Military Review

Artificial states of Central Asia - a threat to Russia's national security

472
Artificial states of Central Asia - a threat to Russia's national security It is obvious that Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan are artificial states. They were created in two stages. At the first stage, the international wing of the Bolshevik Party, which was under the complete control of the "financial international", conducted a national-territorial demarcation of the territory of Great Russia. Joseph Stalin muffled the dangerous processes of creating national elites, intellectuals saturated with Russophobia. However, due to the mass of other priorities and problems, the dangerous division of the USSR into national-territorial units was not eliminated. After the death of the red emperor, the processes of decay intensified, the Soviet republics became a stronghold for the hidden "fifth column", people who dreamed of becoming parochial presidents, khans, bais, princes. Obviously, the life of the majority of the population in Central Asia, due to the destruction of the USSR, has only deteriorated, both in terms of security and in terms of the degradation of the general systems of the state - education and upbringing, medicine, culture, science, national economy At the second stage, by the will of the traitors, the territory of the empire was dismembered. Gorbachev, Yeltsin and other gentlemen became the people who killed millions of people and destroyed the building under construction for centuries.


The simultaneous appearance of artificial Central Asian states has led to many problems. Moscow has lost millions of hands. Moscow abandoned the Russians in Central Asia, which, under the conditions of wild growth of parochial primitive nationalism and radical Islam, led to a great tragedy (it has not yet been completed). The Russian Federation and its population received transparent borders in the south and the flow of drugs weapons, smuggled goods. Only drugs take the lives of thousands of people every year. Russia got the problem of growing ethnic crime, the emergence of ethnic mafias, along with the growth of Central Asian communities. The degradation of the economy in the countries of Central Asia led to an increase in the influx of migrants in the Russian Federation. Russia has lost a number of important deposits of natural resources. The departure of Russia from the region led to the economic expansion of Western corporations, China, and several countries of the Islamic world.

In the field of military security, we received the threat of the emergence of the Central Asian front of a global war. In the medium term, the threat of a military conflict in Central Asia, which will affect Russia and its CSTO allies, is very likely. Russia, at least, will have to defend the territory of Kazakhstan. Last news from the countries of the Central Asian region only confirm this view. All countries of the region have both internal prerequisites for conflict and external ones. Sources of internal conflicts are social tensions, degradation of the economy in some countries (it cannot feed the present population), clan and regional competition (most clearly in Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan), ethnic contradictions (Uzbek-Tajik, Kyrgyz-Uzbek), the problem of water and the availability of agricultural land.

So, because of the skirmish on the border, which took place on July 17, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan were already technically in a state of war. Uzbekistan stated that Kyrgyz border guards carried out an “armed bandit attack”. The incident occurred on the evening of July 17, when in the unmarked territory local residents tried to repair the road and attracted the attention of border guards of the two states. The border guards demanded to suspend work, but civilians took an aggressive stance and refused to stop work. Having exhausted the verbal arguments, the Uzbek soldiers opened a warning fire, after which an exchange of fire began between border guards. Who was the first to use a weapon to kill, is still unknown. One Uzbek border guard was killed, the other was seriously wounded. Tashkent blamed the incident on Bishkek. Kyrgyz authorities protested to Tashkent. The statement of Tashkent leads to the fact that the fact of aggression can be interpreted as a state of war. In this case, Uzbekistan reserves the right to initiate retaliatory actions. It is clear that at the present time there will be no war, but for now. The next time the situation may go into a stage of serious armed conflict. Provocation on the border very often becomes a pretext for a full-scale war.

There are also serious external prerequisites for war in the Central Asian region:

- The strategy of the United States and parts of the Western elites to incite a fire in Eurasia and Africa. Huge territories from the countries of Central Africa to the borders of Russia, India and China are trying to turn into a "sea of ​​fire". The countries of Central Asia are a kind of “weak link” that will bring a lot of problems both to Russia, and to China and Iran.

- The expansion of radical Islam. This field is played by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and there are interests of Turkey. The United States also supports radical Islamists, being in a strategic alliance with them. Radical Islam is the ram by which traditional, secular states are destroyed. Non-feudal debris is easier to inscribe in the New World Order than large states.

Russia, playing by the rules of the West, gained an unstable, dangerous region in the south, which at any time could lead to the need to create a Central Asian front. The only way out is to return to Central Asia, to take full responsibility for it, within the framework of restoring Great Russia. Nonsense about the "feeding of Central Asia" (the Caucasus, etc.) must be forgotten. We already bear even greater strategic, demographic, financial and economic losses due to leaving our territory. Otherwise, Central Asia will become part of the “World Caliphate”, the Celestial Empire, or an inferno zone like Somalia and Afghanistan. The choice is obvious.
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  1. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 23 July 2012 08: 23
    +16
    The most correct thing is to take two bays of the Kyrgyz and Uzbek and set both brains. There will be no plank there. Russian sheep-postuk will measure their strength and their greatness, which the prince does not have!
    1. Dmitriy69
      Dmitriy69 23 July 2012 09: 00
      +12
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The most correct thing is to take two bays of the Kyrgyz and Uzbek and set both brains.

      Judging by the shooting incident, there’s nothing special to set up
      1. Diogenes
        Diogenes 24 July 2012 10: 59
        +8
        Quote: Dmitriy69
        Judging by the shooting incident, there’s nothing special to set up

        But the reason is good; to enter and restore order, while the amers are not swollen.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 24 July 2012 17: 18
          +4
          And when the amers and Westerners entered Libya and put things in order, how dare they, scoundrels and scoundrels.
      2. bazilio
        bazilio 24 July 2012 17: 15
        +11
        Sure. It is objective to judge the intellectual level of Central Asians by the images of the Ravshanajumshuts. But in fact, there are people among Central Asians who write much more literate in Russian than Russians themselves, especially young people. And again, minus this comment, again I showed the "speck".
    2. Shuhrat turani
      Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 11: 10
      +4
      The Russian shepherd will turn out to be a ram for the West in the th run. You would have hidden your pride deeper, it’s not beautiful to trump your society with your primitive nationalism ...
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 23 July 2012 12: 55
        +9
        If the head of state is a buy-in who does not understand where he is going, then there is definitely no fault of mine! Better bitter, but true than a beautiful star. And as for the Russian shepherd, you correctly noticed, but only in rams each time (based on history) the west remains.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 24 July 2012 17: 19
          0
          about understanding who is going where it is true, justifiably, they brought a bunch of facts to prove))))
      2. Nickname
        Nickname 23 July 2012 13: 41
        +3
        Not beautiful in what society? You tell it to the Americans
        1. 755962
          755962 23 July 2012 16: 28
          +4
          Quote: Nickname
          Not beautiful in what society? You tell it to the Americans

          Exactly. They are still those hypocrites.
          Pentagon tutorial teaches that Islam is the enemy and that it’s possible for Mecca to use “Hiroshima-like” options
          Courses for US Army officers teach that America’s enemy is Islam in itself, and not just terrorists, and suggests that the United States could eventually destroy the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina without regard to the number of victims, repeating the precedent of World War II when Hiroshima was attacked by nuclear weapons or bombed by Dresden.
          http://mixednews.ru/archives/18034
      3. mars6791
        mars6791 24 July 2012 00: 16
        -2
        Since what kind of x you are climbing to us, with your guest workers, as Putin arrives, immediately order yourself a kafan. on the territory of Russia, jackals take advantage of the lion's weakness.
        1. valton
          valton 24 July 2012 17: 19
          +4
          for mars6791
          Explain to me the incomprehensible, what did you write?
    3. FiremanRS
      FiremanRS 23 July 2012 22: 12
      +10
      "After the death of the red emperor, the processes of decay intensified, the Soviet republics became a stronghold for the hidden" fifth column ", people who dreamed of becoming local presidents, khans, bays, princes." - this in my opinion says it all. Until all the "members of the CPSU" of the 80s leave power, the very ones that led the USSR to destruction and devastation, the very ones who now sit at the helm of power, but the Empire cannot be restored in a different capacity!
      1. Diogenes
        Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 09
        +8
        Quote: FiremanRS
        Until all the "members of the CPSU" of the 80s leave power, the very ones that led the USSR to destruction and devastation, the very ones that are now sitting at the helm of power, but the Empire cannot be restored in a different capacity

        I subscribe to each letter!
      2. Pessimist2014
        Pessimist2014 27 July 2012 15: 52
        +2
        Alas, the departure of the "former", for example, in Georgia, not only did not improve the situation, but also led to cave nationalism + deradication of all spheres of economic and cultural life of the region's population!
    4. bazilio
      bazilio 24 July 2012 17: 11
      +6
      Here are all the United States (and I, too, among them) for Syria and Iran. Tell me, Alexander, if we change the words Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan to .. say Syria and Iran, and Russia to the USA, then conceptually what is changing? Here is the result: The most correct is to take the two sultans of Syria and Iran and set both brains. Until there is Amerovsky shepherd-rams will be measured by forces and their greatness, which in principle does not exist. An old proverb about a speck of a log and someone else’s eye works. Well, everything, this comment will be regarded as pro-Western and will begin to minus. And then a second analogy arises about the information war))) Minus, comrades, I do not mind.
      1. Facturin
        Facturin 24 July 2012 17: 44
        +4
        bazilio [/
        I put you a bold plus for the beautiful Russian language !!!
        But what is the thought? You about Thomas, and you are all about eryoma.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 25 July 2012 08: 35
          +3
          Mr. Facturin
          Thank you for the plus, of course, but this is not the main thing.
          About my Russian, let's not, I'm Russian myself and this is my native language.
          About Thomas and Yerem:
          Read the very first comments. It turns out that foreign policy and views, for which many on this site scold amers, is applicable to the Russian Federation in relation to the Russian Federation? Citizens of the Russian Federation consider acceptable such a disdainful attitude to the foreign policy towards some Central Asian countries?
          And the article itself is a provocation. Everything is presented in such a perspective, as if not people live in Central Asia, but some backward and flawed, not civilized, who, when they see, for example, a mobile phone, they shout "at the shaitanam." so it turns out. in Central Asia are ruled by some small bai, a la tribal leaders?
          And then these commentators, when someone from the West begins to talk about Russia and Russians, that everyone there is thumping, wearing earflaps, playing balalaikas and riding bears, righteous anger begins here. Do you think this is fair?
    5. John
      John 29 July 2012 20: 54
      -1
      vomla, at first the union was ruined, but now - "The only way out is to return to Central Asia, to take full responsibility for it, within the framework of the restoration of Great Russia. Nonsense about" feeding Central Asia "(the Caucasus, etc.) should be forgotten. We and so we bear even greater strategic, demographic, financial and economic losses due to the withdrawal from our territory. Otherwise, Central Asia will become part of the “World Caliphate”, the Celestial Empire or an inferno zone like Somalia and Afghanistan. The choice is obvious. "

      PS no words, some drooling wassat
    6. Chilim
      Chilim 7 August 2014 11: 49
      +1
      Alexander, do not you think that you look a bit like Klitschko in your analyzes?
  2. Afftar
    Afftar 23 July 2012 08: 24
    +9
    In fact, everything is something like this. Moreover, given the increased role of Russia in the geopolitical field, the "friends of Russia" will make every effort to destabilize the countries around it. There are so many prerequisites for this in these countries that do not spoil it.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 03
      +3
      Where do you see the growing role of Russia in the geopolitical field? Do mercy - give at least one example of this!
      1. Kaa
        Kaa 23 July 2012 17: 47
        +5
        Quote: Brother Sarich
        Where do you see the growing role of Russia in the geopolitical field? Do mercy - give at least one example of this!

        1) Contrary to all the efforts of the neighbors, Tajikistan so far (UNTIL) not in the hands of the Taliban.
        2) Contrary to the "color revolutions" Kyrgyzstan UNTIL did not engage in self-firefight.
        3)
        4)
        5)
        You can go on for a very long time, but it’s boring, he who has ears and hears, the reader of the Internet will read, the seeker will promise, he will criticize - go on yourself ...
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 14
          +1
          So the Taliban have not yet climbed into Tajikistan, nothing calmed down in Kyrgyzstan - continue?
          1. Kaa
            Kaa 24 July 2012 02: 21
            +3
            Quote: Brother Sarich
            nothing calmed down in Kyrgyzstan - continue?

            Go on, go on, strengthen your friendship with the United States, you see, when they flee from Afgan, used Humvees and dry closets will get in exchange for a couple of new bases, no one will be forced. Gaddafi even climbed into their relatives - they "sipped him", and literally. If anyone likes such bestiality - yes, please, then there is no need to talk about the geopolitical field and rush between the CSTO and NATO and not demand higher rent for the fact that they are being protected (as in Tajikistan). Divide the rivers yourself, do not call anyone to arbitrate, provide the peoples with work, and not with slogans and Kalash, in general, each owner of his own happiness, and the collective farm, as they used to say, is voluntary. I have the honor.
            1. bazilio
              bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 03
              +2
              But didn’t Ukraine think about NATO? Does Russia not cooperate with NATO and the United States on the transit of goods to Afghanistan? Or the Russian Federation is possible and the rest can not?
      2. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 35
        +8
        Quote: Brother Sarich
        Where do you see the growing role of Russia in the geopolitical field

        Yes, actually - everywhere !!
        1. Diogenes
          Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 14
          +11
          Quote: Russ -
          Yes, actually - everywhere !!

          The fact that Russia has not collapsed in recent years is already such an increase in itself! and then it’s a matter of gain.
          1. Crocus
            Crocus 24 July 2012 13: 00
            +10
            Russia is focusing! Shiyo is clear to everyone. Because such an amount of stink.
        2. cherrybuster
          cherrybuster 22 October 2017 13: 13
          0
          poke a finger
      3. Glen-99
        Glen-99 10 November 2017 11: 03
        0
        We don’t need any geopolitical fields, in Russia there are plenty of our uncultivated fields, so let the migrant workers come and work on everyone to get biometrics and a reputation dossier, it’s time to end charity on a geopolitical scale how much a wolf doesn’t feed, he still looks like a wolf. It is necessary to continue with renewed vigor what is already being done, including re-equipment and mega projects, when this is done, then we ourselves will be pulled under the “roof”.
  3. itr
    itr 23 July 2012 08: 36
    0
    Well, all the same, the author is mistaken that these countries existed, and before the communists there were buys, then these buys became communists, and now these buys are democrats.
    1. Delink
      Delink 23 July 2012 09: 04
      +7
      itr, you are wrong too. Type in the Internet "accession of Central Asia to Russia". You will find a lot of interesting things there.
      And Bay was never communists. Sincerely.
      1. Chilim
        Chilim 7 August 2014 11: 51
        0
        Dear historian. I don’t know what story you read about Central Asia, but I’ll tell you for sure that you clearly read the wrong story.
    2. vlbelugin
      vlbelugin 23 July 2012 09: 40
      +9
      itr
      Well, nifiga you yourself are a historian.
      Tell me on what pre-revolutionary map did you see these "states"?
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 05
        +4
        The Khiva Khanate and the Bukhara Emirate - are familiar with such names? There was still the Kokand Khanate until the 60s of the nineteenth century ...
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 23 July 2012 19: 16
          +5
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          There was still the Kokand Khanate until the 60s of the nineteenth century ...

          And there was still the Tamerlane empire, I don’t remember, until what century ....
          1. Diogenes
            Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 17
            +7
            We will not take measures, wait, some lousy tamerlanchik will lick out!
            1. Crocus
              Crocus 24 July 2012 12: 59
              +6
              Diogenes,
              What is there a tamerlanchik, Hilary cleaned up there!
          2. Chilim
            Chilim 7 August 2014 11: 53
            0
            If you don’t remember, then there’s no need to talk about it.
    3. Dmitriy69
      Dmitriy69 23 July 2012 10: 13
      +12
      Quote: itr
      Well, all the same, the author is mistaken; these countries existed,

      Before joining Russia, various feudal formations that had nothing to do with nation states existed in Central Asia.
      Quote: itr
      before the communists there were buys then these buys became communists

      No, these local Communists eventually degenerated into bais.
      1. matex
        matex 23 July 2012 10: 21
        0
        Quote: Dmitriy69
        having nothing to do with nation states.

        The question is, did the Russian Empire also have a national state (given how many nationalities lived there)? Let's not juggle. From the fact that we call the Hippopotamus the Hypopotamus, its essence does not change, and here the name is completely different people lived the same. The question of mono-ethnic states was not discussed here and cannot.
        1. Dmitriy69
          Dmitriy69 23 July 2012 10: 56
          +13
          Quote: matex
          The question is, did the Russian Empire also have a national state (given how many nationalities lived there)? Let's not juggle

          In fact, Russia has never been a nation-state; it is not such today. Russia is a supranational state.
          And in the previous commentary I stated the fact that the history of modern Central Asian states can be kept only from the post-revolutionary time, before that we can only talk about the history of territories.
          1. matex
            matex 23 July 2012 10: 59
            -5
            Quote: Dmitriy69
            I outlined the fact that the history of modern Central Asian states can only be traced from the post-revolutionary time

            Hmm ... Let’s then we will lead the history of modern Russia after the collapse of the USSR, logically considering your comment quoted by me. After all, before this concept of the Russian Federation there was no yes, and there was no such state on 19th century carriages. The Federation is far from an empire, nor is the emirate a republic of fact or not? wink
            1. mark021105
              mark021105 23 July 2012 14: 15
              +2
              RSFSR - Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic.
              As part of the USSR.
          2. Chilim
            Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 07
            0
            Dmitry, here you rightly said "And in the previous commentary, I outlined the fact that the history of modern Central Asian states can be conducted only from the post-revolutionary time, before that we can only talk about the history of the territories." But this thesis of yours is also applicable to modern Russia. Before and after. I hope you understand what I mean.
        2. itr
          itr 23 July 2012 11: 07
          +1
          Yes there was nothing. And Bukhara and other thousand-year-old cities were only on paper
          1. matex
            matex 23 July 2012 11: 11
            +2
            Quote: itr
            Yes there was nothing. And Bukhara and other thousand-year-old cities were only on paper

            Apparently, Herodotus the fool from badun wrote about Sogd, he did not read Bactria to Samsonov and others like him laughing
            1. Diogenes
              Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 20
              +9
              Quote: matex
              Apparently, and Herodotus

              Only about Herodotus here is not necessary! This guy so much crap vtyuhal world, still can not scrape off!
              1. matex
                matex 24 July 2012 11: 46
                0
                Quote: Diogenes
                Only about Herodotus here is not necessary! This guy so much crap vtyuhal world, still do not scrape off

                Well, you’ll be better aware of the barrel, if he wrote about Russia that the empire existed that way since the 5th century. BC he probably your brother would become a super duper authority laughing
                Read the sources and take a school history course, and then insert your five cents into this rotten topic.
          2. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 42
            +5
            And there never was a Great Silk Road!
            Another thing is what relation do the present inhabitants of these cities have to the inhabitants of those times ...
            1. matex
              matex 23 July 2012 11: 48
              +2
              Quote: Brother Sarich
              Another thing is what relation do the present inhabitants of these cities have to the inhabitants of those times ...

              No need to juggle, we directly read the ethnogenesis of the people of Middle Asia without blinkering ethnogenesis and we will find the same Sogdians, Massagets, Saks, Türks from the great Kaganate there and they are all the very ancestors of the living peoples, and even stop raising unclear topics .
              1. Diogenes
                Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 23
                +9
                matex,
                That's it! All this ethnic diversity today would not hurt to revive. The Central Asian republics made the Communists too large.
                1. matex
                  matex 24 July 2012 11: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: Diogenes
                  That's it! All this ethnic diversity today would not hurt to revive

                  What are you ... and how? You have learned to resurrect the dead or isolate certain types of DNA and derive individual ethnic groups from the existing one, or maybe you are the very same Creator? Do not write nonsense dear, but go to school, learn.
                  1. Crocus
                    Crocus 24 July 2012 13: 03
                    +8
                    Patriotism is wonderful, but it is very subject to rudeness ...
                    1. bazilio
                      bazilio 24 July 2012 17: 35
                      0
                      This principle works the same for everyone.
                      1. bazilio
                        bazilio 24 July 2012 19: 10
                        +1
                        judging by the minuses, the principle "Patriotism is great, but it is very prone to rudeness." does not work for everyone the same))))
              2. bazilio
                bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 09
                +1
                Let's not talk about ethnogenesis here, this is a separate topic, very voluminous
          3. bazilio
            bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 08
            +1
            And then, those who wrote these papers went to bury material evidence locally. Archaeologists do this all.
          4. Chilim
            Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 08
            0
            Just like the Russian Empire was only in books ... Think about what you are talking about.
          5. Duisenbay Bankankulov
            Duisenbay Bankankulov 12 August 2017 12: 51
            0
            itr you do not teach history in Soros. But who is Abu Ali Ibn Sina, Ulykbek, you did not know and probably will not know ....
      2. Bek
        Bek 23 July 2012 11: 27
        +4
        These feudal formations were called khanates, respectively, of the state they are.
      3. Chilim
        Chilim 7 August 2014 11: 59
        0
        Quote: Dmitriy69
        Quote: itr
        Well, all the same, the author is mistaken; these countries existed,

        Before joining Russia, various feudal formations that had nothing to do with nation states existed in Central Asia.
        Quote: itr
        before the communists there were buys then these buys became communists

        No, these local Communists eventually degenerated into bais.

        Remember how the territories of Central Asia were annexed. And what do you mean by the words "various feudal formations"?
    4. Bek
      Bek 23 July 2012 11: 24
      0
      Yes Dear friend, you are right only in one thing, that these states existed before the revolutions of 1917, including the Kazakh Khanate, which for centuries fought against the Dzungars and other conquerors. And only at the beginning of the 18th century, the Kazakh khan Abylay accepted Russian citizenship. I would have greeted the author of this provocative article from the beginning to study history and only then to spray with saliva.
      1. Diogenes
        Diogenes 24 July 2012 11: 27
        +10
        Quote: Bek
        , in the fact that these states existed before the revolutions of 1917, including the Kazakh Khanate, which for centuries fought against the Dzungars and other conquerors

        Here! Without Russia, continuous war and robbery reigned in the Central Asian lands.
        1. matex
          matex 24 July 2012 11: 52
          +1
          Quote: Diogenes
          Here! Without Russia, continuous war and robbery reigned in the Central Asian lands.

