposal, and rather crude, to recognize the complete truth of the Bolsheviks and all the actions of the Soviet government. Plus, the claim, judging by the terms used, is on the ideological monopoly of perception of these events, which by the standards of 2020 is somewhat strange. ChTD.
        1. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 14: 51 New
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          And what kind of reconciliation do you want? Pay and repent?
          Do not want to remember and repent for liberation from serfdom with a delay of a hundred years, and even with the redemption of their own land in a mortgage for 49 years?
          As they said about the Bourbons, they didn’t understand anything, and they didn’t learn anything!
          1. Ryazan87 4 May 2020 16: 24 New
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            You obviously ignore the very understanding of the word reconciliation and reject its context.

            No one personally requires payments or any restitution from you, of course.
            Reconciliation includes, in my opinion, declassification and open publication of materials on the current terror policy, an objective study of the scope and content of crimes committed during the civil war on both sides, the recognition of the internal conflict as a national tragedy of the Russian people. Also, the perpetuation of the memory of all victims of the civil war without ideological distortions and the thorough lustration of any revolutionary pantheon. A character like some kind of Bela Kun or Zemlyachka for Russians is shamefully immortalized in the names of city streets. This is at least.

            About the "do not understand." It's pretty curious to hear from you:
            Built by incredible efforts and sacrifices, the Soviet state collapsed like a house of cards 30 years ago. And it was not the White Guard landing or the conspiracy of the monarchists that killed him, but the completely decayed Communist Party.
            As you said? "let them perceive everything is"? So take the objective reality, including the bankruptcy of the Soviet project.
            R.S. You know, I noticed that all the sufferers of the "USSR that we lost" eventually began to resemble white emigrants from Soviet films. Stories about the empire, past greatness, the thirst for all offenders to punish, half-drunk nostalgia ..
            1. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 18: 01 New
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              Counter-revolution sometimes happened in history. Didn't you know? And this phenomenon was the result of many years of concerted efforts. The perpetuation in Russia of a character like Nikolai No. 2 is no less shameful if that.
              Etc. for each paragraph of your speech.
  • Marine engineer 13 February 2020 22: 55 New
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    Helpful fools are more dangerous than enemies.
  • Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 02 New
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    Ukraine. It was 52 million, now 37 million = 15 million where? Genocide?.
  • Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 07: 32 New
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    Precisely, they understood nothing, and did not learn anything. Look at the Temryuk school (Kuban, of course) allow themselves to bleat about the tens of thousands tortured by the Bolsheviks, no bodies were found with a postscript. Cool!
    Here the campaign is brewing the need to lustration our adored officials on the grounds of inciting hatred.
  • Pessimist22 13 February 2020 06: 01 New
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    Yes, there were times ... The First World War, the civil war, the Second World War, without these disasters, the population would now be probably 500 million.
    1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 08: 19 New
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      Quote: Pessimist22
      Yes, there were times ... The First World War, the civil war, the Second World War, without these disasters, the population would now be probably 500 million.

      The first world war in this series is the baby: victims of the Civil Massacre unleashed minority force seized power, FIVE times higher than in World War II! To them-her did not have!

      It is a pity that the respected author "does not notice." Should the author not know that the “victory” of this minority led to mass deaths from starvation and cannibalism on the most fertile Kuban in peace 32-33 g, in 47 years. What has never been and could never be.
      . The Kuban Cossack army was abolished, banned and dispersed. The Cossacks ceased to officially exist, and the repression against them lasted for decades.

      What flourished rapidly multiplied for the benefit of Russia on its southern borders, reliably protecting it and the Russians — the Kuban and Terek Cossack troops — were destroyed, which led to the exodus of the Russians from Chechnya, etc.

      Against all this, the Russian State fought, part of the Armed Forces of which they were the All-Union Socialist League.

      Should the PS not know about the massacre of dozens of front-line officers by the Bolsheviks in February 1918? And they did not fight with the Reds! The Bolsheviks, by force, seized power in the city, overthrowing the City Duma elected by the people. What will be surprised at the answer?

      Start gr. there was no war!
      1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 08: 38 New
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        Olgovich (Andrey)
        The first world war in this series is an infant: the victims of the Civil Massacre unleashed by a minority who seized power by force are FIVE times higher than in World War II! Before them, she was not!
        For those who are broadcasting from a coma, the minority can seize power, but keep it, and even in conditions of complete isolation, when there are only enemies around, the minority could never have been without the unconditional support of the majority of the masses of ordinary people. So shove your lying agitation from where you took it out, it has been stinking for a long time.
        1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 09: 49 New
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          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          For those who are broadcasting from a coma, a minority can seize power, but retain it,

          If you apply the "methods" that the UZURPATORS used to maintain power (hunger, hostage, mutual responsibility, executions, concentration camps, forced mobilization of all), you would "God save the king," not only sing, but also dance.
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          without reservation Support

          What is ... reservation support? What is this nonsense? belay lol
          1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 55 New
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            Olgovich (Andrey)
            If you apply the "methods" that the UZURPATORS used to maintain power (hunger, hostage, mutual responsibility, executions, concentration camps, forced mobilization of all), you would "God save the king," not only sing, but also dance.
            Kolchak used all of the above methods, so what? Did it help him much?
            Quite the contrary, people began to leave from Kolchak en masse to the Reds. Moreover, even those who were initially opposed turned red.
            So your arguments do not dance!
          2. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 14: 33 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            "methods" that the UZURPATORS used to keep power (hunger, hostage, mutual responsibility, executions, executions, concentration camps, forced mobilization of all)

            It really was .... only in the fantasies of opponents of Russia. At first, they didn’t come up with whiter than the smarter explanations for their defeats, in 1939 - the Finns, in 1941 - the Germans. EVERYTHING HAPPENED! Now this is repeated by their brothers in reason.fool
      2. Varyag_0711 13 February 2020 08: 49 New
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        Olgovich (Andrey)
        Should the author not know that the “victory” of this minority led to mass starvation and cannibalism on the most fertile Kuban in peace 32-33, in 47 years. What has never been and could never be.
        Ie hunger in tsarist Russia was not from the word at all? It really would not hurt you to check with a psychiatrist. fool
        1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 10: 03 New
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          Quote: Varyag_0711
          .e hunger in tsarist Russia was not from the word at all? It really wouldn’t hurt you psychiatrist to be checked.

          The hungry years were.

          But the mass mortality since 1892, cannibalism and corpse-eating was NOT there, all this is with you. That's what happened to you in the Kubanabout which article, in PEACE TIME !:
          TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.
          Special communication of the secret political department of the OGPU on labor difficulties in certain regions of the North Caucasus region

          7 March 1933 city
          Page 2
          YEY DISTRICT. Village Dolzhanskaya - 22 / II food assistance commission, having examined, established that Tr. G **** atconsumed the corpse of a dead sister's owl.

          In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate meat of brothers and sisters starving.

          Novo-Scherbinovskaya St.. In the 3rd brigade of collective farm E *** hacked and with "ate her 3 year old child, E *** family consists of 8 people who eat various surrogates (surepa, silo, etc.) and meat of cats and dogs.

          The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, part of the corpses bitten by dogs. The corpse of the collective farmer REZNIK was cut in half, without legs, and several coffins were found there, from which the corpses disappeared.

          In the 3rd brigade, wife C *** tpicks up corpses of children from a cemetery and eats. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
          A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

          There are thousands of such documents!

          In Russia, this was not, tie yourself a knot, yeah.
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          It really wouldn’t hurt you to check with a psychiatrist

          You didn’t help, but you advise others. Ugly! lol hi
          1. Vladimir_2U 13 February 2020 11: 32 New
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            Olgych a specialist in reconciliation after the Civil War on air.
          2. Hantengri 13 February 2020 11: 48 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            The hungry years were.

            But the mass mortality since 1892, cannibalism and corpse-eating was NOT,

            Olgovich, you really don’t understand the difference between the lack of “mass mortality since 1892, cannibalism and corpse eating” and the lack of information about him, because no one collected this information in reports and didn’t put it into archives like the “bloody Bolsheviks did” ", using the" bloody OGPU "?
            1. Reptiloid 13 February 2020 23: 50 New
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              in RI there was a census once in 1898. Life expectancy was around 30 years.
              Quote: HanTengri
              Quote: Olgovich
              The hungry years were.

              But the mass mortality since 1892, cannibalism and corpse-eating was NOT,

              Olgovich, you really don’t understand the difference between the lack of “mass mortality since 1892, cannibalism and corpse eating” and the lack of information about him, because no one collected this information in reports and didn’t put it into archives like the “bloody Bolsheviks did” ", using the" bloody OGPU "?
      3. apro 13 February 2020 08: 53 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        Start gr. there was no war!

        Are you dear to whom you are contacting? And who is asking whom?
        And why did they make the tsar renounce? So it was necessary ...
        1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 03 New
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          apro (Oleg Frolov)
          Are you dear to whom you are contacting? And who is asking whom?
          He has his own voices in his head, and communicates with them.
        2. Olgovich 13 February 2020 10: 07 New
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          Quote: apro
          Are you dear to whom you are contacting? And who is asking whom?

          To the author.
          Wow: the usurpers didn’t ask the people, capturing, against his willpower.
          The result is 10 million corpses, a destroyed economy, a largely destroyed culture
          Quote: apro
          it was necessary..

          to whom ?!
          1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 10: 30 New
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            Olgovich (Andrey)
            Wow: the usurpers did not ask the people, seizing power against their will.
            And when the usurpers in February seized power, they strongly asked your people "their will"?
            The result is 10 million corpses, a destroyed economy, a largely destroyed culture
            This is the result of the activities of your underdog and his temporary successors. No need to bring the blame on the healthy.
            1. Fat
              Fat 13 February 2020 19: 45 New
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              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              Olgovich (Andrey)
              Wow: the usurpers did not ask the people, seizing power against their will.
              And when the usurpers in February seized power, they strongly asked your people "their will"?
              The result is 10 million corpses, a destroyed economy, a largely destroyed culture
              This is the result of the activities of your underdog and his temporary successors. No need to bring the blame on the healthy.

              "The guard is tired" (C) Zheleznyakov AG (Zheleznyak)
              So the constituent assembly ended, as if elected in November 1917
              The bandit came to the forum and explained everything ...
              It is intelligible.
              People’s representatives are not allowed to settle in Russia!
              Dictatorship of the proletariat...
              The Council of People's Commissars was formed in accordance with the "Decree on the Establishment of the Council of People's Commissars" adopted by the II All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies on October 27, 1917. The decree began with the words:
              To form for the government of the country, until the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, an interim working and peasant government, which will be called the Council of People's Commissars.
              I wonder how many workers entered the SNK? Along the way, only professional revolutionaries.
              1. Olgovich 14 February 2020 07: 46 New
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                Quote: Thick
                To educate for governing the country henceforth before the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, the interim workers 'and peasants' government, which will be called the Council of People's Commissars.

                And foully deceived including and ITS OWN voters who were promised WORK in the CSS, and not his KILLING
                Quote: Thick
                I wonder how many workers entered the SNK?

                1 (one!) Live worker-Hatter lol .

                And he was shot as a spy and fascist.
                However, like the WHOLE composition of the first SNK and the Leninist Politburo. yes
                1. Fat
                  Fat 14 February 2020 17: 08 New
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                  I look through, thanks
          2. apro 13 February 2020 10: 31 New
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            Yes, the author just solves these problems ...
            Are the opponents of the usurpers also white and fluffy? Are they also not advocates of violence?
            1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 10: 58 New
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              Quote: apro
              Are the opponents of the usurpers also white and fluffy? Are they also not advocates of violence?

              compare. how much violence was before the thief and how much violence -after it- for many decades. What happened after the Thief, has never happened before

              for the entire 19th century, less than 1 day of 1937 was executed in Russia

              in Russia there were ten times less than 100 thousand of prisoners than in a ... "people's" state ...

              Overseers (officials) in the "people's" state, but ... ten times more than Russia ...
              1. cradle 13 February 2020 11: 57 New
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                come on statistics in the studio! During the 30-year period of imprisonment at the temporary detention center, 3 mulions were convicted and 600 thousand of them were shot. I am sure that there are fewer people about those shot in the Republic of Ingushetia, but there wasn’t there any war or WWII. But you can look at the darlings on the darlings. laughing
                1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 12: 18 New
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                  Quote: besik
                  come on statistics in the studio!

                  with nukanem- to the stable, not?.
                  Quote: besik
                  600 thousand of them were shot.

                  from 8. 1937 to 8.1938 (certificate of Pavlov)
                  Quote: besik
                  but there was no GV and WWII

                  in peaceful 1937 "blazed ... citizen war lol
                  in Russia. unconditionally. there was no gr. war-she only with the red
                  Quote: besik
                  But you can look at the darlings on the darlings.

                  for a hundred thousand darlings: take Suvorin
                  1. cradle 14 February 2020 06: 56 New
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                    for pedal horses - From Vicki the number of people convicted in the Republic of Ingushetia in 1908 was 1109256 people ... tada-da-dame ... at the temporary detention center - "in the midst of a big killer gebni" ... 820.881 in the NKVD camps. Well, yes, we add the number of shot thousands of commercials 20-30 a year and we get the “Terran orgy” .... but if we take into account the increase in the population that went through the GV and preparation for the 2nd MV, then somehow the orgy is not impressive. Banter about the war in 1937 - not counted ... past the cash register.
                    1. Olgovich 14 February 2020 07: 49 New
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                      Quote: besik
                      for pedal horses- From Wiki

                      Do you communicate with yourself?
                      К people -Don't pester.

                      And learn the help of Pavlov
                      1. cradle 14 February 2020 08: 16 New
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                        And Cho for insults? Do not understand. First, if you please, go to the stable, and then don’t bother people (?). Where should I find them, in the stable? He explained to the pedal horses. I hope lucidly. laughing
                      2. cradle 14 February 2020 09: 28 New
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                        you teach it yourself; there total of 4060306 people were convicted. for 30 years then! When converted to per capita, this is less than in RI if cho. And if you take into account two serious wars during this time, and not like in Russian-Japanese, FIG knows where the 1st World War is affecting a small part of the empire. So you still need to see who was the more blood-tsar Ali General Secretary.
              2. apro 13 February 2020 12: 12 New
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                Quote: Olgovich
                What happened after the Thief, has never happened before

                Well, as always .never such a thing happened, and here again ... here, as you say, learn history ..
                It’s clear that it became ... it’s not clear how the brilliant empire came to this mess. Was everything good and here ... either it wasn’t good? Or the ruling layer, as it is today, scored to manage and solve problems. It will resolve itself. to power and walk into the sweetness.
                1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 12: 45 New
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                  Quote: apro
                  Well, as always .never such a thing happened, and here again ... here, as you say, learn history ..


                  Not “as always,” but NEVER such a thing happened in Russia: not more than a dozen million deaths from starvation. not a million exiles. nor the execution of hundreds of thousands of people in 1 single peaceful year.
                  or tell? I beg. other countries can be brought hi
                  Quote: apro
                  It is clear that it became ... it is not clear how the brilliant empire came to this mess. Everything was good here ... or was it not good?

                  war. do you know . was the worst in history. before the war, there was nothing.
                  Quote: apro
                  Time doesn’t teach you the Bulkhrusts. We got to power and are walking in sweetness.

                  Does sandblast crunch say this? request
                  Prsrli ALL: country. army, people, money, EVERYTHING, complete bankruptbut to learn! lol hi
                  1. apro 13 February 2020 13: 27 New
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                    In the war, the Russian elite climbed on its own. And she herself did everything to lose. And she chose her allies and opponents ... and before the war, Rie seethed in 1904 1907, the time was very calm.
                    The USSR is still an example. And bourgeois Russia, apart from squeamishness, does not cause anything.
                    1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 41 New
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                      Quote: apro
                      The Russian elite climbed into the war itself

                      exactly the same as in 1941 the story-open.
                      Quote: apro
                      she herself did everything to lose

                      lost the so-called SNK, to which Russia is no sideways - history, open
                      Quote: apro
                      before the war, ri boiled in 1904 1907 time is very calm.

                      Russia developed and grew
                      Quote: apro
                      The USSR is an example today.

                      Of course an example: an example complete bankrupt
                      Name something like that in history no -without war, elements, etc.
                      1. apro 13 February 2020 13: 56 New
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                        And where did the USSR climb into the war in 1941? I do not see point blank.
                        Love you dear from responsibility to slip away ...
                        In dreams in dreams. Like today.
                        The USSR bankrupt? A very loud statement. Yes, I know the reasons for the destruction of the country. But the positive experience in construction is impressive.
                      2. Olgovich 13 February 2020 14: 25 New
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                        Quote: apro
                        And where did the USSR climb into the war in 1941? I do not see point blank.

                        here Russia also "climbed" its war announced and attacked her.
                        Quote: apro
                        The USSR bankrupt? A very loud statement. Yes, I know the reasons for the destruction of the country. But the positive experience of construction impressive.

                        Not loud, but fixing fact.
                        impressive, yes: such a crushing "bach" -history does not know, yes ....
                      3. apro 13 February 2020 14: 33 New
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                        After she announced the mobilization. Gained French loans. And inflamed with love for the Serbs ..
                        We know the facts. The main refusal to build a just society led to the collapse of the territory.
                      4. Olgovich 13 February 2020 15: 15 New
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                        Quote: apro
                        After she announced the mobilization

                        and where does it ... mobilization ??? belay
                        there, mobilized Hitler stood on our borders for two years and -nothing
                        Quote: apro
                        gained French loans

                        and the Soviet Nazi. and?
                        Quote: apro
                        We know the facts. The main failure to build a fair society and led to the collapse of the territory

                        We don’t remember the war. not?
                        And you - WITHOUT war - collapsed. Forgot. Yes....

                        This is fair: the Prosecutor General of the USSR Vyshinsky about the Supreme Leaders of the USSR:
                        "Scum, stinky patal, dung, a stinking pile of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile, scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers."
                        ?
                        Well, thanks, yes .....
                      5. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 17: 18 New
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                        there, mobilized Hitler stood on our borders for two years and nothing

                        So if nothing, then maybe it is not necessary in 1914 to announce the mobilization in response to the mobilization of Austria-Hungary? Moreover, in both cases it was clear against whom these mobilizations were, and in 1914 it was not against us.
                        and the Soviet Nazi. and?

                        and some, including for these loans, got into where it was not necessary, and the second - no.
                        I have already given an example of the competent spending of French loans. A loan is given, but it is not spent on what you need, but on what the creditor says. The same successes in the construction of railroads are similar to the infamous Soviet “rampart” - we will show everyone the number, let them admire our successes. After all, the French, giving a loan, they themselves decided where and where those or other roads should be laid. With the aim of increasing the mobilization potential of Russia on the eve of the upcoming war "which everyone knows about, but they prefer not to speak out loud". The French are good - they protect themselves and put up a loan. But the emperor is bombarding us with memoranda that we hang unprofitable railroads on our necks, which have no commercial value, but require funds for maintenance. And in addition, you need to give a loan.
                        Prosecutor General of the USSR Vyshinsky on the Supreme Leaders of the USSR

                        What only people do not say. And the social or administrative position does not make such words more or less significant.
                        It is impossible for a person who, like every mortal is not perfect, and often vicious, to be identified with a whole philosophical doctrine making a person’s shortcomings flaws in teaching.
                      6. Olgovich 14 February 2020 07: 59 New
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                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        So if nothing, so maybe do not in 1914 to declare mobilization

                        And, you are also a fan of the “correct” on June 22, 41: before him the mobilization was NOT announced, the result is a wild disaster (it’s clear already, not for you)
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        and some, including for these loans, got into where it was not necessary, and the second - no.

                        they attacked us. And they decided to attack long before mobilization.

                        Or are you again one of those who believe that world wars begin because of ... provocations? lol
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        and the second - no.

                        September 17, to help you.
                        Quote: A vile skeptic
                        What only people do not say. And the social or administrative position does not make such words more or less significant.

                        What are you carrying? This was stated by GOSUDARSTO in the person of the Chief Prosecutor.
                      7. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 09: 46 New
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                        And, you are also a fan of the “correct” on June 22, 41: before him mobilization was NOT announced, the result is a wild disaster

                        Understand first what mobilization is. Maybe you’ll stop writing nonsense. Although I have no doubt that if the law of normal distribution does not apply for your receiver systems, concentrated fire is fired by one aircraft, then mobilization in your understanding is to drive soldiers to the border. And you would know that the mobilization began almost from 1937, and the flywheel began to spin up completely in 1939. And since you can’t even say about operational deployment. The maximum about the declaration of martial law. And even more so, the reason for the failures of summer 41 is not, in your words, undeclared mobilization. And in what was the failure of the French, British, Dutch, Belgians, Poles - the Germans turned over the doctrine that the defenders were in a better position (which they believed in after the WWII).
                        they attacked us. And they decided to attack long before mobilization.

                        All coalition members have mobilization plans in case of a coalition war. Only the availability of such plans is not yet a decision to carry out direct aggression. But the actions of the opposing coalition members can easily give birth to such a decision.
                        And Serbia definitely cannot be pulled to Germany’s plans.
                        September 17, to help you.

                        And what, since September 17 we are at war? And what about German loans? belay
                        What are you carrying? This was stated by GOSUDARSTO in the person of the Chief Prosecutor.

                        No, the state passed a sentence, but the fact that Ostap suffered, so the characteristic of Ostap is appropriate. But if from this position to look at all the pearls of the current representatives of the authorities, they did not ask for childbirth and we will arrange a radioactive desert from America - has the state also stated?
                  2. Hantengri 13 February 2020 22: 53 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    And you - WITHOUT war - collapsed. Forgot. Yes....

                    The Cold War, Olgovich. Didn't hear, no?
          3. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 14: 36 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            Russia developed and grew

            So it’s matured and matured ... Revolutions are not done at someone’s will!
          4. The comment was deleted.
      4. Hantengri 13 February 2020 22: 05 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        Russia was NOT: neither over a dozen million deaths from hunger.

        The total supermortality, throughout the USSR, for 1932-1933 amounted to 3,2 - 3,4 million people. In 1947, 1,4 million people. Rest, over 6,2 millionWhere did you get it?
        1. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 09: 01 New
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          He will now tell you about Andreev, Darskaya. He has the same thing.
          To which I “don’t remember which” time I will quote from their second book, where they had to respond to criticism of their first book. ))) With the calculation method. Where do they recognize that they needed more than 1000 variables to solve the system of equations. Therefore, they all reduced to a simplified form and what they themselves lacked was suggested.
          1. Hantengri 14 February 2020 09: 28 New
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            Quote: A vile skeptic
            He will now tell you about Andreev, Darskaya.