          Seriously? And the Empire didn’t fight at all, but sat quietly on the sidelines? Type a chronicle of the wars of the Russian Empire, at least for the 19th century in Google, you will learn a miracle that you fought even as you fought and even muddied the revolution and civil war, the consequences of which are still echoed in the fate of people.
        2. bazilio
          bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 16
          +1
          And then how Russia attached Turkestan to itself were all exclusively peaceful actions. And the famous battle painter Vereshchagin just fantasized the plots of his paintings, right?
      2. bazilio
        bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 11
        +2
        I agree about the article and historical accuracy
  4. Igarr
    Igarr 23 July 2012 09: 00
    +4
    Almost a year ago ...
    For a long time argued on this subject with a respected elder.
    I said - artificial formations .. these states. Not a nation, not a territory — namely the USSR.
    There was Turkestan governorship in the 19 century.
    Let Turkestan democracy become.
    ...
    As soon as they divide ... the padishahs ... "acquired by overwork."
    To the people - stability would be, work, salary.
    And ... games ... skorobogatikov - to one place.
    1. Shuhrat turani
      Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 11: 22
      -7
      from which cabbage are artificial states? On the territory of Transoxians, states have existed since ancient times. It’s just that the local government system is not like the western model you love, and that’s all ... Democratic utopia is not for Asia ... Asia loves the leaders of the people, strong leaders ... Here has its own tradition of power .... And do not climb here with with their patterns ...
      Modern friction in Middle Asia is the result of the redistribution of territories in favor of small peoples - Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Turkmens, Tajiks learned by the Communists and the tsarist occupation regime before the Communists. The borders are artificial. If everything is returned to normal, then everything around will become more calm. You will be better when the Uzbeks leave Russia. this will become possible only after the Uzbek people return the original territories that are now in the temporary possession of foreigners.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 23 July 2012 11: 28
        +8
        Shuhrat ...
        ".. how the Uzbek people will return the original territories .."
        From this place you can .. more in detail?
        Uzbeks - the name of the people? from the khan of Uzbek?
        Where did he rule?
        ...
        "Asia is for Asians" - the crown slogan of the Japanese during the second world threshing.
        1. Shuhrat turani
          Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 13: 29
          -6
          Quote: Igarr
          From this place you can .. in more detail? Uzbeks - the name of the people? from khan Uzbek? Where did he rule?


          Turkic ethnic systems often change their name, taking the name of the most influential part of the system. Uzbeks are descendants of ancient peoples who lived in the territory of the Middle East. Uzbeks is the last name of the ethnic system. It is important to remember that the power traditions formed in Khorezm, Sogd, Bactria, etc. of the ancient states are preserved for many centuries. Modern Uzbekistan is the spiritual successor of these ancient states.
          Yes, power is based on the despotic, absolute power of the autocrat, but this is in the traditions of the region. A weak leader will never hold on to power.
          The people of Transoxiana have always dominated the territories of Turkestan (with the exception of the Mongol invasion, and the period of the strengthening of Iran.

          Asia for Asians ... Why not?
          1. mars6791
            mars6791 24 July 2012 00: 31
            +1
            Unlike Russia and Afghanistan, Uzbeks were conquered, this is the whole difference.
            1. Eugene
              Eugene 24 July 2012 01: 29
              +1
              Afghanistan has been conquered more than once. Do not believe in the tales of the war in Afghanistan.
            2. Chilim
              Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 19
              0
              Genghis Khan and Genghis Khan kept Russia in check and collected tribute for 300 years, Afghanistan was also conquered by Genghis Khan, but they did not spend long time in Afghanistan, unlike Russia. Learn the story dear.
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 40
        +8
        Still to find that great Uzbek people!
        1. Shuhrat turani
          Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 13: 34
          -5
          .
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          Still to find that great Uzbek people!



          The era of shocks will stir people, optimize and strengthen the state ...
          Or he’ll ruin him ... But I’m afraid there are no alternatives ... On that patch of territory that the people stayed, they still won’t survive ... The expansion of living space is the only alternative, since integration processes in the region are at an impasse
          1. skullcap
            skullcap 23 July 2012 16: 13
            +5
            Shuhrat Turani Today, 13: 34
            Expanding living space is the only alternative
            ---------------------------------------------------------------
            Something vaguely recalls that once in the 30 years of the last century they already talked about living space.
            It was only in Germany.
            And you have just claimed that you are against European patterns ...
            1. Shuhrat turani
              Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 19: 02
              -4
              Quote: kosopuz
              And you have just claimed that you are against European patterns ...


              The thesaurus is similar ... but the basis of the concept is different ...
              1. bazilio
                bazilio 24 July 2012 18: 19
                0
                No, this is not the case. It really smacks of fascism
      3. Zhaman-Urus
        Zhaman-Urus 23 July 2012 13: 12
        0
        "In favor of small peoples" "Traditional borders" "Primordial territories" "Foreigners" -Somehow smacks of fascism. To fight from all over the Wed. Asia will have enough strength and resources, "O great Raja?"
      4. darkman70
        darkman70 23 July 2012 18: 19
        +2
        Transoxyans

        And what is this? smile
        1. Shuhrat turani
          Shuhrat turani 23 July 2012 19: 00
          -2
          Quote: darkman70
          Transoxyans

          And what is this? smile


          interfluve of the Syr Darya and Amu Darya.
      5. mars6791
        mars6791 24 July 2012 00: 28
        0
        Where will the Uzbeks leave Russia, and where are your territories? Uzbekistan and other republics of the USSR. circled around Russia, and now they are "sixes", other owners, I think, will soon grow up young people who will wipe our states off the face of the earth
        1. Chilim
          Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 24
          0
          Of course they were spinning, and in the year of the Second World War they were spinning, asking for refugees from the territories occupied by the Nazis.
    2. Chilim
      Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 15
      0
      Igarr, the fact of the matter is that in Central Asia work has always been
  5. Khatabych
    Khatabych 23 July 2012 09: 04
    +6
    For the United States, Asia is a tidbit, and China is close to Russia, and I think it’s easy to manipulate these states, so the author did not in vain emphasize the possible start of a military threat. But there is one thing BUT China and Russia also have a great influence in this region, therefore they will shake the region gradually, but for now all the attention in the Middle East on this so far there is time for Russia and China needs to strengthen its influence on the region without pressure.
    1. Robinson
      Robinson 23 July 2012 17: 33
      +2
      That's right, you can’t pull in this business.
      1. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 37
        +2
        Quote: Khatabych
        For the USA, Asia is a tidbit, and China is close and Russia,

        Quote: Robinson
        true, you can’t pull in this business.

        It’s not just a tidbit - it’s a fatty slime.
        If his pro .....- khan comes to us one way or another.
        1. Argonaut
          Argonaut 24 July 2012 18: 41
          0
          That's for sure. Healthy expansion or farsighted politics is indispensable.
  6. valokordin
    valokordin 23 July 2012 09: 07
    +9
    And they say Stalin was wrong, only by force and exactingness, the new religion could keep the countries from self-destruction, and now again the financial bigwigs are doing the same thing as before.
    1. vlbelugin
      vlbelugin 23 July 2012 09: 42
      +9
      You know where you will not rush, everywhere it turns out that Stalin is RIGHT.
    2. Russian-
      Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 38
      +2
      Quote: valokordin
      only by force and exactingness, a new religion could keep countries from self-destruction

      Now it is also relevant. And it was at all times. And will be.
  7. matex
    matex 23 July 2012 09: 19
    +14
    Interestingly, what does the author want to say by calling the states artificial? Or, for the author, the history of Middle Asia begins in the 19th century when it was the conquest of Middle Asia and joining the Russian Empire? The author writes nonsense and, moreover, provocative nonsense, with this he simply hammers a wedge in relations with neighboring states. Nonsense sits on nonsense in this article.
    ps
    Dear Saytites, be objective in their judgments, and before writing about the bays, the near mind and the hordes of illiterate migrant workers who it is time to send and close the borders, and who sat Belovezhie and ruined the country on a drunken head, I think it’s definitely not bais and illegal migrants. With respect to all sane on this site.
    1. sasha.28blaga
      sasha.28blaga 23 July 2012 09: 36
      +2
      I wrote everything right
    2. vlbelugin
      vlbelugin 23 July 2012 09: 48
      +7
      Do not be offended. We are not talking about people with their centuries-old traditions and culture. We are talking about territorial divisions. You will not deny that before joining Russia these states were not. There were various khanates, but there were no states in the sense and in the territorial framework that exists now.
      After all, if we take Kazakhstan as an example, then it was joined by the Russian, industrial territories of the Southern Urals. And now the original Russian lands, with the Russian population, suddenly turned out to be the territory of another state.
      1. matex
        matex 23 July 2012 10: 05
        +3
        And what is the Khanate or the emirate is not a state? Or is it a chimera? The sources of statehood in Middle Asia have deep roots (we read and look for Sogd, Bactria, etc.) and write that there was no and no, and all that is artificial is stupidity beyond measure or provocation. Today's state. Middle Asia is just the next round of transformation of the previous states. It is just necessary to look at things objectively and anonymously, and not to write like: there was no Uzbekistan in 1867, it means today it is a chimera state. Look deeper and wider.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        After all, if we take Kazakhstan as an example, then it was joined by the Russian, industrial territories of the Southern Urals. And now the original Russian lands, with the Russian population, suddenly turned out to be the territory of another state.

        To write that these Chimera states is not correct, but I agree a lot about the national-territorial demarcation of the 20s, it was clumsy (the question is again not about the barges but the leadership of the USSR) not only Russia but other states of Central Asia suffered from it.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        After all, if we take Kazakhstan as an example, then it was joined by the Russian, industrial territories of the Southern Urals. And now the original Russian lands, with the Russian population, suddenly turned out to be the territory of another state.

        To write that these Chimera states is not correct, but I agree a lot about the national-territorial demarcation of the 20s, it was clumsy (the question is again not about the barges but the leadership of the USSR) not only Russia but other states of Central Asia suffered from it.
        1. Pushkar
          Pushkar 23 July 2012 10: 47
          +5
          Quote: matex
          The sources of statehood in Middle Asia have deep roots (we read and look for Sogd, Bactria, etc.) and write that there was no and no, and all that is artificial is stupidity beyond measure or provocation
          Sorry, but the same Uzbekistan as it was called before - Sogd or Bactria? What were the names of the states that existed within the same borders and with the same population as the current Central Asian states? There were none. And the fact that state entities existed in this territory, so they were everywhere until today’s states.
          1. matex
            matex 23 July 2012 11: 09
            +1
            Quote: Pushkar
            Sorry, but the same Uzbekistan as it was called before - Sogd or Bactria?

            And the same Russia as it was called before? Muscovy? maybe Smolensk principality or Kievan Rus in general? So what about horror: the Russian Federation did not exist before, it appeared after the collapse of the USSR ... Well, how does it turn out? Before writing anything, read a few sources.
            1. Pushkar
              Pushkar 23 July 2012 11: 20
              -2
              Quote: matex
              And the same Russia as it was called before?
              The Russian Empire. More than a thousand years old Russian Empire. Continuously.
              1. matex
                matex 23 July 2012 11: 29
                +3
                Quote: Pushkar
                The Russian Empire. More than a thousand years old Russian Empire. Continuously.

                Ahem ... No comments, only advice, open the map that way in the period from 9 to 13 century A.D. and understand that everything is not quite as you imagine. smile
                1. Nikopol
                  Nikopol 23 July 2012 19: 36
                  0
                  What to be offended by a person. Today it is not fashionable to read history books, and even more so - on the history of your country. I would not be surprised if I wrote that Russia has been an empire for centuries.
              2. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 39
                +1
                The title of emperor was taken by Peter Alekseevich - not so long ago it was ...
              3. de_monSher
                de_monSher 23 July 2012 21: 30
                +6
                Wuhu ... how strange it turns out ... if you take it back a thousand years, then this era also includes the era of specific principalities, without central imperial power ... the Ryazan principality, Suzdal, Mr. Veliky Novgorod, or the same Tmutarkan - you you have imprudence, I would say - arrogance, to assert that these entities had a common imperial basis (I don’t speak national identity - yes, the inhabitants of these entities considered themselves Russian) ... And at the same time, you say that Khiva, Bukhara and Kokand - didn’t have such an identity (Transoxyan) ... you yourself, it doesn’t seem ridiculous, huh?

                Respected Pushkar . Instead of knowing history, you have a gaping hole = like that of the author of the article, by the way = ... And here I completely agree with matexth. Even taking into account that He, perhaps, stands on the positions of the Uzbek self-identity - "Asia for Asians", but I still, on the positions of the Imperial thinking of the type - the USSR. You, dear Pushkar, there is not a single gram of Imperial identity - you are the product of a modern round of history - narrow-national thinking, covered by pseudo-imperial rhetoric. Alas and ah - this is so ...
                1. matex
                  matex 24 July 2012 12: 00
                  +1
                  Quote: de_monSher
                  Even considering that He, perhaps, stands on the positions of Uzbek self-identity - "Asia for Asians"

                  Good day. Not at all in the position of "Asia for Asians" our doors are always open for friends and allies, we stand up for integration, but at the same time not wanting to lose self-identification as an integral people with its own history, which, as we know, is continuously connected with our neighbors. And most importantly, I would like that our neighbors understood this and did not write nonsense like "where are you going, brothers, you are our smaller ones, because your story began only after our intervention."
              4. de_monSher
                de_monSher 23 July 2012 21: 53
                -1
                And ... by the way - Transoxiana, she is Miverannahr, or in some sources - the Northern Mesopotamia (as opposed to the Southern Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilization - the Euphrates and the Tigris), was also called at one time - "Country of cities". And the continuity of generations, the heritage of knowledge and culture - here, too, can be traced for more than one millennium.

                Another thing is that in the 20s of the last century, the powerful Slavic-Turkic Union was formed - which "looked" both to Europe and Asia. And it is no secret that the Muslim countries of the East were guided by the example of the Muslim Soviet Republics of the former USSR, as a standard of development. And the Ideas of Soviet Pan-Slavism and Pan-Turkism and Pan-Islamism developed quite dynamically up to a certain point. So ... so ... = thoughtful = ... in general, we'll have a look. I personally, for what would bring back many interesting moments of those ideas.
              5. Chilim
                Chilim 7 August 2014 12: 30
                0
                A thousand-plus years? Do not make people laugh.
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 09
        +1
        Kazakhstan also suits me a little - but did the Kazakhs themselves attach the Russian regions to themselves? Just remember when the Kazakh SSR was formed and what it was before! And who are the Kazakhs in all together, along with the Russians, kicked out of the Union? When did independent Kazakhstan appear? And to whom are you complaining?
      3. Akishbekov
        Akishbekov 23 July 2012 10: 12
        -8
        vlbelugin you probably did not know that Orenburg and Omsk (for example) is the territory of the Kazakh Khanate ?! Previously, they were called Orynbor and Ombi (then they were renamed in the Russian way) Astrakhn and all the territories adjacent to it were also the property of a younger zhuz (you probably did not know about it) Look at the territory of Kievan Rus, this is what I can say that this is your territory and the rest is big question!
        I myself read the history of Russia as I thought it was the most interesting (which is the way), so I have great respect for your story!
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 29
          +8
          It wasn’t - it’s Kazakh inventions! The Kazakhs never had a normal state with borders, khans were self-proclaimed, and there was no state as such ...
          1. matex
            matex 23 July 2012 10: 36
            +1
            Quote: Brother Sarich
            It wasn’t - it’s Kazakh inventions! The Kazakhs never had a normal state with borders, khans were self-proclaimed, and there was no state as such ...

            I do not agree at the root. The form of statehood suggests the concept of a nomadic state is full of examples of this (the State of Masagets and Saks in the Aral Sea region, Scythians of the Black Sea region, etc.) and the Kazakhs had their own form of nomadic statehood with elements of settledness. And present-day Kazakhstan (albeit clumsily defined borders in the 20s) is a continuation of the existence of Kazakh statehood. Well, as for the northern territories, this is already a controversial and delicate issue, and the buy-outs from communism in the 20s did not spoil it with one org conclusion.
        2. aquatic
          aquatic 23 July 2012 13: 45
          +5
          Orenburg was founded by the Russians, first where Orsk is now to be found - a city on Ori, then moved to a more convenient place where it is now, and no matter how they call it in the "Kazakh way", this is a primordially Russian city, I don't know from what books you the story was read. Before the creation of Orenburg there was no Orynbor in nature, read Rychkov, Kirillov will not have any questions, and about statehood in this region it is also written in great detail, read surprise, a lot has been written there both about life and about living together with animals in the same yurt and about eating ...
          When do not say something about which you do not know.

          PS I also read about Omsk now, Omsk was founded as a fortress by Cossacks (not to be confused by Kazakhs).

          Based on this, the previous post is an excellent example of rewriting history in a neighboring state) and powdering the brains of the population) if a person is sure of what he is writing about, well, or just a deliberate lie)
          1. Akishbekov
            Akishbekov 23 July 2012 13: 49
            -5
            We do not tell you that the Chinese founded Orenburg, we are talking about the land on which the city is based! If I founded a city near Moscow and said we founded a city so that it was originally Kazakh land and the fact that Russians lived there for centuries on my drum (you mean something like that) Think before you write or read who built fortresses and cities on whose territory !
            1. Akishbekov
              Akishbekov 23 July 2012 13: 53
              -11
              From the article "Orenburg - the lost Kazakh capital"
              "This is how many Kazakh lands remain in Russia: Orenburg, Astrakhan, Omsk, Saratov, Tomsk, all these cities are located in the primordial Kazakh territories. Or Siberia is also the land of our ancestors. They shed their blood for it in battles. these lands lie a considerable part of our glorious history, on our former northern outskirts, which have now become the southern borders of Russia. Kurmangazy worked here, the leaders of Alash-Orda united here, here the first printed works in the Kazakh language were published. "
              1. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 00
                +4
                Yes, the Kazakhs and the letter did not have their own, not like printed books ...
                1. Akishbekov
                  Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 05
                  -6
                  Yes, you're right, we only lived in the clouds (since the nomads did not have land in your words))) And only a MIRACLE helped the Kazakhs to keep such vast territories! So how did the barbarians succeed? Buzzard, tell me!
                  1. Brother Sarych
                    Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 18
                    0
                    Hold on? Who told you what you held back? In my opinion, they just didn’t hold it!
                    1. viktorrymar
                      viktorrymar 24 July 2012 12: 39
                      0
                      And the Uzbeks kept))) they have a very large territory)))))
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 21: 57
                  -1
                  Before the Cyrillic alphabet (which the Russians took over from the Bulgarians), the Kazakhs used the Latin alphabet, and before that, Arabic letters (i.e. they wrote in Kazakh, but in Arabic letters). In ancient times, the ancient Turkic runic script was used (the so-called Orkhon-Yenisei script), the Sogdian script, Chagatai was used.

                  World-renowned scientists Central Asia and Kazakhstan in the Middle Ages before the Renaissance gave more than all of Russia and Europe at that time. Turkic scholars wrote their books most often in Arabic, less often in Farsi. Diplomatic messages and "everyday" notes were written in Turkic. The Arabic language was considered the language of science among Central Asians, just as Europeans, until recently, preferred to write their treatises in Latin, rather than in Italian or German.

                  The composition of the Kazakh nation has been more or less homogeneous for many centuries, another thing is that ethnonyms and the name of the state have changed. Kipchaks, Naimans, Argyns and others in the time of Genghis Khan were called hordes, Mongols. At the time of Abulkhair they were "nomadic Uzbeks", then they began to be called from the 15th century "Cossack". There was the Turkic Khanate, then other khanates, kaganates, then from the 13th century Ulug Ulus (what the Russians call the empire of Genghis Khan), then the Kazakh Khanate, then became part of the Russian Empire and were turned into separate general governorships, then became autonomous within the RSFSR, then they received the status of a union republic, since 1991 - the Republic of Kazakhstan.

                  My ancestors repeatedly changed their self-name, which among Eurasian Asians primarily means belonging to a particular sovereign and, accordingly, the country (but the generic name of the nomads - Kipchak, Argyn, Naiman, etc. - has been preserved for centuries from ancient times to this day).
                  For the most part, Kazakhs are proud of their belonging to the Soviet Union (especially in wartime) and their Kazakh khanate (diplomats of Russian tsars and tsaris would be very surprised if they knew that, according to the author of the article, they had been communicating with an artificial non-existent state for centuries smile ), and now they are not embarrassed to be proud that it was their immediate ancestors who created the Empire of Genghisides and controlled it, and not the Kazan Bulgars or Khalkha from Inner Mongolia.
                  Kazakhs and other main Turkic peoples have been established as state administrators long ago. Yes, and now the Kazakhs can hardly give anyone a reason to doubt their ability to govern the state. You can find fault with everything that happens in our country, but only those who know about the region can only call our country "artificial" from scraps of table conversations with drunken ignoramuses or offended losers.