            This is how much you need to be sick on your head in order to manage to count the number of victims of hunger, in several regions, 200% higher than elementary calculated supermortality, throughout the country, which, by definition, is the first approximation of the desired size!
          2. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 09: 54 New
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            Here is a moot point. Without what and how it was considered in these calculations, I can’t say anything. In fact, 3 times more mortality in the region than the national average - ordinary mathematics.
          3. Hantengri 14 February 2020 10: 47 New
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            I calculated as follows:
            Based on the annual reports of the registry office:
            The average mortality in the USSR for 1927-31gg - 2618,8 thousand
            Super-mortality of 1932: 2893,0 - 2618,8 = 274,2 thousand
            1933: 4999,2 - 2618,8 = 2380,4 thousand
            -------------------------------------------------- ---
            Total: 2654,6 thousand + 20% (the maximum estimated error of the registry office data of that time) = 3185,5 thousand.
            Roughly 3 million 200 thousand
            (You can still calculate according to TSONHU, but it turns out less.)
            And as Andreev & Co - xs thought, since I did not find a sane description of the methodology for calculating amendments to the registry office data. But the values ​​of these amendments are suggestive ...
            1927-29
            births - 23,8% deaths - 59,7%
            1930-33
            births - 41,5% deaths - 93,5%
            1934-36
            births - 16,4% deaths - 23,5%
    2. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 23 New
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      Tyuyuyu. Modern outskirts. With Kuchma 52 million, now 37 = 15 mill. WHERE?
  • nov_tech.vrn 13 February 2020 12: 15 New
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    Well, firstly, a civil war was unleashed, this very minority, in general, before World War I, there were an insignificant number of bulkhrust crumbs from the Russian population, about 1 thousand lived abroad, and only half a million did not reach it. It was in the interests of this minority that a civil war was fought (we do not consider the interests of the countries of intervention here). Cossacks do not need to be dragged into this quantity, the overwhelming majority of them had strong households, worked hard on their land, for certain privileges were obliged to serve the state, which they served faithfully, and then a considerable number of them paid for it, Remaining faithful to the oath to the state of which he did not. What happened after the blood was shed and with what bitterness it poured this blood, I think it’s not necessary to say.
  • Jarserge 13 February 2020 12: 36 New
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    You do not know the story. To begin with, learn how to count your million victims there as a million here just like the liberals did. At first, the Bolsheviks did not arrest and did not take officers hostage, honestly enough. When the Germans went to St. Petersburg and Moscow, the officers were given revolvers and asked to emphasize, they asked to stand up for the country. Where were the officers? Right in the south, where the British and French put together a white army. As for the Kuban Don and other Cossack troops. Can you tell me who declared the Cossacks a separate nation that is not part of Russia? Who declared "independence" and began to establish "diplomatic" relations with the Entente and Turkey? Those who followed the wagon train behind the advancing white army and wagon train, took out everything from villages and towns, including rags and dishes, leaving gallows and not shot, no tormented hearts, carved with sabers, carved stars, barrels lowered from slides with hammered nails and a man inside . We will not talk about such banalities as the hackneyed and executed. As for the rest of what you wrote, I agree that some of the unsightly truths exist, but alas, no country in the world has escaped this. Neither famine nor the destruction of their opponents. Both the French Revolution and the American Civil War are evidence of this.
    1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 04 New
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      Quote: Jarserge
      Вyou don't know a story. To begin with, learn to count, and you have a million victims; there’s a million here just like the liberals.

      do not talk, but refute data,.
      Quote: Jarserge
      .Bolsheviks at first did not arrest and did not take officers hostage; honesty was enough.

      do not carry the same nonsense, they were the first to arrest Krasnov. despite honestly don't do it
      Quote: Jarserge
      When the Germans went to St. Petersburg and Moscow, the officers were given revolvers and asked to emphasize, they asked to stand up for the country.

      it’s not their dog business, “petitioners” - they are no one to call.
      Quote: Jarserge
      Where were the officers? Right in the south, where the British and French put together a white army.

      in the veil. The British helped ...in March 1919, "connoisseur
      Quote: Jarserge
      As for the Kuban Don and other Cossack troops. Can you tell me who declared the Cossacks a separate nation that is not part of Russia? Who announced "independence" and began to establish "diplomatic" relations with the Entente and Turkey?

      "BEFORE restoration of legal authority in Russia "- it was decided
      Quote: Jarserge
      x, there are no tortured, hearts cut out by checkers, stars cut out, barrels lowered from the hills with hammered nails and a person inside. We will not talk about such platitudes as the hacked and shot.

      Leave: what the Bolsheviks did, in no thriller did they invent
      Quote: Jarserge
      As for the rest of what you wrote, I agree that part of the ugly truth is, but alas, no country in the world has escaped this. Neither famine nor the destruction of their opponents. And french revolution and american civil war evidence of this.

      1.Yes, NO ANYWHERE in the world THERE WAS NO, that's just the point
      2. Having such a good example, and to unleash a massacre is who should be?
      1. Jarserge 13 February 2020 13: 49 New
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        1.Yes, NO ANYWHERE in the world THERE WAS NO, that's just the point
        2. Having such a good example, and to unleash a massacre is who should be?
        Learn the story ..... Find it yourself and read. And wipe the foam from the lips.
        1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 14: 30 New
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          Quote: Jarserge
          Learn the story ..... Find it yourself and read. Yes, and wipe the foam from the lips.

          those. You are unable to refute the facts.

          PS after the "foam" I do not communicate with you: with your wife, let this ..
          fi ... negative
          1. Jarserge 13 February 2020 15: 28 New
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            Thank. To teach you ELEMENTARY historical facts in exchange for your HYSTERIC stream of consciousness, FI
      2. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 07: 44 New
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        what the Bolsheviks did, in no thriller did they invent

        Now I’ll pay a pancake. White terror was no less and even more brutal, and no less massive.

        1.Yes, NO ANYWHERE in the world THERE WAS NO, that's just the point
        2. Having such a good example, and to unleash a massacre is who should be?


        So who unleashed that? Forget yes?
  • Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 07: 39 New
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    Characters such as Kaledin, who easily and naturally violated their words, began the civil war as an officer given to the New Government. And there are enough executions of the polls from the side of the opponents (white)
  • Reptiloid 13 February 2020 06: 05 New
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    I learned new things for myself. I liked the article.
    I recall the comments on one recent article that the book-makers, mourning the king, pity those who overthrew him at the same time.
    The thing is that no theories, facts, actions built on a contradictory statement can be successful in the end.
    However, a lot of harm
    Until the evening, dear comrades.
  • Mavrikiy 13 February 2020 06: 21 New
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    innocently killed and perished
    What can I say, villains writers and scoundrels are organizers who are fomenting a new GV in 100 years. We were both implacable, and will remain.
    1. Far B 13 February 2020 06: 28 New
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      villains writers and scoundrels organizers fomenting new GV
      And don’t talk! Only our authorities have done well - they are doing everything to prevent stratification of the country's population and inciting mutual hostility. They work tirelessly so that people with a smile look into the bright tomorrow and believe that a person is a friend, a friend and a brother, and not a wolf, a horse and a donkey. Real servants of the people!
      1. novel66 13 February 2020 07: 10 New
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        for it was said in KVN
    2. Arlen 13 February 2020 07: 44 New
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      Quote: Mavrikiy
      We were both implacable, and will remain.

      Before our eyes, some rewrite history. They are trying to denigrate everything connected with the Soviet power. They slip into the national heroes of the white traitors who fled from popular anger under the protection of the West. So no fitting is foreseen.
      1. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 07: 45 New
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        Right! And there is.
  • Alexander Trebuntsev 13 February 2020 06: 28 New
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    Today it’s fashionable to be on the side of whites. All at once, they became victims of Soviet power, and first of all, liberalists. At the same time, all the main liberals from the families of the former party nomenclature enjoyed all the benefits of the Soviet regime.
  • Starshina wmf 13 February 2020 06: 35 New
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    When fleeing, the white left 2 Zyungar regiments to detain the red troops. Some of them were almost completely destroyed, the second broke into the Crimea with a fight.
    1. novel66 13 February 2020 07: 11 New
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      the second broke into the Crimea with a fight.

      by sea chtoli?
      1. Moskovit 13 February 2020 08: 15 New
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        The 80th Zyungar Regiment withdrew almost without fighting to Sochi (there were no serious Red forces in those areas) and from there it was evacuated by sea to the Crimea.
        1. novel66 13 February 2020 08: 24 New
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          and didn’t break through without a fight ... and not in Crimea but in Sochi ... oh, this science is history ...
          1. Chervonny 13 February 2020 10: 37 New
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            Quote: novel xnumx
            and didn’t break through without a fight ... and not in Crimea but in Sochi ... oh, this science is history ...

            In the unprofessional hands of homegrown historians turns into statistics. False historians are spinning, spinning her like some sort of thing, sucking out some "historical facts" from something incomprehensible ...
  • anjey 13 February 2020 07: 16 New
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    The excessive romanticization of the white movement is also harmful, there is a lot of dark and bloody in it ...
    1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 07: 36 New
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      Still those ghouls.
      1. novel66 13 February 2020 08: 25 New
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        and frankly stupid, to be honest
      2. Cowbra 13 February 2020 08: 42 New
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        Yeah. why did Slashchev quarrel with Wrangel? Wrangel did not fight for Russia. and for the French factories in the Donbass. at the direction of their masters. Patriot. itihu
        1. anjey 13 February 2020 08: 57 New
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          Take the same Kolchak, drowned the whole of Siberia in blood, drove the peasants under arms, who did not want to hang out, actually changed the Tsar by accepting British citizenship and the oath of the English crown, the patriot is still .... Denikin is whitened a little by the fact that he did not sing Hitler and the German Nazis, although there were proposals for cooperation. And who knows the history of the Volunteer Army and the Jewish pogroms, then Denikin will not justify ....
          1. Alexander Suvorov 13 February 2020 09: 10 New
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            Yes, nothing justifies Denikin! What is the difference to whom to sell? Krasnov sold himself to the Germans in the 1918th, and so he served them to the end. And Denikin sold himself to the Anglo-Saxons, what's the difference?
            1. anjey 13 February 2020 09: 33 New
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              The Cossacks, too, were in a split between the poor and the rich and the whole war, like the Kalmyks, wandered from red to white and vice versa, and was also distinguished by the brutal mass and demonstrative executions of workers and Bolsheviks on the squares of many southern cities.
        2. bober1982 13 February 2020 09: 44 New
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          Quote: Cowbra
          Yeah. why did Slashchev quarrel with Wrangel?

          He was fond of drugs, and loved to drink excessively - all of those Slavish freaks, Wrangel and annoyed.
          1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 09: 48 New
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            I never heard of a drink; May-Mayevsky loved to drink. And on the contrary, his Wrangel returned to the army, despite the fact that he did not dry out. So it's not about drugs, especially considering that he was by far the best white commander
            1. bober1982 13 February 2020 09: 53 New
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              Quote: Cowbra
              he was by far the best white commander

              One hundred percent!
              ...... confirmed member of the literary society Ivan Bezdomny, who liked to express himself elaborately and figuratively.
          2. Alexey RA 13 February 2020 11: 06 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            He was fond of drugs, and loved to drink excessively - all of those Slavish freaks, Wrangel and annoyed.

            Not only. The future comrade Slashchev was zealously intemperate into the language, as a result of which he expressed himself directly and not diplomatically and was unloved by all the bosses.
            And at the very height of the dictation, interrupting my thought, there is the adjutant, the centurion Frost, a very executive person, but little thinking, and reports that the governor Tatishchev urges to report on the situation at the front. I confess, I was tormented - here it is, and there the panic continues - and I sharply answer:
            “Well, you yourself could not tell him? So tell me that the entire rear bastard can get off the suitcases. " And Frost, according to his everlasting diligence, did so. What happened! .. The panic subsided, but complaints and reprimands rained down on me, all the more so since the reporters got the transmission tape. Even Denikin sent me a reprimand, but this expression became walking in the Crimea.

            My friction with Wrangel continued, it came to a reproach on my part that it seems that we are beginning to dance to the tune of the French, and we raised a rebellion against the Soviet power, as against the power set by the Germans. Why are the Germans worse than the French?

            Then Kutepov said:
            “Since you are completely disappointed, why don't you write Wrangel that he needs to leave? It is only necessary to nominate a candidate, at least me, as the eldest of those remaining. ”
            “Oh, I can do it with pleasure,” I replied, “your name is so unpopular that it will sooner spread out the army,” and wrote a report that Kutepov himself drove to Wrangel.

            In addition, Slashchev was a "black sheep" in relation to losses as a measure of the success of a military leader - "the higher the loss, the higher the valor":
            Immediately there was a rather original conversation with Wrangel after his remark about the robberies, which were accused of all the corps, except for the 2nd, which I mentioned above. I spoke with him about the military decorations of the ranks of my corps. He interrupted this conversation with the words: “Well, what to speak of awards! After all, your losses are negligible; here the 1st and 3rd buildings have big losses, but there’s no need to talk about your case. ” I could only answer that I punish my commanding staff for heavy losses in units, and if heavy losses are not random, but a constant occurrence, then I dismiss commanding officers from their posts for not being able to lead troops into battle. Victory must be achieved with "little blood," for which we receive a military education.
            This original, not to say - criminal, view of the large losses of units as a proof of their prowess is deeply rooted in our old army.
            It is necessary to fight this view, and permanent (I emphasize that it is not accidental, which is always possible, especially with modern technology) large losses should indicate the inability of the commander to lead troops, i.e. about his unsuitability for the post
            © Slashchev
        3. Olgovich 13 February 2020 11: 19 New
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          Quote: Cowbra
          Wrangel did not fight for Russia. and for the French plants in the Donbass.

          Lying.

          But the reality is different, the Reds fought for it. to RUSSIAN Odessa, yuzovka Nikolaev. Right. Uralsk and hundreds of other Russian cities tear off from Russia, distribute to non-states and turn them into a national ...... MYKOLYIVY (what an abomination!)
          1. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 12: 01 New
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            hundreds of other Russian cities to tear from Russia

            This is called the federal structure of the state.
            Does the federal structure of the Russian Federation bother you?
            Where can you see with the banner “Abolish (for example) Tatarstan (Adygea, etc.), return Kazan (Maykop, etc.), torn from Russia"?
            1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 12 New
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              Quote: A vile skeptic
              This is called the federal structure of the state.

              I look out the window and advise you: WHERE is this "f" state? request

              But those created at the expense of Russia by yours criminals STATE OF UKRAINE and pr Kyrgyz-IS
              Quote: A vile skeptic
              Does the federal structure of the Russian Federation bother you?

              embarrassing.
              but they have no right to exit from Russia.

              you don’t even cry?
              1. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 13: 35 New
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                I look out the window and advise you: WHERE is this "f" state?

                There is no federal USSR, why is this question at all ...
                But created at the expense of Russia by your criminals, the GOSUDARSTVA of Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan, IS

                My criminals? You got a hold of it.
                And on the question - And what? In terms of the historical process, what is unusual? Nothing.
                Show me at least one state unchanged on the entire historical timeline.

                And if we recall how in the beginning of the 90s Russia a generous soul itself said to all the republics “go, go ...”, then who is to complain? To me?
                embarrassing.

                Well, are you already in the squares with a poster from my previous message? Will I see the news?
                but they have no right to exit from Russia.
                you don’t even cry?

                I know. You can consider this a real democracy and the right of peoples to self-determination. And then I'll start telling you that you do not respect the decision of the Crimean residents in 2014))
                I don’t understand at all that you are so embarrassed by federalism, given that the Provisional Government has not denied that a federal structure is possible in the future.
                1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 14: 15 New
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                  Quote: A vile skeptic

                  There is no federal USSR, why is this question at all ...

                  and what are you bringing me to non-existent-send? belay
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  My criminals? You got a hold of it.

                  "You are not Bolsheviks, Bolsheviks are not you" lol
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  And on the question - And what? In terms of the historical process, what is unusual? Nothing.

                  and then: tore Russia against the will of its citizens! Or you asked the Russians Odessa. Faithful and Uralsk about their desire to be in Kazakhstan? no?
                  So do not fool your head about "East processes"
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  I know. You can consider this a real democracy and the right of peoples to self-determination. And then I'll start telling you that you do not respect the decision of the Crimean residents in 2014))

                  horseradish like a carrot, too, yeah lol
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  I don’t understand that you are so puffs from federalism, given that the Provisional Government also did not deny that a federal structure is possible in the future.

                  1.tributes you, apparently, if you allow this
                  2. autonomies did not have the right to exit 9 ordinary local self-government0 and the same UK.r. autonomy was discussed in sizes 4 times smaller than the monster. created by you.
                  1. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 14: 55 New
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                    tore Russia against the will of its citizens!

                    Are you talking about 1991, when people didn’t give a damn? )))
                    It’s just ridiculous to hear that the “parade of sovereignty” could be stopped by the constitution if it hadn’t written about the possibility of an exit.
                    Firstly, because they didn’t give a damn about the results of the referendum and didn’t remember the constitution, just as they wouldn’t remember the constitution in all other cases.
                    Secondly, there are living examples of republics that simply did not spit on Law No. 1409-1. And, by the way, this law appeared in the USSR only in 1990. Prior to that, no procedure was even provided for.
                    Thirdly, one of such spitting was Russia itself, sadly

                    Russia did not need neither Odessa, nor Verny, nor Uralsk, nor everything else. So leave your "cry of Yaroslavna" for ..., I don’t know, for anyone.
                    1. Olgovich 14 February 2020 08: 08 New
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                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Are you talking about 1991, when people didn’t give a damn? )))

                      Are you illiterate?
                      We are talking about RUSSIA, her tore in 1917-1940, to pieces
                      And in 1991, NOBODY stood up for your power, and you too
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Russia did not need neither Odessa, nor Verny, nor Uralsk, nor everything else.

                      To start a war with the monsters that you raised, with the millions you converted into Russian Ukrainians?
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      So leave your "cry of Yaroslavna" for ..., I don’t know, for anyone.

                      Tips - the same as the Tips. lol
                      1. Foul skeptic 14 February 2020 08: 56 New
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                        We are talking about RUSSIA, it was torn apart in 1917-1940 into parts

                        You responded to "spit on the will of citizens."
                        The Russian Empire turned into a socialist federation. That somehow did not affect the potential of the state. But the same British Empire was more of a square and a population (since you love to put pressure on the “biggest and fastest growing” for some reason), and for half a century it has become zilch in comparison with your past. And that's okay. But in 91 just tore the country on do not understand what.
                        Start a war with the monsters you raised, with millions

                        No, but advocate for the preservation of a socialist federation. Not the fact that it turned out, but at least the intentions would be clear - we do not want to tear the country apart. But I brought you a propaganda poster - they themselves wanted to become “sovereign” separately from everyone. So there is nothing to blame on the mirror, if the mug is crooked.
          2. Cowbra 13 February 2020 12: 01 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            Lying.

            Above is a quote from Slashchev, argue with him, and scatter these words - they need to be confirmed. I - confirmed, and you - WATCH!
            1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 13: 15 New
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              Quote: Cowbra
              Above is a quote from Slashchev, and argue with him, and scatter these words - they need to confirm

              How can I confirm ... absence? belay request lol

              You prove the existence of such an archive contract. case number, etc.
              No?
              then-
              Quote: Cowbra
              you are WATCH!
              lol
              1. Foul skeptic 13 February 2020 13: 55 New
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                such an agreement

                I'd like to understand what kind of contract are we talking about? Could you tell?
              2. Cowbra 13 February 2020 14: 18 New
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                So. Let us suppose. the presumption of innocence - but then it’s wild that you do not know the memoirs of the actors, but reason. what a lie, what not. This is at least ignorance.
                Quote: Olgovich
                You prove the existence of such an archive contract. case number, etc.

                Slashchev's memoirs are a historical DOCUMENT, so you know.
                1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 15: 19 New
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                  Quote: Cowbra
                  So. Let us suppose. the presumption of innocence - but then it’s wild that you do not know the memoirs of the actors, but reason. what a lie, what not. This is at least ignorance.

                  Give not a BOLTOVNA, but a document between the parties.
                  No?

                  Bye
                  1. Cowbra 13 February 2020 15: 40 New
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                    Quote: Cowbra
                    historical DOCUMENT

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Bye

                    Stubbornness is the first sign of stupidity (c)
      3. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 15: 01 New
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        Not this way. ghoul clowns. The frank stupidity of the so-called “whites” did not stop them from crumbling a bunch of people.
  • Nick Russ 13 February 2020 07: 37 New
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    ,,IN. I. Lenin and the Bolsheviks, in their quest for the start of a world revolution, evaluated the defeat of Russia in the First World War as a political necessity and a way of “turning the imperialist war into a civil war,”

    Judah
    1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 08: 44 New
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      No, I had to put a couple more millions in a meat grinder and, being in a doggie on the neck, get into them to the very top good
      1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 09: 23 New
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        ,, No, it was necessary to put a couple more millions in a meat grinder and, being in a doge's neck, get into them to the very top,

        You can justify anyone and anything, but there is an obvious fact of betrayal by the Bolsheviks, headed by Lenin. And a pre-planned outbreak of civil war. The most vile war, where a brother kills a brother and the father of the son, and the son of the father.
        For one, they need to be cursed in history.

        Germany had an extreme lack of resources for the war, so we were doomed to victory, if not for 1917. And if the Germans were defeated then, then there wasn’t 1941-1945.
        1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 09: 34 New
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          Also not the fact that this would have prevented the Second World War. It is not a fact that the States would have entered the WWII on a full scale, had Russia waged a war. The first American division arrived on the Western Front only in October 1917
          1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 09: 54 New
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            The US knows how to capitalize on wars, not fight. And without such allies, they could have dealt both in the first and second world war.
            1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 09: 59 New
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              soldier
              Their pregnant ostrich penguins F-35s will not stand the maneuver battle with I-16. They bought the Iraqi generals, shamefully, losing diapers, fled from Vietnam. Correctly say, Komrad, however, the victory on the Western Front was achieved only due to the fact that the Americans stupidly crushed the Germans with meat - filled up with corpses. Without them, the tsarist army would have had to repeat the same thing on the Eastern Front. And get into even greater debt to the country hi
        2. ccsr 13 February 2020 11: 32 New
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          Quote: Nick Russ
          And a pre-planned outbreak of civil war.