                  ZY He presented a picture: a Russian prince is going to the Horde to tell the khan in the TURKISH language that the "nomads" are not capable of creating states and managing them ... Or you can imagine the Russian queen's ambassador, who tells the Kazakh khan, who is at war with the Dzungars, that he fights on primordially Russian lands ... If only the reigning Mongolian Galdan-tserens and Kazakh taukels, exhausted by the age-old war, would have their jaws dropped to the ground ...
            2. aquatic
              aquatic 23 July 2012 14: 21
              +7
              Do not distort, aside, he immediately left, who said about Orenburg which was previously called in Kazakh and then it was renamed into Russian))) is it a lie? I also wrote about the indigenous population, and no one is hiding it then or now, but it’s silly to argue on the territory now) at least we’ll get to the Neanderthals, but here’s what I tell you) I live in Orsk and this is my hometown) Russia), and who thinks that the girlfriend will instantly explain who where what) we respect people regardless of nationality, for example, a monument to Derbisaly Berkimbayev was erected, do you know who this is?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 22: 30
                -2
                Orenburg region is historically the land of Kazakhs, Tatars and Bashkirs. The Russians came there only a couple of centuries ago. And they were building there not "cities" in the usual sense now, but MILITARY BASES, forts / fortresses. And originally from the Russians lived there not peace-loving peasants, but exclusively military people and Cossacks sent from other lands to hold the occupied territory.
                By the way, about Orenburg and the well-known historical fact of the double birth of this city - the Russians who arrived, having conceived to build a fortress on these lands, ASKED THE LOCAL KAZAKHS where the best place for construction is, and where the Zhaik River does not sink (later renamed into the Bashkir word "Ural ") land in the spring. The Kazakhs, who opposed the Russian fortresses on their land, poked into the most uncomfortable place where the first Orenburg was founded, your current hometown of Orsk. Moreover, even the Kazakhs fooled not only the newcomers, but also the "father of Russian geography" Ivan Kirillov (by the way, that still inveterate chauvinist), who was specifically looking for a suitable place for the future Orenburg fortress.
                The exact same story happened with Akmola / Tselinograd / Astana, when the Russians had already delved into the Steppe - the Kazakhs again advised a dying place, flooded by the Yesil River (Ishim in Russian transcription).
                In order to avoid silly laughs in advance about why the Russians asked the nomads about the sites for the construction of fortresses, let me remind you that Kazakhs, like other Turkic and Mongolian peoples, are strictly speaking semi-nomadic. There are 4 places for permanent residence for centuries, which change during the seasons. In winter, all nomads generally live in winter huts, incl. and in stone / adobe settlements. So the Russian soldiers reasonably consulted with the nomads about where to build fortifications. Asians were LOCAL, and Russians were newcomers. And all sorts of allusions to the "primordially Russian lands" of any pro-Russian-minded Kazakh outraged utterly. The Kazakhs do not call Moscow "the primordially Kazakh land", only because our hordes once stood there. There are no graves of our ancestors, but there are no ancient Russian graves in the Orenburg region, Astrakhan, Tyumen and other "primordially Russian" lands. All Tengrian burial mounds / Muslim mazars of nomads.
                The Kazakhs do not argue with the fact that this is the territory of the Russian Federation, and have no idea of ​​redrawing the maps of our states, but they will not tolerate any nonsense that this is supposedly "primordial Russia" in the style of Zhirinovsky. Kazakh land, territory - Russian Federation.

                Although in Russia sometimes Kaliningrad is a native land, some people think that it’s really surprising.
          2. Akishbekov
            Akishbekov 23 July 2012 13: 58
            -10
            You would first study geography, then open the political map of the Middle Ages and look at what territory Orenburg was built, and then superficially read somewhere and write without owning the material!
            1. aquatic
              aquatic 23 July 2012 14: 24
              +7
              links to the studio on the political maps of the middle ages of our region)) I’ll say right away I won’t pass the topic because I am fond of MD search for the history of my land I know a lot) where who lived when) and with my own eyes I saw the remains of where someone lived and how
              not a single card of the Kazakh composer) until now did not fall into hands) show I will be glad)
              1. Akishbekov
                Akishbekov 23 July 2012 14: 28
                -6
                Well, if you are so stubborn, tell me when they built Orenburg and who lived before on those lands? I hope you do not become slippery to answer the local historian you are ours)))
                1. aquatic
                  aquatic 23 July 2012 14: 51
                  +3
                  not stubborn))) you just don’t need to juggle the cunning and dodge))
                  if really interesting here is the link
                  http://kraeved.opck.org/biblioteka/pervoistochniki/index.php#1
                  Rychkov is the most detailed of the earliest descriptions of our region) about the indigenous population there is also described in detail and who founded what when, I can cite a selection of literature on this topic, and with all due respect to the Kazakh people) nothing like that in that amount of that period or before the Kazakh there are simply no authors, it’s amazing why they didn’t know how to write or didn’t want to describe) I’m digging myself) Kazakh parking at that time I assure you people lived very hard and badly))) you can’t even imagine how
                  1. Akishbekov
                    Akishbekov 23 July 2012 14: 57
                    -5
                    Yes, there’s nothing to argue about)) This is how the Russians will ask Alaska from the Amers, and you yourself gave them away) So Orynbor after transferring the capital of the Kazakh SSR from Orynbor to Kyzyl Orda and then Alma Ata silently transferred to the RSFSR!
                    1. aquatic
                      aquatic 23 July 2012 15: 18
                      +7
                      hmm by the way, I read about Orenbor right now ... but the problem then turns out to be much deeper.

                      "Orynbor, the Turkic pronunciation of the Russian name Orenburg. Another thing is where the word Oren itself came from, I'm not talking about Burg, it is clear where it came from (from the German fortress). The word Oren comes from the name of the city of Orsk, which is located on the Or river. Or Kazakh the word "ravine" and the name of the river! "
                      the capital of the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was only 5 years old ... why we say transferred to the RSFSR) but we do not say that 5 years earlier the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was transferred ...

                      Orenbor is a word that appears solely on Kazakh sites ... people damn it, take a head to what you read, well, when suddenly Orenburg has become a primordially Kazakh city, damn it please show me the sources where you read it I want to be blacklisted because of the juggling of history.
                      1. Akishbekov
                        Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 27
                        -4
                        Oh, Kirghiz (if you read) in those days called Kazakhs too! It’s good that you have new concepts that in the south of Russia there are settlements with Turkic roots)
                        aquatic don't be so nervous) take it easy! Yes, sometimes the worldview collapses and you do not want to accept that Orenburg is built in the Kazakh territories! But such is the truth! You are a true patriot of your city, there would be more such countries, and then the youth will completely degrade (
                      2. Brother Sarych
                        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 32
                        0
                        Actually, there should be a border between Uzbekistan and Russia - there is no place for Kazakhstan on this globe ...
                      3. aquatic
                        aquatic 23 July 2012 16: 01
                        +6
                        )))again))) Orynbor Turkic pronunciation of the Russian name Orenburg where did you see the Turkic roots interesting?))) I'm not nervous, I'm already starting to laugh quietly))) be critical of what you read and hear, approach from the point of view of science and logic and your worldview will expand it will not collapse)
                        Once again I’m talking about the indigenous population, the links provided are also written in detail and for that matter)) for example, the Bashkirs can bet you specifically)) because at that time the indigenous Bashkir population in the territory of the Orenburg region exceeded the Kyrgyz-Kaisak (Kazakh), the initial stage of chauvinism detective ....
                      4. viktorrymar
                        viktorrymar 24 July 2012 12: 45
                        +1
                        10 (21) October 1731, a significant part of the meeting of Kazakh elders, headed by Abulkhair Khan, spoke in favor of adopting an act on the voluntary accession of the Youngest Zhuz of Kazakhs to Russia. In 1734, Abulkhair Khan sent with the Russian diplomat A.I. Tevkelev to the court of Empress Anna Ioannovna, the embassy, ​​headed by her son Erali, who, on behalf of his father, was obliged to protect the safety of the Russian borders adjacent to the lands of his horde, to protect Russian merchant caravans during their passage through the Kyrgyz steppes, give, like the Bashkirs and Kalmyks, in case of need, an auxiliary army and pay yasak with animal skins. As a reward for this, Abulkhair Khan asked to confirm the Khan’s throne succession for eternal times and build a city with a fortress on the Ory River, where he could find refuge in case of danger. [7]
                        Thus, on 31 of August 1735, the Orenburg fortress was laid on the site of the present city of Orsk at the mouth of the Ory River at the confluence of the Ural River. However, in the 1739 year, Orenburg was moved lower to a new place - on Red Mountain, retaining its former name. The old city was called the Orsk fortress. 19 (30) On April 1743, Orenburg was laid for the third time by I.I. Neplyuev on the site of the former Berdyansk fortress, in 70 versts from the Krasnogorsk tract. The city, built on Red Mountain, was called the Krasnogorsk Fortress (see the Complete Collection of Laws of the Russian Empire, vol. IX, No. 6571, 6576, 6584).
                        Since Orenburg was originally based on the Ory River, it got its name Orenburg - a city on Ori. About this writes in detail Rychkov Peter Ivanovich in his book "Topography of the Orenburg."
                        The initial place for the city at the confluence of the Or and Yaik rivers was chosen during the expedition of the initiator of the development of the region I.K. Kirillov. After the death of I.K. Kirillov, V.N. Tatishchev was appointed the head of the Orenburg expedition. It seemed to him that the place was too uncomfortable, moreover, it was flooded with spring floods. In the 1739 year, preparations began for the construction of the city downstream of the Yaik at a place called Krasnaya Gorka and on 6 on August 1741 of the year it was laid. However, the construction of the city did not begin. The new head of the commission was appointed I.I. Neplyuyev, who in the summer of 1742 chose a new place, now it is the historical center of the city. Orenburg was moved to its current position in the 1743 year. In connection with this story of foundation, Orenburg is called three times conceived and once born. Wikipedia))) And the land is Kazakh)))
                      5. aquatic
                        aquatic 24 July 2012 13: 43
                        +3
                        Brother Sarych hints to you about where the Kazakh Khanate came from) separation from Uzbekistan) so if you dig the Uzbek land earlier))) but I already said it was stupid to get to the Neanderthals)
                      6. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 22: 46
                        -2
                        You absolutely don't understand and don't understand Asian history. The "Uzbeks", Abulhayira, from whom the "Kazakhs" separated, have nothing to do with modern Uzbeks. Those "Uzbeks" were nomadic Turks and were no different from the breakaway Kazakhs of the sultans Janibek and Kerey. And those who are now called "Uzbek" were then called "Sarts" - the descendants of the Iranian-speaking inhabitants of Central Asia, coupled with the mestizo Tajik-Turkic sedentary population. And until the Soviet regime, no one would have called a Tajik-speaking seller of melons in a colorful dressing gown with a thick beard - "Uzbek", but only "Sart".
                        And the Soviet government, dividing the administrative boundaries of the former Central Asian khanates, actually created a new nation on the basis of the old Turkic name "Uzbek" - merged into one real Uzbeks - nomadic Turks of different clans (the Sarts themselves often called them simply "Kipchak"), sedentary Sarts and sedentary Tajiks. Tashkent, one of the key cities in the history of the Kazakh Khanate, was transferred to the new republic, despite the fact that there were almost no Sarts there, and only Kazakhs lived (see the tsarist population censuses). Nowadays the descendants of the nomads, though visually different from the descendants of the Sarts, are formally considered one people, although they call themselves a separate genus "Kurama".
                        So do not rush to laugh at "Kazakhs descended from Uzbeks". Americans of the 21st century and Americans in the time of Cortez are different peoples. The Uzbeks of the Middle Ages and the 21st century are also not the same thing.
                      7. aquatic
                        aquatic 24 July 2012 14: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: viktorrymar
                        Orenburg was moved to its current location in 1743. In connection with this story of foundation, Orenburg is called three times conceived and once born. Wikipedia))) And the land is Kazakh)))

                        oh how do you know how to tear out words from the context, didn’t read them further? or read yes did not write here, read on:
                        "It was built as a fortress city, as a stronghold of the lines of fortresses along Yaik, Samara and Sakmara, guarding the south-eastern border of Russia... At the same time, the city was supposed to serve as a center of economic and economic communication with the peoples of the East, which, first of all, implied trade "
                        "Orenburg arose as a warrior city that guarded the southeastern borders of the Russian Empire. Soon it became a merchant city and the largest intermediary between Russia and Central Asia. After some time, Orenburg becomes the center of a very large province, stretching from the Volga to Siberia, from the Kama to The city-warrior, merchant, official was also the most important strategic center, so the insurgent Pugachevites tried to seize it. "

                        I can still give a lot of links so that) below somewhere the map was laid out for the 16-18th centuries, look carefully Orenburg is a border outpost.
                        Orenburg was NEVER a territory owned by any Kazakh state, the indigenous population yes ... along with many others, by the way, but the territory owned by the state was NEVER)
                        The first designation of the borders between Russia and Zhuz was, as you rightly noted, carried out in 1734 and it passed in the place of Orenburg along the Ural River
                        , so you don’t need to write any nonsense that is completely unsupported by any facts and sources.
                    2. Brother Sarych
                      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 30
                      -2
                      KazSSR was founded in what year? Before that there was nothing. except autonomy ...
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 24 July 2012 14: 03
                        +3
                        You, somehow very "evil" speak about the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan. You don't seem to be an Uzbek, but a Russian from Uzbekistan? It is for me, as an Uzbek, to talk about the Kazakhs in such a way "evil", by virtue of long historical "traditions", damn it = and they will answer me with words about the damned Sarts. And "showdowns" will begin, as between Ukrainians and Russians ... *))) = ... *) But it would be wrong. The ethnogenesis of peoples is very confusing. On the one hand, of course, I could argue for a long time about the fact that in the Steppe, there was one city of Turkestan (before the process of Kazakhstan's integration into the Russian Empire began), and even that was more focused on Kokand. Could talk about the genesis of the word, Kazakh. But ... do I need it? Why are you doing that? *)
                      2. Brother Sarych
                        Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 14: 38
                        0
                        That's right, I am Russian, but Kazakhs sometimes annoy me very much with their existence! It is clear that people are different, and this does not depend on nationality at all, but it is to the Kazakhs that I have huge claims, which have never been to either Uzbeks, nicknames Tajiks, nor Turkmens, nor Kyrgyz, nor Karakalpaks — no one, except for Kazakhs, it does not stuff into the great friends of the Russian people! Relations are open to varying degrees - yes, neighbors, yes, we live nearby, and most likely we will continue to live nearby, and EVERYTHING! But the Kazakhs directly demand that they confess their love to them, how tolerant they are, what Europeanized they are, what kind of people they are!
                        But in fact, parasites and loafers - excuse me! Ready to sit only in akimats and striped sticks on the roads to sell! You can still trade in mineral resources, sit in banks, but provide transit drugs - after all, there are few Kazakhs, there are enough grain places
                        There are few angels here, in our area, for the most part we knock hooves and horns, but do we not require love? In my opinion, this is more honest ...
                2. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 30
                  -1
                  Yes, no one lived there, that's all - there was an empty place! Therefore, they could not immediately guess where to build the city - here they came from the third place ...
            2. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 01
              +1
              Where did the Kazakhs come from?
              1. tan0472
                tan0472 23 July 2012 15: 37
                +2
                Kazakhs do not know where the word Kazakh came from. What from the word Cossack - their jaw will not turn.
                1. Russian-
                  Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: tan0472
                  What from the word Cossack - their jaw will not turn

                  That's right.
                2. romb
                  romb 24 July 2012 11: 15
                  +1
                  Cossack, Turkic term meaning - free, free.
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher 24 July 2012 23: 19
                    -4
                    Another meaning of the word Cossack is "an outcast, a renegade" ... = shrugged his shoulders = ... Let's get a complete picture, if we started to delve into the philological and semantic intricacies of past eras ...
        3. foxhaund31
          foxhaund31 23 July 2012 15: 40
          0
          Akishbekov, actually Omsk is an abbreviation: A Separate Place of Exile Convict. Ombi-Kazakh pronunciation, Ishim-Yesil, Irtysh-Ertis, Ust-Kamenogorsk-Oskemen, Semipalatinsk-Semey
          . .About Orenburg I will not argue, nor when I was not interested.
          1. Akishbekov
            Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 47
            -4
            http://www.adji.ru/ch00_05.html почитай на досуге)))
            1. aquatic
              aquatic 23 July 2012 16: 52
              +5
              thanks for the link) the literature of this author is included in the black list) fantasies are amazing) Kipchak Fomenko)
            2. foxhaund31
              foxhaund31 23 July 2012 19: 16
              +1
              Akishbekov, here is the link, arguments, facts, methodology, flight of thought. Daaaaaa ...... I'm on the shoulder blades.
            3. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 22
              -1
              It is no wonder that after reading this, the brains of the Kazakhs become on one side!
          2. aquatic
            aquatic 23 July 2012 16: 30
            +2
            Yes, this is not a legend)
            in Orsk, too, there is the same one) ORSK is a remote area of ​​exiled convicts)
            it was only later invented like many expressions like "You will go out into the field ... you can see far away"))
        4. Military Builder
          Military Builder 1 July 2017 08: 33
          0
          Do you know how the history of Russia is interesting?
          The fact that it is, and not invented by modern "historians." Orynbor and Ombi - if this is the name of the territories where Kazakh shepherds grazed cattle, then I agree with you, and by the way, the territory belongs to the state is not determined by the fact that representatives of a particular nationality (kind, zhuz) were engaged in any kind of activity, Tajiks and Uzbeks are now sweeping Moscow streets - this does not mean that Moscow is an Uzbek or Tajik city.
      4. Bek
        Bek 23 July 2012 11: 38
        -4
        You are wrong, dear friend, it follows from your logic that the khanate is not a state, then the principality is also not a state, respectively - Kievan Rus, the Smolensk principality, the Grand Duchy of Moscow are all feudal formations and have nothing to do with present-day Russia. Here are the parallels obtained. And about which southern Ural territories do you mention here, which are supposedly native Russian? you were not mistaken at the poles. I can give you examples. The same Orenburg is the territory of Kazakhstan, Orenburg in Kazakh - Orynbor is the first capital of the Kazakh SSR.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 57
          +1
          especially touches about Orenburg - -burg is a typical Kazakh ending ...
          Actually, it was the capital of the Kyrgyz autonomy, and not the Kazakh SSR - is there any difference?
          1. Akishbekov
            Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 11
            -2
            Sarych you would read why it was the Kyrgyz)) By the way, all Kazakhs in those days were called Kyrgyz if that)
            1. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 12: 26
              +1
              I know why the Kyrgyz - because there were no Kazakhs, but there were stray, that is, nomadic Kyrgyz, and black Kyrgyz ...
              1. Akishbekov
                Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 35
                +2
                Yes, apparently, Kazakhs strongly offended you, well, it happens) come the second time we will meet as a guest hospitably dastarkhan as it should be covered)
                1. matex
                  matex 23 July 2012 12: 53
                  +3
                  Quote: Akishbekov
                  come the second time we meet as a guest hospitably dastarkhan as it should be covered)

                  I have no doubt ... I’ve visited more than once and invited me to visit myself, but it’s not worth the resentment to squabble us.
              2. viktorrymar
                viktorrymar 24 July 2012 11: 33
                +2
                Kazakhs fuck you, or what? why are you so angry?
              3. nezvaniy_gost
                nezvaniy_gost 12 July 2017 21: 46
                0
                write a candidate for history. You will be the second medina)))
            2. aquatic
              aquatic 23 July 2012 13: 52
              +2
              Orenburg was the capital of the Kyrgyz SSR)) but not the Kyrgyz Khanate do you feel the difference? At the councils they made the capital, and this is not a fig, does not mean that the Krigiz historically founded it)))
        2. vlbelugin
          vlbelugin 23 July 2012 16: 35
          +4
          I do not know what books you read. Nowadays, historians with vocational schools have gained a mass in each nationality. And every nation, tribe, etc. considers itself to be the navel of the earth. However, in 1971 I graduated from 21 secondary schools in Kustanai and we had one Kazakh in a class of 35 people. In the city of Kazakh, this is a rarity.
          Slavs and Germans are the main nationality of the city.
          The neighboring state farms are Slavs - Germans. Where did the Kazakhs go to the northern part of Kazakhstan? Yes, there have never been.
          1. marshes
            marshes 23 July 2012 16: 53
            -1
            Quote: vlbelugin
            The neighboring state farms are Slavs - Germans. Where did the Kazakhs go to the northern part of Kazakhstan? Yes, there have never been.

            In Kazakhstan, new burials of victims of the famine of the 30s were found



            In Pavlodar region of Kazakhstan, new burial places of victims of mass famine in the USSR of 1932-1933 were discovered. This, according to Tengrinews.kz, said the head of the department of state accounting and use of the National Archival Fund of the Republic Bekmuhamed Islyam.
            According to him, since the beginning of this year, the fund’s employees have established the location of more than three dozen graves, including fraternal ones. How many people rest in them is unknown. Now, on each of the burials, plates with a commemorative inscription are being installed.

            "People were buried in mass graves and no one kept any records then. Only in the Irtysh region there are two wells where the dead were dumped. And only local residents who care for these burials have kept their memory. According to approximate data, each of them can to be up to 200 people, "Islyam said.

            It should be noted that in Pavlodar on May 31 it is planned to open a monument to the victims of mass hunger in the 30s of the last century. Two places are known in the city where the dead were buried in mass graves: a Muslim cemetery and the territory on which the Central Park of Culture and Rest is currently located.

            The mass famine on the territory of the USSR in 1932-33 arose as a result of "repressive measures to ensure grain procurement" (which significantly aggravated the grave consequences of a crop failure), as well as the thoughtless policy of the Soviet leadership, which pursued a course of collectivization. The famine affected Ukraine, the North Caucasus, the South Urals, as well as the Lower and Middle Volga regions, the Central Black Earth Region, Kazakhstan, and Western Siberia. In Ukraine, the mass famine during the years of collectivization was called the Holodomor. In Kiev, he was recognized as genocide of the Ukrainian people.

            The total estimates of people who died then range from 2 to 10 million. In Kazakhstan, according to various sources, from one to two million people became victims of hunger. During 1931-1933, 48 percent of the indigenous population died or left the Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic
          2. kush62
            kush62 23 July 2012 19: 16
            0
            Do not star dear! I graduated from the same school in the 77th. Kazakhs in Kustanai in bulk. And now when the southern ones are pinned down (it's like the MAAskvichs) With blue blood, it became even more.
          3. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 22: 53
            -1
            Pepper is clear, Kostanay is the historical land of the German people! Although they arrived there en masse only half an hour later than the "historical" Russians. By the way, upon arrival, the "empty land" had not yet dried out from Kazakh blood. Population censuses of the region from tsarist times to the time of settlement by the Hans and Ivans of the Kustanay region will help you.
    3. Bek
      Bek 23 July 2012 11: 29
      -5
      I agree to all 100%
  8. nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 09: 22
    0
    That's right - bai have been and will be! But, a woman gave birth, is giving birth and will give birth with a wavka in the head of people! And we must not leave these lands unattended and "sanitary" work must be carried out - to help cleanse the environment from infection!