          But how then to understand the fact that the Bolsheviks, honestly not to fight against the Soviet regime, released the detained officers and various officials of tsarist Russia from prisons, and then they became active participants in the White movement? If there had not been fierce resistance of the new government on the part of those who had overthrown the tsar, then there would have been no Civil War itself - you probably do not know this.
          1. Karen 13 February 2020 18: 28 New
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            Quote: ccsr
            But how then to understand the fact that the Bolsheviks, honestly not to fight against the Soviet regime, released the detained officers and various officials of tsarist Russia from prisons, and then they became active participants in the White movement?

            Here, at the forum, it was already voiced how many Russians were slaughtered by the Bolshevik bastard in St. Petersburg immediately after October ...
            1. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 15: 03 New
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              And how many Russians were cut out by a white bastard? Do you know?
        3. Hantengri 13 February 2020 11: 58 New
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          Quote: Nick Russ
          but there is an obvious fact of betrayal by the Bolsheviks, headed by Lenin.

          I wonder who they betrayed?
        4. nov_tech.vrn 13 February 2020 12: 32 New
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          Where are you from here if it’s sick, if there are facts - share, otherwise your “revelations” are called slander. The army collapsed, dear Kerensky, having eliminated the unity of command and the front, the Bolsheviks did not open the Germans, then they were not in power. As for the outbreak of the civil war, whoever unleashed it has evidence, you dig even here in VO, you will find it, you already figured it out.
          1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 16: 50 New
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            ,, Where are you from here sickly, if there are facts - share, ,,

            V.I. Lenin. Full composition of writings. - 5th ed. - M .: Publishing house of political literature, 1967. Volume 26. “Socialism and war (The attitude of the RSDLP to war). 1915. " S. 307-350

            V.I. Lenin. Full composition of writings. - 5th ed. - M .: Publishing house of political literature, 1967. Volume 26. “On the defeat of his government in the imperialist war. 1915. " S. 286-291
            1. nov_tech.vrn 13 February 2020 22: 03 New
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              but what, apart from Lenin's theory of the attitude towards the imperialist war and the creation of a revolutionary situation, is it still empty behind the soul? Well, I know, for example, how the Bolsheviks organized the defense of the Mozund Islands from the German invasion, and you once proved the opposite
        5. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 15: 08 New
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          Quote: Nick Russ
          Germany had an extreme lack of resources for the war, so we were doomed to victory, if not for 1917.

          Only contemporaries even at the beginning of 1918 did not know this. And they didn’t even imagine.
          Quote: Nick Russ
          there is an obvious fact of betrayal by the Bolsheviks, headed by Lenin

          However, contemporaries saw in them the saviors of the country ... recourse
          1. Fat
            Fat 13 February 2020 22: 04 New
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            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Quote: Nick Russ
            Germany had an extreme lack of resources for the war, so we were doomed to victory, if not for 1917.

            Only contemporaries even at the beginning of 1918 did not know this. And they didn’t even imagine.
            Quote: Nick Russ
            there is an obvious fact of betrayal by the Bolsheviks, headed by Lenin

            However, contemporaries saw in them the saviors of the country ... recourse

            Sahar Medovich, very interesting HOW do you manage to communicate with witnesses contemporaries of the civil war? 100 years have passed since then. Contemporaries should be around 1900 of birth. I understand that people have been living for 150 years ... But there are few of such endangered now. As for diaries and memoirs. So such a thing is subjective completely and opportunistically.
            Reds about Cossacks, killers and looters.
            White about the atrocities of the Bolsheviks ..
            1. Sugar Honeyovich 14 February 2020 06: 33 New
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              Quote: Thick
              HOW do you manage to communicate with witnesses contemporaries of the civil war?

              Just like everyone who is interested in history.
              Quote: Thick
              As for diaries and memoirs. So such a thing is subjective completely and opportunistically.

              No more than oral stories.

              The bottom line is: a common mistake is to look at the past with today's eyes. Previously, people could not know what would happen later, especially since we know now. Therefore, it is important for us to know WHAT they then said, did, how they were guided in matters, how they treated, assessed certain factors, etc.
              1. Fat
                Fat 14 February 2020 16: 40 New
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                Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                Quote: Thick
                HOW do you manage to communicate with witnesses contemporaries of the civil war?

                Just like everyone who is interested in history.
                Quote: Thick
                As for diaries and memoirs. So such a thing is subjective completely and opportunistically.

                No more than oral stories.

                The bottom line is: a common mistake is to look at the past with today's eyes. Previously, people could not know what would happen later, especially since we know now. Therefore, it is important for us to know WHAT they then said, did, how they were guided in matters, how they treated, assessed certain factors, etc.

                Yes, I understand, but even the recollections of classmates and countrymen are not a fact.
                Rumors and conjectures of neighbors are not reality. Only their perception.
                It only gives me pain ... That my relatives, servants and working people ran just to leave behind the nightmare of arbitrariness and looting of overalls. From Izhevsk to Perm ... From the village to the city ...
                Sad.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich 15 February 2020 06: 13 New
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                  Quote: Thick
                  the recollections of classmates and countrymen are not a fact.
                  Rumors and conjectures of neighbors are not reality. Only their perception.

                  I agree. But you need to know them! And the more, the better.
        6. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 19: 17 New
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          Quote: Nick Russ
          You can justify anyone and anything, but there is an obvious fact of betrayal by the Bolsheviks, headed by Lenin. And a pre-planned outbreak of civil war.

          It is not clear why you blame the Bolsheviks for starting a civil war.
          Any Great Revolution, the same French Revolution of 1789, gives rise to counter-revolution.
          As soon as the oppressed class becomes ruling and abrogates all the privileges of those in power who cannot agree with this, of course, they unleash a civil war in order to regain their sweet and well-fed life. So all the blame for starting a civil war in Russia lies with the bourgeoisie and the nobility.
          1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 19: 53 New
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            And I do not condone either one or the other. But the big fault is on the Bolsheviks.
      2. Olgovich 13 February 2020 10: 10 New
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        Quote: Krasnodar
        No, I had to put a couple more millions in a meat grinder and, being in a doggie on the neck, get into them to the very top

        No, much "it was better to put 10 million of their fellow citizens in the Gr. Slaughter negative
        1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 10: 16 New
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          Because you can’t fight, it’s not clear why you should take away affordable bread from the citizens for the front, leaving expensive rolls and cakes affordable for the minority on the counter. This caused a cataclysm that destroyed the degenerative system ... Compare the Louvre and the Winter ... compare the standard of living of a simple Frenchman and a royal citizen. The winter one was overshadowed by the Louvre in luxury, the Central Russian peasant could not dream of a Frenchman's standard of living
          1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 10: 52 New
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            ,, Because you can’t fight, it’s not clear why, ,,

            For Faith, Tsar, and Fatherland!

            ,, the Central Russian peasant could not dream of a Frenchman’s standard of living ,,

            After dispossessed and the creation of collective farms, the peasantry was generally destroyed. As the saying goes: ,, do as it was - bad ,,
            but alas, it’s too late.
            1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 11: 02 New
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              laughing
              Faith, Tsar, Fatherland - good
              Despite the fact that your family in the rear lives starving, unlike the royal
              After dispossessing - yes, I agree. But the first Bolshevik leaders, too, were not particularly chic)).
              1. Olgovich 13 February 2020 11: 32 New
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                Quote: Krasnodar
                your family in the rear lives starving, unlike the royal

                The Soviet family EATING as they ate in 1913, could only through Forty years! (CSB report 1955)
                1. Krasnodar 13 February 2020 11: 35 New
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                  So no one says that everything was smooth in the USSR. Just in 1917 everything became unbearable.
                2. Looking for 13 February 2020 17: 24 New
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                  report accidentally written not in the 90s? We know how real archives. were replaced by the liberal "remake"
    2. Sugar Honeyovich 13 February 2020 14: 44 New
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      Quote: Nick Russ
      Judah

      And contemporaries declared them saints ... request
      1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 16: 16 New
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        ,, And contemporaries declared them saints,

        Lawless Heart request

        ,, About the canonization of Stepan Bandera himself, rumors have long been circulating. At the beginning of this year, an icon was brought to the Greek Catholic requiem near the monument to the “hero” in the city of Snyatin (Ivano-Frankivsk Region), on which Shukhevych, Bandera and their ilk are depicted surrounded by the Mother of God and angels. A similar icon called "The Most Holy Theotokos is the patroness of Ukrainian soldiers" appeared also among the "Filaretites" (supporters of the unrecognized Kiev Patriarchate in world Orthodoxy. - Ed.). Mazepa, activists of Euromaidan and participants in the so-called anti-terrorist operation in southeastern Ukraine added to all these characters on it. ,,

        https://ria.ru/20171026/1507558863.html
        1. Alex Nevs 14 February 2020 09: 36 New
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          Well, you can’t say anything. Fans of Fascism and minions. laughing
    3. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 19: 10 New
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      Quote: Nick Russ
      V.I. Lenin and the Bolsheviks, in their quest for the start of a world revolution, evaluated the defeat of Russia in the First World War as a political necessity and a way of “turning the imperialist war into a civil war,”

      Judah


      And what is better for the working people? To perish in the war between slaveholders, remaining a blind and helpless slave, or perish in the struggle to overthrow slavery?
      1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 19: 23 New
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        ,, And what is better for the working people? To perish in the war between slaveholders, remaining a blind and helpless slave, or perish in the struggle to overthrow slavery ?,

        To fight and die for your fatherland is the holy duty and honor of any person.

        But to die and kill their fellow countrymen, and maybe even relatives, for some kind of unrealizable idea-dream - this is really dumb and disgusting.
        1. Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 19: 56 New
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          Quote: Nick Russ
          To fight and die for your fatherland is the holy duty and honor of any person.

          But to die and kill their fellow countrymen, and maybe even relatives, for some kind of unrealizable idea-dream - this is really dumb and disgusting.


          It is very good that you invited the forum participants to read the articles of V.I. Lenin.

          V.I. Lenin. Full composition of writings. - 5th ed. - M .: Publishing house of political literature, 1967. Volume 26. “Socialism and war (The attitude of the RSDLP to war). 1915. " S. 307-350
          V.I. Lenin. Full composition of writings. - 5th ed. - M .: Publishing house of political literature, 1967. Volume 26. “On the defeat of his government in the imperialist war. 1915. " S. 286-291.

          There really is a lot of interesting things for those who want to independently deal with civil and non-civil wars, and not listen to the howls of the Olgievichs and the like.

          Here, for example, that V.I. Lenin writes in S. 313, T.26 about such patriots as you.

          “But imagine that a slave owner with 100 slaves is fighting a slave owner with 200 slaves for a more“ fair ”redistribution of slaves. Clear. That the application of the concept of a “defensive" war or "defense of the fatherland" to such a case would be historical falsehood and almost simply a deception of the common people, philistinism, dark people by clever slaveholders. This is precisely what the imperialist bourgeoisie deceives the peoples in the modern war between the slave owners for the consolidation and intensification of slavery ”
          1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 20: 46 New
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            Is Vlasov a traitor or a hero?
            1. Alexander Greene 14 February 2020 00: 44 New
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              Quote: Nick Russ
              Is Vlasov a traitor or a hero?

              As I understand it, this question is for me ....
              Did the USSR fight for slaves or for colonies?. No It was Germany who wanted to enslave us, and not we, them. So decide for yourself: Vlasov is a traitor or a hero?
              1. Nick Russ 14 February 2020 03: 56 New
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                ,, As I understand it, this question is for me ....
                Did the USSR fight for slaves or for colonies?. No It was Germany who wanted to enslave us, and not we them. So decide for yourself: Vlasov is a traitor or a hero ?,

                And in 1812 it was necessary to fight against the French?
                And in 1612 it was necessary to collect the militia and expel the Poles from Moscow and put in place a king?
                And together with Suvorov had to go on the attack?
                And under the command of Ushakov it was necessary to break the Turkish fleet and take Corfu?
                But was it necessary to defend the Motherland at the Battle of Kulikovo under the leadership of Dmitry Donskoy?
                Or to arrange the Battle of Ice with the Livonian Order along with Alexander Nevsky?


                The truth is one. The homeland must be defended regardless of which regime or power. And Judas will remain Judas at all times.

                I am sorry that so many of these seemingly simple things do not understand.
                1. Alexander Greene 14 February 2020 18: 13 New
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                  Quote: Nick Russ
                  I am sorry that so many of these seemingly simple things do not understand.

                  I am also sorry that they do not understand, that they do not see the difference between feudalism, capitalism and imperialism.
                  1. Nick Russ 14 February 2020 19: 33 New
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                    And from what century, year, day, hour could one wish defeat to one’s Motherland and not be a traitor? laughing
                    1. Alexander Greene 15 February 2020 11: 56 New
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                      Quote: Nick Russ
                      And from what century, year, day, hour could one wish defeat to one’s Motherland and not be a traitor?

                      You have a misunderstanding of betrayal, read carefully V.I. Lenin and understand everything. The Bolsheviks did not speak about the defeat of the Motherland, but about the defeat of the tsarist government, and these are two big differences.
                      I hope you do not consider anti-fascists in Nazi Germany traitors.
                      1. Nick Russ 15 February 2020 12: 03 New
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                        That is, the Nazis and the tsarist government an equal sign? belay
                      2. Alexander Greene 15 February 2020 13: 43 New
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                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        That is, the Nazis and the tsarist government an equal sign?

                        But the tsarist government was no better; for example, study how the Old Believers were persecuted, how the rest of the working people were exploited.
                      3. Nick Russ 15 February 2020 14: 16 New
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                        And since Stalin and Lenin persecuted believers, then in 1941-1945, too, had to fight against Russia? Only it is not clear on whose side. Is it not for the United States? Or maybe for Hitler?
                        Good porridge in your head laughing
                      4. Alexander Greene 15 February 2020 17: 02 New
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                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        Good porridge in your head

                        You have porridge. Lenin and Stalin did not persecute believers, but the tsarist government really persecuted the believers that they had to hide in the hermitages. to run abroad. But that is not the point. but the point is capitalism, which cannot develop without wars. You just don’t understand this. A modern example is Ukraine. What are the names of those who do not want to fight against Donbass and Russia? So learn to distinguish between the homeland and the state in the person of government and the nature of wars.
                      5. Nick Russ 15 February 2020 19: 29 New
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                        Of the 179 bishops in 1917, only 1941 remained by 3. And this is only from the bishops. And how many priests, deacons and ordinary believers were shot and served their sentences in the camps is not subject to calculation. And the last priest sat already in 1979. The priesthood was forbidden to the last preaching, otherwise a prison.

                        The Old Believers ceased to pursue in 1905.

                        But the peasantry was deceived by the Bolsheviks. “Land to the peasants,” this slogan-decree turned out to be a fraudulent move to attract people to its side. But in the end, after dispossession and collectivization, the peasantry ceased to exist. More terror than the Bolshevik regime, the Russian people did not know.

                        And no need to hide behind the capitalists. It's not gonna go. Compared to the communists, capitalists are simply, "sweethearts," laughing
                      6. Alexander Greene 15 February 2020 23: 27 New
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                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        And no need to hide behind the capitalists. It's not gonna go. Compared to the communists, capitalists are simply, "sweethearts,"

                        1. Well, now, by your example, we now know: Who are the “friends of capitalism" and how they fight against the working people.
                        2. They shot and imprisoned not for faith but for subversive actions against the Soviet Government.
                        3. During collectivization, there was a civil war of the rural poor, which was combined into collective farms, with kulaks who harmed the collective farm movement
                        4. You did not answer the question: What are the names of those Ukrainian citizens who do not want to fight against Donbass and Russia?
                      7. Nick Russ 16 February 2020 10: 02 New
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                        ,, You did not answer the question: What are the names of those citizens of Ukraine who do not want to fight against Donbass and Russia ?,

                        And Russia is waging war with Ukraine? There is a civil war. You have not only porridge, but also vinaigrette. laughing

                        ,, During collectivization, there was a civil war of the rural poor, which united into collective farms, with kulaks who harmed the collective farm movement,

                        There was a war of loafers and parasites with hard workers (,, fists ,,).

                        ,, They shot and planted not for faith, but for subversive actions against the Soviet Government. ,,

                        I wonder what subversion is in preaching about Christ?
                      8. Alexander Greene 16 February 2020 12: 37 New
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                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        I wonder what subversion is in preaching about Christ?

                        If they were to do just that, no one would touch them, and they would begin with the anathema of the Soviet regime, then help the white movement, then anti-collective farm propaganda and other subversive activities.
                        In Ukraine, the official authorities do not officially declare war, but on TV they constantly declare aggression from Russia (Crimea, Donbass) and those who advocate a peaceful settlement are called traitors.
                        And I don’t need to tell tales about loafers and hard-working fists. I know about this struggle not from the magazine "Spark", so I can tell a lot of things myself ..
                      9. Nick Russ 16 February 2020 14: 28 New
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                        ,, And I do not need to tell tales of loafers and hard-working fists. I know about this struggle not from the magazine "Spark", so I can tell a lot of things myself .. ,,

                        Themselves dispossessed and shot or what? wassat

                        ,, In Ukraine, the official authorities do not officially declare war, but on TV they constantly declare aggression from Russia (Crimea, Donbass) and those who advocate a peaceful settlement are called traitors ,,

                        In Russian, in Ukraine, (are you from there by chance?). Who cares who announces what ?! Objectively, this is a civil war.

                        ,, If they were only doing this, no one would touch them, and they would begin with the anathema of the Soviet regime, then help the white movement, then anti-collective farm propaganda and other subversive activities. ,,

                        Anathema is an official recognition of the falling away from the Church. And what was wrong with that? The Bolsheviks are materialists.
                        Help ... Propaganda ... What did they shoot or forced to shoot? Patriarch Tikhon did not bless the white movement at all.
                        The point is ideological hostility. A sermon on Christ and eternal life runs counter to the materialistic teachings of Lenin-Marx. And believers were killed precisely for faith in Christ. As in the first centuries of Christianity, they are all holy martyrs. But the fate of the Bolsheviks who kill the innocent is very sad.

                        Yes, and for what the innocent children of Nicholas II were killed !? Bolsheviks are murderers and cowardly evil spirits.
                      10. Alexander Greene 16 February 2020 18: 55 New
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                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        Themselves dispossessed and shot or what?

                        Not myself, but my older comrades and my parents spoke about the crimes of the kulaks quite a bit.

                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        Anathema is an official recognition of the falling away from the Church. And what was wrong with that? The Bolsheviks are materialists.

                        From the anathema, the Bolsheviks are neither cold nor hot. Only now, in the conditions of the outbreak of civil war, was it perceived as a call to fight against the Bolsheviks, and almost the entire clergy opposed the Soviet power and participated in counter-revolutionary conspiracies, led anti-Soviet propaganda. No one was planted for faith in Christ. So do not lie.

                        Quote: Nick Russ
                        Yes, and for what the innocent children of Nicholas II were killed !?

                        And at the expense of the royal family, read the materials of modern research. The Bolsheviks wanted to judge the tsar by open court, a special man was sent with a detachment to Yekaterinburg to bring the tsar and his family to Moscow, but this was not possible under the Kolchak’s offensive. What happened there, scientists are still arguing ... And not everything is there as clear as you think.
                      11. Nick Russ 16 February 2020 19: 20 New
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                        I realized that this conversation does not make sense. All the same, everyone will remain with their own. So wish you all the best smile
            2. Cyril G ... 4 May 2020 15: 08 New
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              The Old Believers were ceased to be persecuted with a fright in 1905. And before that, so many people were crushed that Polpot was cut off by envy.
  • ccsr 13 February 2020 20: 14 New
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    Quote: Nick Russ
    But to die and kill their fellow countrymen, and maybe even relatives, for some kind of unrealizable idea-dream - this is really dumb and disgusting.

    Well, why, then, in February 1917 did our ruling class betray the king and demand his abdication? Did they not understand that this was not only vile, but would lead to chaos and fratricidal Civil War? If they were fools, then it’s right that the Bolsheviks took power from them. But they were not fools, but were scoundrels who wanted even greater enrichment, which is why their removal from our political life did not greatly agitate the masses, and this is a fact. So the people didn’t go for the idea of ​​fixation, but because they saw what troubles would ensue due to the fact that balabol and trepach would come to power, thinking of themselves in the first place. By the way, after 1991, we really experienced this when the Semibankirism was tearing the whole country, and the people saw all the horror that ensued from their rule, which is why mature people see Putin as a guarantee of stability.
    1. Nick Russ 13 February 2020 20: 50 New
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      ,, But they were not fools, but were scoundrels ,,

      They were fools too. And they were very sorry for what they had done, seeing all the troubles and consequences of the king’s betrayal.
      1. ccsr 13 February 2020 20: 55 New
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        Quote: Nick Russ
        They were fools too. And they were very sorry for what they had done, seeing all the troubles and consequences of the king’s betrayal.

        One can agree with this, but their repentance can only be partially believed - only to those who later honestly served their people, although many of them suffered undeservedly from the Soviet regime.
  • rocket757 13 February 2020 07: 47 New
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    Our state is throwing, the authorities want it, many do not understand what!
    It is clear that they want to eat a fish, while for some reason, that would not have been planted, forcibly ...
    Society is not monolithic, not single, and will not become one until some people destroy the old monuments, MEMORY of our, different, past ... and others at that moment will sculpt a remake and rewrite history as they want.
    It is high time to stop and accept everything, as it was and begin to live without division within the country into our \ not ours \, right \ not right!
    There are clear criteria, there is an enemy who is against THIS COUNTRY in general, i.e. a vorog, a traitor and all, stop here for now. Anything different is climbing in our country, which can destroy OUR country completely and completely. In the face of such a threat, one must be a single people.
  • Lamata 13 February 2020 07: 55 New
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    Again, the past is tousled, this white essence, the essence of people who betrayed the emperor, climbs out (not all, but many of the large commanders unequivocally supported Nicholas 2 only Graf Keller - German, and Khan Nakhichevan - Muslim, confrontation or abdication or abstained) And Denikin, stupidly evacuated and killed a bunch of people.
    1. bober1982 13 February 2020 08: 13 New
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      Quote: Lamata
      And Denikin, who stupidly evacuated and killed a bunch of people.