    But MORE IMPORTANT = FAST, clean your environment from infection.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 10
      -4
      There was also a nurse - first get rid of cockroaches and other infections from your own head, then from the apartment, then the entrance, and then we'll see ...
      1. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 43
        +2
        Quote: Brother Sarich
        First, take out the cockroaches and other infections from your own head, then from the apartment, then the entrance, and then we'll see ...

        As in the film - Dog Heart - the professor explained.
        The bottom line is that we must begin to solve all problems ourselves, even global ones. And then they go dirty shoes on the Persian carpet - but they talk about the fate of entire countries.
        It has always been like this with us - the stupider and dumber the person - the greater the boss.
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 23: 59
        +1
        I was warned for this comment - I believe that it is absolutely undeserved!
  9. Committee
    Committee 23 July 2012 09: 27
    +2
    There will be a will - there will be a decision. Fast and efficient. And it is not a problem to remove or replace individual "leaders".

    Although the topic is raised correctly, the article is a plus.
  10. vlbelugin
    vlbelugin 23 July 2012 09: 36
    0
    itr,
    Well, nifiga yourself a historian.
  11. Akishbekov
    Akishbekov 23 July 2012 10: 01
    0
    The cynical definition of "Artificial states of Central Asia" is over! The author clearly does not know the history, read it, googled a couple of pages and now posted this article)) some sort of orientalist) If you read and studied the history of Central Asia, you would know that Kazakhstan did not voluntarily join Russia! And Abulkhair Khan who allegedly voluntarily agreed to join Russia was not the khans of all three zhuzes, he was the sultan of the younger zhuz! Which was not supported by the sultans of other zhuzes. Therefore, he (Abulkhair) decided to seek the support of a third party (Russia). Further you will find information yourself.
    I just want to convey to the author that the history of Central Asia is much older than he thinks! And civilization originated in Central Asia much earlier than Kievan Rus appeared! It is necessary to respect other cultures, especially the Russians, since all of Russia consists of many nationalities, and if you divide it, then only Moscow and St. Petersburg will remain!
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar 23 July 2012 10: 56
      +3
      Quote: Akishbekov
      If you read and studied the history of Central Asia, you would know that Kazakhstan did not voluntarily join Russia! And Abulkhair Khan, who allegedly voluntarily agreed to join Russia, was not the khans of all three Zhuzes, he was the Sultan of the Youngest Zhuz! Which did not support the sultans of other zhuzs. Therefore, he (Abulkhair) decided to seek the support of a third party (Russia)
      N-yes, your Nazarbayev will die and your communal-clan zhuzes will tear Kazakhstan to rags. Rewrite the story now.
      1. Akishbekov
        Akishbekov 23 July 2012 11: 47
        +1
        Do not rewrite))) You just read Soviet history where all 15 republics tearfully begged to join the Russian Empire))
    2. antiaircrafter
      antiaircrafter 23 July 2012 14: 00
      +2
      Quote: Akishbekov
      all of Russia consists of many nationalities

      But there are more than Russian 80%
      so to hell with you and not
      Quote: Akishbekov
      divide her
      1. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 44
        +2
        Quote: antiaircrafter
        But there are more than Russian 80%

        Yes, Russians in Russia are a fundamental nation. About 90% of all Russians are so.
  12. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 10: 02
    -2
    The article is rude and ignorant!
    To say that a state can be artificially formed about any state - everywhere there are skeletons in the closet, which they usually prefer to keep quiet about ...
    The Central Asian republics did not think of themselves outside the Union - in order to omustakillichit them it was necessary to make a lot of efforts, up to sending emissaries from the Baltic republics to instill "ideals of democracy" ...
    Radical Islam, by the way, was also instilled with the active participation and with the permission of the Center!
  13. KAZAKHSTAN
    KAZAKHSTAN 23 July 2012 10: 22
    -3
    Now I see for sure what kind of mass gathered at the monitors on this site .. Your level and confirmation that the masses can be controlled. Ignorance and amateurism are your eternal companions. Each of you is weak because you are loners because all your judgments are nothing but quotes from books that you were given to read because the strong makes the person standing next to him strong and together they are invincible force! The strength of those who unite, who builds good even on ruins. The ancients said: "You will recognize them by your deeds" "The true believer is not the one who spends his days in prayers and rituals, but the one who lives according to God's law for people. True faith is in the soul man, in his actions and there is no need to put it on display God sees her and so Now I see exactly what kind of mass gathered at the monitors on this site .. Your level and confirmation that the masses can be controlled. Ignorance and amateurism are your eternal companions. you are weak because you are loners because all your judgments are nothing more than quotes from books that were given to you to read because the strong makes the person standing next to him strong and together they are an invincible force! The strength is in those who unite, who build good even on ruins. The ancients said: "you will recognize them by their actions" "a truly orthodox is not the one who spends his days in prayers and rituals, but the one who lives according to God's law for people. True faith is in the soul of a person, in his actions and there is no need to expose it to Godsees her and so "
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar 23 July 2012 11: 01
      +2
      Quote: KAZAKHSTAN
      Now I see for sure what the mass gathered at the monitors on this site
      In short, you are all fools, I'm the only one smart. Why only your "ancients" do not quote anything except the Koran ...
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 37
        +1
        He is so smart that he inserts everything more than once into posts ...
      2. Akishbekov
        Akishbekov 23 July 2012 11: 49
        0
        Pushkar must accept history as there is read the history of other states and you will understand that Russia is not the center of the universe))
        1. skullcap
          skullcap 23 July 2012 16: 53
          +3
          Akishbekov Today, 11: 49
          one must accept history as there is read the history of other states
          --------------------------------------------------
          This is one of the main problems that each state writes and constantly improves each - its own version of history. And the huge question arises, what state is the “as it is” history?
          Uzbekistan or Tajikistan? Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan?
          And we don’t need your showdowns at all, let alone participation in them. But, to be objective, and not to follow the tribal pride, you yourself cannot solve them bloodlessly. And now no one needs additional refugees.
          Therefore, apparently, we can’t get anywhere from the submarine and will have to, in which case, take measures to restore order in the region in question, and you should learn the history “as it is”.
          By the way, why do you accept the primordial lands of the Kazakhs somewhere around the 18 century, and not earlier. Dig deeper - you will learn a lot of interesting things. For example, that the Mongoloids even in Altai came in the 4 century BC. And before that, Europeans lived throughout the entire territory (including the territory of modern Kazakhstan).
          And it turns out that almost all the peoples living in the region (with the exception of mountain Tajiks) are relatively recent aliens. As it is for you, the "indigenous peoples", nor regrettable.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 23: 13
            -2
            You will not believe it, but any tipsy Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tuvinian, Altai will tell you that his ancestors were red-haired. Moreover, the Turans told this when European scientists laughed at it, and only recently, after studying haplogroups and other DNA analyzes, now they expose themselves as if they always knew this.
            Any Kazakh grandmother at the sight of a red-haired green-eyed newborn says "Nagyz Cossack!" ("A real Kazakh!"). The influence of the gene for black hair and brown eyes has won over these millennia, but if you look, then the Eastern Slavs have not changed weakly during their communication with the steppe people, starting from the 9th century :)
            And the graves of Caucasians on our land are the graves of our direct ancestors. Previously, these were myths that were laughed at in the West, now it is a routine scientific fact. So it is absolutely stupid to accuse us of seizing foreign land. Whoever came to us came and assimilated, changing our appearance. My mother is from the Uysun clan (Dzhambul region, South Kazakhstan) - her ancestors were Iranian-speaking Scythians, and you can't even compose anything here, because Usuns have lived in this territory for thousands of years, which is described by the various ancient historians themselves. My father is from the Argyn clan (descendants of the Turkic-speaking Huns) - the Turks came to the territory of modern Kazakhstan two thousand years ago and completely mixed with the local Scythian nomads into one people, since the way of life was the same nomadic. Taking into account my father, my ancestors have been lying on this earth for two thousand years, and taking into account my mother - I'm afraid to even imagine. And now you start, not really knowing our history, to put in quotation marks the phrase "indigenous people".
            By the way, when the "princess of Ukok" was discovered in the Russian part of Altai, all the local Altaians howled as much - this is our progenitor, do not touch her. To which Russian commentators and Russian scientists sneered and mocked, they say, what relation do narrow-eyed Mongoloids have to the inhabitants of Altai of that period. After genetic analysis, the scientists bit their tongue. The "wild" Altaians turned out to be right - the red-haired Caucasian princess is the direct ancestor of today's Altaians, who now look like typical Mongoloids.
    2. Military Builder
      Military Builder 1 July 2017 08: 57
      0
      KAZAKHSTAN, and where did he copy himself, are there no thoughts?
  14. the gray wolf
    the gray wolf 23 July 2012 10: 26
    +1
    who in general can argue such nonsense ... the author should go to school again, and then to university.
  15. Magadan
    Magadan 23 July 2012 10: 28
    +12
    The article is complete crap. Maybe Samarkand and Bukhara were also founded by the Bolsheviks? The states of Central Asia existed during the time of Alexander the Great. Their statehood is much older than Russian.
    So those storytellers got it! I don’t understand why this is all? Are they trying to put pressure on some hidden strings of "Russian chauvinism" or what? So we are not some poor people to glorify our history at the expense of humiliating the history of other peoples! Let NATO members with their inferiority complexes deal with this!
    1. Lakkuchu
      Lakkuchu 23 July 2012 15: 31
      +4
      Magadan, you are a plus for knowing history and not only! I noticed a long time ago - you are one of the few Russians on this site who is not infected with the xenophobia virus. One by one there are provocative articles.
    2. foxhaund31
      foxhaund31 23 July 2012 16: 02
      +2
      Magadan, the statehood of Russia is much older than Bayer, Miller, and Schlötzer determined it. Otherwise, I agree that such articles bring enmity, but not friendship.
  16. leon-iv
    leon-iv 23 July 2012 10: 28
    +3
    May they become neocolonies. They pump resources out of them and return to their historical reality, that is, in the 17th century.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 23: 15
      -1
      is it about Russia?)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
  17. borisst64
    borisst64 23 July 2012 10: 31
    +3
    The author is resented by the inhabitants of these republics for the title of the article, and most importantly - the problems of a possible war - such as no emotions. Weird !!
    1. matex
      matex 23 July 2012 10: 39
      0
      Quote: borisst64
      The author is resented by the inhabitants of these republics for the title of the article, and most importantly - the problems of a possible war - such as no emotions. Weird !!

      Cross-border conflicts caused by smugglers are not a reason for a full-blown war, this is nonsense cleaner than the myth of defective statehood. Our leadership is adequate for Bacillus Sahaki is not sick.
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 23 July 2012 10: 43
      +2
      And what is strange, Kazakhstan will be integrated after the death of Nazarbayev into Russia (like Belarus). That on the territory of others will operate PMCs alas, these are the realities of our world.
  18. redcod
    redcod 23 July 2012 10: 31
    -2
    For the Great Russians, whose chauvinism is becoming more and more rabid every year, I would like to remind you that Russian statehood originates from Batu Khan, who united the principalities of ancient Russia, which almost cut each other. To argue about this in my opinion is stupid. But the child of the Golden Horde outgrew its creator and then annexed to itself by conquest. And not the fact that this would have happened if it had not been for the evil genius of Lame Timur, who bleed the rulers of Saray-Berke.
    And the fact that the state of Kazakhstan was recreated at the end of the 20th century can be considered an act of historical justice. I want to emphasize the word "recreated", i.e. arose not from scratch, but on the site of the Kazakh Khanate that existed for many centuries (White Horde, Blue Horde, Golden Horde), in contrast to Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia and Latvia, which did not exist as state formations.
    By the way, the last ruler of the Kazakhs, Kenesary Khan, who devoted his whole life to the struggle for the independence of Kazakhstan, died in 1847.
    So, talking about artificial states on the territory of Central Asia and Kazakhstan is not only wrong, but also unwise.
    1. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 23 July 2012 10: 43
      +4
      The author is not a Great Russian chauvinist, the author is an illiterate shaker.
      That's all.
      It is sad.
    2. Zhaman-Urus
      Zhaman-Urus 23 July 2012 11: 20
      +3
      Tell me, when was the kurultai on which the Kenesars elected the khan of all Kakhakhs? Was his father the khan of the Elder Zhuz or was he himself? What city was the capital of Kenesary? In my opinion, he was an ordinary sultan who revolted and declared himself a khan. In his best years, his power extended to several tribes of Middle Zhuz. Regarding Orenburg, Omsk and Ust-Kamenogorsk, one of the commentators also got excited in my opinion, the territories in which these cities were places of nomadic certain Kazakh clans but there were never the Kazakh cities of Oskemen, Orynbor and Omba, this is both the state of protoukurs and the role of Turkmen navigators in the opening of the New World (I’m not joking, I read it, I almost died). With some Kazakh professors, historians are a little familiar with it, they’re just opportunists and not scientists, and if an order comes to glorify the role of Russia or China, they will just as much and stupidly dump facts and conjectures into a heap.
      And I do not agree with the author of the article, Kazakhstan, in my opinion, is now a capable state, but it’s only tied to the Big Dad too much, it won’t become difficult, but let’s see how no one knows how to end it.
      1. Generalissimus
        Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 30
        +1
        You ... um ... should decipher the term Big Dad.
        Not everyone understands you, being in their own complexes.
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 36
        -2
        It's hard to argue with your words - get ready to catch the cons from the blue ...
        1. Russian-
          Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 45
          +3
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          Get ready to catch the cons from the blue ...

          Is there SUCH here too? Where did I go?
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 28
            0
            Look at the flags of Kazakhstan ...
            1. KZ
              KZ 24 August 2012 14: 22
              -1
              According to the chronicle of your posts, we can safely assume that you have an inferiority complex.
    3. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 11: 20
      +15
      COMPLETE! Lord! To argue on this topic is wrong! Because all writings are for the sake of selfishness! And no one knows the truth! Already after all THIS BECAME CLEAR! We do not have accurate data!
      And the author ought to take away the "crusts"! Do not write in the newspaper nonsense that kindles passions.
      And "Kazakhstanis" - a compliment = BRAVO - sensible speeches!
      And to the old Furomans - do not forget YOU IN CENTRAL ASIA AND MAGADAN - they began to read! You FORUM IN - not privatized? People on an Internet rummages! YOUR brawl ended, close intimacy. Because the email, chat, you must use!

      And for me - where you live there and live FOR HUMAN! How it happened and it happened! Today it’s not very comfortable for you, and tomorrow your children will still feel some inconvenience, so change the WORLDWIDE for everyone!
      Enough Peace for one troublemaker - USA!

      No need to quarrel on JOY - to merikos!
      1. Generalissimus
        Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 32
        +4
        A rare voice of reason. =) Thank you.
      2. matex
        matex 23 July 2012 11: 37
        +4
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        No need to quarrel on JOY - to merikos!

        You huge fat plus drinks
      3. Bek
        Bek 23 July 2012 18: 54
        -1
        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      4. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 November 2012 23: 19
        -1
        I’ve been reading this site for a long time, I registered only today, so I can’t put the pluses for technical reasons. However, I completely agree with you, consider this a big fat plus from me to your words.
    4. Pushkar
      Pushkar 23 July 2012 11: 29
      -3
      Quote: redcod
      For the Great Russians, whose chauvinism is becoming more and more rabid every year, I would like to remind you that Russian statehood originates from Batu Khan, who united the principalities of ancient Russia, which almost cut each other.
      Russian statehood began with RESISTANCE to all these khans. Once again - do not compose an alternative story.
      1. matex
        matex 23 July 2012 11: 36
        +2
        Quote: Pushkar
        Russian statehood began with RESISTANCE to all these khans. Once again - do not compose an alternative story

        You wrote that the Russian Empire has existed for millennia, and now write that statehood began with the sorrow of the khans ... oops, you have a problem with the dogmas of your state. Something you have on an alternative samhivat more ... wink
        1. loc.bejenari
          loc.bejenari 23 July 2012 16: 20
          0
          and chauvinists write favorably
          for the same people, Alexander Nevsky can be an ardent fighter with a horde and then, depending on the situation, he can establish Russian statehood with the help of the Horde forces, this is the definition when rebellious cities are cut using Tatars
    5. skullcap
      skullcap 23 July 2012 17: 11
      +1
      redcod Today, 10: 31
      For Great Russians, whose chauvinism is becoming more rabid every year
      ---------------------------------------------
      Firstly, it is not necessary to single out separate components from a single Russian people, no matter how great they are. Usually, Russian enemies do this in order to divide and rule.
      Secondly, I would also like to know in detail about Kazakh chauvinism.
    6. Military Builder
      Military Builder 1 July 2017 10: 26
      0
      By the way, the last ruler of the Kazakhs, Kenesary Khan, who devoted his whole life to the struggle for the independence of Kazakhstan, died in 1847.

      You have any Barymtach who has stolen a horse from the Russian peasant, a fighter for independence
      And Kenesary by and large a bandit from the highway
  19. TAGIR
    TAGIR 23 July 2012 10: 42
    +8
    Dear sirs from Central Asia, please use common phrases when communicating. Of course, I'm not a philologist, but expressions like "sosaytovtsy" or "omustakillichit" - you can say to Elton John "suck", but we do not need. And in general you are too hurtful. Nobody disputes your antiquity (perhaps you are older than Adam himself), we are talking about something else. Borders were cut as in Africa (using a ruler) without taking into account national and other nuances. Nobody thought that the USSR would collapse, so they drew inside the country as they wanted. National minorities were crossed with Russians. Moldova and Transnistria, Kazakhstan and the South Urals, Ukraine and Crimea, etc. And so on, it's a shame that basically everything was done at the expense of Russia.
    1. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 23 July 2012 10: 49
      +2
      But how to cut it was necessary? On the Soviet borders? Imperial? Or pre-imperial? What reference point to take? After all, one can also take the times of Khan Tengri as a reference point. =)))
      This approach is not out of the mind.
      And if by national habitats, how many Kazakhs are there from Astrakhan to the Russian-Chinese border of Kazakhs in those parts of Russia, do you know? Orenburg, Omsk ... It is precisely that everything was mixed up .. And those lands were originally nomads. Of course, if you approach with the logic of those who only recognize Alma-Ata as Faithful, then there will be two villages from Kazakhstan. =))
      1. Akishbekov
        Akishbekov 23 July 2012 11: 00
        0
        Apparently Tagir read another story where the Russian nomads populated the Polovtsian steppes)))
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 12
        0
        Nomads cannot have their own land, therefore they are nomads ...
        As such, Kazakhs never existed, various tribes were recorded here, often not particularly related ...
        Now the Kazakh gangs are going to kill me, but their zhuzs are still zones of influence of local gangs of that time, and not the state ...
        The present Uzbeks nevertheless formed on the basis of predominantly settled tribes, but their connection with the Saks and Massagets and other historical peoples is not quite visible. too much of everything was happening here! Uzbeks were also recorded almost forcibly ...
        1. Generalissimus
          Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 25
          +1
          Nomads cannot have their own land, therefore they are nomads ...


          hmm ..))) well, everything is clear.

          As such, Kazakhs never existed, various tribes were recorded here, often not particularly related ...


          Dear Brother Sarych, unlike the vast majority of Russians, Kazakhs know their kind to the depths of centuries, and it is not for you to tell them about tribes (!), And history.
          My good friend, Kazakh, knows a history of a kind until the 12 century, for example.

          Generally speaking, you would read smart books, otherwise it’s a shame to even read this. Especially about the tribes. =)))
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 34
            -1
            Did the Kazakhs tell you this? And without fail every one ... every Kazakh from some kind of khan? I heard these tales, too, but I'm not so gullible ...
            You don’t suspect how many clever books I read about this case at one time ...
            1. KZ
              KZ 24 August 2012 14: 33
              0
              Every self-respecting family in Kazakhstan knows the history of their ancestors, tons of archival materials are raised throughout Kazakhstan and neighboring countries to study this issue. An nth amount of money is spent on this.
              I am not Kazakh, but I understand these issues since I live in Kazakhstan.
              And the fact that you write here about which bad Kazakhs is not true. You can’t harass the whole nation.
              Maybe someone in Kazakhstan oppressed you intimately? So it already depended on your "no" personal qualities.
              And so it is clear that you are no "man"!
        2. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 03
          +2
          Nomads had no land))) What kind of nonsense) They fed the herds in the air and the soldiers slept in the clouds and when it came to hell they flew into the poor settled peoples))) I know why the Uzbeks do not like Kazakhs because we didn’t let our neighbors sleep in ancient times! And now Kazakhstan is the most tolerant state throughout the CIS! Ask everyone who has ever lived in Kazakhstan!
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 12: 23
            -4
            I asked - be surprised how much mate I heard about the "tolerant" Kazakh people ...
            You would really ask around - in fact, almost everyone really hates you, at best they are ready to endure ...
            1. romb
              romb 23 July 2012 12: 38
              +2
              If the Kazakhs are not a tolerant people, then let me give you an example - a true tolerant people.
            2. Floock
              Floock 23 July 2012 13: 04
              +2
              Brother Sarych, do not confuse warm with soft. :) Uzbeks do not really like Kazakhs. Therefore, they often swear. Why? Google replied that Uzbeks do not like not only Kazakhs, but also everyone who lives better. Such a joker, our Google.
              1. Russian-
                Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 47
                +1
                Quote: Floock
                Uzbeks do not really like Kazakhs

                But the Tatars - disliked by the Bashkirs - is also a fact. Although they can’t be distinguished from each other.
            3. Russian-
              Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 46
              +1
              Quote: Brother Sarich
              how much mata heard about the "tolerant" Kazakh people ...