      Denikin had nothing to do with the evacuation, from affairs, by then he had retired.
      Quote: Lamata
      but many of the major commanders unequivocally supported Nicholas 2 only Count Keller - German, and Khan of Nakhichevan - Muslim, commander or for abdication or abstained

      It is not entirely clear that everyone left the Tsar except Keller and Khan Nakhichevan.
      1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 38 New
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        All the high command betrayed the tsar, well, or simply did not support
        1. bober1982 13 February 2020 10: 41 New
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          Then how to understand this, in your previous comment?
          Quote: Lamata
          not all, but many of the major commanders unequivocally supported Nicholas 2
          1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 50 New
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            Olepatka, it was a difficult morning.
      2. Alexey RA 13 February 2020 11: 11 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        Denikin had nothing to do with the evacuation, from affairs, by then he had retired.

        Formally, he was the commander in chief. And the responsibility for the Novorossiysk nightmare was blamed on him.
        As time went. The nightmare of the Novorossiysk evacuation began, in which Denikin left his army to the mercy of fate and to the mercy of the winner.
        He himself completely lost heart and was unsuitable for anything; his name was pronounced with curses ...
        The strata of the population who sympathized with the Volunteer Army openly spoke, like the army, of the need for its replacement, and two deputies — Wrangel and I — were nominated. To get involved in this whole history of civil administration, I did not consider myself capable. With the "allies" I was on knives. Wrangelism would go on, breaking up the front, and I resolutely rejected any idea of ​​becoming the head of the movement, especially with my personal internal schism and the need to get along with allies who would help in vain.

        A Novorossiysk evacuation took place, the details of which are sufficiently described and which I will not write about. Gangs of distracted and cursing Denikin and the entire White Command arrived in Crimea, and at that time, in Sevastopol, according to the report of the head of counterintelligence of Sevastopol and the sea, a speech of sympathizing red elements was to take place.
        © Slashchev
    2. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 37 New
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      Denikin was just at that time at the head of the All-Union Socialist League.
      1. bober1982 13 February 2020 10: 46 New
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        Quote: Lamata
        Denikin was just at that time at the head of the All-Union Socialist League.

        In April 1920, Wrangel dismissed Denikin from the command of the All-Russian Union of Liberal Democratic Forces, in November 1920 the evacuation of white units and civilians began, and where does Denikin and the evacuation?
        From your own comment:
        Quote: Lamata
        And Denikin, who stupidly evacuated and killed a bunch of people.
        1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 49 New
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          Mlyn ,. may have forgotten. need to refresh, thanks for the criticism.
          1. bober1982 13 February 2020 10: 50 New
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            It happens that they’ll be confused.
            1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 51 New
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              Ischo thanks
              1. bober1982 13 February 2020 10: 52 New
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                And, thank you, I sincerely say that maybe we’re at something different, people are all different.
                1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 59 New
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                  Discrepancies are not personal. And so, well, your opinion, yours, mine, did not agree, not a reason for tension. Rakhmet for your understanding.
        2. Alexey RA 13 February 2020 13: 10 New
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          Quote: bober1982
          In April 1920, Wrangel dismissed Denikin from the command of the All-Russian Union of Liberal Democratic Forces, in November 1920 the evacuation of white units and civilians began, and where does Denikin and the evacuation?

          Ummm ... but is the evacuation of Novorossiysk not described in the article in March 1920 discussed?
          1. bober1982 13 February 2020 13: 29 New
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            Quote: Alexey RA
            Ummm ... but is the evacuation of Novorossiysk not described in the article in March 1920 discussed?

            I haven’t read the article, and I don’t read such articles, except, perhaps, diagonally, in haste.
            Comments are of interest.
        3. Lamata 13 February 2020 16: 20 New
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          Ai comrade, you are wrong, Novorossiysk disaster March (end of March) 1920, April 9, Deniken was dismissed from his post. So Denikin is guilty of the evacuation.
          1. Alexey RA 13 February 2020 17: 29 New
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            Quote: Lamata
            Ai comrade, you are wrong, Novorossiysk disaster March (end of March) 1920, April 9, Deniken was dismissed from his post. So Denikin is guilty of the evacuation.

            Duc .. in the evacuations of the White Army at the end of the GV is no wonder confused. smile
            1. Lamata 13 February 2020 18: 39 New
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              The Novorossiysk disaster itself is famous. And to compare the evacuation from Novorrosiysk, terrible just under Denikin, and the evacuation from the Crimea under Wrangel, carried out in a much more organized way.
          2. bober1982 13 February 2020 17: 38 New
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            Quote: Lamata
            It happens that they’ll be confused.
  • Cowbra 13 February 2020 08: 39 New
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    By the way, the topic is tough. It is treated only with time, strange. a hundred years have passed, but not healed. White-red-green ... As they were. and stayed. But things like a monument must be toughly nipped.
    Although how? Vaughn Poklonskaya is the same - the other day she suggested compiling a list of persons whose excuses should not be allowed, such as Nazi collaborators. The idea seems to be a good one. only Krasnov with Turkul and Shkuro get there instantly, and she. as a monarchist, she won’t write them down.
    But anyway. such plumes as a monument in Novorossiysk or this scruffy board with the praise of Shkur (the surname according to the passport is not Shkuro, but Shkura is the skin) - you must not allow
    1. bober1982 13 February 2020 08: 46 New
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      Quote: Cowbra
      and she. like a monarchist

      She is not a monarchist, she was mistaken, she herself admitted.
    2. Varyag_0711 13 February 2020 08: 46 New
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      In fact, Poklonskaya turned out to be a little sick at all. And indeed, in my opinion, all these buncrusts are terminally ill and there is only one recipe for healing, through another cage from the grateful people!
    3. mat-vey 14 February 2020 04: 36 New
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      Quote: Cowbra
      By the way, the topic is tough. It is treated only with time, strange. a hundred years have passed, but not healed.

      Duck will heal if the reasons for the "theme" leading bloom in all its might and beauty.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. rich 14 February 2020 05: 16 New
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      Cowbra: the surname according to the passport is not Skin, but Skin - the skin is

      But just according to the passport, his last name was .... - Shkuransky!
      In November 1917, military foreman A.G. Shkura filed a petition with the government to change his name to Shkuransky, which was officially approved. Nevertheless, it is known that in the documents of 1918 his last name was written as before, “Skin”, and in 1919 - already as “Skin”
    6. The comment was deleted.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 February 2020 09: 06 New
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    We must begin with the fact that the Civil War in fact began with the February Revolution.
    1. bukhach 13 February 2020 10: 17 New
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      This is the second civil, the first began in 1905. In my opinion, the entire 20th century for Russia was a solid civilian of varying degrees of intensity, and the 21st began with the war between Russian citizens, I mean the Caucasus.
  • Sadam 13 February 2020 09: 08 New
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    as an option, a monument to Gazmanov))) my thoughts my horses pierce skok))
    1. bober1982 13 February 2020 09: 11 New
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      Quote: Sadam
      as an option, a monument to Gazmanov)

      Or, Rosalia Samoilovna Zalkind (whooper - Zemlyachka), a prominent Bolshevichka.
      1. vladcub 13 February 2020 09: 45 New
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        White also had such scum.
        1. bober1982 13 February 2020 09: 46 New
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          Quote: vladcub
          White also had such filth

          There was such darkness, including among the whites, I agree.
        2. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 39 New
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          Civil war is all mud
      2. Looking for 13 February 2020 17: 16 New
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        and what actually is bad.? in that it was merciless to the White Guard trash? So this is its undeniable advantage.
        1. bober1982 13 February 2020 17: 41 New
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          Quote: Seeker
          and what, in fact, is bad.?

          She was a witch, apparently she had hoofs instead of heels.
        2. Lamata 13 February 2020 18: 40 New
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          They went their own against their own, it often happened that the relative was on the opposite side. Yes, read the Quiet Don.
  • karabass 13 February 2020 09: 21 New
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    The article is good, it’s written correctly! But allow me, dear author, why did you drag Kochubey here?
    Do you know his biography? Such as he scumbags in a lifelong mode on the fingers of one hand can be counted! Ataman Makhno by comparison and him is a pure angel
  • vladcub 13 February 2020 09: 43 New
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    Civil war is a great tragedy for the people. Shuffles from extreme to extreme utter nonsense. Unfortunately, they cannot do it without extremes: at first everything that happened before 1917 was bad, but now it's the other way around.
    The Chinese are smarter in this regard: they do not shy away to extremes
    1. bober1982 13 February 2020 09: 48 New
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      Quote: vladcub
      Unfortunately, we cannot

      At first there were celebrations, then - executions.
      1. Lamata 13 February 2020 10: 39 New
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        and then decided to combine.
        1. bober1982 13 February 2020 10: 48 New
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          Quote: Lamata
          and then decided to combine