              Kazakhs are far from tolerant.
            4. Bek
              Bek 23 July 2012 18: 58
              0
              Are you such an aggressive Uzbek? Everyone loves the Kazakh people, even those five of your brothers who dig a toilet in my yard and build a barn. So I would be silent.
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher 24 July 2012 23: 37
                0
                In the 90s, Kazakhs dug toilets in Uzbekistan. Everything in the world is passing, especially life. The main thing in this life is to understand that a super-duper toilet lined with golden bars will not even give an aesthetic pleasure or moral satisfaction to an ass. In general, dude - here we are talking about spiritual things, and not about toilets. You are not in the subject of a bit ...
        3. Beck
          Beck 23 July 2012 12: 19
          +7
          Brother.
          You half brother half talk. In half, this is when from my point of view it is objective. Half of it is when your statements are not confirmed by anything other than emotions and superficial glide on the topic with the use of gangster folklore. I don’t know who you are by nationality, and I don’t want to know, a person is important to me. But even if I knew I would never insult your people with indecent expressions. Among normal people of all nations, this, in the modern world, is not accepted.
          Now about the essence. According to the history of development, it so happened that two systems were formed: sedentary and nomadic. And each with its own characteristics. You are confusing the concepts of wandering and wandering. Gypsies wander crossing any parallels and meridians. They wander from now on. And this is still the land of nomads. To the mountain range, to the river, to the seashore. These were the boundaries. Unlike the sedentary formation of life on nomadic borders, it was not customary to erect a semblance of striped barriers or to establish border posts. There were verbal agreements with neighboring tribes, we do not go over this and you do not go over it. Well, if a war happened, then the actions began precisely from these positions. Yes, the ethnonym Cossack in ours, in Russian, Kazakh as an ethnonym of our people did not exist. It originated in the 15th century. But this is only an ethnonym. There was always blood. Now there are no ethnonyms Egyptian (ancient), Assyrian, Elin. But their blood continues to flow in the Copts of Egypt, Syrians, Greeks. The French nation began to take shape in the 13-14 centuries, and that is far from the 15th century. The French were formed, in your language, from the "bandit formations" of Gascons, Burguds, Navarians and others. And so it went everywhere. The formation of all the nations of the world, in the modern sense, began somewhere in the 12th century. Now, what are zhuzes? This is the purest example of feudal fragmentation and nothing more. As in Russia before the 13th century. Now about the states. There have been several forms of statehood in history. There were city-states, states of the early centuries, middle ages, agricultural states and nomadic states. Undoubtedly they differed from each other in small and large. But they all had four basic features of the state. This is 1. Geographic territory. 2. The owner of this territory is the prince, king, king, khan. 3. The population of this territory is the people. 4. The body of management of the aggregate economy of the population. In Russia, these are boyars, clerks. In Kazakhstan, there are sultans and beks.

          So brother you are wrong. But it doesn’t matter. The trouble is that you are not in doubt, not thinking that offends other people. I am not talking about Kazakhs now. With your manner of speaking, you are ready, in your brave manner, to offend anyone. And this is against the background of incomplete knowledge about the subject and giving its fuzzy ideas a categorical statement with the involvement of gangster bravado. If you can comprehend with me the written comprehension. Do not want to comprehend and do not need the sky will not collapse. I ask only about one thing, do not insult history and people.
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 06
      -5
      Mustakillik is independence, it is customary to write with a capital letter and treat this concept with trepidation, pah ...
      No one thought that the Union would collapse, but here they collapsed, tried ...
      1. Cyberfedain
        Cyberfedain 23 July 2012 13: 23
        -4
        ihdinass siratal mustakim - and Allah will lead along an even independent path, letting him know what Mustakim and Mustakillik are, this tahir probably doesn’t know his name
    3. Cyberfedain
      Cyberfedain 23 July 2012 13: 11
      -7
      Ty rights, mi older than Adam himself, mi like the Russians and Caucasians do not descend from the Semitic Adam, our genealogies are from the wolves, we are from Gilgamesh himself. And you have drawn borders in Russia and the Caucasus like on a ruler, on a Jewish ruler, at least we don’t have Jews and Armenians, and this already shows which of us are thoroughbreds, and our statehood was even before your prophet Noah, who was called Aryana- Turanam.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 23 July 2012 13: 34
        +1
        Listen thoroughbred, it’s been the last time you washed yourself? You should not talk to us, we understand not purebreds, but just Russians. Murad, how did you rinse your brains.
        Quote: Cyberfedain
        Ti rights, mi older than Adam himself,
        Adam was the first man on earth!
        1. loc.bejenari
          loc.bejenari 23 July 2012 16: 24
          +2
          that it’s not understandable that he’s just laughing at you
          rather, he writes that all Russian chauvinists, especially those who suffer from the theory of protoss and similar nonsense,
      2. matex
        matex 23 July 2012 13: 39
        0
        Quote: Cyberfedain
        Ty rights, mi older than Adam himself, mi like the Russians and Caucasians do not descend from the Semitic Adam, our genealogies are from the wolves, we are from Gilgamesh himself. And you have drawn borders in Russia and the Caucasus like on a ruler, on a Jewish ruler, at least we don’t have Jews and Armenians, and this already shows which of us are thoroughbreds, and our statehood was even before your prophet Noah, who was called Aryana- Turanam.

        Dear myths and myths, you don’t have to go too far. The greatness of someone should not be affirmed the humiliation of another ... be objective and adequate, this site is not for boasting pussy ... mi.
      3. Zhaman-Urus
        Zhaman-Urus 23 July 2012 13: 43
        +3
        Why did you smoke? Or opened the border with Chu? Descendants of the wolves? It is for you and Nokhchi to decide which of you is more wolfish, otherwise the wolves are alone and there are many descendants. Well, I already wrote about the role of Turkmen seafarers in the opening of America. You apparently read the same comic book, sorry textbook of Great Turkmenistan and the Ruhnama.
        1. matex
          matex 23 July 2012 13: 55
          +2
          Quote: Zhaman-Urus
          Why did you smoke? Or opened the border with Chu? Descendants of the wolves?

          Cyberfedain - Fidayins, Assassins, etc. crap + wolves = Gashish Kumarovich Kosyachkov wassat You can no longer ask what he ate in the gardens of Paradis laughing
        2. Cyberfedain
          Cyberfedain 23 July 2012 15: 54
          -2
          In all historical books it is written that the Türks come from wolves, the Türks consider the wolf to be the founder of the clan, the deity of war and the teacher ... our living ancestor, It was the wolf fighting spirit that allowed the steppe tribes in the Middle Ages to conquer all of Asia and Europe, to form the most extensive empires among the either existing. If there were no steppe wolves and warlike nomads worshiping them, the history of mankind would be different.


          “We know the Türks - their ancestor was a wolf. According to the entries in “Historical notes of Ugus”, the first ancestor of the Turks was a gray wolf: “A large wolf with gray hair and bristles came out of a ray of light.”
          Lanie Galusai. "The Chinese Chronicle of the Northern Nomads"

          “Shanuy (head of state of the Huns) gave birth to two daughters, very beautiful, everyone in the state idolized them. The governor said: “I have daughters, it’s time for them to marry, this must be done according to the will of Heaven. Therefore, in the north of the state, where no one lives, you need to build a high tower, put your daughters there. Ask Heaven to make a choice ... A year later, there was one wolf, who was on duty there day and night and howled, since there was an empty space below the tower, the daughters never left it. The youngest daughter said: “My father put me here, he wants everything to happen according to the will of Heaven, but here came a wolf, probably this is an unusual beast, possibly a messenger of Heaven. So let it be according to his will. ”
          Her older sister in dismay replied: “After all, this is a wild animal, you don’t have to disgrace your parents.” The younger sister did not obey, she became the wife of the wolf and gave birth to a son. Subsequently, they formed the state. Therefore, when their descendants sing songs, their voices are like a wolf howl. ”
          From the book “History of the Huns”

          The wolves of the steppe prepared the most enduring and unpretentious warriors in the world who shook the world: the Huns, Turks. The Huns worshiped the wolf totem and carried the head of the wolf as a symbol on their battle flags, adopting wolf strategy and tactics, wolf wisdom and the fierce character of the Huns, the Türks ground all ethnic groups inhabiting Europe, made the Roman Empire, as well as the German, Celtic, their tributaries Anglo-Saxon tribes for a long time remained dependent on the Huns. Steppe peoples from ancient times to the present day worship the wolf totem; they always compare themselves with wolves, and all their neighbors, Chinese, Persians and Europeans, with sheep; and claim that one steppe valiant warrior is equal in strength and valor to hundreds of peasants with a sheep character. Settled peoples consider the steppe horsemen the most terrible "wolves".
          Among the Türks, even national melodies are imitated by wolf motifs, this motive is brought from the Huns and from the worship of their wolf totem. Turkic folk songs, long and sad, wide as the steppe, the sources of Turkic tunes are wolves, their tunes are altered wolf songs, wolves are the ancestors of Turkic songs.

          In world history, those eastern peoples who were able to reach Europe with their conquests were nomadic, and those who shook the West the most were the three totem-worshiping wolves of the steppe nomadic tribes - the Huns, Turks and Mongols. But the Western peoples who came back to the East were also descendants of nomadic tribes. The founders of ancient Rome are brothers fed by a she-wolf. The she-wolf along with Romulus and Remus are engraved on the coat of arms of Rome. Subsequent Teutons, Germans and Anglo-Saxons were also dashing, they adopted a wolf totem from the Turanian tribes of the Huns and Turkic conquerors of Europe. Without wolves, world history would have been different. Anyone who does not understand wolves will not understand the spirit and character of nomadic peoples, much less understand the difference between nomadic and settled peoples.
      4. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter 23 July 2012 14: 52
        +1
        Quote: Cyberfedain
        our lineage is from the wolves

        Do you have tails? Or what do you prove to others?
      5. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 12
        +2
        Stunned, the Internet is connected in Turkmenistan!
      6. tan0472
        tan0472 23 July 2012 15: 51
        +1
        "Aryana-Turanam" - Aryan bull (round). And you didn't live here then.
        1. Cyberfedain
          Cyberfedain 23 July 2012 15: 57
          -5
          you are an Indo-European woodpecker, the tour is the self-name of the Turkic tribes, they had an ancestor Oks Khan, who is in English. translation - a bull, he is Oguz Khan, he is the god of war Chaos Khan, he is according to your Indo-European crap Kai-Oguz ...... LEARN HISTORY TO LEARN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
          1. tan0472
            tan0472 23 July 2012 17: 57
            +2
            You expert. 2000 years you were not here. Aryan peoples have lived in Asia for tens of thousands of years. Then when countless herds of tours still grazed here. Therefore, this land was called Turan. Where did you teach history? According to your textbooks?
            1. Cyberfedain
              Cyberfedain 23 July 2012 18: 45
              -10
              Religion to Turkic shamanism is 40.000 years old .......................... Proto-Türkic dasas worshiped the deities Teiri, Tuar, Tanri. The archbishop of the Turkic Dasas was a certain Oguz Khan, in fact, this is a fictional person, since in the ancient religion of the Turanist shamans, the Oguz means primordial disorder i.e. chaos. The initial meaning of oguzhan as a deity of war is the god Chaos, so the shamans claimed that the Türks came from the god of war - Chaos, the octagonal star of chaos is the emblem of all Türks. They also worshiped the bulls and the bulls (as in English. Oks - oguz - BULL) gave her the divine name as Tur, from Tuar, Teiri, Tanri. For example, the name Saturn was given to the planet by shamans, which translates as “Issy Tuar, Turan”, “Spirit of Tuar, Turan”, that is, the spirit of God Tuar, Teiri, Tanri, Turan.
              The Türks formed at the junction of two nomadic civilizations: Das and Aryan. Their vast territory was called Dakhistan, the homeland of the Dakhs, Dasov (googled on the internet) ... Dehistan is the ancestral home of the Proto-Türks, the confrontation of proto-Indo-Europeans with proto-Türks is described in the Rig Veda, which depicts the ancestors of the nomads as Dakhov-devils, devas. Dahi Prototurks expelled the Proto-Indo-Europeans from Central Asia to India, drove them up to remote East Asia. Nevertheless, there was an assimilation of the Dakhs with the Aryans, merged together, as a result of which the name of all Turkic tribes means in the sense of the Aryans. All Turkic tribes end with the meaning “Aryan,” I’ll list to you blind -

              Bulgaria

              Tatarstan

              Tohari

              Suars

              Khazar

              Azerbaijanis

              Avars

              Mishars

              Salary

              Uighurs

              Turkuri

              Mustard

              Ogurs

              Sabirs (who gave the name of Siberia)

              Uighurs

              Akatsariy, Kutigariy (Huns)

              Bashkirs

              Majari (Hungarians)

              I WILL NOT LIST ALL THE OTHERS, THIS WILL BE ENOUGH TO YOU.
              Türks exist with their shamans, even when there was no Russian continent along which you walk
              1. Zhaman-Urus
                Zhaman-Urus 23 July 2012 20: 39
                +4
                I thought you were at least a little adequate or just joked, but in my opinion there is one conclusion after the previous post - you will forgive
                1. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 00: 02
                  +3
                  He is absolutely serious and almost hopeless in this regard ...
                2. matex
                  matex 24 July 2012 12: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Zhaman-Urus
                  but in my opinion the conclusion is one after the previous post, you will forgive

                  I agree only one: Uukurok laughing Ay edren loaf to see in the current year, the grass is boring ugly ....
              2. nickname 1 and 2
                nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 22: 28
                +3
                40.000 years -? I do not believe! And how do you prove it?
                And who from what continent has this seen? Which papyrus did you record on? How are they preserved?
                Forty thousand years = bent!
                I really thought that THEY "opuses" no longer read, tk. full of admissions that for 300 years, and for 500 liters. and more - we do not really know anything.
                And what has been preserved is written down like this (just as I. Stalin rewrote the history, and the evidence of his lies is destroyed).
                I didn’t know, I would have saved for you something, there is a very zealous debater on this subject. That would reduce you ....!
              3. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 20 November 2012 01: 41
                -1
                All people on Earth, including Turkmen, are descended from monkeys. And only we - Kazakhs - descended from love laughing
      7. Lakkuchu
        Lakkuchu 23 July 2012 16: 32
        +1
        Do you hear the ancient ?! You made everyone laugh here !! ))) And my advice to you do not hurt the Caucasians!
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          Roman Skomorokhov 23 July 2012 23: 00
          +2
          The list is murderous ...

          And this is - Türks exist with their shamans, even when there was no Russian continent along which you walk - generally a masterpiece!

          Quote: Cyberfedain
          Azerbaijanis
          - very in tune with the Aryans / Aryans ... the roots glow right through ...

          I would like to ask you to pour the same, but obviously not fate ...
          1. Cyberfedain
            Cyberfedain 24 July 2012 10: 50
            -2
            Azari (azari, adari; آذری Āḏarī / ɑːzæri /, arab. Al-āḏarīya) - Oghuz, autochthonous people of the state of Azerbaijan
            1. Zhaman-Urus
              Zhaman-Urus 24 July 2012 17: 40
              +1
              AZERI - oh great TURK, no need to rearrange the letters as you like. In historical science there are certain rules, which vowels are replaced with respect to the letters a e, I cannot say with certainty, but it is a force to deduce the Azeri Turks from the Saka tribes of the Dai-Dakhs, and why not deduce them from the Dari language group in Asia? The question is how the god Chaos is consonant (if I am not mistaken the Greek word and Khan Oguz? According to Saturn, all words with the root "tour" in your opinion come from prototyuk? Explain to me then the word "fool" because the letters "D" and "T" are just are often used interchangeably.
  20. Barrel
    Barrel 23 July 2012 10: 44
    +1
    Yes, all states were created artificially, only you Russians went from Adam and Eve. It just infuriates this chauvinism. So after all, and to Nazism is not far.
    1. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 23 July 2012 10: 56
      0
      Arkaim is .. =))
    2. virm
      virm 23 July 2012 11: 32
      +1
      Calm down. Russians and Ukrainians are one nation.
      1. Generalissimus
        Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 38
        +2
        Russians and Ukrainians are not one nation. Do not impose on Ukrainians this is your desire.
        The nation, among other well-known criteria, differs in language and culture, traditions that are different for Ukrainians and Russians.
        Brotherhood = no question. Brotherly in the broadest sense of the word. No need to strangle anyone in a family embrace to death. You just need to live fraternally.
        1. serge
          serge 23 July 2012 12: 46
          +2
          According to genetics, Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians are one nation (http://haplogroup.narod.ru/russ.html). The rest is regional features. Who makes okroshka on kefir, who does kvass. And the Slavic neighbors are very close in genetics. Genetics is an objective science.

          1. Generalissimus
            Generalissimus 23 July 2012 13: 10
            +2
            Lord, what’s more, genetics. Leave it to Potkin, for God's sake ..
            Do not fool your head.
            Culture and traditions, history determine much more than genetics. Genetics is similar, but different nations.
            The Poles are also Slavs, only the Russians are considered the lowest race by the Mongolians, and they are with the Coy.
      2. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 49
        +1
        Quote: virm
        . Russians and Ukrainians are one nation

        That's for sure!!! This can also be attributed to Belarus. There is nothing for us to share.
    3. serge
      serge 23 July 2012 11: 35
      +3
      It just infuriates this chauvinism ... you alone, Russians, went from Adam and Eve ....
      ---------------------------------
      So far, we see chauvinism as a state policy in almost all post-Soviet "new formations" (including Ukraine), except for Russia and Belarus. It is characteristic that Russia is the only state in the post-Soviet space where migrant workers from other former Soviet republics are bursting. And from Adam and Eve came the Jews, which follows from their scriptures, the so-called. "Old Testament (aka Torah)". The Russians are somehow on their own.
      1. Generalissimus
        Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 42
        +3
        Perhaps it will be news for you that no one is breaking from Kazakhstan to Russia. By the way, including Russians. There are even Germans, and those - many in Germany decided not to go.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 50
          -1
          In fact, everyone who could have already moved out, just three million, the rest are still in thought or simply can’t - not particularly in Russia they are happy for immigrants, especially when you consider that it seems that you have to leave your native land, where hundreds of years ancestors lived ...
          1. Akishbekov
            Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 15
            +2
            Sarych, and you know that those who left for Russia and Germany after the collapse returned again to Kazakhstan! Or that the Uzbeks come to work in Kazakhstan to us (whether they have a good life))
            1. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 12: 20
              0
              That the Uzbeks almost come to slavery - in the course, about those who returned from Germany - tales ...
              No, maybe a dozen have returned, why not, but in large numbers - there is no such phenomenon ...
        2. serge
          serge 23 July 2012 12: 12
          +1
          nobody breaks from Kazakhstan to Russia
          -----------------------------------------
          It may not break, but the Russians are leaving. Of the 6 Russians in 200, 000 remained in Kazakhstan in 1989 in Kazakhstan. This directly indicates the presence of uncomfortable living conditions.
          1. Generalissimus
            Generalissimus 23 July 2012 13: 02
            +1
            no, you use incorrect data =) The bulk left in the very first years after the collapse of the Union. And this was connected with completely different reasons, in the first place - with a sharp impoverishment of the population. People hoped that it would be better in Russia. But, as it turned out, in Russia it was no better, and no one was waiting for them there. As far as we know, now there is a reverse process - they are returning.
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 20 November 2012 01: 54
            -1
            1) The vast majority of Russian Kazakhstanis in 1991 were natives of other republics of the USSR, usually the RSFSR. Naturally, after the collapse of the Union, they decided to return home. They were not going to emigrate from their country; in the Kazakh SSR, they were at work, moved on a Komsomol ticket, or simply sent by the state.
            In addition, 90% of the officers in the Kazakh SSR were Slavs, natives of Russia and Ukraine. They did not want to serve Kazakhstan, they were transferred or simply moved back to Russia.
            The main outflow of the Slavic and German population was in the 90s. Before the collapse of the USSR, the standard of living in Kazakhstan was significantly lower than in Russia, and after a short agony of industry, it generally fell below the plinth. Everyone was “uncomfortable”, regardless of ethnicity.
            2) Slavs have higher mortality than Kazakhs, lower fertility and lower life expectancy. The Kazakh family has more children, suffers less from problems associated with excessive consumption of alcohol, respectively, fewer accidents, fights and other things happen.
            3) Kazakhs actively moved from other countries to Kazakhstan (including from the Russian Federation), in connection with this, their percentage share increased significantly. I myself moved to the 90s from Russia to KZ.

            By the way, 20% of the leaving Slavs then returns back to KZ. Cases of the return of the Germans are also not uncommon; I personally know a bunch of German returning families. Familiar Greeks almost all returned.
        3. aquatic
          aquatic 23 July 2012 14: 01
          +2
          Likely it will be breaking news for you) I live in the border region with Kazakhstan,
          break and even how) and study and live and work come) and "quarters" already have Kazakh
        4. Nickname
          Nickname 23 July 2012 14: 03
          +1
          Maybe for you it will be news that thousands of Kazakhs live and work in Moscow?
          1. Generalissimus
            Generalissimus 23 July 2012 14: 07
            0
            What, yards sweep? =))) I do not believe it. I have not seen such.
          2. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 16
            +1
            For twenty million in the agglomeration, there may be several thousand Kazakhs, but this is not a phenomenon ...
            The streets just do not sweep ...
    4. ole
      ole 23 July 2012 11: 36
      +1
      Barrel,
      It’s all from resentment, since we were told from childhood that the sisters of the republics needed help and I remember very well how they couldn’t buy sausages in Cherepovets in 1987, and in Odessa (I was there that year in August September), there were not only sausages but also chips in simple plastic bags, candy unmeasured. The infrastructure was built, factories, cities, etc. And so it always develops (now) that mine will live and so, and that we need help. I think if only we lived under equal conditions (in the USSR), then there would be no resentment from separation. And it turns out they invested money and got a fig. (mostly talking about Asian republics)
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 11: 47
        +3
        So is it Odessa inhabitants of Cherepovets sausage and sweets with chips gobbled up? And we thought ...
        1. ole
          ole 23 July 2012 22: 18
          0
          Brother Sarych,
          You know it’s not funny when in the 90s there was nothing to eat at all and they gave parents pasta a salary.
    5. Pushkar
      Pushkar 23 July 2012 11: 36
      0
      Quote: Barrel
      It just infuriates this chauvinism. So after all, and to Nazism is not far.
      Are you talking about the Heroes of Ukraine - Shukhevych and Bandera?
      1. Barrel
        Barrel 25 July 2012 18: 42
        0
        I do not justify them, but they were not chauvinists. Read the definition on Wikipedia.
    6. antiaircrafter
      antiaircrafter 23 July 2012 14: 54
      +2
      Quote: Barrel
      you Russians alone have come from Adam and Eve.

      No, we went from Svarog!
      1. loc.bejenari
        loc.bejenari 23 July 2012 16: 28
        +2
        no, you're wrong - as it was written here before - Russians came from protorusses who appeared from Neanderthals who came under cosmic radiation laughing
        there is such a pseudo scientist Petukhov (or rather, was)
        especially smart chauvinists constantly refer to him
        I read it, cried laughing
        1. antiaircrafter
          antiaircrafter 23 July 2012 16: 50
          +1
          Quote: loc.bejenari
          Russians descended from protorusses who appeared from Neanderthals who came under cosmic radiation

          damn ... I'm an alien .. winked
  21. amph1cyon
    amph1cyon 23 July 2012 11: 34
    +11
    Obviously, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan are artificial states.

    As for Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan, I have nothing against it, because I do not live there. But about Kazakhstan they went too far. Kazakhstan is in no way an artificial state.



    So Kazakhstan is not such. My state has its own history, and it’s very ancient, it has its own language and traditions.

    You write good articles, but this article just killed me on the spot. I didn’t like it.

    But what I agree on is that com relations between Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan are growing.

    Radical Islam is growing.

    What kills me in my country is that young girls and even women put on this hijab and wear it, supposedly Muslim Kazakhs. Yes, in any century Kazakhs wore hijabs, this is some kind of moronism. Especially in our south, every second wears a hijab. Once I witnessed when a woman in a hijab and a burqa entered the bus, only her eyes were visible, so the whole bus was so frightened by her, I myself sat at the end and thought whether we would take off into the air or still get home safely. And many began, as it were, for beauty or fashion, to read namaz, to grow goat beards (and they want to come up and pull them out). For that matter, my dog ​​is even more Muslim than these men who spend all day in the mosque, at least during Oraza, I'm not talking about ordinary days) does not smoke, does not drink alcohol, does not swear to the right and to the left and does not gape mobile phones from schoolchildren. Yes, he gopes. 2 years ago, I was in the 10th grade, so my mobile was almost killed by men in a skullcap, a tumar on the chest and a seal with an inscription in Arabic (Allah is great). I asked him not ashamed to do this, in the next world you will burn in hell. To which he received the expected answer: "You are a Muslim, but your Muslim brother needs help, so help me, give it to my mobile for good." So I think this is problem number 2, respectively, after the aggression from the US and NATO
    1. Zhaman-Urus
      Zhaman-Urus 23 July 2012 13: 37
      +6
      My friend has a relative who works in the "Committee", of course, they are still partisans, but sometimes they give out something. So to mine in the late 90s or very early 2000s in the large industrial city of Center. Kaz-na appeared "wahabbits" began to preach attempts to collect money for "jihad", etc. The result is that the main steering ideologists simply disappeared, the youngsters with brainwash were brought where they needed to put their brains in place a little and released, warning that they could disappear if they did not calm down. And Islam among Kazakhs, in my opinion, is very similar to Orthodoxy among Russians, that is, I am a Muslim but I don’t keep pork, I drink vodka, I’m Orthodox, but I didn’t fast in the church after baptism, when I don’t even know, but I’ll tear everyone up for Holy Orthodox Russia.
      The imposition of the kzahs of the extreme currents of Islam will not bring to good and it occurs on the basis of social separation, i.e. they find children from poor villages who came to the city to work and brainwash them saying that infidels and puppets are to blame for their troubles. So Wahhabism will disappear along with illiteracy and unemployment.
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 18
        +1
        Literacy and normal work are more likely to disappear, and the Wahhabis will triumph ...
  22. Igarr
    Igarr 23 July 2012 11: 42
    +3
    They are about borders - they are about chauvinism.
    Words, chtoli, forgot how to understand?
    Who argues that there was Bactria, Sogdiana? Kushan State?
    Who argues that the origins of the Vikings (Norwegian peoples) in Turkmenistan? Or do not know about it?
    Who argues that there were the Kokand Khanate, the Bukhara emirate, Khiva?
    Who argues that there was a Dzungarian state?
    There was Kievan Rus, there was Muscovy, there was Great Lithuania.
    ..
    It's about boundaries.
    And not the historicity of states.
    And - hysteria - commenting.
    1. matex
      matex 23 July 2012 11: 52
      +2
      Quote: Igarr
      We are talking about borders. And not the historicity of states.

      In this way you can write that R.F. an artificial state, so to speak, the borders were not cut so gentlemen in the 20s, it’s logical, isn’t it? wink
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 23 July 2012 11: 57
        +2
        Yes, yes .. one hundred times yes.
        The Russian Federation is an artificial entity.
        Because, historically, Russia is the USSR with the inclusion of Poland, Finland, Alaska.
        Still to list?
        ...
        ...
        I like it so.
        That's all.
        Who likes - in another way - it's their business.
        1. matex
          matex 23 July 2012 12: 05
          +1
          Quote: Igarr
          Yes, yes .. hundred times yes. The Russian Federation is an artificial entity.

          Well then we are all surrogates smile I agree that power is in unity and not in the dispersal of forces and peoples.
        2. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 21
          +2
          The Russian Federation and Russia (the original Russian territories) are different territories)) Let's remove all the republics to start with the Russian Federation what remains?
    2. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 23 July 2012 11: 59
      +4
      umm .... you are right in part! =))
      The article is written about something else. At some point, everyone moved away from the topic.

      As for the article itself.
      The author is absolutely wrong that Russia should return to Central Asia as restoration of Great Russia.
      This is simply fatal nonsense for Russia.
      Russia just has to conduct the process that Nazarbayev put forward -
      maximum integration, Eurasian Union. An idea that for some reason is now considered Putin's.
      This is more than enough. In the most extreme case, it will be
      confederation.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 23 July 2012 12: 17
        +3
        It can and (not to mention what it should) be only about conscious unification for creative action.
        Never was Great Russia.
        There was a Great Commonwealth. Ended up. Once.
        Participated in this - Moscow Russia, Tatar, Bashkir, Kazakh, troops. I don’t specifically disclose which Hordes, but there were many of them: Nogai and ... add it yourself.
        ..
        We (all who are nervous here) - since ancient times were close / together.
        They fought and put up.
        They laughed and laughed.
        Married - they gave out marriage.
        Ancient Russia - half of the wives of the Kipchaks / Pechenegs / Polovtsians. Who are the Kypchaks? You know.
        The other half is from other countries.
        Where are the Russian princesses / princesses? For the khans, khagans, shahs, princes ... whom?
        They all became related by blood.
        ..
        And here in the dashes on the map .... we can not figure it out.
    3. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 18
      +1
      So what are the boundaries? we say that the border between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan is controversial but not in favor of Russia, therefore politicians do not raise this issue!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 19
        -1
        It was written above that if we talk about borders, there will be little left of Kazakhstan ...
        1. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 31
          0
          Thanks Sarych)) I read your comments for the sake of ..... ..... (purely neighing) They give me no sensible information, you can turn off the logic when you read Sarych's comments)) I look forward to continuing ....
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 37
            0
            If you were a little deeper in this matter, you would be surprised how much logic in my posts! I’m not brainwashed - I look at these Asian showdowns from the side, and this is actually not very funny ...
    4. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 12: 19
      +1
      And-And-And-And-And-And-And-And! following YOUR logic = DISPUTE ABOUT BORDERS - THE MOST STUPID LESSON! WRONG!

      In the village, everyone KNOWS = if there was a conversation between neighbors outside the boundaries of the plot = BE SCANDAL, BATTLE (or even a shootout).

      And HERE about smart books say! How can you arrange a showdown on borders after reading SMART BOOKS .....?
      1. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 51
        +1
        In general, we all have one Homeland - this is our planet Earth.
        Probably the borders for this were thought up so that wars could be unleashed.
  23. bubla5
    bubla5 23 July 2012 11: 43
    0
    Where YOU saw something to build good somewhere, everywhere there is persecution of peoples, one faith destroys another faith, at this stage there is an absolute planned reduction of the population, even in safe Saudi Arabia one part of the people lives well at the expense of the other, or I'm wrong
  24. Woody Allen
    Woody Allen 23 July 2012 11: 44
    +3
    Russia is also "artificial" according to Samsonov ...)
  25. matex
    matex 23 July 2012 11: 59
    +5
    The people are good at discussing and stupid article everyone here is adequate people and everyone understands except for some that the author threw an apple of discord on the forum. We lived in the Empire then in the Union, now in the Commonwealth (be it not okay this word is commonwealth am ) you look soon again we’ll think about what better ... and the Samsonovs and others like him have always been there and will only be worth noting them roughly speaking to ignore his gentlemen laughing
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 12: 32
      +7
      I agree! There’s nothing to argue about) We won’t get anywhere from each other (CIS countries) our stories are intertwined so that we will live together for thousands more years! After all, the matter is not in the nation, it is in man! I am Kazakh and I have good friends both Russians and Ukrainians and Tatars)) And we don’t live in common because everything is in Kazakhstan)
  26. Konstantm
    Konstantm 23 July 2012 12: 08
    +1
    I also remember the Tsar-Father Alexander II, to the message about the conquest of Turkestan by General Skobelev M.D. said: "And why did he go there. An extra headache for the empire."
  27. romb
    romb 23 July 2012 12: 26
    +7
    Dear!
    Do not you think that in terms of the quality of materials and the "intelligence" of comments, a respected site begins to slide to the level of such resources as - rambler, feed and others ........ ????
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 12: 52
      +4
      DEAR-E-E-E-E !!!!!!

      What holiday is it today? that you are 150g. x 3 = accepted? What kind of BUZA ????

      The NESTY question SCANDALATE!

      Take away KOROCHI from the author and under the tribunal!
      1. romb
        romb 23 July 2012 12: 58
        +3
        I myself do not understand why this kind of "throw-up" is going on, and even in such an amount belay
    2. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 23 July 2012 13: 20
      0
      I said it a long time ago
    3. loc.bejenari
      loc.bejenari 23 July 2012 16: 33
      0
      Yes, bydlomass management technologies are constantly being tested here
      Particularly successful is a certain author Volodin, a lover of provocative chauvinist statues
      as a result, the local shkololo-gop electorate joyfully howls about great Russia and they don’t understand that they’re just being controlled and cooked for the next cannon fodder
      1. Russian-
        Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 54
        +1
        Quote: loc.bejenari
        cooked for another cannon fodder

        And what was the first? Is it not about elective passions? When thousands of Russians called to go to storm the Kremlin - a handful of crooks and traitors?
        And where are they now these leaders of yours - all sorts of anal? In **** they are!
  28. 8 company
    8 company 23 July 2012 12: 38
    +2
    The author, do not write with such poorly concealed contempt about other peoples, their history and prospects for the future. Learn to respect your neighbors.
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 13: 02
      0
      Unity is what makes Russia strong! And the quarrel with neighbors with whom the Germans were beaten, the Napoleonic guards (yes, do not be surprised), this weakens Russia!
  29. Floock
    Floock 23 July 2012 12: 55
    +8
    In Kazakhstan, they say: "When a black Chinese comes, the red-haired Russian will seem like a brother."
    And the author of the article is a fat Troll.
    Is Kazakhstan an artificial state? Jarred ... Kazakhs are a people (united clans, like Rusichs by the way) with an ancient culture and an adventure-rich history. To master and defend the territory occupied by Kazakhstan, with such a population is not an easy task.
    You can argue a lot about historical moments, interpret them this way or that, but you must always remember the old parable - it’s easy to break one twig, but you’ll break a broom. Especially looking at the current chaos in the world ...
    1. 8 company
      8 company 23 July 2012 13: 24
      -1
      Quote: Floock
      Is Kazakhstan an artificial state? Jarred ... Kazakhs are a people


      And the Uzbeks created a real empire under Timur, and one of them must have spoken contemptuously about the neighboring "artificial states".
  30. sapulid
    sapulid 23 July 2012 13: 26
    +6
    The article is not only a minus, but a zero. Without a bluff, call the peoples subhuman, not able and not worthy to have their own state! Famously enough !!! :) Something, I suppose, does not hold. Ah, in vain. Along the way, with one crinkle and one below the waist. Without respect.
  31. Miroslav
    Miroslav 23 July 2012 14: 09
    +4
    Only one thing is clear: if the Bolsheviks had not split the Russian Empire after the seventeenth year into national-territorial republican and autonomous divisions, these current Central Asian state formations would still be Russia. And the problems would not have been with them, not with us. As well as with all the so-called "federal territorial structure" in today's post-Soviet Russia - these national-administrative divisions are the small-town dragon's teeth and constant interethnic, interethnic and interreligious tensions. There is no need to look far for examples - the Caucasian "republics", as well as the Kazan - Ufa principality.
    1. Albaros
      Albaros 23 July 2012 14: 47
      +3
      To the very point. Indeed, if the territorial-administrative divisions in the country were divided not according to the national, but purely according to the territorial-administrative principle, no one would single out and stick out their national significance ..
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 21
      -4
      National-territorial entities allowed to save the country - the country collapsed BEFORE the Bolsheviks!
      1. Robinson
        Robinson 23 July 2012 16: 52
        +3
        The Russian Empire did not collapse - not only the Bolsheviks, but all sorts of Narodnaya Volya, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Mensheviks, Social Democrats and many other liberal and Marxist brethren have artificially collapsed for decades.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 40
          -1
          In sum, this is called - PEOPLE! The country collapsed because. that was terminally ill, that's all ...
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 44
        0
        You can immediately see that the brainless were ignorant - they would have otherwise known that the country fell apart after February 17th, when everyone began to grab sovereignty as much as they could - Ukraine and the Caucasus split off, almost in every volost their own power! The Bolsheviks were forced to sacrifice something in order to again sew the country, and, gaining strength, gradually strengthened ties ...
        They remembered the borders when they started perestroika - before that it had never occurred to anyone to divide into separate states ...
        1. Argonaut
          Argonaut 24 July 2012 18: 49
          -2
          So after all, who ruined the country?
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 23: 56
            +1
            Go up two posts above - I can repeat: Itself fell apart ...
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 20 November 2012 02: 05
      -1
      Wrong. For example, the territory of the former Kazakh Khanate was torn into governor generals, but despite such an administrative division, the Kazakhs in 1916 (even earlier than the Russians) made a bloody mess of the tsarist government, saturated with the Stolypin land robbery, stupidity of local representatives of the tsarist government, and arrogance Cossacks and an insulting decree on calling for rear services to the front. All of Kazakhstan burned in spite of administrative divisions.
  32. Concept1
    Concept1 23 July 2012 14: 18
    -2
    Yes, yes, all of you are great nations !!!!!!!! I wouldn’t like to see how all of you Chinese will be bent by cancer and where you will all break. But we all indulge in Russian raking. pour your blood with all your independent activity !!!!!
    And I do not want this !!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR ......... ALI with his independence, khans and all sorts of other garbage. Russia has everything and we don’t need anything from anyone. We would have to live comfortably in the science of building casmodromes, master Mars with the moon. So no, you all do not finish calmly live ... you will until you have raked !!!!! so it will be until the end, first the Horde, then the Crusaders, then the Swedes, the French, the Ottoman Empire, then the senile Hitler, Now Ameracassos and the Chinese in the future !!!!!!!!!!! so it will be until this ball is split in half!
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 14: 24
      0
      The horde was not reflected (note)) To the note that much of the listed merit of all peoples and Kazakhs, including! or did you think that the Russians alone would have all raked out?
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 23 July 2012 14: 42
        -2
        Yes, yes, we only speak Russian. Time will only judge us. Russia will fly faster than other countries of the former USSR and of another world and there will be new achievements of planetary significance. And then you will not be able to say that because you are all INDEPENDENT !!!!!!!!!!
        1. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 14: 45
          +3
          Well, Wang is direct)))) What other prophecy? Are there Kazakhs in the prophecy? Well, at least give a small role to the Kazakhs))
          1. Concept1
            Concept1 23 July 2012 15: 00
            0
            This is not a prophecy; it is an objective reality! If someone does not understand something, this does not mean that this cannot be!
            And to you personally from me: if you on this site express your point of view you are already a plus. This is not a dumb social. the network is a patriotic publication!
            1. Akishbekov
              Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 08
              -1
              And where do you draw the truth Oo Oracle? Throw me this (crazy) link About the child of the Internet (apparently a vacation to schools))
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 20 November 2012 02: 10
          0
          We speak Russian, because someone does not speak other languages. Asians, at least, know two languages. But in practice even more. We have a clear policy in the KZ, aimed at ensuring that every Kazakh speaks at least three languages. I speak English with an Englishman, with Russian in Russian, with German in German, with Tatar in Tatar, with Kazakh in Kazakh. And I do not think this is humiliating. But many northern neighbors perceive linguistic illiteracy as a sign of omnipotence, they say, if you do not speak any language, then you're cool ...
          The funny thing is that they write and speak their own language as semi-educated.
      2. tan0472
        tan0472 23 July 2012 16: 05
        -1
        "Horde" consisted of Cossacks. If not, the Russians would be like Tatars (a mixture of Asians and Caucasians).
    2. amph1cyon
      amph1cyon 23 July 2012 17: 11
      0
      and also to learn to write, otherwise to write grammatically, and we all want
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 20 November 2012 02: 16
      -1
      If you don’t ... with independence, then maybe it's time to return to your historical homeland? There you will appreciate and sip. Nefig you live with the khans, especially since the Chinese are about to attack. Go home and then the soul will calm down.
  33. Tom230
    Tom230 23 July 2012 14: 19
    +1
    All states on planet earth were created artificially by the rulers of these territories as a result of conquests or annexations. Article is nonsense.
  34. His
    His 23 July 2012 14: 27
    +2
    It is interesting to watch how the citizens of the camps bite, which of them turns out to be older and older. One feels the people need a war, they have sat up within their borders. After all, there would be one country there were no such comments. But while you are biting into your feudal estates, there is a real horde - Islamic fanaticism, and all of you will be struck by this evil, like a virus. And then roll the whole shaft to Russia. So it will be
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 14: 34
      +1
      The people never need war, war is the business of politicians (your intuition brings you our senses)) And your nightmare about world evil - Islamic fanaticism is just an exaggeration, rather the Chinese will fill the world))) And by the way, have you decided on Russia or the Russian Federation? And then in Russia there is not enough space)
      1. Albaros
        Albaros 23 July 2012 14: 57
        +1
        Why, then, do people never need war? Need if he is going to synchronize his life and freedom. Such wars are sometimes called national liberation. True, they are rare.
        1. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 01
          +1
          Another naive)) War is a tool of politics! AND never the war did not benefit the people! Remember, you’ll unleash a war yet)))
  35. Concept1
    Concept1 23 July 2012 14: 28
    -1
    If only my will would bring my people together and move somewhere far away!
    From this planet !!!!!!! And chew here Love a friend's friend.
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 15: 27
      -4
      Yes, do such a favor - do you think that someone will cry?
      All the same, you don’t know how to work, neither plow land, nor build, nor create anything material, only oppressive fingers, listing supposedly ancestors to lemurs, inclusive, but try to prove that the best friends of the Russian people (the very, the most, the most) .. .
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 23 July 2012 18: 09
        0
        Something I did not understand you and you did not enter something!
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 47
          +1
          Are you not Kazakh with us?
          1. Concept1
            Concept1 23 July 2012 20: 10
            -2
            I'm rss to the bone! Of very close friends, two Kazakhs
            (Adays) one Armenin is me so for others.
            1. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 20: 13
              +2
              And what difference does it make to us and does it make any difference to you?
  36. redcod
    redcod 23 July 2012 14: 56
    +2
    Andrei, what are you offending in KZ? They do not give work, they are oppressed on a national basis, they are not allowed to speak their native language, do they infringe on your civil rights? If you think that it is impossible to live in Kazakhstan, go to Russia. W unlike the Kazakhs, you have a historical homeland. I can only assure you that nobody is waiting for you there. And there you will be a Kazakh for your fellow tribesmen.
  37. Sars
    Sars 23 July 2012 15: 05
    +3
    My Russian ancestors moved to the Omsk province in the Stolypin reforms. My grandfather recalled that the lands were practically deserted.
    It's always funny for me to hear that Omsk was founded by Kazakhs! Why do nomads need cities? All industry was built by the hands of the "non-indigenous" population.
    At school, a survey: Russian parents worked at a chemical plant, thermal power station, etc., among Kazakhs in the police, regional committee, etc.
    Do you know what they call themselves now? "The Golden People".
    What kind of state would they have without Russians, Germans and other "non-indigenous" - a million yurts, with human shit scattered around.
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 13
      -2
      Do you even know where your ancestors are from, and many in Russia, even through 2 tribes, don’t know who they are, the main thing is that they are Russians (and is that so)! Sars, if the territory is sparsely populated, this does not mean that it is a draw))) Ermak also sailed in Siberia for his time and believed that the land was a draw))
      1. Eugene
        Eugene 23 July 2012 15: 18
        +1
        Tell me, how many knees do you know your ancestors? Over the years of death and birth, and name, middle name, at least one of the parents?
        1. Akishbekov
          Akishbekov 23 July 2012 15: 36
          -1
          I have a book of my pedigree! Shezhire-they call her) So there from the beginning of the clan to this day! By heart I don’t know everyone I'm sorry 10 thousand names I can’t remember)))
          1. Eugene
            Eugene 23 July 2012 16: 33
            0
            Interesting) And the earliest representative of the recorded to which era belongs? I, for example, "dug up" before 1650.
          2. Russian-
            Russian- 23 July 2012 18: 55
            0
            Quote: Akishbekov
            I have a book of my pedigree!