          A masterpiece! like all films of M. Zakharov
          1. Lamata 13 February 2020 11: 38 New
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            Good memory to Mark Anatolyevich. great films were.
          2. vladcub 13 February 2020 18: 34 New
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            I agree: Zakharov was a good director, but now I only remember the films of Gaidai. At work, they’re golovnyaki and I just want to: recall the “Caucasian Captive”
            1. Lamata 13 February 2020 18: 41 New
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              Also a good deal.
  • Blue fox 13 February 2020 09: 50 New
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    My opinion is as follows. It’s important to remember the outcome, if you don’t tell when Russia lost so many Russians, it’s a tragedy (I don’t mean war criminals and villains, but children, scientists, artists, etc. picked up by the current) .The monument is also needed, but it should be to others. Let there be the same departing “Vysotsky with a horse”, but next to him the Red Army man calmly looking at him with a rifle behind his back and the date on the monument. And words and other splashes of kalometaniya to anything.
    1. Lamata 13 February 2020 12: 36 New
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      I agree with you, this will be another step towards reconciliation
      1. vladcub 13 February 2020 19: 19 New
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        In Krasnodar there is a monument: "Consent and application", a chopped hat and a budenovka nearby. In my opinion, the correct symbolism
        1. Lamata 13 February 2020 20: 45 New
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          And where in Krasnodar, I was there about the past and the year before last. area do not prompt?
    2. Moskovit 13 February 2020 12: 59 New
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      Yes, a good idea. It’s not just that they left Russia forever, and others didn’t just happened to be ashore with rifles.
  • Sapsan136 13 February 2020 10: 46 New
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    In Russia, there is an old saying - you won’t wash a black dog up to white ... As long as it’s not mine, it’s still black ... Now, however, it’s not my tsar’s regime, but the responsibility for the revolution in Russia lies with it, and not Germans, Japanese, Lenin and aliens ... Satisfied with life people will not go to the barricades, this must be remembered before writing stupid things about the allegedly holy king and his entourage, among which thieves, criminals and crooks guilty of terrible crimes, smeared out by the king from punishment, because relatives (don’t they remind you of anything today?) and who deserved from the people the klikuha Prince Tsusimsky ... whose owner, abandoned by rotten tomatoes and fled from Russia, along with stolen exorbitant (labor) and a French girl, with low social responsibility, his mistress and diamonds on her neck, paid for by the blood of thousands of Russian sailors .. during Tsushima ... in the Yellow Sea, near Sakhalin and Korea ..
  • Nick 13 February 2020 11: 03 New
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    In a civil war, there is no just the right and only the guilty. Both sides were mixed, both sides were guilty, and both were right about something. It is time to recognize the events of the civil war as a tragedy of the entire Russian people, no matter who fought on whose side. And make peace already!
  • Strashila 13 February 2020 11: 13 New
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    After a hundred Siberians remember the atrocities of the White Cossacks.
  • Mikhail3 13 February 2020 13: 07 New
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    Even if all the “heroes” listed on the crosses were slowly processed alive into sausages, it still would not have served them as a reward for the sins, guilt and suffering inflicted on the country by them. starting from the Don Cossacks, who vilely betrayed the oath, about the foreman of which there is nothing to say, except about that betrayal and indelible disgrace. It is not surprising that the descendants of the traitors try to scrape Judah's seal from their ancestors. Only to no avail.
    And also the white nobility, officers, scientists, officials, rich ... Owning the Russian State, they allowed its complete collapse. Managing it poorly, breeding nepotism, bribery and stupidity, handing out ranks and kinship by kinship and acquaintance, and not by business qualities (doesn’t it remind me of anything?), Betraying common interests in favor of their personal interests, these people allowed a terrible bloody hurricane to arise in the country.
    It should be ashamed of all this scum, and not to erect monuments to them. But what to do? The descendants of thieves, bandits and traitors seek to wash away dirt and blood from their ancestors, and thereby justify their own theft, banditry and betrayal. Leading the country to where? Isn’t the next bloody whirlwind?
    1. Sadam 13 February 2020 20: 39 New
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      I agree that the elite did not behave better once they allowed it and there is a parallel with the current state of affairs. although when I was studying in school using Soviet textbooks, I remember among Lenin’s supporters that the methods were so-so - red terror - a large chapter devoted to ....
      1. Mikhail3 14 February 2020 09: 00 New
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        The elite are judged by RESULTS. Be they just thieves and bandits ... However, the Russian Empire, the country of Russians, was so strange, different from the rest of the world, that now people simply can not imagine it. The highest moral qualities of the people who inhabit it ... were built directly into the governance structure. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why the elites of the rest of the world hated Russia so fiercely, therefore, everyone fought a united front against the Russian country, therefore ...
        However, this is a separate topic, which is not in the comments to speak.
  • bandabas 13 February 2020 13: 12 New
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    “Mummers” they are “mummers”. Ugh.
  • Gardamir 13 February 2020 13: 25 New
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    Firstly, if this is a civil war, then what did the Americans, the British, the French, the Japanese do in Russia. Why aren’t the Germans and Czechs hurrying home. Finally what the Australians forgot. More like a continuation of the First World War.
    Secondly, why didn’t anyone come out to defend the king? Why was the king under arrest until October 1917?
    Now the answer is why no one came out to defend the Soviet Union. The lawful head of the USSR, substituting an article in the Constitution, gathered a congress of people's deputies, who began to zealously rock the boat. Then also the legally elected president of the RSFSR gave the peoples "freedom". What is the crime, not everyone even understood what was happening.
    1. bober1982 13 February 2020 13: 54 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      Why was the king under arrest until October 1917?

      After October 1917, both the Tsar and the Family were also under arrest, right up to the execution in July 1918.
      1. Gardamir 13 February 2020 14: 16 New
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        Well, after October, the Bolsheviks clearly swore there.
        But why did white, and even fluffy, keep the king’s darling under arrest?
        1. bober1982 13 February 2020 14: 19 New
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          Quote: Gardamir
          But why did white, and even fluffy, keep the king’s darling under arrest?

          They didn’t keep them white, they didn’t exist yet, but the Kerensky government - there were only Masons there, here they are (ominous Masons) and carried out the order of the ominous Masonic backstage.
          1. Alexey RA 13 February 2020 17: 34 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            They didn’t keep them white, they didn’t exist yet, but the Kerensky government - there were only Masons there, here they are (ominous Masons) and carried out the order of the ominous Masonic backstage.

            Meanwhile in the castle at the chef other sinister Masons, following the order of the ominous Masonic backstage, did everything they could to masons from the Provisional Government at the hands of the Masonic Councils and the damned Masonic Bolsheviks. laughing
            1. bober1982 13 February 2020 17: 52 New
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              Quote: Alexey RA
              At that time, other sinister Masons in the chief’s castle, following the order of the ominous Masonic backstage, did everything they could to harm the Masons from the Provisional Government at the hands of the Masonic Councils and the damned Masonic Bolsheviks

              They sacrificed them, it was a Masonic trifle, they did not differ too much from the profane.
              But, the main reason, in my opinion, of course, for the reason that Kerensky was allowed to replace Lenin with Trotsky, was that Kerensky and his comrades did not justify trust, was too soft-skinned and indecisive. Those who simply would have been crushed, shredded and break through the knee. And, as you know, there were such people. There is such a party! The bloody massacre began, these justified hopes.
              Further, Stalin got out of submission to the ominous forces, simultaneously shooting almost all resolute comrades. This was not forgiven him.
              1. Karen 13 February 2020 20: 03 New
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                Quote: bober1982
                But, the main reason, in my opinion, of course, for the reason that Kerensky was allowed to replace Lenin with Trotsky, was that Kerensky and his comrades did not justify trust, was too soft-skinned and indecisive. Those who simply would have been crushed, shredded and break through the knee. And, as you know, there were such people. There is such a party!

                Not so much because of the softness they threw Kerensky ... Those Masons who were behind Kerensky ordered him to take Istanbul with a blow from the south ... And this could not be allowed by the jimasons who stood behind Trotsky ... Do not dump from accounts that the operational plans of Ghevolus revolution in the Republic of Ingushetia and the role of bald syphilitic in it were discussed precisely in Turkey: there were such Khazar bottoms Parvus and Trotsky ... But the greyhounds could not allow the implementation of the Anglo-Freemasons plans to go to Kerensky in Turkish, a native of the Hazaras ...
                1. mat-vey 14 February 2020 04: 20 New
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                  "Karen (Karen) Yesterday, 20:03 New"
                  Well, you my friend ... This is the same mail, sorry IN, here it is necessary to warn about sarcasm ...
            2. parusnik 13 February 2020 18: 12 New
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              hi Greetings! Five points! good
          2. vladcub 13 February 2020 19: 28 New
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            I agree with the Freemasons - that organization too: they were against the tsar, but the Soviet Union was also disgusting to them
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. mat-vey 14 February 2020 04: 23 New
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      Quote: Gardamir
      . What is the crime, not everyone even understood what was happening.

      It seems that even now oh how many do not understand ..
  • Graz 13 February 2020 14: 48 New
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    Instead of uniting the nation, subversive elements in power only disconnect it by conducting similar events
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. vladcub 13 February 2020 19: 32 New
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      Kerensky was indeed the head of the Provisional Government. Who remembers the official name of Russia until October 1917?
      1. Fat
        Fat 13 February 2020 22: 52 New
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        Quote: vladcub
        Kerensky was indeed the head of the Provisional Government. Who remembers the official name of Russia until October 1917?

        Until January 1918, the Russian Republic.
        The constituent assembly was going to name the country the Russian Democratic Federal Republic. SNK did not approve
  • Pacifist with AK 13 February 2020 17: 45 New
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    Quote: Gardamir
    Firstly, if this is a civil war, then what did the Americans, the British, the French, the Japanese do in Russia. Why aren’t the Germans and Czechs hurrying home. Finally what the Australians forgot. More like a continuation of the First World War.
    Secondly, why didn’t anyone come out to defend the king? Why was the king under arrest until October 1917?
    Now the answer is why no one came out to defend the Soviet Union. The lawful head of the USSR, substituting an article in the Constitution, gathered a congress of people's deputies, who began to zealously rock the boat. Then also the legally elected president of the RSFSR gave the peoples "freedom". What is the crime, not everyone even understood what was happening.

    Often I disagree with you, but here is another matter. The correct post. Good luck hi
  • parusnik 13 February 2020 18: 09 New
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    Desovetization is underway in Russia, slow, as in other republics, unfortunately, of the former USSR ... By the way, desovetization has given DAM a green light ... remember the box speeches that Russia must be finally and irrevocably de-Stalinized, under this word was meant de-Sovietization ...
    1. Karen 13 February 2020 23: 11 New
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      Dear, tell me, pliz, why are the Red-bellied complaining about the current government? Indeed, today the main beneficiaries of the situation are the descendants of the burry burrowing in the 17th power ... Rotenbergs, for example ...
      And then I have a suspicion that this discontent is caused by the fact that they (the Co-ops) do not get their pieces of silver, as it was received by then-long military experts and other traitors ...
  • depressant 13 February 2020 19: 43 New
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    So I had a chance to remember ...
    My long-dead grandfather, Andrei Sumskoy, was a coroner with Vanya Kochubey.
  • Alexander Greene 13 February 2020 20: 04 New
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    Quote: Nick Russ
    And I do not condone either one or the other. But the big fault is on the Bolsheviks.

    Why is it suddenly on them?
    When the Bolsheviks came to power, they released all their opponents on parole, so the whole Provisional Government was released, so the rebel generals were released. Many of them kept their word and did not fight against the Soviet regime, but there were those who declared war on the Soviet government not for life but for death, and they are traitors to their people, because relied on foreign bayonets.
  • Marine engineer 13 February 2020 21: 38 New
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    “The chieftain of the Black Sea Cossack District Sergey Savotin put all the dots over i, .......”

    Helpful is more dangerous than the enemy
  • Radikal 14 February 2020 20: 36 New
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    Quote: vladcub
    They were all: the Komsomol, the Communist Party: B.N. or E.T. and others. Kohl joked somehow: if V.V. says that he considers himself a member of the Communist Party, then the whole EP will be in the Communist Party

    wassat wassat wassat good Respect! bully hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Yury Siritsky 16 February 2020 14: 13 New
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    These newfound chieftains, who they were under the Soviet regime, and now he sings about the ancestrally murdered innocent. With people like Hamilions changing colors, Russia will not go far.
  • mexanik62 4 March 2020 06: 38 New
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    Quote: karabass

    And with the collapse of the USSR, almost no one was found who would like to defend it with weapons in their hands!

    Well, yes, the next civil war in the Russian Empire that the Western puppeteers so dream of, the next - ... "Yesaul, why did you abandon the horse" ...? By and large, she is now walking. Only thanks to the efforts of the country's leadership is localized in the Donbass.
  • Vadim777 20 March 2020 20: 32 New
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    I am sorry that the raskachachivanie or at least dispossession of the author did not slip through the author’s family ....
    1. Jager 24 March 2020 23: 42 New
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      To be dispossessed, one must be a fist. So, for starters.
  • Jager 24 March 2020 23: 41 New
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    I wonder what relation to the fighting, real Cossacks have the crowd mummers with medals?
  • Stalnov I.P. April 2 2020 14: 17 New
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    We in Russia have always had certain corrupt sous-i, and how many Red Army whites have been cut off, keep silent. Even the corrupt generals have been pulled out by the fascists, so what kind of Cossacks are you support for the Fatherland, maybe you will start to smear the Cossacks of the Great Patriotic War. Shredded a certain layer of Cossacks. This is disgusting and disgusting.