            Nifiga you - what kind of tribal.
          3. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 50
            +3
            Do you lead a genus from dinosaurs? Or before? It would be ridiculous ...
            1. Eugene
              Eugene 24 July 2012 00: 59
              0
              You are what?
              1. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 13: 00
                +1
                And this was not for your post - you can check with arrows ...
                And he was here some just repeated nonsense many times just got ...
    2. Argonaut
      Argonaut 24 July 2012 18: 59
      0
      So we are reaping the fruits of the Soviet nationality policy - where all fraternal peoples are equal, but it turns out that there are smoother ... Hence the "golden people".
  38. TAGIR
    TAGIR 23 July 2012 15: 49
    0
    Imagine in Antarctica, except for the penguins, there was also no one. Once the aliens arrive, they look at the planet Earth and say that there is no intelligent life, which means the planet is a draw ...
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 16: 05
      -2
      You exaggerate)) People with animals and Inoshniki compared))) I tell you about the facts and you about the aliens here are all such on the site? Or school holidays?
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 53
        +1
        But for aliens, it’s not a big difference actually - you don’t have to think too much about yourself ...
        There was such a story in some fantastic story - aliens captured aliens and placed in their zoo, which only people did not do to show their intelligence! Nothing helped until one of the people made a trap and caught and put in a cage the local analogue of the mouse - only then the aliens understood that people are intelligent creatures ...
  39. pups
    pups 23 July 2012 15: 51
    0
    An interesting provocative article. An excellent example of the thinking of the body processed by the means of fascist nationalist ideology. I noticed that with a drop in literacy, Russians are increasingly reminiscent of Americans.
    1. vlbelugin
      vlbelugin 23 July 2012 16: 59
      +10
      Not any fascism.
      In general, I am a Soviet officer. Mother is buried in Kustanai, father in Ukraine and I respect all nationalities.
      I’m just tired of reading home-grown historians who, thanks to the Soviet power, received the territory of Russia now called their original lands. But they were not. This is an artificial cutting of borders.
      The Soviet rulers took a map, a pencil and drew the borders.
      And now your historians with foam at the mouth prove that it is. No one is encroaching on your country. Live and multiply. Just have respect for those who gave you these states in a modern way.
      And this is a Russian soldier who reached Kushka. These are Russian people who gave you the alphabet. These are the Russians who built your industry, learned in their educational institutions.
      Look at Afghanistan. So you would be so if not for the Russians.
      And now, no offense, because young people are degrading compared to Soviet times.
      Therefore, I think so, the peoples of Central Asia should worship two "bays" - Lenin and Stalin for their wonderful past.
      But their future is unenviable without Russia.
      Only one nation, Russians, can walk in bast shoes, but they will give the last slice of bread to the poor.
      And this is not Great Russian chauvinism. Not. This is the truth that your rulers do not want to give you. Which palm off any nonsense in the form of history.
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 23 July 2012 18: 24
        -1
        vlbelugin I am also an internationalist but they are so fucked up for. They killed their education, distort history. In the 21st century, tribal tribes are very important !!!!!!!!!! ?????????, No, not knowledge, not technology, not what I do not know how and do not want. They will pay dearly for their stupidity !!!!
        1. romb
          romb 23 July 2012 18: 51
          0
          For starters, you will learn to write correctly, and then your fingers will bend.
          Do you even know how to do something yourself or do you all live in a common past?
          1. Concept1
            Concept1 23 July 2012 19: 07
            +4

            WHAT RUSSIANS CREATED:
            Pn Yablochkov and A.N. Lodygin (the world's first light bulb)
            A.S. Popov (inventor of Radio)
            V.K. Zvorykin (the world's first electron microscope, television and television broadcasting)
            A.F. Mozhaisky (inventor of the first aircraft in the world)
            I.I. Sikorsky (Great aircraft designer created the first helicopter in the world, the first bomber in the world)
            A.M. Ponyatov (the world's first video recorder)
            S.P.Korolev (the first ballistic missile in the world, a spacecraft, the first satellite of the Earth)
            A.M.Prokhorov and N.G. Bass (the world's first quantum generator - maser)
            S.V. Kovalevskaya (the first woman in the world is a professor)
            CM. Prokudin-Gorsky (the world's first color photo)
            A. A. Alekseev (the creator of the needle screen)
            F. Pirotsky (the world's first electric tram)
            F. A. Blinov (the world's first tracked tractor)
            V.A. Starevich (volume-animated film)
            EAT. Artamonov (invented the first bicycle in the world with pedals, steering wheel, turning wheel)
            O.V. Losev (the world's first amplifying and generating semiconductor device)
            V.P. Mutilin (the world's first construction combine)
            A.R. Vlasenko (the world's first grain harvesting machine)
            V.P. Demikhov (the first in the world to transplant the lungs, and the first to create a model of an artificial heart)
            A.D. Sakharov (the world's first hydrogen bomb)
            A.P. Vinogradov (created a new direction in science - isotope geochemistry)
            I.I. Crawlers (the world's first heat engine)
            G. E. Kotelnikov (first backpack parachute)
            I.V. Kurchatov (the world's first nuclear power plant)
            MO Dolivo - Dobrovolsky (invented a three-phase current system, built a three-phase transformer)
            V.P. Vologdin (the world's first high-voltage mercury rectifier with a liquid cathode, developed induction furnaces to use high-frequency currents in industry)
            C.O. Kostovich (created the world's first gasoline engine in 1879)
            V.P.Glushko (the world's first e / thermal rocket engine)
            V.V. Petrov (discovered the phenomenon of arc discharge)
            N. G. Slavyanov (arc electric welding)
            I. F. Aleksandrovsky (invented stereo camera)
            D.P. Grigorovich (the creator of the seaplane)
            VG Fedorov (the first automat in the world)
            AK Nartov (built the world's first lathe with a movable caliper)
            MVLomonosov (for the first time in science he formulated the principle of conservation of matter and motion, for the first time in the world he began to read a course in physical chemistry, first discovered the existence of the atmosphere on Venus)
            I.P.Kulibin (Mechanic, developed the project of the world's first wooden arch single-span bridge)
            VVPetrov (Physicist, developed the largest galvanic battery in the world; opened the electric arc)
            P.I.Prokopovich (for the first time in the world he invented a frame hive, in which he applied a shop with frames)
            N.I. Lobachevsky (Mathematician, creator of "non-Euclidean geometry")
            D.A. Zagryazhsky (invented the tracked course)
            B.O. Jacobi (invented electroplating and the world's first electric motor with direct rotation of the working shaft)
            PPAnosov (Metallurg, revealed the secret of making the ancient Bulat)
            D.I. Zhuravsky (for the first time he developed the theory of calculation of bridge trusses, currently used throughout the world)
            N.I.Pirogov (for the first time in the world he compiled the atlas “Topographical Anatomy”, which had no analogues, invented anesthesia, gypsum and much more)
            I.R. Hermann (for the first time in the world compiled a summary of uranium minerals)
            A.M.Butlerov (for the first time he formulated the main principles of the theory of the structure of organic compounds)
            I.M. Sechenov (creator of evolutionary and other schools of physiology, published his main work “Reflexes of the brain”)
            D.I. Mendeleev (discovered the periodic law of chemical elements, the creator of the table of the same name)
            M.А.Novinsky (Veterinary doctor, laid the foundations of experimental oncology)
            GG Ignatiev (for the first time in the world he developed a system of simultaneous telephony and wiring using a single cable)
            KS Dzhevetsky (built the world's first submarine with an electric motor)
            N.I. Kibalchich (for the first time in the world he developed a scheme of a rocket aircraft)
            NNBenardos (invented electric welding)
            VV Dokuchaev (laid the foundation for genetic soil science)
            V.I. Sreznevsky (Engineer, invented the first in the world aerial camera)
            A.G.Stoletov (Physicist, for the first time in the world created a photocell based on an external photoelectric effect)
            P.D. Kuzminsky (built the world's first radial-effect gas turbine)
            I.V. Boldyrev (The first flexible photosensitive non-flammable film, formed the basis for the creation of cinema)
            I.A. Timchenko (developed the world's first cinema camera.)
            SM Apostolov-Berdichevsky and MF Freudenberg (they created the first automatic telephone exchange in the world)
            ND Pilchikov (Physicist, for the first time in the world created and successfully demonstrated a wireless control system)
            V.А.Gassiev (Engineer, built the world's first photosetting machine)
            K.E. Tsiolkovsky (founder of astronautics)
            PN Lebedev (physicist, for the first time in science, experimentally proved the existence of light pressure on solids)
            IPPavlov (creator of the science of higher nervous activity)
            V.I. Vernadsky (naturalist, founder of many scientific schools)
            A.N.Skryabin (Composer, for the first time in the world used light effects in the symphonic poem “Prometheus”)
            N.Ye.Zhukovsky (creator of aerodynamics)
            S.V. Lebedev (first time he received an artificial rubber)
            G.A. Tikhov (Astronomer, for the first time in the world, established that the Earth, when observing it from space, should have a blue color. Later, as we know, this was confirmed when shooting our planet from space)
            ND Zelinsky (developed the world's first high-performance coal gas mask)
            N.P. Dubinin (geneticist, discovered the divisibility of the gene)
            M.A. Kapelyushnikov (invented turbodrill)
            E.K. Zavoisky (discovered electric paramagnetic resonance)
            N.I. Lunin (proved that there are vitamins in the body of living beings)
            N.P. Wagner (discovered insect pedogenesis)
            Svyatoslav N. Fedorov - (the first in the world conducted an operation to treat glaucoma)
            Ss Yudin (For the first time applied in the clinic blood transfusions of suddenly dead people)
            A.V. Shubnikov - (Predicted the existence and first created piezoelectric textures)
            L.V. Shubnikov (Shubnikov-de Haas effect (magnetic properties of superconductors)
            ON. Izgaryshev (discovered the phenomenon of passivity of metals in non-aqueous electrolytes)
            P.P. Lazarev (creator of the ion theory of excitation)
            P.A. Molchanov (meteorologist, created the world's first radiosonde)
            ON. Umov (physicist, equation of motion of energy, concept of energy flow, by the way, was the first to explain practically and without ether the errors of the theory of relativity)
            1. romb
              romb 23 July 2012 19: 16
              0
              Well, okay wink
              I asked about what you personally did.
              In addition, if you have not noticed, not only Russian surnames appear in the list of highly respected people.
              1. Concept1
                Concept1 23 July 2012 19: 27
                0
                We are not discussing personal achievements here! I do not separate myself from my people! And what did you do to ask me such a question !?
                1. romb
                  romb 23 July 2012 19: 33
                  +1
                  Are you a case of nationality not one of the "chosen by God"? You are too fond of "answering a question with a question" laughing
                  1. Concept1
                    Concept1 23 July 2012 19: 43
                    -1
                    Everything is clear the conversation is over.
                    1. romb
                      romb 23 July 2012 19: 54
                      -2
                      Totally agree with you!

                      You are one of those many subjects about whom Schopenhauer once correctly said "when a person has nothing to be proud of, he begins to be proud of his nationality."
            2. MHP
              MHP 23 July 2012 21: 07
              +1
              Concept1
              The fact that the Russian people have made a great and invaluable contribution to world science and culture cannot be argued with or even challenged by this, well, I don’t understand one thing, is this the case now, why do you cheer and grief patriot make confusion in people's minds, why are you chasing representatives of other nations in the pursuit of cheap authority and what do you think the people lazy people and lazy walkers that inhabit the former USSR!
              You are just HAM and SHAME!
              1. MHP
                MHP 23 July 2012 22: 16
                +2
                representatives of other nationalities who have made a great contribution to the science and culture of society

                Ukraine
                • Alekseev, Evgeny Rostislavovich
                • Andonyev, Sergei Mikhailovich
                • Anoprienko, Alexander Yakovlevich
                • Arbuzov, Moses Petrovich
                • Artemchuk, Galik Isakovich
                • Balabanov, Konstantin Vasilyevich
                • Burda, Mikhail Ivanovich
                • Bushuev, Sergey Dmitrievich
                • Voloshin, Vyacheslav Stepanovich
                • Garmash, Alexander Andreevich
                • Glushko, Vasily Vasilievich
                • Gnatyuk, Vladimir Mikhailovich
                • Gorzov, Ivan Petrovich
                • Grachev, Oleg Alekseevich
                • Gudivok, Petr Mikhailovich
                • Zhezhelenko, Igor Vladimirovich
                • Zaporozhan, Valery Nikolaevich

                Belarus
                • Bashmetov, Valery Stepanovich
                • Bibilo, Pyotr Nikolaevich
                • Voronezhtsev, Yuri Ivanovich
                • Danilchenko, Alexey Vasilievich
                • Zakrevsky, Arkady Dmitrievich
                • Narkevich-Iodko, Yakov Ottonovich
                • Petrulin, Kuzma Ivanovich
                • Sereda, Jan
                • Sunkuev, Boris Semenovich
                • Sharshunov, Vyacheslav Alekseevich

                Kazakhstan
                • Amerbaev, Vilzhan Mavlyutinovich
                • Asfendiarov, Sanzhar Dzhafarovich
                • Baykonurov, Omirkhan Aymagambetovich
                • Baitursynov, Akhmet
                • Batalov, Yuri Vasilievich
                • Bukeikhanov, Alikhan Nurmukhamedovich
                • Dara, Mark Yakovlevich
                • Darkanbaev, Temirbay Baybusynovich
                • Derbisali, Absattar Bagisbaevich
                • Dzholdasbekov, Umirbek Arislanovich
                • Evseev, Grigory Viktorovich
                • Zhakhaev, Ibrai
                • Zholdasbekov, Myrzatay Zholdasbekovich
                • Ibrai Altynsarin
                • Kiyansky, Victor Vladimirovich
                • Mynbayev, Karim
                • Persian, Konstantin Petrovich
                • Rempel, Lazar Izrailevich
                • Chokin, Alikhan Rizayevich
                • Chokin, Shafik Chokinovich
                • Shynybekov, Damir Abdukhalievich

                Armenia - famous in the field of inciting ethnic hatred

                neutral
                with
                araikus
                fidain
                smile
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 23 July 2012 23: 35
                  0
                  Dear MHP!
                  Smile is a very decent person, but quick-tempered like me))))))
                  And he is Russian to the bone)
                2. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 00: 09
                  0
                  A typical Ukrainian name is Moses Petrovich, no less Ukrainian name - Galik Isakovich - continue further? I felt funny, and you?
                  Kazakh - Rempel Lazar Moiseevich - to which zhuz belongs?
                  1. Akishbekov
                    Akishbekov 24 July 2012 08: 18
                    -3
                    Sarych you made me laugh) In Russia, too, half of the famous names are not Russian)) Remember at least the well-known Pushkin)))

                    The Russians themselves were interested in this question:
                    "Rachmaninov-Rakhman (Arab), Kutuzov-Gudus (mad Tursk), Karamzin-Gara Mirza (Azer), Mendeleev-Mendel (German), Lermontov-Lermond (French), Malikov-Myalik (angel) Khazanov-Hasanov, Sabitova, Guzeeva, Kurpatov, Bashmet, Kantemirovskaya division - Kantemir (North Caucasus) Kira Muratova - Murad (Tatars and North Caucasus)
                    Why, although all these people faithfully served Russia, not for fear but for conscience, loved Russia, today in Russia such hatred for foreigners is implanted? Maybe they will also be great people of Russia? "
                    1. Zhaman-Urus
                      Zhaman-Urus 24 July 2012 17: 56
                      +2
                      Lermontov is actually a Scotsman-Lermont. Khazanov, in my opinion, is more consonant with Khazin (I mean). I completely agree on Turkic surnames. Does anyone in Russia remember Khan Kasim, the "Kasimov Tatars" which I NEVER repeat for the gifted have NEVER betrayed Russia by fighting for it, even when the native Russians betrayed it. The last of them is Simeon Bekbulatovich to whom Ivan the Terrible left the kingdom. In short, I am RUSSIAN, I am proud of it, although I live in Kazakhstan, I understand that if the Russians of Russia start shouting "Russia for the Russians" this will be the end of a great civilization whose strength was in the fact that the Georgian prince Bagration considered himself a Russian officer, the Scotsman Lermont and arap Pushkin as Russian poets and Jewish academicians Russian scientists. And if you forget about it, then the Third Rome will fall, not from an external enemy, but from your own pride and stupidity.
                      1. serge
                        serge 25 July 2012 19: 37
                        0
                        Zhaman-Urus
                        arap Pushkin
                        --------------------
                        The comment is generally good, but listen, Pushkin was not an arap (= a synonym for "negro" at the time). According to contemporaries, he was white, and even his hair was straight. His maternal great-grandfather was "arap", but this did not affect Pushkin's appearance (or he was not Pushkin's grandfather, it happens).
                    2. serge
                      serge 25 July 2012 19: 28
                      +1
                      Akishbekov
                      Mendeleev -Mendel (German) Khazanov -Hasanov
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      Mendeleev’s parents are of purely Russian origin. His father’s grandfather was a priest and bore the surname Sokolov, and the surname “Mendeleev” in the form of a nickname, according to the customs of that time, was received by Mendeleev’s father in a theological school. Mendeleev’s mother came from an old but impoverished merchant family.
                      Khazanov is a purely Jewish surname. Hasanov, too. Kira Muratova - Kira Hebrew Name. Bad examples.
              2. Concept1
                Concept1 23 July 2012 23: 12
                0
                I’m the first one who didn’t move such a chigger for a look! And I can’t be silent. And personally, I didn’t offend anyone.
    2. Robinson
      Robinson 23 July 2012 17: 15
      +3
      But the literacy level of representatives of the Central Asian regions, after the collapse of the USSR, immediately soared to the inaccessible for the average Russian person height of spirit, culture and historical significance. This level of culture and literacy is especially noticeable in Moscow and other Russian cities.
  40. TAGIR
    TAGIR 23 July 2012 15: 52
    +1
    A more developed civilization always swallows barbarians, and when the level of development is leveled, the empire disintegrates.
  41. tan0472
    tan0472 23 July 2012 16: 15
    +1
    A few years ago, in the east of Kazakhstan, a grave was found (approximately 2000 years old).
    They began to wait for scientists. I arrived. I looked. He left. After that, the mullah said that it was not good to disturb the graves. They buried everything. Why? I explain. If you restore the appearance of the skull, then it will not coincide with the official history. After all, Kazakhs "always lived" here. And it doesn't matter that the Saki were an Aryan people. The main thing is not to add his face to Altyn Adam - here is your originality.
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 16: 20
      0
      good bike !!! Throw off the link)
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 23 July 2012 16: 37
        0
        No links. I don’t even remember what year it was. I just didn’t understand where the mullah was here, if the deceased died 600 years before Muhammad.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 56
          +1
          And there were no more smart people nearby - only a mullah ...
          There is no reason to disturb the dead ...
  42. redcod
    redcod 23 July 2012 16: 39
    +5
    The farther, the clearer the face of the average Russian is drawn, but it is still black-handed. All the land for Russians, all peoples are our smaller brothers. Congratulations to all, regression is gaining momentum. Or maybe there was no progress, only slogans about the equal rights of all peoples.
    In short, who are you? Come on, goodbye!
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 23 July 2012 16: 50
      +3
      I was brought up as a Soviet person. For me, all people were brothers. For all my years at school, my friend Serik was my best friend. But now "creeping" nationalism is spreading in Kazakhstan. Slowly but surely. Including with the help of "historians".
    2. Robinson
      Robinson 23 July 2012 16: 59
      0
      Not true. The Russian people are so great that they created, with the voluntary participation of other peoples and nationalities, a great state.
    3. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 19: 58
      +1
      Black Hundreds is certainly gaining strength, like. however, everywhere your troubles are a crisis, there's nothing to be done ...
      Let the people in the neighbors search for enemies better than solve pressing problems in the economy ...
    4. skullcap
      skullcap 25 July 2012 16: 01
      +1
      redcod 23 July 2012 16.39
      I read your last comments.
      I believe that every person not only has the right, but, respecting the ancestors, he simply must be proud of his people. But, being proud of its people and extolling its merits, one cannot blame others for this.
      There is no doubt that the national question is very delicate and delicate, it is difficult to discuss it, but to listen to the advice of some and prohibit this topic from being discussed means to hide your head in the sand. Since the problem exists and sooner or later will make itself felt, the more severely, the later we will deal with it and address it.
      But this must be done objectively and correctly. We will not discuss the second one - this is a separate issue.
      About objectivity.
      Your dissatisfaction with the position of the Russian people as an elder brother is unfair, because it is deserved by them historically and honestly. These other nations joined the Russian people. Voluntarily or were joined in the process of historical competition between states. Including Kazakhs joined voluntarily. Although probably without much joy. But their eastern neighbors, the Uighurs, believed that the territories considered now are their original lands and cleared these lands from historical competitors, including Kazakhs, adding pyramids from their heads in the steppe.
      Of course, you will dispute, but if the Kazakh leaders had not made a wise decision, then most likely the Kazakh men would have lost their heads, and the Kazakh women would have become wives of the Uyghurs. And the topic of the elder brother would not be raised by Kazakhs now.
      To be objective, we must admit that the Kazakhs did not have forces for an independent state then and they faced the problem of surviving, i.e. - to which elder brother to go.
      I will not look now, the leaders of which tribe in a similar situation reasoned: “The white king cuts off with rods for misconduct, and the Chinese emperor cuts off heads. So let’s go to the White Tsar. ”
      Kazakhs have historically acted wisely and do not be offended by their ancestors, who have preserved the prospects for the survival and development of their people. But in this situation, to be offended by the Russians for having historically and quite rightly found themselves in the position of an older brother, excuse me, is to show black ingratitude.
      You ask questions: “And if you take a sober look, what can Russia give Kazakhs?”, “Integration into the world community?”.
      Exactly. In the world community the peoples Asia, if you do not indulge in Manilovism, at present can only be integrated through close alliance with the Russian people. Everything else is from the evil one. Including pan-Turkism.
      Stop dreaming, return to sinful reality. Ask yourself whether the Pan-Turkic union is capable of being competitive on the world stage in modern times.
      The answer is unequivocal - NO. This association will have neither economic, scientific, technical, nor, most importantly, social potential.
      No matter how offensive you are to admit this, at the present stage, the peoples under consideration are not sufficiently developed in order to create stable state associations. Look at the events in these countries after the destruction of the Union: as a result of the social archaization of local peoples - a continuous series of bloody conflicts with a tendency for their further growth.
      Really the events in Tunisia, Libya, Syria have not opened your eyes to what awaits those peoples who will lead to the baits thrown from outside by various types of nationalism or religious fanaticism?
      Whether you like it or not, today only the Russian people and the state created by them are capable of guaranteeing stability in this region. Therefore, any actions aimed at weakening Russian influence in the region will inevitably lead to new blood flows. And pan-Turkism is being heated from the side with the main goal - to destroy the Russian state, and even there - walk to the fullest. Only it is necessary to clearly realize that not only the Russians, but all without exception will get to the full. The fewer local ones that remain, the easier it will be for transnational companies to subsequently solve the problems of developing local natural resources.
      I perfectly understand that every person wants to be the master of the mountain and belong not only to the great and ancient people, but to the MOST great and ancient, but one must be able to curb his feverish desires and live in the real world. In order to be able to live further and so that your children continue to live.
      Shl. Fantasy Alternative Story.
      What do you think would be if the neighbors of the Kazakhs were not arrogant Russians, but, for example, modest English. (By the way, I wrote something like that, but the topic requires it and I will repeat that according to the old Soviet passport, I am not Russian).
      I will not be very surprised if you write that then the English queen would take exclusively Kazakhs as husbands, and the English lords would replace purebred horses and yachts with riding camels and wagons.
      But for my part I will insist that in such a world, Kazakhs, like modern Indians, would live on reservations and milk there camels for visiting tourists.
      1. redcod
        redcod 24 June 2018 15: 18
        +1
        I did not want to raise the topic of a "fraternal" hug, but still I will give some facts. According to the 1913 census, the number of Cossacks (Kyrgyz-Kaisaks) was approximately 8 million people (approximate migrations, hiding). Second place among the Turkic peoples, after the Turks! According to the census of 1938 (a quarter of a century has passed!) - 2,4 million. One famine of 31-32 years, not counting the famine of 21-22 years, as well as the suppression of the 1916 uprising and the civil war, and as a result, flight abroad, claimed the lives of, according to underestimated data, 2-4 million people. How is the Russian helping hand better than the other?
  43. Isk1984
    Isk1984 23 July 2012 16: 45
    +1
    Yes, the fact of the matter is that everyone is ready to tear each other from abroad and history, and for me everyone should be hit on the head so that evil thoughts do not enter our heads, that there we have one common place with one culture, no matter what there is no need to compare the mentality, believe it is the same, I myself am from Orneburg and I don’t have anything to share, I have a lot of friends, he is Kazakh and Russian, and vice versa, now the story is so common that the unifying culture was Russian, but it didn’t destroy Kazakh, but enriched it, this is our special way clear to everyone, so it’s possible to say local nationalism, but it’s not without freaks, as a whole, there’s nothing to share, Kazakhstan and Russia must be added here, Belarus, Ukraine, ....
    1. Akishbekov
      Akishbekov 23 July 2012 17: 20
      +1
      I agree! We are all children of perestroika, and our parents instilled in us Soviet education (I’m not sure of the young commentators on this site) Every nation has nationalists and all kinds of dregs in society, but you cannot judge a people from them!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 20: 00
        +2
        So it’s clear that you are the children of perestroika and you don’t have Soviet education!
  44. pups
    pups 23 July 2012 17: 35
    +3
    A lot of controversy about anything. It’s good to read and discuss the story on the couch for coffee. In the comments to the same, this discussion is useless.
    1. read the title of the article
    2. read the last paragraph
    The article is provocative, aimed at inciting ethnic and interstate enmity.
    The author is either an idiot or a troll.

    For those who are going to build the future on the basis of the past the same as it was - forget it. Good or bad, but you have to learn to live and build relationships in a new way, with independent and independent states. The supporters of the great-power empire like it or dislike the citizens of these same states.

    and finally.
    a fool is looking for enemies, a smart one is looking for friends
    who is looking for enemies sooner or later will find them
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 23 July 2012 18: 02
      +1
      Those who argue - wound up and do not see anything!
      There was already recognition that: the article was written by the JOKER! He is so kidding! Well, there are such = they are fun at the funeral!
      In my head except - HA HA! neither of which has been preserved!

      So = BROTHERS OF KAZAKH and others. Who pecked at this JOK - YOU forgive them !!!!! What is brainless to take ????

      No one takes anything from anyone and doesn’t drive away from HOME! All !
      Forget and DO NOT go to THIS FORUM!
      Forum "humorists" who, the peoples quarrel? EASY and fun!
      Easy!

      Boring, apparently! Apparently there is NO relatives! And tired of living ourselves!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 20: 01
        +1
        These articles are not jokes at all and this is not funny ...
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 20: 01
      +1
      The author is a well-known troll ...
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 00: 11
        +1
        For this I received a third remark - but what about the author who provokes conflicts with his writings? Especially on ethnic grounds ...
        1. Generalissimus
          Generalissimus 24 July 2012 14: 42
          +2
          =)) You were not the only one to receive .. Afftor is under guard.
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 14: 45
            +1
            Even under what!
            It’s good that so far there’s not an eternal ban - with the explanation that, they say, many complain about you and are generally tired of it ... No.
  45. Ataturk
    Ataturk 23 July 2012 18: 01
    +5
    How to read these lines

    Obviously, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan are artificial states.


    I was more than enough to put a minus article. Provocative article. Before telling the author about the history of Asian identity, it is worth reading the history of these countries.

    Here's an example about the Kazakhs. Watch the movie. Based on real events. Kazakhs had peasants who gnawed enemies for their land. A very good film that describes the pain and suffering of the Kazakhs as well as the revival of their country!



    Something about this site raced Nazi articles.
    1. Eugene
      Eugene 23 July 2012 19: 22
      +1
      Still the Stone Age would be remembered ...
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 20: 03
      +5
      Well, you gave a stupid example! No cartoon on the topic?
      Do you propose to study the history of World War II by the rank-and-file Ryan and Pearl Tabor?
      1. Ataturk
        Ataturk 23 July 2012 22: 01
        0
        I love films that are BASED on real events. Read what I wrote and am writing. Real events .
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 23 July 2012 22: 06
          +1
          There is nothing real in this film, for your information ...
          1. Ataturk
            Ataturk 24 July 2012 01: 20
            -2
            Quote: Brother Sarich
            There is nothing real in this film, for your information ...

            Then tell me how the state of Kazakhstan was created. I’m just wondering, didn’t the Kazakhs fall from the moon, and who gave them such enormous land? Such territory and indeed many Asian countries survived by blood and built their identity!

            I understand that much of the film is embellished, but this is the foundation, with the help of the film, you can imagine how they built their country. I already googled and read what and how they built .... Their independence went to them through prolonged slavery, and then rebellion against the tyrants who stood above their heads as well as courage and courage.
            1. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 13: 02
              -1
              I can tell you, even here - only I’m already tired of fighting with the blues, and I have already been warned not about the case ...
              1. romb
                romb 24 July 2012 15: 04
                -1
                Tell us, and we will laugh.
                1. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 15: 12
                  -1
                  I'm used to giving lectures for money ...
                  1. romb
                    romb 24 July 2012 15: 29
                    0
                    Well, they would have said that no, only for money. lol

                    And what makes you so surprised at the participation of seventeen year olds in a military conflict?
                    But what about the Crusades, in which 10-12 year old boys took part - "the lambs of God on the way to Jerusalem", most of whom, according to the description of the Arabs, were pretty good warriors?
                    1. Brother Sarych
                      Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 15: 35
                      -1
                      I didn’t understand something - where did the jerks participate in military conflicts? The most interest at this age is to play war games - no brains, no families, no worries, and death seems impossible ...
                      1. romb
                        romb 24 July 2012 15: 46
                        0
                        Let's not discuss "higher matters" - intellectual abilities, love, friendship, and so on ....
                        The question was asked essentially: why do you consider it impossible for teenagers (young men) to participate in a particular battle?

                        Please, since you don’t have the appropriate knowledge on this issue, so at least stop raping Klava,
                      2. Brother Sarych
                        Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 18: 52
                        0
                        Once again I did not understand - where did I say that this is impossible in principle?
                        I just said that this is not a film, but rubbish in vegetable oil, nonsense of an inflamed imagination, that's all, and I’m not going to sort out all sorts of nonsense frame by frame!
                        It was about the fact that I can enlighten you about the history of a certain entity called Kazakhstan, but I will do it only for the money ...
                      3. romb
                        romb 24 July 2012 19: 32
                        -1
                        What can I say: I was expecting just such a delusional answer. Purely low-grade trolling, without any specifics and analysis of the situation. One empty tantrum ........

                        It’s better not to get into topics that are so complicated for you, you’ll seem smarter)))))))))).
                      4. Brother Sarych
                        Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 23: 53
                        +1
                        Along the way you rave! You ask yourself questions, imagine yourself answers to them, and then you also make some complaints - at least read the previous posts to understand the essence and sequence ...
                        I can hint - it was about the film, I laughed at it, I was told that it was at real events, I laughed at this statement again - you climbed into the bottle, figuratively speaking, and began to make incomprehensible claims! Question - Who is inadequate here?
                      5. romb
                        romb 25 July 2012 09: 59
                        -2
                        Let's go over the points:
                        !. There is nothing real in this film, for your information ...
                        In order to declare this, the applicant must have in his hands facts that would confirm that neither the battle nor ........... there was simply no!
                        2.I can tell, even here
                        On my "request" to tell you, you started to frankly play around and put a bunch of things, but just off topic :.
                        3.I'm used to giving lectures for money ...
                        It was about the fact that I can enlighten you about the history of a certain entity called Kazakhstan, but I will do it only for the money ..
                        .

                        And other, other nonsense!

                        So why not just answer for your words?

                        In short, you merged!
                      6. Brother Sarych
                        Brother Sarych 25 July 2012 12: 59
                        0
                        A typical Kazakh approach is to run into a rage, and after receiving a clear answer why no one wants to mess with idiots, fluff up the tail, such as what kind of a hero I am, I’m giving any one time ...
                        If you want to learn a lot for yourself about the history of Kazakhstan, it’s not a question, only you don’t like it, you don’t really like it, and I don’t want to fly away to the ban because of such a trifle, that's all ...
                        And about the fact that I usually consider lectures for money - the true truth, any work to educate the ignorant should be paid ...
                        If you paid attention to my other comments, you might have noticed that all sorts of nonsense from pseudo-history annoy me quite a lot, especially when they come up with this story in an attempt to prove their exclusivity ...
                        Sorry, but any nomadic people are of interest only in anthropological terms ...
                      7. romb
                        romb 25 July 2012 13: 51
                        -1
                        and getting a clear answer

                        Eh ....)))))))))
                        If you want to learn a lot about the history of Kazakhstan, it’s not a question, only you won’t like it,

                        Words words.....))))))))))
                    2. de_monSher
                      de_monSher 24 July 2012 15: 59
                      0
                      most of which, according to the description of the Arabs, were pretty good warriors?


                      Yah!? Have you remembered about the notorious "children's" crusade, started by the blessed child? And what are the comments of the Arabs about their military qualities, if these children, practically clean, were sold into slavery, to the same Arabs? Horror ... horror ... it was a purely business operation ... well ...
          2. viktorrymar
            viktorrymar 24 July 2012 13: 14
            0
            I know the Uzbeks do not like the Kazakhs, they always received pussels from them, you envy the big land - well, envy silently. Indulge in the ass slowly, and rejoice.
            1. matex
              matex 25 July 2012 08: 05
              0
              Quote: viktorrymar
              I know the Uzbeks do not like the Kazakhs, they always received pussels from them, you envy the big land - well, envy silently. Indulge in the ass slowly, and rejoice.

              Victor for the language and keyboard, follow painfully muddy things write, you can pick up for such komenty.
              1. viktorrymar
                viktorrymar 25 July 2012 09: 13
                -1
                Do not threaten me, I'm not afraid)
      2. viktorrymar
        viktorrymar 24 July 2012 13: 13
        0
        Are you Uzbek or who? What are you gnawing with the orespays of Kazakhs? Do you climb into the ass without soap?
    3. vlbelugin
      vlbelugin 23 July 2012 22: 54
      -5
      Something about this site raced Nazi articles
      Well, it started.
      It occurred to us or who prompted.
      As soon as the Russians begin to speak so immediately Nazism.
      What is Nazism manifested in?
      - the fact that the Russians in your territories built factories, factories, schools, kindergartens and so on and so forth
      - that the Russians raised your medicine and education
      - the fact that busting central Russia they all gave to the outskirts and still can’t move away.
      How many Russian families do you have?
      How many Russians have your women raped?
      How many Russians destroyed your houses?
      But didn’t you have tens of thousands of Russian people destroyed in the 90s?
      And does language turn to talk about Nazism?
      This European part of Russia knows what Nazism is. Ukraine and Belarus know. But you don’t even know the meaning of this word, but you throw yourself at the people that pulled you out of poverty and dirt. Taught even to work on a computer.
      And here, by the way, fascist scumbags appeared for a reason. This is a protective reaction of the body after what was done with Russian people in Central Asia, Transcaucasia and the North Caucasus.
      But the authorities and Russian people are opposed to this, fighting. Otherwise, your Shamshur would not be able to earn money for their children, and maybe for buys in Russia.
      And again, Russia feeds you. Why don’t you go to Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan to work. Yes, there are enough of their own.
      Only the ungrateful ...... can spit in the well from which they drink.
      1. Ataturk
        Ataturk 24 July 2012 01: 50
        +6
        Quote: vlbelugin
        As soon as the Russians begin to speak so immediately Nazism.


        but you can’t talk about peace? It is necessary to say that Asian countries are artificial and thereby spit in the graves and in memory of those who fought for the freedom and independence of these countries?

        Do you know how many I read books and articles about what happened in Russia and how? Somewhere they wrote about courage and heroism, and somewhere about barbarism.

        It is necessary to write about friendship and respect, as it was in the era of the USSR, negativity must be punished like racism and Nazism, then there will be prosperity. If you are not aware of relations in the USSR, ask your parents, maybe they will tell you what a well-educated and cultured society the USSR grew up.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        What is Nazism manifested in?
        - the fact that the Russians in your territories built factories, factories, schools, kindergartens and so on and so forth


        How old are you? To God it’s funny. What do you think, apart from Russian factories can’t build? Come to Baku and see how many factories have been built. As my father said, give me money, I will build a SATELLITE. And my people always had money. Like black gold and white so is real gold. So we ourselves could build. The question is, who made the most profit from these plants, so start with this, where the main capital went, I can tell you, and then you really will not like it.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        - that the Russians raised your medicine and education

        Do you know a country like Qatar, the UAE, Bahrain? Camel Rippers. In addition to the desert and camels, they did not know anything until the middle of the 20th century. And now their countries, or rather the citizens of their countries, are studying at Harvard, Oxford, and so on. The state pays for everything !!! Do you know what specialists they have now?
        May God give health to your parents, but my father had stomach cancer, From Moscow to Baku, not one doctor took it, 3 was suffering. My father was taken to Israel. They had surgery, tfu tfu is now healthy as a bull. They saved his life. So what do you say now?
        I’ll tell you another case, you know that military hospitals in Turkey, their doctors are some of the most POWERFUL in the world, they are geniuses in medicine. Did you know Do you know which doctors in Germany? You do not know? Ask me, I'll tell you. So there are enough doctors and minds for everyone, the main thing is to learn. If you have brains, you can study everywhere and become an excellent doctor.

        And is the chief doctor of Russia on eye problems not Georgians? So please don’t.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        - the fact that busting central Russia they all gave to the outskirts and still can’t move away.

        Do you know how much oil, cotton wool, and all the good from Azerbaijan went beyond? You do not know? If anything, write to me in PM I will send you the documents. I’ll tell you one case: Once Uzbek money was stolen from cotton wool, the Azerbaijani people had to cave in to comply with the norm. So do not.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        But didn’t you have tens of thousands of Russian people destroyed in the 90s?

        I am waiting for evidence and facts .... And I will show you the result of your attack in Azerbaijan in the 90s on January 19-20

        There are dozens of such rows.


        If we would have killed the Russians, then the Russians would not be in Azerbaijan now, but they will be. Since we do not consider them to be strangers.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        And does language turn to talk about Nazism?

        eggheads, these comrades with aerodynamic heads, are they from Azerbaijan?



        If you did not know who it is, then this is the organization SHULZ-88 St. Petersburg. And they are in all regions of Russia.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        This is a protective reaction of the body after what was done with Russian people in Central Asia, Transcaucasia and the North Caucasus.


        Are they the defenders? Yes, they are enemies of the Russian people. Are you telling fables to anyone? 9 year old girl became a reaction of the body?



        Do you know how many such stories? and they, in turn, too, seeing this begin to take revenge and what ultimately turns out? I just respect the site administration, otherwise I would upload a video to you. So do not tell fables here.


        Quote: vlbelugin
        to the people who pulled you out of poverty and dirt.


        You yourself are a beggar! When we had wealth, where were you? Who is this in the mud? I also found a clean one.

        Quote: vlbelugin
        And again, Russia feeds you.

        And you because Azerbaijan exports oil and gas through Russia, when we have where to redirect from and you earn millions in this, is this not money? When Azerbaijan buys weapons for billions is not money? Your plants and factories work as there is an order. Our products are sold, you eat and eat and you get vitamins, and we are the weapons from which people die. To return their lands, you have to kill someone or maybe die yourself ... The same conflict that yours created from the KREMLIN. So be silent. You tell your fables to someone who does not know.

        .Also me Aryan !!! He feeds us.

        1. kush62
          kush62 24 July 2012 19: 39
          +2
          Ataturk does not always agree with you, but now I applaud. Very many have delusions of grandeur. This is roughly how different parts of the body are in a person. Hands work, mouth eats, throws ass, etc. But all without each other are disabled.
        2. serge
          serge 25 July 2012 19: 48
          +1
          Ataturk
          Our products sell, you eat and eat, and you get vitamins
          --------------------------
          Die not get up. Azerbaijan’s benefactors, vegetables and fruits from Turkey and Iran are resold in our markets, local natural products are being squeezed out, and they are also being trafficked with drugs. Without Azerbaijanis, the markets will only be cleaner and fewer drugs, and the goods will not decrease, because it is not from Azerbaijan. Yes, and money is floating out of the country.
    4. marshes
      marshes 24 July 2012 15: 51
      +1

      There were Dzhungars and now only memories remain.
      1. matex
        matex 24 July 2012 17: 17
        0
        Quote: marshes
        There were Dzhungars and now only memories remain.

        Nevertheless, the marshes did not disappear anywhere; in Kalmyk their descendants are still alive. Well, no one doubts the victory over the jungars.
        1. marshes
          marshes 24 July 2012 17: 27
          +1
          Quote: matex
          Nevertheless, the marshes did not disappear anywhere; in Kalmyk their descendants are still alive. Well, no one doubts the victory over the jungars.

          Yes, I know about this and about the national composition of this army and about the Dzhungar ulus living in Mongolia, I’m talking about something else ...
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 24 July 2012 18: 48
        +1
        From such pictures I just bastard! Nothing that in the courtyard of the 21st century and such nonsense tales look simply ridiculous?
        1. marshes
          marshes 24 July 2012 18: 53
          +1
          Brother Sarych, and you do not happen to Dust? Or on a salary from the SNB?
          1. romb
            romb 24 July 2012 19: 39
            +1
            Dear Swamp!
            If Uzbekistan has such comrades as Brother Sarych then I really sympathize with our Uzbek brothers.
            1. matex
              matex 25 July 2012 08: 00
              +1
              Quote: romb
              Dear Bolot, If Uzbekistan has such comrades as Brother Sarych, then I really sympathize with our Uzbek brothers.

              Guys are good at swearing. It doesn’t turn out beautifully, do not give in to provocation. Do we share with you what has been common for centuries.
  46. mark021105
    mark021105 23 July 2012 18: 56
    +4
    A very heated discussion! This is exactly how they provoke us all. Those who want to divide us have very easily quarreled us all. Think about it. Many of those present, including myself, are nostalgic for the Great Power of the USSR. But how little effort is needed for everyone to "fight" here ...
    1. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 24 July 2012 10: 56
      +1
      If a person has an education, if he has been educated with dignity, if he is familiar with the concept of honor and conscience, then no one will succeed in inciting him or quarreling.
      Unfortunately, there are enough hypnotics now, weak and poorly educated, grabbed tops, imagining themselves to be the only right Russians, repeating racist and Nazi slogans as mantras, unable to distinguish national pride from nationalist swagger.
      This is a driven herd. However, it never disagrees with this.
      Well, VO is really infected with this bacillus. Soon the main part here will be information about what we all, Russians, are exceptional and wonderful, and the rest are chocks, parasites, dumb and terrible. Turns already from it.

      I do not want to have anything to do with these instances. What kind of Russians are they? A rootless tribe. Potkin Clackers.

      Russian people are strong, proud, smart, modest, fearless in battle, merciful after the battle. They do not need to prove the strength and greatness of their people by humiliating and insulting others. Only cowardly, weak, and notorious ones are doing this.
      1. Ataturk
        Ataturk 24 July 2012 11: 25
        +2
        Quote: Generalissimus

        If a person has an education, if he has been educated with dignity, if he is familiar with the concept of honor and conscience, then no one will succeed in inciting him or quarreling.


        Good girl, absolutely right !!!
  47. MHP
    MHP 23 July 2012 18: 57
    +2
    The Anglo-Saxons and Chinese have long laid eyes on the states of Kazakhstan and Central Asia! If it were not for the CSTO and Russia, it would be unknown how the situation would be now,
    The CSTO is rightfully a deterrent!
  48. Concept1
    Concept1 23 July 2012 18: 57
    -3
    As a result, Nazarbayev drove a long time ago what to do! And muddied the customs union
    a single currency in the lead Ukraine dragged on and all 90% of the USSR collected. And Putin will squeeze everyone else!
    I have long understood the Americans miscalculated when the Soviet Union collapsed. Because of its structure, the RSFSR kept itself in check in its development, but now there is no limit!
  49. wolverine7778
    wolverine7778 23 July 2012 19: 21
    +4
    We need to live in peace, no matter how we look, we are guests of each other in this world good
  50. Humpty
    Humpty 23 July 2012 19: 40
    +1
    Only the Bukhara and Kokand khanates had more or less distinct borders before entering Russia. True, they somehow didn’t have cards.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 23 July 2012 20: 16
      -1
      No, what are you. It simply cannot be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??????????????